channel coming on today's show, i'm going to be discussing terror. ukraine and china with former mi six boss. richard dearlove. i'll also be joined by foreign secretary james cleverly to discuss some of the tales of tory in today's papers and labour's pat mcfadden shadow , labour's pat mcfadden shadow, chief secretary to the treasury. we'll be discussing their

party's plans for tax and spend. but first, here's the news headunes but first, here's the news headlines with our anne armstrong . good morning. it's armstrong. good morning. it's 9:30. i'm out on strong in the gb newsroom. labour's calling for an investigation claims the bbc chairman helped boris johnson arrange a loan of up to £800,000. weeks before the then prime minister recommended him for the job. it follows a report in the sunday times that claims tory donor richard sharp was involved in. talks about financing johnson when he found himself financial difficulty in late 2020. a spokesperson for the former prime minister has dismissed the report as rubbish . richard sharpe insists there was no conflict of interest . was no conflict of interest. u.s. investigators have found more classified documents during a 12 hour search of president joe biden's in delaware. some of them were from mr. biden's time as senator and others from his role as vice president to barack

obama . a special counsel is been obama. a special counsel is been appointed to investigate how the president has handled sensitive documents . buckingham palace has documents. buckingham palace has revealed the details for the coronation later this year. the historic event will take place at westminster abbey on the 6th of may. consider will be held at windsor castle. the following featuring what the palace have called global music . thousands called global music. thousands of events are expected to take place all over the uk with a bank holiday declared for monday, the eighth. tv online and dab+ radio. this is gb news. now back to camilla tominey. well, good morning on this very frosty and cold sunday morning. i feel that this week has been a bit emblematic of the topsy turvy nature of our political scene. we've had rishi sunak, a tory prime minister, suggest

that the idea of tax cuts might be. we've had the labour leader, sir keir starmer, say he prefers davos and robin shoulders with multimillionaires to being in westminster . and we've had a westminster. and we've had a number of left wing men in parliament having a go at women for standing up for equality. what's going on there? we'll be discussing that and more over the next 90 minutes. we're going to bring in my pay per view in just a moment. jenny murray, former host of bbc's woman's hour and the daily mail columnist. but first, let's just go through headlines. there's a bit a mixed bag this morning. bit of a mixed bag this morning. the sunday times goes with it's like first war. if we like the first world war. if we kill they're just kill them, they're just replaced, a from replaced, which is a report from ukraine on boris ukraine also. a story on boris johnson, bbc boss helped arrange johnson's johnson, bbc boss helped arrange johnson' in johnson's £800,000 loan in downing street . astonishing downing street. astonishing story on. the observer front page. we've got zahawi for his political life after admitting tax error stories picked up in a lot of the papers today. sunday telegraph headline refugees and

haas heart of diverse coronation. that's a key theme we're going to be discussing in just moment. front up to the mail on sunday. quite the splash. andrew's bid to overturn sex abuse deal. that's a story that's also in the sun . got the that's also in the sun. got the mirror here. sunday mirror. harry spun a tale of a tailspin that's to suggest that a story in his book, 'spare' has been rather overboard blown by the duke of sussex . sunday express. duke of sussex. sunday express. king wants coronation to bring joy king wants coronation to bring joy that's been briefed by buckingham palace last night. so it makes a lot of the papers this morning. and as i said sun on sunday again using that story of the duke of york, andrew plot's, virginia u—turn . right. plot's, virginia u—turn. right. let's bring in jenny murray now .thank let's bring in jenny murray now . thank you so much forjoining me. it's actually a me. morning. it's actually a really mixed papers with really mixed bag of papers with some really good stories. yeah, very , very strange that we've very, very strange that we've known for a long time that boris johnson is often short of money and you need some help from . all

and you need some help from. all of that . the surprising thing of that. the surprising thing about this is that he wanted an £800,000 loan. yes. and so asked for help from richard sharpe , for help from richard sharpe, who became subsequently subsequently being the operative word the chairman of the bbc. i mean, this a sunday times story. it follows on from another report about him needing people to guarantee loans because he was in done fire die of financial straits after his divorce. i think from marina wheeler but the idea that sharpe gets the post of chairman of the bbc after this after helping with th e £800,000 because with the £800,000 because charles moore was considered to be the number one editor of the times to have, of course, from the telegraph. and that didn't happen. and richard sharpe did get the job. not the bbc has nothing to do with who appoints the chairman but the prime

minister does. and he was at the time, i think, mr. sharpe regarded as somewhat of a shoo in so it looks a little murky let's but it looks very very murky to me i keep thinking of the word impartiality . well, you the word impartiality. well, you know, we've heard a lot of that from the bbc, but did it apply here? i don't know. now, the financial story , which is i have financial story, which is i have to say completely baffled me, is the nadhim zahawi story. he has said he was simply careless, not deliberate . who is careless when deliberate. who is careless when comes to tax? you know, when i went free, loved many , many went free, loved many, many years ago, i had some very good advice from a senior who'd been freelance for a long and looking after his own tax affairs. and he said, jenny, let me you one thing mess with anybody that never ever mess with the inland revenue , extraordinary thing is revenue, extraordinary thing is he was chancellor the time that he was chancellor the time that he paid this fine so sorry he

paid the tax and then he paid a fine. he was chancellor for a very brief moment. it's extraordinary. this isn't it? how could somebody with supposedly that financial knowledge be careless with this tax? you know, it's obviously, it's a very complicated story . it's a very complicated story. it's a company that timothy and his father were involved in, you know, going into we to take to goodness knows the optics, jenny, are appalling for him and i think he's you know people are asking him to consider his position as party chairman and probably rightly and follow up story of the weekend of be really interested in your take on this because we have seen in parliament some extraordinary scenes of labour a labour mp rosie duffield shouted down and then miriam cates is on the tory side, both women standing up for women's equality, being shouted down in the house by men . and down in the house by men. and now we hear that one of keir starmer's aides tried to say that , rosie duffield, he starmer's aides tried to say

that, rosie duffield, he was in his own party, should quote , his own party, should quote, spend less time hanging with j.k. rowling . they don't like, j.k. rowling. they don't like, do they ? oh, these men, you do they? oh, these men, you know, they try to say that they're not misogynist, but actually, i think at the root of it, they are , because this it, they are, because this debate is really, really serious . and i've been involved in it for quite some time. i keep getting called a tough, tough for standing up for women's rights. i still think i think anybody that stands up for women's rights these days is silly because, you know, what's about scottish bill is about this scottish bill is somebody has called it. does it mean there'll be a gretna green for trans for the trans community? and this is the gender recognition bill, which suggests that people can self—identify without necessarily having any medical interventions. and it also allows children as young as 16 to move and worry because . 16 to move and worry because. 16 year olds need safeguarding both at the moment it's 18. you can't at the moment it's18. you can't have changed your gender until

you're 18. 16 year old have done it in the past. and we know from belle. yes. who came out two or three years ago, just how damaging it she regretted transitioning from female to male and genetic hormones. and now it's deeply regretted it. and had a double mastectomy and thatis and had a double mastectomy and that is not reversible . and then that is not reversible. and then in her twenties realised no, she was a woman and you know, we have to safeguard children and we have to safeguard . i think we have to safeguard. i think those of us, whether it's j.k. rosie duffield , all of us who rosie duffield, all of us who have really hard to get this properly discussed , would have properly discussed, would have been much more open to the needs of trans women if they hadn't been so aggressive about that. and we've from the protests with sort of trans women shouting at women's face when they want to kill us, all kinds of horrible

things, but also change the language. you know, when they said, oh, no, don't call them breasts, call them chess and all the feeding and all of stuff. people who menstruate , etc. and people who menstruate, etc. and we just had to say. no, these are words . this is our sex and are words. this is our sex and just you can't change your biological . very briefly on biological. very briefly on that, jenny, there was a headline, i think it was the mail on thursday saying labour has a woman's woman problem. do you with that? i do. you you agree with that? i do. you know, a lot my friends who know, a lot of my friends who have been labour support workers all their lives have been saying to me , what are they going to do to me, what are they going to do at the next election who am i most political ? very lot. let's most political? very lot. let's quickly move to the next one. just because time is pressing, as is the case telegraph front page refugees and nhs at the heart of a diverse coronation. it's interesting this. obviously the king wants to make it more inclusive and diverse and it would 1953, which would have been in 1953, which is bad thing. no, i watched

