identifying as martin daubney. hey, it's 2023. it's my show , hey, it's 2023. it's my show, and this is my truth . the robb and this is my truth. the robb report, as it's been dubbed , is report, as it's been dubbed, is on the prime minister's desk as we speak. the deputy prime minister is accused of bullying a series of civil servants. rishi sunak says he wants to consider the report carefully before making a decision. so the big question will stand by big question is will he stand by his are the allegations his man or are the allegations just too severe to ignore right wing tories have pushed the government to accept an amendment that will allow ministers to ignore the european

court of human rights. it court of human rights. if it passes, it mean judges who court of human rights. if it pastos, it mean judges who court of human rights. if it pasto block mean judges who court of human rights. if it pasto block deportation ges who court of human rights. if it pasto block deportation flights) try to block deportation flights can can be told where to go. is labour now hostile place for gender critical feminists? well, one of its mps says so we've got a labour man with us tonight. what does he think? and finally, if the dup thought collapsing stormont would win them concessions, they seem set to be disappointed. sunak now telling them if they don't go back into government be a united government there'll be a united ireland or they've been threatened to accept eu alignment. all of that to come tonight on dewbs& co with me, martin daubney. but first, the latest polly latest news headlines with polly middlehurst . martin thank middlehurst. martin thank you. let's get up to date with the latest— let's get up to date with the latest newe— let's get up to date with the latest news here— let's get up to date with the latest news here on gb news. the top stew,— latest news here on gb news. the top story, the— latest news here on gb news. the top story, the prime— latest news here on gb news. the top story, the prime minister wm— top story, the prime minister will nee— top story, the prime minister will not be— top story, the prime minister will not be deciding on the fate of will not be deciding on the fate mummy,— will not be deciding on the fate of deputy, dominic raab. of his deputy, dominic raab. tonight. — of his deputy, dominic raab. tonight. understand tonight. we understand rishi sunek— tonight. we understand rishi sunak considering sunak is considering the findings— sunak is considering the findings independent findings of an independent inquiry— findings of an independent inquiry inne— findings of an independent inquiry into alleged bullying by mr nann—

inquiry into alleged bullying by mr neen. nne— inquiry into alleged bullying by mr raab. the deputy prime ninetee— mr raab. the deputy prime minister himself requested the repen— minister himself requested the renen ee— minister himself requested the renen ee ene— minister himself requested the report as the first— minister himself requested the report as the first allegation neee— report as the first allegation made in— report as the first allegation was made in november last year. nem— was made in november last year. eight complaints— was made in november last year. eight complaints were made by enn— eight complaints were made by staff aboun— eight complaints were made by staff about mr— eight complaints were made by staff about mr raabs behaviour during— staff about mr raabs behaviour during ne— staff about mr raabs behaviour during his time— staff about mr raabs behaviour during his time as foreign secretary.— during his time as foreign secretary. brexit secretary and as jnenee— secretary. brexit secretary and as justice secretary. downing street— as justice secretary. downing street says— as justice secretary. downing street says rishi _ as justice secretary. downing street says rishi sunak maintains— street says rishi sunak maintains full confidence in mr nann— maintains full confidence in mr we end— maintains full confidence in mr new and n— maintains full confidence in mr raab and is said— maintains full confidence in mr raab and is said to be carefully eeneieenne— raab and is said to be carefully considering the— raab and is said to be carefully considering the report's finenes— considering the report's findings .— considering the report's findings. the academy of medical reyn— findings. the academy of medical neyn ceueeee— findings. the academy of medical royal colleges is— findings. the academy of medical royal colleges is urging junior decen— royal colleges is urging junior doctors and— royal colleges is urging junior doctors and the— royal colleges is urging junior doctors and the government to fine— doctors and the government to fine a— doctors and the government to find a solution— doctors and the government to find a solution to— doctors and the government to find a solution to their deadlock— find a solution to their deadlock over pay for the sake of deadlock over pay for the sake on patient— deadlock over pay for the sake on patient s— deadlock over pay for the sake of patient s and— deadlock over pay for the sake of patient s and the wider nhs . of patient s and the wider nhs. menn— of patient s and the wider nhs. nearly 200,000— of patient s and the wider nhs. nearly 200,000 hospital appointments— nearly 200,000 hospital appointments had to be rescheduled— appointments had to be rescheduled following the junior decen— rescheduled following the junior doctors strike _ rescheduled following the junior doctors strike action last week. nne— doctors strike action last week. nne academy— doctors strike action last week. the academy had— doctors strike action last week. the academy had helped to secure a den— the academy had helped to secure a deal between— the academy had helped to secure a deal between both— the academy had helped to secure a deal between both sides following— a deal between both sides following strike action in 2016, nnen— following strike action in 2016, nnen ene— following strike action in 2016, when the shadow— following strike action in 2016, when the shadow chancellor, rennet— when the shadow chancellor, rachel reeves,— when the shadow chancellor, rachel reeves, says the government _ rachel reeves, says the government is resisting a deal yet government is resisting a deal yen agein- — government is resisting a deal yen again. the— government is resisting a deal yet again. c yet again. the government are allowing this industrial action to continue because they're not willing to take the steps that are necessary to resolve these

disputes. now look , the many disputes. now look, the many challenges in the nhs and it's not possible to fix everything overnight, but labour have committed to getting rid of the non—dom tax status because if you make britain your home, you should pay your taxes here and under labour you will and we would use that money to double the number of training places at medical school . the association medical school. the association of medical school. the association on seneet— medical school. the association on seneet ene— medical school. the association of school and college- “c: n: f the association of school and college leaders wm— of school and college leaders win new— of school and college leaders win new a— of school and college leaders will hold a national strike neuen— will hold a national strike neuen fen— will hold a national strike ballot for the— will hold a national strike ballot for the very first time nnn — ballot for the very first time nnn nne — ballot for the very first time with the union— ballot for the very first time with the union saying it's a teen— with the union saying it's a teen en— with the union saying it's a lack of funding— with the union saying it's a lack of funding for schools , pay lack of funding for schools, pay eeneinene— lack of funding for schools, pay conditions and— lack of funding for schools, pay conditions and staff shortages, nnen— conditions and staff shortages, nnen nee— conditions and staff shortages, which has led— conditions and staff shortages, which has led to— conditions and staff shortages, which has led to their decision . n-e— which has led to their decision . it's described— which has led to their decision . it's described the government's attempts to . it's described the— government's attempts to resolve the government's attempts to resolve nne teen— government's attempts to resolve the last dispute— government's attempts to resolve the last dispute last month as completely— the last dispute last month as completely inadequate . a vote completely inadequate. a vote wm— completely inadequate. a vote will be— completely inadequate. a vote will be new— completely inadequate. a vote will be held in— completely inadequate. a vote will be held in the summer with ennne— will be held in the summer with strike action— will be held in the summer with strike action plan— will be held in the summer with strike action plan for the utu — strike action plan for the utu .— strike action plan for the autumn . now- strike action plan for the autumn . now breaking news within autumn. now breaking news within the autumn. now breaking news within tne teet— autumn. now breaking news within tne tuet nutt— autumn. now breaking news within the last half hour,— autumn. now breaking news within the last half hour, a— autumn. now breaking news within the last half hour, a senior teteettve— the last half hour, a senior detective in— the last half hour, a senior detective in northern ireland une— detective in northern ireland wne wee— detective in northern ireland who was targeted by gunmen has ttnettw— who was targeted by gunmen has ttnettw teen— who was targeted by gunmen has finally been discharged from hospital-— finally been discharged from hospital. detective chief tneneeten— hospital. detective chief inspector john caldwell was shot sevent— inspector john caldwell was shot eventettnee— inspector john caldwell was shot several times while coaching a veutn— several times while coaching a youth football— several times while coaching a youth football team at a sports

tente— youth football team at a sports eente tn— youth football team at a sports centre in omagh_ youth football team at a sports centre in omagh last february . centre in omagh last february. nett— centre in omagh last february. he'll continue— centre in omagh last february. he'll continue his— centre in omagh last february. he'll continue his recovery at none.— he'll continue his recovery at none. nette— he'll continue his recovery at home. police have arrested six neente— home. police have arrested six neepte tn— home. police have arrested six people in connection with the eneettne— people in connection with the eneettne ,— people in connection with the eneettng , tut— people in connection with the shooting , but no— people in connection with the shooting , but no one has been shooting, but no one has been energet— shooting, but no one has been entreet .— shooting, but no one has been entreet . n— shooting, but no one has been charged . a suspected russian spy charged. a suspected russian spy enn— charged. a suspected russian spy entn nee— charged. a suspected russian spy ship nee teen— charged. a suspected russian spy ship has been spotted at key energy— ship has been spotted at key energy installations off the tenet— energy installations off the eenet et— energy installations off the coast of britain. it's claimed tne— coast of britain. it's claimed tne veeeet— coast of britain. it's claimed the vessel was— coast of britain. it's claimed the vessel was last seen looking at the vessel was last seen looking nt wtnt— the vessel was last seen looking nt wtnt tune— the vessel was last seen looking at wind farms and— the vessel was last seen looking at wind farms and other maritime infrastructure— at wind farms and other maritime infrastructure for— at wind farms and other maritime infrastructure for potentially for vulnerabilities if conflict unte— for vulnerabilities if conflict tnte eut— for vulnerabilities if conflict broke out between russia and the ween— broke out between russia and the weet. a— broke out between russia and the weet. a repen— broke out between russia and the west. a report says— broke out between russia and the west. a report says the ship enttet— west. a report says the ship sailed around— west. a report says the ship sailed around the baltic sea and the sailed around the baltic sea and tne tenn— sailed around the baltic sea and tne wenn sen— sailed around the baltic sea and the north sea for— sailed around the baltic sea and the north sea for a— sailed around the baltic sea and the north sea for a month and is part— the north sea for a month and is nnn et— the north sea for a month and is nnn et n— the north sea for a month and is en et n tteet— the north sea for a month and is part of a fleet disguised as eetentttte— part of a fleet disguised as scientific research vessels. wennwntte— scientific research vessels. meanwhile jens stoltenberg has teetnvet— meanwhile jens stoltenberg has declared that— meanwhile jens stoltenberg has declared that the— meanwhile jens stoltenberg has declared that the future of wtvntne— declared that the future of ukraine lies— declared that the future of ukraine lies within nato. the unto— ukraine lies within nato. the unto entet— ukraine lies within nato. the nato chief was— ukraine lies within nato. the nato chief was arriving in kyiv to pay— nato chief was arriving in kyiv to en te— nato chief was arriving in kyiv to pay his respects to soldiers woven— to pay his respects to soldiers we-ven ttet— to pay his respects to soldiers who've died in— to pay his respects to soldiers who've died in the war and show his who've died in the war and show we euppen— who've died in the war and show we eunnen ne— who've died in the war and show his support as the— who've died in the war and show his support as the country prepares— his support as the country wepnvee ten— his support as the country prepares for another counter—offensive against russia in counter—offensive against russia tn nte— counter—offensive against russia tn we met— counter—offensive against russia in his first visit— counter—offensive against russia in his first visit since the tnvnenn— in his first visit since the invasion, he— in his first visit since the invasion, he pledged continued nttttnw— invasion, he pledged continued nttttnvv eunnen— invasion, he pledged continued military support for ukraine, netting— military support for ukraine, ntttng tnnt— military support for ukraine, adding that its—

military support for ukraine, adding that its rightful place wttntn— adding that its rightful place was within the _ adding that its rightful place was within the alliance. also veeenntee— was within the alliance. also recognise that— was within the alliance. also recognise that president zetenetvv— recognise that president zelenskyy will raise the issue of membership— zelenskyy will raise the issue of membership of security gunnnteee— of membership of security guarantees and this will be high on we— guarantees and this will be high on tne neentn— guarantees and this will be high on the agenda of— guarantees and this will be high on the agenda of the meeting and neo— on the agenda of the meeting and ntee tn— on the agenda of the meeting and ntee tn tne— on the agenda of the meeting and also in the lead— on the agenda of the meeting and also in the lead up— on the agenda of the meeting and also in the lead up and the wepnnttene— also in the lead up and the preparations for— also in the lead up and the preparations for the vilnius eunntt— preparations for the vilnius eunntt. — preparations for the vilnius summit . " summit. ukraine's future is in the euro—atlantic family . the euro—atlantic family. ukraine's future is in nato jens stoltenberg erg. now drivers are tenn— stoltenberg erg. now drivers are tetnn netet— stoltenberg erg. now drivers are tetng netet net— stoltenberg erg. now drivers are being asked not to— stoltenberg erg. now drivers are being asked not to pick- "fig ?c now drivers are being asked not to pick up "fig 3c now drivers are being asked not to pick up their nette— being asked not to pick up their nettte pnenee— being asked not to pick up their mobile phones during the government's— mobile phones during the government's emergency alert teet— government's emergency alert test scheduled— government's emergency alert test scheduled to— government's emergency alert test scheduled to take place the— test scheduled to take place this weekend. _ test scheduled to take place this weekend. the aa is advising netenete— this weekend. the aa is advising netenete te— this weekend. the aa is advising motorists to switch— this weekend. the aa is advising motorists to switch off their nette— motorists to switch off their mobile during— motorists to switch off their mobile during the test. laws tnnntnn— mobile during the test. laws tnnntnn tne— mobile during the test. laws banning the use— mobile during the test. laws banning the use of hand—held pnenee— banning the use of hand—held pnenee wtt— banning the use of hand—held phones will still— banning the use of hand—held phones will still apply. banning the use of hand—held phones will still apply . the phones will still apply. the num— phones will still apply. the ntnvn te— phones will still apply. the alarm is due— phones will still apply. the alarm is due to— phones will still apply. the alarm is due to sound for ten eeeenet— alarm is due to sound for ten eeeenet tnn — alarm is due to sound for ten seconds from 3:00 in the nttevneen— seconds from 3:00 in the afternoon on— seconds from 3:00 in the afternoon on sunday. now in the unten— afternoon on sunday. now in the united states,— afternoon on sunday. now in the united states, the— afternoon on sunday. now in the united states, the most powerful netet— united states, the most powerful netet eve— united states, the most powerful rocket ever built— united states, the most powerful rocket ever built on— united states, the most powerful rocket ever built on earth has teen— rocket ever built on earth has been launched— rocket ever built on earth has been launched from south texas . been launched from south texas. tnve— been launched from south texas. tnte n— been launched from south texas.

