hello there. it's 6:00 on michelle dewberry and is dewbs& co the show where we'll get into some of the things that have got you today and how many people are struggling in society right now . but there are a are struggling in society right now. but there are a group of people that fine. people that are doing fine. thank much . the thank you very much. the billionaires who i'm talking billionaires are who i'm talking . did you know there are now more of them in the uk than ever 7 more of them in the uk than ever .7 some saying is the answer .7 some are saying is the answer to things like nurses strike tax, the billionaires to give it to the nurses. really? is that the answer is as simple as straightforward as that. give me

your thoughts tonight i'm jeremy clarkson having seen what he's been up to he reckons in his column anyway that he hates meghan markle . so i've got to meghan markle. so i've got to say it has been lot of outrage about that . i'll tell you about that. i'll tell you exactly , he said, i'm getting exactly, he said, i'm getting into this. do you think ever. okay, basically to say that you hate somebody ? is that just free hate somebody? is that just free speech? is it a little bit hurtful ? i don't know. i want hurtful? i don't know. i want your thoughts on that tonight. and speaking of hateful, do schools need to do more to teach about the dangers of anti would that work? should you be pulling out . don't know one group of out. don't know one group of religious hatred verses another. how do you think schools should do all this deal with it get the right outcomes and. what on earth is going on with men? i'm asking because the office for national statistics said that they are now the biggest group people who are not in work . why people who are not in work. why not? what's going on? you a young man? do you work? have you any intention of working? give me your thoughts tonight. i love it to come. but first off,

it all to come. but first off, let's bring ourselves up to speed. tonight's latest headunes. headunes thank headlines. thank you very much, michelle and evening to you. our top story concerns the rwanda plan and the government and the developments of that today and the home secretary has said in the home secretary has said in the house of commons today she is committed to rwanda deportation plan after the high court ruled it is lawful. speaking in the commons said the plan was humane and a practical alternative for those who come to the uk through and illegal routes . the royal courts of routes. the royal courts of justice ruled the was consistent with international refugee conventions and charity have vowed to appeal today's , vowed to appeal today's, claiming the east african lacks a fair and official asylum system. the home says we can't tolerate . people coming here tolerate. people coming here illegally being relocated to rwanda is a punishment, but it

is innovative way of addressing major problem to redress the imbalance between illegal and legal migration routes. it will also ensure that those in genuine need of international protection are provided with it in rwanda . 23 year old gabrielle in rwanda. 23 year old gabrielle hutchinson has become the second woman to die following a crowd crash . the o2 academy brixton crash. the o2 academy brixton last thursday . the met police last thursday. the met police says she was part of the security team working at the venue.the security team working at the venue. the force also three women who were actually critically injured were all in the at the time of the accident . a third woman aged 21 remains in a critical condition in hospital . that's all i have time hospital. that's all i have time today. now back to michelle dewberry .

dewberry. thanks for that, polly . well, thanks for that, polly. well, you're lucky people. i am with you're lucky people. i am with you till 7:00 tonight. keeping me company alongside me right through all that way. to the top of the show tonight, serial entrepreneur david thompson. good evening . welcome back. and good evening. welcome back. and i lost you, didn't i, frank? for a day. how would you to be introduced? there was a list as long as my arm. then out long as my arm. then coming out of everybody off . of his mouth. everybody off. academic sociologist . bit of academic sociologist. bit of everything on the panel tonight . and you know the drill, don't you ? not just about us here. you? not just about us here. it's about you at home as well. what's on your minds? get in touch with me. reviews gbnews.uk or you tweet me at gb news. guess what? what a treat for you tonight. i've got a new tool let loose on a new technology. so they have because you're going to be able to see your own comments. how exciting. do make sure that you're emailing me. gp views at gb news dot uk. the email today is my penultimate

day until i head for christmas as well . so you know what i want as well. so you know what i want to do before? i leave. i want to save some of your festivities at home. i do. i want say where are you going to be celebrating your christmas show? your christmas tree is your living rooms. you can email to not be doing a can email us to not be doing a round of my favourite ones before off on holiday before i go off on holiday tomorrow have put a hash tomorrow. you have to put a hash tag on there though, so just do hashtag jb news trees . they good hashtag jb news trees. they good and you get that hashtag gb news trees and i'll round up my favourites and i'll show you will have a look at each of those trees before those christmas trees before i head tomorrow. but first of head off tomorrow. but first of all, i want to talk lot about all, i want to talk a lot about billionaires in just a second. so i want to talk about, hey , so i want to talk about, hey, it's this whole notion of, hey , it's this whole notion of, hey, should you be able to even say that in this that you had somebody in this day age to talk about the day and age to talk about the clarkson and meghan markle thing? but i'll get into that in just second. today you just a second. but today you might there was a court might nurses there was a court ruling it ruling polish been mentioning it about saying that it's now lawful actually that people can

be sent over to rwanda . this is be sent over to rwanda. this is for provided this is something that's been suing them probing isn't it, for a long time. we'll touch on this very briefly before we get into situation with wealth in this country. what reckon? this what do you reckon? so this ruling idea or not? well, ruling today, idea or not? well, i think makes sense because i think got to follow think courts got to follow parliament. decision think courts got to follow pethere's1t. decision think courts got to follow pethere's intrinsically decision think courts got to follow pethere's intrinsically wrongecision it there's intrinsically wrong with the way the decision . i with the way the decision. i would say that although legally it's absolutely right that this this should continue . i don't this should continue. i don't think the policy itself is to make the slightest bit of difference it's a very expensive policy that will impact on the margins . policy that will impact on the margins. it's policy that will impact on the margins . it's not policy that will impact on the margins. it's not going to policy that will impact on the margins . it's not going to stop margins. it's not going to stop migration in any serious sense. well, it's not expensive. is putting people up for star hotels imminently. if you ask about five star hotels with this, where david thomson, where do you stand on it? well, i agree that it's really that the have followed them across key institutions, but it's going to cost between 12 an d £24,000 per cost between 12 and £24,000 per migrant to, if you like, export

