nonh it's north- . it's saturday north it's saturday night and this is - it's saturday night and this is the saturday— - it's saturday night and this is the saturday-kyiv._ - it's saturday night and this is the saturday-kyiv. i'm- the saturday five kyiv. i'm darren— the saturday five kyiv. i'm darren grimes— the saturday five kyiv. i'm darren grimes along with albie amenkene— darren grimes along with albie amankona emily— darren grimes along with albie amankona emily carver. benjamin butterwereh— amankona emily carver. benjamin butterworth and— amankona emily carver. benjamin butterworth and dominique samuel . tonight— butterworth and dominique samuel . tonight en— butterworth and dominique samuel . nenngnn en ene— butterworth and dominique samuel . tonight on the show , i'm going . tonight on the show, i'm going to en— . tonight on the show, i'm going to ten yen— . tonight on the show, i'm going no net yen nny— . tonight on the show, i'm going to tell you why president trump neute— to tell you why president trump would ne— to tell you why president trump would be better— to tell you why president trump would be better for britain . would be better for britain. rm— would be better for britain. nnn going— would be better for britain. in going io— would be better for britain. i'm going to tell— would be better for britain. i'm going to tell you- would be better for britain. i'm going to tell you why it's racist to have dolls in a pub . racist to have dolls in a pub. i think nhs pay rises must come winn— i think nhs pay rises must come niin ine— i think nhs pay rises must come with the promise— i think nhs pay rises must come with the promise of reform . �*fo�*y with the promise of reform. why gyniinge— with the promise of reform. why gyniinge sonn— with the promise of reform. why gyrating.7 sam smith is a role model and how the bbc has failed us yet again. it's 8 pm. and onio— us yet again. it's 8 pm. and one is— us yet again. it's 8 pm. and one is ine— us yet again. it's 8 pm. and one ie one .— this is the. saturday five. neieone— this is the. saturday five. welcome to— this is the. saturday five. welcome to the saturday five. inie— welcome to the saturday five.

inie io— welcome to the saturday five. inie ie one — welcome to the saturday five. this is the best— welcome to the saturday five. this is the best saturday night ioneonoy— this is the best saturday night takeaway that— this is the best saturday night takeaway that you could possibly oieii — takeaway that you could possibly oneno ivengiooy— takeaway that you could possibly order. everybody get up because five order. everybody get up because iive one— order. everybody get up because iive nene— order. everybody get up because five are here and— order. everybody get up because five are here and we are gonna keep— five are here and we are gonna keep on— five are here and we are gonna keep on moving— five are here and we are gonna keep on moving all the way innongn— keep on moving all the way through until— keep on moving all the way through until 9:00 every week. you— through until 9:00 every week. you eon— through until 9:00 every week. you ioin— through until 9:00 every week. you can join myself and emily aiiie— you can join myself and emily one one— you can join myself and emily albie and benjamin as we debate all albie and benjamin as we debate oii ine— albie and benjamin as we debate oii one big— albie and benjamin as we debate all the big issues— albie and benjamin as we debate all the big issues and was eoeoioi— all the big issues and was special guest— all the big issues and was special guest this week is the iniiiioni— special guest this week is the brilliant political— special guest this week is the brilliant political commentator noninigne— brilliant political commentator dominique samuels. now each of us win— dominique samuels. now each of no niii gei— dominique samuels. now each of ne niii gei insi— dominique samuels. now each of us will get just 60— dominique samuels. now each of us will get just 60 seconds to oniiine— us will get just 60 seconds to oniiine on— us will get just 60 seconds to outline our argument and then the outline our argument and then one inn— outline our argument and then the fun starts— outline our argument and then the fun starts as— outline our argument and then the fun starts as we all pile in. — the fun starts as we all pile in. oi— the fun starts as we all pile in. of course,— the fun starts as we all pile in. of course, we- the fun starts as we all pile in. f the fun starts as we all pile in. of course, we want to know your views as well. get involved. email us at gb views at gbnews.uk. we will share the best ones later in the show. but before it all kicks off, here is your saturday night news with tatiana . emily, thank tatiana sanchez. emily, thank you tatiana sanchez. emily, thank yon ven— tatiana sanchez. emily, thank yon very noon.— tatiana sanchez. emily, thank you very much. this- tatiana sanchez. emily, thank you very much. this is- f emily, thank you very much. this is the neon— you very much. this is the latest from _ you very much. this is the latest from the _ you very much. this is the latest from the gb newsroom iieneeyeiie— latest from the gb newsroom merseyside police says 118 oeooie— merseyside police says 118 people nove— merseyside police says 118 people have now been arrested ioiioning— people have now been arrested following disruption caused at the following disruption caused at one onene— following disruption caused at the grand national . protesters the grand national. protesters enoeeei— the grand national. protesters enoeeei ine— the grand national. protesters crossed the track— the grand national. protesters crossed the track at aintree,

ineoening — crossed the track at aintree, breaching security fences with at breaching security fences with an ieoei— breaching security fences with an ieoei ino — breaching security fences with at least two glueing themselves to at least two glueing themselves io o— at least two glueing themselves io o jump— at least two glueing themselves io o innn .— at least two glueing themselves io o jump . ine— at least two glueing themselves to a jump . the animal rising to a jump. the animal rising group— to a jump. the animal rising gnono eoye— to a jump. the animal rising gnono eoye ine— to a jump. the animal rising group says the event is cruel, winn— group says the event is cruel, niin oo— group says the event is cruel, with 60 horses— group says the event is cruel, with 60 horses dying at the ieeiivoi— with 60 horses dying at the festival over— with 60 horses dying at the festival over the _ with 60 horses dying at the festival over the past 23 years. innee — festival over the past 23 years. innee nones— festival over the past 23 years. three horses died— festival over the past 23 years. three horses died during this yen-e— three horses died during this yen-e innee— three horses died during this year's three day— three horses died during this year's three day event, the neon— year's three day event, the latest hill— year's three day event, the latest hill 16— year's three day event, the latest hill 16 racehorse who enifenei— latest hill 16 racehorse who enifenei o— latest hill 16 racehorse who suffered a heavy fall at the ini— suffered a heavy fall at the first fence. _ suffered a heavy fall at the first fence. the— suffered a heavy fall at the first fence. the government is unten— first fence. the government is nnoen oneeenne— first fence. the government is under pressure to— first fence. the government is under pressure to prevent the nosi— under pressure to prevent the most enenne— under pressure to prevent the most extreme nurses strike yet onen— most extreme nurses strike yet oiien ine— most extreme nurses strike yet after the latest— most extreme nurses strike yet after the latest pay offer was elected— after the latest pay offer was neteetei oni— after the latest pay offer was rejected and members from the non— rejected and members from the non voted— rejected and members from the rcn voted against the 5% pay rise:— rcn voted against the 5% pay neoning— rcn voted against the 5% pay rise, meaning nhs nurses in enengeney— rise, meaning nhs nurses in emergency departments , intensive emergency departments, intensive oni— emergency departments, intensive care and cancer wards will take inineinioi— care and cancer wards will take industrial action— care and cancer wards will take industrial action for the first time. — industrial action for the first time. ine— industrial action for the first time. ine ne— industrial action for the first time. the 48 hour walkout will sign— time. the 48 hour walkout will sign on— time. the 48 hour walkout will sign on ine— time. the 48 hour walkout will start on the 30th— time. the 48 hour walkout will start on the 30th of april, but into— start on the 30th of april, but mo of— start on the 30th of april, but 74% of unison _ start on the 30th of april, but 74% of unison members voted to accent— 74% of unison members voted to accept tne— 74% of unison members voted to accept tne sonne— 74% of unison members voted to accept the same offer . meanwhile accept the same offer. meanwhile iooyoi— accept the same offer. meanwhile iooyoi noi— accept the same offer. meanwhile noyoi noii oni— accept the same offer. meanwhile royal mail and the— accept the same offer. meanwhile royal mail and the communication wonken— royal mail and the communication wonken iinion— royal mail and the communication workers union have— royal mail and the communication workers union have reached a geek— workers union have reached a tent on— workers union have reached a new on now— workers union have reached a deal on pay and— workers union have reached a deal on pay and employment kenne— deal on pay and employment iennne. in— deal on pay and employment iennne. in o— deal on pay and employment terms. in a statement , the cwu terms. in a statement, the cwu enig— terms. in a statement, the cwu eoii ine— terms. in a statement, the cwu said the agreement will be considered— said the agreement will be considered by— said the agreement will be

considered by the executive of the considered by the executive of we ion— considered by the executive of the union before— considered by the executive of the union before being voted on by the union before being voted on to ine— the union before being voted on by tne union-e— the union before being voted on by the union's membership . by the union's membership. detain— by the union's membership. netoin on— by the union's membership. details on that— by the union's membership. details on that agreement are expected— details on that agreement are expected next— details on that agreement are expected next week . the shadow expected next week. the shadow onnet— expected next week. the shadow onnet tones— expected next week. the shadow armed forces minister has told gb armed forces minister has told on newe— armed forces minister has told on news o— armed forces minister has told gb news a blind— armed forces minister has told gb news a blind eye is being twnnet— gb news a blind eye is being tuned to— gb news a blind eye is being turned to predators around parliament. _ turned to predators around parliament. luke pollard has teeenitet— parliament. luke pollard has described westminster as the most— described westminster as the most unprofessional workplace nen— most unprofessional workplace he's encountered.— most unprofessional workplace he's encountered. speaking to nionio— he's encountered. speaking to eionio pe— he's encountered. speaking to gloria de piero,_ he's encountered. speaking to gloria de piero, the mp who has neeentiw— gloria de piero, the mp who has recently announced— gloria de piero, the mp who has recently announced he'll step took— recently announced he'll step took tnon — recently announced he'll step back from politics, says victims of back from politics, says victims ot oiwee — back from politics, says victims ot oiwee ont— back from politics, says victims of abuse and bullying are nepeotetiw— of abuse and bullying are repeatedly being let down. i etiii— repeatedly being let down. i etiii ton-t— repeatedly being let down. i still don't think— repeatedly being let down. i still don't think westminster is a still don't think westminster is o ente— still don't think westminster is o note pine— still don't think westminster is o eote pioee to— still don't think westminster is a safe place to work, especially for a safe place to work, especially ton nonw— a safe place to work, especially ton nonw ot— a safe place to work, especially for many of the— a safe place to work, especially for many of the young members of etott— for many of the young members of etott tnot— for many of the young members of etott tnot itin— for many of the young members of staff that mps employ. ' t: for many of the young members of staff that mps employ. ' i: staff that mps employ. and we know— staff that mps employ. and we know not— staff that mps employ. and we know that there are predators around westminster that are sometimes is allowed to continue to or a blind eye turned . and i to or a blind eye turned. and i want to see that changed because i think westminster should embody the very best of our country . it should be a place country. it should be a place that people aspire to get elected to and then want to change the world from a position of strength. and i'm afraid at the moment i sometimes feel

westminster the rest of the westminster lets the rest of the country down and can see country down and you can see that full interview with the shadow armed forces minister luke pollard on meets luke pollard on gloria meets tomorrow at p.m. luke pollard on gloria meets tomorrow at pm. the scottish tomorrow at 6 pm. the scottish nowennnent— tomorrow at 6 pm. the scottish government is— ip the scottish government is considering going— government is considering onotting in— government is considering drafting in the— government is considering drafting in the army to help run the drafting in the army to help run tne key— drafting in the army to help run the key highland— drafting in the army to help run the key highland ferry service. it's the key highland ferry service. its one— the key highland ferry service. no otten o— the key highland ferry service. it's after a vessel— the key highland ferry service. it's after a vessel broke down toot— it's after a vessel broke down toot inton— it's after a vessel broke down last friday, resulting in a 42 nie— last friday, resulting in a 42 mile diversion— last friday, resulting in a 42 mile diversion for prospective poeeenegn — mile diversion for prospective passengers. the— mile diversion for prospective passengers. the five minute enoeeing— passengers. the five minute crossing usually— passengers. the five minute crossing usually carries more tnon— crossing usually carries more than 270,000— crossing usually carries more than 270,000 cars a year. well, ennnentiw— than 270,000 cars a year. well, currently there's— than 270,000 cars a year. well, currently there's only a foot poeeengen— currently there's only a foot passenger service operating twine— passenger service operating twiee o— passenger service operating twiee o tow— passenger service operating twice a day to— passenger service operating twice a day to tv online dab+ notio— twice a day to tv online dab+ notio. kno— twice a day to tv online dab+ notio. ant on— twice a day to tv online dab+ radio. and on tune— twice a day to tv online dab+ radio. and on tune in this is gb wewe. — radio. and on tune in this is gb wewe. wow— radio. and on tune in this is gb news. now ite— radio. and on tune in this is gb news. now it's back to the . news. now it's back to the. sotnnoow— news. now it's back to the. saturday five. _ saturday five. kee- saturday five. ten it- saturday five. yes it is- saturday five. yes it is saturday saturday five. _ yes it is saturday night. vow-ne— yes it is saturday night. vow-no witt— yes it is saturday night. you're with the- yes it is saturday night. you're with the saturday five. i'm emily carver. i can promise

that you are for in a very lively hour. we will debate some of the biggest talking points of the week. no point messing around. get stuck into around. so let's get stuck into our discussion now, then our first discussion now, then darren going to tell us why darren is going to tell us why donald regaining the donald trump regaining the presidency would be good for britain . let's start the clock. britain. let's start the clock. well, folks, look , president well, folks, look, president biden's just gone and i say good riddance to bad rubbish because president biden does not like britain. he's made that oinointeiw— britain. he's made that absolutely clear.- " he's made that absolutely clear. whilst he was tene— absolutely clear. whilst he was ten, ne— absolutely clear. whilst he was here, he -taken_ absolutely clear. whilst he was here, he taken selfies with here, he was taken selfies with eenn— here, he was taken selfies with gerry atoms— here, he was taken selfies with gerry adams for— here, he was taken selfies with gerry adams for goodness sake. tneeioent— gerry adams for goodness sake. president trump— gerry adams for goodness sake. president trump would never have tone — president trump would never have tone—wnint- president trump would never have done _whilst he - president trump would never have done _whilst he was. done such a thing whilst he was nen.— done such a thing whilst he was ten. ne— done such a thing whilst he was here. he snubbed— done such a thing whilst he was here. he snubbed rishi sunak getting— here. he snubbed rishi sunak getting ott— here. he snubbed rishi sunak getting off that— here. he snubbed rishi sunak getting off that plane and wetting— getting off that plane and visiting northern ireland and oetnoitw— visiting northern ireland and actually having— visiting northern ireland and actually having a sit down, a totte— actually having a sit down, a page, on— actually having a sit down, a page, on tnew— actually having a sit down, a latte, as they called it, with itneeioent, — latte, as they called it, with president, with _ latte, as they called it, with president, with prime minister tinni— president, with prime minister itnni smok— president, with prime minister rishi sunak. he— president, with prime minister rishi sunak. he couldn't even tinnn— rishi sunak. he couldn't even tinnn nin— rishi sunak. he couldn't even finish his coffee— rishi sunak. he couldn't even finish his coffee before biden ott— finish his coffee before biden on. i— finish his coffee before biden was off. i reckon— finish his coffee before biden was off. i reckon we need tneeioent— was off. i reckon we need president trump back in the wnite— president trump back in the white house— president trump back in the white house and then the special neiotionenip— white house and then the special relationship will— white house and then the special relationship will be special ogoin. — relationship will be special ogoin. ne— relationship will be special again. he loved— relationship will be special again. he loved this country. he wooin— again. he loved this country. he wonio nove— again. he loved this country. he would have loved— again. he loved this country. he would have loved to come to the

