well, hello there. at 6:00, i'm michelle dewberry and this is dewbs& co of the show where we'll get into some of the things that have got you talking now. human rights . we've been now. human rights. we've been messing around and dabbling around a long around this issue for a long time . i'm around this issue for a long time. i'm asking a around this issue for a long time . i'm asking a direct time. i'm asking a direct question . rishi sunak basically question. rishi sunak basically wants to ditch the human rights act and replace with act and replace it with a british bill of rights. is that the correct thing to do or not.7 and how concerned should we be

about britain's access deference? i'll give you a warning. it's high. what do you reckon? are we putting enough attention into this? has it been investigated thoroughly ? i know investigated thoroughly? i know you're trusting of information that you're getting out about this issue. also you remember gordon brown when he called gillian duffy a bigot ? it's gillian duffy a bigot? it's caught me pondering. so it has to. you think there's a big fear now in this society of being called a bigot and therefore a blind eye has been turned to very important matters . for very important matters. for example, who are men pretending that their kids when anyone with a pair of eyes can clearly see that they're not. men raping, women sticking a dress on and then pretending to be a woman again. everyone can see that it's this fear of it's not true. but this fear of being called names, whether it's a terror or a figure, is it leading to a situation where pubuc leading to a situation where public safety is being at risk and businesses they are going bust? are way of knots? how long should the government in surveying if at all, and who decides which businesses get help and who doesn't? on your

thoughts on all of that. but first off, let's bring ourselves up to speed, shall we, with tonight's latest headlines . the tonight's latest headlines. the top story at 6:00 on gb news downing street has said within the last hour that the prime minister has never paid a penalty to the hmrc amid an ongoing investigation over the former chancellor nadhim zahawi . tax affairs rishi sunak has defended how number 10 is handung defended how number 10 is handling the situation , handling the situation, insisting due process is being followed, saying no issues are raised with me when he appointed zahawi to a ministerial role at a lively pmqs earlier on today, the labour leader accused mr. sunak of being too weak to sack the party chairman, sir keir starmer , insisting an mp who starmer, insisting an mp who sought to avoid paying tax was not fit to be chancellor opposition can't have it both ways. the shadow leader is also

his party chair. both urged me and the government to appoint an independent adviser and now he objects to that independent adviser doing that job. it's simple political opportunities and everyone can see through it . his failure to sack him when the whole country could see what's going on shows how hopelessly weak he is . he's hopelessly weak he is. he's a prime minister overseeing chaos . overwhelmed at every turn . he . overwhelmed at every turn. he can't say what. ambulances will get to a heart attack victims again. he can't say whether the prison system will keep streets safe again . he can't even tell safe again. he can't even tell with taxable heaters in his own cabinet . yet, is he starting to cabinet. yet, is he starting to wonder if this job is just too big for him? yeah well, in these away from home president joe biden has announced the united states will send 31 abrams tanks

to ukraine. speaking from washington about continued support, mr. biden's said the us will train ukrainian troops to use the vehicles as soon as possible. that coming hot on the heels of the news that germany has already confirmed it's going to supply 14 leopard 2 battle tanks to the war torn country as well as authorising the re—export from other countries. the kremlin has responded. it's described the situation as a blatant provocation action and says us tanks on ukrainian soil will burn like all the rest. meanwhile, the ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy has tweeted saying the move by the us is an import two step on the us is an import two step on the path to victory. the abrams tanks are the most capable tanks in the world and they're also extremely complex to operate and maintain . so we're also giving maintain. so we're also giving ukraine the parts and equipment necessary to effectively sustain these tanks on the battlefield. when we began will begin to train ukrainian troops on these issues of sustainment with

distinction maintenance soon as possible , delivering these tanks possible, delivering these tanks to the fields , going to take to the fields, going to take time, time that we'll see. we'll use to make sure the ukrainians are fully prepared to integrate the abrams tanks into their defences . well, here , hundreds defences. well, here, hundreds of illegal migrants are attempting to cross the english channel once again today. gb news can exclusively reveal around 450 migrants have already been intercept it. we understand on nine small boats after a break in bad weather, several other small boats attempted to reach the kent coast but didn't make it to uk waters. a surge in small boat arrivals had been predicted today as the strong winds had died down briefly before picking up again this afternoon. we'll keep you up to date on those arrivals throughout the day. now 61 year old man has been arrested on suspicion of assaulting the former health secretary, matt hancock , on the london hancock, on the london underground . british transport underground. british transport police say they received a report that a man had been

harassed at westminster tube station yesterday morning. it's believed the mp wasn't hurt in the incident and the suspect remains in custody. as enquiries are ongoing . the met police are ongoing. the met police commissioner has apologised to the public and says painful stories will emerge as two or three officers will face criminal court appearances. every week. that is the fourth attempt to root out hundreds of corrupt officers . smart roli has corrupt officers. smart roli has apologised to the victims of the former officer, david carrick, who pleaded guilty to 49 criminal charges, including 24 counts of rape . i think we counts of rape. i think we failed as investigators where we should have been more intrusive and join the dots over his repeated misogyny over decades . repeated misogyny over decades. and as leaders , our mindset and as leaders, our mindset should have been more determined to spot and root out such misogynist . so as to say, misogynist. so as to say, i apologise to his victims and i want to say sorry to all the

women across london who feel let down by this and whose trust in policing is shaken by this . policing is shaken by this. well, lastly, amazon workers in the uk are strike king today for the uk are strike king today for the first time in a dispute over pay- the first time in a dispute over pay. the tech giant says a tiny proportion of the workforce are involved in the strike action, claiming they're proud to offer competitive pay in a system which recognises great performance. but staff at the company's coventry warehouse have rejected a proposed pay rise of $0.50 an hour as derisory due to the severe conditions they say its employees face, including timed toilet breaks . a gmb union toilet breaks. a gmb union member says workers have just had enough a pressure cooker environment that they work in any way with a target that they're expected to reach. you know, they just wear a mouse to get rid of a reply. after all that, they just offered a $0.50 pay that, they just offered a $0.50 pay increase in the biggest cost of living crisis that we've had

