welcome to glory. we've got three fantastic political views with a difference . it's the with a difference. it's the greater manchester mayor, andy burnham. in that moment, whitehall did not like us answering back . but they're answering back. but they're going to have to get used to it. the north is not going back to the way we were treated before . the way we were treated before. it's the conservative mp jacqui doyle pryce. so i'm sick of heanng doyle pryce. so i'm sick of hearing about focus groups. you know, margaret thatcher never

bothered with that because she knew what she wanted to do is the former conservative leader, ian duncan—smith, one of them. if they couldn't prove who it was , attacking me by slamming was, attacking me by slamming a very heavy comb which has grit inside it and everything else, all that afternoon . good all that afternoon. good evening. i'm tatiana sanchez in the gb newsroom. investigations are continuing in california after at least ten people were killed in a shooting at a lunar new year festival. thousands of people had gathered at monterey park near los angeles when a gunman opened fire. another ten people were taken to hospital with at least one in a critical condition . the la. county condition. the la. county sheriff says a male suspect fled the scene and remains at large . the scene and remains at large. very preliminary description has been described as a male asian brain reviewing victim names and witnesses. we've gotten different descriptions of one

suspect. so when i say it's preliminary , please again, be preliminary, please again, be patient with us. we are here to tell you that we are utilising every resource to apprehend this suspect . and what we believe to suspect. and what we believe to be one of the county's most heinous cases . neighbours heinous cases. neighbours calling for an urgent investigation into claims. the chairman of the bbc , richard chairman of the bbc, richard sharp, helped boris johnson arrange alone weeks before the then prime minister recommended sharp for the job. the sunday times claims mr. sharp helped bods times claims mr. sharp helped boris johnson secure a guarantor for a loan of up to £800,000 when he was in financial difficulty in late 2020. sharp was announced as the government's choice for the bbc position in january 2021, both men say there were no conflict of interest . meanwhile, of interest. meanwhile, a cabinet minister has told gb news nadhim zahawi he has the prime minister's support

following allegations about his tax affairs. the conservative party chairman has admitted he reached a settlement with hmrc , reached a settlement with hmrc, believed to be almost reached a settlement with hmrc, believed to be almost £5 million, following an error over a multi—million pound shareholding in the polling company yougov. labour has called his position untenable . called his position untenable. but foreign secretary james cleverly says he believes mr. zahawi has paid his taxes. i don't know any more details than what he has already put in the pubuc what he has already put in the public domain. i don't think it would be right or proper for me to just speculate or guess about any further details about his tax affairs. but he has been a success entrepreneur building a company which has paid tax, employing people who have paid taxes. and he hasn't sold paid taxes. and he hasn't sold paid tax and considerable amount because he's been successful at least 380 migrants have arrived in the uk on ten small boats overnight, making it the busiest day of channel crossings so far this year. gb news understands a

few other boats have also set off this morning but haven't yet made it to the uk. the boats were monitored by french naval vessels which can only intervene if the migrants get into trouble. today's arrivals bring the total number of those crossing the channel this year to 530 . tv, online and dab to 530. tv, online and dab radio. this is gb news. i'll be back with more news at the top of the next hour . of the next hour. andy burnham, mayor of greater manchester. the perception is that this andy burnham is different to the cabinet minister. andy burnham under the last labour government. is that a fair perception .7 i think so. a fair perception? i think so. very much in tune with the theme of this interview. it's more very much in tune with the theme of this interview . it's more the of this interview. it's more the real andy burnham because in

this role , i, i, i don't have this role, i, i, i don't have the same constraints, you know, i'm kind of speaking for the place, not always the party. i'm doing what's right for greater manchester. this is the place i'm from. a place i love a home here . so, yeah, i think that here. so, yeah, i think that just leads to you coming over in a different way and i look back on my time in westminster, gloria and i don't think people did see the real me because like you, i guess we were loyal to the different leaders that we that we serve . and people use that we serve. and people use that we serve. and people use that as a sort of a criticism of me in the. oh, well, there was a bad joke doing the rounds recently a blairite, a brown i ed miliband and corbyn. i walked into a bar and the policies allow andy burnham. the fact that people tell that joke says something about them rather than me, i think because it says that they were more factional in terms politics. terms of their politics. i played loyal game, if you played to the loyal game, if you like, and the end i guess like, and in the end i guess that have the effect of

that does have the effect of people not fully knowing what your real views are, but hopefully they them hopefully they can see them through i've done in through the work i've done in manchester seem very manchester and you seem very happyin manchester and you seem very happy in this you got happy in this role. you got a big week next week, week big week next week, this week coming convention of the north. tell us what that's about. yeah well the north's getting organised isn't it? it's getting stronger . it's not going to put stronger. it's not going to put up stronger. it's not going to put up with things the way they've always been . and maybe people always been. and maybe people saw that in the pandemic when the to railroad the government tried to railroad us into tier three and we took a stand. things have changed and in that moment whitehall did not like us answering back. but they're going to have get they're going to have to get used the north is not used to it. the north is not going back to the way we were treated now, this isn't treated before. now, this isn't about getting threatening or anything it's about anything like that. it's about being what we've being positive about what we've got offer as the north of got to offer as the north of england, there is so much more we could we could be with the right support, but people in whitehall should make no mistake . they can't continue to treat us in the way they always have done when it comes to transport,

