well good morning and welcome to the carame— well good morning and welcome to the camilla tominey_ well good morning and welcome to the camilla tominey show. spring has sprung,— the camilla tominey show. spring has sprung, which— the camilla tominey show. spring has sprung, which is why i'm wearing—like- wearing yellow. i look like i'm about— wearing yellow. i look like i'm about-be— wearing yellow. i look like i'm about be pollinated now. about to be pollinated now. a spring— about to be pollinated now. ai spring—we spring has sprung, but are we sau— still in a winter of discontent eeeeuee— still in a winter of discontent because with— still in a winter of discontent because with more action because with more strike action teeming,— looming, i'm going to be speaking— looming, i'm going to be speaking secretary looming, i'm going to be speaking|secretary show, transport secretary on the show, to find out what the government

is to find out what the government ie—emkeel is doing to stop these strikes, which—«i which are now threatening to disrupt— which are now threatening to disrupt the— which are now threatening to disrupt the fa— which are now threatening to disrupt the fa cup eurovision. seme— some people might say that's no bad thing and the epsom derby else—in- also i'm wearing yellow in heheu— also i'm wearing yellow in- honour—amazing. honour of something amazing. thee-e—ehewl that's happened on the show today.— that's happened on the show- hem—convince today. we've managed to convince a today. we've managed to convince e—ee— today. we've managed to convince e—he-eh. i a liberal democrat to come on. so a liberal democrat to come on. selvhee— a liberal democrat to come on. so.vince cable,— a liberal democrat to come on. so vince cable, former so sir vince cable, the former party— so sir vince cable, the former party-going- so sir vince cable, the former pehy-eehe he- so sir vince cable, the former party-going to be. party leader, is going to be joining— party leader, is going to be joining-along- party leader, is going to be joining along with joining me, along with tim heuehheh— joining me, along with tim heughteh .— joining me, along with tim loughton .-the- joining me, along with tim loughton . the mp joining me, along with tim- loughton .-the-mp that loughton. he's the tory mp that heme— loughton. he's the tory mp that wants he— loughton. he's the tory mp that wants to change _ loughton. he's the tory mp that wants to change to— loughton. he's the tory mp that wants to change to the immigration- wants to change to the immigration bill. so that it can accommodate— immigration bill. so that it can accommodate routes for accommodate safe routes for ehhheh— accommodate safe routes for ehhheh — accommodate safe routes for children on. i'm— accommodate safe routes for children on. i'm also to children on. i'm also going to be children on. i'm also going to he—weh— children on. i'm also going to he—weh .- children on. i'm also going to he—weh , whel be speaking to well, who else huh— be speaking to well, who else but—britain's. but sirjohn curtis, britain's t0p— but sirjohn curtis, britain's hep peheheh— but sirjohn curtis, britain's top pollster, about the local eheehehe— top pollster, about the local elections on _ top pollster, about the local elections on thursday. and in a gb elections on thursday. and in a he newe— elections on thursday. and in a gb news exclusive, we've got the he— gb news exclusive, we've got the first interview— gb news exclusive, we've got the first interview with— gb news exclusive, we've got the first interview with sir anthony seheeh — first interview with sir anthony seheeh hhe — first interview with sir anthony seldon, the author of johnson at ten:— seldon, the author of johnson at heh-he— seldon, the author of johnson at heh-he e— seldon, the author of johnson at heh-he a great— seldon, the author of johnson at ten, is a great book about ten, which is a great book about hehe-e— ten, which is a great book about boris's premiership— ten, which is a great book about boris's premiership , which is boris's premiership, which is quite— boris's premiership, which is quhe eye— boris's premiership, which is quite eye opening for very many reasons. so we'll— quite eye opening for very many reasons. so we'll get into that a reasons. so we'll get into that e-heher— reasons. so we'll get into that e-heher .— reasons. so we'll get into that a-later. let's- reasons. so we'll get into that a-later. let's go- reasons. so we'll get into that a later. let's go through a little later. let's go through the—eh,- the headlines, first of all, suheey— the headlines, first of all, sunday telegraph has got an hhehhew— sunday telegraph has got an interview with— sunday telegraph has got an interview with ron desantis . i interview with ron desantis. i support— interview with ron desantis. i support badenoch her war on support badenoch in her war on vehem— support badenoch in her war on heheh, the— support badenoch in her war on wokery, the sunday times goes with— wokery, the sunday times goes with archbishop— wokery, the sunday times goes with archbishop will tell hhhehe— with archbishop will tell millions pledge allegiance to veer— millions pledge allegiance to your king— millions pledge allegiance to your hhg hee— millions pledge allegiance to your king erg the observer ooeehh— your king erg the observer ooeehh go— your king erg the observer doesn't go with— your king erg the observer doesn't go with that line, huhhhh— doesn't go with that line, funnily enough. instead it goes

with— funnily enough. instead it goes with starmer._ funnily enough. instead it goes with starmer. i'll— funnily enough. instead it goes with starmer. i'll be bolder ohoh— with starmer. i'll be bolder ohoh huh— with starmer. i'll be bolder than blair on— with starmer. i'll be bolder than blair on public service reorrhr— than blair on public service reorrhr .— than blair on public service reorrhr . uh,— than blair on public service reform . um, this comes with a reform. um, this comes with a honey— reform. um, this comes with a policy announcement by the labour— policy announcement by the labour leader— policy announcement by the labour leader about housing the suhooy— labour leader about housing the suhooy horror— labour leader about housing the suhooy rrhrror .— labour leader about housing the sunday mirror. 150 million on eeeurrry— sunday mirror. 150 million on security hikes— sunday mirror. 150 million on security hikes up— sunday mirror. 150 million on security hikes up coronation hur— security hikes up coronation huh rhe— security hikes up coronation bill the mirror— security hikes up coronation bill the mirror not fans of the corohorhoh. — bill the mirror not fans of the coronation. probably unsurprising the sunday express are unsurprising the sunday express rehe— unsurprising the sunday express here or— unsurprising the sunday express are fans of the— unsurprising the sunday express are fans of the coronation hhe-e— are fans of the coronation king's solemn— are fans of the coronation king's solemn vow to serve us oh.— king's solemn vow to serve us oh. h-e— king's solemn vow to serve us all. it's splashes— king's solemn vow to serve us all. it's splashes the mail on suhooy— all. it's splashes the mail on suhooy goes— all. it's splashes the mail on sunday goes with we are all hvheo— sunday goes with we are all hrheo ro— sunday goes with we are all invited to swear— sunday goes with we are all invited to swear our allegiance to invited to swear our allegiance ro rhe— invited to swear our allegiance ro rhe hhg. — invited to swear our allegiance ro rhe hhg. so— invited to swear our allegiance to the king. so as— invited to swear our allegiance to the king. so as you can see, corohorroh— to the king. so as you can see, coronation is— to the king. so as you can see, coronation is a— to the king. so as you can see, coronation is a big— to the king. so as you can see, coronation is a big theme of the sunday— coronation is a big theme of the suhooy papers— coronation is a big theme of the sunday papers today. and again , sunday papers today. and again, rhor-e— sunday papers today. and again, rhor-e eehoeo— sunday papers today. and again, that's echoed by— sunday papers today. and again, that's echoed by the sun on suhooy. — that's echoed by the sun on suhooy. hurry— that's echoed by the sun on sunday. harry in— that's echoed by the sun on sunday. harry in a hurry. it's hor— sunday. harry in a hurry. it's hor rhe— sunday. harry in a hurry. it's not the first— sunday. harry in a hurry. it's not the first time— sunday. harry in a hurry. it's not the first time that's been euro. — not the first time that's been euro. rhe— not the first time that's been euro. he he— not the first time that's been said. this is about harry maybe hohhe— said. this is about harry maybe rhohhg o— said. this is about harry maybe making a whistlestop visit to hrhoh— making a whistlestop visit to hrhoh hor— making a whistlestop visit to britain for the— making a whistlestop visit to britain for the coronation. not eroyhe— britain for the coronation. not eroyhg along-— britain for the coronation. not staying along. no cups of tea uhh— staying along. no cups of tea uhh hh— staying along. no cups of tea with his nearest— staying along. no cups of tea with his nearest and dearest to discuss— with his nearest and dearest to discuss rhor— with his nearest and dearest to discuss that autobiography. now here— discuss that autobiography. now here hrhe— discuss that autobiography. now here hrhg h— discuss that autobiography. now let's bring in another writer, horrh— let's bring in another writer, martin townsend. legendary former— martin townsend. legendary former editor— martin townsend. legendary former editor of— martin townsend. legendary former editor of the sunday express.— former editor of the sunday rooreee. hy— former editor of the sunday express. my legendary former hose,— express. my legendary former hoes, ore— express. my legendary former boss, and also— express. my legendary former boss, and also the legendary homer— boss, and also the legendary former editor— boss, and also the legendary former editor of— boss, and also the legendary former editor of okay magazine . former editor of okay magazine. i former editor of okay magazine.

r rheoh— former editor of okay magazine. r youre— former editor of okay magazine. r you o— former editor of okay magazine. i mean, you're a legend in your hrerhhe— i mean, you're a legend in your hrerhhe .— i mean, you're a legend in your own lifetime . a— i mean, you're a legend in your own lifetime . a legendary. own lifetime. a legendary. i'll reu— own lifetime. a legendary. i'll hen—h- own lifetime. a legendary. i'll reu—h r-uer- own lifetime. a legendary. i'll tell—it just i'm tell you what, isn't it just i'm ohry—heeouee- tell you what, isn't it just i'm only—because i. tell you what, isn't it just i'm. only—because i once tell you what, isn't it just i'm only for because i once tell you what, isn't it just i'm only for you because i once tell you what, isn't it just i'm only for you now:ause i once tell you what, isn't it just i'm only for you now need i once tell you what, isn't it just i'm only for you now need monarch worked for you now need monarch of worked for you now need monarch or he— worked for you now need monarch or he rhy— worked for you now need monarch of the day. that's— worked for you now need monarch of the day. that's what we're ehrhhhe. — of the day. that's what we're entitling. all— of the day. that's what we're entitling. all of— of the day. that's what we're entitling. all of these coronation _ entitling. all of these coronation stories , martin, coronation stories, martin, heeouee— coronation stories, martin, because what— coronation stories, martin, because what do we think about this because what do we think about the proh— because what do we think about the than for— because what do we think about this plan for the— because what do we think about this plan for the public to pledge— this plan for the public to pledge allegiance to charles iii? pledge allegiance to charles rue ureth— pledge allegiance to charles rue rreh r— pledge allegiance to charles iii.7 well i think— pledge allegiance to charles iii? well i think it's pledge allegiance to charles iii.7 well i think it's very odd. iii.7 well i think it's very odd. r hern— iii.7 well i think it's very odd. i mean, previous— iii.7 well i think it's very odd. i mean, previous it— iii.7 well i think it's very odd. i mean, previous it was- iii.7 well i think it's very odd. i mean, previous it was it- iii.7 well i think it's very odd. i mean, previous it was it was a ceremony where some peers pledged allegiance to the to the king. and it was part of the ceremony. and that's all fine. theidea ceremony. and that's all fine. the idea of the public being asked to pledge allegiance to me, just into a lot me, this just plays into a lot of the critiques around the coronation a lot of anti—monarchists who will say, oh, monarch is losing oh, well, the monarch is losing popularity because this feels a bit like, are we as popular as we thought? we find we thought? maybe we should find out from the people directly insecure . it just there is insecure. it just there is a little bit insecure motty little bit of insecure motty about it. and equally, i think it also into that it also plays into that narrative which is of slightly narrative which is of a slightly vain king. i want to be i want to be loved. i want to how to be loved. i want to know how people mean , i'm not i'm to be loved. i want to know how ptmonarchist mean , i'm not i'm to be loved. i want to know how ptmonarchist myself, i'm not i'm to be loved. i want to know how ptmonarchist myself . i'm not i'm to be loved. i want to know how ptmonarchist myself . and �*iot i'm to be loved. i want to know how ptmonarchist myself . and buti'm to be loved. i want to know how ptmonarchist myself . and but in a monarchist myself. and but i think you are a monarchist ,

think if you are a monarchist, you have be of where you have to be aware of where the dangers are for the counter narrative to that will be we need be inclusive need to be as inclusive as possible. and idea of just possible. and the idea of just peere— possible. and the idea of just peere eweorhe— possible. and the idea of just. peers swearing—seems peers swearing allegiance seems all peers swearing allegiance seems oh o— peers swearing allegiance seems oh o hir— peers swearing allegiance seems all a bit mediaeval_ peers swearing allegiance seems all a bit mediaeval and second of all a bit mediaeval and second oh oh,— all a bit mediaeval and second oh oh, r— all a bit mediaeval and second of all, i suppose— all a bit mediaeval and second of all, i suppose there's this ro— of all, i suppose there's this sense to which— of all, i suppose there's this sense to which he does need some reohrrrhhe— sense to which he does need some reaffirming because— sense to which he does need some reaffirming because he's got these— reaffirming because he's got these enormous— reaffirming because he's got these enormous shoes to fill, all these enormous shoes to fill, oh eohhg— these enormous shoes to fill, all coming after— these enormous shoes to fill, all coming after his mother, oueeh— all coming after his mother, queen elizabeth ii who even hepuhheoh— queen elizabeth ii who even republican ones— queen elizabeth ii who even republican ones struggled to tho— republican ones struggled to the huh— republican ones struggled to find fault with.— republican ones struggled to find fault with. yeah but i think— find fault with. yeah but i think that's— find fault with. yeah but i think that's part of the problem — think that's part of the problem r— think that's part of the problem. think that's part of the- problem. i think this i think this plays into that narrative that not as popular that perhaps he's not as popular as the queen or, know, that as the queen or, you know, that since the queen sort of passed passed away six months ago, that perhaps the sort of respect of the is slightly , you the monarchy is slightly, you know, little bit . and know, dwindled a little bit. and i personally see this whole thing about making the whole thing about making the whole thing inclusive diverse and thing inclusive and diverse and all of that coronation i want i want a big feast of pageantry . i want a big feast of pageantry. i want a big feast of pageantry. i want to see some extraordinary ceremonies going on about the cost of living crisis. hasn't hasn't cost of living crisis. hasn't hoeh-r rhe— cost of living crisis. hasn't hasn't the coronation- t l . g rt; hasn't hasn't the coronation got to be vorue— hasn't the coronation got to be value for— hasn't the coronation got to be value for money— hasn't the coronation got to be value for money in— hasn't the coronation got to be value for money in these straitened _ value for money in these straitened times? argtznz;

straitened times? i agree. but i shu— straitened times? i agree. but i still think being asked to pledge allegiance to the king feels very game of thrones to me. doesn't like the me. it doesn't feel like the british it on the day. british be doing it on the day. martin but i'm saying martin of course, but i'm saying that i think a lot of people will feel a bit odd about that, strangely. do think people strangely. do you think people are strangely. do you think people ore-ro— strangely. do you think people ore-ro teet— strangely. do you think people are-to feel odd- strangely. do you think people are-to feel odd about- are going to feel odd about harry— are going to feel odd about harry—sol are going to feel odd about. harry—so we harry being in a hurry? so we hear— harry being in a hurry? so we hear-rhe— harry being in a hurry? so we hear-the duke- harry being in a hurry? so we hear-the duke of- harry being in a hurry? so we. hear-the duke of-is hear that the duke of sussex is going— hear that the duke of sussex is going-h— hear that the duke of sussex is gohe-h oh— hear that the duke of sussex is gohe-h on he- hear that the duke of sussex is going in on the friday hear that the duke of sussex is going go in on the friday hear that the duke of sussex is going go to in on the friday hear that the duke of sussex is going go to thei on the friday hear that the duke of sussex is going go to the ceremony'iday hear that the duke of sussex is going go to the ceremony ,iay hear that the duke of sussex is going go to the ceremony , and night, go to the ceremony, and then—oe- night, go to the ceremony, and rheh—oe eoohl night, go to the ceremony, and then—as soon asj then possibly leave as soon as he— then possibly leave as soon as the crown— then possibly leave as soon as the crown has— then possibly leave as soon as the crown has been placed upon his tether-e— the crown has been placed upon his father's head— the crown has been placed upon his father's head because he uohre— his father's head because he home-hook- his father's head because he wants-back for- his father's head because he wants back for his son wants to get back for his son archie-e— wants to get back for his son archie's fourth— wants to get back for his son archie's fourth birthday. back in archie's fourth birthday. back h—r— archie's fourth birthday. back h—r wouru- archie's fourth birthday. back h—r wouru sayl archie's fourth birthday. back. in_| would say is in la. well, all i would say is that i think for any father with a fourth birthday sort of party looming, knowing what small children are like, knowing probably what your wife is like, you've got to be there. you've got there. i'm not got to be there. i'm not particularly this particularly surprised by this story. if was me, story. i think if it was me, i would come in. i would do what i was to do, ask to do, was required to do, ask to do, do my best, and then i'd to do my best, and then i'd want to go with my. but go back and be with my. but weren't hoping go back and be with my. buti weren't-hoping with weren't the royals hoping with heehoh— weren't the royals hoping with meghan montecito, meghan back in montecito, that this meghan back in montecito, that the court— meghan back in montecito, that the court he— meghan back in montecito, that this could be the— meghan back in montecito, that this could be the golden opportunity— this could be the golden opportunity to particularly? i mean,-william- opportunity to particularly? i mean, william and harry,

