we've just been hearing from our prime minister that rishi sunak asked a question by our very own tom harwood , and he was asking tom harwood, and he was asking him, is there a plan b if this basically doesn't fly with the lawyers? the short answer to that was no. what do you make to all is this the answer all then? is this the answer that you've been waiting for that if you've been waiting for it is finally going to give you the solution? or is it all air? perhaps just a little bit of a ploy perhaps just a little bit of a ploy kick can further ploy to kick the can further down road? so the tories can down the road? so the tories can use that leverage at the next use that as leverage at the next election. thoughts, please. and energy through the roof. energy bills through the roof. yes, we know that by now , but yes, we know that by now, but what the long term answer? is

what is the long term answer? is it time for the country's government to take back control of the energy companies, nationalise it ? of the energy companies, nationalise it? your of the energy companies, nationalise it ? your thoughts? nationalise it? your thoughts? i'm a little bit dubious , to say i'm a little bit dubious, to say the least. and the police are coming in for criticism yet again today. did you see that horrific crash at the weekend where young people, very sadly found themselves laying next to their friends? that passed away 48 hours. it took for them to be found . do you trust the police ? found. do you trust the police? do you think they're doing a good job? do you think that they have their priorities right? would you like to be a policeman or woman at this time? do they get an unfair kicking and get this everyone ? the uk is this everyone? the uk is apparently one of the most socially liberal countries in the world. fantasy state is it? you tell me what i've all of that to come. but first, let's bnng that to come. but first, let's bring ourselves up to speed with tonight. let's is that lions with polly middlehurst .

with polly middlehurst. michelle, thanks very much indeed. and our top story today on gb news. the prime minister has addressed potential migrants to the uk by saying if you come here illegally , you can't claim here illegally, you can't claim asylum or stay in the uk . rishi asylum or stay in the uk. rishi sunak says the government should be the one who decides who should enter the country, not the criminal gangs. he says the uk's asylum system can be exploited and warned the situation will get worse and worse if no action is taken. earlier in the commons , the home earlier in the commons, the home secretary suella braverman outlined details of the new illegal migration bill which would remove and ban people who enter the uk illegally. people must know that if they come here illegally it will result in their detention and swift removal . once this happens and removal. once this happens and they know it will happen, they will not come and the boats will stop. that is why today we are

introducing legislation to make clear that if you come here illegally , you can't claim illegally, you can't claim asylum , you can't benefit from asylum, you can't benefit from our modern slavery protections. you can't make spurious human rights claims and you can't stay . graham brady , chairman of the . graham brady, chairman of the 1922 committee, has said that he'll stand down at the next election. so sir graham brady, who has been a conservative mp for altrincham and sale west since 1997, said in a statement representing my home town in the house of commons has been an immense privilege for which i will always be grateful. he promised to continue campaign locally and nationally for the return of a conservative government. now the trial of the man accused of murdering olivia corbell has been told she was shot after running downstairs to her mother because she was scared. nine year old olivia died after a gunman fired into her home in liverpool last

august . manchester crown court august. manchester crown court heard the defend thomas cashman had been lying in wait for his intended target on the evening of the shooting. he denies murder . the of the shooting. he denies murder. the gender pay gap in the uk has widened with men now paid 14.4, more than women. the accountancy firm pwc report puts the increased down to a sharp rise in childcare costs, which is priced many women out of the workplace altogether. and it's warned the rate the pay gap is closing . it'll now take more closing. it'll now take more than 50 years to reach gender pay than 50 years to reach gender pay parity . thousands of uk pay parity. thousands of uk travellers have been hit by the disruption caused by general strike in france. dozens of flights and trains had to be cancelled today. ferries have also been delayed. french workers are walking out in protest at president macron's plan to raise the pension age from 62 to 64. and here, cancer search uk estimates around 75,000 gp appointments would be

freed up every month if people stop smoking in england . the stop smoking in england. the charity says smoking remains the biggest cause of cancer related deaths and is urging the government to do more to prevent young people from picking up the habit to and help current smokers quit . but simon clarke, smokers quit. but simon clarke, who's director of the smokers group forest , asked where the group forest, asked where the line would be drawn. smoking related issues tend to be multifactorial . in other words, multifactorial. in other words, they could be caused by a whole range of issues that may have nothing whatsoever to do with their smoking. i mean, there's obviously another group of people of which i'm a member, which are people who are obese. so is the next step going to be to try and end the obesity so that we save our lives, more appointments . parts of northern appointments. parts of northern england. in scotland have been hit by a freak sudden cold snap. the temperatures forecast to drop to —50 and in some regions , more than four inches of snow

have fallen in northern scotland and around eight inches are forecast for later this week. a yellow weather warning for snow andice yellow weather warning for snow and ice remains in place for much of the uk with tonight expected to be the coldest night of the year so far. expected to be the coldest night of the year so far . and lastly, of the year so far. and lastly, the king and queen consort have beenin the king and queen consort have been in colchester today to celebrate its new city status. it was awarded the title during the queen's platinum jubilee celebrations last year. the couple visited the city zoo and castle, as well as colchester library, where they joined charities age uk and the silver line for tea with local volunteers . you're up to date on volunteers. you're up to date on tv online and the 80 plus radio. this is gb news. back now to dewbs& co . dewbs& co. thanks for that, polly. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company till

