this is dewbs& c0 the show where this is dewbs& co the show where we'll get into some of the things that have got you talking now, 100 days. that is a long time , isn't it.7 but it is a time, isn't it.7 but it is a lifetime when it comes to politics. and today is rishi sunak's 100th anniversary. politics. and today is rishi sunak's100th anniversary. how is he doing? you tell me. and boom. and i mean bumper profits for shell announced today . it for shell announced today. it has got all the right people shouting that we need to tax them more. 75% though if you calculate it, it is the rate that they should be paying on things that are profits that are applicable . how much more do you

applicable. how much more do you want them to pay? and this whole obsession when it comes to ticking boxes so as to make sure that we've got diverse workforces, is it going a little bit too far at the expense of, let's face it, quality ? i would let's face it, quality? i would hare i have to be honest, to be recruited just because i take a box. would you like it, though? would it make you feel good that you shoehorn yourself in? perhaps not on merits and perhaps not on your merits and homelessness. how on earth do we solve this? i'll have all of that and more. but first, let's bnng that and more. but first, let's bring ourselves up to speed with tonight's latest headlines . tonight's latest headlines. thank you, michelle. good evening to you. and our top story. lancashire police say they've locate a potential new witness in the search for nicola bullae . that's after they bullae. that's after they released an image of a woman who was seen in the area where the mother of two disappeared. she went missing last friday in st michaels on wa, washed out walking her dog as part of the

hunt. divers are still searching the nearby river. well, also in the nearby river. well, also in the news today, the bank of england has raised its base rates from three and a half to 4. that's the 10th consecutive increase in a row, adding that inflation has begun to fall. it also says the uk is set to enter recession this year, but stresses economic downturn could be shorter and less severe than previously expected . the previously expected. the chancellor, jeremy hunt , chancellor, jeremy hunt, supports the bank of england's decision , but we recognise it is decision, but we recognise it is very difficult for families , very difficult for families, businesses up and down the country when interest rates go up , but much harder for them up, but much harder for them would be if we didn't take decisive steps to bring down inflation. and that's why the bank of england is absolutely right to do what they've done today. right to do what they've done today . and we in the government today. and we in the government must make sure we support them by what i do in the budget to make sure that we make it easier , not harder for them to do what we all want to do, which is to halve inflation. well, the shadow chancellor, rachel reeves , believes the central bank's

decision was correct, even if it means more pressure on households. i know that families are going to be very concerned about another increase in interest rates, which is going to put more pressure, particularly on people with mortgages already before this interest rate rise. we know that for million people coming off, fixed rate deals are on track deals who on average are going to see mortgage payments go up by two and a half thousand pounds a year. so a very difficult time for people. the boss of british gas owner centrica says he is horrified to hear about contractors for the company who've broken into customers homes to fit energy metres. his comments came shortly after the energy regulator of germany's it was launching an urgent investigation . it follows investigation. it follows a times sting in which an undercoverjournal times sting in which an undercover journal listed company debt collectors who reportedly entered the homes of vulnerable people to force fit pre—payment metres . energy and pre—payment metres. energy and climate minister graham stewart says it's appalling and isn't

good enough . my brought in all good enough. my brought in all the suppliers last week to talk about how we better look after vulnerable people because there are clear rules and they have obviously not been followed and therefore i need the regulator , therefore i need the regulator, ineed therefore i need the regulator, i need the companies to do the right thing by people who are in the most difficult of circumstances and have been treated on this evidence appallingly. treated on this evidence appallingly . meanwhile, shell appallingly. meanwhile, shell says its profits have increased by more than 53, with earnings of more than by more than 53, with earnings of more tha n £68 billion last of more than £68 billion last yeah of more than £68 billion last year. it's the company's highest profit and its 115 year history. the energy giant has benefited from soaring oil prices due to russia's invasion of ukraine. a downing street spokesman has said the prime minister absolutely understands people's anger over shell's record profits at a time of soaring household energy bills. the shadow climate change secretary

admitted . ban says the admitted. ban says the government needs to step up. people look at the shell profits. they are sick and tired of the way this country is being run. we don't have a proper windfall tax on companies like shell. we have millions of people struggling to pay their energy bills and we have the prospect of energy bills going up at all. a 40% in april. that's why labour would have a proper windfall tax on companies like shell to stop bills rising again in april and end the pre—payment metre penalty that millions of people are paying . millions of people are paying. manchester united footballer mason greenwood has had all charges against him dropped. the 21 year old forward faced allegations of attempted rape , allegations of attempted rape, controlling and coercive behaviour and assault . greater behaviour and assault. greater manchester police said criminal proceedings have been discontinued by the crown prosecution service . greenwood prosecution service. greenwood has been suspended by united since news of his arrest in january last year. since news of his arrest in january last year . an january last year. an independent inquiry into the

1998 over bombing has been ordered by the northern ireland secretary. the announcement follows long running legal action brought by michael gallagher, whose son aidan was killed in the real ira bombing. 29 people died in the explosion in county tyrone. hundreds more injured and a former soldier has been given a three year suspended sentence for shooting a man in the back at an army checkpoint in northern ireland 35 years ago. in november, david holdom was convicted of the manslaughter of 23 year old aidan mccann , s.p. in 1988. aidan mccann, s.p. in 1988. holden was the first veteran to be found guilty of a historical offence in northern ireland since the good friday agreement . that's the latest news you're up to date on tv, online and dab, plus radio with gb news news throughout the evening. but first, let's get back to dewbs& co .

co. thanks for that, polly . i've co. thanks for that, polly. i've just got a lovely email about you, polly, from judy. she says, can i just say how brilliant i think polly is at reading the new is ? she goes on about your new is? she goes on about your accent, your inflexion and she says, polly, that she is very impressed with you . good. and i impressed with you. good. and i see melanie from judy . i am see melanie from judy. i am michelle dewberry . of course, michelle dewberry. of course, i'm keeping you company and so 7:00 this evening alongside me, i've got the political consultant, alex dean . and i'm consultant, alex dean. and i'm boustani, the founder of novara media. welcome, gents . you guys media. welcome, gents. you guys , you never let me down. you guys at home do you? talking about my . well, i was just about my. well, i was just about, say, my outfit , but about, say, my outfit, but people are talking about my accent as well. tonight's lee. you say that i looked like a chef wrong tonight. some people might think that i'd planned that with a chevron, of course, and oil and gas company. and i want to talk to you about oil and gas, whether or not we should have more windfall taxes. alas i really didn't plan it

whatsoever. it's accidental. whatsoever. it's all accidental. someone look like a someone else says i look like a buyer so know what buyer of, so i don't know what you yourself with. i dread you wash yourself with. i dread to think and i'll leave it there. i want your thoughts on everything. topics. everything. tonight's my topics. homelessness. we fix this homelessness. how do we fix this issue? so some would say simple. just get on a dinghy and in a way go. but beyond that, these rough sleepers that we have in our and cities across the our towns and cities across the land, answer? many land, what is the answer? many of of course, i'd ask, so of them, of course, i'd ask, so i don't want the help when they're offered it. so what do you do about it? i also want to talk you about windfall talk to you about windfall taxes. bumper profits. taxes. shell's bumper profits. should more? if should we tax them more? and if so, much more ? 75% is one of so, how much more? 75% is one of the tax rates that's been appued the tax rates that's been applied to relevant profits with them. how far do we go? 90, 95. i want your thoughts on that. but first stop, 100 days as our long rishi sunak has been in charge of this country . and what charge of this country. and what do you make of that 100 days? is it been positive in your eyes? i mean, we've had it all going on, haven't we? we've had two scandals nadhim zahawi scandals around nadhim zahawi with had you times,

