how hello there. it's just on six. i'm michelle. this is dewbs & co. the show will get into

some of the things that have got you talking today. now, such a jeff it says that the model the nhs as it was when it was set up 70 years ago is not sustainable the future is he wrong .7 do you the future is he wrong? do you reckon it needs a big hole root and branch reform ? if sir, what and branch reform? if sir, what do you think that that should look like and the leading economic tank says it's time to tax more or call blimey if you're a pensioner we're about become one i can almost hear you groaning and you suffer right? what do you make of it? for example if your spouse dies and inherit their pension, they suggest that that should now be subject to inheritance tax? should it pay for your thoughts on that and of course, we've all had haven't we, that awful story , the tragic deaths of those little who fell through the leg in solihull. it's got a lot of people talking, of course. i'm sorry. suggestions now that perhaps public ads remember those that we used to see when we were children . is it time to we were children. is it time to bnng we were children. is it time to bring those back to warm children of the danger that are

out there and we seen the latest in the buckingham palace race row. well, now there's a statement from buckingham palace . apparently, the two parties have met. there's been an apology which has been accepted. so move on. do we is that the end? it. i want your thoughts on that. end? it. i want your thoughts on that . we'll have it all to come. that. we'll have it all to come. but first off, let's bring ourselves up to tonight's ourselves up to speed. tonight's latest headlines . michelle, latest headlines. michelle, thank you. i'm bethany. elsie to bnng thank you. i'm bethany. elsie to bring you up to date from the gb newsroom. eurostar says it's been to cancel its services to london on boxing day because the rmt strikes will close uk's high speed line. the announcement comes as more than 40,000 union members strike for a third time this week following an ongoing dispute over. this week following an ongoing dispute over . pay this week following an ongoing dispute over. pay and conditions. rmt leader mick lynch says little progress has been made during negotiations that he believes a compromise is still achievable. more

industrial action is planned for tomorrow tomorrow . the family of tomorrow tomorrow. the family of a woman who was by a partner has been has described her killer as definition of a monster. ross mccullum has been jailed for life , a minimum term of 23 years life, a minimum term of 23 years for murdering megan newborough at his parents home in coalville in leicestershire . he'd been in leicestershire. he'd been dating the 23 year old who was also his work for less than a month when he killed her in august last year. month when he killed her in august last year . outside the august last year. outside the court, her brother john , his court, her brotherjohn, his family is struggling to come to terms with what's happened . i terms with what's happened. i know how difficult it happens. my know how difficult it happens. my parents and sister to the court every listening to the web of lies spun by someone megan the only name whom she trusted someone clearly had no love for to . we are the ones now serving to. we are the ones now serving the life sentence no amount of time can bring megan back. have to carry on with our lives as best as we. but megan will never leave our thoughts thoughts . the leave our thoughts thoughts. the victims of suspected triple murder in northamptonshire been

named by police . angie assault named by police. angie assault and her two young children, jeeva , john v, sachi. they found jeeva, john v, sachi. they found with serious injuries an address in kettering yesterday morning. police have confirmed mother was an nhs nurse . a 52 year old man an nhs nurse. a 52 year old man is being questioned in connection with their deaths . connection with their deaths. three people are in a critical condition . one person has been condition. one person has been arrested after a suspected crowd crush at a music venue in south london has just gone missing . london has just gone missing. police were called to the brixton o2 academy last night following reports . a large following reports. a large number of people were trying force their way into a concert. the met police has launched an and is reviewing social and cctv footage . commander colin footage. commander colin wingrove from lambeth police spoke at the scene in relation to of the images that have been circulated on social media. i can confirm that an incident

involving one of our officers apparently seemed to push a member of the public is currently under review . our currently under review. our directorate of professional standards and another incident where a member of the public has seen two assaulting officer has led to one arrest of that member pubuc led to one arrest of that member public prince william's godmother has apologised for repeatedly a charity boss where she was from during a royal reception . buckingham palace reception. buckingham palace says lady susan met ngozi fulani me in person to discuss the incident. lady susan has pledged to deepen her awareness of the sensitivities involved . ms. sensitivities involved. ms. filani accepted the apology and says she appreciates that there was no malice intended . russia was no malice intended. russia launched one of its biggest attacks on ukraine since the start of the war. 76 missiles were fired during rush this morning with ukraine down, 60 of them. an attack on country's power grid also forced , power grid also forced, emergency blackouts nationwide

with the operator saying consumption dropped by more than 50. actor spacey has appeared before westminster magistrates court via video link charged with seven new sex offences . with seven new sex offences. prosecutors say they all relate the same alleged victim taking . the same alleged victim taking. the total number of charges against him to 12. the new charges three counts of indecent assault, three of sexual assault and of causing a person to engagein and of causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent . they allegedly without consent. they allegedly happened between 2001 and 2004, his trial is expected start in june at the old bailey. his trial is expected start in june at the old bailey . british june at the old bailey. british retailers recorded a drop in last month despite . online last month despite. online discounts and christmas shopping . the office for national statistics . the volume of sales statistics. the volume of sales went down 4% last month. it follows a rise 6.9% in october. the owner department stores did report an increase in sales with a longer period of black friday

office, helping and the world's largest freestanding cylindrical acquirer theme has burst in berlin . the 25 metre high tank berlin. the 25 metre high tank inside , the leisure complex, was inside, the leisure complex, was home to around 5000 exotic fish , a million litres of water along the fish spilled out onto nearby streets. and two people were injured by flying of glass. hundreds of hotel guests from within the complex had to be evacuated . you're up to on tv, evacuated. you're up to on tv, onune evacuated. you're up to on tv, online and deep plus radio. this is gb news. now get back to . michelle thanks for that, bethany. well, i'm with you right through 7:00 tonight. so alongside me, my panel tonight. so alongside me, my panel, we've got ocelot wallace, the editor of labour and courts, and alongside him, james woodhouse then is a visiting

