hello there. it's 6:00 michelle dewberry and this is dewbs& co on tuesday night i gave the order for british forces to take part in military action in iraq . tonight, british servicemen and women are engaged from air, land and sea. their mission to remove saddam hussein from power and disarm iraq of its weapons of mass destruction . now that of mass destruction. now that was 20 years ago to the day. can you believe that? was it the right decision, though? the announcement there to send our troops into iraq to topple saddam hussein? what was the

legacy ? many people to this day legacy? many people to this day still divided. many people say that tony blair should, in fact, be bars for what he did with this country in that war. do you agree with that or not? and bofis agree with that or not? and boris johnson apparent late today submitting some kind of dossier when it comes to party guards before the inquiry of the committee on wednesday . what do committee on wednesday. what do you make to that? is it going to be a load of old flannel or will it get him off the hook? and rwanda suella braverman been out there demonstrating all of the positives of rwanda and the potential life that awaits those that perhaps will be rerouted there from the uk . but will it there from the uk. but will it ever actually happen? do you believe that you agree with it or is it all just talk again and no , actually will have all of no, actually will have all of that to come . and also, i want that to come. and also, i want to ask you, have you seen the news about the emergency alerts that the government will be able to to all of our mobile to push to all of our mobile phones? do we need this? do we need sounds to go off to

need these sounds to go off to keep us safe ? or is it a little keep us safe? or is it a little bit of government overreach? we'll into it but we'll get into it all. but first, let's ourselves up to first, let's get ourselves up to speed. nice latest speed. what's a nice latest headunes speed. what's a nice latest headlines middlehurst headlines with polly middlehurst . michelle, thank you . good . michelle, thank you. good evening to you. the top story tonight on gb news. the dup says it's going to vote against the government in this week's first parliamentary vote on the new brexit deal. the prime minister agreed the new windsor framework with the eu last month, aiming to resolve some of the concerns unionists have about the northern ireland protocol. but the party leader , sir jeffrey the party leader, sir jeffrey donaldson, has acknowledged significant progress was made, but said the new proposal doesn't resolve fundamental problems. well, i recognise the progress that has been made here and i've said so and i think the prime minister has worked hard to bring about that progress. but there are issues concerned that remain for us in terms of the application of eu law, in

terms of how these arrangements will work in practise we have said we need greater clarity . we said we need greater clarity. we need reworking and change and we'll continue to engage with the prime minister and the government to secure the progress that is needed in international news. the un chief is calling on rich nations to accelerate their shift to net zero by 2040. that's after a new report by the intergovernmental planet on panel rather on climate change warned emissions must be halved by the mid 2030s. that's if the world is to have any chance of limiting temperature rises to 1.5 degrees, a key target outlined in the paris agreement. well, the report which antonio guterres has branded the survival guide for humanity, says there is little time to lose . and this afternoon, lose. and this afternoon, justice ministers from around the world have a meeting at lancaster house in london to discuss increasing support for the international criminal

court. on friday, the icc issued an arrest warrant for president putin on charges of war crimes. the deputy prime minister, dominic raab, saying the 40 nafions dominic raab, saying the 40 nations are united behind one cause to hold those response people for atrocities in to ukraine account. president putin is accused of ordering the kidnapping and deportation of thousands of ukrainian children. the kremlin called the allegations outrage and unacceptable . here the home unacceptable. here the home secretary has told mps she is satisfied that the provisions of the government's illegal migration bill are capable of being applied compatibly with the human rights convention. it comes after suella braverman said migrants could be sent to rwanda by this summer. the agreement between the two countries has been expanded to include all illegal migrant , not include all illegal migrant, not just asylum seekers . while just asylum seekers. while speaking in the house of commons , suella braverman told mps that the uk is going to work more

with france to secure cross—channel cooperation. and then she criticised labour for announcing their immigration policy on twitter. shadow home secretary has been on twitter. she's very good on twitter. she tweets it in the last ten days. labour's paltry excuse for replying . half of it stuff we're replying. half of it stuff we're already doing . the other half is already doing. the other half is that plan for open borders and unlimited migration. what i suggest they do is get off twitter , get to rwanda and i'll twitter, get to rwanda and i'll show them how to stop the pirates strike news and members of the rmt and network rail have voted to accept an offer covering paid jobs and conditions. staff are going to receive a pay rise of between 9.2 and 14.4, as well as increase back pay. the union says its 20,000 members voted 76% in favour of the new deal . 76% in favour of the new deal. secretary of transport mark harper says he hopes the union gives its members a train

operation. companies the same offer and i hope that the trade unions now put the rmt now put the fair and reasonable pay off a very similar pay offer that they now put that to their members that are working for the train, operating companies. they haven't had the chance to consider this pay offer and i hope their union gives them the chance to consider it and decide whether like their network rail workers, whether they want to settle this dispute as well . and settle this dispute as well. and lastly, downing street says it's confident the uk banking system remains safe and well after the state backed rescue of credit suisse ubs has agreed to buy its swiss rival in a deal worth more than two and a half billion pounds. in reaction this morning , the footsie fell by 1. that's to its lowest level in more than four months. but the markets have stabilised towards the end of play. shares in credit suisse, however, dived by more

than 60. that's all for me for now. back to michelle. i'm back . at seven. thanks thanks for that, polly. well, i'm michelle dewberry keeping you company right through till 7:00 tonight alongside me. i've got john mcternan , the political mcternan, the political strategist former adviser to strategist and former adviser to tony blair, which is quite handy given that tonight marks 20 years since the uk went into iraq onto the orders, of course , of tony blair, also alongside him is mark lehane, the former adviser to nadhim zahawi and is now the head of education at the centre for policy studies. good evening, gentlemen. you know the drill, don't you? it's not just about us three here. it's all about us three here. it's all about you at home as well. what's on your mind tonight? you can get in with me all the can get in touch with me all the usual ways. views that usual ways. gb views that gbnews.uk email or you can gbnews.uk is my email or you can tweet me at gb news. lots of you

