tens of thousands of ambulance workers are striking today. if people die, whose fault is it.7 is it the ambulance workers, the unions, or is it the government 7 unions, or is it the government .7 that's our moral debate this evening . we'll have a look at evening. we'll have a look at suella braverman contemplating using old ships to house channel migrants. is it really going to happen? and andrew maguire joins me on talking points. our money used to be backed by gold. it hasn't been for the last 50 years. what does that meant for our money and what will happen

now to the price of gold ? all of now to the price of gold? all of that coming up in a moment. first, though, the news with poly first, though, the news with poly metal has. nigel, thank you and good evening to you. ambulance have been reacting angrily after the government accused them of making a conscious choice to harm by going out on strike . meanwhile going out on strike. meanwhile everyone is watching while that and we want to where are when ? and we want to where are when? well, the health secretary steve barclay claims unions are refusing to work with the government at a national level on how paramedics will cover emergency calls during strike action. the unite union says the health secretary's comments are a blatant lie. the gmb union describes it as insulting and unison. general secretary says mr. barclay is refusing to even discuss pay . we sit down in a discuss pay. we sit down in a room, you have a bit of give and

take and both sides. i'm getting nothing from him or from this government. all they're saying to me is we negotiate to me is we can't negotiate about pay and where does that leave us? one of the reasons the ambulance service, the nhs is in such a dire state is because they haven't the they haven't invested in the workforce. leave those workforce. so people leave those who are left are under increasing pressure. these people meal breaks . people don't get meal breaks. they get a divorce . they they hardly get a divorce. they work excessive overtime because this is the only way the service can run. christina mckinney but the health secretary maintains the health secretary maintains the government is trying to work constructively with unions. clearly we will need to look at the data from today to see whether the exemptions that the trade unions have promised material lies. they've said on the one hand they want to cause maximum disruption, but on the other hand that they don't want to cause harm to patients. so we've tried work we've tried to work constructively trade constructively with the trade unions, but of course, if we see significant patient harm, then as a government we will need to look at what he's done in terms

of minimum service levels . a man of minimum service levels. a man who admitted murdering his pregnant partner and three children in derbyshire will spend the rest of his life in jail. damien bendall was given a whole life order for killing tern whole life order for killing terri harris. her children, lacey and john—paul bennett and lacey's friend connie gent in killamarsh in september last yeah killamarsh in september last year. the prosecutor told the court they were brutal , vicious court they were brutal, vicious attacks , international news and attacks, international news and ukraine's president has arrived in washington , in the united in washington, in the united states for talks with joe. his first foreign trips since the start of russia's invasion. volodymyr zelenskyy will also address congress and hold a number of bilateral meetings to help strengthen ukrainian resilience and defence capabilities. earlier this week, the us confirmed a new package of military aid for the country worth £1.6 billion, including a patriot missile system to help ukraine defend its infrastructure against russian

attacks . that's up to date on attacks. that's up to date on tv, online a, b, plus radio with gb news. now it's time for far—right . far—right. good evening. well today it's ambulance strikes tens of thousands of ambulance workers, paramedics and indeed call handlers are on strike across the country today . there are the country today. there are some areas that have not gone on strike while the vast majority have of the army been filling in as best they possibly can. but a very difficult job to do. you know , even before these strikes know, even before these strikes , i bet there's not a single one of you that hasn't heard a story , that has not heard a story over the course of the last year or so. well, they've been somewhat horrified by the sheer amount of time it's taken for an ambulance to come. it is part of

broken britain. it's not working in the way that it used to . in the way that it used to. we're going to cut. i'm going to start. we're going to live to the white house, to president biden and ukraine's zelenskyy . biden and ukraine's zelenskyy. talking to this scandal. okay so this is the first visit, the volodymyr zelenskyy has made since the invasion last february of ukraine. he's there at the white house with, joe biden and biden very much , although biden very much, although i think to be fair , whether you think to be fair, whether you agree with the policy or not, it was boris johnson that led the way in terms western support for ukraine. but biden has gone along with that. so this is a very significant moment. along with that. so this is a very significant moment . as very significant moment. as i said to you before on this show. you know, all this media telling you that the ukrainians are winning the war. the russians have withdrawn . well, i'll be have withdrawn. well, i'll be very, very careful and cautious

about all of that. the fact they've fallen back behind the russians have fallen back behind their defensive position. does not mean the russians are beaten. and it may well be that the ukrainians are in for a very long, dark , cold, hungry winter long, dark, cold, hungry winter without power, possibly even without power, possibly even without enough water to. so we will we will. as the evening goes on, follow that meeting and goes on, follow that meeting and go live, cut, live at any moment to a press conference that may happen back to strikes. so things are wrong within the evidence as it's not been working it is part of broken britain. i was a bit shocked really to hear the junior minister for health, will quince , telling us, don't leave your house. don't do anything dangerous. well i almost thought, gosh, they're putting lockdown on us. but it was the comments, i think, of the health secretary, stephen barclay , that secretary, stephen barclay, that really have sparked a bit of pubuc really have sparked a bit of public debate. he says the ambulance workers are making a