professor at london southbank university. good evening , university. good evening, gentlemen. those pictures , by gentlemen. those pictures, by the way, in that news bulletin of that, a choir here. did you see that crashing in germany? goodness me . were very lucky, by goodness me. were very lucky, by the way. think it happened at the way. i think it happened at about know, 10 to 6 in about, i don't know, 10 to 6 in the morning whatever can the morning or whatever can imagine was a little bit imagine if that was a little bit later was a bit busier, later when it was a bit busier, it was a bath thinking about is there any you can get in touch with me someone all of with me tonight someone all of your thoughts you've already messaging and you do make me smile guys home i've got smile you guys home i've got to say. the is gp is say. anyway the email is gp is at gbnews.uk or you tweet me at gbnews.uk or you can tweet me at gbnews.uk or you can tweet me at news. pensions. one has at gb news. pensions. one has got a lot of you talking already . somebody i can't mention your name. lee. i will it, but i won't mention the swear that you can't read though. it's he, tom but he says whoever people are that bleeps even thinking about taxing pensions more as always lots conversation about my outfits i do like when you comment on my clothes what could

have like a whole fashion show me and you guys you can still me your outfits as well if you bought and take you matt says bought and i take you matt says it look like a giant chessboard today thank you very much nigel says michelle, you wearing a chequered flag at the end of the race? he says, well, it is friday, after all. yes, it is. victor says hello , michelle. victor says hello, michelle. after last night's ding on the show, is it safe to come out from behind my sofa . oh, i know from behind my sofa. oh, i know what you mean. did you watch that show last night? goodness me. i'm going to bring boxing gloves next time. i think that might be a quick to sort might be a quick way to sort things in it. anyway, give things out in it. anyway, give me thoughts. the topics me your thoughts. and the topics today pensions want talk today are pensions. want to talk about public safety videos? i want talk that whole race want talk about that whole race row, situation. there's row, that situation. there's been a meeting place and been a meeting taking place and an and accepted an apology given and accepted and the rest of it. so and all the rest of it. so i want your thoughts on all of that. then it that. but first off, then it checks. mean , i have to caveat checks. i mean, i have to caveat this. i am a lover of the nhs, a principle . certainly the people principle. certainly the people that work on the front , principle. certainly the people that work on the front, very hard people and i do hard working people and i do think it must be very

demoralising when people like me and all of us that we have these debates about the state of the nhs. you're working it nhs. if you're working there it must down a little bit. must get you down a little bit. so want to caveat all of so i just want to caveat all of this by saying this is not an attack on doctors, nurses, etc, it's the system that i want to critique today because we all know system is in know that that system is in quite of a mess and now quite a bit of a mess and now the former health secretary, javid basically needs javid says basically needs fundamental reform . we need to fundamental reform. we need to have an honest conversation about. what that look about. what that could look like. i'll start with you . root like. i'll start with you. root and branch sajid javid is basically saying the system set up 70 years ago, life's moved andifs up 70 years ago, life's moved and it's time for the nhs to look different. is it ? i think look different. is it? i think so. and i noticed that wes streeting said pretty much the same thing just a few back. we can't go on in the old way. for me it isn't just a question of. budgets and stuff that the money that the good money that's being sent after bad it is for me very much a question of low pay and overwork at the bottom and

outstanding bureaucracy and incompetence at the top. and i put it to you that the least we could do is have a possibly be abolition of health care , local abolition of health care, local ones. abolition of health care, local ones . they have brought us to ones. they have brought us to this pretty my encounters with them have not been pretty at all i think they are self—satisfied overpaid income petulant and generally they are not near the frontline of where the action needs to happen . so when we're needs to happen. so when we're talking about root and branch of abolishing health care trust because anything be better than their current management, because anything be better than their current management , the their current management, the system will do . i totally agree system will do. i totally agree with any of that , but no system with any of that, but no system is perfect and certainly think accountability can be improved in the nhs. but there are two bafic in the nhs. but there are two basic facts . in the nhs. but there are two basic facts. in in the nhs. but there are two basic facts . in 2010, when the basic facts. in 2010, when the last labour government left office satisfaction the nhs on the current model was at 70. the

highest on record satisfaction with the nhs. right now, the model is at 36. what has changed and what has changed? funding there are 133,000 vacancies is unmet in the nhs. there are 165,000 vacancies unmet in social care . the priority and social care. the priority and there is a for a discussion on reform. but the priority you say, what do you mean vision on the field? the is to fund and staff the nhs properly actually the latter more just spraying money around the latter is the 30,000 operations last year were cancelled because of because there weren't enough staff before any discussion about reform fixed the immediate because this model was working so long ago and now it's broke and one thing that's changed is money . well, i would actually money. well, i would actually push back on that and that the one that's changed, as you one thing that's changed, as you say, 70. so satisfaction or whatever. but if you go back to before the pandemic, was before the pandemic, it was about saying that that's about i'm not saying that that's perfect . is certainly not as

perfect. it is certainly not as low 36. now and me, the low as 36. now and for me, the thing that has that you're saying, the thing that's changed is thing that's is money. i say the thing that's changed that you've this changed is that you've had this ridiculous scenario of the nhs becoming an see as a national covid service. all anyone cared about, everything else was pushed the backburner and pushed to the backburner and we're it all stacking up we're seeing it all stacking up . so argue that it's not . so i would argue that it's not necessarily thing. necessarily funding thing. it was a forgetting everything else, basically focusing on thing that's brought so many problems to fore and what problems to the fore and what i'm is nhs . i'm interested is the nhs. you're saying more money but more to do what? keep as in its current form, do what we always. and when i worked the labour party in the nineties we had a phrase that we were brief for people to call out on the media with. and it's actually not just a phrase it's completely correct standards, not structures we can waste lot of time talking about abstract models and way and kind of re reorganising things like andrew lansley did for the tories decade ago. focus on standards, the start of accountability is making sure

