welcome to gloria meets two conservative employees in this evening show that i've been trying to get for absolutely ages. first up is andrea jenkins. it got aggressive telling me to buy a stamp vest and you just get off with a caution. i said i was bold and i hit the taurus. you know, and i think that is an acceptable . you think that is an acceptable. you can't treat people that way . can't treat people that way. former conservative cabinet minister, now a liberal democrat, steven dahl. that all politicians should remember that when they write words in electronic media, they are part of the public record that will

live forever . and senior live forever. and senior conservative mp william wragg opens up about his depression. the depression sometimes , too, the depression sometimes, too, if you imagine this image that you fall in for a floor and then you fall in for a floor and then you land on the floor below . you land on the floor below. goodness me, i've come through that and it's okay. and then you start to hear the floorboards creak around you. i and i'm going to be going down another level. all that after the news . level. all that after the news. good afternoon . it's just past good afternoon. it's just past 6:00. i'm out. i'm strolling the gb newsroom bbc sport coverage has been affected by last minute changes for a second day in a row as presenters boycott it. the broadcaster in solidarity with gary lineker. now the match of the day show host was asked if he still worked for the bbc this morning. i can't say anything. was his response . so anything. was his response. so though eldest son says he though his eldest son says he thinks the presenter will return but will not ever back down. a

six nations coverage has gone ahead scheduled but five live radio sport has been radically altered on both days of the weekend. and it's understood match of the day two will be much reduced with no presenter , much reduced with no presenter, punst much reduced with no presenter, pundits or commentary. the prime minister is flying to california to discuss the august defence deal between the uk , the us and deal between the uk, the us and australia . rishi sunak will meet australia. rishi sunak will meet his american and australian counterparts during which a deal to supply british nuclear power submarines to australia is likely to be confirmed. the aim of the august pact, signed two years ago in 2021, is to counter china's threat in the indo—pacific region . the indo—pacific region. the government says it will do everything it can to protect uk tech companies caught up in the collapse of the silicon valley bank. companies could start to experience difficulties on monday morning, but the chancellor, jeremy hunt says the treasury is to minimise treasury is working to minimise the to what he described the damage to what he described as some our most promising

as some of our most promising companies uk. he also companies in the uk. he also said they are working at pace to make sure those companies don't run of cash. last friday as run out of cash. last friday as vbs, an american parent company became the biggest failure of a us bank since the oh eight financial crisis. it is now under us government control . the under us government control. the health secretary has criticised junior doctors for failing to call off their strike action on monday . writing in the monday. writing in the telegraph, steve barclay described the 72 hour walkout as incredibly disappointing. the british medical association has described mr. barclay's recent offer to negotiate as a feeble attempt to stall it is expected to affect many services, including a&e, cancer care and maternity care . and it's one of maternity care. and it's one of the biggest nights in hollywood mood as celebrities get ready for the 95th oscar awards . and for the 95th oscar awards. and there's plenty of british and irish talent in the mix for a gong , the banshees of asuran has gong, the banshees of asuran has become the most oscar nominated

irish film of all time with nine nominations. bill nye is up for best actor for his role in the movie living , and andrea movie living, and andrea riseborough is up for the best actress for her role in the movie, too. leslie and it all gets under way about midnight tv, online and dab+ radio . this tv, online and dab+ radio. this is gb news. more for you at the top of the next hour . top of the next hour. andrew jenkins i'm so pleased that we are doing this. we've been trying to fix it for ages to be here. glorious. now you were elected in 2015. you defeated ed bowles . you've defeated ed bowles. you've always been a big euroskeptic . always been a big euroskeptic. you were a big supporter of bofis you were a big supporter of boris johnson's premiership. yes. what is your assessment of how your party is doing in a

post boris world? i mean, i come from a family of eurosceptics. my from a family of eurosceptics. my mum was a massive sceptic, so it was my dad. i mean, i'm a democrat . people voted for boris democrat. people voted for boris and this is why i've stridently voted and tried to secure brexit. so i'm a democrat. and just the way boris got ousted within our own party, i thought it left a bad taste in our mouths already we've seen the knock on effects with members not being very happy , and i not being very happy, and i think . i not being very happy, and i think. i think it's not a good look how we've kept change in prime ministers. i mean, i back less . and i just think we've got less. and i just think we've got to get on with the job, which is doing. and i think it's also about trying to instil confidence in the public because it has been. yeah not the easiest time the last few years . do you think boris johnson might come back? i hope he will do on day, definitely. i think he's got more to give.

