at 6 pm. that means it's time for james and c0 without michelle, of course, but with me emily carver. so tonight the government and opposition are scratching their heads on to how get the oval office back into work. one way to boost the economy, of course, but i'm asking, has the workplace actually become a little bit of actually become a little bit of a hostile place for older people? we've got h.r. departments having a field day imposing things like unconscious bias training, awareness of micro aggressions, diversity quotas . is it actually enough to

quotas. is it actually enough to put people off going back to work altogether ? could it be work altogether? could it be that this is actually one of the reasons there are 150,000 fewer older workers back in the labour market than before the pandemic ? or you could argue it's the old fashioned reasons, like pension caps, caring for elderly relatives, ill health, ill health. tell me your thoughts. i certainly know people who have actually been put off by oppressive groupthink in some workplaces. admittedly myself, too. so i'd like to know whether you've been put off as well or, you've been put off as well or, you know, someone who has also tonight, especially snuck a little bit in. reports say some senior tories are worried they haven't got the slick operator they bargained for. instead maybe the conservative version of it , maybe the conservative version of it, miliband. think back to that break and sandwich moment. is rishi a bit cringe or should we be even be judging the leader of the country on how smooth he is in interviews? perhaps there are more important things. and i want to get your reaction to the bbc's latest new podcast. it's all about former isis bride

shamima begum . believe it or shamima begum. believe it or not, i personally find the title i'm not a monster very uncomfortable indeed . i can't uncomfortable indeed. i can't quite imagine the bbc giving a similar platform to a white nationalist terrorist. and i worry that rather than a robust pubuc worry that rather than a robust public interest investigation , public interest investigation, this is just providing material for those who want her back in this country for one reason or another. and finally , rulers are another. and finally, rulers are warning that the cost of a pint could rise t 0 £10. is it time to could rise to £10. is it time to cap the price of beer? it's not actually that far fetched an idea, is it? we've cut the price of energy. we're capping the price of social care. what do you think needs to be done to save the great british pub? all of come tonight on dewbs of that to come tonight on dewbs & co me. emily carver. & co with me. emily carver. i will, course, be introducing will, of course, be introducing my wonderful panel in just one moment. but let's the moment. but first, let's get the latest headlines . emily, latest news headlines. emily, thank you and good evening to you.the thank you and good evening to you. the top story tonight on gb news nhs waiting times and the

threat of more strikes dominated the first pmqs of the year , with the first pmqs of the year, with the first pmqs of the year, with the labour party claiming the government has gone from clapping the nurses to sacking the nurses. the prime minister quizzed the opposition leader on why he wasn't supporting the government's proposed minimum safety legislation, which seeks to ensure a minimum standard of service by key workers during strike action . sir keir starmer strike action. sir keir starmer responded by saying that if rishi sunak had negotiated with nhs workers earlier , they nhs workers earlier, they wouldn't be on strike in the first place. that comes as up to 25,000 ambulance workers across england and wales are striking today. overpay mr. sunak says minimum service levels for key services shouldn't be controversial . right now people controversial. right now people not knowing whether when they call 999 they will get the treatment that they need . now, treatment that they need. now, mr. speaker , enough in australia mr. speaker, enough in australia , here in australia and canada and the us, they ban strikes on blue light services. we're not

doing that. all we're saying is that then these emergency services patients should be able to rely on a basic level of life saving care . why is he against saving care. why is he against that , mr. saving care. why is he against that, mr. speaker ? well, the that, mr. speaker? well, the labour leader, sir keir starmer, responded to that by saying the prime minister was full of empty promises. it's not promising that people will get to see a doctor in a few days like they take on the labour. he's not promising that cancer patients would get urgent treatment as i did under labour. he's not even promising an nhs that puts patients first like it did underlay ber. no, he's promising that the one day, although we can't say when the record high waiting list will stop growing . waiting list will stop growing. i see. after 13 years in government, what does it say? but the best they can offer is that at some point they might stop making things worse . now stop making things worse. now the conservative mp andrew brittain has had the whip removed following his criticism of the covid vaccine after he

shared a tweet comparing its after effects on cardiac health with the holocaust . the chief with the holocaust. the chief whip, simon hart , said mr. whip, simon hart, said mr. bridgen had crossed a line, causing great offence in the process. he also said misinformation about the vaccine causes harm and cost lives. the prime minister said the comments were utterly unacceptable . i were utterly unacceptable. i join with my rival friend in completely condemning those types of comments that we saw this morning in the stronger, strongest possible terms. obviously it is utterly unacceptable to make linkages and use language like that and i'm determined that the scourge of anti—semitism is eradicated. it has absolutely no place in our society . and i know that the our society. and i know that the previous few years have been challenging for the jewish community, and i never want them to experience anything like that ever again . while a news away ever again. while a news away from parliament, a man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after shooting of a 26 year after the shooting of a 26 year old woman on christmas eve, elle edwards was killed at a pub in wallasey while out with friends but was not believed to be the

intended of the attack in intended target of the attack in which men were also hurt. which four men were also hurt. merseyside police confirmed a 22 year old man from wirral was arrested following enquiries in mid—wales . a 23 year old woman mid—wales. a 23 year old woman has also been arrested on suspicion of assisting an offender, bringing the total number of arrests in connection with case to five. the prime with the case to five. the prime minister and his japanese counterpart have signed a major defence agreement in a ceremony at the tower of london. the treaty allows the uk and japan to deploy forces into each other's countries. it makes the uk the first european country to have mutual military access with japan as part of a foreign policy tilt towards the indo—pacific region, against a potential threat from china. the government is calling it the most significant defence agreement between london and tokyo in more than a century. agreement between london and tokyo in more than a century . a tokyo in more than a century. a fatal accident inquiry has found a number of defects in the running of a luxury hotel contributed to a deadly fire. the cameron house hotel in

