activist and the founder of something called the prize will find out what that's all about, all of that in a couple of minutes. but first, let's get the news with polly middlehurst . nigel, thank you and good evening to you. well, let's bnng evening to you. well, let's bring you some breaking news we've had just in the last few moments. we've heard the disgraced pop star gary glitter has been recalled to prison after breaching his licence conditions . in a statement, the conditions. in a statement, the ministry of justice said protecting the public is the number one priority. the 78 year old was released last month after serving half of 16 year sentence for sexually abusing three girls. that just coming to us within the last few moments. gary glitter, 78 years old, real name paul gadd has after serving only half of his six years, sent and being released last month , and being released last month, broken his bail conditions and is being recalled to prison.

we'll bring you more detail on that, of course, as we get it. now, note the news tonight. the prime minister says it's the right decision for the government to pledge money government to pledge more money into bolstering the uk's defences . number ten announced defences. number ten announced today defence spending will rise by almost £5 billion over two years as it comes us rishi sunak met his australian counterpart, anthony albanese is in san diego. ahead of unveiling a major new orca defence pact as known between the united states , the uk and australia. well plans to be announced with president joe biden include supplying nuclear powered subs to australia ahead of that meeting. mr. sunak praised the current relationship between the uk and america relationship with america economically is very strong. our exports are growing massively anyway and we are concluding agreements with states. remember, many american states. remember, many american states are as big as both countries and actually increasing our economic ties at a state level. it's something that can be really good for

britain and for jobs. that can be really good for britain and forjobs. and so we're getting on and doing that now. the government's illegal migration bill is currently being debated in the house of commons. tonight's the second reading and the legislation will allow for the removal of channel migrants from the uk under the proposal , as migrants from the uk under the proposal, as those attempting to cross the english channel would be banned from future re—entry and blocked from applying for uk . the home secretary suella braverman says stopping small boats is her top priority . the boats is her top priority. the british public know that border security is national security , security is national security, that illegal migration makes us all less safe. they know that the financial and social costs of uncontrolled and illegal migration are sustainable . they migration are sustainable. they know that if our borders are to mean we must control who comes into country and the terms under

which they remain here when speaking earlier on today. now lastly, the tv presenter, gary lineker has been reinstated , lineker has been reinstated, tied to match of the day, presenting reaching an agreement with the bbc today . that's after with the bbc today. that's after he was taken off air over tweets about the government's illegal migration bill. the bbc director general has apologised and said the corporation is launching an independent review of its social media guidelines . the board has media guidelines. the board has welcomed the move, saying impartiality is a cornerstone of the speaking to the bbc , the the speaking to the bbc, the director general, tim davie, said he took proportionate action . that's all from the action. that's all from the newsroom for now. we're back in and out now. back to out . and out now. back to out. what it's a bit early, i

suppose, that for the tennis season, but it is game set and match to gary lineker. what an extraordinary few days and openly, wilfully provocative tweet by gary lineker saying that the current government's policies when it comes to illegal immigration make them sound like those political figures from germany in the 19305. figures from germany in the 1930s. well the row, of course, has been about chiefly impartiality, but actually the tweet itself was a disgrace. and to compare senior figures in government to goebbels and, the gangis government to goebbels and, the gang is frankly , in my view, gang is frankly, in my view, nothing less than hate speech. funny, isn't it.7 those that tell you how wonderful of virtuous they are, often of those that they are, often of those that the real hate for the bbc, the whole thing's been a disaster and in many ways itself inflicted one. three years ago there were argue it's over. gary lineker being overtly political it's one thing to have an opinion. you know, gary could have said , look, only 45,000

have said, look, only 45,000 came across the channel last yeah came across the channel last year. i think we should take a load more. that would have been an opinion . load more. that would have been an opinion. but to come out and direct lee attack the government . but when you are being paid 1.35 million quid a year, effectively by taxpayers because we don't really have much choice as to whether we buy a bbc licence, clearly was in breach of the rules because the main rule for anyone working for the bbc is not to bring it into disrepute . but in my view disrepute. but in my view clearly he did . but the bbc have clearly he did. but the bbc have brought this upon themselves. they should have been much clearer with him three years ago as to what could and could as to what he could and could not do . so he gets his fellow not do. so he gets his fellow presenters to refuse to appear on programmes. bbc sport is in a panic and this morning tim david, the director general, totally and utterly capitulates. hence game, set and match to lineker . but hence game, set and match to lineker. but far from just accepting that he'd won. no, no, no. that wouldn't be enough. gary lineker now we decide to go

on the offensive and puts out a series of tweets and finishes up by saying a final thought , by saying a final thought, however difficult the last few days have been, it simply does not to having to leave your home, you know, i mean, from persecution or war to seek refuge in a land far away . it's refuge in a land far away. it's heartwarming to have seen empathy towards their plight from so many of you. so he keeps on going. he didn't mention , by on going. he didn't mention, by the way, young albanians coming to join criminal gangs. no. to gary, these are all virtuous people. but it shows that basically he's got away with it. he stopped to fingers up to the bbc this is a big victory , bbc this is a big victory, actually, for the hard left . and actually, for the hard left. and i suspect what will happen next is richard sharpe, the chairman of the board, will be forced out and the bbc effectively will become even more left wing than . it is now. he won't stop doing what he's doing. no doubt he'll be encouraged to be even more provocative as a general

