channel good evening and welcome to mark dolan tonight with andrew doyle. we've got stellar show lined up for you this evening filled with big stories and big opinions. we'll be debating whether 2023 will be the year of veganism after a rise in plant based . after a rise in plant based. we'll discuss why comedians to fight back next year to fight our freedom of speech. there has been so terribly muted recently , and my superstar panel and i will be dissecting some of the biggest stories of the day in the news agenda. you won't want to before all that, to miss it, but before all that, here's the news with tatiana sanchez sanchez . andrew, thank sanchez sanchez. andrew, thank you. this is the latest from the

gb newsroom the government has confirmed travelling directly china to the uk from the 5th of january must show a negative test before departure . health test before departure. health secretary steve barclay described the temporary measures as a balanced and precautionary approach. it comes amid concern about surging case numbers . about surging case numbers. china following an easing restrictions there. countries including france, the us india have also implemented similar rules . police have named a man rules. police have named a man that urgently trying trace following a serious sexual on an elderly woman in london notting hill gate. the victim aged in her seventies was attacked on the evening of the 23rd of december. the met say they're trying to trace 35 year old james beggs of no fixed address. the urging members of the public not to approach him if it but to call 999 immediately. not to approach him if it but to call 999 immediately . west call 999 immediately. west midlands police have been given

more time to question men arrested on suspicion of the murder of a 23 year old man on boxing day . cody fisher died boxing day. cody fisher died following a knife attack at the crown in birmingham. the has since had its licence , with since had its licence, with police saying that been serious management failings. another suspect remains in custody . the suspect remains in custody. the family of elle edwards, who was killed in merseyside, have paid to their most beautiful bright star. the 26 year old was shot at the lighthouse on christmas eve while celebrating with family and friends. police are urging anyone with any information to come forward. a 30 year old man from tranmere arrested on suspicion of the murder has been recalled to prison . i9 murder has been recalled to prison . 19 year old woman from prison. 19 year old woman from rock ferry has been bailed and a 31 year old man remains in custody at and remaining prosecutors have agreed to extend the arrest online influencer andrew tate 30 days.

he's been detained on suspicion of human trafficking and rape. the former reality star who was detained alongside brother tristan had his raided in the caphal tristan had his raided in the capital, bucharest . the tate capital, bucharest. the tate brothers have been under criminal investigation since april . they've declined to april. they've declined to comment . tv april. they've declined to comment. tv online and dab radio. this is gb news. now it's over to mark dolan tonight with andrew doyle . andrew doyle. it's friday, the 30th of december. i'm andrew doyle in for mark dolan. coming up on show tonight after a rise in plant based products, offerings by big brands and an increase in popularity among younger britons. well 2023 be the year of veganism or is the entire trend overrated .7 i'll have a trend overrated? i'll have a representative from peta and the save british farming here to

duke it out at 920. and in my opinion, i lay out my case for those us who are feeling politically homeless , as i argue politically homeless, as i argue that both the tories and labour need to get their act together. if we have any hope of fixing britain, that's. and at ten, at 20, i'll be joined by showbiz journalist stephanie techy who'll be rounding up some of the biggest showbiz moments of 2022 and the news agenda at ten. my 2022 and the news agenda at ten. my panel and i will debate . my panel and i will debate. landlords actually the landlords are actually the solution to britain's housing crisis rather than the problem. and joining me throughout the show tonight, we gb news presenter and conservative, the reverend calvin robinson , social reverend calvin robinson, social and political commentator lizzie zita and political commentator ali meraj . and they'll also help ali meraj. and they'll also help me unpack the front pages as we get them hot off the presses. and as usual, we'd like to hear your thoughts at gb news. so please do email us at two gb views at gbnews.uk. i'm andrew doyle in for mark dolan . let's doyle in for mark dolan. let's go . i be the only one who feels

go. i be the only one who feels politically homeless at the moment. but maybe that's not such a bad thing. politics is at its worst when it tends towards tribalism. the them and us . the tribalism. the them and us. the nofion tribalism. the them and us. the notion that your side can do no wrong and the other side must be condemned irrespective of the. really, there should be no such thing as a tory voter , a labour thing as a tory voter, a labour voter. they should just be voters open minded and, willing to be persuaded by whichever candidate presents the strongest argument . at the present time, argument. at the present time, however , the electorate appears however, the electorate appears to be faced with no choice at all. part of the problem is that no one seems to know what any of these parties really stand for. least the parties least of all the parties themselves. is meant to themselves. labour is meant to be of working people, be the party of working people, but seem predominantly but they seem predominantly obsessed middle class obsessed with middle class identitarian nonsense and the most staunch conservative supporters are now doubting whether the party is conservative in any meaningful sense at all. so is this the end of the tory party in its current form? polls make for a very bleak reading for the much

beleaguered rishi. a people's poll by gb news has that only 6% of the adult population expect their conditions to improve. 70% of british adults are not at all that the government can reduce living costs and that a majority of who voted for the conservatives in the last election. so cenac left in the highly unusual position of having to convince his own support to vote for him, never mind the armies of the undecided .sunak mind the armies of the undecided . sunak is, of course, aware that it's an uphill struggle . that it's an uphill struggle. here are the latest figures on westminster voting intentions. labour are polling at 45% and the tories at 19. sunak hasn't hope, but i think all of suggests that we need an overhaul of system. many people included felt that the party missed a trick by not taking a chance kemi badenoch for leader . too often politicians fail to understand that the culture war is a crucial matter when it comes to the electorate and badenoch understands this . yes,

badenoch understands this. yes, the economy has to be a priority , but the party of government neglects these cultural issues at its peril. in fact, it's not so that the tory government has failed tackle the worst excesses of the culture warriors. the tories have presided over them. statues been torn down. curricula declined . stonewall's curricula declined. stonewall's regressive policies have been implemented throughout the sector and the civil service and all of this has happened . the all of this has happened. the tories watch. they they've been fighting a war on woke. it's a funny sort of war when you keep nourishing your opponent. and all of this is going to get lot worse under keir starmer. the labour party is overwhelmingly by the new ideology of critical social justice. what has become known as the woke movement , known as the woke movement, which is why a labour government will be happy to tell us all that the uk is irredeemably racist, even though poll after poll reveals that the country is one of the most non—racist on the planet and will insist the planet and they will insist that biological sex doesn't matter it comes to matter even when it comes to sports, and domestic sports, prisons and domestic refuge centres . keir starmer has

refuge centres. keir starmer has already pledged to push , through already pledged to push, through gender self—identification laws , following in the lumbering footsteps of the snp. it won't popular. only 20% of scottish adults support the snp's new. but starmer will do it anyway because the ideology more than popularity . can you imagine this popularity. can you imagine this country run by a man who apparently doesn't know what a woman is? it doesn't bode well which . takes me back to my which. takes me back to my original point. i think of us are going to stay politically homeless for quite some time . homeless for quite some time. the only way out is for one of the parties to take a new approach to offer the electorate something voting for. the current system simply isn't working . we don't have working. we don't have proportional represents in parliament as much as we need . parliament as much as we need. and so something radical has to break the deadlock . and it's break the deadlock. and it's probably going to have to come from within the conservative party itself . i don't know what party itself. i don't know what lies for the tories, but whether you're on the right or the left of somewhere between. for all our sakes, something has. to

reacting . my big opinion tonight reacting. my big opinion tonight on my brilliant panel gb news presenter and conservative commentator the reverend calvin robinson . social and political robinson. social and political lizzie zita and political commentator ali maraj. i'm going to come to you . ali, any to come to you. ali, any particular thoughts? is the conservative dead? in its current form , it doesn't seem to current form, it doesn't seem to be very popular. you're certainly right. it's not popular , andrew, but it's not popular, andrew, but it's not dead. heard a i've heard dead. i've heard a i've heard many stories about the of the conservative party in the last 20 years. it always manages to be great survivor. it always be the great survivor. it always rekindles remodels rekindles itself. remodels itself in a new image. but let's be let's be honest about where we are since that 80 seat majority in 2019 on the back of parliament trying to frustrate brexit for three years. boris johnson a huge mandate absolutely stunk in mandate and he threw it away. why he throw it away? because of the three ps patterson parties and pincher

none of these things were actually issues of policy. they were all issues of personality. that's why he then the tory party had its love affair with liz truss over the summer disaster completely the pale. i mean, you can what you want in terms of cutting taxes in the middle of a 400 billion of borrowing on the back of covid as long as you don't borrow any money from the markets if you do borrow money from the markets, then you need to be mindful about how your message is going to across. have do to go across. starmer have to do much. is gaping, wide much. the net is gaping, wide for him to put the ball in the back of. rishi sunak incredible hard working, guy. not hard working, sensible guy. not a worker trying bring a miracle worker trying to bring the port it the shipping to port before it sinks. you know . it's clear sinks. you know. it's clear that sunak's difficult position. sunak's in a difficult position. this you know, there this is you know, there are global issues the cost global issues terms of the cost of living crisis he's come at worst possible time he's inherited a poisoned chalice, if you do you talk about you like. you do you talk about earlier of the earlier about the idea of the tory being prepared tory party being prepared to reinvent and to reinvent every now and then to win people again. but is it really i mean, know even the opfion really i mean, know even the option of rishi sunak feels like

the old same old, you know . the old same old, you know. well, look, i think rishi sunak everything rishi came everything the rishi sunak came said the summer came to pass. i mean, he was warning ridiculous tax totally unfunded would tax cuts totally unfunded would be a complete and utter disaster and were the markets gave and they were the markets gave their verdict in the very same markets by the that the right of the tory party they completely said beyond the said that this was beyond the pale. look the reality there pale. look the reality is there are three big shocks that we're deaung are three big shocks that we're dealing as a country. one dealing with as a country. one is post—brexit and is the post—brexit shock. and i believe that we need to implement brexit properly. i didn't for but didn't vote for it, but i accepted it. i wasn't one of these people who were trying to frustrate you three years, frustrate you for three years, which completely ridiculous which was completely ridiculous the public voted implement what they secondly, they voted for. secondly, we've had completely of the had covid completely out of the blue unforeseen , and then blue unforeseen, and then we were the of a war were in the middle of a war which is fuelling inflation. galactic form of rising galactic in the form of rising energy prices. so you've got three shocks to the three massive shocks to the country's working . just take country's working. and just take one andrew , before one example, andrew, before people talk the nhs . people talk about the nhs. before the pandemic there were 1300 waiting more than 12 1300 people waiting more than 12 months nhs list for an months on the nhs list for an operation. it's 400,000, of

operation. now it's 400,000, of course , going to unrest. it's course, going to be unrest. it's social unrest , political unrest, social unrest, political unrest, of the that literally of course, the that literally see and hear because i mean, makes a very good case that there are all sorts circumstances rishi circumstances beyond rishi sunak's is not sunak's control and this is not necessarily his fault, but necessarily all his fault, but really, , those polls, really, i mean, those polls, i mean, they couldn't be much, could they? well, it's hardly surprising turmoil that surprising the turmoil that we've seen so we've had. we've seen so many it's door of it's like a revolving door of prime ministers. so there's that it's not going to it's not it's not going to instil all confidence. and also both both political parties seem to be so swayed by the wind on all this wokeist and all this popular ism . and i just think popular ism. and i just think that, you know , they need to that, you know, they need to wokeism like the new fascism you have agree. otherwise you get blown out. and i think it kills us any kind of creativity it kills any kind of you know new system or new of looking at things people are terrified to speak out otherwise you know for the amount of criticism they get etc. etc. a lot of people as it was, say that the culture wars stuff is a distraction from the