with tax. we've had you times, we've had bullying allegations against people in his office , against people in his office, you name it. do you think it's been a positive 100 days, alec? oh, i do. let's start with a positive of the conservative party, admittedly of a low base . i think he's doing rather better than his predecessor, right. he's smashed her record for start beating beating more than long. so that's my than twice as long. so that's my starting point. secondly and more there's doubt more seriously, there's no doubt that brought a sense that he has brought a sense of serious ness stability to serious ness and stability to the office that he holds. the great office that he holds. the number thing, if he the number one thing, if he hadnt the number one thing, if he hadn't this nothing hadn't got this done, nothing else have he else would have mattered. he needed financial needed to reassure financial markets reassure the world markets and reassure the world of that the uk was of finance that the uk was a serious place and was a place that they could trust . broadly that they could trust. broadly speaking, he's done that . you speaking, he's done that. you know, the pound is basically back to fact a bit better back to where fact a bit better than it would been for than it would have been for trust. are back to where trust. gilts are back to where they they ought be. and he's they they ought to be. and he's got a serious economic plan. so that's thing. but the that's my second thing. but the third by which anyone third thing by which anyone in politics judge politics will always judge a leader is, do you think they're going election going to win the next election or i think that the or not? and i think that the conservative far more

conservative party is far more a bit far more likely to do well at the next election than current opinion polls would suggest, at least one of these reasons i think i read will agree with me. my first point is that keir starmer is not a transformative inspiration or he's not leader. all right . transformative inspiration or he's not leader. all right. he's certainly not a player already . certainly not a player already. indeed. on the other hand, he's not a man of the traditional left can rally people left that can rally people around of issues that around the kinds of issues that have got people out on strike at the moment. he's not. he's betwixt nor betwixt now. the betwixt nor between really neither one between is really neither one thing the other. an thing nor the other. and in an election, the end, you come election, in the end, you come down it. you say, i'm not for down to it. you say, i'm not for this side or for that side. and faced the alternative, i faced with the alternative, i think as well. think sunak as well. second point polls, we are point in opinion polls, we are basically and a lot basically discounting and a lot of the studies don't knows. so the conservative party's got a huge people to to huge number of people to try to reach boundary change is reach out to. boundary change is yet will favour yet to come, which will favour the conservative seats the conservative party seats lost ignominious series lost in the ignominious series of to you of by elections to which you were referring your were referring in your introduction. will, generally speaking, not take anyone's great vote for granted, come back? the image for back? so i think the image for the party going back? so i think the image for the the party going

back? so i think the image for the the next party going back? so i think the image for the the next election' going back? so i think the image for the the next election and ng back? so i think the image for the the next election and polls into the next election and polls are always anyway as you are always narrow anyway as you get towards is far get closer in towards it, is far better. for those reasons better. so for those reasons i think it's been good hundred think it's been a good hundred days. how many marks out of ten would you give him so far his would you give him so far in his first two days recover from would you give him so far in his first tv he days recover from would you give him so far in his first tv he arrived? acover from would you give him so far in his first tv he arrived? at iver from would you give him so far in his first tv he arrived? at ten from would you give him so far in his first tv he arrived? at ten out] would you give him so far in his first tv he arrived? at ten out of where he arrived? at ten out of ten, maybe six, ten out of what he had to what he had to overcome and challenges he's overcome and the challenges he's had that you've had to deal with that you've been about. don't been talking about. i don't think i don't i can't think of another person in the party right have written right now who would have written those as well. blimey, those bumps as well. blimey, ten out a very and by the out of ten is a very and by the way, i didn't vote for him by the time. right. so just that's my position. he gives ten my position. he gives him a ten out of do you think that's out of ten. do you think that's reasonable? very reasonable? alex is very persuasive. you know, i heard a lot. i thought these aren't arguments. you often that arguments. you often hear that sunak's always sunak's doing well. it's always doing buy the stability doing well. i buy the stability argument. i mean, that's incontrovertible, but we're talking politics. have talking about politics. we have to at polling. have to to look at polling. we have to talk the next general talk about the next general election. just election. the tories aren't just five, points behind five, ten, even 15 points behind some up in 2025 points some polls, up in 2025 points behind you on on was behind my you on on on sunak was his job really in 2023 was just to get the tories hovering

around thirties and like around the low thirties and like you in an election you you say in an election year you can that that hasn't can close that that hasn't happened. that sense of happened. so that sense of stability which he clearly has brought to the role, hasn't fed through now, the through to polls. now, the general way general election is a long way off i agree with alex. i off and i agree with alex. i think that's always will overachieve compared to where polls i think polls are presently. but i think that gives labour decent that still gives labour a decent majority the fact majority and i think the fact that got a 100 days of that you've got a 100 days of him in office and after that 100 days, normally people say i'll be for 100 days me be in for 100 days and judge me off those hundred days. he's coming 100 days saying coming in after 100 days saying i'm promises. now i'm making some promises. now to conclude, say have conclude, alex would say we have to stability first to the stability thing first i buy that but there are no real accomplishments there. and i think people who probably think intuitively look, this chap's been three months been there for three months and he's talking. but he's still talking. yeah, but here pledges didn't. and here is five pledges didn't. and one them was wanted to one of them was they wanted to halve inflation. so would halve inflation. so people would look say, we're not look at that and say, we're not saying his work, but saying it is his work, but inflation is coming down. it's going in the right direction. it was out about wasn't was out about a day, wasn't talking about small it's talking about it. small it's planned. i don't believe planned. i mean, i don't believe that you'll actually achieve anything that. that's anything on that. but that's by the would say

the by. so some people would say that he is making progress, is achieving positive things. would you out of ten? he you give him one out of ten? he says out of ten, which says ten out of ten, which i think is a little extreme. quickly, i'd say four out of ten. but i would i'd look what's the been the last week, two the news been the last week, two weeks going to have weeks we're going to have lower economic in this economic growth in russia this yeah economic growth in russia this year. we've got interest rate rise. no, these projects, of rise. say no, these projects, of course, the imf, of course, could it could be could be wrong. it could be wrong. but it's about projections right now. and you had, think, highest rate had, i think, the highest rate business insolvencies 13 business insolvencies in 13 years announced. so years was recently announced. so those reality is those those are the reality is those those are the reality is those are realities those things those are realities right of the subsequent and right now of the subsequent and he's would also nhs he's saying i would also nhs waiting etcetera waiting times etcetera etcetera we've strike we've got paramedics on strike so the actual accomplishments are few and between. are few and far between. on the insolvency , by the way, insolvency thing, by the way, obviously was protections obviously there was protections put place throughout the put in place throughout the pandemic harder pandemic that made it harder for creditors to go after things. so once those lifted, you was always to see, not always going to see, i'm not blaming for that, but blaming sunak for that, but that's reality of the that's the reality of the economy now. that's true. economy right now. that's true. your point is very well made. we basically economy basically put our economy in. stacey years of stacey for a couple of years of the coronavirus, but the unspoken truth in which of