to rwanda , which is going to to rwanda, which is going to cost a lot of money. the really the real issue is, is this going to a disincentive ? either the to a disincentive? either the people smugglers who i think are effectively cultural human terrorists or indeed the un migrants and community, no the truth of this is it misses misdirection, isn't it? what determine if my mate first harming me initially from, i don't know, a four star hotel somewhere saying to me almost get on the boat. look how good it is. and then all of a sudden i wanted to head for rotherham and i found myself inadvertently shipped over rwanda . that shipped over to rwanda. that would deter me from telling my mates, come me, because mates, come and join me, because that's happening at the that's what's happening at the moment isn't it? there's a lot of selling this of people clearly selling this kind and all the rest of it kind trip and all the rest of it to their friends and their peers or whatever it is places or whatever it is in places like albania so forth. albania and so on and so forth. go. but if you have a dream that's going to end just because get this bit of news , if you get this bit of news, if you dream coming to britain dream about coming to britain

yeah, i think you've got to follow instincts no matter follow your instincts no matter what not worried about what and not too worried about to you inadvertently to britain and you inadvertently up in rwanda then surely that's a distance and i don't i don't i don't agree that these people will be face timing anybody i mean you've got to be pretty disconnected from from the to media desperate enough to get on a dinghy. this isn't. oh, david, i like you. i really like cuba . i like you. i really like cuba. these people are not disconnected the media to get a because a lot of this trade is peddled on things like tick tock which is huge form of media certainly younger people, they know far more about media than we do . so i don't think there's we do. so i don't think there's any disconnection . the reality any disconnection. the reality is, is if you talk some of these young guys , you know, they're young guys, you know, they're desperate to come here because they want a better life. and although they might be thwarted because might end up in because they might end up in rwanda. the rwanda. that will not stop the majority coming majority of people coming through. unfortunately, will through. unfortunately, i will say this, though, arsenal, my team, my football team , i love team, my football team, i love sponsored with a shirt that says

wenda. yes. and pygmy the president routinely criticises the performance of the arsenal team . so i will say this 12 and team. so i will say this 12 and a person maybe we can assign a replacement for gabriel. i think arsenal's problems anyways as a spurs fan match of the day you said, well, thank you very much . listen, what do you think about ? that whole situation with about? that whole situation with rwanda , to me personally, it all rwanda, to me personally, it all come down to whether not this government has a backbone and actually has it in them to create a plan full of people and send them over to rwanda. we can go around the houses but until it actually happens all it is irrelevant. give me authorship views that gbnews.uk. let's talk cash, shall we? we all know by now that there is a cost of living crisis is affecting pretty much everyone in right now but there is a bot because the number of billionaires in this has risen to record this country has risen to record levels many are now saying that this is where the answer is if

you want to for example, give the next is a pay rise, etc. take it off the billionaires. let's create a wealth tax. is it that simple i'll start with you, frank, for adding a wealth tax? well i think it's a fool's errand , you know , way the world errand, you know, way the world works is not simply there's a fixed stake and you take it away from the billionaires and you give it to nurse that doesn't what it does kind of creates a focus on redistributing already existing wealth rather than confronting the question of how do we increase the cake all together so that working class pubuc together so that working class public sector workers can get more resources and get them higher earnings . now, more resources and get them higher earnings. now, i'm more resources and get them higher earnings . now, i'm not more resources and get them higher earnings. now, i'm not in principle against a wealth tax, but the tax should be. does that mean you're not in principle against a wealth tax? well, i offer a wealth tax. if it's not used to solve the kind of problems that we're trying to solve it because it wouldn't solve it because it wouldn't solve the problem of poverty, for you are in for example. so you are in favour of a wealth tax in principle only because it can be used quite effectively to

invest. the money could be used to invest in infrastructure, in industry which the country so needs. but there's a trade because if you go to high with the with the tax, then that acts as a disincentive to many , they as a disincentive to many, they will make , you know, they will will make, you know, they will not be working there, you know , not be working there, you know, all the time. they will not be investing here in britain. so there's a danger that the good wealth tax turns into its very opposite because has a diminishing impact upon the pubuc diminishing impact upon the public purse . well, i speak to public purse. well, i speak to a very wealthy young , middle aged very wealthy young, middle aged economic today. thank you. is that david thomson? i'm going to get into every type of soul that. you are a very successful businessman. you created businesses , which have gone on businesses, which have gone on to the market and had to the stock market and had billion valuations. you billion dollar valuations. you know a thing or two about entrepreneurial about what entrepreneurial ism, about what motivates the wealthy and all the rest of it. first and foremost, you. it's a good indicator that we've got a rising number of billionaires in this it's about, this country what it's about, it's having a lot of

it's a bit like having a lot of olympic gold medallists. yes 177 billionaires. there's . 20 $700 billionaires. there's. 20 $700 billionaires. there's. 20 $700 billionaires on the planet. we should want of them, because billionaires typically people who've done really well, often providing jobs, boosts economy. and we should aspire to be like them. and here's the thing about anyway. if you say we're going to give you massively high wealth taxes where the money you've paid income tax on and national insurance , your national insurance, your companies have paid tax now . companies have paid tax now. we're going to take what you thought and we're thought was yours and we're going reduce it over. thought was yours and we're going reduce it over . these going to reduce it over. these people are economic tourists in reality is just going to go away they're just going to disappear . is there anything is that just the myth that's peddled? because when people say tax the wealthy or wealthy will go or will they believable, they'll leave that and really do they leave? do and really do they leave? yes do they?i and really do they leave? yes do they? i know. i know somebody knows they go well, some knows that if they go well, some will countries will go to countries just without people without tax. that's why people used to britain. there used to come to britain. there was no wealth tax and you had an non—dom rules or you go to

non—dom rules or you can go to places like ireland can places like ireland or you can go to malta or channel go to like malta or channel islands or you know, that's only some of them. i think that if you like a russian or a middle eastern oligarch living here , eastern oligarch living here, you will leave no doubt about it. but a lot of people , britain it. but a lot of people, britain as a very good place to invest no matter what, it's really good sort of economic for very rich people to make their way in the world they like quality of life. and when you talk to people who are internationally in the upper income . they regard britain as income. they regard britain as a really, really nice place to hang out. it used to i think i think it still is. i mean, you know, you know, rich people don't go to munich to have a good time and i think somebody over ten, $12 million, you have to remember a billionaire these daysis to remember a billionaire these days is their equivalent to a millionaire in the 1980s given the inflated values and the value , money is no longer what value, money is no longer what it was 20, 30 years ago. so a

