channel coming up on today's camilla tominey show, i'm going to be joined by former chancellor kwasi kwarteng to discuss his reaction to jeremy hunt's budget and also reflect on the reaction to his mini—budget last year. i'll also be joined by the conservatives oliver dowden, labour's niece anandi and i'll be asking my generation gaffers whether we should abolish the monarchy. but first, here's the news headlines with aaron

armstrong . a good morning. it's armstrong. a good morning. it's 9:30. i'm aaron armstrong . in 9:30. i'm aaron armstrong. in the gb newsroom, the home secretary is planning to deport migrants to rwanda by this summer. suella braverman says it's dependent on pending legal battles, but has indicated the uk could leave the european court of human rights if it can't move with the plan? the agreement rwanda has been expanded to incorporate all those illegally entering the uk as opposed to solely asylum seekers . boris johnson will seekers. boris johnson will pubush seekers. boris johnson will publish evidence in his over allegations he misled parliament over party gates. he's expected to provide the commons privileges committee with a dossier tomorrow. ahead of giving evidence on wednesday , if giving evidence on wednesday, if found guilty, he could be suspended . the commons, which suspended. the commons, which would trigger a bail action. he denies misleading . vladimir denies misleading. vladimir putin's made a surprise visit to the ukrainian city, mariupol.

according to state media. if confirmed it would be his first visit to a newly occupied ukrainian territory since the start of the war. the port city fell may after being devastated by forces in one of the longest battles of the conflict . the battles of the conflict. the visit comes a day after the international criminal court issued an arrest warrant for him . tv online and dab+ radio. this is gb news, but now it is back to camilla tominey tominey. well, good morning and welcome to the camilla tominey show. happy day to you all. from this working mother, apparently i have it all. i find that actually i just have to do it all. it's not so much having it all. it's not so much having it all. it's not so much having it all. it's doing it all. but try our best. i look to our best. i look forward to being a wee reunited with my children. hopefully with vases of if of flowers and chocolates if

they're little later. they're watching a little later. but to get but we've got a lot to get through the 90 through over the next 90 minutes. not least this interview that we've got lined up is ready to go, up with who is ready to go, what's to speak about the budget wants to speak about his own budget. to budget. so it's going to be absolutely fascinating. let's just the just talk you through the newspaper front pages, of newspaper front pages, first of all, bring in my paper all, before i bring in my paper reviewer , the sunday telegraph. reviewer, the sunday telegraph. migrant flights , rwanda by migrant flights, rwanda by summer. report that's on summer. they report that's on the back, of course, of a sort of providence trip to kigali . of providence trip to kigali. the sunday times. john lewis , the sunday times. john lewis, eyes up. biggest shake up in 150 years. this is about it. perhaps ditching its shareholder model and looking for an inward investment because it's fallen on hard times. investment because it's fallen on hard times . the observer on hard times. the observer johnson makes last ditch bid to discredit probe into partygate. we'll be discussing story in just a moment. the sunday mirror, britain should be proud of lineker says one of the ukrainians that he has accommodated in his house in the sunday express . first, rwanda sunday express. first, rwanda asylum flights this summer on brother man's trip to kigali .

brother man's trip to kigali. the mail on sunday surjewala all said both migrants to rwanda by summer again sticking to that timetable , doubling down on that timetable, doubling down on that policy . and the sun on sunday policy. and the sun on sunday says bgt in crossbow stunt fury . the least perhaps said about the better and to say that michael portillo former defence secretary and of course my gb news presenter who's here from 11 has dashed to the studio making his way back to his studio to review the papers with me. michael delighted to see you as ever . me. michael delighted to see you as ever. happy mother's day to come on. thank you much, indeed. now let's kick off with this really interesting story. now, this is in the sunday times. we're calling it global we're calling it our global story day because story of the day, because this is who has is the prosecutor who has managed to bring this case or at least put this case before the icc about putin. tell me more . icc about putin. tell me more. well, the lead prosecutor at the moment is a brit, a british barrister , kerim khan. i think barrister, kerim khan. i think his name is . barrister, kerim khan. i think his name is. he has given a very interesting interview to the sunday times. he has travelled

extensively to ukraine, think he's made a full visit before on the prosecution that will be made against vladimir putin. interestingly, the subject to the prosecution that they've chosen is the abduction of children. there have been many other reported war crimes, but they've chosen this because it so well documented and it is clear that this is an official russian policy. the children, when they've been abducted , when they've been abducted, ukraine, are paraded stadia in russia and they therefore think they have the best chance of a conviction on this subject . many conviction on this subject. many people will say this is all ridiculous because there's no way vladimir putin will ever appear a talk. i would take a dissenting view to that. i would say that i remember from my jeans in politics when i was defence secretary, we had milosevic and karadzic and mladic in the former yugoslavia . there was a fellow called charles taylor in liberia. all of these people did end up in the dock. all of these people ended up in prison.

the dock. all of these people ended up in prison . and i also ended up in prison. and i also think that what the international criminal court has donein international criminal court has done in case of putin, is just a start. there will be other there is already another russian indicted . there will be other indicted. there will be other names that will be and the thing will be coming increasingly complicated as those find that there are 123 countries to which they cannot travel for fear of they cannot travel for fear of the warrant being served upon them in that country . the warrant being served upon them in that country. i mean, it certainly limits him, we is certainly limits him, we know is in mariupol he's got this in mariupol today. he's got this incoming jinping, incoming visit from jinping, i believe, tomorrow . do you believe, tomorrow. do you seriously we could end up seriously think we could end up with a situation where putin is in prison, though ? i know that in prison, though? i know that is hard to see. but because of my experience , i don't entirely my experience, i don't entirely 100% rule it out. but i certainly think it will give a lot of pause to people who are about to commit war crimes in the future. remember, some of this is preventative . there will this is preventative. there will be people tomorrow who are i mean, it's a terrible thing to say. but, you know, deciding how to treat people in ukraine, whether to murder them or rape them or abduct them . and those

them or abduct them. and those people will be given pause . people will be given pause. their names will one day appear on an indictment and they may be held responsible for the crimes that they are , you know, that that they are, you know, that they might commit in the future. i think there is a real validity here in trying to prevent crime as well as punishing crime that's occurred . it's that's already occurred. it's certainly major development in certainly a major development in the tale of the russian president and his crimes certainly . now, an unexpected certainly. now, an unexpected emigre russian row of the day. i mean, we used to the migration route lineker and route between gary lineker and the writer twitter . and it's the the writer twitter. and it's the people that don't agree with it. but actually on the mat on sunday, this interesting sunday, there's this interesting story. priti patel threatened to sue suella over migrants clash two home secretaries at war. michael who would have fought it in tory politics two home secretaries of the right , two secretaries of the right, two home secretaries pursuing an identical policy are almost identical policy are almost identical policy. i suppose it shows that in the conservative party any two people can have a row and even in this case, as go to law. what's it actually about 7 to law. what's it actually about ? it's about something that .

? it's about something that. robert jenrick, a junior minister , said in parliament. he minister, said in parliament. he he was trying to blame the predecessor administration, which was, of course , a which was, of course, a conservative administration , conservative administration, under a different prime minister and different home secretary for the that the manston the fact that the manston refugee facility was overcrowded , that not enough hotels bases have been booked. and it seems that there was at least an insinuation that priti patel was insinuation that priti patel was in some way responsible for this. she says absolutely that she was not she rang simon case the beleaguered cabinet secretary in a furious saying that she would sue. and i dare say that president ministers will back down from making that accusation although it is a fair accusation although it is a fair accusation to be asking what previous home secretaries did about this . when you consider about this. when you consider the jump migrant boats from hundreds . in the jump migrant boats from hundreds. in 2019 to the jump migrant boats from hundreds . in 2019 to 45000 last hundreds. in 2019 to 45000 last yeanl hundreds. in 2019 to 45000 last year, i think any home secretary would i think any former home would i think any former home would say if the present home, you know, the extent to i'm let down by my officials, you know

the way this office functions. if you think that this was my personal responsibility , you personal responsibility, you probably know that that isn't really the case. i think that's it lies of all people. suella braverman ought to understand the constraints and difficulties under which priti patel was operating when she was home secretary. it probably speaks to the home office being a basket case as much as perhaps some of the people that have been of the people that have been in of it. think is a basket it. i think it is a basket case and course the people and of course many of the people oppose the policies that the ministers to want to ministers want to want to defend. easy. you defend. it's not easy. now, you simon there appears simon case there who appears a photograph that may or may not prove handy johnson prove handy to boris johnson when appears at the when he appears at the privileges this privileges committee this wednesday we've called this manoeuvre weekend because manoeuvre of the weekend because bofis manoeuvre of the weekend because boris manoeuvres isn't boris is on manoeuvres isn't he's briefed of the papers he's briefed all of the papers that legal that he's got this legal dossier that he's got this legal dossier that going to wipe that he thinks is going to wipe this case out of the water. the thing that most impressed about this that his legal this report is that his legal team led lord panik case. team is led by lord panik case. a strange name, but this a man of extraordinary pedigree who has been at the top of his game for the last 30 years. and that

