this is dewbs& c0 the head of the office for budget responds stability says that brexit is apparently not 4% of britain's long term growth. what do you think to that? some are saying that's why we should never have doneitin that's why we should never have done it in the first place. oh, there's a saying i'll shut out. what do you expect? we've got a massive pandemic in between. how was it ever going to be a success? and they still stand by it. what says you ? and these low it. what says you? and these low traffic networks are basically just a war on cars, if you ask me. well, over in rochdale, they

were having absolutely none of it. they basically and i don't condone this by the way, but they've set fire to these blocks . and it's got me wondering, is it all going a little bit too far? what is wrong with people having the old decency to use that cars if they actually want to drive around their own neighbourhood ? and we've had so neighbourhood? and we've had so much , haven't we, in recent much, haven't we, in recent years about racism. well, let me ask you this. do you think it's right to be teaching critical race theory in primary schools? what do you think ? is that just what do you think? is that just making children more or less aware of their race is a good thing? is it going to help the ills in society, or perhaps make them worse? your thoughts on all of that. but before we get into it, let's bring ourselves up to speed with tonight's latest headunes. speed with tonight's latest headlines . michelle, thank you headlines. michelle, thank you and good evening to you. the top stories from the gb newsroom.

the immigration minister has announced plans to stop housing asylum seekers in hotels and instead place them in disuse . instead place them in disuse. used military bases , admitting used military bases, admitting that the use of hotels had harmed some towns , robert harmed some towns, robert jenrick said migrants will now be placed in sites in essex , be placed in sites in essex, lincolnshire and east sussex. the accommodation will be guarded by 24 hour security and meet migrants. essential living needs and nothing more . more needs and nothing more. more than 1000 asylum seekers will also be housed at a former prison site. these hotels take valuable assets from communities and place pressures on local pubuc and place pressures on local public services . seaside towns public services. seaside towns have lost tourist trade. weddings have been cancelled , weddings have been cancelled, and local councils have had their resources diverted to manage them. and the hard working british taxpayer has been left to foot. the eye—watering . £23 billion a eye—watering. £23 billion a year bill. madam deputy speaker,

we must not elevate the well—being of illegal migrants above those of the british people . well, today, the people. well, today, the chancellor has been facing questions by the treasury select committee over his spring budget. jeremy hunt says the unexpected increase in inflation last month shows there can be no complacency about rising prices . when asked about the mini—budget which caused market chaos , he said wrong decisions chaos, he said wrong decisions had been made . there were some had been made. there were some mistakes in the mini—budget which we had to reverse and in particular i think it's clear you can't fund tax cuts through increased borrowing. so that's a thatis increased borrowing. so that's a that is a clear thing that we changed course . on. now, changed course. on. now, scotland's first minister has vowed that could not be more unity in the snp as he unveiled his first cabinet. humza yousaf says scotland's government should look like the people it represents and that he's proud

to have a record number of women agreeing to serve. the 37 year old has described the appointments as the biggest reshuffle since two thousand and seven, saying they reflect his commitment to a radical, ambitious and progressive agenda for the country . ambitious and progressive agenda for the country. immediate priority will be to tackle the cost of living crisis, to make sure we continue to invest and our public services and to progress our wellbeing economy, our economy that is going to be the team that is going to help me to deliver that. a number of new faces, some real energy and also a mix of experience as well . and that cabinet that i hope to lead . it's emerged that the to lead. it's emerged that the prime minister's wife is a shareholder in a childcare agency that's set to benefit from a new policy announced in the chancellor's budget. the scheme will incentive childminders to join the profession with payments of £600, which doubles if they sign up through an agency. rishi sunak didn't mention his wife's

links to an agency when asked why the policy favoured private firms. well, the liberal democrats say it raises serious questions around ethics , but the questions around ethics, but the prime minister says all of his disclosures have been declared in the usual way. disclosures have been declared in the usual way . julian knight in the usual way. julian knight claims he's the victim of a witch hunt after the conservative party refused to reinstate the whip over further complaints made about him. earlier, the mp for solihull demanded the whip be reinstated dead after he was cleared by police of a serious sexual assault allegation. mr. knight, who was suspended from the party over the claim , had always over the claim, had always denied the allegation , denied the allegation, describing it as false and malicious. well, the chief whip , simon hart, says these new complaints, if appropriate, will be referred to the relevant police force . the jury in the police force. the jury in the trial of the murder of nine year old olivia corbell has gone out to deliberate . 34 year old to deliberate. 34 year old thomas cashman has been accused.

manchester crown court of chasing the schoolgirl in her home in liverpool last august . home in liverpool last august. her mother was also injured dunng her mother was also injured during the incident. cashman says at the time of the shooting he was at a friend's house counting money and smoking cannabis. he denies the allegations . a man convicted of allegations. a man convicted of murdering a six year old boy almost three decades ago is preparing an appeal. last year , preparing an appeal. last year, james watson was handed a life sentence with a minimum jail term of 15 years for the murder of rikki neave in 1994. watson was 13 at the time of the killing. all three appeal judges have now concluded . the 41 year have now concluded. the 41 year old has argued grounds for challenging his conviction. the appeal hearing could be months away . the daily appeal hearing could be months away. the daily mail appeal hearing could be months away . the daily mail says the away. the daily mail says the duke of sussex is privacy claim against them should be rejected in its entirety and has been brought far to the late associated newspaper ltd. says

the legal challenges brought by prince harry and other celebrities , including sir elton celebrities, including sir elton john, have no real prospects of success. but the legal team for harry's millions have described the publisher's bid as hopeless and plainly, in a appropriate. prince harry alleges he was the victim of unlawful information gathering . and lastly, the king gathering. and lastly, the king and queen consort have been welcomed with full military honours in berlin in germany dunng honours in berlin in germany during their state visit . the during their state visit. the pair also attended a banquet hosted by germany's president . hosted by germany's president. it's charles and camilla's first foreign visit. it's heads of the royal family, but the king's 29th trip to germany , king 29th trip to germany, king charles and president steinmeier planted a tree on the schloss bellevue palace grounds in recognition of future climate agenda talks . you're up to date agenda talks. you're up to date on tv, online , dab+ radio and on on tv, online, dab+ radio and on the tunein app here with gb news, the people's channel. back now to dewbs& co .

