fri day new friday new director on the show , new director on the show, andreas. he's a brave man. welcome to mark dolan tonight. in my big opinion, the whatsapp from matt hancock show . the from matt hancock show. the pandemic response was about headune pandemic response was about headline things, not health. and they laughed . they knocked us they laughed. they knocked us down more fool us for submitting to government tyranny. never again. that's my big opinion and. it's coming. my mark meets guest is robin tilbrook, the chairman of the english democrats with relentless talk of scottish independence and with clyde, come free and wales enjoying growing support. we'll be asking why english independence is not a greater talking point. would you like to see an english parliament, for example what is the big question? did fail to provide opposition even during the pandemic. we'll debate that with ann widdecombe and a former labour government minister. ann widdecombe and a former labour government minister . and labour government minister. and it might take its head and boris won power with three magic words get brexit done well rishi sunak

can do the same with three new ones. stop the boats. lots to get through. but first, the headunes get through. but first, the headlines with karen armstrong . headlines with karen armstrong. have a good evening to you out. i'm here in the gb newsroom. matt hancock wanted to, quote, frighten the pants off everyone to ensure public compliance , to ensure public compliance, constantly changing covid leaked whatsapp messages in the sunday telegraph show how the former health secretary and his team discussed how to utilise fear and guilt to make people obey lockdown as they shout, shadow work and pensions secretary jonathan ashworth told us mr. hancock's political career is over.i hancock's political career is over . i think hancock's political career is over. i think the key thing is, is that he is a councillor himself in front of an inquiry. it comes back to this point isn't it, why we need this inquiry to take place quickly . a inquiry to take place quickly. a lot of people lost their lives . lot of people lost their lives. there's a lot of people who think that the way in which lockdowns has had long term

implications on all kinds of fronts. everybody wants an inquiry because everybody wants to be able to see the evidence , to be able to see the evidence, to be able to see the evidence, to be able to see the evidence, to be able to debate it properly , calmly. and it's why we need to get . on with it. on in to get. on with it. on in separate leaked messages. boris johnson was described as a nationally figure by the uk's top civil servant , feared the top civil servant, feared the then prime minister would ignored by the public if he introduced lockdown rules. simon case was appointed cabinet secretary by mr. johnson in september 2020. a spokesperson for boris johnson has declined to comment. next week's remaining ambulance strikes in england have been called off. the unite union, which represents 3000 workers, has entered pay talks with the government. unite joins unison and gmb , which say there's been and gmb, which say there's been and gmb, which say there's been a huge shift in the government's position . the strikes were to position. the strikes were to take place tomorrow and wednesday . two men arrested wednesday. two men arrested following the shooting of a police officer in northern

ireland have been released. detective chief inspector john caldwell was shot several times in omagh last month. he remains in omagh last month. he remains in a critical but condition in hospital. six other men who were arrested and as part of the investigation have been released previously , the duke of duchess previously, the duke of duchess and the duke and duchess of sussex have received an official invitation to king charles coronation that despite ongoing tension with other members of the royal family over disclosures and. harry's memoir. a spokesperson for harry and meghan told gb news a decision on their attending, meghan told gb news a decision on their attending , though, will on their attending, though, will not be disclosed the present time. the coronation will take place on the 6th of may and liverpool , manchester united liverpool, manchester united hearts and a host of records with a stirring seven nil win against their arch rivals at anfield. mo salah scored to become liverpool's record premier league goal scorer cody gakpo and darwin nunez two each as liverpool scored six in the

second half. it is their ever win against manchester united and united's heaviest defeat against any team since 31. tv online and dab radio this gb news is now back to mark dolan tonight . tonight. my tonight. my thanks to armstrong. he's with me. all he's back at nine. welcome to mark dolan tonight. put your up and relax because we've got a great 2 hours ahead. hopefully you've got the kids in bed now. let's pretend it's not a school night and let's have some fun and a good old debate along the way. in my opinion. whatsapp messages from matt hancock show the pandemic response was headlines, not health and they laughed as they locked us down. more fool us for submitting to tyranny. never again . that's my big opinion.

again. that's my big opinion. it's just coming in. the big question be asking of keir starmer and the labour party failed to provide effect gave opposition during the pandemic. tory legend ann widdecombe will be here debating that with . be here debating that with. former labour minister sean . my former labour minister sean. my mark means guest is robin tilbrook, the leader of the engush tilbrook, the leader of the english democrats with relentless talk of scottish independence and with plied cookery in wales enjoying growing support. we'll why engush growing support. we'll why english independence is not a greater talking point if you're watching or listening in england , would you like an english parliament? it might take it. ten boris johnson won power with three magic words get brexit rishi sunak can the same with three new ones. stop the boats . three new ones. stop the boats. we've got tomorrow's papers and exactly 30 sharp with a full panel reaction. and in the news agenda with broadcaster and former tory minister edwina currie , be asking if rishi currie, be asking if rishi sunak's health check plans will be enough to halt the mass

exodus from our workforce. currently six and a half million people of working age are active in the economy . we'll discuss in the economy. we'll discuss that reacting to those stories and many more. my all star panel , author and journalist hilary freeman political editor , the freeman political editor, the spectator magazine, james hill, and social commentary to and political broadcaster may most importantly, i want to from you throughout the show, mark gibb news .uk. the best part of the show when you get in touch. so for the next 2 hours, big debates, big guests , and always debates, big guests, and always big opinions. let's have a busy old sunday night. big opinions. let's have a busy old sunday night . and let's old sunday night. and let's start with this . following the start with this. following the bold journalism of the daily telegraph newspaper and the extraordinary courage of journalist isabel. extraordinary courage of journalist isabel . we have the journalist isabel. we have the truth . the government's pandemic truth. the government's pandemic response , which is that it was response, which is that it was motivated by headlines, not health, by politics, not. the

latest shocking from the leaked whatsapp messages from the then health secretary hancock are telling they show that this dupuchous telling they show that this duplicitous who can't even be trusted by his own wife sought to capitalise on a new strain of covid 19, when covid's difficult second album after the alpha variants all in order to scare the bejesus out of us. so would comply with covid measures , comply with covid measures, which at the time were controversial , and which at the time were controversial, and which has since aged more badly than joe biden . many long feared that biden. many long feared that lockdowns, masks and illiberal vaccine mandates were a disastrous mistake . i said as disastrous mistake. i said as much whilst broadcasting on the national radio and tv airwaves throughout the pandemic , i've throughout the pandemic, i've been on air non—stop for the last three years, and i was one of the people holding , the of the people holding, the government, to account looking at data for evidence to justify my devastating and ill measures. ieven my devastating and ill measures. i even caused an international

news story when i chopped up a face early in the pandemic on my old radio show . and that was old radio show. and that was a viral video that more or less broke the internet. another moment of scepticism , ism and moment of scepticism, ism and critical judgement that has aged pretty well notwithstanding four decades of research into masks before the pandemic that suggested they would never stop a virus like covid notwithstanding the real world data that shows that countries that masked didn't show a discerning advantage over those that didn't . notwithstanding the that didn't. notwithstanding the latest cochrane review, the most authoritative study to date, which suggests that masks did nothing other, of course, than impact people's lives and their mental and physical well—being. and of course , our oceans into and of course, our oceans into the bargain . notwithstanding the bargain. notwithstanding that all of the medical experts told us not to wear a mask in the pandemic because it wouldn't help . if none of that is enough help. if none of that is enough to snap you out of your brainwashed attachment to the idea that any of this nonsense was worth the damage caused,

just at these whatsapp just look at these whatsapp messages and boris johnson's decision to mask children all day long in the classroom. not because of data, not because of evidence based science, but because he didn't want a fight with scotland's pint sized dictator nicola sturgeon . they dictator nicola sturgeon. they covered our faces to cover their with a vanishingly low infection fatality rate. covid 19 was the first virus that its own marketing departments , with the marketing departments, with the government deploying terrifying behavioural scientist suits like declared communist susan michie to make think we were in the grip of the people. nick clegg in the end we didn't have to be scared of this virus, which was really just a threat to a tiny proportion of the population. those with serious co—morbidities , some in deep co—morbidities, some in deep old. so what have we learned from this whole sorry affair ? from this whole sorry affair? well, that we were idiots for going along with these policies

in the first place. three weeks to flatten the curve was , the to flatten the curve was, the foot in the door that they needed. that's where we went wrong . and now we're paying the wrong. and now we're paying the price . we've got a wrecked price. we've got a wrecked economy. eyewatering national debt, damaged kids , and a debt, damaged kids, and a sadden debt, damaged kids, and a sadder, poorer, sicker and more divided society . oh, and an sadder, poorer, sicker and more divided society. oh, and an nhs waiting list of 7 million people which surely poses a greater threat to human life than the virus ever could. but of course , it's for your health. follow science, folks in course of the pandemic, our leaders and we forgot our western values . free forgot our western values. free speech was crushed for anyone who questioned the madness of it all, for whom none of this made sense. human liberty was trashed with . people being told when with. people being told when they can and can't see their own families or even say goodbye to loved ones who had passed away . loved ones who had passed away. going out to work and providing for your family. ceased to . be for your family. ceased to. be a human right. here's where we went wrong as we were whipped

into a frenzy of fear by hancock and a cabal of politicians , us and a cabal of politicians, us government scientists and high profile tv and radio personalities. where did we go wrong ? well, we listen to them wrong? well, we listen to them and we took the bait. we allowed ourselves to be manipulated gaslit bullied and. who could blame ? us. after all, we blame? us. after all, we believed what we were . and we believed what we were. and we just wanted it be over. and that was the problem . we complied to was the problem. we complied to make it end. but our compliance meant it never would . just as meant it never would. just as those idiotic and unscientific vaccine mandates achieved nothing other than creating a new generation of never vax as pubuc new generation of never vax as public trust in politicians and scientists and in establishment media will never recover. and why should it? you know you're in trouble when , like me, were in trouble when, like me, were right all along. next time we've all got to step up . we must all got to step up. we must choose evidence based science. we must actual data. we must

choose a diversity of views. we must choose personal and bodily autonomy . and next time, autonomy. and next time, anything like this happens, don't just roll over and swallow the bs . choose life . choose the bs. choose life. choose freedom. choose liberty. and say no to tyranny. drunk on power and taxpayer funded red wine. our leaders controlled us. bankrupted destroyed our mental and physical. and they found the whole thing hilarious . they whole thing hilarious. they laughed . they locked us down. laughed. they locked us down. there are no words. actually i can think of two. never again . can think of two. never again. now, what's your view ? the now, what's your view? the government would argue that without the covid measures lockdowns, face coverings , lockdowns, face coverings, vaccine mandates, other intervention ends, many lives would have been lost. and they would have been lost. and they would argue that these measures were carried out by other countries around the world and

that ensuring the nhs did not become overwhelmed was priority something they would argue these measures achieved . that's not my measures achieved. that's not my view. but what's yours? mark at gb news uk. reacting to my big opinion, my wonderful expert guests tonight we've got journalist and author hilary freeman . james journalist and author hilary freeman .james hill, a brand new freeman. james hill, a brand new star on mark dolan tonight. the political correspondent at the spectator and commentator and political broadcast author lin mei. lynn, let me, start with you. your reaction to these whatsapp messages. i believe that part of the problem was our compliance. now i agree with you however and i know people are going to look at their tv screen and they're going to be shouting it because i initially felt quite sorry for the government, because it seemed as though they couldn't win when it came to locking us down. everyone was you know angry at the thought of having to stay in their house, not being able to go out go to work. but then it was the opposite. people were at that also. either way, couldn't also. so either way, couldn't win. we've seen these