7:00 tonight alongside me. i've got james schneider, the co—founder of momentum fm and a former adviser to jeremy corbyn, and also martin daubney, the former brexit party mep. good evening, gentlemen. thank you very much for joining evening, gentlemen. thank you very much forjoining us. you know the drill that you want, dewbs& co it's not just about here. it's very much about you guys at home. what's on your mind tonight ? i suspect i might mind tonight? i suspect i might be able to get that nonetheless. told me anyway. gb views arts gbnews.uk. as always is my email address or twitter. if that's your thing, you can get me there at gb news or at michelle jude's. now at there's one main story literally leading the front pages today. it is this one big fat no entry sign. if you are listening, not watching thatis you are listening, not watching that is on the front of the sun . it refers, of course, to today finally being the day that you get the detail behind the so—called plan to stop the boats , the small boat crossings. i have to say, though, there's

been lots of to and fro ing, lots of debate, as you would always expect on this kind of thing, and also lots of criticism in a nutshell . criticism in a nutshell. basically, it's the new laws which would see people that have arrived illegally banned from claiming asylum . it's illegal claiming asylum. it's illegal cap on refugee numbers . and cap on refugee numbers. and there'd be a legal duty on the home secretary to deport them as soon as possible. there's also lots of other angles to this, such as where would people be detained? the talk of buying former military bases , etc. former military bases, etc. martin daubney i'll kick off with you. your thoughts, please. but when i initially heard this, i thought , as we've had previous i thought, as we've had previous times before , how to get into times before, how to get into the void on the white cliffs of doven the void on the white cliffs of dover. tough talk , but i thought dover. tough talk, but i thought that there are about as likely to stop the as king canute to stop the boats as king canute could the tide. the forces could stop the tide. the forces are simply too great against them. and that, of course, is them. and that, of course, is the resistance lawyers from the resistance from lawyers from the resistance from lawyers from the ngos, from charities, from the ngos, from charities, from the media. however i'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt this time and say that definitely making of the

definitely making some of the right noises and the key detail is define is illegal is they define what is illegal because until now i haven't all you enter britain you can't enter britain illegally, this key piece of illegally, but this key piece of legislation will say you legislation will say if you abandon your documents and if you on our shores without you arrive on our shores without legal are legal documentation, you are illegal. and at that point you forfeit all of your rights to even claiming asylum. now, where they all send to paramount, we haven't said a single person to rwanda. that was a kind of showcase policy that just hasn't delivered . we're going to need delivered. we're going to need a lot more places . airfields have lot more places. airfields have been when that been mentioned. now, when that was in lenton on news , was proposed in lenton on news, i to our news and spoke to i went to our news and spoke to locals were absolutely locals who were absolutely appalled idea of appalled about the idea of thousands of young men wandering around of tiny around the streets of a tiny village. but they were more village. but if they were more like containments centres where people quickly people could be quickly processed and sent away, processed and then sent away, and have territories and we have territories overseas, we have the falklands islands, have the essential islands, we have the essential ones, do sovereign ones, we do have sovereign territories also work territories that could also work . be lot cheaper in the . it'd be a lot cheaper in the long run to go down this route. now, another key thing about this i think it's very

this is i think it's very cleverly you going to force the ferret down the rabbit hole of what the labour party actually think about this, because they've on the they've been sitting on the fence with brexit. and fence just like with brexit. and i going to make the i think it's going to make the next election. so if you next election. okay. so if you want to stop the you vote want to stop the boats, you vote tory labour party tory and force the labour party to a party of to admit they are a party of open borders . indeed. to admit they are a party of open borders. indeed. james, your ? yes. it's not your thoughts? yes. it's not going to work because it's not going to work because it's not going to work because it's not going to stop displacement . the going to stop displacement. the reason why people are leaving their countries, not going their countries, it's not going to . not to to stop them. it's not going to stop people trying to come to stop them. it's not going to st(to people trying to come to stop them. it's not going to st(to the)le trying to come to stop them. it's not going to st(to the uk trying to come to stop them. it's not going to st(to the uk . trying to come to stop them. it's not going to st(to the uk . therying to come to stop them. it's not going to st(to the uk . the boat to come to stop them. it's not going to st(to the uk . the boat route ne in to the uk. the boat route started up when they started closing down other routes. there aren't safe and legal routes for people to take, so that's not going to stop. it won't pay the backlog. that's a huge backlog, like 165,000 hundred 66,000. this won't do anything to clear that that requires resources in the home office so that people can be processed, so that claims can be processed, so that claims can be processed and judged by the they are they should be granted asylum or not a it's

kind of gross to say that someone claiming asylum is no longer legal. someone claiming asylum is no longer legal . people have a longer legal. people have a should have a legal right to claim asylum . whether that is claim asylum. whether that is judged to be granted is a different question . you have different question. you have a right to have it granted, but you definitely have a right to claim asylum. and i think , claim asylum. and i think, michelle, what you said at the beginning about whether it's a distraction and whether it's going to be used politically, that's exactly what this is. this is a problem that is basically created by the government. they created the backlog through through through cuts and through poor , poor cuts and through poor, poor resourcing. we've had large numbers coming in the past before hand and we didn't have such big visas. we have i mean, we have more asylum claims and more asylum acceptances in this century than we have right now. you say about this , it's not you say about this, it's not your first point. it's not going to stop the displacement, the reasons why . to stop the displacement, the reasons why. i mean, let's be honest about this. people are coming from albania via france.

