hello there at 6:00 michelle dewberry. this is dewbs& co, the show where we'll get into some of the things that have got you talking. and i'll tell you what's, got a lot of people talking today. lee anderson, latest thoughts. he was saying basically why not bring back the death penalty .7 you know, you death penalty? you know, you don't really have re—offending. do you, if someone's dead. but what do you make to that? should we even have a referendum we even just have a referendum on and have done with it? on it and have done with it? give me your thoughts. and according to labour party, according to the labour party, it take 22 years for women it will take 22 years for women to catch up with men it to catch up with men when it comes to applying for stem subjects . and what's. why should subjects. and what's. why should we care? why is there this fascination that if you got one

man applying to go on to science , technology or whatever course you have to equally have one woman. why is it important? am i missing something? you tell me . missing something? you tell me. and should there be a limit on the amount of children that you can receive child benefits for? i'm not talking about historically . i'm not talking about historically. i'm talking i'm not talking about historically . i'm talking about historically. i'm talking about families going forward to is the cut off? is that harsh offer and zero. i can't help but notice we have been asked to make a lot of changes to our lives, whether it's increased taxes, looking at changing our cars, looking at our heating system, our installation . now, would banners installation. now, would banners they are for the chop in some instances meet. i mean, come on now. is this all getting a little bit much? all these tiny of a bearing impacts , changes on of a bearing impacts, changes on our life when let's face it, china, india, all this polluters. they're not doing anything that they really need to be doing. is it time to say, come on, enough now? we'll get into all of that . but before we

into all of that. but before we do so, let's bring ourselves up to speed with tonight's latest headunes to speed with tonight's latest headlines with a legend. that is polly from middle east . michele, polly from middle east. michele, thank you and good evening to you. our top story on gb news tonight , you. our top story on gb news tonight, more than 19,000 people are now known to have died after monday's earthquakes in southern turkey . in northern syria. turkey. in northern syria. around 70 members of the uk international search and rescue team have joined the effort to try find survivors in the try to find survivors in the rubble. they tweeted to say they'd recently managed to rescue two women aged 60 and 90. hundreds of thousands of people have been left homeless in freezing conditions, with the world health organisation now warning many more could die without shelter. british charities are appealing for funds to help those affected by the disaster, with the government saying it'll match up t 0 £5 million government saying it'll match up to £5 million in public donations . well also breaking donations. well also breaking news within the last hour or so, members of parliament are to get

a 2.9% pay increase. that is from the 1st of april. that's going to bring their overall salary from around going to bring their overall salary from aroun d £84,000 salary from around £84,000 a year to 86. the independent parliamentary standards authority says the pay increase for employees was the same as the average increase in pay for pubuc the average increase in pay for public sector employees. last year. public sector employees. last year . lancashire police say year. lancashire police say their search for the missing mother of two, nicola pulley , mother of two, nicola pulley, has now moved towards the sea . has now moved towards the sea. the force says it's searching further downstream where the river wyre becomes tidal. officers have also had to issue a 48 hour dispersal order for sir michael's on wyre after an abandoned house was reportedly searched by members of the public. trying to solve the case for themselves and then posting footage on social media. the 45 year old was last seen 30 days ago walking her dog . a serving ago walking her dog. a serving metropolitan police officer has been charged with rape. pc jordan, pascale was charged by

essex police in connection with an allegation of non—recent rape. the charge relates to an alleged incident from 2009. he joined the force in 2012. he's since been suspended from duty and will appear in court in march . a formal labour mp has march. a formal labour mp has been jailed for four years after being found guilty of fraud committed while he was in office. jared o'mara has been convicted of six counts of fraud after trying to claim around £52,000 worth of taxpayers money to fund his cocaine habit . the to fund his cocaine habit. the 41 year old, who was an mp between 2017 and 2019, was cleared of two other charges by a jury at leeds crown court. the judge called the crime deliberate and dishonest, saying he abused his position as an mp at the church of england's general synod will now give blessings to same sex couples in civil partnerships and marriages

. that oppose greasing the motion that now allows same sex couples to attend services at anglican churches, including receiving god's blessing after a legal marriage ceremony in a joint statement. the archbishop of canterbury and york said it had been a long road to get to this point. the position on gay marriage, though, hasn't changed. same sex couples aren't allowed to actually marry in church . now, ukraine's president church. now, ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy has addressed an eu summit in brussels. he's lobbying leaders to provide more weapons to ukraine in the fighting inside russia, which he's referred to as the biggest anti european force of the modern world. number ten says it won't send fighter jets to ukraine number ten says it won't send fighterjets to ukraine if number ten says it won't send fighter jets to ukraine if that puts the uk at risk, though the foreign and defence secretaries are currently in rome meeting their italian counterparts to

discuss ways of galvanising support for ukraine in the government's announced new legislation that forces social housing landlords to fix damp and mould . our jobs law comes and mould. ourjobs law comes following the death of two year old. our shark, which was directly caused by damp and mould in his home managed by rochdale borough wide housing , rochdale borough wide housing, the housing secretary, michael gove, says landlords who drag their feet will face the full force of the law . ambulance force of the law. ambulance crews across england have improved their response times for reaching people who dial 999. new nhs england data shows paramedics reached emergencies such as heart attacks and strokes an hour quicker last month than they did in december 2022. they took just over 32 minutes on average, compared with more than 90 the month before. however, the response time is still well above the

target of 18 minutes. and finally , burt bacharach, one of finally, burt bacharach, one of p0p finally, burt bacharach, one of pop music's greatest ever composers, has died at the age of 94. he wrote hits , like i say of 94. he wrote hits, like i say a little prayer and walk on by, as well as movie themes, including what's new pussycat and the look of love. his publicist says burt bacharach died surrounded by his family at his l.a. died surrounded by his family at his la. home on wednesday . his la. home on wednesday. that's it. you're up to date on tv, online and dab, plus radio . tv, online and dab, plus radio. this is gb news. back now to dewbs & co . dewbs& co. thanks for that, polly. well, i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company right through till 7:00 this evening alongside me, martin daubney, the journalist and the former brexit party mep , and peter edwards, the former editor of libellous. good evening, gentlemen. and you know

