dewbs& c0 coming up tonight . dewbs& co coming up tonight. let's cut to the chase, shall we.7 junior let's cut to the chase, shall we? junior doctors, do they deserve a third, 85% pay rise? yes or no? if no, why not? and how much would you give them? and get this, over 770,000 working days were lost last year in the civil service. guess why 7 in the civil service. guess why ? mental health reasons . what do ? mental health reasons. what do you think? is this just a nation of whack? a workforce that's just neglected, not loved, or the government needs to do more or some of these people chancer

is basically using mental health as the new bad back. your thoughts, please. and in news you really do not want to hear 19 people suspected of terror terrorism have crossed the channel into this country last year alone. get let them out. that's what i say. but of course, the human rights and all the rest of it says otherwise. what is the answer ? should we what is the answer? should we have special circumstances for these people? if you are suspected of terror out, no ifs , buts or maybes. we'll have all of that to come and more. but before we get into it, let's bnng before we get into it, let's bring ourselves up to speed with the news headlines, with a legend is polly middlehurst legend that is polly middlehurst . michelle, thank you. our top story— . michelle, thank you. our top story tonight— . michelle, thank you. our top story tonight on— michelle, thank you. our top story tonight on gb news police in northern— story tonight on gb news police in northern ireland have recovered four- in northern ireland have recovered four suspected pipe bombs— recovered four suspected pipe bombs from — recovered four suspected pipe bombs from a _ recovered four suspected pipe bombs from a cemetery near londonderw— bombs from a cemetery near londonderry following a public safety— londonderry following a public safety operation. _ londonderry following a public safety operation. the psni has

called— safety operation. the psni has called the— safety operation. the psni has called the discovery in creggan made— called the discovery in creggan made just— called the discovery in creggan made just hours— called the discovery in creggan made just hours before president bid...— made just hours before president biden is— made just hours before president sides is due— made just hours before president biden is due to— made just hours before president biden is due to arrive in the country.— biden is due to arrive in the country. a— biden is due to arrive in the country. a further sinister and worrying— country. a further sinister and worrying development. and it follows— worrying development. and it follows violent— worrying development. and it follows violent scenes in londonderry— follows violent scenes in londonderry yesterday where missiles— londonderry yesterday where missiles were— londonderry yesterday where missiles were thrown at police during— missiles were thrown at police during an— missiles were thrown at police cars during an anti—agreement republican— cars during an anti—agreement republican march— cars during an anti—agreement republican march . well, the us republican march. well, the us president— republican march. well, the us president says— republican march. well, the us president says he'll be using his visii— president says he'll be using his visii is— president says he'll be using his visit to northern ireland to keep— his visit to northern ireland to keep me— his visit to northern ireland to keep iiie peace— his visit to northern ireland to keep the peace as— his visit to northern ireland to keep the peace as he left the us ieiey— keep the peace as he left the us ieiey fei— keep the peace as he left the us ieiey for his— keep the peace as he left the us today for his four— keep the peace as he left the us today for his four day trip to neiiiiem— today for his four day trip to northern ireland. joe biden is en ai— northern ireland. joe biden is now on air force— northern ireland. joe biden is now on air force one and on his way— now on air force one and on his way is— now on air force one and on his way ie peeps,— now on air force one and on his way to belfast, where he'll land iiis— way to belfast, where he'll land iiis evening— way to belfast, where he'll land this evening to— way to belfast, where he'll land this evening to mark the 25th anniversary— this evening to mark the 25th anniversary of— this evening to mark the 25th anniversary of the good friday apreeneni. — anniversary of the good friday agreement. he's— anniversary of the good friday agreement. he's expected to meet sierneni-s— agreement. he's expected to meet stormont's main— agreement. he's expected to meet stormont's main political periies— stormont's main political parties tomorrow as well as ireveiiinp— parties tomorrow as well as travelling to— parties tomorrow as well as travelling to the— parties tomorrow as well as travelling to the republic of ireieni— travelling to the republic of ireieni .— travelling to the republic of ireieni . ne— travelling to the republic of ireland . he says he hopes his ireland. he says he hopes his pesene in— ireland. he says he hopes his presence in the— ireland. he says he hopes his presence in the country will snow— presence in the country will snow nis— presence in the country will show his country's willingness to show his country's willingness is preserve— show his country's willingness to preserve peace— show his country's willingness to preserve peace and encourage prosperin— to preserve peace and encourage presperiiy in— to preserve peace and encourage presperiiy in ine— to preserve peace and encourage prosperity in the region . prosperity in the region. make ine— prosperity in the region. make sure the irish— prosperity in the region. make sure the irish accords and the windsor agreement stay in place to keep the peace. that's the

that's the main thing. and it looks like we're going to keep your fingers crossed . fryston your fingers crossed. fryston sir, that your family coming with you for the trip ? just two with you for the trip? just two of my family members haven't been there before . expecting joe been there before. expecting joe biden— been there before. expecting joe biden is— been there before. expecting joe biden is inni— been there before. expecting joe biden to land in— been there before. expecting joe biden to land in belfast- sizriz; expecting joe biden to land in belfast just ener— biden to land in belfast just eiier 9:00.— biden to land in belfast just after 9:00. full— biden to land in belfast just after 9:00. full coverage right nee.— after 9:00. full coverage right nere. en— after 9:00. full coverage right here. gb news.— after 9:00. full coverage right here. gb news. now, in other roden— here. gb news. now, in other news today, downing street is refusing— news today, downing street is refusing ie— news today, downing street is refusing to hold— news today, downing street is refusing to hold further talks niin — refusing to hold further talks niin ine — refusing to hold further talks with the doctors— refusing to hold further talks with the doctors union unless it eieniens— with the doctors union unless it eieniens iis— with the doctors union unless it abandons its 35%_ with the doctors union unless it abandons its 35% pay rise. penenis— abandons its 35% pay rise. demands and— abandons its 35% pay rise. demands and calls off the sirines— demands and calls off the sirines .— demands and calls off the strikes . thousands of demands and calls off the strikes. thousands of junior iesiers— strikes. thousands of junior ieeiers in— strikes. thousands of junior doctors in england have begun neur— doctors in england have begun four days— doctors in england have begun four days ei— doctors in england have begun four days of industrial action rein.— four days of industrial action today- expens— four days of industrial action today. experts are warning the neineni— today. experts are warning the walkout could— today. experts are warning the walkout could be— today. experts are warning the walkout could be the most iisrupiive— walkout could be the most disruptive in— walkout could be the most disruptive in nhs history , with disruptive in nhs history, with up ie— disruptive in nhs history, with up is pionee— disruptive in nhs history, with up to 350,000 appointments and srpenes— up to 350,000 appointments and surgeries cancelled. the british iieiieei— surgeries cancelled. the british medical association says it has no einer— medical association says it has no other choice— medical association says it has no other choice ._ medical association says it has no other choice . but the health no other choice. but the health secretarvr— no other choice. but the health secretary, steve— no other choice. but the health secretary, steve barclay, called the secretary, steve barclay, called ine eeiien— secretary, steve barclay, called the action extremely disappointing . chanting we are disappointing. chanting we are ready— disappointing. chanting we are ready ie— disappointing. chanting we are easy is neve— disappointing. chanting we are ready to have discussions with inen. — ready to have discussions with inen. nui— ready to have discussions with them. but clearly— ready to have discussions with them. f 3: them. but clearly see a demand for 35% over £20,000 for some

junior doctors is not fair or reasonable . and that is why reasonable. and that is why we've not been able to make progress so far. but we want to engage constructive albie. we recognise junior doctors have been under significant pressure , particularly from the pandemic and we want to work with them to find a fair and reasonable settlement. the economy now and the international monetary fund has upgraded its forecast for the uk economy, but predicts it will still underperform , will still underperform, dropping to the worst among g7 nations. it expects the uk esnsny— nations. it expects the uk economy will— nations. it expects the uk economy will in- it expects the uk economy will in fact shrink by seis— economy will in fact shrink by esn inis— economy will in fact shrink by esn inis year. — economy will in fact shrink by 0.3% this year. that's an improvement— 0.3% this year. that's an improvement of half a percentage psini— improvement of half a percentage psini irsn — improvement of half a percentage point from previous— improvement of half a percentage point from previous estimates. it point from previous estimates. ii men— point from previous estimates. it then projects— point from previous estimates. it then projects ,_ point from previous estimates. it then projects , however, it it then projects, however, it niii— it then projects, however, it will recover— it then projects, however, it will recover by— it then projects, however, it will recover by a full 1% next year— will recover by a full 1% next year .— will recover by a full 1% next year . iiii— will recover by a full 1% next year. imf chief— will recover by a full 1% next year. imf chief economist says the year. imf chief economist says ine sniy— year. imf chief economist says ine sniy siner— year. imf chief economist says the only other economy it expesis— the only other economy it expeeis is— the only other economy it expects to contract is germany , expects to contract is germany, ana— expects to contract is germany, and inas— expects to contract is germany, and ma niii— expects to contract is germany, and that will be _ expects to contract is germany, and that will be by 0.1 of a% saying— and that will be by 0.1 of a% siayinp niin— and that will be by 0.1 of a% staying with business, the isrrner— staying with business, the former boss _ staying with business, the former boss of— staying with business, the former boss of the cbi, tony pannen— former boss of the cbi, tony

manner, says— former boss of the cbi, tony danker, says he's- former boss of the cbi, tony danker, says he's shocked he's seen— danker, says he's shocked he's been sacked— danker, says he's shocked he's been sacked over— danker, says he's shocked he's been sacked over complaints of nisesnaasi— been sacked over complaints of nisssnaasi .— been sacked over complaints of misconduct . an— been sacked over complaints of misconduct . an independent misconduct. an independent investigation— misconduct. an independent investigation found serious iaiiinps— investigation found serious failings with— investigation found serious failings with the confederation of failings with the confederation si nriiisn — failings with the confederation of british industry admitting the allegations— of british industry admitting the allegations were devastating . inree— the allegations were devastating . inree siner— the allegations were devastating . three other members of staff nave— . three other members of staff nave aiss— . three other members of staff have also been— . three other members of staff have also been suspended. mr. duncan— have also been suspended. mr. duncan claims— have also been suspended. mr. duncan claims many of the assasaiisns— duncan claims many of the accusations made against him nave— accusations made against him nave seen— accusations made against him have been distorted . but he is, have been distorted. but he is, he have been distorted. but he is, ne says— have been distorted. but he is, ne says, iraiy— have been distorted. but he is, he says, truly sorry for his penavisan — he says, truly sorry for his behaviour. the— he says, truly sorry for his behaviour. the former cbi chief esnsisi— behaviour. the former cbi chief economist rain— behaviour. the former cbi chief economist rain newton—smith will repiase— economist rain newton—smith will repiaee nin — economist rain newton—smith will repiaee nin .— economist rain newton—smith will replace him . now— economist rain newton—smith will replace him . now labour has replace him. now labour has iaansnea— replace him. now labour has iaansnea a— replace him. now labour has launched a new— replace him. now labour has launched a new advert claiming the launched a new advert claiming ine nine— launched a new advert claiming the prime minister— launched a new advert claiming the prime minister is personally respsnsiiie— the prime minister is personally responsible for— the prime minister is personally responsible for the country's economic woes— responsible for the country's economic woes ._ responsible for the country's economic woes . the twitter ad economic woes. the twitter ad pesnea— economic woes. the twitter ad pnsnea sai— economic woes. the twitter ad pushed out today,— economic woes. the twitter ad pushed out today, says rishi sinan— pushed out today, says rishi sanan ,— pushed out today, says rishi sunak , thinks— pushed out today, says rishi sunak , thinks it's right to sunak, thinks it's right to aise— sunak, thinks it's right to raise taxes— sunak, thinks it's right to raise taxes for— sunak, thinks it's right to raise taxes for working people, nniie— raise taxes for working people, nniie nis— raise taxes for working people, while his family— raise taxes for working people, while his family benefited from aiax— while his family benefited from a tax loophole— while his family benefited from a tax loophole ._ while his family benefited from a tax loophole . it's the second a tax loophole. it's the second perssnai— a tax loophole. it's the second personal attack— a tax loophole. it's the second personal attack on— a tax loophole. it's the second personal attack on the prime iiinisier— personal attack on the prime iiinisier in— personal attack on the prime minister in as— personal attack on the prime minister in as many days in the ap— minister in as many days in the up is— minister in as many days in the up is nay-s— minister in as many days in the run up to may's local elections. anaer— run up to may's local elections. aiier iaisar— run up to may's local elections. after labour accused him of not sensing— after labour accused him of not sending anis— after labour accused him of not sending child sex— after labour accused him of not sending child sex abusers to prissn. — sending child sex abusers to prissn. esin— sending child sex abusers to prison. both adverts have

angered— prison. both adverts have angered mps,_ prison. both adverts have angered mps, including within the angered mps, including within ine iaisar— angered mps, including within the labour party— angered mps, including within the labour party itself, but the snaasn— the labour party itself, but the shadow chancellor, rachel reeve— shadow chancellor, rachel reeve says— shadow chancellor, rachel reeves, says they highlight the dire reeves, says they highlight the sire esra — reeves, says they highlight the dire record of— reeves, says they highlight the dire record of the— reeves, says they highlight the dire record of the conservative psvernneni— dire record of the conservative psvernrneni — dire record of the conservative government . the— dire record of the conservative government . dire record of the conservative government. dire record of the conservative government . government. the truth is that many serious offenders are not going to jail and the ads that we're putting out today are a reminder that working people are paying reminder that working people are paying the highest taxes in 70 years. i'm not going to make any apology for highlighting the dire record of this conservative government and this conservative prime minister. well in years away from home, a man who shot dead five of his colleagues in a bankin dead five of his colleagues in a bank in the us state of kentucky , bought his weapon legally just days before the attack. louisville police have said days before the attack. - louisville police have said the pennan— louisville police have said the gunman vns-s— louisville police have said the gunman, who's identified as 23 year— gunman, who's identified as 23 year sis— gunman, who's identified as 23 year sia esnsr— gunman, who's identified as 23 year old conor sturgeon , was a year old conor sturgeon, was a sereni— year old conor sturgeon, was a current employee— year old conor sturgeon, was a current employee of the old raiisnai— current employee of the old national bank— current employee of the old national bank where the shooting issr— national bank where the shooting issr piase. — national bank where the shooting issr piase. ne— national bank where the shooting took place. he was— national bank where the shooting took place. he was shot dead at the took place. he was shot dead at ine sene— took place. he was shot dead at the scene yesterday. another isar— the scene yesterday. another four victims, _ the scene yesterday. another four victims, including at least psiise— four victims, including at least one police officer,— four victims, including at least one police officer, remain in nsspiiai.— one police officer, remain in nsspiiai. ivvs— one police officer, remain in hospital. two are— one police officer, remain in hospital. two are in intensive . ine— hospital. two are in intensive care . the investigation ongoing care. the investigation ongoing ana— care. the investigation ongoing and nanareas— care. the investigation ongoing

and hundreds of— care. the investigation ongoing and hundreds of people have garnered— and hundreds of people have painerea in— and hundreds of people have gathered in the— and hundreds of people have gathered in the west bank for the gathered in the west bank for ine innerai— gathered in the west bank for the funeral service of a mother vns— the funeral service of a mother vvns vas— the funeral service of a mother who was killed— the funeral service of a mother who was killed in— the funeral service of a mother who was killed in a shooting aiiaer— who was killed in a shooting aiiaer iasi— who was killed in a shooting attack last week— who was killed in a shooting attack last week . lucy dee and attack last week. lucy dee and her attack last week. lucy dee and ner ins— attack last week. lucy dee and her two british _ attack last week. lucy dee and her two british israeli daughters, _ her two british israeli daughters, rina and maya, were snsr— daughters, rina and maya, were snsi in— daughters, rina and maya, were snsi in ineir— daughters, rina and maya, were shot in their car— daughters, rina and maya, were shot in their car by a suspected raiesiinian— shot in their car by a suspected palestinian gunman. the girls, ages— palestinian gunman. the girls, ages insi— palestinian gunman. the girls, apea insi is— palestinian gunman. the girls, aged just 15 and— palestinian gunman. the girls, aged just 15 and 20 years old, passes— aged just 15 and 20 years old, passes away— aged just 15 and 20 years old, passes away sn— aged just 15 and 20 years old, passed away on friday. their nsiner— passed away on friday. their nsiner vas— passed away on friday. their mother was taken to hospital siraipni— mother was taken to hospital siraipni away— mother was taken to hospital straight away in— mother was taken to hospital straight away in a critical ssnaiiisn— straight away in a critical condition, but— straight away in a critical condition, but she died of her iniaries— condition, but she died of her injuries yesterday. violence has sergea— injuries yesterday. violence has surged ass— injuries yesterday. violence has surged across the _ injuries yesterday. violence has surged across the region with inan— surged across the region with more than 90— surged across the region with more than 90 palestinians and at ease— more than 90 palestinians and at ieasi i9— more than 90 palestinians and at least 19 israelis— more than 90 palestinians and at least 19 israelis killed since ine— least 19 israelis killed since ine siari— least 19 israelis killed since ine siari si— least 19 israelis killed since the start of the— least 19 israelis killed since the start of the year . the start of the year. specialist - the start of the year. specialist divers in lancashire nave— specialist divers in lancashire have returned _ specialist divers in lancashire have returned to— specialist divers in lancashire have returned to the scene where rissia— have returned to the scene where rissia raiis— have returned to the scene where nicola bulis body— have returned to the scene where nicola bulis body was found and ianeasnire— nicola bulis body was found and lancashire police— nicola bulis body was found and lancashire police have confirmed iney-re— lancashire police have confirmed iney-re pack— lancashire police have confirmed iney-re pack is— lancashire police have confirmed they're back to the— lancashire police have confirmed they're back to the river. wye why— they're back to the river. wye vvny 7— they're back to the river. wye vvny a er— they're back to the river. wye why ? or rather— they're back to the river. wye why ? or rather where the mother why? or rather where the mother of why? or rather where the mother si ivs — why? or rather where the mother si ivs vas— why? or rather where the mother of two was last— why? or rather where the mother of two was last seen . it's part of two was last seen. it's part of two was last seen. it's part si ine— of two was last seen. it's part of the coroner's— of two was last seen. it's part of the coroner's investigation inas— of the coroner's investigation inis ner— of the coroner's investigation into her death.— of the coroner's investigation into her death. the 45 year old repsriea— into her death. the 45 year old was reported missing on the 27th of was reported missing on the 27th sr yannary— was reported missing on the 27th sr yannary vniie— was reported missing on the 27th of january while she was out vvairinp— of january while she was out vvairinp ner— of january while she was out walking her dog,— of january while she was out walking her dog, willow . that's

