welcome to gloria mates. it's the real me with labour mp kim leadbeater , her sister jo cox leadbeater, her sister jo cox was murdered in 2016 while she was murdered in 2016 while she was doing her job as an mp. was doing herjob as an mp. you've then got losing people through illness. you've got losing people through, you know, all sorts of different circumstances. i think murder just gives everything a whole new dimension . i've been to the new dimension. i've been to the marginal constituency seat of ashfield in nottinghamshire, so get the views of voters there. which one would you rather see as prime minister and shadow leader of the house? sangam debbonaire we shouldn't have to tolerate the sort of wrongdoing that puts people in fear, that makes people fearful at work. all that after your news . good all that after your news. good

afternoon . it's 6:01. i'm afternoon. it's 6:01. i'm bethany elsey with your top stories from the gb news room. police are still searching for the gunman behind yesterday's suspected drive by shooting in central london. a seven year old girl remains in a critical condition after being shot outside a church near euston station. four women and a second child aged 12 were also taken to hospital with one of them suffering, life changing injuries. police say shots were fired from a moving black toyota . as mourners left a funeral service superintendent jack rowlands is urging witnesses to come forward if the suspects discharge a shotgun from a moving vehicle , which was a moving vehicle, which was a black toyota c h4. we want to hear from anyone who witnessed the incident or has information about it . at least 68 people about it. at least 68 people have been killed when a domestic plane crashed in nepal. the country's worst aviation

disaster in three decades. 72 people were on board the jet, the airlines flight that crashed in pokhara during clear skies. those on board included passengers from india, ireland, austral and france. all but four of the bodies have been recovered . the search operation recovered. the search operation has been paused until tomorrow morning . the health secretary morning. the health secretary has criticised the gmb union over what he calls a lack of patient and public safety during recent ambulance strikes . steve recent ambulance strikes. steve barclay wrote to the unions saying voluntary arrangements which were put in place were not enough. it comes as anti strike legislation which would require minimum service levels is due to be debated by mps tomorrow. last week the gmb published an open letter saying ambulance staff felt demonised by the government . sir keir starmer is calling for an overhaul of the nhs , for an overhaul of the nhs, saying it must reform or it will

die. writing in the sunday telegraph, he says a labour government would turn gp's into direct nhs employees rather than allowing them to run their own practises he also announced plans to allow some patients such as those with back pain, to self—refer themselves to specialist sites will double the number of medical students using money from abolishing the non—dom status for the super rich . but also we need to look rich. but also we need to look at the way gp's operate and see whether we can't make changes. there things which will actually preserve the nhs going forward. the moment what the government's doing is really just presiding over managed decline and that over a managed decline and that i not accept. of course i will not accept. of course there will be no challenges , there will be no challenges, whatever you reform something, but if you don't reform but frankly if you don't reform the nhs then i fear it will die . at least 30 people have been killed and 30 more are being treated in hospital after a russian missile hit an apartment building in central ukraine. rescue efforts are continuing

with officials saying a further 40 people could still be trapped under the rubble . yesterday, under the rubble. yesterday, russia launched a major missile attack on ukraine, striking vital energy facilities across the country. a authorities say the country. a authorities say the coming days will be difficult with threats to the supply of electricity , water and supply of electricity, water and heating. old during the height of winter . meanwhile, the prime of winter. meanwhile, the prime minister is asking government ministers to help persuade global allies to give more support to ukraine and help break the stalemate with russia. it comes after rishi sunak announced the uk would be sending 14 tanks to kyiv with the first anniversary of the war approaching . mr. sunak is approaching. mr. sunak is stressing the need for an international strategy . former international strategy. former major general chip chapman was head of counter terrorism at the ministry of defence . he told gb ministry of defence. he told gb news russia isn't backing down. so it's really this shift in the

red lines which will probably lead to other countries in the next two weeks or so, giving honour to the ukrainians , which honour to the ukrainians, which gives them this idea of a winning faster strategy in 2023. of course, the enemy on the other side gets a vote in that and it looks like the russians are going to mobilise another 500,000 men this year. on top of the 300,000 they mobilised in october. so there's a lot of hard fighting to come yet. europe today is on tv, online and db plus radio. this is gb news. we'll have more news as it happens. but for now, it's time for gloria means. kim leadbeater. i have been wanting to interview you for ages. wanting to interview you for ages . i'm wanting to interview you for ages. i'm really thrilled to meet you. actually because i haven't met you before. no well, that's very kind of you. but you

do need to get out more. we're going to talk about the circumstances which led to you becoming the mp for your hometown a little bit later. but can i ask you, had you ever thought about becoming a member of parliament? probably not in that clearer way of expressing it. i'd always been really interested in politics and actually at primary school, one of the teachers said, oh, kim , of the teachers said, oh, kim, one day you'll be prime minister. so i was pretty confident, even at a young age. but no , i hadn't. again, i sort but no, i hadn't. again, i sort of toyed with the idea, actually started a degree in philosophy and politics when i was about 19, but i never finished it because the timing wasn't right and various other things. so yeah, i don't think this was the trajectory that i was going down and has been the most and what has been the most unexpected thing about becoming a member of parliament? i think the most challenging things are . the the most challenging things are. the the most challenging things are. the the job in westminster and the

job in the constituents and because i actually think those are both too full time jobs and i think doing both of them well is really challenging. if you do them both properly. and the other thing that i find really challenging is the range of subjects you subjects and topics which you need to keep your head and need to keep in your head and i find that quite frustrating. i remember someone during remember someone actually during the an ex mp the by—election he was an ex mp who said to me, you're like a gp, you have to know a little bit about everything. and i think really true and think that's really true and i really remember words and really remember those words and i quite hard because i find that quite hard because i actually quite person actually quite a details person and rather know. right, and i would rather know. right, well, why is this happened well, but why is this happened and what's the background to it and what's the background to it and story to it? and and what's the story to it? and the is you can't the reality is you can't know that everything that that about everything that you're expected to deal with. so those two most those are the two most challenging things. so most of the think is a the stuff i don't think is a surprise to me because i've got anidea surprise to me because i've got an idea of what the job is like, having sister do it, having seen my sister do it, having seen my sister do it, having seen my sister do it, having seen other people do it, and time in and and having spent time in and around previous life around parliament previous life and you've got term and you've got a long term partner. she's called claire. have had have you always had relationships women well, relationships with women? well,