definitely great. so you were skills minister. you were a minister in the dying days of that boris johnson premiership. you were on your way to that resignation speech and in number 10, a select few of his key supporters were invited to. i mentioned the finger on a special moment. i'm going to mention the finger you gave the middle finger. why i mean, first of all, this was i didn't expect to become a minister the next day is something law. it is, yeah but i've i've had about eight death threats over the years and really get sick of it and i saw steve braver. i think everybody knows steve bray, you know , the anti—brexit guy and know, the anti—brexit guy and he's been hounding me since my little one was in his pram, even when my little one was in his pram there with a megaphone, shouting and i've pulled him up on that and it's just got no respect for anybody. and and i just you these just thought, you know, these people have got what they want now. there's all shouting. the bofis now. there's all shouting. the boris is stepping boris is resigning, is stepping down. leave him alone. and i

just got sick of this. double standards . you know, it's okay standards. you know, it's okay for one group of people to treat another group same way, but. another group the same way, but. but somebody thinks on you. but not somebody thinks on you. so i just had enough. yeah, and it sound you regret it didn't sound like you regret it. don't really know. i mean, it. i don't really know. i mean, i. i do come in, minister. the next day that was that was unexpected. but now , you know, unexpected. but now, you know, people treat people people should treat people better. and when you've had six death rates, you have eight death rates, you have eight death threats, when you've had to get ctv's your home and people tell you to kill yourself , you just get sick of it, to be honest. and let's talk about some of those death threats . so some of those death threats. so in 2019, a person was taken to court for threatening to rip your face off. the year before, your face off. the year before, you received a threatening and sexually explicit email calling for you to be cut with barbed wire and die. in my own pool of excrement. yeah last year , a man excrement. yeah last year, a man was arrested for making a threat . it's about you to your local

council , i . it's about you to your local council, i believe. yes. what happened was. it was my niece's. wedding. the next day, as i was in the local hairdressers on the high street. cut my head and my team run in with the police. the local security guards at the town hall , a local security guards at the town hall, a man said, is looking for you. he wants to blow you up . and so that's the blow you up. and so that's the only time i've ever wanted to quit, gloria, because i'm quite a tough cookie, being a northerner. you're a tough cookie yourself. and you don't like pushed a corner. like being pushed into a corner. but you've got little but when you've got a little one, got a five year one, when you got a five year old, i was sat in the hairdressers for those 10 minutes waiting for the police to and i, i asked the to arrive. and i, i asked the hairdressers whether they had an exit. back, don, because i exit. the back, don, because i needed to run and then i was thinking, oh, god, do i keep thinking, oh, god, how do i keep them and that's only them safe? and that's the only moment politics i've ever moment in in politics i've ever wanted and for a good wanted to quit. and for a good month actually , i was month or two, actually, i was thinking, do i quit? is it really worth it? i have all the people who made those threats that i just listed. oh, he got let off. they said it was a joke

and there was another chap. i got 70 emails, a constituent , and there was another chap. i got 70 emails, a constituent, a middle class guy, beautiful home owned business. so it's not just some, you know, some loner in his bedroom on a laptop, you know, calling my child the devil child . it got quite sexual. it child. it got quite sexual. it got aggressive telling me to buy a stab vest and he just got off with a caution. he said i was bald and i hit the tories, you know, and i think that is an acceptable you can't treat people that way . so with that in people that way. so with that in mind , in 2010, say you provided mind, in 2010, say you provided a character reference. yes. for the court case of the conservative party. yes. who made violent threats to the labour mp, shadow home secretary yvette cooper. he said she will pay- yvette cooper. he said she will pay. i'm already organise using to hurt her. given what you've just said about how you . i've just said about how you. i've probably got sucked in by him in a way he i really felt sorry for

me. i had an awful childhood. it told me how is father committed suicide when he was young and a and i never really felt for him. and all i'd seen is this good side already. and i knew it had tremendous mental health issues. so i would just saying, can we make sure that he gets the support with the mental health issues? that was the support. i mean, what he not mean, what he did was not acceptable life, acceptable in any walk of life, but i just wanted to ensure because it needed support with his okay his mental health. okay something else that i found out when i was doing my research when i was doing my research when you were 18, your dad sent your picture off to a beauty pageant and you made it to the final of miss uk. pageant and you made it to the final of miss uk . what was that final of miss uk. what was that like? oh my gosh, i'm going to love dressing it like you do, chloe. i mean, i'm very much a girly girl. it was it was interesting . i mean , i remember interesting. i mean, i remember wearing my bikini with a sarong . walking in. you know, i've i'm

