the clock michelle dewberry. and this is dewbs & c0, the show this is dewbs& c0, the show where this is dewbs& co, the show where we'll get into some of the things that have got you talking now. man's best friend, of course, the four legged variety . get this, the dog attacked are on the rise. you'll remember the awful story of the little four year old last week killed in a back garden . is the law back garden. is the law toothless when it comes to dog attacks? do we need to do more? for example , should we for example, should we reintroduce dog licence ? did reintroduce dog licence? did they make a blind bit of difference the last time we had them? and liz truss, she has been to told both finish the calls she had the audacity, some

saying to write aa4 thousand word essay at the weekend explaining half perspective on what went wrong showed former prime minister and both out. or is they all in sight that we so desperately need ? and mega mega desperately need? and mega mega . where do you stand on them? i frankly say that we should have more of them. do you agree ? and more of them. do you agree? and you know, the world has gone mad. i say this frequently, but now we're being told that every day phrases is an owl to violence . you was in the work violence. you was in the work place . i mean, give me a break. place. i mean, give me a break. but i'll be telling you some of them. but you have to promise if i say some of them, you don't basically go out and kill someone on the back of it. i think you can be trusted that you will have all of that to come. but first, let's get ourselves up to speed with tonight's headlines. tonight's latest headlines. michelle, thank you. good evening to you. and we begin this bulletin with the very sad news that the number of people

killed in the turkey earthquake has now risen to 2200. the 7.8 magnitude quake hit in the early hours of the morning in turkey and syria and was followed by dozens of aftershocks, including one that measured seven and a half. the epicentre was near the border with syria, causing widespread damage to homes and infrastructure . thousands of infrastructure. thousands of people have been injured in both countries. and here the foreign secretary james cleverly says the uk government is sending help. we should arrive by this evening . so we have deployed evening. so we have deployed a large search and rescue team with state of the art life saving equipment. they will be deploying to turkey very soon. we sadly have already seen many thousands of people die . we do thousands of people die. we do not know the full extent of the injuries or fatalities. and sadly, they are likely to grow over the coming days. at this stage , we are not aware of any

stage, we are not aware of any british fatalities , but of british fatalities, but of course it's too easy. it's far too early for us to say that won't be the case. we up to date on events in turkey throughout the evening here on gb news. now in scotland, a man has been jailed for killing a mother and her young daughter before burying them both under his kitchen floor . andrew innes was kitchen floor. andrew innes was found guilty of murdering 25 year old ben lindbergh and two year old ben lindbergh and two year old ben lindbergh and two year old jessica. the 52 year old was also convicted of sexually abusing the toddler and raping another child at his home in dundee in 2021. he was sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum term to serve of 36 years. the partner of missing woman, nicola bully, says it's now been ten days since nicola went missing and i have two little girls who want their mummy back . earlier a private mummy back. earlier a private underwater rescue search team began helping the police in lancashire. search the river wyre. police believe the 45 year old may have fallen in the river

but her family and friends have questioned that theory, saying there's no evidence to support it . peter fielding, who heads up it. peter fielding, who heads up the specialist diving firm sgi , the specialist diving firm sgi, says they're there to help the police. what we've been tasked by lancashire police, we're working closely with them so we're going to be coming down from the wire and we're going down towards the estuary. there's a fair stretch of river and we'll be looking at the bottom is deep in places , bottom is deep in places, shallow in places. police, i believe , think that she's in the believe, think that she's in the air and obviously that's where the evidence is, as you pointing us at the moment, the police are doing a great job. it's a big task lancashire police to task for lancashire police to do. this is a particularly long stretch river to search and stretch of river to search and we just bring that, that backup resource to work with resource to work closely with them this instant. police them at this instant. and police searching for a missing 11 year old girl in scotland and say they can't rule out foul play. caitlin esten was last seen yesterday afternoon at around a quarter to six in the evening at

the interchange in the town centre in galashiels. police say there has been another sighting 10 minutes later, but there's growing concern now for her welfare . in other news today, welfare. in other news today, tens of thousands of nurses and ambulance staff in england are taking part in the biggest walkout in the history of the nhs. the royal college of nursing is staging two days of strikes in a dispute over pay. ambulance crews and call handlers will return to work tomorrow, but will resume industrial action on friday. the health secretary, steve barclay says a resolution needs to come through the independent pay review body . there's been review body. there's been ongoing pressures on the nhs inflation has been higher since last year's pay review body process than was originally forecast . for example, in the forecast. for example, in the spending review 2021. and that's why we've got the evidence in terms of this april that we're working with the trade union. so that will reflect the inflation reflected those circumstances. but done through

but it should be done through the independent pay review, the process can look both process that can look at both what nhs needs, but also the what the nhs needs, but also the wider needs of the economy and the other pressures that many of your facing . well, your viewers are facing. well, the general secretary of the royal college of nursing, pat cummins , says the government is cummins, says the government is punishing nurses. nurses deserve and need a decent pay rise and that will boost the economy, not damage the economy because nurses spend in their local communities. so every nhs worker, including our nurses, deserve a decent pay rise. and here we are in a situation today where this government has chosen to punish the nurses of england instead of getting around a table and talking to me about pay table and talking to me about pay in the same way as they've donein pay in the same way as they've done in wales and in scotland. a woman has been arrested on suspicion of attempted murder after four people, including three young children, were found seriously injured in huddersfield . police were called huddersfield. police were called to an address in the south of the yorkshire town early this morning after receiving a request for assistance from

paramount at the scene. officers believe serious injuries were caused by a bladed weapon. all four injured people have been taken to hospital for treatment for their injuries. taken to hospital for treatment for their injuries . and the uk's for their injuries. and the uk's shortest serving prime minister has given her first interview since stepping down last year. speaking to spectators tv, liz truss explains the decision to sack her chancellor kwasi kwarteng . it was very difficult. kwarteng. it was very difficult. it was very difficult and a reversing reversed the measures in the mini budget as well that we thought were right was very difficult to do. you didn't disagreed anything that you as far as i can work out now. yet he still had to go . to. far as i can work out now. yet he still had to go . to . the he still had to go. to. the i can't i can't say it was anything but extremely difficult . but he was in washington at the time . you're up to date on

