at six p on. welcome to dewbs& co with me emily carver. i'm sorry if you were hoping to see michelle's face this evening. she's kindly allowed me to stand in for she begins her in for her as she begins her christmas holidays. so the government has double down today when to the striking when it comes to the striking unions. barclay the health unions. steve barclay the health secretary, ambulance secretary, has said ambulance unions a conscious unions have taken a conscious choice to inflict harm on patients. was this an unnecessary escalation or do you

think the government is actually quite right to double down.7 perhaps you think the government's strike strategy has been absolute level been an absolute disaster level shambles .7 the public seem to be shambles? the public seem to be on the nurses side, that's for sure. know what you sure. let me know what you think. in light of the think. and in light of the walkout crisis the nhs, walkout crisis in the nhs, rampant inflation orders more poorest than a sieve. i'll be asking , is poorest than a sieve. i'll be asking, is britain going to the dogs? are we a nation in decline or do we all need to keep calm and carry on? we've been here before, haven't we? after all, then. i can't ignore what's happening of the border happening north of the border in scotland in scotland scotland. in my view, scotland is about to make a mistake of absolutely epic proportions, allowing men to self—identify as women and legally change their gender as young as 16. i'm very interested. interested to know what you think about that one. perhaps you have a trans child or grandchild . do you think or grandchild. do you think scotland is right to make it easier for people to change their gender? or are you worried about the impact on women's rights? least sex rights? not least single sex spaces such as prisons? and finally , have you or your finally, have you or your relatives decided to give up the

booze? it's been reported that more of young people more than half of young people are planning alcohol are planning to avoid alcohol altogether over the festive period. why do you think younger people are rejecting alcohol? all that to come tonight on all of that to come tonight on dewbs& co. and don't worry, we've collecting we've been collecting the photos. you've sending in of your christmas trees at home, but we're showing those at but we're showing those two at the the show. but before the top of the show. but before we stuck all of that, we get stuck into all of that, let's get your latest headlines . emi let's get your latest headlines. emi evening to you. well, the top story in gp news today is that ambulance unions have been reacting angrily after the government accused them of making a conscious choice to harm patients by going out on strike. well, that we everyone who wants to be warned that we want to where? well, the health secretary, steve barclay, claims that the unions are refusing to work together with the government at a national level on how paramedics will cover emergency calls during strike

action. unite's sharon graham says the health secretary comments are a blatant lie and an embarrassment for him and the government. the gmb union has called the comments insulting and unison general secretary christine mccarney says mr. barclay doesn't even want to discuss pay . we sit down in discuss pay. we sit down in a room, you have a bit of give and take on both sides. i'm nothing from him or from this government. all they're saying to me is we can't negotiate bp and where does that leave us? one the reasons the ambulance one of the reasons the ambulance service, the is in such service, the nhs is in such a dire state is because they haven't invested the haven't invested in the workforce. leave. workforce. so people leave. those are left are under those who are left are under increasing pressure. these people don't give me a break. they hardly off. they work they hardly get off. they work excessive overtime because this is only way the service can is the only way the service can run . well, the health secretary, run. well, the health secretary, for his part, maintains the government is trying to work constructively with the trade unions . clearly, we will need to unions. clearly, we will need to look at the data from today to see whether the exemptions that

the trade unions have promised materialise . they've said on the materialise. they've said on the one hand they want to cause maximum disruption, but on the other hand that they don't want to cause to home patients. so we've tried to work constructively with the trade unions, but of course, we see unions, but of course, if we see significant patient harm, then as a government we will need to look at what is turning to the minimum service levels . well, minimum service levels. well, paramedic paul turner says despite today's strike action, patients should feel safe. and that ambulance workers are responding to emergency . we have responding to emergency. we have responded to the life and limb calls that have come in. so as far as we're concerned, there's been no issue to patients today. what is amazing today, though, is the amount of calls that we normally see coming in. we aren't seen today. those calls all signify that can be lower than what we what we normally do and therefore , today, you know, and therefore, today, you know, these patients will be getting better treatment and what they do any other day . meanwhile, do any other day. meanwhile, nurses in scotland will announce

strike dates for the new year. that's after the royal college of nursing members over whelming. lee rejected the latest pay deal from the scottish government. 82% voted against the offer, which ministers have said ensures nhs staff in scotland remain the best paid workers in the uk . best paid workers in the uk. well away from strikes. and a man who admitted murdering his pregnant partner and three children in derbyshire will spend the rest of his life in jail. damien bendall was given a whole life order for killing tern whole life order for killing terri harris. her children , terri harris. her children, lacey and john paul bennett and lacey's friend connie gent in killamarsh in september last yeah killamarsh in september last year. the prosecutor told the court they were brutal, vicious and cruel attacks on a defenceless woman and young children . the home secretary has children. the home secretary has been saying the government is actively considering the use of cruise ships to house asylum seekers. suella braverman says the vessels along with disused houday the vessels along with disused holiday parks and former student

halls , are among options being halls, are among options being looked to at help reduce the reliance on hotels. she told the lords justice and home affairs committee that hotels are an unacceptable cost to the taxpayer and alternative sites are needed. the home secretary also addressed the delay and sending migrants to rwanda . we sending migrants to rwanda. we are returning people almost every week to various countries around the world. we do that through scheduled flights. we charter flights. so we're in a variety of discussions with several airlines for lots of different destinations . when it different destinations. when it comes to rwanda at the moment, the delivery of rwanda, i we're moving people to rwanda is on pause. it's on hold whilst we are going through litigation. suella braverman and now a man has pleaded not guilty to the murder of olivia pratt called belle. the nine year old was shot by a gunman who chased a convicted burglar into her home

in liverpool in august. olivia's family was at liverpool crown court when thomas cashman appeared via video link. some of them were seen shaking their heads as pleas were entered and the high court has ruled the government's post—brexit settlement scheme, which would mean eu citizens have to reapply for the right to live and work in the uk. is unlawful. the independent monitoring authority, a body set up to oversee citizens rights , argues oversee citizens rights, argues britain is breaching its withdrawal agreement with the eu . home office minister simon murray says the government intends to appeal the ruling that take you up to date on tv, onune that take you up to date on tv, online and dub plus radio with gb news. back now to jeeves and cope with emily today . cope with emily today. welcome to jesus and kate with me. emily carver. so let me introduce my panel with me until

