oh on mark dolan tonight in my opinion. liz truss launches her comeback with an explosive new article in the daily telegraph and i share her view that britain to end a culture of tax and spend the country needs a dose of tough economic love . it dose of tough economic love. it might take it ten. finally a prime minister who serious about stopping the boats. rishi sunak's showing surprised courage by threatening to axe the hated european court of human rights. my ma meets guest his former cabinet minister buckland. plus tomorrow's papers on my all star panel will live . on my all star panel will live. at nine. welcome back. i'm karen armstrong in the gb newsroom. fresh of nicola bailey on the day she disappeared have been released by one of her friends. the cctv images from a doorbell

show 45 year old wearing a long, dark , loading her car outside dark, loading her car outside her home before driving our children to school and going for a riverside walk like cheshire. police believe she fell into the river wire. but a forensic search and rescue specialist peter folding says many elements of that theory add up. nicola was last seen in the top field by that, by the witness. you know, there's nothing to say. she couldn't have been kidnapped and dragged and put in a car and taken away and. and someone could have put a mobile phone by the as a tick or nicola the river as a tick or nicola wanted to disappear herself. it just doesn't ring. right. the amount searches that's gone amount of searches that's gone on this river, the body, if on in this river, the body, if there was body in there is no way you're going to go all the way you're going to go all the way down to the sea. not with us. that that current. the metropolitan police has again apologised to the victims of the serial rapist, david carriker , serial rapist, david carriker, ahead of his sentencing hearing tomorrow . the sacked police tomorrow. the sacked police constables admitted 49 criminal

charges, including 24 counts of rape against 12 women. the force says they're truly sorry for the harm and devastation caused the victims, saying he should never have been a police officer. the man also says they're determined to address issues in the force in the weeks since he pleaded guilty. we have spoken hour by houn guilty. we have spoken hour by hour, genuine and commitment to address the systemic failings that have been identified by our own reviews by those of his majesty's inspectorate and baroness qc . we are determined baroness qc. we are determined to root out those who corrupt our integrity and that work is already underway . the uk's already underway. the uk's biggest nurses union offered to call off next week's planned strikes in england . if the prime strikes in england. if the prime minister makes a new meaningful pay minister makes a new meaningful pay offer. the rcn ends appeal to rishi sunak to match offers made by the welsh and scottish governments, both of which have led to strikes being suspended. nurses and ambulance staff are

combining tomorrow , widely combining tomorrow, widely predicted to be the biggest day of strike action in the history of strike action in the history of the nhs before further strikes later in the week . strikes later in the week. ukraine says it's expecting a possible major new offensive from russia this month as the anniversary of the invasion approaches . the defence approaches. the defence minister, alexi resnikoff says ukraine will be able to hold off moscow's forces despite not receiving all of the west's military reinforced months. however, foreign minister dmitry kuleba says ukraine will receive up to 140 battle tanks on tuesday in what he's described as a first wave of reinforcements being supplied by a western coalition of 12 countries. tv online and dab radio. this is gb news, but now it is time for free speech nafion it is time for free speech nation .

nation. nicholas sturgeon popularity plummets to an all time low . rishi sunak talks time low. rishi sunak talks tough with the eu and the us shoots down a chinese balloon. this is free speech nation . this is free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. this is the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics and of course, we're going to try to update you on all people and institutions all the people and institutions cancelled this week by those lovable social justice activists. only activists. although we do only have coming up on the have 2 hours. coming up on the show tonight, shot putter. i mean, a strickler tells us why she could be out she could be left out a disadvantage by plans to allow transgender compete in transgender women to compete in female and field events. female track and field events. we will hear about a big brother watch investor gation, which reveals government disinfo reveals that government disinfo mention spying mention units have been spying on political dissent and suppressing free speech online. and i'm going to be speaking to the mother who is suing her son's school because she believes forced to

believes he was forced to take part lgbt pride parade. part in an lgbt pride parade. and, of course , i got my lovely and, of course, i got my lovely studio guest this evening. comedians howey and lewis schaefer . welcome back . i have schaefer. welcome back. i have a terrible throat and an illness, but i still come along, you know, and you're the health expert there is. maybe you could diagnose me. tell me what's going on here. you. you came along. you shouldn't be here. i shouldn't here. i be shouldn't be here. i should be eating you, which is eating more like you, which is just eggs every morning. just take eggs every morning. yes. full, dead cows . they. they yes. full, dead cows. they. they are dead. they were alive at one time. they were. and i kill them. now, the key thing this is them. now, the key thing this is the thing this is the thing that i want to tell people. if you have a cold, do not cough, coughing is actually breaks the cells something in cells whatever does something in there and it creates irritation. it makes things how it makes things worse. how should limits as should we trust limits as a medical people? it's not a cold. you through you obviously going through puberty. i yeah well long time coming and i'm glad i'm glad i got eventually we're going to start with some questions from the audience. our one is

the audience. our first one is from john. where is john? hello. hi is it all over for nicholas sturgeon yeah, it feels like it, doesn't it? so apparently nicholas sturgeon is approval rating has crashed from a plus 50 at the height of covid and it's gone down to minus four. right. so this follows, of course, all of these transgender riders which is completely engulfed the snp. they tried to put through their gender recognition bill that recognition reform bill that was rejected uk government . rejected by the uk government. and there was the and then of course there was the case of isla bryson who is a male rapist , case of isla bryson who is a male rapist, adam graham, who then decided to identify as a woman and nicholas sturgeon was talk was well, remanding him in a female prison and then talking about whether he should be moved completely to a female prison and this is kind of exposed the problem, hasn't it, josh, for genden problem, hasn't it, josh, for gender, ideology within the snp? oh, broadly , absolutely. i oh, more broadly, absolutely. i mean, this is the subtitle of that trans book. you know, when ideology meets reality and that's what's happened over the last week or and that was amazing interview where nicholas

sturgeon just couldn't answer oh as a woman i mean it was just it was amazing she was just totally flabbergasted and it was fantastic. well, i think that's what's happened to like today, fantastic. well, i think that's wh.instance,3ned to like today, fantastic. well, i think that's wh.instance, we've) like today, fantastic. well, i think that's wh.instance, we've) liketheiay, fantastic. well, i think that's wh.instance, we've) likethe let for instance, we've had the let women speak event in glasgow and this is in i think it's in george square in glasgow. there's these there's been all these people gathering. some gathering. we might have some image that coming image and footage of that coming up can get hold of that. up if we can get hold of that. but it's been very interesting because we've seen all of these feminists. mean, they're out feminists. i mean, they're out there they've been there today, but they've been warning about this for many, many months, for a long, long time. nicholas sturgeon time. now, nicholas sturgeon actually said, well, their arguments no merit. that arguments have no merit. that was the phrase she used. and now, of course, she's to accept that. actually, there's a reason why prisons are segregated by biological sex and it's not something that is particularly difficult to come to terms with. it's very strange. it, though, is that she completely misread the this one. they the room on this one. they didn't, know, she to go didn't, you know, she has to go in that direction . and like in that direction. and like like we've discussing months we've been discussing for months and there's that silence and weeks, there's that silence mentality, was called mentality, as it was called on this show. yes. you're in

this show. yes. where you're in in one silo or you're not. there's no there's no there's as i would say, there's no venn diagram jam. there's nothing in the middle. so she has to she has to go with it and but interestingly, think it's interestingly, it's i think it's really scuppered her hopes of an independent scotland because because the snp and her entire domain has been to achieve that. and now her popularity, as we've just said, is down to minus four. it doesn't look good for her, does it? she's going to have to go. no. and you know what the that's the thing about politics. why louis schaefer will never be in politics, because it always ends ugly. it's not the reason, you know, it's. because you it's. yeah is it because you refer yourself in the third refer to yourself in the third person. meant louis person. yeah no, i meant louis schaefer the performer or schaefer as the performer or artist . the comedian known artist brand. the comedian known as louis schaefer . yes, yes. go as louis schaefer. yes, yes. go on. no, no . i'll just say the on. no, no. i'll just say the thing is, there's a lesson here. other politicians within the uk, because her popularity has gone down and the snp. yeah, labour interestingly, which is doing very well everywhere else that she went up with. i think one

point. whereas the tories and, scotland, who are the ones scotland, who are the only ones who are actually opposing this bill, they went up points. bill, they went up five points. so this is a massive lesson for these the politicians i'm these out. the politicians i'm to labour to get on to talking uk labour to get on top of this because they're still not of the curve like even this week you saw them interviewed and they finally came out. obviously been came out. they'd obviously been briefed were to briefed and they were coming to go. for rapists to go. no it's bad for rapists to be in prison. well done. be in prison. like well done. like were. i'm just telling like they were. i'm just telling you, the truth is like, no, you're still not saying trans women women. trans women women aren't women. trans women are. be are. trans women need to be deau are. trans women need to be dealt with respect. fairness and equality does not equality but that does not make them and still them women. and they're still not it's not saying not there yet. it's not saying she there is . no she understands there is. no hope for this question because it's based on a falsehood. they have to they have to is hope because self—interest will always win out. well also, i mean, the thing is, i mean, as says, the problem is that i don't labour understood don't think labour understood how it is deny how unpopular it is to deny reality with the. yeah, right. and i know that politicians can get away with lying, but you can't get with lying about can't get away with lying about something. a child knows to

something. even a child knows to be when keir be true. and then when keir starmer is what is a woman, he's like, well, you know, like, oh, well, you know, it's complicated. of woman complicated. what kind of woman have well, you have a penis? oh, well, you know, difficult say know, it's difficult to just say no. woman of a penis. no, no. a woman kind of a penis. no, there are differences. the other day when rishi sunak was interviewed, what is a woman? he said? done said? adult, human, female, done so so that's what if so very fine. so that's what if labour and know you're big labour and i know you're big labour and i know you're big labour if they want to get labour fan if they want to get if to get in and if they want to get in and actually this and half actually a part of this and half lives semitism the massive lives on semitism the massive misogyny and antisemitism you're okay yeah yeah okay okay with this yeah yeah okay it'll interesting to see it'll be very interesting to see what think what happens. but do think nicholas it's over for nicholas sturgeon it's over for her. nicholas sturgeon it's over for hen be nicholas sturgeon it's over for her. be surely at her. it's got to be surely at this point anyway, we shall see. i don't often get my political right, fair, but we'll see right, to be fair, but we'll see what we've got. another question now where is now from catherine. where is catherine? is catherine? hi, catherine. is rishi starting rishi sunak starting a trade war? eu? yeah. so obviously war? the eu? yeah. so obviously you will have about about you will have read about about this. sunak talking about this. rishi sunak talking about how he wants to scrap thousands of laws . he also wants it out of eu laws. he also wants it out of eu laws. he also wants it out of the european court of human rights and the eu is sort of responding , basically saying

responding, basically saying what it's going to it's going to kick up a trade war and it's going to it's going to basically punish sunak and the uk. going to it's going to basically punish sunak and the uk . now, punish sunak and the uk. now, josh, i know you're not a fan of brexit, but one of the points of brexit, but one of the points of brexit fact the main brexit and in fact the main reason people voted for reason why people voted for brexit was the principle that laws that govern this country should this should be made in this country and thousands of laws and there are thousands of laws and there are thousands of laws and that come and regulations that do come from bureaucrats in from unelected bureaucrats in brussels that surely as a democrat disturb you. democrat should disturb you. yeah, are two things yeah, but there are two things here. number one is when we signed the deal, we made it an understanding that would understanding that there would be here, i.e. we be an even footing here, i.e. we wouldn't just cut all wouldn't suddenly just cut all the legislation that counts for workers the quality of workers or for the quality of our and whatnot, because our goods and whatnot, because then that it then suddenly that makes it unfair of having this unfair in terms of having this trade them. if suddenly our quality goods isn't quality of our goods isn't the same as so that's one same standards as so that's one issue. and they're right to be that's a fair enough issue. the other is. yes, that we of other thing is. yes, that we of course, we have the right now to get rid some of these laws. but at same time, bill at the same time, the bill that's actually pushed to that's actually been pushed to do a lot of problems do it, there's a lot of problems with because it basically with it because it basically gives just carte

