prime good evening. i'm radisson in the gb newsroom. tensions have heightened between russia and ukraine with russian state media alleging that a blast in the country's tula region was caused by a ukrainian drone packed with explosives. three people were reportedly injured when they were struck by shrapnel. however, ukraine has not claimed responsibility for this alleged attack . it follows pleas from attack. it follows pleas from the european union for russia to halt the stationing of nuclear weapons in belarus . cave's weapons in belarus. cave's foreign ministry has called the decision provocative and is calling for a session of the un

security council . well, england security council. well, england has beaten ukraine to nil in their group c euro qualifiers match. both teams joined for a photograph before the game . photograph before the game. players clutched a ukrainian flag with peace written across it. had given 1003 tickets to ukrainian refugees and their british hosts to attend the game. first half goals from harry kane bukayo saka were enough to seal the win. they will face off again in september for vile offenders who commit anti—social behaviour will be forced to clean up their communities as part of the prime minister's new immediate justice scheme. under the plans to be announced tomorrow, local authorities will be given new powers to quickly and visibly punish criminals. those who spray graffiti or commit other vandalism will have to fix the damage within 48 hours. while the penalties include picking up litter, washing police cars or doing unpaid work in shops ,

doing unpaid work in shops, while as part of the crackdown . while as part of the crackdown. the government has also announced a ban on the sale of laughing gas. levelling up secretary michael gove telling broadcasters that nitrous oxide canisters are helping to fuel anti—social and turning public spaces into drug taking arenas on an international news the us president has declared a state of emergency and mrs. after a tornado killed at least 26 people. the twister swept through the state and on into alabama, cutting a path of destruction. 170 miles long. around 11,000 residents there are still without power. they say there was no safe place to hide. secretary of homeland security alejandro mayorkas says they need to be more prepared for disastrous weather . we see for disastrous weather. we see extreme weather events increasing , extreme weather events increasing, only increasing in gravity and severity . and in gravity and severity. and in frequency . and we have to build

frequency. and we have to build our communities to be best prepared for them to prevent the devastation to the extent possible , to be able to quickly possible, to be able to quickly respond and recover , to prove respond and recover, to prove ourselves, resolve when we're on tv online, on disney plus radio and on tune to in this is gb news. time now for free speech nafion news. time now for free speech nation . nation. protesters at the elect women speak event in new zealand turned violent. a is hounded on social for offensive jokes told many years ago and baristas say they won't prosecute climate activists even if they break the law. this is free speech nation . and welcome to free speech

nafion . and welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. this is a show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics and of course, we're going to keep you updated on latest of our good on the latest antics of our good friends, the culture warriors. and they've kindly and as usual, they've kindly ensured well stocked ensured we are very well stocked with coming up on the with material. coming up on the show tonight, we'll be discussing the decision made by over 100 legal professionals not to themselves in to involve themselves in prosecuting climate activists. baroness claire fox will be here to tell us why she was uninvited from a university debating society because she liked a ricky gervais joke. we're going to be talking to the protesters and we will be talking about the protesters who turned at an eventin protesters who turned at an event in new zealand organised by women's rights campaigner kelly jake jean and myself and a wonderful panel will be answering questions from our beautiful studio audience. all that and much more tonight on free speech nation. and my studio this evening are studio guests this evening are the diane spencer and the comedians diane spencer and leo kearse . welcome our thanks leo kearse. welcome our thanks for coming. you've been you've been making fudge this week. i love making fashion. it's easter

so i'm putting all the little mini eggs, the little treats and have you making those like have you tried making those like rice nests with the mini rice krispie nests with the mini eggsinit rice krispie nests with the mini eggs in it .7 i can't don't do eggs in it.7 i can't i don't do anything this , but i know anything like this, but i know i'm ten matches in ten years. i'm ten matches in ten years. i'm not domestic level, but if i like , like pack and fudge. like, like pack and fudge. interesting all right. let's move on swiftly . let's be early move on swiftly. let's be early in the show for that. they were going to get some questions from the audience. our first question is from julie. where's julie? hi, julie. hello. hi is the party over for boris johnson? yeah, a former prime minister. bofis yeah, a former prime minister. boris johnson, of course. he's scrapping for his political life. this is the fallout from party continues to go he party go to continues to go he was wednesday by a was grilled on wednesday by a committee conservative committee of conservative and opposition this is all opposition mps and this is all about those, you know, these gatherings that place in gatherings that took place in downing thought downing street. i thought we'd all about that. all forgotten about that. leo but this but apparently no. yeah, this feels you know how they're feels like, you know how they're going donald trump going after donald trump in america anything, know, america with anything, you know, any minor parking violation. it's they're it's like, no, boris. they're still he's number still i mean, he's number one. he's already he's not he's already gone. he's not prime minister anymore. don't prime minister anymore. i don't think these think anybody's told these people persecuting

people who are still persecuting him. know , he's not. him. but, you know, he's not. yeah, he didn't know a lot yeah, but he didn't know a lot of people by, by having these parties in downing when parties in downing street when everyone to observe the everyone else had to observe the rules was rules that he said he was working, he only had to set those rules. the british public are a of cry—babies who are a bunch of cry—babies who need government wait need the government to wait the bum they needed to bum for them, so they needed to be down feel safe . be locked down to feel safe. yes, i'm sorry to say he didn't want to set those rules and it's ridiculous that, you know, somebody who went into work and had to in the office, you had to be in the office, you know, for real, instead of doing it over zoom or sitting at home on furlough and then, you know, gets in trouble for suddenly, you know, having a cake or having a small colada while having a small pina colada while i work. i having a small pina colada while iwork. i shouldn't having a small pina colada while i work. i shouldn't be having cake. should they know. they should know. and i disagree with everything. you just said. boris johnson lying liar who lies johnson is a lying liar who lies and should be dragged through the streets and he should be pelted with photos of people having to say goodbye to their loved ones through glass while he's drinking pop,

loved ones through glass while he's drinking pop , we're loved ones through glass while he's drinking pop, we're going to have a dream reaction tonight from this party. anybody who followed the covid rules is the sort of person so usb drive before pulling out the side of the computer, the sort of person, the sort of person who pays for carrier bags at the checkout, you know, i mean, you do it to usp, otherwise you will corrupt the you do that corrupt the disc. you do that for years. i've never for 40 years. i've never corrupted file. honestly, corrupted a file. yet honestly, we're getting off topic here a little bit, but what i would say is at least boris johnson's is that at least boris johnson's made effort week. he's made an effort this week. he's combed he looks combed his hair. he looks really quite sharp. he doesn't normally bother. he's taking it bother. so he's taking it seriously. athletic. he seriously. is athletic. he is there he is rewriting there and he is rewriting history mind, saying, history in his own mind, saying, oh , well, if i did lie, whoops, oh, well, if i did lie, whoops, no, this is ridiculous . well, no, this is ridiculous. well, we're not going to resolve this if the committee can't. okay. let's move on to another question. one's from helen. question. this one's from helen. helen. hello all helen. hi, helen. hello um, all my carla angelo statues specifically . i'm thinking of specifically. i'm thinking of the statue of david in florence . are they? graphic. so i couldn't believe this story . i couldn't believe this story. i read this this week. so there's

a principal at the florida school has had to resign because a parent claimed that the sixth grade students were being well, they claimed they were being shown images, but the image they were being shown was michelangelo's statue of david. and it was shown during a renaissance art lesson . diane, renaissance art lesson. diane, this is this is not. it's one of the most important works of art even the most important works of art ever. it's an absolutely incredible work of art. and i'm surprised that they that this is. i get it. he's naked. but surely part of the artwork is the context, is the fact that dave could beat goliath and we see him naked and vulnerable. and yet he took down a giant. he took down a giant while he was naked without without his, you know, embarrassment and difficulty to do so. the battle also , i mean, i guess it brings also, i mean, i guess it brings up that whole argument of what is art, what. because you watch like a nicki minaj pop video and i'm sorry, that's in my book,

but me think about anaconda. i have. yeah. yeah. so you all so never denies your time . no. it's never denies your time. no. it's cool that people on. no, he's not. yes, he also quite like michelangelo said, he was gay as well. i do you think i would show a picture of michelangelo? i think, but i think we all know what it looks like, you know. well doesn't look like. no i don't have anybody seen, but michelangelo, david is. is michelangelo, look, david is. is much . and is he ? i much too small. and is he? i don't quite know. it's a very big statue. it's much. yeah the part that you could be a fan of any you talk and it's not going to an orifice very quickly so is nearly it's definitely yes nearly it's definitely not. yes but this was interesting interesting this is it's a simpsons plotline. so the simpsons plotline. so the simpsons seems be predicting everything, right? yeah yes. yes. so they they suggested. well, wait a minute, by the way, is this coming from the right or it's coming from the republicans, although. yeah. so in florida, where ron desantis is, you clamp down on is, you know, clamp down on sexualised teaching in schools.

yes. to be fair to this yes. and to be fair to this decision is about the it's more about the sort of just the administration. so they're supposed to a letter that says we're going to be showing your your child this statue, by the way, it's got a small marble penis . so they didn't send out penis. so they didn't send out that letter. they don't need to. it's a work of renaissance art. you know, you don't need to explain in a way. and they do because because in florida they've got these rules and every year they send the letter andifs every year they send the letter and it's always fun. this is my problem with it. i think this is happening on both the left and the right. okay, because i get that some people on the right are by graphic are upset by sexually graphic material, is getting into material, which is getting into schools, is now i get that schools, which is now i get that you down on that, you want to come down on that, but they too far and but then they go too far and say, we've to ban anything and statues, important statues, you know, important works of art like this, like is this is coming from the right. so that the left being so we say that the left being very sensorial the moment. very sensorial at the moment. i think the right doing it too and they doing as well. and it's they are doing as well. and it's a of a wild west education

a bit of a wild west education because sort of the because at moment sort of the culture has pushed its way culture war has pushed its way into education schools into education and into schools both across the pond, both here and across the pond, probably worldwide, to be honest with and people are with you. and so people are still of like finding what still sort of like finding what is acceptable. right is acceptable. but you're right at does it stop being at what point does it stop being art and stop well, art and stop being? well, i think the point when it's exploitative when you know, exploitative when it's you know, i we all i mean, i think we all instinctively where you instinctively know where you have to open anonymous have to open an anonymous browser yeah i mean browser and tab. yeah i mean let's it michelangelo's is let's face it michelangelo's is not titillate. no. and it wasn't designed to be titillating. i mean, is the mean, i think that is the obvious difference isn't it. but you know, to me, i'm you know, maybe this to me, i'm not critic anyway. we're not an art critic anyway. we're going to move on, actually. so i think that that camille paglia, the paglia, the commentator, camille paglia, did michelangelo was did claim that michelangelo was a she actually did a pornographer she actually did make who make that argument. so who knows? question knows? anyway, our next question is hi hi, is from. hi, catherine. hi hi, andrew. comedy inspired andrew. should comedy inspired platforms for using abhorrent language ? so this is language? so this is interesting. alfie brown, he's a comic on the circuit, a very established comic, very, very funny. he's apologised because at a clip an old clip i think it's like seven years, seven or

eight years old where he's doing set in a comedy club and he the n—word on numerous occasions and that's been sort of pulled out because he got into some spat on twitter over jeremy an twitter over jeremy corbyn, an anti—semite ism, and then those were supporting jeremy corbyn basically went through everything that he'd ever said or done and found this clip. and thing about this, leo, is obviously the word is an offensive term. no one is going to that. but in the context to deny that. but in the context of routine, he's of a stand—up routine, he's doing something bit more doing something a bit more interesting. racist, interesting. he's being racist, is be absolutely. is he? let's be absolutely. well, him and stuart lee well, yeah. him and stuart lee and louis, they've all used the n—word on stage. lenny bruce as well . they've used this word to well. they've used this word to make some know political point. they're obviously isn't intended to be to be racist. but i think he's he's wrong to use this word because it doesn't belong to him. it belongs to the most marginal, oppressed community, the today, which is the world today, which is racists to have to racists. and to actually have to culturally appropriate that word from real racists when he wasn't even doing a racist joke. that's very offence, for goodness sake. dionne i think that when you

