good evening. i'm tatiana sanchez. in the gb newsroom. investigations are continuing in california, following at least ten people who were killed in a shooting at a lunar new year. festive all. thousands of people have been gathering at monterey park , los angeles, when a gunman park, los angeles, when a gunman opened fire. another ten people were taken to hospital with at least one in a critical condition . the la. county condition. the la. county sheriff says a male suspect fled the scene and remains at large. very preliminary description has

been described as a male asian brander viewing victims and witnesses. we've gotten different descriptions of one suspect. so when i say it's preliminary, please again, be patient with us. we are here to tell you that we are utilising every resource to apprehend this suspect . and what we believe to suspect. and what we believe to be one of the county's most heinous cases . meanwhile, heinous cases. meanwhile, a cabinet minister has told gb news the teams of hawaii has the prime minister's support. that's following allegations about his tax affairs. the conservative party chairman admitted he reached a settlement with hmrc , reached a settlement with hmrc, believed to be almost £5 million. following an error of a multi—million pound shareholding in the polling company yougov , in the polling company yougov, labour has called his position untenable. but foreign secretary james cleverly says he believes zahawi has paid his taxes. i don't know any more details of

what he has already put in the pubuc what he has already put in the public domain. i don't think it would be right or proper for me to just just speculate or guess about any further details about his tax affairs. but he has been a successful entrepreneur building a company which has paid tax, employing people who have paid taxes. and he has himself paid tax and a considerable amount because he's been successful , at least 380 been successful, at least 380 migrants have arrived in the uk on ten small boats overnight, making it the busiest day of channel crossings so far this year. channel crossings so far this year . gb news channel crossings so far this year. gb news understands a few other boats have also set off this morning but haven't yet made it to the uk. this morning but haven't yet made it to the uk . the boats made it to the uk. the boats were monitored by french vessels, which can only intervene if the migrants get into difficulties . today's into difficulties. today's arrivals bring the total number of those crossing the english channel this year to 530 and family, friends and fans have gathered to attend a memorial service for lisa marie presley

held at her father's estate in memphis, tennessee. the us singer and only child of elvis presley is being laid to rest at the graceland mansion she inherited from her rock and roll father. she died on the 12th of january after reportedly suffering a cardiac arrest at home. she was 54. now, among who paid tribute were the duchess york and lisa marie's mother , york and lisa marie's mother, who called her an icon and a superhero tv , online and dab superhero tv, online and dab radio . this is gb news. now it's radio. this is gb news. now it's over to face these nation . over to face these nation. the uk government blocks the snp's gender reform bill. rishi is fined for not wearing a seatbelt and a health expert tells us all to stop eating cake in the office. this is free speech nation . welcome to free

speech nation. welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle . this is a show where we doyle. this is a show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics and of course, we'll have all the latest news from those friendly social justice activists unless they get the show they manage to get the show cancelled before 9 pm. coming up, though, over the next 2 hours, i will have a star here in to debate prime in the studio to debate prime minister sunak's decision in the studio to debate prime miblock sunak's decision in the studio to debate prime miblock scotland'sk's decision in the studio to debate prime miblock scotland's gendersion to block scotland's gender recognition reform bill. we're also to be discussing also going to be discussing government to what government plans to ban what they trans they are calling trans conversion therapy . and we'll be conversion therapy. and we'll be asking jeremy clarkson asking why jeremy clarkson appears losing tv appears to be losing tv contracts over column he wrote contracts over a column he wrote criticising . meghan markle but criticising. meghan markle but that's tip of a hefty that's just the tip of a hefty iceberg of current affairs. joining me tonight to answer your comedians your questions are comedians diane and josh howie . diane spencer and josh howie. welcome both . how are you.7 good, welcome both. how are you? good, thank you. it's yes. was my son's iith thank you. it's yes. was my son's 11th birthday. well, i don't care. well i don't know. i don't care. well i don't know. i don't i don't know. your son is

that was the birthday present was you to spend a week with him? i would say not now, yes. all right. so you just say he doesn't watch the show, does he? not interested? not any more, no. not now. he's better, right? how are you doing? oh, i'm grand. i had a lovely time yesterday. i was on headliner, so to in with drag so i had to in soho with drag queen. is fabulous and you queen. you is fabulous and you look very glamorous ever. i love it. i know yolo as the it. well, i know yolo as the children say. they do say i don't know. i know what don't know. i don't know what they but they say it they mean. but they say it anyway. get some anyway. let's get some questions, our lovely audience. our from our first question is from peter. peter. peter. good peter. peter. hello, peter. good evening. she sunak evening. hi so if she sunak can't be trusted to wear a seat belt in a car, what else can you belt in a car, what else can you be trusted with driving the economy? well so paul richie really senior because, you know, he's been hit with this fixed penalty notice by lancashire police because he posted an instagram which he was instagram clip in which he was in he wasn't in the car, but he wasn't wearing the and he wearing the seatbelt and he posted to highlight posted this clip to highlight his plans for levelling that his plans for levelling up. that was he has was the idea. but he has accepted, he has apologised, he has paid the fine. diana, is

this deal? well, i think this a big deal? well, i think he's the crime he's trying to help the crime statistics technically statistics because technically they something now . they have solved something now. yes, right. yeah i think yes, that's right. yeah i think by giving it to them on a plate , by saying no, look, i definitely have and lancashire police you've got to remember you've lancashire police who you've got lancashire police who are essentially are trying to essentially rebuild reputation of what rebuild the reputation of what all the rest of the police are doing. they're like , no, doing. yes. so they're like, no, we don't treat anybody differently. i love the fact differently. and i love the fact that when issued a 42 that they when we've issued a 42 year male , it was like, oh, year old male, it was like, oh, oh, this is like a serial killer. you can't really reveal his identity. i thought that was quite shocking. josh is that the only belt gate ? i mean, this only belt gate? i mean, this isn't this isn't it's really it's a no. it's no. and also, like they have the poll from london, 42. we got that guy from but no it's ridiculous. but what also makes me laugh is the people online trying to find stuff about keir starmer. oh, really? people are like putting off someone's like, look at this clip of keir starmer. he's not wearing a seatbelt. and it's from like 25 years keir

from like 25 years ago. keir starmer's got like brown hair and he's taxi scene and it wasn't against the law at the time wasn't against the law at the fime ws wasn't against the law at the time it's just disastrous. time and it's just disastrous. i'm not saying you should. i mean, i you should wear a mean, i think you should wear a seat the back. seat belt in the back. i absolutely do. but, you know, it's the deal in the it's not the biggest deal in the world. it. i mean, it kind of is if you are the prime minister and the guy to slam on the and the guy has to slam on the brakes. but get it brakes. yeah, but i get it because was in the car because he was in the car making, a video, he was making, a video, and he was thinking would be cumbersome thinking it would be cumbersome if you were strapped up. you know, you've to think it's know, you've got to think it's up the aesthetics. but up to the aesthetics. yeah, but he's thinking in terms of he's always thinking in terms of the is how the aesthetics, which is why how rishi goes because he's rishi goes wrong, because he's always be glossy always trying to be this glossy kind guru. yeah, kind of thing all guru. yeah, but he doesn't know how to but then he doesn't know how to use a contactless card and then he also a homeless man. are you employed it's like, no. employed once? it's like, no. rishi god. love anyway rishi oh, god. love him. anyway we're going move on to we're going to move on to another now from another question now from catherine. catherine? catherine. where is catherine? hello. tas be able hello. hi should st tas be able to games roles? oh, well, to play games roles? oh, well, now and again. now comes up again and again. but week this is but this week this is specifically actual specifically about an actual theo who was in the theo james, who he was in the show the white lotus, show called the white lotus,

which i haven't seen, but he then asked how he might be playing michael this playing george michael in this biopic singer, and he's biopic of the singer, and he's interest and people interest anyway and other people are chipping in and saying, are now chipping in and saying, that's outrageous. the singer adam saying, know , adam lambert saying, you know, this is awful. he actually tweeted saying, another tweeted saying, yay. another straight icon straight man playing a gay icon . don't really care about . i don't really care about that. do i mean, do you that. do you? i mean, do you think, you he's acting, think, you know, he's acting, isn't i think they need isn't it? no, i think they need to find someone who's greek, who's who's called who's from london, who's called george . yeah, michael . it's george. yeah, michael. it's a documentary. yes so do going to be able to play what people are. but the question is, when it comes to sexuality, does that mean that gay men are only allowed play gay men? well, that's implication isn't that's the implication, isn't it? where you it? well, that's where you take the rock hudson the logic. and rock hudson played a brilliant straight man all those years . arguable. all those years. it's arguable. i how many people can get i wonder how many people can get that reference . but it's true. that reference. but it's true. i mean, look, if he's caught acting a reason, i think he acting for a reason, i think he should able to play whatever, should be able to play whatever, you know, limits. like you know, within limits. like i can 50 year black can play a 50 year old black woman, could play i could

woman, but i could play i could play woman, but i could play i could play a straight man. right you could do very well. i mean, he was ish. mean, you was straight ish. i mean, you unbelievable. nailing unbelievable. you nailing the dress that's okay. dress code? that that's okay. every game that bravery but every game that bravery go. but the thing is, it is acting and as if you go down as josh said, if you go down this pathway, then you're only going to mean the actors really show their skills and then show you their skills and then you end up with a lot of we're going to miss out on so much great storytelling. what you think about charlize theron, who played also played eileen were not also charlize an amazing charlize theron. it's an amazing actor. a psychopath actor. she's not a psychopath doing work on side of the doing work on the side of the road, shooting. she's not. road, shooting. no, she's not. but this performance and but she did this performance and she got an oscar it. and you think about all those things that to miss that we're going to miss because you in your lane. what you have play in your lane. what the argument though that you know, enough roles know, there aren't enough roles going gay actors. like, going to gay actors. it's like, that's misogyny that's ridiculous. misogyny going to him. that's the issue. you see, theo james did what a lot do wouldn't mind lot of do and i wouldn't mind playing george michael ever it's not even in works you know i see what done. yes, i see what he's done. okay well, not going to dignify that anymore tactic.

it's going to another question from danny . yes my question is, from danny. yes my question is, should germany be doing more to support ukraine. okay. so this has been happening this week. the world is still waiting for a decision on and whether they're going to allow the leopard 2 tanks to ukraine. lot tanks to be sent to ukraine. lot of pressure on germany at the moment because there's sort of i think don't want the think they don't want be the main that the issue main target. is that the issue here? yeah, well, they've built up very cosy relationship with up a very cosy relationship with russia the last 20 russia over the last 15, 20 years. they're sort of years. and so they're sort of caught two spaces. caught between two spaces. there's going on. there's there's a lot going on. there's a lot of pressure in germany itself. then but but itself. yes. and then but but the problem is that they're tanks and that's released out all the designs to the rest . all the designs to the rest. europe. yes. so the rest of europe. yes. so the rest of europe can't send the tanks until germany allows them to do the licence. so it is an issue. well i mean they're saying they want the us to be taking the lead, but the us already are taking the lead in terms of the money and lots of other ways and their tanks just aren't appropriate. they run on f whatever. exactly. yeah. appropriate. they run on f whate do '. exactly. yeah. appropriate. they run on f whate do you exactly. yeah. appropriate. they run on f whate do you make ictly. yeah. appropriate. they run on f whatedo you make of.y. yeah. appropriate. they run on f whatedo you make of thiseah. appropriate. they run on f whatedo you make of this one

what do you make of this one that that olaf scholz he that i think that olaf scholz he is doing a lot of the talking and his was initially very good. yeah. he is not backed yeah. but then he is not backed it up at by sending it any it up at all by sending it any of armaments. mean of the armaments. i mean apparently germans saying apparently 46% of germans saying we oppose sending the tanks and 43% say we want you to send the tanks. so the idea that he's playing towards the crowd and saying, okay, well, not going to send the tanks, but like josh, there's so many different countries that have got all of these leopard twos and they don't want to risk, you know, having a no armaments having a having no armaments from in the by from germany in the future by not putin is going to not them. but putin is going to escalate things no what escalate things no matter what you do . and right now, olaf you do. and right now, olaf scholz thinks he's okay because he not firing he thinks he's not in the firing line. but putin is just going to change he's firing. yeah, change where he's firing. yeah, yeah. change where he's firing. yeah, yeah . okay. well, look, this yeah. okay. well, look, this isn't away. this story, we isn't going away. this story, we will probably back it. will probably come back to it. but also later in the show, i'm going get questions from going to get more questions from our studio audience. our wonderful studio audience. but free but after the break on free speech prime minister speech nation, prime minister rishi sunak has the scottish government's gender reform bill potentially a constitutional crisis ? we will be asking if he

crisis? we will be asking if he was right to do so. see you in a moment .

