well hello there at 6:00. i'm michelle dewberry and this is dewbs & co. the show where we'll dewbs& co. the show where we'll get into some of the things that have got you talking. i'll tell you what got me talking the weekend. you see that? some weekend. did you see that? some might surprise announcement. might say surprise announcement. some say it was too long some might say it was too long coming. talking about nadhim coming. i'm talking about nadhim zahawi longer the zahawi away. no longer the chairman of the tory party . full chairman of the tory party. full stop. or i should make a. but it isn't because so many people, it's not enough. they're saying

he shouldn't even be an mp. where do you stand on that? is it time for him to go? i'll together or do you start with the bits of nadine when he's complaining about the press and saying it's them that's to blame with their negativity? it's time now for a halt. where do you stand on it all? also, have you seen the news about the army apparently spying on us? if we dared to differentiate from the government's path of locking up one down for as long as possible , is that their job or is that a little bit of overreach and a hundred and £60 million in one year was spent on this so—called aspen cask given to asylum seekers . let's not forget, of seekers. let's not forget, of course, this is on top of the billions of pounds we spent on hotel. i dread to think how much we spend on legal services and so on and surf off. some people are telling me that it's outrageous because get this, it's not enough money. apparently we should be giving them more. really. and when it

comes to people out of work , how comes to people out of work, how much of a responsibility is they of the government to get them back into work benefits, for example ? how long should they be example? how long should they be paid for? that is the conversations that i want to have with you tonight, both before we get into them, let's bnng before we get into them, let's bring ourselves to speed, bring ourselves up to speed, shall with all of the day's shall we? with all of the day's latest headlines . michel, thank latest headlines. michel, thank you. good evening to you. fire fighters and control room staff have voted for their first nationwide strike over pay in 20 years. the fire brigades union said its members have experienced a i2% drop in real terms earnings since 2010. last november , members rejected a pay november, members rejected a pay rise of 5. and also today , we've rise of 5. and also today, we've learned that teachers are planning to go on strike in england and wales. that's on wednesday after last minute talks between unions and the government failed. it's expected to be the biggest day of

industrial action in decades , industrial action in decades, with up to half a million public service workers, including train drivers and civil servants, also taking action. union leaders say there's no offer from the education secretary on trying to bndge education secretary on trying to bridge the gap and has squandered an opportunity to avoid strike action. but the education secretary says it was a constructive meeting . we've a constructive meeting. we've been quite engaged over a long penod been quite engaged over a long period of time and clearly it's difficult because we want to halve inflation and they want to have rises that will fuel inflation. but we all have in constructive discussions about future pay, about workload , future pay, about workload, about how to make sure that we can retain and recruit teachers. gillian keegan well, the health secretary has announced gillian keegan well, the health secretary has announce d £1 secretary has announced £1 billion in funding to boost nhs frontline capability . steve frontline capability. steve barclay says the government will work to bring response times to pre—pandemic levels . the plan pre—pandemic levels. the plan also includes 5000 more hospital beds, 800 new ambulances as well

as expanding urgent care to take place in people's homes. mr. barclay also says the government will publish the number of 12 hour wait lists . but labour says hour wait lists. but labour says the plans aren't enough to tackle the problems . meanwhile, tackle the problems. meanwhile, the prime minister has been busy defending his handling of the nadeem zahawi row, saying he acted decisively. rishi sunak has been under pressure to reveal what he knew about zahawi tax affairs. the prime minister says he sacked the concerned party chairman yesterday straight after an ethics inquiry found he had committed a serious breach of the ministerial code . breach of the ministerial code. well, these questions started coming to light about nadhim zahawi . you know, i asked the zahawi. you know, i asked the independent adviser to get to the bottom of it and to provide me with the facts. i was able to make a very quick decision and it was no longer appropriate for nadhim zahawi to continue in government. he's government. and that's why he's no there. that's what no longer there. and that's what i've relates things i've done. it relates to things that well i was that happened. well before i was

prime it's prime minister. it's unfortunate. i can't change what happened the past. well, in happened in the past. well, in his from home, the us his away from home, the us secretary state called secretary of state has called for an of tensions. while for an easing of tensions. while he was on a visit to jerusalem following spike in violence in following a spike in violence in the region on friday, israeli forces killed ten palestinians, most of whom they say were gunmen. and that's after a palestinian man carried out a gun attack in east jerusalem, killing seven people. anthony blinken says it's everyone's response , ability to calm response, ability to calm tensions rather than inflame them. mr. blinken also says america's commitment to israel's security remains ironclad . security remains ironclad. america's commitment has never wavered. it never will. and today, the prime minister and i discussed ways that we can continue to strengthen our partnership and our shared security interests . we agree security interests. we agree that iran must never be allowed to acquire a nuclear weapon and we discussed deepening cooperation to confront and counter iran's destabilising activities in the region and

beyond . and lastly, the personal beyond. and lastly, the personal data of around 10 million sports customers may be at risk after the company was hit by a cyber attack . the sportswear chain attack. the sportswear chain says hackers may have access, private information , including private information, including email accounts , phone numbers email accounts, phone numbers and the last four digits of bank cards . it affects orders placed cards. it affects orders placed with the company between november 28 and october of 2020. jd sports says it was contacting affected customers . that's set affected customers. that's set you up to date on tv, online and dab+ radio with gb news. we're back in an hour. in the meantime , his dewbs & co. , his dewbs& co. thanks for that, polly . well, i'm keeping that, polly. well, i'm keeping you company until 7:00 this evening. and alongside me, i've got john mcternan, the political

strategist and former political adviser to tony blair. and also henry hill, a deputy editor of conservativehome. welcome generous of you . do you remember generous of you. do you remember this fella, john hume , that you this fella, john hume, that you all last week? in fact, the columnist blamed on john? it was the pair of them quite frankly, in together . the pair of them quite frankly, in together. in it the pair of them quite frankly, in together . in it together in it together. in it together to remember if you're a regular viewer, they were going on about you makes me laugh. you laughing. it makes me laugh. or because sure or should laugh because i'm sure it suggestion. it was a sensible suggestion. but you spend an hour but taxing you spend an hour wealth on private homes on wealth on your private homes on end . as john, you end wealth. as john, you remember that . well, they're remember that. well, they're back again anyway . you know the back again anyway. you know the drill, don't you? it's not just about us here in the studio. it's about you at home as well. what's on your mind tonight? a quick reminder. want to quick reminder. i want to talk to about these cards . to you about these aspen cards. £60 million in a year went to the asylum seekers. what do you think to that? one of my panel says it's not enough . it's says it's not enough. it's outrageous because it's not paying outrageous because it's not paying let guess paying off. i'll let you guess which of them thinks that's. which one of them thinks that's. i it's outrage. quite i think it's outrage. it's quite frankly, because i just think

the whole thing is out of control races . he was in the control races. he was in the military for nine years. and this aspen card is only £80. basically his pension sorry, is only basically his pension sorry, is only £80 a month more than the people are getting on the aspen card. steve says at this rate, he's going to get on one of these dinghies and come back to these dinghies and come back to the uk and have the life of riley pretty marched in four star your aspen star hotels with your aspen cards the rest of cards and all the rest of it probably won't be far beyond probably won't be too far beyond himself. if i'm honest. anyway, i also want ask you, as well, i also want to ask you, as well, how do you think is the how much do you think is the responsibility the government responsibility of the government and you get and the state to help you get a new if you lose your own ? new job if you lose your own? lots of lots of the other things as coming but that's as well coming up. but that's we'll you a flavour it. we'll give you a flavour of it. gb views gb news is .uk is gb views at gb news is .uk is the email address or you can tweet me at gb news or michelle dewberry. paul has been in touch. speaking twitter, he touch. speaking of twitter, he says watches show every says he watches the show every single you saw me at single night. and you saw me at the boxing on the boxing apparently on saturday. so you want me to say hello to you, sir? hello to you.

