sunday welcome along. wonderful i'm patrick christys covering for the great my south mark steyn boy do we have a good show for you this evening? first up, alan mendoza, executive director of the henry jackson society , will the henry jackson society, will be here to discuss whether the prevent program is disproportionately focussed on right wing extremist them, which is hardly been the major source of terror attacks over the past few decades how it then few decades. now how is it then we our very own charlie we have our very own charlie peters here to a look at peters here to take a look at the act 2010, which the equality act 2010, which elevates values into the deep

facto state. religion should we burn it? let's find out. and some asked what hays is here to talk the sacred cow of british politics that is our beloved nhs . and last but of course not least, the wonderful kara kennedy from . the spectator kennedy from. the spectator world will be here, shall we? discussing whether millennials should be stick it to the baby boomers or whether they should be bowing reverence be bowing down in reverence before our elders cutting out their avocados and putting every penny aside so they can maybe just get a shrek chat . ownership just get a shrek chat. ownership of a wombat in walthamstow by say oh i don't know the middle of the century also , please send of the century also, please send in your well—wishes for mark will read them out and we'll out as many as we can stick around all coming up after the news with radisson . thank you, with radisson. thank you, patrick. here's the latest merseyside police say 28 year old man remains a critical condition following the fatal of a woman in the wirral on

christmas eve. 26 year old elle edwards was shot in the head while celebrating with family at the lighthouse in three other men were injured . a man and men were injured. a man and a woman have been arrested in connection with the incident. police say they're trying to find the weapon used . the find the weapon used. the shooting . two men have been shooting. two men have been arrested on suspicion of murder in connection with the stabbing of a 23 year old man in a birmingham. semi—professional cody fisher was stabbed to death on the dance floor of the nightclub on boxing day . nightclub on boxing day. hundreds of people were there at time. his family say their hearts were broken following his death. west midlands police say a 22 year old was arrested in birmingham city centre whilst a 21 year old man was arrested in london . border force staff and london. border force staff and driving examiners are the latest to stage industrial action . to stage industrial action. members of the pcc's union at multiple uk airports are continuing their strike over jobs and conditions. meanwhile, driving examiners have begun a

five day walkout, affecting more than 70 testing centres in the east of england and the midlands . pope pope francis has asked for prayers for his predecessor former pope benedict saying he's very sick . the vatican says the very sick. the vatican says the 95 year old had a sudden worsening of his health but is receiving constant care. the former of the catholic church became the first pope in 600 years to resign when he stepped down in 2013. and provisional met office figures show 2022 has been the warmest year on record by the end of december. experts say have seen the highest annual average temperature. it'll beat the record set in 2014 of just under ten degrees celsius. the met says every month apart from december has been warmer than average. we're on tv, online and on disney plus radio. this is gp news . back now to .

news. back now to. patrick i wonder if some of the muslim community in britain are a protected group for years , protected group for years, police forces and politicians tripped over themselves to not reveal the true extent of the grooming gang scandal because it didn't want to stoke racial tensions . another way of looking tensions. another way of looking at this is that it actually protected predominantly british pakistani rape gangs. protected predominantly british pakistani rape gangs . the pakistani rape gangs. the public, for a period of time . public, for a period of time. prosecution people suffered as a result of that . i wonder whether result of that. i wonder whether or not this is happening all over again now with the prevent programme. prevent is a scheme designed to stop people becoming radicalised, but it's that some groups who taxpayers money are part of the prevent scheme and are actually promoting extreme . are actually promoting extreme. shock. horror. well surely these groups should be named, shouldn't they? surely the

pubuc shouldn't they? surely the public and the press have a right to know who these groups are so they can investigate them further and stop vulnerable people falling into their people from falling into their clutches. now , supposedly clutches. but now, supposedly home office are worried about naming them and then facing legal action. well firstly, if the allegations are true, then there should be no risk of legal . secondly, just don't think . secondly, i just don't think that's the real reason. i think the real reason is that they don't want . the inevitable don't want. the inevitable fallout. they will be accused of racism and of demonise in the muslim community at large. there will protests. it would kick will be protests. it would kick right there will be claims right off. there will be claims that it's ignoring the of the far right and that why nationalism doesn't get the same kind exposure. that's just nonsense . everybody knows that nonsense. everybody knows that far right, extreme islam is on the increase and that gets reported all the. but here are some numbers . the total number some numbers. the total number of islamist terror attacks and deaths since 2005. in the uk, 13 attacks, 106 killed. the total number of far right terror attacks and deaths since 2005. in the uk three attacks, three

killed, 35 times more people have been killed by islamist attacks . far right attacks in attacks. far right attacks in the uk since 2005. the british pubuc the uk since 2005. the british public could be forgiven for being afraid of radical islamist terrorists than far right terrorists than far right terrorists . and the british terrorists. and the british pubuc terrorists. and the british public has a right to know if islamic groups are taking taxpayers money from a counter program and actually radicalise people. but that would be wrong. apparently, according to the muslim council of britain. try this out. media spokesman in the muslim council of britain , muslim council of britain, mekdad versi, criticised report, which is yet to be published by the way, michael gove and its author william shawcross for trying to refocus, prevent on islamism rather than the far right. he and others have also criticised the report for supposedly trying to implicate names and organisations for promoting extremist narratives and have suggested this is an this infringement upon free expression. so freedom of expression. so freedom of

expression is okay if it's being used to turn people into extremists who may or may not go on to commit acts of jihad on the streets of britain. but freedom of expression does not exist . if people want to exist. if people want to highlight that fact and that people are being radicalised , go people are being radicalised, go figure . i find it strange that figure. i find it strange that in britain a christian woman silently praying in her own head outside an abortion clinic is arrested . but members of arrested. but members of a british pakistan grooming gang are essentially allowed to crack on crime. but the market terrorist who killed several people featured apparently in a channel 4 documentary called jihadi door, during which he unfurled an oasis flag in a park in london. he was allowed to go on and slaughter people. radical hate preachers have been welcomed into mosques, holds of men can openly call forjewish men can openly call for jewish blood on the streets of britain. coulter wrote their mothers for goodness sake . if the goodness sake. if the independent report into prevent reveals that some islamist groups have been taking taxpayers money and continuing to promote extremism and that