election approaches. who knows .7 election approaches. who knows? maybe match of the day will be sponsored by the labour party. that's a joke . we'll have to that's a joke. we'll have to see. but i think this bodes very badly for a bbc that in my opinion has been getting worse and worse and worse is the bbc now beyond saving? give me your thoughts. barrage at gb news .uk , because i think it may well be. now i'm joined by david keighley, a former bbc news producer and director of newswatch and you have spent many years tracking and monitoring the bbc on the grounds of impartiality . and i grounds of impartiality. and i want to just play you a little clip that i heard 5 to 9 this morning . and this was madiha morning. and this was madiha husain, former bbc employee. he worked here for the guardian. he now works for msnbc in america . now works for msnbc in america. and this is what he had to say about american politics. and then on the us do you think that because a lot the time you're

referring to is i mean, you took on a lot of trump support as i think that's what you're mostly referring to about the battle for democracy . is it is it for democracy. is it is it different now? does it feel different now? does it feel different in the biden time ? i different in the biden time? i wish i could say that is. but donald trump running for office again, just two years again, you know, just two years after he incited armed after he incited an armed insurrection at capitol and insurrection at the capitol and he's more insane he's more extreme, more insane and more anti—democratic than he was in 2020. in the next, he's going to be a regulator. doesn't need to. do you really think that he could become the candidate about ron desantis? if you at polling, he's you look at the polling, he's doubung you look at the polling, he's doubling desantis he's doubling ron desantis lead. he's you guy who will you know, this is a guy who will go scorched earth. and if is 16 republicans in 2016, he's already referred dissenters as a, how a, which is a reminder of how trump limits. and i think trump has no limits. and i think desantis is deeply overrated, has a glass and i think, has a glass jaw. and i think, sadly, trump is probably favourite gop nominee favourite to be the gop nominee again ice country. again in a polar ice country. he's tying biden in the he's tying with biden in the polls, which is remarkable . so polls, which is remarkable. so there . that was the today there we are. that was the today programme this morning you know, you've got a journalist there accused ing the immediate ex president being insane of

president of being insane of leading an armed in insurrection. it's the first time i've heard it used and would in those terms and it's a threat to democracy. there's no counter from the bbc at you know if i sat here david if i sat here you know with an american republican who came out with a string of accusations against biden like that, if i didn't balance and it in some way, i mean , ofcom quite rightly in a mean, ofcom quite rightly in a way, given the legislation, would be on my back , but in your would be on my back, but in your view, the programme's got a bit of a of this. it's certainly, i think the bbc these days inhabhs think the bbc these days inhabits own bubble, it's called confirmation bias and the trouble is that they automation bias explained well the people working within an organisation absorb the values of the culture within which they inhabit . and within which they inhabit. and unfortunately the bbc gradually over the years become much, much

more , as you put so aptly , it more, as you put so aptly, it left leaning and. they don't see it themselves. it's what they think the world is like, yeah and what michelle michelle hassan was doing was not actually putting the count, as you say not putting the counter view at all. it's because it doesn't occur to people like that. you should put the counter view because they think that is presence act. i mean, david, you know , in the past i was know, in the past i was a campaign of britain to leave the eu and you famously did a lot of work that led to the so—called wilson review, where they said on issues like immigration, they would act with impartiality and missing their mistakes of the past. and i thought maybe we'd achieved something of a breakthrough i think bbc now breakthrough i think the bbc now is than ever yes. is worse than it ever was. yes. and basically i believe my organisation and newswatch believes that it's because the complaints process itself is, is, is not, not up to standard it's a joke. in fact the bbc are

still their own judge and jury on matters internal complaints they look after the vast majority and the past year that there's figures they upheld only about 12 complaints through their hq which is a bit like the star chamber internal and they had something like 492,000 complaints in total. had something like 492,000 complaints in total . what we complaints in total. what we need the bbc mid—term review to do which is due to report in may the. dcms is dealing with that at the moment is just to overhaul the complaints system and make it robust and genuinely independent and i think if that happens although the rot is set in so much, it'll be a very difficult turnaround. that would be a challenge . okay. so maybe be a challenge. okay. so maybe the bbc is not hope? no it may be possible there are good journalists at the bbc i come

back to the point that the confirmation bias is that that is fed in in the complaints area and that their editorial standards area by the fact that they're not getting sufficiently robust outside views . so would robust outside views. so would strong government leadership make a difference here? it could do yes, we could do that. yes. what do we learn from the lineker saga of the last few days? what does it tell? well because the bbc not serious about police impartiality, they themselves in knots . and i think themselves in knots. and i think what happened with tim davie over the past few days is he got scared of the he thought that was going to be a mass turn off or something and yet the polling shows that he three quarters of the country think lineker was wrong to say what he said they made up a thought he should lose his job over it. yes. but on the issue saying that to try and stop illegal immigration and comparing the home secretary and

prime minister to goebbels of the gang the vast majority of the gang the vast majority of the country were in a different place. what was they be scared of? i don't really know precisely . i mean, it's precisely. i mean, it's staggering really . a man of his staggering really. a man of his experiences is so at sea over this . but the experiences is so at sea over this. but the point experiences is so at sea over this . but the point is experiences is so at sea over this. but the point is there are guidelines which say high profile presenters and they took a lot at the bbc , took a lot of a lot at the bbc, took a lot of trouble to introduce these the past few years , high profile past few years, high profile presenters should not engage in political issues in the way that gary lineker did. yeah overtly party politics. yes so may's a big moment. yeah it is. yes the build up to me and where we've been challenging the bbc over many months and years now and gradually we're pushing towards a we're doing a judicial we've got permission to go for a judicial review of how they judge impartiality, where challenging them on freedom of

information matters and i think they are at the moment they just don't know what to do come back to as it may tell us what the outcome this is and tell us whether or not there is going to be a genuine independent body to impartiality. because i tell you what, if david, keith doesn't get his way that do believe the bbc is beyond saving and the moment will have come to open and clearly call for the licence fee simply to end. maybe we'll give them just this one last chance, but it really a last chance. in a moment, professor matthew goodwin comes in. he's got a new book. he's got to tell us the westminster to the mob behind us here are actually even more out of touch ordinary folk than they were before the brexit referendum. of that in referendum. all of that in couple of minutes .