actual issues, things to do with poverty to do with cost of living crisis. do you think that they've got a point there. no, unfortunately, think unfortunately, i don't. i think the cultural are what the cultural issues are what mattered the country right mattered to the country right now, is fighting now, because it is fighting for the country. it's the spirit of the country. it's we as a nation what we we are as a nation what we believe in where we want to believe in and where we want to go. if the tory can't answer that question, at least they manage finances, then manage the finances, but then they're economically they're not even economically responsible the responsible anymore. so if the conservatives aren't culture conservative and economically conservative, we know they turn down quite recently. down trust mix quite recently. then are they don't an then what are they don't have an ideology, why are they ideology, so why are they conservative then ? why conservative anymore then? why did turn their back on? liz did they turn their back on? liz truss it was very weird to hear a conservative pm saying things. yeah, they turned their back a conservative pm saying things. yeiher they turned their back a conservative pm saying things. yeiher is they turned their back a conservative pm saying things. yeiher is because ned their back a conservative pm saying things. yeiher is because ned tdidn'tack on her is because they didn't want in first place. they want her in first place. they wanted the globalists in power. and in that and you're right in that politics it's not politics is tribal, but it's not about votes. it's not about swing votes. it's not about swing votes. it's not about people to vote about convincing people to vote for it's about for your party. it's about getting . so there for your party. it's about get'tribes . so there for your party. it's about get'tribes of . so there for your party. it's about get'tribes of conservative 1ere are tribes of conservative voters, tribes of labour voters, and one is an election. we go and one is an election. we go and one is an election. we go and on doors and say, come and knock on doors and say, come and knock on doors and say, come and your party, but and vote for your party, but they this time

they won't do that this time because don't have an because they don't have an ideology. but we have seen people float one to the people float from one to the other. mean, the very other. i mean, the very fact that broke down, that red wall broke down, i mean, that's incredible. listen, that red wall broke down, i nmean,�*|at's incredible. listen, that red wall broke down, i nmean, those 1credible. listen, that red wall broke down, i nmean, those people e. listen, that red wall broke down, i nmean, those people woulden, that red wall broke down, i nmean, those people would never i mean, those people would never vote to in their life. and all of a sudden they do and that was swinging the other way. it swinging back the other way. it does there is room does feel like there is room here of parties took here if one of the parties took a step to of reinvent a major step to of reinvent themselves, could break themselves, they could break that deadlock. well let's hope because want to have those because we do want to have those back again. but back into the fold again. but it's deeply worrying that it's just deeply worrying that both don't seem have both sides don't seem to have very clear, direct means neither the quite keir the labour i quite like keir starmer little bit starmer but he's a little bit wishy washy. he goes with the crowd. always seems as crowd. he is. he always seems as if he's on back foot instead if he's on the back foot instead leading charge. if you leading the charge. well if you get starmer is an get the starmer issue is an interesting isn't it, interesting one, isn't it, because looks much like because it looks very much like he's the next prime he's going to be the next prime minister. yes, but surely all of the stuff we describe in the column mentioned culture column mentioned the culture war issues you've been issues and al, you've been talking about economy, but talking about the economy, but starmer generally, starmer and labour generally, they're going any they're not going to do any better, are mean, you better, are they? i mean, you know, doesn't have know, labour doesn't have the best when comes to best record when it comes to rejuvenating the economy think rejuvenating the economy i think

what lot what happens with a lot of labour voters is when comes labour voters is that when comes to general election, they to the general election, they pull back because i think they think, oh god, the conservatives pair hands. but don't know pair of hands. but i don't know that's anymore. all they as that's true anymore. all they as everything were. look in 92, right after 92 of the major one, that unexpected victory you had then had wednesday, the tory party never recovered its reputation for economic competence after that, in 97 the economy doing reasonably economy was doing reasonably well, got absolutely well, but they got absolutely hammered. know an absolute hammered. you know an absolute landslide victory thing landslide victory and the thing is, saying we're heading is, i'm not saying we're heading to landslide , you know, to a landslide, you know, right now. don't think now. i mean, i don't think a landslide would good the landslide would be good for the country. but the moment. it's country. but at the moment. it's difficult conceive of a set difficult to conceive of a set of circumstances where the conservatives actually going conservatives are actually going to mean, can to win this. i mean, yeah, i can i mean, electorally, it'll looks very labour, the very hard for labour, but the reality tory party reality is that the tory party is damaged now on the back of is so damaged now on the back of the boris fiasco, the trust again and kelvin says tory again and kelvin says the tory party turfed out trust because they hen party turfed out trust because they her. well mpc they didn't want her. well mpc didn't that's true. didn't want her. that's true. the party the mpc in the mpc in the party are often in different places . but let's forget

places. but let's not forget that the party voted for ian duncan—smith. they didn't exactly too well, exactly work out too well, right. yeah the party can make egregious errors of judgement until comes to its senses. right. and this was case where until comes to its senses. ri basicallythis was case where until comes to its senses. ri basically was was case where until comes to its senses. ri basically was the case where until comes to its senses. ri basically was the wrong/here it basically was the wrong place. just it was a disaster. just quickly before we move, i just want to ask you, calvin, because, you know, we talk about keir and likelihood keir starmer and the likelihood that be the next that he's going to be the next prime and this distance prime minister and this distance in the tories in the polls between the tories and labour at the moment, it and labour at the moment, is it just people haven't really just that people haven't really thought, you know, we've got the tories moment and things tories at the moment and things are they have perhaps are bad but they have perhaps haven't to see haven't got the foresight to see that could be a whole lot that they could be a whole lot worse. i think people worse. right. i think people have realised that it doesn't really in power. really matter who's in power. it'll same old it'll be the same old, same old rubbish. we need the parties to stand out, we're different. stand out, say we're different. this we'll offer this is what we'll offer you. neither of the two are going to do right now. so then you do that right now. so then you know what would a labour government look like to you? potatoes. the same as what we've a longer lockdowns. all the a lot longer lockdowns. all the lockdowns, you know there's that possibility lockdowns, you know there's that possilthel were locking when the tories were locking down calling for down labour were calling for more. more woke

more. well yeah. more woke issues issues issues you trans trans issues all centre relabelling all left and centre relabelling as women when that man on the back of self all of that back of self i.d. all of that stuff come to forefront stuff will come to the forefront under labour. it won't be under labour. but it won't be much a bit much worse. it will be a bit worse. okay, let's do i do think, though, that what you said true. i do said is absolutely true. i do feel there isn't feel that there isn't a political for me, which is the reason why i would vote green. i do feel that you know form reclaim ukip these parties without they really representation they can't really but everyone said going representation they can't really buvote veryone said going representation they can't really buvote aeryone said going representation they can't really buvote a claim said going representation they can't really buvote a claim tomorrowioing representation they can't really buvote a claim tomorrow ifng to vote a claim tomorrow if everyone country are everyone in the country are going vote for claims they going to vote for claims they would get into power. if everyone keeps that you everyone keeps saying that you small, vote for small, i'm going to vote for them, well, we them, they would say, well, we have end that section now. have to end that section now. but coming the break but coming up after the break with veganuary right around the corner and an increase in offerings of plant based products, the year products, will 2023 be the year of or is that movement of vegan ism or is that movement just overrated? the just entirely overrated? the chair save farming, liz chair of save farming, liz webster and director of corporate projects peta, yvonne taylor , will be duking it out taylor, will be duking it out after the .

break welcome back to mark dolan tonight me andrew doyle. it's time now for . so it's time for time now for. so it's time for the big question in which we tackle a major news story of the day. next week marks the start of meat lover's nightmare veganuary . from people wanting veganuary. from people wanting to lose weight, veganuary. from people wanting to lose weight , others wanting to lose weight, others wanting to lose weight, others wanting to reduce their impact on the environment. veganuary has developed into a new year's resolution trend that seems to be gaining more by the year 2023 is already looking promising . is already looking promising. anyone. swapping steak for cauliflower . fast food giant cauliflower. fast food giant mcdonald's has announced their new double beyond meat burger. just in time for veganuary . just in time for veganuary. after the wildly successful singular mcplant burger in 2021 and condiment king have unveiled their own vegan offerings for 2023, with vegan versions of its classic cream of tomato soup and

baked beans with , sausages of baked beans with, sausages of their apparently fake sausages. so with more brands beginning to jump so with more brands beginning to jump on the vegan trend and ipsos research finding 46% of brits aged between 16 and 75 are considering reducing their intake of animal products in the future . will 2023 be the year of future. will 2023 be the year of the vegan , or is there movement the vegan, or is there movement overall at it? so to debate that now, i'm joined by chair of save british farming , liz webster and british farming, liz webster and director of corporate projects at peta . yvonne taylor, thank at peta. yvonne taylor, thank you both so much for me. i want you both so much for me. i want you to start with you, liz. is it the case that veganism is just a fad, a trend? it seems very, very fashionable . and lots very, very fashionable. and lots of companies are getting on board. is that all it is ? well board. is that all it is? well it's obviously not a fad and it a trend. it's something that people feel good about doing. and it's a personal choice. but i think often they don't have enough evidence and enough knowledge to understand why they feel good about it. because actually i feel good about

eating meat and specifically british meat, which is sustainably reared because i understand food chain and the food system and how it works and how it benefit us all together with that , it's really good for with that, it's really good for you . it's really healthy . and you. it's really healthy. and you. it's really healthy. and you know, a lot of this vegan food is heavily processed and imported using different plants from all the world, added to which know food is kill free. you know that if you grow crops you've got to keep pests off those crops. and also a lot of fertilisers, especially now chemical fertilisers becoming more scarce. we need natural fertiliser uses which come from livestock to fertilisers. so to grow these crops. so it's not as straight forward as days i think is a feel good factor for some of the oh i feel good things i'm not killing cute animals and but it's as straightforward as that . okay. so we all say as farmers if we thought if we formed polar

bears , they wouldn't be extinct. bears, they wouldn't be extinct. it's that. okay, well, i want bnngin it's that. okay, well, i want bring in now yvonne taylor . bring in now yvonne taylor. yvonne. so you've just heard from liz the argument for why eating meat is actually good for all of us. what's the counterargument to that ? where counterargument to that? where to start with all of that? i mean vegans support farmers. we support farmers who grow crops . support farmers who grow crops. this idea that you have to farm animals to be a farmer is just ridiculous . animals to be a farmer is just ridiculous. in this day and age, going is the best way to combat change. improve your health, help animals all at the same . help animals all at the same. each person who vegan saves more than 100 animals a year for probably use. this includes chickens who are crammed a filthy windowless . the stench of filthy windowless. the stench of ammonia has so strong that burns their lungs . cows who are bred their lungs. cows who are bred to produce unnaturally high volumes of milk and have their calves taken away from them within 3 to 6 hours of birth. and if you just need to go to the peta uk website and you will

see examples of these british farmers and the kind of standards animals are kept, and there's the horrific cruelty that peta exposed. so, you know , when people go to the meat counter , you'll see increasingly counter, you'll see increasingly they're being bombarded with messages about high welfare, free range organic meat. but what these labels actually do is they're there to and entice consumers to keep supporting this incredibly cruel and damaging industry. this incredibly cruel and damaging industry . they're not damaging industry. they're not actually protecting the animals . so, you know, the best things that people can do for the new year because , so many people now year because, so many people now are looking for new year's resolutions and how to make a change. that's a positive change for the world. and the number one thing on many people's lists is going vegan. liz webster, do you think that the bit kind abuses that yvonne is outlining that this is something that is just endemic in the meat meat industry , that actually there is industry, that actually there is an ethical . it's nonsense every an ethical. it's nonsense every farm that every farm that particularly british farmers

love , their animals. and we have love, their animals. and we have incredibly high standards here incredibly high standards here in britain. the highest in the world. and i see it very proud of the way we look after animals and this scaremongering that that some certain people get up to try and guilt people into eating vegan which is largely highly processed from big corporations and a really bad for the environment and actually not particularly good for your health because they're full of sugar and salt amanda chips. so it's just you know, eat food which is local sustainably reared and you know is actually healthy and good for you know the grass in britain and a lot of red and we all we've always eaten a lot of livestock in britain because of our climate. we're not in asia where they have sun and rain and heat. we don't that meat is the only that we can ensure our security and it is the best thing for us to eat. obviously within seas and vegetables and yes, standards. we use salads, mountain winds .