standards enforced and the patients are listened . now that patients are listened. now that doesn't require routine reform. it requires making structures and processes that are there work. but at the drive for all of that is proper staffing . of that is proper staffing. james is shaking his head. it's all very i mean you know, i already said that nurses , junior already said that nurses, junior doctors , the frontline staff are doctors, the frontline staff are not paid properly . you've got not paid properly. you've got this shocking vacancy rates. absolutely. and therefore it's not just toying with structures , say abolish the health care which have a democratic deficit , which you seem to concede to . , which you seem to concede to. it also means the right people, the right amount , money and the right amount, money and getting rid of the wrong . and we getting rid of the wrong. and we also have to ask some serious questions about the doctors working from home doctors not doing a full day's week, all the wrong college of practitioners and surgeons and all the other royal institution we have to ask about matthew taylor and his confederation of health service

people you know are they really listening on the ground to the sort of problems that we are going with ambulances? all of those debates you call them that it's not a debate. you can't divorce the questions , structure divorce the questions, structure and reform from the bad lot facing nhs employees. all of those debates can be had but we spend comparing ourselves to france or germany we spend 25 to 40% less per capita in like germany. you can see a gp the next day, you can go on saturday and you can see a gp you don't have to make an appointment, you can turn up at 8 am. and within half an hour you'll a gp. this is. yeah, we can talk about structures we can talk about models, but fix the immediate fill to the millennial denial ability because once we have a state system, then how can you judge what is systemic , what is judge what is systemic, what is funding? are you going to fill vacancies, more money? there's a combination there's a combination there's a combination in there's more funding but also in the short

there's prospectively at recruitment from abroad or any which way . i recruitment from abroad or any which way. i think in government they will have a bazillion opfions they will have a bazillion options this but just that is the priority they and anything else everything else is a distraction so i there's a job there's a job and you you might say this is a job ad circulating doing the rounds over the last couple of days a director of experience . i'm not making this experience. i'm not making this up , i experience. i'm not making this up, i promise. this is the midlands partnership nhs foundation . it's a full time foundation. it's a full time job. they want an interpersonally talented strategic bridge builder . that's strategic bridge builder. that's you also? yeah i want it to be me, quite frankly . because the me, quite frankly. because the pecking order and 15 grand a year for this director of lived experience . so my problem with experience. so my problem with some of this everyone what is no my mom moment sister nhs nurses so don't disagree in terms of let's pay these people more i don't have a problem with that but do have this kind of problem of. the fundamental answer to

things just seems to be took more money at the because to me you just keep getting a book that's filled with holes and you just chucking more money into it it's just going to come the bottom but broken nhs so this has been done before when there was an nhs on its knees in the mid nineties and it was brought it would do a new hospitals enough doctors , nurses, improved enough doctors, nurses, improved care , shorter stays in hospital, care, shorter stays in hospital, quick access to gp's. all of that was achieved under the last labour government. so money on its own isn't sufficient . i its own isn't sufficient. i agree it has to be managed correctly . there has to be correctly. there has to be accountability . yes, there accountability. yes, there doesn't have to be a director necessarily of lived experience , but they do need to be doctors that do need to nurses. there are tens of thousands. these roles that are vacant, but it's not just the sort of woke jobs we've got to look out for, which you're quite right about michelle and the conservative right wants look out for it's the bureaucratic jobs the reorganises , the consultants so

reorganises, the consultants so the economic planners and all of the economic planners and all of the people who are making it their business to obscure what is going on, which is a deteriorating service , which is deteriorating service, which is well past itself on a fundamentally disagree on this point is a lot is blamed on bureaucrats and managers actually the problem in the nhs and the way we get the most value out of our clinicians is more effective management in some cases not all not in the of you know some of the some of the kind of culture change type jobs. but in some cases it means better and more managers actually because we're going in the school proper the same way to school proper and can have fabulous and you can have fabulous teachers manager but teachers but a bad manager but we've more managers than we've got more managers than we've got more managers than we've ever had in the nhs . every we've ever had in the nhs. every week there's another report about recruited about thousands more recruited and lives outside the north—east in the fund in terms of spend. when you look at comparisons with private sector of with the private sector of manages to the amount of money i mean you know hundreds mean it's you know it's hundreds of over £100 billion it's actually under manage when you look at it if you do a

comparison with the private sector and indeed on systems around the world, well we can agree it's under managed the question it's question is whether it's overstaffed management overstaffed in management and whether doing whether they're doing an effective telling you, effective job. i'm telling you, they're and think that's they're not. and think that's what popular experience is. what the popular experience is. if do talk about this , maybe if you do talk about this, maybe that's what the mismanagement poon that's what the mismanagement poor, poor management of a appointments and all the rest of it confusions with prescriptions . it's chaos down there. and the it reflects that by the way. yeah i mean i'd say it's a whole different conversation as well, isn't it? and it has got a woeful track record of deploying new i.t. projects . just as you new i.t. projects. just as you guys new i.t. projects. just as you guys was talking, i was just jotting some ideas. one of the first thing i would do is get a blank sheet of paper and say, what is the scope? the nhs? i would start on that basic principle. what should in scope for nhs, what should be out for the nhs, what should be out scope the nhs? it scope for the nhs? because it seems like pretty much any seems to me like pretty much any ailment things and i'll ailment cosmetic things and i'll get done on the nhs . so i'll get done on the nhs. so i'll stop at that and look at stop looking at that and look at why six full pay