seven. we have rapper and podcaster zuby , who has come all podcaster zuby, who has come all the way into the studio. i'm used to seeing him online down the line on the screen, but here he is right with me this evening. and we also have author james bloodworth. we'll be talking your book. talking about your book. actually, little read of actually, i had a little read of the reviews it sounds quite the reviews and it sounds quite interesting to our interesting and relevant to our talks action anyway talks about strike action anyway . want to know all your . now i want to know all your thoughts throughout the show. please in touch with me. please do get in touch with me. what do you make of what's going in when comes in scotland when it comes to children able legally children being able to legally change agenda? if this change their agenda? if this bill parliament? bill goes through parliament? and you of the and what do you make of the strike action, you think? strike action, do you think? steve barclay, the health secretary, right to double secretary, is right to double down he about the nhs down when he talks about the nhs and unions putting and ambulance unions putting patients at risk? please patients lives at risk? please do get in touch with me. give views at gbnews.uk or on twitter at gb news. at cava. emily now last night, michelle and the team introduced a new graphics system which i'm going to be trying to use right now if i can just look in oh, the picture is

up on the screen now. this is a picture from claire and her daughter, who i believe sent him this beautiful looking christmas tree. she's one of our youngest viewers, and she took the time to send in a picture of her fabulous nutcracker tree . and fabulous nutcracker tree. and she stayed up to watch it. she even stayed up to watch it. however, didn't get to the however, we didn't get to the picture last night, we wanted picture last night, so we wanted to make a of playing it to make a point of playing it tonight. think if you can see tonight. i think if you can see that, it looks pretty stunning there. now we're going to go through but i to through the rest, but i need to just log into this system. they haven't taught me their well. how let me just say, how to use it. let me just say, oh, here we go. and let's have a look this one and a sent in look at this one and a sent in her picture . she says, be her picture. she says, i'll be spending here with spending my christmas here with my looks pretty my family. that looks pretty idyllic. fair . that looks idyllic. to be fair. that looks absolutely stunning. i'm not sure she is, but it looks sure where she is, but it looks like rather nice patch you've like a rather nice patch you've got and also got got there. and we've also got katie, written in. she katie, who's written in. she says is my tree. merry says this is my tree. merry christmas, emily. thank you, katie. merry christmas to you as well. mark from sheffield , well. mark from sheffield, that's rather nice. very classy looking tree. he says it's

homemade with a market tree base. that's what all the nice, too. not enough presents underneath that christmas tree i think mike says hi emily, here's my christmas tree as very nice, little bit skinny for my liking. i think i prefer bigger bottom tree it in my house personally . tree it in my house personally. and then let's look at one more. well, two more. laura our beautiful tree. massive tree at night. please do keep these coming in. it is really nice to see you at home and on radio. those listening on radar, you won't have a clue what i'm talking about, but we have people all over the country, all of viewers sending in of our viewers sending in beautiful of their beautiful pictures of their christmas trees and of their living that are looking living rooms that are looking rather that's rather festive and cosy. that's laura's tree . and lastly, last laura's tree. and lastly, last but least , laura's tree. and lastly, last but least, gillian. hi, but not least, gillian. hi, emily. our 11 foot tree and the stockings are for our dogs. happy christmas , she says. jill happy christmas, she says. jill in southport , thank you very in southport, thank you very much for sending that in. you were sending those in all yesterday , i believe, for yesterday, i believe, for michelle when she was here in the studio. so thank you very

much indeed. now we're going to go to the biggest story of the day apart from your christmas trees. of course, that's the ambulance strikes. we've been warned by the government to avoid activities. that avoid risky activities. that includes drinking , includes apparently drinking, driving, drink driving, driving, also drink driving, presumably playing certain sports. that's because there may not be ambulances to bring people to hospital if you get hurt today , steve barclay, the hurt today, steve barclay, the health secretary, went in on the unions as well. he says the ambulance unions have taken a conscious choice to inflict harm on patients . he's also opened on patients. he's also opened the door to banning powermat from taking strike action in the future . however, despite all future. however, despite all this polling from savanta shows in the case of nurses , at least, in the case of nurses, at least, pubuc in the case of nurses, at least, public support is higher than it was back when the strikes were first announced and when it comes to ambulance strikes, the majority of people, according to a yougov poll , think the a yougov poll, think that the government blame for government are to blame for striking staff , not striking ambulance staff, not the ambulance unions. so is the government got this right, james? has the government's

strategy? well, is there a strategy? well, is there a strategy ? i mean, the government strategy? i mean, the government strategy? i mean, the government strategy at the moment seems to be a very hard line strategy, seem to be kind of the margaret thatcher playbook of, oh, we won't negotiate with with you with the on pay at with the unions on pay at all. i think while that may have worked in 1980s, in aftermath in the 1980s, in the aftermath of the of discontent, of the winter of discontent, i don't think it's very good don't think it's a very good strategy see from the strategy as we see from the polling the ambulance polling with the ambulance and nurses, i mean, over nurses, because, i mean, over 50% of at present blame 50% of people at present blame the government the nurses the government for the nurses strike ambulance drivers strike in the ambulance drivers strike. one of the reasons strike. and one of the reasons for that is the nhs is already in a so when, when the in a mess. so when, when the health ministers say the old people are going to have to wait this long for an ambulance because of the strike. well, the average wait an ambulance is average wait for an ambulance is already in the already over an hour in the country in in normal times, this is one of the reasons why ambulance paramedics on ambulance paramedics are on strike because they there strike because they say there aren't staff and aren't enough staff and therefore can't get to people therefore we can't get to people in time to basically sometimes save their with the save their lives with the nurses, is massively short nurses, nhs is massively short of nurses. in ten nursing of nurses. one in ten nursing positions is unfilled at the

moment, so we don't, i don't think as a government, as a country we should be making the nhs a more inhospitable place for nurses . we need to encourage for nurses. we need to encourage more people to work in the profession because that's the only get nhs to be only way we'll get the nhs to be performing properly again. but it's difficulty seeing it's not the difficulty seeing it's not the difficulty seeing it from the government's point of at least that if they're of view at least that if they're seen give in to one group of seen to give in to one group of pubuc seen to give in to one group of public sector workers, to one union, the union that may shout the loudest or has the most pubuc the loudest or has the most public support the other end up having to give well , public support the other end up having to give well, high pay rises across the board throughout the public sector. but that would just be financially unsustainable at this point. i mean level with us. i mean, i think so the unions ask is and as it goes, as a negotiating position for 19% pay a negotiating position for 19% pay rise nobody believes they're going to going to receive that. the union themselves don't believe that that's a negotiating position. go in negotiating position. you go in with strongest hand and with your strongest hand and then you reach a kind of then you you you reach a kind of agreement where the government problem is. at the moment, i

