welcome to glory meets . we've welcome to glory meets. we've got a cracking show ahead. our first interview is with the first interview is with the first woman to chair the foreign affairs select committee as the conservative mp alicia kearns. why i message is if you are an identity thief, tick tock. is your dream coming up. he's leaving parliament this time . is leaving parliament this time. is the conservative mp charles walker. with far more colleagues than you or i would have ever thought. struggle to find employment once they leave. leave the house of commons. coming up, the general secretary, the leader of britain's biggest trade union,

christina mckinney . but i think christina mckinney. but i think the tide has turned in this country. and actually people see the value of trade unions. my i would say to the labour party , would say to the labour party, don't be afraid of being seen to be close to the to the trade union movement. all that after your news . hi there. it's union movement. all that after your news. hi there. it's a minute past six. good evening to you. i'm alan armstrong in the newsroom the home secretary suella braverman has rejected suggestions brexit is responsible for delays at the port of dover, as despite some passengers saying they had to queue for up to 16 hours to have their passports checked. holidaymakers trying to get away for easter are facing for easter are still facing delays of up to 8 hours, despite extra services running overnight . port officials have blamed delays on a lengthy immigration process . meanwhile, more than process. meanwhile, more than a million passport applications could face delays in processing because of a five week strike that starts tomorrow . passport

that starts tomorrow. passport office workers across eight sites are set to walk out, which is expected to have a significant impact on applications ahead of the summer holidays. the peaks union general secretary to the government calling for urgent talks in a bid to resolve the matter . talks in a bid to resolve the matter. meanwhile talks in a bid to resolve the matter . meanwhile the talks in a bid to resolve the matter. meanwhile the home secretary suella braverman has singled out british pakistan any man over concerns about grooming gangs as she prepares to announce new measures to tackle child sexual abuse . the home child sexual abuse. the home secretary is accused authorities of turning a blind to eye signs of turning a blind to eye signs of abuse over fears of being labelled racist or bigoted , labelled racist or bigoted, suggesting political correctness is to blame. writing in the mail on sunday, ms. braverman says those working with children will have a legal duty to report signs or suspicions of sexual abuse. safeguarding minister sarah dines says it's a scourge of our society . can't stop in of our society. can't stop in making sure that people are protected . children are the most protected. children are the most vulnerable part of our society as well as the elderly. we must

make sure that they're not sexually abused. so i don't accept we've got to be rife with those reports. that may be one or and they will dealt or two, and they will be dealt with and identified. the overwhelming gave overwhelming people that gave evidence speaking the truth evidence are speaking the truth to inquiry, it was very to the inquiry, and it was very heartbreaking we need heartbreaking testimony. we need to act. heartbreaking testimony. we need to act . at least one person has to act. at least one person has been killed and 16 others injured in an explosion at a cafe in the russian city of st petersburg. the country's interior ministry has confirmed a well—known military blogger to vlad linked taraki was killed with a following of more than 560,000 on telegram. he was one of the most prominent bloggers commenting on russia's war in ukraine. a russian news agencies are reporting the incident was caused by an explosive device . caused by an explosive device. the government says it's in the glaciations regarding three british man being held by the taliban in afghanistan . they taliban in afghanistan. they include the so—called danger tourist miles rutledge , who had

tourist miles rutledge, who had tourist miles rutledge, who had to be rescued from kabul by british forces less than two years ago. it's unclear how long he's been held for the charity medic, kevin cornwall, and a second unnamed man who were both detained in january are understood to be in good health. the united states is urging russia to immediately release the journalist who's been detained on suspicion of spying . evan gersh kovic , who works . evan gersh kovic, who works for the wall street journal , for the wall street journal, pleaded not guilty earlier this week. u.s. pleaded not guilty earlier this week. us. secretary of state antony blinken has told russia's top diplomat it's unacceptable. sergei lavrov, in response, is accused washington of trying to politicise the case. the charges of espionage in russia carry a jail term of up to 20 years. three people have been arrested on suspicion of murder after a man died when he was hit by a van outside a pub in northumberland. two men were injured during the incident, which took place in the car park of the bay in cramlington of the bay horse in cramlington last night. a 55 year old man was pronounced dead at the scene

and the other man remains in critical condition . and the pope critical condition. and the pope has laid a palm sunday service in rome a day after being sent home from hospital with bronchitis. around 30,000 people watched pope francis opening the easter celebrations, which marked the start of holy week. the pope was taken to hospital on wednesday complaining of breathing difficulty . but he breathing difficulty. but he returned home to the vatican yesterday, having made a swift recovery . tv online debate plus recovery. tv online debate plus radio and on tuning . this is gb radio and on tuning. this is gb news, but now it is time for gloria bates . gloria bates. alicia kearns. i'm so please be doing this interview. i wanted to meet you and interview you for ages, so thank you now. so fine. so i read that your

parents were lefties. they were? how how did they react when you became a tory? so it's really since i was i grew up in a house that was very left wing. so my father was involved in irish politics. they met in east berlin, where my dad had just been travelling around the us all. my mom was studying latin german and they fell in love through politics. they moved back the uk. it was very back to the uk. it was very romantic actually. so mom's romantic actually. so my mom's last day in germany was my dad's first and he flew home with her to england next day because they were so sure that this was to be and then they lived in a squat in where they were in birmingham where they were very left wing and lots of politics and very politics and yeah, very different. thing different. but the main thing they brought up with was that they brought me up with was that in politics should never in politics you should never hate. intensely dislike, hate. you can intensely dislike, you to you can disagree. but we have to have more dialogue in politics. and so i went on this journey and i think it's really important we accept that important that we accept that people politics people can change their politics and their politics. and and come to their politics. and actually courage takes to actually the courage it takes to come and say, i'm going to come out and say, i'm going to reject i was raised reject everything i was raised with because actually i've

