in the world. the country in the world. the establishment had their chance. now we're here to represent your views . britain's watching. views. britain's watching. britain's watching , britain's britain's watching, britain's watching. we're proud to be gb news the people's channel. britain's news. channel hello there. good evening. it's just gone. 7:00. i'm bethany elsey with your top stories from the gb newsroom. the number of people who've been killed in earthquakes that hit turkey and syria have risen to 33,000. rescue workers are still searching through the rubble and they say the for window survivors is closing . but some survivors is closing. but some people were found alive today, including a nine year old boy. he spent almost a week under a collapsed building. an appeal by the uk disasters emergency committee has raised more than

£60 million in just three days. labour party is urging the bbc chair to consider his position after mps found he breached standards when applying for the role . a cross—party committee role. a cross—party committee says richard sharp, made significant errors of judgement when he failed to declare that he'd helped boris johnson to secure a loan when he was prime minister. shadow culture secretary lucy powell is questioning whether he's still able to uphold trust and independence in the broadcaster. it was report. it really is an unprecedented report means that mr. sharp's position is increasing , untenable mr. sharp's position is increasing, untenable and he really should now reflect on whether he's able to carry that very important role as the bbc chair to uphold public trust and independence of the bbc , independence of the bbc, warrington police have launched a murder investigation after a 60 year old girl was found stabbed to death in cheshire yesterday. brianna gay was found

by members of the public with multiple stab wounds near linear park. emergency services arrived , but she was pronounced dead at the scene . the force is looking the scene. the force is looking to speak with two people described as a white man and woman . the chair of the commons woman. the chair of the commons defence select committee is urging to boost defence due to threats of a new cold war. tory mp tobias ellwood told gb news we need more money to replace military equipment and deal with aggression from russia and china . it comes after reports that some nato allies are concerned about the uk's military readiness. and a high altitude object over northern canada that officials say posed a threat to civilian aircraft has been shot over the yukon. it's the third object to have been shot down over north america in the past week, which at least one top us lawmaker says is another suspected chinese spy balloon. canadian prime ministerjustin trudeau says his forces will now

recover and analyse the wreckage . you're up to date on tv online .you're up to date on tv online and dab+ radio . this is tv news. and dab+ radio. this is tv news. now, though, it's time for free speech nation . speech nation. the new computer game hogwarts legacy course is must area among activists. a protest flares up at the tate britain over a drag queen and god goes gender neutral . this is god goes gender neutral. this is free speech nation . welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. on tonight's show i'm going to be talking to the barista, sarah fillmore, who is suing the ticketing website eventbrite for removing an event on the grounds of her gender critical beliefs. i'll also be meeting samantha presti, the comedian whose stand up show has

been cancelled because the venue does not approve of her opinions. i'll also be talking to baroness claire fox about how the house of lords has blocked the house of lords has blocked the government's public order bill, could bill, which could represent a grave to right to grave threat to the right to protest. and young will be protest. and toby young will be joining discuss new app joining to discuss a new app that rewrites fairy tales to be more politically correct. my studio guests this evening are the wonderful scot chaparro francis foster . welcome the wonderful scot chaparro francis foster. welcome i like dressed down for the occasion. it's really nice, but i like this because i can see your tattoos. i don't normally get to see them. no, i know. i normally try to hide them to guarantee work. okay you've that for work. okay you've done that for me.7 exactly. i suppose me.7 yeah exactly. i suppose i should i mean, that's should know. i mean, that's because it's actually a very expensive it is. you expensive topic. it is. you can't it. actually can't afford it. it's actually it's couture. paul smith. it's couture. ask paul smith. couture. just arrived couture. yeah, it's just arrived at one day. i don't at my house one day. i don't know, i just didn't. i thought i'd share it with tonight. i'd share it with you tonight. what do you think? i think you look back. look wonderful from the back. even thank you. so, some even better. thank you. so, some questions our lovely questions from our lovely audience. our first is audience. our first question is

from where heather? from heather. where is heather? high jk rowling. high heaven. hi it'sjk rowling. too to cancelled. too powerful to be cancelled. yeah so this week we've seen the release of hogwarts legacy, which is obviously this major video game adaptation of , the video game adaptation of, the whole sort of wizarding world created j.k. rowling. if created by j.k. rowling. and if you've online at all, you've been online at all, you'll have seen the absolute insanity activists . and insanity of activists. and people are so angry about this computer game that we can see a clip of what it looks like. it's quite a quite impressive, i would have thought. but people are very angry because they say that expressed that j.k. rowling has expressed views don't like. and views that they don't like. and they, for anyone plays the they, for anyone who plays the game, complicit evil. know game, is complicit in evil. know no, dominate the that's going on you computers ? no, i just you like computers? no, i just look like i do. they just fundamental difference this game. i mean i don't know i mean, i used to be into sonic the hedgehog. yes. this looks a bit more sophisticated than that. it looks a lot more sophisticated than that. and to me, what i find really interesting, it' s £60 buy interesting, it's £60 to buy this yes so it's expensive this game. yes so it's expensive and in a cost of living crisis that's even more expensive. yes. but once some of these activists

are doing, which i think is brilliant, buoyed a computer brilliant, is buoyed a computer game trashing it and then taking a photo of it and then uploading it to twitter and. i'm like, you do realise she's the money, it's the principle. yeah it's important that we resist it. although it is apparently the most streamed computer game. so it's hugely popular under the way because there's a lot of lonely people. that's why , you lonely people. that's why, you know, i'm of two minds about j.k. rowling because, you know, i support her desire to see what she likes , but the books are she likes, but the books are crap. so i don't know. this is what i meant to do. i haven't read the book so i can't possibly flip through them. and i'm jealous of in i'm i'm both jealous of her in common and that that's how common and sad that that's how she . but, know, the she writes. but, you know, the thing this is true. thing about her, this is true. if you go to edinburgh where she hangs and buys coffee and hangs out and buys coffee and stuff of coffee shops stuff a lot of coffee shops don't her to do business is don't want her to do business is actually shop that has don't want her to do business is a

street. i've been there and they told me, it's because of told me, oh, it's because of books what she said, it's books or what she said, it's because she doesn't tip. i'm like, well, that's a reason to cancel there. i don't cancel her right there. i don't believe a second. believe that for a second. i mean, is odd one, isn't mean, this is an odd one, isn't it? because, again, we have to we have to reiterate this because, you know, it seems so obvious, because many obvious, but because so many sort of major commentators get this wrong, let's just it. this wrong, let's just say it. flatow said flatow rolling has never said anything hateful anything transphobic or hateful against the trans community. that of fact. we that is a matter of fact. so we are now living in this weird, hysterical world where people have decided have just decided that the opposite on no opposite is true based on no evidence whatsoever. and they're going get upset going to get upset about a computer game. mean, this is computer game. i mean, this is this the definition hysteria. this is the definition hysteria. i word lightly. i don't use that word lightly. no, it a definition of no, it is a definition of hysteria. one of actors who hysteria. one of the actors who had involved with it came had been involved with it came out made public apology out and made a public apology for being the computer game. for being in the computer game. what's lead what's yes, one of the lead actors and made actors came out and made a pubuc actors came out and made a public apology for being in a computer the apparently computer game. the apparently was transphobic. yeah. i mean, isn't to said isn't there something to be said here, it kind of here, scott, because it kind of undermines you undermines when you start accusing those things accusing people of those things and actually and they haven't actually done them. of them. yeah, it sort of undermines the you know, undermines the smear. you know, if there are genuinely

transphobic people out there, right. reserve the right. you should reserve the word them, shouldn't you? word for them, shouldn't you? you just pretend that someone is it's the power it's it dilutes the power of the word. but angry that she word. but i'm angry that she hasn't anything negative hasn't said anything negative about i what you really about me. i what you really want? i want something i want? i want something that i want? i want something that i want the computer. want to be on the computer. i want to be on the computer. i want it. what me? what about my feelings and moods and stuff? or we just apparently can we can just apparently we can just she spent the just pretend that she spent the last attacking you. last three years attacking you. would know that would be great. i know that would yeah, that is. sell would work. yeah, that is. sell me out. yeah, i wouldn't have to play. want to be play. i didn't want you to be great. right, we're going to great. all right, we're going to move to question now. move on to another question now. this one is from emma. where is emma? hi hi should drag emma? hi there. hi should drag queens children's stories? emma? hi there. hi should drag queethis children's stories? emma? hi there. hi should drag queethis goes hildren's stories? emma? hi there. hi should drag queethis goeshildren':on,)ries? emma? hi there. hi should drag queethis goeshildren':on, doesn't and this goes on and on, doesn't it? because there's always stories they called stories about what they called drag is drag queens hour. so this is where drag queen goes into a library a school and now library or a school and now a gallery. this is the tate gallery. so this is the tate britain. they decided to britain. they they decided to create this i'll have a drag create this or i'll have a drag queen story event right and then protesters gathered outside they were very upset about it some of those protesters quite unpleasant . some of them unpleasant. some of them probably reasonable

probably have reasonable objections. but there's a lot mixed there that don't. and mixed up there that don't. and just a bit aggressive and unpleasant. so it created this big storm effectively. but it was interesting, frances, because there's group called because there's a group called arts , not propaganda, who arts, not propaganda, who petitioned and they said they raised the point with the tate saying this is not your role. you're not meant to just be propagandising in this way. and if you do host this event, you're going to get some unpleasant people well. unpleasant people as well. and they of saying they were sort of saying why even get involved. they were making reasonable point. making a very reasonable point. and that and they it turned out that prediction was right. yeah, they was 100% correct. i think this is a problem a lot of how is a problem with a lot of how could this mainstream could i put this mainstream galleries theatres a lot them galleries or theatres a lot them have politicised. yeah have become politicised. yeah and as a result of that, they're always going to put plays on that a particular type that reflect a particular type of view or entertainment on the reflects a particular type of view. and even when it doesn't they soon shoehorn they somehow soon shoehorn a particular theory in their life. for example, joan of arc is now nonbinary according to the globe

theatre. yes, exactly. is one of these types of institutions in fact a short wig from the i just find it i just want to make bonng find it i just want to make boring i think a great point when any sort of artistic or creative body takes on one ideological stance and they end up being i suppose, preachers rather than artists. and i don't see the point of that. yeah, but if you're a parent, you love that drag queen because it takes care of your kid for an hour. there that and then you go there is that and then you go look at that. turner's look at that. the turner's asleep through that on your own. yeah. maybe that's what it's about that i think the about that i think, i think the has at least tate has lost its way at least tate has lost its way at least tate has and they needed a bit of press brought the art. press so they brought the art. yeah.i press so they brought the art. yeah. i mean nicole is that look what, discussing what, what we're discussing relentlessly this network and relentlessly on this network and at mean at all at others and mean look at all the attention that drag queen themself received i've themself has received but i've watched that person watched that i know that person i've the act. she's just i've seen the act. she's just read stories. it's more than that. that's what i've never really drag because really understood. drag because i've drag shows i've been to so many drag shows and enjoyed them. drag and i really enjoyed them. drag is adult and that's the is an adult and that's the appeal of it to me and it's edgy , it's, it's not always so i,

you there's all sorts of you know, there's all sorts of drag you want to drag and why would you want to sanitise art form? but sanitise the art form? but i don't think this character is sanitised. and but i know what you mean. i know that these people concerned that their people are concerned that their children sexualised, children are being sexualised, but act, but they hadn't seen the act, they hadn't the story read. they hadn't seen the story read. they protesting they were protesting in something weren't something they weren't familiar with. has with. but the act itself has promoted this ideological worldview. that's worldview. right. and so that's that i think the books that can and i think the books that can and i think the books that are being are more that are being chosen are more like of indoctrination like kind of indoctrination rather stories . rather than stories. indoctrination. yeah indoctrination. well, sure. yeah she did you read off. they're reading excerpts of the bible. you know, they do that children all the time, right. in the last line about it, we say shouldn't have faith schools. i would like kids books. that's kids to just read books. that's great. we're bigoted. yeah, well, i'll just read the statement got this statement statement we got this statement from who from art, not propaganda who have objection and have raised the objection and they one google they said one google search would shown that this would have shown them that this is inflammatory is politically inflammatory terrain that people been terrain that people have been protesting these events for some terrain that people have been prote and] these events for some terrain that people have been prote and that se events for some terrain that people have been prote and that the vents for some terrain that people have been prote and that the eventfor some terrain that people have been prote and that the event was ome time and that the event was unlikely to serve their inclusive aims. women pointed out tate that they find drag out to tate that they find drag offensive and that a man in sequins performing as a sexy