not the most elegant walker . not the most elegant walker. and, you know, people was taking excessive beastly and i, i was just stomping away, you know , on just stomping away, you know, on the stage and i remember one girl was saying she's desperately need in the loo and she's like, oh, i can't walk out there yet because the judges will see me and i want to make an entrance. and i forgot. so you need the loo. go to the loo. so it just it was amazing. our people took it so seriously. i just it was a bit of a laugh ready and we are recording this interview in the week of international women's day. yeah. do with the of do you think with the benefit of hindsight, things as hindsight, those things as beauty contests hindsight, those things as beauty being contests hindsight, those things as beauty being judged contests hindsight, those things as beauty being judged on ontests hindsight, those things as beauty being judged on theirts , women being judged on their beauty? i mean , they're a relic beauty? i mean, they're a relic of the past. no wildlife . yeah. of the past. no wildlife. yeah. but mean, i don't see any harm but i mean, i don't see any harm in to be honest. you know , in it, to be honest. you know, if people want to do if that's what people want to do . and i mean, i never celebrate international women's day. i mean , with all the trans stuff, mean, with all the trans stuff, i think, you know, we've got to realise what a woman is. but i mean i remember the theresa may's you remember when may's time. do you remember when

she olympics she contacted the olympics and said woman from said, ask, find a woman from your constituency and ask her to stand while i tweeted for true content , i'm stand while i tweeted for true content, i'm going to bring a bloke and it got the backlash. i got from fellow women colleagues . she let women down or that rubbish and i thought, you know, sometimes people don't himself too seriously and i think we've very lucky in this country. yes there's misogyny around . but there's misogyny around. but i think, look, we've had three female prime ministers let's focus on the positive in life as a feminist . you know, i'm a a feminist. you know, i'm a motor crime. i believe whatever. you know , i coming from a you know, i coming from a working class background like yourself as well, i think it's about opportunities for people and i want the brightest and the best to have the opportunities and to really get somewhere in life and pick the best people for the jobs , whether the whole for the jobs, whether the whole cabinets, women, whether the whole men. i think the whole men. and i think the people are people and you also

have a another talent . you are a have a another talent. you are a soprano . yes give us of what you soprano. yes give us of what you want to see. go, go . i've got want to see. go, go. i've got my. okay, what shall i say ? my. okay, what shall i say? okay. i got on. oh, i in my prime in my need. okay. i got on. oh, i in my prime in my need . you have prime in my need. you have always been the course . got that always been the course. got that really . oh, well, such different really. oh, well, such different words. i'm a spy. i write songs as well. i've got a song, release an album myself and the early 2000 and it's called elise is an acronym for i living in secret. the name came to me in a dream. i've got a song i sing backwards so i like quirky songs as a very talented girl. backwards so i like quirky songs as a very talented girl . you'd as a very talented girl. you'd be caught on a karaoke night. maybe we can do it together.

yeah i think i'd put you through that. yeah i think i'd put you through that . you are a mom ? yes. you that. you are a mom? yes. you have a son with the conservative mp jack lopresti , who you mp jack lopresti, who you married in 2017. i'm always fascinated to know how anyone can date and fall in love in parliament. yeah, well, it can strike in the most unusual places , can't it? yeah, but places, can't it? yeah, but i think which anybody who's a mum in any walk of life realise it's a juggle and living tuned of miles apart. now cliff is school age at five you can't go to do different schools that surgical being been a mum and trying to being been a mum and trying to be the best mum i get mummy girl every day i domino boy yeah we were supposed to do this interview last year. it has to be delayed. you mum went to hospital ? your be delayed. you mum went to hospital? your mum died? yes how

are you? how i got to be on school. it was the worst time of my life. my mum was my rock. she was amazing and. and we found out in november she was really bizarre behaviour . she had bizarre behaviour. she had a benign tumour on the brain and three days after so she was in hospital. three days after that my sister went into a coma unexpectedly and was in a coma and died. had to be resuscitated and died. had to be resuscitated and come back and then she was paralysed and i couldn't tell mum that. and mum survived an amazing eight and a half hour operation to remove the tumour. but then she got sepsis and honestly i. i didn't feel in my own body at times. it was horrific being with mum the last 36 hours when i was holding her hand, the medication that gave her which pumps the, you know, the blood around the main organs . so it pulled it from the

extremities. so she started getting necrosis . it's a face getting necrosis. it's a face was going blue, her tongue was going black and trying to get that image out. my mum's face, it was horrific . yeah. i mean, it was horrific. yeah. i mean, my sister, she still can't walk. she's still it's probably the worst time of my life . and but i worst time of my life. and but i survived it. and the hardest part ready was for my little one. clifford's he is telling him that his nana's died and is said to me, mummy , i know why said to me, mummy, i know why she died. a sad one. i was full. i got on her feet and she fell over and hit her head. she's died because of me, mummy. that was the hardest thing ever explained to five killed. it's not you, my darling. yeah it's been such a tough time for. it's been such a tough time for. it's been horrible. yeah but. oh, the people go through and stuff as well but it both going through at the same time that that was hard and it was a really tale of two cities. a tale of two hospitals. my sister and she lives in ham and went to hereford hospital. she had an

