hello there. 6:00 michelle dewberry and this is dewbs & co. dewberry and this is dewbs& co. what do you think when i tell you this word.7 landlord. do you think? yeah. you this word? landlord. do you think? yeah. decent, hardworking business person. or do you think a little bit of a scourge on society leeching off people that can't afford their own property ? your thoughts on the renters reform bill? i want to look at tonight's and a hugely sensitive topic, assisted dying today. you've had your first evidence session to look at whether or not the law should change in this country, should it? is it time to legalise it or not? and

west yorkshire police, you'll remember that fallout from the goings on with a 14 year old and a crime not that long ago. well, if you ask me anyway, the lunacy continues because i couldn't help but notice the information which very kindly informed us that a woman had been jailed for attacking the potter. i have to say it was an awful crime . but say it was an awful crime. but unless my i is deceive me, that is not a woman. unless my i is deceive me, that is not a woman . and it's got me is not a woman. and it's got me wondering do fox matter when it comes? but take your later matters of the law. i say most certainly they shouldn't. i'm getting a little bit worried . getting a little bit worried. the ideology is taking over reality . let me say something. reality. let me say something. i'm not. before we get into all of that , we'll bring ourselves of that, we'll bring ourselves up to speed. what's a nice. the latest headlines for polly middlehurst . thanks very much . middlehurst. thanks very much. our top story from the gb

newsroom today. m15 has increased the terrorism threat for northern ireland from substantial to severe , meaning substantial to severe, meaning an attack is highly likely. it comes a year after britain lowered the threat level for northern ireland for the first time in more than a decade. well, today, the deputy chief constable mark hamilton says the police service of northern ireland is working hard to make the community safer. we're not going to be deterred from providing our visible, accessible, responsive places to the community. we're determined not to go backwards. northern ireland has made great progress over the last number of years, as is policing. the threat level was severe for a number of years. unfortunately we are somewhat used to it, but it doesn't mean we accept it. it means we have to work even harder to it to a level that harder to get it to a level that is far more acceptable . also is far more acceptable. also today, rishi sunak has defended the level of funding the minister of defence has to rebuild ammunition stockpiles which have been run down following the war in ukraine.

the uk is the second largest contribute to of military assistance to the country. well the prime minister has been facing questions from the liaison committee on his policies and his performance , policies and his performance, saying the mps will also ask him about small boat crossings across the english channel and household bills as well as post—brexit arrangements for northern ireland. i wouldn't necessarily see it as a negative that this our own stockpiles have been drawn down for the simple fact that if you think about what are those weapons for money they were ultimately there to degrade and deter from earlier russian aggression . they earlier russian aggression. they are being used to do exactly that. they're just being used by the ukrainians. so in one sense, even though the stockpiles are lower, they are being used for the purposes with which they are intended degrading intended and degrading the capabilities adversary in capabilities of an adversary in the so, yes, we will the process. so, yes, we will rebuild them over time . rishi rebuild them over time. rishi sunak speaking earlier now the snp leader humza yousaf has now been officially selected as scotland's first minister, promising to never shy away from

tackling the big issues facing his country. the 37 candidates selected as the parliament's nominee for the position of first minister is humza yousaf . first minister is humza yousaf. well, as i was saying, the 37 year old is replacing nicola sturgeon , who formally tendered sturgeon, who formally tendered her resignation to the king earlier after more than eight years in the role . that is a years in the role. that is a really proud day for me and my family. i hope it's also a proud day for scotland as it speaks to our values as a country, as i stand here as the first ever muslim to lead a western democratic nation . you try democratic nation. you try telling that to 16 year old humza yousaf, who posted 911, was questioned constantly about his loyalty to this country. we have presiding officer collectively come a long way . collectively come a long way. well, diabetes understands, kate, for us will leave the scottish government after she

narrowly lost out to mr. yousaf. it's believed she turned down an offer from the new first minister to be rural affairs secretary, a demotion from her previous role as finance secretary. she'll remain, though, on the backbenches as now the education secretary is urging teaching unions to accept the latest pay offer and end their industrial action. the government is offering a £1,000 one off payment , as well government is offering a £1,000 one off payment, as well as a four and a half% pay rise for next year. but the national education union has recommended its members reject the deal and instead hold further strikes on april the 27th and may the second. but the education secretary, gillian keegan , says secretary, gillian keegan, says this is the best offer teachers will get. we're going into exam season. lots of young people and their parents are quite anxious at the moment. so we would very much hope that, you know , that much hope that, you know, that the unions do not call or strike. it's disruptive for our children. they've been through enough. if this is not accepted, then what we will do is we will

both go to independent pay both go to the independent pay review then they'll review body. then they'll obviously things obviously look at things like retention recruitment. retention and recruitment. they look they'll look at inflation, and they'll come recommendation. come back with a recommendation. so be the normal so that will be the normal process we go through process which we go through every so revert to that every year. so we revert to that process . the former labour process. the former labour leader, jeremy corbyn says he has every intention of representing islington north at the next general election, adding he won't be intimidated into silence. that's after labour's national executive committee approved sir keir starmer's motion to block mr. corbyn from standing as a labour candidate. mr. corbyn was suspended from the parliamentary party in 2020 over his reaction to a report into anti—semitic ism he could fill. still however, run as an independent now , as you've been hearing the now, as you've been hearing the us president joe biden has called on congress to pass an assault weapons ban after six people, including three children, were killed in a school shooting in nashville on monday. and if you're watching on television a warning, the following footage you may find

distressing . police shot and distressing. police shot and killed the 28 year old charles traves gender attacker identified as audrey hale, who was armed with at least two semi—automatic rifles and a handgun.the semi—automatic rifles and a handgun. the force says the covenant elementary school was singled out for the attack, but the victim was targeted and random . those are your latest random. those are your latest news headlines. i'm back in an houn news headlines. i'm back in an hour. see you then . hour. see you then. thanks for that. well, i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company right through till 7:00 tonight. so alongside me, toby young is the director of the free speech union . and a new face. we like union. and a new face. we like those that way. michael walker , those that way. michael walker, contributing editor at novara media. good evening . good media. good evening. good evening. good evening to you, too. we're taking away at the table tonight. so if we all

