is anyone else mentally exhaust dead by the endless squabbling over brexit.7 it seems we're repeating the same arguments again and again and again, just as it looks like what you see is honing in on a deal with the eu over the northern ireland protocol. the very same forces that brought down his predecessor, theresa may are mobilising. there's no guarantee of support from the dup. you're a implies more than murmuring a implies a more than murmuring their discontent. i'm boris johnson . has suggested he could johnson. has suggested he could make a public intervention just as he did four years ago. so to how soon get any deal past his own party.7 or is he doomed to

the same end as theresa may.7 should the same end as theresa may? should he be? perhaps that should mean the of. you may remember her from the hit bbc podcast series i am a podcast series i am not a monster. or perhaps the front cover of the times magazine . it cover of the times magazine. it turns despite the best turns out that despite the best efforts of lawyers to efforts of her lawyers to present her as some kind of victim, she is for now still banned returning to banned from returning to britain. a win for common sense , i'd of course i , i'd say. of course i understand the argument that she should here and should be tried here and face the force of justice the full force of our justice system. but pretty clear system. but it's pretty clear that she knew, she'd that if she knew, she'd spend the of life in a prison the rest of her life in a prison cell in this she'd cell in this country, she'd never a free life, that never live a free life, that she'd treated as a pariah. she'd be treated as a pariah. she would not be so desperate to come back. so that's the point, really. and her lawyers must really. she and her lawyers must know the courts here will know that the courts here will be touch, that will be be a soft touch, that it will be very to convict her very difficult to convict her based intelligence from war based on intelligence from a war zone, and she could end up zone, and that she could end up living freely, digital i.d. living freely, that digital id. cards blair wants them. cards tony blair wants them. william hague wants them. they say this is an essential part of our revolution , our technological revolution, that without them, we'll be stuck in the dark ages. but what

do you think? i think you do you think? i don't think you have be conspiracy theorist have to be conspiracy theorist to worry about what this means for and lastly , for our privacy. and lastly, brits massively gone off brits have massively gone off much. apparently, the number of people tying the knot is the lowest record. nearly four in lowest on record. nearly four in ten in england and wales ten adults in england and wales have married or in a have never been married or in a civil is a civil partnership. is this a worrying trend or is marriage perhaps a patriarchal , perhaps a patriarchal, oppressive institution we oppressive institution that we should than happy to say should be more than happy to say goodbye to? i hope all of goodbye to? i hope not all of that to come tonight on dewbs& co emily carver. but co with me. emily carver. but first, let's get the latest news headunes first, let's get the latest news headlines holly . emily, headlines with holly. emily, thank you. good evening. and some breaking news that's come to us in the last few minutes. wales is six nations match against england on saturday will go ahead that's after strike action from welsh players over a contract dispute has been suspended. i'm laughing because emily's in the background , emily's in the background, waving her hands in the air with great glee on the news on that

one. we'll have more detail on that story in the next hour. let's bring you the rest of the news bulletin now. the defence secretary, said secretary, ben wallace, has said challenger 2 battles tanks could arrive in ukraine by the spring. he made the comments during a visit to a british army base in dorset where he watched ukrainian soldiers training on the standard british tanks. said by the military to be superior to every russian battle tank. the uk has already promised to send 40 of them to ukraine. but mr. wallace says britain could offer up additional tanks depending on the threat level and the countries defence needs . well, the prime minister today has said he'll deliver certainty, stability and clarity as he seeks a deal on a post—brexit hit arrangement for northern ireland, which she sunak held talks with northern irish business leaders today . irish business leaders today. and he faced renewed pressure to achieve a workable solution to the stalled protocol . earlier, the stalled protocol. earlier, mr. sunak told the commons intensive talks with the eu are

ongoing. i am a conservative, a brexiteer and a unionist. in any agreement that we reach needs to take all three boxes. it needs to ensure sovereignty for northern ireland and is to safeguard northern ireland's place in our union. and it needs to find practical solutions to the problems faced by people and businesses. i will be resolute in fighting for what is best for northern ireland and the united kingdom as well. sir keir starmer says labour will support any brexit trade agreement, but he criticised all the delays , he criticised all the delays, suggesting tory division was partly to blame. everyone knows the basis of this deal has been agreed for weeks , but it's the agreed for weeks, but it's the same old story. agreed for weeks, but it's the same old story . the country has same old story. the country has to wait a while . he plucks up to wait a while. he plucks up the courage to take on the malcontents . the reckless , the malcontents. the reckless, the wreckers. on his own benches . wreckers. on his own benches. but i'm here to tell him he doesn't need to worry about that. because we will put country before party and ensure

great labour for trade gets it through . now lancashire police through. now lancashire police is saying it's welcoming the forthcoming independent review into its handling of the nicola bulley case to be conducted by the college of policing. it's going to focus on the investigation and the search , as investigation and the search, as well as the release of personal information . and lancashire information. and lancashire police's communications strategy overall with the public. separately, the police regulator has launched another investigation into a welfare check carried out on ms. bully just weeks before she went missing. her body was recovered from the river while on sunday, more than three weeks after she disappeared . tesco is the latest disappeared. tesco is the latest supermarket to introduce a limit on how much fresh produce customers can buy as fruit and vegetable shortages are leaving shelves bare . the retailing shelves bare. the retailing giant joins aldi, asda and morrisons in temporarily rationing shopping with purchases of tomatoes , peppers purchases of tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers. limited to three

per customer as a precaution . per customer as a precaution. bad weather and transport problems across europe and north africa are being blamed for the disruption to supply chains with retailers warning the problems could last for weeks . retailers warning the problems could last for weeks. shemima bacon's lawyers say her case is no where near over and they'll urgently challenge today's ruling , which upholds the ruling, which upholds the decision to remove her british citizenship . the 23 year old who citizenship. the 23 year old who left the uk to join terrorist group islamic state in syria , group islamic state in syria, lost her appeal with her case dismissed on all grounds . the dismissed on all grounds. the home secretary suella braverman has welcomed the court's decision . but shamim is, lawyers decision. but shamim is, lawyers say it leaves no protection for a british child trafficked out of the uk . ambulance and health of the uk. ambulance and health workers will strike on march the eighth, with unison announcing talks with the government of failed . meanwhile, the royal failed. meanwhile, the royal college of nursing has initially paused. next week's 48 hour walkout to negotiate with the

