channel good evening. i'm tatiana's sanchez in the gb newsroom lancashire police are working to identify a body that was recovered from the river wyre. it was located in the area where mother of two nicola bulley disappeared more than three weeks ago. they're currently treating the death as unexplained and say her family has been informed of the latest development. the home secretary suella braverman has described the news as heartbreaking and distressing. former detective chief inspector mike neville says the post—mortem examination and might not give us information about what happened.

there'll be a formal identification of the body. obviously if his neck has been in the river along with you nearly three weeks of our best voluntary weeks. but what the what whether the post—mortem can ever tell us whether she entered deliberately or by accident . deliberately or by accident. perhaps we'll never know . it's perhaps we'll never know. it's been too much speculation in this case. of course, we've had all sorts of ghouls going down there and causing even more harm to the family. so the sooner the police can get the post—mortem and the identification of . i'm and the identification of. i'm sure they'll be keen to get that information out there . a cabinet information out there. a cabinet minister says boris johnson's intervention on the northern ireland protocol is unhelpful because there's still of work to because there's still of work to be done. mr. johnson's warning that scrapping bill would be a great mistake and that comes a day after rishi sunak and the european commission president said they've made very good progress on fixing problems with the post—brexit trading arrangements. the protocol bill introduced under johnson gives

introduced underjohnson gives the uk the right to ignore eu rules and leader of the house of commons, penny mordaunt, believes that gives the government a stronger bargaining position. i think it's, it's helpful to remind the eu that we have the northern ireland protocol bill. it's helpful . protocol bill. it's helpful. remind them what those expectations are and but i would also just say that, look, we there are encouraging signs that there are encouraging signs that there is people are saying there's a lot more to do. but progress is being made . sir keir progress is being made. sir keir starmer says under no circumstance answers will labour do a deal with the snp. addressing a party conference in edinburgh , he urged scottish edinburgh, he urged scottish voters to put their faith in labourin voters to put their faith in labour in the wake of nicola sturgeon's resignation . sir keir sturgeon's resignation. sir keir says he can bring the change scotland needs and the tide is turning on the tories, on the snp . and the musical programme , snp. and the musical programme, the king's coronation, has been

revealed. an anthem written by composer andrew lloyd webber . composer andrew lloyd webber. it's one of 12 new pieces to be played during the ceremony. best known for musicals, including the phantom of the opera and jesus christ superstar . he said jesus christ superstar. he said he's incredibly honoured to have been asked. greek orthodox music will also be on the playlist at the parthenon request by king charles as a tribute to his late father . tv online charles as a tribute to his late father. tv online and debate plus radio. this is gb news. now it's plus radio. this is gb news. now wsfime plus radio. this is gb news. now it's time for free speech nation . a university professor goes into hiding after being falsely accused of islamophobia phobia. j.k. rowling is attacked again. and the new puritans come for roald dahl. this is free speech nafion roald dahl. this is free speech nation . welcome to free speech

nation. welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nation. with me, andrew doyle. so this is a show where we take a look at culture , current a look at culture, current affairs and politics. and of course, we'll update you on the anfics course, we'll update you on the antics of friendly antics of our friendly neighbourhood social justice activists. busy activists. you've got a busy week rewriting classic roald dahl books trying to find dahl books and trying to find the christian name. the phrase christian name. coming show tonight, coming up on the show tonight, i'm to be speaking the i'm going to be speaking to the university not to university professor not to effectively hiding after effectively go into hiding after he of he was wrongly accused of islamophobia. aaron brown from the british comedy guide will be here tell us about the return here to tell us about the return of bold eric from blackadder and also return fawlty also the return of fawlty towers. and going to towers. and we're going to discuss for the discuss the future for the scottish party, nicola scottish national party, nicola sturgeon's announcement this week is in fact week that she is in fact standing down. and i'm going to be speaking to isabel vaughan spruce, this spruce, who was cleared this week being prosecuted for week after being prosecuted for praying quietly outside an abortion clinic and also a young catholic student in canada who has been arrested for opposing school's policy on gender, ideology . all that and a whole ideology. all that and a whole lot more tonight on free speech nation. joining me all nation. but joining me all through are my through the night are my comedian josh howie and

comedian guests, josh howie and leo kearse . hello, you both. leo kearse. hello, you both. i feel because as soon as you came in, a member of the audience said that your shirt was horrible. yeah. yeah. obviously, a man with no teeth. yeah. or maybe you're the one with. no. no, this is the plane. sure. you can get in prime and, i mean, at least you can have a picnic on it. just you know. look, i like the just dresses down for the show. i think that's it. yeah this the show where this is like the show where i come to relax and have fun. yeah, whatever. what is nice? i leopard on. we're not sure what identifies but i do know identifies us, but i do know that it about identifies us, but i do know that it was abou primark. that it was about £3 in primark. okay, then that is okay, fine. well, then that is justifiable. that's going to start with some questions. we've got audience got a fantastic studio audience tonight, so let's get some questions from questions now. first one from john. john? john, john. where is john? john, hello. why have roald dahl hello. hi. why have roald dahl stories been rewritten ? yes. so stories been rewritten? yes. so this has been all over the internet over the past couple of days. roald dahl, of course, the beloved children's author, has had rewritten by the had his books rewritten by the publisher . we've got some publisher puffin. we've got some examples here. so look examples here. so let's look what talking about. so

what we're talking about. so this from edition this one first from the edition of witches. so the first of the witches. so the first edition says, don't foolish . edition says, don't be foolish. my edition says, don't be foolish. my grandmother you can't my grandmother said, you can't go pulling the of go around pulling the hair of every you meet , even if she every lady you meet, even if she is wearing gloves . just try is wearing gloves. just you try it see happens . and it and see what happens. and that's to don't be that's now changed to don't be foolish, my grandmother said. besides of besides there are plenty of other reasons women might other reasons why women might wear there certainly wear wigs, and there certainly nothing , right? nothing wrong with that, right? wonderful. and this also from the witches . even if she is the witches. even if she is working as a cashier in a supermarket or typing letters for a businessman that has now changed to even if she is working as a top scientist or running a business. nice little feminist to that one and from the original material we've got, she went on. whereas the olden days , sailing ships with joseph days, sailing ships with joseph conrad , she went to africa with conrad, she went to africa with ernest hemingway and to india with richard kipling. and that's become she went to 19th century estates with jane austen . she estates with jane austen. she went to africa with ernest hemingway and california with john steinbeck . so this hemingway and california with john steinbeck. so this isn't just censoring the bits that are

perceived to be problematic. these actually rewrite writing andifs these actually rewrite writing and it's not as good as first thing, i mean is good you've got to admire the ego of somebody who thinks that they can take roald dahl books and be like, no, i know how you can improve this. yeah, i mean, it's an absolute, absolute nonsense. what to do next? what are they going to do next? they take failed they going to take some failed tips the mona. going tips to the mona. are they going to put make a smile a bit more clear? first, sunroof in the sistine chapel. know, can we sistine chapel. you know, can we carve vagina into carve a vagina into michelangelo's of david? carve a vagina into micyour|gelo's of david? carve a vagina into mic your whistler of david? carve a vagina into mic your whistler. of david? carve a vagina into mic your whistler . where'savid? carve a vagina into mic your whistler . where's this’ it's your whistler. where's this going to end? so my problem with all of this is , well, obviously, all of this is, well, obviously, it's the revision of artistic works. mr. we would have not works. mr. you we would have not we wouldn't have a western canon if rid of every author if we got rid of every author that had problematic to their character. they're character. but now they're doing this of things he's this because of the things he's saying books. but the saying in the books. but the books twisted up books are meant to be twisted up like meant to be dark. like they're meant to be dark. and yeah, i mean, that's the whole point of children's literature to of give literature is to sort of give them space to be able to them a safe space to be able to examine these things. fat examine these things. ugly, fat things. and see you in a things. yes. and see you in a minute, john. yeah, well, you

said ugly and fat have said the word ugly and fat have actually i'm actually been taken. so i'm saying fat. they've saying i'll get fat. they've also taken out the word, which is weird. they put woman in is weird. and they put woman in like female is exclusive like somehow female is exclusive and now women because women means everything . they put women means everything. they put women with an x in box and they put that in. i don't know. i mean , i that in. i don't know. i mean, i don't read to my children. i just give them ipads. yeah i mean, i find this really appalling. i mean, it is this idea that you can revise an artist's work. i find it actually really morally objectionable. i just don't think it can be excused in any way at all. yes, i think we crossed a red line with this sort ideological thrust sort of ideological thrust behind it is really obvious because not only are these are removing gender from removing the gender from negative depictions of women, but they're introducing . so but they're introducing. so there's a there's a line , he there's a there's a line, he says, silly idiot . so some says, silly idiot. so some that's been changed to silly boys. that's been changed to silly boys . so actually he's actually boys. so actually he's actually . yeah. yeah. let me read you into this. it's interesting that they took out any reference to richard and that's just richard kipling, and that's just because readers because the sensitivity readers don't rudyard kipling.

don't like rudyard kipling. right. steinbeck's right. so steinbeck's such a strange replacement. well, they're to have, like, the they're going to have, like, the end babies end of that breastfeeding babies because they're starving to death in dust bowl america. well, it also isn't the one book i read as a student, by the way. it's mice and men. quite a problematic text in of itself anyway. so they're making it worse because the book worse because it wasn't the book i grapes yes. i read. grapes of wrath. yes. yeah. we're to move yeah. anyway we're going to move on to a question from jeff on now to a question from jeff where's jeff. should where's jay? hi, jeff. should chris stop trends from chris rulers stop trends from playing young girls? playing against young girls? yeah, i couldn't believe this story so, basically, six first story. so, basically, six first class counties have asked the england and wales cricket board why that a middle aged why it is that a middle aged player who transition female player who transition to female is competing against girls as young as 12? my understanding cricket in the way that cricket works the local cricket works at the local cricket games, it all age games, you can have it all age rising and sort of grandparents playing against kids and all and it's fine. fine it's all fine. it's all fine until a sort of a hulking middle aged comes in and there's aged man comes in and there's a 12, 12 year old girl on the 12,12 year old girl on the pitch. that changes the pitch. that kind of changes the dynamic little bit, doesn't pitch. that kind of changes the dy|yeah. little bit, doesn't pitch. that kind of changes the dy|yeah. andtle bit, doesn't pitch. that kind of changes the dy|yeah. and thisit, doesn't pitch. that kind of changes the dy|yeah. and this trends. n't it. yeah. and this trends. trends women are bloke who

trends women are a bloke who identifies as women, whatever you're see as you're supposed to see as already injured because i mean, cricket not it's not no cricket is not it's not no contact you've bat , your contact. you've got a bat, your hand and there's a hard leathery ball that you whack at people . ball that you whack at people. and so he's already injured an and another player who wasn't able to play for several months . right. so i'm i'm interested in cricket. no, this sounds amazing. got some bloke amazing. you've got some bloke in a frog to smash cricket balls at children is fun. he's turned into, like, the hunger games now, which is much more interesting as cricket is kind of dull, isn't it? so that you need to spice it up. and if it means children, so be it. things is more people is going to get more people watching, advertising. watching, better advertising. yeah going to peak. yeah but this is going to peak. this if anything is going to peak middle england . yeah, this peak middle england. yeah, this is thing. finally is the thing. finally going to be and in australia they've be tv and in australia they've got surfers male surfers competing with women and america's got skateboarders. now got county cricket . cricket. got county cricket. cricket. it's going to be a it's going to be tough, but it's amazing. like, say, people have been actually injured this is actually injured and this is what's interesting that this