is to be taken seriously, the implication in the story is that bofis implication in the story is that boris can now produce evidence has not been seen before , that has not been seen before, that he was advised by officials is to say that no had been broken inside number when there were actually things may or may not have been parties going on now that would be quite strong evidence because i mean any goes to dispatch box picks up a bit of paper has been written by officials and relies upon that and that is perfectly legitimate and that is perfectly legitimate and if the bit of paper is not right , then you inadvertently right, then you inadvertently misled parliament. you didn't do it . there seems to be a second it. there seems to be a second strand, by the way, which is somewhat to discredit harriet harman is the chair of the committee because it appears that may already have that harriet may already have expressed her opinion that boris is guilty and it's not normal for a trial judge to express the verdict before the evidence has been taken. it's not ideal. i mean, there's been people who have supported boris in the week talking it being talking about it being mccarthyite. there's also been

talk of the fact that some of the panellists have expressed these negative sentiments towards the former prime minister with all of minister i mean, with all of your political experience and knowledge, does it it sort of smell of stitch up or smell of a bit of a stitch up or not? well, i would say that perhaps the house of commons is on boris on trial as well as boris johnson , because, i mean, you johnson, because, i mean, you know, if people's careers are going to be put the line , you going to be put on the line, you need to be reassured that the process a one. yeah and process is a fair one. yeah and if putting in this if people are putting in this very a judicial very special, a quasi judicial are expressing their views off the record, then i think that is pretty . so i do think shares in pretty. so i do think shares in bofis pretty. so i do think shares in boris are up a bit off a bit today and we grabbed the popcorn for wednesday's appearance, which seems to be box office talking of box office , taylor talking of box office, taylor swift, i know you wanted do this story. your taylor swift fan . story. your taylor swift fan. what what are we called? because i'm taylor swift swifties. i'm a taylor swift swifties. with swifties. and you're saying that has got this unique that she has got this unique ability to unite people in america where other america where no other politician can ? seemingly 53% of

politician can? seemingly 53% of americans i mean , how many americans i mean, how many hundreds of millions of people is that expressing themselves , is that expressing themselves, being taylor swift fans? only 28% of americans say they're republicans tapes and say they're democrats 53% are swifties. this is extraordinary . this is all there's a lot of pubuchy . this is all there's a lot of publicity at the moment. she's beginning a 52 venue tour. there's 11 changes of costume there , 44 songs at last, more there, 44 songs at last, more than three and a half hours while i was wasting my time dunng while i was wasting my time during lockdown, she recorded two new albums, folklore and evermore folklore . she also evermore folklore. she also rerecorded a lot of our old material to regain the copyright , which she had lost as a tori. this is the use of the values that i would say to shift as a poster girl for tori is a vehicle. she kind of is . i mean, vehicle. she kind of is. i mean, this the work is absolutely apparent . this woman apparent. this woman extraordinary but maybe are also saying swift president if she garners that much support from left and right in america the

sky's the limit . i hope she sky's the limit. i hope she doesn't go much in expressing her political views. they are, of course, as you would expect , of course, as you would expect, liberal left of centre . i hope liberal left of centre. i hope she does make a bid politics and ihope she does make a bid politics and i hope her political views their prejudice, her success. but now she's got 53% support. you could say that her talents might be wasted on the political scene. michael, thank you very much. really to seeing michael, thank you very much. realishow. to seeing michael, thank you very much. realishow. i to seeing michael, thank you very much. realishow. i know to seeing michael, thank you very much. realishow. i know you'veeing michael, thank you very much. realishow. i know you've got your show. 11. i know you've got the other the mad dash to that other studio. forward to that. studio. look forward to that. thank you much. now the thank you very much. now the panel own catherine panel and our own catherine foster gb news political reporter is in new york. foster gb news political reporter is in new york . and reporter is in new york. and i'll be very interested to find out what make of today's news, but also what they would like me to ask oliver. lisa nandy and of course, former chancellor kwasi kwarteng. don't forget that if you want to apply the panel, you go to gbnews.uk forward slash panel go to gbnews.uk forward slash panel. catherine , me, panel. but catherine, me, everything. what the people everything. what are the people of morning ? of york saying this morning? good morning . camilla from good morning. camilla from beautifully sunny york. we're just the river oohs and the

perky peacock . this is a 700 perky peacock. this is a 700 year old turret which used, in fact, to be a but is now a cafe. and we're here. we're having some light problems. that light will back any second. now but we're here with our fabulous people's panel on mother's day. let's talk first to richard, who is the cafe owner and also owns another just on the other side of the river. richard, thank you for joining us on gb news this forjoining us on gb news this morning . how is business and? morning. how is business and? what would you like to see from the government? thank you very much for me on catherine and aren't you camilla ? yes. we aren't you camilla? yes. we would like to see an easier and easier business life really from the government. i mean we have a couple of cafes here in york. we've had one for 18 months and another one for a couple of weeks now. and is it's a struggle i am with the economic climate prices climate with increase in prices . a struggle. it . it's a struggle. so it regardless of prices that pay regardless of prices that we pay for produce , we have a lot of

for produce, we have a lot of other variables which come into play other variables which come into play expensive . play which are very expensive. vat high the moment and vat is very high the moment and we are affected by that. right. so high electricity, high corporation tax , there's talks corporation tax, there's talks about increasing , which is not about increasing, which is not particularly good news for us ehhen particularly good news for us either. national insurance . i either. national insurance. i mean we were an employer of people in the cafe and have to we have to think about giving them jobs they're the ones that put money into the economy . put money into the economy. small businesses are their majority and the for the government we have to we have to foster and keep keep the small businesses going. unless we businesses going. and unless we get incentives and the help get the incentives and the help from to that, from government to do that, then then killing goose then it's really killing goose that golden egg really that lays the golden egg really . you know, don't do that. so we can more help with that. we can get better for us, but get the better this for us, but we're not exactly getting that at we're at the moment. and we're struggling very struggling yeah, a very difficult businesses difficult time for businesses the moment, up and the moment, isn't it. up and down country michel, down the country. michel, can i come you next to you are come to you next to you are a retail manager york so you live in ripon and you have a daughter

who was diagnosed at the age of 12 on the autism spectrum disorder. you feel that no one ever enough support is can you tell us a bit about that? yeah, i just i think for it's as basic as more training is needed , a as more training is needed, a better awareness if every business somebody trained in the condition to assist and help somebody or their family that's struggling with autism it be great. i mean the transport isn't going to be have somebody trained them until 2030. it's too long. it doesn't to be, you know, such a long time frame if every business has somebody trained it make a massive, massive impact for especially asthma. and i would lots of the families would benefit from it as well . yes. learning as well. yes. learning disabilities and hidden disabilities do affect lot of people totally. and a massive impact on the families as well. i think that will a lot of i think that will with a lot of people. finally to you, people. and finally to you, mike, a business adviser in mike, you a business adviser in wakefield , york, born and bred wakefield, york, born and bred and boris johnson is going to be

facing the privileges committee this week. you joined the conservative party to support him, but then you lost you lost faith in him , didn't you? tell faith in him, didn't you? tell us briefly about that ? yeah, us briefly about that? yeah, well, i was a big supporter of bofis well, i was a big supporter of boris johnson for many years, going back to mayor of london policy coterie. and when we saw that there was going to be a change in the leadership, we will have to theresa may and with brexit the big issue at the time i decided to join the party specifically when i got to get the opportunity to vote for bofis the opportunity to vote for boris as leader. the opportunity to vote for boris as leader . but with with boris as leader. but with with the goings on during lockdown , i the goings on during lockdown, i lost faith in him on certain issues . i left the party. and issues. i left the party. and you have a question for kwasi kwarteng, don't you? we've only got a few seconds briefly, if you can. yes why do you regret sacking tom, the permanent secretary at the treasury seems very succinct there, camilla for kwasi kwarteng. look forward to

seeing what he says later. back to you thanks much for that, catherine. i've noted that question from mike. i would definitely ask him about tom scholar. now we get to scholar. now before we get to quasi , we're going to quasi, we're going to speak to oliver dowden, of the oliver dowden, chancellor of the duchy mp for duchy of lancaster and mp for hertsmere. oliver, i hope you can me. you've announced can hear me. you've announced this new government emergency alert today. should alert text service today. should we be worried ? it's a little we be worried? it's a little concerning that you want people to be alerted of things going on.and to be alerted of things going on. and is a new on. and this is a new development the what's development. the uk, what's behind . well, this has been behind it. well, this has been a time in the making and this is just another tool in, the toolkit to warn citizen . and toolkit to warn citizen. and when there is a very serious basically a risk to life and limb. so we're going to have a test of this in a month's time and everyone will receive it lost about 10 seconds, but then after that, i hope that none of viewers will hear for a long time ever at all from it. but the sort of scenario they might hearit the sort of scenario they might hear it in is, example , if hear it in is, for example, if a river its banks and your