gets covered up by the state, then i have to ask why on earth are we tripping over ourselves to protect the very group of people who wish to actively destroy us? alan mendoza, executive director of the henry jackson society, is here. he joins me now to talk about this very matter. i am massively, massively concerned that the truth will not out in this case . well, it's worrying, isn't it, patrick, that we've had this row today about whether and what's happening with the review . i happening with the review. i mean, in my perspective , the mean, in my perspective, the review's been sitting on a shelf for some time. i gather it was finished last summer. it hasn't seen the light of day. we're not quite. why? hasn't the quite. why? it hasn't seen the light clearly there's light of day. clearly there's a row about its content and what should and not be should and should not be published. as you've quite published. and as you've quite rightly the rightly pointed out, in the interests only freedom of interests of not only freedom of expression, think in the expression, but i think in the interests of national, we kind of need know exactly the of need to know exactly the level land and the state of affairs exists with this affairs that exists with this very documents . i'm

very important documents. i'm hoping the loggerheads that hoping that the loggerheads that we've seen, you know, different departments come to an departments that will come to an end very soon. will see the end very soon. we will see the full, report out on full, unredacted report out on the so we can judge for the street so we can judge for ourselves in it. why is ourselves what's in it. why is it certain elements of the quotes and quotes? muslim community, this country, certain elements seem to be protected , elements seem to be protected, whereas other groups are unnecessarily so . as far as i unnecessarily so. as far as i can see, if people doing things wrong like, oh, i don't know, radicalising people , why should radicalising people, why should it not go that? why should there be a fear of a backlash to the well they shouldn't any fear a backlash to you sort of pointing out people are radicalising other people and the extremists within certain communities there wouldn't be a backlash if we pointed out, as you said earlier . right. extremists, no person from a similar community would go, oh, no, we can't talk about far right extremists. the reality is that the longer we hide the you know, the from people at home, the longer that, of course, terrorist attacks

occur. you highlighted some statistics earlier . another one statistics earlier. another one that we know is a year on year, the number of fatal terrorist attacks continues from radical muslims those of the far right. yet we still don't hear much about that. if we don't hear that, people are going to start wondering why we're not hearing that whether is indeed that and whether there is indeed a conspiracy. if you like, to keep the truth from coming out, who doesn't any good not who doesn't any good and not tell about these tell the truth about these issues can find issues because people can find out truth themselves and out the truth themselves and then are then understandably are concerned about why truth concerned about why that truth has not been revealed. i find it laughable that there even a nofion laughable that there even a notion that if the british pubuc notion that if the british public at large found out the true extent of things like the grooming gang scandal or where extremism really lies in this country, that there be some kind of monumental public physical uproar . we of monumental public physical uproar. we have had numerous terror attacks in this country and we have not had massive , and we have not had massive, wide scale, violent protests or demonstrations as a result, we've had vigils. we've had candles like had moments of silence. why you think the

british public are being insulted, like this. we can take the truth. well we can take the truth. and we should . getting truth. and we should. getting the truth . but there is a whole the truth. but there is a whole strata of thought, i think, within the civil service and beyond that want to tell the truth because it doesn't fit in with the politically correct version , the truth, which is version, the truth, which is that only x or y can be bad people in this are not sent in this regard, and we've all seen that across the board in many different areas. and this sort set up is just another of us being told a version of truth that we're supposed to accept when the actual truth is very different, but it doesn't do anyone any good, not tell the truth. patrick, i'm sure you truth. patrick, as i'm sure you realise, because people work realise, because people can work out themselves and out the facts themselves and that much worse. and that creates a much worse. and if can open an about the if you can open an about the situation in the first place and allow people to deal with that in them in the reasoned way, as you that we normally deal you said, that we normally deal with i have got with these things. i have got massive concerns about the rise of far right, and i don't of the far right, and i don't want to diminish that. know i

focussed here largely on islamism and i have focussed largely most extremism largely on his most extremism and no apology that . and i make no apology for that. however, am concerned the rise however, i am concerned the rise of the far right and it is. but my other concern is that i supposed cover up of the truth of his domestic extremism might actually lead to an increase in far right activity . well might far right activity. well might very well be the case because people will go look the state is hiding information from you. only we can solve the arms . and only we can solve the arms. and by the way, the response then of any upsurge in the far right is for muslims to also go, look, we told you they hated us . they do told you they hated us. they do hate us. these people are coming for us. you've got to join us in states the. problem of ignoring this that you then have this is that you then have a symbiotic relationship. the far right radical islam that right and radical islam that then feeds off other to then feeds off each other to continue recruit to their continue to recruit to their causes.in continue to recruit to their causes. in reality, what we should be doing is supporting moderates everywhere , cutting moderates everywhere, cutting off extremists from the off the extremists from the auction of publicity. but that requires us to be serious about where extremism coming from,

whether radical islam or whether is from radical islam or indeed far right it comes indeed far right when it comes to prevent as a body, as a thing . there have been criticisms of being overzealous both in terms of dealing people who are suspected of being far high. and at one point that, as far as i'm aware, did involve a child who expressed support for ukip. and there's also criticism of people being ropes in who frankly got nothing to do with radical nothing to do with the radical islamist who maybe islamist community who maybe misspoke school misspoke during school production . i think production or something. i think one time the word was taken out of context when they were talking about what was wrong with their family and actually is a little bit overzealous. we're that people we're hearing that 6000 people a year reported to them. is year are reported to them. is that an exaggeration of the of extremism this country? extremism in this country? do you. i think the reality of you. well i think the reality of having this independent review is to discover exactly is going wrong with prevent. that's a whole point. i think we all know those those where which you've just pointed out, they appear on the surface, at least to be completely ridiculous. at the same also know ,