real we don't have the kind of billionaire as we used to have in such large numbers. what we have is a lot of people who are like the old millionaires, but they to themselves they are able to call themselves billionaire because of the billionaire guys because of the fact the of money has has fact that the of money has has been really . yeah. and i think been really. yeah. and i think what i find fascinating is about a lot of this conversation and i do feel it is quite a lot of politics of envy as this was a big piece in the guardian today. there's been a lot of strategies that have been talked about as to how to take from the so—called elite, wealthy and so—called elite, the wealthy and all of but they all the rest of it. but they never really seem to take account fact that account of the fact that actually these people, they employ a great deal people so employ a great deal of people so they income they create huge income for a variety of families variety of different families they a lot of tax already . they pay a lot of tax already. they do kind of have a lot of responsibility for innovation in this country as well. so to me , this country as well. so to me, kind of positives, if you like, of are overlooked often . of those are overlooked often. the simple fact is the headline is for 177 billionaires, the nhs

costs 180 billion a year. so you're going to end up with is not to be whatever you tax them. we're going to take all their money off them. they've got an average of $2 billion of net wealth each can't take the money if certainly to do if you certainly threaten to do they would go. they certainly all would go. what with what actually happens with these taxes introduce a tax for taxes is you introduce a tax for the for the you know, the profits or the wealth tax for the the super rich. and then the for the super rich. and then it down until all us it triples down until all of us are world tax, we pay are paying world tax, we pay well anyway in this country, well tax anyway in this country, all of us, we pay inheritance tax the government. when die tax the government. when you die the 40% of i the government takes 40% of i think should pay think you should pay into inheritance what inheritance tax. so that's what the be a thing that is the tax be a thing that is a wealth tax. what happens is you pay wealth tax. what happens is you pay taxes, you pay vat, you pay your taxes, you pay vat, you your national insurance, you pay your national insurance, you pay your you your corporations your you pay your corporations tax. and then the money you've got left, you put into a house and what they want to do is going to introduce, well, tax taxes. what corbyn hinting at, we're or two or 3% we're going to one or two or 3% of that a year if you're worth more you. i don't to more than you. i don't want to live in country like that. live in a country like that. i to live in aspirational

to live in an aspirational country where we pay our taxes. yes the roads and the health service and we get on. we all become if you're become rich. if you're a billionaire, someone takes an extra you, which is extra 1% off you, which is what one of proposals as a as one of the proposals as a 1, as you say, what's going to do you say, what's1% going to do if that well, it's if you're that rich? well, it's not going to raise an awful lot of money then either. the administration of it also administration of it. it also sends signal. sends sends a signal. it sends a signal that isn't about signal that britain isn't about making rewarding you making money and rewarding you and money and being place where the money you've pay on is you've earned. you pay on is yours. says, we're taking yours. it says, we're taking yours. it says, we're taking your a sleeping your money. it's a sleeping charge. very, very charge. it's a very, very, very move for an entrepreneurial country. well, i'm going test country. well, i'm going to test this. time testing this. my first time testing this. my first time testing this. going to press the this. i'm going to press the button. you want button. everyone, you want to blow system and take blow the entire system and take gb air. hang on. let me gb news off air. hang on. let me show you what karl says. is korolev. oh, yes good. korolev. oh, yes very good. that's carol kornbluh . me, if that's carol kornbluh. me, if you read that on your you can read that on your screen. got better screen. i've only got better than carol says them. than me, carol says tax them. she's about wealthy . she's talking about wealthy. we're that if we we're always told that if we that they leave really . she says that they leave really. she says we've got high taxes now a decent person , a decent thinking decent person, a decent thinking person, except his . right. and person, except his. right. and so much money what others have

nothing say. carol, you intrigued there because when you say how can a decent thinking person accept his right, earn so much money, what others have nothing. do you think it's a response of a person, a say, the wealthy, to accept an assumed response ability for person , response ability for person, i.e. using your words those people that have nothing found that kind of notion do think or do you think to that frank? well, i think it's very divisive . first of all, basically, it implies that my future , my implies that my future, my wealth, my well—being depends on taking stuff away from you or diminishing the amount of income you have. and that's the problem with . the current discussion, with. the current discussion, the reason why people are proposing a wealth tax is because on paper , on the media, because on paper, on the media, it looks really good that you kind of making people who don't deserve all that much money pay for it. and there's a strong ideological driver behind this. and i think a lot of people

believe that somehow, you know, the very fact that they are not well—off is, the consequence of you or me or anybody else having a good income and it doesn't really work like that . in fact, really work like that. in fact, the people that have a high the more people that have a high level of income are around, the more they able to provide the tax basis for. people who are on very low incomes to get by and have a decent standard of living indeed , james from will pay a indeed, james from will pay a lot. the first conversation we're having on about the whole rwanda thing, jim says , you seen rwanda thing, jim says, you seen the glamorous set up in rwanda awaiting those migrants . you awaiting those migrants. you said the moonlight apartments , said the moonlight apartments, malibu beach, just look at malibu beach, and just look at the lovely bedroom , as he says, the lovely bedroom, as he says, whether it's nice whether they're in rwanda. it's a bit humid . well, humid anyway. is humid. well, humid anyway. is quite nice. so other than here at the moment, it's not i suspect also look, we're talking abouti suspect also look, we're talking about i would say how do you say don't nurses a pay rise, just raise the tax threshold on their wages. so equals a 20% rise, as

in real terms. that's paddy's idea there in terms of what you could do if i was actually you give me a good idea that i'm going to take a very quick break. when i come back, i'm going to ask these two. just a quick question in terms of what they do, what they think they should do, what we do in terms of the we should do in terms of the nurses, in of pay rises, nurses, in terms of pay rises, how how can draw this how much how can we draw this kind situation to a close? so kind of situation to a close? so put your thinking caps on, gents. i'll come back in just a couple of with

hello there. welcome back to dewbs& co me michelle dewberry keeping you company right through. and since 7:00 this evening alongside me, entrepreneur david thabiso and the author , academic and the author, academic and sociologist frank ferreira day. good evening, gents. welcome back. we've just talking back. we've just been talking about tax . barnard says about wealth, tax. barnard says do lower earners want rich people to pay more tax? this is a labour idea to appease the