river burst its banks and your home is at risk of being and you're at risk of life , then you're at risk of life, then you'll receive this message. it'll be very targeted down to a water level and it's another way of communicating what you need to do to keep yourself safe . is to do to keep yourself safe. is there anything that's prompted it, though, minister so obviously we know that there's a war on in ukraine. is it because of the russian nuclear threat? is it because terrorism? i appreciate it's going to start giving weather alerts, but is there something that's precipitated this move . i know precipitated this move. i know this broadly aligns this with other similar say the united states japan netherlands and elsewhere use exactly the same thing it's certainly not in response to the situation in ukraine it's something that we've been developing for some time. indeed, the first trials we undertook were before the crisis in . ukraine let's just crisis in. ukraine let's just move on to politics as a day coming up on wednesday. let's start with the windsor framework. first of all, how damaging will it be to rishi

sunak if the dup and indeed a caucus of brexit tier tories do not support the deal that he struck with brussels ? well, i struck with brussels? well, i very much hope both the dup and wide range of conservative mps will back it. i think they have every to back it. first of all, we achieved what many people thought was impossible. we got the eu to renegotiate a treaty and secondly we've ensured that there are no substantive barriers between mainland britain and northern ireland. it's a good deal and it helps get brexit done . so i hope it get brexit done. so i hope it will command that support. but ultimately it's up to members of parliament is always to make their own decisions. and do you think that boris johnson is going to command the support of his peers ? i wondered what you his peers? i wondered what you might been his party might having been his party chairman many years of this chairman for many years of this idea of giving employees a free vote on his future in politics. is that a fair way to handle ? is that a fair way to handle? shouldn't tories be a little bit more supportive their former more supportive of their former prime well, first of prime minister's well, first of

all, having worked with boris for many years in different capacities i'm quite sure that he will put forward a very robust defence of his case when he appears before the committee on wednesday. ultimately this is a procedure of the house of commons. always been the case in these sort things. it's up to individual members to make up their own so of all it will their own mind so of all it will be the committee to make be for the committee to make a determination. that determination. and if that necessitates it going the necessitates it going to the floor house, it will floor of the house, it will be up each individual mp to make up to each individual mp to make up to each individual mp to make up minds . as i say, i up their minds. as i say, i think he'll make a robust defence. we following the defence. we are following the usual in saying that usual precedent in saying that this matter for the house this is a matter for the house of commons , but you will of commons, but you will obviously a vote. you've obviously have a vote. you've already heard defence. i mean we've had reams of newspaper coverage about it already . will coverage about it already. will you vote in his favour. coverage about it already. will you vote in his favour . well i'm you vote in his favour. well i'm going to listen to the defence that boris makes, but i don't think it's appropriate for me as a government minister to start commenting something is for commenting on something is for the house of commons. it's again, it's the usual precedent

that we wouldn't ministers comment on things that are a matter for the house of commons. so i don't want to breach. but as i say, having box many as i'm quite sure he'll put forward a robust defence and you happy with the way that this is all being carried out? there's been talk of it being a witch hunt. there's been some coverage of the fact that harry and harriet harman and others on the committee have already voiced quite sentiments quite negative sentiments about bofis . quite negative sentiments about boris . there's somebody boris johnson. there's somebody else i think the weekend was else who i think the weekend was likening to the mccarthy likening it to the mccarthy trials. you happy that this trials. are you happy that this isn't a total stitch up . well, i isn't a total stitch up. well, i think i have to respect the of commons procedures. it is a cross—party committee , including cross—party committee, including conservative members of parliament on that committee and ultimately it will come it if they make a determination that they make a determination that the necessities that come to the floor of the house of commons, it will members of the it will be for members of the house to decide. and house of commons to decide. and i think on duty as i think on duty bound as a government minister to respect

the independence , the house of the independence, the house of commons, to make own commons, to make its own determinations to determinations and not to give that commentary. i know that bofis that commentary. i know that boris will has a his arguments make a strong case to make and he will make that case to the committee i know you've got a very wide reaching reach brief at the cabinet office that you've been involved in some of the coronation planning. have you received your invitation and how many and do we think are going to attend the ceremony on may the sixth ? well i think the may the sixth? well i think the convention is, which i think will be followed, again, that cabinet ministers do attend the coronation. so i would hope to be and i think i have been ianedin be and i think i have been invited in that capacity as a cabinet minister. invited in that capacity as a cabinet minister . sadly, there cabinet minister. sadly, there won't be as many seats available in westminster abbey as previously. so it won't be the case that a large number of either members of parliament or members of that will both names of parliament. but not in the commons or members of the house of lords will be attending .

of lords will be attending. there'll be a wide range of representatives from across the public. there as well. and of course many international leaders because of course king charles, not just king charles of the united kingdom, he's also king charles of canada. australia and many other realms as well. so there'll be a wide international representing in there as well . would you like to there as well. would you like to see the duke and duchess sussex attend ceremony . i that's attend the ceremony. i that's that's a matter for his majesty king to make a determination that i, i don't think it would be helpful for a government minister to comment on that well dodged. you've obviously come out with this stick tat about the governmental phone use of tik tok. are you angry grant shapps that he's continuing to use tik tok in his own personal phone ? well, in the end that's phone? well, in the end that's that's up to grant shapps. now he's very clear in the statement that i made to the house commons, i think on thursday, the doing this the reason why we're doing this is in relation to government

devices . those are devices that devices. those are devices that have sensitive government information on and given the vast amounts of data harvested not just by tik tok but by many other social media apps , and in other social media apps, and in addition around the addition the risks around the ownership of tik tok, given that it's owned by a it's ultimately owned by a chinese company which is subject to chinese national security laws . i immediately took steps laws. i immediately took steps to ban tik tok from devices and taken some further steps in respect of other apps. basically we will analyse and make sure that they are secure to be used on government devices. but in respect your personal phone grant shapps is like any of your viewers or anyone else, they they need to make their own decisions about what's appropriate them, bearing in mind information mind the amount of information that can gathered by any that can be gathered by any social media app. and in addition that, i that addition to that, i say that grant also received grant will also received government security briefing when he became a minister about he uses his personal phone sensitively , but it does sensitively, but it does undermine the policy a bit, doesn't it? i mean he's posted

this sort of extraordinary clip from the wolf of wall street film , basically saying that he's film, basically saying that he's not to let go app. not going to let go of this app. so makes the government's so it makes the government's manoeuvres, perhaps look slightly in the face of his slightly weak in the face of his personal preferences. mean, personal preferences. i mean, he's minister. no, he's a senior minister. no, i discussed this with grant around the time he's perfectly entitled to use his personal. the time he's perfectly entitled to use his personal . what the to use his personal. what the announcement i made was in respect of government device this and i think on balance it is appropriate to ban tiktok for the factors that i outlined . mr. the factors that i outlined. mr. dowden surely that's not so their devices and that applies to grant but surely there's lots of personal information on his phone either we about the threat from the chinese via tik tok or we're . not well, the concern we're. not well, the concern that i sought to address through the announcement i was in respect of sensitive government information remember sensitive , information remember sensitive, government information should only be on government communication devices in respect

of his personal device or indeed any member of parliament or anyone in a of public authority . they need to think carefully about how they use it. and ministers grant shapps will receive briefing about how to carefully handle own personal devices and the i'll be acting in accordance with that . mr. in accordance with that. mr. dowden you very, very much indeed for joining dowden you very, very much indeed forjoining me this indeed for joining me this morning. we still got a lot to come the show we're going to hear from labour's lisa and of course i've got my big interview with come. with kwasi kwarteng to come. don't back . there's help for households. are you over state pension age? if your weekly income is below £182.60, or £278.70 if you live with a partner, you could be eligible for pension credit, even if you own your home or have savings. it's worth, on average, £3,500 a year and you could get help with heating bills and more, plus up to £900 in cost of living payments.

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. lovely to have your company this morning. i'm going to be speaking to lisa nandy labour mp about the party's plan to take back control moment. i'll control in just a moment. i'll also be speaking to former chancellor kwarteng. chancellor kwasi kwarteng. but first, alan first, here's the news with alan armstrong . hi there. it's a armstrong. hi there. it's a minute past ten. i'm aaron armstrong in the gb news. and very good morning to you as well. the home secretary is planning to deport the first migrants to rwanda by this summer. so at a brafman says the timing depends on pending legal

battles . and she's indicated the battles. and she's indicated the uk could leave the european court of human rights if it hinders the plan. the agreement with rwanda has been expanded to include all legal migrants, not just asylum seekers . progress is just asylum seekers. progress is being made rapidly , and i'm being made rapidly, and i'm really confident on the back of the progress that i've seen here in kigali that we will be able to operational ize this world, leading agreement very , very leading agreement very, very soon. the big point here is that there will be a package of high quality humanitarian support for people who will be relocated to rwanda . that combined with our rwanda. that combined with our robust new laws, will be able will enable us to break the business model of the people smuggling gangs. boris johnson will publish evidence in his defence over allegations he misled parliament over partygate. he's expected to provide the commons privileges committee with a dossier tomorrow ahead of giving