ihope hello to you, sir? hello to you. i hope you enjoyed the boxing. i certainly did. right. let's get into our top story then, shall we? nadhim zahawi .we've been we? nadhim zahawi. we've been going in circles on this going around in circles on this one, haven't we? should go ? one, haven't we? should it go? should it be jump? should it. should it be jump? should it. should it be jump? should it. should it be jump? should it be pushed? what was the situation? well, we know the answer and i'll do it. we? because he is longer the tory because he is no longer the tory party chairman , but it doesn't party chairman, but it doesn't stop there. many people are saying that because he's conducted what's been called a serious breach of the ministerial code, then he should now go . it shouldn't be an mp. now go. it shouldn't be an mp. apparently should resign as that as well, should he? i don't. i don't personally think so . he's don't personally think so. he's resigned from the government, which is right and proper. was been sacked from the government. sorry which is sorry i should say, which is right proper. and that's right and proper. and that's that's the proper consequence for i think for this. but personally i think that's penalty enough. that's probably penalty enough. i think should have quite a i think we should have quite a high threshold withdrawing high threshold for withdrawing the effectively the weapon, which is effectively how the tories would expel him from and also make from parliament and also to make a broader point. a slightly broader point. i think we want people to think if we want more people to own doing things wrong own up to doing things wrong and to get back to this

to kind of get back to this culture people resign and culture where people resign and put their hands up, then on our part, would probably part, that would probably require more forgiving require us to be more forgiving . right. can accept that . right. we can accept that when someone something or someone done something wrong or they've paid a penalty, we don't. then press on and demand that entire that they lose their entire career price of career because of the price of being is losing being caught. is losing everything. people are just more likely hide, likely to double down, to hide, to send those threatening lawyers apparently lawyers letters that apparently nadine doesn't always team with sending. think it's sending. so no, i think it's right he's left the cabinet right that he's left the cabinet , i don't that the , but i don't think that the tory should expel him. oh, tory party should expel him. oh, you're are you? you're a forgiving man, are you? is is him. well, is forgiving is him. john well, it's interest of the it's in the interest of the labour party. the nadhim zahawi hangs around tory party like hangs around the tory party like a bad smell. it's in the interest of justice. he goes and goes completely. he's done goes completely. what he's done is a joke. he's. he's having a laugh at entire country. is a joke. he's. he's having a laugh at the entire country . £5 laugh at the entire country. £5 million he used to pay the tax authorities, which includes a masseur . authorities, which includes a masseur. fine. that's not careless. that is contemptuous . careless. that is contemptuous. and he really should not be in a position where he can vote on passing laws anymore. he needs

to be out completely. do you think that he should have? well, let me ask you the order of events. as you say, he didn't resign . he was pushed. do you resign. he was pushed. do you think should have resigned? think he should have resigned? yeah. absolutely. yeah. i mean, yeah, absolutely. so, of what mr. zahawi so, so much of what mr. zahawi did in conducting himself in this case has made it made his position so much worse. how do he resigned? i think the impact on political would on his political future would have because he have been better because he could seen to do the could have been seen to do the right thing. if at some right thing. and if at some point between now and the next election, rishi had had election, rishi sunak had had another might another reshuffle, he might have been him back in been able to bring him back in some of ministerial role. some kind of ministerial role. but fact that it took he had but the fact that it took he had to dragged his to be dragged out by his fingernails and sacked by the prime minister, which is relatively normally relatively unusual. normally you're and you're handed the revolver and allowed that allowed to resign means that he's that yeah he's may it means that yeah absolutely it much more absolutely he made it much more difficult himself difficult for himself than it needed be. then you needed to be. but then you surprise by saying all that surprise me by saying all that and then saying, boortz, let him keep his job essentially his primary being mp. primary job of being an mp. i mean, fundamentally, maybe maybe i'm i think mean, fundamentally, maybe maybe i'm of ithink mean, fundamentally, maybe maybe i'm of one i think mean, fundamentally, maybe maybe i'm of one of i think mean, fundamentally, maybe maybe i'm of one of my i think mean, fundamentally, maybe maybe i'm of one of my big i think mean, fundamentally, maybe maybe i'm of one of my big concerns part of one of my big concerns about politics generally at the moment that attitudes moment is that public attitudes

towards mp, they're so caustic and, they're exposed and, you know, they're exposed to thati and, you know, they're exposed to that i want them to so much that i do want them to so much that i do want them to better and i want to behave better and i do want them to more willing to open them to be more willing to open up they've done up to when they've done something i think something wrong. but i think that parcel of that is that part and parcel of that is that part and parcel of that is that there does need to be a way for them pay a debt without for them to pay a debt without completely their completely immolating their political has political career is now he has been sacked. i think he'll languish on the backbenches but withdrawing the withdrawing withdrawing the whip for maybe for me personally maybe i'm wrong something that wrong it's not something that i feel strongly about feel particularly strongly about repeatedly us repeatedly lied to us by journalists, said journalists, he said. he said the an inquiry into me the there was an inquiry into me then clarified later to the then he clarified later to the inquiry, people are inquiry, you know, people are asking but that's not asking questions, but that's not like an inquiry into me. he threatened are threatened journalists who are asking to asking them, asking him to confirm something that was true. he them libel. he threatened them with libel. that unacceptable a that is unacceptable by a public, know, an mp should that is unacceptable by a pubthreatenznow, an mp should that is unacceptable by a pubthreaten aow, an mp should that is unacceptable by a pubthreaten a journalist should that is unacceptable by a pubthreaten a journalist withrld not threaten a journalist with libel when they're asking something that the mp knows to be true. that is, intimidation . be true. that is, intimidation. it's using your wealth. it's trying to get that, keep the truth from the viewers. keep the truth, truth from the voters is gone beyond. the fact he had gone beyond. and the fact he had to dragged suggests that to be dragged out suggests that he his

he didn't really believe his behaviour any way behaviour was wrong in any way and that , you know, you maybe and that, you know, you maybe can forgive people if they accept they were wrong . accept that they were wrong. he's fighting this. he's briefing the he briefing in the papers. he believes he's been badly treated . should be kicked . i think he should be kicked and touched completely. what do we this? i think it's we make of this? i think it's quite a bizarre of , you quite a bizarre practise of, you know, these public letters . so know, these public letters. so rishi's letter basically firing and that's public. and then the dame writes back this weird pubuc dame writes back this weird public letter saying, you know, thanks basically , you're amazing thanks basically, you're amazing and i'm going to continue to serve you. but i found that in itself a very peculiar practise. but aside from that, one of the things that they do zahawi said in his letter , is he's saying in his letter, is he's saying he's concerned about the conduct of some of the fourth estate in recent weeks . he references, in recent weeks. he references, in particular one headline, which was about the new tight saying, do you think he's got a point with that or is it just trying to pin his predicament on someone else ? no. given the someone else? no. given the given the way the modern conservative party likes to talk about snowflakes, that's an