lady suitable for kids . lady isn't suitable for kids. many others out that many others pointed out that this particular drag queen promotes gender, ideology to kids in his kids online and in his self—published break self—published books and break breaks . own safeguarding policy breaks. own safeguarding policy by swearing and posting sexual content . so there's all these content. so there's all these other issues that are coming up here. i think what's interesting is that if are genuinely is that if you are genuinely interested safeguarding, interested in safeguarding, which the tate which is something that the tate said they were creating said that they were creating event to have some event that is bound to have some pretty protesters event that is bound to have some prett up. protesters event that is bound to have some prettup. you protesters event that is bound to have some prettup. you knowprotesters event that is bound to have some prettup. you know that sters event that is bound to have some prettup. you know that doesn't turn up. you know that doesn't create a safe environment , kids create a safe environment, kids does it? so what's that you're you don't really about the kids you don't really about the kids you about causing a which you care about causing a which is what you were is in line with what you were saying publicity. yeah saying about publicity. yeah i think so. i also think it be think so. but i also think it be more innocent that. maybe more innocent than that. maybe they include they just want to include families the family event and families in the family event and try to get more people in to see art. maybe just that art. maybe it was just that maybe they thought people maybe maybe they thought people wouldn't protest. i mean, people say going to protest say they're going to protest events time. heard events all the time. i've heard many they're going to many people say they're going to protest your shows and say word. i know. and they look everyone shows you in the shows they call you in the studio, just studio, but people are just nice. where's batons? nice. yeah. where's the batons?

what's i think what's the torches? i think that's would anyway, that's what i would like anyway, moving question from moving on to a question from john where's john? hi, john and. where's john? hi, andrew is mcdonald's being tasteless well tasteless or clever? well i think mcdonald's has always been relatively tasteless, but in this case, they've taken it to a new level. so this is there are the advert there, crispy advertising, billboards , which advertising, billboards, which is up next to a local is put up next to a local crematorium. now, i think they thought this through . i don't thought this through. i don't like some people have said that this was meant to be some sort of joke you know, you've of a sick joke you know, you've got one sign which says crematorium way and a big crematorium this way and a big sign saying crispy. next next . i sign saying crispy. next next. i honestly don't think they even made the connection in that i honestly don't know if they honestly don't know and if they did funny look number one did it's funny look number one no one has ever been that funny. this is it. and number two, what is at that crematorium takes a hell of a lot better than the first every day . i mean, do first every day. i mean, do things go to concerts what i this is why i did this this cash neutral gig i think if they did do it deliberately, do you think that's kind of funny and i think

that's kind of funny and i think that the idea that people at a funeral don't have a sense of humour isn't my experience funerals at all? yeah, i think especially you're talking especially when you're talking a jar . my mum, especially when you're talking a jar. my mum, mean my jar. my mum, i mean my stepmother was scottish so we had her cremated and put her jar had her cremated and put herjar in a bar stool and we would, you know, i mean everything that was said about her on stage . funny, said about her on stage. funny, right? because that's how want to remember people. yeah. yeah. so it's, it's weird that people have been upset about this, but, you know, i'm upset about when they footage. just they show this footage. i just thought the thought about from the earthquake keep earthquake in turkey. they keep saying is closing on, saying the window is closing on, finding i'm finding people. i'm like, i think the window closed five days ago suddenly that's the problem. think people forget problem. i think people forget like sense like that. irony is a sense people people really appreciate country. they do but they i suppose they are particularly sensitive when it comes to death in particular. i've get i've had that a lot people do complain about when you're talking about jokes when you're talking about jokes when you're talking about something like that they feel it's sort of you can't feel like it's sort of you can't joke not to. but joke about it. it's not to. but people have always done i mean, at funeral i went to in at every funeral i went to in

the eighties, for all my friends who always, you know, who died, always, you know, jokes were thrown across the open ifish open casket. similarly, irish wakes get wakes you all like people get and they make jokes and often at the expense of the person who died. if saw the footage of died. if you saw the footage of graham chapman's john graham chapman's funeral john cleese eulogy cleese does an incredible eulogy where he's glad he's where he says he's glad he's burning hell and he's funny. burning in hell and he's funny. yeah really funny of course because that's how we cope. i think that's the thing that people forget is that a lot humour there is a safety humour is there is a safety valve because otherwise if we have humour we would literally go insane because of we're faced with and our own mortality . so with and our own mortality. so to be able to laugh at something like this is a way for to us be able to deal with absurdity . but able to deal with absurdity. but i come back to the point that i do come back to the point that i do come back to the point that i think mcdonald's are i don't think mcdonald's are that i know. think that clever. i know. i think i don't think i think they just and secret sauce is quite and the secret sauce is quite nice, actually. it is just very good. yeah, yeah, yeah. okay. there tastes better there we go. it tastes better than finger. are. so than a finger. there we are. so final question now from ryan. we've a question. ryan, we've a question. ryan. ryan, have a good evening is it discriminatory to audition only male ? male actors for male roles? right. is really tricky

right. so this is really tricky because the netherlands was because in the netherlands was a production of waiting for godot. the play , but the venue the beckett play, but the venue has cancelled the performances because the director is an irish guy decided to audition only men. now if you know the play waiting for godot, there are only men in the play. so that might be why he said male only. is that an inclusive issue? i think it is because you're assuming the agenda. i see. but then beckett himself . i think then beckett himself. i think beckett sued a theatre company dunng beckett sued a theatre company during his lifetime. yeah, we tried to do an all female. yeah, because transphobic . oh is because transphobic. oh is everything going be going through the things . seems like through the things. seems like it's quite a bit when they say you know we want gay actors to play gay you know we want gay actors to play gay roles etc. etc. isn't it possible that actors aren't being themselves when they perform? yeah forget that the paycheque because can paycheque is because they can act. it's weird though. they forget to the audience what they prefer, because they're prefer, right? because they're the paying it. yeah. the ones paying for it. yeah. and there's loads of shows failing on broadway year. a big article in times and the

article in the times and the guardian about it, about how these all these inclusive shows , with , these performances with inclusive, casts, the inclusive, diverse casts, the audience lost the audience has lost the translation. they're not understanding what watching. so just stop going. yeah but that has really affected the city's bonng has really affected the city's boring now. but it's also this idea of rewriting idea of sort of rewriting production and production in this way. and we've debate about we've had debate endlessly about james have james bond. should we have a female bond or. no, female james bond or. no, because the characters called james. yeah, when i saw it, it's like see anything goes like when you see anything goes in in london, in in the uk, like in london, in the end they do the west end and they do a british of and it's a musical set on a and there's a lot set on a boat and there's a lot of dancing. yes. and it just doesn't work because english people can't that they can't do that. think it's that. it's going to think it's going fit accent. so they going to fit the accent. so they do effort with the do a for effort with the accents, they need drop accents, but they need to drop stone they start high stone before they start high kicking okay. it's the kicking right. okay. it's the title. it's just became the titanic. saw i walked titanic. the show i saw i walked out into the first sarah some gasps audience . this is gasps in the audience. this is mild for scott. yeah. okay. so after the break anyway. i'm free space. i'm free speech nation. we're going to be talking about a ticketing eventbrite a ticketing site, eventbrite thatis

a ticketing site, eventbrite that is obstructing a book launch it opposes the launch because it opposes the author's and will we'll be author's views and will we'll be meeting with the co—editor of the volume that book launch at the volume that book launch at the centre of the row just a few moments do join us in a second .

welcome back free speech nation. so joining me now is , sarah so joining me now is, sarah fenimore, family barrister who is currently in a legal dispute with eventbrite. the ticketing who removed the listing for event a book launch that she had planned. this is her book which is called trans possessions personal journeys into gender criticism. and the website's said in an email they remove this event because it violates community guidelines and terms service on quote hateful or violent content . sarah joins me violent content. sarah joins me now . welcome, sarah . hello. so

now. welcome, sarah. hello. so according to the eventbrite, the content of the book you have co—edited is hateful, dangerous and violent. is that right? indeed. but what their definition of violence and hate includes is disparagement . when includes is disparagement. when my solicitor made a subject access request on my behalf, it was very interesting. i i sent some of it to you because they had gb news down as the voice of outrage. there was a lot there was a lot of chatter. the highest level of the company they released a of emails. they released a lot of emails. to me , and it quite clear to me, and it was quite clear they were saying, oh we can't really get her on hatred or, violence, can we? but we can get her on despite. so we'll do that disparagement that's disparagement. and that's not a criminal as far as criminal offence as far as aware. broad and so as aware. it's so broad and so as to be utterly meaningless. and that's action taking that's why the action i'm taking them just for unlawful them is not just for unlawful under the equality act, but for breach of contract , because breach of contract, because we're saying this should be dean we're saying this should be dealt under uk this term is dealt under uk law this term is so wide it's void for uncertain tea. so let's just take us back

to what happened. so you've co—edited this book. this is a book about various experiences of critical views that of gender critical views that that sort of idea, the launch arranged, it sells largely through eventbrite. i should imagine. and then they write to you, what do they do or did they just take it off the site? what happened? well, i launched the event. no one really cared. it sold about ten tickets. then i did a tweet the speakers, and one of them was linehan. one of them was graham linehan. that flurry of, that prompted a flurry of, people at eventbrite to people tweeting at eventbrite to really this. really to be involved with this. so warning on the 27th so without warning on the 27th of october, pulled it. of october, they just pulled it. they sent me an email saying you were in violation. us were in violation. do email us with queries i emailed and with any queries i emailed and emailed and was ignored. but luckily it picked up by the luckily it was picked up by the telegraph, mail i wrote for telegraph, the mail i wrote for the critic spiked . and one the critic and spiked. and one of the legal counsel from california reached out to me. and we had a zoom. so that was very because the reason that this lawyer gave to me for why eventbrite had pulled it was that they had a duty of care to people attending. and there was a real risk that violent men would turn up and hurt , you

would turn up and hurt, you know, so this was pr and good if that's a genuine reason it's really terrifying because it's saying to these violent hey guys being violent really works. now, i don't think that was genuine . i don't think that was genuine. think it was just an attempt to make me go away, which obviously didn't work. yes. because they obviously they oppose what the book explores ideologically, i suppose.i book explores ideologically, i suppose. i mean , the fact that suppose. i mean, the fact that they responded. you were saying that it sold out then after this, after happened. this, after this happened. i mean, great of them. mean, it was great of them. i mean, it was great of them. i mean, on an individual level, it was fantastic because the book launch pitched up at launch sold, we pitched up at the there was no the conway hall. there was no protest, i found really protest, which i found really disappointing. was reading, i disappointing. i was reading, i was so on an was ready to film it. so on an individual it fine. of individual level it was fine. of course, on a more on a wider course, on, on a more on a wider level, it's not fine at all because eventbrite could be any of the tech companies. yes, of the big tech companies. yes, all them have the same all of them have the same standards which prohibit violent, dangerous, blah, blah blah. but again, the data subject access request was so interest ing because they were talking about women's place uk because they also went and

pulled i think three events that that organised nation were involved in and they said quite well these organisers are a bit more buttoned up and fillmore , more buttoned up and fillmore, but they're events are essentially the same because . essentially the same because. they operate around deny nihilism and exclusion of trans people and i think that's such interesting message for those of your gender critical, it doesn't matter what we do, what we say , matter what we do, what we say, whether we're affiliated with the left , the right wing, we the left, the right wing, we will be tarred with the same brush as extremist bigots and a broader problem here, isn't there? is that insofar as what business is, is it of this company, whether they happen to agree with you not, why agree with you or not, why should that even be? this should that even be? well, this is saying. this is this is what i'm saying. this is this is what i'm saying. this is this is such a big thing. it's not just little book launch, just my little book launch, which great fun. 70 people which was great fun. 70 people turned all had a chat and turned up. we all had a chat and laugh. all our laugh. it's about all our democracy. don't want to democracy. i don't want to sound, but the equality act passed by parliament so democratic mandate, the democratic mandate, that's the law country . then law of this country. then brighton saying to me that brighton are saying to me that they're not bound by the laws of

