6 pm. welcome to dewbs& co i am

once again standing in for the magnificent michelle, so i want to know, are we too soft on extreme ism in this country? the times has reported today that the long awaited review into the controversial prevent counter—terrorism programme is being delayed because michael gove is rather unhappy that the home office has decided to redact the names of individuals and organisations accused of spreading islamist extremism. the report was expected to highlight how some prevent funded programmes are funded by you and i have actually been promote extremist narratives . promote extremist narratives. i'm asking why on earth would the home office not name and shame these groups? apparently they're worried about legal action , but surely it's in the action, but surely it's in the national interest for us to know who is spreading anti—western extremist islamist ideologies , extremist islamist ideologies, ideologies that are and symmetrical to our values and way of life. i can't help but think this is a case of political correctness gone mad. the view is suppose to make the

prevent programme more effective at identifying those vulnerable to radicalisation and stopping them from turning into terrorists . surely we need to terrorists. surely we need to know the facts to do that. also what's the point in calling the police any more if you've been a victim of theft or burglary? i'm asking. this is being revealed today that more than a million parts were left unsold across england and wales last year. i, for one, have been a victim of theft and burglary and guess what? none of those crimes were ever solved. i'd like to know what you think on that one. and michael gove has been in the news he seems to be news again. he never seems to be out of it. he's announced a 1.4 billion devolution deal, out of it. he's announced a 1.4 billion devolution deal , £1.4 billion devolution deal, £1.4 billion devolution deal, £1.4 billion devolution deal for billion of devolution deal for nonh billion of devolution deal for north east england. as part of his up agenda. his levelling up agenda. it would also bring seven local authority areas under the control of one elected mayor. i'm a little bit sceptical about devolution and even more sceptical about mayors, not least because of london mayor sadiq khan's record, but perhaps you think more money and a mayor is exactly what the north—east needs. and finally, to finish on

a lighter or heavier note , a lighter or heavier note, perhaps i'll be asking my panel whether they're going to ditch the festive overindulgence and get on the treadmill. all of that to come tonight on dewbs& co. i'll introduce my wonderfully erudite panel in just moment. but first, just one moment. but first, let's get the latest news headunes. let's get the latest news headlines . hello, i'm radisson headlines. hello, i'm radisson in the gb newsroom. two men have been arrested on suspicion of murder in connection with the stabbing of a 23 year old man in a birmingham nightclub setting professional football . a code professional football. a code official was stabbed to death on the dance floor of the train nightclub on boxing day. hundreds of people were there at the time . his family says their the time. his family says their hearts were broken following his death. midlands police say death. west midlands police say a 22 year old was arrested in birmingham city centre last night whilst a 21 year old man was arrested in london . police was arrested in london. police are appealing for any information on the weapon used information on the weapon used

in the shooting, which killed a 26 year old on christmas eve in wirral. merseyside police say they are working to establish whether it could be connected to any other incidents in the area. beautician alleged edwards was fatally shot at the lighthouse in a man remains in critical condition. two people have been arrested in connection with that incident . border force staff and incident. border force staff and driving examiners are the latest to stage industrial action . to stage industrial action. members of the pcc's union working at multiple uk airports are continuing their strike over pay, are continuing their strike over pay, jobs and conditions. driving examiners have begun a five day walk out, affecting more than seven testing centres in the east of england and the midlands. meanwhile, on the rail network to say union members are on strike and causing disruption on strike and causing disruption on the great western railway and west midlands trains . former west midlands trains. former border force chief kevin saunders says airport disruption has been minimal. it would seem that the government got away with this. military people will will not be doing the, the more,

more involved people from abroad. they'll probably be only handung abroad. they'll probably be only handling the brits , which is handling the brits, which is probably 95% of the traffic anyway . so yeah. but border anyway. so yeah. but border force got away with it this time round . pope francis has asked round. pope francis has asked for prayers for his predecessor, former pope benedict, for prayers for his predecessor, former pope benedict , saying former pope benedict, saying he's very sick. the vatican says pope benedict had a sudden worsening of his health in recent hours, but his condition is under control and he's receiving constant medical care. 95 year old former head of the catholic church became the first p0pe catholic church became the first popein catholic church became the first pope in 600 years to resign when he stepped down in 2013. pope francis is asking the catholic community to keep him in their thoughts . cricketer football . i thoughts. cricketer football. i would like to ask all of you for a special prayer for pope emeritus benedict, a special prayer for pope emeritus benedict , who a special prayer for pope emeritus benedict, who in silence is sustaining the church . let us remember him. he is

very sick . asking the lord to very sick. asking the lord to console and sustain him in this witness of love for the church. until the end . two children until the end. two children under the age of ten have died with strep a in scotland, the first to be recorded north of the border. public health scotland says seven people in total have died from the invasive infection in the country since october . elsewhere country since october. elsewhere in the uk, data from the uk health security agency shows 21 children have died from the disease in england, whilst three children have died in belfast and wales . children have died in belfast and wales. the children have died in belfast and wales . the government says and wales. the government says it's urgently seeking information following reports that a number of uk iranian dual nationals have been detained in iran. iranian revolutionary guard says it's arrested seven people due to their alleged involvement in anti—government protest . number ten, a protest. number ten, a spokesperson has rejected claims that the uk is inciting riots within the country and called on

iran to stop holding foreign nationals for diplomatic leverage . the north—east of leverage. the north—east of england could be the latest region to have a directly elected mayor as the government announces a £1.4 billion devolution deal. the arrangement would give powers over education, transport and housing to people across northumberland, newcastle and sunderland. elections for the new man could take place in may of 2024 after a consultation process and provisional figures from the met office show that this year has been the warmest on record in the uk . by the been the warmest on record in the uk. by the end of been the warmest on record in the uk . by the end of the year, the uk. by the end of the year, 2022 will have seen the highest annual average temperature. it beats the record set in 20 1418 of just under ten degrees celsius. the met office says every month apart from this december has been warmer than average . senior meteorologist average. senior meteorologist jim dale told gb news we'll continue to see warm weather next year. you can't just look