with, because actually i've realised this is my journey and it when i was working the it was when i was working in the civil service and i thought i went service i went to civil service thinking i was voter and prisoner was a labour voter and prisoner voting was the first turning point. and it was that point. and for me it was that realisation that you realisation that if you have heard all society, have no heard all society, you have no right have a say you've right to have a say once you've come been come out, you've been rehabilitated, course you get rehabilitated, of course you get full citizens rights back. but why in prison? and it was why in prison? no. and it was this gradual journey. you this gradual journey. and, you know friends out know, i would take friends out and them change and tell them why change our politics my parents politics and tell my parents i might actually lost my dad by then because i lost them when i was 18. but my mum has never even for a moment hesitated to support me entirely she support me entirely because she said, you know, i know want said, you know, i know you want to and i know to make a difference and i know you're it the you're going into it for the right reasons. and she has also gone to political journey because really struggled because she really struggled then to corbynism to continue to support the labour party. so yeah, , wow. what's the yeah, wow, wow. what's the impact of losing your dad when you're writing it ? it changed you're writing it? it changed everything and i don't think you everything and i don't think you ever get over it. and i really struggle . he had a stroke out of struggle. he had a stroke out of nowhere and my mum was abroad,

so i was left to deal with all the medical care until she was able to get back and my family upbringing and my dad was the househusband . my mum worked so househusband. my mum worked so he was my person , the plot of my he was my person, the plot of my hair every morning and looked after me and it broke me and it burnt for many years and for burnt me for many years and for me it was a numbness to me on a daily basis where i do feel like ihave daily basis where i do feel like i have lost the ability to feel happiness and some extent because they were everything and he was my best friend and yeah, i really struggle with it . but i really struggle with it. but i think also that empathy and knowing what it's like, we lost everything. my dad died, his life insurance ran out while he was in a coma, so we had to sell our house, which sold belongings. it was a complete change life that allows change to our life that allows you to have more compassion for people because you understand some extent trauma that can some extent the trauma that can happen you get over happen. but you never get over that grief. it just doesn't it doesn't away . indeed. now, doesn't go away. indeed. now, let's about what you're let's talk about what you're doing now . so you are the first

doing now. so you are the first woman and the youngest ever chair of the foreign affairs select committee . you beat tory select committee. you beat tory grandees in that election. it's an internal election and anna smith wanted the job. liam fox wanted the job. your colleagues, of course. so you are a trailblazer in a male dominated said world of foreign affairs there email. it's very, very male . how do you what's it like male. how do you what's it like to make history here? it's a privilege and i'm so grateful and i was i was really pleased because i got over half the conservative vote, which i thought was really important . thought was really important. i'm able to make a difference . i'm able to make a difference. and i think we all come to parliament, as you know, with all different expertise, all different specialisms, and we fight for constituencies . fight for our constituencies. but also particular but there are also particular skill sets you where skill sets that you bring where you to show that you can you want to show that you can help difference . and it help make a difference. and it means everything to me being able do this. what's able to do this. and what's really the weekend we really nice over the weekend we had really difficult news had some really difficult news stories israel on the stories around israel on the reforms place there reforms taking place there and relationships middle east relationships in the middle east peace and the amount of

peace process and the amount of colleagues came up and colleagues came up to me and said, proud i you said, i'm so proud i backed you because you've shown that in the way that you're representing parliament. so i'm really parliament. so yeah, i'm really proud and grateful i'm proud and grateful and i'm loving it . so proud and grateful and i'm loving it. so i'm really grateful. that's good have . i grateful. that's good to have. i wanted to ask you about something that you said. we're walking around with things in our pockets that are taking our data . can you tell me what what data. can you tell me what what are we walking around with that's worrying you? what data is being taken? why who buy for what purpose? so the reality is we are under attack from authoritarian states on every single day and post covid the amount of apps that we were installing to go to different countries. so qatar i raised a flag about the fact that one the apps they want everyone to download gave that up. the ability to go into other apps you have to your you have to steal your information switch your information to switch on your phone without you having done it, recording on it, to switch on recording on your phone you having your phone without you having done covid was the done it. covid was the authoritarian regimes dream

because download because everyone had download technologies to track who they're into interacting with. but a greatest right, but we have a greatest right, which is china and they are trying to build a tech totalitarian state. and the way you do that is by coming rating data. in as data. they need to suck in as much data count as they can around the world. so exfiltrating data is their exfiltrating our data is their priority alongside tech and authoritarianism, which is essentially the insertion of technologies into our lives, where we become dependent and reliant them because more reliant on them because more dependent we are as a country on china, the more castrated we are on the world stage. you cannot stand up to china if you are reliant on them for technologies. if they have your data and if they weaponise resources around the world. and so tiktok is a good example. women i started raising the flag were 18 months ago. i refused to ever go on the platform . people ever go on the platform. people like, is this woman on like, what is this woman on about? it's just videos of cats and elephants dancing . but the and elephants dancing. but the reality is, a, this is an app that the chinese government doesn't want its own people on. that should a pause for that should give you a pause for thought. secondly, we know now