mean, i think william and harry, there— mean, i think william and harry, rhor-e h— mean, i think william and harry, there h o— mean, i think william and harry, that's in a different situation. rhet— that's in a different situation. that relationship . but charles that relationship. but charles ahe— that relationship. but charles and hurry— that relationship. but charles and harry clearly the king wants to hunt— and harry clearly the king wants to hrhg hhh — and harry clearly the king wants to thee hhh h— and harry clearly the king wants to bring him in from the cold as any— to bring him in from the cold as any loving— to bring him in from the cold as any loving father— to bring him in from the cold as any loving father would, right? yeah— any loving father would, right? veoh — any loving father would, right? veoh huh— any loving father would, right? veoh hut. you— any loving father would, right? yeah but, you know,- any loving father would, right? yeah but, you know, there's still that whole that whole family pool. he's got a family now . mean, know, look, we now. i mean, you know, look, we all want to see peace break out in the royal family. i don't think going happen think it's going to happen anytime this is anytime soon. i think this is really a bit of the really becoming a bit of a the heir the spare. it's heir versus the spare. it's becoming open warfare. but i think between harry becoming open warfare. but i thin william, between harry becoming open warfare. but i thin william, blseen n harry becoming open warfare. but i thin william, blseen that rry and william, we've seen that with business this with the whole business of this secret arrangement that harry's claiming that they signed with the press. well, let's let's move on from _ the press. well, let's let's move on from the- well, let's let's move on from the royals and talk about— move on from the royals and talk about whether— move on from the royals and talk about whether there will ever be peace — about whether there will ever be peace -conservative - about whether there will ever be peace conservative party peace in the conservative party heoue— because there's this extraordinary we're calling it huheo— extraordinary we're calling it huheo eeooh— extraordinary we're calling it buried scoop of— extraordinary we're calling it buried scoop of day the buried scoop of the day in the hou— buried scoop of the day in the moi oh— buried scoop of the day in the mail on sunday,— buried scoop of the day in the mail on sunday, liz truss told to pay— mail on sunday, liz truss told to pay hhhooo— mail on sunday, liz truss told to pay £12,000 because she may or may— to pay £12,000 because she may or may hor— to pay £12,000 because she may or may not or— to pay £12,000 because she may or may not or allegedly erregeory— or may not or allegedly allegedly made off with some horhrohee— allegedly made off with some bathrobes and— allegedly made off with some bathrobes and other items from chevehhg— bathrobes and other items from chevehhg .— bathrobes and other items from cheyehhg , her— bathrobes and other items from chevening , her country residence chevening, her country residence . so— chevening, her country residence . so where— chevening, her country residence . so where gohg— chevening, her country residence . so what's going on with this erorye— . so what's going on with this erorye ureth— . so what's going on with this story? well this— . so what's going on with this story? well this this is very ooh. — story? well this this is very oot. r— story? well this this is very odd. i mean,— story? well this this is very odd. i mean, i'm- story? well this this is very odd. " story? well this this is very odd. i mean, i'm not a mathematician i worked mathematician, but i worked out that you can get 165 bathrobes

for £12,000, price per bathrobe in £65. so i'm going for the 100, maybe 180. but anyway, you can get a lot of bathrobes. i mean, 12 nick gibb bathrobe, that's the first question. no, i haven't. no, i. not even from a horeh — haven't. no, i. not even from a horeh ho.— haven't. no, i. not even from a horeh ho. r— haven't. no, i. not even from a hotel? no, i have not. i can absolutely say hand on heart. but what is i mean, briefly , but what is i mean, briefly, the— but what is i mean, briefly, the h— but what is i mean, briefly, the he he— but what is i mean, briefly, this is it's just— but what is i mean, briefly, this is it's just interesting how— this is it's just interesting how the— this is it's just interesting how this story— this is it's just interesting how this story is even ended up in how this story is even ended up h-rhoh— how this story is even ended up h-hoh oh— how this story is even ended up in-mail on sunday.- how this story is even ended up in mail on sunday. who's in the mail on sunday. who's hhereo— in the mail on sunday. who's briefed—truss?- in the mail on sunday. who's. briefed—truss? well briefed this against truss? well there— briefed this against truss? well there o— briefed this against truss? well rhor-e u very— briefed this against truss? well that's a very good— briefed this against truss? well that's a very good question. aru— that's a very good question. heu-rho— that's a very good question. and-also that- that's a very good question. i and-also that £12,000 and i think also that £12,000 figure that very high for figure that looks very high for bathrobe , would question what bathrobe, i would question what else that £12,000 is for. soaps. yeah possibly champagne , wine, yeah possibly champagne, wine, maybe. maybe there's been a diaz ayuh— maybe. maybe there's been a diaz ayuh or— maybe. maybe there's been a diaz ayuh or uro— maybe. maybe there's been a diaz ayuh or two or— maybe. maybe there's been a diaz ayub or two at evening— maybe there's been a diaz ayub or two at evening and now she-e— ayub or two at evening and now ehe-e prehhg— ayub or two at evening and now ehe-e picking up— ayub or two at evening and now she's picking up the bill. hoeshhhy— she's picking up the bill. possibly. now— she's picking up the bill. possibly. now let's go to policy drop— possibly. now let's go to policy drop or— possibly. now let's go to policy drop or he— possibly. now let's go to policy drop or the toy.— possibly. now let's go to policy drop of the day. mirror page drop of the day. the mirror page two ohvhouery— drop of the day. the mirror page two obviously is— drop of the day. the mirror page two obviously is championing srorrher-e— two obviously is championing srorrher-e .— two obviously is championing starmer's . we— two obviously is championing starmer's . we will protect starmer's. we will protect geherorroh— starmer's. we will protect generation-.- starmer's. we will protect generation . but dan hodges generation rent. but dan hodges in generation rent. but dan hodges he he— generation rent. but dan hodges h the hou— generation rent. but dan hodges h he met oh— generation rent. but dan hodges in the mail on sunday is pointing— in the mail on sunday is pointing our— in the mail on sunday is pointing out that starmer's mask will pointing out that starmer's mask with he— pointing out that starmer's mask with he-oher- pointing out that starmer's mask will be - after the - pointing out that starmer's mask will be after the grey will be torn away after the grey heter— will be torn away after the grey eeror prohe— will be torn away after the grey geidt probe and— will be torn away after the grey geidt probe and people won't rhe— geidt probe and people won't hhe whor— geidt probe and people won't like what they— geidt probe and people won't like what they see. so on one

hono— like what they see. so on one hand r— like what they see. so on one hand r rhhh— like what they see. so on one hand i think announcements on housing— hand i think announcements on houehg ore— hand i think announcements on housing are probably kcvg. on the on...— housing are probably kcvg. on the other, the— housing are probably kcvg. on the other, the sue gray debacle is the other, the sue gray debacle he going— the other, the sue gray debacle h going-him- the other, the sue gray debacle is going-him look- the other, the sue gray debacle is going him look very is going to make him look very ethy— is going to make him look very only when— is going to make him look very silly when this— is going to make him look very silly when this report comes our.— silly when this report comes. our—sterner silly when this report comes- out._starmer is out. how do you think starmer is doing— out. how do you think starmer is doing e — out. how do you think starmer is doing e heu.— out. how do you think starmer is doing e heu. r— out. how do you think starmer is doing .7 well, i think- doing? well, i think announcements on housing tick up to a point because i think this is another one of those examples where, yes, we'd all like to build houses . where, yes, we'd all like to build houses. he's talking build more houses. he's talking about building 300,000 houses in build more houses. he's talking aiyearbuilding 300,000 houses in build more houses. he's talking aiyear .uilding 300,000 houses in build more houses. he's talking aiyear. heiing 300,000 houses in build more houses. he's talking aiyear. he hasn't0,000 houses in build more houses. he's talking aiyear. he hasn't ast00 houses in build more houses. he's talking aiyear. he hasn't as everouses in build more houses. he's talking aiyear. he hasn't as ever given in a year. he hasn't as ever given any detail about how that's going to happen. we know that we have have byzantine have still have byzantine planning laws. there's all sorts of issues around land ownership . the of issues around land ownership .theidea of issues around land ownership . the idea that we're suddenly going to magic up it is what he's , as in the past he's done is, as in the past with labour, we've the magic with labour, we've had the magic money now suddenly we've with labour, we've had the magic morthe now suddenly we've with labour, we've had the magic morthe magicow suddenly we've with labour, we've had the magic morthe magicow suddetree,ve've got the magic housing tree, which i'm sorry, but i take which so i'm sorry, but i take that with a pinch salt. that with a pinch of salt. i think for people think that's so easy for people to for them to say. very difficult for them to say. very difficult for them to do terms of how he's to do in terms of how he's doing. i just still struggle to see what is actually going to do. i mean, people he's been talking to blair apparently talking to tony blair apparently . one thing one could say about talking to tony blair apparently . oneblair] one could say about talking to tony blair apparently . oneblair was; could say about talking to tony blair apparently . oneblair was heruld say about talking to tony blair apparently . oneblair was he wassay about talking to tony blair apparently . oneblair was he was genuinely tony blair was he was genuinely radical. he said he was radical. and if he said he was going to do something, he tended

to not always a good to do it. not always a good idea. we with idea. we know, as we know with tony blair, so far, i've not seen a single really practical thing come from keir starmer about too much commentary and not enough policy. perhaps then they-re— not enough policy. perhaps then rhey-re eoyho— not enough policy. perhaps then they're saying, we're— rig rtg perhaps then they're saying, we're holding our they're saying, we're holding eouheh— they're saying, we're holding our council until— they're saying, we're holding our council until 2024. we don't heed— our council until 2024. we don't need-announce— our council until 2024. we don't need announce anything. need to announce anything. i rheoh-rhhg- need to announce anything. i mean,-thing they. need to announce anything. i mean, thing they keep need to announce anything. i meannouncing thing they keep need to announce anything. i meannouncing isiing they keep need to announce anything. i meannouncing is that:hey keep need to announce anything. i me announcing is that they'retp on announcing is that they're going— on announcing is that they're goinglpav_ on announcing is that they're going pay everything going to pay for everything with whereu— going to pay for everything with whether—rhe- windfall taxes and then the orthorho— windfall taxes and then thei stripping—status windfall taxes and then the. stripping—status . windfall taxes and then the- stripping_status . but stripping of non—dom status. but hee-s— stripping of non—dom status. but wheres rhe— stripping of non—dom status. but where's the calculation ? we where's the calculation? we howeh-r— where's the calculation? we haven't seen— where's the calculation? we haven't seen them yet. �*fw�*rzgl haven't seen them yet. well, hrs— haven't seen them yet. well, uh oh— haven't seen them yet. well, uh oh very— haven't seen them yet. well, it's all very-sort- haven't seen them yet. well, it's all very-sort of- it's all very well sort of saying, well, we're going to hold we hold on from announcing it. we don't tories steal hold on from announcing it. we donpolicies, tories steal hold on from announcing it. we don policies, etcetera, steal our policies, etcetera, etcetera. a lot of etcetera. i think a lot of people country are bit people in this country are a bit fed with these empty promises fed up with these empty promises . promised get rid . i mean, he promised to get rid of fees, apparently in of student fees, apparently in 2019, and that hasn't happened. and i think he's rowing back on that . you know, don't that now. you know, we don't want they're going want people saying they're going to and then it just to do something and then it just doesn't happens to do something and then it just doesiand happens to do something and then it just doesiand time happens to do something and then it just doesiand time in happens to do something and then it just doesiand time in government.rens time and time in government. and i'm afraid he's falling into that talk that trap. let's talk about sorhehooy— that trap. let's talk about somebody else— let's talk about somebody else with high hopes let's talk about sonhighiy else with high hopes let's talk about sonhigh office. with high hopes let's talk about sonhigh office. roni high hopes let's talk about sonhigh office. ron desantisres for high office. ron desantis hos— for high office. ron desantis hos-this— for high office. ron desantis hos-rhrs very- has given this very comprehensive interview to the suhooy— comprehensive interview to the sunday telegraph . i mean, he's sunday telegraph. i mean, he's playing— sunday telegraph. i mean, he's playinglgreat_ sunday telegraph. i mean, he's playinglgreat-of- sunday telegraph. i mean, he's playing great of tory playing a great game of tory hhgo—

playing a great game of tory hheo h— playing a great game of tory hhgo h o— playing a great game of tory hhgo h o why.— playing a great game of tory bingo in a way. maybe he's playing— bingo in a way. maybe he's playing oh— bingo in a way. maybe he's playing gb news bingo because bingo in a way. maybe he's playisaying news bingo because bingo in a way. maybe he's playisaying iews bingo because bingo in a way. maybe he's playisaying i supportgo because bingo in a way. maybe he's playisaying i support bad acause bingo in a way. maybe he's playisaying i support bad knock he's saying i support bad knock on th— he's saying i support bad knock on in her— he's saying i support bad knock on in her wor— he's saying i support bad knock on in her war on— he's saying i support bad knock on in her war on wokery. he's arso— on in her war on wokery. he's also shying,— on in her war on wokery. he's also soyhg, r— on in her war on wokery. he's also saying, i love— on in her war on wokery. he's also saying, i love britain and hes— also saying, i love britain and hes soyhg— also saying, i love britain and hes soyhg r— also saying, i love britain and he's saying i love— also saying, i love britain and he's saying i love brexit. yeah. i he's saying i love brexit. yeah. r rheoh— he's saying i love brexit. yeah. r .— he's saying i love brexit. yeah. r , he-s— he's saying i love brexit. yeah. i mean , he's he's— he's saying i love brexit. yeah. i mean , he's he's hitting all i mean, he's he's hitting all he— i mean, he's he's hitting all the right— i mean, he's he's hitting all the right buttons , definitely the right buttons, definitely rhere. — the right buttons, definitely there. r— the right buttons, definitely there. i think— the right buttons, definitely there. "

who— nato desantis is playing this who or— nato desantis is playing this who or antho— nato desantis is playing this kind of anglo american card as strongly— kind of anglo american card as strongly-rs— kind of anglo american card as strongly-is, and- kind of anglo american card as strongly is, and equally strongly as he is, and equally i hroeh— strongly as he is, and equally i mean, biden can— strongly as he is, and equally i mean, biden can probably beat humo— mean, biden can probably beat rrurhh heeouse— mean, biden can probably beat trump because it's overblown how hush— trump because it's overblown how much he— trump because it's overblown how much he wo— trump because it's overblown how much he won last— trump because it's overblown how much he won last time. he got some— much he won last time. he got soooo exho— much he won last time. he got 80,000 extra votes— much he won last time. he got 80,000 extra votes . it wasn't 80,000 extra votes. it wasn't thor— 80,000 extra votes. it wasn't that many. — 80,000 extra votes. it wasn't that many. when— 80,000 extra votes. it wasn't that many. when you consider the population— that many. when you consider the population actually, desantis is or— population actually, desantis is or e— population actually, desantis is more of a threat— population actually, desantis is more of a threat to biden, isn't hee— more of a threat to biden, isn't he ves— more of a threat to biden, isn't he yes he— more of a threat to biden, isn't he? yes he would— more of a threat to biden, isn't he? yes he would be. unfortunately. - he? yes he would be. unfortunately. i- he? yes he would be. unfortunately. i think or fortunately, depending on which way you look at it , fortunately, depending on which way you look at it, trump carries huge carries with him this huge amount of residual support wherever he does. yeah, people just fall have fallen in love with trump for whatever reason in the past and will continue to vote for him and push him. vote for him and push for him. and concerns about and there were concerns about hesohrrs— desantis being a bit socially owhworo— desantis being a bit socially awkward and— desantis being a bit socially awkward and perhaps not being outre— awkward and perhaps not being quite toward.— awkward and perhaps not being quite forward. and he comes across-wett— quite forward. and he comes across-well in- quite forward. and he comes across well in this across quite well in this interview.— across quite well in this interview. interesting that interview. it's interesting that ahosrohr—ori alastair heath, the editor of rhe— alastair heath, the editor of the—hosi alastair heath, the editor of- rhe—hos oohe the sunday telegraph, has done it. the sunday telegraph, has done to —hhe— the sunday telegraph, has done to —hhe o- the sunday telegraph, has done h—hhe o hig- it. so it's clearly like a big thing— it. so it's clearly like a big thingithere's_ it. so it's clearly like a big thing there's odd thousand thing. there's four odd thousand words— thing. there's four odd thousand words he— thing. there's four odd thousand words he he— thing. there's four odd thousand words in the papers. is that the appropriate— words in the papers. is that the appropriate would— words in the papers. is that the appropriate would you have run words in the papers. is that the arforrpriate would you have run words in the papers. is that the arfor thate would you have run words in the papers. is that the arfor that length! you have run words in the papers. is that the arfor that length inou have run words in the papers. is that the arfor that length in theiave run words in the papers. is that the arfor that length in the paper,�*i it for that length in the paper, do it for that length in the paper, to you— it for that length in the paper, to you rhhhe— it for that length in the paper, do you think? martin yeah, i think— do you think? martin yeah, i rhhh—ereor- think i think it's a great hrerwew— think i think it's a great. interview-mean , think i think it's a great- interview-mean , you interview to get. i mean, you know, newspaper terms, know, just in newspaper term s, you exclusive. you get that kind of exclusive. you're the you're going to put it on the front. he's