getting in touch already on that top story, which will be the invasion of iraq. i also want to talk to you about the emergency alert that will now be pushed to our mobile phones, if indeed there is an emergency , some say, there is an emergency, some say, oh, how reassuring . i say pack oh, how reassuring. i say pack it in. get out of our lives. i won't let government intervention, not more. thank you very much. but you're divided on that one. and i also, of course, want to look at real wonder , lots of wonderful wonder, lots of wonderful footage, fascinating footage coming out of rwanda. that was suella braverman . will anything suella braverman. will anything actually happen, though ? will actually happen, though? will she really be able to get her scheme off the ground or not? but let's go, shall we, to our top story, because in 2003, on this very day , i cannot believe this very day, i cannot believe time flies, doesn't it? 20 years ago , uk troops led , of course, ago, uk troops led, of course, a coalition followed. should we say the us into iraq now? this issue has divided people for the years that follow it really did

divide opinion at the time and it certainly still does to this day. many people might recall, you had protests, some of the biggest protests , i think biggest protests, i think perhaps this country has ever seen. of course, those protests as well were global. it wasn't just restricted to the uk by any stretch. we were just been talking about the icc . they've talking about the icc. they've got an arrest warrant out for putin that has got a lot of people talking, john, and saying that actually if the icc wants to issue arrest warrants, they should perhaps start by looking at the likes of tony blair, the likes of bush , etc, for what likes of bush, etc, for what many would call an illegal war in iraq. your thoughts ? well, in iraq. your thoughts? well, one of the things we absolutely clear about 20 years on is it was not an illegal war. it wasn't illegal war. somebody who brought a court case been dismissed in any court, people who tried to take it to it was a legal war, was backed by a united nations resolution . and united nations resolution. and it was a war in defence of the

integrity of the united nations weapons inspection framework and the weapons inspectors right to enter a country and inspect the weapons that should be absolute because we can't keep the peace if people are refusing to accept the authority . united nations. the authority. united nations. what what putin has done is a war crime. people people you know, the footage is clear . the know, the footage is clear. the war crime and the war criminals should be arrested and prosecuted. he steps on any soil of any country who can arrest them. they should do that immediately. but the iraq war was fought in defence of the united nations, and we've seen since the war many examples since the iraq war many examples of people trying different routes to it. but we didn't succeed in libya. we didn't succeed in libya. we didn't succeed in libya. we didn't succeed in syria . interventions succeed in syria. interventions in other countries to enforce the rule of law are very difficult. what you say about the un and actually the military action wasn't sanctioned by a un resolution and the head of the un at the time he said, i think

he said it in 2004. he did call it an illegal war. so when you say it's absolutely cas science and it was a legal war, there'll be so many people out there and i could almost hear you. i can almost feel the heat from your fingers typing away. you will be getting in touch me saying that it was regarded by many people as absolutely clear british as be absolutely clear british troops are not deployed on illegal operations. the armed forces have their own legal advisers . they take legal advisers. they take legal advice. they would not have deployed none of the leaders of the armed forces would deploy our troops in an illegal way. the armed forces would deploy our troops in an illegal way . so our troops in an illegal way. so it's not simply there's been no court case taken. it's that our troops wouldn't do it. and it's if people calling it illegal war saying our armed forces and the leaves are armed forces would act illegally. that's not true. oh, well , there's this oh, well, there's this difference between knowingly doing something and misled doing something and be misled into something . mark, let into doing something. mark, let me you in thoughts. me bring you in your thoughts. i mean, at the time, i was mean, back at the time, i was a young teacher, my teacher training it felt me like

training then it felt to me like a justified we were told training then it felt to me like a justwere we were told training then it felt to me like a justwere weaponsvere told training then it felt to me like a justwere weapons ofe told training then it felt to me like a justwere weapons of mass there were weapons of mass destruction out there, that saddam a threat to lots of saddam posed a threat to lots of other countries, not just his own people. let's be clear, he was fascist psychopath, was a fascist psychopath, a dictator. was nasty piece dictator. he was a nasty piece of what's really sad we of work. what's really sad is we failed every for every failed on nearly every for every reason we went that. reason that we went into that. we failed against those aims and not only that, because tony blair government at the blair and his government at the time the strength time misrepresented the strength of they had, of evidence that they had, it started to undermine people's faith government . and we're faith in government. and we're still that now , 20 still dealing with that now, 20 years what i think is years on. and what i think is really sad is also gave some really sad is also gave some really genuinely bad regimes out there, an excuse to turn around to their own people and say, you can't the west, you can't can't trust the west, you can't trust because trust western values because look did iraq. so look what they did in iraq. so we're dealing with the we're still dealing with the mess created and mess that tony blair created and left behind . so i was not out. i left behind. so i was not out. i went to i went to iraq and a number of occasions, one, as i worked with president iyad allawi, they got the prime minister of the transitional governments. to develop governments. i worked to develop the for government for the programme for government for his also to his manifesto. i also went to the kurdish region of iraq with nadhim zahawi and the question

that all of the iraqi politicians i met barham saleh , politicians i met barham saleh, a kurdish leader of the party who was also deputy prime minister. when i was working in iraq, he said the question was not why did you come to iraq ? not why did you come to iraq? why did you wait so long? why in the face of a genocide , of the face of a genocide, of genocide of kurds , why did the genocide of kurds, why did the west stand back, stand away, do nothing ? so the question for nothing? so the question for iraqis is never why did you come here? why did you take so long? so when you look back, you know, 20 is down the line. you look back at the decisions that tony blair made, the way he can express things, do you actually think that he acted in good faith? do you look back and think, did you set absolutely cast for that? and that you so do you don't think that he exaggerated? i think the claims when he said forget to vote so you go tony took it to a vote at the house of commons. this was decision of the uk parliament. it wasn't a decision of tony