now to dewbs& co. thanks for that, paul. i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company right through till 7:00 tonight alongside me. i've got the political commentator phillips on ben habib, the former brexit policy mep and the syria affairs property group. good evening . good evening and good evening. good evening and thank you very much barnaby, for lending me a pen again. second time, i know i don't know what i've done with mine. i've lost that. anyway, today you'll all be familiar with the sad news. of course we lost a legend , sir. of course we lost a legend, sir. we did . and i thank you all. i we did. and i thank you all. i totally agree with him. and that paul grayson was incredible comic . paul, like a little top comic. paul, like a little top tier, if you can, off this top tip from me for free if you want to pay tribute to someone who's very sadly passed away , which is

very sadly passed away, which is a kind of decent thing to do to make sure that you get the name right. paul o'grady may you rest in peace . anyway, you guys, you in peace. anyway, you guys, you know the drill, don't you? on dewbs& co? it's not just about us three here. it's very much about you at home. get in touch. all the usual ways. gbviews@gb news.uk case all the usual ways. gbviews@gbnews.uk case my email or you can tweet me at gb news. is that top story in the headunes is that top story in the headlines a second ago? ben habib just about where so—called asylum seekers will now be seeking home, whether it's military bases, there's been a lot of conversations about ferries, barges, you name it, your thoughts. well, it's absolute right that migrants entering the country illegally shouldn't be housed in hotels in local communities. i mean, that's the kind of statement of the obvious. it's a testimony to how low the political bar has become that we see it as some kind of victory that they're no longer going to be staying in hotels, or at least that policy is going change. so is going to change. so i

completely that they completely agree that they should more functional should be in more functional free accommodation suitable for people who've entered the country illegally. in no way diminishing their human rights. of course, but not giving them the kind of four star treatment that they get. and the other aspect to this, which robert jenrick on in that clip jenrick touched on in that clip , is that you know, when they get here, there's got to be some kind of deterrent associated with entering the country legally. the optic of coming here illegally and being put up in four star hotels is one that you do not want would be human smugglers picking up on. you don't want them to be publicising the fact that if you cross this channel actually once you get to the other side, it's nirvana. so i completely i completely agree with the government in its stance on that. but whether it acts as a deterrent or not, i'm very sceptic , carol, because sceptic, carol, because remember, these people are coming here very determined initially in numbers . and if initially in numbers. and if they're in a barge for a few

months. so what they're not that's not going to stop them from coming. and i think we need a much more effective tive form of border control . it's not of border control. it's not going to come through , leaving going to come through, leaving them out of four star hotels into barges. it's not going to come from rwanda. it's not going to come from the illegal migration bill. only way migration bill. the only way we're to solve this is by we're going to solve this is by proper control in us in we're going to solve this is by pr0|channel. control in us in we're going to solve this is by pr0|channel. andtrol in us in we're going to solve this is by pr0|channel. and iol in us in we're going to solve this is by pr0|channel. and i don'trs in we're going to solve this is by pr0|channel. and i don't think the channel. and i don't think that's going happen any time that's going to happen any time soon. phillips well, soon. jeff phillips well, i think, you know, all of this is fine, but it's a little bit late in the day because you've still got of 160,000 got the problem of 160,000 people have been waiting people who have been waiting in many a year , some for many cgses over a year, some for as many cases over a year, some for as long as two years to have their asylum applications processed . and that is part of processed. and that is part of the problem that it's ridiculous that spending all this that we're spending all this money keeping people in hotels , money keeping people in hotels, but if they were being processed more there probably more quickly, there are probably quite of people. and quite a lot of people. and i think the figures around 75% think the figures are around 75% of apply for asylum of people who apply for asylum actually get granted , those actually get it granted, those people could actually be working , contributing to the economy and playing a part in the local

communities and probably filling some the job vacancies that some of the job vacancies that we've got . this is fine, but we we've got. this is fine, but we know there's going to huge know there's going to be a huge battle about airfields. one of them in the foreign them is in the foreign secretary's constituency . the secretary's constituency. the former home of the dambusters . former home of the dambusters. local people don't want, you know, big detention centres because that is in effect what they are in the constituencies . they are in the constituencies. a couple of them so far are in conservative mp constituencies. so i think there's going to be battles ahead with local councils, with local residents and we still haven't got any better at processing the people who are already here. well i'll throw open to you guys what do you think to the policy announcement today? would it make a difference when it work? are you in one of the areas? and if so, what do you think about it ? let's move on because the it? let's move on because the big b word would go around the circle. what has been the impact of brexit on what will be the impact of brexit? the office for budget responsibility basically

