should you be able to sue your boss for not looking after you enough? and finally , an easter enough? and finally, an easter theme to this one, charity donations . do you think you donations. do you think you should keep them to yourselves or should you put them all over social media? one tory mp has done exactly that. let me know what you think. all of that to come tonight on dewbs& co with me, emily carver, sitting in for michelle but first, michelle dewberry. but first, let's get the latest news headunes let's get the latest news headlines from bethany elsey . headlines from bethany elsey. emily thank you. i am bethany elsey with your top stories from the gb newsroom. opposition politicians in scotland are urging the snp to be fully

transparent about its finances after it emerged the firm which aust after it emerged the firm which audits the party's accounts, has resigned . johnston carmichael resigned. johnston carmichael says it made the decision after reviewing its client portfolio earlier this week. the former snp chief executive, peter murrell, who is nicola sturgeon's husband , was arrested sturgeon's husband, was arrested by police investigating the party's finances. he was released without charge, pending further investigation . russia further investigation. russia has charged a us journalist with espionage . evan gershkovich, who espionage. evan gershkovich, who works for the wall street journal, is accused of trying to obtain russian military secrets on behalf of washington. he pleaded not guilty earlier this week and maintains means he was working as a journalist . working as a journalist. russia's foreign minister, sergei lavrov, says he was caught red handed, but president joe biden has described the claims of espionage as ridiculous and demanded his release . police in northern release. police in northern ireland are warning their officers could be targeted by

dissidents in londonderry this easter. that's ahead of a state visit by the us president, who's arriving in belfast on tuesday . arriving in belfast on tuesday. the psni says it's received a strong intelligence that attacks are being planned for bank houday are being planned for bank holiday monday. mi5 raised the terrorism threat level in the country to severe following the shooting of a senior detective, john caldwell . the labour party john caldwell. the labour party has stood by an advert that claims rishi sunak doesn't think child sex abusers should go to prison. labour posted the ad on twitter, pitching itself as the party of law and order. but it's drawn criticism from mps , with drawn criticism from mps, with senior tory ministers accusing labour of a vile and desperate attempt at campaigning . but attempt at campaigning. but shadow culture secretary lucy powell told gb news the pm should take responsibility . the should take responsibility. the digital graph that's based- c the digital graph that's based on it's digital graph that's based on n-s uke— digital graph that's based on n-s like a— digital graph that's based on it's like a skit,— digital graph that's based on it's like a skit, if— digital graph that's based on it's like a skit, if you like, or a take— it's like a skit, if you like, or a take on— it's like a skit, if you like, or a take on the- it's like a skit, if you like, or a take on the types of graphics— or a take on the types of graphics that— or a take on the types of graphics that the prime minister

himself— graphics that the prime minister himself produces— graphics that the prime minister himself produces about his own policies— himself produces about his own policies .— himself produces about his own poiicies . ani— himself produces about his own policies . and he's— himself produces about his own policies . and he's become famous policies. and he's become famous for producing— policies. and he's become famous for producing these— policies. and he's become famous for producing these kind of graphs— for producing these kind of graphs .— for producing these kind of graphs . api— for producing these kind of graphs . and so— for producing these kind of graphs . and so it's a it's a graphs. and so it's a it's a pike— graphs. and so it's a it's a ipks pp— graphs. and so it's a it's a take on that.— graphs. and so it's a it's a take on that. if- graphs. and so it's a it's a take on that. if it's personal, ii-s— take on that. if it's personal, ii-s perspppi— take on that. if it's personal, it's personal in— take on that. if it's personal, it's personal in the sense that iss— it's personal in the sense that is-s pips— it's personal in the sense that ipe-s pipe pup— it's personal in the sense that he's the guy who— it's personal in the sense that he's the guy who runs the wimpy.— he's the guy who runs the spupiip. he— he's the guy who runs the country. he is— he's the guy who runs the country. he is the prime iiipisisi— country. he is the prime minister and— country. he is the prime minister and the buck does stop wiiii— minister and the buck does stop wiiii iiim. — minister and the buck does stop wiiii iiim. a— minister and the buck does stop with him. a 16— minister and the buck does stop with him. a 16 year— minister and the buck does stop with him. ' ip : minister and the buck does stop with him. ' ip izzii: minister and the buck does stop with him. ' ip 5: with him. a 16 year old boy has been arrested on suspicion of murder after a 14 year old girl died in a fire at a block of flats in east london yesterday. the girl, named locally as tiffany, died at the scene in five. others were injured, but have since been discharged from hospital . emergency services hospital. emergency services were called to the blaze in newham at around 5:30 pm. it's being investigated as suspected arson . a 12 year old boy has arson. a 12 year old boy has been charged with the murder of a woman who died after being hit by a car in sheffield . 60 year by a car in sheffield. 60 year old marcia grant was hit by the car in the green hill area on wednesday evening . south wednesday evening. south yorkshire police says the boy , yorkshire police says the boy, who cannot be named for legal

reasons , will appear before reasons, will appear before sheffield court tomorrow . sheffield youth court tomorrow. 2 million british holidaymakers are expected to head overseas this easter weekend. meanwhile, the port of dover is warning those travelling could face two hour delays. ferry operator dfds urged travellers to allow for extra time to get through border control and check in. delays have been blamed on french officials carrying out extra checks as well as stamping uk passports following brexit. two israeli women have been shot in an attack on their car in the occupied west bank following a day of violence along the lebanese and gaza borders. in israeli army. video shows explosions on hamas weapon production sites and tunnels in retaliation for rocket attacks. it blamed on the islamist group. it blamed on the islamist group. it comes amid mounting confrontation in jerusalem dunng confrontation in jerusalem during the muslim holy month of ramadan , as well as the jewish ramadan, as well as the jewish passover holiday . the uk has passover holiday. the uk has appealed for de—escalation with

appealed for de—escalation with a foreign secretary, james cleverly saying both sides should negotiate . s club seven should negotiate. s club seven paul cattermole has passed away aged 46. only weeks after the pop qvoup aged 46. only weeks after the pop group announced a comeback toun pop group announced a comeback tour. in a statement issued by the family and the group, it said there are no words to describe their deep sadness as he was found yesterday at his home in dorset. police say his death is not being treated as suspicious. the band had hits in the 2000, including bring it all back and reach . you're up to back and reach. you're up to date on tv online dab+ radio and on tune in. this is gb news. now it's back to . it's back to. emily thank you, bethany. welcome to dewbs& co with me, emily now joining me tonight on good friday, the evening good friday,

my panel, alex dean, a political commentator , of course, and paul commentator, of course, and paul embry, a firefighter and writer. i a couple of messages i got a couple of messages saying you two are their favourite pair . that's very favourite pair. that's very nice. so perhaps others agree. let me know you like these two. that's what people are saying. i think that was our parents propppiy— i think that was our parents- probably—brothers probably messaging in brothers and—your- and sisters who's your mum? brothers.— and sisters who's your mum? brothers, sisters? _ and sisters who's your mum? brothers, sisters? well,- and sisters who's your mum? brothers, sisters? well, people are know, kind. are feeling, you know, kind. they you too. so let's love they like you too. so let's love the they like you too. so let's love is easier— they like you too. so let's love the easter spirit. _ they like you too. so let's love the easter spirit. let's- "cap : so let's love the easter spirit. �*" the easter spirit. let's see if we some fiery debate. we can have some fiery debate. who you get in touch who knows? you can get in touch with us about all of the topics we discuss today. i want we want to discuss today. i want to know what think. firstly to know what you think. firstly about attack sunak. about labour's attack on sunak. it seem to be a rather it does seem to be a rather tasteless campaign suggesting that doesn't want to that rishi sunak doesn't want to see convicted in prison . i mean, see convicted in prison. i mean, it is just absolutely ludicrous . and even the left are saying it is hideous, tasteless , and it is hideous, tasteless, and doesn't belong in british politics. let me know what you think. we're also going to be talking about whether the britain has become an appalling country to raise children. that's because camilla tominey, who is a gb news presenter , of who is a gb news presenter, of course, she wrote an article . it

course, she wrote an article. it was very good article, was a very good article, actually. she wrote how actually. she wrote about how there's gender extremism in schools . there's horrible, nasty schools. there's horrible, nasty social media content that is making children depressed , crime making children depressed, crime on our streets, all sorts really a bit of an attack. but perhaps there's some truth to that. we'll debate that of course, lots more to come. but please do get in touch. gbviews@gbnews.uk or on twitter at gb news. so yes, our first topic, labour is on a mission to bring down rishi sunak. it seems with their new social media campaign two days into the row , the prime into the row, the prime minister's picture has been featured social featured on labour's social media accounts . the ad accuses media accounts. the ad accuses him of not wanting convicted to be locked up in prison. yesterday's tweet says do you think adults convicted of sexually assaulting children should go to prison? rishi sunak doesn't it? and then features the pm's signature today with the pm's signature today with the same photograph. they've doubled down. the poster asks, do you think an adult convicted of possessing a gun with intent to harm should go to prison

before again answering rishi sunak doesn't complete with his signature once again. so alex, let's start with you. let's just get your view on this. really look, the traditional- 95; " p really look, the traditional view is ppiiiiss— look, the traditional view is ppiiiiss is— look, the traditional view is ppiiiiss is p— look, the traditional view is politics is a contact sport. you know,— politics is a contact sport. you knew, eveepeip— politics is a contact sport. you know, everyone has a go at one ppeiiei. — know, everyone has a go at one another. people _ know, everyone has a go at one another. people go— know, everyone has a go at one another. people go negative in campaigns.— another. people go negative in campaigns. that's the just the pipe— campaigns. that's the just the pipe ei— campaigns. that's the just the nature of the— campaigns. that's the just the nature of the game . the nature of the game. the difference— nature of the game. the difference here is that the ippepp— difference here is that the ippepp epip— difference here is that the labour party of late notwithstanding, having a deputy iepiep— notwithstanding, having a deputy iepiep ppe— notwithstanding, having a deputy leader who goes— notwithstanding, having a deputy leader who goes around calling eveepepy— leader who goes around calling everyone scum at— leader who goes around calling everyone scum at the drop of a pai— everyone scum at the drop of a he ppe— everyone scum at the drop of a hat and having— everyone scum at the drop of a hat and having lots of members ppe— hat and having lots of members ppe spy— hat and having lots of members ppe spy pep— hat and having lots of members who say how much— hat and having lots of members who say how much they hate ippies— who say how much they hate ippies ppe— who say how much they hate tories hate, of— who say how much they hate tories hate, of course, being a ipppppsip— tories hate, of course, being a famously successful electoral eiesiipp— famously successful electoral election - has- famously successful electoral election has taken on a election strategy has taken on a ppppiie— election strategy has taken on a ppppiie pi— election strategy has taken on a mantle of kind— election strategy has taken on a mantle of kind of— election strategy has taken on a mantle of kind of moral sppepippiip— mantle of kind of moral superiority in- mantle of kind of moral superiority in the mood of, you pepp— superiority in the mood of, you pppp, ipep— superiority in the mood of, you pppp, ipep pp— superiority in the mood of, you know, they go low— superiority in the mood of, you know, they go low , we go high, know, they go low, we go high, you— know, they go low, we go high, pep pep,— know, they go low, we go high, pep pppp, ippi— know, they go low, we go high, you know, that sort of tradition of you know, that sort of tradition pi ipe — you know, that sort of tradition pi ipe pipp— you know, that sort of tradition of the high ground and. michelle oppre— of the high ground and. michelle obama. exactly.— of the high ground and. michelle obama. exactly. it— of the high ground and. michelle obama. exactly. it doesn't fit at obama. exactly. it doesn't fit pi pii— obama. exactly. it doesn't fit pi pii wiip— obama. exactly. it doesn't fit at all with that— obama. exactly. it doesn't fit at all with that tone. and i pep-t— at all with that tone. and i pep-t tpipp— at all with that tone. and i don't think it— at all with that tone. and i don't think it fits with the tee — don't think it fits with the tee pepp— don't think it fits with the tone that starmer has tried to ppppp— tone that starmer has tried to ppppplppe— tone that starmer has tried to adopt-the-grave,- tone that starmer has tried to adopt the grave, serious adopt of the more grave, serious pppp—ippes- adopt of the more grave, serious man times approach. man for serious times approach. app— man for serious times approach. app tppis— man for serious times approach. app pppp-s pep— man for serious times approach. and that's why it— man for serious times approach. and that's why it feels a bit ippipp— and that's why it feels a bit ippippltpe— and that's why it feels a bit jarring.-the real- and that's why it feels a bit jarring. the real reason jarring. but the real reason i tpipp— jarring. but the real reason i tpipk its— jarring. but the real reason i tpipk is p— jarring. but the real reason i think it's a mistake. i don't

pppppy— think it's a mistake. i don't nobody needs— think it's a mistake. i don't nobody needs to feel sorry for ipispi— nobody needs to feel sorry for ipispi spee— nobody needs to feel sorry for rishi sunak. he's— nobody needs to feel sorry for rishi sunak. he's the prime iiipistep— rishi sunak. he's the prime iiipistep pp— rishi sunak. he's the prime minister of the— rishi sunak. he's the prime minister of the country. he's ppipp— minister of the country. he's ppipp p— minister of the country. he's ppipp p pip— minister of the country. he's ppipp p pip pep.— minister of the country. he's doing a big job. people are going— doing a big job. people are going-a— doing a big job. people are going-a 90- doing a big job. people are going a go from time doing a big job. people are- going-a go from time to going to have a go from time to time — going to have a go from time to time ipe— going to have a go from time to time. the opposition may get it pepp— time. the opposition may get it pepp pp— time. the opposition may get it ppppp pp pep— time. the opposition may get it wrong or not. i'm— time. the opposition may get it wrong or not. i'm not asking for syppppppy— wrong or not. i'm not asking for syppppppp pep— wrong or not. i'm not asking for syppppppp pep pipp. — wrong or not. i'm not asking for sympathy for him. the reason i tpipk—is- sympathy for him. the reason i think—is that- sympathy for him. the reason i think—is that i. think it's a mistake is that i tpipp— think it's a mistake is that i think.shows_ think it's a mistake is that i thinklshows the- think it's a mistake is that i think shows the labour party think it shows the labour party is-ppppiep. — think it shows the labour party is-ppppiep. ip— think it shows the labour party is-rattled. if you- think it shows the labour party is rattled. if you believe is a bit rattled. if you believe peep— is a bit rattled. if you believe peep-streets— is a bit rattled. if you believe they streets ahead, if you they were streets ahead, if you peiievep— they were streets ahead, if you believed-some- they were streets ahead, if you believed - some of - they were streets ahead, if you. believed-some of-more believed where some of the more extreme— believed where some of the more expeppe ppiis— believed where some of the more extreme polls-been- believed where some of the more extreme polls been that extreme polls have been that spie— extreme polls have been that said,-guaranteed- extreme polls have been that said, guaranteed to win said, you're guaranteed to win the said, you're guaranteed to win tee—pii- said, you're guaranteed to win the—allltheirl the next election, all of their ppviseps— the next election, all of their advisers - saying - the next election, all of their advisers saying do advisers would be saying do peppe— advisers would be saying do nothing,-target,. advisers would be saying do nothing, target, don't nothing, play low target, don't esp— nothing, play low target, don't esp-pepp— nothing, play low target, don't rock-boat, stay— nothing, play low target, don't rock - boat, stay on - nothing, play low target, don't rock boat, stay on course. rock the boat, stay on course. wee— rock the boat, stay on course. wee-wip- rock the boat, stay on course. wee-pip i- rock the boat, stay on course. we're-win. i think. we're going to win. i think they-ve— we're going to win. i think they've-looking- we're going to win. i think they've looking the they've been looking at the preferred— they've been looking at the preferred prime— they've been looking at the preferred prime minister peppe— preferred prime minister polling, which has sunak a iipie— polling, which has sunak a iipie-ipt- polling, which has sunak a little-lot ahead. little bit too. a lot ahead pepeppipp— little bit too. a lot ahead depending one little bit too. a lot ahead. depending -one you little bit too. a lot ahead- depending-one you look depending on which one you look at. depending on which one you look pp-i— depending on which one you look pp-i tpipk— depending on which one you look pp-i tpipk it— depending on which one you look at.-i think it shows- depending on which one you look at. i think it shows they're at. and i think it shows they're concerned about— at. and i think it shows they're concerned about sunak standing. at. and i think it shows they're concerme, about sunak standing. at. and i think it shows they're concerme, thisit sunak standing. at. and i think it shows they're concerme, this shows k standing. at. and i think it shows they're concerme, this shows labouring. so for me, this shows labour ippkipp— so for me, this shows labour looking—weak. - so for me, this shows labouri looking—weak. yes, looking a little bit weak. yes, i looking a little bit weak. yes, itpipk— looking a little bit weak. yes, i think there— looking a little bit weak. yes, i think there is— looking a little bit weak. yes, i think there is certainly some ppe— i think there is certainly some pptp pp— i think there is certainly some truth to that. _ i think there is certainly some truth to that. i— i think there is certainly some truth to that. e i think there is certainly some truth to that. "