front. but i do think he's saying interesting things . saying some interesting things. i much plays i think that very much plays into the sunday telegraph mail on sunday in particular, those two papers. and there there concern with what's going on very quietly with these woke values. so it's not bad for keamy's pr, is it. it's very good for hrs— keamy's pr, is it. it's very good for his pr— ? c it's very good for his pr please 3 c it's very good for his pr please hold oreose. — good for his pr please hold please. michael- good for his pr please hold please. i�*i rt. t good for his pr please hold please. f l please. michael gove, her supporter. so indeed, sir martin townsend, thank you so much for joining me this morning. now , joining me this morning. now, now, tom harwood gb " g 9 now, now, tom harwood gb news is deputy— now, tom harwood gb news is deputy political— now, tom harwood gb news is deputy political editor, is in milton— deputy political editor, is in milton keynes— deputy political editor, is in milton keynes .— deputy political editor, is in milton keynes . tom, we've got milton keynes. tom, we've got loads— milton keynes. tom, we've got loads of— milton keynes. tom, we've got loads of great— milton keynes. tom, we've got loads of great guests lined up. what— loads of great guests lined up. what do— loads of great guests lined up. what to the— loads of great guests lined up. what do the panel want to ask loads of great guests lined up. wimydo the panel want to ask loads of great guests lined up. wimy political|nel want to ask loads of great guests lined up. wimy political punditst to ask loads of great guests lined up. wimy political pundits .7 to ask loads of great guests lined up. wimy political pundits .7 yes:o ask loads of great guests lined up. wimy political pundits .7 yes i'm;k of my political pundits? yes i'm hete— of my political pundits? yes i'm here tn— of my political pundits? yes i'm here tn sunny— of my political pundits? yes i'm here in sunny milton keynes. ttte— here in sunny milton keynes. ttte memtng— here in sunny milton keynes. this morning at— here in sunny milton keynes. this morning at a— here in sunny milton keynes. this morning at a brilliant restaurant called the greedy italian and just before we get to the panel, let's have a quick chat with the owner, antonio. thank you for having us. firstly the question i asked all of the proprietors of the places we go to sunday mornings how is to on sunday mornings how is business moment? business for you at the moment? business very for us. business is very well for us. obviously the cost of running a tuetneee— obviously the cost of running a tuetneee tee— obviously the cost of running a business has increased dramatically,- business has increased dramatically, but with local

support— dramatically, but with local euppett ent— dramatically, but with local euppett and e— dramatically, but with local support and a great network of mttten— support and a great network of men-.— support and a great network of milton -, we're - support and a great network of milton , we're doing very support and a great network of milto well, , we're doing very support and a great network of milto well, goodne're doing very support and a great network of milto well, good to re doing very support and a great network of milto well, good to hearing very support and a great network of milto well, good to hear and lery well. well, good to hear and thank— well. well, good to hear and thank you— well. well, good to hear and thank you ee— well. well, good to hear and thank you so much for having us teete— thank you so much for having us agate—speak- thank you so much for having us again—speaklthel again. let's let's speak to the panel now . we ethan, sophie panel now. we have ethan, sophie and neil, three staples of the milton keynes community. and ethan, you have been a council candidate in the past. ethan, you have been a council candidate in the past . why not candidate in the past. why not this year? the last two times i was a candidate , but this year was a candidate, but this year just busy with family life and setting up and running a business. ifeel setting up and running a business. i feel slightly tteengegeet— i feel slightly disengaged, which is a terrible tttne— disengaged, which is a terrible tttne te— disengaged, which is a terrible tttne to eat— disengaged, which is a terrible thing to say because the local eteettene— thing to say because the local elections are— thing to say because the local elections are super important. ween— elections are super important. when peepte— elections are super important. when people think about the tents— when people think about the things-matter- when people think about the things matter them most things that matter to them most ,-eetteettene— , like bin collections, school pteeee— , like bin collections, school placest--- , like bin collections, school pteeee-. tt-e- , like bin collections, school places, -. it's the l places, potholes. it's the comet— places, potholes. it's the council-has- places, potholes. it's the council has the power. places, potholes. it's the- council-has the power. but council that has the power. but eemetee— council that has the power. but sometimes—look. sometimes you kind of look around— sometimes you kind of look around eut— sometimes you kind of look around and think, well, what are they—vett- around and think, well, what are they—yeahl>- around and think, well, what are they—yeahb sol they doing with it? yeah > so i suppose— they doing with it? yeah > so i suppose that— they doing with it? yeah > so i suppose that ts— they doing with it? yeah > so i suppose that is something that they doing with it? yeah > so i suppo heardt is something that they doing with it? yeah > so i suppo heard reflected:hing that we've heard reflected quite a bit of that bit in terms of that disengagement. neil you are probably reflecting that as well. yeah, very, very true . tom well. yeah, very, very true. tom it's very sad to hear ethan's commentary, particularly with an insider's perspective. but for me , who i vote for- 2ti” f but for me , who i vote for seems 2i” f but for me , who i vote for seems to have me, who i vote for seems to have very— me, who i vote for seems to have very ttttte — me, who i vote for seems to have very little effect— me, who i vote for seems to have very little effect on,— me, who i vote for seems to have very little effect on, on the

outooe— very little effect on, on the outcome . batus- very little effect on, on the outcome. 2 very little effect on, on the- outcome . batus and the important outcome. batus and the important things in the community seem to be overlooked at the altar of politics sizing things. so i will not be voting this week. wow okay. well, sophie, i assume you will be voting this week, but you are perhaps more engaged in the local community in a in a less political way . yeah. so less political way. yeah. so i write a less political way. yeah. so i uttte o toot— less political way. yeah. so i write a food and— 2? yeah. so i write a food and lifestyle blog. i'm write a food and lifestyle blog. top very— write a food and lifestyle blog. top very tu— write a food and lifestyle blog. i'm very in tune— write a food and lifestyle blog. i'm very in tune with local tustuesses— i'm very in tune with local businesses and— i'm very in tune with local businesses and what they kind of teet— businesses and what they kind of need one— businesses and what they kind of need and what— businesses and what they kind of need and what they want to see from — need and what they want to see from the — need and what they want to see from the government. did from the government. i did ootuotty— from the government. i did ootuotty-to- from the government. i did actually-to my- from the government. i did actually to my local mps actually write to my local mps test— actually write to my local mps test-ohout— actually write to my local mps last - about the _ actually write to my local mps last - about the rise - actually write to my local mps last about the rise in last year about the rise in energy— last year about the rise in energy costs— last year about the rise in energy costs for- last year about the rise in energy costs for small businesses— energy costs for small businesses and got a lot of a lot businesses and got a lot of a tot ot— businesses and got a lot of a lot of feedback— businesses and got a lot of a lot of feedback back off the hook— lot of feedback back off the hook-thet— lot of feedback back off the back-that and— lot of feedback back off the back that and secured back of that and secured a rheetthe— meeting with them as well. so i hove— meeting with them as well. so i have thet— meeting with them as well. so i have trtet to— meeting with them as well. so i have tried to use— meeting with them as well. so i have tried to use my influence a httte— have tried to use my influence a httte-tooot— have tried to use my influence a little-local area- have tried to use my influence a little-local area to- little bit in the local area to try-smoth- little bit in the local area to try small businesses try and get small businesses heart,— try and get small businesses heort, hut— try and get small businesses heard, but-be- try and get small businesses heard, but be voting yes heard, but i will be voting yes ont— heard, but i will be voting yes oht rt— heard, but i will be voting yes oht tt ts— heard, but i will be voting yes oht tt ts oh— heard, but i will be voting yes and it is an interesting place , and it is an interesting place, rhttoh— and it is an interesting place, milton keynes,— and it is an interesting place, milton keynes, because of course it milton keynes, because of course tt ts— milton keynes, because of course tt to o— milton keynes, because of course tt to o southp— milton keynes, because of course it is a swing constituency or seerot— it is a swing constituency or several constituencies , two several constituencies, two constituencies— several constituencies, two constituencies in this city. hut— constituencies in this city. hut ttso — constituencies in this city. but also the— constituencies in this city. but also the make- constituencies in this city. but also the make up- constituencies in this city. but also the make up of the local council is almost split three ways is how do you expect

things to go . but i think having things to go. but i think having been— things to go. but i think having been o— things to go. but i think having been a candidate— things to go. but i think having been a candidate the- 2s 2? but i think having been a candidate the last 25 2? but i think having been a candidate the last two yeas— been a candidate the last two yeas rye— been a candidate the last two years, i've been— been a candidate the last two years, i've been involved in the proess— years, i've been involved in the proe putte— years, i've been involved in the process quite intimately. i ththh— process quite intimately. i ththh that— process quite intimately. i think that and— process quite intimately. i think that and i say this from i was a conservative— think that and i say this from i was a conservative candidate the tast— was a conservative candidate the tast two— was a conservative candidate the last two times— was a conservative candidate the last two times and— was a conservative candidate the last two times and i have a lot of last two times and i have a lot or good— last two times and i have a lot of good friends— last two times and i have a lot of good friends and acquaintances there. think acquaintances there. i think a lot acquaintances there. i think a totlpoot— acquaintances there. i think a lot-good friends- acquaintances there. i think a lot good friends are going to lot of good friends are going to hose— lot of good friends are going to lose—because- lot of good friends are going to lose—because of- lot of good friends are going to lose because of the lose their seats because of the hattohat— lose their seats because of the national picture. _ lose their seats because of the national picture. and i do think tahour— national picture. and i do think tahour-hehs- national picture. and i do think labour-dems will- national picture. and i do think labour dems will will labour and lib dems will will etther— labour and lib dems will will either-increase- labour and lib dems will will either-increase. - labour and lib dems will will either increase . �*ftr�*rzicc either hold or increase. well, r— either hold or increase. well, r throt— either hold or increase. well, no, i think that's that's what the polls are suggesting right now . but finally, what of now. but finally, what sort of questions do you have for the for particularly the government minister on mark harper, the transport secretary certainly from my perspective , there will from my perspective, there will be hopefully penetrate and question about the whole transport infrastructure in the uk, whether it's roads, whether it's railways , hs2 will no doubt it's railways, hs2 will no doubt create some interest as well . it create some interest as well. it seems it just happens rather than it's being managed. and i think someone needs to be accountable to the voting population for that. well, we will get back to your reaction once we've heard what the

minister and indeed the other guests have to say. but now guests have to say. but for now , you, camilla. yeah, , back to you, camilla. yeah, thank you very much for that, tom, and thank you for those questions . neil. tom, and thank you for those questions. neil. i tom, and thank you for those questions . neil. i shall be questions. neil. i shall be puttrhp— questions. neil. i shall be puttrhp-hart- putting them to mark harper rtpht— putting them to mark harper. rtpht—rrahsport right now because the transport secretary,— right now because the transport secretary, r— right now because the transport secretary, r hope,— right now because the transport secretary, i hope, joins me. soot— secretary, i hope, joins me. soot-aha- secretary, i hope, joins me. good-and thank. secretary, i hope, joins me. good and thank you secretary, i hope, joins me.- good-and thank you very good morning and thank you very much— good morning and thank you very mush-the.— good morning and thank you very much-time. now- much for your time. now we've got much for your time. now we've pot-agate— much for your time. now we've got again looming. they got strikes again looming. they may— got strikes again looming. they may arsrupt— got strikes again looming. they may arsrupt the— got strikes again looming. they may disrupt the fa cup eurovision— may disrupt the fa cup eurovision in- may disrupt the fa cup eurovision in the epsom derby. have— eurovision in the epsom derby. have the— eurovision in the epsom derby. have the unions— eurovision in the epsom derby. have the unions just simply been running— have the unions just simply been rummp rhes— have the unions just simply been running rings around government on running rings around government oh-uatoh— running rings around government oh-uatohlharper- running rings around government oh-uatohlharper .- running rings around government on watch, harper . no, on your watch, mr harper. no, i ooh-t— on your watch, mr harper. no, i ooh-t agree— on your watch, mr harper. no, i don't agree with— on your watch, mr harper. no, i don't agree with that . c? don't agree with that. camilla. on don't agree with that. camilla. oh the— don't agree with that. camilla. oh the what— don't agree with that. camilla. oh the that r— don't agree with that. camilla. on the what i promised to do. i said we would make sure we taottttatet— said we would make sure we facilitated fair— said we would make sure we facilitated fair and reasonable aha— facilitated fair and reasonable and affordable— facilitated fair and reasonable and affordable pay offers to the trade— and affordable pay offers to the trade unions. _ and affordable pay offers to the trade unions. now— and affordable pay offers to the trade unions. hrir�*u and affordable pay offers to the trade unions. \rr:irwtr” trade unions. now, the one that was done by network rail to rmt, the rmt executive put that one to their members and by a big margin, 90% turnout. a 76% yes vote. their members on network rail accepted it. so we've resolved the dispute there. what is inexplicable to me is that on the train operating companies, we're a very similar offer,

similar value has been made to the rmt . their executive won't the rmt. their executive won't even put it for the third time, won't put it to their members. i think their members should be given the chance to have a say on it. and the same with the otter— on it. and the same with the otter that-s— on it. and the same with the offer that's been— ct" c and the same with the offer that's been made to train them — offer that's been made to train them vou— offer that's been made to train drivers. you know,- offer that's been made to train drivers. /r:i. i offer that's been made to train drivers. /r:ir. i 2 ” drivers. you know, train drivers are well paid, average salary, £60,000 they've had £60,000 a year. they've had a fair and reasonable pay offer that that to close on that would take that to close on £65,000 year. should be put to £65,000 a year. should be put to her— £65,000 a year. should be put to their members— £65,000 a year. should be put to their members and— £65,000 a year. should be put to their members and let— �*m 000 should be put to their members and let their memehrs— their members and let their members decision . their members and let their- members-decision. okay. members make a decision. okay. so members make a decision. okay. so to— members make a decision. okay. so to you— members make a decision. okay. so to you thmh— members make a decision. okay. so do you think train drivers are paid enough then . well, are paid enough then. well, look, they've been given a fair and reasonable pay offer and i think, by the way, the targeting of these big events is terrible . all i've met the head of rrtramtah— all i've met the head of ukrainian railways, i mean, hutm-s— ukrainian railways, i mean, putin's been— ukrainian railways, i mean, putin's been targeting ukrainian rail r— putin's been targeting ukrainian ratt , the— putin's been targeting ukrainian rail , the railways,— putin's been targeting ukrainian rail , the railways, hundreds of rail, the railways, hundreds of rattuay— rail, the railways, hundreds of railway workers— rail, the railways, hundreds of railway workers have been three. — railway workers have been three. the— railway workers have been killed. �*r�*v�*itii: 2 railway workers have been killed. 2 2 2 railway workers have been- killed. we should be standing in solidarity with them. the eurovision song contest is not ours . we're hosting it for ours. we're hosting it for ukraine rather than the rail workers targeting events and hitting families that have saved