ootion— would have loved to come to the ootion in— would have loved to come to the coronation in respect of our tote— coronation in respect of our iote not-entw— coronation in respect of our late majesty. he- coronation in respect of our late majesty. he would have otteneo— late majesty. he would have otteneo o— late majesty. he would have offered a trade— late majesty. he would have offered a trade deal in an inetont— offered a trade deal in an instant with— offered a trade deal in an instant with britain. he was for nnitoin— instant with britain. he was for nnitoin ton— instant with britain. he was for britain for brexit,_ instant with britain. he was for britain for brexit, for boris, ono— britain for brexit, for boris, one i— britain for brexit, for boris, and i reckon— britain for brexit, for boris, and i reckon we— britain for brexit, for boris, and i reckon we would be all the tetten— and i reckon we would be all the tetten it— and i reckon we would be all the tetten it ne— and i reckon we would be all the better if he was— and i reckon we would be all the better if he was back in the wnite— better if he was back in the white house— better if he was back in the white house over slow. joe biden nignt— white house over slow. joe biden nignt kitte— white house over slow. joe biden right albie then— white house over slow. joe biden right albie then come on. oh ponnn — right albie then come on. oh darren. darren. _ right albie then come on. oh darren. i i i darren. darren. darren darren. do you not remember what it was like when we had donald trump as the president? there were no united states and the prime minister of this country, boris johnson or theresa may. those weren't comfortable relationships with those prime ministers. and i think the idea that anglo american relations are going to improve if donald trump is elected as the president in 2024 now is for the birds. so president in 2024 now is for the birds . so you reckon president birds. so you reckon president nioen— birds. so you reckon president nioen wooin— birds. so you reckon president biden would be— at: so you reckon president biden would be better for t:3 so you reckon president biden would be better for the tiiotenoi— biden would be better for the bilateral relationship? i think otnoet— bilateral relationship? i think oinoet onw— bilateral relationship? i think almost any president would be tetten— almost any president would be tetten tnon— almost any president would be better than donald trump. i ton-t— better than donald trump. i ton-t even— better than donald trump. i don't even want— better than donald trump. i don't even want to - better than donald trump. i don't even want to see- better than donald trump. i don't even want to see donald trump win the republican trump to win the republican nomination. i'd like see nomination. i'd like to see nikki haley it. i mean,

nikki haley win it. i mean, dominic, on. nikki haley win it. i mean, dominic,-on. right.- dominic, come on. right. tneeioent— dominic, come on. right. president clearly dominic, come on. right.- president-clearly doesn't president biden clearly doesn't like president biden clearly doesn't iike-eonntw— president biden clearly doesn't like-country very- president biden clearly doesn't like country very much. like this country very much. i meanicome-like- like this country very much. i mean come i“ like this country very much. i mean come " �*" like this country very much. i- meanicome-like even if you mean, come on. like even if you dislike trump, which you clearly do, and believe that he wouldn't be stopped the second coming of christ for this country, you can at least admit that biden and really just seem to be a sort of democrat attitude towards this country, particularly after brexit. they're not so friendly onwnone i— brexit. they're not so friendly anymore. i mean,— mix e they're not so friendly anymore. i mean, my personal view— anymore. i mean, my personal n— anymore. i mean, my personal n tnot— anymore. i mean, my personal view is that this— anymore. i mean, my personal view is that this whole special neiotionenip— view is that this whole special relationship thing, i think it tekt— relationship thing, i think it teii opont— relationship thing, i think it tett opon o— relationship thing, i think it fell apart a long time ago. but. nioen— fell apart a long time ago. but. nioen won— fell apart a long time ago. but. biden, you really— fell apart a long time ago. but. biden, you really think he's tnot— biden, you really think he's that friendly— biden, you really think he's that friendly with this country? tne — that friendly with this country? the comments— that friendly with this country? the comments that he's made onont— the comments that he's made otont twent— the comments that he's made about brexit, the— the comments that he's made about brexit, the comments that nen— about brexit, the comments that nen note— about brexit, the comments that he's made about— about brexit, the comments that he's made about the english in he's made about the engliin in his he's made about the english in tie on— he's made about the english in his own autobiography , you know, his own autobiography, you know, the his own autobiography, you know, tne int— his own autobiography, you know, tne int goes— his own autobiography, you know, the list goes on.— his own autobiography, you know, the list goes on. i— his own autobiography, you know, the list goes on. i mean, pent-omin— the list goes on. i mean, benjamin, did- the list goes on. i mean, benjamin, did it bother you at out — benjamin, did it bother you at out seen— benjamin, did it bother you at all? seen him— benjamin, did it bother you at all? " g benjamin, did it bother you at all? " " g l g all? seen him posing, smiling like a cheshire cat with gerry adams ? i mean, i think it's adams? i mean, i think it's town.— adams? i mean, i think it's down its— adams? i mean, i think it's down. it's down.— 3“ i mean, i think it's down. it's down. falls recently nove— down. it's down. falls recently nowe teen— down. it's down. falls recently have been sort— down. it's down. falls recently have been sort of— down. it's down. falls recently have been sort of gerry adams ono— have been sort of gerry adams and geriatrics,— have been sort of gerry adams and geriatrics, frankly . you and geriatrics, frankly. you know— and geriatrics, frankly. you know that's— and geriatrics, frankly. you know that's you know those are tningn— know that's you know those are tninge tnot— know that's you know those are things that don't— know that's you know those are things that don't go in his towow. — things that don't go in his towow not— things that don't go in his favour. but i— things that don't go in his favour. but i think that britain

neeoe— favour. but i think that britain needs to— favour. but i think that britain needs to take— favour. but i think that britain needs to take a— favour. but i think that britain needs to take a hard look at ineit— needs to take a hard look at itself because— needs to take a hard look at itself because the reason that we-not— itself because the reason that we-not ot— itself because the reason that we - not at the _ itself because the reason that we-not at the top - itself because the reason that we not at the top of the we are not at the top of the int— we are not at the top of the int-it— we are not at the top of the list-it comes- we are not at the top of the list-it comes to- we are not at the top of the list it comes to america in list when it comes to america in a list when it comes to america in o-e tne- list when it comes to america in a we were the reason a way that we were the reason tnot— a way that we were the reason tnot nioen— a way that we were the reason that biden isn't— a way that we were the reason that biden isn't prioritising the that biden isn't prioritising tne wniteo— that biden isn't prioritising the united kingdom in a way that was-commonplace- the united kingdom in a way that was commonplace before was more commonplace before is teeowee— was more commonplace before is because-decisions— was more commonplace before is because decisions we've because of decisions we've made ourselves-that's- because of decisions we've made ourselves that's brexit ourselves, whether that's brexit ono— ourselves, whether that's brexit ono-wonneo— ourselves, whether that's brexit and-warned us,- ourselves, whether that's brexit and warned us, the us did, and they warned us, the us did, tnot— and they warned us, the us did, tnot wet— and they warned us, the us did, tnot no te— and they warned us, the us did, that we'd be at— and they warned us, the us did, that we'd be at the— and they warned us, the us did, that we'd be at the back of the queue— that we'd be at the back of the queue on— that we'd be at the back of the queue or whether— that we'd be at the back of the queue or whether did queue or whether democrats did or queue or whether democrats did on wnetnen— queue or whether democrats did or whether it's— queue or whether democrats did or whether it's failing to stand eioee— or whether it's failing to stand otoee to— or whether it's failing to stand close to america— or whether it's failing to stand close to america in other ways. i close to america in other ways. i neon— close to america in other ways. i ono— close to america in other ways. i mean, and the— close to america in other ways. i mean, and the truth is that i tnink— i mean, and the truth is that i tnink tnot— i mean, and the truth is that i think that we— i mean, and the truth is that i think that we should look at ourselves not— think that we should look at ourselves not whingeing about nin— ourselves not whingeing about nin iiking— ourselves not whingeing about him liking ireland the him liking ireland over the last eowpie— him liking ireland over the last eowpieloowe. — him liking ireland over the last couple-days. it's- him liking ireland over the last couple days. t: him liking ireland over the last couple days. e t: f couple of days. it's quite clear to me that the american population are a more than population are a lot more than the party right? the the democratic party right? the democratic like democratic party didn't like brexit. whakaari brexit. they like whakaari and walkeri and frankly, turning american crime american cities into crime fidden american cities into crime ridden holes. yes, american cities into crime ridden holes . yes, i think ridden hell holes. yes, i think a lot of ridden hell holes. yes, i think o tot ot peopie— ridden hell holes. yes, i think a lot of people well,- ” can?“ yes, i think a lot of people well, we've seen now— a lot of people well, we've seen now peopie— a lot of people well, we've seen now peopte nove— a lot of people well, we've seen how people have been moved ing young,— how people have been moved ing young, aspirational— how people have been moved ing young, aspirational people have teen— young, aspirational people have teen-non— young, aspirational people have been from democrat states been moving from democrat states to—ntotee— been moving from democrat states to_states because - to republican states because tnew— to republican states because tnew wont— to republican states because they want lower— to republican states because they want lower taxes. "t; to republican states because they want lower taxes. "can they want lower taxes. they want teno— they want lower taxes. they want less burden. but— they want lower taxes. they want less burden. but we've- they want lower taxes. "can 01:7" but we've also they want lower taxes. "can t:1:7�* but we've also seen less burden. but we've also seen young— less burden. but we've also seen young women— less burden. but we've also seen young noe— t:1:7�* but we've also seen young women move from red states to nine— young women move from red states to pipe etotee— young women move from red states to blue states because they want

to blue states because they want to none— to blue states because they want to have access— to blue states because they want to have access to— to blue states because they want to have access to abortion. but if to have access to abortion. but it we— to have access to abortion. but it we totk— to have access to abortion. but if we talk about— to have access to abortion. but if we talk about the economy and thatis if we talk about the economy and that is one of the major reasons why people move around the us, that's one of the major reasons why around why people move around the world. buti why people move around the world. but i do think it's quite ektnoonoinow— world. but i do think it's quite extraordinary that— : but i do think it's quite extraordinary that president nioen— extraordinary that president biden considering biden is even considering nwnning— biden is even considering nwnning-tne- running again for the presidential as a presidential eonoioote. — presidential as a presidential candidate. -really- presidential as a presidential candidate. ”camp is candidate. it is really quite extraordinary in terms of extraordinary just in terms of the way he is able to communicate or not able to communicate or not able to communicate and get across his message to the country. it really is quite extraordinary tnot— really is quite extraordinary tnot ne— really is quite extraordinary that he consider really is quite extraordinary that he _consider but i that he would consider it. but i think— that he would consider it. but i think wnot— that he would consider it. but i think what should rule him out is absolute disastrous is the absolute disastrous withdrawal from afghanistan that should rule him out as being president. in my view . should rule him out as being president. in my view. i'll be on that point then. i mean, on the afghanistan question , it was the afghanistan question, it was it's proven right. you can look back at the four years in office that donald trump had. there were no intervention zones. there were no wars like that. there were no wars like that. there were no disastrous pull outs. actually, president biden, president rather, president trump, rather, presided over the west actually being emboldened to stand up to the likes of china, to iran, for

example . and there were no example. and there were no escalations of the kind that we've seen since president biden . darren, i'm so pleased that you brought up the disastrous afghan pullout because you know who's responsible . motty that who's responsible. motty that was who's responsible. motty that oonoto— who's responsible. motty that was donald trump.— who's responsible. motty that was donald trump. he- motty that was donald trump. he would never nove— was donald trump. he would never nowe oone— was donald trump. he would never nowe done it— was donald trump. he would never have done it was— was donald trump. he would never have done it was donald trump wno— have done it was donald trump wno toeieoiw— have done it was donald trump who basically organised that ononton— who basically organised that disastrous pullout from afghanistan.- disastrous pullout from afghanistan. yes it did happen unten— afghanistan. yes it did happen wnoen nioen— afghanistan. yes it did happen under biden, but— afghanistan. yes it did happen under biden, but stewarded by nonp— under biden, but stewarded by inwnp, tne— under biden, but stewarded by trump, the iran— under biden, but stewarded by trump, the iran deal that we had— trump, the iran deal that we not, tne— trump, the iran deal that we had, the iran— trump, the iran deal that we had, the iran deal that we had, wnien— had, the iran deal that we had, wnien etoppeo— had, the iran deal that we had, which stopped iran from winning— which stopped iran from enriching uranium make enriching uranium to make nweeoni— enriching uranium to make nuclear weapons. donald trump potted— nuclear weapons. donald trump pwiieo ont— nuclear weapons. donald trump pwitet owt ot— nuclear weapons. donald trump pulled out of it.— nuclear weapons. donald trump pulled out of it. yes, because so pulled out of it. yes, because no tne— pulled out of it. yes, because no tne ioeo— pulled out of it. yes, because so the idea the— pulled out of it. yes, because so the idea the idea the idea tnot— so the idea the idea the idea tnot oonoto— so the idea the idea the idea that donald trump is better for international— that donald trump is better for international relations is tonieoi— international relations is tonieoi. — international relations is farcical . albie- international relations is farcical . t1:; : international relations is farcical . t1:; t:1:7�* farcical. albie biden also rhetorically at least, gave the green light for russia to invade ukraine. he said a suggested that a little bit going to russia would be okay. i think that he hasn't shown a strong stance when it comes . do you? stance when it comes. do you? honestly, stance when it comes. do you? noneetiw tn— stance when it comes. do you? honestly, i'm no— stance when it comes. do you? honestly, i'm no trump- f 1“ e f do you? honestly, i'm no trump fan, but i honestly, i'm no trump fan, but i ton-t— honestly, i'm no trump fan, but i ton-t tnink— honestly, i'm no trump fan, but i don't think you— honestly, i'm no trump fan, but i don't think you can argue that tneeioent— i don't think you can argue that president biden— i don't think you can argue that president biden has been good for president biden has been good ton knenno— president biden has been good for america geopolitically , but for america geopolitically, but i for america geopolitically, but i ton-t— for america geopolitically, but i ton-t tnink— for america geopolitically, but i don't think you— for america geopolitically, but i don't think you can. yes,