why you have six months full pay on sickness so you can be off for six, but half a year on full pay- for six, but half a year on full pay. i'll be looking at things that be looking at charging that i'll be looking at charging for appointments as well. so many people waste the many people just waste the appointments saying many people just waste the appican'tents saying many people just waste the appican't hold saying many people just waste the appican't hold of. saying many people just waste the appican't hold of. and saying many people just waste the appican't hold of. and what'ing you can't hold of. and what about education if you about education as well? if you pay 9° about education as well? if you pay go to university and to pay to go to university and to become a nurse or whatever, what about like about doing some things like writing debt if writing off the student debt if they at the nhs period of they stay at the nhs a period of time? i don't know. that's just my of packet ideas. you my back of a packet ideas. you tell me yours. let's take a quick break i come back off quick break when i come back off some of your reactions to that story and also pension is our actual . i know that some of actual only. i know that some of you be shouting at your you will be shouting at your screen on this. do you screen on this. what do you reckon, for example, if your spouse passes away and then obviously you become entitled to their that pensions their pension so that pensions should subject to inheritance their pension so that pensions shotdo subject to inheritance their pension so that pensions shotdo youubject to inheritance their pension so that pensions shotdo you tell ct to inheritance their pension so that pensions shotdo you tell me) inheritance their pension so that pensions shotdo you tell me youraritance tax, do you tell me your thoughts and i'll see you in a couple of minutes .

i hello there. welcome back to dewbs& co with me michelle dewberry right through until 7:00 this evening alongside me as well as the editor of labour cuts and a former adviser to the blair government and james is a visiting professor at london southbank university . hey, southbank university. hey, welcome back, everybody does witness it. hello, michelle, joe and i, autism watch tv news every day , especially your show every day, especially your show and. you want to say you think we do a brilliant. thank you very much, joe. we appreciate rebecca says michelle, you say you make you smile. i can't make you make you smile. i can't make you smile because of my emails have ever read i would love have ever read out. i would love to why . i have ever read out. i would love to why. i don't have ever read out. i would love to why . i don't know. to know why. i don't know. rebecca, i've just found that one nurse that one. i one nurse i've read that one. i also that's one neil says also least that's one neil says sajid javid for once is right the nhs . 70 years ago was a good the nhs. 70 years ago was a good concept but it was never going to keep up with evolution, brian says there's nothing wrong with the original of the nhs, he says . the fact that people are overusing it and abusing it that

he says, is the problem in all of this. richard says when matron had the reigns of hospitals , i was a kid. the nhs hospitals, i was a kid. the nhs ran like a swiss watch. swiss watch for a fraction of the cost .then watch for a fraction of the cost . then he says government decided to employ managers on six figure salaries and he puts the downfall down to that. let me know your thoughts, margaret . the way says james, you hit all on the head. if you get rid of the rest of the managers, they're than and they're worse than money and they're worse than money and they are you an nhs they too much. are you an nhs manager by the way? just watching this screaming at the telly you get rid of guys. telly you can't get rid of guys. if in touch. tell me, if so, get in touch. tell me, please, let's on about please, let's on to talk about pensions, shall we? one of the country's leading economic tank says should be says that pensions should be subject inheritance tax . the subject to inheritance tax. the institute for fiscal studies says that the remainder of a pension could be put into your state once you die , basically, state once you die, basically, meaning that they will get to take yet another tranche of . tax take yet another tranche of. tax offsets . what do you think of offsets. what do you think of this one? i think understand your viewers worry and anger. no

one wants more to pay more tax, but look at the situation we're in we've got a huge pile debt. we've just been talking about an nhs that is woefully underfunded . can't see a gp. there's not police on the streets. all of that costs money and the money is going to come from somewhere. the only places it will come from either schemes like from are either schemes like this, in fairness would this, which in fairness would equalise the treatment of pension the rest of an pension pots with the rest of an estate or higher income tax, whichever one pays. and i think it's going to come from lots of different places. i think there's merit in the scheme would increase revenue by about a quarter of the current yield of income of inheritance tax it should be considered i don't profess to have a full impact analysis of it but it's the sort of thing that should be considered because. more money has from different has to be raised from different sources there's no getting sources and there's no getting around that. if we to have around that. if we want to have enough police, doctors, nurses teachers, , public teachers, you know, public services, james well, i'm sorry

that you don't have a full impact analysis . i guess all impact analysis. i guess all everybody comes equipped one of those. but i think the most striking thing for me this is who will what is the ifrs can name that chief of the institute for fiscal studies michel no i cannot. for fiscal studies michel no i cannot . but i for fiscal studies michel no i cannot. but i can tell you what the acronym stands, which is, as you said, institute of fiscal studies and apparently a very well respected think tank. well, you know, that's about as convincing as saying i'm well respected . you know, just as respected. you know, just as a chief exec now, because i've just told me at my age. but i think that st so whether it's pauljohnson think that st so whether it's paul johnson and you know, the question ask is who question we've got to ask is who are all these people you know, you've the imf, the obama you've got the imf, the obama and mercy of boe , you've and the mercy of the boe, you've got right , you've got the got the pr right, you've got the fca right , like got the pr right, you've got the fca right, like think tanks, right. so when they're things, things that government regulators and government quangos and independent review institutions like the institute

for fiscal studies. and the reason you can't name paul johnson , you never got to vote johnson, you never got to vote for him . he's saying at by for him. he's saying at by raising the princely sum, i believe from what i've read that £1.9 billion, which is of a few saudi homes in, central london that he is saying and you intimating arthur that can solve the you know the big financial problems that we will look you know the point is elected are supposed to make these decisions of course the ifrs has right to express its opinion but for us to go to the altar of all of these three lettered acronym and believe that that is the way to run economic, because the scots are recommending an insert from someone that's paid to do what are doing, which is come with are doing, which is come up with economic principles strategy economic principles and strategy that government's that is on the government's a review that choose whether review that and choose whether yes paid to do they yes but one step paid to do they are they're longer in are doing they're no longer in dependent they are just a sort of cipher a media force for pressing the government to do the technocrat thing. it's the right technocrat thing. it's