walking her dog, willow. that's all walking her dog, willow. that's aii ine— walking her dog, willow. that's aii ine nevvs— walking her dog, willow. that's all the news from _ walking her dog, willow. that's all the news from me for now . all the news from me for now. in — all the news from me for now. in bask— all the news from me for now. in back ai— all the news from me for now. i'm back at 7:00.— all the news from me for now. i'm back at 7:00. now, let's get siasr— i'm back at 7:00. now, let's get sink in— i'm back at 7:00. now, let's get sink in win— i'm back at 7:00. now, let's get stuck in with dewbs& co . stuck in with dewbs& co. thanks for stuck in with dewbs& co. thanks isr inan— stuck in with dewbs& co. thanks for that, polly. _ stuck in with dewbs& co. thanks for that, polly. vivi“ for that, polly. well, i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company right through till 7:00 tonight alongside me, alex dean, the political consults , joins me. i political consults, joins me. i almost called you a political sock , erg sultan. i don't know sock, erg sultan. i don't know what's a sock sultan? i don't know . i don't know either. i know. i don't know either. i think i'm just making up words. skegness. it's gone to my head . skegness. it's gone to my head. michael walker alongside him to the editor at the contributing editor at novara media. welcome, gents . novara media. welcome, gents. welcome to you guys at home. are you raring to go after your easter break? erg are you sitting at the screen saying whatever, michelle easter break? what's them? would what's one of them? chance would be get in touch be a fine thing. get in touch with me tonight. lots coming your views at gbnews.uk your way. gb views at gbnews.uk is email or you tweet me is the email or you can tweet me at gb news. our top story. then

good luck if you get ill over the next few days because more than 350,000 hospital appointments and surgeries have been postponed or cancelled. why? well, i think you know the answer by now, don't you? that is because as the junior doctors are on strike, their latest strike, by the way, let's just cut to the chase. i think you know the details by now. the bma, their union wants a 35% increase and argues that there's been a 26% real term reduction in junior doctors pay in the last 15 years. michael walker, 35. perez they're having a laugh , aren't they? well, there's two ways— , aren't they? well, there's two ways si— , aren't they? well, there's two ways si issrinp— , aren't they? well, there's two ways of looking at— , aren't they? well, there's two ways of looking at it.- 313" l sign? well, there's two ways of looking at it. if pizr�* l sign? well, there's two ways of looking at it. if you say— ways of looking at it. if you say we— ways of looking at it. if you say we vani— ways of looking at it. if you say we want a— ways of looking at it. if you say we want a 35% pay rise, that nipni— say we want a 35% pay rise, that nipni ssana— say we want a 35% pay rise, that might sound unreasonable if you say we— might sound unreasonable if you say we vani— might sound unreasonable if you say we vani sr— might sound unreasonable if you say we want our pay restored to vnere— say we want our pay restored to vvnere ii— say we want our pay restored to vvnere i was— say we want our pay restored to where it was in— say we want our pay restored to where it was in 2010. that ssansa— where it was in 2010. that- sounds—reasonable. where it was in 2010. that- sounds_reasonable. in sounds much more reasonable. in nasa— sounds much more reasonable. in iasi, ysa-a— sounds much more reasonable. in fact, you'd usually— sounds much more reasonable. in fact, you'd usually expect your vases—pensi- fact, you'd usually expect your vases—perisa sii wages to rise over a period of 13 wages to rise over a period of is-insieaa— wages to rise over a period of 13-instead of- wages to rise over a period of 13 instead of decline. now 13 years instead of decline. now inere-s— 13 years instead of decline. now inere-s a— 13 years instead of decline. now there's a decline— 13 years instead of decline. now there's a decline very dramatically- there's a decline very dramatically as they say, by 25. there's a decline very dramitically as they say, by 25. there's a decline very drami actually; they say, by 25. there's a decline very drami actually learntsay, by 25. there's a decline very drami actually learnt the by 25. now i actually learnt the mathematics— now i actually learnt the mathematics of this when was mathematics of this when i was iirsi— mathematics of this when i was first listening— mathematics of this when i was first listening junior first listening to a junior

assisr— first listening to a junior doctor- radio. - first listening to a junior doctor radio. but if first listening to a junior- doctor- radio. but if you doctor on the radio. but if you reiss— doctor on the radio. but if you reins—za- doctor on the radio. but if you reduce _25, then . doctor on the radio. but if you reduce _25, then toi doctor on the radio. but if you. reduce _25, then to get reduce a wage by 25, then to get it reduce a wage by 25, then to get i iasr— reduce a wage by 25, then to get it back lwhere _ reduce a wage by 25, then to get it back-where it— reduce a wage by 25, then to get it back where it was, you it back to where it was, you nave — it back to where it was, you have-increase— it back to where it was, you have-increase it- it back to where it was, you have increase it by 33. so have to increase it by 33. so iney-re— have to increase it by 33. so iney-re insi— have to increase it by 33. so they're just arguing for pay restoration.— they're just arguing for pay restoration-the- they're just arguing for pay restoration. the other restoration. i think the other ininp— restoration. i think the other ininp is— restoration. i think the other ininp is say— restoration. i think the other thing to say here is clearly inai-s— thing to say here is clearly has an— thing to say here is clearly that's an opening offer, right? so that's an opening offer, right? sslisn-i— that's an opening offer, right? soidon't-they're- that's an opening offer, right? so don't they're going so i don't think they're going to so i don't think they're going is-sn— so i don't think they're going is-sn sirire- so i don't think they're going to-on strike until- so i don't think they're going to on strike until the to be out on strike until the psvernneni— to be out on strike until the government_35.| to be out on strike until the- government_35. that's government offer them 35. that's a-siier.— government offer them 35. that's a-siier. vsa-i— government offer them 35. that's a offer. you'd expect. a starting offer. you'd expect. nsvv— a starting offer. you'd expect. nsvv-asiisn- a starting offer. you'd expect. how action usually how industrial action usually vsrrs— how industrial action usually vsrrs-nave— how industrial action usually. works-have-that works is you have workers that get works is you have workers that pea—si— works is you have workers that pea—sf ineir- works is you have workers that get of their tether. get to the end of their tether. t hey— get to the end of their tether. they go _ get to the end of their tether. iney 90 sn — get to the end of their tether. they go on strike. they put isrvari— they go on strike. they put forwardlstarting- they go on strike. they put forward starting offer. the forward a starting offer. the psvernneni— forward a starting offer. the. government—their government put forward their siariinp— starting offer, and you're iireiy— starting offer, and you're likely-meet- starting offer, and you're likely meet somewhere likely to meet somewhere in the niiiie— likely to meet somewhere in the niiiie rsr— likely to meet somewhere in the middle for some— likely to meet somewhere in the middle for some reason, we seem to middle for some reason, we seem is nave— middle for some reason, we seem to havelgovernment_ middle for some reason, we seem to have government has to have a government who has isrpsiien— forgotten how industrial reiaiisns— forgotten how industrial relations- - forgotten how industrial relations- i'm- forgotten how industrial- relations- i'm etchings. relations work. i'm etchings. come michael. come back at you, michael. kitchen but i do, alex come back at you, michael. kilci’kli but i do, alex come back at you, michael. kitchel disagree i do, alex come back at you, michael. kitchel disagree with do, alex come back at you, michael. kitchel disagree with that.lex come back at you, michael. kitchel disagree with that sz dean i disagree with that i think least because of the think not least because of the settlement the and settlement that the nurses and paramedics reached. and i think most paramedics reached. and i think nssi pespie— paramedics reached. and i think nssi pespie-ai- paramedics reached. and i think most people _at the - most people looking at the prsiessisn— most people looking at the profession-the- most people looking at the profession the health profession in the health servise— profession in the health service, which is less well paid inan— service, which is less well paid than-doctors,- service, which is less well paid than doctors, which than the junior doctors, which reasnei— than the junior doctors, which reached surprised actually, reached i'm surprised actually, ys-re— reached i'm surprised actually,| ysa-re—ysa you're the left winger. but, you rnsvv— you're the left winger. but, you rnsvlissrinp — you're the left winger. but, you know,-looking.the- you're the left winger. but, you know, looking the higher know, i'm looking at the higher paii— know, i'm looking at the higher paii-issisrs— know, i'm looking at the higher paid-doctors who- know, i'm looking at the higher paid doctors who are paid junior doctors who are ienaniinp— paid junior doctors who are demanding 35% the demanding 35% when the paraneiiss— demanding 35% when the- paramedics—settled paramedics and nurses settled for paramedics and nurses settled isr a— paramedics and nurses settled isr a sne— paramedics and nurses settled isr a sir— paramedics and nurses settled for a one off payment and 5, vvnisn— for a one off payment and 5, vnisn i— for a one off payment and 5, which i think— for a one off payment and 5, which i think goes to show quite nsv—as— which i think goes to show quite

nsv—aslsiariinpl how unreasonable as a starting pssiiisn— how unreasonable as a starting pssiiisn-ine- how unreasonable as a starting position, the other position, 35% is. the other ininp— position, 35% is. the other ininp assai— position, 35% is. the other thing about the - position, 35% is. the other thing about the nurses, iiisneiie,— thing about the nurses, michelle, is— thing about the nurses, michelle, is that they said ininps— michelle, is that they said ininps-ssne- michelle, is that they said things come on, michelle, is that they said things-come on, us things like, come on, meet us naiivay— things like, come on, meet us naiivvay sr— things like, come on, meet us halfway or willing to halfway or we're willing to saspeni— halfway or we're willing to snspeni sr— halfway or we're willing to suspend our strike action vviinsai— suspend our strike action without agreement place without an agreement in place yet without an agreement in place yea-rais— without an agreement in place yet talks underway. yet to get talks underway. inere-s— yet to get talks underway. there's been— yet to get talks underway. there's been _of - yet to get talks underway. - there's been _of -from there's been none of that from the there's been none of that from are ina— there's been none of that from are riiii .— there's been none of that from are riiii . ani— there's been none of that from the bma . and it— there's been none of that from the bma . and it seems to me the bma. and it seems to me ieysni— the bma. and it seems to me ieysni inat— the bma. and it seems to me beyond that, it— the bma. and it seems to me beyond that, it was quite remarkable.— beyond that, it was quite remarkable. this a strike remarkable. this is a strike iesipnei— remarkable. this is a strike designed despite the oath. irsnisaiiy— designed despite the oath. ironically that— designed despite the oath. ironically that they take to do no ironically that they take to do ns-is— ironically that they take to do ns-is is— ironically that they take to do no to do maximum damage, no harm, to do maximum damage, siraipni— no harm, to do maximum damage, siraipni arter— no harm, to do maximum damage, straight after the— no harm, to do maximum damage, straight after the bank holiday witn— straight after the bank holiday vviin sse— straight after the bank holiday with some 350,000 operations esiinaiei— with some 350,000 operations esiinaiei is— with some 350,000 operations estimated to be— with some 350,000 operations estimated to be postponed. so to iiisneiie,— estimated to be postponed. so to me, michelle, they— estimated to be postponed. so to me, michelle, they are notwithstanding the points iiisnaei— notwithstanding the points michael makes completely in the vvrsnp — michael makes completely in the vvrsnp yeah.— michael makes completely in the wrong. yeah, right.— michael makes completely in the wrong. yeah, right. so- michael makes completely in the wrong. “413?“ i g michael makes completely in the wrong. / g michael makes completely in the wrong. “413?“ i g wrong. yeah, right. so i want to pick on pier restoration pick up on this pier restoration thing. that's the first point because understand that this because i understand that this 85, what it's based i 85, that's what it's based on. i get it. but you say 2010 going back, i thought it was 2008. we're going back. but irrespective of anyone that's joined profession , because joined the profession, because these ten years these guys take about ten years or it is to train, they or whatever it is to train, they won't even have been in that role back in 2008. if they role back in 2008. and if they were that role in were in that role in 2008, they're quite they're doing something quite wrong. junior wrong. if they're still junior doctors and haven't finished

their training. so if you've accepted your job, you've gone into a profession knowing the wage as it stood at the point that entered it, you've that you entered it, you've accepted that terms and condition. well, doctor condition. well, junior doctor is everyone other than consultant, so you can a consultant, so you can be a junior doctor for years. junior doctor for 1015 years. it's unusual for that to it's not unusual for that to nappen— it's not unusual for that to nappean-s— it's not unusual for that to happen, it's just those happen, so it's not just those ssri— happen, so it's not just those ssrilivs— happen, so it's not just those sort-two years— happen, so it's not just those sort two years after you sort of two years after you praiaaie— sort of two years after you graduate university. sort of two years after you graduate - university. i graduate from university. so i i— graduate from university. so i i ininr— graduate from university. so i mean, i think half the medical vvsrrisrse— mean, i think half the medical workforce-the— mean, i think half the medical workforce the nhs our workforce in the nhs is our ianisr— workforce in the nhs is our ianisr-ss- workforce in the nhs is our junior-so the- workforce in the nhs is our junior so the vast junior doctors. so the vast naisriiy— junior doctors. so the vast majority doctors. �*fiy junior doctors. so the vast majority. doctors. iwhy a majority of doctors. why would a doctor that's joined the nhs okay, somewhere in okay, let's meet somewhere in the say, right, if the middle and say, right, if you've the nhs since you've joined the nhs since 2010, done so knowing 2010, you've done so knowing the salary. you then in salary. so how are you then in a position to campaign to down position to campaign and to down tools say, i work, work , tools and say, i work, work, unless you restore the pier that i accepted to beyond the point that i even joined the team ? that i even joined the team? well, no, because that either neit— well, no, because that either veii, ii— well, no, because that either well, it didn't— well, no, because that either well, it didn't go _ well, no, because that either well, it didn't go it didn't go isvvn— well, it didn't go it didn't go isvn py— well, it didn't go it didn't go isvn iy esis— well, it didn't go it didn't go down by 33% in— well, it didn't go it didn't go down by 33% in 2008 or 2010, and men— down by 33% in 2008 or 2010, and inen stay— down by 33% in 2008 or 2010, and then stay there. _ down by 33% in 2008 or 2010, and then stay there. it's— down by 33% in 2008 or 2010, and then stay there. e p then stay there. it's been gradually eroded over time. and i what this strike is to i think what this strike is to say had enough. so say is we've had enough. so i don't agree with me.- say is we've had enough. so i don't agree with me. i- “p: g “ so i don't agree with me. i do. i do iisapree— don't agree with me. i do. i do iisapree vviin— don't agree with me. i do. i do disagree with you— don't agree with me. i do. i do disagree with you because it it

is ii— disagree with you because it it is i is— disagree with you because it it is it is perfectly— disagree with you because it it is it is perfectly possible for ssneisiy— is it is perfectly possible for ssneisiy is— is it is perfectly possible for somebody to enter a workplace, espesiaiiy—anl especially when it involves an eieneni— especially when it involves an element—which. especially when it involves ani element—which cuts element of vocation which cuts isin— element of vocation which cuts both—right- element of vocation which cuts both—right. but- element of vocation which cuts both—right. but if. both ways here. right. but if yse-re— both ways here. right. but if you're as a junior you're working as a junior issisn— you're working as a junior issisr, yse-re— you're working as a junior doctor, you're not going to saiieniy— doctor, you're not going to sniieniy ps— doctor, you're not going to suddenly go and work a suddenly go off and work in a iiiiereni— suddenly go off and work in a different industry, you different industry, although you may— different industry, although you nay—in— different industry, although you nay—in a- different industry, although you may in a different may go and work in a different ssaniry— may go and work in a different ssaniry-vsa— may go and work in a different country.-you that's- may go and work in a different country. you that's the country. right? you that's the iissipiine— country. right? you that's the discipline -you've- country. right? you that's the discipline you've chosen . discipline that you've chosen. vsa— discipline that you've chosen. you-entitled- you are still entitled ultimately- you are still entitled ultimately say, i'm not you are still entitled— ultimatelylsay, i'm not being ultimately to say, i'm not being paii— ultimately to say, i'm not being paii-ani— ultimately to say, i'm not being paii-ani ysar- ultimately to say, i'm not being paii-ani ysar pay- ultimately to say, i'm not being paid and your pay may paid properly and your pay may nave— paid properly and your pay may have disintegrated or deteriorated. badly that deteriorated. so badly that you nave— deteriorated. so badly that you nave-ten— deteriorated. so badly that you nave -ieii is - deteriorated. so badly that you have - left to you - deteriorated. so badly that you have left to you but to have nothing left to you but to viiniravv— have nothing left to you but toi withdraw _concede withdraw your labour. i concede inat— withdraw your labour. i concede in as— withdraw your labour. i concede that aslpremise. _ withdraw your labour. i concede that as premise. indeed that as a premise. and indeed inat— that as a premise. and indeed in was— that as a premise. and indeed in ine— that as a premise. and indeed that was the case— that as a premise. and indeed that was the case with barristers _ that was the case with barristers and our junior iarrisiers— barristers and our junior barristers criminal barristers and our junior- barristers-criminal bar barristers and our junior- baripaids-criminal bar barristers and our junior baripaid appallingly. inal bar barristers and our junior baripaid appallingly. sol bar barristers and our junior baripaid appallingly. so it'd r barristers and our junior baripaid appallingly. so it'd be are paid appallingly. so it'd be quite—si— are paid appallingly. so it'd be quite—st ne- are paid appallingly. so it'd be quite—st me is- quite hypocritical of me to mini— quite hypocritical of me to| think—principle think that with in principle assai— think that with in principle about barristers and not think assai— about barristers and not think aisai inat— about barristers and not think about that with— about barristers and not think about that with doctors . where about that with doctors. where the about that with doctors. where ins-isse — about that with doctors. where ins-isse ne— about that with doctors. where the-lose melin- the doctors lose me is in prasiise— the doctors lose me is in practise it's— the doctors lose me is in practise it's where they mount not practise it's where they mount nsi a— practise it's where they mount nsi a sne— practise it's where they mount nsi a iay— practise it's where they mount not a one day or— practise it's where they mount not a one day or a— practise it's where they mount not a one day or a 48 hour strike,— not a one day or a 48 hour strike-a— not a one day or a 48 hour strike,-a four- not a one day or a 48 hour strike,-a four day- not a one day or a 48 hour strike, a four day strike strike, but a four day strike ine— strike, but a four day strike time is— strike, but a four day strike time is ie— strike, but a four day strike time to be straight after time to be done straight after a tank— time to be done straight after a tank nsiiiay— time to be done straight after a bank holiday when it's going to i bank holiday when it's going to i mean— bank holiday when it's going to i mean-inpasi— bank holiday when it's going to i mean,-impact on- bank holiday when it's going to i mean, impact on patients. i mean, the impact on patients. as i mean, the impact on patients. rs-snairnan— i mean, the impact on patients. as-chairman of— i mean, the impact on patients. as-chairman of the- i mean, the impact on patients. as chairman of the nhs as the chairman of the nhs confederation— as the chairman of the nhs confederation said, not confederation said, let's not preieni— confederation said, let's not pretend-isn't- confederation said, let's not pretend isn't going to have pretend this isn't going to have sipniiisani— pretend this isn't going to have sipn patient— pretend this isn't going to have sign patient outcomes. and that's bad patient outcomes. and that's vnai— bad patient outcomes. and that's vnai snssrs— bad patient outcomes. and that's what shocks me— bad patient outcomes. and that's what shocks me here. it's the ienpin— what shocks me here. it's the ienpin ani— what shocks me here. it's the length and extent of the strike.