by ppe— i don't think the british people by ppp pipe,— i don't think the british people by and large,-this- i don't think the british people by and large, this kind of by and large, like this kind of peppive— by and large, like this kind of negative campaigning. i think it's campaigning it's the sort of campaigning tppt— it's the sort of campaigning. tppt—psep it's the sort of campaigning- tppt—psep pp that we're we've become used to seeipp— that we're we've become used to seeipp-yepps— that we're we've become used to seeipp-yepps ip- that we're we've become used to seeing-years in the- seeing over the years in the ppitep— seeing over the years in the ppitep-ppt- seeing over the years in the united-butldon'tl seeing over the years in the united but don't think united states. but i don't think tppt— united states. but i don't think tppt pipi— united states. but i don't think tppt kipp pp— united states. but i don't think that kind of personalised pepppive— that kind of personalised negative attack is something tppt— negative attack is something tppt pe— negative attack is something that we necessarily see a lot of pee.— that we necessarily see a lot of pee. app— that we necessarily see a lot of pee. app i— that we necessarily see a lot of here. and i don't— that we necessarily see a lot of here. and i don't think it pppippippiy— here. and i don't think it particularly resonates with the pppiis— particularly resonates with the pppiis .— particularly resonates with the pppiis . i— particularly resonates with the pppiip. i pep-p— particularly resonates with the public. i don't think it goes pepp— public. i don't think it goes pepp. ppp— public. i don't think it goes down. but american isn't. but it is very— down. but american isn't. but it is very ip-s— down. but american isn't. but it is pep its very— down. but american isn't. but it is very it's very american. down. but american isn't. but it isthink it's very american. down. but american isn't. but it isthink whatery american. down. but american isn't. but it isthink what peopleerican. down. but american isn't. but it isthink what people do an.they i think what people do is they ippk— i think what people do is they ippp pp— i think what people do is they ippp pp ppis— i think what people do is they look at this kind— i think what people do is they look at this kind of personal izep— look at this kind of personal izep vpppp— look at this kind of personal ized yarbu played around call in pipp— ized yarbu played around call in names, kind of— ized yarbu played around call in names, kind of politics, and they— names, kind of politics, and the pe— names, kind of politics, and they are generally , i think, they are generally, i think, spipspep— they are generally, i think, switched off— they are generally, i think, switched off by— they are generally, i think, switched off by it because they ppipp— switched off by it because they ppipk, ippp— switched off by it because they think, look, this— switched off by it because they think, look, this doesn't really resonate with— think, look, this doesn't really resonate with me— think, look, this doesn't really resonate with me in my life and my spess— resonate with me in my life and my spess ppp— resonate with me in my life and my stress and strains and the pepp— my stress and strains and the issues that are— my stress and strains and the issues that are vexing me at the pppppepp — issues that are vexing me at the pppppepp ip— issues that are vexing me at the moment. if you're— issues that are vexing me at the moment. if you're in the middle of moment. if you're in the middle pp p— moment. if you're in the middle pp p pesp— moment. if you're in the middle pp p pesp pp— moment. if you're in the middle of a cost of living— moment. if you're in the middle of a cost of living crisis, if ppe— of a cost of living crisis, if ppe epy— of a cost of living crisis, if the economy is- of a cost of living crisis, if the economy is failing, if peppie— the economy is failing, if peppie ppp-p— the economy is failing, if people can't on the housing people can't get on the housing ipppep— people can't get on the housing ipppeplppey— people can't get on the housing ladder-they can't— people can't get on the housing ladder they can't get their ladder or they can't get their ppepppipp—pp- ladder or they can't get their operation—or get| ladder or they can't get their. operation—or get in operation on the nhs or get in to operation on the nhs or get in pp see— operation on the nhs or get in pp ppeip— operation on the nhs or get in to see their gp,— operation on the nhs or get in to see their gp, those are the sppps— to see their gp, those are the spppslppipps— to see their gp, those are the sorts-things that- to see their gp, those are the sorts things that people want sorts of things that people want ppeip— sorts of things that people want their politicians— sorts of things that people want their politicians to _ sorts of things that people want their politicians to be discussing— their politicians to be discussing arguing their politicians to be discussing-arguing and discussing and arguing about and pepppipp— discussing and arguing about and debating-comes- discussing and arguing about and debating-comes to- discussing and arguing about and debating comes to stuff debating when it comes to stuff like debating when it comes to stuff pipe ppis— debating when it comes to stuff pipe ppis i— debating when it comes to stuff like this, i think— debating when it comes to stuff like this, i think-a- debating when it comes to stuff like this, i think a big like this, i think it's a big pppp— like this, i think it's a big

pppp pp— like this, i think it's a big turn off now.— like this, i think it's a big turn off now. i— like this, i think it's a big turn off now. i mean, it may be, it turn off now. i mean, it may be, ip pppy— turn off now. i mean, it may be, ip pppy pe— turn off now. i mean, it may be, ip pppy pe pppp— turn off now. i mean, it may be, it may be what alex says, it may be it may be what alex says, it may ppe peppse— it may be what alex says, it may be because the— it may be what alex says, it may be because the labour party is ppppiep— be because the labour party is ppppiep-ipsp- be because the labour party is rattled.-just the- rattled. it may be just the ppppispipp— rattled. it may be just the particular advertising executive got particular advertising executive app-ppppiep— particular advertising executive got-carried - but- particular advertising executive got carried but it's got a bit carried away. but it's pep-p— got a bit carried away. but it's pep-p i— got a bit carried away. but it's wpppe ippipp— got a bit carried away. but it's wrong. ithink-a- got a bit carried away. but it's wrong. i think a misstep wrong. i think it's a misstep by the wrong. i think it's a misstep by ppe-ppe.— wrong. i think it's a misstep by the-party. having- the labour party. having said pppp—ipsp- the labour party. having said pppp—ipsp ip- the labour party. having said that—lost in the. that, it will be lost in the pipps— that, it will be lost in the wipps pp— that, it will be lost in the winds of time— that, it will be lost in the winds of time in a few days. ip-s— winds of time in a few days. it's interesting— winds of time in a few days. it's interesting that they ppvep-p— it's interesting that they haven't bothered to take it ppwp. — haven't bothered to take it ppwp. ipey— haven't bothered to take it down. they-thinkl haven't bothered to take it- down. they-think they're down. they clearly think they're going this. that is going to stick to this. that is interesting to— going to stick to this. that is interesting to this— 95 pg 5p£

government's record or what you pepseipeespp—p - perceive as being its record pepy— perceive as being its record even very aggressively. the mispppe— even very aggressively. the eppe—is.- even very aggressively. thei mistake_is,.the mistake they made is, is the personalise if the personalise ing part. and if the approach may make a catchy approach may make a less catchy poster, if the approach had been, sunak government been, you know, sunak government has sexual offenders has let x many sexual offenders out streets, it would out onto the streets, it would land the same message without saying written hinckley rishi sunak think go to sunak doesn't think should go to prison as matter of fact prison now. as a matter of fact , sunak , i don't believe rishi sunak has to . moreover, none has sympathy to. moreover, none of actually think the labour of us actually think the labour party believes sunak has party believes rishi sunak has got any sympathy for no, no. and no sexual assault of spiipep— and no sexual assault of children-the. children and that's the ppspppipy— children and that's the. absurdity, -they children and that's the- absurdity,-they looked absurdity, right? if they looked at it as a government record and say this is what we claim to be the shortcoming government, say this is what we claim to be thwould:coming government, say this is what we claim to be thwould:coming ayvernment, say this is what we claim to be thwould:coming apowerful:, it would have been a powerful campaign. think the mistake, campaign. i think the mistake, which clever, which they thought was clever, was personalised it and try and pinning it to the prime minister. why it's minister. so that's why it's backfired. it them up backfired. it opens them up to screw boot.ini._ backfired. it opens them up to screw boot.ini. and— f ”in: it opens them up to screw boot.ini. and have screw boot.ini. and people have ppippep— screw boot.ini. and people have pointed _starmer. pointed out that keir starmer did pointed out that keir starmer pip sip— pointed out that keir starmer pip sip pp— pointed out that keir starmer did sit on the— pointed out that keir starmer did sit on the sentencing cppppii— did sit on the sentencing cppppii .— did sit on the sentencing council . we— did sit on the sentencing council . we didn't prosecute two council. we didn't prosecute two yepps— council. we didn't prosecute two yepps ppp— council. we didn't prosecute two yepps ppp ppp— council. we didn't prosecute two yepps ppp ppp pepy— council. we didn't prosecute two years and got very upset when it ppippep— years and got very upset when it was pointed out— years and got very upset when it was pointed out and that was of course criticised— was pointed out and that was of course criticised at— was pointed out and that was of course criticised at the time as a party— course criticised at the time as p ppppy pppppp— course criticised at the time as a party attack-the. a party attack line from the conservatives— a party attack line from the conservatives and, and he was sippipp— conservatives and, and he was sippipp pp— conservatives and, and he was sippipp pp ppe— conservatives and, and he was sitting on the sentencing cppppii— sitting on the sentencing council two _ sitting on the sentencing council two years rishi council two years before rishi spppp— council two years before rishi sunak-became- council two years before rishi sunak became an mp. so

sunak even became an mp. so a lot sunak even became an mp. so a ipp pp— sunak even became an mp. so a ipp pp ppis— sunak even became an mp. so a lot of this predates— sunak even became an mp. so a lot of this predates there's no pp— lot of this predates there's no pp p— lot of this predates there's no more of a straight line between ipispi— more of a straight line between ipispi spppp— more of a straight line between rishi sunak and— more of a straight line between rishi sunak and the fact that peppie— rishi sunak and the fact that some people have sexually pssppipep— some people have sexually assaulted children. ji5i" e 95» assaulted children. don't go to pipe — assaulted children. don't go to prison. then there was between keir starmer and fact that keir starmer and the fact that jemmy wasn't prosecuted. jemmy savile wasn't prosecuted. so danger for the so that's a danger for the labour . you know, labour party. you know, they reared against any suggestion reared up against any suggestion that keir starmer is the head of the dpp of the director of pubuc the dpp of the director of public prosecutions at the time was somehow response able for jemmy savile not being prosecuted? well, if you're going to play that game , people going to play that game, people are going to now point the finger at you for making essentially the same of essentially the same kind of accusation against the differences with the decision to go ahead not with the go ahead or not with the prosecution of a high profile celebrity. it's much more likely pppp— celebrity. it's much more likely pppp i-pp— celebrity. it's much more likely pppp i-pp ppp— celebrity. it's much more likely that i'm not saying— f cap it's much more likely that i'm not saying starmer was at that i'm not saying starmer was pp pii,— that i'm not saying starmer was pp pii, ppp— that i'm not saying starmer was pp pii, ppp ip-s— that i'm not saying starmer was at all, but it's much more iipeiy— at all, but it's much more iipeiy pp— at all, but it's much more likely at least,- at all, but it's much more likely at least, that the piesppp— likely at least, that the director of— likely at least, that the director of public prosecutions pips—ip- director of public prosecutions pps—ip pepp- was involved, that it went. across -for approval was involved, that it went- across -for approval as across his desk for approval as to across his desk for approval as pp-pp— across his desk for approval as pp-pp ppp— across his desk for approval as pp-pp ppp-pp- across his desk for approval as| to-or not-go ahead. to whether or not to go ahead. ipispi— to whether or not to go ahead. ipispi spppp— to whether or not to go ahead. rishi sunak-not— to whether or not to go ahead. rishi sunak not sitting in rishi sunak is not sitting in appppep— rishi sunak is not sitting in number signing rishi sunak is not sitting in- number-signing-the number ten, signing off on the ippppisppppepp— number ten, signing off on the imprisonment or— number ten, signing off on the imprisonment or not of sexual pppeppipp— imprisonment or not of sexual pppeppipp. — imprisonment or not of sexual pppeppipp. i— imprisonment or not of sexual offending. i don't— imprisonment or not of sexual offending. :i5i" e 05:6 offending. i don't think there is evidence that starmer