the tik tok employees the the tik tok employees access the data of british journalist to try and find out who their sources so we that in sources were. so we know that in individuals can be to individuals data can be found to find to see find their locations, to see they're with . thirdly, they're engaging with. thirdly, we china discriminates we know that china discriminates against certain people and individuals in the algorithm. so if you're disabled or can stay unattractive, you go further down the rankings. so imagine what they're doing politically. imagine what they're capable of doing politically. and finally, the is around the the challenge is around the entire way in which we engage with tiktok, which is that it's undermining our critical thinking and our ability to challenge what's going on around us reality is they are us and the reality is they are signed up to article six of the chinese national security law, which means that if the chinese government asks the date that tiktok have to hand it tiktok has, they have to hand it over. tiktok has, they have to hand it over . and as we said, we've seen over. and as we said, we've seen that they've illegally accessed data before . this is a major data before. this is a major concern and it's in our pockets and there are other apps doing that sort of activity. we have to have a national conversation on this. do you have a message to uses tiktok or

to anybody who uses tiktok or perhaps parent of a children who use tiktok? so when i go and speak to young people in schools , they ask me about this. the child's right, but then the conversation, they go, you know, watch. i think i'm going to come off shouldn't be banning watch. i think i'm going to come off thingsouldn't be banning watch. i think i'm going to come off things becausee banning watch. i think i'm going to come off things because we anning watch. i think i'm going to come off things because we need; watch. i think i'm going to come off things because we need to these things because we need to have a national conversation. but if you are an but my message is, if you are an identity thief, tiktok is your dream. for example, when dream. because for example, when everyone things everyone does the silly things like would be your pornstar like what would be your pornstar name? and it's like give, give tik mother's maiden tik tok your mother's maiden name pet's name. those name and your pet's name. those are most common things are also the most common things you your passwords be you use for your passwords to be restored. people that restored. people putting that out the world so that out to the world so that identity i know your identity thief i now know your mother's name, pet mother's maiden name, your pet name, know where you name, but i also know where you spend time, who your spend your time, who your interests, your interests interests, what your interests are. your friends are vulnerabilities, things vulnerabilities, are the things you're you you're interested in that you shouldn't interested in, not shouldn't be interested in, not for an identity thief. that's a dream. a hostile state dream. imagine a hostile state that work out who that is trying to work out who you that can help you know that they can help undermine that individual because of the things you've put out interesting. out online. really interesting. now i want ask you about now i want to ask you about something that you wrote. you

wrote a pamphlet with a number of your conservative parliamentary colleagues. this was back in 2020. so about three years ago , and you said this, it years ago, and you said this, it is our duty to follow through on our pledge to increase the dignity, safety and privacy of transgender members of our society . now, the trans debate society. now, the trans debate has continued to rage . yeah what has continued to rage. yeah what are you calling for ? what needs are you calling for? what needs to happen ? so i'm a libertarian. to happen? so i'm a libertarian. people should be free to live their lives as they want with as little government intervention as possible until you hurt someone. and then i will come tell on like a tonne of tell on you like a tonne of bricks. this came from bricks. this all came about from my argument . we need to my argument. we need to gay conversion therapy bill. so if you conversion therapy bill. so if you gay ' conversion therapy bill. so if you gay , this is not some you are gay, this is not some malady condition where you need to be treated . you should be to be treated. you should be allowed to love who you want to love. it's about your private life and what you want to do. you hurting anyone else. the you not hurting anyone else. the reason a clue to reason why i have a clue to transgender my transgender people within my conversion at conversion therapy bill is at this moment this country, if this moment in this country, if you think you are you

you think you are trans, you deserve to challenging deserve to have challenging support. the you support. the options you currently moment. currently have at the moment. unfortunately, risks you unfortunately, the risks are you either go a quack who says either go to a quack who says you are absolutely trans. without question, some hippy dippv without question, some hippy d|ppy who's without question, some hippy dippy who's to push dippy person who's going to push you dippy person who's going to push you path no matter you down that path no matter what could go to someone what or you could go to someone who such thing who says there is no such thing as trans. you are as being trans. you are medically in need of treatment , medically in need of treatment, you and we are going you are wrong and we are going to ingest toxins and to make you ingest toxins and poisons and we're going to pray over you and all these things that are completely wrong, endanger that person's mental health. my bill for health. what my bill calls for is are trans. you is that you are trans. you should see someone should have to see someone who is regulated and accredited. that's all i'm asking for so that no one can either way put you at risk. don't think you at risk. i don't think that's a complicated thing to believe in, but i think what's really frustrating by the conversion therapy bills that people tried to manipulate people have tried to manipulate it for their own sort it and use it for their own sort orissues it and use it for their own sort or issues that they to or issues that they want to raise. let's focus on protecting the most vulnerable and that should be our job. and, you know, and it's also funny how people say, well, that that's your position on transgender

rights. actual rights. then also the actual position that's your position of sports. that's your position. no, not position. prisons no, it's not my on prisons is very my position on prisons is very clear. been calling clear. anyone i've been calling for years. if you've for this for years. if you've committed sexual motivates committed a sexual motivates violent crime against women, you cannot in a prison with cannot be put in a prison with women because the government's foremost duty is to keep people safe. includes those safe. and that includes those women in that prison. know, women in that prison. you know, the lack of nuance in this debate, should be really debate, we should be really ashamed need to make ashamed of that. we need to make sure we're a proper, sure we're having a proper, legitimate is the legitimate debate. is the government yes government backing your. yes bill? be bill? yeah. so it should be coming next couple coming for the next couple of months. you a panic months. okay you have a panic alarm in every single of alarm in every single room of your why i won't be the your house. why i won't be the only mp . there are mps who only mp. there are mps who children all taken to school by the police every morning . there the police every morning. there are colleagues who are told that they need police protection all they need police protection all the time in their own constituencies have constituencies who have stalkers, people stalkers, who have people outside their offices in balaclavas and was advised balaclavas and i was advised that needed panic alarms. that i needed panic alarms. every room, my house, of every room, my house, because of death received death threats i've received threats my children who threats against my children who are under four. and because are both under four. and because of the interest in hostile states and trying to undermine me and hurt me . so that's why i

