good evening and maybe friday the 13th, but i am not supposed licious so until i show we will talk about the office for national statistics released figures on excess deaths this week excluding the pandemic. figures on excess deaths this week excluding the pandemic . the week excluding the pandemic. the figures are the worst since

1951. that's right. that's excluding the pandemic. covid deaths only make up a minority of recent deaths. that's not an opinion that's independent figures based on facts, data and analysis. so what on is going on then? i'm going to speak to dr. josh glasgow about his research being used by an online blog which made mr. andrew bridgen used in that famous tweet. and find out more about what the article was and why he wrote it. and finally, i talked to commentator and anti—racism campaigner patricia leak, and i tried to get to the bottom of what being an anti—racist actually means , all of that, actually means, all of that, maybe more coming up afternoons with own trump trump . hello with our own trump trump. hello there. i'm karen armstrong. the gb newsroom in the manchester city footballer benjamin mendy has been found not guilty of six rape charges against four young women. mendy was also found not guilty on one kind of sexual

assault. but jurors at chester crown court were unable to reach a verdict on two further counts and a retrial will take place in june. and a retrial will take place in june . labour leader sir keir june. labour leader sir keir starmer says the time for action on the northern ireland protocol is now delivering his case speech at queen's university in belfast. sir keir also promised his party will remain good. faith guarantor of the good friday agreement. he's urged the prime minister to recognise past mistakes and to resolve issues over the post—brexit trading arrangements. so i say to the prime minister , if there is a prime minister, if there is a deal to do in coming weeks, do it . whatever political cover you it. whatever political cover you need , whatever mechanisms in need, whatever mechanisms in westminster you require . if it westminster you require. if it delivers for our national interest and the people , interest and the people, northern ireland, we will support you . the time for action support you. the time for action on the protocol is now . the

on the protocol is now. the economy unexpectedly grew by 0.1% between october and november last year. despite the soaring cost of living. the office for national statistics recorded a slowed earning growth so that it was after a 2.5% increase the previous month . it increase the previous month. it says the economy was boosted by people going to pubs and restaurants to watch the world cup . a 15 year old girl died cup. a 15 year old girl died dunng cup. a 15 year old girl died during an adrenaline fuelled speedboat ride when the skipper failed to pay attention. a court has heard. emily lewis suffered unsurvivable injuries when the rigid inflatable boat had a boy at almost 37 knots in southampton. water in august 2020. another member of other passengers were seriously . passengers were seriously. michael lawrence, who was driving the boat, denies manslaughter by gross negligence . donald trump's company has been fined . donald trump's company has been fine d £13 million for a been fined £13 million for a number of tax crimes, including conspiracy , criminal fraud and conspiracy, criminal fraud and falsifying business records. the former president did not go on

trial himself and denied any knowledge that his former executives illegally evaded paying executives illegally evaded paying tax over a period of 15 years. however, the trump organisation was convicted for 17 counts of tax fraud last month. trump has described the case as a politically motivated witch hunt. his lawyers have vowed to appeal the verdict , at vowed to appeal the verdict, at least seven people have been killed in the us state of atlanta and georgia after a deadly tornado swept across the south of the country. dozens of twisters have left trail of destruction in alabama , sorry, destruction in alabama, sorry, north atlanta and georgia, destroying several homes, flipping cars and uprooting trees. tens of thousands of people were also without power in four states. us weather services say the storms have passed but strong will persist through tomorrow. tv online and dab radio . this is gb news. but dab radio. this is gb news. but now it's back to laurence fox .

now it's back to laurence fox. hello. it's nice to be back . hello. it's nice to be back. well this strange topsy turvy , well this strange topsy turvy, upside down end of disney world has thrown up a real cracker this week as the media and the regime did their utmost to socially distance the public from gathering to . take a look from gathering to. take a look at an enormous wandering around the room with the words excess deaths written on it. we 51 of 2022. so the number of excess deaths in private homes alone at nearly 40% above the five year average, which you would have thought would have raised a few eyebrows or even be spotted across the front pages of izvestia with the same amount of terrified technicolour horrors dunng terrified technicolour horrors during the dark days of the pandemic might thought pandemic, you might have thought that , but you pandemic, you might have thought that, but you would be wrong for the mainstream media tumbleweed

. where's the outrage for these lives ? where are the calls for lives? where are the calls for an investigation into as to why the excess deaths were at their highest since 1951? and it wasn't covered by the few media outlets who actually bothered to do some journal. media came up with their answer pretty quickly. it was the nhs overwhelmed and underfunded. as always , but the nhs only always, but the nhs only operates in the uk . so how do operates in the uk. so how do you explain deaths you explain the excess deaths elsewhere world? one elsewhere around the world? one might there chance might ask, is there any chance it might have been something to do the shut up racist came do with the shut up racist came the inevitable reply . and there the inevitable reply. and there you have it. they all would the ultimate in free speech suppressants and to stage right of centre. andrew bridgen mp for north—west leicestershire , who north—west leicestershire, who just wouldn't let it go . it's just wouldn't let it go. it's the vaccine he said in a 20 minute speech in the house of commons. he said the part out loud calling for an immediate stop to the vaccine rollout,