they're not bound by the laws of the at all interest . they're the uk at all interest. they're still going to apply in detail to my solicitor's letter before action, which suggests to me they might not wholly they might not be wholly confident position . but confident in that position. but if right, we need to know if that's right, we need to know because these community standards from all the big tech , they're all the same . they're , they're all the same. they're going to be imposed on of the united kingdom in direct contravention to our domestic law and what what are we going to do? well, we got that same thing, didn't we, when paypal demonetised the free speech union and toby young's account and of that and they and they got of that and they said that they weren't beholden to the laws of the land because they were based in california. i think it's not it's not just a threat democracy. it's very, threat to democracy. it's very, very to individuals, because these companies these private american companies have effective monopolies there's equivalent to there's no real equivalent to twitter or facebook or linkedin or yourself from or if you find yourself from those services , you suffer real those services, you suffer real harm . so exclusion should only harm. so exclusion should only be for a legitimate reason, and it's not the reason given was completely discovered i treat the men and women who contribute

stories to my book. you can buy it from amazon bargai n £10. i it from amazon bargain £10. i thought was an important historical artefact . it was historical artefact. it was people saying, whoa , this was people saying, whoa, this was a bit weird. and this is when i realised were a bit weird. it's this the stories of ordinary men and women because. what we're living through is unprecedented we had satanic panic, but we had the satanic panic, but that really only didn't even touch the. this is all encompassing . every organisation encompassing. every organisation is by it. yes you're dealing with people who are not extremist . you know, you extremist. you know, you mentioned great men and write your father ted one of the most successful sitcoms ever produced. it's not like you've ianed produced. it's not like you've invited pol pot to give a talk or like that. so this or something like that. so this is an extreme . i mean, it is such an extreme. i mean, it is such an extreme. i mean, it is terrifying. looking on is terrifying. i'm looking on twitter the way in twitter on the way in and someone me again, there someone reminded me again, there was who published was a lobby group who published their wing extremism their fears right wing extremism and transphobia, basically accusing women like me of being guilty of genocide . right. yeah. guilty of genocide. right. yeah. and this kind of hysteria and insanity is promoted and empowered , amplified. and my empowered, amplified. and my

perfectly legitimate view that women don't have penises not gets labelled a terrorist. so can we clarify where the law stands on this for people? because some people won't know what the equality act does and what the equality act does and what it protects . well, it's what it protects. well, it's interesting because again, i get lots of on social media lots of people on social media going critical beliefs going gender critical beliefs are don't believe are protected. i don't believe so for starters case was so. but my for starters case was so. but my for starters case was so important back in june 20, 21 because prior to that she'd been told a belief that sex was real, an immutable matter akin to a. she was not. her belief did not pass the granger criteria . so pass the granger criteria. so she took that to the employment appeal tribunal and they agreed with her and they said, believe that sex is real and it matters is a protected belief under the equality act. so under section 29 you may not as a service provider deny a service to an individual on the basis of that, they hold a protected belief. well, that's really important. i mean, for one thing, people might baulk at this because they might baulk at this because they might think, well, the belief that there are men and women, that's just a matter of fact,

isn't but believing that isn't it? but believing that a side is now the case, from what you're since the first you're saying, since the first as if someone to as a case, if someone were to fire someone believing that fire someone for believing that there and women, are there are men and women, you are not protected by law. it is frustrating beyond belief that a biological fact has biological fact now has to be reframed philosophy for reframed as a philosophy for core belief. but i'm afraid that's what we're stuck with. but thankfully, the equality act does yeah, just does protect that. so yeah, just as someone can't say, we all get sacked, you're black, you're sacked, you're black, you're sacked, you're black, you're sacked, you think sacked, they can't say you think women penises sacked. sacked, they can't say you think worare penises sacked. sacked, they can't say you think worare protected. penises sacked. sacked, they can't say you think worare protected. okay ses sacked. sacked, they can't say you think worare protected. okay that's:ked. we are protected. okay that's good to know that that protection is in place. yeah but then this case test, i suppose whether or not this applies to corporations that based corporations that are based overseas terms of overseas and in terms of provision of goods and services and we really need to know because much our not because so much of our lives not depend on these american companies services they companies and the services they provide if they really can operate . making profit of uk operate. making a profit of uk citizens while ignoring uk law. we need to know because i think that has profound implications for our democracy. and if instance, eventbrite would have said , well, we don't want to

said, well, we don't want to hold an event by someone who's gay and we're going to put it because of that. would that legal? well, according to american law, they may have different. a problem is women who believe that sex is really it matters don't appear be it matters don't appear to be protected american at protected under american law at all. might be slightly all. so that might be slightly different american different. i'm not an american lawyer, so don't know. but we lawyer, so i don't know. but we go back to the funding and to a point operating point they're operating here making a profit here of a bound by laws or so if you by our laws or not. so if you pursue this case and it turns out because out eventbrite win because they're not bound to the law of this land in terms of their policy, what do we do after that? we to start that? well, we need to start talking. our politicians need to wake needs to wake up. there needs to be serious discussion the serious discussion at the highest this highest level. what is this saying the laws? are have saying about the laws? are have passed? they are they going passed? are they are they going to govern uk citizens or not? i think it's a massive question . think it's a massive question. and people at and finally, sarah, people at home is there any way that they can support you at all? yeah, i written a piece for substack, which i'm to on the way which i'm going to on the way home. if anyone has heard home. so if anyone has heard what got say and wants what i've got to say and wants to more, i'm to publish

to know more, i'm to publish lots of links, including obviously link to my crowdfunder because this because i can't do this without people's anyone people's help. so if anyone feels 0 £5 or £10, that feels move to £5 or £10, that would be wonderful they can would be wonderful and they can find on twitter. what's your find you on twitter. what's your twitter handle at animal? twitter handle at spf animal? fantastic thanks very much for joining you . and after joining me. thank you. and after the break, on face the nation , the break, on face the nation, as gold goes gender neutral , as gold goes gender neutral, should we start praying to them rather than him saying 3 minutes

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with the andrew doyle now that god could referred to in non gendered terms during church of england services , the first of england services, the first time breaking with centuries of tradition, bishops have announced they are launching a major project on gendered language this spring. it may suggest that priests can stop using the male pronouns, he and

him, when referring to god in some prayers, or even that they drop the famous phrase our father from the start of the lord's prayer . however, such a lord's prayer. however, such a radical rewriting would have had to be agreed by a whole of the by the church's governing body, the synod, and would be the general synod, and would be fiercely of by fiercely resisted, of course, by traditionalists for breaking away from the of the away from the words of the bible. so joining me now to discuss , have oborne , discuss, i have martyn oborne, chair women and the church chair of women and the church and ashenden, former and gavin ashenden, former chaplain queen elizabeth. the second, thanks for joining me chaplain queen elizabeth. the second, thanks forjoining me . second, thanks for joining me. gavin ashton and i'm going to come to you first. so what's so wrong with idea of perceiving or conceiving of god as as gender neutral . i conceiving of god as as gender neutral. i think part of the problem is that every time we change our language, we change the philosophy or the ideas, language and ideas are bound very closely together. i mean, for example, what for example, you said, what about calling so that about calling god them? so that takes into polytheism if takes us into polytheism if you're if you think there's more than one god, you have to use they the idea of using he or god's favourite chosen personal pronoun is suggests that it's

different from the worship of goddesses or many gods. and so if fulfils a particular descriptive function . martin descriptive function. martin o'beirne, can i ask about this? is it not the case that this feels very much like the church of england is sort of bringing in these very voguish concerns, these ideological , that really these ideological, that really are very ephemeral and probably we won't even be talking about in 30 or 40 years time, why are we doing this? well don't think it's about the church of england trying to be very woke or anything like that. i think it's important for first of all, it's very biblical to think of god as , a mother, as well as a father and. god is not a man. , a mother, as well as a father and. god is not a man . and and. god is not a man. and getting this idea that god is a rather clumsy , lazy idea that we rather clumsy, lazy idea that we believe somehow in god being a little old man sitting on a cloud up the sky, i think anything that helps us see that

god is beyond gender i think is very important. and in the bible, we we're told that god creates humankind in his image , creates humankind in his image, male and female , he creates them male and female, he creates them . the of father is very important. and no one is talking about getting rid of the metaphor of father in reference to god . and no one's actually to god. and no one's actually talking about changing the words of the lord's prayer. but i, as i understand it the project is about looking at maybe some additional ways. and when we might refer to as god as mother. there are lots in scripture talks about god birth to his people talks about god comforting his people like a mother , not a work thing . it's mother, not a work thing. it's a balance point . need a better balance point. need a better reflection of who god is. and also there is something about

how women and girls do struggle all with an image of god being presented to them. that seems male, male, male . and so having male, male, male. and so having a truer, a more inclusive of a representation of in ology, i think could be helpful. well, it's interesting can i come to you, gavin, passionate about that because the reporting this in the press has very much been making the case that the name our father would change that god would be referred to not with he or him pronouns. so is martin osborne right that in fact that's not the case here ? no, i that's not the case here? no, i don't think she is. i'm afraid because the american anglicans have doing this for about have been doing this for about 25 years. so we know what the trajectory looks like. as trajectory looks like. it's as you say a trajectory that you say it's a trajectory that accommodates the accommodates itself to the culture. unfortunately , culture. and unfortunately, nowadays , actually toxic nowadays, actually toxic masculinity has been imposed upon christianity as well. and so the notion of fatherhood has become quite repellent to some

people and the press already really changed colloquially. people about creator sustainer spirit to avoid the masculinity of the trinity. so that's already happening. and i think the difference is that traditionalist swan wants to work , want to use religion in a work, want to use religion in a way that works best. i mean, looking back 2000 years, looking back over 2000 years, what's good, been what's been good, what's been bad? use the bad? let's avoid bad and use the best. problem with this best. the problem with this particular movement you particular movement is, as you say work, say, it's trendy work, accommodating itself to a culture. a culture in real trouble in terms of the way it sex and identity and mental stability. so there's a very good reason for sticking with works rather than adopting the anarchy of our present circumstances . reverend open, circumstances. reverend open, can i put that to you in terms of idea of our father as a of this idea of our father as a metaphor, that was a word that you acknowledge that you used. you acknowledge that this metaphor. the people this is a metaphor. the people who god as our who are praying to god as our father understand that they are not that he's not literally saying that he's a in sense and that god is in that sense and that god is more than that . so really, more than that. so really, what's harm ? no harm , at what's the harm? no harm, at all. and there's absolutely no suggestion that the lord's prayer is going to be changed.