incredibly thing incredibly snowflake thing to do. very do. i personally have very little people who think little time for people who think that metaphor, violent that using metaphor, violent metaphors in the press is equivalent to actually threatening violence . you know, threatening violence. you know, you get this nonsense in america when you say somebody targeted something what, like a something like or what, like a gun and you're like, well, no, obviously not. so no, ultimately, mean, you know, ultimately, i mean, you know, powell, once a powell, i think once had a politician complaining about the press sailor press is like a sailor complaining the sea. complaining about the sea. right. is the job of the right. like it is the job of the media investigate these media to investigate these stories. the job the stories. it was the job of the media to bring this to light, which did. which eventually they did. and i think absurd that he is think it is absurd that he is continuing to against them continuing to rail against them instead accepting that did instead of accepting that he did something ultimately something wrong. and ultimately the did the journalists involved did their he's got their job. do you think he's got a point, john, in terms of the media behaviour? no, i think he's trying to have kick he's he's trying to have a kick at on the way out when at the media on the way out when it media that actually it was the media that actually exposed the truth about him. and there's still this unexplored thing, which is the reference i saw. cummings, i made a saw. dominic cummings, i made a reference to nadhim zahawi reference to that nadhim zahawi is apparently under investigation hmrc and investigation by the hmrc and the , the national crime the nca, the national crime agency across . the more agency that's across. the more

you a kick at the press, you have a kick at the press, the more the beginning was that tone it was tweeting about the national agency. we national crime agency. maybe we should that . so should have a look at that. so i wonder what the story is finished and it wouldn't be beyond imagination, but the rishi too weak to take rishi sunak is too weak to take the whip him, and then it's the whip from him, and then it's forced something forced later on with something else just wonder if else happens. i just wonder if there's the story . and there's more to the story. and so was a right leaning so this was a right leaning newspaper that was referring to, i don't know, say , a black mp or i don't know, say, a black mp or whatever and was saying like the noose was tightening and so do you think people are like i said, that i mean i mean some people might i think that in in, you know, obviously all of this thing all of this stuff is contextual. although we're contextual. and although we're not , i think that not in america, i think that would slightly different would have a slightly different context it in. but context to saying it in. but ultimately, would i'd ultimately, i would still i'd still oppose people who criticise because think criticise that because i think it important that, you know, it is important that, you know, using violent metaphor using a violent metaphor in media same thing as media is not the same thing as actively violent, violent actively urging violent, violent behaviour against someone . i behaviour against someone. i think it's specious to argue it and the same and i think it's the same whether it's a left right whether it's a left or right wing bleating that .

wing mp bleating about that. what saying to the media what are you saying to the media at way that they at home and the way that they behave me, lot of this behave to me, a lot of this feels like a witch hunt. they won't stop. who should replace zahawi then, john? well, i've really, really, really support this idea that's being floated. the boris johnson should come back as the chair of the tory party. it's not in the interest of the tory party, but it's definitely been in the interests of and the interest of the of fun and the interest of the labour party to have a man who failed so spectacularly as the as minister to come as the prime minister to come back chairman of the tory back as the chairman of the tory party. why you it party. why do you think it wouldn't be in the best interests the tories so interests of the tories so november. two reasons. one november. well two reasons. one is he's much more charismatic november. well two reasons. one is hethan|ch more charismatic november. well two reasons. one is he than|ch m

put the prime minister first. he put the prime minister first. he put johnson in first. put boris johnson in first. bofis put boris johnson in first. boris people say , do you boris johnson people say, do you think johnson could be the think boris johnson could be the next person or not next replacement person or not as chairman? yeah. i mean , i as chairman? yeah. i mean, i don't so. i mean, what are don't think so. i mean, what are the two what are the two parts of the chairman's job as the chairman of the conservative party? is to be the message party? one is to be the message carrier to go out in the morning media out attack labour. media out and attack labour. bofis ifs media out and attack labour. boris it's not boris johnson it's not a disciplined carrier. you disciplined message carrier. you know, getting know, the idea of him getting rishi lines and rishi sunak's lines and repeating was a bit repeating them when i was a bit ridiculous. and the second is to organise and oversee the conservative party's leadership, not leadership general election campaign. is campaign. now boris johnson is a very front man. he has an very good front man. he has an awful lot of talent as a communicator, but he's not an organiser. of boris organiser. the idea of boris johnson going a series of johnson going into a series of meetings, target meetings, drawing up target lists, the lists, you know, talking to the fourth largest is absurd. so fourth largest is, is absurd. so he do either the he wouldn't do either of the things that the chairman is actually for. what he would do with he would he with johnson's is he would he would showing sunak would out showing rishi sunak he would out showing rishi sunak he would soap box. he'd would use that soap box. he'd become powerful rallying become a more powerful rallying point many tory mp who point for the many tory mp who are rishi's are dissatisfied with rishi's leadership. point he leadership. there's no point he might as well just stand for leader. there's no

leader. there's no there's no purpose having as purpose in having him as chairman have as prime chairman or to have him as prime minister nothing. so. so who minister or nothing. so. so who then? be the man or then? who should be the man or woman the well, i woman for the job? well, i course said i. look i like the suggestions that should be william you're william hague. and if you're going have retreads of going to go and have retreads of former leaders william hague better johnson, better than boris johnson, theresa would be a theresa may would be would be a laugh got to be laugh as well. it's got to be somebody cool headed, somebody who's cool headed, somebody who's cool headed, somebody actually handle somebody who can actually handle all enquiries morning all the enquiries on the morning round on on tv and radio and somebody who the somebody who can do the organisational thing that is really why i don't really hard. that's why i don't think william hague will in a million years take this job. but he actually got the media he has actually got the media skills and he's got the organisational skills and that's quite find quite a difficult thing to find and that many and there's not that many people. the reason i suspect people. and the reason i suspect that so the theme is how he's held on to so long by rishi sunakis held on to so long by rishi sunak is there's a limit to the number of competent people on the frontbench who can speak and walk and at the same time. walk and talk at the same time. well one the reasons i would well one of the reasons i would say a limit, i would be say there's a limit, i would be a harsher than that, a bit harsher than that, actually. would say there's actually. i would say there's a limit number of competent limit to the number of competent people but i would

people in politics,. but i would blame one of those reasons on the media. i think going into pubuc the media. i think going into public office in this day and age , i mean, who would want to age, i mean, who would want to do it ? you're age, i mean, who would want to do it? you're going to get like literally every single inch of you and your family. let's face it, scrutiny is within an inch of your life, whether it's relevant to the job in hand or not. and i think actually a lot of it puts people off good people off. and then you end up with an absolute shower like we seem off in then, not now, but who should replace zahawi then? henry so i mean, as john says, the findings , i'm the one person the findings, i'm the one person who can do both sides of the role is very difficult. i think it would be actually perfectly possible, as has been in possible, as has been done in the past, have co—chairmen the past, to have co—chairmen and basically divide the and you basically divide the role you someone to role up and you find someone to do organisational side who do the organisational side who probably haven't probably most people haven't heard of and shouldn't hear about their disciplined and about in their disciplined and organised. you can maybe raid the lords for someone the house of lords for someone like someone from like that or get someone from business. then rishi business. and then what rishi needs somebody who is a good needs is somebody who is a good communicator and grant shapps is someone very the