they— length and extent of the strike. iney are— length and extent of the strike. they are entitled— length and extent of the strike. they are entitled to take industrial— they are entitled to take industrial action. they are eniiiiei— industrial action. they are entitled-argue- industrial action. they are entitled argue for remedial entitled to argue for a remedial pssiiisn— entitled to argue for a remedial pssiiisnlineir— entitled to argue for a remedial position .their pay.- entitled to argue for a remedial position their pay. just position on their pay. they just snsaiin-i— position on their pay. they just shouldn't—like- position on their pay. they just shouldn't like this shouldn't be doing it like this . ani— shouldn't be doing it like this . anilseens— shouldn't be doing it like this . and .seems to _ shouldn't be doing it like this . and seems to me it's really . and it seems to me it's really going— . and it seems to me it's really psinp is— . and it seems to me it's really psinp is nave— . and it seems to me it's really going to have significant harms for going to have significant harms rsr—inat— going to have significant harms rsr—inai says- for a profession that says first,— for a profession that says first-ns— for a profession that says first, no harm. first, do no harm. that is easy— first, do no harm. that is exactly the sentence i was just about you. do you think about to ask you. do you think it against their it goes against their hippocratic you hippocratic oath? i do. do you think it goes against that? no. and the reason i think that and assay— and the reason i think that and actually-reason— and the reason i think that and actually reason i'm actually the reason i'm espesiaiiy— actually the reason i'm . especially _to especially sympathetic to issisrs— especially sympathetic to doctors - not - especially sympathetic to doctors not just especially sympathetic to - doctors - not just about doctors and it's not just about pav— doctors and it's not just about pay—everysnei pay doctors, nurses, everyone vns— pay doctors, nurses, everyone. vvns—everysne who works in the nhs, everyone vns— who works in the nhs, everyone vvns vvsrrs— who works in the nhs, everyone vvns vsrrs in— who works in the nhs, everyone who works in social— who works in the nhs, everyone who works in social care is, i inni— who works in social care is, i print, nsi— who works in social care is, i think, not only— who works in social care is, i think, not only have this group of think, not only have this group si vvsrersr— think, not only have this group of workers been— think, not only have this group of workers been to take of workers been asked to take a pay— of workers been asked to take a pay-sver— of workers been asked to take a pay-sver a— of workers been asked to take a pay-sver a pensi- of workers been asked to take a pay over a period of 13 or pay cut over a period of 13 or 15 pay cut over a period of 13 or is-iai— pay cut over a period of 13 or is-iai aiss— pay cut over a period of 13 or 15-but also they- pay cut over a period of 13 or 15 but also they have 15 years, but also they have psne— 15 years, but also they have psne insign— 15 years, but also they have gone through enormously gone through an enormously iiiiisaii— gone through an enormously difficult-think- gone through an enormously difficult-think i. gone through an enormously difficult think i was difficult time. so i think i was ainssi— difficult time. so i think i was almost-enough- difficult time. so i think i was almost-enough to- difficult time. so i think i was almost enough to think almost naive enough to think vvnen—ine- almost naive enough to think when—the height. almost naive enough to think when the height of when we were in the height of the when we were in the height of tire panienis— when we were in the height of the pandemic that were the pandemic that when we were siappinp— the pandemic that when we were siappinp rsr— the pandemic that when we were siappinp rsr-ani- the pandemic that when we were clapping for and nhs clapping for carers and nhs vvsrersr— clapping for carers and nhs workers every— clapping for carers and nhs workers every thursday, that we were-isrninp— workers every thursday, that we. were _forming-social were almost forming a new social ssnirasi— were almost forming a new social ssnirasi-vve— were almost forming a new social ssnirasi-vve ssri— were almost forming a new social contract-we sort of- were almost forming a new social contract we sort of agreed were almost forming a new social cont actually we sort of agreed were almost forming a new social cont actually payingirt of agreed were almost forming a new social cont actually paying theseagreed that actually paying these pespie— that actually paying these pespie-ve— that actually paying these people we consider essential people who we consider essential vvsrersr— people who we consider essential workers—something- workers properly is something vnisn— which is worth doing now. i ininr— which is worth doing now. i ininr|ysa— which is worth doing now. i thinkiyou know,- which is worth doing now. i think you know, as i say, think i you know, as i say, nayie— think i you know, as i say, nayie ii— think i you know, as i say, maybe it was— think i you know, as i say, maybe it was naive, but i imagine— maybe it was naive, but i imagine lots— maybe it was naive, but i imagine lots of- maybe it was naive, but i imagine lots of doctors, nurses, neaiin— imagine lots of doctors, nurses, neaiin sae— imagine lots of doctors, nurses, health care workers had the same

inpressisn— health care workers had the same impression, which— health care workers had the same impression, which was say, we impression, which was to say, we are-reaiiy— impression, which was to say, we are-reaiiy pai- impression, which was to say, we are-really put the - impression, which was to say, we are really put the work are going to really put the work in vnisn— are going to really put the work in vnisn iney— are going to really put the work in which they did.— are going to really put the work in which they did. are going in which they did. we are going to in which they did. we are going is igni— in which they did. we are going to fight through— in which they did. we are going to fight through this hellish siiaaiisn— to fight through this hellish- situation,_which situation, which they did, which was—si- situation, which they did, which was—st as- was a pandemic none of us evpesiei— was a pandemic none of us expected. .they - was a pandemic none of us expected. they thought expected. and they thought that vnen— expected. and they thought that wen—ii,- expected. and they thought that when—p, ineyi when they came out of it, they vsaii— when they came out of it, they vsaii ie— when they came out of it, they would be appreciated. but no, iney-ve— would be appreciated. but no, iney-ve-isii— would be appreciated. but no, they've told you've the they've been told you've had the nssi— they've been told you've had the most—difficult- most difficult two difficult years— most difficult two difficult years-ine- most difficult two difficult years-life and- most difficult two difficult years life and now years of your life and now yse-re— years of your life and now ye psinp— years of your life and now ye psinp is— years of your life and now you're going to have to accept a pay— you're going to have to accept a pay sai— you're going to have to accept a pay sni isvn— you're going to have to accept a pay sni isvn ine— you're going to have to accept a pay cut down the wrong end of the pay cut down the wrong end of tire ieiessspe— pay cut down the wrong end of the telescope - do - pay cut down the wrong end of the telescope do you the telescope because do you rnsvv— the telescope because do you know _worked - the telescope because do you- know _worked-hard? know who else worked that hard? inspe— know who else worked that hard? these—paramedics- know who else worked that hard? these—paramedics whoi these nurses and paramedics who just accepted a one payment, just accepted a one off payment, they haven't accepted they actually haven't accepted it they it yet. okay. because they haven't. and are actually haven't. and there are actually isis— haven't. and there are actually ise-vns— haven't. and there are actually lots _who - upset. lots of nurses who are upset assai— lots of nurses who are upset aisai inis. — lots of nurses who are upset about this. so— lots of nurses who are upset about this. so i'm- lots of nurses who are upset about this. so i'm not sure that their action. okay. if it their action. okay. even if it doesn't wind up being which doesn't wind up being 5, which i imagine it will, it's going to be going to be be 6 or 7. it's not going to be 35. where do the doctors get the gall to that kind of gall to demand that kind of uplift as compared to their fellow workers? that's the at the risk patient the at the real risk of patient harm. that's exercises me harm. that's what exercises me about this. one of the challenges— about this. one of the. challenges-with about this. one of the challenges-with of challenges i've had with all of anis— challenges i've had with all of this because— challenges i've had with all of this because like— challenges i've had with all of this because like anyone, i respesi— this because like anyone, ii respect—needed respect doctors, i've needed the ris— respect doctors, i've needed the ins—i— respect doctors, i've needed the ins—i sappsril respect doctors, i've needed thei nhs—i support the nhs myself and i. i support the insiiiaiisn— nhs myself and i. i support the institution as— nhs myself and i. i support the institution as a— nhs myself and i. i support the institution as a concept, aiinsapn— institution as a concept,i although-make institution as a concept,- although-make some although i probably make some big although i probably make some iii—ii.- although i probably make some iii—ii. rail big serious reforms to it. but i is.— big serious reforms to it. but i is. i— big serious reforms to it. but i is. i insi— big serious reforms to it. but i is. i iasi sit— big serious reforms to it. but i do. i just sit there— big serious reforms to it. but i

do. i just sit there i think do. i just sit there and i think i-ve— do. i just sit there and i think i-ve-ineir— do. i just sit there and i think i-ve-ineir rr— do. i just sit there and i think i've-their pr so- do. i just sit there and i think i've their pr so like when i've seen their pr so like when iney-re—a- i've seen their pr so like when. iney-re—a rnanerp they're doing this pret a manger sanpaipn—isi campaign and they're saying to pespie— campaign and they're saying to people-know,— campaign and they're saying to pespie,-rnsvv a— campaign and they're saying to people, know, a coffee people, you know, a coffee maker earnssssr—ii- people, you know, a coffee maker earns—doctor and- earns more than a doctor and its— earns more than a doctor and it's nonsense. _not- earns more than a doctor and it's nonsense. not true. it's nonsense. that's not true. inat— it's nonsense. that's not true. inai is— it's nonsense. that's not true. inai is a— it's nonsense. that's not true. that is a real— it's nonsense. that's not true. that is a real twisting of saints— statistics in order. and by the way,— statistics in order. and by the way, i— statistics in order. and by the way, i ininr— statistics in order. and by the way, i think it's— statistics in order. and by the way, i think it's quite rude, asiaaiiy— way, i think it's quite rude, asiaaiiy, is — way, i think it's quite rude, actually, to a— way, i think it's quite rude, actually, to a barista. but so for actually, to a barista. but so rsr—issi- actually, to a barista. but so rsr—issi ne- actually, to a barista. but sol for—lost me along for me, they've lost me along ine— for me, they've lost me along| the—messaging. the way with their messaging. yeah.— the way with their messaging. vean.-i— the way with their messaging. vean.-i ininr- the way with their messaging. yeah,-i think that- the way with their messaging. yeah,-i think that ad. yeah, i mean, i think that ad was probably misplaced, but i think, back think, again, to go back to where talking this where i was talking about this do argument, i think do no harm argument, i think they they have this sort of concept like moral harm in the nhs, where nhs, doctors and nurses, where not you going to work not only are you going to work and feel like not and you feel like you're not getting paid enough know getting paid enough and you know people think that they are you might think that they are not the poorest people in society. aren't. society. they aren't. but if you're hour, you you're getting £14 an hour, you are especially if are struggling, especially if you're a in a city at you're living in a in a city at the moment. are going the moment. and rents are going up. not do you feel up. now so not only do you feel like undervalued when like you're undervalued when it comes paycheque, but you comes to your paycheque, but you go a vocation. go to work. it is a vocation. you love what you do, but you feel like you can't your feel like you can't do your job to it should be done. to the level it should be done. you know, you are seeing that you are dealing your you are not dealing with your patients to patients in the way you want to deal with them because the nhs is now, in december, is so stressed now, in december, before doctors before any junior doctors were

on is how on strike, 93 minutes is how long took ambulance on long it took for an ambulance on average to someone who average to get to someone who had had a stroke. it should had just had a stroke. it should be minutes. you had 50,000 be 18 minutes. you had 50,000 people month waiting be 18 minutes. you had 50,000 peop12 month waiting be 18 minutes. you had 50,000 peop12 hours month waiting be 18 minutes. you had 50,000 peop12 hours inionth waiting be 18 minutes. you had 50,000 peop12 hours inionth now,�*ig over 12 hours in a&e. now, that's that's that's problematic for cost that's that's that's problematic fo lot cost that's that's that's problematic fo lot of cost that's that's that's problematic fo lot of lives. cost that's that's that's problematic fo lot of lives. but cost that's that's that's problematic fo lot of lives. but it's cost that's that's that's problematic fo lot of lives. but it's also 3st a lot of lives. but it's also problematic for the doctors, the nurses, the ambulance drivers, problematic for the doctors, the nurzhealthe ambulance drivers, problematic for the doctors, the nurzhealthe amlassistants vers, problematic for the doctors, the nurzhealthe amlassistants who the health care assistants who can they're going can see that they're going home at not at the end of the day not thinking, i've done good job thinking, i've done a good job and people thinking thinking, i've done a good job acould people thinking thinking, i've done a good job acould not people thinking thinking, i've done a good job acould not help people thinking thinking, i've done a good job acould not help people to �*iking thinking, i've done a good job acould not help people to theg i could not help people to the degree that i would like to have done to a significant extent thatis done to a significant extent that is due to sickness within the nhs itself. and the many nhs stati— the nhs itself. and the many nhs staff vsaii— r and the many nhs staff would misallocation r and the many nhs stafishortage misallocation r and the many nhs stafishortage of misallocation r and the many nhs stafishortage of resources. :ation r and the many nhs stafishortage of resources. now and shortage of resources. now insse— and shortage of resources. now insse ininps— and shortage of resources. now those things may— and shortage of resources. now those things may be true, but it's different— those things may be true, but it's different from deliberately vviiniravvinp— it's different from deliberately withdrawing your labour and seeing—is- withdrawing your labour and seeing—is ine| seeing the outcomes to the patients— seeing the outcomes to the patients talking patients that you're talking aisai. — about. so this morning i was iisieninp— about. so this morning i was. listening—leaders listening to one of the leaders of listening to one of the leaders si-sirire— listening to one of the leaders of-strike action- listening to one of the leaders of strike action being of this strike action being interviewed— of this strike action being interviewed by— of this strike action being interviewed by a rival news servise— interviewed by a rival news serviselysars— interviewed by a rival news service yours who asked service of yours who was asked inat— service of yours who was asked inai-iaesiisn— service of yours who was asked that question about that same question about first do that same question about first islnarn— that same question about first islnarn ani— that same question about first do.harm and was- that same question about first do harm and was offered the do no harm and was offered the evanpie— do no harm and was offered the evanpie si— do no harm and was offered the evanpie si a— do no harm and was offered the example of a of— do no harm and was offered the example of a of a— do no harm and was offered the example of a of a patient that nai— example of a of a patient that nai teen— example of a of a patient that had been interviewed on that news broadcast— had been interviewed on that news broadcast who was saying inat— news broadcast who was saying in men— news broadcast who was saying that their operation had been sanseiiei— that their operation had been sanseiissi— that their operation had been cancelleof-for- that their operation had been cancelleof-for it.- that their operation had been cancelleof for it. really months of waiting for it. really anvisas-rni- months of waiting for it. really anxious-and in- months of waiting for it. really anxious and in the anxious about it. and in the endi—

