channel coming up on today's camilla tominey show. i'm going to be speaking to chris heaton harris, the northern ireland secretary, about whether rishi sunak's brexit cut the mustard. i'll also be speaking to jake berry. bods also be speaking to jake berry. boris supporter extraordinaire . boris supporter extraordinaire. has the former prime minister become a bit trumpian over sue gray .7 and professor carol sikora gray? and professor carol sikora , this cancer specialist is going to react to the lockdown files. all that and more to come. but first, here's the news

with tatiana sanchez . camilla, with tatiana sanchez. camilla, thank you very much. and good morning. it's 30. this is the latest from gb newsroom train are being hit by the largest hike in rail fares for more than decade. train prices england and wales are increase by an average of 5.9, which could add hundreds of 5.9, which could add hundreds of pounds to annual season tickets. rail minister hugh says the increase has been low inflation, but labour has called it savage . the duke of sussex it savage. the duke of sussex has defended his use of drugs . has defended his use of drugs. some of them helped him mentally. during his latest streamed , prince harry spoke to streamed, prince harry spoke to trauma . dr. gabor motty , who trauma. dr. gabor motty, who diagnosed him with attention deficit disorder in. his memoir, spare harry, admitted to regular drug taking. saying he used marijuana in 2015. whilst living

in the grounds of kensington palace , harry also spoke about palace, harry also spoke about the death of his mother, princess diana, who died when he was just 12 years old. and more than 100 nations have completed an historic pact to protect the world's oceans . the legally world's oceans. the legally binding high seas treaty aims to put 30% of seas into protected areas by 2030. environmental groups say the agreement will help reverse marine losses and ensure sustainable development . ensure sustainable development. tv online . dab plus radio. this tv online. dab plus radio. this is gb news. now it's back to camilla . camilla. good morning and welcome to the camilla tominey show with me, camilla tominey show with me, camilla tominey. don't go anywhere . the weather looks anywhere. the weather looks awful right ? so stay here. stay awful right? so stay here. stay tuned . got 90 minutes of pure

tuned. got 90 minutes of pure political fun and games to have. it's been a pretty busy week at the telegraph, as you could imagine. the locked down files have dominated the news agenda. some other broadcasters haven't really gb news really enjoyed it. gb news obviously covered it very obviously has covered it very well that's what well because that's what do here. that's to be the here. so that's going to be the main discussion. but main source of discussion. but we're also going to be discussing and other discussing brexit and other issues. gray fiasco. i've issues. a sue gray fiasco. i've got chris heaton—harris, the northern secretary, northern ireland secretary, coming in. i'm going to be speaking a key speaking to jake berry, a key bofis speaking to jake berry, a key boris supporter, about boris johnson supporter, about what all. is what he thinks of it all. is this inquiry even this privileged inquiry even going up anymore ? and going to stand up anymore? and i'll speaking to john i'll be speaking to john ashworth, and pensions ashworth, the work and pensions secretary , about how well keir secretary, about how well keir starmer knows sue gray because i think we need to know, don't we? but first all, let's just go but first of all, let's just go through newspaper through the newspaper headlines. as imagine , the sunday as you could imagine, the sunday telegraph again leads with this huge .it telegraph again leads with this huge . it isn't going to huge expose. it isn't going to be scoop of the year. i don't know. is hancock's to know. what is hancock's plan to frighten off the frighten the pants off the pubuc frighten the pants off the public ? just that in public? we just cutting that in just minute sunday times just a minute. sunday times putin has stolen our children . putin has stolen our children. the observer .

putin has stolen our children. the observer. i'll be discussing this with jake berry. he's gone full. trump tories turn on johnson over partygate the mirror . it's johnson over partygate the mirror. it's the johnson over partygate the mirror . it's the royal who mirror. it's the royal who refuses to go away as he continues his world privacy tool , harry's new blast at . charles , harry's new blast at. charles express. again, there he is in the pictures going off to the for privacy. and he's on the front page of the papers. again, rishi stop migrant boats. it says on the sunday express and the mail also goes with that story . rishi, make no mistake story. rishi, make no mistake all deport channel migrants. story. rishi, make no mistake all deport channel migrants . and all deport channel migrants. and the sun on sunday again harry sums up the mood of i think one in three people in britain by saying, i come from a broken home. join the club, harry. but not all of us complain about it at see it now let's bring in my newspaper. guess my telegraph colleague allison pearson joins now. i'm absolutely delighted to have you in the studio. wonderful to be. i've been watching you and seeing the view

and now i'm here in so we've created our we created our outfit. we like robin it's very nice. robin hood. it's very nice. you've made marrying robert something like that. he'll be little john like. now, alison, let's go with scoop of the year. a bias going to call it that the lockdown files hancock's plan to frighten the pants off the pubuc. frighten the pants off the public . not frighten the pants off the public. not the best thing to have said in a whatsapp. what do you make of it all because i know you've done so much work on this you've done your planet normal podcast. you've been one of journalists have of the few journalists have voiced about lockdown voiced concerns about lockdown from the very beginning. so your take is really intriguing . well, take is really intriguing. well, i guess you could say it's vindication, but it's a very bittersweet , isn't it, when you bittersweet, isn't it, when you actually out? i always actually find out? i always suspected they were quoting the science and making things up as they went along to a political agenda and what the telegraph scoop this week has revealed is , i'm afraid that's exactly what was happening. i think today's is the worst yet. my bangkok project fear let's scare the

pants off the public with the new variant the kent variant we know camilla is viruses tend to get weaker they get more contagious some they get weaker but what's coming through today from this whatsapp is oh, the naughty british public maybe they're getting a bit complacent maybe they're not behaving themselves and doing what uncle matt tells them. so now we're going to scare pants off them by pretending new variant is going to be more lethal. total lies. absolute lies is told by a minister to the british people. this is hugely a vast scandal, i think. but what we've seen is other journalists targeting their i on isabel. okay. as you pointed , julia hartley—brewer, i pointed, julia hartley—brewer, i think is written a piece in the telegraph where she's basically said, you know, in what world is isabel oakeshott? this story this story is about 100,000 and messages reveal the decision making at the heart of

government policy that our lives and liberties. and yet there's this huge focus on isabel who let us declare a personal interest. we both know her quite well. and you know the bbc, and that's a completely lost their minds over this, probably because were scoop to because they were out scoop to because they were out scoop to be weren't really the money be they weren't really the money in the place. where was in the first place. where was the journalistic scrutiny apart in the first place. where was the j

empathy at the top , the inner empathy at the top, the inner circle for the concert consists that these terrible, restricted runs were having on children couldn't kiss their parents goodbye in care homes. couldn't kiss their parents goodbye in care homes . you know, goodbye in care homes. you know, they were kids . we have over they were kids. we have over a million children on mental health waiting . yes. now, these health waiting. yes. now, these policies , this is the worst policies, this is the worst policy in modern british history . and it was quite right of isabella to betray matt hancock. matt hancock betrayed the british people happened. i mean, ihave british people happened. i mean, i have read your twitter feed. alison, what do you think should happen to matt hancock ? let's happen to matt hancock? let's appreciate. it's not here to defend himself. and he has robustly defended himself against this. it's only against this. he says it's only against this. he says it's only a view that the lockdown a partial view that the lockdown files tell the full files don't tell the full picture. what do think picture. what do you think should the former should happen to the former health well not health secretary? well not a lawyer, but i'd like to at criminal proceedings against of these police. and for what? how can made he'll can do that then he's made he'll be saying i made these policy decisions in good faith . my decisions in good faith. my i saw data hundreds of thousands

of people were going to die. you can't argue with the first lockdown. surely we didn't know the dangers of this virus . we the dangers of this virus. we had to protect ourselves and indeed not just the elderly, but at we were seeing at the time we were seeing images italy and people images from italy and people were in were dying and they were in hospital these hospital corridors. these whatsapps date that whatsapps don't date from that early period. these whatsapp state from the end of 2020 when we had got a much clearer picture about what was going on. we've not only got hancock saying scare pants off the saying let's scare pants off the public, camilla , during the public, camilla, during the second world war, the worst our country ever faced , modern country ever faced, modern times, the government didn't use propaganda against british people. these people and we've got simon case the most senior civil servant, saying let's use fear slash guilt on the british pubuc.i fear slash guilt on the british public. i think it's i mean, i don't know i look at the news programmes and i think, where is the outrage ? i know it's an the outrage? i know it's an outrage because we're going to get onto sue gray in just a minute. and actually cases a decent segway because he's the cabinet secretary, is a permanent time

permanent secretary at the time of it's interesting he talks of and it's interesting he talks about conservative about sort of conservative ideology around being anti or pro lockdown . why is he using pro lockdown. why is he using that terminology ? is being pro that terminology? is being pro or anti—lockdown a political construct? i don't think it is. is it ? i think construct? i don't think it is. is it? i think it construct? i don't think it is. is it ? i think it became construct? i don't think it is. is it? i think it became the cause of the left. we see it in america with the democrat that's if you wore a mask, if you did, you were told then you were virtuous. i mean, i did always did what told. i know you did what i was told. i know you did what i was told. i know you did because were did it as well, because we were journalists couldn't afford journalists we couldn't afford to be breaking to be seen to be breaking the rules. were rules, rules. i if there were rules, everybody should obey them. but i it a cause of the left, i think it a cause of the left, although at the telegraph and on planet podcast we were hearing from people across the political , numerous people who that a lot of the data we were being given was very dodgy and what we see in these lockdown files is boris johnson to his great credit, constantly questions like but if an 84 year old gets covid and has only a 6% chance of dying, shouldn't we give elderly people

the choice? then more at from falling down ministers comes out of it. okay, okay. the shopping trolley analogy that dominic coined does seem appropriate . coined does seem appropriate. you can't take a decision . why you can't take a decision. why does he let as he's described, this pipsqueak , matt hancock, this pipsqueak, matt hancock, push him around ? it's like he push him around? it's like he goes and canvasses opinions and then he can't take one himself. i think that does him. i think they scared the public so successfully that . then they successfully that. then they were caught in that loop because what happened was the public suddenly start to say, but we want you go on protecting us because it's so frightening. they couldn't then say, well , they couldn't then say, well, actually we may have overexaggerated . how how many overexaggerated. how how many people? mean, i remember people? i mean, i remember seeing adverts telling young people all people are equally at risk. that was lie that was paid for by yours and my taxes. risk. that was lie that was paid for by yours and my taxes . a lie for by yours and my taxes. a lie implying that young people would die of covid in great numbers . die of covid in great numbers. no, not true. but anyway, look , no, not true. but anyway, look, let's celebrate this as a great a great, great escape. let's

move to another exclusive that's a good exclusive today in the sun on sunday. and this is a revelation exclusive foryour fury over dubai row partygate sue lord is an activist for labour so sue gray son is not just an activist for labour, but also campaigning in uxbridge. that's right, campaigning in bofis that's right, campaigning in boris johnson's uxbridge seat, which which is slightly, slightly risk. yeah, this is a staggering story look. we all know we control we have no control over our children's political opinions . so i've political opinions. so i've control over my children's political opinions . but this is political opinions. but this is really shocking. this is the civil servant sue gray who led the investigation , impartial the investigation, impartial investigation into partygate. it's now revealed that her son is a labour activist. he is quoted in this sun exclusive as but oh, my mum had led the partygate investigation into bofis partygate investigation into boris johnson. he's now campaigning in boris's seat for.