someone who's very good on the morning and can do morning meeting round and can do that is prepared serve in that and is prepared to serve in his government and loyal his government and be loyal to his government and be loyal to his message. i had to pick his message. so if i had to pick someone off the of my head someone off the top of my head for brief, just a for that brief, just a communications i'd pick communications brief, i'd pick someone like shapps with someone like grant shapps with the someone handling the support of someone handling the support of someone handling the side the organisational side of things, you like to things, who would you like to see the tory chairman? see as the next tory chairman? tell me at home? says. tell me at home? diana says. i do not think zahawi should be kicked out of parliament. he's had his punishment now by being sacked important sacked from his very important position . who just give it position. who will just give it a now ? done dusted . and a rest now? done and dusted. and a rest now? done and dusted. and a dame was right, says carol, when he says his sacking was due to the media pressure. the fourth estate. he called it. when will the media call it? a day overall? less, it seems more and more. the media seems to just be wanting this thing and getting rid of people. and then the government came in. i think that you've got a point in that ken says the housing in the pm are here for their own good power and inside knowledge gives them advantage to make them an advantage to make decisions their investments decisions on their investments or quite accusations that can

ivor says. andrew bridgen had the withdrawn for far less a please can we keep a sense of proportion? i think he's got a good point. last night about you know, is there a little bit double standards, do you think, when it comes to taking whips off people? i mean, ultimately taking the whip off someone is a political decision and it will always made the context of always be made in the context of each one. so depending on how big the governments majority is, how pressure it's under, how much pressure it's under, you the last you know, we saw in the last parliament the whip being given back people it had back to people for whom it had been for very good been removed for very good reasons they desperately reasons because they desperately needed those votes. yes, needed those votes. so, yes, there be a double, there will always be a double, elise, well about andrea elise, as well about andrea leadsom. apparently she would be very job and says very good at the job and says now we will have boris. you want bofis now we will have boris. you want boris that job. when boris for that job. often when i talk things like this as talk about things like this as well, people have said, michelle, one talks michelle, how come no one talks about in labour? about nick brown in labour? everyone's about people everyone's talking about people that are not here or shouldn't be or getting investigated. that are not here or shouldn't be nevertting investigated. that are not here or shouldn't be nevertting inve comezd. that are not here or shouldn't be nevertting inve come up. but he never seems to come up. i'm ignoring i've i'm not ignoring that. i've tried to answers to that and tried to get answers to that and i don't get anywhere. i don't seem to get anywhere. i don't get much of a response. do

you know where nick brown's gone, nick? brown is not gone, nick? nick brown is not well, think he's ill. well, i don't think he's ill. yeah oh, well, there you go. that's news to me. does that answer questions? because answer your questions? because you all the you ask me about that all the time. i'm going to take time. anyway, i'm going to take a we come a quick break. when we come back, lots to get into with you. i'll have some of your feedback on that but i also want on that topic. but i also want to talk to you about things like jobseeker's . whose jobseeker's. whose responsibility is it? is it the government's? how much to earn , government's? how much to earn, to what degree? also have you seen this odd news? i say odd very bizarre. the british army apparently spying on people who dared to criticise covid lockdown . what do you make of lockdown. what do you make of that? we love that and more in 2 minutes .

hi there . i'm michelle dewberry. hi there. i'm michelle dewberry. i'm with you until 7:00 tonight.

alongside me, i've got john mcternan , the political mcternan, the political strategist and former political adviser to tony blair and henry hill, the deputy editor of conservative if whom i've just been asking you guys, who do you think should be the new chairman of tory party? you do make of the tory party? you do make me laugh. so if you guys at home, i have to say phil says, sorry, peter, to give you your credit that a pizza says, what about mickey mouse? you think that a fantastic job that he would do a fantastic job saying nothing ? lee anderson saying nothing? lee anderson thatis saying nothing? lee anderson that is a name that's coming through quite a bit, actually. what do you think to lee anderson henry i think the challenge with putting someone from the red wall in a high profile like that with a profile post like that with a lot responsibility, is that lot of responsibility, is that they distract them from they would distract them from defending seat. defending their own seat. fundamentally, those fundamentally, a lot of those employees they they will fundamentally, a lot of those em|anlees they they will fundamentally, a lot of those em|an incumbency they will fundamentally, a lot of those em|an incumbency advantage. ll fundamentally, a lot of those em|an incumbency advantage. the get an incumbency advantage. the first time, but they're under a lot of pressure where the lot of pressure given where the polls are. and so if i were lee anderson, i would probably want to as time as possible to have as much time as possible to have as much time as possible to my own what to spend in my own patch. what does quite like lee does i do? quite like lee anderson. anyone there? anderson. anyone else out there? agreed. anderson as agreed. you like lee anderson as an mp? look, i think he's got

strong opinions. he's got character. that's one of the things but agree things you need. but i agree with them. henry, people with them. with henry, people have seats have got marginal seats shouldn't away it. shouldn't be taken away from it. chris a successful chris patten ran a successful election campaign for the tories in as chair of the party in 1992 as chair of the party lost his own he was never lost his own seat. he was never in it and if he'd been in the seat, he's either stayed in and that's common. it's that's common. so it's a it's a it's a poisoned chalice for somebody with a marginal seat with these poll numbers . bob with these poll numbers. bob says, penny mordaunt? says, what about penny mordaunt? richard what steve richard says, what about steve baird ? well, we shall see what baird? well, we shall see what we do. i think that decision will imminently , so i'm will be made imminently, so i'm sure be discussing it when sure we'll be discussing it when it . let's talk it happens right. let's talk about this then, shall we? i found this very bizarre. i must be honest . it broke over the be honest. it broke over the weekend. i don't know if you saw this. all about like the this. this is all about like the civil group big civil liberties group big brother. brother watch. they brother. big brother watch. they basically have great basically have this great expose, me , which expose, if you ask me, which explains just some of the stuff that's been going on when it comes to people dared to comes to people who dared to kind of go away from the government's narrative that everyone should terrify , you

everyone should terrify, you know, shake behind the sofa and never leave their house and all the rest of it when it came to covid and get this, apparently the army was spying on critics , the army was spying on critics, people as well that were on the watch list include the tory mp david davis, the journalist peter hitchens and toby young, both of which by the way, you will have seen on this show as well. lots of bizarre stuff going on social media going on, on social media accounts being watched . you had accounts being watched. you had dossiers compiled and all the rest of it. the 77 figure brigade. so it's called brigade, apparently involved doing their job, defending our country, defending a 7077 brigade, 77 bngade defending a 7077 brigade, 77 brigade are on the front line of cyber warfare. they're fighting disinformation , which we know disinformation, which we know the chinese , the iranians, the the chinese, the iranians, the russians are all around getting disinformation spread . and disinformation spread. and they'll use any any way to do that. and they will use british citizens to spread disinformation. we have to have security services to keep an eye on british people, because some british people are not