for instance, as second class citizens, that should just expect to second class service. well, no, i'm sorry. that's over . you've got a good ally in michael gove, the levelling up secretary. well, i was his shadow in parliament, so i was shadow in parliament, so i was shadow education secretary when he was education secretary and we didn't agree we definitely didn't agree at that but always got on that time, but we always got on and i respected his sort of energy , if you like, as energy, if you like, as a minister. he gets things done, you know, he makes change happen. and that's what you want. surely isn't it, in a in a government minister , too many of government minister, too many of them mind the paper clips and just the that because they like being there like the being there and they like the idea whereas michael idea of it. whereas michael actually try and get actually uses it to try and get things and as gone things done. and as he's gone on, think both of us have on, i, i think both of us have kind of come a bit more together and i think because we've got quite significant experience of, of political of british political life, i think we see what's wrong think we can see what's wrong with and it's funny that with it. and it's funny that we're actually converging together which together on the solution, which is more devolution power out is more devolution of power out of westminster in whitehall. and so it's a pleasure to work with him at times actually. and i

don't mind that because don't mind saying that because he things in a, in a he goes about things in a, in a good he listens . not every good way. he listens. not every minister on any side does that, but he does . and i'm hoping but he does. and i'm hoping within a, let's say a month or so to have signed a new devolution deal for greater manchester with michael and the rest of the government, because that will be a big sign that devolution is really coming into its own. what would you like in that deal? well, there are three things i think are critical. if it's to have substance . so, it's to have substance. so, number one, on transport, i don't know if you've been following what we're doing here, but we're the first area outside of london to put bosses back on the control role. and the public control role. and that happen this year. and that will happen this year. and the reason why that's so important because can important is because you can then london style then create a london style system it'll be called the system here. it'll be called the b know, the b network. you know, the manchester b, and it can't come a moment too soon because you'll be able tap in, tap out, take be able to tap in, tap out, take as many and trump as you as many buses and trump as you like, only pay up to like, and then only pay up to a certain level. will be certain level. and that will be a changer here. secondly, a game changer here. secondly, very we're to very quickly, we're going to we're through a great

we're bringing through a great manchester landlord charter manchester good landlord charter . getting serious about . we're getting serious about the need to regulate housing standards. michael is very much in that space after the tragic death of awaab ishak in rochdale last year. you know, housing standards, certainly in the private rented sector, but in the social rented sector, all that just not not good enough. and we want to empower the pubuc and we want to empower the public to their landlords public to hold their landlords to account . so we're public to hold their landlords to account. so we're bringing through of good through a great amount of good landlord. charles powers landlord. charles we want powers to that and the media to underpin that and the media hopefully this will will chime with viewers of gb news. the last area is technical education. we want to create the country's first integrated technical education system where it works in the same way as the academic route , as the academic route, as the university route, i.e. kids who are coming through school have got the same clarity about what is there for them at the end of school from a technical education system that's working very much as one with our great master employers and giving them high quality pathways into good

into good jobs , because there into good jobs, because there are lots of vacancies out there in the labour market. so three big things that, gloria, big ticket things that, gloria, that we're we're hoping will be in the devolution deal. right. i'm talk more about you i'm going to talk more about you now. your mum was a receptionist, a doctor surgery. your was a telephone your dad was a telephone engineer. you to cambridge engineer. you go to cambridge university. so one part of your life i strong influence is a working class background . then working class background. then you go to this posh university which is the strongest on your identity . well, it's the first. identity. well, it's the first. of course, you can't escape. you are background. so my mum was a phone operator at first actually though she used to do the old hats thing in the old days and she met my dad at a telephone exchange. i was born in liverpool. they were from liverpool. they were from liverpool and this is old, isn't it, when you're the mayor of greater manchester. but what i was one. my dad got a job over here. so i grew up mainly in the in the manchester area and i'm absolutely everything about me is from the north—west of england. both

england. you know, i love both cities , and they have cities actually, and they have more in common probably than people you know, people realise. but you know, i, i'm this place, know , i'm from this place, you know, my here, i'm home at my heart is here, i'm home at the moment. that's why i think people see the real me, because i'm, you know, where i am myself, if like, with family myself, if you like, with family and friends. but the experience of going to cambridge, i would never want to sort of deny it wasn't really important to me because i was at university in the late 1980s and people will remember what the north west was like in that era. i was growing up in the area where i came to represent and the miners strike was a massive, massive thing at that time . i leave the area in that time. i leave the area in 1988 to go to university and i'm like, i want to is in the same world that i've come from and i couldn't relate one to another. and for the first year or two, it was like i just feared the tap on the shoulder. i just didn't think they would accept me. i would, you know, i would be thrown out, you know, eventually sort of started to

feel my way but the big feel my way there. but the big thing that happened while i was at university was hillsborough. so i was in easter break in so i was in my easter break in my first year, a big everton sports. as people might know, i was back home, i was in the pub with friends who were liverpool supporters who were going to hillsborough. i was going to fill a park , liverpool were fill a park, liverpool were going back to the same grandmother. they'd had problems the year before because everyone knew was unsafe. knew that ground was unsafe. everyone been stood on everyone who'd been stood on the weapons as i had weapons lane terrace as i had done , and next night i was done, and the next night i was back in the same pub after being at my our game and we saw people return hillsborough utterly return from hillsborough utterly traumatised , you know. and then traumatised, you know. and then within days obviously certain newspapers were blaming the supporters rather than what we knew to be the truth. so all of that happened . then i go back to that happened. then i go back to cambridge, my summer to and literally it was like it hadn't happened or the extent they happened or to the extent they commented on it, they would parrot the that it those parrot the line that it those supporters must been. supporters must have been. and it like that experience gory it was like that experience gory i has been defining for me

i guess has been defining for me throughout life and is also throughout my life and is also true in westminster . true of my time in westminster. i kind of always felt like kind of an outsider in cambridge, an outsider in westminster to a significant degree , trying to significant degree, trying to understand how that world could help the world. i really was from and cared about and always finding it hard to relate, relate one one to the other. but that's in some ways very much my story. live in story. i've tried to live in both the worlds within this both of the worlds within this country , and it's a very hard country, and it's a very hard thing to do. and actually the only way to make it better for the future is to make this world here have the same standards and opportunities as people take for granted. south, you were granted. in the south, you were an at a local catholic an altar boy at a local catholic church in the age of about 70. very good. what about seven in ten does face play a big part in your life ? just from a sort of your life? just from a sort of background, i guess, you know, in terms of values, that kind of the way it routes you from a catholic upbringing in point of view, you know, you're kind of the is still there if is the guilt is still there if is kind of in there, isn't it? you