no, and not no, interestingly and not particularly in the public domain, but until claire , domain, but until i met claire, i'd always had relationships with men. so and i find this really interesting, actually, because i'm not a big labels person and we spend a lot of time obsessing about and time obsessing about labels. and i it's also really i think it's also really personal how people choose to identify. met claire about identify. but i met claire about 13 now, we've been 13 years ago now, and we've been together but prior together ever since. but prior together ever since. but prior to wasn't even on my to that it wasn't even on my radar to even think about having a relationship with a woman. and i sometimes that's what i think sometimes that's what happens it? happens in life, isn't it? things that not expecting things that you're not expecting happen horrible happen sometimes. horrible sometimes experience sometimes good to experience a homophobia, have have people treated you differently since you have been with a woman and very, very occasion i would say certainly never experienced homophobia which i've had friends and colleagues experience on a horrendous scale and friends and colleagues who came out as gay. ten, 20, 30 years ago. i've certainly never experience any of that. i do think there there is a different

way of people treating you, but not necessarily in a negative way, just maybe slightly different. i mean, my friends were gobsmacked, so my friends were gobsmacked, so my friends were like, oh my god, what's she doing now? so they really doing now? so they were really surprised, but not negative at all. just like hell came . i, you all. just like hell came. i, you know, didn't see that one coming, but no . so i'm very coming, but no. so i'm very fortunate and i think that's really important to me as well to make sure that my experience is my experience, but to understand that that's not everybody's experience. and sadly , we do still see huge sadly, we do still see huge amounts discrimination and amounts of discrimination and homophobia with sadly lots homophobia along with sadly lots of other abuse for so people just being who they are . and just being who they are. and that's agenda that i'm really that's an agenda that i'm really keen do my work on. keen to sort of do my work on. i want to take you back to june 2016 so that terrible day when your sister, jo cox , was your sister, jo cox, was murdered , i just got a shiver murdered, i just got a shiver down my spine, actually just saying that because she was my colleague , i remember very colleague, i remember very clearly where i was when i knew something was wrong . the shock

something was wrong. the shock and pain that we went through as colleagues, as nothing compared to what you would have gone through . tell me when you first through. tell me when you first heard something was wrong . so heard something was wrong. so i was at home on that day because it was the european football championship and we were at home getting ready to watch and it was england and wales. but i'd taken my car in, for example, to the garage just down the road. so i was trying to keep fit and healthy. so i said tickler, i'll jump healthy. so i said tickler, i'll jump down, get my car, come back up and watch the football. and i remember just i was getting rememberjust i was getting close to garage. my phone close to the garage. my phone went and it was jo's husband and basically saying that jo had been . and what is been attacked. and what is really that as soon as really weird is that as soon as i heard that, knew this was i heard that, i knew this was not going to be good and i just knew and i remember that shaking andifs knew and i remember that shaking and it's really where it is now

. things have a physical manifestation on you. and i said to the guy at the garage, i said, don't . you could see that said, don't. you could see that i was shaken . and he said, are i was shaken. and he said, are you all right, kim? and said, you all right, kim? and i said, yeah, i'm i'm fine. yeah, yeah, i'm fine, i'm fine. i've just had a bit of a worrying phone call and i said, you know, my sister's the mp and i've just had some news that she's attacked. i said she's been attacked. and i said and said, oh, jo jo cox. and i said, oh, it's jo jo cox. and might have heard about and you might have heard about an event. no, kim, i an event. no no, no, kim, i don't watch the news. it's too depressing. i remember that conversation really? claire's a lovely the lovely bloke. stayed at the garage getting garage and remember getting in my and then my car, driving home, and then the sort of quite the rest is sort of quite a blur. i haven't revisited it very much, haven't had any counselling, make sure counselling, so let's make sure this into a therapy this doesn't turn into a therapy session and i guess since that day i have just tried to put one foot in front of the other to keep going, mainly for my parents and mainly forjo's children, but also as you say, for everybody else who was affected by jo's murder. and that's a heck of a lot of people and colleagues , people in our

and colleagues, people in our local area whose lives were changed forever . and just to try changed forever. and just to try and show that when the worst possible things do happen in life and sadly they do to lots of people, and if somehow got to find a way to carry on and i suppose that's what i've been doing ever since. and that doesn't mean that sam don't particularly well, but i've kept going on. i'll continue to do that long as i can . the that for as long as i can. the grieving be just a constant grieving must be just a constant process. does it change? i think grace really fully , isn't it? grace really fully, isn't it? loss is very strange. grief is very strange. and at the centre of any loss, it's a bit like an onion isn't it? you've got losing that person and then you've got a circumstances around that loss. and like i lost my grandparents. ripe old age is a nineties and, and that was sad but it wasn't tragic and we were all upset, but we were devastated. you've then got losing people through illness. you've got losing people. you know, all sorts of different circumstances. i think murder

just gives everything a whole new dimension . and there's lots new dimension. and there's lots of other layers around what happened to jo. clearly, the political nature of her murder, the fact that it was taking place in a very toxic political environment and culture , the environment and culture, the fact that it was news all around the world. so not only were we plunged into a world of loss and grief , but plunged into a world of loss and grief, but the world's media were on us as a family. grief, but the world's media were on us as a family . then were on us as a family. then we'd got the political climate and the situation that was going on there. so there were so many different demand. and then we had into the legal system, had to go into the legal system, which got experience of at which i got no experience of at all. so suddenly you've got all these new worlds you're sat these new worlds that you're sat in middle of, where does in the middle of, and where does your within that? your grief sit within that? i have idea. and i'm honest have no idea. and if i'm honest and said this for nearly and i've said this for nearly seven years now, i haven't grieved. i'm nervous about grieving because soon as you grieving because as soon as you open put it open that box, you can't put it back in. does that mean i'll never leave the house? does that mean able to mean i won't be able to function? does that grief function? what does that grief look under those