the drill, don't you? it's not just about those three here in the studio. it's very much about you at home. what's on your mind tonight? what do you think to the stories that will be discussed saying, should discussed, saying, should we have about bringing have a referendum about bringing back the penalty? where do back the death penalty? where do you on that? whole you stand on that? this whole kind off when it comes to kind of cut off when it comes to child benefit, to kids ? is that child benefit, to kids? is that fair? i'm saying it's fair? so i'm saying it's immoral. and actually it should just go on and on and on. as many kids as you want, you will be to get child benefit for be able to get child benefit for should not. and does it should you or not. and does it matter not equal number of matter if not an equal number of women are trying to get onto science technology courses as men . what is this obsession with men. what is this obsession with equality? am i missing something? is the world not going to be a good place if not enough women are studying those subjects? i want your thoughts on all of that and more facebook logins. this is not on my agenda, but i can't help but just get your opinions on it. the mp pay rise today 2.9. what do you think too , that support do you think too, that support that? do you think it was

enough? no, i don't suppose it particularly. i can't see the bafis particularly. i can't see the basis for it. we're constantly being unprecedented being told there's unprecedented pressure on public finances. being told there's unprecedented pressure on public finances . so pressure on public finances. so of course, inflation has been very high, but a starting point of around 80, 84 k is quite a significant amount of money. so why increase it further at this particular time ? oh, you're particular time? oh, you're a hard man to read with nerve. then do you support this 2.9? i would argue that envy should be paid more, and that's because i think i'm the political class is largely filled with people who can afford to be mps. it costs tens of thousands to get elected to it because you have to do it voluntarily. you don't get paid until you get elected. so great many people can afford to do it because they're already of good means. they can campaign themselves. they don't get paid to campaign. so as a consequence, normally get a donor a backer not donor or a backer not necessarily, no. i save your standing for a party more often than not, your party will be funding that. if you're talking about independents, then largely

people would go and get someone about independents, then largely pe supportuld go and get someone about independents, then largely pe supportuld go and 1them.neone to support them, back them. yeah, make the short yeah, you have to make the short list and people have list first. and so people have to their existing to give up their existing career. and i think generally we ought political class ought to have a political class who, who graduates and go straight into work experience. i've a decent, i've never really done a decent, honest work in their life honest day's work in their life before i got on shortlist. before i got on the shortlist. people why would give before i got on the shortlist. peopjob why would give before i got on the shortlist. peopjob up why would give before i got on the shortlist. peopjob up before would give before i got on the shortlist. peopjob up before you ld give before i got on the shortlist. peopjob up before you got give before i got on the shortlist. peopjob up before you got on give yourjob up before you got on the shortlist? well, or been selected as what saying selected as a what i'm saying is, know, the generally is, you know, the generally speaking don't attract speaking we don't attract the best because best talent polls. it's because there's better of there's followed better ways of earning i got paid earning a living. i got paid more a magazine editor than more as a magazine editor than i ever did as a politician, but think the place to think that's that's the place to be then i wanted to put it down badly. but i think you want badly. but i think if you want the talent, you got to pay the best talent, you got to pay so it was about 84. it's now about 86. you've had both . i've about 86. you've had both. i've got to say, you surprised me on that. have thought that that. i would have thought that you been batting for you would have been batting for it, them more . i it, saying give them more. i just of think actually the just kind of think actually the opfics it just kind of think actually the optics it look wrong this optics of it look wrong at this moment time. i think the 84 moment in time. i think the 84 is enough, isn't it, for the next year or so? i'm sure you could live on that. give me your thoughts. so i tell you how

thoughts. so did i tell you how to touch with me by the to get in touch with me by the way, in case you were a newbie to the show, you can email me gbviews@gbnews.uk is the email address tweet me at address or you can tweet me at michelle ju twitter is your michelle ju if twitter is your thing, by the way, i'm running a poll right now asking you a very simple question. do you support a return to the death penalty? yes on the reason i'm asking you this is because linda sin, we all know who he is . he's the all know who he is. he's the deputy chairman now of the tory party. there was an article that he's done recently which i have to make clear he did do before he was appointed to the position of chair of the tory party and he was saying basically that it wouldn't be opposed to seeing a return to the death penalty and as he explains himself, nobody has ever committed a crime after being executed. makes sense to me. peter, are you in favour of it? no. no. to i think it's barbaric and i think lee anderson justification. no one's ever committed a crime after being killed by the state is a

really foolish one. i don't think it's true. i think it's a well, lots of things are true. not necessarily good ideas. i think it's not the state's role to kill people. to me, the primary role of prison is not about punishment. it's about keeping everyone else the keeping everyone else safe. the law public clearly law abiding public clearly socially, very difficult to rehabilitate and some people, but it would just be going back 50 or 100 years in time. i know very few people that are proposing it. and the other point, lee anderson and hasn't really addressed is that there are miscarriages of justice. so can he give 100% guarantee that juries will reach the correct verdicts ? no future murder verdicts? no future murder cases? of course he can't . yeah, cases? of course he can't. yeah, that's very nice . i do agree that's very nice. i do agree with you, by the way. i saying that the primary purpose of prison should a prison should be a rehabilitation purpose to keep the private, should be other people safe. right. don't you think the private, the primary purpose of a prison should be to punish the person? and we talk about rehabilitation. don't i about rehabilitation. don't do i accept some are just

accept that some people are just out out wrong. and as they out and out wrong. and as they are beyond rehabilitation . yeah, are beyond rehabilitation. yeah, some people are beyond rehabilitation . they're rehabilitation. they're more serious. offending serious. and the offending spectrum absolutely point spectrum absolutely well point and prison then and keeping them in prison then because the alternative is killing and i think that's killing them and i think that's completely and is to completely barbaric and it is to me the primary purpose is to keep the 60 or more million people who are law abiding like all of us safe. that should be the main motivation of prison. martin daubney , please tell me martin daubney, please tell me you're sentence . you're going to speak sentence. say get the death say yes, let's get the death penalty well, lee penalty back. well, lee anderson, ashfield anvil, anderson, the ashfield anvil, the red wall vine is a pal of mine. i stood against him in ashfield in the election in 2090 and i wanted to beat him, but i was the first to shake his hand when when he thrashed me. now when he when he thrashed me. now he's the deputy chair. he serves only ruffling a lot of feathers and what he does, he kind of puts the wetherspoons into westminster. this is the conversation that happens all over working class britain and there's very much a feeling of who society support the who does society support the victim or the perpetrator of a crime . now, lee was careful with