the time. you're up to date on tv, online and on dab, plus radio with gb news. back now to dewbs& co . dewbs& co. thanks for that, polly. well, i am michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company right through until 7:00 this evening, keeping me company in the studio tonight. i've got lord daniel moylan, the tory peerin lord daniel moylan, the tory peer in the house of lords, and alongside him kevin craig, the former labour councillor on the ceo of communications. good evening, gentlemen . good evening, gentlemen. good evening. nice to have you back . evening. nice to have you back. you know the drill as well, don't you, about tubes and how it's about wall three, it's not just about wall three, it's not just about wall three, it's very much about you guys at home tonight. what's on your mind? touch the mind? get in touch with me. the usual ways. views is at usual ways. gb views is at gbnews.uk is my email or if twitter is more your thing, you can at gb news. lots of can tweet me at gb news. lots of you getting in contact already . you getting in contact already. a quick reminder i want to talk to you about liz truss. mega

prisons. do you think we need more of them? i definitely do , more of them? i definitely do, oliver. oh, you're in hole. actually olly good man. you've asked a question that i think is quite a good one. you say, never mind prisons. michelle, why don't we reintroduce the death penalty? well that to penalty? well i'll put that to my panel a bit later on in the programme somebody who was programme. somebody who was asked to be kept anonymous says , i am a prison officer and the new mega prisons would be impossible manage. their impossible to manage. their short prisons currently. short staffed prisons currently. and the ones we already have a room by the prisoners. let me ask you this. i won't use your name. you've asked to be kept anonymous. you saying at the moment mega prisons won't work because staffing well, because staffing issues. well, what if we sorted out the what about if we sorted out the staffing, the would be in staffing, the would you be in favour them then and a little favour of them then and a little quick not to add what i would call one of my most dedicated views tonight , richard, because views tonight, richard, because he i am watching tonight he says, i am watching tonight from the bedside in singapore . from the bedside in singapore. you say you won't miss troops co wherever you go, richard , you

wherever you go, richard, you are a man of style . and i like are a man of style. and i like it. i like your style. i might make a note of you. you might get an award towards the end of the year for being one of my most dedicated viewers. where else watching it? from else are you watching it? from singapore. to say it will singapore. i have to say it will take some beating. right. let's talk dangerous dogs , shall we? talk dangerous dogs, shall we? lots european about lots of european and such about this one already. some of you saying there's no such as saying there's no such thing as a dangerous dog . is just a dangerous dog. there is just such dangerous , such thing as a dangerous, incompetent owner. do you agree with that sentiment ? the reason with that sentiment? the reason i pick this one tonight is because, let's face it, because, i mean, let's face it, we to be hearing so much we seem to be hearing so much more dog attacks , more now about dog attacks, people being killed by dogs. you will have known, for example , a will have known, for example, a little four year old very recently in her own back garden. you are the lady that was walking, i think it was eight dogs all the bites to dogs that had all the bites to her neck. she sadly died her neck. she very sadly died last year , to be was the last year, to be clear, was the deadliest on record for dog attacks. ten of them were recorded . thousands upon recorded. thousands upon thousands that nine thousands of people and up in hospital

because of dog attacks as well year a quick quiz view if you're watching at home on google the answer because in a minute i'm going to ask my panel live. it's time to bring back dog licences but before i do a question for you guys at home, do you know how much the dog licence previously cost to go collect just off the top of your head? if you know the answer to that? if you know the answer to that? i was astonished when i found out anyway. kevin craig dangerous dogs. what do we do about them? all dogs generally, actually. should a actually. should we have a licence for all dogs in this country? i'm going to omit country? well i'm going to omit something embarrassing. michelle. we. we had a dog michelle. oh we. we had a dog until i was 16. i'm 51 now. and when i found out recently that you didn't need a licence to have a dog, i was shocked. right. it was. i was completely unaware . do i think that licence unaware. do i think that licence is the specific issue here and he's terrible attacks. none of the dogs were banned breeds and it's unknown why they turned on the walker so i'm not sure that licencing would solve the problem. but do i think that we

should licence dog ownership? yes, i do. i think it's a really big responsible party. i think it would be better for the country. it would encourage people to be response civil. and i'm not suggesting we go as far as the netherlands, because how much in the much for one dog in the netherlands? well i know the answer that are if i do, answer to that are if i do, it'll spoil . well, the question it'll spoil. well, the question there. well, i didn't realise ,128 for one dog, there. well, i didn't realise ,128 for one dog, ,330 for two or ,586 right. or ,586 for three dogs. right. so done differently so it's done differently elsewhere now and they do a yearly tax by the way, as well. and on top of that, yes. right. so countries , you know, so in other countries, you know, it's done differently . i don't it's done differently. i don't think licencing itself will stop the terrible attacks that have happened recently. but do i think we should have licences for dog ownership? i think it would be a very good consideration. do you agree more than i've always in the last 30 years kept out of arguments and debates about dogs because i

found in local governments, well, those days where they are about to change. but i found that there are two types people are interested in debates about dogs. people who absolutely hate dogs. people who absolutely hate dogs and dog poo, and people who are completely bonkers in favour of dogs . not necessarily dog of dogs. not necessarily dog poo, but in favour of dogs. and there's nobody in the middle. and whatever you say, you're going to be locked out. kevin you are going to be monstered on twitter tonight . most people twitter tonight. most people have have to say, have heard what you have to say, but think that the old dog but i do think that the old dog attack a is the old dog attack is a is the old dog licence, which when i was young, cost i think two shillings and sixpence or something like that. michelle if that's michelle i don't know if that's the right answer you've got. i want we've moved want to in penance we've moved on shillings. dog on from shillings. oh dog licence did no good whatsoever and people 40% apparently of people only 40% of people who should have had a dog licence actually had one. most people were like kevin criminals who weren't operators didn't have a dog licence when he was a youth. he's just admitted it on

television. and i hope that like rishi, the fine arrives very shortly. just admitting that. but mind . the point is but never mind. the point is that that system did no good. what? kevin is suggesting indicate in the dutch system would have to be coupled with some sort of training, some sort of for the owners. yeah and i can see the argument for that, but i actually deliver bring it against the backlash that kevin is now going to see evidence of on his twitter feed tonight. and you might it's going to be almost impossible because people will feel that they are responsible dog owners without the need for having to go on a government course . i personally government course. i personally lost my personal views. i think that in cities at least, it is often quite cruel and i don't understand why it is that people have dogs as pets. wow. and i. i really wonder whether we're going to get months. yeah, i will get. i will get back my friends. i will get monsters as