western barton in scotland caught fire in december 2017 after a night, porter left a bag full of embers and ashes from a fireplace in a cupboard full of combustibles . hotel guests simon combustibles. hotel guests simon midgley and his partner, richard dyson, died in the blaze. the inquiry found sensible precautions on the disposal of ashes could have stopped the fire from breaking out and has called on other hotels to have up to date fire procedures in place . the royal mail says it's place. the royal mail says it's experiencing a severe disruption to its international export services after a cyber incident. the company says they're unable to send letters and parcels overseas at the moment. they addedit overseas at the moment. they added it could cause issues for items already shipped for export . domestic deliveries are said to be largely unaffected. they're asking customers to temporarily stop sending items through while they work to resolve the issue and flights in the us are beginning to resume after a mass computer outage forced all aircraft to be

temporarily grounded. over 4000 flights were delayed and more than 600 were cancelled due to the failure. the federal aviation administration says its system, which alerts pilots about essential information at airports, wasn't updating . the airports, wasn't updating. the white house says there's currently no evidence of a cyber attack , but president joe biden attack, but president joe biden has ordered an investigation . has ordered an investigation. that's your news. you're up to date on tv, online and dab+ radio with gb news. back now to dewbs& co with emily carver . dewbs& co with emily carver. thank you, polly. yes welcome to dewbs& co with me, emily carver. now i will introduce my wonderful panel. we have ben habib, former brexit party mep, of course, on the ceo of first property group and political commentator sir joe phillips. they offer formidable power. i remember the last time i was on

this panel, there was no there was a bit of a ding dong, but it's good. that's what we want. and i can tell you last week, michelle nearly fell out with ben more than me. really ben far more than me. really yes. what you say? because i yes. what did you say? because i wouldn't her a job. virgil wouldn't give her a job. virgil so i said, you give me your word. well, what did you get in your gcse maths ? well, a start your gcse maths? well, a start it. well, there you go . you've it. well, there you go. you've got a job. teachers over here michelle always gets lots of comments, lots of commentary over what she chooses to wear to present this show . over what she chooses to wear to present this show. i'm sure you've heard it before, matthew says, i look like a tangerine and i can't get away without some outfit feedback because michelle receives it every single evening. well, thank you, matthew . i do look a bit like a matthew. i do look a bit like a tangerine, but jo said she liked my shirt so that was mixed reviews and mixed reviews on the clothing. anyway, we'll get stuck into what matters. i want to know thoughts on all of to know your thoughts on all of our topics this evening, so our main topics this evening, so please get in touch me. please do get in touch with me. gb views at gbnews.uk. i'm asking, the workplace become

asking, has the workplace become asking, has the workplace become a bit of a hostile place for older workers, particularly those over 50? now there's a lot of workplaces where unconscious bias training has become all but mandatory . after black lives mandatory. after black lives matter , there was huge amounts matter, there was huge amounts of discussion about white privilege having to accept that you might be racist by virtue of the fact that you're white. there's many diversity quotas. i don't know if you've had a look at the civil service application process. for example, there are more boxes to tick than one could count. really there's huge amounts of groupthink, i would argue, in some businesses and within the public sector as well. so i'm going to be asking you whether you've experienced that, whether you know anyone who doesn't want to go back into the workplace actually, because it's just got a little bit too woke, i guess is the word for it and that it might be a little bit hostile actually for them as an older person . and i'll go to an older person. and i'll go to you on this . do you think that

you on this. do you think that i'm talking rubbish or do you think there's something in this? no, i mean, you're certainly not talking is talking rubbish there is something environmental. something called environmental. social , that social and governance, esg, that companies now pretty much across the board have to adhere to if they wish to get institutional shareholders or or loans made to them. and esg effectively is the corporate equivalent . you might corporate equivalent. you might regard it . corporate equivalent. you might regard it. i've corporate equivalent. you might regard it . i've got to be regard it. i've got to be careful because i've got shareholders and lenders as well. but i'm sorry to put you in an awkward , but esg is in an awkward, but esg is effectively the corporate equivalent of work. it requires companies for the first time ever really to be looking after more than their shareholder elders, employees and their creditors, which are unique obugafions creditors, which are unique obligations as an employer. all of a sudden you have to worry about the communities in which you operate are putting money and you know , having a patrician and you know, having a patrician sort of attitude to the communities in which you operate , making sure that your policies and what you do as a company is

environmentally friendly. and then, of course, making sure on then, of course, making sure on the side that you've the governance side that you've got appropriate number of got the appropriate number of women , ethnic minorities, women, ethnic minorities, etc, on board of directors. and on the board of directors. and all of this is a burden on business because every regulation creates a need to comply. and through compliance comes additional cost and so as an employer and as a shareholder in a business, i can see distractions, but i don't think it's a huge burden on over 50 per say, you know, over 50 years. i think we come from a we come from a slightly more robust era when you just kind of bit your lower lip and got on with life. so if someone tells you to do something like learn about critical race theory, for example, that you may think is irrelevant, you'll do it anyway, but you know, can get on but you know, they can get on with it. is a good with it. but is that a good thing? joe that older people who may disagree approve of what they've told do by h.r. they've been told to do by h.r. departments should just suck it up and get on with it. i'd slightly take offence at the

idea that older people are this homogenous group. yes. who are incapable of dealing with anything that isn't stuck in the rut of where they want to live in the back in the 1960s or 19505, in the back in the 1960s or 1950s, there are many people who work way into their fifties, sixties and seventies and beyond.i sixties and seventies and beyond. i think the people that we're probably looking at here are people who have maybe been out of the work for a bit. and i think one of the problems for people applying for work, i mean, it's fine. you can ask ben . he's just given you a job. you'll find if you . but, you you'll find if you. but, you know, joking aside, nowadays , know, joking aside, nowadays, even if you want to apply for a job with a supermarket or a fast food outlet, you don't just go in and see the manager. you have to do it online. and so for people who've been out of the workplace and have been out of that computerised system , i that computerised system, i think that's quite offputting . think that's quite offputting. but it's interesting you say that. sorry to interrupt, but lesley touch . i lesley has been in touch. i