know, and yeah , but there's know, and yeah, but there's something about that upbringing thatis something about that upbringing that is kind of quite , you know, that is kind of quite, you know, sort of within, isn't it? and it never goes even if you're kind of views in terms of belief. so i sort of go over over time. now that had a big impact. i sort of go over over time. now that had a big impact . a big that had a big impact. a big impact on me. i was an altar boy. i can't say i was the best one. i think the priest that to the altar wine a few times just to chat you were an adviser to labour cabinet ministers before you became an mp , which is, you you became an mp, which is, you know, in some ways very conventional route into politics. i read that some of your special adviser colleagues , labour colleagues, could be snotty to you and your wife. give us an example . i'll show my give us an example. i'll show my wife so much i guess in terms of life . well, it was when we were life. well, it was when we were kind of first of kind of in that new labour era. yeah, i can

yeah, i can remember not again filling the cambridge flat, not feeling like you're quite fitted in. and i think there were a couple of occasions where, where that was, how it was . i remember that was, how it was. i remember working at millbank in 1990, that was labour hq. working at millbank in 1990, that was labour hq . yeah, it was that was labour hq. yeah, it was labour hq, the 97 general election. and honestly , i still election. and honestly, i still look back at that as something that was my kind of first big shock when it came to the sort of labor party nationally. it was a it was a very london based operation , not there weren't by operation, not there weren't by people, but i just that was a big experience really, really understanding how in life connect in and upbringing and accent and all of those things those matter went certainly in that london world, be it in politics, media or whatever , as politics, media or whatever, as you know as well. and you've got the same haven't you in your. yeah, yeah. i was wanted to work for party nine, seven but for labour party nine, seven but i couldn't get a job. but it's not about me. i looking it not about me. i was looking it was pretty elitist though. i think both agree. i was

think we both agree. i was lucky.i think we both agree. i was lucky. i had my first job in london, which working on london, which was working on trade which was was trade magazine, which was it was called management. called container management. you know, , the glamour. know, the height, the glamour. and was getting and more and i was getting more and more political. the things that political. so the things that were on and i remember were going on and i remember being at work one day and i just really in politics. really want to work in politics. and person who was next to and the person who was next to me next day said, well, me the next day said, well, well, don't you my well, why don't you my stepmother's why don't stepmother's an mp, why don't you work that you apply to work for her? that was somebody called elinor mills. he stepdaughter of jo mills. he was stepdaughter of jo andifs mills. he was stepdaughter of jo and it's quite a long story short, did, applied and that short, i did, i applied and that was life changing . so yeah, was life changing. so yeah, i mean, in the end , you know, the mean, in the end, you know, the danger of people from the north, i guess, is we do ourselves too much, don't we? we feel cheap shoulder too much. the truth is, there's many great things about this country. it's still open doors for you that you never thought you would through. thought you would go through. yeah labour has yeah and now labour has a problem with working class voters. you only need to look at the seats that were lost in the last general election. i don't think it's controversial to say that. how would you articulate

labour's problem with working class voters ? i think it's class voters? i think it's a power focusing on the issues that they care about and that they experience every day . i'm they experience every day. i'm prioritising them and talking about them the way that they would talk about about them. i mean, a good example is here, you know, the focus we've put on bus services. when i was in parliament 16 years, i can barely remember. can you? you know someone from our side standing at the dispatch said, i'm to make big issue i'm going to make a big issue about reforming never about reforming buses. never heard it, never once. and yet, you you come back here as you know, you come back here as mayor and everyone's like, so what? bosses are on the what? the bosses are on the other absolute you other an absolute mess, you know, bus trouble and know, cos the bus trouble and it's, you know, it's of it's, you know, it's one of those things where you know, i've kind of hope people have felt devolution felt the power of devolution because at the last mayoral election i did talk very directly that issue and i'm directly to that issue and i'm like of speech after like kind of speech after wedding. i said, you know, why is it that a bus ticket in

harpurhey greater manchester can cost twice as much as one in haringey? look up so there's a sort of there's little unfairness from a sort of social class point of view because people lower down the income scale tend to use buses , but scale tend to use buses, but they're more expensive they're also much more expensive here in the north than they are in deal with the issues in london. deal with the issues that affect people that actually affect people directly and come up with policies that will benefit the other. doing enough of that cutting through to people . so cutting through to people. so the labour leadership i don't think any of the parties at the moment, we're being honest, moment, if we're being honest, are . cutting through to are really. cutting through to the extent that is needed, given the extent that is needed, given the feelings people have got about life at the moment. and i don't think this is a moment for sort of , you know, business as sort of, you know, business as usualin sort of, you know, business as usual in terms of the way politics is conducted and the kind of kind of framing of the way it's always been conducted that the labour party kind of always has to go along with the agenda as set by by the media. i

think this is a moment where people are in a crisis situation in terms of their finances and they look around and they see trains that don't work, but the companies that run them are getting bailed out to the tune of hundreds of millions like they look at a situation where energy was all sold off and now they have to pay thousands for that for their bills. whereas in other countries that that's not the case. people look at housing and where everything was broken up and sold off. i honestly think the public are saying, well, hang on a minute. that stuff not worked. it's not stuff has not worked. it's not work vast majority of work for the vast majority of people. and it's a bad place to end up in the middle of a cost of crisis because people of living crisis because people can't basics. they can't afford the basics. they can't afford the basics. they can't essentials. can't afford the essentials. final question . you stood for final question. you stood for the labour leadership in 2010 and again in 2015. obviously you didn't become labour leader. could it be third time look ? could it be third time look? well, i'm not planning to go back.i well, i'm not planning to go back. i mean, i'm happy where i where i am . and let me maybe