or it's on the bbc. is or it's on the bbc . is it or it's on the bbc. is it beyond hope? one viewer says abolish the tv , make the bbc go the tv, make the bbc go independent and broadcast as it pleases. everyone wins. it's the best and fairest way forward to make. says yes. best and fairest way forward to make. says yes . the best and fairest way forward to make. says yes. the bbc is just a lefty mouthpiece. tv tax should end now . and martin says should end now. and martin says the bbc has had its day well may be the whole model of the licence fee has had its day. maybe i was being overly generous by saying give them last chance to set up an independent body outside of the bbc's four walls. now professor matthew goodwin , professor of matthew goodwin, professor of politics at university of kent . politics at university of kent. in the past, matthew, in the run to the brexit referendum happening, the result the 2019 landslide you've written in the past about national populism, you've written about the disconnect. yeah between westminster and ordinary folk .

westminster and ordinary folk. but you've come back with a new book, values voice and virtue, which is almost like a temperature test of where we are today. and from what i can tell , having not yet read it well, i can tell you're kind saying actually on many issues of political classes, even further apart than it was before brexit. i think i think that's true in many ways. i mean, this book essentially tries to explain how we got here. and if you look at the last ten years of british politics, the way i see it, we had three big revolts that changed the we the changed the country. we had the rise of parties like ukip yourself. we had to vote for brexit. we then had the election of boris johnson and that realignment, our politics, the fall wall and what fall of the red wall and what i've to do in the book is i've tried to do in the book is basically say, where did all of this from and where are we this come from and where are we going? in short, going? and the answer in short, that now have a new elite in that we now have a new elite in this country that doesn't really reflect the values of a majority of the country , doesn't give of the country, doesn't give many people a serious voice in the institutions, and doesn't

see all groups in society as having the same virtue or the same sense moral worth as other groups . and yet we're constantly groups. and yet we're constantly heanng groups. and yet we're constantly hearing political leaders talking about diversity . right. talking about diversity. right. you know, we're given the impression that westminster is now more diverse, that it ever was before . isn't that true? was before. isn't that true? well of my arguments in the book is that if you look at most of our institutions, if you look at the house of commons just over there, you look at the media, creative industries, cultural institutions , the universities , institutions, the universities, the civil service . yes, they the civil service. yes, they like to talk about diversity . like to talk about diversity. they're not actually that diverse at all. they tend to be dominated by people from the same backgrounds who went to the same backgrounds who went to the same universities, who tend to the of values . and if the same sets of values. and if you look, for example, at the, you look, for example, at the, you know the gary lineker saga would a good example of this. would be a good example of this. often world view that often the world view that is celebrated in these institutions is not held by people outside of those institutions. and on these new culture war questions, the small boats crisis , britishness,

small boats crisis, britishness, who we are, immigration and crime . that divide is as big crime. that divide is as big today as it was at any point really in recent in recent years. so in the book, what i'm trying say is, look, i think we can do a better as a country of trying to close these divides. here are some suggestions for how we might do that. but first of all, let's get real about why we're here in the first place. some numbers are some of the numbers here are quite extraordinary. six out of ten britain ten people think britain is broken. them. seven broken. i'm one of them. seven out of ten think that the experts in this country don't understand people like them. that's disconnect . and that's a real disconnect. and 50. are you telling us 50% of british people think that none of the main parties represent their priorities and values . their priorities and values. yeah, there's millions of people, 50% there. depends you ask the question some some questions. would suggest this. even the numbers are even larger than that. look there are lots of people out there who are looking left and right, probably watching this show and thinking nobody speaks for

nobody in politics speaks for me, nobody represents my values. nobody gives voice. this nobody gives me a voice. this book partly written for those people because i think if you look at our national conversation if look at the conversation if you look at the way talk about britain, you way we talk about britain, you know, essentially, only talk know, essentially, you only talk about britain really if. you're equating britishness with diversity . it's almost like diversity. and it's almost like saying we don't have a like we don't have identity our don't have an identity of our own. we know what we do own. we don't know what we do we're of we're we're ashamed of it. we're ashamed well, that's ashamed of our. well, that's also i talk about, is that also what i talk about, is that also what i talk about, is that a section within the elite who i call the progressives, the radical progressives. they radical progressives. and they really look on the really do look down on the country. obsessed country. they are obsessed with this britain is this idea that britain is institutionally they're institutionally racist. they're obsessed talking about obsessed with talking about empire. they are absolutely convinced that rights of minorities have not gone far enough. they need to go further. they're quite ashamed of their british identity and they also dominate many of the they represent about 15% of the country. but out out there. there are lots of people , even there are lots of people, even after brexit, even after the 2019 election, or even still today , are saying they're not

today, are saying they're not really in the conversation, they're not switching to labour, by the way. no, they're not switching to anybody. they're giving up on politics saying they're not going to at the they're not going to vote at the next election. i mean this is my big fear. we've got, you know, about a third of the country to 40% voters saying, i'm just 40% of voters saying, i'm just disengaging, enough disengaging, i've had enough tried change system , tried to change the system, can't and i suppose can't be bothered. and i suppose in self—interested way, in a self—interested way, writing book was an attempt writing this book was an attempt to dialogue with them, to to have a dialogue with them, to say, look , you know, i'm out say, look, you know, i'm out here having a conversation about the way feel about country, the way you feel about country, but it's also about having a dialogue with the people in the institutions saying, you institutions and saying, you don't these voters institutions and saying, you d