evidence on wednesday. he denies misleading mps. oliver dowden says boris johnson will be able to provide convincing evidence to provide convincing evidence to support his case. having worked with boris for many years in different capacities, i'm quite sure that he will put forward a very robust defence of his case when he appears before the committee on wednesday. ultimately this is a procedure of the house of commons that it's always been the case in this sort of things is up to individual members to make up their so of their own mind. so first of all, it will for the committee to it will be for the committee to make a determination. and if that necessitates it going to the the house, it will the floor of the house, it will be to individual mp to be up to each individual mp to make their mind. vladimir make up their mind. vladimir putin's made a surprise visit to the ukrainian city of mariupol. according to russian state media. if confirmed , it would be media. if confirmed, it would be his first visit to a newly occupied ukrainian territory since start of the war. now since the start of the war. now the port city fell in may after being devastated by russian forces in one of the longest battles of the conflict. and his visit comes a day after the

international criminal court issued an arrest warrant for him . an emergency alert will be sent to mobile users across the uk next month to test a new pubuc uk next month to test a new public warning system. it's to make people aware of potentially life threatening situations , life threatening situations, including flooding and wildfires . the siren will be sent out on the 23rd of april and users won't be able to use their phones until they acknowledge it. tv online and dab radio. this is . this is. gb news. welcome back to the camilla tominey show. i'll be speaking to kwasi kwarteng in just a moment. but first, let's bring lisa nandy into the conversation. she's labour's mp for wigan. she's shadow for wigan. she's also shadow levelling up secretary. now lisa, this is interesting, your take back control act. do you normally get inspiration from dominic cummings for labour

policies ? i think the policies? i think the inspiration actually comes from people who've consistently in this country voted for change. they voted for change in referendums, they voted for change across the board and what we want to see is the government make good on those promises. instead, in the budget this week, which should have been a game changer. we saw just 9% of the population and granted the power to take charge of their own destiny on the new devolution deals. there's a missing 90% there and labour is determined that we're going to deliver for those people . but deliver for those people. but are you confident that devolution has always been a great success? i mean, look at scotland. do the public actually want more power to be devolved to people who perhaps they didn't elect and that weren't elected on a very big turnout ? elected on a very big turnout? isn't it just devolving to people who are essentially bureaucrats and not necessarily reflecting their interests ? reflecting their interests? look, i think the evidence of the last 13 years shows that when we're unshackled from this

failing tory government, we can do far, far better. and in fact, the evidence goes back further than that under the last labour government when we granted real power through regional development agencies to places like grimsby and rotherham, they developed a world leading wind industry. they worked in partnership with business to bnng partnership with business to bring advanced manufacturing to rotherham. i'm standing here in media city in salford where we now have young people from my constituency in wigan, salford , constituency in wigan, salford, bolton, bury driving the jobs in the media that they a generation ago would have been completely unthinkable. i think if you hand power back to people and they make good decisions and decisions that last that's what the government says. but that's what labour's actually going to do . but do you what labour's actually going to do. but do you think what labour's actually going to do . but do you think devolution do. but do you think devolution in scotland has been a success? i think devolutionists scotland hasn't gone deep enough and close enough to the people. i think it's right that any government in westminster should respect whoever is elected by

the people. you have to much prefer if it was a labour government in scotland, but you know, should labour not win the election in scotland , but when election in scotland, but when in in westminster you can rest assured we will work constructively with whoever the scottish people choose. the welsh people choose to lead them . but what is more important is that people feel the benefit of that people feel the benefit of that in every part of scotland. and so often what i hear when i leave edinburgh and glasgow to go to places like fi for many of the coastal towns around scotland is exactly the same story that i hear in industrial and coastal towns in england as well, that they want power to move much closer to them. it's one the reasons why we've one of the reasons why we've said the right said they should have the right to a mayoral model there as to have a mayoral model there as well if want to, because well if they want to, because people closer to home understand not problems that they not just the problems that they face, but the assets and potential exist every potential that exist in every part britain that could be part of britain that could be unlocked for the public unlocked and used for the public good we were only able to good if we were only able to see, okay . i mean, obviously see, okay. i mean, obviously you're aware, i'm sure you hear it on the doorstep that

immigration is a key concern. do you agree with keir starmer when he there quote, he said there is, quote, a racist on the current end quotes which permeates all immigration law ? is all immigration law law? is all immigration law racist ? no, of course, all racist? no, of course, all immigration law isn't racist. and in fact, i used to work with he was refugees and asylum seekers before i came into politics. i don't know what you're referring to, but i'm pretty sure that keir starmer did in the piece that he wrote some years ago is racist. well, i don't know what that piece was or what the context was for it, but i can i can assure your viewers that we do not believe keir starmer does not believe and i do not believe the immigration law is racist. what we want to see is an immigration system that actually works less of the pr stunts , less the of the pr stunts, less of the press releases , and more of the press releases, and more of the hard yards that it takes to stop the boat crossings or break the smuggler gangs and get our asylum system running asylum system up and running again so it can process again so that it can process people swiftly, grant to people swiftly, grant asylum to people swiftly, grant asylum to people who have the right to be

here and remove people swiftly who don't . so do support the who don't. so do you support the rwanda plan then? because that's seemingly using a sledgehammer perhaps to crack a nut when it comes to immigration ? well, we comes to immigration? well, we think it's absurd . the home think it's absurd. the home secretary has handed over £140 million in cheques to rwanda. and so far has nothing to show for it. this was a plan that was announced and pushed by her predecessor pretty patel. they've announced and re—announced it. and today what we've got is a an instagram account rather than a workable old policy. we think you should take that money, put it into the national crime agency, create a cross—border so that disrupts the criminal gangs and send the clearest possible message to those criminal gangs that their behaviour won't be tolerated and that will bring them to account should they persist . instead, should they persist. instead, we've had more and more of the tough talk from this government. and last year the boat crossings hit a record high of 45,000 is not working and it's about time

the government recognised that. but is labour's plan to but what is labour's plan to bnng but what is labour's plan to bring down not just illegal immigration but legal immigration? heard from the immigration? we heard from the opr in the week after the budget that it predicts that net migration will be 250,000 in the coming years. in 1997, before tony blair took office, it was 47,000. i would imagine that the constituents in wigan that you speak to on a regular basis are concerned about these numbers . concerned about these numbers. you know, during the eu referendum , one of my referendum, one of my constituents said to me , it's constituents said to me, it's all very well people saying that we should be grateful to people who work in our local hospital who've come from all over the world to do so. and we are. but she said, my kids could just as well as think of going to the moon as getting those jobs and i think she was right that we've had 13 in which we've had 13 years in which we've pulled away the ladder for many young people constituencies young people in constituencies like mine. we haven't taken seriously the need to invest in the skills of young people in the skills of young people in

the employment and retraining, support for older people who are leaving the labour market. we need a long term plan to actually scale up our workforce for the jobs that we're creating , not just the sticking plaster of continuing to grant visas to people from other countries who could be contributing to their own countries to come here and fill the shortage . so that's why fill the shortage. so that's why we've said devolve skills policy, devolve employment training and support so it can be far more flexible to the local labour market and give businesses much more flexibility over how they use the apprenticeship well. we apprenticeship levy as well. we think immigration go think immigration and skills go hand hand and immigration hand in hand and immigration minister in investing in the skills of young people in this country . you've mentioned their country. you've mentioned their older people and encouraging them back into work on bit confused. why is labour saying that it wouldn't with that it wouldn't agree with jeremy hunt's proposal to not have a top threshold on the amount you can put into a pension when wes streeting, the shadow health secretary, said that for that was a great idea for doctors. should it just apply to doctors. should it just apply to doctors and other people who are older need to be

older who might need to be enficed older who might need to be enticed into the workforce enticed back into the workforce 7 enticed back into the workforce ? well, because 84% of the people that this helps are not doctors . and this is not just a doctors. and this is not just a sledgehammer to crack a no, it's a very expensive sledgehammer to crack. and it can't be right. but do you want to bring doctors back into the nhs? willing . it back into the nhs? willing. it can't be right that we spend £1,000,000,000 on bringing a majority on helping a majority of people with a tax cut who are at the wealthiest end of the spectrum. when 99% of the rest of us are struggling to even put money into our own pensions and stay in work as a consequence, we think there are far, far better ways to use £1,000,000,000, and we would reverse this . we would work with reverse this. we would work with the government if they were willing to do so on a bespoke scheme , an alternative that scheme, an alternative that ensured that we found a solution to the doctors problem. there are several of those solutions currently on the table, but instead the government has gone for £1,000,000,000 tax cut for

the wealthiest people in the country. only a handful of people. and what does it feel like to a paramedic waking up on wednesday morning to hear that thatis wednesday morning to hear that that is the government's priority at a time when everybody is struggling? this is bad okay bad choices. in bad policy. okay bad choices. in the end, government is about choices. and this government has not chosen 99% of us this week . not chosen 99% of us this week. thank you very much, lisa nandy thank you very much, lisa nandy thank you very much, lisa nandy thank you for joining thank you very much, lisa nandy thank you forjoining me thank you very much, lisa nandy thank you for joining me this morning. now i'm delighted to be joined by kwasi kwarteng liz truss, his chancellor and tory mp for spell form . thank you for mp for spell form. thank you for joining us. lovely to see you. i know you haven't reacted to the budget yet, so we have public this exclusive in general. how are you? it's been a bit of a tumult this time. i'm i'm fine actually. i look back on my time in government and it wasn't just chance.i in government and it wasn't just chance. i was business secretary before that. and you know, it was a great privilege to be in that but of course, that position. but of course, i didn't end well. the well, no, i was sacked. but, you know , was sacked. but, you know, that's that's politics are ups and downs let's on to that and downs. let's get on to that