blair alone, but many things that it was put to the parliament as a democratic vote, that every mp who voted for this has as much responsibility as tony but many of my tony blair. but many of my viewers and i see you coming viewers and i can see you coming in on your email thick and fast and i'm going to bring lots of you in as well throughout the programme, certainly before the end, people say yes, end, many people will say yes, people on but they people voted on it, but they were the information were misled. the information that received was that they received was exaggerated. these claims exaggerated. all these claims about weapons of mass destruction, 45 minutes. think destruction, 45 minutes. i think the claims from the information that the uk security services had is the same information the french and the germans had is just that those countries didn't want to deploy troops. it's not that people disagreed. there was not a contest of information on security service from the security service from the security services. was that security services. it was that the britain went with it. america and other partners into iraq and european countries and the french and the germans were happy to come in afterwards, take the post—war reconstruction contracts. they didn't want to come in, in in the alliance that

liberated iraq. and that's like that's a fair choice to them. but nobody of any of the western countries said the security information that says something different. the man was a genocidal , fascist psychopath , genocidal, fascist psychopath, you know, had form and he had been talking about and developing this the weapons of mass destruction and that we had to decide whether to act in defence of the united nations weapons inspectors or not. the americans acted on the and britain acted with them . but britain acted with them. but backing up a un resolution . and backing up a un resolution. and so the hunt is an arbitrary way . it claims it's like sexed up dossier is whatever it was called, dodgy, that's all untrue in your mind . tony blair made in your mind. tony blair made a good faith decision that the security the security information was shared across the western world. people differed about whether you should act on it. and this is a perfectly fair case to say a fascist dictator should be left

alone to torture their own people and by and large, that's actually what's done around the world be done into it. i mean, rwanda, when rwanda had its genocide , right, the tory genocide, right, the tory government stood government at the time stood aside, did nothing, did nothing . one the biggest genocides, . one of the biggest genocides, the fact that we acted , we did the fact that we acted, we did act on good faith and that , i act on good faith and that, i think is really important to understand. mark i think if we take a step back, tony blair was a massive disappointment and in so many ways he came in, he said he's to clean up politics. he's going to clean up politics. he was a pretty straight kind of guy handed undermining politics because of bad decisions he made. he said he's going to improve education, education, education know education standards fell. i know what's schools. time what's working schools. the time money and money went up standards fell and schools less safe schools were a lot less safe because policies pursued. because of policies he pursued. he chance when he came in he had a chance when he came in because massive budget because of a massive budget surplus, but they broke the government. by the time 2000 government. so by the time 2000 came the financial came on with the financial crash, had no money left to crash, we had no money left to sort out. pump money into sort out. they pump money into the they didn't reform it. the nhs. they didn't reform it. they welfare system they left the welfare system that to work, that paid people to not work,

made worse if they're made people worse off if they're working they didn't work, working and if they didn't work, so massively so is massively, massively disappointing. and i think that's main things that's one of the main things that's one of the main things that to the situation we're that led to the situation we're in where are really in now where people are really lost in a lot of lost faith in a lot of politicians. i'm not saying it just start there. he really has always said going always said he's going to protect the union. the devolution deal has always been a union. a lot of years of tory lobbyists. still tony's fault. lobbyists. i still tony's fault. that's thing is tony that's that's the thing is tony blair titanic dominates blair a titanic figure dominates politics that politics to the extent that having stood down in two thousand and seven ever anything is still his is still his fault. title to of ship more like title to a lot of ship more like let's just remind ourselves , let's just remind ourselves, shall we? i think i've got a clip actually of the chilcot report . many, clip actually of the chilcot report. many, many of you will be reminding yourselves of this. it went on this investigation cost millions of pounds, took i think about seven years. let's have a look . because many have a look. because many conclusions were reached the back of this. let's have a listen to some of them . we have listen to some of them. we have concluded that the uk chose to join the invasion of iraq before

the peaceful options for disarmament had been exhausted . disarmament had been exhausted. military action at that time was not a last resort . we have also not a last resort. we have also concluded that the judgements about the severity of the threat posed by iraq's weapons of mass destruction , wmd , were presented destruction, wmd, were presented with a certainty that was not justified despite explicit warnings , the consequences of warnings, the consequences of the invasion were underestimated . the planning and preparation for iraq after saddam hussein were wholly inadequate . the were wholly inadequate. the government failed to achieve its stated objectives . that said, stated objectives. that said, sir john chilcot speaking that when you listen to that and i'm sure you're familiar with it already, doesn't that make you kind of question your viewpoint now? he's met chilcot and his inquiry are making different judgements on the same information , the same evidence

information, the same evidence that tony blair had the essence of leadership is to choose to judge and to act is not to dodge and duck. you know, probably what we did in some of the other interventions that tony did, like in kosovo or actually less well , less like in kosovo or actually less well, less founded in international law than what we did in iraq. but people don't mind that because actually the course events were saved. if we hadnt course events were saved. if we hadn't acted as loads of kids killed tony blair in kosovo because because kosovo was saved. there's loads of people in sierra leone who still celebrate the liberation by the british army from the fact of the violence there is a people can go back and relitigate . the can go back and relitigate. the decision was made voted on by the house of commons. chilcot spent years and he basically he found no smoking gun, no smoking memo you just said in his view and the view of his committee there could have been other things done well, the there was

also a time window because as the summer comes in is actually harder and harder to do, have any realistic military action. if you build up with the backing of a un resolution and to a point and you say unless yes, then we will. and then you go actually, you know what? we might not you basically you've taken you've taken the armed force up to the will take them down again. and saddam was never going to take that seriously after that. so i think you know, i think back and try and do it in 2020 vision i chilcot was doing was essentially doing but he was essentially tabling a set of different opinions on the same evidence. of course people are different opinions, but 412 mp at the same venue as tony blair, i think the thing that is so toxic and it's a bit how some people feel regarding lockdowns and of regarding lockdowns and some of the through the stuff we've been through with and covid now, with the pandemic and covid now, particularly the whatsapp particularly in the whatsapp files, is that there was confidence falsely confidence was falsely projecting it actually projecting it when actually being honest the being more honest about the doubts, reasonable doubts doubts, the reasonable doubts that would would that people would have had would have maintain have enabled people to maintain