says that brexit has been as damaging to the uk economy as the coronavirus. pandemic. reckons leaving the eu will get rid of about 4% of our gdp . rid of about 4% of our gdp. barnaby is he right? he is absolutely wrong and i think it's outrageous that someone who heads up something that's ostensibly an independent body designed to keep the government on the straight and narrow, is coming out with their own political effectively their own political effectively their own political views. this isn't the first time richard hughes has said this. he said this back in 2021. he didn't say then that it was worse than lockdowns. and i'm distinction i'm going to make a distinction between covid lockdowns. between covid and lockdowns. it's lockdowns to he's it's lockdowns to which he's really referring . he didn't really referring. he didn't he didn't then in 2021 that it didn't say then in 2021 that it was worse than lockdowns . but he was worse than lockdowns. but he did say that the economy would shnnk did say that the economy would shrink by 4. and during the course of 2021, which was the first year in which we left the eu single market, the economy actually grew by over 7. it was one of the leading growth

economies in the g7 . so he's economies in the g7. so he's fundamentally wrong at a factual level. and if you look at what happened to the economy during lockdowns , the economy did lockdowns, the economy did shnnk lockdowns, the economy did shrink within a year by 4% immediately because of lockdowns , we added 33% to the national debt , £500 , we added 33% to the national debt, £500 billion. and the after effects of those lockdowns where we're not feeling which are significant taxes at an all time high national debt at an all time high, inflation at an all time high, inflation at an all time high, the labour markets broken, the nhs broken . markets broken, the nhs broken. so richard hughes , who by the so richard hughes, who by the way, is an old member of the treasury, having worked there since the year 2000, he had a stint in the french ministry of finance. he was also at the imf for a long time. all these organisations are basically pro—remain and what richard hughesis pro—remain and what richard hughes is doing and it's incredibly irresponsible . it incredibly irresponsible. it should be called the office of budget irresponsibility after

these comments. what he's effectively doing is using his position as chairman of the opr to espouse his political views. and i actually think he should be called to task on it and he should be dismissed. but he won't , because these independent won't, because these independent bodies have no checks and balances on them. they are in power not to espouse their views without control . in short span, without control. in short span, habib is having none of it. he isn't telling. he isn't. i you . isn't telling. he isn't. i you. i think it's a shame that we can't have a grown up and sensible conversation about the effects of brexit on the economy. and i'm not saying that you're not having it. yeah, well, no, no, no, no, no. i mean, we are. but i think the problem is that people have gone no, we mustn't mention brexit. there has been a readiness to blame a lot of our economic woes on covid and the war in ukraine, both of which dr. well, lockdown the response to covid. but, you know, those things are true . but

know, those things are true. but i think a new will surely accept this pain as a businessman that the biggest thing that is the biggest anathema to business is uncertainty . and i think when we uncertainty. and i think when we went into the referendum and came out the other side of it, there was no plan. now, that was, what, 26? we had six years to work out what was going to happen when we did leave. and there was no plan. despite boris johnson's claims, that everything was going to be marvellous and it was all going to be tickety boo and boost duration. the naysayers and all the other people of inverted piffle he came out with, piffle that he came outwith, and i think it's really important for people, particularly business people, and particularly small business people, to be able to say , no, people, to be able to say, no, it's crucified me on certainty, lack of labour. we know there's a shortage of labour because a lot of people went back to european countries . the extra european countries. the extra bureaucracy , the not knowing bureaucracy, the not knowing about bureaucracy . i mean, last about bureaucracy. i mean, last week we were talking about

northern ireland and what it's done there to trade. so i think we need to have a conversation about it. i think , you know, i about it. i think, you know, i think your criticism of richard hughesis think your criticism of richard hughes is probably a little unfair, i have to say. well, i mean, i think i think it is irresponsible for someone who heads up the office of budget responsibility to be effectively espousing political views and justifying them to the economy for which no evidence. in for which he has no evidence. in fact, the evidence goes the other way because we grew, as i said, by over 7% when we left the eu single market. and that's that's affected by brexit. but he would, if he were sitting here instead of me, he would say, no, here is the evidence to say, no, here is the evidence to say, he hasn't, he hasn't he say, but he hasn't, he hasn't he hasn't a time frame on hasn't even put a time frame on how long it'll take for the economy to shrink by 4. this is a number concocted without a number he's concocted without justification, been justification, and he's been trotting it out for a couple of years added to his years and now he's added to his bag tricks. the fact that, in bag of tricks. the fact that, in his view, brexit is worse than lockdowns , nothing could be more lockdowns, nothing could be more damaging to the economy than lockdowns . national debt, up by

lockdowns. national debt, up by 33, do not underestimate the damage that has done to the united kingdom's economy. it is phenomenal. but i just want to pick up on one thing. i agree with you, joe. there was no plan and part of the problem with not having a plan is that boris johnson, with his treatment charity, did not take advantage of freedoms brexit would of all the freedoms brexit would have given us. so, for example , have given us. so, for example, we the eu statutes we have all the eu statutes still on our books that we had when we left the eu single market. we haven't diverged, we haven't deregulated. we haven't taken knee , as it were, off taken our knee, as it were, off the neck of businesses . the the neck of businesses. the private sector is still fettered . we have very high taxation on the private sector. going up next week from 19% corporation tax to 25. all these things are the kind of socialist government that you would expect in europe and not what you would expect in and not what you would expect in a first world capitalist country like the united kingdom , which like the united kingdom, which brexit did in order to jettison all that nonsense. and we haven't done it. no. and that is

down to boris johnson. agreed. and as you say, a great majority . they had plenty of time to work out what the truth is that david cameron didn't think that the vote was going to go for. he didn't think it closely. and then everybody just went , oh, then everybody just went, oh, yeah. and boris johnson said, it will be marvellous. well, it clearly hasn't been modest, but i think, you know, nobody wants to recreate and revisit those arguments because it has been so divisive for so many people . but divisive for so many people. but i do think we need to be able to have a proper conversation and look at the failings of government and not just, you know, michael gove is quoted in this article and he was responding to richard heath, but he was. no, no, no. he wouldn't even mention brexit. but actually there does need to be a little bit of reconciliation. michael gove is conflicted over taxes all over the uk because he championed brexit. well, also championed brexit. well, he also attacked during the referendum campaign . he attacked experts.