win. but now we've seen these whatsapp messages. i'm absolutely disgusted. and as much as i cannot stand. matt hancock , the dweeb that he is. hancock, the dweeb that he is. i think we need to look at the bigger picture because even though he was the health secretary he's not a scientist. he's not doctor . where did he's not a doctor. where did this information come ? and if this information come? and if you look at the word deploy , you look at the word deploy, that's relatable to that's usually relatable to something military , you know, a something military, you know, a weapon . we want to know the weapon. we want to know the truth. and if hancock really wants to do something of any worth in his measly life , he'll worth in his measly life, he'll come out and tell us the truth about what they really were doing with covid. james hill, welcome . to the hugo rifkind, welcome. to the hugo rifkind, who writes for the times was on twitter today and he well, actually, you know, might not have appreciated the tone of matt hancock's whatsapp messages, but his argument was, look , of course he wanted to look, of course he wanted to ramp up the fear because the nhs was threatened with being overwhelmed and this deadly

virus was killing . so his virus was killing. so his argument that ultimately the ends justify the means. did they ? well, this is something the inquiry is going to have to consider. but what i would say that one aspect of this which has been particularly concerning was the use of nudge theory throughout, the pandemic and the way was was used in way in which was was used in order ensure compliance. what order to ensure compliance. what is for the me is nudge theory for the like me that don't no, of course. that don't know? no, of course. no sort of soft can try no the how sort of soft can try and persuade public opinion to try and get go along with a certain agenda of certain way. so at different so you look at different policies is often used in public health to encourage things that healthy this case healthy eating. but in this case they using it to extent they were using it to an extent which you hadn't really seen before. things like social media, things like government posters. you may remember the posters. you may remember the posters me posters about look him, look me in the eye, look her in the eye. and that led to a real of and that led to a real sense of fear and that use of i fear and that use of fear, i think, is probably properly understood yet. and so what i hope with the release of hope that with the release of these messages going to do is try to look at that as an issue rather than debating around necessarily look necessarily about did we look down a week too soon, a week too

late, looking at of the late, looking at some of the tools used in this and tools that we used in this and whether they proportionate, appropriate and whether they should indeed, should be used again. indeed, we're to these we're going to return to these whatsapp the lockdown whatsapp messages, the lockdown files papers files with the papers 1030 because are more explosive because there are more explosive revelations coming. let me tell you. but hilary, i want to show this you, because in my big this to you, because in my big opinion, i've said that they laughed at us while they locked us look at this us down. take a look at this exchange matt hancock us down. take a look at this exchhisie matt hancock us down. take a look at this exchhis media matt hancock us down. take a look at this exchhis media adviser:t hancock us down. take a look at this exchhis media adviser , hancock us down. take a look at this exchhis media adviser , damonk and his media adviser, damon poole. now, damon poole has said no promises , but i'm trying to no promises, but i'm trying to land a bill endorsement of platform. matt hancock replied , platform. matt hancock replied, tell him that considering how many people i'm getting his chips injected into me, he owes me one. and damon poole replies, ha ha . well, be still my aching ha ha. well, be still my aching sides. hilary freeman they laughed as they us down here belittling people with understandable and concerns about the vaccine . yeah. i mean, about the vaccine. yeah. i mean, the whole , whole conversation the whole, whole conversation comes across like a group of

pubuc comes across like a group of public playing politics and suddenly getting power over people's lives and just showing low what i feel about the british public , which is, you british public, which is, you know, they look down on us basically. and i think i mean , i basically. and i think i mean, i don't think anybody to be fair, anybody whatsapp messages with would look very good if they were published. but know, to were published. but you know, to know this is what they know that this is what they thought yeah. it's, it's thought of us. yeah. it's, it's pretty really. hilary pretty shocking, really. hilary james hale , lyn may, mark dolan james hale, lyn may, mark dolan tonight boasts the freshest and best commentator voices on the national television and radio airwaves. they'll be back a little later in the hour. now the news agenda with edwina currie will rishi sunak health plans pull halt the mass exodus of many people from the workplace ? did you know there workplace? did you know there were 6.6 million people of working age who don't work? how do we fix it ? we'll discuss that do we fix it? we'll discuss that with no nonsense edwina currie later. my mark meets guest is robin tilbrook . he's the robin tilbrook. he's the chairman of the english democrats . he wants english

democrats. he wants english devolution and an english parliament. is that a good idea? what about english independence? would you vote for it? if you're watching in england ? but next up watching in england? but next up in the big question, i'm going to return to covid. did fail to provide effective opposition dunng provide effective opposition during pandemic. we'll debate that with tory icon ann widdecombe and top labour insider sean woodward. go anywhere .

well big reaction to my big mark at gb news, uk. we've had so many emails in relation to this. where shall we? richard marx . where shall we? richard marx. scaring people is never acceptable as any government tactic . matt hancock trying to tactic. matt hancock trying to terrify people with a new delta plus rewards program variant was appalling. the public not lay

down and take any of that bs ever again . how about this ? lynn ever again. how about this? lynn says, mark, just like labour, you're all criticism with no suggestion about what you would do instead. i'm not saying the government was right, but what would you have done in the circumstances? well lynn, what i would have done inform the would have done is inform the pubuc would have done is inform the public of the risk offered them various mitigations that they could such as stay at could take, such as stay at home, don't go to work, have zoom meetings, wear a mask if you somehow believe they work. but it's up to you. that was the policy of the swedish government and since 2020 they've had lower excess deaths than many of their european neighbours. i believe they've won the argument but look it's all opinion and lynn you're right to hold me to account, so do keep that, that frame of mind coming because do like to be exposed to a bit scrutiny on this show and also the show is the home not just the show is the home not just the big opinions but diverse opinions. so what do think? let me know. market gb news .uk. andreas, can i have a saying

please . it's time now for please please. it's time now for the big question , in which we the big question, in which we tackle a major news story . the tackle a major news story. the day there has been an intense focus on the government's pandemic response , which will pandemic response, which will receive a further scrutiny when a full inquiry. however, if mistakes made, do the media who often as cheerleaders for and perhaps more importantly opposition, share some of the responsibility for any of the impacts of the measures, particularly given the fact that keir starmer waved most of the government's rather draconian covid policies? i do remember many labour mps all their leader, asking for a cost benefit analysis of lockdowns or asking for evidence science around masking or stay at home orders. so that's tonight's big question did labour fail to provide opposition during the pandemic ? now, unfortunately, pandemic? now, unfortunately, we're having trouble getting a line to ann widdecombe. she's at

the moment and her connection isn't great. so and we miss you, but too i'm light to welcome former labour minister and top labour party insider shaun woodward . a warm welcome to mark woodward. a warm welcome to mark dolan tonight show. good evening. great to have you on the programme. do you think that labour should have done more by way of opposition during the pandemic . no, i way of opposition during the pandemic. no, i think way of opposition during the pandemic . no, i think the labour pandemic. no, i think the labour party did what you would want them to do and let's just first of all recall the circumstances. none of us knew what was happening in those first few months of 2020 when all of this took off and the right thing to do was, what the labour party did , which was to rally round did, which was to rally round the government the time, which is to be supportive of the measures that were being introduced. nobody knew whether were the right measures or the wrong measures. what we did know is very large numbers of people were dying the world. and i think we should just for a moment reflect on just how the

world, the united states, every european country , every night we european country, every night we would frightened to watch the television because we would learn about the round of deaths that are taking place. could we get ventilators. could we get ppe equipment . and at those ppe equipment. and at those moments of national crisis and they were international crises they were international crises the right thing for the opposition to do is not to be playing games , actually be to be playing games, actually be to be trying to support the government. and that's what initially happened. now what then happened , of course, was then happened, of course, was that by of 2020? keir becomes leader of the labour party and starts to ask . is when is leader of the labour party and starts to ask. is when is this lockdown going to end ? do we lockdown going to end? do we have the right ppe equipment to actually. i think what you need to recall here is that quite we were asking questions about the shortage of ppe equipment and very real concerns about the nurses and, the lessons that we seem to be learning rather quickly about there not being

enough equipment to protect all health care staff through of this. i do remember starmer shorten sorry to interrupt you that we're going to keir starmer asking when lockdowns would end. he was kept in lockdown. he the government for not locking down sooner a policy that's been dismissed by many eminent scientists around the world including dr. jay bhattacharya from the university of stamford, the medical school there. he wanted a circuit breaker lockdown and he called freedom day , july of 2021, reckless . day, july of 2021, reckless. yeah look, we can get lost here if we're not careful in recognising the difference between being in government and being the opposition . the job of being the opposition. the job of the opposition is to questions. it wasn't as if was labour didn't ask questions showing up . when? when did keir starmer ask for a cost benefit analysis of lockdowns? did he ask about the economic damage ? when did he the economic damage? when did he

say that children would be damaged from school closures? why did he not fight for schools to stay open ? sean i can't find to stay open? sean i can't find anyone that will defend school closures now , but i really think closures now, but i really think mark, you're losing the context of actually what going on at the time. nobody knew the answer . we time. nobody knew the answer. we were all trying to find answers. and i think again , can shake and i think again, can shake your head and you deny me the opportunity to try and say what i would like to say here, when you have a crisis of the proportions of covid, the world, the first thing you actually want to do is not play games with people's lives. what we're learning from these whatsapp messages that are coming out today is that the games that were being played , the were being played, the government are terrible games. they games that were taking place. there is no way that keir starmer or anybody in the opposition knew what was going on inside downing street. what

we now know is that we had a prime minister in the form of bofis prime minister in the form of boris johnson, who was busy having parties and booze ups when he was telling the rest of us that we had to be locked down. these are moments when you take minister good take a prime minister in good faith start with. well, faith to start with. well, i don't know whether boris johnson, the opposition , when johnson, the opposition, when you have superior information is behave very differently. but what we were trying to do was to do our best at supporting the country in. a major crisis , but country in. a major crisis, but at the same time trying to ask questions. you're there weren't enough questions. questions. you're there weren't enough questions . you would have enough questions. you would have liked them a few weeks earlier. we can all be wise after the event. i would have like sean, i would have like gross manipulate . one of the facts that was taking place by the secretary of state at the health department, the cabinet secretary, who cannot be exonerated in any way , what we're learning, but crucially , mark, all of this at crucially, mark, all of this at

the end , the day this childish, the end, the day this childish, pure ground game that was being played by matt hancock, who was jealous of how rishi sunak look one day trying to withhold information manipulate it another . information manipulate it another. this was a culture created by a prime minister who all of this to happen . now sean all of this to happen. now sean would put on that one that we can agree on that we can agree we a landing zone for this conversation think the culture at number 10 was a problem. i can't be sure that there were parties happening at which boris johnson was present because that whole thing was investigated by the current chief of staff of the current chief of staff of the labour party. so i can't imagine she was that neutral. but here's the thing. here are the facts . no, hang but here's the thing. here are the facts. no, hang on. this is really interesting that you said what just said. she is not the current chief of staff of the while she's been appointed. she's she's the chief of staff elect to speculate about facts . elect to speculate about facts. so you need to at one moment here, just hold the mirror up to yourself. you've just said

something your viewers , which something to your viewers, which is . sue gray is not the is not true. sue gray is not the current chief of staff she's about to be. she's she's the chief of staff elected to job. and when she's released from the job that she's been doing , job that she's been doing, she'll be able to take that responsibility up. all well, i'm happy. i'm responsibility up. all well, i'm happy- i'm happy responsibility up. all well, i'm happy. i'm happy to stand . i happy. i'm happy to stand. i think i think my viewers and listeners can make their own mind up about that one just this evening and asking these questions. but how do you assist of viewers by feeding them of your viewers by feeding them a deliberate lie. she well, wait a deliberate lie. she well, wait a minute. are you really sean woodward? are you going to die on this? hell sue gray has been appointed chief of staff to , the appointed chief of staff to, the labour party. i'm calling out the labour party. chief of staff. i mean , she's been staff. i mean, she's been appointed . her post will begin appointed. her post will begin next month after gardening leave effectively , she's the chief of effectively, she's the chief of staff and i'm sure she's work now . she will become the chief now. she will become the chief of staff what's the difference . of staff what's the difference.