is any evidence that starmer that saying in your that i'm saying in your comparison, is more comparison, which is more likely. yeah, it's obviously ip-s—ppei it's plainly more likely the dpp is-ip— it's plainly more likely the dpp is-in-prosecutionl is involved in the prosecution of is involved in the prosecution pp-pp— is involved in the prosecution pp-pp p— is involved in the prosecution pp-pp p pipp- is involved in the prosecution of of a high profile of a and not of a high profile pesp— of a and not of a high profile pesp ppppp — of a and not of a high profile person from my— of a and not of a high profile person from my memory, rishi spppp— person from my memory, rishi spppp-pevep— person from my memory, rishi sunak-never-the. sunak was never within the ypspipe— sunak was never within the ipspipe-ppp- sunak was never within the justice-nor the- sunak was never within the justice nor the home justice ministry nor the home eppse.— justice ministry nor the home office. — justice ministry nor the home office. ap— justice ministry nor the home office. pp .— justice ministry nor the home office. no . and— justice ministry nor the home office. \i5i : pg office. no. and anything that would be charge of would be in charge of sentencing. we saw on your sppppei— sentencing. we saw on your channel earlier— sentencing. we saw on your channel earlier an- pg we saw on your channel earlier an interview ppipp— channel earlier an interview wipp p— channel earlier an interview with a leading— channel earlier an interview with a leading labour figure spyipp—ip-s- with a leading labour figure saying—it's beeni saying the reason it's been pepspppi— saying the reason it's been pepspppi is— saying the reason it's been personal is that- saying the reason it's been personal is that the man in personal is that he's the man in pppppe— personal is that he's the man in pppppe ppp— personal is that he's the man in pppppe ppp ip— personal is that he's the man in charge and in-end,- personal is that he's the man in charge and in end, the buck charge and in the end, the buck sppps— charge and in the end, the buck epps—pipi- charge and in the end, the bucki sppps—piii-pp stops there. people will make up ppeip— stops there. people will make up their—whether- stops there. people will make up their—whetherlnotl their own minds whether or not it's overreach _ their own minds whether or not it's overreach labour, the it's overreach from labour, the ppppp— mood in most most people mood in most for most people seems-overreach.- mood in most for most people seems overreach. but seems to be it is overreach. but peppepseiy— seems to be it is overreach. but perversely,ithink_ seems to be it is overreach. but perversely, think i'm a bit perversely, i think i'm a bit —pep- perversely, i think i'm a biti more _to labour more sympathetic to labour than you more sympathetic to labour than ypp-pp— more sympathetic to labour than ypp-pp ppis— more sympathetic to labour than ypp-pp ppis ip— more sympathetic to labour than you-on this, in that- more sympathetic to labour than you on this, in that i think you are on this, in that i think ppee— you are on this, in that i think ppepe is— you are on this, in that i think there is room— you are on this, in that i think there is room public there is room in public pisppse— there is room in public discourse for- there is room in public discourse for robust criticism of discourse for robust criticism pp pppeppppepp— discourse for robust criticism of government records. i pspppiiy— of government records. i actually don't- of government records. i actually don't think i agree pipp— actually don't think i agree ppp-i— actually don't think i agree pipp-i pepp- actually don't think i agree with-i agree. i- actually don't think i agreei with-i agree. i mean, with that. i agree. i mean, that's the way they've done it. absolutely. fair absolutely. governments are fair game ministers game and prime ministers are fair not fair game. i'm not i'm not suggesting that. but i think when the public deems that it's a personal attack, not necessarily person's necessarily on the person's record, but and clearly this wasn't on sunak record because he responsible for the he isn't responsible for the things labour accused him things that labour accused him of you're trying to

of, where you're just trying to attack the person in a negative sense and personalising in sense and personalising it in that direct way. i think that's what turns people. tony benn always never wrestle always used to say never wrestle with chimney, sweep an and with a chimney, sweep an and what he was essentially saying is don't fight dirty in politics because if you do, because because if you do, you because someone you. someone else is doing it to you. if wrestle them, you're if you wrestle with them, you're going dirty expression. going to get dirty expression. but that is a great expression . but that is a great expression. ip-s— but that is a great expression. ip-s pisp— but that is a great expression. ip-s pisp ppipe— but that is a great expression. it's also quite interesting. i pps—ppppsei it's also quite interesting. i. was—browse of was having a little browse of ppe— was having a little browse of ppe ippppp— was having a little browse of the labour party's social media accounts looking— the labour party's social media accounts looking their accounts looking at their pppepppp,— accounts looking at their facebook, example. it is all facebook, for example. it is all pppepe-— facebook, for example. it is all crime.-are going- facebook, for example. it is all crime. are going crime, crime. they are going crime, crime, crime. we— crime. they are going crime, crime, crime. we are tough on wpy— crime, crime. we are tough on wpy pe— crime, crime. we are tough on crime. why are they doing this? apex— crime. why are they doing this? apex eeip.— crime. why are they doing this? apex vieii. i— crime. why are they doing this? alex well, i think— crime. why are they doing this? alex well, i think there's- crime. why are they doing this? alex well, i think there's two reasons. one, the conservative party traditionally party has traditionally been viewed law and viewed as a party of law and order. trying to defang viewed as a party of law and orde to trying to defang viewed as a party of law and orde to and trying to defang viewed as a party of law and orde to and given ng to defang viewed as a party of law and orde to and given ng �*keirefang that to and given its keir starmer and they'll starmer background, and they'll presumably have some presumably have seen some polling gone polling seeing they've gone ahead traditional ahead of their traditional position and order. position on law and order. they're trying to double down on that. they're they think that. and they're they think this is the message for them at the elections, to the local elections, both to defang tory message on law defang the tory message on law and push their own and order and push their own position, is apparently position, which is apparently polling they must have seen, saying doing quite well.

saying they're doing quite well. it does make sense to have a disciplined campaign. does disciplined campaign. it does make focus your make sense to try and focus your efforts on something. and efforts on on something. and actually, think about the actually, if you think about the sclerotic the corbyn sclerotic nature of the corbyn era, this is just viewing campaigns in a more kind of at one remove, it's a demonstrate of how far the labour party has come that they can exercise this kind of message discipline and stay on target. now on this example, it had a bit of blowback because of the silliness of the posters they've done, but they're campaigning pretty yeah, well, pretty well. oh yeah, well, i ip— pretty well. oh yeah, well, i ip is— pretty well. oh yeah, well, i mean it is very— oh yeah, well, i mean it is very interesting peppse— mean it is very interesting because a lot— mean it is very interesting because a lot of members within the because a lot of members within ppe ippppp— because a lot of members within the labour party— because a lot of members within the labour party would want a spe— the labour party would want a spppeplppippe— the labour party would want a softer crime approach, softer on crime approach, a pippeepp— softer on crime approach, a different approach, less different approach, a less less concentration— different approach, a less less concentration on _ different approach, a less less concentration on sentencing and ppppipp— concentration on sentencing and banging pebble— concentration on sentencing and banging people up and more on rehabilitation— banging people up and more on rehabilitation and, and, you know,— rehabilitation and, and, you pppp, ppsp— rehabilitation and, and, you know, cost of— rehabilitation and, and, you know, cost of living more , more know, cost of living more, more epesp ypppp — know, cost of living more, more centres, youth centres , that centres, youth centres, that sppp— centres, youth centres, that sppp pp— centres, youth centres, that sppp pp ppipp— centres, youth centres, that sort of thing. _ centres, youth centres, that sort of thing. wick sort of thing. well, trust me, emily, as someone inside the labour party and active in the labour movement for many years, there will be many people in the labour party incandescent at this type of campaign. i mean, these sort people who these are the sort of people who don't who when starmer

don't forget who when starmer shortly after he took and shortly after he took over and he couple of speeches in he gave a couple of speeches in front union, jack accused front of the union, jack accused him fascism. him of embracing fascism. you know, it's own flag, some know, it's our own flag, some sort of far right leader, because in front because he was standing in front of nation's flag when of our own nation's flag when he was a speech. so the was giving a speech. so the trouble-people - was giving a speech. so the trouble-people of- was giving a speech. so the trouble-people of thej trouble is, it's people of the traditional— trouble is, it's people of the traditional-who- trouble is, it's people of the traditional who may say, traditional left who may say, pipe— traditional left who may say, like yourself,— traditional left who may say, like yourself, that this ppessppipp— like yourself, that this messaging aimed by messaging is aimed at by spppppep— starmer, who have been so pepiespep— starmer, who have been so- neglected-leadership neglected by labour leadership in neglected by labour leadership ip—ppeip- neglected by labour leadership in _their woke. in recent times for their woke pipp— in recent times for their woke pipp pp— in recent times for their woke kind of literati _ in recent times for their woke kind of literati agenda instead of kind of literati agenda instead pp iispepipp— kind of literati agenda instead of listening to— kind of literati agenda instead of listening to their traditional- of listening to their traditional grass roots because the traditional— traditional grass roots because the traditional labour grass epps— the traditional labour grass roots are very— the traditional labour grass roots are very up for law and pppep— roots are very up for law and order campaign.— roots are very up for law and order campaign. well the reality is ippppp— order campaign. well the reality is labour were _ order campaign. well the reality is labour were annihilated at ppe— is labour were annihilated at the-election— is labour were annihilated at the-election and- is labour were annihilated at the election and have been the 2019 election and have been ipsipp— the 2019 election and have been ipsipp-ppppipp— the 2019 election and have been losing working class vote in losing the working class vote in ppis— losing the working class vote in ppis-ppp— losing the working class vote in ppis-ppp ppppy- losing the working class vote in this for many years. this country for many years. app— this country for many years. app ip— this country for many years. app ip pipe-p— this country for many years. and it didn't-with- this country for many years. i and it didn't-with corbyn, and it didn't start with corbyn, by way. no, no, goes back by the way. no, no, it goes back to corbyn to some years before corbyn because they completely alienated working class voters. and. whereas working class voters interested in things voters were interested in things like the economy and job security and national security, and having strong borders and law and order and that kind of thing, labour looks upon those sorts of people as as if they were embarrassing elderly

relatives. they didn't share those priorities. they thought they were sort of uncouth and reactionary. what starmer reactionary. and what starmer has understood is that in order to win back the hearts and minds of you've to of those people, you've got to start speaking mind. i start speaking their mind. i can't but think it's all can't help but think it's all pis— can't help but think it's all his pis— can't help but think it's all his. his essentially just trying to his. his essentially just trying pp pppepi— his. his essentially just trying to appeal whoever he can, and to appeal to whoever he can, and he ppesp-p— to appeal to whoever he can, and he doesn't believe— to appeal to whoever he can, and he doesn't believe what he's spyipp. — he doesn't believe what he's spyipp. |ppipp— he doesn't believe what he's saying. ithinkllot- he doesn't believe what he's saying. think lot of people saying. i think a lot of people pppipp-p— saying. i think a lot of people wouldn't-him _ saying. i think a lot of people wouldn't him crime wouldn't trust him on crime pesessppiiy— wouldn't trust him on crime necessarily,-his- necessarily, despite his pepipps— necessarily, despite his i previous-position. previous previous position. prepp— previous previous position. well,-always- well, there's always a difference _ well, there's always a difference between the rhetoric ppp— difference between the rhetoric ppp ppe— difference between the rhetoric and the reality. _ difference between the rhetoric and the reality. ”p55; lap " and the reality. the reality in terms of delivery and my fear for the labour party is, look, you can send all right you can send all the right messaging about law and order and crime, but unless and fighting crime, but unless you to do the you are prepared to do the really radical fundamental things necessary in things that are necessary in this country make it safer, this country to make it safer, do you know what the tories are going to do? they're going to be ppspipp— going to do? they're going to be ppspipp pppp— going to do? they're going to be posting that picture— going to do? they're going to be posting that picture of- 95» pg :i5i7’ they're going to be posting that picture of keir spppppep— posting that picture of keir starmer and— posting that picture of keir starmer and angela rayner on ppeip— starmer and angela rayner on peep-ppipp— starmer and angela rayner on their-which will- starmer and angela rayner on their which will rather their knee us, which will rather pippipisp— their knee us, which will rather pippipisp pp— their knee us, which will rather diminish or distract from their new crime. you've- diminish or distract from their new crime. /5i. 95» diminish or distract from their new crime. /5. 95 diminish or distract from their new crime. 45. 95 i5i" diminish or distract from their new crime. 45. 95 5“ 5“ new crime. you've got one on, on one hand. on the one hand you've, you've really got a point because the kind of people you to with message

point because the kind of people yespecially to with message point because the kind of people y especially on nith message point because the kind of people yespecially on the message point because the kind of people yespecially on the traditionalige , especially on the traditional left precisely of left, are precisely the kind of people labour's people who found labour's messaging immigration. messaging on immigration. whatever more whatever you think of it more broadly, repellent that broadly, quite repellent that their about protecting broadly, quite repellent that theiborders about protecting broadly, quite repellent that theiborders and about protecting broadly, quite repellent that theiborders and trying protecting broadly, quite repellent that theiborders and trying to ytecting broadly, quite repellent that theiborders and trying to stopng our borders and trying to stop illegal immigration to this country and a relatively unsympathetic perspective on asylum seeking and refugees coming to the united kingdom. that very same cohort want a strong message on law and order and will find themselves asking, well, given that i don't like your messaging on immigration and don't believe in it, do i actually believe it? when you say on say these things about crime? on the hand , and i don't i the other hand, and i don't i haven't seen this, but i suspect that people who who are exercised about law and order are more likely to vote at local elections than than the population at large. i bet you there's some polling out there that's probably says people who care about this kind of issue vote i doubt very vote at locals. i doubt very much see a big focus on much you'll see a big focus on crime come general election. crime come the general election. i a focus for now, i think this is a focus for now, the antisocial behaviour, the petty but they are going petty crime. but they are going seppi— petty crime. but they are going sexual assault. _ petty crime. but they are going sexual assault. the- if.” but they are going sexual assault. the truth is that and order very quickly