unspoken truth in which all of the in politics the major parties in politics have complicit that have been complicit is that debt has extremely cheap and has been extremely cheap and lots businesses which lots of businesses which are effectively unproductive. zombie companies staggering any companies staggering without any real or productivity, real growth or productivity, were to keep going because were able to keep going because they could borrow almost for free. the thing that has free. and the thing that has killed them isn't just the killed them off isn't just the removal government removal of government protections over coronavirus, it's increase interest it's the increase in interest rates what any economist it's the increase in interest rates regard what any economist it's the increase in interest rates regard as|at any economist it's the increase in interest rates regard as normalityynomist it's the increase in interest rates regard as normality ,|omist it's the increase in interest rates regard as normality , the st would regard as normality, the penod would regard as normality, the period which we've become period in which we've become used to almost stagnation with companies not going out of business is a is economically unusual that's the it's the hiatus it's not the norm. the norm isn't to have ultra low interest rates. the norm is basically where we all are, even higher rates. it's higher interest rates. so it's just natural the fact that just a natural the fact that we've highest business we've got the highest business insolvencies for 13 years is completely predictable. and you mentioned on mentioned people going out on strike. ambulance crews, i think, ones that you think, were the ones that you picked up on. do you think there is an element of political game playing now it comes to playing now when it comes to these strikes? lots of them joined up, coordinated , said joined up, coordinated, said mick lynch was saying yesterday , irrespective of who we work

for, we are united. do you think it's a concerted play to try and bnng it's a concerted play to try and bring government down? well, bring the government down? well, they maximise their they try to maximise their leverage. think fundamentally leverage. i think fundamentally they're high they're all trying to out high wages. think if they had wages. i don't think if they had if these industry rates had a choice in meeting our demands, demands, having our rises demands, having our wage rises sort for sort of tied with inflation for 2022, 2023 or 2023, 2024, i think they would take that. i don't think that there is a will install a labour government and let's be real. many people within the trade union movement and aren't very fond of and the left aren't very fond of keir they're under keir starmer and they're under no about a labour no illusions about what a labour government will do. so think government will do. so i think really objective really now the primary objective here those wage increases. here is those wage increases. well course union masters well of course the union masters aren't starmer, who aren't that fond of starmer, who prefers access to the prefers to has access to the real, but they certainly prefer him over rishi sunak and the conservative party. is conservative party. my fear is the question that i'm fairly asks , which is, you know, would asks, which is, you know, would they to bring down the they prefer to bring down the government or get their demands? my government or get their demands? my in the union my thinking is in the union side, they think they do side, they think they can do both. they they're going both. they think they're going to demands met, to get their demands met, broadly do broadly speaking, and also do enough the tory party enough harm to the tory party and to ensure a change of

and sunak to ensure a change of government when they get government when they can get their way, even more. i mean, it's plain when unions are coordinating that it coordinating like this that it is political. this fight against coordinating like this that it is politicaiministerjht against coordinating like this that it is politicaiminister and gainst coordinating like this that it is politicaiminister and against the prime minister and against the prime minister and against the is simply the government is not simply there there are, of course, grievances that people are entitled indeed entitled entitled to and indeed entitled to labour. what to withdraw the labour. but what is obvious to an external observer is that this coordinated union driven by coordinated union is driven by political ambition . can ask a political ambition. can i ask a quick questions? you and you. quick questions? i you and you. because do because you're the boss, sir. do you the royal you honestly think the royal college nurses is political college of nurses is a political union under own rules union when under their own rules they go on strike or they wouldn't go on strike or undertake action undertake industrial action until the would you say until the 1990s? would you say that's a political wing that's a political left wing union? college of union? the royal college of nurses, you don't cherry pick. i was commenting on the broad picture activity , picture of union activity, including the kind of rhetoric that michelle rightly points to from some of its most prominent leaders, saying doesn't even leaders, saying it doesn't even matter in. we're matter what job you're in. we're all in effort, all united in this effort, basically the basically against the government, it. government, and that's it. i think is political. but given that you ask question about that you ask a question about the nursing union, i wonder about they about the extent to which they genuinely the best genuinely represent the best interests nurses when interests of their nurses when they and their members

they start and their members when they start an argument saying 19% pay saying they wanted 19% pay rises, 19 and then saying, well, don't worry, we're willing to negotiate and compromise. well, of course you are, because if you start at 19% in a single financial year, even if the government meet you halfway, you still being completely unreasonable. i mean . well, this unreasonable. i mean. well, this is separate topic, but i mean, is a separate topic, but i mean, they've real pay fall they've seen their real pay fall by by the end of this by well, by the end of this yean by well, by the end of this year, would have year, their real pay would have fallen to by fallen compared to 2010 by 20. so a 90% pay rise is merely saying want same living saying we want the same living standards as we had in 2010 when the tories to government. the tories came to government. that outrageous to that doesn't seem outrageous to most that it's most people. i think that it's undeliverable demand in such undeliverable to demand in such a of time with a short period of time with a workforce largest in workforce that is the largest in the country. more people the entire country. more people work the nhs than ever work for the nhs now than ever done and more people done before and more people are working in the nhs than for anyone else. you just can't deliver and scale of deliver the size and scale of increase they are talking increase that they are talking about normal financial about in any normal financial circumstances, especially given it's sword. right. circumstances, especially given it's if sword. right. circumstances, especially given it's if the sword. right. circumstances, especially given it's if the forecast,. right. circumstances, especially given it's if the forecast, which . but if the imf forecast, which i agree you, is very often agree with you, is very often corrected and wrong , the imf corrected and wrong, the imf forecasts like correct forecasts anything like correct and the contraction is going to

happen our economy. it's happen in our economy. it's going ramifications for going to have ramifications for government also government spending. but also the mean, my mom and sister the i mean, my mom and sister are as i referenced are nhs nurses as i referenced frequently , so want them to frequently, so i want them to get best deal possible. get the best deal possible. but if the nurses 19, what if you give the nurses 19, what then do you do ? because then then do you do? because then you've given the what they rcn their 19% demand and then what their 19% demand and then what the other unions are going to say. right. well they've got theirs, we want ours. so then what you're going to do is you going to have a blueprint flesh and rises for the whole and rises for what the whole of the sector. then what is the public sector. then what is the public sector. then what is the private sector going to do? they're going to hang on they're going to go. hang on a second, everyone over is second, everyone over that is getting we high getting wages. we want high rises. afford? so rises. how do you afford? so firstly, present, wages in firstly, at present, wages in the sector are about the private sector are about wage private wage increases in the private sector, double what they sector, but double what they are in pubuc sector, but double what they are in public sector. that's in the public sector. that's that's the reality about, what, 7% the private sector, it's 7% of the private sector, it's about in public about 3 to about 7% in public is about 3 to 4. significant above. so 4. so significant above. so we're talking wages, we're talking about wages, which, no wage which, by the way, no wage increases impacting increases are impacting inflation. is not inflation. this country is not pushing it's private pushing up whether it's private or what or public. there wasn't. what did we're meeting it.