and downs. let's get on to that a later. i'm very a little later. i'm very intrigued to know what you made of hunt delivered of what jeremy hunt delivered in the house of commons on wednesday. look, i think it was a good budget. i think really? yeah, i mean, i know you yeah, i think i mean, i know you want say that it was want me to say that it was a disaster. well, let's be honest. things like the corporation tax rise are from playbook rise are not from your playbook completely reversed . and that completely reversed. and that was in a way, that was why, was why in a way, that was why, of course , i was sacked because of course, i was sacked because ultimately there was a disagree moment about corporation tax and it was felt, given the market turmoil which occurred, that we had to reverse , not put it out. had to reverse, not put it out. and of course, i disagreed with putting it up in the first place. but the markets have steadied now. has it been over cautious? there are businesses who are saying, hang on, the tories no longer the party tories are no longer the party that the taxpayer that represents us, the taxpayer funds all time high. this funds at an all time high. this is you and liz is exactly what you and liz truss railed against. yes. so you have a bit you must have been a bit underweight, seemed to have seen what look what was present. look wednesday, is wednesday, what we can't do is pretend that october didn't

pretend that last october didn't happen. last september didn't happen. last september didn't happen. last september didn't happen . there an adverse happen. there was an adverse reaction to the budget that i put forward , the mini—budget put forward, the mini—budget that liz truss and i put forward and jeremy was appointed by liz truss . i and jeremy was appointed by liz truss. i mean people and jeremy was appointed by liz truss . i mean people forget that truss. i mean people forget that she was actually appointed by her and i think he's done a good job and stabilised the situation. does the reaction situation. but does the reaction to your mini—budget indicate that we can never have a kind of low tax, high growth approach to our economy here? does it mean that the markets were spooked temporarily and it won't happen again? does it mean that we have to resign ourselves to this treasury safety ? does it type treasury safety? does it type approach for all eternity? i mean , what's your fear? we're mean, what's your fear? we're never going to. so thatcher economics always look so little to questions there and i think i think you're right i think there's a broad question there's a broad aim to have a lower tax, higher more productive economy . higher more productive economy. now, the question and that strategic goal was one that this had that one i share. i think

also rishi sunak and jeremy hunt ultimately want to see the tax burden come down. but the question is the question is how you do that from where we are now? how do you actually get there? and i think jeremy rightly perhaps has adopted a cautious approach given what happened last winter . and he's happened last winter. and he's also very much, i think, a looking at the markets, looking at what treasury officials are doing and trying to do it in a methodical way . and that's where methodical way. and that's where i think i unless got it wrong, i think we should have had a more methodical, a more process dnven methodical, a more process driven way of getting to that strategic goal, which, as you say , is lower taxes and say, is lower taxes and incentivising economic activity. so let's drill down on that. do you think that she was in too much of a rush? i mean, she had spent the leadership race throughout the summer, petroleum , this low tax agenda. she'd been about treasury been talking about treasury orthodoxy . what actually went orthodoxy. what actually went wrong there ? i think there wrong in there? i think there was much in the in the in was too much in the in the in the statement to the mini—budget

and i think it was a very bold thing to do not to have obr forecasts, not to have any spending on the on the spending side of the day was that that's all that was. that was we agreed that, well i'm not i mean, i wanted to respond to that. did you think it was a it was a good i think there was a view that a lot of the a, b, r forecasts have been wrong in the past. and they put a constraint on what they put a constraint on what the government could do. and i think in terms the think in terms of the mini—budget there were lots of things going on. the interest rates across the rates were going up across the world, particularly fed. world, particularly the fed. there other there were lots of other circumstances people said, circumstances and people said, oh, the currency hit an time oh, the currency hit an all time low. but actually the yen and the euro very low as well the euro were very low as well at that particular time. but i think was the feeling that think that was the feeling that we was it was there was too we had was it was there was too much and it should have a much and it should have been a more methodical approach . and more methodical approach. and that's what, frankly, jeremy hunt and rishi sunak are doing. it is more measured. it's a little bit calmer and it's more methodical . now, the direction methodical. now, the direction i'd like to change, i'd like to

have lower taxes, but method and process are very important. but when were actually doing the when you were actually doing the mini—budget working on it, mini—budget and working on it, did you have any inkling that it was going to cause the reaction? it did. i mean, what were the warnings coming from civil servants at the treasury cutting out the obe? and don't out the obe? ah, and don't forget again, you did double down, didn't you, on saying that there more to come and that there was more to come and that it would more. yeah. so that it would be more. yeah. so that was a mistake that probably was a mistake. and i think got a mistake. and i think we've got we as politicians to be able we got as politicians to be able to and say we to put up our hands and say we got things wrong. i think a lot of my comments were misinterpreted. mean, what i misinterpreted. i mean, what i had was to have had wanted to do was to have another statement which was showing side of the showing the spending side of the equafion showing the spending side of the equation to show that the unfunded tax cuts were actually going to be partially funded through spending restraint, and that should have been done together. and i think one forgets the immense speed with which the mini—budget was was launched. i mean, we i think we took office on the 6th of

september and the actual budget itself was on the 23rd of september. again, whose idea was it to let's not go into whose idea we're all collectors. everyone's in a hurry. so you're thinking that you just rushed it ? that was my. that's why you. did you think that at the time got you leaving me so i'm responsible? you know, i'm not coming exonerate myself coming here to exonerate myself of responsibility. i think senior at senior politicians, people at the government should the head of government should take responsibility for what happened. i think looking happened. and i think looking back hindsight is a beautiful thing. but looking back , we thing. but looking back, we should have had a more measured and a more cautious approach. but wasn't anyone the but wasn't anyone in the treasury know, this treasury saying, you know, this could have a negative impact, you a real world sense you know, in a real world sense on mortgage did nobody on mortgage rates, did nobody flag ldi thing, which i flag the ldi thing, which i think nobody knew about that. i mean i mean, that was was mean i mean, that was that was that was a critical piece. i think, in a way , that was what think, in a way, that was what undid the government and its choices have been from viewers and listeners might not be. ofeibea the intricacies of ldi but there's this discovery that all of these deals which are

these derivatives are held in one fund. there were three firms in particular, and what they done was that they they borrowed money to buy gilts , government money to buy gilts, government debt, but which has a 20 year maturity. so it's going out 20 years and there's a consequence of interest rates going up. what they held, the value of what they held, the value of what they held, the value of what they held went down very sharply and they needed a bailout that was actually what contributed to the unravelling of sort of my position. ultimately of the position. and ultimately of the prime ministers. so just us prime ministers. so just talk us through liz truss is through you and liz truss is making that discovery, being told that what are you then thinking and saying that was i mean, then that was a conversation about, you know, what would the bank was going to do? of england i think do? the bank of england i think we have to see the we would have liked to see the extend provision terms of extend the provision in terms of the bailout, if you like, if you want to call it that way. and they were very determined that want to call it that way. and thethe ere very determined that want to call it that way. and thethe ere vof determined that want to call it that way. and thethe ere vof octoberined that want to call it that way. and thethe ere v of october thatthat on the 14th of october that would out there the would run out there was the spectre. there a worry that spectre. there was a worry that there'd be some sort of market reaction on the on monday, the following which the

following monday, which was the thing the 17 and that was what was focusing the prime minister's mind. so as you will remember, i was in washington . remember, i was in washington. yes, at the imf, and i was told to come back a day early. and that was the day i was sacked. yeah. did you know you were coming back be sacked? i had coming back to be sacked? i had i had 5050 view. i thought it i had a 5050 view. i thought it was likely, at the same time was likely, but at the same time i didn't understand it because it was obvious to me that once i was signed a position was untenable. so untenable. yeah so what conversations went on between you both? because we know that you've always been politically very know, you came very close. you know, you came as a package. we always knew when she was running the when she was running for the leadership that you would be her chancellor that starts chancellor so as that all starts to unfold, just let us in a little bit on those conversations. you're in a flight and you don't know whether you're going to land to a job or out of a job. what do you then? i found out on twitter on way to street. on the way to downing street. well, that. well that well, how did that. well that was an old feeling, because as i remember was on remember it was on steve swinford. yes time of the time and formally the telegraph,

formerly of the telegraph and my special adviser said to me, have you seen stephen's tweet? steve's tweets ? and i said, no. steve's tweets? and i said, no. and she passed it onto me and said, eric kwasi kwarteng has been or will be sacked. it was pretty definitive. and i said, that's definitely true because he his tweets he he you know, his tweets generally true. generally turn out to be true. and surely there's this enormous sense kind sense of betrayal that you kind of political has thrown of political bestie has thrown you under a bus and not giving you under a bus and not giving you advance warning. i think i think was it was clear that think it was it was clear that we a huge amount of we were under a huge amount of pressure. and i think the view the 10 was that they the number 10 took was that they had their course, they had to had to their course, they had to change but come on, kwasi, change it. but come on, kwasi, how feel? you're how did you feel? you're basically being put up as the scapegoat for this entire economic well economic policy? well look, that's that's the way that's that's that's the way politics goes. i mean, i think, you a team effort and you know, it's a team effort and yourjob is you know, it's a team effort and your job is to you know, it's a team effort and yourjob is to make sure that the team captain the team itself can operate. could she explain it to you? you know, you need to go to stabilise the markets. yeah.i go to stabilise the markets. yeah. i mean that was the first thing. and then she said, i