patriotic. some people undermine our country. some british people should being watched by the should be being watched by the police, the spooks, by some some brigade. and these this is this attack brother watch on attack by big brother watch on our boys, men and women who are fighting on the front line against the russians and their disinformation campaign. i think it's outrageous . well, i'm it's outrageous. well, i'm absolutely astonished by your view. i've got so much. just come back to you on. but henry, your thoughts were so i guess i guess two things. the first of which is that the presence of the army we use, the army for so much now given the given the failing you failing state capacity, you know, to around the know, we use it to around the airports. use it we send airports. we use it so we send it into areas with flooding, you know, so for me, the idea that someone have called the someone would have called up the army some basic monitoring army to do some basic monitoring work the work in the middle of the pandemic, it doesn't necessarily strike me as sinister. i think the thing to the point, which i don't pointed out, is don't think john pointed out, is that disinformation doesn't need to be spread by malicious actors. the nature actors. right. that's the nature of can of disinformation. it can be sincere. people who sincere. the people who sincerely stuff which is sincerely believe stuff which is nonetheless been entered into the ecosystem

the information ecosystem by foreign are foreign actors. so if you are trying to protect the from trying to protect the uk from foreign disinformation, that will necessarily involve seeing the that the extent to which that disinformation is amplified and repeated citizens. repeated by british citizens. now from this now it doesn't sound from this story like there was much actual spying going on. it sounds like it was basically media monitoring, tweets, monitoring, not reading tweets, reading, published articles, compiling information . compiling that information. that's not the same thing as, you tapping phones, having you know, tapping phones, having a van outside someone's house. but that we know of. but well, not that we know of. well, not that know. but we well, not that we know. but we can't. go the 77th can't. we can't go down the 77th brigade on stuff that we brigade based on stuff that we don't know. media monitoring don't know. but media monitoring is particularly sinister is not a particularly sinister activity it's stuff that activity. it's all stuff that these people saying these people were saying publicly. that the publicly. the idea that the government to government should want to know what saying doesn't what they're saying doesn't strike me as as unreasonable . strike me as as unreasonable. but yeah, you see what you're saying, john? don't wash with me because you're saying all this is an outrageous attack on our , is an outrageous attack on our, you know, our boys, our men, whatever the armed forces. i think it's actually an outrageous attack on people's liberties, free speech in this country, this whole covid excuse was a excuse, if you ask me, for

lots of it, to control people saying disinformation . you saying disinformation. you should be able to challenge debate and discourse and critique policy , especially when critique policy, especially when that policy restricts you all your own liberties to the point where you cannot leave your house for more than a number of minutes per day, as defined by the government when it's battering the economy , you battering the economy, you absolutely should be able to question and query that. and what happens is that the moment you stick your head above the parapet and then have the audacity to query some of the decisions, you're slammed down as a conspiracy theorist, you're chopped off social media. you see a whole channels locked out, having accounts withdrawn . that having accounts withdrawn. that is what i think is outrageous that that so i don't think my good friend toby young and my colleague peter hitchens and my mate david davis have been depnved mate david davis have been deprived of platforms to express the views on. they have not been

censored. yes, i do myself have not they've not been deprived of platforms. he's been he's been dewbs& co. he's been right. it's in the papers. he's not been banned from the papers. references it in his own column. i think this weekend about how quickly was removed quickly he was removed from traditional broadcasting platforms because he dared to have the audacity to query lockdowns. you've had people like maajid nawaz, which was kicked off . he's mentioned as kicked off. he's mentioned as a conspiracy theorist what? well, but this is riot people call people conspiracy theories . people conspiracy theories. well, this is what happens is months down the line, you then realise that what was actually being said and declared a conspiracy theory is actually guess what, awkwardly it turned out to be true after all. well i mean, basically people's lives were saved and the economy was saved by the actions of the government. i do think that i do think boris was so desperate, no dice. he wasn't we've not had a recession. no, we didn't have a recession. no, we didn't have a recession the despite recession despite the despite lockdown and businesses were kept kept in, kept and

kept and were kept in, kept and kept and were kept in, kept and kept in business. the thing is, i can believe that boris johnson demanded dossier after dossier on people who have been critical of him. and there's good reasons of him. and there's good reasons of bad reasons. the good reason is to the lines is you need to know the lines that are being taken in a debate where the government want to shape because you want shape a debate because you want pubuc shape a debate because you want public for public opinion support. you for the don't believe the lockdown and don't believe i don't this whistle don't believe this whistle blower that the 77 brigade were doing that. do believe that. doing that. i do believe that. i do. i believe that. i do do. i do believe that. i do believe there's media monitoring do. i do believe that. i do beliifollowing; media monitoring do. i do believe that. i do beliifollowing what ia monitoring do. i do believe that. i do beliifollowing what ia moniwere] and following what people were saying lines to make sure saying in the lines to make sure there lines to respond to there were lines to respond to it. sure that boris it. and i'm sure that boris wanted people looked up wanted some people looked up because politicians do because senior politicians do have these powers. have access to these powers. sometimes go something to go look what saying, look at what they're saying, what saying. but i don't what they're saying. but i don't i don't believe that david davis or hitchens or two of the or peter hitchens or two of the young gagged any young have been gagged or any other of the other critics of the of the government policy. they government policy. were they were what said, were wrong in what they said, but they weren't gagged. well, if out there that if you anyone out there that dared to query these dared to query some of these policies , you will know policies, you will know yourself. gave me to tell you. you will know all the things that was going on with social

media. your accounts were restricted, said people were shut about you know, we've shut up about you know, we've had so much interference and stifling of those views of people that had the audacity to query things. and what i found fascinating, henry , is how fascinating, henry, is how accepting so many people to this day still are of the i think it was outrageous some of the stuff that went on. and i hope that people stand up and say, never , people stand up and say, never, ever again what there's so many people that were absolutely okay and cool with it . oh, yeah. people that were absolutely okay and cool with it. oh, yeah. but i mean, i think one of the things that the pandemic should have taught people beyond reasonable doubt is that fundamentally the uk not fundamentally the uk is not a libertarian nation. right? the biggest of biggest challenge of a hypothetical british democratic republic would finding republic would have been finding stuff the informants stuff for all of the informants to you can poll the british to do. you can poll the british pubuc to do. you can poll the british public almost anything public on almost anything and you that an you will find that an overwhelming 86, for example, support ban on support a complete ban on smoking. you have got majorities behind of behind banning lockdowns. one of my bits of my favourite ever bits of polling was in 2011 during the

riots when yougov polled what the public thought should be done the only policy which done on the only policy which didn't get support was the didn't get 50% support was the army using live ammunition. only one brits thought that one in three brits thought that live ammunition be used live ammunition should be used on so no. ultimately, on rioters, so no. ultimately, one thing that this has the pandemic has taught people, for better worse, that the uk better or worse, is that the uk is not. america is not like it doesn't have a libertarianism in its bones. and lots of people do like these policies. people will do told while do what they're told while i once never again will i have my life curtailed by that. so to the extent i always remember being told by the police i could get a bench, i was feeding get off a bench, i was feeding my newborn baby at the time and the police told me i had to move because it was an exercise the police i mean, the police police from i mean, the police went, police are mad . went, but the police are mad. well, the police got told by me on occasion. can tell you on that occasion. i can tell you anywhere . give me all your anywhere. give me all your thoughts that. what do thoughts on that. what do you make? i absolutely do believe make? so i absolutely do believe this by the way, this whistle blower by the way, john says he doesn't particularly. but i do. and i suspect that there'll be lots more this stuff coming out in

more of this stuff coming out in the weeks, months . we shall the weeks, months. we shall see. give me a thoughts gbviews@gbnews.uk . .uk is the gbviews@gbnews.uk. .uk is the email address next. oh, going to take a quick break. when i come back, i'll have some of your response to that. but i also want you to ponder whose responsibility is it to help the unemployed get back into work? is the government and if so, to how? what long? tell me how? what how long? you tell me