where i am. and let me maybe this is an exclusive for you. i'm i will be running for a third term as mayor of greater manchester. i love what i'm doing here. i think what we're building here is a big part of the answer to make british politics work better and that is more power in the hands of a place like this. know this place amazing grace amongst the other people here, the kind of passion that people have got, the identity you give a place that is more power. it's unbelievable what it can what it can do with it. and hopefully we're already showing know, the showing that, you know, the energy is in what we're energy i think, is in what we're doing , not necessarily in what doing, not necessarily in what westminster is doing at the moment. you know, where the ones who are bringing forward the biggest act of levelling up in this parliament it's called this parliament and it's called the network that london this parliament and it's called the publicnork that london this parliament and it's called the public transportt london this parliament and it's called the public transport system.| style public transport system. so not walking away from so i'm not walking away from that. i i'm going to be standing for a third term as mayor of greater manchester. what the future holds beyond that, i honestly, i honestly don't know

. i have said i wouldn't rule out going back at some point . out going back at some point. but to make it clear, you know, l, but to make it clear, you know, i, i would like to see keir starmer as the next prime minister of this country. i want to the labour party to bring through some of the changes that i've touched on in this. in this interview i hope that will be a labour government really does get that power out of westminster and that's a bold policy that they've been talking up more and more recently , which up more and more recently, which is great. but later down the line, after all of that has happened, i'm not going to say that i'm going to i'm going to rule it out because i guess i mean, having been in westminster all of those years now, having done this for almost six years, i feel i know a lot of the changes that this country needs. fascinating frank , always great fascinating frank, always great to talk to you and listen to you. andy burnham, thank you . you. andy burnham, thank you. coming up, is the conservative mp for thurrock , jackie doyle.

mp for thurrock, jackie doyle. plus, i would say actually that my classroom is home about more than my sex. in truth, coming up.and than my sex. in truth, coming up. and duncan smith, i think it's important that you do occasionally if you want rebel . occasionally if you want rebel. i think there's nothing less interesting than somebody who never rebels in the whole of their life and then goes through rising without trace to the extent that they end up being in power. i never think that's particularly exciting .

jackie price i think we got elected to the same time, 2010, indeed 2010. and your mum worked at woolworths, your dad was a builder's labourer. not most stories like that in parliament just needs to be more of like, i mean parliament should really reflect the composition of british society and i'm afraid for too long it's been full of

white, male, middle class lawyers and we need a more diverse set of voices. and i think actually one of the reasons that our politics is pound out of the last few years with brexit, with the change in the red, wall street blue or whatever you want to call it, is very much because of that. and i think increasingly thankfully actually the conservative party is having a much more broader based set of voices and if anything, the labour party is becoming more and more metropolitan and middle class. do you think your working class heritage, your south yorkshire accent? i think it's held you back in politics. i think it holds you back generally in society. in truth , because our society. in truth, because our society. in truth, because our society works for the point. the upper middle classes , i would upper middle classes, i would say actually that my class is home about more than my sex. in truth. but again, i think the more that we are since we've sort of striking through those glass ceilings , the more we can glass ceilings, the more we can take people up with us. and

ultimately , it should be for ultimately, it should be for everyone to aim high and become the best that they can be. that's real social mobility, actually. do you think there's a class ceiling in politics like most, most professions , like most, most professions, like attracts like, doesn't it? and of course, you know, for a game that's being played by historically actually lawyers more than anyone else, there's still a preponderance of them. but you know, increasingly we can break through and there are some some very strong voices and that to the people who leave most impact all the ones who are a bit different. so you grew up in a council house in sheffield. you're working class . parents you're working class. parents want to buy that council house and that triggers your interest in politics. i read tell us a bit about that. it is i was about 14, so as you recall, that's when we start to get a bit agitated about the things i'm thinking around something a bit angry. yeah, my parents wanted that council house wanted to buy that council house and that time, sheffield and at that time, sheffield always has been a very labour

area and it was led by david blunkett , who at that time was, blunkett, who at that time was, was very seen as one of the left wing firebrands is less so these days actually much more, which will a centrist but yeah i mean the labour party are ideologically opposed to selling off council housing. so they did everything they could to make that more difficult and just pncked that more difficult and just pricked an interest in me. i know i thought , you know, i've know i thought, you know, i've been told here that the labour party's for the party, the working classes, yet here my parents working hard, trying to do the right thing and wanting to better themselves and the labour getting the way. labour party getting in the way. and conservative and it's the conservative party's the party's offering them the opportunity . and so with that opportunity. and so with that sort of interest, that's when i started properly explore politics more and there was no turning back for me . i've been a turning back for me. i've been a conservative campaigner ever since and you've also been a close friend of liz truss for a long time , 25 years as well. long time, 25 years as well. that more than half alive. so yes, that . yeah, i met liz after

yes, that. yeah, i met liz after she graduated from university and we were both involved in, in the greenwich politics at the time for the of the london area south london that is there anything we don't know about liz truss there's actually a lot you don't know about liz truss because actually she's a very private person and what you've all seen is the politically dnven all seen is the politically driven liz truss, but privately she's a very warm and thoughtful friend with a very tight family . and you know, i mean she's i would say i've been privileged to call her a friend for many, many years. i've just read one of the biographies of liz truss was the biography. liz truss i'm out of the blue. she likes to soften your blank look , there soften your blank look, there will be no vote . oh, she human will be no vote. oh, she human being . and again, i think that's being. and again, i think that's one of the difficulties is that you know all our politics know the way we thought our policies are very aggressive. it doesn't actually give you much of an opportunity to be a personality in truth. and in liz's case, you know, she's she's been out of