welcome back to . free speech welcome back to. free speech nafion welcome back to. free speech nation rishi sunak has blocked the scottish government's gender reform bill. the bill would allow teenagers as young as 16 to legally change their gender and reduces the period for which applicant must have lived in their acquired gender before submitting an application from two years down to three months, the government would use section 35 of the scotland act 1998 to block hollyrood gender recognition reform bill from becoming it will have becoming claiming it will have an impact uk wide equality legislation . and this is the legislation. and this is the first time that section 35 has been used. minister been used. prime minister sturgeon has described westminster's action to block the gender bill as, quote, a full frontal on the scottish

parliament. so here to discuss this with me the discrimination and employment law, barrister moira white and the family barrister sarah finnerman. welcome . i'm going to come to welcome. i'm going to come to you first. there was an article in today's times and this is by ellie. ellie gomersal and the president of the national union students scotland and. this is a trans person saying, i the gender reform bill is simply going to make life easier for people like me. it means that marriage records, death certificates, all of these things will just be more accurate, accurately reflective in terms of how this person lives. what's wrong with that? the charitable interpretation of thatis the charitable interpretation of that is that it's a fantasy . the that is that it's a fantasy. the accurate interpretation . it is accurate interpretation. it is untrue. now i accept that in most interactions in life, sex is irrelevant . it's not is irrelevant. it's not relevant. now, as we sit here talking, but we organise around the protected category of sex when it matters. it really matters. so a grc give a

biological male doesn't have to be. according to scotland , be. according to scotland, diagnosed with gender doesn't have make any modifications to his body whatsoever. the grc gives him the legal sex female and allows him access more female spaces . so to say this is female spaces. so to say this is simply something that i hold to myself that makes me feel better about myself is not true because it changes the meaning of sex and the equality act. and that was the recent judgement of lady haldane, where some commentators said the equality act, sex is purely biological. she said, no, no legal sex is included within that definition. i'm going to come to you, robyn, because the bill itself states that it will have implications or ramifications on uk wide equality law . is that accurate? equality law. is that accurate? yes think it is. the we have the so as described already anyway. that there are no particular for

a grc uk law. you have to modify your body. you have to convince a panel that you are sufficiently committed to you or affirm sex and that doesn't require a particular surgery in all cases. what i think has been lost in the rather debate that we've had is what the change is in scotland actually do and the small changes that they make. and i think we've lost the focus on the equality act as the gatekeeping act for single sex spaces and the legitimate concerns that people have about being to in certain maintain privacy , all of which is privacy, all of which is maintained by the equality act, none of which is changed by the scottish act. so you don't accept the idea that the scottish act will effectively change what the equality act means when it refers to the protection of sex? well, we know that lady holden's that because lady holden's

judgement, which there's absolutely correctly referred to, is the judgement. now under the existing legislation for the whole of the uk . we don't have whole of the uk. we don't have the change scottish grc system and yet lady holden and indeed has supported the view that i have taken for many years, that the equality does not referjust the equality does not refer just to biological sex is some sense of maleness or femaleness which the equality act deals with, which is not tied to biological sex. is that the problem, sarah, that the equality act isn't clear? yes, definitely . i take clear? yes, definitely. i take the view that robin takes , and i the view that robin takes, and i was surprised to find myself in a minority when the haldane judgement came out i said, but surely the recognition surely the gender recognition act, there's no other interpretation at interpretation looking at section legal section nine other than legal sex comes under the umbrella of sex. so you've now got legal and biological. the problem, though, is i don't agree with robin at all that these are small for a start. it's going down to age 16, 17. as my call for pointed out in his very clear piece of

the six significant changes to the six significant changes to the equality act, that's a biggie, because suddenly now schools are going to have to grapple with the impact of that. it's just not right to say these are small changes, because clearly the act that the bill is designed enlarge the cohort designed to enlarge the cohort of people who will be able to get a glc because the requirement of a diagnosis of gender goes. but is it the case that get acquiring a grc may not have particular may not increase the likelihood that people will get going to female only spaces. i think the confusion around the law is definitely going to be a problem. we know we've got confusion because on the one hand we've got howe, the hand we've got lord howe, the former supreme court judge, saying, i think the government were to invoke were absolutely right to invoke section charlie section 35. we've got charlie faulkner , former law chancellor, faulkner, former law chancellor, going there. absolutely wrong . i going there. absolutely wrong. i think for me is do women think the key for me is do women have a right to single sex female spaces . and if you think female spaces. and if you think they don't , then explain why and they don't, then explain why and what's happening now, think quite deliberate me from some quarters that issue is being

confused and obfuscated and processed. well, let's talk about that issue. robin, can i put that question to you. do women have a right to single sex spaces? well, not under the law. as it stands, that's not the structure of the equality act. they makes provision for single sex bases and that's great. keep great the gatekeepers of that at the providers. so i have for example to rape crisis centres as clients . one in edinburgh, as clients. one in edinburgh, one in brighton and they are the experts in providing that sort of service and they are trans inclusive services. now they're entitled to make different choices , but they don't. but is choices, but they don't. but is it possible that with the changes or with the ambiguity over what is meant in the equality act in terms of sex, that if, for instance, a rape crisis centre was set up, but it says it will only be the biological males and trans identified people won't be admitted. that be admitted. would that be something you would objective? well, not something i have well, it's not something i have a view on in a sense, in that the provides that opportunity .

the provides that opportunity. now, it's not an absolute opportunity for the service provider because it has to be a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim . so the service a legitimate aim. so the service provider i don't i couldn't say that the maintenance person has to be female because they're not interacting perhaps with the uses of the service . but the uses of the service. but the people who run the service could decide as some services have to provide the service on a trans exclusive basis . and if they can exclusive basis. and if they can that that's a proportionate means of achieving legitimate aim, then they act legally . so aim, then they act legally. so is there a problem here, sarah, insofar as the act in itself, the bill won't really change that much? on a practical level, people are concerned these single sex spaces, but actually , will the will this legislation make really that much of a difference if, for instance, rape crisis centres can say we are exclusively female? i say that will because express that it will because the express purpose is to increase the cohort people will acquire cohort of people will acquire a gender recognition certificate as the government's said in its

reasons for invoking 35 all safeguard that have been removed. the government is not convinced that there are appropriate safeguards now for women and girls. and i note robin shaking robin's head now , robin shaking robin's head now, i think about a year ago, robin, we met on zoom for equality and diversity for students . and you diversity for students. and you said during that zoom that women who say there is a clash between trans rights and women's rights are and i quote completely mad . are and i quote completely mad. are you still of that view ? i are you still of that view? i think the focus so at the moment we have a focus on the scottish bill. the scottish bill does very limited things. yes, it increases the cohort . there are increases the cohort. there are thought to be 25 to 30 geniuses being granted in scotland each year the moment. that may rise to two or 300, but against the population it's still tiny, tiny numbers and a really important point is that are combating

violence . women and girls is violence. women and girls is really important . and if we really important. and if we focus on an irrelevance , which focus on an irrelevance, which is the trans issue to that and it is irrelevance, then we run the great risk of focusing on those predatory males are really the risk both to natal females and. transvenous. can i ask you and. transvenous. can i ask you a bit more about that robyn, because you say that it's an irrelevance, that the fear that certain have that self id genden certain have that self id gender, self id could put women at risk. yeah but there have been cases happen there where people have exploited the notion of self id in order to commit acts of violence against women. i listened to accused show yesterday when preparing to come and she postulated a certain instance where a predatory male presents themselves as female to access a female space. no. okay

we have 350 million people living on the cell phone systems at the moment. and i don't think have instances of that . but just have instances of that. but just think of the logic that for a moment. i think then going go on and apply to the state for a glc , i mean, and put the hand up effectively and say look here i call attention to myself when no one needs to grc to attend the service , no one needs an altered service, no one needs an altered birth certificate to attend the service. do they need a grc though, to be transferred? a women's prison? not absolutely not. the pathway is slightly different. whether they have one or not. but what the prison service does is look look at it takes a risk based approach . it takes a risk based approach. it looks at the needs of the individual, the needs of the population . and it takes a risk population. and it takes a risk based approach as to where they're placed the prison estate. but mistakes have been made, haven't there, sarah, in terms of the prisons. i mean, right now , right at this minute

right now, right at this minute , a gentleman who now wants to be called isla is undergoing or was i last week undergoing trial for rape and. his victims were having to in court to her penis . there's also a man called cavalier roe who has abducted and raped his female care worker who's going to be released from prison and wants to be called claire. there's actually no doubt that getting a grc gives men like this more clout. now, i completely agree with the problem is not transpeople . the problem is not transpeople. the problem is not transpeople. the problem is not transpeople. the problem is predatory men . but at problem is predatory men. but at the moment, we are given no test to show that. so—and—so is a true and honest trans person. and so and so is a predatory male. and removing the requirement for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria is increasing the risks the uk government say. am i right in thinking that an amendment was proposed? scottish that proposed? the scottish bill that would impossible for, would make it impossible for, say, who was on trial say, someone who was on trial for, assault say for, sexual assault to say something ? 22 amendments were something? 22 amendments were proposed around offending. and one of them? yes. was anyone who

was awaiting trial. there should be a pause on their application to say these victims of to say these female victims of male sexual assault from having to their attacker in court as she now if that ever happens to me and i hope it doesn't i will go to prison before i will call . a male rapist. she. this cannot have been the purpose of the gender recognition act. this cannot be where the framers of that act thought we would end up. 20 years later. so, robyn, i mean, you i there's mean, you i mean, there's a dispute about to what extent the gender recognition act will have an impact on whether male sexual offenders can be transferred to women prison. but do accept women prison. but do you accept that is legitimate that there is a legitimate concern there men will concern there that men will obviously prison exploit obviously in prison exploit that and housed with vulnerable and to be housed with vulnerable women that that has and it probably will continue to happen. i, i haven't seen evidence of that . and the way in evidence of that. and the way in which judges conduct trials in the uk is there is a thing called the equal treatment bench book, which judges take their

cue from and that makes very clear that there are certain circum stances where a victim should not be required to refer to an offender in a particular way after amendment and after protest for a number of women dunng protest for a number of women during the clap then was caught by the original version of the equal treatment bench book and was told to refer to the six foot man who knocked her to the ground she. and also have ground as she. and we also have jonathan who is this jonathan mallon, who is this serial . this was reported serial rapist. this was reported just days ago. now he just two days ago. now says he wants called sharleen. wants to be called sharleen. he's bragging to other he's been bragging to other inmates that he's going be in inmates that he's going to be in a prison by easter. i a women's prison by easter. i mean, these are serious concerns, they, know? concerns, aren't they, you know? yeah, they are. and yeah, of course they are. and the is the right service the prisons is the right service to assess their needs, the to risk, assess their needs, the needs of the rest of the prison population, and to safely manage . there is no there's no bar on placing a prisoner either on what is referred to as the male estate or the female estate, depending on what the appropriate safe place for them to be is in the estate and the