pieoee— i don't think you can. yes, pieoee to. — i don't think you can. yes, please do. gm?“ i don't think you can. yes,- please do. afghanistan, because i just think you're factually incorrect there when donald trump was president, incorrect there when donald trump was president , the taliban trump was president, the taliban were under control . and the were under control. and the minute joe biden took office, they started gaining more ground and biden and the biden administration, whoever's responsible for international relations , they were aware that relations, they were aware that the taliban were expanding and they chose to do nothing. and that's why the withdrawal was so disastrous. they even left weapons and aircraft behind . you weapons and aircraft behind. you cannot blame that on a previous president on that fundamental point , though, and emily, i'll point, though, and emily, i'll put this to you . i mean, the put this to you. i mean, the toot— put this to you. i mean, the toot ot— put this to you. i mean, the toot ot tne— put this to you. i mean, the fact of the matter- put this to you. i mean, the fact of the matter is,- i mean, the fact of the matter is, right, we in onion— fact of the matter is, right, we in britain was— fact of the matter is, right, we in britain was not— fact of the matter is, right, we in britain was not a us penitent— in britain was not a us president that actually quite iiken— president that actually quite iiken tne— president that actually quite likes the country. and it's eteon— likes the country. and it's eteon to— likes the country. and it's clear to me— likes the country. and it's clear to me in— likes the country. and it's clear to me in everything that biden— clear to me in everything that biden an,— clear to me in everything that biden did, saying— clear to me in everything that biden did, saying he wouldn't to— biden did, saying he wouldn't to tne— biden did, saying he wouldn't come to the coronation, even sowing,— come to the coronation, even sowing, you— come to the coronation, even sowing, you know,— come to the coronation, even saying, you know, the selfie witn— saying, you know, the selfie witn eenn— saying, you know, the selfie with gerry adams, i can't stress enowgn— with gerry adams, i can't stress enowgn now— with gerry adams, i can't stress enough how much— with gerry adams, i can't stress enough how much that actually notw— enough how much that actually neoiw-wine— enough how much that actually really-wins me,— enough how much that actually really wins me, frankly, to really paid wins me, frankly, to tnot— really paid wins me, frankly, to see that selfie— really paid wins me, frankly, to see that selfie with gerry adams and see that selfie with gerry adams on oetwoiw— see that selfie with gerry adams and actually just— see that selfie with gerry adams and actually just the way the ente— and actually just the way the smile across— and actually just the way the smile across his— and actually just the way the smile across his face, i think i, smile across his face, i think ., p— smile across his face, i think

i i gee — smile across his face, i think ., i oneeg not— smile across his face, i think i, i agree. but i— smile across his face, i think i, i agree. butl do- smile across his face, i think i, i agree. t:t1::t i, i agree. but i do think that we don't want to view donald trump with rose tinted glasses because he talked a good game. he did talk about how boris johnson was, you know, britain's trump . he talked about how trump. he talked about how brexit was this fantastic thing and it mirrored his his leadership in the united states . but actually, he didn't push forward with a trade deal. he didn't push forward with those things. he was rather protectionist in his outlook. he wasn't thinking about, oh, free trade with the uk is going to be fantastic. so i think we should look at them both as very different people and decide whether on balance either would be the best person. dominique i oetwoiw— be the best person. dominique i oetwoiw tnink— be the best person. dominique i actually think that— dominique i actually think that brexit, the ponies— actually think that brexit, the parallels between brexit and nonp— parallels between brexit and trump, whilst— parallels between brexit and trump, whilst they are different , otwiowew— trump, whilst they are different , obviously leaving , obviously it was leaving a poiitieoi— , obviously it was leaving a political bloc— , obviously it was leaving a political bloc there are political bloc. there are similarities— political bloc. there are similarities sense of political bloc. there are- similarities-sense of it similarities in the sense of it tne— similarities in the sense of it was the deplorables right ? it was the deplorables right? it tne— was the deplorables right? it was the people— was the deplorables right? it was the people that shouldn't oetwoiw— was the people that shouldn't oetwoiw get— was the people that shouldn't oetwoiw get o— was the people that shouldn't actually get a say over owning.— actually get a say over anything. donald was their anything. donald trump was their non-oetwoiw— anything. donald trump was their non-oetwoiw ,— anything. donald trump was their man-actually , if— anything. donald trump was their man actually , if only we had man and actually, if only we had a man and actually, if only we had o oonoto— man and actually, if only we had o oonoto nonp— man and actually, if only we had a donald trump here in britain. neon.— a donald trump here in britain. keon. kno— a donald trump here in britain. keon. ant ono— a donald trump here in britain. yeah. and also so— a donald trump here in britain. yeah. and also so it— a donald trump here in britain. yeah. and also so it was- a donald trump here in britain. yeah. and also so it was about the deplorables sort of

narrative of people, you know, the certain people that should have shouldn't have have a voice and shouldn't have a it's also about a voice. but it's also about wanting to put our respective countries first actually countries first and actually prioritise and, prioritise our interests. and, you know, i'm not mad at donald trump for that protectionism gets very bad rap, i think in gets a very bad rap, i think in the grand scheme of things. you know, if things are beneficial for that nation state, they should right? should be pursued, right? that's it. the klaxon has nownteoi— that's it. the klaxon has sounded, i'm— that's it. the klaxon has sounded, i'm afraid to announce. up sounded, i'm afraid to announce. tip next,— sounded, i'm afraid to announce. tip next, ite— sounded, i'm afraid to announce. up next, it's benjamin and he's going— up next, it's benjamin and he's going to— up next, it's benjamin and he's going to tekt— up next, it's benjamin and he's going to teti we— up next, it's benjamin and he's going to tell us why sam smith is going to tell us why sam smith in opponentw— going to tell us why sam smith in opponentw o— going to tell us why sam smith is apparently a great role notew— is apparently a great role model. start— is apparently a great role model. start the clock. buckle up,— model. start the clock. buckle up, nnitoin. — model. start the clock. buckle up, britain. sam— model. start the clock. buckle up, britain. sam smith is a role model because they have been and they are using they them pronouns, which i'm sure the rest of the panel will stick to this week. sam has been labelled as a satanist and a. why well, because at the first edition of their tour in sheffield, they were seen gyrating in a thong and in a music video you can watch sam smith being sprayed

with fountains of water surrounded by scantily clad dancers. well you know what i say. good on them. but also some people say that it might be like paedophilia because what if kids see this stuff? well, the truth is no kid has to watch a music video. and if a parent takes them to a concert by sam smith, well, that's something called parental responsibility , not the parental responsibility, not the fault of the pop star seconds . fault of the pop star seconds. and so that's why i say that we should celebrate sam smith as a great british success story . and great british success story. and the squad should . oh god. the god squad should. oh god. now i i'm sure that hasn't ruffled any feathers at all. dominic, do you believe in freedom? i don't think he's a great british success story at all. ithink great british success story at all. i think it's a really sad tning— all. i think it's a really sad tning wnot-e— i think it's a really sad thing what's happened to sam snitn. — thing what's happened to sam snitn. nen— thing what's happened to sam smith. : smith. he's spiralled into the depths of depravity . and that's depths of depravity. and that's what's depths of depravity. and that's wnot-e notw— depths of depravity. and that's what's really sad— : : can and that's what's really sad because he has an what's really sad because he has on onozing— what's really sad because he has an amazing voice— what's really sad because he has an amazing voice . _ what's really sad because he has an amazing voice . 41:1». what's really sad because he has an amazing voice . 41:4 an amazing voice. you know, he too— an amazing voice. you know, he has a soulful, angelic voice. and instead of using that

beautiful voice to uplift people and make them feel good, he's using it to promote his own interests by just being gross and disgusting . i mean, interests by just being gross and disgusting. i mean, i'm sorry. but first of all, sam snitn— sorry. but first of all, sam snitn noe— sorry. but first of all, sam smith has six— but first of all, sam smith has six grammys, an oscar, a smith has six grammys, an oscar, o gotten— smith has six grammys, an oscar, o gotten ente— smith has six grammys, an oscar, a golden globe. he's— smith has six grammys, an oscar, a golden globe. he's talented, ot— a golden globe. he's talented, ot tne— a golden globe. he's talented, one of the most— a golden globe. he's talented, one of the most successful nnitnn— one of the most successful british artists— one of the most successful british artists that we have ever produced— british artists that we have ever produced ._ british artists that we have ever produced . and the idea that ever produced. and the idea that you ever produced. and the idea that won eioin — ever produced. and the idea that you eioin to— ever produced. and the idea that you claim to care— ever produced. and the idea that you claim to care about freedom . tot— you claim to care about freedom . tot tnen— you claim to care about freedom . tot tnen eit— you claim to care about freedom , but then sit there— you claim to care about freedom , but then sit there and try and oietote— , but then sit there and try and oietote wnot— , but then sit there and try and dictate what clothing, what enope— dictate what clothing, what enope ot— dictate what clothing, what shape of cloth— dictate what clothing, what shape of cloth someone can wear or shape of cloth someone can wear on wnot— shape of cloth someone can wear on wnot otnen— shape of cloth someone can wear or what other people in this county— or what other people in this county eon— or what other people in this country can celebrate as art tnot— country can celebrate as art tnot ion-t— country can celebrate as art that isn't freedom. that's twnonnw. — that isn't freedom. that's tyranny. jt1::t1“ 1“ it. 311; that isn't freedom. that's- tyranny. dominic, you are. you are waxing lyrical here. you sound very moralistic and quite frankly, deluded in my opinion. i'm not saying that sam smith should be arrested for being gross. i'm saying that sam smith is being gross and should be mindful about his behaviour. yeah. yes, it's a parent's responsibility . whether or not responsibility. whether or not they they take child to sam they they take a child to sam smith concert. but why does sam smith concert. but why does sam smith feel the need expose smith feel the need to expose himself in such a gross way? and

i think it denigrates his actual talent. as far as i'm concerned. ite— talent. as far as i'm concerned. we not— talent. as far as i'm concerned. we not onont— talent. as far as i'm concerned. it's not about need.— as far as i'm concerned. it's not about need. it's about tne— it's not about need. it's about tne toot— it's not about need. it's about the fact that— it's not about need. it's about the fact that people can do what tnew— the fact that people can do what tnew wont— the fact that people can do what tnew wontlo— the fact that people can do what they want. a free _ the fact that people can do what they want a free country. but they want in a free country. but took.— they want in a free country. but took. wow— they want in a free country. but took. you know.— they want in a free country. but look, you know, darren, what do you— look, you know, darren, what do wow-ot— look, you know, darren, what do wow-ottnne — look, you know, darren, what do you-of this? well,- look, you know, darren, what do you of this? �*ftt�*tz;4 you make of this? well, look, i saw video of a and i think it saw a video of a and i think it was outside one of concerts. was outside one of his concerts. there a little five year old there was a little five year old girl and her mother was saying, oh, loves you. she dances, oh, she loves you. she dances, she does of your dance she does all of your dance moves. i thought, moves. and i thought, for the love god, does the dance love of god, she does the dance moves because he's wearing next to he's gyrating and to nothing. he's gyrating and rubbing himself and all the rest of it. what happened this of it. what happened to this beautiful, british voice beautiful, angelic british voice , this lovely looking , this lovely, lovely looking bloke who, you know, back then, i think a fair few of us on this panel would probably have said was good looking. right. well, may i just explain to viewers at home what exactly he was looking like? if you haven't seen it? nen— like? if you haven't seen it? he's basically— like? if you haven't seen it? he's basically a— l , if you haven't seen it? he's basically a slightly owenweignt— he's basically a slightly overweight man who is a very popwion— overweight man who is a very popwton eingen. — overweight man who is a very popular singer. he was well ponooing— popular singer. he was well ponooing nn— popular singer. he was well parading his body on stage in a eponkiw— parading his body on stage in a eponkw tnong.— parading his body on stage in a eponkw tnong. i— parading his body on stage in a sparkly thong. i think fishnet, pennope— sparkly thong. i think fishnet, perhaps fishnet— sparkly thong. i think fishnet,

perhaps fishnet thigh high boots perhaps fishnet thigh hiin boots or perhaps fishnet thigh high boots on onkie— perhaps fishnet thigh high boots on onkie nign— perhaps fishnet thigh high boots or ankle high boots or whatever, iooking— or ankle high boots or whatever, tooking new— or ankle high boots or whatever, looking very provocative, doing very— looking very provocative, doing new weino— looking very provocative, doing very weird dance _ looking very provocative, doing very weird dance moves. looking very provocative, doing very weird dance moves . yes, you very weird dance moves. yes, you oonto— very weird dance moves. yes, you oonto ongwe— very weird dance moves. yes, you oonto ongwe ite— very weird dance moves. yes, you could argue it's kind of similar to iiiiew— could argue it's kind of similar to miley cyrus— could argue it's kind of similar to miley cyrus or— could argue it's kind of similar to miley cyrus or madonna or newonee— to miley cyrus or madonna or newonee in— to miley cyrus or madonna or beyonce in some— to miley cyrus or madonna or beyonce in some points in her kite.— beyonce in some points in her tite. not— beyonce in some points in her tite. not i— beyonce in some points in her life. but i think— beyonce in some points in her life. but i think the thing that onnon— life. but i think the thing that onnowe peopie— life. but i think the thing that annoys people is— life. but i think the thing that annoys people is sam smith has tott— annoys people is sam smith has on peopie— annoys people is sam smith has told people that— annoys people is sam smith has told people that they must call tin.— told people that they must call nin. inew— told people that they must call nin. they tnen— told people that they must call him. they them ._ told people that they must call him. they them . he says that he him. they them. he says that he is him. they them. he says that he in known— him. they them. he says that he in known tinow— him. they them. he says that he is known binary and as part of tnin— is known binary and as part of tnn wtoie— is known binary and as part of tnn note, i— is known binary and as part of this whole, i guess, exploration of this whole, i guess, exploration ot nn— this whole, i guess, exploration ot nn ne— this whole, i guess, exploration of his new identity, it does seem rather— of his new identity, it does seem rather over the top , seem rather over the top, ottention— seem rather over the top, attention seeking and perhaps a tittie— attention seeking and perhaps a iittie o— attention seeking and perhaps a little a little _ attention seeking and perhaps a little a little gross. but of course, we have the freedom to onoppnowe— course, we have the freedom to onoppnowe ono— course, we have the freedom to disapprove and he— course, we have the freedom to disapprove and he has the tneeoon— disapprove and he has the tneeoon to— disapprove and he has the freedom to do— disapprove and he has the freedom to do it. 1“ freedom to do it. i mean, look, sam smith has said that when they were a teenager, when they were at school, they wore what were at school, they wore what we consider clothes. we consider female clothes. so the it just the idea the idea that it just the idea that it popped up as a publicity stunt i think is unfair. no, i don't think that's unfair at all. i think it's very evident tnot— all. i think it's very evident tnot in— all. i think it's very evident that in today's— i think it's very evident that in today's society, the more gross you _ that in today's society, the more gross you can be, the more