write a stand—up routine , you write a stand—up routine, you have to make artistic choices. we all make choices . what is we all make choices. what is interesting here, alfie made the choice to use word in full. he then argued over why he should have used that word when he was confronted by a couple of people on a podcast. like a few years later. is that right? i didn't know about. yeah, yeah, yeah. so this original clip was this this the original clip was 2015, believe three years 2015, i believe three years later, a podcast. two women sort of to him, them of said to him, one of them said, i find it offensive as a black woman, it black woman, i find it offensive. and other woman offensive. and the other woman said, i can kind of see said, well, i can kind of see what you're trying to do. but did you really need use that did you really need to use that word the problems? it word for the problems? isn't it the that stand often the case that in stand often comedians certainly specific comedians and certainly specific type of comedian will want to push boundaries and maybe push the boundaries and maybe tease of tease the limits of respectability sensitivity, tease the limits of respsometimes sensitivity, tease the limits of resp sometimes comediansty, and sometimes comedians will misjudge. have misjudge. but shouldn't we have that get it wrong? that freedom to get it wrong? because context , a that freedom to get it wrong? because context, a stand—up because the context, a stand—up comedy not literal comedy routine, it's not literal . no comedian literally just . no comedian is literally just expressing opinions on expressing their opinions on stage. the that you stage. no. and the ones that you can that they need seek can tell that they need to seek therapy. so the question

therapy. yeah. so the question was, should be d platform for using abhorrent language. i would say actually no , because would say actually no, because there's enough people in a comedy club who will make an instant judgement you and let you know your joke is. i mean you know yourjoke is. i mean you know yourjoke is. i mean you know yourjoke is. i mean you know you've got away with murder on. yeah well you getting dragged through the mud some. it's not fair. i don't know what i've been dragged through the mud have been cancelled from. yeah it's been cancelled this year so it was. you are asking for out. yeah. the trouble is when i say stuff because i don't sound as well read and portia's alfie people assume that i am actually a racist but i mean comedy should be a sacred space. i understand we need we need safe spaces for, you know, little snowflakes who can can't deal with the real world, but we also need unsafe spaces , and also need unsafe spaces, and comedy's going to be the sacred space where you're free to transgress and cross the line, because that's that's how we find what's what's funny. and like diane says, the audience let pretty quickly if

let you know pretty quickly if something and just something isn't funny and just went said went on stage and just said racist things. yeah, people are going laugh yes. going to laugh at that. yes. because funny. because racism isn't funny. yeah, so it does yeah, absolutely. so it does seem that they're going seem very odd that they're going after comedian get after a comedian i often get confused this literal confused by this literal mindedness. can't people mindedness. why why can't people understand? a joke is not literal. like literal. you know, like the chicken. chicken chicken. there was no chicken who the road. yeah road who crossed the road. yeah road doesn't exist. you don't have to worry whether it free worry about whether it was free range it was range or not, whether it was abused. it's not real chicken. yeah, absolutely. absolutely. i mean, people don't to mean, people don't seem to understand were understand that comedians were trying of trying to make some sort of point. the thread point. we're taking the thread of stretching twisting of logic stretching and twisting it you we can see if it it until you we can see if it breaks or not. sometimes comedians are joking. yeah and on note, let's move on to on that note, let's move on to another very leo another question very point. leo thought that next question is from is jackie ? hi, from jackie. why is jackie? hi, jackie. good is it jackie. good evening. good is it time, wolf was made illegal? i was so interested to read about this . suella braverman has. this. suella braverman has. she's planning this new street harassment law, which would lead to men basically being prosecuted if they wolf whistle or make of sexual remarks to

women . and this is this is women. and this is this is actually been rumbling on for quite a long time that in all sorts of debates i've heard arguments some feminists who this is well overdue that whistling is a form of harassment. i've heard other say this is patronising this is effectively saying that women can't handle awkward social situations themselves . diane, situations themselves. diane, what i mean you are the woman i believe that's why i'm here. so you are you are representing the woman community. oh, god , no, i woman community. oh, god, no, i can't get involved. no so what's your view as an individual person? as an individual person? my person? as an individual person? my view is i noticed personally that there was a time is an intention. now what i find found interesting about this is suella braverman has said there needs to be a reasonable coolness test to be a reasonable coolness test to the wolf whistle . to the wolf to the wolf whistle. to the wolf whistle. so if you get prosecuted for wolf whistling, they're going to perform a reason to bonus. that's how she wrote it. yeah the bonus test. and you you need to determine

whether it a reasonable way to communicate to somebody that they look attractive today how do you how do you prove that what you mean by reasonable people. i know say say diane, if someone came up to me and said i find you really attractive. i mean, there are some women who would say that's a form of harassment. yes now what is and this is the issue because some people don't know where the line is, because always know is, because there's always know the who push it far. the people who push it too far. sure. but like one, you could take it from the extreme. why are you commenting on somebody else's appearance? a stranger , else's appearance? a stranger, but you don't even know, right? why just that person why not just leave that person to about their day, not to go about their day, not appreciate them silently? then again, have complimented all again, i have complimented all the said, oh my god, the women. i've said, oh my god, your like there, the your earrings. a like there, the lady. question? she's lady. what's the question? she's got trainers on. got incredible trainers on. i absolutely her, but i don't absolutely love her, but i don't mean to harass her. but in that context, because there's a because when comes from because when it comes from a man, male stranger, there's man, a male stranger, there's always that threat something always that threat of something else know, because else going on, you know, because also i have been i have been

sexually harassed on. the tube i've actually had a man sort of come up to me and rub against me, which is very different from a wolf mentality. so yeah. and i the problem is, well meet him whistling noise the i mean not what anybody can be prosecute oh maybe a squeak like but the possible very there isn't it you know it is unpleasant and it's good that there is framework so that if it harassment then it can be stopped. but because if you do pay people a compliment, it's well received , then the it's well received, then the framework won't be used. what the view that some feminists take that this is patronising that actually that women can handle themselves. i mean , maybe handle themselves. i mean, maybe that's little unfair to the that's a little unfair to the people are more vulnerable people are a bit more vulnerable is thing saying if you're is one thing saying if you're a strong confident person . strong and confident person. yeah but you should just get overit yeah but you should just get over it and with it. you over it and deal with it. you know , everybody like that know, everybody feels like that all can we have all the time. can we not have a framework just in case somebody is being harassed , they can

is being harassed, they can apply wolf whistle because apply the wolf whistle because sometimes also when you hit a certain age like you get you look nice and then suddenly you don't anymore. and now don't get told anymore. and now when comes up to me and when somebody comes up to me and says hello , darling, or says hello, darling, or something i mean, something like that, i mean, they husband , well, they just say, my husband, well, i'm trying to cook, but if somebody says i'm not like that , don't kill anybody. you know ? , don't kill anybody. you know? okay, leo, this is interesting. is it because it's a very difficult one, as diane it's very difficult to kind of judge i mean, i had a friend who is she thought someone was wolf whistling turned around whistling and she turned around and, strip off him, and, you know, to strip off him, he just a song. he he was just whistling a song. he was having nice day . that's was having a nice day. that's not very nice. yeah. i mean , not very nice. yeah. i mean, that's the difficulty of having ladies selection for what is a quite complex and nuanced social situation . but i've got to agree situation. but i've got to agree with diane i mean, this is we've got a huge problem in particularly in the with particularly in the uk with sexual harassment. male sexual harassment. a male aggression and intimidation of women. i mean, i probably should stop, but you know, we've got this. we've this problem. so we need to do something about and

it's but problem is it's it's coming. but problem is it's not it's not it's not a british problem. like people from problem. but like people from who uk are what else who come to the uk are what else is going italy. yeah, is going on here? italy. yeah, and of course there are and then of course there are some places where it's worse but you know, we don't you know, the taliban in iran, you know, the women . yeah, yeah. but that women. yeah, yeah. but that doesn't mean that , you know, we doesn't mean that, you know, we can say, well, we're better than the it's okay. well, the taliban it's okay. well, i think than the think we are better than the taliban. anyway, the taliban. anyway, after the break, free speech nation, break, on free speech nation, over legal professionals over 100 legal professionals have they will not have announced they will not prosecute eco prosecute activists from eco groups. so barrister sarah fillmore will be here to discuss this. that up please this. that is up next. please don't go away .

back to free speech nation. around 120 of britain's top legal professionals have signed a declaration of conscience stating they will not. eco

protesters brought before the courts. the lawyers also said they will not act on behalf of clients involved in oil and gas . critics say they are ignoring the principle whereby whereby lawyers must on any case that they are available for. so joining me now to discuss this is a family law barrister sarah fennimore . welcome to the show, fennimore. welcome to the show, sarah. thank you. so why shouldn't barristers pick and choose which jobs they take? because it's a fundamental cornerstone of our ethical obugafions cornerstone of our ethical obligations that we don't discriminate against people on the basis that we don't them. we think a unpleasant. think they're a bit unpleasant. well, we don't agree with the cause because we don't deny legal representation to people. you just how dangerous you can see just how dangerous that would be. somebody who's not popular , somebody who's not popular, somebody who's accused of doing a horrible thing find to thing, can't find anyone to represent them because everyone is their in is entitled to their day in court their defence. what court and their defence. what specifically kind breach specifically what kind of breach is for , a barrister to say is this for, a barrister to say no. a code of conduct. no. there's a code of conduct. yeah, there's a code of conduct. i this involves conduct rules

28, 29 and 30. rule 28 says you can't discriminate against somebody because you or other people interestingly find them repulsive. and rule 29 is the cab rank rule. if you have got the right competence , if you've the right competence, if you've got available time and if you're paid enough money, you must take on a case. now, i do quite agree, bizarrely, with mr. morton when he says that the cab rank rule isn't really the issue here, because of course, the rich fuel companies are going to be able to find representation of their choice. that's having the financial freedom . but where the financial freedom. but where it hugely is for lewis. like it is hugely is for lewis. like me , who are legally aided. me, who are legally aided. i family work the criminal bar i think have rightly been very angered by this because it's not merely saying barrass can pick choose who they represent . it's choose who they represent. it's saying barristers. then identified with who they represent . right. and we can't represent. right. and we can't possibly these people that say awful . so let's clarify that. awful. so let's clarify that. you mentioned more. you julian morgan, geronimo, is one of the major signatories of this

declaration . we actually do have declaration. we actually do have a statement from john hammond. this was what he said. he said the carbon rule bound up inseparably with the idea that the law is right and. it ends are worth upholding. but law is not always right. sometimes the law is ugly. sometimes it is wrong . we should not be forced wrong. we should not be forced to work for the laws wrongful ends by deliver new fossil fuel projects . we should not be projects. we should not be forced to prosecute brave friends whose conduct protesting against the destruction of the planet . the law wrongly planet. the law wrongly criminalised, necessary. planet. the law wrongly criminalised, necessary . so criminalised, is necessary. so what's wrong with gentleman's what's wrong with a gentleman's perspective there? he's absolutely not absolutely right that law is not always wonderful . there are always wonderful. there are sometimes very wicked and there's a moral obligation on all of us to think is the kind of law that i have to disobey because it's so abhorrent , of law that i have to disobey because it's so abhorrent, or is this the kind of law i will campaign to change while obeying it? would venture to suggest it? i would venture to suggest that in a secular western democracy you're not going to find of the first. there may well be a lot of the second. and i think what are more than the others are doing are relying on