in decades. and i think when workers have got nothing to lose , you see them coming out fairly to that is the latest tv news on tv online on dab+ radio . back tv online on dab+ radio. back now to michelle litvinenko . now to michelle litvinenko. thanks for that, polly. what? i'm michelle dewberry . thanks for that, polly. what? i'm michelle dewberry. i'm keeping you company at home till 7:00 this evening alongside me . 7:00 this evening alongside me. i've got a panel that previously almost came to blows, but tonight i've been informed that they are now best friends. the last. that was a slight exaggeration, but they're getting on much better these days. that's my point. kevin craig, political craig, the political communications he's communications expert, and he's also ceo of lma. and also the ceo of lma. and alongside him , ben habib, former alongside him, ben habib, former brexit party mep and ceo of affairs property group, my boxing loves was at the ready last time i've left him at home this time and if you just if you

just sit in there kevin you can see self or you know i'm losing my temper. i have a look at this and just remember what a lovely man ben habib is. look at him. oh what's that? where did that come from ? well, where did that come from? well, i can tell you once i saw that, i can tell you once i saw that, i couldn't unsee it. so i believe that was when i was last introducing ben to my panel. unbeknown to me , because i'm not unbeknown to me, because i'm not staring at you when he was giving a cheeky look away, it's like, yeah, totally busted it. indeed.so like, yeah, totally busted it. indeed. so you feel a temperature rise? okay, that's helpful. yeah. just from that lovely little friendly guy. yeah. is that my guy? so he is. and you'll never see that wink from ben. i can assure you of that. from ben. i can assure you of that . anyway, i want your that. anyway, i want your thoughts at home tonight . what's thoughts at home tonight. what's on your mind? get in touch. gb views is that gbnews.uk is the email or you can tweet me at gb

news. tonight i want to get into the human rights situation in this country , the bill of human this country, the bill of human rights and the british right. should i say where do stand should i say where do you stand on access deaths? what's on that access deaths? what's going on? also bigotry. are you terrified these days of saying what i would say is common sense for fear of being called a bigot or whatever, for whatever the other labels are ? and also what other labels are? and also what else i want to talk to you about. lots of stuff you like to stay for the course of the show if you want to find out what else before i get into the top story, though, about the human rights stuff, just a quick word on whole tax issue and on this whole tax issue and adam's the way many people are saying he should resign. saying that he should resign. we're around rishi we're now poking around in rishi sunak's just heard sunak's affairs. you just heard there he's saying he's there that he's saying he's never penalty hmrc. do never paid a penalty to hmrc. do you somehow go? you think somehow we should go? i zahawi go. he was i think zahawi should go. he was negotiating hmrc while he negotiating with hmrc while he was chancellor of the exchequer and he was found not to have paid the appropriate amount of tax. and i think he was fined the maximum penalty allowable by hmrc, which is 30% of your bill

and that says to me he did something wrong. it wasn't an oversight , he something wrong. it wasn't an oversight, he did something wrong. he ended up in a debate with hmrc and eventually then conceded the point . so it needs conceded the point. so it needs to go for you. kevin we should stop the programme there because i'm that. i'm totally aligned with that. that's nice . and i told you that's nice. and i told you a best friend . what do you reckon best friend. what do you reckon to all at home by the way? and it is many accusations that this whole thing is bringing tory whole thing is bringing the tory party disrepute. fact party into disrepute. the fact that there it's that he's still there and it's subject investigation as subject to an investigation as opposed just going do you opposed to him just going do you think not? but think that's true or not? but let's into our lead story, let's get into our lead story, shall tonight, with shall we? tonight, sticking with the because many people the tories, because many people now and pays payers different groups telling sunak groups are telling rishi sunak that abandon that basically he should abandon his to rewrite uk's human his plans to rewrite uk's human rights law. the tory party has pledged and this has been such an ongoing thing, it's been going around the houses for years, but basically it's all about abolishing the human rights acts as it stands and replacing it instead with a british bill of rights. ben habib before we get into this,

so many people right in saying, yeah, we should leave the european court of human rights and this and that and the other . just explain you will, . just explain if you will, a little brief of a different very briefly, the european convention of human rights was actually something set up after world war ii with the united kingdom as a prime mover in setting it up. it has nothing to do with the eu. i think it's got 46 members, many more than the eu member states. and really behind it and the idea really behind it was to make sure that we don't have of human rights have the kind of human rights abuses world war ii meted abuses that world war ii meted out and that we can keep a sort of on germany and the of eye on germany and the european of rights european court of human rights adjudicates the convention and all signed up. members defer to the european court of human rights under the convention. that also sits outside of the eu and that also sits outside the eu, except , and that also sits outside the eu, except, and this is important to know that under the new trade and cooperation agreement we signed with the eu , we have committed to not leave the european convention of human rights. right. did you get that