tnte n teet— been launched from south texas. tnte n tent .— take a look. zen.- take a look. zero. that is a take a look.- zero. that is a sight take a look.— zero. that is a sight and tnte n tent.— zero. that is a sight and sound of zero. that is a sight and sound et tnn— zero. that is a sight and sound of elon musk's_ zero. that is a sight and sound of elon musk's spacex sent eentttne— of elon musk's spacex sent eenttng tne— of elon musk's spacex sent sending the new rocket called stnventn— sending the new rocket called stnventn tnn— sending the new rocket called starship into space. the launch tntttnttv— starship into space. the launch was initially successful , but was initially successful, but we— was initially successful, but tne teeetev— was initially successful, but the booster didn't separate as ntnnnet— the booster didn't separate as ntnnnet nnt— the booster didn't separate as planned and exploded moments tntev— planned and exploded moments tntev .— planned and exploded moments tntev . nut— planned and exploded moments later . but the— planned and exploded moments later . but the spacex team later. but the spacex team teeentet— later. but the spacex team described the _ later. but the spacex team described the moment as a rapid , uneenetutet— described the moment as a rapid , unscheduled disassembly , which , unscheduled disassembly, which will , unscheduled disassembly, which wttt te— , unscheduled disassembly, which will be useful— , unscheduled disassembly, which will be useful for— , unscheduled disassembly, which will be useful for their data . will be useful for their data. nntten— will be useful for their data. british astronaut tim peake has eennntu— british astronaut tim peake has congratu lated_ british astronaut tim peake has congratu lated the spacex team on twtttev— congratu lated the spacex team on twitter encouraging them to teet— on twitter encouraging them to teet, tenvn— on twitter encouraging them to test, learn and— on twitter encouraging them to test, learn and try— on twitter encouraging them to test, learn and try again on the entre— test, learn and try again on the entire starship_ test, learn and try again on the entire starship stack, continuing - entire starship stack, continuing to rotate . ash; entire starship stack,— continuing to rotate . we should continuing to rotate. we should tnve— continuing to rotate. we should tnve tnn— continuing to rotate. we should have had separation by now , so have had separation by now, so obviously this is does not appear to be a nominal situation. yeah, it does appear to be spinning, but i do want to remind everyone that everything after clearing the tower was icing on the cake . star starship

icing on the cake. star starship just experienced— icing on the cake. star starship just experienced what- ti g lift" i star starship just experienced what we i g lift" i star starship just experienced what we call a nutt— just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly or a rapid unscheduled disassembly or n tun— rapid unscheduled disassembly or n tun tunne— rapid unscheduled disassembly or a rud during ascent. but now tnn— a rud during ascent. but now ttte wn— a rud during ascent. but now ttte n— a rud during ascent. but now this was a development test. this is the first test flight of starship and the goal was to gather the data. massive enttnten— gather the data. massive optimism there - gather the data. massive optimism there in- d massive optimism there in texas as that netet— optimism there in texas as that rocket module— optimism there in texas as that rocket module exploded . now, in rocket module exploded. now, in etnev— rocket module exploded. now, in etnev ee— rocket module exploded. now, in other news today— rocket module exploded. now, in other news today ,_ rocket module exploded. now, in other news today , a private other news today, a private tunent— other news today, a private tunent et— other news today, a private funeral of the— other news today, a private funeral of the tv presenter and tnnneue— funeral of the tv presenter and tnnneue ten— funeral of the tv presenter and famous dog lover— funeral of the tv presenter and famous dog lover paul o'grady tne— famous dog lover paul o'grady nne teen— famous dog lover paul o'grady has been taking— famous dog lover paul o'grady has been taking place in kent . has been taking place in kent. tnut— has been taking place in kent. tnut tne— has been taking place in kent. tnut nne new— has been taking place in kent. paul has now been laid to rest nttev— paul has now been laid to rest nttev n— paul has now been laid to rest after a service— paul has now been laid to rest after a service at— paul has now been laid to rest after a service at a— paul has now been laid to rest after a service at a church in netttnnten.— after a service at a church in bollington. hundreds of eeeetnteve— bollington. hundreds of spectators lining the streets of atttnnten— spectators lining the streets of aldington, where _ spectators lining the streets of aldington, where he'd lived for two aldington, where he'd lived for twe teentee— aldington, where he'd lived for two decades to— aldington, where he'd lived for two decades to watch the eneeeeten— two decades to watch the procession led - two decades to watch the procession led by dogs from the entteveen— procession led by dogs from the battersea dogs— procession led by dogs from the battersea dogs and cats home wttn— battersea dogs and cats home wttn nte— battersea dogs and cats home with his husband— battersea dogs and cats home with his husband , paul sat on with his husband, paul sat on the with his husband, paul sat on tne tnnt— with his husband, paul sat on tne tvent et— with his husband, paul sat on the front of the— with his husband, paul sat on the front of the open air nnnen— the front of the open air carriage, holding one of the eeuete-e— carriage, holding one of the couple's beloved dogs . the couple's beloved dogs. the tnnee— couple's beloved dogs. the tnnee nne— couple's beloved dogs. the prince and princess of wales tnve— prince and princess of wales nnve teen— prince and princess of wales nnve teen tn— prince and princess of wales have been in birmingham today tntttnn— have been in birmingham today tntttnn te— have been in birmingham today talking to local— have been in birmingham today talking to local business owners . tnetv— talking to local business owners . tnetv royal— talking to local business owners . their royal highnesses visited the . their royal highnesses visited tne ettv-e—

. their royal highnesses visited the city's historic— . their royal highnesses visited the city's historic jewellery eunnen— the city's historic jewellery quarter, meeting designers , quarter, meeting designers, nntete— quarter, meeting designers, nntete nnt— quarter, meeting designers, artists and playwrights , artists and playwrights, eeenttnn— artists and playwrights, eeenttng te— artists and playwrights, speaking to them about their eeenene— speaking to them about their experience of— speaking to them about their experience of opening and vunntnn— experience of opening and running businesses in the city. tnnt-e— running businesses in the city. we veuv— running businesses in the city. that's your latest— running businesses in the city. that's your latest news. i'm tenet— that's your latest news. i'm tenet tn— that's your latest news. i'm tenet tn nn— that's your latest news. i'm back in an hour.— that's your latest news. i'm back in an hour. see you then . back in an hour. see you then. iand— back in an hour. see you then. iand ttnnt— back in an hour. see you then. i ant tnnnt veu— back in an hour. see you then. i and thank you very- back in an hour. see you then. i and thank you very much. back in an hour. see you then. i and thelcome very much. back in an hour. see you then. i and thelcome toy much. back in an hour. see you then. i and thelcome to dewbs& co that and welcome to dewbs& co with martin daubney joining with me, martin daubney joining me tonight. my me until 7:00 tonight. meet my panel me until 7:00 tonight. meet my panel. is author panel. ella whelan is an author and columnist for spiked online and columnist for spiked online and former and kevin craig is a former labour councillor and the ceo of communications company pl mark, looking very dapper. welcome to the show. how are you both ? i'm the show. how are you both? i'm okay. and don't forget, as usual, get in touch all usual, we can get in touch all the usual ways. gb views at gbnews.uk or twitter at gb news because your show. so on because this is your show. so on to our first debate of the night as speak . to our first debate of the night as speak. rishi sunak has as we speak. rishi sunak as has on his desk, a report into the

bullying allegations against his deputy prime minister, dominic raab. he'll be considering the severity the findings and severity of the findings and then does he need to then deciding does he need to give his deputy prime minister the or sunak already the chop or sunak has already said he recognise the said he doesn't recognise the characterisation rob's characterisation of rob's behaviour as man he knows, behaviour as the man he knows, so would sacking rob simply be a political surrender to whingeing civil servants who have now levelled accusation against four conservative cabinet ministers? let's start with yourself as a labour man. the writing on the wall, or is this just yet more whingeing from entitled civil servants? well, i don't know wneve— servants? well, i don't know wneve tnte— c well, i don't know where this whingeing civil eetvnnt— where this whingeing civil servant thing— where this whingeing civil servant thing has come from. the neve te— servant thing has come from. the case here is that— servant thing has come from. the case here is that there are serious allegations of bullying tnnt— serious allegations of bullying tnnt-tetnn— serious allegations of bullying that being reported on. and that are being reported on. and if that are being reported on. and tt tne— that are being reported on. and if the conduct— that are being reported on. and if the conduct of— that are being reported on. and if the conduct of dominic raab is if the conduct of dominic raab te eeven— if the conduct of dominic raab te eeven te— if the conduct of dominic raab is proven to be— if the conduct of dominic raab is proven to be unbecoming in a nevevnnent— is proven to be unbecoming in a government minister, then he eneutt— government minister, then he should resign.— government minister, then he should resign. and if not, he eneutt— should resign. and if not, he eneutt entw— should resign. and if not, he should carry on— should resign. and if not, he should carry on with his duties . ne— should carry on with his duties . ae veu— should carry on with his duties . ne veu tnew— should carry on with his duties . as you know, to— should carry on with his duties . as you know, to be fair and een— . as you know, to be fair and een et— . as you know, to be fair and sort of broadly— . as you know, to be fair and sort of broadly historical about it, sort of broadly historical about i, were— sort of broadly historical about it, there have— sort of broadly historical about it, there have been ministers across governments accused of tuttvtnn— across governments accused of bullying nnt— across governments accused of bullying and bad— across governments accused of bullying and bad behaviour.

tneee— bullying and bad behaviour. these things— bullying and bad behaviour. these things get looked into . these things get looked into. tt-e— these things get looked into. we get— these things get looked into. it's got nothing— these things get looked into. it's got nothing to do with millennial— it's got nothing to do with millennial whingers , as you seem millennial whingers, as you seem to millennial whingers, as you seem te-tneunn— millennial whingers, as you seem te-tneunn tnnt— millennial whingers, as you seem to -though, that the- millennial whingers, as you seem to though, that the public to think though, that the public eeete— to think though, that the public sector seems to— to think though, that the public sector seems to like all the nette— sector seems to like all the perks-working- sector seems to like all the perks working in the public perks of working in the public eeete— perks of working in the public eeete .— perks of working in the public eeete , tne— perks of working in the public sector , the pensions, the sector, the pensions, the netttnve— sector, the pensions, the holidays work- sector, the pensions, the holidays work home and sector, the pensions, the- holidays work-home and your holidays work from home and your pyjamas— holidays work from home and your evtnnne ten-t— holidays work from home and your pyjamas don't bother going to the pyjamas don't bother going to tne-tut— pyjamas don't bother going to tne-tut-tnev- pyjamas don't bother going to the-but-they geti the office, but when they get envnte— the office, but when they get private sector— the office, but when they get private sector style management wttnt— private sector style management ,wnten tet-e— private sector style management , which let's face— private sector style management , which let's face it, can a , which let's face it, can be a ten— , which let's face it, can be a ttt eunn— , which let's face it, can be a ttt neugn nnt— , which let's face it, can be a bit rough and tumble, don't bit rough and tumble, it don't —tneve- bit rough and tumble, it don't —tneve i bit rough and tumble, it don'ti seem _they? no, bit rough and tumble, it don't. seem _they? no, i seem to like it, do they? no, i tttnt— seem to like it, do they? no, i tttnt tnnt-e— seem to like it, do they? no, i think that's a— seem to like it, do they? no, i think that's a characterisation, martin. ijust think that's a characterisation, martin. i just don't i don't martin. ijust don't i don't ennve— martin. ijust don't i don't ennve ten— martin. ijust don't i don't share for the— swift " i just don't i don't share for the public sector's tutt— share for the public sector's full-robust,- share for the public sector's full-robust, hard. share for the public sector's full robust, hard nosed full of very robust, hard nosed neeete— full of very robust, hard nosed neeete .— full of very robust, hard nosed people . t— full of very robust, hard nosed people . t enw— full of very robust, hard nosed people . t tt— full of very robust, hard nosed people . i saw it serving many people. i saw it serving many vente— people. i saw it serving many venve tn— people. i saw it serving many years in local— people. i saw it serving many years in local government as a eeunetttev— years in local government as a eeunetttev tn— years in local government as a councillor in london, and i just ten-t— councillor in london, and i just ten-t tuv— councillor in london, and i just ten-t tuv tnte— councillor in london, and i just don't buy into that— councillor in london, and i just don't buy into that narrative. i tttnt,— don't buy into that narrative. i tttnt-tnew— don't buy into that narrative. i think,-know, some- don't buy into that narrative. i think, know, some of the think, you know, some of the eeene— think, you know, some of the eeene-vent— think, you know, some of the reports read about how reports you read about how nentnte— reports you read about how dominic raab— reports you read about how dominic raab conducts himself are are less than— dominic raab conducts himself are are less than ideal. yeah. etnv— are are less than ideal. yeah. otnv anne— are are less than ideal. yeah. okay anna, let's— are are less than ideal. yeah. okay anna, let's bring you in sn— okay anna, let's bring you in now. so, so dominic,- okay anna, let's bring you in now. ttzzt " i 3 okay anna, let's bring you in now. jtzzti�* " i 3 now. so, so dominic, rob, you think he's tyrant or himself, think he's a tyrant or himself, the a bit of a the victim of a bit of a whingeing campaign? i think it's probably whingeing campaign? i think it's evetnttvlttt— whingeing campaign? i think it's evetnttvlttt et— whingeing campaign? i think it's probablylbit of both,- gt: g i g"? i think it's probably bit of both, which “gti g i g"? i think it's probably bit of both, which is probably a bit of both, which is tnnt— probably a bit of both, which is tnnt ne— probably a bit of both, which is that he doesn't— probably a bit of both, which is that he doesn't sound like the meet— that he doesn't sound like the nteeet eeeen— that he doesn't sound like the nicest person in— that he doesn't sound like the nicest person in world, does nicest person in the world, does nee— nicest person in the world, does nee-t— nicest person in the world, does nee-t ten-t— nicest person in the world, does he?-i don't know,- he? and he's. i don't know, tnvne— he? and he's. i don't know, ttnvte-nnn- he? and he's. i don't know,- maybe-man syndrome or maybe it's short man syndrome or eenetntnn. — maybe it's short man syndrome or something. _seems- maybe it's short man syndrome or something. seems like something. he's he seems like

tnnt— something. he's he seems like tnnt-ttnt— something. he's he seems like tnnt-ttnt et— that you're kind of stereotypical guy, which stereotypical angry guy, which evetnttv— stereotypical angry guy, which evetnttv veu— stereotypical angry guy, which probably you have to be to an probably you have to be to be an etteettve— probably you have to be to be an effective minister.— probably you have to be to be an effective minister. he's not a very— effective minister. he's not a very effective _ effective minister. he's not a very effective politician. we tnew— very effective politician. we tnew tnnt— very effective politician. we know that he's— very effective politician. we know that he's got some very serious failings— know that he's got some very serious failings ,_ know that he's got some very serious failings , particularly serious failings, particularly in serious failings, particularly tn tne— serious failings, particularly tn tne wnv— serious failings, particularly tn tne wnv tn— serious failings, particularly in the way in which he handled the in the way in which he handled tne teeuee— in the way in which he handled the issues with— in the way in which he handled the issues with afghanistan. and i'd the issues with afghanistan. and wt in— the issues with afghanistan. and t-t ttte te— the issues with afghanistan. and t-t ttte te eee— the issues with afghanistan. and i'd like to see him— the issues with afghanistan. and i'd like to see him pinned on tneee— i'd like to see him pinned on those substantial— i'd like to see him pinned on those substantial issues rather tnnn— those substantial issues rather tnnn tneee— those substantial issues rather than these kind— those substantial issues rather than these kind of allegations of than these kind of allegations et bullying- — than these kind of allegations of bullying. but— than these kind of allegations of bullying. but i suppose who tnewee— of bullying. but i suppose who knows? we've _ of bullying. but i suppose who knows? we've got— of bullying. but i suppose who knows? we've got to find out wnnt— knows? we've got to find out what actually— knows? we've got to find out what actually has gone on. any of what actually has gone on. any et tne— what actually has gone on. any et tne etutt— what actually has gone on. any of the stuff that's— what actually has gone on. any of the stuff that's been sort of tented— of the stuff that's been sort of tentet ev— of the stuff that's been sort of leaked or suggested to has eeuntet— leaked or suggested to has eeuntet n— leaked or suggested to has sounded a kind— leaked or suggested to has sounded a kind of pathetic in terme— sounded a kind of pathetic in tevne et— sounded a kind of pathetic in tevne et. veu— sounded a kind of pathetic in terms of, you know, civil and etvtt— terms of, you know, civil and etvtt etvtt— terms of, you know, civil and civil civil servants being eevnnee— civil civil servants being eevnnee n— civil civil servants being perhaps a little bit thin ettnneet— perhaps a little bit thin skinned. but,- perhaps a little bit thin skinned. but, you know, then nentn— skinned. but, you know, then nentn .— skinned. but, you know, then nentn . tn— skinned. but, you know, then ngntn . tn nnt— skinned. but, you know, then again , in and we— skinned. but, you know, then again , in and we all know that again, in and we all know that the again, in and we all know that tne tuetneee— again, in and we all know that the business of— again, in and we all know that the business of politics is entw— the business of politics is pretty ttnv— the business of politics is pretty dirty -_ the business of politics is pretty dirty- i_ the business of politics is pretty dirty. i mean, the business of politics is pretty dirty . i mean, why pretty dirty. i mean, why teeen-t— pretty dirty. i mean, why doesn't someone just gob on his net— doesn't someone just gob on his net n— doesn't someone just gob on his net n nnnnevn— doesn't someone just gob on his pret a manger smoothie rather tnnn— pret a manger smoothie rather tnnn nnttnn— pret a manger smoothie rather tnnn nnttne tt— pret a manger smoothie rather than making it the business of all than making it the business of ntt et— than making it the business of ntt et ue— than making it the business of ntt et ue te— than making it the business of all of us to yet— than making it the business of all of us to yet again have to sit all of us to yet again have to ett neve— all of us to yet again have to ett neve nnt— all of us to yet again have to sit here and talk— all of us to yet again have to sit here and talk about bullying in parliament?— sit here and talk about bullying in parliament? i— sit here and talk about bullying in parliament? i think i think for in parliament? i think i think ten ne— in parliament? i think i think ten tne— in parliament? i think i think for me, the thing i take away tnn— for me, the thing i take away teen-tnnt— for me, the thing i take away from-that this- for me, the thing i take away from that this isn't the from it is that this isn't the wet— from it is that this isn't the first allegation— from it is that this isn't the first allegation of bullying in westminster.—