crime. now, lee was careful with his words. all that's been lost, the nuance has been lost in the media reporting, of course, that he was saying and irrefutable case is such as the murder of lee rigby, where there was video evidence he would support a return and actually that is not a minority position. the latest figures we have on this from yougov march of last year and yougov in march of last year and 58% of people support multiple murderers being executed at 54, terrorists and 52% support child murderers being executed. so this is not an extreme minority position actually, brit, so i personally don't agree with the death penalty. i have a sister who lives in texas . i spent who lives in texas. i spent a lot of time in america. i've beenin lot of time in america. i've been in america where people have been executed. i don't think it's the way we should go, but i do think we should be allowed to debate about this because allowed because we're not allowed to debate at the debate about anything at the moment. trans issues, moment. zero trans issues, immigration. gb immigration. you are on that gb news. that's not that's what it's that's why it's the fastest growing but the facts growing tv channel but the facts matter laser wrecking ball matter is laser wrecking ball and think we should be having

and i think we should be having this we a this conversation. will we get a referendum? last referendum? no chance. the last time guy was won, they time the guy was won, they didn't result they didn't get the result they wanted. they'll never let us have referendum on this. have a referendum on this. i don't think we ever see it don't think we will ever see it and it won't be tory policy. policy already today policy rishi sunak already today comment way. i don't comment said no way. i don't agree lee, but is agree with lee, but lee is having those conversations. he's pushing and he's pushing the envelope and he's making like making the tory feel like a landing for people who landing place for people who are, it, old are, as you call it, old fashioned, right wing. i think when you've got a situation where beyond all where somebody is beyond all doubt, can see that they've doubt, you can see that they've done this hideous crime . you've done this hideous crime. you've got the dna evidence. you've probably got video evidence. there is no conceivable way that this person is not guilty and you've got this whole life tariff now, this whole lifetime. so you're going to be in prison for the rest of your days. it's about 70 year old people in this country fit into that country that fit into that bracket. are people bracket. they are people like wayne cousins, people like michael. how do i pronounce that? adebolajo lee rigby. lee rigby . the person that killed jo rigby. the person that killed jo cox. these kind of people, they

never coming out. what so what is the point? and this is to me, i perhaps would certainly be in favour of a referendum on this issue, and then i would respect the results. i just cannot get my head around about the results. i just cannot get my head around abou t £48,000 my head around about £48,000 per annum on average, it costs to keep someone incarcerated and probably when you get here probably more when you get here secure at the end of prison. this what is the point in spending that money is a waste. isn't case you isn't that what the case is? you highlighted horrendous and highlighted are horrendous and i think always be think we've always got to be conscious that pain for conscious that the pain for bereaved goes on every bereaved families goes on every day. they face their own life sentence. if they've lost someone, after the someone, even perhaps after the newspaper been newspaper coverage has been down, down. but i'm not god and the state is not god, and it's not the state's role to play god. and i don't believe, even if there's 100% certainty about verdict , that it's a state's verdict, that it's a state's role to kill people . the role to kill people. the interesting about the cost interesting thing about the cost of it, because lee talks about the of keeping these people the cost of keeping these people in prison, the cost to keep lee rigby's killers a 45 year term and an entire life term is about 6 million quid for they're just

there to lives just to keep them in jail. 6 million quid. i think people have a right to say or to ask the question, that really ask the question, is that really how should be spending our how we should be spending our money? of course, money? the problem, of course, is to america is is when you look to america is it actually a deterrent? well there are many people on there are many, many people on death row who evidence the fact it doesn't deter in the uk. i've spent time in calgary jails. i'll go in and give them seminars on men's issues and i've met killers, i've met serial killers and i've asked them would a death penalty put you off? and they say, no , you off? and they say, no, because a lot of the guys who did premeditate sex, murder, they said i would do it again. they'll often don't regret doing it because they crimes of it because they were crimes of passion. were crimes of passion. they were crimes of revenge. very, very complex passion. they were crimes of reveit's. very, very complex passion. they were crimes of reveit's very, very, very complex passion. they were crimes of reveit's very, very very complex passion. they were crimes of reveit's very, very nuanced plex passion. they were crimes of reveit's very, very nuanced .lex and it's very, very nuanced. while i the feeling of while i think the feeling of immediate justice is tempting , immediate justice is tempting, isn't it better to let these two extremists rot in jail forever than have their martyrdom? no, i would say because probably all the time that they were in prison, i wouldn't put it past them to be able in some way to

be able to influence is open, coming out , radicalising coming out, radicalising terrorists, but i don't believe that you can literally lock these people in a box , never let these people in a box, never let them communicate ever again with anyone. i'm sure that there are able to communicate so for me personally, no, actually , i personally, no, actually, i don't think it's better to just leave them languishing. i would say you clearly don't respect human rights. you know, if you're going to do what you did, i don't need to go over. it's time. i think you'll all remember that awful situation of lee rigby. if you want to do that, you clearly don't respect human rights. so off you the human rights. so off you go. the flaw was some of flaw in the plan was some of these people lose. they will probably think they're going to some paradise that's littered probably think they're going to somevirgins.se that's littered probably think they're going to somevirgins. remembertered with virgins. remember it. is that probably that so? they probably would quite so would quite like that. so that would be a bit of a flaw in my plan. anyway, the european convention of rights, when we have of human rights, when we have a member which we member of that which we currently you're not currently are, you're not allowed able to bring back allowed to be able to bring back the anyway. so the death penalty anyway. so isn't if someone in isn't that if someone is in favour isn't that an favour of this, isn't that an argument? what another argument