same time as we also know, people who went on to commit terrorist attacks referred to it and did nothing to stop those people ultimately. so clearly there were failings at all levels of prevent which we have to grips with. and that's to get to grips with. and that's why this report is so important for us to receive, because it's a and considered study. a careful and considered study. and interest, said and in the interest, like i said earlier, national security, earlier, of national security, we this information we need to have this information us that we can judge accordingly how best to reform this program to make everyone in this country a bit safer. yeah. and that exposure can not be held back because of the risk of potentially offending some people who might react in a rather fashion to it. rather volatile fashion to it. i would did react would suspect if they did react hypothetically course in a rather volatile fashion to this, that that might explain exactly why they are in the interests of prevent. can i just ask you a question obviously, you are question now? obviously, you are heavily involved. heavily involved jackson involved with the henry jackson society just on the society and i am just on the author of this particular independent report prevent independent report into prevent was former member of the was also a former member of the henry jackson society . have you henry jackson society. have you spoken to william at all? is he

a bit miffed about this whole situation? well, you are correct that he is a former trustee of the having jackson side. he was long time ago. and we certainly have discussed the content have not discussed the content of review. it wouldn't be of this review. it wouldn't be right for us to have done so and if there's one thing william shawcross is as always, absolutely when comes absolutely correct when it comes to these forms of issues. so i'm afraid i can't give you any secrets about what is actually i that's why i'm waiting to see what's in it myself. yes. so alan, thank very much. alan, look, thank you very much. really the time for really appreciate the time for me show the me on this show element. the executive director the henry executive director of the henry jackson gb news jackson society. wow gb news resident documentary maker charlie peters is back the studio talking about why need to aboushin studio talking about why need to abolish in his view , the new abolish in his view, the new labour monstrosity that is the equality act 20. get your views in as well. gb news on gb news is uk. don't you dare go anywhere .

well as says this is the people's tunnel so let's channel the people since market digital healthcare we have had many kind messages from fans of the show and we wanted to share some of those with you and with mark crucially always watch this ad was bid on you have many talented presenters in the evenings. mark steyn show was the i tried not to mess get well see michelle says get better and come back soon you are more entertaining than piers morgan and at least you have integrity which is something he does pay is of course is not here to defend himself. no nor his twitter account any more. i say vow wishing i'm back on vow wishing you well i'm back on gb newsroom liberte and this is the final one. olympics get well soon we miss you even though patrick is doing a great job. thanks . okay. right now , in thanks mum. okay. right now, in a world of pregnant men knee taking millionaire footballers and gardening is racist ads in the guardian writing jokes and

owning the libs has never been easier for right of centre journalists, comics and critics . but what effect does it actually have in the areas that matter? the progressive agenda wins again and again. matter? the progressive agenda wins again and again . a left wins again and again. a left wing indoctrination continues unabated . schools, institutions unabated. schools, institutions up to preserve our heritage are committed to dismantling it. up to preserve our heritage are committed to dismantling it . the committed to dismantling it. the royal air force doesn't want to recruit men. private companies held hostage to hate your department's intense on ideological social engineering. and don't even get me started on the civil service or police force. the left liberal programme, despite being absurd than ever, is at the height of its power . but why is that? the its power. but why is that? the answer is simple. the new labour government made sure that and inclusion ideology was enshrined into law and millions of taxpayers money will pumped into its promotion every single year. today, with your maker teacher business, leader or wage slave. if you attempted the dictates of your enemies, the law will not

take your side . some years ago, take your side. some years ago, the great theodore dalrymple made the decision in between the propaganda of communism classes and the then burgeoning vernacular of political correctness in britain . the correctness in britain. the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince , not to inform, but to humiliate . and therefore, the humiliate. and therefore, the less it corresponded , the less it corresponded, the reality, the better. sound familiar. and you want to send two obvious lies. one standing to resist. and the thing is thus eroded and even destroyed, is song as if emasculated liars is easy to control. i think if you examine correctness, it has the same effect and intended to do so. yes exactly. that was not correct when backed by the less sends woke remakes, the more effective it seems to be . how effective it seems to be. how many of you out there need to keep silent or even keep repeating the dogmas themselves to keep hold of your jobs? to keep hold of yourjobs? you'll get sacked . you don't toe you'll get sacked. you don't toe the line, does not know overtime erode your pride and your to pipe up erode your pride and your to pipe up one bit spectacularly

egregious of legislation is the equality act 2010. i mean it's barely legislated actually is a surrender document it keeps progressives as the ascendant class regardless who wins the debate on any particular. well our very own charlie peters took it to absolute paces and a great article in the press this morning. i'm very pleased to say that charlie joins now charlie was the crack. well, here's the thing. i mean, on channel and many other excellent anti progressive anti woke areas of our broadcasting journalism people often have a go at these these woke ideologies , extreme these woke ideologies, extreme progressive politics. and it's very easy to do so because they come up with nonsense all the time. and as you said in your monologue, the police force and the rf saying you can't hire white never spend white men, but we never spend enough least i really enough time. at least i really diving why things diving into why these things exist. make these exist. why do people make these arguments? do they get away arguments? why do they get away with it? and what's the cause of these issues? and i've always thought that the politics that we creating institutions we have is creating institutions and that inform us and legislation that inform us is very, very progressive and

woke. and these areas of woke. and one of these areas of legislation is the equality act. and you mentioned it legislates , it puts into law as of 2010 these so—called protected characteristics, which is essentially the identity politics that we all relegate . politics that we all relegate. what can i ask, what are some of these characteristics? these protected characteristics? oh, religion sexual oh, it's race. religion sexual preference, political belief in some cases. i mean, it's such farce. had situations farce. we've had situations where vegans have been fighting nudists to see who can be the protected class in a certain dispute. it's the sentence politics, and it's not the warm fine for fury, wilder for because i've actually watched that we've got vegan versus nudist. sounds something nudist. it sounds something i would have done in the day would have done back in the day as a tabloid journalist. actually, i would have loved to have that. how have done that. but how protected a species is the straight white man ? what is the straight white man? what is the thing? everyone gets thing? i mean, everyone gets very the time, as they very upset all the time, as they should, and channel and should, and our channel and others, hear the bbc others, when we hear the bbc law, the areas of the public sector as nhs have job sector as the nhs have job adverts that ban white men. they said you need not apply for a white man. people get very distressed by this. they say