first allegation of bullying in westminster. rather than westminster. and rather than tntnttnn— westminster. and rather than thinking that,— westminster. and rather than thinking that, know, we're thinking that, you know, we're we-et— thinking that, you know, we're we-et un— thinking that, you know, we're we-et tw- thinking that, you know, we're we-et by n- thinking that, you know, we're we of run by a cabal of we are sort of run by a cabal of nwtut— we are sort of run by a cabal of awful, horrible— we are sort of run by a cabal of awful, horrible people that ten-t— awful, horrible people that ten-t tent— awful, horrible people that don't treat people nicely, it netunttv— don't treat people nicely, it actually sounds— don't treat people nicely, it actually sounds a bit more sort of actually sounds a bit more sort et un— actually sounds a bit more sort et et— actually sounds a bit more sort et et tne— actually sounds a bit more sort of run of the mill— actually sounds a bit more sort of run of the mill sort of eeneet— of run of the mill sort of school playground to me. and tneee— school playground to me. and tneve ne— school playground to me. and there are some— school playground to me. and there are some very serious eettttent— there are some very serious political crises— there are some very serious political crises and questions tnnt— political crises and questions tnnt neee— political crises and questions tnnt neet te— political crises and questions that need to be— political crises and questions that need to be answered. can we get that need to be answered. can we net-eetne— that need to be answered. can we net-tetnn-ntnev- get on with doing that rather tnnn— get on with doing that rather tnnn-et— get on with doing that rather than-of.this?- get on with doing that rather than-of.this? i- get on with doing that rather than of this? i think than sort of all this? i think nnnv— than sort of all this? i think many restaurant— than sort of all this? i think many restaurant staff might ttentttv— many restaurant staff might identify with— many restaurant staff might identify with your of identify with your kind of eeeetnt— identify with your kind of special mayonnaise type revenge . tut— special mayonnaise type revenge . tut tevtn— special mayonnaise type revenge , but kevin adam— special mayonnaise type revenge , but kevin adam makes a great eetnt— , but kevin adam makes a great eetnt tneee— , but kevin adam makes a great point there about— , but kevin adam makes a great point there about about the teutte— point there about about the double standards. jtit c g double standards. don't forget somebody who defected to the labour party, a certain mrjohn bercow. he faced a far more serious allegations than this , serious allegations than this, which were borne out to be more or less true. so but the labour party then will say, well, let's wait for the full report, but let's not haste to make judgements. but they've been very quick to roll without even knowing what the findings of this are. double this report are. so double standards, you standards, well, i heard you saying before came on you saying before we came on you were to it to me, were going to stick it to me, but don't know if this is that but i don't know if this is that moment, but i don't know what

you're on about. i mean, the tnteuv— you're on about. i mean, the tnteuv tnnv— you're on about. i mean, the labour party is— ”ti: jit" i mean, the labour party is saying, wait ”ti: ti" i mean, the labour party is saying, wait for the labour party is saying, wait for tne ttnttnee— labour party is saying, wait for the findings-the— labour party is saying, wait for the findings the inquiry and the findings of the inquiry and i the findings of the inquiry and t ntnev— the findings of the inquiry and i rather balanced— the findings of the inquiry and i rather balanced a i rather balanced leaf that's a went— i rather balanced leaf that's a went ente.— i rather balanced leaf that's a word said-things- i rather balanced leaf that's a word said. things happen word said. these things happen to word said. these things happen te—ntt— to politicians of all persuasions. i don't to politicians of all- persuasions..| don't think persuasions. so i don't think tneve-e— persuasions. so i don't think there's anything— persuasions. so i don't think there's anything to with the there's anything to do with the tnteuv—neve. i there's anything to do with thei labour—here. they labour party's stance here. they you— labour party's stance here. they veu—te- labour party's stance here. they veu—te nutte- you know, i think it is quite tnnt— you know, i think it is quite ngnt tnnt— you know, i think it is quite right that his— you know, i think it is quite right that his record in eettttee— right that his record in politics is— right that his record in politics is much more interesting- politics is much more interesting to discuss. if he is tne— interesting to discuss. if he is tne t— interesting to discuss. if he is tne t eenee— interesting to discuss. if he is tne t t— interesting to discuss. if he is the i sense i have— interesting to discuss. if he is the i sense i have a feeling tnnt— the i sense i have a feeling tnnt nee— the i sense i have a feeling that he's not— the i sense i have a feeling that he's not going to make it the that he's not going to make it tne wnv— that he's not going to make it tne wnv tnnt— that he's not going to make it the way that if— that he's not going to make it the way that if you follow these etenee— the way that if you follow these etenee tt— the way that if you follow these stories it looks— the way that if you follow these stories it looks like sunak nnen-t— stories it looks like sunak nnen-t net— stories it looks like sunak hasn't got his— stories it looks like sunak hasn't got his back on this teuee— hasn't got his back on this teuee et— hasn't got his back on this because of those bullying allegations. _ because of those bullying- allegations. _think the allegations. so do you think the fact is sleeping on fact that rishi is sleeping on this is an indication that there's a foreboding sense or are we is this pure are we just is this pure speculation? we don't know us3 ten-t— speculation? we don't know us3 ten-t tnew. — speculation? we don't know us3 don't know. others— i 7 we don't know us3 don't know. others don't i ti7 we don't know us3 don't know. others don't know. nut— don't know. others don't know. nutlveu— don't know. others don't know. nutlveu tt— don't know. others don't know. nutlveu tt veu— don't know. others don't know. but you if you follow but if you if you follow eettttee— but if you if you follow politics and— but if you if you follow politics and the media, as we all politics and the media, as we nttltn— politics and the media, as we all-in different— politics and the media, as we all in different ways, i have all do in different ways, i have it all do in different ways, i have tt-te— all do in different ways, i have tt-te ne— all do in different ways, i have tt-te ne ttte— all do in different ways, i have it-to me like he- all do in different ways, i have it to me like he could be it feels to me like he could be in it feels to me like he could be tn n— it feels to me like he could be tn n ttt— it feels to me like he could be tn n ttt et— it feels to me like he could be in a bit of bother— it feels to me like he could be in a bit of bother tomorrow. tenn— in a bit of bother tomorrow. vent-tttn— in a bit of bother tomorrow. yeah-ella, back- in a bit of bother tomorrow. yeah-ella, back to. in a bit of bother tomorrow. yeah i yeah so, ella, back to the bercow point. i didn't stick it to you, i think it is worth to you, but i think it is worth before on, you said i've before i came on, you said i've got stick to that labour got to stick it to that labour guy he gets on tonight. guy when he gets on tonight. and here we are. i'm just asking

if and here we are. i'm just asking tt tnnt— and here we are. i'm just asking tt tnnt we— and here we are. i'm just asking if that was sticking— and here we are. i'm just asking if that was sticking it to him eetttnn— if that was sticking it to him getting warmed— if that was sticking it to him getting warmed up. okay, good, neeet— getting warmed up. okay, good, eeent—ceme- good. this is just the. come on, teeeen— good. this is just the. come on, teeeen ue- — good. this is just the. come on, loosen up. come— good. this is just the. come on, loosen up. come on.- good. this is just the. come on, loosen up. j?" c: good. this is just the. come on, loosen up. c: g loosen up. come on. i'll give you. i'll give you the mayonnaise topping in bit, as mayonnaise topping in a bit, as it that came out. all it were. that came out. all right, ella, there is definitely, think, double definitely, i think, double standards know, standards in this, you know, john he the bullying john bercow, he the bullying allegations against him were deau allegations against him were dealt a more dealt with in a far more sympathetic the sympathetic manner by the liberal because of liberal press, all because of his position brexit. yeah, his position on brexit. yeah, i think i mean there is think that i mean there is definitely a, you know, biases play definitely a, you know, biases play into this and, you know, it doesn't matter how nasty someone play into this and, you know, it dcinn't matter how nasty someone play into this and, you know, it dcin the natter how nasty someone play into this and, you know, it dcin the office how nasty someone play into this and, you know, it dcin the office if)w nasty someone play into this and, you know, it dcin the office if they're/ someone is in the office if they're doing working on doing the, you know, working on the of policy that you the kind of policy that you agree with. and bercow was a venttv— agree with. and bercow was a venttv-exnnete- agree with. and bercow was a really-example of- igiii and bercow was a really example of that. i really good example of that. i nennlnnntn— really good example of that. i nennlnnntn t— really good example of that. i mean, again, i didn't really mean, but again, i didn't really ente-nn— mean, but again, i didn't really care-him shouting- mean, but again, i didn't really care him shouting at care about him shouting at neeete.— care about him shouting at neeete. tttnt— care about him shouting at people, didn't care about people, didn't really care about ntn—wttn- him having stickers with evetettvee— him having stickers with expletives can't say at expletives that i can't say at ttte— expletives that i can't say at the tne— expletives that i can't say at the ttne et— expletives that i can't say at this time of day— expletives that i can't say at this time of day in the back this time of day on in the back of this time of day on in the back et nte— this time of day on in the back et nte env— this time of day on in the back of his car, whatever. i cared nteut— of his car, whatever. i cared nteut tne— of his car, whatever. i cared about the fact— of his car, whatever. i cared about the fact that he had etgntttennt— about the fact that he had significant-on. about the fact that he had significant on the significant influence on the weeeee— significant influence on the process discussions about process of discussions about next— process of discussions about brexit—powerl brexit in the seat of power of nntet— brexit in the seat of power of tttnt-se- brexit in the seat of power of british _so, you - brexit in the seat of power of british so, you know, british politics. so, you know, nnt— british politics. so, you know, nnt veu— british politics. so, you know, nnt veu tnew.— british politics. so, you know, and you know, a— british politics. so, you know, and you know, a lot of people got— and you know, a lot of people get wet— and you know, a lot of people got their knickers— and you know, a lot of people got their knickers in twist got their knickers in a twist nteut— got their knickers in a twist about-rayner- got their knickers in a twist. about-rayner-the about angela rayner using the were— about angela rayner using the went-ttte— about angela rayner using the word _this stuff- about angela rayner using the word this stuff kind word scum, all this stuff kind of word scum, all this stuff kind et neee— word scum, all this stuff kind et neee en— word scum, all this stuff kind of goes on mudslinging of goes on and mudslinging nneeene—

of goes on and mudslinging. nneeene—tnnt happens at pmqs and all that ttnt— happens at pmqs and all that tne-tweet— happens at pmqs and all that kind-most of- happens at pmqs and all thati kind-most of.don't kind of thing. most of us don't tweet— kind of thing. most of us don't tteet et— kind of thing. most of us don't care. most of us— kind of thing. most of us don't care. most of us kind of roll evee— care. most of us kind of roll evee nnt— care. most of us kind of roll our eyes and say,- care. most of us kind of roll our eyes and say, would you just get our eyes and say, would you just net-wttn— our eyes and say, would you just net-wttt tne — our eyes and say, would you just get-wttt tne tet — our eyes and say, would you just get-with the job of- our eyes and say, would you just get with the job of doing get on with the job of doing wnnt— get on with the job of doing wnnt-veu- get on with the job of doing wnnt-veu te- get on with the job of doing what-you to do?- get on with the job of doing what you to do? you what we want you to do? you tnew.— what we want you to do? you tnew.|tntnt— what we want you to do? you know,ithink in— what we want you to do? you know, think in particular, the know, i think in particular, the ceneetvnttve— know, i think in particular, the conservative party of conservative party is guilty of introspection. _ conservative party is guilty of introspection. we've introspection. you know, we've tuet—tuveve- introspection. you know, we've just—furore we've. just the kind of furore we've nnt— just the kind of furore we've nnt wttn— just the kind of furore we've had with however many prime tttnteteve— had with however many prime ministers—the. ministers they've had in the net— ministers they've had in the net-vent. — ministers they've had in the last year. there's they last sort of year. there's they nne-wttn— last sort of year. there's they are _with looking. last sort of year. there's they are with looking up are obsessed with looking up tnetv— are obsessed with looking up tnetv ewn— are obsessed with looking up their own backside. and i think ttte— their own backside. and i think ttte-een— their own backside. and i think this-sortlsymptom- their own backside. and i think this sort symptom it. this is a sort of symptom of it. we— this is a sort of symptom of it. we tuet— this is a sort of symptom of it. we tuet tent— this is a sort of symptom of it. it's just deal with— this is a sort of symptom of it. it's just deal with it, sack nn— it's just deal with it, sack ntn. tt— it's just deal with it, sack ntn. tt veu— it's just deal with it, sack him. if you want to sack him, ntenee— him. if you want to sack him, etenee. tet-e— him. if you want to sack him, please, let's not— him. if you want to sack him, please, let's not make it news nnvneve—se- please, let's not make it news nnvneve—se veul anymore. yeah, kev. so you tune— anymore. yeah, kev. so you talked about— anymore. yeah, kev. so you talked about you've seen some netw— talked about you've seen some pretty—tn- talked about you've seen some pretty—tn tne| talked about you've seen some entne—tn tne| talked about you've seen some prtthe public in the talked about you've seen some prtthe public sector in the in the public sector historically, but is it worth twetttnn— historically, but is it worth dwelling-fact- historically, but is it worth dwelling fact that is dwelling on the fact that is ttte— dwelling on the fact that is thislgeneral_ dwelling on the fact that is this general national thing this a general national thing or veunnev— this a general national thing or veungev-nuen- younger people much more eenetttve— younger people much more sensitive _30- younger people much more sensitive 30 words, sensitive now to 30 words, tweete— sensitive now to 30 words, tweete .— sensitive now to 30 words, tweets , feelings like that tweets, feelings like that teuee— tweets, feelings like that because they _ tweets, feelings like that because they have tweets, feelings like that- because they have-closeted because they have been closeted . t— because they have been closeted . t-veu— because they have been closeted . t-veu tntt— because they have been closeted . i-you talk about- because they have been closeted . i-you talk about this. . i know you talk about this a lot, the fact that there's a special sort of snowflake element or younger people taking offence to things that back in your day, back in my day would have been just brushed off. have been just just brushed off. right. think that's right. well, i think that's a very— right. well, i think that's a ven—neee- right. well, i think that's a ven—eeen eetntl very interesting good point because,-know,- very interesting good point because, know, you've got because, you know, you've got event— because, you know, you've got event eeenenee— because, you know, you've got great experience as a former etttev— great experience as a former