what's interesting is that this has for about three has been on for about three years now. they put it towards the and the board has just the board and the board has just been kind go, oh, just go to been kind of go, oh, just go to stonewall's website, it stonewall's website, check it out. this a middle out. you've got this a middle aged potentially sharing aged man potentially sharing a changing teenage girls changing room with teenage girls . all of potential . there's all sorts of potential safeguarding all safeguarding issues and all that. serious that. so there's a very serious aspect of this. but like aspect of all of this. but like you say, it will, suffice it you say, it will, but suffice it pick it? i people pick people, won't it? i people sort of wake up to the problem of this and no one's saying that this can't identify this person can't identify however their however they like in their in their private in their their private life or in their pubuc their private life or in their public in fact, no one's public life. in fact, no one's got a problem with that. they've got a problem with that. they've got with them smashing cricket got a with them smashing cricket balls a balls at children. yeah. a portfolio least we know portfolio at least we know of what sturgeon going to what nicola sturgeon is going to do. to be vicar do. she's going to be the vicar for the cricket team. it sounds good, but she's got some time on her so i think her hands now, so i think that'll be lovely we a that'll be lovely we get a question now from tony west tony. boris johnson tony. hi, tony. is boris johnson going rishi sunak's, going to scupper rishi sunak's, northern trading deal? northern ireland trading deal? yeah, interesting of yeah, this is an interesting of horns, it? so rishi sunak. horns, isn't it? so rishi sunak. he's obviously been with he's obviously been meeting with the northern irish politics politicians this week cause he's trying sort this deal trying to sort out this deal surrounding he's surrounding the protocol. he's sort liaising with the eu as

sort of liaising with the eu as well. this is going on and on. of course stormont been of course stormont hasn't been up may. you know, up and since last may. you know, they to elect speaker they tried to elect a speaker again the other day. didn't happen. and you need to speak to implement had implement legislation we've had to budget to push through budget at westminster. need up westminster. we need stormont up and running. we need an executive northern ireland executive in northern ireland and to be the and the protocol seems to be the thing stopping it. so thing that's stopping it. so bofisis thing that's stopping it. so boris is coming in. might it change now? what do think? change now? what do you think? no, boris is coming in no, i mean boris is coming in just kind of mess with sunak. just to kind of mess with sunak. it's he said. yeah because it's like he said. yeah because sara it looks like sara is actually it looks like doing called being doing something called being an aduh doing something called being an adult compromises adult and making compromises and there's a catch on. yeah. what a crazy thing. i know. gone crazy thing. i know. it's gone out of fashion over the last ten years or but this actually years or so, but this actually going be moving forward, going to be moving forward, having having this compromise with something with the eu to have something that's working for that's working sensible for everybody and then that's working sensible for everyjohnson's and then that's working sensible for everyjohnson's comingi then that's working sensible for everyjohnson's coming along and boris johnson's coming along and just no, no, no, don't get just go, no, no, no, don't get of that. and the whole point of that was to have leverage that whole was to have leverage the if they don't need it the eu and if they don't need it because a sensible the eu and if they don't need it bthen;e a sensible the eu and if they don't need it bthen what's a sensible the eu and if they don't need it bthen what's the a sensible the eu and if they don't need it bthen what's the problem?�*|sible the eu and if they don't need it bthen what's the problem? but.e , then what's the problem? but what with the solution what was wrong with the solution that been positive before that had been positive before with the the red and green with the idea the red and green lanes when it comes to the

trading. what's wrong with that. you why can make you know why why can they make that you can go that work? because you can go through red when you're through the red line when you're to the green list. to go through the green list. what honesty ? appeal to what about honesty? appeal to people's honesty , because then people's honesty, because then that's that's what communism look at that. and so you don't think that i mean, for instance, the dpi has some very clear red lines and one of those is the idea that the european of justice should have any kind of say final the in the say in the final in the in the trade disputes in their country say in the final in the in the t|and disputes in their country say in the final in the in the t|and iisputes in their country say in the final in the in the t|and i thinks in their country say in the final in the in the t|and i think that'seir country say in the final in the in the t|and i think that's fair:ountry . and i think that's fair enough, right? yeah. i mean, that seems fair enough. but i think the picture is, the think the bigger picture is, the britain europe becoming britain and europe are becoming closer of closer together because of ukraine it's ukraine and just because it's been quite long time been been quite a long time since brexit happened. so feelings softening and also feelings are softening and also there been stampede there hasn't been the stampede for exit know, some for the exit you know, some people europe feared would people in europe feared would trigger. boris trigger. do you think boris might come back? yes. yes. really this is really because what this is about a vote winner is, you about is a vote winner is, you know, you win . you can know, you could win. you can potentially when you you potentially when you win, you you'd over that. josh, you'd be all over that. josh, please . it's possible. it's not please. it's possible. it's not new. there have been sort of intimations as a possible.

there's no way as i've say. no, i mean, maybe after the election but i don't think even at this point anyone can point there's anyone who can win. but what's really funny is that you've actually got people, the party say, have the tory party say, who have blackmail, then blackmail, so not going and then when sunak is like making these compromises, going, oh compromises, they're going, oh well to look well now you're going to look weak. and it's like you're the one who's making look weak one who's making him look weak by him to this. maybe by forcing him to do this. maybe it's funny. well, it's not that funny. well, i thought you'd enjoy a bit of thought i. you'd enjoy a bit of tory because you tory infighting because you don't they're out of don't like them. they're out of my name. i just want things to work. to work, if possible. yeah, think we all want, yeah, i think what we all want, ultimately, a question ultimately, we've got a question now is now from justine. where is justine? justin, sorry justine? justin, justin. sorry to say on my article, to say justine on my article, i wasn't missing gender. i'll be. is it time to stop using the phrase christian life? okay yeah. oh, please stop . so this yeah. oh, please stop. so this is just. yeah. oh, please stop. so this isjust. i cover this yeah. oh, please stop. so this is just. i cover this stuff every week. it's like sometimes i just say, please give every week. it's like sometimes ijust say, please give me i just say, please give me a rest. just one week when you don't do this. all right. but anyway, here we go. so a university basically tried to ban the phrase name. they say it's if this the

it's an offence if this is the university of kent, by the way, says offensive. is says it's really offensive. is it offensive is this it really offensive or is this just patronising to just really patronising to minority non—christians who minority and non—christians who actually don't? yeah, i don't think really cares. think anybody really cares. but they probably that you they probably care more that you get christian name and get the christian name right and right them justine. right and not call them justine. yeah that's right. well know, i don't like to blame what was written on the autocue. i'm not. not just a puppet. i should have known that was wrong. they also wanted to ban the word. certainly i'm because they say it's patriarchal . it comes from it's patriarchal. it comes from sir name belt the same as it it's not spelled the same. but in mediaeval england it probably was. so they want to replace it with name. but surely with family name. but surely that's problematic that's also problematic it suggests people should suggests you know, people should families and you know the whole nuclear know child producing nuclear you know child producing aspect alive which is, aspect of being alive which is, you know against queer. yeah that's obviously right. maybe the word maybe the idea of a name can be problematic. yeah. you know, so labelling yourself the you numbers, you the berkowitz you numbers, you should just be numbers. and then there's of ms. no, but there's no risk of ms. no, but

there's no risk of ms. no, but the problem is that the barcodes are binary. yeah, yeah , you're are binary. yeah, yeah, you're right . didn't think that one right. didn't think that one through anyway , we've got one through anyway, we've got one more question now. this is from mina. where is me? hi, mina , how mina. where is me? hi, mina, how are you? hi. i'm good, thanks. mina. where is me? hi, mina, how are you? hi. i'm good, thanks . i are you? hi. i'm good, thanks. i dissident tv still safe in the uk . yeah, this is an uk. yeah, this is an interesting. so this a tv network called iran international which is now been totally pulled because they have been getting threats from iran against its journalists. apparently there's a significant escalation of these from from the state in iran. this is so it's going to carry on operating, far as i'm aware, from washington. but this kind of a bit freaky, isn't it? what do you make of this one there? well yeah, it is terrifying. it shows the extent other states such iran russia, come such iran and russia, can come into our and inflict into our country and inflict terror murder people. terror and murder people. i mean, what poisonings we've mean, what the poisonings we've had, oligarchs being being had, the oligarchs being being killed the russian state. killed by the russian state. iran obviously had the fatwah against salman rushdie, which, you being you know, ended up being partially the partially successful with the attack against them. so, i mean,

it's i don't know. it's sort of terrifying. and you see, you know, the open borders that we've i don't it's we've got, i don't know. it's not it's not a perfect sort of overlap or anything. but i think i think it's related. we're just not secure in this country. but for me , just wonder whether it's for me, just wonder whether it's about, you know, standing to sort of foreign states who attempt , intimidate, sort of foreign states who attempt, intimidate, you i attempt, intimidate, you know, i mean, when comes to the mean, women when comes to the rushdie affair, we were having debates or was he asking debates on tv or was he asking for it? no, he wasn't. he wrote a why didn't we just a book. so why didn't we just collectively and say collectively stand up and say no? creatives to write no? our creatives get to write whatever they our tv whatever they want. our tv channels get, show whatever they want. to, want. we don't listen to, cowards. a right and but cowards. we have a right and but i a bit i'm a bit excited i was a bit i'm a bit excited about this whole to about this whole idea, to be honest because you honest mean, because when you mentioned dissident news channels, well, channels, i was thinking, well, if we really just lay into iran, maybe they'll start targeting gb news then we can move to news and then we can move to america. there's a silver america. yeah, there's a silver lining to every terrifying scenario. oh i'm going to click put it online and you can face the consequences .

put it online and you can face the consequences. i'm doing it. it's done anyway . after the it's done anyway. after the break on free speech nation , i'm break on free speech nation, i'm going to be talking to a distinguished academic who was so worried about safety so worried about his safety being wrongly labelled islamophobic that he had to wear a when he left the a disguise when he left the house. so in a couple of minutes

welcome back to beat nice with me. andrew doyle you a university lecturer who was wrongly accused of islamophobia has revealed that he was scared for his life. such was the hate campaign he was subjected to. professor stephen greer was practically forced into hiding after bristol university law school undergraduates claimed that elements of a course he was teaching were racist and discriminatory. he was exonerated, however, by an inquiry of any wrongdoing, and he's now written a book falsely accused of islamophobia. my struggle against academic

cancellation . this was published cancellation. this was published this week by academic press . and this week by academic press. and professor stephen greer joins me now . professor greer, thanks now. professor greer, thanks very much for joining now. professor greer, thanks very much forjoining me now. professor greer, thanks very much for joining me today. could we start by just going through what the accusations were against you? what exactly were against you? what exactly were these students claiming that you had done ? well it's that you had done? well it's important to bear in mind the background to this. i have been teaching this unit and the module . it's called human rights module. it's called human rights and law, politics and society . and law, politics and society. and then the module is entitled islam china and the far east. i've been teaching this for nearly a decade and a half, including to muslims students with incident , basically with incident, basically university of bristol, islamic society, press, soc claim that practically everything in the modern and everything in the model a module was islamophobic and even things like that. that also realise, for example , they also realise, for example, they said that i had claimed that the

chinese repression of the uighurs was only superficially discriminatory and what in fact they'd done there was that light on to that was exactly the opposite of what i've said, but a light at a claim i made about the counterterrorism in this country , which i said was only country, which i said was only superficially discriminatory with a clear mindset of the chinese , which i said it was chinese, which i said it was much more obviously they were much more obviously they were much more obviously assessed by community security as community. there were several other things, but but they even claimed, for example, that the things that are universally acknowledged and accepted in the academic literature, for example , but in literature, for example, but in its early history , islam spread its early history, islam spread through war, conquest, literature , trade and conversion literature, trade and conversion . they claim that was islamophobic and in fact , a lot islamophobic and in fact, a lot a lot of the thing, everything that i said in the course was based upon this authoritative