trust. leader was sound trust. a strong leader was sound to , look, i can't be sure to say, look, i can't be sure about this. we are pretty confident that is going on, confident that this is going on, but be sure. but as a but i can't be sure. but as a result, i'm going to go ahead but i can't be sure. but as a resulthisn going to go ahead but i can't be sure. but as a resulthis and ing to go ahead but i can't be sure. but as a resulthis and let's) go ahead but i can't be sure. but as a resulthis and let's see ahead but i can't be sure. but as a resulthis and let's see whatd but i can't be sure. but as a resulthis and let's see what we with this and let's see what we can find out to standard and make everything sound seem so black to make black and white to make everything so certain about black and white to make everytand| so certain about black and white to make everytand what so certain about black and white to make everytand what would rtain about black and white to make everytand what would happen but wmd and what would happen afterwards and afterwards that was wrong. and that's were so felt, that's why people were so felt, so let about it so left, let down about it afterwards. sir keir starmer, actually, he referred to the iraq war as being illegal a couple of years ago. i would be fascinated to see whether or not he still holds that view. many of you getting in touch saying, wouldn't it interesting wouldn't it be interesting to hear view of dr. david hear the view of dr. david kelly? yes, it would. but of course , you'll all be familiar course, you'll all be familiar with the fact that that is not possible, because he died, apparently by suicide . i've got apparently by suicide. i've got to say to me, when i looked the weapons of mass destruction , weapons of mass destruction, when david kelly was never questioning the fact that they were weapons of mass destruction, he actually said so the tragic the tragic death of

david kelly is completely unconnected to all of this. look 179, we had a british military personnel lost their lives in this conflict. let's not forget that actually what happened was after blair and bush had gone into iraq , there was a humongous into iraq, there was a humongous void that wasn't any consideration at all as to what they were going to do, or at least seemingly no consideration as to what they were going to do when saddam hussein was indeed toppled. it a huge void. toppled. it was a huge void. civil war carried for years civil war carried on for years afterwards. many people would say actually , that when look say actually, that when you look at a lot of the kind of rise of jihadist groups, a lot of it would stem from the voids left by blair and bush. to me, they seem to be two men that were desperate to almost play soldiers as though it was some toy game . very sad consequences toy game. very sad consequences that i would say continue to this day. many of you are in touch with me saying that no one and nothing will ever convince you that this was a legal war.

many of you are of the view that tony blair should have been tried and should indeed pre—empt the outcome of a trial. but many if you do believe that, tony blair does deserve to be behind bars, i want you to keep your thoughts coming in 20 years to the day when the uk joined the us in invading iraq. was it worth it? is the world better ? worth it? is the world better? is it safer as a result of those actions? the first thing is an illegal war. they should probably name the law they think was broken. the nobody ever does go illegal . was broken. the nobody ever does go illegal. illegal. was broken. the nobody ever does go illegal . illegal. they go illegal. illegal. they disagree with it. they disagree with it like everybody free to disagree with it. but just call somebody you disagree with. illegal is like, okay, well, okay , well, is there a challenge okay, well, is there a challenge to that ? many of you getting in to that? many of you getting in touch saying illegal touch is saying it's an illegal war. laws would you say? war. what laws would you say? well, broken . what what kind of well, broken. what what kind of charges do you think should be brought against tony blair if you're in the camp? they're telling me, surmise that you

would . in, touch would challenge. get in, touch me email, gb views at me on the email, gb views at gbnews.uk is how you can reach me tonight or you can tweet me michelle or at gb news michelle dewberry or at gb news if is your thing. michelle dewberry or at gb news if is your thing . i'm going if that is your thing. i'm going to a quick break when to take a quick break when i come and we'll have lots of come back and we'll have lots of your thoughts. but i also do want to talk to you about rwanda, apparently, as well as out there . and it's all going to out there. and it's all going to happen. out there. and it's all going to happen . it your thoughts? happen. is it your thoughts? i'll you . there's help for households. are you over state pension age? if your weekly income is below £182.60, or £278.70 if you live with a partner, you could be eligible for pension credit, even if you own your home or have savings. it's worth, on average, £3,500 a year and you could get help with heating bills and more, plus up to £900 in cost of living payments.

in two. hello there . i'm michelle hello there. i'm michelle dewberry, keeping you company until 7:00 tonight. alongside me, john mcternan is a political strategist and former adviser to tony blair. and mike lehane is the former adviser to nadhim zahawi and now the head of education at the centre for policy studies is at run, says michelle. there's so much going on in today's day and age. why did you just choose to focus on something that happened 20 years

ago? about the iraq war ago? i talk about the iraq war well, ron , i would well, because ron, i would actually say that if you look at some the challenges and some of the challenges and situations that have in the situations that we have in the world you can you can world today, you can you can kind of trace many of them back in origins to perhaps the invasion of iraq. so i think whilst indeed a historic event, it very much has effects, an implication for the world that we live in today . we were asking we live in today. we were asking you , though, if you're someone you, though, if you're someone that's getting in touch saying stick tony blair behind bars , stick tony blair behind bars, which law did he break? what would you try him on? that is john mctiernan's pushback to that. so keep your thoughts coming in. but in the meantime , coming in. but in the meantime, i will move on and i'm going to talk rwanda . you might talk about rwanda. you might have noticed suella braverman been that this weekend. she's saying that she's encouraged by the constructive talks with echr on how planned in june last yeah on how planned in june last year. remind yourself the court granted an injunction which of course grounded what would have been the first flight there . been the first flight there. she's been doing a lot of