republicans isn't what are the problems iwell, they're almost republicans isn't what are the problems iwell, ihey're almost republicans isn't what are the problems well, i think almost republicans isn't what are the problems well, i think over)st republicans isn't what are the problems well, i think over the the same. well, i think over the last decade, a lot of people were looking a challenge to the consensus. were looking a challenge to the consensus . call the liberal consensus. i call the liberal consensus. i call the liberal consensus. that's dominated britain for 50 years, pro—immigration pro globalisation pro eu pro—social liberalism . since brexit, we've liberalism. since brexit, we've basically got more of the same. i mean, we've got more immigration, we've got basically an elite that sort of is very regretful that we've left the eu and we stopped saying how bad brexit is. we've got a continued embrace of globalisation , embrace of globalisation, putting the interests of big business ahead of the national community and we've got this sort of escalation of this kind of woke politics, this obsession , racial easing, everything of, of from schools to universities to the media. we just cannot stop ourselves talking about race and ethnicity . this new race and ethnicity. this new gender identity politics. and i think we have to take a step back from this. i mean, we're not america have a completely different history. we have a completely policy. i think completely policy. and i think we get back to trying to

we need to get back to trying to think about the things that actually unify us as a country and positioning groups and not positioning groups against simply against one another simply because racial or their because of their racial or their ethnic gender identity ethnic or their gender identity . recipe for disaster . that is a recipe for disaster . i better eat it . there you go. . i better eat it. there you go. there we are. values voice and virtue by matthew goodman. out in a couple of week's time. thank you very much indeed for. coming in and sharing that with us and yeah, out of touch. well tell you what, you look at the polling, you look at the polling on whether people think the government right at least government are right to at least attempt to try to stop illegal crossings in the channel. and you overwhelming you find an overwhelming majority in the majority actually agree in the moment, i'll be joined by lee anderson, deputy chairman the anderson, deputy chairman of the conservative, just kept coming in to talk about his latest campaign , and that is to try and campaign, and that is to try and educate children at school about the risks and threats of suicide

an e—petition signed by 159,000 people reached westminster hall for debate earlier on today. people reached westminster hall for debate earlier on today . and for debate earlier on today. and quite simply, it calls for suicide prevention to be made a compulsory part of the national curriculum. what are the mps that spoke in that debate today? was anderson conservative member of parliament for ashfield. here he was earlier. for a man to watch a little boy from a baby grow up means enjoy and to take his life in that way. and graham feels he feels broken . he feels he feels broken. he probably feels guilty and it feels hopeless. but all of that, it's none of those things is not is not guilty and is not because graham's working with this charity and he's going to raise thousands and thousands of pounds and graham wholeheartedly support . the idea of putting support. the idea of putting this on the school curriculum and helping people and getting

people talk to save some lives . people talk to save some lives. so i guess what i'd say to the minister, mr. stringer , is minister, mr. stringer, is please look at these families here. these are broken people and we need to see less of these families coming to this place. we need to. we need to get this on the school curriculum. and we need to save lives. thank you, mr. chairman. well joined by lee anderson here in the studio and by graham link, the constitu that lee was talking about earlier . lee that lee was talking about earlier. lee suicide in the under forties. earlier. lee suicide in the under forties . biggest of death under forties. biggest of death . what got you? obviously graham's a constituent. what? what what got you onto this problem ? obviously, graham, my problem? obviously, graham, my constituent lost his son just before christmas. nobody saw it coming. and so as soon as it happened, you , graham, that help happened, you, graham, that help him? i found out there was a debate today, so i put him not to speak in that debate. that's about getting suicide awareness back on on the curriculum. so

people talk to two specialists in school because i say, no, this is the biggest killer of young men, the fault in this country's epidemic level. nobody's talking about but they're about it now . they're talking about it now. graham, i know. fair play to him. he's campaigning now. you know didn't himself know, he didn't realise himself how between 12 and 14 people a day taking their lives. it's unbelievable. and so this terrible, terrible tragedy which which i'm sure fergie hoping to get a little good out of this the campaign to get it on the curriculum. graham's raising money asking money and we're just asking people . just, you know, people to talk. just, you know, it's thing to talk it's not a manly thing to talk it's not a manly thing to talk it days. it's isn't it it these days. it's isn't it funny, though, because on that curriculum, we teach people about all of things. and about all sorts of things. and there debates about the there are debates about the weather, of what's taught weather, some of what's taught to is reasonable or not. to kids is reasonable or not. yes, but that's know. but the point is we're supposed to be helping to round off children . helping to round off children. and this this you're saying is just missed out the curriculum. there's some things in school that we should not be talking about, a different about, but that's a different debate. about debate. now, you know all about this there's things this and there's some things that be talking about.