well now. but i mean, a budgerigars i can about see goldfish. yes but really, you know, do you need in the city you're living in a flat. do you really need a dog? is it good for the dog? is it good for you? well, i can i can add a few as i erm the shouting at you. how can i say one thing michelle daniels. i think daniels the one i like dogs for the record. i know. but what i was really fascinated about was that without a licencing system, there's insurance in place . there's no insurance in place. so terms of some of the so in terms of some of the consequences is consequences of attacks, what is interesting is recently some of the attacks , when the owners the attacks, when the owners have been prosecuted, they've got up to the got no means to make up to the victim's. a licencing scheme responsibly done sensitively done, would offer more redress to people who were the victims of attack. well it's either licence gun insurance but yeah it's highlighting to this microchip thing that all the dogs have got life. couldn't you form of insurance monetary insurance what not you just thought if you if it was possible it would have been done by now. and yet we don't know

how many there are in the how many dogs there are in the country. the country. despite the microchipping requirement. as i understand knows how understand it, nobody knows how many there a central many dogs there is not a central database, just seems surprising, i think. but know would i think. but you know what would happen had to have happen if you had to have compulsory dogs? compulsory insurance of dogs? i'm bad idea, i'm not saying it's a bad idea, but know what would happen but you know what would happen the rang to the breeds would get rang to court the insurer according court by the insurer according to they were, and the to how risky they were, and the premium for a now i don't premium for a now say i don't know now sation or whatever would be off the scale so everybody would end up with fit susan poodles and that's all you get a monoculture of dog ownership i mean it's that you don't you want to dissuade people from having the more dangerous types dogs. well dangerous types of dogs. well that may be what you want to do, but what is the point of having a country which is just a country of two earners? you know , country of two earners? you know i , country of two earners? you know , i just think he wants to say that as many times. yeah, you can't. yeah, quite, quite enjoying saying that . yeah. i enjoying saying that. yeah. i think the enjoyable topic i wouldn't dissent. do you have a dog. what do you think to what daniel. just said? daniel's basically saying it's a little bit if you live in a city

bit cruel if you live in a city to have a dog. i'm not putting words your mouth am words into your mouth there, am i? unfairly, no. you i? not? not unfairly, no. you know do you think to know what? what do you think to that? i don't have a dog. i must confess, i'm a little bit frightened dogs. i was frightened of dogs. i was brought by dad to be wary brought up by my dad to be wary of to cross the road if we of dogs to cross the road if we ever a dog, we would be made ever saw a dog, we would be made to cross the and i've had to cross the road. and i've had to cross the road. and i've had to a lot of work on myself to to do a lot of work on myself to even be around they used even be around dogs. they used to. i mean, now i can be around a dog, but if a dog started to bark, i would be very, very, very frightened indeed. which is not great, but. well it's understandable given your experiences as a child. but i mean, i think this debate has to also hear that millions of people are made incredibly happy py hap . [y |b de incred a m are le op pe by people are made incredibly happy by their dogs. mental health in a big cities up and down this far, nation. daniel, i think you're going to find a lot of people who say we've got parks we clean up after our dogs. we're response sensible and i think they would and you'd put them a training course them on a training course wouldn't that's what you'd wouldn't you. that's what you'd

say. i just said you'd be on a training. well, i think there's space for discussion about insurance. well, i think this is the space for discussion about licencing which licencing dog ownership, which is thing . is a really responsible thing. but i'm definitely not saying , but i'm definitely not saying, you know, casting aspersions on dog owners generally because many are really responsible how i try, many are really responsible how | try, | many are really responsible how i try, i think you should if you buy a dog, you should have to sign something or whatever to say that you've been on mandatory dog training because the problem is and it's coming through thick and fast on my inbox, a lot of you are saying this. let just cut to some of this. let me just cut to some of you guys. graham, if i can get you guys. graham, if i can get you up on screen, i do like to give you your moments of glory. make happen . yes, i go. make that happen. yes, i go. your moment fame , graham your moment of fame, graham says. thing is, with dogs , says. the thing is, with dogs, they become fashion accessory they become a fashion accessory and nuisance to the and a complete nuisance to the peace quiet common law. peace and quiet common law. goodness me. that's a bit harsh, graham. my view is my fellow viewers. well, agree with that. david says it's nothing to do with licences or government intervention training and not

treating dogs like children and humans is the answer. jim i'm not generally a fan of dogs , so not generally a fan of dogs, so yes, i think there should be licence more strictly with an annual requirement of a vet check like an empty on a car. goodness may people that have got pets will say about the vet bills . david says prospective bills. david says prospective owners should be vetted as to the dog's well—being and all dogs should be licenced and annual dog licence fee dependent on breed . gloria says definitely on breed. gloria says definitely bnng on breed. gloria says definitely bring back dog licences and introduce it with a tack to be worn on that collar. well, i'd yeah, i. yeah they go the suggestion is the owner because ihave suggestion is the owner because i have to say many of you are saying that it's that it's the owners . bernard, let me get owners. bernard, let me get yours at bernard if i can. bernard says, i agree with the lord. people get dogs today and leave them old alone. when that owner is out at work. and peter , you say that all dogs should be kept on the lead when they are out . say, i have to say, i

are out. say, i have to say, i do think you should be on a lead . certainly when you're kind of in close proximity . but . certainly when you're kind of in close proximity. but i would be comfortable if there was big spaces that were fenced off, perhaps have free perhaps for dogs to have free run around . i get a little bit run around. i get a little bit uncomfortable when i see dogs charging all over the place . charging all over the place. when you've got little kids that are around. anyway, keep your thoughts coming in. that has got lots of you guys talking. are you someone that has a dog who lives a city? are you cruel? lives in a city? are you cruel? you tell me. i couldn't take a quick break. when we come back, i'll have some more of your thoughts. but want you to thoughts. but also i want you to ponden by thoughts. but also i want you to ponder. by the way, i forgot ponder. oh, by the way, i forgot to you the answer the to give you the answer on the dog licence, so i'll give you that when you come as well. that when you come back as well. but to talk about liz but i want to talk about liz truss. she's written an essay over obviously over the weekend, obviously got a time around. should a bit of time on around. should she put out of everything she just put out of everything and stop interfering or not? give me your thoughts. i'll see you into .