campaign. he attacked experts. do you remember he was at the fourth. johnson had to fourth. boris johnson had to articles written one for him once again and and i and once again and i and i and i agree with michael gove on the experts. i would actually aboush experts. i would actually abolish the over it was created to the expert. all of to abolish the expert. all of them. them in one room them. we put them in one room and over, you know, and say, well, over, you know, there there this there is, there is this undoubtedly a pendulum and it's swing between greater control of state and less control of state. and the pendulum is very much over towards the greater control of state. and we see that in the bonng of state. and we see that in the boring statistics, in the taxation statistics spend, you know, you say get rid of experts. no i didn't know. i didn't know this the bill, which is a new construct , it was didn't know this the bill, which is a new construct, it was only created in 2010. and they, you know, they useless. they they predicted in november last year they predicted the national debt, the deficit in 22, 23 this year would be £177 billion, three months on, four months on then now forecasting is going to

be £99 billion. so all the naysayers who said that liz truss couldn't give effect to the tax cuts she wanted to make because actually the country couldn't afford it because the national debt was out of control. she could have done it. the all got its numbers the obe all got its numbers wrong. it got them wrong by to the tune of 78 billion quid. but she didn't even go to the obe and it cost £30 billion, which people are now paying. and i would abolish the obe, so i'm going to abolish this conversation. oh i need to move on. but let me ask it. is the talking joe is referencing that david cameron said that there was no the reason that was no plan. the reason that there was no plan, as we just alluded to, is because they didn't think in a million years that brexit was going be the that brexit was going to be the outcome. the reason they outcome. and the reason they didn't that because didn't think that is because they attention to they didn't pay any attention to what i say was perhaps in what i would say was perhaps in some ways the silent majority , some ways the silent majority, the disconnected majority, those people that don't always engage in politics, because there's often this tendency to look down on those countries . one of the on those countries. one of the things that i worry about is i

feel that despite all the goings on over the last few years, that that sentiment still exists today. do you think that's fair ? do you think that's reasonable? i do think there's a bit kind of sinfulness about bit of kind of sinfulness about unless really kind of an unless you are really kind of an avid politico, then a bit you're avid politico, then a bit you're a bit stupid, you're a bit disregarded . and i really don't disregarded. and i really don't like that. and i think actually, rather looking down on rather than looking down on people are disenfranchised, people that are disenfranchised, disengaged they are disengaged, look at why they are that and seek re—engage that way. and seek to re—engage them . do you think life's moved them. do you think life's moved on from all of that's kind of centre back in 2006. it feels like a lifetime ago. it does. right. are you a car owner or are you on the opposite side of the fence? someone that lives in a neighbourhood and you desperately want it to be traffic free? low traffic neighbourhoods get on my agenda next. do you think councils are getting a little bit away with themselves, pushing little themselves, pushing it a little bit too far? your thoughts and i'll see you into .

that. a michelle dewberry keeping you company right through till 7:00 tonight. keeping me company in the studio. political commentator geoff phillips. i'm ben habib , a geoff phillips. i'm ben habib, a format brexit party mep in the sea of policy group. richard says what is that on the shelves behind you michel it's a demonstration of how multitasking us working women are. we've got all going on laptops , pots and pans, nothing laptops, pots and pans, nothing those women can't do. that's right, isn't it, joe, to see the kitchen sink? yeah, we can't hear the tumblers are the washing machine going on? we were just talking about that in the and ben habib told me the break. and ben habib told me that don't cook . cook? i that you don't cook. cook? no, i can't that's very can't cook. that's not very acceptable. they day in an acceptable. and they day in an era of a day and age of google, get your cell phone google lens, you cook a challenge. ben habib learns to cook it could bring some food in for us next week. yeah, you could . we could give yeah, you could. we could give you a recipe. you could go off

on google it, bring in a sample for us week. we could have for us next week. we could have hours of fun with a way, but actually move on to actually i do need to move on to talk about the news instead because do you have a traffic neighbourhood in your area, the popping up neighbourhood in your area, the popping up everywhere? these things. rochdale things. anyway, over in rochdale , into their , people took matters into their own hands. they were not seen, none of it just a day after the traffic filter infrastructure, which i like to call a plant pot , i think not to me. i don't think there are any more sophisticated than not. they what you see is big penalties. yeah anyway, i'll fight. yeah, we'll be professional. like if it is properly a traffic filtering infrastructure . filtering infrastructure. anyway, it was installed , it was anyway, it was installed, it was tipped over, set on fire. and i've got any images of it so don't know . if not you can, you don't know. if not you can, you can see it for yourself on google where it's very good. oh yes i have got them. anyway, it's got me wondering just a because to me this is it on your screens a lot like a darkened den, people setting fire to plant pot , saw traffic, whatever plant pot, saw traffic, whatever it was . but joe phillips in a