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight. along side me, john mcternan , along side me, john mcternan, also known as the guy that's upsetting many people on a day to day. they say , they say, to day. they say, they say, what's the matter? last week you wanted talk to taxes all and i spy wanted talk to taxes all and i spy bedrooms in our own houses and now we'll keep you in your house. yeah you say that you don't mind the army or whoever

is spying. i'm a patriot. i'm never going to deny that . well, never going to deny that. well, sorry. yeah. also john and also henry. well, we all know upsetting people say. oh, well , upsetting people say. oh, well, we got. yeah, people are happy with you. i'm also upset and people antoinette's says please please, someone tell please, please can someone tell michelle her awful lipstick michelle that her awful lipstick is a distraction and it's tacky , tacky, tacky . it's not true. , tacky, tacky. it's not true. well it was all right, actually, quite frankly. and if it's all right with you, i'll continue with it on my face. i lots of you guys by the way. thankfully, you guys by the way. thankfully, you do seem to be in my camp, which is you are a little bit concerned, to put it mildly, about this whole notion that you can be essentially spied on, have dossiers compiled against you, have your media platform shut down, your social media platform is shut down. so if you ask me, it's good to know that there's some of you out there that still retain your comments . it's good on you as well. i say. right. let's talk about people that have lost their job and trying to get back work. and trying to get back to work. shall we? because 120,000 odd

people going be given people are going to be given extra coaching try and help extra coaching to try and help them work . i'm extra coaching to try and help them work. i'm going them get back to work. i'm going to just quote straight to the chase on this. i can talk about it for a bit. let's just get straight to the point when somebody loses their job and is somebody loses theirjob and is trying to seek work, how much do you government should you think the government should have in that terms of have a hand in that in terms of the works and the department works and pensions, job coaches, pensions, etc, job coaches, benefits, etc. so. well, basically i think one of the problems we often have in this country is that the treasury hates spending money, even if it will money in the long run. will save money in the long run. now fact of unemployment is now the fact of unemployment is that pay it. we that we pay for it. we collectively for unemployed collectively pay for unemployed people through through universal credit and other and other forms of welfare. everyone who gets of welfare. so everyone who gets back is someone who's back into work is someone who's not welfare anymore , someone not on welfare anymore, someone who contributing to who is contributing tax to the economy . so i who is contributing tax to the economy. so i think who is contributing tax to the economy . so i think the who is contributing tax to the economy. so i think the big question with this policy is, is the spent going to be the money spent is going to be paid back more by dividends paid back more by the dividends of getting people off the welfare and into welfare books and back into work. case, then work. if that's the case, then this a perfectly sensible this is a perfectly sensible policy. the question to is policy. the question to me is when we'll get them the

when you say we'll get them the welfare back into welfare books and back into work, let's about is work, let's talk about is welfare how much how much welfare box. how much how much of net, if you like of a safety net, if you like a handout should there be for people that are able to work physically, mentally, whatever, able to work not working able to work but not working well. is the great well. so this is the great economic inactivity statistics . economic inactivity statistics. and you know, there's an awful lot of them in the government is very exercised about them when you drill into the numbers and you drill into the numbers and you it down, an awful lot you break it down, an awful lot of people either in of those people are either in full education you full time education or, you know, retired or know, they're retired or whatever. so the number of people think are on out of people who i think are on out of work benefits are just work benefits and are just continually not working is continually just not working is not big. they are not all that big. and they are due to the way the system is structured , given incentives and structured, given incentives and help to try and get back into work. and i think that's hard to object to because we want these people fundamentally and people working fundamentally and if to it, the answer if we refuse to it, the answer to all that would happen is they just on, stay benefits just stay on, stay on benefits and of us would be better and all of us would be better because one in the because if i was one in the country, you say, you say, oh, if they don't get work all it will happen is they'll stay on

benefits. i was running the benefits. if i was running the country it would country out of off and it would be much shorter off there be much shorter off than there is, i'll say. right. if you're physically, mentally able and capable and you done capable to get work and you done well, guess what? fund yourself. no better incentive, than no better incentive, john, than people benefits people having their benefits withdrawn them. suddenly get withdrawn to them. suddenly get work. that's what i would do . work. that's what i would do. what do you think the biggest disgrace i find in this country coming back from working in australia in 2013 was that there were food banks. what country is it where pay and benefits are so low? the people need to depend on charity to feed their children. that's the disgrace . children. that's the disgrace. this is just more punitive sanctions from a government that put too many people off benefits , punish them by removing benefits from them. there's too much destitute tuition in britain, not too much generosity in the benefit system. so you so you think that actually there should be more generosity within the benefit system. so let's just pay. benefits are too low. let's keep this as like you people can work but are not

working. let's just focus on that group for now. so if you can work and you choose not to, you think you should get more benefits, not less. then no evidence that people can work. and a choosing not to work the jobs that are offered aren't suitable. the pay is too low. there's vacancies the health there's vacancies in the health service people don't service not because people don't want in health service want to work in health service because pay low. because the pay is too low. there's police there's vacancies in police forces too forces because the pay is too low. the government has driven down driven down down pay, it's driven down benefits. people people are benefits. and people people are entitled to decent level of benefits and decent level of paying benefits and decent level of paying their work. but what is the incentive to work if you raise these benefits? i mean, we could have a conversation, but for into the for some reasons walk into the nuts bolts. but principle, nuts and bolts. but principle, if raise the benefits , what if you raise the benefits, what is incentive to people that is your incentive to people that are able to work? so actually go work. if i i can earn let's work. if i if i can earn let's just say i'm going to be silly with my figures. they told me but if i can earn, say , £100 a but if i can earn, say, £100 a month sitting on my backside, not then i go not working, and then i can go to and i can get 120 quid to work and i can get 120 quid a month. why am i going to go to work if you've just raised my