labour supporters that says richard says a wealth tax is , richard says a wealth tax is, utterly immoral people have tax on their wealth already . and on their wealth already. and john, they're not beating around the bush. john, you say the idea that the wealthy can pay for the profligacy of the rest of us is on tenable. so he says you've got a round of applause there. one of you of david. the whole concept of this wealth we were talking about, what should we take from the wealthy to give to people like the nurses how do we fix the situation with, the nurses? got nothing do nurses? it's got nothing to do with billionaires. david with the billionaires. david i know, but moved on. paid know, but moved on. they've paid their so . you shouldn't take their tax so. you shouldn't take away their wealth unless they want so it can be want to give it so it can be about the nurses then. well the nurses what need to nurses here and what we need to do generally with pay do here generally with pay rises, rid all these rises, get rid of all these strikes at the people in strikes is look at the people in any class of workers that we're that with. so the that we deal with. so the nurses, going to have an nurses, they're going to have an average wage of x. i don't know what. i'm afraid so it's what. i'm afraid i'm so it's about so single grand a about 3000. so single 33 grand a year working really year and you're working really hard the nurses are

hard and the nurses are incredibly what incredibly important what we need do make it make their need to do is make it make their life easier. so i think for next year they should have inflation unked year they should have inflation linked pay. meantime , the linked pay. in the meantime, the stuff spending their stuff they're spending their money and fuel money on, heating and fuel and everything that they everything else that they spending money on should in spending on money on should in some way, i believe should have one or two years of government to help. so if you can't afford essential things to get you buying your working i think the government owes you that and i really we shouldn't be handing out these subsidies to out all these subsidies to everybody and all these pay rises , nurses the rises, the nurses and the critical services they come first. i would just pay them the rate of inflation right now and review year. but right by review every year. but right by the way, they've asked for 19, which is inflation plus five. frank do you stand on it? well, i think the problem is that there is no short term solution . i think we wasted a lot of money during the lockdown, we just kind of printed in a very silly way. and yet we have to do something to improve the position of particularly in the

national health service. i think the solution lies in ensuring that nurses are valued more. i mean, we pay a lot of lip service to that, but most nurses that i talk to make the point that i talk to make the point that don't feel that they are at all valued, that the profession is from bad to worse. so the things that i would do is nurses when they go to university i've got to pay university fees . and got to pay university fees. and i would argue that if you go to university, you're getting a degree, you don't have to pay your if stay in the your fees. if you stay in the national health service for a certain of i think certain number of years, i think that be a huge plus for that would be a huge plus for especially the younger nurses who a very high rate who are paying a very high rate of interest on the on the fees. they're got to pay back. the second thing that i would do is just, think really important just, i think really important is sense, take the is to, in a sense, take the culture of nursing a little bit more seriously and to create an environment when nurses have more opportunities, to be trained to be educated, to have a greater variety of career options, then they have at the moment. yeah. and we could you

can also do sort of creatively as well to your point. so what abouti as well to your point. so what about i don't know. it's a new thing that actually nurses and, nhs staff don't have to pay to park their places of sudeley park in their places of sudeley and you could set up that if you're in the public sector, i don't know, you could unpack i alluded to this earlier on in email. you could raise the personal tax threshold so you could play around with things and you could give them a free train, for example, a free train to go work. yeah, a lot different as well. you do get the blue light count if you work for the nhs. so you do get lots of discounts in places already anyway, your thoughts anyway, keep your thoughts on that gives a gb that topic coming in. gives a gb news dot uk email address news dot uk the email address now . jeremy clarkson. he's upset now. jeremy clarkson. he's upset lot of people he is the former top gear host long story he perished or should i say he wrote a column that was published this weekend saying he l, published this weekend saying he i, quote, this is direct quotes. he hates. meghan markle on a cellular level . it went on to cellular level. it went on to say that he dreams about her essentially being dragged

through the streets naked, having excrement for her. apparently so . never seen apparently so. never seen a single episode of it. apparently if you're a game of thrones fan , you will know that that is a scene from. the hit tv series neven scene from. the hit tv series never, ever, ever seen a single episode of it. i have no intention of starting now, but anyway, it's really upset a lot of people. this is a free country. was he allowed to say what he said? should been able to what you said? frank to say what you said? frank absolutely that it's absolutely. i think that it's perfectly hate. i mean, perfectly okay to. hate. i mean, i'm that everybody in this i'm sure that everybody in this room hates something and a lot of are hesitant of people are hesitant about their for certain their hatred for certain phenomenon because these days , phenomenon because these days, the very emotion of hate, which is a very natural human, has been criminalised . a number of been criminalised. a number of number of areas, unfortunately in the society, myself , i think in the society, myself, i think the reaction to clarkson worse than what clarkson did because clarkson what just what a stupid article. yeah. express himself a very clumsy, unhelpful kind of way. it was really bad journalism , very childish, very journalism, very childish, very

infantile . but the reaction to infantile. but the reaction to it , you know, infantile. but the reaction to it, you know, i'm infantile. but the reaction to it , you know, i'm offended. infantile. but the reaction to it, you know, i'm offended. i'm hurt i'm traumatised. that becomes norm. and if we allow a situation where people's emotional reaction articles and other of communications can used to force people , censor their to force people, censor their words or to write differently, then we've got a big problem and i was really disappointed that clarkson who i thought of had a bit of a backbone, then apologised . i think the apology apologised. i think the apology rolling over under pressure is a no show. it stops shy of apologising. i'll read you what he said. you said this on twitter, this is clarkson. it went. oh dear. i put it on screen by the way in case you're watching, not listening. he says oh i've rather put my oh dear i've rather put my foreigner a column wrote foreigner in a column i wrote about. meghan and i made a clumsy to, a in clumsy reference to, a scene in games of friends and is not sorry this has gone down badly a great many people i'm to have caused and i shall caused so much hurt and i shall be more careful in so be more careful in future. so i kind of stopped short well full on. oh god i'm so sorry. it