amazing treatment. i mean, even the nurse went and got her a kfc a couple of weeks ago because she'd mystic. she'd been in hospital all these months, but my mum, it was awful. care the amount of times i walked in she was in the rain, urine was drenched in the rain, urine covered food and i had covered in ruined food and i had to change her sheets and she was covered in sick one time and it was really a tale of two hospitals. it was horrific. lord, i'm sorry you went through. thank you, sir. you went through that. i thought she was much longer. tell was so much longer. i can tell you, we're almost out of time. final question . yeah, its budget final question. yeah, its budget week week , one call, one week next week, one call, one thing that you want to say in that budget, maybe lower taxes that budget, maybe lower taxes that affects everybody. and also including corporations tax, you know, post—brexit britain , you know, post—brexit britain, you know, post—brexit britain, you know, we need to be ready for business, be attractive for investment , which will help the investment, which will help the economy . andrea jenkins , i knew economy. andrea jenkins, i knew you'd be great. loved it. ditto. thank you. thank you. thank you. coming up, former conservative

health secretary steven durham, the i'd like his keir starmer leading a minority labour government but then has to deal with the point that our political system is broken. coming up, senior conservative mp william rock . i do take a mp william rock. i do take a reasonably mild dose of sertraline each day, which , as sertraline each day, which, as your viewers may be familiar , is your viewers may be familiar, is an antidepressant and also has particular helpful effects with regards to anxiety .

stephen taro , you were stephen taro, you were a conservative mp from 1979 to 2015. you were a big figure in the party, held various cabinet jobs. why on earth are you now a member of the liberal democrats? well i have a simple way of

summarising that, which is that i leave my party. my i didn't leave my party. my party left me . so i was actually party left me. so i was actually a member of the conservative party for 49 years. i joined it when ted heath was leading britain into europe. i left it when theresa may was leading britain out of europe. and the two things are connected. i was at the time that i left the tory party, i was chair of the european movement because i passionately believe that brexit is a fundamental mistake. what john major actually describes as an historic mistake, which, as i often say , is as close as john often say, is as close as john ever gets to using bad language in public . ever gets to using bad language in public. but ever gets to using bad language in public . but people voted for in public. but people voted for it. so democracy i just. they didn't vote for the brexit we've got. they voted . it's absolutely got. they voted. it's absolutely true. they voted for brexit. there were a wide range of brexit on offer and we've chosen the most damaging or rather i should be more much more precise. the faction that currently controls the tory party chose the most damaging opfion party chose the most damaging option of brexit. is there any

way back for you to come back to the conservative party ? is that the conservative party? is that remotely possible ? knows the remotely possible? knows the short answer because i do believe that the tory party is responsible for an extremely damaging version of brexit. that's the first reason. there's actually a second reason. and on this i freely acknowledge i've changed my view. i've always been an advocate of the two party system on the basis that you you have two permanent coalitions and invite the voters to choose between them. i'm now opposed to the to the two party system because what's actually happened around brexit is the most egregious example . but most egregious example. but actually in my own area of particular personal interest in the health service is another victim of the two party system, in my view . what it does is to

in my view. what it does is to reduce political discussion, to a binary choice between two structures and those structures as victims , both of them in the as victims, both of them in the last ten years of factional politics, where the voters simply aren't involved. the labour party, that was true of the corbyn years . the tory party the corbyn years. the tory party has been true of the brexit argument and what i therefore believe we now ought to have in this country is a more plural, a more nuanced political system . more nuanced political system. and for that you need electoral reform, which is why i'm now a liberal democrat. but we don't have electoral reform yet. we will have it for the next general election. you are going to wake up with keir starmer rishi sunak as prime minister. who rather say my who would you rather say my dream starmer dream outcome is? keir starmer is minister because is prime minister because i think he'd be better placed to do some short term things than the current tory party, but important within a very important within a very important qualification . the important qualification. the ideal outcome is keir starmer

leading a minority labour government that then has to deal with the point that our political system is broken. is so is remarkable what you've said because i grew up when i was getting into politics, you you were this big figure that i remember from the tory party. and it is quite extraordinary to hear you say that when push came to shove you would prefer to wake up with a labour prime minister because i think keir starmer is in better control and this is a relative measurement in better control of the dangerous factions in the labour party than rishi sunak is in control of the dangerous factions of the tory party. really interesting. one of the cabinet jobs that you had, this was on the john major. you were health secretary and it just isn't never far from the top of our political debate , discussion our political debate, discussion priorities . our political debate, discussion priorities. imagine your back