well the difference is she's not been doing the job well. she's effective money. the idea that an investigation into this prime minister was being done by a current chief of staff of the labour party. no i didn't know, sean.i labour party. no i didn't know, sean. i didn't say she was chief of staff during the partygate investigation, which is a long gone.i investigation, which is a long gone. i just pointed out that she's now effectively or she's soon to be the chief of staff. i think we have to get trapped in the long grass of that one. why did keir do is look sure one of the why should it. but mark please . one of the things that's please. one of the things that's going to matter here is that we actually do try and get to the facts and all i'm trying to say to you is we can all sling things , but it's incredibly things, but it's incredibly important right now because at the end of the day, we're talking about a number of families who lost loved ones who lost mothers, fathers, brothers, sons. lost mothers, fathers, brothers, sons . in lost mothers, fathers, brothers, sons. in course of something that was handled by a group of people who in so far as they

knew what they were doing well, manipulating it wildly i don't think there can be any possibility that you could be saying that. keir starmer and the labour party in opposition will wildly manipulate , saying will wildly manipulate, saying things they knew to be other than the case. now learning from it what messages the it what messages should the government was deliberately manipulating the truth. sure, we were making progress before we got to sue gray and partygate we found a landing , which is the found a landing, which is the culture at number. i've been for two and a half years, three years now berating boris johnson for these lockdowns unscientific there is a peer reviewed study suggesting that cases were falling before each of the three national lockdowns . i want to national lockdowns. i want to know why keir starmer didn't speak up against policies which have brought our national debt . have brought our national debt. £2.1 trillion. why? he didn't speak against policies which have created an nhs waiting list of 7 million people. why he didn't speak against the policy of masking children in school without any evidence that would move the dial. and we had no science evidence that that did

work . and indeed, school work. and indeed, school closures all together, not a squeak out of keir starmer in relation to damaging measures, you we didn't know anything you say we didn't know anything about virus. we knew much about the virus. we knew much from day one. the infection fatality rate of 19 was vanishingly low mainly impacted. the over eighties with co—morbidities and we treated it like the bubonic plague most of all. by keir starmer i'm sorry that name one of those things that's not true but can you point out the inaccuracy that any of what i've said i can either try and answer your question or i can just listen to you asking more. but can you can? you find the inaccuracies in i've said please ? this in what i've said please? this was not confined an illness. was not confined to an illness. over people who died . the over 80 people who died. the average of death in the uk. average age of death in the uk. i know people who died who were younger than that should have lost friends. mark who were in their thirties and forties. i will not know. that's very sad. but that not symptomatic of the disease . people were somehow to

disease. people were somehow to die anyway . they weren't . and die anyway. they weren't. and i'm afraid i'm afraid it's misleading. surely misleading to cite cases of people in their thirties who tragically, from covid 19, it was a thirties who tragically, from covid19, it was a disease that predominantly impacted people with a high bmi, metabolic syndrome, co—morbidities and those in their eighties that is the fact it was an awful disease . we all hated that. and keir starmer did not speak up any of the measures that have destroyed this country . the measures that have destroyed this country. so the measures that have destroyed this country . so we've we've we this country. so we've we've we screwed the country up. i'm keir starmer wasted all three. sean no mark you are setting yourself up here for something which is just not true on many people who are not in their eighties , not are not in their eighties, not destined to die and when you talk about their bmi , i honestly talk about their bmi, i honestly think if you went to the royal college of nurses and you said to this group of people that the ones who died amongst them were destined to die because they

either had a high bmi . right. or either had a high bmi. right. or they were very old. sean, don't put words in my mouth . don't put put words in my mouth. don't put words in my mouth . it seems that words in my mouth. it seems that as with the labor party, you're ignonng as with the labor party, you're ignoring the science. it predominantly impacted older people with co—morbidities . but people with co—morbidities. but what we did is we what we did is we paid healthy people to stay at home and we destroyed the economy. we borrowed half a trillion pounds. we closed once viable businesses, we destroyed mental and physical health of young people . all of that signed young people. all of that signed by you will make keir starmer starmer excuse me more every thing changed once we had vaccine before we had vaccines . vaccine before we had vaccines. where'd you get that? you have some superior knowledge . the some superior knowledge. the virus was predominantly mild from day one. that is a direct quote from chris whitty . i don't quote from chris whitty. i don't care who you've got quotes from that you want to cite . what that you want to cite. what i can say to you is that before were throwing your hands in the air in some supercilious way ,

air in some supercilious way, somehow demonstrating to people that you're superior to all of us is , absurd. the entire world us is, absurd. the entire world struggled through 2020 to find a way of tackling this sweden that did them. sweden did not struggle . sweden had no struggle. sweden had no lockdowns . they kept their lockdowns. they kept their businesses open. they kept open. they've got densely populated cities. they have a million people of foreign extraction. so it's a diverse population and they've got the lowest excess death rates in europe since 2020. they didn't have any of measures that we had. why i'm tell me what happened before they use the vaccines and when sweden reopened i seem to remember they suddenly started experiencing quite high numbers of deaths or . you ignore it okay of deaths or. you ignore it okay okay. of deaths or. you ignore it okay okay . well, listen, sean, we've okay. well, listen, sean, we've had a great old ding dong. i'd like to give you the last word. please. please complete this brilliant conversation with your final thoughts . my thought is final thoughts. my thought is very simple. the job of the opposition is to ask questions. the government were in charge .

the government were in charge. what we're learning today from these whatsapp is that this is a group of kids who were playing a schoolboy game with a prime minister who was not being responsible . and it's utterly responsible. and it's utterly sickening to learn what seemed to be going on in the department of health in downing street. we gave them the benefit of the doubt and it seems right now that we have very, very questions to ask of these people . and on that, i completely agree. sean, you're a for star being on the show. i loved our debate. it was fascinating i do come back, say in a fascinating debate and look , i'd love to debate and look, i'd love to know what you think. do you agree with shaun? am i underplaying the threat of the virus? little knew at the virus? how little we knew at the start? be brutal me. start? please be brutal with me. whether agree or disagree, whether you agree or disagree, let think shaun a let know. i think shaun is a great for coming on and i great sport for coming on and i did enjoy fulsome debate did enjoy our fulsome debate market. gbnews.uk let know market. gbnews.uk let me know your more come your thoughts more to come remember the golden rule of this show. we don't do boring. not on my i think just my watch. i think you've just seen edwina curry seen that. i think edwina curry next we'll about. the next and we'll talk about. the nation's go

nation's health don't go anywhere .

big reaction to my debate with shaun woodward , former labour shaun woodward, former labour government minister , in regard government minister, in regard to whether labour provided opposition during the pandemic. i agree with you, mark. labour did not anything, says isabel. steve well done. shaun woodward , for standing up to your nonsense , mark, elizabeth said. nonsense, mark, elizabeth said. did mark like gb news. but this obsession with covid locked on lockdown or how it was handled? when will it end? you quote a few doctors who were not for lockdown why are you not quoting the millions doctors who the millions of doctors who promoted elizabeth you for promoted it? elizabeth you for offering side. that's offering the other side. that's what show is all about. what this show is all about. that's about. hi, that's what i'm all about. hi, mark. labour did not job. mark. labour did not do its job. i will it's a shame you had i will say it's a shame you had such old guy on who's so such an old guy on who's so scared of death . people die all scared of death. people die all the time . it's a shame the lefty the time. it's a shame the lefty loons can't handle that fact of life, says arnold . and last but

life, says arnold. and last but not least , neil. mark, it's not least, neil. mark, it's obvious were winning obvious you were winning conversation as your guest got rather great save. rather rattled. great save. well, thank you very for well, thank you very much for that, neil. i think sean, that, neil. look, i think sean, a sport for on. a great sport for being on. i look to his next look forward to his next appearance on the show. workers will be given annual health checks of government checks as part of government plans people going long plans stop people going on long term reduce the term sick leave and reduce the number of working age brits who are active in the economy. are not active in the economy. ministers believe assessments which tests , blood which could include tests, blood pressure body mass index pressure and body mass index will help reduce the number of people labour market. the people the labour market. the initiative is part of a wider workforce review to deal with the more than 6.6 million people who are economically . a growing who are economically. a growing number whom are over 50. well one of the most active people i know is former government minister and radio and tv presenter edwina currie. she never stops. hi, edwina . hi. never stops. hi, edwina. hi. incident three. i thoroughly enjoyed . what you were up to enjoyed. what you were up to with shaun woodward ? i'm old with shaun woodward? i'm old enough to remember when he was a conservative member of parliament at the stratford on

avon . there you go. so we flip avon. there you go. so we flip flops like the best of them. edwina are they really 6.6 million people who cannot work in this country of working age? i just wonder whether we need more policies to get people back to work, particularly given the parlous state of the economy . parlous state of the economy. oh, i think everybody's very keen indeed to get people back to work, and particularly in the age groups that you've mentioned, they 55 to 60 for those who are not able claim their state pension , but in many their state pension, but in many cases seem to be either claiming long term sick. we need get them back to work are claiming their private pensions be a year or two before they discover that actually they haven't enough private pension that they haven't saved enough over the years to be able to survive well into the eighties the nineties as we hope everybody would. so couple of points, if i may. first of all, it's very good idea to extend having checks at work . it will pick up all sorts work. it will pick up all sorts

of conditions. work. it will pick up all sorts of conditions . they get serious. of conditions. they get serious. that's a good idea. and i think this is aimed particularly smaller businesses who probably can't afford do it. but can't afford to do it. but whether should be done with whether it should be done with government not and government help or not and that's a moot point. but, you know, there are other aspects to all of this. i mean, for example, if we closed all the golf clubs, a lot of those people wouldn't be able to go and spend their time on the golf course. we said , oh, you can course. if we said, oh, you can only have one cruise a year instead of the i think a friend of mine's actually been on nine last year something like that that might also a beneficial effect . well you would have to effect. well you would have to hope so. i quite like the spirit of this policy. it's about prevention of illness rather than the treatment thereof. that would be good news for the nhs. but what about the culture of this country ? are we getting this country? are we getting lazy again? all we becoming the lazy again? all we becoming the lazy of europe? edwina well lazy man of europe? edwina well , mostly the lazy man . a of , mostly the lazy man. a of those people out of age who are not working all women who are choosing to stay at home and