think the government is making a mistake that it won't even mistake is that it won't even talk pay with unit, talk about pay with a unit, won't even find some middle ground. have both parties ground. so you have both parties in standoff then the in this standoff and then the people britain ones people of britain are the ones who suffer for it, seem like they've bit of don't they've taken a bit of we don't negotiate terrorists type negotiate with terrorists type line. quite line. i mean, it's quite remarkable the government remarkable that the government is messages warn is putting out messages to warn us drinking and playing us against drinking and playing certain sports . yeah, i mean, certain sports. yeah, i mean, the line not new about not negotiating with terrorists. i mean, i think even that is debateable, but we're not talking about terrorists here. you're talking about nhs workers. i don't know all the ins and outs and the details of paramedic and nurse pay, but i know certainly for doctors who work in the nhs, i know for over the course of the past several decadesin the course of the past several decades in terms of real wages and when you factor in inflation and when you factor in inflation and cost of living, it's been at best fairly stagnant if not has somewhat declined over the years . the reason why it's a struggle to get people to work as nurses

and to work as doctors and so on for the nhs in the uk is because the incentives are honestly not great at this point. i think that if you are going to have a country and a society where you do have this form of socialised health care , people can have a health care, people can have a political debate about whether or not that's that's the right way to do it. but if you have got that, then i would certainly think that you have to you have to incentivise. but instead who are working in it and yeah but zubyis are working in it and yeah but zuby is there not a moral question here regardless of how much support these workers have from the public and regardless of how reasonable their demands may seem in terms of pay, we know that they've taken real terms hits in some sections of the nhs at least is there not a moral problem with picketing your own hospital , not answering your own hospital, not answering calls to people in desperate need, putting cancer patients lives at risk and so on and so forth? surely regardless of your

pay ' forth? surely regardless of your pay , is that is a very, very pay, is that is a very, very morally dubious decision to make, surely? yeah i agree. and i can very much. this is one of those issues where i very much see both sides. i very much see both sides of it. if you're talking about emergency services, whether say this was a police or a fire department or people working paramedics, people working paramedics, people driving ambulances, then emergency services, those are things that you can suspend and disrupt because there are going to be real downstream repercussions, which potentially involve human beings, lose it, losing their lives , which has to losing their lives, which has to be avoided . so i think that be avoided. so i think that i don't know the entire back story that i don't know all the negotiations that fair enough. i don't know what things cobra meetings, i don't know what was attempted before it reached the stage essentially. i certainly think that you can diplomat quickly discuss and resolve these things on from both sides before it gets to a stage of

where we are now. a few days before christmas. yeah. and you have emergency service workers going on strike. i mean, james, i don't like the language that came out of steve barclay's mouth today saying, you know , mouth today saying, you know, these workers have made a conscious decision to put patients lives at risk . i mean, patients lives at risk. i mean, it might be true, but it certainly ups the ante and makes perhaps what makes workers within the nhs feel more hostile to the government. and can that be a good thing? because i'm looking at i think we have a bigger problem here and this is the only way we're only going to get to solve these pay issues is that we have an absolutely massive budget for the nhs, 170 billion. i think the last year was a huge amount of money. it goes up every year regardless of what people may say to the country . why on earth is not country. why on earth is not more of this money going to where people want it? the frontline staff , nurses, doctors frontline staff, nurses, doctors and hospital beds? i mean, this is this is part of the irony of this this issue with with under

recruitment of nurses , for recruitment of nurses, for example, in the nhs spends, i think it's close to 10 billion a year on agency staff because if you bring in agency workers , you you bring in agency workers, you have to pay them more than you do for nhs employees. that must wind up nurses a lot who see an agency worker come in on three times what they are earning or whatever. yeah, and i don't think it would cost the nhs 1.7 think it would cost the nhs1.7 million to 1.7 billion. sorry to give nurses the inflation busting pay increase they're asking for so you don't you don't have to go up to 19% pay rise, but you'd actually save money if you just paid them what they were asking for or something to that. because something close to that. because you have then employ you wouldn't have to then employ all staff. so do all these agency staff. so i do see is a kind of see that there is a kind of logical argument it, and logical argument behind it, and i short term thinking on i think a short term thinking on the part of the government that says, you know, we should get rid nurses bursary, we rid of the nurses bursary, we shouldn't a pay rise. shouldn't give us a pay rise. but same time, you but then at the same time, you do have to get all these agency staff in to cover them. you end up spending more money in the long has long term. now, zuby john has written in using the new

written in i'm using the new system so with me. system here, so bear with me. johnis system here, so bear with me. john is written in. he says, emily, the strikers are putting lives risk. not have the lives at risk. why not have the dispute in june and not at the height of the flu season? now that's true . it's hard not that's very true. it's hard not to think that these trade unions are choosing a particularly difficult and important time in people's calendar in order to in order to inflict as much damage order to inflict as much damage or pressure on the government as possible . that's the morality possible. that's the morality question, isn't it ? it is. it's question, isn't it? it is. it's such a complicated issue. i think, with strikes in general, even if we go outside of the realm of the world of health care , regardless of what people care, regardless of what people think about strikes, the purpose of them, of course, is to cause a level of disruption . that is a level of disruption. that is the intention . now, if you're the intention. now, if you're talking about people becoming sick or having accidents and emergencies, that kind of thing. and then of course there is in additional moral question about this , all about the about the this, all about the about the timing, about the action itself

. my gut feeling is that both parties need to be adults and come to the table and talk and negotiate and not just be putting out, you know, soundees putting out, you know, soundbites , attacking each other soundbites, attacking each other and accusing one another of things. i'm i don't know. this isn't my . no, i know. it's all isn't my. no, i know. it's all your area expertise. and i'm sure when we come to the scottish gender debate, you're going to have to impassioned, impassioned knowledge on that, of course. but i do think it's interesting to get your view on this nonetheless for sure, because , james, it's very because, james, it's very difficult for the government because if they've decided that they budge on this pay they cannot budge on this pay offer , then what are they offer, then what are they supposed to do about from double down? i mean, they have to change their mind. they should they should negotiate. i mean , they should negotiate. i mean, like these things can be negotiated. i think adults i mean, i think that's what the pubuc mean, i think that's what the public wants see is not public wants to see is not necessarily support any necessarily they support any

particular groups demands for pay particular groups demands for pay that they see that pay rises is that they see that negotiation way forward negotiation is the way forward in is the to in negotiation is the way to stop strikes the nurses i mean two years ago we were on our doorsteps clapping carers so doorsteps clapping for carers so to and over the last 12 to speak. and over the last 12 years nurses have received real terms cuts. so i don't think terms pay cuts. so i don't think it's question for it's out of the question for them ask for some kind of pay them to ask for some kind of pay rise, that they've rise, considering that they've been covid been dealing with covid patients, . they worked patients, flu cases. they worked incredibly hard. we that incredibly hard. we should that they least deserve they should at least deserve negotiation. worth negotiation. it's also worth beanng negotiation. it's also worth bearing mind many people bearing in mind that many people across the economy have had real terms pay cuts. unfortunately in this country due to economic policy, perhaps wages have been quite stagnant across the board. and actually up until this year , workers were on , public sector workers were on average higher those average paid higher than those in private sector . that's in the private sector. that's worth for balance. worth noting, just for balance. sorry just going to go sorry zero. i'm just going to go to views here . donald seems to some views here. donald seems to some views here. donald seems to agree with what we were saying earlier. there it is on the screen. emily, the nhs is free at point of views but it is not free and nothing is. yes, worth remembering. we all pay for it. we need a root and branch overhaul of what it will

