hello there. it's 6:00 michelle dewberry. this is dewbs& co the show where we'll get into some of the things that have got us all talking tonight. i just happened actually, the british government have put the foot down and they have blocked scotland's gender recognition reform . bill. that's the one reform. bill. that's the one that allows kids as young as six and to identify as self—identify as an old turner gender without , you know, much in the way of stopping them. many people are outraged by this. many other people think that it is absolutely fabulous. but what i can tell you is the first time in the history of devalue shown that this has happened . i'm

that this has happened. i'm wondering, where do you stand on it? and wondering, where do you stand on it.7 and keir starmer has been speaking out about the nhs . he speaking out about the nhs. he reckons we shouldn't treat it basically like a shrine and that absolutely it needs reform from laboun absolutely it needs reform from labour. the party for the job you told me and oxfam says that the richest 1% of people in britain earn as much as two thirds of the rest of the country. so you think it's a problem? why do you stand on the whole wealth inequality? does everyone have to have the same? do we all have to have a little bit less? let's close the gap, not for so many people not appear for so many people are not there for so many are not down there for so many people. about wealth as people. what about wealth tax as well? be in favour well? would you be in favour of that? if at what point? that? and if so, at what point? when would you kick it in? what kind of tax would it look like and do you think would and what do you think would be the outcome what the the outcome of it? what the benefit be and to whom? i benefit would be and to whom? i want thoughts on that and want your thoughts on that and i have say, home office have to say, the home office minister, robert jenrick, has been little bit of trouble. been in a little bit of trouble. this about language that this is all about language that he's using albanians he's been using about albanians that crossing the

that have been crossing the channel. people concerned channel. many people concerned that are essentially that albanians are essentially becoming bit of a political becoming a bit of a political football. what say you to that? i want all of your thoughts on the above. but first, let's get ourselves speed with ourselves up to speed with tonight's latest headlines . tonight's latest headlines. michelle, thanks very much indeed. michelle, thanks very much indeed . well, some breaking news indeed. well, some breaking news that has come to us in the last half hour. the uk government has decided to block the scottish gender bill designed to make it easier for people to change their legally recognised gender. the bill did allow trans people to obtain a gender recognition certificate without a medical diagnosis. scotland's first minister, nicholas sturgeon, calling such a move an outrage. and the scottish government likely to mount a legal challenge in response. it'll be the first time ministers have used a section 35 order, as it's called , which stops a scottish called, which stops a scottish bill from becoming law . one in

bill from becoming law. one in other news today, the metropolitan police commissioner has apologised to all of david carrick's victims. some of roly has promised action, tweeting the serial sex offender should not have been an officer. earlier baroness casey, who's conducting a police standards review, has urged the home secretary to hold a full inquiry. carrick has pleaded guilty to 49 offences relating to 12 women, including 24 counts of rape. he's due to be sentenced next month. suella braverman has called today a sober day for the police service . it's appalling incident represents a breach of trust . it represents a breach of trust. it will affect people's confidence in the police. and it's clear that standards and culture need to change in policing. and that's why i'm driving forward changes to support the police and to support chief constables around the country. in doing so . and the shadow home secretary,

yvette cooper, has backed baroness casey to call for an inquiry into carrick's case, saying change is needed. this man is a serial rapist who's committed devastating crimes against women. it's tribute to their bravery that he's been caught, that he should never have been a police officer. he should never have been allowed to serve for so long after the appalling murder of sarah everard. the government promised change. yet that has totally failed. there have been no national standard on vetting or conduct in produced, and women have been badly let down. we have been badly let down. we have to have fundamental change. thousands of teachers in england and wales are to go on strike in and wales are to go on strike in a dispute over pay. nine out of ten members of the national education union voted in favour of the action, which will include seven days of walkouts include seven days of walkouts in february and in march. the turnout of 53% means they met the legal threshold to go out on strike. it's despite downing street urging them not to go on

strike and inflict what it called substantial damage on children's education. well, the education secretary gillian keegan, has called the decision disappointing. it's only one union that has voted to go on strike and it's really disappointing with only 53% of their members actually responding. but it is deeply disappointing for parents and children and of course, it will have an impact. it will have an impact on children's education. we all know that during the pandemic, they have had a lot of disruption to their education, and we're still trying to catch up from that . well, in more up from that. well, in more strike news , nurses will walk strike news, nurses will walk out for another two days next month. it says the dispute with the government over pay has failed to reach a resolution. members from the royal college of nursing will strike on the sixth and 7th of february with more workers set to take part than in last month's action. nurses at 55 across in england are planning to strike this wednesday and thursday. but next

month could include union members from 73 trusts and nhs providers have called the announcement very worrying . the announcement very worrying. the foreign office has confirmed a british man is among one of the passengers who died in a plane crash in nepal. passengers who died in a plane crash in nepal . 72 people were crash in nepal. 72 people were on board the yet airlines flight from the capital, kathmandu , due from the capital, kathmandu, due to pokhara. the death toll has risen to 68. officials say the black box and the cockpit voice recorder have now been recovered . and the foreign office says they're in contact with the local authorities as well as supporting the man's family. it's nepal's worst plane crash . it's nepal's worst plane crash. in 30 years. the government plans to send asylum seekers through rwanda is to be challenged in the court of appeal. that comes after the high court granted an appeal against its own ruling last month. they said the scheme was lawful. campaigners are still saying it's a cruel policy that will cause great human suffering . no date has been yet set for

the court of appeal hearing . the court of appeal hearing. jeremy clarkson says he's emailed an apology to the duke and duchess of sussex for saying he hated meghan. in a newspaper column, clarkson posted a statement online saying he'd emailed the couple saying his language had been disgraceful and that he was profoundly sorry. in the statement, he added that itv and amazon , which added that itv and amazon, which airs who wants to be a millionaire and the grand tour, two of his programmes were in cannes decent following his column . his cannes decent following his column. his comments cannes decent following his column . his comments sparked column. his comments sparked a backlash as well, with around 25,000 complaints being made to the press regulator. and 25,000 complaints being made to the press regulator . and lastly, the press regulator. and lastly, the press regulator. and lastly, the uk health security agency has issued a severe cold alert in response to arctic conditions due to sweep across the whole of the uk in the next 24 hours. the met office issuing a yellow warning for snow and ice across northern england. northwestern england, that is northern ireland and the north of wales.