what's causing that most displacement then? okay but the majority of people who are claiming asylum are not from albania via france. so the majority of people that are making the cross know they're not currently they're not. in not currently so they're not. in terms as a nationality, they terms of as a nationality, they are not majority. are they're not the majority. they're the they're nationality and the majority that that they're majority of that that they're a minor oddity that the largest minority folk, afghanistan , minority folk, afghanistan, syria, libya . and so yemen and syria, libya. and so yemen and so eritrea. these are not countries where this is not going to do anything at all to slow down. the creation of this is on hold on. and this is not something that we can avoid because the number of people who are set to be displaced over the next decades is going up dramatically . but when you say dramatically. but when you say cause because food systems are in are being interrupted , in are being interrupted, because the climate is being changed, which is going to have more conflict over over resources. so we actually have to work out how people who are

fleeing, where they're fleeing from, where they can go. and this is not going to do anything about that. can i ask you a question? do you believe in the concept of borders? do you believe in the concepts of passports that should be controlled that are controlled borders that are controlled borders that are controlled or controlled by that? yes or no? but that's nothing to do but that's got nothing to do with. do. so somebody with. so you do. so if somebody arrives without passport and arrives without a passport and under new legislation, they under this new legislation, they will illegal , will be arriving here illegal, they dealt with they can be dealt with accordingly. that's the point. people have to finding what illegal okay. is illegal is. okay. and this is costing £10 million a day. so it's a short it's running, though, okay. that money could be spent on family rises be spent on the family rises because you because you can't go. you claiming asylum is not illegal. so you can't say arriving would be fine to this fine. but claiming asylum cannot be made illegal and claim it, claiming asylum cannot be made illegal . asylum cannot be made illegal. it doesn't mean that someone wants to be granted it, and it doesn't mean that someone can't have broken the before. have broken the law before. they've asylum. but you they've claimed asylum. but you cannot make claiming asylum

illegal and that is a very good thing . you can forfeited thing. you can forfeited individual's right to claim if they were proven to have entered they were proven to have entered the country illegally and 90% of people arriving by thing is do not have documentation under this legislation, they would be arriving and they would arriving legally and they would forfeit. arrive claim forfeit. they arrive to claim that's what this legislation does. the government has said that legislation will that what this legislation will do in a breach the law and do well in a breach the law and thereby make it illegal to claim asylum in these yeah. in these circumstances . but it won't circumstances. but it won't actually do that . we know that actually do that. we know that this is a breach of international law. well, they they claim it's not so it's about remains to be seen . but we about remains to be seen. but we know that it is going to be. and why do we have to take the government's word for it when we don't want every other issue on that? can come back. we can that? we can come back. we can agree. but this then is agree. but if this then is deferred to strasbourg, because that's already been said that's what's already been said today. we'll to come today. so we'll have to come sole with strasbourg. and if the labour party, the snp, the house of now the green party of lords now the green party start saying actually we don't

agree with this either, then only thing politically it's a very clever call to play because it will force a position. and the moment that i don't have a position, this is okay, right? so now we're getting to the nub of it. so is really about, of it. so this is really about, as you say, having an election with the same tony abbott slogan from australia, helping both. yes stop the boats. stop the boats. i think that's where it's going. yes, of course that's where it's going. and that's the point, because this government has been in power for 13 years and people are poorer. most people , their living standards people, their living standards are worse. hold on. wait. pay is on average lower. we had we had pubuc on average lower. we had we had public that . well, if a country public that. well, if a country is the mess that this government why so many people desperate to get to the pub the public sector pubuc get to the pub the public sector public services have been cut but billionaire wealth has soared . these are the things soared. these are the things that the government doesn't want to talk about or the or the crisis it's made itself. the backlog it itself created . so it

backlog it itself created. so it wants to create a very simple dividing line and focus everybody's attention and anger in this direction. and now we're going to see it can save their backsides politically . it really backsides politically. it really could. it's as simple as this. if they don't deal with this, they're gonna get wiped out on they're gonna get wiped out on the red wall and the labour party will get into power. this, i think is very clever politics. if is binary choice, do you if it is a binary choice, do you want stop the boats or not? want to stop the boats or not? you brexit done you wanna get brexit done or not. and all over not. and it's 2019 all over again. that's what the tories want to be in that position. okay this isn't going okay so firstly this isn't going to the to so—called stop the boats isn't going prevent people isn't going to prevent people being displaced , it's not going being displaced, it's not going to prevent people wanting to come to this country to seek a place of safety. it's not going to actually prevent any of those things. going to clear things. it's not going to clear the backlog that we have in the asylum it's not going asylum cases. it's not going to do any of those things. all it is do is have the media is going to do is have the media chasing eight, its own chasing its own eight, its own tail . the opposition will not tail. the opposition will not change. the subject will walk

straight into the trap. i'm absolutely sure i don't deny the from narrow , amoral, in from the narrow, amoral, in fact, immoral position of the government. it's cover politics. it's all very old but it's but it is it's bad for this country. it's not the it's not the decent, humane values that we should do. we do not. would you not it won't do anything to people's bills. it would do anything people's. you anything for people's. but you know, nothing to do with the fact that the rich have got all of let him come back. would of the. let him come back. would you concur that it's you not concur that it's immoral, immoral wrong immoral, immoral and wrong to cheat system to the tune of cheat the system to the tune of £10 million per day in hotel costs alone? but that money could be spent on all of the aforementioned things that you want. a pay rises for nurses, pay want. a pay rises for nurses, pay rises for teachers. i'm asking why is there the backlog ? that? asking why is there the backlog 7 that? why? asking why is there the backlog ? that? why? why in ? why? why is that? why? why in 2014 spend the time? why save the money? why in 2014 were almost 100% of asylum applications . processed in six applications. processed in six months. so we could say either yes or no and then deal with why

is it now almost zero? because there are too many. it's a process. okay, but do you concede that? so when you go back years and years, you're talking, i don't know, hundreds small thousands. now small numbers of thousands. now in year alone, i think got in last year alone, i think got 45,000 people use the small boat crossings. okay. you're talking about a roughly double and the number of asylum applications when 2014 to today it'll be 80,000. that would double what there are. there were double what there were last year in 2000, 2001, 2002. we didn't have this we didn't have this backlog. so there is a capacity problem within this state. that's true . and there are more that's true. and there are more cases coming in. but is any thing it waves ashore . come on, thing it waves ashore. come on, look , there's no there's no look, there's no there's no reason to be so asinine about. well, i don't fit this legislation would make it legal. let's stop it the point and have a serious discussion about a