it was. but joe phillips in a these are popping up everywhere now , if you ask me, there is now, if you ask me, there is just a big war on motorways. this is just one small part of it. do stand on it? it. why do you stand on it? well, i certainly don't stand behind people are basically behind people who are basically carrying out mindless of carrying out mindless acts of vandalism. for sure. and vandalism. that is for sure. and we don't know whether they were vandals or whether they were protesters. i'm my book. they're both the same. the vandals who did this ? i looked up rochdale did this? i looked up rochdale city council to see what they did in terms of consultation on this. it's apparently a six month expo element, a trial. the old chestnut up at the trial that becomes i mean if anybody from rochdale council watching or listening do put me straight if i've got this wrong. but it looked to me as though there was one day back in july where people could go and hear about the plans in these two areas in this in the city with , you know, this in the city with, you know, different time slots between two and four, four and six, six and

eight, what have you, and presumably people could write in or they were emailed or speak to their local councils. i would be really interested to see the drill down into the data of that consultation , because if you're consultation, because if you're going to do something like this, you've got to do it with the community. i'm all in favour of keeping traffic out of towns as much as possible to make it safer and easier for people to walk around to cycle. you know , walk around to cycle. you know, i absolutely loathe people who park on pavements, but you know, you've just seen the footage of emergency vehicles getting there. how do ambulances and fire engines get round these things? ben and i were talking earlier about this. there's a road in london which had got more road humps than anywhere else. i think in the whole country, which may well have been removed by now. but the ambulance service used to have to go away way round that to get to go away way round that to get to hospital , because can you to hospital, because can you imagine being not very well in the back of an ambulance going over that? you said, by the way,

i'm all in favour of taking or keeping cars out of town. but actually when you think of towns, particularly the high streets there'll streets in the towns, there'll be owners that be loads of business owners that have such a torrid time over have had such a torrid time over covid and the rest of it covid and all the rest of it that actually they need that footfall. say footfall, footfall. when i say footfall, i mean people going the mean those people going to the streets often the way that those people getting to those people are getting to those streets cars. and streets are by the cars. and i worry about the impacts on local high businesses, don't high street businesses, don't you? to point . but i you? yes, up to a point. but i think and i might be wrong, but i these areas of i think these areas of residential this is town residential this is not town centres . no, but you centres. no, but you specifically said no, i in fact. well, i was out and that's what i'm well, i'm all in favour of pedestrian pedestrianised town centres and particularly you know but then you've got to make it easy for people to park and cheap for people to park and you've got to make sure that the pubuc you've got to make sure that the public transport works. and of course, you know, lots of people will they'll differing views will they'll be differing views whether down football whether that cuts down football or whether it encourages it to be. well, i mean , just coming to be. well, i mean, just coming to your point, it's absolutely

established that shops that sit behind are the double yellows or on those white zigzags. you know, which prevent you from parking at all suffer. you've got to be able to pull up to a shop conveniently in order to shop. think the biggest shop. and i think the biggest problem these problem i've got with all these traffic calming measures, oil tans they to tans or whatever they want to call nowadays, that it call them nowadays, is that it is damaging . is economically damaging. ultimately, it's a form of taxation to control the slowdown of movement of traffic, the inability to get to where you want to, when you need to get the difficulties with emergency services. and of course, that's before we even get to congestion charging ulez phone charging , charging ulez phone charging, which is another form of progressive taxation on the working and middle classes, the whole thing is construed raining on the economic organism and you know, we wonder why we're a low growth country. it's because we introduce this kind of nonsense and i have great sympathy . and i have great sympathy. obviously, i don't condone violence or breaking the law, but i have great sympathy with the people of rochdale. and i

see a lot of these traffic calming measures in london. and i get out of my car and kick them over and i have difficulty getting in a red bull or being a rebel. i yeah, but then, you know, we discussed this on your show the other day, didn't we? michel and tfl has a map by the air pollution. yeah, we're up on the screen, if my memory serves me yeah, we did. me right. yeah, we did. then what happened ability for what happened to the ability for . let's take a sort of a small town with narrow streets, pavements, cars are quite big these days. are all many, many more cars than they used to be on the roads up to 40 plus vans and deliveries and all the rest of it. and you know, the ability for businesses to put stuff outside on pavement or onto the road is lovely. and i would argue that that attracts footfall and people, particularly cafes . i mean, you particularly cafes. i mean, you know, it's not it's not it's not that i'm against any form of traffic control , obviously not. traffic control, obviously not. but it's a bit like that pendulum that i was talking about between freedom and

control and this is part of the same thing you know, the pendulum of control. you know, the pendulum has swung so far towards control. and this is another massive manifestation of it, said it. there's it, michel said it. there's a war on cars . there is a war on war on cars. there is a war on cars. war on cars. there is a war on cars . there are just war on cars. there is a war on cars. there are just against car borne traffic and they will do anything to propel that agenda, including these 15 minute cities. so you can't actually exit your own zone more than a certain number of times. a year without being fined. i mean, it's utterly ridiculous. i think the 15 minutes cities idea has actually been by a sort of conspiracy theorists . oh, but conspiracy theorists. oh, but that's what they always say just before they make it. and, you know, finding i mean, these were around in the 1920s. and the idea is not to stop people going out. it's actually i mean, that may be what it is becoming in some people's views. but the idea was that, you wouldn't need a car , that you'd got access to a car, that you'd got access to a car, that you'd got access to a green space, that you'd got access to local shops. and this