by ireland and the north of wales. by midday tomorrow we understand snow already affecting northern scotland and it'll be there till wednesday and there's an ice warning in place now for southwest england. devon and cornwall overnight wrap up all. that's it. you're up to date on tv, online and dab, plus radio is back now to dewbs& co . is back now to dewbs& co. thanks for that. well, i'm michelle dewberry and i'm with you through till 7:00 tonight, alongside me here in the studio. i've got my panel, the writer and broadcaster dominique samuels, alongside to samuels, and alongside us to john mcternan, the political strategist and a former adviser to good evening , to tony blair. good evening, both you. happy new year to both of you. happy new year to you. yeah you know the drill, don't you want dewbs & co? it's don't you want dewbs& co? it's not just about us three here in the studio. it's about you at home as well. what's on your mind tonight? you can get in

touch with all the usual touch with me. all the usual ways. email, which views. ways. email, which is gb views. gbnews.uk tweet me at gbnews.uk or you can tweet me at news as you just been news and as you just been heanng news and as you just been hearing the walls, indeed, breaking news tonight, the british has decided british government has decided to scotland's what some to block scotland's what some would say is controversial changes to the gender recognition reform bill. it was basically a bill, if you've not been following it, which means that kids as young as 16 can self—identify to be the opposite genden self—identify to be the opposite gender. the scottish nationalists said that any attempts to block it would be, i quote , an outrage. john, you are quote, an outrage. john, you are indeed yourself. scottish where do you stand on this ? well do you stand on this? well i think it is absolutely right that the uk government shows that the uk government shows that it that the uk government shows thatitis that the uk government shows that it is in charge that the devolved parliaments, scotland is not independent. it's not an independent country. if you pass a law which conflicts with uk law , the government has the law, the government has the right to come in. i also think it's very interesting that the snp have been unable to persuade the public in scotland polling .

the public in scotland polling. recent polling shows that at the end of this big debate it's got massive public debate in scotland. the public are 2 to 1 and 3 to 1 against the major proposals that the snp have passed. so it's interesting they want pick a fight on this want to pick a fight on this because they're not going to that the public, that popular with the public, i suspect this. in the suspect over all of this. in the end , this a policy that end, this is a policy that theresa may initially came up with and the scottish government have carried on doing the same thing as the uk government is the uk tory government have changed and decided not to make this it's a very minor this change. it's a very minor change. only people in change. only 30 people in scotland year applied for scotland last year applied for gender recognition certificates and it may that that number may increase to over 100 or so, but it is for a very small number of people, some of those vulnerable people, some of those vulnerable people, a country is a sensible and modest reform, which why and modest reform, which is why theresa it. so when theresa may was for it. so when theresa may was for it. so when theresa may was for it. so when theresa may and nicholas sturgeon agree, i kind of go, well, agree with both well, i probably agree with both of about making change. of you about making this change. well, initially well, theresa may was initially correct i'm wrong, i think correct me if i'm wrong, i think she was initially in favour of

it. talks about it, i don't it. she talks about it, i don't think correct me again if i'm wrong, it was in the wrong, that it was in the manifesto. so is all about manifesto. so this is all about 2017. all kind of it was the 2017. it all kind of it was the year 2017 government were it year 2017 government were for it and there's still and didn't and there's still some then they have the some some and then they have the consultation then the uk consultation and then the uk government to government decided not to progress they make progress with it. they did make tweaks, they reduce tweaks, for example, they reduce the gender recognition the cost of a gender recognition certificate, they went as certificate, but they went as a government, as a uk government, they weren't in favour the they weren't in favour of the proposals. it's at this stage in the first government proposals have gone a have gone have gone in a particular direction. i think that they are right and humane for who are able to for trans people who are able to have had to wait to actually waiting for treatment . a massive waiting for treatment. a massive a massive waiting list for gender reassignment surgery . gender reassignment surgery. there's all kinds of issues involved in the and i think this is going to mean this going is going to mean this is going to be an interesting battle where the scottish government are of touch with the are out of touch with the scottish public and the uk tory government are in touch with the scottish public . and who's going scottish public. and who's going to win the battle between represented? so they speak for

scotland indeed and we've just actions responded to this. i'll come back to the second on that. but dominic, what's your thoughts on that? i think it's completely right that this has happened. agree with what happened. i agree with what was just about governments just said about the governments of leadership of asserting its leadership here, because if there is a bill that it deems incompatible with the laws that we make in westminster, i think it's only right that it's blocked. but my personal thoughts on the bill itself, think it's a itself, i think it's a disgusting bill as a woman. i think it's a dangerous bill. they rejected many provisions that would seek to protect women and vulnerable children. really against sexual predators . and against sexual predators. and it's funny, the any concern about this is painted as transphobic and a lot of the time it's men really don't see an issue with this . and, of an issue with this. and, of course, a lot of men that seem to be on the left don't have an issue with this because these issues all disappear , issues all disappear, passionately affect women . when

passionately affect women. when we're talking about trans people , we're talking about over 70% of these trans people who are biological males. so that means they're going to be wanting to access female spaces . you've got access female spaces. you've got sex offenders. the well and have exploited our existing laws here to be able to enter in female prisons . and this issue will prisons. and this issue will only get worse. and scotland and the argument about it only being a small number of people that may be true. but as this is being this whole being popularised, this whole idea can and idea that you can pick and choose your gender and it's being spread to kids , those being spread to kids, those numbers saying that numbers of people saying that they gender they have issues of gender identity have steadily increased. i mean, just at increased. i mean, just look at the scandal with the tavistock clinic. really do praise clinic. so i really do praise the government for taking this step . do you are you in favour step. do you are you in favour of the changes , the bill that of the changes, the bill that was passed? would you support , was passed? would you support, for example, sturgeon and what she was trying to do? yeah, i'm broadly in favour of what the scottish government have passed. are yeah. so you have are you? yeah. so do you have any concerns? because i'm not just cards on the