the game for more than ten years. she served in the cabinet all that time. and the truth is, i don't think people have seen very of her. so. yeah, well very much of her. so. yeah, well , so scrubs, things are , so scrubs, these things are oh, sort of thing about well oh, the sort of thing about well doesn't everyone look 1000 doesn't everyone look last 1000 mike . yeah indeed i, mike this. yeah indeed i, i don't know if i think while i was , while we were in parliament was, while we were in parliament together, i think politics is that people really don't like politics and politicians . do you politics and politicians. do you have any . it's a politics and politicians. do you have any. it's a big politics and politicians. do you have any . it's a big question have any. it's a big question this any solution or do you get why politics works and politicians are not trust liked you seem like a feet on the ground sort of woman. that's why i'm asking you. i if we look at what's happened in the last two weeks where sky have produced the westminster councils , which the westminster councils, which has taken what's publicly available information but packaged in a way as to imply packaged it in a way as to imply that members of power are all on the take and, you know, watch

that. and i just thought this is really irresponsible because actually, you know , you and i actually, you know, you and i have seen it most of our colleagues are good, honourable people who just want to do better for society. and yet most of the reporting that we ever see, first in broadsheet seats and on tv , is trying to imply and on tv, is trying to imply that we're all crooks , we're all that we're all crooks, we're all crooked, we're all on the make , crooked, we're all on the make, and it just isn't true . but i and it just isn't true. but i think that that well as being poisoned since the expense scandal when actually what was a cynical attempt in the you know long before you and i were in public. yeah was instead of giving employees a decent pay rise. oh no just get it all expenses. it was a cynical act to hide it from public view, but it's poisoned politician politics for good. and i actually just wish that we all collectively realised society that actually our politicians in this country are pretty good . we this country are pretty good. we are actually quite lucky . and if are actually quite lucky. and if we don't recognise that we are actually diminishing the importance of politics because the truth is what we have to do

in parliament in terms of holding the government to account, in terms of making good quality legislation . it is quality legislation. it is important work and if good people are put off because they're always going to be accused of all kinds of things from doing that job, then will attract people who don't have those motives. and our law will be worse for it. i mean, i just think , you know, we as think, you know, we as politicians also have to be a lot more comfort about saying what we believe rather than saying what we think will play. so i'm sick of hearing about focus groups, you know , what was focus groups, you know, what was that inevitable with focus groups? because she knew what she wants to do. well, we shouldn't be landing things like that. you know, if we always operate the interest operate in the national interest to broadly, do , we'll to think broadly, we do, we'll get right. we get these things right. and we should honest with the public should be honest with the public about we shouldn't be just about them. we shouldn't be just diversify, messages diversify, amplify messages just because nigel farage just said something you know , trade something or, you know, trade union something union leaders said something else to right. and else, stick to what's right. and the public will trust us. more from jacqui doyle price after the break. i think the whole

debate about south i.d. isn't censoring women enough. there is a conflict of rights here , and a conflict of rights here, and we need to have tools for managing that .

i want to talk to you about a speech you made in parliament in december. it was about violence against women and girls. it was against women and girls. it was a very interesting speech . and a very interesting speech. and so i wanted to there's a few things i pulled out with two often approach issues from the perspective of the pointy elbowed middle classes and the most vulnerable in our society are left behind. just to expand on that a little bit, i think that's true of all our public services . actually. if you take services. actually. if you take something like the nhs and the nhs when it was conceived, it was about making sure that was all about making sure that people got access to the health care it wasn't

care they need. it wasn't dependent income , it was all dependent on income, it was all about making sure that we had vaccines to, you vaccines and we had to, you know, disease because, know, tackling disease because, you , early part of the you know, the early part of the century, people did die from poor living conditions. and that's why how the nhs was conceived . and over time, you conceived. and over time, you know, our health system has changed over time and any case. but some of the demands we placed on it and it is very much about making sure that we're satisfying the demands that people love before and the fact is that some people are better at lobbying than others and inevitably then that starts distort, you know, housing, how things are allocated. so you see in health, you know , the idea in health, you know, the idea that, you know, when we created the which was all about, you know , lifting people out of know, lifting people out of poverty and making sure that disease didn't kill, that we're actually allocating actually now allocating resources ivf, resources for things like, ivf, you a first for all you know, for a first for all kinds of operations that you would never have even thought about life or death if about as being life or death if you like. similarly, with

education, you know, you've got we've all seen how, you know, your postcode affects the quality of education that get and ultimately a system will react to those that shout loudest . and that is the point loudest. and that is the point about middle classes. and in terms of violence against women and girls , you know, if you look and girls, you know, if you look at our prisons and most of our women in prison have been victims of sexual violence and know we look back at things like rotherham and so on. and for me it feels like there is what you might euphemistically call an underclass, which you know more closely is referred to as chaps, which again it's symptomatic of the snobbery that exists . and i the snobbery that exists. and i think that our society, our political systems just don't treat those people fairly as they ought to. our intervention is as politicians, as, you know, provide the public services should be about levelling those people up , not satisfying the people up, not satisfying the

middle class to shout loudest. interesting i just want to just for the point of clarity, because i don't want you to get stick if it's been misinterpreted. you said things like ivf that that's reasonable, that the nhs provides is entirely expensive and i feel but if you is an example but i mean what i could say something like tattoo removal like that answer or even you know even you know straightening your teeth, you know, these, these aren't life or death issues . they are life or death issues. they are good things for the national health service to be doing. absolutely but in terms of where we put our priorities , they we put our priorities, they aren't necessarily, you know, if we're looking at waiting lists for things like, you know , for things like, you know, cancer operations. and so let's get these things correct . okay. get these things correct. okay. another line from your speech. we are seeing sex offenders self—identifying as women and being able to enter women's prisons . we had a rate only very