prison service is the appropriate service . manage that appropriate service. manage that properly, risk . sarah so properly, risk. sarah so nicholas sturgeon has come in on this. she had an interview the other day and she said the fear that women have about predatory men accessing women only spaces to and attack is to abuse and attack women is very don't have to very real. but don't have to show birth certificate show your birth certificate to access spaces. so the access women only spaces. so the point this bill does give point is this bill does not give predatory men more ability to abuse women than that predatory predatory men more ability to abus�*already1 than that predatory predatory men more ability to abus�*already has. n that predatory predatory men more ability to abus�*already has. thisit predatory predatory men more ability to abus�*already has. this seemsitory predatory men more ability to abus�*already has. this seems toy man already has. this seems to be widely view, though, man already has. this seems to be wi�*it?/ view, though, man already has. this seems to be wi�*it? well, view, though, man already has. this seems to be wi�*it? well, i'iew, though, man already has. this seems to be wi�*it? well, i can though, man already has. this seems to be wi�*it? well, i can only|gh, doesn't it? well, i can only repeat the i gave a little while ago. i disagree because there is no being offered to us to no now being offered to us to say this is a true and honest trans woman and. this is a predatory male, removed , saying predatory male, removed, saying all safeguards taking the two year period down to three months. now the uk government has said in terms the reason that section 35 is invoked, the first time ever was because government was not satisfied that the safeguards in the bill was sufficient. women and girls. we've got the un rapporteur giving evidence to the scottish

politicians about this and she seems to have been dismissed and, ignored. we've got female politicians being jeered at and intimidated in the house of commons. we've got scottish politicians standing in front of placard ads wielded by men saying decamp itate terfs. so nicholas sturgeon needs to wake up . this is a very unpopular up. this is a very unpopular bill in her own country and amongst our own politicians. sir i've spoken to a lot of feminist who have concerns about this, and none of them have said to me that they feel that trans people are inherently predatory or that there's a connection being trans and predator. but and being a predator. but they're the they're concerned about the exploitation. raised exploitation. sarah just raised an . how an interesting issue. how can you sure that who you be sure that someone who claims be trans or whether claims to be trans or whether theyi claims to be trans or whether they i mean, how do you validate i.d. they i mean, how do you validate id. is what i'm asking. every every category person in every category of person in society has good people and bad people. yes. i think all every category and i'm a ridiculous analogy is that we all use telephones . analogy is that we all use telephones. criminals use

telephones. criminals use telephones . but what you don't telephones. but what you don't do is ban telephones because use telephones. what you do is identify a wrongful use . and identify a wrongful use. and look at that and criminalise that. look at that and criminalise that . but the trouble is, if that. but the trouble is, if people can't if there's no way to measure cell phone. we're right back to i mean, i've been in practise 30 years. and when i started in section 28 was in place and, it was still acceptable to say you shouldn't have gay men as primary schoolteachers because they're after your children and that connection constantly being made between trans people and criminals or sex offenders or whatever is , is the thing that whatever is, is the thing that wins friends, people out that no end , no trans would say end, no trans would say offenders should not be properly deau offenders should not be properly dealt with . no trans person dealt with. no trans person would say that . what we need to would say that. what we need to focus on is dealing properly with offenders and separately ,

with offenders and separately, properly with trans people. and you can i come in on that? because it's a matter of real bafflement to me that . robyn sat bafflement to me that. robyn sat throughout some bailey's employment tribunal because robyn was junior for counsel and heard all of this explained at length and eloquently by ben coopen length and eloquently by ben cooper. casey the problem is not trans people. the problem is men. and if you are allowing men an easy route to identify as women , that puts women and girls women, that puts women and girls at risk of harm. that is incontrovertible . so rather than incontrovertible. so rather than answering that and i note that robyn never gave an answer to my whether robyn was still of the view that i and other women like me are completely mad for having these views . i don't think we these views. i don't think we are. and i would hope think we are. and i would hope think we are. and i would hope think we are. and the uk government doesn't think we are. but i kudos to robyn coming and having debate and i think it is really significant because this should have happening four or have been happening four or five years glad it's happening years ago. glad it's happening now. but unless people are willing to honest about the willing to be honest about the central issues and not simply

come back the same tired old tropes of forced teaming, transness with sexuality. this isn't section 28. no gay man has ever wanted to run a race . a ever wanted to run a race. a woman, a gay man has ever wanted to go into a woman's. it's a completely and unhelpful analogy . and if it wins trans people off i'm sorry. the answer is for trans people to engage honestly with what is a real concern. i'm not making this up for thrills. i'm not a bigot spouting hate . i'm not a bigot spouting hate. i'm not a bigot spouting hate. i'm very, very worried about. women and girls and people need engage with that. so it's about minorities, isn't it? i suppose a similar analogy might be that with schools, you know, we have disclosure and barring service checks for everyone and all because there might be it's tiny minority who will be to gain access to vulnerable children. but what those checks are not implying is that teachers are inherently know, have a predilection towards predatory behaviour. similarly . no one behaviour. and similarly. no one is saying, or at least they're

certainly not saying that trans people are inherently predatory. but there is a minority of men who will exploit the system. is not fair point. how is not a fair point. and how is that your view . that anti—trans in your view. it's not it's not anti—trans per se but for example, some of the proposals in scotland and i sat in the scottish parliament all the way through , all the way the way through, all the way through the debates. what the scottish government have done is add into offender legislate and in scotland some traction and some protections against sex offenders being able to make it to gain some of the advantages of a gender recognition certificate in scotland . and certificate in scotland. and that's exactly how it should be deau that's exactly how it should be dealt with that the protections should relate to the wrongdoers and not the generality of the population or the generality of the trans population. but i suppose the counterargument is that you just need to the law when it comes to prisons and spaces, just needs to focus on biology. but that you give people the right to identify however they want in every other

walk life. mean, that seems walk of life. i mean, that seems like compromise, like a reasonable compromise, isn't we've identified like a reasonable compromise, isrthe we've identified like a reasonable compromise, isrthe start we've identified like a reasonable compromise, isrthe start ofa've identified like a reasonable compromise, isrthe start of the identified like a reasonable compromise, isrthe start of the discussion at the start of the discussion that the sex effectively as measured by the equality act, is not biological. measured by the equality act, is not biological . so trans people, not biological. so trans people, sex is not founded in biology , sex is not founded in biology, it's founded in their innate sense of self. so that doesn't work. well, i, i disagree with that. sex inequality actors understand it is quite clearly biological sex and legal sex. legal sex doesn't automatically biological sex. and that i think your compromise perfect sense as i said before , sex is often i said before, sex is often irrelevant most day to day interactions . but when it interactions. but when it matters, it really, really matters, it really, really matters . and i note, for matters. and i note, for example, robyn has said that robyn did not any changes to robyn's voice because robyn wanted to that male privilege , a wanted to that male privilege, a deeper voice in an advocacy setting. now that's not something may have really a complete misrepresentation of anything that said. right. well,

i apologise . if so, that's what i apologise. if so, that's what i'd heard and understood you to be saying that you didn't choose to feminise your voice the deep. and you have to have to come back.i and you have to have to come back. i will. yeah. no, it will, if that's. it's completely wrong. i will retract and apologise, but it underscore my point that sex, when it matters is not something that i as a woman can i out of. i'm stuck with it and all the consequences. it for my body and my vulnerability faced with a man. well this is obviously a very difficult issue, but i we are out of time. but i would like to thank you both very much for coming on. i the voice point. absolutely. of course. yes. it's important that you do that. right. so i that. yeah. right. so what i said that what i remember said was that what i remember saying was that my voice is my voice. and there surgical techniques which can alter a voice as an oral advocate it's my speaking to and there are great risks terms of going down the surgical route to alter a voice. and that's why chosen not to do that and why on occasions still i get misgendered. i

phoned up my hotel . there are phoned up my hotel. there are wonderful female advocates with appropriate female voices. serenade out is one i wish . i serenade out is one i wish. i had a different voice. i wish i had a different voice. i wish i had had the opportunity that young people have these days to go through . i would have go through. i would have regarded as the right puberty and not have my voice look broaden and deepen . it did which broaden and deepen. it did which was part of the awful experience that trans people have when they go through what they regard for themselves as the wrong puberty . now, what i did not say ever was that i retain those speaking voice that i have because it retains male privilege. if i could have an appropriate female speaking voice, if you could snap your fingers and do that for me. andrew i would be delighted . okay. well, i think delighted. okay. well, i think the point is being and i think that's absolutely fair and i would like to thank you both for coming on to talk this. and i hope we can do this again, because i think there are so

many issues relating this that we just don't get to talk about ever because because it just doesn't happen. so i do really appreciate participation. doesn't happen. so i do really apprecyou. participation. doesn't happen. so i do really apprecyou. sarahcipation. doesn't happen. so i do really apprecyou. sarah andtion. doesn't happen. so i do really apprecyou. sarah and robyn . thank you. to sarah and robyn. and after the break on free speech, nice. we're going to be talking about the british government plans to ban conversion therapy with dennis kavanagh. please do not go anywhere . i'm simon evans. join anywhere. i'm simon evans. join me on gb news, the headliners at 11 pm. what's the scoop? i'll be joined by two of the country's top comedians. be joined by two of the country's top comedians . yeah, country's top comedians. yeah, that's right. as we take a look at tomorrow's newspapers tonight , which is going to trouble if it's a big story, be covering it, spill some tea on him. there will also have some fun. i wouldn't stick up a bank. my father me. so anyway , father didn't me. so anyway, headliners every night from 11 on gb news the people's channel britain's news.

channel welcome back to christmas nation with me andrew doyle the british government is planning to go ahead with a ban on they are calling trans conversion therapy . the government had already agreed to ban gay conversion therapy, activists have therapy, but activists have argued that they need to include conversion practises aimed at changing someone's gender identity. are fearful identity. but many are fearful that this could this ban could inadvertently criminalise parents, teachers and doctors who are trying to offer therapeutic help for children struggling with issues of genden struggling with issues of gender. so joining me now to discuss this is director of discuss this is the director of the men's network, denis the gay men's network, denis kavanagh. denis, you have to help clarify this to me . when help clarify this to me. when people think of conversion therapy , they think of gay men therapy, they think of gay men being wide up to electrodes. some doctor of trying to forcibly change their sexual orientation . and trans people orientation. and trans people are saying, well we want a similar ban, which is what the government has agreed to. how is it any different when . it any different when. completely different because

what these conversion therapy bands so—called do around the planet is this they to any doctors such those practising at the tavistock the uk's premier gender clinic had to be closed because it was quote not safe. they say to these doctors , if they say to these doctors, if you talk to a child about gender identity, their of whether they're a boy or girl and you do anything other than accept that child self—diagnose says then you're guilty of conversion therapy and what that means is that a doctor who's dealing with a child or many of these children are autistic or they looked after children many of them grow up to be gay . if them grow up to be gay. if a doctor does their job, they're made a criminal by these . so in made a criminal by these. so in other words, any kind of explorative therapy, you know, someone, a child comes along and says, i think i'm in the wrong body. you're suggesting that the doctor would affirm that doctor would have to affirm that unquestioningly , even though unquestioningly, even though that they might be gay, might be autistic, other things autistic, all those other things that happening. absolutely. that are happening. absolutely. and this driven by extreme

and this is driven by extreme chemist's, child sex change, charity . it's like mermaids charity. it's like mermaids who've had a malign influence at the tavistock as far back as 2018. dr. david bell wrote that the clinic dealing with homophobic parents it was deaung homophobic parents it was dealing with children who were deaung dealing with children who were dealing internalised homophobia their own sense of discomfort being gay and the staff there were placating charities like mermaids . so were placating charities like mermaids. so what these sorts of bills do that well it really they say they prevent conversion therapy but they fuel the problem. they claim to solve and they create gay conversion by genden they create gay conversion by gender. and that's what's going on with these bills. so why then rishi sunak saying, well, we'll we'll put a ban on explorative therapy for children struggling with gender? well it's a really, really good question . a number really good question. a number of also the gay men's network from fantastic organisation sex, transgender and lesbian labour lots of organisations you'll nofice lots of organisations you'll notice lots of gay organisations made this point and the previous