at this and say, oh, it's just the uk, we're having a bad moment or a bad couple of years. you've got to look at other places. so the pakistani floods, for example, glaciers melting in the himalayas , it took times to the himalayas, it took times to occur , but when it did it was occur, but when it did it was devastating and many, many lives lost as i say, join the dots around the globe. and that i'm going to say to patrick that's going to say to patrick that's going to say to patrick that's going to continue in 2023. we're on tv , online and on dab+ radio on tv, online and on dab+ radio . this is gb news. back now to emily carver . emily carver. thank you very much , ray. so thank you very much, ray. so welcome to dewbs& co. with me, emily carver now with me until seven. i've got a fabulous panel seven. i've got a fabulous panel. i've got william hall to my left chair of oxfordshire conservatives and on my right political consultant emma burnell. thank you very much for joining us this evening. the emails are coming in thick and

fast on that home office story . fast on that home office story. why? well, we're asking essentially, why do you think the home office has decided to redact the names of individuals and organisations who have been accused of spreading extremist ideology ? i want to know, do you ideology? i want to know, do you think it's political correctness 7 think it's political correctness ? do you believe that they're worried about being sued? is it a bit of both? is it not appropriate to name and shame individuals organisations ? individuals and organisations? perhaps that would be a sensitive to various community is anyway. as always, i want to know your thoughts throughout the show. please do get in touch with me. vaiews@gbnews.uk or on twitter gb news. or you can twitter at gb news. or you can tweet me personally at korva. emily now so according to the times, there's been a bit of a cabinet row or disagreement, let's say, between suella braverman and michael gove over the contents of the long awaited review controversial review into the controversial prevent counter—terror programme . while bronfman is reportedly ready to publish the review, mr. gove is said to be unhappy that the has decided not the home office has decided not to names of several to publish the names of several individuals and groups because

of the department could be of fears the department could be sued.is of fears the department could be sued. is this an example of our pc culture gone mad ? surely it's pc culture gone mad? surely it's in the national interest name in the national interest to name and those pushing and shame those pushing extremist narratives . even if extremist narratives. even if said and said individuals and organisations are offend it. and surely it's an absolute scandal really. if some of these groups are receiving money from the prevent programme , essentially prevent programme, essentially from you and i, and still promoting extremist narratives. emma i'll start with you. there's a lot to get stuck into here, so perhaps i'll ask for your general take on this cabinet row. do you think michael gove is. it's fair enough that he is report oddly saying we shouldn't be redacting these names. i mean there are several questions that i would ask so there are times when the home office will need to redact reports for national security . reports for national security. for me, as a journalist , as for me, as a journalist, as someone who believes that we should have transparency in government, those should be the only times that that's allowed. and it shouldn't be done for fear of legal challenge . if the fear of legal challenge. if the home office are saying things

they shouldn't say, they should be legally challenged. and i made that case when there have been times on this channel where they've been upset about legal challenges to government policy, but they're getting things but if they're getting things wrong a democratic wrong, that is a democratic right . if, on the other hand , right. if, on the other hand, there are things in this report they don't want to tell us about, but still exist and are sitting in the inn within that policy, then we should know those. and if those are then legally challengeable, they should legal challenged. so i should be legal challenged. so i think that you've got to have a nuanced view where you say the report should public unless report should be public unless there are national security issues around and then if on issues around it. and then if on the other hand, that report is then things people then saying things that people find be untrue, to be find to be untrue, to be challengeable, that also needs to be part of the process. yes because prevent programme, because the prevent programme, of , been of course, has been a controversial one. people have said the past that it could said in the past that it could essentially target people for thought crimes . you know, there thought crimes. you know, there have been stories of children being referred to the prevent

programme after making ill advised joke or on the far right side, i remember a young boy i think it was got referred to the prevent programme for looking up the uk website. so that was a red flag apparently that he could be far right. what do you think it must be in the national interest for the home office is this is an independent review. this is an independent. independent report. surely we need to see the contents . need to see the contents. definitely. i think that's parliamentary privilege exists for a reason. the home secretary is able to stand up in parliament in a statement and use parliamentary privilege to say what she likes as long as she does has a good conscience, i think she should be naming and shaming those organised actions. but michael gove is but i think michael gove is making a bigger point, which is that lost its that prevents has lost its original and having far original purpose and having far right referrals outstrip islamist referrals. last year shows that the programme is of course we need to be dealing with the real threat to our country, which predominantly

comes from islamist extremism. it doesn't come from predominantly from, from far right groups . and in fact, as right groups. and in fact, as you've as you've spoken about a lot of the far right referrals have been shown to be politically motivated. referrals by teachers on the left of politics who are unhappy with the students having independent thought . well, william, you thought. well, william, you raise a very interesting and slightly controversial take, but i believe you to be right in that respect. we hear from people who know experts that islamism is still by far the biggest threat, obviously far right extremism is growing, but islam , islamist extremism islam, islamist extremism remains the major threat when it comes to terrorism in this country. why do you think more far right cases are being referred? well because, as you say, it's growing. so there will be think it's that or do you think it's sensitive parties? no. i mean, i got to go after the. no, that's all right. i don't think it's easier to go after the far right than islamists at all. i think there

are threats from the far right. i mean , and remember a friend i mean, and i remember a friend of mine who was an mp who was killed by someone who was from the far right, so we can't deny that this threat exists. we just before christmas. so far, right. terrorism in france . so it's terrorism in france. so it's important that we look at all of the threats and don't and take them out of an ideological lens. it's not about whether you agree with this point of view or you disagree with this point of view . it absolutely shouldn't be the case that someone googling a website for a legitimate political party, however much you find that political you might find that political parties views repugnant is the same as the likelihood of a child being being radicalised . child being being radicalised. that's appalling, but we do need to be making sure that we are looking at the threats that are coming and if that is growing on the far right, as you said, then that needs to be growing in the way where prevent is looking at. but i'm a little more sceptical because if we look at the

