at six. i'm ray anderson in the gb newsroom the labour party says rishi sunak still has questions to answer following his sacking of nadhim zahawi , the prime of nadhim zahawi, the prime minister made the decision after an ethics inquiry found that the party chairman had committed a serious breach of the ministerial code. mr. zahawi been facing questions over his affairs after admitting that he paid a penalty to hmrc for an error. chair of the labour party, anneliese dodds, says

she's written to rishi. what did he know and when about that enormous settlement that nadhim zahawi was negotiating with hmrc and the huge penalty that he had to pay.7 appointed and the huge penalty that he had to pay? appointed rishi sunak's say in parliament that all questions have been answered about this affair on why on earth is the prime minister holding up this rogue's gallery of conservative ministers with others who obviously have broken security rules, who are subject to allegation of very serious bullying ? and yet the prime bullying? and yet the prime minister seems too weak to act against them. to scotland and now newly convicted transgender person with a history of violence against women will be placed in female prisons there. the temporary measures aim to ensure the safety of inmates while the management of trans prisoners is examined . the prisoners is examined. the decision comes ahead of an urgent review into lessons learned by the case of convicted double rapist isla bryson , who

double rapist isla bryson, who was originally sent to a women's prison . a 16 year old boy has prison. a 16 year old boy has been charged with the murder of a teenage girl in hexham. 15 year old holly newton was stabbed in the popular area of the town on friday. she died in hospital. the 16 year old boy was also injured in the attack. the accused , who can't be named the accused, who can't be named for legal reasons , has also been for legal reasons, has also been charged with attempted murder and possession of an offence of weapon . the government will weapon. the government will pubush weapon. the government will publish an urgent emergency care plan tomorrow to try to tackle pressures on the nhs. it comes as the health department announced plans to build virtual beds, caring for tens of thousands of elderly and vulnerable people in their own homes. the health secretary says shifting care away from hospitals will reduce waiting times . however, shadow health times. however, shadow health secretary wes streeting is accusing the government of sticking plaster politics. it seems we've gone from 14 new hospitals to hospitals at home.

i think a lot people will say, well, how will i be able to be treated in my own home if the government's half the number of district nurses who are essential to provide support in the community? i think this is a government that's run out of steam, run out of ideas and isn't able to deal with the fundamental problems of the nhs . and so they're resorting to sticking plasters and the head of the welsh rugby union has resigned amid allegations of a toxic culture within the governing body. steve phillips decision comes after the w you announced an external taskforce will investigate claims of misogyny , sexism, racism and misogyny, sexism, racism and homophobe phobia in the institution . former wales wicket institution. former wales wicket nigel walker has become acting ceo. he warned of an existential crisis for welsh rugby ahead of the six nations. we're on tv, onune the six nations. we're on tv, online and on derby radio. this is the people's channel gb news. time now for free speech nation

and -- and. -- and . the scottish prison service and. the scottish prison service announces a review . the announces a review. the accommodation of trans prisoners. ritchie sunak sex nadhim zahawi and actor alan cumming hands back his problematic obe this is free speech nation . welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle . this week the snp did doyle. this week the snp did something very out of character. it admitted that trans women , it admitted that trans women, not women, convicted rapist adam graham, who now goes by the name of isla bryson, was being housed in colton vale, a women's prison, while the risk assessment process was underway .then assessment process was underway . then all of a sudden, first minister nicholas sturgeon decided it would be inappropriate for a male rapist to a women's facility . to be in a women's facility. why? not because it was an obviously insane policy , but

obviously insane policy, but because there was a public outcry . and now the scottish outcry. and now the scottish prison service has announced a review of transgender prisoners and they are currently and how they are currently accommodated . it's small step accommodated. it's a small step towards sanity . most of you will towards sanity. most of you will have while sturgeon have seen that while sturgeon was through her gender was pushing through her gender recognition reform bill, in spite fact that spite of the fact that two thirds scottish voters thirds of scottish voters opposed it, she continually accused women who raised concern as of being bigots. accused women who raised concern as of being bigots . sturgeon as of being bigots. sturgeon explicitly said there was no merit to the opposing arguments. how dare women want to have their own spaces , rape crisis their own spaces, rape crisis centres and prison facilities? we were repeatedly told that the very idea a predatory man would lie about his identity to gain admission to vulnerable women was a transphobic dog whistle. but it's simply never happens . but it's simply never happens. and we heard the same in westminster when tory miriam cates raised concerns about the scottish bill because predatory men might exploit self—identification . labour mp self—identification. labour mp lloyd russell—moyle said that speech was probably one of the worst transphobic dog whistle speeches that i've in an awful

long time . labour mp rosie long time. labour mp rosie duffield had also been heckled by colleagues who apparently weren't interested in the fact that the overwhelming majority of violent crimes against women are committed by men and that women spaces are therefore a necessary safeguarding measure. now russell—moyle like nicholas sturgeon believes that anyone who raises these concerns is doing so because they hate trans people, that they are attempting to smear all trans people as predatory . but no one has done predatory. but no one has done that. no one has even come close to doing. russell—moyle and sturgeon are arguing with figments of their imagination and sturgeon doubled down this week. she said that those who were against self id are, quote, misogynist , homophobic, possibly misogynist, homophobic, possibly racist. because why not? i'm surprised you didn't throw an anti—semitic and fat phobic. just for the hell of it . that's just for the hell of it. that's the level of debate these days. assume the worst possible of your opponents and assert them as though they were true . and it as though they were true. and it now transpires that another

prisoner, andrew burns, now known as tiffanie scott, amanda scribed as a quote, one of the most menacing people inside the scottish penal system has also been moved to a female prison. this is an individual who was assaulted prison staff and has been known to bite , open his own been known to bite, open his own veins, to spray blood at people. and an article in today's daily record reports how amanda benson, who was housed in a prison with trans prisoners , prison with trans prisoners, felt compelled to have a contraceptive coil fitted because she feared being raped and becoming pregnant. she said, my and becoming pregnant. she said, my whole in prison was on constant high alert. my nerves were frazzled with fear. these incredibly men were walking around the communal shower area naked and sometimes clearly aroused . myself and other women aroused. myself and other women were in cubicle with only a curtain to . protect us. and last curtain to. protect us. and last week was reported that serial rapist jonathan mallin, a man who targeted women toilets and changing rooms, is now calling himself charlene and boasting to

his fellow inmates that he will be moved to a women's prison by easter . so why be moved to a women's prison by easter. so why is it that this thing that never happens keeps on happening ? well, the answer on happening? well, the answer is simple . on happening? well, the answer is simple. it's on happening? well, the answer is simple . it's because if you is simple. it's because if you introduce yourself, it laws where any man can claim be a woman and he's taken seriously, that will obviously be exploited by dangerous predators. by the british journal of criminology suggested that men who change their gender to female in jail often switch back to their birth sex after release . but how can sex after release. but how can that be? if self i.d. sex after release. but how can that be? if self id. is a flawless system , let me flawless system, let me reiterate for the heart of thinking. i am not suggesting that trans people are inherently . in fact, no one is suggesting this . we're talking about men this. we're talking about men exploiting a system. the snp and other identitarian activist groups claim there is no evidence for this. okay, well, let's look at the figures. so according to the census data just released , one in every just released, one in every quarter million women are convicted. sex one in roughly

every 2500 men are convicted sex offenders. and one in every 585 trans women are convicted sex offenders. so what's going on here? are trans women five times more likely to be sex offenders than other men ? or is it that than other men? or is it that men are exploiting the self i.d. system , that those who are not system, that those who are not trans, who have no feelings of gender dysphoria are claiming to be women to gain to female prisons? it has to be one or the other. which is it, if you will, denying that self id is open to exploitation? then you are effectively claiming that trans are more likely to be predators, which strikes me rather which strikes me as rather transphobic . which strikes me as rather transphobic. in which strikes me as rather transphobic . in truth, it transphobic. in truth, it shouldn't matter whether a prisoner is genuinely or lying about being trans. prisons like rape , crisis centres and rape, crisis centres and domestic violence refuge centres must operate on the basis of sex because gender dysphoria doesn't change your sex. no human being has ever changed sex. and while trans prisoners can be more

vulnerable , that's an argument vulnerable, that's an argument for stronger protection in men's prisons, not a free for all when it comes to female facilities and even nicholas sturgeon this the case of adam graham, a.k.a. is the proves it . if sturgeon is the proves it. if sturgeon really does believe that trans women are women , then she's just women are women, then she's just gone and put a woman in a man's prison. but of course, she knows, as we all know, that trans women are not women . trans women are not women. otherwise they wouldn't be trans. not only is sturgeon not being honest, trans. not only is sturgeon not being honest , not trans. not only is sturgeon not being honest, not only is she seemingly happy to put some of the most vulnerable women in society in danger to satisfy her ideological objectives not only , is she ignoring the views of the majority of scottish voters. she's going to call anyone who disagrees with her a hateful bigot, a transphobe and even possibly a racist . such possibly a racist. such infantile behaviour has no place infantile behaviour has no place in parliament. the electorate deserves a whole lot better .

deserves a whole lot better. now. we did approach the snp on friday. asked to discuss the transgender prison story, but unfortunately they didn't get back to us. i wonder why? anyway, my studio guests this evening are leo kearse and prowse . they are not to our prowse. they are not to our country. first to our of course , the representative of scotland on this panel and the snp and the snp . yes, you represent the snp. yes, you represent them. you must so proud at the moment . what on earth is going moment. what on earth is going on? i mean , the fact that we on? i mean, the fact that we have through all these debates, you know, the snp constantly saying it just never happens. there's even there's no case where even though has happened lot. though it has happened a lot. yeah a nonsense. yeah it's a nonsense. yeah, absolutely mean, there's absolutely. and i mean, there's clear incentives for a minor male sexual predator to one to transition only. do you get sent to a female prison where you can carry on offending but you get a new name. so your crimes that were committed under your old name expunged from from name are expunged from from the internet anybody your internet. anybody searching your name, know , they won't see name, you know, they won't see the crimes done. but also the crimes you've done. but also in case this bryson in the court case of this bryson character, the defence his sort

of council made , the claim that of council made, the claim that because he was going through transition, that goes a long way to wiping slate clean of his crimes. right? i mean, this is pretty dodgy stuff. so it's just like a magic. you just not a magic one that you weave and they turn into. i know scotland, you know, made first you know, made the first advancement when we advancement in this when we invented yeah you invented the kilt. yeah you know, think kind know, i think it's kind of ridiculous assume ridiculous to assume that somebody somebody going somebody is somebody just going to, not behave even to, you know, not behave even the same way because they see they're they're nowhere. they're no, they're nowhere. woman want woman it's utterly. and i want to you this, though. to ask you about this, though. why is it throughout this debate we've had constantly, rosie we've had it constantly, rosie duffield about this duffield spoken out about this whenever can whenever anyone says, can we have conversation this, have a conversation about this, can about the can we talk about the implications, you're implications, oh, you're hateful, transphobic, evil. we've sturgeon we've had nicholas sturgeon saying as saying you're probably racist as well. all about ? i well. what's that all about? i don't know, because i was extremely , tweeting or extremely worried, tweeting or saying that would have saying anything that would have made sound transphobic , made me sound transphobic, because around this issue, where i mean, just looking at this guy in his sort of leggings and clearly he's a rapist that wants to in female job. what to be in female job. what possible could