talking while she's been there, showing a lot of the shook, chasing a lot of the facilities that have been built. mark are talking of talking about the kind of prosperous, happy , safe life prosperous, happy, safe life that would have that people would have that would be perhaps rerouted to rwanda. are you in agreement with her and with her policy? well, we've got something well, we've got to do something to with the small boats to do with the small boats crisis a whole number of crisis for a whole number of reasons. it's not fair reasons. you know, it's not fair that people can come to this country without following legal and normal routes and at the moment, our migration policy, a big chunk of it is in the hands of illegal people smugglers. so we've got to do something now. hopefully this rwanda scheme will work because if it doesn't, we're we're in a mess. and we're we're in a real mess. and the a lot of the government spent a lot of credibility on about credibility on the line about it. so i think we got to give it a go. i think it's only right that she's drawing attention to it because we want people to know doing if going know we're doing if it's going to effective. i think to be effective. and i think people to stop slagging people got to stop slagging rwanda off like a it's rwanda off like it's a it's a developing country. it's been doing really, really well in recent i how much recent times. i wonder how much of criticism people are

of the criticism people are throwing this is throwing that this game is actually racism? know, actually racism? and you know, under terms of under the ground in terms of being of country being critical of a country because in why did because it's in africa. why did you when he said, is you just laugh when he said, is it racism? why people are criticising rwanda? i think it's probably a point because probably got a point because this is the last refuge, somebody got somebody whose argument has got nothing on to say. the nothing to stand on to say. the criticism is racist. suella braverman is paying £140 million of your viewers to money rwanda to purchase 300 places, 300. thatis to purchase 300 places, 300. that is fewer places than the number of people have arrived in the last two or three days in small boats. so the just to be took the people of a small bus in the last three days that's more than all this. all those places that she's paid for with £140 million of viewers , money, £140 million of viewers, money, taxpayers money. secondly, we know home home office officials are processing five of cases a month. that's why there's a backlog . that's why it'll take backlog. that's why it'll take forever to get through all of

the people who taken off the boats. if this law passes in the form that she wants , if the law form that she wants, if the law passes in the forms that she wants , boats keep coming. we're wants, boats keep coming. we're going to end up in a situation where she has to create the home secretary suella braverman has to create somewhere to hold a holding pattern for the people who come every day, every week, every month, because her law says, you , even if you are says, you, even if you are a victory of modern slavery, a victim of modern slavery cannot be somebody who gains any refugee status in our country. so if you say that to people, why are they going to hang around for the case never to be processed over the years? that could be a process to put the whole thing is farcical, is based on a notion that by not allowing legal routes for hong kong and ukraine into this country, the people will for some reason not come to a country that they want to come

to because they have connection to because they have connection to this country , because they to this country, because they admire our country, despite what we're threatening to to them, we're threatening to do to them, because know this is a because they know this is a great to come so great country to come to. so we're going got a chaotic we're going we've got a chaotic there is meant there were 300 places is meant to be something and you get this mixed message she goes suella braverman goes to rwanda goes is great and at the same time there's a deterrent. what is it deterrent or is it brilliance in nice or is it not? well, it's a bit better. it's a bit of both. yeah in one sense, what is intended first and foremost to be a deterrent, because when you say, oh yeah, you know, these people, they choose the uk because they've got connections . think it's a nice place . they think it's a nice place to be. mean, forgive me, but to be. i mean, forgive me, but if actually fearing for your if you actually fearing for your life, your primary life, surely your primary concern i need to be safe. concern is i need to be safe. that's priority number one. yeah. you people people from afghanistan can want to be with an afghan community. they want to be living in a country which they worked for when we were in occupation, supporting the government in afghanistan .

government in afghanistan. people in somaliland are a connection to the uk since the days of the british empire, as does afghanistan. people have a connection here. they've got family here. they want to be reunited with their family. there's all the reasons they want here. and main want to come here. and the main thing is, you know, in terms of burden don't take burden sharing, we don't take our share even within our fair share even within europe. most most refugees, europe. and most most refugees, asylum seekers or displaced people live very close to the borders of the country. they've been displaced from the main nafion been displaced from the main nation that people are coming from on these boats is albania , from on these boats is albania, isn't it? no. there's a proportion of them in that nation. so when you look at the country that's sending the bulk of the people , it is albania is of the people, it is albania is not suella braverman , but suella not suella braverman, but suella braverman is one of the 12 men has been to albania and paid loads of money to their country's government to get them to stop sending people. you do see that a large proportion know most and most, most, most. most

people have been most people who've been processed from albania, who've actually had the case through. case gone through. they have been stay here. now, been approved to stay here. now, most people have come from albania, even had their albania, haven't even had their claims yet. so these claims looked at yet. so these claims looked at yet. so these claims these stats that claims that these stats that people me, they to people give me, they relate to god the bulk of the god knows when the bulk of the people yes, i know people in terms of yes, i know it's not the majority of the group, the primary country group, but the primary country in volume that people in terms of volume that people are coming from is albania . so are coming from is albania. so all things that you talk all the things that you talk about, oh yeah, these people, they've helped rebuild the nafion they've helped rebuild the nation the rest of it, nation and all the rest of it, it's relevant to them. it's not relevant to them. well, if just come in here, if they just come in here, i mean st johnstone quite a good job of describing various job of describing the various different strands. the government and government is taking to try and get of the borders. issue get on top of the borders. issue one of the first responsibility of a government control of a government is to control the of that country and the borders of that country and to keep people safe through doing by people who want to doing that by people who want to come into the country and people are killed in that country. so we the small boat we need to do the small boat crossing on top of crossing stuff and get on top of that. otherwise people support for the most one for migration with the most one of tolerant, welcoming of the most tolerant, welcoming countries planet. people countries on the planet. people support welcoming newcomers.