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry, keeping you company right through until 7:00 tonight alongside me lord daniel moylan, the tory mp in the house of lords, and kevin craig, the former labour councillor and the ceo of palma commune vacations . ceo of palma commune vacations. daniel is old af and he's letting on michelle because a dog licence was seven and six, says john in real money by the way, a dog licence. i asked you how much do you think they used to cost? $0.37. some people are saying that 76.5 pence, they go probably a lot of money in some of those olden days. i suspect many. i mean, the sentiment coming from so many of you is that it's not the dogs that are at fault. it is very much the owners is i've never had so much rubbish in all my life, says

mick. i've got four dogs, two from a rescue centre, two small to medium and one a lot of pit bull mix. i would never licence them all paying showmance. you sound like the socialist party wanting to ruin everyone's life . shut up. say is mick flaw in the plan that mick if i did shut up it be quite a boring hour because we'd just be sitting in silence one way for the next half an hour. what would we do then?i half an hour. what would we do then? i was asking, where are you from, by the way? and i had a great message from i'm just scrolling through from nicola. i'm sure it was nicola, i'm to say have so many say to find i have so many emails coming said that emails coming in. you said that you're us in canada. you're watching us in canada. i love it. how far away are you guys, nicola, to say that she's from harrogate originally very posh indeed, but where are you watching listening watching or listening tonight? get touch . let know your get in touch. let me know your thoughts . phil says michelle, thoughts. phil says michelle, i'm going to be singing tonight. you and your panel. no one else. i don't think you'd be up for a sing along, would you to go frog in my throat? we were singing

delilah on friday because there was for it to banned in was plans for it to be banned in some the work we stayed in. some of the work we stayed in. so we decided we're not having any that. so i whipped up the any of that. so i whipped up the panel to do a sing along with them, but i'm all for it. tonight is friday activities only. let's talk, shall we? instead my let's instead of my singing, let's focus trust she she's focus on. let's trust she she's getting a bit of a backlog bit of a backlash, i have to say , of a backlash, i have to say, because wrote an essay because she wrote an essay essentially for thousand words. i think it was over the weekend, which is giving things from her perspective. she was saying basically that she was stitched up basically that she was stitched ”p by basically that she was stitched up by a left wing economic establishment's i founding essay . they are quite interesting. yeah. because as well. lord moylan, you voted for liz truss lies on tubes and on dewbs& co and on that. yes. what did you make of what she had to say over the weekend? well, i think it's really interesting. the actually , if you if you if you listen to people, everyone who took comments on it agrees that she was ousted by a left wing

economic establishment. nobody disputes that . some people think disputes that. some people think that was a good thing and some people think he was a bad thing. but everyone agrees that the prime minister of this country and the chancellor were effectively chucked out because the treasury, the bank of england , the useless obe are and england, the useless obe are and people like that all disagreed with and felt cheesed off and cheeked. some of them were angry with them because she cheeked them basically and hadn't spoken to them nicely and said rude things about disabled ageing things about disabled ageing things about disabled ageing things about them and that they got her out. now i think that's the most interesting thing in all of this because whether you think economic were think her economic policies were right wrong, what right or wrong, what constitutional arrangements do we that a prime minister we have that a prime minister can actually be trashed within a few by that bunch of few days by that bunch of unaccountable will people know whether her policies were right or wrong? i think there's a lot to said for low taxes. to be said for low taxes. there's a lot to be said for getting the country moving and for inspiring a vision of

optimism and entrepreneurial ism and that isn't the treasury orthodoxy . the treasury orthodoxy. the treasury orthodoxy. the treasury orthodoxy believes as far as i can tell, the countries in decline. and all we have to do is manage it well. i don't want that treasury. i'd rather get rid of that treasury and have a different one. yeah. agreed. and thatis different one. yeah. agreed. and that is one of the things as well because i read this whole thing i did find very thing and i did find it very interesting. one of the interesting. but one of the things said there is things that she said is there is such gloom attitude such doom and gloom attitude when it comes to the prospects of this country, pessimism and scepticism about growth scepticism about the growth potential the british economy potential of the british economy is suddenly endemic at the treasury is one the things treasury is one of the things that she was saying. what did you all? kevin well, you make to it all? kevin well, i'm michelle, that given i'm hoping, michelle, that given that viewers that one of your viewers listeners tonight has you listeners tonight has called you a socialist that you're a socialist and that you're wearing red that we might agree with i'm about say. okay with what i'm about to say. okay little things have little stranger things have happened. liz truss happened. kevin well, liz truss is wild. okay. she let's remember how we got here. and with due respect to the lovely member of the house of lords on your right over there, it wasn't

a left wing coup that got rid of her. she was fired by her own members of parliament who understood what a disaster she was overseeing for our country and to keep it brief. liz truss decided with quasi to cut taxes for the wealthy in a cost of living crisis, to not talk to which all governments, left and right wing do. to talk to the bank of england and the opr. she sacked the treasury permanent secretary before she had barely a feet in office and she couldn't communicate and act like a prime minister. i mean, liz truss is not a victim here. she wasn't right for the job and there are hundreds of thousands of us still living with the consequences of her thankfully brief reign . you say about the brief reign. you say about the forecasts and stuff, she says. i'm direct, quoting here. it's also worth recalling that no obe our forecast is accompanied many other fiscal announcements , not other fiscal announcements, not least the covid 19 furloughs scheme, which cost 70 billion. well we know it cost that that

number of billions because lizzie the government that she was a key member of in cabinet wasted billions of it. and we're going to see what come out in the public. she's on this game as we go on about why the double standards what she's saying is how come everyone was cool with huge policy announcements such as the 70 billion or whatever it was going to for be the fellow without our forecast, without an obe. our forecast, but hairstyle. well very but not hairstyle. well very specifically announcements about how deal with the pandemic how to deal with the pandemic are same as budgets. in are not the same as budgets. in mini budgets. very, very mini budgets. it was very, very unusual had the past two to try and do an announcement in that way. and i think many people would think, given the reaction afterwards , it saw her unfit to afterwards, it saw her unfit to do the job. and another thing she said, i wasn't aware. apologies for the technical. i wasn't aware of these things called liability driven investments . well, she was she investments. well, she was she was chief secretary at the treasury for years . i mean, come treasury for years. i mean, come on, daniel. you must have some buyer's remorse now. you know, the chief secretary is responsible for public expenditure, not for managing