think get this up on the think i can get this up on the screen . maybe anyway, she says, screen. maybe anyway, she says, how to older people find jobs many of us cannot negotiate. searching for online vacancy days and jobcentres only help those in receipt of benefits. well i don't know about the job centre thing. i don't think that's necessarily true, but i do think this online in process and i think when you get into certain levels of work , perhaps certain levels of work, perhaps further up the sort of corporate structure , you're basically structure, you're basically sifted by algorithm. yes. so if you're not if your answers aren't quite right and they're not or you're not quick enough or something like that, you're going to be at a disadvantage. this is the sort of thing that actually people's actually breaks down people's confidence . and you have a confidence. and then you have a thing which i know if you thing which i don't know if you do in your company, but do it in your company, ben, but it's commonplace in many it's quite commonplace in many organised your organised nations that your potential or colleagues who in many cases might be younger than you are, then the people who will decide whether or not you're suitable. now that's why

we come back to the idea that all old people are useless past. it might be problematic. so if you've got those people who've got that mindset interviewing people, you know, i think i think i think there is i think it is fair to say that there is an element of ageism. and i do not wish to, but, you know, put absolutely everyone in the over fifties into some kind of banquet , folks that didn't want banquet, folks that didn't want to about , you a to talk about, you know, a social issue . i mean, i know social issue. i mean, i know what i'm talking, right? that, you know, a pensioner, it is the only definition description of a person based on their benefit status . you know, you don't say status. you know, you don't say pensioner judi dench or pensionerjudi dench or pensioner rod stewart is a pensioner. helen mirren, do you? but you know, it's a guarantee . but you know, it's a guarantee. have a go gran or a pension or in a car accident who's 67 or something, who might be driving a harley davidson? it's outrageous. you don't say ben ,

outrageous. you don't say ben, if it claimant who unless you're writing a newspaper. well yes exactly. but you know what i mean. but i do get what you mean. but i do get what you mean. the ageism is as bad and in the conversations i've always had with rachel, people on diversity and inclusion, diversity and inclusion, diversity and inclusion comes in many shapes. it's not just about access, but this is the problem with the diversity and inclusion is stuff because i think it's all about box ticking when it comes to gender and race and even sexual orientation now is something that you can fill in on application forms in this country for a job. but we don't seem to welcome diversity of opinion in a lot of companies and businesses. now, i'm talking from personal experience. i won't name the company i worked for, but i worked in a company as a young graduate. i felt quite ostracised, actually, by a lot of the management because they could not get their heads around why someone might, for example, vote brexit or why someone might have vague

socially conservative views on one way or another, or why someone might not buy into the unconscious bias training that sort of thing. and it was one of the main reasons why i ended up leaving the company. and i think older people might be even more affected by that because they're less be woke. yeah, less likely to be woke. yeah, they're likely woke. they're less likely to be woke. there law by the way, there is a law by the way, against sifting through employment applications based on age. that is against the law you're to be blind to age you're meant to be blind to age , but undoubtedly you know, one of the one of the issues i have with work and let me just define work . i see work is the work. i see work is the ostensible championing of minority rights at the exclusion of the majority and often to the detriment of the majority . detriment of the majority. that's how i see it. and i use the word ostensible, because often in championing these rights, they end up actually disadvantaging the group of people they're trying to promote, but i mean, i see part of the problem with woke is an inability and a lack of tolerance to take on board any

other view . you either go with other view. you either go with that particular ideology or you're somehow a right wing swivel eyed lunatic fascist , swivel eyed lunatic fascist, xenophobic, racist, you swivel eyed lunatic fascist, xenophobic, racist , you know, xenophobic, racist, you know, and you know, this goes on. i've been accused of all of that , and been accused of all of that, and none of which is true, of course, so used . but it isn't. course, so used. but it isn't. and so i think there is that issue. but, you know, getting people back into work at the age of 50, i think there are many greater problems at play, mostly economic ones, which are driving plus 50 people over the age of 50 are the workplace. part of it is they've had a good run over the last 40 years with asset values going up so can values going up so they can afford to retire early. part of it pandemic have it is pandemic may have accelerated process . enjoy accelerated the process. enjoy that. and they will have, you know, if you're in your sort of between 50 and 60, and particularly if you're a woman, you are what has been called the sandwich generation. you are probably having to help out with

grandchildren and you are almost certainly having to deal with parents older relatives in parents or older relatives in care. so, you know, the care pressures of having responsibility for caring responsibilities become much greater. so you know, what job are you looking for? you want to be as flexible and maybe more so than a young parent without the protection. this, of course , protection. this, of course, which is afforded on maternity and paternity you so both the labour party the reason why we're talking about this is because firstly allison pearson wrote a column in the telegraph where she says that workplaces work well. i have my own anecdotes and other people do, including relatives of mine who have decided not to go back into the workplace for reasons including what the workplace is not like in a cultural way. so i do think the point does stand , do think the point does stand, but also the labour party and the conservatives of course are looking at ways in which they can try and get people back into the workplace, the workplace, of course, that's great for the economy their view and they economy in their view and they want income . but how

want to more tax income. but how on should go about on earth should they go about doing would the one doing it? what would the one thing over fifties thing well, i mean, over fifties is a particular category of people, labour market people, but the labour market is broken. across age broken. right across all age groups. and real fundamental groups. and the real fundamental the problem, by way the biggest problem, by the way , united faces is , the united kingdom faces is the problem i'm about to describe , which is it describe, which is that it doesn't pay to work anymore. you know, the median wage in the united kingdom is £30,000 and the net after tax take home pay with the net after tax take home pay wit the net after tax take home pay wit h £30,000 a the net after tax take home pay wit h £30,000 a year is roughly with £30,000 a year is roughly the maximum you can get on universal credit. so there has to be a gap between what you can get on benefits and what you get if you work in order to get people to work, it's economically daft to think you get people back into the workplace if they're better off not working, or if the if the gap is marginal and effectively what's happened over the last 25 years. i mean, i take 13 years without wishing to nail the conservatives completely on it. but what's happened over the last 13 years is that we've

