next coming up on today's show with the gary lineker brow still raging, i'll be speaking to robert buckland, former justice secretary, about the government's migration plans. i'll also be discussing them with damian green , former deputy with damian green, former deputy prime minister and i'm going to be joined by lord sumption, former supreme court justice , to former supreme court justice, to discuss his reaction to the files. all that and more to come. but first, here's the news with ray anderson . thanks. good

with ray anderson. thanks. good morning . 930. here's the latest morning. 930. here's the latest . the bbc was forced to broadcast match of the day commentary all due to the studio punditry last night after broadcast stars boycotted the channel over , its handling of channel over, its handling of the gary lineker controversy . the gary lineker controversy. the former footballer has been stood as presenter over a tweet criticising the government's migration policy . criticising the government's migration policy. in the sunday mirror lineker's son george said he thinks he will return to the show, but won't back down on his word rishi sunak is flying to the united states today to discuss the orcas deal between the uk , us and australia. hoped the uk, us and australia. hoped that after a summit with biden, the australian premier will announce the purchase of british nuclear powered submarines . nuclear powered submarines. while in the us mr. sunak expected to reveal a defence and foreign policy update and the health secretary has criticised

junior doctors for failing to call off strike action on monday. writing in the telegraph, ceo steve barclay described the 72 hour walk out as incredibly disappointing. the british medical association has described mr. barclay's offer to negotiate as a feeble attempt to stall us. it's expected to have the biggest impact of any industrial action by health unions since december affecting a&e, cancer care and maternity on tv, online and on dab+ radio. this is gb news. back now to the camilla tominey show . camilla tominey show. well, good morning and welcome to the show. we haven't boycotted ourselves. we are here. we will be providing commentary. we will be analysing the news. and what we'll be doing is doing it in a way, because as you know and i know

you can't discuss immigration policy in 140 characters or less on twitter, you have to do it by asking people the relevant questions, discussing things and not branding people who disagree with and that's joy of gb news with. and that's joy of gb news folks, because we are the people's channel, after all. now, before i introduce my newspaper guests, let me just go through the headlines, which, as can dominated by can imagine, are dominated by lineker. so here we are, first of all, the sunday telegraph . i of all, the sunday telegraph. i have got the sunday telegraph, but i have got the sunday telegraph on the prompter. so i'll look down to it. i won't quit, says bbc boss, as he hints at climbdown. now this is quite interesting because the sunday initially did lineker pay chaos .paups initially did lineker pay chaos . paul's pressure on bbc chief, but then it changed up to this story, which we will get into, because i think this is kind of gaining momentum as the day goes on. fears of global tech chaos as collapses . so we're as bank collapses. so we're discussing that in just a minute. the again goes minute. the observer again goes with sports pundit lineker with the sports pundit lineker rowe threatens to topple bbc

chief and hit asylum plan , chief and hit asylum plan, suggesting that perhaps the government's plan on, all this could be scuppered by the intervention of the match of the day. host mirror lineker. day. host the mirror lineker. i'll never be silenced, he says .thenin i'll never be silenced, he says . then in the sun express again, noting a current came a running theme of the sun papers. today, bbc sport blackout the mail on sunday goes west . bbc sport blackout the mail on sunday goes west. pm bbc sport blackout the mail on sunday goes west . pm hits back sunday goes west. pm hits back at lineker . that's after rishi at lineker. that's after rishi sunak released a statement about it all yesterday night and then in the sun sunday we have the penalty shootout , which is penalty shootout, which is probably quite a good way to describe the to and fro between lineker and the bbc, which looks set to continue into tomorrow as lineker's people get together with tim davie to work out a solution. i'm delighted this morning joined. michael morning to be joined. michael carrick legendary political journalist, but also massive football fan. so we can pull through this particular story. now i know when we say to come in and do the papers and normally we've got a great of

variety on front pages, not variety on the front pages, not so this morning, michael. so much this morning, michael. there's only in town there's only one story in town on sunday, isn't there, on this sunday, isn't there, really? and it's really? it's and it's extraordinary. is a know, extraordinary. it is a you know, an apparent, trivial story in some . and, know, at some ways. and, you know, at a time huge economic time when huge economic problems, everything, problems, ukraine, everything, this dominating front this is dominating the front pages. but it is actually an important story and it's a showdown , which, in my view, the showdown, which, in my view, the bbc the director general of the bbc the director general of the bbc to do tv has to win. bbc the director general of the bbc to do tv has to win . he has bbc to do tv has to win. he has to lay down the principle that somebody who is the bbc's highest paid . employee on 1.3 highest paid. employee on 1.3 and a half £1.3 million a year cannot simply tweet as he feels like a huge matter of public policy . the big issue for the policy. the big issue for the general , the whole question of general, the whole question of small boats and immigration and certainly is not the issue. it will be one of the major issues and so and the show is both sides of paying themselves into a point and bends themselves

into a corner, really. gary has made it clear that he's not going to be he's going to carry on saying these things. and tim davie has made it clear that he's got to stop saying these things. and dave davis backs down on this. i think he's going to have to go as director general. his authority will be shot through. and i think it's very unlikely that gary lineker will back down, because he clearly passionately clearly feels very passionately about this whole issue. do you have understand for this have any understand for this argument? you're a argument? because you're a former man yourself and former bbc man yourself and obviously a journalist, that there are different for bbc journalist and there might be for bbc sports pundit? yes, of course. that the i can understand that the trouble with this, though, is that lineker is , you know, arguably the most prominent member of bbc staff in a way, even though is technically he's freelance. he's certainly the most well paid . certainly the most well paid. and i just think if you turned it round and if the presenter of the match of the day said, you know , full marks to the

know, full marks to the government , i fully support, you government, i fully support, you know, sending everybody back who's come over in the small boats. you can imagine the outcry that would have caused amongst bbc staff. outcry that would have caused amongst bbc staff . and calling amongst bbc staff. and calling for him to lose his job. so there's a lot of hypocrisy going on here. and basically people are lining up depending on what what their own political views are. my position is that, you have to preserve broadcast casting, impartiality particularly with the main address legal channels like bbc because in broadcasting impartiality is one of the things in my view which binds this country together at a time when people want to tear and tear the country apart in a way , and our discourse has become more and more polarised. and if you had tweeted what he tweeted when you were political of newsnight, you'd have expected to next morning. to be the very next morning. exactly although you could say political news night. political action news night. that's kind of that's a different kind of job from presenter match of from being presenter of match of the . but i do think that tim

the day. but i do think that tim davie is right to crack down on lineker after all he made a return really to a proper impartiality and the maintenance of impartiality. a plank of his director generalship. it's really important to and he's had some success. so and one or two people have, frankly got rid of. yes. and so and if he doesn't win this battle, then it's going to be very, very difficult to discipline anybody who at a lower level? a reporter or somebody who works for radio lincolnshire or something, who comes out with political statements on social media, which of course, is the easiest thing in the world to do, particularly when you're drunk. last no, that's fine. not that i'm suggesting lineker i'm suggesting that lineker did this drunk, so we this when he was drunk, so we should have a tweet. trump we know much. now, what else know that much. now, what else is papers? was is in the papers? what was interesting the sunday interesting that the sunday times the lineker times changed up the lineker story to the story about this silicon valley the us is silicon valley bank in the us is this actually bigger than the papers have covered? it papers today have covered? it seems growing. well, seems to, be growing. well, i think it should have had more coverage in the papers. and the

problem as , you well know, with problem as, you well know, with sunday they tend to go sunday papers is they tend to go to bed, go to the press, you know, quite early and sunday times are right there. my view is, given it attention , i don't is, given it attention, i don't think this is another northern northern rock, but there are clearly we know there have talks between emergency talks really between emergency talks really between andrew , the governor of between andrew, the governor of the bank of england, the chancellor jeremy the bank of england, the chancellorjeremy hunt, and rishi sunak over the weekend about this. and that shows the extent to which they're worried about and, of course, ahead about it. and, of course, ahead of budget wednesday . and, of the budget on wednesday. and, you know, jeremy hunt and not want to turn britain into technological superpower . and technological superpower. and the trouble is with the collapse of the of the british arm of this bank is that there are technology companies that have their money that bank who their money with that bank who have thousands of employees . it have thousands of employees. it could be a severe blow to the high tech industry and. the government is going to have to come up with some kind of package really to save them. but i don't think we're going to see

a i mean, i'm not an economic expert, but i don't think we're talking about from what can gather run on banks and gather a run on the banks and the kind financial crisis the kind of financial crisis that saw way back in 20. will that we saw way back in 20. will that we saw way back in 20. will that a public appetite for that be a public appetite for another bailout the another bank bailout by the government? well, think it government? well, i think it would. scale. yes. would. pretty small scale. yes. and not so much a and really, it's not so much a bank as as a as a sort bank bailout as as a as a sort of a lifeboat for the people who are dependent . the companies are dependent. the companies that are dependent on this bank to run their businesses. i'm having on later and lord peter maurya so they will be able to discuss this, talk about it much more sensibly the night of the budget. yeah, i'd like trouble with michael. we with journalists, michael. we function and most of the time this is the when generally a lot of the times, you know another under the radar story the weekend is of course this doctor strike which is taking place next week . again, it's not front next week. again, it's not front page but it probably page news, but it probably should i think yeah . i should be. i think so, yeah. i mean, it's and it's hardly covered on the inside pages ehhen covered on the inside pages either. you've got on either. i mean, you've got on screen mail on sunday