conscious choice to inflict harm on the british people . so are we on the british people. so are we back to are we back to 1980s style wars between trade unions and conservative ministers? and if people die today , where does if people die today, where does the fault lie? it's a big moral question. this isn't just about a factory closing down with a row over pay disputes. what may happen to productivity ? this happen to productivity? this really is about people's. earlier on today gb news were out at waterloo talking to striking ambulance workers , striking ambulance workers, trying to put people's lives at risk. we're trying to make sure that people are looked after, looked after properly for safety . if you desperately need an ambulance, call around once. and if service can't provide it, if the service can't provide it, we from the picket line. we will go from the picket line. this happening every day. this is happening every day. people because we people are dying because we haven't resources to haven't got the resources to send. haven't got the nurses send. we haven't got the nurses to give the care in the hospital. so it's not just about

today. what's been today. it's about what's been happening weeks years. happening for weeks and years. people start listening people need to start listening to in government. blame is to us in government. blame is firmly at the door of the government . we've reports government. we've heard reports again this week of patients dying because we haven't been able to turn an ambulance quickly enough so. we haven't got sufficient resources available to us and available to the public keep safe on the public to keep them safe on a basis . this is as best a daily basis. this is as best that we can do . our are that we can do. our crews are run ragged. they absolutely at breaking as . are all of breaking point as. are all of the services across the nhs. and there's else left for us there's nothing else left for us to do but to take take action now . i to do but to take take action now. i understand to do but to take take action now . i understand , to do but to take take action now. i understand , you to do but to take take action now . i understand , you know, now. i understand, you know, some of those workers there , of some of those workers there, of course, we're talking to strikers. so of they're going to take an anti—government position. but it was interesting, wasn't it? the woman in the middle there who said this just about today , it's said this just about today, it's about what's happened as the ambulance service . and i do give ambulance service. and i do give credence to that. however these people are involved in a vital pubuc people are involved in a vital public service. i'm sure big insulted by a conservative

secretary for health actually helps. but if people die , whose helps. but if people die, whose fault is it? well, i'm afraid to say ultimately i don't think people like ambulance workers should go on strike. whatever grievances may be. that is my . grievances may be. that is my. you give me your view. please. farage at gb news dot uk. now joining me to debate this is somebody who was around in the 19805 somebody who was around in the 1980s when he was mayor of london actually, he was a very busy man . ken livingstone, busy man. ken livingstone, pleasure to see you. is back to the future. is this a tory government? this last 12 years under this government we've seen pubuc under this government we've seen public spending cut more than at any time in my lifetime. i mean, you go back tory prime ministers in the sixties and seventies wouldn't have been cutting back spending but onto this government in 12 years they're now spending 18% less on the nhs than if they carried on with labour spending . just not true. labour spending. just not true. it is true . now i hear me. you

it is true. now i hear me. you know, we are now spending 12% of gdp on the health. all right. ten years ago. 11 years ago, we were spending 8. it's not a lack of money, is it? it is a lack of money. this we've got thousands of jobs. thousand nurses , of jobs. thousand nurses, vacancies and things of that. this government only this last 12 years has made cuts in public spending. not just nhs that no tory government in the decades before would have dared to do. and think that this is appalling . i totally support those workers going on strike because in real terms. their pay in the last decade has come down almost up to 20. i may sympathise you on the pay don't get with the six richest nation in the world, but we don't have try. i have some sympathy whether you want to pay as i said so last night about the nurses. although to ask for 19% in that case on ask for 19% in that case was on reasonable but equally the government in this

government to get more in this negotiation. so do have some negotiation. so i do have some sympathy on the pay. however if you are involved in a vital pubuc you are involved in a vital public service where the immediacy of people's life is concerned , is it right to go on concerned, is it right to go on strike? of course it's a penalty nightmare. but why else have they got to do this ? they got to do this? government's been squeezing their pay year by year by year , their pay year by year by year, andifs their pay year by year by year, and it's triggered this strike. they strike isn't because the workers want to go on strike because they've got no choice now. i mean, lots amount able to pay now. i mean, lots amount able to pay their rent. i mean , pay their rent. i mean, literally in my lifetime , i'm literally in my lifetime, i'm there's never been a government as bad this. it's my constant no previous tory government edward heath if i remember ken livingston in the 1980s saying similar things about the government. well but she wouldn't have made cuts in the nhs. i mean, she did some pretty terrible things like my council. it's that was it. but you came back. but now, i mean. but i'm going to repeat the point . we're going to repeat the point. we're putting more money into health

than we ever did before. it may not have found its way into nurses, but. but it is keeping up with the need . this is the up with the need. this is the thing. i mean, literally, you at britain, we're getting older. more more brits are getting more and more brits are getting to be over 60 over 75. and of course, to you, when you're my wife, you have more health problems than you do when you're 45. and mass immigration has led to our population exploding as well. but if well. well, yeah, but if we weren't doing that much immigration, there'd even immigration, there'd be even more vacancies. i mean, we've got surgeons, mean, coming got surgeons, i mean, coming from africa and latin america to work here. final thought. if people die today directly as a result of this ambulance strike, whose fault is it? this government or ken livingstone killed as robust as that, that wouldn't surprise me at all. now, maybe geoff is also not exactly a right winger . she exactly a right winger. she joins me down the line from sicily and columnist on the independent right in the spectator . mary, i read what you