just to put my cards on the table, not in favour of it. table, i'm not in favour of it. i side with a lot of what dominic just think to dominic just said. i think to allow child , you know, of allow a child, you know, of course, trans people they course, trans people exist. they should absolutely be treated with i feel with dignity, care. i do feel like to add that caveat, like i need to add that caveat, but to say to someone, just a 16 year old child, you can now just change your gender with no real checks and balances as long as you just it. and i put out on the call yourself showering or whatever for a few weeks in scotland you can your scotland you can change your genden scotland you can change your gender. that has huge gender. i think that has huge ramifications doesn't ramifications and it doesn't have safeguards . 16 year old have the safeguards. 16 year old children or adults in the health service in scotland and in england, 16 year old. when a child becomes 16, they're making their own decisions. my child at 16, for example, in this country , you can't even get a lifelong tattoo. i know. and i think that i i'm personally opposed to the scottish government policy of giving 16 year olds the vote because they ban them for sunbeds as well. so we've got a vote. we've got very confused view about adulthood in the uk ,

view about adulthood in the uk, but for the health services it's been for a very long time. at the age of 16 you you are the age of 16 you can you are independent from your parents in terms of making decisions about your i don't the your health, but i don't see the system for that. and that's for me, that's that's why that's the one that some people are focusing on. for 30 focusing on. i think for 30 people, 30 people who are probably some of the most unhappy people in scotland to change this and to make our foster think that's foster process, i think that's actually a benefit for people. what is it actually achieving for people as younger? 16 because when we talk about health issues, we're not talking about go into the doctor because you know , you've got a bit of you know, you've got a bit of acid reflux or something. we're talking about lifelong and irreversible changes that these people want to make to their bodies and to their hormones and a lot of this this is a popular but a lot of these issues stem from mental health. the idea of not feeling as though your mind and your body are in sync with each other. and a lot of the time when these issues are

investigated and we've seen the rise of detransition as as well, many of them wanting to sue the people that were so ready to allow them to make these lifelong changes. what they found is when they actually make these changes to their body, they're still not happy. so i think first thing that we think the first thing that we should with of should be doing with all of these people, people happy these people, make people happy is investigate the is to is to investigate what the issue is mentally first before you start wanting to pump people with and have them with hormones and have them surgically remove the genitalia . the like, i think i think . so the like, i think i think i think you're absolutely right. the people's personal individual needs need to be dealt with and the whole person needs to be looked at. there's massive waiting lists in scotland for access to mental health services, access to psychological like psychological support like health services. one of the things the snp spend the time and on is trying to pick and effort on is trying to pick fights uk government, fights with the uk government, not to make life better not trying to make life better for people in scotland and there's something there are across between across scotland is between i think it's 3 to 5 years waiting for gender reassignment

treatment . so this for gender reassignment treatment. so this is for gender reassignment treatment . so this is the change treatment. so this is the change in the certificates . something in the certificates. something does need to be done about the waiting. something needs to be done about the access to mental health services and i do think it's a very small number of people who are some of the most unhappy , picked on people in the unhappy, picked on people in the whole of our country. and i think that the use of trans people as a political football by some of the people in the debate in scotland and not seeing it. and this this this discussion, i think is respectful of all the complex perspectives here. is i think, a bad thing. i don't think it can be good for people. so i'm not from point view. i agree from that point of view. i agree with nicholas sturgeon that the people and people who abuse children and the people assault women by people who abuse children and the large; assault women by people who abuse children and the large are assault women by people who abuse children and the large are men. ault women by people who abuse children and the large are men. hetero men by people who abuse children and the large are men. hetero sexual! and large are men. hetero sexual men. they're not, i think for me the bit that i found a bit shorter because i do believe shorter is because i do believe that are lots not that there are lots well, not lots.i that there are lots well, not lots. i do believe that there is a small, tiny, probably minority of have you know, of people who do have you know, a medical condition, gender dysphoria or whatever want dysphoria or whatever you want to as and i just

to label it as and i just therefore don't understand why they've removed that because if what you're trying to do is protect that protect genuine people that are trans, would remove that trans, why would you remove that aspect because it's aspect of it? because it's logical them. see about logical for them. you see about nicholas sturgeon and i'm interested in this angle it. interested in this angle to it. and sturgeon responded and nicholas sturgeon responded to she says the to this on twitter. she says the following this is a direct quote from nicholas sturgeon this is a full frontal attack on our democratically elected scottish parliament and its ability to make its own decisions on devolved matters. the scottish government will defend the legislation and stand up for scotland's parliament if this westminster veto succeeds , it westminster veto succeeds, it will be the first of many . now will be the first of many. now i sense it's very obvious that this is now going to become john, because there's loads of people are actually quite frankly, i haven't even read into what this bill be don't really care and see their emotion is stronger about scottish independence that it is this particular issue when you see this section 45 been

invoked, this is actually devolution working as it should as the constitution is defined and as everyone has signed up to . but this is now going to be weaponised to say to a number of scottish people believe in independence, see, see, look at what westminster do. they were overruling you. well and actually they're just following that process. do you think this will become a tool, a that process. do you think this will become a tool , a benefit will become a tool, a benefit for the people at one independent? i thought i thought the wording that nicholas sturgeon had in that tweet is very, very interesting. if she thought a legal basis thought she had a legal basis for challenging the uk government, she'd be saying in that tweet we're taking this that tweet, we're taking this case to the supreme court. we'll see in court. she didn't say see you in court. she didn't say that. it into that. she's making it into a grievance, fight, because grievance, a fight, because i think she understands that think she she understands that the are there and because the powers are there and because she you can make decisions on devolved issues. but some issues which do impact on equality , which do impact on equality, equality law is uk wide. you can't make decisions that impact on it. and i suspect that the tory government likes government, which is probably the irish government. i've got