especially for children for whom the overwhelming majority covid is nothing but a mild bug. he also predicted an incoming smear campaign against him of rigorous snobbishness and upon leaving the house, he proceeded to say the house, he proceeded to say the same thing online, culminating in that tweet which appeared to set in motion project destroy bridgen. he's quoting of a prominent jewish researcher was going to be wrangled spinal to mangle until mr. bridgen was permanently cast as the anti—semite. he picture everyone who we suspect actually was and it all began with that bastion of truth uprightness , bastion of truth uprightness, reliability . matthew hancock reliability. matthew hancock doing what i presume he did , was doing what i presume he did, was told to do with the assistance of his parliamentary privilege, decrying mr. bridgen commenters anti semitic hancock asked rishi whether he agreed that it was an anti—semitic and the prime

minister valiant he did agree with that planted question. hancock wandered off and tweeted in triumph how disgusting and anti—semitic everything is something he may come to regret possibly, but which which did not provide the same privilege that parliament affords mutti , that parliament affords mutti, everyone then talking about racism all day. no one mentioned that it was a jewish . mr. that it was a jewish. mr. bridgen was quoting , can you be bridgen was quoting, can you be a jewish anti—semite ? answers on a jewish anti—semite? answers on a jewish anti—semite? answers on a postcard, please. but importantly , no one was talking importantly, no one was talking about the very thing mr. bridgen had stuck his neck out about the potential harms of the so—called vaccines, which a growing number of people are about think are about as reliable del boys reliant . i about as reliable del boys reliant. i wonder if any figures will be released or published. i should be struck take within frontline nhs staff this winter. i might be one handy weather vane my that i mean you expect sort of thing on jeremy vine the

race out there competing each other on how many times they can call someone else a racist in a minute and you expect it from halfwits like jameela jamil screeching racist slurs that are very ethnically diverse. frontbenchers with absolutely no pushback or consequence whatsoever . but then pushback or consequence whatsoever. but then again, pushback or consequence whatsoever . but then again, they whatsoever. but then again, they are the exact thing they accuse us of all, they . but in us of all, they. but in parliament this is where debate is honed , where timeless and is honed, where timeless and beautifully woven speeches are rolled along the walls, where the whip and snuff of arguments of global significance reverberate around those hallowed halls . parliament has hallowed halls. parliament has now been reduced to this . matt now been reduced to this. matt hancock it seems all away and savage jab it all rounding on a colleague and screeching anti—semite at him for doing his job, which is to ask questions and raise important issues. britain's fine of free speech

keeps just hitting new lows . keeps just hitting new lows. it's time to call an end week minded, damaging and inaccurate use of calling anyone you disagree with the racist to shut them up. the more we that word, them up. the more we that word, the more we create room for real racists to thrive in the same way. the longer the regime refuse to address the elephant in the room the more excess deaths there will be and the more will be done to the more harm will be done to the people trusted them people who trusted them with their very lives . with all of their very lives. with all of that mind, i'm going to ask you, what do you think julie bridgen virginia's being treated fairly . email your at gb news . email your views at gb news dot uk or tweet me lots of folks. ac a necessary one on the same week, ambulance workers go on strike, putting even more strain on an already crippled nhs and patients needing lifesaving facing months sitting on a waiting list, the figures

released by the illness show that 40% of deaths occurred in private homes . so this isn't that 40% of deaths occurred in private homes. so this isn't in care homes and if it isn't in hospitals , what and where are hospitals, what and where are these deaths coming from ? these deaths coming from? joining me discuss this is nhs doctor bob gill. good evening , doctor bob gill. good evening, bob. i love what is causing the rise in these excess day deaths . well, i think we an nhs which is unfortunately now deeply . and is unfortunately now deeply. and having suffered a decade of relative d funding, we know in the lead up to the pandemic there were 40,000 nurse vacancies, 10,000 doctor vacancies, 10,000 doctor vacancies and we'd lost 25,000 bed capacity . the figures we are bed capacity. the figures we are seeing now in terms of patients to be admitted, more . 12 hours to be admitted, more. 12 hours after decision has been made that basically enough to require admission . they are staggering. admission. they are staggering.

now in october alone, there were 44,000 people waiting for a bed more than 12 hours. and we know that there an increased death risk, if you are waiting in a&e like that in overcrowded and is for every 80 patients waiting . for every 80 patients waiting. in those circumstances there is one preventable death . i think one preventable death. i think that's a big factor. one preventable death. i think that's a big factor . the that's a big factor. the under—resourcing, the lack of capacity and the lack of staff leading to excess deaths. but the other parts of the functioning nhs is partly down to the covid and the lockdowns and how everything was focussed on the pandemic that has built in a delay in making diagnoses. so who don't have an early diagnosis, particularly for a serious illness? they will experience a shorter life expectancy ? see that that might expectancy? see that that might also be contrary , you think, to also be contrary, you think, to this excess death rate and what does the world what a rise in