it's racist and they say that it goes against the equality act. but equality act but actually the equality act makes acceptable this. makes it acceptable to do this. it makes acceptable to say it makes it acceptable to say that than straight that anything than straight white a white men is if you are a straight white man, you not apply. so, i mean, say this is racist, got to get rid of it. but you know clearly is but you know it clearly is allowed proper allowed in the proper dictatorships usually children allowed in the proper di

these speeches and these incidents is because after 12 years of conservative rule, let's not forget the concept party at least performative party is at least performative the anti woke as a common sense group of meps who hate wokeness . yet after 12 years the . and yet after 12 years the government is still spending tens of pounds on tens of millions of pounds on diversity and inclusion . diversity and inclusion. equality programmes. so this lose of money creating these enemies that they they write against in the media, but they're funding them in the first place. but can someone who explains to me what is progress about the idea that male rapists who decide to identify women can enter a woman's space even when they are on bail for rape that apparently is pro—gay press? well, i mean, it's obscene stuff. i mean, the arguments they make kind of go against themselves in the first place. they don't make any logical, but the wildness of it is that while we can we can attack these arguments all time. we can arguments all the time. we can we lambaste them, as we do we can lambaste them, as we do in the media, as our politicians do, journalists do. do, as fellow journalists do. we're to win so long we're not going to win so long

as laws that defend these people and them employed is and that keeps them employed is still into their still flowing into their pockets. something to happen. pockets. so something to happen. clearly, politician clearly, if any politician particularly this particularly spoken against this legislation can be been knocked, i think a pretty fantastic. i think it's a pretty fantastic. and came this run for and b, you came out this run for the tory party and she was she's got a very kind of structural and legalistic assessment when it with it comes to dealing with wokeness and hopefully she'll develop a of an agenda develop more of a of an agenda in space. there are some in that space. there are some tories to it there tories who seem to get it there are some labour rights indeed you it but generally you get it but generally speaking, you know 100 employees and keen for this speaking, you know 100 employees an continue. keen for this speaking, you know 100 employees ancontinue. do keen for this speaking, you know 100 employees ancontinue. do youen for this speaking, you know 100 employees ancontinue. do you thinkthis speaking, you know 100 employees an continue. do you think that to continue. do you think that we day in this country we will one day in this country live in a world where there are law dedicated to anti law firms dedicated to anti white racism in the workplace and, in schools and wherever. well in a sense kind of already do have that. we have it we have a huge diversity and equalities industry is worth hundreds industry which is worth hundreds of millions of pounds. but all of millions of pounds. but all of training which of these training events which skyrocketed , the events skyrocketed since, the events involving george floyd in 2020, these this things is these things, this things is really on the rise and we complain a lot about cancel culture on this channel, which i

think great. you know, we think is great. you know, we really back against that censorious but isn't censorious ness but there isn't enough i think dedicated enough space i think dedicated asking does culture asking why does cancel culture exist well we have exist the law. well we have section of the communique section 1 to 7 of the communique as act of 2003, which defines gross the offence of speech as illegal and so today there was a case where a police officer had scalding hot water thrown in his face the perpetrator was face and the perpetrator was given a two year suspended sentence but a few sentence and a fine. but a few months i can remember a months ago, i can remember a case where some police officers were sent to jail for sharing jokes whatsapp . why do we jokes on whatsapp. why do we have cancel culture? well it's on yeah, i understand on the law. yeah, i understand what you're saying? that a lot of people would find that what the officers the police officers did absolutely . but absolutely abhorrent. but they also element of also found the other element of an abhorrent as well. an equally abhorrent as well. and i think there is a case where how's the equality actually or the actually done anything or the legislation actually tell anything a more anything to make us a more harmonious, less racist society. because if it has that, because if it has done that, some well, some people would say. well, that's just things that's good. so just things like, for example, charlie, the idea affirmative idea of affirmative action, positive, to positive, whatever you want to call in the workplace, even call it in the workplace, even if actually in someone

if that has actually in someone otherwise would have been victim to , you know, boardroom racism, to, you know, boardroom racism, getting a surely that's a good thing no. well you know i often find with these agendas they they generally don't create harmonious ness among differences they make people look at our differences more than what unites us and by focusing so much on you blind yourself . the common focusing so much on you blind yourself. the common humanity that binds us. what do you think? would you pigeonholed me. i think the world's an incredibly confusing place for kids. no, absolutely. i mean, for sure. mean, putting adult for sure. i mean, putting adult children , bringing children onto adult, bringing aduu children onto adult, bringing adult problems onto onto children all too often. and, you know , appliances common know, appliances from the common humanity all need. humanity that we all need. cherish. obviously. cherish. yeah, obviously. look, charlie you very, very charlie thank you very, very much, peaches out. very charlie thank you very, very muc little peaches out. very charlie thank you very, very muc little chicken.ches out. very charlie thank you very, very muc little chicken. little>ut. very charlie thank you very, very muc little chicken. little plug�*ery own little chicken. little plug for something that you've got coming i i hammer bit coming up i know i hammer bit when of steyn on when i come of mark steyn on this mark steyn himself is this show. mark steyn himself is passionate advocates of the kind of work that do. just talk of work that you do. just talk us through what gb news viewers, listeners can expect from you in the months. in my the coming months. well, in my role i've been role at gb news, i've been covering grooming gang covering the grooming gang scandal nationally. we have a film out january.