labour pretty , pretty labour pretty, pretty astonishing. same stuff and they've got a very liking to jake jake berry about it in bit. and just to say quickly that dan hodgesin and just to say quickly that dan hodges in the mail on sunday has a very good piece about this calling case judgement into question. he's appointed sue gray as his chief of staff. the woman who was recent investigating boris johnson. it doesn't smell very good, does it? really quick ? when on harry it? really quick? when on harry and meghan this time, always and meghan this time, as always of the essence , the cartoon of the essence, the cartoon you've picked out for cartoon today's your father, today's how did your father, harry, come out? we know you're in was frogs it i'm in there was frogs it right. i'm going to you with this an going to ask you with this is an attempt them coming to attempt to stop them coming to the i say that the coronation. i only say that because by throwing them out of their accommodation at windsor, their accommodation at windsor, the saying, the king is basically saying, oh, come if you oh, sorry, when you come if you come may the sixth, won't come on may the sixth, you won't have i'm sure have anywhere to stay. i'm sure there's nice primary area. and there's a nice primary area. and within spitting distance westminster we can make westminster abbey, we can make it a premier in elephant. it in a premier in elephant. anyway. is she going keep all anyway. is she going to keep all tiaras, camilla? look, i think. it's you're invited , it's very much. you're invited, but, you know, please don't come. isn't it really? there's a

very element my guess. my very strong element my guess. my strong hunch is that william and kate and the future. well, the queen camilla, another queen really had another queen camilla. i would guess that they there's a lot of pressure for if they're coming. we don't you know, we don't want them there. they've said absolutely horrendous things about. us can you imagine the atmosphere make them windsor and them in the them up windsor and them in the cheap seats at the back of the approach. alison. alison pearson, thank you so much for joining absolute joining me. the absolute pleasure you. now let's pleasure to see you. now let's find what the people's panel find out what the people's panel makes of week's political makes of the week's political events and what they'd like me to of the ministers to ask. some of the ministers are the show. all europe are on the show. all of europe is chose windsor is in windsor. we chose windsor because agreement. because the windsor agreement. why olivia what are the why not? olivia what are the good people windsor saying good merry people windsor saying this morning. good merry people windsor saying this morning . hello camilla. this morning. hello camilla. yes, i am here and windsor with our fantastic people's and we've got some very challenging questions indeed lined up from our brilliant gb news viewers to your. our brilliant gb news viewers to

your . but our brilliant gb news viewers to your. but first things first, we are very lucky to be here in the go—go's waterfront restaurant here in windsor. and you can see the gorgeous marina behind me. and i'm going to introduce you now to stu, who is the general here. thank you so much . you here. thank you so much. you hosting us? we're very grateful to be here. and how are things for ? business. good. for you? business. it's good. it's winter, but this for you? business. it's good. it' really winter, but this for you? business. it's good. it' really pickingvinter, but this for you? business. it's good. it' really picking up er, but this for you? business. it's good. it' really picking up very jt this for you? business. it's good. it' really picking up very busy; is really picking up very busy weekends struggling weekends, struggling with the cost try make cost of food and try make profit. but getting there profit. but we're getting there slowly. vulnerable slowly. thanks vulnerable residents customers. well, residents and customers. well, that's to hear. i'd that's great to hear. and i'd love be here in the love to be back here in the summer what summer because what are a politicised for you? politicised losses for you? gone. again. so gone. thank you again. and so this our brilliant people's this is our brilliant people's panel today . have got ken, we've panel today. have got ken, we've got sarah and we've got rob and. ken, i'm going to start with you because we were talking earlier and you used to a civil servant, didn't you? so what do you make of the appointment of sue gray as keir starmer's chief of staff? do you do you think it's appropriate? well he can obviously appoint who he wants to his decision. however, there are broader considerations. not so much about the substance of

sue gray , but how it actually sue gray, but how it actually looks in practise. there are things going back now , 30 or 40 things going back now, 30 or 40 years where it's very, very clear that people have said it's not just what it's about, how it looks and how it's perceived. and i think for someone in his position, do is to ask position, he should do is to ask questions have i made the right here? look and how here? how will this look and how will play out towards will this play out towards the general and indeed general public and indeed confidence in the system confidence in them in the system itself? so i think it's a question of questionable . best question of questionable. best is the best. a pretty strong effort from you there. thank you very much, ken and sarah what do you make of that? do you agree with that assessment? do you think own goal think it's sort of an own goal for keir? i'm actually for keir? well, i'm actually a lawyer kaye lawyer at lawyer and kaye is a lawyer at common law. there is the appearance of bias here. and i think that keir will know that. so i think it raises real questions about the impartiality of the report. and do you think that might be quite helpful? actually for boris johnson? yeah not really a come back perhaps we keep keep hearing rumours of

that and rob you are a junior national british and irish and you live here in windsor so you seem like the perfect to ask about the new wins framework. what do you make of it? well, in i am irish and british english i suppose , but i should be suppose, but i should be conflicted. but actually i'm quite at peace with the whole situation. i come from the tech sector and think there is an analogy which works quite well here with theresa may have a hard border , the irish sea, with hard border, the irish sea, with that move towards a firm border. and i think the potential in this agreement is that it could now move towards being a soft border . the reality is not border. the reality is not everybody is going to get everything they want out of this this accord, but people need to coalesce on common and use that as as the basis for moving forward without knowing the detail. i we have the potential to move forward . the mood music to move forward. the mood music is pretty on this from most

quarters. thank you that's really interesting nice hear a positive message as well and committee's going to be interviewing heaton—harris the northern secretary northern ireland secretary jonathan ashworth shadow and pensions secretary and jake berry, the former chairman of the party. do you have a panel? what are your questions to them? i'm going to start again with you. okay. well, i suppose to chris heaton harris, it would be to really get under skin of this agreement. and it's about the why of the agreement not the weight of the agreement, but the why. so my question to him would why. so my question to him would why will this in his view be a lasting agreement? because that's what we need. thank you very much, sir john ashworth . i very much, sir john ashworth. i would probably ask is has rupert got the whip back after the comments that she made about kwasi kwarteng superficially black? i mean, the hrc of any just stopped investigating labour a couple of weeks ago . labour a couple of weeks ago. keir has said that he will

operate a zero tolerance approach to racism. does that mean zero tolerance? if you bet on a half day training course . on a half day training course. thank you very much, sarah . can thank you very much, sarah. can we're going to come back to you in the next clip. but for now, back to the people, back to camilla in the studio. thanks very much for that, olivia. fascinating stuff . i shall try fascinating stuff. i shall try incorporate some of those questions interviews. incorporate some of those quest forget, interviews. incorporate some of those quest forget, if interviews. incorporate some of those quest forget, if iwantiews. incorporate some of those quest forget, if iwant to 's. don't forget, if you want to apply to the people's panel, it should gbnews.uk forward slash now. interview number one comes up next. jake berry, i think the former chairman of the tory party hopefully is joining me from constituency . jake, can from his constituency. jake, can you hear me? and darren and watson down there ? i can hear watson down there? i can hear you loud and. clear. camilla good man. lovely to see you this morning. now, let's talk about this privileges committee, this interim report said it should have been obvious , boris have been obvious, boris johnson, that he was breaking the rules. he's a very educated and, clever man. it should have been obvious him, shouldn't it, jake ? well camilla, you're

jake? well camilla, you're right. he absolutely is an educated and clever man . look, i educated and clever man. look, i think lots of watching this show would understand and that the rules were, in some cases so complicated , particularly here complicated, particularly here in lancashire, where the old town of bolton had 18 different sets of rules over a two month period, that it was quite hard, i think, for everyone to keep track of them. look at boris should obviously. i know but he was a minister. he made the rules . but know i mean, i think rules. but know i mean, i think what what you'll find is if you look at that sue gray report and i'm sure we'll come on to the art is walking into a room where gave you a slice of birthday cake really for most cake really really for most people would not necessarily believe that they were attending a party within the definition of the rules . i a party within the definition of the rules. i just i just don't think that that's most people interpret them. it's clearly interpret them. and it's clearly not them . not boris interpreted them. okay. let's about sue gray okay. let's talk about sue gray then, because when the report came out, boris johnson said it basically vindicated him . he

basically vindicated him. he seemed quite pleased with the sue gray report. now he's saying that there are question marks over the sue report because over the sue gray report because of this appointment to secure starmer's office. so is starmer's office. so which is it? sue gray vindicated him or him? i'm confused. it? sue gray vindicated him or him? i'm confused . well the sue him? i'm confused. well the sue gray report largely . boris gray report largely. boris johnson.i gray report largely. boris johnson. i think the point about this huge lapse of judgement that keir starmer's had in relation to appointing sue gray is even though actually in all deaungs is even though actually in all dealings with him and i work with him when i was in the cabinet office, i personally have found to be completely have found it to be completely fair it's appearance of fair. it's this appearance of bias, this sort of appearance that boris johnson may have been to the biggest stitch up since the bio tapestry as he likes to say. it's this appearance of bias, which i think undermines wins and defeats quite a lot . wins and defeats quite a lot. the points of her report . but the points of her report. but aren't you undermining civil service by suggesting that? sue craig can't have private but behave in a professionally impartial manner.