excess deaths around the world if obviously there are problems with the national service as we know. but we're seeing excess deaths around the world. germany all over europe. actually, sweden has some of the lowest increase in access deaths. what would you attribute that to ? are would you attribute that to? are we allowed to talk about the vaccine and the harms possibly caused by it? well you know, in in in health and in science, you should never shut down or you know, try to censor, debate . know, try to censor, debate. know the point you raise about excess death in other countries that haven't faced the same challenges as the nhs need to be explored. so we need to look for commonality. common but the whole atmosphere of censoring dissenting voices. i totally and oppose so know we need investigation. we don't need silence, we need attention and we need independent scrutiny of the figures and we need some answers because you know, i'm heanng answers because you know, i'm hearing concerns from reputable voices in terms of the damage

done by the vaccine , we know done by the vaccine, we know that pfizer was very secretive about their raw data . we know about their raw data. we know reanalysis of the raw data has found that within their own figures, it was a one in 800 chance of serious adverse events. now, if there is contributing in some way to these excess deaths, we need to know about it. the sooner better . well, that's that's very brave of you to say. and thank you for doing so. and if we can rewind back to beginning of this pandemic and, the prime minister had asked you what should we do for the good of the nation what would you have advised him that day?i would you have advised him that day? i would advise i would have advised him to learn as much as possible about the seriousness of the infection. you know what the truth fatality rate rather than the case fatality rate , than the case fatality rate, which was what we were often discussing . how reliable are

discussing. how reliable are these projections on potential death rates ? you know, where are death rates? you know, where are we being scared into a state of overreacting now, looking back , overreacting now, looking back, we know that the figures for infection fatality are much lower than they projected at that point . so some of the that point. so some of the decisions that were made were contradictory . some of the contradictory. some of the rationale about, you contradictory. some of the rationale about , you know, first rationale about, you know, first of all, we were told this this vaccine would stop the spread of the pandemic. vaccine would stop the spread of the pandemic . we were made to the pandemic. we were made to feel guilty to , protect granny feel guilty to, protect granny by being vaccinated. we are told that they never tested for transmission . and now we know transmission. and now we know that transmission is definitely not held by the vaccines. so were so many people who were very low risk persuaded or bullied or coerced into taking a vaccine. and why were people with natural immunity, which we know is better for you than the vaccine , why were they also vaccine, why were they also forced or coerced into taking vaccine? so there are lots unanswered questions. irrational

decisions which actually went against some of the government advice. i know the person responsible for procuring the vaccines initially thought that this would be targeted to the high risk groups. but the roll out just kept expanding and expanding . out just kept expanding and expanding. i'm out just kept expanding and expanding . i'm deeply worried expanding. i'm deeply worried about the vaccine future group because they are close to zero risk. terrifying absolutely terrifying. bob gill, risk. terrifying absolutely terrifying. bob gill , thank you terrifying. bob gill, thank you very much. now the people that scream in my head because i'm always saying the wrong thing have asked me to read this and i will do so with utter sincerity . the pfizer vaccine is one of the three covid vaccines that are licenced for use in the uk and are currently available . the and are currently available. the nhs website says that coronavirus vaccines are safe and effective. they give you best protection against covid 19. see . so that tweet , that 19. see. so that tweet, that article where did it come from i

can tell you. the article was written by dr. josh getgo and he joins me now . good evening . written by dr. josh getgo and he joins me now. good evening. hi. good evening . tell me what good evening. tell me what motivated you to write this this piece ? well this is an issue piece? well this is an issue that i've been at for quite a long time. adverse events after the covid 19 vaccines. i think i was sceptical because, you know, pfizer , all of these companies pfizer, all of these companies are , corporate criminals. as a are, corporate criminals. as a criminologist, one of the things that we you know, it's obvious that we you know, it's obvious that these are career criminals. these corporations. so i was i was very sceptical. and then, you know , i live in israel and you know, i live in israel and we were the first and most vaccinated country at the time . vaccinated country at the time. and i saw things happening to people around me, people i knew that the kind of prompted me to look into it further. so i started looking at the american

vaccine adverse events system, the yellow card , the european the yellow card, the european system , neutral vigilance and system, neutral vigilance and just seeing the very early on, the adverse event reporting just sky. so i knew we had a real problem on our hands and i've been devoting a lot of time since then trying raise awareness of and choosing obviously it's very difficult for people to think that this stuff is done maliciously or malevolently, but there is a large cohort of people that think that it. do you think this that the story of this vaccine harm is going to come or do you think it's going to be suppressed ? well, it's already suppressed? well, it's already come out because the people have voted with their feet. right. confidence in these vaccines is completely greater. confidence in these vaccines is completely greater . the confidence in these vaccines is completely greater. the number of people getting this new booster shot in israel is next to zero. and so the story is out