prisons. we had a rate only very recently that has to be tackled. how well, there are risk assessments in terms of who's to the women's prison . the the women's prison. the difficulty for me is that when they're making that risk assessment , what it is they assessment, what it is they receive pertaining to that individual is chosen so far. and so as a woman, which are crucial, that's the prism through which it's addressed, not the potential risks the women in who in the prison to whom the joining and there was a recent sex sold where the person had been risk assessment still went on to say cause issues within that facility. i mean for me we've we've just got to get all this right. we need to centre women at the parts of the debate really because absolutely we should be kind to people . we should be kind to people. absolutely. we should allow people to live as they wish . but people to live as they wish. but where that poses a risk to women and that needs to be properly managed . and i think the whole

managed. and i think the whole debate self i.d. isn't centring women enough. there is a conflict of rights here and we need to have tools for managing that. and at the moment, it's too much about rhetoric and talk of rise . and again, you know, of rise. and again, you know, women come second place in all of these things. it's censoring the men who are choosing to identify as women and not women themselves. you feminist. i never use the clip this define myself as a feminist. i you know i thought that you know the battles of feminism were over , battles of feminism were over, you know, growing up in the 19805, you know, growing up in the 1980s, you know , women's lib, it 1980s, you know, women's lib, it happened. i was i was able to benefit from that. but i increase and we find that actually, you know, we still live in a system and the interests of men will always trump those of women. if we let them. so i suppose the short answer is yes , i am. i didn't answer is yes, i am. i didn't say experts have to be. final point from the speech , which point from the speech, which which as i say, i found very interesting i will not be happy until someone engaged in sex work who was murdered receives

as much attention as a nice, pretty middle class girl . well pretty middle class girl. well again, we're back to classes of victim here and, you know, it was very striking that when , you was very striking that when, you know, when cousins was arrested , was was convicted for the murder and abduction , that murder and abduction, that absolutely changed the game because it made people wake up to that. anyone could be a victim . but the truth is, victim. but the truth is, gloria, you and i know prostitutes disappear every week and no one pays a blind bit of nofice. and no one pays a blind bit of notice . and the truth is, is notice. and the truth is, is that, you know, violence against women and girls is never acceptable. and, you know , women acceptable. and, you know, women don't choose to go into sex work. it's something that happens to vulnerable women. it happens to vulnerable women. it happens to vulnerable women. it happens to women who often are persuaded to be coerced into doing by men who live off them . doing by men who live off them. and i think, again , we need to and i think, again, we need to properly start tackling these issues because at the moment it's too easy to look the other way when these things because it

doesn't affect you if you've got your nice house with you , enough your nice house with you, enough money coming in and everything's off with you, it's easy to ignore what's happening around the corner and you just make sure that you don't go down there when you know it's not a nice, nice place live. and nice, nice place to live. and i'm there are still too i'm afraid there are still too many vulnerable women who are being exploited by men. and that's something we need to tackle . thoroughly enjoyed that tackle. thoroughly enjoyed that . found it really interesting, really set of opinions . really set of opinions. politicians are often pigeon pigeonholed, but . politicians are often pigeon pigeonholed, but. but i feel like we've learned a lot more about what you think and feel better for it. why is it for it 7 better for it. why is it for it ? so thank you, jacqui. jill price, thank you. coming up, it's the life and times with iain duncan smith. there's no point in leaving the european union if you then parallel the european union because you might as well have been in it.

iain duncan smith , a serving in iain duncan smith, a serving in the forces or leading a political party which is the most stressful . i think leading most stressful. i think leading the political party was because somebody once said to churchill , the house of commons is a great place because here is your party. and over the other side of the of the opposition, he said, no, no, no. over there is the labor party. over here is the labor party. over here is the opposition. and that's exactly what it is really . it's exactly what it is really. it's like that you never you'll judge the whole time. opposition is the whole time. opposition is the kind of leadership the worst kind of leadership because wants to be led. because nobody wants to be led. they're all up and angry. they're all fed up and angry. they're all fed up and angry. they all want tell you what they all want to tell you what to do. and it's like herding, really. i guess apart from that, it probably like really ? but it was probably like really? but you about that that being you talk about that that being a sign of being in opposition . but sign of being in opposition. but actually there's very little

discipline in your party, in government, certainly of late , government, certainly of late, three different prime ministers and as many months quite a sort of rebellious group employees. how did we get to this point ? how did we get to this point? yes, it's interesting. i come back to the to the covid lockdown . i think they've lockdown. i think they've affected. absolutely everything in british life , fact in british life, fact everywhere, probably if you look around what's going on in other countries. but here within our system, what's happened is we had a 2019 intake, many of whom probably weren't expecting to be elected . majority , only elected. big majority, only immediately. they come into parliament, we lock down. so they're out of parliament. so pretty much for two, two and a bit years they didn't really learn anything about what you do in parliament, how it works, the structure, the discipline structure, how the discipline works when it does so works as and when it does so i found when they came back they were on a fast learning curve , were on a fast learning curve, but at the same time we were in difficulty and now they're worrying about their seats, which quite difficult which often were quite difficult to . so i think the

to hold anyway. so i think the nature discipline had broken down quite significantly and opposition sometimes the discipline comes when there's a whiff of a chance that you're going to get in. and then that bnngs going to get in. and then that brings people together. but in government , if it looks like government, if it looks like you, you might possibly lose then that if it wasn't strong already, then starts to disintegrate . and i think, as disintegrate. and i think, as i say, covid, i think has affected everything. it's affected our politics. the politics. it's affected the nature we run nature of how we run our parties. of this is has gone parties. all of this is has gone through period of time. i've through a period of time. i've never seen before in my life. interesting that you talk about discipline. well, because some people listening to indigo smith talk about discipline will say, well, hang on a minute. i mean, he starts to define the he defied starts to define the party whip pretty much as soon as got elected. to as he got elected. continue to do when he served in david do so when he served in david cameron's resigned cameron's cabinet. you resigned . was going to ask . so actually i was going to ask you, but this is the wrong you, but maybe this is the wrong question. was ask you question. i was going to ask you if discipline is an overrated virtue politics. well, virtue in politics. well, discipline important inside discipline is important inside political parties. you have to if you're a government, you have