possible incentive could there be a to want to be in be for a rapist to want to be in a female job? exactly. and all my of colleagues, friends my sort of colleagues, friends on left, have on the left, have been completely silent it. and completely silent about it. and frankly, because, frankly, it's really because, yeah, they're outraged yeah, rightly they're outraged and there's of outcry and there's a lot of outcry about sort of misogyny and abuse in the police force. yeah that's been occupying people's twitter feeds last or so. and feeds for last month or so. and suddenly something like, this suddenly something, like, this comes along and there's just silence. they silence. but you want they really protecting really care about protecting women. i don't understand why there's silence amongst women. i don't understand why there's who silence amongst women. i don't understand why there's who care silence amongst women. i don't understand why there's who care silencetransngst people who care about trans rights anything else rights apart from anything else speaking would help speaking on this would help their cause would them their cause. it would make them seem like that. there is a sort of a shred of rationality and logic in, a lot of their arguments, and it would sort of help their cause. and this stuff like this is really damaging the cause of other transgender people, genuine transgender cause of other transgender people,who uine transgender cause of other transgender people,who put transgender cause of other transgender people,who put the1sgender cause of other transgender people,who put the effortier cause of other transgender people,who put the effort in and people who put the effort in and actually women. i mean actually look like women. i mean , public opinion are , actual the public opinion are showing that support for transgender rights is declining because of because of overreach like this. do you wonder whether i mean, a lot of this has been because of outcry and that's why

the rolling it back that's the snp rolling it back that's why getting this review why we're getting this review now of now into the accommodation of trans but would have trans prisoners but would have happened character happened if this character didn't an obvious didn't look like such an obvious psychopath tattoo psychopath with a big tattoo down neck and a shaved head down his neck and a shaved head . know, it had been . you know, if it had been anyone else, if it's someone who maybe passed the opposite sex, would bother would they have actually bother anything? i don't know. and you can see where abuse could happen on sort of scale where it's on this sort of scale where it's a of sort of a lot more sort of sort of insidious. yeah it be insidious. yeah and it could be something that have something that could have supped something that could have slipped a lot more slipped through quite a lot more easily it wasn't, as you easily if it wasn't, as you said. but did you think the snp this could lose the snp all their of their base their sort of their voter base to care as well. their voter base just cares about independence. independence is this this panacea and this this magical panacea and they how many you they don't how many people, you know, die in prisons or whatever, you know , people whatever, you know, people literally dying from literally are dying from from from drug drug abuse, from poor health care, from from everyone in scotland. so they don't care about some people get in about some people get given in prison ideological prison surely as an ideological this is surely the end for sturgeon. mean, she can't go sturgeon. i mean, she can't go back country. oh no, back from this country. oh no, i mean, sturgeon, whole mean, sturgeon, her whole life hasn't if she's a man

hasn't been sure if she's a man or a woman. so this is just and this is just more of the same. and i've got to say, love, brazen people oh, these brazen people like, oh, these these vulnerable. these women are so vulnerable. are joking? this is a are you joking? this is a women's prison in scotland. these are least vulnerable these are the least vulnerable women in society. true liberation probably been women in society. true libe most probably been women in society. true libemost p|woman been women in society. true libemost p|woman inen women in society. true libemost p|woman in that the most feminine woman in that prison. enough. prison. okay, so enough. enough scotland leo kearse scotland bashing from leo kearse . i i do think nicola . but i do. i do think nicola sturgeon's short because sturgeon's is very short because she's humiliated on, she's she's been humiliated on, she's had to roll it back, got to make the that yes there are the admission that yes there are differences between and differences between men and women. out and said women. she can come out and said it she she's said she it but she but she's said she has has basically said it. has she has basically said it. and think a warning to and i think it's a warning to care. well, as starmer care. well, as keir starmer because he needs to come because i think he needs to come strongly this because strongly on this because anywhere twitter, anywhere outside of twitter, people on the left have these conversations. they really conversations. they have really rational where rational conversations where they're saying we want to protect but this protect trans rights, but this is we're not is clearly insane. we're not able say in a public forum able to say it in a public forum because we're scared. and like, if comes, doesn't see if keir comes, kate doesn't see that isn't receptive to that and isn't receptive to that, you lose. absolutely okay, well, that . well, that's enough for that. for being. we've got for the time being. we've got to have after the have a break now. after the break, will be discussing break, we will be discussing whether should

whether nadhim zahawi should have a criticise the press after he from the government he sacked from the government earlier see you in 3 earlier today. see you in 3 minutes .

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew doyle . nation with me andrew doyle. let's get some questions from our beautiful audience. first question is from andrea. where's hello, andrew. i am the eu bring in legislation that would restrict free speech on twitter . okay. so this is following a comment from vera jourova, who's a official at the european. and georgieva said that they are at the eu effectively all protect us of freedom of speech. that's what she said. but and there's always a but isn't that she said that twitter will face sanctions if it allows illegal content online. but i'm wondering what she that why is she means by that and why is there much attention over there so much attention over twitter took

twitter since elon musk took over? know, from over? because, you know, from what see, nothing's really what i can see, nothing's really changed just let accounts changed people just let accounts back on the no rules in the past . and so there's more free speech and. well, what's the issue here? why are they so upset about the eu? yeah, i don't know. she said it from davos as well. you know, essentially the death star and then pontificating sort essentially the death star and theyou»ntificating sort essentially the death star and theyou know, ting sort essentially the death star and theyou know, humanitariant essentially the death star and theyou know, humanitarian stuff of, you know, humanitarian stuff from the i said, is a from the star, as i said, is a little odd. i don't little bit odd. yeah, i don't really understand the all the matt files are matt taibbi files that are coming quite about coming out quite sinister about the way twitter is being the way that twitter is being or was censoring opinions was censoring certain opinions and yeah. and and amplifying others. yeah. and it's you want it's not what you want in a pubuc it's not what you want in a public forum. twitter should be a place for people to actually. it hasn't been really from the start, place where people start, but a place where people can have debate and it can actually have debate and it happens the left the happens on the left and the right santos is trying to right to santos now is trying to ban critical race theory. ban ban critical race theory. and spoken your and you've spoken about your criticism theory, criticism of critical theory, which healthy. and which is good and healthy. and there debate around that. there be a debate around that. but something also but banning something is also really the right. really problematic on the right. shouldn't side. shouldn't happen on either side. so and everyone's so getting it and everyone's kind of coming out, but we need to a place for that, for to have a place for that, for open discussion. you shouldn't

be. now then, be. i mean, every now and then, every of weeks, get every couple of weeks, i get a message from friend of mine message from a friend of mine who was once booted off twitter, nothing. say, i'm back. and nothing. say, oh, i'm back. and i'm it feels like i'm like, oh, it feels like twitter healing. yeah. so twitter is healing. no yeah. so do really the do we really need the eu stepping and saying we are stepping in and saying we are going to clamp down on freedom of speech was about no. of speech was all about no. i mean, very dangerous. when governments and political parties freedom parties get involved in freedom of policing of speech and policing public debate allowed to be debate and what's allowed to be said reasons when we said for obvious reasons when we see see it in see it in china, we see it in russia and also, i mean, russia and have also, i mean, the of saying it is for the way of saying it is for safety is because of illegal content on twitter mean the most dangerous illegal content on twitter twitter, twitter was child and. twitter, before over, had before musk took over, had completely the ball and completely dropped the ball and closed child closed down the child department. a department. that wasn't a department produce child. i understand looking understand what you mean looking for, stopped for, but they completely stopped cutting and chopping cutting it down and chopping down musk came in and down and. and musk came in and re restarted department. yeah. so musk is actually doing the right yeah. what we've right thing. yeah. what we've seen lot traffickers seen lot of child traffickers having their nuked. i having their accounts nuked. i don't a problem which don't have a problem with which is know, ensuring is a thing, you know, ensuring safety is ensuring safety for children and the safety they talk about and. when they talk

about illegal, they mean under the legislation they're the new legislation that they're bringing like the online safety countries like the online safety bill this country, which will bill in this country, which will make anything make pretty much anything that they yeah pretty they want illegal. yeah pretty dodgy. anyway, we're going to move question is move on to another question is from where's john? hello from john. where's john? hello good evening from today's was needham's zahawi right to blame the press after he was sacked . the press after he was sacked. okay yes this is you're the pulse, john. this is a brand new this is, of course, rishi sunak confirmed this morning he sacked nadhim zahawi . it was the nadhim zahawi. it was the conservative party chairman . and conservative party chairman. and there's been this investigation. opposition to zahawi tax affairs. that he's affairs. it's found that he's committed serious breach of committed a serious breach of the code, which they the ministerial code, which they probably have worked out a probably could have worked out a couple ago if they did couple of weeks ago if they did bother to but anyway, bother to look. but anyway, zahawi letter to the zahawi has written letter to the prime which included zahawi has written letter to the prime i'm which included zahawi has written letter to the prime i'm goingh included zahawi has written letter to the prime i'm going to 1cluded zahawi has written letter to the prime i'm going to quoted zahawi has written letter to the prime i'm going to quote this comment. i'm going to quote this to you. i'm concerned about the conduct of some of fourth conduct of some of the fourth estate recent weeks and estate in recent weeks and a week a member parliament week when a member of parliament was i fail was physically assaulted. i fail to how headline this to see how one headline on this issue, news tightens issue, the news tightens reflects legitimate scrutiny of pubuc reflects legitimate scrutiny of public he's not. he's public officials. he's not. he's not good at metaphors. he's not

familiar with that is. no familiar with all that is. no he's not. he's not good at filling in his tax return. we don't know why he paid 5 million. he's paid. yeah. yeah you think you know, you should have good accountant seeing have some good accountant seeing as was head of the hmrc as he was the head of the hmrc which chancellor the which the chancellor of the exchequer be. i mean when he's, when he's criticising fourth estate behaved they estate for how they behaved they were behaving exactly how the fourth estate should behave , the fourth estate should behave, the best they were finding best situation they were finding , you know, examples of malfeasance and the very highest offices of government and i think the fourth estate aren't behaving as they should behave when they publish photos of, you know , whoever is jordan and know, whoever is jordan and topless a party. this is, you know, when the they're uncovering not the gutter press but when they're actually holding people account this holding people to account this is they should be is exactly what they should be doing. is amazing doing. this is amazing journalism, but he's not happy it can't why, you know it i can't think why, you know tell reports my tax tell you reports on my tax avoidance unbelievable it avoidance unbelievable isn't it . and he's given his thoughts and he's telling this can and he's telling this they can so fire him as well. so long to fire him as well. yeah his wife being well was a non—dom. right. yeah. but