is no bad thing. no, i watched it on the telly in 1953. it may astonish she too. i was old enough for three. well, i am was three years old when the screening . my dad was an screening. my dad was an electrician in a local television . he mended television. he mended televisions. he went on to become an engineer. but we were the only people in our street who console quently had a telly . the entire street came into our front room. we were so crowded because it wasn't a very big house and we watched the queen be crowned and i just thought it was amazing and i loved her ever since . yes. do loved her ever since. yes. do you like the king as much. well, i. i i interviewed him once and i. i i interviewed him once and i liked him very actually. camilla i should call the queen consort. yeah i've met her several times. she liked prince harry in his book. jane almost deserved. no, absolute i'll clean up that silly little boy

thing. so i shouldn't be quite so dismissive. why not? i'm dismissive of it. no, she's terrific . and he is going to terrific. and he is going to that. she is crowned along side him . so it's going to be a him. so it's going to be a diverse coronation and there's going to be lots of excitement what did he say he wanted it to be and he wanted to be something that would light up the nation. and oh, boy, does this nation leave a legacy because he's got a plan there for the big help, i think, which is going to take place on the monday of the weekend where he wants people to volunteer hopes that that volunteer and he hopes that that might in train people doing might set in train people doing a bit more for their communities. we do need the nafion communities. we do need the nation up. right now . nation lit up. yes. right now. do need to boost? don't do we do we need to boost? don't we we do you charles for we in may we do you charles for opinion piece of the day in the telegraph braverman telegraph suella braverman her 0p telegraph suella braverman her op on police reform. now, is op ed on police reform. now, is it going to be enough i'm going to speaking to parm a to be speaking to parm sandhu a little later in the show. a former with the met former officer with the met police about horrific police talk about this horrific david carrick mean, the

david carrick i mean, the reputation of the police right now, regardless of any of the home secretary's efforts, is at an all time low, how can it be repaired? she hopes repaired? she's saying she hopes to make getting rid of bad policeman easier. she's going to review police dismissals. why so late? we known what's been going on for a very long time. i mean, this bloke was i won't say it because it's breakfast telly but because it's breakfast telly but be something . so he had this be something. so he had this reputation of being a complete roman within the ranks and. he stays in this job for 20 years. that was the most exciting, ordinary testimony from one of his victims . the mail yesterday, his victims. the mail yesterday, a double page spread which the deputy chief had done. this woman's experience at the hands of this monster was one of the most disturbing pieces copy i've read in a long time. most disturbing pieces copy i've read in a longtime. but to make read in a long time. but to make matters worse , he remained in matters worse, he remained in uniform . it astonishing, isn't

uniform. it astonishing, isn't it . and we know that that mr. it. and we know that that mr. rowley has been saying , oh, it's rowley has been saying, oh, it's terribly difficult to dismiss them. why it difficult to dismiss them just sack him. you know, since sarah everard , what know, since sarah everard, what did i read this morning? know, since sarah everard, what did i read this morning ? there did i read this morning? there have been 618 met officers convicted since sarah everard's murder and yet still . not the murder and yet still. not the home secretary saying, oh, well you know, we need to review this. we need to make it better. we've heard it all before. do you think it has an effect as well on? women's safety. we already that women feel already that women don't feel particularly safe at night. do you think it erodes generally women's in the police not women's faith in the police not least when we've got things like rape at an all time rape convictions at an all time low? know, when the low? well, you know, when the commissioner of, low? well, you know, when the commissioner of , the commissioner of, the metropolitan police says , he metropolitan police says, he cannot guarantee that if you go to the police to say you've attacked, you've been raped,

you've had some sort of sexual attack , he can't guarantee that attack, he can't guarantee that the man you're reporting to is who has never committed a sexual crime, but is terrifying, who do you go to if you can't trust the police? no, i know. and i think that's one of the reasons why carrick was was able to get away with so much. i mean, the lady who spoke to the mail, under the conditions of anonymity, basically that her father basically said that her father being officer and she being a police officer and she trusted because a trusted him because he was a copper, because he was in uniform kept making uniform and kept on making pledges that he would protect her subjected her to her actually subjected her to the degrading and inhumane the most degrading and inhumane treatment i've ever read about. locked a cupboard. it was locked in a cupboard. it was unbelievable unbelievable what he did to her. enough. a scene of the weekend's papers, as you would expect , is the nhs. of the weekend's papers, as you would expect, is the nhs. and there's this extraordinary picture that you've chosen for photo of the day. let's just take look at it now. now, this take a look at it now. now, this is believe an nhs doctor lying

down with all of the paperwork that he'd to fill out in order to discharge a patient from hospital and i think the doctor looks like he's a good six foot and he is dwarfed by paperwork. jedi, have you ever seen anything it in your life? well i actually was once on the board of nhs hospital and we and struggled and struggled as it became more and more bureaucratic, more and more difficult. the demands from all the different associated organs that have something to say about the way the nhs , whether it's the way the nhs, whether it's the way the nhs, whether it's the confederate or this or that and it was because the only thing that mattered to all of us on the board and to all the doctors that we knew was we need to be treating patients. yes we need to get information as quickly, not filling out forms and yet still it's going on. but it's such a good way of demonstrating very much when

you're trying to treat patients. but you're also doing all of that bureaucracy. it's total madness. jenni murray, thank you so much forjoining. my pleasure. been absolute pleasure. it's been an absolute pleasure. it's been an absolute pleasure. you know, pleasure. well, as you know, we've a people's and we've got a people's panel and today it's going to be in south and sunny south by the seaside. i live here at least there now. olivia, what people talking olivia, what are people talking about morning ? about in southend this morning? hello? yes, i'm here and beautiful southend on this. lovely sunny morning. and i'm here with the people's panel of gb news viewers . i will be gb news viewers. i will be asking them what they of the biggest issues facing britain in 2023. and i'll giving them a chance to grill the politicians on this show . the politicians on this show. the politicians they elected . and this is sam. they elected. and this is sam. sam has been working at this wonderful ocean cafe for the last 60 years. so knows the area well. and sam, how is business going for you at the moment? be honest, it's going quite well at the moment. it's steady, but that's due to obviously where the is situated . and the cafe is situated. and obviously, we've got a very busy residential around us and

residential area around us and we have a lot of local support as well. that's great to hear. are there any concerns you have for the business in this year? i think a lot of businesses in this area and lot of this area and a lot of businesses obviously in the uk at are struggling at the moment are struggling and obviously electric . obviously the gas and electric. so do have to so obviously they do have to put their up and is a family their prices up and is a family run business and they don't want to do this, but they don't really have choice. absolutely really have a choice. absolutely well, much, sam. well, thanks very much, sam. it's to cafe so it's great to see cafe doing so well . and i'll introduce you now well. and i'll introduce you now to our people's panel. first up, we've got diana and diana's a nurse living here in southend . nurse living here in southend. and you've voted for all the parties in your time. and you've voted for all the parties in your time . what do parties in your time. what do you think the most pressing issues facing the government today ? well, the health and today? well, the health and social care system is completely broken . they've got student broken. they've got student nurses qualifying and now they are in before they've even qualified it, basically. so they've got to they haven't got any to keep going with . but the any to keep going with. but the bafic any to keep going with. but the basic principle is we've got patients in beds that can

actually be released into social care , but there is no social care, but there is no social care, but there is no social care either. so i want to know what the government is going to do about relieving the issue. and obviously giving the staff for the and the ambulance service money. thank you very much, diana and edward . edward, much, diana and edward. edward, you were a solicitor here in southend as well . obviously, southend as well. obviously, rishi sunak has a pretty full inbox into 2023. what do you think should be his top priority ? well, where do you start ? it ? well, where do you start? it just seems at the moment the answer to all of the government's is more public spending . there's more spending spending. there's more spending here, there. and everywhere at the moment. and it's been funded by ever higher taxes . it doesn't by ever higher taxes. it doesn't really seem to be any stopping its at the moment. this is from a conservative government. that's meant to be a low tax government . so what would you government. so what would you like to see? an effort made on reforming how the tax spend and also commitment to taxes in the

future? great thank you very much. i'm sure you're not that. and last but not least, we've got matt. matt is a teacher of engush got matt. matt is a teacher of english and classics . and matt, english and classics. and matt, you are a party member, but you're feeling a bit disillusioned at the moment. what do you think has gone wrong with the country? well, i'd like to know when basic needs became luxuries , because it feels to me luxuries, because it feels to me at the moment that we're paying for. far too much, far too expensive . i have anxiety expensive. i have anxiety putting heating on because . i putting heating on because. i can see going up and up and up and up. my wife and i working both of us full time. we have a five year old daughter and i want know at what point we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. because really , we've tunnel. because really, we've got a government in my view, thatis got a government in my view, that is at best incompetent and has mismanaged the economy , at has mismanaged the economy, at worst corrupt and that's my biggest concern. well, thank you very much, matt. and there's a deeply worrying concerns that we're hearing the big challenge