spectator. mary, i read what you said last week about nurses and the point i think you were making is there are many other people working in refuse collection or other areas of pubuc collection or other areas of public services who equally do important jobs but aren't going on strike . am i right to on strike. am i right to interpret that ? yes, that's one interpret that? yes, that's one of the one of the big points that i was trying to make. and i to say that i find that the government has a here or at least i think it does. and i think it's not making it at all. well, i don't know whether it's to whether it's reticent to make it whether it doesn't really believe in its case . but it has believe in its case. but it has a case, and i don't think it's making it . do a case, and i don't think it's making it. do you think when the health secretary stephen barclay, says that ambulance workers are making a conscious choice to harm people , is choice to harm people, is language like that useful when it comes to settling a dispute . it comes to settling a dispute. well, it's obviously not useful , just as it's not useful to

people just before christmas that really going out and getting drunk is an irresponsible thing to do because they might have to call an ambulance. you know, none of these things very helpful, but these things very helpful, but the temperature has risen to . the temperature has risen to. the point where there are those emotions on either side. one thing that i find very difficult understand is why after all these years , it's still the these years, it's still the government that nhs workers, whether they're nurses, doctors or ambulance people, whether they that it's the government they that it's the government they want to talk to and they feel neglected because . the feel neglected because. the government sort of won't immediately everything and talk them on their terms . i don't them on their terms. i don't understand why that should be. why should they not be talking to nhs management? they seem to think they've got a sort of prefer alleged hotline to the government and they deserve to be spoken to by the government . be spoken to by the government. i agree with that. i have to

say, i thought stephen barclay's comments that he would talk the royal college of nursing , for royal college of nursing, for example, about the issue example, but not about the issue they were striking on, namely pay they were striking on, namely pay other things. thought that pay other things. i thought that was wrong. so when we look at what's going on today, you know, we will no doubt there'll be stories in the tabloid press tomorrow of horrific wait times for ambulances , although we've for ambulances, although we've had afraid to say had those. i'm afraid to say pretty strike over the last year or two before. who's but you know. okay, i guess it. you know you're analysing this we've got two entrenched sides, no proper negotiations . whose fault is it? negotiations. whose fault is it? is it a bit of both. if people die today or do we apportion blame more to one side or the other ? i push and blame much other? i push and blame much more to the people who are on strike. the people on strike with the nurses or ambulance people, they are not a majority . more people are working than not working. i think that there should be legislation that limits the effect of strikes in

what are essential public services . that includes services. that includes transport it includes nurses. it includes ambulance drivers . includes ambulance drivers. those sort of regulations on the continent exist in places like france . i don't see why they france. i don't see why they shouldn't pertain the uk as well . mary jessica , thank you very . mary jessica, thank you very much indeed for putting that point of view. what i have to say in conclusion, whilst i feel absolutely for people on relatively low pay at a time of rising inflation, the logic of what you say for a country that needs to continue to exist as a civilised , i think the logic is civilised, i think the logic is absolutely on your side. thank you for joining absolutely on your side. thank you forjoining me absolutely on your side. thank you for joining me this evening on gb news. while both sides of the argument put their i hope you feel at home and in your cars listening on radio. we've done that as fairly as possibly can, but this action that's been taken by ambulance workers, is by no means unanimous. there are many people out there in that service who are working today. we need resolution. the government to be a bit more

reasonable. i think all of reasonable. i think with all of these people, but still i don't believe they should on strike. and really , really don't. and i really, really don't. today, home secretary discussed the possibility of putting cross—channel migrants on old empty cruise ships. is it feasible? is it possible? we'll debate that in just a moment. join me, calvin robinson , join me, calvin robinson, christmas eve and day to explore how this special period has become a source of hope with an especially festive show. i expect christmas carols, nativity readings and interviews with special guests and it's all filmed in a church that's proper christmas feeling . christmas a christmas feeling. christmas a message of hope at 2 pm. on christmas eve and 5 am. and 11 am. on christmas day on gb news. the people's channel. britain's news.

so if people today whose fault is it? was the question that i asked you to respond to. and of course you have in great numbers. david has said all sides union has nhs management and government . steve says both and government. steve says both are to blame in different areas , specifying those areas as important. it's not just black and white. another view says their fault. the nhs and and white. another view says theirfault. the nhs and i guess their fault. the nhs and i guess you're lumping the ambulance workers with as well. and finally all i got time to take. john says the roles blame. this is an utter mess and it's the pubuc is an utter mess and it's the public who have to pay the price . well look you know i've laid out my position on this for the last nights. i don't think the government being reasonable and i think that's stupid because i think if they were raising the bill, they would very much get the vast majority of the public on their side.