serious issue. you can't just say, oh , right. so you just say, oh, right. so you just weigh them all. so i mean, that's that that isn't the discussion that we should be having at all. can i ask you a question? yeah, of course. albania yeah. i think we would all is by most all concur. it is by most definitions a country. do definitions a safe country. do you think we should have a situation? so sweden, for example, of years ago example, a couple of years ago they a bill, whatever you they wrote a bill, whatever you want call which said if want to call it, which said if you've got a country and it you've got a safe country and it provided list, we even provided a list, we weren't even entertain asylum cases from so—called countries . do you so—called safe countries. do you think we should have a situation in this country where you say, right, let's just pick albania in this country where you say, righthe 3t's just pick albania in this country where you say, righthe 3t's ju recent albania in this country where you say, righthe 3t's ju recent example in this country where you say, righthezt's ju recent example . was the most recent example. that's a safe country. if you even try and even apply for asylum. thank you. off you asylum. no, thank you. off you go to a safe country. do go back to a safe country. do you that's reasonable? so you think that's reasonable? so i don't think that you have to do that. but you can have something approximates something that approximates that, as as extreme. that, which isn't as as extreme. so you can say you think straight. no, no, no . i'm asking straight. no, no, no. i'm asking because i've listened to you . do because i've listened to you. do you think is your question ? i you think is your question? i know, i want to rephrase it. know, but i want to rephrase it. do you think it's extreme saying

to people, right, that you come from safe country via by the from a safe country via by the way. no, the safe country. so actually point blank, no exceptions there will be no credence paid to europe. so i think that in the case of a country which is generally safe for most people, you say very few people from that country will be accepted. why any at all? it say, well, that could be circumstance. i'm not going to say point blank that i know about every human trafficking, sex slavery or anything else that might happen in a particular country. but i would say that if a country is safe, probably they're not being granted. they're not being granted. they're not being granted asylum. the countries where people are being granted asylum for 95% of all of applications on are afghanistan . syria yemen or libya. well, that's just like with the numbers. the biggest entrance, for example, is from iran . and, for example, is from iran. and, you know, that's not a war zone. that's that's that's a relative you don't know about political persecution in iran . no, but persecution in iran. no, but what i'm saying is you don't

know about political persecution. i'm not told about that. think there's any that. i don't think there's any reasons anyone claim reasons anyone would claim asylum iran. i'm asylum from iran. what i'm saying simply not claim saying we would simply not claim asylum what saying, is, asylum from what i'm saying, is, in fact, him answer. yeah. in fact, let him answer. yeah. is legal duty to offer is it our legal duty to offer a livelihood and services or school places and benefits? housing our legal and moral housing is our legal and moral obugafion housing is our legal and moral obligation to offer that to anybody in the world who wants to come here. i would say no, and if you think that people aren't gaming the system and coming in with with was with pre—arranged stories of how to get through these interviews , get through these interviews, you're living in kind of cuckoo land this this legislation forfeits the right to abuse the system and that can only be a good thing. it's what people who voted for time and time again since 2015 and to stand in the way of it, i think we will make the labour party get obliterated. i don't care about about labour party being about the labour party being obliterated. come obliterated. i want to come back to make it very to this point, make it very brief i've got to do my brief because i've got to do my think that if someone is being is coming from perfect or difficult segments as a basic

human, as decent person , as human, as a decent person, as a good neighbour, they should be helped. yes, i do think that i think that should be the basis of the of the values that we live under in government. those people people could live under in government. those pe

matters. last comment , which is matters. last comment, which is he reckons people are coming here for free based. so this conversation is going to rumble on. going to return to on. i'm going to return back to it throughout programme. it throughout this programme. i think, i don't think it throughout this programme. i think, yet i don't think it throughout this programme. i think, yet to i don't think it throughout this programme. i think, yet to open.»n't think it throughout this programme. i think, yet to open.»n knowik it throughout this programme. i think, yet to open.»n know that we've yet to open. i know that you are reaching as well to you guys are reaching as well to come into this as well tonight, so going to return to that so i'm going to return to that spot. be taking quick spot. i will be taking a quick break. the other thing i want to get to well is energy get on to as well is energy companies. you think they companies. do you think they should be nationalised or not? but come back, i don't but when i come back, i don't just want continue that just want to continue that conversation. want to conversation. if you want to indulge i'll see you indulge me that i'll see you into .

hello there. i'm michelle dewberry, keeping you company till 7:00 tonight. jim schneider , the co—founder of momentum and a former adviser to jeremy corbyn, and martin daubney, the former brexit party mep, are both keeping me company in the studio tonight . we just been studio tonight. we just been getting into the top story ,

getting into the top story, which is of course rishi sunak's plans to try and stop the so—called small bird . lots of so—called small bird. lots of you have been getting in touch, richard. i admire your optimism. you say , michelle, you took you say, michelle, you took a job at goldman sachs that i'm in an elite mind. rishi sunak is tackling the budget crisis with decisive and exacting a bold plan. he would not commit to something that he couldn't deliver on. really? i appreciate and respect your optimism, but do you honestly believe that many politicians don't make statements that they know that they can't follow up on? but nonetheless, i do appreciate your optimism. you might. i don't. have you seen out of iran? he did. is rishi you do not get a statement probably about an ago our about half an hour ago our political journalist tom harwood asked have asked the question, do you have asked the question, do you have a rishi sunak if a plan b rishi sunak if basically it doesn't fly with the lawyers, the short answer to that it doesn't. so that was, no, it doesn't. so that was, no, it doesn't. so that would interesting that would be interesting to read so optimistic. read you are not so optimistic. you i'll believe it when you say, i'll believe it when i see it. i do not trust the government as far as i can throw them mixed. i have to say on this, says this will be a this, rob says this will be a