up a lot of money to go to them . i think they put the . i think they should put the fair and reasonable pay offers to their members, let their members make a decision. i think that would be the— members make a decision. i think that would be the right— 2ri2 ch" i think that would be the right thing to to. — that would be the right thing to to. okay— that would be the right thing to to. otay . our— that would be the right thing to do. our people's do. okay. ourpeople's pahethsts— do. okay. ourpeople's panellists, neil- do. our people's panellists, neil there is asking you a— panellists, neil there is asking you a auesttoh— panellists, neil there is asking you a question about the infrastructure _ you a question about the infrastructure of the transport network— infrastructure of the transport network m— infrastructure of the transport network in general . we know that network in general. we know that there— network in general. we know that there are— network in general. we know that there are concerns— network in general. we know that there are concerns over the avattahthty— there are concerns over the availability of— there are concerns over the availability of trains , of the availability of trains, of the phoe— availability of trains, of the prtoe ot— availability of trains, of the price of fares. _ availability of trains, of the price of fares. has gone up exponentially,— price of fares. has gone up exponentially, not least because of exponentially, not least because or the— exponentially, not least because or the cost— exponentially, not least because or the cost or— exponentially, not least because of the cost of living crisis . of the cost of living crisis. reope— of the cost of living crisis. people, particularly in the north— people, particularly in the north, think— people, particularly in the north, think they're not getting a good— north, think they're not getting a good semtoe— north, think they're not getting a good semtoe .— north, think they're not getting a good service . i— north, think they're not getting a good service . i live in a a good service. i live in a rurat— a good service. i live in a rural area. there are potholes all rural area. there are potholes att oer— rural area. there are potholes att the— rural area. there are potholes all over the place. what is the government— all over the place. what is the government doing about all of these— government doing about all of these problems— government doing about all of these problems . _ government doing about all of these problems . �*rfiririll these problems. well, let me let me try and pick up all of those , camilla. so, first of all, we're spending considerable amount of money. so i've got a £20 billion capital budget, which we spend carefully across all of those modes of travel conscious that most people drive of. we're investing in our existing road infrastructure, investing more money in

repairing it. you'll know that the chancellor in the budget found several hundred million pounds extra to deal with potholes, and tightening potholes, and we're tightening up the rules around utility companies that dig up roads so that they have to put them back in better state. we're also in a better state. we're also investing our rail investing in our rail infrastructure and we're doing that in a way that's affordable to the taxpayer. very to the taxpayer. so i'm very conscious transport is conscious that transport is about keeping the country moving. so lot investment moving. so a lot of investment and dealing with inflation pressures, but also making sure we deliver good infrastructure and deal with the day to day problems that people face across the country . but people in the the country. but people in the north think that they're not getting good infrastructure out of interest. have you ever tried to traver— of interest. have you ever tried to travet hy— of interest. have you ever tried to travel by rail— have you ever tried to travel by rail between manchester— to travel by rail between manchester in- to travel by rail between manchester in leeds in rush hour 7 manchester in leeds in rush hour eso— manchester in leeds in rush hour 7 so — manchester in leeds in rush hour 7 so so— manchester in leeds in rush hour 7 so so r— manchester in leeds in rush hour 7 so so i think— manchester in leeds in rush hour ? so so i think you're- manchester in leeds in rush hour ? so “

and i'm very clear. i'm going to make a decision that's in the interests of passengers. there's a limit to what i can say at the moment i've got make moment because i've got to make a legally robust and defensible decision. but i've heard what mps from all parties have said about it. i've listened to what the travelling has got to the travelling public has got to say and no option off the say and no option is off the table. have say and no option is off the table . have you ever made that table. have you ever made that toumey— table. have you ever made that toumey thought— have you ever made that journey though? personally not. not journey though? personally not. hot that— journey though? personally not. not that specific— journey though? personally not. not that specific journey, but r-m — not that specific journey, but r-m very— not that specific journey, but r-m very eeart — not that specific journey, but i'm very clear. 2 i'm very clear. i've heard from members of parliament and from from their constituent servants about the challenges that they've had using that rail service. and i'm very clear about it. i've had the managing director of that company in to talk through the issues , and i talk through the issues, and i said, i've got to make a decision before the contract expires . the existing contract expires. the existing contract expires. the existing contract expires at the end the month. expires at the end of the month. but got to do that in but i've got to do that in a legally way. legally defensible way. so there's sadly , to what there's a limit, sadly, to what i on your programme, i can say on your programme, and i haven't yet taken that decision . i know, but but gb decision. i know, but but gb news viewers and listeners will be astonished by that. do you not use the rail system-

do you not use the rail system in the north— not use the rail system in the north mush— not use the rail system in the north muoh e— not use the rail system in the north much ? yes— not use the rail system in the north much ? yes i do. i not use the rail system in the north much ? yes i do. ? ?r2 north much? yes i do. in fact, i just— north much? yes i do. in fact, i just the— north much? yes i do. in fact, i was just the last few days i was in scotland. i took the sleeper train all the way up to scotland and i used the rail service frequently to get from my constituency to london. so i'm a regular rail user , so i have regular rail user, so i have exactly the same experiences as everybody else. sometimes it's good and sometimes it's less good and sometimes it's less good and sometimes it's less good and i'm always focussed with my team and working closely with my team and working closely with the rail minister on making sure we can improve services for passengers. and just your point, by the way, about fares. it was one of the reasons why we did the biggest intervention in the biggest ever intervention in the biggest ever intervention in the rail system this year. instead of allowing the regular formula to kick in, we actually held rail fares down, only rising at the level that earnings are rising. exactly to recognise the fact that the cost of living is a challenge for people. so we kept rail fares much lower than they would otherwise have been . let's move otherwise have been. let's move on to smart motorways. people watching on to smart motorways. people vatohthp thts— on to smart motorways. people

watching this are— cit" people watching this are confused heause— watching this are confused because the— watching this are confused because the government's decided to scrap— because the government's decided to scrap ahy— because the government's decided to scrap any new— because the government's decided to scrap any new smart motorways heause— to scrap any new smart motorways heause they-re — to scrap any new smart motorways because they're not— to scrap any new smart motorways because they're not safe, and vet— because they're not safe, and yet tt-s— because they're not safe, and yet he teepmp— because they're not safe, and yet it's keeping the old ones. if yet it's keeping the old ones. rt the— yet it's keeping the old ones. rt the rev— yet it's keeping the old ones. if the new ones— yet it's keeping the old ones. if the new ones aren't safe, theh— if the new ones aren't safe, then why— if the new ones aren't safe, then why are— if the new ones aren't safe, then why are the old ones ? no. then why are the old ones? no. vett— then why are the old ones? no. vvett that-s— then why are the old ones? no. well that's not— then why are the old ones? no. well that's not why the government's- well that's not why the government's decided to cancel new ones. smart— government's decided to cancel new ones. �*" new ones. smart motorways. if you actually look at the data as far as casualties are concerned, smart motorways are actually the safest roads on the strategic road network. the reason why we've we're not doing any new ones for two reasons. one is partly because of the cost , but partly because of the cost, but also it's because the public don't have confidence in them. and i think it's important that the public are not just safe on our roads, but have the confidence to be safe on our roads. and that's why we're not delivering any new ones , what delivering any new ones, what we're doing existing ones and we're doing on existing ones and the two that going to be the two that are going to be completed that we're rolling completed is that we're rolling out , both in out safety improvements, both in terms technology , but terms of the technology, but also significantly larger also a very significantly larger number of emergency areas. there'll be emergency areas

every three quarters of a mile. so actually , if somebody does so actually, if somebody does break down, there'll be somewhere safe that they can get off of the motorway and have their car while they wait to be recovered . so i think it's that recovered. so i think it's that package of safety improvements, which also important . which is also very important. do you accept that hs2 is one of the reasons— do you accept that hs2 is one of the reasons that— do you accept that hs2 is one of the reasons that you lost chesham— the reasons that you lost chesham and— the reasons that you lost chesham and amersham in the hy—eteettoh— chesham and amersham in the by—election and— chesham and amersham in the by—election and that you're going— by—election and that you're tome to— by—election and that you're tome to rose— by—election and that you're going to lose more votes on rhurstay— going to lose more votes on thursday because of this ill tatet— thursday because of this ill tatet aha— thursday because of this ill fated and unpopular train protest— fated and unpopular train protest 7— fated and unpopular train protest e ho,— fated and unpopular train project ? no, no, i don't project? no, no, i don't aetuatty. — project? no, no, i don't actually. and- project? no, no, i don't actually. and i- project? no, no, i don't actually. ' 2 project? no, no, i don't actually. 2 actually. and i think it's a really important piece of investment in our transport infrastructure for a couple of reasons . first of all, it's reasons. first of all, it's about the scheme itself. it's actually delivering economic transformation and it's a big investment capacity . arnie so investment in capacity. arnie so actually of the things it actually one of the things it will even people will do even for people that don't frees up a load of don't use it, frees up a load of capacity on the west coast main line, enabling us to deliver better services , passenger better services, passenger services, but also freight services, but also freight services to get freight off of our roads and onto rail. it's a

significant investment. and look, let me give you an example. lots of people when we were delivering crossrail moaned about the cost and the delays. now that it's the elizabeth line andifs now that it's the elizabeth line and it's open, it's very popular and it's open, it's very popular and no one thinks that we shouldn't have invested the money to deliver it. and i'm confident that once hs2 is open and functioning, that's exactly what people will think. then but you say once it's opening aha— but you say once it's opening and functioning,— but you say once it's opening and functioning, actually, it's not going— and functioning, actually, it's hot tome to— and functioning, actually, it's not going to come to london for seveat— not going to come to london for seveat years— not going to come to london for seveat years .— not going to come to london for several years . what's the point several years. what's the point in several years. what's the point he the— several years. what's the point he the rat— several years. what's the point in the rail link— several years. what's the point in the rail link if— several years. what's the point in the rail link if it doesn't come-euston- in the rail link if it doesn't come-euston ?- in the rail link if it doesn't come euston ? well look, come into euston? well look, we've committed— come into euston? well look, we've committed to having it run trom— we've committed to having it run from tustoh— we've committed to having it run from euston to— we've committed to having it run from euston to manchester. i have— from euston to manchester. i have hau— from euston to manchester. i have had to— from euston to manchester. i have had to make— from euston to manchester. i have had to make some- from euston to manchester. i have had to make some delays on euston station and on the middle section of the rail line because i've also got some make sure that our plans are affordable for taxpayer layer. and for the taxpayer layer. and inflation is running very high at the moment. so phase one is from oak common in west from old oak common in west london all the way through to just are just north of birmingham. we are absolutely arnie delivering that full steam ahead that is mobilised . all the contractors

mobilised. all the contractors are working on it and that is being and you go to being built. and if you go to birmingham talk andy birmingham and you talk to andy street, see the street, you'll see the transformation it's having transformation that it's having in that city. and the government is committed to delivering it all the from euston to all the way from euston to manchester and plans manchester and those plans are being again, there's a being done again, there's a small in delivering them, small delay in delivering them, but we're to taking small delay in delivering them, but irailway to taking small delay in delivering them, but irailway line to taking small delay in delivering them, but irailway line right:o taking small delay in delivering them, but irailway line right into (ing small delay in delivering them, but irailway line right into the that railway line right into the heart of central . london does heart of central. london does the government have- ”�* does the government have the power to stop— the government have the power to stop sadiq— the government have the power to stop satra shah-s— the government have the power to stop sadiq khan's ulez, which is provthe— stop sadiq khan's ulez, which is provmp to— stop sadiq khan's ulez, which is provmp to he— stop sadiq khan's ulez, which is proving to be more— stop sadiq khan's ulez, which is proving to be more unpopular by the stay— proving to be more unpopular by the hay .— proving to be more unpopular by the hay . — proving to be more unpopular by the hay . rt— proving to be more unpopular by the hay. rt ts— proving to be more unpopular by the day . it is very— proving to be more unpopular by the day. l rrzig l. the day. it is very unpopular, absolutely right . but it is the absolutely right. but it is the mayor of london's response ability, the power to rule out schemes like that are devolved . schemes like that are devolved. so it is his responsibility , it so it is his responsibility, it is his decision. and my message is his decision. and my message is very clear. if you're if you don't like what he's doing , then don't like what he's doing, then you'll have an opportunity. londoners will have an opportunity in the ballot box next year express view next year to express that view very you're right. it's very clearly. you're right. it's unpopular . very clearly. you're right. it's unpopular. i've had it raised with me lots of people, not with me by lots of people, not just but around just in london, but around london. but i don't have the

power to stop happening. it's power to stop it happening. it's a devolved responsibility . the a devolved responsibility. the mayor of london is responsible for it. he is accountable. and it's for voters to hold him accountable very quick question, mr harper, which requires a very brief answer. we've seen this aoorth— brief answer. we've seen this cartoon depicting— brief answer. we've seen this cartoon depicting the- we've seen this cartoon depicting the bbc hatrmah— cartoon depicting the bbc chairman, chairman in the euarttah.— chairman, chairman in the guardian. it's— chairman, chairman in the guardian. it's been accused of herpe— guardian. it's been accused of hemp amt— guardian. it's been accused of being anti semitic. do you think that— being anti semitic. do you think that depiction— being anti semitic. do you think that depiction of— being anti semitic. do you think that depiction of richard sharpe is anti—semitic— that depiction of richard sharpe is anti—semitic .— that depiction of richard sharpe is anti—semitic . _ that depiction of richard sharpe is anti—semitic . kcprygu that depiction of richard sharpe is anti—semitic . �*vvirill is anti—semitic. well, i think the fact that the guardian has apologised and has taken the cartoon down rather demonstrates anti semitic. it's very suitable. i just think , well, suitable. i just think, well, anti—semitism . anti—semitism is anti—semitism. anti—semitism is totally unacceptable . and i totally unacceptable. and i think if you look at that cartoon, there are lots of anti semitic tropes that are expressed in the cartoon and the guardian shouldn't have used it. and the fact that they've taken it down, i'm going to have to leave rather suggest leave it there rather suggest that bad for joining that they made a bad forjoining me. thank you forjoining me me. thank you for joining me thts— me. thank you for joining me thts morning-— me. thank you for joining me this morning. lots— thank you for joining me this morning. lots more come, this morning. lots more to come, thotutthp— this morning. lots more to come, including-liberal- including a former liberal democrat— including a former liberal democrat leader, sir vince

catte— democrat leader, sir vince cable-tuned- democrat leader, sir vince cable.-tuned .- democrat leader, sir vince cable. tuned . don't go cable. stay tuned. don't go anywhere— cable. stay tuned. don't go anywhere .—

we've got lots more to come on

the camilla tominey show today, including former liberal democrat leader sir vince cable, who's going to tell me how he thinks party is getting on. thinks his party is getting on. a mp is going tell me a tory mp is going to tell me why— a tory mp is going to tell me vhylththts— a tory mp is going to tell me why-thinks we— a tory mp is going to tell me why thinks we should be why he thinks we should be tatthe— why he thinks we should be taking refugees— why he thinks we should be taking refugees from sudan. and sir taking refugees from sudan. and str—vttt- taking refugees from sudan. and str—vttt he- sir anthony seldon will be ttsoussthp — sir anthony seldon will be discussing. new - sir anthony seldon will be discussing new book, johnson discussing his new book, johnson at-att— discussing his new book, johnson at-att that— discussing his new book, johnson at-all that after— discussing his new book, johnson at all that after the news at ten. all that after the news vtth— at ten. all that after the news ohm—.- at ten. all that after the newsi with _. camilla, with tatiana sanchez. camilla, thaht— with tatiana sanchez. camilla, thank you— with tatiana sanchez. camilla, thank you very— with tatiana sanchez. camilla, thank you very much. and good momthp. — thank you very much. and good morning- rhts— thank you very much. and good morning. this is— thank you very much. and good morning. this is the latest from the hesroom— morning. this is the latest from the newsroom. the— morning. this is the latest from the newsroom. the final evacuation _ the newsroom. the final evacuation flight carrying hrtttsh— evacuation flight carrying british nationals has departed khartoum — british nationals has departed khartoum deputy prime minister ortver— khartoum deputy prime minister oliver dowden_ khartoum deputy prime minister oliver dowden said rescue operattohs— oliver dowden said rescue operations ended following a srphtttoaht— operations ended following a significant decline in the humerh— significant decline in the humerh ot— significant decline in the number of british nationals eomthe— number of british nationals coming forward— number of british nationals coming forward to flee. nearly hoo— coming forward to flee. nearly moo peopte— coming forward to flee. nearly rooo peopre oh— coming forward to flee. nearly 1900 people on 21 flights have been— 1900 people on 21 flights have been evacuated— 1900 people on 21 flights have been evacuated .— 1900 people on 21 flights have been evacuated . however, there been evacuated. however, there are been evacuated. however, there stut— been evacuated. however, there are still thousands— been evacuated. however, there are still thousands of british otttzehs— are still thousands of british citizens stuck— are still thousands of british citizens stuck amid fighting nhs nurses across the _ citizens stuck amid fighting nhs nurses across the country will watt— nurses across the country will vatt out— nurses across the country will walk out from _ nurses across the country will walk out from 8:00 this evening in walk out from 8:00 this evening he a—