administration accepted the point and said we're not going to go ahead with this ban because we don't want to make criminals of doctors. and we've got tread very carefully got to tread very carefully when. at autistic when. we're looking at autistic kids, after kids . we kids, gay looked after kids. we could from the could involve us from the government. who say that government. now who say that they're bringing back in in they're bringing this back in in they're bringing this back in in the week that they're the same week that they're challenging wonder challenging scotland. i wonder if two connected and if the two are connected and could connected? is it could they be connected? is it cops? political trade cops? there's a political trade off here and there's off going on here and there's now circulating now wild rumours circulating around that there's around westminster that there's going sort of going to be some sort of modified tries to deal modified ban that tries to deal with concerns, but we don't with our concerns, but we don't know that's true or not so know if that's true or not so it's very worrying a lot it's very worrying for a lot of gay a lot gay gay people, a lot of gay activists looking at this . what activists looking at this. what we're there's going we're hearing is there's going be a ban, but it's going to exempt it's going to exempt exempt and it's going to exempt parents. that no sense parents. but that makes no sense because. it's okay for a because. if it's okay for a doctor to in a surgery doctor to say it's in a surgery why is it not okay for someone else to say? then if you if else to say? but then if you if were a trans person who'd gone all of these procedures often very painful, expensive and difficult procedures to do, and then someone tried forcibly then someone tried to forcibly change identity . that would

change your identity. that would be a problem, wouldn't it? yeah, of course it would. it doesn't happen. there is no such thing as trans conversion therapy . as trans conversion therapy. bills are aimed doing their the idea that these going around desperately trying to violently persuade trans people not to be trans is a fantasy. persuade trans people not to be trans is a fantasy . whole thing trans is a fantasy. whole thing is a fantasy . trans is a fantasy. whole thing is a fantasy. i'll tell you what, there is a history of there's a history of gay conversion therapy. there's a history as of homosexual men like me being wired up to electrodes of lesbians being correctly . this is our issue. correctly. this is our issue. that's all painful history as ever. that's all painful history as ever . it's that's all painful history as ever. it's being that's all painful history as ever . it's being forced, that's all painful history as ever. it's being forced, teamed with the trans issue and what's happening , of course is that the happening, of course is that the concerns of gay people coming absolutely lost. so this is really interesting, isn't it, that the significant a significant majority of those kids who struggle with gender as kids who struggle with gender as kids turn out to be gay later life as adults. so therefore, if you are if you are affirming those innocent feelings , you are those innocent feelings, you are effectively fixing a gay child.

yes, that's right . you're what yes, that's right. you're what you're doing is you're saying let's look first. first, what's the diagnostic criteria? it's own little journey played with the wrong toys. he like barbie. so that's facile and it's homophobic because vast majority, gender non—conforming kids do grow up to , be gay. and kids do grow up to, be gay. and as you've pointed out, that the next thing that happens in a research environment, in a clinical environment is these children are put in a place where they are told surgical correction and only serious medication that will render them infertile , will render them infertile, will render them sterile or will destroy their sexual function . only that is sexual function. only that is the answer . sexual function. only that is the answer. this is madness . the answer. this is madness. this is madness. we have recreated gay conversion therapy under the banner of gender. this is, i think, the most difficult time, the most dangerous time for any child to grow up gay. right dennis kavanagh, thank you very much for joining right dennis kavanagh, thank you very much forjoining us right dennis kavanagh, thank you very much for joining us tonight from taking and after the break, jeremy clarkson has found itself

in trouble since writing a column about the duchess sussex, which some commentators went too far. but has there been an overreaction? tom slater from will be here to discuss .

welcome back to free speech nation. high profile broadcaster jeremy clarkson set to lose his tv shows on amazon prime after he was widely criticised for a column he wrote in the sun about the duchess of sussex. among other remarks , said he hated other remarks, said he hated markle and dreamt of the day she was made to operate naked through the streets while crowds chanted at her. he has publicly apologised for the column but in the fury that followed the remarks. amazon reportedly remarks. amazon have reportedly decided renew clarkson's decided not to renew clarkson's shows , although a spokesman shows, although a spokesman denied the events were connected. tom slater , the connected. tom slater, the editor of spiked, wrote about this for the spectator this week

and he joins me now. tom welcome to the show. some of the to the show. now, some of the remarks seem pretty harsh, didn't when to didn't they, when it came to meghan what was going on meghan markle? what was going on there? i think it was a botched joke, effectively , the sort of joke, effectively, the sort of outrageous thing that jeremy clarkson is paid to say is that you're you know, this is his you're not you know, this is his brand. this is what he does. and i think what seemed happen here was didn't really land. was he just didn't really land. it even spoken in some of his it is even spoken in some of his apologies about how the fact that really feel like that he didn't really feel like he pulled that one off. i think the problem is, is that there is a startling level of hypocrisy in this because in the end of this because i think anyone who read that think anyone who would read that column, they offended column, they might be offended by by they, by them, might be upset by they, might thought it had gone too far. but i don't think it's a fair read to say this is wilful of violence against women or markle it's always markle or anyone. it's always a kind and whether you kind of wilful. and whether you like or not, up to you. but like that or not, up to you. but i think should i don't think that should justify to be justify calls for people to be sacked i got it as a joke sacked and i got it as a joke straight away because i the game of thrones reference is a to cersei lannister walking through the where people the town naked where people

chant the chant shame. that's that was the reference was reference and it was deliberately hyperbolic for shock effect and sure i'm with people that's people who say that's distasteful, offensive, people who say that's dist it's ful, offensive, people who say that's dist it's ful, have ensive, people who say that's dist it's ful, have these but it's actually have these ramifications. denying ramifications. they're denying it. does look like it. but it does look like clarkson's and the clarkson's farm and the grand tour jeremy show tour. both jeremy clarkson show is be ditched now, is is going to be ditched now, is that right? well, seems be that right? well, that seems be the a variety last the report is a variety last week suggesting these shows week suggesting that these shows were chop. there's been were for the chop. there's been since suggesting there since suggesting that there might actually commercial calculations going on here than i do performing and so on. i don't think you can whilst with all of that will come out in the wash, don't think we deny wash, i don't think we can deny that campaigns are getting that the campaigns are getting cancelled. clearly cancelled. was very clearly and towards this towards kicking him off of this particular shows and even in some are talking some cases people are talking for chris packham, formerly the bbc that he bbc spoke about the fact that he should prosecuted should be prosecuted for this. so think whatever so i don't think whatever happens the end of this, we happens in the end of this, we can't say was just a case can't say this was just a case of companies taking of these companies taking decisions, a vacuum. i mean, that's come to be quite normal. now, that people now, the idea that people are for be prosecuted. for people to be prosecuted. when made her joke when jerry brown made herjoke people as people said she should be as well. that to be the go to well. that seems to be the go to why have we reached this point in where we can't just

in society where we can't just say that really hideous say i find that really hideous and offensive. dislike and offensive. i really dislike that, know, got my that, you know, i've got my right criticise it rather right to criticise it rather than let's phone the police, let's person sacked. let's have this person sacked. why is that? now the go to thing, it's the million dollar question, why ended question, isn't it? why we ended up completely abandoning all of those liberal principles, those proper liberal principles, which by exactly those proper liberal principles, whiciyou by exactly those proper liberal principles, whiciyou say. by exactly those proper liberal principles, whiciyou say. i by exactly those proper liberal principles, whiciyou say. i mean,y exactly those proper liberal principles, whiciyou say. i mean, people .y what you say. i mean, people kind confuse their own taste kind of confuse their own taste and kind of level with and their own kind of level with when met with when something should met with the of the law. these the full force of the law. these two things should not necessarily be equated. but i'm glad up brown, glad you brought up joe brown, because a perfect because i think that's a perfect example of the thing example of the sort of thing that we're talking about. when she made that joke 2019 she made that joke back in 2019 about, you know, throwing battery acid on nigel farage, i don't think anyone could literally that think literally hear that and think she inciting against she is inciting violence against nigel another nigel farage. it was another case joke that didn't land, case of a joke that didn't land, that upset certain that that upset certain people that hyperbolic to express her dislike particular dislike of a particular individual. any individual. how is this any different? i going different? and i think going forward can forward one way that we can start push back cancel start to push back cancel culture for anyone who's culture is for anyone who's critical of it to sure you critical of it to make sure you defend people from defend of those people from different in all different tribes in all instances. weapons different tribes in all instanto;. weapons different tribes in all instanto be weapons different tribes in all instanto be wielded weapons different tribes in all instanto be wielded timezapons different tribes in all

instanto be wielded time and ns going to be wielded time and time again? so consistency, in other is part of the other words, is part of the problem do have laws on problem that we do have laws on the books that the statute books that criminalise people for being offensive. prime? offensive. isn't that the prime? shouldn't we get of shouldn't we just get rid of them? think that's them? i think i think that's part the fact part of the problem. the fact that cancel culture exists also flows from the fact that we have hate laws, that we have hate speech laws, that we have laws restrict speech and laws that restrict speech and all of way. all different kinds of way. people well, people people will say, well, if people can locked for saying can be locked for saying something should something offensive, why should they sacked for they at least be sacked for saying something offensive? so you win the argument you do have to win the argument more i think the more broadly. i think the problem culture, problem with cancel culture, which so which is what which makes it so which is what the case really is an the clarkson case really is an example fact that example of, is the fact that it's attempts to punish it's the attempts to punish people kind of outside the frame of we get them of the law. can we get them sacked? can them sacked? can we get them demonised as can we get them on person? yes, that's slippery person? yes, that's a slippery thing about. it thing to argue about. it definitely stems from the same thing to argue about. it definiitly stems from the same thing to argue about. it defini it feelsms from the same thing to argue about. it defini it feels tribalm the same thing to argue about. it defini it feels tribal because me when it feels tribal because i can't help but notice that the people haven't heard people i haven't heard many voices say i really hated what clark's found that clark's had to say. i found that horrible, but i don't want him to be sacked. i haven't heard much you know, it's much of that. you know, it's just a of to exploit just been a sort of to exploit the system to someone

the system to get someone silenced. completely. silenced. no, completely. and people knowingly and people this knowingly and wilfully. think all wilfully. and i think with all of the standards in this, i think just explodes idea think it just explodes the idea that about anything that this is about anything other than to down other than trying to bring down someone people don't someone who some people don't and this case and who was in this case criticising a fake meghan criticising a fake of meghan markle, you know, risen markle, who is, you know, risen to secular sainthood in to sort of secular sainthood in certain quarters. mean, it was certain quarters. i mean, it was fascinating. clearly fascinating. she clearly a web mp leicester signed that mp for leicester signed that letter about employees letter about 60 employees writing to the on sunday writing to the sun on sunday condemning column, saying condemning the column, saying you and you should be punished and so on. who was again actually taken for and given suspended on. who was again actually taken for fori given suspended on. who was again actually taken for for harassmentanded on. who was again actually taken for for harassment fored on. who was again actually taken for for harassment for to sentence for harassment for to acid someone. you acid attack someone. so, you know realise the double know when you realise the double standards all of standards in all of this, all of the of high minded rhetoric the kind of high minded rhetoric about for things about accountability for things that we that people have said we shouldn't use our language to so that you'd start that that's that you'd start see that that's not game that's being not really the game that's being played get away played here we need to get away from so need to recognise from that. so need to recognise those think those double standards. i think i principled case and i make a principled case and then we might start to be getting some more interesting. that's politicians that's coming from politicians as that's very bizarre. as well as that's very bizarre. tom thank much tom slater, thank you so much for really forjoining me today. really good to and that's all got good day to and that's all got time for this first hour of the

show. but there is plenty more to it's going to include to come. it's going to include lots questions our lots of questions from our beautiful audience. and beautiful studio audience. and i'll josh i'll have my panellist josh howie spencer in howie and diane spencer back in the of that is coming the room. all of that is coming up the break. not go up after the break. do not go anywhere .