we use salads, mountain winds. we use salads, mountain winds. we never use stone. but there is that there is an environmental damage to that because they're grown in green . is it just grown in green. is it just a question of plurality, though? you know , i'll bring you in you know, i'll bring you in here, yvonne, you know, isn't the case that why don't we just live and let live some people will want to be vegan. some people will want to eat meat. and what's wrong that? and what's wrong with that? well, that we're well, the reality is that we're trying show people what trying to show people what actually on these farms. actually happens on these farms. you when you're told you when you're being told a british farmers all love their animals look at the animals like say go look at the peta website and see the peta uk website and see the reality. issue, we reality. as for health issue, we know that beings thrive a know that beings thrive on a healthy diet. authorities like the british association confirm that those who don't consume meat, dairy eggs are less likely to suffer from heart disease. high blood pressure or diabetes . in terms of the environment we're facing a climate emergency . we've all seen the historic droughts floods, wildfires , droughts floods, wildfires, agriculture is responsible . agriculture is responsible. nearly one fifth of human induced greenhouse gas

emissions. the university oxford finds that a vegan diet is the single way to reduce your impact the planet and ask for , you the planet and ask for, you know, having to import or processed foods you don't need to do that . everybody knows that to do that. everybody knows that you can. there's wonderful you know natural vegan foods that you can make here that are produced by british farmers and website can ask you the same question can't. we just live in a world where people make their own choices about what they eat and not be bullied. i absolutely agree. you know, i'm saying to people guilty about eating people feel guilty about eating a balanced diet . but a good a good balanced diet. but i think if you're feeling forced into thinking, i've got to do this because , farmers are cool this because, farmers are cool to animals, particularly that is that's information is that's false information is absolutely false. it's not true in this country. we farm as we have done for thousands years. we have fairly low numbers for cattle, unlike countries like and australia, if we give up our farming here, it'll that more meat comes in from those countries. so it's important you

support british farming, british food locally, reared locally , food locally, reared locally, sourced in season that's the most important thing you can do for your health and also for our food system and food security, which right now , as we're facing which right now, as we're facing an emergence with ukraine and the energy crisis is so foreign to menzel. so, you know , that's to menzel. so, you know, that's the most important thing. if someone wants to be vegan, fine. that's their choice . but they that's their choice. but they shouldn't try to force other people into doing that, especially with false information. i it because it's absolutely clear that the pair of you are not going to agree about the within british about this. the within british farming that aside farming but leaving that aside just liz makes just for a moment liz makes a very good point, doesn't she, about the need about the economy and the need to a thriving industry. and to have a thriving industry. and that does depend, does it not, on the cultivation of animal products? absolutely . what products? no, absolutely. what you're seeing as result of the number of people turning plant based diets is that you are springing up everywhere . i mean, springing up everywhere. i mean, if you're talking about food , we if you're talking about food, we know that with with things like bird flu and other animal borne

diseases, they're impacting humans. you know, they all start us disrespecting animals in the first place. the best thing that people can do, the way we can move forward towards a safer future is by eating only healthy , nutritious, plant based foods . well, that's all we've got time for, i'm afraid. thank you both for joining time for, i'm afraid. thank you both forjoining me time for, i'm afraid. thank you both for joining me tonight. time for, i'm afraid. thank you both forjoining me tonight. i'm both for joining me tonight. i'm sorry we have run out of time, but thanks much for joining but thanks very much for joining me. was the chair say me. that was the chair say british farming, at least webster, the director of corporate peter corporate projects at peter yvonne coming up yvonne taylor. so coming up in just a few as the world just a few minutes, as the world of announces plans to of boxing announces plans to create trans only, that the create a trans only, is that the best sports can protect women or is separating trans athletes only doing more harm? olympic marathon runner and writer murray yamaguchi be here to give her take very shortly shortly .

welcome back to mark dolan

tonight me andrew doyle the president of world boxing council has revealed that boxing will put out a call for transgender athletes to come forward in 2023, with the aim of introducing a new category solely for trans fighters. in an exclusive with the telegraph, wbc president mauricio sooliman said he believes the sport needs to look at the issue for and inclusion reasons to ensure they never have a situation where a man is allowed to fight a woman. now this announcement will come as welcome to activists who have been calling for the protection of women's sports after a series controversies over trans athletes. sparks, course, by athletes. sparks, of course, by the leah thomas in the likes of leah thomas in swimming new zealand. swimming and new zealand. weightlifter hubbard competing swimming and new zealand. wethetlifter hubbard competing swimming and new zealand. wethe tokyohubbard competing swimming and new zealand. wethe tokyo .ubbard competing swimming and new zealand. wethe tokyo . butard competing swimming and new zealand. wethe tokyo . but whilenpeting swimming and new zealand. wethe tokyo . but while it'sting at the tokyo. but while it's commendable , the world boxing commendable, the world boxing council is taking a proactive approach. the decision approach. is the decision separate trans athletes a fair one? well, to discuss this now and give her take, joined by former olympic marathon runner and writer mari yamaguchi . good and writer mari yamaguchi. good evening, thanks for evening, mara. thanks for joining . can i ask you,

joining me today. can i ask you, mara, we are going to start with this issue of trans individuals in sport. this has something that's been ongoing for a long, long time now. is this third category idea the best solution and should it be rolled out across the board ? it's one across the board? it's one option. which federations can adopt. and i think the announcement the world boxing council is very good . they've council is very good. they've they've made absolutely clear that sex birth must be what used in categories in boxing . and in categories in boxing. and they've said that a man cannot be allowed to fight a woman regardless of gender change. but they've also made a positive and proactive step to be welcoming and inclusive to transgender people who want participate in boxing by saying they will set up this new category. the other option, which is essentially what fina the swimming federation have kind of done is to have male and a female and, an open category . so different

an open category. so different sports have to decide what is best for them female and open. i think is a very good option, but think is a very good option, but think what the world boxing council have done is also good and it will be very interesting to see much interest there will be in this new transgender category. i mean, of course , lot category. i mean, of course, lot of trans activists may object to this. i mean, their view is that trans women, women and trans men are . so by creating a third are. so by creating a third category, you're essentially that viewpoint . what what would that viewpoint. what what would you make of that ? well, trans you make of that? well, trans women are not women. women are human females. trans by definition, are males . definition, are males. otherwise, they wouldn't be trans. and sport is about bodies , sexed bodies that are to male and female. you cannot your sex. so people. people who participate in sport are welcome to identify in whatever way they wish. but sex, birth, male , wish. but sex, birth, male, female is what determines your

physical . and as we all know , physical. and as we all know, have massive physical advantage as compared to females. so trans people must be welcome and included in sport. but that cannot come under any circumstances at the expense of safety and fairness for females . a lot of people make the case that if you're taking hormones, if you're if you're adapting your test australian levels, then this in itself flattens out for any advantage that you would otherwise have. do you think that's a credible view ? no, that's a credible view? no, there are about peer reviewed scientific research papers now which demonstrate that testosterone suppression in an aduu testosterone suppression in an adult male does not remove the massive male advantage as compared to females. some them are testosterone suppression . are testosterone suppression. remove some of the advantages little bit. but unless 100% is removed, we cannot even begin to have the conversation open about is it fair or not. so it is not

an those the results of those papers is what we would expect because the circulating testosterone levels in an adult male is not what gives males their advantages . what gives their advantages. what gives males advantages is having undergone testosterone filled male puberty over a number of years. and once process is concluded , those advantages concluded, those advantages cannot be undone . those cannot be undone. those advantages in boxer punching power males won about 162. greater punching power than females. this is the biggest difference in males . females, if difference in males. females, if we look at it like running's speed swimming, it's up. it's the biggest difference and therefore it's actually clear that boxing must be divided by sex. i mean, when you mention this it just sounds like a complete no brainer and. i'm sure the vast majority of people will be thinking, well, why on earth would you would you consider someone born consider someone who was born male against woman the male against a woman in the boxing yet there to boxing ring? yet there seems to be weight of support for be a great weight of support for this i note today this kind of thing. i note today there was an article in the scientific american saying that

there's justification there's no justification scientifically to you to keep people apart and that gender identity should be the determining factor. well, if you've got the top these medical journals saying this. where is this coming from? why is there this coming from? why is there this kind of this view being disseminated ? well, i think this disseminated? well, i think this must be an example of institutional capture. we've seen organised august organisations from the lancet to the nhs to the aclu in the usa, political parties being captured by activists who push gender identity, ideology . and we have identity, ideology. and we have to resist this because in sport which is my area of expertise, what they are pushing for is the end of women's sport. we beat about the bush here . if you say about the bush here. if you say let's get rid of sex categories, women will not feature in sport at all and if that's what they want . the entitled to hold that want. the entitled to hold that view obviously i don't agree but they need to be upfront about it and say we believe females should not participate in sport.

this is what people need to understand . but a lot of people understand. but a lot of people like yourself, martina navratilova and cher davis. female athletes who speak up about this kind of thing and make the statements that you're making which are so clearly the case and so clearly credible . case and so clearly credible. you get a lot of abuse . people you get a lot of abuse. people attack you for it. and it's quite intimidating. is it actually to make this point that the vast majority of people agree with ? yes, it's pleasant agree with? yes, it's pleasant to get abuse and, you know, fellow female athletes like sharron davies, martina navratilova received a lot of abuse. navratilova received a lot of abuse . but navratilova received a lot of abuse. but this is about navratilova received a lot of abuse . but this is about the abuse. but this is about the future of women's sport . and, future of women's sport. and, you know, without category by sex of us women's sport will disappear. it is already disappearing. i know of female distance runners in the uk who deliberately avoid female competitions because know a male will be present you know and we've seen a horrific injury and

volleyball in the usa recently same in ice hockey you know in a female would be injured or probably killed . they were put probably killed. they were put in the ring with a male fighter. so this is about the future of women's sport. and what i would say to people who are keeping their heads down is, you need to speak you need to find speak up. you need to find courage because it's very obvious in sport. sport is done by bodies, not beliefs or identities , feelings or anything identities, feelings or anything . that and the vast majority of the general public , women's the general public, women's sport being only. when i look replies to tweets by people like dr. emma hilton , dr. john pike, dr. emma hilton, dr. john pike, cathy, dr. ross tucker , the vast cathy, dr. ross tucker, the vast majority of replies, are agreeing with that women's sport must be female, only. agreeing with that women's sport must be female, only . and you must be female, only. and you know, trans people be welcome in sport, no question . i'm not sport, no question. i'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed in sport. therefore the federation must come up with a welcoming and inclusive ways to

include them without without without rid of safety and fairness for females. well, murray, thanks so much for coming and making that case to us. really appreciate it. so that was the former olympic marathon runner and, writer murray yamaguchi. just wanna get my thoughts from my panel on this which makes very clear this which makes a very clear cut case , doesn't she, calvin? cut case, doesn't she, calvin? no, no, just because you've got bigoted who assign you bigoted parents who assign you the gender of birth. why the gender of male at birth. why shouldn't you who drives women? a boy should? you not a sports boy should? you not have do that. have the opportunity to do that. i incredible i i mean, incredible questions. i mean, the mean, you know, that the american fan and fox obviously born at and was boasting born at birth and was boasting onune born at birth and was boasting online about breaking a woman's skull . i mean, this stuff is skull. i mean, this stuff is incredible sport for incredible because sport for men. well well , this is a men. right. well well, this is a good point, isn't it? the fact is the sports were divided is that the sports were divided by begin with so that by sex to begin with so that women could compete. was women could compete. so that was historically why it happened. this is where am with all of this we've spent 5000 years as women in trying to find our

place in the world. we see where we're getting there and all of a sudden this comes along. this whole issue now i think we are all in this life together. we should love trans people the way that we love females and the that we love females and the that we love men. but let there a certain amount of distance in our togetherness as a colleague, gibson said . our togetherness as a colleague, gibson said. but do you think, lizzie, that a lot of young, particularly who are getting into sports , they're nervous into sports, they're nervous about saying anything precisely because of what retort about. because of what my retort about. oh, i know obviously voted oh, so i know obviously voted for this, we have to for saying this, but we have to speak because it is just pure speak up because it is just pure common sense. you cannot have a male at birth boxer get into a ring with a female boxer. it is just clearly unfair. and i think this direct wave of the boxing is association to create this separate category is excellent and they are all seeking transpeople to come forward. so, ali, why we got to this point where major scientific journals are denying scientific reality? i actually have no idea . you i actually have no idea. you just have to like look at in