don't forget, you know, we've seen so many town centres absolutely hollowed out with out of town retail parks which have decimate native town centres who are now just beginning to claw their way back . but we've lost their way back. but we've lost they're not growing their way up. well, yeah. so they're not unless they're in a fortunate area where little independent shops and so forth. but then shops can and so forth. but then there's whole different there's a whole different conversation actually if conversation about actually if you to, cities and towns to you need to, cities and towns to thrive , recreate them to be thrive, recreate them to be living spaces instead of building it . well, this all building it. well, this all sounds really lovely. yes all these lovely living spaces with all these things convenient. i wouldn't be against that . but wouldn't be against that. but then when you actually start looking into it and then you realise that actually to biden's point, when you actually do start having the audacity to leave your lovely, convenient space amount space more than x amount of times you be fined. you times you will be fined. you need register your car and need to register your car and get a permit or whatever it is that they call it for your units and your zones or whatever is when think of 24 seven bus when you think of 24 seven bus lanes, when the time you

lanes, when half the time you could do them just in could make do with them just in a rush hours, you look a rush to rush hours, you look at lanes popping up at cycle lanes popping up everywhere look you. last everywhere you look at you. last charge is a getaway plan, pulse popping charge is a getaway plan, pulse popping absolutely popping up. absolutely everywhere. could go on. but everywhere. i could go on. but the reasons work. so the ten reasons i work. so i think my dressed packet think you get my dressed packet in we actually allowed to in we are actually allowed to drive cars . we do choose . drive our cars. we do choose. i'll wait, i'll leave you to ponden i'll wait, i'll leave you to ponder. it's ride's primary school children. do you reckon that they should be asked to make anti racism pledges? that's all. so you want .

to hi, michelle dewberry. keeping you company right through till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, ben habib and joe phillips. mike says joe phillips on dupes and curses. 15 minute cities have been taken over by the conspiracy theorists. he poses a

good point, he says. isn't everything these days a conspiracy theorists until they actually then becomes fact. you make a very good point. lots and lots and lots of you getting in touch about all the topics tonight , frankly, which is nice tonight, frankly, which is nice . low traffic and neighbourhoods are the answer to building communities that the quality of the neighbourhoods and life for all of its resident needs. what about the quality of life for the residents that want to drive their cars or don't they count ? their cars or don't they count? i'm glad that people are taking back our streets , says, who are back our streets, says, who are you on about? want about the people that are setting fires of lamp posts all the people that are putting them in the first place. boris says it's the councils that are doing this to the of the levant that the streets of the levant that are not the are the vandals, not the protesters . gareth you make a protesters. gareth you make a very good point and on most of my you make the about my rant you make the point about 20 mile an hour speed limits everywhere. what's that all about? you're absolutely right . about? you're absolutely right. he says it workshop in cardiff as a result of them . anyway,

as a result of them. anyway, keep your thoughts coming in. i've got lots and lots of video feedback and i don't have any recipes for ben. actually, that's a very good point. if you just tuned in, you're thinking, what? what my watching. you're not watching her economics for love ben told me straight . love ben told me i'm straight. yeah, me that yeah, barnaby told me that hancock . we're going to hancock can't. we're going to have challenge, going to call have a challenge, going to call and going to ben's ben and it's going to read ben's ben saying they're going i'm saying they're going as if i'm going this well so anyway going to do this well so anyway we we're going get into we said we're going to get into boxing it in so we can boxing and bring it in so we can next week . well, if you've got next week. well, if you've got any suggestions as to what you can cook versus maybe rice krispie chocolate, bono, i can probably do that small laser. don't want to. don't want to confuse them that stage when it's just land, it's cool anyway. right i'm going to bring in some of your feedback towards the end of the programme. so lots and i just say to lots of you and i just say to the people blaming the the people who blaming the council, and it is council, which is and it is a council, which is and it is a council decision, don't forget there are local elections in may. you don't like what may. so if you don't like what your council's, that is your chance exercise your council's, that is your chan democratic exercise your council's, that is your

chan democratic right xercise your council's, that is your chan democratic right .zrcise your council's, that is your chan democratic right . yeah, i your democratic right. yeah, i got to say, i've never in my life i know that. well, if we get him complaining, i think i want to get you. but local elections. but i'm a sailor. the start of some of the goings on. i might be tempted one of these days to turn out for local election . i understand. election. i do understand. before in touch and before you all get in touch and tell me that you can't really have too much of a complaint if you don't turn and vote, you don't turn out and vote, maybe will next time. do you maybe i will next time. do you vote, way? do vote, by the way? do think there's small village? there's a small village? and what joe is saying there, let's move on, shall ben habib, move on, shall we? ben habib, you twitter. i was you were on your twitter. i was doing a bit of twitter stalking your way the other day. were your way the other day. you were retweeting pledge , retweeting this pledge, so—called anti—racism pledge, that a primary school children are being asked to sign. and it started of a conversation and i was following a little bit onune was following a little bit online as well . why i'm assuming online as well. why i'm assuming you object to they, so i object to young children being taught critical race theory, which on the screen, by the way , in case the screen, by the way, in case you're wondering what that is. yeah. so the pledge is quite

benign. the way it's been promoted, but actually lies behind is this critical race behind it. is this critical race theory and critical race theory is the presumption that all white people are privileged and that all white people are inherently races . and if they inherently races. and if they and they need to recognise that racism in order to get over it and to teach children that is not anti racism. to teach children is racism . it's children is racism. it's inculcating the belief that there is a difference between . there is a difference between. white people and people of ethnic minorities , different ethnic minorities, different ethnicities and when i was brought up, it was very simple and i wish we could just go back to this. everyone is equal. it doesn't matter your ethnic origin, is it doesn't matter what your religious beliefs are . it doesn't matter what your gender is, your sexual preferences , whatever, which preferences, whatever, which are, which side of tracks you were born on. we're equal. we all we all have equal in a label. human rights . and to be