provide and to whom. and you don't give any more detail on what mean that. but what you mean by that. but i certainly would agree that we need more drastic action when it comes to the clearly it's comes to the nhs. clearly it's not sustainable if we're pumping. so much money into it and getting pretty poor and we're getting pretty poor outcomes mismanagement. outcomes. it's mismanagement. i don't believe that the money is there, the money is there. the amount of money that is being wasted to the tune of billions every year on various things that are unimportant. and that money like the manager of lived experiences which we saw in the nick 750 this there are so much wastage in these entities that's their reality of it and it's also very opaque unless you have friends or family who work within the nhs and you listen to them and hear certain stories , them and hear certain stories, there's not a lot of transparency of exactly what's going on. where is that money going? that hundred 70 billion budget? i'd to see a very budget? i'd love to see a very clear detailed breakdown of clear and detailed breakdown of where all that money where where's all that money going on that transparency point

. martin has said, if we just get that please, please , get that up, please, please, please, can someone tell me why unions and government can't negotiate forum so we negotiate in an open forum so we can all see who is to blame for causing problems and delays now that could get a bit fiery, a bit punchy, i imagine, with some of union bosses . i of those trade union bosses. i do think it's worth reminding. we talk about the need to negotiate, etc, etc. but some of these very much out these unions are very much out and out socially . so they do and out socially. so they do have a political motivation as well as trying to get the best pay well as trying to get the best pay off their workers. they pay off for their workers. they would very much like to see on the whole, i would imagine would like to see the conservative government go as quickly as government go down as quickly as possible. yeah, i mean, the royal college of nurses is not a labour affiliated organisation. they're they're not you they're not, they're not you know a marxist or know, it's not like a marxist or communist organisation. they just of standing up for just kind of standing up for their members, the members of if you at rmt, they're all you look at the rmt, they're all members of the communist party. yeah, i mean in yeah, i know. i agree. i mean in their up, are people their line up, there are people in the in the rnc who, you know, support and believe this

support cuba and believe in this kind paradise. and kind of socialist paradise. and i think that's that's nonsense. but not affiliated with but they're not affiliated with the example. the labour party, for example. it's college of it's and the royal college of nurses, example, is fairly nurses, for example, is a fairly moderate organisation and it's representing members . representing their members. well, i think there's an awful lot of placards waving socialist workers of the world unite at any of these picket lines. i mean, they're like they're like cockroaches, like everywhere. they everything . so perhaps they do everything. so perhaps there that anyway , we're there is that anyway, we're going to move on coming up. there's lot of bluebirds there's been a lot of bluebirds around and promised around and it promised the question, britain on the way question, is britain on the way down? we'll discuss the uk is down? we'll discuss if the uk is a in decline, we a country in decline, are we going to dogs after the .

break yes. welcome back to dewbs& co with me, emily carver now with me until 7 pm. i will reintroduce my panel, which is rapper and broadcaster zuby and

author james bloodworth here with me till seven. so lots of you were getting in touch about those strikes, whether the government is to blame , whether government is to blame, whether the unions are to blame, whether the unions are to blame, whether the nhs itself is to blame for what's on. james says the what's going on. james says the government, let me just get it up screen for you there . up on the screen for you there. yes, there we go, james. the government had us clapping for the nhs, locking down to protect the nhs, locking down to protect the nhs. surely now it's time the nhs. surely now it's time the government stood up and did their bit to protect the nhs. now i wonder what he means by that. does he mean put more money into the nhs? does he mean you know, support the strikers , you know, support the strikers, give them the pay demands that pay give them the pay demands that pay there asking pay offers that there asking for? well, so sure, we need a bit more detail from you on that. james and kevin says nurses could run the country , nurses could run the country, but msps couldn't do nurses jobs. go figure . well, i don't jobs. go figure. well, i don't know if we have any nurse employees. perhaps we do. perhaps we have one or two nmps who have been nurses. but that's that true. would you rather nurses or politicians were paid

more? i'm sure probably a majority of the public would like to see nurses paid more than their politicians, but perhaps that's never going to happen. and chris said something nice to me. he said, don't apologise for having to stand in for michel. you're a class act. regards, chris. thank you very much indeed . now we're going to much indeed. now we're going to be moving on to another topic, which is well, it's got something to do with the strikes in light of the strike action. and of course the perpetual crisis nhs , rampant crisis in the nhs, rampant inflation, porous borders, inflation, our porous borders, lots of people seem to think britain has seen its best days. do you think britain has gone to the dogs ? columnist at the the dogs? columnist at the times, danny finkelstein , has times, danny finkelstein, has said today that we shouldn't fall for gloomy tales of british decline and that we can turn things around . xavi finkelstein things around. xavi finkelstein has written of margaret thatcher britain she felt was a great nafion britain she felt was a great nation of course it could revive. she was right then. is the case now, is he right ? are the case now, is he right? are we just going through a bit of a

dodgy patch? i think we're going through a correction . a through a correction. a correction. i think there's a correction. i think there's a correction. one thing i do certainly notice in the uk and i say this as someone who travels all around the world, you all have a lot more. i'm all over the place. one thing i sense in the place. one thing i sense in the uk and also in various other western countries is deep demoralisation and a malaise . demoralisation and a malaise. it's a sort of stagnation, a sense that when i talk to people , i feel like a lot of people of our generation and perhaps the one above are not very confident that their children or future children are going to have a better life and quality and standard of living as to what they had. i think that you can generally gauge the level of optimism in a country by whether or not people think that the future is going to be better than the present . i future is going to be better than the present. i hear future is going to be better than the present . i hear people than the present. i hear people saying that they don't even want to bring children into the