pnope— more gross you can be, the more pnope wow-ii— more gross you can be, the more props you'u get— more gross you can be, the more props you'll get from the disgusting— props you'll get from the disgusting hollywood elite. but i disgusting hollywood elite. but iwowio— disgusting hollywood elite. but iwowit toot— disgusting hollywood elite. but i would just say— disgusting hollywood elite. but i would just say lastly, when peopie— i would just say lastly, when people mention— i would just say lastly, when people mention beyonce, madonna . iiiiew— people mention beyonce, madonna . miley own.— people mention beyonce, madonna . miley cwwe. i— people mention beyonce, madonna , miley cyrus, i don't— people mention beyonce, madonna , miley cyrus, i don't think tnot-e— , miley cyrus, i don't think tnot-e nignt— , miley cyrus, i don't think that's right either. and when peopie— that's right either. and when peopte now— that's right either. and when peopte now it— that's right either. and when people say it has be one or people say it has to be one or tne— people say it has to be one or tne otten— people say it has to be one or tne otnen. wow— people say it has to be one or the other, you know, not the other, you know, it's not int— the other, you know, it's not twet teeowee— the other, you know, it's not just because non—binary, just because he's non—binary, ite— just because he's non—binary, its—nen- just because he's non—binary, its—nen o- just because he's non—binary, it's—he's a man. it's not because he's a man. ite— it's not because he's a man. its-newne— it's not because he's a man. it's-because, you- it's not because he's a man. it's because, you know, he's it's not because, you know, he's not— it's not because, you know, he's not poniewionw— it's not because, you know, he's not particularly in— it's not because, you know, he's not particularly in shape. it's teeowee— not particularly in shape. it's teeowee ite— not particularly in shape. it's because it's gross. 1“ because it's just gross. i mean, kitte— because it's just gross. i mean, kitie tit— because it's just gross. i mean, albie did you ever celebrate these of artists you these kind of artists when you were of course i were a kid? yeah, of course i did. one of my favourite singers as was christina as a child was christina aguilera. me and my sisters were dropping we were dropping too dirty when we were in the early noughties. you know, were very doing know, we were very young doing that. can you give that. and i think, can you give us i won't do us a rendition? no, i won't do it now. the viewers won't want to see it. but. but the point is, dominique, i think there is something benjamin is something in what benjamin is saying freedom. freedom saying about freedom. freedom is about people to do about fighting for people to do things vehemently things that you vehemently disagree it is disagree with as much as it is to do with people that you really agree with and unfortunately, think it unfortunately, i think when it comes debates about sam comes to these debates about sam smith people who smith or other people who we disagree everyone says, disagree with, everyone says, oh, terrible he oh, it's terrible and he shouldn't it, let's ban shouldn't be doing it, let's ban it. that's freedom it. no, that's not what freedom is freedom is about

is about. freedom is about people being free to do what they please long as they please for as long as they're harming other they're not harming other people. and that's what i believe anyone's the believe in. anyone's on the ponei— believe in. anyone's on the ponei noe— believe in. anyone's on the panel has-said- believe in. anyone's on the panel has-said that- 1“ anyone's on the panel has said that they panel has yet said that they wowe— panel has yet said that they wowio-ton- would outright ban it. dominique,- would outright ban it. dominique, you would outright ban it. dominique,.you we dominique, do you think we ononto— dominique, do you think we enowio-i- dominique, do you think we should-i don't- dominique, do you think we should-i don't i. dominique, do you think we. should-i don't i don't should ban it? i don't i don't think we should ban it. but you do. i don't think do. you do. i don't think you do. you spend all your time- e you spend all your time pretending to te— spend all your time pretending to be outraged— spend all your time pretending to be outraged the way to be outraged about the way not— to be outraged about the way wot—kooks.- to be outraged about the way that_ looks, that l to be outraged about the way. that—looks, that it's that sam smith looks, that it's otteneiwe— that sam smith looks, that it's ottenniwe to — that sam smith looks, that it's offensive to kids.— that sam smith looks, that it's offensive to kids. i think it is. offensive to kids. i think it n-not— offensive to kids. i think it is.-not calling- offensive to kids. i think it is. not calling for is. that's not calling for a ton.— is. that's not calling for a ton. i— is. that's not calling for a ton. i ton-t— is. that's not calling for a ban. i don't know what is. e ban. i don't know what is. it is notw— ban. i don't know what is. it is neoiw oonoging— ban. i don't know what is. it is really damaging for a child to dnnkin really damaging for a child to drink in and see that sort of behaviour. no, it's they behaviour. no, it's yes, they they're gender behaviour. no, it's yes, they they're that gender behaviour. no, it's yes, they they're that child gender behaviour. no, it's yes, they they're that child willgender behaviour. no, it's yes, they they're that child will thentr identity that child will then think sort behaviour think that sort of behaviour that be who they want that they can be who they want to it's being who you want to be. it's being who you want to be. it's being who you want to it's not about being to be. it's not about being overtly sexual and wearing barely any clothing that is promoting very promoting an incorrect and very dangerous view of what one's self value is . one self value is self value is. one self value is not wearing your thigh high boots and dropping . that's boots and dropping. that's deluded. i'm sorry i help big wiping— 33: i'm sorry i help big man rubbing himself on a stage like man rubbing himself on a stage iike tnot— man rubbing himself on a stage iike tnot . — man rubbing himself on a stage iike tnot . i— man rubbing himself on a stage like that. i think— man rubbing himself on a stage like that . i think it's- man rubbing himself on a stage like that. e man rubbing himself on a stage like that . e tag like that. i think it's a cry for help because he's so

desperately trying to convince everyone else that he's, you know, he's happy he's this role model. and i think behind the scenes,-probably- : and i think behind the scenes, probably quite scenes, he's probably quite oepneeeeo. — scenes, he's probably quite depressed. t:1:1“ . depressed. i'm sorry. i don't think i don't think sam smith is trying to convince you of anything. smith anything. dominique. sam smith is someone who is living their life, comfortable in is someone who is living their life, body. comfortable in is someone who is living their life, body. (the zortable in is someone who is living their life, body. (the truthle in is someone who is living their life, body. (the truth is, n their body. and the truth is, let's be honest about this, that sam is is slightly larger sam is a is a slightly larger guy: sam is a is a slightly larger guy, larger person, that guy, not larger person, not that big. i'm a guy. but big. right. but i'm a guy. but yeah, by mistake you but you know what the if this was someone with a six someone with a man with a six pack, this was, you know, pack, if this was, you know, beyonce. pack, if this was, you know, beyonce . right. i don't think beyonce. right. i don't think you'd of the level you'd see any of the level of outrage. and don't think outrage. and i also don't think you'd it if it was you'd see it if it was a straight person. it's fat phobia and homophobia. i think it's trying to ram gender identity down of darren. how down the throats of darren. how is sam responsible for down the throats of darren. how is sam-responsible for one- : i 1“ how is sam responsible for one of is sam is responsible for one of the is sam is responsible for one of tne owono— is sam is responsible for one of the award ceremonies removing wnong— the award ceremonies removing wnong genoen— the award ceremonies removing wrong gender gendered award. . wrong gender gendered award. it was wrong gender gendered award. it ton— wrong gender gendered award. it ton tin — wrong gender gendered award. it was for him that_ wrong gender gendered award. it was for him that they— wrong gender gendered award. it was for him that they stopped doing female and male category, but that was happened. all the men won the spot, but that was a stupid decision in my opinion. on behalf of the organisers of the on behalf of the organisers of tne nnitnn— on behalf of the organisers of the british awards and the onnnon— the british awards and the grammys, not— the british awards and the grammys, not on sam smith. that

ononto— grammys, not on sam smith. that enowio nove— grammys, not on sam smith. that should have been— grammys, not on sam smith. that should have been a— grammys, not on sam smith. that should have been a request that tnew— should have been a request that they—responsibility. they denied this responsibility of they denied this responsibility ot—sonl they denied this responsibility. ot—son snitn of the organisers, not sam smith for of the organisers, not sam smith ton—wnen— of the organisers, not sam smith ton—wnen wow- of the organisers, not sam smith ton—wnen you go- of the organisers, not sam smith for when you go and for asking. and when you go and buy for asking. and when you go and bow o— for asking. and when you go and bow o nong— for asking. and when you go and bow o song. you— for asking. and when you go and buy a song, you don't get a onon— buy a song, you don't get a man's chart and— buy a song, you don't get a man's chart and a woman's chart enn— man's chart and a woman's chart eoen week. — man's chart and a woman's chart eoen week. vow— man's chart and a woman's chart each week. you know the kind of owneoo— each week. you know the kind of awards-eligible- each week. you know the kind of awards-eligible for,- awards that we're eligible for, iike—ot- awards that we're eligible for, iike—ot tne- like best presenter at the wotionoi— like best presenter at the. national-awards, national television awards, they oon-t— national television awards, they oon-t-o— national television awards, they oon-t-o-oon-t- don't have a they don't have a note— don't have a they don't have a note ono— don't have a they don't have a male and female— don't have a they don't have a male and female best presenter. t hey— male and female best presenter. inew-nowe— male and female best presenter. they-have best— male and female best presenter. they have best presenter they just have best presenter nnoteeeon— they just have best presenter professor. be. _ they just have best presenter professor-be. icare- they just have best presenter professor be. {$112 professor to be. i care about everyone. left wing, i'm everyone. i'm left wing, i'm woke you don't understand woke like, you don't understand the significance of the historical significance of having gendered categories. there were times where women in the music industry and otherwise weren't taken seriously, and that's it's still the case. that's why it's still the case. yeah, well , i that's why it's still the case. yeah, well, i mean, that's why it's still the case. yeah, well , i mean, there were yeah, well, i mean, there were no female british award winners. and the british there was no nnitnn— and the british there was no british female _ and the british there was no british female winner at the pint— british female winner at the nitii-itignt - british female winner at the brit-right so- british female winner at the brit right 1“t1:;”t1:; british female winner at the- brit-right so there you brit awards. right so there you go. brit awards. right so there you gong-wot— brit awards. right so there you go. just in generally, i'm go. and just in generally, i'm just that, by just worried by that, by propping people like sam propping up people like sam smith know, smith that that, you know, promote selfish view of, promote this selfish view of, you know, pleasure at any cost. you know i need to drop. i need to wear heels at any cost just because i need to be happy. i'm scared about the impact it has on children. well, speaking of nntonw— on children. well, speaking of nntonw-.— on children. well, speaking of nntonw-. nign- on children. well, speaking of history,-, high heels. history, lessons, high heels

wenon-t- history, lessons, high heels were-for men.- history, lessons, high heels were for men. they were invented for men. they weent— were invented for men. they weren't invented— were invented for men. they weren't invented for women. wett— weren't invented for women. weii. tn— weren't invented for women. weii. i-n ewe— weren't invented for women. well, i'm sure. so people can nign— well, i'm sure. so people can wear high heels— well, i'm sure. so people can wear high heels however they iike. — wear high heels however they iike. nook— wear high heels however they like. back in— wear high heels however they like. back in the— wear high heels however they like. f 1“ t:3 wear high heels however they like. f 1“ 03th like. back in the day, they weren't going around in thigh high stripper heels. well, i think have high stripper heels. well, i. think-have-better high stripper heels. well, i- think-have-better if think they'd have been better if new— think they'd have been better if tnew—wow— think they'd have been better if tnew—wow know.- think they'd have been better if they you know. right they were. but, you know. right itigtt— they were. but, you know. right itignt. inen— they were. but, you know. right right. then, emily, you seem to be right. then, emily, you seem to in in— right. then, emily, you seem to in in tne— right. then, emily, you seem to be in the middle— right. then, emily, you seem to be in the middle this. do you be in the middle of this. do you not-tnot— be in the middle of this. do you not-tnot itn— be in the middle of this. do you not that it's outrageous not think that it's outrageous to ston— not think that it's outrageous to start comparing to or to start comparing it to or sotonntee— to start comparing it to or satanists? oh,— to start comparing it to or satanists? oh, well , that's all satanists? oh, well, that's all got— satanists? oh, well, that's all got time— satanists? oh, well, that's all we've got time for on that one. ioten— we've got time for on that one. ioten in— we've got time for on that one. ioten in tne— we've got time for on that one. later in the show,— we've got time for on that one. later in the show, we're- we've got time for on that one. later in the show, we're going to hear from albie on racist dolls. and dominique will tell us why musk got it right us why elon musk got it right about bbc. but coming up about the bbc. but coming up next, it's the carver palava. i'll telling nhs pay i'll be telling you why nhs pay rises with the promise rises must come with the promise of reform. don't go away .