the vast majority of the public on their side . some of the on their side. some of the demands that are being made , the demands that are being made, the unions are wholly unrealistic. i sympathise people on that on an individual basis , but i really individual basis, but i really don't think people working in areas like care should go on strike . that's my view. no doubt strike. that's my view. no doubt we'll get a return to that over the course of the next weeks. now, today, the home secretary suella braverman she was appearing before a committee in parliament. just as parliament begins to wind down for the recess and of course, inevitably we were talking about across channel migrant problem, 45,000 people just over that have crossed this year, unlike leigh, looking at the weather , any more looking at the weather, any more will come between. now and the end of the year. but she was talking about the possibility of using cruise ships old, cruise ships to house migrants. so i guess the idea would be the boats would get to our 12 mile line. people will be offloaded onto those cruise liners for processing. she discussed it as

being a possibility . these would being a possibility. these would actually ever really going to happen. well, let me ask former home office adviser and serving conservative councillor lincoln clare . so clare, i mean , i keep clare. so clare, i mean, i keep heanng clare. so clare, i mean, i keep hearing this. flights rwanda now , we've got cruise ships in the engush , we've got cruise ships in the english channel and all i actually see now are over 400 hotels that have been filled up dunng hotels that have been filled up during the course of a conservative government in this country. talks of pontin and campbell sands and butlins around the country . campbell sands and butlins around the country. is this plan that was discussed today feasible or was she just, pardon the pun , floating the idea of the pun, floating the idea of cruise ships? i know it isn't feasible. let's all be honest with it. where were you going to get cruise ships from? for a start ? how much money is that start? how much money is that going to cost? if you just look at the practicalities of cruise ships. they can take 4000 people

if you're going to really put in. well, as you've just said , in. well, as you've just said, 45,000 have come across the channel so far this. so how many cruise ships are you going to have? where are you going to put them? are you staffing? it's them? how are you staffing? it's one of policies yet again one of these policies yet again that has just been put there because they feel it is the right thing to say with absolutely nothing to back it up. well, your serving conservative , you conservative councillor, you know, we've had priti patel who i personally like very much indeed, but priti patel over promising to deliver. we've got suella. i'm on my political highlight of the year, by the way, in this rather grim year was in the leadership contest, you know, saying live to camera . we're going to have to leave the job. it will last. someone gets it. but now she's home secretary that's not even on the agendain secretary that's not even on the agenda in a sunak government. and he was asked about this yesterday, completely dodged the question. i'm what does all of this mean for the conservatives

prospects ? it's not good. prospects? it's not good. i think you and i will food that's as probably is nice as i can be right now because i am facing re—election next year and i can see that this is going to be a really tough battle. everything believe in as a conservative is being flushed away currently. and as you've just said , we were and as you've just said, we were looking to something positive with the leadership and it hasn't happened . you know, this hasn't happened. you know, this is going to put the conservatives back at least decades. and what i worry about, his people are going to go away from the conservative party. they're going to say we're going to vote labour, whatever. and the options aren't any better, especially if you look at immigration. you want to look at what labour are saying on what they would do because it isn't going to help. it's not people want. so i think that the voting pubuc want. so i think that the voting public are going to be really cautious when it comes to the ballot boxes . the next general ballot boxes. the next general election comes. but i think at local election time they are

going to punish the conservative party for things that out of party for things that are out of local control . now local councillors control. now there thousands seats up there are thousands of seats up for election in may of next year andifs for election in may of next year and it's up to 7000 seats being contested right across the united kingdom. i can we face the scenario where rishi sunak's conservatives do badly and there's another leadership challenge? do you see him now challenge? or do you see him now as the settled leader? i see him now as this battle leader. think the conservative party would be very, very stupid to think they can depose another leader so quickly . i can depose another leader so quickly. i think this is now his two own until the next general action. it is going to be very, very painful and the onus is now on the party to get this right, whether they do that or not. remains to be seen. i mean, that brexit vote come on, that brexit vote, midlands vote, that that that midlands and north of england, the wall, ukip voters . brexit party ukip voters. brexit party voters. brexit voters. 75% of whom voted boris johnson's conservatives in 2019. i'm i'm

unless you solve this cross—channel thing , they've got cross—channel thing, they've got nothing. i think they are . but nothing. i think they are. but i think what's also interesting is to where they go. i'm not sure they would revert back to laboun they would revert back to labour. i think smaller labour. i think perhaps smaller parties have a chance to take parties do have a chance to take over some seats in those red wall areas. labour aren't going to give them the option the current time. conservatives are struggling. so i that's struggling. so i think that's probably slightly more probably a slightly more interesting looking at interesting way of looking at it. are absolutely right it. but you are absolutely right with this crisis at the moment. if conservatives don't get if the conservatives don't get it right, they are at the it right, they are gone at the next. where's the opposition next. and where's the opposition 7 next. and where's the opposition ? you know, seems to me that ? you know, it seems to me that the eurosceptic who had gone the eurosceptic s who had gone from being the fringe to being in or back to a in control or back to being a fringe , it seems, you know, fringe, it seems, you know, i talked to you tonight. i talked to other conservatives who in despair, know over the despair, you know over the taking back control pledge with brexit and where we are today . brexit and where we are today. have just given have you guys just given effectively ? majority of us effectively? majority of us haven't. so and that's that's what i find really hard if you talk to local councillors , if talk to local councillors, if you talk to the majority of