horrific cases of grooming gangs and the cover up that ensued , and the cover up that ensued, that was down to the fact that many of the police officers and social care and so on were so worried about stigmatising and minority ethnic group and minority ethnic group and minority religious group in this country that they didn't take it any further . and i do worry that any further. and i do worry that with this prevent programme, it's much easier for mrs. smith in the high school down the road to refer a far right child to or she suspect might be interested in the ideology than for her to be seen to be targeting a young muslim lad. well, you think that there might be any of that? would you see? i think that there are always it's an there are always if it's an individual i mean, i think individual i mean, i don't think frankly, it should be down to teachers to be to be doing this too much. it seems to have been massively pushed to who massively pushed to people who are trained in it are not properly trained in it to lot of these to meet a lot of these referrals, these cases should be

tested by people who know what they're doing when it comes to terrorism prevention. and again, both all ideology should be taken out of that fha field is seen to be at risk of radical ization by the far right, be it by islamist, be it by anybody else. they should be dealt with and properly assessed in that way. and it should be a non ideological programme. and the problem with turning it into a is this or is it that football we take it out of what's practical and pragmatic and should work, but isn't that one of the great criticisms? well of the prevent programme that it hasn't understood the ideological basis for islamist extremism, but it hasn't targeted the ideology that is so anti liberal and so anti western and essentially perpetuates things like isis. so prevent isn't just for teachers to the folks actually about broader community groups besides the groups, which is why it is a very powerful weapon. but it also needs to be done in moderation. right because it is

a chilling on free speech approach. but exactly what you're saying is true . i think you're saying is true. i think it's very clear that prevent has radically gone the wrong way , radically gone the wrong way, should be refocused on to it's not succeeding here. it's got a £40 million budget and am i not right in thinking that one of the men who was , well, the men who was, well, essentially stabbed someone on london bridge, i believe, had just been at a de—radicalisation event. so something's going wrong in terms of flagging up these people. and then obviously these people. and then obviously the re de—radicalize relation re de—radicalize asian process that is separate to the prevent programme. yeah, absolutely . i programme. yeah, absolutely. i mean, clearly where people are, i identified as being going into a path, a pipeline of extremism . they should be pulled out and they should be looked at by the security services. but i don't think anyone, any one of us on this panel is equipped to do that. it's the security services

say they need a tool to do the job. it's parliament and our job job. it's parliament and ourjob is political engage citizens to look whether tool is look at whether that tool is working. this this this working. now, this this this review asks programme review asks is the programme working? and i would say when far right referrals are outstripping islamists referrals, clearly it's not working . well also i would say working. well also i would say it's not working if groups in if groups and vigils contained in this report might have been taking money from essentially the taxpayer from the prevent programme and then still perpetuating extreme extremists narratives that is genuinely taking the make of the entire system. and it's appalling . but system. and it's appalling. but thatis system. and it's appalling. but that is happening. i must read out some of our comments that we're getting in because we're getting in loads. people are very this indeed, very upset about this indeed, craig says. blatantly clear craig says. it's blatantly clear that report was calling that if this report was calling out so—called far right extremism, then the names and groups would be named . i do groups would be named. i do think that is probably true. you know, i'm a i think some of them will be. yeah i mean, for example, we've seen national action proscribed quite rightly

. and there are islamist groups who have also been prescribed quite rightly. i think what we need to be conscious of is there are two questions here. one is the right process for identifying people who are likely to be radicalised. whoever they are working . and whoever they are working. and secondly, once they have been identified, is the process of deradicalisation working and for me as a taxpayer and as someone who believes that we should have good government, that works well. those are the questions i want to see answered in this report. i want to report. and that's why i want to see the report published, i see the report published, so i can assess what they're can then assess what they're saying about how well the program working. but what program is working. but what you're talking about is prescribing organisations you're talking about is pra cribing organisations you're talking about is pra much] organisations you're talking about is pra much higherisations than is a much higher threshold than what normally deals with what prevent normally deals with the about organised the event is about organised nafions the event is about organised nations that are operating below that threshold but are still radicalising people. it's essentially and ears essentially having eyes and ears in every community. that's, that's what's preventing us. that a different threshold. that is a different threshold. and we are and my worry is that we are moving towards system where moving towards a system where a very specific tool has become

too it's become an anti i too broad. it's become an anti i think has too broad. think it has become too broad. the program. i mean, the prevent program. i mean, michael reportedly said michael gove has reportedly said that prevent programme that the prevent programme should only focus on islamism because right terrorism is because far right terrorism is ideologically very different . ideologically very different. however, they also very much do feed off one another as we see in places like luton many years ago now actually you had the islamists and then you had the far right groups as they're called, essentially battling it out for who owned the area, essentially . and so you see essentially. and so you see these two groups of people who are so radicalised, essentially . yeah i mean, for a £40 million budget, it can't do everything . budget, it can't do everything. £40 million. i know. i mean, i'd love dozens of people these days, but it doesn't go that far these days. certainly with these days. certainly not with these days. certainly not with the but so you the cost of living, but so you do need to have something that's focussed and has a set of objectives that it can be measured of these groups to actually buy into it and actually buy into it and actually to want to be a part of it. well, we should be buying up

and signing up to the principles it with. and they're it agrees with. and if they're not, they not be the not, then they should not be the ones funding. but ones receiving funding. but yeah, time and yeah, i mean, we hear time and time that, you know, time again that, you know, mosques are hosting extremist preachers. we at preachers. we here at universities having universities are having extremist speakers . we hear that extremist speakers. we hear that children in schools are being indoctrinated in one way or another. it really is very difficult. i'm going to read out one more comment before we go to the . break let's say ian says the. break let's say ian says there is only one plausible reason why the home office and some mp want to redact sections of the prevent report naming extremist organisations. and that the home office that is that the home office officials and employees involved a closet supporters of those. i don't don't think don't think that i don't think thatis don't think that i don't think that is the case. i think if anything, it must it may be that they are genuinely worried about being sued . and so what if it's being sued. and so what if it's true then ? so what? they're true then? so what? or they're worried about cultural sensitivities . anyway, thank you sensitivities. anyway, thank you for getting in touch. coming up, more than a million burglaries and thefts were dropped by cops

in the last year. should they spend more time solving serious crimes like burglary and theft and not things like monitoring all twitter posts, all we actually a bit of a lawless britain at the moment. we'll be back in a couple of minutes to get stuck into that .