on on mark dolan tonight. in my big opinion, i'll be dealing- big opinion, i'll be dealing witn— big opinion, i'll be dealing witn iiegnon— big opinion, i'll be dealing with meghan markle, prince harry and with meghan markle, prince harry on tne— with meghan markle, prince harry and the world's— with meghan markle, prince harry and the world's most famous

pioetn— and the world's most famous pioetie potty— and the world's most famous plastic paddy pretend irishman joe nioen— plastic paddy pretend irishman joe nioen .— plastic paddy pretend irishman joe nioen . tw— plastic paddy pretend irishman joe biden . my three top pundits joe biden. my three top pundits tonignt— joe biden. my three top pundits tonignt notio— joe biden. my three top pundits tonight radio and— joe biden. my three top pundits tonight radio and tv legend potio— tonight radio and tv legend david hamilton— tonight radio and tv legend david hamilton . fearless and david hamilton. fearless and tentw— david hamilton. fearless and tentw angie— david hamilton. fearless and feisty angie best, who normally gen— feisty angie best, who normally gen we— feisty angie best, who normally gen we in— feisty angie best, who normally gets us in trouble.— feisty angie best, who normally gets us in trouble. and that tning— gets us in trouble. and that tning .— gets us in trouble. and that tning . o— gets us in trouble. and that rare thing , a young person with rare thing, a young person with eoneewotiwe— rare thing, a young person with conservative views. political onnnnenoottn— conservative views. political commentator alex grant. my mark meets— commentator alex grant. my mark neen guest— commentator alex grant. my mark neen guest in— commentator alex grant. my mark meets guest is legendary gonoenen— meets guest is legendary gardener and— meets guest is legendary gardener and grower of big wegetotiee— gardener and grower of big wegetotien .— gardener and grower of big vegetables , gerald stratford. vegetables, gerald stratford. vow— vegetables, gerald stratford. vow ononto— vegetables, gerald stratford. you should see— vegetables, gerald stratford. you should see his marrows. plus sundown— you should see his marrows. plus sonoown popen— you should see his marrows. plus sunday's papers hot off the peso — sunday's papers hot off the pen. wene— sunday's papers hot off the press. we're live— sunday's papers hot off the press. we're live from . press. we're live from. nine iweioonne— press. we're live from. nine iwelcome back— press. we're live from. nine l welcome back to - press. we're live from. nine . welcome back to the. press. we're live from. nine welcome back to the saturday press. we're live from. nine welcomyomck to the saturday press. we're live from. nine welcomyou ick to much aturday press. we're live from. nine welcomyou ick to much forrday five. thank you very much for your that was lively your company that was a lively start. it's safe to say start. i think it's safe to say to the show, thanks for all of your emails about tonight's topics. written and your emails about tonight's topi said, written and your emails about tonight's topi said, if written and your emails about tonight's topi said, if you written and your emails about tonight's topi said, if you lookten and your emails about tonight's topi said, if you look at and your emails about tonight's topi said, if you look at the and she said, if you look at the facts, you have to conclude that president trump was one of the best presidents that america has had. he was right about everything on china taxes,

climate . et cetera. during his climate. et cetera. during his presidency , america was presidency, america was prosperous and the world was peaceful . well, there we are. me peaceful. well, there we are. me and maggie are at one. now. let's crack on with our debate. up let's crack on with our debate. up next, it's emily's turn to face the music as she unveils her cover. palava. emily's going to tell us why she reckons the nhs needs huge reform and start the clock. yes , i think nhs pay the clock. yes, i think nhs pay noes— the clock. yes, i think nhs pay it— the clock. yes, i think nhs pay rises if they're _ the clock. yes, i think nhs pay rises if they're given,- ff yes, i think nhs pay rises if they're given, must witn— rises if they're given, must come with the— rises if they're given, must come with the promise of nhs nonnt— come with the promise of nhs nonnt i— come with the promise of nhs reform. i think— come with the promise of nhs reform. i think that's what potiente— reform. i think that's what patients deserve. i think that's oetinitew— patients deserve. i think that's definitely what— patients deserve. i think that's definitely what the taxpayer oeeewee— definitely what the taxpayer deserves and _ definitely what the taxpayer deserves and i— definitely what the taxpayer deserves and i also think that's wnot— deserves and i also think that's wnot wns— deserves and i also think that's what nhs staff— deserves and i also think that's what nhs staff themselves oeeenwe. — what nhs staff themselves oeeenwe. i— what nhs staff themselves deserve. i think if we've teonneo— deserve. i think if we've learned one— deserve. i think if we've learned one thing from the mass woikowte— learned one thing from the mass woikowte tnin— learned one thing from the mass walkouts this week's beside the fact walkouts this week's beside the toot tnot— walkouts this week's beside the fact that nhs— walkouts this week's beside the fact that nhs staff morale is at nook— fact that nhs staff morale is at nook bottom.— fact that nhs staff morale is at rock bottom, is— fact that nhs staff morale is at rock bottom, is that the nhs as a rock bottom, is that the nhs as o neoitn— rock bottom, is that the nhs as o neoitn oe— rock bottom, is that the nhs as a health care system is no iongen— a health care system is no iongen tit— a health care system is no longer fit for— a health care system is no longer fit for purpose. cj�*" longer fit for purpose. of course , bumper- longer fit for purpose. of course , bumper pay- longer fit for purpose. of course , bumper pay rises would course, bumper pay rises would for be great nhs staff who doesn't want a big fat pay rise

, but i think it would simply be a sticking plaster. we have a big a sticking plaster. we have a pig pnotten— a sticking plaster. we have a big problem with— a sticking plaster. we have a big problem with the- “g we have a big problem with the nhs on a gnono— big problem with the nhs on a gnono note— big problem with the nhs on a grand scale and— big problem with the nhs on a grand scale and i'm not just toiking— grand scale and i'm not just talking about— grand scale and i'm not just talking about the number of peopie— talking about the number of peopte wno— talking about the number of people who work for the health eenwiee — people who work for the health service which _ people who work for the health service which is— people who work for the health service which is over 1.3 niiiion. — service which is over 1.3 million. the— service which is over 1.3 million. the last time i eteekeoi— million. the last time i checked, i— million. the last time i checked, i think that we need to stop— checked, i think that we need to etop teing— checked, i think that we need to stop being little— checked, i think that we need to stop being little englanders. took— stop being little englanders. took out— stop being little englanders. took out to— stop being little englanders. look out to the— stop being little englanders. look out to the rest of the wont— look out to the rest of the wonio ono— look out to the rest of the world and see— look out to the rest of the world and see what else is on one. — world and see what else is on one. inene— world and see what else is on offer. there is— world and see what else is on offer. there is a— world and see what else is on offer. there is a reason that no noe— offer. there is a reason that no non eopieo— offer. there is a reason that no one has copied our— offer. there is a reason that no one has copied our health newne— one has copied our health eenwiee .— one has copied our health service . well,— one has copied our health service . well, there you go. who service. well, there you go. who ononto— service. well, there you go. who enowio i— service. well, there you go. who enowio i go— service. well, there you go. who should i go with— service. well, there you go. who should i go with first? i'll go witn— should i go with first? i'll go witn wow. — should i go with first? i'll go with you. dominic what do you tninke— with you. dominic what do you tninke po— with you. dominic what do you tninke to wow— with you. dominic what do you think? do you think pay rises inew-ne— think? do you think pay rises are. they're all— think? do you think pay rises are. they're all well and good stinking— are. they're all well and good sticking plaster.— are. they're all well and good sticking plaster. we can just sticking plaster. if we can just onont— sticking plaster. if we can just about afford— sticking plaster. if we can just about afford-a- sticking plaster. if we can just about afford a bump for about afford a bit of a bump for nurses and doctors,— about afford a bit of a bump for nurses and doctors, it seem nurses and doctors, it does seem iike— nurses and doctors, it does seem iike-oeeenwe— nurses and doctors, it does seem iike-oeeenwe o— nurses and doctors, it does seem like-deserve a bit- nurses and doctors, it does seem like-deserve a bit of- nurses and doctors, it does seem like deserve a bit of a pay like they deserve a bit of a pay not— like they deserve a bit of a pay not i— like they deserve a bit of a pay rise. but i think— like they deserve a bit of a pay rise. but i think the taxpayer oeeenwee— rise. but i think the taxpayer oenenwee ton— rise. but i think the taxpayer deserves for it— rise. but i think the taxpayer deserves for it to _ rise. but i think the taxpayer deserves for it to come with etninge— deserves for it to come with some strings attached. perhaps for some strings attached. perhaps ton-nton— some strings attached. perhaps ton-nton on— some strings attached. perhaps for-staff as well. - some strings attached. perhaps for staff as well. that for the staff as well. that oetwoiw— for the staff as well. that oetwoiw we— for the staff as well. that actually we get commitment from gowennnent— actually we get commitment from government that_ actually we get commitment from government that the will be government that the nhs will be netonneo— government that the nhs will be netonneo . — government that the nhs will be netonneo . i— government that the nhs will be reformed . i mean,— government that the nhs will be reformed . i mean, it- government that the nhs will be reformed . reformed. i mean, it just depends on what sort of commitment you're looking for from the because look, from the staff because look, i've heard both sides of the

debate and you know , the debate and you know, the narrative on sort of the rightward side of the debate is that these are marxists , these that these are marxists, these strikes are politically motivated, they're lazy . the nhs motivated, they're lazy. the nhs is a financial black hole. and look, i sympathise with some of that. but then at the same time, i think in this particular moment, our nurses and our doctors are, you know, some of the most important people in this country. and if they are coming out en masse and saying we are underpaid and we are overworked and we've been starved of the proper resources in order to do our jobs in order to do ourjobs correctly, i think that should be listened to. but then again, yes, at the same time the nhs is wasteful . i'm just not so sure wasteful. i'm just not so sure that the responsibility should be put on the staff more so than the government. no, i think it toen— the government. no, i think it toes nove— the government. no, i think it toes none to— the government. no, i think it does have to be— the government. no, i think it does have to be with- 3 no, i think it does have to be with the gowennnent— does have to be with the government and of course nhs nonogenent— government and of course nhs management need to work with the gowennnent— management need to work with the gowennnent it— management need to work with the government if there _ management need to work with the government if there is going to be government if there is going to toe-nope— government if there is going to toe-nope ot— government if there is going to be hope of substantial be any hope of any substantial nonnt— be any hope of any substantial reform, that's— be any hope of any substantial reform, that's for— be any hope of any substantial reform, that's for sure. but i

tnink— reform, that's for sure. but i tnink we— reform, that's for sure. but i think we could— reform, that's for sure. but i think we could go on ploughing pent-omin— think we could go on ploughing nenionin-go- think we could go on ploughing nentonin-go on- benjamin, we could go on piowgning— benjamin, we could go on ploughing millions ploughing billions, millions wnotewen— ploughing billions, millions . wnotewen—powing ploughing billions, millions- whatever_paying all whatever into the nhs paying all of whatever into the nhs paying all ot ow— whatever into the nhs paying all ot non— whatever into the nhs paying all of our gdp towards— whatever into the nhs paying all of our gdp towards the national neoitn— of our gdp towards the national health service.— of our gdp towards the national health service. and i do worry tnot— health service. and i do worry that fundamentally it is not fit for that fundamentally it is not fit ton pwpoee. — that fundamentally it is not fit for purpose. dates back to the 50 for purpose. dates back to the so eeeonno — for purpose. dates back to the 50 seconds. things have changed. we 50 seconds. things have changed. we need— 50 seconds. things have changed. we need to— 50 seconds. things have changed. we need to look— 50 seconds. things have changed. we need to look abroad and see wnot-e— we need to look abroad and see wnot-e wonking— we need to look abroad and see what's working better. 1“ what's working better. i mean, you— what's working better. i mean, wow-tne— what's working better. i mean, wow-tne us— what's working better. i mean, you the us system and you look at the us system and that costs considerably more as a of gdp than the a percentage of gdp than the british system does. the national health service. what about australian where about the australian one where all apparently are all the doctors apparently are going i mean , do you going fleeing? i mean, do you know what? if you were to roll back the clock to when there was a labour government, well, you had and nurses and nhs had doctors and nurses and nhs staff much their staff paid much better, their retention much higher , and the retention much higher, and the quality of health care was inflation during the labour government. why you government. well why don't you blame liz for that? that blame liz truss for that? that would fine to see because would be fine to see because blame the blame liz truss because the global sent global inflation crisis she sent the through ground the economy through the ground when power for just when she was in power forjust for liz truss, for the global inflation crisis. well we would labour better than labour run the nhs better than the look, i think the conservatives. look, i think if just look the key core

if you just look at the key core metrics for the nhs after the last labour government versus where now, it's where they are now, it's undeniable. aconservative where they are now, it's undeniable. a conservative i undeniable. as a conservative i will say the was in a better will say the nhs was in a better state in 2010 than it is in 2023, and it pains me to say that, but the economic situation of the country over the last 13 years is very different now than it was from 1997 to 2020. but on the point about reform, emily, lots of people talk about reform . what does reform actually mean ? well, take, for example, the kwetnoiion— ? well, take, for example, the australian model.— 7’ well, take, for example, the australian model. there's an inonw— australian model. there's an irony oetwoitw— australian model. there's an irony actually, that so many twnion— irony actually, that so many junior doctors— irony actually, that so many junior doctors who talk about now— junior doctors who talk about how fantastic— junior doctors who talk about how fantastic the nhs is are tieeing— how fantastic the nhs is are tieeing to— how fantastic the nhs is are tieeing to o— how fantastic the nhs is are fleeing to a more marketized nonet— fleeing to a more marketized nooei. inew— fleeing to a more marketized model. they have an insurance system— model. they have an insurance system .— model. they have an insurance system . eo— model. they have an insurance system , so everyone has medicare system, so everyone has medicare or system, so everyone has medicare on n— system, so everyone has medicare on n wnot— system, so everyone has medicare on n wnot tnew— system, so everyone has medicare or is what they call— system, so everyone has medicare or is what they call it, eeowne— or is what they call it, everyone has- or is what they call it, everyone has that and then you top— everyone has that and then you top it— everyone has that and then you top it up— everyone has that and then you can top it up with— everyone has that and then you can top it up with private neoitn— can top it up with private health insurance. and it means tnot— health insurance. and it means tnot tnenen— health insurance. and it means that there's competing service pines.— that there's competing service pnieee. wnton— that there's competing service prices, which raises the etonoono— prices, which raises the etonoono .— prices, which raises the standard . and for many people in standard. and for many people in this standard. and for many people in tnn eowntw— standard. and for many people in this country now,— standard. and for many people in this country now, they cannot get— this country now, they cannot get o— this country now, they cannot get o en — this country now, they cannot get a gp appointment. this country now, they cannot get a gp appointment . and it's get a gp appointment. and it's so get a gp appointment. and it's no tinnit— get a gp appointment. and it's so difficult. they— get a gp appointment. and it's so difficult. they waiting weon— so difficult. they waiting years, months- so difficult. they waiting years, months even years for

toen— years, months even years for basic procedures— years, months even years for basic procedures . others, it basic procedures. others, it notw— basic procedures. others, it neoiw n— basic procedures. others, it neotw n ite— basic procedures. others, it really is it's outrageous, oetwoiw— really is it's outrageous, actually how— really is it's outrageous, actually how badly the nhs is ietting— actually how badly the nhs is ietting we— actually how badly the nhs is letting us down.— actually how badly the nhs is letting us down. and that's not to now— letting us down. and that's not to now innion— letting us down. and that's not to say junior doctors and nurses are to say junior doctors and nurses not— to say junior doctors and nurses not going— to say junior doctors and nurses are not doing their— to say junior doctors and nurses are not doing their hard work. seeningiw— are not doing their hard work. seeningw. tne— are not doing their hard work. seemingly, the conditions are oppoiting— seemingly, the conditions are oppoiting ot— seemingly, the conditions are appalling at the— seemingly, the conditions are appalling at the moment for tnen. — appalling at the moment for tnen. not— appalling at the moment for them. but don't— appalling at the moment for them. but don't you think, ponnn— them. but don't you think, ponnn it— them. but don't you think, darren, it is— them. but don't you think, darren, it is time to step back . ite— darren, it is time to step back . its time— darren, it is time to step back . it's time for— darren, it is time to step back . it's time for rishi sunak to putt— . it's time for rishi sunak to putt nn— . it's time for rishi sunak to pull his socks— . it's time for rishi sunak to pull his socks up- . it's time for rishi sunak to pull his socks up actually, and say,— pull his socks up actually, and now. wow— pull his socks up actually, and now. you know— pull his socks up actually, and say, you know what, radical netonne — say, you know what, radical reform? well,— say, you know what, radical reform? well, i'll- say, you know what, radical reform? �*ftt�*tz;4 4 reform? well, i'll tell you what, emily. it's not often that i often say point to the european union and say there are some models there that we should copy, but there are systems around europe have much better health care outcomes than we do here in britain. and actually, they're often spending less than we are here in britain. and you've got to ask yourself what fundamentally why do you have a health care service ? to me, you health care service? to me, you have a health care service to keep people alive, something as fundamental as that. we're not very that in the nhs and very good at that in the nhs and that criticise the hard that isn't to criticise the hard work and staff who are. don't doubt to work hard , frankly. but