. erm i might add a brief test was the end to make sure you're paying was the end to make sure you're paying attention. right. let's get to brass tacks shall get down to brass tacks shall we. this whole human rights act, it's been there's been talk of replacing for british bill replacing it for a british bill of for years and years. of rights for years and years. yes. apparently he's yes. yeah rishi, apparently he's got a bit of gusto beyond it. he wants to make happen, many wants to make it happen, many would is to try and get on would say is to try and get on top of things like the boat crossings. been crossings. we've just been talking. yeah. where do you stand it all? so the stand on it all? so the government has insisted on deaung government has insisted on dealing the illegal dealing with the illegal crossings of the channel through a deportation policy . and of a deportation policy. and of course, the problem they face whenever an illegal crossing of the channel takes place and you get a migrant a would be asylum seeker on uk soil, get a migrant a would be asylum seeker on uk soil , they're seeker on uk soil, they're immediately protected by human rights law in this country and of course the european convention of human rights. and that difficult to that makes it very difficult to deport them because and this is another thing people need to know about human rights. it's adjudicated on a case by case, individual by individual basis . individual by individual basis. so every person has a specific

story they need to tell , and story they need to tell, and thatis story they need to tell, and that is heard by the court process . and then there's process. and then there's appeals and eventually you can go the european court of go to the european court of human strasbourg and human rights in strasbourg and that makes it very hard to deport people. and because the government sees border control through the prism of deportation and actually i think deportation is fail border control. but because it sees it that way, it's forever passing new laws to try and neuter their ability , try and neuter their ability, their inability to deport people. that's effectively where it comes from. but i don't think they'll succeed. but do you think they should be even trying to do their to get rid of the human rights act and make a british bill of rights with our wants, needs, desires? if you would like, at the forefront? well we've had this before, michel . i just want to remind michel. i just want to remind everyone that under priti patel, she brought forward single and nationality and borders build . nationality and borders build. you remember that which is now an and were told that an act and we were told that once this is passed, have once this is passed, we'll have all legislative firepower we all the legislative firepower we need illegal need to prevent illegal

crossings of the channel. but of course didn't because we have course we didn't because we have the act and we have the human rights act and we have the human rights act and we have the european convention of human rights. i just don't think rights. and i just don't think the government's going to have the government's going to have the ability to get this over the line, of our line, partly because of our international treaty commitments and because the optics of and partly because the optics of depriving someone of the right to make that into visual case. the point the point here is that deportation is very difficult if you want to stop illegal crossings of the channel. and this is where kevin and i may begin to disagree . if you want begin to disagree. if you want to stop illegal crossings of the channel to stop illegal crossings of the channel, you have to stop them in the water. you've got to take control of our territorial waters and send these boats back to france. i can hear my view as shouting at the screens in agreement with that last sentiment whole british sentiment on this whole british bill rights thing. kevin bill of rights thing. kevin where want to, i think it's where you want to, i think it's a funny priority really for rishi sunak. i do agree with ben that he's going to find it difficult to put this through. and i don't really have a huge problem with the existing human rights framework this country

rights framework in this country and this report that is and in this report that is triggered, story today, triggered, this story today, which by a cross—party group which is by a cross—party group of parliamentarians, of of parliamentarians, house of lords and the house of commons, what's really interesting is the quote they say there are quote where they say there are groups people who will no groups of people who will no longer be to rely on public longer be able to rely on public authorities within the authorities acting within the convention of human rights groups have come these camps groups have come to these camps in representing victims in pairs representing victims involved against violence against women and girls , against women and girls, residents of care, homes and families to whose loved ones have been killed in incidents by the police or other state. actors who are concerned . actors who are very concerned. and my six and my five have also expressed concerns about it and personally . the priority ought personally. the priority ought to be if you're talking about law and order and criminality, things like low rate convictions , the backlogs in the courts, the underfunding of the criminal justice service and i think, you know, there's a fair debate to be had. also about deportation of boats in the water, which are you know, i think ben's position is very fair. a lot of people hold it not mine, but hold it not not mine, but i

think rishi won't get this through. a tory through. this isn't just a tory thing as well, because gordon brown back in, i think two thousand and seven, he was very keen to have a british bill of rights when it came to this rights when it came to all this as well. this is something as well. so this is something that governments and that fund governments and parties around in parties and goes around in circles. the quote that just circles. the quote that you just gave care is gave about care homes is interesting, but the bit that i found more interesting found even more interesting than that the same group of that from the same group of people is that getting rid of this human rights act, replacing it with a british bill of human rights do they say it rights would do they say it would our international would damage our international reputation as guardians of human rights, which made me kind of think it's not our job. yeah, think it's not ourjob. yeah, i loathe it when they invoke this sort of fear of our reputation being damaged as a as a government, what our government has to primarily do is put british interests first. it has to do it. and this notion that we must shy away from doing what's right for the united kingdom because of the people, may take a dim view of it is utterly ridiculous . it's time we utterly ridiculous. it's time we actually developed a bit of a

backbone as a nation and started championing british rights unashamedly. that's that's what got me into the electorate. put them in government to protect them in government to protect the electorate and promote the electorate's rights. and what's in their interests, do you think we're supposed to be in to curry favour with international. i, i, i don't object to that sentence i think is as much as maybe ben does. i, i'm quite proud if my country, whoever is ruling it at the time, which have a policy is championing human rights on the international stage. britain has been earlier alluded to has a long track record of doing that. the reason i didn't pick that quote out is, is quite rightly because that sense sense is not really that persuasive in terms of this debate. i understand why you've chosen it, but i, i take a more relaxed view about the british government leading on human rights. yeah. because this whole kind of oh, britain's reputation the international reputation on the international stage, i've had conversations about the deportation of about the whole deportation of the to rwanda. so of the flights to rwanda. so of course will be aware course everyone will be aware now is being ruled legal

now that it is being ruled legal to deport these people, to rwanda. but of course, it's not happening . and then when i've happening. and then when i've asked people on this panel, why is it not happening, i remember asking our security. asking our homeland security. security said it said said, security said it said he said, well, it's because you know what that will the you know, that will do to the you know, the damage of location . and the damage of our location. and i the care about that. so i mean, the care about that. so it's really important to understand that just because the rwandan deportation in rwandan deportation policy in itself isn't illegal, it doesn't mean that you'll be able to deport anyone pursuant to that that policy . and the point i'm that policy. and the point i'm trying to make really is that, again, just to repeat myself, human rights is a case by case issue . so even the rwandan issue. so even the rwandan principle may work actually to apply it is just virtually impossible because there will be loads of court cases, loads of appeals , and eventually it goes appeals, and eventually it goes to the other. and we all remember the picture of that large plane sitting on the tarmac, 299 passengers removed by british courts. and then the