employees in parliament, conservative mps, they absolutely haven't given up. it just feels that the cabinet itself has closed the doors to any kind of conversation going on. brexit is one of those things we have to get right. absolutely i was out there campaigning for it, as were you. i want to see it that so does the 17 million people that voted for it. there's been a globalist coup. it wasn't there. it was put in sunak's been put in our first ever goldman sachs prime minister i mean, the globalists are now running the conservatives massive migration, be it legal or illegal. conservatives massive migration, be it legal or illegal . seems to be it legal or illegal. seems to be it legal or illegal. seems to be what they want. unfortunately, it feels very much like that's what i want to see are the voices coming through. unfortunately, the cabinet is not made up of that. i would have had in their who actively question and debate the prime minister and the cabinet there enough of that. and unfortunately every prime minister does it surrounds himself . minister does it surrounds himself. people minister does it surrounds himself . people are minister does it surrounds himself. people are going himself. people that are going to yes and is always to say yes and is always a mistake . i have to say. i think mistake. i have to say. i think you're onto a loser but i could

be wrong . you must come back be wrong. you must come back here after the may elections and i won't analyse . what has i won't analyse. what has happened to let the conservative councillors up and down the country? it's a big moment coming up in may. it's interesting. national media always underestimates the importance year of these importance every year of these rounds of local elections . 2023 rounds of local elections. 2023 is a really big one. in a minute , we'll come back and talk about it's almost but the collusion between the fbi and to suppress debate about hunter biden and other . all of that in just a other. all of that in just a moment .

at this moment. at this moment . want to give you at this moment. want to give you some really good , good brexit some really good, good brexit news. yes no, i really do. the government are really shouting from the to anyone that will listen that we've got some great

news for our fishing industry. yes absolutely. minister spence is telling us we now next year for 2023, have a further 30,000 tonnes of fish we can land each year commercially selling market. and that's really good news and it shows that brexit is working for fisheries. that's the government line. well if you live in the north—east of england , there is no increase in england, there is no increase in whatsoever and all those boats that i see so regularly in the engush that i see so regularly in the english channel fishing right up to our six mile line, not the 12 mile line that should be our absolute minimum under international law, but no fishing right up to the six mile line. in fact, more french, dutch, belgium boats fishing almost six miles in the most on the south coast of england. i've ever seen before. we still have vast factory ships, hard working

in the english channel, some of them catching much as 150 tonnes a day of mackerel or herrings or sardines or whatever else it may be . and how extraordinary that be. and how extraordinary that this announcement about the good news for fishing come just as the anna row european union council meeting on fisheries quotas has ended. so here it is. brexit britain, where we voted to take back our fishing industry, to take back our territory your waters. how extraordinary that the reason we've got a furthe r £30,000 we we've got a further £30,000 we can catch this year is because the european union have agreed to it. that is not what i campaigned for. it is not what our coastal communities voted . our coastal communities voted. it is not what the country deserves. and expects. is it any wonder that when the british pubuc

wonder that when the british public are polled today, what they think brexit was a good thing or a bad thing? a growing number? think it was a bad thing, not because was, but because of what the conservatives have done with it . now, elon musk is incredibly busy with twitter , all sorts of busy with twitter, all sorts of twitter polls now asking him not to continue as ceo. it is quite remarkable. but i'm going to cut now live to the white house to president biden. i'm not a man, zelenskyy of ukraine. so difficult. you know, if i come i came i mean that we can control the situation and because of support and first of all, because of your support and i really i understand that we have more important topics we'll discuss them. ever seen so many challenges you've trained in europe in the war and i. okay. okay well that was that was the oval office . that was the oval oval office. that was the oval office. and it is, as i've said already , it is a significant

already, it is a significant meeting that is taking place . meeting that is taking place. but will go back i will go back to what i was because i was talking about america. i was talking about america. i was talking about america. i was talking about elon musk. i was talking about elon musk. i was talking about elon musk. i was talking about the twitter files and what was revealed last night. all my twitter files , i night. all my twitter files, i find this hard to believe is that the fbi ? i gave three and that the fbi? i gave three and a half million dollars to twitter for them to, suppress certain piece is of information. now i don't want to get into this deep state conspiracy theory , but state conspiracy theory, but then want to look at the facts laid bare before me of what actually happened in the run up to that election in november 2020. it appear that much mainstream media of social media and arms government like the fbi did all they could to suppress