think she said very clearly that, you know, in order for her to survive, you know, that was, that was something that the measure that needed to be taken. and said the time and i actually said at the time that once she'd sent me, i think that once she'd sent me, i think that was it. yeah. because it showed weakness that she wasn't going to support and never works well. when prime minister sacked chancellor, you chancellor, as you know, you don't be a great student don't need to be a great student of see that that that of history to see that that that makes the prime minister look much weaker . and i at the time much weaker. and i at the time it was reported that i said i thought she had three or four weeks. i don't know how it got into the papers, it did the into the papers, but it did the sunday papers and in the end it was six days. so i was sacked on the of october, which is the 14th of october, which is a friday, then she announced friday, and then she announced her resignation thursday. her resignation on the thursday. so a week. have so it wasn't even a week. have you spoken to her? yeah. yeah, we're friends. friends? we're friends. still friends? yeah. how long did it take before you spoke to her again? i think much about think we spoke pretty much about a week after she left office. and how was that? well, it was you know, it's an interesting conversation, i think, you conversation, but i think, you know, very closely know, when you work very closely with and you built

with people and you built a relationship over a years, professional relationship , i professional relationship, i think it's you know, it's an aduh think it's you know, it's an adult thing to and work out, adult thing to try and work out, you know, where things went wrong . we still believe wrong. we still believe passionately in low tax passionately in a low tax economy , but, you know, that's economy, but, you know, that's something that we're still we're still focussed on. so you're still focussed on. so you're still of the kind of the ideas were right for the execution was wrong. i think the ideas i think i understand what it i didn't understand what it means a conservative. if means to be a conservative. if you don't ultimately in you don't believe ultimately in lower now and lower taxes broadly. now and that's a strategic goal, lower taxes broadly. now and that's a strategic goal , there that's a strategic goal, there is a question of how you get there. and there are different approaches. and i think what the prime minister and the current chancellor are doing is broadly right. i think got to be right. i think you've got to be methodical i'd like see methodical now. i'd like to see things maybe more quickly , things maybe done more quickly, but you do have to be methodical. have carry methodical. you have to carry institutions with you , and i institutions with you, and i think what trying think that's what they're trying to do. i think you've written along with former chancellors philip hammond and indeed george osborne, you didn't think osborne, that you didn't think it idea for him to it was a good idea for him to have stuck with the corporation tax rise. you possibly tax rise. so you can't possibly support so

support that in the budget. so i've clearly that i i've said very clearly that i don't didn't actually i was don't i didn't actually i was afraid as myself very carefully what i said. think it what i said. i don't think it helps incentivise investment if you put up corporation taxes to that extent and i've said that consistently , i've always been. consistently, i've always been. what would you ideally like corporation tax to be? should we be on a par with ireland? we should certainly be more competitive france and competitive against france and germany, would imagine would germany, i would imagine would be position. so when i came be your position. so when i came into parliament, i think the corporation rate was 28. and corporation tax rate was 28. and one things that george one of the things that george osborne very successfully osborne did very successfully was reduce roughly was to reduce that to roughly where it is now. where it is, where it is now. and my view that we should and my view was that we should stick tried to stick to that. now, i tried to implement that there was an adverse reaction among other measures, we took, and now measures, that we took, and now we've got a new prime minister, newish prime minister. we got a newish prime minister. we got a new chancellor which liz truss appointed wasn't rishi sunak of what i know, but she did that because she had to this like because she had to do this like safety first approach. he's not necessarily a chancellor that is espousing your sort of economic ideals, is it? well, well, we tried it one way. it didn't work

. the prime minister changed course and i'm very much of the view that as a backbencher i should be supporting not only representing my interest, but i should be supporting the government, should be supporting the prime minister. and it's very irritating to see people who very high up in who have been very high up in government not backing necessarily everything that, you know, that the prime minister's trying to do because we're not going win unless we all unite going to win unless we all unite it. why did you this was a question that mike on our people's panel wanted me to ask you.so people's panel wanted me to ask you. so let me ask you why did you. so let me ask you why did you sack tom scholar and was that a mistake? i think that's one very one score issue was very different. i mean, people conflate the two. i think he was i time, i think he i said at the time, i think he was a civil servant. he'd was a great civil servant. he'd been treasury for years been the treasury for 30 years now. written with now. it's written up with hindsight that somehow that had something with something to do with the fallout. there fallout. i think there were separate issues that came because is that speaking to this idea that you can't be chance, idea that you can't be a chance, chancellor, that goes a native of you're of the treasury, that you're going be captured, that going to be captured, that you've got to be quite low. sony and lay down the law and

and just lay down the law and you want a civil servant you didn't want a civil servant who saying no no. who just kept on saying no no. there were lots issues with there were lots of issues with the that particular the that that particular decision think had decision i don't think had anything with actual anything to do with the actual fallout. they were fallout. i mean, they were coincidental, but what was the idea? i mean, the fact idea? well, i mean, the fact that he'd been for a very that he'd been there for a very long time and you'd say long time and then you'd say he's wealth of wisdom and he's got a wealth of wisdom and experience into it. yes. experience coming into it. yes. right. but we wanted to right. yeah. so but we wanted to have course of have a different course of action and that was the way that we set about the when we set we set about the when people accused you of people have accused you of intellectual arrogance and of going know , i going into this, you know, i know what i want to do and i'm going to do it. i mean, is that a fair criticism in hindsight? i think in hindsight, we should have hard to have done probably hard to admit, to look, admit, but you've got to look, i'm of the view that i'm very much of the view that when things go wrong, you have to look yourself in the mirror when things go wrong, you have to l(try yourself in the mirror when things go wrong, you have to l(try and'self in the mirror when things go wrong, you have to l(try and understand nirror when things go wrong, you have to l(try and understand howr when things go wrong, you have to l(try and understand how they and try and understand how they went wrong and what your responsibility things responsibility was and things going wrong . i don't believe going wrong. i don't believe that can just say everything that you can just say everything i did was 100% right. that was just a conspiracy of people against me. i don't with against me. i don't agree with that. think you've got to that. i think you've got to you've some degree you've got to have some degree of self—criticism. i think

of self—criticism. and i think that know, should have that we you know, we should have done things more systematically that we you know, we should have don

to stand at the next election? i hope to. i've been re adopted and i want to continue to be an mp, but i think it's very important and i can't emphasise this enough that when things go wrong you have to try and work out what wrong . you have out what went wrong. you have to look yourself. painful look at yourself. that's painful and to try and see how and you have to try and see how you can improve. yeah, and looking back, i'm very much of the we should have the view that we should have taken a more methodical, even a more approach because more cautious approach because what were trying to do was what we were trying to do was very but trying to very radical, but trying to essentially change this high tax. but say to say to people whose mortgage is shot up overnight and, you know, some people lost out on house purchases. think some people purchases. i think some people probably homes. do probably lost their homes. do you apologise for that? you do you apologise for that? i've said publicly i'm not in the business of apologising, you know, i mean, if know, for everything. i mean, if politicians apologise for everything wrong, you everything that goes wrong, you know, be here know, there'll be we'd be here in, you know, for the rest of time . i think it was i regret time. i think it was i regret what happened. i think we should have more methodical. have been more methodical. i don't i did was don't think everything i did was right . i look back and think, right. i look back and think,

you what could we have you know, what could we have done better? but i'm very much trying forward to trying to look forward to actually fight for the low tax economy that i want to see final question, could boris johnson do with showing a bit more introspection? obviously he's got this big show trial on wednesday. i'm sure he thinks i'm sure he thinks about it. what went wrong? i'm sure he thinks about that. he thinks about that. i'm sure he discussed it with him. i speak to fairly regularly . i think to him fairly regularly. i think he's a hugely intelligent, sensitive, brilliant person. do you fear for his political future with. no, i think i think , you know, he's been written off so many times, you know, last 25 years, a number of articles i've read saying he's finished, he's gone, it's over. what think he'll one day what do you think he'll one day lead the party? i think he anything happen. i think anything could happen. i think he i you know, he could do i think, you know, he's someone who would never he's someone who i would never rule count on. do you rule out or count on. do you need come the election? i need him come the election? i mean, are you about mean, how positive are you about the chances of winning the tories? chances of winning in 2020? so i think that have in 2020? so i think that we have a think the chance a chance, but i think the chance we have rests on a single fact and that fact should be tory