sport, you have male and female categories. i mean why was that the case? otherwise you should have all in sport. have a free for all in sport. why don't we just have novak djokovic raducanu? mean , djokovic emma raducanu? i mean, why is that the case? why why do women play three sets in women only play three sets in tennis? play five, tennis? whereas when play five, i the answers. this i don't know the answers. this it pretty obvious that it seems pretty obvious that there inherent there are inbuilt inherent differences between men and women physically biologically. and there's nothing wrong with that. but is i struggle that. but this is why i struggle with it, because this we all with it, because this is we all know this is why are know this. this is why we are having debates, calvin, having these debates, calvin, about knows. about something everyone knows. because certain people in authority and academia are telling us all wrong. you're right. we do know that mental, faster and stronger than women. and that's a fact. yeah, but that's the issue that we're talking about facts. we're talking about facts. we're talking truth. a talking about truth. this is a lie. trans movement is a lie is misogyny wrapped up in a false narrative of virtue signalling to tell people it's nice to accept people however they want to lives. no, it's to live their lives. no, it's not not kind to lie to not it's not kind to lie to people kind to go along people is not kind to go along with people's or to with people's delusions or to say is normal it's not

say that this is normal it's not normal a to say he normal for a man to say he a woman. it's not normal for a woman. it's not normal for a woman to say he is a man. and we need to stand up for the truth more often. even having this this qualification. okay, we'll have boxers while have female boxers while mailboxes, have mailboxes, and then we'll have this category this this extra category for this made up gender. know are made up gender. i know there are males females, males that there are females, and it. what about the and that is it. what about the idea of an open category? which would you concede, paul, to much ground. movement ground. the whole trans movement is it's taking is misogynistic. it's taking away women's spaces women's rights caricaturing rights and it's men caricaturing themselves, roles of do you themselves in roles of do you want to come back on that one? yeah, do want come back on yeah, i do want to come back on it because i agree to a certain point. but i have no problem with trans people. it's fine if you to identify as being you want to identify as being trans. fine. we have trans. that's fine. but we have all spaces to and we have fought for centuries , for centuries to for centuries, for centuries to have spaces . you could use have those spaces. you could use it. you can't you can't. have those spaces. you could use it. you can't you can't . you can it. you can't you can't. you can live as a woman, but you can't play live as a woman, but you can't play in a women's sport. either they all woman they're not they all woman or. they're not is for me. it's not is simply not for me. it's not so simple. it's not so black and white. yes, they can have their transport. think that's transport. i think that's absolutely it's kind

absolutely acceptable it's kind and but they and it's inclusive but they cannot into a with my i cannot into a ring with my i mean i'm with you in you know i part company with calvin i feel people should be able to call themselves whatever they want. you know we live in a free society. you can dress however you to acknowledge you want for us to acknowledge that the limit, that fabric. that's the limit, isn't it's when sort of isn't it? it's when you sort of impose those values about yourself onto other people. on this point, i would this one council point, i would someone's want someone's reality if they want me. a trans woman is me. if a trans woman is transitioning to womanhood from being man and they want me to being a man and they want me to address them as a female, i would do that out of courtesy. of course i would. but this is we're talking about boxing here where got a safety where potentially got a safety to contend with. right. so we think the safety more than think the safety issue more than anything than well anything rather than well says it's the acknowledgement anything rather than well says it':the the acknowledgement anything rather than well says it':the truth,a acknowledgement anything rather than well says it':the truth, objective edgement anything rather than well says it':the truth, objective reality,ent of the truth, objective reality, subjective calvin calvin's got a view and absolutely fine view and that's absolutely fine and perfectly know and given that's perfectly know one can have that view i'm saying if someone came to me and wanted addressed as a woman, wanted be addressed as a woman, i them a woman i would address them as a woman or man accordingly. but or a man accordingly. but i don't think that means that you can it in the same category in

sport for a safety issue. now i think inclusivity is important, which boxing which is why the boxing federation has down the federation has gone down the road a separate road of making a separate country. seems reasonable country. that seems reasonable to it feel like the to me, but it does feel like the debate has to at point come debate has to at some point come to end. it's just debate has to at some point come to end. it'sjust rumbling on to an end. it's just rumbling on and and i worry that and on and on. and i worry that actually partly due to actually that's partly due to the both sides so the fact that both sides are so sort intransigent about this. sort of intransigent about this. isn't this a kind compromise isn't this a kind of compromise that workable? yeah, i think that is workable? yeah, i think it compromise. think that it a compromise. i think that are prepared to compromise. i think there a small hardcore minority are just pushing pushing all the time for their own agenda. okay. well, we're going to leave that one there. we're not going to solve that tonight, are we? now, after tonight, are we? but now, after a of constant calls for the cancellation of some of our favourite comedians, is it time for to stand against for comics to stand up against the culture mob and the cancel culture mob and defend free speech 2023? defend our free speech in 2023? comedian and spike columnist simon evans will argue his point after the break. you won't want to .

miss welcome back to mark dolan tonight with andrew doyle now 2022 was many things but a good year for comedy not so much. and as we head the new year, one man is actively calling on comics to stand up against those who believe certain comedians don't deserve a platform . in a piece deserve a platform. in a piece for spiked online gb news presenter comedian and columnist simon evans argues that comedians must fight for their rights to be offensive , rude and rights to be offensive, rude and wrong and i'm delighted to say he joins me now. simon, thanks for joining me tonight. he joins me now. simon, thanks for joining me tonight . can i forjoining me tonight. can i start? simon asking you about how are you. i'm good, thank you. i to talk to you first about jerry southwards. this is about jerry southwards. this is a comedian who figures largely in your in your piece for spiked onune in your in your piece for spiked online a lot of people won't have heard of him or what happened perhaps you can talk us through tell us why it through that and tell us why it doesn't well . well, jerry doesn't bode well. well, jerry said of his has been probably

the most offensive comedian, the most reliably offensive comedian on, the british circuit for at least 30 years. he is widely held by his own peer group to be something of a genius at close up magic card tricks and so on, which is a nice to the extraordinary vulgar party and the eagerness to clear intent to shock is beyond question. he did jokes about nelson mandela at a time when that even you know before correctness made it kind of touchy subject he had famous remarks the swear word you couldn't say on the television, which he did, the television programme, which he was briefly allowed to have. he has an extraordinary, early, well—established track record of being the single most offensive proposition that you're likely to anywhere, at the to anywhere, let alone at the edinburgh festival, and yet performing show at the edinburgh festival this year he managed alarm. i don't think even an audience members i think it was actually some of the front of house staff some of the i don't know what you call them ushers

or whatever of the students usually who are you know, employed during festival season to help the show's smoothly and who's . i hesitate to use the who's. i hesitate to use the word because it's become tied overuse but who's snowflake kind of sensibilities were not adequate to prepare them for this the impact which which he created. well let's be honest by the sound of it was fairly mild stuff set of standards i believe he inhabited the persona of a tory grandee explaining why he couldn't possibly vote for richie sunak. couldn't possibly vote for richie sunak . then he used richie sunak. then he used a racial slur in the character of this tory grandee and wiggled what was almost certainly a prosthetic penis as a front row, which is again a very well—established part of it's trope. but he had his show cancelled. i mean, the show was actually pulled by the venue itself, by the pleasance and that that is a step that's a step beyond people just complaining is something different happening now isn't complaining is something diwhere happening now isn't complaining is something diwhere where pening now isn't complaining is something diwhere where venues now isn't it where where venues and promote seem be taking the promote seem to be taking the complaints more seriously than they . well that was there they should. well that was there were two gigs booked in a large

venue, part of the pleasance range of venues. you know, they have 12 or 15 venues or possibly more now. and you had two subsequent nights and they were pulled so it was it was a blow to him and it was blow to the credibility of the venue. be honest. but can i ask you about this? because something has to my mind changed, this is of we didn't many comedians out in didn't see many comedians out in sort fulsome defence sort of fulsome defence satirists, even the ones who we know deeply respect him and. whereas i feel as though ten or 15 years ago the comedy industry would been united in its would have been united in its condemnation venue that condemnation of a venue that pulled comic. that right? yes pulled a comic. that right? yes think that is true? there were two or three people did two or three people who did stand him myself rather stand up for him myself rather foolishly find out foolishly said we all find out what material it was what piece of material it was the site of its got banned for and then make sure, we do it in our show every night and then found that it found out of course that it involved frontal nudity involved full frontal nudity swept word but but there swept out my word but but there was were there were some was there were there were some alarmingly i don't know lot of alarmingly i don't know a lot of people mastered the now people have mastered the art now just going quiet, kind

just kind of going quiet, kind of stand him , not of refusing to stand by him, not not denouncing out of it's not being seen as being on one side of the fence with the other. we've all learned a little bit. i say we all a great many have learned that there certain learned that there are certain that worth fighting right that are worth fighting right until point when becomes until the point when it becomes possibly detrimental to your career . it's not entirely career. it's not entirely dissimilar england team dissimilar to the england team who wear their rainbow laces until point when they until the point when they actually yellow actually might be in the yellow card. then it all melts card. and then it all melts away. think were one away. and i think there were one or people i won't name or two people i won't name names, but there were one or two people whose head of it's might have up for him, but have to stand up for him, but i'm afraid is. it's it i'm afraid it is. it's it reflects as much as anything. i'm afraid it is. it's it reflestatisticluch as anything. i'm afraid it is. it's it refle statistic we| as anything. i'm afraid it is. it's it refle statistic we all anything. i'm afraid it is. it's it refle statistic we all knowing. i'm afraid it is. it's it refle statistic we all know now the statistic we all know now that three and a half% of the population is it takes to chill the and to change the atmosphere and to change things. like if things. you know, it's like if there a if something becomes there is a if something becomes whatever you want to call it, non—kosher , halal or whatever, non—kosher, halal or whatever, you know, if something becomes verboten within a certain culture to a small minority, they are capable of making everybody else feel rather uncomfortable about it. and that

is in danger of happening in comedy right now. and i think it would disastrous because once that sets in, it spreads that chill sets in, it spreads very quickly. we don't have much time, but just very, very quickly, we push against quickly, how do we push against that comedians ? well, i that then as comedians? well, i mean the first most obvious thing is for every comedian to come out and actually say something about it. but that, of course, does become rather laboured. people actually laboured. most people actually want be amused by comedians want to be amused by comedians rather on rather than hear them on pulpits, political pulpits, know making political case one way or the other. case is one way or the other. i think people have to be reminded how vulgar can how funny, vulgar charity can be. you when used . chris be. you know, when used. chris morris, was a past morris, for instance, was a past master at his bra size series and bra side absolutely and the bra side absolutely shocking and absolutely hilarious and equal in equal measure and i think you have to ally know the ability to shock with the ability to make a point or at least to make people against their better judgement. well we all have to keep standing up for it and being eccentric john stuart eccentric as john stuart mill said, the best defence said, this is the best defence for free speech. well, for street free speech. well, thank much for joining thank you very much for joining me, really me, simon evans, really appreciate it. coming up at 10

pm, to hearing p.m, you're going to hearing about the landlords from hell. and panel won't be returning and my panel won't be returning to tomorrow's newspaper to debate tomorrow's newspaper front pages, and more front pages, all that and more shortly .