nice it works. john nice trick if it works. john says , let's see if the actions says, let's see if the actions match the words. now, just before the break we was getting into the cut and thrust of this. martin was just talking about the pull facts, if you like. martin said, it's all about the freebies . that's what's pulling freebies. that's what's pulling people here. james schneider wasn't happy, chucked his barra in disgust. he said. gavin emailed in and said, please, can you tell that fellow that biros have feelings too ? they go, i've have feelings too? they go, i've told that . ma said, let's told you that. ma said, let's revisit that what will revisit that comment. what will you referring to? i mean, i think we need to be sort of calm about situation that is the about the situation that is the in debate in entire immigration debate that we've basically been denied since the 1970s. and which one of the laid the foundations for brexit never about pulling brexit was never about pulling up drawbridge , was never up the drawbridge, was never about stopping immigration looked like some sort of racist , small minded country. and in fact, the latest thought in the country, in your show shows that we're a tolerant, accepting nation. it was about control in numbers and speed of entry, and nobody can deny that we don't

have a situation now where it's off the scale. we cannot cope in terms of the cost in terms of the amount of ingress and the strain that places on the housing stock, on public services , and on the public services, and on the public purse, which we should spend the money for better elsewhere. of course , it is duty and course, it is our duty and obugafion course, it is our duty and obligation to offer help to the needs and the world, as it always historically has. this isn't about that . this is about isn't about that. this is about people arriving illegally gaming the system because let's face it, we offer one of the most compelling packages on earth for economic migrants , and the economic migrants, and the figures prove that that's the socio . the two things genuine socio. the two things genuine need but those gaming the system that's what this is about. well it's not because if you did want to do that you would put in the resources to be able to process the cases to see who was an asylum seeker, who should have their claim accepted and who shouldn't, rather than engaging in mistruths about people, casting aspersions on why they're coming. coming up,

hatred. it's not in line with the like moral or ethical values of any religion, any humanism or anything like that, which basically comes down to treat your neighbours . you'd like to your neighbours. you'd like to be treated yourself the way in which the what this policy is meant to do doesn't do that. the way in which you're talking about it doesn't do that is not the kind of sensible debate that you claim that you that you want you claim that you that you want you want to have it. it's kind of attacking people , casting of attacking people, casting aspersions on them, on their motivation . and when you must motivation. and when you must accept that a decent number of people who are coming to this country to claim asylum are doing so because they are coming from extremely difficult circumstance . i agree with you . circumstance. i agree with you. i agree with that. and i've just to just say that people are coming here for free. but. yes, yes, of course. of course . you yes, of course. of course. you don't think anybody does. the people the people from you don't

think anybody is doing that. you don't you don't think anybody arriving safe from arriving on a dinghy safe from albania arriving for here albania is arriving for here life rather than fleeing ? i life rather than fleeing? i mean, seriously, you know, how to how to judge that you have a properly resourced system that can process the cases . does this can process the cases. does this do anything, any is there any line in this about resourcing the. yes, we haven't seen the details . we haven't seen the details. we haven't seen the data. right give it a minute. so there's nothing in it at all about boosting our capacity to actually process the cases? no, not no, no , there isn't. because not no, no, there isn't. because it is the purpose of this is exactly as you said, it is political. it is because this is a delaying government that wishes to distract from its gross failings. and it knows that. i agree with that. they have basically failed. that is controlling our borders. that is what this is about. it is not about dealing with housing, health. it is education. you're saying it's politics? yeah, it's

about politics. the press pause it. it's about policy. so just a few things. i just want to throw out the if i may, writes. small boat arrivals by national to january to december 2022. so albanians 12,301. the next group was afghans 8006. iran 5006. iraq 4003. syria your rapidly declining so whilst not an overall majority , the majority overall majority, the majority of people making those crossings from from are from albania . i from from are from albania. i would certainly argue that is a very safe country . you talk very safe country. you talk about resources. what is it you expect people to do right . so expect people to do right. so when you have got tens and tens of thousands of people, 45, 48,000 last year, do you propose that you just have this ongoing. adam for nights, a vast array of resource is sitting there to be able to process. however very many people come. it could be a thousand before we know what you think, you should just resource ad infinitum. i it isn't

ad infinitum. i mean, it isn't going to be 100,000, but how do you know ? but it'll be 8000 next you know? but it'll be 8000 next yeah you know? but it'll be 8000 next year. you won't be double this. we should categorically say it's not going to be almost doubled year on year. so how do you know it's not got to 100,000? if it was 45 ish last year? well, eight substantially less than it was years ago. 19 years ago, was 20 years ago. 19 years ago, 18 years ago. but anyway, we should we sufficiently resource it that we can quickly process people's claims to see if they should be if they are entitled to help and they should have our support . yes, of course we support. yes, of course we should. right and very, very, very briefly, you said it's all political, very briefly, because i am in trouble in my ear. what's labour's plan then? if this is policy, i've got absolutely no idea. well, you and the rest of the nation are all in agreement that because no one very to one does, it's very easy to criticise all it's criticise all of this. it's very, very, very easy to lay the blame at the government. apparently thing is apparently everything thing is the government the fault of the government these but then is the these days. but what then is the answer opposition ? very answer from the opposition? very loud criticism there. absolutely

fascinating. what would you do about it, though, for any labour supporter as members, etc? give me your thoughts. right. i i'm going to move on. i'm going to take a break. am i going to. yes, i'm going to take a break. when i come back, i'll have some more of your thoughts. but i also want to talk to you about policing . you the policing. do you think the police in country have got police in this country have got their fire resources straight? yeah this 24 per sentence of people think that they're doing a good job trusting the police. it's only about 50 also percent all full time when it comes to morale to be a police officer. why do you stand on it all? keep your thoughts and i'll see you .