anxious about it. and in the eni-inai— anxious about it. and in the end, that representative of end, that that representative of the end, that that representative of ins-basisaiiy- end, that that representative of the basically said, oh, the strikers basically said, oh, vett— the strikers basically said, oh, wen, ve— the strikers basically said, oh, wen, ve ine— the strikers basically said, oh, well, we the industry won't be happy- _ well, we the industry won't be nappy. vie— well, we the industry won't be nappy. vve vvsn-i— well, we the industry won't be happy. we won't be happy until we gei— happy. we won't be happy until we get inis— happy. we won't be happy until we get this kind— happy. we won't be happy until we get this kind of 35% uplift. ani— we get this kind of 35% uplift. rni ii— we get this kind of 35% uplift. rni i was— we get this kind of 35% uplift. and it was remarkably it was the sppssiie— and it was remarkably it was the sppssiie si— and it was remarkably it was the sppssiie si ine— and it was remarkably it was the opposite of the sense of occasion we've- opposite of the sense of occasion we've been to led evpesi. — occasion we've been to led evpesi. .ii— occasion we've been to led expect. if michael's asking expect. and if michael's asking us expect. and if michael's asking. as—siappinp us how we've gone from clapping to us how we've gone from clapping is—vve— us how we've gone from clapping is—vve are- us how we've gone from clapping is—vve isiay| to carers to where we are today ,-n.ap_ to carers to where we are today ,-pna inat— to carers to where we are today ,-that that public- , you lose that that public snppsri— , you lose that that public snppsn very— , you lose that that public support very quickly. that's very— support very quickly. that's very disingenuous. pig very disingenuous. that's very disingenuous, though, because it wasn't the that we were wasn't the case that we were going give nurses and doctors going to give nurses and doctors pay going to give nurses and doctors pay they went pay restoration until they went on strike. right. and strike is a again, i know a last resort. again, i know lots doctors, nurses, health lots of doctors, nurses, health care these care assistants, none of these people want to harm. they've people want to do harm. they've gone profession gone into this profession because they want to help people. so don't anyone people. so i don't think anyone one is taking this decision in any way lightly, but they think they've enough. and see they've had enough. and they see that crumbling around that the nhs is crumbling around them. there lots and them. and there were lots and lots were lots of operations that were cancelled before this strike. so yes, incredibly unfortunate cancelled before this strike. so yes your incredibly unfortunate cancelled before this strike. so yes your operation unfortunate cancelled before this strike. so yes your operation wasrrtunate . if your operation was cancelled that's cancelled this week, that's really be difficult for really going to be difficult for you. it's going to be heartbreaking. was heartbreaking. but if it was cancelled two months ago, that's also be heartbreaking. also going to be heartbreaking. your answer is, oh, no, your answer is, oh, well, no, ns-iiy— your answer is, oh, well, no, no, no,-my answer.- your answer is, oh, well, no, no, no, hg hg your answer is, oh, well, no,- no, no,-my answer. my answer no, no, no. my answer. my answer is ends justify the is the ends might justify the

means. ends is you means. and if the ends is you have an where are have an nhs where workers are feeling like are properly feeling like they are properly valued, where they're not encouraged move encouraged to go, move to america where america and australia, where they a higher wage, they might get a higher wage, then worth the then that might be worth the pain this for days to get to pain of this for days to get to an outcome where the nhs is in the long term on a more sustainable. those are policy views— sustainable. those are policy vnisn— sustainable. those are policy views which you— sustainable. those are policy views which you and- those are policy views which you and i, not being issisrs—in— views which you and i, not being doctors—in touch.- doctors are perfectly in touch. we doctors are perfectly in touch. vie—assai- doctors are perfectly in touch.j we _ about them, doctors are perfectly in touch.- we _about them, but we may disagree about them, but wees-i— we may disagree about them, but vvsres-i iare— we may disagree about them, but we're-to take views- we're entitled to take views on ani—in-vayl we're entitled to take views on. ani—in-vay inai and express them in the way that you and express them in the way that yse-vsa-re— and express them in the way that yse-vsa-re nsi— and express them in the way that you-you're not if- and express them in the way that you you're not if you're you have. you're not if you're a issisr— you have. you're not if you're a issisr vnsse— you have. you're not if you're a doctor whose duty— you have. you're not if you're a doctor whose duty is to the patient— doctor whose duty is to the patient in— doctor whose duty is to the patient in front— doctor whose duty is to the. patient in front-you patient in front of you. if you are-ine— patient in front of you. if you are-ine-sil are treating the assassin of riranan— are treating the assassin of abraham lincoln, your duty isn't to abraham lincoln, your duty isn't is—si-siaiei to the wider notion of the state ani— to the wider notion of the state ani vneiner— to the wider notion of the state and whether or— to the wider notion of the state and whether or not you should assist— and whether or not you should assist-is— and whether or not you should assist-is gei— and whether or not you should assist to get away. you assist them to get away. you ireai— assist them to get away. you ireai ine— assist them to get away. you treat the broken _ assist them to get away. you treat the broken leg because treat the broken leg now because yse-re— treat the broken leg now because ysa-re-ani— treat the broken leg now because ysa-re-ani ysar- you're a doctor and your responsibility- you're a doctor and your responsibility individual responsibility is the individual patient— responsibility is the individuali patient—asset patient not to pontificate about irsaien— broader. this isn't pontification. is this pontification. this is this is this they work every this is where they work every day. they work day. this is where they work every they see not every day so they can see or not work. crumbling for work. nhs crumbling around for these four specific days when they're strike, which they're on strike, which you admitted this admitted at the start of this conversation, is a legitimate thing workers. quick thing for workers. quick question. how all question. how would you fund all inse— question. how would you fund all inns-nsiii— question. how would you fund all this?-would you— question. how would you fund all this?-would you fund- : iii“ how would you fund all this? would you fund all this? how would you fund all inise — this? how would you fund all inise i— this? how would you fund all this? i would— this? how would you fund all this? i would tax- this? how would you fund all this? : chs< this? how would you fund all this? : it.“ this? i would tax the rich a little bit more. who's the rich?

who's the rich people over little bit more. who's the rich? wso s the rich people over little bit more. who's the rich? wso ithe rich people over little bit more. who's the rich? wso i thinkch people over little bit more. who's the rich? wso i think you eople over little bit more. who's the rich? wso i think you could over little bit more. who's the rich? wso i think you could raise er k so i think you could raise a lot of money by taxing people over think there are over 80. k i think there are lots people who accruing lots of people who are accruing a wealth, especially a lot of wealth, especially actually over the covid 19 pandemic. house prices went up, so you'd be taxing people like the a more money the consultants a lot more money to junior doctors or to pay for the junior doctors or i actually you've i think actually if you've got some of the top end junior doctors, all of doctors, when you add all of their, know, their unsavoury their, you know, their unsavoury hours, their their bonuses, you'd more. hours, their their bonuses, you'd i more. hours, their their bonuses, you'd i that's more. hours, their their bonuses, you'd i that's sortrre. hours, their their bonuses, you'd i that's sort of the yeah, i mean, that's sort of the sssiai— yeah, i mean, that's sort of the social democrats— yeah, i mean, that's sort of the social democrats vision of sssieiy— social democrats vision of society, which _ social democrats vision of society, which is to you society, which is to say, you prsperiy— properly fund public services ani— properly fund public services ani-ii— properly fund public services and-itihigher- properly fund public services and it higher taxes, and you do it by higher taxes, vnisn— and you do it by higher taxes, vnisn are— and you do it by higher taxes, which are progressive. so iney-ii— which are progressive. so they'll disproportionately they'll be disproportionately on the wealthy, and that will include sector include some public sector workers consultants. workers like consultants. it will also include bankers. it will also include bankers. it will include already will also include they already pay a will also include they already pay a huge amount to the state because lots the because they have lots of the income wealth income and the wealth already. i mean, it's not radical concept mean, it's not a radical concept to should progressively to say we should progressively tax that we can tax the public. so that we can properly services, tax the public. so that we can pr0|the( services, tax the public. so that we can pr0|the( 28. services, tax the public. so that we can pr0|the( 28. i services, tax the public. so that we can pr0|the( 28. i mean,es, tax the public. so that we can pr0|the( 28. i mean, what, tax the top 1, 28. i mean, what, zen— tax the top 1, 28. i mean, what, zen si— tax the top 1, 28. i mean, what, zen si sr— tax the top 1, 28. i mean, what, 28% of our tax— tax the top 1, 28. i mean, what, 28% of our tax take— chs< �* $78 i mean, what, 28% of our tax take comes from top 28% of our tax take comes from isplnsv— 28% of our tax take comes from isplnsv nasn— 28% of our tax take comes from top how much more progressive top 1. how much more progressive do top 1. how much more progressive is yse— top 1. how much more progressive is ysa vani— top 1. how much more progressive is ysn want is— top 1. how much more progressive do you want to be— top 1. how much more progressive do you want to be people do you want to be before people stari— do you want to be before people sianvnai— do you want to be before people startwhat about— do you want to be before people startwhat about the— do you want to be before people star1r“pc pig and what about the argument actually wealthy, the actually that the wealthy, the wealthier more wealthier people are, the more likely to have likely they're going to have private health care, so the less of a drain the less usage

of a drain and the less usage they're put the very they're going to put on the very service want to service that you want them to pay service that you want them to pay towards. well, i think pay more towards. well, i think inai-s— pay more towards. well, i think inai-s prsiaiiy— pay more towards. well, i thinki that's probably-crumble that's probably going to crumble into that's probably going to crumble inis—ierns- that's probably going to crumble inis—ierns sil into insignificance in terms of the into insignificance in terms of tire asni— into insignificance in terms of the amount-they- into insignificance in terms of the amount they might the amount that they might not be the amount that they might not ise—iney- the amount that they might not ie—ineylisl be paying because they go to private— be paying because they go toj private—aise private health care. it's also important— private health care. it's also important private health important to note private health care tends to be for sort of easy, operations. anyone care tends to be for sort of easy goes operations. anyone care tends to be for sort of easy goes openitions. anyone care tends to be for sort of easy goes openitions. surgery who goes for open heart surgery is going to be using the nhs. so the expensive treatment the really expensive treatment you to get from you are always going to get from the to me folks at the very fair to me folks at home, tell does that home, you tell me, does that sound very you? anyone ? sound very fair to you? anyone? those pesky-people- sound very fair to you? anyone?| those pesky-people that those pesky wealthy people that are those pesky wealthy people that earning— those pesky wealthy people that are earning over— those pesky wealthy people that are earning over 80 grand dig inis— are earning over 80 grand dig inis ineir— are earning over 80 grand dig into their pockets— are earning over 80 grand dig into their pockets to fund the iansy— into their pockets to fund the iansy sis— into their pockets to fund the iansy in pay— into their pockets to fund the fancy 5% pay rises to the issisr. — fancy 5% pay rises to the issisr. ii— fancy 5% pay rises to the doctor. it won't- fancy 5% pay rises to the doctor. it won't stop there, by ine— doctor. it won't stop there, by ine nay,— doctor. it won't stop there, by the way, because— doctor. it won't stop there, by the way, because if you give the issisrs— the way, because if you give the issisrs esis— the way, because if you give the issisrs sin pay— the way, because if you give the doctors 35% pay restoration, vnai— doctors 35% pay restoration, what-think's- doctors 35% pay restoration, what think's going to what do you think's going to nappen—ine- what do you think's going toi nappen—ine year happen next year or the year after— happen next year or the year after-everyone- happen next year or the year after everyone looks around happen next year or the year afte goes, everyone looks around happen next year or the year afte goes, hangyone looks around happen next year or the year afte goes, hang on e looks around happen next year or the year afte goes, hang on alooks around happen next year or the year afte goes, hang on a second,)und and goes, hang on a second, insse— and goes, hang on a second, insse-psi— and goes, hang on a second, insse-psi is.- and goes, hang on a second, those got 55. this time those guys got 55. this time psinp— those guys got 55. this time psinp-sn- those guys got 55. this time we're going on strike we're going to go on strike tease— we're going to go on strike because-want- we're going to go on strike because want our pay back , because we want our pay back, iaiei— because we want our pay back, iaiei ani— because we want our pay back, dated and restored. you guys are ssninp— dated and restored. you guys are coming—creative. coming up with some creative ssiaiisns— coming up with some creative ssiaiisns as— coming up with some creative solutions as to— coming up with some creative solutions as to what you would do. solutions as to what you would is. ani— solutions as to what you would is. rni-psinp— solutions as to what you would is. rni-psinp is- solutions as to what you would do. and going to have some do. and i'm going to have some of do. and i'm going to have some si-respsnses— do. and i'm going to have some of-responsesljust- of your responses in just a ssapie— of your responses in just a couple-minutes. - of your responses in just a couple minutes. i want of your responses in just a- couplelminutes. .i want to couple of minutes. but i want to siisr— couple of minutes. but i want to siisr-ine— couple of minutes. but i want to stick-the theme— couple of minutes. but i want to stick-the theme for- couple of minutes. but i want to stick the theme for my next stick with the theme for my next ispis. — stick with the theme for my next ispis. ii— stick with the theme for my next ispis. ii yse— stick with the theme for my next topic. if you will— stick with the theme for my next

topic. if you will indulge me, tease— topic. if you will indulge me, sesame—,- topic. if you will indulge me,| because_, right, because civil servants, right, get— because civil servants, right, get inis— because civil servants, right, get inis iney— because civil servants, right, get this, they are apparently so siressei— get this, they are apparently so stressed that— get this, they are apparently so stressed that they— get this, they are apparently so stressed that they have needed to stressed that they have needed is take— stressed that they have needed is take sve— stressed that they have needed to take over 700,000 days of sisr— to take over 700,000 days of sisr ieave — to take over 700,000 days of sick leave just— to take over 700,000 days of sick leave just in— to take over 700,000 days of sick leave just in the last year.— sick leave just in the last year. reaiiy— sick leave just in the last year. really your thoughts? see you year. really your thoughts? see ysa .—

in two. i in two. hello,- i in two. . hello, guys i in two. - hello, guys . | in ave.- hello, guys . alex | in sve.— hello, guys . alex dean keeps | in ave.— hello, guys . alex dean keeps me hello, guys. alex dean keeps me ssnpany— hello, guys. alex dean keeps me ssnpany isnipni. — hello, guys. alex dean keeps me company tonight. the political ssnsaiiani— company tonight. the political consultant and— company tonight. the political consultant and michael walker ssniriiaiinp— consultant and michael walker contributing editor at novara iieiia— contributing editor at novara iieiia .— contributing editor at novara iieiia . vsa— contributing editor at novara media . you are— contributing editor at novara media . you are all very welcome. media. you are all very welcome. isnipni— media. you are all very welcome. isnipni vveve— media. you are all very welcome. tonight we've just— media. you are all very welcome. tonight we've just been debating ianisr— tonight we've just been debating innisr issisrs— tonight we've just been debating junior doctors and— tonight we've just been debating junior doctors and whether or nsi— junior doctors and whether or nsi iney— junior doctors and whether or not they should— junior doctors and whether or not they should get a whopping esis— not they should get a whopping esis pay— not they should get a whopping sin pay ise— not they should get a whopping 35% pay rise. lots— not they should get a whopping 35% pay rise. lots of you getting— 35% pay rise. lots of you getting in— 35% pay rise. lots of you getting in touch on this one, risa.— getting in touch on this one, riex. sne— getting in touch on this one, riex. sne si— getting in touch on this one, alex. one of my— getting in touch on this one, alex. one of my viewers says iisieninp— alex. one of my viewers says iisieninp is— alex. one of my viewers says listening to your— alex. one of my viewers says listening to your program, waste,— listening to your program, michelle, i— listening to your program, michelle, i can't help comparing the michelle, i can't help comparing ine ianisr— michelle, i can't help comparing the junior doctors— michelle, i can't help comparing the junior doctors strike to a pessn— the junior doctors strike to a persn vns— the junior doctors strike to a person who buys— the junior doctors strike to a person who buys a flat above a pub— person who buys a flat above a pat ani— person who buys a flat above a pup ani inen— person who buys a flat above a pub and then complains about the isnn— pub and then complains about the noise. john james— pub and then complains about the noise. john james sorry, says,

give— noise. john james sorry, says, pive inen— noise. john james sorry, says, give them facts— noise. john james sorry, says, give them facts 5,— noise. john james sorry, says, give them facts 5, but take the pasr— give them facts 5, but take the pasr sisr— give them facts 5, but take the past sisr pay— give them facts 5, but take the pack sick pay pension , etcetera, pack sick pay pension, etcetera, away— pack sick pay pension, etcetera, avay irsn — pack sick pay pension, etcetera, away from them _ pack sick pay pension, etcetera, away from them .— pack sick pay pension, etcetera, away from them . graham i think away from them. graham i think this away from them. graham i think inis is— away from them. graham i think inis is quite— away from them. graham i think this is quite interesting. sranan — this is quite interesting. graham says- this is quite interesting. graham says give them a one off payneni— graham says give them a one off payment is— graham says give them a one off payment is sve— graham says give them a one off payment to cover their outstand ing payment to cover their outstand inp university— payment to cover their outstand ing university debits , but they ing university debits, but they must— ing university debits, but they must ssnnii— ing university debits, but they must commit to— ing university debits, but they must commit to work for the nhs for must commit to work for the nhs isr rive— must commit to work for the nhs isr five years— must commit to work for the nhs for five years or— must commit to work for the nhs for five years or repay that nsney— for five years or repay that nsney is— for five years or repay that nsney is ine— for five years or repay that money to the government . carla money to the government. carla says— money to the government. carla says ves— money to the government. carla says yes i— money to the government. carla says yes, i absolutely agree vviin— says yes, i absolutely agree vviin inat— says yes, i absolutely agree vviin inai .— says yes, i absolutely agree with that . 5%_ says yes, i absolutely agree with that . 5% request for pay , with that. 5% request for pay, risnari— with that. 5% request for pay, risnari says— with that. 5% request for pay, richard says everybody is suffering— richard says everybody is suffering from _ richard says everybody is suffering from pay erosion due to suffering from pay erosion due is iniiaiisn— suffering from pay erosion due to inflation. it's— suffering from pay erosion due to inflation. it's not just the issisrs— to inflation. it's not just the issisrs ani— to inflation. it's not just the doctors and they— to inflation. it's not just the doctors and they are no more or iess— doctors and they are no more or iess inpsriani— doctors and they are no more or less important than any one eise— less important than any one eise. sive— less important than any one else. give them— less important than any one else. give them a decent pay avvai— else. give them a decent pay avvai says— else. give them a decent pay award, says stewart. but make it ssniiiisnai— award, says stewart. but make it conditional on— award, says stewart. but make it conditional on staying in the ris— conditional on staying in the ins .— conditional on staying in the ins . reier— conditional on staying in the nhs . peter says— conditional on staying in the nhs . peter says what happened to nhs. peter says what happened to the nhs. peter says what happened to tire nippssraiis— nhs. peter says what happened to the hippocratic earth? that's easy— the hippocratic earth? that's evasiiy ine— the hippocratic earth? that's exactly the point we were iairinp — exactly the point we were talking about— exactly the point we were talking about and this is an interesting— talking about and this is an interesting one— talking about and this is an interesting one as well. phil says— interesting one as well. phil says pssr— interesting one as well. phil says poor doctors. next they'll be ieiiinp— says poor doctors. next they'll be ieiiinp as— says poor doctors. next they'll be telling us they— says poor doctors. next they'll be telling us they have to use issi— be telling us they have to use issi ianrs— be telling us they have to use issi ianrs .— be telling us they have to use food banks . well,— be telling us they have to use food banks . well, i'll leave food banks. well, i'll leave inat— food banks. well, i'll leave inai vviin— food banks. well, i'll leave that with you _ food banks. well, i'll leave that with you to _ food banks. well, i'll leave that with you to ponder. food banks. well, i'll leave that with you to ponder . let's that with you to ponder. let's move we? whitehall move on, shall we? whitehall sivii— move on, shall we? whitehall civil servants— move on, shall we? whitehall civil servants-get- move on, shall we? whitehall civil servants get this more civil servants to get this more inan— civil servants to get this more