on the government's hands. let's hear soon what james has to say. but first, let's go back to camilla in the studio . thank you camilla in the studio. thank you very much for that , olivia in very much for that, olivia in southend. it looks nice to beside the seaside if . you want beside the seaside if. you want to apply to our people's panel for a future week. you go to gb news uk forward slash panel. the whole point of this, by the way , is that we don't make the show to westminster centric because you're all watching from around the country . why not represent the country. why not represent you from around the country ? i you from around the country? i note of our note that some of our competitors have been borrowing the including the why the idea of including the why broadcasters this novel broadcasters haven't this novel nofion broadcasters haven't this novel notion of actually the public what they think until now completely baffles me . now completely baffles me. now olivia's talked about the fact that we are having james cleverly on his we're waiting for him to come on the line he's on media rounds. he's doing on the media rounds. he's doing a interviews. we wait on the media rounds. he's doing a him interviews. we wait on the media rounds. he's doing a him to interviews. we wait on the media rounds. he's doing a him to come'iews. we wait on the media rounds. he's doing a him to come inrvs. we wait on the media rounds. he's doing a him to come in in we wait on the media rounds. he's doing a him to come in in the wait for him to come in in the meantime, going to bring meantime, i'm going to bring jenni back pay per jenni murray back in. my pay per view she's a dailymail.com view is she's a dailymail.com columnist. also of columnist. she was also host of hour for many years? jenny

hour for how many years? jenny oh, 3333. less for murder. what honestly, it was very strange getting at 530 this morning to come here. i know i should do that from the past. all the time and when i left women's, i said, right, that's it. i'll never get up at 530 in the morning here. but hope you i will. thank you for getting up, for giving news. that's very kind of you. i just wondered, your wondered, with all of your wealth broadcasting wealth of broadcasting appearance, of the appearance, what you made of the state and rishi state of politics and rishi sunak and starmer, do you write what she sunak first? well i, i do have sympathy with him being in the back of a car without a seatbelt on. it's something that i hate sitting in the back of the car with a seat belt. i do it because i know. i know , i it because i know. i know, i know. he should have thought about it. his advisers should have thought about it . know in have thought about it. know in the back of a car, rishi, just put your seatbelt on. that was silly . so i think, you know, silly. so i think, you know, little things like that. very. but you prefer him to boris and

trust will trust. i don't think there's any point in thinking about whether i like . well, she about whether i like. well, she was so short lived . it was such was so short lived. it was such a mess. and i think you think about starmer because the party seems popular, but not the man. well, starmer , i knew when was well, starmer, i knew when was deep directive prosecutions and he was very, very good at it. you know, he was really on all the difficult that women were facing . he really knew what he facing. he really knew what he was talking about . and he took was talking about. and he took it all very seriously . what it all very seriously. what i can't understand about him, obviously, the women question , obviously, the women question, the trans women question is a big one for me. i simply cannot understand why the head of the labour party can't just clearly say he knows what a woman is. yes he has fabricated on that issue of kind of women have a penis . he doesn't seem to be penis. he doesn't seem to be able to give a straight pretty simple how should just be

straight and say look , i know straight and say look, i know what a woman is and i what a trans woman is. let's be clear about that the terminology here about that the terminology here a woman cannot in my experience, have a penis . a woman cannot in my experience, have a penis. so you have come across that no , i'm look, i across that no, i'm look, i think . is across that no, i'm look, i think. is there something wrong with the fact that this particular issue is a marginal for many people and it's dominating so much of the news agenda, it stonewall have been because influence has been huge. you know i first wrote about this i think it was six years ago when i began to read that trans were saying, no, no we can't call it breastfeeding. it's just treating and changing the language and influence in the language and influence in the nhs it actually struck me

last week i watched the itv and new itv series called maternal and i thought gosh this is really interesting it's about three women doctors going back to work and suddenly calling series maternal feels like a really powerful political statement because . maternity has statement because. maternity has been removed so much of the nhs. and if i words and are function are to be taken away. it's not a small that it's a big it's huge do feel for the kind of feminist i mean you were at the forefront of for many years and there is a sense that it's not just women's rights that are being erased, but women themselves selves with some of this language and terminology . well, that that's terminology. well, that that's what i mean know when you call it series maternal and that's a revolution that's how very brave them to do that. but what about

younger women as well, jenny? because there's a generational divide here. we have a section on show called generation on the show called generation gap. older women gap. and, you know, older women do different attitude. it do have a different attitude. it seems , to younger people in seems, to younger people in their and thirties who their twenties and thirties who do inclusive. i mean do want to be inclusive. i mean nobody's talking against inclusivity . i have never spoken inclusivity. i have never spoken against inclusivity . i've always against inclusivity. i've always said what i said to you earlier . yes. that if only there were respect on both sides, that would be fine. i'm perfectly happy to respect the one woman. what we need is disagreement. thank you . well, we're to be thank you. well, we're to be speaking to james cleverly, the foreign secretary, after this .

welcome back. well, i'm delighted to be joined by james cleverly, the foreign secretary can you hear me? and mr. cleverly ? i can indeed. i can cleverly? i can indeed. i can indeed. wonderful. thanks for joining us this morning. indeed. wonderful. thanks for joining us this morning . there joining us this morning. there are some tales in the papers today which suggest a degree of tory sleaze. we've got boris johnson's finances once again under scrutiny. we've got the dames a hallway in this strange position of having to pay a fine

of more than position of having to pay a fine of more tha n £1,000,000 to hmrc of more than £1,000,000 to hmrc while he was briefly chancellor . also in the week we've had the prime minister fined for not wearing a seatbelt in the back of the car. it's not been a great week for the government as it ? well, i think that most it? well, i think that most people would recognise that the, you know, the prime minister failing to wear his seatbelt was a small error whilst he was recording a video about a very important announcement for government funding to some of the most deprived parts of the of the uk in regard to nadeem as a whole. i think it's worth remembering that the whole reason that he that we are having a discussion is because he has been a very successful entrepreneur who built a business from nothing employing hundreds of people, possibly even a thousand or more people, and has successfully contributed to the british economy. he paid

tax the business, pay taxes employees paid tax and hmrc said that he was careless in the administration of his tax affairs, but he is now fully up to date on taxes. that should be should he sack his accountant or should he sack his accountant or should he sack his accountant or should he be sacked then? well, i don't. i do know any more details than what he has already put in the public domain. i don't think it would be right or proper for me to, you know, to speculate or guess about any further details about his tax affairs. but, you know, he has been a successful entrepreneur building a company which has paid tax, employing people who pay paid tax, employing people who pay taxes . and he has himself pay taxes. and he has himself paid tax a considerable amount because he's been successful . because he's been successful. and so the prime minister has spoken up in support of him. so is he still secure in his position as party chairman ? position as party chairman? well, i think the prime minister has been supportive of him and i think it's worth i mean, he is

in that role because he has demonstrated as say, not just that he's been a very successful businessman, but we should remember he was the head of the vaccine taskforce, which was about the role of businesses . about the role of businesses. it's not been a very successful penod it's not been a very successful period because he's mired in controversy now . no no, i think controversy now. no no, i think quite the opposite. i think his time as vaccine minister actually demonstrated to the exterior . and so he developed in exterior. and so he developed in business and in other ministerial roles. was you have confidence in him as party chairman ? well appointments to chairman? well appointments to the government in whatever capacity are for the for the prime minister. it's not for me to say yes. you know, that's were there . i'm not going to were there. i'm not going to start playacting being prime minister. the prime minister has appointed his cabinet. so the prime minister did decide how and how long any of us stay in his role, as you know, putting him in the role of first. well

what i'm saying is i'm not going to play to being prime minister. it is for the prime minister to decide whether i or anyone else remains in his cabinet. decide whether i or anyone else remains in his cabinet . you remains in his cabinet. you mentioned the levelling up fund , the two thirds of the money have gone to tory seats. is this about levelling up or is it about levelling up or is it about shoring up the tories finances in constituencies ? finances in constituencies? because you're worried about losing the next general election . when you say that, it's worth remembering about the majority of constituencies in the country. by definition are conservative, held constituencies, including . after constituencies, including. after the 2019 general election. a significant number of constituencies who are economically who have for decades been economically struggling. some of the poorer constituencies and some of the poorer communities in this country, they turn to the conservatives because they had felt that for too long, particularly under labour governments, they were ignored and overlooked. so it is