look after their children or may have other responsibilities , have other responsibilities, such as looking after an elderly relative who's not well. and they , i think, ought to be they, i think, ought to be recognised and respected. it's very old fashioned thing to do, but it's not a bad thing to. you about 200,000 men who are staying looking after children as well. and i know one of the things that government is looking at something to do with the cost of childcare nurseries so on to see whether they can eat that up. but the problem is how to stop people in very experienced positions who can afford to . and one of the things afford to. and one of the things this government has to do is unwind some of george osborne's attack on pension funds , which attack on pension funds, which started back in 2015. i think and now you've got to stay age. you haven't got there yet, mark, but hopefully you will you get to a stage where you're at what your pension fund is actually worth in real time and you are going to be paying an awful lot

of on it. that's not a good idea. we should encourage everybody to save . we should everybody to save. we should encourage everybody stay at encourage everybody to stay at work and push up their pension funds, that shouldn't funds, which that and shouldn't be as we are, for be forcing them as we are, for example, with consultants and the nhs to retire far too . and the nhs to retire far too. and then they don't go back to work . and what about benefits ? does . and what about benefits? does it still pay to work ? then it still pay to work? then looking at two seeking the universal credit system and that probably is a very good idea . i probably is a very good idea. i heard a lot about sweden from you and one of the things that sweden's managed to do is get a lot of older people back into work and they've done it by having a jobs agency which is just aimed at older people . it's just aimed at older people. it's actually called veteran pooling and encourage older people to come back into usually part time choosing own hours. and you get 60 or 75. nobody's going to tell you what to do. that's a very, very good idea. we should have something like that. but one other thing that sweden did was

to make it much harder to claim universal credit and to claim they disability benefits when perhaps you were able to work, not that you were disabled , but not that you were disabled, but you were able to work. you could work part time . that's a bit work part time. that's a bit ruthless for this government to be doing before an election. but any good government worth its salt would be doing afterwards. fascinating stuff. edwina will catch up soon. the broadcaster and former government minister, bestselling author edwina currie. thanks, edwina. we'll catch up soon. still to come in my take it ten boris johnson won power with . three magic words power with. three magic words get brexit done well rishi sunak can do the same with three new ones. stop the boats. but next, it's my big three news agenda topics with my panel, including all certain religions being given a free pass when it comes to extreme views. don't go anywhere .

with me reacting to the big stories of the. journalist and author hilary freeman . james author hilary freeman. james hale, brand new star on mark dolan tonight, the political correspondent at the spectator and social . lin mei now islamic and social. lin mei now islamic schools trust that has been praised for promoting british values is allegedly facing watchdog questions after describing gay people as evil. the charity commission has launched a comply ance case against abu bakr to trust after staff use social media platforms to promote anti—gay views . now to promote anti—gay views. now it begs the question, are certain religions given a free pass on extreme views ? hilary pass on extreme views? hilary freeman . well, i mean, i've got freeman. well, i mean, i've got an interesting take on this because i went to a religious school as a child and i was brought up very much that when in rome you do as the romans do. so if you live in this country that you follow the cultural rules of this country , and that

rules of this country, and that is what you do, you don't go your own religion, but don't you your own religion, but don't you you follow that the level of the country basically my daughter is now a that is predominantly muslim and we live in east london and again, you know the school tries very, very hard to make sure that the things are seen is not acceptable. you know , there was a little boy in my daughter's class who said that it was wrong for gay people to get married. and the teacher said, no , no, it's not wrong. said, no, no, it's not wrong. and was told that. so whatever messages are being given at home and i in the school that they should be giving right messages. yes. what do you think this, james? it's a delicate topic, isn't . yes, quite. and that's isn't. yes, quite. and that's why you see the political around it. i mean, with the whitefield of koran that was scuffed . i of the koran that was scuffed. i was surprised to see one of was very surprised to see one of the local labour councillors there put quite an inflammatory statement the friday week statement on the friday week talking about the need the talking about the need for the police to involved, to talk talking about the need for the poli(this involved, to talk talking about the need for the poli(this will involved, to talk talking about the need for the poli(this will be olved, to talk

talking about the need for the poli(this will be seen, to talk talking about the need for the poli(this will be seen as» talk talking about the need for the poli(this will be seen as aalk talking about the need for the poli(this will be seen as a kind how this will be seen as a kind of sacrilegious act. and went of sacrilegious act. and i went to party and, asked to a labour party and, asked them comment on this story, them to comment on this story, said about four or five emails heard they condemned said about four or five emails hear(they they condemned said about four or five emails hear(they haven'tzy condemned said about four or five emails hear(they haven't agreed amned said about four or five emails hear(they haven't agreed with d him. they haven't agreed with him. they haven't agreed with him. whip or him. they suspended the whip or anything that. think anything like that. and i think it that is a sort of it shows that there is a sort of a very difficult concern around this terms of what, you know, political leaders are going to address this situation. and address in this situation. and i certainly think there's a definitely and in definitely a disagree. and in terms to get terms of how i'm going to get schools, instance, there's schools, for instance, there's a lot people feel able, lot of people feel very able, for talk about how for instance, to talk about how religious is taught in religious education is taught in catholic and anglican schools compared how schools in compared to how the schools in west seems, west west yorkshire, it seems, how treated. i how they're being treated. so i think there is a real think that there is a real kind of sensitivity around and it of sensitivity around it and it is very, very concerning and no one really wants step up and one really wants to step up and talk about it. it's really tricky, isn't it, the tricky, isn't it, lynn? the greater priority british values and obviously it's a and the fact obviously it's a western country western democrats country free speech christian country speech and a christian country and respecting other and then respecting other faiths. you strike that? faiths. how do you strike that? see, of understand all see, i kind of understand all paths and i love that can go to certain big cities in this huge diversity. if you look at the influence of diversity even down

to cuisine it's amazing. however when at law , it's very when we look at law, it's very conflicting. it's very confused saying for the simple fact that religion is protected, protected under the equality act, religion is protected, protected under the equality act , the under the equality act, the human rights act. under the equality act, the human rights act . and if you are human rights act. and if you are going to allow people to practise their faith and in the koran, it's says that being homosexual is not in line with their faith. they should be allowed to say that because that is our law. however, if we're also going to have all inclusive of, you know, we need ensure of, you know, we need to ensure that are being kind and that we are being kind and protective and inclusive to people that want to have lifestyles or are lifestyles or who are homosexual, then you see, the law is conflicting . now, when law is conflicting. now, when you talk about some religions , you talk about some religions, do a pass and other do they get a pass and other religions don't? then need to religions don't? then we need to really have a the religious really have a at the religious holy just because now britain takes on a secular approach . if takes on a secular approach. if we look at the bible, the bible is not much different to the koran when it comes to homosexual morality. so are we now saying these books need to be revised , but it seems that

be revised, but it seems that you're allowed to be critical or satirical the bible. and satirical of the bible. and surely in the uk any religious texts should be open and open for comment? no i think i'll go as far as to say i think that's christian's fault . christians christian's fault. christians have allowed to degree and not all have allowed people to mock the bible. they've allowed people, whether in comedy, film , to mock jesus christ, mary. so if you are to allow the culture to mock your christiane honesty, then you can't now expect that when people like kate forbes out and is ardent and strong in her faith, you can't then expect to have the same sort of support of christianity. as with islam. yes, i mean, that's the issue . yes, i mean, that's the issue. it, james, whether christians feel that it's a different set of rules for them in terms of whatever their views may be. you know, i think about the you write about the point about consistency. and i think that you at being taught you look at what's being taught in now is a huge in schools right now is a huge variance. i mean, know, the variance. i mean, you know, the story this reporting about story that this reporting about the school was the birmingham school today was picked sunday picked up by the sunday telegraph. saturday

telegraph. the saturday telegraph. the saturday telegraph talking telegraph elsewhere was talking about sex about attempts about the sex education that's taught in school huge amount school with a huge amount of very, very approaches on very, very liberal approaches on that some schools that issue. so some schools having liberal approach, having a very liberal approach, sex others obviously sex education, others obviously very different koran very different where the koran is taught be treated is being taught to be treated a certain so and we are now certain way. so and we are now at the home secretary at a position the home secretary feels write an feels the need to write an article the times saying that article in the times saying that we have blasphemy laws in great britain because of how the division judges decision. and britain because of how the diviyou'vedges decision. and britain because of how the diviyou've got; decision. and britain because of how the diviyou've got aiecision. and britain because of how the diviyou've got aiecisichrkshire yet you've got a west yorkshire copper sat there on a viral copper who sat there on a viral video effectively confessing that blasphemy has been committed that we committed even that we don't have blasphemy the cops have blasphemy laws. the cops are as they go are making it up as they go along busy hour to along. a really busy hour to come. been a busy owl, but come. it's been a busy owl, but we've saved our to best last. it might take ten. borisjohnson might take it ten. boris johnson one. with three magic one. power with three magic words. done rishi sunak words. brexit done rishi sunak can do the same with three new ones. stop the boats. we'll discuss that. can rishi stop the boats. that's the big topic of the next hour . my guest is robin the next hour. my guest is robin tilbrook, chairman of the engush tilbrook, chairman of the english democrats. with the relentless of scottish relentless talk of scottish independence what english independence, what about english independence? you like an independence? would you like an engush independence? would you like an english we'll to english parliament? we'll get to all tomorrow's papers

all that. plus tomorrow's papers and my brilliant panel. lots to get through. anywhere .