welcome back to dewbs& co with nate emily carver. now you've been getting through to me thick and fast with all of your tweets and fast with all of your tweets and emails. i just want to go to and emails. i just want to go to a few of them before we move on to police and burglaries. peter says this cowardly government says if this cowardly government are too scared to name the terrorist supporting entities for legal challenge , why for fear of legal challenge, why can't mvp's simply name them can't the mvp's simply name them in a debate in parliament? now imagine the likes of louie anderson will probably wouldn't hold back. he probably dished

the dirt. i suspect so. but i think the second this comes the floor of the house, there will be a clamour to name organisations that have come into contact with because of course on a daily basis course mvp's on a daily basis are doing the kind of social work that means that they know where are in where these groups are in communities. will their communities. it will be their local councils very much will be telling and telling them if they don't. and we thing we can we hope the one thing we can touch of course is touch on of course is universities and the radicalisation that on, radicalisation that goes on, on campuses. that's campuses. i mean that's something needs addressed something needs to be addressed really, urgently. yes, it really, really urgently. yes, it really, really urgently. yes, it really add our prisons really does add in our prisons and which is totally, and of course which is totally, completely to police completely difficult to police the internet and during lockdowns, we saw reports that extremism may well rise as a result of that. emma what do you think? let me read out one of our one of our responses here . our one of our responses here. keith says, isn't this like giving the school bully your dinner money so he doesn't beat you up in a way? i mean , yes and you up in a way? i mean, yes and no, keith is it's like trying to

change people from above and working with the people who may be themselves was further along the islamic process than you might be or the islamists are not the islamic state. islamism islamist, islamist process. i do apologise very , but actually apologise very, but actually bringing them back into the mainstream and then having the people that trust them brought into the mainstream behind them is not a bad approach as long as it's working. but as long as they're actually doing what they say they're doing. and that's why need have proper, why you need to have a proper, robust system monitoring robust system that's monitoring it. yeah, i mean, judy. judy says you, julie, for says thank you, julie, for writing seriously writing it. i'm seriously concerned actually concerned about who is actually running office. it running the home office. it seems they actively engaged seems they are actively engaged in everything they can to in doing everything they can to stop the government doing anything public anything that the general public support judy, that's support. i think, judy, that's probably a nod the rwanda probably a nod to the rwanda policy as well and their attempts to try and stop the small boats crisis , which has small boats crisis, which has been thwarted every step of the

way, one might argue. i mean, i would say that prevent is and the counterterrorism strategy is not necessarily a political football. it doesn't change every time there's a new home secretary. it is a continued process. but it's very clear to me i disagree entirely. i do believe any organisation promoting the destruction of the state that allows us these fantastic freedoms are british society? no organisation planning to destroy those ? those planning to destroy those? those values we hold so dear should get a penny of tax. but that's not what i was saying at all. well, i was saying is there well, what i was saying is there are people who will say change the state have different the state but have different values wish to values that they would wish to see but within as long see promoted, but within as long as up to do that, as they can sign up to do that, within the system, then they within the system, and then they can their people along can bring their people along behind people who behind with them, the people who trust them. i'm not saying that we should be funding al—qaeda or isis. saying that are isis. i'm saying that there are people say people who have would say a different way of the state working, but within the democratic and democratic process. and it's like piece of the people we're like a piece of the people we're talking to. there are people who have audience. can have that audience. if we can turn trusted people

turn them into trusted people that we trusted partners and with a robust oversight system, then i think that works better than just telling people they're wrong . i think that sounds nice wrong. i think that sounds nice in theory, but i do think a lot of people watching at home and probably majority the probably the majority of the british fed up of us british public are fed up of us being tolerant those who being tolerant towards those who are in tolerant of us, of values, our norms, our way of life, our belief system, everything that matters to us as people living in this country and from this country, but anyway, we're going to move on to the police, according to new analysis by the labour party, more than 1 million burglaries and thefts were dropped by police last year without them finding suspects and forces in england, wales ending investigations at the same time, home office data reveals that the proportion of all crimes that resulted in an arrest and charge had fallen to 5.4, down from 15% seven years ago. i imagine many of you at home to face this situation. you've had a burglar or theft. you've reported it to the police. they

may even have seen cctv. they may even have seen cctv. they may have even been able to see the criminals. that's may have even been able to see the criminals . that's what the criminals. that's what happenedin the criminals. that's what happened in my case. anyway and still giving you a letter a couple of days later saying they're closing the case. i know my parents have had their connect and they just got a crime reference number for insurance purposes is no real effort to find those criminals. it does feel as though there's no point in even phoning the police for what some deem to be more crimes . police for what some deem to be more crimes. so emma , i'd more minor crimes. so emma, i'd like to get your view on this. what do you think is the issue? i imagine you're going to say funding? well funding is a big, big part of it, but also, we have made an awful of things have made an awful lot of things . the police's responsibility that shouldn't be the police's responsibility. we have made an awful lot of things lock up offences that shouldn't be lock up offences and as like what? well i mean just most of female prisoners are not in prison for violent crime for example . there violent crime for example. there are an awful lot of steps paying

the bbc licence fee. i mean one of the things is the licence fee, but there are an awful lot of other things that would be more contentious i suspect on this channel. but what i'm saying is that we have a broad swath of things that people are supposed to go through. the criminal justice system for the probably we should take out of the criminal justice system. that might be things that are less controversial in this channel. like, for example, twitter policing twitter likes and policing people's which people's twitter, which is ridiculous , but also things ridiculous, but also things where there might be more more controversial aspects of it, like , for example, expressing like, for example, expressing views that are contrary to democracy as long as they're donein democracy as long as they're done in a peaceful format, there are an awful lot of things the police are not able to do because they have this broad swath of things that they are supposed to do. so, yes, we absolutely need to mend funding, but we also need to really, really take a moment and it's really take a moment and it's really hard to do this in government. hard to government. it's really hard to do and out of do this in and out of government. actually think,