health secretary, steve barclay . the government says a three and a half% pay rise is now affordable, but the union wants 5% above inflation. and lastly, the king has held an audience with the president of the german parliament ahead of a trip to germany later this month. king charles will become the first british monarch to address the bundestag during a state visit to the country . welcomed by bus to the country. welcomed by bus to the country. welcomed by bus to buckingham palace this afternoon , the trip will follow afternoon, the trip will follow on from a state visit to france with the queen consort at the end of march , which is to be end of march, which is due to be king charles, his first official trip abroad since his accession to throne . that's all for me to the throne. that's all for me . now i have more news for you at seven c that . at seven c that. welcomes james and co with me. emily carver stay with me until seven this evening. my panel,

joe phillips, political commentator , and ben habib, who commentator, and ben habib, who is a former brexit party mep and the ceo of first property group . as always, i want to know your thoughts on all of the topics we've got coming this evening, particularly that first one brexit. the knives seem to be out for rishi sunak before he's even delivered a deal to parliament. do you think he will be able to get it through? is he sleepwalking into the same political trap that spelled doom for his predecessor , theresa may for his predecessor, theresa may it does look like he's honing in on a deal. reportedly he's speaking with the european commission president, ursula von der leyen. but there are already more than a few signs of resistance from his euroskeptic campaigns . resistance from his euroskeptic campaigns. no guarantee of support the dup , and support from the dup, and crucially, prospect of crucially, the prospect of a pubuc crucially, the prospect of a public intervention from boris johnson. so ben , you are the johnson. so ben, you are the expert on northern ireland principles. i want to keep this interesting, exciting . i think interesting, exciting. i think rishi sunak has made a mistake by saying he's going to give mpesa say , how has he said that

mpesa say, how has he said that he's confirmed that because that was a matter of fact. he did. he did confirm that. okay. well, thatis did confirm that. okay. well, that is very interesting. i'm delighted he's doing that because he have done this because he could have done this under prerogative. powers the government has the all the authority it needs to change the protocol indeed , obviously protocol and indeed, obviously in its manner of implementation to say sorry, but he has been vague. he said they will have a say. whether that means a vote yes, no. yeah, okay. but before we go there, emily, can i just explain why it's important , the explain why it's important, the protocol, not just to northern ireland, but to the united kingdom and the reason it's important because northern important is because northern ireland part of ireland effectively is part of the eu single market for goods. that means the 300 odd regulations and laws that govern northern ireland are made in the eu and to the extent that they're varied in the future and this is the key bit to the extent those laws are varied by brussels in the future, there's new laws and those variations would apply in northern ireland. that means over a period of time

if great britain , as distinct if great britain, as distinct from northern ireland, doesn't follow those same changes in laws, northern ireland floats off away from the united kingdom and so governments of the future will have a choice. they'll have a choice between saying goodbye to northern ireland because of the protocol, because we haven't followed the same laws , or they followed the same laws, or they will align with the eu and new to brexit it. but ben, what is the solution? because what making this whole charade and that's what it appears to be a charade going back and forth. we don't ever know whether a deal is going to be made. we're told every day in the newspapers that a coming then it a deal is coming and then it never seems to materialise. what is the solution? the solution is very, simple . the border very, very simple. the border for goods should go between northern ireland and the repubuc northern ireland and the republic , where a border already republic, where a border already exists . a border recognised by exists. a border recognised by the good friday agreement. and if maros sefcovic, the eu negotiator later, is in good

faith when he says he can create an invisible border for trade purposes between great britain and northern ireland, then it's equally possible to apply that invisible border between northern ireland and the republic. northern ireland and the repubuc.the northern ireland and the republic. the volume of goods between great britain and northern ireland is five times that of the goods between northern ireland and the republic. so the natural place to have the border is on the island of ireland. that's where it should be. that's where it should always have been. and it was weaponized literally. i use the word advisedly, the border issue was weaponised by leo varadkar, by the republic, by the eu to get a grappling hook into british cork to prevent us from being genuinely able to move away and become an independent, sovereign nation , independent, sovereign nation, making laws for ourselves . they making laws for ourselves. they know it prevents us from diverging from the eu and that's why they've done it. and rishi sunak just wants it. have you got another question and rushes 7 got another question and rushes ? sunak hasn't got the courage

to do the right thing. i know that because all the ni gauci actions are taking place with my sefcovic. maros sefcovic is under express instructions from the commission. the eu commission , not to change the commission, not to change the legal parameters of the protocol . all he can do is play with the manner of its implementation . so manner of its implementation. so when rishi sunak gets up in parliament and says he's a conservative, a brexit and a unionist, he's not being he's being well, he's being economic co with the truth. his government lawyers were up against my law is in court arguing that northern ireland is arguing that northern ireland is a foreign country. we've had a british prime minister instructing lawyers in court to argue that part of the united kingdom is a foreign country. well the way you want it to be, yeah, i would say that was barnstorming and that's something that's very often there. but i do sympathise with what ben is saying and i understand most of the arguments that you are making , but it

that you are making, but it seems to me that this is so difficult for any conservative politician to deal with. does there need to be some compromise if there has to be a role for the ecj to continue as some kind of arbiter, is that a price that we can pay? i think well, several things on the political front. i feel like this is groundhog day and as you said in the introduction, you know, it did for theresa may rishi sunak is stuck with the same problem that he inherited from boris johnson. also economical with the truth on so many issues . but the truth on so many issues. but i think you know, he's got two choices. either he stands up to the dup and his rebels and says , we're going ahead with this . , we're going ahead with this. you know, if you want to resign, that's fine, go in as an independent. because i think the other thing is that, you know, he's a he doesn't need to go to the commons to have a vote. there is no requirement, as ben just said, there is no need for the commons to vote on this. but if he's saying, oh, parliamentarians will have a say