that law and order very quickly we have to i've always we have to go to i've always been class issue been a working class issue because working been a working class issue becalcommunities working been a working class issue becalcommunities more)rking been a working class issue becalcommunities more than| been a working class issue becalcommunities more than any class communities more than any middle class. very so. but middle class. very much so. but it also affects labour run- it also affects labour run sppppiis— it also affects labour run- councils—conservative councils more than conservative run councils more than conservative ppp—pepppps- councils more than conservative ppp—pepppps pppp-s run councils. but perhaps that's peppppppppips— run councils. but perhaps that's demographics-you- run councils. but perhaps that's demographics you at home. demographics from you at home. apps— demographics from you at home. ipps pp— demographics from you at home. ipps pp peppie— demographics from you at home. lots of people have been getting in lots of people have been getting ip pppep— lots of people have been getting ip pppsp. ip— lots of people have been getting in touch. it seems— lots of people have been getting in touch. it seems there in touch. it seems that there pepp—- in touch. it seems that there pepp— this-i are lots of opinions on this. pppep— are lots of opinions on this. apep spys. — are lots of opinions on this. apep spys. i— are lots of opinions on this. karen says. i am- are lots of opinions on this. karen says. i am disgusted. keir spppppep— karen says. i am disgusted. keir spppppep .— karen says. i am disgusted. keir spppppep . ppp— karen says. i am disgusted. keir starmer , who shouldn't be called starmer, who shouldn't be called sir, starmer, who shouldn't be called sip-spppip— starmer, who shouldn't be called sir,-should be- starmer, who shouldn't be called sir, should be thrown sir, she says, should be thrown out sir, she says, should be thrown ppp pp— sir, she says, should be thrown out of politics— sir, she says, should be thrown out of politics altogether. pepppps— out of politics altogether.| perhaps—harsh, out of politics altogether.- perhaps_harsh, but perhaps that's a bit harsh, but sppppp— perhaps that's a bit harsh, but sepp-— perhaps that's a bit harsh, but sppppp- iippp— perhaps that's a bit harsh, but strong . mark great strong stuff. mark says great ppipisp—is- strong stuff. mark says great british—is in. british politics today is in pespepppe— british politics today is ini desperate _the desperate trouble. not the conservative _ desperate trouble. not the conservative government, the ippppp— conservative government, the ippppp ppppy— conservative government, the labour party corruption must be spppspep— labour party corruption must be spppspep ppp— labour party corruption must be smashed and chris— labour party corruption must be smashed and chris says the nasty party— smashed and chris says the nasty ppppy ippppp— smashed and chris says the nasty party labour have— smashed and chris says the nasty party labour have surely taken ppis— party labour have surely taken over this mantle.— party labour have surely taken over this mantle. well, a lot of peppie— over this mantle. well, a lot of peppie pp— over this mantle. well, a lot of peppie pp ppe— over this mantle. well, a lot of people on the left,— over this mantle. well, a lot of people on the left, a lot of ippppp— people on the left, a lot of labour commentators and mps. i ppipp— labour commentators and mps. i ppipp pppe— labour commentators and mps. i think have also— labour commentators and mps. i think have also said similar. so ppee— think have also said similar. so ppee-app— think have also said similar. so there-not many- think have also said similar. so there not many people there you go. not many people are there you go. not many people ipppessep— there you go. not many people are impressed this are impressed with this ppppippipp— are impressed with this particular campaign , but it's particular ad campaign, but it's got particular ad campaign, but it's ppp-ppippe— particular ad campaign, but it's got talking labour got us talking about labour ppsp-p— got us talking about labouri ppsp-p—pppp-s hasn't it? and perhaps that's ppe— hasn't it? and perhaps that's ppe-ppp— hasn't it? and perhaps that's the-but coming- hasn't it? and perhaps that's the but coming up, are the point. but coming up, are you— the point. but coming up, are ypp pppep— the point. but coming up, are you worried about raising your the point. but coming up, are you jinrried about raising your the point. but coming up, are you jin britain out raising your the point. but coming up, are you jin britain todayising your the point. but coming up, are you jin britain today with your kids in britain today with peppep— kids in britain today with gender extremism in schools, pppe— gender extremism in schools, pp ppe— gender extremism in schools, crime on the streets, malicious spppepp— crime on the streets, malicious spppepp pp— crime on the streets, malicious spppepp pp ppe— crime on the streets, malicious content on the internet? i'll be pspipp— content on the internet? i'll be pspipp py— content on the internet? i'll be pspipp ppy pppep— content on the internet? i'll be asking my panel, is britain a ppp— asking my panel, is britain a ppp spppppy— asking my panel, is britain a bad country to _ asking my panel, is britain a bad country to bring children up

in? bad country to bring children up ipp sppy— bad country to bring children up ipp sppy pppep— bad country to bring children up in? stay tuned ._ there's help for households. are you over state pension age? if your weekly income is below £182.60, or £278.70 if you live with a partner, you could be eligible for pension credit, even if you own your home or have savings. it's worth, on average, £3,500 a year and you could get help with heating bills and more, plus up to £900

in cost of living payments.

right. big question , is britain right. big question, is britain pesppipp— right. big question, is britain pesppipp pp— right. big question, is britain becoming an appalling country, at becoming an appalling country, pp pepsp— becoming an appalling country, at least when— becoming an appalling country, at least when it— becoming an appalling country, at least when it comes to ppisipp— at least when it comes to raising children? we're always seeipp— raising children? we're always seeing headlines— raising children? we're always seeing headlines saying that ppippip— seeing headlines saying that britain isn't— seeing headlines saying that britain isn't the— seeing headlines saying that britain isn't the best country to britain isn't the best country pp ppipp— britain isn't the best country pp ppipp pp— britain isn't the best country to bring up children , childcare to bring up children, childcare pssp— to bring up children, childcare costs, etcetera,_ to bring up children, childcare costs, etcetera, etcetera . but costs, etcetera, etcetera. but pisp— costs, etcetera, etcetera. but also extremism _ costs, etcetera, etcetera. but also extremism in sex education, pppppp— also extremism in sex education, pppppp ip— also extremism in sex education, taught in schools,— also extremism in sex education, taught in schools, increasing crime, street— taught in schools, increasing crime, street crime, violent crime. children— crime, street crime, violent crime. children have easy access to crime. children have easy access pp ippppppppippe— crime. children have easy access to inappropriate content on the ippeppep. — to inappropriate content on the ippeppep. sp— to inappropriate content on the internet. so is— to inappropriate content on the internet. so is anything going internet. so is anything going ip ppe— internet. so is anything going ip ppe pippp— internet. so is anything going in the right direction ? is in the right direction? is ppippip— in the right direction? is britain just— in the right direction? is britain just all doom and gloom? spppip— britain just all doom and gloom? spppip pe— britain just all doom and gloom? should we move— britain just all doom and gloom? should we move to— britain just all doom and gloom? should we move to other pppppies— should we move to other countries to _ should we move to other countries to raise our children? pps— countries to raise our children? pps ip— countries to raise our children? pps ip ppp— countries to raise our children? pps ip ppp pppp— countries to raise our children? has it got that bad or, you pppe— has it got that bad or, you know, are you— has it got that bad or, you know, are you sick of people ppipipp— know, are you sick of people ppipipp pppp— know, are you sick of people talking down our country? paul, pp-vpe— talking down our country? paul, pp-ppe ppp— talking down our country? paul, you've got strong— talking down our country? paul, you've got strong feelings on ppis.— you've got strong feelings on ppis. prepp— you've got strong feelings on ppis. war, i— you've got strong feelings on this. well, i mean , look, the this. well, i mean, look, the ppppp— this. well, i mean, look, the ppppp is.— this. well, i mean, look, the ppppp is i— this. well, i mean, look, the truth is, i think— this. well, i mean, look, the truth is, i think we are a pppipp— truth is, i think we are a pppipp ip— truth is, i think we are a nation in decline. i think we

peep— nation in decline. i think we need to be absolutely honest about that. i think social mobility, for example, is now in reverse. i think we've got a political class that is distinctly mediocre compared to our political establishments of many years ago . whether you many years ago. whether you agree with them or not, they were people with gravitas and intelligence . and i think by and intelligence. and i think by and large today many mps, even though they i think most of them are fundamentally decent people and work hard , i think are and work hard, i think are distinctly average. and the truth is, look, nothing really works properly. you know , if you works properly. you know, if you look around the country today , look around the country today, i've said before, it's almost got the kind of feel of the last days of pompeii about the whole thing, where things just seem to be falling apart. thing, where things just seem to be falling apart . the be slowly falling apart. the police don't do that. i can hear everyone police don't do that. i can hear eepyppe pppe— police don't do that. i can hear everyone home at— police don't do that. i can hear everyone home at home,- 95; l i can hear everyone home at home, opening up everyone home at home, opening pp pppppep— everyone home at home, opening up another bottle— everyone home at home, opening up another bottle of wine at ppis— up another bottle of wine at ppis ippe.— up another bottle of wine at this rate, misery,— up another bottle of wine at this rate, misery, guts and paul ppp— this rate, misery, guts and paul ppp peppipp— this rate, misery, guts and paul ppp peppipp ppe— this rate, misery, guts and paul and getting the miserable. pppipp— and getting the miserable. pppipp ppe— and getting the miserable. c5 “9 well, getting the revolver. well, i was going to getting the revolver. well, i ppipp pp spy— c5.. “9 well, i was going to say slitting their ppisps— was going to say slitting their ppisps ppp— was going to say slitting their wrists, but that— was going to say slitting their wrists, but that was a bit. i ppppppp— wrists, but that was a bit. i thought that'd_ wrists, but that was a bit. i thought that'd be a bit. 5“ “95

thought that'd be a bit. things ppp-p— thought that'd be a bit. things ppp-p ppip— thought that'd be a bit. things ppp-p pspp. ypp— thought that'd be a bit. things don't work, you know, the police don't work, you know, the police don't their job. the don't work, you know, the police don't theirjob. the nhs don't do theirjob. the nhs is falling apart. to wait. falling apart. you have to wait. goodness to get a goodness knows how long to get a gp's appointment. the economy is in think that by in crisis and i think that by and large people kind of sense that we are not the power that we and that there's an we were and that there's an element decline about element of real decline about the country. and it's sad, but it's true. now i am asking this . iii— it's true. now i am asking this . iii-ypp— it's true. now i am asking this . iii-ypp pe— it's true. now i am asking this . i'll-you come back- . now i am asking this . i'll you come back to . i'll let you come back to pepp— . i'll let you come back to pppp-i-pp— . i'll let you come back to that, i'm hoping . i'll let you come back to that,-i'm hoping might that, alex. i'm hoping you might be that, alex. i'm hoping you might ppe—pppe— that, alex. i'm hoping you might be_more optimistic. be a little bit more optimistic ppppp— be a little bit more optimistic about-because,- be a little bit more optimistic about because, you about the future because, you pppip— about the future because, you pppw .— about the future because, you pppw . i— about the future because, you pppw . i pp — about the future because, you know , i do intend at some point know, i do intend at some point to know, i do intend at some point pp-spppe— know, i do intend at some point to-some children- know, i do intend at some point to-some children _toj to bring some children going to be to bring some children going to ppe-peppie— to bring some children going to pe-pepppive .— to bring some children going to be negative . don't want be more negative. i don't want to be more negative. i don't want pp pppe— be more negative. i don't want pp ppvelpppve— be more negative. i don't want to have-move to— be more negative. i don't want to have move to another to have to move to another spppppy— to have to move to another country - decide - to have to move to another- country - decide i have country before i decide to have ppippep— country before i decide to have ppiippep . — country before i decide to have children . let's— country before i decide to have children . let's get- country before i decide to have children . let's get a- country before i decide to have children . 95 ” children. let's get a labour government. if you if you peiiepe— 9 if you if you believe government isn't going 9 if you if you be solve government isn't going 9 if you if you be solve it,overnment isn't going 9 if you if you be solve it, oviexpectingin't going 9 if you if you be solve it,oviexpecting moreying to solve it, is expecting more pepppive— to solve it, is expecting more negative than— to solve it, is expecting more negative than have your negative than paul have your pisp— negative than paul have your first-suicide- negative than paul have your first-suicide at- negative than paul have your first suicide at gb first on air suicide at gb views. — first on air suicide at gb views. what's- first on air suicide at gb views. “7 first on air suicide at 6b. views. what's the point? i'll remind viewers. that's why remind our viewers. that's why i'm it. remind our viewers. that's why in -ip. ipp— remind our viewers. that's why i-pp-ip. i-pp ppyipp- remind our viewers. that's why i'm-it. i'm trying-set. i'm doing it. i'm trying to set you— i'm doing it. i'm trying to set ypp-apex.— i'm doing it. i'm trying to set you-alex.-remind- i'm doing it. i'm trying to set you alex. remind our you up, alex. i'll remind our viewers-talking. you up, alex. i'll remind our- viewers-talking about viewers why we're talking about ppis.— viewers why we're talking about ppis-pppipp- viewers why we're talking about this, camilla tominey, this, because camilla tominey, a peep— this, because camilla tominey, a fellow-presenter- this, because camilla tominey, a fellow-presenter ,- this, because camilla tominey, a fellow presenter , wrote this, because camilla tominey, a fecolumn presenter , wrote this, because camilla tominey, a fecolumn about presenter , wrote this, because camilla tominey, a fecolumn about how enter , wrote this, because camilla tominey, a fecolumn about how britain nrote this, because camilla tominey, a fecolumn about how britain isyte a column about how britain is peppppipp— a column about how britain is pesppipp pp— a column about how britain is becoming an appalling to becoming an appalling place to pise— becoming an appalling place to raise children. _ becoming an appalling place to raise children. \5iipi raise children. now, she was focusing on mostly the confusion in schools. yeah ideological

indoctrination that she sees it to be particularly over gender, but also she throw in things like crime and so on. i am an admirer of camilla's work. i think she's a great writer and i ppipp— think she's a great writer and i ppipp spe— think she's a great writer and i think she writes— think she's a great writer and i think she writes bravely and expeppeiy— think she writes bravely and extremely well. _ think she writes bravely and extremely well. but i'm afraid i pisppee— extremely well. but i'm afraid i pisppee pipp— extremely well. but i'm afraid i disagree with her— extremely well. but i'm afraid i disagree with her on this ppespipp— disagree with her on this question. and— disagree with her on this question. and it's not just peppse— question. and it's not just because i'm— question. and it's not just because i'm a— question. and it's not just because i'm a tub thumping pppipp.— because i'm a tub thumping patriot, although i do happen to ppipp— patriot, although i do happen to ppipp ppis— patriot, although i do happen to ppipp ppis is— patriot, although i do happen to think this is a— patriot, although i do happen to think this is a great country ppp— think this is a great country ppp p— think this is a great country ppp p pepp— think this is a great country and a great country to live in ppp— and a great country to live in ppp p— and a great country to live in ppp p pepp— and a great country to live in and a great country to live in and a great country in which to pipe— and a great country in which to bring-children. _ and a great country in which to bring-children. i— and a great country in which to bring children. i do concede bring up children. i do concede pppp— bring up children. i do concede pppp spe— bring up children. i do concede pppp pp— bring up children. i do concede that some of the— bring up children. i do concede that some of the things she's ppipipp— that some of the things she's pppipp-epi- that some of the things she's. talking-real-in talking about are real issues in sppppis— talking about are real issues in schools-could- talking about are real issues in schools.-could our- schools. i mean, could our sspppis— schools. i mean, could our schools-better?- schools. i mean, could our schools better? well, on the schools do better? well, on the on schools do better? well, on the pp ppe— schools do better? well, on the pp ppe iepppe— schools do better? well, on the on the league table performance ppppppep— on the league table performance ppppppep pipp— on the league table performance compared with international compared with our international pippis—pp- compared with our international rivals,_do well. rivals, british schools do well pepp— rivals, british schools do well ippe-spppe— rivals, british schools do well both-state and - rivals, british schools do well both state and private both in the state and private sepp— both in the state and private sector, albeit— both in the state and private sector, albeit we've fallen pepipp— sector, albeit we've fallen behind some— sector, albeit we've fallen behind some countries, espepipiiy— behind some countries, especially in- behind some countries, especially in asia, where once traditionally— especially in asia, where once traditionally behind us in attainment— traditionally behind us in attainment levels, people, ppeppep— attainment levels, people, ppeppep ip— attainment levels, people, whether it be— attainment levels, people, whether it be on basic achievement- whether it be on basic achievement or high level achievement,— achievement or high level achievement, have surged past us as achievement, have surged past us ps ppeip— achievement, have surged past us as their economies— achievement, have surged past us as their economies have become more more wealthy.— as their economies have become more more wealthy. so our peppppe— more more wealthy. so our performance economically, educationally—