undemocratic we are not able to re—elect these . we cannot vote re—elect these. we cannot vote for them . may have far too much for them. may have far too much influence . think tanks, think influence. think tanks, think advisers , advise politicians , advisers, advise politicians, decide our democratically politicians are the only ones make that choice. it's a valid proposal and context of a situation where we are billions and billions and billions. south where we need to be. it's not the full. but if there are ten ideas like this kind of go across different government spending which raised 20,000,000,030 billion spending which raised 20,000,000,03o billion suddenly we in the realms of a we kind of see a route out of the mire . no, see a route out of the mire. no, because this is what you're saying is. we need more jobs for the economists who all sit on the economists who all sit on the same boards. if you look actually at the board of the institute for fiscal studies, which i did today, you'll find the same old people from the same old acronyms that i've already mentioned. it's a nice boys club. there's few women boys club. there's a few women there and they are a complete

substitute for a chancellor who knows to how run the economy of our tank. our technocratic think tank. but in same that liz brought in the same way that liz brought in the same way that liz brought in lots of people from the institute of economic affairs, we listen to what the economic was saying and then crushed the economy . this year economic face economy. this year economic face is a right to make its case. i don't agree with it. it's perfect to make its case if a politician then decides to act on it and take us off the edge of a cliff. problematic if a government it's conservative or labour listens to the ifs and takes it off a cliff. actually the ifs should get some blowback, but it's the politicians who are at fault and. they're with ones who and. they're with the ones who need accountable. what are need to be accountable. what are you all these kind you saying? it's all these kind of and all think of quangos and all these think tanks the rest of it. tanks and all the rest of it. are more on james? is camp a are you more on james? is camp a little suspicious? not happy little bit suspicious? not happy with know with our. oh, let me know i personally when it comes to inheritance tax by the way i don't agree with that as a at all. when look at all. when you look at inheritance why , should you inheritance tax why, should you be whoever is be double tax? so whoever is that's created pension pot, that's created this pension pot, you will paid tax you know they will have paid tax on earnings their incomes. on their earnings their incomes.

i know if someone's bought i don't know if someone's bought some assets that probably some assets that i'll probably be with pretext money so be bought with pretext money so got this your got you're buying this out your net then be net so why should then be subject to even more tax when you die so personally never mind extending tax to yet another component . i extending tax to yet another component. i do extending tax to yet another component . i do away with it all component. i do away with it all together so i would i have say many of you guys at home and not into concept of having by the tax . yeah john you're a sensible tax. yeah john you're a sensible you agree with me you don't agree with inheritance tax ehhen agree with inheritance tax either. graham says the suggestion that your partner should pay a tax after your death is obscene. we've paid tax all our lives, graham. say you're on the same camp as may. why should we pay more? eric says we go hitting pensioners yet again. one of these days we'll go on strike and refuse to die, says alison, says, my mum always said there was two guarantees in life tax death clearly , she says, there are clearly, she says, there are three tax, death, tax they go around and around and around . go

around and around and around. go keep your thoughts coming in. what do you make to that? i'm going to take a quick break. when i come back, we're all familiar by now aren't way of the tragic deaths of those little boys in the lekki in little boys over in the lekki in solihull. it's got people that perhaps we need a return to the pubuc perhaps we need a return to the public safety videos from yesteryear to remember those . yesteryear to remember those. they were intended, of course, to warn people, young people in particularly about potential dangers . is particularly about potential dangers. is it time to return to them ? give me your thoughts. them? give me your thoughts. i'll see you .

in two. hello there. welcome back to . hello there. welcome back to. dewbs& co with me michelle dewberry through until 7:00 this evening as is the editor of labour and code and a former to the blair government and. james wood howson is visiting professor at london's southbank university . you guys are sending university. you guys are sending in your messages on your droves.

the first topic i covered was the . says following the nhs. fred says the following why does nobody ever mention the pfi initiative that has proved costly, initiated by labour? well, that's a very good . i well, that's a very good. i wasn't going to go back to the nhs, but very briefly. well, john wants that question . pfi john wants that question. pfi initiatives were responsible for the rebuilding of our hospital infrastructure. we probably need to do a lot more, but all those new hospitals financed partially through pfi, played a big role in that and i don't think anyone on the labour side would make any apology for rebuilding hospitals, refurbishing wards and a lot more than was of, you know, big promises from boris johnson. about 14 hospitals actually labour built and refurbished . did you do it under refurbished. did you do it under the right structure? i think fred's asking . i think it the fred's asking. i think it the chancellor at the time, gordon brown. those choices you could argue we could all that it could have been you could argue actually that it should have

been funded entirely through government spending. well that's just the point, because what they was, they outsourced it they did was, they outsourced it as like policy and practise in general to a lot people construct companies, trusts , construct companies, trusts, nearly everybody else. and the result that these hospitals are saddled with for years and years to the structures that you referred to, michel , are exactly referred to, michel, are exactly the point. you are avoiding. there you go. they go . we're not there you go. they go. we're not going to get too deep into that. but fred said, why didn't anyone raise it? people bring this topic often. actually, i thought topic often. actually, i thought to myself, know what, fred, to myself, you know what, fred, just friend , raise just for you, my friend, raise it. consider it raised. tell me what the answer for now, what you to the answer for now, we're move we're we're going to move on. we're all familiar, though , way with all familiar, though, way with the terrible situation. those deaths the fallen boys who deaths of the fallen boys who fell through leg and somehow got it makes me go goose pimples place. i was just talking and thinking got a lot of thinking about it's got a lot of people of course it's so dangerous isn't it, to be on like that? and many people are saying that back in the day about it, if you remember some