academic sources and they claim that it was all islamophobic . i that it was all islamophobic. i mean, this is very difficult to comprehend in many ways because it reminds me of the cross—party in inquiry into islamophobia that we had and the government came up with this idea that if you were to mention that the prophet mohammed who prophet mohammed had wives who we to be under we would consider to be under age, that would be age, that that would be islamophobic. and anyone who suggested of course, suggested it was. but of course, that's that's in the islamic text. they're not really text. so they're not really doing research. but also, doing their research. but also, when accused laughing when you are accused of laughing at kind of at the koran and that kind of thing. i mean, that was thing. yes. i mean, that was another lie. what we didn't the class actually laughed at an extract from the analects of confucius , which had quoted in confucius, which i had quoted in the same class as i quoted from the same class as i quoted from the koran. so the people who accused me of laughing at the koran were either not paying particularly close attention or it was another deliberate lie. but there were so many deliberate lies and the accusation that it's difficult to give it any credit, and i think we ought to appreciate

that the motive for this smear and this to this vilification and this to this vilification and victimisation was to try and discredit my defence of the present counter—terrorist programme and also to rescue another bristol professor david mellor , who was accused of mellor, who was accused of antisemitism and he was eventually sacked from that, that they the trouble that he find himself in. can i ask you about the accusation because an accusation of islamophobia can be very dangerous in of itself. i mean, if you look at the precedent of what happened to samuel paty, the teacher in paris who was attacked and killed, similarly, of course , killed, similarly, of course, the massacre at charlie hebdo, you know, this is not an accusation that should made accusation that should be made lightly. has been your lightly. what has been your experience of this? well when i first discovered it, the complaint was made to the university of bristol in october 2020, and they sat on it for several months . i didn't even

several months. i didn't even get i heard there was that there had been a complaint, but i wasn't told what precisely it wasn't told what precisely it was . i wasn't told what precisely it was. i didn't find out what the complaint was until bristol launched this scourge and very, very hostile social media campaign . on the 15th of campaign. on the 15th of november 2021. and of course, like you say , even just been like you say, even just been accused of islamic phobia and having laughed at the koran, all of these things are potentially life threatening. so it was very, very frightening. and i appeal to the university immediately on the day itself that they must do something to stop it. and they haven't done anything to stop it. even up until this event today , now the until this event today, now the campaign has retreated into the shadows . but a lot of the shadows. but a lot of the material, the defamatory material, the defamatory material, for example , the material, for example, the petition is still readily

available on the internet , so we available on the internet, so we won't hear previous guests was talking about cowardice . and i talking about cowardice. and i think that's exactly what happenedin think that's exactly what happened in my case. the university could have and should have disciplined these students , but declined to do so because it was afraid of itself. think condemned as islamophobic . i condemned as islamophobic. i mean, is there a broader problem here with this idea that one particular ought to be particular religion ought to be ring from criticism? now ring fenced from criticism? now you've made clear that you weren't being islamophobic, but what people who do want to what about people who do want to mock should that not be mock islam? should that not be within to do that as within our rights to do that as well? we mock christianity , well? we mock christianity, judaism, whatever . well, i'm judaism, whatever. well, i'm only going to comment upon the academic context. i think in the academic context. i think in the academic context, which is the one that most applies to me . one that most applies to me. everything i've said was measured , careful, cautious , measured, careful, cautious, supported by the academic literature . and because it was literature. and because it was safe, i felt absolutely secure and safe. and that was nothing

that could possibly be legitimately condemned , debated legitimately condemned, debated how wrong i was and what sort of precautions did you find yourself taking? once, once the accusations came in? well, the image in the immediate aftermath of it, nothing really . but there of it, nothing really. but there was a suspicious incident outside my home on the 25th. the february 2021, the day that al jazeera reported the story and my wife this was during covid, of course, my wife happened to be i'd made an arrangement to travel to a young friend who just had a baby and her husband was abroad . and the next day was abroad. and the next day i decided i was going to go with her, even though that would have otherwise have been a breach of covid restrictions . we contacted covid restrictions. we contacted the police . the police took the the police. the police took the incident very , very seriously. incident very, very seriously. and, of course , it didn't regard and, of course, it didn't regard the fact that i joined her for a

few days as a violation of the covid regulations . that was an covid regulations. that was an emergency. what i did thereafter was when we returned to bristol , i wore the skies at the time. iused , i wore the skies at the time. i used to wear contact lenses, so i had the perfect glasses . i so i had the perfect glasses. i pulled the hood of my hotel. i started to grow a beard. that took a few weeks to actually to get to any significant length. i carried a stone umbrella, had quite a slow screwdriver in my pocket, so it was a warning time. but over over a couple of weeks, of course , the sense of weeks, of course, the sense of anxiety diminished and i also was i also thought of leaving bristol and going to stay with my brother and sister. my sister in law, who live in northern ireland. but i thought this is this is cowardly on my part. if these people are coming after me and if they want to make me a martyr to freedom of expression

and academics, freedom, so be it. i've had a good life. i'm in my mid sixties and i want to carry on having a good life. but if somebody wants to do me harm for this, for this reason, so be it . do you feel now that you've it. do you feel now that you've been exonerated, that things can go back to some level of normalcy ? well, no , i i've normalcy? well, no, i i've retired and i and the reason that i retired and i and the reason thati chose retired and i and the reason that i chose to write the book come to take the stand that i have, is because that was on the agenda. that was, you know , agenda. that was, you know, planned . and had i been planned. and had i been a younger man earlier in my career , younger man earlier in my career i , younger man earlier in my career , i may well have taken a very different course of action . but different course of action. but in the last few months of my working life, the university failed even to officially . failed even to officially. recognise or to validate my

return to work. i was off work for several months , kind of the for several months, kind of the stress of this crisis from september over 21 to january 22, the universe still failed. firstly, due to authorise my return to work . so i retired in return to work. so i retired in september 2022 under applied and hugely demoralised and disappointed that after 36 years of service, this was the reward that i had received . and of that i had received. and of course potentially, i suppose, my life might still be at risk. i don't know who's there, who my and salmond lost his case to whom you referred earlier. of course, it was over 30 years since the fatwa, and he was until he was attacked . so you until he was attacked. so you never know when somebody is going to come after you and when they're going to launch an attack. what professor grey, we are out of time. thank you very

much for coming on the show and for writing your book, which is called falsely accused of islamophobia my struggle against academic cancellation . thanks academic cancellation. thanks very you much. very much. thank you very much. thank much for having thank you very much for having me. so, i mean, this is me. speak so, i mean, this is a very interesting case. and again, it comes down to university authorities failing to take into account that these accusations can be can be scary. yeah, i mean , i was a little bit yeah, i mean, i was a little bit offended that he was laughing at confucius. yeah oh, over . confucius. yeah oh, i'm over. but no, i think university of bristol in particular seems to have a real issue with this stuff. and like i said, it's very it's a sad story, really. he's worked there for three decades, more than three decades. and you know, all it takes is a group of students to come in and make these false accusations is reminiscent of the kathleen stott scenario is absolutely neat and it's just and the work islamophobia is enough to herald that cowardice. like he said . yeah. and that's like he said. yeah. and that's an interesting, wasn't it. because if you're teaching about

islam and we have the same at a university in america where the an art historian was presenting an art historian was presenting an image of the prophet mohammed , very important , which was a very important recognised image persian art recognised image in persian art and important . i wouldn't and a very important. i wouldn't do that. no that is. yeah but there was there legitimate there was there was legitimate academic so . academic reasons for doing so. yeah. and the accusations yeah. yeah. and the accusations of islamophobia shows the, you know , accusing somebody of know, accusing somebody of islamophobia or racism is an incredibly dangerous, toxic thing to do . so it should be thing to do. so it should be illegal if we're going to hate speech laws, it should definitely you say that. but bristol, he mentioned david miller. now, david miller was accused of anti—semitism. and finally fired for it. the difference was the way that the university of bristol dealt with that was to just utterly ignore it . it shouldn't be a faculty it. it shouldn't be a faculty matter. it should be an actual criminal matter. this is, this is, this is. yeah, but of course , the main thing is this is for me , hatred for men to get hatred me, hatred for men to get hatred against. we do what we do have libel laws, however. well, not laws, but we have the recourse

to if someone makes to libel if someone makes an accusation, shouldn't accusation, you shouldn't have to lawyer to clear to pay for a lawyer to clear your name from from something like this. i mean, this is something that is heinous and it's and deeply it's invidious and deeply damaging to somebody. it should be a crime. well, we're going to have to take a break now. but after free speech after the break on free speech nafion after the break on free speech nation comedy character nation iconic comedy character baldrick will be baldrick from blackadder will be making first appearance for making his first appearance for 20 of this year's 20 years as part of this year's comic relief appeal. and to discuss more, i'm discuss that and much more, i'm going joined by aaron going to be joined by aaron brown from the comedy brown from the british comedy guide. a few minutes.

on mark dolan tonight in my big opinion is rishi sunak on the verge of a brexit breakthrough ? verge of a brexit breakthrough? bofis verge of a brexit breakthrough? boris johnson got brexit done . boris johnson got brexit done. it seems that can make brexit work . it will be a turning point work. it will be a turning point for his premiership. it might take a ten. prince andrew is likely to be turfed out of his £30 million royal lodge with king charles tightening the purse strings. good news. it's

time the pompous prince paid his own way. and my mar means guest is brexit supporting tory legend sir bill cash will live . sir bill cash will live. at nine. welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation the bbc's comic relief day. we'll be back in march. raising money for poor and disadvantaged people around the world. and this year it will feature the return of a familiar face. what are you going to be then, sir? the noble tommy, precisely standing over the body of the ravaged nun. i want a wimple. we should have gone before we started the picture. you funny is, my you know, the funny thing is, my father was a nun . you know, he father was a nun. you know, he wasn't. he was so sir unknown. because whenever he was up in court and the judge used to say, occupation, he'd say nun . yes. occupation, he'd say nun. yes. that's back at his inept

sidekick , baldrick, played by sidekick, baldrick, played by tony robinson . he'll be making tony robinson. he'll be making his first appearance for 20 years, although blackadder himself will not be making what would be an eagerly awaited return. so here to discuss this, i'm joined aaron brown from i'm joined by aaron brown from the british comedy . what does it the british comedy. what does it say? i mean , we also had say? i mean, we also had recently john, he's talking about the return of fawlty towers in a new form and that baldrick is popping up again in comic relief. i mean, does this suggest that there aren't many characters or shows that are more recent that we have, as beloved as those, i suppose? i think it probably does . i mean, think it probably does. i mean, for as long as comic relief has existed, it has brought up classics of the past. for example , on i think it was the example, on i think it was the second comic relief telethon in 1988. they included a whole half hour of full episode repeat of dad's army , right? so it's never dad's army, right? so it's never been above looking back to

popular comedies and comedians of the past. i think the difference here is that this is almost the only thing we actually know about because there are so few popular comedies that they can make specials of. yeah, i mean, it's nothing . but there's no harm, is nothing. but there's no harm, is there, in bringing back these old beloved characters? no, it's absolutely fine. and it's for a good cause. but you know, i remember recently there was a big thing on twitter where people about all people were talking about all the things that the bbc the great things that the bbc had done for comedy. and this was were talking was because we were talking about getting of the licence about getting rid of the licence fee were listing about getting rid of the licence fee of were listing about getting rid of the licence fee of amazingere listing about getting rid of the licence fee of amazing comedies, but loads of amazing comedies, but they were all 30 years old and more. . it's, it's more. yeah it is. it's, it's difficult to get past that once you first notice it. yeah there is . i tend to you first notice it. yeah there is. i tend to think there is very little today that you can't make an argument for or deserving to exist, deserving to

be made and broadcast on its own merit , but taken be made and broadcast on its own merit, but taken as a whole , merit, but taken as a whole, it's quite unsatisfying comedy meal. there isn't much diversity in tone or style . yeah, there in tone or style. yeah, there are a lot of programmes that are on ostensibly sitcoms, much more in the vein of comedy, drama and reality that feature people working in or around comedy. the media, 20 something living in london almost always unlucky in love. yes and you know, as i these these programmes , they're these these programmes, they're often very well written some of them i really like some of them don't do much for me. an interview really i wouldn't say the any of them are awful but it's that lack of diversity and it's that lack of diversity and it's not to suggest there aren't