the example of david perry casey. a lot of flak in casey. he got a lot of flak in 2021 for saying he was going to represent chinese government who were prosecuting pro—democracy protesters . now that arguably, protesters. now that arguably, you say, well, you can't not represent the chinese government just because people don't like them. that's discrimination. but it more nuanced than that it is more nuanced than that because arguably it could be a code of conduct breach to represent which was represent a government which was trying deny such trying to deny such a fundamental human right from its citizens. yes, but that's the distinction, isn't it, between a clear cut law, which is repulsive and this rather wide and nebulous. well, we just don't like the politics of the fossil fuel companies. i mean, that's a different question. is it because actually we're seeing more and more the politicisation of of the law legal of the of the law legal profession? tony a mum is a good example when. he runs, what is it, the good law project. mean it, the good law project. i mean that is a problem that in itself is a problem isn't when, when, when the isn't it. when, when, when the law becomes politicised. absolutely. it's the same reason why problem you why it's a problem if you won't represent individual because represent an individual because you think they're repulsive. i

mean, family law. i've mean, i'm a family law. i've represented. now is julian mawn saying that as a matter of conscience i should simply refuse represent these men? refuse to represent these men? and i do represent, i've got and if i do represent, i've got to the risk people to take the risk that people will say, oh, you're a bit pro, then are you, sarah? i mean, this is the absurd t i don't represent men and women who've done children, done horrible things, children, because their right to because i support their right to do horrible things children . do horrible things to children. i represent because i represent them because everybody has that right. that's a really difficult question, isn't it? because of course, even someone who is guilty of such abhorrent act needs the right to have a defence. you know, i ask everybody what, would you do if you were accused , a serious criminal offence? we know people who are innocent are accused serious criminal offences. we know a lot of them go to prison for a very long time . you would want a lawyer time. you would want a lawyer who around and say, who didn't turn around and say, well, not sure about representing because you're representing you because you're a bit dodgy and i want people to judge me. want a lawyer judge me. you'd want a lawyer who i am going to represent who said i am going to represent you best of my ability you to the best of my ability without and without favour.

without fear and without favour. and this declaration, without fear and without favour. athink, this declaration, without fear and without favour. athink, is this declaration, without fear and without favour. athink, is so this declaration, without fear and without favour. athink, is so dangerous.aration, without fear and without favour. athink, is so dangerous. you on, i think, is so dangerous. you could it as empty, could just dismiss it as empty, preening, posturing because preening, posturing, because none signatories of none of the signatories of declaration, could get declaration, i think, could get anywhere near a prosecution brief. julian moon is a tax specialist. one of the signatories of this declaration has disbarred for leaking a supreme court judgement. that sounds like posturing. then none of none of these people are going get near a criminal court. so you might say, well, why are you worried , sarah? what's all you worried, sarah? what's all the fuss about? and reason the fuss about? and the reason i'm worried what we've just i'm worried is what we've just been this, been talking about. this, by extension, must, extension, saying lawyers must, according to their conscience , according to their conscience, decide who they represent and those of us who will still represent people must then accept by association. well, because if they make a judgement, they're effectively bypassing due process themselves. they're saying, i've decided you're guilty or innocence. is but this innocence. it is that. but this thing by association thing about guilt by association i is absolutely key i think is absolutely key because and that is up because more and more that is up whenever the free whenever i defend the free speech rights of someone who says horrible, says something horrible, i'm that therefore endorse that i must therefore endorse the they've the horrible things they've

said. a broader problem said. this is a broader problem in society now. it's getting ugly, really dangerous. and i know going to talk later know you are going to talk later about happened to kelly in about what happened to kelly in auckland and that i think a fantastic example of just how dangerous this is. we should clarify . kelly j. king, women's clarify. kelly j. king, women's rights campaigner has rights campaigner. she has this let women event auckland, let women speak event auckland, new zealand the protest is a mass around her. we can see some images there. it's absolutely terrifying . there are no police terrifying. there are no police andifs terrifying. there are no police and it's almost as though the police have absented themselves from the situation . they've met from the situation. they've met this woman and it's very vulnerable. position is lucky that someone wasn't killed or seriously injured. you know, it's very lucky. seen it's very lucky. i've seen footage of a i understand , 70 footage of a i understand, 70 year old woman being punched repeatedly face. and repeatedly in the face. and you've me you can't show you've told me you can't show that the that footage before the watershed because it's too disturbing now . we've also disturbing right now. we've also got the new zealand's deputy prime on prime minister going on television saying that kelly j. keane abhorrent and keane is abhorrent and ridiculous. now actually, we've got that clip. i think if we can have a look at that clip, because think is absolutely because think that is absolutely key. carmel cipollone,

key. this is carmel cipollone, the prime of new the deputy prime minister of new my the deputy prime minister of new my . that woman interviews my mind. that woman interviews abhorrent and in some ways quite ridiculous . abhorrent and in some ways quite ridiculous. but i guess personal approach is just to go like this deputy prime minister of new york. and what do we do when major political figures are making those kinds of judgements about people who to about people who want to converse asian have converse asian and have a different viewpoint ? that is the different viewpoint? that is the politicisation the world. i politicisation of the world. i know it's politics, but it's it means it has impact on means that it has an impact on whether law is correctly whether the law is correctly enforced. you see what enforced. well, you see what happened. think j. king happened. i think kelly j. king was lucky to escape with her life, least without being life, or at least without being seriously we today seriously hurt. we seem today at reform park, reform history in hyde park, a group of women who believe sex is real. it matters effectively kettled by the by protesters and the police walking away because this is what the problem with joe lieberman in his declaration is. he's a tentacle on this octopus , which is saying if you octopus, which is saying if you don't toe the line and believe what we believe , then you are

what we believe, then you are a non—person . kelly was described non—person. kelly was described variously as a monster, a thing by people tweeting about one of the politicians charges that thing. yeah and we know how the rwandan massacre started . people rwandan massacre started. people were encouraged to call their opponents cockroaches on the local radio . this is how every local radio. this is how every demonisation and attack on individuals starts by them and more doesn't just reserve his ire for the fossil fuels. i'm sure lots of people would go well, they are horrible companies. yeah. good on you, juuen. companies. yeah. good on you, julien . remember, this is also julien. remember, this is also the man called fair cop, an the man who called fair cop, an organisation of which i am an identifiable public member akin to a terrorist organisation that should be proscribed now. i made a formal complaint about that to the boss standards board because i said that is inflammatory, thatis i said that is inflammatory, that is putting me at risk of harm. they interested. harm. yes, they interested. maude also referred to maude is also referred to a serving judge as transphobe, adjacent because he didn't like what she was saying . so he what she was saying. so he doesn't just focus on climate

change and fossil fuels. he's part of that much wider movement that says if do not think as we think , then you are going to be think, then you are going to be denied the protection of the law. the police and politicians can talk about you in the language we've just heard. so we don't have much time. but i know that you've said on twitter that you the you actually feel that the signatories be signatories here ought to be debarred in fact, do you stand by that? instinctive by that? my first instinctive reaction, i think, when you asked me about it, was to say, despite and i thought despite the lot and i thought about it and i reflected i thought it too harsh. thought it was not too harsh. no, you cannot be a preening posturing code of posturing activist. the code of conduct pick and mix. conduct is not pick and mix. you've were going you've declared you were going to the cornerstones to slap one of the cornerstones of our ethical obligations. to slap one of the cornerstones of our ethical obligations . then of our ethical obligations. then you can't be a barrister. so i say disbarred a lot. sarah for them. thank you. representing and after the break, face the nation. baroness claire fox was disinvited from a university debate because she liked a ricky gervais joke. claire will, be joining us and so will one of the events organisers. see you in a few minutes.

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welcome back to free speech nation. later in the show i'm going to be turning agony uncle with the help of my wonderful panel with the help of my wonderful panel, diane spencer and leo kearse, i'm going to help you deal your unfiltered deal with your unfiltered dilemmas. you've got any dilemmas. if you've got any problems we all problems at all, i mean, we all do. so just us at do. we. so just email us at gbviews@gbnews.uk. we will answer your questions live on air. royal holloway university of london disinvited. baroness claire fox from a university debating society because she had expressed approval of a joke made by ricky gervais. fox had been due to speak to students the importance of discussion but the importance of discussion but the students union raised concerns and eventually her was called off. now i'm joined in studio by omar novak, one of the students who actually invited fox. she'll be with us, too, in

a moment. omar. welcome to the show. so you're a student at royal holloway. you decided to invite baroness claire fox. what was the idea behind the event? so the why? we wanted to invite baroness fox is because baroness fox is your architect or perfect type of person. you want, the business society director of academy of ideas appear at the house of lords journalists for just before osborne . yes. so just before osborne. yes. so this was something that i feel as a committee member, the students will at claire fox. this is something i want to be when i'm older and then claire fox will show them how to be that person . and plus, as it was that person. and plus, as it was about the idea debates and why debate important in society debate is important in society in today's world. i feel with it being a real abuse of our students at royal holloway so idea that i discussion idea then that i discussion about the importance of debate is then shut down. i mean the irony of this moment of escape anyone who was it who wanted to shut this down and what happened . so after we announce that claire fox will be speaking, our

university the end of february , university the end of february, the student union, let us that there were a couple of people offended by claire fox his views on the transition and the community. so this included staff like the retweets of the ricky gervais show her views on trans in sports. so just because ricky gervais said made a joke which had a theme of transgenderism and she had retweeted the joke , but it was retweeted the joke, but it was a joke because it was in a stand up show. people were laughing in the clip. so we know was a joke. and that offended people. but also her view that the women should have single sex sports, that kind thing. that's that kind of thing. yeah, that's right. offended by right. and they were offended by this. so offended. and how this. so offended. and then how did about trying to get did they go about trying to get her so like like her cancelled? so like he like the people read the the people have read the articles. if they have the articles. if they have read the articles. if they have read the articles seen the articles and you have seen the emails, student union kept emails, the student union kept on idea that on eviscerating this idea that inviting fox is as an inviting claire fox is as an advocate of towards the trans community, whatever that means . community, whatever that means. that's claire woods incites hate towards the people. she'll be a

trouble for those people. why did the university capitulate to them and not go along with it? presumably you wanted keep it and it go ahead . so the reason and it go ahead. so the reason why the university decides it's with the student union. that's the question. why what you is mainly because the student union has this more institutional backing it which as a debate to society we don't really have that much power and the reason why the cancelled was because of that because other members in the other committee thought that it would have been that if we were two side of the scene. not sad of the student union, but at least cancel for their least just cancel it for their sake. we wouldn't be sake. then we wouldn't be in trouble because or trouble because our funding or that funding is dependent on the student union. things like going onto competitions is dependent onto competitions is dependent on union. so if you on the student union. so if you were to agree, if student union were to agree, if student union we safe from that we will be safe from that backlash. i understand. okay well, let's bring in baroness claire now, who's joining us claire fox now, who's joining us via link , if we can have via video link, if we can have her. hello claire fox. hello. i'm so apparently , according to i'm so apparently, according to your detractors you're an advocate of hate , is that right

advocate of hate, is that right 7 advocate of hate, is that right ? absolutely not. and it's so interesting having the discussion. is this described by alma? i'm not entirely sure the students going to hear about my career and wanting to be like me would be the end result because i would have been more than happy to have with people who never want to grow up to be like me. i'm quite controversial in my views on the law and a range of issues , not least about free of issues, not least about free speech. no no books, but of course i don't. you do. i hate ? course i don't. you do. i hate? i'm for women . i'm course i don't. you do. i hate? i'm for women. i'm for course i don't. you do. i hate? i'm for women . i'm for women's i'm for women. i'm for women's rights . and i object to rights. and i object to absolutely the way that trans ideology , not necessarily trans ideology, not necessarily trans people, i hasten add trans ideology supports us insist that women's rights and women's sex rights should be undermined in order to accommodate their demands anyway. the whole point was that all that they apparent she found is proof and evidence