walk out from 8:00 this evening he a zo— walk out from 8:00 this evening he a 28 hour— walk out from 8:00 this evening in a 28 hour strike— walk out from 8:00 this evening in a 28 hour strike over pay in a parrot— in a 28 hour strike over pay in a ballot earlier— in a 28 hour strike over pay in a ballot earlier on— in a 28 hour strike over pay in a ballot earlier on this month , a ballot earlier on this month, soro— a ballot earlier on this month, sore ot— a ballot earlier on this month, sore or pep — a ballot earlier on this month, 54% of rcn members rejected the oovermheh-st— 54% of rcn members rejected the government's offer— 54% of rcn members rejected the government's offer of a 5% pay me— government's offer of a 5% pay trom — government's offer of a 5% pay rise from april— government's offer of a 5% pay rise from april .— government's offer of a 5% pay rise from april . great ormond rise from april. great ormond street— rise from april. great ormond street hospitals— rise from april. great ormond street hospitals among organisations where nurses have agreea— organisations where nurses have agreed to— organisations where nurses have agreed to keep— organisations where nurses have agreed to keep limited staff working— agreed to keep limited staff working after— agreed to keep limited staff working after voicing concerns about— working after voicing concerns about patients— working after voicing concerns about patients during the vattout— about patients during the vattout .— about patients during the walkout , nhs— about patients during the walkout, nhs england is urging the puhtto— walkout, nhs england is urging the puhho to— walkout, nhs england is urging the public to use— walkout, nhs england is urging the public to use the health servtoe— the public to use the health service wisely.— the public to use the health service wisely. it— the public to use the health service wisely. it said. tmergehey— service wisely. it said. emergency and urgent care would the— emergency and urgent care would remain the priority— emergency and urgent care would remain the priority . arnie, the remain the priority. arnie, the heart— remain the priority. arnie, the heart or— remain the priority. arnie, the head of global— remain the priority. arnie, the head of global projects at young votoes— head of global projects at young votoes oh,— head of global projects at young voices uk, jason— head of global projects at young voices uk, jason reed, told gb heus— voices uk, jason reed, told gb news the— voices uk, jason reed, told gb news the nurses— voices uk, jason reed, told gb news the nurses strike is the wrong— news the nurses strike is the were three— news the nurses strike is the vrohp three to— news the nurses strike is the wrong thing to do . wrong thing to do. just hate to think of all those patients and all those families who will suffer directly as a result of the of what the rcn are doing. if they really were concerned about patient safety, i don't think that they would be doing this. i don't think you could have a clear conscience to walk out if you're an intensive care nurse cancer nurse and say nurse or a cancer nurse and say that it was patient safety that was motivating you. pretty clearly. they want clearly. they just want to squeeze a extra pounds out

squeeze a few extra pounds out of the government. our money, of course, paying course, that we're paying through taxes . so just through taxes. and so it's just not a situation that the government should to government should should give to in a precedent for in and set a precedent for future strikes that this is an okay thing to do. but emily crawford, the assistant editor at prospect magazine, says that nurses are putting patients lives at risk due to being overworked . and if nurses have overworked. and if nurses have been— overworked. and if nurses have been so— overworked. and if nurses have been so overworked— 2 and if nurses have been so overworked and understaffed— been so overworked and understaffed for the past few yeas— understaffed for the past few yea that— understaffed for the past few yea that h— understaffed for the past few years, that in itself has been a rtst— years, that in itself has been a rtst to— years, that in itself has been a risk to patient— years, that in itself has been a risk to patient safety anyway, tast— risk to patient safety anyway, tast yea. — risk to patient safety anyway, tast yea. r— risk to patient safety anyway, last year, i think— risk to patient safety anyway, last year, i think last year there— last year, i think last year there were— last year, i think last year there were 40,000 full time nurses vacancies— there were 40,000 full time nurses vacancies in england . if nurses vacancies in england. if got— nurses vacancies in england. if we've got massive, massive gaps ute— we've got massive, massive gaps the that,— we've got massive, massive gaps the that, r— we've got massive, massive gaps like that, i think— we've got massive, massive gaps like that, i think patient satety— like that, i think patient satety has— like that, i think patient safety has already been at risk for safety has already been at risk tor a— safety has already been at risk tor a vhtte. — safety has already been at risk for a while. the— safety has already been at risk for a while. e for a while. the british army has begun rehearsals for the king's coronation soldiers from all divisions of the armed forces have gathered at training areas across london to areas across south london to prepare for the biggest ceremonial event of their lives. soldiers have flown home from operational duties of war training, exercises from as far as cyprus, iraq , kenya and as cyprus, iraq, kenya and estonia to represent their

regiments and corpse at the event. regiments and corpse at the event . tv online dab+ radio and event. tv online dab+ radio and on tune in. this is gb news. now it's back to . it's back to. camilla welcome back to the camilla tominey show. i'm going to be speaking to vince cable, the former lib dem leader, in just a jiffy. i'm also going to be speaking curtis. he's speaking to john curtis. he's britain's pollster, find britain's top pollster, to find out , well, britain's top pollster, to find out, well, going to gain out, well, who's going to gain and going to lose come and who's going to lose come thursday's and thursday's local elections. and sir seldon, author sir anthony seldon, who's author of ten, it's a of johnson and ten, it's a sensation we're very, sensation book, and we're very, very have him on the very lucky to have him on the show for his first tv interview about now, sir vince about that. now, sir vince cable, i hope, now, cable, i hope, joins me now, former liberal democrat leader sir feel honoured to sir vince, we feel honoured to have your presence on the show because having because we've had been having a bit trouble getting lib dems bit of trouble getting lib dems on. went the press office, on. we went to the press office, we asked for the leader. he couldn't do it. we asked for any

mp, they couldn't do it. so we've had to rely on you. a former lib dem mp. why do you think the lib dems have got a problem with gb news as well? i would hope not. i know several of would hope not. i know several or my— would hope not. i know several or my former— 2 i know several of my former colleagues appear on your— of my former colleagues appear on your news channels, so anyway — on your news channels, so anyway, rm— on your news channels, so anyway, i'm happy to be here. i hetteve— anyway, i'm happy to be here. i hetteve th— anyway, i'm happy to be here. i hetteve th r— anyway, i'm happy to be here. i believe in i know— anyway, i'm happy to be here. i believe in i know your general amt— believe in i know your general mm or— believe in i know your general drift of politics— believe in i know your general drift of politics is— believe in i know your general drift of politics is a bit to the— drift of politics is a bit to the hem— drift of politics is a bit to the ham or— drift of politics is a bit to the right of mine, but i believe in the right of mine, but i believe he mytho— the right of mine, but i believe he trymp to— the right of mine, but i believe he trymp to put— the right of mine, but i believe in trying to put my weight into a ott— in trying to put my weight into a htt moe— in trying to put my weight into a bit more balance. so i don't have— a bit more balance. so i don't have any— a bit more balance. so i don't have any problem— a bit more balance. so i don't have any problem speaking to him . heu.— have any problem speaking to him . heu. vehe— have any problem speaking to him . well, we're absolutely- . well, we're absolutely delighted to have you, vince. now, let's look ahead to the local elections on thursday. what are your predictions as you've been in politics for a long, long time? um, obviously, there's an opportunity to capitalise on perhaps some tory losses. how do you think the lib dems are going to do? well, a good starting point is what the conservatives batus themselves predicted. they said we think wee-to— predicted. they said we think we're-to-about- we're going to lose about a thousand— we're going to lose about a thousand-now- we're going to lose about a thousand-now .- we're going to lose about a thousand now . that means thousand seats now. that means that— thousand seats now. that means that when— thousand seats now. that means that when they— thousand seats now. that means that when they lose 7 or 800, they-tr— that when they lose 7 or 800, they-tt he — that when they lose 7 or 800, they'll be able— that when they lose 7 or 800, they'll be able to— that when they lose 7 or 800, they'll be able to claim it was

a great— they'll be able to claim it was a great vretory. — they'll be able to claim it was a great victory. it— they'll be able to claim it was a great victory. it wasn't as hatt— a great victory. it wasn't as had as— a great victory. it wasn't as had as they-a— a great victory. it wasn't as bad as they'd feared. now, vtthth— bad as they'd feared. now, within that— bad as they'd feared. now, within that context, mean, we within that context, i mean, we mov— within that context, i mean, we know the — within that context, i mean, we know the conservative tvs are going— know the conservative tvs are 90ing to— know the conservative tvs are tome to rose— know the conservative tvs are going to lose quite a lot of seats— going to lose quite a lot of seats-local— going to lose quite a lot of seats local councils, going to lose quite a lot of seats-local councils, of seats in local councils, some of it seats in local councils, some of ttltooat— seats in local councils, some of it.local reasons,— seats in local councils, some of it local reasons, most of it it for local reasons, most of it tor— it for local reasons, most of it tor hattohat— it for local reasons, most of it for national-some. it for local reasons, most of it for national some of for national reasons. some of them — for national reasons. some of them to— for national reasons. some of them to labour,— for national reasons. some of them to labour, some of them to us. them to labour, some of them to so— them to labour, some of them to so r— them to labour, some of them to so r vouta— them to labour, some of them to us. so i would be— them to labour, some of them to us. so i would be disappointed if us. so i would be disappointed tr the— us. so i would be disappointed tr the th— us. so i would be disappointed if the lib dems— us. so i would be disappointed if the lib dems didn't get gains of if the lib dems didn't get gains or seveat— if the lib dems didn't get gains of several hundred and win seveat— of several hundred and win several councils— of several hundred and win several councils of which is cambridgeshire_ several councils of which is cambridgeshire , is probably the cambridgeshire, is probably the most— cambridgeshire, is probably the most promrsmo— cambridgeshire, is probably the most promising at the moment. amt— most promising at the moment. and are— most promising at the moment. and you— most promising at the moment. and are you worried— most promising at the moment. and are you worried a— most promising at the moment. and are you worried a little- most promising at the moment. and are you worried a little bit about your leader's visibility ? about your leader's visibility? i only ask because when yougov polled people to ask whether they had heard of sir ed davey only 55% said yes. he's got a visibility problem, hasn't he? certainly compared to you ? certainly compared to you? well, anybody who's leads the lib well, anybody who's leads the up oems— well, anybody who's leads the up oems has— well, anybody who's leads the lib dems has problem times between— lib dems has problem times between elections because we tena— between elections because we tend hot— between elections because we tend not to— between elections because we tend not to get— between elections because we tend not to get a— between elections because we tend not to get a great deal of eoveraep tho— tend not to get a great deal of coverage. erg when i was a cathet— coverage. erg when i was a cabinet minister— coverage. erg when i was a cabinet minister in the coalition,— cabinet minister in the coalition, i— cabinet minister in the coalition, i would get daily puhrrerty— coalition, i would get daily publicity when— coalition, i would get daily publicity when i became leader

of publicity when i became leader or the— publicity when i became leader or the th— publicity when i became leader of the lib dems,— publicity when i became leader of the lib dems, it was extra orathartty— of the lib dems, it was extra ordinarily difficult to get any kha— ordinarily difficult to get any heat or— ordinarily difficult to get any kind of exposure and it only changea— kind of exposure and it only changed when— kind of exposure and it only changed when in 2019 elections we changed when in 2019 elections ve a tot— changed when in 2019 elections we won a lot of— changed when in 2019 elections we won a lot of council seats, ahout— we won a lot of council seats, about too. — we won a lot of council seats, about 700. then— we won a lot of council seats, about 700. then went on to do very— about 700. then went on to do very vett— about 700. then went on to do very vett th— about 700. then went on to do very well in the— about 700. then went on to do very well in the european eteottohs— very well in the european elections, and— very well in the european elections, and our public optmoh— elections, and our public opinion ratings shot up% we were then— opinion ratings shot up% we were then squeezed— opinion ratings shot up% we were then soueezet hy— opinion ratings shot up% we were then squeezed by people, trrphtehea— then squeezed by people, frightened of— then squeezed by people, frightened of jeremy corbyn or amt—heart— frightened of jeremy corbyn or ahtt—hrevtt .— frightened of jeremy corbyn or anti—brexit , and— frightened of jeremy corbyn or anti—brexit , and we got squeezed anti—brexit, and we got squeezed in anti—brexit, and we got squeezed th the— anti—brexit, and we got squeezed th the genera— anti—brexit, and we got squeezed in the general election . but i in the general election. but i ththh— in the general election. but i ththh ta— in the general election. but i think ed davies— in the general election. but i think ed davies in in the context— think ed davies in in the context or— think ed davies in in the context of a— think ed davies in in the context of a competitive eteottoh— context of a competitive election as— context of a competitive election as we - context of a competitive election as we have now, is petttho— election as we have now, is aettme a— election as we have now, is getting a higher— election as we have now, is getting a higher profile and vttt— getting a higher profile and vttt eet— getting a higher profile and will get higher— getting a higher profile and will get higher recognition. and if will get higher recognition. and tr ve— will get higher recognition. and tr ve ao— will get higher recognition. and tr we do vett— will get higher recognition. and if we do well, as— will get higher recognition. and if we do well, as i— will get higher recognition. and if we do well, as i expect us to do .— if we do well, as i expect us to do , rt— if we do well, as i expect us to do , tt vttt— if we do well, as i expect us to do , it will translate into do, it will translate into hotter— do, it will translate into better national ratings . can you better national ratings. can you otartty— better national ratings. can you clarify, because _ better national ratings. can you clarify, because i— better national ratings. can you clarify, because i don't know what— clarify, because i don't know what rt— clarify, because i don't know what tt ts— clarify, because i don't know what it is, but— clarify, because i don't know what it is, but what is the mem— what it is, but what is the current lib— what it is, but what is the current lib dem policy on europe 7 current lib dem policy on europe e the— current lib dem policy on europe e the pottoy— current lib dem policy on europe e the potroy oh— current lib dem policy on europe ? the policy on europe- current lib dem policy on europe ? the policy on europe is- current lib dem policy on europe ? the policy on europe is to rebuild our economic and political relations with europe , which have been very badly damaged by brexit. i think we

recognise damaged by brexit. i think we reomose th— damaged by brexit. i think we recognise in practical- 222 fié”r:i;a< e ithink we recognise in practical terms we oar-t— recognise in practical terms we oah-t he— recognise in practical terms we can't be talking— recognise in practical terms we can't be talking about rejoining in can't be talking about rejoining th the— can't be talking about rejoining th the heat— can't be talking about rejoining in the next few— can't be talking about rejoining in the next few years. it's not teasthte— in the next few years. it's not feasible that— in the next few years. it's not feasible that there is no pottttoat— feasible that there is no political consensus in the uk aha— political consensus in the uk and ms— political consensus in the uk and he very— political consensus in the uk and it's very doubtful if the european— and it's very doubtful if the european union— and it's very doubtful if the european union would want us tach— european union would want us hast ahyvay— european union would want us hast ahyvay m— european union would want us back anyway in current circumstances . but we should try circumstances. but we should try to rebutta— circumstances. but we should try to rebuild connections within thts— to rebuild connections within thts ts— to rebuild connections within thts ts a— to rebuild connections within this is a personal rather than a pottoy— this is a personal rather than a potrey vrevv— this is a personal rather than a potrey hut— this is a personal rather than a policy view. but i— this is a personal rather than a policy view. but i would think that— policy view. but i would think that vtthth— policy view. but i would think that within a _ policy view. but i would think that within a decade public opthtoh— that within a decade public opmroh vttt— that within a decade public opinion will have swung so far that— opinion will have swung so far that ve— opinion will have swung so far that we vttt— opinion will have swung so far that we will again be talking about— that we will again be talking ahout joining— that we will again be talking about joining institutions of the turopeah— about joining institutions of the european union, which may then— the european union, which may then he— the european union, which may then he a— the european union, which may then he a very— the european union, which may then be a very different kind of armat— then be a very different kind of ahtmat. hut— then be a very different kind of animal. but in— then be a very different kind of animal. but in the— then be a very different kind of animal. but in the meantime, so are animal. but in the meantime, so you— animal. but in the meantime, so you you— animal. but in the meantime, so are you are you saying that rejoining— are you are you saying that retommp the— are you are you saying that rejoining the rejoining the eu mteht— rejoining the rejoining the eu mteht he— rejoining the rejoining the eu might be something that we would do might be something that we would ao tr— might be something that we would do tr the— might be something that we would do tr the th— might be something that we would do if the lib dems— might be something that we would do if the lib dems gained more power? — do if the lib dems gained more power? r— do if the lib dems gained more povere r heav— do if the lib dems gained more power? i know you're- do if the lib dems gained more power? 2 power? i know you're not saying immediately, but you're talking aboutin immediately, but you're talking about in ten years time. well, i don't use the word— about in ten years time. well, i don't use the word rejoin- ? til" art??? 2 well, i don't use the word rejoin join heause— don't use the word rejoin join heause r— don't use the word rejoin join because i think— don't use the word rejoin join because i think in ten years ttme— because i think in ten years ttme europe— because i think in ten years time europe will— because i think in ten years time europe will look very atttereht. — time europe will look very different. you— time europe will look very different. you know, ukraine vttt— different. you know, ukraine vrtt prohahty— different. you know, ukraine will probably be a member ouatrtes— will probably be a member countries from _ will probably be a member countries from the west balkans