government. but actually think, what do we want our criminal justice to be and to do justice system to be and to do and and how does that and to achieve and how does that work the politics work best and take the politics out it ? think work best and take the politics out it? think about what out of it? think about what works, what actually will stop. people recommit crimes, stop people reoffending , stop people people reoffending, stop people getting to the point where they're the first they're offending in the first place and what should be a crime and what should be punishable and what should be punishable and should actually done and what should actually be done in way . those are in a different way. those are i think, the three fundamental questions that we haven't really asked ourselves in this country for. probably since modern, modern policing existed . and modern policing existed. and now, of course, we're at the system where you're quite right. the only reason i would call the police now if i got burgled is for the insurance purposes. yeah police now if i got burgled is f

the police ? i think, you know, the police? i think, you know, for a number of years, clearly the police went down over use of smart or intelligent policing where they can sit behind a computer and somehow make streets safer. that's clearly over.i streets safer. that's clearly over . i mean, streets safer. that's clearly over. i mean, the streets safer. that's clearly over . i mean, the 2019 over. i mean, the 2019 conservative manifesto promised 20,000 more police officers that to me is a very, very good first step. but you know. but isn't the counter to that ? that was the counter to that? that was it. theresa may reduced the number of arrests on the beat and that trend is now being reversed, i think, correctly. but it's very clear to me that the crimes , no matter how low the crimes, no matter how low the crimes, no matter how low the other financial impact, can have a disastrous impact on individuals lives. i'm thinking particularly of , you know, an particularly of, you know, an elderly person who gets the handbag stolen or a burglary in someone's home, even it may even be someone's home, even it may even b e £500 worth of stuff nicked. be £500 worth of stuff nicked. actually, person's to actually, that person's going to feel and have feel violated and have severe mental health difficulties . so, feel violated and have severe merknow,alth difficulties . so, feel violated and have severe mer know, i.th difficulties . so, feel violated and have severe merknow, i would culties . so, feel violated and have severe merknow, i would veryas . so, feel violated and have severe merknow, i would very much , feel violated and have severe merknow, i would very much like you know, i would very much like the police to stop doing the kind of pr stuff of the last ten years. so i don't know why they all have social media accounts

where they like to tweet about pride, or, you know, that pride, events or, you know, that this is how you report hate speech and hate crime, a non crime hate incident and all of this rubbish. i do think that the government is in a way to be blamed or previous governments for making the law so complicated, complex . it it i complicated, complex. it it i mean, i don't know if you've ever tried to read the hate crime legislation, for example. i mean, all legislation is written in a way that is absolutely baffling to any normal person . and again, on my normal person. and again, on my safety bill, if that finally goes through, that will add another this is the another layer of this is the thing. there are there is we keep adding laws and things that people will become illegal without looking at the system. and the system is incredibly broken and we so sorry to interrupt, but it's very important that if you make something a crime, people will believe that it will be acted upon. if someone is cool . i upon. if someone is cool. i mean, what i pointed out was you may not have may as well not have a law. yeah, we can argue

and we have argued will argue. and so we're blue in the face about the online safety bill, what it have, what it what it should have, what it shouldn't have, what how it shouldn't have, what how it should be enforced, how it shouldn't but shouldn't be enforced. but ultimately, adding ultimately, we're just adding more a pot we're more crimes to a pot that we're not enforcing anyway. not we're not enforcing anyway. so the point? and this so what is the point? and this is why i come back to that fundamental re—examination of what to think about. what we need to think about. just so just hasn't happened for so long. burglary has been a long. but burglary has been a crime for very long crime correctly for very long time. i don't think time. and it's not i don't think it's about the crimes. i think it's about the crimes. i think it's operational it's about the operational decisions made. they decisions police have made. they have decision in some have made a decision in some forces for the last ten years to focus on pr actions rather than actual safety. and so you go actual safety. so and so you go trust police is so low at the trust in police is so low at the moment. i mean, you know what we're talking about is the day to experience of anyone to day experience of anyone living pretty anywhere in living pretty much anywhere in the is that the trust the uk, which is that the trust in is dire. what we in the police is dire. what we need do is more visible need to do is have more visible police presence on the streets and trust in the and more kind of trust in the individual copper being able to actually be a part society. actually be a part of society. i think it's also important that we i come from we bring back. so i come from a small market town, that's where

my me the fact my home is. and for me the fact that i the name of the police officer doing that, doing the piece do piece everyday, really i do indeedis piece everyday, really i do indeed is a really powerful thing, in cities that that thing, but in cities that that doesn't you doesn't that doesn't happen. you can't him. well that can't mess with him. well that guy east london how. guy in east london that's how. yeah he you know he would tell me if if i'd had a few too me if i, if i'd had a few too many beers on a nice you telling me than immediately me off rather than immediately being of the law being the full force of the law then that of neighbourhood then that kind of neighbourhood actual fashioned actual genu in old fashioned community policing with more police on the street. community policing with more poli not on the street. community policing with more poli not i'm on the street. community policing with more poli not i'm less] the street. community policing with more poli not i'm less interestedt. community policing with more poli not i'm less interested in i'm not i'm less interested in this debate about what new laws are created, burglary, this debate about what new laws are like reated, burglary, this debate about what new laws are like thatd, burglary, this debate about what new laws are like thatd, blknow. but things like that. you know. but that's mean, i'm i'm that's i mean, i'm i'm not saying we burglary out of saying we take burglary out of this let's go back to this list. let's go back to first base, back to first principle. i think that's an operation. no failure, not alleged . it may i just say to alleged. it may i just say to fix that i think and see if see if our viewers see if our viewers agree. first, leigh, i'm not convinced as to why police officers need to be graduates. now i have absolutely no idea why that would be. i think graduates are less to want to get their hands dirty and it may