gives ministers just carte blanche whatever they blanche to cut whatever they want, which is not how laws are deau want, which is not how laws are dealt no, we dealt with normally. no, but we need to have a debate in parliament. need to have that parliament. we need to have that this why this debate doesn't. that's why i'm just goes. you i'm saying law just goes. you can you now. and can whatever you want now. and that's for our that's the problem for our democracy. would you that on democracy. but would you that on principle it's not good idea principle it's not a good idea to have laws forming? i agree with everything principle the with everything on principle the is concerned about this? is are you concerned about this? i mean, you know, it's over for sunak. it's over for the conservatives. be conservatives. they won't be next but think it's next time. but do you think it's probably the right thing to do given that pledged to get given that they pledged to get brexit sort of actually brexit done, to sort of actually push through this of thing? push through this kind of thing? well they maybe sturgeon well maybe they maybe sturgeon and actually switch and soon actually switch positions, maybe and they'd be maybe appreciated in the maybe more appreciated in the country. would interesting country. it would be interesting at as transition from at their end as transition from from a i don't know not to sturgeon don't don't go along with that was ridiculous with me that was ridiculous i got to got no response from the people then i it's the problem is you can only have one master we are our own master as are we the masters of europe. signed the masters of europe. we signed up because we were up for europe because we were desperate. we excuse me, the english, the british signed up

for the british for europe because the british were to be of were desperate to be part of those people. yeah and now when we realise that it's messing it up in a lot of ways that, maybe we should separate if we separate. so we're basically it's the same thing, the silo thing there's no venn diagram, you're either with us or against. i mean has the eu react to other countries who have, you know, they have slightly different regulations when it comes that kind of comes to trade and that kind of thing. i mean, surely get around it that way. you know, they shouldn't a problem shouldn't have a problem with this so long as the this so long as so long as the policies formulated policies are formulated fairly well. the well. i guess that's the question of what's what is fair. they're shooting they're basically shooting a warning shot across the bow to say, careful. but say, just be careful. but don't you sometimes that the eu, you think sometimes that the eu, and particularly macron, has been particularly when comes been particularly when it comes to wanting to the uk, wanting to effectively set an effectively the uk to set an example for other countries who might thinking leaving, might be thinking of leaving, i.e. that i.e. italy? i think that historically that's certainly been i think that been the case, but i think that as these countries seen as these other countries seen how it's been for us, how disastrous it's been for us, i think that concerns that i don't think that concerns that any i don't think we'll know if it's been disastrous another

it's been disastrous for another ten years. think think ten or 15 years. i think i think we pretty know well we know we pretty much know well we know things in midst of a things are in the midst of a global economic crisis. you global economic crisis. so you can brexit now can be operated by brexit now the the lowest of the g7, the way the lowest of the g7, including russia. and you can i understand you to play understand why you want to play on brexit. it's nice and easy to think about it too much. i do think about it too much. i do think about it too much. i do think a lot about it, but. but it's every night it's it's not every night it's not it's not every night it's not it's they just it's not provable. they just this place where you go. this is the place where you go. woman prove it. josh woman i just prove it. josh there we think this assertion is proof. i think would have proof. i think this would have happened i we're happened anyway. i think we're in crisis. in a worldwide crisis. we exacerbated were exacerbated it because we were independent so it wasn't because of brexit, though. it was in part of that we part because of brexit that we basically the covid an basically used the covid as an as a sort of smokescreen to get us out. i mean, illness today could be because of brexit there's a, there's a good to have our brain play me everything going to move away from going from me. there we go we're going to the question now this one. this where danny? this from danny. where is danny? i'm very well, thank i'm sorry. i'm very well, thank you. it's little better you. it's a little bit better than you, seems. now i'm down than you, it seems. now i'm down on story. your on that story. and your question. okay, we go. should we be more concerned about china

spying on the west? yeah, this is mean. it quite funny. is mean. i find it quite funny. the big chinese balloon which got shot down off the coast , got shot down off the coast, america. and you know, this was a china surveillance balloon. i didn't things existed. didn't know such things existed. but the china chinese government said the craft was just where the ship would have been blown off course. were they did they ever down the balloon? ever to shoot down the balloon? oh, think totally fair oh, i think that's totally fair enough. let's the same enough. it's let's at the same time, the idea that it seems like a simple thing, it's just this big balloon . actually, this big balloon. actually, china pretty much spy on us right through a microphone hello china. hello, beijing. yeah what about. what about everyone ? i about. what about everyone? i mean, you do all those dances , mean, you do all those dances, tiktok and the chinese government very good. very, you know, move of the way. yeah. know, you move of the way. yeah. but are chinese government but are the chinese government using yeah. yes i know. using that. yeah. yes i know. isn't this just look isn't there is troubling aspect to this which is this escalation of tensions between china and the us it is bit of a worry. it us it is a bit of a worry. it was because they were going to have this big meeting. it was going to the most high going to be the most high profile meeting had

profile meeting they'd had for quite hopefully reset quite a few, hopefully reset some now that's being some stuff and now that's being called so yeah, it is called off. so yeah, it is a problem. there is. are you worried about china of talk about silos again? it is it about silos again? well it is it is a silo. is that. yeah, of course. we're worried course. of course. we're worried that. china that. we're worried about china because because been because china because we've been basically sticking nose into china's since. so it's our china's face since. so it's our fault . is china's face since. so it's our fault. is fault. was it? fault. it is our fault. was it? yeah why we be involved yeah why should we be involved in taiwan and the fact that china . right. shek went there in china. right. shek went there in 1947, whatever it is it because we pledged to support what the us has pledged to support? yes. how many times you've been in a in a situation where you pledge support some and then you is the person is person you're supporting is a total. nincompoop but total. yeah. nincompoop but you basically to your face basically have to get your face punched you want seem punched because you want to seem like the brave who america has stuck nose and by when i say stuck its nose and by when i say america, i mean america and its little buddy brit, the uk, the uk here is that we have stuck . uk here is that we have stuck. yeah, yeah . blaming you. you yeah, yeah. blaming you. you coming along the ride because you just got nothing with you. they've stuck a nose around the

world. we're in the hundreds, not hundreds , 120 countries or not hundreds, 120 countries or something actually. should we not be concerned with human rights abuses, that kind of thing. in in china , we not stick thing. in in china, we not stick our nose. and when it comes to things like that do we can muslims instance. no yeah muslims for instance. no yeah maybe we should maybe we shouldn't with but shouldn't trade with them but we're you know. yeah we we're going to you know. yeah we should but there's some should care. but there's some you mess with. the biggest you can't mess with. the biggest bearin you can't mess with. the biggest bear in yard and you can bear in your yard and you can maybe pick it up at your card if he's giving you a hard. but he's the biggest bear that china the biggest bear it's a very famous american saying yeah , the big american saying yeah, the big bear big bear and go with the small cat. yeah. is that the price to make that up. i made that up. oh really. no. oh, okay. the you said it just okay. the way you said it just sounded like folklore, you know? and then blew. they blew up and then they blew. they blew up the. balloon. did they the. the balloon. where did they blow balloon off? six miles blow the balloon off? six miles off of the coast of america. they balloon to they waited for the balloon to go across alaska, across canada , cross america. i i'm just

asking for we're once upon a time we could stick our nose everywhere . we can't do it everywhere. we can't do it anymore. and andrew no , you anymore. and andrew no, you can't. yeah, we know. stay in your lane. yeah, stay in our lane. your lane. yeah, stay in our lane . and you know when at some lane. and you know when at some point like britain, britain realised hey we can't mess with every single country, the suez , every single country, the suez, the suez crisis. yes, that taught you british a lesson . you taught you british a lesson. you can't you can't do what you used to do not think, well i'm probably got america and i'm on the air on the palestinian side , 19505 the air on the palestinian side , 1950s politics now. we're going to move on to a final question. this is from peter. where is peter hoping it's harder now? were they wrong to write off liz truss? yeah this was it. i actually read this article, the live liz truss has written for the telegraph and this is a big piece 4000 where she's it's an essay sort of justifying her, you know what she did in her 44 days in office and she defends her economic policies, her mini budget. she says that her demise was caused by wing economic by left wing economic establishment. and also establishment. and she's also implicitly criticised when she's

seen like there his seen like there and his corporation tax increase. what do of it, josh? do you think of it, josh? i mean, you know, comes across mean, you know, she comes across pretty in this article pretty well in this article better came when better than she came across when she prime minister. she was a prime minister. i thought, well, it took about how long promised? four long was she promised? four days. took 44 days. yeah, so it took about 44 days. yeah, so it took about 44 days for me to read this essay. it is long. it's a beast and in terms of writing her off, i don't think she was ever really written on. no, wait, you probably knew more about her from the essay than we ever did in months of her life. in the months of her life. wasn't that like she did? she wasn't able to sell the mini budget. people didn't understand what the mini was for. she kept using economic growth . but using like economic growth. but actually when it came to the nuts and bolts of it, people didn't really understand and it spooked the markets. but wasn't there quite there something quite aspirational there something quite aspira'this,l there something quite aspira'this, this idea of pushing about this, this idea of pushing for economic growth a means for economic growth as a means to the catastrophe. but it to solve the catastrophe. but it obviously was obviously failed and it was disastrous country did disastrous and our country did billions pounds because billions of pounds because of it. that. yeah. it. well, there is that. yeah. yeah the other side yeah so that's the other side that doesn't necessarily that she doesn't necessarily fully and i fully address. and i also i couldn't find that article, i

couldn't find in that article, i couldn't find in that article, i couldn't this left wing couldn't find this left wing economic establishment. i didn't use that phrase exactly. i think that's the that's gone around it. people still talking how she's blaming she thinks she thinks that the thinks ultimately that the government a course government is pursuing a course which is effectively a form of left wing economic policy. you know, you all. i've know, that's have you all. i've seen she they want seen it. she thinks they want cutting corporation tax but i mean i've seen these mean all i've seen in these leaders basically blame everybody else, right? corbyn blaming johnson blaming everyone else. johnson now, like , look, just own now, it's like, look, just own up to it. you made some mistakes. i mean, her policies conservative in way that we hadnt conservative in way that we hadn't really seen from a conservative leader and that was quite interesting. so maybe it's just not for conservative just not for the conservative government departed , be government to have departed, be conservative and still and still succeed anymore. i think you're probably that the probably right. i think that the fact economic orthodoxy fact is that economic orthodoxy now is pretty much set. and that's and there isn't going to be differential between be much differential between those parties. feel those two parties. do you feel sorry for liz truss? no, because i think she an idiot because what she i think personally from my point of view, what she did

was was so sort of the right move, but not at the right time. we've just spent we've just blown the bank and now you're cutting taxes . now you're you cutting taxes. now you're you know, you can't do it. we've got to deal with the situation we have, which hard government not you know, not her government, but i mean, the tories which went basically they did, went basically what they did, they the they basically destroyed the country money on a country by spending money on a fake pandemic. when it was a fake pandemic. when it was a fake pandemic. when it was a fake pandemic because there was an actual pandemic. i've had the disease three times. had it disease three times. i've had it to the flu. they didn't to i've had the flu. they didn't go, god, i going to close go, oh my god, i going to close the the flu. i just the world of the flu. i just want it right now. yeah, i have it. yes, i don't see anybody afraid going to come over afraid i'm going to come over and them no, you're and give them a kiss. no, you're not. that absolutely does terrify not for reasons terrify me, but not for reasons i'm die to be close to i'm going to die to be close to it. there is some. we've had this conversation and i didn't want again on air. want to have it again on air. but it's not going to work with. isuppose but it's not going to work with. i suppose we're supposed we're supposed i don't supposed to pretend that i don't like, know. we had this like, you know. we had this weekend, so. yeah, i think. i think . i weekend, so. yeah, i think. i think. i don't sorry for think. i don't feel sorry for her. i do think that she was

basic. right. and this is the problem with country right now ? problem with country right now? is that this is the problem is that because of the bbc , because that because of the bbc, because of the way the political system is work, has not it hasn't gotten into the camps that it needs to get into to the camps of the lay of the conservative which which is this is the camp that's running it now is basically keir starmer well, that's sort of come back to me . that's sort of come back to me. i can say that there isn't much between i feel like there are two silos and there's a venn diagram. i've had enough. okay silo and venn diagram chart to last us all night so we'll leave it there. there is this country. i'm going to break, whether you like not. after the like it or not. but after the break free speech nation break on free speech nation putter amelia strickler will tell us why herself many tell us why herself and many other are concerned other athletes are concerned about to allow about proposals to allow transgender compete in transgender women to compete in female track field events. female track and field events. see moment .