some strong advice. her some strong legal advice. her attempt to do this is also deaung attempt to do this is also dealing with her own party. a lot things that nicholas lot of things that nicholas sturgeon party sturgeon does about party management party is split management. her party is split on this issue. some senior figures john cherry , who's figures like john cherry, who's an here , joanna cherry an mp down here, joanna cherry was she was forced to be not able to stand for a parliamentary seat in the scottish parliament because she is critical of this legislation. nicholas sturgeon doesn't want to be opposed. alec salmond and his independence party broke away. they opposed these regulate this issue split the snp, you know, with two and 3 to 3, you know , two in one, 3 to 1 3, you know, two in one, 3 to 1 opposition in scotland for these for these moves a lot of snp voters are against this. a lot of snp members and i think this is attempt of diversion and it's a shame nicholas sturgeon want defend the policy so clearly she's worried that she's got no legal footing for this and the scotland the uk government are in the right and maybe it would be better if within the first four or five years of the

parliament this had been done before. but the scottish government would stopped by government would be stopped by the supreme court for doing things outside the things are outside the parliament. powers also parliament. the powers are also dominic so you said it's not unlimited. the not unlimited at all and i found it will be fascinating to see what this is going to get galvanised, isn't it, as a weapon for anyone that's basically if you're even teetering on the edge of independence, you're not quite sure because it is split really, isn't it, scotland about half and depending the poll. and half depending on the poll. it to be weaponised it is going to be weaponised now, isn't it? yeah, most definitely. but i think this using this legislation as sort of a battering ram for independence, i think was the wrong call. i think nicholas sturgeon at this point is a bit drunk on power. i can sense with the way she's behaved with this acting like a tyrant even within our own party with regard to this legislation, lord only knows why she so hellbent on it, but i have a feeling it's really not going to attract more people to the independent cause if these are the sorts of decisions

that she's going to be churning out. yeah. are you in scotland, by the way, tonight? if you are , what do you think of the goings on of the last few months this evening? the response from sturgeon ? are you someone that's sturgeon? are you someone that's followed this bill and you feel passionately about it? i someone on the other side couldn't care less, quite frankly, what the bill go with the bill is. but you'll go with the sturgeon line, which i'm not sturgeon line, which is i'm not even at westminster getting involved ngos. tell involved and overrule ngos. tell me gb views gb me your thoughts. gb views a gb news darts uk. let's have a look at some you are saying at what some of you are saying at what some of you are saying at though, we? right at home though, shall we? right now, been in such now, john, he's been in such cases acting section 35, the cases by acting section 35, the government, uk government is rightly acting within its constitutional rights. it is called democracy . that's exactly called democracy. that's exactly the kind of point that i was just making there. let me know if you agree, jim . the if you agree, jim. the government for once has its spot on. but it's not just this the entire idea that you can become a man or a woman just because you want to is, in jim's view, stupid and dangerous . david, stupid and dangerous. david, i agree with the block by the uk

governments. i recently applied for a job and within that one question i was asked to confirm genden question i was asked to confirm gender. the option was male and it also includes trans male. it was the same gender for gender of women. scots the blocking of the scottish gender recognition bill is a win win for the scottish and depends cause it was a terrible bill that puts women at risk. now, i've got to say this view here is one that's getting a lot of interest as well, maria said. it's a relief that rishi has finally come off the fence to support women's rights and oppose gender rights and oppose the gender recognition bill in scotland . recognition bill in scotland. warren what a ridiculous law that the work scottish government were trying to bring in. a lot of young people have regretted the life changing decision that they'd made only 16 years of age . and as we were 16 years of age. and as we were just talking about, it was theresa may back in 2017. she was on that kind of on that both , if you like, that direction. but it wasn't in the manifesto. corbyn at the time, if you

remember, he was saying that he agreed with it and he would have helped get it through. starmer he was saying some interesting things at the weekend. he was basically have basically saying, i have concerns about the provision in scotland in particular the age reduction to 16, and in particular the rejection of our amendment in relation to the equalities act . when he was equalities act. when he was posh, specifically about 16, being able to change your genden being able to change your gender, he said , no, he doesn't gender, he said, no, he doesn't think you are old enough to do so at 60. what do you think ? i so at 60. what do you think? i want your thoughts. gb views . want your thoughts. gb views. gbnews.uk and i've just finished on starmer and i'm going to start on it after the break. he says the nhs s is it needs to be treated as a service, not as a shrine. and he says it has to be reformed. goodness me. i mean some people have been shouting that for years and months and all the rest of it. anyway, i'll leave to the ones for the job. you tell me and i'll see you into .

hello there . welcome back to hello there. welcome back to michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 this evening alongside the writer and the broadcaster, dominique samuels , and also john dominique samuels, and also john mc tan and the political strategist and former adviser to tony blair. if you've just tuned in, you just missed us discussing that break kind of update to the story. the gender reform bill over in scotland . reform bill over in scotland. the uk government are going to intervene for the first time in the history of that devolution. section 35 will be invoked. it's split opinions, i've got to say. i'm more i'm really interested . i'm more i'm really interested. if you are in scotland , i want if you are in scotland, i want to hear from you. catherine says basically this was all false through it was way too quick. shouldn't have happened. jennifer says . i'm a 73 year old jennifer says. i'm a 73 year old scottish woman, and i am extremely unhappy and needs in scotland to be continually ignored because of the snp's one pony policy in dependence. where

do you stand on, particularly if you're in scotland ? you're in scotland? vaiews@gbnews.uk is the email address . i vaiews@gbnews.uk is the email address. i have to vaiews@gbnews.uk is the email address . i have to say vaiews@gbnews.uk is the email address. i have to say i was talking about keir starmer just before the break, which leads me nicely to my next story because keir starmer has been speaking out the weekend , particularly out of the weekend, particularly around the national health service , saying not service, saying if it's not reformed, it's going to die. he says it's going to tackle a bureaucratic nonsense that's holding the nhs back and we've come with a very well not way come up with a very well not way they come up with a variety they have come up with a variety of suggestions as to how they're going john, you going to do it. john, you advised tony blair, you know , advised tony blair, you know, hey, we've got this potential prime minister in waiting. some people are calling him. what did you what he said? he's you make to what he said? he's created a variety of created some a variety of different suggestions as to what he would do to reform the nhs. did you agree with him? well, i thought the big thing was he wrote for the sunday wrote an article for the sunday telegraph. he did for the guardian . so he went to a place guardian. so he went to a place that some labour party members have been that's that's offensive to even go to the

