the system. is it basically a laughing stock right now.7 i the system. is it basically a laughing stock right now? i ask because get this, boris johnson is rumoured is going to try and give his dad one. really? i mean, come on now . is it give his dad one. really? i mean, come on now. is it time for serious reform? what about the house of lords more generally, should we just reform that, get rid of or what's that, get rid of it or what's your thoughts that and which that, get rid of it or what's yo bythoughts that and which that, get rid of it or what's yo by going|ts that and which that, get rid of it or what's yoby going plungedit and which that, get rid of it or what's yoby going plunged membernhich that, get rid of it or what's yoby going plunged member oneh is by going plunged member one of his top five priorities was stopping the boats he didn't say halving them reduce them. he was very clear wasn't a he is going to stop them is he really what do you reckon to this plan to reckon it worked you reckon he's

even got the guy who knows to follow because talk indeed follow it because talk is indeed cheap, gambling. do cheap, isn't it? gambling. do you think that the government needs to get tougher when it comes regulating that comes to regulating that particular industry in this country ? or are we basically country? or are we basically a bunch of adults who could manage ourselves? thank you very much, sir. but our government, if you don't mind, to all three of us, apparently so , that apparently so, that we want a new political party in this country. it would surprise you to know that people on my panel tonight, advisers to labour and the tories would perhaps say no to that, would say to that, but i would say definitely time for it. as long as you've a change as well. as you've made a change as well. so the political so that so the political system, so that they actually stand they could actually stand a chance. do you say? it's chance. what do you say? it's a way above it all to convert. first, let me hand over to polly middlehurst tonight's latest middlehurst for tonight's latest headunes. middlehurst for tonight's latest headlines . michelle, thank you headlines. michelle, thank you and good evening to our top story on gb news. tonight, the former police officer wayne cozens has been sentenced to a further 19 months in prison

after he pleaded guilty to three charges of indecent acts . charges of indecent acts. mosher. the court heard how he was meant to be on duty and working from home when he exposed himself to a woman in a country lane just months before he murdered sarah everard . the he murdered sarah everard. the 50 year old is already serving a whole life sentence for the murder of ms. everard in 2021. well, in a statement from the metropolitan police today, they said the latest crimes brought shame on us all at the service . shame on us all at the service. also the news today, charite allies are warning thousands of asylum seekers will be left permanently in limbo under new government plans to tackle illegal immigration. the new legislation would mean those crossing the english channel in small boats would be banned from claiming asylum and from returning to the uk. the government has proposed to provide more safe routes and gb news can reveal more than 3000 people have already crossed the channel so far this year. that's

nearly double the year before. shadow home secretary yvette cooper says the government isn't doing enough . we need action to doing enough. we need action to stop the dangerous boat crossings that are putting lives at risk and also undermine border security. that's why we've called for new cross border police unit to go after the criminal gangs that really driving this. as well as a new agreement with france and an overhaul of the asylum system to end hotel use. but all we've got so far at the moment is just headune so far at the moment is just headline signs from the government that look like they're a repeat of the headlines. they had around last year's bill, which just didn't work. and ended up making things worse . yvette cooper now worse. yvette cooper now tributes have been paid to the three people killed in a car crash in cardiff . 21 year old crash in cardiff. 21 year old eve smith and 21 year old darcy ross. eve smith and 21 year old darcy ross . 24 year eve smith and 21 year old darcy ross. 24 year old eve smith and 21 year old darcy ross . 24 year old rafael jean ross. 24 year old rafael jean all died in the accident and two others, 20 year old sophie rousseau and 32 year old shane

loughlin , have been left loughlin, have been left seriously injured . police seriously injured. police investigating the crash say the group went missing after a night out on friday were last seen in the early hours of saturday morning . now, cabinet ministers morning. now, cabinet ministers have accused labour of having breached impartiality rules in the civil service that is after former senior civil servant sue gray was offered the position of sir keir starmer's new chief of staff. the government has cast doubts on whether ms. grey , who doubts on whether ms. grey, who led the investigation into partygate, has followed due process to notify officials regarding her new role at an urgent question this afternoon in the house of commons. the deputy labour leader, angela rayner , accused the government rayner, accused the government of stirring up so—called conspiracy theories . but conspiracy theories. but paymaster general jeremy quin demanded labour publish a record of their meetings with ms. grey. the party opposite talks about rules. they talk about transparency. they talk about

standards in public life . given standards in public life. given all the constant talk , it's time all the constant talk, it's time they walked the walk . why are they walked the walk. why are they walked the walk. why are they refusing to publish? were they refusing to publish? were they met with sue gray ? why are they met with sue gray? why are they met with sue gray? why are they being evasive? why can't they being evasive? why can't they tell us what they discussed ? where they met? how often they met? their refusal to do so begs the question exactly what is labour trying to hide . peers and labour trying to hide. peers and mps are warning that the prime minister's new strike bill is likely to be in breach of the european convention on human rights. the proposals aim to ensure minimum working standards dunng ensure minimum working standards during industrial action across six sectors, including health and transport. cross—party committee on human rights has called on the government to reconsider the legislation. meanwhile the unite union has called off air ambulance strike action today and wednesday in england in order to hold pay talks with the government . and talks with the government. and firefighters have voted

overwhelmingly to accept their new pay offer. ending the prospect of strike action . the prospect of strike action. the dealis prospect of strike action. the deal is for a 7% pay increase, backdated to july last year, plus an additional 5% from july. 96. the fire brigade union members accepted the offer , but members accepted the offer, but general secretary matt wrack admitted it was another real terms pay cut that tennis star novak djokovic has been forced to withdraw from the indian wells tennis tournament in california because of his covid vaccinations status. international visitors to the united states are still required to have received two jabs against coronavirus. to have received two jabs against coronavirus . but the against coronavirus. but the world number one, is unvaccinated , he said. the unvaccinated, he said. the country's restrictions are due to end next month, and the tennis star had been hoping for a special exempt action. as the tournament recedes. on wednesday , that's all from me. i'm back in another now. other hour's time . now here's.

time. now here's. michelle hello . that i'm michelle hello. that i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company right through until 7:00 tonight. kip, you may company is john mcternan the political strategist and a former adviser to tony blair. and mark lehane , to tony blair. and mark lehane, who's an adviser to the team. so howie, and now is the head of education at the centre for policy studies . welcome, policy studies. welcome, gentlemen . and you know the gentlemen. and you know the drill, don't you want dewbs& co? it's not just about us three here. it is very much about you at home. what's on your mind tonight? what thinking tonight? what are you thinking about? such about? getting such gbviews@gbnews.uk. or you can tweet me at gb news at. lots coming up tonight. i want to talk to you about the honour system. i want to talk to you about rishi sunak plans. small but i want to ask you whether or not you're reckoning. we need a new political party well. i'm new political party as well. i'm gambling. think the gambling. do you think the government do more government needs to do more to regulate, think? quite regulate, or do you think? quite frankly, how, if don't