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation . concerns are currently nation. concerns are currently being raised by athletes about plans by governing body world which would allow transgender women to compete in female track and field events. a final decision is expected in march where the governing body saying they will potentially continue using testosterone limits as bafis using testosterone limits as basis for inclusion . other basis for inclusion. other sports have banned transgender athletes from participating at the top level. if they've gone through any part of the process of male puberty. so to discuss this issue , joined by two time this issue, joined by two time british champion shot putter emma stricker. british champion shot putter emma stricker . thank you so much emma stricker. thank you so much for joining me. say thank you. so start with your own experience . obviously as a as experience. obviously as a as a top athlete, it's really important , top athlete, it's really important, isn't it, that you are competing against other women? yes, 100. you know , male women? yes, 100. you know, male shot putters that , you know, shot putters that, you know,

trained with, been on the circuit with. it's just a different level . the women, the different level. the women, the women's shot putter . so it would women's shot putter. so it would be a massive massive disadvantage, if any , to, you disadvantage, if any, to, you know, decide one day they needed to change gender. so when did you decide to speak out about this? i mean, there have been some athletes, people like mari yamaguchi and martina navratilova who have spoken out. sharron another sharron davies being another example, flak example, getting a lot of flak for so so must have for doing so. so you must have been aware that there would be that possibility of a bit of pushback? yes, of course. i you know, was asked do an know, i was asked do an interview for the telegraph. and, you know, i thought i would get it online . and get much hate for it online. and i actually got so much support. so many parents, you know, thank you from my you know, i don't want my daughters to have to through this or people's personal of i've had to compete in parkruns against you males who are now identifying as women. and i'm not getting the results that i deserve that i've worked for because even though it's a parkrun , you know, it's a parkrun, you know, certainly not certainly that that's not matters to some people, that's

their competitive, know, their competitive, you know, that's sport . that's their competitive sport. i think it would yeah, it's i just think it would yeah, it's just been such a nice response, to be honest. yes. yeah thrilled about it. and you know a lot of people also interpret this kind of statement saying that want of statement saying that we want sex being transphobic sex sports as being transphobic or coming from a place of hate . or coming from a place of hate. what do you make of that accusation i i think it's accusation? i mean, i think it's almost anger towards towards us and i don't feel i'm i would, you know, discriminate against anyone. i mean, i throw a metal ball for my job. who am to i tell people how to live? but just think, you know, it's not about not including people , just about not including people, just about not including people, just about protecting the women's category in the female sex. so they can still be included. there's talks of an open category, for example , you know category, for example, you know that you know , they would still that you know, they would still be included. and it's not it's not an exclusion. it's just protecting the women's category. so we're seeing record so we're not seeing record sponsors, winnings to biological males for women's events. and my understanding, i mean, the current system where it's about

testosterone suppression, that actually isn't necessarily sufficient , is it? no, actually isn't necessarily sufficient, is it? no, there's so many research articles. i think there's at least 17 to date that have basically said if they've gone through male puberty , you know, the puberty, you know, the suppressors or keeping testosterone at a lower level is not going to undo those male advantage . as you know, you advantage. as you know, you can't undo bone size and heart size and lung capacity and, you know, hip angles , etc. there's know, hip angles, etc. there's so many examples where you just you just can't undo that and there are such an advantage there are just such an advantage and we see in sport, you know there's even some things on twitter right now that are, you know, dna asher—smith , one of know, dna asher—smith, one of the best 100 metre runners in the best 100 metre runners in the world would finish, you know, in the u17 boys know, eighth in the u17 boys category the you just in the category in the you just in the uk. yeah. mean, you know, uk. yeah. i mean, you know, i mean how can argue with statistics like that. that's that's you know so that would be devastating sport if devastating for women's sport if it to that. i've seen a lot it got to that. i've seen a lot of people take issue with the statistics simply deny statistics or just simply deny them, for instance, them, you know, for instance, people saying there aren't many trans athletes the trans athletes taking all the

medals. happening. medals. that's not happening. what do when people say what do you say when people say that is happening? but you that it is happening? but you know, laurel hubbard from new zealand took , a woman's place at zealand took, a woman's place at the olympics . i was denied the the olympics. i was denied the olympics in 2021 simply because my governing body didn't to take me. yeah, i know how it feels to be denied olympics so. i know be denied an olympics so. i know someone. know , was someone. it is. you know, was sat home during that olympics sat at home during that olympics that been that you know, could have been there. so you know, is there. yeah. so you know, is happening at elite level in swimming as well in the us and in school, high in high school, which high school the us get you school sports in the us get you into, know college. great into, you know college. great colleges universities colleges and universities on scholarships, is, it scholarships, etc. so it is, it is happening and is ultimately happening and women right now and women are losing right now and we've seen, you know, as you mentioned, laurel hubbard was also of leah thomas, also the case of leah thomas, the from, the swimmer who went from, i think, roughly 592nd in the ranking to number one overnight and of and course when that happens it opens people's eyes doesn't it's very prominent when you see someone on the on the podium towering over the competitors. yeah. i mean of course it certainly would be the reverse if i were to , you know,

reverse if i were to, you know, be decide one day, you know, that i want to transition to it just wouldn't work, you know, in the reverse. and i just think, you know, we've got so much, you know, data you know, know, data and, you know, there's studies being done know, data and, you know, there it studies being done know, data and, you know, there it just studies being done know, data and, you know, there it just there's s being done know, data and, you know, there it just there's such ng done know, data and, you know, there it just there's such an done now. it just there's such an advantage there. and that's a prime example of, you advantage there. and that's a prime example of , you know, prime example of, you know, retaining advantage . and retaining male advantage. and how younger athletes girls how about younger athletes girls who want to become a professional? you know, there's a pressures in there to a lot of pressures in there to not register an objection about this stuff. yes i agree. a lot of parents have messaged me saying my daughter has had two compete against a boy and she was absolutely devastated when she didn't get the result she wanted, etc. and i just think it would , you know, we could be would, you know, we could be missing out on the next, you know, great british sports star. if, you know, you have , you if, you know, you have, you know, children's dream dreams . know, children's dream dreams. devastated, to be honest, because they're not getting the results they wanted. they could leave etc. it's it leave the sport, etc. it's it all adds up and it's a ripple effect for everyone. do you think things changing are moving in direction? mean, in the right direction? i mean, those that these

those accusations that these kind you're kind of objections that you're raising because hate, raising are because of hate, bigotry of kind of bigotry and all of kind of thing, then just not watching anymore people because people can just fair and can see it's just not fair and that is what it's really that that is what it's really about. it's just fairness. about. yeah, it's just fairness. it's not about hate at all. we want to be included fairly want them to be included fairly in an open category, just to protect the female. the female category . and that's this category. and that's so this open category , athletics uk open category, athletics uk has said that what they want to go for and i think that said for and i think that was said there'll be a male category female and an open category where anyone can participate irrespective of their sex. do you could work on a you think that could work on a practical ? well, it would practical basis? well, it would actually category in actually be a female category in an category. an open category. no male category. so mean, category. okay. so i mean, i think personally, i, i personally that's a great solution right now to compete they'd have to suppress testosterone levels to certain levels with an open category. i'm wondering if they do away with that so they could keep biological, you know, testosterone levels normal say for that per individual and i think that would be a great idea

, you know, to let them be included, but not, you know, put women at a disadvantage. yes. and do you think with all these other developments that are happening when happening in scotland when it comes gender recognition comes the gender recognition bill thing bill and this kind of thing that, moving into that, actually we're moving into a position where we can sort of talk necessity of talk about the necessity of recognition, recognising biological sex how women's biological sex and how women's rights affected by rights are always affected by this yes, agree with this. yes, i would agree with that. this. yes, i would agree with that . i think this. yes, i would agree with that. i think we do need to protect women's rights and protect women's rights and protect women's rights and protect women's privacy . we protect women's privacy. we completely we just think are the ones being put at a disadvantage in those instances. have you had any sort of flak about this which you find uncomfortable ? which you find uncomfortable? obviously, you do get a few people who you know, want to, you know, name, call, people who you know, want to, you know, name, call , etc, people who you know, want to, you know, name, call, etc, on social media, but it really isn't about that . it really is isn't about that. it really is just to keep, you know sport fair. and i've had like 99% positive support, to be honest. it has been so amazing. the everyone that's reached out has been so kind . and, you know, been so kind. and, you know, thank you for doing this. thank you for my daughters and my

nieces except so many nieces except like so many parents, it's so, so, so sweet. well, this is the surprise the thing of having the majority view, that only a minority view, but that only a minority are i suppose it has are willing to i suppose it has to, is a bit difficult, but i made it. i really appreciate you coming on and talking us about it. you very much. thank it. thank you very much. thank you much . and after the you so much. and after the break, i'm free speech nation. we're going to be hearing about a big brother watch investigation, which reveals that government disinformation units have been spying on political dissent and suppressing free speech online. so in a couple of minutes. thanks so much. thank you so much

welcome back to free speech nation. so later in the i'm going to be turning agony. uncle with the help of my panel, josh howie louis schaefer to help you

deal with your unfiltered dilemma as just email us at gb views at gbnews.uk and we will do our best to answer your problems. the campaigning organisation big brother watch has released a report called a ministry of truth which is about what they describe as secretive government units . spying on your government units. spying on your speech. government units. spying on your speech . so the report claims speech. so the report claims that whitehall units monitor government critics online and including mps journalists and the public on the pretext combating what they describe as . so here to tell me more this report. i'm pleased to welcome the advocacy manager for big brother. watch mark johnson johnson . thanks forjoining us, johnson. thanks forjoining us, mark. so you've got a copy of the report there, a ministry of truth. can you start by telling us how this came about? how did you find out this information and what it reveal? so the report is culmination of report is the culmination of months investigation into a months of investigation into a number disinformation units number of disinformation units in government and we'd heard in the government and we'd heard snippets about these units over the last year or two. we knew they were operating and we knew

that had very close that they had a very close relationship with social media companies, which basically gives them censor speech them a hotline to censor speech online. we thought, we really need to find out more about this. the government have been really opaque , these units really opaque, these units really opaque, these units really not letting on about what doing. so we did a big piece of. it was months of research using , open source information, a data access requests as well and freedom of information requests . and what we found really is that far from looking at this , that far from looking at this, actually, a lot , these units, actually, a lot, these units, including the counter disinformation unit, which is probably the largest one, they were looking at a criticism of government policy and actually monitoring dissent, particularly dunng monitoring dissent, particularly during when they during the pandemic when they were you were most active. can you give us some of the kind of us some examples of the kind of people they're monitoring? yep, absolutely. we spoke to absolutely. so we spoke to people across the political spectrum , and we encourage spectrum, and we encourage people to put in these subjects access requests . we can find out access requests. we can find out what the units were. we're looking whether were looking and whether they were looking and whether they were looking people. and looking at these people. and i'll give you one very good example. veteran example. the veteran conservative david davis. he

conservative mp, david davis. he was put into a vaccine hesitancy report and disinformation report , if you like, for criticising the government's vaccine passport policy . we also found passport policy. we also found out that whitehall had basically encouraged the department for health to attack the daily mail for reporting on covid modelling and whether modelling was accurate, but actually, yeah, they went for a full kind of frontal attack on the mail. so there was a kind of freedom of press angle there as well. so a lot of what we found in fact loads of we found really loads of what we found really was they weren't looking at was that they weren't looking at disinformation certainly disinformation and certainly not that case, they're that in this case, they're really going above and beyond that. monitoring that. and they were monitoring dissent criticism dissent and criticism of government i even read government policy. i even read that they recorded a journalist , peter hitchens, sharing an , peter hitchens, for sharing an article on the website, spiked used to write. they they said that pizza was trying to influence a vote in parliament. i mean heaven forbid anyone might try and influence a vote in a democracy , not least a in a democracy, not least a journalist who writing about it,

but another great example of somebody that was actually critical of the government in in that case, he was asking questions for and that he was he was put in one of these disinformation reports. this is a unit which is designed in order to monitor this stuff and they do with the information that they gather . but what's that they gather. but what's most do most worrying is that they do have special relationship have this special relationship with platforms. with the social media platforms. so on, and it so twitter and so on, and it allows them to have a kind of hotline to these platforms and they basically pressure them to take speech. so what we take down speech. so what we found that, yes, they're not looking at disinformation, and that raises real questions about the kind of stuff they the kind of stuff that they might be forcing the censorship of we know how much of online. do we know how much the fully aware of the government is fully aware of what's on? they're what's going on? they're fully aware, unfortunately , does speak aware, unfortunately, does speak to state of free speech in to the state of free speech in the uk at the moment. the government have government ministers have actually about taking actually boasted about taking down in appropriate information onune. down in appropriate information online . that's a quote chris online. that's a quote chris philp used that we're taking down inappropriate information in parliament. he boasted that