non—dom. that's right. yeah. but there all controversy there was all that controversy last that but you'd last year about that but you'd think he'd want to get a hold. he could have. he said he wanted to the book. that to do things by the book. that was the whole point. he could have. he could have have. i mean, he could have resolved of weeks resolved this a couple of weeks ago. a long, ago. he's had a long, embarrassing well, yes, but it is isn't it's is embarrassing, isn't it? it's you know, we've got the you know, and we've got the partygate coming up partygate commission coming up in weeks time that's going in a few weeks time that's going to dredge that up again. i to dredge all that up again. i mean desperate are over mean desperate tories are over aren't perhaps he aren't they. yeah. perhaps he could tax plans could release his tax plans online. it's a different form online. so it's a different form of levelling up. yeah. tax avoidance people. do think avoidance people. do you think the possibly come the tories can possibly come back they can't, back at. i mean it's they can't, can possibly if the, can they possibly could if the, if boris back and cut if the got boris back and cut some taxes and behave like a conservative party. i think after you know 12 years of a of after you know 12 years of a of a party called the a labour party called the conservative party if a conservative party. if we had a conservative party. if we had a conservative party that were called the conservative party , called the conservative party, we happy. it's not we might be happy. it's not going happen. even going to happen. we haven't even got democrat party got a liberal democrat party that liberal that behaves like liberal democrats. we are not democrats. so now we are not going to get it back. on to the question from lyle where is lyle? hi, andrew . is gay? lyle? hi, andrew. is being gay? has become a sin now? is so

has i become a sin now? is so being gay sinful ? leo i think being gay sinful? leo i think there's some context to so basically the pope , he made basically the pope, he made these comments last week about how while he was actually making a liberal point, he was saying that homosexuality should not be criminalised . but he did say, criminalised. but he did say, but it is a sin and now we so clarified this week by saying yeah it's definition and the thing is i'm not troubled by either because the catholic church is part of the belief system. is that all sexual activity outside of wedlock is sinful, right. so if he said it wasn't a sin that we wish they'd be like to be saying that straight people can have adultery, that's fine. but gay people. yeah, he's saying it's not a crime. just really, not a crime. it's just really, really which is, really naughty, which is, i think, sexy as much more think, more sexy as much more sexual, improved was. i sexual, improved as it was. i think there'll be a huge drop off in gay behaviour globally . off in gay behaviour globally. that's almost certainly right. yeah i think in this, yeah. in some organisations don't want to be, you know, updating themselves with the latest pride

flag month catholic flag month in the catholic church as one of these organisations you want you know a abrahamic i don't even know what that means but you know it's an old religion to be a bit a bit out of touch with modern times because it's an old religion, you know, that used and not knowing what it means was a right can you work it out, use it correctly. yeah yeah. abrahamic religions, the three major religions descended from abraham . right. clues in the abraham. right. clues in the name. no idea who abraham is. is there anything they disapprove of anymore? catholic church of anymore? the catholic church and church. england. they're and the church. england. they're sort church of sort of. well, the church of england totally sort of england does totally sort of abandoned guidebook abandoned that guidebook completely. i should completely. yeah i should actually say i've got a quote here from the pope. the pope wrote when said is a sin, i wrote when i said it is a sin, i was simply referring moral was simply referring to moral teaching, says that every teaching, which says that every sexual act outside of marriage is a i think it seems fair is a sin. i think it seems fair enough me, but appeal of the enough to me, but appeal of the catholic is it's old catholic church is that it's old fashioned. are fashioned. yeah. and there are loads catholics there. loads of gay catholics there. fine with that. and religion isn't supposed to sort of make sense particularly nice, sense or be particularly nice,

right? okay, we've got right? so yeah. okay, we've got time. think one time. i think for one more question section, question in this section, this is rick where's rick? is from rick where's rick? hello, rick. hello. was alan coming hand back his coming right to hand back his obe coming. he is the obe alan coming. so he is the actor. was in the high life actor. he was in the high life that scottish sitcom i think. yeah, i, i rode high road. it wasn't something to do with being high. it was set in a plane and got an obe 14 years ago and he's returned it, sent it back , he says, but he found it back, he says, but he found out in the interim period that the british empire wasn't very nice . he found out . the british empire wasn't very nice . he found out. he the british empire wasn't very nice . he found out . he found out nice. he found out. he found out there was a bit of an killing of indigenous peoples. yeah, that's so. and scottish and scottish. how did he not know before? i don't know. i think. i think the thing that annoys me about this is he accepted the obe in the first place. he knew the british empire was, you know, done whatever. you it produced whatever. you know, it produced antibiotics and spread to margaret and great railways margaret city and great railways around which bad around the world which is bad apparently, know i mean so apparently, you know i mean so sorry brought sorry so sorry we brought civilised nations world, civilised nations to the world, you i mean a terrible you know. i mean a terrible country. is. but you

country. britain is. but you know, he knew all this stuff and he accepted. accepted the obe he accepted. he accepted the obe because he wanted to have a nice out with celebrities hobnobbing with queen and get this with the queen and get this medal himself obe know medal and call himself obe know fdb whatever. and he did that fdb whatever. and so he did that and then like 14 years later he's like, you, somebody who had sex with harvey weinstein to get famous. and then, you know, 14 years later, they want more fame . later. why are . like 14 years later. why are you suggesting that he doesn't really he's saying really mean this and he's saying this get in press. he's this to get in the press. he's like a person . he's virtue like a good person. he's virtue signalling have signalling because he could have just handed back just quietly handed it back instead be like alan cumming, just quietly handed it back inst handingz like alan cumming, just quietly handed it back inst handing byke alan cumming, just quietly handed it back inst handing by myilan cumming, just quietly handed it back inst handing by my obezumming, just quietly handed it back inst handing by my obe i|mming, just quietly handed it back inst handing by my obe i toning, just quietly handed it back inst handing by my obe i to feel, i'm handing by my obe i to feel person. what do you make of that cynical response? maybe he should just give it someone should just give it to someone who wants it and give who really wants it and give beckham one. you beckham a second one. would you take obe. i'd take two. so take an obe. i'd take two. so all can if you obi—wan all you can if you obi—wan kenobi. yeah i don't think i'm going to get offered one to be honest for anyone. a bit depressing. but look, after the break, i'm free speech nation. i'm going to be speaking to the maths teacher who was sacked for not using student preferred

not using a student preferred pronouns minutes .

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation later in the show, i'm going to be turning agony. uncle the help of my panel leo kearse and heydon prowse i'm going to help to deal with your help you to deal with your unfiltered dilemmas. so please do us at gb views is at do email us at gb views is at gbnews.uk and we will do our best to answer all of your problems back in september, i spoke teacher kevin lister , spoke to teacher kevin lister, who had been sacked after he refused to a student's refused to use a student's preferred pronouns . kevin had preferred pronouns. kevin had taught for 18 years before taught maths for 18 years before he was dismissed . gross he was dismissed. gross misconduct biologically female student asked to be referred to by preferred male name and he him pronouns. but the teacher said he to speak to the 17 year old's parents first. kevin is taking college to an employment

tribunal and he joins me now. kevin, mr. kevin understood the background to what happened your case. can you just give us a bit more about that? what actually happened? you so i'd raised two safeguarding concerns. one was about student who wanted to about my student who wanted to transition . i asked if we had transition. i asked if we had parental consent, if she was making an informed decision and if there's a risk that she would self medicate with online easily available cross—sex hormones yes. and the college and college response within three days was to say that they would contact the parents they did not want to out the student and they also told the student how to go about changing her name on the college system. right the second safeguarding concern i raised followed a transgender training program and it related to teachers in the college who are basically trans activists and who had claimed in the presentation in the training course that they had been encouraging and directing students to transition. so this

is a problem , is that my is a problem, is that my understanding is that from the age of 16 up people have the right to whatever they want. they are considered medically competent by law and don't need consent from parents. so what does that mean exactly? yes so medically comp is what medics do. i'm a teacher teaches teach and so if someone wants to medical treatment, then yes , medical treatment, then yes, then then over 16, then a person can then move to various types of medical consent. yes. if a patient into a hospital with appendicitis for example, and the patient says, i don't want you to operate on me, the doctor goes, operate anyway because it will kill them to. consent is a very, very difficult thing to actually define you as as an 18 year old up to the age of 18, you consent, for example, to a tattoo because a tattoo is not consid had to be a medical treatment in the same way that young person up to the age of 18 should not be able to consent to transitioning because it's just

beyond what. but are you on a different question? i mean, by law can consent to that. law they can consent to that. that's the thing. the law is not at all clear. isn't there an issue here about issue here really about compelled you're compelled speech mean you're deaung compelled speech mean you're dealing teachers being dealing with teachers being asked to pronoun that don't asked to use pronoun that don't match biological sex. and of course, of use pronouns course, most of us use pronouns according biological, not according to biological, not according to biological, not according to biological, not according to gender identity. so for a teacher , member of for you as a teacher, member of staff be told, you have staff to be told, yes, you have to that name, these pronouns to use that name, these pronouns , about free , isn't it really about free speech? exactly. it's two things. it's free speech is compelled speech. and it's also student safety as well. and that was it was a student safety angle was approaching angle that i was approaching this from raise this from. yes. i raise a safeguarding , you know, the safeguarding, you know, the initial training of the training that we get every couple of years is if you think there is a concern you have reasonable concern that you have reasonable to is a risk, to believe that there is a risk, then raise safeguarding then you raise a safeguarding concern. the evidence is if concern. now the evidence is if you transition the outcome is likely to be bad. there is no evidence that that transitioning is something that will enhance person's life. the consequences are invariably life limiting and

life shortening. it's inherently a safeguarding issue and hence i, i raise safeguarding on the bafis i, i raise safeguarding on the basis of that. is there also an issue of professional? professional in terms of if teachers are being to lie to parents that cause a problem? i mean, i can give a personal anecdote. a teacher friend of mine recently told me that a had transitioned and the school had told him to use the biological birth name on school reports back parents but in the class to use name that the student wanted to you were you are asking students teachers to and that does cause all sorts of problems. it's completely unethical yeah yeah. and that's effectively the position that the college wanted me to step into. and how widespread do you think this is it's all over the place, the college. how the gender reassignment procedure which basically in a kind of convoluted way in the back of an appendix gave is an instruction for force for teachers to follow. and from what i understand with other teachers in the in the college they are

still battling against this this the same problem. so what your relationship with the student like i mean must have found like i mean you must have found a to explain why didn't a way to explain why you didn't want the term that would want to use the term that would be didn't . i want to use the term that would be didn't. i had one be asked if i didn't. i had one discussion with the student at the end of the class at related to her entry into a female competition female maths competition. and i said, so you need to be really careful about this it's potentially a high risk that you are taking to make sure that you are fully informed of the risks and you're not getting pushed into it by anybody else. i was the only conversation i had with the student she went away from that and then entered the competition subsequently. so my interpretation of her action was that she was then started to question the merits of her decision to transition. so do you think there is a broadly affirmative approach to students who say that they are of the opposite sex or non—binary or whatever and that there isn't

really much common station going on that could support a chance to say it is completely affirmative. so the one thing that i said , which was, you that i said, which was, you know, make sure you understand the on the risk and you're not getting pushed into this by anybody else was then taken by the college as me having an age inappropriate conversation with the student and i was not being neutral in my discussions with her. meanwhile throughout the college as the lgb t club, there's the health and sex education is all pro trans. there's a socially discover that there's a transgender support group in the college as as but i can understand the need for if a child is struggling with gender dysphoria might have to be referred to a professional p p paediatric clinic then surely those facilities ought to be place for that person . not that place for that person. not that would be that be true, but would suspect that we don't have professor and paediatric