in two. hi there. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, jim schneider, the co—founder of

momentum and a former advisor to corbett, jeremy corbyn and martin daubney, the former brexit party mep , is a high brexit party mep, is a high spirited debate about the channel crossings. i do want to reiterate , by the way, i do reiterate, by the way, i do think that any decent minded ferc would want if there is a genuine case of persecution and all the rest of it, we wouldn't want to help those people. i think for a lot of my view is a lot of perhaps people beyond that, the sense that people are picking and choosing economically from countries economically from safe countries , conflict and , those kind of conflict and cause a little bit of frustration and high emotion and passion as well on that topic anyway , let's talk about the anyway, let's talk about the police, shall we? what do you think of to the policing in this country at the moment? are you happy with it's going happy with the way it's going there there, in the there in there, in the spotlight? again, the police force , because you might be force, because you might be familiar with that. it was tragic, an situation in tragic, an awful situation in wales over the weekend . five wales over the weekend. five young people got in a car basically , they were reported basically, they were reported missing after a night out, didn't come home and very, very

unfortunately , three of them unfortunately, three of them were found suddenly , passed away were found suddenly, passed away in a car. two of them remaining in a car. two of them remaining in hospital now unwell. they've in hospital now unwell. they've in for a lot of criticism of police. what they're saying is it wasn't perhaps taken seriously when people were reporting the missing. the pubuc reporting the missing. the public , the families, the loved public, the families, the loved ones of these people. kids have to out and find them . lots of to go out and find them. lots of criticism . the details of all criticism. the details of all this will become apparent in a few as well. but you know, few days as well. but you know, when look at the police and when you look at the police and the place in general, the trust in place in general, many say that many people would say that they've priorities they've got the priorities perhaps wrong. only about 50% of people trust police . where people trust the police. where do stand on it, martin? do you stand on it, martin? well, first of all, you got to imagine horror of in imagine the horror of lying in that for days, waiting that car for two days, waiting to be found. and we still won't know how many died of the impacts and many died of impacts and how many died of exposure. . and it's exposure. for example. and it's a detail , terrible a terrible detail, terrible case, that will out in case, and that will come out in the report and in time the coroner's report and in time with hopefully, with the witnesses, hopefully, if through if they make it through healthily. but i do think it shines a light on priorities of policing. mean, we have a case policing. i mean, we have a case now where 6% of burglaries are

solved in the uk and i think we saw a real shift during lockdowns where the police we said we got a police state, but what does that mean? it meant enforcing my new shiny 4000 covid offences. i mean, you'll get an x ray wave, you're wearing a mask, we've got a coffee in public and if you misgendered somebody, you get off the boys and play around quicker, could say ymca and i just think we're in that position now where people are really wondering is it about policing tweets or is it about policing tweets or is it about policing the street is it about paperwork or is it about footwork? and this search and rescue operation seems to be one of the basics of policing that they should be focusing on. get a chopper in the air if people will still, i'm sure they could have been seen with infrared. the of search was the area of search was relatively contained because they knew where they were in the night they where they night, but they knew where they lived. surely suggests me lived. surely it suggests to me that could have got onto this soonen that could have got onto this sooner. and i think cases like this, rightly especially great for wales, became for wales, which became a serious police state where you

couldn't even go shopping, you couldn't even go shopping, you couldn't even go to a bar. the engush couldn't even go to a bar. the english a while, a band from wales very handed wales very, very heavy handed policing there . and when policing there. and yet when it's needed i think once again the have public the police have let the public down. do feel sorry. down. yes, i do feel sorry. i mean, there any frontline mean, if there are any frontline police officers watching this, i can imagine your morale can only imagine your morale must through the floor. at must be through the floor. at this moment in time, you do quite difficult and you do quite a difficult job and you do a lot of criticism. i wonder, do you think it's fair and valid or totally unjust? give me your thoughts if you're one of them, james, thoughts? yeah. and james, your thoughts? yeah. and i imagine the very few police officers that actually want to be spending more time doing paperwork and less out doing you know, doing the job. the job that people people want them to do so. you know, the focus is not, you know , it's not about not, you know, it's not about level , but there is not, you know, it's not about level, but there is a problem which you know, this this report from more got more in common. it was a year long study into attitudes in crime and policing . so, you know, the overwhelming

majority of people don't think that police are visible in the in their local areas , which is, in their local areas, which is, you which is a problem and you know, which is a problem and also trust. and in pieces, though, i think some of the things we should be looking things that we should be looking at rather than bringing in like new labour brought in an unbelievable large number of new offences on anti—social behaviour and so on. and it didn't, it didn't necessarily fix , but i think if there fix things, but i think if there are more, you know, more police in community that have greater community oversight, there's some way in which people know who , you know, know who that who, you know, know who that police officer is and they can have some relationship with them, which is , you know, that's them, which is, you know, that's what people i think that's what they understand. it's not their ideal thing . they think of happy ideal thing. they think of happy valley . they think of the you valley. they think of the you know , police doing their jobs know, police doing theirjobs like that. but there are also other things that go with it as well when we're talking crime and level crime and and low level crime and antisocial behaviour, which is the stuff that is getting picked up more and more, is a lot of

the things that are for kids to do has been taken away. if that if you get social services and new services and parks and the budgets, all those things get cut back. there's less things for people to do. it makes for like less. you know, less nice neighbourhoods for, for people to live in. so there's a combination of things, all of which involve bringing the, the policing and the services to people, giving them more control over what is going on. and again, it does come back to resourcing if you, you know, if you're trying to do it on the cheap, it's not going to be good, whatever that is. i think you raise a very good point, though, about this. this isn't about having a pot, but the rank and file bobbies, know, that and file bobbies, you know, that would be fighting out. would be fighting to get out. that's this this come that's is i think this this come from the top brass from the college policing the college of policing the initiatives guidance initiatives and the guidance in place. we've lost our place. i think we've lost our way. we've lost our way about what the police stand for. and when look even 20 when you look back, even 20 years ago at how the police used to was about to police, it was about community about being