actually right and proper that we rebalance how we distribute money around the country so that know community pap saying mr. cleverly that their taxed too much. i mean i understand what you're doing with regard to levelling up in particular seats but we've got some polling in the telegraph this morning which suggests that 49% of the public think the tax burden is too high and that when they're asked who they should trust on improving they should trust on improving the economy, 49% think labour, just 23% think the tories. so the tories have lost their mantle as a low tax party. doesn't that worry you as a committed party man ? well, of committed party man? well, of course, all of us would like to bnng course, all of us would like to bring taxes down the prime minister has said he would like to bring taxes down, but we've got to do it at a point in time when it is right. and for those who for those people who are suffering under the delusion . suffering under the delusion. but a labour government would bnng but a labour government would bring taxes down. i think need to be reminded of what the

lessons of history have taught us all. the conservatives put taxes up when we have to in order to make sure the economic situation is stable . labour put situation is stable. labour put up taxes whenever they think they can get away with it. that is the difference between a narrow, low tax policy mind and an alternative for people to want to be cut by the labour party. no, not ideal for people . most sensible thing in the world? no, of course it's no sense. but there was a suggestion from the prime minister that only an idiot wouldn't understand the current global headwinds and call for tax cuts. even though we know from the bank of england governor andrew that governor andrew bailey that there more fiscal there is some more fiscal headroom. there's 11 billion more fiscal headroom than we thought we had. so can't thought we had. so why can't people expect for some people at least expect for some of the rises that are of the tax rises that are scheduled in april to be cancelled ? we will always make cancelled? we will always make economic decisions that we believe are in the best interest of the people of this country. the tax level that we put in place is to make sure that we're

able to fund the public services that we all rely upon . well, in that we all rely upon. well, in every part of our decision making, we uniquely in british politics at the moment, when you look at the attitude of the lib dems, the snp, the labour party, all of whom are inherently instinctive , terribly high tax instinctive, terribly high tax parties, we tax at the level that we need to provide for pubuc that we need to provide for public services and no more. and when there are the opportunities to ease the tax burden of those hard working families, we seek to do so. that is in stark difference to an inheritance tax policies that might form a government in the future. if people recognise the people don't recognise the importance of foreign trade, taxes , we look forward to taxes taxes, we look forward to taxes at some point coming down. foreign secretary james cleverly, thank you so much for joining me this morning. now from blue to red, i'm joined by pat mcfadden in the studio, shadow chief secretary to the treasury. now i'm confused by labour's economic policy because

we've got keir starmer making some pretty big spending pledges . we've got wes streeting talking about giving nurses perhaps a 10% pay rise and yet at the same time there's lots of rhetoric around we can't throw too much money at it. we've got too much money at it. we've got to be mindful of the purse strings. labour strings. so what are labour going to do then? raise taxes to afford the spending or cut the spending ? the principle will be spending? the principle will be if we come forward with new spending , we'll see how we pay spending, we'll see how we pay for it. so let me give you an example. you mentioned wes streeting there . we've streeting there. we've identified staffing shortages as being part of a big long term problem in the nhs. there's no secret about that. so we've got a plan to train more doctors , a plan to train more doctors, train more district nurses and particularly which costs money and we've said we'll pay for that for through the abolition of the non—dom tax loophole, although there's an argument that that won't make enough money to pay for all that we think it will raise 3 billion a yeah think it will raise 3 billion a year. let me just say the year. but let me just say the general principle here, it's my job chief secretary to

job as shadow chief secretary to make sure that our colleagues don't make unfunded spending commitments and things which were people are hinting or whatever . and we haven't whatever. and we haven't identified the money. those things won't make the manifesto. our manifesto still will be based on a program where we see how it's going to be funded. but there's a costing on things like giving nurses a 10% rise, making gp salaried as phasing out the side of cigarettes, guaranteeing free childcare, keeping the freeze to fuel duty in place. if you did add all that up, it would be 54 billion quid. so let's take that 45 billion. let's take this little go see that was by the tory that was issued by the tory party week. first of all, party this week. first of all, we haven't promised a percentage on the nurses pay rise. secondly for example, the fuel duty thing that you mentioned there , we do that you mentioned there, we do think the government should freeze the fuel, jet fuel duty and this could be funded through the headroom . this they are just the headroom. this they are just being identified since last

november and i was pretty surprised when the tory party issued this dossier saying that there's all these unfunded spending commitments . the river spending commitments. the river thames will run red if labour gets and you know what they did the very next day they hinted they were going to do the same thing. i think people are still confused. i mean, they're utterly it's a terrible thing or is a good thing to the labour position. okay, then let's, let's look at it. this way. the tax burden is at an all time high. gone up from 33% to high. it's gone up from 33% to 39% of gdp since the pandemic. are you going to come in and cut taxes then? are you going to do what? sunak and jeremy what? rishi sunak and jeremy hunt refuse to do? you can't see on individual taxes two years out. if you look at the change in the position from november to the march budget we've had, that's just a period of just four it looks like four months. it looks like between was four months. there might be between was four months. there might b e £10 billion of more might be £10 billion of more more headroom than the chancellor saw in november. but it's labour's inclination just to see the headroom and spend it

immediately. i mean that's kind of jerk labour gets of knee jerk labour gets money and spend. you if you and they spend. if you if you kept fuel duty at the current rate as of the moment, that's putting money in people's pockets effectively compared to the 12 per a litre rise that would come otherwise . so we would come otherwise. so we understand the pressure families are under at the moment, the pressure households are on those through inflation and energy price rises and so on. so we think there is a room to do that, but the broader position which you're driving up is where we say will do something. we will see how it's going. okay well, let me move on to a different subject then and see if you can give me a straight answer on this. has labour got a woman what did make woman problem? what did you make of some of your colleagues behaviour in the house of commons this lloyd commons earlier this week? lloyd russell—moyle bradshaw russell—moyle and ben bradshaw both mp for both shouting down female mp for standing up for women's rights. that was wrong, wasn't it? we don't have a woman problem . don't have a woman problem. we've got as is rosie duffield,

one of your own mp says you do. we've got fantastic strong women in the labour party. i work for one rachel reeves or shadow chancellor be chancellor should these women be shouted the house then? shouted down in the house then? but to go to the second part of what you said, no, she shouldn't have course not. people have been. of course not. people you should be able to give that view, shouldn't you? shouldn't lloyd russell—moyle be disciplined ? it wasn't just disciplined then? it wasn't just his rhetoric in the house. he then bizarrely went and then quite bizarrely went and sat tory benches as very sat on the tory benches as very close to miriam cates would made a point about women's rights and safe for women in a bid safe spaces for women in a bid to intimidate her. that is appalling and disgraceful behaviour in the house as it is, you know , i do not know what he you know, i do not know what he was doing crossing the floor of the house to do it as your viewers will know. and there's the opposition side and the government side. you don't do that. government side. you don't do that . i government side. you don't do that. i don't government side. you don't do that . i don't know what he was that. i don't know what he was doing. what should happen to mr. russell—moyle? well, think it russell—moyle? well, i think it was wrong what he did. i mean, party discipline is not my you know, pay. what know, it's above my pay. what would advocate? i would would you advocate? i would advocate people this

advocate let people this is a really sensitive issue. this issue been issue that people have been talking about people talking about, about people changing gender and what changing their gender and what the law should be and how that should be recognised . the really should be recognised. the really strong on it . what i would strong views on it. what i would advocate here is let people give their views . let's not be cruel their views. let's not be cruel or mean to anyone in this debate and let's try and work. i was russell—moyle was actually cruel and mean on rosie duffield . is and mean on rosie duffield. is it transphobic to say that only women have a cervix. it transphobic to say that only women have a cervix . look, it transphobic to say that only women have a cervix. look, i'm not going to use a term like transphobic . rosie was entitled transphobic. rosie was entitled to see which. would you agree with her? that only women can have a cervix? look and what are you reluctant to say? that i'll be asking you a biological factor in terms of a biological factor in terms of a biological fact ? look, of course, that's fact? look, of course, that's the case. butler is to what? the reason this is in politics at the moment is we've got a gender recognition act, which reckitt knows is that for some people