look like under those circumstances? so i kind of haven't done that and i'm not saying that's right wrong. saying that's right or wrong. i think different. think everybody's different. i wouldn't blamed anybody wouldn't have blamed anybody if it the and it just locked the door and closed curtains and said, closed the curtains and said, just alone for the next just leave me alone for the next five months, five years, however long. i haven't done that. long. but i haven't done that. and children are and i think jo's children are a big part of that because they will obviously look back going forward about what happened . and forward about what happened. and i them to see not just what i want them to see not just what happened, but i want them to see how a response to what happened and fact is, as a family and and the fact is, as a family and as a community and actually as a country ways we've tried country in some ways we've tried to much positive stuff as to do as much positive stuff as we in jo's and i think we can in jo's name. and i think that's really, really important. and people that all the time and people do that all the time . know, i've spoken to the . you know, i've spoken to the families members families who've had members murdered members murdered and have lost members to and, know, one to illness. and, you know, one of you of coping is to do of you was of coping is to do something positive. i think something positive. and i think it keep going . what it does keep you going. what should should be john, who should work should be john, who should work should be john, who should be losing it? what do we need do? think there's lots need to do? i think there's lots of it. i think there of layers to it. i think there is actual physical do to is the actual physical do to the safety of and a lot has

safety of mps and a lot has changed in that regard. would changed in that regard. i would say more could be say there's still more could be done, but a lot has changed. but the broader thing for me, gloria, is around our gloria, is around what our politics and by politics looks like and by default almost what society looks and how we conduct looks like. and how we conduct ourselves around particularly difficult , contentious issues difficult, contentious issues where we do disagree. and what does that look like so that we can have healthy , robust, can have healthy, robust, passionate debates , but in passionate debates, but in a civilised and respectful manner . and since being in parliament, you know, i see some of that done really well sometimes i sadly see it less well . and i sadly see it less well. and i think therefore as political leaders, we have a responsibility to think about how we conduct ourselves . i how we conduct ourselves. i think the media have got responsible , guilty and a role responsible, guilty and a role to play in terms of how they're can create division and stoke division around contentious areas, or they can choose to be balanced and present, you know, different opinions and a different opinions and a different range of views. and also within that respecting freedom of speech and respecting freedom of speech and respecting freedom debate and freedom of debate and discussion, really, discussion, which is really, really important, but freedom of speech freedom to have your

speech and freedom to have your own opinions the same as own opinions is not the same as being offensive rude being offensive or rude or horrible . and that's kind of horrible. and that's kind of like but equally, we've all got our line as to where that is our own line as to where that is anyway. difficult anyway. so that's difficult if you have been subject to online abuse , i've not done too badly abuse, i've not done too badly since being elected , but i will since being elected, but i will be honest, part of that is because i don't tend to try and create particularly high profile for myself. i kind of came into politics thinking, i've already got enough people knowing who i am and i know having a public profile is an important part of being an mp and being in public life. but i have consciously tried not to draw attention to things on occasions and i've still been subjected to some abuse. say no one knew abuse. i would say no one knew as much as some colleagues have had spoken to many had and i've spoken to many colleagues about their experiences. and, it's experiences. and, you know, it's dreadful . experiences. and, you know, it's dreadful. but i have had somebody arrested . i yeah . yeah. somebody arrested. i yeah. yeah. for social media a real life abuse. this was an email this is something that yeah i had very

little in real life. i don't think i've had any. and i think part of it is because when i'm in the constituency, people know me. people know my story, people feel enough as they feel comfortable enough as they do week to up do every every week to come up and chat me and, you know, and chat to me and, you know, and, that as a real and, and i take that as a real compliment that people feel able to do that. but some of the things people been things that people have been through is what amazed through and this is what amazed me first into me when i first came into parliament, that mps parliament, the fact that mps would threats, abuse would read off threats, abuse online, offline , physical online, offline, physical attacks on their offices and they would read it like it was just a shopping list or it was just, yeah. and they'd come to accept it . and i think that's accept it. and i think that's a really dangerous place to be in. but i've kind found myself but i've kind of found myself almost into that , you almost going into that, you know, area and the way of thinking about it, it just comes with the job. it shouldn't come with the job. it shouldn't come with the job. it shouldn't come with the job, it shouldn't come with the job, it shouldn't come with and you. with any job. and that's you. the thing you know, we see the thing is, you know, we see sadly at minute we've got an sadly at the minute we've got an nhs crisis. we're getting nhs in crisis. we're getting doctors we're doctors getting abuse, we're getting abuse, getting nurses getting abuse, even shopkeepers, you know. and i the broader point is i think the broader point is where coming from

where is the anger coming from and we do to and and what can we do to try and help the anger be channelled into good? of into something good? and some of the is about is the anger i'm sure, is about is about politics and about the state of country. and i get state of the country. and i get that. i totally get that. but how can we do something positive with way people are with the way that people are feeling? mentioned that feeling? it's you mentioned that somebody's been arrested for sending email. yeah there sending you an email. yeah there was. don't want to go was. i mean, i don't want to go into details about really. into details about it really. what what i try not is what what i try not to do is give oxygen to these things because that's often people want you that's you. the thing you and that's you. the thing about out about it about mp speaking out about it to well, i don't to things like, well, i don't want to feel for want anyone to feel sorry for me. have this, you me. i have chosen this, you know, but kind of. but yeah, but ihave know, but kind of. but yeah, but i have children at some point, you know, and ps have chosen to go have chosen go into public life, have chosen to don't want to do ourjobs. we don't want sympathy, don't want pity. sympathy, we don't want pity. but i think it's also important that people understand the reality it's like to be reality of what it's like to be an a councillor. an mp or indeed a councillor. councillors get well or councillors get this as well or as said over careers, as i've said over careers, people media, you know, people in the media, you know, women public a women in public life in a variety of different guises get abuse. what i don't abuse. but also what i don't want do draw attention to want to do is draw attention to the people who these things , the people who do these things,