what had happened, what was seen on that laptop from hunter biden . i don't go along with claims about a stolen election . but i about a stolen election. but i do think what america went through last time was not free and a fair and an open election. and frankly, in view that whole thing is a complete disgrace. now joe lycett, the comedian we've talked him over the last few weeks and he's really quite sparky and quite fun and. if you remember just a few weeks ago as the world cup started , he was the world cup started, he was shredding ten grand's worth of money was all a very big, dramatic . it money was all a very big, dramatic. it was his protest that we were going out to qatar to play the world cup. his protest . but, you know, some protest. but, you know, some star players were going out there and taking money and in particular, you know, what he was aiming at of was david beckham. he was going out there as an administrator. so he shredded ten grand's worth of

money. it was a big dramatic gesture , a huge sensation on gesture, a huge sensation on social media, turned out actually it was fake money that he shredded it wasn't his. and now it turns that in 2015, he himself went out to the middle east and did some paid gigs. this revealed himself was now a war of words between joe lycett and the son. but know the moral of the story . it's very, very of the story. it's very, very simple. people in glasshouses should not throw stones. in a moment , i'll should not throw stones. in a moment, i'll be joined by former commodities trader andrew maguire . he spent his life maguire. he spent his life specialising in gold and silver and precious metals. we'll talk about how our money used to be backed by gold, but it isn't any longer. why that matters, what the impact that's been on our lives and what happens to gold from here .

on it's on wsfime on it's time for talking points. it really, really is. i'm i guess that andrew maguire is a former commodity , is trader. so you've commodity, is trader. so you've sort of come from very similar backgrounds though. andrew your obsession with precious metals began as a teenager ? it began as a teenager? it certainly did. in fact, at 12 years old, i used to go to auctions and literally by any score piece of silver and of course know collected all this stuff . the family thought it was stuff. the family thought it was crazy , actually. you know what , crazy, actually. you know what, it turned out to be a really, really good investment. and i loved silver's being something a passion of for silver for many, many years. it's always a currency throughout history. sterling. sterling thing. absolutely. that sterling's had a benchmark and it used to be a benchmark for the pound . and of

benchmark for the pound. and of course, then yes, but that devolved to gold, of course. and gold and silver are joined at the hip , so to gold and silver are joined at the hip, so to speak. gold and silver are joined at the hip , so to speak. and, of the hip, so to speak. and, of course , gold is more is viewed course, gold is more is viewed really by governments central , really by governments central, banks as an asset when we're going to talk about the history of gold in a moment i mean, i got involved with silver as a teenagen got involved with silver as a teenager. i think i was 16, 17. when i first got involved. i became, i worked in the metal exchange. you were a bullion dealer. our background is dealer. so our background is very, but it's very, very similar, but it's important explain , to people important to explain, to people just important gold was. it just how important gold was. it was the same thing as money up until 1971. just give us a quick on that. yep, up until 1971, it really gold basically create you had to it created discipline it created a discipline on governments where you couldn't just create money it would be your money was backed by gold.

yeah. now if we go all the way back to if i was if i was in 1200 and i was in warwick castle and i wanted to invade the castle in kenilworth, i would go down to my, to the vaults and i would count how many gold coins i had because that is the limit to how whether i could actually go to war or not or in if i did run out , they might turn or they run out, they might turn or they might pay them to come back on me. so basically, the gold has always been a it provided discipline to them. but then president nixon , president nixon president nixon, president nixon wrote the link between the dollar and gold, which as i see it, allowed, allowed governments to create what we call fiat money. now governments to start creating money which has led to what would not for the whole of the time, but a long period of inflation , a long period of inflation, a long period of monetary devaluation, which went back into the game today, absolute , really full circle. absolute, really full circle. and i think what happened the minute that he pegged gold for

the from the dollar essentially as you say fiat currencies what is a fiat currency people know it is simply the pound or the dollar that you hold in your hand. what is it backed by? it's backed by faith in the government . that's what they government. that's what they sell us. absolutely so do you have. sell us. absolutely so do you have . this is the question i ask have. this is the question i ask people. do you have confidence in this £20 nut. i'm told the bank of england that all crypto currencies are valueless. but then i look at the existing money and i begin to ask not quite the same, but similar questions. and you worked in this market buying and selling gold? yeah. governments, even though money is not pegged directly gold. governments hold reserves of gold. mm hmm. but we had a chancellor who took over in 1997. gordon the great gordon brown , who told us that gold was brown, who told us that gold was a barbarous relic , that its time a barbarous relic, that its time had gone , and then proceeded to had gone, and then proceeded to sell 400 metric tonnes of our

gold reserves . the sell 400 metric tonnes of our gold reserves. the bank of england, at an average of about $270 ounce, and it's now 1800 dollars an ounce. what was he thinking? yeah well, in pound terms, is 1450 pounds, so 1800 dollars, of course. so so apples to apples. what was he thinking is absolutely right. and i think really that point that what it really that point that what it really sent us down a road of money printing and debasement currency debasement and i think so really gold is a you just start out by saying gold is money everything else is credit everything else is and then we're talking about debt based systems here. we're talking how how is i mean, if you have your £20 note and you put it into the bank, number one, you've just learned that to the bank. people don't realise that. but that actually is it is in your name. but but and they can