film coming out in january. i hope the second week of january will be broadcast live on gb news, some great success news, but some great success recently reporting recently we are reporting the labour for labour party candidate for rother stood after rother valley has stood after a gb vote when he got gb news vote when he got a scalp, one scalp to go but several to come. good stuff, charlie. thank you very much. as even charlie. thank you very much. as ever. page is our own. ever. charlie page is our own. very have him right very lucky to have him right now. is the a now. coming up, is the nhs a sacred institution or a crumbling is damaging crumbling one that is damaging us it's a break down is us here? it's a break it down is spectator columnist. some asked with how he's on pommel. patrick looms your looms large. send your views gives gb news dot uk that's gives our gb news dot uk that's all come just after this very all to come just after this very short .

break the great sacred cow of the united kingdom seems to be in a permanent state of crisis. headune permanent state of crisis. headline from the independent nhs won't cope . 40% of junior nhs won't cope. 40% of junior doctors plan to quit. survey reveals from november 2021

headune reveals from november 2021 headline from the guardian nhs in crisis mode at hospitals told to discharge where possible. another headline from the guardian december 20:20 pm. nhs hospitals running out of beds as covid cases continue surge from 2019. without the excuse of covid headline from the guardian again nhs winter crisis fears grow after thousands of eu staff seems to be a bit of a running theme age isn't a pandemic or no pandemic. the money guzzling base seems to be suffering one form of crisis another. many say that we should continue shovelling millions, if not billions onto it, as my next guest calls it. anyway the ever burning furnace of the nhs budget. but that furnace burned through . hundred an d £99 billion through. hundred and £99 billion in the year from 2021 to 2022, perhaps , just maybe, it's time perhaps, just maybe, it's time to admit that the sacred cow is

fact. a fatted calf in need of a gastric band . i'm joined now by gastric band. i'm joined now by spectator columnist ashworth hayes, who feels that he can save the nhs some , take it away save the nhs some, take it away . i mean , to that claim. i can. . i mean, to that claim. i can. i can certainly point to some suggestions for making it better. but i do think it might better. but i do think it might be beyond saving. but the core the real core of this, when you get down to it, is that when you look at what the nhs spent and then you look at what we get out of it, there's huge disconnect we spend i think the person a little less and the other little bit less and the other countries or get in terms of health outcomes is much less . so health outcomes is much less. so is there is a fundamental popovich of resource allocation which is doing things enormously inefficiently and the way that we fix it. well the government thinks you fix it is to just throw more money at it and, never try and address the underlying problems because as you it's a sacred call. the you say, it's a sacred call. the most. do we actually most. well, how do we actually that? because reducing the

budget unpalatable doesn't it to a lot of people this solution just needs to be more more money more pay rises rises pay more money pay rises rises pay rises. whereas far i can see rises. whereas as far i can see people who work in the people who actually work in the nhs just don't really want to be in nhs . they'd quite liked in the nhs. they'd quite liked to earn more to go abroad and earn more money. almost, almost money. it's almost, almost like their priority making their main priority is making money saving lives. money and not saving lives. i mean, i have absolutely no issue with people trying to get as paid for as much their skills as possible, related possible, certainly related through think through my job, but i think there you say, real there are, as you say, real efficiency problems vhs and a lot of this comes down the way it's organised. it's a bureaucracy effectively , these bureaucracy effectively, these targets of that and the budgets allocated and there's no real market pressure anywhere to the full well cost down to actually manage it an efficient way. and this to all the things we're deaung this to all the things we're dealing with and strange distortions. you know, we lag behind the rest of the world in health care . we look at things health care. we look at things like x—ray machines, but we don't just behind the developed world, we lag countries which are poorer than real. it's not

that we don't have the money. it's that we it because the treasury has this weird obsession with cutting capital budget consumption . budget to move the consumption. but that? why these but why is that? why these people's names never in the press . this is what i don't press. this is what i don't understand. we have whoever our health at given health secretary is at any given moment that the special moment that name, the special over press, the shot health over the press, the shot health minister. will all over minister. that will be all over the we've got nurses on the press. we've got nurses on picket lines, paramedics on picket lines, paramedics on picket they're always in picket lines. they're always in press. we ever find press. why don't we ever find out heck is out who the living heck is wasting our cash? so obviously, we get we get to hear about the head, the nhs, england. but as you say, it's we don't hear much about people are about the people who are actually doing and spending actually doing this and spending the so level and the money at so what level and of the problem is when you actually look at what can the government to address government do to address just how to do this so that how to get it to do this so that there's not actually that much in way of levers in the way of levers continuously half the half continuously poll half the half of what we basically have to do is find that distinction to make to turn to make change. it's the actual instruments it has actual policy instruments it has day to day limited and they really quite constrained by all these arcane pieces of paperwork

like the nhs constitution , many like the nhs constitution, many of which seem to be for the interests of the health service , self—preservation , rather than , self—preservation, rather than for the interests of the people that supposedly serving, which is you and me . well, mean, is you and me. well, i mean, i interviewed a chap earlier on today after the news broke that four in ten junior doctors are apparently wanting leave their starting salaries. call 29 starting salaries. a call 29 grant they can work their way up 58 so obviously to do 58 grand or so obviously to do private work on top of that to become a specialist then it does get higher they that's not get even higher they that's not enough rather this enough they'd rather train this country universities rack up country at universities rack up a student debt to the a load of student debt to the taxpayers then go taxpayers expense and then go and in australia here. and just work in australia here. really to be the jest really that seems to be the jest doesn't and i can't help but doesn't say and i can't help but wonder whether going to our nhs is being taken for a ride. dare i say some of the people who work for a bit. i mean. work in it for a bit. i mean. part of the problem here think part of the problem here i think is the is a miserable is that the nhs is a miserable experience to work within because doctors, say, because as doctors, as you say, could be earning more elsewhere, but also they're going to be doing a grunt work that they don't to do. so you go and