pension funds, which is what the bank of england does. that's the job of the chief secretaries to manage the public expenditure. i was told i know something about city and financial markets. i was totally taken aback by the elderly scams that the pension funds got up to under the supervision of the useless bank of england, and then to discover the bank of england's own pension fund was up to its is in the same sort of nonsense and i had no idea that that risk actually existed. i wasn't . and actually existed. i wasn't. and i'm not surprised . she didn't i'm not surprised. she didn't know it had been kept very, very quiet. and i think, you know , quiet. and i think, you know, kevin, did, you know pension funds were managing themselves that way? i mean, you may maybe you did, but i think most people had no idea. but with all fairness, i'm not in the cabinet. i know this is true, secretary. that fair enough. that's point. a fellow that's a fair point. as a fellow on on this, what she's on only on this, what she's saying is that neither she nor anyone in the team around her actually seemed any actually seemed to have any understanding situation understanding of the situation about these pension funds or how bad it was potentially going to

be.she bad it was potentially going to be. she what she said is that she's gone off now and looked into it and that she's absolutely shocked by it. she says the total value, the value of the total assets in ldi strategies is equivalent to around the uk's gdp, and around 60% of the uk's gdp, and it's only now , she says, she can it's only now, she says, she can appreciate what a delicate tinderbox we are dealing with in relation to these. and on that 45 ppi, she references that as well. you know, the cut to the additional rate and she says she was basically just returning it to the rate that it was at dunng to the rate that it was at during the 97, 2010 labour government. but she acknowledges that the political stance had shifted and i think that she does really stand by a lot of, if not all of what she says. some people are saying that this is liz truss circling because she wants to be back as a leader, that this is her laying the sums, if you like, to return as prime minister of this country one day. i think all three of us and i do not doubt the listeners and viewers none of us think think that that's

going to happen. you know, do you think that might happen? i think that she is leading the argument and i think she has won the argument on what economic policy should be. i think that you asked me about bias , regret. you asked me about bias, regret. i think, to be frank , there are i think, to be frank, there are an awful lot of conservatives and even conservative mps who, while they'll go along with the current economic policy in the current economic policy in the current chancellor's policy as an act of what they see as necessity, but they do actually believe that the vision described by liz truss economically and fiscally as the one that the conservative party should be adhering to, and even you and must think that you can and must think that whether was some irony whether there was some irony involved in seeing conservative mp get rid of liz truss while demanding that the tax rate be put back at $0.45. i mean, what was going on there? the conservative party appeared at that point seriously to have lost its way, in my view. they started lose. it's what their way when they got rid of boris but you know in the it rolled on

and they ended up in completely the wrong place. i think they will get back to the right place. think are place. i think those are workable policies they are workable policies and they are also be popular also going to be popular policies the policies on policies unlike the policies on tax that i expect to see from the dreary sir keir starmer well , let's put to one side the charismatic keir starmer. you've just referred to the thing i would just say is if we're all honest, imagine down honest, let's imagine with down the tonight , do we honest, let's imagine with down the tonight, do we think the pub tonight, do we think that truss was right for the that liz truss was right for the job of prime minister ? i think job of prime minister? i think what she was is someone that have the core, who knows to be different and to be bold . and i different and to be bold. and i think actually if she was supported better, she could have made radical change in this country that in the medium term would have been perhaps the right thing. that would be my idea that she had actually won the in the conservative the contest in the conservative party, and that must count for something so the idea , something as well. so the idea, the concern from the members, not the mp, understood well it was the members who made the choice and that was what the rules say between the last two

selected by mps . and if the selected by the mps. and if the mps didn't like it and they were determined to have somebody else anyway and they got rid of for that, for that reason that's bad luck she makes a quite an luck too. she makes a quite an interesting bob by the way, in this of because this essay of hers because she talks being caught talks about being caught unawares upcoming unawares at this upcoming leadership contest and having to create a campaign very quickly . create a campaign very quickly. that was obviously a bit of a bubble or at least that took it that way for rishi sunak, which remember very slick campaign remember his very slick campaign video produced video that was produced apparently in a matter of days. he writes mackay's work, though, did it well ? well, we are where did it well? well, we are where we are. he is the prime minister now lost the contest. this is very true, mackay says ex—pm pms are like children. michelle. they should be seen and not had . well i had to work it. the mackay, they're making an absolute fortune by being head aren't they on the speaking circuit? john says i knew the day she pm that she was day she became pm that she was never going to be accepted by the real power brokers who pulled strings fact,

pulled the strings. in fact, she'd out before she even got she'd be out before she even got in. tony says give me liz truss. his policies any time. she was never given a chance to proceed with a high growth, low small state agenda thanks to the establishment and tory mps to against her. gary i've read liz's financial plan. you should read it and tell us what was wrong with that. her only crime was not to take the eton oxbridge crew along with her, simon says. please, can you ask liz to stop embarrassing herself with that childish defence that it wasn't me , it was everyone it wasn't me, it was everyone else. she was a weak candidate that was voted in by party members. you know, so many people, i suspect, will sit there and think, why on earth did we ever get rid of boris johnson ? do you think not? and johnson? do you think not? and when i said quick break, when i come back , look at this. could come back, look at this. could this be the answer to britain's over crowded prisons ? salvador over crowded prisons? salvador has just finished a facility , a has just finished a facility, a prison facility that get this will hold for 80,000 inmates. i

like it . i will hold for 80,000 inmates. i like it. i think we could do one of those here. do you agree? give me your thoughts. i'll see you .

in two. hello there. i'm michelle dewberry and this is dewbs & co, dewberry and this is dewbs& co, the show where we'll get into some of the things that have got you talking and keeping me company in the studio right through till 7:00 tonight is my panel through till 7:00 tonight is my panel. well, moylan, the panel. well, daniel moylan, the tool house of tool repair in the house of lords kevin craig, former lords and kevin craig, a former labour councillor the ceo of labour councillor and the ceo of palomar . lots of palomar communications. lots of you guys getting in touch . i'm you guys getting in touch. i'm trying to hunt for my dedicated viewers that are a far afield, shall we say. we've had canada so now , linda as well, south so far now, linda as well, south africa . she's watching from africa. she's watching from tonight's originally, she says from coventry very good evening to you , avis has been in touch.