world. right now we're bringing children into the world, into the country because don't the country because they don't know , you know, that's regard know, you know, that's regard and i'm seeing this from people on both sides of the political aisle as well. perhaps they have different . what some different concerns. what some people the climate people are saying to the climate is going you know, the world is going to, you know, the world is going to, you know, the world is going to burn up in a fireball levels are fireball and the sea levels are going to rise and everything is going to rise and everything is going to rise and everything is going to be on we're going to be on have we're destroying planet. so destroying the planet. so i don't to add other don't want to add to that. other people are saying, you the people are saying, you know, the culture society the culture and the society and the morals and all that is declining. and so therefore, i also don't want that. also don't want to do that. that's a very good point. there seems me everyone, seems to me that everyone, wherever the wherever you are on the political spectrum, whatever wherever you are on the polit lived jectrum, whatever wherever you are on the polit lived experiences, tever your lived experiences, thinks the to the dogs the country is, go to the dogs in a different and unique way. some concerned that some people are concerned that there's much wukari there's too much wukari infiltrating our institutions. some worried about some people are worried about immigration. the immigration. that that yes, the fact seem to be fact that our borders seem to be more than a sieve, as more porous than a sieve, as i said at the start. and then some people, of course, are worried about direction, economy about the direction, the economy is what do you think? is going in. what do you think? yeah, i mean, you can i think you can separate two you can separate those two things some ways. i mean,

things in some ways. i mean, there's of of there's a lot of kind of cultural arguments at the moment. can say, you moment. so you can say, you know, isn't too know, his work isn't going too far. sometimes think it is far. sometimes i think it is some i think it's not just a bit. i mean, look, look what's going into scotland, going on in scotland. i mean, i guess scotland. yeah. i mean, i guess we'll on in a minute. we'll touch on that in a minute. but think the economic stuff, but i think the economic stuff, it does feel like britain's in decline. britain a decline. i think britain is a great not of the great country. i'm not of the idea britain can get better idea that britain can get better and ifs idea that britain can get better and it's not a blip. and that it's not a blip. but i think lots of stuff we're seeing now is a product of short now is, is a product of short term among politicians. term thinking among politicians. so, look at the energy so, i mean, look at the energy crisis, for example. that's partly response partly a response to the situation ukraine, but it's situation in ukraine, but it's also because i mean, clegg also because i mean, nick clegg in that we shouldn't in 2010 said that we shouldn't build power build more nuclear power stations will only stations because they will only come only come come on, they will only come onune come on, they will only come online in 2022. so, you know , online in 2022. so, you know, why should we worry about that far the future nuclear far in the future about nuclear power? study ? and, you power? in the study? and, you know, would have made a big know, that would have made a big difference britain's energy difference to britain's energy supply. those issues supply. i think those issues around migration. so that one of the reasons we have such big migration, black back logs, so there's who here in there's people who came here in 2018 haven't had

2018 who still haven't had the claims processed, whether they go can stay. go or whether they can stay. because the idea in government was that you can just cut the budgets of these budgets of some of these departments make departments and it won't make any difference processing any difference to the processing of people have of these of these people have anticipated tens of anticipated that tens of thousands people get thousands of people would get into the into dinghies and cross the channel. i britain , channel. i mean, britain, britain's the fifth richest country the world. people country in the world. people will to come here. will always want to come here. same states. same in the united states. people will always to get people will always try to get into united states into the united states from south because want south america because they want to this lifestyle that we to live this lifestyle that we are enough to in the are lucky enough to live in the west. so i think they should west. and so i think they should have anticipated that have at least anticipated that there aspects there were certain aspects of government can't government that you can't just cut and it won't make any difference. i think i think it was a mistake. and i think was a mistake. yes. and i think we're the consequences was a mistake. yes. and i think wethat. the consequences was a mistake. yes. and i think wethat. no the consequences was a mistake. yes. and i think wethat. no quite consequences was a mistake. yes. and i think wethat. no quite aonsequences was a mistake. yes. and i think wethat. no quite a lotequences was a mistake. yes. and i think wethat. no quite a lot of|ences of that. no quite a lot of budgets. did the same with the police say you know, the same or were just not increased, but the border has lost jobs in border force has lost jobs in previous. i mean, the border has lost police. so lost jobs, has fewer police. so police saying that police are saying that burglaries not being burglaries are not being investigated. stick to investigated. they stick to easier crimes like investigating what on twitter. what people say on twitter. i think think i agree think i think i think i agree that that's that's nuts. i think

we can talk we can argue about different cultural things, which we can talk we can argue about differeof cultural things, which we can talk we can argue about differeof cu|would hings, which we can talk we can argue about differeof cu|would probablyich we can talk we can argue about differeof cu|would probably agree many of us would probably agree a crazy right now, a kind of a bit crazy right now, but i think the idea that you could just cut all these budgets, state to the budgets, cut the state to the bone, wouldn't make any bone, and it wouldn't make any difference. i think it was a mistake when i actually take the view that liz truss, for her view that liz truss, for all her flaws, all her flaws, flaws, zuby, for all her flaws, she did strongly believe that britain could do better and in her mind that meant leaving more money in people's pockets , i.e. money in people's pockets, i.e. taxing them less and looking at which regular asians we could change to free up business and enterprise and make britain a welcoming place for entrepreneurs and people who can create wealth , which of course create wealth, which of course supports our public services like the nhs. do you think that we missed a trick there ? i don't we missed a trick there? i don't know if it was specific with some of those ideas, absolutely. and i'm i'm someone who's in that category. i'm an entrepreneur myself . i run a entrepreneur myself. i run a small business and i look at various places of the world and

i'm like, okay, where which what is offering me which place is offering what makes most what works for me? and there are millions of people in that position. and right now there are many places that have a better offering than what they are. sorry to interrupt you, zippy, but which places do you think are better than britain to live in florida ? i don't want to live in florida? i don't want to say better. it better to live is a it's a kind of a loaded question because there are so many factors easier to get on and have a good i would say i'd say if you're someone who's an who's entrepreneurial minded and interested in innovation , i interested in innovation, i would certainly say some of the red states in the usa, florida, tennessee, texas have a better offering. i would say the gulf states, i'd say places like dubal states, i'd say places like dubai, doha , those have dubai, doha, those have extraordinary low tax rates, if any. and there's a lot of innovation and opportunity going on there. they're creating incentives to draw entrepreneurial minded people, to draw small and medium

businesses, and to really grow that. whereas there are also places, i mean, in the uk corporation tax rates are going up next and so is it. james, what do you think? i don't know if you have a family or not, but i think there's quite a there is a view out there among people of childbearing age that they're very worried about the future, not least because they themselves may not even be on themselves may not even be on the housing ladder yet. yeah i mean, i don't have children, but i mean, i can see i mean, i live in london, i rent in london, so i can see, for example, the crisis around housing and it feels moment. so it's feels at the moment. so it's very private companies very hard for private companies to build houses because there are many regulations. there are too many regulations. there are too many regulations. there are many too much are too many there's too much kind of giving in to nimbyism from the political class. so i mean, to me, that's not a left or right wing argument. i think we need more social housing, but i also think we need to free up planning laws so that private companies can also increase the supply houses. i think supply of houses. so i think across there's