in my hate was one retweet where i congrats related ricky gervais forced during that ideology and one minute i'm awake she goes by the way is a very funny clip. were you particularly surprised that it was a joke that got you in trouble here? i mean the idea that a scouring through your twitter to twitter history to find absolutely anything the absolutely anything that was the best could do. but only best they could do. but not only that that be that but that would be effective. and from the university's perspective and just vacation actually just vacation for actually cancelling think cancelling the event. well think that the thing that's really harrowing for the students listen this is not no skin of my nose that i don't have to go and do a talk at a university. i want to make it clear i'm not blaming the victim here, but this is a very serious matter in relation to student societies having, the freedom and the autonomy invite who want autonomy to invite who they want to debate in society. by to debate in society. and by simply the student union initially getting a bit of a hard time investigating whether i a safeguarding risk , i was a safeguarding risk, checked me out . i kind of passed checked me out. i kind of passed somehow. some tests that they did . and unbeknown, this was all

did. and unbeknown, this was all happening behind the scenes months ago. and then when they advertise, some societies caused advertise, some societies caused a fuss . and i suppose you could a fuss. and i suppose you could say i wasn't surprised, but say that i wasn't surprised, but i think that when i heard of the kind of bullying and intimidation and the real arming that went on the society, i that went on to the society, i realised that this was an important issue because people don't know what cancel culture isn't of big headline isn't a kind of big headline thing. we've you know, let's be honest, when you about what's happened to posy parker which we've just had all the women today who out protesting for women's rights and they're harassed and bullied and i mean facing physical violence may being cancelled might seem nothing but from the point of view of academic freedom and a university the idea that these young people interested in debate wanting to hear a diverse set of the opposite of snowflakes , interested, snowflakes, interested, inquisitive have and that choice to invite to speak up. then let to invite to speak up. then let to be threatened. they were told

their reputation would be ruined, that the society these name would be mud, they'd be inviting somebody who's a troublemaker. and of course, they immediately think, got all my help . life brewing just to my help. life brewing just to have platform and space. and i don't blame them. why would you so i think it's is the behind the scenes subtle stuff and intimidation of students . i intimidation of students. i wanted to make a fuss about and if i can finally say andrew , you if i can finally say andrew, you yourself have been involved in speaking i think, and do again to speak at something called living freedom, which is it's got to the point now where we have to organise some colleagues of mine and i know one of the speakers is organising events where students can go along and talk about the importance of people like john locke. the letter on toleration, people from history like j.s. mill, and then lessons of why free speech is important . and those extra is important. and those extra curriculum seminars been put on in universities because sadly we can't rely for on the management

all of the senior academics at the royal holloway to actually stand up for free speech or instruct or help students understand the importance of academic freedom . claire fox , academic freedom. claire fox, thank you so much for joining us. before we go, i just want to quickly bring in omar again on point that baroness fox is making. from a student's perspective, i mean, she very rightly happened here rightly says what happened here with young people with a lot of young people were depnved with a lot of young people were deprived opportunity deprived of the opportunity to hear had to say. hear what claire fox had to say. is the case that we are is it the case that we are deaung is it the case that we are dealing with a generation who are completely of different viewpoints, is it just small viewpoints, or is it just small minority who too much minority who have too much clout? definitely think as a clout? i definitely think as a small minority too small minority that have too much one thing i've much clout. one thing that i've seen all this has hit seen after all of this has hit the is that the solid the media is that the solid majority has started to up. majority has started to rise up. claire , talk about this claire fox can, talk about this and i've seen this once we announced cancellation. and i've seen this once we announced cancellation . claire announced a cancellation. claire so once this has hit the media, there's been many people, many students at royal holloway who have that is something have said that this is something that to his and we are that we wanted to his and we are very troubled that talk very troubled that this talk has been because the been cancelled because the

strong arming of the student union, institution that is union, the institution that is supposed to free thinking supposed to allow free thinking , is supposed to allow different fees. one of the reasons why i go into higher education is so that i go into higher education is so thati can go into higher education is so that i can have views that might offend as the politics, offend me as to the politics, philosophy i philosophy and economics. and i come across texts that come across many texts that i don't but at the end of don't like, but at the end of the day, we're all and the day, we're all ignorant and the day, we're all ignorant and the way get smart is the only way to get smart is here in fees that we may not agree with. and that's you agree with. and that's how you become smart. and that is how you the full advantages of you take the full advantages of things it things like university. it deeply that there deeply troubles me that there people university who people in the university who do not with that. so this is not agree with that. so this is this is of the reason why i this is one of the reason why i feel like it's very important that we do fight so that the silent the majority can silent the silent majority can up minority who are up against the minority who are raising voice that raising their voice scream that you you cannot hear you can't you cannot hear different opinions because those opinions might offend some people . very well said. omar. people. very well said. omar. omar lubeck , thank you so much omar lubeck, thank you so much for joining me. and to baroness forjoining me. and to baroness claire fox very much . now claire fox very much. now a spokesman for royal has issued a

statement saying, we are committed to the principles of academic freedom and free speech and aim to create an inclusive , and aim to create an inclusive, supportive environment for all students and staff. the royal holloway students union and its societies work a separate entity from the university and events in line with our own processes procedures. as a university , we procedures. as a university, we will continue to work closely with the students union in relation to the legal and regulatory responsibilities for events . after the break on free events. after the break on free speech nation, professor matthew goodwin is here to discuss his new book, values voice and virtue the new british politics second amendment .

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation . it's been a hugely nation. it's been a hugely turbulent few years in the world of uk politics. we've got brexit, numerous elections , brexit, numerous elections, almost as many different prime ministers professor of politics matthew goodwin has long tried

to make sense of . it and matthew goodwin has long tried to make sense of. it and his latest book is called values, voice and virtue the new british politics. and matthew joins me now. good evening. good evening. thank you for sending us the book as well . you wanted to book as well. you wanted to explain to us what is the key thesis, your new book? yeah. so basically had ten years of basically we've had ten years of political rise of political we've had the rise of populism brexit. boris johnson, the fall of red wall, this the fall of the red wall, this realignment our politics. all realignment of our politics. all i'm saying is what on earth caused all that? and the caused all of that? and the argument essentially is that we have elite in britain, not have a new elite in britain, not just in politics, but across much the media creative much of the media creative industries , institutions which industries, institutions which longer reflects the values of the of the wider country. no longer really gives lots of voters a feeling that they have a voice in the institutions, and it's embracing this very toxic identity politics, which i don't think actually is to bring think actually is going to bring people back together. i think it's going to push apart. and it's going to push us apart. and so do now feel so many people do now feel politically homeless. they don't know they're going vote know who they're going to vote for where is this? for next time. where is this? come mean, always

come i mean, it didn't always used to be the did it? as you say, is a relatively recent say, this is a relatively recent development. yeah, well, actually, of actually, about 60% of people out feel neither left out there feel that neither left nor really reflect their nor right really reflect their values. one of the reasons i values. and one of the reasons i wanted to write the book was partly to say, actually you partly to say, actually i you know, wanted to sort of know, i wanted to sort of represent those and represent some of those and opinions try and put opinions and just try and put across different view about across a different view about why we're here. i think, you why we're here. and i think, you know, the things know, one of the things that's happened over the last 20 happened is over the last 20 years, a lot of these cultural issues, identity issues, immigration and identity immigration and gender identity have more important have become much more important in whereas perhaps the in politics, whereas perhaps the older used to be much more older days used to be much more about what's about economics. and what's happened this elite that's happened is this elite that's risen represent risen to sort of represent institutions just thinks very , institutions just thinks very, very differently from most voters on these issues. they've really gone all in this really gone all in on this radical, progressive worldview, which really isn't shared by the vast majority people out there. and let's take the example of brexit. you know, 70% of labour constituencies voted to leave, and yet you had a labour party that decided to run on a where they said, we'll make you vote again because you probably got it wrong. the public got

it wrong. think the public got to parliament effectively to watch parliament effectively trying to undo the largest democratic mandate british democratic mandate in british history? it's history? this doesn't it's almost they're in almost like they're living in this don't get this bubble and they don't get that. people can see what they're well also on they're up to. i as well also on brexit, forget 3% of brexit, don't forget 3% of labour campaigned labour mp is actually campaigned leave 150 labour held leave whereas 150 labour held seats voted to leave. think seats voted to leave. i think that i there is a bubble that i think there is a bubble element on but element going on here, but i think what we've seen is think also what we've seen is essentially the political and the media class double down on themselves . all the themselves. all of the institutions really are now disproportionately dominated by people who tended to go the people who tended to go to the same universities. but also in these questions these cultural questions tend to hold same of values . so hold the same sets of values. so if look at things you if you look at things like you know told about you know how we're told about you know, the rise of gender identity , or we're told that, identity, or we're told that, you know, history is you know, british history is primarily negative . or primarily bad, it's negative. or if you look at the discussion , if you look at the discussion, small boats that actually we should just be relaxed should just be more relaxed about this. shouldn't try and about this. we shouldn't try and control our national borders. most people don't that most people don't think that way. are very way. most people are very concerned about issues . concerned about these issues. they governments to they want their governments to solve them. think this

solve them. and i think this increase singly radical class thatis increase singly radical class that is dominating the institutions is actually losing touch with lot of people out there in the country. and to be honest , i there in the country. and to be honest, i mean, i'm the reason i write this book as well as i'm concerned, because i think if you look at the last ten years, you look at the last ten years, you know, we don't want to become i don't think we don't want the tribalism. we don't want the tribalism. we don't want nation. want the polarised nation. but if manage to if we don't actually manage to close these divides is where we're to end up. we're we're going to end up. we're going up in a much more going to end up in a much more tribal place. it's part of the problem that to problem that there isn't that to distinguish between the conservatives and labour insofar as clearly bought as labour clearly have bought into identity and well into this very identity and well view. but a lot the radical view. but a lot of the radical cultural shifts over the past 12 years happened years have actually happened under conservatives. under under the conservatives. so really you can't vote for anyone would get us out that anyone who would get us out that well. is a there is a new well. there is a there is a new consensus in british politics which shared and which is shared by the left and the right. mean , both the right. i mean, both basically be basically were instincts be opposed to brexit when stink to be opposed to lowering were in and an instinctively opposed to pushing back against this

radical progressivism in the institutions they view it as sort of cultural politics. i don't want to go near it and i think many voters really are looking at the parties and thinking, well, i don't share values anymore. you don't represent anymore. and i think therefore , unless we can find therefore, unless we can find a way of dealing that and giving people a sense that they are in the national conversation, they have a voice. you know, you look at bbc home page every day. at the bbc home page every day. i like this of world i mean, it's like this of world view of the 10% or the 15, and that's roughly radical progressives. they about 15% progressives. are they about 15% of country, but they of the country, but they dominate many of the institutions. and doesn't that lead trust for these lead in lack of trust for these major institutions what they call legitimation crisis ? so call a legitimation crisis? so that's seeing. that's what we're seeing. i mean, trust in mean, you're seeing trust in established decline established legacy media decline . seeing in .you're seeing trust in parliament and parties decline . parliament and parties decline. the big winner at the next election personally i think won't be the labour party. the big apathy. it will be big will be apathy. it will be lots people saying, look, i'm lots of people saying, look, i'm not at this not going to vote at this election . i tried to change the election. i tried to change the system through all of these things that we've through

things that we've gone through over the last years. it's still the same, still pro globalisation , pro migration, globalisation, pro migration, increasing the sort of intolerance of who hold different views and beliefs . different views and beliefs. people are looking at what's happening in schools and universities and this of imposition of this political dogma. and they can't see anybody who's going to speak up and do anything about it. so my fear is either just withdraw from the political system en mass or we end up going down other road of populism where somebody stands up says they somebody stands up and says they are to do something it and are going to do something it and none outcomes. none of those outcomes. personally i don't think a particularly good matter. particularly good well matter. your called values of your book is called values of voice virtue that's voice and virtue that's available now. thank you so much for joining me on. the show forjoining me on. the show could . sorry that is all for the could. sorry that is all for the first hour of free speech nation but we have an awful lot more to come after my break myself . and come after my break myself. and my two guests will be discussing what has been happening in new zealand to . kenny g. keen, the zealand to. kenny g. keen, the women's rights campaigner also known posy . women's rights campaigner also known posy. i'm going get known as posy. i'm going to get some questions from our

some more questions from our lovely audience . see you lovely studio audience. see you in a few minutes.