managed to sit seated on these stools , by the end of it, we get stools, by the end of it, we get a prize. a secret prize. i'll give you the details a bit later on. anyway, you know the drill. so it's not just about those three here. it is very much about you guys at home as well. what's mind tonight? get what's on your mind tonight? get in with me. all usual in touch with me. all the usual ways. gb views at gb news dot uk is the email. of course, if twitter your thing you can twitter is your thing you can get me there at michelle dewberry or news. now dewberry or at gb news. now i said a contravention contra of actual word to you. perhaps a little bit early on. trigger warning landlord . i have to say warning landlord. i have to say that these days because for many this is a phrase now a term landlords. the notion of a landlords. the notion of a landlord which can bring fury into many people who are indeed strong, willing to get onto the housing ladder. they perhaps see landlords as the cause of their ills. one of the reasons why the property market is so broken to older people, they are providing an essential service. what says you , michael gove by the way, i

you, michael gove by the way, i would say that he has been sending a few confusing, mixed messages . sending a few confusing, mixed messages. this sending a few confusing, mixed messages . this vowed to crack messages. this vowed to crack down on landlords raising rent above inflation. he's got renters reform bill you might be familiar with it is going to scrap no fault evictions and allowed tenants to challenge large increases . but i'm going large increases. but i'm going to come to you first on this, michael. you actually have you know, you're on your own when it comes to housing. you've got a podcast specifically on this subject. do think landlords subject. do you think landlords are a kind of force for good in this country or not? i mean i mean, i have a landlord and i get frustrated when he raises my rent. so i suppose on that account, i think probably not. i'm a renter . account, i think probably not. i'm a renter. i'm a private renter. i think in a way, we probably should move away from sort of the moral status of the landlord. and i think what's under discussion here is how private renting can be made tolerable for people who live in that for example , as that sector. so, for example, as i it, the renters i understand it, the renters reform bill, the idea, as you say, get rid of fault say, is to get rid of no fault evictions so that you can't just

be out on the whim of the be kicked out on the whim of the landlord. you can make some plans for future. but key to plans for the future. but key to having a reform works. having a reform that works. there's saying you there's no point in saying you can't eviction, but you can't do an eviction, but you can't do an eviction, but you can't have an unlimited rent hike because then if my landlord wants out for wants to kick me out for whatever reason, can say, whatever reason, he can say, well, not going you well, i'm not going to force you to but i'm going to raise to leave, but i'm going to raise your rent 50. and if he your rent by 50. and if he raises rent by 50, that's raises my rent by 50, that's a no fault eviction by another name, so that's i name, really? so that's why i think limits to rent increases will be an essential part of this make renting in this reform to make renting in the sector tolerable, the private sector tolerable, which moment really which at the moment it's really not. example, i'm not. you know, for example, i'm just because just dreading july because that's when we got our 15% rent hike and we managed to swallow that. this time if that. but this time around, if we am i to we get another 15, am i going to have to move? it's very difficult to accommodate years. have you got a yes? mean, i'm have you got a yes? i mean, i'm not prying personal not prying into your personal business, you you got business, but i've you you got like asset. you've got a like a year asset. you've got a you know, i'm happy to go into my private business on one my private business on this one because think it's very because i think it's very relevant. it's something i care quite yes. so we quite a lot about. yes. so we want 12 month contract want a 12 month contract on a shorthold tenancy. that's what

want a 12 month contract on a sho rentersenancy. that's what want a 12 month contract on a sho renters reform that's what want a 12 month contract on a sho renters reform billt's what want a 12 month contract on a sho renters reform bill would it want a 12 month contract on a sho renters reform bill would be the renters reform bill would be replacing. and we actually ask for month we said, you for 24 month one. we said, you know, like a better know, we'd like a better security. please have security. could we please have a 24 contract? i said, 24 month contract? and i said, no. so it's not no. right. so because it's not in their interest, you know, they want as much flexibility as possible. fair and the law possible. fair play and the law at the moment allows to at the moment allows them to have i do think it have that. but i do think it is time a change time that we have a change because to be because it's not fair to be asking many people to not asking so many people to not know if they're going to be made homeless few time. homeless in a few months time. toby, where do stand on the. toby, where do you stand on the. well, i'm opposed rent well, i'm opposed to rent controls, which is what effectively is proposed effectively is being proposed in this bill. why the problem? we have a have in this country is a shortage of housing, including a shortage of housing, including a shortage rental shortage of rental accommodation. that's why, in part, higher than they part, rents are higher than they should be. and the way to address that is to not life address that is to not make life more landlords, more difficult for landlords, because to because then you're not going to have people coming forward have more people coming forward and properties to rent. and creating properties to rent. they're not going to become buy to let landlords , they're not to let landlords, they're not going to rent rooms in their property if they rent them property if they can't rent them for market price but to for the market price but have to go market price because go onto the market price because of this bill. so i don't think it's going solve the it's going to solve the fundamental is

fundamental problem, which is a shortage accommodation shortage of rental accommodation . problems too, . there are other problems too, with . you we with rent controls. you often we see whether in post in new york, for instance, that landlord is not to charge not being able to charge the kind money instead kind of money they want, instead neglect properties they neglect the properties they don't maintenance . don't do routine maintenance. and another third reason, i think, that it's sort of like think, is that it's sort of like a flat tax. it's not progressive . you impose a control, a . if you impose a control, a limit on how much landlords can charge, then everyone in in existing accommodation benefits the rich as well as the poor. those who can afford it, as well as those who are struggling to afford it. so it's not progressive. a cousin of progressive. it's a cousin of a flat tax. it's flat benefit. flat tax. it's a flat benefit. but would you see it as good but would you see it as a good thing if you got into a situation where private landlords said, you know what, enough there's too many enough now, there's too many control on me is too difficult. i'm jacking it all in, i'm quitting the buy to let market in your mind , would that be good in your mind, would that be good or not? no that would be a bad thing because that would reduce the stock of rental accommodation. need accommodation. and what we need is people . we need to is more people. we need to incentivise to enter the incentivise people to enter the buy, to let to market, become