become a kind of third world economy . we haven't innovated , economy. we haven't innovated, we haven't become more productive . and as a result, productive. and as a result, we've taken lots of immigration on the population in the united kingdom has gone up and the ability to generate a more productive, higher growth economic model has disappeared. and we're relying ever increasingly on cheap labour. so essentially in terms of job opportunities for over 50, are you saying that there is simply fewer? i'm saying that the problem of just described is right across the age groups with the over fifties . there are the over fifties. there are particular reasons why the over fifties fall out of the workplace. one of them is, i think, because they've saved a bit of money. the other is that the pension laws that keep being tweaked, it makes it an unnecessary fee for them. you know, when you get up towards 60, you want to start saving more on your pension, but actually tax you're actually tax wise you're penalised cap. penalised for that time cap. don't have a lifetime cap? don't you have a lifetime cap? and there's there's a lack of and there's a there's a lack of offset who been treated offset who have been treated

appallingly. who appallingly. so many women who thought they would pension thought they would get a pension at been cut out at 60. yeah, i've been cut out of all their and seeing of it all their lives and seeing their pension fade away. so we've got multitude of reasons we've got a multitude of reasons , mostly to do with tax . so when , mostly to do with tax. so when rishi sunak says, you know , rishi sunak says, you know, let's not become just the tax cutting country and rely on cutting country and rely on cutting taxes for it to grow . cutting taxes for it to grow. and let's look at innovation. but taxation, government taxation policy is fundamentally important when it comes to the labour market and it comes to growth in businesses. and there's so many topsy turvy bad incentives at the top everywhere , so many incentives not to work over time , not to do extra over time, not to do extra hours, not to pick up extra work with our benefit system as well. it really is a mess. if there was one thing i would like the government to do, it would be to reform our tax system and just make simpler and just take make it simpler and just take out those disincentives. out some of those disincentives. but think there's an but i do think there's an emotional argument too. emotional argument here, too. i was reading me find it. was just reading let me find it. someone said , and can't find someone said, and i can't find it but they said that once it now, but they said that once you're become you're over 50, you become invisible in workplace. and invisible in the workplace. and

i there is quite a lot of i think there is quite a lot of that, particularly from middle aged heard oh, aged women. i've heard this, oh, you invisible. why would you become invisible. why would they compared they take me on as compared to someone else? necessary to someone else? necessary to someone younger? so what about the people the evidence? and people lose confidence, particularly if they've out of the they've been out of the workplace whatever reason , workplace for whatever reason, and particularly if they've got, you know, they're worried about asking time off because their mothers and she's in mothers had a fall and she's in a care home or they've got to look the grandchildren are look after the grandchildren are used many ago for used to work many years ago for a well known company that a very well known company that specialises for specialises in products for people age. and people over a certain age. and i was there web editor and the first thing that they asked me to write about was to tell people how to clean their car dunng people how to clean their car during the winter. i pointed out that if these people had got to the age, at which point they were eligible for all these fantastic special offers, the chances they'd clean their chances were they'd clean their car some winters and we car during some winters and we need stop patronising people. need to stop patronising people. 50 not old. 60 is not old. we're all work into our sixties and seventies and it's a terrible thing. it is a two way thing and

i think i personally love working with people of all ages. i think you learn so much from one another. i've learnt, i've learnt a tremendous amount from older people in my work life, but i do think some young people do dismiss the views of older people for one reason or another. and i do think woke does unfortunately have a lot to does unfortunately have a lot to do with it. now i'm going to try and go to some views now we have and go to some views now we have a yes , this was elizabeth said. a yes, this was elizabeth said. she said, good luck getting into the workplace if you're over 50, you just become invisible. and if you have a disability as well, you might as well forget it. i think that's yeah , it's it. i think that's yeah, it's a sad, sad truth in some sectors. anyway, margaret says, why isn't it just the best person for the job? and then you don't have to be worried about all this nonsense. i presumably you're talking about margaret. how how people have chosen . oh, she's people have chosen. oh, she's absolutely right. everything should be based on meritocracy and we should be blind to everything else . the job has got

everything else. the job has got to , you know , align with to, you know, align with whatever organisations , mission whatever organisations, mission statements, use that dreadful phrase or, you know, i mean, what did you call? but i think a lot of people, i think esg, environmental, social, i think there's a lot of people who pretend, oh, yes, i signed up to, you know, all of this green stuff and social justice stuff and this they're and actually this they're thinking load thinking what a load of old nonsense they home and nonsense when they get home and speak their wife or husband, speak to their wife or husband, partner, children, whatever. i do that is the case. a lot do think that is the case. a lot of people, a lot of people have to bite their tongue. a lot in the workplace. but not here at gb news, we are one of gb news, because we are one of the homes of free speech in this country. so coming up, does the prime have an image prime minister have an image problem? senior tories are reportedly mulling , mulling over reportedly mulling, mulling over whether he's the slick performer they thought he was or if he's they thought he was or if he's the tories version of ed miliband. we'll get stuck into that after the .

break we've been noticing that actually a lot of women are watching this evening . we've got watching this evening. we've got lots of emails and tweets and things coming in from women. so that's great. good stuff. thank you for tuning in and letting us know your thoughts. we've had one though. who of one from trevor, though. who of course is a man hi. and i am course is a man i. hi. and i am 64 years old and have only been back to the office a handful of times 2020. right times since march 2020. right now our office is also closed owing to high energy , presuming owing to high energy, presuming high, presumably high energy costs is what you mean. the. well, that's the thing. a lot of the offices are just closed. and that's one of the reasons why i think a third or of responding it's anyway in the latest os stats on people returning back to work say that a third of older people looking for older people are looking for flexible hours or at least that's one of the most important factors looking factors that they're looking for. think that goes to for. and i think that goes to jo's as caring

jo's point as well. caring responsibilities is also still aduu responsibilities is also still adult children can be quite demanding some older people demanding on some older people as i mean, there's many, as well. i mean, there's many, many factors. david says the workplace has seemingly become heavily politicised, and i do think it's true but is right. it is sort of it it is. think it's true but is right. it is sort of it it is . i mean, is sort of it it is. i mean, it's not just the public sector, it's not just the public sector, it's companies, big corporates, even smaller businesses as well, although they are less touched by it . it's although they are less touched by it. it's all about, if it may, and if it makes us behave better to each other, and if people have to be cajoled into it because of the law, then that tells you more about the people who think that being homophobic, racist or misogynist is just banter . it's not about that. racist or misogynist is just banter. it's not about that. but there's an awful lot of people out there, emily, who go, oh, i didn't mean it. it was just a bit of banter itself. after the black lives matter stuff kicked off, a lot of people were talking about racism in this country . what happened was that country. what happened was that you then had workplaces hiring race experts or race relations experts to come in and