me and hurt me. so that's why i was given that advice . and of was given that advice. and of course, you take the advice given to you by security experts, i guess i became familiar with your name and many of the people would have done the the moves to bring the time of the moves to bring bofis the time of the moves to bring boris johnson down. and you were cited in media reports as the ringleader of a conspiracy to do that. you denied that you continue to deny that . do you continue to deny that. do you think there was an element of sexism about how you were singled out as a ringleader dunng singled out as a ringleader during that period? without question. and those individuals responsible for that? no, they are . i'll be completely are. i'll be completely transparent. there was a meeting in my office of a group of conservative mp. there have been other meetings. the other days in offices where in other offices where we discussed or not boris discussed whether or not boris johnson down the johnson had let down the conservative party and let down the people of this country. it is incumbent on conservative mp to that discussion . i'm i'm to have that discussion. i'm i'm not of that . but was it not ashamed of that. but was it briefed out to major support briefed out to the major support pipe briefed out to the major support pipe lot because they were

worried about what we might be planning? is planning? yes. what is interesting days that interesting is in the days that followed well i was in followed it. well i was in ukraine working on how do we support friends in ukraine. support our friends in ukraine. the two people in the room the only two people in the room briefed and me. women, davison and me. the two women, the only two women in the room they her love they briefed about her love life, shameful , they briefed about her love life, shameful, and life, which is shameful, and they against me. they briefed out against me. the whips that was a bad whips office, that i was a bad mother i take my mother because i take my daughter with to ukraine. daughter with me to ukraine. now, daughter came with now, my daughter came with me because she had up brain surgery, a very young age and i was still breastfeeding. it was perfectly my perfectly safe to take my daughter ukraine at daughter to ukraine at that time. that they did time. but the fact that they did that that was the best they that and that was the best they could find on me was i was a bad mother. think there are some mother. i think there are some serious to asked serious questions to be asked there who made those there about who made those decisions and thought decisions and why they thought that appropriate. as that was a tool appropriate. as a chilling end to the interview, actually, thank you for explaining nervous explaining this. some nervous whips there and i'm so pleased that we finally got to do this interview say the interview and i should say the current office, i have to current whips office, i have to say it's a complete change. and what in past and what i've seen in the past and i'm grateful to see such a i'm very grateful to see such a grown up approach to governance.

you a great way of you have a great way of expressing i was expressing yourself. and i was honestly word honestly hanging off every word dunng honestly hanging off every word during alicia during that interview. alicia kearns thanks for having me. thank coming up, conservative mp charles walker. the real problem is , is people looking to come is, is people looking to come into the house of commons, really talented people think, why i want to that ? why would i want to do that? coming the leader of coming up, the leader of britain's biggest trade union, unison christina mckinney. there's not a single union that i knew who wants to do their own business or the employers that the west because who wants that? nobody wants the business at the end members at end to feel. you want it to succeed .

conservative mp elect hurd . in conservative mp elect hurd. in 2005, charles walker , good to 2005, charles walker, good to see you. what's the mp facts of

people , mps standing down. people, mps standing down. sometimes after one term. i mean, i think you need a turnover in members of parliament. i think that being there for 30 years is good for a few, but i'm not sure it's good for the many. that's the nature of politics. i am sad, though, when i see people call it a day after five years. i think that is sad. i think. i mean , i is sad. i think. i mean, i certainly know after five years i was still loving it . certainly know after five years i was still loving it. but i'd be for the of my life, be here for the rest of my life, carry me out in a box. but i wasn't in a marginal seat and i think the experiences of a member of parliament in a safe seatis member of parliament in a safe seat is entirely different to the experience of a member of parliament in a marginal seat . parliament in a marginal seat. so you say that you're sad about mps who stand down after one term, but you did this big report into why mps stand down. you did that in february . and you did that in february. and one of the things you said was

that some long standing mp so people have been in parliament for a long time, would love to quit, but fears about finding a job? yeah. after leaving , stop job? yeah. after leaving, stop them doing so. how widespread a problem? so there is a clear cliff edge. now, if you if you come into parliament, leave come into parliament, you leave your substantive career in your twenties, even twenties, thirties, or even forties, and you're there for a penod forties, and you're there for a period of time when you leave parliament, be it two years, five years or 20 years, you've stepped out of career and stepped out of your career and employers say, well, well , i employers say, well, well, i don't understand what skills you would bring to my organisation . would bring to my organisation. and the fact of the matter is, is , you know, members of is, you know, members of parliament have a huge number of skills which is lousy. it articulating them. so what my report said is that when you become a member of parliament, you should be planning to leave the day you arrive. and think the day you arrive. and i think it's important for it's really important for members parliament have members of parliament to have access to really good vocational career qualification actions access to really good vocational careegreatlification actions access to really good vocational careegreat negotiateictions access to really good vocational careegreat negotiate isions access to really good vocational careegreat negotiate is with with great negotiate is with great dispute resolution. many of us a really good communicators and those skills