on. oh my god i'm so sorry. it was a it was a bit of an apology i'm clarkson is very different than most are he's too self—centred to be totally apologetic but nevertheless think that has gone a long way towards that and this but he signals the message that because some people upset by it he has to censor his ideas he's got no differently i as a sociologist are offend people all the time that's part of my job is to offend people, to question and to criticise if every time people react against words, i'm going to hide in a cave . going to hide in a cave. apologised and i think my life as an academic, as an intellectual really is going to be short circuited and. it becomes a really boring public life that i have to question for you. but in a second i'm going to i'll come back to you david. where you stand on well? where do you stand on all well? he i think his he apologised and i think his main should actually for main should actually be for that. was a poorly written that. it was a poorly written and unfunny article. i think he meant well it just wasn't, it wasn't funny and it's very easy

to be a playground bully and i think it's the kind of we all make , you know, i'm a, i'm a, i make, you know, i'm a, i'm a, i work in comedy and as a producer and i can tell you that it's really easy when you're drunk around the kitchen table, just mouth off and you and your partner might go your kids might go. that's no good, dad you know? right, right. know? right, right, right. and nobody and nobody did that this time. and i just want to actually my i want to say something on a human level. my one of my best friends and my producing partner and a great, great satirist called victor lewis smith died last week very suddenly . and he wrote week very suddenly. and he wrote a fake obituary about clarkson and, you know, he said , we're and, you know, he said, we're sad to lose mr. clarkson , who is sad to lose mr. clarkson, who is known and famed primarily for praising a 42 inch waist into a 24 inch jeans, a practise that led to him being known as the human apple, now , to me, that's human apple, now, to me, that's affectionately satirical and, the hate that we got this and the hate that we got this and the laziness , meghan herself the laziness, meghan herself says, don't let her perfect be

the enemy of good. i tell you don't this time don't let not good enough allow to write articles that are meant to be funny. but you know he's apologised but funny is such like a subjective because i don't find it's no offence to but i don't really find comedians funny. but i don't really find comedians funny . with perhaps comedians funny. with perhaps the exception of peter. i struggle find a comedian that makes me laugh when i see a lot of this . it doesn't make me of this. it doesn't make me chuckle at all, but nor would it make me go , oh, that's an awful make me go, oh, that's an awful thing to say. don't do that. and when you say you're an academic. frank so know you upset people, you offend people all the time. would you deliberately seek to offend ? no, i think that's offend? no, i think that's pointless. i mean , you might try pointless. i mean, you might try to deliberately offend your enemy. somebody who really dislikes you and trying to fight back. but in general, i think being sensitive , being being being sensitive, being being nice to people , usually the nice to people, usually the first recourse, but nevertheless

there are some ideas that are so important or articulate that you have to do it even though you understand and that is going to really upset. so for example, i agree with clarkson's content of what he's saying. i think that , what he's saying. i think that, you know, meghan and the whole phenomenon seems to me to be a real problem, that kind of therapeutic . who in a sense is therapeutic. who in a sense is paris ? sadiq on the emotion of paris? sadiq on the emotion of the public totally get that the trouble is you don't want to express that in such a clumsy of childish kind of way and if you are going to criticise who is held in high by a section of the population you've got to choose your word . you know forensically your word. you know forensically , so that you can in a sense take the piss, you can really of challenge them, but in a way thatis challenge them, but in a way that is articulate , clear and that is articulate, clear and funny that's the way we use it. i'm sorry. i'm sorry. make my mind my vocabulary is not the most sophistication well yeah , most sophistication well yeah, luckily i'm not so i'm on it and

i'm across. sorry. you're right. lots of guys. i apologise. that's all right. i'll just kick you on. i'll just cancel you anyway. get rid of them. cancel them. i'm just pressing my button to share some of your thoughts . betty says , well, thoughts. betty says, well, don't know what you just said. betty because i pressed the button. i'm done. the way i've gone, i've got, i've got, oh, i'm not a lover of harry and meghan . but what jeremy said is meghan. but what jeremy said is despicable. that's carole . i despicable. that's carole. i know betty is. oh, there's betty . michelle actions , speak louder . michelle actions, speak louder than words, silly comment from clarkson . but if anyone should clarkson. but if anyone should be in trouble, it's markle . be in trouble, it's markle. really? i mean , could open that really? i mean, could open that entire can of worms about meghan and harry. but you know what ? and harry. but you know what? not going to lie . i'm not that not going to lie. i'm not that interested in the whole thing. i still haven't even watched all of that . i still haven't watched of that. i still haven't watched that documentary a new that whole documentary. a new one i've seen today. and then new whatever is coming new series or whatever is coming out says, all out now. justin says, i bet all the people who disagree with jeremy hate

jeremy now hate him. hypothetical keyboard warriors . hypothetical keyboard warriors. oh, hypocritical. it means hypocrites , michael. i'm loving hypocrites, michael. i'm loving it. shout in my ears. justin apparently didn't say a hypothetical. he said critical. a we're learning look , we're a we're learning look, we're learning together. our way now. you know, the pressure's on, by the way if you're going to email me the pressure to spell properly or the pressure because now you know your emails are going to on screen. pressure going to be on screen. pressure is and truly on. jane says, is well and truly on. jane says, hang minute, michelle no hang on a minute, michelle no one out when jo brown said one spoke out when jo brown said that someone that she wished someone essentially would for acid. people nigel farage. yes people like nigel farage. yes i remember . people like nigel farage. yes i remember. tick people like nigel farage. yes i remember . tick tock. many of you remember. tick tock. many of you guys are saying to the nurses, get pay guys are saying to the nurses, get pay reduction for doing all of their tick tock dances, all that's hot. this what about morale, motivation, maybe might just need to offload for a couple of minutes and practise their dancing. jeremy clarkson basically reaps what he serves as a no. do you think he's up for that? i've got to say, do

think it stopped shy of doing a full on apology? anyway, let me know your thoughts, what she's telling everyone, because it brought to the nation so. well, now got hang of now that i've got the hang of pressing button was quite pressing a button was quite advanced got that in advanced level but i got that in the go take a quick break. the end. go take a quick break. i conversation i continue the conversation about of hate speech about the whole of hate speech thing . do you think the dangers thing. do you think the dangers of anti—semitism should be taught schools? i'll tell you why i'm asking. and a couple of minutes, but give your minutes, but give me your thoughts and see you .