label. human rights. and to be teaching children and that so i, i'm pointing at the paper that i can see the pledge on your paper to be teaching children that, i think is the antithesis of anti—racism. it is embedding racism in society, and it's part of a much bigger campaign , which of a much bigger campaign, which is, you know, attacking our speech, attacking our values is attacking our history, our heritage , attacking the united heritage, attacking the united kingdom. this is all designed to pull the rug out from from from the united kingdom , from our the united kingdom, from our self—belief, from our value systems. it's designed to condition , populate and condition, populate and disorientated irish people. that is nonsense . that is not anti is nonsense. that is not anti racism. that is racism . racism. that is racism. traveller i think that's a slight overreaction. i to be perfectly honest , i don't now perfectly honest, i don't now i nofice perfectly honest, i don't now i notice that we're not naming the school, but it's a very well recognised primary school, north london, which has had an outstanding ofsted inspection andifs

outstanding ofsted inspection and it's got extremely ofsted. come on, i know, but you know, let's not go down that route. but all i'm saying that, you know, factually and i looked up the school and looked up what they did , they take diverse and they did, they take diverse and integration very seriously . integration very seriously. they've got a team of people there. it's quite a big school, but it's got great reviews from people . it's a well—established people. it's a well—established school , it's got reviews from school, it's got reviews from people who went there, you know, years and years ago who are now grown up. i don't think this is anything more than asking and expecting young children to be considered , to be polite, to do. considered, to be polite, to do. two. think about things that they might say or do that might be offensive to other people , be offensive to other people, which is the sort of stuff you would expect a good school to teach anyway. and it's not just about race. it's about all sorts of things. and it's the sort of stuff that when children go to school, they have to learn to share. they have to learn to listen. they have to learn to

sit still. they have to learn to pay sit still. they have to learn to pay all of those pay attention. all of those things. you know, things. and i think, you know, this awful campaign. this is not some awful campaign. i it's quite sensible. i think it's quite sensible. well, me ask you, the well, let me ask you, the viewers, that i'm going to give you a couple of minutes to formulate your thoughts on it. joe it's joe is saying that actually it's a encouraging a nice thing, it's encouraging politeness dignity and politeness and dignity and respect and all the rest of it . respect and all the rest of it. ben, on the other hand, says it's quite divisive . i've got it's quite divisive. i've got a two year old and yeah, you're quite right. i want to teach him to share and all the rest of it. his best friend is a girl and she happens to be black. i don't think i would ever dream of having some conversation with him about her skin tone, too hair she'sjust him about her skin tone, too hair she's just a hair for him. she's just a little and not the way little mad and it's not the way it should . so give me your it should. so give me your thoughts and i'll see you into .

that. i'm michelle dewberry

keeping you company till 7:00 tonight alongside me. political common sense. joe phillips and ben habib keep me company. welcome everybody. i was asking you just before the break if you've got a primary school lunch, let's say a primary school, yes . that has that school, yes. that has that children signing a so—called anti racism pledge . is that a anti racism pledge. is that a good thing to just point as you just making is it just a nice, decent way of kind of interacting everyone together? ben perhaps suggesting it's slightly more of diversity . is slightly more of diversity. is that the right word? divisive, divisive, yeah. thank you, ben. getting tired ? where do you getting tired? where do you stand on this? you guys are getting in touch. james says joe is wrong and ben is right. they all children should just be children. why is skin colour and relevance to them , the poll relevance to them, the poll says, does this apply to children of all ethnicities or just white kids? i think this pledge is not for children, no, but it's underpinned by that critical race theory . well,

critical race theory. well, that's what's lurking behind. it's your view. but this is not a pledge that children have to sign . this is about the staff. sign. this is about the staff. and i think that's quite important . we're not suggesting important. we're not suggesting that it's all. yeah, but you can't have a pledge that is sitting atop a school without expecting the children to adhere to the behaviour is within that pledge. surely that's what's putting up with this. but listen, this is i will listen to children's concerns and experience says that's for a teacher or a member of staff. that's nothing contentious about that. i will allow all voices to be heard. nothing contentious about that. i will refer any racist incidents or suspected racist incidents or suspected racist incidents or suspected racist incidents to another the inclusion and anti—racist . inclusion and anti—racist. sally, i will be actively will one of the first one. it's the act of the anti—racist one. yeah well, getting tired is the end . well, getting tired is the end. i'm sorry. i thought you reading up the list. you're reading down the list? yeah, it's the last one which is underpinned by critical race theory and the

school if you look behind the tweet , the school that published tweet, the school that published this subscribes to critical race theory. and that's the issue for me. it's this notion, i think it's a hugely destructive of philosophy. this if you can call it a philosophy, critical race theory, this notion that white people are privileged this so many underprivileged white people. i think the whole issue of diversity and inclusion needs to recognise that diversity and. inclusion also include people with mental, physical, visual hearing, any other sort of impairment . hearing, any other sort of impairment. it's hearing, any other sort of impairment . it's also about impairment. it's also about older people . it's not just older people. it's not just about young people. and i think it should be something that embraces all of that. but i do it's important to say that nobody's asking children to sign this pledge . well, keep your this pledge. well, keep your thoughts coming in on that . thoughts coming in on that. you're all still getting in touch on the lurch. traffic neighbourhoods , the majority of

neighbourhoods, the majority of you are not really in favour of them. i have to say migrants were talking about that and about the conversations they're about, you know , where you know, about, you know, where you know, what is the best solution to this? if it's not going to be hotels, is it going to be barges, military bases, ferries, you name it ? joe says michelle, you name it? joe says michelle, why can't the cost of illegal migrants be taken exclusively from the foreign aid budget? so it is. and redirected stop having any of the points 5.7 0.5 just as it is , it's cut our just as it is, it's cut our foreign aid budget by 3. just i mean , i'm just trying to. why mean, i'm just trying to. why wasn't this new policy put in place years ago? this is david. it is boris . place years ago? this is david. it is boris. that should take responsibility for. it is boris. that should take responsibility for . the hotels responsibility for. the hotels fiasco. paul says, i completely agree with ben. the key here is to try and stop people making this crossing in the first place. and i think we all agree on that. but the key and the difficulty that everyone experiencing is how on earth you do that. and that is the thing.