it's 10 pm. i'm i'm sitting in for mark dolan tonight. it's 10 pm. i'm i'm sitting in for mark dolan tonight . we've for mark dolan tonight. we've got another cracking hour coming up . my panel and i will be up. my panel and i will be taking the first look at the front pages as. we get them in and plus we'll be debating much maligned landlords can actually be solution britain's be the solution to britain's housing crisis. plus, the fabulous techy. we'll be sitting down. we unpack the biggest showbiz stories of the year and the endless virtue signalling at the endless virtue signalling at the world cup. has it actually done more harm? good. daily star journalist adam kaylor joins me 1045 to explain why it might well have done. but before all of that, it's time for the news with tatiana sanchez . andrew,

with tatiana sanchez. andrew, thank you. this is the latest . thank you. this is the latest. the gb newsroom the government has confirmed anyone travelling directly from china , the uk from directly from china, the uk from the 5th of january must show a negative covid test before departure. health secretary steve barclay described the temporary measures as a balanced and precaution approach. it comes amid concerns about surge case numbers in china following an easing of restrictions there. countries including france and the us and india have also implement similar rules. police have named a man there urgently trying to trace following serious sexual assault on an elderly woman in london hill gate. the victim , aged in her gate. the victim, aged in her seventies, was attacked the evening of the 23rd of december. the met police say they're trying to trace 35 year old james backes of no fixed that urging members of the public not

to approach if spotted but to call 999 immediately. to approach if spotted but to call 999 immediately . west call 999 immediately. west midlands have been given more time to question. two men arrested on suspicion of the murder of a 23 year old man on boxing day. cody fisher died following a knife attack at the cray nightclub in birmingham. the has since had its licence suspended with police saying that serious management failings . another suspect also remains in custody . the family of elle in custody. the family of elle edwards who was killed in merseyside, have paid tribute to most beautiful bright star. the 26 year old was shot at the lighthouse inn on christmas eve while celebrating with family and friends. police are urging with information to come forward . a 30 year old man from tranmere arrested on suspicion of the murder has been recalled to prison . a 19 year old woman to prison. a 19 year old woman from rock ferry has been bailed and a 31 year old man remains in

custody . and romanian prosecutor custody. and romanian prosecutor us have agreed to extend the arrest . online influencer andrew arrest. online influencer andrew tate to 30 days. he's been detained on suspicion of human and rape. the former reality tv star who was detained alongside his brother tristan had his house raided in the capital bucharest. the tate brothers have been under criminal since april . they've declined to april. they've declined to comment . tv april. they've declined to comment. tv online dab pass april. they've declined to comment . tv online dab pass the comment. tv online dab pass the radio . this is gb news novice . radio. this is gb news novice. back to mark dolan tonight with andrew doyle . andrew doyle. it's just gone . 10:00. i'm it's just gone. 10:00. i'm andrew doyle in for mark dolan . andrew doyle in for mark dolan. coming up this hour, my superstar . join me again for the superstar. join me again for the news agenda where we'll be taking a first look at the front

pages. plus, we'll be debating whether the uk housing crisis unlikely be unlikely saviour could be landlords themselves. and after it was revealed that chinese travellers will be required to present a negative before they arrive in the uk is this a step in the wrong direction as we learn to live with covid? and then at 1020, i'm going to be joined by stellar showbiz reporter stephanie techy, who'll be take on some be giving her take on some of the showbiz stories the biggest showbiz stories of 2022. and the 1050, i'm going to be sitting down with daily star journalist adam kayla to discuss whether virtue whether the endless virtue signalling world cup signalling at the world cup in qatar has actually more qatar has actually done more harm than good by making anti—semitism . so that's a jam anti—semitism. so that's a jam packed hour. you're not going to want to . miss let's a first look want to. miss let's a first look at some of tomorrow's front pages. it's . on the mirror. it's pages. it's. on the mirror. it's the king's first ever new year's gong list and honours go to

queen, the iconic, the band's lead . brian may is set to lead. brian may is set to receive a knighthood with england's lionesses and athlete denise lewis , also getting denise lewis, also getting honours and the independent leeds with news that the uk is set to introduce covid tests for people travelling from china . people travelling from china. the mail also reports on sunak demanding covid tests from china arrivals . and and there's that arrivals. and and there's that hopefully the front cover it is there's the front cover of the daily mail that with rishi orders covid on arrival from china. we're going discussing china. we're going to discussing that short while . the that in just a short while. the uk has a housing crisis. the latest manifestation of this is in student housing where students reportedly finding it harder , harder to find a place harder, harder to find a place to live. martin blaikie, the chief executive of the student housing charity unipolar , said, housing charity unipolar, said, quote, we think a significant decrease in shared houses moving back to renting or professionals or leaving the market. some argue that landlords have been over the last few decades and

that this has contributed to the current crisis. so is this true? and do need to make being a landlord a little easier or do we just need to build more houses? back with me now. i'm joined by my stellar panel of gb news and conservative news presenter and conservative commentator calvin commentator, the reverend calvin robinson , social and political robinson, social and political commentator lizzie zita , and commentator lizzie zita, and also political commentator meraj. thank you all for joining meraj. thank you all forjoining me today. just quickly on the on the front pages , if we want, the front pages, if we want, have a quick look at this story. what do you make of this chinese story about the rishi sunak now saying that covid is going there's to have be there's going to have to be tests the border? did you tests at the border? i did you see of course. we see this coming? of course. we haven't learned any lessons over the last or three years of the last two or three years of where going do the same where we're going to do the same rinse cycle year. rinse repeat cycle every year. yeah colds and flus every yeah we get colds and flus every winter we will continue winter season we will continue do will be among do so and covid will be among them. so we have to decide, are we going finally address this and covid year? and live covid or every year? are going to have measures in place, people place, you know, testing people in from in the travelling to or from different putting different countries putting restrictions lockdowns restrictions in place, lockdowns

. continue coming . we can't continue to coming here. you understand here. but do you understand the government's position on this? i mean, when it comes to mean, you know, when it comes to china, they've had this zero—covid, these zero—covid, they've had these very draconian of very extreme draconian form of lockdown. now they've lifted lockdown. and now they've lifted that the you know, the infections are surging . so, infections are surging. so, look, i don't think i think china has got a lot of fans on this whole issue, frankly, because from what we understand, covid from there anyway. and i think that the fact is that the chinese have abandoned zero—covid strategy , crippling zero—covid strategy, crippling our economy. the infection rate is rampant and completely of control. we have no idea what the reported numbers are. we have no whether they're new variants coming out of china ehheni variants coming out of china either. i think it's absolutely the right in the thing to do. and quite honestly , when i hear and quite honestly, when i hear scientists say well, there's no rationale for it's already going to affect a numbers in europe, frankly , rather be cautious, frankly, rather be cautious, quite honestly , france and spain quite honestly, france and spain have also done i think france is italy or spain can't remember. one of them has done the same thing. and i think it's quite that we can do the same, but

based on what just said, we don't have any data. there's no evidence we're not going to get these. the chinese seeing these. the chinese not seeing these. the chinese not seeing the as never get the data such as we never get data china. so what do you data from china. so what do you what model drive what are you putting model drive which will let me finish which if you will let me finish what such a nice. go ahead. what are we putting new measures in place there is no evidence place for? there is no evidence of strain coming from of a new strain coming from china. no evidence of an china. there's no evidence of an increase. cases in increase. the number of cases in china, the restrictions china, what are the restrictions in kelvin. so your in place for su kelvin. so your argument because china is not argument is because china is not actually disclosing data properly impose. properly we shouldn't impose. there's argument is there's you know, my argument is they done so. should they never have done so. should we place for we always have this in place for china is this based on china or is this based on something this is evidence in all that all of these all the case that all of these subsequent variants that have emerged weaker emerged have been weaker variants. the nature variants. and that's the nature of that the virus of the way that the virus evolves. are assuming evolves. so why are we assuming that is some sort of that there is some sort of malignant that malignant variant that is suddenly in china? well, we suddenly made in china? well, we i omicron variant we i mean, the omicron variant we had lockdown on back had another lockdown on the back of know that kelvin and of that. i know that kelvin and anti and fine. anti lockdowns and that's fine. i slightly different view i a slightly different view particularly at the onset of covid didn't we should covid i didn't think we should i thought should have had a

thought we should have had a lockdown. remember i lockdown. i still remember i think in march, the when think it was in march, the when the johnson, the prime the boris johnson, the prime minister, and that minister, stood up and said that we're to lose loved ones we're going to lose loved ones before their time. fair yourselves. thought, these yourselves. and i thought, these guys what talking guys are not what is he talking about? government's imposed about? the government's imposed obviously nothing. so if the government cautious government wants to be cautious this i think it's very this time, i think it's very sensible approach. yeah, but lizzie not the case that lizzie is it not the case that maybe being overly cautious has led problems? know, led to more problems? you know, know that infections of other kinds spreading kinds of diseases are spreading more our immune systems more rapidly? our immune systems are at the moment, are so weak at the moment, thanks two of lockdown, thanks to two years of lockdown, we know what the we don't know what the ramifications going ramifications are going be from that. it is that that. ultimately, it is that everybody's sick. i've never known my everybody known in time in my everybody sick. the kids are sick. the grandparents everybody grandparents are sick. everybody in sick. and it's in between is sick. and it's because we've had two years of being not picking being inside and not picking up the and strengthening the bacteria and strengthening our systems. however, think our systems. however, i think that good thing that that it is a good thing that people arriving . china people are arriving. china should have to show negative test. do you not fear that this might be a sort of stepping stone towards another? no, i don't. don't we'd have don't. i don't think we'd have it more . i don't think it any more. i don't think anything know . no, we anything we don't know. no, we would wouldn't

would not. i wouldn't hydropower. you wouldn't about it in terms of the fact that i would not knock down the way that i did before and isolate people in particular the people isolate in particular the kids, etc. i would not do that based is a culture . china had based is a culture. china had some the most draconian some of the most draconian policies for entering policies for anyone entering their country for like the best part of last three years right and now people are like saying, well, why should we ask for evidence of vaccination or or negative covid test before they come home? used to be having to lock yourself for days in hotels to china. but i also think i think that in china , those think that in china, those alleged covid lockdowns are a bit of a cover up for civil dissent . i bit of a cover up for civil dissent. i think an awful lot of thatis dissent. i think an awful lot of that is happening in china the moment all of this is a slippery slope. but all the boiling the water, boiling the frog in the boiling water one step boiling water just one step after other, but also is after the other, but also is covid that i think covid even that bad? i think you're right. everyone's you're right. and everyone's sick. has the cold sick. not everyone has the cold or the flu right now. yes i didn't recognise that over the last years. didn't see last two years. i didn't see vast people getting vast numbers of people getting sick covid. the who

sick with covid. the people who were vulnerable certainly were vulnerable were certainly dying no, dying and. lots of people. no, no, no, no. lots of people no, no, no, no. lots of people died because of midazolam. lots of because of government of people because of government measures of sick people in nursing lots people nursing homes. lots of people didn't die due to covid. what we know that went from know is that people went from the from the mortuary the hospital, from the mortuary to homes in black bags to funeral homes in black bags without being seen by a coroner and just labelled as covid. we know know. a lot know that we don't know. a lot of died from covid. of people died from covid. i don't that did, don't believe that they did, really. what you make really. i think what you make that i think that i have so far i've heard something so bizarre, frankly. i feel that frankly. so why do i feel that the evidence, the statistics if you me how many people you can tell me how many people have from well, have died from covid? well, look, that we look, unless saying that we don't any any faith in, don't have any any faith in, the government at at government statistics at all at the mean, we don't the time. i mean, we don't because we we've is because we we've we know is because we we've we know is because the government was mocking people as died with covid mean we do we have covid not i mean we do we have a lot of faith in that doing well we know the prime minister lots of first the who of people first need the who die. know lots of from die. well we know lots of from covid or whatever it is so sad to say but the point is also it's very sad, but it's all that it's very sad, but it's all that

it the prime minister it goes all the prime minister nearly in from covid, nearly apparently in from covid, he was in intensive care that is the that changed the propaganda that changed a lot moods you'll lot of people's moods you'll nofice lot of people's moods you'll notice all right. let's notice as well. all right. let's got people in line with got a lot of people in line with lockdowns. mentioned covid. got a lot of people in line with lockslippery mentioned covid. got a lot of people in line with lock slippery slope�*ntioned covid. got a lot of people in line with lockslippery slope isioned covid. got a lot of people in line with lock slippery slope is the.i covid. got a lot of people in line with lockslippery slope is the. do )vid. the slippery slope is the. do you think that this is a deliberate policy? you know, we're going to we're to we're going to we're going to start people as start testing chinese people as they the country and they come into the country and then next will be a then the next step will be a lockdown. as says, is lockdown. or, as lizzie says, is it the case that there's no it just the case that there's no appetite for? it's just not going no, no, it was going to happen? no, no, it was we've and time again, we've this time and time again, people along with it every people go along with it every single time. and i really do think people not go think that the people not go along with it, but also because the to the economy, the the damage to the economy, the damage mental damage to people's mental health, cancer health, the damage to cancer patients on education, which we were at were talking about, all of at the time, still went the time, and it's still went ahead went through ahead and people went through with to with it. well, in fairness to government, we really government, we didn't really know were dealing, maybe know what we were dealing, maybe not march 2020, but by the not in march 2020, but by the end of last year we did and people still with it. people still went with it. i would agree with okay. would agree with that. okay. well, to ask you as well, i just want to ask you as well about this about well about this story about housing and about whether we should it for landlords. do

should make it for landlords. do you have thoughts, this you have any thoughts, this story about the student housing? well, think housing in well, i do think that housing in general problem general is a massive problem in the country and social housing in particular is a big problem. and you look at what happened to that old kid who that young two year old kid who died rochdale is died from damp in rochdale is unacceptable. the unacceptable. and the ombudsman's and said ombudsman's come out and said that swathes social that there are swathes of social housing country that are housing in this country that are unfit for so private private landlords are all part the landlords are all part of the solution. but we need to build 3000 more homes. now, that's not. net migration , 504,000. so not. net migration, 504,000. so what are we going to put everyone i mean, that's the fundamental problem is people can't even get to the housing, just have to build more houses. we do to build more, we need to build 340,000 and more houses per year until i think it's . per year until i think it's. 2026 where they will be and where they're going to go. it is a huge problem. but that the landlords are the market place left right and centre in three years. the amount rental properties gone down 40% across the uk. that is a mass amount.