did you say? we're meeting it. sorry yeah, so am. and if you look at, for instance, i think it the institute fiscal it was the institute fiscal studies, and again we studies, the ifrs, and again we can well, it's that can say, well, it's just that that's their they that's just their sums. they said if you gave every said that if you gave every pubuc said that if you gave every public sector worker this public sector worker in this country in line with country a pay rise in line with inflation, not 19, said inflation, so not 19, they said it would cost about inflation, so not 19, they said it would cost abou t £18 billion. it would cost about £18 billion. so the government says it would cost effect of cost 25 billion. the effect of saying 18 billion billionaires in alone increase in this country alone increase their more than 100 their net worth by more than 100 billion pandemic. so billion during the pandemic. so this is a very bad situation for the country. it's horrific the country. it's a horrific thing through. ten, 11% thing to go through. ten, 11% inflation. so have to inflation. and so we have to make in society. do we make a choice in society. do we want that? the burden of that crisis to fall on those particular sectors of the labour market, who we really depend on? teachers, nurses , firefighters teachers, nurses, firefighters and i think given the background of austerity preceding all of this, i think the argument is very, very compelling to say, no, actually that wage rises should be in with should be in line with inflation. so billionaires from that , more inflation. so billionaires from that, more less even though that, more or less even though they took up a surplus, 28% of they took up a surplus, 28% of the tax base already, and you'd rather they than left. rather they stayed than left. but right, let's accept your

but all right, let's accept your your premise on what you would want do. let's take the want to do. let's take the comparison you between comparison you make between private indeed an private and public and indeed an example chose to example that you chose to volunteer about teachers, volunteer about, about teachers, both teachers. both by parents, teachers. i admire profession greatly. i admire the profession greatly. i want people into the want good people to go into the teaching profession. it's not just , but if you do just about salary, but if you do look salary, we pay around look at salary, we pay around the top end of every country in europe and they work around the lowest number of hours of teachers in europe. and our spend on education is one of the highest in the whole of the oecd. but even beyond europe, we spend on education sector in this is incredibly high. this country is incredibly high. and then you consider the fact that teachers have a circa 13 week holiday and they define and benefit pension contribution from their employer of 23. anyone in the public in the private sector looks at that and thinks themselves hang on a second, do we really think you'll get you should be mentioned in the same breath as hospital cleaners . you haven't hospital cleaners. you haven't had a rise , especially after had a rise, especially after a children . and i'm just i'm children. and i'm just i'm disputing a whole number of

people on air who i've grown up with and gone into teaching. but for heaven's sake , we've had two for heaven's sake, we've had two years of education stymied effectively during coronavirus on just when children need their teachers the most . what do you teachers the most. what do you want it to strike now? most teachers want to work right. this is another reason why i say it's they're being it's political. they're being led into doing led by their unions into doing something profoundly something that is profoundly against interests of their against the interests of their customer children, customer, the children, and isn't warranted by their pay situation. can respond ? last situation. can i respond? last word to you on it like you may. yeah, i think we have to take each sector on its own merits. l, each sector on its own merits. i, for instance, not saying we have a shortage 47,000 nurses have a shortage of 47,000 nurses in now. it is the in the nhs right now. it is the is primary why so much is is primary reason why so much is going whether it's going wrong, whether it's ambulance times any ambulance waiting times or any waiting is the primary waiting times. it is the primary reason lack of nurses, reason that lack of nurses, 47,000 of them. clearly we are going struggle with going to struggle with recruitment paying recruitment if we're not paying them think that's the them more. so i think that's the first sick lay on first point. sick lay on teachers. they do get very generous pensions. true. generous pensions. that's true. and segregate the fact and i want to segregate the fact that, generous that, yes, they get the generous pensions. but the same time, pensions. but at the same time, the full by in

the patient full by 89% in a single year you've got rising mortgage got mortgage costs, you've got rising costs. and i think rising energy costs. and i think that they should be punished for negotiating. it doesn't mean you should strike while you've had different what's yours? different views. what's yours? i'll look at what you're i'll have a look at what you're saying at this. let's a saying at this. let's have a look. michael your moment of look. michael if your moment of fame, it on the screen . fame, get it on the screen. michael, you're you give michael, you're saying you give an eight out of ten when compared with the utter shambles that was johnson richard says sunak's doing all right and i believe he will deliver boats. he lose the toxic force of he must lose the toxic force of jeremy hunt in order to prosper in the polls. how important do you think it is, by the way? it's a so—called prosper in the polls, your words, not mine. i don't really i don't really pay that much attention to polls at the time. i think that they're wrong, but maybe you place more importance on them me. importance on them than me. sandy says i cannot accept sunak for what he did boris in the for what he did to boris in the way became pm. bring back way he became pm. bring back boris. our real boris. he's our real democratically elected pm. i tell you what he is probably a pain in the bottom. so rishi sunakis pain in the bottom. so rishi sunak is popping up everywhere,

isn't he ? you can't seem to get isn't he? you can't seem to get him off the when it comes him off the stage when it comes to ukraine, for example, i to ukraine, for example, says i remember sunak saying that he would support migration . now would support migration. now in the hundred of his the first hundred days of his prime that was prime minister, then that was when he was up against liz truss. is that what he said that you sort in the first you would sort out in the first hundred or was that of hundred days or was that one of his areas for the 100 his priority areas for the 100 days? can't that days? i can't remember that today. so that is why i do this thing. remember pledges when he went downing and went into downing street and i could wrong. i don't want to could be wrong. i don't want to characterise what he said. there was pledge but i don't think was a pledge but i don't think it first 100 days. look it was the first 100 days. look i'm excuses that it's i'm not making excuses that it's the of the five pledges the hardest of the five pledges he's made and it's very difficult to see how the government to make government is going to make headway rules they headway with the rules as they currently i've to currently are. yeah, i've got to say, i hold much hope. say, i don't hold out much hope. actually, i'm not sure we will see any changes. i think we'll see any changes. i think we'll see getting a lot worse see things getting a lot worse in crossing the in that situation, crossing the channel before we see getting channel before we see it getting better. all to better. if it's all going to take a quick break. when we come back, energy company, back, shell, the energy company, they record profits, they have posted record profits, bumper profits. their bumper bumper profits. their highest, in fact, and 115 year

history. are history. so many people now are shouting more. yes how shouting tax them more. yes how much although they already much more? although they already pay much more? although they already pay 75% on eligible profits, what do you want them to pay? 99 to 5, soledad. so hundred. where were on that? see you were you on that? i'll see you in 2 minutes .

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company right through till 7:00 this evening alongside me, the political consultant, alex dean , and our best, arnie, the founder of novara media. welcome back, everybody . you guys have back, everybody. you guys have been getting in touch. i'm trying to find somebody who is on the same path as alex. i've got to say, i will admit it's proving difficult. i want someone else that agrees that sunak's 100 someone else that agrees that sunak's100 days have been a ten out of ten. i can't find you at the moment, david says that sunakis the moment, david says that sunak is corrupt as the rest of them . john says while his

them. john says while his country is run by bankers and lawyers, it will never thrive. ordinary people will never, ever benefit . kevin no matter what benefit. kevin no matter what sunak does in the future , i will sunak does in the future, i will never vote tory whilst he is the leader he was prepared to destroy trust and the tories first personal ambition . lots of first personal ambition. lots of people are getting in touch with that sentiment as well, perhaps suggesting that many politicians are priorities in their personal ambitions ahead of the what's best for the country or indeed their party. keep your thoughts coming in gb views at gb news. .uk is my email address. right? let's talk shall shall we? the oil company get this. everyone is sitting comfortably . 32 is sitting comfortably. 32 billion with a b billion pounds. last year that was their profit. i got to say , i think it's their i got to say, i think it's their highest in their 115 year history . needless to say, it's history. needless to say, it's brought the whole conversation about windfall tax because we all know that so many of us are struggling with our bills. you've had stories today. i think it was british gas. it's