. people understand that there was a big survey done in the usa , i think very recently. i think something like half of all people said they they thought they somebody who had some done a quarter thought they somebody who had died from it. so the story is out it's just not being reported in the news whether the establishment will ever admit it. it's hard to say because they you know, they have blood on their hands and so to admit this is to admit to horrible negligence at the very least . negligence at the very least. and i don't think that, you know , going to be able to do that. so i really don't know. and obviously, that is your opinion . a criminologist and sociology and dean , do you believe that and dean, do you believe that there should be investigation? do you believe that should? what would your advice be to your average person , the street in average person, the street in the uk who is thinking it's

wintertime , i'm being told get wintertime, i'm being told get boosted. what would you tell them ? what would i tell them? them? what would i tell them? i would tell them to. to. to look very carefully to not necessarily trust what . they're necessarily trust what. they're heanng necessarily trust what. they're hearing from the mainstream media because. why there such a mean why is the mainstream media we've seen we've seen this dumping down of andrew bridgen and it seem a lot and you know the bbc have only just started talking about this today. i think for the first time. why is such a back out in the mainstream media? it's not because of the relationship they have, the government what is have, the government or what is it? well i can't speak very well to the situation in the in the united kingdom. you i think there are many issues involved. one, of course, is simply an issue of advertising dollars . i issue of advertising dollars. i understand that might not as much of an issue in the united kingdom, but think about it this way . all of the all of these

way. all of the all of these companies have backed and prodded and pleaded with the people to get vaccines and have never acknowledged any issues with the vaccines or major issues with the vaccines . so issues with the vaccines. so they, you know , for them now to they, you know, for them now to come around and do a full 360 admits to their own incompetence at the very least and so i don't see why they would you know, why, why, why would they do that? they have no interest in making this . no, no. you could making this. no, no. you could tell others if you wanted to. why you know, why this and why that. why you know, why this and why that . but but why you know, why this and why that. but but it just why you know, why this and why that . but but it just detracts that. but but it just detracts from the simple fact , which is from the simple fact, which is that they're not reporting it. right. this is andrew bridgen stories, a perfect example of this because the article that i wrote about this is bombshell, the is bombshell. and yet it was completely drowned out by the controversy surrounding virgin. and it's very, very unfortunate

because what we're learning now , right. the article is about how the cdc did a safety signal analysis says of the vaccine adverse events reporting system they waited 15 months for the vaccine rollout to do that. and what they found is horrifying really . i would urge i would really. i would urge i would urge everybody who is curious about this to go and reach josh his substack article on this . his substack article on this. it's absolutely horrifying . it's absolutely horrifying. josh, thank you so much for joining me this evening. right cut me off . what's in a word? cut me off. what's in a word? back.

in three or mark dolan tonight from eight with the final word on the prince harry saga, i'll be joined live in the studio by his

former bodyguard , ken wharfe. in former bodyguard, ken wharfe. in my big opinion , as the church of my big opinion, as the church of england views, my big opinion, as the church of england views , £100 million to england views, £100 million to apologise slavery , welby apologise for slavery, welby has lost plot it might take a lost the plot it might take a ten month waitrose stops talking warburtons delicious crumpets . warburtons delicious crumpets. i'll be picking a side in the bread wars and my malt meats guest is margaret thatcher impersonator spitting image stars steve niland plus my gb news clips of the week. we're live from . live from. eight regardless of your thoughts on the vaccine the research all silence surrounding these questions we still have to address the statement itself. tell me navigate the complex and treacherous language . i am treacherous language. i am joined this evening by adam mcaleer. good evening, adam . mcaleer. good evening, adam. i could be wrong . adam gibney

could be wrong. adam gibney andrew , britain's word for anti andrew, britain's word for anti semitic . no, andrew, britain's word for anti semitic. no, and i'm not really sure anyone on matt hancock really does. and the last matt hancock talks about anything that matters, to be honest . that matters, to be honest. right but it obviously created furore in an online and social media. do do you think he was with the way he was using this language? do you think he could be expressed as a better are these comparisons totally inappropriate always never inappropriate always and never to used ever ? yeah, pretty much. to used ever? yeah, pretty much. i think it was cross and it was it was not necessary. there's there seems to be this thing these days where people compare everything to the holocaust or i personally don't like hitler it's not necessary . if something it's not necessary. if something is bad explain wise but in its own right, without bringing up something where. 6 million people, 6 million jews and other people, 6 million jews and other people died , all by comparing

people died, all by comparing someone to someone that ordered that mass murder of people. it's just necessary . and do you just necessary. and do you believe that there is in his right to stand up and the way he's been treated. yeah to talk about his views on the vaccine and you know do you think that sort of speech is acceptable and the way he's been talking the problem with that i've i've had all the vaccines and i know people that haven't you're quite intense tonsils have your own opinions . i intense tonsils have your own opinions. i do think there's a lot of hysteria around what he's saying . you know , everyone in saying. you know, everyone in parliament conscious of the same views , they don't have the same views, they don't have the same views, they don't have the same views on everything else. a wise everybody the same everybody got to have the same views. and i come the vaccine he's quite entitled to have the answer i don't even know if answer it's i don't even know if it's anti—vax but he's it's fully anti—vax but he's quite views quite tonsils have those views he doesn't bring he just doesn't need to bring jewish and the holocaust jewish people and the holocaust into be honest. yeah into it to be honest. yeah i don't i don't think he was bringing jewish people and the holocaust into it. i think what he was doing was quoting