it's 10:00 it's10:00 and this is mark dolan tonight it might take a ten. and just a moment, boris won power with three magic words. get brexit done. rishi sunak can do the same with three new ones. stop the boats. my heart means. guest is robin tilbrook, chairman of the engush tilbrook, chairman of the english democrats with relentless talk of scottish independence and with comrie in wales growing support, we'll ask why english is not a greater point to at the very least, devolution . would you like an devolution. would you like an engush devolution. would you like an english parliament plus tomorrow's papers at exactly 1030 with full panel reaction ? 1030 with full panel reaction? but my take at ten is coming and

i'm not pulling my first the headunes i'm not pulling my first the headlines with our own armstrong . hi there. i'm aaron in the gb newsroom. frighten the pants off everyone. that was matt hancock's plan to ensure public compliance with constantly changing covid rules during the pandemic leaked whatsapp messages in sunday telegraph show how the former health secretary his aides secretary and his aides discussed how to utilise fear over a new strain of the virus and guilt to make people obey. lockdown shadow work and pensions secretary ashworth told us mr. hancock's career is over . i think the key thing is, is that he is a councillor himself in front an inquiry. it comes back to this point, isn't it, why we need this inquiry to take place quickly. a lot of people lost their lives. there's a lot of people who think that the way in which lockdowns operated has long term implications on all

kinds of fronts. everybody wants an inquiry because everybody wants be able to see the evidence, to be able to debate properly and calmly. and it's why we need to get on with it. in a separate leak message, bofis in a separate leak message, boris johnson was described as a nationally distrusted figure by the uk's top civil servant who feared the then prime minister would be ignored by the public if he introduced new lockdown . if he introduced new lockdown. simon case was appointed secretary by mr. johnson in september 20, 20. a spokesperson for, boris johnson, declined to comment . for, boris johnson, declined to comment. next for, boris johnson, declined to comment . next week's two comment. next week's two remaining ambulance strikes in england have called off. the unite union, which represents 3000 workers, has entered pay talks with the government and joins unison and gmb, which said on friday there had been a huge shift in the government's position. the strikes to take place tomorrow and wednesday . place tomorrow and wednesday. two men arrested following the shooting of a police officer in northern ireland have been

released. detective chief john caldwell was shot times in omagh last month . he remains in a last month. he remains in a critical but stable condition in hospital . six other men who were hospital. six other men who were arrested questioned as part of the investigation and have been released previously . now the uk released previously. now the uk may experi adds the coldest temperatures of the year this week, with warnings of snow across of scotland brought forward . temperatures could drop forward. temperatures could drop below minus ten on monday and northern scotland with up to ten centimetres of snow on higher ground. arctic air moving over the country and down through northern england has led to a level three alert, which means 90% chance of severely cold weather, leading to possible power outages and travel disruption on a liverpool brogue. manchester united's hearts and a host of records with a humiliating seven nil win against their arch rivals, anfield. mo salah scored to become liverpool's record premier league scorer. it is liverpool's greatest win against

united in their history and it's united's heaviest defeat against any team since 1931. tv online and dab plus radio . this is gb and dab plus radio. this is gb news. now it's back to mark dolan tonight. well i won't take sides. liverpool, manchester, united. i've got so many viewers and listeners in the north west. my thanks to our anne armstrong, who returns in an hour's time at 11, this is mark night. still to come , we're going to have my come, we're going to have my take it ten boris johnson, one power with three magic words. get brexit done well. rishi sunak do the same with three new ones. stop the boats. can he stop the boats? that's the topic that might take a turn in just a moment. my mar meets guest is robin, the leader of the english democrat s relentless talk democrat s with relentless talk of scottish independence and with pride re in wales

with pride come re in wales enjoying growing we'll enjoying growing support. we'll ask why is independence ask why is english independence not a greater talking point? if you are watching or listening in england? i've got a few viewers in england. what you think . in england. what do you think. would you like an english parliament? would you like devolution you like devolution would you like independence? could an independent its own independent england go its own way? plus, we got tomorrow's front pages at 1030 sharp with full panel tonight and journalist hilary freeman, political editor of the spectator, which is, by the way, the longest and oldest ongoing political in the world, 195 years old. well he's not 105, but james hails from the spectator is with us and social commentator and political broadcaster lin mei what a dream team. a busy to come plus your emails as lots to get through those papers at 1030. but first my take it . ten those papers at 1030. but first my take it. ten sometimes those papers at 1030. but first my take it . ten sometimes three my take it. ten sometimes three words is enough to capture a political message. labour isn't working. get brexit done and now

my view. three new words that are going to potentially shape the outcome . the next election. the outcome. the next election. stop the boats. it's very telling the cervix for a leader of the opposition . human rights of the opposition. human rights lawyer keir starmer didn't have stop the boats on his list of missions. meanwhile fresh from his brexit breakthrough , which his brexit breakthrough, which isn't perfect but which looks likely to end the political and diplomatic deadlock following our departure from the eu. rishi sunak has set his sights on the cruel business model of human, one that sees as many as a thousand people entering the country every day . rishi sunak's country every day. rishi sunak's new bill to end the channel migrant crisis promises to outlaw all forms of asylum claims from those who arrive by small boats . and it aims to small boats. and it aims to prevent migrants who arrive illegally from human rights to remain many people complain that

we don't see enough of rishi sunak. well, we've had our fill of showmen at number 10. if sunakis of showmen at number 10. if sunak is tucked away in his flat at number 10, quietly working through the many problems this country has and through attention to detail will, tenacity and plain hard work them solved. then, as far as i'm concerned, he can stay as as he likes , because in the end, the likes, because in the end, the british public will always reward a prime minister who gets things done . we don't photo things done. we don't photo opportunities. we don't need press releases. we don't need pubuchy press releases. we don't need publicity stunts. we don't need fancy , we need action no more so fancy, we need action no more so than in case of these illegal migrant crossings, which are a humanitaire, an economic and national disaster. is a global beacon of diversity and tolerance. we are all arguably the most welcoming , tolerant and the most welcoming, tolerant and open nation in history. but we will not be mugged off . there will not be mugged off. there must be due process systems, a

procedure not the unedifying and troubling sight of migrants crossing in flimsy boats , crossing in flimsy boats, checking their phones and documentation into the water and running for the hills when they land on our shores to where god only knows . it's also worrying only knows. it's also worrying when you see people being picked up when you see people being picked ”p by when you see people being picked up by a uk contact in what is possibly a global criminal infrastructure . there are plenty infrastructure. there are plenty of loophole lawyers who want to gerrymander the system in favour of these cruel gangs and their victims. but it's my that the pubuc victims. but it's my that the public have had enough and what may have been a fringe concern largely among community ties impacted. it's now an issue that has entered the political mainstream. enough of the british public believe it's , british public believe it's, wrong, impractical and even danger us to see these chaotic every day . and i believe that every day. and i believe that placing this issue the top of his hot list was political masterstroke for sunak fixing it could produce a political

miracle. top politics. matthew goodwin tweeted yesterday . he goodwin tweeted yesterday. he said, i've spent much of the last weeks sitting in focus in the red wall . the next general the red wall. the next general election is definitely a foregone conclusion . it's all foregone conclusion. it's all about those three words stop the boats. if sunak achieves , there boats. if sunak achieves, there will be no stopping him . it's my will be no stopping him. it's my view that the illegal migrant crossings are an economic , crossings are an economic, social, a national security and humanitarian disaster. we've got to fix it. people are dying in the channel. it's a tragedy. it's not how we do things. britain is welcoming. but let's do it properly. that's my view. but what do you think? now supporters labour would argue that they couldn't possibly do a worse job. the in worse job. the tories in relation to illegal migrants . relation to illegal migrants. and has said will and keir starmer has said will review the whole issue from top

to bottom and, engage with the french to get a deal to sort this. so what do you think, mark at gb news dot uk reacting to my take it ten we have journalists and author hilary freeman, a political correspondent, the political correspondent, the political correspondent, the political correspondent at the spectator james hill and social spectatorjames hill and social commentator and political broadcaster lynn. james, let me start with you. can rishi sunak the boats? it will be difficult, but he can certainly make a big dentin but he can certainly make a big dent in that 45,000 coming every year. dent in that 45,000 coming every year . we've had a lot of talk year. we've had a lot of talk over the last years or so from people at priti patel or johnson. but this a chance for rishi sunak to really try and get one of these five pledges done. it's an issue of huge concern to 29 tory voters. he knows parliamentary party will want him to it done. and want him to get it done. and i think going to the think going to see the legislation on tuesday to show that in tandem with that that working in tandem with things be things like rwanda will be hopefully that the hopefully solution that the conservatives try and conservatives need in to try and win those voters for the win back those voters for the next election. do you agree that the wall is settled ? the red wall is not settled? that's certainly view of

that's certainly the view of matthew who a matthew goodwin, who is a respected wall respected expert on the red wall and top politics professor. yes, this the spectator did some polling of each of the five pledges of rishi sunak on keir starmer and on that clear starmer and on that the clear blue water a clear dividing line between the two was the small boats because as you were boats and because as you were saying loophole saying at the start loophole lawyers lot of tory lawyers i think a lot of tory 2019 voters think of keir starmer as one of those loophole lawyers. think crime lawyers. i think the crime in immigration certainly immigration is certainly an issue can hit him issue in which they can hit him with and i that if you're with and i think that if you're going to see all the sort activist groups come out against this and not the labour party come against that's come out against this, that's going of a lot of going to the use of a lot of people in hq and number 10 people in key hq and number 10 because they want to make this a clear dividing line of the clear dividing line ahead of the next between the two next election between the two parties. hilary freeman, parties. indeed, hilary freeman, we've always accepted people into people into this country, people fleeing of dreadful fleeing or all sorts of dreadful threats in their homeland . but threats in their homeland. but this must be done through legal . what's your view on whether sunak can and indeed should stop the boats? i do think that sending people to rwanda is the

answer . i sending people to rwanda is the answer. i run the place where people are actually making asylum claims from . it's not asylum claims from. it's not this is our problem. it's country's problem. we shouldn't be shipping people off to other countries for them to deal and actually we deal with a far fewer number of migrants , asylum fewer number of migrants, asylum seekers than other european countries do. i think we've got real kind of island mentality here that we don't want anyone to come . and yes, we always have to come. and yes, we always have refugees and genuine refugees and asylum seekers, but actually it's never been easy for to come here. and i think anybody who gets in a boat with their baby is absolutely desperate and should and should we should be giving them sympathy, not trying to push them off somewhere else. mae, what's your view on this? do you think that it could move the dial rishi sunak if he stops the dial rishi sunak if he stops the boats? sorry, i'm just going to have to agree on some of those previous. last year , those previous. last year, 45,000 people came into this country and said that it's not

easy for people to come into this country. there are malta people people coming in now to assist our nhs because we have a lack of nurses and doctors and coming here with ease . i've met coming here with ease. i've met so many recently . so for us it's so many recently. so for us it's ludicrous to suggest we do not allow people in here and sick to death of people making. this also about some sort of racial loads countries across the world police immigration and controlled immigration at the of their priority priority nigeria barbados saudi arabia. no one has just unfettered borders and we are . paying 6 million every we are. paying 6 million every day house these immigrants and i think the government also makes multiple excuses oh, we need to leave that. no, we don't. because there's previous cases to suggest that we have actually ignored european law on this. for example, in 2005, john hirst with whether prisoners could vote we listen to europe so why

are listening now. multiple excuses. it needs to stop. and if rishi doesn't find the balls to do it, he's out . okay. we'll to do it, he's out. okay. we'll say it like is james. just because you've got your political ear to the ground . political ear to the ground. political correspondent at the spectator. i sometimes diary editor as well of that brilliant brilliant magazine how decisive do you think it could be if sunak's attempts stop these boats are convincing. you know if the red voters can see that something's happening that he's moving the dial, could it secure him another five years at number 10? well, i think there's certain swathe of the electorate that sees sunak as a sort of mr. fix a success for businessmen. labour likes use the prime labour likes to use the prime minister's wealth against him, but a certain number of but there's a certain number of voters see that as voters who actually see that as a thing, that he's a good thing, that he's successful business he's successful in business and he's getting reputation among getting a bit a reputation among some. to the sort of some. you talk to the sort of nicola sturgeon scotland. he nicola sturgeon in scotland. he looks been sell his looks like he's been to sell his brexit successfully and now

looks like he's been to sell his brexissue successfully and now looks like he's been to sell his brexissue , successfully and now looks like he's been to sell his brexissue , the :essfully and now looks like he's been to sell his brexissue , the small ly and now looks like he's been to sell his brexissue , the small boats now looks like he's been to sell his brexissue , the small boats of w this issue, the small boats of the five pledges he made, is the only that has primary only one that has primary legislation of it. legislation at the centre of it. if can get that through for if you can get that through for parliament election, parliament the next election, that will show a big big clear dividing line between the parties do go way. parties i think will do go way. i think the key point is that there a civil bullet like there isn't a civil bullet like rwanda. was over rwanda. i think that was over talks but doing talks overplayed. but doing things things things like that doing things like agreement to like the agreement albania to return albanians to come here i think will go a long way to show that is serious trying get that he is serious trying to get this james and hilary this done. james and hilary we'll back sharp for we'll be back at 1030 sharp for the papers. the break, the papers. after the break, i'll the results of i'll be revealing the results of our text poll. if rishi sunak can the, boats will win him can stop the, boats will win him the election. you the the next election. you the people spoken. the people have spoken. get the results straight after results of that straight after this. means guest this. also, my mark means guest is waiting in wings and he is waiting in the wings and he believes it's robin tilbrook of the english democrats . we should the english democrats. we should have or have english devolution or possibly english independence . possibly english independence. all of that .