performance economically, educationally is still pretty pppp— educationally is still pretty pppp. ppp— educationally is still pretty good, but not— educationally is still pretty good, but not all that it could be, good, but not all that it could be ppp— good, but not all that it could be, but nothing— good, but not all that it could be, but nothing like the kind of ppppp— be, but nothing like the kind of ppppp ppp— be, but nothing like the kind of doom and gloom— be, but nothing like the kind of doom and gloom that that ppppipe— doom and gloom that that narrative might suggest on the pipes— narrative might suggest on the pipes spe-s— narrative might suggest on the things she's talking about. i ppspippeiy— things she's talking about. i absolutely-that- things she's talking about. i absolutely that there is absolutely accept that there is spppeppipp— absolutely accept that there is something-wrong- absolutely accept that there is something wrong if you, something quite wrong if you, you— something quite wrong if you, ypp pppip— something quite wrong if you, ypp pppp. ypp— something quite wrong if you, you know, you run the risk of seppipp— you know, you run the risk of seppipp yppp— you know, you run the risk of sending your child to a school wppee— sending your child to a school pee ppp— sending your child to a school where, for example , they get where, for example, they get ppip— where, for example, they get told transgenderism far told about transgenderism far eppiiep— told about transgenderism far eppiiep pppp— told about transgenderism far earlier than you— told about transgenderism far earlier than you would like them to earlier than you would like them pp—ppe— earlier than you would like them pp—ppe sppppi- to be. and don't the school ppesp-p— to be. and don't the school doesn't tell— to be. and don't the school doesn't tell you _ to be. and don't the school doesn't tell you as the parent ppey-e— doesn't tell you as the parent ppey-e ppipp— doesn't tell you as the parent ppey-e ppipp pp— doesn't tell you as the parent they're going to do it and then get they're going to do it and then pep epppppppep— they're going to do it and then get encouraged change get encouraged to change their peppep—ppp- get encouraged to change their gender—and that. get encouraged to change their gender and that is gender themselves and that is pppiiipppep— gender themselves and that is facilitated by— gender themselves and that is facilitated by the— gender themselves and that is facilitated by the school. again pippppp— facilitated by the school. again without telling _ facilitated by the school. again without telling you about it. so i without telling you about it. so i pppepp— without telling you about it. so i pppepp pppse— without telling you about it. so i accept those that sort of that peppise— i accept those that sort of that ppeppise pppp— i accept those that sort of that premise that things less premise that things are less pppp— premise that things are less pppp ipepi— premise that things are less than ideal in— premise that things are less than ideal in our schools, but pppp— than ideal in our schools, but pppp pppse— than ideal in our schools, but that those things— than ideal in our schools, but that those things can can be pepp— that those things can can be pepip pipp— that those things can can be dealt with and _ that those things can can be dealt with and improved. and i, i dealt with and improved. and i, i-ps— dealt with and improved. and i, i-ps p— dealt with and improved. and i, i-ps p ppppppy— dealt with and improved. and i, i-as a country, our- dealt with and improved. and i, i as a country, our best i think as a country, our best ppys— i think as a country, our best ppys-ppepp- i think as a country, our best days-ahead of- i think as a country, our best days-ahead of us.. days are still ahead of us. i pppe— days are still ahead of us. i ppve p— days are still ahead of us. i have a completely different ppippsep— have a completely different ppippsep pp— have a completely different mindset to paul and that extends to_circumstances| to our educational circumstances ppp. — to our educational circumstances ppp. lppppip.— to our educational circumstances ppp. lppppip. pe— to our educational circumstances too. britain, we give a great too. in britain, we give a great pepp— too. in britain, we give a great pepi pp— too. in britain, we give a great pepi pp spppppp— too. in britain, we give a great deal of support to— too. in britain, we give a great deal of support to our education syspepp— deal of support to our education system, whether— deal of support to our education system, whether or— deal of support to our education system, whether or not, unlike ppyseip. — system, whether or not, unlike ppyseip. we — system, whether or not, unlike ppyseip. we pe— system, whether or not, unlike myself, we are childless. we ppppiy— myself, we are childless. we ppppiy ppipp— myself, we are childless. we rightly think that that is part of-contribution- of our contribution to our ppppppy— of our contribution to our ppppppy-ppp- of our contribution to our country our future country and our future generations. - country and our future generations. and i think we'll

spppippe— generations. and i think we'll spppippe-i- generations. and i think we'll continue-i think- generations. and i think we'll continue i think this continue to do so. i think this islpppse— continue to do so. i think this islpppse pepp— continue to do so. i think this islphase right ?_ continue to do so. i think this is phase right? think we've is a phase right? i think we've pppe— is a phase right? i think we've eppe—wppe- is a phase right? i think we've. gone _woke already. is a phase right? i think we've- gone _woke already. i gone beyond peak woke already. i ppipp—pp— gone beyond peak woke already. i ppipp—pp-ppp- gone beyond peak woke already. i think—to-out of. think we're going to grow out of it, think we're going to grow out of ip-app— think we're going to grow out of ip-applppipp- think we're going to grow out of it,-and|think part. it, basically. and i think part of-reflection_ it, basically. and i think part of-reflection of- it, basically. and i think part of reflection of coming of the reflection of our coming ippp— of the reflection of our coming into-adulthood- of the reflection of our coming into adulthood will be into national adulthood will be spppppipp— into national adulthood will be spppppipp-ppp— into national adulthood will be shrugging off our shrugging this off and our educational— shrugging this off and our educational system will be all the educational system will be all ppe-ip. — educational system will be all the-it. well,- educational system will be all the-it. well, i- educational system will be all| the-it. well, i hope the better for it. well, i hope so. but a lot children going so. but a lot of children going through the current education system, let system, um, may well not let down. may not want to have down. may well not want to have children because of the climate alarmism. paul i mean if you speak to, you know, the just stop oil activists, it's of course they say, oh , we're not course they say, oh, we're not going to have children because we don't know whether the planet will a good enough will be in a good enough condition. this trickles condition. but this trickles down your just average down into your just your average schoolchild constantly worried that world is going to end that the world is going to end or that everything they do is has a negative impact. it does . has a negative impact. it does. and i'm a patriot,— has a negative impact. it does. and i'm a patriot, by- has a negative impact. it does. and i'm a patriot, by the- 9 . it does. and i'm a patriot, by the way, ppp— and i'm a patriot, by the way, ppp ppppy— and i'm a patriot, by the way, and many things— and i'm a patriot, by the way, and many things i didn't mean to imply— and many things i didn't mean to ipppiy we— and many things i didn't mean to ipppiy we ppp-p— and many things i didn't mean to imply we don't have a flag. i pipe-p— imply we don't have a flag. i pipp-p pepp— imply we don't have a flag. i didn't mean to— imply we don't have a flag. i didn't mean to imply- imply we don't have a flag. i didn't mean to imply that you weren't. i know you didn't. but there's many things— weren't. i know you didn't. but there's many things about- there's many things about this ppppppy— there's many things about this ppppppy-i— there's many things about this ppppppy-i-ppp- there's many things about thisi country-i-and love. country that i admire and love. ppp— country that i admire and love. but-realistic.- country that i admire and love. but-realistic. i- country that i admire and love. but realistic. i think but i'm just realistic. i think ppppp— but i'm just realistic. i think ppppp. ypp— but i'm just realistic. i think about, you know, the of but i'm just realistic. i think abo country. znow, the of but i'm just realistic. i think

abo country. i ow, the of but i'm just realistic. i think abo country. i think|e of but i'm just realistic. i think abo country. i think that of but i'm just realistic. i think abo country. i think that we of the country. i think that we i ppipp— the country. i think that we i ppipp ppe— the country. i think that we i think the political class in ppis— think the political class in ppis ppppppy— think the political class in this country our think the political class in. this country-our-of this country and our kind of institutions— this country and our kind of institutions ,_ this country and our kind of institutions , our— this country and our kind of institutions , our academic institutions, our academic institutions,— institutions, our academic institutions, large parts of our ppepip— institutions, large parts of our ppepip pppe— institutions, large parts of our media have kind— institutions, large parts of our media have kind of embraced this iipeppi— media have kind of embraced this liberal progressive,— media have kind of embraced this liberal progressive, this pppispi— liberal progressive, this radical liberal, liberal, progressive— radical liberal, liberal, progressive agenda. they've eppiwppep— progressive agenda. they've embraced the _ progressive agenda. they've embraced the precepts of liberal pipppiisppipp— embraced the precepts of liberal globalisation, the— embraced the precepts of liberal globalisation, the global pppep— globalisation, the global market, open— globalisation, the global market, open borders, all of ppis— market, open borders, all of ppis ppp— market, open borders, all of this kind of— market, open borders, all of this kind of thing , which i this kind of thing, which i ppipp— this kind of thing, which i ppipp pps— this kind of thing, which i think has actually caused an enormous amount of fragmentation wippip— enormous amount of fragmentation wippip pp— enormous amount of fragmentation wippip spppppy— enormous amount of fragmentation within our country ,_ enormous amount of fragmentation within our country , a degree of within our country, a degree of pppppisppipp— within our country, a degree of atomisation of— within our country, a degree of atomisation of our— within our country, a degree of atomisation of our societies wpee— atomisation of our societies pee ypp— atomisation of our societies where, you know, people living in where, you know, people living ip ppe— where, you know, people living ip ppe spppe— where, you know, people living in the same communities, 20 or 30 in the same communities, 20 or so yepps— in the same communities, 20 or so yepps ppp.— in the same communities, 20 or 30 years ago, people would know ppeip— 30 years ago, people would know their neighbours. _ 30 years ago, people would know their neighbours. nowadays it's not uncommon— their neighbours. nowadays it's not uncommon at— their neighbours. nowadays it's not uncommon at all for people not uncommon at all for people ppp pp— not uncommon at all for people ppp pp pppw— not uncommon at all for people not to know anybody. there would pppe— not to know anybody. there would ppwe peep— not to know anybody. there would have been incredibly difficult ppp— have been incredibly difficult ppp ppppppipp— have been incredibly difficult and damaging economically to pppe— and damaging economically to ppwel— and damaging economically to ppwel we— and damaging economically to have -, no, we're - and damaging economically to have , no, we're going have said, no, we're not going to liberalise_ have said, no, we're not going to liberalise in— have said, no, we're not going to liberalise in terms of trade. n..— to liberalise in terms of trade. wp. ppipp— to liberalise in terms of trade. no, we're going to— to liberalise in terms of trade. no, we're going to protect- no, we're going to protect our industries to the nth degree. i don't believe so. in a globalised world, people can move around easily. think move around more easily. i think the and mean, i'm the opposite. and i mean, i'm ppp— the opposite. and i mean, i'm ppp pppipp— the opposite. and i mean, i'm not calling for— the opposite. and i mean, i'm not calling for some- and i mean, i'm not calling for some sort of ppppppy— not calling for some sort of ppppppy pepe— not calling for some sort of autarky here, but i do think pppp— autarky here, but i do think pppp-wpep- autarky here, but i do thinki that-when-look autarky here, but i do think. that-when-look at that actually when you look at the-liberalisation- that actually when you look at the liberalisation of the liberal liberalisation of

pppe— the liberal liberalisation of ppppe-ip-s- the liberal liberalisation of trade-it's done. the liberal liberalisation of trade it's done in trade and what it's done in peeps— trade and what it's done in peppps pp— trade and what it's done in terms of the— trade and what it's done in terms of the deindustrialisation of terms of the deindustrialisation pp ppippip— terms of the deindustrialisation of britain and— terms of the deindustrialisation of britain and the— terms of the deindustrialisation of britain and the offshore ring of britain and the offshore ring of thousands— of britain and the offshore ring of thousands and _ of britain and the offshore ring of thousands and thousands of pipe— of thousands and thousands of pipe pppipp— of thousands and thousands of blue collar jobs— of thousands and thousands of blue collar jobs in stable industries— blue collar jobs in stable industries ,_ blue collar jobs in stable industries , what that has done industries, what that has done to communities— industries, what that has done to communities in terms of their peppie-s— to communities in terms of their peppie-s sepse— to communities in terms of their people's sense of— to communities in terms of their people's sense of belonging and ppeip— people's sense of belonging and ppeip sepse— people's sense of belonging and their sense of— people's sense of belonging and their sense of place and their pp— their sense of place and their sense of vocation— their sense of place and their sense of vocation , what that's sense of vocation, what that's pppe — sense of vocation, what that's pppe pp — sense of vocation, what that's pppe pp ppe — sense of vocation, what that's done to the very— sense of vocation, what that's done to the very nostalgia . done to the very nostalgia. pppi— done to the very nostalgia. paul whereas _ done to the very nostalgia. paul whereas alex - done to the very nostalgia. paul whereas alex is- done to the very nostalgia. paul whereas alex is looking towards the future, to our economy, i just say manufacturing something very quickly. gordon has got in touch and this is kind of a point to paul and this is kind of a point to paul. alex, i'll come to you as well. why is it that if britain is and hard, 3 million is so bad and hard, 3 million brits can afford to go on houday brits can afford to go on holiday this easter? do holiday this easter? i do think that we do that sometimes we do sensationalise just how just how miserable everything is when most people feel, you know, yes, people are struggling at the moment. yes, there is a cost of living crisis. yes, there are some people who are privileged compared of course compared to others of course that the case. but in terms that is the case. but in terms of looking around the world, you're pretty lucky if you happen be born in britain for happen to be born in britain for the moment, for the moment, look it, are both. i'm sure

it, you are both. i'm sure peppie— it, you are both. i'm sure peppie pe— it, you are both. i'm sure people are broader- . 545; i'm sure people are broader vision than ppe-ipp— people are broader vision than ppe-ipp spiii— people are broader vision than me,-i'm still-to- me, but i'm still trying to ppe— me, but i'm still trying to answer the exam question about sppppis— answer the exam question about sppppis ppp— answer the exam question about sppppis ppp-ipe- answer the exam question about schools and i've moved schools and sorry, i've moved off schools and sorry, i've moved ppp-ppipp— schools and sorry, i've moved ppp-pppe ppe- schools and sorry, i've moved off-bring me back- off topic. bring me back my narrow, my narrow view on that is you're if there is real is if you're if there is real ground for criticism, it's that in our educational establishment, which may establishment, which there may be about the be a wider point about the broader liberal broader political and liberal establishment itself establishment has allowed itself to captured by a very, very to be captured by a very, very small group of extremists who say, unless you agree with me , say, unless you agree with me, you are a bigot, which is a very kind of obvious sleight of hand saying unless you accept that there is no such thing as a defined , defined pair sexes defined, defined pair of sexes anymore , then you're a bigot. anymore, then you're a bigot. if you refuse to use this ppiip-s— if you refuse to use this child's chosen- if you refuse to use this child's chosen pronouns this week.— child's chosen pronouns this week. ppep— child's chosen pronouns this week, then you'll be fired as a pepppep— week, then you'll be fired as a teacher. right?— week, then you'll be fired as a teacher. right? that sort of ppipp— teacher. right? that sort of pipe ip— teacher. right? that sort of thing in almost— teacher. right? that sort of thing in almost culture thing in almost any culture wppip— thing in almost any culture wppip pe— thing in almost any culture would be dismissed. you try that on would be dismissed. you try that pp p pppip— would be dismissed. you try that on a latin american culture. you try on a latin american culture. you ppy pppp— on a latin american culture. you ppy pppp ip— on a latin american culture. you try that in france— on a latin american culture. you try that in france or— on a latin american culture. you try that in france or spain, ppey-ii— try that in france or spain, ppey-ii pepp— try that in france or spain, they'll tell you— try that in france or spain, they'll tell you to get knotted, peppe— they'll tell you to get knotted, ppppe ippp— they'll tell you to get knotted, ppppp ippp is— they'll tell you to get knotted, right? that is a— they'll tell you to get knotted, right? that is a sign of weakness. _ right? that is a sign of weakness. i— right? that is a sign of weakness. i concede that on that ppipp— weakness. i concede that on that ppipp. i— weakness. i concede that on that ppipp. i we— weakness. i concede that on that one point, i was trying to think ppppp— one point, i was trying to think ppppp p— one point, i was trying to think ppppp p ppipp— one point, i was trying to think about a point of— one point, i was trying to think about a point of agreement. i ppee— about a point of agreement. i ppee-pppp— about a point of agreement. i agree -that-sign- about a point of agreement. i agree that sign of agree that that is a sign of ppippep— agree that that is a sign of cultural-that.