buy, to let to market, become buy, to let landlords say there were rental properties out were more rental properties out there. the there. and ultimately that's the best prices down. best way to force prices down. michael i where michael well, i mean, where i agree with toby is that rent controls won't fix the housing crisis. need more crisis. what we need is more houses, think it's houses, but i think it's potentially misleading to potentially a bit misleading to say controls stop say that rent controls will stop us more houses because i us getting more houses because i don't noticed, don't know if you've noticed, but tend to build don't know if you've noticed, but houses. tend to build don't know if you've noticed, but houses. they tend to build don't know if you've noticed, but houses. they ten existing.d new houses. they buy existing ones. so question is how do ones. so the question is how do we private builders ? we encourage private builders? and i think councils have a big role start building more role to start building more council homes. think council homes. i think that's a very to do. so very sensible thing to do. so we need increase stock. yes, need to increase the stock. yes, that's question. do we also that's one question. do we also need living in need to make living in the private sector tolerable? private rental sector tolerable? that's a separate question. i think some think that does require some degree rent controls. as degree of rent controls. as i explained before, now we will have solve the have to separately solve the supply maybe supply crisis. maybe that's going planning reform going to be for planning reform . a lot of . i'd like to have a lot of investment the state, but i investment from the state, but i don't rent controls and don't think rent controls and massively increasing supply necessarily in necessarily need to be in conflict . you? flipside to conflict. do you? a flipside to your argument is actually if you want a law to buy to let landlords that says, you know what's too difficult it's what's too difficult now, it's very expensive profits out there. off. isn't there there. i'm off. isn't there a part of you that would say,

actually, going to actually, either i'm going to have of surge have this kind of surge of properties market? properties onto the market? supply, demand, basic economics. you then going drive the you then going to drive the pnces you then going to drive the prices properties down prices of the properties down and more people and and actually more people and perhaps might be able to afford to a property and to buy a decent property and thus you don't such a huge thus you don't need such a huge private rental or any rental market if you can actually afford your own home. i'm not sure this bill and the sure that this bill and the control that's imposing on what landlords can charge and whether they can evict people will mean they'll such a large exodus from they'll such a large exodus from the buy to let market that a glut of properties will then come on to the market to such an extent that it will force the pnces extent that it will force the prices to make housing more affordable. i've broadened affordable. no i've broadened out my conversation. i'm not just focusing about this. renters reform because renters reform bill because there's measures there's been loads of measures now landlords will say now that many landlords will say that landlord measures. that until landlord measures. so you can't offset your interest mortgage to the way sorry your mortgage to the way sorry your mortgage interest or the way you used to be able to. there's lots of changes in terms of of different changes in terms of if putting them from if people are putting them from businesses you businesses, in terms of you can't you dividends and all

can't tax you dividends and all the rest of it. so actually when you look at on paper, for you look at it on paper, for many a big many people it's a big difference. for many people, it's not profitable as it it's not as profitable as it once what i'm saying is once was. so what i'm saying is actually perhaps it's not such a bad thing if loads people bad thing if loads of people just jacking up sector because ultimately i would say is ultimately what i would say is you've got to have a scenario where people can afford a home. it's wrong if you go to work , it's wrong if you go to work, you know, you work all the hours called seconds. you cannot even afford your own front door. you've got to live in a converted house. sometimes we've got knows many people got you knows how many people it's not acceptable. you know, i've been there is also an argument that you can't have it both ways, toby, what both ways, toby, because what you're to be you're what you seem to be suggesting you regulate suggesting is if you regulate landlords, that's going to be just to just enough landlords to sell their it's their properties that it's a problem for renters. it sort problem for renters. and it sort of but not of increases rents, but not enough sell their enough landlords to sell their properties, that it lowers house pnces properties, that it lowers house prices know how you prices. and i don't know how you found sort of sweet spot found that sort of sweet spot where regulation is bad for everyone. you know, they sell everyone. you know, if they sell the to the homes, that's going to be good home if they good for home buyers. if they keep homes going to keep the homes that's going to maintain status quo. maintain the status quo. for renters, they're going to be

winners here. right. winners and losers here. right. and i think renters are generally willing accept the generally willing to accept the risk that there might be a few less properties rental less properties on the rental market, that we market, if that means that we get when it comes get some security when it comes to much rent we're going to to how much rent we're going to be paying five year be paying over a five year period. i agree that these period. well, i agree that these measures may measures and other measures may mean people currently in mean that people currently in the buy to let business put the buy to let business will put their the market their properties on the market because longer because the games no longer worth but i'm not worth the candle. but i'm not sure will happen in sure that will happen in sufficient quantity to actually significantly lower prices of, you know , starter housing to you know, starter housing to enable them to be afforded by people in, you know, just starting out and still going to be unaffordable when you do think it will be insufficient quantity to dramatically increase rents, mean , because increase rents, i mean, because basically what i'm saying is you seem to think that enough people will leave the market, that it's a for renters, but not a problem for renters, but not enough will leave market, enough will leave the market, that boon to home buyers. that it's a boon to home buyers. and sort the and i'm wondering sort of the sweet might be it might be and i'm wondering sort of the s\boon might be it might be and i'm wondering sort of the s\boon to might be it might be and i'm wondering sort of the s\boon to some|t be it might be and i'm wondering sort of the s\boon to some homet might be and i'm wondering sort of the s\boon to some home buyers, be and i'm wondering sort of the s\boon to some home buyers, but a boon to some home buyers, but for part, not sort for the most part, not the sort of that can only afford of people that can only afford to rent and if you have fewer

rental properties in the market, then they're going to the then they're going to be the ones and they're not ones that suffer and they're not going be a position if going to be in a position if they can't someone to rent they can't find someone to rent to a even if to instead buy a house, even if house come back. of house prices come back. of course, home owner is course, the new home owner is someone who's left the rental market you market as well. right. so you have a home that's leaving the private rental sector and a household leaving household that's leaving the private rented sector because they've then now home owners instead. yeah. i mean, ijust the problem we face in this country is a lack of a lack of houses to buy. right. so, well, this isn't going to solve that problem. it's going to make it worse. we all agree the worse. we all agree that the answer to so much of these ills is build houses. let me is to build more houses. let me ask this. do think ask you this. who do you think should be able to buy said houses because and is houses because and this is i accept that this is worse in bigger cities . so yeah london's bigger cities. so yeah london's manchester's except manchester's whatever except that output nursery. so that baraka output nursery. so you drive around on a night and it's the same houses pitch black did it out of that so should foreign investors be able to buy uk property? yeah, i don't see why so don't have any why not. so you don't have any concern with some random