remove them from the real life well beyond the type of lifestyle they may not wish to work the crazy hours that new recruits have too. i also think we should call it a police force and not a police service. just because i think you should fear the police . you should trust the police. you should trust them. but also have an element of fear . i do them. but also have an element of fear. i do think that a lot of fear. i do think that a lot of these, frankly, feral young people causing trouble on the streets have absolute no respect, no fear for the police force that's trying to keep things under control. derek force that's trying to keep things under control . derek says things under control. derek says the police in the united kingdom are no longer fit for purpose. the public, no longer have any faith in its ability to tackle crime. politicians of all persuasions have created the situation over several decades. no surprises there, most of no surprises there, as most of them not fit for purpose them are not fit for purpose ehhen them are not fit for purpose either. really is a either. god, there really is a lot well , disappointment, lot of well, disappointment, anger and perhaps rage at the moment going around with absolutely everything. it seems, andrew says if another member of my family are killed, murdered because this government or

police their jobs police can't do their jobs properly, personally take properly, i will personally take the own hands and the law into my own hands and i'll justice one way or the i'll get justice one way or the other. if another member of your family. i'm sorry to hear family. well, i'm sorry to hear that. family members that. one of your family members was . stay there was killed. stay safe out there . and yes, alan says, oh, david says pc now stands for politically correct . well a lot politically correct. well a lot of people do think that with all the woke stories . anyway, we're the woke stories. anyway, we're going to be moving on from that. please do keep your messages coming through because i'll be reading them out and respond adding. michael gove adding. coming up, michael gove again a £1.4 again has announced a £1.4 billion devolution deal for the north—east of england. plan north—east of england. the plan would seven local would bring seven local authority under the authority areas under the control one elected mayor in control of one elected mayor in 2024 is more devolution. the way to level up or more elected mayors? last thing this mayors? the last thing this country will stuck country needs will get stuck right that. after the .

break yes . back to dewbs& co now. yes. back to dewbs& co now. you've been getting in touch about the police force, whether you trust it. and it doesn't seem like many of you do. at the moment, francis says the pc woke diverse. in fact, it pulls police forces of the uk are more interested in joining parades and protests than doing their real job protecting our country from crime and keeping us . linda from crime and keeping us. linda says the bobby on the beat needs to come back. that's what will and emma was saying really, policing the community is the policing in the community is the nipping the bud that is nipping in the bud that is needed police to know needed for local police to know what going on. swanning what is going on. swanning around cars wearing around in police cars wearing sunglasses, pretending to be something american something out of an american movie the mustard . i movie doesn't cut the mustard. i love the creative use of language . really create an language. really create an image. got this image of image. i've got this image of this car just, you know, image. i've got this image of this carjust, you know, going this car just, you know, going around with its, you know, just sunglasses . two bobbies on the sunglasses. two bobbies on the beat. well, not so much on the beat. well, not so much on the beat. thank you very much for getting in touch. and please do keep into getting in touch. we're to moving on to we're going to be moving on to the because they're the north—east because they're going get an elected mayor

going to get an elected mayor apparently an histori c £1.4 apparently in an historic £1.4 billion devolution deal. the levelling secretary michael levelling up secretary michael gove the to gove has announced the plans to give more, say in how the give locals more, say in how the region is run to boost up the levelling up agenda. britain already london, already has mayors in london, manchester birmingham. so manchester and birmingham. so are mayors a good i dear are elected mayors a good i dear emma? yes 1,000,000% they are more city cons . i mean i know more city cons. i mean i know that he's not you're , not his that he's not you're, not his favourite but i mean frankly it's a date, say i'm his favourite, he's not mine. if sadiq khan has done nothing else in his career, referring back to the discussion, getting rid the last discussion, getting rid of dick absolute boss of cressida dick absolute boss move . i we are one of the most move. i we are one of the most over central countries in the western world. we are far too dependent on one street in london and it is not in touch with the rest of country. it is really important that people who are making decisions are much closer to the ground and we are much better able and it's been proved time and time again in countries very similar to ours

all over the world, that when you have areas and places where you have areas and places where you can make real important financial decisions much, much closer to where people live, you will raise productivity. you will raise productivity. you will raise productivity. you will raise local income. you will raise local income. you will be able to make really important decisions that will make us much, much better able to the productivity fight. yes i agree with you to an extent . but agree with you to an extent. but surely what's happening in this devolution pact is essentially that money is being just redistributed. but it from a big pot and then there won't be enough accountability surely theyif enough accountability surely they if you want proper devolution they should have to raise the taxes. absolutely as well. the next step, 100. you won't get any argument from me on that. i'm very much a deflation nest and i think they should have local tax raising powers to absolutely, certainly. but more importantly than but what more importantly than what's been devolved is not just pots of money, but decision making. because at the moment, far much money comes far too much money that comes from whitehall with from whitehall comes with strings. you can spend strings. it says you can spend

this could spend this money, be could only spend it this rather than here's it on this rather than here's the money. you work out how to best spend it in your area for your people that you have been locally elected by and that's really important. of really important. part of devolution. that we'll devolution. i worry that we'll give politicians give second rate politicians more power. think more power. well, i think actually there's a big difference between the london sadiq khan and a of these sadiq khan and a lot of these directly elected mayors outside london. well, so sadiq london. tell me, well, so sadiq khan a big, khan in london, it's a big, glitzy , fancy, all singing, all glitzy, fancy, all singing, all dancing , pr loving madness , dancing, pr loving madness, essentially the mayorship, the best piece goes to see the in places like, you know , east places like, you know, east india and others is that outside london, mayors are and should quite rightly be local people who are genuinely not out for pr stunt but are making a concerted effort to gain investment from their area. when mayors are most powerful is bringing together lots of different local councils , organisations together to ask for single packages of funding. for so instance, whether it's road investment or whether it's support for a new airport, like with ben hooton . but actually,

with ben hooton. but actually, you know, there is a major thing here, right, which is that where do you put michael gove as the most effective domestic policy minister that this country has had probably 20 years? you've had in probably 20 years? you've put where put him in the places where reform is badly needed and local councils and local thought. i was a councillor for eight years, badly needs reform. there's an enormous amount of money by councils . it's money spent by councils. it's i think 55 billion. last year is a huge pot of public money and yet there is very little of how councils actually do go about spending money. so i think any reform of local government is welcome. i'm particularly pleased mayors , any pleased that more mayors, any reform the right direction reform in the right direction and i think this this is a good example of emma, i worry example of that. emma, i worry that you end up doing, as we've seen with scotland in particular, is that you had more devolve powers to areas the country . and essentially what country. and essentially what you get is vastly different politics in different areas and essentially a bit of a balkanisation of the country , balkanisation of the country, lots of different politicians ,