dunng knows is that for some people during the course of their life, they will want to change their genden they will want to change their gender. it is unavoidable with 16 year olds choosing their own genden 16 year olds choosing their own gender. we've we've said we're not comfortable . now, i think not comfortable. now, i think politics has to work this through , has to do it in a through, has to do it in a sensitive way, as i say, has to do with i mean, to anyone. and in a way that people can express their views not through kind of , you know, you can't see the outrage here. what i think would be, if i may say, mr. mcfadden, is a degree more kindness in politics, which is not what i think we witnessed from your labour colleagues in the week, perhaps to say, fair perhaps that's fair to say, fair to conclude? well, i'll wait for chaos in life. well, thank you very much for coming into the studio today. thank you. let's go back to the people's panel there now in southend. olivia, what everyone make of it what does everyone make of it there ? hello, camilla . yes. so, there? hello, camilla. yes. so, diana, you had those two interviews first with james cleverly, the foreign secretary, and then pat mcfadden, the shadow chief secretary of the

treasury. and what did you make of what they had to say, to be honest, that they're not really making any sense to me. i'm it's just all blase and they just don't seem to be making any headway. they're not being honest and straightforward with us at all. do you worry about the conservative party being just engulfed in all these scandals? do you think james cleverly, his response to that was adequate ? no, i don't was adequate? no, i don't believe the response was adequate. i mean, that there is ultimately said everything is broken and they're not doing anything to fix it. it's just plaster after plaster , just plaster after plaster, just covering everything over. so plaster after plaster, just covering everything over . so now covering everything over. so now i'm not very happy with that tone. thank you. and andrew, if you can stand about attacks coming across the foreign secretary about that, do you think he's responsible . for think he's responsible. for i mean, we're running into some very difficult times . it's like very difficult times. it's like you we're going to head into recession conditions this year. taxes are very high . government

taxes are very high. government borrowing is extremely high at the moment, at a time of record high interest rates. so the government will automatically be spending more money on spending far more money on interest servicing this year than ever before . it just than ever before. it just doesn't seem to be much interest in making sure that every taxpayer's pound is spent efficiently. nobody's really talked about reforming fundamental public services. the answer is still spend more money. spend more money. well, the money's got to come from somewhere. it's got to be earned. if the government is spending, then it's coming out of our pockets . absolutely. of our pockets. absolutely. thank you very much, edward and matt, you nodding that matt, i saw you nodding that europe suppose you're europe is out. suppose you're feeling bit disillusion. feeling a bit disillusion. when did say there change did what people say there change your in any way? at your mind in any way? not at all. another fudge all. it was another fudge interview . used have a lot interview. i used to have a lot of time for james cleverly, actually, used to respect actually, and i used to respect him. the issue for me is rishi sunak does not have a mandate to run the country. he was put before the party members with liz truss more than six months

ago.the liz truss more than six months ago. the party membership decided to reject him and then for whatever reason we now have him in control because they didn't want to put it to the party members. again, i fundament truly think the only way to resolve the issues we have in this country is a complete of management. complete change of management. at top and we need a general at the top and we need a general election. well, thank you very much . strong words from our much. strong words from our panel there . for now, to panel there. for now, back to you the studio . oh, great you in the studio. oh, great job, olivia. thank you so much. that was olivia. they were the people's panel in southend. if you do want to apply to a future shows people panel bearing in mind we're going to go around the log on to gbnews.uk the uk, log on to gbnews.uk forward slash panel now i'm delighted to be showing now by sir richard dearlove , former sir richard dearlove, former chief m6. you were there for chief of m6. you were there for five sir richard, thank five years. sir richard, thank you very much for coming into the studio this morning. i mean, your form brief couldn't be busier at the moment with fears for the future of ukraine, fears about china , fears again about

about china, fears again about britain and the safety of britons in the face of various terror threats. let's begin with ukraine, because this story about the germans refusal to give these leopard tanks over to the ukrainians and indeed to sanction in the licencing of other countries , giving their other countries, giving their tanks, i think is giving a lot of people extreme cause for concern at the germans reneging on their responsibilities as a nato member to a european partner. well they haven't reneged on them yet. i think it's important to say that. i think i would describe germany as being at a crossroads and they're hesitating . they do not they're hesitating. they do not yet know which way to go because there's no good shouting at germany over this issue . i think germany over this issue. i think one has to understand the problems that germany has in facing really a fundamental change in its foreign policy and its attitude to international

security. i mean, if they decide not to supply leopards to ukraine or if they as it were, embargo leopards from those that they've supplied them to poland, which is willing to 2000 of these machines? yes in the ownership of various european countries. and at the moment they can't export because the germans won't agree. but so i mean , it may well be that they mean, it may well be that they will agree for others to supply them, but then there's a question of a just stick supply repair , say the germans , repair, say the germans, whatever would have a role to play whatever would have a role to play and i think they're just faced with a very tough decision . i think if you look carefully what pistorius, the new defence minister , actually said minister, actually said yesterday , even say they weren't yesterday, even say they weren't going to. i mean, i did listen very carefully to his wording and i think he probably indicated that there will be some sort of agreement. but i

mean, the germans have this anxiety over, i guess, escalation , although the french escalation, although the french have also been quite reluctant to step up with military support . well, the french have always defined that security policy slightly differently for everybody else . they've everybody else. they've traditionally had a closer relationship with russia in some areas than other european states . yep and they've been slow to step up to the plate, i think recently you have actually seen a change in france's attitude . i a change in france's attitude. i mean, macron's now declared an increase in french defence expenditure. i mean, schulz has but hasn't really done anything about it, but i think in france's case they are now shifting their ground quite significantly . what's your significantly. what's your assessment and analysis of putin right now ? you know, there's right now? you know, there's a debate going on about whether he's mad, bad or both . how do he's mad, bad or both. how do you see this playing out for him

particularly ? well, i think this particularly? well, i think this is a conflict that putin politic in russia cannot afford to lose . so if he does lose and i think one would have to reflect on what louis means in this particular case, then i think his political future is probably over finished. but, you know , over finished. but, you know, the mechanisms for getting rid of a leader in russia are not clear. i think he's just in a very vulnerable situation. i mean, that's a disastrous conflict. he's entered into . conflict. he's entered into. it's going from bad to worse . it's going from bad to worse. he's probably faced with another call up that clearly is deeply unpopular in russia. there must be massive tensions within the leadership group inside the kremlin. there must be massive tensions. social across russia over this whole issues . i tensions. social across russia over this whole issues. i mean, there doesn't seem to be a high

likelihood of him being deposed. i just don't think we can tell. i just don't think we can tell. i think deposed. i mean, i brashly predicted last year that on the grounds of probably his health, he'd get shuffled off into a sanitarium and would disappear and that then he would just have a probably a continuation of the same regime in someone else's hands. i still think that that's a possibility. it's clearly something wrong with him. what do you mean by that? psychologically, physically or physically, i think. yeah if you i mean, so many people have i'm not a clinician. yes, a clinician . and clinician. yes, a clinician. and i know analysing has movements. there's something wrong with. yes. and maybe that is affecting his political judgement as well. we're living through such volatile times . what would you volatile times. what would you characterise as being the say three main threats to britain right now ? well, i think . we've

right now? well, i think. we've got the whole cyber issue because we're not in direct conflict . so let's say our conflict. so let's say our opponents and our enemies can make great trouble through attacking our cyber and you most worried about the russians and the chinese while the russians and the chinese obviously use that to significant degree . i that to significant degree. i mean, if we listen carefully to what, for example, the director general of gc, not so in the security service and to an extent hq, the communications intercept centre in cheltenham have said, i mean they put china at the top of the list and i recently had a very interesting conversation with the former head of cia and head of nsa in general hayden. and i mean, he basically agreed , he said china, basically agreed, he said china, china, china . basically agreed, he said china, china, china. right. in the medium to longer term . and

medium to longer term. and that's been articulated here nationally in the uk in quite an emphatic fashion. and has that been heightened by china's circling of taiwan, or is that just a general? circling of taiwan, or is that just a general ? they have the just a general? they have the technology at their fingertips with which to use against us. i think it's more fundamental than that. you know, if you look at the 20th party congress, if you look at the results of that, if you look at the document tation, i mean, china is set on a road to attempt to dominate globally, but 21 and 49, you know, in halfway through this century . so halfway through this century. so the idea that you know, they sit there in a sort of benign state blaming and peaceful coexistence is actually not. it's rubbish . is actually not. it's rubbish. yes. so china has these ambitions . so we have the cyber ambitions. so we have the cyber threat . you have a cyber threat threat. you have a cyber threat coming from china and from russia . you have obviously the russia. you have obviously the sort of destabilisation that a