and yet they won't be forthcoming about the kind of information and all that we know about these units is basically in this report. and as i said, it's really disinformation. from what can see, it's criticism what we can see, it's criticism and dissent, because we've seen obviously files obviously with the twitter files that being released, the that are being released, the to which there's even been fbi which if there's even been fbi involvement in involvement with twitter in which democrats and republicans have been contacting twitter and saying take down these tweets, please, and they've been complying. absolutely. but we didn't was happening didn't think it was happening here and the here. and it is. and the government about it, government boasting about it, but transparent about but not being transparent about it, is probably very it, which is probably the very worst of all worlds. the relationship government relationship to government and the is converging. they the big tech is converging. they wouldn't like you to think that, but it really is. and the fact thatis but it really is. and the fact that is a hotline of this kind is worrying and needs to be scrutinised fully. and in fact, we're for the cdp, the we're calling for the cdp, the counter disinformation to counter disinformation unit, to be down, to be be to be shut down, to be investigated fully, and for some light on some of light to be shown on some of these practises. you've these practises. now, you've been for that you've been calling for that and you've obviously very obviously compiled this very detailed you detailed report. have you any feedback from the feedback or response from the government so far, the

government so far, the government , the response has government, the response has been quite muted and they haven't denied any of this at all. they've tried to suggest that because lots the information was in the public domain, the mass monitoring and recording of which was critical of them under the guise of disinformation , you know, disinformation, you know, combating disinformation is legitimate. i mean, that's that's what they've said. but no denials at all. and you know, the response across the spectrum has been good as well. we've had mp saying they are concerned. are they looking at, you know, when a conservative member of parliament is in one of these disinformation who by the way, had taken down from youtube dunng had taken down from youtube during the pandemic? david davies yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. you know , who else could they be you know, who else could they be monitoring and i mean, is it just that they don't see this as a problem because this kind of thing has become normalised? i mean, you've got police in scotland recorded scotland who have recorded hundreds of that they've hundreds of jokes that they've onune hundreds of jokes that they've online people that online not told the people that they're recording them, but they've nonetheless. they've recorded it nonetheless. and defend by

and they could defend that by saying, yes, well, we're not taking action. we simply recording have said, recording what people have said, yeah, it really yeah, mean, as i said, it really speaks the kind of where speaks to the kind of where we're terms the health of we're at in terms the health of freedom speech the at the freedom of speech in the at the moment worrying and obviously moment is worrying and obviously all of this is under the shadow of, online safety bill which of, an online safety bill which is still poses is coming, which still poses a major freedom of major threat to freedom of speech the uk to. so speech in the uk to. so unfortunately it's a right that's not doing particularly well that's why work this well that's why work like this is and is really important. try and shine light basically shine a light on basically censorious activities and a relationship that's very uncomfortably close between the government platforms and government and the platforms and one is clearly being used one which is clearly being used to well. and people to censor as well. and people aren't talking that much about to censor as well. and people areronlineing that much about to censor as well. and people areronline safetyt much about to censor as well. and people areronline safety bill. ch about to censor as well. and people areronline safety bill. but bout the online safety bill. but could talk us through could you maybe talk us through precisely feel that it has precisely you feel that it has some negative bearing on freedom of yeah, well, mean, of speech? yeah, well, i mean, basically does is it basically what it does is it outsources, policing outsources, you know, policing onune outsources, you know, policing online tech companies, and that includes policing of speech and. there was a long debate about legal but harmful speech, which we won some of that which was really good. i think they've taken that out of the. that's wrong they took the legal

wrong they took out the legal but to adults provision but harmful to adults provision so talking speech which is so talking about speech which is entirely know entirely lawful but you know subjectively but there subjectively harmful but there are still loads of problems of free speech in and still basically outsource saying, you know, the policing to the platforms which is it? is it just that they don't understand where this can lead? i mean, i presume that you you are concerned about a slippery slope, suppose, but why slope, i suppose, but but why can't government, can't a government, a particularly conservative government speech government say that free speech needs think needs to be upheld? i think when you've been in government for as long as this government have, obviously can complacent, obviously you can complacent, particularly it comes to particularly when it comes to and protecting liberties and protecting civil liberties and protecting civil liberties and you know , if and when at and you know, if and when at some point in the future they do lose an election, i'm sure come to. so it's a really realise how important civil liberties are when that when they're not you know sat on the throne. and do you any confidence you have any confidence that a labour government do better . we labour government do better. we would be very interested to see on the online safety bill. i've been quite disappointed far been quite disappointed so far with heard from with what we've heard from labour but we will just have to labour, but we will just have to take it as it comes. yeah,

that's right. yeah. yeah. i rather nervously that it's gonna be bad either way anyway. mark johnson, thanks very much for joining . us johnson, thanks very much for joining. us and after johnson, thanks very much for joining . us and after the break, joining. us and after the break, i'm free speech nation. fraser miners will be here to tell about the strange case of a classic tom jones hit being banned by the welsh rugby union. see you in just a couple of minutes .

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation . the wales rugby team nation. the wales rugby team lost opening match their six nafions lost opening match their six nations campaign to ireland yesterday and a quiet performing before the match were ordered not to play the tom classic delilah, which long been considered an anthem of welsh rugby. the welsh rugby made the decision on the basis that the lyrics of the song can be considered and of domestic violence . critics of the ban say

violence. critics of the ban say it is patronising to think fans would take the lyrics so literally while suggesting the union would do better to address allegations toxic, which union would do better to address allegaired; toxic, which union would do better to address allegaired in toxic, which union would do better to address allegaired in bbc>xic, which union would do better to address allegaired in bbc documentary were aired in bbc documentary last week. spike's deputy editor fraser myers has written about this issue and he joins me now. is it the family as having so high in preparation for this read the lyrics of denial of acceptance not familiar with the song and it does talk about a man who stamps his girlfriend to death because she cheats on him . it's a very violent imagery though. isn't that a reason enough to not have it in a pubuc enough to not have it in a public place? well let's remember, this is all imaginary . this is not even a description of a real act of violence . it's of a real act of violence. it's certainly not encouraging people to go out and commit similar acts of violence. it's a song. it's kind of murder ballad. it's similar. some people have compared it to carmen, the opera, where spoiler alert. if you haven't , if you're not you haven't, if you're not familiar , communists stop. familiar, communists stop. because she says she's going to leave the main character another

man. and it's very similar with songs, like, mack the knife and that kind of thing. exactly i think generally, you know, until recently we people were trusted , listen to these kinds of lyrics sing along these lyrics and sing along to these kinds without thinking kinds of lyrics without thinking that being incited to that they were being incited to commit acts of violence. so it's not the point is , not the not the point is, not the objection that people feel that if you hear a song about violence will then go out and commit it. is that or is it commit it. is that the or is it just that people think it's distasteful because are distasteful because there are families there and children there of. i think there in that kind of. i think i think that's a bit of both. so welsh rugby union said it's, you know, potentially offensive and things also know things like that, but also know there view. chris there is this view. chris bryant, mp , very bryant, the labour mp, very explicitly linked the song to a rise in domestic violence . he rise in domestic violence. he says domestic violence spikes whenever there's a rugby match and not because of tom jones. well you and i know obviously well i you and i know obviously tom jones is not the cause of this but he's made that link explicit. there was also the head of powis police made a similar claim. he said, you know , a certain number of women are murdered each week. wales and

that's we've to stop that's why we've got to stop singing song. i mean , you singing this song. i mean, you know, are pretty know, these are pretty extraordinary lengths to draw. no, don't think. anyone is no, i don't think. anyone is heanng no, i don't think. anyone is hearing to tom song hearing the lyrics to tom song and inspired to commit an and being inspired to commit an act of god. do you think it would be a stronger argument then look, this then to say, well, look, this then to say, well, look, this the just isn't appropriate the song just isn't appropriate because nature this? because of the nature of this? i mean, there are certain songs we wouldn't wouldn't sing wouldn't sing. we wouldn't sing songs excessive sexually songs with excessive sexually imagery, wouldn't sing justify my imagery, wouldn't sing justify my at the my love. i'm madonna at the rugby would you? i rugby match, would you? well, i think that we also to be a bit real here. i mean, it's like right the end the song, right at the end of the song, it's, know, it's a handful it's, you know, it's a handful of words the end of the song. of words at the end of the song. it's this is not the reason people are singing it. they're singing it because it's, you know, lends being know, lends itself to being shouted really quite shouted out. it's really quite melodious, you it's melodious, you know, it's and it's jones. jones it's tom jones. it's tom jones know. you know, there know. and there, you know, there are more violent songs out are far more violent songs out there in the world. i don't know if you're of the music of if you're a fan of the music of coal country, but, know, you coal country, but, you know, you can can hear songs every day can you can hear songs every day about people but that's about people being. but that's the it, that the point, isn't it, that if there was a drill drill song at there was a drill drill song at

the rugby, they would they the rugby, they would be they could let's not do could say, well, let's not do that. i think they shouldn't. let's not that. i couldn't let's not say that. i couldn't say catching the welsh say that catching on the welsh effect. i think at effect. but you know, i think at the of the day what this the end of the day what this comes down to and with all acts of censorship, it's distrusting the right? it's about the public, right? it's about believing that obviously, you know, or a police officer know, an mp or a police officer could listen delilah. they could listen to delilah. they could listen to delilah. they could why it's wrong, could understand why it's wrong, whereas and whereas those sickos who go and watch rugby game, get watch a rugby game, who go get drunk, know, can't be drunk, you know, they can't be trusted you know , trusted to, you know, essentially differentiate fiction from reality. and we've seen this a lot heavily with with songs such as baby it's cold outside, which people have said sexual assault said is about sexual assault encouraging commit encouraging people to commit sexual you sexual assault because, you know, woman persuaded she know, the woman is persuaded she keeps advances, keeps rebuffing his advances, saying, you know , i actually saying, you know, i actually should go home. and he's saying cold outside. yes. and i think someone the lyrics in someone rerecorded the lyrics in a progressive yeah. a more progressive way. yeah. there kelly clarkson there a kind of kelly clarkson and legend read and they and john legend read it and they emphasised consent the implications it's not implications of choice. it's not as good so it's there is a kind of literal minded reading of what after all, an artistic what is, after all, an artistic piece of work. yeah. and

similarly we had the debates about pogues song fairytale about the pogues song fairytale of which every of new york, which happens every christmas, every christmas, someone that band someone tries to get that band on the basis it's on there on the basis that it's homophobic or whatever, even though that clearly it's that's not so just not the intention. so is it just that we to sort of get back that we have to sort of get back to point that when an to this point that when an artist like either artist creates like either a poem or song or a film or a poem or a song or a film or a book, they're not necessarily endorsing goes on within endorsing what goes on within it. hope it's such a it. you would hope it's such a simple concept, and yet it evades, even evades, you know, even politicians and even, you know, top police. yeah. you top in the police. yeah. you have just recognise that, you have to just recognise that, you know, about violent know, talking about a violent act or, you know, reproducing a violent act is , not the same as violent act is, not the same as endorsing not the same as endorsing it and not the same as encouraging it. think it's encouraging it. but i think it's because, you know, we all agree incitement to violence is a thing and the enemies free speech cottoned to this speech have cottoned on to this argument . they say that anything argument. they say that anything that like is an that they don't like is an incitement violence and incitement to violence and incitement to violence and incitement misogyny. why incitement to misogyny. but why is and have is that? i mean, you and i have discussed this before, but there has decades of research has been six decades of research into theories. yeah, we into media theories. yeah, we know a matter of fact that popular culture, artistic entertainment, popular culture, artistic entertainment , this kind of

entertainment, this kind of thing, doesn't have a trickle down effect on public behaviour. that's been now beyond all doubt . so why do we keep coming back to based position of to this faith based position of the arts? have the to corrupt the arts? have the to corrupt the great unwashed. i think that you know this idea has always been around and there just different i think what's changed is that there's always been kind of pearl clutches. there's always sort mary always the sort of mary whitehouse figures, but now whitehouse type figures, but now it's more the kind of it's more of the kind of progressives are making progressives who are making these you it these of arguments. you know, it used to to be used to be used to be fundamentalist christians or not even fundamentalist christians, just, strong just, you know, strong christians who objected sex christians who objected to sex and violence television. now, and violence on television. now, it's of types who it's the kind of woke types who are they're standing are they think they're standing up minorities. they think up for minorities. they think that standing up for but that standing up for women. but really, patronising us really, they're patronising us all talking down to everyone all and talking down to everyone on hand, i've heard a on the other hand, i've heard a lot saying that that lot of people saying that that sam smith's video, the latest video because video ought to be banned because it imagery. but it has sexualised imagery. but of have been sexualised of course, have been sexualised imagery in pop music forever. yeah, pop go yeah, i mean, sex and pop go hand—in—hand, you know , people hand—in—hand, you know, people wanted people were disgusted wanted to people were disgusted elvis you know, shaking hips and

that seems ridiculously time to us now . but back that seems ridiculously time to us now. but back in the that seems ridiculously time to us now . but back in the day, you us now. but back in the day, you know, people were talking about that corrupting the minds of young generations. yes now there's, you know, sam smith's music video is interesting on a number for a number of different reasons, partly because it's kind of his he's attempting express his authentic non binary identity and you know you can take issue with that but you don't ban it which you want to ban it i don't think is very interesting, actually subversive. ironically actually very much in line with the kind of establishment in line , of establishment it's in line, the we're all kind of the view that we're all kind of we're all gender fluid, don't we really. that's the point. there was whereas there's images by prince they were prince and madonna and they were very much back against establishment his is just establishment ideas. his is just confirming it. yeah. first of all, thank you so much for joining us. forward to . that's joining us. forward to. that's it for the first hour of the program but plenty more to come after the break. when josh, howie and louis schaefer will be back to field, more questions from our wonderful live studio

audience. do not go anywhere. see you in moment moment.