etttev et— great experience as a former etttev et-te- great experience as a former editor of-is that- great experience as a former editor of is that right? editor of loaded. is that right? tnnt— editor of loaded. is that right? tent-tnv— editor of loaded. is that right? nnet-tnv. eut- editor of loaded. is that right? back-day. but i- editor of loaded. is that right? back day. but i now have back in the day. but i now have got back in the day. but i now have net-too— back in the day. but i now have got-100 colleagues- back in the day. but i now have got 100 colleagues in the got over 100 colleagues in the tuetneee — got over 100 colleagues in the business. founded. i've done business. i founded. i've done ttve— business. i founded. i've done five-previously- business. i founded. i've done five-previously in- business. i founded. i've done five previously in my five years previously in my career in a very— five years previously in my career in a very aggressive law tttn— career in a very aggressive law firm environment— career in a very aggressive law firm environment ,_ career in a very aggressive law firm environment , not career in a very aggressive law firm environment, not dissimilar career in a very aggressive law firwhere ronment , not dissimilar career in a very aggressive law firwhere dominic , not dissimilar career in a very aggressive law firwhere dominic raab dissimilar career in a very aggressive law firwhere dominic raab actuallyir to where dominic raab actually eeent— to where dominic raab actually eeent tne— to where dominic raab actually spent time before— to where dominic raab actually spent time before parliament. ant— spent time before parliament. ant nv— spent time before parliament. and my generalisation that and my generalisation is that the workplace _ and my generalisation is that the workplace nowadays is a more ttntev— the workplace nowadays is a more ttntev .— the workplace nowadays is a more kinder , sensitive— the workplace nowadays is a more kinder , sensitive place. okay, kinder, sensitive place. okay, wett— kinder, sensitive place. okay, wett .— kinder, sensitive place. okay, wett . tet-e— kinder, sensitive place. okay, well , let's throw— kinder, sensitive place. okay, well , let's throw this kinder, sensitive place. okay, well, let's throw this question out well, let's throw this question eut te— well, let's throw this question eut te tne— well, let's throw this question out to the audience . t:tit out to the audience. what do you nnte— out to the audience. what do you make of this? is it just snowflakes? is it millennial whingers, or is there a point? should there be proper stamp standards in public life? what do you think back to you? is it young people just being hypersensitive ? they need hypersensitive? they need to just thicker skin? well just grow a thicker skin? well it's not. i mean, that makes it eeunt— it's not. i mean, that makes it eeunt-et— it's not. i mean, that makes it eeunt-et ttte.— it's not. i mean, that makes it sound-of glib, but- it's not. i mean, that makes it sound-of glib, but i- c i mean, that makes it sound of glib, but i do sound kind of glib, but i do tttnt— sound kind of glib, but i do think there— sound kind of glib, but i do think there-a— sound kind of glib, but i do think there a there is a think there is a there is a evetten. — think there is a there is a problem. .have- think there is a there is a. problem. .have-very problem. we have some very serious things— problem. we have some very serious things happening, for exnnete— serious things happening, for examplev tn— serious things happening, for example, in schools where, you tnew.— example, in schools where, you tnew-net— example, in schools where, you know, - not allowed - know, you're not allowed to serious. they have serious consequences,— serious. they have serious consequences, allowed to use consequences, not allowed to use red consequences, not allowed to use net een.— consequences, not allowed to use net een. veu-ve— consequences, not allowed to use red pen. you're not— consequences, not allowed to use red pen. you're not allowed any ttnt— red pen. you're not allowed any ttnt et— red pen. you're not allowed any kind of criticism,— red pen. you're not allowed any kind of criticism, genuine, constructive— kind of criticism, genuine, constructive criticism young constructive criticism on young neeete— constructive criticism on young neeete-eeen— constructive criticism on young eeenteleeenlte- constructive criticism on young people seen be very people is seen to be very damaging— people is seen to be very tnnngtng .— people is seen to be very damaging . and actually, a lot of damaging. and actually, a lot of the damaging. and actually, a lot of tne tne.— damaging. and actually, a lot of tne ttne. t— damaging. and actually, a lot of the time, i think— damaging. and actually, a lot of the time, i think we don't treat

young— the time, i think we don't treat young pimple— the time, i think we don't treat young people with the robust eenett— young people with the robust respect-deserve.- respect that they deserve. thev're — respect that they deserve. they're resilient there's they're very resilient. there's netntnn—veunn. | they're very resilient. there's. nothing—young. that nothing about being young. that tnnt— nothing about being young. that means that you— nothing about being young. that means that you can't take a tneet— means that you can't take a tneet ev— means that you can't take a tneet ev n— means that you can't take a knock or a bit— means that you can't take a knock or a bit of— means that you can't take a knock or a bit of criticism and or knock or a bit of criticism and en tnnt— knock or a bit of criticism and or even that you— knock or a bit of criticism and or even that you can't take a nntet— or even that you can't take a tent teee— or even that you can't take a harsh boss having a go at you in the harsh boss having a go at you in tne—t— harsh boss having a go at you in tne—t tttnt- harsh boss having a go at you in the—i think we- harsh boss having a go at you in the—i think we too. the workplace. i think we too etten — the workplace. i think we too often-ahead— the workplace. i think we too often-ahead-say. the workplace. i think we too. often - ahead - say aren't often jump ahead and say aren't you often jump ahead and say aren't veu tnew— often jump ahead and say aren't veu tnew .— often jump ahead and say aren't veu tnew . veu— often jump ahead and say aren't you know , you-we- often jump ahead and say aren't you know , you we almost you know, you know, we almost ewe— you know, you know, we almost ntve tnen— you know, you know, we almost gtve tnen tne— you know, you know, we almost give them the label of snowflakes— give them the label of snowflakes before they even ask for snowflakes before they even ask tev tt— snowflakes before they even ask ten tt. nnt— snowflakes before they even ask ten tt. ant t— snowflakes before they even ask for it. and i think— snowflakes before they even ask for it. and i think that's tnnt-e— for it. and i think that's tnnt-e n— for it. and i think that's tnnt-e n-n- for it. and i think that's that's a a problem that's a that's a problem teuee— that's a that's a problem because-are- that's a that's a problem because are raising because we are raising a eenentten— because we are raising a generation of— because we are raising a generation of people who aren't nnte— generation of people who aren't ntte te— generation of people who aren't ntte te-tn— generation of people who aren't able to _in the - generation of people who aren't able to-in the real- able to engage in the real went.— able to engage in the real went—tne- able to engage in the real world,_the real world, because in the real went.— world, because in the real world, there _ world, because in the real world, there are- world, because in the real world, there are there are tutttee. — world, there are there are bullies. imean,- world, there are there are bullies. imean, if- world, there are there are bullies. .. �*" world, there are there are- bullies. imean, if books have bullies. i mean, if books have trigger warnings, if words are erased and all, erased from languages and all, we're very much the we're not seeing very much the product a pampered product of a pampered generation. and actually, it's there's for there's something to be said for robust management, breeding toughness into employees. and it can actually help to foster toughness in in the workforce that's useful . well, so you that's useful. well, so you tnew.— that's useful. well, so you tnew. tt— that's useful. well, so you know, it has— that's useful. well, so you know, it has to— that's useful. well, so you know, it has to be- .. well, so you know, it has to be what's the euteeee— know, it has to be what's the euteeee et— know, it has to be what's the euteeee et tne— know, it has to be what's the purpose of the toughness someone just purpose of the toughness someone tuet newne— purpose of the toughness someone tuet nnvtne n— purpose of the toughness someone tuet nnvtne n 90— purpose of the toughness someone tuet nnvtne n ge nt— purpose of the toughness someone just having a go at you because tnew-ne— just having a go at you because tnew-re .— just having a go at you because they're . veu— just having a go at you because they're , you know,— just having a go at you because they're , you know, a diva kind they're, you know, a diva kind of they're, you know, a diva kind et ntnteten— they're, you know, a diva kind of minister, which— they're, you know, a diva kind of minister, which i, you know, etvtt— of minister, which i, you know, etvtt eewnnte— of minister, which i, you know, civil servants whisper in my ear tnnt— civil servants whisper in my ear tnnt tnene-e—

civil servants whisper in my ear that there's lots— civil servants whisper in my ear that there's lots of— civil servants whisper in my ear that there's lots of them in ennttnnent— that there's lots of them in parliament who— that there's lots of them in parliament who want their nnnttne— parliament who want their handbag carried and want be handbag carried and want to be enttet— handbag carried and want to be called minister— handbag carried and want to be called minister and that kind of tntne. — called minister and that kind of tntng. tnnt-e— called minister and that kind of thing. that's no— called minister and that kind of thing. that's no good. if thing. that's no good. but if veue— thing. that's no good. but if you're-business- thing. that's no good. but if you're business of trying you're in the business of trying to you're in the business of trying teleenetntne— you're in the business of trying to something serious, of to do something serious, of when— to do something serious, of wttt-tnnt- to do something serious, of- which-raablsupposed which dominic raab is supposed to which dominic raab is supposed te-eetttne.— which dominic raab is supposed te-eetttne. veu— which dominic raab is supposed to getting, you know, to be, of getting, you know, eutttne— to be, of getting, you know, putting-place— to be, of getting, you know,- putting .place _changes putting in place policy changes and putting in place policy changes nnt-tnnt— putting in place policy changes and-that-make- and law that will make a difference— and law that will make a difference people's lives, difference to people's lives, eueeeeettv— difference to people's lives, eueeeeettv .— difference to people's lives, supposedly , then i don't mind supposedly, then i don't mind you— supposedly, then i don't mind veu cracking— supposedly, then i don't mind you cracking the— supposedly, then i don't mind you cracking the whip if that's wnnt-e— you cracking the whip if that's what's necessary. _ you cracking the whip if that's what's necessary. and does what's necessary. and it does eeunt— what's necessary. and it does eeunt-ttte— what's necessary. and it does sound like dominic raab as sound to me like dominic raab as nuen— sound to me like dominic raab as nuen ne— sound to me like dominic raab as nuen ne nte— sound to me like dominic raab as much as his political failings are much as his political failings evttent— much as his political failings are evident, he— much as his political failings are evident, he doesn't sound to me ttte— are evident, he doesn't sound to me ttte ttte— are evident, he doesn't sound to me ttte ttte n— are evident, he doesn't sound to me like like a kind— are evident, he doesn't sound to me like like a kind of heinous nutty.— me like like a kind of heinous tuttv. t— me like like a kind of heinous tuttv. t tttnt.— me like like a kind of heinous bully. i think, you— me like like a kind of heinous bully. i think, you know, if veue— bully. i think, you know, if veue tt— bully. i think, you know, if you're if you're— bully. i think, you know, if you're if you're at the point wnene— you're if you're at the point wnene veue— you're if you're at the point where you're as— you're if you're at the point where you're as allegedly as happening— where you're as allegedly as happening before happening vomiting before neettnee— happening vomiting before meetings with— happening vomiting before meetings with your boss, i think you meetings with your boss, i think veu enetnttv— meetings with your boss, i think you probably have— meetings with your boss, i think you probably have to look at veuneett— you probably have to look at veuteett ne— you probably have to look at yourself as much— you probably have to look at yourself as much as saying wnnt-e— yourself as much as saying wnnt-e going— yourself as much as saying what's going on— yourself as much as saying what's going on in that meeting, teuee— what's going on in that meeting, because there's— what's going on in that meeting, because there's very little in ttte— because there's very little in ttte tnnt— because there's very little in life that would _ because there's very little in life that would make me puke eetene— life that would make me puke eetene n— life that would make me puke before a meeting. so kevin could eeutt— before a meeting. so kevin could eeutt tneee— before a meeting. so kevin could could there be— before a meeting. so kevin could could there be a— before a meeting. so kevin could could there be a benefit from eeneltnnt— could there be a benefit from some-that older,- could there be a benefit from some that older, more robust some of that older, more robust nnnneenent— some of that older, more robust nnnneenent te— some of that older, more robust management to this younger wenttenee — management to this younger workforce? now,— management to this younger workforce? ttitti management to this younger. workforce? now, a-a mix workforce? now, a bit of a mix and match. so don't don't kind of them cotton wool, but of wrap them in cotton wool, but don't be like an old school tyrant, toughness is good,

tyrant, but toughness is good, especially tyrant, but toughness is good, esptto ally tyrant, but toughness is good, esptto bej tyrant, but toughness is good, esptto be tough or just got to be tough or just pampering these people. i pampering to these people. i just can't even answer the just i can't even answer the eueetten— just i can't even answer the question because i don't buy tnte— question because i don't buy| into—assumptions into the broader assumptions tentnt—tnnt- into the broader assumptions. behind _that young behind it. you know, that young neeete— behind it. you know, that young people ne— behind it. you know, that young people are snowflake wiki weak ntnen— people are snowflake wiki weak ntnen en— people are snowflake wiki weak rather or soft— people are snowflake wiki weak rather or soft or— people are snowflake wiki weak rather or soft or i— people are snowflake wiki weak rather or soft or i just don't buy— rather or soft or i just don't buy tnte— rather or soft or i just don't buy tnte tt— rather or soft or i just don't buy into it. the— rather or soft or i just don't buy into it. the workplace now is buy into it. the workplace now te nuen— buy into it. the workplace now te nuen ee— buy into it. the workplace now is much more civilised. bullying is much more civilised. bullying te teee— is much more civilised. bullying is less accepted. _ is much more civilised. bullying is less accepted. that's a great tntne. — is less accepted. that's a great tntne. ee— is less accepted. that's a great tntng. se wnnt— is less accepted. that's a great thing. so what kind of robust tennvteun— thing. so what kind of robust behaviour that— thing. so what kind of robust behaviour that you mentioned? did behaviour that you mentioned? ntt vou— behaviour that you mentioned? did you actually— behaviour that you mentioned? did you actually see— behaviour that you mentioned? did you actually see there- behaviour that you mentioned? did you actually see there was useful and what was just, you know, corporate lawyers know, big corporate lawyers coming guy into coming into a guy coming into a room singling out one of the newest junior guys who just arrived and went, morning ladies , how are you? you know, giving a , how are you? you know, giving n ttttte— , how are you? you know, giving n ttte—tne- , how are you? you know, giving a little _the cheeks. a little rub around the cheeks wttn— a little rub around the cheeks wttn.-tnew.— a little rub around the cheeks with,-know, how- a little rub around the cheeks with, know, how grabbing his with, you know, how grabbing his eneete—etutt- with, you know, how grabbing his eneete—etutt .- with, you know, how grabbing his cheeks—stuff , just. cheeks and all this stuff, just went— cheeks and all this stuff, just wetnt nnt— cheeks and all this stuff, just weird and old— cheeks and all this stuff, just weird and old school, you know, you— weird and old school, you know, veu enn-t— weird and old school, you know, veu enn-t te— weird and old school, you know, you can't do that— weird and old school, you know, you can't do that now. that's ttte— you can't do that now. that's ttte-eununtv- you can't do that now. that's like burgundy style sexism . like ron burgundy style sexism. anvtetv—n- like ron burgundy style sexism. anybody—a return. anybody is advocating a return to those days . but. anybody is advocating a return to those days. but. but anybody is advocating a return to those days . but. but surely to those days. but. but surely you're allowed to raise your voice. you're allowed to criticise people's work because because criticise, you because if you criticise, you can , i think. sorry, can improve, i think. sorry, just to jump can improve, i think. sorry, tuet te tune tn.— can improve, i think. sorry, just to jump in, there's- ct?" sorry, just to jump in, there's a, tneee— just to jump in, there's a, tnene-e. veu— just to jump in, there's a, there's, you know, i think that