lots of different politicians, one another for their own ideological reasons. i would disagree with that. i think we do have a country where there are vast differences and at the moment it's winner takes all at the centre. and that's not really whether we have a labour government or we have a conservative government. that's not fair on the people who disagree with who might disagree with them, who might live in a part of the country when vast numbers don't agree with that centralised government and will be true if keir starmer's elected in 2024. most likely election date for well and people who agree with him and people who agree with him and probably i'm guessing oxfordshire is pretty safe tory area whatever else has not been they've got we've got the most woke county council in the country about and he's going around banning meat and that's a whole other story but 1 billion county councillor. yeah we can all feel better represented if they there are a range of representation and i agree in theory , i just worry that in theory, i just worry that in practise it all gets rather

messy . and with this model which messy. and with this model which is essentially just chucking money at various areas of the country that you want to level up and hoping for the best, surely you know these are the best in nsw. well that's right . best in nsw. well that's right. you know, if they can change their tax regime if those areas of the country want to be an enterprise zone and they're directly elected mayor fights on that. that's what they get for, that. that's what they get for, that money. if they want to do something else, what they something else, that's what they get. democracy. get. that's democracy. that's the it. we fight and the beauty of it. we fight and argument then the winner argument and then the winner gets to do what they want to do. but that happen. am but that shouldn't happen. i am just i'm just at the centre. i'm desperately to put the desperately trying to put the case it. against this, case against it. against this, you are putting up a pretty good fight . i just don't. you are putting up a pretty good fight. i just don't. i you are putting up a pretty good fight . i just don't. i don't fight. ijust don't. i don't like mayors. i just think they're i think they have too much power and sense of importance. but perhaps i'm wrong. and that's just my own prejudice. that's come from nowhere, really. says the nowhere, really. mary says the new northeast mayor is as useless as the sharma has useless as the alok sharma has been. so don't bother. let we 90,

been. so don't bother. let we go, simon says. mayor for the northeast, they can have tomorrow for saying it. tomorrow useless for saying it. i don't think that's your name. i don't think that's your name. i think we spelt it wrong. the 1.4 billion devolution package is that handing over 1.4 billion devolution package is that handing ove r £1.4 is that handing over £1.4 billion or is this just what the tax remit to? tax and spend remit amounts to? i more of the latter by assume the north—east mayor can bid for grants . some technical language grants. some technical language there . i'm not what the there. i'm not sure what the answer is . i think is just answer is. i think this is just essentially handing over redistributing some money from the wider government , from the the wider government, from the part at the treasury . part at the treasury. essentially, i don't think they'll have any more powers of raising money, but perhaps i'm wrong on that . and michael says wrong on that. and michael says , oh, no, that's on bets on prevent . alex says devolution prevent. alex says devolution means more bureaucrats on the pubuc means more bureaucrats on the public sector gravy train, blaming each other for the lack of efficiency. that is exactly what worry about. we'll come back to this, but coming up, have eaten too much over the have you eaten too much over the christmas period ? are your eyes christmas period? are your eyes bigger than your belly ? why wait bigger than your belly? why wait until 2023 to start your diet ? until 2023 to start your diet? don't worry, i'm not fat shaming

it. will digesting in it. we will be digesting this in just one moment.

yes. welcome back to dewbs& co with me, emily calvert in for the lovely michelle. we were talking about devolution, whether this big plan for a £1.4 billion devolution deal with the nonh billion devolution deal with the north east and an elected mayor to serve over seven local authority areas is a good idea. do we need more mayors? ivan says, please, please, no more mayors. look london mayor, he is power mad john says scrap devolution throughout the uk and treat all areas of the uk equally . bob treat all areas of the uk equally. bob says as a treat all areas of the uk equally . bob says as a sussex equally. bob says as a sussex councillor at a district level for 20 years on county for 12, my cv until may this year when i retired , i think in unitary retired, i think in unitary authority for the whole of

sussex with an elected someone would be good for democracy. paul says. we're a very small country. we don't need more mayors . as andrew says, why mayors. as andrew says, why don't the tories return the north—east back to the shipbuilding powerhouse we used to be ? it was the tories who to be? it was the tories who decimated the industry 30 years ago. and you haven't forgotten you could put that to them , i you could put that to them, i guess, although i'm not sure you'll get a response from mps. they don't tend to be too forthcoming anyway. we're going to be moving on because we're going to be talking about fat shaming. well, not fat shaming. whether you're ready to go on a diet after all the festive or perhaps you would jogging and eating healthily throughout the festive period and for many, it's still very much is the festive until after the festive period until after the new year. so while you sitting on the sofa full of regret and a bloated stomach, are you worried about gym memberships come january? i'm asking this because experts at the british dietetic dietetic association have warned against fad diets. the old diet,

the water diet, the keto diet are just some of the temporary solutions to beating the bulge. so well, i'll start with you. are you going to be taking up a fad diet? but if the atkins not the any of the other side, kind of. do you think? i mean, probably not the fad diets that i do try and do a bit of running and probably less of the pints in january because december is, you know, one of those times of year where let our head year where we all let our head out. at the end of the day, out. but at the end of the day, viewers not surprised to viewers will not be surprised to learn probably could do learn that i probably could do of a few pounds. i am of losing a few pounds. i am actually looking forward not actually looking forward to not losing much. haven't had losing so much. i haven't had a dfink a losing so much. i haven't had a drink a year and drink for nearly a year and a half. oh, congratulations. so i'm going to be edging my way back in and in the spring. but do feel feel better for it? do you feel feel better for it? it was a necessary step at the time . i drank too much and. but time. i drank too much and. but i. it's interesting not drinking, actually. and how many times i've found that i haven't needed to drink, that i would have just naturally had one. why