that we should be talking about. and suicide is one of those things, you know, young people, i today, for i think for people today, for young people, they schoolchildren taking the schoolchildren are taking the chance outdated. i don't chance to see outdated. i don't think did. graham i think it did. graham link. i mean you've been through a, you know, horrendous recent. yes. personal very personal tragedy. and i'm very sorry but you're sorry for that. but you're i you're one of those people who was very bad in life happens you try pick up and do try and pick it up and do something positive it. something positive about it. exactly. only i exactly. that's the only thing i can sure. took his own life can do. sure. took his own life to send a big shock to us. it was my best friend as well as my son. no idea . was my best friend as well as my son. no idea. no inkling, nothing. it was with us. the before day , after he had done no before day, after he had done no letter , nothing until you lose letter, nothing until you lose somebody. this way, you don't fully . i was. wasn't it? where fully. i was. wasn't it? where all these criminal . so all these all these criminal. so all these statistics, the suicide wasn't. i am now . and the only way i can i am now. and the only way i can get around it is to help other

people. so i've committed myself to doing certain charity events to doing certain charity events to help a local mental health group and lighting the shadows, which is a nottingham based group. i want to do my for best them. that's the only way i can get around it. well, graham, i'm sorry for what you've been through, but you're quite right. strands of the positive. and i get the point. i get the point. it's a conversation that needs be had with teenagers because it is what chances it is a problem. what chances it got? i every chance is got? i think every chance is a suicide strategy coming out later on this year. well, no, i just want to close saying suicide not means tested. you know, it affects whether you're rich poor, successful or rich or poor, successful or unsuccessful, whether you're a council estate or a country state, it can any of us, you know, with with help of know, with with the help of graham these other charities graham and these other charities are shine are going to really shine a light on this and make sure it gets on the school curriculum. gentlemen, those gentlemen, thank you. and those of watching, we've got the of you watching, we've got the samaritans details on samaritans as details on your screen. problems? screen. you've got any problems? that's a number you call that's a number you can call a very valuable, organic zation, which very set up all of which had very set up all of those years ago . a couple of

those years ago. a couple of little thoughts from . what the little thoughts from. what the farage moment. little thoughts from. what the farage moment . junior doctors farage moment. junior doctors are on strike. it's a 72 hour strike. they're not even going to get involved with genuine life saving work . well, we had life saving work. well, we had a little bit of a problem with mother yesterday. a suspected stroke . probably a very good stroke. probably a very good thing. she had it yesterday and not today, because we took her in to local hospital. the in to a local hospital. the princess i have to say , for princess and i have to say, for all faults of the nhs , yes. all the faults of the nhs, yes. if you are really you've got a broken hand . you might sit there broken hand. you might sit there for 12 hours before you get treated. you're a genuine medical emergency and the treatment and testing she last night was absolutely second to none but i wonder how many people today whose mothers and fathers may have a similar problem will fine, but don't get any medical treatment all and how lives may and i'm how many lives that may and i'm sorry doctors i'm really sorry junior doctors i'm really sorry junior doctors i'm really sorry . but to say that your pay sorry. but to say that your pay is falling behind since 2008, therefore demand an immediate 26% increase in your salary is wholly unrealistic , just doesn't

wholly unrealistic, just doesn't work. talking your strikes, we got problems with strikes. have a look at france president macron wants to increase the pension age from 62 to 64. they're all going bonkers and in the streets of paris . the the streets of paris. the rubbish is up because the bill rots strike and much of paris looks a bit like london . the looks a bit like london. the winter of discontent . 78 to 79. winter of discontent. 78 to 79. i'm not laughing at their misfortune, genuinely . if i do misfortune, genuinely. if i do fault, i final thought what the friars thought the silicon valley bank. what are the most inclusive and diverse ? diverse inclusive and diverse? diverse and trendy and right on in the world? yes they were so full of virtue that guess they have gone bankrupt . i have to say for once bankrupt. i have to say for once , i think the government and the treasury and the civil service acted very quickly over the weekend to make sure that no uk depositors would lose money and it was done without a penny of

taxpayers money. so my for once because i don't think government should be bailing everything out they been bought by h who of course are rather close to china whether that's a good thing for our tech sector in britain remains to be seen. but i promise you this thing, all of these investment companies and banks and funds who say their esg investors, they are that aware of their corporate social responsibility , they somehow responsibility, they somehow think you can make money out of big virtues. i tell you what, they're all going to go bust. believe me. in believe you me. now, in a moment, i'll be joined on talking by ali maraj. talking points by ali maraj. he's a conservative he's been a conservative campaigner. he's been deejay . campaigner. he's been a deejay. he's now a broadcaster. and he runs called the runs something called the contrarian prize. never heard of it. you will in just a moment.

it's that time of day. it's talking points. i'm joined by ali maraj ali. welcome to the program. as you know, you are a bit of a polymath, really. i accountants are businessmen and was a conservative councillor and was conservative where a conservative campaign in a and you've been a deejay house music i understand somewhat well maybe the mind out of course will come in the end of the contrarian prize british muslim pakistani . prize british muslim pakistani. what got you involved with the conservative party. well, actually, my parents were very political , not not in a actually, my parents were very political, not not in a party sense, but they were both conservatives . and i grew up in conservatives. and i grew up in a household. i always remember there were three tunes to programmes, always you remember. one was question time, the other one's a panorama. and the third was match of the day, which has been quite topical at the last week. so i was brought up in a very left wing, if you want measure on the day somebody

said, well, these were my parents very political . in parents were very political. in fact, my, my maternal grandfather was also the first commissioner of karachi peace politician , pakistan. so politician, pakistan. so politics was always discussed the table and my parents mother was a doctor. my father was an engineer were small c conservatives. they always voted conservative. and that was sort of ingrained in me. and i didn't automatically follow my parents, but i was always very passionate about politics, studied it at a—level went to a university in london ready international relations politics of the world and always that it was and then always that it was important. nigel as you did to try and get in there, get on the pitch and try and do something. you did and you were, you know, a counsellor at a very young age. you stood for the age. and then you stood for the tories in the oh one election and the 85 election and actually with birth of the a—listers with the birth of the a—listers , with the desire for conservative party to be more diverse . yeah, perhaps it had diverse. yeah, perhaps it had been, you have been absolutely out there. what went wrong?