talented people working in the industry, but rather that there's nothing really that stands something that stands out as something that will the test of as will stand the test of time as genius or something that is indeed laugh out loud, funny. i wondered what degree mean, wondered what degree i mean, we've cancellation wondered what degree i mean, we"week, cancellation wondered what degree i mean, we"week, but cancellation wondered what degree i mean, we"week, but you 1cellation wondered what degree i mean, we"week, but you know, ion wondered what degree i mean, we"week, but you know, an wondered what degree i mean, we"week, but you know, a lot of the week, but you know, a lot of comedians become, comedians have become, i suppose, rather than suppose, preachers rather than comedians. a lot of comedy commissioners have become activists rather than comedy. i mean, see them tweet all the mean, i see them tweet all the time about white privilege and gender ideology and that kind of thing. the thing. yeah, it does narrow the scope kind comedy scope of what kind of comedy you're get. yeah, it's you're going to get. yeah, it's very much monoculture amongst very much a monoculture amongst . the creative gatekeepers . . the creative gatekeepers. commissioners, producers . so you commissioners, producers. so you get you you get very little that is reflective of anything outside the kind of stereotype of the metropolitan elite . yeah. of the metropolitan elite. yeah. well that's university educated . i mean, last week we had samantha presti, the comedian, and she'd published an article

on chortle and people won't know that's an industry website where comedians often just write articles and submit them and they put them up and it's absolutely fine. but this was the only time i've ever seen the editor of chortle step in and write a comments saying how much he with because he disagreed with this because her was not the fashionable her view was not the fashionable view and his view is very much in line the identity. a in line with the identity. a illiberal modern movement that has captured the industry so is that evidence of what's that just evidence of what's going and the way, her going on? and by the way, her show was then cancelled because she views . yeah, she had unpopular views. yeah, it's quite ironic that you say you're you're quitting comedy because you don't you don't feel that if people on people aren't saying anything is pushing boundanes. saying anything is pushing boundaries . yes. and then you boundaries. yes. and then you get cancel for doing so it's because viewpoint and didn't exactly they did i mean you're quite right it it's really i mean it's just so unhealthy it's comedy comedians are supposedly

telling truth to power in comedy comes from the kind of heritage the idea of the court jester the person who was able to prick the pomposity of the king and bring them down to the if not the common man's level, then at least the lords and ladies level . yes, but that doesn't seem to be much of that anymore , is be much of that anymore, is there's a lot of singing from there's a lot of singing from the same hymn sheet and that's an important point, isn't it, that you make that, you know, we have now an industry that is run or dominated by not just commissioners and promoters, but critics as well, who actually want the jester to toe the establishment line. they don't want the king to be criticised . want the king to be criticised. more ringmaster than a just keeping up, keeping up appearances . i mean, you say appearances. i mean, you say there were, you know , there have there were, you know, there have been certain changes around we've seen the bbc was forced to

move for a separate out to manchester channel 4 to leeds . manchester channel 4 to leeds. yeah the people who are still staffing these in stations still in the decision making roles no matter whether they are from the north, from london, from the south, from scotland , no matter south, from scotland, no matter their class background, no matter their their sex, their sexuality , their they're always sexuality, their they're always they all seem to have exactly they all seem to have exactly the same outlook world view. and thatis the same outlook world view. and that is what's feeding in to such a staid and .just stifling such a staid and. just stifling ratings on it. it's boring and also you know part of their worldview is, in fact, that those who disagree with them should not be platformed. so you will that diversity will never get that diversity that looking at. that you're looking at. absolutely the completely true if you if you look at like the

ratings for not just comedy , but ratings for not just comedy, but i think it is particularly acute a problem in comedy for television ratings . so you might television ratings. so you might get 5 million people, for example , who watched the live example, who watched the live final of the masked singer on itv last night. final of the masked singer on itv last night . contemporary itv last night. contemporary comedy . i mean, may be out of comedy. i mean, may be out of push a hit show will get 1.5 million. right. and they say that they excuse it by saying people just don't watch television anymore. it's all on catch up. well the likes of call the midwife or the masked singer or happy valley, any of these big ticket shows proof that that audience is there and that they do tune in and in huge numbers , do tune in and in huge numbers, just like they did 20 years ago, just like they did 20 years ago, just like they did 20 years ago, just like they did 30 years ago. if the programming is there , if the programming is there, that appeals to them. yeah, but

they'd rather watch some list listed doing karaoke in a mask. depressing. so anyway, thanks very much for joining depressing. so anyway, thanks very much forjoining me depressing. so anyway, thanks very much for joining me tonight . after the break from free speech nation , it's time to speech nation, it's time to tackle the big political story of the week. after the announcement that nicola sturgeon is stepping down as first minister. we're going to ask what future holds for ask what the future holds for the national party. see the scottish national party. see in minute .

welcome back to free speech nation. with me, andrew doyle. in a shock move this week , in a shock move this week, scotland's first minister nicola sturgeon announced her resignation and questionably one of the major figures in british politics this century. sturgeon has served as first minister and leader of the scottish national party since 2014. her departure appears to leave a vacuum with no obvious successor in place and the parties are sensing

opportunities in scotland. so here to assess the fallout from a tumultuous week in scottish politics, i'm joined by the commentator chair of the commentator and chair of the newly scottish union for newly formed scottish union for education, stuart white. and thanks me thanks very much for joining me today. i want to ask you first and foremost, what are your views on an nicola sturgeon, do you she right to you think that she was right to resign she did ? you have resign when she did? you have to. too little, too late, perhaps . to. too little, too late, perhaps. it's a bit of a surprise. i think a lot of people are very happy in scotland. i think that as you say, there is a bit of a vacuum. the scottish politics isn't isn't filled with inspiring individual policies. isn't filled with inspiring individual policies . but i do individual policies. but i do think she she was quite an important person in terms of i mean, i watch i watch your show and all of the trends that you discuss . nicola sturgeon was not discuss. nicola sturgeon was not the pinnacle . she was very, very the pinnacle. she was very, very good being a caring authoritarian. so she the laws,

the number of laws that they've introduced in scotland or attempted to introduce which generally speaking went against the complex , well it's almost the complex, well it's almost it's almost a you could see in almost every law whether it's to ban the lights smoking or to introduce the hate crime law or alcohol pricing and so on. in parliament, you'd have about 70, 75% voting in favour . parliament, you'd have about 70, 75% voting in favour. in the public. it was about 70, 75% against. so what we saw, linda, over the last sorry, go on. in that sense, the gender recognition bill, this is not a unique thing. you know, two thirds of the scottish electorate opposed it. the snp wanted to do it anyway. but as you say, they've been things like the named person scheme, you know, banning two for one pizzas, sort of pizzas, these very sort of authoritarian state authoritarian nanny state ish approaches. it that approaches. so was it just that the snp are pretty much always approaches. so was it just that the ofip are pretty much always approaches. so was it just that the of touch pretty much always approaches. so was it just that the of touch pretty msolelyways out of touch and are solely relying on the issue of independence ? well, i think what

independence? well, i think what happens is because they have the independence card, it's created a kind of a left to dictatorship. so they'll play that card. people are , i think, that card. people are, i think, understandably disillusioned with politics in scotland. do you have an out something that can inspire potentially the idea of a new start, which is having an independence scotland? and so they play that card and then once that's gone, they just spend that introducing these new laws named first and forever. each child's hate crime laws banning it's like smacking pricing. edinburgh's city councils have now introduced this thing where it's going to be a vegan city social pensioners, people in hospitals, anyone that's in a prison , if anyone that's in a prison, if they're already there, they'll have to have a vegan diet because obviously, you know, we can't decide what's best for us or our children . the point, or our children. the point, though, will be to just get sick

of this and boot them out. i mean, the problem is you've even got someone like humza. yusuf is evenin got someone like humza. yusuf is even in the running for the leadership he's one of most leadership he's one of the most authoritarian people in the world. know, he's world. i think, you know, he's sort pushed through this sort of pushed through this draconian hate speech. bill will the learn? well, just the snp ever learn? well, just so the role of the humza so just the role of the humza yousaf thing? i mean, bear in mind, he wanted bat hate mind, he wanted the bat hate crime bill to include the punishments of playwrights and actors, even actors . right. so actors, even actors. right. so you're just reading a script and if it doesn't sit within the framework of not being offensive to whoever , then you could to whoever, then you could potentially been arrested. i think it was up to seven years imprisonment when it was playwright's as well. i mean, that was got rid of but not it was against some us wish because he thinks playwrights should clearly be being not not just cancelled and cancelled but arrested and imprisoned for that so. well i think some of them are terrible but i think that's a bit much, you know, i mean, he also said that people should be arrested if hateful in if they said hateful things in the privacy their own home.

the privacy of their own home. i mean, it'll be him mean, do you think it'll be him or do you think this will be, you know, kate forbes or angus or sweeney? who you think is or sweeney? who do you think is going next leader? going to be the next leader? i got say, i haven't got got to say, i haven't got a clue. i mean, most of these people, like most people in scotland, i mean, the main next to to me, you they to nothing to me, you know, they don't represent don't necessarily represent anything. and worry anything. i suspect and worry that majority of them that the vast majority of them will mindset just will have a similar mindset just in hollyrood. you just seem to have, you know, this term, this, this, blob where essentially this, the blob where essentially they other. i've they talk to each other. i've been scottish parliament a been the scottish parliament a number times to challenge number of times to challenge some things and the some of the things and the people are sitting amongst you, the the the academics and the professional is all the people are. they're like, speak are. they're like, just speak with sense to talk about with a sense to talk about vulnerability , the need to vulnerability, the need to protect people for greater safety and so on. so i don't know what's offensive. if you could just, we've only got 30 seconds or so. if you could just answer this question, how do we break the deadlock? how do we stop scotland from being continuing to be a one party state? thing that state? well a big thing that we're to do is trying to

we're trying to do is trying to explain what's going in education at the minute, because in you read the in education, as you read the head documents, any of head teacher documents, any of the , they're the documents, they're very upfront education upfront that education in scotland is now social scotland is now about social justice. it's not about education. education standards are collapsing and increasingly when they find about this, the promotion of the transgender approach, for example, the promotion of the idea of whiteness and white privilege, all of these things have now been schools. and i been established schools. and i think when they find think parents, when they find out about this, are going to be up arms this is up in arms because this is genuine, only a form of social engineering that's engineering and a dogma that's being forced down the throats of children in scotland, not just the adults . so hopefully we can the adults. so hopefully we can manage to do something . manage to do something. absolutely. sure. right. and thanks very much for joining me today. thanks very much for joining me today . the first out, i hope and today. the first out, i hope and pray space nation, but lots more to come tonight. after the break, i'm going to be talking about the relentless and ridiculous campaign against jk rowling. and i'm going have rowling. and i'm going to have some from our some more questions from our live .