across the board there's a complex i don't complex problem there. i don't think necessarily right think it's necessarily a right or but i mean, it or left thing, but i mean, it does there is sense, as you does there is a sense, as you said as well, that britain is not the necessarily not necessarily the place you would want to bring children with entrepreneurs. i the entrepreneurs. i mean, the infrastructure in britain, broadband, example , is much broadband, for example, is much poorer than one in the united poorer than one up in the united states, everywhere it states, where everywhere it seems you can you can have seems you can you can have access seems you can you can have access to free wi fi. whereas here, you go outside the here, if you go outside the city, almost nonexistent. city, it's almost nonexistent. let to our let me just apologise to our viewers home. you viewers sitting at home. you know, the up to know, it's the run up to christmas. and we're talking about country is about whether the country is going themselves of going to the themselves of i'm hoping bring some hoping we can bring some christmas cheer least we christmas cheer at least we showed a lovely of showed you a lovely pictures of christmas at the start of christmas trees at the start of the show. so there was that to keep you cheery. perhaps you disagree with my panellists and think britain will great think that britain will be great britain more, after britain once more, just after this little . now, coming up, a this little. now, coming up, a pretty disturbing story in my view. another one, the scottish government to allow government is poised to allow children as young as 16 to legally change the gender without even a medical diagnosis. is this a case of

live and let live or is there something more sinister going on? we'll get stuck into that debate straight after the break. stay tuned .

yes, welcome back to dewbs& co with me, emily carver with me until seven. my lovely panel, rapper and podcaster zuby and author james bloodworth. now, authorjames bloodworth. now, you have been you've been getting in touch throughout the show. chrissy has said , let's show. chrissy has said, let's get that up on the screen for you. chrissy has said, emily, we can find millions for ukraine and millions for illegal immigrants, but we can't give the nurses a good pay rise. i mean , some people would say mean, some people would say that's a bit of what about free? but actually you make a fair point is simply point. is this simply a political choice from the government ? we have found huge government? we have found huge amounts of money to send abroad , rightly or wrongly, and huge amounts of money to on

amounts of money to spend on keeping illegal migrants in hotel accommodation . so i think hotel accommodation. so i think you raise a fair point, to be honest. nigel says train more nurses. not necessarily just at universities. that's another good point . and it's something good point. and it's something my mother actually used to say to me. she said, why do nurses need to have a full on degree? but guess we'd have to ask but i guess we'd have to ask a nurse that. please do let me know are a nurse sitting know if you are a nurse sitting at home. please do let me know if you think a degree should be necessary. and then this is moving on swiftly our next moving on swiftly to our next topic. actually graham said, allowing make their allowing children to make their gender without any gender decisions without any medical consultation is absolute is absolute madness . this is not is absolute madness. this is not what the people want their government to be doing . yes. is government to be doing. yes. is actually definitely not what the scottish people want their government to be doing. about two thirds or more of voters have said that they absolutely do support the change in do not support the change in legislation . so nicholas legislation. so nicholas sturgeon perhaps frustrated that she can't sell it, scotland as an independent country, she's

instead planned plans to let teenagers declare themselves the opposite gender. the lowering of the age limit is part of the snp's controversial plans to reform the gender recognition act. it will allow men and women to legally change their gender without even needing a medical certification. it's not clear when the final vote in the scottish assembly will now take place due to the number of amendments being proposed. as you can probably imagine, james, there's opposition to these there's huge opposition to these proposals from women's groups, among others. do you think the snp pushing things a little snp is pushing things a little bit too i don't understand bit too far? i don't understand why they're doing this. yeah, i mean, do think pushing this mean, i do think pushing this too the opposition too far. i think the opposition from women's groups, women's groups warranted. i think groups is warranted. i think there's lots wrong with with this with push. i mean, this with this push. i mean, personally, know, i support this with this push. i mean, perrrights', know, i support this with this push. i mean, perrrights of know, i support this with this push. i mean, perrrights of transow, i support this with this push. i mean, per: rights of trans people. jport this with this push. i mean, perrrights of trans people. l)0|’l the rights of trans people. i support equality. i do support adults who , you know, who have adults who, you know, who have gender dysphoria seeking treatment for that . and once treatment for that. and once they've had therapy , once they've had therapy, once they've had therapy, once they've had therapy, once they've had been diagnosed with gender dysphoria being prescribed and if they prescribed hormones, and if they

want to have sex reassignment surgery. i'm a liberal. i believe in a free society. they should to do that. should be able to do that. but i think it is a very different proposition when it comes to children. can be children. i think people can be teenagers be incredibly teenagers can be incredibly confused their sexuality, confused about their sexuality, can incredibly about can be incredibly confused about their . teenage years their identity. teenage years are your identity is are when your identity is actually being formed. i don't think should necessarily. think they should necessarily. i mean , think first stop mean, i think the first stop should therapy . i think the should be therapy. i think the first should talking to first stop should be talking to people, out their people, figuring out their identity. then when identity. and then if when they're adult, still they're an adult, they still want transition want to pursue gender transition and only then should they have access to mind and body altering hormones that know that decision to go on. hormones can make you sterile . i think that should be sterile. i think that should be something that if someone wants to do that, the small percentage of who do want change of people who do want to change genden of people who do want to change gender, able to gender, they should be able to do adults. but i think do that as adults. but i think it's very tricky to allow children to do that. yeah, you raised some decent there raised some decent points there for sure, do you want to? for sure, zuby. do you want to? the difficulty is many of us are liberal minded, that we have a live and let live attached. huge. but do we think the law

should accommodate people who believe in believe that they were born in the sex ? or is this the the wrong sex? or is this the madness of crowds we denying biological reality ? i think this biological reality? i think this is complete insanity that we can. and if we're talking about the so—called decline of britain, this is the this particularly is the kind of stuff that is deeply concerning to someone like myself in millions of other people out there. you tell me what gets you there. you tell me what gets you the most , because this there. you tell me what gets you the most, because this is a fundamental attack on truth . you fundamental attack on truth. you can't change the sex that you were. you can't change your sex. and you can't certainly cannot change the sex that you were born as if you were born a male. you in male. if you you were born in male. if you were a female, you're born were born a female, you're born a female. allowing people to go and their birth and alter their birth certificate because they certificate is because they themselves feel a certain way . themselves feel a certain way. whether they're a child, whether they're an that's a fundamental attack on truth itself. that's an attack on biology itself. before you even get into all of the potential on women from sports to prisons to private