for leaving the convention for human rights to me, this issue is about justice and it transcends the eu and the debate around that and even transcends money. and i'm sorry if i'm a broken record. it's not the state's role to kill people . state's role to kill people. well, i would say really. let me ask you guys at home, is there any more sense lacking among the viewers? because i think it's quite a good idea to have a referendum, but i am making it clear the european convention of human rights would mean that we're not able to bring it back at all currently as things stand , pete says, well, don't again. lee anderson you would. i mean, you would go a bit further for pete's. i might leave it there, but i get you just. oliver says the death penalty should be reintroduced for murder and rapists. i like this next. but actually, oliver and i agree with you. sensible person . the with you. sensible person. the victim's next of kin should be given the option to decide whether the guilty or not should face execution. i think that's

very fair . since says absolutely very fair. since says absolutely not. you cannot trust the police in any way so they could up the wrong person. susan says , yes, wrong person. susan says, yes, yes. and once again, yes. peter said. i would definitely like the death penalty to be reinstated. for what crimes? tell me . and mary says, tell me. and mary says, absolutely, definitely . this absolutely, definitely. this country is way too lenient and soft . very briefly, by the way, soft. very briefly, by the way, do you think lee anderson is the right person for this role? yes, i think it's an excellent choice. the he balances off. the other point of mr. hans, who's a remainer, a very shy, a tory. he's a red wardley, is a red wall. but as i said, he's he's making people from working class environments feel welcome in the policy. and he's also neutralise and i think the threats of other smaller policies. i think it's an excellent appointment. do you agree? particularly . i think agree? not particularly. i think some of these views we've been talking about tonight from lee anderson bit foolish, but anderson are a bit foolish, but i also think in time he may become a bit of a liability for

rishi sunak. his style of communicating is a world away from that lee anderson , but from that lee anderson, but don't to be able to don't you need to be able to reach across kind of breadth of person and therefore some styles of communication might reach that many people? and then actually lee anderson style of communication might actually engage group of engage a different group of people at perhaps not massively engaged politics in the engaged with politics in the first but i first place. so yeah, but i think we've peter but what think we've got peter but what we is class example. we mean is about class example. tony quite tony blair from quite a comfortable background governed alongside from alongside john prescott was from very poor background. is it about and red about geography and the red wall? is it about the job you've done before entering parliament? it's good to a range but it's good to have a range but and lee anderson is entitled for his views. as daft as i think they are. but you know , there's they are. but you know, there's nothing that he said so far that impresses me. surely it's about diversity of opinion . we talk diversity of opinion. we talk about diversity all the time, he has a monoculture of how we're allowed to things allowed to think about things like net transgender, the like net zero, transgender, the immigration leigh is setting out his style rishi sunak already disagreed. it healthy to disagreed. isn't it healthy to have a broad church of opinion

within one well then you within one party? well then you must toe the party line. that's what i would say. well, to me, monoculture. no it's monoculture. there is no it's about to my guys ladies about say to my guys and ladies at home, what do you make to lee anderson? does it turn you off politics or perhaps engage you? let me know your thoughts when i come back from my break. did you know it's apprenticeship week this week ? no, i hear you say, this week? no, i hear you say, what do you do now? and get this according to the labour party, it's to a long it's going to take a very long time indeed before the number of women applying to go into what you stems, they let you you call stems, they let you sign technology, whatever sign some technology, whatever will as of will be the same as a number of men applying those subjects. and i just want to ask you and what does that matter? if so , why? does that matter? if so, why? give me your files. i'll see you into .

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry

and i'm with you right through till 7:00 tonight, alongside me, martin daubney, the journalist and former brexit party mep and peter edwards, the former editor of labour list. welcome back , of labour list. welcome back, everybody. lots of you would be in favour of the referendum for the death penalty. i'm asking you on your twitter as well. i'm doing a quick poll. give me your yes or no answer and i'll have the response at the end of the show . david said yes. the response at the end of the show. david said yes. in capitals, i think any person who was committed an outrageous crime loses the right to be considered a human being . but considered a human being. but who decides what an outrageous crime is? david there might be a difference there . and who would difference there. and who would get the final say? you give me your thoughts on that call. blimey phil, are you looking for a bit of work? he says 100. bnng a bit of work? he says 100. bring it back. i would even offer my services and be the hangman and i would do it for free. but graham is not offering any of that because he says the

challenge when it comes to death penalty is the effect that it would have on the staff that have to administer it. it can be traumatic . you speak there like traumatic. you speak there like someone that's got a bit of experience. jenny says experience. graham jenny says i'm all for the death penalty for killers of people like lee rigby, i.e. when there are no doubts we can play god with other species . why not humans ? i other species. why not humans? i must ask the question. i just ask myself, though, a minute ago for some of those people, i think they might quite like the idea of being killed so that they can go off into their so—called paradise. what about that situation then? isn't that counterproductive ? give me your counterproductive? give me your thoughts anyway , labour has thoughts anyway, labour has released research showing on current trends . it would take current trends. it would take get this 22 years to get the same amount of women as men into stem subjects . what is a stem stem subjects. what is a stem science tech , engineering and science tech, engineering and maths ? let me get straight to maths? let me get straight to the chairs. right. why does this matter? peter to me it's not about quotas , it's about good about quotas, it's about good decision making and the economy at works. so to give one

example, the banking crisis in 2008, there were lots of different for that. you different reasons for that. you know, regulation to risk to know, from regulation to risk to pay know, from regulation to risk to pay and so on. but one of the strands of that put forward was there an enormous there was an enormous preponderance of men making key decisions in executive boardrooms and actually having something close to a gender balance. we do have two mathematical about it, but a bit more balance gives you access to a of views, but also a range of views, but also access range of skill sets access to a range of skill sets . you might better . and you might make better decisions as a result. so of course, training the next generation, not, of course, is everything presumably from building to teaching building aeroplanes to teaching science schools and to have science in schools and to have better female representation seems a great idea . but then, do seems a great idea. but then, do you think it should be a choice? i.e. girls, if you want to go into that, off you go. or do you think it should be more engineered? well, it's always going choice for going to be a choice for individuals we can all individuals because we can all choose to study a—level. so choose what to study a—level. so if enough to go to if we're lucky enough to go to university and but there university and so on. but there are government targets across pretty everything pretty much everything in society, to sport to society, from crime to sport to waiting to educate