the only thing that's been announced is that there's a project to look at gendered language in relation to god, which might lead to some additional prayers being authorised alongside aid, existing prayers and absolutely no suggestion that anyone's going to start rewriting the lord's prayer, which would be in a pre—print because actually it's the words, as best we know that jesus gave to his disciple for that particular prayer . so for that particular prayer. so gavin ashton and if it is the case that the church is simply implementing new prayers to go alongside the traditional prayers, why would that be problem. oh well, i was an anglican for 40 years and sat on the general synod for 20. every, every one of these changes begins with the promise. we're just going to do a little bit of tinkering and we promise nothing much will change. b, if you much will change. and b, if you don't it, you can stay and don't like it, you can stay and every single time the promise

has been broken, there've been serious then people serious changes. and then people who were driven who didn't like it were driven out. so that mean, out. so that that i mean, there's no reason for thinking that's to happen that's not going to happen again. it's certainly the again. i mean it's certainly the case it that the church of case isn't it that the church of england currently passive. england is currently passive. but is but irrespective of what is being tonight, it is very being said tonight, it is very much perceived as being the woke side it's perceived as doing side and it's perceived as doing a gesture a lot of kind of gesture politics in that direction . and politics in that direction. and is the case, is it not the case, martin oborne, that the church should really be out these kind really be staying out these kind of cultural disputes disputes ? of cultural disputes disputes? please let me just say that already have a ukip aristocrat peerage authorised which refers to god gathering his people like a mother and also not just references god as mother in the bible, but theologians over the whole history of christian tradition have referred to as god as mother. i mean, mediaeval the theologians like julian of norwich in the 14th century

said, god is our mother as truly as he is our father. it's not wokeism. it's doing two important things. one, helping us to get from a very unhelpful that christians believe , that that christians believe, that god's a man sitting on a cloud to and very helpful to have language that is less excluding for women girls who when they come faith are being presented with a god who is male, male, male and so can i just ask is it is it sorry? can i just ask is it your contention then that if the woke movement did not exist , i mean, we're not having these discussions. the church would be implementing policies implementing these new policies anyway. i, he goes anyway. yeah. well i, he goes back right to the bible this understanding of god as mother, as as god, as father. as i say, the bible talks about god giving birth to his people . it talks birth to his people. it talks about him having a womb in some

parts. so you know, the language is there. i that you know, they're more references to father and god as a father. although having said that in genesis at one point god refers to himself as we he talks about having created humanity in our image . so you know that the image. so you know that the there's that as well. but i can i come to you, gavin ashton, about that is. are you persuaded off the back of what? martin o'brien said, that actually this is entirely divorced from the nofion is entirely divorced from the notion of wokeism that we would be having these conversations anyway? as a matter of course? well, it isn't i mean, martin's quite right in saying the issues of gender philosophically are really quite complex and she's some examples of where, of course, this feminine dimension, of course there is . but the way of course there is. but the way the church of england to do it is essentially driven by politics as if it was driven by theology and by practise and by

theology and by practise and by the church experience. it would be far more nuanced . and it was be far more nuanced. and it was the kind of thing we could have a conversation properly. but this is a political movement it's drive it's intended to drive out masculinity give preference masculinity to give a preference to femininity . i don't think a to femininity. i don't think a little old lady on a cloud is any that mama mcleod any than that load. mama mcleod one thing that we have to do is, is be a bit more sophisticated about use gender, and about the way we use gender, and we keep it out of we should keep it out of a political struggle and especially the locals. especially out of the locals. why is it that you think that the england seems the church of england seems be susceptible to the woke movement? would thought movement? you would have thought that a traditionalist body such as church of as the church, church of england, the one place england, would be the one place where wouldn't fact where these things wouldn't fact well, i became a catholic, partly in response to the way in which the of england was which the church of england was becoming incoherent in what it believed and the things believed. and one of the things catholics have found that the latin mass is becoming one of the most popular ways of approaching god and saying our prayers. what we're prayers. and i think what we're finding is that the sort of the slippery surface , our current slippery surface, our current culture alarming a lot of culture is alarming a lot of people. and what want is people. and what they want is handholds work. and so

handholds that work. and so that's one of the reasons. but but the church of england is essentially and essentially a liberal and experimental body and that can be a very thing in certain be a very good thing in certain circumstances. at circumstances. but just at the moment , it's actually bad moment, it's actually a bad thing won't serve them thing and it won't serve them very okay, final word , you very well. okay, final word, you martin o'brien. if you were. well, i'm old enough. remember when people started calling a female policeman , police female policeman, police officers and we started to use that language and or or we start to say chair rather than chairman. and at the time, quite lot of people were like, oh, you know, it doesn't really matter. women understand that. it includes them. language does matter and can be very matter and it can be very excluding. i'm glad that we expect women to think of themselves as policemen. we've changed language in this way. it's a more accurate reflection of god to show that god is beyond that. he's not an old man in the sky. neither is he an old woman sitting up in the sky. and if we can get away from that

language, i think that's helpful. and if we can be more missional and inclusive in our language. i think that's all for the good. well you both so much for offering your perspectives. thank you. thank you very much much . and after the break, i'm much. and after the break, i'm free speech nation. i'm going to be speaking to baroness claire fox on the controversial public order bill. see you in a few minutes. well.

the welcome back to free speech nafion the welcome back to free speech nation . so the government's nation. so the government's controversial public bill has faced a setback in the house of lords as amendments to give police powers to protest police powers to stop protest were defeated. ministers wanted to give the police the power to stop and search without suspicion near to a protest. they also to shut down demonstrations before . they demonstrations before. they become disruptive in a bid to stop tactics such as slow marching and blocking roads.

critics, however, called the plan to shut down protests before they escalate an attack on the right to protest. and on tuesday night, peers, the house of lords rejected it by 254 votes to 240. joining me now to discuss this further is director of the academy of ideas, baroness claire fox. thanks for joining me tonight. baroness claire fox. thanks for joining me tonight . could you joining me tonight. could you begin by telling us what is wrong with this . bill well wrong with this. bill well there's an awful lot wrong with it because although it's been motivated by the infuriating way that just the foil and various extinction rebellion type protests have disrupted the lives of ordinary people . when lives of ordinary people. when you actually look at what the bill says, they will it won't be aimed at them. it will be aimed at anyone ever who wants to protest and there's a lot of very draconian aspects to it. but, fred, the lords didn't stop and it just simply amended it to get rid of the worst aspects of some of the clauses that were in

the bill. and that's going back to the commons and they'll decide whether they accept what the suggest it or not. the lords suggest it or not. but, you know, you've just had a very interesting conversation and the it all about and at the end it was all about language matters and language does matter. here had a bill does matter. and here had a bill in which the premise is in which the whole premise is that state and the could use that the state and the could use phrase serious disruption to really take away every civil liberty of anyone , whether they liberty of anyone, whether they were protesting , i don't know , were protesting, i don't know, drag queen story hour or whether was against, you know , low was against, you know, low traffic neighbourhoods or just oil. and they didn't define what serious disruption was. they just refused to be funny. and there also said, what? you know what we mean. so we left up to the police to say what they thought was disruptive, was and they refused to pin it down. so that was very dangerous. well that's the problem, is that that's the real problem, is that we've this before the we've seen this before with the police and sentencing police crime and sentencing bill, where we had the were effectively saying protest effectively saying if a protest was noisy, the police could was too noisy, the police could arbitrarily decide that they would it down because that

would shut it down because that didn't through. there didn't get through. so now there are these to this are these amendments to this bill presently. so why can't the government the importance government see the importance of really mean really saying what they mean here ? well, one of the here? well, one of the difficulties is that and i think is more a reflection of a policing , because actually if policing, because actually if you look at the public order legislation we already have on the statute books , it is more the statute books, it is more than draconian might say, but certainly more than serious enough for the police to be able to actually arrest and stop the demonstrations that we have and i mean, after all just the let's just protesting because they said getting arrested. they obviously do the law at the moment that they could use. but there was something wrong with there was something wrong with the the seemed the fact that the police seemed to be rather reticent and hesitant to intervening. so hesitant to intervening. and so what the problem we've got with the political establishments at the political establishments at the moment is when they don't know to do instead of actually going out and either enforcing laws that we already have and then convincing institutions they've got to do their job, they've got to do their job, they bring in laws that which is

ludicrous. you think of the consequence of this. you talked about one of the amendments of last week was suspicionless stop and search and i use the in the speech that i gave of what it felt like during lockdown when ordinary law abiding citizens were stopped by the police, if they sat down and had a coffee on a bench. obviously, the example of care workers who've done just that and when they kind of said, oh, don't you know, not doing anything know, i'm not doing anything wrong, know, what's wrong wrong, you know, what's wrong with they being with you? then they were being threatened arrest and i was threatened with arrest and i was making the point that if you're stopped and searched when you're just literally walking in vicinity of where the demonstration might be to demonstration might be about to be held . when we actually asked be held. when we actually asked the minister why it the minister, why is it suspicion less stop and say where there's no suspicion ? he where there's no suspicion? he said, sometimes the police said, well, sometimes the police don't any suspicions and therefore should stop and search. mean, is all to a search. i mean, this is all to a power of sort that you would not expect to see a modern democracy. so although i'm on the one hand, you know, very

hesitant of using the laws to block the government, because, after all, we're not elected in the house of commons. is the elected. secondly , i do know elected. and secondly, i do know that there are times people get frustrated at the inability of the police to deal with things. i do want people to look carefully at what the government have been trying to affect in this way . i have been trying to affect in this way. i think that's one of the things that we kicked out. just one thing was funny was they were trying to bring in the serious disruption prevention orders? think gone orders? and i think that's gone ahead. they ahead. but one amendment they did was to raise the did pass was to raise the trigger the way it was trigger because the way it was was that you could literally drop your kids off to demonstrate you, then got violent and you as the driver, the parent would be smacked with a serious and disruptive and prevent, you know, that we could basically mean that you're criminalised for a year and as made clear the laws are already place to stop vandalism for instance the kind of thing that just stop violence. it's like britain we're up to. so the laws

are there already. what does it say, though about this government? because this government? because this government seems to very down government seems to be very down on the right to on the idea, the right to protest. same, they have protest. at the same, they have their safety bill and their online safety bill and even that phrase safety is suggestive of belief that suggestive of a belief that words be the same thing as words can be the same thing as violence. just the case violence. is it just the case that government not very that the government are not very good comes to free good when it comes to free expression? i. i expression? well, i. i absolutely agree with you on that. and i think that one of the ways that they get with it is that we've seen a struggle. i mean, you've written about it in books. you've written on free speech where. you're given this choice between , did you want to choice between, did you want to be or do you to be be safe or do you want to be free? and difficulty is, is free? and the difficulty is, is that they deploy this . we will that they deploy this. we will protect against potential protect you against potential horrible actions or incidents. and that's maybe in terms of protest, you know , they might protest, you know, they might disrupt you and so on and so forth . and by the way, if forth. and by the way, if they're sitting on the m25 i say they're sitting on the m25 i say the police should drag them off, take them away. right. so we're not talking about me just turning a blind eye to anything.

i'm saying that it's very dangerous when the government's immediate response is to call safety as opposed to freedom . safety as opposed to freedom. and we see in the online safety bill that they are absolute plea and getting carried away with themselves, a bill which should have been very discreet, the only targeted at protecting children . and that's what most children. and that's what most people are interested in. can we protect you? and because it is true that children are a category of people that we make access options in terms of liberty , but we don't give them liberty, but we don't give them freedom to roam around. we look after them and we have safe guarding the guarding measures. but the problem is they've let this spill into adult society and the onune spill into adult society and the online safety , which they say online safety, which they say they've of lawful or they've got rid of lawful or harmful app clauses. so it's not as right to free speech at all. actually, reading it is fine knowing what we were doing onune. knowing what we were doing online . i'm afraid we're going online. i'm afraid we're going have to go. we have run out of time, but i really appreciate you joining me. okay. we're going to see you a few going to see you in a few minutes. we've got to take a

break so you can

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news channel . channel there's news channel. channel there's plenty more still to come on free speech. this week, we'll cover last night's british and the ufo showdown in the us. and joining me in the studio, another council comedian and speech activist, toby young . speech activist, toby young. let's get a news update first from bethany elsey . good from bethany elsey. good evening. he's your top stories from the gb newsroom. the number of people who've been killed in the earthquakes that hit turkey and syria on monday has risen to 33,000. officials say the window for finding survivors is closing, but some pulled from the rubble alive , including the rubble alive, including a nine year old boy. he spent almost week under a collapsed building . an appeal by the uk's building. an appeal by the uk's emergency committee has raised more than emergency committee has raised more tha n £60 million in just

more than £60 million in just three days. the labour party is urging the bbc chair to reconsider his position after mp found he breached standards applying for the role. a cross—party committee says richard sharp, made errors of judgement when he failed to declare that he'd helped boris johnson to secure malone when he was prime minister shadow culture secretary alex powell is questioning whether he's able to uphold trust and independence in the broadcaster . his report uphold trust and independence in the broadcaster. his report . it the broadcaster. his report. it really is an unprecedented report means that mr. sharp's position is increasingly untenable and he really should now reflect on whether he's able to carry out that very important role as the bbc chair to uphold a public trust and independent of the bbc . warrington police of the bbc. warrington police have launched a murder investigation after a 60 year old girl was found stabbed to death in cheshire yesterday . death in cheshire yesterday. brianna gay was found by members