i don't think anyone's really got the answer for ben. well, there is an answer. it's a very answer. it requires political will. and i don't think the government has the courage to do, which is police our do, which is to police our borders. that mean. well, borders. does that mean. well, that have border force, that means have border force, which are trained not not this border because this border force, because this border force, because this border doesn't believe border force doesn't believe in being you being a border force. you recruit believe in recruit people who believe in the that they're given, the mandate that they're given, which protect the entry which is to protect the entry points our territory , our points into our territory, our waters, to push back these waters, and to push back these dinghies french territorial dinghies into french territorial waters and require them to make the journey back to france that these people got into their dinghies of their own volition . dinghies of their own volition. they made a decision that they were going to take that risk if they can make it to the point of exit french waters, they can exit to french waters, they can make way back to make it all the way back to french coast. absolutely. they can. notion that ana can. joe, the notion that ana law and border force should effectively become a taxi service, they're not. but service, well, they're not. but that's are. absolutely that's what they are. absolutely not. the optics and the optics is unbelievable . when you get to is unbelievable. when you get to british waters, you get ferry back in you, anyone , and they're

back in you, anyone, and they're not being rescued. they're not in distress. they just loaded onto rnli boats and brought to the rnli will only go if they get a distress call. there is an equivalent to the rnli on the french side, they haven't made a single rescue of these people leaving french shores. it's all done by rnli . i only want to get done by rnli. i only want to get in british waters to know what this conversation teaches me is that this is a conversation that will rumble on and on and on. interesting development in that story there today when it comes to military bases and ferries and all the rest of it being discussed, will it be the will it fix the issue or not? divided opinions here on what the answer to that is. i shall leave you all to ponder it says, how about all to ponder it says, how about a fruit salad ? that could be a a fruit salad? that could be a cooking challenge . oh, i can do cooking challenge. oh, i can do a fruit salad. marvellous then hit me. it's going to bring a fruit salad in for us. i'm going to have to call coming early to enjoy it. guys thank you very much for your company. thank you

at home for yours too. nigel farage is up next. go anywhere . farage is up next. go anywhere. good evening, alex deakin here with your latest weather update from the met office after a bit of a gloomy one today, tomorrow for most of should be a good for most of us should be a good deal brighter. there'll be deal brighter. there'll still be some around . it some heavy showers around. it will mild once more and will be quite mild once more and it's going be pretty it's still going to be pretty blustery. has on blustery. plenty of ice has on the charts suggesting gusty winds, particularly this evening , close to these weather fronts that are spells of rain across the with a pulse of rain heading its way north across england and wales spreading into eastern areas through the night. the rain over the northern rain lingering over the northern ireland. but parts of scotland, northern ireland seeing some decent, spells won't be decent, clear spells won't be too chilly. however enough of a breeze to stop temperatures much beyond six or seven cells. yes, and most of and and for most of england and wales, many of us will stay in double figures to start thursday. do start with a lot thursday. we do start with a lot of cloud and further outbreaks of cloud and further outbreaks of northern england. of rain over northern england. southern skulk islands slowly heading into the north sea.

heading out into the north sea. and then it's a day of sunny spells and showers. so better chance of seeing a bit more blue skies tomorrow, will skies tomorrow, but there will be moving through and be showers moving through and a fairly stiff in some of fairly stiff in some parts of the south be on this line the south could be on this line of showers. just get one of showers. so just get one after there after another. elsewhere, there will be some brighter spells and it will be pretty mild with temperatures getting to 16, temperatures getting up to 16, maybe celsius in the sunshine maybe 17 celsius in the sunshine over eastern england, there will be which it be a breeze, which means it won't quite mild as won't feel quite as mild as that. still, those that. but still, those temperatures well average. temperatures well above average. look though , spiralling look at this, though, spiralling in me. another area of in behind me. another area of low pressure further bands of rain pushing northwards during thursday nights , lingering into thursday nights, lingering into friday morning, gusty winds, too, especially over southern parts of england and wales. it could get very lively for time dunng could get very lively for time during friday. so blustery conditions , heavy rain to conditions, heavy rain to spreading across the south, staying fairly cloudy for northern ireland with outbreaks of rain. but perhaps mostly dry and bright in scotland , and bright in scotland, particularly the some good particularly the west, some good spells sunshine here on friday or in quite a lot of or as in east, quite a lot of low cloud moving in, keeping

temperatures suppressed overall quite bit cooler for most us quite a bit cooler for most us compared tomorrow .

former military bases at commandeered to house young men across the english channel in inflatable dinghies. will this stop the boats? would it save money or was the whole thing a complete fraud? we'll go up to shropshire to ask why michael gove was just approved. a giant solar farm and see how local campaigners feel about it. gordon chang expelled in china, will tell us what they've been up to around the world in last few weeks. and joining me on talking points. well, he played a lot of football with tottenham hotspur. became a london hotspur. he then became a london cabbie. a joins cabbie. yes. micky has a joins on talking but before on talking points. but before all of that,