and there's plenty more still to come on. free speech nation . come on. free speech nation. this week, i'm going to be speaking to a lady who was cleared this week after she was prosecuted for silently outside an abortion clinic. prosecuted for silently outside an abortion clinic . and we'll an abortion clinic. and we'll ask if the british playwriting industry is in crisis , but let's industry is in crisis, but let's get a news update first from tatiana sanchez . andrew, thank tatiana sanchez. andrew, thank you and good evening. this is the latest from the gb newsroom. lancashire police are working to identify a body that was recovered from the river wyre. it was located in the area where mother of two nicola bulley disappeared. more than three weeks ago. they're currently treating the death as unexplained and say her family has been informed of the latest

development. the home secretary suella braverman described the news as heartbreaking and distressing form . detective distressing form. detective chief inspector mike neville says the post—mortem examination might not give us information . might not give us information. what happened ? there'll be a what happened? there'll be a formal identification of the body. obviously if it is, nicola has been in the room for a, you know, three weeks or more than three weeks. but what they what whether the post—mortem can ever tell whether entered tell us whether she entered deliberately or by accident. perhaps we'll never know who's been to which speculation in this case. of course, we've all sorts of ghouls going down there , and it calls it even more hard to a family. so the sooner the police can get the post—mortem when they id done, i'm sure they'll be keen to get that information out there. a cabinet minister says boris johnson's intervention on the northern ireland protocol is not unhelpful because there's still plenty of work to be done. mr. johnson is warning that scrapping the bill would be a

great mistake and that comes a day after rishi sunak , the day after rishi sunak, the european commission president said they made very good progress on fixing problems with the post—brexit trading arrangements. the protocol bill introduced under boris gives the uk the right to ignore eu rules and the leader of the house of commons, penny morton, believes that gives the government a stronger marketing position. i think it's helpful to remind the eu that we have the northern ireland protocol bill. it's helpful to remind them what those expect nations are and but i would also just say that, look, there are encouraging signs that there is people are saying there's a lot more to do, but progress is made. so sir keir starmer says under no circumstances will labour do a deal with the snp. addressing a party conference in edinburgh , party conference in edinburgh, he urged scottish voters to put their faith in labour in the wake of nicola sturgeon's resignation . sir keir says he

resignation. sir keir says he can bring the change scotland needs in. can bring the change scotland needsin.the can bring the change scotland needs in. the tide is turning on the tories and the snp and the musical programme for the king's coronation has been revealed. an anthem written by composer andrew lloyd webber . it's one of andrew lloyd webber. it's one of 12 new pieces to be played dunng 12 new pieces to be played during the ceremony. best known for musicals, including the phantom of the and jesus christ superstar , he said he's superstar, he said he's incredibly honoured to have been asked. greek orthodox music will also be on the playlist , a also be on the playlist, a personal request by king charles as a tribute to his late father . tv online and the abc plus radio. this is gb news now is back to free speech nation . back to free speech nation. welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew doyle enoughis nation with me andrew doyle enough is enough. the hysteria over j.k. rowling has been out overj.k. rowling has been out of control for quite some time.

but whereas such outbursts usually die down over time, this one appears to be interminable. so on thursday, the new york times published a piece by pamela paul called in defence of j.k. rowling. this was one of those rare attempts by the publication to dial down the hysteria to out what hysteria to point out what rowling actually said , as rowling has actually said, as opposed what armies of online opposed to what armies of online activists collectively activists have collectively imagined that she has said. but the response has unhinged . the response has been unhinged. because if your very identity is so anchored to the fantasies that you created, it's very difficult to let go . so difficult to let them go. so whenever engaged in whenever i'm engaged in discussions about j.k. rowling's supposed transphobia on social media, i always ask for her detractors to quote a single transfer . a detractors to quote a single transfer. a big thing that she's said, if she's really the monster they claim she is. that should right? but they should be easy, right? but they never can a transphobic never can provide a transphobic quotation . because there aren't quotation. because there aren't any. what they'll do instead is post a link to a video by an influencer whose committed to a bad faith interpretation of her words, will claim the words, or who will claim the power death. her secret power to seek death. her secret thoughts. or they'll

thoughts. either that or they'll change the definition of transphobia entirely so they can justify smear. take a look justify the smear. take a look at this post by a writer for the huffington post. he says , let's huffington post. he says, let's make really simple and make this really simple and clear. you claim, as j.k. clear. if you claim, as j.k. rowling does, that trans women should in spaces should not be in spaces designated women. are designated for women. you are saying trans are not saying that trans women are not really that really women. that is transphobic. shouldn't transphobic. we shouldn't support people who are transphobic. so if you have nothing whatsoever against trans people and you support equal rights for all. but you also understand women's safety understand that women's safety depends recognition depends upon the recognition of the biological sex. the reality of biological sex. yes. transphobic . this yes. clear, transphobic. this activist has decided that you hate people who don't . in fact hate people who don't. in fact hate. no more discussion because he knows your private thoughts better than you do. the thing is, some us are still interested in evidence and rationality and the value of not interpreting your opponent's views in the most uncharitable way. some of us adults. in other words , us are adults. in other words, none of this would matter. of course , was just a few course, if it was just a few crazed anime avatars on social media. it's not just media. but it's not just a couple of days before the new

york times op ed defending rowling. there been an open rowling. there had been an open letter by members of the paper's staff accusing their colleagues of bias. one of the of anti—trans bias. one of the signatories to this letter, a well—known writer and journalist called gretchen felker martin, posted tweet expressing a posted a tweet expressing a desire to slit jake rowling's throat. and, of course , rowling throat. and, of course, rowling continues to receive endless death and rape threats on a daily basis from people who claim to be on right side of history. well, if they're right, the future looks grim. and then the future looks grim. and then the human rights campaign and lgbtq+ civil rights body based in washington, dc with over 800,000 followers on twitter, posted a thread which made the following extraordinary claims . following extraordinary claims. j.k. rowling apparently has compared being trans to therapy. has it questioned hormone replacement therapy ? despite replacement therapy? despite lacking any medical expertise and incorporated transphobic plots into her mystery novels. but this is what she has actually said about conversion therapy. she said many , myself therapy. she said many, myself included, believe we are

watching a new kind of conversion therapy for young gay people who are being set on a lifelong path of medicalisation that result in the loss of that may result in the loss of their fertility or full their fertility and or full sexual function . and what does sexual function. and what does she well as hannah she mean by this? well as hannah bond's book revealed , bond's new book has revealed, between 80 to 90% of adolescents who were referred to the tavistock paediatric gender clinic was same sex attracted ? clinic was same sex attracted? there is a strong correlation between gender nonconformity and youth and being gay in adult life. members of the staff , the life. members of the staff, the tavistock itself, joked that soon there would be no gay people left , and whistleblowers people left, and whistleblowers revealed that homophobia was endemic . j.k. rowling is not in endemic. j.k. rowling is not in any way comparing being trans to conversion therapy. she is saying that young gay people are at risk of being transitioned to better accord with society's heterosexual expectations. she isn't , in fact, talking about isn't, in fact, talking about trans people at all. here's what she actually thinks about trans people. i respect every trans person's right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. i'd march

with you if you were discriminated against on the bafis discriminated against on the basis of being trans. she also said, of course, trans rights are human rights and of course trans lives matter . and trans lives matter. and i believe the majority of trans identified people not only pose zero threat to others , but are zero threat to others, but are vulnerable for all the reasons outlined to trans people need deserve protection. wow what a hateful transphobe . and what hateful transphobe. and what about the hrc claim that rowling has questioned hormone replacement therapy despite lacking medical expertise? well, i presume that talking about her concerns about puberty blockers now the case review into the treatment of children with gender dysphoria emphasise that there is a lack of evidence to justify the of these drugs justify the use of these drugs which are always which are almost always a precursor to cross sex hormones. experts studies are finding more and more evidence of potential health risks of puberty blockers. so if it's rowling's lack of medical expertise that disqualify her from commenting on them, don't worry , because on them, don't worry, because there plenty of experts there are plenty of experts available are reaching the

available who are reaching the same conclusions. and then there's claim that rowling same conclusions. and then therincorporated that rowling same conclusions. and then therincorporated transphobic g has incorporated transphobic plots into her mystery novel as well. this isn't true in the least. when her book, troubled blood , came out in 2020, written blood, came out in 2020, written under name of robert galbraith, a review in the telegraph happened to say that the killer at one point disguises himself in a woman's coat. q the predictable outcry, the pinknews run with j.k. rowling's latest bookis run with j.k. rowling's latest book is about a murderous, cis man who dresses as a woman to kill his victims. man who dresses as a woman to kill his victims . except it kill his victims. except it wasn't at all. top tip for literary critics always read the book before attempting to criticise it, because that will prevent you from looking like an idiot. next on the threat of lies by the human rights campaign. we had this in 2019, rolling defended a researcher who was fired for being transphobic. the end result, a court agreed , and the researcher court agreed, and the researcher was not reinstated . except that was not reinstated. except that wasn't the end result at all. this is a reference to the case of my forstater a tax expert who sued her employer for

discrimination. in june 2021. the decision of the tribunal in the first charter case was overturned by the high court, with the judge ruling that her views were protected in law by the act. for a start, the equality act. for a start, it wasn't being transphobic at all, she was expressing the legally belief that legally protected belief that biological is real . so not biological sex is real. so not only as the hrc got its tweet entirely backwards , it's also entirely backwards, it's also repeated a libellous claim against for starters, it. and you would think a human rights organisation might want to get this kind thing right. well, this kind of thing right. well, they tweet so they deleted that tweet now, so that's it? but let's that's okay. isn't it? but let's move to the us's next tweet. move on to the us's next tweet. this is just as libellous this one is just as libellous and it hasn't deleted. this and it hasn't been deleted. this says her transphobia and it hasn't been deleted. this sa'a her transphobia and it hasn't been deleted. this sa'a new her transphobia and it hasn't been deleted. this sa'a new levels1er transphobia and it hasn't been deleted. this sa'a new levels in' transphobia and it hasn't been deleted. this sa'a new levels in 2020 phobia and it hasn't been deleted. this sa'a new levels in 2020 by)bia to a new levels in 2020 by publishing a manifesto to defending her transphobic beliefs and disparaging the community. yeah, that didn't happen. community. yeah, that didn't happen . what actually happened happen. what actually happened is that rowling being bombarded with rape and death threats for liking a tweet by a gender critical feminist. and so she wrote a measured and compassionate statement on her website to outline her actual views. she reiterated her support for the rights of trans

people and calmly explained that her experiences of domestic abuse had made it clear to her that feminists were right to raise concerns about the threat to single sex spaces that may result from gender self—identify . not transphobic manifesto at . not a transphobic manifesto at all. just sensible and liberal reflections on the importance of safeguarding recent revelations of male prisoners being housed in female prisons have , of in female prisons have, of course, vindicated that point of view. and then we have this from the hrc. rowling apparently mocked the use of the phrase people who menstruate. ignoring the fact that not everyone who menstruate. identifies as a woman. well she wasn't ignoring that at all. she was making the point that there has been a concerted effort to erase the word woman in favour of misogynistic sounding phrases such as people who bleed . and such as people who bleed. and administrators for the hrc, a woman an identity category. for most of us. it's a biological reality. again evidence of transphobia. there and finally, as the piece de resistance of this thread of lies and

distortions, we have this . in distortions, we have this. in 2021, rowling proceeded to criticise police for using a person's correct gender identity in their reporting, and they appended a screenshot of rowling's tweet in which she pointed out that the victims of rape were being told that their attackers were women, that a rapist with a penis was a woman. if he said he was, and that the victim in, police must victim in, the police must respect the gender identity of the of criminals. the worst kind of criminals. rowling was simply pointing out how orwellian this is, and she was right. it's about hating trans people . it's about trans people. it's about prioritising victims of rape over the hurt feelings of their rapists. castle megan was fond of saying that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence . the extraordinary evidence. the extraordinary claim that rowling , a known claim that rowling, a known philanthropist and campaigner for equal rights, is actually a frothing fascist bigot who hates people because of how they choose to identify me is so far off the mark that it doesn't really require much further discussion. the burden of proof is always on those who make the claim, and they have been asked

endlessly produce evidence of endlessly to produce evidence of rowling's transphobia. and they failed again and again. the conclusion ? well, j.k. rowling conclusion? well, j.k. rowling is not a transphobe and anyone who claims otherwise simply doesn't know what they're talking about. it's about time these fantasists were with the contempt that they deserve . from contempt that they deserve. from the audience and a just. i know you've spoken a lot about the j.k. rowling, but i am getting to the end of my tether here. we keep saying what is your evidence for these claims? they never have any. and yet this seems to dominate discourse. what's absolutely. what's going on? absolutely. well, grateful well, first of all, i'm grateful for there, for that monologue there, because i into because now when i get into these debates, just going to these debates, i'm just going to send them that clip right. and so i thank you for saving me. i mean you. well, you've mean it for you. well, you've saved a lot of time, so i'm saved me a lot of time, so i'm very grateful for that. but it is so frustrating and seeing the abuse, rape for us, the abuse, the rape for us, the death threats that gets is death threats that she gets is part of what has certainly brought this do