behind your desk, your health secretary today . what's the secretary today. what's the number one thing that you're going to tackle that actually is easy today , which is to remember easy today, which is to remember the health service can't deliver anything unless it's got it got full engagement from all the staff of the health service and a realistic workforce plan for the health service. and also for the health service. and also for the social care system . and so the social care system. and so i think the highest priority for steve barclay and it as as has been the case since he was appointed now getting on for six months ago is to sort out the pay months ago is to sort out the pay issues and to re—engage with the workforce of the nhs and to set out his plan for how the work the workforce of the nhs is going to be developed over the over the coming period, beyond the end of this parliament. did you have a construct to a relationship with the health unions when you were a health

secretary? like any health secretary, i had a occasion really testy relationship with the trade unions. but what i would like to think is that whether it's the bma and the representatives of the medical profession or the rcn and the other nursing unions or or and importantly the other people who work in the health service is that , first of all, importantly that, first of all, importantly , my door is always open. i was always happy to talk to them. secondly, i am a believer in the review body system that takes the immediate issues of pay out of day to day politics, because i think that creates more space for the dialogue that ought to take place between the person who's politically responsible for the nhs and the social care system. i insist on linking the two together. the person who's politically responsible for them and the representatives of the people who deliver them . it

people who deliver them. it isn't the health secretary that delivers the health the health care system blindingly , care system blindingly, obviously, if. but if you're going to deliver your political objectives, you have to have a line , an open line of dialogue line, an open line of dialogue with the people who represent the staff of the of the system . the staff of the of the system. more from stephen dorrell after the break. you only win in politics if you explain to people who don't agree with you why you should do what you want to do .

let's use the benefit of your expert aryans in those decades of perspective , you were in of perspective, you were in parliament for many prime ministers from thatcher to may . ministers from thatcher to may. i was never actually left in 2015. so john david cameron was

your last prime minister? prime minister . if your last prime minister? prime minister. if you had to single out one or two, i'll let you have three. if you had six as the most impressive figures in those 40 years who you're going to plump for so well, i think history will be very clear that there are two in that list that that left that imprint on the country . and one of whom is country. and one of whom is obviously margaret thatcher. i voted for the thatcher government , supported the government, supported the thatcher government throughout its tenure. i never described myself as a thatcherite at the time and i'm certainly not going to myself in to describe myself in that language . but you can't take language now. but you can't take away from the fact and this is where today's sort of thatcherite monarch, they , they, thatcherite monarch, they, they, i think they misunderstand the nature of margaret thatcher. she was a very, very skilled politician. she knew how to build a coalition, including, in my case, people who didn't fundamentally agree with her instincts , but were prepared to

instincts, but were prepared to empower her to do things that needed to be done. so she's an impressive figure. and the other figure that history will clearly remember is tony blair, who made a huge mistake in iraq. i say that as somebody who voted for iraq. so i'm not seeking to rewrite history. it was a huge historical error, but nonetheless, tony and i've worked with him clearly in the european argument more recently , reasonably closely. i like tony blair and i respect the fact that there's a phrase he uses a lot , fact that there's a phrase he uses a lot, which i think is 100% right. and he's missed by most politicians most of the time , which is that democracy is time, which is that democracy is government by explanation . and government by explanation. and that's ministers have to be prepared to explain what they're doing , if they're prepared to explain what they're doing, if they're going to invite people to support them. and one other issue, where i

want to get the benefit of your perspective , it's sort of perspective, it's sort of accepted at the moment that politics is incredibly toxic , politics is incredibly toxic, that there has never been so much abuse directed towards politicians . there must have politicians. there must have been toxicity and abuse in your time there. yeah i'm not sure that there's toxicity levels rise and fall. i mean, the only time i remember walking through loughborough market and being personally abused was at the time of the community charged , time of the community charged, the poll tax and that said there was a high level of toxicity deservedly in my view . but deservedly in my view. but that's at that's now all history . so toxicity i think is a rises and falls . what i think is and falls. what i think is genuinely different today is the will is the willingness of politicians to talk to their echo chamber and to i've seen it

said multiple times by politicians actually on both sides of the political divide, which is why i don't like two party system people think the people say what they actually mean is my twittersphere, my twitter followers say because they don't actually talk to the people on the other side of the argument. i think and this is actually one thing that i attribute both in fairness, margaret thatcher and tony blair understood you only win in politics if you explain to people who don't agree with you why you do what you want to do. today's politicians talk to their supporters. they forget their supporters. they forget the people whose support they needif the people whose support they need if they're going to create a majority. very well put , if a majority. very well put, if i may say so . let's come to the may say so. let's come to the current day of the last couple of weeks we've seen the release of weeks we've seen the release of lots of whatsapp messages the lockdown files the revelation about decisions that were taken