waiting lists to educate science. the idea you have a central target , even if you central target, even if you don't need from which some don't need to, from which some behavioural follows , is behavioural change follows, is a good and targets tend to good thing. and targets tend to be proposed by governments of all stripes. what do you think this martin do you think as a woman, by the way, just as a disclosure, i am a woman. i think really i mean, i think that i think really i mean, i think thati can think really i mean, i think that i can still say that. and i my professional career has been in stem. so i've always worked in stem. so i've always worked in i.t, i've always been pretty much i would say the only girl. it didn't bother me one jot. i have a right to time. lots of banter, never felt kind of. i wanted more girls to be around me or anything like that. does it matter if girls are underrepresented in that sector? no because it's about freedom of choice and the funny thing is, when you look at the gender equality paradox, the societies typically with the most choice and the most equality on the planet, finland , sweden, norway planet, finland, sweden, norway , they have a very, very low

takeup of women choosing stem subjects, whereas when you look at places like oman and morocco , where they are very patriarchal, , where they are very patriarchal , they have the patriarchal, they have the highest take up on the planet and that why is that quite simply because it's about financial independence and not be upon men is be reliant upon men is beneficial . so in countries like beneficial. so in countries like oman, whereas where you have a fair childcare system equality well paid and cheap childcare for women, they tend not to go into stem system stem studies and so therefore or when we look at choice , it should be about at choice, it should be about that. and when we also look at what women do choose to do, 75% of teachers or women , 60% of of teachers or women, 60% of women, 80% a psychiatrist, women , 90% of midwives are women. great but we never hear for equality drives to get more men into those those those services where we probably should. what do you think we should pay inequality. so whatever when i first got into politics as a campaigning journalist on men's

issues and looking at the lack of father figures and a previous item about the boom in knife crime absent father figures is a huge driving issue and there's loads and loads of evidence to show that putting positive male role models into those boys lives has a huge beneficial effect for all of society. lowering crime , lowering lowering crime, lowering addiction , and less teenage addiction, and less teenage pregnancies. and if you've got more male teachers, that would be a positive intervention. i've beenin be a positive intervention. i've been in parliament, i've sat down politicians , i've written down politicians, i've written endless articles on this . and to endless articles on this. and to date in the uk, the precise is zero campaigns for this because it would be sexist. so what i'm saying is you can't cherry pick where we have these equality drives . i'll leave it to freedom drives. i'll leave it to freedom of choice . and when we do that, of choice. and when we do that, women in the west are less likely to choose stem subjects. yeah. see i'm all about choice, but i also think there's something, peter, because i would always say if i had my time again, my career again, i would have been a trader in the city. but the flaw in the plan

for me, i was at school in hull. i didn't even know the was i didn't even know the city was a thing. didn't know about a thing. i didn't know about stocks and shares trading. it was just i just didn't know any of anything about that. so i believe that you can't be what you can't see. so whilst i absolutely believe in choice and individual choice and i don't agree with this , you know, silly agree with this, you know, silly with one guy, there's a one girl place agree with any place i don't agree with any of that and don't agree with that and i don't agree with quotas. i do think we've got to get better at showing all kids, not girls, but all kids. not just girls, but all kids. these the opportunities that these are the opportunities that kind if want to kind of wait. you if you want to go into them. there's nothing like the party i've proposed today that would restrict choice is about trying to open up choice. but like the ideas and choice. but i like the ideas and the phrase used, i think is what you can't see, what you can't see, you can't be. it because it is about opportunities , you is about opportunities, you know, example, when i went know, for example, when i went to university 20 years ago and studied english literature , studied english literature, which particularly black which is not particularly black ish, a lot poems, very ish, reading a lot poems, very romantic certain extent , romantic to a certain extent, but also i was able to do that.

perhaps because i came from a fairly comfortable family 20 years where the fees are years on, where the fees are much, much, much higher. and if you from a poor household, the way you choose your course is going to be totally different because or because thinking, well, three or four reading a lot four years, reading a lot of poems is very intellectually enriching you've got 50 enriching. but if you've got 50 grand debt at end of it grand of debt at the end of it all then you need to buy all and then you need to buy a house. so i think your where you come from, what you can see as you put it in your background is just as important. yeah, but that's gender, is it? that's not about gender, is it? that's equality that's about equality of background. you're background. like if you're working less working class, you're much less likely to university. i'm likely to go to university. i'm a miner, so i made it. but a coal miner, so i made it. but back the day when i went to back in the day when i went to university, full grant university, there's a full grant and wouldn't do that now. and i wouldn't do that now. i doubt and i wouldn't do that now. i douth and i wouldn't do that now. i doubt i will go down that route because i the prospects are taking 50 grand debt. to me taking on a 50 grand debt. to me would stratospheric subjects. taking on a 50 grand debt. to me woul

want you want to learn want to do and you want to learn your and the rest of your poems and all the rest of it, do it on time. so i it, do it on your time. so i think you should have fees and things like that. those types of courses a little courses we digressed a little bit, i kind end the bit, i must say. i kind end the segment because it is national apprentice week and i feel that apprenticeships a bit apprenticeships get a little bit of unfair rap. i think that of an unfair rap. i think that there's of stigma there's a bit of a stigma sometimes about young people choosing over choosing apprenticeships over going university. and must going to university. and i must say of everything say, you know, out of everything i've done in my life, i tend to forget what we used to call a white whites. i think they changed that then, but we still call them that. i did a apprenticeship in business administration honestly, administration and honestly, it set to achieve in set me on my path to achieve in business. anyone that's got business. so anyone that's got a young kid who doesn't know to what do as next step are what do as a next step are highly, highly recommend and a modern apprenticeship. so i do. anyway, i'm going to take a quick when i come back i'll have some thoughts that. some your thoughts on that. i also want talk to you as well about net zero are you've been asked to make too many changes do you think to your life when countries like india, china are doing they quite

doing whatever they want? quite frankly been frankly and also it's been suggest it's today that capping the number of children that you can receive benefit for is basically immoral and unfair. should we be able to just have as many children as we want and keep on receiving child benefit for them currently , the limit for them currently, the limit for them currently, the limit for new children is to give me your thoughts and i'll see you into into .