benefits, i might well stay benefits, i might as well stay at people. good people go at home people. good people go to work homeless reasons to work for. homeless reasons for go to work for community. they go to work for community. they go to work for self, self—respect . they for self, for self—respect. they go to work to provide for their families. there's not a lot of people there who need to be people out there who need to be harassed into work. the problem is the quality of jobs that people are offered, the that people are offered, the pay that people are offered, the pay that people offered, the people are offered, and the influx ability its ability to influx ability of its ability to fit their fact for fit with their needs fact for their families. so fit with their needs fact for theirfamilies. so i just fit with their needs fact for their families. so i just don't think choice is as saying think the choice is as saying between and work and between benefits and work and people are going to live on benefits. people don't do that. people i know people want the respect. i know people was what spent my people i was what i spent my teenage years . i spent teenage years. i spent my teenage years. i spent my teenage years. i spent my teenage years in and around the councillors. they are telling a story often. my then boyfriend was in and out of prison like a year so many around year ago. so many people around the were just what i well, i won't say what i calling but they were people that were happy to live on when to live on benefits when i decided i was going to get a job, i looked daft because job, i got looked daft because people be like, well, why people would be like, well, why would you go ? why half of all would you go? why half of all the children being brought up in

poverty in the uk at the moment i've got working parents, something is completely broken the system it is not going the system and it is not going to be fixed more, more to be fixed by more, more punitive approach to 120,000 people who are claiming benefits . very quickly, do you think, henry , benefits should be henry, benefits should be increased on a case by on a case by case basis? i think the more interesting question, i take a slightly more cynical view than john, i think, is that you need to be much careful with the to be much more careful with the taper that it always pays to taper so that it always pays to work. that was something universal credit originally universal credit was originally going also, you going to do. and also, you should that should acknowledge that some people, in a long people, if you've been in a long term class, household work term work class, household work can intimidating. can seem intimidating. you don't know write a cv and know how to write a cv and that's stuff like this can that's what stuff like this can really help with. yeah, they're off. are i think there off. there are i think there probably are people who genuinely want work, genuinely don't want to work, but think there are vast but i don't think there are vast number cases. i think if number of cases. and i think if there are cases where people just don't experience of just don't have experience of work, they have grown up in a work, they have grown up in a work household can work less household and we can help work through help them get into work through a like this. it's worth a program like this. it's worth doing. yeah, you see. but you hit the that

hit the nail on the head that when have run off when you say people have run off in plus household, in a work plus household, i wouldn't wouldn't have wouldn't offer, i wouldn't have it. are physically and it. if you are physically and mentally work, i do mentally able to work, i do believe that you be believe that you should be working don't to. working if you don't want to. well what can find for well what you can find for yourself be on your yourself and be on your own. that would no such thing as a that would be no such thing as a generation no work less household. generation no work less householrbit harsh in my old getting a bit harsh in my old age. give me your thoughts. gb views gbnews.uk. when views that gbnews.uk. when we come i want your come back, i want to know your response this. i can see my response to this. i can see my inboxis response to this. i can see my inbox is fire, i'll have inbox is on fire, so i'll have some your but get some of your thoughts. but get this, hundred and 60 million quid, is the amount quid, guys, that's is the amount of that was spent on the of money that was spent on the so—called for asylum so—called aspen cars for asylum seekers. one my panel, at seekers. one of my panel, at least let you guess who says it's outrage . it's because it's it's outrage. it's because it's not . goodness me, if i not enough. goodness me, if i had bought this desk by the end of the day, i don't know what i'll they went to .

hi, they're michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company right through until 7:00 this evening alongside me . i've got evening alongside me. i've got john mccain on the political strategist and a former adviser to tony blair and henry hill, the deputy editor of conservativehome, which been talking about people getting into work . talking about people getting into work. linda talking about people getting into work . linda says it's not into work. linda says it's not that michelle, i am 65 and my husband is 64. who would want us ask linda? i think it's a shame. i think lots of people , david, i think lots of people, david, for example, he's got a chance at michelle. i'm 62 and i went back to work. i do gardening work. i needed a bit more money. so off he went. and now he a gardener . good so off he went. and now he a gardener. good on you . i'll tell gardener. good on you. i'll tell you who, by the way, has a lot of people i seem to notice anyway. shops like being q when you go in there, those guys, they like fountain of all knowledge, aren't they? what they don't know about diy isn't worth knowing. so i do think there are opportunities , but there are opportunities, but maybe i'm living in cuckoo land from show that you will be quick

to tell me. right, let's talk asylum seekers. shall we get this? asylum seekers. shall we get this ? £160 billion in payments this? £160 billion in payments through a government debit card system? this is the aspen card. lots of you get in touch with me and tell me about these things. but older than £60 million in a year. but older than £60 million in a year . the but older than £60 million in a year. the figure but older than £60 million in a year . the figure that way i say year. the figure that way i say way course you may taxpayers have spent what do you make to this henry hill? i said earlier that the trick that the treasury hates spending money to save money. and i think ultimately this story another example this story is another example because why asylum because why why are asylum seekers so expensive to keep in this country? why do keep this country? why do we keep having hotels? why do we having to find hotels? why do we keep having to issue them cards? it's haven't invested it's because we haven't invested in proper extent of processing in a proper extent of processing centres where can be kept centres where they can be kept residentially and have their needs right so needs met centrally. right so this giving them ten was it was something not very much money a week. i think it's about £40 a week. i think it's about £40 a week or something. it's not it's just not a vast amount of money. and if you want to deal with the actual problem in terms of the headune actual problem in terms of the headline one, you need headline numbers, one, you need to the number

to bring down the number of people staying people coming here and staying on to you need to on the estate to you need to shorten amount time that shorten the amount of time that they within the system, they stay within the system, either increasing processing either by increasing processing or increasing deportation or both . or you could allow them to both. or you could allow them to work so that they could support themselves. if you're themselves. but if you're not going of those things going to do any of those things well, if you're going to keep them basically limbo with them basically in limbo with slow processing, slow deportations, fundamental deportations, you do fundamental . need these people . we need to give these people the means to live. and that's what this is serious about, stopping these boat crossings. and i think it definitely wants to i think the challenge is how do you do it? because ultimately you can't stop leaving. you can't stop them leaving france to come. well, i mean well, i mean, the french could stop them leaving france. unless leaving france. we can't unless you go and occupy the you want to go and occupy the coast. have dual patrols now. coast. we have dual patrols now. we send tens of we spend we send tens of millions of pounds over to the front for them to stop it . so front for them to stop it. so they should be stepping up and stopping we have dual stopping more. we have dual patrols of patrols now that started. so of course we can stop. but if you intercept them once on side intercept them once on our side of the then can't

of the channel, then they can't be returned. france. currently, france should intercept them . france should intercept them. they've even got on these dinghies. it's not dinghies. sure, but it's not within the gift of the government make the french government to make the french naval effective. naval patrols more effective. right. what right. so the problem is what you get here. you do with them once get here. once get here, we're under once they get here, we're under no obligation bring in. no obligation to bring them in. you to drown. you can't leave them to drown. they by our they get rescued by our coastguard, rightly. and coastguard, quite rightly. and once in country, once they're in the country, you have this i'm have to pay for them. this i'm really does wash really sorry. this does not wash with me. you're saying, henry saying it's not within our government's gift basically, government's gift. basically, tell stop the well tell the french to stop the well causes if we're going to give tens pounds to tens of millions of pounds to the french, then surely this is conditions attached to it. you know, heaven forbid that you have some kind of targets or whatever linked to this. and if you're not stopping these boats, you're not stopping these boats, you don't get this money. it seems to we give millions of seems to me we give millions of pounds everywhere absolutely pounds everywhere for absolutely a very minimal outcome. anyway, this whole aspin card , let me this whole aspin card, let me guess, you're going to tell me that they should be getting probably three times as much than they currently get or there or thereabouts. this is just it's disgracefully amount it's a disgracefully low amount