come out in the press now that they've been getting warrants for one of their agents, has been getting to into been getting warrants to go into people's houses when they've not paid their bills. and then you have that , £2 have profits like that, £2 billion. arron why do stand billion. arron why do you stand on this ? you know, i think it on this? you know, i think it should obviously tax to should be obviously tax to significantly higher extent. i think a business think when you've got a business which making profits which is making huge profits because and because of innovation and they're providing a new service to customers which they didn't have before, that creates more value in the market. good luck to but what we have here to them. but what we have here is which is is a business which is benefiting not attacking benefiting and i'm not attacking shell just shell for that. that's just what's the 12 what's happened in the last 12 months. the benefiting from a geopolitical cataclysm, which is the ukraine and which is the war in ukraine and which is having negative impact having a really negative impact for energy consumer . and for the uk energy consumer. and i it's a perfectly i think it's a perfectly sensible say. sensible thing to say. well, while this is happening, let's increase the tax on these unprecedented profits. you've got i mean, these are really high profits, i believe they are the third highest profits since are set to be posted by a uk business. so if the british american tobacco and vodafone so

yeah, and just to be clear, just be clear, everyone. of course these are global profits. these are not profits. they're made just in the uk. me ask one just in the uk. let me ask one quick point, though, because you say profits are going say when the profits are going up of a geopolitical up because of a geopolitical catastrophe outside of catastrophe that's outside of their control, we should increase the tax on them. you increase the tax on them. do you support reverse argument support the reverse argument then? their profits are then? so when their profits are in free fall, perhaps even in losses cases because of losses in some cases because of japan litical catastrophes outside of their control, would you agree then to give them more money a bolster to them? money as a bolster to them? i don't we need to have a don't think we need to have a general rule. i think it's quite a sensible thing to say. this is an company. people are an energy company. people are paying an energy company. people are paying for their energy. paying more for their energy. they're significant they're making significant profits. yeah, i think they should to help out the should be able to help out the energy this country energy consumer in this country because driving millions of because it's driving millions of people i don't people into penury. so i don't think need to have general think need to have a general rule. i say, if for rule. like i say, if for instance, have a business instance, you have a business making billions of making tens of billions of pounds of profit because a pounds of profit because of a new which adding new product which is adding value lives, good value in people's lives, good for them. think this is very for them. i think this is very different. last question for upbringing, alex, upbringing, not unlike alex, since rate

since 75% is the tax rate currently, would want currently, what would you want it up then ? just push it to go up to then? just push it to go up to then? just push it up to what? well, i'm i'm not i don't know what i'm not the tax and spend person of whitehall or doing the shadow cabinet sums. but i think as a principle of fairness, i think if they have higher profits then we're anti supposed say we're being anti supposed to say six ago when these six months ago when these policies being sort of policies were being sort of percolated into into percolated through into into downing it should downing street, it should clearly be higher. i think it's it seems like a sensible thing to do. and 75% my fear would be that once you start going north of 75, businesses thinking of 75, businesses start thinking about re domicile. and i look conservatives are opposed necessarily windfall taxes necessarily to windfall taxes and had them in the past and we've had them in the past under government. so it's under the government. so it's and i accept that the i mean, god, i bet they wish they hadn't handed results today as handed down the results today as a just bank puts a place as just as the bank puts up rates and so forth, up interest rates and so forth, pragmatic actually, can't pragmatic, actually, you can't help going to help but think they're going to contribute than they did contribute more than they did before. and i just you before. and i just think, you know, if they were smart, they'd have know, have started making, you know, nine voluntary payments nine figure, voluntary payments in help the country. in to try and help the country. but start making rules

but if you start making rules that you've got to pay north that say you've got to pay north of 75% of your profit businesses like this will start making decisions . not least like this will start making decisions. not least in decisions. not least bear in mind until recently this was a company was listed company that was dual listed between the netherlands and the uk and when forced to choose , uk and when forced to choose, which is not an outcome that the eu was ever expecting or wants to they chose to encourage, they chose to single in because it single list in the uk because it was seen by them as a more favourable business environment. if less if we start being a less favourable business environment, you'll that for you'll find out that for argument's you're that argument's sake you're 80, that you to 80% of nothing you push it up to 80% of nothing isn't much, whereas 75% of isn't very much, whereas 75% of a great deal is worth having. so that's the concern that i have. and i just want to make one more point about this industry. they really may not really do innovate. they may not like they innovate in like the things they innovate in the an innovation. the fracking was an innovation. people of money on people spent a lot of money on the fracking technique before people spent a lot of money on the fwere1g technique before people spent a lot of money on the fwere able:hnique before people spent a lot of money on the fwere able to ique before people spent a lot of money on the fwere able to deliverfore people spent a lot of money on the fwere able to deliver itre people spent a lot of money on the fwere able to deliver it . so they were able to deliver it. so some of the fields in the north sea were declared basically dead. they economically dead. they were economically inactive spent inactive and businesses spent hundreds of pounds hundreds of millions of pounds exploring going deeper exploring them and going deeper and finding out what you could extract there. before they became economic viable. again,

many environmentalists hate all this, the idea those this, but the idea that those companies innovate is companies don't innovate is complete. didn't that. complete. i didn't say that. i said the of this said the base of this profitability geopolitics. profitability is geopolitics. it's not because they've created some promise. yeah, but we still haven't got the nuts and bolts of it because we're saying 75. so just to be clear, in this country, normal corporation tax is about the 19% mark. as it stands at the moment. so the oil companies, they guess that it wasn't corp tax plus a 10% supplementary charge plus this 35. so so—called wind tax, as we're referring to it, so 75, they're paying versus there or thereabouts, 20% for all the businesses . and i just want to businesses. and i just want to push you on this whole concept. i because there's so many pension funds that are invested in these energy companies , i in these energy companies, i think in 2021, there was a calculation done that showed that it was about calculation done that showed that it was abou t £2,000 for that it was about £2,000 for every person in the uk was invested in these energy companies . and when you put your companies. and when you put your pensions into these organisations, it's in the

interests of the growth of those funds. all of our pensions that these companies are making as much profit paying as many dividends as possible. so wouldn't you be worried if you're damaging their profitability that you're effectively damaging the pension funds of everyone ? so i think funds of everyone? so i think the pensions argument is overstated . so i think the overstated. so i think the relationship between pensions and uk based pensions and the footsie i think is often overstated. it exists, i'll admit that. well, in 2021, i guarantee you that's not you know, it's not yesterday, but 2021 not that long and it 2021 is not that long ago and it was averag e £2,000 per person in was average £2,000 per person in terms of actual the people terms of the actual the people who are exposed what up who are exposed to what goes up and down the footsie pension and down on the footsie pension funds much smaller, funds are actually much smaller, slimmer believe in slimmer than we often believe in terms in terms of the what i terms of in terms of the what i would do with actually going back to that you walk down the high street wherever your view is odd and i might mean carlyle or bournemouth aberystwyth or bournemouth or aberystwyth walk high street, go walk down the high street, go into say can the into business, say what can the government to help you? government do to help you? i think most of them would say, you know what, people just have