and in order to get it through parliament on what would be a purely cosmetic thing, he would have to then rely on the votes of the labour party, which would then make him look very weak to his own party. but bear in mind, unbending and i were talking about this before we came in the studio . you know, we're i8 studio. you know, we're 18 months away from a general election and possibly a different government. so to do certainly a different government, you know , and the do government, you know, and the do you government, you know, and the do you pay ' government, you know, and the do you pay , you know, who are you pay, you know, who are interested , oxygen, to say the interested, oxygen, to say the very least , are getting to the very least, are getting to the point where they're running out of road because if they can't come to some comfort , miles, come to some comfort, miles, with this government , well, the with this government, well, the next government might be less supportive . and don't forget, supportive. and don't forget, there is huge pressure to get something done before april when joe biden is supposed to be coming over. and that is the anniversary of the good friday agreement. so there's pressure on all sides. and i think, you know, if rishi sunak wants to face to his rebels, well , you

face up to his rebels, well, you know, then he's got to try it . know, then he's got to try it. very many people who would be happy to see hold so many people. i'm asking you, why do so many people in northern ireland take such a completely different view to you on the on the protocol ? well, i on the on the protocol? well, i mean , you experiencing it mean, you experiencing it northern ireland is made up of two groups of people , catholics two groups of people, catholics and protestants and nationalists and protestants and nationalists and unionists . and but by the and unionists. and but by the way, not all catholics are nationalists, not all protestants are unionist, but there is there is a division of opinion in northern ireland. but the good friday agreement and it's very important to understand, is the good friday agreement settled, the issue. northern ireland is part of the united kingdom. the east west dimension in the good friday

agreement is given. that's the dimension between northern ireland and great britain is given every bit as much importance as the north—south dimension between northern ireland and the republic and effectively what happened in 1998 was republic giving up ? 1998 was republic giving up? it's its demand that northern ireland become part of the repubuc ireland become part of the republic of ireland without a plebiscite in northern ireland and what we're having here, what is happening now is northern ireland is being ripped out of the united kingdom without that plebiscite in breach of the good friday agreement. it's subject to foreign laws made by foreign legislature , enforced by a legislature, enforced by a foreign court without any cross—community consent in northern ireland. and by the way, the government had to surreptitiously change aspects of the of the of the northern ireland act 1998 in order to foist the protocol on northern ireland. so the government's got sort of constitutional blood on

its hands, if you like . it's its hands, if you like. it's a slightly technical area , but in slightly technical area, but in summary , emily, it's critically summary, emily, it's critically important because the eu is going to use this to prevent the united kingdom from becoming an independent, genuinely independent, genuinely independent country. and you said , you know, it's very said, you know, it's very difficult on that point because we see time and perhaps you'd like to come on say something on this. we see that the polls are very much changing when it comes to brexit. people aren't happy with the way it's going . you with the way it's going. you would argue that that's because it hasn't been yet. it it hasn't been done yet. it hasn't been part of the hasn't been done. part of the united kingdom is left behind. the mood has simply shift. i think don't believe any think they don't believe any government most of government can make the most of it. the mood has shifted it. i think the mood has shifted among many . it. i think the mood has shifted among many. if one believes poll amongst people who voted for brexit and the real reason i think for that is because there was never a plan . there were was never a plan. there were a lot of slogans. now let's not go over whether or not brexit is a goodidea over whether or not brexit is a good idea or a bad idea because people will have their own views. but the idea that boris

johnson had got an oven ready deal , he johnson had got an oven ready deal, he hadn't even johnson had got an oven ready deal , he hadn't even plucked deal, he hadn't even plucked a chicken . you know what? i have a chicken. you know what? i have a bit more sympathy for boris johnson over the deal, because at the time there was there was so much difficulty, so much pressure . calls for first pressure. calls for first a referendum. so you want to put your your your your right. emily, there were but then he won an 80 seat majority . and you won an 80 seat majority. and you know, the job of being in government, the office to which you have spent your life aspiring to be the prime minister it requires patience , minister it requires patience, attention to detail and dealing with those pressures and saying we're not going to do it until we've got it right now. you know, nothing has transpired. the people were promised. and of course, people who voted believing what boris johnson and his actually out said. nobody wants to be told that they've been scammed. and i think the same thing's going to happen again . we're going to have a bit again. we're going to have a bit of a fudge of a deal. the fudge

will be you're right, there will be a fudge and that's why i say rishi sunak's being economical with the truth, because he's going to it. and the going to fudge it. and the compromise won't be a compromise. it'll be a concession from the united kingdom . we want we've done kingdom. we want all we've done since we voted to leave that wretched institute, and that is the eu is give concession after concession after concession. we've had a series of split tory government , half remainers, half government, half remainers, half brexiteers unable to get a vision for the united kingdom, let alone a plan. and they and simply unable to execute the biggest democratic mandate given to any government in british history . you mentioned joe history. you mentioned joe biden. do you care why you care what joe biden thinks? joe biden shouldn't come to the united kingdom in april. he should stay in the us. he calls himself an irishman. we have a special relationship with the with the united states. you know, i think he does. we've gone to war on behalf of the us repeatedly.