well, who knows? i think timing is everything in politics. i think my timing a little bit off i went in a little bit early. i fought the election in 2001, first in wales and i think nigel, i've always been a believer that you should do your political in politics is going to be the only area of life where you don't have to do any apprenticeship at all. i mean, you appoint a first year medical student, perform open heart, you don't a year don't appoint a first year graduate a bank. so and graduate to run a bank. so and yet got health drink . yet we've got health drink. there are always exceptions to the rule . but look, i was always the rule. but look, i was always a believer that you do you know who percy? i mean , i managed to who percy? i mean, i managed to beat captain beeny from new millennium being played on a milk crate in the middle of that braving coming up braving being people coming up to me saying, we can't vote for your we're turning the your parents. we're turning the great, getting great, but you go just getting the of the safest labour the and one of the safest labour seats in the country. so i did that to watford was that went to watford which was a marginal really worked hard marginal yeah really worked hard put on the pitch on put everything on the pitch on that one. but sometimes timing doesn't work. i got doesn't work. then i sort of got to point where i'd given

everything time do everything and it was time to do something i love something else. but i love politics fascinated by politics i'm fascinated by politics. that's why, you know, i at it from a different i look at it from a different angle i comment on angle now. i comment on politics, of politics, gives you a sort of freedom nigel that you don't get when having when you're having to be effectively to the effectively whipped to toe the party you only be doing party line. you only be doing the on lbc doing some the work on lbc and doing some broadcasting. used to broadcasting. and i used to express opinions and we've express your opinions and we've won gb as a commentator on, won gb news as a commentator on, you know, the programmes you know, many of the programmes over 21 months. it's over the last 21 months. it's actually got actually since we first got going. obviously a going. so there's obviously a real that massively , real passion that massively, massively and yet this is what interests the country area interests me. the country area prize. now i have to say, folks , that i am not very happy with this place . how and the name of this place. how and the name of the lord can you have an annual contrarian prize ? i not have won contrarian prize? i not have won it. well, you've been nominated twice, so i'm going to declare i will be gb news first. i've really been down to me. you would have won. but it's a judge decision , panel decision and i'm decision, panel decision and i'm not a dictator. even i founded

prize and i largely fund it myself with my whole heart. and often it sounds very badly organised. but look, the reason why. i've always respected you on that and i'll just give you stood up. if you look at the contrary price, why did i set it on? i it up in 2012 because if you go back that particular point we'd had the phone hacking scandal where the hillsborough cover by the police with 97 cover up by the police with 97 people died and nothing was done. parliamentary done. we'd had the parliamentary expenses scandal, we'd had a financial crisis and i thought myself, earth going myself, what on earth is going on society that all on in british society that all these institutions that were meant led country meant to have led our country let us there was a trust let us down. there was a trust deficit at the time . and two deficit at the time. and two other things. i mean, one, it was very personal me when i was a parliamentary you a parliamentary candidate, you mentioned parliament mentioned i stood for parliament back three. i remember back in oh three. i remember being channel 4 news a few being on channel 4 news a few days began, days after the iraq war began, being about my view on the being asked about my view on the iraq war. and i said, look, i'm sorry, i think is wrong. sorry, i think this is wrong. now, that put particular now, the ad that put particular point time. you'll remember point in time. you'll remember the the the tories backing the government iraq war. government line on the iraq war. and thought to myself, and i thought to myself, sometimes you've got choose

sometimes you've got to choose the or the path of conviction or convenience. know, you can't convenience. you know, you can't you always be bystander. you can't always be a bystander. no to the heart no and this gets to the heart out, think that's a very out, i think that's a very fundamental insight that, you know, up at school know, i was brought up at school and taught something i think rather valuable called critical thinking. absolutely you know, here's a problem . here are two here's a problem. here are two potential solutions and you make your mind up. you know, you go pick it up an ugly enough now to make your own mind up. which of those you think is the right approach? here's my concern my concern is that throughout our educational establishment and through the twitter mobs that exist, that now reach a point where young are told these are too solutions, what is virtuous and, good, and the other is evil? absolutely they're actually thinking standing from the crowd, young people are terrified. i get emails them all the time. it's absolutely ridiculous. i mean, we've seen the closing down of debate massively. it's happening in all university . it started there and

university. it started there and it also came from america and that's where it originally originated . now you have originated. now you have a situation where 50% of academics in all universities here are worried about actually expressing a view because they're worried about their future career path. and you have a situation always a situation where i've always believed that if genuinely believed that if you genuinely care issues , you've got to care about issues, you've got to talk to contrarians. in my view. one never wanted to be one who never wanted to be contrarian. wanted to keep contrarian. they wanted to keep their down, come their head down, but they come to a in the road where to a point in the road where they have to silent or speak out. for example, the first winner the prize, michael, winner of the prize, michael, former olympus former ceo of olympus corporation, to after corporation, went to japan after 30 for the company 30 years working for the company discovered at $1.8 billion fraud, of the fraud, went to the board of the company five letters said i want to investigate you and they fired lost job for fired him. he lost his job for doing right thing. first ceo doing the right thing. first ceo in history the whistle in history to blow the whistle on own company all peter on his own company all peter tatchell, 55 years campaigner . tatchell, 55 years campaigner. he's contrarian since he he's been contrarian since he was in nappies. that's right, yeah. literally it literally got his head kicked in by robert mugabe's bodyguards do mugabe's bodyguards trying to do a whether you a citizen's arrest. whether you agree tatchell or not, you agree with tatchell or not, you can't say that he doesn't put