unity. if we are not united, we will lose that. i'm very, very convinced of in order to win , we convinced of in order to win, we have to come together. we have to back the prime minister and we to be as one. and we have to be as one. and i think if that wins and there's every sign that it could happen, that it every sign that it could happen, thatitis every sign that it could happen, that it is happening, i think we've got a chance be we've got a chance we'll be competitive. kwasi kwasi kwarteng, you very much kwarteng, thank you very much for coming show this for coming on the show this morning your candour and morning for your candour and honesty. it's been very honesty. it's been i get very worried people say candour worried when people say candour welsh said, i welsh or what i've said, but i think you've been pretty open. that's what we like on gb news. so very much. thank so thank you very much. thank you your time. thank well you your time. thank you. well lots come on today's lots more to come on today's show. of here's show. but first of all, here's the with alan the news headlines with alan armstrong . there's just after armstrong. there's just after half past and i'm afraid armstrong in the gb newsroom. the home secretary suella braverman is planning to deport the first migrants to rwanda by the first migrants to rwanda by the . speaking kigali, the summer. speaking in kigali, she says the timing depends on pending legal battles and indicated the uk could leave the

european court of human rights if it hinders the plan. the agreement with rwanda has been expanded to include all illegal migrants, not just asylum seekers . boris johnson will seekers. boris johnson will pubush seekers. boris johnson will publish evidence in his defence over allegations he misled parliament on the partygate scandal. he expected to submit a dossier to the commons privileges committee tomorrow before being questioned by mps on wednesday . friday vladimir on wednesday. friday vladimir putin's made a surprise visit to the ukrainian city of mariupol. according to russian state media. if confirmed, it would be his first visit to a newly occupied ukrainian territory since the start of the war. the port city in donetsk fell last may after being devastated by russian forces in one of the longest battles of the conflict . tv online and the abc plus radio. this is giving hd. stay with .

us welcome back to the camilla tominey show. well golly, i'm very intrigued to find out the reaction in york to my interview with kwasi kwarteng catherine foster gb news is political reporter. is there? what did the panel make of the interviews? catherine hello, camilla. welcome back to the perky peacock . york, just by the river peacock. york, just by the river ouse we've had a lovely time drinking hot chocolate . it's not drinking hot chocolate. it's not that warm here, but the sun is shining. it'll be warming up later. and so , yes, lots of later. and so, yes, lots of interest in what the former chancellor kwasi kwarteng, had to say . he was chancellor kwasi kwarteng, had to say. he was quite open, wasn't he, about making mistakes and also stressing the need for tory unity . let's talk to mike tory unity. let's talk to mike first, of course, and asked about tom scholar mike, what did you think of what quizzing said ? well, first off, i'm the very positive about quizzes budget

last year i'm very much into law taxation and letting people spend their own money. but overall , i thought he was spend their own money. but overall, i thought he was making he was very positive about the future. i think he said that he did things too quickly . and the did things too quickly. and the policies that he put forward would hope would come out in the future. he is point about tory humility being fundamental to them winning the next election i think is a big plus for the prime minister and for people that i support on the, you know, the likes of steve baker and the like in the old spartans to support this government to get through the next election. so very, very positive about what kweisi was saying about what he'd done and his intention. but admitting that it probably made some mistakes. yes, it was interesting , wasn't it, when interesting, wasn't it, when camilla said, what did you of jeremy hunt's budget, he said it

was a good budget. camilla said, really but really stressing the need unity and saying didn't need for unity and saying didn't say if we are not united, we will. do you think you would consider voting for them at the next election? am yes , i'd moved next election? am yes, i'd moved to wards voting again for the tories , listening to quasi in tories, listening to quasi in a quasican tories, listening to quasi in a quasi can become more influential and his policies that he espoused. yes lovely. okay let's go to michelle now. michelle obviously in the budget this week , there was a lot of this week, there was a lot of focus on child cab astronomic cost of it and support for families at last. so it may not come in for a while. what's your experience of child care? and what do you make of what the government announced this week? well, prior to working in retail, i worked in early years as an early years practitioner and. i was responsible for the funding of our local funding at one of our local schools, and i think it's a good thing. i think the timeline

might be a little bit unrealistic, and i know there's a lot of nurseries that closed when they brought the 30 hours in initially because , you know, in initially because, you know, what they give you per hour , it what they give you per hour, it doesn't cover all doesn't necessarily cover all your there's going to your costs. so there's going to be implications and again be implications there. and again , autism and other , go back to autism and other conditions. you know, you can have children being funded from a lot of, you know, a lot earlier in their life are they going to be practitioners experienced enough , you know to experienced enough, you know to maybe recognise the signs of certain disabilities. has that been factored in? that's something that i'd be interested to know . great. great. and to know. great. great. and finally, richard , you lived finally, richard, you lived abroad for a long time , but. but abroad for a long time, but. but you're back in york for a while . you're disillusioned with all the parties, really flirting with the lib dems who have that conference in york today. tell us a bit more about that. well, firstly, i must i think that kwasi came across really well. and unlike his contrition and acknowledgement and i'd also like to say that he was also not

in favour of the rise in corporation tax, which is great, but as far as as far as my own views on politics are concerned, living abroad, i haven't voted for a long, long time. always been tory and yes, would i vote for tory now? i'm not so sure. i'd like maybe a breath of fresh air coming in. i know that you know the lib dems aren't going to be a powerful, you know , the to be a powerful, you know, the strong party to be able to lead the party. they'll possibly a coalition if they get together, but i think i think some change of direction would be would be beneficial to country at the beneficial to the country at the moment. thank you. so i'm generally quite impressed with kwasi kwarteng and admitting that some mistakes were made and stressing the need for unity. but the jury's out on how this particular people's panel will be voting in the next elections . so back to you, camilla. to that, catherine . yes, contrition that, catherine. yes, contrition being a popular emotion among politicians . who'd have thunk politicians. who'd have thunk it? now to apply , you go to

it? now to apply, you go to gbnews.uk forward slash panel for ten people's panel next week. not sure where we're going next in the country, but it'll be somewhere interesting. so keep your eyes tuned on that. now generation gap is back . now generation gap is back. should the uk become a republic to discuss that i have angela levin , royal commentator and levin, royal commentator and nannder levin, royal commentator and narinder broadcaster and narinder kaur broadcaster and commentator why we're commentator and why we're speaking about this. in speaking about this. ladies in green is because on monday we had the commonwealth day service and was cheered . but and the king was cheered. but not king. people shouted not my king. people shouted outside westminster abbey. then on , no, on friday we on wednesday, no, on friday we had at windsor castle an extraordinary protest where people from republic, the anti—monarchy campaign group, jumped and down on the king's jumped up and down on the king's bed. and it's made think bed. and it's made me think actually is generational actually there is a generational divide here, i think divide here, because i think people of angela's generation are more favour of the are more in favour of the monarchy. people often are in this are less favour and this, are less in favour and actually , hasn't the royal actually, hasn't the royal family of a problem on family got a bit of a problem on its hand if it's having to persuade people aged 18 to 24 of the merits , the monarchy and

the merits, the monarchy and this is a problem for the king, isn't it? because he's not as popular as his late mother? no, he's not. i mean, i think he wouldn't be as popular as his late because she was on late mother because she was on the 70 years. and the throne for 70 years. and that's way it or not used to that's the way it or not used to having someone else there. i think it's only fair to wait after the coronation , but since after the coronation, but since firmly in place and then see what he wants to do . i mean, he what he wants to do. i mean, he himself, of course, has been wonderful people he's wonderful with young people he's got but yet not that popular with them if they're queuing up well in westminster shouting my king, i think that the generation maybe won't bother to vote. i don't think it interest him. i don't think that they've impressed them. there is that they don't feel they've ever had a say. on whether the royal family should exist. i'm just looking, on it. looking, i think polling on it. yeah, this is a huge yeah, i think this is a huge problem for the monarchy. i think the monarchy represents the unique generation across training. relevant, it's training. it's relevant, it's important and it's history. the voices are becoming louder and louder . negative sentiment louder. negative sentiment around the royal family is becoming louder and actually,

why are the arrests of peaceful protests of anti—brexit debate? why? okay, but what the argument could be, well , what's wrong could be, well, what's wrong with them? they've been here for centuries because they have no precedent . no, but they do. but precedent. no, but they do. but it's not democratic. a man born, a very rich man, just born into a very rich man, just born into a lineage of privilege. why should he get to become an elected president? that's probably be another very rich man. but that's a different argument. that would be a very rich man because of what he has amassed there. wealth. who should call in isolation from should we call in isolation from mass for mass murder ? they have mass for mass murder? they have amassed a i from theft and the king sits there through birth, right through not through marriage. and the younger generation are questioning actually , this is right where is actually, this is right where is ignonng actually, this is right where is ignoring the young at all? the young generation. the generation i see that there is a group of very, very loud i don't believe actually if you did it as a the people don't want the monarchy. it's much more stable . the

it's much more stable. the people feel more enhanced by the popular angela . he has more body popular angela. he has more body in heathrow and he hanging in there. let's just clarify on popularity because i did have a look at the uk of recent stats and actually approval rating is up there. so is the prince and princess of wales is it. yes, it seems like about i think he's fifth after the prince and of wales princess. i mean he's the king who aren't up there who i know you're fond of a harry and meghan nobody wants them. no did you hearing the stats as well. right. so these stats that have just flashed up there, they talk about the fact that younger people agreed on necessary only automatically in favour of the monarchy . and as people get monarchy. and as people get older, become more in older, they become more in favour they it as favour because they see it as part of the fabric of british constitutional life. you i feel that. you how do you even democracy because if you believe in democracy, you can't believe democracy because if you believe in aamocracy, you can't believe democracy because if you believe in a monarchyyou can't believe democracy because if you believe in a monarchy because believe democracy because if you believe in a monarchy because itelieve democracy because if you believe in a monarchy because it doesn't