well, get well, collapse if we don't get on small boats thing on top of the small boats thing if we don't. and that requires us to make deals with different countries. be rwanda to countries. it might be rwanda to trump from coming off trump a people from coming off here place. it here in the first place. it might time for countries like might be time for countries like albanian. be about albanian. it might be about talking like talking to countries like albania. a lot of people coming from. let's not forget, from. and let's not forget, john, support for john, lots of support for immigration undermined in immigration was undermined in this 2004 this country when in 2004 the great blair to open great tony blair decided to open the the accession the doors to the accession countries the european union countries in the european union rather most of rather than doing what most of the did, which was to the other eu did, which was to control and never control it. and we've never gotten migration since gotten top of migration since and no one in this country is very few people in this country are opposed migration figures very few people in this country arethe)osed migration figures very few people in this country arethe governmentration figures very few people in this country arethe governmentratihowgures very few people in this country arethe governmentrati�*how wees by the government on how we manage right people manage the right to which people can so we can them can come here so we can them look after the people that already after the already hate and look after the people are coming here, people that are coming here, like did the like my relatives did in the past. right what's the biggest lie? this is the biggest lies even lie? this is the biggest lies ever. on the ever. toys. so one on the accession countries joined the european union and we gave the whole the european union gave them rights join and to be a part of europe as part of the bulwark against russia which

actually it turns out russia is an aggressor to it once they joined on accession everybody who lived in that country had the right to reside in britain, not to work , but to reside. so not to work, but to reside. so the question was not whether people would come here. they had the right to come here. it was whether they would work here. and we had labour shortages. then into our then we welcomed into our country with a booming economy under with under the labour party, with growing growing economy. growing jobs, a growing economy. people and they people came here and they and they and look they contributed and they look at the size of company now to know i don't think know of course i don't think really because european really because the european union the great institution is partly a an economic union. it was partly a union of countries against russian russian aggression in ukraine was in the european union. it wouldn't have been invaded. but what happened in 2004, markets, people came to work. people are going to work here. yes but there was no control. so germany for example, they maximum they put their maximum transitional control into the work place because about seven years exacerbated shortage of years we exacerbated shortage of british workers by creating a

tax credit state nonsense which made people worse off if they went into it, then if they stayed, which is not true. typescript tax is universal credit. work credit. this made going to work . make you impoverished. you tax credits are actually a very good way of making that list. a lot of people far worse off if they went into a hole, not much better, which is why universal credit came along. universal credit, then impoverished people took on tax credits. it took a cut on tax credits. it was a cut for working people. it cut for people not working as it may. families into may. it pushed families into poverty. we've poverty. that's why we've got such a of child poverty such a crisis of child poverty in uk is nonsense . you don't in the uk is nonsense. you don't think it reduced the wages of british workers? you know, fields a one oh, well i i've fields a one at. oh, well i i've let me ask you there's no evidence there's absolutely no evidence there's absolutely no evidence as wages increasing what what's been cutting wages in the uk has actually been a tory government. right. wonderful viewers and listeners of gb news do you work in, for example? i don't know the trade or something like that. let's talk about 2004 when you did

have those huge . well, no, have those huge. well, no, actually, you asked to find proof . you actually that shows proof. you actually that shows that wages were depressed and it was warned about at the time. it was warned about at the time. it was ignored at the time. and thatis was ignored at the time. and that is actually max but on it did ten people against migration in lots of ways been in trouble about four because i'm about four times because i'm supposed to have gone to the break a good few minutes ago, but enjoying that but i was enjoying that conversation. will listen conversation. so i will listen to instruction in ear and to the instruction in my ear and i finally go to the break. when i finally go to the break. when i back, i might just pick i come back, i might just pick back point. on the back up on that point. on the wages guys, i'm sure we'll wages you guys, i'm sure we'll have but i also want have some views, but i also want to what do you make to to ask you, what do you make to the emergency alert that the government will now be able to push to phones? do you push on to your phones? do you think fantastic? you think it's fantastic? thank you for me or do you for keeping me safe or do you think couldn't get off my think i couldn't get off my device? none is indeed. i'll see you into .

hi there. this is dewbs& co michelle dewberry, keeping you company till 7:00 tonight. john, make ten and the format. tony blair adviser and mike lehane, former adviser to nadhim zahawi me company or you're getting people hot under the collar. johni people hot under the collar. john i was mark was saying that in 2004 when we expanded our labour market to include people from the eastern bloc that perhaps did indeed have an impact in driving down uk wages .john impact in driving down uk wages . john said, no, it didn't. and that there was no proof. so i indulge myself in the break up indulge myself in the break up in a very quick google reported in a very quick google reported in the guardian, no less. so i think that means that you like it. there was a major report conducted by the equality and human rights commission which says that the uk is wage is at the lowest paid people , was the lowest paid people, was indeed negatively impacted by the eastern europe and workers coming to this country like a good labour blairite. i hate the guardian . well, there you go.

guardian. well, there you go. you said there was no proof and i've just found some with a very swift google search anyway. right. | swift google search anyway. right. i a smartphone right. do i have a smartphone phone? live your life phone? do you live your life terrified. worried about what? the next emergency will come across your door ? if you do, across your door? if you do, that's good news for you, because the government now will because the government now will be able push an emergency warning siren to your telephone and it'll be able to alert us to and it'll be able to alert us to a life threatening situation like flooding, wildfires and all the rest of it. i don't like the sound of this, quite frankly, because they will push onto your phone. it'll kind of take over your phone, if you like, until you've done something with it, cleared it or acknowledged it or whatever. bit whatever. it's a little bit overreach liking. john, overreach for my liking. john, your well, just your thoughts? well, just imagine the chinese communist imagine if the chinese communist party could through tech talk control all this emergency alert , what would they do to you ? , what would they do to you? indeed, i do think there's a lot of paranoia going about this. of paranoia going on about this. i think are going to be i do think you are going to be moments you might want the moments when you might want the government send an emergency government to send an emergency alert and i suspect that the