behave in a professionally impartial manner . well, as impartial manner. well, as i said in all my dealings with sue gray, i've always found a completely fair and impartial but i think it plays into this bigger idea camilla that you know the british people voted for brexit and i wasn't government and i saw first hand civil servants at every turn trying to frustrate brexit. the british people then voted for bofis british people then voted for boris johnson to actually deliver the brexit they'd voted for a couple of years earlier , for a couple of years earlier, and that it feels like because of this appointment of sue gray, we saw civil service we then saw the civil service try and frustrate and, remove bofis try and frustrate and, remove boris johnson from office . so boris johnson from office. so i cannot help what the civil service does and how it may be perceived by the great british public. that's for the great british public decide it's the civil itself which creating this perception. i think the appointments sue gray unfortunately is just another brick in the wall that gb news viewers would look at it and say, you actually don't work for us, you work for yourself , you us, you work for yourself, you don't work for our country. you don't work for our country. you don't believe in what we believe in. and that's why i think it's a mistake have appointed sue

a mistake to have appointed sue gray. that sir keir gray. do you think that sir keir starmer should change his mind then? do you think he should cancel the appointment . i don't cancel the appointment. i don't really care what keir starmer does. really care what keir starmer does . that's a matter really care what keir starmer does. that's a matter him. does. that's a matter for him. i've made views completely clear on that. but what i would say the appointment of sue gray, i think, proves that keir starmer is man of the establishment. he's basically worked in the establishment his entire life, not least as he keeps telling us as the chief prosecutor for the uk, any government he heads is not going to work for the people of lancashire , is not going to of lancashire, is not going to work for your viewers. it's an establishment government that wants to preserve the status quo. and i got into politics to change that. it's a fight for the people, the north, to deliver what people want here across lancashire and the wider north of england. keir will not do that. he cannot do that and sue gray his appointment proves that. if boris johnson is that. but if boris johnson is found guilty by this privileges committee, then the people of the north, your constituents

will. he needs to stand down as an mp . well, i'm not going to an mp. well, i'm not going to get what may happen. i mean, i the first thing with the privileges committee is it needs to get on with it because we've waited a very long time. i cannot understand why we have this continuous delay . let's this continuous delay. let's deal with what the privileges committee says, what it reports . but i think boris johnson has been absolutely clear and as you started off by saying camilla , started off by saying camilla, the report, large lee the sue gray report, large lee said he was vindicate richard and you know although made mistakes which i think he freely admits you know he should have carried on as prime minister. i think that's what the privileges committee should we'll find your party been through and through jake.i party been through and through jake. i think the last time i saw you in westminster, you were talking about boris sort of being the to the tory being the answer to the tory party's pressures the next party's pressures come the next general . do still general election. do you still think mean , do you still think that i mean, do you still think that i mean, do you still think party weakened think that the party is weakened without he just shut without or should he just shut his trap, support the prime minister in the interests of party for your party to have a

hope? hell of beating labour. come 2024 . well, camilla, come 2024. well, camilla, i recently made a comment which i won't repeat on gb news about prime ministerial interventions like you can repeat it if you like you can repeat it if you like . well, i think they should. like. well, i think they should. okay. well, i said that interventions former prime ministers should be like sex, a long and happy relationship , long and happy relationship, infrequent but anticipated with glee. that apology applies to bofis glee. that apology applies to boris johnson. he absolutely has a huge role to play in british pubuc a huge role to play in british public life, but i think he needs to enable rishi sunak to lead not just my party, but our country , forward to the election country, forward to the election victory . in terms of boris victory. in terms of boris johnson, he is a triple gold plated. sure by—election winner . don't call recall election. he's ever actually lost. and so i'm sure as got nearer to the general election, he will play a huge part not least in that campaign, but in government, going around talking to people about delivering the people's priorities . what did mrs. berry priorities. what did mrs. berry about that quote? jake jake ?

about that quote? jake jake? mrs. berry had her standard reaction to most things. i had say, which is head in the hands and say, oh, my god, what have you done? she's very, very tolerant of my of my loose lips . and word. this migrant policy that rishi sunak is coming out with this week. you have to stop these boats, don't you. isn't it these boats, don't you. isn't it the most important issue facing the most important issue facing the come the next general election ? well i go knocking on election? well i go knocking on doors every week and it's raised most doorsteps here in, lancashire. it's a big test for rishi. he has said not that he's going to reduce the number of boats, not that he's to sort of start just sending people back. he has said that we will stop boats this year , will be boats this year, will be supporting him in that over 500,000 people came to our country last year , 450,000 country last year, 450,000 legally. there are plenty of legally. there are plenty of legal routes. let's make sure we stop the banks . jake, sorry to

stop the banks. jake, sorry to cut you off there. but we do need to go. thank you very much for joining me this morning. forjoining me this morning. i'll be speaking to jonathan ashworth just a minute. don't ashworth in just a minute. don't go back go anywhere. we'll be back before it .

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. don't go anywhere . i'm going to be asking john ashworth, the shadow secretary of state for work pensions, of state for work and pensions, in minute. just how well in just a minute. just how well keir starmer knows sue gray. let's try get to the bottom let's try and get to the bottom of great i'll also of this great mystery. i'll also be to chris be speaking to chris heaton—harris, northern heaton—harris, the northern ireland secretary, little ireland secretary, a little later show. but first, later in the show. but first, here's the news headlines with tatiana . camilla thank tatiana sanchez. camilla thank you very much. 10:00, this is the latest from the gb newsroom. train passengers are being hit by the largest hike in rail fares for more than a decade . fares for more than a decade. ticket prices across england and wales are increasing by an average of 5.9, which could add hundreds of pounds to annual season tickets . rail minister season tickets. rail minister hugh merriman says the increase is below inflation, but labour has called it savage . the has called it savage. the independent's travel correspond and simon calder says the

increase isn't fair when it comes to the services currently being provided. the taxpayer who really doesn't want to pay more for what frankly is seven is quite a lousy service. we heard last week for example, that that the number of cancellations on the number of cancellations on the day is at the highest. it's ever been since records began . ever been since records began. so people are, quite frankly, thinking , so people are, quite frankly, thinking, yeah, it's we're paying thinking, yeah, it's we're paying more and we're getting less . the former health less. the former health secretary wanted to, quote, frighten the pants off everyone. that's according to a leaked messages sent during the covid pandemic . the latest whatsapp pandemic. the latest whatsapp conversation published in the sunday telegraph shows matt hancock discussing how to use another strain of the virus to scare the public. he also seemed to take exception to nhs england's chief executive at the time, saying ousting him would be a massive improvement . the be a massive improvement. the duke of sussex has defended his use of drugs, saying some of

them helped him mentally during his latest streamed interview , his latest streamed interview, prince harry spoke to trauma expert dr. gabor motty, who diagnosed him with attention deficit disorder in his memoir, spare harry admitted to regular drug taking, saying he used marijuana in 2015 whilst living in the grounds of kensington palace . now, more than 100 palace. now, more than 100 nafions palace. now, more than 100 nations have completed an historic pact to protect the world's oceans. the legally binding high seas treaty aims to put 30% of seas into protected areas by 2030. very little of the high seas are subject to any protection with pollution and overfishing posing a growing threat . environmental groups say threat. environmental groups say the agreement will help reverse marine losses and ensure sustainable development . the sustainable development. the princess foundation, founded by the king, has partnered with luxury fashion brand chanel to launch an embroider three course for students. six university

graduates will be selected at receiving bursaries for living costs during the 24 week programme held at the king's highgrove home in gloucestershire. it aims to equip and prepare aspiring designers . and venues across designers. and venues across england and wales will be open later over the king's coronation weekend in may . pubs, clubs and weekend in may. pubs, clubs and bars will serve customers for an extra 2 hours between the fifth and the 7th of may. the home circuits are says it so people can have time to go and enjoy an extra pint or two. this is gb news monies related hours back to camilla . to camilla. welcome back to the camilla tominey ni shelby speaking to john ash with the chateau secretary of state for work and pensions in just a jiffy. i'll also be speaking later on to chris heaton—harris, the

northern ireland secretary. and we've carol sikora we've got professor carol sikora in studio to discuss his in the studio to discuss his reaction the lockdown files . reaction to the lockdown files. he's a cancer specialist. he's got of views on whether got a lot of views on whether the was worse the the cure was worse than the disease. so let's speak to him a little later. first, little later. but first, jonathan i joins jonathan ashworth, i hope, joins me can you hear me ? i me now. john, can you hear me? i can. good morning, me now. john, can you hear me? i can. good morning , john. are you can. good morning, john. are you with us? are there you are. i can see you on this bright and breezy sunday morning . now, breezy sunday morning. now, john, tell me this. you're saying that labour now and we remember the old adverts from the 1980s. labour is not working. you're saying that you're now the party to get people from wealth into work. how are you going to do that ? how are you going to do that? absolutely because i'm putting forward serious welfare reforms, because i think there are too many people who are out of work, trapped on welfare , abandoned, trapped on welfare, abandoned, going, no where. and i want to give those people hope and confidence for the future. so i've proposed reforms to the way in which disability and sickness