major war on the european continent and the risks of escalation . so, i mean, that is escalation. so, i mean, that is clearly for the uk in particular because you know, we are a significant european power, a very direct threat. we still have the terrorist problem in the third. and i think that also is something we have to worry about. maybe not quite to the same degree. when you speak of terror, are you talking about islamic fundamentalist then? are you talking about because there's been an increased focus on it far right extremism? is there an equivalence there ? there an equivalence there? personally, i don't think there is. i think the major threat comes from islamic fundamental terrorism and the degree to which there are organisations. i mean, org analyse terrorist movements. so isis is still in existence . there's the remnants existence. there's the remnants but still potent remnants of al—qaeda. yes okay. there are

also the problem of lone wolves. and i think that that problem of lone wolf terrorist stretches across right wing extremism and islamic fundamentalists. across right wing extremism and islamic fundamentalists . but in islamic fundamentalists. but in terms of conspirators , terms of conspirators, organisations that threaten society generally across western countries, then i think you've probably have to say that's primarily an islamist terror threat. and i think the that the unpublished review of the prevent strategy which william shawcross yes, the preventive strategy , i think that comes strategy, i think that comes probably to that conclusion. i mean, it stood still being as it were debated before it's publicly released. i know you have theories on covid. yes, i do . do you think that it was do. do you think that it was a wuhan lab leak? do you think it

was deliberate ? i don't think it was deliberate? i don't think it was deliberate? i don't think it was deliberate? i don't think it was deliberate . but i do think was deliberate. but i do think it was a leak from gain of function expert criminals conducted in the wuhan institute. and i think now, frankly , the evidence for that frankly, the evidence for that is , i would say, overwhelming . is, i would say, overwhelming. the problem is it's not proof. i mean, you're looking at a range of possibilities . and my of possibilities. and my understanding now, from talking to virologists who know and understand this issue and have looked at it closely, is the chances of it being the zoonotic jumping from animals into human which market is very, very small, but what can we do about it? how can we ever get answers to this? we never will really. i don't think we'll get a definitive answer. i think the scientific answer now in the range of probabilities is that it was a leak from the institute. i think it underlines how dangerous going game gain of

function experiments are in any lab . yeah yeah. and maybe this lab. yeah yeah. and maybe this is the debate that we need to have is the extent of international control over the sort of biological experiments . sort of biological experiments. i also want to ask you about brexit and whether you think brexit and whether you think brexit has made the uk safer or not. well, i have strong views on that too. i don't think it's made it less safe. let's put it like that. look the uk is the leading security and intelligence nation . in what was intelligence nation. in what was the european union. we never, as it were, ex sized, are influence and are resources , as it were, and are resources, as it were, in this area through brussels. we dealt bilaterally with every single european state and every

single european state and every single european state had a very important relationship with the uk in this area because we were a european leader. the arrangements of brexit haven't changed that at all because we didn't do it through brussels. we did it nationally and i mean, there are one or two areas where european legislation is applied like databricks change, but general speaking, i don't think brexit has, as it were, affected the uk safety in the respect that you're asking . i'm just that you're asking. i'm just a brief word on this one. the compromising of political mobile phones, this idea that this trust was hacked by the russians and several occasions politicians just not up to speed with how to protect themselves from this kind of thing. with how to protect themselves from this kind of thing . well, i from this kind of thing. well, i think , you know, there is the think, you know, there is the issue of convenience. there's issues of communication. there's the vulnerability of modern tech

knowledge. if you want to , as it knowledge. if you want to, as it were, protect yourself . you've were, protect yourself. you've got to use various sophisticated stuff. i mean , look, i've been stuff. i mean, look, i've been out of office for a long time , out of office for a long time, but in the days when i was still a crown servant of salford phones, mobile phones existed, but they were extremely clunky. yes. and awkward to use. difficult is . and . in a real difficult is. and. in a real world, you know , you can't world, you know, you can't expect politicians to rely on this stuff. i think things have moved on massively now, but you have to be very disciplined in the way that you behave and i mean, the politicians lead such vast lives so much is happening continuously. i think it's almost they have to be abreast of it . a moment of levity, if we of it. a moment of levity, if we can, because you had a very serious chat about 10 minutes. and you mentioned. oh we need to wear your offices. well used to

be. i still it be. and i still remember it being blown on a bond film. i being blown up on a bond film. i mean, as a former head of my six, is it busman's holiday to watch movies and to be watch spy movies and to be involved ? there's of involved? there's a lot of appetite for on the telly. would you that? and is you just avoid all that? and is it representative what it even representative of what life really like mi6 ? life is really like in m16? well, depends what sort of well, it depends what sort of movies and what sort of books you're talking about. i mean, some of them are realistic. some of them are completely fantastic. all right, then, fast . last question. favourite bond . i guess. you know, some of my generation is james. i mean, very short . generation is james. i mean, very short. sean generation is james. i mean, very short . sean connery, of very short. sean connery, of course, the original, the very original. i mean, rich, you know, we just didn't even think of him as sean connery any longer. we just know his bond. james life, said james. james bond's life, said james. so love, thank you so richard de love, thank you very joining this very much for joining me this lovely to with you. now, lovely to speak with you. now, here's the news headlines with our own armstrong . hi. there it our own armstrong. hi. there it

is 10:30. i'm out. i'm so in the gb newsroom. neighbours calling for an investigation into claims the bbc chairman helped boris johnson arrange a loan of up to £800,000 a weeks before the then prime minister recommended him the job. it follows a report in the job. it follows a report in the sunday times that claims the tory donor, richard sharp, was involved in talks about financing mr. johnson's lifestyle in downing street when he found himself in financial difficulty in 2020. a spokesperson for the former prime minister has dismissed the report as rubbish. richard sharpe insists there was no conflict of interest . meanwhile, conflict of interest. meanwhile, the tory party chairman remains under pressure after admitting he paid a penalty as part of a multi pond. multi—million pound tax settlement. the themes are, he says , hmrc accepted he made he says, hmrc accepted he made a careless but not deliberate error in relation to the sale of shares in the polling company he founded . labour has called his founded. labour has called his position untenable, but the foreign secretary , james foreign secretary, james cleverly says he believes nadhim

zahawi has paid his taxes. he has been a very successful entrepreneur who built a business from nothing , employing business from nothing, employing hundreds of people, possibly 1000 or more people, and has successfully contributed to the british economy. he paid tax the business, pay taxes, employees paid tax and hmrc said that he was careless in the administration of his tax affairs, but he is now fully up to date with the taxes that he owes . several people understood owes. several people understood to be injured following a shooting during chinese new year celebrations in california. a warning the following contains some flashing images. police and emergency services have been responding to an incident in monterey park near los angeles, where thousands of people had gathered. it's not yet clear how many people have been injured or if anyone has killed buckingham palace revealed the details for the coronation later this year. the historic event will take

place at westminster abbey on the 6th of may. the concert will then be held at westminster castle the following day, featuring what the palace have called global music icons. thousands of events are expected to take place all over the uk, with a bank holiday declared for monday, the eighth. tv online dab+ radio this is tv news.

welcome back. well, we've spent the week being horrified and appalled. the crimes of david carrick the rapist cop. i'm joined now by parm sandhu former chief superintendent at the met. thank you very much for joining me this morning. you were a woman in the met. you recognise this characterisation of the met being deeply misogynistic. of

having rogue officers in its midst . good morning. one of the midst. good morning. one of the things i really do need to say is that the majority of police officers are good, caring individuals and they're there for reasons and they for the right reasons and they they turn up. day in, day out. and they will be there to support people in crisis . what support people in crisis. what has happened is a too many officers corrupt individuals, have been allowed to join policing and then remain in policing. and this isn't new. this is something that's been going for . on and even in 2015 going for. on and even in 2015 and then last year, in november , the constabulary for policing issued a report to say that there was something wrong with there was something wrong with the vetting and there was something wrong with the culture that enables these sort of individuals to be attracted to policing and then stay in policing. i think as well . isn't policing. i think as well. isn't that fair? an alarm over this idea of other officers turning a blind eye to officers in their midst who have got this reputation for treating women

appallingly and nicknaming them rather actually calling them out and saying, oh, these people need to be disciplined. absolutely and the fact that david carrick had a nickname he would have earned that nickname. his behaviour would have been such people would have such that people would have thought nickname fitted thought that nickname fitted him. the problem that is him. but the problem that is exists in police and something that really does need to be looked at quickly is that the culture doesn't allow people to whistle blow. there's no support network. and as a woman, i experiences firsthand . if you experiences firsthand. if you then call out that bad behaviour, you then become the victim. you then have false allegations made against you. you press the emergency button when you're out in the street and people aren't going to turn up. we'll explain that a bit more. there isn't the procedure in place. what do you mean? because there isn't h.r. because there isn't an h.r. department per or if you're department per se or if you're reporting behaviour, who reporting bad behaviour, who you're right. you're reporting it to. right. what you'd normally do what we, what you'd normally do is you'd report it to your line manager you report it to the manager or you report it to the complaints departments. what complaints departments. but what happens is you become