because part of this is because a big part of this is attention , and you're doing attention, and then you're doing the it's the job for them. it's interesting , your sister was interesting, your sister was murdered as she was about to, to a constituency surgery . how do a constituency surgery. how do you do your constituency ? has it you do your constituency? has it affected the way you do your constituency, etc? yeah i think for lots of mp, things changed after jo was killed around engagement with the public. some mp still do open surgeries. i don't and i never will. i'd actually people in batley and spen fully respect that and understand that . i think understand that. i think unfortunately because of what happened to sir david ms. maybe or the mp have reviewed it in light of that. yes but but you need to be accessible and that's the balance. isn't it nice to find out? and i want to be accessible. so we do a lot of we do appointments where people come to the office, but it's all prearranged. we'll do telephone calls, lot phone calls, do quite a lot of phone calls, do quite a lot of phone calls obviously can calls with people. obviously can do by email and so there do a lot by email and so there are ways of communicating with people. know, have people. you know, you don't have to open surgery. we to do that. open surgery. we kind yeah some

kind of yeah it where some people say well, i want to be accessible to my public and all the rest of it, but then i look at can happen and let's at what can happen and let's pray you pray so that pray to have you pray so that it never happens it's never happens again. but it's happened twice now, and that for me is enough to know that that is way of doing this job is not the way of doing this job safely. take all the safely. i also take all the advice i'm given advice and help that i'm given from police. west yorkshire from the police. west yorkshire police have been absolutely amazing, supportive amazing, extremely supportive of me. from kim me. coming up, more from kim leadbeater the break leadbeater after the break because the last thing i want is for my parents or partner or family or friends to get that phone call. i've been to the marginal constituency of ashfield in nottinghamshire to get the views of voters there. it's come up a little bit since we last spoke , but i still don't we last spoke, but i still don't think he is a strong leader for the labour party . labour's the labour party. labour's thangam debbonaire . we cannot thangam debbonaire. we cannot let those people who want to frighten us stop us from doing ourjobs frighten us stop us from doing our jobs because democracy really matters .

really matters.

i wrote that you carry three panic alarms with you. this was about a year ago. i think that still doesn't seem that safe to me to witness in a column. but yeah, i mean, we've got three different alarms that we can use for various different things. but yeah, i mean, i would suggest i just carry just cause i'm a woman , you know, one of i'm a woman, you know, one of those alarms. what, if anything, i can do to make a lot of noise? but then a couple of others are unked but then a couple of others are linked to the police and it is weird that that's now what my life looks like. but equally i would rather have them than not have them. because the last thing i want is for my parents or partner or family or friends to get that phone call that, you know , no one should ever have to know, no one should ever have to get the by—election that you

were a candidate . and that's were a candidate. and that's pretty toxic . have a better six pretty toxic. have a better six weeks. yeah, it was it was quite comfortable to watch, actually. yeah do we protect candidate s? you know, i think that's the thing, isn't it? probably not. but then we shouldn't after. i think . and then the big thing think. and then the big thing for me about people going into politics and that was a massive decision me to put myself decision for me to put myself forward. quick forward. it was a very quick decision . time itself, whether decision. time itself, whether it was to be the right it was proved to be the right decision, but it was. but i didn't anticipate what happened happening . and that really did happening. and that really did sort of you know, come out of the blue to me. but why would any woman , young woman , someone any woman, young woman, someone born from an ethnic minority or anyone actually want to put themselves in a situation where you are being shouted at in the street, you are getting abuse , street, you are getting abuse, you are, you know, people sending messages about you on whatsapp, groups of which, you know nothing about. why would you to put yourself out for

you want to put yourself out for that? and also on that and that worries how were we worries me because how were we going get good people in going to get good people in pubuc going to get good people in public seen public life? we've also seen a number good people and i number of good people and i would include good self in would include your good self in this away from life this step away from public life for reasons . this step away from public life for reasons. but this step away from public life for reasons . but safety for various reasons. but safety and that sense of, you for various reasons. but safety and that sense of , you know, and that sense of, you know, intrusion in your life is what is often quoted by people, men and women, very much so. women and women, very much so. women and good people across the political spectrum . so, you political spectrum. so, you know, candidates , yes, i think know, candidates, yes, i think probably should get more protection. but what does that look like? because, again, the reason you want to be a candidate is to go out and meet people and be around people. this job is all about people. that's the bit of that i that's the bit of it that i really enjoy. so how do get really enjoy. so how do you get that balance making sure that balance between making sure those safe that can those people feel safe that can also themselves in also put themselves forward in the want . and i the way that they want. and i don't have answers. i wish i did. but you're you're going to continue try and work through continue to try and work through it that we come to a we get it so that we come to a we get to a point i don't know if there is such point that every member of parliament feels safe going

about. of parliament feels safe going about . yeah. and i do think that about. yeah. and i do think that is about society and it's about culture and it's about understanding, you culture and it's about understanding , you know, the understanding, you know, the role, the role of elected officials. but, but it's also about how we treat fellow human beings actually , if we get right beings actually, if we get right down to basics, it's not about politics, it? it's about politics, is it? it's about people jobs . and people doing their jobs. and again, whether that's police officers, it's doctors, officers, whether it's doctors, whether journalists, whether it's journalists, whoever that whoever it is, that person is a human being and they're going to go their and go home to their family and they've go to home their they've got to go to home their friends. sometimes friends. and we sometimes dehumanise professions dehumanise certain professions and we dehumanise people depending on maybe what's going on in our own lives. and i just think we've got to really push back against and say, back against that and say, i mean, you as a fellow human being, whatever's being, you've got whatever's going life going on. going on in your life going on. and respect that and and i've got to respect that and try understand that and i do try and understand that and i do try and understand that and i do try and understand that and i do try and do that in parliament. i try and do that in parliament. i try and do that in parliament. i try and that in the try and do that in the constituency. i try that constituency. i try to do that in my life. but we sometimes lose sight of that human connection. and without that, you if we got you know what else? if we got remarkable you remarkable, i think you a remarkable, i think you a remarkable person . i'm also

remarkable person. i'm also sorry for what you and your family went through and just to sort of let people know what you said, i, i don't see a high profile. i think i've been trying to get you for about a year to do an interview so i can absolutely confirm that. i'm actually quite shy at the moment, and i would never believe that thing i'm not shy, but i am also building my confidence in this new world and it is a different world. you know that is a different world. and i know i'm a good enough person to be in it, but you've got to build your confidence to feel you your voice feel that you know your voice and of the people and the voices of the people that represent, you know, that you represent, you know, need to be heard full of meaning. thank you. thank meaning. yeah. thank you. thank you. you . how can you? yeah you. can you. how can you? yeah yeah, yeah. it's good to be back with some familiar faces . part with some familiar faces. part who voted labour all your life until last time when you voted for the conservative party. did we got a newbie, we got gavin .