of them there was those that were shocking actually were quite shocking actually watching a kid and they watching them as a kid and they were you about were all about warning you about things like falling into or getting electrocuted or whatever we're playing on as speak actually about the electricity pylons . i'm massively distracted pylons. i'm massively distracted by looking at the start of some of those mullets on screen. i've got honest. but james got to be honest. but james woodhouse, what do you think is time for a return to kind of pubuc time for a return to kind of public safety videos aimed children ? i don't think so. children? i don't think so. i mean, you know , go right ahead mean, you know, go right ahead and spend 20 million if you must. but the question is , all must. but the question is, all children watching this stuff , do children watching this stuff, do they take it in? do they believe or do we what we rather than needis or do we what we rather than need is a map of every pond , the need is a map of every pond, the country and some proper signage near those ponds won't . people near those ponds won't. people about the dangers that happen with icing over christmas that signage in this country very very poor whether it's safety or directional. well people read signs. i've lost count. i go to ponds with my kid and everyone

feeds the dogs and. there are about ten signs that say not feed the dog. well, it talks is a little different from a drowning sign. yeah, i know. a little different from a drowning sign. yeah, i know . the drowning sign. yeah, i know. the thing is that another video show is, you know, a bandaid solution for a deeper problem . the other for a deeper problem. the other thing that needs to be done on top of signs it's not the only thing is to schools about it and to get to the kids about it and you know really to them why too much safety isn't great idea but on this occasion it's very wise and people have died the shocking incident is it's really shocking, very upsetting for us. as michelle, i can remember the green cross code man. stop, look and listen he says, but these days that advert would be, say, walk straight out music. and he is nice and loud it would all be very different anyway. so what do you do? remember those videos 7 do you do? remember those videos ? i do remember them. i grew up in the seventies. remember actually a very, very high kind of for the kids in of injury count for the kids in those videos. i think it be a great idea. updated though. they have to be striking like they i

mean, in the seventies, it mean, back in the seventies, it wasn't at in the wasn't much to look at in the eighties as well. much eighties as well. it wasn't much to on tv so you watched it to watch on tv so you watched it whatever out but there's whatever served out but there's in social and a world in the world social and a world of online there's to have that go viral there's ways there's great can make great creative that can make this striking and drive sharing and engagement amongst kids and to be honest if anything it helps avert what happened even if it's 5,000,010 million quid on a campaign do it. yeah i'm showing my now i am having flashbacks to being at school assembly and. they used to wheel this telly in, in like this, in this telly in, in like this, in this wooden cabinet , two wheeler this wooden cabinet, two wheeler in and then used to open the doors and we used to have to watch these things. some people are the flip side of the argument would is it the argument would be why is it the government's job to parent the children ? that's what some children? that's what some people why is it the people will say. why is it the job of the government to warn children of part the job children of dangers part the job of the government is to make sure everyone is to look at where is to make sure people have the information they need

and create an environment where you understand you know, the basics of living in in in society . some yeah most parents society. some yeah most parents will kind of tell their kids off for doing things they shouldn't do, but sometimes they don't and actually a campaign which will cost a per capita like a few pennies per person helps avert this. if it's sends a message that striking and resident residents enough for young people to engage with them. great because you know in the seventies and the early eighties i just get the living hell out of me. some of us remember it to this. that's worth it. then in a few pennies to try and get money for a you know it's all a matter of principle but i think the people who've been saying to you that parental is important, you know, that's absolutely right. in a fathers and mothers have a to bring up kids to take risks to bring up kids to take risks to greater than these but not to kill over the middle of a freezing pond and die in that

corner will be the government's responsibility and you know the i think right i that you know is it going to be tick tock is it going to be social media? is it to be the bbc ? you know, these to be the bbc? you know, these are questions that don't really invite the kind of sensible and cultural campaign in schools in families and elsewhere around poems where, you know, we avoid these very unnecessary and hurtful deaths . peter as emails hurtful deaths. peter as emails and saying they all be taught in schools , you could take the time schools, you could take the time that you teaching all of this kind of a boy can a girl and all this kind of you could that tone peter says and use that time to the kids about safety that's an idea that peter i got to be honest speaking of signs by the way you've planted a seed in my head now i remember the signs at swimming pools that all swimming pools that was all about petting none of

about no heavy petting none of those up in a public swimming pool bringing them back. i yeah i don't know it raises the whole thing. know. thing. well i don't know. i don't remember what don't know. i just remember what went what went wrong went on, what went wrong what did what on earth was did it mean? what on earth was whole folk doing in the public swimming that weren't it someone saying you paying. saying no. have you paying. i dread anyway, i can dread to think. anyway, i can say. break. we come say. quick break. when we come back, to you about back, want to talk to you about the race himself laughs the royal race himself laughs sorry about the swimming pools anyway you . know the anyway and yeah you. know the race out by now anyway. yeah there's. been meeting now there's. been a meeting now between parties and between the two parties and apologies being it's apologies are being issued it's been apparently at been accepted apparently is at the end of it's over discussing in 2 minutes .