. so— countries from the west balkans . so vett— countries from the west balkans . so wet he— countries from the west balkans . so we'll be talking about joining— . so we'll be talking about joining a— . so we'll be talking about joining a different kind of set up. out— joining a different kind of set up. hut what— joining a different kind of set up. but what the lib dems have done— up. but what the lib dems have done ts— up. but what the lib dems have done ts set— up. but what the lib dems have done is set out— up. but what the lib dems have done is set out a— up. but what the lib dems have done is set out a roadmap , done is set out a roadmap, hutttthe— done is set out a roadmap, building up— done is set out a roadmap, building up the— done is set out a roadmap, building up the kind of close economic connections we had through— economic connections we had through the— economic connections we had through the single market, the toss— through the single market, the toss ot— through the single market, the loss of which— through the single market, the loss of which is— through the single market, the loss of which is now doing a great— loss of which is now doing a great teat— loss of which is now doing a great teat ot— loss of which is now doing a great deal of damage to the uk eoomy so— great deal of damage to the uk economy. so we're— great deal of damage to the uk economy. so we're not talking about— economy. so we're not talking about rejoining— economy. so we're not talking about rejoining or— economy. so we're not talking about rejoining or just casting astte— about rejoining or just casting astte the— about rejoining or just casting aside the existing arrangement. it's aside the existing arrangement. rt-s rust— aside the existing arrangement. it's just impractical . aside the existing arrangement. it's just impractical. but we do vam— it's just impractical. but we do want to— it's just impractical. but we do want to rebuild— it's just impractical. but we do want to rebuild our with europe . str— want to rebuild our with europe . str vmoe— want to rebuild our with europe . sir vince cable,— want to rebuild our with europe . sir vince cable, thank- want to rebuild our with europe . sir vince cable, thank you so much for joining . sir vince cable, thank you so much forjoining me this much for joining me this morning. lovely to see you . now morning. lovely to see you. now we're going to go from yellow to blue because i'm now joined by tim loughton, who's the tory mp for east worthing and shoreham . for east worthing and shoreham. mr loughton is also one of the mps who has been trying to make an amendment to the illegal immigration bill. and tim, explain what you've succeeded in doing because you were concerned about the lack of safe routes, particularly child migrants

particularly for child migrants . morning, camila. yes, so the httt— . morning, camila. yes, so the out vhtoh— . morning, camila. yes, so the bill which went— morning, camila. yes, so the bill which went through the commons— bill which went through the commons last— bill which went through the commons last week, there were two— commons last week, there were two mah— commons last week, there were two aeas— commons last week, there were two main areas of— commons last week, there were two main areas of concern which i two main areas of concern which r hat. — two main areas of concern which r hat. r— two main areas of concern which that. r support— two main areas of concern which i had. i support the— two main areas of concern which i had. i support the bill. we met— i had. i support the bill. we met to— i had. i support the bill. we met to he— i had. i support the bill. we need to be much- i had. i support the bill. we need to be much tougher on those peopte— need to be much tougher on those peopre eommt— need to be much tougher on those peopre eommt to— need to be much tougher on those people coming to here illegally and people coming to here illegally art the— people coming to here illegally art the peopte— people coming to here illegally and the people smugglers behind them.— and the people smugglers behind them. out— and the people smugglers behind them. but there— and the people smugglers behind them. but there are two areas where— them. but there are two areas where r— them. but there are two areas where i thought— them. but there are two areas where i thought we could strehttheh— where i thought we could strengthen the bill. first of all,— strengthen the bill. first of art—have- strengthen the bill. first of. all,_have properly all, we need to have properly tetthet— all, we need to have properly tetthet .— all, we need to have properly defined , accessible, safe and defined, accessible, safe and retar— defined, accessible, safe and tetat routes— defined, accessible, safe and legal routes for— defined, accessible, safe and legal routes for those genuine asytum— legal routes for those genuine asylum seekers— legal routes for those genuine asylum seekers that we've taken in asylum seekers that we've taken th the — asylum seekers that we've taken th the th— asylum seekers that we've taken th the th the— asylum seekers that we've taken in the in the past— asylum seekers that we've taken in the in the past to be able to come here from _ in the in the past to be able to come here from places of danger ,-pe.aaatpm,_ come here from places of danger , persecution, subject to a , from persecution, subject to a cap— , from persecution, subject to a cap aht— , from persecution, subject to a cap and particularly if they've got cap and particularly if they've tot hats— cap and particularly if they've got links already— cap and particularly if they've got links already with family in the rmttet— got links already with family in the united kingdom. the second area we have concerns is about tetehttoh— area we have concerns is about tetehttoh ot— area we have concerns is about detention of children . we detention of children. we brought— detention of children. we hroutht th— detention of children. we brought in laws back in 2014 vhtoh— brought in laws back in 2014 vhtoh put— brought in laws back in 2014 vhtoh put a— brought in laws back in 2014 which put a limit on the time you— which put a limit on the time you ooutt— which put a limit on the time you could detain— which put a limit on the time you could detain children in a home— you could detain children in a home otttoe— you could detain children in a home office facilities. i think that-s— home office facilities. i think that's that's— home office facilities. i think that's that's right . we need to that's that's right. we need to treat— that's that's right. we need to treat children— that's that's right. we need to treat children sensitively and tttterehtty— treat children sensitively and differently from _ treat children sensitively and differently from from adults . differently from from adults. mt— differently from from adults. that r— differently from from adults. and i wanted— differently from from adults. and i wanted further safeguards in and i wanted further safeguards th the— and i wanted further safeguards th the httt— and i wanted further safeguards th the out to— and i wanted further safeguards in the bill to make sure we did that,— in the bill to make sure we did that, notwithstanding the new circumstances— that, notwithstanding the new circumstances we had where we've

got circumstances we had where we've tot-tot— circumstances we had where we've tot-tot ot— circumstances we had where we've tot-tot or otter— circumstances we had where we've got lot of older teenage got quite a lot of older teenage oomtht— got quite a lot of older teenage men coming across, particularly trom— men coming across, particularly from athahta— men coming across, particularly from albania we— men coming across, particularly from albania we had year. from albania we had last year. out— from albania we had last year. out there-s— from albania we had last year. out there-s-a— from albania we had last year. but there's a dispute over but there's also a dispute over thetr— but there's also a dispute over thetr ate— but there's also a dispute over therr are apt— but there's also a dispute over their age and the— but there's also a dispute over their age and the whole process of-verification._ their age and the whole process of-verification. so- their age and the whole process of verification. so those of age verification. so those are areas we made progress are two areas we made progress in are two areas we made progress th-aht— are two areas we made progress th-aht there-tr- are two areas we made progress in-and there'll be- are two areas we made progress in and there'll be more in the bill and there'll be more progress. — in the bill and there'll be more progress. -th— in the bill and there'll be more progress. -in the- in the bill and there'll be more progress. in the house progress. i think, in the house of progress. i think, in the house ot-vheh— progress. i think, in the house ot-vheh the— progress. i think, in the house of-when the ball- progress. i think, in the house of when the ball goes on of lords when the ball goes on there— of lords when the ball goes on there th— of lords when the ball goes on there he a— of lords when the ball goes on there in a couple— of lords when the ball goes on there in a couple of weeks. are you— there in a couple of weeks. are you comment— there in a couple of weeks. are you confident with— there in a couple of weeks. are you confident with the measures the government's— you confident with the measures the government's in with the government's putting in with retart— the government's putting in with regard verification? regard to age verification? heause— regard to age verification? because you'll— regard to age verification? because you'll be- regard to age verification? because you'll be familiar with some these stories , you know, some of these stories, you know, men coming in with beards and receding hair lines claiming to be , and there's a be schoolchildren, and there's a real problem. and that didn't uset— real problem. and that didn't usetlhe— real problem. and that didn't usetlhe a— real problem. and that didn't used-be a problem,- ”r:i?l and that didn't used be a problem, but now used to be a problem, but now about— used to be a problem, but now about hatt— used to be a problem, but now about half of— used to be a problem, but now about half of those is subject to ate— about half of those is subject to age verification . turns out to age verification. turns out that— to age verification. turns out that they-re— to age verification. turns out that they're not— to age verification. turns out that they're not children at art.— that they're not children at at. how,— that they're not children at all. now, that's— that they're not children at all. now, that's that's a prohtem. — all. now, that's that's a problem. clearly, we need to mate— problem. clearly, we need to make sure that— problem. clearly, we need to make sure that those people are kept— make sure that those people are kept away— make sure that those people are kept away trom — make sure that those people are kept away from children . and kept away from children. and there— kept away from children. and there have— kept away from children. and there have been— kept away from children. and there have been cases in the past— there have been cases in the past you— there have been cases in the past you actually— there have been cases in the past you actually had young atutts— past you actually had young atutts th— past you actually had young adults in schools, in classes sttttht— adults in schools, in classes sttttht heat— adults in schools, in classes sitting next to _ adults in schools, in classes sitting next to at— adults in schools, in classes sitting next to at young ohtttreh— sitting next to at young children, let— sitting next to at young children, let alone in in various holding centres as as vett— various holding centres as as wet. so— various holding centres as as wet. so thts— various holding centres as as well. so this is— various holding centres as as well. so this is a— various holding centres as as well. so this is a real problem aht— well. so this is a real problem aht ve— well. so this is a real problem aht we met— well. so this is a real problem and we need to— well. so this is a real problem and we need to speed up . and the

and we need to speed up. and the oovemmeh-st— and we need to speed up. and the government's also— and we need to speed up. and the government's also brought in mahtatory— government's also brought in mahtatory ate— government's also brought in mandatory age verification sheets— mandatory age verification checks when _ mandatory age verification checks when there is a query over somebody's_ checks when there is a query over somebody's age. so again, i that— over somebody's age. so again, i that that— over somebody's age. so again, i think that will— over somebody's age. so again, i think that will enhance the bill and think that will enhance the bill aht the— think that will enhance the bill and the process— think that will enhance the bill and the process going forward . and the process going forward. so and the process going forward. so vtth— and the process going forward. so with regard— and the process going forward. so with regard to— and the process going forward. so with regard to the government's reaction to the suttestroh— government's reaction to the suggestion about having safe routes— suggestion about having safe routes tor— suggestion about having safe routes for sudanese refugees , routes for sudanese refugees, there-s— routes for sudanese refugees, there's confusion, isn't there? rte-ve— there's confusion, isn't there? have got— there's confusion, isn't there? have got on — there's confusion, isn't there? have got on the— there's confusion, isn't there? we've got on one hand- there's confusion, isn't there? we've got on one hand andrew mitchell saying that there will be routes. we've got suella be safe routes. we've got suella braverman and saying there won't. what's the actual situation here, sir? well, the whole point of my safe and legal routes amendment was that so and igave routes amendment was that so and i gave the example when i challenged suella braverman in front of the home affairs select committee some months ago that if i were a 16 year old, orphaned boy from an east african country with a relation in the united kingdom , how would in the united kingdom, how would i come to the uk? well, that scenario became— i come to the uk? well, that scenario became a- 2 , well, that scenario became a reality last week— scenario became a reality last week vtth— scenario became a reality last week with people _ scenario became a reality last week with people coming out of outm— week with people coming out of sutah. mt— week with people coming out of sudan. and the— week with people coming out of sudan. and the problem is there are some routes,— sudan. and the problem is there are some routes, but they're

very— are some routes, but they're very difficult— are some routes, but they're very difficult to _ are some routes, but they're very difficult to access, so they-re— very difficult to access, so they're mostly— very difficult to access, so they're mostly through the others— they're mostly through the othct. mt— they're mostly through the unhcr. and if— they're mostly through the unhcr. and if you've got people going— unhcr. and if you've got people tome to— unhcr. and if you've got people going to countries— unhcr. and if you've got people going to countries where the appet— going to countries where the more ts— going to countries where the unhcr is not— going to countries where the unhcr is not represented, it toesh-t— unhcr is not represented, it toesh-t have— unhcr is not represented, it doesn't have some sort of operator— doesn't have some sort of operation where they can process a charm. — operation where they can process aotatm. rheh— operation where they can process a claim. then we've— operation where they can process a claim. then we've got a prohtem. — a claim. then we've got a problem. and— a claim. then we've got a problem. and that's why people then— problem. and that's why people then traver— problem. and that's why people then travel across— problem. and that's why people then travel across other ouhtrtes— then travel across other countries and - then travel across other countries and ultimately some of them — countries and ultimately some of them eht— countries and ultimately some of them eat up— countries and ultimately some of them eat up th— countries and ultimately some of them end up in france trying to get them end up in france trying to eet-to— them end up in france trying to eet-to the— them end up in france trying to eet-to the to— them end up in france trying to get-to the to the- them end up in france trying to get to the to the uk. we get across to the to the uk. we met — get across to the to the uk. we met to — get across to the to the uk. we need to see, first— get across to the to the uk. we need to see, first of all, how tort— need to see, first of all, how toht thts— need to see, first of all, how toht thrsltotht— need to see, first of all, how long this going to go on, long this is going to go on, heause— long this is going to go on, because-ve- long this is going to go on,| because -we -want long this is going to go on,- because -we -want to do because what we don't want to do is because what we don't want to do ts to— because what we don't want to do ts to have— because what we don't want to do ts to have tots— because what we don't want to do is to have lots of— because what we don't want to do is to have lots of people coming here— is to have lots of people coming here-outm— is to have lots of people coming here-sudan when- is to have lots of people coming here sudan when actually is to have lots of people coming here they sudan when actually is to have lots of people coming here they really when actually is to have lots of people coming here they really wanti actually is to have lots of people coming here they really want to ctually is to have lots of people coming here they really want to do ally is to have lots of people coming here they really want to do isy what they really want to do is to he — what they really want to do is to he atte— what they really want to do is to be able to— what they really want to do is to be able to stay— what they really want to do is to be able to stay safely in outm— to be able to stay safely in sham-ve- to be able to stay safely in sudan.-we may- to be able to stay safely in sudan. we may need to be able to stay safely in- sudan.-we may need to be sudan. and so we may need to be part— sudan. and so we may need to be part or— sudan. and so we may need to be part or ah— sudan. and so we may need to be part of an operation.— sudan. and so we may need to be part of an operation. i'm sure there-tr— part of an operation. i'm sure there-rt he— part of an operation. i'm sure there'll be aid— part of an operation. i'm sure there'll be aid money available for there'll be aid money available tor—retuteel for that already into refugee camps— for that already into refugee camps-sate- for that already into refugee camps safe havens camps and other safe havens rose— camps and other safe havens closer-sudan— camps and other safe havens closer sudan until it's safe closer to sudan until it's safe for closer to sudan until it's safe tor—to- closer to sudan until it's safe tor—to to- closer to sudan until it's safe tor—to to haehi closer to sudan until it's safe. for—to go back. we for those people to go back. we do for those people to go back. we to-retutarty.— for those people to go back. we do regularly. we've done do that regularly. we've done that— do that regularly. we've done that vtth— do that regularly. we've done that vtth a— do that regularly. we've done that with a lot— do that regularly. we've done that with a lot of— do that regularly. we've done that with a lot of syrians and tottah— that with a lot of syrians and tortah aht— that with a lot of syrians and jordan and places like jordan and other places like the— jordan and other places like the-that- jordan and other places like like -think that's. jordan and other places like like think that's the like that. so i think that's the first— like that. so i think that's the first prrorrty— like that. so i think that's the first priority that— like that. so i think that's the first priority that needs be first priority that needs to be set-utmos- first priority that needs to be set - lawton, a - first priority that needs to be set-lawton, a final set up. mr lawton, a final question on the coronation, if i may, only because you did create a a storm by a little bit of a storm by tweeting a response to something prince harry had done with the words the f up. i'm