frankly, but how, if you don't mind, is your mind mind, whatever is on your mind tonight. get in touch. let me know. i'll tell you. by the way, something that is my something else that is on my mind. briefly, little rant mind. very briefly, little rant i have because i saw i want to have because i saw a story that we can that caught my eye. you that 14 year eye. you remember that 14 year old in wakefield island that old boy in wakefield island that had copy of koran? had damaged a copy of the koran? well, are to be well, if rumours are to be believed, kid has now had believed, that kid has now had to into so just want to go into hiding. so just want to go into hiding. so just want to off my chest to say it. to get off my chest to say it. shame on all of you that have been in that. frankly, been involved in that. frankly, a little boy having to leave his house because of threats a house because of threats in a country have blasphemy country we don't have blasphemy laws. get ourselves laws. we don't get ourselves regulated sharia in regulated by sharia in this country. on of you country. shame on all of you from the of that at that from the top of that at that little weird conference thing. to teachers involved, to all the teachers involved, the you , this will get the lot of you, this will get worse people do not worse and worse if people do not have kahuna to up to have the kahuna to stand up to it. what i say. anyway, it. that's what i say. anyway, runs over. let's get on with the show in hand, shall we pass? johnson. have you seen this today? people are today? apparently people are outraged. stifle outraged. i say i have to stifle a because i do think it's a laugh because i do think it's borderline ridiculous, quite frankly. but anyway, rumour would you would have it. of course you have these resignation honours list now. guess who potentially

is couldn't this is on it? you couldn't make this up. apparently . i've got up. is dad apparently. i've got to i don't actually know to say, i don't actually know why would be on it. i don't why that would be on it. i don't think that detail has been revealed yet. the mind boggles. but anyway, mark your thoughts. isuppose but anyway, mark your thoughts. i suppose the surprise i suppose the big surprise for me planning to me is that he wasn't planning to make his dad a lord, his brothers. he made his brother a lord in the house of lord in pitman in the house of lords. the only thing is lords. i mean, the only thing is the honour system different. prime ministers do it different ways. normally when they resigned, opportunity resigned, it is an opportunity to say thank you to people that's helped their that's helped them in their career. there's of other career. there's lots of other names there. david cameron names in there. david cameron did previous labour did it previous labour politicians don't politicians did it. so i don't think should too be surprised think we should too be surprised he's has is it the he's done it. has it is it the nail the coffin boris nail in the coffin for boris seizing and undermining? i think most people have made their mind up johnson already. up about boris johnson already. you him and you either love him and you still he's the thing still think he's the best thing since and like since sliced bread. and like nadine and or nadine dorries and co. or you think he's worst prime think he's the worst prime minister we've ever had or somewhere between? i don't somewhere in between? i don't think is going change think this is going to change people's views about it and i want go back well as i want to go back as well as i want to go back as well as i want ponder, do we think this want to ponder, do we think this means we should

means basically we should just reform system because reform this whole system because it embarrassing now, it is a bit embarrassing now, isn't anyway, john, isn't it? anyway, john, your thoughts it. a man who thoughts on it. a man who resigned in disgrace, it's like bofis resigned in disgrace, it's like boris johnson did, should not have resignation list. have a resignation honours list. that's the first thing about that. the second thing is, that. and the second thing is, is going to give honours to is he going to give honours to every member's family? every single member's family? his dad. his brother? no, his dad. what about sister? what's he about his sister? what's he going christmas to going to say at christmas to his sister? sorry i couldn't give you that i left you. you that around. i left you. i want to leave you like there's something about this which stinks. saying something about this which stinks.you saying something about this which stinks.you to saying something about this which stinks.you to your/ing something about this which stinks.you to your dad in the thank you to put your dad in the in the house of lords or to put your dad give your dad a knighthood is it's some strange kind of freudian relationship thing the public thing worked out in the public and being abused and the system is being abused because can be abused the because it can be abused and the system should one that system should be one that actually people like system should be one that actutviewers, people like system should be one that actutviewers, people eople like system should be one that actutviewers, people eopl

when became minister. when he became prime minister. and acting like one one and now he's acting like one one knows but has gone on knows life. but this has gone on for very long time. and for a very long time. and tonight people will start talking about the lavender list. people about people will start talking about the scandal, the cash for honours scandal, which blair, for which saw tony blair, for example, interviewed police. example, interviewed by police. so just gone on the so this is just gone on the interview police. i'm interview by the police. i'm sorry. so many interviews. please police as well. please by the police as well. and was cleared. it was and i was cleared. so it was tony. very, very many. was tony. very, very many. it was very many political scandals where of where people are accused of crimes. me were cleared crimes. tony of me were cleared by police. then if you by the police. but then if you are as a prime minister, are full of as a prime minister, if yourself getting if you find yourself getting interviewed potential interviewed for potential corruption surrounding honours, wouldn't press wouldn't that make you press pause is there pause and think is there something with system something amiss with the system generally you we generally? do you think we should push radical should push through radical reform? didn't do an reform? well, tony didn't do an honest list honest resignation on list himself, nor did gordon brown, actually. so i think labour prime ministers have now accepted you shouldn't do this and put it to one side. i would like go for a radical reform like you go for a radical reform to all the references to get rid of all the references to get rid of all the references to empire . no to get rid of all the references to empire. no obe no empire to empire. no obe is no empire medals. change it make medals. i'd change it and make it the order of the it make it in the order of the uk make a member of the

uk. make it be a member of the uk. make it be a member of the uk. you can make it like they have in australia or canada , but have in australia or canada, but remove all references to empire well way beyond the empire. now we should make it something that's more meritocratic . that's much more meritocratic. i've got stuff to say up to that point. just. i'm conscious point. just. i'm just conscious . to leave mark up . i don't want to leave mark up my well, my thoughts on reform. well, i think actually we've come a long way. recent there has way. in recent years, there has been a real concerted effort to make sure that when all of this have been pulled together and i know i was a special know this when i was a special adviser the department for adviser in the department for education, at from education, we look at it from all angles. we all different angles. are we trying represent regions? trying to represent the regions? so sure there's so we make sure there's a balance of people from different backgrounds, both in terms of class ethnicity and gender class and ethnicity and gender and we've come a long, and so on. we've come a long, long actually, for me, the long way. actually, for me, the answer to keep the honours answer isn't to keep the honours as elitist. i've been in the past. have more them. past. let's have more of them. let's let's share the love of celebrate. more different let's let's share the love of celefrom. more different let's let's share the love of celefrom different re different let's let's share the love of celefrom different background. pay from different background. and can't get upset and i can't really get upset about knighthood for about a potential knighthood for boris. actually boris. is that because actually he political but he had a political career, but when a representative out when he was a representative out in european community, in the european community, he's done campaigning and so done a lot of campaigning and so on. there's probably other

people that have had similar people that have had a similar honour i'm honour for doing less. i'm not going get quote about the going to get quote on about the hairdresser or something. come on, making that vaguely brings about. point about. but my point. my point is, more of them out. is, let's get more of them out. there's a and celebrate there's a more and celebrate more people. if the odd one more people. and if the odd one feels a bit it's so let's feels a bit weak, it's so let's not too upset about it. not get too upset about it. let's celebrate else. let's celebrate everyone else. and you all about, and what are you all about, john, you're saying about john, when you're saying about dropping the whole empire, surely for surely you don't mean for reasons or the british reasons of obe or the british empire. don't for empire. you don't mean for reasons like or reasons of like racism or anything like that. do you just mean. the british mean. i do, yeah. the british empire disgrace. awful empire was a disgrace. awful thing. shouldn't be thing. we shouldn't be celebrating in any way. no, mark, i. what? i struggle now is much than that. much more nuanced than that. there's have there's lots of people that have a different view about a very different view about the good the that the empire good and the bad that the empire did, actually deny our did, and to actually deny our history, not be history, i think, would not be helpful. now, there's a broader question it's question about whether it's worth some of the names worth changing some of the names and the honours. but not and the honours. but let's not just empire just say it's because the empire was bad. lots of different people, including many people whose family background comes from would from the empire, would have a very view that. very different view to that. this as black and white this is not as black and white as some people would make out. as far as i know, it was it was