inan meso— civil servants to get this more than 770,000 days of sick leave iasi— than 770,000 days of sick leave iasi year— than 770,000 days of sick leave last year because— than 770,000 days of sick leave last year because they were siressei — last year because they were stressed and _ last year because they were stressed and had other mental neaiin— stressed and had other mental health problems.— stressed and had other mental health problems. i mean, this figure— health problems. i mean, this figure is— health problems. i mean, this iipnre is esis— health problems. i mean, this figure is 38% higher. alex ise—an— figure is 38% higher. alex de—man than— figure is 38% higher. alex de—man than it was last year. ani— de—man than it was last year. rni ine— de—man than it was last year. and the labour— de—man than it was last year. and the labour party- de—man than it was last year. and the labour party says- de—man than it was last year. and the labour party says that that differential demonstrates a mental health crisis at the heart of whitehall . well, that's heart of whitehall. well, that's one interpretation. there is another one. and if i think about the rates of stress in, say, our armed forces or the fire service, which i think with no offence to civil servants, unambiguously more stressful roles than the civil service , roles than the civil service, which are far lower than this, and certainly have seen no such increase, you may wonder at the increase, you may wonder at the increase in sickness and mental health coming at just the time people were being expected to come back to work after the work from home time during coronavirus. your fellow presenter jacob coronavirus. your fellow presenterjacob rees—mogg, coronavirus. your fellow presenter jacob rees—mogg, took an awful lot of stick for suggesting that civil servants were reluctant to put in a day's work for a day's pay. in the

post coronavirus environment . post coronavirus environment. take a picture of the empty gesture— take a picture of the empty pesiare si— take a picture of the empty gesture of an— take a picture of the empty gesture of an empty office . gesture of an empty office. i iare— gesture of an empty office. i iare say— gesture of an empty office. i dare say there— gesture of an empty office. i dare say there will- gesture of an empty office. i dare say there will be- gesture of an empty office. i dare say there will be many people looking at these statistics and saying, you may have had point. do you think have had a point. do you think it's have had a point. do you think ii-s-psinie— have had a point. do you think it's-point? michael? - have had a point. do you think it's-point? michael? i. it's got a point? michael? i parasite— it's got a point? michael? i struggle-becausel it's got a point? michael? ii struggle-because it struggle with this because it seems can't tell the seems like you can't tell on the news without there being some famous person it's really famous person saying it's really important mental important to take mental health seriously. prince seriously. so you see prince william zoom william having this sort of zoom conversation with someone saying we about we should all be open about mental now for me, it's mental health. now for me, it's good to be open about mental health. is health. more important is actually we give people the material good material capacity to have good mental for me, if mental health. now, for me, if lots people are taking days lots of people are taking days off of mental off because of mental health problems don't problems now, again, we don't know this is someone sort of know if this is someone sort of calling in on thursday and saying, bit today, so saying, i'm a bit down today, so i'm to come in or if i'm not going to come in or if this is people who are on long term sickness because they've been depression, been driven into a depression, which by the which lots of people are, by the way, rare at all. so way, it's not rare at all. so i think we're coming at this the wrong way around. i think we should this many should say, look, if this many people sick days people are taking sick days off because do we because of mental health, do we really there's been 38% really think there's been a 38% increase people's increase in sort of people's laziness? seems increase in sort of people's lazineiimplausible seems increase in sort of people's lazineiimplausible to seems increase in sort of people's lazineiimplausible to seerso to

pretty implausible to me. so to me, it seems much more likely that you've got people who are under much more undue stress than the past. now than they were in the past. now that have lot do with that might have a lot to do with the of living crisis. do that might have a lot to do with the thinkf living crisis. do that might have a lot to do with the think it.iving crisis. do that might have a lot to do with the think it might:risis. do that might have a lot to do with the think it might have do that might have a lot to do with the think it might have anything you think it might have anything to do with having a policy where you get six of full pay, you get six months of full pay, sick don't know sick pay? i don't know the precise terms precise that is labour terms that civil their that the civil service, their policy. so you were appointed policy. so if you were appointed prisr— policy. so if you were appointed prisr-si— policy. so if you were appointed prisr-si-zooe- policy. so if you were appointed prior-of-2004, youi prior to 28th of april 2004, you get prior to 28th of april 2004, you pea—six— prior to 28th of april 2004, you pet—six pay- prior to 28th of april 2004, you pet—six pay si- prior to 28th of april 2004, you pet—six pay si sixl get occupational six pay of six nsnins— get occupational six pay of six nsnins-ani- get occupational six pay of six months,-and then- get occupational six pay of six months, and then six months, full pay and then six nsnins— months, full pay and then six nsnins nati— months, full pay and then six months half pay— months, full pay and then six months half pay to a maximum months half pay up to a maximum of months half pay up to a maximum si—sisr— of 12 months sick pay in a sting— of 12 months sick pay in a rolling four— of 12 months sick pay in a rolling four year period, just it's rolling four year period, just is sti— rolling four year period, just is sii ispis— rolling four year period, just it's off topic but— rolling four year period, just it's off topic but relevant . it's off topic but relevant. van-ve— it's off topic but relevant. you've cited— it's off topic but relevant. you've cited a— it's off topic but relevant. you've cited a comparison with somebody who was working in 2004 for our discussion before the break about junior doctors and their comparison with their 2004. you said if you started vsrrinp— 2004. you said if you started working before _ $700” you said if you started working before 2000 and no. ron.— working before 2000 and no. zon- ss— working before 2000 and no. zon- ss ii— working before 2000 and no. 2014. so if you— working before 2000 and no. 2014. so if you were appointed prisr— 2014. so if you were appointed prisr is— 2014. so if you were appointed prisr is ron,— 2014. so if you were appointed prior to 2014, that's your psiisy— prior to 2014, that's your psiisy. ii— prior to 2014, that's your policy- if you— prior to 2014, that's your policy. if you were. yeah, if he was entitled— policy. if you were. yeah, if he was entitled after— policy. if you were. yeah, if he was entitled after that, during ysar— was entitled after that, during ysar iirsi— was entitled after that, during ysnr first year— was entitled after that, during your first year of— was entitled after that, during your first year of service, you get— your first year of service, you get a— your first year of service, you get a nsnin— your first year of service, you get a month full— your first year of service, you get a month full pay and a nsnin— get a month full pay and a month, half— get a month full pay and a month, half the— get a month full pay and a month, half the second year, two nsnins— month, half the second year, two nsnins init— month, half the second year, two nsnins inii pay,— month, half the second year, two months full pay, third year, inree— months full pay, third year, three months,— months full pay, third year, three months, pay so months full pay, third year,- three months,-pay-so on three months, full pay and so on ani— three months, full pay and so on anilisrin.— three months, full pay and so on and .forthipoint— three months, full pay and so on and .forthipoint-was. and so forth. point one i was going to make was, you don't

have to go back that long to remember that junior remember that our junior doctors were being boosted and was one of we out of of the reasons we opted out of the time directive when the working time directive when we of the european we were members of the european union. they then were working really i were a really hard and if i were a doctor indeed a civil doctor or indeed a civil servant, i wouldn't want to hark back of working back to that kind of working condition. say, i want condition. and say, i want my pay condition. and say, i want my pay be uplifted what it pay to be uplifted to what it was because they were was back then because they were working for pay working far more hours for pay than now. yeah, so than they are now. yeah, so i take depression— than they are now. yeah, so i take depression and- p“ piz; yeah, so i take depression and things sp“ piz; yeah, so i take depression and things like inat— take depression and things like inai—is- take depression and things like inai—is .- take depression and things like inai—is . rail that seriously. i really do. but in business— that seriously. i really do. but in business i— that seriously. i really do. but in business i also— that seriously. i really do. but in business i also had to manage sne si— in business i also had to manage someone. one of my— in business i also had to manage someone. one of my direct enpisyees— someone. one of my direct employees said— someone. one of my direct employees said that she had iepressisn— employees said that she had depression on— employees said that she had depression on and as a manager i isani— depression on and as a manager i isani ii— depression on and as a manager i isani ii reaiiy— depression on and as a manager i found it really challenging tease— found it really challenging because she— found it really challenging because she just wouldn't come inis— because she just wouldn't come inis vsrr— because she just wouldn't come inis vvsrr. insi— because she just wouldn't come into work. just just— because she just wouldn't come into work. just just wouldn't come in, wouldn't call. said inat— come in, wouldn't call. said inai sne— come in, wouldn't call. said that she wasn't— come in, wouldn't call. said that she wasn't coming in, just vsaiin-i— that she wasn't coming in, just vsaiin-i-rni- that she wasn't coming in, just. wouldn't-and-few wouldn't turn up. and then a few iays— wouldn't turn up. and then a few iays iaier— wouldn't turn up. and then a few days later-would— wouldn't turn up. and then a few days later would re—emerge days later she would re—emerge ani— days later she would re—emerge ani-sray.— days later she would re—emerge ani-sray. vean- days later she would re—emerge and-okay. yeah i- days later she would re—emerge and okay. yeah i feel and go, right, okay. yeah i feel reiter— and go, right, okay. yeah i feel better ns— and go, right, okay. yeah i feel better now. and— and go, right, okay. yeah i feel better now. and i— and go, right, okay. yeah i feel better now. and i really strappiei— better now. and i really struggled how you better now. and i really- struggled-how you manage struggled with how you manage that struggled with how you manage inai tease— struggled with how you manage that because you've got workloads,— that because you've got workloads, got workloads, you've got objectives, _ workloads, you've got objectives, got workloads, you've got- objectives,-got outcomes objectives, you've got outcomes ani— objectives, you've got outcomes ani aii— objectives, you've got outcomes ani aii ine — objectives, you've got outcomes and all the rest— objectives, you've got outcomes and all the rest of— objectives, you've got outcomes and all the rest of it. so it's rini— and all the rest of it. so it's rini-isn-i— and all the rest of it. so it's kind-don't know,- and all the rest of it. so it's kind don't know, as a kind of, i don't know, as a nanaerp— kind of, i don't know, as a manager or as a- kind of, i don't know, as a manager or as a leader of a team,— manager or as a leader of a team, etcetera— manager or as a leader of a team, etcetera ,— manager or as a leader of a team, etcetera , it's a very team, etcetera, it's a very irisry— team, etcetera, it's a very irisry ininp— team, etcetera, it's a very tricky thing to— team, etcetera, it's a very tricky thing to manage. and it's aiss—

tricky thing to manage. and it's aiss sn— tricky thing to manage. and it's aiss sn ine— tricky thing to manage. and it's also on the flip— tricky thing to manage. and it's also on the flip side , a very also on the flip side, a very irisry— also on the flip side, a very irisry-prsve- also on the flip side, a very tricky prove because tricky thing to prove because you— tricky thing to prove because you-90— tricky thing to prove because you-90 is— tricky thing to prove because you-90 is a— tricky thing to prove because you go to a doctor, fill in you can go to a doctor, fill in a questionnaire— you can go to a doctor, fill in a questionnaire how a questionnaire about how overwhelmed— a questionnaire about how overwhelmed and anxious you feel or overwhelmed and anxious you feel sr vvnaieven— overwhelmed and anxious you feel or whatever,-then_ overwhelmed and anxious you feel or whatever, then boom, or whatever, and then boom, inai-s—. - or whatever, and then boom,| inai-s—. vean. or whatever, and then boom,. that's_. yeah, i that's your sick note. yeah, i ii— that's your sick note. yeah, i ii is— that's your sick note. yeah, i mean, it is difficult to prove, but again, we can come but i think, again, we can come at from from the at this from from, from the other one, one, one other end. now, one, one, one way deal with is to way we can deal with this is to say you know, stiff say everyone, you know, stiff upper if you're feeling upper lip if you're feeling down, into work. upper lip if you're feeling down, now into work. upper lip if you're feeling down, now potentially'k. upper lip if you're feeling down, now potentially that upper lip if you're feeling down, bringv potentially that upper lip if you're feeling down, bring some ntially that upper lip if you're feeling down, bring some people :hat to would bring some people back to work. it might also have some downsides actually downsides because actually i think you know, think telling people, you know, don't to your don't pay attention to your mental needs probably mental health needs is probably not negative not without negative consequences. the other way we can is currently consequences. the other way we can country is currently consequences. the other way we can country deals; currently consequences. the other way we can country deals with'ently consequences. the other way we can country deals with mental our country deals with mental health appallingly. so health problems appallingly. so if you mean, i know that if you i mean, i know that you've talked about this before. i want to your i don't want to speak to your experiences, of mine experiences, but friends of mine who suffered from deep who have suffered from deep depression, which need depression, which i don't need proof deep proof that they are deep depressions . when they and depressions. when they try and get nhs, you get get help from the nhs, you get put on the longest possible waiting list to see any kind of counsellor. idea that we counsellor. so the idea that we are sort of giving people the support they need to feel well enough to go to work, i feel

like that would probably be the low hanging fruit should try low hanging fruit we should try and start telling and do before we start telling people can't have people that, oh, you can't have paid you if you're paid sick leave if you if you're coming down a depression. coming down with a depression. i don't country treats don't think this country treats mental health issues appallingly. ithink mental health issues appallingly. i think neither do |, appallingly. i think neither do i nsi— appallingly. i think neither do i nsi teasi— appallingly. i think neither do i, not least because- appallingly. i think neither do i, not least because it- “gear i think neither do i, not least because it turns sai— i, not least because it turns sat in— i, not least because it turns sat in ine— i, not least because it turns out in the civil— i, not least because it turns out in the civil service, what ysve— out in the civil service, what ysve psi— out in the civil service, what ysve psi is— out in the civil service, what you've got to do— out in the civil service, what you've got to do is say a few napis— you've got to do is say a few napis vvsris— you've got to do is say a few magic words-you- you've got to do is say a few magic words you can bunk off magic words and you can bunk off for magic words and you can bunk off isr-iine— magic words and you can bunk off rsr-tine viin— magic words and you can bunk off for-time with cost- magic words and you can bunk off for time with cost free. for some time with cost free. nai— for some time with cost free. nai-a— for some time with cost free. nai-a good- for some time with cost free. nai-a good way- for some time with cost free. but-a good way of. but that's not a good way of deaung but that's not a good way of dealing mental health. dealing with mental health. so a good of dealing with mental dealing with mental health. so a good is of dealing with mental dealing with mental health. so a good is youiealing with mental dealing with mental health. so a good is you haveig with mental dealing with mental health. so a good is you have access mental dealing with mental health. so a good is you have access toental health is you have access to counsellors space of counsellors in a short space of time, that's not the case time, right? that's not the case under the nhs. you to wait under the nhs. you have to wait a time. then you get a very long time. then you get about ten sessions, then you get kicked a kicked off. i think if we were a society that dealt properly with mental then you'd have mental health, then you'd have those waiting lists. being shorter. rigorously. those waiting lists. being s don't. rigorously. those waiting lists. being s don't. saying rigorously. those waiting lists. being s don't. saying ifjorously. those waiting lists. being s don't. saying if you isly. those waiting lists. being s don't. saying if you feel i don't think saying if you feel sick, a day off work. sick, have a day off work. that's that's that's not a society that's particularly about particularly serious about mental. a reasonable point. yeah.— mental. a reasonable point. ran-is— mental. a reasonable point. yeah. do think also for yeah. and i do think also for some mental health issues, you know, you can do know, the worst thing you can do is in bed. one of the best is stay in bed. one of the best things can do is get up, get things you can do is get up, get showered, get the door and showered, get out the door and busy your in busy and distract your mind in some anyway sure you some cases. anyway i'm sure you won't backwards coming won't be backwards in coming forwards telling you

forwards and telling me what you think. is think. gb views at gbnews.uk is how reach me. don't go how you can reach me. don't go anywhere. be back two anywhere. i'll be back in two minutes when to talk to anywhere. i'll be back in two min about hen to talk to anywhere. i'll be back in two min about something to talk to anywhere. i'll be back in two min about something thatilk to anywhere. i'll be back in two min about something that really you about something that really did me it was this. did concern me and it was this. hang let me see if i can get hang on. let me see if i can get this without falling off my chair. look, if you're listening, not watching, you don't i'm doing. don't know what i'm doing. i'm holding daily holding up the daily mail's headline, terror suspects headline, 19 terror suspects among channel arrivals . you among channel arrivals. you what? see you .