somebody else who happened to be jewish. is that the correct jewish. is that not the correct am not correct in what i'm am i not correct in what i'm saying? he is. but his tweet saying? he is. but his tweet saying this is the worst thing since the holocaust . but since the holocaust. but i exaggerated, to be honest, that is not this is not the worst thing since and he just doesn't need to mention the holocaust. he can say this is terrible, this is awful. he doesn't need to bring that into it. and more broadly, isn't a reminder, you know, because generations move on and on and on and we forget past atrocities , all of these past atrocities, all of these things. it is not important and crucial that we remember the disaster and the appalling myth of the holocaust and how the clumsy this was. it was a way of trying to say, you know, these things are absolutely dreadful. i i mean, that's one way of looking at it. we and of course, it's important to we have holocaust museum, have a holocaust museum, have a holocaust education trust . we holocaust education trust. we have education arts in schools that, you know , never stop that, you know, never stop learning about. so obviously, like with every atrocity, but

there is a time and a place to bnng there is a time and a place to bring it up and that just wasn't is it when is the time in the place to bring it up in public? i know that you're saying there's a lot of overuse of these terms, but you know what ? these terms, but you know what? what about a massacre in ukraine, for example? can one compare that to what? when, when come amongst the massacre, the massacres in ukraine, all the massacres in ukraine, all the massacres in ukraine, all the massacres in ukraine? the holocaust is the holocaust is genocides everywhere, all their own separate genocides. they just don't need to. it's an oppression don't oppression olympics. we don't need compare everything to need to compare everything to everything . would you say everything. and would you say that these allegations of anti—semitism have been weaponised ? i wouldn't . they've weaponised? i wouldn't. they've been weaponised. i'd just say they're absolutely ridiculous. hancock didn't need . to go up hancock didn't need. to go up and say andrew bridgen is an anti—semite on. whose authority is he saying that he's not spoken to in the jewish community about it? well, i would imagine on the authority of whoever he is not of whoever handed it, he is not as as might imagine , on as much as you might imagine, on the whoever handed the authority of whoever handed him piece paper and told him

him the piece paper and told him to what he did anyway. good. to say what he did anyway. good. thank much, adam, for thank you very much, adam, for joining me. daily star joining me. right. daily star journalist after the break, my 1 to 1, i'm really enjoyed this one interview with commentator 90 racism campaigner bushra . 90 racism campaigner bushra. don't go away away .

welcome back now. once a week in a neutral location, i sit down with an increasingly bunch of sandwiches. which costs my producer eats. afterwards and i discuss the things that i find interesting in life. and this week, i spoke with bushra sheikh. commentator and anti—racism campaigner. sheikh. commentator and anti—racism campaigner . and here anti—racism campaigner. and here is how we go on. bushra sheikh, thank you so much for joining me. very welcome . for a very me. very welcome. for a very light hearted conversations

about things . let's start with about things. let's start with big one. the most light hearted , questionable to find the time racism. okay if i was to define racism, i would say it is when a person . when a person presents person. when a person presents an action or speaks about something which is discriminative of the other person of their race . that's person of their race. that's exactly how i define the term racism. now let's go to the punch book. now i have in its guidance the top judge , its guidance the top judge, its fights over 500 pages long and cannot justice same time as the race and ethnic disparities report came out which defined racism pretty much exactly same way as you defined it yet. this is what the guidance for judges says. racism is a term defined more by facts slash outcomes than by motives. a racist or a

person who acts in a racist way is not necessarily racially prejudiced . however, the term is prejudiced. however, the term is often used to describe a combination of conscious or unconscious prejudice and power to implement, which leads, however unintentionally , to however unintentionally, to disproportionate disadvantage for bame. people can't see by many more people who use the term to describe the actions of others. may or may not mean that the other person is personally prejudiced. wow discuss. wow okay. we agree with that. oh, i don't know if i agree or disagree. why? because i think right there you've just read out a number of things from seven or eight things that we'd have to unpack and really get to the crux of, because a part of it is saying, well , there is prejudice saying, well, there is prejudice . and then they're saying, but that prejudice may not be really like subconscious that they like a subconscious that they hold. and it might mean that what they're saying is not really what they mean . it really what they mean. it basically says it to me. it says everybody with white skin is a racist. okay. that's it says to me because it may or may not be

you might not mean to be. yeah, definitely are . just in case, definitely are. just in case, side point three, four, five, six and seven. yeah. and this is guidance judges. but why do we live in a world where we are a racist. racism is discriminating someone based on their race i guess because say something like thatis guess because say something like that is a accusation i think a fascinating thing because one of the things that we tackle globally is race ism. and i do know that systemically. globally, yes yes. correct. and when we when we talk about it, we always that a person who is white technically cannot racism. how simply because they are born with a privilege, which is the colour of their skin. but what about the you know , the working about the you know, the working class kids in the north england who don't go to university ? yes, who don't go to university? yes, but that's not a privilege. it's different , right, because you different, right, because you can agree to find the meaning, the word privilege and privilege is i mean, we don't have to go into semantics now, but into semantics right now, but there is a privilege based on

there is a privilege based on the colour of your skin . now you the colour of your skin. now you can either accept it that is that exists is that . no, there that exists is that. no, there isn't . so there's only white isn't. so there's only white privilege . there is only white privilege. there is only white privilege. there is only white privilege , it sounds dreadfully privilege, it sounds dreadfully like is racism. i mean. i mean. i mean saying that a person has privilege based on the colour isn't the same as racism because you're not attacking the person . having a privilege is a good thing . and i would love to have thing. and i would love to have been the little white kids who don't have any privilege or any money, but that's not that. that's a privilege is it going to help? they can be so . yeah. to help? they can be so. yeah. so if you if you put if you put two different people's together and one person, person of colour and one person, person of colour and the other person is white and the other person is white and you give them both the same opportunity like a call it opportunity like a let's call it a dual. is a bigger chance , big a dual. is a bigger chance, big a dual. is a bigger chance, big a chance by statistics and facts that the that the white person will have a better opportunity for that except if you're a working class kid from the north