agree that that is a sign of. cultural-that we've cultural weakness, that we've piipwep— cultural weakness, that we've allowed ourselves to be kowtowed and allowed ourselves to be kowtowed ppp ppiiiep— allowed ourselves to be kowtowed and bullied something and bullied into something that not and bullied into something that ppp—eespi and bullied into something that. ppp—eesp pp not just the mainstream 99.5% of us not just the mainstream 99.5% of ps pppw— not just the mainstream 99.5% of ps pppw is— not just the mainstream 99.5% of us know is complete guff. �*fw�*5.. us know is complete guff. well, i us know is complete guff. well, i ppipp— us know is complete guff. well, i ppipp i— us know is complete guff. well, i think i would— us know is complete guff. well, i think i would certainly agree with that. i put out what i thought was a common sense tweet saying if i were a parent, i would like to know if my son, sam was showing up at school as samantha, went viral. samantha, the tweet went viral. ihave samantha, the tweet went viral. i have never had so much abuse in my life. it was captured mostly, by the way, by american as twitter is not normal life who accused me, told me i should never have children an i should be sterilised . you know, if my be sterilised. you know, if my child can't come to me, then i'm a hideous person . terrible, a hideous person. terrible, terrible, terrible evil. but what do i do ? i mean, all i can what do i do? i mean, all i can do is hope that the general pubuc do is hope that the general public would be on my side. i think i'm speaking for them when i say that. but yes, i'll give you the final word on this one. final word. i think economically,- : i think economically, we're final word. ithink- economically, we're going backwards.— economically, we're going backwards. i— economically, we're going backwards. i think socially we-we—pppi we've become a very kind of deracinated_ we've become a very kind of deracinated culturally . deracinated society culturally. it's deracinated society culturally. ip-s pipppsp— deracinated society culturally. it's almost as— deracinated society culturally. it's almost as we're ashamed it's almost as if we're ashamed of it's almost as if we're ashamed pp—ppsp.— it's almost as if we're ashamed pp—ppsp. i— it's almost as if we're ashamed of-past. i think- it's almost as if we're ashamed of-past. i think our. of our of our past. i think our ppppppppipy— of our of our past. i think our community is. _ of our of our past. i think our community is. so-

of our of our past. i think our community is. “9 5“: community is. so bring children into the world. well, i would spy i— into the world. well, i would never say i would— : well, i would never say i would never say no. ppp— never say i would never say no. ppp ip-s— never say i would never say no. ppp ip-s ppipp— never say i would never say no. ppp ip-s ppipp pp— never say i would never say no. but it's going to take a hell of a but it's going to take a hell of p ipp— but it's going to take a hell of a lot-retrieve— but it's going to take a hell of a lot-retrieve it.— but it's going to take a hell of a lot-retrieve it. it- but it's going to take a hell of a lot retrieve it. it can be a lot to retrieve it. it can be pppe. — a lot to retrieve it. it can be pppe-ppp-p— a lot to retrieve it. it can be done. don't underestimate a lot to retrieve it. it can be dontime. don't underestimate a lot to retrieve it. it can be dontime. ion't underestimate a lot to retrieve it. it can be dontime. �*fp5..inderestimate a lot to retrieve it. it can be dontime. �*fw�*5.. 55mate a lot to retrieve it. it can be dontime. �*fw�*5.. .ate a lot to retrieve it. it can be dontime. �*fw�*5.. . .. the time. well, perhaps it will be future generations that make britain god. britain great again. oh god. we shall anyway, coming up, shall see. anyway, coming up, should able to sue should workers be able to sue bosses , their if bosses, sue their bosses? if customers are rude to them? a new change in the equality act would let workers take employers to court. if a member of the pubuc or to court. if a member of the public or harassed them public offended or harassed them at work. is that right? is that fair ? stay tuned .

yes. welcome back to dewbs& co with me, emily carver. so keeping me company until 7:00. we still have alex dean in the studio, political commentator and paul embry, firefighter and writer. so are you planning on a few drinks out this bank holiday weekend? it's quite nice weather, actually , down here. at weather, actually, down here. at least get the jokes with the

friends in while you can. in a new amendment to the equality act. would let workers take employers to court a member employers to court if a member of public offended of the public offended or harassed at work. some harassed them at work. some people are saying that this could be, you know, banter. banter could be could be under this kind of law. landlords have warned the new bill could mean they have to hire banter. bouncers banter. bouncers to bouncers as banter. bouncers to stop people joking in pubs in case it upsets staff . is that a case it upsets staff. is that a bit silly, alex? i am regularly pppep— bit silly, alex? i am regularly called variation— bit silly, alex? i am regularly called variation on— . .9 '.5;p

ppipp— against whom you're going to pipe p— against whom you're going to pipe p pipi— against whom you're going to bring a civil claim. i assume, ppp— bring a civil claim. i assume, ppp pep— bring a civil claim. i assume, ppp pep spe— bring a civil claim. i assume, and get some kind of financial eppepy— and get some kind of financial eppepy. ppp— and get some kind of financial remedy. for-that- and get some kind of financial remedy. for that seems that remedy. for me, that seems that pewepse— remedy. for me, that seems that seems perverse. it— remedy. for me, that seems that seems perverse. it also seems a pisippeppiwe— seems perverse. it also seems a disincentive anymore given how ppw— disincentive anymore given how ppw peep— disincentive anymore given how how keen sometimes our police are how keen sometimes our police pp— how keen sometimes our police pp pppip— how keen sometimes our police are to avoid doing— how keen sometimes our police are to avoid doing things that we wppip— are to avoid doing things that we would like— are to avoid doing things that we would like them to do in pppep— we would like them to do in pppep pp— we would like them to do in pppep pp pp— we would like them to do in order to go away— we would like them to do in order to go away and do things pppp— order to go away and do things pppp ppsp— order to go away and do things pppp pppsp pp— order to go away and do things that most of in— order to go away and do things that most of in society would pppep— that most of in society would rather-didn't— that most of in society would rather-didn't do. - that most of in society would rather didn't do. it rather they didn't do. it pepes— rather they didn't do. it becomes _forl rather they didn't do. it. becomes _for the rather they didn't do. it- becomes-for the police becomes very easy for the police to becomes very easy for the police pp-i-pp— becomes very easy for the police pp-i-pp-ppipp— becomes very easy for the police to i'm going enforce to say, i'm not going to enforce ppis— to say, i'm not going to enforce ppis-pspiwipy— to say, i'm not going to enforce ppis-pppiwipy .- to say, i'm not going to enforce this activity . when this kind of activity. when someone's-you,l this kind of activity. when. someone's-you, you this kind of activity. when- someone's-you, you take this kind of activity. when someemployer you, you take this kind of activity. when someemployer to you, you take this kind of activity. when someemployer to court, , you take this kind of activity. when someemployer to court, that'llake your employer to court, that'll pppe— your employer to court, that'll pppe pppe— your employer to court, that'll pppe ppe-ip— your employer to court, that'll take care it. doesn't need me your employer to court, that'll taiinvestigate. doesn't need me your employer to court, that'll taiinvestigate atioesn't need me your employer to court, that'll taiinvestigate at all,i't need me your employer to court, that'll taiinvestigate at all, doesed me your employer to court, that'll taiinvestigate at all, does it?me to investigate at all, does it? pepp— to investigate at all, does it? yeah-actually,— to investigate at all, does it? yeah. actually, forces yeah. so actually, it forces spppeppipp— yeah. so actually, it forces spppeppipp .— yeah. so actually, it forces something . it— yeah. so actually, it forces something . it makes a new thing. something. it makes a new thing. ippp-s— something. it makes a new thing. ippp-s peippep— something. it makes a new thing. that's neither one— something. it makes a new thing. that's neither one thing nor the pppep— that's neither one thing nor the pppep. app— that's neither one thing nor the pppep. app ip— that's neither one thing nor the other. and in law— that's neither one thing nor the other. and in law ,_ that's neither one thing nor the other. and in law , that's other. and in law, that's pepeppiiy— other. and in law, that's generallylbad- other. and in law, that's generally bad idea. other. and in law, that's generallylbad idea. what generally a bad idea. but what if generally a bad idea. but what ip-wpppep— generally a bad idea. but what if worker in in a pub if i was a worker in in a pub i was working behind the bar and the same person kept coming in to the pub and every single time they were, i don't know, horribly suggestive, rude, vulgar, harassing me. but the but the landlord of the pub let me answer said, oh, don't worry about it. get on with it. let me answer it directly. _ about it. get on with it. let me answer it directly. if— about it. get on with it. let me

answer it directly. if that- answer it directly. if that pesp— answer it directly. if that pesp is— answer it directly. if that person is harassing you to the expepp— person is harassing you to the expepp pppp— person is harassing you to the extent that you _ person is harassing you to the extent that you are being ppppssep— extent that you are being harassed, it— extent that you are being harassed, it is— extent that you are being harassed, it is an offence. sppp— harassed, it is an offence. sepp-pppe— harassed, it is an offence. short-that, i'm- harassed, it is an offence. short that, i'm afraid what short of that, i'm afraid what ype— short of that, i'm afraid whati you're—somebody you're describing is somebody ppipp— being annoying and somebody peipp—isl being annoying in society is part— being annoying in society is ppp-ps— being annoying in society is ppp-ip-s-pp- being annoying in society is part-it's-of thei part of life. it's part of the wppp— part of life. it's part of the wppp-wepp— part of life. it's part of the warp .weft of- part of life. it's part of the warp weft of having warp and weft of having neighbours.— warp and weft of having neighbours. don't like neighbours. you don't like customers that— neighbours. you don't like customers that might smell, peppie— customers that might smell, people-about- customers that might smell, people about things people that talk about things pppp— people that talk about things pppp wipp— people that talk about things pppp wipp ypp— people that talk about things that wind you up, they're pppipp.— that wind you up, they're pppipp. ieppy— that wind you up, they're boring. terry, who always goes on boring. terry, who always goes pp-ppe— boring. terry, who always goes pp-ppe eppe— boring. terry, who always goes on-the route to- boring. terry, who always goes on the route to drive to on about the route to drive to pipppipppppp— on about the route to drive to birmingham whatever, people birmingham like whatever, people are birmingham like whatever, people ppppyipp— birmingham like whatever, people ppppyipp .— birmingham like whatever, people are annoying , right? birmingham like whatever, people are annoying, right? and it may be are annoying, right? and it may ppe ip— are annoying, right? and it may ppe iplpepppip— are annoying, right? and it may be iflcertain kind— are annoying, right? and it may be if certain kind of be if a certain kind of ppppippipp— be if a certain kind of- particular-person be if a certain kind of— particular-person who's particular annoying person who's ppppepep—peppie-sl targeted at you, most people's epppipyep— targeted at you, most people's epppipyeplpii— targeted at you, most people's employer all comes down to employer in all comes down to ppis.— employer in all comes down to ppps. ipp— employer in all comes down to ppps. ipp spe— employer in all comes down to pubs. for some reason in this. conversation,_bar conversation, most pubs will bar ppepp. — conversation, most pubs will bar ppepp. ipe— conversation, most pubs will bar them. the picture— conversation, most pubs will bar them. the picture the tv or them. the picture on the tv or say— them. the picture on the tv or spy .— them. the picture on the tv or spy . ppppy— them. the picture on the tv or spy . ppppy. pppi— them. the picture on the tv or say , barry, pull your head in, say, barry, pull your head in, peppe— say, barry, pull your head in, iepwe pppiiy— say, barry, pull your head in, leave emily alone. right. and pppp-s— leave emily alone. right. and pppp-s ppe— leave emily alone. right. and that's the-is. - leave emily alone. right. and that's the-is. the- leave emily alone. right. and that's the is. the idea that's the way it is. the idea ype— that's the way it is. the idea you're-improve- you're going to improve your circumstances— you're going to improve your circumstances your circumstances by suing your epppipyep— circumstances by suing your epppipyep ip— circumstances by suing your epppipyep ip ip— circumstances by suing your employer in in the example yppe— employer in in the example yppe pppep— employer in in the example you've given seems to me to be for you've given seems to me to be ppp ppe— you've given seems to me to be ppp ppe pipps— you've given seems to me to be for the birds. well,— you've given seems to me to be for the birds. well, there we 90-— for the birds. well, there we pp. spppip— for the birds. well, there we pp. spppip p— for the birds. well, there we go. should a gp— for the birds. well, there we go. should a gp be able to sue ppe— go. should a gp be able to sue ppe pps— go. should a gp be able to sue ppe wps pppi— go. should a gp be able to sue the nhs pool if— go. should a gp be able to sue the nhs pool if they're not pepiipp— the nhs pool if they're not dealing with— the nhs pool if they're not dealing with abusive patients? wep— dealing with abusive patients? weii. ippp— dealing with abusive patients? weii. ippp. i— dealing with abusive patients? well, look, i mean— dealing with abusive patients? well, look, i mean under- dealing with abusive patients? well, look, i mean under the equality act now, people can sue their employer for harassment . their employer for harassment. if a worker discriminates if a fellow worker discriminates against them and what this

legislation, which i don't think is quite as kind of snowflakey as people are making it out to be seeks to do is just extend that to third parties. now, what the law will say , assuming it the law will say, assuming it goes through, is that an employer is required to take all reasonable steps to prevent that harassment. if an employer has done that, then it seems unlikely that they're going to be captured by the legislation . be captured by the legislation. and the truth is, look, in the scenario that you mentioned, there about working in the pub, emily, i would say actually if your employer, if you were working behind the bar and suffering of daily or suffering that sort of daily or nightly harassment your nightly harassment and your employer aware of that employer was fully aware of that but didn't take reasonable steps to stop actually, i do to stop it, then actually, i do think it's fair to hold that employer account for the employer to account for the impact that it's having you . impact that it's having on you. so i necessarily think so i don't necessarily think it's unreasonable. i don't want to workers in cotton wool it's unreasonable. i don't want to i workers in cotton wool it's unreasonable. i don't want to i don't'kers in cotton wool it's unreasonable. i don't want to i don't want n cotton wool it's unreasonable. i don't want to i don't want them on wool it's unreasonable. i don't want to i don't want them ,n wool it's unreasonable. i don't want to i don't want them , you»ol it's unreasonable. i don't want to i don't want them , you know, and i don't want them, you know, to told they lucky, isn't it? to be told they lucky, isn't it? they mustn't be exposed to particular opinions. i know particular opinions. but i know the come forward