hello there welcome back to dewbs& co me michelle tube we're keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside me that's a lot well is the editor of labour and a former adviser to the black government and also james

woodhouse is visiting professor at london south point university pondenng at london south point university pondering heavy petting signs and swimming pools. james never of them. so it might just be whole thing or an urban thing. i don't think so. phil says. well, michelle that was obvious. they didn't wants in the swimming pools. they didn't the pools. they didn't want the water be polluted. i say, if i can just imagine how much weight there was in swimming pools, i suspect that they would have polluted a long time before any heavy petting occurred. anyway, let's shall we talk let's move on shall we talk about. let's move on shall we talk about . stop it, james. james is about. stop it, james. james is making me laugh. right? so let's move on and be sensible. buckingham says the lady it's accused the senior aide to the late queen of repeatedly questioning her about her background has received a personal apology and goes full on it. of course, we know the start where you prince william scored mum susan hosie . scored mum susan hosie. apparently there was an apology now accepts that there was no malice intended by the comments and basically wants to move . is and basically wants to move. is that right? says tom, to move

on? i think it's always well ends well. the issue in the first instance wasn't ask ing about ngozi fulani background . about ngozi fulani background. that's a legitimate question. it's not taking the answer that she got value. yeah kind of pressing and pressing and. pressing and equally that's not as this statement shows and necessarily a function of deep it's just clumsiness maybe old fashioned attitudes . and this is fashioned attitudes. and this is the right place for that that episode to land both women have spoken it's clear despite some of the abuse got that she there's nothing there that refutes her account it and for lady hussey there's there that says that she had any malicious intent and it's a really good so it's a really good resolution to a bit of an unfortunate and i'm fractious event but why did it to get to this then if someone had asked this the palace do why not just explain that actually i

think the questioning is a little bit inappropriate you have that conversation there, lady hussey. oh, god, i'm so sorry. didn't mean like that. sorry. i didn't mean like that. you you do choose you shake hands, you do choose drink, move on. i think drink, you move on. i think that's probably that's that's that's probably right. equally , if you're right. but equally, if you're meeting mean, don't know meeting i mean, i don't know ngozi fulani background particularly if meeting particularly if you're meeting someone from the royal court, someone from the royal court, someone who's been the queen's senior lady in waiting it can be quite an intimidating experience . and when someone comes up to you lift your name they look lift your badge and presses you actually you're not reaction is just to answer and to push back and to not have the row not to say no i don't. that's appropriate. and you feel afterwards and i think lots of your views must have been will would with this aspect of it when you're speaking to someone really important already and you don't necessarily give a great account of yourself. you feel afterwards a bit a bit kind of low and you want to kind of correct things. think she correct things. and i think she was that's what she did was know that's what she did when she put it out on on social

yeah said really what yeah i have said it really what you're saying because if you felt low and you felt uncomfortable just uncomfortable why won't just contact organisers and contact the event organisers and discuss why go the discuss with them? why go to the broader that's the bit broader public. that's the bit i don't get james, why do you let me you in? well, there's me bring you in? well, there's a moment in the tailor, soldier, spy ' moment in the tailor, soldier, spy , alec guinness. he says spy, alec guinness. he says coincidence is always and i think there's a lot in that you know i didn't want to make any unseemly charges . it's quite unseemly charges. it's quite a press feed that was pulled off here where you have a tape recording of irrefutable on saturday. i have a transcript a transcript or wherever that came from , although supposedly a from, although supposedly a reform of all in a lady in waiting . i just the moment when waiting. i just the moment when harry and meghan were conducting their assault the royal family and on all a republican and i want the whole law abolish it take something for me to get sympathetic towards a lady in waiting with the specs of

conspiracies. i'm lost in this point before you make your clever going and he says it's but the thing is you know the most striking feature of this whole episode is that the royal household would say that they will continue to focus on inclusion and diverse society after this whole episode . but after this whole episode. but you know, what a travesty for the royal to rally the nation those to woke bankrupt old fashioned democratic party born gnomes when they need to rally the nation if anything to work towards what are we going to do about our future? what are we going to do about the nhs? what kind of britain? do we want in the future. and that is the thing that they to avoid by this bonng thing that they to avoid by this boring chit chat about inclusion and diversity. i'm glad the two have made it up, but i can't you on face value the claims made by ngozi fulani even a name if you do the research is fairly worth

research . there's two things research. there's two things i want when you're dealing with something stable and prestigious and regal as the royal as the royal established, as the royal court sending a letter, what do you think is to happen? it's like if you send a letter to your local trust, nothing happens, let alone you send it to royal royal family. so i to the royal royal family. so i think she's completely justified in putting out on in putting something out on social, including something it was a completely orchestrated oprah winfrey full on. it's 24 seven. come on. the idea to reform the royalty the idea of global conspiracy against the royal families. i just think that's just for the birds. she put some stuff out. netflix already had already scheduled when this that stuff was coming out . i when this that stuff was coming out. i know when this that stuff was coming out . i know from the statement out. i know from the statement there's no suggestion at all the royal from lady hussey that this was somehow entrapment or a setup. now just one more point

on her name she was born had lots of people of caribbean make the choice that actually they don't want that name because it was their slave owners name in the same way that cassius clay changes them to muhammad on all those make different choices but i think absolutely fair and right respect that choice. yeah but no one's not respecting that choice. but at the end of the day if you choose to change your name into a name that sounds perhaps african you choose to go to an event dressed in a way where you're justifiably celebrating your heritage. so dressed, you know, in your beautiful traditional garm you've got your head of caribbean. yeah but what i'm saying is if you're dressed in a in way that sets you out as different to some of the other attendees and then you get that you get picked up for that point of difference. your point of difference statement that you were make in your were trying to make in your presentation accepted it presentation is now accepted it andifs presentation is now accepted it and it's picked into and it's now picked into intrigue. someone then intrigue. so if someone then goes and ask, oh,

goes over to you and ask, oh, where you from? no, where where are you from? no, where are you from? i know. where are you from? no, where are you from? i know . are you are you from? i know. are you really from? i mean, come on if you present yourself as a remark of respect and a note to celebrate your heritage , then celebrate your heritage, then why would you be offended and insulted when one seeks at a time in your head say there's nothing offensive about the initial question. the point of offence is not taking at face value and goes you fellaini's answer and i think . the reason answer and i think. the reason she's the fulani is she's chosen the name fulani is that that's part of that i think that's part of nigeria where originally she would see ccf as coming from. but the it's the not taking at face value and pushing and pushing and pushing. and in fairness, lady hussey she probably didn't think she was being terribly about no let me finish but for people and i've had this and other people on our communities will had this others may not mind it but i've had that and it's the not taking my response oh that's the offensive . what was she rude. yes she rude. but you know what proposing at all is a whole