to you, avis has been in touch. i mean i have to say this dangerous dog, what really got you guys talking tonight ? sorry, you guys talking tonight? sorry, i fail to see what difference a licence would make to the very rare attacks and ask for you, michel, just because you were conditioned to be afraid of dogs, you just basically don't see very many benefits. see the very many benefits. that's not strictly true. actually, i understand the dogs were in great company for a lot of people. i also understand, however, that many people are frightened of dogs , me included. frightened of dogs, me included. one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. i was in a national in cambodia and i was surrounded by a pack of dogs because i got a little bit off track and ended up at some retreat that they were trying to god some temple and tell you how i made it out of that alive will be beyond and it did indeed be beyond me. and it did indeed leave me frightened anyway leave me very frightened anyway , what does also leave , tell you what does also leave me the amount of me very frightened the amount of people are wandering people that are wandering the streets that shouldn't be, because often there's not enough capacity in prisons . people seem capacity in prisons. people seem to have this mantra about, let's

rehabilitate all these prisoners and be nice and look after them and be nice and look after them and all that. i'm not really a fan much of that. i'm much more fan much of that. i'm much more fan of tough, tough justice. if you like tough prisons and i paid attention than if you like to what was going on in el salvador . the government there salvador. the government there is hard enough and they have just finished building a prison that hold get this 40,000 that can hold get this 40,000 people. i thought it was absolutely fantastic. kevin do you think we need a similar thing here? no. and i was struck , michelle, by the prison officer who wanted to stay anonymous, who got in touch earlier, who said that? i think he also said that he he didn't think large scale prisons like this would be a good idea. i mean, but hang on. he only said because of staffing. so we just tuned in. and you think that he didn't like it is saying they wouldn't work because of staffing the staffing staffing levels the staffing properly would i properly then i would say that i mean i still think that on that scale i'm not sure. i mean, i

think there are two reasons for prison. one is punishment and the other should or should be rehabilitation . and i think the rehabilitation. and i think the most important well, punishment is the most important, but prison that does not seek to i mean, who wants to be in prison? but if you if you were making sensible choices in life, nobody would commit crime. okay, i'll dispute that. in this cost of living crisis, i think there's a lot people are struggling in lot of people are struggling in life, frankly, say life, quite frankly, would say actually months in a actually couple of months in a low prison takes the low category prison takes the stress away me about my stress away from me about my bills, i can go to the bills, my food. i can go to the gym every day. i think a few people wouldn't it was people wouldn't think it was about if you can ask, about choice. if you can ask, have you been in too many prisons? haven't. as prisons? i haven't. as my teenage the teenage years, i had the misfortune being involved in misfortune of being involved in a relationship with a romantic relationship with a man in and out of prison man that in and out of prison more times than a year. as a result, i spent pretty much every of mine waiting every weekend of mine waiting for visit order to go and for a visit in order to go and visit in prison. yes, so visit him in prison. so, yes, so do that time, did you ever do from that time, did you ever get that there were get the sense that there were people who actively took a break from life by doing some time

inside . yeah him probably inside. yeah him probably because his girlfriend did because i was his girlfriend did want to get away from it quite frankly him he loved frankly but yeah him he loved his in that prison his friends was in that prison he to come out mostly he he used to come out mostly he had no problem going back in and that well that that is that was okay. well that that is the point of a good debate because i find that really interesting. my take on it would be having also visited people in prison time is that you prison over time is that you would at all costs not not want to be there . i think i do to be there. i think i do respect what you've just said. you know we have lost over 10,000 prison places since 2010. thatis 10,000 prison places since 2010. that is an answer that has come out in parliament. daniel's old friend and still friend, boris, he made a big pledge, i think we might recall, to build, build, build. i think we might remember this talking about more prison places. it hasn't quite happened . and i think more urgently , we . and i think more urgently, we need to get more prison places, but not on this scale. i fear something of that scale, which is from central america, would

be a disaster to a disaster. he mega prisons. i think it sounds like a great idea. do you think it's a disaster or a good idea? well, you're going to think they're terrible. i leftie on this, michel. i think the trouble is that we don't need more prison places, because what we to consider we actually need is to consider what point is ever, ever, what the point is ever, ever, ever longer sentences. and we've gonein ever longer sentences. and we've gone in this country in my lifetime from somewhere where a sentence of ten or 15 years was a serious sentence for a crime of violence like gbh or whatever, to now where people are getting 29, 20 years, 25 years, 30 years, and there are people demanding it's even more. and if you want to go down the american road halfway through , american road halfway through, if you if you want to get it is true that people are let out after halfway through online since you could get rid of that. but that's just another way of making sentences longer. if you want go down the american route where routinely , far where they routinely, as far as i can tell, out sentences i can tell, hand out sentences of 99 years or 150 years on people which i think is what

they mean by that . you know, if they mean by that. you know, if you want to go down that and have a truly a us justice system with all the, the sheer human madness of the prison system in the united states , then say so. the united states, then say so. but the fact is we have to learn to live with fact that people we release people from prison constant who have committed crimes of violence because they have served their sentence . all have served their sentence. all right. they let out some of that at the halfway point, but we let them out and need to manage them out and we need to manage that risk in the community. and if you the implications of what you're saying is that someone who commits a violent crime, the pubuc who commits a violent crime, the public have to be public will always have to be protected from them forever , protected from them forever, then all up forever , then lock them all up forever, and you'll have to build and then you'll have to build the that. what the prisons like that. but what have achieved? but don't have you achieved? but i don't think needs think everyone needs to be locked up forever. but what i think is there's an awful lot of people that should be locked up in that are not in the first place that are not because things capacity. because of things like capacity. well, we've here well, the story we've got here is about a guy who was violent. i grant you story was. but i grant you the story was. but the imposed by the sentence imposed on him by the sentence imposed on him by the court was 18 weeks. i mean ,