community policing, about being known, of known, about having a point of contact about building contact, about building trust, but community, but working with the community, not the community. and not against the community. and it just wonderful, it was just a wonderful, wonderful those wonderful thing. i think those days sadly gone. these days are sadly gone. these cases, sadly expose cases, i think sadly they expose that. truly, thomas says that michelle, as per usual, the police getting the blame. why on earth there a full earth would there be a full scale police search five non scale police search for five non vulnerable adults who have been on a night out these days? it's just too easy for media just way too easy for the media and to all those and society to blame all those sps the police says sps ashley the police says thomas but says our police thomas but john says our police force has been depleted to satisfy factual levels by respective governments and what what's left of the police forces are too busy these days investigating what john calls hetty word crimes and filling out paperwork . that is, he says out paperwork. that is, he says when they're not stored at the side of the road, we're one of those possible speed guns. right. your thoughts coming right. keep your thoughts coming in. going to take a in. get this going to take a quick break. when i come back, britain has apparently become one of the most socially liberal countries the planet, countries on the planet, overtaking canada. australia and germany. what does that mean and

is it a good thing and how of a good thing is too good ? give me good thing is too good? give me your thoughts. i'll see you . there's help for households. are you over state pension age? if your weekly income is below £182.60, or £278.70 if you live with a partner, you could be eligible for pension credit, even if you own your home or have savings. it's worth, on average, £3,500 a year

and you could get help with heating bills and more, plus up to £900 in cost of living payments.

in two. hello there . i'm michelle hello there. i'm michelle dewberry. now i'm keeping you company right through till 7:00 tonight. jim schneider , the tonight. jim schneider, the co—founder of momentum keeps me company , as does martin daubney, company, as does martin daubney, the former brexit party mp . the former brexit party mp. welcome back, everybody . get welcome back, everybody. get this . a survey has found that this. a survey has found that the uk ranks among the world's most liberal nations, placing it on full of, get this countries like germany , australia on like germany, australia on issues like divorce, euthanasia, suicide etc. what do you think to this? i'll start with you, which had a wider span, too, but i'll start with you. 63% of us here think that divorce is acceptable. 47 abortion, 55% of

people justify the death penalty and it goes on. your thoughts, martin well, on the one hand, you could say isn't this is this great? the once a for once we hear that britain isn't this intolerant, racist, kind of cesspit and maybe we're getting a few things right. then a few things right. but then when look at what we're when you look at what we're doing and the doing well and it's the breakdown family unit, breakdown of the family unit, it's lives early. it's about ending lives early. these are real cornerstone to sort of the lightning rod issues in america. for example, this this could be looked at as the breakdown of the family, the breakdown of the family, the breakdown of the family, the breakdown of and i do think that the journey of liberalism should have. and if things like the accept sense of same sex marriage, i'm very i'm socially liberal believe it. or not. and but i do think that we need to we need to be careful about where this journey will end . where this journey will end. because, for example, i think at the moment we're seeing a big kick about, example , kick back about, for example, drag schools, causing drag queens in schools, causing a chagrin the sexualised a big chagrin and the sexualised action of children support this liberal trans liberal journey. the trans politics now taking over from from from the lgbt bits as as

this new accepted religion and norm and the mutilation of children is that liberalism or is it just all going a bit too far. discussed james. yeah so i don't think that more people thinking that divorce is okay is part of that some quite too far of liberalism or some assault on the assault on the family. i mean, you can have both in greater acceptance of homosexuality and an understanding that some people's relationships don't work and so that they they break up. you can have goods on the standing that we want to have loving families and caring communities and all the rest of it. so i don't see i basically don't think this is some great culture war divide that on these issues. we're probably just more relaxed with ourselves. i think it's really good that these issues divorce, homosexuality and abortion aren't big rage battles that we

would argue about here in the same way that they are in the us. i think actually i wouldn't choose the word liberal in this. i would just choose the word like relaxed or , comfortable like relaxed or, comfortable with ourselves . and i with the with ourselves. and i think on, on, this we should, think on, on, on this we should, we applaud ourselves . we should applaud ourselves. we're position where these we're in a position where these things are not so strong , fast things are not so strong, fast and difficult. well, that would be a great place to stop this program, wouldn't it? it's a good. yes. there you go. we found something we can celebrate when it comes this country. found something we can celebrate when let's�*nes this country. found something we can celebrate when let's go. this country. found something we can celebrate when let's go. but his country. found something we can celebrate when let's go. but i've:ountry. found something we can celebrate when let's go. but i've still ry. woo! let's go. but i've still got minutes left. martin got a few minutes left. martin you to get involved, you used to get involved, editing and the rest of it what i let's get at what i would called let's get at what role do you think those kind of things have played in the moving forward of society ? reason it's forward of society? reason it's time, don't forget. but go on. well, i mean, as you know , i well, i mean, as you know, i added to the load for eight years before that i was features director and it was a product aimed at young men, which was titillating, but it was never talked shelf. and when i left that magazine, when i became a father, i've been accused for a long time of being this entry