screen there the mail on sunday account it that's fairly to account of it that's fairly to the doctors who are the junior doctors who are calling for a whopping 35% pay rise, which seems enormous even with ten, 11% inflation. right but of course, they say that is purely to restore their pay to the levels of 28 to 29, 15 years ago . and they do work ago. and they do work extraordinary hours . and there extraordinary hours. and there are all sorts of pressures on them now . i mean, the them now. i mean, the government, which is never going to concede a pay rise like that and but clearly this the government is going to have address this. i mean, it's a three day strike. yeah it's going to have a real effect . the going to have a real effect. the health service emergency cancer appointments are going to have to be postponed . all this much to be postponed. all this much pubuc to be postponed. all this much public support as, say, nurses , public support as, say, nurses, because i think that's a perception , even if junior perception, even if junior doctors are paid paid pretty well . i doctors are paid paid pretty well. i mean, i know they're saying that they want 35% more, but most people look at go 35%

pay but most people look at go 35% pay rise. i mean , the private pay rise. i mean, the private sector couldn't even get five of that 35. i know. but the was actually a poll in the sunday times today that suggests the pubuc times today that suggests the public do actually support junior on this. now, junior doctors on this. now, that may and of course the crunch come if we get stories over the next three days of this strike action of people who are, you know , die as a result of you know, die as a result of this sort sometimes emergency people it's the aca , a&e, people people it's the aca, a&e, people that are the real problem . and that are the real problem. and then, of course, if appointments are cancelled, it could mean that cancer patients are having to wait weeks until their appointment or are they going to move mean, the move everybody? so, i mean, the ramifications huge. ramifications are huge. it's a big, story . again, in the big, big story. again, in the run up to the budget on wednesday when the chancellor is going to have to start thinking about, you know, is he is he going have enough money from going to have enough money from somewhere to settle some of these that 35. not these pages? not that 35. not 35. yeah, indeed . thank you very 35. yeah, indeed. thank you very much indeed forjoining this much indeed for joining this morning. i hear you're off to

the football later. i might be in the stores with gary now . i in the stores with gary now. i know to be fair, you'll be at manchester united. i don't think you're there. right. thank you very for michael very much for that. michael tomahawk is deputy tomahawk gb news is deputy political editor in crawley. he's with the people's panel. absolutely to know what the punters in crawler of gary lineker of migration in general do they think that they're if they are against illegal migration? tom tell everything we. yes, some big questions to explore today where it olivers coffee and a wonderful cafe just outside crawley and i'm delighted to say we can have a few words with the manager chris and chris how's. business is great. it always be better but coffee and wine cornerstone of modern civilisation . we have a modern civilisation. we have a great clientele and. life is good. great clientele and. life is good . well, i have to say, i had good. well, i have to say, i had a wonderful bacon sony for me this morning and. it was served me very well. but let's without further ado get to our people's panel. the reason we are here, i'm delighted to say we're

joined by roger darby and by i'm rogen joined by roger darby and by i'm roger. first of all, what's the issue that is exercising you at the moment? well i think it's have been a long time for me and young people can't afford houses. we're having we're having to build as many as a size of nottingham , you know, size of nottingham, you know, every year to accommodate the number of people coming into the country and even if people living here can't afford a house so i think that's something that needs fixing and ties in with the migration. question no doubt . be how about you ? i'm . be how about you? i'm currently very worried about the division and hatred that's been caused in this country. you know, if you have an opposing point of view to the current narrative being pushed by certain lobbies and everything. then you are called all sorts of names and i resent that we should respect each other's views . and you know , just go views. and you know, just go along with and get on with each other. it's at the moment it's shocking, i think. and people like who i'm sure you'll come to

totally just makes it worse . and totally just makes it worse. and bob but what is the thing at the top of your mind right now? well i think there are so many things, but there's a terrible decline in the quality of politicians in politics generally over the last few years. don't seem to be they years. we don't seem to be they talk lot. we don't seem to be talk a lot. we don't seem to be able to achieve anything we haven't achieved proper brexit. we achieved proper we haven't achieved a proper agreement on northern ireland. we able control we haven't been able to control immigration haven't got immigration we still haven't got our fisheries back we our own fisheries back and we still controlled law and order. and what said and the and as what you said and the housing around here, there are houses, thousands and thousands of houses being built and they're being built for local people . they're built for people people. they're built for people moving into the area because london the other cities are london and the other cities are becoming so crowded. well there's some decline, some really big issues there. but i think it be remiss for us not to discuss the issue that has been on the front pages newspapers on the front pages of newspapers for last days, that of for the last five days, that of the position of a certain bbc sports presenter . roger, what do sports presenter. roger, what do you make of gary lineker? well, gary lineker is undoubtedly

using his position on match of the day to forward beliefs. the day to forward his beliefs. and fine in a way. but and that's fine in a way. but he's saying that he's giving people a voice who haven't got a voice. well, those millions of people out there haven't got a voice. he's been very selective on who he gives a voice to. and there people waiting there are loads people waiting for operations nhs. for operations on the nhs. people for houses who people wait for houses who haven't a voice. so i think haven't got a voice. so i think it's, you know, very selective of him and i wonder if it's about gary lineker rather than anything else . course this anything else. of course this conversation all started with the new illegal migration bill derby. you came to this country legally, ten years old, some time ago . i only, only tell you, time ago. i only, only tell you, as i seen what you make of it all, i with what roger said about. all, i with what roger said about . lineker firstly, he about. lineker firstly, he wouldn't have the platform. if he wasn't working the bbc and didn't have that exposure . so didn't have that exposure. so whatever he claims , i think that whatever he claims, i think that he's he's , you know, fooling us

he's he's, you know, fooling us all. but yes, i came here with my parents didn't have a say in the matter but i was brought here by my parents and i love it love this country. we've integrated. we were usually first asians in the road, you know , we worked all our lives, know, we worked all our lives, contributed to the system and i don't understand why people just think they can roll up on a beach and get everything given to them . there are legal routes. to them. there are legal routes. i'm sorry, people who say let's develop legal routes. well, there are legal routes. i came through an illegal route and others have so , you know, i others have so, you know, i disagree with what's going on on our coastline. yeah, i suppose it's about that. but that legal process sticking by the of this country. but what you make of it all it's all about lineker he's in a dispute with the hmrc about millions of pounds of tax and i think he's trying to prove he's independent of the bbc, which will help him in his tax dispute and he's not person that i admire, admire his footballing, but i avoid watching him on the

bbc , let's put it that way. and bbc, let's put it that way. and i don't buy his chris sala well, on that note , let's turn back to on that note, let's turn back to you, camilla. we will have plenty more discussion from the people's panel a little bit later in the show. you thank you very much for that, tom. just to say, i think mr. lineker may disagree with some the analysis there of his tax affairs. so we do to point that he do need to point out that he denies wrongdoing when it denies any wrongdoing when it comes his relationship with comes to his relationship with hmrc next week. we're going to be for the people's be in york for the people's panel to apply. go to panel to apply. please go to gbnews.uk panel. let's gbnews.uk slash panel. let's bnng gbnews.uk slash panel. let's bring guest bring in my next guest now, robert buckland. sir robert buckland, shall his proper buckland, i shall use his proper title justice title is the former justice secretary. also the tory mp for swindon south. robert, lovely to see morning . you're the see you this morning. you're the perfect to here talk perfect person to here talk about some of the legality , about some of the legality, first of of this illegal first of all, of this illegal immigration bill, lord sumption, who we're having on a little later in the show, said in his judgement in 2013, it is an international obligation of the uk under article 46.1 of the convention to abide by the decisions of the echr in any

case to which it is a party. this obligation is in terms can we clarify? can the hl block these plans if there is a case involving the united kingdom ? involving the united kingdom? those remarks of lord assumptions are absolutely right. if it is caselaw, that doesn't involve the united kingdom. it's not binding. what happened very recently too. it's of course, controversy was that there was a decision made by a judge in strasbourg to, in effect, hold up the policy on rwanda . it was a particular rwanda. it was a particular procedure that's a new one that we didn't have a chance to make representations upon. and you know, frankly, i would question bafis know, frankly, i would question basis of it. however very different from saying that there is some overwhelming deep problem here related to our membership of the convention . membership of the convention. i'm sorry, but i don't see the evidence here that suggests that withdrawal from the convention will change the nature of this problem .we'll will change the nature of this problem . we'll still have problem. we'll still have domestic laws , domestic judges, domestic laws, domestic judges, rules of fairness have to apply

when people applications for asylum . what we've prided asylum. what we've prided ourselves on, that's the english rule of law system. so i don't think the convention, european convention is right target here. the problem here is that this is an issue that affects all the countries of western europe . countries of western europe. none of us are really coming together to set to set limits and to try and control the way in which people are either being exploited or choosing to come here via illegal means. exploited or choosing to come here via illegal means . rishi here via illegal means. rishi sunak emmanuel macron tried to come together in the weeks i've obviously set aside a huge amount of money half a billion pounds on a new detention. more patrols do . you have faith in patrols do. you have faith in that? i think gb views and listeners will be saying, well, hang on, we've given the french, hundreds of millions. what the hell they with it? hell have they done with it? yeah, i think the money yeah, well, i think the money has been spent indeed on detention and more detention centres and more provision, know, that's provision, but you know, that's like trying just fill like sort of trying just fill a hole while at same time the hole while at the same time the bottom of the hole is still