of the public with multiple stab wounds near linear park. emergency services arrived , but emergency services arrived, but she was pronounced dead at the scene . the force is looking to scene. the force is looking to speak with tpi described as a white man and, woman the chair of the commons defence select committee is urging rishi sunak to boost defence spending due to of a new cold war. tory mp tobias ellwood gb news. we need more money to replace military equipment and deal with aggression from russia and china. it comes after reports that some nato allies are concerned about the uk's military readiness and a high altitude object tracked over canada that officials say posed a threat to civilian aircraft that has been shot down over the yukon. it's the object to have been shot down over north america in the past week , which america in the past week, which at least one top us lawmaker says is another suspected chinese spy plane. canadian prime ministerjustin trudeau

prime minister justin trudeau says his forces will now recover and analyse the wreckage . you're and analyse the wreckage. you're up to date on tv , online and tv up to date on tv, online and tv plus radio. this is tv news. now, though, it's back to speech nafion now, though, it's back to speech nation . nation. welcome back to free speech nation. with me, andrew doyle. while another week another fellow comic cancelled. and this time it is samantha who was to perform her clown pray love show on friday at the leicester comedy festival . she wrote a comedy festival. she wrote a column for the comedy industry website chortle, in which she took aim at the cowardice of contemporary comics and an ideology aims to curtail ideology that aims to curtail freedom of expression and women's sex based rights. and the article sparked uproar among activists and comedians. they told the venue that that she was due to play it, that they were going to snub the location as they had apparently given platform to a bigot . as platform to a bigot. as a result, she had had her show

cancelled. samantha the cancelled. well, samantha the bigot joins me now. to the challenge . so i mean, they challenge. so i mean, they really went for you on this one. then, samantha, you wrote this article, you wanted to tell us what you were saying? basically, i basically bye bye comedy. i was basically bye bye comedy. well this boring. i'm out. well this is boring. i'm out. you're a bunch of snobs and steve bennett put a tweet out saying that samantha presti is leaving the comedy industry because comedians are not saying what she wants to say on trans issues , which is not what i said issues, which is not what i said . we should clarify that. steve bannonis . we should clarify that. steve bannon is the editor of this website. yeah, he's comedy website. yeah, he's the comedy critic that gave dave chappelle's grammy winning show to start . so now he's. so you're to start. so now he's. so you're saying you were misrepresented in terms of what you had to say 7 in terms of what you had to say ? yeah, i feel like he twisted my words i did write to him my words and i did write to him and say, hey, put my and say, hey, you put my original headline in, which was i'm leaving to find i'm leaving comedy to find a husband with balls . so what i'm leaving comedy to find a

husband with balls. so what is that about , the comedy industry? that about, the comedy industry? you know, you've performing you know, you've been performing stand—up long time and you stand—up for a long time and you say comedians say the article that comedians aren't really taking risks anymore? i suppose so. that being wimps is , i think, the being wimps is, i think, the word you just went there boring. i feel like anybody that's interesting has a voice immediately. immediately labelled as racist, transphobic or and they're pushed out. so this this last edinburgh fringe, which was the first fringe post—pandemic proper, jerry said, which got cancelled. and he's well respected , you know, he's well respected, you know, he's well respected, you know, he does this kind of subversive , quite hard hitting material. but it's art, you know, it's art. we're ups. we know that it's art. we know that that is not a literal on this date. it's art. but he got cancelled and pretty much no one probably you guys did , but pretty much no one guys did, but pretty much no one at the edinburgh fringe took a stand. i did, but i'm just a little comic. i've never aimed for popularity or tv. i'm just like, i want to make shows. i just need a little audience. i

want build a little fan base, want to build a little fan base, and can do what i like to and then i can do what i like to do. but they will want that. they want be on live at they will want to be on live at the apollo and they will zip their mouth to . to not get any. their mouth to. to not get any. any advice . attention, which is any advice. attention, which is exactly what a comedian is supposed to do. dave said that it's the comedians duty to speak reckless . and if we can't speak reckless. and if we can't speak recklessly , who can? so it's not recklessly, who can? so it's not just a freedom of expression , just a freedom of expression, the us, it's a it's a democracy . if i can't have an opinion that women should be able have same sex spaces as without them being labelled a terf. it's not just the artists being censored, it's that democracy is at risk. it's dangerous . i mean, i wonder it's dangerous. i mean, i wonder what annoyed them about your article. was it the fact that you were saying, well, they should stood up for jerry should have stood up forjerry satirists? of course they should. and failed to do so should. and they failed to do so out cowardice. probably out of cowardice. probably cowardice. that made cowardice. or is it that made the that women ought to the point that women ought to have own spaces from

have their own spaces away from men been men and that has been interpreted transphobia? interpreted as transphobia? i don't could have just don't know. it could have just also i said that weren't also been i said that weren't very sexy . that might be more very sexy. that might be more likely . i've been doing comedy likely. i've been doing comedy nine years and i've only ever slept . one comedian, just one. slept. one comedian, just one. i and he now wears a dress which is a massive turnoff and that's the point they made. so there's all sorts from which is annoying people but actually so what if you write an article annoying people. it's an annoying people part job sometimes. yeah part of our job sometimes. yeah yeah i go to yeah that's fine with i go to comedy, i saw people like bill hicks and carlin and i'm hicks and george carlin and i'm like, they're telling the like, whoa they're telling the truth. it's a platform truth. comedy it's a platform for truth . and i have truth for the truth. and i have truth tattooed on my wrist . it's one tattooed on my wrist. it's one of my highest values , along with of my highest values, along with freedom, which i guess goes hand in hand . but we don't to have in hand. but we don't to have comedians like , you know, you've comedians like, you know, you've got dave chappelle , but he's got dave chappelle, but he's being gaslit by the media. his show is not trans a bit. the

show is not trans a bit. the show that he did, it's beauty awful show about his trans woman friend and he was actually helping her with her comedy and helping her with her comedy and he says you can make fun of anyone if you see them as an equal. anyone if you see them as an equal . it's not about punching equal. it's not about punching up or down. you're punching straight. and i with that. straight. and i agree with that. but it seems nobody else does. it's interesting. so you had a show were saying in this show you were saying in this article goodbye to article you're saying goodbye to comedy. this final show comedy. you had this final show you going to at the you were going to at the leicester then leicester comedy festival. then some leicester comedy festival. then the venue well, we the venue and said, well, we went the venue. we can't went to the same venue. we can't have on a different night, have that on a different night, a different night, because i felt unsafe. your presence felt unsafe. your very presence tainted or something. tainted the venue or something. yeah, but what's worse , i mean, yeah, but what's worse, i mean, the complaint is just quite funny itself, but. but funny in of itself, but. but then capitulated. the venue said, okay, we're cancelling your your show got your show. your show got cancelled on a week cancelled. yeah, i was on a week after them, but apparently my views, my opinions, my personal opinions was so scary they couldn't be in the first the same venue. if i'm to arrive a whole week later . so yeah

same venue. if i'm to arrive a whole week later. so yeah , this whole week later. so yeah, this is absolutely fascinating because . okay. well i want to because. okay. well i want to bnngin because. okay. well i want to bring in my other panellist . bring in my other panellist. i've got two comedians here, very experienced now. scott scarborough, kind of come to you first. what do you make of samantha's case? what do you make a that pulls an make of a venue that pulls an event because of a couple of complaints in this way. yeah. no, great. i've well, no, it's not great. i've well, when i played the melbourne comedy festival in 2001 or two or something, i can't remember i was high, but when i did it, i had a tv appearance where i did my act as i'd been hired and it was so that my show was pulled off the board that the woman says. and provan, who manages the me in a radio the festival, told me in a radio appearance that should appearance that i should just leave country. wow the leave the country. wow the catholic church got on my show. i was fantastic. i said. and actually , i was right on before actually, i was right on before , jerry said it was to the same venue, which i considered an honoun venue, which i considered an honour. i'd look backstage and i'd see him sitting on his props about ready go and see just about ready to go and see just magic. fantastic. he magic. he's fantastic. and he got protest there too. and got some protest there too. and in daysit

got some protest there too. and in days it was seen as in those days it was seen as negative. but course now protest sells out. you surprised sells you out. are you surprised that jury saw mean, that the jury saw i mean, as samantha said, didn't samantha said, people didn't stick sort of. it's stick up for jerry sort of. it's when his show got pulled. well, you know, i think comedians, especially in the edinburgh fringe, wrapped fringe, they're so wrapped up in their somebody their own world, maybe somebody even there for two even he's only there for two nights. communities nights. maybe some communities thing, know, happening, thing, you know, it's happening, maybe. everybody knew we were all were all all talking about. we were all whispering it, just making sure that nobody could hear, of course, and course, and was cool. and i wasn't but i wrote stuff wasn't there, but i wrote stuff on. facebook fordjour. on. facebook and fordjour. i think he's a genius. but, you know, there's a people there's so at stake there. so much money at stake there. that's of problem. and that's part of the problem. and we're yourself earlier. we're you said yourself earlier. yeah, ten grand yeah, it costs ten grand before you get i think you even get there. i think these are thinking i just these people are thinking i just i i blow that i can't, i can't blow that money. i'm here. it's a trade fair now. it's still long arts festival. let's be honest. you're your perception of you're eight. your perception of what image festival is what that image of festival is probably different other probably different from other people's. to move people's. they're there to move forward, be tv forward, there to be tv presenters. they're not really interested in the comedy circuit at all, really. it's a step on a ladder to something. isn't that kind samantha the idea kind of sad? samantha the idea that just for

that people are in it just for the money and not the the money and not for the popularity. and arts popularity. yeah, and arts festival, the biggest arts festival in the world. people are compromising their integrity for of money. it's that for popular of money. it's that they want to be like which is a different i agree with you comedians when i started in the 1890 they didn't care about being liked. they just want to do their schtick. but now it feels as though some the younger people they want. can people they want. yeah can i bnngin people they want. yeah can i bring in frances foster at this point frances, do you have any thoughts about samantha's case in well, i in particular? well, i think this what happens, samantha, this is what happens, samantha, when honest when you are actually honest about think in about what you think in the comedy the comedy comedy industry, the comedy industry these orthodox industry is has these orthodox views. and if you straight out to the left or to the right , to the left or to the right, these orthodox views, you were to see yourself in real problems and what you did and what i couldn't you did is you would talk to the third rail, which is the debate, and literally went and. yeah, and then what happenedis and. yeah, and then what happened is the inevitable explosion because nobody can admit any more that willy's in vaginas exist . but isn't it

vaginas exist. but isn't it interesting that you chose to this article in chortle? but he's going into the lion's den because the comedy industry is very sort of has its orthodoxies now they very now and they very much perpetuate it website in perpetuate it by that website in particular. and so by publishing it knew that the it there, you knew that the backlash would be intense. i did. i did expect backlash and i was fine with that . you know, was fine with that. you know, when they were all calling me transphobic you just transphobic and, you know, just really . a lot of comedians really nasty. a lot of comedians that have never actually come to my shows telling me, you're my shows were telling me, you're not funny that . that's fine. not funny that. that's fine. i can handle that fair game because i you know, i called them self—censoring wimps that . them self—censoring wimps that. so they get to cancel my show . so they get to cancel my show. yeah, that's that's why i've invested thousands i've been to clown school in the pandemic. it cost me probably over ten grand. and my show is about going to theatre school as as a working class girl , the fourth most class girl, the fourth most depnved class girl, the fourth most deprived town in england finally getting my dream to go to theatre school. golly i went to. that's what my show is about and

then finally getting my dream and then they're like oh you can't sit with us like, oh, so this is the difference, isn't it mean what you're saying, scott, about what people perceive edinburgh fringe to be about and about there a trade about how it's there as a trade fair? you're right about fair? i think you're right about that. what it is at that. i mean that what it is at the moment, but intervene and the moment, but to intervene and to and to actually damage to prove and to actually damage someone else's career because you don't like their opinion, that beyond pale. that is surely beyond the pale. it's a of time it's only a matter of time really. it'll happen. other people, you. yeah. and people, not just you. yeah. and i think the comedy i also think that the comedy industry a bit more industry should be a bit more careful. trying careful. they're trying to promote is diversity. promote what, say, is diversity. they're promote, they're trying to promote, especially comedians on especially female comedians on stage. are, stage. and then here they are, some these people in some of these people in leicester telling you you can't go stage reason. go on stage contribute reason. and actually it's not just the industry, it is just the audience. they audience. sometimes they get they anxious when you they get a bit anxious when you bnng they get a bit anxious when you bring around trans bring stuff up around the trans issues. so that means i do 20 more minutes on it and i and i've had clubs say are you going to in this town you to here in this town are you going to with that bit going to close with that bit tomorrow the three tomorrow night during the three night oh yeah. night run? i'm like, oh yeah. and then i do five more minutes on the subject that makes the