this saturday at 8 pm. tune in to a gb news investigates documentary as we tell the full story of the grooming gang scandal. the child child was being stolen . we will expose the being stolen. we will expose the cover ups that have kept this national scandal under wraps for decades not one person as being held accountable. our investigation uncovers the true scale of this outrage . i want to scale of this outrage. i want to see senior officials held legally to account on gb news, who's grooming gangs. britain's

shame . hi there, michelle shame. hi there, michelle dewberry. and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight alongside of me. martin daubney is the journalist and former brexit party mep and peter edwards is the former editor of libellous . welcome back, libellous. welcome back, everybody . tim has been libellous. welcome back, everybody. tim has been in libellous. welcome back, everybody . tim has been in touch everybody. tim has been in touch saying there should never be, quote , says we were just talking quote, says we were just talking in case you've just joined us about how much effort we need to put into getting women into like science and tech. how does it matter about equality? says matter about equality? tim says there never quotas if there should never be quotas if quotas to make sense , then quotas are to make sense, then it be applied to things it should be applied to things like bricklaying they like bricklaying as well. they seem to be about 90 odd% male . seem to be about 90 odd% male. yes, it does matter , says philip yes, it does matter, says philip . well, look at gp's when women get to an age when they want to start a family high percentage want to work part time. but with a lot of engineering jobs you have to be there full time . hm

have to be there full time. hm philip you know when you do stem, for example , you could do stem, for example, you could do it. so if as a woman you could become an it contractor , you're become an it contractor, you're down a small fortune and you would be able to work from home. we all know how popular that is these days. paul why should the labour party be concerned about how it take can take how long it take can take a woman when it comes to stem? they should totally be focussed on state of the country on the state of the country instead of trivialities. paul celebrate quick wins where we get mean that get them. i mean the fact that they can a woman in this they can define a woman in this instance, that as a instance, i'm taking that as a positive . jeremy corbyn positive anyway. jeremy corbyn has been speaking in parliament again , this time about child again, this time about child benefit and i can tell you it's really divided opinion . he says really divided opinion. he says it's unfair that the benefit , it's unfair that the benefit, the child benefit, that you get it basically cuts off after you've had to children recently anyway previously get it for more and it's really he's saying it's immoral in essence . martin it's immoral in essence. martin daubney the way it works now is if you've had your children before, what is the day? it's

90, sorry, 2017. you get it for my children. but for children after that, you have a cap to your first. when you get a bit more for your second one, you get a bit less for and that's it. is that right? i think it is. so i've got two kids. and when it came to have my second child, i really, really thought long and hard about can afford long and hard about can i afford this? can i afford a second child? i'm really grateful that i peaceful daughter i did have a peaceful daughter who's watching who's probably watching love me, darling, i just think that darling, but i just think that we have this this split of position on those who work hard and pay their way and those who get this expect the state to pay their way. and i think jeremy corbyn can surprise what's more people dependent on the state more people to vote for labour party because again handouts and i it sets a bad precedent. i think it sets a bad precedent. we see this rolling into public housing stock , council housing housing stock, council housing stock and i think that's a huge problem with benefit dependency in the uk we have 8 million people currently not in work and i think setting a dependency culture at an early age sets a

template for life and i don't think we should be going down this route. i think where we are at the moment is just about right. so just in case you're wondering for your child, you get £21, 80 a week . for your get £21, 80 a week. for your second child, you get get £21, 80 a week. for your second child, you ge t £14, 45, second child, you get £14, 45, and then that's you a lot. what do you think it pizza? i think martin's language is appalling and think to use words like dependency and imply a culture of fecklessness and living off the state is completely inappropriate. we don't want that happens. i didn't interrupt you.soi that happens. i didn't interrupt you. so i think , you know, you. so i think, you know, having a child is a gift from god. there's tonnes of challenges. and i think new parents, especially new mums, work incredibly hard. you know, often on duty 24 hours a day. this a policy that was to right wing even for margaret thatcher and it was a tories in the 21st century that that brought it in andifs century that that brought it in and it's a relatively small sum and it's a relatively small sum and i think it's a cruel policy

. he says. you're a little out of order. your language not especially bothered if you're by my language. i'm more bothered about keeping the balance in check. so of the fiscal bill, i mean, we're in record amounts of debt. and this idea that we should just extend benefit dependency and the cost of living to , you know, to, to mums living to, you know, to, to mums i think is out of step with the time. but then again what we expect corbyn on things he was founded on the magic money tree and that's is now and and that's this is now and unfortunately have a tory unfortunately we have a tory government believes in the government which believes in the same sort of endless give away policies and what be policies and what we should be doing is i'm for all doing is saying i'm for all making right informed making the right informed decisions and getting tax breaks for example, to have children different thing, taking different thing, not taking money away from people as opposed giving away , i opposed to giving money away, i think where we're at. we think is where we're at. we shouldn't be given more handouts out into this age. out into this day and age. i think it sends out the wrong message. i mean, the premise of what say is wrong in seven what you say is wrong in seven areas. for example, i'm not areas. i, for example, i'm not a corbynite saying , i corbynite and what i'm saying, i think it was basically similar