we got a newbie, we got gavin. you also voted conservative last time. yeah voted labour in the past months . twice. yeah which past months. twice. yeah which leader was on the. can you remember . it leader was on the. can you remember. it was leader was on the. can you remember . it was actually tony remember. it was actually tony blair. tony blair. right. so a long while ago. yeah a lot too. yeah catherine who you voted for bofis yeah catherine who you voted for boris johnson last time. yes, but you voted labour and liberal democrat in the past. yes nick, you are a lifelong labour voter. yeah brilliant. this is a constituent say which i always elect as a labour mp, a general election. but last time it went conservative and you guys are largely reflect that. so i'm going to put this low, good, low, low go down. it's the labour party logo . what does labour party logo. what does anybody think when i say labour party, what comes to mind? work workers? well should be workers should be working should be

working parts of yeah at the moment i don't feel it has that i don't think it is now. i think it is changing. yeah i think it is changing. i think it's going from being something that was mainly for those working class that were workers that were in factories and things like that. and we are now moving away from that and it's actually developing itself and it seems to be a lot more people higher up, middle class, middle class than it was before. from my own perspective , it's the face of perspective, it's the face of the policy that makes a difference . and unfortunately, difference. and unfortunately, stallman doesn't work for me. we're going to come on to the individuals . what is going to individuals. what is going to come on to the individuals? but that's something that's come up before . this is the conservative before. this is the conservative party logo. what comes to mind? conservative or boastful? yeah oh, boy. oh, yeah . sterilisation oh, boy. oh, yeah. sterilisation like the rich for the rich. that's all they are. and anybody

else got any one association is there's nothing that is just organisational. there's nothing that is just organisational . yeah. well if organisational. yeah. well if you look at the logo it's it scribble . so we could also look scribble. so we could also look at anything. so for me so that is a party to you've got the labour's the right . yeah. that's labour's the right. yeah. that's the squiggle . it doesn't really the squiggle. it doesn't really say anything . stands with a say anything. stands with a rose. i associate that with england. yeah which of these passes do you trust most to support the nhs . oh yeah, yeah. support the nhs. oh yeah, yeah. what's your dog's income recently ? how do conservative i recently? how do conservative i ask you? quite like boris johnson. analysis of votes when they got rid of in it muscle. don't get me wrong it was like bumbling . yeah boris boo. go bumbling. yeah boris boo. go gather. paul he was in person. i'm really trusted because he

was somebody that i could associate with, somebody that i thought was strong . right. thought was strong. right. i would . if boris came my . but thought was strong. right. i would. if boris came my. but i can't see that on the right at this moment. nobody as even someone said anything opposite . someone said anything opposite. i don't want boris back. i'm sorry . i've seen him that way sorry. i've seen him that way too many times. the boris is made slipups , mistakes and it's made slipups, mistakes and it's cos people's lives. i want you to tell me what you think about this man. what's come to mind when i show you a picture of keir starmer he'd like to be on next time nobody ever really knew about you . i don't think knew about you. i don't think we've seen . oh, no . i've heard we've seen. oh, no. i've heard too much about his past. he's all about you with this thing where he's been . is it a where he's been. is it a prosecutor role ? so he's lost. prosecutor role? so he's lost. so in his legal background, i've

got no time of day for him . cut got no time of day for him. cut from what she's thinking. keir starmer wants . i don't trust him starmer wants. i don't trust him at the moment because i just don't think he's strong enough. he still is a little bit since we last spoke, but i still don't think he is a strong leader for the labour party . what do you the labour party. what do you think about this smell of rishi sunak? they're just so unknown. it's rich for the rich. it's not working. no, you know, i don't think it's gone out. you i don't think it's gone out. you i don't think he's got he's got the ideas for the authorities and they're from rishi saying that was all so many things. yes. he's going to do this, but all of a sudden now he's not going to do it. you say he's only just come into it, but he's got people in cabinet telling them how they should be running at the wrong and he's growing the have all got their own team. keir starmer to not only win

this but for anybody day after and teams and they can go into a job after the tournament don't even know what they are about. i think i know exactly in that train then. yeah what to do and what to say and where to go. problem solved to the point where we need to lead us. neither of them . i've got neither of them. i've got a strong personality . it's the strong personality. it's the teams behind them that are running them. yes, but neither of them are actually personal . i of them are actually personal. i wanted to go see what you think about this one, jeremy hunt is your chancellor . but there is your chancellor. but there is more his own business. i know he's made his own money and everything else , but doing that everything else, but doing that doesn't mean you're a good leader. it doesn't mean you're going to do the right thing for the everyday mum . you know, this the everyday mum. you know, this is a clue. this. sort of change

all i've seen the place and i can't remember this . you guys can't remember this. you guys know that's not going to happen . yes, that sounds rachel reeves that's labour's shadow labour strike. but i certainly we think we've got to go and say what we think about it because you don't, you don't know how if you look at all of these photos and. okay leaving her out of it because we never really know much about her but just assume that the law is not one of them. when you look at them has got the reforms that they wants to actually get the job done . but actually get the job done. but you think this holds. you've always voted since the time you were allowed to vote. yeah which one would you rather see as prime minister? neither of them . but i reckon you are going to vote again you've always vote again and you've always voted if i all these voted either. if i all these people on the what we're doing, not what we're doing, what would