don't need to do. so you go and you talk to these doctors and say, well, you doing say, well, what are you doing with what have you with your days? what have you actually spend it? and they'll tell spend x amount of tell you, i spend x amount of hours wasting i spend hours wasting it, but i spend this time making phone this much time making phone calls other ward then calls up other ward and then walking phone system. walking down that phone system. but this much time and but i spend this much time and that's not the government's fault, that's fault fault, is it? that's the fault of. people the of. the people who the government run the government entrusts to run the nhs . why aren't these people you nhs. why aren't these people you know , being harangued by the know, being harangued by the staff work them? why it staff who work them? why is it steve barclay, bless him. well exactly. i mean, this is this is exactly. i mean, this is this is exactly what i'm saying there's no accountability within the nhs structure itself . so when it structure itself. so when it fails, all we think can with politicians actually don't politicians who actually don't have may leave us to have that may leave us to improve the efficiency within have that may leave us to impsystem. efficiency within have that may leave us to impsystem. and:iency within have that may leave us to impsystem. and thisy within have that may leave us to impsystem. and thisy \why�*| have that may leave us to impsystem. and thisy \why i've the system. and this is why i've written that speech basically setting point that because setting the point that because there market, because it's there is no market, because it's a government bureaucracy a sort of government bureaucracy with incentives that with all the incentives that these to resolve these bureaucracies to resolve themselves avoid ever themselves and to avoid ever being held to account . you've being held to account. you've ended up in a situation where money shovelled the money just shovelled onto the fire things don't improve fire and things don't improve very , very bad outcomes by

very, very bad outcomes by a number of standards, both with how much we're spending and at the same time , no one can really the same time, no one can really find way of getting from that find a way of getting from that because say , because the moment you say, well, at how they do well, let's look at how they do that, from that, that's the telegraph from switzerland. my private spending does get chunk of the does make me get chunk of the health care people turn around and come with these and come up with these ridiculous stories how you ridiculous stories about how you want america. something want to be america. something lik e £199 billion being pumped like £199 billion being pumped into nsa and then the end result of that money being spent is woeful. and any other line of work or any other. would you not launch money laundering investigation . i don't think investigation. i don't think that money laundering. i think that's just very bad that spending it because they are it's just run by these sort of slightly arcane bureaucracies which just no discipline to which just have no discipline to keep down. mean, you keep costs down. i mean, you what? i mean, i could take this figure for instance, the nhs is the largest in europe, but something like 2% of british population for it . population are working for it. so one in 50 people so it's one in every 50 people we who have a job somehow

we meet who have a job somehow tactically nhs it's mobilised huge resources they huge amounts of resources they spend but there's no pricing spend, but there's no pricing system saying this is what people value . there's no market people value. there's no market for capital paid government targets. and so just have this complete inefficiency where resources are diverted towards , resources are diverted towards, things which look good on the frontline like on nurses rather than spending on the stuff that so but it's a cold. it's a it's cold. right? it's a coat. okay because when you have an staff who were at ground level like junior doctor i spoke to earlier today or nurses or workers, and you ask them a pretty straightforward question, which is what amount of money are you on? and let's say they normally give me a response of between 25 and 35 grand. and i say them and 35 grand. and i say to them , right, if you work your , right, even if you work your way the pay scaling, you got way up the pay scaling, you got yourself to 50 grand. how do you feel the chap who is feel about the chap who is director experience? director of lived experience? he's his or her he's on £150,000. is his or her job worth three times more than yours? you're the one saving lives and they always the same

thing. well, i couldn't comment on everyone as a different of worth. that's code, isn't it? it's like they're being . they it's like they're being. they can't eat their own. yeah yeah, yeah. well, i mean, this, this is completely incorrect because the uk people say church of england is our national church isn't it's the nhs , the nhs. isn't it's the nhs, the nhs. it's the most sacred doctors in politics. you can't touch finger on that, you can't change it, you can't alter and the people within it that. and you get within it that. and so you get these bureaucracies as say which spends huge amounts wastefully. i'm at in many cases i'm looking at in many cases increasingly strange starts. we probably wouldn't exist . there probably wouldn't exist. there are more disoriented and you just you contact you say in your base because you come out and you say, well, this is probably not the best route. spending the money people around money and people sat around say, well, it's the well, it's all nhs, it's the world's health service. and world's best health service. and the it isn't. it's the fact is it isn't. it's actually pretty tough part. yeah, obviously some. thank you very facts he's very much not just facts he's a columnist ashworth he columnist sam ashworth as he feels well the nhs might feels well that the nhs might be a tricky save. so coming a bit tricky to save. so coming up on baby boom to blame or

up on baby boom is to blame or do elders deserve some respect i'm going to nail my colours to the mouth straight away. i think our elders deserve some respect but it's an interesting discussion because kennedy discussion because kara kennedy columnist is columnist for spectator world is here this apart with me here to pick this apart with me and almost to give me and almost time to give me a really good pummelling and you won't to that, will won't want to miss that, will you? see you after the .

break john humphrys the recent long time host radio four's today programme bemoaned the fact that young guns these days no longer respect their elders. in the telegraph over the weekend , telegraph over the weekend, anarchy may have a point. healthy societies tend to look to the oldies for some wisdom . to the oldies for some wisdom. but kara kennedy from the spectator world. and i suspect a lot of other millennials and zoomers are know what this means. by the way. people if that helps, have had a few

issues. what mr. humphrys had to say . what exactly did the old say. what exactly did the old have to teach the young about the world? after all, how much blame do they have for the fact that it blame do they have for the fact thatitis blame do they have for the fact that it is no longer possible to raise a family on wage, or raise a family on one wage, or that lack house prices rise that they lack house prices rise so much higher than wages that a whole generation priced whole generation is now priced out housing market that out of the housing market that they on triple locked they sit on triple locked pensions . while the tax burden pensions. while the tax burden on the working age is at an all time high. what exactly the long term consequences of shortsightedness for the country ? well, carol joins me now. thank you very much, kyra . can i thank you very much, kyra. can i just say somebody wrote that a little bit in the auto . all little bit in the auto. all right. i actually think that we should be loving our elders a lot more than we currently are. it's not their fault that everything is absolutely naff. you know what ? maybe we should you know what? maybe we should get off our backs of our age and put their shoulders to the wheel, a bit of graft, and wheel, do a bit of graft, and end their money yourselves. end up their money yourselves. go buy a house. hi, patrick. go and buy a house. hi, patrick. let's just start off by saying