to what people like tony blair and john said about there and john major said about there weren't restrictions weren't these restrictions on child tony child benefit them and tony blair john major weren't blair and john major weren't crazy and he used the crazy lefties and he used the word dependency repeatedly as well. can live 0 n £20 well. who can live on £20 a week? put your hand up. well, you get free house top and you you get a free house top and you get a free house benefit . so get a free house benefit. so hang on, you get free house. i mean, so benefits if you're a single mother, for example, and you're on benefits, for example, and you're you get a council house and then the state is bankrolling you, having more and more. is that fast working more. how is that fast working parents are long parents who are thinking long and even having and hard about even having a child this diana age? it's child in this diana age? it's not is unfair. that's the not is unfair. that's not the question talking we question we're talking about. we haven't made any reference to whether not the parent is in whether or not the parent is in work. you're borrowing. i basically talk with the language from what your point. from the right. what your point. but we're not talking about whether the parents the employment about employment we're talking about the the and the the cost to the state and the rights the child. and by the rights of the child. and by the way, be clear, you do way, just to be clear, you do get your child if you get your child benefit if you work well. but once she start work as well. but once she start getting to about i think getting up to about i think it's

about 50 odd grand. then you start to lose some of your entitlements. find entitlements. why do you find the of benefit the concept of benefit dependency offensive or dependency be offensive or whatever word you used? whatever word you just used? yeah, i didn't use the word defensive, but i do think it's wrong to use the word dependency in this context because think in this context because i think , michelle child , as you said, michelle child benefit up to a certain salary threshold is universal . so threshold is universal. so there's no moral judgement made on it. it goes to one parent family, two point family with you in work or not. and then it tapers off for higher earners. so and i'll just finish that point briefly that there's a separate often very ferocious debate in politics about, you know, does centre around dependency. and i think george , dependency. and i think george, his chancellor, really fuelled that by i think trying to import that by i think trying to import that a simple discussion about child benefit is wrong . so let child benefit is wrong. so let me ask you this very briefly. aside from child benefit, let's pass child benefit very briefly over there. do you think that people should be a little bit more considerate of financial role planning and means whilst

considering how many children? so how do you think your finances should be a factor ? i finances should be a factor? i think finances should be a factor when we plan for family. but what i'd say, and i think what applies to millions and millions of people is lots children unplanned. and those children unplanned. and those children are still loved. and those children still have the same rights, or not same rights, whether or not they're planned. but we they're planned. yeah, but we also have birth control. also can have birth control. what is if we have what i'm saying is if we have a situation where it is financially beneficial to have more children, if you're on benefits, which we do have and to deny the benefit dependency is an issue , is i think, to live is an issue, is i think, to live in denial if reality well, if we talk to people in places like ashfield, where my members live for 25 years now, there is an absolute feeling that work doesn't pay, it pays to be on. but many people are on benefits on the same money as working. leads me to a good point. i have to go to break, but before i do very quickly, do you agree that there should be a cap to what you can receive in benefits? i'm

talking benefits, plural, not a household one. yeah. personally i'd like to get britain back to a where that a state of prosperity where that can we're not can be removed. but we're not there yet. i don't understand what mean. if someone's on what you mean. if someone's on benefits, think they benefits, do you think they should to what they should be a cap as to what they can receive in handouts the can receive in handouts from the state? the last eight state? but for the last eight years it wasn't necessary. i don't care. for eight years i'm asking going forward today asking now, going forward today and do and today's society, do you think there a cap on think there should be a cap on how people can receive from how much people can receive from the handouts ? i'd the government in handouts? i'd like remove in britain is like to see remove in britain is welfare so you think that someone be potentially someone can be potentially wealthier at working wealthier at home not working than someone who goes out to work and just say that's okay. but if you remove the cap, that's what you achieve . that's what you would achieve. of this boils of your evidence, this boils down to basic common sense boils down to basic common sense boils down to basic common sense boils down to those on the political left. and i include myself in the i used to be labour votes for 20 is what more state dependency, more state control, more involvement, more state involvement, more reliance upon the state and those on conservative side those on the conservative side want agency. well you want more self agency. well you tell me at home what, do you make today, do you think it's

bit harsh not to allow people the child benefit from beyond two children. and i want to ponder as that last point ponder as well that last point i just put to you can think just put to peter. you can think about during the break and about that during the break and tell me your answers. do you think we should have a cap for the amount over all benefits the amount of over all benefits a household can receive? i certainly give me certainly do. but you give me your and i'll see you your thoughts and i'll see you into .

that. welcome back to dewbs& co. i'm keeping you company right through till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, matt daubney, the journalist and former brexit party mep and peter edwards, the former editor of labour list. you guys have been in touch in your droves , rob says. yes there your droves, rob says. yes there should be a cap on the number of children that a mother or family can have a claim for. bit harsh on the next line there, rob, you

said professional baby factories should not be a career choice . should not be a career choice. cor blimey, i'm one of six. by the way, christopher says if you choose to have a child, that's up to you to look after them. i've got a dog. what? and i don't expect government's help for her. so ultimately i expect help just because you've got two or three for all my children . or three for all my children. christopher, i hate to break. it's either my friend, the dog's are not going to. well, actually, i say that or not, but going forward, it's not the dogs you need to keep civilisation going country that we're going in this country that we're not to be progressing very not going to be progressing very much run out of children's much if we run out of children's to keep population going, to keep the population going, even if we do still have our dogs. jenny's to scrap child benefit give all kids free benefit and give all kids free school dinners and uniforms. no one should be given a child benefit . if you can't have kids, benefit. if you can't have kids, don't afford them . stephen says don't afford them. stephen says you should get child benefit for one child just because you're starting out. and after that, if you want more kids, you should foot the bill. by the way, lots of people saying if you can't

afford kids to have them . let me afford kids to have them. let me ask you this. so what about if your circumstances change? i don't know. say you're married, you've got kids, your you've got three kids, your husband away . what? husband passes away. what? then you me anyway. look at the you tell me anyway. look at the time it flies. doesn't it? when you fun? let's net you having fun? let's talk net zero then before i go, shall we because can't open access we because i can't open access we have been asked to make quite a lot changes into our life at this moment in time. i'm definitely forward in the definitely going forward in the pursuit whether pursuit of net zero, whether it's cars , whether it's extra it's cars, whether it's extra taxes on various different things, eating less meat, wood burners , whatever . are these burners, whatever. are these micro changes to our lives really needed? when you got china setting up more coal mines in india , doing whatever they in india, doing whatever they want, etc. i think any government that says but the parliament of zero deserves to net zero votes at the next election from the working class communities who are the hardest hit is a luxury belief hit by what is a luxury belief system of the system in terms of the proportion of revenue that we spend on staying alive , spend on staying alive, especially on heating at the moment , net zero especially on heating at the