the court was 18 weeks. i mean, it's not like and he'd have been out in nine and now it's true. and then they said, i'm and then they said, but i'm suspending it because there's no room prison. had room in the prison. so he had been jail for nine weeks. been in jail for nine weeks. fine still then be out fine but he'd still then be out on streets . what are you on the streets. what are you protecting yourself from? well, how serious is crime? that how serious is crime? was that 18 weeks? not the most serious sentence going . i want prisons sentence going. i want prisons essentially to be like hell on earth . i want someone to go to earth. i want someone to go to prison and have such an awful time that they would never want re—offend in the first place. let me read you out. this thing, it's had my stomach . so it did. it's had my stomach. so it did. this is from a. i called michael thumb . man, i think that's how thumb. man, i think that's how you say it. and 80 year old man given seven years for sex attacks on a five year old girl . you did hear me right. this attacks on a five year old girl . you did hear me right . this is . you did hear me right. this is an eight year old is given seven years in prison for sex attacks. i repeat, on a five year old girl. listen to what he wrote about his prison. i am grateful to be transferred here. this is

mp five wells in wellingborough. i'm grateful to be transferred here. the cells have ample room but they're slightly lacking in shelf . so at least i'm in a shelf. so at least i'm in a prison where as a form of respect, the guards use our christian names and have told us that as he goes on and says that he wants to thank the governor for the chance to be in conditions far better than my previous which contained previous prison, which contained a number vermin rats, a large number of vermin rats, spiders and silverfish in the cells . i spiders and silverfish in the cells. i have spiders and silverfish in the cells . i have to say, despite cells. i have to say, despite small problems, i'm pay five wells . is a five star wells. is a five star establishment . i have to be establishment. i have to be honest , that sickens me. i do honest, that sickens me. i do not want 80 year old man that has sexual relations with a five year old girl to be celebrating the fact that he is in a five star, establish his words, not mine, where inmates are called residents and have this wonderful set up in order to rehabilitate you. i don't want that. i want it to be really hard , really harsh. and people hard, really harsh. and people will think twice about ever committing crime. yeah, i mean,

that's i can see that's a very upsetting and aggravate thing. email or message to read out . i email or message to read out. i can understand i share your views on that . i go back to that views on that. i go back to that to the bigger point, though, and the sentences have to be appropriate . there are we don't appropriate. there are we don't have enough prison places and also people go to prison for some things. and yet you have this sentencing that daniel just alluded to where someone hit somebody else . you can kill somebody else. you can kill someone with one punch. you know, you need to go to prison for that and you need to be punished. and then you need to be rehabilitated. so there's no rehabilitation seriously attempted in prisons. i think that's a can it. you may think you want to see it, but it doesn't effectively happen. well, it's the intent of the of the prison service, isn't it ? the prison service, isn't it? well, this is a debate that can rumble on and on, not least, by the way, because i didn't even get asking about the get round to asking about the death that one of death penalty. is that one of the solutions to overcapacity

prisons? so guess what i'll say that one for another day . coming that one for another day. coming up after this break, i'll have lots of your responses on that prison one, because that's what you're talking boss, you're to talking your boss, apparently. there's this apparently. now there's this whole list of phrases and words that need to stop using with that we need to stop using with a softer alternatives. a lot of softer alternatives. i mean, come on now. you shouldn't even be able to say deadly line, apparently. really? well, i'm on deadline, so i'll go to a break now and i'll see you in a couple of minutes .

hello there. welcome back to dewbs& co with me, michelle dewberry. i'm keeping you comprehensive 7:00 tonight alongside me, lord daniel moylan, the tory peer in the house of lords, and kevin craig , the former labour councillor and of palomar and the ceo of palomar communications . we were just communications. we were just talking about prison , so i'm talking about prison, so i'm saying that there should be much harder, much harsher than they

currently are. jim i think you, my friend, prove my point. you said i spent five months in winston green in birmingham and if i read in that right, i think you mean the prison . the you mean the prison. the category b prison . you describe category b prison. you describe it as a holiday camp, category b prison. you describe it as a holiday camp , the best it as a holiday camp, the best five months of your life . i five months of your life. i mean, i find that a shame for a few different reasons. but i also think that you make my point, john emails and says, michelle, i'm 81. oh, sorry, john. he was on the squad and no, you're not. john says eight. i shouldn't laugh . i hope you i shouldn't laugh. i hope you don't. not serious, john. but you say i'm 81 and i'm thinking of committing a crime. so i can get free free on suite get free food, free on suite accommodation, free tv no council cycle , logical council tax and cycle, logical support . terry says all support. terry says all prisoners should be made to work picking crops and litter picking if they don't work , then their if they don't work, then their sentences should be extended. i'm quite harsh. let me, terry, because what i would say, you know, they get community service and stuff. i would make everyone have high viz jackets on with

criminal on the back of them and for these kind of reasons it's probably a good i'm not in probably a good idea. i'm not in charge of this country. what can i has been in touch i say and has been in touch saying watching from saying that you're watching from spain motorhome. i like spain in your motorhome. i like i love massage home. you i do love a massage home. you say you watch show every say you watch the show every night a nice glass of night with a nice glass of spanish wine. it. i like spanish wine. i like it. i like your style rights. shall i give your style rights. shall i give you some things that are so controversial that you cannot say ready? now say anymore? are you ready? now you to promise. i've got you have to promise. i've got the list my hand. you have to the list in my hand. you have to promise. if i say these things, you're not going to basically go out and commit crime anything you're not going to basically go outthei commit crime anything you're not going to basically go outthe back mit crime anything you're not going to basically go outthe back oft crime anything you're not going to basically go outthe back of it.'ime anything you're not going to basically go outthe back of it. now, anything you're not going to basically go outthe back of it. now, isanything you're not going to basically go outthe back of it. now, is that ing off the back of it. now, is that a we're going pull the a say? we're going to pull the trigger. pull the trigger trigger. we'll pull the trigger on you've got say we're on this. you've got to say we're going to launch we the going to launch it. we jump the gun. no that more if we start gun. no so that more if we start too soon, i'll bite the bullet. nope. won't any nope. i won't avoid it any longer and that i'll kill two birds with one stone. now it's suggested we say that will feed two with stone instead two birds with one stone instead . did say scone. i did. is . stern did say scone. i did. is that who calls them scones? scone oh yeah. so it's two birds