fractionalised that and send it out. but the thing is this it's depreciating and what's the current rate of inflation in this country 10% they claim actually if you go down the grocery store. yeah i don't think it's 10% it's more like think it's10% it's more like 20. and most people will just say, well, look at my current my basket has not cost me just 10% more. so really when i say to people , say to me, look, yes, people, say to me, look, yes, well, i've got cash in the bank, i know it's a bit of a risky environment right now. we're talking about governments and money safe. yeah, but money's devaluing. and that's devaluing. i know. and that's going to catch up with people as it in the seventies. yeah, it did in the seventies. yeah, but the market and but within the gold market and within relationship with within this relationship with central with central banks. yeah, with governments, . the markets. governments, yeah. the markets. i you've been bit of i mean you've been a bit of a whistle blower. you've you believe there's great corruption that there. proved that exists there. we've proved it , nigel. that exists there. we've proved it, nigel. and, and back in 2008, i a really a scheme by our

too big to fail had colluded and it was called a conspiracy theory at the time had colluded to rig the price of precious metals that we're talking about a mark it and believe it or not if you add in all of the paper derivatives that surround piece of physical gold , you're talking of physical gold, you're talking about literally 70 trillion. i mean a trillion. forget it. you know, i'm sorry, you guys, because i can't even imagine . because i can't even imagine. but anyway, we're talking about a market that fat that is that big. so basically what happened was , we uncovered a scheme where was, we uncovered a scheme where they would the price of gold at a certain at the fixed point a certain point in the day where you fix the price in the morning in london the london 11:00 10:00 in london the london 11:00 10:00 in the morning in london and 3 pm. in the afternoon. and now the whole world, the whole globe fixes that gold price to that price. central banks to bullion dealers, everyone across the world, they're talking about a

massive here, big as big massive market here, big as big as a so essentially , if as a whale. so essentially, if you can rig price and you know, it's a bit like saying it, you know, this horse is going to be win this race. so useful . win this race. so useful. absolutely, very useful. so really a no brainer that you wouldn't actually make money. so what i did was uncover the scheme which then we then reported it to the cftc, which is the commodity futures trading . trading regulators. we reported it to dumas, department of justice in america. subsequent report it to andrew bailey . he subsequent report it to andrew bailey. he was head of subsequent report it to andrew bailey . he was head of the fca bailey. he was head of the fca bank of the fca , but essentially bank of the fca, but essentially proved that they were the markets we gave them 88 examples of where the price would fixed the next day. we did that through lawyers so that we would timestamp the before and say, here's the email, share it with the cftc , share it with jj,

the cftc, share it with jj, here's where the price. if you believe there's been a wilful attempt, it was to keep the price of gold low. it was a wilful attempt to not just keep the price of gold low, but as an a game to make money. yeah, well corruption can exist in many, many forms . but looking at where many forms. but looking at where we are today , you make the point we are today, you make the point that, you know, being safe with your money and having it in the bank and i get the yeah you're 10. yeah. or maybe a little bit more this current moment time this program not here to give investment advice we're not giving investment advice . but giving investment advice. but i'm asking you, andrew maguire , i'm asking you, andrew maguire, your personal opinion. what you think gold does from here , think gold does from here, right? so your alternative saying cash put it in the bank and you 10. that is an investment . you don't think that investment. you don't think that you get this lovely, warm and fuzzy feeling between your is it safe it's in bank. no you are losing 10% minimum gold . a 5000

losing 10% minimum gold. a 5000 year old currency . it has never year old currency. it has never lost any value . it'll buy you lost any value. it'll buy you today what it bought 5000 years ago. and with there's so much evidence of that. if you were a roman legion, you could buy the buying power of gold . your buying power of gold. your buying power of gold. your buying power of gold. your buying power of gold has never eroded. in fact, fiat currencies is really you look at gold as the as the shore and fiat currencies as the moving item. so people say well but isn't gold the first thing that people say it to be addressed so is gold volatile ? well if you look gold volatile? well if you look at it on a day to day basis, yes, every currency and gold is a commodity , but it's also a commodity, but it's also a currency. it's one of the few . currency. it's one of the few. there's only two or four real currency for real . that trade on currency for real. that trade on the on the exchanges as a foreign exchange cross as if it was pound dollar it gold dollar it's gold it's a it trades as a foreign exchange cross so it is

a currency a longer term medium term short term punting for the next 24 hours. yeah. you believe that it's the right place to be. yeah. so if you just take 2008, you look at take that as a benchmark and you say, okay where has gold in pound terms , where has gold in pound terms, it's gone 360% higher as of today been. yeah, the pound is down 39. yeah if you've been in gold for the last 20 years, it's been a great place to be andrew maguire people like him, we used to call gold bugs and he's a proper go back and i thank you for joining me with very short history of a very short history of gold, valuable to of gold, but very valuable to thank you . okay. thank you. thank you. okay. a few seconds left for barrage. the barrage . yes. bobby asks me the barrage. yes. bobby asks me . there is no love for the nurses , the gp's or the police nurses, the gp's or the police any more, let alone the real stuff. the public are sick of strikers . do you agree? i to say