in two. coming in two.- jcoming up in two.- |coming up on in ave.— icoming up on dan in awe. — i coming up on dan wootton . coming up on dan wootton isnipni— . coming up on dan wootton isnipni nint— . coming up on dan wootton tonight night, in— coming up on dan wootton tonight night, in exclusive tonight night, in an exclusive interview,— tonight night, in an exclusive interview,-former- interview, the former chancellor, - interview, the former chancellor, kwasi kwarteng talks irass— chancellor, kwasi kwarteng talks irass ,— chancellor, kwasi kwarteng talks irass , ine— chancellor, kwasi kwarteng talks irass , ine sni— chancellor, kwasi kwarteng talks truss , the snp being caught truss, the snp and being caught up in— truss, the snp and being caught up in an— truss, the snp and being caught up in an anti — truss, the snp and being caught up in an anti isry— truss, the snp and being caught up in an anti tory video sting. rins— up in an anti tory video sting. rips as— up in an anti tory video sting. rips as ise— up in an anti tory video sting. plus, as joe biden— up in an anti tory video sting. plus, as joe biden arrives in rsrinern— plus, as joe biden arrives in northern ireland, former first minister— northern ireland, former first minister dame— northern ireland, former first minister dame arlene foster reassi— minister dame arlene foster reassi is— minister dame arlene foster reacts to the _ minister dame arlene foster reacts to the president muscling in sn— reacts to the president muscling in sn ur— reacts to the president muscling in on uk politics.— reacts to the president muscling in on uk politics. join de—man ripei— in on uk politics. join de—man ripei parape— in on uk politics. join de—man nigel farage angela levin and si— nigel farage angela levin and more of britain's— nigel farage angela levin and more of britain's top commentators as 9 to 11 pm. more of britain's top— commentators as 9 to 11 pm. on gb commentators as 9 to 11 pm. on as revs— commentators as 9 to 11 pm. on gb news britain's— commentators as 9 to 11 pm. on

gb news britain's news. channel hi gb news britain's news. channel ni inere. — gb news britain's news. channel ni inere. in— gb news britain's news. channel hi there. i'm michelle- gb news britain's news. channel hi there. i i hi there. i'm michelle dewberry. keeping you company until 7:00 tonight. alongside me, alex dean, the political consultant, and michael walker , contributing and michael walker, contributing editor novara media. arnold editor at novara media. arnold says , michelle, my nan is done says, michelle, my nan is done with you. she's not going to watch your programme any more. she says that comes that's the young adults, the children's mental health thing . she says mental health thing. she says that's good. but once you're an adult, it's shockingly bad to get help. so that's arnold's nan disagreeing with me when i said , actually, i didn't think the country was really that bad when it comes to taking care of mental health, mental health issues . rubbish, says mike. issues. rubbish, says mike. they're hardly ever going to work. these civil servants . work. these civil servants. well, someone else dawn neesom saying, is this just them? quiet quitting in a programme that is designed to bring down the tories? i was just talking then if you missed that last segment, it's all about the amount of

sick that civil servants sick days that civil servants have off. nigel says . we always have off. nigel says. we always email in as you ask , tell us email in as you ask, tell us what you think, but if our emails don't suit your narrative , michelle, you read our , michelle, you never read our comments, he says, for example, i've asked you frequently, what do you earn ? michelle? only then do you earn? michelle? only then can establish your criteria can we establish your criteria for doctors paid for saying that doctors are paid enough. i'll read any emails out , nigel, but what i earn is none of your business, not least because pay wages. because you don't pay my wages. i am not funded by the taxpayer ehhen i am not funded by the taxpayer either. so there you go. right let's pick up a story, shall we? that really did concern me . 19 that really did concern me. 19 suspected terrorists have arrived in britain via small boats crossing the channel these 19 guys have been linked with groups, including isis illegally . of course, they've crossed from north france. of course, you guessed it, they've put asylum claims in here and you probably guessed the next part as well. they can't be deported due to human rights laws. i don't want to take a moment to

reflect because 2015 is a very wise woman . raise this alarm. wise woman. raise this alarm. listen genuine refugees have got an imminent risk to their life. we need to do everything that we can to treat them with dignity , can to treat them with dignity, respect and make sure that those people , those families are safe, people, those families are safe, are completely support that. however, back in february, we were on this chair and were sitting on this chair and isis clearly said, we're isis very clearly said, we're going to send 500,000 isis soldiers to europe. we're going to send them in boats. we're going to get them over to italy. you're not going to know what's hit you. we're going to have all of soldiers. they're going hit you. we're going to have all of disguised they're going hit you. we're going to have all of disguised asey're going hit you. we're going to have all of disguised as refugeesg hit you. we're going to have all of disguised as refugees at to be disguised as refugees at the time, felt bit the time, we all felt a bit farfetched. fast farfetched. whatever fast forward to september, we have so many thousands of people. we do not know who they are. and one thing that concerns me is, yes, there's a couple of kids and yes , there's some women. but on the whole, are strapping young whole, these are strapping young men . don't who they are men. we don't know who they are and to be very, very and we need to be very, very careful and we need to be very, very careflletting into europe are we're letting into europe are

genuine. not people genuine. refugees are not people that want to cause us harm. because trust me, all of because trust me, if we all of a sudden find ourselves with hundreds of thousands of isis soldiers, taken in soldiers, is that we've taken in and shelter and warmth and and given shelter and warmth and love and all rest of it to love and all the rest of it to we're going to have huge we're going to have a huge problem ash is a problem on our hands. ash is a wise . she isn't she? that wise woman. she isn't she? that was back in 2015. and you was me back in 2015. and you might have noticed that was eamonn and isabella. yeah. now, now hear how life moves in mysterious ways. there are, of course, anyway, course, here. anyway, i highlight i got so much highlight that i got so much abuse and hassle for saying that back in 2015. i was called, of course, racist, xenophobic, you name . and fast forward. here name it. and fast forward. here we are now and we're in the exact situation that i was trying to highlight, which is you've got people suspected of terrorism this country that terrorism in this country that we know about, and we're struggling to be able to deport them. you were right then and you right now. thanks, you were right now. oh, thanks, alex. that up, alex. can we clip that up, please? haven't changed please? and you haven't changed a bit . hey, my please? and you haven't changed a bit. hey, my hair was great on there. was looking there. i was looking at it going, anyway, on. going, oh, anyway, carry on. i'm the difficulty that i'm part of the difficulty that our authorities— i'm part of the difficulty that our authorities face is

appareniiy— our authorities face is apparently that much of the naieriai— apparently that much of the material that— apparently that much of the material that means that these iniiviiaais— material that means that these individuals are— material that means that these individuals are suspected of iensrisn— individuals are suspected of terrorism cannot be used in ssari— terrorism cannot be used in court proceedings against them for immigration— court proceedings against them for immigration purposes. that islsay— for immigration purposes. that islsay inat— for immigration purposes. that is say that security is to say that our security servises— is to say that our security servises are— is to say that our security services are reluctant to very inviting— services are reluctant to very anviiiinp is— services are reluctant to very unwilling to adamantly against aiisvvinp— unwilling to adamantly against aiisvinp ine— unwilling to adamantly against allowing the use— unwilling to adamantly against allowing the use of surveillance naieriai— allowing the use of surveillance naieriai in— allowing the use of surveillance material in in— allowing the use of surveillance material in in those proceedings for material in in those proceedings isr tear— material in in those proceedings isr iear inat— material in in those proceedings for fear that it— material in in those proceedings for fear that it would reveal sources and methods and show vvnai— sources and methods and show vnai ine— sources and methods and show what the authorities know about iniiviiaais. — what the authorities know about individuals. but— what the authorities know about individuals. but isn't it ludicrous— individuals. but isn't it ludicrous ? - individuals. but isn't it ludicrous ? vice: individuals. but isn't it- ludicrous ? well, no point in ludicrous? well, no point in surveying them. i'm not sure it's ludicrous— surveying them. i'm not sure it's ludicrous given- “g i'm not sure it's ludicrous given that those iasrei— it's ludicrous given that those iasrei vviin— it's ludicrous given that those tasked with the— it's ludicrous given that those tasked with the job of ensuring our tasked with the job of ensuring sesariiy— tasked with the job of ensuring our security say— tasked with the job of ensuring our security say that that those ssris— our security say that that those ssris si— our security say that that those sorts of methods— our security say that that those sorts of methods would be in iespariy— sorts of methods would be in iespariy ,— sorts of methods would be in iespariy , pai— sorts of methods would be in jeopardy , but there must be a jeopardy, but there must be a niiiie— jeopardy, but there must be a middle ground— jeopardy, but there must be a middle ground here. and it seems to middle ground here. and it seems is me— middle ground here. and it seems to me we're talking— middle ground here. and it seems to me we're talking about 20 ii— to me we're talking about 20 cases, it seems— to me we're talking about 20 cases, it seems to— to me we're talking about 20 cases, it seems to me that we rnsv— cases, it seems to me that we rnsv si— cases, it seems to me that we rnsv si. rai— cases, it seems to me that we know of. but that's the point. nsv— know of. but that's the point. nsv is — know of. but that's the point. nsv is yse— know of. but that's the point. how do you deal— know of. but that's the point. how do you deal with the ones you— how do you deal with the ones ysa rnsvv— how do you deal with the ones ysn rnsv si— how do you deal with the ones ysn rnsvv si s— how do you deal with the ones you know of ? because at the you know of? because at the rnsrneni— you know of? because at the moment those— you know of? because at the moment those-in- you know of? because at the moment those in those moment those are in those individuals— moment those are in those individuals _the- moment those are in those individuals the country individuals are in the country iire—seereri individuals are in the country. like—seeker or like any other asylum seeker or or like any other asylum seeker or sr-vvsaii— like any other asylum seeker or sr-vsaii ie- like any other asylum seeker or or would be refugee. to or would be would be refugee. to my nini— or would be would be refugee. to my rnini .— or would be would be refugee. to my rnini . vsa— or would be would be refugee. to my mind . you should take those my mind. you should take those iniiviiaais— my mind. you should take those individuals _thej individuals and put them to the top individuals and put them to the asp-ist— individuals and put them to the tsp-iisi ani— individuals and put them to the top list and means that top of the list and means that ineir— top of the list and means that inst—nai- top of the list and means that ineir—iai sn| their case gets heard. but on

ine— their case gets heard. but on ins-merits- their case gets heard. but on the-merits of- their case gets heard. but on the-merits of an- their case gets heard. but on the merits of an asylum the normal merits of an asylum orliefugee_ the normal merits of an asylum case or refugee case, without case or a refugee case, without tease— case or a refugee case, without because-course— case or a refugee case, without because course they say they because of course they say they san-i—ierrsr- can't use this alleged terror ssnnesisni— can't use this alleged terror connection material in court. so iney— connection material in court. so iney insi— connection material in court. so iney inst gei— connection material in court. so they just get heard— connection material in court. so they just get heard as normal. rai— they just get heard as normal. int i— they just get heard as normal. rai i vani— they just get heard as normal. int i want is— they just get heard as normal. but i want to make a broader psini— but i want to make a broader point, because— but i want to make a broader point, because the reason this nappens— point, because the reason this nappens in— point, because the reason this nappens in ine— point, because the reason this happens in the end is that we take— happens in the end is that we iare-isnp— happens in the end is that we take-longlprocess- happens in the end is that we take long process people take too long to process people per-sinpiy— take too long to process people per-sinpiy iare- take too long to process people per simply take far too per se. we simply take far too isnp— per se. we simply take far too isnplprssess— per se. we simply take far too long process asylum cases and long to process asylum cases and refugee— long to process asylum cases and refugee — long to process asylum cases and refugee .ii— long to process asylum cases and refugee cases. .if we - long to process asylum cases and refugee cases. if we turn refugee cases. and if we turn ininps— refugee cases. and if we turn things around— refugee cases. and if we turn things around much more quickly, we things around much more quickly, vve—isin— things around much more quickly, vve—isin siies- things around much more quickly, we_both sides. we. we would please both sides. we vsaii— we would please both sides. we vsaii piease— we would please both sides. we would please the— we would please both sides. we would please the liberals who vani— would please the liberals who want-stains- would please the liberals who want-claims to- would please the liberals who want-claims to be- want asylum claims to be praniei— want asylum claims to be granted, claims to granted, refugee claims to be praniei— granted, refugee claims to be praniei ,— granted, refugee claims to be praniei , ani— granted, refugee claims to be granted , and we— granted, refugee claims to be granted , and we pleased at granted, and we were pleased at the granted, and we were pleased at ine rsiasi— granted, and we were pleased at the robust conservative side who say-vani— the robust conservative side who say-vaniliepsri- the robust conservative side who say want deport people say we want to deport people rnsee-vv— say we want to deport people more-we should- say we want to deport people more we should hire more quickly. we should hire a targe— more quickly. we should hire a tape parsn— more quickly. we should hire a large batch of— more quickly. we should hire a large batch of individuals or reaiissaie— large batch of individuals or reallocate resources get reallocate resources to get insign— reallocate resources to get through backlog . and just through the backlog. and just in sase|naven-i— through the backlog. and just in case haven't offended everyone case i haven't offended everyone ins-sass— case i haven't offended everyone inssan-e si— case i haven't offended everyone in-course of this— case i haven't offended everyone in course of this short in the course of this short psini— in the course of this short pain, i— in the course of this short point, i would— in the course of this short point, i would allow individuals in insse— point, i would allow individuals in these circumstances to work vvniisi— in these circumstances to work vniisi iney-re — in these circumstances to work whilst they're waiting for their sassrnei ss— whilst they're waiting for their outcome. so-so- whilst they're waiting for their outcome. so so clear, outcome. so just so i'm clear, iney-re— outcome. so just so i'm clear, iney-re-siiiina— outcome. so just so i'm clear, they're-sitting at- outcome. so just so i'm clear, they're sitting at our they're just sitting at our epnse— they're just sitting at ouri expense—being they're just sitting at our- expense_being able they're just sitting at our- ex worki_being able they're just sitting at our- ex work and _being able they're just sitting at our ex work and pay being able they're just sitting at our ex work and pay ibyig able they're just sitting at our ex work and pay iby the ble they're just sitting at our ex work and pay iby the way, to work and pay tax. by the way, if to work and pay tax. by the way, it iney— to work and pay tax. by the way, it iney — to work and pay tax. by the way, if they were able— to work and pay tax. by the way, if they were able do that. if they were able to do that. just— if they were able to do that. past-snar— if they were able to do that. iasi-siear. - if they were able to do that. just-clear. so- if they were able to do that. just-clear. so you. just so i'm clear. so you wouldn't have a special say. so you want these people be you want these people to be treated same everyone

treated the same as everyone else of the else within the confines of the asylum system. you wouldn't have else within the confines of the arspecialystem. you wouldn't have else within the confines of the arspecial criteria’ou wouldn't have else within the confines of the arspecial criteria for wouldn't have else within the confines of the arspecial criteria for rate. dn't have else within the confines of the arspecial criteria for rate. you have a special criteria for rate. you you are a suspected terrorist or you're a member terrorist you're a member of a terrorist organisation. there's special organisation. there's a special criteria to you out criteria that applies to you out no because in the no, because i believe in the rule law. and if the state rule of law. and if the state isn-i— rule of law. and if the state isn-i viiiinp— rule of law. and if the state isn't willing-able- rule of law. and if the state isn't willing . able to - and if the state isn't willing able to produce isn't willing or able to produce any— isn't willing or able to produce any eviiense— isn't willing or able to produce any evidence to— isn't willing or able to produce any evidence to that assertion, i-n — any evidence to that assertion, i-n .aiisvvinp— any evidence to that assertion, i'm-allowing-tol i'm not allowing the state to sinpiy— i'm not allowing the state to simply and simply say otherwise. michel and insse—are— simply say otherwise. michel and insse—are in- simply say otherwise. michel and those—are in place- those protections are in place for those protections are in place rsr-as— those protections are in place for-us, because- those protections are in place for us, because you for all of us, because if you isn-i— for all of us, because if you isn-i-ap— for all of us, because if you isn-i-ap rsr— for all of us, because if you don't-up for the- don't stand up for the individual— don't stand up for the individual the case individual against whom the case issrs— individual against whom the case issrs nai,— individual against whom the case issrs iai, in— individual against whom the case looks bad, in the— individual against whom the case looks bad, in the end, the looks bad, in the end, when the state—michellel state comes and says michelle pewbe..y,_ state comes and says michelle dewberry, terrorist, dewberry, you are a terrorist, ani— dewberry, you are a terrorist, ani-is— dewberry, you are a terrorist, ani-is aii— dewberry, you are a terrorist, and-is all that's- dewberry, you are a terrorist, and is all that's required and that is all that's required to and that is all that's required is—irsn - and that is all that's required. to _from .kingdom and that is all that's required- to _from .kingdom , to baniin you from the kingdom, you to banish you from the kingdom, ysa-ns— to banish you from the kingdom, ysa-ns nann- to banish you from the kingdom, you-no rights as- to banish you from the kingdom, you no rights as well. you will have no rights as well. i you will have no rights as well. i iisaaree— you will have no rights as well. i disagree-your— you will have no rights as well. i disagree-you, but- you will have no rights as well. i disagree-you, but i'm- i disagree with you, but i'm conscious. want to bring conscious. i want to bring michael i'll come back. michael in, so i'll come back. michael, i michael, your thoughts? well, i actually a lot actually agree with what a lot of alex has said there. i of what alex has said there. i mean, i do think that i mean, i do think that they snsaii— mean, i do think that they snsaii ie— mean, i do think that they should be speeding asylum should be speeding up the asylum stains.— should be speeding up the asylum stains—a- should be speeding up the asylum claims._a halt.- claims. this ground to a halt. i ininr— claims. this ground to a halt. i ininr-nsi— claims. this ground to a halt. i ininr-nsi ss— claims. this ground to a halt. i think-not so much- claims. this ground to a halt. i think not so much because think that's not so much because of think that's not so much because sressarsesi—l of the allocation of resources, nai—ini but because the resources in isiai— but because the resources in total-fallen— but because the resources in total-fallen since- but because the resources in total fallen since 2010. so total have fallen since 2010. so i total have fallen since 2010. so i-inis— total have fallen since 2010. so i-inis is— total have fallen since 2010. so i-inis is a— total have fallen since 2010. so i this is a government i think this is a government naie— i think this is a government naie-vvnere— i think this is a government made where have i think this is a government- made _where-have lots made crisis where you have lots of made crisis where you have lots si—are— made crisis where you have lots si—are waiting- made crisis where you have lots of_are waiting in. of people who are waiting in nsieis— of people who are waiting in nsieis isr— of people who are waiting in hotels for two— of people who are waiting in hotels for two years before they get hotels for two years before they pea—vani- get a decision made. i want to iisapree— get a decision made. i want to iisapree-in- get a decision made. i want to disagree-in 2015,- disagree with you. in 2015, insapn— disagree with you. in 2015, though,-think. disagree with you. in 2015,- though,-think watching though, because i think watching