multiplication of the speech codes. the avoidance of my paragraph and the preservation . paragraph and the preservation. a safe space. just close . you a safe space. just close. you know isn't some of you have you know isn't some of you have you know you know it's like etiquette you like to control the way people speak. you don't people to level with and say where are you from common sense and a bit of empathy people's feelings. can i just ask, by the way, as some of you might have noticed, somebody on social media taking a great deal of time to prepare basically set of allegations, claims or whatever into systems spaces the charity and asked that the charity commission that it does an investigation which it's now doing as of course these are just allegations nothing's been proven whatever it's an investigation some people are saying that because lady hussey has now accepted the apology of ngozi fulani that this investigation into this suspect be dropped. no, not at all. they're completely separate things. i've read those allegations very serious and they're very concerning the very

actually, they should be fully investigated. and if there if they're true, then action absolutely must be taken because it's the allegation certainly describe a grift , but the describe a grift, but the interaction with is a completely separate event . well yeah. and separate event. well yeah. and if you haven't seen some of these allegations, by the way, i strongly that you take some time. you need to sit down and pull up a chair and get a grip because. it's quite long, i'll because. it's quite long, i'll be honest you, but it be honest with you, but it absolutely fascinating. so i would some looking at would spend some time looking at that were you. right. that if i were you. right. i want of thoughts on want some of your thoughts on that topic. where are you on this? do you think that it's time now to forget it all move on nice and happy that on and it's nice and happy that everyone's moved on? that part of the statement, the that of the statement, the way that i found fascinating palace, found fascinating from palace, is and lazy susan is the misfit and lazy susan thought they'd be left in peace to reap builds their lives in the wake of an immensely distressing period for them both . well, i don't mean to be rude or anything right, but why? if we saw did we become so extreme our language? when you follow this whole story, it was deeply

traumatic initially , it was traumatic initially, it was deeply traumatic. i was. and now need to rebuild my life in. a wake of an immensely distressing period, like a war and maybe it's just an overactive pr who has written those words and actually the two ladies had a nice chat and, moved on from . nice chat and, moved on from. anyway, let me know your thoughts. i have say on the pension one no one's in favour. pretty much of the extra tax pull on the advertising the you know the messages for the kids. yes back all of this advertising the dangers is a beneficial thing get the message out there elizabeth completely agrees . elizabeth completely agrees. well when it comes to the royal situation many people are saying why sorry if just landed on my face. i think that was my fly is hidden for me to shut up and throw over to laurence fox at all james, you very much for your time. laurence fox. up next, i'm going to take the hint of fly and hand over to fox. laurence, evening. what of fly and hand over to fox. laure got evening. what of fly and hand over to fox. laure got for evening. what of fly and hand over to fox. laure got for us? vening. what of fly and hand over to fox. laure got for us? hi, ing. what of fly and hand over to fox. laure got for us? hi, james 1at of fly and hand over to fox. laure got for us? hi, james great have got for us? hi, james great show tonight. we're talking

about strikes, school . and about strikes, school. and health tips from annabel croft for the new year to make people like me feel. oh, i'll tell you what amount of overindulging 4 to 8 too much i'm going to drink too much over the christmas period. i confess that now. so i'll be tuning in those health tips. lawrence it sounds good thanks again to my guys here thanks again to my guys here thanks you at home your thanks you at home for your company on everyone the company on next everyone the weather . have weekend weather. have a good weekend good evening i'm alex deakin and this your latest update from this is your latest update from the met office. the weekend promises changes it is going promises big changes it is going to steadily be milder and as it does so some wet weather on sunday could lead to a of snow for time that's going to come from low pressure systems lurking me way out in the atlantic for the time being we've got pressure across we've got high pressure across the for another the south making for another very night further very frosty night further north it turning a bit milder but it is turning a bit milder but still cold enough for some problems we continue to see problems as we continue to see some hail snow and that levels rain and sleet showers turning things quite icy from wales because north—west england and

into parts of scotland , much of into parts of scotland, much of the south, as i said, it is very again in rural spots negative double figures and similar temperatures across north scotland, perhaps where there's some snow lying on the ground. so potentially on saturday morning, we've still the showers coming in. quite a lot of cloud tomorrow compared to today across . northwest england and across. northwest england and nonh across. northwest england and north rain at low levels, north wales rain at low levels, but some hill snow will continue. certainly snow in the showers across the highlands of , for many though, , scotland. for many though, it's a a bright saturday it's a dry a bright saturday still cold but not quite as cold. temperatures are just starting to lift as the winds switch round to the south. that means we'll see a few more showers across north wales, northern england during saturday evening , still with some snow in evening, still with some snow in the hills and therefore potentially there will be potentially icy there will be another widespread frost saturday evening. but actually temperatures through the night as . we start to see this change as. we start to see this change wet weather just edging into the south—west means that, yes , will south—west means that, yes, will be frosty through the evening, but temperatures will picking up through night as this wet

through the night as this wet weather arrives, though, hits weather arrives, though, it hits the could be some the air. there could be some heavy for a time on sunday. heavy snow for a time on sunday. wales, particularly the high ground into parts of the midlands then into northern midlands and then into northern england scotland. snow england and scotland. that snow could some problems. but could cause some problems. but even south, the rain even further south, the rain hitting surfaces may make hitting frozen surfaces may make things icy . so we do have things very icy. so we do have warnings in place still cold across the north—east, but it is turning milder through .

sunday have happy friday. it's lawrence , fox news time . the slog of the , fox news time. the slog of the week is over and i'm here to cool your cockles with some heated debate and thoughtful

reflection coming up