benefits are assessed to deal with the disincentives in the system. i want to shift power resources to local areas to put proper support into local areas. we've training and reskilling that jobcentre is deliver and when we've got a million young people who are work less and a significant proportion of that are young people who've been out of work for over six months, sometimes for a year. i'm saying these young people should be required to goes to the jobcentre more often to take on training opportunities , because training opportunities, because if you're out of work when you're young, you risk a life on the margins. and we've got to get people back to work. in fact , you know, we've got a big plan as an incoming labour government. if we win people's trust to grow our economy, to sustain nearly raise living standards and part of that is getting more people into jobs and into work. but jeremy hunt's got a budget next week. he could implement my welfare reform plan. but if he does. jonathan. jonathan the plan will be put in

to the public in an election. simple question, jonathan. are labour going to put benefits up or are they going to cut them because welfare bill keeps because the welfare bill keeps on doesn't it ? well, i on going up, doesn't it? well, i mean, people are going to be we're going to be spending £8 billion more on sickness and disability related benefits at the moment. that's under the conservative plans. and i'm saying a lot of people who are out of work often look increasingly that increasingly at our people that work for of mental work for reasons of mental health society and health funding, society and depression for of those depression. for a lot of those people getting into good quality work to help them with their managing their condition, that obviously works. not going to be right for everybody . and, you right for everybody. and, you know, think we all understand know, i think we all understand that and accept that . but there that and accept that. but there are lot of people who say they are a lot of people who say they want work. 1.7 million people want to work. 1.7 million people say they want work with the say they want to work with the right help, but they're not getting any help at the moment. that right. so you that can't be right. so you might benefits into might be cutting benefits into work . well i'm saying if you're work. well i'm saying if you're a young person, if you've been out of work for six months a

year , you should be required to year, you should be required to interact with the jobcentre more regularly . and there are regularly. and there are conditions attached to claiming unemployment benefit . it's unemployment benefit. it's absolutely . but equally equally absolutely. but equally equally , i know that if you can get people into work, then that means they can build a life, provide a home, save for the future . but at the moment, future. but at the moment, people are trapped outwith the barriers in the system. there are barriers to parents moving into work because of the way universal credit operates. so we need to make universal credit work as well. so we've got detail welfare reform proposals . it's new thinking, new reforms from labour, which if the government don't introduce and copy my reforms , then the labour copy my reforms, then the labour government will let speak about somebody who is certainly in work. she's in a new job. she's going to be keir starmer as a new chief of staff. how well does keir starmer know sue gray personally and how long do you think they've been negotiating for this position for her to take this position after leaving service after leaving the civil service 7 after leaving the civil service ? well, i mean, sue gray is a

woman of exceptional, exceptional talent and ability and i think it shows in the same way that senior business people are now supporting labour. how seriously people are taking the prospect of keir starmer as prime minister and a labour government and an intern? it shows how seriously keir starmer is taking preparing for government . if the british government. if the british pubuc government. if the british public put their trust in us. now we've had a very . well, do now we've had a very. well, do they know each other, jonathan ? they know each other, jonathan? i don't. well, i don't know the answer to that, but they're not know. i don't think that people who , you know, social heisserer who, you know, social heisserer actually took over or anything like that. but i think they known each other for years, have a certainly . well, and as a very certainly. well, and as much as sue gray is a senior civil servant and keir starmer was the country's leading prosecutor , putting villains and prosecutor, putting villains and criminals behind bars. so he would have got to know, i'm sure, throughout those years as well . but the sure, throughout those years as well. but the thing the sure, throughout those years as well . but the thing the key well. but the thing the key thing is that she is a woman of

immense integrity. and it shows how seriously people are now taking the prospects of a labour government that someone of that calibre to and calibre is prepared to come and work for us, but they're not taking as serious. now her partygate probe because they think that there's something a bit iffy about links to the bit iffy about her links to the labour party. so your party had this great thing, you had an open goal, you were scoring against boris johnson. he wasn't saving any of these goals because incriminated because partygate incriminated him. and now, because keir starmer has chosen sue gray as his chief of staff, you've undermined her partygate report and you've now looked made. bofis and you've now looked made. boris johnson rightly or wrongly, less culpable than wrongly, look less culpable than he was. that's not good politics. that look, the only person responsible for boris johnson's downfall is boris johnson's downfall is boris johnson . he was the one breaking johnson. he was the one breaking the rules while at the same time putting this country into lockdown . you know, as we seen lockdown. you know, as we seen on the news, to be on your own, on the news, to be on your own,

on the news, to be on your own, on the newspaper you worked for. we've seen the scale of what was going on behind the scenes. it's why we need a proper public inquiry. by the way, all of those messages need to be passed to the inquiry, not needs to the public inquiry, not needs to the public inquiry, not needs to be all needs to be looked up properly of that inquiry. rishi sunak's on with that sunak's got to get on with that inquiry. but at the end of the day, it was boris johnson breaking the rules. seen breaking the rules. we've seen the the evidence the photos and the evidence that's to that's going to the parliamentary isn't parliamentary committee isn't based this report parliamentary committee isn't be based this report parliamentary committee isn't bébased on this report parliamentary committee isn't bébased on their this report parliamentary committee isn't be based on their own his report parliamentary committee isn't be based on their own witness�*t is based on their own witness statements under oath from people who were there. it's based on the whatsapp and the emails that they have seen, but they think boris johnson misled parliament they think parliament while they think he may misled . but but where may have misled. but but where were you then, jonathan? because you were shadow health secretary the files have revealed the lockdown files have revealed that was virtually no that there was virtually no opposition to cavalier decision making in government via whatsapp. so where were you? where was keir starmer ? where where was keir starmer? where was the opposition? question hitting the likes of matt hancock? you just followed everything. the government came up with hook, line and sinker.

we raised concerns throughout that process. in fact, if you remember back in march when we went into lockdown , you warned went into lockdown, you warned me not to play political games. and you pointed out that i was doing one of my interviews with a vintage labour poster in my background when i was raising concerns for example, about the lack of sick pay for people who needed to self—isolate. that was in march 2020. you said the country would not forgive labour employing political gains with applying a applying scrutiny and asking questions of governmental decision making . is it playing decision making. is it playing political games? you can politicise a pandemic and that's exactly thing to do. but judging journalists like me were asking questions . you were shadow questions. you were shadow health secretary. why weren't you asking those questions instead? you just rubber stamped everything. the government did . everything. the government did.

well you supported all of the government's got in your article said in march 2020. so i was asking questions all you since about sick pay. we are as we were. but even even later when the second lockdown the third lockdown showed you one questioning it at all. even though there were concerns over the data we were we questioned we questioned the failure to protect care homes. we questioned sick pay, as you rightly identified in your article, you wrote about me , we article, you wrote about me, we questioned the failure around why areas were not getting more vaccination sooner . we were vaccination sooner. we were questioned why areas like leicester , which i live in, as leicester, which i live in, as you know, and other parts of country were placed in longer lockdowns. we were raising concerns throughout, but equally , equally we also knew also we took a judgement that if the government and the chief scientific advisers were asking us not to vote against the government's lockdown

legislation , then we wouldn't do legislation, then we wouldn't do that because we didn't want to let the virus rip as some of some of it, some of us did. so look, this is why all of the messages need to be properly investigated by an inquiry. i think those who have right . they think those who have right. they pointed out that other countries have had inquiries. why haven't we? that's absolutely right . we? that's absolutely right. rishi sunak now needs to make sure that this inquiry is that they get on with it, that we have some form of preliminary report by the end of the year that ministers hand over all of their messages, that ministers are everything because are deleting everything because we lessons from we do need to learn lessons from that. from what was in many ways not entirely unprecedented because hit us in because pandemics have hit us in the past, but certainly in unprecedented and most people's lifetimes . but are you saying lifetimes. but are you saying that you agree with isabel oakeshott when she has raised concerns about the inquiry being a whitewash , but also this a whitewash, but also this nofion a whitewash, but also this notion of justice delayed being justice denied, then ? i actually justice denied, then? i actually agree with isabel oakeshott on

her point about timing . i still her point about timing. i still have confidence in the people running the inquiry, so i will not associate myself with that bit of a comment . not associate myself with that bit of a comment. but i certainly agree on timing . we certainly agree on timing. we need to get on with this for the countries have got their inquiries. why haven't we? i mean, i think it took a year even to get the terms of reference agreed. i mean, that's a nonsense. but we've got to learn lessons . and by the way, learn lessons. and by the way, i certainly appreciate people have different points of view on this. and that's quite right. you know, people should have different of view. different points of view. but it's in end, it's why actually in the end, you an inquiry to look at you need an inquiry to look at all the ins and outs of this. but and so we can learn lessons and prepare ourselves. should anything this us anything awful like this hit us again quick question, again? final quick question, because i know you knew him well and obviously worked in very close what should close quarters. what should happen to matt hancock now? alison and my newspaper alison pearce and my newspaper review talking about criminal review is talking about criminal charges. that might be a bit of a stretch, but how do you think this health this leaves the former health

secretary well, gosh, i wasn't expecting that question . perhaps expecting that question. perhaps i should have been . well, i i should have been. well, i mean, his political career is ovenisnt mean, his political career is over, isn't it ? i mean, his political career is over, isn't it? i think the mean, his political career is over, isn't it ? i think the key over, isn't it? i think the key thing is, is that he is a councillor himself in front of an inquiry. it comes back to this point, isn't it, why we need this inquiry to take place quickly? a lot of people lost their lives. there's a lot of people who think that the way in which lockdowns operated has had long term implications on all kinds of fronts. yeah, everybody wants an inquiry because everybody wants to be able to see the evidence, to be able to debate it properly and calmly andifs debate it properly and calmly and it's why we need to get on with it. jonathan ashworth , with it. jonathan ashworth, thank you very, very much for joining me this morning. now let's go to olivia utley . she's let's go to olivia utley. she's in windsor. she's with our people's panel really intrigued to find out what they make of all this. olivia, what are they saying there ? well, thank you