club too. that's because club too. but that's because i've my head and i've been dropped on my head and i've been dropped on my head and i authority figures. i hate authority figures. yes you audience to be you do like the audience to be anxious. oh well, i wanted to get their money's worth if they're not nervous by the end of then what's the of the show, then what's the point of any of it's, it's point of any of this. it's, it's not seminar i point of any of this. it's, it's not seminari don't point of any of this. it's, it's not seminar i don't care not a seminar i don't care what they think a buffer they think there's a buffer we'll i want we'll never be friends. i want them themselves. what them to enjoy themselves. what do you think about this? can you do you think about this? can you do you think about this? can you do you have any recourse do it? do you have any recourse at show at this point to get your show back is that is that back on? or is that is that decision be made you challenge it any way? well leicester it in any way? well leicester comedy festival actually comedy festival haven't actually made public it's my promoter that's pulled me from the see funded the arts so they've funded by the arts so they've pulled me leicester haven't said anything i mean if it was me running a in leicester i'd running a venue in leicester i'd be like come and perform at my venue. but at this late stage with days go , i don't with five days to go, i don't think there'll be any spaces for me to perform in other venues. but it's fascinating that a venue can't just say, well look, this , this, this performer has this, this, this performer has a certain opinion . the audience certain opinion. the audience get to decide if, if offended, then don't buy it my isn't then don't buy it at my isn't even that and know that even about that and know that and they said that in the email

that they sent it to me they're like look we know that your show is that you is not about things that you were in the were writing about in the article, but still we don't want to be associated with you like it's something. to be associated with you like it's the something. to be associated with you like it's the might:hing. to be associated with you like it's the might:hingfeel well, the staff might not feel so they feel isn't that good so they feel it. isn't that good to worry about this. it's just. what do you think of that? like this idea of safety within comedy? it really have comedy? does it really have a place. no place place. no, it has no place to put. see, this is the put. you see, this is the problem with comedy at the moment because the industry moment is because the industry is collapsing in itself, because the money's no longer there, because the opportune it's no longer the there are people fighting out for fewer and fewer opportunities and as a result of that, the industry has become more cutthroat. so people will do whatever it takes in order to get to next level. but get to that next level. but that's scott saying that's what scott was saying about you know, about the money that you know, and please . no, no, and the need to please. no, no, but even because but it's even worse because before industry had before the comedy industry had money you could actually money in it, you could actually spend it on tv and build a career for yourself. now, career for yourself. even now, when you go on tv, there is no career to be had because nobody watches tv anymore because it's

been from the been hollowed out from the inside diversity agenda. inside by this diversity agenda. and this is the thing. this is the thing that nobody talks about diversity . people about with diversity. people talk , what the talk about diversity, what the comedy industry wants and what they for people of all they desire is for people of all genders, ages and races to be represented as long as they have the same opinion. yeah, and it's oklahoma phobic and it's right but that was that, was but but that was that, was interesting to me that this website need put an website felt the need to put an addendum your article to addendum onto your article to say to distance itself from to say to distance itself from to say yeah well we're only publishing freedom to publishing it for freedom to speak we don't agree her. speak we don't agree with her. what a weird thing to have to do. and said and do. yeah. and and i said and i said in the opinion piece that i wrote, evangelists wrote, that these evangelists identity politics, they don't actually for the marginalised groups they purport to defend and. an asian comedian reached out to me yesterday privately a lot of people have reached out privately because they will go after people's livelihoods and said that the same guy cancelled. you tried to cancel me. he called me a racist. i'm asian , so right.

me. he called me a racist. i'm asian , so right . they're both, i asian, so right. they're both, i think, coherent, obviously. yeah but were you surprised, frances 7 but were you surprised, frances ? the feather chortle put a an addendum to the article . i've addendum to the article. i've never seen them do that, but neven never seen them do that, but never. never before. no, no it doesn't surprise me because it's another way for him to virtue signalling for him to, make himself look good and also not ostracise his fellow parents. because the thing that nobody talks about in this is that the reason everyone's so quiet is they know that the moment they stray from the line, they're done and they're finished. but this have this is point when you have sort of , people within of comedy critics, people within the actually the industry saying actually going to we're going to make a statement distance from it statement distance from this. it does narrow the way which the does narrow the way in which the views we'll accepting. it's views that we'll accepting. it's a responsibility being the a big responsibility being the diverse the bill i know diverse comic on the bill i know how that feels and years there were no openly gay comics openly gay the circuit so i'd gay comics on the circuit so i'd the you know was the the one that you know was the reason the show was was tricky or or offbeat i was the offbeat guy and they'd close me in case i tanked, in case i did so that, you know, people at least got a

decent show. the first that happens when they send a happens when they send me a middle all they middle east all time, they do that. they close with me because they're afraid of what's to happen. it's like happen. the thing is, it's like i racist think i said, racist to think i'm diverse a white class diverse i'm a white middle class guy fact my guy from the and in fact my accent's similar to the accent's very similar to the other middle class other three white middle class guys i've been on before. abacus doesn't that's doesn't count, scott that's thing it's about like it's ridiculous identity not ridiculous. identity is not determined my skin determined is not from my skin colour or gender. you're right it's homophobic and racist and it's homophobic and racist and it's tricky for club to it's really tricky for a club to assume audience feels assume an audience feels the same. the future for same. so what's the future for the industry i mean if you're saying something you're saying something that you're you're to continue you're not going to continue because narrowness because of the narrowness of what opinion what is permitted in of opinion in what's to in particular, what's going to happen. going keep going happen. i was going keep going down this road or comedians going to stop being a little bit braver they say and braver about what they say and think. i feel want be think. i feel you want to be truly free as comic. you've just got to build own audience got to build your own audience and platforms and come and your own platforms and come common gb news well, well, not fantastic no. i think it's about the festival and next up on free speech nation , we're going to speech nation, we're going to get some more wonderful questions from . our beautiful

questions from. our beautiful audience here back in 3 minutes

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. let's get some more questions from our beautiful studio audience. our first question is from john weiss. john hello. good evening. hi. is elon musk, the right man for the job. we've been discussing this for a while now with. musk is right to have taken twitter. he has been preoccupied with worries about how many are seeing his tweets at the moment was an interesting twist the so last week twist in the tale. so last week he's the twitter ceo obviously. he took his twitter account private for day to test private for a day to test whether that might boost the size audience the size of his audience and the move prominent move after several prominent right accounts that musk right wing accounts that musk interacts complained recent interacts with complained recent changes twitter that have changes to twitter that have reduced their reach. is it just the case that maybe people aren't as interested in his tweets anymore? going on

tweets anymore? what's going on here? might here? yeah, i think that might be mean, i look, be a thing. i mean, i look, there things elon does. be a thing. i mean, i look, thith, things elon does. be a thing. i mean, i look, thith, buthings elon does. be a thing. i mean, i look, thith, but cans elon does. be a thing. i mean, i look, thith, but can we elon does. be a thing. i mean, i look, thith, but can we just lon does. be a thing. i mean, i look, thith, but can we just all does. i with, but can we just all admit musk know that funny admit musk you know that funny you know, quite sometimes you know, quite funny sometimes . oh come on with the let that sink walking in with the sink. come mate . it's not 1987. come on, mate. it's not 1987. get off. i admit wasn't the get off. i admit that wasn't the best of his joke. no, but nevertheless, it's interesting that he the fact that took that he the fact that he took over twitter, i think is over twitter, though, i think is generally thing. yes generally a good thing. yes i think twitter absolutely think twitter was absolutely tanking to be tanking and it needed to be re—energized way or re—energized in one way or another. accounts another. and also so accounts have banned no reason have been banned for no reason at mostly feminists. i have at all, mostly feminists. i have to say. and they're mostly back now. yeah, because he does have a freedom of speech which i a to freedom of speech which i think know, think is great. yeah you know, so been very well we notice so i've been very well we notice that trigonometry and with my own personal account is that we saw zero growth that shadow ban at the moment elon came in the growth has been than six times what it was before so for us it was a lot better that's a good but i mean twitter was in shadow banning had proof of that banning we had now proof of that they're effectively saying this group of 20 somethings in silicon if don't

silicon valley if they don't like put you like your opinions they put you on and nobody sees your on a list and nobody sees your tweets . that's a right? tweets. that's a problem, right? yeah. i just yeah. there's you know, i just think tired. his sort think people are tired. his sort of . they're wondering, of antics. they're wondering, you the next for you know, what the next for twitter assuming he's going twitter is, assuming he's going to well, he to leave. yeah, well, he probably well, as i thought of it, i he will. and it, i think he will. yeah. and he lack social skills he has a lack of social skills and seems to reflect on and that seems to reflect on twitter as well. also twitter as well. and i also think that are he does tend to gripe and moan and everyone thinks, well, you're the richest person in the world. why are you complaining so much? you get off twitter now, could said twitter now, but you could said the of the same about donald trump, of course, a lot of people course, about a lot of people that are yeah, but he has that are ceos. yeah, but he has a platform loud, a platform that's very loud, very yeah. so also, very aggressive. yeah. so also, he went on, he he did go on stage with dave chappelle in san jose comedy show to jose doing a comedy show to promote minutes. promote his for 20 minutes. a few the few months back. and the audience booed him. yeah, audience just booed him. yeah, but that was always going to happen. right, because didn't but that was always going to happyan right, because didn't but that was always going to happyan act.it, because didn't but that was always going to happyan act. he'scause didn't but that was always going to happyan act. he'scauseyou're dn't have an act. he's not. you're wrong about he doesn't wrong about that. he doesn't have that's have anything to say. that's funny not live all funny at all. not live at all nothing trump funny . nothing and trump is funny. trump listen the trump is hilarious. listen the reason most comedians hate trump is because he's more successful

and he's much than them. yeah, he the jokes than . he makes the jokes faster than. we well, we're we do. yeah. okay, well, we're going on to this going to move on to this question from joel. where is. joel, does it matter joel, hello. hi. does it matter the luke the fictional character luke skywalker gay? well, doesn't. skywalker gay? well, it doesn't. no mean i thought so. but this is actually a story, a true story that was reported this week that luke skywalker, of course, hero wars course, is the hero of star wars , listed lgbtq+ , is now listed lgbtq+ individuals on this authoritative star wars encyclopaedia, which is called . encyclopaedia, which is called. i looked into this, though, and it's not that luke skywalker is gays. one sort of guy wrote a in which he's gay, sort of tangential related to the end of. yeah i just feel bad for a little gay kids like myself. when i was seven, i had a poster of him on my wall and other have to take it down. their friends would be like, why is that poster up? right. but he would never was seriously gay. my mom made time. saw made me take time. i saw i supposed up a poster supposed to put up a poster raquel bikini. really raquel welch in a bikini. really it made my nights alone in my bedroom last so much longer.