of england . but that's where you of england. but that's where you have no you have a much lower chance than your black and asian people of succeeding . i mean, people of succeeding. i mean, thatis people of succeeding. i mean, that is also a fact . well, what that is also a fact. well, what i want to what i want to say is i, i just take someone at face value. obviously you notice people's skin colour and one of the things you then do is go, where are you from? yeah people ask me where i'm from all the time because i think i'm denmark. do you think that some racist thing they actually know that? you know, i think we are cunous that? you know, i think we are curious and we are human beings and part of and of us is to get to know each other we are different. and clearly when we look means that look different, it means that we come from different background come from a different background . that genuine . and i think that genuine curiosity, think you can curiosity, i think you can come across that use across individuals that will use that and the curiosity as something else to lady hussey was doing that, you know, well after a lot of thinking about it because of that story unfolded

and you know , it, it can it can and you know, it, it can it can go either way. if we want to talk about subconscious bias, perhaps she did have that, but perhaps she did have that, but perhaps she did have that, but perhaps she was curious. but we don't know. no, we don't know . don't know. no, we don't know. what we do know is that inkosi feel like. yeah, yeah . pretty feel like. yeah, yeah. pretty strongly . yes. in one direction. strongly. yes. in one direction. and documented the entire conversation. yeah and presented it in the way that she did. so i, i didn't see it as a good faith exchange and tonight. yeah. so obviously all of us want to reduce i don't you never obliterate racism now. i don't think it's just not possible. and there's also an argument, as we were saying before we started that everyone is a little bit racist somewhere. yeah, but we want to reduce drastically . want to reduce drastically. yeah. racism we're not supposed to because it's horrible to judge or criticise them based on

something they can do about. yes and were talking about the fact you run an anti organisation. yes can i ask what the difference between , what's the difference between, what's the opposite of anti—racism what's the opposite of an anti—racist . the opposite of an anti—racist. so the opposite of the anti—racist is somebody who obviously is a clearly somebody who is racist . so we do who is racist. so we do anti—racism because what we say is it's more of a education. it's about people that are ill informed , well informed enough informed, well informed enough to understand that. perhaps they do hold a stereotypical prejudice based on historical events or historical, just in general. so sort of carrying even some people can say you've got a chip on your shoulder, you are angry and upset about history. you're angry why something something's happened to people to you and why group of people ostracise discriminated ostracise you discriminated against. so the anti—racist campaigns kind of campaigns are more about kind of informed educating people on what racism looks like and what can look like today . can you see can look like today. can you see that it would to some people it's like it is a slightly

semantic trial. yeah. which is that you say, you know, anti—racism sounds brilliant. yeah.i anti—racism sounds brilliant. yeah. i think all of us are anti—racist. yeah do you think that racism is on the rise or you think it's on the fold ? i my you think it's on the fold? i my personal opinion, i believe that racism, the i don't think it's something that is getting worse. i think , in fact, the tools and i think, in fact, the tools and the things that we have present today is really helping drive that. i think the education system as well has incorporated so much about this. now and i believe at one time there was there was this thing seeing everybody the same and i think that's quite unhealthy to what you mean. so at some at some stage in schools, i actually can being told that we should all look at each other as the same. right. let's drink straight and in school , even right. let's drink straight and in school, even as a child, i was taught that and i'm off to speak with, you know, many, many people. they also said the same thing as me. and even now there are adults exist who will even say, we're all the same. and say, but we're all the same. and i'm like, that's actually

i'm like, well, that's actually counterproductive. because if you all the you think that we're all the same, doesn't us same, then it doesn't make us different. so got to different. so you've got to acknowledge is acknowledge there is a difference us. but difference between us. but see those see those things those things, see those things in a good light. earlier on, before this, we were talking about kind of stereotyping again. and i a lot of that again. and i think a lot of that it stems from people it stems from because people often box categories and groups often box categories and groups of according to the of people up according to the kind of bad things that they did. and i think , you know, if did. and i think, you know, if we really want to have open discourse about it, we've got to be honest about the be really honest about the thoughts on mind thoughts that are going on mind to we say. because read to what we say. because i read things crime, for example things about crime, for example , and i've had it in , you know, and i've had it in the past with people like the black community to crime. but when you really want to have a conversation about that, it's very difficult. so unless we don't talk about these things honestly, going honestly, we're never going to have a positive outcome. have like a positive outcome. well, yeah, i suppose. mean, well, yeah, i suppose. i mean, i do that cultural things do know that cultural things because necessarily because i don't necessarily think, you know, all of the research that they've done in america is the reason why such a small percentage of the population commits such a large