it was a rapacious institution. it from it stole they stole from countries. it stole from people. it to countries and its it misery to countries and its legacy is i don't think legacy is racism. i don't think the empire, you can say the british empire, you can say it any anywhere . if we it did any good anywhere. if we if we'd had a world, the british empire, world would actually if we'd had a world, the british ema re, world would actually if we'd had a world, the british ema better world would actually if we'd had a world, the british ema better place. would actually if we'd had a world, the british ema better place. will.d actually if we'd had a world, the british ema better place. will you:tually be a better place. will you agree i would listen agree with her? i would listen to do reckon, to that. what do you reckon, a by the way, what about this whole people getting whole notion of people getting recognised the usa recognised honours in the usa for just doing job? what i for just doing that job? what i see an mp is being on some kind of honours list for services to the public. i literally think . the public. i literally think. but that's your job. your job might is what you are receiving. £8,000 a year plus all your expenses , the packs, by the way. expenses, the packs, by the way. but that is your job. and i find but that is yourjob. and i find it absolutely laughable. and also, by the way, quick caveat, if anyone's listening, i want to nominate me. i don't mind being a excuse. a hypocrite. excuse. yeah, i could be anything i'll be could be anything a day. i'll be any of it. quite frankly, i think there's a lot perks, isn't there? a lot of a lot of it probably gets you probably gets you reservations elite restaurants like . but i'm

restaurants you like. but i'm not sophisticated enough to go to a lady's lady dube's lady too. it's got a great ring to it, hasn't it. anyway, do you reckon this is which spoke highly of the final nail in the coffin for boris, is it, or is he basically the guy, the he just basically the guy, the cat was about ten. i didn't want to say non—life. he's got 112 lives. and incident i think lives. and this incident i think just provokes very just boris provokes a very strong amongst lot of strong response amongst a lot of people. so whenever there's people. and so whenever there's something news, something about him in the news, people the end of people react love at the end of the day, promises have the right to do a resignation on he's to do a resignation on as he's done his being looked over done his it's being looked over let's comes of the let's see what comes out of the wash end because there's wash at the end because there's still a process to go through as to which ones get signed off. will what people think will it change what people think about so. about him? i don't think so. i think it's all baked in now. think it's all baked in by now. rule britannia someone the rule britannia says someone the honour system should not be a kind exercise snowflake kind of exercise in snowflake parade. order of the british parade. the order of the british empire is fantastic. you've got to or reasons, to give me reason or reasons, plural. you think that i got plural. why you think that i got that off. tell you a lot of that one off. tell you a lot of people and it's not agreeing with you on that. you always divide opinion. do. mr. divide opinion. you do. mr. right. when you're on here,

right. and when you're on here, what else? so people saying people agreeing me. people are agreeing with me. yeah that's always nice. we like that. just about why should you get a knighthood? literally for doing your job. do you think this almost this honest conversation drives the conversation drives the conversation further reform of the house of lords ? yes, i think the house of lords? yes, i think it does, because it is you know, we're the only country in the world, apart from iran, who actually puts religious leaders and we have our bishops in the parliament, they've got their leaders of their religion. we're the only country in the world with a fully appointed second chamber and the only ones who are not appointed are not the bishops. they're actually the few hereditary. as i left , few hereditary. as i left, there's something odd about it. it is if, if, if privilege is anything, it is that kind of appointment, that kind of inheritance . but we do need we inheritance. but we do need we need to become need everyone to become meritocracy. got to tackle need everyone to become meri everywhere. got to tackle need everyone to become meri everywhere. yeah: to tackle need everyone to become meri everywhere. yeah well, ckle that everywhere. yeah well, do you get of the house of you just get rid of the house of lords? do you think it's a good thing? well, i think if it was

easy to do and there was an obvious thing we could set obvious new thing we could set up, we had done it. but now tony blair said he going to do blair said he was going to do it, looked at it. it's really hard. has had hard. lots of government has had since that they would since then that they would look at it. i mean, the other thing we got to look at is what we change and one the change into. and one of the brilliant things have brilliant things we have announced house of announced at the house of commons, people we could commons, the people we could do get vote there is no get to vote for, there is no doubt that what they is most doubt that what they say is most important. you start putting doubt that what they say is most iman tant. you start putting doubt that what they say is most iman electedyou start putting doubt that what they say is most iman elected house|rt putting doubt that what they say is most iman elected house of putting doubt that what they say is most iman elected house of lordsg doubt that what they say is most iman elected house of lords and in an elected house of lords and making the assembly. well, i mean, there's a whole of mean, there's a whole lot of pain with those as pain that comes with those as well. there's pros and cons, i think it's like all these things, democracy. it's things, it's democracy. it's like apart from like the worst system apart from all alternatives. all the alternatives. and i think it was easy to change think if it was easy to change the house rules, have done the house rules, we'd have done it. think we've to be it. and i think we've got to be very careful wish for if very careful what we wish for if we change well there you we do change it. well there you go. to be careful what go. you got to be careful what you for. do wish to you wish for. if you do wish to change house of lords, do change the house of lords, do you change it and if so, you want to change it and if so, into what and where? would into what and where? i would always the way, i move always say, by the way, i move some of these and get some of these houses and get a novel, that would be novel, something that would be great, i think, for democracy.

do agree? get in touch. let do you agree? get in touch. let me know your thoughts now, if you the you pay attention, even in the mildest you'll mildest way to politics, you'll be rishi sunak's five be aware of rishi sunak's five promises. and you will promises. everyone and you will know, therefore, one know, therefore, that one of them to stop. tell you, them was to stop. i tell you, stop small boat crossings stop this small boat crossings also reduce them or half them. it hard this one, he it went hard on this one, he said he's going said categorically. he's going to how is he going to to stop them. how is he going to do it? apparently plan do it? apparently a plan is about reveal about to break that will reveal all. it work? you tell all. but will it work? you tell me i'll see you .

in two. hello there. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company right through. so 7:00 this evening doing the same with me. keep me company is john mcternan , political mcternan, the political strategist former advisers strategist and a former advisers to tony blair and mark lehane, who was an adviser to nadhim zahawi now is the head of zahawi and now is the head of education at the centre for policy studies. good evening, gents . welcome everybody. gents. welcome back, everybody. we just talking about the we were just talking about the honours list and reform for the house of lords. in case you just

missed that , trevor, you a missed that, trevor, you are a man with and i like that man with a plan and i like that you've got three point plan to you've got a three point plan to reform said one, reform the lords. you said one, reduce of lords to reduce the number of lords to equal number of employees. equal the number of employees. number two, adopts one in one number two, adopts a one in one hour process. and number three have a term of occupancy. have a set term of occupancy. i like it and i like people. look back at what they're saying with a plan as opposed to just just dismissing the malcolm says as a holder of an mba awarded to me by tony blair, i find your guest obnoxious . it by tony blair, i find your guest obnoxious. it means you, he by tony blair, i find your guest obnoxious . it means you, he says obnoxious. it means you, he says . i got mine for services to the community and charity fundraising for over 40 years. to be fair, i don't think john would suggest that you shouldn't be recognised . i think john be recognised. i think john would push back from name . yeah. would push back from name. yeah. just in terms of the wording of it. their own, all it. but each of their own, all of you are welcome . and you know of you are welcome. and you know what, in a decent society we need to be able to agree to disagree that way boring disagree that way how boring life we all agreed. life would be. we all agreed. now i'll tell you something that we once all agree on, to we perhaps once all agree on, to put it mildly, is rishi sunak