developing. the real here is a lack, i think, of common purpose amongst the countries of western you have to say, hold on, we are always going to be able welcome asylum seekers but we do need to plan for the future and you know not being not knowing the numbers, not having any on that of course, is strange on schools, hospitals, all the pubuc schools, hospitals, all the public services and indeed housing, which course they tend to focus . and then we did have a to focus. and then we did have a cap, didn't we on immigration some time ago. and then the tories abandoned was a tories abandoned it. was that a mistake? well, i think confusing two things i mean there's two things here. i mean there's general which you general migration, which you know, we control via a visa process. we've got advice , you process. we've got advice, you know, where where we have jobs shortages. and i think it's right that , for example, right that, for example, in health areas do health and other areas do recruit to come to this recruit people to come to this country help us run our country to help us run our services . but when talk about services. but when we talk about asylum seeking an immigrant on that side of immigration, that's a issue . and think a different issue. and i think that government right to that the government is right to say, a quota say, let's set a quota parliament every year so we can

then plan a local government and local authorities can plan ahead . but at the same time, that sort approach is only going to work if we do open up some more safely routes internationally to allow more applications to be made from abroad . at the moment, made from abroad. at the moment, you know, the only schemes are hong is great. ukraine hong kong is great. ukraine absolutely right . africa, absolutely right. africa, afghanistan, all understand. afghanistan, we all understand. but other of but there's no other way of making not making an application. i'm not saying open the doors a little bit. you're all sort of sounding a lineker . and you're a bit like lineker. and you're right. well, for conservative minister, i am absolutely against open door policy. i mean, think this false mean, i think this false juxtaposition between comparing, you know what the government is doing to 1930, germany which i think entirely in openness, think is entirely in openness, talk about the. you've lost the argument. then this other argument. and then this other argument. and then this other argument against argument that if you against your of open doors, your is in favour of open doors, that's what we should be that's bogus. what we should be talking about is increasing safe and legal routes, but to a certain quota, a certain and i think if all the of western europe agreed that that would be progress. you know , unrealistic. progress. you know, unrealistic. yeah i think we're far away from

an agreement. you having a row with france, france and italy having a row about the same thing. and unlike in ukraine, where we came together to challenge a bully and an illegal invasion and we're failing, i think as as a political leadership in europe to come together to solve this problem . together to solve this problem. another row seems to be brewing in the tory about children and this bill and priti patel has come out today to newspapers have covered it there's concern actually we may then see return to children both being detained and deported . you must be very and deported. you must be very uncomfortable with that. i am. and i've said so publicly in the newspapers as well, i agree with pretty on this. it's been our policy as a government not to treat children in that inhumane way. now absolutely understand thatis way. now absolutely understand that is concern that somehow children and women are being used as a sort of in a way in for unscrupulous people to come into this country. but, you know , think we've really got to think carefully before using detention centres or or, you

know, places of incarceration for children . i just don't think for children. i just don't think that's right. and i hope that in the course of the debate, we can look at that and refine the government said when they announced this bill that children would be exempt from it. we are believing what it. so we are not believing what they're well, i think they're saying. well, i think some be due to the some of it might be due to the drafting. think i think we drafting. i think i think we need to look very carefully as parliament exactly what parliament in exactly what they're saying. it was very clear and i think so, clear to me, and i think so, that you have to have exemptions for children and a very ill if you have total blanket policy you have a total blanket policy . any court is going to . i think any court is going to have with that. and have a problem with that. and are exemptions in there, which is the government is is why the government is confident that they are working within international law obugafions. within international law obligations . on to lineker. what obligations. on to lineker. what should happen to him shouldn't he just stand down now and move on? clearly he can't keep his views himself and he's contravened impartiality at the bbc. it's a matter for him it is important. look, i think personally i disagree with the way he said. as i've just said. i think as a private citizen, he's entitled express his

he's entitled to express his views. in a in country views. we live in a in a country of free speech and untrammelled, free speech. however much we might disagree about free speech. him speech. i this is about him breaching contract. well, as breaching his contract. well, as i say, if i haven't read the terms of his contract, if there are contractual issues the are contractual issues with the bbc, to sort that out bbc, he's got to sort that out with employer. is a. with his employer. he is a. should at the bbc be should somebody at the bbc be undermined and government should somebody at the bbc be underrliked and government should somebody at the bbc be underrlike lhisli’id government should somebody at the bbc be underrlike this isi government should somebody at the bbc be underrlike this is notvernment should somebody at the bbc be underrlike this is not great ent policy like this is not great for tories. you've got loads for the tories. you've got loads of people on twitter in of people piling on twitter in support, holding up support, people holding up banners at football stadia doesn't really help the government in trying to crack down on a really difficult problem. does think he problem. how does he think he is? think that it's best for is? i think that it's best for politicians me to stop piling in. let the bbc sort out what is an employee issue, employee issue , and then deal with it in issue, and then deal with it in that way. and we should respect the judgement of the bbc. i think the prime minister is right about this. let's not wade into row . you know, will into this row. you know, i will defend everybody's right. free speech, even though i might disagree that includes disagree it. and that includes mr. think mr. lineker. but i really think this is taking the focus away from the sort of serious

discussion we just had about the detail of these policies. let's just very quickly move on to joanna simpson , the tragic case joanna simpson, the tragic case of the wife that was killed by robert now, know her robert brown. now, i know her mother one of your mother is one of your constituents. you got in constituents. have you got in your dominic raab, your successor, dominic raab, preventing this man being automatically released from prison ? yes. well, leigh, prison? yes. well, leigh, campaigner hetty knapton is my constituents and. diana parks is of course, the mother of her great friend joanna. i do. i am very pleased that the government and ministers have met the campaigners and i think that whilst we can't prejudge what the final decision is, i think the final decision is, i think the government is looking at the powers that i introduced to. thank you, robert. we'll be back in a.

break coming up , break coming up, going break coming up , going to be speaking coming up, going to be speaking to jonathan sumption, the leading lockdown critic once referred as the brain of britain. he's going to give me his take on the lockdown files. i'll speaking to david i'll also be speaking to david greene theresa may's deputy pm, greene, theresa may's deputy pm, on migration bill. on the illegal migration bill. but first, here's the news headunes but first, here's the news headlines with anderson . thanks,

headlines with anderson. thanks, camilla. fast approaching 10:01. he's the latest . gary lineker's he's the latest. gary lineker's eldest son, george, has told the sunday mirror he thinks his dad will return to match of the day, but he won't back down on his word. it comes after the bbc was forced broadcast the show without commentary or studio punditry last night. broadcasters have boycotted the channel after the former footballer was stood down over a tweet. criticising the government's migration policy, former bbc roger bolton says the controversy is diverting attention away from the real issue. it's this argument what issue. it's this argument what is impartiality and who must be impartial? that is a wider question, of course. the other thing that's happening here is the political parties, particularly the government governing parties , see this as a governing parties, see this as a wonderful opportunity, the culture create trouble culture wars, to create trouble and divert attention from the fundamental issue here, which is illegal immigration , which is illegal immigration, which is extraordinarily difficult to deal with. is flying to the

united states today to discuss orcas defence deal between uk, us and australia . it's hoped us and australia. it's hoped that after a summit with president biden, the australian premier will announce the purchase of british nuclear powered submarines . while in the powered submarines. while in the us mr. sunak expected to reveal a defence foreign policy update in the wake russia's invasion of ukraine. the chancellor is set to crack down on pre—payment when he announces his spring budget from july. pay as you customers will no longer be charged more to receive their energy. the treasury says the change will save more than 4 million households £45 a year. the health secretary has junior doctors failing to call off strike action on monday. writing in the telegraph, steve barclay described 72 hour walkout as incredibly disappointing. the british medical association has described mr. barclay's recent offer to as a feeble attempt to

stall us a is expected to have the biggest impact any industrial action by health since december affecting . a&e, since december affecting. a&e, cancer care . and a 29 year old cancer care. and a 29 year old man has been arrested on suspicion of terrorism offences after a woman was stabbed outside a leisure centre in cheltenham . the woman sustained cheltenham. the woman sustained injuries but is in a stable in hospital. man is currently being questioned by counter—terror officers and the final preparations are underway for one of the biggest nights in hollywood as celebrities prepare for the 95th oscar awards with british and irish talent hoping for a win , the banshees of in for a win, the banshees of in a sheer has become the most oscar nominated irish film ever, getting nine nominations. meanwhile british actor bill nighy is up for best actor for his role in the movie living and actress andrea riseborough is nominated for best actress in the film. two leslie on tv,

online and on debut, plus , this online and on debut, plus, this is gb news. back now to camilla tominey . tominey. welcome back to the camilla tominey show with me, camilla tominey show with me, camilla tominey will be speaking to damian green, the former deputy prime minister, in just a moment. the migration bill, gary lineker, other issues have lineker, other issues that have dominated this dominated the papers this weekend. first, i'm by lord weekend. but first, i'm by lord jonathan sumption, retired supreme court justice and one of the country's lost the country's fiercest lost lockdown now, lockdown critics. now, lord sumption wrote in the telegraph yesterday that matt hancock's leaked whatsapp messages or quotes throw a harsh light on those involved there narcissism , their superficiality , their , their superficiality, their hypocrisies, great and small . hypocrisies, great and small. above all they show in embarrassing detail how completely power corrupts who have it. do you think matt hancock's behaviour was one of