so what happens? and the government keep fiddling around with it, they introduce something called section 24, which means that the landlords are on their turnover and not on their profits . so we need their profits. so we need changes of policy to make any changes of policy to make any changes in policy. and also, michael has got a white paper going through at the moment which which threatens to take away section 21. now there are good landlords and there are bad landlords and there are good tenants and there are bad tenants. and we need we need to have a system that is fair because otherwise what will happenis because otherwise what will happen is that the landlords are just going to leave the marketplace in droves. it's to force up the rents and there's going to be less than this property of just some stats for you.the property of just some stats for you. the student accommodation students compiled data suggesting a deficit of suggesting there's a deficit of 270,000 student beds in the uk , 270,000 student beds in the uk, 19 towns and cities where there is more than a 10% undersupply of beds . for students of kelvin, of beds. for students of kelvin, this is a pretty dire situation if you're a student, isn't it it

is a pretty dire situation for students, but not students. nobody afford to in nobody can afford to get in ladder and everyone's ladder anymore and everyone's renting, which is one of the reasons think actually the reasons i think actually the government working with government to start working with landlords. and that over government to start working with lan

and longer to the age of 40 and beyond, they simply beyond, because they simply cannot. look median cannot. if you look at median earnings, house prices. earnings, you look house prices. it's and best it's exponential. and the best thing thatcher ever did it was allowing people enabling people thing thatcher ever did it was allowirtheirople enabling people thing thatcher ever did it was allowirtheir own enabling people thing thatcher ever did it was allowirtheir own homes; people thing thatcher ever did it was allowirtheir own homes. butople thing thatcher ever did it was allowirtheir own homes. but the to buy their own homes. but the successive governments not successive governments have not rebuilt exactly that's rebuilt homes. exactly that's the thatcher's policy was the thing. thatcher's policy was fine, housing stock was fine, but the housing stock was not. yeah, it was the right time there. but. but coming up after there. but. but coming up after the break, we are going to be unpacking some of the biggest moments year and moments in showbiz this year and reflect on some of the big names that we lost, say in a moment.

welcome back to mark dolan tonight. with me, andrew doyle . tonight. with me, andrew doyle. so 2022 wasn't only a big year in politics in the showbiz world as well from an ex cabinet minister swapping westminster for the to jungle royals starting a netflix war with their own family , the last year their own family, the last year has been anything but boring . has been anything but boring. and to give us our roundup of some of the major showbiz

stories of the year, i'm to say i'm now joined showbiz i'm now joined by showbiz journalist stephanie techy. thanks joining low thanks so much forjoining low entry. i to start vivienne entry. i want to start vivienne westwood because obviously it's very, very sad news of it passing the other day . were you passing the other day. were you a fan? i was a massive fan of vivienne westwood. when you think of fashion and icons dame vivienne westwood is right at the top of that there will be another there'll be no other like vivienne westwood. she was definitely a rebel without a cause from her designs from when she entered the industry in the seventies. you know coming ushering punk look the tears , ushering punk look the tears, the change all that aesthetic . the change all that aesthetic. vivienne westwood was a pioneer that and it wasn't just about fashion for her. she was like a real life punk, but also she was anti establishment. she was a pioneer . she anti establishment. she was a pioneer. she was one of the few designers actually mixed politics fashion and music, quite you know, in her latter years , it was all about activism years, it was all about activism for her. so she died a designer, but also an activist as well. we

have that icon, that sort of punk established anti establishment thing. yeah, a lot of the sort of major movers and shakers in fashion seem to be quite pro—establishment. well, that's that's it's such that's the that's why it's such a why i feel like we've a loss. why i feel like we've lost the godmother of the stone nafion lost the godmother of the stone nation because there's not many vivienne westwood quite vivienne westwood she were quite outspoken and not just about selling clothes. that was more than clothes to vivienne. it was a lifestyle she lived she a lifestyle she lived what she preached and every time i've interviewed her was all about what . she felt needed to change what. she felt needed to change in this . and she was very vocal in this. and she was very vocal about and she inspired many people from old to young. so it's such a big loss. but her work will continue. and you've met you interviewed so many people like paris, she was what you see is what you with vivienne you know if go on vivienne you know if you go on media there's so many media today, there's so many people their memories of people showing their memories of how warm, loving she was. but at the same 5 minutes with the same time, 5 minutes with her, be money to her, she'll be making money to get and go join get a picture and go join somewhere you know, can somewhere which, you know, can or just somewhere which, you know, can orjust argue about or activism or just argue about or activism and the right to the end. yeah,

it was right there, you know, as her husband said, she was working to have very last day. so this is a woman who i don't think was ready to leave us. and that's think her work will that's why i think her work will continue years . so let continue for many years. so let me you about harry and me ask you about harry and meghan. it's been a meghan. i mean it's been a massive for them. oh in massive year for them. oh in terms of netflix terms of the netflix documentary, i must confess i haven't oh andrew , but haven't watched. oh andrew, but do . what are your thoughts about do. what are your thoughts about that? presumably you have seen it. yeah, i felt like to be honest, i was i felt initially like harry and meghan have sold their soul to netflix for. £88 million? yeah but when i watched it, i realised actually. this is their chance to get their story out there. then i would say about that, you know, for a very time the media have had their say on so many stories. time the media have had their say on so many stories . as you say on so many stories. as you know, the public we just read what's there, we see what's there. think story. there. we think that says story. so watching netflix so actually watching netflix thing was quite juicy come on thing it was quite juicy come on meghan's actress so she's going to perform for the cameras which was expected but it's

was totally expected but it's all harry i was a bit disappointed then because harry has thrown his under a bus and he's exposed so many private moments, you know, him falling out with william, a falling with king charles, but also you can understand why he was forced to leave the royal family. and meghan, as well. so it's interesting to see things from their perspective, but at the same doing this, have same time doing this, they have alienated a lot of people in this who feel, as you this country who feel, as you say, that the royals under the bus at a sensitive time within the queen. you know , can you the queen. you know, can you understand perspective understand that perspective as well? that well? i do understand that perspective, think you perspective, but i think you watch three, six episodes of watch all three, six episodes of this documentary series. you realise all the pressure that meghan was facing, you know, from metoo is kind of like history repeating itself with harry mother as well. harry and his mother as well. and you have to understand how he's royal from birth and he's been a royal from birth and he's been a royal from birth and he's very stifled a part of he's felt very stifled a part of this institution as he talks about it in the series. and you can kind of understand got to a point where he as he says he has to his family but he's protected

and the kids but he's thrown his brother. do you think brother. and how do you think that can be that can be reconciled any way, or is the damage think the damage now being think the damage now being think the damage done? i think damage has been done? i think the have done right thing by the have done the right thing by not, answering back to not, you know, answering back to harry. think in terms of harry. but i think in terms of them trust for harry, i don't think it's going to be the case. and know what, andrew, he and you know what, andrew, he has autobiography coming out has his autobiography coming out january been january 10th and it's been dubbed as being and dubbed as being raw and unflinching , honest. so there is unflinching, honest. so there is more to come. he's signed a £30 million with penguin random house for a full book till . so house for a full book till. so even after this book comes this volume there's four volumes andrew there's going to be more to come. so i think this relationship has been damaged, but i respect them for actually owning narrative of their story . so can i ask you, sticking with the royal family here we see the other day, channel 4 put out their prince andrew musical. now a lot of people have been very critical about this because, of course, you know, channel 4 can't dabble in that. haven't proven so. so has to

move around those kind things. but appropriate , given the but is it appropriate, given the sort of nature of the occasions that have been made for this kind of musical to totally love, to have my popcorn out and i it because he this way royals have always been the source of material whether it's books whether the netflix series or whether the netflix series or whether it's a documentary or films . so why not a comedy ? you films. so why not a comedy? you know well about prince andrew i if we can just stephanie just have a quick look at a clip of this . it was have a quick look at a clip of this. it was the car have a quick look at a clip of this . it was the car crash from this. it was the car crash from city that shocked the world. the royal highness, how do you think that went? well. oh i nailed it . i did everything right. now comes the musical extravaganza answer of the year, the season unforgettable, unmissable with just a whiff of treason . some of just a whiff of treason. some of the songs any good just as musical. it felt like it was quite cheesy. and that's why i felt like , actually, you know, felt like, actually, you know, prince andrew , he watched. i prince andrew, he watched. i don't think he would have much be angry about because to be i

think they took the edge out of what is been quite an embarrassing situation asian for prince andrew you he has been the part the royal jokes for the part of the royal jokes for all long and to be honest all year long and to be honest watching it wasn't as watching this it wasn't as controversial as thought it controversial as i thought it was to be. it was quite was going to be. it was quite happy lucky was actually happy go lucky it was actually about the act is an actress isn't it less about prince andrew. yeah, looks very jazz andrew. yeah, it looks very jazz are upbeat. is. you've are very upbeat. it is. you've got tracks in there got about seven tracks in there and you know, it's all explaining. taken explaining. it's taken a light—hearted approach to this and think we have to see this as light—hearted approach to this a|light nk we have to see this as light—hearted approach to this a|light even; have to see this as light—hearted approach to this a|light even thougho see this as light—hearted approach to this a|light even though there this as light—hearted approach to this a|light even though there has as a light even though there has a victim out of all of this . you victim out of all of this. you know, wouldn't be surprised know, i wouldn't be surprised the future if there will be a more series looking at prince andrew and happened with this situation. but you just situation. yeah, but you just don't this particularly don't think this is particularly distasteful. don't think it's distasteful. no don't think it's distasteful. no don't think it's distasteful think it's distasteful at all. i think it's comedy a festive comedy which comedy is a festive comedy which we needed . and to be honest we all needed. and to be honest as andrew, when i watched as well, andrew, when i watched , learned things , i actually learned things about andrew. doesn't about prince andrew. it doesn't just focus on case, it looks about actually him actually, you know, helping in the falklands war. story . sarah war. and his story. sarah ferguson we actually got to ferguson so we actually got to

learn a bit more about prince andrew the man well tunes and an education. yeah i didn't realise . yeah, let's move finally to wagatha christie trial. now you sent me through this because why are we still interested in footballers wives and their spats ? why is this being such a spats? why is this being such a big deal? because never seen a libel case . this in the whole of libel case. this in the whole of history and it was quite expensive history and it was quite expensiv e £4 million . you have expensive £4 million. you have two wags who were well—off coleen rooney and rebekah vardy and rooney in that and coleen rooney in that stories have been leaking in press and she's like, okay , i'm press and she's like, okay, i'm going to do my own sting operation . and she out operation. and she finds out it's been rebekah and she names and shame to which rebekah vardy did not take lying down and says, going see coleen says, i'm going to see coleen reading renee for she takes her to court and. rebekah vardy ends up looking like the loser of this, which she was because the judge agreed that coleen was right with but rebekah right with that. but rebekah didn't come out this because didn't come out of this because she lot of accusations she made a lot of accusations which proved untrue, a lot of stories which just didn't make sense. coleen been the woman

sense. so coleen been the woman that's actually walked away a head high like this. it's a shame because all during shame because all along during this case never wanted it to go to high court. both of them to the high court. both of them have spent much money, spend have spent so much money, spend up to £4 now that she's up to £4 million now that she's lost this case. and what was it for? just some entertainment drama . and it doesn't stop that. drama. and it doesn't stop that. we've already seen on channel 4, there's been a court case from what they've made of it. traumatise right? traumatise inevitably, right? westend there was play in westend there was also play in next, but next in 2023, coleen will her say in a disney documentary , wow. okay. three documentary, wow. okay. three part disney documentary. so she's got a lot to say about it, but it just goes to show how celebrity culture can sometimes be toxic . and when people have be toxic. and when people have a lot of money like these wives stay, you . rebekah. so let me stay, you. rebekah. so let me take it the high. but it take it to the high. but it wasn't great because a lot of their personal life was put there for the public see. and there for the public to see. and obviously they've got two footballer usually footballer husbands. he usually just get get on with the just want to get get on with the game. they have to be forced to direct too. cool. yeah well, stephanie, actually, thanks so

much coming in in. after it much for coming in in. after it was revealed that the uk government is planning to require negative covid tests from chinese travellers , my from chinese travellers, my panel and i will debate whether this a step in the wrong direction as we learn to live with covid. and plus we're going to looking of to be looking at more of tomorrow's see in tomorrow's front. see in a moment .