i there's, you know, i think that t tttnt— there's, you know, i think that t tntnt te— there's, you know, i think that t tntnt te n— there's, you know, i think that i think is a problem is if we neve— i think is a problem is if we nnve tnvet— i think is a problem is if we have layer upon— i think is a problem is if we have layer upon layer upon layer of have layer upon layer upon layer et-nnt— have layer upon layer upon layer of-and regulations- of rules and regulations in wettetneee— of rules and regulations in workplaces where know, we workplaces where you know, we ttetnte— workplaces where you know, we ttetnte-vew— workplaces where you know, we dictate _very nth - workplaces where you know, we dictate very nth degree dictate to the very nth degree new—tente- dictate to the very nth degree how_ relate to - dictate to the very nth degreei how—relate to each how people can relate to each etnee— how people can relate to each etnenltntnt— how people can relate to each other,ithink that— how people can relate to each other, think that is genuine other, i think that is a genuine enetten — other, i think that is a genuine problem because,— other, i think that is a genuine problem because, know, like problem because, you know, like it problem because, you know, like tt-tt.— problem because, you know, like tt-tt. tete— problem because, you know, like tt-tt. tete et— problem because, you know, like it-it, lots of us- it or loathe it, lots of us eeent— it or loathe it, lots of us eeent tne.— it or loathe it, lots of us spend the, you- it or loathe it, lots of us spend the, you know, the nntentv— spend the, you know, the nntentv et— spend the, you know, the majority of our- spend the, you know, the majority of our lives at work wttn — majority of our lives at work wttn _tnnt- majority of our lives at work with _that we - majority of our lives at worki with _that we work with the people that we work wttn — with the people that we work wttn -eu— with the people that we work with _our bosses - with the people that we work with our bosses and to with and with our bosses and to teet— with and with our bosses and to teet ttte— with and with our bosses and to feel like you're— with and with our bosses and to feel like you're constantly eteeetne— feel like you're constantly eteeetng en— feel like you're constantly stepping on eggshells is, i tttnt.— stepping on eggshells is, i tttnt—ant.- stepping on eggshells is, i think,_and, know, think, a problem. and, you know, as think, a problem. and, you know, e-eee— think, a problem. and, you know, e-eee wttn- think, a problem. and, you know, as-agree with kevin. as much as i agree with kevin tnnt— as much as i agree with kevin tnnt t— as much as i agree with kevin tnnt t ten-t— as much as i agree with kevin tnnt t tent-ee- as much as i agree with kevin that i don't go back to that i don't want to go back to you— that i don't want to go back to veu tnew.— that i don't want to go back to veu tnew. tnnt— that i don't want to go back to you know, mad men style kind of, you know, mad men style kind of, veu tnew.— you know, mad men style kind of, you know, ridiculousness, i do tttnt— you know, ridiculousness, i do think—becoming. you know, ridiculousness, i doi think—becoming too think that we are becoming too een— think that we are becoming too een-tee— think that we are becoming too sort too dependent on sort of too dependent on wertetnee— sort of too dependent on workplace regulation , too workplace regulation, too teeentent— workplace regulation, too dependent on _ workplace regulation, too dependent on air, probably in a way,— dependent on air, probably in a wnv. ntner— dependent on air, probably in a way, rather than— dependent on air, probably in a way, rather than just. that's why,— way, rather than just. that's wnv. veu — way, rather than just. that's wnv. veu tnew.— way, rather than just. that's why, you know, i— way, rather than just. that's why, you know, i jokingly say ent— why, you know, i jokingly say eett tn— why, you know, i jokingly say eett tn nte— why, you know, i jokingly say spit in his smoothie. what i netunttv— spit in his smoothie. what i actually mean— spit in his smoothie. what i actually mean is, why does this neve— actually mean is, why does this nnve te— actually mean is, why does this nnve te tnve— actually mean is, why does this have to have to— actually mean is, why does this have to have to get to the level of have to have to get to the level et ttnt — have to have to get to the level et ttnt et— have to have to get to the level of kind of complaints that we're tteeueetnn— of kind of complaints that we're tteeueetne. ne— of kind of complaints that we're discussing, as if— of kind of complaints that we're discussing, as if this was, you tnew.— discussing, as if this was, you tnew. tne— discussing, as if this was, you know, the biggest political teeue— know, the biggest political et— know, the biggest political issue of-day.- know, the biggest political issue of day. can't it issue of the day. why can't it be eenet— issue of the day. why can't it be sorted out— issue of the day. why can't it be sorted out amongst ourselves? ant— be sorted out amongst ourselves? ant-n— be sorted out amongst ourselves? ant-n rnere— be sorted out amongst ourselves? and a more informal and i think a more informal wertetnee— and i think a more informal workplace-will- and i think a more informal workplace will make workplace actually will make ennteutnrtv— workplace actually will make particularly-feel- workplace actually will make particularly feel a lot particularly workers feel a lot teet— particularly workers feel a lot teet n— particularly workers feel a lot more feel a lot— particularly workers feel a lot more feel a lot less like

tnew-re— more feel a lot less like they're being- more feel a lot less like they're being policed all the tne.— they're being policed all the ttne. etnv. — they're being policed all the time. okay. kittie. i they're being policed all the time. okay. i t?" time. okay. well, i come from an era was at the news of the era i was at the news of the world back in those on those newsroom floors where it was absolute savage. and often time you would leave place you would leave the place shaking, went shaking, but you always went back and you strove back the next day and you strove to better. think there's to be better. i think there's something it's got you something in that. it's got you going there. there's going out there. there's been loads of comments coming in and go a quick few of those. go for a quick few of those. now, paul, if rob has bullied clerical sack if clerical typists, sack him. if he robustly the he dealt robustly with the pubuc he dealt robustly with the public oxbridge £100,000 public school oxbridge £100,000 a was something in a year. daddy was something in the service before me. sir the civil service before me. sir humphrey's then they humphrey's then they, then they should suck it up. so he's basically saying, if you're well off entitled, deserve to off and entitled, you deserve to be treated a bit more harshly. that might go well with that might go down well with echr mike oh dear. i've echr paul. mike oh dear. i've been bullied absolute whingers. and servants said if and the civil servants said if he's guilty of he's found guilty of this terrible offence, they terrible grievous offence, they will walk fantastic go will all walk away. fantastic go for a long, long walk. that's mike. not very big on the sympathy so far , richard. it's sympathy so far, richard. it's got everything to do with delicate work. shy snowflakes. they will all be okay if captain

softy gets in. i think he's talking about your friend. there keir starmer and margaret, a labour mp, has been suspended and being investigated. why isn't this getting as much coverage and no mention of him in parliament? a little bit of bias there. okay. that was a superb debate to open the show. coming up, tory rebels succeed in toughening up the government's illegal migration bill, blocking judges who try to stop, deport asian flights

trolling. you're listening to gb news radio . welcome back to news radio. welcome back to newten— news radio. welcome back to newten ce— news radio. welcome back to dewbs& co with— news radio. welcome back to dewbs& co with me,- t 3: welcome back to dewbs& co with me, martin nnutnev— dewbs& co with me, martin nnutnev tvtv— dewbs& co with me, martin daubney kyiv me company until 7:00— daubney kyiv me company until teee te— daubney kyiv me company until teee te tttn— daubney kyiv me company until 7:00 is ella whelan, an author nnt— 7:00 is ella whelan, an author and columnist— 7:00 is ella whelan, an author and columnist for— 7:00 is ella whelan, an author and columnist for spiked online. and and columnist for spiked online. ant tevtn— and columnist for spiked online. and kevin craig— and columnist for spiked online. and kevin craig is— and columnist for spiked online. and kevin craig is a former tnteur— and kevin craig is a former labour councillor and the ceo of communications— labour councillor and the ceo of communications company ler. it's communications company ler. we teen— communications company ler. it's been superb— communications company ler. it's been superb so— communications company ler. it's been superb so far. got a tent— it's been superb so far. got a tent et— it's been superb so far. got a load of comments. come in about the load of comments. come in about tne tet— load of comments. come in about tne tee etern— load of comments. come in about the rob story. really got you going-— the rob story. really got you going- tet-e— the rob story. really got you going. let's read— the rob story. really got you going. let's read out a couple nee.— going. let's read out a couple nere. ene— going. let's read out a couple here. one from _ going. let's read out a couple here. one from ches who said the rneernt— here. one from ches who said the modern workplace _ here. one from ches who said the modern workplace is not kinder. it's modern workplace is not kinder. tt-e new— modern workplace is not kinder. tt-e rnere— modern workplace is not kinder. it's now more fearful as people are it's now more fearful as people tee— it's now more fearful as people tee eenet— it's now more fearful as people are too scared to— it's now more fearful as people are too scared to say what they

tntnt. — are too scared to say what they think—balancing. think. good little balancing eetnt— think. good little balancing pent-nnt— think. good little balancing point and tracey is saying point there and tracey is saying my eetnten— point there and tracey is saying my eetnten te— point there and tracey is saying my opinion is that— point there and tracey is saying my opinion is that the civil eervnnte— my opinion is that the civil servants are— my opinion is that the civil servants are doing their very teet— servants are doing their very teet te— servants are doing their very teet te eet— servants are doing their very best to get the— servants are doing their very best to get the tories out . so best to get the tories out. so ene-e— best to get the tories out. so ene-e envtne— best to get the tories out. so she's saying that— best to get the tories out. so she's saying that this is teeentne— she's saying that this is. becoming—they becoming politicised. they do not becoming politicised. they do net-eetne— becoming politicised. they do not-being called- becoming politicised. they do not being called out for not like being called out for eetne— not like being called out for eetne ter— not like being called out for being for not— not like being called out for being for not doing a good job. t hey— being for not doing a good job. tnew eneutt— being for not doing a good job. they should-be— being for not doing a good job. they should be sacked every they should all be sacked every tne— they should all be sacked every tne-ew— they should all be sacked every time-cry bullying,- they should all be sacked every time cry bullying, they time they cry bullying, they eneutt — time they cry bullying, they should nonsense. should go, this is nonsense. wett— should go, this is nonsense. wett. veure— should go, this is nonsense. well, you're not— should go, this is nonsense. well, you're not missing about veur— well, you're not missing about veur-tnere— well, you're not missing about your-there okay,- well, you're not missing about your there okay, on to your words. there okay, on to next— your words. there okay, on to our next debate— your words. there okay, on to our next debate now . tory rebels our next debate now. tory rebels tnve—tn— our next debate now. tory rebels have—in forcing- our next debate now. tory rebels have _in forcing the l have succeeded in forcing the eevernnent— have succeeded in forcing the government to _ have succeeded in forcing the government to accept an nnentnent— government to accept an amendment to- government to accept an amendment to toughen up the intent— amendment to toughen up the illegal migration— amendment to toughen up the illegal migration bill that will ernewere— illegal migration bill that will empower ministers ignore empower ministers to ignore tntertn — empower ministers to ignore interim injunctions from the tureeenn— interim injunctions from the european court— interim injunctions from the european court of human rights to european court of human rights te-teeenee— european court of human rights to deportee flights. to stop deportee flights. tnwvere— to stop deportee flights. tnwvere-ne- to stop deportee flights. lawyers no doubt once to stop deportee flights.- lawyers-no doubt once again lawyers will no doubt once again say lawyers will no doubt once again env tt-e— lawyers will no doubt once again env tt-e n— lawyers will no doubt once again say it's a violation— lawyers will no doubt once again say it's a violation of international law. ella should we wnnt— international law. ella should we care what the— international law. ella should we care what the european court of we care what the european court et nunnn— we care what the european court of human rights— we care what the european court of human rights thinks ? kittie. of human rights thinks? well, it's of human rights thinks? well, tt-e tt— of human rights thinks? well, tt-e tt nntet— of human rights thinks? well, it's it makes you— of human rights thinks? well, it's it makes you sound- of human rights thinks? well, it's it makes you sound like a certain kind of person to say no. but i think that there's a you know, the to untangle the very messy web of immigration in this country. and what we think about it. i think you have to have a starting point which says

that laws that are this was what brexit was all about, laws that are made in this country by democratically elected representatives should be able to be out without being to be carried out without being thwarted by a policy. you should be able to carry out without being thwarted by by individuals who are democratically who are not democratically elected by citizens of this country. so kind the country. so that's kind of the starting point, think, which starting point, i think, which is is a problem. you is that there is a problem. you don't have to have been a fan of the rwanda policy. i'm certainly not. you don't even have to not. and you don't even have to want to reduce immigration. i don't to understand that controlling your borders as a bafic controlling your borders as a basic of a kind of fundamental point of a sovereign nation is very important . so, you know, as very important. so, you know, as much as i don't trust the conservative party to do the or actually anyone in politics at the moment to do justice to the debate around immigration, i think that this is probably a good. what about probably a good start? what about the rwanda plan?— start? what about the rwanda etene-uten- start? what about the rwanda etnne-tttee t- start? what about the rwanda plan?-like? i think. plan? don't you like? i think tnnt— plan? don't you like? i think ttnt-n— plan? don't you like? i think ttnt-n rent- plan? don't you like? i think that a real problem with that there's a real problem with trvtne— that there's a real problem with trvtne te— that there's a real problem with trvtng te expen— that there's a real problem with trying to export your problems wttn— trying to export your problems with immigration to another eeuntrv. — with immigration to another eeuntrv. t— with immigration to another country. i mean,- with immigration to another country. ..

country. i mean, you know, i think on a basic level, it's not a it's not a long term solution. neither is it. you know , neither is it. you know, something that is , i think, something that is, i think, justifiable to send people to a completely different country with a completely different culture . and, you know, either culture. and, you know, either people sort of who are in favour of the random plan say, well, i'd love to go and live there. and i think a lot of the time that sps so but i think more importantly for me, what i and you know, what i would like to see a more holistic see is a more holistic discussion about the whole immigration just immigration system, not just asylum , but the way asylum seeking, but also the way in government the in which the government at the moment trying play this moment is trying to play this double saying , well, we double game of saying, well, we need certain jobs, need people to do certain jobs, whether lorries, pick whether it's drive lorries, pick fruit, but we don't want people coming in and, know, in coming in and, you know, in other they're now, other ways they're now, you know, story today is know, part of the story today is that loosening, planning that they're loosening, planning to legal routes for to loosen up legal routes for asylum. whole asylum. you know, the whole thing bit of a mess at the thing is a bit of a mess at the moment. i think. we don't know what we want to do with immigration post brexit. there's been characterisation been a characterisation of everybody who you know, everybody who you know, everybody for brexit everybody who voted for brexit being anti—immigrant. i think

the of the government's kind of run with and and i, you with that. and you and i, you know, we brexiteers that know, we know as brexiteers that that's and i think that's not true. and i think actually there's certainly actually there's i certainly don't that the public don't think that the public voted for loosening borders voted for loosening our borders and more people in and letting more people to in do jobs. kevin, want to bring you jobs. kevin, i want to bring you in jobs. kevin, i want to bring you tn tt— jobs. kevin, i want to bring you tn t t— jobs. kevin, i want to bring you in now, if i can.— jobs. kevin, i want to bring you in now, if i can. it— kevin, i want to bring you in now, if i can. it sounds like teuen— in now, if i can. it sounds like teuen tntt— in now, if i can. it sounds like teuen tntt-tt- in now, if i can. it sounds like tough talk,-it just- in now, if i can. it sounds like tough talk, it just that tough talk, but is it just that is tough talk, but is it just that te teee— tough talk, but is it just that te teee tnte— tough talk, but is it just that is does this actually have teeth or is does this actually have teeth er-vet— is does this actually have teeth er-vet rnere— is does this actually have teeth or yet more posturing that or is it yet more posturing that we-ve—teterei we've seen many times before tren— we've seen many times before from .conservative - from the conservative government? well my view would be government? well my view would te tnnt— government? well my view would be tnnt tne — government? well my view would be that the conservative government _ be that the conservative government mean, government just haven't. i mean, i government just haven't. i mean, ttttnt— government just haven't. i mean, ttttnt wnnt-e— government just haven't. i mean, i think what's said i think what's just been said is quite the quite true, that the conservative government just hasn't effective in hasn't been very effective in deaung hasn't been very effective in dealing with the whole situation of immigration and asylum. you know, the amount of time it takes for the home office to process people is just vastly increased under government increased under this government . and the rwandan thing there is i think it's okay for british people of any ethnic background actually to say they and this was behind brexit, some of it. and that's actually fair enough that they wanted more control over country's over their country's borders. you're racist to say that, you're not a racist to say that, you know, and that's what some you know, and that's what some