to get your business through. it's little more it's a little a little more difficult in opposition where you're actually pushing you're not actually pushing anything no, anything particularly. yeah, no, i but know, i disagreed with i but you know, i disagreed with wall on arrival. wall street treaty on arrival. so i ended up rebelling. it's how i planned my political life. i tell you, i pick my issues, but the reality is, in politics, i think important that you do occasionally if you want rebel. i think there's nothing less interesting than somebody who never rebels in the whole of their life and then goes through rising without trace to the extent they up being in extent that they end up being in power. think that's power. i never think that's particularly i mean, particularly exciting. i mean, all leaders were all the great leaders were rebelling so the rebelling at some stage. so the real point here, i think, is that you pick your rebellions and don't do much once . and you don't do too much once. and churchill's was never and churchill's dictum was never more than one rebellion at a time which quite time, which was quite interesting. but so that's really how i think it works. so i i don't resile from i don't i don't resile from that. say that if there that. i simply say that if there are big issues you feel are big issues and you feel strongly about them, if strongly about them, and if you think the government's the think the government's going the wrong have to wrong way, then you have to decide or not you're decide whether or not you're country before

country comes before your allegiance to government. and that's choice . so that's always the choice. so i don't pretend to lecture anybody about discipline by any means at all pretty, pretty all that i was pretty, pretty strong and supportive of the government that i was in this second set of work and pensions, my rebellion the of that my rebellion at the end of that was because i simply fundamentally with the fundamentally disagreed with the government extent of the government in the extent of the reductions on benefits, and i thought too far. thought they'd gone too far. you've seen a lot of labour leaders in your time, kinnock , leaders in your time, kinnock, smith, blair brown, ed miliband , jeremy corbyn, keir starmer , , jeremy corbyn, keir starmer, who we feared most . well, it's who we feared most. well, it's clearly blair was the most successful of the group that you've named and guess in that sense, when i was when i was in opposition , after he had got opposition, after he had got elected in 97, because i came in and introduced and he got elected and i said with a landslide. it was tough for the opposition. they didn't want to hear from us. and he managed to speak, you know, to cover both political parts of the spectrum

in a way that i found. i found very frustrating . but it was very frustrating. but it was a skill. a skill , by the way, skill. a skill, by the way, which i think his party has never quite understood or recognised properly or even thanked him for because it was a remarkable transformation , but remarkable transformation, but not his transformation, the fact that he kept it afloat, considering all the pressures that come from them, you know, on the other side with jeremy corbyn later shows you the distinct difference between elements the labour party as elements of the labour party as much than there much, well, more so than there are the conservative party in are on the conservative party in many but so, so i thought many ways, but so, so i thought he's probably the one that was the most successful , also the the most successful, also the one the conservatives must one that the conservatives must have certainly have feared most. and certainly i needed to come to i thought needed to come to terms what he was actually terms with what he was actually doing rather than moaning and complaining somehow complaining that somehow he'd stolen which was stolen our clothes. which was a mistake really. and your mistake really. and some of your former colleagues on a separate claire perry , both former claire perry, both former conservative they've been very warm about keir starmer as a sort of grandee in the conservative. it is your advice to just take those sort of

things on the chin when former colleagues approach his opposition leaders, do you engage with it? do you take it on the chin? well, i don't engage with it. i mean, the important word there is former you know, it's really important when the sitting in the house with you because that is a potential vote or sport or whatever my general view is respect who the opposition leader is , respect that they may leader is, respect that they may be doing quite a good job and make sure that what you're trying to do is to do the right thing in. but at the same time recognising at times you'll have to block off elements that the opposition has got something right and that's important. right on and that's important. blair that blair was very quick about that when was in his period when he was in his period opposing john major. you know, anything half decent they took and the rest of the time they spent pointing out just how hopeless john major was. so i mean, that's the classic way to run opposition. so you got lots of people coming out and they thought blair was okay . and so thought blair was okay. and so the key thing is to focus on why

you want to be in government. i would think the problem for the government sometimes they want to that we to be in government that we never actually understand never quite actually understand why in why they want to be in government clear government but have a clear agenda for change and sometimes changing what you've already governed toughest governed is the toughest thing altogether. to admit that mistakes made, things mistakes have been made, things haven't gone right. we're in that saga right now. but that sort of saga right now. but yeahi that sort of saga right now. but yeah i think former colleagues have , the luxury of always being have, the luxury of always being right and it's not rest of us who actually are practitioners ever have the problem of what's the biggest mistake that your party made in their, what, 12 years of government, in your view ? well, i think the biggest view? well, i think the biggest the latest is the biggest mistake we've made is having voted for brexit, having led to brexit, having got elected with a landslide to deliver brexit, we haven't delivered it in the way that we should have done. there's no point in leaving the european union if you then parallel the european union, because you might as well have beenin because you might as well have been in it. my answer is always

things like regulation is things like changes that are huge and could be very big. we should have got on with straight away, notwithstanding fact we've notwithstanding the fact we've hit crisis that any hit the worst crisis that any government has hit since the second war, which is second world war, which is covid, killed millions covid, has killed millions levelled governments down to incompetence, etc. but we still had that underlying agenda which to deliver the benefits of brexit, which is flexibility, the ability to do our own things, to change the regulations that financial services , etc, could run much services, etc, could run much more smoothly and by the way, there was a huge potential interest free sitting here in the which could dominate the the uk which could dominate the world and that's medtech spoken to scientists who the delivery of the vaccines you realise having voted that leaving actually helped them because we were able to make those regulation changes specifically for them and they've said this is it, this is the biggest industry that's going to grow could be dominant, bigger than the financial services. but we need said regulatory need they said regulatory change to define the market to be able to define the market absolutely two years ago i wrote