we've backed them up on foreign policy issues repeatedly and repeated glee. they let us down. they let us down in iraq. they let us down in afghanistan. they're letting us down over northern ireland and actually, i've had enough of that special relationship. joe biden should stay in the us. yeah we've got to start doing things well. we've got to start making policy is not domestic and well, what i said little england on its own. where not little . we're the where not little. we're the fifth largest economy in the world. we have the 10th largest armed forces. we have a seat upon the seat in the un. we are a proud nation . we're a capable a proud nation. we're a capable nation. during the space tourism, let us go to say what people at home are thinking. jason says brexit is the best thing we've ever done. okay, to the it doesn't address the the point it doesn't address the northern ireland protocol, a point they say get back in touch on that one. richard says, i didn't and don't want to deal on anything relating europe as anything relating to europe as the again of the hard the question again of the hard brexit itself . dingle says he brexit itself. dingle says he just doesn't want a deal, he

doesn't want to deal with anything. but, you know, sooner because there is only one form of brexit and that's for the entire united kingdom to leave all that. but it's rather more complex because of the island of ireland. no, but it isn't. they've made it complex. they've allowed it to become complex. then there is a lot of truth in what i've said that boris johnson lied . oh, i wouldn't johnson lied. oh, i wouldn't dispute that for a second. and because there was no attention to detail and because he wasn't willing to listen to say but hang on, if you do this, this will happen. and we saw that throughout his time in government and the people around him, had that been a different prime minister whether it was theresa may whether it was david cameron, whether it was god help us. liz truss , we'd have us. liz truss, we'd have probably been lord knows where we go, but i just ask you one thing. i mean, how damaging is it for rishi sunak if he only manages to get this passed with the help of keir starmer, who of course was massive success

course was a massive success that would be the end of rishi sunak point because, know, sunak point because, you know, if saying , you know, he's if he's saying, you know, he's now on keir starmer , that has now on keir starmer, that has backed him into a corner quite cleverly by will support cleverly by saying will support you because we want to get this done and move and blah rishi done and move on and blah rishi sunak doesn't need to have a vote so he doesn't need the support of the labour party. but unless he is prepared to stand up to his own rebels , the really up to his own rebels, the really important constituent see here, we'll think you're one of the head bangers. i'm not a head bangen head bangers. i'm not a head banger. some people will think, you know, barnaby, just learn to compromise. he can't have everything anyway. so way everything anyway. so the way his own way. david david. david cameron. when he was arguing for remain said if you vote to leave , the united kingdom will leave the eu customs union. it will leave the eu single market. we haven't done that. boris johnson's page five tory party manifesto , 2019 states the manifesto, 2019 states the country will leave the eu as one united kingdom. we haven't done it. the problem isn't with

brexit. the problem is with the tory party which is unable to give effect to the mandate that they were given in 2016 because they're riven with division and they're riven with division and they should have thought about it before they embarked on the referendum . david cameron went referendum. david cameron went into the referendum because he was terrified of ukip and he didn't think about the consequences. he didn't put in place what he was recommended to do, which was to have a 10% difference. but he ignored all the advice. well, we all know where we are and we know we are where we are and we know we are where we are and we know we are where we are. so we have to make it work so that's why, you know, at some point somebody going at some point somebody is going to compromise and it's to have to compromise and it's either conservative party on either the conservative party on which ben and i complete , we which ben and i complete, we agree that they're hopeless by and large, but from different sides of the political fence and rishi sunak is either got be rishi sunak is either got to be bold enough to face down his rebels or it's the problem, by the way, not his rebels . the the way, not his rebels. the problem is that we must the problem is that we must the problem is that we must the problem is the dup, and i hope

the dup will stay firm because he can get it through parliament. he can get the deal going. but if stormont doesn't start working again, it'll be pretty that the deal's a pretty clear that the deal's a bad i hope, sir bad deal. and i hope, sir jeffrey analyse this deal jeffrey will analyse this deal dispassionately wet towel dispassionately with wet towel over his head and make the right decision . make the right decision. make the right decision. make the right decision . that's a good it's decision. that's a good it's good image that you make the right decision for the union people are much enjoying people are very much enjoying your open , rachel a list your open, rachel said to a list of panellists. what a treat. classy civilised debate, a joy to watch and listen to. well, that's rather nice. thank keep to the check will be in the post. thanks mom keep the messages coming through. there are very many coming up former rivals tony blair and william hague team off to push for digital ids. are you on board with the idea stating .

welcome back to dewbs& co with me emily carver and with me until seven my panel joe phillips political commentator and ben habib, former brexit party mep and ceo of first property group and not at all the head banger. not the head by not a head buying is very much a there are lots of fans i've i value the few brain cells i've got. well let's get some more responses on the whole question of the northern ireland protocol and whether sunak can be trusted, whether he will be able to get a deal across the line on the northern ireland protocol. i hope so. anyway ken says no subservience to the eu in any way, shape or form has always been my motto and remain so and includes no interference from european judges. the brexit i voted for has not been delivered to date i do not support to date and i do not support throwing northern ireland to the wolves. well, good man chimes with right, says with that, right, steve says sunak be and is sunak can't be trusted. and is justin around the edges justin touring around the edges whilst us only whilst trying to con us the only way can be resolved is to way this can be resolved is to rip treaty or invoke

rip up the treaty or invoke article john's also article 16. john's also mentioned why we never hear about using article 16. quick one on that. well i mean, it's a good point, boris johnson said he's going to bring the internal market to bill new to the protocol. that didn't happen then. they had to come on paper on july 2021 saying they're on july 2021 saying how they're going control for going to take back control for northern didn't northern ireland. that didn't happen frost said in happen then, lord frost said in september conditions september 2021. the conditions exist to invoke article 16 if the conditions exist, actually, you were obliged to invoke article 16 because the conditions a basically a recognition that northern ireland is suffering. so as a government that they're in fact been obliged to invoke article 16 since september 20, 21 and they haven't done it. we have a sorry pattern of lots and there is a pattern in rhetoric, empty rhetoric , and it's the same. i'm rhetoric, and it's the same. i'm going to change the subject. it's the same rhetoric you see about stopping the boats. it's all about , about stopping the boats. it's all about, you about stopping the boats. it's all about , you know, get all about, you know, we'll get the nationality borders bill the nationality and borders bill into then we're going to into an act. then we're going to get plan that we're get the rwandan plan that we're going we're going to going to now. we're going to kick the. all right, we've got