do you need a glass of one at the theatre? it just makes me sleepy. yeah. so it's made me think about those choices and i think about those choices and i think more important than think much more important than fad dieting is thinking about making choices . so now i do making good choices. so now i do slimming world. i love it. i'm a massive evangelist it. massive evangelist for it. they're the ones with those ideals and things. no no, no, no, slimming not no, no. slimming world is not and at all. it's none and things at all. it's none of that is very , very simple that it is very, very simple system where you count sins and it the equivalent of weight watchers points. and it's just a way of eating sensibly and being conscious of it . they also have conscious of it. they also have a system of body magic where you make sure that you're upping your exercise is basically the bafic your exercise is basically the basic rules of it, but done in a way that you have this lovely group of communities sport that you go to every week that you check with other. i've check in with each other. i've lost a fair amount through it. i'm sure your viewers can tell. i'm sure your viewers can tell. i could do with losing a few more. i'm i absolutely more. i'm sure i absolutely cannot. but i'm keen if cannot. but i'm very keen if anyone anything about you anyone says anything about you sitting there. and oil painting anyway . but

sitting there. and oil painting anyway. but i'm i'm very keen to hit my target in the next year. ihave hit my target in the next year. i have target you have a target slimming world and you know exactly if you do your weekly progression with it and here's the other thing. i will not have scales in my house. i weigh myself once a week on the sydney well that scales every well scale that scales every week and i don't look at it every and don't obsess every day and i don't obsess over i think about what i'm over it. i think about what i'm eating, i think about the exercise i'm getting, i'm not looking at the scale. this looking at the scale. well, this is problem. people so is the problem. people get so obsessed, have you obsessed, don't they? have you ever to running or ever been addicted to running or not addicted ? no. rising not addicted? no. rising tv. ever that buzz? what you ever had that buzz? what you feel like? yeah , i don't. feel like? yeah, yeah, i don't. i do it more than so. so ijust i do it more than so. so i just very i a few days ago, i had it because i'm a reservist. i had to do a training program. and suddenly nowhere start suddenly out of nowhere start running and k every running five and ten k every couple times a week. and couple of times a week. and i found it is actually quite good fun. but, but i, but i also, i also never want to become one of those boring people who won't talk about anything than talk about anything other than exercise. say, there exercise. yes, i must say, there is of young man who

is a genre of young man who whose whole personality is jim and weights and what not me. i just read out a couple of what advice on this says i've eaten so much over christmas, but i don't care. i'm treating myself fair enough , thomas i've fair enough, thomas says. i've been this morning. it been to the gym this morning. it was struggle, but now i'm was a struggle, but now i'm eating quality streets. eating quality, quality streets. i that's what we call i think that's what we call balance. tom anyway, thank you very that is all have very much. that is all we have time for evening. we have. time for this evening. we have. well course, i've forgotten well of course, i've forgotten your . well, your surname. oh, well, of course . and emma burnell with us course. and emma burnell with us this evening. thank you very much now, nigel farage much indeed. now, nigel farage will with us 7:00. i think will be with us at 7:00. i think he's here now actually . is he he's here now actually. is he here ? various what's coming up here? various what's coming up on the show indeed, will? well, it's a full menu. but we're going to begin with the fact that the energy providers keep putting up our direct debits, building up , putting up our direct debits, building up, in many cases, substantial cash , positive substantial cash, positive balances in our and very few of us ever read the small print anew that they were going to do this. i'd ask the question all

of the energy providers are robbing us as consumers. is that much else? the debate coming up at the top of the hour before all of that, let's get the all important weather out . hello important weather out. hello there. i'm cleansing with you. a weather. it's a lively night into thursday morning . rain into thursday morning. rain showers, some clearer skies, strong winds and also some hills. now that all courtesy of an area of low pressure to the south of that, that's where we've seen the coastal gales overnight as that weather fronts stores across the far north of scotland and rain will return to the northwest . so overnight, a the northwest. so overnight, a lot of wet weather around a batch of showers will merge to form a longer spell of wet weather across northern england. wales, pushing wales, west country pushing eastwards as more rain returns to the central belt. western parts scotland and northern parts of scotland and northern ireland the hours ireland through the early hours of morning. cold start in of the morning. a cold start in the north, relatively mild. further south, but showers never too far away . however, through too far away. however, through the morning will some the morning there will be some sunshine and sunshine around central and eastern areas of england where the showers clear northern england and this mass of showery

rain will move from northern ireland, western scotland to towards east. now, of towards the east. now, of course, england, the world's most down towards most burst, will be down towards the , where we'll see the southwest, where we'll see the southwest, where we'll see the heavier one, but the winds won't be as strong as wednesday. even these showers could be even so these showers could be heavy. some sunshine in between temperatures not as high either. now through thursday evening, we'll see a lot of the showers ease could even see the risk of some ice across the far north—east of scotland as rain returns to northern ireland. this rain is heavy. in fact, the met office has issued a warning for rain across central for heavy rain across central and of scotland and southern parts of scotland into friday. the risk of into friday. again, the risk of some over the higher some snow over the higher ground as thickening cloud on friday bfings as thickening cloud on friday brings spells of wet brings further spells of wet weather towards wales. the west country. the winds pick up country. as the winds pick up some . so let's a some strength. so let's have a look at rain as it across look at that rain as it across england and wales more rain across scotland and northern ireland northern ireland clearing northern ireland clearing northern ireland the day, ireland later on in the day, putting in that under putting cold in that wind under all here's your all that cloud. and here's your outlook into the new year weekend . we lose the strength of weekend. we lose the strength of the wind . we gain some dry

the wind. we gain some dry skies, always the chance skies, but always the chance of some the south—east on .

sunday tonight on barrage , all the tonight on barrage, all the energy companies literally robbing that customer. energy companies literally robbing that customer . as we'll robbing that customer. as we'll talk about the tax situation and what are the tories thinking , what are the tories thinking, we'll look at a worsening situation in ukraine and joining me on talking points , former me on talking points, former chelsea owner ken bates , a man chelsea owner ken bates, a man never shy of giving an opinion. all of that comes out after the news headlines with ray addison . tha news headlines with ray addison. tha latest from the gb newsroom. two

men have been arrested on