little is plan is little idea is plan is commitment, should i say actually is to stop actually that is going to stop the boats. there's been the small boats. there's been lots of pontificating how lots of pontificating about how he's do that, it he's going to do that, what it would and all the rest would look like and all the rest of it. and apparently imminently, we're going to see this his answers. this plan with all his answers. now, mean that if you now, it would mean that if you cross channel and legally cross the channel and legally you face a lifetime ban you would face a lifetime ban from acquiring britain, british citizenship or from trying to re—enter the country . but most re—enter the country. but most sooner as these rumours being printed in the press, you guessed it, the criticism has gone crazy from various charities and all the rest of it. basically saying it's all inhumane. john mcternan , your inhumane. john mcternan, your thoughts? work for it thoughts? it won't work for it was being briefed as a risk he's going to pass a law that says if you come to the country illegally, you can't ever be a refugee or asylum seeker. this is the law he passed last year and the law he passed the year before. he can't do it. it's a it's a breach of british law as a breach of european convention on human rights. a breach of european convention on human rights . and it's on human rights. and it's physically it is physically

impossible to do it because it is almost impossible to return a large number of people who come to our country because the countries that they come from are to be returned to. are unsafe to be returned to. they because can't send they can't because we can't send somebody back to afghanistan. we can't people libya. can't send people back to libya. we send back to we can't send people back to syria. we can't send syria. we can't we can't send people back to france because we don't people back to france because we dont an people back to france because we don't an agreement with the don't have an agreement with the european returns. we european union on returns. we have country and a government have a country and a government which has broken its relations. the european union has just managed to sort them with the european union over the northern ireland, the windsor ireland, with the windsor framework but no framework. but there's no there's agreement for returns there's no agreement for returns with anybody in the european union. we that we left that union. we left that we left that process. the process. when we left the european every single european union. every single proper. this has been proper. and this has been created by government and it created by the government and it is also it is important to say 80% of people who apply for asylum in this country get asylum in this country get asylum . and there is currently asylum. and there is currently no legal route to get here. of course, people come illegally if there is no legal route, give them a legal route. they're all legal there. wrong. name one. there are. i can name a few

actually, because guess what, folks? actually prepared folks? i'm actually prepared tonight makes me ukrainian. tonight that makes me ukrainian. no it's a yes. ukraine. yes. well, don't you've asked me to name one. you call on yourself that you from ukrainian want. there are. yes there are. afghanistani still afghanistani ones still in pakistan lost the afghanistan people there are games . and people but there are games. and by when you say it's by the way, when you say it's syrians, when somalis, when syrians, when you somalis, when you say with a straight face, by the way, all this is the way, that all of this is caused this settlement, caused by this court settlement, and to about and then you talk to me about things afghanistan and all things like afghanistan and all the it. many will the rest of it. many people will be at their screens. be shouting at their screens. i can with getty can envisage you with getty shouting, said, shouting, everyone said, actually, there wasn't so much british foreign british involvement in foreign conflicts. places like iraq , conflicts. places like iraq, etc. under, for example , the etc. under, for example, the blair government. then you wouldn't have so many people trying flee their homelands trying to flee their homelands in the first place. afghanistan as we went to afghanistan in the 19th century, because britain there, because the british empire went to afghanistan, went to somaliland , went to syria, to somaliland, went to syria, went to iraq because of the empire , went there. we have empire, went there. we have refugees there . the empire refugees there. the empire caused this issue. i mean, i

don't even know we can say it was straight faced. i do want to come back on reports. i'm very conscious that mark so i'm conscious that mark is so i'm just to find it can just going to find it so can this plan i think this plan work? i don't think any of us know if it's going to work but i think we've work or not, but i think we've got everything we've got to throw everything we've got to throw everything we've got issue of the got at solving the issue of the small crossings for three small boats crossings for three reasons, now, small boats crossings for three reas nasty, now, small boats crossings for three reasnasty, evil now, small boats crossings for three reasnasty, evil people now, small boats crossings for three reasnasty, evil people smugglers the nasty, evil people smugglers are the money that are one make in the money that are one make in the money that are causing people to die. it's in hands of criminals, in the hands of the criminals, not government of not the sovereign government of the united kingdom. and elsewhere. government elsewhere. to the government have going elsewhere. to the government have this going elsewhere. to the government have this right going elsewhere. to the government have this right now going elsewhere. to the government have this right now they've oing to put this right now they've got it right and solve got to get it right and solve it, or they haven't got a hope in hell of getting the in hell of getting winning the next election. and thirdly, perhaps the most important reason get it reason why they've got to get it right this is of right is because this is one of the most tolerant, welcoming countries survey the most tolerant, welcoming countsurvey survey the most tolerant, welcoming countsurvey survey survey the most tolerant, welcoming countsurvey survey shows after survey after survey shows one we've had one incredible success we've had in country of welcoming in this country of welcoming people from around world people from all around the world and integrating people into into the i live in bedford. the country. i live in bedford. i've there 20 years. it's i've been there 20 years. it's one of welcoming, one of the most welcoming, diverse places find diverse places you can find these people all around these people from all around the world. came this world. but my nan came to this country small child. she country as a small child. she was into this country. country as a small child. she was the into this country. country as a small child. she was the only into this country. country as a small child. she was the only way:o this country. country as a small child. she was the only way we1is country. country as a small child. she was the only way we can ountry. country as a small child. she

was the only way we can keepy. and the only way we can keep people here happy people already living here happy and as and welcoming and as tolerant and welcoming towards as we have towards newcomers as we have been historically, is if we clampdown illegal clampdown on the illegal immigration feel immigration so that people feel that are being that the rules are being followed there's fair followed and that there's fair play followed and that there's fair play so we've got to play going on. so we've got to crack. it's not going to be easy.i crack. it's not going to be easy. i the need to easy. i do feel the need to mention the centre for policy studies , how work for released studies, how i work for released a report on a of a report on this a couple of months it's largely what months ago and it's largely what the appear the government appear to be following, with following, trying to deal with this we've to this problem. but we've got to put to get people put it right to get people following rules and give following the rules and give them the them safe routes into the country their eagerness country or into their eagerness to do it though because this a around them plan was apparently deemed december . deemed legal back in december. why wouldn't rishi sunak just go right to know what it's been deemed legal? i'm just going to send over there and i'll send a fly over there and i'll deal the consequences as deal with the consequences as and they care. and i think and when they care. and i think they've work through each they've got to work through each of cases that of the individual cases that they'd to send out they'd had lined up to send out at but the other thing to at that. but the other thing to bear is like governments bear in mind is like governments have their in have got to get their ducks in order before move on stuff. order before they move on stuff. so we've got this thing with northern know, northern ireland, you know, we've a that tick, we've got a deal that tick, okay, got five