the worst abuses of power that we've witnessed in recent british political history? well it wasn't abuse of power abuses of power are unfortunately very frequent . of power are unfortunately very frequent. i'm not going to compare one with the other. i prefer to do without any of them. but at the same at the same time, they cast him and other ministers in a terrible light. there's this notion of government via whatsapp with the normal structure of government gone completely out of the window kneejerk decision making , public policy making made on the hoof. i mean, the way i was there, transparency and accountability if it wasn't for these lockdown files, we'll never have known some of the decision behind on precedent measures that affect our lives and liberties . yes, i mean, and liberties. yes, i mean, whatever you think about lockdowns and it's a controversial pursuit. and i realise that not everyone's going to agree with my position that. but whatever your view about the lockdowns themselves , about the lockdowns themselves, what these files show is the

complete disorganisation of the governmental process . this is governmental process. this is classically a failure of government . the government took government. the government took the original lockdown decision against, the recorded advice of at the time the whole government and to some extent sage then moved on to propaganda mode and set about frightening people, partly in to justify that decision and partly in order to force compliance as the result has been catastrophic collateral . but whether you agree with or not, the process was seriously de facto to watch it and vote on what it should have involved. any rate, it was somebody to take a grip on the whole problem in the raj, not just the clinical problem, not just the infection problem, but the economic problems , the economic problems, the educational problems, the social, the problems of mental health. and that never happened . i describe in article matt hancock as a fanatic because my

definition of a fanatic is that somebody who has only got room for one idea in his head at any one time and that's unfortunately characterised the whole of matt hancock's approach to this. he swatted away any kind of dissent he refused to consider the examples of countries like sweden, which had managed to serious results without these drastic measures . without these drastic measures. he behaves , in a way towards he behaves, in a way towards dissenters like the unfortunate mp who , nearly has his mp who, nearly has his disability club in the constituency cancelled because he threatened to vote against the tier system. this is an appalling way to conduct government. whether you agree with the outcome or not. the problem really is that you cannot have a system in which people are only looking . one people are only looking. one aspect of the problem all public is pluses and minuses. and you

have to look at all of them. you cannot simply just look at half the problem and hope to solve it that way . and the blame i would that way. and the blame i would put not just on matt hancock but on the prime because it's true. yes. i was going to ask you about boris johnson. i yes. i was going to ask you about borisjohnson. i mean, yes. i was going to ask you about boris johnson. i mean, we need to it's about a lack of grip. how would you analyse his behaviour? the real problem is when you've got half a dozen different strands, some educational, some clinical and so on, you need somebody to draw those friends together and decide on the priorities and how you're going reconcile these things and how you're going to perhaps relax some priorities in order to be to give some effect to others. now, that is classically the role of the prime minister and what the lockdown files suggests is that in many ways boris johnson's heart was in the right. he does seem to have had an idea of the serious economic and social damage that was done by lockdowns. he does seem to have felt that there were times when

we should have relaxed the lockdown much sooner . but he lockdown much sooner. but he never really the courage of his convictions . he was because he convictions. he was because he never really down to the details of the problem. he was too easily pushed about by advisers who had an agenda which was based almost entirely on public relations . and one of the things relations. and one of the things that the lockdown files very clearly show is that rather than following the essentially the government followed what it thought the public wanted . now, thought the public wanted. now, in some context that's perfectly , but you have occasions when statesmanship consists in saying to the public, look , this is to the public, look, this is what you are asking for is a quick patch . the long term quick patch. the long term consequences will be disastrous. that's something that a statesman ought to be do. and bofis statesman ought to be do. and boris johnson was completely incapable of doing it. so he was always being pushed back into the box by his advisers. pushed

back into the shape that they wanted to be in. and in the end , nobody was in. of the most important aspect of the pandemic, which was to decide how we are going to compromise between the health priorities , between the health priorities, the economic priorities and the other that we should really be caring about a lot. sumption you also describe the cabinet, a cabinet of mediocrity . can you cabinet of mediocrity. can you expand on that? do you think that ministers these days just simply aren't up to scratch . simply aren't up to scratch. well, i do think that i did make it clear that i did. i thought that there were exceptions to. i mean, i think that sunak and gove , who took opposite views gove, who took opposite views and it happens on the lockdown, are extremely talented individuals who would have an honourable place in any cabinet . but the problem about the cabinet as a whole is that it's been chosen primarily for its unconditional loyalty to boris johnson. and if you look back historically, you really have to

go back to the early 1930s to find a cabinet. so devoid of talent as this one. i don't actually think that the quality of politicians has gone down because i think that something like two thirds of empty have always been blockheads , but the always been blockheads, but the great art of government is to choose ministers from the other , from the others who are not blockheads . there are lots of blockheads. there are lots of talented people . yes. in talented people. yes. in politics, they're not in the cabinet that what they said kept . no. but then it sounds like you don't have much faith that so—called lessons have been learned from this pandemic. i mean, we can look to sweden. we now hear from the chancellor, jeremy hunt, you know, jeremy hunt, who, as you know, was lockdown hawk, praising was a lockdown hawk, praising sweden response . i mean, sweden for its response. i mean, how we handle pandemics, do how will we handle pandemics, do you think any better. well i certainly hope so. i mean , one certainly hope so. i mean, one of the problems in this area is it's very difficult when you have inflicted so much damage on a society to stand up and say,

okay , we now realise it was okay, we now realise it was a mistake , but that's humanly very mistake, but that's humanly very difficult to do. but i think it's actually unlikely , in spite it's actually unlikely, in spite of the fact that the people are saying, okay, we did the right thing. i think it's unlikely they're going to do it again. even in comparable circumstances, because i think we've learnt an awful lot of detail about what was actually obvious the outset. but we now have chapter and verse to show quite how much damage this has done. example to cancer done. for example to cancer sufferers. so people who saw a huge spike in dementia , two huge spike in dementia, two children in particular, almost totally invulnerable themselves , but cooped up inside, deprived of education. some of them will actually never. some of them will. but, you know, this is this is a serious catastrophe in the making? and i think people are beginning to understand that. i doubt it'll happen again . lord sumption, i'll be intrigued to know what your thinking is . the gary lineker thinking is. the gary lineker row . obviously, you may also row. obviously, you may also have a view on the illegal

immigration bill. what's your reaction to that story ? reaction to that story? dominating the headlines this morning ? i'm not going to give morning? i'm not going to give you reaction on this because . i you reaction on this because. i don't think i should be sounding off on things without pretty carefully understanding them. and haven't got properly and i haven't got properly burned up on that subject . burned up on that subject. jemmy, lineker or the immigration bill in itself by the two closely related , but the two closely related, but then perhaps you have an opinion on whether the echr are going to block the legislation that's to be put before the house of commons tomorrow and whether it makes any difference. i mean, was all of this talk about leaving the echr, what's your reaction ? the echr can't block reaction? the echr can't block uk legislation, all that can do is to say this is inconsistent with the convention and in some cases it can award damages in favour of petitioners against the government for doing that, but it can't actually the legislation and if the legislation and if the legislation is passed , the legislation is passed, the judges in the uk will be bound to follow the legislation. even

if it's inconsistent with the convention . but do you agree? convention. but do you agree? finally, lord sumption , with finally, lord sumption, with this idea that human rights lawyers and other lawyers i ask you as a lawyer, have been making it very difficult the government to land any of these policies comes to policies when it comes to controlling these 45,000 people who keep on landing on british and dinghies. who keep on landing on british and dinghies . they obviously and dinghies. they obviously have been making it difficult for the government's . but i for the government's. but i don't think that one is entitled to complain if people make use of the law. if you don't , the of the law. if you don't, the way that they're making use of the law, then you need to change the law, then you need to change the law, then you need to change the law rather than criticise those who are doing their duty in allowing people to argue their side of the case. spoken a true legal man. thank you very much indeed, lord sumption, for joining me this morning. if you've got a view on that we've discussed in the show, please do get in touch. you know, the email address by now. let me repeat it. it's gb views at gbnews.uk . be delighted hear gbnews.uk. be delighted to hear from about what you of from you about what you of the clinical trial make of clinical trial what you make of what sumption has said

what lord sumption has just said there lockdown absolutely there about lockdown absolutely scathing hancock and scathing about matt hancock and indeed who indeed the cabinet who he described worst since the described as the worst since the 19305. described as the worst since the 1930s. let's speak now to 1930s. well, let's speak now to somebody who was in a different cabinet under may. cabinet under theresa may. damian was former deputy damian green was former deputy pm and administration minister under david cameron. he's also obviously the mp for ashford in kent. we'll get onto that just a minute. but damian, thanks for joining me. in principle, you support this immigration bill. i believe even though there is talk perhaps among your own conservative one nation caucus of dissent in the ranks. conservative one nation caucus of dissent in the ranks . yeah, of dissent in the ranks. yeah, i mean, there isn't dissent in the ranks. i can say with some authority. chair of the one nafion authority. chair of the one nation caucus, but i do support this bill and. i think having proper control of illegal immigration is extremely important, particularly as a one nafion important, particularly as a one nation conservative, because of the things we believe in is a society that is bound together .