saying there? well, thank you very much, camilla. yes without further ado, i'll throw you over to the people's panel. i'm going to the people's panel. i'm going to start with ken, because we didn't to last time. didn't get to him last time. ken, did you make what ken, what did you make of what jonathan jake barry jonathan ashworth and jake barry had that? well, it was had to say that? well, it was all very interesting and they covered as their covered the points. as for their respective political perspectives. but as a two outside me , outside mean questions to me, one both of them, why is one and for both of them, why is it a 30 years after we started to see all the various allegations of sleaze in the major blair years occurring for the nolan committee in the report on the. why is it 30 years later we are still having discussions about you know sleaze have ni the party learned anything from the you know the recent events and why is it still going on. and also to, you know, jonathan ashworth, the question i've got and it really concerns me on one is do concerns me on this one is do not labour appreciate it is not what you actually do . it is how what you actually do. it is how it is perceived by the general pubuc. it is perceived by the general public . and, you know, he said, public. and, you know, he said, look, in that prepared for government and things like that. and i know they trotted out

deborah and or something this week the is the voice of week to say the is the voice of business but it's how it's perceived. i think people perceived. and i think people will looks like will say, oh, it looks like a stitch so he does need stitch up. so he does need a labour need to address the perception and that's been consistently repeated over the years. you why years. it's, you know, why so many politicians what lessons are labour going to learn from this? thanks very much. i can see you nodding your head there. sarah, what did you make of this all? i'm coming back to the never ending brexit story. olivia well, the grandly named winds of agreement. it was interesting to see what jake barry had to say on that. i guess when chris heaton—harris comes on later, perhaps camilla will be asking him whether or not the stormont brake will get the dup back around the table yet. do you think it's important that it's the whole of the uk that it's the whole of the uk that signs up? it's something that signs up? it's something that rishi seems to have pulled off in the last 12 months. what many in the cabinet have been trying to pull off for the last

12 months, the ice seems to be thawing with between us and the eu and ursula von der leyen referred to him as devilish . so referred to him as devilish. so maybe they forgiven us. do you think that might help the conservatives electoral prospects? what i think we have to think together as a country. don't worry about what's best for country. maybe. for the country. yeah, maybe. who knows? thank you very much. and on to europe. i know you have a burning question here. well, it's a comment really . well, it's a comment really. camilla bolt, if i may say very skilfully, a series of leg breaks and googly is that jonathan ashworth and i'm afraid phrase he flailed the bat at the ball and didn't connect with any of them. sadly for him and i think it is potentially in danger of doing what a lot of labour frontbenchers do , which labour frontbenchers do, which is they focus on the symptom end of the problem, but not the actual root cause of the problem . and a case in point is talking

about creation of jobs . well, if about creation of jobs. well, if jonathan is believing that they're going to solve that by opening more jobcentres and frog marching young people into them to sign up forjobs marching young people into them to sign up for jobs , marching young people into them to sign up forjobs , he's to sign up forjobs, he's completely ignoring the creation ofjobs. completely ignoring the creation of jobs . and you create jobs in of jobs. and you create jobs in this country by incentivising business, incentivise in the private sector , and that is done private sector, and that is done through lowering taxes making. i would investment attractive to the country and growing business and that will create the jobs so that's a classic case of focussed on the root cause and the symptoms will magically start to fix themselves. so that's a really interesting point you make because of course we're coming up to the budget and we're expecting to see corporation tax rise in that budget. make that budget. what do you make that it's wrong move it's it's the wrong move and it's surprising coming from a conservative government. the chancellor has the mic in his hand right now and jeremy hunt is planning to raise corporation tax that is a mistake. we should be doing the opposite. yes, we

have to have fiscal responsibility . and i believe responsibility. and i believe that they've put that back on track. but we have to lower taxes to incentivise business to create jobs and prosperity for the country. it couldn't be simpler . the country. it couldn't be simpler. thank you very much, robin. i can see some nods from the rest of the panel here. so at least we've got some agreement here in windsor. but for now, back to you, camilla, in studio. thank you very in the studio. thank you very much for that. olivia this is why i love the people's panel because, robert, because, of course, robert, i shall chris shall be asking chris heaton—harris corporation heaton—harris about corporation tax i'll be tax and. sarah yes, i'll be asking him to whether the brexit deal all smoke and mirrors in deal is all smoke and mirrors in just a i'm going to be just a moment, i'm going to be speaking cancer speaking to the cancer specialist, sikora, specialist, karol sikora, about the files how the lockdown files and how cancer has been affected by cancer care has been affected by the don't anywhere. the pandemic. don't go anywhere. we'll .

welcome back to the camilla tominey show . now welcome back to the camilla tominey show. now i'm welcome back to the camilla tominey show . now i'm joined by tominey show. now i'm joined by professor carol sikora, oncologist and lead in lockdown critic naturally, professor, i want to ask you for your reaction to the lockdown files. i know you've read them because i've seen you tweeting about them. what are your initial thoughts about that? investigate i was pretty horrified and really forward to the really looked forward to the pubuc really looked forward to the public inquiry, but it'll a public inquiry, but it'll be a whitewash. people are backtracking. only i never backtracking. the only i never said you know, the said that you know, the whatsapps that were released this week that shows the sort of level of thinking, the level of incompetence at a medical that why do you say the inquiry will be a whitewash? because lady who's chairing the inquiry says absolutely not, that they're going look everything very going to look at everything very comprehensively, have going to look at everything very c(timeehensively, have going to look at everything very c(timeehensiv

advisers have on so they advisers have moved on so they don't stand to don't really stand to lose anything. it would be anything. and it would be different a consultant in different if a consultant in a hospital , different if a consultant in a hospital, oncologist like myself, was accused of doing something wrong. three ago something wrong. three years ago and then there was required who found fault ? your career would found fault? your career would be at stake , but it's not here be at stake, but it's not here and that's perhaps the biggest problem the inquiry. let me problem with the inquiry. let me just read one of your tweets back to you, because i was intrigued this. you said intrigued by this. you said i avoided individual avoided initial individual criticism of politicians during the pandemic , but going to the pandemic, but i'm going to make exception, hancock make my first exception, hancock was a poor health secretary pre—covid and an even worse one dunng pre—covid and an even worse one during the way cancer was pushed to one side was on forgivable , to one side was on forgivable, not a legacy to be proud of . has not a legacy to be proud of. has the files then made you the lockdown files then made you even more negative in your thinking about health secretary ? how would you evaluate his performance during the pandemic? very poor. was poor before very poor. it was poor before and most health minister struggle with it because they're not. i have no expertise in health care by definition, and they come into power very few medical medically qualified. and

the problem they have is the nhs is such a huge mess basically. and no one can touch it because we're all in love with our nhs . we're all in love with our nhs. but shouldn't we pay? i mean, the nhs is where we turn when we're in our darkest hour. and often times i know the media focuses on the negative stories, you know, the nhs on a minute by minute basis is saving people's lives. fantastic . a major lives. it's fantastic. a major trauma, the best place to be in europe. cancer when it works, when you can access the system. fantastic care , heart disease fantastic care, heart disease the same you can have stent operations put in if you have a heart attack all around the country. now so we all very good . what's not so good is access to it, starting with the gp then going through emergency rooms where you wait hours before you get seen. a lot of people are put off by this and british people are very stoic, especially men that have a high, high threshold before something really troubles them enough to

do something about it. it's been helped by one man, mum, the telephone answering service . but telephone answering service. but it's not all the way and we've got to encourage people to use the service. and of course what lockdown did was scare the world. so let's talk about that fright in the pants off. did it frighten the pants off? cancer patients ? it did. there's no patients? it did. there's no doubt. patients? it did. there's no doubt . the problem, first of doubt. the problem, first of all, was getting first appointment with the gp. without that, you couldn't proceed . one that, you couldn't proceed. one woman could do so much , but it woman could do so much, but it would end up telling you go and get appointment with your gp get an appointment with your gp if that, you if you couldn't do that, you were of stuck. you had to were sort of stuck. you had to be referred for a scan or for a biopsy from a hospital , which biopsy from a hospital, which meant to go through meant you had to go through primary system primary care because the system works the gatekeeper. the gp works for the gatekeeper. the gp is essentially the gatekeeper to the empire or of the nhs. the whole empire or of the nhs. so that was the problem. did you feel there was a sense to feel that there was a sense to which gp's had gone to wall which gp's had gone to a wall dunng which gp's had gone to a wall during pandemic? mean you during the pandemic? i mean you could from a could understand it from a pubuc could understand it from a public point of view. you public health point of view. you don't want to have a of don't want to have a load of largely elderly people in a doctor's surgery mingling amongst themselves in first

amongst themselves in the first wave. to do something, wave. they had to do something, didn't barrier didn't they, to create a barrier between patients spreading it among i think among themselves. i think charities, many of them handled it extremely well. a few as few consultants handled it badly and used the opportunity to take houday used the opportunity to take holiday and so on. but i think the problem is exactly as you say , you couldn't actually walk say, you couldn't actually walk into a gp surgery anymore. it was very restricted. i remember a collection from for a neighbour and i had to get the piece of paper out of it and they shouted at me and i came through the door because there was a line they weren't meant to cross the line. i mean, i hadn't been there for years, so i didn't you had to do that. didn't know you had to do that. it that sort of fear and the it was that sort of fear and the adverts in the papers every day. if the especially the at if the especially the one at piccadilly the woman piccadilly circus with the woman with the mask on it was clearly dying. so your fault, dying. and so your fault, because not obeying because you're not obeying the rules happened to rules that this has happened to this and it was, of this poor lady. and it was, of course, an actress, even course, an actress, but even still, fair inducing. and still, it was fair inducing. and i that was what was wrong i think that was what was wrong with it. can we can can we kind of calculate out how many missed