brought me into this course. do you looking going like wow. you looking is going like wow. okay. this doesn't say like why you looking is going like wow. oishe this doesn't say like why you looking is going like wow. oishe this doeso't say like why you looking is going like wow. oishe this doeso't say hate vhy is she getting so much hate here and then you look it, you go, she hasn't said anything. this is mental. rape and death is mental. these rape and death threats unforgivable. threats would be unforgivable. anyway, course. anyway, of calling, of course. but, absolutely. but, you know, absolutely. it's so opposite of you young so the opposite of you young people are so captured with this idea that she is this bigot and they it's like the narrative for them has been so ingrained and so formed. they cannot step out of it for a second. they cannot . you show them evidence like, please just read this thing and they it's like they're blind to it. absolutely not to anyone. it's interesting you mention that, a colleague of that, because a colleague of mine made the point mine had actually made the point that her son had bought that her son had recently bought hogwarts legacy. you know, the computer game. and all his friends we're friends said, no, we're boycotting she's evil. boycotting that. she's evil. it's bit. why are it's like just a bit. why are our just not taught our kids just not being taught to and at evidence to think and look at evidence and going on? well, kids and analyse going on? well, kids are notoriously so are notoriously gullible, so this is why ideologues try and try and grab the kids. you know, once you're as old as me and josh were sort of two to, gee ,

josh were sort of two to, gee, did you to believe anything ? and did you to believe anything? and we know that, you know, the world is made up of grey areas rather these sort of pristine ideal ideals. but there is no grey area when it comes to love. she is a person who's one, but she actually price herself gave away her money from being a billionaire. she's only a million because she's given . million because she's given. that's not the thing . but the that's not the thing. but the point is, though, you know, it's undeniable . whatever you think undeniable. whatever you think of her views, she is a philanthropist she's not a transfer. again just a smidgen of evidence would help, right? yeah, no, absolutely. can ever nobody ever provide any any nobody can ever provide any any evidence. there's lots of evidence. there's lots of evidence her nice evidence of her saying nice stuff about trans people, which, you know, to honest, lost you know, to be honest, has lost her me. okay. her some points from me. okay. well always the contrarian well leo, always the contrarian . let's get some more questions from the audience. got a question from jenny. where question here from jenny. where is block . why is jenny from? the block. why why is the tavistock gender clinic still operating? yeah, this is interesting. we've had the cas review sort of saying that the tavistock is not safe

for children, but they're still being referred for puberty. blockers at this gender clinic and what just again , it goes and what just again, it goes back to the evidence, right? we've got the report from the interim report. and it was made absolutely clear and this, kate. and was very close and they said it was very close by spring, it takes six by spring, but it takes six months when they officially months from when they officially announced it. so if they announced it. so even if they announced it. so even if they announce it's still announce it tomorrow, it's still going out there giving. going to be out there giving. these have this these puberty blockers have this these effects for these terrible side effects for children them until children and to them until at least after summer. and we least after the summer. and we keep these stories now keep hearing these stories now of when they of people who when them they said, like they had one or two appointments and all of a sudden they're people they're on medication. people say happens. got say it never happens. i've got this my life i like. this person in my life i like. it's of like type it's sort of like niece type typos, like 21 years old. she's like, they they he is like, no, they they have he is this therapy is so and i said, no, this stuff that's i'm cautiously said, look it cautiously said, look here it says this is reviewed in says here this is reviewed in the love the the guardian. you love the guardian. you? this guardian. don't you? look, this is oh, no, is what they say. oh, no, i can't they won't look at the evidence. yeah, it's very frustrating. go, frustrating. it's got to go, isn't it? the tavistock? no. you joking. i mean, this is a

wonderful thing. i'd be surprised if wasn't funded surprised if it wasn't funded by. people in right, by. by people in the right, because sterilising because it's sterilising the children liberal parents and children of liberal parents and in a couple of generations and a couple of generations will have no liberals. this is going to be fantastic . okay. interesting fantastic. okay. interesting spin on that. let's get a question now from matthew . question now from matthew. where's matthew? thank you. my question is, should the words male and female be phased out of these societies? yes there was a collaboration of scientists in the and canada had to be the uk and canada had to be canada. they've suggested that the female the words made and female should be completely in be phased out completely in science. i think that these ideas reinforce the idea that sex is binary. hey, scientists, it is. i mean, what the hell? yeah. and some of the phrases, the terms, the bring in to replace male and female . so male replace male and female. so male is in producing and female is 999 is in producing and female is egg producing. well, here's an egg. i am a woman. i produced an 999 egg. i am a woman. i produced an egg . now do it at your book. egg. now do it at your book. that's where it comes from right 7 that's where it comes from right ? look, again, like we come, we

discuss these issues quite a lot. but when it comes to scientists saying this, that's when i really think we lost me. i don't want to, but essentially, if you think that sex is binary and you kill yourself should yourself, i think you should have scientists isn't have your scientists isn't binary have your binary used to have your scientist licence revoked? it was science through was just science through the medical. sex is crazy, medical. i say now sex is crazy, but it's not. but it's not just men and women and other words they're non—native they're saying non—native species. that's like species. like that's like i suppose a non—native species is now immigrant because now anti immigrant because you've spiders coming you've got these spiders coming over . it's hard hiding in over here. it's hard hiding in our bananas . over here. it's hard hiding in our bananas. it's madness . our bananas. it's madness. that's pretty scary. i mean, you had as well in new zealand there was a case where the government wanted to introduce indigenous ways of knowing into the science curriculum. so you would, you would learn about evolution and that you that kind of thing, but you would learn about the would also learn about the goddess the sky produces goddess of the sky who produces rain through teeth and that rain through her teeth and that would be taught on a par. rain through her teeth and that would be taught on a par . yeah. would be taught on a par. yeah. and someone complain when and when someone complain when an said, actually, an academic said, actually, this is weird. yeah they all is a bit weird. yeah they all hounded him and he got fired and

it's patronising and it's so patronising and reductive to think that, you know, sort pointing at the know, the sort pointing at the indigenous and saying, indigenous people and saying, oh, this is what this is what you and when actually you think. and when actually indigenous are probably, indigenous people are probably, you know, got you know, i've got a subscription the economist subscription to the economist and i browse the internet. i know the procedure that produces precipitation . yeah, exactly. precipitation. yeah, exactly. you had the met office other day in new zealand invoking. no, in new zealand invoking. oh no, in new zealand invoking. oh no, in invoking the gods in australia, invoking the gods of sky. no, tell us the of the sky. no, just tell us the weather, for god's sake. anyway i've question from i've got a question from michael. where is michael. good evening, andrew. is unconscious bias really load of bias training really a load of nonsense, nonsense ? yeah. well, nonsense, nonsense? yeah. well, yeah, is. this is a leading yeah, it is. this is a leading figure in the civil rights movement. colin press god has rubbished the use of unconscious bias training , saying it's not bias training, saying it's not the way to tackle racial injustice. and it's interesting when you get these kind of figures this of figures who have this sort of pedigree amongst civil rights, and ones coming out and they're the ones coming out saying, actually, calm saying, actually, we to calm down this. it's down about this. so it's interesting unconscious interesting as well. unconscious bias been roundly bias training has been roundly discredited any discredited as having any utility by all of the utility whatsoever by all of the studies into it. it does it

simply doesn't do anything. in fact, of the study fact, a couple of the study showed that what they tend to do is make the workplace more racist. so why we saying racist. so why are we saying what's happened here? but isn't it ? again, come it not so mean? again, we come back given that back to evidence given that unconscious bias training doesn't anything. doesn't really do anything. i mean, a teacher friend mean, i had a teacher friend contact saying, oh, contact me recently saying, oh, i'm unconscious bias i'm in an unconscious bias session then on to it's session then on what to do. it's all nonsense and i said, you know, stand up and say, this is nonsense. challenge it. but of course wouldn't. course you wouldn't. well, i did. i i did an unconscious did. i went i did an unconscious bias and time i bias training. and every time i asked a question, there was if might so, insightful. might say so, very insightful. it that's really it was like, oh, that's really interesting. we'll talk interesting. yeah, we'll talk about the and then about that at the end. and then of course that session never happened. they never get happened. i never they never get to it. and they because because it's we have it's what we also have to remember people who are remember is the people who are doing unconscious bias doing this unconscious bias training. them. training. it's only for them. yeah. have the yeah. so they don't have the answers to all they have to answers to it. all they have to do is just go, here's a bunch of articles, here's a load of baloney and you just kind of go, oh, i get paid a and oh, sorry, i get paid a lot and they paid. and it comes down they get paid. and it comes down to faith, doesn't it? this is

kind a religion, you kind of like a religion, you know, this point. they're know, at this point. they're peddung know, at this point. they're peddling something doesn't peddling something that doesn't have reality. and have any basis in reality. and they're get lot for they're doing get paid a lot for it is absolutely a religion. but i that i mean, it's something that actually companies a lot actually costs companies a lot of in terms of of money, not just in terms of paying of money, not just in terms of paying for each other, departments and trainers come departments and trainers to come in paying to find in and then paying to find people deal the people and deal with the processes happen. processes that happen. when people accused having people are accused of having some bias or committing some sort of bias or committing a microaggression. lost a microaggression. but the lost productivity fact that productivity and the fact that you who you want got you can't hire who you want got to hire who who, you to hire somebody who who, you know, certain identitarian know, takes certain identitarian boxes. think , you know, boxes. and so i think, you know, a could really sort a recession could really sort this this is why i'm this out. and this is why i'm trying crash the economy. you trying to crash the economy. you are best to do so. are doing your best to do so. well, let's is right well, let's hope lee is right about that. we've got to go for about that. we've got to go for a break now. but after the break on free speech nation, i'm going to be joined by vaughan to be joined by isabel vaughan spruce, who was cleared this week after, being prosecuted for silently an silently praying outside an abortion go abortion clinic. don't go anywhere .

welcome back to free speech nation. isabel vaughan spruce was acquitted last week after she was prosecuted for silently praying outside an abortion clinic. vaughan spruce, director of anti—abortion group march for life uk, was searched and arrested outside the bpa robert clinic in king's norton , clinic in king's norton, birmingham, last december. her arrest sparked protests with her supporters saying she was being prosecuted for thought crime. father sean goff was also arrested on criminal charge and he was also cleared. this week, isabel joins me now along with jeremiah wright, an ebola from her legal representatives, adf , her legal representatives, adf, uk. isabel, can i come to you first? how do you feel now that you've been acquitted ? delighted you've been acquitted? delighted i'm really pleased. i've been acquitted and completely vindicated of any wrongdoing. it's just a shame i had to come to this. well, a few people have said the process ends up becoming the punishment, but i had to go through quite a

humiliating arrest on a public street and to be locked in a police cell and interrogated . police cell and interrogated. just to find out that, yes, i am allowed to think in my own head what i want to think. so, yeah, it is a shame that it took that long and i had to have that process to get to this conclusion. did you have any sense that this these kind of repercussions might ensue once you in that area you were standing in that area that they to out that they considered to be out of bounds ? well, i mean, there's of bounds? well, i mean, there's always been this and went to the lengths that they did. i mean, clearly, you've got a very confused spirit in place . in confused spirit in place. in fact, all of these spots around abortion centres, the public space protection orders, how very confusing language and incredibly far reaching, saying that, you know, not just protesting that's banned, but counselling and prayer is banned in certain forms. so, yes , that in certain forms. so, yes, that is very confusing for people. but i did not think that my private thoughts were going to be censored . jeremiah, can