luke skywalker isn't gonna he got with it . yeah, exactly. so got with it. yeah, exactly. so he hot. i mean for me it didn't matter if he was gay or straight, i just i thought he was cute. know. so, you know, star wars has got the gay characters, the robots. these two. gay. gay two. yeah, but they're gay. gay couples? yeah, exactly. mean, couples? yeah, exactly. i mean, all homosexual all two d2 is a homosexual robot. yes. yeah. there's no way . he's straight. i mean, c—3po is camp object is the book. is the camp object is the book. yeah, exactly . yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, exactly. yeah, yeah, yeah. so to top c—3po. so so r2—d2 to top c—3po. so baldwin , i like the little baldwin, i like the little monkey. he's a guy. yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. exactly. i'm going . he's self—cleaning. i'm going to do this conversation and move to do this conversation and move to this next question from sarah where's sarah? oh hi, sarah. hi. our write in branding, harry styles out of touch for saying people like me after his crummy wins. yeah, this is so he obviously a harry styles he was in some boyband at some point i think and he got slammed for his grammys acceptance speech pick. it was the album of the year award and he said this doesn't happen. very happen. people like me very often is so, so nice

often and this is so, so nice thank you very and people thank you very much. and people were because they were furious because they were saying, you're posh, saying, well, wait, you're posh, white, straight. it does white, male straight. it does happen to . are they right? well, happen to. are they right? well, i just like the fact that he said something so completely innocuous and people are still furious, really angry about it and this doesn't happen to people like me. oh, this is so, so thank to me, that's so nice. thank to me, that's a really lovely speech. yeah. when you think about all the other horrible quite humble horrible ones in quite humble and quite self—effacing still i know we doesn't i don't think he meant straight white males. no i think it presumes he meant people like me who are like so cheesy boy band stars. yeah, i guess they also from like a one person family. no idea. i mean, really. yeah. and so it just shows that people are ready to be offended about it. okay i mean, did he say anything upsetting ? i think he's reached upsetting? i think he's reached the it's all downhill from the apex. it's all downhill from here for him. really? yeah okay. yeah, had. are they yeah, they've had. are they giving award they want giving it an award now they want him up and get back him to shut up and get back in soon. you he's just soon. oh you think he's just tearing down someone face. yeah they that. i mean,

they love doing that. i mean, i don't i've never had that don't know. i've never had that kind i think, don't know. i've never had that kincknow i think, don't know. i've never had that kinc know there i think, don't know. i've never had that kincknow there havei think, don't know. i've never had that kinc know there have been

they didn't they they didn't didn't understand the whole trans spectrum. they didn't announce and pronouns when they came in to do a bit of raping, was to do a bit of raping, it was all problem . i think you all very problem. i think you just can't that . so just can't have that. so vikings, have to go . and i vikings, they have to go. and i think vikings have to yeah, think the vikings have to yeah, they have to go. i think that apparently hitler who was apparently hitler who was apparently a. yes adopted some viking symbolism . and so we've viking symbolism. and so we've it's that connected the to it that's the vikings fault. no they've been gone for a while and i think the people wanted to attack the statue itself. have you seen as quite ugly the statues modern. so you think this is aesthetic? i think so. i think locals were like, we'd like to take this down and put some so it's just some flowers. so it's just an excuse really towards. the problem is flowers be problem is flowers can be fascist, you they can they problem is flowers can be fasc suggested they can they problem is flowers can be fasc suggested that hey can they problem is flowers can be fasc suggested that they've they problem is flowers can be fasc suggested that they've goty can suggested that they've got one got one opinion, they've got one. but all you yeah. but that's all you get. yeah. no, enough. i just no, that's fair enough. i just think you're trying to think when you're trying to cancel vikings, i you cancel vikings, i mean you so you've the shark at that you've the shark surely at that point. it jumped the point. i think it jumped the shark while. i so. shark a while. yeah, i think so. i thank god for the i mean, thank god for the vikings irish. yeah,

vikings you're irish. yeah, right . the vikings to do right. the vikings got to do with because with ireland because the irish people because people look better because vikings when they're pillaged and, raped and, you know, made everyone their lovely seed. well, that is okay well, god, before that is okay dwellings and people is unibrow straight guy you mentioned engush straight guy you mentioned english people without bone structure seriously i mean just a on misshapen potato nightmare the romans here for a while yeah putting an end to this right now teaching into xenophobia so just leaning in very enthusiastically i should say anyway coming up on a free speech nation a fairy tale cinderella and sleeping beauty have been given a woke overhaul. am going to find out why in just a few minutes.

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation . with me, andrew doyle. nation. with me, andrew doyle. a new story up is retelling some of the classic tales such as

cinderella and beauty, as they are deemed inappropriate for this generation . the app tale is this generation. the app tale is set up by eastenders actress kara tointon and it regales the famous cinderella tale. she turns down the prince's proposal because hardly know each other and. sleeping beauty is not a woken by a kiss and when asked by the prince what her wishes are, she replies, give me a minute . only just woke up . minute. only just woke up. joining me is the founder and director , the free speech union, director, the free speech union, toby young , to be i mean, no not toby young, to be i mean, no not really a free speech issue, is it? but talk about it anyway. i mean, it's bizarre isn't it, to try and sanitise these fairy tales because a lot of them were quite tales because a lot of them were quhe and tales because a lot of them were quite and dark. that's quite grim and dark. and that's what kids about. yeah, i what kids liked about. yeah, i mean, they are quite in mean, they they are quite in some cases quite traumatising, you know, quite scary . and that you know, quite scary. and that is part of the point that in order to achieve their effect have be quite triggering you have to be quite triggering you . yeah. to and make them . yeah. so to try and make them more to and render more anodyne, to try and render them seems a little bit them safe seems a little bit tone and to betray a lack

understanding of what fairy tales mean and what their cultural significance has been over the past. i mean, some of them date back thousands of years were kind of written down, you know, sometimes in the 18th, sometimes in the 19th century. but date back far beyond that. you know, before we had books even so, the idea somehow this distilled wisdom that's been passed down from generation to in the form of fairytales can be improved upon by someone who's engaging in a bit of kind of woke censorship seems to be a little bit arrogant. i don't think the will thank them for it. i mean, even even reading recent writers such as roald dahl recent writers such as roald dahl, dark , very sort of dahl, very dark, very sort of grim emphasis. dahl, very dark, very sort of grim emphasis . within those grim emphasis. within those stories, witches a very stories, the witches is a very good example, you know, very scary stuff. that's what scary stuff. and that's what kids want. so if you kids sort of want. so if you sort sanitise in this way, sort of sanitise it in this way, i what's the i mean, really, what's the what's is what's the point? where is coming from? i guess it's probably from a well—intentioned place the idea that somehow fairy tales contain sexual

gender stereotypes that helps perpetuate gender inequality and pmp up perpetuate gender inequality and prop up patriarchy. so if we want to do something about those, persist injustices, we need to fairy tales. i mean, i think it's of it's the same the same kind underlying motive for. attaching trigger warnings to james joyce's ulysses. i think that was the latest one this week. yeah. shakespeare's a midsummer night's dream the idea that language and the way we use language, the words we use is responsible for the nature of our society, for things like patriarchy , for things like patriarchy, for things like relations between the sexes , for relations between the sexes, for long standing stereotypes . if long standing stereotypes. if you just with a few words , a few you just with a few words, a few things, and suddenly you're going to transform the world as it is. but politically, that's very as well as in it, because obviously this is one of those frivolous stories , people frivolous stories, people complaining tales complaining about fairy tales being it sounds being rewritten. it sounds silly. you know, it like silly. you know, it sounds like of pc mad stories of those old pc gone mad stories from mail in the from the daily mail in the eighties. there eighties. but actually, there is a to which a broader point to this, which is people, culturally

is that a of people, culturally speaking have bought into speaking now, have bought into the idea that popular culture basically masses how basically tells the masses how to know, if you have to behave. you know, if you have a that has a gendered a story that has a gendered stereotype, all a stereotype, then all of a sudden, boys , girls will start sudden, boys, girls will start enacting stereotypes . i enacting those stereotypes. i don't been borne don't think that's been borne out studies into this now out by the studies into this now and i mean, i think the far more influential are parents the way parents up children, the values parents up children, the values parents to children, you know what they encounter in the home and beyond the home in school than amongst their peers those the kinds of things which form behaviour affect people's values as you know. yeah. affect the way they turn out the idea that changing couple of words in a book they're writing most probably read fairy probably don't even read fairy tales. even, even on an tales. no it's even, even on an app. it does seem a little app. so it does seem a little bit kind of ambitious, a little bit kind of ambitious, a little bit think you're bit optimistic to think you're going to change the world and somehow the somehow redress of the patriarchy changing a few patriarchy by changing a few words a fairy tale. there's words in a fairy tale. there's also a problem that i have with this whole thing, with this rewrite existing stories, rewrite of existing stories, which what which i is quite akin to what sensitivity the sensitivity readers doing the publishing , where they

publishing industry, where they tweak don't tweak things because they don't want but want things to be offensive. but isn't of art and the isn't an element of art and the creative industries more generally they can depict generally that they can depict offensive scenarios that offensive scenarios and that kind thing. i mean i have a friend who's a novelist who's who's self—publish now who's had to self—publish now because the sensitivity readers kept trying clean up his kept trying to clean up his villains because he's villains who serial killer is by the way said you know homophobic said some you know homophobic things well serial things or something. well serial killers nice. well killers aren't very nice. well the odd thing this , i the odd thing about this, i completely agree. of course, there have to be some disturbing triggering things, even in stories, if they're going to achieve effect. i mean, people complained about harry, harry potter books, then have trigger warnings attached. but unless children are actually frightened , albeit in a kind of controlled environment in the safety of their own homes, unless they make an imaginative leap and actually experience fear, they don't then learn how to overcome fears by imagining themselves . fears by imagining themselves. as the characters in the books confirm hunting, villainy and evil mean they don't achieve their effect as classic works of children's literature unless

children's literature unless children are quite engaged , children are quite engaged, disturbed and frightened. yeah now let's talk a bit about your free speech union, of course, is going great guns at the moment is needed. clearly because is much needed. clearly because things keep happening and people keep being counselled. i've been to talking tonight to talking people tonight who who affected what the who that's affected what is the free focusing at free speech union focusing at the moment. so at the moment we're trying to persuade the government to pause, press pause on a private member's bill the government is supporting, called the worker protection bill. and what this will do, it's gone almost completely under the radar is it will extend liable for harassment from the employers are only liable if an employee harasses another employee harasses another employee . so if an employee employee. so if an employee overhears a conversation between two other employees that they find upsetting in virtue of one of that protected character listings because they're a woman or , because they're gay or or, because they're gay or because they're black, they can then their employer for not then sue their employer for not doing enough to protect from

overhearing that kind of upsetting conversation. now, that's absurd enough. but under this new worker protection bill, that liability will be extended third parties. what that means is that if employees overhear an upsetting conversation between customers at a restaurant or in a bar or in a pub, they can they can then sue their employers for failing to do enough to protect them from that kind of harassment. what this means in practise is that publicans will have to employ, you know, bouncer banters to police conversations , pubs, conversations, pubs, restaurateurs will have to make sure that that customers in the restaurant don't say that a member of the white staff might overhear which they might find upsetting. this is obviously on not least because when you overhear conversation you don't have the context of that conversation also that it's conversation and also that it's open to exploitation. anyone can say, that say, i heard something that i perceived to be homophobic, therefore to sue you therefore i'm going to sue you and of money of it. and get lots of money of it. well, in well, that happens in the workplace i the workplace all the i mean, the reason is have become reason workplace is have become quite difficult to be quite

unpleasant places in many cases is because employers are now so obsessed with limiting their liability. but for being sued by employees if they feel harassed or discriminated against this is why there's an ever increasing list of words and phrases that employers don't want their staff to use. it's why they send them on unconscious bias training courses. it's poisoned the atmosphere in a lot of workplaces and it's now going to poison the atmosphere beyond the workplace into leisure spaces, football stadiums . i workplace into leisure spaces, football stadiums. i mean, you know, if this if this, if this new bill becomes law and it's sailed. the house of commons last , the support of the last week, the support of the government, i mean, it doesn't have before have further to go before it becomes becomes law, becomes law. if it becomes law, if a football stadium if someone in a football stadium says linesman , are you says to a linesman, are you blind? a pass sighted blind? and a pass sighted steward, overhear a fan. say that to the linesman . the that to the linesman. the partially sighted steward could then sue the football club for not doing more to protect from that kind of upsetting remark , that kind of upsetting remark, which virtue of which is upsetting in virtue of his protected disability. so it's so obviously self—evidently

absurd. why would it fly ? why is absurd. why would it fly? why is the government not aware? is it just they don't understand the implications so the implications of this? so the rationale i think the reason for it is because think if you remember presidents club remember the presidents club dinner about five years ago in which a couple of journalists went to as went undercover to work as waitress as hostesses this waitress as hostesses at this big charity fundraiser in central london at the dorchester hotel. and they discovered that a of the men in attendance a lot of the men in attendance were the way the were harassing the way the waitresses and but there was nothing waitresses could do. they couldn't sue the president's club because the equality act, you can only sue your employer if your harassed by another employee , not by by another employee, not by a member of the public. so the idea was to extend liability sexual harassment to from members of the public to set to protect public facing women places like casinos. so again this good intentions so well intentioned and they did consult about extending liability for sexual harassment to third parties in this way but having having that having consulted

about that they've now decided without consulting to go way further and extend third party liability for any form of harassment, not just sex or sexual . i think could sexual. i think we could probably you know, everyone would well, that's enough. would. well, that's fair enough. if the public if a member of, the public harasses a member your staff, harasses a member of your staff, you be something you should be doing something of take it beyond take them. but if it goes beyond that things like that and includes things like overhead, that they overhead, overhead that they might upsetting or might find upsetting or offensive, that's way beyond that. that's going to completely poison the atmosphere in pubs restaurants, bars up and down the country . well, toby, just the country. well, toby, just quickly , you go, where can quickly, you go, where can people find more information on the they can the free speech union? they can go website, w wwe go to our website, which w wwe free speech union .org or on twitter they can at speech union. great. toby, thank you very much indeed. i appreciate . very much indeed. i appreciate. next up on free speech nation . next up on free speech nation. america shoots down not one, not two, but three. ufos and who better to discuss the seriousness this than my comedian panellists back in a couple of minutes .