to end the conversation that brexit could be whole brexit could be the whole show on i, imagine i would on brexit. i, i imagine i would like to see you go head to head with a certain daytime radio presenter think he presenter. i don't think he would a chance on abc. yes would stand a chance on abc. yes perhaps on that. anyway for on digital id cards , former rivals digital id cards, former rivals sir tony blair and lord hague of richmond or william hague, as he's more commonly known , have he's more commonly known, have teamed up to push for digital ids for every british. british citizen. the former prime minister and leader of the opposition say the british state is in need of a tech knowledge revolution . the ids would revolution. the ids would incorporate passports, driving licences, tax records , licences, tax records, qualifications and certification of one's right to work in the uk. would this be a step forward or a step towards authoritarianism? i don't know what you think . what do you what you think. what do you think? first of all, i think the idea of compulsory id cards is an absolute and so a physical, you know, any anything , anything you know, any anything, anything thatis you know, any anything, anything that is compulsory i think is wrong. however i

that is compulsory i think is wrong. howeveri do that is compulsory i think is wrong. however i do think and this is one part of a very extensive and well thought out report from hague and blair, which is about why we are struggling behind in technology now , many, many people use their now, many, many people use their phones entirely. they don't carry any cash. they use it for everything from car parking to making the hospital or doctors appointments to booking holiday is to absolutely everything. there is a lot of area there are lots of areas where it would make sense for there to be a link up. and i will give you an example. emily power of attorney, which i'm sure many of the viewers and listeners have got for their elderly relatives or partners or whatever, it's a very laborious, quite right knee so process . but once you've got so process. but once you've got it and i have been dealing with this because my father died last year and my mother is alzheimer's. i've had to send off the physical document. so

many times to the inland revenue, to banks , to so on and revenue, to banks, to so on and so forth, that you would think i know from family experience how laborious. yes. and actually it takes a long time . so you would takes a long time. so you would think something as simple as that once it's gone through the process and is registered, that hmrc would be able to link up to the office of the legal guardian to check that that exists and everything's in order. so there are things like that where it makes common sense. there are things the health service. things like the health service. now bear in mind that tony blair had a great idea to digitise the health service wasted had a great idea to digitise the health service waste d £10 health service wasted £10 billion a system that didn't billion on a system that didn't work, but , billion on a system that didn't work, but, you billion on a system that didn't work, but , you know, why have we work, but, you know, why have we got letters still going out by post that people don't get? because the post is unreliable or whatever . they miss or whatever. they miss appointments and so on and so forth. if you do something deaung forth. if you do something dealing with your local council, most of it is digital. dealing with your local council, most of it is digital . now, dealing with your local council, most of it is digital. now, i'm not saying for one minute that there are many, many people who

can't or don't choose to go onune can't or don't choose to go online to do so. and we need to make sure that those people are able to access the same as others. you say that , but others. you say that, but i think they all forgot and they are forgotten banking. but do you see there are lots and lots of things for where instance, local authorities all local authorities have to do a resident survey every year. what do they do with that data? various councils have different ways of using it, but if you were going to skin that data properly and use it, you would then be able to say, oh, here's a an area where there is really poor broadband. and so let's make sure any public meetings or consultations are held in those areas. you sound you sound completely reasonable with all of that and that very rational. but ben is not what joe's saying sort of first step towards digital id cards. well i'm totally against digital id cards. you know, tony blair has

form for this. you might recall in 2005, he wanted to introduce an id card and in fact , an act an id card and in fact, an act of parliament was passed in order to introduce id cards , order to introduce id cards, which is only reversed by the conservative and liberal coalition government when they won the election in 2010. and those cards , he said, would be those cards, he said, would be fantastic because you'd be able to have facial recognition, fingerprints. would you be able to identify yourself, you know, in short order then during lockdowns and the vaccination programme he wanted the vaccination passport and now he wants this and he's selling it through the prism of technological advancement. but on these cards, he wants your passport , your tax returns, your passport, your tax returns, your national insurance number, and a whole host of other sensitive information in and where tony blair is coming from is big state interventionist. that's what tony blair's tony blair launched. what tony blair's tony blair launched . what now is a nanny? launched. what now is a nanny? what now is a witness but started off as a nanny nanny

state and so this is vintage tony blair. he thinks the state can do everything . and i see it can do everything. and i see it as really pernicious. i'm surprised that lord hague would put his name to it. it's quite a testimony to where the conservative party and conservative thinking has gone , conservative thinking has gone, that it would support an initiative like this. and all credit to david cameron for having got rid of that act before any sort of issue very much splits the libertine winds from the small c conservatives , from the small c conservatives, i but i think , you i would say. but i think, you know, are ways of doing know, there are ways of doing there are ways it does sound like tony blair wants to be the leader of the world. he does anybody who sets their own global institute probably doesn't quite i mean, i think there is a danger is as one commentator wrote today , that, commentator wrote today, that, you know, these are men coming to technology in late middle age, going, oh , this is age, going, oh, this is exciting. i didn't know i could make, you know, tony blair. and blair has been at this for years. but i mean, i think there are ways where technology can

actually help people. i mean one instance is with elderly people being assessed to go home from hospital . we know there are hospital. we know there are people in hospital who don't need to be in hospital, but they haven't got the. that's different, isn't it, one card or one thing that has absolute everything on but i think, everything on it. but i think, you know, that's what i said at the beginning, that this is the height line that's been plucked out of it because they know, obviously, journalists know that people , people will discuss people well, people will discuss it. it'll on phone ins around it. it'll be on phone ins around the country, you know, the the country, you know, for the next the other things next few days. the other things that are in here that i think are really valid and you will know this, ben, your know this, ben, from your deaungsin know this, ben, from your dealings in property, you know, in order to have lab space, you can't just convert offices. you do need to have a whole set of different planning permissions and rules and regulations. and one of the things that they've said in this paper is that that process needs to be speeded up, which i think is something that is worth looking at because you