okay, we've got the five promises they're working okay, we've got the five pr0|on es they're working okay, we've got the five pr0|on gettingthey're working okay, we've got the five pr0|on gettingthey're w down okay, we've got the five pr0|on gettingthey're wdown on on, on getting inflation down on take. moving take. now they're moving on to the small thing. they're the small boats thing. they're going order. now going to do things in order. now they've deliver. one they've got to deliver. it's one thing it another thing saying it and another thing saying it and another thing but let's thing delivering it. but let's at give them the chance to at least give them the chance to say what they're do say what they're going to do with this bill in parliament, see around see what the plan is around rwanda countries, rwanda and other countries, because them because there's talk of them lining trade lining up places on the trade routes and they see whether routes and then they see whether they can make it work. but they've to work for, they've got to make it work for, you legal and moral you know, legal and moral reasons. mean, you go about reasons. i mean, you go on about the empire, said we the empire, john, you said we had governments caused all had the governments caused all this. to this. and then when i say to you, well, on, but what you, well, hang on, but what about governments, you, well, hang on, but what abcexample, governments, you, well, hang on, but what abcexample, interferingiments, you, well, hang on, but what abcexample, interfering inents, for example, interfering in places afghanistan? places like iraq, afghanistan? then to no, that's then you say to me, no, that's to the but you to do with the empire. but you will i'm sure, that will concede, i'm sure, that the vast of you look vast majority of when you look at and who is at the nationality and who is this going to get on those boats? they're albanians. this going to get on those boats? 'no y're albanians. this going to get on those boats? 'no internationals. there's no international conflict that 80% of albanians who for asylum seeker who apply for asylum seeker status in this country get granted asylum. why because they get grant. it's a very tight risk because the home office , risk because the home office, they fit the fit the they fit the they fit the definition of refugees, asylum seekers that the home office

operate. the home office run by suella this home suella braverman this home office by priti patel, the office run by priti patel, the homeless theresa these homeless from theresa may these are softies and these their are not softies and these their staff terribly bad at staff are terribly bad at processing. they do five cases a month , but there's never because month, but there's never because the consent of the current albanian. yeah, i was going to say a trafficked to the only one of those people don't get the asylum claims process because there's such a big backlog that they don't even have their asylum do you asylum claims picked up. do you think even offer think that we should even offer asylum a safe asylum to people from a safe country? have an agreement country? we have an agreement with albania for returns of those who don't who don't go , those who don't who don't go, who don't get granted refugee says that's one country which we haven't agreed think haven't agreed with. i think that the returns that returned the returns agreements are important . they agreements are important. they depend on trust between our country, our government and other countries. but you can't have returns. agree with libya. you can't return as agreement with afghanistan. you can't return as a group with syria because war torn state because of the war torn state that can't have returns that you can't have returns to go somaliland. so go with somaliland. so therefore, returns , the therefore, with the returns, the policy doesn't you know, there's

not safe countries to return people to. and we can't return people to. and we can't return people could people to france. we could process people france if we process people in france if we had agreement and then leave had an agreement and then leave them france . if they don't them in france. if they don't get if we do all these conflict zones, like the ones that you mentioned, any decent mentioned, because any decent person challenge person and i would challenge anyone you're your d some anyone and if you're your d some person want to see person you don't want to see people and suffer. so people struggle and suffer. so when you talk about people in afghanistan, all the rest of it, every body that decent every body that sane decent would want those people to be safe and well bought. in france, every one of its every single one of its interpreters out in, translators out and his staff out there supported in the months before the fall of kabul and the british government tried to scramble after the fall of kabul scramble after the fall of kabul. it's the incompetence as well as heartlessness of well as the heartlessness of this government the this government, which is the which is heartbreaking, which is which is heartbreaking, actually. yeah so i mean, by the way, we talk about 70 groups at ukraine's game was mentioned the afghan relocation settlement schemes example do schemes for example we do process people at home but in congo as well . loads of from congo as well. loads of aid from hong a recent yeah we're a hong kong. a recent yeah we're a decent but people

decent nation but what people don't like john by the way, don't like john and by the way, when to you, the when i said this to you, the other was saying to other day, i was saying to you about people put in about people being put up in foster told me that foster hotels. you told me that you think people you didn't even think people were not forced out. yes, they are hotels. and are full star hotels. and i don't you can think don't know how you can think that know people can't that they know and people can't be welcoming. you see the be welcoming. when you see the pictures picketing pictures of people picketing a hotel in kibworth in leicestershire just leicestershire that is just disgraceful. but why? but why? i'm they're i'm telling you, they're in four star you're telling star hotels and you're telling me they're why? that me that they're not. why? that they're but because they're they're not. but because they're just. they're the just. they're just in the cheapest that's just. they're just in the che cheapest that's just. they're just in the che cheapest accommodation. t's just. they're just in the che cheapest accommodation. they just. they're just in the che chefound accommodation. they just. they're just in the che chefound by ommodation. they just. they're just in the che chefound by the nodation. they just. they're just in the che chefound by the home)n. they just. they're just in the che chefound by the home office.y can be found by the home office. they no. go around they know almost no. go around respectfully , mean to be respectfully, i don't mean to be rude you're a bit rude which you're a little bit out of because started out of date because we started that way you started putting people the cheap and cheerful people in the cheap and cheerful places. very places. all of those very quickly got quickly filled up. you've got about people that's about 45, 48,000 people that's cheap cheerful . places are cheap and cheerful. places are long are now up to four long gone. we are now up to four star hotels. people are getting their wedding venues cancelled. there's one like literally 5 minutes away from where my family live that's very well reported in the press . beautiful reported in the press. beautiful view of the humber four star hotel has now been hotel that has now been requisitioned the requisitioned by the home office. there learnt one time

office. there i learnt one time for amnesty, then what? you for an amnesty, then what? you mean an amnesty? just on just grant asylum status , refugee grant asylum status, refugee status to everybody who's here and . so anyway, and applying. so anyway, clear the clear the backlog. now the bus, clear the backlog. now is what boris johnson actually said would do when he was said he would do when he was mayor of london. he said there should honest we the should be an honest we know the problem do go problem with you if you do go down amnesty, people down the amnesty, then people just green more just that's a green light. more people to act as a green light to come to the country through illegal assumption illegal routes on the assumption then another amnesty illegal routes on the assumption then down another amnesty illegal routes on the assumption then down eline. er amnesty illegal routes on the assumption then down eline. it'smnesty further down the line. it's a really route go. really dangerous route to go. it's really hard to it's a really hard thing to crack had been crack because if it had been easy to crack, like the house of lords, we would done it lords, we would have done it before but it's really before now. but it's really good. government before now. but it's really good.made government before now. but it's really good.made this government before now. but it's really good.made this such ernment before now. but it's really good.made this such a nment before now. but it's really good.made this such a high1t have made this such a high priority. they've priority. you remember they've got promises, they've got these five promises, they've made about it. made a big fuss about it. they're have to get to they're going to have to get to it. the prime it. we know that the prime minister is someone who likes to get the details the get into the details of the policy. see they come policy. let's see what they come out let's let's out with and let's see, let's hope they deliver on hope that they can deliver on it. john button it. an amnesty. john button says, them all an says, just give them all an amnesty. i mean, if that wouldn't be a factor to the wouldn't be a pull factor to the uk, what? you uk, guess what? first you can just birth type move by just get on a birth type move by february, can you quite

february, but can you are quite frankly can find itself in a four star hotel four host four star hotel and pubs uncle main don't pubs are uncle your main don't by the way he says 8% of people i was just talking the i was just talking about the albanians claims albanians get their claims approved that approved i'm saying how can that be backlog. be because of the backlog. just to in 12 months to to be clear in the 12 months to september 20, 22, 85% of albanians who arrive by the small asylum small boat submitted asylum applications, but only 50 of them, point 7, them, which is nought point 7, have an initial have received an initial decision of them decision and none of them were granted refugee no. granted refugee status or no. that type of leave to remain like . by the way, it lets not like. by the way, it lets not forget that many of the people that do come over and try and get asylum claims are indeed lone men. if you're that in dangen lone men. if you're that in danger, why don't you take your wife, your sister's and your kids with you? i know . you kids with you? i don't know. you tell me. get in touch. gb views that gbnews.uk is my email address. going to have address. i'm going to have a quick come back. oh quick break when i come back. oh i can tell you, you guys are set in my inbox on fire, so i'll have some of your reactions. and i'm also going to be asking you, do reckon government do you reckon the government should clamp down on the gambling industry even .