clinicians , the transgender clinicians, the transgender support club, who would have groups or members of similar groups or members of similar groups to mermaids and so forth. so when they have transgender support club in the college, it would be giving a bias that's positive view . interestingly, positive view. interestingly, the college , a gender transit the college, a gender transit action plan , a gender transition action plan, a gender transition policy rather is up on the college's website been taken down this this friday. but that policy she said that we had to celebrate it use the word celebrate it use the word celebrate decision to transition and that staff had to be positive it and so forth and at the back has all the links to all the various transgender support groups. so there is nothing in in the colleges transgender reassignment policy or the gender reassignment policy that gives option for the balance of view. so the problem here is that there is an ideological position which is held by a minority of the population which which is being presented within schools as though there is a consensus on

this yeah. yeah. this issue. exactly. yeah. yeah. and means there is no and that means there is no discussion and there's no discussion and there's no discussion questioning discussion and any questioning of up in the situation of this ends up in the situation that i found myself in. and would you say this is because of the influence of groups such as mermaids and stonewall and their sort stranglehold on the sort of stranglehold on the education? yeah. education? i think so, yeah. i think more fundamentally, what i've think more fundamentally, what pve had think more fundamentally, what i've had major i've realised have had major documents recently. one was from the dft and the result of a whistleblowing and a review . whistleblowing and a review. after my complaints went to the dft . the other was from swindon dft. the other was from swindon borough council, dft. the other was from swindon borough council , from the borough council, from the safeguarding department . both of safeguarding department. both of them have supported the transgender idea ology and the transgender idea ology and the transgender in the college . so transgender in the college. so as well as that, the groups like and stonewall and so forth drop in this the college. i think there's another more pernicious dynamic that's at play that we really haven't properly explored and that is the regulator and authorities are actually becoming not just captured by the trans movement but being

active collaborators for the trans industry . so where does trans industry. so where does this leave your case at the moment? what's next? so the papers have been submitted to the employment tribunal. they've served on the college the college has to respond by things to 15th of february. my first preliminary hearing with a judge is in june. the college has offered a settlement and this is new college twins. new college swindon, correct? yeah this is a new college. swindon offered a settlement subject , a settlement subject, a confidentiality agreement , settlement subject, a confidentiality agreement, but i've rejected that largely because what i've seen of the dft was seen on swindon borough council is that they are not capable of doing a proper investigation . the debate really investigation. the debate really needs to be properly aired, so i really don't want to accept any confidentiality agreement . okay. confidentiality agreement. okay. well, minister, thanks very much for joining us and explaining forjoining us and explaining the things that are happening and trying well after the break. i'm pretty nice and i'm to be

speaking to the woman who says there's a real risk that companies are about to become more authoritarian, don't away .

oh welcome back to free speech. nice. and is there a risk that are going to become more authoritarian . it's a question authoritarian. it's a question that my next guest tackled and she thinks the answer is yes. a tory peer claimed last week that companies should have a legal obugafion companies should have a legal obligation to support the health of their staff. but fiona bouma worried that that would lead to firms pushing employees lead firms pushing employees to lead a healthier life. she says managers would feel able to ask all sorts of questions from a person's drinking and how person's drinking habits and how much their much they exercise to their covid vaccination status and the like to say. fiona beaumont joins me because that's becoming employer. so can give us some

examples of the kind of thing that you're talking about here where employers are effectively intervening and trying to find out too much about their staff. yeah, absolutely. so you've got sainsbury sainsbury's boast that they've created wellbeing champions and you think , yeah, champions and you think, yeah, that's, that's all sounds, sounds . then that's, that's all sounds, sounds. then you look at that's, that's all sounds, sounds . then you look at the sounds. then you look at the remit , these people and their remit, these people and their remit, these people and their remit nutrition, sleep and exercise of their colleagues. so effectively they're going to be the biscuit police. know we had that woman involved banning cake last week . these people are last week. these people are going to be going around saying oh, you're looking a bit pokey today. should you really be having those biscuits? met. having those biscuits? you met. you mentioned that the food standards they've standards agency, they've represented that represented there said that employers should ban cake in the office . that cake is equivalent office. that cake is equivalent to passive smoking . yeah, i mean to passive smoking. yeah, i mean , but i suppose they're just looking out for people's, aren't they. well well that's what they claim . but i mean the reality is claim. but i mean the reality is we used to think that when got

to 18 you, you were able to make your own decisions about how much ate fond of cream cakes or packets of hobnobs. well, that was your affair and you had the right in a free society to make those decisions and maybe they were bad for you, but that was your choice. now the public health tyrants and they are tyrants i've got complete different way of running society which is that we are to encompass and to we will to make this decisions even as adults. so we have to get your employer in to remove these temptations and to make you thinner and happier because you know that. because are too weak willed as an adult to do that. how could they possibly monitor sleep, though? i mean, you mentioned sleep. what do they expect? you fill out a chart. well, one way or device. you wonder. and or device. well, you wonder. and that's and that's that's the thing. and that's that's the thing. and that's what worries worries me. i a of this is absurd. i mean a lot of this is absurd. but you say your like to but once you say your like to line managers , you have line managers, you have a responsibility for your

employees health. now what are you going to do as a line manager? you're going to think, well, i've got to do something it. and what are going do? it. and what are going to do? well, going to say, well, they're going to say, oh, well, know, looking well, you know, you're looking a bit tired. what can we do? let's have a little chat about it. and i are performance reviews i bet are performance reviews going on now ? perhaps not with going on now? perhaps not with sleep, but performing reviews where people are saying , yeah, where people are saying, yeah, you, you, you perhaps ought to think about going to the going to the gym or going to the mindfulness class. i i suppose, you know, a lot of people will well criticise you and say, but this is a slippery slope fallacy. you know, these aren't saying we're going you saying we're going to ban you eating cake or by force you to go on a 20 mile run or whatever. well they're doing is they're just offering good advice . that just offering good advice. that would argument. i think would be the argument. i think that would be the argument. but, you it's it is slippery you know, it's it is a slippery because see it already because you can see it already another i was pwc the another i found was pwc the accountants are very encouraging their employees become vegans.

well, what business is theirs and they're running campaign in their canteen called please please . well if you that with please. well if you that with five year olds you don't what's the rationale behind. i mean why why do they want people to be vegan? well, they say it's healthier and obviously it's better for the environment. so you've got they're claiming that it's change it's all the climate change stuff well okay. but is it stuff as well. okay. but is it healthy to the know vegan. healthy to the know any vegan. very precisely. precisely. very well precisely. precisely. i mean that's exactly it. and this is the trouble the vast setting these a lot of these standards are just nonsense because they're interfere interfere and yeah, maybe they're not going to be completely authoritative about him. but we saw with covid. people had their sick pay docked . they hadn't had covid vaccinations in some companies. so some companies going to take it that far? not all of them. and hopefully people will rise up against it. some will. and there's also the potential for shaming. i mean, if you've got these these as you mention in sainsbury's, of sainsbury's, actual sort of initiative going on

initiative that are going on where people almost terms where people are almost in terms of healthy they are, then of how healthy they are, then there's potential for people there's the potential for people to feel pressured or shamed into having type of having a certain type of lifestyle. well exactly. this, this is it. it's all corporate conformity now, you know, increasingly corporate . i'm increasingly corporate. i'm worried about what you think your views on on things on precisely this. they're going to be suggesting that this is a better way to live and try and shame people because that's what the public health people believe . this is part of a broader conversation. i think about the relationship between the employer and the employee because of course, you have a lot corporations who are lot of corporations who are putting out very overtly political statements these days saying we support this movement or movement , saying we support this movement or movement, but saying we support this movement or movement , but where does or that movement, but where does that employer who ? that leave the employer who? disagree. rather, that leave the employer who? disa disagrees rather, that leave the employer who? disa disagrees with rather, that leave the employer who? disa disagrees with those rather, who disagrees with those particular views? yeah and that's what really worries me . that's what really worries me. there is a set of views now that you're supposed to hold if you work in a big and you know,

there's a fundamental contrary action. the i work for a lot of corporate companies and. right. corporate guff and they're full of stuff about oh we need disrupt has we need diverse minds . and that's true actually minds. and that's true actually innovation in corporates does come from people who think different . and yet at the same different. and yet at the same time , the whole dive versity, time, the whole dive versity, this whole health wellbeing is all really narrowly focussed on the current orthodoxy on climate , on diversity , on what counts , on diversity, on what counts as a healthy and so you, you know, you used to go to work, they paid you to do it. you did best. hopefully you enjoyed it , best. hopefully you enjoyed it, but you went home and what you did was none of your employees business. yes. and it should remain so, of course. what do what advice you give just before we finish? because i want to know what you think in terms of

that because i know that pressure, because i know i'm teacher, still in i'm a teacher, i'm still in contact. lots teachers who contact. lots of teachers who say sit through these say have to sit through these unconscious sessions. i want to say this is a load of say this is all a load of rubbish, but i didn't because if i do i'm not going to get i do that, i'm not going to get promoted when the promotion comes up by my career, prospects are going be limited. so on a are going to be limited. so on a practical how can practical level, how can employees displeasure employees make their displeasure known jeopardising their known without jeopardising their own think it's really own career? i think it's really difficult and you know, sadly, i think there isn't much room for the contrary people anymore in corporate life, but i think you've got to be brave. we've all to be brave. and it's really because the costs are high. but i think you do have to say, hang on a minute. and you have to make fun of it, make fun of the biscuit bring in a biscuit police, bring in a packet and scoff them packet of notes and scoff them in front of the wellbeing champion. just just try and make fun of it because it's so ridiculous hopeful . the ridiculous and hopeful. the sheer eccentric city and contrarian s of certainly british workers might might prevail and they might roll back eventually. so there you have it

. eat as much cake at work as possible. absolute advice. okay, fiona volmer, thank you very much for joining fiona volmer, thank you very much forjoining . us so it's now much forjoining. us so it's now time for a break, but please go away because there's lots to come between and 9:00. there's more . the transgender prisoners, more. the transgender prisoners, roe and scotland with fresh developments on that story. just in the last few hours . and we'll in the last few hours. and we'll find out more about the oppression of women in afghanistan , the taliban. i'm afghanistan, the taliban. i'm also going to speaking to my panel and asking them if they would trust a barrister from the north england. you won't want north of england. you won't want to miss that. so in a few minutes.