absolutely two years ago i wrote a report for the government on this for two years next to nothing has been done. everyone's distracted but this alone could be so important to the uk that every scientific group, every medical company would come to the uk, to do the development because they could use anonymized and non analysed data health service . data from the health service. it's resource, it's a huge resource, potentially the health potentially giving the health service more all of these service more money. all of these things net positive, it things are net positive, but it takes if we're going to takes change if we're going to be the eu, then we can't be outside the eu, then we can't be outside the eu, then we can't be the. we have to be the uk. let me ask you about the incident that took place at a conservative conference last year just just to quote your own words, back , i got a traffic words, back, i got a traffic cone slammed onto my hands , got cone slammed onto my hands, got three quarters of the way across the street. you were crossing. i felt this blow on the back of my head and neck . there was no head and neck. there was no punishment . head and neck. there was no punishment. for the man accused of doing that . how did you and of doing that. how did you and your wife react to that news ? your wife react to that news? well, we were concerned because it was a clear case within

criminal law. it was a clear case within criminal law . they were charged criminal law. they were charged quite a low level charge anyway . but the person that was in charge of the case said that he thought it clashed with article ten their rights to protest. now every single case that i've spoken to many in the of commons on both sides of the house by the way and colleagues on both sides the house have all said article ten does not allow violent action. it's never seen. it's the right to protest, but it's when it past a protest it's when it goes past a protest . were intrigued . i gather . so we were intrigued. i gather that the i'm understand that the cps is going to appeal this, as it were, or go back to the high court on it. so i don't know what the outcomes and i can't comment. therefore further than that. i do know that every that. but i do know that every as one mp or labour mp came to and said, well, we're all targets aren't we? and targets now, aren't we? and given this was weeks before given that this was weeks before the murder that took place over one of our colleagues that i just find it a remarkable

judgement. but then, you know, i'm it's not my job to change the judgement , but it is the job the judgement, but it is the job of the criminal prosecution service. it was a pretty service. but it was a pretty angry nonsense. angry and violent nonsense. these protest , as these were permanent protest, as they nothing else but protest they do nothing else but protest . which they . one of them, which they couldn't prove was couldn't prove. who was attacking by slamming a very attacking me by slamming a very heavy can, which is great inside it everything else i wasn't it and everything else i wasn't really worried myself really worried for myself generally, was my generally, wasn't it? was my wife friend who were wife and her friend who were next to me, who genuinely next to me, who were genuinely frightened. and we literally scurried into the system after that. and my wife said , it's that. and my wife said, it's just terrible, terrible. and she was quite upset. and i think that's not a right to protest. it goes beyond that and it doesn't matter with your labour or as my or conservative. as my colleagues have all agreed with me, is something that me, that this is something that needs be sorted out and let's needs to be sorted out and let's you mentioned your wife. let's talk about something happier. you elizabeth , betsy . in 1982 . you elizabeth, betsy. in 1982. so you live just celebrates as

it's not for 44 years of marriage. congratulations think she must have been there as your confidence and your adviser throughout that time . can you throughout that time. can you think of the best piece of advice she has given to you ? how advice she has given to you? how can i describe it? really just being there sometimes is important because you will recall there are times when you just need someone to listen and when i was a leader, it was really tough. but she was always ready. she always to speak to . i ready. she always to speak to. i had had this thing about speaking my wife every day, at least if i'm away speaking to every single when we were every single night when we were the other just talking, you know, about things that she's done, done done, things that i've done through of the day. done, things that i've done thr0|it's of the day. done, things that i've done thr0|it's that of the day. done, things that i've done thr0|it's that which of the day. done, things that i've done thr0|it's that which is the day. done, things that i've done thr0|it's that which is reallyay. and it's that which is really important and being a real steady , steady influence really steady, steady influence really sometimes just being able to say, well, i'm sure this will go away or that will not be a problem or , you know, every now problem or, you know, every now and you spark often and then when you spark often a bit of anger and just simply

says shouldn't quite not says you shouldn't be quite not be that or whatever or if i be like that or whatever or if i said something to somebody and people say, i think you could have better than your have done better than that, your best the person best critic is the person closest to you. the best thing she ever does is not pat me on the back by saying how wonderful i was, which doesn't happen by the very often. the best the way, very often. the best criticism when she says, criticism is when she says, i think , think didn't do think, i think you didn't do yourself well on that yourself very well on that one occasion, and you have to take it because she knows you better than yourself. great to than know yourself. great to discuss life and times. discuss your life and times. decadesin discuss your life and times. decades in politics, leadership positions, rebelling . there's a positions, rebelling. there's a lot to go through. thank you for sharing your life and times and duncan smith. my pleasure. thanks for watching . i'll be thanks for watching. i'll be back at 6:00 next sunday with more revealing political interviews .

on mark dolan tonight in my big opinion the labour party have a problem with women when speaking up for women's hard won sex based rights make you a bad person . i'm not pulling my person. i'm not pulling my punches that is my big opinion monologue in just 3 minutes time my more meets guest is lord peter lilly , a political icon peter lilly, a political icon and life peer who served as a cabinet minister. and life peer who served as a cabinet minister . the cabinet minister. the governments of margaret thatcher and john major in the big question, should all mps be forced to publish their tax . forced to publish their tax. would you like to see their financial details and in news agenda? should king charles have agenda? should king charles have a budget coronation ? and also, a budget coronation? and also, is the city of san francisco in america to pay every victim of slavery $5 million each and

should couples that split up