investor and i don't know . let's investor and i don't know. let's just pick hong kong buying off plan new build property, perhaps see this as empty as an asset to appreciate or whatever. that's okay. if you . well, i don't okay. if you. well, i don't think we should intervene in the market to make life more difficult for foreign investors . i don't see how that will ultimately benefit people in the long run. so you're happy with that scenario ? would you be that scenario? would you be happy with bank? it's quite clear how it would benefit people the long run to people in the long run to control that. right. so i'm not that fast. it's an that fast. if it's an international a very international investor or a very wealthy but wealthy british investor. but the you very the problem is if you have very wealthy in wealthy people and we live in a very unequal society , so they're very unequal society, so they're all wealthy they all very wealthy people, they want to put their money in a safe asset. so what do they do? they flat and they they buy up a flat and they might it empty might leave it empty to appreciate value. that is appreciate in value. now that is appreciate in value. now that is a will that actively a active will that actively disadvantages renters because that's taken a property off the market that have market that could have been lived so you think that lived in. so if you think that landlord's setting up and leaving damages leaving the market damages renters, also have renters, i think you also have to that a foreign to accept that a foreign investor buying and investor buying a house and leaving empty, that will also

leaving it empty, that will also damage rent because you're taking property the taking a property off the market. i think the real difficulty suppose difficulty let's suppose a labour government has a policy of forcing foreign investors who own here but aren't own property here but aren't british nationals to sell their properties . that will british nationals to sell their properties. that will undermine the rule of law. the reason if you change the law in particular, well , people of particular, well, people of countries do have limits on whether or not foreign. but i think investors tend to switch and invest in houses, switch the goalposts on foreign investors to first of all, encourage them to first of all, encourage them to in property because to invest in property because property safer and because property is safer and because they know the laws aren't going to penalise them. if to change to penalise them. if they property then they do buy property to then change the and say, change the law and say, actually, we're to actually, we're going to confiscate property, we're confiscate that property, we're going it at going to force you to sell it at a particularly reduced rate. that's discourage that's going to discourage people from investing in our country. we want discourage it's going to discourage businessmen from setting up businesses here. we pride ourselves, particularly in london , in respecting the in london, in respecting the rule of law . to me, that would rule of law. to me, that would discourage overseas investors. i think that's two kinds of investment. kind investment. so there's one kind of goes into of investment which goes into productive assets, which goes

into produce into businesses which produce stuff investment stuff that's good investment because new stuff. because it creates new stuff. there's investment into there's also investment into stuff exists. the stuff which already exists. the house already exist and all house is already exist and all that is inflate the prices that does is inflate the prices of assets , existing of existing assets, existing houses, that's bad houses, and actually that's bad for us. i don't want international investors investing in already existing properties because all does properties because all that does is prices so you're is drive up prices. so if you're a regular viewer to this programme, you'll notice very, very, very rare for me to be on the fence with an issue, but this situation, really this housing situation, i really can see both of it because can see both sides of it because at my heart, i'm a capitalist. i think why not have property as an investment, as an asset and all the rest it, but on the all the rest of it, but on the flip side of that, i can see that there were just scores of particularly people particularly younger people these days that simply, no matter they work , that matter how hard they work, that is they will never is not possible. they will never own their own home unless something drastically changes. what that drastic change? i what is that drastic change? i ask you, chris says, in europe, most people rent . rent ask you, chris says, in europe, most people rent. rent is controls of apps. we should learn clive oh, learn from them. clive oh, you're talking about different subject. well, come onto that one in a minute. paul says as a

past landlord, we had the tenants from hell and we were also let down by the law . so why also let down by the law. so why is it that there's this notion that landlords are perhaps bad and perhaps good ? and tenants are perhaps good? linda says, i'm lucky i've got a fantastic landlord. i've not my rents rise since i moved in five years ago . she feels sorry for years ago. she feels sorry for any renters that have got bad landlords. steve says. at the moment, michelle, i can be asked to leave with one month's notice . we have a constant stream of randomness, he says. coming round for viewings, it doesn't feel like home. it makes him anxious , he says. i can anxious, he says. i can understand that feeling . lots of understand that feeling. lots of you are divided on that one. it's an issue that will rumble on. let's be honest, it seems that no one really has the answer because if they did, we wouldn't have the situation that we have now, is really the we have now, which is really the haves have nots. your haves and the have nots. your thoughts an thoughts on if there is an answer? what is it going take answer? what is it going to take answer? what is it going to take a quick break. when i come back, i want to talk about what i want to talk to you about what i want to talk to you about what i say. it's quite a sense i would say. it's quite a sense to subject actually assisted die is today . do

to subject actually assisted die is today. do you is being debated today. do you think the uk should change its laws and legal is in this country? your thoughts and i'll see you into .

hi there michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company writes fruitful 7:00 tonight alongside me toby young is the director of the free speech union and michael walker is a contributor editor at novara media. welcome back, everybody says you're talking about landlords due to losing three good work pensions after redundancy . one bad tenant after redundancy. one bad tenant wipes out every profits, every penny of profits , she says the penny of profits, she says the towering owes with the same brush, i.e. nasty landlords, she says, is dreadful. keep your thoughts coming in on the old housing crisis . how do you solve housing crisis. how do you solve it in this country? because

let's face in our has got a little bit out of control elements moving on the labour tried to legalise euthanasia back in 2013 says the current law is a mess. as he launched a parliamentary inquiry into assisted dying , the health and assisted dying, the health and social care committee's hearing evidence on the issue and i need to be clear assisted dying does remain a legal here. toby young, do you think it's high time now that life moved on and that actually assisted dying is made legal ? no, i don't. i don't . one legal? no, i don't. i don't. one of my concerns is that if you make assisted dying legal, you make assisted dying legal, you make older people very vulnerable to being browbeaten by their greed . children who by their greed. children who want to shuffle them off their mortal coil so they can inherit their estates. i don't think that's a huge risk, but i think it's a risk and i think it's something we have to be mindful of. in addition, i'm worried about people who aren't suffering from terminal diseases. quality life diseases. is quality of life hasn't to the point hasn't declined to the point where they want to end their lives. younger people who might think , oh, well, we live in such

think, oh, well, we live in such bleak , pessimistic times. the bleak, pessimistic times. the planet is about to catch fire. we're all going to die in flash floods . i we're all going to die in flash floods. i might as well end my life. there's much and life. there's so much doom and gloom, much catastrophizing gloom, so much catastrophizing amongst generation . amongst the younger generation. so i'm worried if you make so i'm worried that if you make assisted much easier, they assisted dying much easier, they may advantage of it. and may take advantage of it. and that's not so fanciful canada that's not so fanciful in canada , you compare , for instance, if you compare the number of people that took advantage assisted dying in advantage of assisted dying in 2010 to 2020 with 2021, it's increased and increased in the space one year by 34. more space of one year by 34. more than 10,000 people took advantage of assisted dying in canada in 2021. that's alarming to me . so you have a fear that to me. so you have a fear that it could be abuse and that, as what i'm hearing, is what's driving your kind of resistance to legalising it. but what about don't you think that the basic premise of actually , it's for me premise of actually, it's for me to decide when i've had enough, it's for me to decide when my suffering is too much. that is my right as a human being. don't you think that trumps. my right as a human being. don't you think that trumps . oh yeah. you think that trumps. oh yeah. over that there might be some random greedy family. yeah, but