plenty more still to come on. free speech nation this week, including more questions from audience. a discussion about the hugely worrying rise in police violence women. plus, social sensations and unfiltered dilemmas . sensations and unfiltered dilemmas. but first, let's get the latest news . tatiana sanchez the latest news. tatiana sanchez . andrew you very much. this is the latest from the gb news room. a gunman is still on the loose in california after killing at least ten people at a chinese lunar new year festival . thousands of people have been

gathering in the city of monterey park near los angeles when a man opened, injuring another ten people. at least one is in a critical condition in hospital officials say still unknown whether the attack was racially motivated. the la. county sheriff says we need to get this person off the street as soon as possible. very preliminary description has been described as a male asian interview in victims and witnesses. we've gotten different descriptions of one suspect. so when i say it's preliminary, please again, be patient with us. we are here to tell you that we are every resource to apprehend this suspect in what we to be one of the county's most heinous cases . meanwhile, a cabinet minister has told gb news nadeem has the prime minister's support following allegations about his tax affairs. the conservative

party chairman admitted he reached a settlement with hmrc believed to be reached a settlement with hmrc believed to b e £5 million, believed to be £5 million, following an error . a following an error. a multi—million pound shareholder and the polling company yougov. labour has called his position untenable, but the foreign secretary , james cleverly says secretary, james cleverly says he believes mr. zahawi has paid his taxes . i he believes mr. zahawi has paid his taxes. i do he believes mr. zahawi has paid his taxes . i do know he believes mr. zahawi has paid his taxes. i do know any more details than what he has already put in the public domain. i don't think it would be right or proper for me to just to speculate or guess about any further details about his tax affairs. but he been a successful entrepreneur building a company which has paid tax, employing people who have taxes. and he has himself tax and a considerable amount because he's been successful . at least been successful. at least hundred and 80 migrants have arrived in the uk on ten small boats overnight , arrived in the uk on ten small boats overnight, making it the busiest day of channel so far this year. gb news understands a few other small boats have also set off this morning, but they

haven't yet made it to the uk. the were monitored by french naval which only intervene if the get into difficulties . the get into difficulties. today's arrivals bring the total number of those crossing the channel. this year to 530 . channel. this year to 530. family, friends and fans have gathered to attend a memorial service for lisa marie presley held at her father's estate in. memphis, tennessee. the us singer and only child of elvis presley is being laid to rest at the graceland mansion she inherited from her rock and roll father. she died on the 12th of january after reportedly suffering a cardiac arrest at her home. she was 54. among those who paid tribute to the duchess of york and lisa marie's mother, priscilla who called her anicon mother, priscilla who called her an icon and a superhero . tv an icon and a superhero. tv onune an icon and a superhero. tv online and dab radio. this is.

gb news. welcome back to free staycation. well, this wonderful beautiful studio audience here would a shame to waste them. so let's get some questions them. i'm going to start with heather, whereas heather. hello, heather. what's your question? does the bbc not value all the presenters? does the bbc value all the presenters? okay well, they've been criticised this week because ken bruce announced he's leaving radio two and he's been presenting for decades . and been presenting for decades. and we've also had former bbc presenter vanessa feltz claiming that at the bbc older presenters aren't valued in the same way . aren't valued in the same way. do they have a point? josh well, yes . in other words, yeah. yes. in other words, yeah. ageism yeah. but then they're trying to sort save themselves. is the idea of the bbc to they they're trying to appeal to a younger audience. yeah. they're obsessed with it. and when i say youngenl obsessed with it. and when i say younger, i mean people over 50. people over 50. exactly at the point that like most of the for

instance, radio four, certainly the listenership, their older demographic. in fact , when you demographic. in fact, when you say that the older demographic are sustaining also are sustaining bbc, they also stayed the bbc . but at the stayed in the bbc. but at the same time , you want to get a new same time, you want to get a new viewership in. you can't just kind of stick with your group viewership in. you can't just kindthen:ick with your group viewership in. you can't just kindthen neverth your group viewership in. you can't just kindthen never inviter group viewership in. you can't just kindthen never invite anybody and then never invite anybody new club because new to your club because eventually everybody your club is going to drop dead. it's just eventually everybody your club is gway to drop dead. it's just eventually everybody your club is gway of drop dead. it's just eventually everybody your club is gway of life.» dead. it's just eventually everybody your club is gway of life.» detheyt's just eventually everybody your club is gway of life.» dethey doiust eventually everybody your club is gway of life.» dethey do need the way of life. so they do need to get people in who might have slightly like more younger taste . of the people who are . but some of the people who are coming in, they're not like they give the impression . vanessa give the impression. vanessa feltz the impression feltz gives the impression that it's year that are it's like 13 year olds that are coming running in. coming and running in. no, you've like michelle you've got people like michelle visage, wondrous and she's visage, who's wondrous and she's 54 and fabulous and she's coming . and scott mills, he's 49. so i don't think it's ages . i think don't think it's ages. i think there's a lot of different factors involved here. i'd say one more thing about course. i mean, i know a bunch of people who at the bbc and who like who work at the bbc and who like they reports they get these reports constantly. are absolutely constantly. they are absolutely obsessed. this obsessed. they're like, this really like got people really is both like got people under 30 watching telly under 30 on watching telly anymore this. the point anymore and all this. the point is find like radio

is you find these like radio four you get to the four when you get to the appropriate , it's wrong you appropriate, it's wrong when you meet who's in there, meet someone who's in there, who's who listens radio who's 18, who listens to radio four. who's18, who listens to radio four. yes, definitely confer. and flicking through and you're flicking through whatever. and you'll go, oh , is whatever. and you'll go, oh, is an interesting conversation. and is how it changes. as long as they keep quality. that's true. doesn't matter. you'll find they'll their audience . but they'll find their audience. but i grow up and i mean, people grow up and i used listen radio four when used to listen radio four when i was is exactly my point was 18. this is exactly my point . this is like the point you're making there. josh anyway, we've got an email question now . this got an email question now. this is come in from jay in regina said should councils be spending money on royal murals. okay well i saw this mural you're referring to the one in northampton. they spen t £2,000. northampton. they spent £2,000. do we have an image of this mural? this is the picture of king charles and his mother, queen elizabeth. the second. we'll that second. but we'll get that in a second. but it's been described as looking more like a spitting image poppins a bit harsh on poppins or she's a bit harsh on the artist. oh, mean, the artist. oh, yes. i mean, we're just looking it right now. diane, think that looks diane, do you think that looks like spitting image? do you think you

think it really does? and you know i mean? there's so know what i mean? there's so much with it . what is much wrong with it. what is exciting about , though, is rishi exciting about, though, is rishi soon i want him to stare at that mural because this what you are going to get if you make children take matches till they're 18 and you don't pay attention to the. yes. this is going to end up i feel a bit bad for the artist. i mean, because we're all saying this is not very good. maybe maybe it's deliberate. maybe trying to be funny. he's rubbish. it's rubbish. yeah. i mean, that's how is. money goe s £3,000 is. how he is. money goes £3,000 is. i thought it was alread y £1,800. i thought it was already £1,800. oh, that's okay then. yeah, but my point is this, that the guy who paid for it , he had a £3,000 who paid for it, he had a £3,000 budget, 1800 was on spray painting that. i think the other 1200 is going to have to be on remove it. and i'm that very harsh response the panel here but i think that's probably accurate. we're going to get back to the audience for a question. this is from isabel, where is isabel? i'm right here. you have? yeah, as it were, to call our colleague, a mate ?

call our colleague, a mate? yeah, mate . i heard about this. yeah, mate. i heard about this. i'm sure you all did. home office staff were told to avoid words like, mate when speaking with colleagues . and this was with colleagues. and this was a new guidance from the government saying that it's actually kind of alien for people with different gender identity and that kind of thing. but it's very laddish, isn't it? but it wasn't the wasn't guidance by the government. like an government. it was like an internal group giving a right sort lesson of what they of sort of lesson of what they of pc language, of course. yes but i think but what the group was to do, because they're really trying to push like and they them and whatnot. yeah. and i think that they were and they didn't reason for this didn't give a reason for this whole mate. but i'm whole using mate. but i'm guessing because they think guessing it's because they think mate is associated with male. but i use mate but actually, i use mate continuously regardless of sex. what do you think might. well i don't know, darling . i mean, the don't know, darling. i mean, the point is, sweetheart , is that as point is, sweetheart, is that as long as you're polite to work colleagues , i don't think it colleagues, i don't think it really matters, does it ? treacle really matters, does it? treacle ties. really matters, does it? treacle fies.the really matters, does it? treacle ties. the thing is, mate , is my

ties. the thing is, mate, is my ever hostile? i suppose it could be. mate can be hostile. depends on the tone. doesn't it. yes. you want to watch it, mate? yeah, you've got it. look. oh, but with that straight away, i was in a car park. it was fabulous. you yeah, but there's like, for example, on youtube, everybody who starts the video, they usually start the video with, hey, guys , let me see with, hey, guys, let me see who's watching. just hey, guys , who's watching. just hey, guys, that's the group. but this is the home office. yes. so you do expect them to have a bit of decorum, i suppose if this wasn't decorum, this is wasn't about decorum, this is about wasn't about offence, wasn't it wasn't really decorum , but knows? really decorum, but who knows? anyway, another email anyway, we've got another email question now. this is come in from robert. robert says, is from robert. robert says, it is bringing the office as bringing cake into the office as bad passive. and that sounds bad as passive. and that sounds like stupid question . the chair like stupid question. the chair of the food standards agency said that bringing cake into the office is the same as passive smoking this summer. professor susan jebb . and the thing is, it susan jebb. and the thing is, it is. i remember being a schoolteacher and there was they always on monday brought in these massive cakes and we had very plump staff and but the

thing is that was quite nice. it festive the whole year round everyone. what's wrong with that? no, it what she's she's not doing a direct she's comparing it. you're not saying they're exactly same. okay. i think she's frustrated because there is a real issue of overeating in this country and eating sugar food. the eating sugar is food. and the and there's a lot of this legislation that keeps on getting pushed back. right. so i think she's it to sort of make it to be alarmist as a comparison. yeah, because i mean, a passive smoking kills passive cake eating. yes but there a slight difference there is a slight difference here she does draw the here because she does draw the parallel smoking parallel between smoking and eating. you have to eat. you eating. but you have to eat. you do not have to smoke. you have to be , though. you don't have to to be, though. you don't have to eat , but do have to eat cake, but you do have to eat. if you don't enough, eat. and if you don't enough, you start to crave you can then start to crave sugar and that fat and things like, especially if you're on a diet it's all about diet and it's all about self—control, is but self—control, is it? but you know, i remember at school know, i remember being at school where pressure to where there was pressure to smoke, i said peer smoke, whether i said peer pressure to cake. is it like have this bamberger on. well give first for free.