could be captured in vocational qualifications , but also we qualifications, but also we would benefit from advice, from experts in outplacement and headhunting and recruitment as to what you might want to do if you thought about leaving and i know it's very difficult for members of parliament often to think about leaving, but it comes to almost all of it all of us at some stage and my experience, i sit on the members fund which supports members of parliament who are in financial trouble or sorry, former members of parliament. is that actually far more colleagues than you or i have ever thought i would have ever thought struggle to find employment once they leave the house of they leave, leave the house of commons. now your view is may say, well, too bad for them. tough, the real problem is, tough, but the real problem is, is people looking to come in to the house of commons, really talented people if they want. what i to do that i'm what i want to do that i'm a really successful academic . i'm really successful academic. i'm a really successful bioscience engineer , and i'm going to come engineer, and i'm going to come out of my career and i'm going

to spend ten years in parliament then actually when i leave, either because the electorate want me to go or i've had enough, then i'm going to find it very, really, really, very difficult up difficult to pick up where i left so actually not left off. so actually i'm not going to into parliament. going to go into parliament. interesting how how would it work this making head—hunters available or other employ as potentially employers available ? do you have a vision of. i do, because again, glory stories keep bringing you in. you are an next colleague. what members of parliament are good at in the main is giving advice. both you and i, in our surgeries, just being around our emails, we end up giving a lot of really good advice to people. we're really lousy at taking advice and seeking out advice and it would just be good to have confidential sounding boards where a member of parliament can say, look, i'm thinking of leaving . what is it i should be leaving. what is it i should be doing to pave the way for me to get out of here? of course, or within or within the rules and

you know, gloria, we want people to feel after 20 or 30 years, as i did after 17, 18 years, that now is the time to go. to be able to be able to go. the worst thing we can have is mp saying, look, i've been here for 20 years, i'm in my fifties, i don't enjoy it anymore, but it's a safe seat. i think i'll just stick around and pick up the money, but actually, ideally i'd like it's just too like to go, but it's just too risky for me to because risky for me to go because i don't know what i do. does that make sense? that isn't make sense? yeah, that isn't good for the mp, but more importantly, for importantly, it's not good for that. mps constituents. as i said, you've got to have someone there wants do it 110. so there who wants to do it 110. so you're thinking like a career service mps? that's exactly service for mps? that's exactly what thinking. i happen to what i'm thinking. i happen to haven't articulated it yet as brilliantly as that, but that is a career service for members of parliament. and again, i say it's so that members of parliament who are not 110% on their game can transit you out. and our constituent that can get new people in who are really excited about being mps and

hopefully some really talented people who think you know, i can afford to take the chance of stepping out of my substantive career because there are opportunities down the road for me to get back into it. interesting to refer you like to speculate how many sorts of time in service, what percentage of the house do you think are bad blockers? i suppose staying beyond beyond the desire or need that would be unfair of me to speculate on that number. but i certainly know that i will probably be leaving at 57 if i didn't go at 57 and stayed until i was 62. i then think, well, who's going to want me at 60? i better stay till i'm 67. then you get to 67. you think, well, actually, i need to keep myself mentally engaged. i might stay to 72 and i just don't necessarily think that is fair or right now. don't get me wrong, david davis, one of my best, best friends is probably

near 70 and he's amazing. he's got all the energy of an 18 year old. absolutely. but but there are applications like that. harriet harman, she is starting now, but she's complete, of course, indefatigable well . course, indefatigable as well. more walker after more from charles walker after this. you think i must be mad? you think i'm must be suffering alone ? and actually, it was only alone? and actually, it was only in later life that i discovered that these were all the symptoms of obsessive compulsive disorder

one of the things in your report that i just want to explore, you said the house of commons should continue the provision of security for those deemed to be at high risk of an ongoing threat . how do you at high risk of an ongoing threat. how do you make that judgement? because everyone's going to say, well, i think i'm and i don't think they will be those those people are into those those people are no. into our internal security advisors

and that was an important part of part part of the report that we had to put. and we know two or three colleagues who face significant threat when they last left the house as a result of being mp . and of course in of being mp. and of course in the, in the old system or the current system, i think it's changing and will change. when you left the house, that sort of fell away immediately. and we have an ongoing duty of care to those that have served. is there a system whereby those members who are at risk impose a risk when they leave just a sum of monitoring? that is the case at the last election that when you left, you were very much handed over to your local police force in your area where you live . i in your area where you live. i don't think i was aware is where is in it. we believe it's important and the house service believe it's important that where there is a really identified, active , ongoing race identified, active, ongoing race to the house, it maintains its

involvement in making sure that member parliament feels or former member of parliament sorry, feels safe and secure. we're using we're talking tiny numbers. we're not talking huge numbers. we're not talking huge numbers. thankfully okay . that numbers. thankfully okay. that was all really interesting . i was all really interesting. i just want to talk to you. change subjects and talk to you about the fact that for more than three decades you have suffered with obsessive compulsive disorder. can you tell me how that manifests itself? i tend to wash my hands a lot, which i don't mean to be flippant, was really covid because really good during covid because the was your hands the advice was wash your hands a lot. i already did that. and lot. and i already did that. and i sort tend , tend to count in i sort of tend, tend to count in evens numbers, but sort of weird, weird little obsessions. yeah i had it quite badly when i was was younger and it comes in waves . but thankfully, as i've waves. but thankfully, as i've got older and more settled and balanced in who i am , less of an balanced in who i am, less of an issue, but huge , highly issue, but huge, highly sympathetic for those that suffer from ocd. i mean, it does drive me wild when people say because they like to have their

ornaments in a certain vanity. but i've got ocd that that that starts just being like your you like being tidy. i mean, i use ocd for really serious affairs is a life altering illness and very sadly, some people end up being being being committed to hospital because it is literally destroying their lives. so it is it is it is at its extreme a. very serious. serious for many. and when i read an interview with you about this, you said the illness had taken you to some quite dark places . the illness had taken you to some quite dark places. i'd have to answer, but if you want to elaborate on it, it struck me quite dark places as serious. three words are serious . we was. three words are serious. we was. well, i mean, i said that said that i said that ten years ago when you grow up as a child with all these tics and involuntary thoughts and all these sort of terrible things going on in your head, you think, i must be mad ? head, you think, i must be mad? you think i must be suffering alone and actually, it was only later life that i discovered that these were all the symptoms