you are, there are you know there are, there are only few circumstances in only very few circumstances in which if you decide that you want to end your life for whatever reason, that you can't do it, that you need assistance . i mean, you can google on the internet how to end your life with a combination of drugs which aren't that difficult to get, particularly on the internet in some cases. i mean, we have kind of unofficial assisted dying takes place in hospitals all the time. doctors decide in consultation with patients to increase their morphine dose if they're suffering from terminal cancer, knowing that that's likely to accelerate that. and they use various drugs in care homes to me, it happens. i don't think we need to formally legalise it because my worry then is that it would happen on a much bigger scale and it'll be subject to abuse. i mean , this is abuse. michael i mean, this is an issue i genuinely sit on the fence. i don't think we fence. i mean, i don't think we should sort of minimise the problem currently stands. problem as it currently stands. i you suggest we i mean, you suggest why can't we just people it outside of just let people do it outside of the think problem

the law and i think the problem there adds sort of this there is it adds sort of this double of trauma. so i double whammy of trauma. so i think you have all the people, especially think you have all the people, especianne of the person couple, one of the person is terminally you've terminally ill. you're you've got horrible to got this horrible decision to make. suffering . they make. they're suffering. they want to die. i help them die? want to die. do i help them die? and then if make that and then if you make that decision, is an decision, which i think is an honourable make, you honourable one to make, then you go courts. yes, go for the courts. and yes, judges let people but judges often let people off. but i seems to me that i mean, it seems to me that you're compounding trauma on top of reason i on of trauma. the reason i am on the fence, though, and why i think there's genuine, strong think there's a genuine, strong argument euthanasia, think there's a genuine, strong argu aent euthanasia, think there's a genuine, strong argu a genuine,|thanasia, think there's a genuine, strong argu a genuine, strongia, think there's a genuine, strong argu a genuine, strong argument also a genuine, strong argument against. the against. it's partly for the reasons , sort you reasons you've said, sort of you might children might have nefarious children who parents to go so who want their parents to go so they but who want their parents to go so tithink but who want their parents to go so tithink they'll but who want their parents to go so tithink they'll probably but who want their parents to go so tithink they'll probably be i think they'll probably also be a more subtle pressure, which is that have parents or that you might have parents or anyone who's sort of terminally chronically who to chronically ill who starts to think, am i a burden on my family? feel if family? and they feel guilty if they haven't gone for assisted dying . and so my concern would dying. and so my concern would be that you add a new layer of guilt and stress on people at a time where they're already experiencing quite a lot of guilt and stress . so, i mean, i guilt and stress. so, i mean, i wonder if that's some sort of technocratic way or sort of what

we law so well we can plan this law so well that we get the good bits, but not the bad bits, but yeah, i genuinely think this is a difficult one. it's not difficult one. it's not difficult for me . absolutely difficult for me. i'm absolutely in this . i difficult for me. i'm absolutely in this. i think it's in favour of this. i think it's inhumane actually that people can have the choice when they want to die in the way that they want to die in the way that they want to die in the way that they want to die. one of my view is when such as colin sort of said michelle, my wife has been in terrible pain and continuous shaking for the last six years. doctors have been unable to control her problems and she regularly asks kill her. regularly asks me to kill her. she desperately needs to be free of this life. but society insists that she must suffer to the end. i've got to say, events that has just given me goose bumps and you slope you some out for me anyway. why this should be legalised to allow people to make their own choice for them and for their loved ones, jackie says. assisted dying michel will be used to murder people and then they will say , but it's then they will say, but it's what they wanted. jackie people murder people already . they

murder people already. they don't need assisted dying laws to enable that. why would you want people to suffer? why you wouldn't let a dog suffer it wouldn't let a dog suffer it wouldn't be murder if you legalised assisted dying. but to put a hard case to you, michel, you think that if someone has decided and they're in sound mind , that for whatever reason, mind, that for whatever reason, they want to end their life, why should we stand their way? should we stand in their way? it's to stand in their it's inhumane to stand in their way person is a way. what if that person is a teenager? what if person is teenager? what if that person is your teenage child? well your own teenage child? well they're suffering from a depressive . well, they depressive episode. well, they want their lives . you want to end their lives. you think should be able think they should be able to? well, can speak with real well, i can speak with real world experience and i apologise to she will be to my mum because she will be watching this, but my mum will be aware and spoken about be aware and i've spoken about this. for years, decades this. i lived for years, decades wanting to die. absolutely adamant that i didn't want to be here and it was absolutely horrendous and a few of ask me anything i would have insisted i was of sound mind. it was an absurd session. it dominated every minute of every day of my

life. it was awful. and the reason i didn't end my life was because i didn't want to cause upset to my mum. but i sat down with my mom and explained to my mom to and my family that i didn't want to be here. animals absolutely resolute my absolutely resolute in my thinking this thinking and perhaps if this opportunity available me, opportunity was available to me, perhaps i might have done so . we perhaps i might have done so. we fast forward and now i realise i was ill. i had what has been a diagnosis suicidal ideation and i understand now that a well mind a well mind doesn't want to die in a well mine doesn't obsess with suicide so i would try desperately if anyone and if anyone is in this situation, by the way, this mental health does affect everybody . if you're in affect everybody. if you're in that situation , you know, i that situation, you know, i would ask anyone to speak and seek help. even the is hard because you're convinced that you're sane minded. but now i realise i wasn't so i understand. i understand what your your saying is and i would say to anyone, i would do

anything now to live . i would do anything now to live. i would do anything now to live. i would do anything now to live. i would do anything now to live. i've got a little boy. i would do anything to live and that a very to live and that is a very departure, a strong departure from was. me know from where i was. let me know your on because your thoughts on that, because it opinion. it's got it does divide opinion. it's got a lot of emotion attached to it and will affect some of you and it will affect some of you at home. might be watching at home. you might be watching this you know, like vince, this and you know, like vince, the be the view that you might be in a situation where the outcome of this really will affect your family. what do you think the outcome should be, though? should legalised in this should it be legalised in this country or not? i'm going to take a quick break. if you're affected, by the way, issues affected, by the way, the issues i've just been describing do seek help. there's so many people out there can help us. i'm going take quick break. i'm going to take a quick break. when come back, i to talk when i come back, i want to talk about lunacy of west about the lunacy of west yorkshire , so i'll tell yorkshire police, so i'll tell you a couple minutes . you why. a couple of minutes. don't anywhere .