you know, and that's what some you know, people with my politics said politics misunderstood said about right. okay about brexit. right. that's okay to however, this to feel like that. however, this government just is not effective. they've been here for 13 and the system is in a 13 years and the system is in a mess . and much, you know , mess. and much, you know, rwanda, my issues with it, i just don't think it's would be a very effective and i don't think it's going to be very cost effective. and i found it a little bit weird when the home secretary went to rwanda, was commenting on the the commenting on the decor of the accommodation and people accommodation and these people might you know, might stay in, but you know, just properly, just do it properly, be efficient. that's what efficient. that's that's what the government hasn't done. can i ask about labour's i ask you about labour's eeettten— i ask you about labour's position keir position on this? because keir stnrner— position on this? because keir starmer-brexit- starmer a bit like brexit renttw— starmer a bit like brexit renttv. ne-e— starmer a bit like brexit really. he's had more positions on really. he's had more positions en—tnnn- really. he's had more positions en—tnnn tne- really. he's had more positions. on_than the common on immigration than the common sum. — on immigration than the common sum. .of— on immigration than the common sum. .of-he-s— on immigration than the common sutra. .of-he's more- sutra. first of all, he's more or less— sutra. first of all, he's more or less-borders.- sutra. first of all, he's more or less borders. refugees or less open borders. refugees wetome— or less open borders. refugees welcome-the— or less open borders. refugees welcome the yvette cooper or less open borders. refugees wel(position the yvette cooper or less open borders. refugees wel(position then yvette cooper or less open borders. refugees wel(position then yv

wttet— labour have a very clear policy wttet wee— labour have a very clear policy which was how_ labour have a very clear policy which was how to— labour have a very clear policy which was how to get a grip on ttte— which was how to get a grip on ttte ent— which was how to get a grip on ttte ent tt— which was how to get a grip on this and it didn't— which was how to get a grip on this and it didn't involve tttette— this and it didn't involve tttgtte te— this and it didn't involve flights to rwanda. c : flights to rwanda. it involved tackling the criminal gangs who were millions were profiting, making millions from this terrible traffic in human beings about special national crime agency task force to get to grips with the issue and sorting out the delays in the basic thing of this government doesn't do process and admin rail. and one of the reasons, as was said earlier, is that it's been so internally focussed fighting for power. however many prime ministers the bonng however many prime ministers the boring job of governing well in an uncorrupt, efficient way has been just overlooked. ella i want to turn now to leaving the echr. it's something that suella braverman throws— c ? it's something that suella braverman throws out c 3 it's something that suella braverman throws out as a bit of red braverman throws out as a bit of tet meet— braverman throws out as a bit of tet meet te— braverman throws out as a bit of red meat to brexiteers. other people— red meat to brexiteers. other peepte eewtne— red meat to brexiteers. other people saying that would be a wetetten— people saying that would be a wetetten et— people saying that would be a violation of our— people saying that would be a violation of our human rights etttgettene— violation of our human rights etttgettene .— violation of our human rights obligations . but— violation of our human rights obligations . but let's not let's obligations. but let's not let's net— obligations. but let's not let's not tweet— obligations. but let's not let's not forget that— obligations. but let's not let's not forget that recently italy teetetet— not forget that recently italy declared emergency not forget that recently italy. declared-emergency . declared a state of emergency. ante— declared a state of emergency. me te— declared a state of emergency. arnie in poland— declared a state of emergency. arnie in poland has thrown up tweet— arnie in poland has thrown up barbed-borders.- arnie in poland has thrown up barbed borders. they're barbed wire borders. they're ette— barbed wire borders. they're also members— barbed wire borders. they're also members of eu, never also members of the eu, never wttnt— also members of the eu, never mtnt ttte— also members of the eu, never mind the echr.— also members of the eu, never mind the echr. so— also members of the eu, never mind the echr. so is this not teettw— mind the echr. so is this not teeny-teete— mind the echr. so is this not really leave seeing any really about leave seeing any teetetetten— really about leave seeing any legislation legislatively body?

it's legislation legislatively body? tt-e abett— legislation legislatively body? tt-e about t— legislation legislatively body? it's about a lack— legislation legislatively body? it's about a lack of political wttt— it's about a lack of political wttt te— it's about a lack of political wttt to get— it's about a lack of political will to get tough. vic“ will to get tough. well, i think you know, the funny thing about brexit is that you know, because it's i think all of this comes back to that is that while brexit voters like me might have said that this is the start of voting to leave the european union is the start of having more of a, you know, a more democratic engagement in politics. i think a lot of the british political establishment and many conservatives saw it as just a kind of tick box exercise , and they didn't really grasp the democrats spirit that brexit entailed. i was trying to describe this on lbc last night, and i had a terrible time trying to get my point across, which is that, you know, at the same time as there being this kind of drive to have, you know, ask tough questions about controlling borders, about laws in this country, who's in charge and all that kind of thing. the, you know, our politicians don't seem to want to be able to get to grips with that. and leaving the to me is , you the echr seems to me is, you know, something that's necessary

if are genuine albie if you are genuine albie going to have discussion about to have a discussion about having control of laws in this country. and people say that that end to human that would be an end to human rights we'd up rights and we'd all end up working, you know, 23 hours a day. you know, have a day. and you know, have a terrible lives . people forget, terrible lives. people forget, i think too often who it is that secured most of the fundamental rights that we have workers secured workers rights, not eu bods maternity rights were secured by women arguing for them. they weren't a gift given down by some kind of technocrat in brussels. and so i think a little bit of perspective here and maybe a little bit of ambition to say what kind of future could we have outside of these institutions these undemocratic institutions . it's also worth bearing in mitt.— . it's also worth bearing in mitt. etew— it's also worth bearing in mind. okay, canada, new zealand, tweete,— mind. okay, canada, new zealand, tweete—net- australia, they're obviously not in australia, they're obviously not tn—ttew-te- australia, they're obviously not tn—ttew-te net- in europe, but they're not thew-te— in europe, but they're not ttew-te net— in europe, but they're not they're not members this they're not members of this and they— they're not members of this and thew-te— they're not members of this and thew-telqwte- they're not members of this and they-to.quite well. - they're not members of this and they to quite well. they they seem to do quite well. they are they seem to do quite well. they tteetet— they seem to do quite well. they tteetet ee— they seem to do quite well. they are treated as liberal havens. ttte— are treated as liberal havens. ttte tee— are treated as liberal havens. this has really— are treated as liberal havens. this has really got going this has really got you going out-teete- this has really got you going out social media, as out there on social media, as wet-t— out there on social media, as wet-t-etwewe- out there on social media, as. wet-t-etwewe-en you'd expect. it always does on gb you'd expect. it always does on ee -eetetne- you'd expect. it always does on gb _echoing the - you'd expect. it always does on gb echoing the point gb news bev echoing the point mete— gb news bev echoing the point mete eetttet— gb news bev echoing the point made earlier, other countries ignored— made earlier, other countries tgwetet ttte— made earlier, other countries ignored the echr can't ignored the echr so why can't wee— ignored the echr so why can't wee .— ignored the echr so why can't wee t-e— ignored the echr so why can't wee t-e tet— ignored the echr so why can't we? i-a lot of- ignored the echr so why can't we? i a lot of people out we? i think a lot of people out teete— we? i think a lot of people out there-eetee— we? i think a lot of people out there-agree with- we? i think a lot of people out there agree with that. there would agree with that.

ttte— there would agree with that. ttte-yew— there would agree with that. lisa-your guests- there would agree with that. lisa your guests says lisa one of your guests says tt-e— lisa one of your guests says tt-e wrong— lisa one of your guests says to wrong to— lisa one of your guests says it's wrong to send asylum eeeete— it's wrong to send asylum. seekers—because it's wrong to send asylum- seekers_because it's seekers to rwanda because it's woeeeen—t- seekers to rwanda because it's worse._send them worse. it's wrong to send them to o— worse. it's wrong to send them to o eomptetetw— worse. it's wrong to send them to a completely different country— to a completely different country different cultures. country with different cultures. et country with different cultures. tt—te- country with different cultures. tt—te thet- et cetera. but why is that ttttetent— et cetera. but why is that different coming to different to them coming to tnetont— different to them coming to e.gt..d_..e_ different to them coming to england are completely england? we are a completely ttttetent— england? we are a completely different-country- england? we are a completely different country and different culture country and outtwe— different culture country and culture .where _ different culture country and culture where they have come culture to where they have come ttom — culture to where they have come trom-eomotetetw— culture to where they have come from completely different from with completely different woutee. — from with completely different values. that's— from with completely different values. that's another good pott— values. that's another good potnt .— values. that's another good potnt . ant— values. that's another good point . and let's— values. that's another good point . and let's go to daniel. point. and let's go to daniel. ttte— point. and let's go to daniel. ttte trottem— point. and let's go to daniel. the problem of— point. and let's go to daniel. the problem of deportation lies wttt— the problem of deportation lies wttt ow— the problem of deportation lies with our judiciary— the problem of deportation lies with our judiciary and home with ourjudiciary and home otttee— with ourjudiciary and home office civil— with ourjudiciary and home office civil servants . that's office civil servants. that's a sweet— office civil servants. that's a eupett tange— office civil servants. that's a superb range of— office civil servants. that's a superb range of opinions . thank superb range of opinions. thank you to— superb range of opinions. thank you to eenettt— superb range of opinions. thank you for sending them in. okay. so you for sending them in. okay. so coming— you for sending them in. okay. so coming-next,— you for sending them in. okay. so coming-next, is- you for sending them in. okay. so coming next, is labour now so coming up next, is labour now toettte— so coming up next, is labour now toettte wooe— so coming up next, is labour now hostile place gender hostile place for gender etttteot— hostile place for gender critical feminists? one of their ttte— critical feminists? one of their ttte eettotntw— critical feminists? one of their mps certainly thinks so

forward from this. join us here on gb news the people's channel. britain is watching . and welcome britain is watching. and welcome back to dewbs & co with me, back to dewbs& co with me, martin daubney keeping me company tonight until 7:00. ella whelan is an author and eotumntet— ella whelan is an author and columnist spiked online and columnist for spiked online and kette— columnist for spiked online and tewn craig— columnist for spiked online and tewn craig te— columnist for spiked online and kevin craig is a— columnist for spiked online and kevin craig is a former labour eowtetttot— kevin craig is a former labour councillor and— kevin craig is a former labour councillor and ceo of comms councillor and the ceo of comms company— councillor and the ceo of comms company ttnt.— councillor and the ceo of comms company ler. he's— councillor and the ceo of comms company ler. he's been superb so company ler. he's been superb co tan— company ler. he's been superb co tan ton-ve— company ler. he's been superb so far. you've certainly got

tneee— so far. you've certainly got these socials_ so far. you've certainly got these socials going with your comments. let's— these socials going with your comments. let's read a few more of comments. let's read a few more ot tnoce— comments. let's read a few more ot tnoce oat— comments. let's read a few more ot tnoce out on— comments. let's read a few more of those out on the— comments. let's read a few more of those out on the situation of ttocttne— of those out on the situation of ttocttne tne— of those out on the situation of blocking the deportation of ttteeatc— blocking the deportation of ttteeatc .— blocking the deportation of illegals . margaret says most illegals. margaret says most oannecct— illegals. margaret says most countries ignore— illegals. margaret says most countries ignore these rules except— countries ignore these rules except weat, — countries ignore these rules except weak, weak . tory england except weak, weak. tory england so except weak, weak. tory england so tnte— except weak, weak. tory england so tntc ten-t— except weak, weak. tory england so this isn't just— except weak, weak. tory england so this isn't just about a tatow— so this isn't just about a labour issue. _ so this isn't just about a labour issue. there's no faith in labour issue. there's no faith tn tne— labour issue. there's no faith in the conservatives either, and it's in the conservatives either, and we gone— in the conservatives either, and we going to,— in the conservatives either, and we going to, .— in the conservatives either, and it's going to, i think, really attect— it's going to, i think, really affect them— it's going to, i think, really affect them on— it's going to, i think, really affect them on the doorstep, donate— affect them on the doorstep, nonatt caye— affect them on the doorstep, donald says. we— affect them on the doorstep, donald says. we do not need to speed— donald says. we do not need to cpeet ao— donald says. we do not need to cpeet no acwtan— donald says. we do not need to speed up asylum applications. tne— speed up asylum applications. tne natontw— speed up asylum applications. the majority of— speed up asylum applications. the majority of them are economic migrants and possibly cnntnatc. — economic migrants and possibly criminals. turn— economic migrants and possibly criminals. turn the boats t— criminals. turn the boats around. end— criminals. turn the boats around. end of- criminals. turn the boats around. end of echoing , of around. end of echoing, of tne— around. end of echoing, of course, the fact- around. end of echoing, of course, the fact 29 terrorists around. end of echoing, of coursidentified. 29 terrorists around. end of echoing, of coursidentified. that'srorists around. end of echoing, of coursidentified. that's just:s around. end of echoing, of coursidentified. that's just the were identified. that's just the tnat— were identified. that's just the tnat we— were identified. that's just the ones that we about. so ones that we know about. so tnantc— ones that we know about. so thanks-those— ones that we know about. so thanks those comments. thanks for those comments. tteace— thanks for those comments. please _coming i thanks for those comments.| please _coming in thanks for those comments. - please—coming in till please keep them coming in till the please keep them coming in till tne ent— please keep them coming in till tne ent ot— please keep them coming in till the end of the— please keep them coming in till the end of the show. okay on to our the end of the show. okay on to next— the end of the show. okay on to our next debate— the end of the show. okay on to our next debate now. labour mp totte— our next debate now. labour mp rosie duffield_ our next debate now. labour mp rosie duffield has— our next debate now. labour mp rosie duffield has spoken to the natty— rosie duffield has spoken to the natty-today,— rosie duffield has spoken to the daily today, saying daily express today, saying one-c— daily express today, saying one-c teen— daily express today, saying she's been hounded and harassed wttntn— she's been hounded and harassed within-labour— she's been hounded and harassed within-labour-her. within the labour party for her gentee— within the labour party for her gender critical— within the labour party for her gender critical views. the field nac— gender critical views. the field nae teen— gender critical views. the field has been singled— gender critical views. the field has been singled out by trans acttwctc— has been singled out by trans activists for— has been singled out by trans activists for saying biologic te— activists for saying biologic sex is immutable and cannot be ctanget— sex is immutable and cannot be cnanaet. sne— sex is immutable and cannot be changed. she also— sex is immutable and cannot be changed. she also says keir stamen— changed. she also says keir starmer leadership team left her teotatet— starmer leadership team left her isolated during— starmer leadership team left her isolated during this abuse . so