money spend now, cuts money to spend right now, cuts of bit like we have in of 80, a bit like we have in 2008 the gordon brown 2008 nine was the gordon brown government it 5% just for government cut it by 5% just for six a year. i think six months a year. i think increasing a windfall tax to pay for would be for some of that would be fantastic for the uk economy, fantastic for the uk economy, fantastic blue collar brits fantastic for blue collar brits who show. it would who watch this show. it would really help i think we really help them and i think we go into abstraction about or go off into abstraction about or should taxed as much? should profits be taxed as much? and printing money. and so on. shell printing money. right now, lots of people are struggling and the cause for both is the same. the war in ukraine. so i think it's a sensible policy. i'm not saying as a general rule, we should tax them until the pips squeak. i'm not saying a good surtax on not saying that a good surtax on the socialists. saying the socialists. i'm not saying that. i'm saying in this particular incident with regards to with in to energy, with the war in ukraine, think sensible ukraine, i think it's sensible to to pay for tax cuts to be able to pay for tax cuts elsewhere to help stimulate the economy expense shell. economy at the expense of shell. the people on the the reason that people on the left put a number on it. left won't put a number on it. certainly. i watched your package interest and ed package with interest and ed miliband is proposing policy miliband is proposing the policy didn't number on it is didn't put a number on it is much more responsibility him much more responsibility on him than on the panel than put it out on the panel today how much

today to actually say how much it be right. ed miliband it would be right. ed miliband wouldn't how much it was wouldn't say how much it was going the reason they going to be. the reason they don't is that once they start saying you then work out saying that you then work out the that what the delta, that between what they currently and what they currently pay and what labour going to labour says, they're going to gain opposed risk of gain as opposed to the risk of these saying, right, these companies saying, right, actually government actually a labour government would business actually a labour government wou we've business actually a labour government wou we've got business actually a labour government wou we've got to business actually a labour government wou we've got to get business actually a labour government wou we've got to get offiness actually a labour government wou we've got to get off .1ess actually a labour government wou we've got to get off . these and we've got to get off. these companies are actually always politically averse and they politically risk averse and they don't in don't like getting involved in scraps but if they scraps with parties. but if they think themselves, this think to themselves, if this carries party, carries on in the labour party, gets them, can't be listed in gets them, we can't be listed in the uk anymore. that's the kind of conversation miliband would trigger he starts a trigger if he starts putting a number you think about number on it. if you think about it, you're to your it, you're trying to have your cake eat it. you say, want cake and eat it. you say, i want this policy, i won't tell this policy, but i won't tell you much is. it's quite you how much is. it's quite cowardly by the labour party to say put it up, it's going say we've put it up, it's going to be proper tax. we'll tell you how much just in case it riles them do some them and they still do some economics it. but i'd put it economics on it. but i'd put it up. yeah just think once you up. yeah i just think once you start mean if start getting over, i mean if you about yourself, you you think about yourself, you know, once you start you're paying know, once you start you're paying 75% of your earnings, you where incentive? and where is the incentive? and i know down,

know i'm breaking it down, putting some money. putting into some money. 40 billion. then yeah, billion. yeah, but then yeah, i know. that's right. yeah. and also by the way, they will move the wasn't losing the rent shell wasn't losing money, was certainly money, but it was certainly dunng money, but it was certainly during if you during the pandemic. if you actually they were actually look at what they were declaring profits, it was declaring as profits, it was minuscule where they minuscule compared to where they currently . and if you as currently are. and if you as a shareholder in shell, as well, i think the time in a think for the first time in a very long time, actually very long time, you actually dividends cuts as and i can dividends cuts as well and i can hear tiny little violins hear the tiny little violins bleeding as i speak. bleeding and playing as i speak. richard there's with richard says there's wrong with shell profits in shell making massive profits in good because they make good times because they make huge losses in lean times that nobody cries about . i huge losses in lean times that nobody cries about. i think it's worth saying, by the way, for many years, many of these energy companies in companies haven't paid tax in the uk because obviously you can offset things like when you decommission platforms and you make investments and all the rest of it, dale says anyone can buy shares in shell, so anyone can share in their dividends. shareholders have to be fortunate by circumstances. and what if circumstance dances go the other way ? theo says. if the other way? theo says. if you're going to impose further windfall taxes, then might windfall taxes, then you might as nationalise. i would be

as well nationalise. i would be in yeah, in favour of that one. yeah, well, bp used to be anglo iranian oil, anglo, persian oil. at one point was nationally at one point it was nationally owned. would you be owned. but would you be you would now of re would be in favour now of re nationalising these energy producers would say. i producers would you say. no, i think think the think i'd have. i think the governments got far more important things it needs to be focusing good important things it needs to be focu homelessness good important things it needs to be focu homelessness is od important things it needs to be focu homelessness is what like homelessness which is what i'll be talking about in just a couple of minutes. how do we fix this problem? and don't give me the of just the obvious answer of just getting boat at calais and getting in a boat at calais and coming getting a coming over and getting into a hotel. i'm a bit broader hotel. i'm talking a bit broader than what do we do? than that. what do we do? there's people, families there's so many people, families and still sleeping on and of people still sleeping on the britain. what on the streets in britain. what on earth do we do about it? give me a i'll see into a thought and i'll see you into into .

coming up on. john watson tonight as a bombshell poll reveals a majority of brits have lost faith in rishi sunak. is there a path to tory victory in

2024? former brexit secretary david davis weighs in. plus, there'll be unfiltered opinion from our man of the people, charlie lawson , i'm political charlie lawson, i'm political firebrand. i'm widdecombe and he's britons. firebrand. i'm widdecombe and he's britons . aren't you a fight he's britons. aren't you a fight for a comeback . our royal for a comeback. our royal masterminds lady colin campbell and phil dampier give their no holds barred take. don't miss dan wootton tonight 9 pm. to 11 pm. only on . gb news head of p.m. only on. gb news head of the michelle dewberry. this is dewbs& co and i'm keeping you company till 7:00 tonight alongside me. the consultant alex dean and aaron bastoni, the founder of novara media. that's going to trouble me all night long. if you were watching the telly, then you just saw that promo, didn't you, for down the show charlie laws, i'm sure show with charlie laws, i'm sure he used to be coronation he used to be on coronation street. i'm sorry. i'm not sure i asking these let you i was asking these to let you down. know. i think these is down. i know. i think these is that guy of coronation that the guy of coronation street they looked me street and they all looked at me blankly, sure. is there

blankly, i'm sure. is there anyway, on. i'll anyway, i will move on. i'll wake 3:00 in the morning wake up at 3:00 in the morning hoping into my head. i'll hoping it into my head. i'll wake up thinking about him with them. so sure let's talk them. so i'm sure let's talk homelessness, shall we? gloucester council. i've been basically talking about whether or they put signs up or not they should put signs up to people to , homeless to direct people to, homeless shelters things that . shelters and things like that. they've basically worried about it because they don't want to become a beacon to homelessness, encouraging go over to encouraging people go over to their place and set up camp. i suspect , on the streets for the suspect, on the streets for the night . it got me pondering then, night. it got me pondering then, alex, about the whole situation, about rough sleeping. thousands of people are sleeping rough on the streets, particularly in london . you see a lot when london. you see it a lot when you're driving from to b, how you're driving from a to b, how do get round nights? what do do you get round nights? what do you do? how do you fix it? the most important thing isn't whether there's a sign up. the most thing that most important thing is that somebody physically somebody goes and physically talks that's that's talks to somebody. that's that's the breakthroughs this the way that breakthroughs this environment are achieved. and sometimes, you sometimes, as you know, you sometimes, as you know, you sometimes people want sometimes people don't want help. volunteered by local help. but volunteered by local shelter sometimes people are shelter and sometimes people are just perfectly happy, not to. but quite often it's because