essentially preach to and reassure you, kate, people in companies and it was tiresome, but that that is it is damaging to the that is that a grave train of so—called expert indulged it. of course they did because they're frightened and there was a you know a few years ago if corporate social responsibility and everybody signed up to some, you know , signed up to some, you know, poor hapless pr or a trainee got the job. they did some work with a local youth club. they tick the box on what they do in the community totally meaningless. yeah, but every company , when yeah, but every company, when we've talked about this on this program before, you know, they want be seen to have green want to be seen to have green credentials, to be part you credentials, to be part of, you know, good , kind, gentle, know, a good, kind, gentle, equal world. and they don't know how to do it because they don't . you know, there are a few companies that i think probably start off with the right idea and the right ethos. but what as they get bigger, as they get taken over, i think is a bigger they get more actually, they get more woke. actually, they get more woke. actually, they because they more they do, because they have more

money spend on this. and then money to spend on this. and then they become they all departments become absolutely enormous . but will absolutely enormous. but i will say my relatives quit the say one of my relatives quit the teaching profession for a few years, was thinking about going back into it, but actually thought, you on balance, thought, you know, on balance, it's going be tedious it's just going to be so tedious with the groupthink . there with all the groupthink. there is a left wing bias in is very much a left wing bias in schools . and, you know , on schools. and, you know, on balance, actually, i'm not sure ifancy balance, actually, i'm not sure i fancy that, actually. anyway we're going to have to move on to a different topic. very different. this is rishi sunak. so of course , when he took over so of course, when he took over as prime minister, many conservatives believed they were getting performer getting a competent performer and suck getting a competent performer and slick operator . getting a competent performer and slick operator. i'm not and a slick operator. i'm not sure how many he was got compared to truss. well, compared to liz truss. well, he's liz truss, he uses brylcreem so i think he must be some definition of issues . but some definition of issues. but reports now suggest summary thinking that analysis with comparison is being drawn between the prime minister and horror of horrors as miliband. so is the pm just a bit naff fed ? well, i think he is. i look at

his suits and i think for all that money is that the best suit you could get? you know, his trousers are too short for him. oh, you'll mean what the hell? they just two short. you see all his socks every time he takes a step and that jackets far too step and is that jackets far too tight? short. his tight? it's far too short. his trousers is a short. he doesn't look like a statesman. he looks like a six former. and he's got these. and i just ask viewers at home, please ben habib. home, please rate ben habib. well, i mean, this is a very old fashioned over 50 suit. forgive me , but rishi sunak to me just me, but rishi sunak to me just looks like a six former and his delivery . this is more important delivery. this is more important point not his speaking manner unless he's being challenged, which i'll come to, but unless he's being challenged, if he's formally speaking, he's like a sixth form debater. he's wooden, it's all autocue . he can't it's all autocue. he can't deliver the autocue with the correct intonation. and i think my first presenting gig, if you're fantastic, you're fantastic , and you've got a nice fantastic, and you've got a nice star in your smart oh, good lord . but you know , if you're going

. but you know, if you're going to win an election and i know the conservative party is fretting about this terribly as far as you know, when it comes to rishi sunak, if you're going to rishi sunak, if you're going to win an election, you need to be able to get up on the podium and speak without notes from the heart and convince people that you believe in what you're preaching. it's no , he's very preaching. it's no, he's very good.i preaching. it's no, he's very good. i was going to say he's very good when comes to very good when it comes to combat. he was good pmqs combat. yes, he was good in pmqs today. good in pmqs. today. he was good in pmqs. he was combat live. i'm not was combat live. but i'm not sure whether his combat style is all that encouraging . you know, all that encouraging. you know, you look at look at the front bench.i you look at look at the front bench. i don't know if you watch pmqs today clips of it, but you know that his front bench was stony faced . they were not stony faced. they were not behind the prime minister you know, when you had boris johnson . i was i was a vocal critic of bofis . i was i was a vocal critic of boris johnson. when boris johnson gets up to speak in any forum , everyone is listening, forum, everyone is listening, everyone's animated. certainly his front benches and you didn't get that with the conservative

parliamentary party today. jo has he just not got it? whatever it is? i think, you know , there it is? i think, you know, there are two things here. one is that i think, you know, do we want charisma over competence? and i think having seen johnson and trump, the answer is absolutely charisma and competence. what charisma and competence. what charisma i know i have i know i know that. yeah, i know . and know that. yeah, i know. and guess what? we're both over 50. good lord. give us a job. but i say, you know, if you think , you say, you know, if you think, you know , johnson is great, great know, johnson is great, great hero is churchill . well, then he hero is churchill. well, then he should be looking well. the conservative party should be looking at keir starmer, who could well be the clement attlee , who is always voted and rated by constitutional historians and people like peter hennessy as the best prime minister this country's ever had. he was the most churchill, no attlee , most churchill, no attlee, because he actually had talked about keir starmer. i know . my

about keir starmer. i know. my point is that you had this great, you know, churchill with the cigars and the drinking and the cigars and the drinking and the babygro boiler suit thing. and then, you , clement attlee, and then, you, clement attlee, who was as dishwater , but he who was as dishwater, but he transformed britain . but they transformed britain. but they could never have been in attlee without churchill. possibly not. they would have been and they could be a starmer afterjohnson and truss what the conservative party i think are dealing with is the fact that they've got somebody who looks like, you know, he looks as though he runs a chain of estate agents. well, apparently the we apparently this is the cycle we go through. i remember reading someone's analysis of how we choose and choose our prime ministers and usually from usually it goes from someone who's and who's a bit sumptuous and charismatic , like perhaps a bit charismatic, like perhaps a bit over the top to then someone who's very well dull. over the top to then someone who's very well dull . yeah, but who's very well dull. yeah, but you see, look a look at john major now. john major who i worked with very closely when i was at westminster working with paddy ashdown, you and paddy ashdown, you know, and absolutely charming man who never came across like that was always portrayed grey man. the grey man underpants over the