plenty more still to come on, free speech nation this week, including more questions , the including more questions, the audience. a discussion about why audience. a discussion about why a statue of four time prime minister william gladstone has been hidden from view by a church . we meet the church. and we will meet the mother is suing her son's mother who is suing her son's school because she says he was forced attend a event. but forced to attend a event. but first, let's get latest news from karen armstrong . hi there from karen armstrong. hi there i'm howard armstrong in the gb newsroom a private underwater rescue company will join the search for nicholas belly as fresh images of the missing mother of two have been released. the specialist diving company sgi will assist police

the river water after offering its services free of charge. it comes out after the first images of nicola on the day she disappeared were released by her family. lancashire believe she fell into the river. sgi chief executive peter folding says many elements of that theory don't add up . nicola was last don't add up. nicola was last seen in the top field by that by the witness. you know, there's nothing to say. she couldn't have been kidnapped and dragged and put in a car and taken and someone could have put a mobile phone by the river as a decoy or nicola wanted to disappear. it just ring right. the just doesn't ring right. the amount of searches that's gone on in this river. the body , if on in this river. the body, if there was only in there is no way you're going to go all the way you're going to go all the way down to the sea. not with us. that current. the us. that that current. the police have. again, apologise to the victims of the serial rapist . david carrick ahead of his sentencing hearing tomorrow. the sacked police constable has admitted 49 criminal charges, including 24 counts of rape

against 12 women. the says they're truly sorry for the harm and devastation carrick caused to the victims, saying he should never have been a police officer. the man also says they're determined to address issues in the force in the weeks since he pleaded guilty . we have since he pleaded guilty. we have spoken hour by our genuine and urgent commitment to address the systemic failings that have been identified . our own reviews by identified. our own reviews by those of his majesty's inspectorate and baroness qc . we inspectorate and baroness qc. we are determined to root out those who corrupt our integrity and that work is already underway. the uk's biggest nurses union has offered to call off next week's planned strikes in england if the prime minister makes new meaningful pay offer. the options appeal to rishi sunak match offers made by the welsh and scottish governments , welsh and scottish governments, both of which have led to being suspended. nurses ambulance staff are combining tomorrow. why they predict , is to be the

why they predict, is to be the biggest day of strike action in the history of the nhs . the history of the nhs. ukraine's says it is expecting a possible major new offensive from russia this month as the anniversary of the invasion approaches . defence minister approaches. defence minister alexi resnikoff ukraine will be able to hold off moscow's forces , despite not all of the west's reinforcements arriving in time. however, the country's minister, dmytro kuleba , says ukraine will dmytro kuleba, says ukraine will up to 140 battle tanks on tuesday in what he's described as first wave of reinforcements being supplied by a western coalition of 12 countries. tv online dab+ radio. this is gb news. now back to free speech nafion news. now back to free speech nation . nation. welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. let's get some more questions

from the lovely audience. and our first question is from packer. andrew . how packer. hello. hi, andrew. how is the success of gpt jpt being built on underpaid labour? yeah, this is quite a scary story. i was in time magazine and you'll know that gpt , which is one of know that gpt, which is one of these big technological advances which creates words and ideas by scouring various sources on the internet . this is a chat bot. it internet. this is a chat bot. it generates text on any topic that you like. it was recently recently produced test english essay , which was given an eight essay, which was given an eight star grade. that's how sort of goodit star grade. that's how sort of good it can be. but this time investigation has shown that the creator the company that created openai used to outsource to kenyan labourers who were earning less than $2 an hour to try and make the site less toxic. and just this is really a horrible story because these workers first started being gross , grotesquely underpaid for gross, grotesquely underpaid for their work . gross, grotesquely underpaid for their work. but then gross, grotesquely underpaid for their work . but then the work their work. but then the work they are asked to do is to effectively find examples of

which is either vile or illegal or depicts abuse or or sexual and or violence so that the, the chat bot can learn to not generate language like that. so yourjob is generate language like that. so your job is effectively to sit there and find the worst possible examples of humanity. and this is resulting a lot of trauma they've had no support or very little support. i mean, what's going on here? yeah. so as you say, like the whole point of this, this is it's such is all the internet and need a way to sort of differenti chat between like the bad stuff out there and obviously is a lot of bad stuff out there. yeah. so these people, they would label this and some of was this stuff and some of it was like like was like pretty wit. like it was like pretty wit. like it was like and you had like batman and robin. you had robin sexually abused by robin being sexually abused by one of the villains or whatever your shake is that like, did you write that back? i'm saying, okay. and but yeah, it is serious. and company was serious. and the company was being paid. this kenyan company is and a half is paid like 12 and a half dollars per hour. and then the workers are getting $2. okay,

use the story. yeah yeah, just off it. and but but they they cease trading with them because then it moved onto images and so these people were having to go through some of the worst imaginable label it as abuse or death or whatever it is . and death or whatever it is. and they really were traumatised from it and that's of course what they're like. you know, you got past the police, so that's their job got past the police, so that's theirjob as got past the police, so that's their job as well got past the police, so that's theirjob as well but at least their job as well but at least they get the counselling and the training be able to mentally deal with it. these people now becoming god that becoming ill, god is that they're knowing they're going into that knowing that they have that that's their they have remunerated appropriately, they're an hour. they're not getting $2 an hour. you that is the thing. it's you know that is the thing. it's a different it is an exploitative practise clearly absolute. like absolute. but then it's like everything that we do is exploitative. yeah, it's scale of in terms of that. the 10th of it in terms of that. the 10th fold sort of increase decrease of the wages, but you know, anything that we do someone down the chain is, is, is getting i don't want to say the word but yeah, i know exactly what you meant. what do you think about this? levels i mean, gtp, i

mean, as a concept, are you happy with this concept that there these computers now there are these computers now that to generate that will be able to generate novels, plays literature and novels, plays and literature and art well, you can do art to this? well, you can do stand comedy make you stand up comedy make you redundant. it's redundant. yeah, well, it's actually asked them. i asked them why asked chad cbt why them to why i asked chad cbt why they should go see my show on they should go see my show on the 23rd of february. yeah and they, they, they said some very nice things about louis schaefer . yeah. yeah. so whatever they want do , poor kenyan people , want to do, poor kenyan people, you know, as , as people come to you know, as, as people come to your show, it's okay as long, as they say nice things. they didn't mention any the horrible things that if you search the internet very you might internet very closely you might find. well, exactly. that's what surprises me about that, because that's going to happen. that's what's going to happen. i mean, this is you guys are so ridiculous. this whole story is like a total non—story. the fact is, that every enterprise is is, is that every enterprise is built under and theoretically built on under and theoretically underpaid work. right. but that's not right, is it? it is right. because somebody wants to do something for nothing. am i am i making as much money as you? andrew, this that's not

you? andrew, is this that's not going business is this enterprise is being built on the backs of lewis schafer. people me providing the comedy am i, am i being paid enough? that's the question and if i join twitter, you should be paid which is me more maybe you know who knows who knows? now i think you're me. so are you saying want to get $2 an hour ? i don't want to get $2 an hour? i don't want to go that far. do you? i'd like to be paid something just so everyone knows. lewis is paid for his time here . and i'm for his time here. and i'm pretty. well, i think that i think considering who i am considering considering the trouble you get me into. i think you should be. you know what else wants me? i think that's okay. and in a way you can say that listen to me. not you know, we should give the money in we should give all the money in the world. free money like the nurses drivers nurses in the train. drivers just the money. but just throw out the money. but the fact is, is that these people, kenya, lovely people, kenyans, to people, kenya, lovely people, ke|itans, to people, kenya, lovely people, ke|it fo;, to people, kenya, lovely people, ke|it fo r £2 to people, kenya, lovely people, ke|it fo r £2 an to people, kenya, lovely people, ke|it fo r £2 an hour to people, kenya, lovely people, ke|it fo r £2 an hour or to people, kenya, lovely people, ke|it fo r £2 an hour or £1 to people, kenya, lovely people, ke|it fo r £2 an hour or £1 ano do it for £2 an hour or £1 an houn do it for £2 an hour or £1 an hour, whatever they with hour, whatever they go with their and they don't have a their poor and they don't have a choice maybe poor. choice yes, maybe they're poor. and maybe if they don't want to

take the money, they shouldn't be they should be poor. maybe they should work on oh mean, he's just be poor. maybe they should work on oh mean, he'sjust a on that. oh i mean, he's just a contrarian. neither contrarian. it's neither so think think just sold the think i think he's just sold the world yeah, it is sort world hunger. yeah, it is sort of that. it's like, you of like that. it's like, you know matter of fact, you know and matter of fact, you know, you're saying that they're being forced to look at horrible images, horrible, but images, which is horrible, but they're advance you they're told in advance you can look images. look at horrible images. and we're you look at horrible images. and we're going to give yo look at horrible images. and wmonth,ng to give yo look at horrible images. and wmonth, which|ive yo look at horrible images. and wmonth, which is; yo look at horrible images. and wmonth, which is a, o look at horrible images. and wmonth, which is a, well, never a month, which is a, well, never let it be said that we don't have a breadth of opinion here on this show. move on to on this show. can i move on to a question from steve is question from steve where is steve? andrew? steve. so my steve? andrew? hi, steve. so my question is, is it offensive to call french the french? yes. well, associated well, apparently the associated press, criticised press, they were criticised this week. was a tweet which week. there was a tweet which associated press put saying the articles should avoid using, quote, dehumanising labels such as the french now, i think and by the way, this was completely by the way, this was completely by the way, this was completely by the french embassy in the states who tweeted out saying they should now be known as the embassy frenchness and then embassy of frenchness and then ap said that the use the ap later said that the use the french in this tweet was inappropriate and caused unintended you unintended offence. but, you know, the know, look, first ties the

french cares but the french so who cares but the other the other thing is other thing the other thing is like it was really about the use of the definite article, wasn't it? in the way it? because it's like in the way that say the poor right or that you say the poor right or the gays like that that's it's the gays like that that's it's the that is the offensive part and yeah we should saying but that's just get rid the definite articles you just said it like the definitions keep a stop say add to our definite article . add to our definite article. they they they yeah . yeah they they they yeah. yeah something like that. i mean it is all a bit of an overreaction isn't it. but it's funny because they obviously chose that example. they thought, well that's the least most offensive and offensive that i'm and the least offensive that i'm sorry, was i but yeah they they thought that saying like, thought that saying that like, you the french rather you know, like the french rather than gays or any of than say the gays or any of those into trouble. those will get you into trouble. yes which now someone is going to clip and get me into trouble . yeah. but yeah, they get . yeah. but yeah, they will get all say french and all don't say the french and then. yes, no you can't even say french. so it does. i mean i think they were trying avoid think they were trying to avoid offence and who knew that offence there and who knew that the wasn't too. well, the french wasn't too. well, this surprise because the this is a surprise because the french much better than

french are so much better than you that we keep using you people. i that we keep using the phrase the french stopped it. but this is a very old problem that i recognised when i was in new york and how you address people. i'm a jew. nobody wants to be called the jew . oh, here comes the jew to jew. oh, here comes the jew to me . so i have because that's me. so i have because that's your stock in trade to every time we do these shows you're trying to i'm just i'll call you the newish over the one and only but to put but the point is and maybe andrew has done something to the jews and he's trying to make up for it by having the two jewish people . what did you do? jewish people. what did you do? i think you do always have. the worst part of this is that this is anti diverse anyway. the point is it's the same in america. this comes from, i think, an american thing is that in america, when i'm on stage when i speak to black people , i when i speak to black people, i call them black people. when i speak to jewish people, i call them jewish people. when you call someone the blacks or the