happens is you then become isolated . the team will turn isolated. the team will turn against you and say, well, you're across or you told tales and they hide behind this label of banter. they call it banter , of banter. they call it banter, but they cross the line again and again . and then you're told, and again. and then you're told, well, you're not part of the team. you can't take a joke. and that's how they hide it. and so you to really brave to you have to be really brave to call this sort of behaviour. call out this sort of behaviour. and when you do, you're not supported. your your development suffers promotion suffers suffers, your promotion suffers . and even going into work on a day to basis is really day to day basis is really challenging. and you think lot of women in the met feel like they're still today? i know that this behaviour is still carrying on today. i'm still a mentor. you know, i wrote about my experiences in my book, but this is still happening now and it hasn't changed and it's not strong enough. and even today i was reading through the commissioner's new nine point plan, and i welcome the plan. but it's not quick enough, a two year plan. we need to think now. and my fear is about a woman or

a man. anybody who's in crisis out there in the street, who hesitates to pick the phone up . hesitates to pick the phone up. i want them to be able to pick the phone up and know that they're going to get a good officer turn up to help them. in general, the attitude towards the police force mean the reputation of the police force is at an time low. that must is at an all time low. that must depress a senior depress you as a former senior officer. i think it's really shocking how trust and confidence has suffered . and i'm confidence has suffered. and i'm hoping that that trust and confidence can be rebuilt. it's going to take time and it is going to take time and it is going to take time and it is going to be a listening experience . and when i talk experience. and when i talk about support for whistleblowers, there also needs to be support for men and women who are reporting rapes . the who are reporting rapes. the rape conviction rate in this country is between 1.3 1.5. country is between 1.31.5. that's appallingly low. so means that we haven't got the safeguarding right. it means that we're not looking after people who are brave enough to report these types of crimes . report these types of crimes. but finally, palm, do you think that actually stories like carrick's might put off rape

victims from reporting their crimes because they just think that the police are the same as the rest of them? absolu really? people to hesitate and people are going to hesitate and they will not report. and that's why that trust and confidence has to be rebuilt and it has to be done quickly. the complaint it's vetting. it needs to be it's the vetting. it needs to be taken away from policing. and given an independent body so given to an independent body so that they can be looked at independently. and one day, you could be working with somebody and that banter. then and engaged in that banter. then the day, you're the next day, you're investigating them. that the police marking own homework police are marking own homework and can't be allowed to and that can't be allowed to continue. thank you very, very much it's parm sandhu much indeed. it's parm sandhu there joining me this morning. now, me just read a few now, let me just read out a few emails . jenny says labour can emails. jenny says labour can say whatever they think will win them the election . they are not them the election. they are not scrutinised in history shows they always leave us worse off. sarah which she soon thinks sarah says which she soon thinks the public are stupid . he the public are stupid. he patronising and talks down to them all the time, as does jeremy hunt. taxes can and should be cut despite what they

both say. kathleen adds. please look at the archive pictures of starmer and corbyn in the back of a car without seatbelts on. maybe we'll investigate that . maybe we'll investigate that. finally, graham, he says , solve finally, graham, he says, solve the shortage of nurses overnight by bringing in nursing apprenticeships , get them out of apprenticeships, get them out of uniand apprenticeships, get them out of uni and onto the wards or to be fair, i think they do do nursing apprenticeships but perhaps get some clarification on that point. in a moment now, i'm joined generation gap today joined for generation gap today by gardiner, labour mp for by barry gardiner, labour mp for brent jess gill, who brent north, and jess gill, who is a political commentator . is a political commentator. thank you for joining is a political commentator. thank you forjoining me. do you thank you for joining me. do you know what generation you're in, barry? think you've put barry? well, i think you've put me this of young to me in this sort of young to middle, yet. barry, i think middle, but yet. barry, i think you might be a i don't want to say, are you an x? is that making you know? what do you think? what are you, a millennial? i am a zuma agenda . millennial? i am a zuma agenda. you have z. right all right. you have gen z. right all right. well, there is a gap. i'm a boomer. you're a zuma boomer, too. zuma. that's what we like. our generation gap. so we're going to talk about strikes. we've obviously got this

february, the first date coming. it's like a national day of striking . just to go through the striking. just to go through the list, teachers , uni staff, train list, teachers, uni staff, train drivers, civil servants. then we're expecting more nhs workers to go on strike and ambulance workers again after that february, the first date. barry this striking is holding the country to ransom. it's not fair . it's not right. some of the people in these positions, authority shouldn't be able to go on strike at all. you've just listed teachers, ambulance drivers, nurses , nurses have drivers, nurses, nurses have never been on strike before. and i think in my lifetime. and so people in this country feel that they're not being treated fairly and that they are not being rewarded properly for the work that they do . now, you and i, that they do. now, you and i, camilla , were out on our camilla, were out on our doorsteps , and i'm sure jess was doorsteps, and i'm sure jess was as well applauding those people , these essential workers during the pandemic. , these essential workers during the pandemic . and now you're the pandemic. and now you're saying that they're holding the

country to ransom and that they're the enemy within, not just. i just i they're the enemy within, not just. ijust i don't they're the enemy within, not just. i just i don't think this can. yeah, no, absolutely right. but of course, what the nurses did and what the ambulance drivers did was they they made sure that the essential services of the ambulance care for emergency calls were all provided. and all of that was done.the provided. and all of that was done. the point is this. and we are seeing people, nurse teachers actually having to go to food banks to feed their kids. that's wrong. okay and we need a fairer society as the zuma here, presumably you are pro the worker you want strikes to happen because you're young and engaged in the political scene and you support what barry saying . well, for one, i am pro saying. well, for one, i am pro worker, but i'm also pro—consumer and i think it's completely unfair on the british pubuc.i completely unfair on the british public. i think it's a lose lose situation if i don't think nurses deserve a lower pay or any of these sectors . well, any of these sectors. well, also, it's unfair on the british pubuc. also, it's unfair on the british public . and i think it's not the

public. and i think it's not the workers who are at fault for this. if your pay decreased by inflation, you'd want it to be increased . i think it's actually increased. i think it's actually the politicians over here who are responsible for this , and i are responsible for this, and i think that's the issue . i think think that's the issue. i think we need to realise who's to blame here and it's the government. yeah, well , the government. yeah, well, the politicians are all to blame, jess and i absolutely agree because the government could have intervened in the negotiations . they actually negotiations. they actually blocked the real companies from having the negotiations . they having the negotiations. they put that 2% limit in place and they said they weren't allowed to move beyond it. now in a situation where we've got food inflation, now almost at 17% cent and this is just too much and i think just right. the government is to blame here. is it not a kind of a bit of a kind of old labour, old school, your generation argument to be kind of being scargill ask about strikes when you've got a young woman here just saying well this is an it's perfectly cogent

is an it's a perfectly cogent argument. well, it might be fair to workers on strike, but it to the workers on strike, but it isn't fair to the workers who need to go to hospital that need to go to the hospital that day need to use trains or day or need to use the trains or need use essential services. need to use essential services. you what, really you know what, i found really interesting about way in which the reporting of strikes the reporting of the strikes has happened at the happened is a lot of at the beginning, a lot of reports just went out and did a vox pop and the public almost universally were saying , oh, look, of course were saying, oh, look, of course it is going be inconvenient for me, but i understand why they're saying that. jess i mean, personally, it's caused me . i personally, it's caused me. i know because earned her an education, whether that be university or a secondary school or a school , university or a secondary school or a school, and that we could be hurt by this. we've had just lockdown a couple of years , but lockdown a couple of years, but they're still suffering. the consequences of that. i have all the family members who are reliant on the nhs and they will suffer the consequences of it. while i don't blame the workers, still think that's the consequence of it. people are suffering this country. yeah. suffering in this country. yeah. yeah. they are. so it's wrong.

it's wrong to grind who are just starting out life like jess starting out on life like jess and her friends. they're to get about to do good day's work, to not kind of this work shy not kind of have this work shy tag is often a flicked it tag that is often a flicked it on the young and yet at every turn they're being stifled by people putting their own interests first. look, interests first. no, look, i don't think that's fair because actually people actually young people are nurses. people are going nurses. young people are going into all of these professions of these, you know, jobs . and what these, you know, jobs. and what we see and what young people feel at the moment and i don't i can't speak , jess, but many can't speak, jess, but many people i talk to, young people that i talk to, are worried about the insecurity in work. it's the 0 hours contracts that bottom . they want a good job. bottom. they want a good job. they wanted a job not necessarily for life, but they want a career path . they want to want a career path. they want to know that they're going to be properly rewarded. we'll have to leave it there. thank you, jess. thank you much, for thank you very much, barry, for that cross—generational chat. now, up, we're going to now, coming up, we're going to be speaking to a holocaust survivor with an extra ordinary story to tell. we'll see you .