that and of course, we want to have a baseline level of respect for everybody. wasn't my issue would be suppose we should respect our elders. what i am sick of is the narrative that my generation is spoilt entitled for having anything to say about . the fact that this country has nothing offer us anymore. i mean, it's become clear that anybody under the age of 40 is seen as totally disposable and unneeded.the seen as totally disposable and unneeded. the government has made that absolutely clear that they can get along without us. well i mean, good luck to them . well i mean, good luck to them. okay. do you want feel that this country is obviously absolutely nothing to offer anymore? i mean, you're on the telly now. no, no, i it's totally true. i mean, the age old saying, if you're not liberal when you're you're not a liberal when you're young have no cards, if young you have no cards, if you're not conservative when you're not a conservative when old, have no brain. the old, then you have no brain. the same thing isn't true anymore. conservatives consider the values a dead values in this country a dead like one wage is like you said, one wage is inherently conservative, so it's home ownership . sometimes family home ownership. sometimes family life . and the worst part is that life. and the worst part is that we don't have of this, but we're

being told was lucky and branded as for wanting more than what we have now . do you think there is have now. do you think there is any truth to fact that, you know, if i went outside of the studio right now. i'm probably within five feet of a roof top bar where. there'll be someone who is there eyeballs in student debt, drinking way in pornstar martinis , smearing avocado on martinis, smearing avocado on toast and is there any legitimacy to the idea that young people just aren't as thrifty as the older generation were ? i just don't think that's were? i just don't think that's indisputable. and it's because of the level of increase i make if we're talking a 10% rise in pnces if we're talking a 10% rise in prices since my parents a house, then yeah maybe it would be thrifty enough to. but it it's untenable the fact that anybody in a decent wage in this country i mean, can i just say it comes down to it. we get less. we pay more tax. we wait a longer portion of our life. that's if

we can ever retire and what? i mean, we'll never own a home. we'll never have a family because nobody wants to have a baby living in the house. wave criminal childcare costs. we presented as selfish hedonists that spend all their money on netflix and avocado on toast, but in when a chunk of holds of our government's own do it by lack of common reform. essentially, i don't people are asking for much. i mean i feel asking for much. i mean i feel as far as saying that housing should be a right. okay now that's interesting. but when it comes to housing in a lot of cultures they elderly they will move in with the younger generation. i'm not younger will look after the elderly in their old age both secure and good traditional family values and crucially, home ownership . but crucially, home ownership. but we don't really want to do that a lot of people in this country do. and i think maybe that's a bit wrong . well we're meant to bit wrong. well we're meant to do it. i mean, that you find me a house big enough to fit two generations that the persons house probably move affordable, move into the persons house,

wait for them to grow in the house, move in with them and then bingo, you've got a house and family. okay i think that's called baby take advantage . i called baby take advantage. i don't know, but no, no , you're don't know, but no, no, you're right. there is resentment growing between my generation and particularly boomers . but it and particularly boomers. but it all stems down to hands down. i mean, my people, my age of 60% or more of their wages every in one room, that is not something that can be they could be quite by being a bit more thrifty. yeah that's what it's worth . yeah that's what it's worth. there's not house, it's a room. yeah yeah. for what it's worth. i mean i'm being a little bit provocative here. i do agree with a lot of what you have to say, because i think the say, because i think one of the big concerns me, anyway, is big concerns for me, anyway, is that we've stopped dangling the carrot people. you've carrot for people. right. you've got them something. at got to give them something. at least that least show them something that they can aspire to they think they can aspire to and obtain. one am and then obtain. one day i am the minute for a lot of younger people they just think that so much is completely unobtainable and they get and therefore maybe they get incredibly resentful even incredibly resentful or. even worse, my worse, they stop. and that's my real concern there will be

real concern that there will be a of people coming a generation of people coming through don't to try to through who just don't to try to kick on in life . they think it's kick on in life. they think it's impossible and. the younger old people to acknowledge that is bad . no people to acknowledge that is bad. no you're people to acknowledge that is bad . no you're completely right. bad. no you're completely right. i mean, what's point if you're in this bleak , horrendous place in this bleak, horrendous place right now where you think, well, what's the point in anything? and you always hear the repetitive, oh, well, just move outside of london back to the north. better wales, north. it's better in wales, it's scotland. i'm it's better scotland. i'm currently in the soundcloud valleys from and. valleys where i'm from and. everybody i know is paid a fortune for everything and is advising . and i mean pay rises advising. and i mean pay rises are going as fast as inflation right now the pensions are and this is where the resentment stemming from. well, i think i think i'm i say i am a fan of the green belt in the sense of the green belt in the sense of the fact that i think like most people, they don't want to see some carbuncle bell on what was a beautiful picturesque landscape. however i a beautiful picturesque landscape. howeveri look a beautiful picturesque landscape. however i look at when farms now and i think well have to choose dead isn't it clearly that's alright. we can

sacrifice countryside for clearly that's alright. we can sac|sake countryside for clearly that's alright. we can sac|sake of countryside for clearly that's alright. we can sac|sake of a:ountryside for clearly that's alright. we can sac|sake of a bititryside for clearly that's alright. we can sac|sake of a bit of'side for clearly that's alright. we can sac|sake of a bit of wind,or clearly that's alright. we can sac|sake of a bit of wind, which the sake of a bit of wind, which they're giant the they're just giant bird at the end of day anyway aren't end of the day anyway aren't they. but anyway, i am getting increasingly annoyed nimbys increasingly annoyed by nimbys saying possibly build saying you can't possibly build the estate in my backyard . the estate in my backyard. actually i am sorry, but that is an area where you do need to compromise. yes, the architecture needs to be all. it shouldn't be a massive shouldn't just be a massive eyesore seriously, we have eyesore. but seriously, we have to start building houses either up or outside of london. i mean. no, i completely agree . and then no, i completely agree. and then this is another point. it resentment is nimbyism and it's because the boom in especially loads of houses all over the country . and then as soon as country. and then as soon as these it's not an application for a block and flats they say oh well i actually quite like my view of waitrose over there. so i'm glad i objected to it. then they complain about the fact that at they might not be making money from pensions and stuff that and it's because none of us can afford a house. just quickly