wall to moment. well, actually might what if there was the next pandemic and actually was as it will be worse than the one we had and that we had to move urgently to do something. i do think there are going to be and you shouldn't test out your system the first time you need to use it . you do need to test to use it. you do need to test the system so i'm quite you know, i, i can't quite see what people are worried about now. i mean, listen, the government have the ability to interrupt tv, broadcast radio broadcasts and this is just another way of getting important messages to people . my big worry about this. people. my big worry about this. so is we have to make we have to be vigilant and make over be vigilant and make sure over time the thresholds stay time that the thresholds stay high. sum might also be high. my sum might also be watching here and watching on the telly here and rolling eyes at me, but rolling their eyes at me, but like phones. how are like my also got phones. how are we going to make sure that people who are vulnerable or who are young or don't quite understand what's on understand what's going on, on unnecessarily terrified by the messages pushing through. messages were pushing through. so got to think so two things we got to think about. is when we send those

about. one is when we send those messages you know, the messages because, you know, the risk time, will risk is over time, it will become easier easier. we'll become easier and easier. we'll say, well, maybe we'll send a message they don't get message out if they don't get the brush, it's ten, 20,000 steps kind of stuff. steps to do that kind of stuff. so to stop that from so we've got to stop that from happening. but also, how do we make vulnerable people are make sure vulnerable people are unnecessarily we're unnecessarily freaked out? we're doing trigger doing these tests, our trigger warning, trigger before warning, trigger warning before you emergency electrical warning, trigger warning before y(warning emergency electrical warning, trigger warning before y(warning before 'gency electrical warning, trigger warning before y(warning before johny electrical warning, trigger warning before y(warning before john comes'ical a warning before john comes on dewbs could use this dewbs& co. they could use this technology that. say technology for that. you say i worry about of this stuff worry about all of this stuff because i think the lunacy of the lockdowns, which the prolonged lockdowns, which i know you and i disagree on, but the absolute lunacy, the government can't believe that. look cannot believe that actually people followed their orders and their instructions didn't leave their own houses. and the response itself, you could imagine if matt hancock had had access to this system dunng had had access to this system during the pandemic. that's what we've got to go ahead around andy and miss key to message. yeah i just this is hancock in charge emergency alert is a charge the emergency alert is a very warning to me . you very good warning to me. you just literally have got yourself in a situation where we've got ourselves situation ourselves in a situation where

we've empowered our we've now empowered our governments. i think they've got a too on their a little bit too drunk on their own power . so, yes, you can sit own power. so, yes, you can sit there and say, oh, well, whatever. and this is just sensible to me . i worry about sensible to me. i worry about the scope creep of this. i don't like the fact that actually might on me to have to opt might be on me to have to opt out these kind of things. why out of these kind of things. why would that i'm going would you assume that i'm going to into it the first to opt into it in the first place? don't. if there's a place? i don't. if there's a major catastrophe is major catastrophe and it is actually catalyst offy, actually a major catalyst offy, actually a major catalyst offy, a genuine one, then i'm sure i'll about it before boris i'll know about it before boris johnson needs to ping my phone and tell me about it. quite frankly. and i just want us to move on from this culture of absolute fear. everyone is terrified during covid, and i think it's time to move on from it now, don't you ? right. i want it now, don't you? right. i want to bring in of your to bring in some of your thoughts some of this, thoughts to some of this, because lots of you because lots and lots of you have been in contact about the iraq, which is where we started the programme . lots of as the programme. lots of you as well getting in contact about that. immigration thing, about whether or not it was right to have kind of transitional have those kind of transitional controls lifted in this

controls be lifted in this country. when we expanded our labour market, the eu . lots of labour market, the eu. lots of you getting in touch with me now and saying michel, why don't you just turn off your emergency alerts if they bother you so much ? well, why should i have much? well, why should i have to? why should i be? in a situation where the default setting is that they government or whichever government can reach when i'm relaxing at her, minding my own business, why should the be to have to should the onus be me to have to opt out of something? is the opt out of something? why is the assumption that opted in the assumption that opted in in the first place? maybe, or just a big bunch that are way more trusting than me ? i'm going to trusting than me? i'm going to take a quick break. when i come back, i'm going to have lots of your because i really your feedback because i really want bring you into the want to bring you into the conversation that we're having tonight. lessons tonight. so iraq, what lessons do think we learned? the do you think we learned? is the world by now ? if world a better place by now? if you want tony blair. tony blair to be bars for what's. to be behind bars for what's. that's john was asking. that's what john was asking. and your on some of your thoughts as well on some of the bits that we've been the other bits that we've been discussing. i'll see into .

hello there. i'm michel jay. we're keeping you company right through till 7:00 tonight alongside me, former tony blair adviser john alongside me, former tony blair adviserjohn mcternan and former adviserjohn mcternan and former adviser as well to nadhim zahawi at mark lyon , full of advisers, at mark lyon, full of advisers, former advisers . i wonder why no former advisers. i wonder why no one's ever asked me to advise them on anything for you. because hope for me at all. because hope for me at all. because i think you give opinions , not advice, and you opinions, not advice, and you keep giving the opinion until they adopted your opinion . they adopted your opinion. advisers have to live with we say it and then they don't do it. well, i think actually the country probably be in a bit of a better position if people actually were not afraid of speaking truth to power and didn't shut up. actually until they were listened to . that's they were listened to. that's what i think. do you agree? yes you know, that's the phrase speaking to is speaking truth to power is a phrase from wing pacifist