society that is bound together. and if people think that a large of other people are breaking the law and are allowed to get away it, then that actually damages coherence in society and with nasty effects. i can remember when i was shadow immigration minister back in the blair brown years when we did have very, very and uncontrolled immigration. very and uncontrolled immigration . one of the side immigration. one of the side effects was the growth of extremely unpleasant far right parties like the bnp and i absolutely don't want to see that kind of thing coming back into british politics. and yet we have the likes of gary lineker basically making out that moderate tories like and the people in the one nation group are effectively like behaving as they did in the 1930. what's your reaction to that ? well i 1930. what's your reaction to that? well i think on the 1930. what's your reaction to that ? well i think on the whole, that? well i think on the whole, anyone who starts invoking the and comparing democratic politicians of any kind to them doesn't have much of an argument

that that's a sort of absolute truth. so the of that now notorious tweet was was clearly pretty foolish and quite offensive. suella braverman herself has made the point that herself has made the point that her husband is jewish, so she has family members who were killed by the. so people use that kind of language freely or easily . should lineker down easily. should lineker down tomorrow then? obviously he's boycott it. this show fellow sports pundits have followed suit. he's got a meeting . the suit. he's got a meeting. the bbc director general, tim davie, we understand in the morning, should he just tender his resignation if he can't be impartial ? resignation if he can't be impartial? well, it's not for me to take. bbc management's decisions for them all. still less gary lineker is decision. you might have an opinion the point that i find it completely that in a week where we've had this hugely important bill, we've had the best summit, a

british prime minister has had with the french since brexit. we've we've got the prime minister flying out to america to a hugely important deal, a defence deal, and we've the budget coming up on wednesday . budget coming up on wednesday. what we're all obsessed with is gary lineker, his tweets, i think this is one of those occasions where in a years time we'll all look back think we'll all look back and think well, that mad weekend well, what was that mad weekend where thing anyone well, what was that mad weekend where about thing anyone well, what was that mad weekend where about garyiing anyone well, what was that mad weekend where about gary linekerone well, what was that mad weekend where about gary lineker and cared about gary lineker and whether they were commentators on match of the day that was a bit weird, wasn't it ? it was bit weird, wasn't it? it was a bit weird, wasn't it? it was a bit weird. what theresa may, you're conservative you're close conservative colleague make of the illegal immigration bill. do you think damian damian ? i don't know. i damian damian? i don't know. i haven't spoken to her about it and she wasn't she wasn't there for the statement that the prime minister made last week and for my long and deep knowledge of theresa, the last thing she would want other people trying to express her views on her behalf. i'm sure she she will make her views known . and make her views known. and knowing theresa, she will probably it in parliament if she

wants to, because that's what she tends to do. she takes parliament very seriously. she makes speeches and in the house of commons i haven't spoken to her about it, so it would be unfair me to try and sum up her views . no fair enough. it was views. no fair enough. it was only because she was slightly conspicuous by her absence as a former minister and a former prime minister and also a home secretary. obviously quite former prime minister and also a h few secretary. obviously quite former prime minister and also a h few peopleiry. obviously quite former prime minister and also a h few people watching jsly quite former prime minister and also a h few people watching and quite a few people watching and listening interview will listening to this interview will say, you are say, well, look, you are immigration minister. back in the may the day. theresa may was in charge of this. you've had charge of all this. you've had 30 years and you still haven't resolve issue . immigration resolve this issue. immigration did come down when theresa secretary and i was immigration minister . we secretary and i was immigration minister. we never got secretary and i was immigration minister . we never got down secretary and i was immigration minister. we never got down . to minister. we never got down. to the 100,000 target that we'd set. but we were we were on the way. and i think people gave the government credit for that. and what was interesting those what was interesting in those days have the small boats days didn't have the small boats problem. in those problem. people in those days were trying across in were trying to come across in the lorries and did by the backs of lorries and did by and large stop that and. we did it by co—operation. the french

in that week we paid for a lot of x—ray equipment effectively, which they installed at the tunnelin which they installed at the tunnel in calais, and that stopped it so eventually people started trying small boats which are of course much more dangerous. that's why i think the key to this is not just the legislation which is legislation which i think is good but also the deal that the prime minister signed with the french on friday, because having 500 extra french police at the on the shore and this new detention centre in france, that will make a real difference , will make a real difference, will make a real difference, will make a real difference, will make a real practical difference on the ground. because if we can stop getting in the boats on the first place, that's a significant step forward , although people forward, although people watching and listening to this interview might think it's just more money for nothing. i mean, we've given french hundreds of millions and yet. we've seen this exponential rise, people arriving small boats , arriving here by small boats, 45,000 last year. the money to have been for nothing . it hasn't have been for nothing. it hasn't been for nothing . agree that been for nothing. agree that clearly the if you like the

demand the number people trying to get across has increased massively. the french are at the moment stopping about 50% of the boats that come across. now, obviously we want them to do is stop 100% of the boats because lying behind this whole policy is deterring us. if you think this route is not going to work, then you will not shell money to these terrible people traffickers who do what they are, the criminal gangs that are running it in the first place. and that's why returns are so important as well. we have started returning. people to albania. that was a third of the numbers last year and think numbers last year and i think everyone who having paid thousands pounds euros goes thousands of pounds euros goes back to albania and is sort of moping around their local bar saying, well, i spent all this money and now i'm back here. that will have a huge deterrent effect. so i think the additional french police is an extra deterrent and that actually that's the long term way of stopping this this uncontrolled illegally . you

uncontrolled illegally. you mentioned that it's the budget on wednesday, there's been a report in the telegraph this morning talking about the fact that blue wall seats particularly , ali, are opposed particularly, ali, are opposed to this hike corporation tax. what's view we've just come out of a pandemic. what's view we've just come out of a pandemic . you've got small of a pandemic. you've got small and medium sized businesses , and medium sized businesses, very much opposed to it. we've talk of us companies pulling out of the uk because it's no longer seen being as competitive . seen as being as competitive. should corporation tax rise to 26. damian green . well, in an 26. damian green. well, in an ideal not of course i don't know how much, if any , money the how much, if any, money the chancellor has to, to play with as it were, to say how can i use this money? i think my first priority, if , if he this money? i think my first priority, if, if he has got any, would be to extend relief on pnces would be to extend relief on prices for those groups that need it. i think that's very but the second would absolutely be business taxes and the approach to business generally. i want this to be a budget for growth

and a budget to give us hope. and if the chancellor can afford socially business tax by the full amount . well i mean it's full amount. well i mean it's a question of whether he can afford to or not. i think at the root this we need to keep beanng root this we need to keep bearing down on inflation. the chancellor of the exchequer needs to be responsible with the public. learnt that public. we've learnt that very painfully the few painfully over the past few months, so that's his first duty within that i would very much like see as as a budget for like to see as as a budget for and that that involves things to help business not just lower taxation but other on infrastructure, on support for those sectors where we're particularly strong is actually goodin particularly strong is actually good in this country we need to be good and strong if . we're be good and strong if. we're going to thrive through the century like artificial is some suggestions that he's got 166 billion more fiscal headroom than he? but anyway, moving on to my final question now. we know about your selection and are you a victim of a boris johnson coup? what's happened

here, david? and what are you going to do next? i think . the going to do next? i think. the meeting where i didn't get selected for the world of kent bofis selected for the world of kent boris johnson wasn't mentioned that was a of russia. do you blame him was put on by by journalist everyone followed up. no don't i don't think it had much to do that it was it was the people at the meeting expressed discontent with the system where one name was put in front of them and ask what i'm going to do next. i'm going to apply for the other half of my current seat, the assured seat . current seat, the assured seat. and try and get selected for that. and try and get selected for that . all right. well, we wish that. all right. well, we wish you all very best with that. thank you so much for joining you all very best with that. thank you so much forjoining me this morning. damian green. thank you . thank you. now, let's thank you. thank you. now, let's see what tom harwood and our political make of all that. tom harwood is in crawley. what do the people think? what do they make of what i discussed? robert buckland and indeed damian and

lord just now ? yes. so lord sumption just now? yes. so much to get stuck in that, camilla. but i'm one moment of note. i think is when damian green mentioned that sort of looking back at this perhaps a year from now will this all seem like a bit of a mad weekend where people were talking about gary lineker rather than the rather than the defence pact that the prime minister is going off to america to a that all the bigger issues and i think that was there was some general agreement from all people's panel today. richard, what did you that? well, it is you make of that? well, it is undoubtedly distraction. undoubtedly to distraction. i wonder it's really, you wonder whether it's really, you know, they just don't know, whether they just don't want to talk about those other issues. but very interesting to see green talking about the budget and saying that they want to for growth budget. but to go for growth budget. but going to truss, they're going back to liz truss, they're only, know, suddenly it only, you know, suddenly it seems parties seems like almost all parties are growth now. i are talking about growth now. i mean, what do you make ? i have mean, what do you make? i have to say , talking about the growth to say, talking about the growth budget and most comments writers

are now actually that maybe liz truss is plans although delivered them very awkwardly and rather too quickly might have been the way to go . she was have been the way to go. she was all about growth reducing , all about growth reducing, taxes, etc. and i do . they would taxes, etc. and i do. they would cut the corporation tax or certainly not increase it by 6. i think that would be very, very backward step and it would incentivise people from, you know, setting businesses, etc. bob there was a moment in that a lord sumption interview where he echoed comments that you made in the in the first section of this people's battle about the lack of quality of our politicians today. yeah said that the whole cabinet was well dare i say i can't say what he said or what he thought . yeah. it's he thought. yeah. it's absolutely terrible. and he also said that there were people outside the cabinet who should be brought by people like, you know, dare say it, iain duncan smith, who when you hear him speak nowadays, he's speaks far