dunng about decisions that were taken during the pandemic which we were not aware of how they were formulated , what lessons can we formulated, what lessons can we learn from what we now know as a result of those leaked messages 7 result of those leaked messages ? i suppose there are three things we can learn . the first things we can learn. the first is the simplest one, which is that all politicians should remember that when they write words in electronic media, they are part of the public record that will live forever . as so that will live forever. as so first point, that's a pretty simple mechanistic point . the simple mechanistic point. the second point is , in a sense the second point is, in a sense the least important , which is that least important, which is that given that we have access to those private messages , i think those private messages, i think we should screen out some of the sillier things that most obviously silly things that are said in those messages . because said in those messages. because i actually think there's a third point that's really seriously important, which is that government is a public process and the decisions that are made by government. when i when people talk about process, it

sounds as though they're kind of bonng sounds as though they're kind of boring accountants and you know, we tick the box . have we covered we tick the box. have we covered all the bases? tony blair i've already talked about the mistakes of the iraq war. when the inquiry reported on the iraq war, it said that one of the key failings, what it called safer government . but what we've got government. but what we've got in these whatsapp messages is exactly the same phenomenon in the middle of the pandemic. there is process in government for a it is a public process. and i think these are whatsapp messages and the mistakes that they led to reinforce. again, they led to reinforce. again, the dangers of safer government . stephen doyle , an absolute . stephen doyle, an absolute pleasure. thank you very much indeed for your time. thank you. coming up, senior concern mp william rock. some within government that they thought that they could control the overtly controlled the voting behaviour of members of parliament by whoever directly or implicitly threatening to

withdraw projects and funding from their constituencies, which i don't think is acceptable .

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conservative mp william rock. i have been harassing you for months to try and get this interview, so thank you for finally giving only in a very polite way, a very, very polite. this is what you wrote last august. i have lived with depression and anxiety for most of my adult life . at the moment, of my adult life. at the moment, both are severe . how are you now both are severe. how are you now 7 both are severe. how are you now ? i'm fine. as we always say. in response to that question , i'm response to that question, i'm certainly not feeling as i did in august and, feeling genuinely much better , much more positive much better, much more positive , much happier. dare i say it ?

, much happier. dare i say it? and i think, you know, the or the black dog comes and goes throughout life . and i think the throughout life. and i think the summer was a particularly acute penod summer was a particularly acute period of it when did you first become aware of your depression? probably when i was at university and i think therefore on and off various stages of my life , it has been has been then life, it has been has been then i think i class depression , i think i class depression, anxiety of the different sides of the same coin and they quite often come as a pairing in that way . and you know, certainly way. and you know, certainly through the time that i've been an mp had been some, some tough spells, but nothing quite as affecting as as it was over over the course of the last summer. can you tell us a little bit what you feel comfortable with about how it affects you? depression in my case, is a profound numbness to the world

and people around me and it's entirely out of character because actually, despite the impression i may give to some people, i quite like other people, i quite like other people by and large, and get on with most people and enjoy the company of others . and company of others. and generally, i'm enthusiast, stick about the things i apply myself to. so when that all sorts of drains away from you as a nurse is very noticeable , noticeable, is very noticeable, noticeable, and certainly that was that was the, the state that i found myself in during during the summer . but myself in during during the summer. but also, you myself in during during the summer . but also, you know, you summer. but also, you know, you have a heightened anxiety and everybody has anxiety from time to time . and it's quite natural, to time. and it's quite natural, frankly to feel nerves and apprehension at the sorts of things when that becomes an anxiety and apprehension and about everyday things from getting up in the morning to, you know, going out for a walk to do this on the other, then, you know, it's actually there's

not the everyday run of the mill stuff and really it's quite serious. what do you do when you're in having an episode how do you what sort of treatment is available? well, for me, i much better identify it, but i haven't actually before with some have spoken publicly of it. you know close friends knew and i'm sure people from my life had noficed i'm sure people from my life had noticed times where that inexplicable disappearances were a sort of retreat and take take time for myself long walks and so the old romantic sense of longing to moorlands and headlands and all of a sudden never but i think really it usually requires me to take a bit of time out and a bit of time away. and it's only on this occasion actually explained what it was rather than people, you know, being curious as to , oh, know, being curious as to, oh, where's he gone? what's happened to him and why you decide to to him and why did you decide to go public last year for the first time? because i wanted to

hold myself accountable for getting better and the only way i could see that time in doing so was to make it clear what it was rather than it being some sort of secret that lurked away. and i think would have , you and i think would have, you know, the likelihood would be that it would come back and come back more frequently because it made myself accountable . took me made myself accountable. took me a while, perhaps, to do everything that i needed to do , everything that i needed to do, because i know being in public about something, you do feel a sense of why i've done that good on me. i can , you know, relax. on me. i can, you know, relax. but no, actually i like in the depression sometimes to imagine this image that you've fallen for a flaw and then you land on the floor below goodness me, i've come through that and it's okay. and then you start to hear the floorboards creak around you