that though, because i think watching inai-iasn— though, because i think watching that-back, the— though, because i think watching that back, the future, you that clip back, the future, you is — that clip back, the future, you is ie — that clip back, the future, you seem to be sort— that clip back, the future, you seem to be sort of suggesting vvasni— seem to be sort of suggesting wasn't one where— seem to be sort of suggesting wasn't one where we might see a pay— wasn't one where we might see a any iiaii— wasn't one where we might see a daily mail headline— wasn't one where we might see a daily mail headline where there are daily mail headline where there i9— daily mail headline where there are 19 potential— daily mail headline where there are 19 potential terrorist saspesis— are 19 potential terrorist suspects who've come to the ssaniry. — suspects who've come to the ssanirylvas— suspects who've come to the country. .was that- suspects who've come to the country. was that you would country. it was that you would nave— country. it was that you would have _chaotic- country. it was that you would have chaotic situation have a fairly chaotic situation vnere— have a fairly chaotic situation where _terroristl where you're having terrorist aiiasrs— where you're having terrorist attacks-time. - attacks all the time. and nriiain— attacks all the time. and britain—in- attacks all the time. and britain—in many britain didn't take in that many pespie— britain didn't take in that many pespie-inai— britain didn't take in that many people that migration people during that migration snsis— people during that migration snsis-an— people during that migration crisis. an enormous crisis. it was an enormous nipraiisn— crisis. it was an enormous migration because of the migration crisis because of the syrian— migration crisis because of the syrian-vvar— migration crisis because of the syrian-vvar-ai- migration crisis because of the syrian-war-at its. syrian civil war being at its nsisan.— syrian civil war being at its neipni. r— syrian civil war being at its height. a-who- syrian civil war being at its height. a who did was height. a country who did was sernany— height. a country who did was sernany .— height. a country who did was germany . germany took in germany. now germany took in sver-syrian- germany. now germany took in over syrian refugees , over a million syrian refugees, very— over a million syrian refugees, vey—iniepraieil over a million syrian refugees, very—integrated it. very successfully integrated it. for very successfully integrated it. isr a— very successfully integrated it. isr a rnsrneni— very successfully integrated it. for a moment it— very successfully integrated it. for a moment it seemed like it psinp— for a moment it seemed like it psinp is— for a moment it seemed like it was going to cost— for a moment it seemed like it was going to cost angela merkel her career because _ was going to cost angela merkel her career because there was sppssiiisn— her career because there was some opposition to it in the end:— some opposition to it in the enileniei— some opposition to it in the end, ended resigning end, she ended up resigning a very,— end, she ended up resigning a very,_chancellor.| very, very popular chancellor. ani— very, very popular chancellor. rni—pespiei and that was because people ressanisei— and that was because people recognised, actually it recognised, oh, actually it vasni— recognised, oh, actually it vvasni ine— recognised, oh, actually it wasn't the end - recognised, oh, actually it wasn't the end of the world. inn— wasn't the end of the world. inn-vas- wasn't the end of the world. this _waslgood. this probably was a good compassionate policy. there compassionate policy. and there has compassionate policy. and there nas-ine— compassionate policy. and there nas-ine ripni— compassionate policy. and there has the right policy mix has been the right policy mix sarrsaniinp— surrounding it to make it work. ani— surrounding it to make it work. rni-vny— surrounding it to make it work. rni-vvny i— surrounding it to make it work. and-why i think- surrounding it to make it work. and why i think when and this is why i think when pespie— and this is why i think when pespie in— and this is why i think when pespie in sa— and this is why i think when people in our country say, oh,| we've got 20,000 people have ssssei— we've got 20,000 people have srssseiae—- we've got 20,000 people have crossed _ are we . we've got 20,000 people have. crossed—are we got crossed the channel, are we got 20 crossed the channel, are we got zo-saspesis— crossed the channel, are we got 20 suspects, therefore , 20 terror suspects, therefore, or 20 terror suspects, therefore, sr psinp— 20 terror suspects, therefore, or we're going to— 20 terror suspects, therefore, or we're going to have to ssnpieieiy— or we're going to have to. ssnpieieiy—un completely overturn the un reiapee— completely overturn the un refugee convention it refugee convention from 1951. it comes across to _ refugee convention from 1951. it comes across to me— refugee convention from 1951. it comes across to me as a little bit comes across to me as a little iii paineiis. — comes across to me as a little bit pathetic. you—

comes across to me as a little bit pathetic. you know, we have a ssaniry— bit pathetic. you know, we have a ssaniry, a— bit pathetic. you know, we have a country, a neighbouring ssaniry—isl a country, a neighbouring. country,_to our country, very similar to our syn—inerei country, very similar to our. snn—rnsre is own, who said, look, there is a nananiiarian— own, who said, look, there is a humanitarian emergency, we are going— humanitarian emergency, we are psinplpai— humanitarian emergency, we are psinplpai-vviis— humanitarian emergency, we are going put wits together, going to put our wits together, were-is— going to put our wits together, we're-to amass- going to put our wits together, we're to amass some we're going to amass some resources and— we're going to amass some resources and what we're going to-successfully- resources and what we're going to successfully integrate to do is successfully integrate a-syrian— to do is successfully integrate a syrian refugees, a million syrian refugees, a very— a million syrian refugees, a very compassionate policy which vvsrrei—isr- very compassionate policy which worked _for somei worked in this country for some pespie— worked in this country for some reason, people in— worked in this country for some reason, people in their tens of insasanis— reason, people in their tens of thousands arrive— reason, people in their tens of thousands arrive here and saiieniy— thousands arrive here and saiieniy vve— thousands arrive here and suddenly we think, oh, we've got to suddenly we think, oh, we've got is ssnpieieiy— suddenly we think, oh, we've got to completely transform refugee law to completely transform refugee iav in— to completely transform refugee law in germany. _ to completely transform refugee law in germany. liza to completely transform refugee law in germany. 72» law in germany. do you think my point was pathetic? just so i'm clear, i think britain's policy towards refugees and the sort of moral panic we're having over a few tens of thousands of people arriving here compared to what other countries have managed to do successfully is pathetic. thatis do successfully is pathetic. that is the most metropolitan ieii— that is the most metropolitan ieii wing— that is the most metropolitan left wing thing— that is the most metropolitan left wing thing you've said all nipni. —ysa- left wing thing you've said all night. _you were. night. because if you were iivinp— night. because if you were iivinp-sr- night. because if you were- living-or somewhere living in boston or somewhere snelinese— living in boston or somewhere one-these places- living in boston or somewhere one these places that indeed one of these places that indeed if one of these places that indeed ii-iivinp— one of these places that indeed ii-iivinplsne- one of these places that indeed if-livinglone of- one of these places that indeed if-livinglone of the. if you're living in one of the ssasiai— if you're living in one of the coastal-where- if you're living in one of the. coastal-where-to coastal towns where it used to be,— coastal towns where it used to be, inat— coastal towns where it used to be, inai-vere— coastal towns where it used to be, that were faded be, that there were faded visisrian — be, that there were faded victorian _with- be, that there were faded victorian with not be, that there were faded- victorian _with not much victorian hotels with not much ssi — victorian hotels with not much custom which _ victorian hotels with not much custom which are— victorian hotels with not much custom which are now full of pespie— custom which are now full of pespie vvs-vne— custom which are now full of people who've been housed there for people who've been housed there isr sse— people who've been housed there isr -sey— people who've been housed there for some-you might- people who've been housed there for some you might take for some months, you might take a—perspesiive. - a very different perspective. ani— a very different perspective. rni-is— a very different perspective. and-is precisely. a very different perspective. and is precisely the and the point is precisely the

same. different— and the point is precisely the same. different perspective is taken— same. different perspective is taken . germany _ same. different perspective is taken germany where that taken in germany where that irean — taken in germany where that irean si— taken in germany where that dream of social— taken in germany where that dream of social cohesion you've tast— dream of social cohesion you've iasi ysve— dream of social cohesion you've iasi ysve tast— dream of social cohesion you've just you've just asserted is the case was far from _ just you've just asserted is the case was far from reality. you put— case was far from reality. you pai nevi— case was far from reality. you pai nevi is— case was far from reality. you pai nevi is a— case was far from reality. you put next to a small german town, you put next to a small german town, ysa pai— put next to a small german town, ysa pai ansiner— put next to a small german town, you put another small town of reiapees— you put another small town of reiapees. rs,— you put another small town of refugees. no, that's right. visit— refugees. no, that's right. war, inat— refugees. no, that's right. well, that is— refugees. no, that's right. well, that is point. well, that is the point. i'm going— well, that is the point. i'm gains-tans— well, that is the point. i'm asinaliare a— well, that is the point. i'm going-take a break.- well, that is the point. i'm going take a break. no, going to take a break. oh, no, no, no. you absolutely going no, no. you are absolutely going to opportunity to to have an opportunity to respond, were we not. and i'm going as well. worry going to respond as well. worry not don't go anywhere. i'll see you .

in two. hi there. i'm michelle dewberry keeping company right through till 7:00 tonight. alongside me, alex dean is the political consultant and michael walker is a contributing editor at novara media . i am supposed to be media. i am supposed to be moving on talking about the dalai and the weirdness, dalai lama and the weirdness, though, when it comes to tongue sucking it was odd, sucking or whatever. it was odd, but before i do that, i do just want to return, may, to the want to return, if i may, to the conversation just

conversation that we were just having these nine teen having about these nine teen suspected terrorists having crossed the channel. michael all basically saying, you know, really, i was referring to me in 2015 saying that isis had promised to send all these people over. you were saying it's a bit pathetic, really, everyone getting arms at everyone getting up in arms at all all that all all this and all that and all the you to respond the other. you wanted to respond to point? yes. so the to alex's point? yes. so the espse i— to alex's point? yes. so the response i wanted- to alex's point? yes. so the response i wanted to- grin “7 yes. so the response i wanted to make is i isn-i— response i wanted to make is i isn-i ininr— response i wanted to make is i don't think concern about don't think any concern about niaraiisn— migration policy is pathetic. ani— migration policy is pathetic. andicertainly_ migration policy is pathetic. and certainly don't think it's and i certainly don't think it's panienis— and i certainly don't think it's paiieiis—a- pathetic. if you live in a seasiie— pathetic. if you live in a seaside town _ pathetic. if you live in a seaside town where the seaside town where all the nsieis—ap- seaside town where all the nsieis—ap iyl seaside town where all the hotels—up by home hotels are booked up by the home siiise— hotels are booked up by the home siiise-asyian — hotels are booked up by the home office asylum seekers office to house asylum seekers is—ininr— office to house asylum seekers is_think that's- is pathetic. i think that's a tennis— is pathetic. i think that's a terrible policy— is pathetic. i think that's a terrible policy which has caused iiiiisaiiy— terrible policy which has caused difficulty-towns- difficulty for poorer towns espesiaiiy— difficulty for poorer towns espesiaiiy. i— difficulty for poorer towns especially. i think concentrate being— especially. i think concentrate ieinp asyian— especially. i think concentrate being asylum seekers often in vaineraiie— being asylum seekers often in vulnerable situations in poor snai— vulnerable situations in poor snaii isvns— vulnerable situations in poor small towns in— vulnerable situations in poor small towns in britain is a tennis— small towns in britain is a terrible policy— small towns in britain is a terrible policy .— small towns in britain is a terrible policy . but that to me terrible policy. but that to me is a— terrible policy. but that to me is a prsiasi— terrible policy. but that to me is a product of— terrible policy. but that to me is a product of government iaiiare. — is a product of government iaiiare. its— is a product of government failure. it's not— is a product of government failure. it's not a product of ine— failure. it's not a product of nine narneri— failure. it's not a product of the number of— failure. it's not a product of the number of refugees that are ssninp— the number of refugees that are ssninp nere— the number of refugees that are coming here because proportionally to the rest of iarspe— proportionally to the rest of iarspe, ani— proportionally to the rest of europe, and especially if we issr— europe, and especially if we look-countries— europe, and especially if we look countries as look to countries such as ieiansn— look to countries such as lebanon in lebanon or many countries in ririsa— lebanon or many countries in airisa ,— lebanon or many countries in africa ,-amount- lebanon or many countries in africa , amount refugees africa, the amount of refugees were—very- africa, the amount of refugees vereve—ry ,- africa, the amount of refugees. vereve—ry , very we're dealing with is very, very snaii.— we're dealing with is very, very snaii-ine— we're dealing with is very, very small.-the fact— we're dealing with is very, very small. the fact that as

small. and the fact that we as a sssieiy— small. and the fact that we as a sssieiy nave— small. and the fact that we as a society have been— small. and the fact that we as a society have been deal society have been unable to deal witn— society have been unable to deal vviin inat— society have been unable to deal vviin inai .— society have been unable to deal with that . that's— society have been unable to deal with that . that's what i think with that. that's what i think of with that. that's what i think si sa— with that. that's what i think si ssaniry— with that. that's what i think of our country compared some of our country compared to some of our country compared to some si—vveii,— of our country compared to some of_well, michael- of the. no. well, michael expresses-very. expresses that point very reassnaiiy— expresses that point very reasonably some reasonably in some of the sniies— reasonably in some of the countries you're talking about a far snaiier— countries you're talking about a far smaller than— countries you're talking about a far smaller than us and have nave— far smaller than us and have have more asylum seekers and reiapees— refugees. so that is the case. ine— the difference, not germany. ins-neve- the difference, not germany. the _we've written i the difference, not germany. i the _we've written is the point that we've written is before britain before the break, britain is a generous welcoming country. generous and welcoming country. the is if you say the trouble is that if you say inat— the trouble is that if you say that overwhelmingly young that people overwhelmingly young men,— that people overwhelmingly young men-prima— that people overwhelmingly young men,-prima facie_ that people overwhelmingly young men, prima facie legitimate men, are prima facie legitimate asyian— men, are prima facie legitimate asyian seeerrs— men, are prima facie legitimate asylum seekers or— men, are prima facie legitimate asylum seekers or refugees when iney— asylum seekers or refugees when iney se— asylum seekers or refugees when iney irsn — asylum seekers or refugees when they come from france , that they come from france, that penis— they come from france, that bends reality— they come from france, that bends reality and it bends logic or bends reality and it bends logic sr any— bends reality and it bends logic sr any rini— bends reality and it bends logic sr any rini si— bends reality and it bends logic or any kind of credulity beyond the or any kind of credulity beyond in pan— or any kind of credulity beyond ine psini ai— or any kind of credulity beyond the point at which britain, nriiisn— the point at which britain, british people _ the point at which britain, british people are going to assepi— british people are going to assepi ii.— british people are going to accept it. and— british people are going to accept it. and in the end, vneiner— accept it. and in the end, whether you're- accept it. and in the end, whether you're in a town which nas— whether you're in a town which nas psi— whether you're in a town which nas psi asyian— whether you're in a town which has got asylum seekers in a nsiei— has got asylum seekers in a hotel-beside- has got asylum seekers in a hotel-beside the. hotel or not, is beside the psini— hotel or not, is beside the psini-ine- hotel or not, is beside the point, the problem. point, that's the problem. vse— point, that's the problem. vse nsi— point, that's the problem. you're not going to get past pespie— you're not going to get past. pespie—iney-re people who who think they're trying — people who who think they're. trying—in trying to defend the system. in the trying to defend the system. in ins—in- trying to defend the system. in ins—in ine- trying to defend the system. in ins—in ine eye| the end, torpedo it in the eye of the end, torpedo it in the eye si nssi— the end, torpedo it in the eye of most reasonable people who say,— of most reasonable people who says—bet- of most reasonable people who say—ies i-nl say, i'm not going to bet, i'm nsi— say, i'm not going to bet, i'm nsi psinp— say, i'm not going to bet, i'm nsi psinp is— say, i'm not going to bet, i'm not going to pretend anymore inat— not going to pretend anymore inai—a— not going to pretend anymore that a legitimate that someone's a legitimate asyian— that someone's a legitimate asylum _they've - that someone's a legitimate asylum they've fled asylum seeker if they've fled persesaiisn— persecution in france. that's a assi— persecution in france. that's a sssi-inni- persecution in france. that's a good-isn't n,- good point that isn't it, michael i don't actually think that good point because if that is a good point because if we its we take your logic to its logical conclusion , then what