trousers , you know, that sort of trousers, you know, that sort of thing. thanks to steve bell, the great cartoon. but, you know , great cartoon. but, you know, one of the most charming, charismatic and certainly the most one of the most, if not the most one of the most, if not the most decent person who's ever beenin most decent person who's ever been in downing street. you move on quickly. but, ben, just on very quickly. but, ben, just one you think he's too one thing. do you think he's too rich be prime minister rich to be prime minister because he seems to be attacked time and time again, whether it's over the private health insurance, whether it's over the private schooling, his donations to school , what he's to his old school, what he's wearing in britain, just wearing daily in britain, just not like a prime minister to be too wealthy. no, i don't think we in britain don't like prime minister to be too wealthy like it. got it. well, he has got a disconnect , it. well, he has got a disconnect, but it. well, he has got a disconnect , but especially pithy disconnect, but especially pithy . he lacks empathy. absolutely right. and when he describes his childhood , he's desperate to try childhood, he's desperate to try and connect . childhood, he's desperate to try and connect. he childhood, he's desperate to try and connect . he should stop and connect. he should stop doing it , be and connect. he should stop doing it, be what he is. and connect. he should stop doing it, be what he is . you doing it, be what he is. you know, it's perfectly reasonable to be born to middle class parents, go to a public school, go to oxford and then stanford.

thatis go to oxford and then stanford. that is privileged, except the and then govern for the people. well, and david cameron was wealthy and privileged in one of the first things you said at the beginning was, you know, i make no apology for the privilege that i have been lucky enough to have. and was very relaxed have. and he was very relaxed about tony blair, was privileged , but there is no with sunak and it's you know, i don't think that's fair to say he has no empathy. well, it does come across he's a bit of a deer in the headlights at times. but he has definitely does have has he definitely does have those do you come into those debates. do you come into action? you if you are action? but if you if you are prime minister you are going to be whether have private be asked whether have private health care any better than you. also it was it was the whole thing about , also it was it was the whole thing about, you know, how much is a point of milk. i'm not going to tell you, because, of course, private. so what? course, he has private. so what? that's great. he's saying that's great. he's not saying move what? i'm trying move on. right what? i'm trying to get our comments on the to get our comments up on the screen doesn't seem be screen but doesn't seem to be working. never has said working. but never mind has said i'm bothered about what she i'm not bothered about what she looks like, what clothes he wears, money he's worth wears, how much money he's worth or doctor can he sort

or who is doctor is can he sort this mess out? that's the important thing. well, we don't this mess out? that's the imporif nt thing. well, we don't this mess out? that's the imporif nt th going ell, we don't this mess out? that's the imporif nt th going quitea don't this mess out? that's the imporif nt th going quite right.t know if he's going quite right. well yeah, lacking any real, you know, truss had a lot of know, liz truss had a lot of perhaps was too much but she perhaps it was too much but she seems timid . perhaps it was too much but she seems timid. he's seems to be scared, timid. he's fearing of putting a foot wrong. anyway, we will have to go to a break shortly . but coming up, is break shortly. but coming up, is it right for the bbc to dedicate an entire podcast series to interviewing former isis bride shamima bayram? it does seem a bit mad . we'll be talking about bit mad. we'll be talking about that after the break. so stay .

i'm michael portillo. join me on gb news on a sunday morning for topical discussion , debate, arts topical discussion, debate, arts and culture and sometimes even as ethical dilemmas. i don't always agree with you, michael. michael portillo sundays on gb news the people's channel, britain's news. channel yes.

welcome back to dewbs& co with me, emily carver with me until seven is of course my panel. ben on my right who's a former brexit party mep and see you a first property group and he's told me i can have a job with him if you know things didn't say when he say no that's what i'm over 50 and political commentator. i'm over 50 and political commentator . joe phillips, of commentator. joe phillips, of course, is with us this evening as well. now we're moving on to as well. now we're moving on to a well, strange one, really, on the bbc , a ten part podcast the bbc, a ten part podcast series is launched examining the life of former east bride shamima begum is little apparently provide the full account of what really happened after she ran away from london to join the terror group. but it sparked a backlash against the broadcaster who's been accused of giving her a platform . they, of giving her a platform. they, on the other hand, have called it a robust public interest investigation now. but there's no doubt will be in some people's interest to watch this . well, they'll be interested to

watch it. i mean, my view on shamima bacon is this is a woman now or 15 when she went across to the middle east who has been ruled by the supreme court, unworthy of having british nationality . so she's been nationality. so she's been through you know, the case has been right through the supreme court and whatever we feel about her personally and about the way she was a child when she left. and so whatever personal judgement is the highest court in this land has adjudicate that she is not worthy of being a british citizen at that point . i british citizen at that point. i think it does behove the national broadcaster that is paid for by the taxpayer not to be giving her a platform. but this is what to ask viewers at home whether this makes them want to tear up the bbc licence fee or whether they're actually quite interesting. i mean, this, jane, i may be in disagreement here, before you here, but we will. before you jump here, but we will. before you jump netflix want to give jump in, if netflix want to give her platform in way that her a platform in the way that they harry one, that's

they gave harry one, that's netflix's prerogative. but i think when it comes to comparison of shamima with harriet, well, there are victimhood issues with both of those countries . but, you know, those countries. but, you know, for the national broadcaster to be effectively giving a right of a right to this woman to voice her views and to somehow i only be sort of semi legitimise her just absolutely crawls at me, you know , at all cost. well, you know, at all cost. well, this is my concern that it does give her a platform and it doesn't it doesn't it does look it up honestly, doesn't it? is it up honestly, doesn't it? is it is a ten part series made by an extremely well—read , an extremely well—read, respected journalist, josh baker , who has made many, many programmes , award winning programmes, award winning programmes, award winning programmes for a variety of broadcasters. heard the first broadcasters. i heard the first episode today on radio and i thought it was fascinating eating because what he was saying interspersed with her audio takes is that actually this was quite clear. this was not a naive young girl who was