strikers. do you agree? i to say there's no love for the nurses is just plain bloomin wrong. i think actually there's huge respect for the nurses. i know across the sectors. i think unions are completely overplaying their hand and losing public support. but the government can win all of this, provide it. there seem to be reasonable and they seem to be going gratuitously on the offensive . doesn't make sense to offensive. doesn't make sense to me . time for one more. grunt me. time for one more. grunt asks. me. time for one more. grunt asks . if trump was the uk asks. if trump was the uk minister , how long would it take minister, how long would it take for him to stop the crossing of the channel probably about a fortnight. maybe less. and remember that tony abbott did do this . tony abbott remember that tony abbott did do this. tony abbott did this in australia ten years ago. time for one more. yes, absolutely . for one more. yes, absolutely. law asks would you be having turkey christmas day, andrew? turkey christmas day, andrew? turkey or goose ? it's going to turkey or goose? it's going to be turkey. my friend is going to be turkey. my friend is going to be turkey. my friend is going to be turkey turkey for me as well . absolutely. well, i think i have the if anyone's vegan have the side if anyone's vegan

watching this, will they be offended? it's a free country. we're allowed to make our we're all allowed to make our own at least we should own choices. at least we should be say what we believe in be and say what we believe in without cancelled. which without being cancelled. which is why gb news exists and why we're here now. starting again tonight steyn back in tonight for mark steyn back in paddington , the one and only paddington, the one and only patrick christys is. yes, nigel cracking show as always. i would of course be having swan for christmas dinner if indeed it was legal, but i've got loads coming your way tonight, ladies and because going and gentlemen, because i'm going to about nicholas to be talking about nicholas sturgeon why are to be talking about nicholas stu housing why are to be talking about nicholas stu housing illegal why are to be talking about nicholas stuhousing illegal immigrantsre we housing illegal immigrants instead of kids ? there's a uk instead of uk kids? there's a uk kids homelessness crisis . kids homelessness crisis. they'll be talking about all of that and much, much more as well , including the latest climate conspiracy. make sure you tune in as well. gbp is gbnews.uk getting them coming in. i will not be holding back . i fill in not be holding back. i fill in for the one on the only mr. time of rip roaring week so far that's croc on i come up good evening alex deakin here with your latest weather from the met

office fine across parts of the north tomorrow with sunny spells but it is going to be a north south split misty murky conditions across much of the south with rain at times courtesy pressure systems courtesy of low pressure systems and weather fronts moving in. this low is still bringing plenty of heavy showers across scotland , parts of northern scotland, parts of northern england, the evening and tightly packed highs of hours as well. still blustery, but the still very blustery, but the showers be here showers will be fading here through the night. some through the night. keep some going northern scotland . rain going in northern scotland. rain moving in more across parts moving in once more across parts of england. quite of southern england. quite misty, conditions here misty, murky conditions here as well . some foggy conditions, well. some foggy conditions, especially on the higher routes, staying quite mild in the south with clear spells . the north, 2 with clear spells. the north, 2 to 4 degrees celsius, but most places above freezing to thursday agree . great day. then thursday agree. great day. then of course, the south with rain and drizzle at times. some of that rain drifting into parts of northern england for much of scotland. northern ireland, a dry up dry today there will still be some showers chiefly over northern scotland and as the northerly winds set in here once it's going to turn

once more, it's going to turn colder. showers colder. so those showers may start as sleet and but start to fall as sleet and but no chance of that further. south with double digits, 11 or 12 in the south. so miles, murky and that weather persists that murky weather persists dunng that murky weather persists during thursday evening. again, some foggy conditions on some of the higher routes leading into a few more showers keeping going across scotland and northern ireland into friday. but the main for friday will be this band of rain sweeping in, lots of hitting roads on of people hitting the roads on friday, course. so just bear friday, of course. so just bear that going to generate that in mind. going to generate a spray and surface water a lot of spray and surface water and poor visibility on and still poor visibility on some the higher routes, some of the higher routes, especially as that band. especially as that rain band. then by end of friday then by the end of friday spreads northern england spreads into northern england and behind it's and northern ireland behind it's may well turn brighter during friday. still pretty mild here as well and still fairly cold further north and that contrast for the next few days will continue. but the moderate will win out for the north as we head into christmas period before into the christmas period before perhaps we head perhaps colder as we head towards boxing day. but for now .

oh in a moment headliners on gb news. but first that up stories this hour the us and ukrainian have held a joint news conference from the white house in washington this evening. president joe biden vowed to continue support putting ukraine through its war with . russia through its war with. russia saying americans proudly with the ukrainian people and will do so for long as it takes . it's so for long as it takes. it's been 300 days since vladimir putin launched his invasion into . ukraine, mr. biden said the ukrainian people had continued to show the world that a breakable determination to fight for their freedom this year has brought so much needless suffering and loss to the ukrainian . suffering and loss to the ukrainian. but suffering and loss to the ukrainian . but i suffering and loss to the ukrainian. but i want you to know president zelenskyy , i want know president zelenskyy, i want you to know that all the people ukraine to know as well , the