and i, and i'm going to be going down another level. and so i think it's sort of trying to break out of that, that cycle and think being public about it allowed that was my means of doing so. is there anything you can do to help your self emerge from that darkness ? yeah, and from that darkness? yeah, and a lot of it is your self. yes. you can have the support of a people, but i do think you need to have that self awareness in order . to drive yourself to have that self awareness in order. to drive yourself and that can be a very, very, very small step. step simple things , small step. step simple things, but without that, i don't think you can be entirely lifted from that state from it external things . do that state from it external things. do you think the politics, environment, the nature of politics, does it exist ? debate or amplify your

exist? debate or amplify your mental health? does it not? i don't think it if i don't know , don't think it if i don't know, because it's not really a controlled exposure , is it? controlled exposure, is it? because if i'm not in a different situation. so, you know , all life in and different know, all life in and different occupies persons have have their challenges which can you know something unique to two politicians. i think there's something quite unique to a certain pressurised environment in the political world, but that can be another public facing roles and roles of leadership as well , where the expectation, of well, where the expectation, of course, is that you will remain in permanently strong . and in permanently strong. and setting an example to others. so i think you will find that in different walks of life . i different walks of life. i wouldn't necessarily say that politics is conducive to having your mind in a happy sense of equilibrium. all of the time. though this may be too private

to question and you can not answer medication therapies . i answer medication therapies. i resisted medication for some time because i'm previous occasions i had i think i spent the best part of a few years when i was just becoming an mp. actually, i was on a course medication for a few years and i rather my unilateral way decided to come off that without any thoughts of what the withdrawal might to be it. but that was the way that i doubt things and so it took a bit of time for me on this occasion , but now i do take this occasion, but now i do take a reasonably mild dose of sertraline each day , which, as sertraline each day, which, as your view is maybe familiar , is your view is maybe familiar, is an antidepressant and also has a particular helpful effects with regards anxiety . but particular helpful effects with regards anxiety. but i'm pleased to hear that at the moment you're you're feeling much more like yourself. yes whatever whatever that is. yeah thank you

for describing the nature of your depression and anxiety . your depression and anxiety. you're only 35. i'm not aware of it. well you were elected to . it. well you were elected to. parliament in 2015. you're not going to stand at the next election? no well, i wouldn't want people to think it's an immediate follow on from our previous conversation . i mean, previous conversation. i mean, the most shocking thing that seemed to be the case when i announced i wasn't going to start was people suddenly realised was because realised how young i was because i've been, you know, pretending to be much older than i am for many, many years. and but it's not not linked to 2 to 2 bouts of mental ill health, although that did give me a perspective that did give me a perspective that there may well be more to life. dare i say it, than politics. and i'm sure you you might attest yourself . so it's might attest yourself. so it's more much more of a of a positive choice . i think that positive choice. i think that when you do something with will

be the best part of ten years or so . and my misspent youth was so. and my misspent youth was getting into westminster . so. and my misspent youth was getting into westminster. and there's obviously an element of me that thinks that there must be more, more to life, but it's not to say i will miss it terribly, because despite all of the ups and downs, if i can put it that way, i really do enjoy being a member of parliament. so i think there is something unique in that which unless you have experienced it, it's hard sometimes for others to quite appreciate what that unique quality is. and so i'll miss it . but i'm certainly made the decision in a positive fashion. i don't want people to get the little violins out for me and i'm quite looking forward to doing other things in the future. yeah. and i can testify that there is sunshine a way from those green benches . as you from those green benches. as you say, it's a wonderful privilege that nobody else can appreciate

just how wonderful it . but there just how wonderful it. but there are limits for everyone right . are limits for everyone right. let's talk a little bit about politics. you caused controversy when you stood up in the house of commons. this was when boris johnson was coming under pressure for you to stand down, really as as leader of the conservative party. and you made the allegation that there was blackmail of a nature of mps , blackmail of a nature of mps, conservative mps who were threatening oust boris johnson , threatening oust boris johnson, that if they stepped out of line they could lose constituency funding . i know you've met with funding. i know you've met with the police about those allegations at their invitation. you told me before we came out, where are we with with that? never particularly went further with the police. but i stand by what i said at that committee

session i had witnessed and had testimony from colleagues about the pressures that they were coming under, which i felt was not just unacceptable in a political sense, but i thought wasn't how you should treat and in saying so , a number of people in saying so, a number of people came forward with their experience , says date. we've experience, says date. we've seen as recently as this morning in the press an example whereby this kind of tactic had been deployed in a different context . and so i think there was a cultural problem at time within some within government that they thought that they could control the overtly controlled the voting behaviour of members of parliament by you have a directly or implicitly threatening to withdraw all projects and funding from their constituencies, which i don't think is acceptable. what do we do about it? is it has it always been a tool for the executive