jew jews, right. it does. so in a way they're right . problem is a way they're right. problem is why this is so funny is that the french are so much head and shoulders better than us that it's like. but also i don't think it's the same as the gays because actually french, the french we say the english, we say this not to say i mean, i don't think it's ever been considered before. considered offensive before. has so also it's interesting so but also it's interesting because when we say so i'm like the english there's actually something there something weirdly positive there depending on how you. yeah it's in the tone isn't it. it's in the tone isn't it. yeah. it's like you know for i doesn't like you know for i that doesn't bnng like you know for i that doesn't bring negative associations bring up negative associations that's the good that's like there are the good things like killing things that we're like killing and yeah the english breakfast or whatever it is that's all we go have to be a negative thing. i mean if you like the french. yeah if you spit as you say , yeah if you spit as you say, like they do. well yeah . they like they do. well yeah. they have no manners do they . yeah. have no manners do they. yeah. right. let's move on now . our right. let's move on now. our next question is from mary with mary . hi, mary. next question is from mary with mary. hi, mary. should we start prosecute classes 0 classes this

be with the people i'm familiar with. there was an article week by alex ben in independent which was arguing that there should be a law banning classism. so if you it's i call it i say classism. unbelievable and it was funny. that was funnier than . it was very funny. yeah. and they probably didn't get it because this audience is this this article is arguing that, of course, class or class, if you're posh , tends to be you're posh, tends to be something that is ignored. when we're talking about discrimination people often talk about transphobia, homophobia , about transphobia, homophobia, sexism, etc, but class really get a look in. i mean what i you know i think he's obviously got a point the only downside is that he's independent that he's in the independent which of the most which is one of the most identitarian that currently identitarian rags that currently that he's always pushing identity class and money identity over class and money and inequality. so but and economic inequality. so but it's to that someone, it's good to see that someone, one their writers, is sort one of their writers, is sort of getting getting it's getting getting the it's frustrating they frustrating because when they did year into did the report last year into race any to go into racism in race or any to go into racism in this and when it came this country and when it came out they basically that out and they were basically that a of it was to down monetary

a lot of it was to down monetary and equality. yeah not making it work, you know. everyone was work, you know. and everyone was sort pooh poohing you sort of pooh poohing it and you know, it's all because of systemic the systemic racism and stuff. the reality your reality is, of course, your upbringing going to have a massive impact on you, on your own, your future , and how much own, your future, and how much money of and how i'm money you have of and how i'm going to keep to on have an all of and that's whole country, of it. and that's whole country, this whole world, the is built on who you know and those advantages you get and from an early age and continue the rest of your life. exactly. and i'm really grateful. yeah. i mean, louis, you must understand this. i mean, like, if you i mean, like, you know, if you have those contacts, all have all those contacts, all that comes wealth or that that comes from wealth or that that comes from wealth or that or the confidence that privilege or the confidence you being raised in a you get from being raised in a wealthy family, you know, you do have advantage. that have a massive advantage. that should really. and should be the focus really. and if on class if you focus on class inequality, inequality, if you focus on class inequou're inequality, if you focus on class inequou're going inequality, if you focus on class inequou're going to inequality, if you focus on class inequou're going to solve ality, then you're going to solve all these issues race, these other issues of race, genden these other issues of race, gender, sexuality, all the rest of it? no, because at the end of the day, there are a million reasons why people don't like me. all about you, me. and it's all about you, louis, i'm thinking louis, because i'm thinking to myself, social myself, because what what social class people not class am i people going to not like me because because

like me because i'm because well—educated don't well—educated americans don't have literally . have any class literally. i would find it difficult to identify what class background you come from. yeah i think that would be quite hard is that deliberate in in a way because americans have that class. so we're yeah. everyone in america is quite rich , aren't they. i've is quite rich, aren't they. i've never see tv shows, everyone's houses huge and they have more stuff. yes. yeah, but the point is like with me i grew up having a very strong brooklyn accent which was is that what you've got now. yes. basically yeah, yeah. even though i've been to speech to get rid of it . and speech to get rid of it. and that's the god's honest truth because . it meant it had because. it meant it had a negative connotation . but negative connotation. but sometimes just because someone a posh kind of a posh aspect that they could be, they could be judged negatively . so they could judged negatively. so they could be. yes could be. often they can. you're looking for a basket ball player, let's say. you know what, i you're looking for someone , but surely any good. someone, but surely any good. i mean, the left traditionally has always been about redressing

economic always been about redressing ec01for1ic always been about redressing ec01for working class people. out for working class people. and of dropped the ball and they've of dropped the ball on this identity on that since this identity movement years movement started about 12 years ago. just let ago. they really have just let it and often demonised the it slip and often demonised the working a they're working. and so it's a they're the problem. they're really of racist and homophobes waiting to commit actually commit a pogrom. and actually it's refreshing to it's quite refreshing to see a left publication like the left wing publication like the independent address the independent finally address the issue ignored so issue that they've ignored so long. yeah, that actually makes sense. had that. sense. i wish i had said that. there anyway, we're going there we go. anyway, we're going to on to a question to move on now to a question from neil and where is neil? you are neil. hello should feminist students exclude transgender women? so the universe , the women? so the universe, the student union bosses have agreed there's been this ruling that feminist student societies can have a single sex space and that means excluding those who identify as women. but a male. and this is bristol students union was criticised they had disciplined the feminist group women back and its president and rachel rosaria sanchez who appeared on this program to discuss that case. and i thought it was really interesting

talking to her and her point was we have we're going to be discussing sexual women who've been trauma, rape , this been through trauma, rape, this kind of thing. and she wants it to be a single sex base for women and. yet they were completely castigated for this. now that, i'm glad that this as it's the right outcome. absolutely and it's sign of absolutely and it's a sign of wheels slowly turning . and it's wheels slowly turning. and it's also a sign of what taken, which is a bunch of grassroots standing up for their rights and taking those things court and the court system in this that has really saved us from the madness. and that's interesting isn't it, in terms of all of these different things. time they have the fact that they have to go to court. is it safe? which is sad. and people having spent much money and this has all raised basically all raised, raised basically normal people not far right normal people, not the far right donating as they want to be sort of. well, they always say, yeah, they it, but that's not what it's at all. every step it's been at all. but every step of maya fawcett of this from maya fawcett onwards its those rights onwards has its those rights have established through have been established through the system. but a worry

the uk court system. but a worry now and i was talking to helen joyce about this insofar as yes we've seen a lot of lawfare is what call it. i spoke also to sarah who is a sarah fentiman, who is a barrister and i was discussing these about, know, can these ideas about, you know, can rely the courts, come in, rely on the courts, come in, rely on the courts, come in, rely judiciary to sort rely on the judiciary to sort this seems to be this out there seems to be a general feeling that the courts are, an extent, quite are, to an extent, quite ideologically that ideologically captured, but that the courts so the high courts are okay. so eventually, if you keep well, some will prevail . but some of them will prevail. but the is the institutions the problem is the institutions then don't know about you know just like how the policing and the non hate crimes all that stuff that stuff might have been established in court that it was wrong illegal yeah, then wrong or illegal yeah, but then it didn't filter down to the grassroots. just time for grassroots. we just got time for one question. i'm going to one more question. i'm going to get from richard. is get this from richard. where is richard? richard. i'm here, richard? hi, richard. i'm here, andrew. is this andrew. and my dilemma is this when children were younger, i told fairy tale stories . when children were younger, i told fairy tale stories. but when, if and when i have grandchildren , them the same grandchildren, them the same fairy stories will be deemed inappropriate and beyond the pale. oh, absolutely. they will be. now, you might have heard of

this storytelling, which has rewritten lots of old fairy tales for a modern audience. this was the actress kara tointon. i think is how you pronounce it . and it's different pronounce it. and it's different versions of cinderella where the heroine suggests the princess to quickly , you've got sleeping quickly, you've got sleeping beauty, where the princess is not woken up with a kiss and kind of thing. and there was a survey that found that 40% of generation z that these fables are inappropriate and things like this. it's always been the case. of these old stories. case. some of these old stories. have read grimm's fairy and have you read grimm's fairy and that kind of thing? they're full of vile and all sorts of unpleasantness. if you unpleasantness. you know, if you think straw think about the story of straw peter, the character the peter, the character with the shock, lot of violence shock, to put a lot of violence in, those old children's stories and kids that, they taught and kids like that, they taught and kids like that, they taught a and people hope. a lesson and gave people hope. and that they're and the fact that they're rewriting should rewriting it, they should rewrite cinderella be rewrite it. cinderella be rewritten. the idea that someone goes scullery she's a you goes from a scullery she's a you know, a chamber maid. yeah, she's a maid. he's a maid. know, a chamber maid. yeah, she's a maid. he's a maid . she's she's a maid. he's a maid. she's got find the true love of her got to find the true love of her life. not. she's going life. no she's not. she's going to career and be to go into a career and be single for the rest of her life

and never have any children. so. okay, so let's say you're a she was about realism. i think i think they rewrite it think they should rewrite it because one wants to because because no one wants to read have no read the women today have no hope. have no hope. what's the hope. i have no hope. what's the other one about being kissed, the is in bed waiting to the woman is in bed waiting to kissed and no guy's to kissed and no guy's going to kissed and no guy's going to kiss fear being. me, kiss for the fear of being. me, too. sitting there alone too. so sitting there all alone shouldn't . should know she'll shouldn't. should know she'll never again. lewis right never get again. is lewis right . josh, should we just rewrite these stories make more these stories and make them more realistic? just wish that realistic? i just wish. that lewis father . i know it lewis was my father. i know it is one of the stories. they've reversed it so that it's the frog is now the princess. yeah. that's not going to work because guys will just snog anything for goodness , you know, i think goodness, you know, i think there's a place for like i think that's an over protectionist idea children this idea that kids can't handle this kind of stuff. i remember reading some very stories when was a kid and really enjoyed them and i learned a lesson, know i did and i really enjoyed and i learnt how to socialise off the back of them, you know, like there was that there's a children's

that story, there's a children's story biting your nails story about biting your nails and there's a character, huge scissors. he cuts children's scissors. he cuts off children's fingers their nails. fingers if they buy their nails. i want my fingers i didn't want to have my fingers chopped off, so i didn't bite my nails. how works? nails. you see how it works? yeah. yeah, hiding yeah. yes yeah, he says, hiding his hands. but yeah, like that's even things like roald dahl and whatnot. i may not be a whatnot. yeah. i may not be a fan, but the stories fan, the man, but the stories there that's what are there, that's what kids are drawn yeah, they look. and drawn to. yeah, they look. and they these themes they do that. all these themes that been around now for that have been around now for thousands years, that have got humanity to this point. and of course, they're not meant to be read literally. yeah but there are lessons we learn are lessons that we learn and who we along? and who are we to come along? and then them up or what. but then mess them up or what. but then mess them up or what. but then you know, then saying that, you know, texts being reinterpreted texts are being reinterpreted through yeah, then through time and. yeah, but then if sanitise stories, if you sanitise these stories, i mean the kids, what find to mean the kids, what you find to enjoy as i don't know that enjoy as much, i don't know that 100% agree with they one they want bad stuff. yeah of want the bad stuff. yeah of course enjoying course it's not about enjoying it's the want to you it's the you want to you went with andrew you to learn not with you andrew you to learn not to bite your nails maybe some point in the future nail biting will considered to be great will be considered to be great thing . i mean, not that they're

thing. i mean, not that they're cutting off their genitals and that's considered a good thing. maybe cutting off nails as maybe cutting off your nails as well is on the i'll be honest i would have never have predicted that there was the medicalisation of mostly gay kids seen as kids and that was seen as progressive no one saw that coming, biting nails, think coming, no biting nails, i think we can agree, is pretty we can all agree, is pretty gross should never come gross and should never come back. what? maybe back. do you know what? maybe not and you're speaking to not okay. and you're speaking to jews. lot of nail biting jews. we do a lot of nail biting . a matter fact. as a . as a matter of fact. as a matter fact. think there's matter of fact. think there's proof bite their proof that people who bite their nails a better immune nails have a better immune system people who've system than people who've done all is a stereotype all right. this is a stereotype i wasn't aware of though that you can google i might be making it are making it up. but it up you are making it up. but by means, can google by all means, can google everything says. everything that louis says. yeah, it will be. yeah, but most of it will be. you're supposed interrupt you're supposed to interrupt and say what you done, and say what you haven't done, and it's like we haven't. we haven't verified that we're like, not that thing. that's a that verify thing. that's just a given. i the audience that given. i think the audience that everything you say is nonsense and they shouldn't take it and that they shouldn't take it seriously. think that's just seriously. i think that's just that. now. okay that. no of upsets him now. okay well after the break i'm free speech we're going to be speech nation we're going to be asking of four time

asking why a statue of four time prime minister william gladstone has been removed place has been removed from its place outside in liverpool. outside a church in liverpool. see in a minutes. outside a church in liverpool. see in a minutes . your.