you rather see as prime minnesota governor him right she sunak yeah because it was tough day for him right? so if we don't get the two parties, what might you vote for first? one of the small things you might do, i think i need to say something . think i need to say something. those two i to go because i'm actually what we need to say to keir starmer rishi sir, not the doors that we set out . talk to doors that we set out. talk to us. yeah yes, i think that is a fantastic invitation . graciously fantastic invitation. graciously not. keir starmer i'm going to keep talking. you have to get these brilliant people. sure . these brilliant people. sure. coming up, labour's thangam , coming up, labour's thangam, debbonaire and i noticed a lump more or less sticking out of my right breast

a thangam debbonaire . what a thangam debbonaire. what a fabulous name . but was a hero. fabulous name. but was a hero. a fabulous name. but was a hero. a fabulous . it's not as if you fabulous. it's not as if you have it. you have the best name in parliament. it wasn't the name you started outwith. well my dad's name was singh , it was my dad's name was singh, it was his surname. and my dad came from he was 80 on from india when he was 80 on a boat. and singh singh actually means male, sikh and i'm either male nor sikh. and so for a complicated set of reasons, it

ended up being our family surname. but after my dad's died , i felt like i really wanted to change my surname. and so in my first i wasn't married, but my first i wasn't married, but my first serious long term committed relationship where i was living with the person i did change my surname to debbonaire because was family because that was their family name and i'm really happy with that. i mean, it's a great name and i feel really lucky. i was a part of a lovely tribe of as i've got lovely nieces and nephews with whom i share that surname elected to surname now were elected to parliament in 2015. why well, i've got more votes than the other person. i mean, my sister. i mean, it's one of those things i mean, it's one of those things i had already worked as a domestic violence expert. i'd worked with violent men. i'd worked with violent men. i'd worked with violent men. i'd worked with abused women, i'd worked with abused women, i'd worked with abused women, i'd worked with children whose parents were living with the domestic violence. i did all sorts of different things to do with domestic violence. and that doesn't naturally lead you you to thought to a career in politics. but i had come from a very politically minded family .

very politically minded family. i'm interested you works i'm interested that you works with violent men. did you did you what did you learn? was there a pattern that what i learned as well was yes, there are some extremely violent people who will probably never stop being violent , but there stop being violent, but there are a huge chunk of people with whom if you get the right intervention at the right time with the right also with the right currents, now there has to be a threat of a sanction or an actual sanction, but the opportunity, the carrot is you will have a better life if you stop being violent. now a said you elected in shortly you elected in 2015 shortly after being elected you were diagnosed with breast cancer. tell me the moment knew something was wrong . i was in something was wrong. i was in the shower about three weeks after i got elected and i noficed after i got elected and i noticed a lump more or less sticking out of my right breast. and it's i mean, first of all, i want to say to everybody, please, women in particular, get your breasts checked. let's check your breast. but also go and get your mammograms when you called forward. please please,

please, because that was quite late . it meant that i was stage late. it meant that i was stage three, which is not as good a stage one or two, not as bad a stage one or two, not as bad a stage four. but it's further on and i stopped checking my breasts somewhere along the line. i think when you're a candidate and i've been a candidate and i've been a candidate for three years on top of a job, i had lost track somewhere and i remember thinking when i saw it, how how how did i not see that before? really genuinely had to go . and really genuinely had to go. and i was say that, but genuinely serious sleep checking your breast saves lives that's the first thing. and then the thing i learnt was you can get through it, you know, the first time you hear the word cancer, i know for a lot of people it feels like it's a death sentence. well actually, with breast cancer , actually, with breast cancer, which is the most common form of cancer that women get, lots of us are going to get it. one in two people in their lifetime will get cancer. but actually breast has gone in my lifetime from a disease that you mostly die of fairly soon to a disease

that you mostly survive for a good ten years or more, which is that's kind of all you look at when you first get your diagnosis. i'm actually going to get the other end and. get out the other end and. i did, but was tough. i you know, it's not the most fun you ever have having chemotherapy. and did any lifestyle did you make any lifestyle changes ? i read that you pretty changes? i read that you pretty much stopped drinking. yeah alcohol. i did. yes. i mean , i alcohol. i did. yes. i mean, i hadnt alcohol. i did. yes. i mean, i hadn't ever drunk a lot anyway . hadn't ever drunk a lot anyway. i don't remember. no i didn't used to go to ask him about happened since i've relaxed a bit in the last few years. it's seven years now. so i have relaxed a bit. but for the first few years i just didn't drink . few years i just didn't drink. it was just simpler. it was a good way of keeping control of my weight because weight is a risk factor with breast cancer . risk factor with breast cancer. but know, i just but also, you know, i just looked all the factors looked at all the risk factors that there were for recurrence. and of is alcohol. i and one of them is alcohol. i just thought, well, that's an easy thing to cut out as it

happens, as time went on, like i said, you know, eventually my specialist did say, i think if i now, but it was easier to relax a bit. but it's made me much more conscious. then of all more conscious. i then of all things, went from being the things, i went from being the girl that always managed to survive beginning of survive off at the beginning of term. so that pe teacher term. so that the pe teacher would write a report. you know. so i went from being that girl to the person who, three to being the person who, three years finished years after i finished cancer treatment , i years after i finished cancer treatment, i actually did complete the london marathon. i mean, to say i it, mean, i want to say i ran it, but would be slightly exaggerate the of the race, the second half of the race, which is much a sort of run which is very much a sort of run walk situation. you know, you can you're a very positive person and you can do the positivity oozes out of you . but positivity oozes out of you. but when you're diagnosed with breast cancer, my goodness , that breast cancer, my goodness, that must take a knock . yes and must take a knock. yes and i think particularly what was what actually . yes. and i just been actually. yes. and i just been elected. i had worked really