give you the first one for free. i know. i'm bringing i don't know. i'm bringing out all books you by now. all the books in you by now. yeah, but also i did read a study somewhere where if you have overweight or morbidly obese more obese friends, you're more likely overweight or more likely to be overweight or more . that's why don't hang out with fat that , by the way, fat people that, by the way, i've got my son's cake if anyone wants . okay we got another wants. okay we got another question. this came in from our twitter feed. thank you, for rebecca, in. rebecca says it a problem. if you drink more than two bottles of beer a week, that's. no, that strikes me as monastic more than anything, that's not a problem. but experts apparently are saying the british people should limit themselves two bottles themselves to just two bottles of a week. has of beer. a week. this has followed guidance from canada. of course, it come from canada, too, that's nothing . yeah, i too, but that's nothing. yeah, i mean, especially i like to have i actually have about three bottles of beer. i like to have it have heroin. i wash it it when i have heroin. i wash it down. yeah. just a bit dry now , down. yeah. just a bit dry now, this is this is ridiculous. and, and, and this is canada now . and, and this is canada now. they are this has got to become it's going to be like the worst

place in the world to live if it's not already as things are going. yeah yeah. trying to going. yeah but yeah. trying to tell that you've tell british people that you've got stay down to two. but got to stay down to two. but that's luck that that's good luck with that but that's good luck with that but that's the other thing. i mean no one's got to take that seriously, but it just seems like a week is like two bottles a week is really restrain the really restrain and like the temperance would temperance movement would have been that. but you been happy with that. but you know, get it. the alcohol know, i, i get it. the alcohol can cause problems, but there's a have a difference here. we have a very big difference between canada canada it is canada because canada it is legal marijuana. and if legal to smoke marijuana. and if you're away you're going to take away people's relax at the people's ability to relax at the end the day, if you're going end of the day, if you're going to take away that bottle of been to take away that bottle of beer, which is kind of just to relax, you just oh, it's just good to have a beer. what are you replace with? you going to replace it with? and canada marijuana. but we and canada has marijuana. but we don't doesn't down don't it doesn't come down down to of people in terms to a mistrust of people in terms of willpower. you know of their own willpower. you know it's saying we're trying it's just saying we're trying to restrict it because they don't trust can have one trust that some can have one beer an evening. have to beer of an evening. they have to have they have have have two they have to have three. have for what. three. they have to for what. but think that's a load of but i think that's a load of rubbish. i don't know why they think people can't

think that people can't themselves. think it's fair themselves. i think it's fair enough people enough to sort of say to people by way, if do have six by the way, if do have six bottles wine a week, you'll bottles of wine a week, you'll probably with a liver probably end up with a liver problem. that's problem. i think that's absolutely fine to say, but problem. i think that's alyomtely fine to say, but problem. i think that's alyou it's' fine to say, but problem. i think that's alyou it's' fine tyou say, but problem. i think that's alyou it's' fine tyou actuallyut if you it's when you actually start bans people start imposing bans on people also to be realistic to also it's got to be realistic to paups also it's got to be realistic to paul's that's not paul's way. that's not realistic. we're realistic. anyway, we're going to a question from to move on to a question from twitter. is duncan. twitter. again, this is duncan. hello, duncan. duncan says should we be sanitising shakespeare for a modern audience? i read this article this week. this was a the artistic director of the globe theatre, michelle terry. she's this weird it. she this is a weird angle on it. she says she's worried that by says that she's worried that by changing the changing shakespeare in the way that may be that they do, they may be putting way because putting in harm's way because the theatres the theatres have been lots woke been putting on lots of woke versions romeo and versions of plays like romeo and juliet, and juliet juliet, the romeo and juliet production they did recently had a warning and had a content warning and had suicide helplines projected up on screen back of it. on the screen at the back of it. this i don't go to the this is why i don't go to the theatre it theatre anymore, because it feels lecture. but feels like a lecture. but she says on social media says that the on social media can be really ugly and the performers are subject abuse. performers are subject to abuse. but shouldn't they just put on shakespeare? but shouldn't they just put on sisounds are? but shouldn't they just put on sisounds like it's the audience it sounds like it's the audience that needs protection, right? yes these on the stuff and yes these play on the stuff and i read this article and it really wound me up because it's

this classic thing of equating a lot people online not abusively complain but to like this is going to happen real world vile ends, whereas actually see real hatred from an aim towards gender critical people and then going into violence. but the other way round the guy oh of our our actors are going to be attacked because people disagree with this position . it's just with this position. it's just not it's not going to happen. exactly. these tweets of nonbinary joan of arc show was rubbish. yeah, that's violence against our our actors guys. they should try having a youtube channel. yeah exactly . just read channel. yeah exactly. just read all tweets. it's fabulous . no, channel. yeah exactly. just read all tweets. it's fabulous. no, i think it's a load of rubbish because like i think it's presumptuous because if they're putting up a suicide hotline at the end of romeo and juliet they are assuming that they're acting so good that you are going to think about suicide , i'm like, think about suicide, i'm like, no, no . like i want to see the no, no. like i want to see the acting first because i've seen

some pretty bad shaking . it's some pretty bad shaking. it's also quite patronising the idea of putting a content warning on, on, on shakespeare tragedy and saying there might be some death and then there might be some violence in this. mean, violence in this. i mean, people, know, might people, you know, there might some yeah, yeah , some old language. yeah, yeah, it might tights, but i think it might be tights, but i think we know we know that anita anyway , we've got another anyway, we've got another question now. this one is from a thomas in the audience. hello. hi, i'm are you surprised, jacinda is stepping down? yeah this was surprising announcement from new zealand week. jacinda ardern announced she was standing down as prime minister in five and a half years. she she doesn't have enough in the tank so she burnt out. right. is that right josh. is that fair. she's a burnt out. yeah she's going to go to ukraine now. it's anyone who follows new zealand politics that actually she's probably going to be out, right? yeah, but it's obvious that it's taking its toll now , hesitate to taking its toll now, hesitate to say this because then i'll be accused of being a misogynist. but i'd say you look, you but i'd say if you look, you know, obama, look his

know, with obama, look at his hair of his office, hair at the end of his office, he from sort of to he went from sort of brown to like one shirt. yeah, you look at of her five and a half at photos of her five and a half years ago. has taken a lot years ago. it has taken a lot out of her. yeah, there's no doubt. a young doubt. and she's got a young child, has doing child, so how she has been doing it amazing . child, so how she has been doing it amazing. it's child, so how she has been doing it amazing . it's look, it's it is amazing. it's look, it's no one is denying that she's a human being. it's stressful human being. it's a stressful job. it is. but, you job. of course it is. but, you know, the trouble with jacinda ardern, of course, is she's pursued policies pursued so sort of policies which lots of which have alienated lots of voters policies . the voters very woke policies. the lockdown so severe that lockdown was so severe that people are now reacting against it. so we thought, well, this is really about, you know, she's just part it is about just i think part of it is about she's before she's pushed. yeah, but in order to have a but also in order to have a successful leadership that doesn't drain you absolutely dry you have a very good you need to have a very good team behind you and you need to be to trust that team to be willing to trust that team to spread message and spread the message out. and everybody on board everybody needs to be on board if that, then you can if you like that, then you can keep sort for a very long keep going sort for a very long time. noticed putin time. like we noticed that putin doesn't sadly doesn't get burnt out. sadly because everybody is on board with the message . yes, there's with the message. yes, there's a reason for but yeah i think it's

a case of jumping before you. well that seems to be the consensus here. well, anyway, we've got go break now. we've got to go to a break now. but after the break free but after the break on free speech director of speech nation the director of four women will here four women scotland will be here to she thinks about to tell us what she thinks about gender recognition and reform. bill, couple of bill, see you in a couple of minutes . oh, bill, see you in a couple of minutes. oh, mark dolan tonight. my martin guest is one of the most experienced in the country. lord peter leslie, who served under margaret thatcher and john, what does he make ? rishi john, what does he make? rishi sunak sunak and the current conservative plus his views brexit, the economy and illegal immigration. brexit, the economy and illegal immigration . and in my big immigration. and in my big opinion monologue , when did opinion monologue, when did standing up for women's hard won sex based rights make you a bad person? plus tomorrow's papers and my all star panel will live from .

nine welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew doyle . nation with me andrew doyle. earlier on in the program we will rishi sunak's move to block the snp's gender reform bill. on saturday, hundreds gathered in glasgow to protest against the blocking of the bill. but we've also seen many protesting against the. so here to give us against the. so here to give us a scottish perspective is susan smith , co—director of full smith, co—director of full women's scotland , a women's women's scotland, a women's group who are working to protect and strengthen and children's rights. thanks . joining rights. susan, thanks. joining me . i want to ask you first me. i want to ask you first before having to bill and what is what are your principal oppositions this . bill oppositions this. bill principally because it opens this process that was limited to a very small number of people , a very small number of people, just about anybody . and there's just about anybody. and there's

no safeguards around whatsoever. and i think, you know, then you start to get these more more intense questions , whether or intense questions, whether or not actually in law we should be allowing people change sex which is a protected characteristics because of the impact it has on other and what we and we both should a judicial review last year and the ruling said that when a person gets they change their sex under the equality act for all purposes. so their sex under the equality act for all purposes . so that's for all purposes. so that's a massive thing if you're allowing just anybody to walk up and their sex, you ought to least in their sex, you ought to least in the protections that are available for women and not just protect things like data collection , policy planning , collection, policy planning, looking at things like gender pay gap looking at things like gender pay gap and so on. all of that stuff. just becomes meaningless and the more people can take advantage to this. i've been reading a lot about the debates that happened in the scottish parliament, the snp saying that

they had rigorous debate , but they had rigorous debate, but then at the same time nicola sturgeon's saying that views sturgeon's saying that the views of feminists around this issue have merit . and that doesn't have no merit. and that doesn't sound like a serious debate. does just completely does it? if you just completely dismiss alternative view? dismiss the alternative view? what experience being what does your experience being of present your view of trying to present your view to the snp? oh, it's been awful. so have we have spoken to ten ministers who basically leading on this? the first one was shirley ann somerville and my colleagues took pages. i pages and pages was more the questions and pages was more the questions and into her and said look these are the things need to address these are some of the issues that some of them were less important than others , but they important than others, but they were crucial things about what you glc to do, you understand the glc to do, which they continued not to answer . and which they continued not to answer. and their current minister shane robinson refused to answer that and they kept on saying it doesn't change people's access to any programmes or services or

anything like that. it doesn't anything. and then they went court and i'll detail it and they all quite actually same case that the hrc them a year ago they said you are expanding this we think it's a problem we think it changes people's rights . the scottish government said, no, no, no, no, it doesn't. and then they went to court and make that argument. so they've been they've spinning two they've been spinning two different stories the whole way through so many when we through and so many when we encountered the civil servants and the ministers , they really and the ministers, they really didn't seem to have a clue what was about or what they were doing or things be interconnected and how you can have unintended consequence sets and how you have to look around for things. and they did not even look at the cross—border , even look at the cross—border, which was one of the things that the uk government were not happy about rightly . they they had the about rightly. they they had the superficial and amateurish to this bill and i think it's been a shocking reflection on how

scotland's government. i mean, isn't one of the problems you say that a lot of people just don't understand the issues. i couldn't help but notice that some debates the some of the debates in the london parliament about all of this have descended into sloganeering shouting and sloganeering and shouting and that whenever we've heard women who are concerned the single sex space is and the threat that it poses to women's rights to have gender self id . you've had gender self id. you've had politicians male politicians i should say , shouting at them should say, shouting at them saying this is a transphobic dog whistle, saying this is all about and i'm you've had those kind of accusations yourself. what do you make of that ? it's what do you make of that? it's you know, after a while, you start to get to it. but i'm not sure . you should become sure. you should become desensitised it. but you do . and desensitised it. but you do. and yeah, there are some there some politicians in hollywood who have made some really actually outrageous , disgusting comments outrageous, disgusting comments about women who are opposed to this bill. and you know, they seem to think that if it were