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry keeping you company right through till 7:00 tonight. john mactan and the political strategist and former advisor to tony blair keeps me company as does mike lehane, former advisor to the nadhim zahawi and now the head of education for the centre for policy studies. if you've just joined us, missed just joined us, you've missed out us talking out. you just missed us talking about rishi sunak circles , about rishi sunak circles, mobius planned, john mcternan was suggesting that we should just have an amnesty. now we've got all these people for and what, 45, got all these people for and what, 45, 48,000 got all these people for and what, 45, 48,000 last year alone just messing or like just in hotel walls he was saying giving amnesty and guess what? in the break, everyone, we continue our conversation. and john came up with another gem. he was saying that we should give asylum seekers how much seekers more money. how much would you have us give them? they should have at least the asylum seekers with tourist of asylum seekers with a tourist of at as much in

at least as much in cash benefits british people have benefits as british people have . our welfare . because we are our welfare system is to keep you out of poverty, keep your children out of poverty. they actually of poverty. they would actually help businesses around help the local businesses around areas people people help the local businesses around are'kept people people help the local businesses around are'kept residentle people help the local businesses around are'kept resident because eople help the local businesses around are'kept resident because then are kept resident because then they'd spend more they'd be able to spend more money the shops. yeah, well, money in the shops. yeah, well, faster than most people at home. the not bring kids anyway the do not bring the kids anyway so all these loan guys so would you all these loan guys that be the majority that do seem to be the majority would give extra money would you give them extra money or i give them the same benefits that single men get. i'll give families same benefits. you families the same benefits. you would. benefits the would. so the benefits the british pay via british citizens pay into via their taxi and therefore their taxi fees and therefore get us, for example, child benefit, whatever you would replicate so that replicate that. so anyone that gets on the boat don't know they are, at are, quite frankly, because at that took their idea that time they took their idea away. anyway, you would give away. but anyway, you would give them you? be honest, them that, do you? to be honest, i'd actually let those people who applying for asylum, i'd who are applying for asylum, i'd let work they're let them work while they're applying so therefore applying for that. so therefore they pay taxes. it they can actually pay taxes. it wouldn't be wouldn't be dependent welfare dependent on welfare benefits. there'd be actually very interesting to you interesting question to you because i do need to move on to the next subject. do you not think that this will increase

the pull factor, an incentive is even people to cross those even more people to cross those boats across the boats in those across the channel the small the channel in the small boat, the biggest the thing that biggest pool find the thing that mark and that you agreed mark said and that you agreed with i agree with, which is with and i agree with, which is that a great that this this is a great country. it's a great country with economy. with a great economy. it's a great country great people great country with great people who welcoming. think who are welcoming. i think we have huge in our labour have huge gaps in our labour market, huge gaps forjobs at all and should be all levels. and we should be welcoming who've got welcoming the people who've got the initiative and drive to the initiative and the drive to come britain through legal come to britain through legal means. that's why people come to britain through legal meaiabsolutely t's why people come to britain through legal meaiabsolutely through)eople come to britain through legal meaiabsolutely through legals pay. absolutely through legal means, people pay their means, so people can pay their way. as you said, way. and it's and as you said, michel, worry be if we michel, my worry would be if we were to give people more were to give people even more money, don't give the money, if we don't give the asylum money get asylum seekers much money to get by. get it's tough, but by. and i get it's tough, but relative to what people have often home often back in their home countries, if we get them even more money with generous more money with our generous benefit then that with benefit system, then that with the to this would the draw to this country would be greater there'll be be even greater and there'll be even wanted come even more. people wanted to come here standard, and my here on this standard, and my worry it would undermine the worry is it would undermine the support our support people have for our asylum immigration system. asylum and immigration system. and think this and sometimes i think this wales is obviously views is command obviously all views are valid on dewbs& co, but to

me you've got to reduce the pull factors somebody's factors or else all somebody's going these boats. and going to get on these boats. and by the way, you remember back in 2004, it was it 2004, i think it was when it came the eu expansion came to the eu expansion eastward, uk opened its eastward, the uk opened its labour market, if you like, to for example, polish which for example, the polish which did really but lower the did nothing really but lower the wages whilst wages in this country whilst other in the eu, other countries in the eu, for example, they put example, germany, they put controls allow controls in that didn't allow that for years and that to happen for years and years. come on, i could years. anyway, come on, i could do this all night long. but time flies doesn't it, when you're having your having fun? give me your thoughts, move on. thoughts, but let's move on. let's about gambling. let's talk about gambling. apparently is apparently the government is going a white going to publish a new white paper saying it's going to regulate the industry, even more. about more. i could talk to you about it i talked to it for ages, but i talked to a lot about magazine and push the times or so. do we need more regulation when it comes to gambling? think we probably gambling? i think we probably do. of the things do. i mean, one of the things that's blown my mind in that's really blown my mind in recent is be seen the recent years is to be seen the proliferation advertising proliferation of advertising for, gambling your for, you know, gambling on your phone adults, how they phone and like adults, how they want their own money want to spend their own money and spend their time is their own but there comes own business. but there comes a point you've to worry point when you've got to worry about amount of money and

about the amount of money and the addiction with the addiction that goes with that the flipside, that stuff. on the flipside, it's hugely profitable it's a hugely profitable industry. regulate industry. if we regulate it too much, other ways to much, people find other ways to do anyway and then those do it anyway and then those businesses sales. businesses will buy some sales. that's and we won't be able to tax the profits on that. this is the we do to support the the way we do to support the pubuc the way we do to support the public over here. so the way we do to support the pub a: over here. so the way we do to support the pub a little over here. so the way we do to support the puba little bit over here. so the way we do to support the puba little bit torn, here. so the way we do to support the puba little bit torn, bute. so the way we do to support the puba little bit torn, but it's» i'm a little bit torn, but it's not something that really appeals to me. and i think anything stops people anything that stops people getting that cycle of getting stuck in that cycle of despair gambling despair and that gambling addiction can bring is probably addiction can bring is probably a thing. some of this is a good thing. some of this is the of the nanny the worst of the nanny state, isn't the puritanism isn't it? the new puritanism people gambling. let's people enjoy gambling. let's stop fun. that's stop them having fun. that's actually this new actually what's behind this new push. coke a push. and the coke category a problem . gambling has been problem. gambling has been invented by the do gooders who want to regulate gambling. yes, some people get addicts to gambling. people get gambling. some people get addicted . some people gambling. some people get add addicted . some people gambling. some people get add addicted to . some people gambling. some people get add addicted to things ome people gambling. some people get add addicted to things .me people gambling. some people get add addicted to things . you3eople get addicted to things. you don't regulate an entire entertainment industry because of the addicted people. we don't even you know, we don't ban cigarettes. we regulate them. and this this is just an attempt to people what they do to tell people what they can do in time with their own in their own time with their own money. think it is