of obsessive compulsive disorder and, you know, i took great, great comfort in that. and i worked with an organisation that actually supports women who who who are recent mothers because ocd, you can have of maternal ocd, you can have of maternal ocd that hits a woman straight after having a child and they have all these terrible thoughts that they might, you know, drop that they might, you know, drop that baby into a bath of scalding water juicer, baby down the stairs. and they've been frightened to sort of mention this it, to a social worker this to it, to a social worker in the child's taken away, in case the child's taken away, but with but actually working with government with government and we work with a brilliant minister, dan poulter, we've real progress now. we've made real progress now. so social work is now aware of maternal ocd and women have to have space and confidence to have the space and confidence to talk about it . and that's talk about it. and that's a really good thing , how it comes really good thing, how it comes to the end of the interview. i just want to get the benefit of your historical perspective experience, i suppose . really. experience, i suppose. really. so you've done nearly 20 years and in parliament, what's been the hardest period for you

dunng the hardest period for you during that time? i loved the first four years and then we had expenses and that coincided with the financial crisis and then it sort of got harder every year and the challenges seemed to get bigger. i mean, in this parliament we've had covid where we started off with brexit, then we started off with brexit, then we had covid, then we've had this terrible war in ukraine being perpetrated by russia . and being perpetrated by russia. and then we've had china with zero covid you know, the problems just get bigger and bigger and to all those people who think they're a simple solutions to complex questions . they're a simple solutions to complex questions. i would they're a simple solutions to complex questions . i would say complex questions. i would say if there were we would have found them by now being in government really difficult . government is really difficult. being in opposition is really difficult i just don't think there are simple solutions to complex problems. the world is a really complicated place and i think most politicians try their best. and i do think it's incumbent on all political parties to look at the way

members of parliament experience to parliament see if adaptations could be made to attract people with bigger brains. we always need people like me. we are. we need people like me. we are. we need people like me. we are. we need people who are emotion and all over the place and got politicians. that's fine. there's always a space for us. but we do need i don't think we attract the really big thinkers. we past, and we attracted in the past, and i don't think that's me looking at the past three rows, tinted glasses. think we glasses. i just don't think we do because now is incredibly attritional and very difficult. almost 24 hours a day. and if you do it and you leave, your career is significantly damaged. really interesting . just going really interesting. just going to press you one more time. yeah for you personally, is sarah full of all those periods or perhaps a different experience that affects you personally? you just saw, oh, my gosh, this is hard. this is half. i mean, it was obviously during lockdown . i was obviously during lockdown. i mean, and i think anybody watching my speeches in parliament would have would have said this is really hard for him

. i mean, i wasn't talking about myself. i was hopefully speaking out for those people who weren't allowed to a voice. people allowed to have a voice. people suffering silence, isolated suffering in silence, isolated at home with addictions, who didn't seem to get a look in when these decisions were being made. needs didn't made. their health needs didn't seem to get a look but yeah, seem to get a look in. but yeah, it . and the reason it was hard. and the reason i think give voice to think i could give voice to their concerns was because was their concerns was because i was experiencing some of it myself. i mean, it was it was hard. it was hard for lots of people, much harder for people who, unlike me, were not living in nice large houses with with gardens. and i did that. these rules were being made by people mostly in nice houses with gardens . and we were expected gardens. and we were expected expecting people living in the top of tower blocks and in really difficult circumstances, maybe in difficult marriages, large families , small spaces to large families, small spaces to bounce along in the same jolly way that we were. and that was entirely unfair. that didn't seem to be a lot of compassion in the way we projected these

arguments. i took particular dislike to the phrase covidiots . it was just awful and divisive. there lots of people out there who are really struggling , who actually needed struggling, who actually needed to be out of their home for more than one hour of a day. have a really great way of expressing yourself. it was really great. energetic interview . charles energetic interview. charles walker, thank you. and good luck on the other side. thank you very much. thank you, gloria. coming up, christine mckinney, we're recommending you accept it because we don't think we can get anymore through negotiations . but they could also it .

christine and mckinney, you are leader of britain's biggest trade union. you represent hundreds of thousands of workers in the nhs , nurses, paramedics ,

in the nhs, nurses, paramedics, cleaners, porters, royal nhs manages . the government have manages. the government have made an offer to your members to those workers . should your those workers. should your members accept it? you're asking them right now. so here we are asking them to accept it. and this is for members who attend in england , because we've done in england, because we've done a dealin in england, because we've done a deal in scotland, we've had the strike. was successful, even strike. it was successful, even though, to be quite honest , we though, to be quite honest, we didn't bring it, that many members thought we did bring out some strategic groups like some very strategic groups like ambulance and a ambulance sector and a few hostilities finally forced hostilities that finally forced the government to come back and make us an offer. it may not be what everyone wants, but we felt it was enough to be actually go out and consult members and so it's what they had, 1400 pounds. kevin last year of this current year and the additional money is worth between . 1600 and about worth between. 1600 and about £3,000 up to the top. so taking west of 1400 pounds, that's we think a reason, you know,