just very just very quickly , do just very just very quickly, do the people who survived the war not deserve a little bit of leeway ? of course they do. leeway? of course they do. i don't think that's the point i think the point is the fact we shouldn't be down on our knees begging for giving props to everybody when we're in a crappy situation ourselves . fair situation ourselves. fair enough. all right, kyra, thank you very much. as i have a great to actually meet you and indeed have you on the show as i cover for mark steyn, who is on mend, kyra, that a spectator . kyra, that from a spectator. well, right. it's a bit like something this time. but alas, i'm stein. am patrick. i'm not stein. i am patrick. yeah, and me both. and i'm yeah, you and me both. and i'm going let you pummel me. what going to let you pummel me. what have me today, have you got for me today, people? some want to . give people? some. some want to. give me pummelling. why is it me a pummelling. why is it always can't we always the man? why can't we have referendum on the bbc? have a referendum on the bbc? licence fee says yes, i agree. we should a referendum . the we should have a referendum. the bbc fee. to be fair, bbc licence fee. to be fair, i actually pay mine. i paid it actually to pay mine. i paid it now uno. all right, fine. i was threatened with court action all sorts yeah. amazingly, sorts of stuff. yeah. amazingly, criminals were allowed to wander around the terrace says. how around the bbc terrace says. how

many inject actions? have many covid inject actions? have you had any regrets ? i will you had any regrets? i will answer this. i mind answering it. i've had to and i do regret them. i felt very, very very forced into it. i'm not telling anybody else not to get them. i've got no problem with anyone doing it. so i felt incredibly pressured into getting it. and actually now well look back on it. i i hadn't. why not? it. i wish i hadn't. why not? because of injection itself because of the injection itself , feel i didn't do , but because i feel i didn't do it the reasons i did it. it for the reasons i did it. because caved into pressure. because i caved into pressure. and that doesn't make me feel nice about myself. there you go. ask question i will it. ask a question i will answer it. ask a question i will answer it. a that would have a lot of people that would have said your business, said none of your business, not me fox me right me anyway, fox joins me right now for demos. and neil wants now in for demos. and neil wants to crack. hey, patrick very nice to crack. hey, patrick very nice to be you're after to be on. you're looking after dan. of course we'll have to dan. so of course we'll have to get to important issues like get to the important issues like who greatest britain and who is this greatest britain and who's we'll who's this union jackass. we'll be that course. we'll be be doing that course. we'll be talking vinyl sales. we'll be talking vinyl sales. we'll be talking about what's going to be on the news agenda next, next year kelvin . i think it's year with kelvin. i think it's going be busy. one, got to be going to be busy. one, got to be honest. oh going to be absolutely fantastic . are

absolutely fantastic. are wonderful. fox and for dan wonderful. neil fox and for dan watson i'll be patrick christys mark steyn will be back soon. very hopefully he is on the mend. you everyone. peace out. stay stay free. hello stay safe. stay free. hello there. i'm cleansing with your weather update. it's a living into thursday morning rain showers some clearer skies, strong winds and, also some hill snow. now all courtesy of an hour of low pressure to. the south of that, that's where we've seen the coastal gales overnight as. we've seen the coastal gales overnight as . that weather front overnight as. that weather front stores across the far north of scotland and rain will return to the northwest . so overnight, a the northwest. so overnight, a lot of weather around. lot of wet weather around. a batch of showers will to form a longer spell of wet weather across northern england. wales west country pushing over eastwards as . west country pushing over eastwards as. rain west country pushing over eastwards as . rain returns eastwards as. more rain returns to belt. western of to the central belt. western of scotland northern ireland scotland and northern ireland through early of the through the early hours of the morning. cold start in the morning. a cold start in the north relatively , mild further north relatively, mild further south, showers never too far south, but showers never too far away. however, through the there will be some sunshine around central eastern areas of central and eastern areas of england further showers will clear northern england and this

mass showery rain will move mass of showery rain will move from northern ireland, scotland to the east. now, of to towards the east. now, of course, england as well, most frequent bursts be down frequent bursts will be down towards southwest where towards the southwest where we'll the heavier one, but we'll see the heavier one, but the winds be as as the winds won't be as as wednesday . even so, these wednesday. even so, these showers could be some sunshine in between . temperatures not as in between. temperatures not as high either . in between. temperatures not as high either. now through thursday evening , we'll see a thursday evening, we'll see a lot of the showers ease . i could lot of the showers ease. i could even see the risk of some ice across the far north—east of scotland as rain returns to northern ireland . this rain is northern ireland. this rain is heavy. the met office heavy. in fact, the met office has a warning for heavy has issued a warning for heavy rain and southern rain across central and southern parts into friday. parts of scotland into friday. again, risk of some snow again, the risk of some snow over higher ground is over the higher ground is thickening cloud on friday bnngs thickening cloud on friday brings further spells of wet weather wales , the west weather towards wales, the west country as the winds up country as the winds pick up some strength. so let's have a look at that rain. it tracks across england and wales more rain scotland and rain across scotland and northern clearing northern ireland clearing northern ireland clearing northern on the northern ireland later on in the day, cold wind day, putting cold in that wind under cloud. and here's under all that cloud. and here's your . the year your outlook. the new year weekend , we lose the strength of weekend, we lose the strength of the wind we gain some dry skies,

but always the chance some but always the chance of some rain south—east on .

sunday and good evening and to your wednesday evening. i'm neil fox and i will be looking after dan wootton show for the next couple nights and i can guarantee you a couple of hours of excellent entertainment tonight with a panel helping helping tackle some of the big stories are around this week, including whether we should enjoy staycations instead of jetting abroad , how animal shelters are abroad, how animal shelters are bursting at the seams, how vinyl records sales are in the news again with another record year pardon the and we have some superb guests including kelvin mackenzie and broadcast legend mike reid . plus in my