doubt to work hard, frankly. but when other countries, comparable countries , as i say, spend less countries, as i say, spend less per head are getting better health care outcomes . and to health care outcomes. and to stress that point , that means stress that point, that means keeping can i just save ? keeping can i just save? there's a massive elephant in tnin— there's a massive elephant in tnn nonn— there's a massive elephant in this room and— there's a massive elephant in this room and that's the demographics- this room and that's the demographics of this country , demographics of this country, nignte— demographics of this country, nignte we— demographics of this country, right? we have— demographics of this country, right? we have a— demographics of this country, right? we have a rapidly ineneoeing— right? we have a rapidly increasing proportion of the popwtotion— increasing proportion of the population who— increasing proportion of the population who are elderly. neopie— population who are elderly. iteopte iike— population who are elderly. people live longer than before, ono— people live longer than before, one tnot— people live longer than before, one tnot n— people live longer than before, and that is causing us to have so, and that is causing us to have wow— and that is causing us to have you know.— and that is causing us to have so, you know, roll— and that is causing us to have so, you know, roll back the eioek— so, you know, roll back the etoek o— so, you know, roll back the etoek o tew— so, you know, roll back the clock a few decades and people wonki— clock a few decades and people wowio nove— clock a few decades and people would have far— clock a few decades and people would have far fewer ailments teeowee— would have far fewer ailments teeowee tnew— would have far fewer ailments because they would die at maybe 70 because they would die at maybe to weon— because they would die at maybe to weon oto. — because they would die at maybe 70 years old. but— because they would die at maybe 70 years old. but now you have all 70 years old. but now you have oti tneee— 70 years old. but now you have all these people,— 70 years old. but now you have all these people, millions of peopie— all these people, millions of peopte wno— all these people, millions of people who will— all these people, millions of people who will get a number of nooenotew— people who will get a number of moderately serious— people who will get a number of moderately serious conditions teeowee— moderately serious conditions teeowee tnew— moderately serious conditions because they will keep living untit— because they will keep living unit—no.- because they will keep living unit—no. 90] because they will keep living. until—85, 90, 95 until maybe they're 85, 90, 95 weon— until maybe they're 85, 90, 95 weon oto. — until maybe they're 85, 90, 95 weon oto. kno— until maybe they're 85, 90, 95 years old. and that is putting a etnoin— years old. and that is putting a etnoin on— years old. and that is putting a etnoin on tne— years old. and that is putting a strain on the nhs.— years old. and that is putting a strain on the nhs. so what ononto— strain on the nhs. so what enowio we— strain on the nhs. so what should we do— strain on the nhs. so what should we do about this? we ononto— should we do about this? we should have— should we do about this? we should have more immigrants. inot-e— should have more immigrants. that's-should- should have more immigrants. that's should have. that's what you should have. inot-e— that's what you should have. inot-e why— that's what you should have. inotn why we — that's what you should have. that's why we need not only to non— that's why we need not only to tnoin non— that's why we need not only to train more people— that's why we need not only to train more people our own, train more people of our own, not— train more people of our own, tot-need— train more people of our own, tot-need to— train more people of our own, but-need to be- train more people of our own, but need to be doctors and but they need to be doctors and nurses-also need- but they need to be doctors and nurses. also need to nurses. but we also need to wing— nurses. but we also need to tning-neon.— nurses. but we also need to bring.bear..also- nurses. but we also need to bring bear. also need to bring to bear. we also need to wing— bring to bear. we also need to tning-peopie— bring to bear. we also need to tning-peopie in- bring to bear. we also need to

bring people in because bring more people in because our wonktone— bring more people in because our wonktone oge— bring more people in because our workforce age-too— bring more people in because our workforce age too small and workforce age is too small and we-eo— workforce age is too small and we-eo nonw— workforce age is too small and we so many pensioners. why we have so many pensioners. why is we have so many pensioners. why in tne— we have so many pensioners. why is the solution— we have so many pensioners. why is the solution-you?- we have so many pensioners. why is the solution -you? - is the solution with you? poppie— is the solution with you? neopte-to- is the solution with you? i people-to artificially people always to artificially increase size the increase the size of the population more immigrants population with more immigrants , sustain. can i , but we need to sustain. can i just say, dominique,— , but we need to sustain. can i just say, dominique, that- : 1“ can i just say, dominique, that is an unsustainable. _ just say, dominique, that is an unsustainable. g just say, dominique, that is an unsustainable. 31“g unsustainable. hang on, let me finish. country. and it's finish. run a country. and it's something would something that would rely dominique on cohesion. isaid dominique on on cohesion. i said we need to sustain the- ji1::i1“ 1“ t:.t1:1; 1:1“ 1“ f 17“ i said we need to sustain the level ji1::i1“ 1“ t:.t1:1; 17“ 17“ f 17“ i said we need to sustain the level of tne— we need to sustain the level of tne popwiotion— we need to sustain the level of the population and the problem is, the population and the problem in. n— the population and the problem in. n tnot— the population and the problem is, is that without— the population and the problem is, is that without immigration , because brits— is, is that without immigration , because brits aren't having enowgn— , because brits aren't having enowgn-tne- , because brits aren't having enough the population enough children, the population wonkt— enough children, the population would-declining,— enough children, the population would declining, which would would be declining, which would eoponion— would be declining, which would. companions _would companions grown by which would nitiion— companions grown by which would million immigration. million because of immigration. if i million because of immigration. it i eon— million because of immigration. if i can-finish— million because of immigration. if i can-finish my- million because of immigration. if i can finish my point, if i can just finiin my point, if if i can just finish my point, it tne— if i can just finish my point, if the population was shrinking, it-eonpowno— if the population was shrinking, it-compound all- if the population was shrinking, it compound all of the it would compound all of the economic problems that we're seeing— economic problems that we're seeing-wis- economic problems that we're seeing-wns ot- economic problems that we're seeing nhs at the seeing with the nhs at the nnonnent — seeing with the nhs at the nnonnent not- seeing with the nhs at the moment. -of the- seeing with the nhs at the moment. of the fundamental moment. one of the fundamental pnotiene— moment. one of the fundamental problems-country- moment. one of the fundamental problems-country is- problems with this country is tnot— problems with this country is tnot-onen-t— problems with this country is that aren't enough people problems with this country is th.work aren't enough people problems with this country is th.work in aren't enough people problems with this country is th.work in thei't enough people problems with this country is th.work in the healthigh people problems with this country is th.work in the health service3le problems with this country is th.work in the health service to to work in the health service to pay— to work in the health service to pow enowgn— to work in the health service to pow enowgn token— to work in the health service to pay enough taxes to pay for this intioteo— pay enough taxes to pay for this inflated -that_ pay enough taxes to pay for this inflated -that the— pay enough taxes to pay for this inflated that the nhs is. inflated bill that the nhs is. in— inflated bill that the nhs is. i-n-oetwoiiw- inflated bill that the nhs is. i'm actually, because i'm confused actually, because the i'm confused actually, because tne-empiowe— i'm confused actually, because the employs boys. ”3 1“g the nhs employs boys. according to tie— the nhs employs boys. according to tie ens.— the nhs employs boys. according to the ons, 1.3 million people. to the ons,1.3 million people. i think there needs to be some rearranging at the very least of where those people are deployed.

yeah, because i tell you what, our viewers at— yeah, because i tell you what, our viewers at home, they can get— our viewers at home, they can get noto— our viewers at home, they can get too ot— our viewers at home, they can get noio ot o— our viewers at home, they can get hold of a diversity and ineiweion— get hold of a diversity and inclusion manager in the nhs, but inclusion manager in the nhs, tot not— inclusion manager in the nhs, but notldoctor._ inclusion manager in the nhs, but not doctor. and that's a but not a doctor. and that's a women.— but not a doctor. and that's a pnotien. inn-t— but not a doctor. and that's a problem, isn't it?— but not a doctor. and that's a problem, isn't it? right. people ono— problem, isn't it? right. people and—screaming. . problem, isn't it? right. peoplei and—screaming. do and viewers are screaming. do you— and viewers are screaming. do wow-tne— and viewers are screaming. do wow-tne nwnnetn- and viewers are screaming. do you-the number for- and viewers are screaming. do you _the number for a. you know the number for a diversity inclusion officer? it's is it ? you diversity inclusion officer? it's is it? you can go it's not 999, is it? you can go to a it's not 999, is it? you can go to o noepitoi— it's not 999, is it? you can go to a hospital and— e jjj fl you can go to a hospital and they'll be how wonkt— to a hospital and they'll be how wowio wow— to a hospital and they'll be how wowto you get— to a hospital and they'll be how would you get in— to a hospital and they'll be how would you get in touch with an wns— would you get in touch with an wns oiwenitw— would you get in touch with an nhs diversity local nhs diversity your local noepitoi— nhs diversity your local hospital—onej nhs diversity your local hospital—one one hospital you'll hear one get one tnene. — hospital you'll hear one get one tnene. conne— hospital you'll hear one get one there. come on. _ hospital you'll hear one get one there. 17“ ji3”i1:; 1“ hospital you'll hear one get one there. 17“ j 1“ ? g1“ hospital you'll hear one get one there. 17“ j 1“ 3 g“ there. come on. darren. right. one up. let us know— there. come on. darren. right. one up. let us know what- there. 17“ j 1“ 3 g“ one up. let us know what please do one up. let us know what please to . — one up. let us know what please to . iet— one up. let us know what please to . iet wo— one up. let us know what please do . let us know.— one up. let us know what please do . let us know. oh- one up. let us know what please do . l.3 cj“ 4 one up. let us know what please do . l.3 4 : do. let us know. oh still ahead , dominique is going to give us her take on elon musk's row with the bbc . but her take on elon musk's row with the bbc. but coming up, it's kitte— the bbc. but coming up, it's kitie. nen— the bbc. but coming up, it's albie. he's going— the bbc. but coming up, it's albie. he's going to- but coming up, it's albie. he's going to tell us why he albie. he's going to tell us why ne tninke— albie. he's going to tell us why he thinks sean— albie. he's going to tell us why he thinks sean racist dolls in poin— he thinks sean racist dolls in pots in— he thinks sean racist dolls in pubs is unacceptable. well, oon-t— pubs is unacceptable. well, oon-t go— pubs is unacceptable. well, don't go anywhere .

welcome back to the saturday tine.— welcome back to the saturday tiwe. some— welcome back to the saturday five. some lively— welcome back to the saturday five. some lively debates so far . tn— five. some lively debates so far . i'm sure you'll— five. some lively debates so far . i'm sure you'll agree. please do . i'm sure you'll agree. please to keep— . i'm sure you'll agree. please to keep wow— . i'm sure you'll agree. please do keep your views coming in gb viewe— do keep your views coming in gb views ot— do keep your views coming in gb views at gbnews.uk and we'll get to tnen— views at gbnews.uk and we'll get to tnen — views at gbnews.uk and we'll get to them soon. helen's written in ono— to them soon. helen's written in one one— to them soon. helen's written in one one owe.— to them soon. helen's written in and she says, sorry,— to them soon. helen's written in and she says, sorry, benjamin , i and she says, sorry, benjamin, i oon-t— and she says, sorry, benjamin, i oon-t ogee— and she says, sorry, benjamin, i don't agree. sam— and she says, sorry, benjamin, i don't agree. sam smith can be a tnew— don't agree. sam smith can be a tnew tnen— don't agree. sam smith can be a tnew tnen ono— don't agree. sam smith can be a they them and identify as noeve— they them and identify as whoever he _ they them and identify as whoever he they them wants. but nen— whoever he they them wants. but nen not— whoever he they them wants. but nen not o— whoever he they them wants. but nen not o note— whoever he they them wants. but he's not a role model at all. kno— he's not a role model at all. ant i— he's not a role model at all. ant i wonkt— he's not a role model at all. and i would not— he's not a role model at all. and i would not want my children to see— and i would not want my children to nin — and i would not want my children to see him dressed— and i would not want my children to see him dressed in the ongweting— to see him dressed in the disgusting way- to see him dressed in the disgusting way he dresses on etoge— disgusting way he dresses on etoge. ite— disgusting way he dresses on etoge. itntwet— disgusting way he dresses on stage. it's just grotesque . and stage. it's just grotesque. and he stage. it's just grotesque. and ne kooks— stage. it's just grotesque. and he looks frightful, quite tnonkiv— he looks frightful, quite tnonkiv .— he looks frightful, quite frankly . well, there we are. she frankly. well, there we are. she oion-t— frankly. well, there we are. she oion-t noto— frankly. well, there we are. she didn't hold back.— frankly. well, there we are. she didn't hold back. _ frankly. well, there we are. she didn't hold back. is that about my outfit or sam's? anyway, let's move on— my outfit or sam's? anyway, let's move on to— my outfit or sam's? anyway, let's move on to our- e 37 anyway, let's move on to our next topic up next.— let's move on to our next topic up next. ite— let's move on to our next topic up next. it's albie— let's move on to our next topic up next. it's albie argument, ono— up next. it's albie argument, on kitte— up next. it's albie argument, on kitie n— up next. it's albie argument, and albie is going to make his ton— and albie is going to make his ton wnv— and albie is going to make his case for why it's— and albie is going to make his case for why it's unacceptable to oieptov— case for why it's unacceptable to display racist— case for why it's unacceptable to display racist dolls in pubs, eton— to display racist dolls in pubs, nton tne— to display racist dolls in pubs, start the clock— to display racist dolls in pubs, start the clock back. : to display racist dolls in pubs, start the clock back. . 20:75 start the clock back. it's 2023 ono— start the clock back. it's 2023 wt in— start the clock back. it's 2023 and i'm about to tell you why it's unacceptable to display in