telegraph. so that was good. go to there. and thought he also to there. and i thought he also he's nhs can't be a he's right the nhs can't be a sacred cow. it's got to change because technology has changed ways of treatment of changed lifestyles, change. people have changed. and i think he's right to say and it's a very blairite message, actually. he's saying you need reform. and tony always said the health service does need more money. they need more money after margaret thatcher and major. but also and john major. but he also needs reform. he brought needs reform. and he brought tony brought in the private sector almost immediately in 1997, in private 1997, brought in the private sectors to operations. and i think that kind of thinking the keir been exposing in keir starmer been exposing in the way wes streeting has the way that wes streeting has been is, is suggests been talking is, is suggests that he wants to talk to the pubuc that he wants to talk to the public and not the party. and i think the most important think that's the most important thing political thing in a political conversation. got to conversation. and you've got to involve whole country in involve the whole country in this because people do not think that is working. and if that the nhs is working. and if the people think system the people think the system working, you've got to have a plan fixing it and it's not plan for fixing it and it's not got to be just more money, it's

got to be just more money, it's got to be a different way of doing want to come doing things. but i want to come back in a lot of that book back to in a lot of that book first, when i hear from dominic, yeah, i was really surprised by this, actually. think this is this, actually. i think this is a astute thing to do a very astute thing to do from keir starmer because suggests keir starmer because it suggests that listened to that he's actually listened to what country saying what the country is saying and what the country is saying and what say we can week on this what we say we can week on this panel , many others what we say we can week on this panel, many others is that we treat the nhs as though it's a religion. any criticism of or suggestion of change or the use of the private sector , you're of the private sector, you're screamed and told that you want to privatise the nhs . we're not to privatise the nhs. we're not state when you look up many european countries, they have a quasi private insurance system, whereas heavily subsidise by the government. but the risks of the private sector role that it plays , whether or not this will plays, whether or not this will actually material lies, i don't know. i'm very sceptical because often we're given a choice between the conservatives and labour and me personally. i'm a bit disillusioned through it all

because i look at the state of the countries in and i'm wondering what difference either of them have made and to be honest. well, what do you think the home do you think the labour party would be the ones to get a hold of nhs and quite hold of the nhs and quite frankly out? you frankly sort it out? john you were saying a second ago about for of change. one for example, lots of change. one of things that you of the first things that you mentioned technology. now my mentioned was technology. now my background as it happens, is technology. particularly technology. it's particularly its transformation its digital transformation programme. now one of the things that we have, you know, external consultants are delivering, it rolled out example there's a really famous case study and you know, probably the one that i'm going to refer to. and it was in the history of the labour governments and it was one of, if not some might say, the worst i.t. failing project, none in the public sector and it was all about trying to reform the nhs, using technology . it completely using technology. it completely bombed . it cost the taxpayer, bombed. it cost the taxpayer, depending on who's reports you believe , anywhere between believe, anywhere between 6 billion. and some people say up to 20 billion. and it makes me

kind of worry and wonder whether or not the labour party are the ones to do it because in wales, for example , the nhs that was for example, the nhs that was been under the control, the governance of the labour party for 20 plus years, and it's in about state, some would say it's in a west , then the english nhs. in a west, then the english nhs. so if starmer has got all these ideas and he is the party to fix it all, why don't you use the welsh nhs as the kind of guinea pig welsh nhs as the kind of guinea pig if you like your demonstration platform , here's demonstration platform, here's how we're going to fix and how we're going to fix it. and at election we can all at the next election we can all look welsh nhs and go look at welsh labour nhs and go see. they didn't just have slogans , they turned the welsh slogans, they turned the welsh labour nhs around . the first labour nhs around. the first thing that the welsh labour party in government did devolution was made a big decision and there's been they've been backed by the voters ever since . they made a voters ever since. they made a big decision not to small but not to close small cottage hospitals . they decided to have hospitals. they decided to have a quite a distributed system which had small small hospitals

over. which had small small hospitals over . that which had small small hospitals over. that means there's a lot of costs in your hospitals, not in other parts of health service. think i think that service. i think i think that drove whole of the way drove a whole lot of the way that they've been managing the health wales since health service in wales since then. not the english then. that's not the english model. we have big district general hospitals. when i talk about was partly about technology, i was partly thinking about the fact that i can remember as primary school can remember as a primary school kid, heart transplant kid, the first heart transplant in the when that happened in the world when that happened and now any every local hospital in england can do a heart and lung transplant. so there's a lot of technology starts as innovative and then becomes very distributed. so some of it's cancer treatment, some of it is i'm not the other technology i often think about the health services . if you if you why why services. if you if you why why do you have to go to a hospital for an x—ray? why can't a gp surgery do x raying that they would free up a whole load of people from going into a&e and going into into hospitals. there's all kinds of ways of breaking up the tasks like i think you're i think you're

right. it's a big, complicated system. the nhs , we'd always say system. the nhs, we'd always say on the labour party side, trust the labour party because we founded it. then one comes why the welsh nhs , the beacon. then the welsh nhs, the beacon. then because we have, we've given the welsh nhs to the people of wales, the scotland nhs, but the people of scotland, it's the, it's the welsh labour party. you carlo ponti, they'll run the country, it's keir starmer in the labour party and the the uk labour party and the uk labour party is going to run the health service we have in health service that we have in uk we need a lot of change uk and we need a lot of change in in the hospitals. we need a lot of change in primary care. a lot of change in primary care. a lot of change in primary care. a lot of change. i think the balance between pharmacists and local doctors . well i don't local doctors. well i don't think it does that there is reform the key has been talking about so where a lot of frustrations are at the moment getting access to an appointment, access a appointment, getting access to a gp. we've what the gp. but we've seen what the pharmacist did in the vaccine rollout, they can do much rollout, they can do a much bigger role doing tasks that bigger role in doing tasks that at moment you to go to at the moment you have to go to at the moment you have to go to a gp for. i've got to say it still don't with why