welcome back to mark dolan tonight with me andrew doyle. more pages have just dropped so we've got the time . leading with we've got the time. leading with this story about a covid leading to an increase in heart deaths after chris whitty warned that thousands did not, statins . the thousands did not, statins. the guardian has also led with sunak imposing covid testing measures on those arriving from china.

that's going to be the big story and the express they are running with jail scandal criminals free to prowl streets are apparently than 700 prisoners have escaped or been released in error from jails during the past decade . so jails during the past decade. so the uk government will announce that people arriving from china need a negative covid 19 test before travelling. the u—turn comes after several of the countries, including the us, imposed their own pre—screening measures on chinese after a surge in covid cases in the communist state. and in another alarming throwback to covid restrictions to nhs hospitals have recently banned the majority of their visitors and instructed patients to wear on the wards. bosses at northampton general hospital and kettering general hospital and kettering general hospital and kettering general hospital trust say move is needed to protect patients on the wards from significant increase in covid and flu. however, conservative mp alice kearns called the decision quote wrong and cruel . so back with me

wrong and cruel. so back with me now i am joined by stellar panel of gb news presenter and conservative commentator, the reverend kelvin robinson, social and political commentator lizzie zita , political commentator ali zita, political commentator ali maraj. i've got to come to you first, lizzie. what do you make of this wearing masks again? i mean, it does feel like those days are gone, doesn't it? or are they going to come back. we've had a massive increase. sick. just talking sick. we've just been talking about people in the studio about it. people in the studio have people got have been ill. people have got covid of course, certain covid of flu. of course, certain amount of hospitals are going to say, put mask on. say, look, put your mask on. it's going to protect the vulnerable people . i think it's vulnerable people. i think it's completely normal. you would always going back for always isolate going back for centuries . if somebody was sick, centuries. if somebody was sick, the first thing that you would do is isolate them. but i suppose the concern is that the masks sort of now really do symbolise something to do with the lockdown. the the pandemic, the lockdown. the research started to show that they really much and. they didn't really do much and. therefore, meant that the therefore, it meant that the mask sort of a symbol of the mask was sort of a symbol of the government telling us what to do. people are do. and i think people are nervous that. are they?

nervous about that. are they? calvin is covid nervous about that. are they? calvin again is covid nervous about that. are they? calvin again into is covid nervous about that. are they? calvin again into a covid nervous about that. are they? calvin again into a theatre? we tyranny again into a theatre? we we've that the we've always known that the masks don't really do anything negative a negligible difference indeed but it's a sign of compliance for the government it's a sign of doing something for the hospitals is a sign of showing that they're putting in place to protect you. but for health, it has impact health, it has no impact whatsoever. of going whatsoever. it's a sign of going along. on a second. there along. hang on a second. there are masks do work. are certain masks that do work. there certain masks being there are certain masks being out. on a minute screen out. hang on a minute screen out. hang on a minute screen out. but i'm going spank you in a minute. no, out. but i'm going spank you in a minute . no, that out. but i'm going spank you in a minute. no, that kind of out. but i'm going spank you in a minute . no, that kind of shows a minute. no, that kind of shows is a the problem. okay. you can go on about certain particular problems. there are some masks there are still people even in beds. not working wearing beds. i'm not working wearing hand modified masks. there are some masks that are more effective . that doesn't matter effective. that doesn't matter because people aren't wearing them. people are wearing them, you know what you know. you don't know what mask. do. what mask. yes, we do. we do. what must the ppe ? you tell me must the ppe? you tell me categorically what , masks have categorically what, masks have been in those two homes. been chosen in those two homes. the ppe, most of that they will have patients wearing. i'm not an five and they're not wearing

this. special mask that we this. the special mask that we see on twitter in see people wearing on twitter in the that show off the bios that want to show off that they've got these special breathing special that they've got these special breatrfor special that they've got these special breatrfor the special that they've got these special breatrfor the drinkerspecial that they've got these special breatrfor the drinkers of cial that they've got these special breatrfor the drinkers of the plugs for the drinkers of the might be might be really might be it might be really scientific can work the scientific that can work but the vast majority of miles that people are wearing do not make a difference. so is purchasing signalling the signalling this is this was the point yeah think liz is point that yeah i think liz is right know that there are right we know that there are masks are effective in masks that do are effective in this but the cloth that this but the cloth masks that everyone wearing we know everyone was wearing we know aren't really all that affected they're of comfort blanket they're more of comfort blanket which have value to it. but which may have value to it. but isn't about symbolism isn't it about the symbolism of what represent calvin what they represent as calvin argues? i am argues? well, look, i am surprised this is even surprised that this is even a story, because i to visit story, because i went to visit family of mine just a family friend of mine just a couple in couple of months ago in a hospital in watford general election. was wearing a mask election. i was wearing a mask everywhere. was expected that you a mask was i'm you would wear a mask was i'm not sure what story not really sure what the story is because. every hospital i'm going into you're expected wear a mask the story like listen it's that's great it's normal now that's the great shame this. they've shame about all this. they've changed in changed our culture. i was in central yesterday. people central london yesterday. people are outside with are walking around outside with these their these blooming things on their face. sad it is. is face. that's how sad it is. is there something sad about this

and your. but, you know, the fact we now sort of see fact that we now sort of see each other biohazards, the each other as biohazards, the fact we see beings as fact that we see human beings as i a case of common i think is a case of common courtesy . i mean, you've got courtesy. i mean, if you've got if got a cold or flu or if you've got a cold or flu or someone around on the someone walking around on the tube in public space or tube or in a public space or going a hospital, then cover going to a hospital, then cover yourself. i don't think is needed. is this nonsense. i heard day people heard the other day people asking government guidance be asking government guidance to be to told that you should go to be told that you should go and your gran on christmas and see your gran on christmas if a cold i mean that if you've got a cold i mean that should be left to commonsense quite honestly. yeah i just read there's no common no there's no common sense, no facilities for facilities like in japan, for example, wear lot of example, they wear a lot of masks because consider it masks because they consider it to polite. if you've got cold to be polite. if you've got cold in your sniffling , i don't want in your sniffling, i don't want to be on a train, you know , and to be on a train, you know, and coughing and sneezing everywhere , dehumanising. but we the people to wear masks, mask. we see each other faces. and frankly , we are so with . do you frankly, we are so with. do you think this is the slippery slope? basically that of course it is going along with the fear to say we oblige your tyranny next around we should say no to

most absolutely anywhere unless they properly the ones that they are properly the ones that liz was talking about that will an impact that they don't give out. those are far too expensive. exact potentially. you you know if you know it does. you know if you've cold you've got you've got a cold if you've got a get out. if you're a sneeze, get out. if you're going cough, your elbow going to cough, use your elbow like we've just see what's like these we've just see what's going so i've been in place of people are so often in coughing we all catch colds catch the flu we all catch colds catch the flu we always have done yeah we're getting squeamish about cutting the old because lizzie is there a worry that throughout the pandemic one of the main concerns that people aren't trusting human beings anymore and the government doesn't trust the precaution the public to take precaution for themselves. know, for themselves. you know, i mean, were sorts mean, there were all sorts of very overly draconian very of overly draconian measures by the police where they were going through people's shopping trolleys to see that they non—essential they weren't non—essential items. drones, the items. there were drones, the lake district go in in lake district having a go in in that actually, if you that dog. and actually, if you just people you know, just trust people to, you know, if ill, stay inside, if they're ill, stay inside, shield themselves. aren't we able do without having able to do that without having nanny us? yeah. no, nanny state on us? yeah. no, i would agree that. absolutely. i

would agree that. absolutely. i would agree that. absolutely. i would agree with that. but in certainly talking certainly if you're talking about hospital where people about a hospital where people are responsible for vulnerable people, if they ask you to wear a mask, then wear a mask. no biggie. would you support three years well not because we years life? well not because we did watch three years ago. we didn't these things that spread very, very quickly . we've always very, very quickly. we've always had coronavirus. we have always lived with coronavirus, a party. and at that party it infected. so there was somebody there who had covid and everybody got it. oh, dear so it was, you know, it was let's just imagine that in 2023, i should have my mum wear a mask. well just not going to do wear one is one of the problems that have come. yes. my part is you can ask if for whatever reason more covid restrictions are introduced a form of lockdown would be to be introduced. know that lizzie has already said she wouldn't . no, i already said she wouldn't. no, i wouldn't. but do you think would comply and do you think that people should comply. it depends what what instances what the what the instances mean. i believe in

mean. i don't believe in hypothetical situations. i mean, we and i think we have to wait and see, i think it would be lot now to it would be a lot harder now to get compliance with get public compliance with anything that matt anything given fact that matt hancock grabbing hancock was was grabbing his partner had all sorts of partner and you had all sorts of break downs and that coming up when he grabbed what he wants but but but not when it's a married man not when he's looking down. sir also another point, but it was two consenting adults, but all of these that whatever is going on or whatever . yeah. so i think i think malcolm compliance is going to be a challenge because of the fact that this guy is of course and all the partygate and also. yeah i'm not saying that if there was never if there were a specific circumstances where, there's something completely new. we need that . we'll have to new. we need that. we'll have to discuss time. but discuss it at the time. but there was something distressing, wasn't i don't know if wasn't there? i don't know if you saw the economist's survey about there was about this, where there was a substantial proportion people substantial proportion of people who were saying they like curfews forever more, curfews to last forever more, even because the even if covid, because the people the lockdown did what is going on there because people

some people are just crack to beat. some people just crackers. i know some members of my family who said, oh, god know if people are very nervous and if they have that streak inside them, they're going to grow up to that and say, yeah we should be just isolated forever. we should be because they're not they're a bit unstable . don't you start bit unstable. don't you start also. oh, i'm sorry, calvin. people, it's not just that they're afraid or nervous, as people like to be ruled. people like to be governed. they like be told what to do. that's the most amazing revelation. i think. always think. you know, i always fight for our freedoms. well, i assume that the british public wouldn't for our freedoms. well, i assume thattoe british public wouldn't for our freedoms. well, i assume that to be ritish public wouldn't for our freedoms. well, i assume that to be ritishwhat ic wouldn't for our freedoms. well, i assume that to be ritishwhat to wouldn't for our freedoms. well, i assume that to be ritishwhat to dorldn't for our freedoms. well, i assume that to be ritishwhat to do to n't for our freedoms. well, i assume that to be ritishwhat to do to be like to be told what to do to be susceptible or that susceptible to a nudge or that kind thing. i mean, that we kind of thing. i mean, that we shouldn't be should we trust the pubuc shouldn't be should we trust the public more ali, we trust public more ali, we should trust the public but you the public more. but you mentioned unit. the mentioned the nudge unit. the nudge because it was nudge unit set up because it was meant nudging behaviour. i meant be nudging behaviour. i meant be nudging behaviour. i mean like stuff that mean this is like the stuff that was done by the chicago economists, right, to try and move people saving for move people into saving for their pensions whatever their pensions or whatever it may it was a and we have may be. yes it was a and we have a that actually goes in