level nursery slope, level point, this nursery slope, if like, the darker things if you like, the darker things like of brutal like the emergence of brutal online. so i made a tv show of in the brain for channel which the tavistock clinic now being closed down. of course, criminologist, sites, barristers, those who work with the most violent sex offenders in britain trying to work. it was partly question the answer. it wasn't. and in fact, if you look to society in liberal societies like denmark , where societies like denmark, where they allowed more access to, they are allowed more access to, there was a corresponding downturn in sex offences, completely flipped the narrative and what we found was a lot of young men were being overwhelmed and confused by what they were witnessing, not because they felt that a new normal. so felt that was a new normal. so the point is getting there, talk to them and say you don't have to them and say you don't have to be doing all this stuff that's pause button that's pressed the pause button and and caring and be responsible and caring partners and then having to partners role and then having to re—enact stuff you from re—enact the stuff you see from age 11, 12 onwards. oh god, age ten, 11, 12 onwards. oh god, a 14 year old boy looking at like, well, anyway, james, one of the points that matthew was making earlier was about perhaps

the direction of travel when it comes things like comes to things like sexualisation children, comes to things like sexualisation children , etc. sexualisation of children, etc. do you worry that we might be going in a wrong direction ? i going in a wrong direction? i think the oversexualized nation of children and kind of gross imagery , sort of the kind of imagery, sort of the kind of stuff that you're alluding to is something that we have had in society for quite a long time. and i don't i'm sure it's necessarily on the rise, but it's definitely there and it can cause all sorts of it's becoming quite more mainstream though, isn't it? you've got fashion houses. it's like balenciaga. i think it's gucci coming criticism well, criticism as well, doing campaigns which feature teddies wearing bondage gear , you know, wearing bondage gear, you know, p0p wearing bondage gear, you know, pop stars with toddler mattresses propped up behind them as though somehow that's cool and edgy when actually, quite frankly, it's just weird. it does sound a bit weird. it does, is. that's not just does, but it is. that's not just one campaign there. they are different that i referenced there. so do worry actually. there. so i do worry actually. i think think there are think i mean, i think there are plenty of quite toxic in lots of

different ways advertising campaigns that run because you've got to remember that when someone is running an advertising campaign , they're advertising campaign, they're trying get into your brain to trying to get into your brain to sell product they don't know. sell a product they don't know. they how you they don't care how much you think, what of brain think, what kind of brain they're trying to get into, which thinks that the answer is, let's teddy bear, let's let's get a teddy bear, let's stick and stick some bondage gear and let's pepper referring let's put some pepper referring to exploitation to child sexual exploitation that brand that i that is a brand that i definitely not want get definitely would not want to get into, quite frankly. anyway, you guys are massively divided on that migrant issue as to whether or not you think that this plan is the answer or not. that conversation will not go anywhere . it will rumble on and anywhere. it will rumble on and on. but for now, that's all i've got time for. gentlemen, thank you very much for your spirited debate tonight. much debate tonight. i very much enjoyed you . at home enjoyed it. thank you. at home for yours to have yourselves a fantastic night . for yours to have yourselves a fantastic night. i'm pleased to report that james is pen lifts to see another day after we fruit in absolute disgust . it fruit in absolute disgust. it will be used again having . have will be used again having. have

a good one, guys, and i'll see you tomorrow . alex deakin here you tomorrow. alex deakin here with your latest weather update . snow and ice warnings are in place for the rest of this week issued by the met office. check out the met office website for more details on those warnings. but here's what's happening . but here's what's happening. we've a weather front just we've got a weather front just brushing areas as go brushing southern areas as we go through tuesday night and wednesday. likely wednesday. and they are likely to rain, to provide a mixture of rain, sleet and in some some heavy snowfall over the next 24 hours. so a wet night across the south snow showers in northern scotland. they'll be easing, potentially going icy in northern ireland as well, but also icy in the south as this wet weather comes in between wet weather comes in in between large chunks of the country. clare and cold minus four, minus five. even in towns and cities , five. even in towns and cities, maybe —15 through some rural parts across scotland. so cold, frosty start to wednesday, but a wet start in the south covering of snow as possible a centimetre or two as we go through the day probably for a time across the southeast . but then we'll look southeast. but then we'll look at another pulse of wet weather coming the southwest that

coming into the southwest that could some heavy snow could produce some heavy snow dunng could produce some heavy snow during afternoon into during wednesday afternoon into south wales, south—west england and further east later and scooting further east later on again for a good chunk of the country tomorrow. it's just sunny but cold day for five. the high many snow showers high, not as many snow showers in scotland , but a in northern scotland, but a greater of seeing snow greater risk of seeing some snow across the south across south wales. the south midlands , southern counties midlands, southern counties of england during wednesday evening time we could see five centimetres of snow in places, maybe some spots, maybe ten in some spots, particularly high ground. it all starts to pull away as we go through wednesday evening. one area we're concerned about then, but then another area as this next low comes in further north, the potential for some heavy snow on thursday and into friday. parts of northern england, ireland england, wales, northern ireland and scotland. much of scotland will be dry and on will be dry and bright on thursday. it's friday. we could see some snow here. but look at this wales. the midlands this wet wales. the midlands could see some snow on thursday, pushing northern england pushing into northern england and the and northern ireland through the day into southern day and eventually into southern scotland south by scotland in the south by thursday it will to turn a thursday it will start to turn a little milder. so it's more

likely we'll see rain here. go back.

well, a day of very brief pronouncements from the home secretary and the prime minister and new legislation to stop the boats do they really believe in it or are they just playing a game of politics? the budget is coming up next week. is there any that we stop the any hope that we can stop the chancellor up chancellor putting up corporation tax by a staggering 30? well ukraine bakhmut a salient all the ukraine is right to be defending that position . to be defending that position. and joining me on talking points , duncan larcombe, former royal editor of the sun newspaper and a man who befriended harry. i'm going to ask him. what on earth has gone wrong ? could it be the has gone wrong? could it be the drugs? i don't know . but before

drugs? i don't know. but before all