cancer diagnoses there might have ? the only we can have been? the only way we can do it, camilla, is retrospectively in two or three years time, we could look at the death rate for cancer. it takes a long time before you start seeing the curve go up. but what's your i mean, what's your fear? i mean, obviously you're coming into obviously you're now coming into this pandemic, and i did this post pandemic, and i did some interviews at barts recently, head of breast recently, and the head of breast cancer surgery there was saying that was finding people had that she was finding people had presented with presented too late with conditions had they conditions that had they presented earlier would have been easy deal been much more easy to deal with. about younger with. also saying about younger people i don't know people coming, i don't know whether that's a trend it is. you is a strange you know, cancer is a strange disease. 90% of people can be cured if it's early, if it's stage one, that's confined to the organ, it arrives breast, lung, colon, prostate . but if it lung, colon, prostate. but if it goes to stage three, goes to nodes elsewhere in the body that influence elsewhere in the body, then drops to 25% and stage then it drops to 25% and stage four less than 10. for most cancers . so this four less than 10. for most cancers. so this is the problem . and these waiting lists, i mean , what are you experiencing mean, what are you experiencing on an on a personal basis with

your own patients and what's the general picture of cancer care? i mean, these waiting lists seem to be not just months long, but in times, years long. it's going to take years to clear them. the biggest problem is getting into the system, getting the diagnosis made, getting the scan, getting the endoscopy to choose to put down the time from diagnosis to treatment. the target is 62 days, which is very generous, and too that's months. so you'd sue in america if you had to wait two months for cancer treatment, knowing you had cancer. and that's the target. and it's missed in something like 40% of patients at the moment. something like 40% of patients at the moment . and that's just at the moment. and that's just not good enough. final question, professor. some professor. there was some criticism today's from criticism in today's paper from the whatsapp messages of simon stevens , some quite unpleasant stevens, some quite unpleasant remarks that were made about matt about his matt hancock, about his management of the nhs. you management of the nhs. do you concur with that? what's your reaction briefly, reaction to that? briefly, i thought street was thought simon street was a breath of fresh. yeah, he came from the states. he was english, breath of fresh. yeah, he came fronhe|e states. he was english, breath of fresh. yeah, he came fronhe came:es. he was english, breath of fresh. yeah, he came fron he came from e was english, breath of fresh. yeah, he came fronhe came from theas english, breath of fresh. yeah, he came fron he came from the statesish, but he came from the states having run a big insurance company, health insurance

company. think he was very company. i think he was very effective. deserve to be effective. did he deserve to be trashed these messages? no, trashed in these messages? no, he think it was he really didn't. i think it was incompetent people on the whole trying to trash competent people . and that's probably what what happened. . and that's probably what what happened . thank you very much happened. thank you very much for me this morning. forjoining me this morning. professor sikora, lovely to see you. coming up, going to you. now coming up, i'm going to be to northern ireland be speaking to northern ireland secretary heaton—harris. secretary chris heaton—harris. but the with but first, here's the news with tatiana sanchez . camilla, thank tatiana sanchez. camilla, thank you and good morning. it's 1031. you and good morning. it's1031. i'm tatiana sanchez. this is the latest from the gb news room train passengers are being hit by the largest hike in rail fares for more than a decade. train prices across england and wales are increasing by an average of 5.9, which could add hundreds of pounds to annual fees and tickets. rail minister hugh merriman says the increase is below inflation, but labour has called it savage . the you has called it savage. the you can . the duke of sussex has

can. the duke of sussex has defended his use of drugs , defended his use of drugs, saying some of them helped him mentally. during his latest streamed interview , prince harry streamed interview, prince harry spoke to trauma expert dr. gabor motty , who diagnosed him with motty, who diagnosed him with attention deficit disorder and. his memoir, spare. harry admitted to regular drug taking, saying he used marijuana in 2015 whilst living in the grounds of kensington palace. harry also spoke the death of his mother, princess diana , who died when he princess diana, who died when he was just 12 years old and than 100 nations have completed an historic pact to protect the world's oceans. the legally binding high seas treaty aims to put 30% of seas into protected areas by 2030. very little of the high seas is subject to any protection with pollution and overfishing posing a growing threat . environmental groups say threat. environmental groups say the agreement will help prevent marine losses and ensure sustain able development . tv online and

able development. tv online and tv plus radio. this is tv news.

welcome back to the camilla tominey show on this sunday morning. now i'm delighted to be joined by northern ireland secretary chris heaton—harris in the studio. of course , chris, the studio. of course, chris, i need to ask you about the windsor framework now. if you don't going just don't mind, i'm going to just quote littlejohn in the quote richard littlejohn in the daily said shouldn't daily mail. he said it shouldn't be the windsor framework. be called the windsor framework. it called the barbara it should be called the barbara windsor front and windsor framework all front and no this actually no knickers. is this actually just a smoke and mirrors job? because haven't from because we haven't heard from brexiteers they like it. brexiteers that they like it. the holding their council the dup's holding their council . you're saying this great .you're saying it's this great deal .you're saying it's this great deal. it got support of deal. why it got the support of your party. well, i mean, your own party. well, i mean, actually, it's got quite actually, i think it's got quite broad and certainly broad support and certainly business in business groups and others in northern ireland definitely support it. however i mean, i used to chair the european

research group. i like a unionist community and other euroskeptics. i felt been burned a couple of times in the past, and so it was determined not to make mistakes that have been made in the past by bouncing people into things or whatever so published everything on so we published everything on monday. legal, tech , control, monday. legal, tech, control, paper we've given everybody is giving everybody as much space and time as they need to understand that actually this is way more than what richard littlejohn described it as. you know, there is this treaty changes in here that the european union has to do. there's massive legal tax law. you law that's essentially being binned. there's a whole host of things in here that actually , as things in here that actually, as euroskeptic, i was always told, the effects of european law only went one way. it's going the other way. there are lots and lots of principle and indeed practical things in here, but it does take a bit of reading but

you've got to build cash. you let's face it, is the ultimate veteran eurosceptic tick. he's written in the telegraph today and quite sceptical. and he's quite sceptical. they've star chamber they've got their star chamber of looking at you of lawyers looking at it. as you know, all these documents are know, all of these documents are open interpretation. open to legal interpretation. what's is the uk's what's interesting is the uk's interpretation obviously differs from my colleague from the eu's. my colleague james crisp has done this piece this morning about maurice cavic telling his own eu committees in brussels committees . oh well, brussels committees. oh well, actually it doesn't hand back full sovereignty. i don't know the stormont brake, it's quite limited . so. so which is it? so limited. so. so which is it? so to be fair, this don't break is quite limited because it only appues quite limited because it only applies to because we've got rid of a huge swathe of eu law. it's quite limited to the 3% that remains for nought for northern ireland. you know, eu law hasn't actually diverged much from ours at point in time. we've at this point in time. we've only european union only left the european union recently there's been bit recently and there's been a bit of going on in of covid stuff going on in between in the future, and that's what the stormont brake is for in that very limited slice of eu law that's left, which gives northern ireland businesses access to the

european single market. that's why the stolen brexit. so there is a veto and it is a veto if used and goes all the way through the system of . two of through the system of. two of two parties, 30 employees triggering this process then yeah , i think when people yeah, i think when people actually read that and understand that the batch of eu law that's left is just limited to allowing access to businesses to allowing access to businesses to the single market, they'll why ? that's actually quite why? that's actually quite pragmatic. do you agree that the dup are going to struggle this idea that they haven't got full sovereign take over northern ireland and therefore if this deal doesn't bring stormont back together , then what's the point together, then what's the point of it would have been a failure ? so mean, the one of ? yeah. so i mean, the one of the main points of this is to try to solve the problem for the unionist community. it wasn't just democratic unionist party politicians, it was the unionist community who were who could not see if you came across the great britain, they saw different

goods on the shops, shops , goods on the shops, shops, shelves and supermarket shelves because people were not moving goods across the irish sea because of the protocol of what they saw, wasn't it ? you they saw, wasn't it? you couldn't reduce vat on solar panels as a government, couldn't reduce vat on solar panels as a government , the panels as a government, the whole united kingdom, all those things solved and future problems that were going to come from the protocol parcels , which from the protocol parcels, which was going to be subject to full customs the not too distant customs in the not too distant future. being able to move your pets around. okay but the unionist states support it. and indeed the brexit is that you're very close to because of your former status in the then it's going to be really politically difficult for the tory party to get across the line. i mean, i'm sure it'll pass with labour, but i mean politically to get it across the line if you don't have those key caucuses of support. not, i'm not support. yeah, i'm not, i'm not in that place to say oh yes, everybody's going to be on board and , does matter if and actually, does it matter if the aren't? i want the brexiteers aren't? i want everybody to be on on board, but i do want everybody because of because what's happened in because of what's happened in the completely

the past. i completely understand and the understand the reticence and the wanting go through the detail wanting to go through the detail which is why i welcome it. i genuinely welcome because there is in this and is way more in in this and i think people initially give give it credit for and as i say, that's a very high level principle, things that we've never been able to before where even when we were members of the european union and indeed it guarantees northern ireland's place in our union as we move forward. can i move on to other matters and talk to about matters and talk to you about civil service impartiality? we've reports we've had a couple of reports today about case's today about simon case's involvement the involvement in some of the whatsapp files the whatsapp files that the telegraph exposed . at one telegraph have exposed. at one point talks about lockdown point he talks about lockdown positions being conservative ideology. people have questioned why he use that terminology. do you still have faith in simon case as cabinet secretary? i do, actually. have. i have worked actually. i have. i have worked with closely. i was with him quite closely. i was the government chief whip under under boris for a period of time. and he's always given me completely independent i'm professional yeah , i professional advice. so yeah, i absolutely and then absolutely do. okay. and then do you have faith in the fact that sue gray was impartial when she

did her partygate report now that, she's become that, you know, she's to become keir of staff? keir starmer's, chief of staff? i've sue gray in my i've worked with sue gray in my role as northern ireland secretary , and she's always been secretary, and she's always been completely proper and professional with professional in my dealings with her. a labour politicians in the past have raised lots of questions about civil servants who've immediately moved into positions on the other side of the fence . you know, poached the fence. you know, poached gamekeeper type player or gamekeeper type player or gamekeeper type player or gamekeeper type poacher. maybe in the past . gamekeeper type poacher. maybe in the past. so i can understand why it's raised eyebrows. i think the simplest way to solve this situation is for keir starmer's team, just to publish all the information, all the messages and stuff they have with sue gray that that that time. because i think i'd like to think everything be completely full transparency. what would you like to be published? well, i think i think the way to clarify this is for kerry and his team just to pubush kerry and his team just to publish all the between them and sue gray right at the time of the at the time of this