last passenger who was patiently waiting to fly to rwanda was taken out by the dhl. waiting to fly to rwanda was taken out by the dhl . so, i taken out by the dhl. so, i mean, the whole thing just collapsed. well, give me your thoughts on that. do you get concerned about britain's standing on the international stage ? are you reading things stage? are you reading things like what kevin just pointed out and thinking perhaps , hang on a and thinking perhaps, hang on a second, we do need this human rights act or do you have trust and faith the government that and faith in the government that if basically replaced with if we basically replaced it with a british bill of rights, that all our needs and wants and all of our needs and wants and all of our needs and wants and all the rest of it would be properly looked after. give me your thoughts, gb views gbnews.uk. i have a quick gbnews.uk. and i have a quick break. when i come i'll be break. when i come back, i'll be sharing your thoughts on sharing some of your thoughts on that are and that topic. there are lots. and i to talk about i also want to talk about britain's excess death rate. what's on, concerned what's going on, how concerned should and it's all been should we be? and it's all been looked into investigated looked into and investigated properly. i'll see you .

in two. hello. i used three drug fees and i'm going to be doing some shows for gb news for two reasons. one, then i'll switch to . and two, they want to. and two, they want programming for viewers who are completely out of touch, a much neglect demographic. so stay out of touch with me . of touch with me. all of little bit. john, please. and i am looking forward to that. that is for sure. anyway i welcome back. i'm michelle dewberry. i'm with you seven alongside and you till seven alongside pip and habib. there's phone brexit habib. there's the phone brexit party mep and ceo of first property group kevin craig, the political expert political communications expert and the ceo of are . welcome back and the ceo of are. welcome back to you guys as well . we've just to you guys as well. we've just been having a conversation about the human rights act. all the british bill of rights, whichever one you favour. alan has said, michel, this will never change. there are too many politicians with too many human rights friends , as

rights lawyers, friends, as alison says , rishi needs to get alison says, rishi needs to get rid of the are not replace it . rid of the are not replace it. paul says first repeal the human rights act. it only seems to serve criminals and opportunistic lawyers , as i have opportunistic lawyers, as i have to say , if you're a human rights to say, if you're a human rights lawyer , you're not getting much lawyer, you're not getting much positive hitting in my inbox. tonight's i shall put it like that. i should put it mildly like that. matthew says the eu is not signed up to the charter and will not sign up. so that speaks vole coombs does that speaks vole coombs does that speak volumes ? well, member speak volumes? well, member states in the eu are pretty much all signed up as far as i'm aware. i think that isn't quite right, paul says. why out the human rights of the people who will born here, always taking precedence. i don't know. you told me in that i suspect, is the million dollar question. right. talk dying, the million dollar question. right. talk dying , shall right. let's talk dying, shall we? let it be said that i don't tackle a cheery subject some gb news because get this 17,381 deaths were registered in england and wales in the week

ending january the 13th. that is 2857. more than the weekly average. for the same time last yeah average. for the same time last year. hm this whole topic of excess deaths. kevin it's been kind of in the headlines a bit. i would say not as much as it ought to be . the health ought to be. the health secretary. steve barclay he's been called, i quote, it's part man , part ostrich when it comes man, part ostrich when it comes to tackling and investigating the issue. i think we all know what's meant by that . how what's meant by that. how concerned about this are you ? concerned about this are you? i'm very concerned. i think the numbers of excess deaths reported are very worrying. put to one side and maybe we can avoid going down the covid 19 debate route again tonight. but i just think there are the numbers of people dying which are statistically out of kilter, is hugely concerning . i think it is hugely concerning. i think it links back to the state of the nhs. i think i think it links back to in a in a way some knock

on health effects from the pandemic, not the covid 19 itself. i think we should be very concerned, but look at waiting lists, look at nursing vacancies, the levels of obesity and ill health. it all feeds together to produce a perfect storm. i don't know how could how could one not be worried by these numbers? yeah, i'm very worried about them. and i am praying that neither i nor any of my loved ones get ill right now because the national health service is an absolute mess, service is in an absolute mess, waiting lists longer than your arms together for ambulance arms put together for ambulance response times like the most important categories. 7 minutes response target. currently just in england, it's about 11 minutes or so. so there's all loads of things going on, all of which are kind of been discussed. how concerned about this are you? ben i'm concerned, too, and i that 3000 excess death figure for the for the week to 30 january isn't a one off. we've had 30,000 excess deaths since the 5th of august.

so that's about one and a half thousand a week. and i believe somewhere between 305 hundred people are dying a week because they can't get any attention fast enough. and that is symptomatic , as kevin says, of symptomatic, as kevin says, of a of the nhs effectively being broken and i do think however it is important to look back at the pandemic, mick, you know before the pandemic and before government response to the pandemic, waiting lists were on full million for seven weeks, over four, seven weeks for the nhs and now they're about seven one half million, 14 weeks and that's behind to have an impact and a lot of people, including myself during that during lockdown were saying this is not just an economic issue, an economic problem you're creating with lockdowns by making the nhs focus virtually exclusively on covid, you are storing up health issues for the future and it's very important. i mean, we did what we did. the policy response was the policy was policy response. and i don't want to go

back and unnecessarily attack that , but back and unnecessarily attack that, but it's very important to recognise this is the cause and effect here so that the government doesn't make the same mistake we have to trade mistake again. we have to trade through , we have to kind of get through, we have to kind of get through, we have to kind of get through these a health setbacks without causing bigger problems for the future , both for the future, both economically and in terms of health. and i think also i just want to talk very briefly about the vaccine. you know, we there's a lot of kind of chat going on on at least on social media about whether the vaccines are causing some of this excess death. and the government is virtually steadfastly refusing to produce the figures on it. and look , i can be no more and look, i can be no more certain that the vaccine was bad as i can be certain that it was good. as i can be certain that it was good . but as a member of the good. but as a member of the pubuc good. but as a member of the public , i do know that it takes public, i do know that it takes 10 to 15 years to get a medicine from conception to sales. and these vaccines were created a novel form of vaccine were created in record time.