more authoritatively. they're ever used to when he was leader of the party. edwards of the party. john edwards always been on the on the fringes and a lot people think he speaks a of sense. but he speaks a lot of sense. but these people are ignored , these people are ignored, especially if weren't supporters of ricky regime when he when he became leader by, so to speak. now, there was some general murmurs of agreement when lord sumption was talking about the lack of quality. roger do you think that politicians have gone down recently? oh, i don't think so. i think that they've always been pretty low. you know one way another. you look back way or another. if you look back over the years. but the interesting thing is that as a cabinet, you don't with, you cabinet, if you don't with, you know, minister, the prime know, the minister, the prime minister, basically. minister, your help basically. so going to be full so it's always going to be full of that's big of yasmin. that's the big problem there. there aren't any dissenters they're dissenters because they're covering jobs. they're covering their jobs. they're going their job that going to lose their job that push them out the back door. so that whole system really just surrounding people surrounding yourself with people who you i think is who agree with you i think is flawed . and course, coming . flawed. and of course, coming. oh, sorry, bob. did you want to get in there? no i was just

agreeing, that's all. i think it's i have to say that when accuse the country of being racist , the tory party of being racist, the tory party of being all kinds of things, look at the cabinet now it's the most diverse from . boris diverse cabinet from. boris johnson to rishi now the most diverse cabinet we've ever had . diverse cabinet we've ever had. and whereas the labour party's female leader, you know, it's crazy and i think that we should just stop this and just accept people for what they are and their talents and appoint people on whether they were you, whether good or not. now whether they're good or not. now of was also of course, there was also discussion about the echr and whether or not judges going whether or not judges are going to cert up with the new to get cert up with the new illegal migration bill. roger, what do you think is going to happen over the next couple of months. is the government going to get stuck? yes, they are, because the lawyers love it, the lawyers are going to kick one around forever because the lord sumption would know about the legal and how legal fees are available and how long they can push this thing around. courts and a way

around. the courts and a way that to me is very strange thing. he said that the echr will not override all of the home made laws if you like so in that sense it's a waste time the beginning, isn't it? they're just going to come out with a judgement. it's not going to be binding, but it will take up a lot of time and distract and all the time more people are coming over. the time more people are coming over . bob, do the time more people are coming over. bob, do you think that this a legal migration will actually sort of get off the ground? will it work ? well, ground? will it work? well, they've promised it for years from the various home secretaries to have come unstuck on it . i, john secretaries to have come unstuck on it. i, john i can't remember his name, george on. the labour home secretary said it wasn't fit for purpose and they just don't seem to be able to get it through. they talk a lot . tony through. they talk a lot. tony blair going back many years. he about marching hooligans up to cash dispensers and, all that sort of thing so i don't think they'll get it through. well, that's all we have time for the

people's panel. so back you . people's panel. so back to you. but some fascinating but some really fascinating ideas reach quite ideas that don't reach quite work. tom, thank you very much . work. tom, thank you very much. a great speaking so much . a great panel speaking so much. this what we love about gp is this is what we love about gp is a listener speaking more sense at times than those actually elected to power. now next week we're to be in york. so if we're going to be in york. so if you speak sense and you'd like to speak sense on the panel, please apply gbnews.uk forward slash somebody else slash panel. now somebody else who of sense and who speaks a lot of sense and he's be more of it at he's going to be more of it at 11:00 is michael portillo , gp 11:00 is michael portillo, gp news presenter and former defence what do defence secretary. now what do you of what have discussed you of what we have discussed michael. michael good michael. michael well, good morning . well, obviously i have morning. well, obviously i have a very history with the bbc a very long history with the bbc and i've not always thought that the management brilliant, but i'm slightly dismayed today by the attacks on bbc management mean. i think the bbc management doesn't stand that there's something fundamental and very important stake here, which important at stake here, which is that if we pay a licence fee, which essentially a tax and which is essentially a tax and you you can be carted off you rate, you can be carted off to court if you don't pay it, then there are some obligations

that follow that because everyone it. everyone is forced to pay it. therefore, bbc really does therefore, the bbc really does need to be impartial. i mean, thatis need to be impartial. i mean, that is an important and gary lineker does represent the bbc whether he to or not and i think been very inflexible . i think been very inflexible. i think he's been very inconsiderate . i he's been very inconsiderate. i don't think he is considering the impact that he is having on the impact that he is having on the beloved bbc because actually the beloved bbc because actually the people who will absolutely relish this role that lineker has caused in my view are the right of the conservative. the people who don't like bbc at all because is really calling into question the survival of the licence fee. and lineker is responsible for that question being so much in focus morning . being so much in focus morning. but it's interesting, isn't it? michael i mean, i was always intrigued by your view because you have to be quite careful. you've done programmes on rand and other things for the bbc and, yet at the same time you are former very senior tory,

are a former very senior tory, so you have to toe that line and it be tricky. clearly it can be tricky. clearly lineker's come on stuck here. but it's all of his career making. you could argue. yeah i've been employed by the bbc many years to give my opinion and i've been asked to do that. iused and i've been asked to do that. i used to be a politician and i think in giving my opinion, i have to be reasonably polite. i mean, it's obviously it's no good at all if i don't have a political opinion because that's what i'm employed to give. on the other hand, i don't think i have to use abusive language about people that agree about people that i don't agree with. and face it, you with. and let's face it, you know , language pretty know, language was pretty abusive and he's not there . he's abusive and he's not there. he's had a long history in politics. he's there because he's had a long history football. so i do think that is showing a lack of consideration to the bbc, which has got the bbc now into very important pickle . and if the bbc important pickle. and if the bbc simply there are hints today they're going to give way, but if they simply give way to lineker, then they will no longer be able to claim that they are an impartial

organisation. i have to say they've given on impartiality as soon as bbc gives up on impartial , the licence fee impartial, the licence fee becomes untenable ? yeah, very . becomes untenable? yeah, very. michael who if you got on today 11 we've got christopher and nigel nelson to political commentator heavyweights of whom are shortly going to join the gb news team . i'll be talking to news team. i'll be talking to tobias ellwood about defence . tobias ellwood about defence. i've got the very interesting man and nigel biggar who's written this very balanced view of the british empire. at first he couldn't find a publisher for , his balanced view and i'll be eating pie and eagles. oh okay. well, enjoy that . thank you very well, enjoy that. thank you very much. we'll stay tuned for another day. i'm going to stay tuned to see michael eat pie. o'neil's now coming up we're going to get the no doubt on the budget this wednesday. news budget this wednesday. gb news is halligan and leading is liam halligan and leading businessman fillmore here.

businessman karen fillmore here. but all coming after the but that's all coming after the with ray addison . 1033. here's with ray addison. 1033. here's the latest . gary lineker, his the latest. gary lineker, his eldest son, george has told the sunday mirror he thinks his dad will return to match the day, but he won't back down on his word. it comes after the bbc was forced to broadcast the show without commentary or studio punditry last night. broadcasters have boycotted the channel after the former footballer was stood down over a tweet criticising the government's migration . rishi government's migration. rishi sunakis government's migration. rishi sunak is flying to the us today to discuss the orcas defence deal between the uk , the united deal between the uk, the united states and australia. hoped that after a summit with president biden, the australian premier will announce the purchase of british nuclear powered submarines while in the us. mr. sunak expected to reveal a defence foreign policy update and the health secretary has

criticised junior doctors for failing to call off strike action monday. writing in the telegraph , barclay described 72 telegraph, barclay described 72 hour walkout as incredibly disappointing. the british medical association has described mr. barclay's recent offer to negotiate as a feeble attempt to stall us. it's expected to have the biggest impact of any industrial action by health unions since december on online and on disney radio. this is .

gb news. welcome back to the camilla tominey show. thank you for joining me. camilla tominey on this sunny sunday. lovely to have company. now the have your company. now the budget wednesday we need budget says on wednesday we need to about it. want to to talk about it. we want to find what should be in it find out what should be in it and going to be in

and what isn't going to be in it. so joined by liam it. so i'm joined by liam halligan gb news is economics and editor lord and business editor and lord karen who's karen bill maurya, who who's founder chairman of cobra founder and chairman of cobra bean founder and chairman of cobra bear, vice president, the confederation british confederation of british industry. see this industry. lovely to see you this morning, let's morning, chaps. right. let's start lord ballymore. start with you, lord ballymore. what jeremy hunt put in what should jeremy hunt put in this budget ? this budget should this budget? this budget should be . what happened last be about. what happened last september with the irrational exuberance of this growth strategy of liz truss and kwarteng? absolutely the right idea to go for growth. but they went it the wrong way. and so people in the markets were looking for some stability, which i think we've now got. but what we now need is a very plan for growth because putting our taxes the highest level in seven years is not the way to generate growth. you advocate some cuts, he says, but he doesn't seem to be indicating this in any of the interviews. he's not just tax cuts, don't put up corporation tax from 19 to 25 for a start, that's one. but just one of many things he shouldn't be doing in terms of putting up taxes. the