areas and stuff like that. it's areas and stuff like that. it's a fundamental attack on the truth. i take your point. definitely and i agree to a large extent, but what do we do with people who are genuinely suffering from gender dysphoria ? i was interviewing a young lady who's at university now who hadnt lady who's at university now who hadn't been diagnosed with autism at the time , but now autism at the time, but now knows she's autistic . and she knows she's autistic. and she almost got to the stage where she was about to have well , she was about to have well, irreversible surgery . well, to irreversible surgery. well, to change into a male , what do we change into a male, what do we do about this? what is the how far should we indulge it? i don't. why what is the problem that we are trying to solve here? i think before we get into the nitty gritty of the laws and this, then my big question is what is the problem that we are trying to resolve? people talk about rights. what human rights? what rights do people not already have? who is not who

does not have rights? everyone. people say rights, right? it's like everyone already has equal rights. regardless of how you identify names, people who are suffering from gender dysphoria and believe that they were born in the wrong body, want to have that legal recognition as soon as possible so they don't feel like outsiders in the rest of society . yeah, i mean, i think society. yeah, i mean, i think it's fair to say. yeah i think so. i mean, i think if we if we strip it down just to biology, look, you can't change your sex. you can change your gender, but you can't change your sex at the same time. you know, if somebody has, you know, undergone hormone treatment, hrt , they've had a treatment, hrt, they've had a had a sex change. i don't have a problem personally using the pronouns now as they would like me to use, because just courtesy it just out of courtesy. i do think there's an issue with, say, a prison cell. you a male who's transitioned to become a woman. they commit some some

crime and they're put in prison. should they therefore go in a male prison or a female prison? i think look, i think it's this complex. if someone has gone through, if someone's going in, gone through the transition or transition, they would be vulnerable prison. but vulnerable in a male prison. but do necessarily think they do i necessarily think they should into a female prison? should go into a female prison? no, there are safety no, i think there are safety issues that well. the issues with that as well. the point complex and point is it's complex and unjust. the scottish government just ramming through this legislation no legislation as if there's no complexity there complexity to it, as if there won't say i identify as won't be who say i identify as woman just go into women's woman just to go into women's changing rooms , just to go into changing rooms, just to go into women's toilets, just to attack women. is a massive that women. that is a massive that a massive it is a massive massive issue. it is a massive issue. amazing how issue. and it's amazing how people or people deny the realities or deny may well be deny that there may well be a trade offs it comes to trade offs when it comes to different groups. right. i mean the tory msp russell finlay he proposed people on sex proposed that people on the sex offenders register able offenders register are not able to a gender recognition to get a gender recognition certificate. due to the fact that the document is obtainable without any medical diagnosis and of course could lead to essentially men being in. look, let's be real. let's vote down. let's be real. this is this is

common sense. and there have already been situations that have happened specifically in the where suddenly women are the usa where suddenly women are starting to get pregnant in prison. how is that happening? let's think about this. all of this do i have evidence it's out that you can google it? well, google it's a good thing. in new jersey in particular, there were several women and this happened after a male was transferred into a female prison. of course , like this. i mean , it almost , like this. i mean, it almost sounds like a south park episode. i think ten years ago it would be people wouldn't even be able to wrap their heads around fact that people are around the fact that people are considering be considering that that should be an theidea considering that that should be an the idea that males an idea. the idea that males should be competing with females in and in sports, in schools and universities and professional levels. complete it's levels. it's complete it's complete it is. and complete insanity. it is. and i'd also i'd also go further and this the of this is also this the impact of this is also the impact of this is very one way, because this going to way, because this is going to hurt and women. yeah, hurt girls and women. yeah, right. men are generally not overly worried these overly worried about these things going to things because no one's going to transition man start transition to a man and start taking records and taking away male records and putting risk or anything

putting men at risk or anything like it's a way threat like that. it's a one way threat and think the whole thing, and i think the whole thing, honestly, the word is overused, but think it's deeply but i think it's deeply misogynistic. you, misogynistic. thank you, zeba and very concerned and james. i'm very concerned about who about young girls as well, who there be some kind of there seems to be some kind of social in schools social contagion in schools where girls suffering from where girls are suffering from gender dysphoria. and it seems to be growing and growing every yeah to be growing and growing every year. i'm not sure what that is all about. now, coming up, apparently youngest among apparently the youngest among us, gen z, all hoping for us, that's gen z, all hoping for a dry christmas. are young adults giving up on the and why.

i'm just reading through all of your messages that talk what's going on in scotland in terms of men being able to self declare their gender as a woman. if this bill goes through today, sean says as a husband and

grandparents, two girls, god help any man identifying as a woman entering any female only space.if woman entering any female only space. if any of my female family members are present in it, well, there's a down to earth response to the conversation. welcome back to dewbs& co with emily carver. with me of course, until my panel with me of course, until my panel, rapper and podcast zuby and authorjames bloodworth on my right . so and authorjames bloodworth on my right. so while many of us be raising a fleet on the 25th, there is a new generation of revellers who are not so much revelling . they'll be passing up revelling. they'll be passing up the alcohol together. more than half of young people are dreaming of a dry christmas this yeah dreaming of a dry christmas this year. the trend is year. it seems the trend is being driven generation being driven by generation z, those born between 1997 and 2012. now neither of us on the panel 2012. now neither of us on the panel, none of us on the panel are gen z. i don't believe i think we're probably all millennials do think now . zuby, millennials do think now. zuby, i read in your briefing notes that you are a teetotaller . yes. that you are a teetotaller. yes. is this for health reasons? do you think this is a brilliant

thing that young people are injecting the booze? i'm i'm a big fan of this. i was a little bit concerned about gen z, the zoomers, but this is heartening. and i saw that the majority are saying that doing for saying that they're doing it for health reasons. i think that health reasons. so i think that that i some that is positive. i had some concerns that maybe they were just ipads and social just so into ipads and social media not wanting to go media and not wanting to go out and social interaction and engage social interaction that maybe that's why. yes, but it seems like they're being health conscious , you know, health conscious, you know, ultimately alcohol is a poison. it does cause a lot of problems. i'm not saying people are you know, if people want to drink, they can drink. but i sensitive to some people. a lot of people. yes, people. so yes, millions of people. so i think fact that they don't think the fact that they don't want drink is good. well, want to drink is good. well, there we go. something very positive to say about gen z and z. these opinion, james, apparently, according to the statistics that were included in this report , six in ten said this report, six in ten said that health reasons were the main factor. just over half said was is it better you was a factor. is it better you call it is poor regan a bounce when you're if you're that