monday, thursday on gb news news. it's bev turner today from 10 am. we're going to be here for you, itv news, family to keep you up to date, but also make you smile . the guy went make you smile. the guy went from puberty to adultery . and i

from puberty to adultery. and i can't wait to bring you a few of my own opinion. i have no time for cultural. we'll engage in passionate but always polite debate with thoughts and opinions at. the centre only on gb news the people's britain's news . news. channel there's plenty more still to come . free speech nation this come. free speech nation this evening. but let's get a news update first from ray addison . update first from ray addison. thanks. here's the latest from the gb newsroom, the labour party says rishi sunak still has questions to answer following sacking of nadhim zahawi , the sacking of nadhim zahawi, the prime minister made the decision after an ethics inquiry found the party chairman had committed a serious breach of the ministerial code. mr. zahawi has

been facing questions over his tax affairs after admitting that paid a penalty to hmrc for an error. chair of the labour party anneliese dodds says . she's anneliese dodds says. she's written to rishi. what did he know and when about that enormous settlement that nadhim zahawi was negotiated with hmrc and the huge penalty that he had to pay pointed rishi sunak's say in parliament that all questions had been answered about this affair on why on earth is the prime minister holding up this rogue's gallery of conservative ministers with others who obviously have broken security rules, who are subject to allegations of very serious bullying ? and yet the prime bullying? and yet the prime minister seems too weak to act against no newly convicted transgender person with a history of violence against women will be placed in female prisons in scotland . the prisons in scotland. the temporary measure aims to ensure safety of inmates, while the

management trans prisoners is examined . the decision comes examined. the decision comes ahead of an urgent review into lessons learned by the case of convicted double rapist isla bryson , who was originally sent bryson, who was originally sent to a women's prison . 16 year old to a women's prison. 16 year old boy has been charged the murder of a teenage girl in hexham . 15 of a teenage girl in hexham. 15 year old holly newton was stabbed in the priest area of the town on friday. she died in hospital . the 16 year old boy hospital. the 16 year old boy was also injured. the accused who cannot be named for legal reasons, has also been charged with attempted . the government with attempted. the government will publish an urgent emergency care plan tomorrow to try to pressures on the nhs . it comes pressures on the nhs. it comes as the health department announced plans to build virtual beds caring for tens of thousands of elderly and vulnerable people their own homes. the health secretary says shifting care away hospitals will help to reduce times. however, shadow health secretary wes streeting is accusing the

government of sticking politics. it seems we have gone from 14 new hospitals to hospitals at home. think a lot of people will say, well , how will i be able to say, well, how will i be able to be treated in my own home if the government's half the number of nurses are essential to nurses who are essential to provide support in the community. i think this is a government run out of steam run , out of ideas and able to deal with the fundamental problems of the nhs. and so the resorting sticking plasters and members of britain's hindu and indian communities been protesting at bbc buildings across the country over a documentary on narendra modi . they on bbc. over a documentary on narendra modi . they on bbc . this is what modi. they on bbc. this is what people gathered in london, newcastle , birmingham in newcastle, birmingham in response to the programme which examines claims over the indian prime minister's role in riots in 2002. in which thousands of muslims died . protesters calling

muslims died. protesters calling for a boycott of the bbc and it to be defunded were on tv , to be defunded were on tv, onune to be defunded were on tv, online and on dab+ radio . this online and on dab+ radio. this is gb news. back now to speech nafion is gb news. back now to speech nation . nation. welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. now to news that broke just a few hours ago. no newly convicted transgender with a history of violence against women will placed in female prisons in scotland . the scottish prisons scotland. the scottish prisons service is carrying out what it's called an urgent review of the rules. it comes after scotland's first minister, nicholas sturgeon, was widely criticised following a major row over two trans prisoners. first. bryson was in cornton vale. bryson was in cornton vale. bryson to be sentenced after being convicted of raping two women before changing gender identity . bryson, who used to be identity. bryson, who used to be called adam graham and then

claimed to be transitioning shortly before the trial on thursday. bryson was moved to a men's prison. it's now emerged a second male prisoner has had to move to a has had their move to a women's prison. a just tiffany scott used to be known as andrew burns stalked a 13 year old girl and has since attacked female staff while being held in a men's prison. so to discuss this situation, i'm now by kate coleman, who is the director of keep prisons single sex. kate, thank is joining us. so i want to first ask for your response to first ask for your response to this news that there will be review on the accommodation of transgender prisoners in scotland . well, i think there's scotland. well, i think there's two things to be said about this . firstly if this is genuine and if this is not wholly politically motivated, i think too little too late and it's wholly inadequate. the scottish pfison wholly inadequate. the scottish prison service have been unquote undertaking policy review since

2008. and we are 2023. and suddenly it's time for an urgent review and this temporary measure is still wholly inadequate. it will exclude male . and i think we need to be quite careful. we're not we're not talking about trying to find out who is genuinely transgender and who's a male faker. we're talking about male prisoners. yes, it is being male. that is the risk and it is being male that counts and needs to see you excluded from the female state. no questions. excluded from the female state. no questions . a lot of people no questions. a lot of people have argued that what this really is a fact . nicholas really is a fact. nicholas sturgeon this week has said it's a cloak, bigotry. people who are worried about the preservation of single sex prisons, it's just because they hate people. well, i mean, we were all racist, homophobic misogyny , quite homophobic misogyny, quite anti—semitic , whatever. well, anti—semitic, whatever. well, according to nancy kelly, we're anti—semitic. so you know, everything is transphobic , everything is transphobic, everything is transphobic, everything is transphobic, everything is bigoted . so those

everything is bigoted. so those me those words , if they ever had me those words, if they ever had any meaning that meaning is long since departed . but everyone since departed. but everyone understands this basic point when it comes to safeguarding. you're not smearing the entire demographic who is subject to checks. you're saying a minority within that demographic. in this case, men will commit acts of violence against women? well, exactly. i mean , and that is the exactly. i mean, and that is the principle of safeguarding. the principle of safeguarding. the principle of safeguarding is don't trust people. the principle of safeguarding is the questions and don't believe somebody when they say, oh, it's okay, i'm fine, i'm alright. i don't excluded. it doesn't matter what basis you decide . matter what basis you decide. set up special rules to exclude somebody from the normal principles of safeguarding. yes. don't do that because that is not safeguarding. by how long has scotland been doing this? how long of i mean housing prisoners according to gender identity? sometimes not even with well, with the glc. right. well, i mean, we have to get away mean, again, we have to get away from the false notion that having glc provides any kind

having a glc provides any kind of safeguard because it doesn't . but terms of how long this . but in terms of how long this has been going on for when we talk the united kingdom as a whole all male prisoners have been housed in the female estate since at least the early 1980s. the criteria the male prisoner has had to fulfil in order to get that transition or that that or that initial allocation to the female estate . those have the female estate. those have changed over the years but this is not a new phenomenon by by any means . when we look at any means. when we look at scotland in particular, we that there was a deliberate drive to get this subgroup of male prisoners into the female state. and james morton , who's the then and james morton, who's the then director , scottish trans director, scottish trans alliance , who actually wrote the alliance, who actually wrote the current scottish prison service on transgender prisoners. it shows up in the matter date . so shows up in the matter date. so it's actually quite shocking .

it's actually quite shocking. she she's transgender so i'm going to use sex based pronouns. she's clear that this was a deliberate push because , you deliberate push because, you know, if you can get trans male prisoners accepted into a single sex base , the most challenging sex base, the most challenging of circumstance says then, well, you set a precedent and you can start rolling it out to other services , you know, because services, you know, because quite clearly, you know, nobody cares about women in prison. is that part of the problem that the people just thinking about prisons? i think people don't care enough about, you know , care enough about, you know, like i can understand that in a way , i do care about prisoners . way, i do care about prisoners. but as the old maxim, if you can't do the time, then don't do the crime . you know, women in the crime. you know, women in prison are perceived fallen. women women . it's also a women failed women. it's also a very hidden problem . if you look very hidden problem. if you look at something like sport it's where you've got what was his name year thomas yes. uncle gavin. the weightlifter . it's

gavin. the weightlifter. it's obvious. yes that's on television. it's obvious when you're talking about men , prison you're talking about men, prison with women , very often it's with women, very often it's hidden . these cases that have hidden. these cases that have hit the press, they're the minority the prisoners that i know about in the male prison , know about in the male prison, in the female prison estate , in the female prison estate, it's hidden. you so you can get away almost with. i've that there's this kind of like this this hypothetical example full of, you know some long since transition fully transitioned transition fully transitioned trans who you know the equal treatment which is the guide for judges. treatment which is the guide for judges . they refer to such judges. they refer to such a person as someone who has lived her whole adult life as a wife and mother . you know who's who's and mother. you know who's who's been charged with some very low level non—violent offence. you know, he's well away and graceful . we know we've had graceful. we know we've had example of april , ashleigh, you example of april, ashleigh, you know, tall, willowy, graceful or beautifully dressed . we're

beautifully dressed. we're looking at a hyper vertical policy in is aimed at protecting this almost platonic ideal. whereas the reality that i know of, which is child abusers, murderers , violent criminals who murderers, violent criminals who to transition whilst they're in prison, sometimes a gender recognition certificate whilst they're in prison, retaining their working male genitalia . their working male genitalia. they're stridently hetero sexual and.so they're stridently hetero sexual and. so that is the situation . and. so that is the situation. why are we not having dealing with a sensible discussions about this? because, you know , about this? because, you know, we think all know where we we think we all know where we are for a long time, are now, but for a long time, the was saying, well, there the snp was saying, well, there is just no evidence that men will lie about who they to commit acts predatory act. well will lie about who they to cagain, acts predatory act. well will lie about who they to cagain, icts predatory act. well will lie about who they to cagain, i thinkadatory act. well will lie about who they to cagain, i think we tory act. well will lie about who they to cagain, i think we needct. well will lie about who they to cagain, i think we need to well will lie about who they to cagain, i think we need to stop i again, i think we need to stop thinking about we need to catch the men out in a lie. it doesn't matter who's lying, you know, maybe i really is trans. or maybe i really is trans. or maybe adam is lying . it doesn't

maybe adam is lying. it doesn't matter . maybe adam is lying. it doesn't matter. there's maybe adam is lying. it doesn't matter . there's still maybe adam is lying. it doesn't matter. there's still momentum and isla are still male . and isla are still male. unfortunately, we can easily ascertain sex registered at birth. yes, which doesn't change. and it's that . that's change. and it's that. that's the most salient variable to risk safeguarding offending and the management of offenders, no matter what the snp might like to say. and of course women in prison are particularly vulnerable group a lot of them have been domestic violence. they are a vulnerable group. they are a vulnerable group. they most of them up there they are most of them up there because of an association with a violent or criminal man. because of an association with a violent or criminal man . the violent or criminal man. the majority them are there for low level offender . that's not to level offender. that's not to say at all that you don't get violent women. women who commit sexual against children, women who commit murder. of course, you do. but when you look at the offender profiles again, it is very, very much determined by. sex registered. yes, birth and women know we see these

arguments on twitter and elsewhere. i will have you don't want a trans woman in the toilet with you. just don't use those toilets. go somewhere else. i mean, i think those arguments are wholly unacceptable . but are wholly unacceptable. but women in prison , by definition, women in prison, by definition, obviously have no choice. well, you're in prison , and a male you're in prison, and a male pictures up on your house block tough. we had today a story in the daily record about a former female prisoner who said yes , female prisoner who said yes, she had to have a coffin. i know amanda. right. and i'm that that story certainly reflects the stories that i've been getting women who are in prison at this very moment in england people won't believe it that they won't think i mean her account she was talking about being in the shared shower facilities. yes naked bodies aroused and naked male bodies aroused and really obviously dangerous situation . no protection for situation. no protection for these women, she had the contraceptive coil in because she felt she had no choice. constant it's almost like a second punishment on top of the. exactly. of course it is. it's

second punishment. and you go to imprisonment is to punishment. it's not a place where further torture and punishment occurs, at least not in country. and is it that people wouldn't think this was likely because, you know, when you think of the case of karen white, convicted rapist says that he's female is , moved says that he's female is, moved to a woman's prison and goes on to a woman's prison and goes on to assault female inmates. people think, but that can't be happening, can it? why? it's still now, right? it's still happening now. there was a male prisoner who got a gender recognition certificate having been sentenced to a lengthy sentence for murder, he murdered a man. but so what? you know, he's six foot two. he still got his full appendages and he sexually assaults or has coerced consent or sex. and you shouldn't be having consensual sex in prison, right? shouldn't be having consensual sex in prison, right ? with sex in prison, right? with vulnerable female offender as he then gets on to the next person

and then moved on to the next prison. so years now he's basically been having a jolly old time of at the expense of women prison hopping round the female state and the policy says don't just permit this they facilitate it they facilitate how would it be reach this point. you know, we've had a conservative government for the last 12 years and this is all happened and continue to happen under their watch. so it looks as though whoever you vote for, left or right, this is going to carry on. how did this of ideology with these terrible grammar fixations end up being implemented? and no one did anything about it because it was the of choir careful the decades of choir careful behind the scenes conversations without making any farce, without making any farce, without drawing any attention just to getting everything in place . so now when you start place. so now when you start peeung place. so now when you start peeling back layers, you say, oh, well, this practise is bad. okay, what was behind that ? the okay, what was behind that? the policies bad. what's behind that? oh my god. the previous policy bad. what's behind that?