deleted and was worth actively evil and they whip up a lot of hostility , you know, we saw hostility, you know, we saw turning out that they're mowing this week and there were signs , this week and there were signs, which i'm sure you've seen in the press saying things like decapitate terfs and they shouldn't look normalise . just shouldn't look normalise. just nobody should be normalising sort of behaviour and nobody should be excusing it but . they should be excusing it but. they are. and a lot of the people who are. and a lot of the people who are very involved in the activism have got track records in making abusive comments, threatening . and it simply not threatening. and it simply not good enough. and it's not good enough for the who are setting up and supporting these rallies not to invest in publicly condemn all of this. that's something i do want to ask you aboutis something i do want to ask you about is the violent rhetoric that's coming from certain activists . you mentioned the activists. you mentioned the sign at protests decapitate sign at the protests decapitate terfs. i think we might have an image of that sign if we could at that, but there were two snp politicians in front of the sign that an activist was holding

saying decapitate . of course, saying decapitate. of course, it is possible that time is perfectly possible that time was put up. they see it was put up. they didn't see it or the rest of it. there's or all the rest of it. there's the that we can see the sign there that we can see now the screen, kind now on the screen, but that kind of violent is again and of violent rhetoric is again and again activists. i know again from activists. i know that one of the activists sitting the during the debate sitting in the during the debate was pictured with an axe on twitter threatening gender critical feminists. what is going on here and why are we seeing this kind of rhetoric and a knife and actually that person was making the speeches at that rally . one of the people who rally. one of the people who were organising the entire rally and the politician is were chumming around . they're all chumming around. they're all very friendly and praising each other and every time they have one of these rallies, there's a there's a hotline , actually, for there's a hotline, actually, for politicians standing that this the picture that's there is just of the two but they're all snp and they all said they didn't see it. no maybe they didn't. but i think if you go to one of

these events , you you have to be these events, you you have to be quite careful if a politician because they're all going to be signs like that and these politicians know that that's a post they're supposed to be aware and that filming was done by the national which is a hugely pro snp public . so hugely pro snp public. so obviously didn't think it was a problem. there organisers putting up pictures , some of putting up pictures, some of those placards before they turned up going oh look at these lovely placards made. and that was one of them. it was front and on some of the and centre on some of the pictures mean find pictures. i mean ijust find rising you can turn, people can say they're turning blind eye to this kind of thing because i keep hearing, oh, there's keep hearing, oh, this there's this on both this violent rhetoric on both sides but object and i would condemn that kind of rhetoric on all sides. but genuinely, when you objectively look at it, i have never seen gender feminists threatened kill anyone or threatened to kill anyone or that kind of thing. and yet i see the time images of see it all the time images of guns things, same kill turf guns and things, same kill turf and this kind of thing. there is and this kind of thing. there is a problem on that that does

a problem on that side that does need to be addressed by the people advocating for people who are advocating for those that they those causes. doesn't that they do. and you know, i think we years ago to an equality network because we've been threatened by singer and headline at trans pride and they then withdrew but some of the people around that went absolutely nuts about her and then started just repeating this and saying you know basically saying what they that kind of thing and we actually wrote to equality network and said we fund funding for said we fund provide funding for this event can you please have a word with these people and they just said oh , we condemn just said oh, we condemn violence but no, we tell people what to say. one of the people actually organising the event was somebody employed by them. so i'm not sure why they couldn't intervene and they offered to sit down with us and explain to us why self—funding wouldn't harm our rights . and we wouldn't harm our rights. and we said well, you know, if you've

got people threatening with violence, i'm sorry. we think that doesn't interfere with our rights. but they were government funded organisation . they were funded organisation. they were not prepared at point to not prepared at that point to step these step in and condemn these threats . so yeah , we're very threats. so yeah, we're very pleased that the government stepped in. actually i don't think they had an option because the scottish government kept being told what they were doing was going to on the equality act. they were told over and over and they didn't listen. i mean, they say they say the weight of evidence was in their favour. well, it was because they had a very biased process. so they invited a load of people who were activists , their side. who were activists, their side. some people weren't particularly senior, some people who worked in knowledgeable in this area . in knowledgeable in this area. you know, they invited a theatre lecturer to, give evidence on statistics because was one of them and didn't sullivan until pressed. so the whole process is being shameful it's been a shocking election. well, susan,

thank so much forjoining us. i really appreciate it. we out of time. thank you. susan smith, thanks , sarah. after the break, thanks, sarah. after the break, free speech nation. the writer juue free speech nation. the writer julie bendle will be here to talk about the hugely concerning rise violence and misogyny rise in violence and misogyny among our police forces. see in among our police forces. see in a minute .

welcome back to free speech nation. i met a police officer david carrick has pleaded guilty to 49 sexual offences including 24 counts of rape spanning over a decade . carrick past the a decade. carrick past the vetting , despite the fact he'd vetting, despite the fact he'd been previously investigate for harassing a former partner before. but it seems may not be an isolated example . police an isolated example. police scotland revealing that 25 officers have been suspended . officers have been suspended. sexual misconduct allegations . sexual misconduct allegations. yesterday, home secretary suella

braverman said public trust in the police is at breaking point. there can be no more excuses someone who has publicly condemned the police and is an outspoken advocate for protecting women's is writer and activist judy bendell. she joins me good evening, judy . me now. good evening, judy. thanks me . this is a thanks forjoining me. this is a very, very serious case. this man , david carrick, passed a man, david carrick, passed a vetting . so is this a problem vetting. so is this a problem thatis vetting. so is this a problem that is within the system that the police are running at the moment ? i mean, it's not just moment? i mean, it's not just about the vetting , about the about the vetting, about the culture within the police service and not just the met, but across the entire service . but across the entire service. it's about hunting culture , the it's about hunting culture, the hunting culture that thought that we hoped had dissipated had changed back in the 1990s, after much chagrin from feminists and from others that saw the system and how it worked and how it operated now. i remember back in the 1980s when i first started working alongside the police as a civilian to persuade them and

to equip them to better understand violence against women . when they went out for women. when they went out for example to a domestic violence call out where they would simply look in the cupboard, see if there was enough checks that the children were okay, but leave them to the perpetrator and tell them to the perpetrator and tell the mother that she shouldn't use such foul language . she use such foul language. she shouldn't be drinking. i mean, awful, we to awful, awful. and what we had to do then was explain that sometimes women angry . they sometimes women are angry. they go these call outs and also go to these call outs and also that the perpetrators will try to get on to charm them, get them on board. to another of board. woman to another of thing. had a double thing. and we had a double whammy at the time because, of course, was the crown course, this was the crown prosecution service was founded. and the police did their own and so the police did their own charging. so we also had to persuade police why they persuade the police why they should actually charge men, even they thought they weren't they thought that they weren't monsters and like monsters and looked like perfectly blokes for perfectly reasonable blokes for rape sexual assault when was rape and sexual assault when was evidence? and now you fast to today and we seem be surprised that these men take advantage of a culture that we have which is

pretty much impunity . there is pretty much impunity. there is an amnesty on at the moment let's not even just look within the police service . let's look the police service. let's look across the board . we have a 1% across the board. we have a 1% conviction rate for rape from reporting to rape . other words, reporting to rape. other words, a fraction of those that are reported and with a guilty conviction , unless 99% of women conviction, unless 99% of women that report rape are making it up.theni that report rape are making it up. then i think we have huge problem. and this, of course, filters down into the police service where they know fine. well not only can they get away with harming women if that happens to be their thing, their leisure activity, something they enjoy doing. but they also have the additional tools to women that if they report them, then they will be in trouble . and we they will be in trouble. and we know from the centre for women's justice, the feminist legal charity, that they have had hundreds of women come forward to report police perpetrated violence against them and some of these women are serving

police officers or where many of the whistleblowers were arrested were pushed out. some of them even criminalised and others, a civil ones who would have been in a very vulnerable position, maybe they'd reported domestic abuse or rape got visited by these men that understand that their warrant card is additional protection for them , gives them protection for them, gives them additional goal to carry out these acts. so the entire root and branch culture of the police service needs to be changed. and it's a real problem, isn't it, judy, because women will rely on the police when are attacked, when they are in situations with domestic violence, and if they can't trust that they can go the police, then this is surely a disaster. women's rights. it is. and in fact, i've engaged as far as i can with , the whole defund as i can with, the whole defund the police arguments about . and the police arguments about. and i'm sympathetic on one level that what we have is a police service rotten to its core. in

my view we need to start over again thinking about to how rebuild it but defunding the police is not going to end up with a kind of happy anarchist society where crimes are committed . and then there's committed. and then there's a trust circle with the victim in the middle , all of the community the middle, all of the community surrounding this victim, talking to the perpetrator about how it's really not very nice to torture, rape and murder women and to beat their female partners. it doesn't work when it comes to violence , women. so it comes to violence, women. so we need to police service because if we didn't have a working functional police services fit for purpose , there services fit for purpose, there would be even more violence against women. and quite frankly , we're at an absolutely obscene level of it right now because of the lack of sanctions . so what i the lack of sanctions. so what i would say we need to do is not appeal to the better judgement of these officers, which i have to say i used to back in the early days. i'd say to them ,

early days. i'd say to them, listen, officer, it's not very nice, is it? can you imagine if your mother was battered, for example or that female friend of and nobody cared about her? surely you need to arrest perpetrator and. and prevent this from happening to again . perpetrator and. and prevent this from happening to again. i would tap into their message often. there was none . not often. there was none. not because they were sociopaths , because they were sociopaths, but because they didn't particularly with these arguments. so what we what we did when we changed our tack is feminist working to improve police practise was that we ensured or tried to that if these police officers reneged their duty neglected the victims of male violence and did nothing to support them. then we've all seen homicides of women where that has played out where the police could have protected them and didn't. what we did was we said there has to be there has to be severe sanctions against officers that reneges on their duty or that commit acts of violence , women themselves. and violence, women themselves. and these sanctions there not being

doctor weeks . it's not just doctor weeks. it's not just being told off being carpeted by their superintendent. it's being sacked. and only then will police officers recognise that they can't do this and get away with it. so i'm this kind of process that you're describing of sort changing the police from within to make it safer for women. that's going to take some time, isn't it but at the moment i note other day that the i note the other day that the head of wimbledon high vanilla kennedy, has her girls at the school not to go to a lone police officer if in trouble. so that's going to create all sorts of problems, isn't at the moment. how do deal with this moment. how do we deal with this if process going take if this process is going to take a time? i mean, it's an a long time? i mean, it's an emergency situation has been for some time . we hear talk about, some time. we hear talk about, you know, a bad apple, the barrel wrong. it has been for so long it's been allowed to . so long it's been allowed to. so what we need to do is impose immediate sanctions . we need to immediate sanctions. we need to look at external reviews, external investigations into ,

external investigations into, poor police practise into the those allegations of abuse. we do want the police to investigate the. they do not it does not work because they will always , always colleagues . we always, always colleagues. we know this from police culture. so external reviews , rigorous so external reviews, rigorous reviews. but we also need do something that should have been done a long time ago , which is done a long time ago, which is make it a safe and, violent for whistleblowers . when somebody whistleblowers. when somebody whether it's a direct victim, a female police officer who's sexually harassed by someone like wayne cozens, someone like david carrick. and we know that these behaviours and it's exactly what happened with these officers. they got away with the low level crimes, they escalated to really serious crimes, including case of course, murder. what we need to do is those whistleblowers want to report problematic behaviour and that can mean misogynistic , that can mean misogynistic, jibing , it can mean literally jibing, it can mean literally

verbal misogyny or through to direct allegation of wrongdoing and sexual . those whistleblowers and sexual. those whistleblowers need to be protected because i'm and tired of hearing of women and tired of hearing of women and some men who've blown the whistle being out of the police service and it serves as a warning to everyone else that wants make an allegation about another officer . we need another officer. we need transparency and. we need to urgently . julie pinto, thank you urgently. julie pinto, thank you very much for joining urgently. julie pinto, thank you very much forjoining me. i just want to ask my panel about that because, you know, it's such a serious issue, isn't it, diane that the culture within the police and, you know, i'm very nervous about trying sort of police people's banter at work, but we're talking about the police force here. so when the police force here. so when the police being casually police force being casually misogynistic, that does matter, doesn't really does doesn't it? it really does matter gives you matter because it gives you a window as to how your colleagues are thinking and. being a woman at this time is very interesting because . when the david carrick because. when the david carrick story came , i literally had the