young, when you're trying to buy around for your mates or just stuff forego it for health reasons because it's just so expensive. yeah i mean, it depends what you want, what you're willing to drink. i mean, i can still get like i think you can still get like cans of special brew in the supermarket. that's supermarket. i mean, that's people roads thing people on my roads first thing in the morning. drinking, though. so wetherspoons is still good value. yeah, i mean, i drink, i am. i'm also health drink, but i am. i'm also health conscious, so i don't drink that much. and think that young much. and i think that young people conscious. people are health conscious. i mean, people to mean, more young people go to the i think that's a the gym and i think that's a really positive thing. but i think, you know, i also do think there's a bit a hangover from there's a bit of a hangover from lockdowns, hangover, to lockdowns, fuel hangover, not to not pun, but fewer not to use a pun, but fewer people going out. i think. people are going out. i think. any more inclusive? yeah. i mean, i've noticed just with with and harder with friends and it's harder sometimes to come sometimes to get people to come out because they've so out now because they've got so used with used to staying indoors with lockdown, order food lockdown, they order food online, they do the dating onune online, they do the dating online it's kind of people online and it's kind of people have much more have become more have much more social anxiety think if social anxiety and i think if it's partly driven by that it's partly it's driven by that i that is shame. i think i think that is a shame. i think that's probably got a lot to do with it. zuby unfortunately, i

mean, health concerns definitely, you know, there are so health influences, you so many health influences, you do quite a of health do quite a lot of health influences on yourself, encouraging back encouraging people to take back control but you control of their bodies. but you know, young people actually know, our young people actually being bit reclusive and they being a bit reclusive and they can't be bothered to out and, can't be bothered to go out and, see friends, and they're see their friends, and they're hardly stop boozing at hardly likely to stop boozing at home well i think home alone. well i think actually the lockdown actually during the lockdown penods actually during the lockdown periods of people were periods, a lot of people were boozing at home, which was a whole problem itself . so whole problem in itself. so i think it's good. older people, though, perhaps older people. i think it's good that that is that's and i also that's declining. and i also think it's good for people to realise that you don't need to dnnk realise that you don't need to drink a tonne of alcohol in order to socialise and to have fun celebrate . i think fun and to celebrate. i think culturally there's such a deep connection in here with that here and some other in some here and in some other in some countries. but i'd like to see that super tight bond broken. i think it's good for people to know that they don't have to if. they're going out. they don't have to drink. right. they don't have to drink. right. they don't have in hand. if you have to go hand in hand. if you choose you want to, then choose to and you want to, then apparently there's a bit of. just to finish very quickly,

because to because we're going to have to go nigel farage just one go to nigel farage in just one moment. know, the chief moment. but, you know, the chief of free thompson of alcohol free winery, thompson in amanda thompson, said in scot, amanda thompson, said younger people realise that they don't to drunk on don't want to be caught drunk on camera and gen z have learned the seeing their the lessons after seeing their parents embarrass parents and elders embarrass them virus themselves. them with the virus themselves. so this is all about so finally, this is all about not embarrassing yourself like your parents, which is a bit harsh. i'm going to have to say thank to you, james. james thank you to you, james. james bloodworth, author zuby, of bloodworth, author and zuby, of course, also rappeh course, podcast and also rappeh thank much for turning thank you very much for turning up this evening to help along with covering jeeves and co. so i'll be back tomorrow as well on friday night. i'll be back tomorrow as well on friday night . coverage is i'll be back tomorrow as well on friday night. coverage is coming up at the top of the hour. nigel, what's coming up on the show ? thank you. well, most of show? thank you. well, most of our country today sees an ambulance strike . and if people ambulance strike. and if people die directly as a result of it, whose fault is it? is it the ambulance drivers , the trade ambulance drivers, the trade unions, or is it the government? thatis unions, or is it the government? that is our big moral debate and dilemma. this evening. all of that coming up after the all

important weather . good evening, important weather. good evening, alex deakin here with your latest weather update from the met office fine day across parts of the north tomorrow with sunny spells, but it is going to be a north south split. misty, murky conditions of the conditions across much of the south at times south with rain at times courtesy of low pressure systems and weather moving in and weather fronts. moving in this still bringing this low is still bringing plenty of heavy showers across scotland , parts of northern scotland, parts of northern england. this evening and tightly packed icy bars as well. still very blustery, but the showers fading through showers be fading here through the night . will keep some going the night. will keep some going in scotland , rain in northern scotland, rain moving more across parts moving in once more across parts of southern quite of southern england. quite misty, condition is here misty, murky condition is here as some foggy conditions, as well. some foggy conditions, especially on the higher routes , staying quite mild in the south with clear spells for the north. 2 to 4 degrees celsius. but most places above freezing to start thursday , a grey day. to start thursday, a grey day. then, of course, the south tomorrow with some rain and drizzle at times. some of that rain drifting into parts of northern england for much of scotland. northern ireland, a dry today. there will scotland. northern ireland, a dry be today. there will scotland. northern ireland, a dry be someoday. there will scotland. northern ireland, a

dry be some showers, re will scotland. northern ireland, a dry be some showers, chiefly still be some showers, chiefly over northern scotland. and as the northerly winds set in here once more, going to once more, it's going to turn colder. the showers start colder. so the showers may start to fall sleet and snow, but to fall as sleet and snow, but chance of further south chance of that further south with digits , 11 or in with double digits, 11 or 12 in the south. so miles, but murky and that murky weather persists dunng and that murky weather persists during thursday evening. again, some foggy conditions on some of the higher routes leading into a few more showers keeping going across scotland and northern ireland into friday. but the main focus for friday will be this band of rain sweeping in, lots of people hitting the roads on course. so just on friday, of course. so just bear mind. going to bear that in mind. going to generate spray and generate a lot of spray and surface water and still poor visibility some of higher visibility on some of the higher routes, especially is that routes, especially there is that rain then by the end of rain band. then by the end of friday spreads northern friday spreads into northern england ireland england and northern ireland behind well turn behind it's may well turn brighter friday afternoon brighter during friday afternoon . still pretty here as well . still pretty mild here as well and fairly further and still fairly cold further north. that contrast for the north. and that contrast for the next few days will continue. but the milder air will win out for the milder air will win out for the north as we head the the north as we head into the christmas period perhaps christmas period before perhaps turning as we head turning colder as we head towards boxing day. but for now .

tens of thousands of ambulance workers are striking today. if people die, whose fault is it? is it the ambulance workers, the unions, or is it the government 7 unions, or is it the government ? that's our moral debate this evening . we'll have a look at evening. we'll have a look at suella braverman contemplating using old ships to house channel migrants. is it really going to happen? and andrew maguire joins me on talking points. our money used to be backed by gold. it hasn't been for the last 50 years. what does that meant for our money and what will happen now to the price of gold ? all of now to the price of gold? all of that coming up in a moment. first, though, the news with poly first, though, the news with

poly metal has