with one scone anyways . yes. with one scone anyways. yes. kill two birds with one stone. yeah. apparently now it will feed two back to one. i mean hoo . who even takes just off seriously. do you. what. lord moylan. i take it very seriously . actually i not because want . actually i not because i want to it, i'll take very says it to do it, i'll take very says it all this guy's back and a poison. a poison in our current society culture goes society and culture that goes back a mad frenchman. about back to a mad frenchman. about 40 years ago who persuaded everybody that real things didn't exist. the only things that existed were words, and the words had a reality which which you could only understand the reality through the words. the words were important. it's called deacon struck to visit and it spread to all our universities . and these people universities. and these people think that the way to control society is to control the language we speak because the words have a reality, which is more important than the underlying what i regard as the underlying what i regard as the underlying substance and this comes out all the time, constant attempts to control your enemies. what they see is their enemies. what they see is their enemies , which is right enemies, which is right thinking. people like us, you

and me, michel, to control them by forbidding us from using different types of language . different types of language. it's much more serious than just a sort of joke in the office. this is serious stuff indeed, and it does not wash with me. i tell all what. we're changing my word. and kevin, this is not serious stuff . i would contend serious stuff. i would contend this is a of a deluded niche american pr professional, somebody in your industry who's who's really a stain on our industry's reputation. and, you know , makes no sense at all know, makes no sense at all because normal people just won't get it, you know, you just can't speak like this. i'll tell you what, you can't speak, like, much longer because time flies when you are having fun. i can't say deadline because apparently that offends people. but i'll say it. i'm on a deadline, so do need to go. thank you very much, gents, for your company tonight . i want to just bring in some thoughts viewers before thoughts from the viewers before i . verdi says, michel, i leave you. verdi says, michel, when we're talking about

criminals, why don't we have chain gangs filling the filling the pot holes in this country, which is the part that lord moylan well, i think no , i mean, moylan well, i think no, i mean, the great problem is, of course, the great problem is, of course, the moment you put them in the fields, they'll run away. michel and that just puts your staff in costs right up and serious. those don't work all the those chains don't work all the time. all says, time. they're all says, why don't you shove these don't you just shove these people won't don't you just shove these peopiany won't don't you just shove these peopiany ones won't don't you just shove these peopiany ones in won't don't you just shove these peopiany ones in the won't don't you just shove these peopiany ones in the army.1't have any ones in the army. you're probably going to shout. you're probably going to shout. you scream. you probably don't want kind, unruly want these kind, unruly criminals amok the criminals running amok in the army, ? and you mentioned army, do you? and you mentioned deconstructing language. does anyone seen those posh restaurant rooms where they serve like things like deconstructed apple pie charge a fortune for it is basically just part of ingredients on a paid on a plate doesn't work for me lots of you guys getting in touch . of you guys getting in touch. hey, it's good to see you out there . i have a little bit there. i have a little bit common sense because you do seem to agree in the whole to agree with me in the whole when it comes to prisons being places for punishment, toughness that you would never want to

return again. but do hope return to again. but i do hope you return to me again tomorrow. have a good evening and i'll see you at seven tomorrow evening. i'm speaking here with your latest weather update. temperatures are dropping out there across england and wales. a tomorrow morning. a frosty start tomorrow morning. some likely further some fog also likely further north. frost and fog not such a problem because it is going to be cloudy this big area of high pressure has been dominating our weather, but it's just edging away to the east, allowing this weather to come into the weather front to come into the northwest, outbreaks of northwest, bringing outbreaks of rain western isles rain across the western isles through also through this evening and also the picking up here. the breeze picking up here. that's wetter weather will just creep into the mainland of scotland around for scotland by around midnight. for most, it's dry and sunny in the south. skies until the fog south. clear skies until the fog forms thickening up in places right now, temperatures dropping below, freezing down to minus three in towns and cities by morning, as low as minus morning, maybe as low as minus six much milder six in rural spots, much milder further north because of the blanket cloud . a great start blanket of cloud. a great start here. little bit of rain in here. a little bit of rain in the west of scotland, the west of northern ireland with that rain kind of fizzling out

through and actually through the day and actually northwestern turning through the day and actually northvbrighter turning through the day and actually northvbrighter theiing through the day and actually northv brighter the day through the day and actually northvbrighter the day in much brighter through the day in the south. should brighten up the south. it should brighten up once has cleared, it once that fog has cleared, it may take much the morning. may take much of the morning. some particularly in some spots, particularly in somerset, it somerset, wiltshire, but it should then we'll have should clear and then we'll have sunny as temperatures sunny conditions as temperatures in south, seven or eight in the south, seven or eight further north, nine or ten celsius. a touch above celsius. so a touch above average for the time of average here for the time of yean average here for the time of year, probably cloudy end year, but probably a cloudy end to across northwest to the day across northwest england, the odd drizzle england, the odd spot of drizzle , dry again in , but most places dry again in the south. look how quickly the frost comes back through tuesday and into wednesday morning fog again likely to be a hazard for wednesday morning commute . and wednesday morning commute. and then the winds really start to pick up in the north. and another band of rain comes in here. those winds, though, the greatest cause concern. we have a office yellow warning a met office yellow warning in place scotland place for north—west scotland for winds during wednesday for those winds during wednesday afternoon evening. afternoon and into the evening. again elsewhere, most places dry and fine. and once the folks cleared , temperatures up to cleared, temperatures up to seven or eight celsius across the south, the outlook for the rest of this week, not much rain at all across the south. frosty

mornings. yes. buts signs of things turning milder as things slowly turning milder as we head towards the end of the week .

good good evening, rishi. sunak suggests we might even leave the aca jar . it suggests we might even leave the aca jar. it could be in the suggests we might even leave the aca jar . it could be in the next aca jar. it could be in the next manifesto, but the conservative party. but is he actually serious ? liz truss has broken serious? liz truss has broken her silence after a hundred days.is her silence after a hundred days. is a contribution a valuable part of the conservative debate , or is she conservative debate, or is she going to split the party even further? i will explain to you a link, a potentially strong link between the taliban and the traffickers and that should worry all of us. and joining me on talking pints, the voice of dodds 180, russ bray . but before dodds 180, russ bray. but before all of that, let's get the news

with polly