logical conclusion, then what we have all refugees have to say is all refugees should be housed in the country closest to where the conflict is going think. going on right now. i think. i think i think— going on right now. i think. i think i think the— gift “g g“ ithink. i think i think the concept we snsaii— think i think the concept we should have— think i think the concept we should have is— think i think the concept we should have is one of a fair snare— should have is one of a fair snare nint— should have is one of a fair snare ripni .— should have is one of a fair share right . and- should have is one of a fair share right . and people can't share right. and people can't apply— share right. and people can't appiy—rriiainl apply for asylum in britain viinsai— apply for asylum in britain without britain. apply for asylum in britain. without-britain. if without coming to britain. if yes— without coming to britain. if yes ,— without coming to britain. if yes , ysa— without coming to britain. if yes , ysa ssaii— without coming to britain. if yes , you could if there was some yes, you could if there was some ssn— yes, you could if there was some ssrilsenirai— yes, you could if there was some sort central european asylum sort of central european asylum sysien — sort of central european asylumi sysien _ysa system where you apply and you get-somewhere,- system where you apply and you get somewhere, fine, get allocated somewhere, fine, isn-i—iii don't cross the channel. but if we don't cross the channel. but if ve-sysien— don't cross the channel. but if we system whereby the we have a system whereby the sniy— we have a system whereby the only—apply- only way you can apply for asyian— only way you can apply for asylum _often. only way you can apply for. asylum _often that asylum in britain, often that pespie— asylum in britain, often that pespie nave— asylum in britain, often that people have family connections, inen— people have family connections, rnsn—is- people have family connections,| inen—is-pespie then you are going to get people srsssinp—isrl crossing the channel. and for sne—rnsre spen| me, establishing more open rses— me, establishing more open ises is— me, establishing more open routes is completely reasonable psini. — point. but people move between desperation and preference all the someone wanting to the time. someone wanting to come they've got come here because they've got family nothing to do family here, it's nothing to do with being desperate. they want a life and a better way of life and i understand many people understand that many people would, but it's nothing to do with status. there are with asylum status. so there are lots who will have lots of people who will have left country. they wanted to left the country. they wanted to live left the country. they wanted to iive in— left the country. they wanted to live in because— left the country. they wanted to live in because there— at.aia. they wanted to live in because there was a sivii— live in because there was a sivii — live in because there was a civil war. imagine this civil war. we can imagine this ourselves. imagine a civil war irsre— ourselves. imagine a civil war inns-nee.— ourselves. imagine a civil war broke-here.-would- ourselves. imagine a civil war broke here. would leave broke out here. we would leave the broke out here. we would leave ins-vinai— broke out here. we would leave. the _what-mean? the country. what do you mean? like albania? well, albania is a ssnevnai— like albania? well, albania is a somewhat different— like albania? well, albania is a somewhat different i— p7 well, albania is a somewhat different i mean, i ininr— somewhat different i mean, i ininr ii— somewhat different i mean, i think it seems— somewhat different i mean, i think it seems lots, much think it seems like lots, much rever— think it seems like lots, much fewer-are coming. fewer albanians are coming across-because-

fewer albanians are coming- across-because-signed across now because they signed anis— across now because they signed inn-siti— across now because they signed this-still the - across now because they signed this-still the case- this deal. it's still the case inat— this deal. it's still the case inai—iisiiyl that the majority motty of pespie— that the majority motty of. people—channel that the majority motty of- people_channel are people crossing the channel are irsn—iianyl from afghanistan, iraq, many sniies— countries where we know it's very—nr- countries where we know it'si very—rsr nany very difficult to live for many pespie.— very difficult to live for many pespie-rnsvv- very difficult to live for many people. know there are people. and we know there are nanan— people. and we know there are human-abuses- people. and we know there are| human-abuses-on, human rights abuses going on, vnisn—pespiesl which is why lots of peoples asyian— which is why lots of peoples asylum - succeed. - which is why lots of peoples asylum succeed. right asylum claims succeed. right inn— asylum claims succeed. right inis—ssninai this isn't just people coming nere— this isn't just people coming nere-nsiiiay. - this isn't just people coming here holiday. and you here for a holiday. and if you nave— here for a holiday. and if you nave-sivii— here for a holiday. and if you have _civil-or- here for a holiday. and if you. have _civil-or you've have fled a civil war or you've iiei—ininr- have fled a civil war or you've fled _think you. fled persecution, i think you nave—is- fled persecution, i think you nave—is say.- fled persecution, i think you have—to say, i'ml have every right to say, i'm going— have every right to say, i'm going is— have every right to say, i'm going is i— have every right to say, i'm going to i-right- have every right to say, i'm going to i right to going to i have a right to asyian— going to i have a right to asylum. look,— going to i have a right to asylum. look, i'm a legitimate reiaaee— asylum. look, i'm a legitimate reiapee. in— asylum. look, i'm a legitimate refugee. i'm going to claim my reiaaee— refugee. i'm going to claim my refugee _think. refugee status where i think i paii— refugee status where i think i can build successful life for can build a successful life for nyseii. — can build a successful life for nyseii. -i— can build a successful life for. myself.-i-agreed myself. i mean, i really agreed viii—inesel with you before saying these pespie— with you before saying these pespie-apie- with you before saying these people - able to i with you before saying these. people - able to work people should be able to work vniie— - people should be able to work vniie— inai-si while they're working. that's vnere— while they're working. that's where. disagree. - while they're working. that's where disagree. is you where we disagree. is what you call because i don't call pathetic because i don't think is prima facie think that it is prima facie pathetic somebody think that it is prima facie path crosses somebody think that it is prima facie pathcrosses many somebody think that it is prima facie path crosses many safe omebody think that it is prima facie pathcrosses many safe nationsy who crosses many safe nations and paying drugs, you're paying people smugglers along the way in vast network in a vast network of criminality. something criminality. that is something i wouldn't permit. and if you come to us in the end via those routes, you're not going to be. but why should should routes, you're not going to be. i but why should-should france but why should why should france iare— but why should why should france rake—inan- but why should why should france iare—inaniisel take more refugees than we do? nsase— take more refugees than we do? nesaaseline— take more refugees than we do? because-the-they. because at the moment they do. why— because at the moment they do. tiny—inn- why not? ultimately, i'm willing. not? i'm willing willing. why not? i'm willing because feel like as a as because more i feel like as a as a as a rich, wealthy country, as part of the global community, we

should and should be stepping up and saying, we're strong, saying, look, we're a strong, decent . you know, we're decent country. you know, we're not decent country. you know, we're nsi rasisi— decent country. you know, we're not racist people. _ decent country. you know, we're not racist people. we— :t at.aia. you know, we're not racist people. we can vvessrnei— not racist people. we can welcome-many. not racist people. we can- welcome-many people welcome just as many people prspsriisnaieiy— proportionately, as france and germany.— proportionately, as france and germany-some- proportionately, as france and germany. some reason , germany. but for some reason, for germany. but for some reason, rsr—is- germany. but for some reason, rsr—is ns- germany. but for some reason,| rsr—is ns iaeae for some but there is no queue to for some but there is no queue is-iesaase— for some but there is no queue to-because there's- for some but there is no queue to because there's no other to jump because there's no other way— to jump because there's no other way is— to jump because there's no other way is gei— to jump because there's no other way is oer-ss— to jump because there's no other way is oer-ss ii— to jump because there's no other way to get so it seems to way to get here. so it seems to me— way to get here. so it seems to me a time— way to get here. so it seems to me a little disingenuous to me a little bit disingenuous to say—nave- me a little bit disingenuous toj say—nave ianpei me a little bit disingenuous to- say_have jumped the say these people have jumped the iaeae—is— say these people have jumped the queue—is literally- queue when there is literally no siner— queue when there is literally no siner way— queue when there is literally no siner nay inat— queue when there is literally no other way that they could psssiiiy— other way that they could psssiiiy-isr- other way that they could possibly for asylum will possibly apply for asylum will raniie— possibly apply for asylum will. raniie—is rumble on and on. i've got to say.— rumble on and on. i've got to say, disagree the pair of say, i disagree with the pair of you it comes to saying that you when it comes to saying that you when it comes to saying that you think you should have you don't think you should have special for people you don't think you should have spec have for people you don't think you should have spec have suspected people that have been suspected terrorists, i absolutely think that don't have that you should. you don't have to make your and to make your evidence and all the it public. but for the rest of it public. but for me personally , i definitely want me personally, i definitely want to would just boot to see yeah, i would just boot them that's them out. see, that's where actually don't believe actually yeah, i don't believe in of well, no, in the rule of law. well, no, what believe in is the human what i believe in is the human rights of people that live rights of the people that live in country and prioritising in this country and prioritising those the in this country and prioritising those rights the in this country and prioritising those rights of the in this country and prioritising those rights of some the in this country and prioritising those rights of some fellas in this country and prioritising those rights of some fella that human rights of some fella that is a terrorist in a terrorist organisation. i'm up for that. i want to keep these people safe. but guess what? that is all we've got time for. i suspect that this conversation will rumble on and on. so i'll leave

you to ponder your thoughts. gents, thank you very much for your time. thank you at home. have and i'll see have a good night and i'll see you . hello there. good you tomorrow. hello there. good evening. — you tomorrow. hello there. good evening. in— you tomorrow. hello there. good evening. i'm jonathan— hello there. good evening. i'm jonathan vautrey. here— evening. i'm jonathan vautrey. here _weather. here is your latest weather apiaie— here is your latest weather apiaie irsn — here is your latest weather update from office here is your latest weather- update from _office has update from the met office has iarnei— update from the met office has iarnei inas— update from the met office has turned into quite— update from the met office has turned into quite a soggy end to iaesiay— turned into quite a soggy end to iaesiay rsr— turned into quite a soggy end to tuesday for many— turned into quite a soggy end to tuesday for many of us and low presse is— tuesday for many of us and low pressure is going— tuesday for many of us and low pressure is going to with pressure is going to stay with us pressure is going to stay with asne-i— pressure is going to stay with asne-i ievv- pressure is going to stay with us-next few days. i pressure is going to stay with us next few days. it's us over the next few days. it's been— us over the next few days. it's been _weather. been bringing these weather irsnis— been bringing these weather irsnis inis— been bringing these weather fronts into western areas of the uk fronts into western areas of the rr ani— fronts into western areas of the rr ani iney-re— fronts into western areas of the uk and they're slowly pushing ineir— uk and they're slowly pushing ineir nay— uk and they're slowly pushing their way eastwards as we head inrsaansai— their way eastwards as we head throughout—this- throughout the rest of this evening— throughout the rest of this evening overnight, bringing evening and overnight, bringing rain-si— evening and overnight, bringing rain-of eastern- evening and overnight, bringing rain of eastern england rain to much of eastern england ani— rain to much of eastern england ani ap— rain to much of eastern england ani ap inis— rain to much of eastern england and up into scotland. some neavier— and up into scotland. some heavier bursts— and up into scotland. some heavier bursts possible, panisaiariy— heavier bursts possible, particularly across dumfries and saiisvvay.— particularly across dumfries and saiisvvay-is— particularly across dumfries and galloway,-is across- particularly across dumfries and galloway, is across eastern galloway, gale is across eastern ssasiai— galloway, gale is across eastern ssasiai aeas— galloway, gale is across eastern coastal areas of— galloway, gale is across eastern coastal areas of scotland and it viii— coastal areas of scotland and it viii ine— coastal areas of scotland and it viii in rain— coastal areas of scotland and it will the rain will— coastal areas of scotland and it will the rain will be falling as snow over the— will the rain will be falling as snow over the grampians as well . ssne— snow over the grampians as well . ssne seareri— snow over the grampians as well . some clearer developing . some clearer spells developing for . some clearer spells developing rsr-ani— . some clearer spells developing isr-ani vvaies- . some clearer spells developing for-and wales later- . some clearer spells developing for and wales later on for england and wales later on in-niani— for england and wales later on in-niani .— for england and wales later on in-niani . nai— for england and wales later on in-night , but that- for england and wales later on in night, but that will in the night, but that will any— in the night, but that will allow temperatures to off allow temperatures to drop off isvn—nii- allow temperatures to drop off down-mid low- allow temperatures to drop off down mid low single down into those mid low single neares— down into those mid low single iiaares. ss— down into those mid low single figures. so _chilly- down into those mid low single figures. so chilly start figures. so quite a chilly start to figures. so quite a chilly start is vveinesiay— figures. so quite a chilly start to wednesday morning. again, ssne—vesi- to wednesday morning. again, srnevves—i .- some showers in the west, psieniiai— some showers in the west, potential for— some showers in the west, potential for some snow over the rennines— potential for some snow over the pennines_ground- potential for some snow over the pennines_ground of. pennines and higher ground of rei— pennines and higher ground of aai-.— pennines and higher ground of rsi-. vve— pennines and higher ground of rsi-. vie inen- pennines and higher ground of a&e . we then get this a&e as well. we then get this sessni— a&e as well. we then get this sessni pane— a&e as well. we then get this second pulse of— a&e as well. we then get this second pulse of rain moving back inis— second pulse of rain moving back inn-renni—

second pulse of rain moving back into-ireland, wales- second pulse of rain moving back into-ireland, wales ,- into northern ireland, wales, ssainvesi— into northern ireland, wales, southwest england throughout vveinesiay— southwest england throughout wednesday that wednesday. that will be accompanied— wednesday. that will be accompanied further strong accompanied by further strong vinis— accompanied by further strong vinis. ine— accompanied by further strong winds. the risk— accompanied by further strong winds. the risk of— accompanied by further strong winds. the risk of gales severe aisna— winds. the risk of gales severe along coastlines,— winds. the risk of gales severe along coastlines, 60 mile an nsar— along coastlines, 60 mile an nsar oasis— along coastlines, 60 mile an hour gusts possible . so do take hour gusts possible. so do take care because there— hour gusts possible. so do take care because there be some care because there could be some iravei—iarae- travel disruption and large waves , temperatures quite waves, temperatures quite iisappsiniina— waves, temperatures quite disappointing ranging between nine— disappointing ranging between nine-iearees— disappointing ranging between nine degrees celsius. but nine ten degrees celsius. but prsiaiiy— nine ten degrees celsius. but probably feeling— nine ten degrees celsius. but probably feeling closer to 2 or 4 probably feeling closer to 2 or a iearees— probably feeling closer to 2 or 4 degrees when— probably feeling closer to 2 or 4 degrees when you are exposed to 4 degrees when you are exposed is inai. — 4 degrees when you are exposed is inai. vvini— 4 degrees when you are exposed to that. wind showers continuing panisaiariy— to that. wind showers continuing particularly across— to that. wind showers continuing particularly across the northern nati— particularly across the northern naii si— particularly across the northern naii si ine— particularly across the northern half of the uk— particularly across the northern half of the uk throughout vveinesiay— half of the uk throughout wednesday night, generally easing— wednesday night, generally easina sti— wednesday night, generally easing offlbit_ wednesday night, generally easing off bit more across easing off a bit more across vvaies— easing off a bit more across wales,-southern- easing off a bit more across wales, - southern of wales, central southern areas of inaiani. — wales, central southern areas of inoiani. nai— wales, central southern areas of england. but again, those clear speiis— england. but again, those clear speiis viii— england. but again, those clear spells will temperatures spells will allow temperatures to spells will allow temperatures is—aaain- spells will allow temperatures is—apain ani- to drop off once again and testing— to drop off once again and testing aaiie— to drop off once again and feeling quite chilly into to inarsiay. — feeling quite chilly into to thursday. daytime, the winds viii— thursday. daytime, the winds viii ie— thursday. daytime, the winds will be easing— thursday. daytime, the winds will be easing off now across ssainern— will be easing off now across southern areas— will be easing off now across southern areas of— will be easing off now across southern areas of the uk, neipina— southern areas of the uk, helping ii— southern areas of the uk, helping ii is— southern areas of the uk, helping it to just feel that siioniiy— helping it to just feel that siioniiy iii— helping it to just feel that slightly bit better compared to vveinesiay.— slightly bit better compared to wednesday, actually quite wednesday, but actually quite iiasiery— wednesday, but actually quite blustery-across- wednesday, but actually quite blustery across northern blustery still across northern ireiani— blustery still across northern ireland-northern- blustery still across northern ireland northern of ireland and northern areas of inaiani— england. it's remaining unsettled— england. it's remaining unsettled .— england. it's remaining unsettled . then as move unsettled. then as we move inrsaansai— unsettled. then as we move throughout thursday and friday vviin— throughout thursday and friday vain-area— throughout thursday and friday with-areallow- with another area of low pressure pushing pressure possibly pushing into ssainern— pressure possibly pushing into ssainern-si— pressure possibly pushing into southern-of the- pressure possibly pushing into southern of the uk, southern areas of the uk, psieniiai— southern areas of the uk, potential though, that things dry potential though, that things iry ap— potential though, that things iry ap as— potential though, that things iry ap as vve— potential though, that things dry up as we head into the veereni— dry up as we head into the weekend. but— dry up as we head into the weekend. but there's still

aivays— weekend. but there's still aivays ine— weekend. but there's still always the chance that we see tanner— always the chance that we see tanner-in— always the chance that we see further-in the _ always the chance that we see further in the north and further rain in the north and west.— further rain in the north and vest-iay- further rain in the north and vest-ry .-

by |5y| late | bvl late. many iaie- many stories iare.— many stories tonight, iaie. — many stories tonight, we'll talk assai— many stories tonight, we'll talk aisai any— many stories tonight, we'll talk aisai vvny ine — many stories tonight, we'll talk about why the queen wanted her aranissns— about why the queen wanted her oranissns is— about why the queen wanted her grandsons to fight— about why the queen wanted her grandsons to fight in afghanistan. innit: grandsons to fight in afghanistan. �*piai; it grandsons to fight in- afghanistan. we'll talk about clean air zones in our cities. are they really working or just pushing traffic elsewhere? but we'll begin with the story that 19 suspected terrorists are currently living in, four star hotels, having crossed the engush hotels, having crossed the english channel in small dinghies and that we won't be able to deport them. and i'll be asking the question, when will we wake up or do we just head towards disaster before all of that, let's get the news with polly middlehurst