groomed. this was a very intelligent , well—organised , you intelligent, well—organised, you know, along with her friends, his name is, i'm afraid i've forgotten at the moment. but, you know, they were really prepared. they knew exactly what they were doing. now that to me is not giving her a platform and i don't see it as giving her a place to give it is using her as a story the same way that gabriel gatehouse, another extremely good journalist, went in to investigate. q and on it's like louis theroux , who made the like louis theroux, who made the terrible mistake of interviewing jemmy savile, who at the time was lauded by the bbc and an awful lot of people probably watching this programme. always a historic call. it is in many ways still alive case. well, it's a change, but it is historical because it's the story of how she got to where she is now. but why do we care how she got? well, because not because. i think it was the national broadcaster. i think no, i don't think i think it's an interesting because . an interesting story because. the we're talking the fact that we're talking about it to and fact about it to now and the fact that there be some people

that there will be some people out who say she was an out there who say she was an innocent she was innocent victim, she was groomed, didn't know what innocent victim, she was grocwasi, didn't know what innocent victim, she was grocwas doing. idn't know what innocent victim, she was grocwas doing. wet know what innocent victim, she was grocwas doing. we havew what innocent victim, she was grocwas doing. we have got1at innocent victim, she was grocwas doing. we have got other she was doing. we have got other people saying, as said, people saying, as you've said, ben she should never come back ben, she should never come back to this country. we've got other people nigel was people, as nigel nelson was saying earlier on, patrick programme, would have programme, what would have happened children had happened to her children had the three survived , they three children survived, they would have been british citizens . have ended . where would they have ended up? because you can't make under 18 stateless just because of the crimes of the parent. and i do think it's a valid examination . think it's a valid examination. and if people were willing to listen to it properly, it is not a one sided. i did listen to the first episode because i knew we were going to discuss it. thank and i found it neither probed or nor anti her. that's the point. is it working it out the facts but but it to be giving a kind of platform to woman who has been a judge and not to be worthy of british citizenship because of crime she's committed effectively against the united

kingdom by a national broadcaster as a matter of . but broadcaster as a matter of. but it's not giving a platform to her. it's giving a platform to a journalist does it not include many interviews with her? yes, of course. it's giving her, you know, the have her grievances and what she thinks in the context of a journalistic glee. well, i will probably listen to it all, because i do actually find it very interesting, but i do worry that these sort of things must have an agenda and it may skew opinion more. more. i mean , emily, i think i think i mean, emily, i think i think you know, i think you're underestimating and i think you're being extremely dismissed of extremely good journal is that the caption for the show is i'm not a well that's a quote offensive head quote but but i mean that's what they're promoting so that's what they should they need. what they're saying is you don't have to listen to it. i'm sure many people will have made their minds up. they think it's disgraceful. it's a platform for her. well, it's not at least didn't get any money for it. i mean, the taxpayer, will they

next doing documentary on next be doing a documentary on jihadi john. he used to make a habit of cutting people's heads off. accusation has off. well, one accusation has been where was been that, you know, where was the part podcast series the ten part podcast series about grooming gangs? for about the grooming gangs? for example, could back to . example, you could go back to. jenny what what to jenny saw choices. what what to do. you know what were the bbc and other broadcasters who were very happy to keep promoting and promoting jemmy savile, even though allegations were around and were being dismissed and other people , you know, deejays other people, you know, deejays and other people and pop stars who have subsequently been found who have subsequently been found who were not, you know , their who were not, you know, their victims were not believed at the time , you know, okay. you it's time, you know, okay. you it's been all the way up to the supreme court. this woman has not think that makes any difference. what any disrespect, grotesque. but i must say, i said we're outraged that our licence money is being used to give this terrible listen to the programme . listen to the programme. listen to the programme. listen to the programme. maybe graham would listen to the programme and listen to the programme and listen to the programme and listen to it. come from a journalist interview. got to go

to the break. coming up, we've had a cat for energy prices. yes, we could have a cap on the cost of social care. is it time for a cap on the price of the humble british pint? let me know what you think .

it's not. yes. welcome back to dewbs& co with me, emily carver. now we've had a few comments about that bbc podcast series on shamima begum . mark says he shamima begum. mark says he takes a pretty liberal approach. your choice or don't watch it . your choice or don't watch it. it's easy to cancel your licence fee. good point . but mark does fee. good point. but mark does face, quite an interesting question here. joe he says what your guest support a programme on tommy robinson and if not she's a hypocrite . oh of course she's a hypocrite. oh of course i would if it was done to the same journalistic rigour well,

it seems to be a fatwah on him. i don't think he'd be given any airtime. i think the question i have just answered, i think using words like fatwa, actually, when you think of attacks on people like salman rushdie, which nearly cost him his life and it certainly cost him, that was a poor choice. so it was poor choice of words. and that's sort of thing that that's the sort of thing that i think you know, but of think is, you know, but of course, i think anybody who is a controversial figure or anybody who of who creates this level of discussion is a valid subject and any decent journalist and he won't, you know, just barker baker will not have just gone, oh, i'm just going off to interview this one. it will have gone through so many. and i do think i feel really strongly about this as a journalist, you know, the headlines of newspaper articles which story came articles from which story came do always reflect the actual story. it is not a platform for her. it is an interview with her, a series of interviews. i've to it all. well, i have listened to the first bit so we'll have to see. and it is

radio so you can tell me you know why do you think i'm erring on the side of mark? i think it was mark and if you don't like it, don't listen to it. because i do think the bbc does need to be a broad church, but i would also question some of that editorial but we shall editorial choices. but we shall see. but we're going to be moving to our final topic. moving on to our final topic. but it's an important one. but it's also an important one. we the government we know the government support for energy costs is for businesses, energy costs is coming to an end april brewis coming to an end in april brewis and hospitality industry are and the hospitality industry are warning that ending support warning that ending the support could price of a pint could see the price of a pint rise to i've seen elsewhere rise to £10. i've seen elsewhere . some people are saying it could rise to £25 or perhaps that's only in mayfair or something. anyway there's a loneliness. loneliness epidemic and pubs are going out of business. should the government step in all those things linked? is it time for a price cap on the cost of a pint? is it time for a price cap on the cost of a pint ? absolutely the cost of a pint? absolutely not. the level of state intervention we've i call the state now not a nanny state, but a witness . this would be taking a witness. this would be taking it to new levels of sweating.