questionable time. because i'm quite sure what will come out of that will be there is nothing. and if it isn't, what if it's revealed that sue gray and close and they were in communications dunng and they were in communications during the partygate inquiry. and i think it will prove the opposite but i think opposite actually. but i think we need that kind of we do need that kind of clarification. generally, all you concerned about the effect on the conservative party of these lockdown files, they don't cast matt hancock in a particularly good light. you worked under boris johnson. he does live up to his reputation as dominic described him as a shopping trolley . he takes shopping trolley. he takes opinions canvasses opinions. opinions and canvasses opinions. he can't seem to take a decision. he then gets pushed around by the of michael around by the likes of michael gove and matt hancock, who was really running the country through because through the pandemic because it doesn't seem it was boris johnson then. think it was johnson then. i think it was bofis johnson then. i think it was boris johnson. i'm borisjohnson. but i, i'm afraid, know , i'm quite sure afraid, you know, i'm quite sure it was johnson. i wasn't it was boris johnson. i wasn't in the room at that point time. so actually i wasn't even on so or actually i wasn't even on the remote zoom at that point. but no, the wider cabinet weren't consulted on decision

making . that's i don't think making. that's i don't think that's true, actually , because that's true, actually, because you rubber stamp stuff when you you rubber stamp stuff when you you were given unfettered. no, that's that's not true either. there are across cabinet committees that met virtually all the way through this . all the way through this. decisions were taken properly . decisions were taken properly. decisions were taken properly. decisions were taken properly. decisions were made in any of them. there was and was in a them. there was and i was in a handful of ones involving transport. covid the transport. but the covid and the covid group. what happened covid topic group. what happened was this decision making shrunk to basically hancock gove, rishi sunak and johnson and a few key advisers . the wider cabinet advisers. the wider cabinet weren't really involved in any of the major decision making, so i'm not sure that is true. and why you actually probably need the to demonstrate the inquiry to demonstrate this because attend some covid because i did attend some covid own meetings it came to own meetings when it came to transport and did very much transport and i did very much articulate a particular view which of my which was the view of my officials judgement on officials and my judgement on all measures at the time. did rishi sunak's eat out to help out spread coronavirus and does he now have questions to answer 7 he now have questions to answer ? that's what hancock said. he just what you're what you're seeing i think in mass messages , as i say, all decisions were

taken and recorded by civil servants and taken properly at all. and that's also what you're seeing, i think, is what you've never seen before. and you wouldn't be able to it for wouldn't be able to see it for previous pandemics. certainly is a mass thinking the a kind of mass thinking at the time the scenes, what was time behind the scenes, what was going his highlighting going through his highlighting looked like of looked like like like sort of snakes in viper's nest. it's extraordinary, for to extraordinary, isn't it, for to be having a at sunak for a policy that was meant to help businesses. yeah. i mean, the government at the time, the government at the time, the government at the time, the government at the time was trying to both protect nhs, trying to both protect the nhs, protect british people, protect the economy . it was real. and the economy. it was real. and these are unbelievably difficult things. so tried to undermine the chancellor and remember the reports had today , reports that we've had today, this was vaccine when this was pre vaccine when testing was limited , it was testing was limited, it was really generally different on each government. i mean , it's each government. i mean, it's interesting, but the department has its own views and each minister has its own views and you come to a collective decision and when you've taken that collective decision, that is delivered and that is is what's delivered and that is the process of government. now,

what seeing of what you're seeing is kind of like before is the like this before this is the meat we get to the meat before we get to the sausage making. do recognise sausage making. do you recognise some you know, a lot of some of the, you know, a lot of antagonism is come to the fore here. you recognise was here. do you recognise that was going time? did you going on at the time? did you know that you know that you had hancock briefing against sunak and it. i'm and all the rest of it. i'm i didn't but i'm quite sure that i myself i know we're all human beings in politics, all have our own so i'm not own opinion. so i'm not surprised people surprised that people have different quick different opinions. final quick question. tax, question. your opinion on tax, because story in the because we've got a story in the telegraph today saying dozens of us firms steer clear of uk following hunt's raid. he's following hunt's tax raid. he's taxing particularly taxing businesses particularly too an entity needs to too much as an entity needs to scrap corporation tax hike. scrap this corporation tax hike. otherwise businesses won't be investing in britain. you must be about that. well, be worried about that. well, i'm glad not chancellor, glad i'm not the chancellor, because a proper because i think it's a proper dilemma. he were, would dilemma. if he were, would you cut the corporation? that's cut the corporation? and that's a question. i'd like to. a good question. i'd like to. i'd to answer i'd like to straight answer would i'm i can't give would be great. i'm i can't give you i don't the you because i don't know the whole situation. would you. well okay let's, put it this way. do you agree corporate and tax you agree with corporate and tax going 6? i agree that i going up by 6? so i agree that i was you i'm very lucky to

was you know, i'm very lucky to have student art have been a student of art laffer in the time. and i do believe there a spot where believe there is a spot where you get more tax in. we can't be in this level. so i do. i generally when businesses are approaching their approaching britain in their droves, believe that's droves, i don't believe that's the either because mean, the case either because i mean, i have businesses i know if you have businesses investing in northern ireland and that sits on border with and that sits on a border with a country has a corporation country that has a corporation tax, be nothing. tax, it would be nothing. a corporation no. corporation tax that. no. wouldn't must be wouldn't you? you must be looking ireland. you're there looking at ireland. you're there all looking the all the time, looking at the republic. getting inward republic. they're getting inward investment, they're making films, making tv shows. films, they're making tv shows. we're here. we're saying to people to invest, oh, people who want to invest, oh, we're going tax 6% more, it's complete madness, isn't it? well, also a global well, there's also a global corporation that's likely well, there's also a global corp�*inition that's likely well, there's also a global corp�*in at n that's likely well, there's also a global corp�*in at somethat's likely well, there's also a global corp�*in at some point..ikely well, there's also a global corp�*in at some point. we.y well, there's also a global corp�*in at some point. we pay kick in at some point. we pay more against france more competitive against france and the point of and germany. what's the point of brexit well let's say and germany. what's the point of bthink well let's say and germany. what's the point of bthink this well let's say and germany. what's the point of bthink this will well let's say and germany. what's the point of bthink this will workl let's say and germany. what's the point of bthink this will work in et's say and germany. what's the point of bthink this will work in the say i think this will work in the future. do you think he's going to cut this corporation? i know i but would you like him to i did, but would you like him to come ? because i don't know the come? because i don't know the whole picture. it's really difficult. all right. my gosh . difficult. all right. my gosh. my difficult. all right. my gosh. my personal. very, very personal preference. my guts would say, yes know the whole

yes but i don't know the whole picture. yes. scrap not picture. yes. to scrap it. not not to scrap the hike of the high to have a competitive corporation time. all right. thank very much indeed. thank you very much indeed. that's the that's chris heaton—harris, the northern secretary, northern ireland secretary, arlene former first arlene foster, former first minister for northern ireland, and gb news presenter from 11, who is covering portillo show, was just listening to that interview. what you make of interview. what did you make of what heaton—harris to what chris heaton—harris had to say ? hi, carmella. good to be say? hi, carmella. good to be with you and looking forward to speaking to jeffrey donaldson on my show at 11:00. no doubt we'll be talking about that. chris heaton—harris interview, which you've just conducted and in particular what he thinks of maros sefcovic. his comments reported in the daily telegraph today in relation to fact that he thinks the windsor framework was simply designed to avoid negative headlines in the uk press and would not hand back full sovereignty to the uk over northern ireland. so that's a very interesting take on the windsor framework . i would windsor framework. i would imagine a very unhelpful take from the uk government's point of view. but i'll be asking jeffrey donaldson about that

this as as all my this morning as well as all my other guests. so look forward seeing you at 11 . really looking seeing you at 11. really looking forward, really looking to that. arlene, always good to get your view. good weekend to have you on covering portillo please do to tune in to that show at 11 but first it's the generation gapifs but first it's the generation gap it's my favourite section of the show so just get excited about it, carol. i'm joined by carole malone and tv presenter and benjamin butterworth, journalist extraordinaire . we journalist extraordinaire. we were all together, weren't we? on friday night. so you were to bnng on friday night. so you were to bring our social lives into it? when i was watching sports, yeah, had a bit of a quote yeah, i had a bit of a quote from next morning because i from the next morning because i was screaming abba revival. was screaming to abba revival. jim couldn't jim but you didn't. we couldn't hear it hundreds hear ourselves. it was hundreds of, you know, not it was good fun. it was good fun. let's get onto the subject the onto the subject of the generation agree generation gap. can we agree that, carol, are old enough that, carol, you are old enough to benjamin's mother? i'm to be benjamin's mother? i'm probably older to be a grandma, right? glad you've at right? yeah. glad you've at least i my least me. yes. i mean, my mother's actually only 40, so. oh shut me. it's happening right now. to discuss now. we're going to discuss because he's the man of the

moment again can't away moment again. we can't get away from him . borisjohnson. we'll from him. boris johnson. we'll see good pm. so let's start see a good pm. so let's start with ben. no, he wasn't a good prime minister. come now. he won a big mandate. he's got an 80 seat majority. i appreciate. it's squandered, the it's been squandered, but the man elect all don't die. doesn't that show just what a poor prime minister was? that he's not minister he was? that he's not in post three years later? you know, boris johnson is much better getting rid prime better at getting rid of prime ministers than is being prime ministers than he is being prime minister i that's real minister i think that's his real skill. truth is that he skill. and the truth is that he managed that big managed to get that big majority, although you it majority, although if you put it in context blair, it in the context of tony blair, it was nothing like as popular as tony terms of the tony blair was in terms of the number of seats that he would. and he worked out well, by the way, he managed to lose the way, that he managed to lose the trust the country, consist trust of the country, consist only until he stepped only last year until he stepped down majority the down that vast majority of the british over 60% in british public, over 60% in every poll for six months, wanted him to go. can i come in and get him to you? can i come in? he managed to lose the faith of his own mp and he managed to lose the faith of many international out international allies. i was out of good minister boris