in two coming on. tom watson tonight , coming on. tom watson tonight, as rwanda flies, get the green from the high court could . this from the high court could. this be the turning point in the migrant . or be the turning point in the migrant. or will be the turning point in the migrant . or will lefty strike migrant. or will lefty strike again? one of the world's most fearless commentary , andrew fearless commentary, andrew tate, gives his unmissable verdict on the and meghan saga. plus there's unfiltered opinion

from fox, matt le letizia tackles world cup signaller gary neville . that's dan wootton neville. that's dan wootton tonight p m to 11 pm. on gb news news . hello there. welcome news news. hello there. welcome back to with b michelle dewberry right through till 7:00 tonight alongside me, the entrepreneur tapsell and the author and sociologist frank . lots of you sociologist frank. lots of you guys getting in so . i can tell guys getting in so. i can tell you the thing that's got you guys talking today still wealth, taxing . shane says you don't taxing. shane says you don't need to tax wealthy to billions of pounds . close all the of pounds. close all the loophole that they use to avoid tax melvin says a lot of people work hard to be where they are. and if you don't like it, why you work hard instead of earning that julius is michelle my answer to carol that was of my earlier viewers says billionaires have often taken

risks . they have created jobs risks. they have created jobs and they have . so there you go. and they have. so there you go. let me know your thoughts on what's this someone here about jeremy clarkson . there's jeremy clarkson. there's something very worrying what is in clarkson's woman weird mind called blaming another man saying . it was a jerk when it saying. it was a jerk when it totally wasn't. carole says was not an apology. he said it was a mistake just because people were offended . so still saying in offended. so still saying in a way he meant it doesn't regret it. and then, says clarkson isn't funny. i go, do you think it's funny? let me know. anyway, let's move on with the government's advice on anti semitism, he says that schoolchildren must be taught about anti—jewish prejudice. this becomes amid a spike in anti—semitic hate crimes. apparently it's not enough to teach about the holocaust . teach about the holocaust. modern day antisemitism must also be discussed as well . where also be discussed as well. where do you stand on that? right well, as you probably may know , well, as you probably may know, i'm jewish. i don't practise, but i'm proud of my jewish heritage . both my parents ,

heritage. both my parents, refugees from the. recently i did my family tree . and between did my family tree. and between 1918 and 1942, from the previous generations, 24,000 people in the family tree , 23,800 and the family tree, 23,800 and something were murdered . and something were murdered. and that's just their and i've been to auschwitz and i've lived with this all my and my parents when i was brought up said to me, oh, no, no, we put up a christmas tree, we put a christmas tree. we don't tell anyone jewish. and what's happened is this this became accepted all because it was taught in schools since the internet is smashed the narrative offered by governments and the bbc and state broadcasters . i mean, you know, broadcasters. i mean, you know, in every country we now have a free for all out there. and you know what? it's coming back. there are 200,000 jewish people in this country, and yet they're being blamed for everything from the covid to the invention of covid to

controlling the banks and the same kind of states hate of all groups hate scapegoating . how is groups hate scapegoating. how is the enemy of democracies, the enemy of evolution , we have to enemy of evolution, we have to be taught and we have be allowed to role play it. this has be done for every creed, colour, every every religion . and we every every religion. and we have to stop this woke with a criticism , cultural criticism, cultural appreciation. i really applaud that actor who is showing people how effective fascist dictator can be on stage . we have to can be on stage. we have to educate if you don't empathise with cruelty, if you don't inhabh with cruelty, if you don't inhabit the body of the person being abused, how do you know how they feel? honestly when i urge single school person in britain be should be taken to concentration camps they understand what all is about. it's not enough merely to have a paragraph shown to you . why? paragraph shown to you. why? where do you stand on that? frank yeah, i kind of

fundamentally disagree with that. i think that antisemitism is a huge problem and it's growing all the time , so growing all the time, so i wouldn't want to minimise it and it's a it's a real threat to democracy within our society . democracy within our society. and i do worry about it quite a bit. but as an educator i know that whenever they try we trying to put every problem onto the so you know if there's a problem with money then kids have got to learn about financial if there's a problem in relation to see if they have a relationship education if there's a problem with racism or anything else, they have to taught that. but they have to taught that. but the trouble is that never work. so if there's a hospital can i let him finish his point. go on. so the way you deal with the problem of antisemitism and all forms of xenophobia , racism is forms of xenophobia, racism is by providing children with quality education and people read the right kind literature. if they read the diary of anne frank, if they read about how the world has worked, if they learn about history , about what learn about history, about what has happened to people that have

been oppressed, then it seems me that that's how you develop the sensitivity and the understand ending and the intellectual independence you need to ward against this horrible agreeing though aren't because i know we're not agreeing because i would make the teaching of would not make the teaching of anti—semitism as distinct subject. but you're not you're not jewish. i am. you i'm jewish. and my family go wiped out in the holocaust and you don't. so you so this is fascinating so. so you to me this is this is this is even more interesting. you're actually still in the mindset of my parents don't talk about. no no i didn't i didn't say that i about all the time and i've never denied anything about my you my background and my legacy . i'm a big believer in flaunting it sort of and at every opportunity, but what i don't want to do is to create a situation where we turn schools into factories of indoctrination which is what we're doing. i want to deal with anti—semite ism in children by really educating them to think for themselves. but that frank is

what i was saying when you were saying you talked about going to auschwitz, you talked about learning about the holocaust and it doesn't work. i've i've seen kids , i've been to auschwitz and kids, i've been to auschwitz and i've seen go to auschwitz. and for this is like a nice day out and the last thing, oh , i've and the last thing, oh, i've seen kids giggling as well when you go the i mean it's strikes you go the i mean it's strikes you the second you go when you see those train lines it does you it does you but a lot of young people who really just been taken there regardless as a as a as a they out and i've seen you know, when i went there with some scholars to this because we had a seminar there on anti—semitism, i was struck by the fact that a lot of the young kids that, whatever, is just giggling and they were laughing and for them it was like going down to brighton a day or down to brighton for a day or somewhere else for teaching because if a school because if i was a school teacher took children teacher and i took some children to chamber they was to a gas chamber and, they was messing and giggling, messing around and giggling, telling an awful telling me there'd been an awful lot trouble so it's lot of trouble yeah, so it's poor teaching, but it's more than that. it's because those