can't just convert an empty department into department store into a laboratory . there needs to be laboratory. there needs to be lots of things. why can't they just those of just talk about those kind of things? because whole hog things? because the whole hog and suggests genes yeah. and make suggests genes yeah. but could work so with aaron because that's sexy bit that because that's the sexy bit that comes out you can't imagine the headune comes out you can't imagine the headline talking about headline and us talking about but do you do that? but how but how do you do that? but how do you that's not the do you know that's not the cuckoo's egg in the well, cuckoo's egg in the nest? well, i say, but look, i mean, i can give you a million examples. why would a woman who has had a full hysterectomy be called for a cervical smear test? there is no. yeah, there sure . but that's no. yeah, there sure. but that's just by departments having got their act together. yes, but that's the whole. that is the point isn't it. if you haven't got the link. so we need technological advancement, we've got , you know, people who are got, you know, people who are not whether physical or technology if you haven't got stuff that marries up and talks to each other. we're going to

end up in this nonsense which make people think, for goodness sake. think think, you know sake. i think i think, you know there's some truth to what you're definitely sounds you're saying. definitely sounds quite sensible, but mike lloyd, you say, well, the bank grudgingly . well, no, because i grudgingly. well, no, because i was i'm very sceptic of all of this sort digital collating, was i'm very sceptic of all of thiall)rt digital collating, was i'm very sceptic of all of thiall)rt ouriigital collating, was i'm very sceptic of all of thiall)rt our information. ng, of all of our information. i well, not least because the note can go down. i know they can that there could be major hacking things. you don't know what absolute we what the absolute name we haven't touched. haven't haven't even touched. we haven't even you know, even touched on that. you know, there are many issues, of course, and there are issues of security. there issues of security. there are issues of scammers of hackers scammers or issues of hackers and control. of that and and control. all of that and control that . you never know control that. you never know what government is going to be anyway. we've got lots of comments coming through. well, we michael wrestled us we do this. michael wrestled us those cards. will rob those fake id cards. will rob them freedoms are them of their freedoms are living cuckoo land. it living in cloud cuckoo land. it would true those who would be true for those who don't a driver's licence, don't have a driver's licence, bank card, media account, bank card, social media account, internet browser, mobile phone or are all or nhs account, we are all digitally mapped in detail digitally mapped in great detail and we do it because we get huge benefits in return. well, that's one point of view, but susan

says i will not be on board with anything that proposes . i says i will not be on board with anything that proposes. i think that's a very sound policy by which to govern your life . if which to govern your life. if blair it, don't do it. i blair says it, don't do it. i mean , you could probably most of mean, you could probably most of the time anyway. that's all we've got. time for on that discussion. but coming up, shamima begum loses her appeal against the decision to revoke her her british citizenship . but her her british citizenship. but it won't be the end of the road. stay tuned .

welcome back to dewbs& co with me, emily carver with me until 7:00. my panel, joe phillips is a political commentator . and ben a political commentator. and ben habib, former brexit party mep and the ceo of first property group . so a court has dismissed group. so a court has dismissed shamima begum appeal against the decision to revoke her citizenship . this despite citizenship. this despite credible suspicion she was

trafficked into isis territory. begum was stripped of her citizenship in 2019 and remains in a syrian refugee camp. the home office says its priority is the safety and security of the uk, but shamima is lawyers warn the legal fight is nowhere near , nowhere near over . they say , nowhere near over. they say there's endless legal challenges that could still be made. ben, do you think this was right decision or should she have been brought back here for trial? well, i mean, i haven't looked the case detail, it seems to the case detail, but it seems to me it's the right decision, me that it's the right decision, she was stripped of her nationality she went nationality in 2019. she went through a court process. then it went to the supreme went all the way to the supreme court that that court that ruled that she shouldn't a citizenship , shouldn't have a citizenship, but reinstated and for reasons that are not entirely clear, she's now had the opportunity to go through that legal process again . and she's gone through again. and she's gone through the special immigration appeals commission . and i suspect this commission. and i suspect this is going to end up where so many of these things end up, which is a european court of human rights

and. there'll be viewers who will be rolling their eyes at the screen and not the isa again. but i think this is going to head there. and what would happenif to head there. and what would happen if the european court of human rights finds in her favour 7 human rights finds in her favour ? that be quite an ? that would be quite an interesting political impact, wouldn't the government wouldn't it? the government wouldn't it? the government would have to wake up huge it would have to wake up huge it would political impact would have huge political impact . but the takeaway me on . but the real takeaway me on the shamima begum story is this is a woman who's not even in the united kingdom but can pull the levers of our legal system so effectively . she's actually had effectively. she's actually had five hearings, one way or another on the same issue. can you imagine what it's like for people who actually do make that illegal crossing from the channel up in our land ? let's channel up in our land? let's hypothetically say she'd made that illegal crossing in a boat and she was here even having now had five court cases go against her, we wouldn't have the right to deport her because there's nowhere to send her. she's stateless. it is bizarre, though , isn't it, that she's able to

appeal. oh no. i think that's you know, that's the law running its course , i think. is it its course, i think. is it because it seems to a lot of people that it's constant activist lawyers trying to find loopholes and loopholes . and i loopholes and loopholes. and i do wonder, why are there so many people who want to fight tooth and nail for this now woman who joined a terrorist organisation? well, i think you there are several issues here. one is that i think the ruling today which upheld the then home secretary sajid javid decision to strip her of her british citizenship . her of her british citizenship. and that's all that hearing was about the people who want her to come back and face trial for what? for this is the problem . i what? for this is the problem. i know. exactly. so i mean , you know. exactly. so i mean, you know, i think this whole thing gets conflated. so bring her that letter face justice. well, for what are you going with ? are for what are you going with? are you going to charge that she hasn't been stripped of her citizenship for a crime is the threat poses the united threat she poses the united kingdom and that's why it was