. the people ge t £40, $0.85. . the people get £40, $0.85. thatis . the people get £40, $0.85. that is less than . the people get £40, $0.85. that is less tha n £6 a day to that is less than £6 a day to feed. and clothe yourself. that is a disgrace. that shouldn't be happening in our country. 80% of people who apply for asylum get granted asylum. so we'll be keeping people in poverty who are going to be living in britain. they should be allowed to work. they should be allowed to work. they should be allowed to and they should be processed much the average civil much faster. the average civil servant who dealing with asylum cases with 13 cases a week , one cases with 13 cases a week, one three cases a week, that's the productivity issue, like going sort that out. but people should mean we should not be discussing this. we should not be attacking asylum seekers and refugees. they get a pitifully low amount of money. they're in poverty and they're only kept afloat by all they're only kept afloat by all the church communities across the church communities across the country who give so much support food, money, support to asylum seekers . if it wasn't for asylum seekers. if it wasn't for our churches across the country, a loss of these people would actually be completely destitute. it's a disgrace, right ? well, first and foremost,

right? well, first and foremost, nobody is making these people come here . they're choosing to come here. they're choosing to come, says are that also driving people here? so are the taliban. well isis are pushing people. yes albania, the people from syria, afghanistan , asylum syria, afghanistan, asylum seekers come from a range of countries. so you're telling me with a straight face that you think these albanian men are coming here because ice is told them to 70, some 70, 78% of the albanian refugees and asylum seekers get asylum when they come here. but i'm saying that let me i'm saying i'm saying that syria. syria syrian refugees, we've got a large number of them, kurdish refugees after isil. we've got afghan refugees who have betrayed by our government bringing out pets, dogs and cats rather than actual people who need to be brought out of afghanistan to save their lives. i would agree with you in terms of actually when you see those people in afghan, i don't think we've done enough help those to enough to help those people, to help of afghanistan help get them out of afghanistan under rules. think we

under taliban rules. i think we should do i completely agree with on we got there. with you on how we got there. in the do agree with you on the end. i do agree with you on something. it was a long time coming, but we got there. however think if you were however i do think if you were to suspect, you know to take i suspect, but you know yeah. respectfully think yeah. respectfully i think you're tripe you're talking absolute tripe when things when it comes to things like saying is appalling. saying that this is appalling. we not we should be spending more, not less, be absolutely clear, less, to be absolutely clear, these people largely are enforced . our hotels, they do enforced. our hotels, they do get they're not enforced . hotels get they're not enforced. hotels they're not enforced. our hotel they're not enforced. our hotel they are there in beautiful or boutique hotels in many places. i featured some of the hotels in here. i know some hotels in and around where i'm from that are very nice hotels , wedding venues very nice hotels, wedding venues and people have at the wedding cancelled it . the hotels are so cancelled it. the hotels are so beautiful the people want to marry there this is ridiculous. and also when you say about food , they get their food provided no , they don't. this this this no, they don't. this this this payment is to people who do not get full bed and board. they're not in residential settings like this one near me. local impact and they're not in residential

settings where they get the food provided the food is not appropriate when it's provided. but are people have to but these are people who have to pay- but these are people who have to pay. people to feed, pay. these are people to feed, these are people and these are people to feed and clothe themselves during the whole when civil whole long period when civil servants failing to decide servants are failing to decide on their cases. and 80% of people get approved for first time run, and a two thirds of people who get turned down the first get approval a second first time get approval a second time, is broken in the time, something is broken in the system. probably something is broken. relationship with broken. our relationship with france, can't do deal france, we can't do a deal with france. deal france. we should do a deal with france, is speed up france, which is speed up reprocessing and the small number thank goodness reprocessing and the small nurmer thank goodness reprocessing and the small nurmer i'm thank goodness reprocessing and the small nurmer i'm tharout)odness reprocessing and the small nurmer i'm tharout ofiness for me that i'm almost out of time because i i've got steam coming out my eyes. ladies and gentlemen, you can't save. i assure it's that. i'll tell assure you it's that. i'll tell you what's wrong this you what's wrong with this country. gooders country. too many do gooders constantly blaming this country for the problems which really are ours. imagine what he's been doing better. that's all i've got time for. do have to wrap got time for. i do have to wrap it up. oh i think i need to lay down now in dark room . henry. down now in dark room. henry. john, thank you for your company tonight. thank you. home i tell

you, ladies and gents, sometime i think the world has gone mad. i'll see you tomorrow . it's i'll see you tomorrow. it's aidan mcgivern here with the latest forecast from the met office. a band of rain is moving south over the next 24 hours with showers following . and for with showers following. and for northern parts of the uk , the northern parts of the uk, the winds are really picking up . an winds are really picking up. an area of low pressure at the moment is affecting our weather. that's icy lane. so that's pushing into icy lane. so it's far from the uk , but it's quite far from the uk, but it's quite far from the uk, but it dangling a number of it is dangling a number of weather in the north weather fronts in from the north and fronts are through the and those fronts are through the evening setting , and those fronts are through the evening setting, sending some wet weather into scotland , wet weather into scotland, northern england, north wales and northern ireland. the rain popping and northern ireland. the rain popping for as it popping up for a time as it pushes south during the late evening and early hours of tuesday. but by the time it pushes into central areas, it is starting to ease again. and to the south, clear spells with in some spots a touch of frost first thing, but otherwise four or five celsius to the north of the front. it's actually increasingly windy with showers into scotland northern ireland and northern england . now the

and northern england. now the rain in the south really peters out during the morning and clears away by lunchtime. so not much to that. and then sunny spells returning with highs of 11 or 12 celsius. feeling cold, though, in scotland, northern ireland, england, 5 to 8 degrees with a strengthening cold enough for some snow above 400 metres across central and northern scotland and for central and northern scotland it turns even windier on tuesday nights with the risk of gales and six or 70 mile per hour wind gusts across both coasts of northern scotland , especially orkney, north of the mainland and lowest risk of disruption , those winds, but disruption, those winds, but still some be showers across scotland , northern ireland and scotland, northern ireland and northern england through the night , drier northern england through the night, drier and clearer further south. but it's enough of a breeze prevent a frost. and breeze to prevent a frost. and then bright day on wednesday then a bright day on wednesday in whilst northern in the south, whilst northern england, northern ireland, scotland sees persistent rain at times and in the far north of scotland after that, very windy start to the day, the winds do ease, the showers become fewer and further between some

sunshine reappearing, cloudy skies all of us. on thursday skies for all of us. on thursday and milder .

what it was supposed to be. the big day for the nhs for our prime minister, rishi sunak. but of course everything's been dominated today by nadhim zahawi . the pm says he did decide . . the pm says he did decide. sibley will debate tonight . has sibley will debate tonight. has he actually got a. we show an exclusive interview with the boss of cuadrilla he may well sue the government over its u—turn on fracking policy in the nonh u—turn on fracking policy in the north of england. and joining me on talking points the man behind the english classic rise of the foot soldier andrew loveday joins me on talking points. but before all of that let's get the