isolated during this abuse. so newn— isolated during this abuse. so newn ac— isolated during this abuse. so newn ac a— isolated during this abuse. so kevin, as a labour man, let's stan— kevin, as a labour man, let's start wttn— kevin, as a labour man, let's start wttn wou— kevin, as a labour man, let's start with you. has the labour party— start with you. has the labour eanw got— start with you. has the labour eanw got a— start with you. has the labour party got a woman problem? no so tnat-c— party got a woman problem? no so tnat-c a— party got a woman problem? no so tnat-c a snott— party got a woman problem? no so that's a short answer— party got a woman problem? no so that's a short answer . let's go that's a short answer. let's go no— that's a short answer. let's go tnto tne— that's a short answer. let's go tnto tne tnto— that's a short answer. let's go into the into the— that's a short answer. let's go into the into the detail . why into the into the detail. why woutt— into the into the detail. why woutt teta— into the into the detail. why would keir starmer and talking about— would keir starmer and talking about no— would keir starmer and talking about his changing positions eaten— about his changing positions eattten ne— about his changing positions earlier, he initially was going to tact— earlier, he initially was going to tact tne— earlier, he initially was going to back the snp's gender recognition— to back the snp's gender recognition bill to the hills, tut— recognition bill to the hills, tut wnen— recognition bill to the hills, tut wnen ne— recognition bill to the hills, but when he saw it sink in the sun— but when he saw it sink in the sun nonn— but when he saw it sink in the sun nonn ot— but when he saw it sink in the snp north of the— but when he saw it sink in the snp north of the border, he cnaneet— snp north of the border, he cnanget ntc— snp north of the border, he changed his mind. then he said eet-etc— changed his mind. then he said eet-etc ot— changed his mind. then he said 99.9% of women— changed his mind. then he said 99.9% of women can't have a tente— 99.9% of women can't have a oentc .— 99.9% of women can't have a pentc , tutt— 99.9% of women can't have a pentc , tuct onto— 99.9% of women can't have a penis , just 0.1% from the truth. penis, just o.i% from the truth. yep,— penis, just o.i% from the truth. ven, ne— penis, just o.i% from the truth. ven ne ttt— penis, just o.i% from the truth. ven ne ttt cay— penis, just 0.1% from the truth. yep, he did say that. and let's tet-c— yep, he did say that. and let's tet-c tace— yep, he did say that. and let's let's face facts. _ yep, he did say that. and let's let's face facts. rosie duffield's_ let's face facts. rosie duffield's testimony of how one-c— duffield's testimony of how one-c teen— duffield's testimony of how she's been treated is a stain on tne— she's been treated is a stain on tne tatoun— she's been treated is a stain on the labour party.— she's been treated is a stain on the labour party. well, he tttnt— the labour party. well, he tttnt ne— the labour party. well, he didn't he didn't say that. quote.— didn't he didn't say that. quote. to— didn't he didn't say that. quote, he attributed- didn't he didn't say that. quote, he attributed to him. if you watched the clips back in full. however, what is sad is that a labour mp feels the way that a labour mp feels the way that rosie does. i actually have a very high regard her. her a very high regard for her. her record in public life. she won a seat in kent when it was a very difficult time to so. i think difficult time to do so. i think she's been a champion for women. on abuse and a lot of on domestic abuse and a lot of labour mps that i know think

that she's a really good member of parliament. there is definitely work to be done by the labour party leadership in trying to improve. it looks like the relationship with rosie duffield, who i think is a decent person who says things that a lot of people agree with. do you think this issue is going to taunt— do you think this issue is going to haunt starmer— do you think this issue is going to haunt starmer during the genera— to haunt starmer during the general election or do people not— general election or do people not teattw— general election or do people not really care?— general election or do people not really care? is— general election or do people not really care? is this like a necta— not really care? is this like a netta tttnt— not really care? is this like a media thing that— not really care? is this like a media thing that people get teattw— media thing that people get teattw net— media thing that people get really net up— media thing that people get really het up about quite tucttttet— really het up about quite justified obe— really het up about quite justified obe so amongst women who justified obe so amongst women wno teet— justified obe so amongst women wno teet tnat— justified obe so amongst women who feel that their— justified obe so amongst women who feel that their safety is being— who feel that their safety is being endangered places being endangered in places like cwtnntne— being endangered in places like cwtnntng toots— being endangered in places like swimming pools ,_ being endangered in places like swimming pools , in prisons swimming pools, in prisons and on nocottat— swimming pools, in prisons and on hospital wards— swimming pools, in prisons and on hospital wards in rape crisis centres-to— on hospital wards in rape crisis centres,-do trans- on hospital wards in rape crisis centres, do trans women centres, why do trans women tecewe— centres, why do trans women tecewe tne — centres, why do trans women deserve the right— centres, why do trans women deserve the right to access to tnoce— deserve the right to access to tnoce cacecn— deserve the right to access to those spaces ? _ deserve the right to access to those spaces ? eunice those spaces? well, the whole debate i mean , i think what the debate i mean, i think what the pubuc debate i mean, i think what the public want is just they want to see their politicians talking clearly and being able to go down the pub or the cafe and just give clear answers to clear questions. keir starmer can't say— questions. keir starmer can't say wnat— questions. keir starmer can't say wnat a— questions. keir starmer can't say what a woman- questions. keir starmer can't say what a woman is- : keir starmer can't say what a woman is and he's not tatttng— say what a woman is and he's not tatttng cteanw. — say what a woman is and he's not talking clearly. well— say what a woman is and he's not talking clearly. well it's very ctean — talking clearly. well it's very ctean vou— talking clearly. well it's very clear. you know,- talking clearly. well it's very clear. /:::. talking clearly. well it's very clear. 4:3. it i talking clearly. well it's very clear. v/zz. it i clear. you know, this 99.9% is not actually what he said. he there are people who feel very

strongly this issue, but strongly on this issue, but labour has got some work to do with the relationship with rosie. duffield for sure. ella what's on this? do you what's your take on this? do you think the labour— what's your take on this? do you think the labour party- what's your take on this? do you think the labour party has- ” tit“ 57 do you think the labour party has got a woman problem?— think the labour party has got a woman problem? well, i mean, i know— woman problem? well, i mean, i know-quote— woman problem? well, i mean, i know-quote that— woman problem? well, i mean, i know quote that starmer know one quote that keir starmer did know one quote that keir starmer eta—catt— know one quote that keir starmer ttt—catt wnen- know one quote that keir starmer did _said when he i know one quote that keir starmeri did—said when he was did say when he said when he was ascet— did say when he said when he was actet, te— did say when he said when he was actet, tc tt— did say when he said when he was asked, is it right— did say when he said when he was asked, is it right that women onw— asked, is it right that women only women— asked, is it right that women only women have a cervix or conetttna— only women have a cervix or something,.said,- only women have a cervix or something, said, that's something, he said, no, that's not— something, he said, no, that's not nont- — something, he said, no, that's not want. vou— something, he said, no, that's not right. v/tzzt. not right. you know, he's he's and the thing is, he doesn't have a service. he's a he's a woman, have a cervix. he wasn't talking about what biological women might have different, women who might have different, you differences their you know, differences in their anatomy he talking about, anatomy he was talking about, including the including trans women in the category women let's be real category of women. let's be real here. that's that's the issue that party is still that the labour party is still adamant the fact we're not adamant in the fact we're not talking know, the talking about, you know, the fact that lots of women don't have children, so they're not mothers or the kind of various types that there are. types of women that there are. we're including we're talking about, including trans in category of trans women in the category of women. labour party women. and the labour party believes should call believes that you should call trans women. and that's trans women women. and that's the that we're having the debate that we're having here. the that's the here. and that's the that's the thing that rosie duffield says is wrong. and thing is wrong. and that's the thing that most in the country

that most people in the country agree with, that being agree with, which is that being agree with, which is that being a is markedly a trans woman is markedly different being woman. different from being a woman. and this, to my mind, there's absolutely nothing wrong or bigoted saying that. bigoted about saying that. i think the problem with the labour party and the reason why this isn't just a media storm, the reason why is important the reason why it is important is not about is because it's not just about talking clearly, about talking clearly, but it's about whether you are able to whether or not you are able to tell truth whether or tell the truth and whether or not you are able back up not you are able to back up things that we that, you know, are important to the way in which we relate to each other in society, understanding there are differences between and differences between men and women. tell you, there's women. i'll tell you, there's nothing makes you realise nothing that makes you realise the differences between men and women more than when you have a kid, as rosie duffield has has as i've just done. and suddenly you think, what is it about this whole debate that people don't get ? there are still ways in get? there are still ways in which women , because we are which women, because we are women , are held back in society women, are held back in society from abortion rights to crisis, in childcare, all i can give you a whole list of things. and if the party and many the labour party and many conservatives, by the way, because let's not forget that

the conservatives the ones the conservatives are the ones that into this that brought us into this whole mess of mess with the question of self—id originally, that's true. but politicians seem but many, many politicians seem to unwilling get behind to be unwilling to get behind women like rosie duffield and say, actually, being a woman yourself , say, actually, being a woman yourself, you might have an idea about this. and instead we kind of gaslight and say that the of gaslight her and say that the problem is with her. you're absolutely correct. worth pointing absolutely correct. worth . potnttng—ot pointing out maria miller of course, when— pointing out maria miller of course, when she was the chair pointing out maria miller of co the , when she was the chair pointing out maria miller of co the women;he was the chair pointing out maria miller of co the women and vas the chair pointing out maria miller of co the women and equalitiesiir of the women and equalities conntttee,— of the women and equalities. committee,_kind of the women and equalities- committee,_kind of committee, she had these kind of newc— committee, she had these kind of wewcltt— committee, she had these kind of wewcltt penny— committee, she had these kind of views if penny mordaunt views as if penny mordaunt came to-nen— views as if penny mordaunt came to-her. caroline— views as if penny mordaunt came to her. caroline nokes to haunt her. caroline nokes to— to haunt her. caroline nokes came to haunt— to haunt her. caroline nokes came to haunt penny during the teatetcntn— came to haunt penny during the leadership campaign. kevin, leadership campaign. when kevin, do leadership campaign. when kevin, to—gotng- leadership campaign. when kevin, to—gotng to- do you think kyiv is going to nave— do you think kyiv is going to nave-tate— do you think kyiv is going to naveltate a— do you think kyiv is going to have take a more fact driven have to take a more fact driven nocttton— have to take a more fact driven nocttton on— have to take a more fact driven position on this— have to take a more fact driven position on this and reverse tenet— position on this and reverse tenet ant— position on this and reverse ferret and distance himself away tron— ferret and distance himself away tron tne— ferret and distance himself away from the calamity— ferret and distance himself away from the calamity that's enauttet— from the calamity that's engulfed the— from the calamity that's engulfed the snp over self—id? wett— engulfed the snp over self—id? ttett wnat— engulfed the snp over self—id? ttett wnat .— engulfed the snp over self—id? well what i like— engulfed the snp over self—id? well what i like about what one-c— well what i like about what one-c tone— well what i like about what she's done is— well what i like about what she's done is he— well what i like about what she's done is he looked at the scottant— she's done is he looked at the scotland debate _ she's done is he looked at the scotland debate and he said wntcn— scotland debate and he said wntcn .— scotland debate and he said which i think— scotland debate and he said which i think hopefully we could all which i think hopefully we could att agree— which i think hopefully we could att agree on— which i think hopefully we could att agree te— which i think hopefully we could all agree on, is that politicians- all agree on, is that politicians do need to be ntnttut— politicians do need to be mindful of— politicians do need to be mindful of the british public in in mindful of the british public in tn tneee— mindful of the british public in in these debates. ti; til: in these debates. he was very near— in these debates. he was very clear about that and you know it looks to me like nicola sturgeon

and the team around her would not listening to the sort of broad swathe of the scottish population and i think what i like about keir, who does know what a woman is, who's the proud father of a daughter and a son, what i like about him is his interest in listening to people and not talking down to them. but, you know, it's a complex debate respect , you know, debate and i respect, you know, and i'm listen, i'm not going to contradict to people contradict or respond to people who about the subject who know more about the subject than honest. well than i do, to be honest. well let's to you again then. let's turn to you again then. do you we've kind of do you think we've kind of reacnet— do you think we've kind of reached emperor's new reached the emperor's new ctotnec— reached the emperor's new clothes moment? trans? clothes moment? peak trans? tue-ve— clothes moment? peak trans? we've international we've seen the international otwnntc— we've seen the international olympic—gettingl we've seen the international- olympic_getting tough we've seen the international- olytrans_getting tough we've seen the international olytrans people getting tough we've seen the international olytrans people in getting tough we've seen the international olytrans people in women'stough on trans people in women's snort. — on trans people in women's snort. _totaw- on trans people in women's sport. _today the. sport. we saw today the extraordinary— sport. we saw today the extraordinary sign of miriam cones.— extraordinary sign of miriam coatec. tow— extraordinary sign of miriam coates, tory mp,— extraordinary sign of miriam coates, tory mp, campaigning on this coates, tory mp, campaigning on tnto teeue— coates, tory mp, campaigning on this issue, joining— coates, tory mp, campaigning on this issue, joining hands more or teee— this issue, joining hands more or teee wttn— this issue, joining hands more or less with rosie— this issue, joining hands more or less with rosie duffield, a ttnt— or less with rosie duffield, a ttnt ot— or less with rosie duffield, a kind of armistice— or less with rosie duffield, a kind of armistice moment. the atuttc— kind of armistice moment. the atuttc are— kind of armistice moment. the adults are back— kind of armistice moment. the adults are back in— kind of armistice moment. the adults are back in the room. do you— adults are back in the room. do you tttnt— adults are back in the room. do you tntnt we— adults are back in the room. do you think we are— adults are back in the room. do you think we are seeing the end of you think we are seeing the end ot tnte— you think we are seeing the end of this madness— you think we are seeing the end of this madness or— you think we are seeing the end of this madness or are we just tetng— of this madness or are we just being optimistic— of this madness or are we just being optimistic by saying that? i being optimistic by saying that? r tttnt— being optimistic by saying that? r tttnt tnat— being optimistic by saying that? i think that there's— being optimistic by saying that? i think that there's an— i think that there's an interesting thing going on, which is that there because of the question of what happened in scotland who was

scotland with the rapist who was categorised a woman, all of categorised as a woman, all of this has brought to the this has been brought to the forefront. people forefront. i think people are suddenly the madness suddenly realising the madness of to of suggesting that it's okay to throw and women into throw men and women into biological women into biological men and women into the hospital ward or into the same hospital ward or into the same hospital ward or into the same hospital ward or into the same or things like the same prison or things like that. i think think there that. so i think i think there has a turning point. the has been a turning point. the thing about is thing i'm concerned about is that shouldn't all that actually this shouldn't all be the very small be about the very small instances where safety is a problem. so like in a prison or like a rape crisis centre , like in a rape crisis centre, there's a much bigger discussion to here about how we to be had here about how we categorise each other and how we relate to one another. and about the believing in the differences , you know, sex difference, biological reality, all of that, which is actually a different discussion from whether or not a rapist hiroshi. it's rapist is called a hiroshi. it's a much bigger broader a much bigger, broader discussion know, the discussion about, you know, the positives of what it's like to grow up as a teenager and have solidarity among your own sex. you know, all these things that are actually i want to start having this discussion in a positive and say, what are positive light and say, what are the things about saying the good things about saying that women's spaces that there are women's spaces and spaces? is are

and men's spaces? is what are the that? why why the positives in that? why why is important rather than is that important rather than continuously this in in continuously framing this in in terms of fear, i, i come from the from old fashioned the from the old fashioned political left. and i remember wnen— political left. and i remember wnenlwac— political left. and i remember whenlwas-left's- when it was the left's obligation— when it was the left's obligation and their moral duty to protect— obligation and their moral duty to protect women. _ obligation and their moral duty to protect women. come to protect women. we've come a tong—okay.- long way since then. okay. contng— long way since then. okay. contng-nur- long way since then. okay. coming dup being coming up is the dup being tutttet— coming up is the dup being bullied into— coming up is the dup being bullied into accepting the watertng— bullied into accepting the watering down of the union between— watering down of the union between northern ireland and creat— between northern ireland and great britain— between northern ireland and great britain .—

welcome back to dewbs& co with me, martin daubney keeping company until7:oo. ella me, martin daubney keeping company until 7:00. ella whelan is an company until 7:00. ella whelan to an autnor— company until 7:00. ella whelan is an author and— fiat .. . v do ella whelan is an author and columnist for spiked— is an author and columnist for spiked online— is an author and columnist for spiked online and kevin craig is atorner— spiked online and kevin craig is a former-councillor- spiked online and kevin craig is a former councillor and a former labour councillor and cro— a former labour councillor and cto ot— a former labour councillor and cto ot conne— a former labour councillor and ceo of comms company ler. it's teen— ceo of comms company ler. it's been lcracttng — ceo of comms company ler. it's been lcracking show— ceo of comms company ler. it's been cracking show far . been a cracking show so far. ento— been a cracking show so far. onto-segment- been a cracking show so far. onto segment for onto our final segment for tontgnt— onto our final segment for tonightirishi _ onto our final segment for tonight rishi sunak has tonight. rishi sunak has regonetty— tonight. rishi sunak has reportedly told the dup that tney— reportedly told the dup that tney enoutt— reportedly told the dup that they should accept his winter tranewort— they should accept his winter framework deal— they should accept his winter framework deal and back into framework deal and get back into power— framework deal and get back into oweror-— framework deal and get back into noweror- net— framework deal and get back into power or risk seeing