next should and can rishi sunak stop the boats ? will it win him the the boats? will it win him the next election? howard mark, it's irrelevant for your guest hilary to compare all migrant numbers to compare all migrant numbers to other countries. they're all having terrible made the having terrible and i made the same huge mistake. the other aspect to this is that i suspect the many migrants counted in other countries at the moment are and passing are transients and passing through their to settle through on their way to settle permanently. here keep those emails coming. mark very easy to stop the boats. in six weeks there would be no boats. you see france and all nations. these leave port or territorial waters are subject to maritime law. not the law of the land. i'll get to more of your emails shortly, but it's more of your emails shortly, but wsfime more of your emails shortly, but it's time for this. more of your emails shortly, but it's time for this . oh tell you it's time for this. oh tell you what we've got to do first. we've got to do the poll result. you can tell it's live telecast. earlier in the show, we asked you if rishi sunak can stop the boats. it win him the next election. well, we've got the

results. 47.2% said yes, but 52.8% said no. not in march and all. and if i was rishi sunak, i. okay, well, i've lost that vote, but by much so it's just possible that if he acts on the boats it could help. okay, folks, it's time for this . it's folks, it's time for this. it's time now for mock meeting . i time now for mock meeting. i speak to the biggest names in the world of politics, showbiz and beyond, with relentless talk of scottish independence and replied re in enjoying replied re in wales enjoying support. why is english independence or at least devolution and not a greater talking point? well, it's a subject close to the heart of my mark meets guest tonight who is robin tilbrook tops alistair but also the leader of english democrats. robin, welcome to mark dolan tonight, thank you very much about notwithstanding that devolution be revenge for scottish devolution and welsh devolution does it stand as a goodideain devolution does it stand as a good idea in its own right for england? i think it does at. the moment where basically

subsidising scotland, wales and, northern ireland to the tune of probably something like £70 billion a year. does that tie in with in scotland the barnett formula . yes it's actually it is formula. yes it's actually it is it is the incumbent is not only an income figure it's also a figure as well. so what happens when the government decides it's going to spend 100 billion or so on hs2 ? you then get a vast on hs2? you then get a vast figure, come in of capital spending on for scott westmorland where haven't even got projects to put it on. so i've got some packet numbers here. you're suggesting that the union is effectively costing england between 60 and £70 billion a year? oh, at least. yes i mean, the last time at the last time the sums were properly done, it was £69 billion a year, which is about a third of the cost of the entire nhs. yes. and it's also at least triple by maybe quadruple the amount that

we once giving to the eu . so we once giving to the eu. so it's a huge sum . what do we get it's a huge sum. what do we get in exchange for it. my sort of jokey reaction is we get the bill and the blame because. the fact is we don't get any credit for that. people don't say, you know, england's kind and all this money and if what the british political establishment want to do is to break england up into regions and these these regions completely bogus, this nofion regions completely bogus, this notion of history of local mayors and all the rest of it. yes they're like the north—east of, for example . the reason why of, for example. the reason why , you know, that crashed as a project when prescot was trying to push for it is of course that they were basically trying to say that the whole of the people that live in the north, the north—east, were going be geordies. yeah good luck with that. didn't work very well. they got 79. vote against it. yeah, that's it. politicians try to superimpose their will on a community or on a region , an community or on a region, an area ignoring history and

ignonng area ignoring history and ignoring local culture. so what about the union? i mean, you , about the union? i mean, you, the united kingdom, it's country and all countries subsidise poorer parts . what's wrong with poorer parts. what's wrong with that? so we've got a situation where england, the poorer parts of england , get less subsidy of england, get less subsidy than some of the rich parts. scotland. all right. so you're you're arguing with the england rich scotland. poor is not the correct metric. no it doesn't. it doesn't. mean, we it's not it doesn't. i mean, we it's not donein it doesn't. i mean, we it's not done in a way that's fair. it's not intended to be fair it's intended to reward scotland, wales and northern ireland in a way that we don't get for england. so what's on your manifesto ? what part from that . manifesto? what part from that. independence for england. yeah. independence for england. yeah. i mean , that's that's the main. i mean, that's that's the main. is it independence is not just devolution. yes. so at one time we used to argue for a in engush we used to argue for a in english an english parliament, first minister and government equivalent to hollyrood with at

least the same powers as the scottish ones, our federal uk. what were you found? was that westminster politicians were saying england's too big . some saying england's too big. some reason you know the idea england is too big to have its own parliament. just ludicrous when you think you know, france perhaps . and also they were perhaps. and also they were really talking about wanting to break england up into these regions . and so what we've come regions. and so what we've come to really is that we have a choice between whether england is broken up or whether the uk broken up and for me, i'd rather have the uk broken up if that's the case. don't think england has actually been the major push behind this because obviously the running has been done so far in these arguments by scotland and to some extent wales and i think probably more in the future will be like northern ireland as because we've now had this court cases going all the way up to the supreme court in,

which it's been held that the a key part of the act of union got repealed without there even being an act to make it happen. you know, it's quite extraordinary. yeah and that's before you get to the belfast northern ireland agreements , northern ireland agreements, good friday agreement, all of that. good friday agreement, all of that . how would good friday agreement, all of that. how would england fare good friday agreement, all of that . how would england fare its that. how would england fare its own internationally, economically , militarily? so the economically, militarily? so the main argument i've encountered over the years with particularly senior tory politicians , is what senior tory politicians, is what they say that the reason why we've got to keeps the union is because it enables us to punch our weight on the world stage . our weight on the world stage. they didn't come up with any other sensible argument to because there isn't any really because. england on its own would be a rich country, you know, some would be rich, it would be rich and in fact terrible to what sort of other countries? know, countries? well you know, switzerland , sweden. you were switzerland, sweden. you were mentioning earlier. yeah one of my favourite countries . and but my favourite countries. and but well, listen, what about the

emotional argument listeners, emotional argument my listeners, my watching in my viewers are watching in belfast. in cardiff. belfast. they're in cardiff. they're up edinburgh and they're up in edinburgh and glasgow aberdeen . i'd hate glasgow and aberdeen. i'd hate to them . well, you don't to lose them. well, you don't have an emotional and often emotional attachment to still be friendly. i mean, you know , fact friendly. i mean, you know, fact is, canada's independent. oh, are not friendly with canada are we not friendly with canada 7 are we not friendly with canada ? are friendly with with ? are we friendly with with a australia? they still got the same monarchies as i'm sure i'm sure you admired the queen. i'm sure you admired the queen. i'm sure you admire our current king and what they represent, what they for is the united they stand for is the united kingdom of that great britain and northern ireland. you know, it's you want to it's our country you want to break. was crown england break. it was crown of england beforehand, it. mhm. and beforehand, wasn't it. mhm. and what the north—south what about the north—south divide. would there be issues . divide. would there be issues. would it accentuate the north—south if we had england alone would not become two countries in itself. of course , countries in itself. of course, because the whole point of because the whole point of because that's how know italy they hate each the north and south. yes but italy only was unified in 1863 england was unified in 1863 england was unified in 1863 england was unified in 1927. you know we

have this immense history, the longest history of any nation state on earth of being a united entity, fascinate in conversation. i can understand you're engaged in it. i'm a little because i do love our union. but you raise some great points. thank you for what the show is all about. so do come back and. see us again soon. my thanks to you. thank you. robin tilbrook, who the leader of tilbrook, who is the leader of the democrats. lots more the english democrats. lots more to including papers .

next my talk producer, mark will be happy we're bang on time. it's 1030 and it's time for this . 1030 and it's time for this. yes, we got tomorrow's papers. hot the press. we shall start with the indian and they lead with the indian and they lead with the indian and they lead with the following . sunak vowel

with the following. sunak vowel to end small boat crossings doomed to fail say senior tories . this ties in with my take at ten, which you can catch now on twitter at gb news. courtesy of ben from all digital team rishi sunak's latest pledge to stop illegal channel migrants before the election could backfire. according to senior conservative, the prime minister is expected to unveil new legislation this week designed to stop asylum seekers from using human rights to avoid deportation . but senior tories deportation. but senior tories have told the independent fear he has over promised and will be forced to break his pledge to stop the boats . they also say stop the boats. they also say the clock is ticking and that a political wrangling , the new political wrangling, the new laws will mean they'll be held up in parliaments and won't reach statute book in time for polling day. well, i just wonder whether if you take steps towards solving the problem voters may acknowledge that, but time will tell . the guardian time will tell. the guardian now. small boats clamp down

sunak and police refer child sex victims to immigration children who have been sexually exploited and women who have been attacked by their partners are among more than 2000 victims of serious crime reported by police to immigration and also anti strike bill breaks human rights rules, government legislation kerb strike action fails to meet the uk's human rights obligations. mps peers have said. so is going on strike a human right? we'll discuss that with my panel. daily mail boat to get life back on. migrants will be hit with a lifetime ban on entering britain under proposed laws . the tough under proposed laws. the tough new measures will impose indefinite entry bans on all migrants who arrive in this country by irregular routes such as small boats . ministers hope as small boats. ministers hope it will send a strong message deter migrants from crossing the channel anyone caught coming britain by illegal routes would also face a lifetime ban on securing the right to settle permanently the uk and it would

preclude achieving british citizenship. a royal special the mail. harry can have of frogmore if he accepts coronation invitation . the bartering goes invitation. the bartering goes on the hefty beijing's 5% expansion target signals . excuse expansion target signals. excuse beijing's 5% expansion target signals the end of an era of rip roaring. they don't do very punchy headlines in the et, do they? what they're saying is that china are going to aim for 5% economic growth, which is a fraction of what they used to achieve. how about the i now. budget 2023 hunt and sooner head for tax clash with tory backbenches. chancellor and minister are set to rule out a cut to corporations tax in next week's slimmed down budget, putting them on a collision course with. boris johnson and liz truss them . metro liz truss remember them. metro the tide is turning a historic agreement to protect the world's oceans has been signed at the un after ten years of talks between 200 countries and held greenpeace as the biggest conservation ever. the high seas