oh my god, it's legislation. you peeung oh my god, it's legislation. you peeling back the layers and you see just how deep this go. and is it because of interest groups such stonewall who have interest . yes, stonewall. and, you know, the predecessors stonewall . yes, stonewall. and, you know, the predece change. )newall . yes, stonewall. and, you know, the predecechange. beaumont pressed for change. beaumont society going back to the 1970s, 19805. society going back to the 1970s, 1980s. yes, absolutely . and your 1980s. yes, absolutely. and your feeling with scotland is that this is a kind of smokescreen that really s&p would to that really s&p would like to continue with this ideological. oh, absolutely . i mean, they oh, absolutely. i mean, they they are totally committed to this ideology . why that is a this ideology. why that is a separate . but they are separate. but they are completely to this ideology. you only have to witness the passing of the gender recognition reform bill through stages to three. yes. and the stage three debates in hollywood on hollyrood. you know , i attended those and i it know, i attended those and i it was chilling what i consider to be an abuse of parliamentary process quite apart from the wholly egregious counter , just wholly egregious counter, just the structure of what was

happening was chilling and a lesson in how not to do democracy. yes so i don't believe . for one second that believe. for one second that this is either genuine or lasting and i think if it were. well where's all the opposition? where is maggie chapman? where's patrick harvey? where's lorna slater ? where's scottish trans slater? where's scottish trans alliance? where are all of these lobby groups , these interest lobby groups, these interest groups and? the most vocal of msp ? groups and? the most vocal of msp 7 why groups and? the most vocal of msp ? why are they not screaming msp? why are they not screaming and shouting and vulnerable? trans and all of that ? yes, yes. trans and all of that? yes, yes. ireland. and i think that asylum for a very good reason because know that this isn't real. kate we don't have much time. but i want to ask you before we finish, given the egregious nature of this particular bryson case and all now seen case and we've all now seen this, you know, this double rapist who is not just going be moved to a women's prison was being housed a women's prison

already he was . you think already he was. do you think that because of this in the pubuc that because of this in the public outcry things might now actually i think they actually change? i think they have to and i think we have to be very careful to keep this current because what concerns me is people who think that andrew burns and graham i mean andrew burns and graham i mean andrew burns , one of the most burns, one of the most terrifyingly violent prisoners who i have ever read about when i read that he was being transferred my blood run cold, i can't think of a less transfer , can't think of a less transfer, is it people who view these as the exception and not the exception? they are absolutely normal for this population in female , right? well i do hope female, right? well i do hope something can be done about . and something can be done about. and kate, thank you so much for coming to on about this. kate, thank you so much for coming to on about this . and coming to on about this. and after the break, i'm free speech nation. i'm going be talking

about the transgender who now identifies as a baby. i'll be back in 3 minutes. identifies as a baby. i'll be back in 3 minutes . metro .

on mark dolan's night from nine in my big appetite. my verdict on sunak after 100 days in power . plus, has the labour party really changed under keir starmer? we'll ask former labour minister for europe dennis macshane, an ex tory home office minister ann widdecombe my male meets guest, david cameron's former speechwriter and top bofis former speechwriter and top boris johnson aide influenced will tory insider mp danny kruger is nicola sturgeon's political career over and can anyone fix the nhs? it's a big show tonight live from . show tonight live from. nine

welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle . let's get with me andrew doyle. let's get some more questions from our lovely audience. our first question from mary. mary has the bbc been encouraging gambling? has the bbc been encouraging gambling ? well, the bosses at gambling? well, the bosses at the bbc are going to cancel the traditional racing tips on radio four's flagship today programme . and they said that they thought that this slot being in the shape of 46 years has no place on modern radio could encourage. that's right they think should be looking after the listeners . i think the think should be looking after the listeners. i think the bbc already encourage because they encourage you to pay already encourage because they encourage you to pa y £150 on the encourage you to pay £150 on the off chance they might off chance that they might produce worth watching produce something worth watching . so yeah, i mean, 46 years, that's that's tradition why don't they just wait another two years until the bbc is abolished ? is that going to . i hope not. ? is that going to. i hope not. ihope ? is that going to. i hope not. i hope to get the show commission eventually. all right. no, i think. commission eventually. all right. no, i think . does anyone right. no, i think. does anyone listen to the racing? it's like the sort shipping forecast, isn't it? is it not now? nipples a pointless thing . we don't know

a pointless thing. we don't know why there, but they seem why they're there, but they seem to have always existed. i think the shipping girls are having to eat forecast eat them. the shipping forecast is purpose. is is actually has a purpose. is it? it's stop boats crushing it? it's to stop boats crushing and things. and they and things. and i thought they they internet on they don't have internet on boats or only have radios. yeah they. boats or only have radios. yeah they . all right. no, no, it's they. all right. no, no, it's not. it's okay. so let's move on quickly to another question from helen. helen, hello. hello. hello hi. does the uk have a freedom of expression crisis ? so freedom of expression crisis? so this is very interesting because there was a ranking this week by there was a ranking this week by the index on censorship and the uk ranked only in the third tier of , this new index. and it of, this new index. and it basically is really low down on all the various aspects and it was due what is being described as the chilling effect of government policies, policing , government policies, policing, intimidation of journalists in the legal system, all sorts of problems and the thing is, people always say to me, well, there no issue with free there is no issue with free speech in this country, but we've got a government that's pushing a protest bill pushing through a protest bill that you make that basically says if you make a noise, we can shut down

a lot of noise, we can shut down your protest. we've your right to protest. we've gone safety bill. that's gone online safety bill. that's basically saying, oh, yeah, we're give power we're going to give more power to big tech to censor. we do to the big tech to censor. we do have an with free speech have an issue with free speech in country. we haydn? in this country. done we haydn? yeah. odd that the yeah. and it's odd that the police policing stuff. police are policing this stuff. and get a crime and meanwhile, can't get a crime investigated . right. investigated. right. and everybody experience of , everybody has an experience of, something them and something happening to them and they to the police and they go speak to the police and there's just zero interest. your bike. gone. yeah just. bike. it's gone. yeah just. just live accepts it. right. live with it. accepts it. right. move and then we've a move on. and then we've got a government the police to government pushing the police to sort crackdown to sort of crackdown on to free speech not. don't speech protest. it's not. don't you find this weird that it's coming from a government you coming from a government and you know thought they were know it's thought they were meant about free speech. meant to be about free speech. but think they ever but i don't think they ever about what they claim to about freedom what they claim to be. okay yeah, they claim be. yeah. okay yeah, they claim to it them. but to be when it suits them. but nadhim gets out for tax nadhim zahawi gets out for tax avoidance. blames press , avoidance. he blames the press, right? they're really. right? they're not really. exactly. this is exactly. yeah. and this this is a issue and i think a non—partisan issue and i think free speech itself should be a non—partisan you should non—partisan issue. you should be it on the left and be supporting it on the left and right and everywhere in between. but both sides can be but also both sides can be guilty encroaching it.

guilty of encroaching on it. yeah is a terrible issue yeah but it is a terrible issue at the moment. left are have at the moment. the left are have the cultural have the the cultural power and have the power institutions. so power in the institutions. so they're this they're all for this encroachment on free speech because it's serving their scythed. there scythed. right. and it's there are 3300 arrests, i believe, for four social media posts in the uk last year. let's i mean that's way more than in russia andifs that's way more than in russia and it's way more than you get in soviet. it's you know, this is where basically living under a chinese style autocracy, we don't realise it's quite extreme leap, but i would say. there are certainly examples of where i mean you have to monitor this if you get sent to prison in china you get sent to prison in china you won't be sent, you won't be in a in a prison with with a man laughing as woman. so i mean, there are so there's actually beenif there are so there's actually been if there are some improvements in china . okay. improvements in china. okay. we're going to move on to another question now. this is from inna. inna. yes there i'm just a brief one. would you trust a northern barrister would 7 trust a northern barrister would ? i trust a northern barrister. they're very shifty . oh, yeah. they're very shifty. oh, yeah. oh, this is because there was research has been released

research has just been released that found that most people would to be represented that found that most people wo a d to be represented that found that most people wo a barristero be represented that found that most people wo a barrister with represented that found that most people wo a barrister with a�*presented that found that most people wo a barrister with a posh nted that found that most people wo a barrister with a posh voice by a barrister with a posh voice and lawyers from beyond and that lawyers from beyond home counties sound less intelligent and less professional. so do those regional accents you don't want from a barrister is that fair? i kind of kind of get this because it's super interesting. the recent of the rings on amazon prime. very diverse. and prime. yeah very diverse. and finally elves are all finally all the elves are all sorts races, which sorts of different races, which is but the accents, is fantastic. but the accents, all elves are terribly all the elves are terribly portion islington and portion from islington and everyone an all voted everyone who's an all voted brexit. and it's like that . brexit. and it's like that. yeah. and this is, this is the last and the orcs is still the prejudice. all have always prejudice. we all have always cockneys yeah. don't cockneys, right. yeah. i don't think wrote them as think tolkien wrote them as cockneys, the film cockneys, but in the film version they've always, always like how's going. so like that. yeah. how's going. so it's like . what do you think? it's like. what do you think? what do you mean, off their ancestral lands and i mean, do you think there's anything to this. if you had a barrister, if you want someone defending him in court. yeah would you want them to sound posh and educated? yeah, course. and somebody yeah, of course. and somebody is flying i'm on. flying a plane that i'm on. i want them to posh and

want them to sound posh and educated. we can all like pretend we want, you pretend that we want, you know, there's but you there's no class system, but you know, somebody comes over the tannoy or somebody stands up for you court and you says you and court and you know says in country accent or in a in west country accent or a or a birmingham accent we'll be experienced little turbulence. experienced a little turbulence. you're looking be you're going to be looking to be was that from you're going to be reaching that policy? you know, i mean, i'm sure my read on you put yourself down a bit and you're what? someone you're like, what? someone with your you not be your accent, could you not be a star? how dare you say bigot? well, i may go, but scotland built this country and this is the thanks we get. no, i mean, having a scottish accent is fine. sounds a little sounds a little threatening. i mean, like, because if you're in court and you're hearing and your voice over, i think, voice comes over, i think, oh well, know, going to well, you know, you're going to cut up. yeah yeah. cut someone up. yeah yeah. so you the jury . do i see? you bet the jury. do i see? maybe there's something to it. okay, we're going move on now to this question. this is from martin. where's martin? hi alec. should for the rights of should we be for the rights of babies prison? right babies in prison . it's a really important