there's plenty still to come on free speech nation this week, including a discussion about posy parker's persecution in new zealand. more audience questions and we'll ask why the police are not being taught about free speech. but let's get a news update first from ray addison . update first from ray addison. thanks, andrew. good evening . thanks, andrew. good evening. the latest from the gb newsroom tensions have heightened between russia and ukraine with the country's state media saying a blast in the tula region was caused by a ukrainian drone with explosives . three people were explosives. three people were reportedly injured when they were struck by shrapnel . were struck by shrapnel. however, ukraine has not claimed

responsibility for the alleged attack . it follows pleas from attack. it follows pleas from the european union for russia to halt the stationing of nuclear weapons in belarus kyiv's foreign ministry has called the decision provocative and, is calling for a session of the un security council . england has security council. england has ukraine to nil in that group. security council. england has ukraine to nil in that group . c ukraine to nil in that group. c euro qualifiers match. both teams joined for a photograph before the game as players clutched a ukrainian flag with peace across it. uefa had given 1000 free tickets to ukraine and refugees and their british hosts to attend the game. first half goals from harry kane bukayo saka were enough seal the win. teams will face off again in september . offenders who commit september. offenders who commit anti—social behaviour will forced to clean up their communities as part of the prime minister's new immediate justice scheme. under the plans to be announced tomorrow local authorities will be given new powers to quickly and punish criminals. those who spray

graffiti or commit other vandalism will have to fix the damage within 48 hours of the penalties include . picking up penalties include. picking up litter, washing police cars or doing unpaid work in shops as well as part of the crackdown, the government also announced a ban on the sale of laughing gas. levelling up. secretary michael gove telling broadcasters nitrous oxide canisters are helping to fuel anti—social behaviour and turning public into drug taking . the us into drug taking. the us president has declared a state of emergency in mississippi after a tornado killed at least 26 people. the twister swept through the state and on into alabama , cutting a path of alabama, cutting a path of destruction hundred and 70 miles long. around 11,000 residents there are still without . they there are still without. they say there was no safe place to hide. secretary of homeland security alejandro says they need to be more prepared for disastrous weather. we see extreme weather events

increasing , extreme weather events increasing, only increasing in gravity in, severity and in frequency . and we have to build frequency. and we have to build our communities to be best prepared for them to prevent the devastation. to the extent possible, to be able to quickly respond and to prove ourselves resilient . we're on tv, online , resilient. we're on tv, online, radio and on tune in to this is gb news. now back to free speech nafion gb news. now back to free speech nation . nation. two days ago in auckland new zealand, kelly j. keane women's rights activist, was physically assaulted at her let women event. she had called it let women speak . she believes let women speak. she believes that women who have concerns about their sex based rights are often silenced and in an effort

to disprove her arguments. large groups of angry men turned up . groups of angry men turned up. stop her from speaking. here's an example of some of the protesters in action . i can't protesters in action. i can't think why women want men like this out of their spaces. clearly, they must be evil bigots is the only explanation. well, that was the conclusion of most of the australia and new zealand media. newshub a major new zealand tv channel decided it would smear the women speak event as an te trans. this is something by way, that both the guardian and the daily mail have also done this weekend, which is also done this weekend, which is a reminder that the culture war has nothing to do with left or right. that said, newshub took it defaming it a step further, defaming keene, also known as posy parker, as a white supremacist . parker, as a white supremacist. in other words, rather than in actual journalism , they actual journalism, they uncritically repeated the accusations of the most dishonest of queens critics. great job, guys. here's what they had to say. immigration new

zealand has decided to allow the controversial anti—trans campaigner known as posy parker into new zealand. the review took on safety grounds after her rally in melbourne attracted is now. it is true that there were at the women's peak rally in melbourne. but as the australian jewish council noted, these were thugs who saw an opportunity to huack thugs who saw an opportunity to hijack the event for their own pubuchy. hijack the event for their own publicity. in hijack the event for their own publicity . in fact, the were publicity. in fact, the were clashing with the socialist alliance , a supposedly alliance, a supposedly anti—fascist group who nonetheless seemed to be more concerned with shutting down a women's gathering than confronting the actual fascists. and because these opportunistic had gatecrashed the event , the had gatecrashed the event, the australian media conflate them with the women claiming that they were allies. because of course fascists are well known for their profound for women safeguarding . anyway, let's get safeguarding. anyway, let's get back to newshub their incredibly sophisticated journalism accusations direct threats to the prime minister. i'll tell

you what, chris. using a hand signal linked to white through premise tests, which we've chosen to blur, revoke my visa at your peril . what's kenny g. at your peril. what's kenny 6. kane has previously white supremacy and racism as having no place in a civilised society. so if she was lying about that and wanted to keep her evil views secret, why would she start making overt white power with one hand? none of this makes sense until you take away the blurring effect that newshub have put on the clip . newshub have put on the clip. newshub would like you to believe that this is the okay symbol which been co—opted by certain far right groups . but when you watch right groups. but when you watch the original footage, you can see she's just adjusting zip on her top . let me just tell you her top. let me just tell you this . revoke my visa at your this. revoke my visa at your peril . but of course, by peril. but of course, by blurring it out , newshub can blurring it out, newshub can make it look a lot more sinister. as the commentator and podcaster stephen knight pointed out on his latest substack. in

that same video , keane goes on that same video, keane goes on to defend the speech rights of maori women. as knight puts . maori women. as knight puts. that's odd flex for someone that's an odd flex for someone intending to signal to their white support . of white supremacist support. of course, is a common course, defamation is a common tactic. nowadays, people don't want engage discussion, so want to engage in discussion, so they lies instead. but if they make lies instead. but if you're going to lie at least make it vaguely plausible, newshub are openly misleading their viewers, presumably they think their viewers are too stupid to . know how use stupid to. know how to use a search engine. well, job done. the lies been spread. the the lies have been spread. the temperature been raised and temperature has been raised and this is the result. so this footage is from the women speak event in and there's also now footage online of an elderly female attendee being punched at full force in the

face by of the protesters. like all bullies, they pick on the weakest targets . the footage weakest targets. the footage itself is actually to disturb for us to show no police presence, just a baying , mostly presence, just a baying, mostly men pushing and screaming abuse at one woman. if the stewards hadnt at one woman. if the stewards hadn't been so courageous, keen have been killed and that of is where all of this is leading. we are continually hearing that there is bad behaviour on both sides of this debate . i'm sorry, sides of this debate. i'm sorry, this is just not sustain able any more. i've seen a few rights campaigners use abusive terms , campaigners use abusive terms, throwing insults and yes, behaving . but i've never seen behaving. but i've never seen women's rights campaigners sending death threats , rape sending death threats, rape threats or attempting to punch anyone who takes an opposing view . yet see this all the view. yet we see this all the time from trans activists , not time from trans activists, not trans people by way, most of whom want to get on with their lives in peace and extremely ill by these so—called allies who claim to represent them. who has never said anything transphobic in her life is nonetheless as a hateful bigot and inundated on a

daily basis with death threats. she has said she received so many that could paper the house with them . and this is the with them. and this is the point. it isn't just one or two bad apples. this kind behaviour is the norm in. this particular activist community. if you don't believe me, you can take a look at the website. terf is a slur. .com where you can see hundreds of screenshots of violent threats and imagery against women campaigning for their rights. i won't show the worst ones here. they fall to disturbing, but here are some of the milder examples. any trans allies pride london right now allies at pride london right now to eff up and? take out to step the eff up and? take out the trash. get their faces. make them afraid . debate never works. them afraid. debate never works. so if them up. if you're a tough, you can get effed with the business of the barbed wire baseball . stop up a turf today. baseball. stop up a turf today. to twist the knife. and then remove . these examples . on and remove. these examples. on and on.and remove. these examples. on and on. and and on. and you know who doesn't post? messages like

this. women and yet many of the people issuing these threats want us to believe that are women. it's hardly the most persuasive tactic. here's what one activist wrote after watching the violence in auckland . i got turned on today auckland. i got turned on today watching the fear in posy park as . she actually was fearing for as. she actually was fearing for her life. and you know who doesn't get sexually aroused by mob? women and most men as it happens. but definitely not women. and yet. so many mainstream commentators refused to condemn these activists. they think this is a fragile, marginalised group standing up for themselves. a group so marginalised that they have the support of all major corporations. public institutions are able call on the police to arrest those , the police to arrest those, refuse to use the language that they demand and are able to bully and physically assault women who gathering women who are gathering peacefully to express their views and the media and political class. cheer them on. this entirely backward and it this is entirely backward and it has to stop because . somebody is has to stop because. somebody is going seriously hurt. going to get seriously hurt. look this post from a couple look at this post from a couple of schapiro, of days ago. stephen schapiro,

an academic at wayne state university in detroit . so here university in detroit. so here is what i think about speech on campus. although i not advocate violating federal and state criminal codes. i think it is far more admirable to kill a racist homophobe or transphobic speaker than it is to shout them down. that's an actual professor working at an actual university . now there are many obvious objections . this firstly that objections. this firstly that murder is never justifiable objections. this firstly that murder is neverjustifiable . murder is never justifiable. secondly, it's probably not a great idea to be openly for murder on your facebook page. i mean, it's not a great endorsement for the very institution, is it? come to state university kids where you can taught by total sociopaths . can taught by total sociopaths. but what can taught by total sociopaths. but what shapiro can taught by total sociopaths. but what shapiro fails to take into account is that virtually everyone who is branded a racist homophobe or transphobe days is nothing of the kind . and in that nothing of the kind. and in that context , when these terms are so context, when these terms are so misused so often, surely it's a little to be claiming that murdering anyone so described is admirable , and the history books admirable, and the history books are full of this kind of thing.