treaty grants protected status to 30% of international waters by 2030, compared with 1.2% now. and last but not least , the and last but not least, the daily star seven. and what does this seven and i think it says seven and how essentially basically liverpool have beaten man united seven nil. one of the biggest results for liverpool in many years and also the big three is britain as cold as the arctic. three snow storms to hit this week and motorists are on high alert . this week and motorists are on high alert. snow and ice are coming . time to get those coming. time to get those wellies out again , folks. and wellies out again, folks. and your bobble hat and your chunky jumper. let's watch that with my fantastic commentators tonight . fantastic commentators tonight. we have broadcaster, author and agony aunt hilary freeman always cheers us up with her words of wisdom when she's on the show. a brand new star on mark dolan tonight james heald, political correspondent the spectator . correspondent at the spectator. and last but not least, social commentator and political broadcaster lin mei can i talk to you about the tax cuts and

the forthcoming budget? james, you'll be reporting on this at length in the spectator budget 2023. right. the | length in the spectator budget 2023. right. the i hunt and sunak head for new tax clash with tory backbenchers . with tory backbenchers. corporation tax set to be from 19% to 25% and they won't back down. yes, and this was originally in march 2021. so there's been cutting for a long time now. but as we get closer to budget, obviously conservative mp getting worried about it. we've already seen us presenting to the big pharmaceutical , relocating pharmaceutical giant, relocating over lotteries jumpy over to ireland lotteries jumpy saying hang on, say what was the brexit freedom for not going to use it to of cut taxes. i use it to kind of cut taxes. i mean attractive place for business. so i'm not to see this. was actually a letter this. it was actually a letter signed by groups representing 250 ago and 250 mps two weeks ago and i think it's going to a big, think it's going to be a big, big over the next fortnight big row over the next fortnight before budget the 15th. before the budget on the 15th. it's safety first from jeremy, the chancellor safety first from rishi about rishi sunak's all about reassuring international reassuring the international bond those lend the to us bond those that lend the to us

to pay for the nhs , the police to pay for the nhs, the police and all the rest of it. thus is the aspiration of tory backbenchers and the needs , the backbenchers and the needs, the economy and the need for growth . so it seems like hunt and sunak are going to push with this, but they haven't really won the within their own party, have they? that's very good point. think i actually talked point. i think i actually talked to what they use it to tory mps the what they use it as over so say let's as an over so they say let's trust a bit too far in trust went a bit too far in making these tax cuts necessary without kind of borrowing to back up it but now back it up behind it but now they that's going too they say that's going a bit too far the and actually they're far the way and actually they're concerned actually concerned that it's actually about to sort of do about trying to sort of do abacus economics rather than trying see what's going be trying see what's going to be best investment but best for investment in uk. but sunak's i mean he's sunak's not stupid i mean he's politically course politically astute. of course he knows economy . he was knows the economy. he was chancellor for a long time , a chancellor for a long time, a good time throughout the good about time throughout the pandemic. made his pandemic. anyway and he made his money in the city. so. so why he pressing on with this ? is it a pressing on with this? is it a case of have pain now and then the pleasure later? is that or is all about you know, an amazingly budget before the next

election ? there's also the election? there's also the concern i think that uk are not be actually investing in talent in the uk they haven't actually been training up staff and i think the concern is that if you don't have a corporation tax deal with this, i mean you raise all the taxes to make up the balance sheet. if you balance sheet. i think if you look at the polling and the lot the tory voters actually the tory 2019 voters actually prefer increases rather prefer spending increases rather than cuts and got to pay than tax cuts and you got to pay for somehow this seems to for that somehow this seems to be the solution is the least of the least amount pain. but the least amount of pain. but it's something, you that it's something, as you say, that hasn't as even hasn't actually sold as on even though baby and that's though this is baby and that's what's interesting here what's really interesting here is that they had a big fight in the cabinet with truss liz the cabinet with liz truss liz it lost argument but they it lost the argument but they won leadership off back won the leadership off the back of that shows that tory of that and that shows that tory mp not mp and members are not necessarily convinced the necessarily convinced is the right way forward. lynn, what do you is for britain? you think is best for britain? i think need to get back to think we need to get back to what want as what the electorate want as well. truss one, because her well. liz truss one, because her third was taxes. third message was cut taxes. sunak unelected. i understand sunak is unelected. i understand he's to play but he's desperate to play safe. but then listening to who then what about listening to who put there put the conservatives there in the place and if there is the first place and if there is going to be some sort of

argument battled and i will be team liz truss and johnson because as we need to because as much as we need to play because as much as we need to play it safe, i do think has gone far as i always say and gone too far as i always say and i know many people hate to hear this, we are not the great britain of the past terms of the industrial revolution. we really manufacture agriculture is manufacture our agriculture is not the best. what we have is , not the best. what we have is, our financial our our financial services, our insurance and if those people decide move, we have much and decide to move, we have much and we growth . the tide is we need growth. the tide is turning. hillary freeman a historic agreement to protect the world's has been signed at the world's has been signed at the un after ten years of talks between 200 countries as the high treaty grants protected status to 30% of internation waters by 2030. at the moment 1.2% of international waters are protected , we can debate net protected, we can debate net zero till the cows come home. we home and we can debate climate change and all the rest of it. divergent views, but i can't think there's too many people . think there's too many people. they want to clean up the oceans . no, absolutely. and i was actually in london today and

looking at all these kind of sea creatures, many of which had labels on saying these are these are diminishing species. they're endangered . so, yeah, i think endangered. so, yeah, i think that everybody supports this . i that everybody supports this. i think it's got to be a good thing. and we've also in keeping with that, we've got to clean up our own waters haven't. we and we've got to sort out companies pump we've got to sort out companies pump into the english pump sewage into the english channel. yeah and off the south coast indeed and i, i coast england indeed and i, i think as i said before, you know, i think that these kinds of issues, the waters should not profit making companies running them. yeah. if you see that it's just as a public good infrastructure . yeah. shouldn't infrastructure. yeah. shouldn't be subject to commercial pressures . fascinating story pressures. fascinating story here in may in the guardian anti strike bill breaks rights rules the government legislation to kerb strike action fails to meet the uk's human case. human rights obligations. the joint committee human rights says the proposed anti strike laws are

not justified and need to be reconsidered . well is going on reconsidered. well is going on strike strike a human rights well when we come back to almost the boats argument of the e c h r under uk law. no, it's not doesn't break human rights in terms of. however, article 11 of the eci are says that it is a human right. so will we support or will we allow for the strike bill? but my thing is this they didn't say they're going to stop strikes. they said they're going to have a level of service which will protect the population , will protect the population, which we need . so which is what we need. so i think this is a bit of a non—starter by the guardian, as per usual. i you might be right on that, james. i wouldn't you to leap defend the to leap in and defend the guardian. they try if you guardian. no they try if you want . the, the story here is want. the, the story here is that it's emergency service isn't it. ambulances. yeah and i think actually if you look back at the debate, i think was 84, 85 when they were discussing whether ghq staff in cheltenham should be allowed on should be allowed to go on strike, government that strike, the government won that fight because they said that actually, you know, if you're working industry

working in a critical industry like top secret like hq dealing with top secret government communications, you shouldn't on shouldn't be allowed to go on strike. i would be interested to see how plays i see how this plays out. i suspect be one of suspect it's going to be one of those issues where, again, we're now in the fourth year of a five year parliament, might be year parliament, it might be something delayed and something that gets delayed and gummed house lords gummed up in the house of lords rather take rather than actually take effect. wonder because effect. but i wonder because i mean on the new labour's of course, labour had previously promised back all these promised to roll back all these laws and strikes. laws on the unions and strikes. i touch them. i never actually touch them. i think probably will robot think they probably will robot this back, this back, but this back, this one back, but i think you know, going think that, you know, it's going to played out. what i would to be played out. what i would say is, is the had a majority of 70 in the commons and that's because the tory party is because all the tory party is well this one. well behind this one. fascinating going fascinating stuff. we're going to hillary james to come back to hillary james lynn just moment because lynn in just a moment because what what are what more papers, mark? what are we waiting for? think we've got we've got the times and the express up looking express coming up looking forward front forward to getting those front pages. trump he pages. also, donald trump is he on back to the white on his way back to the white house? what would mean for britain? we'll henry about britain? we'll ask henry about that. with rage, james, britain? we'll ask henry about that. by with rage, james, britain? we'll ask henry about that. by the with rage, james, britain? we'll ask henry about that. by the looksage, james, britain? we'll ask henry about that. by the looks that|ames, britain? we'll ask henry about that. by the looks that made excited by the looks that made me got that lots me agnostic. we got that lots more stories as well. don't go

anywhere. the express is .

next still with reacting to tomorrow's papers, journalists and author hillary freeman, the political correspondent at the spectator james he'll and the social commentator and political broadcaster lynn may . actually broadcaster lynn may. actually i should just ask you briefly, james, you co—wrote a book about liz truss? i did, yes with harry cold the sun . i did indeed. i cold the sun. i did indeed. i think we wrote it in 65 days and she was out 49 days. so it's a very rare thing to go from being a political biographer to political obituaries. yeah. you wrote you wrote the book in anticipation a long and anticipation of a long and glorious career, perhaps margaret thatcher mark, too, and that you'd be getting on the sales years and updated sales for years and updated editions. i know , i think she editions. i know, i think she movie. yeah managed to cram 15 years of margaret thatcher into

professor 50 weeks or so but actually the book made a splash different reasons. yes, quite. and it is the only book i suppose you have monopoly on suppose you have a monopoly on that that's been. no i'm that so that's been. no i'm writing too. you. writing one too. are you. actually i writing comedies . actually i writing comedies. well, the come back well, you know she the come back you know the sequel. yeah listen, think i think possibly listen, i think i think possibly i mean, you know, clearly there were misjudgements regard were some misjudgements regard to the execution to the delivery, the execution that mini—budget , maybe dotting that mini—budget, maybe dotting the i's that mini—budget, maybe dotting the 1's and crossing the t's word for it, maybe. but i wonder whether history might judge truss touch than has so truss a touch than it has so far. i think . well, think that far. i think. well, i think that i think the battle will be for the party. and i think be nice to see. does have a legacy to see. does she have a legacy in party? well, there in the party? well, there you go. happens? it's go. what happens? yeah, it's interesting they interesting because. once they reversed cuts, the imf reversed her tax cuts, the imf came out the next day and said, oh, britain's going less oh, britain's going have less economic year. economic growth next year. i think the predictions are think the imf's predictions are not necessarily reliable. not necessarily most reliable. if those with if someone will take those with a i promise two a pinch of salt. i promise two more papers and. where we more papers and. where should we start? mark let's go to the times if we can. newspaper of record this country . migrants record in this country. migrants on boats to be barred from

britain a story we've covered extensively, including my take at ten, which you can watch on gb news. do you really want that job it with a winning job then say it with a winning smile. this according to new research from the association for the advancement of science conference in washington and johnson nominates his father for a knighthood . stanley to become a knighthood. stanley to become sir stanley daily express ending channel migrant crisis can win election . well, i'll tell you election. well, i'll tell you what. it's like. they've been watching the show. tory deputy chairman says new legislation is a clear dividing line with labour and also william and harry. remember that ? and harry harry. remember that? and harry and meghan. surely can't snub king's olive branch . harry, the king's olive branch. harry, the king's olive branch. harry, the king has said he will accommodate harry and meghan at cottage if they accept the invitation to the coronation. that royal soap opera rolls on. those are your front pages. let's get into some of these stories now. do you it's appropriate for boris johnson give his father a knighthood.