thresholds have been frozen. so it's not just companies are being well because being affected as well because if your income tax threshold is frozen and you've got inflation running at 10, that's a huge tax rise as it's a stealth tax. liam we've seen some of his rhetoric , what he's going to announce on wednesday. i can't say i'm not enthused by it. there's really there . is enthused by it. there's really there. is this going to be as safe as houses budget because he wants to put off any tax cuts or anything exciting to the electorate until next year because it's before election? well, this won't be budget of conviction. politicians it will be the treasury's budget . it be the treasury's budget. it will be the office for budget was responsible flaherty's budget. will be very low budget. it will be very low wattage. karins over the next four or five years. camilla given that the top rate of tax is being frozen until 2028 the number of people who are in that top tax is going to double from 4 million to 8 million people. middle managers not particularly

senior teachers , not senior teachers, not particularly senior police . men particularly senior police. men and women will be paying the top of tax. the 40% rate of tax is astonishingly anti aspirational and anti growth in the building behind you that there are now 40 or 50 tory mps. they're part of conservative growth group. they're not just people who are associated with the right all the time, like john redwood, who is obviously a low tax kind of person , a lot of middle of the person, a lot of middle of the road. tories are saying now is not the time put up corporation tax by six percentage points. the first rise in corporation tax since 1974. a lot has changed. september, the treasury a lot less money than they thought would spend and the obe all thought they would spend on the interest on energy subsidy because wholesale energy prices have been less tax receipts have outperformed even the national institute of economic and social research the most. august yes, even handed economic think tank in the land. even are saying

there is a lot of fiscal headroom they could use and they are warning if we do put up the shutters britain is not open for business and corporation tax it will cost a lot of investors. do we believe them? i think they've 166 billion. well, i was i was even as even as an economist maybe because i'm a trained economist. i shy away from because a of that but because it's a of that but conceptually they must be right because the obe hours forecasts have been so wildly out in terms of their there is fiscal headroom currently what you agree with that more the obe are always over over pessimistic . always over over pessimistic. this is the reality there is headroom but we've got a double whammy here. not only is corporation tax going up by almost one third from 19 to 25, they're removing super deduction, which is the incentive to invest for of 130. that was one of britain's great moves to it. and in actually what we've done at the cbi analysis, it shows that people companies took of this not

taking that away and we're saying you've got to have and incentive we're saying okay no 130, even 100% to invest. how many people need say this to them? you know, you've got these us companies pulling out the us companies pulling out of the uk longer seem uk because we no longer seem attractive for investment. astrazeneca that's just astrazeneca i think that's just from ireland, who is speaking to jeremy hunt because he seems to be wanting to do this sort, fix the a routine fiscal discipline at costs . yet everybody at all costs. yet everybody who's a tory and indeed people on all people's panel indeed people watching this right now are , for god's sake, give us are, for god's sake, give us a tax break. the graphics are clear . the tax break. the graphics are clear. the graphics show the obviously the corporation tax on the rise. i admit it was much , the rise. i admit it was much, much lower in the 1970s. but we know what happened to the economy then the tax burden going up to 38% of national income , highest since clement income, highest since clement attlee. absolutely . is 78. attlee. yes, absolutely. is 78. but you must be worried about conservatives reputation for paying conservatives reputation for paying a low tax. and indeed fiscally competent party. it's not the business anymore, is it? what? what what really annoys me

is this country , less than 1% of is this country, less than 1% of the world's population has been the world's population has been the or third largest attract of inward investment in the world. and now we're losing that for being a the best place . invest being a the best place. invest the city of london, one of the top two financial centres in the world. our tax rates have to be attractive. our business environment has to be attractive. otherwise businesses will vote with their feet as we're seeing right on listing, we're seeing right on listing, we lose arm a company for nominal terms became cambridge university cambridge that co cambridge ecosystem is listing in america. yes small firms pay corporation tax . i mean the corporation tax. i mean the bigger firms they will take this in their stride they use some of the investment offsets that i'm sure the chancellor will talk about to take the sting out of this rise in the headline corporation tax. but small and medium sized businesses, they haven't got spare cash to invest. this comes straight off their margin. this means a lot of will close and go of them will close up and go home. just spent home. so we've just spent billions of billions keeping load of businesses during lockdown businesses alive during lockdown and we're going to choke off

and now we're going to choke off lot of those businesses with this squeeze another% of their project while. they project margins while. they don't need it. liam, know you don't need it. liam, i know you interview for interview lord lawson for the telegraph obviously telegraph today. now obviously he's associated somebody who took treasury orthodoxy on. took the treasury orthodoxy on. absolutely gordon ron thinks because liz truss talked about the so—called blob , you know, the so—called blob, you know, being in control. i did a piece today for the telegraph talking about very interesting about the very interesting between overall and between the ifs, the overall and the treasury . there's a degree the treasury. there's a degree of groupthink. there is , a tax of groupthink. there is, a tax ideology from this world. a lot of these top fiscal officials i was at university with graduate work, a lots of economic research , econometrics in my research, econometrics in my twenties . these people, a lot of twenties. these people, a lot of them a of mine people i've known a long time. and there is a monoculture among them. these aren't the kind of people who go into what they do because they want to stand out or come up with other ideas. do need conviction. politicians are turning in history i do turning in history and i do think we are at a turning point in history. and see in history. and i didn't see lord lawson on the south coast last weekend from my planet

normal podcast telegraph normal podcast in the telegraph i in the telegraph i wrote up in the telegraph today talking the today been talking about the energy on gb news is and he doesn't want to see corporation tax and he doesn't want to tax rise and he doesn't want to lay into the government. a word carries huge weight. he's a political icon , a legend. the political icon, a legend. the macroeconomic architect of thatcherism and yet he feels that this government not going to be known for its tax cutting. and he says it's undesirable and counterproductive , that the tax counterproductive, that the tax burden is where it currently is and those words will resonate . and those words will resonate. those words will resonate not believe , orient. and look at believe, orient. and look at look at the government wants to have a renewable strategy. it wants incentivise investment wants to incentivise investment , renewables. we're competing with the america, with the with the with america, with the inflation reduction act. they've got huge for renewables. we've got huge for renewables. we've got small modular reactors, a nuclear strategy we've neglected our nuclear industry . now have our nuclear industry. now have companies like rolls—royce , companies like rolls—royce, which have the ability to set up these modular reactors these small modular reactors that are six, the cost of that are one six, the cost of a giant nuclear plant. they can be put in years. have they put up in five years. have they started building one? no, the government could easily

incentivise that. it should be a priority. urgency. we priority. there's no urgency. we mention though. mention one thing, though. shouldn't care ? this shouldn't we care? and this isn't that isn't something that the political picked up political class picked up on yet. but tomorrow financial markets going be at best markets are going be at best skhfish. markets are going be at best skittish . yes, worse, there skittish. yes, worse, there could be quite a lot of turmoil because a silicon valley bank has come back in the papers bust in america. and there will be a lot of concern about that. and look, if hunt's looking for a defence, why he's being so cautious, he could use the market turmoil we're going to see over the next few days just to say to people like me to say to say to people like me to say to people like karen villa maurya , look, now is not the maurya, look, now is not the time to take any risks at all. and so it may be that if we can get our arms around this banking crisis and the impact crisis in america and the impact on firms here, may be it on tech firms here, it may be it turns to be politically turns out to be politically convenient chinese convenient for the chinese somehow. dangerous is that in general is it the next general i mean, is it the next northern rock or weepy? northern rock or is that weepy? people like me and karen, who with reputations , business and with reputations, business and nationals, have be careful nationals, we have to be careful about flames . this,

about fanning the flames. this, it seems to me that it's not a particularly large bank, but it's a bank where a lot of tech companies that have been invested in with high valuations , as have have have banks . and , as have have have banks. and so for that reason, that could be quite a sharp market adjustment. no, this out of the blue and there are lots of lots of tech companies that have got millions, if not hundreds, millions, if not hundreds, millions that millions of pounds stuck in that bank they to access. they bank that they to access. they can't lose so can't afford to lose that. so that's they've got to do something about that. but i would say, liam, this is a time not to use this as excuse, not to use this as an excuse, but to down on growth on but to double down on growth on a and say, come on, a strategy and say, come on, look, the uk, you can look, come to the uk, you can invest here, we're behind . we've invest here, we're behind. we've got strategy that's. got a growth strategy that's. what's we're what's needed not to say we're going be cautious borrowing. going to be cautious borrowing. borrowing is to go up to borrowing is going to go up to 100. it's almost 100% of gdp. it was 80 means that it national debt about 100. now it went up to 250% after the second world war. we've had the worst global crisis with a followed by the ukraine break and the deficits big enough to look after itself.

so something had to win them. yeah, that and even with this cautious strategy is forecast to be at 100% for five years from now. so this we've got to save businesses. we've to save the jobs. we've got to help consumers. as liam says, energy costs have come down. there is headroom. so now is the time to be bold for the government . be bold for the government. thank much, liam. thank you very much, liam. you'll analysing the budget thank you very much, liam. yolgb analysing the budget thank you very much, liam. yolgb news, lysing the budget thank you very much, liam. yol gb news, won't the budget thank you very much, liam. yol gb news, won't you,)udget thank you very much, liam. yol gb news, won't you, on get for gb news, won't you, on wednesday, i'm very much wednesday, i'm sure very much so. forward to it. thank so. looking forward to it. thank you very for joining me both. now was edward the a? now coming, was edward the a? historian author alexander historian and author alexander lassman through this lassman talks us through this new book, the windsors at war. but a short we'll but here's a short break. we'll be in just a jiffy jiffy.