of good prime minister boris will always be the prime minister who brought about brexit. decision brexit. the biggest decision any government made this government has made this century. he's the he was the prime minister who presided over covid worst pandemic to hit covid the worst pandemic to hit this country in 100 years. he was the minister who was the prime minister who oversaw worst collapse of oversaw the worst collapse of growth . in 300 years in this growth. in 300 years in this country. and, you know, in 100 years time, people will talk about him as a person of consequence and interest. and it is incredible. even now, before i get to that, he got the red wall. he was the only tory prime minister ever to get the red wall. he did get the red. he got the red wall. no no. what it does mean if it's lost that but if it is lost, it's not about him . it's the red wall. him. it's about the red wall. looking what the tory party looking at what the tory party did to itself, eating itself alive. that's why they're not going vote for them. but but going to vote for them. but but i i think the bottom line i think i think the bottom line is he when i look at is he's he he when i look at when i look at politics now without he admitted dreary without he admitted it's dreary everyone in the tory party who was to replace him or the was going to replace him or the people standing would

people who were standing would really morton doesn't have really penny morton doesn't have his doesn't his character. she doesn't have his character. she doesn't have his flair. rishi certainly doesn't irish. she's since she's beenin doesn't irish. she's since she's been in power, he's like people say he's the quiet man working behind the scenes. you know, he's man like he's the where he's the man like he's the where the he manages never the hell is he manages never envisage rishi very much in his electoral cabinet . we had electoral cabinet. we had a former party chairman, jake berry. i appreciate you to supporter, but he was basically saying that this is the only guy that can win the general election for the conservatives regardless of his critics. ben wallace, cat to some wallace, cat nip to some sections of britain. i mean, i think it reveals a poverty expectations politicians expectations of our politicians . if boris who is a big . if boris johnson, who is a big thing to voters and politicians in years into power it was the of this country actually know lots of people i know who don't but lots of people felt he had the boris factor that he liked the boris factor that he liked the beer reached parts that others can't. yeah but the thing is i would defend rishi sunak or theresa may to some extent but theresa may to some extent but theresa may to some extent but theresa may because i think because i think they are

respectable . they have the respectable. they have the interests of public office that honest and decent, even if i don't agree with some of their conclusions, boris is conclusions, boris johnson is dishonest . and i that dishonest. and i think that someone like is uniquely unsuitable to be prime minister. do you really think , benjamin, do you really think, benjamin, that the people who are pushing him out of power now let's face this. this was a coup between labour and remainers . do you labour and remainers. do you really think they gave a about a few glasses of wine being taken in downing street? they saw the partygate as an excuse to get him out. i mean , use that him out. i mean, use that excuse, carol. i think i feel really like carol howell. let me pick you up on that, because i think that's really insulting to most of british people . you most of the british people. you just , well, it was rude , just say, well, it was rude, didn't say it was stupid at all. but i think that's rude to the people because most people follow rules, even if they follow the rules, even if they didn't like it. and i remember when pots gate was happening, i went the red wall went round all the red wall seats of and over seats that all of that. and over whelming the people who had voted for boris johnson in these red wall seats were furious at

him. my grandmother was him. yes, my grandmother was like grandmother who helped bofis like grandmother who helped boris johnson . and it's always boris johnson. and it's always voted conservative. she couldn't stand one thing at a time. let's make she couldn't stand him because was honest. and because he was dis honest. and that's what matters. that is a bafic that's what matters. that is a basic that should come before possible. you really so naive. you all politicians are you think all politicians are honest ? i he's the honest? no, i think he's the most. what? i think most. so what? i think interesting you know, interesting is that, you know, recently came, recently when zelenskyy came, i thought it interesting that thought it was interesting that zelenskyy about boris , zelenskyy spoke about boris, talked about boris, talks about them was still he was them like was still pm. he was he was actually praising boris and i think that's the thing that he's still he is still you caught him if he's exactly that he's gold and since he's electoral gold and since he's electoral gold and since he's gone you would think that the tories would have picked up maybe, you know they haven't labour's ahead and labour's 28 points ahead and there a poll done week there was a poll done last week i a bit to be fair, there i think a bit to be fair, there was a savanta poll last week that just to a 14 points ahead will. they all said there will. but they all said if there was tomorrow that was an election tomorrow that the tories would only have 30 seats in parliament. i mean that would be unprecedented. do you

do appreciate as well, carol? i think surely that there are some people who are put off the conservative party by, boris johnson, they might of johnson, they might be more of a kind home counties persuasion kind of home counties persuasion , metropolitan londoners , but at , metropolitan londoners, but at the same time, some people absolutely visceral absolutely have a visceral hatred man . yeah, i do hatred of this man. yeah, i do know that. i think they're know that. and i think they're the who are pushing him the people who are pushing him out, i think, you out, you know. do i think, you know, you've to look know, you've you've got to look at politicians for, you know, their energy. they excite that. they and i think boris they create. and i think boris will talked about in 100 will be talked about in 100 years as as you know, has as a landmark prime minister, a man who brought a landslide eight years ago to the left . isn't it, years ago to the left. isn't it, benjamin, that probably the only person at person with personality shadow personality on that shadow frontbench is angela rayner she's get anywhere she's not going to get anywhere near levers of keir near the levers of power. keir starmer's vanilla , people starmer's like vanilla, people are me. i mean i think wes are like me. i mean i think wes streeting has a great need, a personal wes streeting the most ambitious in the labour ambitious man in the labour party, think he's not leader party, i think he's not leader though. i think he will be one day. right. you know, the day. right. but you know, the truth boris johnson truth about boris johnson is that buying your that he's all buying your notebook. brilliant

notebook. so he's a brilliant speaken notebook. so he's a brilliant speaker. i would if speaker. you know, if i would if i were to get invited to a keynote speech, we're having an after dinner occasion tonight for i mean. yes, for a no balls. i mean. yes, exactly . good phrase. that's exactly. good phrase. that's actually . actually, a lot of actually. actually, a lot of people have got quite fundamental problems now of trying to pay their bills and keep their jobs and things. i think they're grateful for think they're quite grateful for someone serious someone who's serious rather than that's what than silly. and that's what we've long. would just we've had long. i would just point out with staff, just point out with staff, i just look at happened with sue look at what's happened with sue gray and starmer this week. starmer has chasing so starmer has been chasing so great. and how moral great. how noble and how moral is that? yes, how noble have moral that, benjamin? that's moral is that, benjamin? that's a question it's a decision a good question. it's a decision for sue gray rather for for sue gray rather than for kids. he knows exactly what he's doing. son has done is hired doing. his son has done is hired someone is widely is someone who is widely is exceptionally capable . remind us exceptionally capable. remind us this to jonathan ashworth. he's undermined the value of the party investigation into boris johnson. he's now caused a question mark to be hanging aboveit question mark to be hanging above it because of his appointment of sue gray was she impartial? she that impartial? wasn't she that suspect cannot own goal politically . i remember the politically. i remember the guest you just had on arlene

foster talking about how when sue gray was running northern ireland, was exceptional and ireland, she was exceptional and she and so i do she was very fair. and so i do think you want speak to that think you want to speak to that was reasonable at the time. i was reasonable at the time. i was against all the telling us when he first started the courts. so he's been courts. so great. he's been boasting for now. have boasting for months now. have how known and he how long he's known and that he offered as a job months ago. we need to know exactly when because we do not want compromise. report compromise. her party get report and timely. i think all of that is to find excuse is to is trying to find excuse is to defend the things that boris johnson is we know that i know because of party. we know that bofis because of party. we know that boris johnson is three cabinet ministers the prime minister ministers and the prime minister so to know that the so we have to know that the person writing report was person writing that report was a person writing that report was a person unimpeachable person of unimpeachable integrity. now that has been integrity. and now that has been to everyone. tory so do you feel like to leave it there ? like we need to leave it there? thank you very much about generation gap i'm of course generation gap as i'm of course back next 930. but up back next week at 930. but up next it's arlene foster .

i'm jacob rees—mogg, the member of parliament for north east somerset and a former government minister. for years i've walked the corridors of power in both westminster and the city of london. campaigned in the london. i campaigned in the largest vote largest democratic vote in ireland story. i know this country so much to be proud country has so much to be proud of. we need to have the arguments, discussions on how we make better, the wisdom of make it better, the wisdom of the in its people, the nation is in its people, folks populi, vox day. that's why i'm joining the people's channel. join me monday and thursday at 8 pm. on gb news. britain's news . britain's news. channel good morning and welcome to sunday with arlene foster standing in for the wonderful michael portillo with 2 hours of

good conversation. ocean arts, entertainment, ethical dilemmas and a little bit of a sense of the ridiculous two coming up . the ridiculous two coming up. prime minister rishi sunak almost a clear run this week with his plans to resolve the situation in northern ireland with the windsor framework and then former pm boris johnson weighed in, saying he'd find it difficult to vote for the deal. where that northern ireland where does that northern ireland and of the uk? county and the rest of the uk? county lines gangs create misery for many , especially those who are many, especially those who are caught up in what's termed cuckooing. this is where their home is taken over by the criminals and used to store drugs or the proceeds of a crime. should be new laws crime. should there be new laws to down this practise to crack down on this practise and henry, the two queens. 500 years after their death . three years after their death. three united by prayer at a new exhibition of ambulance childhood at home. all that and classical music legend julian lloyd webber. all the after the news with tatiana sanchez .

news with tatiana sanchez. arlene, thank you