upheld that home secretary upheld that the home secretary had right put british had every right to put british security above and beyond her rights. as a british citizen. also, she does have a right to bangladeshi citizenship , so she bangladeshi citizenship, so she is not technically stateless. i think it would have been a slightly different question. had any of her three children survive because , where would survive because, where would those children fit as stateless individuals? would they any rights to be british citizens? or would they have any rights to come back and be repatriated ? come back and be repatriated? their grandparents a social services may wish to strip of her children. well, yes, i think for good reason. having lost three children to death, i think that doesn't need to go down that doesn't need to go down that route. this is what's so frustrating , though, about the frustrating, though, about the argument that we see that we hear time and time again when this when this story arises , this when this story arises, comes the news that comes back into the news that the lawyers , they know that if the lawyers, they know that if she was brought back to this country , that she wouldn't

country, that she wouldn't necessarily be convicted of a crime, she wouldn't be convicted of a crime. and even if we if a court found that she should be deported, there'd be no way to deported, there'd be no way to deport it to once she's back here. that's why they're fighting so hard once she's back here, she's but why do they? here, she's in. but why do they? why don't because there's why don't want. because there's money there is money money in it only there is money in it. yeah. hang on a minute. hang on. just because you don't agree with the position that her lawyer is taking, i mean gareth peirce, is one of shamima peirce, who is one of shamima bacon's lawyers today, is actually a renowned lawyer who got justice for people who were wrongly jailed for very, very, very many years for bombings that they had no part in. so you know, it depends just because we think other people might think shamima bacon is a terrorist threat , she shamima bacon is a terrorist threat, she is shamima bacon is a terrorist threat , she is still entitled to threat, she is still entitled to have somebody acting on her behalf to argue against it. sure. i guess i guess a lot of people would take the view that the home office, the home

secretary, has no knows the intelligence well and knows the facts. and that's what the kind that she's a national. and that's what the court and it's been to the supreme court already. well, who knows? we shall see what happens. i imagine and more legal imagine more and more legal challenges we've got challenges is what we've got coming. so we've got some responses coming through common sense. proud this sense. if you're proud of this country then country and its history, then you that this lady you will know that this lady must be brought home tried must be brought home and tried for joining an illegal organisation. not forjoining an illegal organisation. not be organisation. she must not be allowed to stay in syria where she might try to spread isis's propaganda. never left propaganda. we've never left our mess someone else's doorstep. mess on someone else's doorstep. i'm if that last bit i'm not so sure if that last bit is true, but you make the point that people have have made that many people have have made that many people have have made that come here for that she's come back here for trial, but perhaps we need some kind law, and kind of new treason law, and perhaps to mind. she was perhaps we need to mind. she was 18, 18 when she left. so what she she would be charged as a juvenile. i mean, think juvenile. i mean, i think there's lot of barroom there's an awful lot of barroom lawyers there. stop lawyers out there. yeah stop and think what would think about what you would charge her with. i think treason anyway , coming up is over. is it anyway, coming up is over. is it even important anymore? the

office for national statistics says fewer and fewer people are doing it . we'll find out what doing it. we'll find out what the panel think in.

just six. welcome back to dewbs& co. with me, emily carver and with me until seven. my panel is still here. joe phillips, political commentator, and ben habib, who is former brexit party mep and the ceo of first property group . so i just recently got engaged. i think, and i read in the newspaper today that apparently marriage is on the way out. do you think marriage is the foundation of any successful society and the cornerstone of a thriving economy? or perhaps you think it's an outdated institution that has served its purpose? does marriage even matter anymore? the office for national

statistics shows fewer and fewer people tying the knot. ben well, ihave people tying the knot. ben well, i have to say, i was over the moon when i heard you were getting married, so there must be something . there must be an be something. there must be an emotional disposition within me towards because i see towards marriage. because i see it as a kind of happy transition from being a young, single to embarking on a journey with someone you love. setting up a family. creating your own little institution if you like . and institution if you like. and from that perspective, i think it's wonderful. and, you know, if you look at if you look at how societies evolved, you know, family units are terribly important. that's where children learn their value system . that's learn their value system. that's where they learn mass . that's where they learn mass. that's where they learn mass. that's where they learn english, how to speak and so on and so forth. so, i mean, i see the unit of a family is really important. and i think the structure of marriage helps that unit. it finds you it's a public declaration of commitment to each other rather than a kind of laissez faire where you look

pretty good to me. so let's let's get let's have some children out from this bed. yeah, go for it. yeah. a few weeks ago, we would discussing with michelle about the church of england's decision on same sex marriages and refusing to adjudicate the performance. perform this on the mount. yeah, but to offer blessings and things. and you said why? why doesit things. and you said why? why does it matter? but you've just argued very convincingly and articulately of why it does matter to some people to do that pub public witness and declaration . yeah, but they can declaration. yeah, but they can do that. i mean, same sex marriages can do that in a registry office, can't they? if you're so personal. registry office, can't they? if you're so personal . if. registry office, can't they? if you're so personal. if. i mean. i mean , it's not compliant with i mean, it's not compliant with christian ity, is it? i mean, are we going back to notice and that's why. well, i mean, painful. forbes we had a bit of that debate yesterday talking about forbes, the snp about kate forbes, the snp leadership, and i quite like kate forbes even she's kate forbes even though she's snp. she's you know, snp. i mean, she's you know, she's some sound

she's got some good sound tradition conservative tradition, conservative christian values respects marriage . david has messaged me marriage. david has messaged me asking me if i will marry him . asking me if i will marry him. it's not too late that the ring you've got there a bit too late. i'm sorry, but i'm sure you'll find someone lovely and cathy says i believe marriage should stay . i've been married to my stay. i've been married to my childhood sweetheart for 52 years, we've both never years, and we've both never regretted it for a second. of us there is where you don't have to get married like that. and all i would say to emily as i'm sure you embark on the planning for this marvellous wedding and you will be having voices in your head from everybody telling you what to do. yeah marriage is about more than the day. it's not just a dress and flowers. nobody's going to remember whether the subjects match the flowers or what they had to eat. but you will have gone through agony. you'll have fallen out with your mother, your best friend, your bridesmaids probably called off probably nearly called it off with marriage with your fiance. say marriage is more than the day. and that's what people need know. well, what people need to know. well, i think i'd rather