astrazeneca was banned in a number of countries in europe and is now not being used. so there are questions that to be answered about the vaccine as well, which the government needs to get on and address. otherwise the kind of conspiracy theories and all kind of chat which and all the kind of chat which i'm us have seen on i'm sure all of us have seen on social media just fuelled. social media is just fuelled. we've get ahead of that we've got to get ahead of that and address that head on. yeah. and i will say, in terms of the time frame, because people will be watching this saying was be watching this saying it was accelerated the accelerated because all the resources were pushed it. and resources were pushed to it. and that of the things that that was one of the things that allowed be accelerated allowed it to be accelerated quickly it was, quickly as it was, notwithstanding of that, notwithstanding any of that, i am really concerned that this issue is not being explored. sunlight is the best disinfectant. everyone gets called a conspiracy theory . you called a conspiracy theory. you even put previously dead to have a conversation about vaccine harm , damage, side effects, harm, damage, side effects, whatever you want . people's whatever you want. people's accounts were shut down. people were vilified, immediately called, anti—vax , which i find called, anti—vax, which i find bizarre because if someone's had a vaccine and then been a side

effects by definition they're not announcing vaccine. they just had the vaccine. but do just had the vaccine. but i do feel concerned because i don't know what is causing these excess deaths. i'm not an expert, but i am , as we all are, expert, but i am, as we all are, somebody that's been repeatedly asked to have repeated covid vaccines and i personally would like to see whether or not a proper investigation. kevin into whether or not the vaccine is are a contributing factor to these excess deaths. and i would go as far as saying that until you can explicitly rule out that these vaccines have not contributed towards these excess deaths, you should be pressing pause on any future rollouts. what would you say to that? are you suggesting that the covid 19 vaccination programme for adults who are consenting should be stopped? what i'm saying is that we're in a situation if you strip our covid related deaths, for example, for the age range, 35 to 54, i take out the covid deaths. you've got about an 8 to

10% excess death for it. we know that there's a variety of factors. we discuss them at length from here. the nhs is broken. i would say , but i would broken. i would say, but i would also say the common also say that the common denominator that so many people have covid have had is multiple covid vaccines . and if you want to ask vaccines. and if you want to ask people to continue having these vaccines and of course people can do what they want as a government, you should be in a position where you can almost conclude, simply rule out any link between the vaccines that people have had and the excess deaths . the testing statistic is deaths. the testing statistic is to be put out. so, i mean , yeah, to be put out. so, i mean, yeah, i do. i mean, i think any reasonable person would not want to shut down, you know, investor gafion to shut down, you know, investor gation or in questioning an inquiry into the full extent of, you know, what the impact of the unintended impact of vaccines might be. right. my observation is that that debate happens all the time , that no one is the time, that no one is actively trying to shut it down.

i don't think reasonably anyone would contest that because you won't ultimately do it. the better health come outcomes if you just carry on. but the thing that i think must be said is that i think must be said is that and i've always said it, i don't take away from any people who've had a adverse reaction. we've had some in my family. i took part in the vaccination programme of st john's ambulance volunteer. i believe the vaccination programme helped get our back on its feet. our country back on its feet. but i am absolutely open and supportive of proper data around what the consequence is of reactions might be. as and as an aside. and i think somebody like andrew bridgen, who's lost the tory whip in parliament, i don't think he's being shut down per say for the subject and nor should he be . it was the manner should he be. it was the manner in which he raised it. but i think you have the perfect right to ask these questions. well, you say you've got the perfect right to these questions. right to ask these questions. anyone has tried to anyone that has tried to ask these questions, raised these questions have been questions, they have been censored . i know a girl she was censored. i know a girl she was medically confirmed having an

medically confirmed as having an adverse reaction the adverse reaction to the vaccines. it went global . many vaccines. it went global. many of will know the past and of you will know the past and i'm it was when i'm talking about it was when her was going all the her legs was going and all the rest it she instagram shot rest of it she instagram shot her account down and i think how dare that is a person who's dare you that is a person who's got medical diagnosis from got a medical diagnosis from health professionals . and how health professionals. and how dare as a social media dare you as a social media company, think that you know better what does and better than what she does and had neurosurgeon or whatever the title about her case. so title is know about her case. so i would argue that that conversation about vaccine side effects being effects is absolutely being censored . it continues to be censored. it continues to be censored. it continues to be censored . and if it was me, i'd censored. and if it was me, i'd actually politicised, you know, we had tony blair last week at the world economic forum saying there register of there should be a register of everyone vaccinated. everyone who's been vaccinated. well that's interference well that's state interference in one's own, you know, one's right to govern one's own body and i just i think it's a really nasty, thin end of the wedge , nasty, thin end of the wedge, you know, that's being driven in in by the government . and in by the government. and they've got to come clean on it . and the other thing that i think is absolutely wrong is

insisting that people are vaccinated. it should be a matter of choice. it has to be a matter of choice. it has to be a matter if it's a vaccine and i have it, i should be comfortable that it's protecting me. i should therefore be comfortable to mix with people who haven't had it . and if it's not had it. and if it's not protecting me in that way, then it ain't a vaccine, right? is it a i don't wish to interrupt in way, but it is a choice now in our country to be vaccinated or not, isn't it? well, when you . not, isn't it? well, when you. well, there's a very fine line between choice and coercion. and i would say that the campaign of coercion that we experienced in this country was nothing short of a national scandal. we campaigned on this issue. we had an out day at, the mandate campaign, it was wholly wrong in my personal opinion, to force people , coerce people by threat people, coerce people by threat of removing their job. for example, if they didn't get it, it was wrong. ability to travel, inability to mix in public places. you know, all these things were threatened and instituted. and you had people