money. and i think it is terrible this government should think even more think of introducing even more regulatory am regulatory constraints. am agrees you, he says. stop agrees with you, he says. stop trying nanny absolutely trying to nanny absolutely everything. let gamblers choose what they do without interference, must use, says michelle. as a mortgage michelle. i work as a mortgage adviser and the amount of gambling people's gambling showing on people's bank horrid . and bank statements is horrid. and as some cases, it stops as in some cases, it stops customers obtaining a mortgage . customers obtaining a mortgage. it definitely an industry it is definitely an industry that needs regulation. that needs more regulation. chris says. michel government does need to further regulate gambling . he don't know because gambling. he don't know because he or she. but i'll just go with he or she. but i'll just go with he has, i don't know. anyway, you said that you had a problem with the national lottery and one of your care workers , you one of your care workers, you said actually offered you a lottery ticket and you said you regret it to this day. it changed your life for the worse. looking you should have looking back, you should have said no. and you say accepting that ticket was the that first ticket was the biggest mistake of your life . biggest mistake of your life. that makes me quite sad, actually . and i hope whatever actually. and i hope whatever your current situation is, i hope that you are getting support with that, because i do think there are lots of organisations right now that are available. do you think the

gambling itself take gambling industry itself take regulation out of it? do you think be think there perhaps could be more response ? the ball like do more response? the ball like do you think, for example, you should companies should of gambling companies advertising ? i know say advertising? i don't know say like it's football or like whether it's football or whatever i think they could whatever and i think they could be an awful lot more to be doing an awful lot more to regulate themselves to make sure that stuff they're doing that the stuff they're doing isn't people take isn't encouraging people to take risk, because risk, that they can't, because that's journalism is that's the point. journalism is when spending when people start spending money, can't afford or money, they can't afford or when it starts. they don't they it starts. so they don't they know have free will know longer have free will because addicted to it because they're addicted to it is how you do this? anything is how do you do this? anything that can in that these companies can do in order people more safe order to give people more safe spaces there options spaces whilst there or options to or cool down and to calm down or cool down and think they the next think before they put the next bit of money on that think bit of money on that i think isn't bad thing. we don't want isn't a bad thing. we don't want the nanny state. what we do want is products that give people the chance on how much chance to reflect on how much money spend and whether money they spend and whether they've that they've gone beyond that. that means, final word or means, yeah, to a final word or not. i think think we not. look, i think i think we have trust people more than have to trust people more than we do moment. and this we do at the moment. and this sounds like government sounds like the government is not time they're going not one more time they're going to go, we don't trust you to use

your own money, do you think addiction very quickly a an addiction very quickly is a an illness? i think it's a illness? yeah, i think it's a real if you are real thing. yeah. if you are struggling, the way, because real thing. yeah. if you are s knowing, the way, because real thing. yeah. if you are s know a g, the way, because real thing. yeah. if you are s know a lot the way, because real thing. yeah. if you are s know a lot of he way, because real thing. yeah. if you are s know a lot of people because real thing. yeah. if you are s know a lot of people do cause real thing. yeah. if you are sknow a lot of people do ande real thing. yeah. if you are sknow a lot of people do and i i know a lot of people do and i think there's of shame think there's a lot of shame with admitting it. but if you are struggling honestly, there are struggling honestly, there are and people at are so many places and people at non—judgmental do non—judgmental that do offer help. simple google help. a simple google search will of results will turn out lots of results for so if you're for you. so if you're struggling, don't suffer in silence. get some help and change the better. change your life for the better. i'm to take a break i'm going to take a quick break when i back, are you one of when i come back, are you one of the people think enough time the people who think enough time for political party, what for you political party, if what you to do, what's you want them to do, what's wrong with the ones we've got so you into .

it hello. welcome back to dewbs & co with me michelle dewberry. i'm giving you a comprehensive 7:00 tonight. john ten was political strategist and former adviser to tony blair and mark latham lehane. it was an adviser

to nadhim zahawi and is now the head of education at the centre for policy studies. and if you call i was laughing then that was just because someone in my life just message to say life has just message to say that remind of her friends that i remind her of her friends in and beverly. i'll take in hall and beverly. i'll take the but the beverly the whole bit. but the beverly back? sure on lines is a bit back? not sure on lines is a bit posh in the hope. whole beverly rivalry again isn't. yeah, it's a bit posh at but a little bit posh at last, but if you think i'm aligned that if you think i'm aligned so that i'll one not right. i'll take it one not right. let's on to think we let's move on to you. think we need a new political party? if you got enough of the tories and labour well as new barometer labour as well as new barometer that's and i have that's been published and i have to the levels pessimism to say the levels of pessimism about british politics is sky high . is it time then? john high. is it time then? john mcternan for douglas cole party it's definitely time for a new government and that's why two of a half, every voter or half of the voters, 50% of voters are actually choosing to back. keir starmer new political parties they can never break through in our system, our two party system, the brexit party didn't

win a seat in parliament. it did change the country. it did win the referendum and it did change the referendum and it did change the tory party the sdp never replaced labour , they did change replaced labour, they did change the labour party. so i think a good , a good third party change good, a good third party change is one that means when you see the brexit party didn't when you mean for example ukip. the brexit party didn't when you mean for example ukip . yeah, mean for example ukip. yeah, because in 2015 they got nearly 4 million votes and they should have had i think was about 80 seats or something. if you have proportional represent and so the voters are there, it's the system that fails them. well the system that fails them. well the system for i'm i'm against proportional representation. i'm in favour of the thing that gives you a strong government, a majority for a strong government. and if you know, if you've got a programme like tony had or a program like that, you had or a program like that, you had programme i like keir had a programme i like keir starmer have can use starmer will have you can use a majority, you've got a programme, programme like majority, you've got a progr'johnson programme like majority, you've got a progr'johnson andygramme like majority, you've got a progr'johnson and your|me like majority, you've got a progr'johnson and your drift.ike majority, you've got a progr'johnson and your drift for boris johnson and your drift for that. don't think pr would that. i don't think pr would be a great i would mean it a great thing. i would mean it would majority to centrist would mean majority to centrist governments until the end of history . and i'm not a centrist.

history. and i'm not a centrist. you know, tony was a radical. margaret thatcher was a radical. if need radical change in the if we need radical change in the country, we need to have a strong party system. i mean, strong two party system. i mean, i'm not surprised if lots of voters right now are looking for an alternative. i've interested to whether this two to know whether whether this two in is any in three statistic is any different. it's different. that's how it's always and again, i'm always been. and then again, i'm not these two or three not sure that these two or three britons a party or want britons want a new party or want the same kind of party. i think there's a lot of there's probably a lot of diversity and there's some people want something that's more want more left wing. some will want something but something more rightwing, but actually necessarily actually we don't necessarily need, we don't need, as has hinted, we don't need, as has hinted, we don't need a new party to break through and win loads of seats in to the country in order to change the country like party. like the brexit party. absolutely changed the game in 2019. the logjam and 2019. it broke the logjam and enabled brexit on even enabled us to get brexit on even though didn't he though they didn't win. and he sees i think the big paper sees and i think the big paper on party will be very on the brexit party will be very proud of that. as john said, the other parties haven't other parties that haven't had lots seats themselves have lots of seats themselves have made difference. had to made a difference. we had to hold whole load of new parties hold a whole load of new parties back 19 anyway. i can't back in 2018 19 anyway. i can't remember names and remember any of their names and that a big change. was it that was a big change. uk was it or independent, independent