power sharing or risk seeing a unttet— power sharing or risk seeing a united ireland.— power sharing or risk seeing a united ireland. the windsor tranewort— united ireland. the windsor framework reduces trade barriers tne— framework reduces trade barriers tne uten— framework reduces trade barriers across the irish sea, but keeps tonnern— across the irish sea, but keeps northern ireland— across the irish sea, but keeps northern ireland locked into the eu. northern ireland locked into the en rtegutatet— northern ireland locked into the eu. regulated free orbit. while the eu. regulated free orbit. while tne our— eu. regulated free orbit. while tne our caye— eu. regulated free orbit. while the dup says it— eu. regulated free orbit. while the dup says it fundamentally unerrntnect— the dup says it fundamentally undermines ireland's undermines northern ireland's ntace— undermines northern ireland's ntace tn— undermines northern ireland's gtace tn tne— undermines northern ireland's place in the uk.— undermines northern ireland's place in the uk. kevin let's start— place in the uk. kevin let's start wttn— place in the uk. kevin let's start with you. _ place in the uk. kevin let's start with you. are the dup tetng— start with you. are the dup being bullied?— start with you. are the dup being bullied? is that even gocctttee— being bullied? is that even possible? well,— being bullied? is that even possible? well, have you ever tutttete — possible? well, have you ever bullied? you— possible? well, have you ever bullied? you ever- possible? well, have you ever bullied? vi./t .. bullied? you ever seen arlene foster be bullied? you know, but the serious question is that why isn't that expensive ? isn't that very expensive? written yours talked written intro of yours talked about the point that the people in northern ireland have been polled in the last few polled a lot in the last few weeks and they're favour of weeks and they're in favour of storm reconvening, and the storm and reconvening, and the politicians is locally elected getting with the job. why has getting on with the job. why has no mentioned in the no one mentioned in that the people northern ireland, people of northern ireland, unionist, , protestant, unionist, catholic, protestant, republican , nationalist, all of republican, nationalist, all of them want their local politicians to govern them , politicians to govern them, their, you know, their politics. and the dup are a part of that spectrum.— and the dup are a part of that spectrum, though. and they they ctatet— spectrum, though. and they they ctatet att— spectrum, though. and they they stated all along— spectrum, though. and they they stated all along that they felt tnat— stated all along that they felt tnat tne — stated all along that they felt that the windsor— stated all along that they felt that the windsor framework did not meet— that the windsor framework did not meet tne— that the windsor framework did not meet the duties of their red tnee— not meet the duties of their red ttnec .— not meet the duties of their red lines , particularly— not meet the duties of their red lines , particularly around the lines, particularly around the regutator— lines, particularly around the regulator control of strasbourg

. vat, — regulator control of strasbourg . var. att— regulator control of strasbourg .wg, att corte— regulator control of strasbourg , vat, all sorts of— regulator control of strasbourg , vat, all sorts of things. so i tney-re— , vat, all sorts of things. so i mean, they're allowed to stand by tnetr— mean, they're allowed to stand by their ground.— mean, they're allowed to stand by their ground. _ mean, they're allowed to stand by their ground. �*vft�*ti;.. wit”ti; by their ground. well, they are and i'm allowed to say that as someone deeply respectful of the million plus people who have a unionist in northern unionist tradition in northern ireland who've done great things for and all of for freedom and all sorts of things over hundreds and, you know, years very know, the years in a very troubled history. but the people of northern ireland want to see normal political life resumed. can i ask you, as a labour man, kyiv starmer came out and said he would vote for the windsor framework without even seeing what was in it. well, why is tnate — what was in it. well, why is that? well, he'd received briefings on the on the on the contents. you know, there been a very good level of cooperation and you know, he's very and he you know, he's very supportive ireland supportive of northern ireland getting normal . you getting back to normal. and, you know, westminster know, for the westminster government to governing government not to be governing the province, it because, as the province, is it because, as he that a future labour he knows that a future labour government with this catflap left open to the eu could get closer alignment? it's been an open secret— closer alignment? it's been an open secret that— closer alignment? it's been an open secret that he— f 37 it's been an open secret that he wants to get a ot— open secret that he wants to get a more of a kind— open secret that he wants to get a more of a kind of— open secret that he wants to get a more of a kind of single cuto—

a more of a kind of single customs market- a more of a kind of single customs market type arrangement tact— customs market type arrangement tact-tne— customs market type arrangement tact-tne tu— customs market type arrangement back the eu, despite what back with the eu, despite what the back with the eu, despite what tne—ue- - back with the eu, despite what tne—ue- wettl the brexit vote told us. well, uetng— the brexit vote told us. well, uetng tne— the brexit vote told us. well, using the phrase— the brexit vote told us. well, using the phrase catflap, when tatttng— using the phrase catflap, when we're talking about politics in tonnern— we're talking about politics in northern ireland— we're talking about politics in northern ireland and ireland is i'm northern ireland and ireland is tn not— northern ireland and ireland is tn not cure— northern ireland and ireland is i'm not sure the— northern ireland and ireland is i'm not sure the way to go, he was over there _ i'm not sure the way to go, he was over there helping reform the was over there helping reform tne pottce— was over there helping reform the police service— was over there helping reform the police service of northern retant. — the police service of northern ireland. he's— the police service of northern ireland. he's got— the police service of northern ireland. he's got a- the police service of northern ireland. gtit : the police service of northern ireland. git. : f ireland. he's got a deep respect for that part of our country. and, you know, everybody signed up to a poll on the future of a unhed up to a poll on the future of a united ireland at some point in the future, if that's what people want. yeah, ella, i want to bring you in here because i know you spoke earlier about it. this seems to be the direction of this seems to be the direction ot trawet — this seems to be the direction ot trawet toe— this seems to be the direction of travel. joe biden, of course, no-cnowtng- of travel. joe biden, of course, no-showing his- of travel. joe biden, of course, no showing his irish no nakedly showing his irish rteputttcan— no nakedly showing his irish republican—last. republican credentials last week.— republican credentials last week. to— republican credentials last week. to you— republican credentials last week. do you think that's where neattng— week. do you think that's where we're heading towards now? trott— we're heading towards now? not. t— we're heading towards now? not. t ton-t— we're heading towards now? well, i don't know- we're heading towards now? well, i don't know about joe biden plastic biden being a plastic paddy, meaning much the future meaning that much for the future of ireland. you know, american politicians love to try and find the green in their blood when they come over. but i think that, you know, there is no normal for northern ireland. it's the 25th anniversary of the good agreement and ever it's the 25th anniversary of the good that agreement and ever it's the 25th anniversary of the good that was reement and ever it's the 25th anniversary of the good that was isement and ever it's the 25th anniversary of the good that was is stitchedlnd ever it's the 25th anniversary of the good that was is stitched up ever it's the 25th anniversary of the good that was is stitched up byer since that was is stitched up by politicians from the rest of the

world coming in and deciding what was going to be the future of that part ireland stitched of that part of ireland stitched up in terms of the fact that there has never been a proper process of democracy in in northern ireland since that day . i mean, was things were . i mean, it was things were very, bad beforehand no very, very bad beforehand and no one fighting to one wanted the fighting to continue. the good friday continue. but the good friday agreement proven agreement has proven to be completely unworkable power completely unworkable and power sharing whether sharing is unworkable. whether it's rules about fertiliser to now a quite significant, you know, as much as i am a united islander as a brexiteer, i think the way in which northern ireland has been treated, you know, the united kingdom know, part of the united kingdom up been abysmal. up until now has been abysmal. and, you know, there is a there is a real mess happening in northern ireland at the moment. you know, have decided you know, the dup have decided to losers, consent in to withhold losers, consent in the election and they're wrong for other hand, for doing so. on the other hand, you understand their you can understand their grievance being around grievance by being pushed around with ireland with the northern ireland protocol and now with the windsor framework. can i ask can i ask you, with friends like ursula dillon, keir starmer ursula von dillon, keir starmer , like bill clinton , a globalist like bill clinton and biden singing their and joe biden singing their praises windsor praises for the windsor

framework a brexiteer, does framework as a brexiteer, does that not get your alarm bells ringing? it because ringing? it does, because i tttnt— ringing? it does, because i tntnt tnat— ringing? it does, because i think that,-know,- ” g “q7” it does, because i think that, know, the think that, you know, the ttggect— think that, you know, the biggest-with- think that, you know, the biggest with ireland think that, you know, the- biggest-with ireland has biggest scandal with ireland has teen— biggest scandal with ireland has teen-ucet— biggest scandal with ireland has teen-ucet ac— biggest scandal with ireland has been-used as a- biggest scandal with ireland has been used as a political been always used as a political toottatt— been always used as a political football throughout whole football throughout the whole procec— football throughout the whole process - brexit - football throughout the whole process - brexit as - football throughout the whole process brexit as either process since brexit as either peopte— process since brexit as either peopte tatttng— process since brexit as either people talking up the prospect of people talking up the prospect ot-to— people talking up the prospect of-to troubles- people talking up the prospect of-to troubles as. of the return to troubles as a kind— of the return to troubles as a kind of— of the return to troubles as a kind of a— of the return to troubles as a kind of a fear— of the return to troubles as a kind of a fear factor in pushing peopte— kind of a fear factor in pushing people in— kind of a fear factor in pushing people in one— kind of a fear factor in pushing people in one direction. but also— people in one direction. but also there— people in one direction. but also there has— people in one direction. but also there has been, you know, for brexit all its merits, definitely , you know, set the definitely, you know, set the cat amongst the pigeon in ireland terms of the question ireland in terms of the question of democracy raised. of democracy has been raised. and the only future and i think the only future for to settle questions in northern ireland a border poll. okay. ireland is a border poll. okay. well, we'll have to stop- okay. well, we'll have to stop you there,— well, we'll have to stop you there, ena— well, we'll have to stop you there, ella and— well, we'll have to stop you there, ella and kevin, you've been— there, ella and kevin, you've been _tonight.. been magnificent tonight. a couple— been magnificent tonight. a couple-quick— been magnificent tonight. a couple quick comments before couple of quick comments before we—niget— couple of quick comments before we—niget farage-l we hand over to nigel farage. erg—n— we hand over to nigel farage. erg—n has- we hand over to nigel farage. erg—it has been. we hand over to nigel farage. erg it has been the erg jones says it has been the me— erg jones says it has been the me has— erg jones says it has been the me has been— erg jones says it has been the nie has been-to- erg jones says it has been the nie has been to the uk and nie has been loyal to the uk and our nie has been loyal to the uk and owes—h— nie has been loyal to the uk and our—has-meml our parliament has pushed them under— our parliament has pushed them under-m— our parliament has pushed them under-m a— our parliament has pushed them under it's a complete under the bus. it's a complete tand— under the bus. it's a complete land grab— under the bus. it's a complete and grab ay— under the bus. it's a complete land grab by the— under the bus. it's a complete land grab by the eu. and lisa, why— land grab by the eu. and lisa, why is— land grab by the eu. and lisa, why is aa— land grab by the eu. and lisa, why is it always— land grab by the eu. and lisa, why is it always the unionists that—ao— why is it always the unionists that to compromise why is it always the unionists. that-to compromise .7 that have have to compromise? what— that have have to compromise? what-nationalists- that have have to compromise? what nationalists ever what have the nationalists ever done— what have the nationalists ever done ao— what have the nationalists ever done to give— what have the nationalists ever done to give in?— what have the nationalists ever done to give in? so do you agree with— done to give in? so do you agree wiiii iiiaii— done to give in? so do you agree with that? okay,— done to give in? so do you agree with that? okay, thank you for ionigiii-s— with that? okay, thank you for ionigiii-s-i-ii— with that? okay, thank you for tonight's-i'll be- with that? okay, thank you for tonight's i'll be back tonight's show. i'll be back tomorrow. .fact, - tonight's show. i'll be back tomorrow. fact, won't. tomorrow. in fact, i won't. i tink— tomorrow. in fact, i won't. i think-might- tomorrow. in fact, i won't. i think-might be. tomorrow. in fact, i won't. i. think-might be back. think michelle might be back.

but think michelle might be back. iii—iaiage- think michelle might be back. iii—iaiaae isl but anyway, nigel farage is coming— but anyway, nigel farage is coming-ai— but anyway, nigel farage is coming-at the- but anyway, nigel farage is coming at the of the coming up at the top of the hour. — coming up at the top of the hour. -siick- coming up at the top of the hour. stick around. how hour. please stick around. how ieiio— hour. please stick around. how. hello _ mcgivern hello again. it's aidan mcgivern here the met office staying here from the met office staying clear the north during the clear in the north during the next 24 hours, but steyn next 24 hours, but mark steyn change in the south where cloudier conditions will move in along with showers or longer spells rain . i've got spells of rain. i've still got high pressure to the high pressure in charge to the north uk and that's north of the uk and that's maintaining an easterly breeze throughout whole of the throughout the whole of the country. that high pressure country. but that high pressure is waning its influence and is waning in its influence and that's going to allow some weather to return to england and wales. certainly additional cloud in on thursday cloud moving in on thursday evening. some showers at first before perhaps some longer spells of rain into eastern parts of england. by the end of the with a breeze here as the night with a breeze here as well the cloud. it's going to well as the cloud. it's going to stay free for to 6 or stay frost free for to 6 or 7 celsius. but for scotland, northern ireland, northern england, clear skies and lighter winds of winds will allow a touch of frost, especially central frost, especially for central and with and northern scotland, with temperatures in rural spots temperatures here in rural spots below freezing on a sunny start, though in the north first thing. meanwhile, across england and wales, got cloudier wales, we've got cloudier conditions of rain conditions and a band of rain moving central and then

moving across central and then towards southwestern parts by the that wet weather the afternoon. that wet weather will be persistent in places, but it will break up more generally into showers with some sunshine in between. however, it will be a cooler day with 12 or 13 in the south whilst we keep the warmth across northwest scotland 16 to 18 celsius here or even 19 and some of the warmer spots. but for the north—east of scotland, some mistiness around the coast that will persist on and off through the and it will return more the day and it will return more widely into friday night. meanwhile, rain meanwhile, outbreaks of rain start to affect northern england. southern scotland and northern ireland by the start of the a few showers the weekend. a few showers further also some further south, but also some mist fog for southern mist and fog for southern counties and south counties of england and south wales . as saturday, wales. as we begin saturday, that disappears. there'll that soon disappears. there'll be sunshine time, but be some sunshine for a time, but perhaps some more persistent rain pushes into the south—west of by saturday of england by saturday afternoon. got this afternoon. and we've got this persistent for persistent band of rain for northern ireland, southern scotland northern scotland as well as northern england, a few heavy england, along with a few heavy showers across central parts. so the turns more unsettled the weather turns more unsettled over next few days with rain over the next few days with rain or and it will also

or showers. and it will also feel cooler .

oh it's thursday night. and this is farage alok sharma , live from farage alok sharma, live from aberdeen . please welcome your aberdeen. please welcome your host, nigel farage. thank you. thank you, james. very good . thank you, james. very good. excellent. now, tonight show, going— excellent. now, tonight show, going in— excellent. now, tonight show, we're going to be talking all ininas— we're going to be talking all things scotland. _ we're going to be talking all things scotland. the downward sniiai— things scotland. the downward sninai oi— things scotland. the downward aaiiai oi ine— things scotland. the downward spiral of the snp— things scotland. the downward spiral of the snp . does that spiral of the snp. does that

ine— spiral of the snp. does that mean the alba— spiral of the snp. does that mean the alba party have