be censored. jeremiah, can i bnng be censored. jeremiah, can i bring you in now? this is an interesting one, isn't it? because had the protests , had because had the protests, had protesters been standing outside harassing people who were going to the clinic, causing criminal damage, there would be laws in place to prevent that, and rightly so , presumably. but rightly so, presumably. but that's not what the. that wasn't the case here, was it ? no, it the case here, was it? no, it wasn't. this is the first content based crime that we have seen in the united kingdom . it's seen in the united kingdom. it's the first time the laws have been created to criminalise the content . the subject matter, as content. the subject matter, as opposed to the manner or the behaviour that's been prosecuted. and so what we we're in right now is the first time the fundamental rights are being targeted, based solely on the issue at hand. the topic. targeted, based solely on the issue at hand. the topic . so issue at hand. the topic. so what we have is the a—word , the what we have is the a—word, the

abortion subject being criminalised purely because it relates to abortion , the obvious relates to abortion, the obvious face protection order refers to any approval or disapproval related to abortion, including prayer and council. do so theoretically speaking, if isabel somebody else was standing next to isabel just standing next to isabel just standing in one place of protest about climate change, then that person wouldn't have been arrested as well. so this is a subject based criminalisation based on the ideas. and of course, that's very dangerous. now, i've had people on this show who come from either sides of this argument, the sort of pro—life and pro—choice, but actually it's not really about that debate, is it? this is much more about a freedom of speech issue and in fact, a freedom of thought issue. i mean, isabel do you feel very much that they were effectively trying to control what goes on inside your head and that that's what they were trying to enforce here ? were trying to enforce here? yeah, it's it seems very strange. i've i've really no

idea why they were going to the lengths that they were . so lengths that they were. so i didn't catch the beginning of your question. i think there was a little bit. do you think, though, that this is this this action was taken really to try to stymie debate in some way to stymie the debate in some way to stymie the debate in some way to sort of sort of put people off from even protesting in any way . yeah, i did find it way. yeah, i did find it interesting that i was charged with engaging in an act which was intimidating of service users. now, bearing in mind i was there when the abortion centre was closed, i was only that when it was closed . it does that when it was closed. it does beg the question who's intimidating? who and i have thought that all along that i seem to be put under intimidation with the work i'm doing. i certainly felt it was quite intimidating. the police and the whole process. i had to go through. and yet i'm the one being accused intimidating . being accused of intimidating. and you know, the work i've and yet, you know, the work i've done has helped hundreds of women no women. i clearly have no intention and never have intimidated women . that's the intimidated women. that's the last thing that i would be

doing. but perhaps i did find offensive. could you explain where exactly where in relation to the clinic and what exactly you were doing in that might help to understand ? yeah. help people to understand? yeah. so i was quite near the abortion centre , probably a few metres centre, probably a few metres from the abortion centre. as i say, it was closed, there was, there was nobody using the abortion centre at that time and i was silently praying in my head just standing with my back to the head , not blocking the to the head, not blocking the street, not talking to anyone at all in any way, not engaging in any conversations and holding hands, not offering any leaflets. just standing there silently praying in my head. not even manifesting that prayer in any way. jeremiah this does beg the question doesn't it? what on earth were they thinking pursuing this prosecution ? if pursuing this prosecution? if what isabel says is true , and what isabel says is true, and i've no reason to believe that it is, and she's standing there just praying silently. how could they possibly think to justify these actions ? they were quite

these actions? they were quite right to ask, what were they thinking? it's the first thought prosecution that i'm certainly aware of in in western europe, if not the world, because this if not the world, because this if like i said earlier, if somebody was next to isabel and she didn't admit that she was praying in relation to the subject of abortion, then she simply wouldn't have been prosecuted . and the reason why prosecuted. and the reason why this is a crucial issue is because . the right to freedom of because. the right to freedom of thought is protected in both domestic and international law as an absolute two rights. it's not like freedom of speech or the right to privacy, which has to be balanced against other rights. freedom of thought is an absolute rights that must be protected. i cannot be penalised by any means . protected. i cannot be penalised by any means. so what we have is policing, acting police officers, acting on the basis of complainants , rather than complainants, rather than considering whether or not the

individual who's been complained about has any individual liberty thatis about has any individual liberty that is rightfully being exercised. and so, of course , exercised. and so, of course, when acting on the complaint, even if the issue relates to the absolute right to freedom of thought , they go ahead to thought, they go ahead to penalise the thoughts in question rather than considering whether or not the thought was lawful. well, thank you both for your time. i really appreciate it. isabel vaughan's spruce and jeremiah incandela, thank you very much . so after the break on very much. so after the break on free speech nation, the telegraph's a theatre critic. dominic cavendish will be here to tell us why he thinks british playwright sting is in crisis. see in a minute.

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle is

british playwrights are facing a crisis telegraph theatre critic dominic cavendish wrote an article this week in which he outlined his reasons that he thinks that the threats to our dramatists are greater than even dramatists are greater than ever. dominic cavendish says arts cuts anxieties arts council cuts anxieties about being cancelled and scripts stuck in development. are placing a thriving part of british cultural life under threat. i'm delighted to say dominic cavendish joins me today . the show . . welcome to the show. fascinating article, by the way , can we start with this idea about arts council funding and the extent to which new creatives are dependent on money, well, yeah, money, basically? well, yeah, it's case. it's always been the case. there's always whinging there's always been whinging about there's about funding cuts and there's always element of sort always been an element of sort of back and forth about how much more much more money they need, how much better the economy and the ecology of this would be with more arts council funding. but i think sort of bombshell think the big sort of bombshell really happened november when really happened in november when there new tranche there was a sort of new tranche of announcements and of funding announcements and really major, venues , the really major, major venues, the most prominent one. from my point of view being hampstead theatre, is a kind of very theatre, which is a kind of very prestigious, very long

established venue, established new writing venue, it's there for plus it's been there for 60 plus years. produced some of the years. it's produced some of the most eminent writers our most eminent writers of our time. michael frayn trod the boards for the post, as it were, and we've had a work from mike leigh, party. i mean , leigh, abigail's party. i mean, you just kind of list you could just kind of list lists, them all. but the lists, list them all. but the fact is this this theatre with no real explanation as far as i can work out, lost all its funding, so now scrambling funding, so it's now scrambling together of season, together a sort of season, trying put together something trying to put together something like self. i mean like its old self. but i mean it's essentially been a bit like, know, detonating like, you know, detonating a power sort of like power station. it's sort of like we're all the lights we're switching all the lights off good with, say, off you. good luck with, say, solar energy. mean, that's solar energy. i mean, that's that's a little message, i think. i mean, creatives have always complained about a lack of funding, of arts council funding, but is it case that that's getting it the case that that's getting worse? also that the idea worse? but also that the idea dunng worse? but also that the idea during cost living crisis during a cost of living crisis that you know, artists that that, you know, artists should be funded. it just doesn't prioritised. well, doesn't get prioritised. well, i think there's a there's a strange on here in strange thrust going on here in the we've met a lot the sense that we've met a lot of have campaigned and argued of us have campaigned and argued for more money go out of for more money to go out of london. so there's this london. so there's been this levelling that's levelling up agenda that's arrived times, the cost arrived the same times, the cost of crisis. there's

of living crisis. so there's a lot feeling there's a lack lot of feeling of there's a lack of sympathy in a way for artists. why should they get pubuc artists. why should they get public money? but the point of all money is to all that public money is to endow enough endow that sector with enough resource the that resource to take the risks that will create the plays and the experiences that will actually help economy. help dynamites the economy. the kind economy and you kind of creative economy and you only to look sam mendes, only have to look at sam mendes, who ran a very who ran a donmar very successfully, you successfully, went on to, you know, direct the bond films that the donmar has lost its money. and think, well, you're and you think, well, you're looking agenda, is looking at this agenda, which is levelling out, levelling up, taking money out, but look outside london but then you look outside london and you see that playhouses are also the watermill also affected. so the watermill in newbury, for example, the old and just shutting its and coliseum, just shutting its doors. isn't really doors. now so there isn't really what really is a what there isn't really is a fundamental commitment to playwriting that playwriting. the thing that we've sort of we've all been sort of cherishing, i suppose the last, you half a century at you know, half a century at least since the post since the war. what's now is war. and what's happening now is a sort of emphasis on participation, community and the arts some ways being arts. i think in some ways being co—opted in sort mission to co—opted in a sort of mission to cohere here in some vague way who we are as a nation. so there's lots of laudable sentiments about everyone's

sentiments about how everyone's creative we've got to creative and how we've got to come together. as you know, different communities and celebrate but celebrate our creativity. but somehow missing that and the somehow missing in that and the literally playwriting somehow missing in that and the lite is lly playwriting somehow missing in that and the lit

warnings, content warnings. and most are with most people are in step with that industry. sort that in the industry. they sort of well, it's not very of think, well, it's not very harmful tell people the kind harmful to tell people the kind of content of the show, but on this, you think seeing people break actually break ranks, they're actually starting has starting to say, david has saying, there's saying, you know, there's a party david edgar, talk party problem. david edgar, talk to esteemed to me. he's very esteemed playwright the nicholas playwright who did the nicholas nickleby adaptation for the rac and needs we and said, you know, it needs we need remind people the plays need to remind people the plays involve often dramatic involve conflict, often dramatic conflict. to conflict. you need people to write views and write opposing views and unpalatable only unpalatable views. and the only thing that have a thing that we'd have to have a primer on the basics of drama and, you know, in 2023, i find quite and, you know, in 2023, i find quhe so and, you know, in 2023, i find quite so there this quite alarming. so there is this sense i think with sense i think of, i think with his capture, because that sounds like a kind of like a almost like a kind of conspiracy theory because in a way, kinds of way, there are all kinds of individuals nestling within the tennis community, like individuals nestling within the tesort community, like individuals nestling within the te sort ofymmunity, like individuals nestling within the te sort of weird, ity, like individuals nestling within the te sort of weird, tangled, like individuals nestling within the te sort of weird, tangled, woolly a sort of weird, tangled, woolly embrace . yes. with embrace. yes. with good intentions becoming intentions that are becoming slowly, more more slowly, more and more constricting. i completely agree. it is agree. i don't think it is a conspiracy. i'm not talking about a long march through the institutions. i'm talking about a orthodox sea has a kind of orthodox sea that has taken probably for the very taken hold probably for the very reasons of reasons you describe a lot of good intentions, a lot of

good intentions, just a lot of groupthink can naturally groupthink it can naturally develop. that's right. develop. i think that's right. i mean, now almost time mean, you can now almost time the where you the moment where you get a little sermonising message in a play, least for in the last, play, at least for in the last, you know, as many months for me, i thought, here comes. and, i thought, here it comes. and, you did talk the now you know, i did talk to the now departing director, the departing artistic director, the royal this. they're royal court, about this. they're the of me writing. and the epicentre of me writing. and i said, i like these. these are the slightly give the things that slightly give one know, said, one pause. you know, i said, well, know, noticing well, you know, i'm noticing there more kind of message there are more kind of message plays . and she said, yeah, plays now. and she said, yeah, well, all fine this time. well, we're all fine this time. we siloed. we're all we were all siloed. we're all basically to understand basically not able to understand opposite view. opposite points of view. yes. and being and that's obviously being reflected and i reflected in the writing. and i don't want to start telling people to balance their plays because we with because then we end up with anodyne debate plays. and that struck slightly odd. yes. struck me as slightly odd. yes. and further said, well, and then i further said, well, you this you know, none of this means some good work at the royal court. said, know, court. i said, but, you know, there's i think there's a missing plays, i think in last ten years. and i in the last ten years. and i said, you know, if you wanted to write a play about critical race theory, for example, or gender, dlt, this hot button topics, dlt, all this hot button topics, would okay? the royal would that be okay? the royal court would