people demonising certain groups as subhuman in order to justify appalling violence and atrocities . if you call someone atrocities. if you call someone atrocities. if you call someone a tough , they're no longer a a tough, they're no longer a human being . they're a cockroach human being. they're a cockroach and cockroach is can be crushed. we are dealing with an ideological movement which is largely composed of fantasists who see in every who monster anyone who doesn't think it's fair for women to compete with biological males in sport, or anyone who doesn't think male rapists ought to be accommodated in women's prisons or anyone who understands that sex is binary and that speaking, the truth still matters . in other words, still matters. in other words, the people these activists consider to be mortal enemies, these of , the imagination, these of, the imagination, comprise the overwhelming majority of the public . and majority of the public. and that's a lot of . and this is the that's a lot of. and this is the context in which eichmann has been smeared first by activists, then the mainstream press. we are told that women's rights is are told that women's rights is a trojan horse fascism. and this is was made explicit in this cartoon in the new zealand herald. here you can see katy

keene depicted as a large wooden horse surrounded by. i have to say, i don't think this cartoonist understands what a trojan horse is. i doubt very much the greeks would have made it into the of troy if it into the city of troy if they'd standing outside they'd been standing outside with horse. kind of defeats with the horse. kind of defeats the purpose. surely the trojan horse metaphor would work much better individuals do better for individuals who i do know claim to be compassionate and on side of history and on the right side of history but send threats of but routinely send threats of death and rape to anyone , death and rape to anyone, challenges their worldview . challenges their worldview. gender identity. ideology is often presented as sweet and with glitter and rainbow flags and bekind hashtags. with glitter and rainbow flags and bekind hashtags . but like and bekind hashtags. but like the trojan horse , there are the trojan horse, there are plenty of angry men inside waiting to commit carnage . so in waiting to commit carnage. so in this section of free speech nation, i want to discuss this with two fantastic guests. i have today the author ella whelan here the studio and down the line helen joyce, director

of advocacy at matters. welcome back. of advocacy at matters. welcome back . and i want to come to back. and i want to come to first. so we've all seen this footage, absolutely horrific footage, absolutely horrific footage in new zealand posey parker or kelly j. it's having this women speak event and protesters turn up. the police are absent . and it turns are absent. and it turns a violent. what is happening here? why is this becoming more common? well, i think i just think it's remarkable that you have politicians in new zealand very sort of seriously discussing banning kelly jane from entering because of the supposed dangers that she poses. and then to provide any kind of security, any kind of police presence for what is very clearly was very clearly from the start going be a violent they themselves says there's probably going to be violence at this event. yes. and so then there's a very clear decision being made there, which is that they kind of pretend danger is they kind of pretend danger is the care about. but the the one they care about. but the real danger the women real danger posed to the women that took part in that rally is

nothing to worry about. and you know, don't what you call know, i don't know what you call that a certain kind that other than a certain kind of kind of that women of a certain kind of that women who hold these kind of views don't matter. i mean, posy parker, kelly jenkins often that she's the wrong kind of and there's a real, i think uncomfortable question for a of people who are involved in this sort of gender critical discussions about the fact that she she has seen the rough end of this of this kind of campaign for a very long. yes, we've sort of limited solidarity. and you know, unless women like stick their neck out on the line quite , literally. i mean, you know, it's remark about reading the guardian saying, you know, they described what happened to her as she was doused in as though she was doused in tomato as it was as tomato soup. you as if it was as if it was that someone just pulled a friendly can over her. and as if this whole thing wasn't filmed and people can check themselves. yeah check it for themselves. yeah this scary, violent, this was a scary, violent, intimidating yeah. and, intimidating event. yeah. and, you i that it's you know, i think that the it's , you know, i think she's to be

commended for fact that she continues go out. she does know and there are lots that there's the reason this is so important it was because there a big debate to be had about how we respond to a kind of trans ideology. some think that ideology. some people think that , you know, posy park is in your face way of doing it is, i think probably in some circumstances at this point is probably the only way to do. some people take a different in a sort of different view in terms of we handle ideology. terms of how we handle ideology. but what there should be no argument about is that when women and organise a space women try and organise a space for to talk about, you for them to talk about, you know, literally being the know, literally being having the word, are raised in lots word, women are raised in lots of of public life and that of areas of public life and that you don't get decked. that's probably the bare minimum i would bring would have thought. let's bring in joyce on this very in helen joyce on this very question. helen thanks so much for joining us. i do want to ask forjoining us. i do want to ask you about that that question. there are a lot of the protesters that are the kinds of activists that activists who will say that words are violence that posy words are violence and that posy park very presence. there is a tantamount to violence. and of course, perhaps a means course, this is perhaps a means by which they can justify their

own authentically acts . own authentically violent acts. i think they think that they can their activism is super linguistic, funnily, although it's backed with physical violence and, they think that if they can silence you, they don't need to even turn up to a protest. and that has worked remarkably well over the last several years. i think what we're seeing now that women we're seeing now is that women standing their rights are standing up for their rights are starting headway. so starting make some headway. so just a day before posy was threatened horribly new threatened so horribly new zealand, world athletics zealand, we saw world athletics finally say that men who call themselves women are not to compete in women's sports. and that was great. we had 24 hours of being really cheerful here and praising the campaigner who had worked hard to make this had worked so hard to make this happen we see this. so happen. and then we see this. so i the violence because i think the violence is because the worked. the silencing hasn't worked. i mean, there's a very classed way of talking about posy . so posy of talking about posy. so posy isn't invited as was last year, to cambridge to say exactly the same thing , say the same thing same thing, say the same thing as her. i say that men cannot be women and that women cannot have rights unless women can say that

anywhere, like she stands in a park and and i've been to park and it and i've been to some of her events and i stand completely with her. get completely with her. i get ianed completely with her. i get invited to a cambridge college. there are still baying mobs. the policing . the managing of policing and. the managing of these events is equally poor , these events is equally poor, both circumstances in this country. even in new zealand. but we are doing the same thing. the people who think that posy is maybe too popular or that she in some way brings it on herself. what i bring out of myself to them, i stand completely with her. i'm just doing it in a different place, that's all. i mean, a of the violence is justified because they say is that she is a. she is far right. and these kind of smears are used to justify the violence. just bring violence. i want to just bring in for both of you. there was an event today in hyde park. it was the let speak the monthly let women speak event. to have event. it just happens to have fallen after this event. fallen just after this event. and graeme linehan, comedy and graeme linehan, the comedy writer, was present and he actually filmed the police walking away. i wonder if we can see some approaching it once it comes over here. walking away .

comes over here. walking away. with the walking away . and with the walking away. and meanwhile, this has been going on over here that these policemen are walking away from it. and then just to put that into context, we actually have some footage from what was going on within the women's gathering there if we can just show that well. yeah . what . this one lady well. yeah. what. this one lady has got there. the night was . has got there. the night was. talking okay. so, eva, can i just ask you about so that we have the of the people speaking at hyde park speakers corner, which is what it's designed for completely surrounded by protesters chanting the only goodis protesters chanting the only good is dead one. it strikes me that this tactic of smearing someone as a and then using that

to justify violent behaviour, that seems to be the way it's going. well, if we lived in a kind of normal world where we didn't throw labels around like this and didn't this all the time and didn't take seriously so seriously take them seriously so seriously that would say this is such that you would say this is such an incredibly childish way of responding to responding politically to someone of, you know, someone the kind of, you know, i've seen them when i've gone to protest a these kind of protest a kind of these kind of trans activists , often overgrown trans activists, often overgrown teenage us, we've never been told no in their life. and that's part of why they respond this way. but if you know, you know, the police, the people that are supposed to take seriously threats of violence. i mean, all mean, they lock people up all the time doing much, much the time for doing much, much less on social media. but, you know, they're there. they're in an awkward position now because they supposed to be, you they are supposed to be, you know, but jailing people for writing limericks about trans ideology so that it's awkward them to go in and then arrest, as i say people. yes. who are literally with literally calling filth threats women's lives and i think it's you need to make a very clear point of saying in

any other situation that wasn't related to the trans discussion. if women being threatened in this way, it be we would be talking it for months. you know, they would be all over every single newspaper. but because an alum is a very good point, because it's to the gender identity and because it's posy parker who a particular kind parker who has a particular kind of, you know , nonsense working of, you know, nonsense working class way about that doesn't, you know, sticks in a lot of people's, especially even within the movement. no one the gender movement. no one wants not. helen, can i ask wants to not. helen, can i ask you your response? i mean, you for your response? i mean, we walking away we saw the police walking away and do anything about and failing to do anything about it. was london today. it. that was in london today. that was just a few hours ago. what's your response to that? so one my was there. one of my friends was there. graham a friend but graham is also a friend but i haven't him since and haven't spoken to him since and she said it was completely terrifying. they were surrounded. there before terrifying. they were surr0|people there before terrifying. they were surr0|people and there before terrifying. they were surr0|people and there ere before terrifying. they were surr0|people and there were afore terrifying. they were surr0|people and there were about most people and there were about eight of them completely surrounded. and when more surrounded. and when some more women they they women turned up, they were they felt but again felt a bit better. but again they got hemmed in. police they got hemmed in. the police didn't to. the one that i didn't seem to. the one that i was in brighton recently was at in brighton most recently couldn't be like we could

couldn't be heard. like we could only heard in. the live only be heard in. the live stream person because stream not in person because the shouting so loud over us. shouting was so loud over us. you know that's not free speech. the apparently the police said apparently to the today that it's the the stewards today that it's the free of the protesters to free speech of the protesters to be over women be able to shout over women with, know, vuvuzelas with, you know, the vuvuzelas and megaphones. with, you know, the vuvuzelas and megaphones . that's not and the megaphones. that's not free speech. that's the heckler's should heckler's veto. they should be moved that we can be moved back so that we can be heard and not feel so intimidated. i should say that a bunch women's rights bunch of women's rights campaigners campaigners campaigners and gay campaigners in free speech like the in general, free speech like the free speech union's sex matters, lgb alliance and others have written to the uk government and asked it to make representations . the new high . the new zealand high commissioner asking how come our citizens able go to citizens aren't able to go to new zealand and be protected by? the this sort the police from this sort violent threat and then have to leave than being able to leave early than being able to exercise ordinary democratic rights each other. rights to talk to each other. and hope we get response . and i hope we get a response. from i'm going to be from now on, i'm going to be going one of going to every single one of these that i possibly these events that i possibly can. and i call on everyone else to do so to. because if women cannot stand in a public place and ordinary words they and say any ordinary words they

like cannot be women. and if you say they be women, then you say they can be women, then you are destroying women's rights, then do not have any women's then we do not have any women's rights. have saying rights. so have to start saying it, scared. and it, even if we're scared. and finally and because we don't have much but i just want have much time. but i just want to ask a the kind of footage that we've showing tonight, that we've been showing tonight, given that it doesn't look so you possibly reason with you can possibly reason with these people that they are caught in some kind of caught up in some kind of hysteria they do genuinely hysteria where they do genuinely see can we see everyone is. how can we possibly address issue ? i possibly address this issue? i think to start think people have to start finding that metal and alongside women who say these kind of things and if you get called a transphobe and if you get into hot and whatever part of your life , so be it. i think there life, so be it. i think there are things that are more and that we have to sacrifice certain things in our life for like, you saying things like, you know, saying things that that women are that are true, that women are women and also women and men are men. and also think need to start calling think we need to start calling out the police i mean, i used to live in brighton and that was the edl and be the annual edl and it would be sort of like six drunk edl members protected by members surrounded protected by about police. then there about 45 police. and then there was, know, would on

was, you know, we would be on a counter—demonstration. but, you know, the idea that this is that this how the police this is just how the police operate absolute nonsense . operate an absolute nonsense. and it's not that i want more cops around protest. i think cops around protest. and i think free is very important, free speech is very important, as well the show. as you well know in the show. but something going on but there's something going on here there's here where there's a real cowardice actually confronting the in pretty much all the fact that in pretty much all areas life, it's on the areas life, whether it's on the media, in newspapers, in workplace cases, you know, even people among , friends, women people among, friends, women aren't able to talk about this. and something needs to change. ella and helen joyce, ella whelan and helen joyce, thank joining me very thank both for joining me very much. initiative after the break of free speech nation, there'll be high time we get some more questions. our lovely studio audience don't go anywhere . and audience don't go anywhere. and there's help for households. are you over state pension age? if your weekly income is below £182.60, or £278.70 if you live with a partner, you could be eligible for pension credit,