wield can't do before wield any. you can't do before you think, oh, you know, once it's on its knees because not now you make you make out ready to kick the monarchy, to the. no, no. it's because they want regulation. no, i mean no, never apologise for their part that in the history of all to render, to just the king did give a speech. he didn't apologise hardly sure he's order . he didn't apologise hardly sure he's order. he didn't bring angela in. yes. i mean, the king is very fond of the commonwealth. he's done a great deal for them. and there were 57 different cup hang on. it's ego. it's not ego. it is. different cup hang on. it's ego. it's not ego. it is . it's to it's not ego. it is. it's to keep the british. i keep my take and 57 different countries had their senior people there for their senior people there for the commonwealth they talk to talk to william when they went through he was embarrassed. let's just let look. it was because it's embarrassing on one

occasion doesn't mean you shouldn't have a monarchy. and also if you if you don't have a monarchy , you have to think what monarchy, you have to think what you will have. instead would you like boris johnson? would you like boris johnson? would you like would you like like tony blair. would you like as you said before, the man who says. as you said before, the man who says . chris the minute there is says. chris the minute there is a huge point, i was coming here in the taxi and the driver said to me, where you going? and i him, they said, phil, to me, where you going? and i him, they said, phil , they're him, they said, phil, they're part of my family. the monarchy i love stockholm syndrome . what i love stockholm syndrome. what is the point you wanted to prepare the younger generation is what is that purpose ? why is what is that purpose? why don't we pay? why why did why did you why did prince charles not pay inheritance tax? why don't why didn't the duchy of lancaster all the duchy of cornwall pay corporation tax? you could argue that. i mean, under prince's trust, i under the prince's trust, i think calculation is he's think the calculation is he's raised over £800 million for charity. i mean, he didn't need to that while he was longest to do that while he was longest serving also serving heir, but also billionaire . he was some of his billionaire. he was some of his own money. and he's quite had

tax when he doesn't have to. so he does pay that. sorry, but you're doing is picking small details , but honestly details, but honestly utilisation is a big deal, you know, but the colonisation is working very well. thank you all organisations we could very well live britain . know like live britain. i know they like to and meet says actually to come and meet says actually i said over 50 of them who came discuss things they can compare notes, they can help each other, they want about. let me just interject ladies on the commonwealth. you do appreciate that people are queuing up to join. they're not queuing up to join. they're not queuing up to join. i know people would get bored and joined us to more people because they're actually seeing it as a way to insulate themselves from the threat from and china. they want to be in a band of countries to , talking band of countries to, talking but to protect the but i think to protect them, the commonwealth would anything commonwealth would do anything like, somalia. like, say this dreaded somalia. this is some kind of ideal and it doesn't deliver the commonwealth and commonwealth doesn't deliver and camelot downfall of camelot would be the downfall of the are the commonwealth. how are you treated my were done treated those? my were done since week she since the other week when she just past won't be just walked past she won't be the devil, but she'll be about

the devil, but she'll be about the how will the royal the queen. how will the royal family, the will for which family, how the will for which point monarchy and point the monarchy and represents inequality in wealth, race focus angela counterpoint please. i mean i think you're being absolutely ludicrous the country what the monarchy gives to us is stability. country what the monarchy gives to us is stability . people feel to us is stability. people feel that they are safe. they don't want somebody who's a an mp who then is becoming the king. they don't want somebody who is like the cruel president in france who spends absolutely zillions of money, is going to be the alternate tively they want. they let the monarchy. they like to see the people all the way through their lives. ladies people should agree to disagree agreeably as is ever the case on this show. thank you so much for your contribution to generation gap this week. the render of angela now it's mother's day. it's also the jeremy hunt announced an increase in support in childcare. we're going to be speaking to one of the key campaigners who supports this

reform. mp reform. conservative mp archibald just archibald bailey. in just a moment, with .

us welcome back. now we're going to conclude this mother's day show by talking about childcare . if by talking about childcare. if anyone wants to help with their mother , that needs some help mother, that needs some help with three children on a sunday morning. in. i'm morning. do write in. but i'm actually going to be joined by conservative for stroud and conservative mp for stroud and key for increased key campaigner for increased childcare support support childcare support and support for mothers everywhere and indeed for child indeed support for child minders. siobhan who minders. siobhan bailey, who joins now. siobhan, now you joins me now. siobhan, now you must be delighted that jeremy has effectively given you what you've campaigning for with you've been campaigning for with his on childcare . his announcement on childcare. the under twos . yeah i mean, the the under twos. yeah i mean, the chancellor actually went further than we were even asking for. so this is a massive issue, not just for parents. it's grown

parents, businesses, and it's also the child care workforce because we've seen 50% fewer childminders in the last ten years. so for the chancellor did was listen to us in terms of trying to give a boost to the hourly rates which you're michelle mentioned on the people's group in your previous clip and also try and do some stimulating of the sector in relation to childminders and make some changes to universal credit child childcare, that's exactly what we wanted. but what he's also done is said that there is max that the support only kicked in at age three. so he's brought it forward to age one and two. and of course, many parents have to go back to work or want to go back to work earlier than their child being three. is it a problem , though, three. is it a problem, though, that it only kicks in now? this policy starts next april at the earliest . obviously, people who earliest. obviously, people who have one and two year olds have got one and two year olds now are going to benefit because their will older by their children will be older by their children will be older by the the policy kicks the time that the policy kicks in. if that sense. yeah, i mean, parents are pretty desperate

actually . we i mean i actually. and we know i mean i get emails of time. it get emails all of the time. it would have made my life a lot easier if i could do what the labour party was just labour party was doing. just going promising free going around promising free stuff being realistic, stuff and not being realistic, but moment is but the truth at the moment is post—pandemic. the childcare sector needs some support. we need a greater workforce . you'll need a greater workforce. you'll know there's already, you know, there's a million vacancies across all sectors and the childcare child and early years workforces is we really need some help. so we can if we if we try to add loads of additional free hours the one and two year olds overnight the businesses wouldn't cope. so there does need to be this of step by step and what i want to see now, i do want to see increases on the hourly rates for the sector. but i also want to see what the department for education is going to do so we can support this workforce to really get motoring so that we can help parents. do you have any sympathy with your tory colleague, miriam cates, his view that actually help should

also be provided to stay home mums and we demonising stay at home moms by having this focus on women back to work as on women getting back to work as soon as they've had a baby. you know, i actually love this debate and really hope that debate and i really hope that there's to loads of there's going to be loads of conservative colleagues joining the how we help the debate about how we help families agree with and families. and i agree with and we've lots of conversations we've had lots of conversations about unfortunately there about this, unfortunately there needs be changes to the tax needs to be changes to the tax system as a whole. so we make sure that there are lots of choices. what we want to provide is parental choice because not all parents want to or need to go back to work. but as it is at the moment we know that the country has an economic problem post—pandemic. we spent so much money, etcetera, etcetera. we also know we've got a workforce problem. so i think it's right for the chancellor to look at the issues right in front of him and stimulate the and really stimulate the workforce and help parents get back into work. now, i mean, i think that the longer term changes the type of things that miriam is talking about, it could be really exciting, but i

just don't think that we could do it quickly enough. i mean, one thing is the chancellor of the exchequer has made the early years sector and parents integral to growing the country . i mean, that'sjust integral to growing the country . i mean, that's just not happened before . so credit to happened before. so credit to all of the campaigners and all of the really hardworking workforce that have raised this issue . but i workforce that have raised this issue. but i think workforce that have raised this issue . but i think step by step issue. but i think step by step and let's let's have that debate have that debate about how families are living now . yeah. families are living now. yeah. sherbourne i'm going to have to wrap up very quickly, but are you doing anything for mother's day if you're already done something very quickly, what you got to do? kids got me some got to do? my kids got me some nice little earrings from a stroud jewellery maker, i'm stroud jewellery maker, so i'm very i'm going to go very pleased and i'm going to go for but thank you . for a bit later. but thank you. wonderful. thank you very, very much for joining wonderful. thank you very, very much forjoining me this much indeed for joining me this morning. your morning. and well done for your campaigning, is heralded campaigning, which is heralded some at last for working some fruit at last for working mothers. and i think we can all welcome that. now, mother's day, i'm going to go to the pub after this. i believe my husband's

managed kind managed to organise some kind of 430 sitting. that's what motherhood all about. i'll be motherhood is all about. i'll be back at 930. but of course, up next is michael portillo .

good morning and welcome to sunday with portillo with 2 hours of good conversation , arts hours of good conversation, arts and entertainment, ethical dilemmas and a sense of the ridiculous to the chance, sir jeremy hunt unveiled his spring budget this week , with the uk budget this week, with the uk economy having recession by a whisker , did he miss the bigger whisker, did he miss the bigger picture with the collapse of the silicon valley bank in the

united states and the bailout