court you know, would you programme that if they were well written? and the assumption of course playwright course is that if a playwright does good job of the does a really good job of the play, it'll get put on. and she said, well, even if it was well written, i would i would think about because wouldn't want about it because i wouldn't want to to any to cause harm to any communities. think communities. so i think this whole as say, whole language, as you say, well—intentioned language of preventing to preventing harm is starting to encroach about encroach upon decisions about what stage. i think what appears on stage. i think a lot of young playwrights know that they're not going to get on unless certain line. that they're not going to get on unlethe certain line. that they're not going to get on unlethe message certain line. that they're not going to get on unlethe message is�*rtain line. that they're not going to get on unlethe message is clearline. that they're not going to get on unlethe message is clear that it and the message is clear that it sends the right message. and i've even spoken to people in theatre companies about theatre companies who talk about there a consensus there seems to be a consensus now that they the question, now that they ask the question, is story to tell or do is this your story to tell or do you have the lived experience necessary to tell this story that's completely anathema to the spirit, i think. the creative spirit, i think. what of that? well what do you think of that? well the end point of that the logical end point of that thinking and is beginning to thinking and it is beginning to creep in. i think it's more on social media channels, really as an of sort of outrage, like an idea of sort of outrage, like who is this next playwright to write about? my experience is that we'll with that we'll end up with playwrights simply delivering their off experience their one off lived experience play, they'll be

play, and then they'll be forgotten and typically, edgar talks about the prime playwrights as, you know, this kind of fast fashion of writers who turn up. they give their sort of the viewpoint, and then we're on to the next. and that's no way to run a career or a theatre industry. i think that's i think there is a sort of serious problem here of free thought. that's what this programme is called, theatre should be a free speech forum. it's a safe space. it's becoming a safe space. i think. and a lot of anxiety about what, what about what, you know, what people might infer or how people might offended by certain might get offended by certain pieces of work. i mean, i'm amazed. having this amazed. i mean, for having this conversation ago i conversation 20 years ago when i was starting out as a critic, we just seemed almost extraordinary. bursts of energy and this and new writing. this is a so—called in—your—face generation. were generation. yes. and they were shocking left, right and shocking people left, right and centre. unmentionable centre. the were unmentionable things it things happening on stage. it seemed baked in that seemed absolutely baked in that what was about in this what theatre was about in this country, it was lauded country, why it was so lauded abroad, was it took constant risks. wasn't afraid. and risks. it wasn't afraid. and we've now back completely we've now rode back completely from point where we're from that to a point where we're now i spoke to now having. i spoke to a playwright who is going to play

opening which opening in bath this week, which is the on the is absolutely on the on the moment, which is about cancel culture and universities and hooray him. but, know, culture and universities and ho

in free speech nation . canadian in free speech nation. canadian high school student josh alexander was arrested by

officers on the 6th of february after he entered the school in an attempt to participate in one of his four classes this term, an event where he had organised an event where he had organised a protest with the apparent intent stopping transgender intent of stopping transgender people using washroom people from using the washroom of alexander of their choice. josh alexander was originally suspended and then issued with a non disciplinary exclusion notice by the school board . and joining me the school board. and joining me now to discuss this is josh himself. josh, welcome to the show. can i ask you first, what happened that got you in trouble with the school ? hey, thank you with the school? hey, thank you for having me on. yeah. so like you had said, i had organised a protest at my school regarding the male students who had been using the female washrooms. the male students who had been using the female washrooms . now, using the female washrooms. now, this protest didn't come until i had already communicated with the principals and teachers and another female student expressed the same concern. and we were completely ignored. so i organised this protest and two days before the protest, this suspended indefinitely . and then

suspended indefinitely. and then they , they, they threatened all they, they, they threatened all they, they, they threatened all the other students and told them they wouldn't face consequences if they joined the protest. with me . anyways, i went ahead with me. anyways, i went ahead with the protest. it happened. it went very smoothly . and then went very smoothly. and then they were scheduled to welcome me back after over 20 days of school aides. and so, yeah, i had a meeting and they informed me that i was be permanently banned for two of my classes and i was only allowed speak to certain students. this is obviously a blatant disregard for my freedom of expression, for my freedom of expression, for no religion and i decided to protest that. and then if you tried to come back to go to your class and you were actually arrested, was that something that came about? because the school authorities themselves called the police ? yeah. yeah. called the police? yeah. yeah. so i was in class, so i returned and yeah, they called in two police officers and arrested me

. they strikes me as quite incredible . i mean. josh, do you incredible. i mean. josh, do you have some sense about or perhaps you can explain what was your objection? what why were you protesting the idea of people who identify as women but are not biologically female using those washrooms? what what's your thinking behind that? well, yeah, just as a as a young man, when a few female students come and address me with concern , and address me with concern, it's my duty and my obligation to take a stand and if this is a stand that aligned with my christian values, so i took it to its fullest extent and it ended up getting me put in the back of. and what is the general feeling among the student population about the protests that you were organised? i'd say it's very mixed , but i have it's very mixed, but i have a lot of haters and i have some supporters. but, uh , the supporters. but, uh, the majority of supporters are afraid to speak out on my behalf because of they've, they've watched the education system make an example to me so far. well, i have to say, just from our perspective over here in the uk, canada seems a bit out of

control when it comes to these issues insofar as it seems as though the authorities don't even want to have the discussion or to have debate about these or to have a debate about these issues. want to impose issues. they just want to impose by particular world by force one particular world view. would suggest that view. and i would suggest that being arrested is a example being arrested is a good example of agree ? yeah. of that. would you agree? yeah. so there is obviously a mainstream narrative and it's not just happening here and happening all over the world. i'm sure you're experiencing it there as well. so they're trying to silence anybody who speaks against it and especially anybody from the younger generation, because that's mainly who's under attack. and when they see something with some influence, such as myself and generation, they're and that generation, they're going to do their to going to do their best to silence. and what is their argument for having first argument for having you first exclude and then arrested? is exclude it and then arrested? is it they think you're it that they think that you're potentially causing or that potentially causing harm or that you're kind threat? you're some kind of threat? did they any indication of they give you any indication of what behind this what their thinking behind this was yeah, actually i can was? yeah, they actually i can quote the line they said. they said that they felt my presence in the building would be detrimental to the physical and

mental well—being of pupils . so mental well—being of pupils. so that's their reasoning . that's that's their reasoning. so they've said that explicitly. and when they had you suspended, did they give any reason did they give you any reason then? they very clear on then? were they very clear on that ? they they actually refused that? they they actually refused to release allegations until almost 20 days after the suspension started. and those allegations stated that i had stated that male breastfeeding is paedophilia, which i did say, and that i also said that there is only two genders in foster room that has a transgender student. so they consider that bullying . so you accept that you bullying. so you accept that you have said things that people find offensive , but your view is find offensive, but your view is that the arrest might be a step too far . oh, absolutely . that the arrest might be a step too far. oh, absolutely . i'm not too far. oh, absolutely. i'm not going to silence myself just because somebody finds it offensive . so i hope we can work offensive. so i hope we can work that out with the individual. absolutely. but i'm not going to restrict my freedom of expression. and are you able to go back to school now? is there a you can see at

a resolution that you can see at this point? no i'm out for the remainder of the year. okay. well josh, thank you so much for joining us today. really interesting to hear your story . interesting to hear your story. so it's time for social sensations. this is the part of the show that we devote to the wild world of social media. first up, comedy show southpaw , first up, comedy show southpaw, well known for its celebrity takedowns. and this week they picked on a couple of people who you find familiar. let's you may find familiar. let's have look . we are heading off. have a look. we are heading off. proud of her as a basic human right. how many more princess and his wife have to live as nightmare ? hey can you keep it nightmare? hey can you keep it down? i never heard of it. thank god. privacy? yeah. nobody gives you to just shut up and go away . i can sort . they've turned. . i can sort. they've turned. they've turn harry and meghan into canadian royalty. right. there's i thought that was a documentary . i

there's i thought that was a documentary. i mean, there's i thought that was a documentary . i mean, they have documentary. i mean, they have be mocked a lot for constantly going about the need for privacy. yeah. on oprah's show, you know obviously there is a in their books that they write and then sell for money. yeah. there is a kind of hypocrisy that surely that they just write for satire, aren't they? yeah. and south pole just it again. south pole just nails it again. yeah, always do. yeah, well, they always do. i don't they always this don't think they always do this really well, we're going to just have another look this one. have another look at this one. this is we've got more this is a we've got one more clip, believe. no, we're clip, i believe. oh, no, we're not. that's enemy. we not. sorry. that's enemy. we can't that. so we're going to can't do that. so we're going to end the show instead. listen joining us for speech joining us for free speech nation. was week when nation. this was the week when the christian became the phrase christian name became taboo. roald dahl's, a brilliant two were two best selling books were rerate 12 year old girls rerate ten and 12 year old girls found themselves facing middle aged cricket . aged transwomen at cricket. thanks panel, josh howie thanks to my panel, josh howie and and to all of my and leo kearse and to all of my guests this evening. stay tuned for the brilliant mark dolan tonight night. that is next. and by way , going to be back by the way, i'm going to be back on 11:00 for headliners that on at 11:00 for headliners that is paper preview is the nightly paper preview show where comedians take you through next through the next day's newspapers. i'm to be on. newspapers. i'm going to be on. josh to be on. leo

josh is going to be on. leo isn't so join this can be isn't so to join this can be a great show. thanks for watching. free nation . hello there free speech nation. hello there . good evening. welcome to the latest weather update from the met office. i'm jonathan vautrey. we ended the weekend on a fairly mild note and we will continue on that theme into the start of the week. at least it's due to our winds coming up from a southwesterly direction, a mild one from the atlantic, but those winds are going to be particularly brisk across northern of uk due to northern areas of the uk due to the squeeze in the ice bars underneath this pressure underneath this low pressure system. so we could see severe gales a time across scotland gales for a time across scotland overnight, across the overnight, even across the pennines, to the east of pennines, just to the east of the will be the pennines. it will be a particularly blustery night . particularly blustery night. this by this becomes accompanied by a band rain moving into band of rain moving into scotland, germany. further to the and east it will stay the south and east it will stay dry cloudy and underneath dry but cloudy and underneath that of cloud, that blanket of cloud, temperatures going temperatures are going to be holding for all of us. so holding up for all of us. so certainly start to certainly a frost free start to the working week , that the new working week, that bundle that stall bundle of rain that does stall a bit over areas of scotland. so it could prove to be a fairly

damp some damp and what day here some patches of drizzle possible elsewhere particularly across western further western locations areas further east might see a slight break in the clouds and the odd bright sunny spell. but most of us will generally see great skies. temperatures, though , still well temperatures, though, still well above average the of above average for the time of yeah above average for the time of year. highs of 14, 15 year. highs of 14, maybe 15 degrees some spots. we will degrees in some spots. we will retain the cloud for many of us throughout monday night. that first band of rain does eventually shift its way northwards into the high lands. but we get this second pulse coming in the night. coming on later on in the night. so retaining that theme as so retaining that wet theme as we tuesday here , that we start of tuesday here, that will also be accompanied by, again, some stronger winds. but generally, the stuff, the winds will stay lighter throughout tuesday and that will help the feel of things a bit. but it is going to be another grey one. if we were going of the day we were going to some of the day up in one words, cloudy, this band then start band of rain will then start shifting its way in towards the end of and into end of tuesday and into wednesday day. behind that wednesday day. and behind that we herald slight change to we herald in a slight change to our weather this northerly feed our weather. this northerly feed will just drop our temperatures

down slightly . it's not going to down slightly. it's not going to be cold, but they be exceptionally cold, but they will more towards will be moving more towards average the time of year. average for the time of year. bye bye now .

unmarked england tonight. in my big opinion , is on the verge of big opinion, is on the verge of a brexit breakthrough. ignore all the naysayers if he gets a good deal across the line this week , it will be a turning point week, it will be a turning point for premiership. boris got brexit done. rishi can make brexit done. rishi can make brexit work . my mark means guest brexit work. my mark means guest is one of the longest serving meps in parliament and he's the godfather of brexit. so bill cash life in the studio . we'll cash life in the studio. we'll discuss the northern ireland protocol , eu discuss the northern ireland protocol, eu and boris johnson in the big question was nicola sturgeon good for scotland or bad and what will her departure

mean for the next general