young the young kids have learned the importance of taking racism, oppression. seriously they have to learn that from the from the curriculum point. the point is it's not just to it's not just a visit to auschwitz. it will teach you this just learning about this is not just learning about about anti—semitism. about about anti—semitism. it's also learning about slavery is learning about prejudice. it's not about it's only about about the war in the end of the modern yugoslavia . it's actually i'm yugoslavia. it's actually i'm all i am saying is we have to bnng all i am saying is we have to bring we have to that the that the british educational system needs to actively teach about the dangers of racism , including the dangers of racism, including the dangers of racism, including the holocaust. and one of the things is, i think all children, if possible , for the future if possible, for the future generations , is one of the generations, is one of the additional measures is to go to additional measures is to go to a concentration camp to see this is real, because so much counter information into so many, so many holocaust deniers out there. but you see kids are not learning to think for either in

schools or university is i think the educational we have in this country is pedagogically very feeble . and you have basically feeble. and you have basically kids coming out and just repeating things. they're being taught to exam to do well in the examination . and my worry is examination. and my worry is that if you have a generation of young people who haven't become intellectually self sufficient, they will not be in a position to know to how think critically, how to react . an anti—semitic how to react. an anti—semitic comment . of course, you're comment. of course, you're right. but as well as instead of. sure. well that's the key. unless there is young people who are independent thinkers. they can go to auschwitz times and that's going to make the slightest of difference. yes. have you had any antisemitism ? have you had any antisemitism? quite, quite a quite a quite a lot . what was what? thankfully lot. what was what? thankfully you've had. well it's being referred to as those people , referred to as those people, which is a euphemism. and whenever hear something like that, i, you know , i try to that, i, you know, i try to educate them, but we educate. it's not by talking to me with auschwitz, but making them feel

humiliated about the fact that they are so despicable despite all the evidence of history. but i think at the end of the day, how works here? i think it's you i'm i'm reasonably confident of what i'm doing. the thing that i'm really concerned about is are loading the curriculum with all kinds of political problems rather than teaching children, you know, good literature , good you know, good literature, good history, things they history, all the things they need to be sensitive , these need to be sensitive, these kinds of issues. and if you merely give them you political problems to think , then we problems to think, then we desensitise them from discriminating, from knowing what is right and what is wrong. and that's that's the approach that i would take. well, you've had two approaches. what's your approach would you do? i've got to say, i, as a child, went to eden walk . i don't know if eden walk. i don't know if anyone is familiar with that. eden walk. i don't know if anythese familiar with that. eden walk. i don't know if anythese on niliar with that. eden walk. i don't know if anythese on iiliar with that. eden walk. i don't know if anythese on i can with that. eden walk. i don't know if anythese on i can still that. eden walk. i don't know if anythese on i can still and. all these on i can still and i promise you i can't i cannot remember much my time at remember much from my time at school but i can certainly school, but i can certainly remember that visit the remember that visit and the immersion that it conjured up for me . let me know your for me. let me know your thoughts on the conversation that fascinating. sat and

that fascinating. i sat and listened to that for much longer. can you now give me longer. i can you now give me your thoughts it's like your thoughts but it's like a quick break. when we come back , quick break. when we come back, i'll have some of your responses quick break. when we come back, i'll ialso some of your responses quick break. when we come back, i'll ialso asne of your responses quick break. when we come back, i'll ialso as well your responses quick break. when we come back, i'll ialso as well how responses quick break. when we come back, i'll ialso as well i wantasponses quick break. when we come back, i'll ialso as well i want to ionses quick break. when we come back, i'll ialso as well i want to talks and also as well i want to talk about young men. what's on? about men, young men. what's on? why they want to why don't they want to work? tell me thoughts. see you tell me your thoughts. see you to .

in hello there. welcome back to . hello there. welcome back to. dewbs& co with me, michelle dewberry right through till 7:00 tonight. entrepreneur david keeps me company as the author, academic and sociologist frank ferrante. well, i can tell you what we are just having a very interesting conversation just then about anti—semitism . daron, then about anti—semitism. daron, let me just share of your thoughts . daron, we're talking thoughts. daron, we're talking about or not, it should be on the curriculum . says he is right the curriculum. says he is right i've got to he's though don't know which one you mean is right good education and reading stops

the misinformed spouting you can't lesson to look can't have a lesson to look curriculum for every problem keith didn't seem to keith says that didn't seem to be that much anti—semitism in this country until it its this country until it rears its headin this country until it rears its head in labour party, phil head in the labour party, phil said. a schindler's list said. sure a schindler's list film is part of the education. leslie says. i read the diary of anne when i was 13. it still me now. i'm in my sixties . a now. i'm in my sixties. a tragedy . and i like this one as tragedy. and i like this one as well. from philip, he says. michel there's only one thing you ever need to teach children , and it's called respect it's. i'll tell you what i i'm going to look for as well, because i think, i got some less than favourable comments actually as i was going through that. and it's hard me to keep up but i am going to have a look and actually if that were insulting comments, i'm perhaps going to find one if that's with you too, because believe in because i don't believe in insulting . i don't believe in insulting. i don't believe in being disrespectful, believe in respectful disagreement . and if respectful disagreement. and if you don't have that in, you well, let's have it out. that's what say. so i'm going to keep

my eyes open while we're just having this conversation. but for now, talk about young for now, let's talk about young men. figures the men. apparently figures from the office statistics office, national statistics show that 18 to 24 year roles, the rate of economic inactivity is almost . 2. for men, it's even almost. 2. for men, it's even higher . gone almost. 2. for men, it's even higher. gone past 40 to 42.3. wasco hang on, has cut to the chase for young. what's happening? i think the number of factors, number one, we devalue the cultural work and work is no seen as a creative way of making in the world, a way of gaining control , but in the world, a way of gaining control, but is in the world, a way of gaining control , but is seen in the world, a way of gaining control, but is seen as in the world, a way of gaining control , but is seen as somehow control, but is seen as somehow a drag because it interferes with your social life. and that's the message that people are getting. i think were made much worse during lockdown than when people were told working at home. isjust when people were told working at home. is just as valuable, just as good as in an office or in a factory . and what that misstated factory. and what that misstated was that when you go to work in an office, you interact, you create a kind of culture, you get a buzz that you don't get in your digital bedroom. and when a