hello there. i'm michelle

dewberry and i'm keeping you company at home till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, toby young is the director of free speech union and michael walker, a new face. very welcome tonight, contributing editor at novara media. welcome back , novara media. welcome back, everybody. now i have to raise this story because it was something that actually stopped me in my tracks , if you follow me in my tracks, if you follow me in my tracks, if you follow me on twitter, you'll know why you don't follow me on twitter. you're missing out, quite frankly. what can but frankly. what can i say? but anyway , there was this story anyway, there was this story that caught my and it was a west yorkshire place. you remember those people because that was the force that was involved in that year old. and the that whole 14 year old. and the crime get me started on crime don't get me started on that anyway they've that one. anyway they've released statement, that released a statement, say that a woman being jailed nine woman being jailed for nine years imprisonment, years for false imprisonment, assault against assault and robbery against their . that woman was their partner. that woman was a 56 year old biologic cool male who'd been previously convicted of rape . now, can i get of rape. now, can i get a picture up of this individual ? picture up of this individual? if i can, i would very much like to share it with you . if you're

to share it with you. if you're not. look, if you're listening rather than watching. so you don't know what i'm talking about, what that is a man . full about, what that is a man. full stop , michael, about, what that is a man. full stop , michael , why do about, what that is a man. full stop , michael, why do you think stop, michael, why do you think or do you think it might? i don't want projects onto you because you might disagree with me. do you think it matters when you have situation that is a you have a situation that is a man on the screen ? not only is man on the screen? not only is it a man, it's a man that's raped somebody and is now horrendous things . and to me, it horrendous things. and to me, it matters that a law enforcement bodies referring to that man as a woman, she her. does it matter to you? well i mean, i think there's a number of things to say about this, mean we don't know about this person's life now. we live a society where trans people exist right . so trans people exist right. so just in the way that sort of just in in the way that sort of in the 1960s or before that, people think that gay people didn't think that gay people didn't think that gay people were natural. people existed or were natural. and very comfortable and now we're very comfortable with are with the fact that there are lots around. lots of gay people around. i think similar stage

think we're in a similar stage when to trans people. when it comes to trans people. now, a are having now, we as a society are having a conversation. what makes someone a woman? know, if someone a woman? you know, if someone a woman? you know, if someone someone if someone someone is someone if someone was biologically was born biologically women, it's obvious what makes it's very obvious what makes someone woman. someone is someone a woman. if someone is trans, know, trans trans, i think, you know, trans people have to take people exist. we have to take them seriously. what makes someone there's an someone a woman? now there's an argument itself in. so it's saying make sure saying you're a woman. make sure woman argument woman there's another argument that you need a diagnosis of gender from your gender dysphoria from your doctor . and i gender dysphoria from your doctor. and i think one one tool we definitely shouldn't use for assessing whether someone is a woman is just looking at them. right. because if you are a trans woman passing, i think is something which causes a passing . can you be perceived as the gender that you now identify as? i think ? that causes a lot of i think? that causes a lot of trauma in and of itself. obviously, the younger you transition, the easier it is for you the other gender. you to pass as the other gender. the money have, the more money you have, the easier to pass the easier it is to pass as the other because can get other gender because you can get surgery, so i think surgery, etc. so i do think there's danger and also there's a danger there. and also just step back, just to take a step back, i think probably a that think it probably a shame that we're this conversation, we're having this conversation, which serious one. which i think is a serious one.

it be had. but in the it needs to be had. but in the context of a rapist, right now, obviously, i think quite rightly, there's lots of policy debates and discussions going at the moment about trans rights because, there are because, you know, there are policies that people want to change. think there are change. and i think there are genuine comes genuine conflicts when it comes to, or prisons. to, say, sports or prisons. but i a problem if the i do think it's a problem if the media is constantly highlighting particular criminals in a particular criminals in a particular minority group. and i think we recognised that when it came to two gay people, when there was a moral panic about gay dogs in the 1980s. i think we ethnic we recognise that about ethnic minorities . if sort of you have minorities. if sort of you have newspapers that were constantly just there somewhat just any time there was somewhat of an ethnic minority who committed a crime saying this person ethnic minority committed a crime saying this perscommittedethnic minority committed a crime saying this perscommittedeticrimeinority committed a crime saying this perscommittedeticrime andty committed a crime saying this perscommittedeticrime and think has committed a crime and think it's clear that can a pretty it's clear how that can a pretty hateful environment. now this is not to say that i think all of your concerns about who is and who isn't a woman are completely bigoted or unjustified. i'm just saying, isn't saying, i think this isn't necessarily way to have necessarily the best way to have this discussion context this discussion in the context of who's committed of this person who's committed such awful crime. i have got lots i want to say to you. lots i want to say back to you. but i do, toby young, you

but before i do, toby young, you also i think that the also it's yeah, i think that the reason this has become such a heated discussion is because when you refer to a trans woman as him or he they hear it as hate speech, they hear it as transfer phobia, as a denial of their existing as an attempt to embrace them , an act of real embrace them, an act of real brutal hostility. but to people who believe that sex is binary and immutable , for them it's and immutable, for them it's just an expression . what they just an expression. what they believe. they can believe that for a variety of reasons, because they're a muslim or because they're a muslim or because they're a muslim or because they're an orthodox christian, or because they studied biology for whatever reason, because they defend us of sex based women's rights . and of sex based women's rights. and i think we have to get away from this so spoke this idea that if you so spoke so—called ms. gender or did name a trans woman or a trans man, that that's somehow disrespectful, that that's somehow an expression of irrational hatred for trans people. it's not you can still believe that trans people should have rights and those rights

should be respected without necessarily going along with this notion that they can they can change sex because they identify as a different sex to their biological. i mean, i think i wouldn't want to describe that person as a woman. i wouldn't want to refer to him as she or her. it just seems to me to be patently absurd. but to see the authority is siding with the trans rights activists, even though the majority of people do think that sex is binary in image. but whether it's the bbc, the police, i recently appeared as a defence witness and defence witness or submitted evidence anyway in a case in which an evangelical street preacher had been prosecuted, charged with a pubuc been prosecuted, charged with a public order offence for supposed misgendering a trans woman who was heckling him in leeds city centre and he was convicted . eventually that convicted. eventually that conviction was overturned on appeal. but we can't have . the appeal. but we can't have. the authorities insisting compelling us to essentially affirm what is a pretty extreme ideological