himself harm's way what he himself in harm's way what he believes in. and i wanted to recognise both of these types of people. you're absolutely right. now it's now we have a situation. it's complete mentality . i mean, complete mob mentality. i mean, you on social media, there's you go on social media, there's no discussion going on. there's no discussion going on. there's no nuance debate, there's no listening side of listening to the other side of the to even improve the argument to even improve your none it. your own. none of it. it's moralising you're absolutely moralising. you're absolutely right. disagree , you are right. if you disagree, you are dismissed evil. right. if you disagree, you are dismissed evil . yeah. oh, and dismissed as evil. yeah. oh, and i was certainly thought to be evil by the establishment, but daring. to challenge daring. yeah. to challenge this. this view. yeah we this consensus view. yeah we were part of europe and that our way forward and everything else but equally when you think about open free speech and debate. yeah of course you talked about 2012 and the circumstance that led you to set up a contract room prize. yeah we know better now. i know. we know now. and what you have now is a very interesting because you look at the demise of religion in the country. so less than half of the in our country now, the people in our country now, 45% christian. now 45% identify as christian. now you would have thought that that is a advance perhaps into a

secular society? no, not at all. the new religion is around the new religion now is around certain views that are deemed acceptable , and if you deviate acceptable, and if you deviate from those, you are dismissed as a fruitcake and a crackpot and someone should be closed someone who should be closed down. now, is very, very down. now, that is very, very rude. cakes and loonies would rude. cakes and loonies we would call didn't like she will come to the end that the fruitcakes had revenge . the point had their revenge. but the point is that you can't have a situation the whole devil's advocate right in the advocate concept right in the catholic church. why because they wanted to put up people for canonisation, for sainthood. and the advocate justifiably behind closed doors, meant to completely to shreds people who were putting up for sainthood. why? because they didn't want to embarrass putting embarrass themselves by putting someone who would be trashed by. people. the skeletons were people. all the skeletons were meant before meant to be coming out before and similarly when you have and now. similarly when you have ideas, they're put up to scrutiny. they just closed down. how you even improve your how can you even improve your own if you don't own arguing? and if you don't subjected to the force of reality, the people find the whole thing repulsive. it's completely fact completely silly. and the fact that i disagree with you, therefore i hate you and i'm

completely crazy and i've never been of that opinion. of course, if i got on rather well with jean—claude juncker, i had jean—claude juncker, if i had a right you know, and i get right laugh, you know, and i get people programme with people on this programme with very view very different points of view i'd treat everybody i'd try and treat everybody with, you know, the same. i've always found that you've done that and i, for me that because you and i, for me on brexit particularly , it was on brexit particularly, it was a finely balanced judgement and you the, i came on you know, the, i came on a different of the to you on different side of the to you on that just slightly, but i always respected nigel in sense respected you nigel in sense that you had that just because you had a particular , you out particular view, you stood out from advocated from the crowd and advocated that it was a fringe that when it was a fringe position, it became mainstream position, it became a mainstream one mean, you went one over years. i mean, you went from contrary into to mainstream that happens. okay. that is often happens. okay. basically you would argue something different. but something different. but but but contrarians, , often contrarians, in my view, often are dismissed and are the ones who very often will be the ones in ten or 20 years time will be proved right or they actually move society to that historically. they're very important. absolutely now you're a british muslim and deal. important. absolutely now you're a british muslim and deal . and i a british muslim and deal. and i remember once you came to strasbourg . great times and

strasbourg. yes great times and itook strasbourg. yes great times and i took you out for dinner at cheapest dinner i ever bought because as a devout muslim , you because as a devout muslim, you did not touch the devil. the devil's by the how are we getting , in devil's by the how are we getting, in your view , devil's by the how are we getting , in your view , with getting, in your view, with integration in society , muslims, integration in society, muslims, christians, everybody ? how are christians, everybody? how are we doing? well, i worry about it and i touch on some of these issues on my show, as well, and talking about some of these things do think that amongst my some of my muslim compatriots there is a of a denial of there is a little of a denial of an issue within community around extremism. right this not extremism. right and this is not to that every muslim is to say that every muslim is extremist, because, course, extremist, because, of course, they're are they're not most of them are going their business going about their business trying to earn a crust like everyone else. but to simply deny a minority deny that there is a minority fringe who are who basically to eradicate us for whatever reasons they have with a warped ideology, is to fail to address the we have to call it out. and again, it's around debates about ideology so it's very easy to just sit back and say oh i deny these people they're not part of

my religion. they're muslims. so i wash my hands of, the whole thing too easy in my view i think there's a for the think there's a battle for the soul the religion that needs soul of, the religion that needs to take now more generally to take place now more generally on this one on race relations. this is one of the fantastic countries of the most fantastic countries in world to be from any in the world to be from any background, you can achieve whatever you in this whatever you want in this country. find it really country. so i find it really that constantly racialise that people constantly racialise things been having debate things been having this debate the show a nigel the weekend on the show a nigel on my show we talk about on my show where we talk about suella braverman patel suella braverman priti patel and rishi sunak being hard on small boats, which an issue you've boats, which is an issue you've been about and been talking about a lot and people again moralising saying how could they do this whether they're sons and daughters of immigrants themselves. i think it's irrational a logical bizarre. yes i mean, do the current cabinet sound like goebbels in the gang? do you know, not at all. and the thing that the very that you make that just someone comes from a particular background and then they will have a particular view. i think is really quite sinister and odd quite honestly, i worry i really worry about it. so this is a great country to be from any background you get