they don't realise what assistance is available to them. so it's very easy to criticise this council for doing what they've , but i actually they've done, but i actually don't think it's the most important want to just important thing i want to just to my thoughts on this to restrict my thoughts on this two, one, one, just one area because the number of people, the percentage of people who are homeless country , you homeless in this country, you come ex forces, it would come from an ex forces, it would make head spin. it's a national scandal . and in my view, i think scandal. and in my view, i think one thing we could be doing you asking what can we do to fix it? one thing we should do to fix it is there who served in combat in this country should be able to walk into a recruiting centre for the rest of their and say, i need help and if assisted that they do get it. but what is the and i must say i'm flying off the of my head now what is the top of my head now what is that thought was that military. i thought was like military covenant. like a military covenant. they military government said actually do get more actually that you do get more support you'll average. and support than you'll average. and thatis support than you'll average. and that is true. johnny mercer has basically made it his mission in life promote that. and life to promote that. and i

really admire what he's done to do but to take advantage of do it. but to take advantage of it, have to know that it's it, you have to know that it's there. and my point would be that i'm with people who are living the work living heinously and as the work goes about what can goes around about what you can do someone comes up and do and if someone comes up and tells there's something tells you there's something you can do, you've already got in the of this country a the spine of this country a system made set facil ities system made set of facil ities and they may not be as many as they once were, but we still have recruiting officers in this country, including here in london and in central london, which literally which are, you know, literally an open door shop window to say this is the military here , here this is the military here, here we are. and it seems to me we could be in the same way we've been imaginative about making churches, the centres of communities as and taking on things post office things like post office facilities . the office is facilities. the post office is closed. could be quite closed. we could be quite imaginative about the estates that we have in the military with those recruiting offices. so that's my one, one suggestion. yeah, i have to i do agree with you. i think it is a national shame that any veteran sleep on the streets who doesn't want to be because i do,

want to be that? because i do, you know, some for whatever you know, some day for whatever reason want to live reason that they want to live independently you independently there. but, you know, anywhere know, it's shameful anywhere that a situation if they that that is a situation if they don't to be out are don't want to be out there are in thoughts and i all it's in your thoughts and i all it's really great point but it's i mean it was where thousands of people veterans were rough sleeping you know, sleeping and often you know, appalling mean, of appalling conditions. i mean, of course but course it's appalling. but you think people served their think these people served their country, they're in subzero temperatures in very inhospitable it's inhospitable places. it's a disgrace, frankly . in addition disgrace, frankly. in addition to that, i would say that as far as i understand it, to that, i would say that as far as i understand it , the sort of as i understand it, the sort of wraparound social care services you in this country you get in this country generally does over 16. mm. and so if somebody is younger than 16, they get a hell of a lot more help than they would at 17, 18, 19. and so what you do see a lot is people basically falling through. and at minute that through. and at the minute that as longer you as longest no longer 16 you you're on your now some you're out on your own now some might think well that's fine that adults but that huge that adults but that has huge costs time because costs society over time because of course they contribute of course they can't contribute through taxes they can't find work . they're obviously going to work. they're obviously going to have to paid for with other services later on down the

month. not prison month. i'm not going to prison or mental service or or mental health service or whatever is actually be, whatever or is actually be, you know, productive members know, really productive members of would be my of society. so that would be my addition. we addition. i think we need wraparound services people wraparound services for people after yeah, let's have a after 16. yeah, let's have a look what you guys i've got to say shall we max as this all stems down for the downturn in society and morality of the last 40 years, this is part of britain becoming more multicultural , a liberal society multicultural, a liberal society where single families are the norm. michael says homeless past homeless people in our home city of hull said that their preferred to remain living on the streets as they felt part of something. i'm sorry, he says, but they don't want a normal existence like the rest of us. i think what you're referring to, michael, in hull there was, michael, is in hull there was, and i think there probably are lots of people sleeping homeless. council homeless. but the council is adamant no reason adamant that there's no reason for that in the hostels or whatever. there are enough spaces so that nobody in that city should be on the streets . city should be on the streets. laurie says there is an epidemic

, michelle, of over six days who have been priced out of the rental market and are now staying in homeless hostels because local or authorities cannot house them above the housing migrants. is that true? are you in over six days? that was once living in private rented accommodation and can no longer give me your thoughts on that. and thank you by the way, you people do not let me down. i do not need to wake up at three in the morning pondering who that fellow was, because you've all just told me, jim mac. donald. yes that is exactly what i street. you i meant from street. thank you for that public service. tell me who he was. i'm going to take a quick break. when come back . i quick break. when i come back. i want talk you about want to talk to you about discrimination , basically, and discrimination, basically, and about this whole kind of diverse , easy stuff. should it be ? , easy stuff. how should it be? you know, we all want diversity , cost? the cost of , but at what cost? the cost of standard ads, do we forget merit and just take boxes? give me your thoughts. i'll see you into

hi i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company 7:00 tonight alongside me. i've got the political consultant, alex dean and aaron boustani, the founder of novara media . we were just of novara media. we were just talking about homelessness there. one of my viewers got in touch and said, there's an epidemic of over sixties homeless to homeless that can't afford to rent. i was asking, are you one of them? hannah said michelle, do think if do you seriously think if someone is over 60 and homeless, sleeping rough, they are sitting there watching show and we'll reply you, sorry , but can you reply to you, sorry, but can you get real? hannah you make a good point . a lot of people do have point. a lot of people do have smartphones know i don't know you might surprise and homelessness the way it homelessness by the way it doesn't necessarily just mean sleeping on the streets homelessness in this country can mean that you're in temporary accommodation and might be accommodation and you might be in sleeping on someone's in bombay sleeping on someone's sofa something. know. sofa or something. i don't know. it lot of different

it means a lot of different things a lot of different things to a lot of different people. does the word homelessness let's talk homelessness anyway? let's talk about diversity and by definition, in some cases describe asian, because the area has been accused of discriminating against 160 white men and its effort to take diversity box is basically this comes as well off the back of police you've seen those guys who've been accepting applicants that can't really speak or write english. why? well, of course , english. why? well, of course, in an effort to take diversity boxes, aron , do you think we are boxes, aron, do you think we are in danger of basically giving up standards in order to take diversity boxes ? well, i need to diversity boxes? well, i need to be perhaps corrected on this. but as i understand it, this is illegal. you can't you can't discriminate against somebody on the basis of their gender or race or age because of the equality act. i mean, you can take what's called positive actions you have two broadly actions if you have two broadly similar candidates, you can use one categories as the one of those categories as the bafis one of those categories as the basis choice. can't basis for your choice. you can't say, hiring this person

say, i'm hiring this person because that colour. you because of that skin colour. you can't do that. that's illegal. so i'm sort of surprised that this been this whole story has been accused of as it stands at accused of this as it stands at the moment. mean, if the moment. yeah, i mean, if that the case, they'd be that was the case, they'd be breaking as well, of breaking the law as well, of course. you've got you've course. but you've got you've got conservative tobias got a conservative mp, tobias ellwood, talking about him. he's a serious assertion a very, very serious assertion to clearly people shouldn't to be clearly people shouldn't be against be discriminated against because of their skin colour or their gender or agencies is gender or their agencies is ridiculous. you know, it ridiculous. but, you know, it happens, surely must happens, right? surely you must say . i mean, there's lots of say. i mean, there's lots of different examples where you'll see, i don't some old see, i don't know, some old white getting or getting let white guy getting or getting let go or not getting his contract renewed and then his place comes a young black female or something like that. and you look at that and you think, is that appointment? how has that appointment been made? purely on appointment been made? purely on a merit, or is it a benefit and merit, or is it you're asking question? you're asking the question? we don't i mean. like don't know what i mean. like i said it's an offence if you actually make a massive assumption say yes, it was if assumption to say yes, it was if you if you, if you have a hiring decision it's, decision between the two, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's illegal. so i find this whole sort of