amount of 50% of the crime is fatherlessness . yeah, fatherlessness. yeah, essentially. so i, i don't know. it's got to do with skin colour. no don't either. yeah, i there must be very complex reasons that one can look back all the way back through crow, all the way back through crow, all the way back through crow, all the way back to slavery as to why that is. but then you find some interesting statistics, which is that crow and during that during jim crow and during slavery, even black families were very had a higher rate of staying together than white families. yeah, yeah, absolutely so it's, it's my what? my not my concern, but my worry is that we if we talk about it a lot, you we don't we stop seeing the individual in the other person and you know it's why i particularly don't like. meghan markle yeah , very much. okay. markle yeah, very much. okay. because she talks about it all the time. yeah and it's like you , you, i know you're from south asia . yeah, right. but you could asia. yeah, right. but you could very easily be from sicily. yeah which, which you when people meet me, they do ask me,

actually ask me on phone. and sometimes i say we're in rome and. they get confused because i think of somewhere else. so yeah, that experience .

what do you what's your take on the meghan and harry moments oh on oh gosh you know i like the backlash because i've seen as an anti—racism campaigner, which by the way anti just means against racism. but yeah, the anti—racism campaign apparently i should have been supporting her. but the truth is what i try to tell people is i don't like her. there is something about her. there is something about her that looks like a bully, doesn't she? yeah and i just feel like she . the racism card feel like she. the racism card just to suit the kind of . yeah. just to suit the kind of. yeah. money i can find could be money, but for me, i always look at history to show me a lot about that will actually never really

have spoken about that the past and all of a sudden we're talking about racism now linked to linked to meghan. so yeah, i've, i've got a lot of things to say about her. she does a lot. the cause of harmony. yes. which is what we're doing. and i think we're probably in a funny time in the west anyway, as you know. but i've said this really inches know. but i've said this really incites my nephews and nieces . incites my nephews and nieces. they're all mixed race and in in the next two or three generations. so i think pretty much a lot of people are going to be. yeah yeah. so we're in this sort of clunky time and i wonder with a heightening the noise on racism i teach they did this to my son's school how do i teach my child about race . don't teach my child about race. don't just say not not that we're all the same yeah. love everybody. yeah, yeah. unless they're in if, you know, judging them on their actions, not their. yeah. and i think instead of, i think instead of always finding something that's not the same in our cultures and people of

colour, think there's so much colour, i think there's so much that so that connects us together. so i think we focus on the things that are alike food, culture, like , you know, for instance, like, you know, for instance, i went to italy and i spent some time in italy and i realised that they are so traditional in the family values and it was so close to me as a south asian muslim family. so, so much of out of things that we like out of the things that we like and things do all the and things that we do all the same. so think very same. so i think is very important that also don't important that people also don't always about the things of always talk about the things of why we look at why we are different. we look at the why were the the things of why why were the same i think that's an same and i think that's an important discussion to have that sounds like really positive thing. would seem thing. yeah it would seem like you that you wouldn't need that that wouldn't that wouldn't be anti—racism that wouldn't be anti—racism that would pro harmony. yes would just be pro harmony. yes it's like it's like pro—choice or pro—life. yeah. i mean also like what i was thinking is that i think in time where i think we're in a time where lots of people think that being drama central is . and just going drama central is. and just going just going by history. i even want to speak to my grandmother , god bless her. when she was alive, she always spoke about peace spoke about

peace and she always spoke about harmony. i just believe at harmony. and i just believe at the we are facing this the moment we are facing this challenge is let's have challenge is let's just have drama . and sometimes drama drama. and sometimes drama borderlines entertain men and yes, it might be fun for 5 minutes, but actually what does look like? what does harmony look like? what does harmony look like? what does harmony look like? people you know, we do have focus on that. well, it's only i completely agree with you, always like with you, but it's always like the already built it. the causes already built it. yeah, because i i'm guilty of it. if someone attacks me, i get attacked frequently, frequently called a myriad of things that are just not true to me. and i find it very, very upsetting. and sometimes i push back really hard because i will go , you're hard because i will go, you're attacking my good name. yeah. and i take that very personally . yeah. so i wonder how we put the genie back in the box . what the genie back in the box. what do you reckon? how do we. how do promote harmony? by trying to see the positives in each other as individuals? definitely as your play. any part in that or i know you have this in all know you have seen this in all your muslim. yeah. yeah. so i'm

for sure. but a practising muslim again is a question because people may argue, well, no you don't considering the fact that, you know , i used to fact that, you know, i used to wear hijab and i don't mind slept your hijab and covered your in you go to your eyebrows in case you go to hell. did , did. used to i hell. i did, i did. i used to i used cover my hijab up to my used to cover my hijab up to my eyebrows and my mum be surprised that is when i was that of me. this is when i was like nine, you know, your mum's can getit like nine, you know, your mum's can get it off. yeah yeah. my mom try to get it off me mom used to try to get it off me when. i was like seven drew oh gosh, it's yeah. it just one gosh, it's yeah. it was just one of things going to mosque. of those things going to mosque. it part as part of it was, is part of as part of faith, you go to mosque when you're younger and you know, if you've a teacher, are you've got a teacher, you are being influenced them. and at that me at that time that we like to me at that time that we like to me at that time that we like to me at that time was on a reward system. so for me, i felt like at all good deeds that i did. you know, considering you know i was old, but all the was 89 years old, but all the good i would would good deeds i would do would ultimately me to heaven. and ultimately get me to heaven. and i'm young, i have no i'm so young, i have no understanding of life. you know, this the one thing that was understanding of life. you know, ticontrolthe one thing that was understanding of life. you know, ticontroltheall,e thing that was understanding of life. you know, ticontrolthe all, ithing that was understanding of life. you know, ticontroltheall, i guesshat was understanding of life. you know, ticontroltheall, i guesshat met a control of all, i guess for me . so young girls and i was just