next welcome back . well, it's welcome back. well, it's holocaust memorial day on friday. and i'm joined by wendy holden now, who's author of this extra ordinary book, born survivors , which is about the survivors, which is about the story of three holocaust survivors, include thing i'm delighted to say. eva clarke , delighted to say. eva clarke, who joins me now . just very who joins me now. just very briefly, ladies, i brought you in because you gave a talk at my daughter's school and she said it was the best tortured ever given. it's hugely inspiration. and therefore, i wanted to ask you about directly on this you about it directly on this sofa. your story. i mean , sofa. eva your story. i mean, you really be here . you shouldn't really be here. encapsulate your story for us. if can, in short time if you can, in the short time available right . my father was available right. my father was german. my mother was czech. they met in prague . they were they met in prague. they were young , able they met in prague. they were young, able to work and so they

were among the first people to be sent to terror interrogations at the first camp. and czechoslovak ikea. they were there for three years, which was there for three years, which was the very unusually long period of time. and then my father was sent to outfit and incredibly , sent to outfit and incredibly, my mother actually volunteered to follow him. the very next day because she had no idea where he'd been sent to. being the eternal optimist, she thought they survive, but she they would survive, but she never ever my father again never, ever saw my father again . and she found out after the war that he had been shot on the death march on the 18th of january 9045. and i was just as liberated on the 27th, such as days before. yes, yes. yeah my mother became pregnant in that scene, which was illegal. the sex of the segregated . and she sex of the segregated. and she said, well, it happened . and it said, well, it happened. and it happened twice . it was very happened twice. it was very dangerous. but it happened twice . and when she was pregnant with my brother . and the germans my brother. and the germans found out they said that when the baby was he or she would

have to be handed over to be killed by their going to suffer, obviously. yeah. when he was born in, february of 1944. his name was usually. which means george and he but he actually died of pneumonia two months later. and his death saved my life and my mother's life because had they arrived in auschwitz, had she arrived in auschwitz, had she arrived in auschwitz holding my brother in her arms? they would both be killed. and then she arrived in auschwitz. later and she was pregnant again with me. but nobody knew. she knew, but nobody knew. she knew, but nobody else didn't show. so again she lived. so she managed to disguise the pregnancy for the entire time. and then the circumstance says of your birth. yes my mother was in a slave labour camp six months in germany and then was they were evacuated to they were on a train that consisted of coal wagons for 17 days, no food , no wagons for 17 days, no food, no water. and the end of those 17 days, they arrived in a place

called mauthausen, which is in austria, netherlands . and when austria, netherlands. and when my mother saw the name at the station, she had such a shock because as opposed to when she'd arrived in auschwitz, not knowing what that was, this time she knew. said the shock she knew. and she said the shock was great that was sort was so great that she was sort of possibly provoked of probably possibly provoked the onset of labour. and she gave birth to me on a cart in the open air and without any help at all. oh that help . there help at all. oh that help. there was a officer standing near her and he said to to her a shrine, which means you can carry on screaming, presumably she had been. screaming, presumably she had been . she always said she was been. she always said she was screaming not only because she was in labour, but because she was. she thought she was about to die. but we both survived the experience. i was born. i didn't i didn't breathe. and we always say that there are three reasons why we survived in. first is a very chilling one. on the 28th of april, 1945, the had run out of april, 1945, the had run out of gas the gas chamber. well, my birthday is 29, so presumably

had the train arrived on 26 or 27, i wouldn't be talking to you now. the second indirect reason why we survived is because on the 30th of april, hitler committed suicide . yes. and the committed suicide. yes. and the last and the best reason why we survived is because on the 5th of may, american army of may, the american army liberated the camp. my mother reckoned she wouldn't have lasted i lasted much longer. they think i weighed was wrapped in weighed £3. i was wrapped in pain. presumably mother pain. and presumably your mother as very as well was undernourished. very she weighed four, five, five stone, even though she was pregnant. wendy, bring pregnant. wendy, let me bring you in, because it's not just story that you've managed to capture this astonishing capture in this astonishing book. are other born book. there are two other born survivors and you managed to track them down and then unite them. how on earth did you do? well, i first came across the story in 2013 when i read an obituary of a woman who had died in canada in her eighties, who'd had that had been taken had a baby that had been taken away, got me away, murdered. and it got me thinking. have any babies survived the holocaust? and after of research, after a fair amount of research, i came across eva's name . and i came across eva's name. and when about her and her when i read about her and her mother, would have travelled mother, i would have travelled to to them,

to australia to see them, but she lives cambridge and she lives in cambridge and i live suffolk , so yes. and live in suffolk, so yes. and i spent day with her. it was spent the day with her. it was incredibly moving. at the incredibly moving. and at the end dayi incredibly moving. and at the end day i asked if she end of the day i asked if she would do me the great privilege of mother's story, of writing her mother's story, and out and touched and she reached out and touched my and said, i've been my arm and said, i've been waiting for you for 70 years and itold waiting for you for 70 years and i told her i believed her story was unique and was quite was unique and it was quite funny because a little funny because she was a little indignant because. well, i thought five years thought so too. but five years ago discovered that there were ago i discovered that there were two others whose mothers had been on the self—same journey from slave labour from outfit to slave labour to mount house. and been mount house. and they had been reunite through the reunion reunite sit through the reunion of veterans who of the american veterans who operated them. and then you managed with . managed to reunite them with. well, already they had well, they were already they had met managed to get met and we managed to get together. i knew about together. once i knew about them, i realised i had to encompass all three because i call them siblings heart. call them siblings of the heart. they've close and they've become so close and i couldn't miss one without the other. how it feel to other. and how did it feel to meet those people been meet those people who had been in exactly the same situation? you'd basically been born in these extraordinary terribly difficult circumstances and survived it. right. well, i have to take all the credit because i

found that fab i found them five years before by chance by the american veterans organisation. it's a long story. american veterans organisation. it's a long story . yes. and so it's a long story. yes. and so we met five years before in mauthausen , when it was the last mauthausen, when it was the last time that the american veterans were going there because they were going there because they were very elderly by that stage. and it was quite remarkable . we and it was quite remarkable. we sat in one cafe all day talking about our mothers laughing and crying , talking about them. and crying, talking about them. and i was so glad that they actually they both came to cambridge the following year, in 2011, and they met my mother , who was the they met my mother, who was the only one of the three mothers who was still alive. and they were so pleased to meet her because we all happened to be only children. so we feel we are. they came into our are. and they came into our house. and my mother because my mother living us then and mother living with us then and my mother said, you know, my children . and that's all that is children. and that's all that is lovely. i mean, a ending to such a difficult situation . just ask a difficult situation. just ask you briefly before we eva, with regard to holocaust memorial day

on friday, that does seem to have been a resurgence of anti—semitism , not just in anti—semitism, not just in britain but around the world. briefly, do you think enough is being done to educate schoolchildren and people about the importance of the holocaust, but also to try and expel what remains to be anti jew sentiment 7 remains to be anti jew sentiment ? oh, it's a very big question . ? oh, it's a very big question. it is very sad that there is this research . and i think, yes, this research. and i think, yes, we all have a response ability to try to educate as many young people as possible to show what what is, in quotes, the logical outcome of racism and prejudice. well i think the phrase that we always use when it comes to holocaust memorial day is never forget . and this extraordinary forget. and this extraordinary story . just to say the book story. just to say the book again is called born survivor. wendy and eva, what a story you've had to tell. and thank you've had to tell. and thank you so much forjoining us here on the show this morning . well, on the show this morning. well, it's been a very packed day.

we've enjoyed the show. do sign up for our people's panel and please do join me next week. goodbye .

good morning and welcome to sunday with arlene foster. i'm standing for in michael portillo while he takes a well earned break this morning as we approach the 25th anniversary of the belfast agreement . what hope the belfast agreement. what hope is there? the power sharing will be restored in northern ireland. new zealand's prime minister, jacinda ardern, says she doesn't have enough in the tank to continue . do we expect too much continue. do we expect too much from leaders ? to social from our leaders? how to social media contribute to burnout?