speculative. is this is it that it's illegal? it shouldn't be it's illegal? so it shouldn't be happening if somebody happening like so if somebody saying think it's saying to me, do you think it's right? i think it's wrong. right? no, i think it's wrong. it's also do think it it's also what do you think it does happen? because i'm sure i does happen? because i'm sure i do i'm it happens. but do my i'm sure it happens. but what what do you think then, about quotas? do you think, for example, a company should be able a quota, whether able to have a quota, whether it's a i don't know, i want 20% female whatever. you female or whatever. do you support kind thing? support those kind of thing? well, london well, i saw the london metropolitan police service saying new saying we want 40% of new hires. i year this year i think next year or this year or being bame. i think it's or 40% being bame. i think it's ridiculous. i think you can't you people like that. you can't hire people like that. you need to hire on the basis of aptitude. i mean, you can say we have a commitment more have a commitment to hire more people, know, from people, but, you know, from these great. these communities, that's great. but think ill but a quarter, i think is ill judged. alex of course, the metropolitan police target is by this they at half this year and they are at half of their stated target. so to achieve it they would have to fire half and hundreds of white officers and hire hundreds and hundreds of black officers, which would be the most obvious example of possible. so when you

face that kind of thing, you can do what i'm sure they will do and say, oh, it's terrible. we fail to our targets worries us. let's try again. or you might sensibly say this target was ridiculous to begin with. after all we the most important thing isn't the colour of the skin of the person policing you. it is the person policing you. it is the content of their character and their ability to uphold the law values. it seems law and its values. and it seems to it's just the same with to me it's just the same with the r.a.f. and part of the conversation with the raf that spicer is the spicer was talking about is the suggestion they have suggestion that they have lowered testing in lowered standards on testing in order to get people in, but maintains this is a great example of doublethink, that it won't affect standards once they hired. i mean, it's tautological, of course it will affect standards you've affect standards if you've lowered standards which lowered the standards by which you my view is we you hire. my view is that we should and i of should hire on merit. and i of course, as a conservative, think about fact now most about the fact now have the most diverse cabinet in history brought to you by a policy that has three female has produced three female prime ministers hiring and appointing on merit. but if it's exclusively on merit, how do you get how do you achieve things

like social mobility? because let's just say i want to own merit. applause, go have a degree of wealth, go do this. that, if you will, from like some i did a bad city and some city school and some city, some y. you know, i have a question which one you want to ask james cleverly family over cleverly if family comes over from leone, mum, cleaner from sierra leone, mum, cleaner or kemi badenoch, you want to go and all in favour and talk to say all in favour right but kwasi of right now? but kwasi kwarteng of course, chancellor course, briefly, our chancellor rishi prime minister rishi sunak, the prime minister of this country, of course, many on the left who say it's the wrong of diversity. they wrong kind of diversity. they didn't these didn't like that. these examples, another examples, please choose another one. this one. i would say this is diversity in action. and the conservative party's achieved it whilst selecting people. you may not like them. it makes it to a point on the maldives and laboun point on the maldives and labour. absolutely no synopsis. absolute scandal. labour is the way it is on this. why do you think it is? i think labour. i think it is? i think labour. i think because the presumption is that the british electorate doesn't want a woman prime minister or doesn't want a person of colour, that they need to take the safe pick and

actually counterintuitively , actually counterintuitively, they're wrong because we've had three female prime ministers and now we've got prime minister now we've got a prime minister who asian heritage. but who is of asian heritage. but a lot people the labour lot of people in the labour party even say what party can't even say what a woman never a mind. this is woman is. never a mind. this is this a separate issue. well, this is a separate issue. well, kind of separate but linked. i do not think. i think so. i said no. that's without getting into philosophical that philosophical questions that sir. this is sir. ontological issue. this is a question about representation. you what you ? you know what i'll tell you? i'll philosophical i'll save that philosophical question then for another time. in meantime i'll share some in the meantime i'll share some thoughts people saying thoughts that people are saying about guys. mark is saying, about you guys. mark is saying, what a pleasure to listen to your two guests today. they disagree certain but disagree on certain things, but they instead of shouting they talk instead of shouting and interrupting . thank you to and interrupting. thank you to you both . brian's as well. an you both. brian's as well. an excellent debate between these two gentlemen. it's like a tennis match score present 40 to 50 fifteens. alex but this was a little while ago, so anything for the winner. but yeah , i for the winner. but yeah, i think it's a date since then. ed said so refreshing to watch two people with complete li opposing political views, debating sensibly. well done all that's

what we like. respectful debate, that's all i've got time for. thank you. i'll see you tomorrow . hello, alex deakin here with your latest weather update from the met office. another day for the met office. another day for the vast majority tomorrow, a bit brighter, perhaps a bit more in the way of sunshine here and there. and it will be a milder day as well. dry because high pressure remains control, but pressure remains in control, but it's dry everywhere at the it's not dry everywhere at the moment won't be overnight moment and it won't be overnight tonight. weather patterns tonight. these weather patterns are southwards. are slowly pushing southwards. and the ice and notice how close the ice bars it's turning very bars are. it's turning very windy once more over northeast england eastern scotland, england and eastern scotland, especially rain across northern west scotland that will edge south through the night. as i say, very blustery in the north—east at times. the rain creeping into northern ireland, southern scotland. as it southern scotland. but as it does it's kind fizzling does so, it's kind of fizzling out. won't amount to much, out. so won't amount to much, certainly further south, most dry, mild here, seven, dry, very mild here, seven, eight, nine degrees as an overnight minimum. temperatures further north will a little as we get two clear skies late in the night where the front will still provide some drizzly rain

for the north coast of northern ireland. northwest england and western parts of scotland during friday, slowly pushing northwards through the day for the south. again, most places dry and perhaps brighter across parts of east wales, south—west, england. but a chance of seeing some sunny spells generally, though still fairly cloudy . but though still fairly cloudy. but look at the temperatures well above average , double digits above average, double digits across the and places across the board and some places getting the teens it'll getting into the teens it'll stay on friday stay pretty mild on friday evening. bit of light rain and just here and there over the northern isles, the western isles and some light rain at times western hills , but times over western hills, but most places dry as we head into saturday saturday saturday and saturday across much it will much of the south, it will mostly stay that way again. a lot of cloud, but we should see some breaks in the cloud. we'll see wetter weather coming see some wetter weather coming into the northwest with outbreaks rain. this is outbreaks of rain. this is a weather front across weather front pushing across scotland northern ireland by scotland and northern ireland by the of afternoon . the end of the afternoon. another one. again another pretty mild one. again with temperatures widely in double with some double figures with some brightness south, 12 brightness across the south, 12 or is possible. should be or 13 is possible. should be a sunny day on sunday. most places

set fare, but it will also be just a little bit colder as well

energy companies are breaking down people's front doors to put in very expensive pre—payment metres. we debate . do they metres. we debate. do they simply have too much power? rishi has been in power for 100 days. we'll assess just how is he guessing on joining me on talking points charlton athletic legend alan curbishley that and much more all coming up after the news with party metal host . the news with party metal host. nigel thank you . the news at

nigel thank you. the news at 7:00 from