welcome back . the camilla welcome back. the camilla tominey show, as you can see, look i'm holding up this book. alexander and the author of this great book, the windsor at war,

the windsors war put my teeth in, joins me now. and this is so intriguing because a lot has been said and written about edward the eighth and wallis simpson's sympathy for the characterise . it for me i mean characterise. it for me i mean they were appeasers were they hitler fans and were they affiliated groups like the blackshirts? how far it go? well, i think it's fair to say that wallace wasn't about political, but edward was a massive fan of hitler. i mean, he went to meet him in germany in 1937 and ostensibly was there to see the industrial of the country since first world war. but in fact, he admired hitler huge amounts mean later in life. he even said he never fought. hitler was such a bad chap, right? so so even later in life he didn't acknowledge the foolishness and folly of his links to germany back in the late thirties he was never a man he was into. i mean, he was incredibly foolish and his whole life is folly. but he never acknowledged that. you are quite scathing about him as a person

characterise him for us edward the eighth because you're not flattering in this i'm very scathing about him as a person i think he's probably of the think he's probably one of the worst ever to have been king worst men ever to have been king because was so self—obsessed because he was so self—obsessed and and venal that and so selfish and venal that every single action of his, including the treacherous ones , including the treacherous ones, have to be seen through prism of somebody who believed that there was that he was nothing in life that he didn't deserve didn't merit. didn't deserve and didn't merit. and think i is that and do you think i mean, is that what faints when they what everybody faints when they become i mean, the become king? i mean, under the surface, genuinely, that you think whatever you think you can do whatever you like? he certainly like? because he certainly did. and you all his letters, and if you read all his letters, i astonishing. you keep i mean, astonishing. you keep thinking like a bond villain or something and then i something really. and then i suppose lot said in a negative suppose a lot said in a negative way simpson. way about, wallis simpson. but actually she comes out better in the relationship . he does. you the relationship. he does. you know, perhaps it was misogynistic time blame misogynistic at the time blame the , when the american divorce, when actually he's the one who's got major character flaws. i think so. wallis has been so. and i think wallis has been unfairly maligned. it's unfairly maligned. if he is it's been a lot of sexism talks about her as well. i mean, she was certainly somebody who liked the finer but finer things in life, but i don't think of her as a bad

person, just somebody who was selfish it, but he was selfish like it, but he was certainly somebody mean, certainly somebody who i mean, we present day duke, we look at for present day duke, duchess we can duchess of sussex, and we can see were a fair number of parallels. i'm just wondering if you going to go there, you were going to go there, you've it. this will a you've done it. this will a twitter to warn you twitter storm just to warn you that all of our parallels i mean, be quite cruel, mean, it would be quite cruel, wouldn't to prince wouldn't it, to compare prince harry the. because harry to it with the. because you've so scathing him you've been so scathing him what's interesting at one point is the of windsor says that what's interesting at one point is twants of windsor says that what's interesting at one point is twants to of windsor says that what's interesting at one point is twants to battle dsor says that what's interesting at one point is twants to battle oversays that he wants to battle over impertinent suggestion i'm impertinent suggestion but i'm a pubuchy impertinent suggestion but i'm a publicity seeker and as soon as i read that and one of his letters fall exactly what letters i fall exactly what harry keeps saying. i don't want all this publicity. i don't want to eye all the to be the public eye all the time. and i'm thinking for a man who doesn't want to be in a pubuc who doesn't want to be in a public eye, you're giving a very, very good account of being constantly when constantly in the media. when they exiled to bahamas, they were exiled to the bahamas, what actually what did they actually do, because speaks to because the book also speaks to huge of boredom, where huge periods of boredom, where both they're just twiddling their from royal their thumbs away from the royal scene, of effectively scene, sort of effectively perhaps making trouble but were scene, sort of effectively perhito; making trouble but were scene, sort of effectively perhito theiking trouble but were scene, sort of effectively perhito the bahamas)le but were scene, sort of effectively perhito the bahamas because ere scene, sort of effectively perhito the bahamas because they sent to the bahamas because they such had

such trouble because they had found sympathies for found something sympathies for his europe his being in europe and the whole was really really whole thing was really really impossible i impossible but obviously what i find incredibly is he goes find incredibly funny is he goes to bahamas thousands of to the bahamas you thousands of miles forth, can miles away flows forth, can cause he meets bear, cause trouble and he meets bear, which is a real dedication to seeking out the worst people. you can imagine how badly you think this reflects on george is that sex? and indeed queen elizabeth the queen mother? i mean, actually , her portrayal is mean, actually, her portrayal is an entirely favourable either in this book. well, it's interesting because i tried to be fair and balanced but everybody and certainly the king was somebody who until he got into his stride in the second world really world war, he was really floundering. i mean, was floundering. i mean, he was really because he really unable to because he never wanted to king and. never wanted to be king and. it's so much upon him and it's so much thrust upon him and his wife. i mean, she's tough and that's forget because we and that's we forget because we have idea queen as a have this idea of a queen as a sort of lovable gin drinking auntie. when you auntie. but in fact, when you see how she had run royal see how she had run the royal household and she's very much in charge of a king, she's practically the power the practically the power behind the throne can see throne herself. so we can see that and wallis and that edward and wallis and george elizabeth, it's very george and elizabeth, it's very much woman in charge of the

much the woman in charge of the situation. can clear up a situation. can we clear up a degree confusion about their links to the germans in the late thirties and indeed this notion initially, george six and his wife did support. is that taking it too far? yes i think that's certainly taking it too far. and what's fair to say is for george and i, for queen, both supporters of appeasement, because george was a man who i think always wanted father figures neville chamberlain, figures and neville chamberlain, the prime minister lord the then prime minister and lord halifax, secretary halifax, the foreign secretary there, over there, was a controversy over chamberlain appearing the buckingham for buckingham palace balcony, for instance think it's fair instance. and i think it's fair to say that everybody fought that war with germany. it was the worst possible thing that could and people could happen. and so people bending to appease bending backwards to appease hitler. a king was hitler. and so if a king was very much thinking all this time , to appease hitler. , we've got to appease hitler. but his private secretary, alex harding , but his private secretary, alex harding, whose diaries use it, harding, whose diaries i use it, he's obviously the use of the book. the first time, he book. for the first time, he knew was idea because he'd knew was a bad idea because he'd fought the first war. fought in the first world war. he could this is just going he could say, this is just going to absolute. there is no to lead to absolute. there is no possibility that we can actually

seek peace terms with him. so there's a distinction than it seems to be. george six talking about appeasement in terms trying to find peace in europe and edward the eighth his brother talking about important because he actually supported hitler that's where that hitler and that's where that line is there was an image line is drawn there was an image i know remember i don't know if you remember alexander or the queen alexander or of the queen elizabeth ii appearing to salute alongside her sister, princess margaret . much was alongside her sister, princess margaret. much was made of that. it was the front page of the express some years ago. what do you make of that? were they play acting was going on there. what i make of that is a rigid i make of that is a very rigid using a joke i mean were using it as a joke i mean were too young to understand the impulse almost nobody. this was too young to understand the inlong e almost nobody. this was too young to understand the inlong time|ost nobody. this was too young to understand the inlong time before body. this was too young to understand the inlong time before second|is was too young to understand the inlong time before second world a long time before second world war. i there was certainly war. i mean, there was certainly not any kind sympathy. it not of any kind of sympathy. it would a hand knew would only have a hand knew exactly he doing. and exactly what he was doing. and it's soft. a lot it's interesting and soft. a lot of about was he giving of debate about was he giving salutes right, left and centre at answer is almost at me. answer is almost certainly i mean, in but certainly i mean, in fact. but we have images of him we have these images of him looking very happy looking very, very happy doing. so, i think he would

so, i mean, i think he would liked have come to liked to have come back to britain kind, proper puppet britain as a kind, proper puppet dictator. genuinely dictator. i think genuinely would relished the idea of would have relished the idea of being a kind being king. hitler was a kind of president of the united of europe. good grief. and churchill, very churchill, it's just very briefly relationship briefly discuss his relationship with the eighth then with both the eighth and then latterly with george the sixth was interesting because churchill was great supporter churchill was a great supporter of the abdication of it during the abdication crisis. as the war went on crisis. but as the war went on it's funny because it was it's quite funny because it was actually a draft a letter in actually a draft of a letter in which churchill explicitly says the allegiance isn't the duke's allegiance isn't going be. and you think going to be. and you think that's a astonishing that's a fairly astonishing thing to say. but the man who used be king, his used to be king, his relationship with george for six is better because it began is much better because it began level mutual distrust. but level of mutual distrust. but eventually his eventually it became his very close partnership, close working partnership, which continues after the war and after churchill being prime minister, you could even say perhaps you know, it a perhaps that, you know, it was a brotherly relationship the brotherly relationship in the absence eight, absence of edward the eight, actually, needed to actually, george six needed to turn someone. end it turn to someone. in the end it was and they form this was churchill and they form this alliance helps war effort. alliance that helps war effort. and think that that image of and i think that that image of the king and churchill standing next trevor day it's a next trevor on v—e day it's a great you know it's a great

powerful because we see powerful image because we see exactly what happened between them we see the king of them and we see the king of a prime minister working very harmonious. longman, harmonious. alexander longman, thank can thank you very much. you can check book here. look check out his book here. look it's brilliant and you should a copy now. i'll be back next week at you've heard this at 930. you've heard this already, but michael portillo is going to eat ill on his show so please stay tuned for that. i'll see next week .

good morning and welcome sunday with michael portillo with 2 hours of good conversation arts and entertainment, ethical