like jacinda ardern , of course like jacinda ardern, of course she's putting her, you know, she's putting her, you know, she's stepping down, you know, smiling and celebrate the fact that yes, i will create a two tier society between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated , how dare you. well, anyway , , how dare you. well, anyway, for balance, if i may, there is an alternative point of view of course, which is equally valid as the ones that have just been expressed, which says that nobody was coercing, that governments were intending to protect public in an emergency . protect public in an emergency. and these measures were taken in extremis drugs had to be developed at high speed. but the ultimate motive was one of good intentions and that is an equally valid opinion. well, i will leave it with you, the viewer , to make your own mind viewer, to make your own mind upon that. and i would say is if the government's got that's good an intention, they can direct the good intentions into properly into whether or properly looking into whether or not there is a link between the vaccine the side and the access

that i have no idea . but if that i have no idea. but if we're going to be asked to taking these vaccines or asked to take them all, suggested to take them, we should be absolutely qatar correctly clear that they are not contributing to the excess deaths situation in this country and beyond. anyway, give me all your thoughts gbviews@gbnews.uk uk when i come back . it would be when i come back. it would be rude not to talk about business given the eye of two of britain's top business gurus sat next to me . many businesses are next to me. many businesses are going bust now. what should the government intervene to help them ? you tell me. i'll see you them? you tell me. i'll see you

in two. hello there. i'm michelle dewberry . this is dewbs& co away dewberry. this is dewbs& co away with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, ben habib, the former brexit party mep and ceo of first property group, and kevin craig, the political

communications guru and ceo of are basically two of britain's finest business brands. what a treat for us. the reason that is relevant tonight is because this fierce that 2023 could see even more businesses go out of business. basically due to the cost of living crises . business. basically due to the cost of living crises. is business. basically due to the cost of living crises . is the cost of living crises. is the number of firms going both has jumped more than a third towards the end of last year, which makes me wonder ben habib , you makes me wonder ben habib, you know, you guys have set up your own businesses. not every business works. that is unfortunately a fact of life. do you think the government should be getting involved to try and help businesses from going bust ? i absolutely not. i mean, there's been far too much government interference in the private sector already . the private sector already. the interference started , you know, interference started, you know, with perhaps a necessary intervention in 2008 when the banking set not perhaps it was a necessary intervention to rescue banks that otherwise was a collapse of financial system. but that has set off a train of events which has brought

capitalism to its knees and allowed governments to lockdown. i'm just going to explain that the way we rescue the banks is to print money and we got used to print money and we got used to printing money and so when it came to the response to the pandemic, when we locked people down, the bank of england printed , i think, down, the bank of england printed, i think , £500 billion printed, i think, £500 billion in order to get that cost in order to get over that cost hurdle. it gave government the ability to strip us of our civil rights and it kicked the private sector very hard in the shins. but having done that , we've got but having done that, we've got you don't put you don't put that wrong right by further government interference. what the government really now needs to do is get out of businesses way . it needs to make it way. it needs to make it a better landscape for businesses as it should be cutting taxes, not putting them up. it should be deregulate things, taking the burden of regulation off business so business can deliver a rated tax less . and the a rated tax less. and the particular taxes that i would focus on corporation tax would

be up there. but it's not my primary tax that i would target and let businesses then suck circumnavigate the difficulties they face. there's nothing like a proprietor who knows best for his business. he knows how to navigate the landscape better than the government. well the more government interference we have, the more cans get kicked down the road, the more complications they create in the long run. we've got to get government out of business and they've got enough problems sorting out public sector. sorting out the public sector. that's should focus . that's where they should focus. they're how rishi they're talking about how rishi is. memo i'm getting from is. the memo i'm getting from there. kevin, do you agree ? i there. kevin, do you agree? i wouldn't be as hard core, if you like in the response, in the way that ben has. because i think in this country dating back you know, hundreds of years, we have a history of government intervention in business where i do suspect we agree that fundament if a business is fundamentally failing or not going to succeed. and you alluded to the high number of businesses that that's businesses that make it that's not government's place to artificially sustain a company

or an enterprise in the pandemic. again i wouldn't share the view about our rights were eroded. i think the government intervened. it was one of the things they did well. i thought in terms of measures to support companies. i think and also companies. but i think and also we need to be aware that hundreds of millions of pounds of money are money of government money are money are being given to are still being given to companies help medical benign companies to help medical benign and other sorts of things. so there is a lot of money given to business government, but on the fundamental question, this fundamental question, and this is survey the end is about survey the smaller end of the market, should the government be interfering to help survive a business that the fundamentals are not right then know over the long term that doesn't work. and unless my eyes were deceiving me and i don't think, they were the images that you just seen on screen then i'm sure that white good, sure that was white for good, which a street in my hometown which is a street in my hometown of hope. almost like of hope. it's almost like a ghost now. it used be ghost town now. it used to be the go to one of the go to destinations that you do shopping on is what will see shopping on is what you will see that seeing all the

that you are seeing all the empty shops, the to let signs and rest of it and many and all the rest of it and many people criticise things people will criticise things like were just alluding like what you were just alluding to rates the to then about rates etc. the business rates, it's a classic tax. they've got to cut business rates. that were rates. the businesses that were most affected during most adversely affected during lockdowns businesses that lockdowns were businesses that operate world. operate in the physical world. so retailers, leisure operators, hospitality and so on, and they need a helping hand through the regulatory and tax framework, not by individual government spending , but by the government spending, but by the government reducing that impact their businesses. so classic taxes are businesses. so classic taxes are business rates cut those that that's just a tax on doing business reduce vat so people can afford your services more. don't eliminate vat on foreign buyers of british goods, which is what the government did. absolutely crazy policy hitting our tourist trade and put pushing tourists towards europe . you know that multitude of different things government can do to help businesses , but what do to help businesses, but what they mustn't do is micro manage they mustn't do is micro manage the private sector. they've got to get out of our way. i say