particular opinions. but i know the an come forward particular opinions. but i know the an amendment come forward particular opinions. but i know the an amendment sayingorward particular opinions. but i know the an amendment saying that'd particular opinions. but i know the an amendment saying that if with an amendment saying that if people genuine people are having a genuine discussion, discussion and someone workplace someone in the workplace expresses a genuinely held kind of or moral opinion, of political or moral opinion, then that isn't something that's going to be captured by the legislation. well, it's going to be very difficult. how reassuring?- be very difficult. how reassuring? . no reassuring? i do worry. no speppispi— reassuring? i do worry. no sceptical over— reassuring? i do worry. no sceptical over here. \5 sceptical over here. no, no, i get— sceptical over here. no, no, i pep pipp— sceptical over here. no, no, i pep pppp. i— sceptical over here. no, no, i get that. i do get it completely because i'm a passionate defender of free speech, but at the same time, i don't want a situation where people in the scenario, for example, like emily raised , feel they have to emily raised, feel they have to go into and suffer abuse go into work and suffer abuse and harassment because their employer not. imean, and harassment because their employer not. i mean, they employer has not. i mean, they pppip— employer has not. i mean, they sppip-pppip— employer has not. i mean, they could-could actually- could if they could actually esipp—ppel could if they could actually esipp—ppe ii could if they could actually. resign—dare i say resign from the job, dare i say pppp— resign from the job, dare i say pppp. ppp— resign from the job, dare i say pppp. ppp ppey— resign from the job, dare i say that. but they shouldn't or they pppip— that. but they shouldn't or they pppip pppppppp— that. but they shouldn't or they could approach the police to say pppp— could approach the police to say pppp ppis— could approach the police to say pppp ppis ip— could approach the police to say that this if this— could approach the police to say that this if this punter is pspppiiy— that this if this punter is actually harassing me for all pppp— actually harassing me for all pppp we— actually harassing me for all that we have— actually harassing me for all that we have pubs with many ppppyipp— that we have pubs with many annoying customers and lord pppws— annoying customers and lord pppws pppp-s— annoying customers and lord knows that's going to be true up ppp— knows that's going to be true up ppp ppwp— knows that's going to be true up ppp ppwp ppe— knows that's going to be true up and down the _and - knows that's going to be true up and down the and who and down the country and who ppppppsp— and down the country and who ppppppsp-ppp— and down the country and who amongst-not been- and down the country and who amongst not been an amongst us has not been an ppppyipp— amongst us has not been an ppppyipp-pp- amongst us has not been an ppppyipp-pp p- amongst us has not been an annoying of a pub amongst us has not been an. annoying-of a pub at annoying customer of a pub at spppe—pep- annoying customer of a pub at| some—her life? some point in his or her life? pew-ep— some point in his or her life? pew-pp op— some point in his or her life? never. of course— some point in his or her life? never. of course you - some point in his or her life? never. of course you are. - some point in his or her life? a 5 v45. never. of course you are. you are the sole exception, let's say i'm sure he say patrick. then i'm sure he has my point was going

has. but what my point was going to be, no matter how many pubs we've got, know, if we we've got, you know, if we enacted legislation, we've got, you know, if we enaccomplaint gislation, we've got, you know, if we enaccomplaint wouldyn, we've got, you know, if we enaccomplaint would be from first complaint would be from somebody hear that somebody who said, i hear that somebody who said, i hear that somebody in my company who's dumb enough to say yes, that is what i said complaining what i said was complaining about school, saying about their school, saying there's man or there's only there's any man or number sexes and genders and number of sexes and genders and you mustn't tell your children otherwise. what a load of old rubbish. a parent rubbish. i'm a parent who believes sexes. some believes in two sexes. some person say , i offended person will say, i was offended by i was offended and by that. i was offended and i was harassed and my employer didn't do anything to stop it. it was said in canteen , it's it was said in the canteen, it's ruined life. i can't sleep ruined my life. i can't sleep anymore. i go to work anymore. i can't go to work there. suing. you know, there. i'm suing. you know, that'll first case. may i that'll be the first case. may i just is the just what's interesting is the- pespppse—ipps response from conservative mps peppse— response from conservative mps because—backingl because rishi sunak is backing this because rishi sunak is backing ppis—ppppeppiyl because rishi sunak is backing this apparently to because rishi sunak is backing. this—apparently to the this amendment apparently to the epppiipy—pp- this amendment apparently to the epppiipy—pp ippy- equality act. but a lot of tory pips— equality act. but a lot of tory pips pe— equality act. but a lot of tory mps are really— equality act. but a lot of tory mps are really pleased. sir mps are really not pleased. sir john— mps are really not pleased. sir john ppyes— mps are really not pleased. sir john hayes said— mps are really not pleased. sir john hayes said it— mps are really not pleased. sir john hayes said it had sinister ipppiipppipps— john hayes said it had sinister implications. craig mckinley spip— implications. craig mckinley spip pe— implications. craig mckinley said he believed the change was ppppipp— said he believed the change was ppppipp .— said he believed the change was draconian . lord— said he believed the change was draconian . lord frost has said draconian. lord frost has said ip-s— draconian. lord frost has said ip-s p— draconian. lord frost has said ip-s p wppe— draconian. lord frost has said it's a woke socialist measure . it's a woke socialist measure. ipe— it's a woke socialist measure. ipe ppiiiipp— it's a woke socialist measure. the chilling effect on every conversation _ the chilling effect on every conversation in— the chilling effect on every conversation in a workplace, wpipp— conversation in a workplace, wpipp is— conversation in a workplace, wpipp is wppp— conversation in a workplace, which is what alex was alluding to which is what alex was alluding

pp ppee. — which is what alex was alluding pp ppee. we— which is what alex was alluding to there. we look— which is what alex was alluding to there. we look we shouldn't, as to there. we look we shouldn't, ps ppe— to there. we look we shouldn't, ps ppe pip— to there. we look we shouldn't, as the old saying— to there. we look we shouldn't, as the old saying goes, make the peppepp— as the old saying goes, make the peppepp ppe— as the old saying goes, make the perfect the enemy— as the old saying goes, make the perfect the enemy of the good. app—ip— perfect the enemy of the good. app—in ppe- perfect the enemy of the good. app—in ppe ip- perfect the enemy of the good. and—in the in the. and, you know, in the in the example that alex raises, stop messing around with legislation example that alex raises, stop messintime. ofwith legislation example that alex raises, stop messin time. of course, islation example that alex raises, stop messintime. of course, it.ation all the time. of course, it wppip— all the time. of course, it wppip pe— all the time. of course, it would be absurd- all the time. of course, it would be absurd if- . of course, it would be absurd if that kind of exppppie— example were captured by it. ppp— example were captured by it. but nonetheless,— example were captured by it. but nonetheless, the-is. but nonetheless, the truth is that people still suffer that people still do suffer harassment. into pubs harassment. women go into pubs and, you know, restaurants, they're working in restaurants as waitresses and they get those comments and get comments constantly and they get that and just that harassment. and i just think it's unfair to say to people, look , actually, even people, look, actually, even though third party is doing though a third party is doing this to you your employer this to you and your employer has reasonable steps, has not taken reasonable steps, you let's just say you can't hold let's just say firstly i firstly that most employers, i think, take steps . think, would take those steps. it's i think they would it's just i think they would peppse— it's just i think they wouldi because—know, because they're, you know, espppsipie— because they're, you know,- responsible _who responsible human beings who pepp— responsible human beings who ppepp pppep— responsible human beings who aren't cruel, most, most epppipyeps— aren't cruel, most, most employers will get it right wippppp— employers will get it right without the _ employers will get it right without the need for legislation peppse— without the need for legislation pepppse-ppyipp- without the need for legislation because _trying to - without the need for legislation because trying to ensure because they're trying to ensure pppp— because they're trying to ensure that-harassment- that genuine harassment doesn't ppppep. — happen. but accepting your point, , there flip point, paul, there is a flip side, which let's just take side, which is let's just take the corporate environment. the flip the extent to which flip side is the extent to which businesses go around gold plating what the plating beyond even what the legislation to ensure that plating beyond even what the legis are )n to ensure that plating beyond even what the legisare outside to ensure that plating beyond even what the legisare outside ofensure that plating beyond even what the legisare outside of anyire that plating beyond even what the legisare outside of any kind at plating beyond even what the legisare outside of any kind of they are outside of any kind of liability . and businesses liability. and businesses are pretty now you know,

pretty woke. now you know, there's been a chilling effect on free in the workplace on free speech in the workplace for long, very long time for a very long, very long time already weaponize that with this kind legislation and before kind of legislation and before long, your hr department will be saying to you, because we need to liability, we hereafter to avoid liability, we hereafter forbid these kinds of topics unless you think you're exempt from it. this has now been made clear the time clear to you the first time someone goes a drink after someone goes for a drink after work something, well , work and says something, well, there you you'll need a much there you go, you'll need a much bigger which bigger hr department, which i think already great. think we've already great. we've already got the think we've already great. - we've already got-the most we've already got like the most hr we've already got like the most pip—ppis- we've already got like the most hr_this country. we've already got like the most. hr_this country out hr employees in this country out of hr employees in this country out pp-pppep— hr employees in this country out pp-pppep pu— hr employees in this country out of-other eu country- hr employees in this country out of other eu country or of any other eu country or wpppewep— of any other eu country or whatever per— of any other eu country or whatever per capita. i believe . whatever per capita. i believe. apywpy. — whatever per capita. i believe. anyway. marianne says the iepisippipp— anyway. marianne says the legislation would crazy. legislation would be crazy. appppep— legislation would be crazy.- appppep—wpp another woke idea people who wpp— another woke idea people who wpw ip— another woke idea people who work in - sentence - another woke idea people who work in sentence centres work in call sentence centres pppep— work in call sentence centres pppep pppe— work in call sentence centres often have rude— work in call sentence centres often have rude customers. i psep— often have rude customers. i psep pp— often have rude customers. i psep pp pepp— often have rude customers. i used to tell-team - often have rude customers. i used to tell team if a used to tell the team if a customer-is- used to tell the team if ai customer-is rude used to tell the team if a. customer-is rude , used to tell the team if a- customer-is rude , ask customer customer is rude, ask ppepp — customer customer is rude, ask ppepp ppiipeiy— customer customer is rude, ask them politely to— customer customer is rude, ask them politely to stop. if they ppp-p.— them politely to stop. if they pppe—pp.- them politely to stop. if theyi ppp-e—pp-ppis don't, then hang up. yes, this wppip— don't, then hang up. yes, this would-massive- don't, then hang up. yes, this would massive thing in a would be a massive thing in a ppip— would be a massive thing in a eppi-i— would be a massive thing in a eppi-i-peppiel would be a massive thing in ai call-i-people are call centre. i mean, people are sppspppp— call centre. i mean, people are constant - anyway, - call centre. i mean, people are constant anyway, we've constant rude, but anyway, we've got constant rude, but anyway, we've ppp pp— constant rude, but anyway, we've ppp pp pp. — constant rude, but anyway, we've ppp pp pp. we-we— constant rude, but anyway, we've got to go. we've got to go. we-ii— got to go. we've got to go. we pe— got to go. we've got to go. we'll come back it. coming we'll come back to it. coming “p-_ we'll come back to it. coming “p--mp_ we'll come back to it. coming pp-iip pps— we'll come back to it. coming up.-mp has been- up. a tory mp has been criticised— up. a tory mp has been criticised for— up. a tory mp has been criticised for boasting online ppppp— criticised for boasting online about-easter— criticised for boasting online about easter egg donations about his easter egg donations to-,— about his easter egg donations pp-. wpiie— about his easter egg donations

to-, while also- about his easter egg donations to , while also claiming to charity, while also claiming peppy— to charity, while also claiming nearly £300,000 _ to charity, while also claiming nearly £300,000 last year in epepses . sp— nearly £300,000 last year in expenses . so do— nearly £300,000 last year in expenses . so do you think we expenses. so do you think we spppip— expenses. so do you think we spppip peep— expenses. so do you think we should keep charity donations to ourselves , not— should keep charity donations to ourselves , not go— should keep charity donations to ourselves , not go flaunting them ourselves, not go flaunting them

well? it is the start of the ppspep— well? it is the start of the easter weekend, so we have got a pie— easter weekend, so we have got a ppipp— easter weekend, so we have got a nice drink with— easter weekend, so we have got a nice drink with us.— easter weekend, so we have got a nice drink with us. apparently ppis— nice drink with us. apparently ppis is— nice drink with us. apparently ppis is p— nice drink with us. apparently this is a tradition— nice drink with us. apparently this is a tradition on dewbs& cp. — this is a tradition on dewbs& cp. cpeeps— this is a tradition on dewbs& co. cheers. there— this is a tradition on dewbs& co. cheers. there you go . co. cheers. there you go. cpeeps. — co. cheers. there you go. cheers. cheers.- co. cheers. there you go. cheers. cheers. cheers. cheers. iiispeiie— cheers. cheers. cheers. cheers. michelle always— cheers. cheers. cheers. cheers. michelle always makes it. v455“ michelle always makes it. yeah, she michelle always makes it. yeah, spe peps— michelle always makes it. yeah, spe peps pp— michelle always makes it. yeah, spe peps pip pp— michelle always makes it. yeah, she gets rid of it— michelle always makes it. yeah, she gets rid of it immediately. yeah, she does it all time. yeah, she does it all the time. no.— yeah, she does it all the time. we spe— yeah, she does it all the time. no, she doesn't. _lying. no, she doesn't. you're lying to me. michelle would never down her prosecco. mm well, her glass of prosecco. mm well, is very nice indeed. anyway, this is dewbs & co with me. emily this is dewbs& co with me. emily carver, keeping me company is alex political commentator carver, keeping me company is alexpaul political commentator carver, keeping me company is alex paul mbappe, l commentator carver, keeping me company is alex paul mbappe, firefighter. ator and paul mbappe, firefighter. and rice so our last and rice writer. so our last topic of the day is an interesting one. easter should , interesting one. easter should, of course, be about being generous. think tory mp has generous. i think tory mp has been criticised for boasting about his easter egg donations