position. any more than we can have the authorities say whenever. you use the word the prophet muhammad , you have to prophet muhammad, you have to follow that with peace. be upon him. going to live him. if we're going to live together we compel people together, we can't compel people who aren't members of our community, who aren't members of our tribe to respect our taboos, our tribe to respect our taboos, our sacred values are blasphemy rules . we have to be a little rules. we have to be a little bit more liberal, little bit more liberal, a little bit more live let live than more live and let live than that. i think this is that. yeah. see, i think this is a crucially important conversation to have because you've got a law body for the first and foremost, just be clear, i reject the notion of self. i don't if that's what you want to do with your self, about your own gender, whatever. when it comes to the eyes of the law, the laws of the land , you know, the laws of the land, you know, to me your self identification is for the better. it's really facts matter to when i have a police force telling me, oh, this woman is doing this and this woman is doing this and this woman is doing this and this woman has done that, it's not true. it's not true . so if not true. it's not true. so if this man so identified as

innocent , well, the police take innocent, well, the police take that as well or something, then the facts matter because he's not innocent after all. where's the cut off point? the the cut off point? where's the line? i line? well, this is where i think facts matter . but line? well, this is where i think facts matter. but i do think facts do matter. but i do think facts do matter. but i do think there's a of think that there's a lot of evidence that the same evidence that just in the same way i was born gay. right. way that i was born gay. right. some born trans. and some people are born trans. and so it's not just, oh, so therefore, it's not just, oh, this is a man who randomly decided to become a woman or who's woman. who's pretending to be a woman. i is a biological i think there is a biological reality fact that reality to the fact that trans people right. i think people exist. right. and i think probably in a couple of decades or so will be socially or so that will be socially accepted in the same way that people gay people now accept that gay people now accept that gay people people to people exist. people used to think unnatural . that think that was unnatural. that sort was are sort of reality was men are supposed women , supposed to get with women, women to get with women are supposed to get with men. actually understand, men. now we actually understand, oh, more oh, life's a bit more complicated i complicated than that. and i think we will get to think we probably will get to somewhere when it somewhere like that when it comes gender. well, tell comes to gender. well, i'll tell you to get to, which you what i need to get to, which is break, but just to be clear, i don't deny that people i don't deny that trans people exist at all. but i think that this is a very important conversation to be had and therefore , i will continue this

therefore, i will continue this after the break. you give me your thoughts on the whole thing, and see you .

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with heating bills and more, plus up to £900 in cost of living payments. in two. hi there. i'm michelle dewberry, keeping you company. so 7:00 tonight alongside me, toby young is the director of free speech union. michael walker is union. and michael walker is a contributing at the contributing editor at the foreign welcome back , foreign media. welcome back, everybody. we've just been about a subject that caught my which was west yorkshire police describing this guy basically thatis describing this guy basically that is an awful crimes as a woman and why i'm concerned and why i think it's problematic i do just want to pick up on something that you said before we went to the break. you described as a woman and described me as a woman and i really notion in really reject that notion in that all of a sudden to incorporate this group of people i now have to have this kind of label attached to me. i reject

that notion. yeah. i mean , i that notion. yeah. i mean, i suppose why what? because what seems i'm a woman and what happens and i must be honest, it's mainly men that trot out this sentence trans women are women and they say really fast. and then you've got to move on. and then you've got to move on. and if you do about an hour longer, i'm going to mean it. then you are, you know, vilified. you're called all kinds but i'm a woman kinds of names. but i'm a woman you a gown that you womanhood is not a gown that you womanhood is not a gown that you then shove on when you wake up in the morning and go to today. i'm a woman and then you take off your gown and then your pants, whatever, whatever. it's not like that. being a woman is a physical reality gives me a benefit and a strength and an advantage that no offence to you too. you won't have as men. it gives me providing all my bits work properly and ability to have the greatest gift on life, which is to grow my own child, to feed my own child . and it is to feed my own child. and it is a beautiful world, a full gift and some guy declaring today i'm

in transferred doesn't actually fill me with great confidence and it certainly doesn't make me feel that what i need to do is have this label attached to me in order to accommodate , said in order to accommodate, said guy. yeah, i suppose that i want to talk to your feelings about any particular world. i mean, i can imagine also having a similar i don't want to be a straight man. i'm just a man, right? more right? when we get a more complicated about identity, complicated idea about identity, often a to often you have to add a word to distinguish from other distinguish people from other people. but in terms your people. but in terms of your argument of being argument about sort of being a woman, sort of physical woman, is sort of a physical reality it matters. it's not reality and it matters. it's not just identity not a just an identity is not just a decision . i 100% agree with you. decision. i 100% agree with you. 100% with you on that. 100% agree with you on that. i don't saying i'm a gay man makes me a gay man. i think it's how how i live my practise. right and think the same really is and i think the same really is now emerging to be the case when it comes to gender. i think there are people who were born with who genuinely don't with penises who genuinely don't really fit the body they were born in. right. and i have trans friends, you know, they knew

this from such a young age in, the same way that i knew i was gay from such a young age. i really don't think it is just on a whim, people saying, oh, by the trans and if i the way, i'm trans and if i really believed that this was just on whim saying, just people on a whim saying, oh, way, i'm trans, and oh, by the way, i'm trans, and probably wouldn't the probably i wouldn't believe the me saying i feel like probably i wouldn't believe the nam saying i feel like probably i wouldn't believe the nam a saying i feel like probably i wouldn't believe the nam a woman saying i feel like probably i wouldn't believe the nam a woman andiying i feel like probably i wouldn't believe the nam a woman and therefore l like probably i wouldn't believe the nam a woman and therefore i like probably i wouldn't believe the nam a woman and therefore i am i am a woman and therefore i am like i reject notion like like i reject the notion of like you you said, you say earlier on, you said, oh, know, if you self as a oh, you know, if you self as a woman, you can sell ideas on what your self ten times a day if want. i don't really if you want. i don't really care, but what we're talking about now a fund. the mental about now is a fund. the mental attempt restructure society attempt to restructure society in way that we know it in in the way that we know it in a way that is perhaps kept. a lot of ladies, girls or women safe over many years is an erosion of that. and a lot of it is based on fantasy and not facts. was i mean, in terms of self body, i'm quite open minded about self esteem. i think this is sort of a policy question. i don't think saying you're woman makes you saying you're a woman makes you a as i don't think a woman, just as i don't think saying makes me gay. but saying i'm gay makes me gay. but to honest, i think probably to be honest, i think probably the best way to find out if i'm gay not to put a