phrase from a left wing pacifist ngo the fifties . that's where ngo in the fifties. that's where that that was coined . first, that that was coined. first, someone once one of my feet was on my show, once said i was like a member of the communist party. well, that's what i was . that's well, that's what i was. that's actually the thing. i was wondering what. it was that's what you all often make me think of. yes. well called it of. yes. well being called it often present dupes. yeah, present . yeah. john has been present. yeah. john has been a sort of saint michel rwanda is geanng sort of saint michel rwanda is gearing up to be able to take thousands of people , which would thousands of people, which would indeed become a deterrent. john says the only reason that so many of these people want to be here is because we are a soft touch. here is because we are a soft touch . why do you laugh at that? touch. why do you laugh at that? because i didn't say. or a soft touch? no. my view is that they're not. you so there's more giving in now. there's more than one, john, in the world. john, my view, i think we've given £6.85 a day for everything you need to live on, including clothes is some not actually being a soft well people would

push back on that john and they would say you've been put up in four star hotels. you get all your food paid for, you get all your food paid for, you get all your and pieces taken care your bits and pieces taken care of. what it you actually of. so what is it you actually need spending money that's need spending money for? that's what people i can hear. yeah, i can you shouting about can hear you at shouting about your kids clothes your sister, your kids clothes for clothes for kids clothes for the kids, john. mean, come on, the kids, john. i mean, come on, you these boots you can't get off these boots days without inundated by you can't get off these boots day charities, inundated by you can't get off these boots day charities, givinginundated by you can't get off these boots day charities, giving you dated by the charities, giving you absolutely that you absolutely everything that you need when it comes to clothing and that. but the and things like that. but the core that other john core things that other john said are wrong. john and so i won't call gearing up for call john said is gearing up for thousands signed an agreement for you know for £140 million for you know for £140 million for 300 places if suella braverman wants to buy thousands of places she's going to have to pay of places she's going to have to pay hundreds of military , maybe pay hundreds of military, maybe £1,000,000,000 to rwanda and that's not being talked about. well, yeah, but lest we forget, we spent £6 million there or thereabouts in hotels. every single day. final thoughts to you, mark, but it's we're going

to be about the effect that the rwanda scheme has on putting people off coming over. it might be that we need 300, 3000, 10,000 places over there before people get the message. we don't know. we've got to give it a go there, haven't we? because right now, our immigration policy or a big chunk of it is in the hands of horrible, nasty people smugglers. and that's not all, indeed. of you at home indeed. many of you at home disagree tonight about disagree with me tonight about these alerts. tracey is these alerts. tracey says is absolutely with absolutely nothing wrong with them. america, them. adrian says in america, these lives up , these have saved many lives up, slowly support them at lots of you still getting in touch and say you want tony blair behind bars . so your support told him bars. so your support told him what law want in charge. what law you want in charge. also, support for big also, more support for big nanny, support for tony nanny, less support for tony blair as well, i'm hearing. well yeah, you go. who'd have yeah, there you go. who'd have thought you had that thought that you had that anyway? look this. this is anyway? look at this. this is all got. time for. all we've got. time for. thank you very much , john. winding up you very much, john. winding up my audience , i treats and my audience, i got treats and marks . thank you as well very marks. thank you as well very much for your company. j w says that you love having your tea, watching you every night. i

appreciate it. enjoy your mail. have a good night and i'll see you tomorrow. hello there. i'm craig stone here with your latest forecast met latest forecast on the met office. we go for the office. well, as we go for the next few days, he's set to remain unsettled across the country, will all see some further showers, further spells of and showers, but remain a mild taste but it will remain a mild taste situation in atlantic situation out in the atlantic and area of low pressure and a huge area of low pressure really dominating proceedings this here will this weather front here will move as we go through monday move in as we go through monday night, given another spell of rain of us. so looking rain for all of us. so looking at situation the rest of at the situation for the rest of this .

there's help for households. are you over state pension age? if your weekly income is below £182.60, or £278.70 if you live with a partner, you could be eligible for pension credit, even if you own your home or have savings. it's worth, on average, £3,500 a year and you could get help with heating bills and more, plus up to £900 in cost of living payments. it's all about family being in people's living rooms, all the interaction , getting to know who interaction, getting to know who our viewers and listeners are. when i was young, my dad used to say, not, not stop arguing . i say, not, not stop arguing. i wanted an outlet. the label me to give my opinion . people are to give my opinion. people are going through a really hard time right now and i know that you don't feel like you're being listened to the establishment

listened to by the establishment . i came to gb news because it's the people's channel and i want the people's channel and i want the to their say the audience to have their say on events of the day. we're on the events of the day. we're dynamic. we do something different. democracy shows the wisdom nation is in its wisdom of the nation is in its people. i get to travel to find out what the story is from a personal perspective. the british people aren't fools. we know , when we're not being told know, when we're not being told the story . we've got to the full story. we've got to work how moves work out how britain moves forward from is the best forward from this is the best country in the world. the establishment had their chance. now we're here to represent your views . britain's watching. views. britain's watching. britain's watching. britain's watching. we're proud to be gb news. the people's channel, britain's news. channel good evening . britain's news. channel good evening. i'm britain's news. channel good evening . i'm live from good evening. i'm live from scampton in lincolnshire . i'm scampton in lincolnshire. i'm right next door to the former raaf base that had been a business plan to do something

really exciting . with that piece really exciting. with that piece of land. but now it would appear for the home office wanted to become a migrant detention centre. i'm going to be debating and asking the question and asking tonight. the question can often be saved? can scamps often be saved? because i think the home of the dambusters raid should be saved for future generation . and i for future generation. and i feel very strongly indeed with all of that. let's get the news with polly middlehurst . nigel, with polly middlehurst. nigel, thank you and good evening to you.the thank you and good evening to you. the top story tonight on gb news. the dup in northern ireland says it's going to vote against the in this week's first parliamentary vote on the new brexit deal. the prime minister agrees the new windsor framework with the eu last month aiming to resolve some of the concerns unionists have had about the northern ireland protocol . also northern ireland protocol. also in the news today, the home secretary told mps she is set aside the provisions of the government's illegal migration bill are capable of being

applied. compatibly