welcome back to free speech with me, andrew doyle . every week we me, andrew doyle. every week we dedicate this of the show to the world of social media. so first up, it appears that the us has shot down a third unidentified object this . is anyone else object this. is anyone else scared? and this is the latest one over canada. take a listen to this from cnn . interesting. to this from cnn. interesting. this is kind of unusual that these pilots saw different things . and that is sort of i things. and that is sort of i guess, adding to mystery of all this. yeah. not even the pilots were really able to identify what they saw . just to take you what they saw. just to take you back sec on. thursday, the back for a sec on. thursday, the us. back for a sec on. thursday, the us defence officials sent , u.s. defence officials sent, f—35 fighter jets up to try to figure out what this object was. that was flying around near alaska. those we have learned have given very accounts of what they actually xperi with some pilots saying that the object

interfered with the plane sensors. other pilots saying they didn't really experience that. they didn't really experience that . other pilots saying that that. other pilots saying that when looked at the object, when they looked at the object, they could identify. no, identify identifiable identify of identifiable propulsion and they did not know how was actually staying in how it was actually staying in the air, cruising at that altitude of about 40,000 feet. so this is all added to the pentagon's wariness of describing more detail what this object actually is . until they object actually is. until they can get more information through the debris that are recovering right now . okay. so, francis, right now. okay. so, francis, are being invaded by aliens? probably yes. okay. but here's the thing. what hasn't gone wrong in the last couple of years . wrong in the last couple of years. right. you wrong in the last couple of years . right. you know wrong in the last couple of years. right. you know , wrong in the last couple of years . right. you know , look at years. right. you know, look at the bingo card. aliens is the next one, i guess. would you be if it was. it is coming together. i want to shoot down more stuff. i'm terrified. what's going on up there? well, i know. shoot. keep going. keep firing. i mean, that interview is because. they're is a bit scary because. they're talking of the talking about how none of the pilots seeing different pilots were seeing different things, sounds like some things, which sounds like some kind alien technology that kind of alien technology that with drone.

with the moon shot on a drone. right are they all high? yeah, it's obviously it's a drone, obviously this is unmanned. a car. unmanned. the size of a car. there's a large drone that they solved it's the solved eventually. it's just the chinese. you know, i don't chinese. but you know, i don't see the point worrying. recent stuff over their airways all the time. it's mutual and in fact this whole espionage mystery we're up against right now, it's just being played by the government, is to government, is trying to distract really distract from what's really going well, going on out there. well, i hope. auens going on out there. well, i hope. aliens and not the hope. it is aliens and not the chinese. well you like aliens. i just be nice, right? and gamma rays out show. rays have that out there show. are we anything? think rays have that out there show. are w done. anything? think rays have that out there show. are w done. allything? think rays have that out there show. are w done. all right, ? think rays have that out there show. are w done. all right, let's|ink we're done. all right, let's move on to other creatures anyway. next, we're on to anyway. next, we're going on to last night's awards, which last night's brit awards, which is, male is, of course, the male dominated brit awards. thank god . yeah, well, after it was my gendenit . yeah, well, after it was my gender, it became male dominated . anyway, let's have a listen to singer tom grennan adds a question fellow pop star question to fellow pop star ellie her breast ellie goulding about her breast plate outfit. what . i thought plate outfit. what. i thought i look good next to ellie

goulding. i you're doing your real boobs. these are not these. oh, sorry. i wish so mine are a lot farther apart . oh, okay. oh, lot farther apart. oh, okay. oh, i wish . hello, everybody. i wish. hello, everybody. everybody. here we are. we're here to present beth. i mean, that that's sort of at the level of human. when some folks hosted the with the guy from fleetwood mac. yeah it was just cringe worthy. the whole. that's i mean thatis worthy. the whole. that's i mean that is really bad. that is somebody drunk a student nightclub trying to chop go failing miserably. except in this case, he did it to an audience of, about 20,000 this case, he did it to an people. and people watching at home. yeah, that's bad . that is home. yeah, that's bad. that is terrible. yeah i don't think. did they rehearse that? do you think. no. no, they rehearsed that. well, i don't know. no they're not good performance. yeah, well , just reminds how yeah, well, just reminds me how difficult is . it's not as difficult comedy is. it's not as easy as it is it? i think easy as it is it? but i think also . i think that she was taken also. i think that she was taken aback a bit. she tried to play along, which was nice of her. no, she was trying to save the

situation. yeah but situation. right. yeah but i mean, but also, of course, last night , well, mean, but also, of course, last night, well, sam mean, but also, of course, last night , well, sam smith turned up night, well, sam smith turned up in outfit, and this in his new outfit, and this caused stir because caused a bit of a stir because lots of people are tweeting about . there it's lots of people are tweeting aikind . there it's lots of people are tweeting aikind inflate . there it's lots of people are tweeting aikind inflate it . there it's lots of people are tweeting aikind inflate it how 1ere it's lots of people are tweeting aikind inflate it how would it's lots of people are tweeting aikind inflate it how would you a kind inflate it how would you describe it a black inflated leather gear. it's an inflatable. so either that it's a suit designed for the most incontinent of men. yeah. yeah. i think he's got a ryanair flight. he's trying to sneak on luggage. yeah. the thing is, bowie did , that outfit about 40 bowie did, that outfit about 40 years ago. that's right. it's very similar to a very nice size is thing i thought. is the first thing i thought. this looks a cheaper this one looks a bit cheaper than baby. little than the baby. yeah, a little bit. must be worrying, bit. yeah, he must be worrying, because anyone puts it, get because if anyone puts it, get a cigarette near that. that is going is going, going. yeah, it is. why are upset is. i see why people are upset about mean, it's just it's about it. i mean, it's just it's huge trying to replace. huge stars trying to replace. yeah, turned up in yeah, but lady gaga turned up in that a you that outfit. made a meat you know? i that. yeah. so, you know? i like that. yeah. so, you know, he's just know, i also i think he's just trying game press, which is trying to game press, which is what getting right now. what he's getting right now. right. well for him. okay. right. well good for him. okay. so going move right. well good for him. okay. so now. going move right. well good for him. okay. so now. we've going move right. well good for him. okay. so now. we've gotioing move right. well good for him. okay. so now. we've gotioingfinal ove on now. we've got this final sexual sensation . it's an early

sexual sensation. it's an early adopter of msc chef's now viral . big red boots has left people hysterics after discovering that, they are almost impossible to off and i now we're just watching this here someone attempting it with what looks like help someone else to take off the boot. what do you think this francis? i mean, the idea of having an accessory that cannot be removed . i mean, this cannot be removed. i mean, this is a signed western civilisation is a signed western civilisation is reaching end point, isn't it. what about that? this went viral. yeah no, we see the find that people want to buy this and of winning to spend 350 quid on whatever is on a plastic boot that you would see on a super mario game. yeah, it's very sad . listen, we do have to finish, but i think we just have time to go through one of your unfilled dilemmas from home. and this one has in from amanda in has come in from amanda in birmingham. and amanda has said, i've job at the same so i've quit my job at the same so many colleagues have many times, colleagues have nicknamed me boomerang . now i've nicknamed me boomerang. now i've been offered yet another job

back at the same place, but i'm yet accept as to an i could yet to accept as to an i could really with the money i'm now really do with the money i'm now on benefits should i swallow my pride and take it or retain the minuscule amount of dignity i have left? thoughts scott she hasn't applied anywhere else. she only applies to one company, apparently right ? she only applies to one company, apparently right? mean, she only applies to one company, apparently right ? mean, that's apparently right? i mean, that's clearly here . clearly what's going on here. she's do have some dignity she's you do have some dignity and to pay for that is. she's you do have some dignity and to pay for that is . too late and to pay for that is. too late for that. i just take the job myself. i think it's just very rich guy. don't babies do that all the time . marry someone. all the time. marry someone. marry well. yeah exactly. that's what that's what should do. what that's what they should do. absolutely anyway, look, that's all got time for tonight. all we've got time for tonight. thanks us thanks very much for joining us for speech nation was for free speech nation this was the a wars came the week when a star wars came out as gay god became a very them sam smith's or a balloon morph suit. thank you . my panel, morph suit. thank you. my panel, francis foster and scott cooper and of course, to all of my guests . well, and please, if you guests. well, and please, if you do want to join us live in the studio and just apply that website is online there at the bottom. see you next week. how about good evening. my name's

rachel as and welcome to our latest weather updates on the met office. it's been quite a day today and that's not going change too much as we head overnight though remain overnight though it will remain dry most and all this dry for most and all this settled weather is due to this high pressure that we've had across uk for some time now. across the uk for some time now. but as we head towards about midweek, we might just start to see from the see fronts creeping in from the west . but back to tonight and west. but back to tonight and it's a picture once it's a cloudy picture once again. we might see a few clear spells across northern and west and areas through tonight . and and areas through tonight. and here we could see some patchy mist fog forming remaining dry, though, as i say, on quite mild too, with only a patchy frost in some rural areas in the north and east. so quite a mild and cloud start to the new working week though as we go through the morning that mist and fog will lift and break as well. the cloud making for much brighter afternoons and plenty of sunny spells across the uk for second half of monday.

spells across the uk for second half of monday . temperatures half of monday. temperatures will be around or just average will be around orjust average for the time of year , with highs for the time of year, with highs of around 10 to 12 in the south. now looking ahead to monday evening and there'll be plenty of clear spells through monday evening and this could lead to some mist and fog forming particularly across anglia and southeast england now looking for the west and outbreaks of rain will start to move in from the west as head into the start of tuesday. so a milder night here but cooler in the east under clear skies and it's here. we could once again see a patchy rural frost . so a cool start in rural frost. so a cool start in the east on tuesday , but with the east on tuesday, but with plenty of sunny spells cloud making its way in from the west, just bringing some outbreaks , just bringing some outbreaks, light rain and drizzle across northern and western areas to start tuesday and the weather isn't set to change too much throughout rest of next week, although we might see some rain around and temperatures around midweek and temperatures remain at just above average remain at orjust above average average .

welcome to gloria meets three senior conservative mvp's in this evening's show. first up, a man with a strong christian faith. it's danny kruger. do you feel confident that in our lifetimes , medically assisted lifetimes, medically assisted dying will still not be legal in this country? no, i'm not confident. i've got a great fear that it's going to happen and that it's going to happen and that we will regret it. and it'll be too late to undo it. the government minister who was spiked on night out. it's mims spiked on a night out. it's mims davies. i found a black tablet in the bottom of a glass . i've in the bottom of a glass. i've been standing a dark part of a ball where the music is sort of to talking somebody, holding it, dnnks to talking somebody, holding it, drinks edges of the drinks on the edges of the chatting . and he's the chair of chatting. and he's the chair of the education select committee. robyn walker liz truss has made