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation because i was william gladstone was a prominent liberal politician of the 19th century who served for 12 years as prime minister in four non—consecutive terms, non—consecutive term s, undoubtedly significant non—consecutive terms, undoubtedly significant figure undoubtedly a significant figure in history, but a statue of gladstone has been removed from outside church in while its outside the church in while its suitability debated. the question has arisen because gladstone father owned in the caribbean. although his son strongly the practise. joining me to discuss this i'm delighted to welcome the historian and political commentator david oldroyd . david forjoining us oldroyd. david forjoining us today this is a very peculiar one because when it comes to gladstone you couldn't have been more unequivocal in his condemnation of slavery and yet

here he is being effectively for the sins of his father. well, exactly . the sins of the father exactly. the sins of the father shouldn't be visited the sons. but when it to black lives but when it comes to black lives matter, doesn't seem that matter, it doesn't seem that that effect. what's that takes effect. what's happened typical the happened here is typical of the church of at the moment church of england at the moment in, black matter was in, 2020, black lives matter was a protest and the church of a big protest and the church of england knickers in a england got its knickers in a twist they thought, oh twist because they thought, oh my god, we've this my god, we've got this anti—slavery thing and we've anti—slavery thing on and we've got money from slavery got so much money from slavery so such. what so much property and such. what do so what done do we do? so what they've done is seized upon one of the most inappropriate people could possibly seize upon in gladstone. the reason gladstone. he the reason that the there, which is the bust was there, which is funded with heritage funded in part with heritage lottery was lottery funding in 2013, was because gladstone came from seaforth in liverpool his father's john father's house. sirjohn less than a with seaforth mansion and at our lady start of the he worshipped there so they thought put outside it put this bust outside it couldn't possibly bring up any any controversy and of course it could . that's his first speech. could. that's his first speech. his maiden , as they call it, was his maiden, as they call it, was defending the rights of west indian slave owners . but that indian slave owners. but that was the only speech, i think

that i know of in which he did so he later came to condemn slavery intensely and without any without any sense that he thought that this was something that, ooh, you know, times have changed. he just said it terrible. yes. as he called it consummation utterly to be desired. the utter illumined of slavery and when he was president of the board of trade, 1844, he halved duties on sugar from non slave using countries in order to try persuade brazil and spain that they should aboush and spain that they should abolish slavery. and this was directly the interests of his own father. sir gladstone wrote to the times, saying that this should not happen and he , his should not happen and he, his son, really did break apart on this. so where's this coming from? really all from? all they really are all these activists clamouring for this be removed? of this bust to be removed? no. of course is a typical course not. this is a typical instance the church instance of the church of england getting, i said, england getting, as i said, getting in a twist getting its knickers in a twist about few people online who about a few people online who might have said something. yes three and three years ago. and now refusing put an refusing to put out an unequivocal statement and actually looked at the actually having looked at the

evidence, because this is about the what gladstone the evidence of what gladstone did the perception of a few did, not the perception of a few uninformed people. there is no reason that statue, this reason that this statue, this bust, should not be on display. and keep having argument and yet we keep having argument about mean, had about gladstone. i mean, we had it with the gladstone in liverpool. there was one of the dormitories the university dormitories at the university i believe. from believe. yes, renamed from glasgow but renamed glasgow gladstone, but renamed after dorothy correa as a marxist , who who actually marxist, who who actually supported the stalinist regime even after the forced labour camps were exposed . someone is camps were exposed. someone is actually pro—slavery. well, indeed. actually pro—slavery. well, indeed . are we going to, for indeed. are we going to, for instance, ban the sydney and beatrice webb buildings, have them london school them renamed the london school economics? were economics? suppose they were great supporters , stalinism, great supporters, stalinism, even found out , great supporters, stalinism, even found out, was even when they found out, was going and even after going on. and even after the show, does seem show, trials so it does seem that there's a bit of moral dimension here, it's dimension ism here, that it's fine, hypocrite if fine, you're a hypocrite if you're the left, but by no you're on the left, but by no means you be on and on the means could you be on and on the right. and let's make it clear, gladstone was the liberal prime minister. a high minister. he began as a high tory, by the he was in his tory, but by the he was in his thirties, was moving towards thirties, he was moving towards the liberal position only the liberal position and only ever governed minister ever governed as prime minister , liberal. so then why is

, as a liberal. so then why is there this historical illiteracy going they've even going on? i mean, they've even even a bust of even had if there was a bust of thomas henry huxley, an abolitionist and they were saying this, get saying we should get this, get rid of this, because of something, he said fact that something, he said the fact that he the he campaigned for the eradication slavery. doesn't eradication slavery. it doesn't seem that seem to matter. thought that would some sort of would buy them some sort of kudos i one of the kudos. well, i think one of the problems back to the problems it back to what the historian ajp taylor, the mid—century historian, said, the past happened. history mid—century historian, said, the péwhat happened. history mid—century historian, said, the péwhat we happened. history mid—century historian, said, the péwhat we ourselvesed. history mid—century historian, said, the péwhat we ourselves and istory mid—century historian, said, the péwhat we ourselves and what's is what we ourselves and what's happened the past half happened over the past half century there century is that there has a revision of what we used to tell ourselves about the role of empire and of our in not forgetting empire is forgetting the empire is something or empires have existed . the whole of human existed. the whole of human existence . they are a natural existence. they are a natural part , it seems, of the growth part, it seems, of the growth and evolution of societies not explicitly british, exclusively. british? well, no every great society in the history of humankind has evolved a thing called empire. there is a there is, it seems, deep in our psyche, an activist and part of our psyche is the need to dominate others and to take wealth and to take land , to take

wealth and to take land, to take goods. and this is not something that we solely as brits were responsible . it happened long responsible. it happened long before us. the roman empire, for instance, and it will long after all these people are dead and the petty squabbles over statues have been forgotten. but i think for the time being, it's very important that we don't know what is a very number of people who are listened to disproportionately to either their importance or their knowledge or the verisimilitude of what they say. is it about the way in which people interpret what statues interpret what these statues represent? i mean, i think some activists, they see a statue of cecil and they say is a cecil rhodes and they say is a celebration all worst celebration. all of his worst opinions . celebration. all of his worst opinions. other people see it as a landmark an artefact of history that most have no idea what cecil rhodes stood for . what cecil rhodes stood for. they've they've they've been allowed they've allowed to be allowed themselves to be persuaded an a historic and persuaded by an a historic and often false narrative about. cecil rhodes, was i mean, as cecil rhodes, he was i mean, as a young man, he had some views that we would not now find palatable. and continued to palatable. and he continued to hold of these hold some of these views throughout also throughout life. but he also modified views and

modified some of his views and beliefs. instance, in the beliefs. for instance, in the equality of the races in, africa and in india. he founded the rhodes which rhodes scholarship, by which people of all colours, of all creeds of races, of all creeds, of all races, of all nationalities have benefited ever he died. the idea ever since he died. the idea that just because someone once a rather unpopular opinion should not display them from being regarded well in other areas. and i think this is one of the legacies of colonialism with which we have to deal. the nigerian writer achebe said the point about and our legacy with is that its complexity with contradictions is there is both good and bad . and the professor good and bad. and the professor or former professor, moral and pastoral theology oxford nigel biggar. his book colonialism , is biggar. his book colonialism, is published this week has had this problem that his book would not be published. he's original publisher, that is to say, would not publish it. he had to go elsewhere because people are so worried about anything is worried about anything that is seen apology. you seen as an apology. you colonialism. it's not colonialism. well, it's not about apology. about giving about apology. it's about giving straight forward factual information about those bits

that will good, for instance i think that one of the great legacies of the british empire was in india. we banned the practise of burning widows on their husband's funeral pyres and in africa we tried to get rid female genital mutilation long before anybody in the rest of the west was singing about this . of the west was singing about this. equally, of the west was singing about this . equally, there are of the west was singing about this. equally, there are parts of it which we apologise and of it for which we apologise and i think have apologised for a very long time. and it's interesting you mention nigel baker's know there is a baker's book. i know there is a dispute what dispute in terms of what happened with publisher happened with the publisher which was bloomsbury and yes bloomsbury have a bloomsbury deny or have a different of events. recollections i suppose recollections may vary i suppose would you use would be the phrase that you use youn would be the phrase that you use your. says that is your. baker says that is absolutely the case, that absolutely not the case, that there backlash to there was kind of backlash to there was kind of backlash to the of this book. the publication of this book. but it quite important but isn't it quite an important corrective? whether you corrective? i mean, whether you take what he's take issue with what he's written actually to written or not, but actually to have book that talks about some of positive of empire of the more positive of empire at that's quite at the moment, that's quite a bold thing to do isn't. well i think just to have a book that isn't condemnatory and against the review in the trevor phillips review in today's i think is on this today's times i think is on this because it does discuss is where

the shows empire to have the book shows empire to have been a force for evil and where it was a force for good and biggers tried to bring this ethical debate about mpofu quite some time ago. indeed, his 2017 programme, ethics and empire was condemned in a letter to the times by academics before. it even got off the ground. the reason that was a programme at oxford university. it was just an that we should think about this should try think this and we should try think about the round rather about it in the round rather than condemning automatically or indeed praising it automatically. because that's not debate happens. not the way that debate happens. you sit and you don't just sit down and decide for next 50 decide that for the next 50 years is a good thing. and years this is a good thing. and this bad thing and you can this is a bad thing and you can have no discussion it. that's the intolerant close the most intolerant close minded, frankly, sort minded, idiotic, frankly, sort of any question of approach to any question of history. suppose the history. but suppose that the approach that the activist take is emotive in terms the is so emotive in terms of the language they choose, the imagery opt that we imagery they they opt that we talk how churchill talk about how winston churchill was to or an equivalent to hitler of his what they hitler because of his what they say responsibility for say is his responsibility for the for i mean, the bengal famine for i mean, but is a historical but this is not a historical nuanced assessment that's just historically wrong. but this comes to a point i've been

comes down to a point i've been trying across people for trying to get across people for a activists, a while when activists, particularly activist, particularly online activist, start a discussion , start an start a discussion, start an argument in such bad faith , when argument in such bad faith, when they are coming from a position of straightforward untruth, stop them airtime, ignore them. they're like toddlers who are running around screaming for more smarties, just no, sorry. no, we're not that if someone comes forward and says , you know comes forward and says, you know what, there were parts of the british empire were previously considered think considered good, that think because y new because of x, y and z, new pieces, information ought to pieces, information we ought to reconsider let's reconsider a fine. let's reconsider a fine. let's reconsider them. let's have an honest, good faith discussion. but to be to allow the but just to be to allow the agenda to be driven by people who only want to condemn the past only want to say we past who only want to say we were dreadful people and our forebears were dreadful people forebears were dreadful people for taking any part in this whatsoever. neither enlightened humanity nor does it lead to more open minded debate, and nor doesit more open minded debate, and nor does it lead better does it lead to better literature. all it does is lead to disliking our forebears . who to disliking our forebears. who did? i think for the most go about their lives, thinking that

they were doing the very best they were doing the very best they could? i mean, is it the that activists just like to select they sort of egregious moments things the armour moments things like the armour at some massacre but of course that my time. that was condemned at my time. at yes. by the at the time. yes. by the government, by most people in charge. and we saw massacre charge. and then we saw massacre was appalling was just it was an appalling event. you when you event. and when you when you mention bengal famine , we mention the bengal famine, we were the middle of the second were in the middle of the second world 1943. church il world wars in 1943. church il did looked at the papers did having looked at the papers and book on churchill and andrew book on churchill makes churchill makes this very clear churchill did was absolutely at did as much as was absolutely at the to make sure that these the time to make sure that these dreadful events were mitigated we sent grain tubing to india to try to do what could we couldn't send as much as we would have donein send as much as we would have done in times of peace because we fighting the, because we we were fighting the, because we were fighting the japanese empire at this time as well. we didn't the resources churchill beanng didn't the resources churchill bearing , the responsibility for bearing, the responsibility for the bengal famine is one of the great historical lies . the great historical lies. the weather to blame, not weather is to blame, not churchill, not roosevelt , not churchill, not roosevelt, not stalin. as much as we might like to blame stalin, rightfully for all he to all the things that he did to encourage famine. was not

encourage famine. this was not one them. david oldroyd, one of them. david oldroyd, both, thank you much for both, thank you very much for joining. thanks a and after the break and free speech nation, i will be meeting the mother who has taken her son's school to court after she claims he was forced. take pride in i take part in pride parade. see you in just a few minutes .