or the independent, independent group i'm not sure that group and i'm not sure that i had an impact. get that great photo shoot the bottom of the staircase. i guess another one of you on the one of your pizza and i don't think any of them are now, so i'm are campaigns now, so i'm not sure through but sure they did cut through but there a sweet spot this there is a sweet spot in this country around, know, sort country around, you know, sort of economics that's more traditional left wing and that culturally more wing. culturally is more right wing. that sweet spot that the that was the sweet spot that the conservatives in 2019. conservatives had in 2019. you know, walk around new know, when i was walk around new cost the 2019 you cost in the 2019 election, you would the support in would not believe the support in parts city that parts of the city that traditionally voted for labour. they loved boris johnson. they hated there is hated jeremy corbyn. there is a sweet spot there. it's just it's hard to find it. and the sweet spot changes all time. yeah. spot changes all the time. yeah. one of the things i don't like about is about british politics is a sense self entitlement, of sense of self entitlement, of the major parties. and think the major parties. and i think actually look at actually when you look at turnout , i it's quite turnout, i think it's quite shameful. actually, i was in shameful. actually, if i was in politics and i looked at turnout, particularly for things like a bit like local elections up a bit embarrassed so embarrassed really because so many country, they saw many of our country, they saw disengaged can't be disengaged that they can't be bothered out. what if bothered to turn out. what if you pie? it would have

you had pie? yes, it would have its faults, but at least you would have a system that perhaps represents so represents people at home so that feel, well, i can that they do feel, well, i can go out and i vote and i can go out and i can vote and i can make a difference. well, i have compulsory voting in compulsory voting like in australia. that how australia. i think that how would vote? would you get me to vote? because i might not vote next time. so what would you do? well, you'd get if you were in australia, you'd fined and australia, you'd get fined and you get fined. it's not you get, you get fined. it's not a large of money, but a large amount of money, but it's make it's enough to make a difference. but it's 1800 difference. but it's all 1800 dollars, these people dollars, all of these people that disengaged for no other that are disengaged for no other reason the absolute reason than the absolute weakness failure weakness and failure of the current politicians. you would then the people. so then turn that on the people. so probably lot people in probably a lot of the people in the demographic as well. the poorer demographic as well. and would put feelings and you would put your feelings as politician onto them. as a politician onto them. compulsory, compulsory voting means you get the best means you get you get the best ever opinion poll of the country and you get all the people to, oh, you just get the best collection genitalia on collection of genitalia drawn on sheets of paper that country sheets of paper that the country is seen because the is ever seen because the sporting if you fought, sporting bodies, if you fought, match and made me go, i'll match me and made me go, i'll tell now, i wouldn't vote. tell you now, i wouldn't vote. right. worded thing, right. strongly worded thing, but voting. but anyway, compulsory voting. do agree with that or

do you agree with that or not? that's actually, that's a good topic. actually, i might and do a proper might take that and do a proper debate on that on another day. can say sorry and labour have had bring it on a new had that they bring it on a new party would he wants to party would be what he wants to see. is talking about see. philips is talking about stopping the boats . he says this stopping the boats. he says this government has no chance really of ever clamping down or stopping it. we shall see because soon it will be judged on that. i reckon. will it be effective or not? john, so many people , i got to say at the door people, i got to say at the door share vision when it comes share your vision when it comes to amnesties for benefit cuts and more benefits . yeah, on the and more benefits. yeah, on the minority, i have to say. but let me ask you this , because dewbs& me ask you this, because dewbs& co is about respectful disagreement. i think you talk things that i don't agree with , things that i don't agree with, boss. i like respectful debate and i would appeal to you at home to do the same as well. if you disagree with what you're here, let's have constructive criticism, debate , criticism, constructive debate, abuse. i don't really think that helps anybody it comes to helps anybody when it comes to bofis helps anybody when it comes to boris johnson's father, murray says, come on, michel, pack it in. who wouldn't give their father an honour ? i don't know.

father an honour? i don't know. my father an honour? i don't know. my is , quite frankly. so you my dad is, quite frankly. so you wouldn't getting all that wouldn't be getting all that from me. but i hear your point. i guess you're saying there i guess what you're saying there is would help is everyone would try and help them their family if they them boost their family if they could. touch could. john has been in touch saying was david cameron who saying it was david cameron who put his wife's hairdresser or papa.i put his wife's hairdresser or papa. i thought was some papa. i thought there was some with hairdressing. i would have got you are got that wrong. many of you are saying, to put it blindly. you don't think rishi sunak will achieve anything at all with the small boats as depressed, isn't it? anyway, that's all we've got time for. thank you, chaps , very time for. thank you, chaps, very much for your company. thank you. at home for yours. people who still write about all your stuff. but i'll keep those debates for another day. have a good night. not go anyway. good night. do not go anyway. nigel is up next. and by nigel farage is up next. and by the way, you've got patrick christys is in for dan wootton tonight as well. a treat. tonight as well. what a treat. what a treat. double patrick. a double patrick. that sounds like a film . and you might get that a film. and you might get that in ireland or something. a double. patrick i like one of those and i would make it a double. have a good night. don't

go anywhere. i'll see you tomorrow. hello there. i'm greg tomorrow. hello there. i'm greg to her. welcome to the latest broadcast met office. broadcast from the met office. it stays on the cold side over the few days. the risk of the coming few days. the risk of snow and widely frosts snow and ice widely frosts overnight as well . looking at overnight as well. looking at the bigger picture, arctic air plunging south across the uk, bringing snow showers to many northern areas across the south. we will see some weather fronts bringing of rain bringing some outbreaks of rain , snow. at times, , sleet and some snow. at times, too over next few days. too, over the next few days. a lot to play for the details lot to play for with the details to tuned to the full cast to stay tuned to the full cast turning icy as we head into the early hours tonight. fergus early hours of tonight. fergus no northern ireland. no showers for northern ireland. scotland cloudier across central parts of england, wales and southern england where we will see some outbreaks of rain, sleet metservice sleet and snow. metservice warnings and ice cover warnings for snow and ice cover quite large parts of the uk to take us into tuesday morning. temperatures starting well below freezing across scotland. northern england, northern ireland, from the ireland, snow showers from the word here, but plenty of word go here, but plenty of sunny cloudy skies sunny spells to cloudy skies across parts of the midlands. seven wales outbreaks of rain for seven counties of england,

with some sleet and snow mixed in to some slushy in there to some slushy accumulations possible . lots of accumulations possible. lots of places seeing sunshine in afternoon tuesday, very afternoon on tuesday, but very cold temperatures below average, 3 to 5 celsius generally . some 3 to 5 celsius generally. some places scotland staying below places in scotland staying below freezing all day . further icy freezing all day. further icy stretches possible quite widely as we move into tuesday evening and overnight, further snow showers for northern scotland. temperatures plummeting well below freezing fever. weather systems moving into southern parts england as well. some parts of england as well. some uncertainty placement of uncertainty of the placement of this, could lead to some this, but could lead to some accumulating snow across the high ground here. so do stay tuned to forecast. warnings tuned to the forecast. warnings already across already in force across southwest take us into southwest england. take us into wednesday here so quite wednesday here so stays quite grey. the risk of some rain, sleet and snow across seven counties england. counties of england. but elsewhere wednesday, looking like sunny day. plenty like a cold, sunny day. plenty of sunny spells . still the risk of sunny spells. still the risk of sunny spells. still the risk of a few snow showers across northern eastern scotland northern and eastern scotland down north—east england. so down into north—east england. so cold, few days to come. temperatures is generally below average for time of year. average for this time of year. widespread frosts and ice to take see you again .

soon come to britain illegally and you will not be allowed to stay and banned for life. that's the message from the government. but will it actually work? we have an exclusive interview with steve bannon not being seen on british tv for some time. we'll talk about the lockdown files . talk about the lockdown files. what does it mean for future pandemic acts? and joining me on talk in pints, derek redmond. he rather well known former sprinter . all of that and much sprinter. all of that and much more after the news with polly middlehurst .