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welcome back to free nation. with me, andrew doyle . let's get with me, andrew doyle. let's get some more questions from our audience here. the first

question we've got this from izzy. why is it? hello? hello, angie. is the phrase dark horse racist? yes an employment tribunal that the phrase dark horse shouldn't considered racially offensive . this was racially offensive. this was a black worker tried to sue the citizens advice bureau because her manager had used the term. but the judge said the phrase means someone who has hidden talents, which we always know. and that's what. it's an idiom, isn't it? i mean, he's not literally talking about a dark horse. yeah. and she's an idiot . and this is an absolute nonsense. but i mean , i don't nonsense. but i mean, i don't really blame the person who's brought this complaint because we've had years now of people being told the everything and is racist. and if somebody says something you construe as racist , then it's definitely racist. and even if they haven't said anything and you haven't construed as racist, it's still racist. but that's actually into the crown prosecution service and the government's guide on hate to do hate crime. they say it's, to do with of they with the perception of what they call victim, even the call the victim, not even the complainant. have already complainant. you have already decided victim.

decided that the victim. so they say all perception . say it's all about perception. yes. could decide that yes. so i could decide that you're being really you're just being really homophobic to me now. yeah. yeah. i just guess. yeah. just because i just guess. and same person complained and the same person complained about porcupine about the term porcupine trees and also a witch hunt and said that they were this is racist as well , but at that they were this is racist as well, but at least you or something. well at least dark horse got the word horse is like it's got the word dark in it. i mean, working party is, there's nothing racist in there. it was like overly seasoned don't seasoned or something. i don't know . time what on earth do you know. time what on earth do you make this? i mean, are people make of this? i mean, are people just becoming more easily offended all the time? well, this interesting case this is a very interesting case because as leo said, raised because this as leo said, raised many, many complaints against the citizens advice bureau, who tend to be the more liberal among us because they deal with people who are very different on a daily basis and. i the judge said that it was a very wearing case because she was very incoherent . her evidence didn't incoherent. her evidence didn't make sense or her evidence contradicted itself. and sure . contradicted itself. and sure. well, i think we've got an example of somebody who thinks

that she can play cards, that she hasn't got. yeah, yeah . and she hasn't got. yeah, yeah. and the problem with this is that when somebody has a genuine complaint , the voters may get complaint, the voters may get muddy . this complaint, the voters may get muddy. this woman has sucked up else's time and patience . that's else's time and patience. that's a really good point. but i mean, you're saying it is does sound opportunistic. but then when there is a genuine case of someone being racist in the workplace. stop might workplace. people stop might start thinking, oh, it's probably the same thing. probably the same sort of thing. exactly case exactly laughs this kind of case isissue exactly laughs this kind of case is issue when you've got somebody. judge that it somebody. the judge said that it was could tell the was very you could tell the judge was emotionally tired i'm feeling even thinking feeling a bit even thinking about i. next question is about it i. next question is from gillian was gillian. hi. hi is cutting down trees the way to combat climate change? yeah, yeah. combat climate change? yeah, yeah . thunberg in love this yeah. thunberg in love this book. i love this story . so book. i love this story. so these these council leaders, they backed a plan to cut down this in their country, which, by the way, they backed this plan to cut down 500 trees in an orchard , cambridge, because they

orchard, cambridge, because they want route. but want to build a bus route. but the argument is that the bus route, it quicker to route, it makes it quicker to travel therefore reduces travel and therefore reduces gets us closer to net zero. i think it reduces the bus time by something like 10 seconds. so they stop right , a whole 500 they stop right, a whole 500 trees. yeah the name of the environment. yeah. well this is government. whenever you get government. whenever you get government do something, they're going to do badly and it's going to do it badly and it's going to do it badly and it's going to do it badly and it's going to be completely counter to intent. this is to the original intent. this is the should have smaller the way should have smaller government. if we're a government. if we're a government just government so small it just collated rubbish you know collated the rubbish you know clean the streets they exist . we clean the streets they exist. we wouldn't in this day also wouldn't be in this day and also we'd about $0.10 in we'd be paying about $0.10 in tax each. right. well not dying. i mean, come on, this is absolute ridiculous because i mean, you also think about the person uses bus number one. person who uses bus number one. shouldn't bus electric? shouldn't the bus be electric? so doesn't this take so surely, doesn't this take from need to make road from the need to make the road 10 seconds yeah. also 10 seconds shorter? yeah. also i don't about you, but every don't know about you, but every time on the bus this, time i've got on the bus this, somebody takes at half somebody takes at least half a minute work out where they put their car because they have to load their shopping. so buses

have wait anyway. fact have to wait anyway. the fact that going to destroy that they're going to destroy this old 1000 old this beautiful old 1000 year old orchard it's orchard as orchard and it's an orchard as well like plum trees or well with like plum trees or silly images. it's gorgeous. oh, my god, beautiful. they my god, it's beautiful. they want pave it with tarmac want to just pave it with tarmac . what i think is . and you know what i think is the you've got the problem here? you've got they narrowly won the vote. there were 33 people who voted for 26 against. there for it, 26 against. but there have thousand 300 residents have been thousand 300 residents complaining . so how have you got complaining. so how have you got a democracy with 2300 people say it's wrong but 33 people say it. so i think should go and tie ourselves to the trees. let's do that. strike. i'm distressed to the. our next question is from cerise. why is three so are you concerned sex education in scotland . i mean this has to go scotland. i mean this has to go to leo. yeah, i so this was a report in the telegraph. i actually couldn't believe this. so children as young as 11 are being taught that if they're not sure about their sexual orientation , they are queer. orientation, they are queer. right now, i didn't even know what sexual orientation when i was 11. so these are teaching materials which have been sort

of from this top edinburgh state school, which is called broom or your high. i hope i pronounce right . it does not country . but right. it does not country. but by watching somebody try and order from a man so clear. i mean you must have thought this is your homeland . yes. oh, you is your homeland. yes. oh, you must have some thoughts about this. i do hold you responsible. i 11 does so young but bear in mind the life expectancy for people in scotland 50 because of their is about 18. so this is middle aged , you know. yeah. no, middle aged, you know. yeah. no, i mean , the stuff that they're i mean, the stuff that they're being taught . yeah, they're being taught. yeah, they're being taught. yeah, they're being taught. yeah, they're being taught like pre advanced sexual sexual materials. yeah was quite and we also saw this there was a report about the isle of man school that was doing very extreme graphics , doing very extreme graphics, materials that was being taught in school . and then you have in school. and then you have people in parliament like the snp claiming snp mp john nicolson claiming they see the myth and i thought it was great because the safe schools posted schools alliance then posted the evidence his

evidence of this stuff to his twitter he blocked twitter account and he blocked them and, then carried on saying, evidence saying, yeah, the evidence doesn't exist because of course if you don't read the evidence, he's yeah. he's not there. yeah, yeah. i think problem is we've think the problem is we've we sort, we had any sort, we haven't had any scrutiny on in schools, scrutiny on sex in schools, which you know, quite, quite which is, you know, quite, quite an thing. nefarious an important thing. so nefarious elements into that elements have moved into that space and they're trying to push, push an agenda, not just, you know, teaching things like some of that. some of the teaching is around how to safely chalk sexual which is chalk a sexual partner, which is , sure an 11 year old , i'm pretty sure an 11 year old doesn't to know the safe doesn't need to know the safe way. do that is not to choke your partner. exactly exactly. don't be. and like the don't be. and this is like the new the tango advert new version. the tango advert wouldn't know, pupils would wouldn't you know, pupils would go deaf, deafening each be in the end amanda's the drag queen who went into school to teach the kids. there are 72 genders when a child put their hand up and say i think there's only two. the drag queen said , you've two. the drag queen said, you've offended me. get out of the classroom . yeah. amazing. classroom. yeah. amazing. look, this is partly the problem is not just these the sexually graphic elements, of graphic elements, which, of course, but

course, is a problem for, but the fact they're teaching the fact that they're teaching them. effectively a them. what is effectively a new religion idea there religion, the idea that there are multiple, know, 72 are multiple, you know, 72 different genders. it's a faith and they're it and they're teaching it as though fact than just though it's fact than just saying people this saying some people believe this which with by which i'd be fine with that by the but saying no this is the way but saying no this is definitely the case to a small child that there's a problem. yeah an issue because yeah there is an issue because personal social health, education not education in schools does not have clear framework around have a clear framework around it. clear enough it. it doesn't have clear enough rules i used to be a rules actually, i used to be a teacher had to do teacher and when we had to do this sort of thing that , you this sort of thing that, you literally get a pack. yeah and you sort of get this thing and you sort of get this thing and you have to suddenly read it. and it's not your subject because you're usually like, i taught drama and other things. like to teach the like when we had to teach the kids the eu i don't know kids about the eu i don't know what he's saying about eu and i didn't realise had to do like speeches my got up speeches on it. my kids got up and talking about and started talking about eurovision. gina g and started talking about eurovision. gina 6 said, well, that's what i know. and the point is it's the it actually does need to come government, in my opinion. i think there need to be clearer guidelines because now education is like the west.

yes, we have a lot academies, we have a lot of different schools , a lot of different things. and it means that people can push certain ideologies right certain ideologies left, right and but loads of and centre but loads of activists effectively activists are effectively bringing through bringing this stuff in through the door. the government the back door. the government probably doesn't even know it's going yeah, that's going on. yeah, well, that's what that there what i mean. like that there needs to be a framework needs to be a clearer framework and to sort of say, and you do need to sort of say, okay , some people this, okay, some people believe this, some that equally some people believe that equally you a lot religious you do have a lot of religious schools. so yeah, education as a whole that that does need to be more on what the more of a focus on what the national curriculum. yeah great. well well done as well for knowing what it stands for because anyone because i don't know anyone does and to be a teacher as and i used to be a teacher as well and i never bothered to learn. okay. after the break, i'm free speech. freedom of i'm free speech. a freedom of information has information request has uncovered around information request has unc aren't around information request has unc aren't trained around information request has unc aren't trained in around information request has unc aren't trained in free round the aren't trained in free speech laws. this might explain an awful lot. toby from the free speech union who made the request and joins me next to see him .