to charities and at the same time claiming nearly £300,000 a yearin time claiming nearly £300,000 a year in expense charges. so the first question is, is it hypocrites able to make a fuss about this particular charity donation? but also generally, should people not show off when they're giving charitably? yeah that's part of the christian tradition in the same way that you're not supposed to show off off your fasting, but actually the thing that exercises me most about story is that about this story is that suggestion of hypocrisy almost all about mps all claims made about mps expenses like this are nonsense. mbappe expenses as categorised wpep— mbappe expenses as categorised wpep ypp— mbappe expenses as categorised when you produce— mbappe expenses as categorised when you produce a figure like ppis.— when you produce a figure like this, include— when you produce a figure like this, include-costs- when you produce a figure like this, include costs of this, include the costs of ppppipp— this, include the costs of ppppipp pp— this, include the costs of running an office and paying for yppp— running an office and paying for yppp-ip-s— running an office and paying for your-it's almost- your staff, and it's almost never mentioned. and unless you ppipp— never mentioned. and unless you ppipplppp— never mentioned. and unless you ppipplppp ppp— never mentioned. and unless you pointlout and really— never mentioned. and unless you point out and really stress point it out and really stress it, point it out and really stress ip. peppie— point it out and really stress it, people come— point it out and really stress it, people come away from spppes— it, people come away from stories like— it, people come away from stories like this— it, people come away from stories like this because ppey-e— stories like this because they're-easter- stories like this because they're-easter a they're about easter eggs and a bit they're about easter eggs and a pip pp— they're about easter eggs and a pip pp pepp— they're about easter eggs and a bit of froth that's— they're about easter eggs and a bit of froth that's on the screen-his- bit of froth that's on the screen his eggs. bit of froth that's on the- screen-his eggs. to be screen with his eggs. to be ppip— screen with his eggs. to be ppip. i— screen with his eggs. to be ppip. i-pe— screen with his eggs. to be fair, i-he looks- screen with his eggs. to be fair, i he looks very nice fair, i think he looks very nice and sweet there. he does actually. of his actually. well, but proud of his eggs. no front row. eggs. sorry go on. no front row. ruphy— eggs. sorry go on. no front row. rugby player- _ eggs. sorry go on. no front row. rugby player- nice— eggs. sorry go on. no front row. rugby player. nice and- 5995 c5 5“ no front row. rugby player. nice and sweet. iipiess—

rugby player. nice and sweet. ppiess ypp— rugby player. nice and sweet. unless you emphasise i'm going to unless you emphasise i'm going pp—ppppppiiy- unless you emphasise i'm going to_manfully and- to struggle on manfully and pipisp— to struggle on manfully and finish—unless. finish this point. unless. ppippe— finish this point. unless. ppiess ypp— finish this point. unless. unless you really emphasise the fact that that kind of line fact that that that kind of line about expenses is a myth, then the that go away in the the thing that go away in the back someone's after back of someone's mind after they easter egg story they forget the easter egg story is rinses the state for 300 is mp rinses the state for 300 k mp rents state for three mp rents to the state for three k and it's not true. so that's the k and it's not true. so that's ppe sppppipp— k and it's not true. so that's the staffing costs— k and it's not true. so that's the staffing costs ,- k and it's not true. so that's the staffing costs , it's- 5“: . so that's the staffing costs , it's the the staffing costs, it's the sppppipe— the staffing costs, it's the staffing, .office - the staffing costs, it's the staffing, office and that staffing, the office and that ppp— staffing, the office and that ppp ppe— staffing, the office and that and the travel. _ staffing, the office and that and the travel. 5 and the travel. so actually i just that's what really gets my goat about it. whether or not he should a fuss on should be making a fuss on twitter having an twitter about having made an easter that's easter egg donation, that's a matter of personal preference. but the claim about expenses is a accuracy , a matter of factual accuracy, accuracy. does accuracy. and that really does annoy so we don't know annoy me. yes. so we don't know if he-s— annoy me. yes. so we don't know if he-s spending— annoy me. yes. so we don't know if he's spending this— " yes. so we don't know if he's spending this money on first— if he's spending this money on first-flights— if he's spending this money on first-flights to— if he's spending this money on first flights to doha first class flights to doha or wherever or dubai. but richard says— wherever or dubai. but richard eoye ononey— wherever or dubai. but richard says anyone posting about enemy— says anyone posting about charity work— says anyone posting about charity work and donations on sonn— charity work and donations on social neon— charity work and donations on social media is— charity work and donations on social media is primarily doing it social media is primarily doing n fon— social media is primarily doing it for themselves,— social media is primarily doing it for themselves, not for the neon— it for themselves, not for the actual cause— it for themselves, not for the actual cause itself. very sad. people— actual cause itself. very sad. people ene— actual cause itself. very sad. people but richard, if you have a people but richard, if you have n enge— people but richard, if you have a large sona— people but richard, if you have a large social media following onen— a large social media following nnon enn— a large social media following which this mp— a large social media following which this mp does, surely it encourages people to be charitable. _ encourages people to be charitable. well, i'm not sure

anae— charitable. well, i'm not sure enae nae— charitable. well, i'm not sure enae ne— charitable. well, i'm not sure that was his reason for doing it, that was his reason for doing n to— that was his reason for doing an to be— that was his reason for doing it, to be perfectly honest. ' z it, to be perfectly honest. and i it, to be perfectly honest. and . agree— it, to be perfectly honest. and a agree onen— it, to be perfectly honest. and i agree with alex. _ it, to be perfectly honest. and i agree with alex. look, if you're going to give to charity , i think it's much more meaningful if you do it privately. if you shout it from meaningful if you do it priv rooftops, 'ou shout it from meaningful if you do it priv rooftops, then|out it from meaningful if you do it priv rooftops, then itjt it from meaningful if you do it priv rooftops, then it suggests the rooftops, then it suggests that actually reason you're that actually the reason you're trying is because trying to do it is because you're trying win public you're trying to win public approval and think that approval and i think that demeans kind point of demeans the kind of point of giving in first giving to charity in the first place. i think giving to charity is like morality. it is a bit like morality. it matters you think one's matters when you think no one's looking morality matters. looking on morality matters. when looking, when you think no one's looking, giving matters , when giving to charity matters, when you social media you think it's the social media age do you.7 age isn't it? it is. do you.7 does— age isn't it? it is. do you? does it— age isn't it? it is. do you? does it just— age isn't it? it is. do you? does it just another- g . fl it is. do you? does it just another question. sono— does it just another question. son-nae— does it just another question. sono-nae oo— does it just another question. sorry, - but do - like l does it just another question. sorry, but do like it sorry, alex, but do you like it onen— sorry, alex, but do you like it nnen-even- sorry, alex, but do you like it when-every shop. when it seems every shop supermarket— when it seems every shop supermarket is— when it seems every shop supermarket is now asking if yon-o— supermarket is now asking if yon-o une— supermarket is now asking if yon-a like to— supermarket is now asking if you'd like to make a donation ? you'd like to make a donation? ano— you'd like to make a donation? ana onen— you'd like to make a donation? ana nnen yon— you'd like to make a donation? and nnen you go— you'd like to make a donation? and when you go to pay with your cane,— and when you go to pay with your can, no— and when you go to pay with your can, no you— and when you go to pay with your card, do you think— and when you go to pay with your card, do you think that's good or card, do you think that's good on no— card, do you think that's good on no you— card, do you think that's good or do you think— card, do you think that's good or do you think it's nice? no. i find— or do you think it's nice? no. i one begging— or do you think it's nice? no. i one neggang on— or do you think it's nice? no. i find begging or what sort of. on find begging or what sort of. on one— find begging or what sort of. on one one— find begging or what sort of. on the one hand— find begging or what sort of. on the one hand i— find begging or what sort of. on the one hand i find- find begging or what sort of. on the one hand i find it- on the one hand i find it annoying because i just want to get with my purchase. but on get on with my purchase. but on the other i understand the other hand, i understand that kind of nudge theory and their if people go their belief that if people go around make around saying, well, i'll make up charitable for up my charitable donations for themselves up my charitable donations for then don't. it's

up my charitable donations for thendon't. it's good up my charitable donations for then don't. it's good to they don't. and it's good to have opportunity is their have that opportunity is their thoughts so i'm not thoughts. but so i'm not particularly exercised by it. it's when it's a micro annoyance when you're something, you're trying to do something, but misunderstand but people often misunderstand the expression, let not the left hand know what the right hand is doing. think use it as doing. they think we use it as an of like bad an expression of like bad organisation and oh, the left hand the right hand doesn't know what the right hand doesn't know what the right handis hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. it's supposed to be you're doing good with if be if you're doing good with if you're in you're doing some good in society, left society, don't let your left hand your hand hand know what your right hand is if going off is doing. if you're going off and making charitable donation is doing. if you're going off an something, charitable donation is doing. if you're going off an something, it1aritable donation is doing. if you're going off an something, it doesble donation is doing. if you're going off an something, it does seem nation or something, it does seem tweeting stymied tweeting about it rather stymied that on tiktok that there are people on tiktok who go to homeless who do you know, go to homeless people, a of people, give them a bag of goods. of course , they've goods. and of course, they've got— goods. and of course, they've got one— goods. and of course, they've got one video— goods. and of course, they've got the video going- 3: and of course, they've got the video going and then to onen— got the video going and then to men-of— got the video going and then to their-of thousands- got the video going and then to their of thousands of their hundreds of thousands of followers—how- their hundreds of thousands of. followers—how great followers just to show how great one— followers just to show how great eggy-appg.g.gy_ followers just to show how great they apparently but it they are. apparently but it conto— they are. apparently but it could _others. they are. apparently but it could _others to| they are. apparently but it- could _others to give could encourage others to give oonanone. — could encourage others to give donations. julie— could encourage others to give donations. julie has to say, gase— donations. julie has to say, just before— donations. julie has to say, just before we— donations. julie has to say, just before we finish the show, enae-e— just before we finish the show, enae-e au— just before we finish the show, that's all we've— just before we finish the show, that's all we've got time for. unfortunately— that's all we've got time for. unfortunately julie says. love your— unfortunately julie says. love your_sensible.| unfortunately julie says. love. your—sensible. so your panel both so sensible. so i your panel both so sensible. so . eon-e— your panel both so sensible. so . eon-e ennn— your panel both so sensible. so i don't think that— your panel both so sensible. so i don't think that encompasses meidoesn't— i don't think that encompasses me doesn't include thank me. doesn't include me. thank you— me. doesn't include me. thank yon-sne— me. doesn't include me. thank yon-sne says.— me. doesn't include me. thank you she says. thank you you all. she says. thank you very— you all. she says. thank you very-annea- you all. she says. thank you ven-anoeeo. .- you all. she says. thank you very indeed. i hope you i very much indeed. i hope you i none— very much indeed. i hope you i nope eeryone— very much indeed. i hope you i hope everyone at— very much indeed. i hope you i hope everyone at home enjoys the raster—a- hope everyone at home enjoys the raster—a lovely-

easter weekend. have a lovely neuo— easter weekend. have a lovely one. hello again. _ easter weekend. have a lovely one. hello again. �*" one. hello again. the fine weather. many of us have had through today will continue overnight . that does mean it overnight. that does mean it will turn chilly and largely clear skies. but then tomorrow bnngs clear skies. but then tomorrow brings plenty of dry and warm, sunny weather, all because of high pressure which is dominated the picture across the uk, keeping fronts in the west at bay . but we keeping fronts in the west at bay. but we are going to see this weak front trying to push its way in from the north sea. now that's going to bring a little cloud eastern little bit more cloud to eastern and of the uk and northeastern parts of the uk . rain could turn . and also some rain could turn a little bit heavy at times over eastern parts of scotland overnight. will be overnight. elsewhere will be often and under often clear skies. and under these clear skies, temperatures are take of are going to take a bit of a dip. whilst it won't be quite as cold as last for most, it cold as last night, for most, it could be touch frosty could still be a touch frosty for out for a few for some and watch out for a few patches mist fog in the patches of mist and fog in the south. later in the night for many. then on saturday, getting off start with off to a bright start with plenty sunshine, still plenty of sunshine, still some cloud across eastern north eastern most of the eastern parts, but most of the rain will clear away and a good chunk of cloud is going to chunk of the cloud is going to break for many, break up as well. so for many, it to be a largely

it is going to be a largely sunny afternoon, plenty of spnng sunny afternoon, plenty of spring sunshine. and that spring sunshine. and in that sunshine warm sunshine feeling pleasantly warm with a touch higher with temperatures a touch higher than with of around than today with highs of around 16 or 17 celsius later on as we go through tomorrow evening, we are going to see a bit more cloud across parts of northern ireland. strengthening ireland. winds strengthening here, this here, too, all due to this front. trying push in front. that's trying to push in from this will bring from the west. this will bring some outbreaks of rain here as we through evening and we go through the evening and perhaps of perhaps to western parts of scotland, right? scotland, too. overnight right? elsewhere, like elsewhere, it's looking like a largely dry night. there will be a cloud than we've seen a bit more cloud than we've seen through some recent as through some recent nights as a result, temperatures perhaps not dropping low as they dropping quite as low as they have . otherwise, have done recently. otherwise, through sunday. it's through easter sunday. it's again for much of england and wales at least looking like a another fine day. yes, there'll be a bit more cloud around than of late, but as we head through the part day the middle part of the day in particular, looking particular, it is looking largely outbreaks largely sunny outbreaks of rain through across through the morning across scotland should clear away towards then some towards the north, but then some wet going to push in wet weather is going to push in from west later and that from the west later on and that will across the into will sweep across the uk into monday, will sweep across the uk into mond unsettled conditions .

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good evening. it's 7:00. and - good evening. it's 7:00. and r-n daren— . good evening. it's 7:00. and i'm darren grimes— . good evening. it's 7:00. and i'm darren grimes in— . good evening. it's 7:00. and i'm darren grimes in for- i'm darren grimes in for laurence fox.- i'm darren grimes in for laurence fox. if you're nerenrng— laurence fox. if you're listening on- laurence fox. if you're listening on dab+ and you're erron— listening on dab+ and you're error in— listening on dab+ and you're error in a— listening on dab+ and you're stuck in a queue,— listening on dab+ and you're stuck in a queue, then we're going— stuck in a queue, then we're gorng ro— stuck in a queue, then we're gorng ro neig— stuck in a queue, then we're going to help you pass the time and— going to help you pass the time and keep— going to help you pass the time and keep you— going to help you pass the time and keep you informed. first up, gorng— and keep you informed. first up, gorng ro— and keep you informed. first up, we're going to be— and keep you informed. first up, we're going to be talking about the we're going to be talking about rne migrant— we're going to be talking about the migrant barge. it's split onrnron— the migrant barge. it's split oornron rn— the migrant barge. it's split opinion in the— the migrant barge. it's split opinion in the conservative party— opinion in the conservative party ,— opinion in the conservative rany , nar— opinion in the conservative rany , our re— opinion in the conservative party , but is it— opinion in the conservative party , but is it actually going party, but is it actually going to worke— party, but is it actually going to work? r-n— party, but is it actually going to work? i'm speaking to an rnnrgrarron— to work? i'm speaking to an immigration lawyer and i'm sure we may— immigration lawyer and i'm sure we may no— immigration lawyer and i'm sure we may not see— immigration lawyer and i'm sure we may not see eye to eye. so you— we may not see eye to eye. so you non-r— we may not see eye to eye. so you non-r nano— we may not see eye to eye. so you won't want to— we may not see eye to eye. so you won't want to miss that one. rnen— you won't want to miss that one. rnen r— you won't want to miss that one. rnen r aerate— you won't want to miss that one. then i debate the— you won't want to miss that one. then i debate the week's news wron— then i debate the week's news nrrn one— then i debate the week's news nrrn rne roa— then i debate the week's news with the fox and— then i debate the week's news with the fox and hounds panel. i'm