who. lots of things have always happened, whether they're acceptable is a different question entirely . i acceptable is a different question entirely. i think acceptable is a different question entirely . i think the question entirely. i think the best way in politics, if you want to get people on board, is to convince members of parliament of the strength of an argument . and when the argument argument. and when the argument is relatively flimsy and people are growing tired and wary, some of it that might be a reflection on the arguments. i don't think strong arm tactics are the best way, but just because it's always happened doesn't mean it's the right and healthy thing for our democracy . do you think for our democracy. do you think we might see the return of boris johnson in a role at any point ? johnson in a role at any point? well, it wouldn't for be it for me to say it might not surprise you that it wouldn't necessarily be at my invitation william mark. the reason i wanted to do this interview, the reason why i have been pinging those messages to you for so many months, is

because i wanted to show that people , leading people in public people, leading people in public life are humans, just like the rest of us, with the same strains and stresses that many of the rest of the nation enjoy .thank of the rest of the nation enjoy . thank you very much indeed for your time. you for having me. thanks for watching. i'm back next sunday at six. join me . next sunday at six. join me. hello i'm craig snow. and here's the latest forecast from the met office as we look ahead to the new working week for all of us, it's going to stay unsettled and the risk of some further snow at times. so here's the situation as we end sunday this small air coming from the land tick. coming in from the land tick. but the cold is always close by. across the far north of the uk. and as we go through the next few in fact will sink few days that in fact will sink its back towards south. its way back towards the south. but rest of sunday we've but for the rest of sunday we've got spend a rain working its

got to spend a rain working its way northwards as it bumps up into cold across the into that cold air across the far we will see some far north. we will see some sleet and snow, especially across ground and to across the high ground and to the of it, increasingly the south of it, increasingly windy, along windy, especially along seven counties see coastal counties could see some coastal gales come end of the gales here come the end of the night. for many night. temperatures for many miles 10 11. in most towns miles at 10 to 11. in most towns and across the south, and cities across the south, a touch of of course, the touch of frost, of course, the very far north. this cold very far north. and this cold air sink its way southwards very far north. and this cold airwe sink its way southwards very far north. and this cold airwe go nk its way southwards very far north. and this cold airwe go throughay southwards very far north. and this cold airwe go through monday. rards very far north. and this cold airwe go through monday. so s very far north. and this cold airwe go through monday. so the as we go through monday. so the rain turning increasingly to sleet snow, even at lower sleet and snow, even at lower levels across scotland levels at times across scotland . there warnings in . so there are warnings in force could some disruption could see some disruption here throughout the day. further south, my old but blustery risk of some rain, especially across northern england , wales and northern england, wales and south—west england highs reaching 14 to 15 degrees into the evening. the kodak continues to try and offer its way southwards the risk of some snow across northern ireland, in england and eventually into wales in the midlands again, could of snow in could see a covering of snow in places across the high places chiefly across the high ground. go through the ground. as we go through the course night and then course of the night and then cold could see some cold behind it could see some fairly widespread icy stretches come tuesday morning. tuesday come tuesday morning. so tuesday morning could be a bit

morning commute could be a bit tncky morning commute could be a bit tricky northern tricky across northern and central parts. expect central parts. again, expect some disruption here. but all in all, the two states, it's going to be a cold for all of us. to be a cold day for all of us. once any early clears the once any early rain clears the very southeast, a mixture of very far southeast, a mixture of sunny wintry showers sunny spells and wintry showers , sleet and snow , even some sleet and snow passes both coasts far south, but chiefly across the north. as we go through the course of the day temperatures struggling day and temperatures struggling compared recent days, but compared to recent days, but that cold thing doesn't last for too long. in the south, it has milder but wetter. on wednesday . on mark dolan tonight, following the fierce debate around gary lineker , the message around gary lineker, the message is a clear one. what's the point in having borders if you don't police them? stop the might be unpopular among millionaire ex footballers, but for ordinary it's footballers, but for ordinary wsfime footballers, but for ordinary it's time to sort this issue out once and for all. it might take a turn as people borrow money for private operations and pay to tutor their kids at home. the pubuc to tutor their kids at home. the public sector isn't working class politics legend ann widdecombe. my all star panel

and former labour mp simon dann . see you .

at nine. welcome back. i'm alan armstrong in the gibb newsroom. bbc sport coverage has been disrupted for a second day in a row as presenters boycott the broadcaster in soledar si with gary lineker. match of the day host dodged questions earlier , host dodged questions earlier, telling reporters i can't say regarding his future . however, regarding his future. however, his eldest son says he thinks the presenter will return but won't ever back down. now six nafions won't ever back down. now six nations coverage today did go ahead as scheduled, but five live radio sport has been radically altered on both days of the weekend. and it's

understood match of the day two