still don't wash with me. why labour the party? they're labour or the party? they're going to sort the nhs out. why welsh nhs in the west lots welsh nhs is in the west in lots of and the english one. but of ways and the english one. but anyway, if i was anyway, i'll move on. if i was a medical specialist, my bottom would clenching when i had would be clenching when i had this like someone was this stuff like someone was saying and tell you for saying and i'll tell you for why. of the things that he why. one of the things that he says would bring in would be says he would bring in would be allow bypass gp's to allow patients to bypass gp's to make self the suspicious. if i was a specialist, i've already got a waiting list as long as ten of my arms. now all random . ten of my arms. now all random. i've got a bad back. i know what i've got a bad back. i know what ineed i've got a bad back. i know what i need to do. i need to go see a doctor. abc i'm going to reform your work, your workload now has probably and then some because people can do itself self—determine who they need to see. yeah i was thinking that because surely you're just transferring the problem and actually making the problem greater when you might think you need physio, when you don't need physio. so but i suppose common sense would say that there would be some sort of filtering

process before that. it wouldn't be just is this number call it up like there would be some sort of process, maybe it could be using the nhs up, you know , a using the nhs up, you know, a questionnaire online or something like that. i don't know. it sounds a bit weird to me. would that be a process they most of the referrals to consultants are with people with long term conditions and people have long term conditions, know what they've got. i've got the arthritis of arthritis since i was my early onset arthritis was in my early onset arthritis of the anybody with long term conditions knows when they need to see the specialist. but what they have to do is go see a gp. you put in extra, you put extra bureaucratic cost in there. there will undoubtedly be some kind of but in the kind of triaging. but in the american system , where american system, where the american system, where the american works the american system works within the continental system, where it works australian system , works in the australian system, where people, people where it works, people, people have a gynaecologist, people have a gynaecologist, people have have a gynaecologist, have women have a gynaecologist, people dermatology just people have a dermatology just people have a dermatology just people have a specialist, have

the and the relationship with and we have our system, our system was it it created during the it was it was created during the war. just after the war. legislates just after the war. legislates just after the war. and in the bones of it is a rationing idea. join the queue and this is will be rationed. we are very state controlled and i think we need. we should trust people more. give them more of more rooms to get in. and as as as as dominic the hope as as dominic said, the hope that there will be forms of getting information that you can use to go. what she i don't know she needs see a gp and you should see a pharmacist for this one or i don't don't mean to one or i don't i don't mean to be rude right. in general be rude right. in the general pubuc be rude right. in the general public outlet. yeah. so public free outlet. yeah. so i don't mean insult people but don't mean to insult people but when heard some of reason when i heard some of the reason that people are nine nine, i'm sure i do the day someone ringing 999 to ask something about a pizza shop being closed. so i had a story. a paramedic did the day described ambulance is a 24 hour uber lance's criticising people calling them for all reason so you give the great british public a lot more credit than i do when it comes

referring themselves to the right place. it's a waste of yours, gb news viewers. well, yours, gb news viewers. well, you tell , me at home then. am i you tell, me at home then. am i being harsh to you? are you shouting cv calling me names, thinking i'm being a bit rude? you tell me gb views at gbnews.uk. going to take quick gbnews.uk. going to take a quick break. come back, i want break. when we come back, i want some your thoughts on that some of your thoughts on that last topic. i also want to last topic. but i also want to talk to you wealth talk to you about wealth inequality. apparently the top 1% earn more 1% of british people earn more than seven. 2% of those at the bottom. does that matter? and if so, what do you want to do about that? you tell me and i'll see you into .

hello there. welcome back to dewbs& co with me michelle dewberry keeping you company right through till 7:00 tonight. the rights to rights and broadcaster dominique samuels is alongside me, as is john return and the political strategist and former adviser . that's tony former adviser. that's tony blair. welcome back, everybody

if you've just tuned in, where have you been? what have you been doing that was more important to important than listening to a story? get into the day's affairs. you've missed is talking about the section 25 been invoked uk been invoked by the uk government to and stop the government to try and stop the gender reforms over in scotland . and you've just missed us talking about keir starmer's plans to reform the nhs . lots of plans to reform the nhs. lots of you. i've been in touch about that one, bernard says starmer is all rhetoric. he's got no idea how to fix it all. he's struggling to write the labour party. anthony says the first thing to do is basically to fire the incompetent and overpaid managers who are sucking the funds from the nhs. is primary purpose. angela says bringing back matron once would be a good start. hopes that hear that from you guys a lot mel i think make a good point mel you say it's who really wants to reform the nhs . they must sit down and nhs. they must sit down and listen to the nurses on the ward in the community the paramedics, the gp's except for all the

ground staff. i agree with you, patricia. it says oh this is priceless isn't it. ask or a stump, ask on a stone wall. what am apparently in some regards he has actually was just going through some of them. he's going to give britain back the nhs . to give britain back the nhs. he's going to allow you to make self referrals to specialists. personally, i think it will be an absolute disaster. you've seen the state of the nhs and how people self—refer there, haven't you? but maybe i'm being a bit harsh. i'm sure you'll tell if you think i am. and tell me if you think i am. and also he's going to take back control is going to take control as if i didn't know any better. i'm saying this is a thing i'm not saying this is a thing at but sometimes i think at all, but sometimes i think it's in there it's dominic cummings in there advising starmer. wish advising keir starmer. i wish some of it wouldn't do, but he's a very good strategist. it's a very good strategist. but i just some of all this rhetoric that we're going to take back control, going you control, we're going to give you back as a flag. he's back your nhs as a flag. he's playing to yeah, he's playing to win. yeah it would be a terrible

thing for the labour party to say they only the only party who can give you back control were the conservative party . people the conservative party. people do want control, people do want to in charge of their to be more in charge of their lives and labour's to be for lives and labour's got to be for that, you know there's bits of old which saying old socialism which are saying the government always knows best. starmer's right best. but keir starmer's right to i can. barry in wigan to say no, i can. barry in wigan is shouting on he's is shouting on a sofa. he's sitting there going, okay, it's time. i really believed about taking back control. to taking back control. i want to spend as it did toronto spend as long as it did toronto over time, democratic over time, that democratic referendum, and referendum, the brexit wall and you working. i don't you be all working. i don't know. not that kind of worms know. i'm not that kind of worms because look at the time it flies doesn't move on. flies doesn't it? let's move on. oxfam released a on oxfam has released a report on the of world economic the eve of the world economic forum. do this year. forum. they do this every year. long story short, it basically shows how the gap is between shows how big the gap is between the that don't the wealthy and those that don't want % apparently embrace want% apparently embrace a wealthier two thirds of the country. does it matter? i'm yeah, i think it does matter. i think too often issues of gross wealth inequality are made a strictly left right issue to the