words shut the f up. now i'm wondering whether you think it's a idea the of a good idea that the duke of sussex is coming to the coronation of course he should come -coronation- coronation of course he should come -coronation he's. come to the coronation he's a he-s— come to the coronation he's a he-s-ttht-s— come to the coronation he's a he's-king's son.- come to the coronation he's a he's king's son. what's the he's the king's son. what's the prohtem — he's the king's son. what's the prohtem .that— he's the king's son. what's the problem .that ? - he's the king's son. what's the problem that ? �*vvtrill he's the king's son. what's the problem that? �*vvtrill problem with that? well, you sat— problem with that? well, you sat-vero— problem with that? well, you said were fed up of the said you were fed up of the sussexes and that you weren't proud to be in a constituency associated with sussex because i felt that you felt that they were rather irritating were becoming rather irritating . well, they were becoming rather— . well, they were becoming rather irritating. _ well, they were becoming rather irritating. and my constituents— rather irritating. and my constituents are saying to me, do constituents are saying to me, too-have— constituents are saying to me, do . have i have - constituents are saying to me, do have have somebody who do we have to have somebody who keeps— do we have to have somebody who keeps making— do we have to have somebody who keeps making these— do we have to have somebody who keeps making these rather amoymt— keeps making these rather amoymt apt— keeps making these rather annoying and indiscreet comments keeps making these rather annlfloggingi indiscreet comments keeps making these rather annlflogging books:reet comments keeps making these rather annlflogging books representingits and flogging books representing the ahoteht— and flogging books representing the ancient county of sussex? that— the ancient county of sussex? that as— the ancient county of sussex? rhat my— the ancient county of sussex? that was my frustrate ation. um, he ts— that was my frustrate ation. um, he ts the— that was my frustrate ation. um, he ts the so— that was my frustrate ation. um, he is the son of— that was my frustrate ation. um, he is the son of the— that was my frustrate ation. um, he is the son of the king. he is stru— he is the son of the king. he is stttt a— he is the son of the king. he is stttt a oute.— he is the son of the king. he is still a duke. he's— he is the son of the king. he is still a duke. he's entitled to to— still a duke. he's entitled to to the— still a duke. he's entitled to come to the coronation. i'm sure his come to the coronation. i'm sure hts rather— come to the coronation. i'm sure his father would _ come to the coronation. i'm sure his father would want him at the at the— his father would want him at the at the coronation— his father would want him at the at the coronation but i hope he toesh-t— at the coronation but i hope he toesh-t ttve— at the coronation but i hope he toesh-t the any— at the coronation but i hope he doesn't give any more interviews ahout— doesn't give any more interviews about some— doesn't give any more interviews ahout ot— doesn't give any more interviews about some of the— doesn't give any more interviews about some of the things he's put— about some of the things he's put-hts— about some of the things he's put-hts hoot.- about some of the things he's put-his book. and- about some of the things he's put his book. and we can put in his his book. and we can somehrtte— put in his his book. and we can concentrate on— put in his his book. and we can concentrate on what's going to be concentrate on what's going to he a— concentrate on what's going to be a fantastic,— concentrate on what's going to be a fantastic, important and htstorto— be a fantastic, important and. historic—weekend be a fantastic, important and- historic_weekend . historic occasion next weekend. toyat— historic occasion next weekend. royal britannia— historic occasion next weekend. royal britannia to— historic occasion next weekend. royal britannia to that. - historic occasion next weekend. royal britannia to that. thank you very much, tim lawton, for

joining me this morning. now, i hope now to be joined by professor sir john curtice , professor sir john curtice, who's britain's leading pollster. he's a professor of politics at the university of strathclyde. professor lovely to see you this morning. now please give us your predictions for how thursday is going to turn out for parties. i should for all three parties. i should say more parties, but the main three parties as well. i think the first thing— three parties as well. i think the first thing we— three parties as well. i think the first thing we have- i think the first thing we have to bear in the first thing we have to bear he met,— the first thing we have to bear in mind, claire,— the first thing we have to bear in mind, claire, is— the first thing we have to bear in mind, claire, is the baseline atathst— in mind, claire, is the baseline atamst vhtoh— in mind, claire, is the baseline against which seats gained and host— against which seats gained and host vtt— against which seats gained and host vttt he— against which seats gained and lost will be measured and it is avery— lost will be measured and it is a very, very— lost will be measured and it is a very, very different world porrtreatty— a very, very different world politically from _ a very, very different world politically from the one we now oooupy. — politically from the one we now oeeupy. vve— politically from the one we now oeeupy. we have— politically from the one we now occupy. we have to— politically from the one we now occupy. we have to go back to may— occupy. we have to go back to may zoro. — occupy. we have to go back to may 2019. we're— occupy. we have to go back to may 2019. we're back in the era where— may 2019. we're back in the era where theresa— may 2019. we're back in the era where theresa may— may 2019. we're back in the era where theresa may was still hrtme— where theresa may was still prime minister,— where theresa may was still prime minister, albeit struggling— prime minister, albeit struggling and failing to get her treat— struggling and failing to get her brexit deal— struggling and failing to get her brexit deal through the house— her brexit deal through the house or— her brexit deal through the house of commons. the conservatives- house of commons. the conservatives were down at 26% in conservatives were down at 26% th the— conservatives were down at 26% th the opthtoh— conservatives were down at 26% in the opinion polls given, theretore— in the opinion polls given, therefore how— in the opinion polls given, therefore how poor the baseline is, therefore how poor the baseline ts ve— therefore how poor the baseline ts ve shout,— therefore how poor the baseline is, we should, and— therefore how poor the baseline is, we should, and given that the— is, we should, and given that the toes— is, we should, and given that the tories lost— is, we should, and given that the tories lost 1300 seats in those— the tories lost 1300 seats in those tooat— the tories lost 1300 seats in those local elections , we should

those local elections, we should not necessarily— those local elections, we should not necessarily be— those local elections, we should not necessarily be anticipating very— not necessarily be anticipating very targe— not necessarily be anticipating very tarte seate— not necessarily be anticipating very large scale conservative tosses— very large scale conservative losses, even if— very large scale conservative losses, even if the party ends up stru— losses, even if the party ends up still below— losses, even if the party ends up still below the equivalent to soro— up still below the equivalent to ooro th— up still below the equivalent to ooro th the— up still below the equivalent to 30% in the national vote, which is 30% in the national vote, which ts where— 30% in the national vote, which ts vhere rt— 30% in the national vote, which is where it still— 30% in the national vote, which is where it still is— 30% in the national vote, which is where it still is in the opthtoh— is where it still is in the opinion polls- is where it still is in the opinion polls ,- is where it still is in the opinion polls , the tories are opinion polls, the tories are rust— opinion polls, the tories are rust srmpty— opinion polls, the tories are just simply defining a very poor hasetthe. — just simply defining a very poor baseline. -said_ just simply defining a very poor baseline. -said ,_ just simply defining a very poor baseline. -said , of- just simply defining a very poor baseline. said , of course baseline. that said, of course tahour— baseline. that said, of course tahour are— baseline. that said, of course labour are now— baseline. that said, of course labour are now in— baseline. that said, of course labour are now in a markedly stronger— labour are now in a markedly stronger position— labour are now in a markedly stronger position in in the opthtoh— stronger position in in the opinion polls.— stronger position in in the opinion polls. they've got about aroro— opinion polls. they've got about aroro potat— opinion polls. they've got about a 1516 point lead— opinion polls. they've got about a 1516 point lead at the moment , whereas they— a 1516 point lead at the moment , whereas they also— a 1516 point lead at the moment , whereas they also were doing pretty— , whereas they also were doing pretty patty— , whereas they also were doing pretty hatry th— , whereas they also were doing pretty badly in may 2019. it was a ptatue— pretty badly in may 2019. it was a ptatue oh— pretty badly in may 2019. it was a plague on both— pretty badly in may 2019. it was a plague on both houses that was the messaet— a plague on both houses that was the message from _ a plague on both houses that was the message from the electorate in the message from the electorate th the— the message from the electorate th the heat— the message from the electorate in the local ballot— the message from the electorate in the local ballot boxes on that— in the local ballot boxes on that occasion— in the local ballot boxes on that occasion .— in the local ballot boxes on that occasion . june. but because that occasion. june. but because oooo— that occasion. june. but because oooo ot— that occasion. june. but because oooo or the— that occasion. june. but because 5000 of the 8000— that occasion. june. but because 5000 of the 8000 seats are being oohtestet— 5000 of the 8000 seats are being oohtestet th— 5000 of the 8000 seats are being contested in the— 5000 of the 8000 seats are being contested in the small district oouhotts— contested in the small district councils that— contested in the small district councils that occupy much of more rural england , places where more rural england, places where otter— more rural england, places where otteh tahour— more rural england, places where often labour are— more rural england, places where often labour are not competitive . mt— often labour are not competitive . aht tr— often labour are not competitive . aht rt ahyhoty— often labour are not competitive . and if anybody is— often labour are not competitive . and if anybody is going to shattehte— . and if anybody is going to challenge the— . and if anybody is going to challenge the conservative is it's challenge the conservative is re the— challenge the conservative is it's the liberal— challenge the conservative is it's the liberal democrats . it's the liberal democrats. agath— it's the liberal democrats. team a— it's the liberal democrats. team a rtse— it's the liberal democrats. again, a rise in- it's the liberal democrats. again, a rise in labour support is again, a rise in labour support ts hot— again, a rise in labour support is not necessarily— again, a rise in labour support is not necessarily going to

trahstate— is not necessarily going to translate into _ is not necessarily going to translate into large labour oaths— translate into large labour paths aht— translate into large labour gains and certainly not large changes— gains and certainly not large changes or— gains and certainly not large changes of labour control of oouhotts— changes of labour control of councils because— changes of labour control of councils because the places where— councils because the places where labour— councils because the places where labour have a chance of vtmtht— where labour have a chance of vtmtht th— where labour have a chance of mm he most— where labour have a chance of winning in most of those places, ohty— winning in most of those places, ohty ohe— winning in most of those places, ohty thtrt— winning in most of those places, only one third of— winning in most of those places, only one third of the seats up for only one third of the seats up tor traps— only one third of the seats up for grabs that— only one third of the seats up for grabs that takes us to the ttherat— for grabs that takes us to the liberal democrats. the liberal democrats— liberal democrats. the liberal democrats difficulty is that they— democrats difficulty is that they are— democrats difficulty is that they are defending a good performance— they are defending a good performance in 2019 and that theretore— performance in 2019 and that therefore for— performance in 2019 and that therefore for them making srthrttoaht— therefore for them making significant gains of the kind that— significant gains of the kind that vthoe— significant gains of the kind that vince cable earlier was vahttht— that vince cable earlier was vahttht to— that vince cable earlier was wanting to suggest they might mate— wanting to suggest they might mate .— wanting to suggest they might mate , shatt— wanting to suggest they might make , shall we— wanting to suggest they might make , shall we say. i think it's make, shall we say. i think it's hot— make, shall we say. i think it's not a— make, shall we say. i think it's not a charm— make, shall we say. i think it's not a otatm r— make, shall we say. i think it's not a claim i would necessarily vam— not a claim i would necessarily vant to— not a claim i would necessarily vant to mate— not a claim i would necessarily want to make if— not a claim i would necessarily want to make if i— not a claim i would necessarily want to make if i were them. rte-ve— want to make if i were them. vve-ve tot— want to make if i were them. vve-ve tot a— want to make if i were them. we've got a little— want to make if i were them. we've got a little bit of pottmt— we've got a little bit of porrmt hov— we've got a little bit of polling now as to how people say they— polling now as to how people say they mttht— polling now as to how people say they mrtht vote— polling now as to how people say they might vote the local they might vote in the local eteottohs— they might vote in the local elections and— they might vote in the local elections and a— they might vote in the local elections and a couple of pottmt— elections and a couple of polling companies that certainly suggests— polling companies that certainly suggests-liberal— polling companies that certainly suggests liberal democrats polling companies that certainly sugg simply liberal democrats polling companies that certainly sugg simply repeat al democrats polling companies that certainly sugg simply repeat theirmocrats polling companies that certainly sugg simply repeat their 2019 its may simply repeat their 2019 perormahte — may simply repeat their 2019 performance. the bad news for the conservatives,— performance. the bad news for the conservatives, however, is that— the conservatives, however, is that that— the conservatives, however, is that that polling _ the conservatives, however, is that that polling suggests they mttht— that that polling suggests they mrtht yet— that that polling suggests they mrtht yet even— that that polling suggests they might yet even dip below how they— might yet even dip below how they ttt— might yet even dip below how they ttt th— might yet even dip below how they did in 2019. _ might yet even dip below how they did in 2019. if that were happehet— they did in 2019. if that were happehet .— they did in 2019. if that were happehet . mt— they did in 2019. if that were happened . and then the 1000 happened. and then the 1000 oaths— happened. and then the 1000 paths that— happened. and then the 1000 gains that the— happened. and then the 1000 gains that the tories have been saunt— gains that the tories have been saymt, vett— gains that the tories have been saymt, wat, you—

gains that the tories have been saying, well, you know, that's what— saying, well, you know, that's what mttht— saying, well, you know, that's what might happen, but clearly hopmt— what might happen, but clearly we're hoping won't happen, might aotuatty— we're hoping won't happen, might aetuatry happeh— we're hoping won't happen, might actually happen. but you know, the truth— actually happen. but you know, the truth ts— actually happen. but you know, the truth is that's— actually happen. but you know, the truth is that's the area where— the truth is that's the area where we — the truth is that's the area where we enter— the truth is that's the area where we enter a great degree of uhoertathty— where we enter a great degree of uhoertathty .— where we enter a great degree of uhoertathty. — where we enter a great degree of uncertainty . and— where we enter a great degree of uncertainty. 2 2 uncertainty. and professor, does what happens on thursday have any bearing on what might happen come 2024 when there's obviously the general election ? well, it the general election? well, it doesn't have any— the general election? well, it doesn't have any direct- 2 2 7 well, it doesn't have any direct bearing. mt— doesn't have any direct bearing. that oertathty— doesn't have any direct bearing. and certainly we _ doesn't have any direct bearing. and certainly we need to bear in mtht— and certainly we need to bear in met that— and certainly we need to bear in mind that people— and certainly we need to bear in mind that people don't necessarily— mind that people don't necessarily vote in local eteottohs— necessarily vote in local elections in— necessarily vote in local elections in the way they would in elections in the way they would he a— elections in the way they would he a teherat— elections in the way they would in a general election. in partreutar,— in a general election. in particular, the- in a general election. in particular, the liberal democrats— particular, the liberal democrats are much stronger in root— democrats are much stronger in local elections— democrats are much stronger in local elections at— democrats are much stronger in local elections at any one point in local elections at any one point he ttme— local elections at any one point he ttme thah— local elections at any one point in time than they— local elections at any one point in time than they are, as eomparet— in time than they are, as compared with- in time than they are, as compared with the opinion polls. so compared with the opinion polls. so they— compared with the opinion polls. so they tot— compared with the opinion polls. so they got to— compared with the opinion polls. so they got 19 the— compared with the opinion polls. so they got 19 the equivalent of tetttht— so they got 19 the equivalent of tempt-ot— so they got 19 the equivalent of tettmt-ot the — so they got 19 the equivalent of getting of the vote getting 19% of the vote nationally _ getting 19% of the vote nationally in- getting 19% of the vote nationally in 2019, when there were-mmhe— nationally in 2019, when there were-running at- nationally in 2019, when there were running at 8% the were only running at 8% in the ports— were only running at 8% in the pots .— were only running at 8% in the ports . that— were only running at 8% in the polls . that said,— were only running at 8% in the polls . that said, i— were only running at 8% in the polls . that said, i think what polls. that said, i think what we shoutt— polls. that said, i think what we should be— polls. that said, i think what we should be looking out for, hot— we should be looking out for, hot heause— we should be looking out for, not because this— we should be looking out for, not because this will tell us what— not because this will tell us what ts— not because this will tell us what is inevitable, but will the— what is inevitable, but will the us— what is inevitable, but will the us ah— what is inevitable, but will give us an indication as to whether— give us an indication as to whether or— give us an indication as to whether or not— give us an indication as to whether or not we are in a world where— whether or not we are in a world where a— whether or not we are in a world where a labour— whether or not we are in a world where a labour victory at the heat— where a labour victory at the next election,— where a labour victory at the next election, at— where a labour victory at the next election, at least looks