lot of young guys hear anti work ethos anti work sensibility , it ethos anti work sensibility, it becomes something they readily internalise . and one of the internalise. and one of the things that i've noticed happening with a lot of young men is that they've been, you know, almost like kind of detached from public life by the kind of cultural norms that had been a lot of been introduced. so a lot of them almost on the margins them are almost on the margins of they regard of society they regard themselves able to get by themselves as able to get by because mom and dad will help out the social will provide bit of resources and the only thing we can do to the problem is to raise the cultural work and also very important and this is something i feel very passionate about. we've got to have high quality apprenticeships within our society . young people have our society. young people have got to learn about work practically at very early age. are apprentice system is really, really an embarrassment if you compare it to the germans for example or even to the scandinavians you'll find that being an apprentice seen really really seriously and where i

live in in kent i know of three young boys who have just turned 18 and they just got their first apprenticeships and they become transformed. they're not young men rather than just really boys aged apprenticeship. and i'm always talking about the virtues of that. david where do you stand on that? i that a lot of this down to the schism society that that came with so that i think people sitting in a home they resume based culture and i think young men have also had the gender roles annihilated in the gender roles annihilated in the changes going through they don't know who they are they know what's going on they missed maybe two or three years of active education and society and my experience is that is that women younger women are they mature faster and know their roles in terms of how they study and adapt to work. minute men between . 1820 to 23 are finding between. 1820 to 23 are finding themselves. and i think if you take away the i mean , what i'm

take away the i mean, what i'm seeing now is a fall in testosterone. we're seeing a we're seeing less drinking. we're seeing less fighting. we're seeing less fighting. we're seeing less . and what is we're seeing less. and what is it to be a man now is very, very, very well that is a huge question. and i think i'm not going to answer that. i don't think before 7:00. but what is it? be a man. i'll tell you why what i always find fascinating by the way, i found a man is all these people around trying to tie the up in knots. because i can't explain a i bet can't explain a woman. i bet they could explain what a man is, peter says michelle, not all jews are central , but what jews are central, but what percentage central are jews ? percentage of central are jews? what are you saying to that? you say, well, hitler said that not every jews a communist, but every jews a communist, but every communist, a jew. and that's kind of an indirect way of basically slandering a whole people. so the point is that if you think of jews as being central bankers or somehow disproportionately involved in banking what you have, is this fantasy image of a small group

of people somehow control the world to financial means. yeah and this is the reason i chose to that coming out because we've had literally a fantastic response that conversation that you've. but i just wanted highlight that one. colin says can't believe this kind of prejudice still happens against our jewish prejudice still happens against ourjewish population . got to ourjewish population. got to say, i agree with you. a final thought to you david. i've only got now for end of got a few seconds now for end of my anti—semitism, on my program on anti—semitism, on anything well, to be anything you want. well, to be honest with you, you know, when somebody percentage what somebody asks percentage of what are have what are jews i have to say, what percentage people that would ask that asks and the answer is that rac asks and the answer is 100. well you go, well said , 100. well you go, well said, that's all you pay to us on that note, i'll end. thank you very much so very much enjoyed this conversation tonight and i know my is have to do my view is have to we do respectful disagreement respectful disagreement respectful debate on the show i can tell you that now laurence fox what have you got for us up at seven. hi, james. tonight have rwandan refugees plots and hate speech and vaccine harm . hate speech and vaccine harm. oh, well, a mixed bag. look to

that. do not forget everyone lawrence we'll see you at seven tonight is my penultimate night before christmas. i want to see some of your christmas trees. a new tool good evening, alex deakin. and this is your latest weather from the met office after . a pretty gloomy monday . after. a pretty gloomy monday. skies for most on tuesday . it's skies for most on tuesday. it's still fairly breezy. a little cooler, but still temperatures going to be above average and way above where were this time last week? wet and windy spells coming courtesy of this area of low pressure, sending weather fronts. we're bringing quite heavy through the evening and overnight because southern england do have a met england where we do have a met office rain warning in office yellow rain warning in place right at times south wales up towards the midlands and of course to the east was much of northern britain looking largely through night, although through the night, although there showers come there will be more showers come across highlands and the across the highlands and the western pretty western isles, it stays pretty blustery . it's going to stay blustery. it's going to stay very mild . the south the very mild. the south and the east elsewhere , we could see east elsewhere, we could see some pockets of frost with some clearer skies, but generally a

bright day tomorrow it will start dank over start bit grey and dank over east anglia in the southeast. but rain here should gone but the rain here should be gone by mid—morning. plenty of showers the west of ireland showers for the west of ireland and northwest of scotch and the northwest of scotch island, where there'll be snow in the hills. one or two showers for western parts of england and wales. it's, wales. but for many it's, drawing bright with drawing a bright tuesday with sunny temperatures. as i say, not high as monday, but still average at 9 to 11 celsius. temperatures deploy a little bit on tuesday evening, temperatures deploy a little bit on tuesday evening , the largely on tuesday evening, the largely clear skies, but then we look at another chunk of rain coming in, turning things pretty soggy as we head through the early hours , of much of england and , of course, much of england and wales uncertainty about wales some uncertainty about timing of when this will come in and clear away from the east on it'll be followed by brighter skies and showers plenty showers for the north—west england, wales lots showers for western scotland and northern. and it's still pretty gusty here as well. temperatures drop down a temperatures just drop down a little, but still double digits . the south is a little above average for the time of year. temperatures, as i say, not as

as monday, but still reasonably mild signs of things turning cold in the run up to christmas at least across the north by for now .

hello it's me dance fox back in nigel's hotseat but tonight only i'm afraid . but on tonight's i'm afraid. but on tonight's very special show we'll cover what our pals on the left are horrified about the law has given the thumbs up to the were one immigration policy. i'll also have a free speech on jeremy clarkson's comments on difficult duchess as well as crucial discussion on the case against the vaccine and on talking points. i'll be joined by a controversial star of the show that has gone viral over