you know, it wouldn't be milk, it would be a pandemic. i mean, absolutely not. it's absurd. we've interfered too much in the way the economy , the state has way the economy, the state has interfered too much in the way the economy operates. it taxes us way too much because it wants to interfere, because it has been interfering. what the state needs to do is wind its neck in deep , regulate the economy, cut deep, regulate the economy, cut taxes, let the private sector get on with it. and i can guarantee you if they did that , guarantee you if they did that, you'd be able to afford your pint because you'd have more earnings. you have more you'd you'd be paying less. the pubs would be more profitable, there'd be less regulation to them to comply with everyone would be in a better place. so don't subsidise beer , perhaps don't subsidise beer, perhaps cut taxes on beer. okay, cut taxes.i cut taxes on beer. okay, cut taxes. i thought we knew this talking point . so the emily talking point. so the emily carver something's gone terribly wrong. he didn't. even though tomorrow nigel farage will be off to . well, i agree with ben. off to. well, i agree with ben. i mean , you can't subsidise i mean, you can't subsidise everything . i do think pubs are

everything. i do think pubs are hugely important and they are the lifeblood of many communities , particularly rural communities, particularly rural communities. pubs communities. and many, many pubs have adapted , particularly have adapted, particularly dunng have adapted, particularly during they were during the pandemic. they were either that they either doing food that they would deliver people. of would deliver to people. some of them now have little grocery stores. they have newsagents, they book clubs, they have they have book clubs, they have all sorts of things . but it is all sorts of things. but it is hard, know, energy costs, hard, you know, energy costs, shortage of staff . it's a very shortage of staff. it's a very bad time of year anyway for the hospitality and industry after christmas. well, yes , you know, christmas. well, yes, you know, and i think we know pubs are going out of business, but we also know that other businesses are thriving . in fact, there was are thriving. in fact, there was an article i was reading today about a bookshop independent bookshops are on the up and. some of them are being really good. they are doing wine bars and coffee bars and having live music. perfect. well, there you go. say something to go one, go. say something to go to one, one comment go . one comment before we go. philippa, i think she might be coming up soon. what if you stop supermarkets from selling alcohol? only allowed sales from pubs off licences . well, pubs and off licences. well, there's some food for thought

anyway . we well think we've anyway. we well i think we've run of time actually. thank run out of time actually. thank you much indeed for tuning you very much indeed for tuning in episode of dewbs& co in to this episode of dewbs& co with me emily carver thank you very much indeed. to my one fan, habib and joe phillips. he always keeps me my toes . always keeps me on my toes. thank much indeed. thank you very much indeed. i think michelle will think michelle dewberry will be back evening. first back tomorrow evening. but first we've nigel farage. we've got a nigel farage. i think he is there indeed. nigel, what have you got coming up ? what have you got coming up? pint . to understand about . pint. to understand about. oh i think we've got a bit of a technical difficulty. i wasn't sure if that was mine, but anyway, we're going to have to go straight to the weather before nigel farage will hopefully reappear again. it's aidan from the met aidan mcgivern here from the met office. more winter rain on office. yet more winter rain on the way during the rest of the day and into the next few days. wettest in the south, windiest in west and scales effect in in the west and scales effect in the north in particular. later thursday . the weather staying thursday. the weather staying very unsettled moment,

very unsettled at the moment, numerous charge and it's numerous lows in charge and it's been a showery day for many. on wednesday, we're going see wednesday, we're going to see more rain arrive more prolonged rain arrive overnight and effect southern areas in particular into thursday. you can see the rain quickly arriving into northern ireland, western england, wales through night, affecting through the night, affecting southern a as southern scotland for a time as well . wettest weather there well. the wettest weather there will south wales. in will be across south wales. in the england, over the southwest of england, over hills 80 millimetres hills 60 to 80 millimetres falling to saturate to ground falling on to saturate to ground could real issues by could cause some real issues by the of the night . that's the end of the night. that's accompanied by gales 50 to 65 mile per hour wind gusts around southwestern a marked southwestern shores. a marked contrast with northern scotland , where it starts off calm, clear and frosty. first thing thursday. but we're going to see some rain here, too , on thursday some rain here, too, on thursday morning that's going to push into the colder air and we'll see some snow above 400 metres over central scotland showers replacing the rain elsewhere. quite lively showers once again, 12 or 13 celsius in the south with a blustery wind from the southwest , 6 to 7 further north

southwest, 6 to 7 further north and turning increasing windy for western scotland and in particular northern ireland as we end thursday, gales or severe gales around exposed coast here , those gales pushing into the irish sea pushing spells of rain east across the uk, followed by showers . as we start of friday. showers. as we start of friday. so friday starts frost free because of the strong wind across the country. but it's a fresh start in the south. seven or eighteen compared with the 12 and 13 will see on thursday morning. and there'll be quite a number of showers through on the breeze . the breeze becomes well breeze. the breeze becomes well , less gusty as we head into the afternoon and the skies become brighter as well . but still some brighter as well. but still some showers around then another spell of rain on saturday, clearing away by the start of . clearing away by the start of. sunday this year on gb news. we've got brand new members of the family join us across the entire united kingdom. we cover the issues that matter to you . the issues that matter to you. gb news will always stay honest , balanced and fair. we want to

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channel on the day of yet another ambulance strike, rishi sunak talks tough in the house of commons about the government's new laws. to make sure we get a minimum level of service. starmer doesn't agree. we'll debate whether the government have this one right. we'll also talk about starmer's performance and rishi's performance in particular today and later on this evening. and a party election broadcast is he really cutting the mustard with