prison. it's a really important neglected topic, but actually very serious. this is relation to a sum called sophie eastwood transgene , a killer. now transgene, a killer. now identifying a baby was sentenced to life in prison in 2004 after strangling his cellmate now says he's a baby , is saying stuff he's a baby, is saying stuff like prison guards have to hold my hand when i'm being transferred because i'm a baby and i need the extra support needs nappies i come at some point can we just say this has got to stop. yeah i mean, like i before, i would really like to see people in the trans community and people that are fighting for trans rights speak out on things like this and sort of like the hope that the kind of like the hope that the kind of abuse of sort of gender dysphoria, a notions among people who are clearly mentally ill and also dangerous . yeah. ill and also dangerous. yeah. and if people who do genuinely support trans rights came out and out about and spoke out about this nonsense, would nonsense, they would give themselves lot legitimacy themselves a lot more legitimacy and that are and other things that are important about in important to speak about in relation trans rights. but is relation to trans rights. but is part of problem with that, part of the problem with that, hayden, is that stonewall itself

started saying that trans started saying that the trans umbrella not just umbrella incorporates not just people but people with dysphoria but cross—dressers, people with fetishes . so effectively they've fetishes. so effectively they've ianed fetishes. so effectively they've invited this by by by saying thatis invited this by by by saying that is basically trans within umbrella and actually suffering from gender is a really difficult thing to go and it's very painful and difficult and it's the same. and if they it's not the same. and if they but don't pull slightly but if they don't pull slightly and criticise it, then it is only going to be left up to people often do have prejudice against trans people because. they the people willing they are the only people willing to and talk about stuff to stand up and talk about stuff like do you think like this. right. do you think that's hayden has that's right? i think hayden has been because this been trans before because this is this is a genuine baby. this is this is a genuine baby. this is a real baby because they say they're a baby. they're are be slash be . so i don't think you slash be. so i don't think you can see that, you know, lumpy fellow wants to be called a woman as is a woman and then somebody wants to be called a baby. it isn't a baby. what's interesting is the prison service instead just being like you. what? know, are you. what? you know, are transferring , transferring them transferring, transferring them to the wing, the prison service

are taking it seriously . they're are taking it seriously. they're taking it to see that this is somebody they're going to provide nappies and baby to this aduu provide nappies and baby to this adult man who is ? a baby. he's adult man who is? a baby. he's also a murderer, by the way. i'm i'm fine with people doing this, but not with taxes. all right. just do it with your own money, okay?it just do it with your own money, okay? it always comes back to leo in his taxes, doesn't have anyway after the break on free speech nation to speech nation we're going to find about the find out more about the oppression women face in oppression that women face in afghanistan. you in afghanistan. will see you in just time .

welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle . women's with me andrew doyle. women's rights in afghanistan been severely restricted since the taliban took control of the country less than 18 months ago. just this weekend, it's been confirmed that the ministry of higher education has ordered private universities not to

female students to set entrance exams next month . women are exams next month. women are barred from public places such as parks and gyms in many parts of the country, while some aid agencies have pulled out of afghanistan after the taliban banned females from working for non—governmental , permanent non—governmental, permanent asset, was born in afghanistan but left the country when she was three years old and entered the uk as a refugee. she's now a labour councillor and she joins me now. thank you very much for joining state. now you in kabul at the time that the taliban seized control again and you are still in contact a lot of people in afghanistan can you give us some sense of what is happening to women there now. yeah so i was in afghanistan when the taliban came in and i think a lot of people weren't expecting it to be so. yes. but because of that dau a that the united that dau, a deal that the united states signed taliban, states signed with the taliban, a of the contractors who a lot of the contractors who were helping the afghan army pulled and so the of the pulled out. and so the of the afghan army was also reduced because 5000 taliban prisoners

were released back into the battlefield against the afghan government . so what you saw government. so what you saw happen on the 15th of august 2021 was basically a rapid set of events and right now, as you mentioned, women aren't allowed to go to university, they're not allowed to work, they're not allowed to work, they're not allowed to work, they're not allowed to go to parks. they're not allowed to actually their home without a male chaperone. and at the time, we were told, well, this is the new taliban. they've changed ways. they won't be oppressive towards women. be so oppressive towards women. that was never convincing, was it? right from the it? no said right from the start. shouldn't start. we shouldn't trust them. and shouldn't believe what and we shouldn't believe what say is just pr . say because this is just a pr. they're trying to get recognition from the western world. i mean, mohammed, the un's top woman , she actually un's top woman, she actually went to the taliban recently to try and convince them to allow women to work in aid agencies because of the humanitarian situation . and what she said was situation. and what she said was that they really want recognition and they basically want to do a negotiation recognition for allowing women to have their freedoms and fundamental rights . what could

fundamental rights. what could be in terms of tackling be done in terms of tackling this issue ? is it the question? this issue? is it the question? is it a question of the western powers getting together and trying taliban? is it trying to put on taliban? is it perhaps islamic states with the occupy play a part in it? so i think it's a bit of both. i think it's a bit of both. i think that sometimes we underestimate much power we have as the uk, as the uk in general. i think, i as the uk, as the uk in general. ithink, i must as the uk, as the uk in general. i think, i must co signatory to a to minister rishi a letter to prime minister rishi sunak to host a sunak asking him to host a global on the situation global summit on the situation with afghan women and girls. one to create a safe asylum route for those who are at risk to and make sure that afghan women are involved in any future negotiations with taliban, because that's where really the taliban can be held account. but also islamic countries, specifically arab countries , the specifically arab countries, the uae, qatar , jordan, these other uae, qatar, jordan, these other countries who have muslim majority , they can actually majority, they can actually stand up and say what the taliban is doing is not islamic because other muslim countries allow women go to university, they allow them to work and they allow them to drive . you know,

allow them to drive. you know, saudi arabia just lifted the ban on not being able to drive . so on not being able to drive. so what they're doing is un—islamic, in essence, is that part of the problem? there's a perception issue. people think, well, because there are a human rights , women in other rights abuses, women in other arabic countries, that maybe the taliban are just the norm when it comes to these kinds of things. yeah, i think there is a narrative that this is an islamic way life, but it islamic way of life, but it actually and you look at actually is. and if you look at afghanistan in the 1950s, 1960s, what a completely what you see is a completely different you different type of country. you know, women in miniskirts. and they the freedom choose they had the freedom to choose what outside, worked. what they wore outside, worked. they travelled they studied, they travelled freely . so this move towards freely. so this move towards extremism has come of war. and i think that people fail to understand that. and people know you've been speaking to women in afghanistan . have you any afghanistan. have you any particular responses from them at the moment or any examples that you could give? yeah. so the that the taliban banned girls university. i had dozens of afghan girls from the south reach and basically reach out to me and basically beg can . we come universities beg can. we come to universities beg car. we come to universities beg can. we come to universities beg car. we there to universities beg can. we come to universities

beg car. we there any niversities abroad. are there any opportunities for us? and the difficulty that medical difficulty is that medical studying they can studying english so they can apply studying english so they can apply for scholarships or opportunities abroad. but other students who are studying other subjects can't . they study in subjects can't. they study in their own native languages ? so their own native languages? so it's very difficult . there it's very, very difficult. there have been opportunities that . have been opportunities that. people created universities people have created universities around the world, but the taliban have put a restriction . taliban have put a restriction. no afghan woman or girl is allowed leave the country without a male family. what about men ? afghanistan. are about the men? afghanistan. are they not concerned about the way in which the taliban are, you know, imposing these things on women? so since the 15th of august 2021, afghan and boys have actually been protesting on the streets alongside afghan women for their rights. they've mainly been kidnapped, tortured and imprisoned to end up dead on the street. if do take part in such activities . the day that such activities. the day that afghan women were banned from university, what you saw the east province was afghan boys refused to go to university and actually held a protest outside

of the university saying if you don't like all of us, go in, then we won't go and study the you had more than 100 university professors all men resign from their positions . kabul their positions. kabul university in solidarity with afghan women . but i have to say afghan women. but i have to say that afghan men and boys are under attack from the taliban too, because anybody standing up for the rights of afghan women and girls are being tortured, killed and disappeared. well, that's the problem, because the kind of tactics you're outlining there, i mean, it's intimidating, scary . it's intimidating, it's scary. it's resulting so, you know resulting in death. so, you know , change when have , how can this change when have such an authoritarian body of people in charge and these kind of protests that you describe aren't really having the desired effect? well, the response to both here lies with president biden and the united states government. they're the ones who sat down and actually signed agreement with the taliban that brought them into power. it was basically a surrender with the taliban. the united states government do more. government needs to do more. they power over the taliban they have power over the taliban . they've stopped the $40

million a week that are going to afghanistan was supposed to afghanistan that was supposed to help humanity help with the humanity situation. think that are situation. and i think that are all these types of leverage, as you know isolation from the world making that that world making sure that that sanction the taliban leaders that they can't travel abroad right now what you see is taliban leaders living qatar living in pakistan their daughters are going to schools in. these countries, they have families really countries, yes. even one of the taliban leaders, daughters is playing football in qatar. so it might happen if hypocrisy. complete hypocrisy. so. so this is what i mean. like when we say, you have power. you can leverage this. you can tell them you can't be living in this and then enacting a different law. yes. and that country and a lot of afghans say that these people aren't actually from afghanistan. their afghanistan. they've lived their entire in pakistan. entire lives in pakistan. they've in madrassas in they've studied in madrassas in pakistan. now they're enforcing these islamic laws that these strict islamic laws that are alien to afghan people , are alien to afghan people, didn't know what kind of sun, didn't know what kind of sun, didn't know what flag this to biden's administration in advance one say this

advance did no one say look this will have serious effect on will have a serious effect on women's . why do we talk? women's rights. why do we talk? i think a lot of afghans kept telling the biden administration, you're making a huge mistake by not including afghan government. they excluded the afghans from negotiations with taliban. so you see the deal that ambassador khalilzad, the us ambassador at the time, signed with the taliban. they first signed that deal and then opened up direct negotiations between the government and the taliban. what they should have doneis taliban. what they should have done is what afghans were asking is firm with us and say to is stand firm with us and say to the taliban, no , you will sit the taliban, no, you will sit down with the afghan government . democratically . this is a democratically elected government and you will do negotiation with do a direct negotiation with them. didn't. they caved . them. they didn't. they caved. the taliban open to negotiations. i think that a lot of people say on the ground that there are you know individual us who are moderates and that are open to having these discussions and negotiations because many them, as you know, they are standing there and daughters to schools . and, you know, i had

schools. and, you know, i had a meeting with a former foreign minister of the taliban regime in kabul a few years ago , and he in kabul a few years ago, and he had opened up a girls school. so there are people who believe the rights of women and girls, but believe believe in a framework under islamic laws. right. you know, with hijab and segregation and, all of this. and i think that if that's the compromise, then let's do that as long as women and girls have that freedom. i mean, we've seen in iran, of course, lots of protests and women burning their veils , dancing in the street, veils, dancing in the street, these sort of incredible bravery . there's serious risk doing those kinds of things. is that kind of grassroots people just just courage from the people who are under these regimes, is that how this is going to end? yeah, i think that whatever comes, it has to come from the up. but, you know , a lot of people are you know, a lot of people are losing their lives and with a country currently today, 160 people died and afghanistan because of the cold, harsh winter and the humanity and aid

isn't reaching the right people . the taliban are engaging in and taking this aid for themselves and their own families. i think that this is what we're going see, these people taking huge risks to their own lives and of their families to try and change to our country. okay pamela assad, thank you so much for joining today. and political situation today. and a political situation . after the break on free speech nafion . after the break on free speech nation after alec baldwin was charged with involuntary manslaughter. we'll hear from a woman who says hollywood has a safety problem. see you in 3 minutes .