welcome back to free speech a freedom of request by the free speech union has found that police forces across the country aren't training their officers in article ten of the european convention . human rights, which convention. human rights, which protects free speech. the report claims officers are only being taught about gender ideology. so here to discuss report which is called the urgent need to teach police about free speech is toby young of the free speech union. welcome to hope . could you told welcome to hope. could you told me about the freedom of information request. you put it information request. you put it in on a hunch that. this is the kind of thing you would discover. yeah, well, it was actually the idea of carey research officer. she sent foia requests to all 41 police forces in england and wales to ask them kind of training on legal protections there are for free speech that they receive in the course of learning how to be police officers. yes. and the

answer was really shocking . answer was really shocking. several of the police forces responded by sending us what they would training by way of eqtu they would training by way of equity diversity and inclusion. so that was a response to our question about article ten, clearly didn't know what article ten was. many them just didn't provide any training at all on article ten, those that they'd only provided about one line worth of training . so we worth of training. so we concluded that all of the respondents , 8% of police respondents, 8% of police forces, said that their police officers received either no training on article ten or an absolutely negligible amount. when we also asked them about whether they were training their officers in equity, diversity and inclusion , the floodgates and inclusion, the floodgates just opened , you know, 56% just opened, you know, 56% claimed it was embedded all the way through the training they provide their officers. four of them said they provide so much edr training just to respond to our request would exceed the cost limit of four why requests 14 said that it was embedded in that training like a golden

thread running all the way through . seemed to be poetic through. seemed to be poetic about. i guess that that's about it. but it was extraordinary. well, that's very interesting, isn't it because increasingly it isn't it because increasingly it is seems as though there was is it seems as though there was actually a conflict between adr training free speech, almost training and free speech, almost as though if you prioritise ideology sort of underlies ideology that sort of underlies edr training, you are actually against free speech. is that right? i think that is right. is absolutely in conflict with free speech. they you know, having been taught stonewall and mermaids and gendered intelligence, one of the forces was doing training centred around the gingerbread person , around the gingerbread person, which distinguishes between , you which distinguishes between, you know, your anatomical sex and your gender expression, your soul, your soul, your gendered . soul, your soul, your gendered. yes. and yeah , they're taught to yes. and yeah, they're taught to really value and, respect, whatever these minority groups, these identity groups hold sacred . so they really do think sacred. so they really do think it's their job. protect trans rights activists, for instance, from hearing two words. and if

wears a t shirt saying woman equals adult human, where if they say on twitter that they don't think transwomen are women the police will now go round to their threaten them with arrest . they come down to the station to, have a conversation about it and will often non crime hate incidents against their names which show up on an enhanced criminal record . so i mean, it criminal record. so i mean, it would be one thing, wouldn't it, if they were trained, you know, if they were trained, you know, if someone attacked for being if someone is attacked for being gay trans or gay or for being trans or whatever, you that and deal with it because that's against the law. but being law. fair enough but being offended that someone's offended the idea that someone's their because their feelings are hurt because of people said. of what other people have said. i mean, that's just a complete leap, isn't it? it's a completely only they in completely not only are they in top writing the whereby they think that obliged to record non crime hate instance against people's names if they've said something incorrect that an activist has complained about and the free speech calculates that about a quarter of a now charges have been record it against people in hate. it's not quite since 2014, so that's an

average of about 66, 67 a day. i mean, you wonder why know when you get burgled or your car gets broken. the police don't come round. it's because they're far too busy policing tweets to police our streets. advice police our streets. my advice if you get burgled. when you do get burgled. andrew when , to the local , you call out to the local police that the burglar police stations that the burglar in addition to trampling all over you most treasured possessions defaecating your carpet urinating your sink. in addition heap spray painted transwomen aren't women on the wall. you'll have five officers round that and a helicopter within about 30 seconds. you paint a hell of a picture there, toby but yeah, i mean, this is it possible would conceivable it possible would it conceivable that actually embed that we could actually embed free training the police free speech training the police in the way that they have done with training? i think they're going have to suella going to have to because suella braverman home secretary braverman the home secretary issued code of practise issued this new code of practise about the recording and retention of non crime hate incidents and advised the police for the first time to be mindful the legal protections for free speech. both article ten and in the european convention on human rights and also a common law

protections for free speech. she says the police have got to mindful of this and use their common sense and not just talk up these borderline records against someone just for being politically incorrect. but the problem is how can the police be mindful of the laws protecting free speech and balance them properly the need to properly against the need to protect minority groups from harassment and intimidation if they don't know anything about free if the only free speech? if the only training is all on one side training they is all on one side of the aisle. toby young, thanks so much forjoining me. really appreciate . so after the break appreciate. so after the break down free speech nation, michael gove is lost for words and a dog some painting. it's almost for social sensations. so in a moment .

so welcome to free speech nation. it's time for social

sensations this is the part of the show where we look at what's been going viral on social media. and first up is this video scotland , of course, will video scotland, of course, will be having a first a new first minister, michael gove not minister, michael gove did not want to miss the chance pay want to miss the chance to pay tribute to previous tribute to the previous incumbent sturgeon's incumbent claire sturgeon's last morning in the office is tomorrow. what do you think? her biggest is . you know, i think biggest is. you know, i think it's fair enough. i'm with him . it's fair enough. i'm with him. i mean, i would struggle now. yeah mean, i think the biggest achievement is scotland didn't completely catch fire. yeah that's not bad . there's not much that's not bad. there's not much you can see. i mean , across all you can see. i mean, across all metrics, you can measure a government run metrics, you can measure a government run across metrics, you can measure a government run across health, education, life expectancy , education, life expectancy, nicola sturgeon it's really dragged scotland backwards about 25 years. but even by her own aims, you know, she wanted independence but the ratings for were nearly there they were nearly the 5050 mark for scottish independence. and that was by like

was gone dropped down by like six know six points. i mean, they know their yeah think when the their yeah i think when the binmen decided to strike because they were so angry with i think that knocked independence really off . yeah. like you said it off. yeah. like you said it plunged them back. i would say further than 20 is. yeah. if because we were all there a lot of us were up in edinburgh when the bin strikes were happening. yes i remember they had the climate change conference then all the bin strikers struck in glasgow i mean glasgow as well. yes. so i mean but also pushing through stuff it went to of your don't it went to of your voters don't want you to . yeah this is not want you to. yeah this is not great is it. and not being able to actually agree with your own policy . she was asked on on on policy. she was asked on on on the news you know do you think that i'll agree or is i liberation the principle of brazen the trans male rapist who was sent to a women's prison. she nicola sturgeon was asked as a liberation of women. she couldn't that question even though liberation obviously isn't a woman but under nicola sturgeon's laws she be so he would be yeah yeah . so

would be yeah yeah. so confusing. okay and next they always make me include an animal doing something lovable in the show. so this week is there is a dog fighting and a forget my day . on that day sandy. okay and the man was changed on day that say everything sucks . i mean say everything sucks. i mean it's rubbish it terrible pain sickness i don't know what going better than i expected . good. i better than i expected. good. i mean the flowers in the middle had a stalk it had petals . it had a stalk it had petals. it had a stalk it had petals. it had the pollen in the middle. you think this is cute? they might be me about burning his feet with cigarette so yeah. know obviously coached i mean as you can see dogs to do anything you can see dogs to do anything you can see dogs to do anything you can them to round up sheep yeah the question is was that art. there we go that's a good

call but if you've just call the end of the show, that make no sense. okay this is the part where we talk through your unfiltered dilemmas. i think we've got some time today for that. the first dilemma came in from anna west. she says, from anna in west. she says, i ordered a new spent a day ordered a new and spent a day off my putting up. it off with my putting it up. it looks great, but my colleague says a total waste of a day says was a total waste of a day off and i should have paid the delivery 50 quid put it delivery crew 50 quid to put it up for. do you reckon, up for. what do you reckon, claire ? i it depends how claire? i mean, it depends how much you can earn in a day, i guess , or how much you enjoyed guess, or how much you enjoyed much of a bonding experience. it was if you really enjoy putting up wardrobe based on those grit, it's like getting a new jigsaw puzzle. isn't puzzle. exactly. isn't it? isn't the point that she's trying get exactly you say. bond with exactly what you say. bond with her would this her daughter. why why would this person cynical and come person be so cynical and come back, quite back, say this. really quite a colleague well. also, i mean, colleague as well. also, i mean, i've got the feeling that wardrobe is to fall down just the way it's formal because. the child involved back. do child was involved back. what do you of the thing? that's you make of the thing? that's a really lovely way to spend it of because the one of the because one of the one of the

beautiful things about putting up a piece of furniture with somebody you love is when you look at it and you think, oh look at it and you think, oh look at it and you think, oh look at that one key. screw that i catching my dress i keep catching my dress on. yeah, together. yeah, yeah, you got together. yeah, yeah, i got an infection i yeah, i got an infection when i cut myself it. that's part cut myself with it. that's part of way, isn't it? okay of its way, isn't it? okay another dilemma now. this from carol and kettering. she says, myself and my other half moved into in november, into our new place in november, and too busy to and we've been too busy to introduce ourselves to the neighbours. see them and neighbours. now we see them and it's a bit awkward. have it's getting a bit awkward. have left late for good old left it too late for good old fashioned introduction. is fashioned introduction. this is a british problem , isn't a very british problem, isn't it? know, a lot of people, it? you know, a lot of people, a lot people. this what you lot of people. this what you think, diane? should you just. yeah always in favour of yeah no, i'm always in favour of just going for i think it's just going for it. i think it's a lot better know somebody a lot better to know somebody whose push through. go. whose name and push through. go. look, so. we've been look, i know it's so. we've been here november. sorry, here since november. i'm sorry, but don't. please tell but i just don't. please tell me. well, that's one me. okay, well, that's one option. other option. ignore option. the other option. ignore them for the rest of your life. seem true englishman. seem like true englishman. i don't have to that. yeah. don't have to do that. yeah. it's so much less awkward, it's just so much less awkward, you see them come you know, when you see them come and just go the other way and the just hide behind the sofa,

you know, when you need help just no , fine. i'm just go. oh, no, no, fine. i'm just go. oh, no, no, fine. i'm just trapped under the car. let's not cross that when we come to it. what do you think, liv? yeah i mean, maybe you start a new life living. living in somewhere, so you in a shed somewhere, so you don't don't to don't need to. don't need to ever them. think that's ever see them. i think that's obviously where i think neighbours overrated. just all you yourself. i'm you need is yourself. okay, i'm not traffic. thank not missing traffic. no, thank you for joining not missing traffic. no, thank you forjoining us for you very much for joining us for free speech nation. this was the of course when a comedian was cancelled for telling jokes. a peer was at a university for the value of discussion and activists at a women's event tried to stop women from speaking. thank you so much to my panel, diane spencer and leo kearse, and to all of my guests this week. and if you want to join us here live in the studio and be part of our wonderful audience, you can do that. just go to ww dot sro audiences .com it's. a brilliant thing to do because we got free wine and rolls and all sorts of things having beacon options just having a beacon options just turn tuned for the turn up. stay tuned for the brilliant dolan tonight. brilliant mark dolan tonight. that's remember

that's next. and do remember that is tonight that headliners is on tonight with kearse . so do join us with leo kearse. so do join us for that as well. thanks so much. our . for that as well. thanks so much. our. good evening my name is rachel ayres and welcome to our latest weather update from the met office. now looking ahead to week and be quite ahead to week and it be quite a cold start tomorrow but becoming increasingly settled and this is due to an of high pressure that's going to make its way in from the northwest to become centred over the uk . the time we centred over the uk. the time we get to monday morning, clearing away low pressure we've away that low pressure we've seen over the weekend but back to two nights and we'll see some showers, northern and eastern coast in particular through the evening. cloud will start to evening. but cloud will start to quite readily break up, allowing for quite harsh and widespread for quite a harsh and widespread frost scotland northern frost across scotland northern ireland and northern england. and we could see some icy stretches to start monday down east and coasts now looking further south and that will a patchy frost around m maybe the

old bit of mist and fog to as well as the odd shower but will clear through monday morning to a fine dry for many a bright day with plenty lengthy sunny intervals throughout the day. there'll be a bit more in the way cloud in the south and west, but will be some sunny spells to and within these it'll be feeling quite pleasant even though temperatures won't be much than what seen much higher than what we've seen today evening and today as we go into evening and with those clear spells around a frost will start to form down northern eastern coast in particular now looking further west, we've got next low pressure system making way in from the atlantic, bringing in increased cloud cover and outbreaks of rain as so here, temperatures will actually rise through the night. but as we get to choose a morning we could still have a patchy frost further and east through tuesday morning we see that cloud and rain making its way northwards and eastwards and this could bnng and eastwards and this could bring some hail snow particularly over scotland . we particularly over scotland. we might just see a touch of snow oven might just see a touch of snow over. northern england too. and that really sets the theme for

the rest of the week with unsettled weather not going too far away, but milder temperatures too, as especially from midweek

it's 9:00. and this is mark dolan tonight in my big opinion. whisper it folks rishi sunak and the tories might just defy the odds and win the next general election . in the big story, mps election. in the big story, mps jobs are back in the news. should they be paid more to discourage taking another career? and my mar means guest is the esteemed winston churchill biographer andrew little. what do we think about churchill st all set out we'll discuss that after ten big guests big stories and always big opinions a lively 2 hours to come. but first the headlines with rae addison .