pubs. it's unacceptable to display in pubs . a is a racist caricature pubs. a is a racist caricature of a black person. if we can get an image of a for our wonderful viewers, that will really help. so if you display one of these dolls in your home, in your pub, in your place of work , in your place of work, essentially what you're saying is black people, you're not welcome . it comes from a welcome. it comes from a mentality that thinks that black people , skin lips, hair is so people, skin lips, hair is so strange that it warrants taking the mick out of. now i was disappointed with the home secretary's intervention earlier on this week. whilst i agree , it on this week. whilst i agree, it does seem like a strange use of police resources to send five officers to a pub to go and remove some what she didn't say was that it's completely unacceptable . in britain, the unacceptable. in britain, the world's leading multi racial democracy to display dolls. and besides , shouldn't the home besides, shouldn't the home secretary have better things to do? stopping the boats? perhaps well, so . so, darren, i'm

well, so. so, darren, i'm interested in your opinion here because 48% of the public actually disagree with me. they think it's completely fine for dolls to be displayed. am i just being a snowflake? we've just got a picture on the screen there for our radio listeners of one of the dolls themselves . one of the dolls themselves. look, i don't think look, albie, i don't think vow-n— look, albie, i don't think vow-n o— look, albie, i don't think you're a snowflake. think you're a snowflake. i think vow-n— you're a snowflake. i think you're-entitled. you're a snowflake. i think you're entitled to you're perfectly entitled to wow— you're perfectly entitled to wow — you're perfectly entitled to your own view— you're perfectly entitled to your own view on that to and say not— your own view on that to and say tnot vow— your own view on that to and say that you wouldn't— your own view on that to and say that you wouldn't use a pub like tnot— that you wouldn't use a pub like tnotlonv— that you wouldn't use a pub like that-any premises— that you wouldn't use a pub like that any premises that that or any premises that onpiove— that or any premises that displays these- that or any premises that displays these things on in tnein— displays these things on in their establishment, i think tnot-e— their establishment, i think tnot-e o— their establishment, i think that's a perfectly valid view. out— that's a perfectly valid view. out wnot— that's a perfectly valid view. out wnot i— that's a perfectly valid view. but what i would say is i think six but what i would say is i think eik onnen— but what i would say is i think six officers going— but what i would say is i think six officers going into a and vow-ve— six officers going into a and vow-ve ooto— six officers going into a and you've said that_ six officers going into a and you've said that you don't think it wo— you've said that you don't think it was proportionate. i couldn't ognee— it was proportionate. i couldn't agree more with— it was proportionate. i couldn't agree more with that. six onnen— agree more with that. six officers that_ agree more with that. six officers that maybe won't show up to— officers that maybe won't show up to o— officers that maybe won't show up to o twgtonw— officers that maybe won't show up to a burglary, but will show up to a burglary, but will show up to— up to a burglary, but will show up to toke— up to a burglary, but will show up to toke owov— up to a burglary, but will show up to take away some dolls that someone in apparently one eonpioint— someone in apparently one eonpioint. i— someone in apparently one complaint. i could be wrong has noto— complaint. i could be wrong has eoio ite— complaint. i could be wrong has said it's offensive.— complaint. i could be wrong has said it's offensive. so therefore— said it's offensive. so therefore ,_ said it's offensive. so therefore , they've pulled that therefore, they've pulled that out. — therefore, they've pulled that out. so — therefore, they've pulled that out. so nonv— therefore, they've pulled that out. so many viewers albie are saving— out. so many viewers albie are eoving it— out. so many viewers albie are eoving it tooke— out. so many viewers albie are saying it looks to— out. so many viewers albie are saying it looks to me like the poine— saying it looks to me like the poiioe oone— saying it looks to me like the police care more— saying it looks to me like the police care more about hurt teeiingo— police care more about hurt feelings than— police care more about hurt feelings than they do about ootwoitv— feelings than they do about actually solving crime. and that

inoteot— actually solving crime. and that inoteoo ot— actually solving crime. and that instead of actually policing the wings— instead of actually policing the tningo tnot— instead of actually policing the things that matter to everybody . pooi — things that matter to everybody . pooi tnev-ne— things that matter to everybody . dodi they're focusing on dolls . kno— . dodi they're focusing on dolls . no i— . dodi they're focusing on dolls . and i completely- . dodi they're focusing on dolls . and i completely understand that point, darren. but i suppose the converse argument would be i think there was a concern that the 1988 malicious communications act had been broken and if a law has been broken, then it's the police's job to investigate that. but benjamin, i'm interested to know your opinion because is there a free speech argument here? in a free speech argument here? in a free society, should people allow should people be allowed to be racist ? well, free speech to be racist? well, free speech doesn't include being racist or homophobic . doesn't include being racist or homophobic. right? we doesn't include being racist or homophobic . right? we accepted homophobic. right? we accepted that boundary a long time ago. and what that means and the reason that matters is because it's the distinction between you being able to say what you like, but you being able to say something that diminishes someone else's existence and someone else's existence and someone else's existence and someone else's ability to lead their life freely. now, as i understand it from news reports, this pub has tried to find a way around this question by putting around this question by putting a notice on the door, saying about the display of these

blackface dolls and say if you're offended , then it's your you're offended, then it's your choice not to come in. well as far as i'm concerned, the message that truly sends is if you're a black person, don't come here. completely agree come in here. i completely agree with dominic, i'm with you. but dominic, i'm interested know how would interested to know how would you feel if you to a pub and feel if you went to a pub and you saw dolls hanging from you saw some dolls hanging from the ceiling? i would feel uncomfortable.- the ceiling? i would feel uncomfortable. across uncomfortable. i've come across totin— uncomfortable. i've come across toin intone— uncomfortable. i've come across dolls before and— uncomfortable. i've come across dolls before and they've made me feel uncomfortable. _ dolls before and they've made me feel uncomfortable. i think as a pink— feel uncomfortable. i think as a tiook penon — feel uncomfortable. i think as a black person. and— feel uncomfortable. i think as a black person. and to , not you black person. and to, not you know.— black person. and to, not you know. oont— black person. and to, not you know. not ot— black person. and to, not you know, sort of segregate on the noon— know, sort of segregate on the noon ot— know, sort of segregate on the noon ot skin— know, sort of segregate on the basis of skin colour, i'm the ot— basis of skin colour, i'm the ot tne— basis of skin colour, i'm the one of the people that speaks out ogoinot— one of the people that speaks out against these— one of the people that speaks out against these sorts of wings.— out against these sorts of tninge. not— out against these sorts of tninge. not i— out against these sorts of things. but i think you are things. but i think if you are a pink— things. but i think if you are a tiook penon— things. but i think if you are a black person, you— things. but i think if you are a black person, you can see vowneit— black person, you can see vowneit in— black person, you can see yourself in that- black person, you can see yourself in that doll and how it's intended— yourself in that doll and how it's intended to— yourself in that doll and how it's intended to represent you. so it's intended to represent you. so-know— it's intended to represent you. so-know .— it's intended to represent you. so-know . vow— it's intended to represent you. so know , you know, overly so you know, you know, overly eooggenote— so you know, you know, overly eooggenote .— so you know, you know, overly exaggerate , stated large pink exaggerate, stated large pink tips— exaggerate, stated large pink tipo .— exaggerate, stated large pink tipe . kooks.— exaggerate, stated large pink iipe . koks. vow— exaggerate, stated large pink lips , acas, you know, big white lips, acas, you know, big white teetn — lips, acas, you know, big white teetn notw— lips, acas, you know, big white teeth, really black— lips, acas, you know, big white teeth, really black skin and otno— teeth, really black skin and otno .— teeth, really black skin and otno . so— teeth, really black skin and afro . so these— teeth, really black skin and afro . so these are some of the afro. so these are some of the representations— afro. so these are some of the representations of— afro. so these are some of the representations of black people tnot— representations of black people tnot wee— representations of black people that were used— representations of black people that were used in— representations of black people that were used in things like ninotnei— that were used in things like minstrel shows. _ that were used in things like minstrel shows. that is how tiook— minstrel shows. that is how tiook peopie— minstrel shows. that is how black people were represented. kno— black people were represented. ant it— black people were represented. ant it wo— black people were represented. and it was used— black people were represented. and it was used to demean them. wow— and it was used to demean them. now one— and it was used to demean them. now peopie— and it was used to demean them. now some people do not attribute

tnooe— now some people do not attribute tnooe negotive— now some people do not attribute those negative characteristics teoowe— those negative characteristics teoowe tnev— those negative characteristics because they may have had those totin— because they may have had those toin oo— because they may have had those toin on o— because they may have had those dolls as a child— because they may have had those dolls as a child and— because they may have had those dolls as a child and they didn't onvtning— dolls as a child and they didn't see anything negative about tnen.— see anything negative about tnen. not— see anything negative about tnen. not i— see anything negative about them. but i think it's naive to oeponote— them. but i think it's naive to eeponote tne— them. but i think it's naive to separate the negative and racist intention— separate the negative and racist intention ot— separate the negative and racist intention of them— separate the negative and racist intention of them from the ootwoi— intention of them from the actual doll. _ intention of them from the actual doll. emily carver do you tnink— actual doll. emily carver do you tnink tnot— actual doll. emily carver do you tnink tnot it— actual doll. emily carver do you think that if the— actual doll. emily carver do you think that if the pub was oieptoving— think that if the pub was displaying anti—semitic imagery that displaying anti—semitic imagery tnotwe-o— displaying anti—semitic imagery that we'd even— displaying anti—semitic imagery that we'd even be— displaying anti—semitic imagery that we'd even be having a oetote— that we'd even be having a debate about— that we'd even be having a debate about whether or not it was acceptable? _ debate about whether or not it was acceptable? e was acceptable? i think it's very difficult because i'm obviously not black, so i don't know how i would feel going into a pub where there were these dolls if i were. i also accept that some people believe them to be something of nostalgia, something they to play something they used to play with, something never with, something that they never even second to even gave a second thought to about racist. but we are about being racist. but we are in 2023 and attitudes have changed and these things are well known to be racist and something that people black people don't like, which is fair enough. but i do think that this shouldn't be a criminal matter. i do not think it is a criminal matter. if it is the law should

not be reaching that far into people's private property because pubs are private property. no, they're not people who own them and run them. i would agree with that, think. would agree with that, i think. but think it's you know, but i do think it's you know, there's been stories time and time again about you tory time again about you know, tory councillors being sacked for posing them . a councillor posing with them. a councillor said they weren't racist because they've got smiley little faces. et cetera. et cetera . anyway, et cetera. et cetera. anyway, come it comes back and back a time again, anyway. still ahead tonight , it time again, anyway. still ahead tonight, it will dominique tonight, it will be dominique and be telling why and she'll be telling us why elon has exposed the elon musk has exposed the failings of the bbc. not sure benjamin agree with that benjamin will agree with that one, find out in one, but we will find out in just one moment.

welcome back to the saturday five. so let's hear what your

wonderful viewers have been saying about tonight's topics. derek says have just returned from several weeks in tenerife . from several weeks in tenerife. nice talking to the locals and brits who have decided to relocate. there clear that relocate. there is clear that the equivalent to our the tenerife equivalent to our nhs on a with our private nhs is on a par with our private health care providers. so there's something there's clearly something wrong here we are supposed here in the uk. we are supposed to be the or sixth richest to be the fifth or sixth richest country in the world. this is true. we do seem to be having a third world health service . third world health service. indeed. now for our final denote.— indeed. now for our final debate. it's— indeed. now for our final debate. it's none- 33 now for our final debate. it's none other than poninigwe— debate. it's none other than dominique samuels, and she's going— dominique samuels, and she's going to— dominique samuels, and she's going to tekt— dominique samuels, and she's going to teti wo— dominique samuels, and she's going to tell us why elon musk noo— going to tell us why elon musk non epoe— going to tell us why elon musk has expose the— going to tell us why elon musk has expose the failings of the neo— has expose the failings of the nno .— has expose the failings of the nno . net-o— has expose the failings of the bbc . let's start— has expose the failings of the bbc . let's start the clock this bbc. let's start the clock this week. — bbc. let's start the clock this week. ite— bbc. let's start the clock this week. the bbc— bbc. let's start the clock this week. the bbc were- bbc. let's start the clock this week. 3 3 week. the bbc were humiliated yet again , as if they're not yet again, as if they're not employing disinformation specialists. they're squandering a golden chance to interview one of the most interesting people in the world right now . elon in the world right now. elon musk is pioneering space exploration, a new car technology . he recently bought technology. he recently bought twitter and exposed the collusion between big tech and the american government, censoring information on covid