signify an amount of money this year and. then it's 5% of that more for some categories for 22 sorry, 23, 24. we think that thatis sorry, 23, 24. we think that that is enough here to go and see to the two people who are members of unison who you know, as you say, they're the cleaners, the nurses, the paramedics, the occupational therapists, all, all the groups that we cover that actually it will be their decision whether to accept it or not what consultation just know we'll have the result by the middle of april if they accept it. that's the deal that's done. if they do not it then we've paused their strikes so we would restart them . so if your members don't accept the pay offer, you recommend that they do, some people will say it's not enough. what do you say to those people actually who say , don't vote for actually who say, don't vote for this deal? i can understand why people are unhappy, but it's not what talked for more. but, what we talked for more. but, you know, we are we are. but i also think there's a lot of armchair warriors out there,

people who like to tell those who actually take strike action and who can pay for this and who lost money when you took strike action . there's a lot people action. there's a lot people like to sit and give advising, just keep on taking strike action and everything will be fine , which is easy to do when fine, which is easy to do when you're kind of a spectator on the. but if you're actually the ones that came out on strike or , you didn't. you're the ones who were campaigning even for strike action and making all the noise . your hospital trust or noise. your hospital trust or health trust , i think it's for health trust, i think it's for them to decide , quite frankly, them to decide, quite frankly, rather than, you know , some of rather than, you know, some of the other people who want to give them advice. so you're optimistic or in your ideal world, a further round of strikes would not be necessary because the deal they offer will because the deal they offer will be accepted. well, that's what we that's what and it's their senior . so we we that's what and it's their senior. so we call them lea members . senior. so we call them lea members. it's a senior group with general health team who take the decision whether to make a recommendation or not. and they took a decision that

they can recommend acceptance because feel that as in often this offer to actually go and see two members you've got a clear choice. no, this is the offer from the government. we're recommending you accept it because we do not think we can get through negotiation get any more through negotiation . they could also reject it. . but they could also reject it. so two years ago you become the leader of the biggest union in britain . you're the first woman britain. you're the first woman to lead that union. why is it taken so long? well there's not a high turnover in general sectors . so unison a high turnover in general sectors. so unison is 30 years old this year. and i'm the fourth general secretary. so, you know , the three previous you know, the three previous ones remain . you know, the three previous ones remain. it's you know, the three previous ones remain . it's not something ones remain. it's not something that happens very often. my predecessor successfully ran through times to be general secretary members voted for them. you'd electrify vietnam. so, you know , it's just one of so, you know, it's just one of these things where you as you worked your way up to the

position, as you were , you held position, as you were, you held various positions in the union. were you ever subject to misogyny or sexism in your union? not so much in the union as in from people within the union, but my background is as an as a negotiator and, you know, 25 years ago, i was often the only women in the room and that included the employers. i was negotiating in was and all the unions that you were negotiating with. and so yeah, of course you get an element of misogyny, sexism, a of misogyny, sexism, a bit of harassment through then. but i have not really was then have to say not really was then my organisation i think my organisation and i think that's partly a bit set and the tone from the top and dave prentice , who was my predecessor prentice, who was my predecessor i think was very good at setting a tone of that kind of behaviour, just won't be tolerated . and so fortunately tolerated. and so fortunately i have an experienced degree it sort of harassment or a sick well an element of sexism goes

everywhere doesn't it? you as a woman, you feed into every word. i'm not trying to say we never have sexism within the union of course we do. but obviously standard organisations, i can't be accountable for them . i mean be accountable for them. i mean you're union like so many of us is a major donor to the labour party. what do members get for that cash? you know, it's a good question and one that we do ask ourselves. i have to say i'm very fact that very proud of the fact that we're part of the labour movement. feel that as that movement. i feel that as that intrinsic link between the labour movement and the labour party and the trade union movement. so i'm glad that movement. and so i'm glad that my associate is my union is associate is affiliated the labour party affiliated to the labour party and that we give them money because it's only in because it's the only show in town really . and i certainly town really. and i certainly want government in westminster want a government in westminster who will see unions as partners they work with and trying to resolve. that's a serious issues we've got in society at the moment and i think the only government i can see that will do this for us would be a labour government. and i also think, and i again i've been a

negotiator through , tory negotiator through, tory governments and through labour governments and through labour governments and through labour governments and in my experience whilst you don't always agree with them, you can certainly have an open and honest discussion with them. whereas for concerns is just for years the concerns is just wouldn't talk to us on a whole range of issues. they just refused to talk to trade unions or certainly to our union. have you good relationships you had any good relationships with conservative secretaries of state goods? were we too strong or what? i've had relationships and working relationships that you can you can you can have a full conversation with them. they'll listen to you. you know, i was head of sales for a number of years before that. i was head of years before that. i was head of education sector. and in the health team i took overjust as health team i took over just as andrew lansley became safety of state. so i've had relations show up and met every sector since andrew lansley health sector the apart from today's coffee because that was brief so i was into the brief list let's trust premiership and yeah of course you can i mean i will

i'll work with anyone the sample sessions that you find more difficult than others because the just one lesson, you know that they are looking over your shoulder all the time because they're to see who's they're trying to see who's important they're important or the they're doing it because textbook it because it's a textbook exercise. know, i met with exercise. you know, i met with the unions tech without having actually achieved or having a proper discussion with you . do proper discussion with you. do you think the labour party of a does a bit of that with the unions of prefer not to shout about its relationship with the union for fear that the accusations are out there in the pockets of the unions. that's an allegation the tories sometimes make. i can see why some people might feel a bit nervous about that, but i think the take to stand in this country and the actually people see the value of trade unions. my i would say to the labour party don't be afraid of seen to be close to the of being seen to be close to the to the trade union movement. actually i can't there's not a single union that i know who wants to do their own business or they employers that the west