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation . mother izzy montague nation. mother izzy montague taken her son's school to court after claiming they forced her four year old son to take part in an lg, b.t. pride parade she wrote to. he was fined primary school in south norwood, london , back in 2018, asking that her son be excused from attending because it went against the family's beliefs . the school family's beliefs. the school refused and montague launched legal action supported by the christian legal centre against

the school on grounds of direct and indirect discrimination victimisation and breach of statutory duty under . the statutory duty under. the education act 1996 and the human rights act 1998. and izzy montague is here to discuss this . welcome to the show . so a of . welcome to the show. so a of people will be surprised to hear that a four year old would be expected participate in an lgbt pride parade that feels like a sort of adult activity that people to get involved with. what were the circumstances surrounding . so the school surrounding. so the school decided that they wanted to celebrate pride month . it was celebrate pride month. it was june. everyone else was doing it all the other big companies. so school said something that they wanted to do . it was advertised wanted to do. it was advertised , raised to the parents, a blog. but it was about stonewall celebrating the gay iterations and liberations of sexual and they feel like this would be something really good for the school to do when it should . and

school to do when it should. and we've a pride parade . on the we've a pride parade. on the 29th of june. and so you wrote to them and just said, well, you would like son not to participate . so i wasn't aware. participate. so i wasn't aware. i have to admit, i wasn't aware of . a school blog at this stage of. a school blog at this stage . my son was four. i didn't really . this was quite new to really. this was quite new to me. yes you know, i'm used to the old ways of doing things. a newsletter in a bag . yeah. so newsletter in a bag. yeah. so i only became of this when i saw an article . and a parent had an article. and a parent had complained about the things that had going on that month with what they thought had been doing in the classroom. so i see this article i'm quite shocked and amazed. and then that's when got in contact with the school and did they say to you? they just said, but i said , you know, you said, but i said, you know, you can't do a pride parade the end of the month. you know, we're christian and he will not be able to celebrate this. and i was told that is an assembly.

children have to participate and no children should be excused from any school assembly on whatever grounds. that's because even the organisers of pride would admit that it is a essentially politics event . and essentially politics event. and so to try and get a four year old involved with politics is as though they've even had a chance to really think about these issues. that seems a bit strange. it was very strange. we were knocked back a lot of i basically it's mandatory these lessons is about celebration of diversity so a way to kind of get away from the fact that it was lgb the celebrations it it was lgb the celebrations it it was more to do with the fact that you know children are just proud they renamed so it was to do with a pride parade . but then do with a pride parade. but then they later renamed it to be proud to be me . that was just proud to be me. that was just another thought , too. to another thought, too. to basically force children to do this . it does basically force children to do this. it does feel like a lot of schools sort of race obsessed at the moment . the notion of the moment. the notion of diversity. black history . gay

diversity. black history. gay history. lgbt history month , history. lgbt history month, this kind of thing would . would this kind of thing would. would you be happy with having discussions about these ideas in school long they the school so long as they the children weren't expected to participate in a celebratory way? you know, not have a choice, correct? i mean, i think any type of social or social ideologies should definitely be discussed first with the parents. i have no problem with any parent wanting to celebrate something, but quite close to our hearts . so if you're taught, our hearts. so if you're taught, you don't want march in an easter parade . if a child when easter parade. if a child when it's a parent decided well i don't want my child to do that nothing to do with us will still participate . but i think it's participate. but i think it's important. but children should be allowed to have an education first. let's make that the most important thing . all these other important thing. all these other social things should be choices and it doesn't really need to take place . is your concern just take place. is your concern just what's going on at this particular school or is it a broader problem with the schooling system generally?

exactly so i think what's what really made me stand out for this was because there wasn't any way to turn to it was quite clear , quite obvious that clear, quite obvious that schools couldn't just act as authoritarian as they and force vehicles onto without any question. when you decide i was shocked because i was like , is shocked because i was like, is not right, you know, it's somebody needs to stop this. i was calling everybody and it's quite that schools are just allowed to run raids based the families and this is the extent that you have to go you have to go to court to stop schools from just doing as they please. do you think that a lot of parents are too nervous to say anything about this? correct do think that a of parents were that a lot of parents were scared the backlash ? this is scared of the backlash? this is quite big thing. mean , as quite a big thing. i mean, as soon as we said we didn't want our child to do it, it just was, you know , bigoted, homophobic you know, bigoted, homophobic but all of these things were just, you know, feel your and

believe the next minute . believe the next minute. something that has never, you know, made that you've been homophobic before and no other area. this is the you know, that you're a homophobic just because you're a homophobic just because you're twisted. but in this particular situation in the schools . yeah. and those schools. yeah. and those accusations come your way. have they definitely ? definitely. you they definitely? definitely. you know, the bigoted and this about me wanting anyone else follow my beliefs, which is about son going to school, getting education and just being able to have his own beliefs. and before finish, i just want to ask you, it's about other parents. have you had much support from other people? do you get the sense that there other parents that there are other parents within school who your within the school who share your concerns but maybe haven't spoken definitely. at spoken out? oh, definitely. at the beginning this, the beginning of this, i definitely there was definitely alone. there was other who were as much for fight about this. but it's the backlash is it's really serious and i do it for the other parents i understand that you know if you're sending your to a school that has such strong views how will they treat your

children. my child was you know i was detained and after this whole thing when complained. so there's no doubt that people do feel that they will be know victimised and also. so yeah you know very interesting what is the magic. thank you so much for joining us today. there is a high degree he was found trying school did to kindly send us a statement which read in part as a school we have a duty stated by the department for education and by the early years foundation stage framework to promote fundamental values. the teaching covered a range of curriculum compliant topics , curriculum compliant topics, including celebrating diversity , challenging stereotypes, black history women's history, lgbt communities , the environment, communities, the environment, mental health and disability awareness, among other things . awareness, among other things. after the break, i'm free speech. richard madeley uses the wrong pronoun. matt hancock makes an entrance and a pet bird sings the addams family theme tune. sings the addams family theme tune . it's almost time for

tune. it's almost time for social sensation . see you in social sensation. see you in just a few minutes .

i welcome back to the final of free speech nation with me andrew doyle and before moving on i regret to inform our viewers that lewis schafer was right about something . a google right about something. a google search has revealed that biting your nails can help people with allergies. i'd like to apologise sincerely to lewis for doubting him . it is time for social. this him. it is time for social. this is the part of the show we dedicated to the weird and wonderful world social media. so first up, we've got this. this is from tv presenter, richard madeley. the madeley. he's been in the spotlight using pronoun spotlight for using pronoun incorrect pronouns when talking about smith following a shot about sam smith following a shot of him sam spanking and simulating a very specific act with a scantily clad drag queen. remember sam smith uses the

pronouns they they. yes, sorry . pronouns they they. yes, sorry. i don't know what he's apologising . sam smith is a apologising. sam smith is a bloke . yeah, yeah . i mean, bloke. yeah, yeah. i mean, basically, you know what i'm? just so the non—binary thing is, i just can't get on board with it, that's all. and i would just out politeness and in the days of be kind and all this stuff, but it's gone. so far now. and also the fact sam smith specifically is the reason why the brits went into this sort of non—gender thing. now women are losing out on their representation. like i think i'm a liberal. i think anyone should be able to call themselves whatever want. if he wants whatever they want. if he wants to call himself a plural if he wants to say i'm in, if he wants to say i'm in, like if he wants to say i'm in, like if he wants to say that i'm not male, he can do that. and i have no objection to so but i'm objection to that. so but i'm not to play with it. not going to play along with it. well it says opposing it. well it, it says opposing it. and so think that whole and so now i think that whole identity is it's if identity is just it's not if won't like you say live and let live. i mean, lewis identifies as schaefer plus so you as lewis schaefer plus so you are but not going along

are also but i'm not going along with lewis. well, you with either lewis. well, you know what? you should go along with more when know what? you should go along with go more when know what? you should go along withgo along more when know what? you should go along with go along with more when know what? you should go along with go along with it.yre when know what? you should go along with go along with it. if when know what? you should go along withgo along with it. if sam nhen you go along with it. if sam wants to be, they whatever he want, whenever she wants to be, they what she's it's they think what she's got. it's is difficult, doesn't is difficult, isn't it? doesn't come the come naturally. this the problem. he wants to be problem. so if he wants to be a he may if she wants to if she wants to a he. yes if he wants to be a it is if it's not going to be a it is if it's not going to work. so let's just not do it anyway. we're to move on to this one. this is matt hancock. he was a regular in this in his they segment in his i'm a celebrity days and he is back for more so his bizarre pre—show entrance on good morning britain reminded social media of a certain movie . hey you're certain sci fi movie. hey you're not supposed to .

be people are mocking matt hancock quite life feel a bit sorry for him actually i don't feel sorry for myself. no, because you know what this that interview, he really got and feel like really got it. and i feel like he like there's the whole he was like there's the whole thing him in the jungle thing of him being in the jungle was hancock watching was like hancock watching yeah. and now it's like he's actually been held to account by people who of being with who know all then of being with a bunch celebrities don't a bunch of celebrities who don't know anything. and i'm not including as not including myself as i'm not celebrity, know celebrity, but i don't know anything the fact is anything either. but the fact is now that she up to now someone that she stood up to and no, wait a minute, this was wrong. and he was wanting any final so we've to go final thoughts. so we've to go final thoughts. so we've to go final i think we've final thoughts is i think we've learned we're allowed learned that we're not allowed to him a murderer. who to call him a murderer. who hancock no, i never did . lewis hancock no, i never did. lewis yeah, well, i'm not going to ehhen yeah, well, i'm not going to either. well good . thank you. either. well good. thank you. thank you for complying . right. thank you for complying. right. well, thanks a lot forjoining well, thanks a lot for joining us for free speech nation this was the week when tom jones was scorned by rugby world nicholas sturgeon realise there are consequences to denying reality

. panel as well . thanks to my panel as well and do next week at the same do join us next week at the same time. you then . hello. very time. see you then. hello. very good evening to you have something of a north split three tonight with some cloud and some rain across northern parts. clearer skies further south, but that brings the of some that brings the risk of some frost some fog at the frost and some fog at the moment. we have high pressure across the uk hence why it's so settled, particularly for southern notice there southern parts. but notice there is waiting out in the is a weather waiting out in the atlantic this going to atlantic and this is going to push towards the uk as push its way towards the uk as we go through monday of the here and though across sunday and now though and across sunday night going see clear night we are going to see clear skies moving of england skies moving parts of england and thicker cloud for and wales thicker cloud for scotland and northern here. a few spots drizzly rain and few spots of drizzly rain and some blustery winds around . the some blustery winds around. the northwest coasts because of the clear across and clear skies across england and wales, that's where temperatures are going be lowest. a fairly are going to be lowest. a fairly widespread could be low as widespread frost could be low as minus minus celsius minus four minus five celsius tonight. could be quite tonight. so it could be quite harsh also mist and harsh. and also some mist and fog to watch out for freezing across parts of east anglia and into as we go through monday morning . that should largely morning. that should largely clear we will have

clear then and so we will have bright skies for a time but it will turn gradually. cloudy england, as go through england, wales as we go through the afternoon, thick of cloud winds parts scotland winds across parts of scotland and northern ireland. but because of southerly flow because of the southerly flow that we have, i'm expecting some brighter across the far brighter spells across the far north scotland here's north of scotland and here's where are where the temperatures are likely be possibly likely to be highs possibly getting double figures getting into double figures through of the day on through the end of the day on monday. see that monday. we're going to see that front mentioned earlier front i mentioned earlier pushing the far northwest. pushing it to the far northwest. so bringing of rain to so bringing a spell of rain to the far north—west of scotland and northern ireland as we go through night. skies, through the night. clear skies, though, much though, again across much of england more we're england and wales. so more we're likely see a fairly likely to see a fairly widespread frost widespread and harsh frost and again the of some fog and again the risk of some fog and freezing patches go freezing patches as we go through into tuesday , through through into tuesday, through tuesday then front is tuesday itself, then front is gradually going to push its way , pushing into parts of southern scotland, england as we scotland, northern england as we head into the afternoon, staying dry towards the dry or brighter towards the south also some sunshine south and also some sunshine developing across northern as we go into the afternoon as just a few showers for the northwest some further changeable weather . this week . the north through this week winds dry towards south

winds dry and towards the south but chilly . some further but also chilly. some further frost night night frost and fog by night night

unmarked ireland tonight, in my big opinion, britain needs to end a culture of tax spend. the country needs dose of tough economic love. and if you don't like it, tough luck. my mar meets guest former justice secretary robert buckland. he's live in the studio after ten. in the big question should sunak bnng the big question should sunak bring back liz truss and in the news agenda with my panel should labour go anti—woke to win the next election? how soon should new mothers go back to work and is asking for a donkey bag at a restaurant? unsophisticated we do it all the time and let me tell you the dog doesn't get the food. get the food lost.