19. and even the hunter biden laptop story, which may have swayed the outcome of the 2020 presidential election with a bbc interview interested in asking any of those questions? oh no. they were more interested in pushing a narrative about so—called hate speech growing on the platform . i'm the journalist the platform. i'm the journalist in question. couldn't give a single example of this so—called hate speech. this is just yet onotnen— hate speech. this is just yet another example— hate speech. this is just yet another example of- f this is just yet another example of how the bbc is another example of how the bbc in toiiing— another example of how the bbc in toiiing tne— another example of how the bbc is failing the british people. we pay— is failing the british people. we pay handsomely to be unbiased and we pay handsomely to be unbiased ono ooowote— we pay handsomely to be unbiased and accurate, and— we pay handsomely to be unbiased and accurate, and it— we pay handsomely to be unbiased and accurate, and it fails to do tnot. — and accurate, and it fails to do even that. it's— and accurate, and it fails to do even that. it's time- and accurate, and it fails to do even that. e e ff even that. it's time to accept that the bbc isn't good value for money. so who will disagree with me the most? i think it's you. yeah. no, i think evenvtning— you. yeah. no, i think everything you- / no, i think everything you said was wrong. on ktikus— everything you said was wrong. on ktikus .— everything you said was wrong. oh aukus . look,— everything you said was wrong. oh aukus . look, you know, the oh aukus. look, you know, the tnwtn — oh aukus. look, you know, the tnwtn n— oh aukus. look, you know, the tnwtn n tnot— oh aukus. look, you know, the truth is that the— oh aukus. look, you know, the truth is that the bbc has a far nignen— truth is that the bbc has a far higher standard— truth is that the bbc has a far higher standard of accurate kwooi — higher standard of accurate kwooi ono— higher standard of accurate kwasi and impartiality than iwitten— kwasi and impartiality than twitter does. _ kwasi and impartiality than twitter does. and i think elon tink—

twitter does. and i think elon musk couldn't— twitter does. and i think elon musk couldn't give a about free opeeon. — musk couldn't give a about free epeeon. kit— musk couldn't give a about free epeeon. kit ne— musk couldn't give a about free speech. all he wants is every toot— speech. all he wants is every last billion _ speech. all he wants is every last billion dollar he can get his last billion dollar he can get into nonto— last billion dollar he can get his hands on. _ last billion dollar he can get his hands on. and we know if the rich:— his hands on. and we know if the non it— his hands on. and we know if the non it we— his hands on. and we know if the non it we it— his hands on. and we know if the rich, if we if we _ his hands on. and we know if the rich, if we if we look— his hands on. and we know if the rich, if we if we look if we took— rich, if we if we look if we took i— rich, if we if we look if we look i don't— rich, if we if we look if we look i don't know how nice elon tink— look i don't know how nice elon iiwok wowtt— look i don't know how nice elon musk would taste— look i don't know how nice elon musk would taste because he's got one— musk would taste because he's got pnettv— musk would taste because he's got some pretty sour opinions. not— got some pretty sour opinions. not it— got some pretty sour opinions. not it won— got some pretty sour opinions. but if you look— got some pretty sour opinions. but if you look at— got some pretty sour opinions. but if you look at the there was a but if you look at the there was o stow— but if you look at the there was a study published— but if you look at the there was a study published in the new wonk— a study published in the new vonk tines— a study published in the new york times-he- a study published in the new york times he bought york times after he bought iwitten— york times after he bought twitter,-musk- york times after he bought twitter, musk bought twitter, elon musk bought iwitten—tnei twitter, elon musk bought- twitter_the new twitter that said that the new wonk— twitter that said that the new vow-onnen— twitter that said that the new york-crimes,.was- york hate crimes, it was neponet— york hate crimes, it was neponet in— york hate crimes, it was reported in there, was from reported in there, it was from an reported in there, it was from on inponiot— reported in there, it was from an impartial source that hate. crimes against black people on wine— crimes against black people on iwitten note— crimes against black people on twitter hate tweets had gone up by twioe— twitter hate tweets had gone up by twioe .— twitter hate tweets had gone up by twioe . tnen— twitter hate tweets had gone up by twice . there had been a third by twice. there had been a third noe— by twice. there had been a third rise-homophobic— by twice. there had been a third rise homophobic tweets. okay. rise in homophobic tweets. okay. kno— rise in homophobic tweets. okay. ant-tnev— rise in homophobic tweets. okay. ant-tnev-peopte- rise in homophobic tweets. okay. and they people like and then they put people like knonew— and then they put people like knonew-on- and then they put people like andrew-on the- and then they put people like andrew on the right. andrew tate back on the right. okov. — andrew tate back on the right. okov. tot-o— andrew tate back on the right. okov. tetn toot— andrew tate back on the right. okay. let's just actually- andrew tate back on the right. okay. let's just actually get into that, because the washington post is essentially a mouthpiece for the far left and the democratic party . and it was the democratic party. and it was the washington post that was spreading about spreading misinformation about the hunter biden laptop story being a conspiracy theory, one that twitter underneath the far left content moderators were, you know, really , really happy you know, really, really happy to censor, which may have had an impact on the 2020 presidential

election. so i dispute those falsities , but i'm guessing that falsities, but i'm guessing that , darren, you would actually agree with michael? i do. but look, i've got to— agree with michael? i do. but look, i've got to points- .3gn;.; it 37 i do. but look, i've got to points there. i look, i've got to points there. i neon— look, i've got to points there. i mean, twitter— look, i've got to points there. i mean, twitter is— look, i've got to points there. i mean, twitter is losing money tooten— i mean, twitter is losing money tooten tnon— i mean, twitter is losing money faster than me— i mean, twitter is losing money faster than me on— i mean, twitter is losing money faster than me on a night out. so faster than me on a night out. so in— faster than me on a night out. so in not— faster than me on a night out. so i'm not sure— faster than me on a night out. so i'm not sure that, you know, tton— so i'm not sure that, you know, tton tink— so i'm not sure that, you know, elon musk has— so i'm not sure that, you know, elon musk has actually done a oenoitte— elon musk has actually done a sensible thing— elon musk has actually done a sensible thing if— elon musk has actually done a sensible thing if he wants to non— sensible thing if he wants to make himself— sensible thing if he wants to make himself rich. and secondly , i make himself rich. and secondly . i ootwottv— make himself rich. and secondly , i actually think— make himself rich. and secondly , i actually think that he exponent— , i actually think that he exposed here— , i actually think that he exposed here in this interview the exposed here in this interview tne toot— exposed here in this interview the fact that_ exposed here in this interview the fact that there is a elite in tnin— the fact that there is a elite in this country— the fact that there is a elite in this country that want to stone— in this country that want to silence dissenting voices that totk— silence dissenting voices that totk onont— silence dissenting voices that talk about things like the wine— talk about things like the twitter files— talk about things like the twitter files that perhaps spoke onont— twitter files that perhaps spoke otowt tne— twitter files that perhaps spoke otowt tne wov— twitter files that perhaps spoke about the way in— twitter files that perhaps spoke about the way in which the covid tookoowno— about the way in which the covid lockdowns and _ about the way in which the covid lockdowns and excess deaths or indeed— lockdowns and excess deaths or inteet even— lockdowns and excess deaths or indeed even how— lockdowns and excess deaths or indeed even how greta thunberg teenoge— indeed even how greta thunberg teenoge tnwont— indeed even how greta thunberg teenage truant that she is, is in pennopo— teenage truant that she is, is in pennope on— teenage truant that she is, is in perhaps an oracle that we owgnt— in perhaps an oracle that we owgnt to— in perhaps an oracle that we ought to listen— in perhaps an oracle that we ought to listen to when it comes to notes— ought to listen to when it comes to notten ot— ought to listen to when it comes to matters of climate and economic policy . all of these economic policy. all of these tningo— economic policy. all of these tningo i— economic policy. all of these things i think— economic policy. all of these things i think elon musk is a teno— things i think elon musk is a ten. franklvv — things i think elon musk is a hero, frankly, for— things i think elon musk is a hero, frankly, for allowing us to te — hero, frankly, for allowing us to te otte— hero, frankly, for allowing us to be able to— hero, frankly, for allowing us to be able to air— hero, frankly, for allowing us to be able to air these opinions tnot— to be able to air these opinions tnot go— to be able to air these opinions to go ogoinot— to be able to air these opinions that go against the grain. i wont— that go against the grain. i wont to— that go against the grain. i want to know— that go against the grain. i want to know what hateful speech is want to know what hateful speech in teoowe— want to know what hateful speech in teoowe i— want to know what hateful speech is because i didn't— want to know what hateful speech

is because i didn't learn onvtning— is because i didn't learn anything from - is because i didn't learn anything from that interview. itin— anything from that interview. this nno— anything from that interview. this bbc reporter— anything from that interview. this bbc reporter later- anything from that interview. this bbc reporter later had no idea what the definition of what he was talking about was. he couldn't say, as you said in your monologue there, he couldn't say what example urls there were. he said, oh, my four you page, which is where, you know, different tweets collate for your viewing erg are a bit nastier than normal. that is the point. iti— nastier than normal. that is the point. it ooe— nastier than normal. that is the point. i'll come to— nastier than normal. that is the point. i'll come to you- nastier than normal. that is the point. i'll come to you in- 1“ that is the point. i'll come to you in a oeoont — point. i'll come to you in a oeoont i— point. i'll come to you in a second. i will— point. i'll come to you in a second. i will just say that is tne— second. i will just say that is tne point.— second. i will just say that is the point, emily,— second. i will just say that is the point, emily, is that they are so insulated— the point, emily, is that they are so insulated covid by any otten— are so insulated covid by any otnen oon— are so insulated covid by any otnen oont ot— are so insulated covid by any other sort of opposing opinion. t hey— other sort of opposing opinion. inev toot— other sort of opposing opinion. inev toot go— other sort of opposing opinion. they just go around assuming tnot— they just go around assuming tnot tneoe— they just go around assuming that these things are true. but wnen— that these things are true. but wnen tnoin— that these things are true. but when their views,— that these things are true. but when their views, you know. give me on evonpte— when their views, you know. give me on evonpte ot— when their views, you know. give me an example of this hate opeeon— me an example of this hate epeeon vow— me an example of this hate speech you speak of. they can't give— speech you speak of. they can't give — speech you speak of. they can't give took.— speech you speak of. they can't give one. look, i— speech you speak of. they can't give one. look, i think- speech you speak of. they can't give one. look, i think more than one thing can be true. it can be true that this bbc interview was a disaster for the bbc. the journalist was bbc. i think the journalist was reading something from reading reading something from their obviously there their phone. and obviously there weren't examples of hateful weren't any examples of hateful speech. but equally, all speech. but equally, i think all of aware of some of the of us are aware of some of the awful things which are said on twitter. i had death threat on twitter. i had a death threat on twitter. i had a death threat on twitter at which i had to get

the police involved in about. benjamin about just benjamin was talking about just before air. before we came in on air. someone wished that wished that this be he said, when's this would be he said, when's your because your next birthday? because i hope your last. but the hope it's your last. no, but the point is the point is i think it's a bit silly to say, oh, they didn't have an examples of hateful twitter . get hateful speech on twitter. get yourself it exists. yourself know that it exists. i mean, is get yourself off mean, it is get yourself off twitter because i mean, i have been on twitter before for elon musk. mean, we all have before musk. i mean, we all have before he musk. i mean, we all have before to took— musk. i mean, we all have before to took — musk. i mean, we all have before he took over. and— musk. i mean, we all have before he took over. and i've— i mean, we all have before he took over. and i've had my toin— he took over. and i've had my toin-ot. — he took over. and i've had my toin-ot. so— he took over. and i've had my fair-of. so it- he took over. and i've had my fair-of. so it does- he took over. and i've had my fair of. e 3 i1:;;p< fair share of. so it does exist then we agree that hateful speech on twitter point was speech on twitter the point was from journalist that from the journalist was that it is something significant has happened over and happened since he took over and he couldn't give a single example. so the statistics that benjamin— example. so the statistics that benjamin -from - example. so the statistics that benjamin-from the- t1:;;p

watching. we'll see you again next— watching. we'll see you again next week— watching. we'll see you again next week on— watching. we'll see you again next week on the— watching. we'll see you again next week on the saturday five kviv. — next week on the saturday five kviv. netto — next week on the saturday five kviv. pen in— next week on the saturday five kyiv. hello i'm craig snell. wene— kyiv. hello i'm craig snell. none is— kyiv. hello i'm craig snell. none is wow— kyiv. hello i'm craig snell. here is your latest- kyiv. hello i'm craig snell. here is your latest forecast from the met office. so as we go through the next few days, for many of us, it's going to be fairly cloudy tomorrow. but the brighter are to return brighter skies are set to return as we go into early next week. so situation at the so here's the situation at the moment. we've got high pressure trying move across the uk, trying to move in across the uk, but these two weather fronts will many western will move in across many western areas as we go through next areas as we go through the next 24 hours, bringing in another areas as we go through the next 24 hoof;, bringing in another areas as we go through the next 24 hoof cloud]ing in another areas as we go through the next 24 hoof cloud and in another areas as we go through the next 24 hoof cloud and rain.other areas as we go through the next 24 hoof cloud and rain. you r areas as we go through the next 24 hoof cloud and rain. you can spell of cloud and rain. you can see the graphics here see it on the graphics here already moving northern already moving into northern ireland eventually into ireland and eventually into scotland goes on scotland as the evening goes on for eastern parts , for many eastern parts, actually, going to remain actually, it's going to remain fairly clear actually, it's going to remain fairly maybe clear actually, it's going to remain fairly maybe the clear actually, it's going to remain fairly maybe the oddlear actually, it's going to remain fairly maybe the odd mist and skies, maybe the odd mist and fog but also here we fog patch. but also here we could just see a touch of frost. but further west where we see the cloud and it should be the cloud and rain, it should be a fairly mild night. the compared recent . so tomorrow compared to recent. so tomorrow for a lot of us it starts off fairly grey. could you see some brightness across the east? but generally a lot of cloud around some outbreaks of rain to quite light and patchy though mainly nuisance value more than

anything but then going anything else, but then going into the afternoon, brighter skies northern ireland and skies for northern ireland and scotland. well scotland. this may well trigger a showers , but also feeling a few showers, but also feeling quite warm here in the sunshine could highs reaching 17 could see highs reaching 17 degrees still quite degrees but still quite disappointing where that cloud lingers parts of england lingers across parts of england and the evening. a and wales into the evening. a lot of the showers generally fading away. so as we go into the small hours of monday, actually quite a lot of the uk generally some clear skies, generally dry. some clear skies, especially scotland and especially across scotland and also across some eastern parts of england, too. here again, we could just see a touch of frost, but where the cloud hangs on, it should be fairly mild for most as we start monday morning . so as we start monday morning. so going into monday again , a going into monday again, a fairly cloudy start across the west. but it the clearer skies across the east will slowly spread their away a little bit further westwards as the day goes some good sunshine goes on. so some good sunshine developing across midlands, developing across the midlands, central england, central southern england, northern scotland maybe also northern scotland and maybe also northern ireland, too. and in the sunshine, especially come tuesday, see highs tuesday, we could see highs reaching 20 degrees in the .

nonh it's 9:00 and this is mark dolan tonight in my big opinion, my first on air comments about meghan markle's absence from the coronation in what i've got to say, may surprise you. trust me, you won't say, may surprise you. trust me, vow won-t wont— say, may surprise you. trust me, you won't want to— say, may surprise you. trust me, you won't want to miss- say, may surprise you. trust me, you won't want to miss it.- trust me, you won't want to miss it. the big— you won't want to miss it. the pig eton— you won't want to miss it. the big story following the disruption— big story following the disruption at this afternoon's onono— disruption at this afternoon's grand national,— disruption at this afternoon's grand national, a representative tnon— grand national, a representative tnon kninot— grand national, a representative from animal rising will be live in tne— from animal rising will be live in the studio— from animal rising will be live in the studio ._ from animal rising will be live in the studio . were the animal in the studio. were the animal nignn— in the studio. were the animal rights protesters— in the studio. were the animal rights protesters justified in onnwpting— rights protesters justified in disrupting the— rights protesters justified in disrupting the race? and my mark neon— disrupting the race? and my mark neen guest— disrupting the race? and my mark neen guest in— disrupting the race? and my mark meets guest is the— disrupting the race? and my mark meets guest is the legendary gontenen— meets guest is the legendary gardener who's— meets guest is the legendary gardener who's become a oenooiont— gardener who's become a sensation online when gerald stnottont— sensation online when gerald stnottont n— sensation online when gerald stratford is retired. and he's got— stratford is retired. and he's got goite— stratford is retired. and he's got quite tne— stratford is retired. and he's

got quite the story . he