a default that actually goes in a default that actually goes in a direction. you have to a certain direction. you have to unpick another unpick it to go in another direction. i mean, i don't i'm not there's anything not sure there's anything particularly in that. but i particularly bad in that. but i do think should take do think people should take personal for personal responsibility for themselves. pandemic themselves. but the pandemic was, a hundred year was, a once in a hundred year event, just real. you event, let's just get real. you know the last one was know it was the last one was 2009 sakes. but in 2009 for goodness sakes. but in my lifetime, calvin, we have not a country since a lockdown in this country since . in life. . i've been in life. we shouldn't have shouldn't have happened first place. is happened in the first place. is there trust issue though? there a trust issue now, though? i know, we've seen all i mean, you know, we've seen all sorts censorship of people's sorts of censorship of people's discussions about this topic. we've you know, we've seen big tech, you know, kicking off youtube of kicking people off youtube of twitter, for twitter, whatever, just for having conversation about having a conversation about these . you know, at one these things. you know, at one point saying that the point they were saying that the idea had from idea the covid had leaked from a lab wuhan was a racist lab in wuhan was a racist conspiracy theory. and now everyone probably li everyone thinks it's probably li wenliang, guy actually wenliang, the guy actually raised who raised the ophthalmologist who sort raised the alarm in 2019 sort of raised the alarm in 2019 december. he actually was told to sign a statement saying that he was disrupting public order and he died later of covid. right. | and he died later of covid. right. i mean, he was the one who said that in a healthy society, you should have more

than one voice. but says that there should be no restrictions imposed in the first place. so explain more. thousands of people then did. people would have died then did. oh, thousands oh, please. thousands of people did die because it. did not die because of it. i more are dying because of more people are dying because of the lockdowns the the results, lockdowns and the other restrictions from other restrictions done from covid itself. so i mean, i think sure, that definitely course but it's detrimental to society it's so detrimental to society clearly mean , look, maybe clearly but i mean, look, maybe calvin's more scientifically than i am. i don't know. but the point is i do think it was completely new it was a massive issue. it was virulent. his prevalence was, oh, so many on its knees. can you imagine if the government had done nothing ? i wish i wish i wish would have noticed a difference. hang a second. let me stop telling me to hang on to say because you keep interrupting me. so imagine if we'd done nothing and the government had said okay last year out party, do year for a go out party, do whatever you carry on, they have been absolute. whatever they did as well. i mean, i think everybody did it was going to be wrong because it was such a huge problem if they allow people all their freedoms say oh look

they're murdering everyone but they're murdering everyone but the they could do , right? the least they could do, right? well and wouldn't go well absolutely. and wouldn't go i appreciate matt hancock because of all of the brilliant meme well they're all they're they're all to be thankful for anyway. coming up, i'm going to be sitting down with star be sitting down with daily star journalist adam to find why journalist adam to find out why the endless virtue signalling at the endless virtue signalling at the world in qatar may have the world cup in qatar may have done more damage it did done more damage than it did good fight against good in the fight against antisemitism . you'll get all antisemitism. you'll get all those after the .

break welcome back to mark dolan tonight out with me andrew doyle . now the entire spectacle of the world cup qatar was filled with never virtue signalling hypocrisy , right from the hypocrisy, right from the players on the pitch to the presenters home, overshadowed by

celebrities falling over themselves to take qatari money. many jewish fans and israelis in qatar found themselves shouted at and intimidated during the world cup. israeli journalist in particular often found themselves harassed by football fans. themselves harassed by football fans . incidents of palestinian fans. incidents of palestinian flags being waved at them, seemingly ignored by qatari authorities who did crack down hard on other political symbols. and i have to say to discuss these issues, i'm joined by daily star journalist adam , daily star journalist adam, kayla. adam, thanks so much for joining me tonight. can you talk to us a little bit to begin with? kind of things did with? what kind of things did the journalists experience while in qatar so a lot of videos from fighting with what happened, you know, they were being they were just interviewing fans like other journalist was doing from any other country . and then at any other country. and then at the end people would say, where you from? they would say they're from israeli tv or why the stations israel they were from . stations israel they were from. people would walk away and chant things them. would things like them. people would say, to speak to

say, i wouldn't want to speak to you because from israeli tv or there was a video of an england fan was by hundreds of fan who was by hundreds of people just chanting free palestine to an israeli journalist or what a qatari news i it was with absolutely zero prompting there it was a very uncomfortable atmosphere for israeli reporters all over and of course for israeli as well who experienced all of things. why do you think it is? i mean we've heard a lot about lgb rights in qatar. the fact they don't any and also of course you know various other issues whether slavery for instance the building of the stadiums by migrants which resulted in many deaths and all of that kind of thing. but we didn't hear so much about this strain of anti why do you think that is ? well, why do you think that is? well, i think lot of people would know that actually fifa made two big promises , jewish friends and promises, jewish friends and israeli fans , carol, that they israeli fans, carol, that they promised the free availability of food, all venues and that

would be areas forjewish people to , you know , religious jewish to, you know, religious jewish people free three times a day. and obviously, there was a few about whether or not there those two promises were taken back very quickly before the world started. so jewish fans who got lyrics , rights and kosher foods lyrics, rights and kosher foods that was non they were not allowed to pray publicly anyway . these were done for security reasons that was that was the reasons that was that was the reason they gave if this has happened to any of community there will be uproar . happened to any of community there will be uproar. but for some reason when happened to the jewish community, jewish media picked up on it. i don't think it was in any other newspaper in the us. we found there's no real for it other than basically jews don't seem to matter when it comes to this kind of thing. well, of course. i mean, this is the of david beadle's recent book on the subject jews don't count and. he makes the case that is very, that actually the left is very, very at sort of picking on very good at sort of picking on racism and, you know, discrimination against minority

groups reason has groups but for some reason has kind of blind spot when it comes to anti—semitism. that's something seen something that you've seen getting this country i, getting worse this country i, um, i would i would say it's got more to the fringe side of the left it is still prevalent it's not as prevalent as. it was three or four years ago , but it three or four years ago, but it is still there. no one has yet been able to come up with a reason as to when it comes to racism more or any kind of hatred towards any minority when it comes to jewish people that side of politics just don't really seem to care about. they also say if this was any of community i happen to doubt that it would have been all over the newspapers because. it was a jewish community. really jewish community. it really wasn't . is it jewish community. it really wasn't. is it is it a misunderstanding? is it because that this has been interpreted as with the as something to do with the israel in israel ? israel the situation in israel? this is seen as a political thing rather than a discrimination against people . discrimination against people. they and might it they are jewish. and might it be that kind misunderstanding ? that kind misunderstanding? that's one side of it. yes a lot of people do not realise how

these things affect the jewish community. i mean they just hate israel and israel has always found in their eyes regardless of what the situation is . and of what the situation is. and then you've got people like gary tweeting how, you know, gary neville sorry, gary lineker, what you have about that what you have about it that a palestinian died who actually turned out to be a hamas you these things don't seem to happen to any of the community. do you think that the celebrities that are involved in the qatari world cup and the footballers we, should they have been raising awareness , these been raising awareness, these kinds of things? i mean, there have been lots of about you know, whether it's right for footballers get footballers to even get involved, of involved, these kinds of politics. think is politics. but do you think it is a kind part of the a kind of part of the responsibility that if you're going to go to a country like qatar there are these qatar where there are these problems, awareness problems, you raise awareness of them. it's not them. yeah, i mean, it's not it's like what's written in it's not like what's written in olympics, so to speak , where, olympics, so to speak, where, you know, if you speak about one, you got to speak about the other. there absolute other. but there was absolute silence it came to any silence when it came to any issues israelis and

issues affecting israelis and jews qatar and indeed , i've jews on qatar and indeed, i've been wanting to see people constantly talking about other issues, but when news or videos of , jewish issues started to of, jewish issues started to spread was silence from these people. they they should have mentioned it just in the same way. they mentioned everything else, just didn't happen. else, but it just didn't happen. but that's interesting it that they're that if they they're assuming that if they mention that they might be seen as i don't know, the as attacking i don't know, the qatari sensibilities. they didn't these didn't feel that way about these other were very other issues they were very vocal it. but just want vocal about it. but i just want to whether you think it is to know whether you think it is the responsibility of people who are sports are there, after to all, sports to raising all about to be raising at all about political issues or should they have of or ? have just stayed out of it or? maybe. should they not have gone there to begin with . erm i think there to begin with. erm i think simon always says something on talksport , he always says , he talksport, he always says, he doesn't want his football to be politics, a side of football, he always wants it to be football about football. and that's how it should have been. the issues are talked about for years leading up to the world cup. it was going change

was never going to change anything. who's watched anything. anyone who's watched the netflix the fifa documentary on netflix will know it was never going to change. boycotting it would change. i'm boycotting it would have done nothing, to be honest. it would just punish the it would have just punish the players actually players rather than actually deaung players rather than actually dealing with the issues in qatar. nothing would have changed. there. but were changed. goes on there. but were you surprised, given that fifa had that they going to had said that they were going to support jewish and support the jewish fans and the jewish journalists make jewish journalists and to make provisions that you provisions for them that you ended with these of ended up with these videos of anti—semitic ? did they did that anti—semitic? did they did that surprise you ? did you think this surprise you? did you think this was inevitable in way, it was inevitable in a way, it surprised at first because i really didn't click the with it being in qatar , there would be being in qatar, there would be that kind of policy and solidarity, which is fine, not a problem. but i didn't think it would take the form. it take and it very quickly took that to be honest . i'm it very quickly took that to be honest. i'm not it very quickly took that to be honest . i'm not surprised it very quickly took that to be honest. i'm not surprised fifa did nothing about it because it's fifa . be honest. fifa do it's fifa. be honest. fifa do nothing about anything that really matters . well, adam, really matters. well, adam, thank you so much for joining really matters. well, adam, thank you so much forjoining me tonight. really, really appreciate that. i don't know . appreciate that. i don't know. well, thank you for joining

appreciate that. i don't know. well, thank you forjoining me well, thank you for joining me this evening. i will be back again tomorrow from 9 pm. for now, though , it's time for now, though, it's time for headliners . hello, now, though, it's time for headliners. hello, i'm aidan mcgivern from the metal face. the rest of the year looks interesting as far as temperature contrasts are concerned. cold in the far north elsewhere. but the common theme is that we'll see rain many places that rain courtesy of an area of low pressure moving away from northern scotland but bringing back some wet weather. the south pushing southern parts of the uk as we go into friday. the rain on and off at first, more persistent and heavier later . meanwhile for scotland later. meanwhile for scotland and northern ireland , it's and northern ireland, it's showers rather than rain for the far north cold air in place . so far north cold air in place. so it's snow which is more likely, especially over the hills with some icy patches that lower levels minus six celsius possible , some sheltered parts possible, some sheltered parts of central scotland , especially of central scotland, especially over any snow cover . but over any snow cover. but elsewhere it's very mild, especially in south, albeit with some wet on its way for

saturday. wet weather pushing north and again, some heavy persistent at times, especially for south wales and parts of england could be some issues on the road because of that rain and the strong winds driving wet weather in so an unsettled day in all 13 or 14 celsius the afternoon high rises skies for much of scotland especially north of the central belt where it stays clear into new year's eve evening. but of rain moves up into southern scotland, northern ireland northern england for . northern ireland northern england for. the celebrations and that turns to snow during the early hours of this day across central scotland further south that dries up for new year's eve evening and there'll be some showers following by the early hours, but also a strengthening wind gales right in the southwestern shores for the first day of 2023. further showers to come at times and will persistent rain and snow affecting central scotland. but that peters out later after another covering of the grampians and the highlands a

dner grampians and the highlands a drier day for many of us on monday. further spells of wind and rain on tuesday and into .

good evening. i'm tatiana sanchez. good evening. i'm tatiana sanchez . the gb newsroom the sanchez. the gb newsroom the government has confirmed anyone travelling directly from china to the uk from the 5th of january must show negative covid test before departure. health secretary steve barclay described the temporary measures as a balanced and precautionary approach. it amid concerns about surging numbers in china following easing of restrictions there . countries including there. countries including france the us and india, have implemented similar rules. police have named a man there urgently trying to following