right is sort of a caricature in itself in terms of it's like, oh , you know, we should be able to earn as much as we want on the free market. but the fact the current market, we have right now, isn't that free. and then the left like tax the billionaires and they seem to think was this there's this massive pot of money that we can just extract from billionaires and all of a sudden it's going to make everything okay. i'm a bit in the middle i think the idea of the in times of recession, for example , that is recession, for example, that is because, you know, there's no money left and we all need to be prudent and suffice with our energy bills rising, our food rising and having our wages not rising and having our wages not rising in line with inflation , rising in line with inflation, that we should all just have to deal with that. but personally, for me , you know, it's obvious for me, you know, it's obvious that it's not that there's no money left . it's that money has money left. it's that money has been transferred somewhere else. and weapons are explicit in. the well, i don't know if i was reading a statistic that said

billionaires are billionaires. as wealth has risen more in 20 in the 24 months of covid 19 than they had in 23 years combined. you've got big pharma companies allowed to rake in profits and avoid tax . even we profits and avoid tax. even we were going to talk about green energy and we decided not to. but even the offshore wind companies, you know how we're told that green energy is the future going to so, so future is going to be so, so cheap. meanwhile all the offshore companies have offshore wind companies have been the been pooh poohing the government's green contract designed to get energy prices down and have instead opted for the free market where they can rip taxpayers off and rake in billions. that to me, not firm. we be able say that no we should be able to say that no matter side of aisle matter what side of the aisle you're on, thomas tannin, where do look, i. i do you stand? oh, look, i. i think it's right that we have more tax on wealth , on unearned more tax on wealth, on unearned wealth. there's the most of the wealth. there's the most of the wealth has been generated in this report. i find that is really going to people who own property. then the larger amount

of property or land or property buildings that you own, the more that will come to you. and the biggest unearned wealth in the country is, you know , most, country is, you know, most, most, most people earn i've earned a lot more if they bought a house in the nineties from owning a house than they have from working or working in the jobs that they've got. there's something called margaret thatcher. understood that. margaret understood margaret thatcher understood that you need fair access to property. that's why she did right to buy like so many working class become owners of a house for the first time in their generation that transfer of assets from the state to working people gave them a capital windfall that's given them independence , ability to them independence, ability to set back control for the decades since the right to buy. so i think where there is a windfall of wealth which there has been because the historically low interest rates and since the in the last decade basically there should be a windfall tax some kind of wealth tax . so would you

kind of wealth tax. so would you apply that to margaret ? i might apply that to margaret? i might be watching that. bought a house in the nineties to quote your example. this house example. she bought this house in don't know, in the nineties. i don't know, say 50 grand, whatever. say like 50 grand, whatever. i'd be with numbers. and be sitting with my numbers. and now house, she's now margaret's house, she's sitting gb news. sitting in watching gb news. it's one. and a half it's worth one. and a half million. would you tax margaret on a primary home? no, the. the argument for the tax is being introduced as the is the 5% tax on the wealthiest. and i think that 5% tax on the wealth, the wealthiest could get us the kind of money that we need in britain to have a fairer distribution. i think what what dominic was saying is in tune with where the pubuc saying is in tune with where the public are, which is that some of issues are unfairness, of the issues are unfairness, aren't or right. they're aren't left or right. they're actually british of actually just british values of fairness. have fairness. and some people have got far away. so it's like got too far away. so it's like you're at the beginning you're saying at the beginning of we to kind of of the show, we need to kind of we need to close that gap little bit. and that's the british wealth. we'll tell you i'll wealth. and we'll tell you i'll tell not fair, how tell you what's not fair, how fast flies . you're having fast time flies. you're having fun i've got a lot more fun because i've got a lot more talent to dominate , a lot more. talent to dominate, a lot more. so on that topic, you guys erm

do but going to come back do too. but going to come back after the break. the home office minister robert has been in trouble for the way that he's been talking about albanians. apparently this is all becoming a bit of a political football, verbal lynchings, etcetera have been what is portrayed . why do been what is portrayed. why do you stand by it? tell me and i'll see you into .

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry . this is dewbs& co and i'm back with you till 7:00 tonight alongside the writer and broadcaster dominique samuels and all that, john mccain and the political strategist and former adviser to tony blair. we've just been talking about wealth tax. let's have a look at what you guys have got to say on that. at home, beverly says , no, that. at home, beverly says, no, we should not have a wealth tax if that happens. all our millionaires will move away . we millionaires will move away. we should reduce inheritance tax

and increase the amount before tax to 2 million, says bev. well, increase the amount and generally before tax. i just mean inheritance . i would get mean inheritance. i would get rid of inheritance tax altogether. if you ask me, i'm going back to that whole situation about devolved administrations. it would be absurd, says alan, if a devolved administration had the power to pass laws which impinge on existing uk laws . well, of existing uk laws. well, of course matters are devolved. some are reserved and this is devolution working. if you ask me, the it should. but i know that you guys are you split. steve says , i live in scotland steve says, i live in scotland and this bill is an affront to women's rights and safety, not just in scotland but in the uk. forget the snp outrage and stand up for women. you go, you tell me your thoughts. moving on. the albanian foreign minister is accused by the home office minister robert jenrick of i quote, lynching his quote, verbally lynching his country. that's after a home office video was released of jenrick officials for deporting albanians and sending them back,