hard to get elected and. i was really proud of the fact i'd got elected and i got elected on my mom's birthday. i'm like my mum being labour mp is like, you could not possibly play do anything more to please my mother than being labour. actually be a labour minister. but yeah, it was, it was a shock but also it's a shock that lots of people get every day. and i had great breast cancer nurse, which most people which thankfully most people will have. not everybody . i'd will have. not everybody. i'd like everyone to have breast like everyone to have a breast cancen like everyone to have a breast cancer. that's like i did. and she oh god , i still remember she oh god, i still remember her. she was the person who , her. she was the person who, straight after i had diagnosis, said mark, let's let's take you away. how much of that did you understand? we through understand? should we go through it have think it again? should we have a think about she's the person about it? and she's the person that bring up when you're that you bring up when you're feeling now you are feeling really down now you are a leader of the house. a shadow leader of the house. parliament's not been going through great time . 50 mps at through great time. 50 mps at the time of recording . let's the time of recording. let's hope there's not another one in the next couple of days from

across the parties have had the party whip suspended from them all but two of those in place have been accused personal wrongdoing . many connected to wrongdoing. many connected to things of a sexual nature. of course, several deny the claims . but what's going on here ? well . but what's going on here? well i mean, before what came to parliament as i said, i work with with violent men. so from that professional experience that professional experience that taught me that that you really not always, but it usually happens from a just a feeling of entire torment, a feeling of entire torment, a feeling that you are allowed to do certain things, that you've got the power and you're going to get away with it. now, i think that is changing in parliament because know you said they've been suspended from the party. some of them are not able to come into parliament or have certain restrictions placed on them . and we have a system now. them. and we have a system now. when i first came to parliament, there was no system. we do not

have called the have something called the independent complaints and grievance system. suspect it's grievance system. i suspect it's a confidential system, but i wouldn't be surprised if some of those mps weren't going through an investigation that. but it matters to me that we're showing leadership and as you know, i'm shadow leader of the house at the moment. ever do get to the moment. if i ever do get to be leader of the house and government, one of the things i'd really want to change is build we've got to and build on where we've got to and really improve an really improve setting an example saying that we example and saying that we should the best, the should expect the best, the highest standards of behaviour from our represent steps. people are not going to be perfect people. mps are human beings, but we shouldn't have to tolerate , we shouldn't have to tolerate, we shouldn't have to tolerate, we shouldn't have to tolerate the sort of wrongdoing that puts people in fear , that that puts people in fear, that makes people fearful at work , makes people fearful at work, and that is happening in parliament. it's not most employees. i'm just want to be really clear here. there's 650 of us , but it's too many. really clear here. there's 650 of us , but it's too many . when of us, but it's too many. when there's one, there's too many ones.too

there's one, there's too many ones. too many. we shouldn't expect that from members. i think we should have high standards for our employees and we do have standards. and i want to strengthen those i want to make sure that we can actually deal with people who are treating their staff or members of the public or another mp badly in a really strong way. coming up, more from sangam after the break. how can you not want to laugh when someone says they were ambushed by a cave

when you get elected to parliament. i mean, we're we're women . and you're you're called women. and you're you're called ma'am , which is like the queen. ma'am, which is like the queen. and she's like, goodness, i can't believe i'm called mom. and, you know, people are quite extreme with respect. the listen, even if you've been boring, people listen to you . i boring, people listen to you. i mean, it's not the only job that that's the case . there are there that's the case. there are there are quite a lot of jobs where if you're the head of a big business or a big organisation and you are going to get the same sort of treatment, and i think that carries with it the same increased risk that anyone who thinks lot who already thinks quite a lot of themselves, know, it's of themselves, you know, it's not to everybody. of themselves, you know, it's not know, to everybody. of themselves, you know, it's not know, you to everybody. of themselves, you know, it's not know, you get to everybody. of themselves, you know, it's not know, you get elected oody. of themselves, you know, it's not know, you get elected just. you know, you get elected just because somebody calls you ma'am doesn't turn you into doesn't suddenly turn you into a person who people badly . person who treats people badly. but those few but unfortunately, those few people with an attitude people who come with an attitude or of or already an attitude of entitlement will get that built up as a result of this. and what

you have to do with that is make sure that there are clear rules, clear consequences and real leadership says up leadership which says this is up with we not put how with this. we will not put how we got the clear rules that we need.is we got the clear rules that we need. is it a work in progress? hmm well, i think we've got good rules . could they be stronger? rules. could they be stronger? i'm sure. i mean, i'm of the view that you should only ever strengthen code of conduct strengthen the code of conduct of behaviour for employees. it should get stronger should only ever get stronger and more effective . i can't and more effective. i can't pretend that this is the perfect system because it's not some of the investigations have taken too long. others have not. i do think mps quite often will arrive in parliament having campaigned hard politically without having had enough experience of how to manage a staff team and a budget and conflicting pressures . and most conflicting pressures. and most of your staff live hundreds of miles away from you and you know those are skills which can be learned now. you can learn them or arrive without those or you can arrive without those skills still not your skills and still not bully your staff. you know, staff. like i said, you know, someone could call you ma'am and you treat them you still have to treat them badly. can learn. you can

badly. you can learn. you can ask for help. there are now, again, ways of being helped again, more ways of being helped to better employer in to be a better employer in parliament. i would all parliament. and i would like all employees up. employees to take those up. that's something else i'd like to see more of. and of course, mps in the line of duty can be subject to abuse harassment. i know you had somebody harassing you who was who was jailed. that was back in 2017. have things improved for you ? i think improved for you? i think overall . my experience of being overall. my experience of being an mp is most of my constituents are absolutely lovely. yeah, i had that one case and it it mattered to me because my staff were the ones who are having to pick up the phone really mattered to me to make sure that they were they felt safe . most they were they felt safe. most of the time, i do feel and i think i am very safe as an mp, but there is abuse of mps and we have lost two murder to my