i sometimes i think i'd rather just skip the day and get to the marriage, but perhaps that's a bit of miserable point. no, bit of a miserable point. no, no. got to have the day. no. you got to have the day. come have a day. come on. you've got have a day. the fun thing he said, it's no not worth the paper. it's written marriage. who written marriage. that is who said leigh. no is no, said that leigh. no is no, that's right. you have that's not right. you have miserable didn't give miserable on it. you didn't give us details of your us any details of your situation, so we can't know it's h y. you're saying it's h y. you're saying that it's not an institution. an easy institution. marriage, you one hell of you know, it is one hell of a long journey that you've got ahead of you. if it works out. but don't forget, it's we were looking up actually. it's looking this up actually. it's legal, religious. whole legal, not religious. the whole institution is it's institution of marriage is it's legal. it's a legal construct. absolutely born, perhaps out of religion . yeah, but but the religion. yeah, but but the religious ceremonies of whatever religion you happen to believe in, but it is also something that in the past was about the ownership of a woman past saying from a father to the man how this is the patriarchal example people say about marriage . i was people say about marriage. i was listening to peter tatchell the other day and he was saying how he would never get married, but obviously he was talking about

equal marriage, he considers equal marriage, but he considers it a patriarchal, oppressive, institu ation. but he will always support people's rights to get married if they want to. but it is a bit strange that nearly four in ten adults have never been wed. that is very much, but it doesn't mean to say that they're not in a relationship . no, but i do think relationship. no, but i do think a of people are single for a lot of people are single for longer anyway, not even in a relationship is all relationship anyway, that is all we've ponder. they're we've lots to ponder. they're busy you very busy evening. thank you very much indeed. that's we've much indeed. that's and we've got for evening on got time for this evening on jobs co i will be back on jobs and co i will be back on saturday 2 to 4 pm. for real britain. nana will be taking the presenter seat tomorrow. thank you very much to my panel. ben habib. thank you. and joe phillips with me this evening . phillips with me this evening. stay for fresh . hello stay tuned for fresh. hello again. it's aidan mcgivern here from the met office. showers will clear south overnight with clear spells in the north leading to a frosty morning for scotland. northern ireland and parts of northern england. but for southern parts of the uk we'll see the continuation of

some showers. those showers are moving associated with this cleared fronts into central and then southern parts of the uk. so a slice of cloud . outbreaks so a slice of cloud. outbreaks of rain on and off nothing particularly heavy or persistent that will initially affect northern england. the midlands parts of east anglia, but increasingly feeding into wales increasingly feeding into wales in the south—west as the night wears on, clearing skies . then wears on, clearing skies. then for the far north of england, scotland northern scotland and northern ireland, where temperatures into where temperatures will dip into the figures or even the low single figures or even a touch below freezing in spots. some spots fairly widespread some spots a fairly widespread frost first thing tomorrow. otherwise plenty of bright spells scotland, northern ireland into northern england, sunny spells breaking out as well as cloud and outbreaks of rain clear from the south. and then much of england. wales. it's a fine afternoon, but for scotland's northern ireland it turns increasingly cloudy , wet turns increasingly cloudy, wet and windy. weather pushes into the and north—west of scotland some over some heavy rain over the north—west highlands, strengthening for the strengthening winds for the northern now wet and northern isles. now wet and windy weather comes south during thursday evening. increasingly

feeding into central and then southern parts of scotland. a few showers for northern ireland and this area of cloud drifting its way southwards through the night as well to the south of that's the far south of england, it stays clear through the night and as result, there'll be a and as a result, there'll be a touch frost in places on touch of frost in places on friday morning. but otherwise, across three for five across the uk, three for five celsius, typically so generally frost free. but it's a cloudy start to the day for the vast majority and we'll see those outbreaks continuing across outbreaks rain continuing across central and southern scotland into england . and then into northern england. and then there's spells come south there's rainy spells come south into central , eventually into central, eventually southern and southwestern parts by the end of friday afternoon to the north of that, a strengthening wind and feeling a bit colder. but for the weekend high builds, will high pressure builds, that will lead a lot of fine and dry lead to a lot of fine and dry weather. it's all about family being living rooms, being in people's living rooms, all interaction and getting all the interaction and getting to who our view is and to know who our view is and listeners are. when young, listeners are. when i was young, my to say, nah, nah, my dad used to say, nah, nah, stop arguing. wanted outlet stop arguing. wanted an outlet that me to give my that would enable me to give my opinion . people are going opinion. people are going through really hard time right through a really hard time right

now i know that you don't now and i know that you don't feel like you're being listened to the establishment . i came to by the establishment. i came to by the establishment. i came to gb news because it's the people's channel and i want the audience say on audience to have their say on the of the day. we are the events of the day. we are dynamic. we do something different. democracy shows that the the nation is in the wisdom of the nation is in its i get to travel to its people. i get to travel to find out what the story is from a personal perspective. the british people aren't fools. we know when we're not being told the story. we've to the full story. we've got to work how britain moves work out how britain moves forward this is the best forward from this is the best country in the world. the establishment have their chance now. we're here to represent your views. britain is watching . britain's watching. britain's watching . we're proud to be gb watching. we're proud to be gb news. the people's channel, britain's news channel. i'm jacob rees—mogg, the member of parliament for north somerset and i'm delighted to be joining gb news. democracy shows that the wisdom of the nation is in its people. that's why i'm joining the people's channel to get your wisdom . jacob rees—mogg get your wisdom. jacob rees—mogg state of the nation monday from

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tonight on farage. we have the first sit down interview with the home secretary suella braverman. the straight talking home secretary gb news is liam halligan and conducted the interview. we show it in a minute here for the first time. when that's done, jeremy walsh, olympic silver medallist at the 400 metres, joins me to talk about a life in sport. but perhaps even more importantly about kids in care and adoption and what's going wrong in this country today. but before all of that, let's get more news with polly middle east .