basically , the government has basically, the government has agreed a deal with albania to return illegal migrants within 30 days. dominic your thoughts? well i'm going to be cynical here. oh, i'm going to be cynical because we have to look at the track record of this government with regards to illegal migration . it's illegal migration. it's basically opened the floodgates and flooded our hotels with illegal migrants so far. mr. jenrick to say things like catch the albanian detain he's obviously building up the rhetoric to and make it seem like this government is doing something and the easiest way to do that is to target a specific group of people . so i'm going to group of people. so i'm going to be cynical about that. this was a very political choice when you actually look at what's going on, probably doesn't wash . but on, probably doesn't wash. but at the same time, i wish the albanian government was as concerned about the language being used by our ministers as they were about the fact the men

working age men are leaving the country in droves. now, this is what we usually refer to, as you could say , brain drain. this is could say, brain drain. this is this is people that could prop up the albanian economy and support that economy leaving. why they're not talking about the most seriously. this is a policy of theirs. it's not really been widely talked about, but they are they may pursue this amnesty on undeclared assets. so you can deposit up to ,2 million in under undeclared cash you the government cash if you pay the government a tax, which the albanian government , which will obviously government, which will obviously be exploited by criminals. so could you could say they're actually supporting these enterprises happening in our country , john, thoughts? oh, country, john, thoughts? oh, look , i think i'm dominic. look, i think i'm dominic. absolutely right . the government absolutely right. the government have got such a terrible track record on this. they're trying to change that. it's a bit like nicolas nicholas sturgeon trying to change that. it's a bit like ni�*change cholas sturgeon trying to change that. it's a bit like ni�*change whats sturgeon trying to change that. it's a bit like ni�*change what the jrgeon trying to change that. it's a bit like ni�*change what the arguments|g to change what the arguments about albanians about and by attacking albanians . robert jenrick knows 80% of

alba is arriving in the uk claiming asylum get granted asylum. so do they. they do, yeah. 80. it's extraordinary . yeah. 80. it's extraordinary. it's. it's extraordinary . do you it's. it's extraordinary. do you think that's because people have got genuine asylum claims? yes. or do you think it's because people now supply the system? no that's definitely the hope. the hope home office staff hope of the home office staff process. i think is process. this, and i think is broadly similar to other nationalities , afghans, people nationalities, afghans, people who come from from areas where they're oppressed. i don't know any of the cases, obviously, but i think jenrick knows two things are happening. one is albanians get processed and a back. another thing is the british government, because they will not work with the french, can't find a way to stop the small boats . it's a very find a way to stop the small boats. it's a very simple thing. we could be we could be processing. processing applicants. i'm not sure from sending and sending them and sending and sending them and sending them back. we sending them back. how are we not working them when we not working with them when we keep billions and keep committing billions and millions to actually work with

them where we aren't? where you going to be the millions together? the definition together? and if the definition of working somebody is of not working with somebody is handing tens of millions of handing them tens of millions of pounds, please can i submit my application a lot worse? so much so with me quite frankly , i'm so with me quite frankly, i'm all for it . look at the time, all for it. look at the time, everyone. that's all i do have time for tonight. lots of you. a split, by the way, on all the topics that we've come in. roger says rich. when says taxing the rich. when should this kick in? easy. should all this kick in? easy. just hire basically that any want, then whatever i've got or anything that's interesting that everyone thinks the wealthy, it's someone else. many of you saying time to scrap saying it's time to scrap devolution altogether. i agree. is that. devolution altogether. i agree. is that . i know is it? i'll do that. i know that. but for now. thank that. there. but for now. thank you very much. that's all i've got time for. nigel farage is up next. evening. what next. nigel, good evening. what have you got for michelle? thank good evening. well, we've got the labour party taking some really positions , really tough positions, positions that might have positions that you might have said past would been said in the past would have been on of politics. what's on the right of politics. what's the conservative take positions perhaps we have perhaps that we would have thought to be on the thought in the past to be on the left. now living in a

left. are we now living in a penod left. are we now living in a period non—binary politics? period of non—binary politics? we'll that much more. but we'll debate that much more. but first, let's get the weather. hello, i'm aidan mcgivern from the met office . cold winds from the met office. cold winds from the met office. cold winds from the arctic have arrived , the arctic have arrived, bringing overnight a widespread frost , snow and bringing overnight a widespread frost, snow and ice for some , frost, snow and ice for some, but also clear spells for many. the winds at the moments coming from the north and surpassing , from the north and surpassing, well, relatively mild seas . and well, relatively mild seas. and as that occurs, they pick up quite a number of showers . those quite a number of showers. those showers permanently affecting those areas exposed to the north winds. the northern scotland, northern ireland, north—west england, north continuing england, north wales continuing to snow showers overnight to see snow showers overnight building up lower levels, but building up at lower levels, but more significantly accumulate over the hills , there's another over the hills, there's another area of showers , cornwall and area of showers, cornwall and parts of devon here, rain and sleet at low levels, snow over the hills . but either way, icy the hills. but either way, icy patches forming as the day on tuesday begins with widespread frost and temperatures well below freezing , but away from below freezing, but away from those showery areas, actually plenty of clear weather , plenty

plenty of clear weather, plenty of sunshine in the south and the east during tuesday, crisp winter sunshine, not a snowflake in sites, but in the north and the northwest, further sleet and snow showers coming in. and again , that snow building up again, that snow building up over northern hills, some patchy accumulations at lower levels as well . cold days come 2 to accumulations at lower levels as well. cold days come 2 to 4 celsius, feeling even colder in the wind, which will strengthen across northern scotland as we end tuesday , bringing spell of end tuesday, bringing a spell of gales and more significant sleet and snow. i think rain at lower levels for shetland, orkney , the levels for shetland, orkney, the north of the mainland, but snow continuing to build over the hills with blizzards in places so treacherous conditions in the north of scotland and further showers coming to northern ireland, parts of ireland, western parts of england overnight. england and wales overnight. but a frost again as a widespread frost once again as we of wednesday. plenty we saw as of wednesday. plenty of out there, of bright weather out there, some otherwise some patchy cloud, but otherwise a fine day to come if you're in central and eastern parts of the uk. sunny spells further showers coming into the west and increasingly northeast england as well as eastern scotland . as well as eastern scotland. then into thursday, the showers

mainly become confined to eastern coasts. western areas see plenty of sunshine, but it stays .