welcome back to free speech nation. actor alec baldwin faces a charge of involuntary manslaughter after a woman was shot dead in the set. a film

cinematographer. hannah hutchins was killed in october 2021 when baldwin fired a proper gun. baldwin fired a proper gun. baldwin faces up to months in jail and a fine of more than £4,000 if he is convicted . £4,000 if he is convicted. theresa beardsley is a specialist in set safety and she joins me now from california. thanks very much for joining me today. i want ask you first about this question of on set safety. is there an endemic problem in hollywood when ? it problem in hollywood when? it comes to this issue . absolutely comes to this issue. absolutely the conditions in hollywood films are absolutely chaotic, long and it and it is a safety issue . is alec, though, the only issue. is alec, though, the only one responsible? because there are surely other experts on set other people who should have been monitoring this situation. it feels very much like he is at the focus of this. but but surely there is more to it than that. surely there is more to it than that . always more to it. and the

that. always more to it. and the courts will decide where the responsibility and who is going to be responsible for what. but this really the responsible falls on the leadership . safety falls on the leadership. safety really starts at the top. so if you don't have leadership the top and then then you don't have the safety that comes down to anything on site . theresa, is it anything on site. theresa, is it the case? a lot of this has to do with the fact that you're deaung do with the fact that you're dealing with creative people. and a lot of time for creative people, health and safety isn't really the top priority. could that be the case? i'd that safety often falls to the wayside. crews is deeply concerned about their safety on in the workplace, on site, on set . like i said, they're set. like i said, they're working hours, 12 to 16 hour

days. they're carrying lots of equipment and lots of deadly lines. there are a lot of egos . lines. there are a lot of egos. so often the creative gets pushed ahead of some of the safety protocols . and how often safety protocols. and how often does this kind of thing happen? i mean, we're hearing about presumably because alec baldwin so famous, but all these kind of accidents more common than we think . yes, they are not think. yes, they are not particularly those that lead in and lead to death , but there are and lead to death, but there are and lead to death, but there are a lot of injuries. i mean, there are a few lead to death. of course , know you see the public course, know you see the public where there are trampolines and things of that nature . but yeah, things of that nature. but yeah, there there are often at least one or two physical injuries or incidents on site. so what would you like to see happen in of

hollywood in terms of changing this culture to prioritise safety more? what can what can the executives there be doing ? the executives there be doing? executives should really be the studios production companies produce , stories . there are produce, stories. there are protocols . but they really need protocols. but they really need to set a culture of incorporating these that maybe even having a safety representative on site. some companies do this already that have somebody who's in charge of all of this. i mean know we saw with that there were the checks and balances that were missed on.and and balances that were missed on. and so you could somebody on set who's completely to overseeing the risk assessments and everything that goes . and and everything that goes. and sure that everything moves along safely . okay. well, theresa safely. okay. well, theresa beardsley , thanks so much for beardsley, thanks so much for talking to us about this. really

appreciate . get leo. what do you appreciate. get leo. what do you think? if you have any on this, i mean, it does feel like it can't just be that alec baldwin is for this. there is got to be something problematic going on on yeah, we film sets on the set. yeah, we film sets are pretty chaotic. i nearly got squished when i was dressed as a cat, forklift truck for cat, a forklift truck for a whisky streaming advert. cat, a forklift truck for a whisky streaming advert . are you whisky streaming advert. are you sure that's not just a dream you had? definitely. how about definitely. yeah. yeah. okay. and you're very scarred as a result because the driver wearing a cat outfit as well. so you can see where it was going. so, you know, do dangerous things film sets. is it to do things on film sets. is it to do with you think? and this with what do you think? and this is to do with the fact that is it's to do with the fact that creatives are just not very sensible. oh, yeah, should sensible. oh, yeah, we should 100% actors like 100% stop treating actors like the people , the complete the normal people, the complete nafion the normal people, the complete nation allowed any kind of weapon at any point in ball. weapon at any point in the ball. their expen the ball. so we need to we need to understand we do need safety protocols . we can need safety protocols. we can just them, especially just replace them, especially alec baldwin, who's i think got eight kids and never show a

blank really? yeah blank in his life. really? yeah very, very funny. hayden, i almost didn't. i almost didn't get that . but there we go . but i get that. but there we go. but i do feel sorry for him, though. i mean, it must be an absolutely horrendous situation to in. yeah. be the this yeah. and to be the focus this horrible know that horrible thing and to know that you were responsible for someone's death but never get cast it's cast a movie again unless it's proper gun. maverick. no gun again. i'm going to put a stop to this now. but listen, thank you so much. i really appreciate you so much. i really appreciate you coming along this. wonderful studio when this came along to join us for free speech nation. this was, of course, the week when s&p woke up to the when the s&p woke up to the problem gender self problem of gender self identification. cumming, identification. alan cumming, a stand british stand against the british empire, about 100 years too late and. nadhim zahawi got his comeuppance. so i'd like to my wonderful panel leo kearse and haydon prowse and to my brilliant guests kate coleman bulmer, kevin lester , teresa bulmer, kevin lester, teresa beardsley and mona assad. and by the way, if you want to come and join us live in the studio and be part our wonderful audience,

that's really easy to do. if you just go to w ww dot, sro audiences .com you can apply there. come along we've got food , we've got drink. there's normally some wine out there. it's good but it's not very good wine, but it's and be part of it's okay. come and be part of the . stay tuned, by the way, the fun. stay tuned, by the way, for the brilliant marc dolan tonight. coming next. tonight. that is coming up next. please do forget that please do not forget that headliners on every night headliners is on every night at 11 pm. headline is it's a late night paper preview show where comedians take through the next day's top news stories. i normally hosting one or two times a week. leo is on it. am i trying to get hate and paris back as well if he can be persuaded. thank you so much for watching free speech nation tonight. see you next week . tonight. see you next week. hello here's your latest update from met office. with me, jonathan autry . the weekend jonathan autry. the weekend brought us a mix of clouds, rain and, some strong winds. but we believe that all behind for the start of the new working week. we do have these frontal slowly clearing their way up . and clearing their way up. and behind that we've got a ridge of

high pressure building in which will help to settle things down as into monday. for now, as we move into monday. for now, though, culprit moving though, that culprit is moving across wales , parts of england. across wales, parts of england. the rain though fairly patchy. behind we've got clear behind that we've got clear spells, showers feeling their way into scotland . these are way into scotland. these are heavy in places . some way into scotland. these are heavy in places. some hail from the mixture as. heavy in places. some hail from the mixture as . well. brisk the mixture as. well. brisk winds for many of us mean that there is a reduced risk of frost in most towns and cities will up around five or six degrees celsius into the new working week then the cloud just filtering off the south to begin with behind that a good amount of sunny intervals for many of us.the of sunny intervals for many of us. the showers in the north fading breeze also to fading and the breeze also to die down as well. and it should be relatively pleasant day for, many of us. temperatures will be around 8 to 10 degrees across southern areas but more around 7 to 6 degrees across parts of into late afternoon. in the evening we will start to see the cloud pushing in again across northern ireland and into scotland. and this brings us the return of some wet and windy

weather. this then pushing southwards across england and wales , again turning relatively wales, again turning relatively patchy as it moves south. blustery showers following back in for scotland. again, these could hail in the mixture of snow falling around 400 metres over the mountains. but behind that, a good number of sunny intervals for england, wales and northern during the day on tuesday . my confidence thinks tuesday. my confidence thinks it's way south and then behind that we've got a squeeze the ice balls around this low pressure centre that could bring some particularly winds . particularly strong winds. scotland and into scotland tuesday night and into start of wednesday. so there is a yellow weather warning in force otherwise we hold on force for. otherwise we hold on to a mixture of sunshine and showers as we move throughout the rest of the week .

welcome to gloria. we got a three former cabinet ministers in this evening's show. one from the last labour government, in this evening's show. one from the last labour government , two the last labour government, two who was sat around the top table just for months ago. both of them open up to me about their mental health. first up, it's simon clarke . i see a therapist simon clarke. i see a therapist who you know, is helping with that. who you know, is helping with that . and i think that's a good that. and i think that's a good thing to do. former conservative party chairman jake berry, you suffered with depression at university. you suffered with it again a few years ago, just as the positive side of that is that it passed both times. do you think it could come back because of course it can do. i don't think it can come back. i think it will come back. he was health secretary under the last labour government. alan milburn working in residential care or in domiciliary care, looking after often severely frail elderly or disabled people. and what do we pay them? we pay them in the minimum wage. you can get

as much working in tesco's come on, guys. it's not serious . all on, guys. it's not serious. all that after your news . that after your news. i'm ray anderson in the gb newsroom. rishi sunak has sacked nadhim zahawi after an ethics inquiry found that he committed a serious breach of the ministerial code. the former tory party chairman has been facing questions over his tax affairs after he admitted that he paid a penalty to hmrc for an error linked to shares in polling company yougov. in a letter, mr. zahawi told the prime minister he will continue to support the government from the backbenches . mp jacob the backbenches. mp jacob rees—mogg says he has sympathy for him . the report seems to for him. the report seems to show that he made some technical errors with his declaration of the ministerial code and the prime minister has decided that they were serious enough to fire him. so i feel sorry for nadhim

zahawi , but i think that after zahawi, but i think that after it dominating the headlines for a week , the rule of politics is a week, the rule of politics is that if you do that, it's very hard to remain in office . well, hard to remain in office. well, labour party chair annaliese dodds has written to rishi sunak saying he also has a lot of questions to answer . what did he questions to answer. what did he know and when about that enormous settlement that nadhim zahawi was negotiating with hmrc and the huge penalty that he had to pay points of rishi sunak's say in parliament that all questions had been answered about this affair on offer. why on earth is the prime minister holding up this rogue's gallery of conservative ministers with others who obviously broken security rules, who are subject to allegations of very serious bullying and yet the prime minister seems to weak to act against them to scotland and no newly convicted transgender person with a history of

violence against women will be placed in female prisons there. the temporary measure aims to ensure the safety of inmates while the management of trans prisoners is examined. the decision comes ahead of an urgent review into lessons learned by the case of convicted double rapist isla bryson, who was originally sent to a women's prison . the 16 year old boy has prison. the 16 year old boy has been charged with the murder of a teenage girl in hexham. 15 year old holly newton was stabbed in the priest poplar area of the town on friday. she died in hospital. the 16 year old boy was also injured in that attack. the accused, who can't be named for legal reasons , has be named for legal reasons, has also been charged with attempted murder . the also been charged with attempted murder. the housing secretary has admitted that 40 government guidance allowed the grenfell tower tragedy to happen. michael gove says the whole system of building safety wasn't policed effectively enough. he's expected to announce a six week

deadune expected to announce a six week deadline for developers