anywhere your merit, what anywhere on your merit, what people want to see and every person to see irrespective person wants to see irrespective of my the of background. in my view, the majority want see fair play majority want to see fair play when get about people when they get about is people abusing system come across. abusing the system come across. they want to equity and they just want to equity and fairness and if you want to come across coming normal across coming via the normal immigration applying the way immigration or applying the way and if there are not enough safe and if there are not enough safe and legal routes go and lobby for government to for those our government is to be at it can't people be look at it can't pay people smugglers you're to be smugglers you're going to be disappointed i couldn't agree more i want go on more and i want you to go on being contrary. thanks, bobby rush, for me rush, thank you for joining me is nigeria . we've got time very is nigeria. we've got time very quickly for barrage. barrage. what is today's crop going to bnng what is today's crop going to bring me? one viewer asks, does lineker's victory over the bbc mean that free speech is back for all or just those ? for him, for all or just those? for him, it's acceptable to woke liberal left. look this wasn't a debate free speech. you know the bbc has a very clear rule whether you're an employee or whether a

contractor you do not bring the bbc into disrepute and whatever i may or may not think about suella braverman and the rest of them they are not goebbels . and them they are not goebbels. and them they are not goebbels. and the gag it was an absolutely crass comparison, an insult in fact to many who did suffer at the hands of those people. it wasn't about free speech. it really, really wasn't. now, the bbc , you see, i'm a softie on bbc, you see, i'm a softie on the bbc i think we'll give them one last chance. one last chance. can we by set up an independent panel. but a hardliner who just walked into the studio . oh, so much more the studio. oh, so much more extreme as jacob rees—mogg . yes, extreme as jacob rees—mogg. yes, that's it. you're done with them now? yeah. i think the beeb has suffered from the licence fee , suffered from the licence fee, that the licence fee has meant it's been a comfort blanket, it hasn't grown its revenues when other media companies surpassed it. sky's revenues are bigger netflix revenues are bigger . netflix revenues are bigger. these companies didn't exist 1030 years ago and therefore the bbc, for its own interest, needs to diversify its sources of

revenue and the licence fee is no longerjustified . you're no longer justified. you're going to hear all of this from jacob at length with debate , jacob at length with debate, with someone who disagrees with them fundamentally. it's going to a show coming up to be a great show coming up with jacob rees—mogg. i'm back with jacob rees—mogg. i'm back with tomorrow night 7:00. with you tomorrow night at 7:00. but before all of that, before jacob, get the all jacob, let's get the all important . hello and important weather. hello and welcome your evening weather with me, luke . now, as we head with me, luke. now, as we head through this evening, it is going to turn colder across the united kingdom. we've got rain heading southwards with frost ice , snow to follow. and that's ice, snow to follow. and that's down to this cold front. you can see we've had tightly packed ice files today that's brought a lot of wind around across the of strong wind around across the country. but that front slips country. but as that front slips its way , the south—east, you can its way, the south—east, you can see the colder air digging in behind snow and ice warnings in force as we head through tonight and tomorrow. showers will and into tomorrow. showers will affect northern and western areas. but it's this band of rain , sleet and snow that pushes rain, sleet and snow that pushes way southwards, giving snow up over the higher grounds and temperatures dropping in its wake . subzero across the north

wake. subzero across the north with widespread frost and ice . with widespread frost and ice. so a very cold start to the day here. we'll continue to see wintry showers feeding in, falling as snow to fairly low levels across the far north. but generally, as we head into northern england, northern ireland and north wales, it's mostly above 1 to 200 metres, but for the south through tuesday, a different feeling day, a lot more in the way of sunshine around. still quite a keen breeze, but this time coming in from the northwest, which make feel somewhat which will make it feel somewhat colder today colder than it has done today through tuesday evening. then we continue to rain, sleet and continue to the rain, sleet and snow way snow trekking its way south eastwards, very cold and tucking in the blue really on the map there. it's turning much colder with a widespread frost as we start wednesday morning . start wednesday morning. temperatures typically in our towns and falling below freezing , but out in the countryside, it will be a lot colder than this, especially where there's remaining snow cover on the ground through wednesday morning. then it's a bright and sunny start for many northern

and eastern parts of the uk. but skies clouding over to the west and heavy rain pushing in soon after with the potential for some snow on its fairly leading edge , staying unsettled through edge, staying unsettled through the rest of week, but milder again friday or.

good evening you with gb news in a moment headliners. but first, let's bring you the latest news headunes let's bring you the latest news headlines and our top story tonight, british firm rolls—royce will help build new fleet of nuclear powered submarines as part of a new pact between the uk, australia and the united states to bolster defences and create thousands of jobs. the prime minister , his jobs. the prime minister, his australian counterpart, anthony albanese and us president biden met in san diego california to

announce the next stage of the so—called orcas program . it was so—called orcas program. it was signed initially by three nafionsin signed initially by three nations in 2021 to boost defence's and counter china's threat in indo—pacific region . threat in indo—pacific region. and this news comes as number today announced defence spending will rise by almost £5 billion over two years. rishi sunak is called the trilateral orcas submarine , the most significant, submarine, the most significant, multi—layered defence partnership in the comes to this with over 60 years experience of running our own fleet will provide the world leading design and build the first of these new boats creating thousands of good jobs in places like barrow and derby and we will share our knowledge and experience with australian engineers so they can build their own fleet . now australian engineers so they can build their own fleet. now our partnership is significant because , not just are we because, not just are we building submarines together will also be truly interoperable

. can