because who wants that nobody wants the business that their members attend to feel you want it to succeed and if only governments would realise that that actually we are the ones who also want businesses and organise nations and public services to succeed . and we will services to succeed. and we will do what we can to make that happen because that's where members want. the people are members want. the people who are members want. the people who are members unions, whether members of unions, whether you're private sector you're in the private sector working a conflict or whether working in a conflict or whether you're working on a school, you want skills to be want your skills to be successful. you want the corporate to be successful, and trade unions have a part to play in that. and when the critics of unions say people aren't, you unions say people aren't, you union barons , you get paid huge union barons, you get paid huge salaries , you get these salaries, you get these incredible perks , you're not on incredible perks, you're not on the side . the workers . how do the side. the workers. how do you respond as a journalist , you respond as a journalist, john? unpaid. well, my salaries in the public domain, i get a car. i think that's in terms of perks. i take the media like a stereotype. but you don't really

match it, really. they're often they're often blokes . the number they're often blokes. the number of times i'm told or so and so, you know, he's he's a union volunteer that that's needed that and i think yet that's great and it's you know some of my colleagues the other my colleagues in the other unions are great at speaking up and fighting for members. and fighting for the members. i don't that, but i think don't mean that, but i think there's tendency to there's a kind of tendency to think either we're not effectively there because we're women, because perhaps we don't operate in the same way . we are operate in the same way. we are a bit more restrained, no great work , but we are. we don't. so work, but we are. we don't. so in the same we don't look the same. so i think sometimes people are stuck in the seventies and unions are often accused of that, but actually it's not us that stuck in the seventies. it's often tory politicians and right wing commentators who are stuck with the language of the seventies, accusing us of doing all sorts of things that we don't. and i think they find it difficult to deal with deal like me or deal with some deal like me or the other women leaders that i negotiate final question

negotiate with. final question what union general what do trade union general secretaries do for food ? me secretaries do for food? me personally, so i. i like music i like the opera and i don't see why somebody from a working class background i shouldn't like the opera . it's something like the opera. it's something i've come to fairly late in life, but i have to say i do like it. i also like to read and i like detective novels . i like i like detective novels. i like to cook and i like to walk . so to cook and i like to walk. so those are not in very easy to cooperate, pretty much like anybody else. but i would like to tell you, you know, that i've played some exotic instrument in my spare time. i don't . my spare time. i don't. christina mckinney, general secretary of unison, britain's biggest trade . thank you for us. biggest trade. thank you for us. insight into your world. thank you. thanks for watching. no show on easter sunday, but i'll be back with . three more great be back with. three more great political interviews for you on the 16th of april. a week on .

the 16th of april. a week on. sunday hello, i'm kate snow. and here is the latest forecast from the met office as we go for the next few days. for most of us, it is going to be dry. we've plenty of sunshine, but that will certainly lead to some frosty nights still. so here's the situation. we've got high pressure generally charge of pressure generally in charge of the weather, keeping things settled. but weather fronts always the always close by. across the north risk of north of here, still the risk of some splashes of from time some splashes of rain from time to time . so for the rest of for to time. so for the rest of for sunday, a lot of england and wales, end the day on a clear wales, we end the day on a clear and dry note in the clear skies will eventually spread their way into the night goes into scotland as the night goes on. but for northern ireland we're hang on some here on. but for northern ireland we'rthanks on some here on. but for northern ireland we'rthanks to some here on. but for northern ireland we'rthanks to a some here on. but for northern ireland we'rthanks to a lovely here on. but for northern ireland we'rthanks to a lovely breeze, iere and thanks to a lovely breeze, temperatures probably temperatures here probably remaining 5 to 6 degrees. remaining around 5 to 6 degrees. but certainly a touch but elsewhere certainly a touch of frost , at least in the of frost, at least in the countryside . but i set this up countryside. but i set this up for a lovely to the new working week lots of sunshine for the country . but again, northern country. but again, northern ireland hanging on to a little bit more with way of cloud here. so sunshine rather limited and

thanks that breeze, thanks to that breeze, temperatures probably not reaching higher in 9 to 11 reaching much higher in 9 to 11 degrees. but elsewhere in the sunshine after that cold start , sunshine after that cold start, we will see highs reaching 14, possibly 15 degrees. so feeling fairly time of fairly pleasant for the time of year into the evening . very year into the evening. very little changes really across england , scotland and wales. england, scotland and wales. lots of sunshine to end the day. but again, the cloud continuing across northern ireland and nice we go for the course of the night. we will actually start to see some rain arrive in here and that may well also just arrive into the far west of scotland as the goes on. but the night goes on. but elsewhere, under the clear skies, night to skies, another frosty night to come. but again, in the countryside, temperatures probably minus two, probably to around minus two, maybe . maybe even minus three degrees. but give us but that will again give us a fairly lovely start across england and wales and also eastern scotland and very little changes as we go for the course of the day. but for western scotland and northern ireland here, risk, some here, always the risk, some splashes this rain, splashes of rain and this rain, more eventually moving across alpha parts of the country as we go the middle of the week .

welcome back to gb news. it is 7:00. good evening to you. i'm karen armstrong in the gb newsroom. the home secretary suella braverman has rejected suggestions brexit has responsible for delays at the port of dover, as despite some passengers saying they had to queue for up to 16 hours to have their passports checked. holidaymakers trying to get away for easter are still facing delays of up to 8 hours, despite services being put on overnight . port officials have blamed delays on a lengthy immigration process . ms. braverman, process. ms. braverman, meanwhile , singled out meanwhile, singled out british—pakistani men over

concerns about grooming gangs