moment, net zero is hammering the working classes . what we the working classes. what we should be doing is investing more in our own energy sovereignty. we should be relying on the future beneath our feet shall . relying on the future beneath our feet shall. coal relying on the future beneath our feet shall . coal we've we've our feet shall. coal we've we've import at 39% more coal in the last quarter than before because renewables cannot keep the lights on. there's no sun the moment. there's no wind at the moment. there's no wind at the moment when we need the most power, it's the same in germany. they've upped the nz full of full coal power power stations in the uk all currently firing up and on standby to keep the lights on. and then we look at how politicians pick our pockets you lairs city coal and scheme in london which is going to roll out nationwide. watch it, out nationwide. you watch it, the bad ideas start london, the bad ideas start in london, then elsewhere, then they end up elsewhere, netting then they end up elsewhere, nettin g £300 million this netting £300 million with this august expansion is already that's at £96 million we expand it it last saw that's almost half a billion quid a year pick pocketed highway robbed of motorists motorist who can least afford it . people buy electric afford it. people buy electric coal vans white van man they're

getting hammered by this system and it is driving the working class to poverty and the left used to care about the working class. now the bleeding them dry . is that fair paper? you don't need to guess martin can do the talking for both of us in terms of net zero, i think it's good that we will a bit less that we will use a bit less energy. hopefully it's for energy. hopefully it's good for our wallets and good for the planet as well. i think my worry is what you alluded to at the start i think right that we start i think is right that we will bit and it's right will do our bit and it's right that britain does its bit, but if china is building the equivalent, i think of one equivalent, i think its of one coal fired power station a day on average global problem on average it's global problem and a bit a gordon brown and it's a bit of a gordon brown ism. it needs global solution, ism. it needs a global solution, but being pushed but dating we're being pushed a little far. when you little bit too far. when you read about schools, i want to say it's in edinburgh. i think it where you can't eat meat it is where you can't eat meat now because is all about now because this is all about helping protect planet, helping to protect the planet, don't on, i just don't you think? come on, i just been a bit daft. i'm very surprised at that. and i think it's to kids choice . i it's important to kids choice. i haven't eaten meat for about 20 odd years, so you're not a

developing child? yeah, not exactly. that's my point. i wouldn't want to force that on other people, especially a young one. so i'm a bit surprised by that. and ultimately saving the planet , eating less meat will planet, eating less meat will help, but think it's our energy usage that's key thing. well, guys at home, i want your thoughts at the start of this programme. by the way, we debated the death penalty and whether or not there should at least be a referendum to bring it i was asking you guys it back. i was asking you guys on twitter your thoughts, my inbox was on with lot inbox was on fire with that lot of yes. and of people saying yes. and specifically twitter specifically on that twitter poll, 73% of you said yes , you poll, 73% of you said yes, you want it back, 27% of you said, no, you don't . bad news for no, you don't. bad news for ehhen no, you don't. bad news for either, because all the time that we're in the european convention human rights, you convention of human rights, you can anyway. what can have it back anyway. so what you is not going to move , you think is not going to move, i just said a you think is not going to move, ijust said a nice you think is not going to move, i just said a nice response saying the best tv debate show you've seen in a very long time, superb. that's from but well done. you are a person that's really helping people like peter and i can come and have and i can come on and have

different so thanks me different opinions so thanks me it it's better when it is and it's even better when you respect my because that you respect my time because that is nice night, nigel is all. have a nice night, nigel is all. have a nice night, nigel is next. i'll you is up next. i'll see you tomorrow. hello again. it's aidan magee seven here from the met office. some clear spells lingering in the south overnight, to a frost in overnight, leading to a frost in places by dawn. otherwise a lot of cloud, actually. and relatively mild with a breeze coming it coming from the west, southwest and a warm front arriving during the nights that warm front will push milder air in from the atlantic . it will in from the atlantic. it will also bring a lot of cloud with it. so any remaining showers in the far north of scotland easing , but then more persistent damp weather arriving into the north and northwest of scotland. that reaching parts of reaching western parts of northern ireland by the end of the night. lots of cloud for northern ireland, scotland, northern ireland, scotland, northern parts of northern england, parts of wales, these areas wales, but away from these areas under spells , temperatures under clear spells, temperatures dropping , a few dropping fairly widely, a few degrees below freezing, mostly , degrees below freezing, mostly, but in sheltered spots as but in some sheltered spots as low as minus seven celsius and a few fog patches first thing. but actually that's where the

brightest skies will be across central and southern parts of england, remaining in england, sunshine remaining in the south—east into the afternoon. cloud in afternoon. but cloud toppling in elsewhere and that cloud thick enough to give some spots of rain and drizzle western rain and drizzle of western hills the south—west hills of wales, the south—west northwest england and more persistent rain for the north and west of scotland at times. but north—east of scotland , but the north—east of scotland, the break up well the cloud will break up well and, could see 12 and, here we could see 12 celsius into friday evening. the cloud remains across the uk, but they'll be some thinning of the cloud , some breaks appearing cloud, some breaks appearing through the night and as a result, a patchy frost couldn't be ruled out across southern parts, but more extensively we'll see low cloud covering the hills of wales in the southwest , as well as much of western scotland. northwest england. so gloomy start in places on saturday. it'll take some for that cloud to lift and break up and in some places the cloud will remain particularly of western hills, a few spots of rain where that happens across western scotland, parts of wales for example, but otherwise some sunny spells coming through and

it's going to be feeling milder on quite widely . on saturday quite widely. temperatures of 10 to 13 celsius

it's thursday night and this is for raj at la long from luton. please welcome your host nige . please welcome your host nige. beryl tonight he's here live in luton . we're going to talk about luton. we're going to talk about the complete failure of the proposed programme . we all got proposed programme. we all got to talk about how amazing it and what a good job i may not be. we're going to be joined on

talking highlights by kerry