colleagues since i've become an mp . so the wonderful jo cox and mp. so the wonderful jo cox and the wonderful david amess . and the wonderful david amess. and this is a classic example of how party lines sort of dissolve more often than people realise because the sorrow and the grief of both of those people from two very different parties, two very different ideas, a politic , it different ideas, a politic, it was genuine . and i want to think was genuine. and i want to think after jo was murdered, this will never happen again. and then it did . and so i couldn't say it's did. and so i couldn't say it's got better for everyone because david was only murdered really quite recently and it's an incredible . i it's incredible incredible. i it's incredible testimony actually, to jo and the her sister is now the mp , the her sister is now the mp, the her sister is now the mp, the wonderful kim leadbeater. you know , i mean, that's you know, i mean, that's incredible. what resilient, amazing, inspiring family. incredible. what resilient, amazing, inspiring family . and i amazing, inspiring family. and i use kim as an example because i think we cannot let those people who want to frighten us stop us from doing our jobs because

from doing ourjobs because democracy really matters. well, after those murders , the after both those murders, the pubuc after both those murders, the public we will. we are public said we will. we are there for you. and that is the majority of my experience , is majority of my experience, is that most people , even they that most people, even they don't particularly like politicians, they aren't abusive . and i'm proud of the fact that we pull together as a community when that did happen to us . and when that did happen to us. and i am glad to say that i do have some protection. not going to talk about it, obviously, but i wouldn't want to have a political system where i could only go out with security guards . there are countries where that's the only way mps can move around . i go to the same shops around. i go to the same shops as my constituents. i to the as my constituents. i go to the same surgery , i get to chat same gp surgery, i get to chat to people. tell me their to people. people tell me their problems i'm on the way to problems as i'm on the way to buy of milk that really, buy a pint of milk that really, really me. and i've really matters to me. and i've got just trust that there's got to just trust that there's enough respect, even when people disagree . it's easy me to disagree. it's easy for me to say because it's a it's a while since i last had a really serious threat. and i know a lot of people , particularly women

of people, particularly women colleagues, have had a lot worse . finally let's end on a positive note. you often use humour in parliament on those green benches. my goodness, some bonng green benches. my goodness, some boring speeches that go on in that place . go on, give us your that place. go on, give us your best gags . that place. go on, give us your best gags. oh, god , no, no. i best gags. oh, god, no, no. i mean, i think recently i used a craig's david song to illustrate something the government was doing wrong. on monday, they did this on tuesday. they did that on wednesday they did this. i don't to tell you all they don't want to tell you all they did i don't have did on thursday. i don't have it. so i find that there's quite a lot of material to work with. the last year in politics has given us some amazing moments that are sometimes so jaw dropping it's impossible not to turn them into a gag, in my view. i mean, how can you not want to laugh when someone says they ambushed by cane ? so they were ambushed by a cane? so that's there's been plenty amateur thrill. i'd love, actually. now, you've challenged me. i really would like to learn how to just tell a gag. i've never been that good. i've got well from my childhood to two

eggsin well from my childhood to two eggs in a pan being boiled. yeah one says to it, oh, god, it's hot in here, isn't it? the other one says, we actually get outside the bash. you had. i know it's lame, but it's a joke. i was six. hello. how old are you now ? how old are you now? so you now? how old are you now? so you now? how old are you now? so you know , i say , oh, i got that you know, i say, oh, i got that joke has stood the test of time for centuries. every time i was , you've been a joy to see you. lovely to see you. find them, devon. thank you. thanks gloria. join me next sunday at 6 pm. for more political interviews with a different . with a different. hello again. i hope you're enjoying your sunday, but looking ahead weather wise and it's going to remain cold, there'll be snow for some but also quite for some of us, but also quite a bit of winter sunshine to look forward to as the reason forward to as well. the reason forward to as well. the reason

for the cold weather is this area of low pressure to the east of us that's allowing for our winds to come from the north. so cold arctic plunging across cold arctic air plunging across the is why going the uk, which is why it's going to cold. notice this to be so cold. notice this weather waiting out in weather system waiting out in the west that's going to fringe south parts as we go south coastal parts as we go through sunday otherwise through sunday night. otherwise for night, for many through sunday night, yes, some clear yes, there'll be some clear spells, showery rain, spells, also some showery rain, sleet and snow across some northern could to northern parts could lead to something of an ice risk here. and snow showers piling in from the parts of the north across parts of scotland. these totals could build the build up as we go through the night. is going to be a cold night. it is going to be a cold night. it is going to be a cold night the south, some night even in the south, some places falling below freezing could minus ten. could get as low as minus ten. in sheltered parts of in the sheltered parts of scotland, rain, and scotland, the rain, sleet and snow parts southeast snow across parts of southeast could problems early could cause some problems early doors. that will clear away doors. but that will clear away as we go through the morning. otherwise, through monday. as we go through the morning. otherwiseit through monday. as we go through the morning. otherwiseit is through monday. as we go through the morning. otherwiseit is going ugh monday. as we go through the morning. otherwiseit is going t01 monday. as we go through the morning. otherwiseit is going to be onday. for many it is going to be largely with lots of winter largely dry with lots of winter sunshine yes there'll be sunshine around. yes there'll be some east some showers towards the east and of showers and also plenty of showers towards of scotland. and towards parts of scotland. and here gradually to here they are gradually going to be falling as snow. but for many, largely dry with sunny spells. despite that, though, it's than today. it's cold, colder than today. for generally

for most places, generally staying single figures staying in mid single figures celsius little change for many as go through monday evening. as we go through monday evening. and places staying and so most places staying largely continue to largely clear but continue to see snow showers across parts of scotland and then some showery rain, snow starting to rain, sleet and snow starting to push the southwest as we push in from the southwest as we go through the night. need to keep an on this because keep an eye on this because there be some significant there could be some significant snow southwestern snow across some southwestern parts the early parts as we go through the early hours tuesday. it going to hours of tuesday. it is going to be tonight, then this be a cold tonight, then this coming for many could even coming night for many could even get as minus —12, get as low as minus 11 or —12, perhaps in the sheltered plains of scotland through tuesday. then cold, frosty, start then a cold, frosty, icy start for of first thing, for many of us. first thing, watch out for this showery rain, sleet snow southern sleet and snow across southern parts. bit of parts. a little bit of uncertainty how much uncertainty regarding how much snow see, it snow we're going to see, but it is keeping up to date with is worth keeping up to date with that. there'll be further wintry weather go through the weather as we go through the rest the week, drier