yes, the government really needs to just leave us to get on with life. and it says a lot of these businesses, michel, would probably survive the probably survive with the directors so much directors didn't take so much money out spending on money out spending them on things expensive cars and things like expensive cars and high ceo salaries. barbara says . what about you last, michelle? those charges will really help get rid of many different companies. why do you stand on that ? was you about companies. why do you stand on that? was you about you companies. why do you stand on that ? was you about you took companies. why do you stand on that? was you about you took an intake of breath, kevin which about what appropriately we mentioning the you list the charges linked to air quality in london. yeah yeah i mean i'm i'm very supportive of, of that because our air in london is basically dangerous. but tax is government getting out of the way. britain still is a great place to start a business and make a success of it. i think you know, i think and my perception is that the british pubuc perception is that the british public want the government to be where it needs to be interventionist, whether it's in pubuc interventionist, whether it's in public services or , in emergency

public services or, in emergency housing, pandemic support , housing, pandemic support, supporting businesses, allow them to survive . and we do have them to survive. and we do have a long history under the conservative and labour governments of supporting our economy. and if you look at, for example, the whole agenda put forward by keir starmer and co, thatis forward by keir starmer and co, that is intervene honest but that is intervene honest but that will create jobs and drive the economy and that's going to cost the excheque r £1.4 cost the exchequer £1.4 trillion. this is precise through the kind of intervention we don't want . it's through the kind of intervention we don't want. it's bearing through the kind of intervention we don't want . it's bearing down we don't want. it's bearing down on business in our ability to disagree with. we have an anti—growth government. the anti —growth government. the government anti—growth government. the government that's borrowed to the hilt to component in more. it's not taxing us to the hilt well we just can't go on like this. it's no surprise 36% of these smaller businesses are going bust. well, i'll tell you what, you've just opened the door to a fantastic debate, and that's one we're going to have another day. you less as well. where you stand on that? are where do you stand on that? are you a supporter of that or not? give me thoughts on give me your thoughts on everything you just heard got to take quick purely for

take a quick break. purely for time i do want time reasons, because i do want to and squeeze more to try and squeeze one more thing before i say goodbye. thing in before i say goodbye. i wonder , how when it wonder, how are you when it comes to stating the obvious? i mean we've all got a pair of eyes at work. i'm very but more and more seeing things seem to be going on, but it just not quite right. i'm wondering, do think whole of being think this whole worry of being called a racist than called a bigger a racist than a perfectly transphobic tenor or whatever , choosing the whatever it is, choosing the fear being called those is fear of being called those is leading safety issues. leading to public safety issues. i do . give me your thoughts. i do. give me your thoughts. i'll see you .

in two. hi there, michelle dewberry . hi there, michelle dewberry. this is dewbs& co away with you till seven alongside me. ben habib, the former brexit party mep and ceo of property group, and kevin craig , the political and kevin craig, the political communications expert and ceo of paloma, richard says michelle, your panel is class. tonight is

a lesson in how to debate in a civilised manner and it is glorious . civilised manner and it is glorious. i'll say to you is look at sir richard and see the state last time they were on together. but tonight i do agree it's very nice date. i'm very much enjoying it. it's right. let me ask you this . can you let me ask you this. can you remember when this happened ? remember when this happened? good to see you . good to see good to see you. good to see you. thanks very much . so you. thanks very much. so disaster , we're all . just you disaster, we're all. just you should never put me with that woman. what is just. oh, everything. she just. it's all bigoted woman . so she used to be bigoted woman. so she used to be very suitable . you might very suitable. you might remember that. i certainly do. i'll never forget it. in fact, it was the. his mike went a bit crackly the end. but basically what he was saying is he was calling gillian duffy, the woman who dared to raise concerns about immigration . he basically about immigration. he basically said was a bigot. and said that she was a bigot. and i think that this a worry in fact,

that this trend has continued because i have a pair of eyes, ben habib, they work not as well as they should. hence the my spectacles. but notwithstanding that i spectacles. but notwithstanding thati can spectacles. but notwithstanding that i can see in society that there are so many things going on right now are just simply not quite right. that most clear thinking , quite right. that most clear thinking, common sense individuals can see are not right. but nobody saying anything about it. i give you a couple of examples. you've got grown men pretending to be kids, people putting them in classrooms alongside kids when they're not kids at all. you've got men grooming and sexually abusing children and people danng abusing children and people daring not to say anything about it in case they're called racists. you've got other grown men raping women, sticking a skirt on, then saying that they're now a woman. i want to be in female prisons. most people can see this is wrong, but , continuing. but yeah, it's continuing. what's on? well, i mean, what's going on? well, i mean, you're absolutely spot on and there is a fear of being called a bigot or a racist or a misogynist just because you express what you and i might

regard as a common sense view. and i mean, i i'm hesitant to invoke woke. but this is effectively the woke agenda taking control of this society . taking control of this society. and i'll just define woke the way i see it. the way i see woke is the ostensible championing of minority rights at the exclusion and often the detriment of the majority . so they get hold of majority. so they get hold of a minority issue and they really drive it home. blm was a great example. you know, black lives matter. it's self—evident that all lives matter that can be no benefit in. promoting one person's life over another person's life over another person's life over another person's life and the same happening now with transgender legislation. you know, there are less a quarter of a million people who are transgender in this country. well, as defined by the last census, i dread to think, quite frankly, how many more people will now define themselves as transgender, because i think this is an ideology that's been promoted, too much within schools. so i worry about what the next figure would be. but, you know , that's