i think what people should be people be allowed to, you people should be allowed to, you know, do whatever they want . know, do whatever they want. yeah. you think about as yeah. what do you think about as a visitor in another country you should ascribe to their cultural norms or i mean , are your views norms or i mean, are your views oi'i norms or i mean, are your views on people when you see the full you know, veil the full thing with kind of black and the little gold thing . yeah. what do little gold thing. yeah. what do you think that's fine. well, whatever you like. yeah i believe. look, people should , believe. look, people should, you know, i'm like the least judgemental person. so if that's something that you are adopting to wear as a symbol of something, then sure . for me something, then sure. for me i always say understand why you're doing something. because i live. my doing something. because i live. my own experience is in the past i didn't fully understand some . i didn't fully understand some. i didn't fully understand some. i think it's important for people to know why they doing something always know why behind everything doing because everything that doing because it's not healthy to do something because someone else told you to it. means you're doing it. that means you're doing something not for something for them and not for yourself . and i believe that

yourself. and i do believe that there an element that if you do travel and you go to different countries that have a different culture, way culture, you know, the way things in that countries things work in that countries difference, i think it's important we respectful important that we are respectful of but now we of that. but then now know we are where there is are in a climate where there is are in a climate where there is a east meets west, we've got faith in non faith and that is merging slightly. so like you said, places said, you pockets of places where a bit where you can be a little bit free but i do feel like to adhere to kind of rules and respecting country actually respecting that country actually says about a person's says more about a person's character than anything else like obviously we have like i think obviously we have a cultural heritage of looking each other's faces. yeah. so when you see somebody who you can't see their face. yeah. you feel immediately othered from them, alienate it from them that you can't connect with them. yeah, absolutely. and that i can see why some people that a bit sort of stressful. yeah this obviously goes back to the debate as a muslim that's something that i question all the time and i believe this is this is this is my interpretation that the face veil isn't compulsory because you're right there are certain

things that we do when we speak to other. you need to see to each other. you need to see a person's face. you've got these gestures, you've gestures, you know, you've got that language that they speaking is not verbal, you see, is not only verbal, you see, you've the tone of the you've got the tone of the voice, you've the body voice, you've got the body language. you're language. and when you're covering you covering everything up, you are not to that. so i do not able to get that. so i do believe the face veil is part it's fully an obligation it's fully like an obligation islam. i definitely it's islam. i definitely think it's a choice a of me always choice and a part of me always questions the practicality of something going to something so if you're going to because this is thoughts i because this is thoughts that i had i was covering if i'm had when i was covering if i'm wearing a dress all at the wearing a long dress all at the time i'm in and it's time and i'm in london and it's raining like can be quite dangerous because i remember at one being soaked up one point just being soaked up to and having run to my knee and having to run around two. you know, around with two. you know, i have three children at the time, all under the age of five, and it was just not practical for me, know? hence why, me, you know? hence why, i believe there some believe that there were some cultures that we've from other countries. dress countries. so this long dress even, don't have you even, i don't know. have you seen this very white seen some wear this very white dress. called though dress. it's called the though i like that. yeah. which, which is cool one. oh cool right. i've got one. oh have have you, have you got have you. have you, have you got the kandura. you've got the kandura. right. you've got

the kandura. right. you've got the whole lot. i don't , i do the whole lot. i don't, i do wear it. yes. i mean, i mean if you think about it from like historical society, educate people to say that the soap and the abaya actually cultural dress saudi dress that comes from saudi arabia is not actually islamic . arabia is not actually islamic. it's a cultural dress . and when it's a cultural dress. and when you look at the way muslim men used to be in the past they used to ride horses they used to go in to go to war. if you imagine wearing the soap and trying to do anything in that you can't run because the width is ridiculous, you'd literally fall over. ridiculous, you'd literally fall over . you look right. i mean, over. you look right. i mean, you look right is impractical. you so little things like this. i think that under the banner of education and being involved i love appropriation . i love cultural appropriation. i think it's an amazing thing. yeah you know, without cultural appropriation and i would never have got to have have had people yeah mince chicken yeah okay yeah mince chicken yeah okay yeah and hot chilli and basil and just my favourite food. yeah. all yeah. do you think is, are there any examples of bad

culture? but no, i think , i culture? but no, i think, i don't know, whatever you want to put this on. there is a very detrimental woke culture that exists. i hate that. what .

this is mark dolan tonight, which now starts at the earlier time 8 pm. every friday and saturday night, right through until 11. and just a moment. my now clips of the week we pulled together all of the best bits from seven days of great output here at the people's channel. what a great start to your weekend also this hour former member the european parliament and football club chairman lowe joins me. we'll be asking if the political elites are trying to

undo brexit.