hillary no, really? no i think dad's still around. my dad is still . you give him a knighthood still. you give him a knighthood if you were a crime, he. well, he deserves one slightly different . but, yeah, different. but, yeah, i certainly have the power to give people a knighthood. yeah, i think it's so slightly , perhaps. think it's so slightly, perhaps. yeah what do you think, james? is this the best look for our former incumbent? well, he put his brother in the lords. so this is certainly a he's not going to have a vote on things to, say, in parliament. look, i you know, stanley obviously has some sense that he some claim in the sense that he was an elected representative, sorry, at the time he was unelected, but member of the european time european parliament at the time in seventies. i think in the seventies. but i think that is just boris that yeah, this is just boris being really it's is being boris really and it's is always hard to take that always quite hard to take that yourself. idea a comeback yourself. the idea of a comeback queen day, it seems, queen every other day, it seems, is newspapers, stories is splashed newspapers, stories like this. yeah. okay. well, that will feel from that will will mr. feel from that will will mr. feel from that a very man. that stand. he's a very man. he's show regularly he's been on the show regularly and used co—present a show on and we used co—present a show on channel 4 years ago called the

last word. is is a good last word. and is he is a good egg.soif last word. and is he is a good egg. so if he it, then egg. so if he gets it, then congratulations. let's have a look and it relates look at another. and it relates to eastenders. has been to eastenders. the bbc has been criticised for screening an eastenders storyline , a girl who eastenders storyline, a girl who becomes pregnant at just. in the plot lily is mother stacie played by lacey turner encourages the child to keep baby while the parents of the father trying to get her to have an abortion . is this storyline an abortion. is this storyline a step too far? hilary you write a lot about people and their problems. you're an agony aunt. what do you think of this? well think the main problem with this storyline is that it's just not realistic. the number of 12 year olds getting pregnant in this country is probably you could probably count on one hand the teenage pregnancy rate is going down thank goodness . and it's down thank goodness. and it's just you know it's just a point in a story. i don't really it's just sensationalist, really. right and from a kind of ethical point, from a moral point of view , i have a problem with the view, i have a problem with the

fact that soap operas always seem to have these teenage or teenage storylines , teenage pregnancy storylines, and always oh, they always and they always oh, they always keep the baby . and i don't keep the baby. and i don't really feel like that's moralising or finger wagging . moralising or finger wagging. yes, i think there is some pro—life. there is a slight pro—life. there is a slight pro—life message there. and again, it's just not realistic. you know, a 12 year old having a child , you know, that is going child, you know, that is going to ruin the rest of its life. the mother is the person who's going to be bringing it up and, you to discount you know, just to discount having an abortion every single time in a soap. they time in a soap. and they go, they the baby. i don't they have the baby. i don't understand why this is happening. you think the happening. do you think the media negatively ? media characterises negatively? and i think , i don't know if the and i think, i don't know if the media it negatively perhaps it's something to do with it's more dramatic to have the baby . but dramatic to have the baby. but i definitely there is some sort of there is some sort of underlying problem and i give some of these script writers, they sort of equate keeping the baby with a happy ending somehow, which you would argue is propaganda. yeah, it is. and not a happy

it is. and it's not a happy ending . the reason why ending. the reason why i disagree, i do agree . when you disagree, i do agree. when you say there's hardly any teenage pregnancies sorry, not even teenage 12 year olds. yeah, but being if i'm admitting this being if i'm admitting this being watcher of eastenders, if we were to cast on my back the storyline leading up to that of the year old daughter feeling neglected ostracised and how this happened , she was bored. this happened, she was bored. maybe it will make some parents actually think, well maybe i need to speak to my child. the reality is it could happen . reality is it could happen. well, i would again agree with you some sort of level of ardern approach of keep the, keep the baby and it's her body, it's her it is. but she's still 12. so in really and truly parents should have a huge involvement. it's her choice, so to speak . but i her choice, so to speak. but i don't think it's if you saying it's not realistic when what soaps ever there to be realistic they're not really one where everyone lives around the same block. isn't this far from reality ? they're not they're not

reality? they're not they're not meant to be realistic . but they meant to be realistic. but they have a responsibility when covering social issues. yeah, they do i think they do. okay james. yeah? you're up and you're always keen to talk about pregnant because i want to go ahead. topics touchy subject . ahead. topics touchy subject. yeah, well, men kind of love easter disasters, you know , what easter disasters, you know, what i would say is that i mean , the i would say is that i mean, the story line i think was interesting and, you know, i read it this article and i learned as a result of it that we've actually had an 11 year old who is pregnant. this country to four, country gave birth to four, which shocking itself. she which is shocking itself. she was right. yeah, i know. it's a shocking shocking point, shocking stats, shocking point, but i think point these but i think the point of these dramas they raise dramas be that they raise awareness issues and awareness of social issues and you they're at teenage you mentioned they're at teenage pregnancy. ago, the uk pregnancy. 20 years ago, the uk had worst pregnancy rate, had the worst pregnancy rate, teenage and teenage pregnancy in europe. and as a number of as a result of a number of issues campaigns awareness of this include of course this issue include of course a plotline eastenders. yeah, plotline in eastenders. yeah, this government this was a huge government effort this problem this was a huge government effomow this problem this was a huge government effomow actuallyiis problem this was a huge government effomow actually weyroblem this was a huge government effomow actually we have m this was a huge government effomow actually we have one of and now actually we have one of the teenage pregnancy in the lowest teenage pregnancy in western that western europe. so i think that actually things good can actually things can good can come of this kind of storylines as long as it's done sensitively

the i think, you the right way. i think, you know, role to know, eastenders has a role to play know, eastenders has a role to play this, sure. but you play in this, sure. but you know, you could teach about contraception, could contraception, you could teach about, things, about, you know, other things, not just like let's have the baby. abortion equally baby. abortion could equally damage later damage someone in their later life. so you're that an life. so you're that having an abortion is the answer but it's not always the evidence that abortion necessarily would damage someone people damage someone to the people that abortions would that would have abortions would disagree a massive disagree they had a massive effect their mental health. effect on their mental health. yeah, well, i think we look yeah, well, we i think we look at stats for that. but, you at the stats for that. but, you know, a baby of 12 know, having a baby at the of 12 that not even just in that they're not even just in terms of education in terms of work in the future in terms of economic you know physically a 12 year old is not capable of carrying a baby and giving birth to a baby without sustaining a lot damage if they're not not developed enough . yeah, you developed enough. yeah, you would hope, wouldn't you ? the would hope, wouldn't you? the woman has been through full before. yeah. conceiving no way. i'm suggesting that year olds should have children. i'm listen, it's an interesting debate, and one well worth having . let's move on to another

having. let's move on to another absolutely key. and it's etiquette . jackie vernon etiquette. jackie vernon thompson is an etiquette expert and been talking to the daily mail this weekend about how you should behave . you're staying as should behave. you're staying as a guest, as someone else's house. what are the rules when you're a guest at someone else's place? jackie says , that, for place? jackie says, that, for example , improper, wrong example, improper, wrong etiquette is using your host's gel, right? you should not that what sort of soaps and things that right that's to bring you out do you think. i mean what do you do? you go to someone's house. can you use their shampoo. can you use jojo you didn't you at all ask out of common. do you mind if i use the doll as it should be. yes. if someone said no, you can. why did you invite me over then? yeah, but what they've only yeah, but what if they've only got bit of head shoulders got a bit of head and shoulders left and use the last drop? left and you use the last drop? you should have thought about that invited me. that before you're invited me. i mean, of living costs mean, the cost of living costs bad, mean, come on, we bad, but i mean, come on, we really. penny say, i love really. penny got to say, i love using other people's toilet,

because then i come out of the shower i'm. oh, tea tree. shower and i'm. oh, tea tree. what i don't know. what do you smell? i don't know. you know, etiquette i you know, the etiquette in i live because live on a boat live because i live on a boat and we have a pump out toilet and we have a pump out toilet andifs and we have a pump out toilet and it's a nightmare is if somebody else sees the toilet, you of say, well, what do you kind of say, well, what do you kind of say, well, what do you to the office? you want to go to the office? yeah yeah. it makes me seasick. seasick. just thinking about it. i look, we've together i will look, we've put together a little an etiquette quiz a little quiz an etiquette quiz for very brought up and for my very well brought up and polite james, here's polite panel. so, james, here's a teaser you. should a brain teaser for you. should you be replacing empty toilet rolls if one runs out? yes, of course . and i and i wish iwas course. and i and i wish i was better at doing remembering certain things around the house. what if the toilet roll is running can finish the running low, can you finish the roll someone else's house and roll at someone else's house and you roll you don't another new roll anywhere? do you just suffer anywhere? or do you just suffer with you know, say be with oh, you know, you say be politely. you know, you pointed out finished the new roll. out you'd finished the new roll. yeah, monster roll . what if yeah, you monster roll. what if ineeded yeah, you monster roll. what if i needed to ? i mean, then really i needed to? i mean, then really i'm just wearing i wear another pair of underpants . you can pair of underpants. you can panel the agreement. i just get

copy of the guardian and just use that as self help. i'm only kidding . okay, how about this? kidding. okay, how about this? the answer is. yes, etiquette says. the answer is. yes, etiquette says . you should replace an says. you should replace an empty toilet roll lane if you empty toilet roll lane if you empty your house. dishwasher should you put the mugs in the cupboard or face up ? i cupboard face down or face up? i do face up depends what i would have a look what they have. what do you think? so you wipe say face up i don't like the ring when. you put it down. i don't think it's hygienic either. it. yeah, well the answer is you're right, you've got it is right, you've got glass. it is face up and hillary, how you face up and hillary, how do you take shoes when entering take your shoes when entering someone's no someone's home? yes or no i would ask if i if they if i showed you. yeah. because some people could offended if you took shoes yeah took your shoes off. yeah exactly. what doing? exactly. so what are you doing? i always but you know, i always ask. but you know, frank i always they say no. frank i always hope they say no. you know how it how you don't know how it is. how you are, because the answer is ask is, well look, i've been in the house tonight and i've loved every thank to my every minute thank you to my wonderful wasn't wonderful panel. it wasn't greatest first outing, first of many. of the many. and of course, the brilliant hillary will brilliant lynne hillary will return as well. for return soon as well. thanks for your really enjoyed your company. i really enjoyed

the three shows. thanks the last three shows. thanks listening and watching. back listening and watching. i'm back on friday exactly 8:00. see you then. a headline is his.

next welcome back to gb news. i'm armstrong. let's get you up to date with the headlines. frighten the pants off everyone that was matt hancock's plan to ensure public compliance with constantly changing covid during the pandemic leaked whatsapp messages in the sunday telegraph how the former health secretary and his aides discussed to utilise fear over a new strain of the virus to make people obey shadow work and pensions secretary jonathan ashworth told us mr. hancock's political career is over. i think the key thing is, is that he is a councillor himself in front of an inquiry . he councillor himself in front of an inquiry. he it comes back to this point it why we need this

inquiry to take place quickly