would be. but, you know, that's that's 0.4% less than 0.4% of the population. and yet you have almost a constitutional crisis arising out of nicholas sturgeon age and passing laws which were inherent beyond what hollyrood was allowed to do in the promotion of effectively transgender operations for younger people . and i think younger people. and i think we've got to get a grip and what i would say to nicholas sturgeon is that if you're born a man, you are biologically a man, you may have an operation to make yourself feel and look more like a woman, but you remain a biological man and you should have all the obligations and rights that a man has, not a woman having . craig i mean, the woman having. craig i mean, the clip that i played that was gordon brown, the labour party did well. that clip is actually looking back . i find it funny looking back. i find it funny really because very awkward. and then of course the clip that you didn't show afterwards is gordon going round in profusely not for

calling a but for the reaction to it and b being found out. now eat apologised for it , calling eat apologised for it, calling her a bigot because he realised that. so you know, flowers and chocolates, the works i, i mean the story this triggered this discussion in the everywhere everywhere is ridiculous . lots everywhere is ridiculous. lots of people today have come out and said that david blunkett, former labour home secretary, just says it doesn't make any sense. i it's interesting when you said just now i dread to think how many people next time in the census will declare themselves trans. i mean my take on it is, is that and the opinion polls show this that most people overall that they're tired of the whole sort of discussion around identity. so i qualify that statement because i do when i say i dread to think i don't have a problem with anyone that's genuinely trans. so i wasn't claiming it from that angle. what i'm coming at it from is believe that so many

from is i believe that so many young having this young people now having this pushed onto them, you know, you're a boy, what? you're a boy, but guess what? you girl. you know, you can be a girl. you know, this can't you can. you're not happy. or maybe you're not happy because really, because actually, really, you were a girl. think it's were a girl. and i think it's breeding confusion. and that is what well, would what concerns me. well, i would probably with you both probably disagree with you both that institutions our that the institutions of our country pushing on any young country are pushing on any young person and encouraging them to declare one way or the other. i mean, the problem like woke is used and thrown around, of course, is a derogatory term often i get called it very hurtful . often after appearing hurtful. often after appearing on your show for having mildly left of centre views and you know, you call a lot worse and there is . but i think for me there is. but i think for me society , you know, i think we've society, you know, i think we've progressed, we are you know, i go back to 25 years, i'll reiterate again tonight when the country was institutionally homophobic seconds left to go back 25. so i think we've moved in the right direction. we're a kind of more understanding

society , too. and i think we society, too. and i think we just need to talk less about gender or identity issues because most brits are not that bothered to know. i think i just think people have need to have the i almost said, well, i can't say what i want to say because it's tea time, but you just come on, we all know what's right. we all know what's going on. please, can we just be a little bit sensible on that business? so many people will affected so many people will be affected by businesses might by this. your businesses might have remember have gone bust. remember this, first learning. first attempt in learning. that's fail means you that's what fail means if you ask me if you get knocks, keep going. try again. you too could be successful as these chaps. be as successful as these chaps. one though he wouldn't one day, even though he wouldn't employ gloss over that employ me, will gloss over that . but that is all we have time for. i very much have enjoyed the conversation you the conversation with you to enjoy your company at home tonight . always get in touch tonight. always get in touch with me. gb views . gbnews.uk is with me. gb views. gbnews.uk is the that you can reach me the way that you can reach me and you can tweet me as well. michelle james i shall leave you to go into your evening with a glorious memory of this . you

glorious memory of this. you hello there. i'm greg. you, hurst and welcome to our latest broadcast rain clearing seven areas. the next few hours and then we've got a patchy frost developing tonight but that will lead to plenty of sunny spells for thursday . looking at the for thursday. looking at the bigger high pressure bigger picture, high pressure still weather still dominates the weather pattern clears south pattern. this front clears south over few hours. then over the next few hours. then we're at largely dry we're looking at a largely dry day we head through the day day as we head through the day on thanks to that area on thursday, thanks to that area of high pressure for the evening time, that rain just clearing the far south and then skies turning starry for many of us as we head into the early hours, the risk of a few showers across northern scotland down northern scotland running down the times, but the east coast at times, but otherwise plenty of clear spells cold tonight across the north of the uk. less cold across the south, but temperatures generally hovering around the freezing mark, there freezing mark, meaning there will patchy frost to will be some patchy frost to start day on thursday . start the day on thursday. showers across eastern areas on thursday do push their way a

little further westwards inland, but between . and on but few and far between. and on the light side, so many places dry. sunshine across dry. best of the sunshine across western scotland, northern ireland down into wales. here unbroken at times temperatures overall generally around average for the time of year, but feeling less cold compared to the week so far across southern parts of england, in particular through to the evening time on thursday. still the risk of some showers across eastern coast . showers across eastern coast. these making their way inland a little as we head into the early hours. clear skies developing across parts of northern ireland and scotland . so widespread, and scotland. so widespread, frost here, some frost developing here, some freezing fog, patches , too, as freezing fog, patches, too, as temperatures fall below freezing across england and wales, though, just hovering just above freezing. perhaps a patchy freezing. so perhaps a patchy frost start friday. sunny frost to start friday. sunny skies across northern ireland. scotland, though, some fog patches lingering for a time here. sunny spells for england and wales for the day. most places to the dry places holding on to the dry weather until later on where we'll see weather front just we'll see a weather front just introducing clouds, stronger winds and some rain into the far

northwest . temperatures northwest. temperatures around average more into the average once more into the weekend. jemmy stays on the cloudy and dry side. temperatures around average .

good evening, gb news is mark wise but in dover all day as hundreds once again cross the engush hundreds once again cross the english channel and we're heanng english channel and we're hearing plainclothes military on the beaches just how great do our security services think the threat might be levelling up? a big speech from michael gove, the west midlands. not happy about this. i've got a conservative and a labour mp coming on the program to tell us why they think they've got a pretty rotten deal . and joining pretty rotten deal. and joining me on talking pints cult film celebrity hard man, hero thomas . i have to watch my step, but

before all of that,