story came, i literally had the beginning of the news and the beginning of the news and the beginning of the news and the beginning of the news said a serving police officer has been found guilty . and before they found guilty. and before they even said it, i thought he's , even said it, i thought he's, right, somewhat. and i was right . and how can i that shouldn't be that i can that immediately because like said to my husband, i said this is appalling. if i have a burglary in my house and i'll call the police. oh a rapist is turned . so the court rapist is turned. so the court i'm saying it's one of the points i made to julie that, you know, but we do need a police force and. so when people say to me, defund the police get rid of the it's not fit for the police, it's not fit for purpose. i think the alternative is worse way. so how do we is worse in a way. so how do we handle this? as she handle this? well, i, as she says, to be sort of says, it needs to be a sort of a cultural right one of cultural change. right one of the to do is by the ways to do that is by certainly one of these she said, was or that to be was fiery or that has to be a lot more rules. i think protection of , whistle blowers, protection of, whistle blowers, the point about the greater good. think she made loads of good. so think she made loads of great but but there a great points but but there is a real think the government real issue think the government seems finally recognising

seems to be finally recognising that it's that there's issue but it's amazing i how people amazing i mean how many people have forward, how many have to come forward, how many serving to commit rape serving officers to commit rape and kill people before ? like and kill people before? like it's taken this it's ridiculous. it's taken this for them go, oh, now we're for them to go, oh, now we're going look these other going to look at these other people. line people people. is there a line people who harassed by the who have been harassed by the police can call? is police that you can call? is there a specific line or specific like part of the internet that you can write to? and if there is, do people know about no. well, don't. about it? no. well, i don't. okay well, have leave okay well, we'll have to leave it after the break, it there. but after the break, i'm speech it will i'm free speech nation. it will be sensations , be time for social sensations, which include chancellor which will include chancellor hunt cups to , hunt using coffee cups to, explain inflation and. the bbc football show interrupted by the soundtrack to a movie . and we soundtrack to a movie. and we thought we had technical issues here. see you in a .

couple of welcome back to free speech nation. so it's time for social

sensations. that's the part of , sensations. that's the part of, the show where we look at the world of social media and the stories that have captured the imagination of the public. so up chancellor jeremy imagination of the public. so up chancellorjeremy hunt imagination of the public. so up chancellor jeremy hunt found imagination of the public. so up chancellorjeremy hunt found an unusual way to tell the public about the perils of inflation rate hikes. i got a flat white piece while my coffee is being made. let me tell you what we're doing to halve inflation. afraid coffee is getting expensive. a year ago, it would have been aroun d £2.50. but now gone up to around £2.50. but now gone up to nearly around £2.50. but now gone up to nearl y £3 a around £2.50. but now gone up to nearly £3 a cup. and the price of the weekly shop. if you look at food prices gone up by about 16. and for the poorest families, the things they typically buy have gone up by even more . well, if efforts go even more. well, if efforts go how many does anybody else worried that the chancellor can't actually read numbers ? can't actually read numbers? this is can't actually read numbers? this i s £2.50 ish, so that's this is £2.50 ish, so that's £2.56. and then he said it's this is £2.50 ish, so that's £2.56. and then he said it' s £3, £2.56. and then he said it's £3, it's no mite . no, that's £2.86,

it's no mite. no, that's £2.86, you know. diana i say, mate, it's a. great offence. do you have any feelings , jeremy hunt? have any feelings, jeremy hunt? well, first of all, if you watch the full clip, he doesn't actually pay for the coffee, so i cost him nothing . and he i just cost him nothing. and he gets two guys to go with me. he two coffees because he gets handed goes handed his coffee and he goes and up another . it's not and picks up another. it's not you. blooming tory double dipping. also it's not good for the environment. he's wasting a lot of cup, sir. well that's very critical of sutton cop called brexit. oh, for goodness sake . i've got a few minutes sake. i've got a few minutes left on the show. we're not getting into that now, for goodness sake. anyway next up, kim kardashian seems to go viral every week, but even by her usual standards, her makeover as a quote, british caught the imagination . and some look . if imagination. and some look. if you go only on them to , be you go only on them to, be coming in on all about what you've so different. you the

only girl doing grime and i'm to the beat i'm going to i don't really know who she is. i mean. well why she famous ? is that well why why she famous? is that what does? is that what she does? is that what she's for? no. you've she's famous for? no. you've never the kardashians. never heard the kardashians. i've them. don't i've heard of them. but i don't know what do . but i think know what they do. but i think the is that she's somewhat the idea is that she's somewhat i think people are very happy that doing that she's sort of doing this what's called have challenge, what's called a have challenge, where putting where you sort of putting out your tough challenge. where you sort of putting out your you're tough challenge. where you sort of putting out your you're dressing|allenge. where you sort of putting out your you're dressing|alleyou're yeah, you're dressing up. you're putting on really putting your makeup on really badly. dress badly. look i've done just dress as a child. i'm proud. i'm happy to i failed this. as a child. i'm proud. i'm happy to ifailed this. is as a child. i'm proud. i'm happy to i failed this. is it. to say i failed at this. is it. yeah, mean, the irony is, yeah, but i mean, the irony is, is i don't think she is that she i don't think she truly actually was an truly that actually was an acronym for council house and violence for a start it's very close to what it was. yes, yes. actually, i remember about that. yeah. it was an alan jones book. he said that that the he said that that was the because called because he's had book called charms that charms and he mentioned that that think unless i heard that that i think unless i heard it anyway it from somewhere anyway so favourable to the i think it's a quite favourable to the i think it's a quhe book favourable to the i think it's a quite book issue is quite good book but the issue is that essentially taking that she's essentially taking the of the that the mickey out of the way that people they people do their makeup but they do that makeup in that way because they're trying to emulate just very good

emulate her look just very good at emulating she's essentially taking the mick out of people who makeup look who can't do her makeup look very well that's very nice very well that's not very nice is don't think we've got is it? i don't think we've got time for one more social sensation. i this is gary. sensation. i think this is gary. gary of the day . gary lineker, match of the day. gary lineker, match of the day. gary got a surprise gary lineker got a surprise while presenting. have a look on out shortly. we've been fake cup winners only policy in the studio tonight . now tony is studio tonight. now tony is making noise , so i'm not sure making noise, so i'm not sure what is going on. is that what sex sounds like to all the people ? that's quite awful. kind people? that's quite awful. kind of . no, no, not people? that's quite awful. kind of. no, no, not in my house. it's not sound like making balloon animals. that sound terrible. i wonder where that's coming from . some prankster coming from. some prankster snuck a phone in the studio. oh, and then called it was very please themself you the wittiest thing i thought. oh yes i agree didn't think of it. oh yes like hey, just silly isn't it. anyway, look we've got this my .

anyway, look we've got this my. sorry about that. ladies and gents . now we do have time. gents. now we do have time. quickly your unfiltered dilemmas and you send these in every week and you send these in every week and we're very grateful to them. here's one from joe. and joe. my grandma recently passed away, but apparently you can grandma recently passed away, but apparently you ca n £28,000 but apparently you can £28,000 to freeze the body in case she could be brought back to life in the future. does that sound like a good idea isn't that what they did with walt disney? i think it's right. we got last it's that right. we got last week someone, rob reiner, they said about said and were talking about everton person's is alive everton this person's is alive this is a lie . well i suspect this is a lie. well i suspect most these are made up if i have them on. but i mean it's interesting we say that freezing the body before for a time when you could cure death, for instance. yes. be interesting . instance. yes. be interesting. he's saying does it sound like a good mean 28 grand. so you good deal mean 28 grand. so you have to about the cryo have to think about the cryo tube. you have to think about the liquid. you to also the liquid. you have to also think electricity, they think that electricity, they fluctuate and this quiet tube is going to need a certain amount of power to remain and keep your grandma condition and grandma in a condition and before be reanimated .

before she could be reanimated. so 28,000 as long as it doesn't include any in terms the include any in terms of the electric city price probably a good deal depending on how long you can get it for. okay. well, thanks time. we're going to look into very interesting i'll be looking into that next week anyway, us anyway, thank you for joining us for free speech nation. this was the sunni and sturgeon the week when sunni and sturgeon locked constitution . locked their constitution. horns, cake in the office was problematise and the prime minister got in trouble with the law this time for a seatbelt. thank you so much to my panel diane spencer and, josh howie and of my guests this and to all of my guests this evening. and by the way, if you want to us live in the want to join us live in the studio, part of wonderful studio, be part of our wonderful audience. you can easily do that. go to ww dot sro that. just go to ww dot sro audiences .com , come along share audiences .com, come along share the wine and the fun. there's the wine and the fun. there's the address on screen right now and you can apply that all free. so come along. stay tuned, of course, for the brilliant mark dolan tonight. that is next. don't forget the headliners is on every night at 11:00. that's the comedians you the show comedians take you through the next day's papers.

josh, harry believe is going to be on. that's tonight. every night do not miss it? night at 11:00. do not miss it? i'm sometimes hosting, but not tonight. is it tonight? it's tonight. who is it tonight? it's someone someone better, someone else. someone better, probably. thank probably. it's leo kearse. thank you watching. speech you for watching. free speech nation. next week. nation. we'll see you next week. goodbye hello there. welcome to the latest update from the met office. i'm jonathan bawtry . we office. i'm jonathan bawtry. we do have a split picture as move into the new working week . into the new working week. there's high pressure stretching itself into southeastern areas to provide more of a settled start here . but in the northwest start here. but in the northwest got frontal systems that want to push their way in. this will be associated with more extensive clouds, but also some patchy outbreaks . rain and drizzle outbreaks. rain and drizzle across southwest scotland . isle across southwest scotland. isle of man and of a coastal districts of the irish sea, where we do hold to the clearer skies in the south—east that will allow the return of some freezing fog patches overnight. these quite dense these could be quite dense some places start first thing. places as we start first thing. so you just take care when you're travelling. pretty chilly to the as well. to start off the week as well. we a frost developing

we have a frost developing across the southeast but we'll be in the be staying milder in the northwest under the but the cloud to stay pretty cloud is going to stay pretty much and those much in place and those outbreaks of rain continuing once freezing cold patches do clear, we will see some sunny spells yorkshire , the spells for yorkshire, the midlands and down towards hampshire more pushing hampshire but more cloud pushing into kent and eastern areas of anglia a contrast in the temperatures again during monday fairly cold in the south—east but once mild in the north—west. highs around the ten degrees celsius again into the overnight period, a sharp frost will develop . we hold onto the develop. we hold onto the clearer skies, but with the cloud now pushing into the southeast . we'll just have a southeast. we'll just have a reduced risk of frost here in towns and cities, probably more around the low single digits. but in the northwest, it's going to remain pretty mild once again, even dropping again, maybe not even dropping as as nine celsius. the as low as nine celsius. the reason picking up a bit more in the north as well. we see further outbreaks of rain pushing hebrides the pushing into hebrides and the northern at times reduced number of sunny intervals. on tuesday that that cloud has pushed its way into the southeast. it will

be parts lincolnshire into the birmingham area eventually south—east and southwest england that see them a bit of a reversal of fortunes into the week ahead. eventually that that will push its way down the south see later .

welcome to glory. we've got three fantastic political views with a difference . it's the with a difference. it's the greater manchester mayor, andy burnham. in that moment, whitehall did not like us answering back . but they're answering back. but they're going to have to get used to it. the north is not going back to the way we were treated before . the way we were treated before. it's the conservative mp jacqui doyle pryce. so i'm sick of heanng doyle pryce. so i'm sick of hearing about focus groups. you know, margaret thatcher never

bothered with that