gay is, to ask me not to put a cctv in my bedroom. and cctv camera in my bedroom. and i think look at trans think you can look at trans gender people in a similar way. are you conflating sexuality with a biological reality? this is the bit that i find peculiar andifs is the bit that i find peculiar and it's almost to me is an attempt to try and paint someone as bigoted. oh, was loads as bigoted. oh, there was loads abuse gay people in abuse towards gay people in whatever decade and now this is the me that completely the thing to me that completely different things. you've got your sexuality you've got your gender and then you've got your biological sex, which in my mind , look, i accept there's different opinions. i'm not necessarily and everyone necessarily right and everyone else this is my else is wrong, but this is my view to me that it's just binary is, is indisputable science reality. yeah, i think i think that there's yeah. you often hear this parallel between the gay rights movement and the trans rights movement, but i think they are very different. i mean, thing, are mean, for one thing, there are many in our many more gay people in our society than there are trans people. the recent census found that trans people were no that the trans people were no more than 0.5% of the entire population . it's also there's a population. it's also there's a requirement that we upend everything we admit trans women

into women's changing rooms . we into women's changing rooms. we allow them to compete against biological women's biological and women's sports, including rugby and ultimate fighting . you know, that demands fighting. you know, that demands a much more ambitious and much more aggressive id than the demands of the gay rights movement. here's critical movement. but here's a critical difference. rights difference. the gay rights movement winning movement went about winning those rights in in a really effective way. they made the case in the public square. they argued they took on bigots intellectually , early on intellectually, early on platforms. they debated with them the attitude of the trans rights activists is no debate. if you don't agree with every jot and tittle of my ideology, then you're a tough a bigot. you're a transfer . then you're a tough a bigot. you're a transfer. i don't then you're a tough a bigot. you're a transfer . i don't want you're a transfer. i don't want to talk to you. i'm not going to share a platform with you that doesn't if want to doesn't work. if you want to secure better representation, if you want trans rights to be more widely respected, if you want trans people to be live trans people to be able to live a full life in which they can fully express themselves and be themselves, trans rights themselves, the trans rights movement is going about it in exactly the wrong look at exactly the wrong way. look at what new zealand what happened in new zealand at

the the moping of the weekend with the moping of kelly keane. it happened to kelly j. keane. it happened to happened hyde corner on happened at hyde park corner on sunday. the trans rights and their allies are so aggressive , their allies are so aggressive, so belligerent, so entrenched in demanding that everyone respect their gender pronouns, it it's just not the way to go about achieving their objective of making society a friendlier place for them. why don't they take a leaf out of the gay rights movement and behave more like that? you know what? like that? well, you know what? this is, again, one of those issues where not to issues where not going to conclude just a minutes conclude in just a minutes on this conversation this program, this conversation will rumble on and on. but as long as can respectfully long as we can respectfully debate these matters, i think that can only be a positive thing . lots of, you know, thing. lots of, you know, getting in touch on that kind of housing issue as well, celebrating that you're all saying many of you have good landlords. that's brilliant , landlords. that's brilliant, divided. i think this trans issue for me, i just think facts matter . that's issue for me, i just think facts matter. that's all i can say. i want to end on that on that moment. michael kirby, thank you very much for your company.

thank guys. i hope all thank you, guys. i hope we all managed fall off our managed to not fall off our store. bernie well, store. so bernie and well, don always night. always have a fantastic night. i'll tomorrow. hello i'll see you tomorrow. hello again. it's aidan mcgivern here from met office lots of from the met office lots of cloud for the cloud sticking around for the next 24 hours. showery rain at times as well, especially the north and the west. but it will be mild. the air at the moment coming in from the southwest it's around area it's circulating around an area of which will of low pressure which will dominate things out of the atlantic the next few atlantic through the next few days. there's already sent an set fronts through set of weather fronts through those fronts now clearing , which those fronts now clearing, which means that overnight the more persist and spells of damp weather confined to the north of scotland, further scotland, but they'll be further showery the west of showery right into the west of scotland hours, scotland by the early hours, then into northern ireland and southwestern parts . in between southwestern parts. in between a lot of cloud, that cloud covering the hills, it's going to be quite low, murky and temperatures staying at 6 to 9 cells. yes. so a mild, if rather gloomy start to wednesday. there'll be some cloud breaks through the midlands into parts of eastern england at times, but otherwise it's generally grey

and further damp weather will come through , especially in the come through, especially in the south, the west and across scotland. then into the afternoon, some brighter skies developing will lead to higher temperatures 5016, perhaps even 17 celsius. but the rain will never be too far away . in fact, never be too far away. in fact, the rain becomes heavier and more persistent through wales in the southwest by evening that spreads midlands , spreads into the midlands, eastern and northern england and some will arrive some heavy showers will arrive into scotland as into western scotland as well as northern. wet spell for northern. so a wet spell for most of end the day on most of us as we end the day on wednesday into early wednesday and go into the early hours before it hours of thursday before it tends become a bit drier once tends to become a bit drier once again. but keep the cloud cover andifs again. but keep the cloud cover and it's going to be another frost free, rather start to frost free, rather mild start to thursday some brightness once again through , the midlands, again through, the midlands, east anglia, north—east to scotland perhaps although shetland to see a spell shetland likely to see a spell of wet and windy weather continuing through thursday . continuing through thursday. otherwise it's day of sunny otherwise it's a day of sunny spells and lively showers hail and thunder couldn't be ruled out. and actually in between the showers there'll be some sunshine with temperatures reaching 16 or 17 celsius into

friday. some wet and windy weather to come .

is the governor of the bank of england right to say that early retirement is forcing up inflation? all the labour party right to try and copy joe biden and to out green the tories ahead of the next general election. we find out the truth about what happened in the uk with clashes outside with violent clashes outside a migrant hotel. a couple of days ago. also ask how severe is ago. we also ask how severe is the terrorist risk in northern ireland? and joining me on talking points, one of britain's most recognised civil sportsmen, duncan goodhew mba . but before duncan goodhew mba. but before that very full menu . let's get that very full menu. let's get more news with polly middlehurst