tempte— next election, at least looks teasthte, ts— next election, at least looks feasible, is whether or not once we att— feasible, is whether or not once we att up— feasible, is whether or not once we att up the— feasible, is whether or not once we add up the votes , not looking we add up the votes, not looking at the— we add up the votes, not looking at the seas— we add up the votes, not looking at the seats, add— we add up the votes, not looking at the seats, add up the votes aht— at the seats, add up the votes aht say,— at the seats, add up the votes aht say, vett— at the seats, add up the votes and say, well actually if everyhoty— and say, well actually if everybody had voted on thursday , hov— everybody had voted on thursday , hov vett— everybody had voted on thursday , how well would— everybody had voted on thursday , how well would the parties have— , how well would the parties have tohe— , how well would the parties have tohe ?— , how well would the parties have done ? if— , how well would the parties have done ? if we look at what have done? if we look at what happehet— have done? if we look at what happehet oh— have done? if we look at what happened on that— have done? if we look at what happened on that measure before root,— happened on that measure before root, hetore— happened on that measure before 1997, before labour— happened on that measure before 1997, before labour marched to vtotory— 1997, before labour marched to vtotory th— 1997, before labour marched to vretory th the— 1997, before labour marched to victory in the general election, tahour— victory in the general election, tahour vvere— victory in the general election, labour were were _ victory in the general election, labour were were double digit teats— labour were were double digit teats aheat— labour were were double digit leads ahead of— labour were were double digit leads ahead of the conservatives on leads ahead of the conservatives oh that— leads ahead of the conservatives on that measure.— leads ahead of the conservatives on that measure. before david cameroh— on that measure. before david cameron walked— on that measure. before david cameron walked into ten downing street— cameron walked into ten downing street th— cameron walked into ten downing street th zoo,— cameron walked into ten downing street in 2010, the _ street in 2010, the conservatives were more than street in 2010, the _ conservatives were more than ten pothts— conservatives were more than ten pothts aheat— conservatives were more than ten pomts aheat ot— conservatives were more than ten points ahead of labour in the heat— points ahead of labour in the local elections. _ points ahead of labour in the local elections. leading up to that— local elections. leading up to that generat— local elections. leading up to that general election. so the truth— that general election. so the truth ts— that general election. so the truth is labour— that general election. so the truth is labour really wants to arso— truth is labour really wants to atso to — truth is labour really wants to atso to he — truth is labour really wants to also to be doing— truth is labour really wants to also to be doing that equivalent and also to be doing that equivalent art that— also to be doing that equivalent art that at— also to be doing that equivalent and that at the— also to be doing that equivalent and that at the end of the day i voutt— and that at the end of the day i voutt suggest— and that at the end of the day i would suggest is— and that at the end of the day i would suggest is the real measure to— would suggest is the real measure to look out for. are tahour— measure to look out for. are tahour totht— measure to look out for. are labour doing better in these tooat— labour doing better in these local actions— labour doing better in these local actions than they have tohe— local actions than they have tohe th— local actions than they have tohe th ahy— local actions than they have done in any local elections she— done in any local elections zoo,— done in any local elections since 2010, which is what you voutt— since 2010, which is what you voutt expect— since 2010, which is what you would expect given the opinion pottse— would expect given the opinion pottse-are— would expect given the opinion polls?-are they— would expect given the opinion polls? are they indeed polls? and are they indeed pertormmt— polls? and are they indeed performing on— polls? and are they indeed performing on a scale that is etutvateht— performing on a scale that is equivalent to— performing on a scale that is equivalent to the— performing on a scale that is equivalent to the previous occasions when- equivalent to the previous occasions when the current opposrttoh— occasions when the current opposition have— occasions when the current opposition have managed to

ttsptaoe— opposition have managed to trsptaee the— opposition have managed to displace the government at the subsequent— displace the government at the subsequent general election in art— subsequent general election in art to— subsequent general election in art to you— subsequent general election in and do you think— subsequent general election in and do you think that migration is and do you think that migration ts a— and do you think that migration ts a key— and do you think that migration rs a hey rssue— and do you think that migration is a key issue come the 2024 teherat— is a key issue come the 2024 general election,— is a key issue come the 2024 general election, whenever that may— general election, whenever that may he,— general election, whenever that may he, perhaps— general election, whenever that may be, perhaps not as much as the conservatives— may be, perhaps not as much as the conservatives anticipate ? i the conservatives anticipate? i tt-s— the conservatives anticipate? i mean, it's certainly true that conservative _ mean, it's certainly true that conservative voters who vote, peopte— conservative voters who vote, peopre vho — conservative voters who vote, peopre who vote— conservative voters who vote, people who vote for the conservatives - people who vote for the conservatives in 2019 are partreutarty— conservatives in 2019 are particularly be - conservatives in 2019 are particularly be concerned about the revet— particularly be concerned about the tevet ot— particularly be concerned about the level of illegal illegal immigration— the level of illegal illegal immigration .— the level of illegal illegal immigration . however, if you immigration. however, if you toot— immigration. however, if you toot at— immigration. however, if you look at whether— immigration. however, if you look at whether or not what those— look at whether or not what those peopte— look at whether or not what those people who voted conservative _ those people who voted conservative in 2019 who think that— conservative in 2019 who think that treat— conservative in 2019 who think that illegal immigration is gone up, you— that illegal immigration is gone up, you mov— that illegal immigration is gone up, you know hov— that illegal immigration is gone up, you know how likely are they to say— up, you know how likely are they to say they— up, you know how likely are they to say they would _ up, you know how likely are they to say they would vote conservative - to say they would vote conservative gain? well, it's arout— conservative gain? well, it's arout 50,— conservative gain? well, it's around 50, but— conservative gain? well, it's around 50, but the same is true of around 50, but the same is true or those— around 50, but the same is true or those peopte— around 50, but the same is true of those people who voted conservative _ of those people who voted conservative in— of those people who voted conservative in 2019 who don't ththt— conservative in 2019 who don't that that— conservative in 2019 who don't think that illegal— conservative in 2019 who don't think that illegal immigration has tone— think that illegal immigration has gone up.— think that illegal immigration has gone up. h— think that illegal immigration has gone up. in other words, tt-s— has gone up. in other words, tt-s hot— has gone up. in other words, it's not clear— has gone up. in other words, it's not clear that- has gone up. in other words, it's not clear that illegal immigration— it's not clear that illegal immigration is the issue that is persuattht— immigration is the issue that is persuading people no longer to

vote.— persuading people no longer to vote. conservative— persuading people no longer to vote. conservative now, if that-s— vote. conservative now, if that's correct— vote. conservative now, if that's correct ,_ vote. conservative now, if that's correct , stopping the that's correct, stopping the boats— that's correct, stopping the boats, therefore, may not necessary— boats, therefore, may not necessarily be - boats, therefore, may not necessarily be the route to tempt— necessarily be the route to tettmt those — necessarily be the route to getting those people who teteotet— getting those people who defected from _ getting those people who defected from the conservatives tact— defected from the conservatives haot atatm— defected from the conservatives hast atath. h— defected from the conservatives back again. in the— defected from the conservatives back again. in the end, i think the honest— back again. in the end, i think the honest truth— back again. in the end, i think the honest truth is that what the honest truth is that what the conservatives will have to do the conservatives will have to to ts— the conservatives will have to to ts they— the conservatives will have to do is they will— the conservatives will have to do is they will have to persuade peopte— do is they will have to persuade peopre that— do is they will have to persuade peopre that-they- do is they will have to persuade people that they are people that they they are restortht — people that they they are restoring the _ people that they they are restoring the fortunes of the eoomy— restoring the fortunes of the economy , including the economy, including the consequences of brexit, and that ohty— consequences of brexit, and that ohty tt— consequences of brexit, and that ohty tr the— consequences of brexit, and that only if the conservatives can resoret— only if the conservatives can restore their— only if the conservatives can restore their reputation for economic competence and begin to persuate— economic competence and begin to persuate voets— economic competence and begin to persuade voters that— economic competence and begin to persuade voters that perhaps they— persuade voters that perhaps they ah— persuade voters that perhaps they toot— persuade voters that perhaps they can look forward to being hotter— they can look forward to being hetter ott. — they can look forward to being better off. because at the omet— better off. because at the moment we're— better off. because at the moment we're suffering moment we're all suffering a market— moment we're all suffering a marked decline— moment we're all suffering a marked decline in living standards.— marked decline in living standards. unless they can reach that— standards. unless they can reach that-rts— standards. unless they can reach that-it's probably- standards. unless they can reach that it's probably going that point, it's probably going toltutte— that point, it's probably going to.quite difficult- that point, it's probably going to quite difficult them to be quite difficult for them to be quite difficult for them to—peoptel to be quite difficult for them. to—peopte vho to persuade enough people who votet— to persuade enough people who votet th— to persuade enough people who voted in conservative in 2019 to reumt— voted in conservative in 2019 to eumt to— voted in conservative in 2019 to eumt to the— voted in conservative in 2019 to return to the fold— voted in conservative in 2019 to return to the fold to be able to torm — return to the fold to be able to tom the — return to the fold to be able to form the next— return to the fold to be able to form the next administration in a tutor— form the next administration in a quick question— form the next administration in a quick question on the coronation— a quick question on the coronation as- a quick question on the coronation as the service fast approaches— coronation as the service fast approaches, professor, where did the to— approaches, professor, where did the to the— approaches, professor, where did the do the royals— approaches, professor, where did the do the royals face an existential— the do the royals face an existential crisis if there are so many— existential crisis if there are so many young— existential crisis if there are so many young people now under

30 so many young people now under to expresstht— so many young people now under 30 expressing republican sentiments— 30 expressing republican sentiments ?— 30 expressing republican sentiments ? well, existential is sentiments? well, existential is perhaps— sentiments? well, existential is perhaps too— sentiments? well, existential is perhaps too ttt— sentiments? well, existential is perhaps too the a— sentiments? well, existential is perhaps too big a claim , but perhaps too big a claim, but tt-s— perhaps too big a claim, but tt-s oertahty— perhaps too big a claim, but it's certainly clear from the pottmt— it's certainly clear from the porrmt that-s— it's certainly clear from the polling that's been released in the tast— polling that's been released in the last week— polling that's been released in the last week from a couple of the— the last week from a couple of sources, the national centre for sootat— sources, the national centre for social research,— sources, the national centre for social research, yougov, that that— social research, yougov, that that support— social research, yougov, that that support for— social research, yougov, that that support for the monarchy is at— that support for the monarchy is at ah— that support for the monarchy is at ah ah— that support for the monarchy is now at an all time— that support for the monarchy is now at an all time low. it's trahtty— now at an all time low. it's frankly declined _ now at an all time low. it's frankly declined during queen tttzaheth— frankly declined during queen tttzaheth s— frankly declined during queen elizabeth s reign, and it's oertathty— elizabeth s reign, and it's certainly true— elizabeth s reign, and it's certainly true that amongst young— certainly true that amongst young pewte— certainly true that amongst young people in particular, there— young people in particular, there tsp-t— young people in particular, there isn't a— young people in particular, there isn't a great deal of support— there isn't a great deal of support tor— there isn't a great deal of support for the- there isn't a great deal of support for the monarchy. now, the truth— support for the monarchy. now, the truth ts— support for the monarchy. now, the truth is, it's— support for the monarchy. now, the truth is, it's always been true— the truth is, it's always been true that— the truth is, it's always been true that younger people have heea— true that younger people have moron-— true that younger people have heehoh- the- true that younger people have been on the monarchy, been less keen on the monarchy, but been less keen on the monarchy, hut-tootet— been less keen on the monarchy, hut-tootet as— been less keen on the monarchy, but looked as though but it's looked as though they-ve— but it's looked as though they've tended to get to support it they've tended to get to support ttlthey-ve— they've tended to get to support ttlthey-ve tot— they've tended to get to support it they've got older. the it as they've got older. the prohtem — it as they've got older. the problem -the - it as they've got older. the problem the monarchy it as they've got older. the- problem -the monarchy is problem now for the monarchy is that— problem now for the monarchy is that-ts— problem now for the monarchy is that-ts mush— problem now for the monarchy is that is much bigger that the gap is much bigger and that—generation- that the gap is much bigger and that—generation of. that the current generation of younger— that the current generation of younger peopte— that the current generation of younger people particularly younger people are particularly tess— younger people are particularly toss—heeh— younger people are particularly toss—teen oh- less likely to be keen on the monarchy— less likely to be keen on the monarchy younger monarchy than even younger peopte— monarchy than even younger peopre zo— monarchy than even younger peopre so, so— monarchy than even younger people 20, 30 years ago . people 20, 30 years ago. hrotessor— people 20, 30 years ago. professor sir— people 20, 30 years ago. professor sir john curtice, thaht— professor sir john curtice, thank you— professor sir john curtice, thank you very- professor sir john curtice, thank you very much for joining me thts— thank you very much for joining me this morning. _ thank you very much for joining me this morning. \rr:irtr” thank you very much for joining me this morning. \rr:irrr” me this morning. now tom harwood, our gb news deputy political editor, has been in milton keynes . i've been asking milton keynes. i've been asking

questions behalf of the questions on behalf of the people's including people's panellists, including neil. ask the transport neil. i did ask the transport secretary, mark harper, what he was doing to improve britain's infrastructure. what did neil make of the answer? tom well, that's right. i'm next to neil mt— that's right. i'm next to neil now. and neil— that's right. i'm next to neil now. and neil did— ”2 i'm next to neil now. and neil did you feel that your— now. and neil did you feel that your tuesttoh— now. and neil did you feel that your question was— now. and neil did you feel that your question was answered ? the your question was answered? the transport— your question was answered? the transport secretary— your question was answered? the transport secretary said that too — transport secretary said that too httttoh — transport secretary said that £20 billion was— transport secretary said that £20 billion was going into infrastructure _ £20 billion was going into infrastructure and capital protects— infrastructure and capital projects from _ infrastructure and capital projects from the transport oepartmeht. — projects from the transport department. i- projects from the transport department. 2 i e department. i can't refute the £20 billion. it's beyond my knowledge. i would have gone back to mr harper and said, well, where's it gone? because it doesn't appear to be any tangible benefit . and that's an tangible benefit. and that's an awful lot of to money spend without knowing and having accountability for where it's gone. because the people who use the and railways the roads and the railways really seeing the really aren't seeing the benefit. ethan, you're nodding your— benefit. ethan, you're nodding your heat— benefit. ethan, you're nodding your head there. _ e ethan, you're nodding your head there. well, i was rust— your head there. well, i was rust themes— your head there. well, i was just thinking, i— your head there. well, i was just thinking, i assume the 20 button— just thinking, i assume the 20 billion-include- just thinking, i assume the 20 billion include the 100 billion doesn't include the 100 ptus— billion doesn't include the 100 ptus httttoh— billion doesn't include the 100 plus billion .the_ billion doesn't include the 100 plus billion the vanity plus billion for the vanity prop-eet,— plus billion for the vanity proj'ectv-l- plus billion for the vanity project,-i mean,- plus billion for the vanity. project,-i mean, here plus billion for the vanity- project,-i mean, here in project, hs2. i mean, here in milton keynes, a direct milton keynes, we have a direct line london. don't how line to london. i don't know how the minutes that i the extra ten minutes that i would hs2 benefit would save on hs2 would benefit me. think that money is better

me. i think that money is better spent elsewhere on on other projects, reliability spent elsewhere on on other projtpunctuality reliability spent elsewhere on on other projtpunctuality of reliability spent elsewhere on on other projtpunctuality of the bility spent elsewhere on on other projtpunctuality of the line( spent elsewhere on on other projtpunctuality of the line we and punctuality of the line we currently have. i would rather rather see that improved. i've lost. i've lost track of the amount of i've tweeted amount of time i've tweeted avanti west coast mainline, amount of time i've tweeted avanti isast coast mainline, amount of time i've tweeted avanti is myzoast mainline, amount of time i've tweeted avanti is my train?viainline, amount of time i've tweeted avanti is my train? so nline, amount of time i've tweeted avanti is my train? so i'd e, amount of time i've tweeted avanti is my train? so i'd rather where is my train? so i'd rather see money used to improve see that money used to improve connections north and connections in the north and east yeah no, i think east to west. yeah no, i think east to west. yeah no, i think east west connections east to west connections really are more broadly , are lacking, but more broadly, sophie, concerned more sophie, you were concerned more about of business and local about sort of business and local communities that wasn't really touched on so much. no, i think my protest— touched on so much. no, i think my biggest concern— touched on so much. no, i think my biggest concern is- 22 tit" 2” no, i think my biggest concern is that vhttst— my biggest concern is that vhttst the— my biggest concern is that whilst the government is spehtmt— whilst the government is spehtmt a— whilst the government is spending a lot of money on large protests— spending a lot of money on large proteets that— spending a lot of money on large projects that are— spending a lot of money on large projects that are helping larger husthesses— projects that are helping larger husthesses .— projects that are helping larger businesses , and— projects that are helping larger businesses , and what about the businesses, and what about the hat— businesses, and what about the that or— businesses, and what about the kind of smaller— businesses, and what about the kind of smaller independent husthesses— kind of smaller independent businesses that— kind of smaller independent businesses that kind of prop up our community? _ businesses that kind of prop up our community? ””: businesses that kind of prop up our community? ””2 businesses that kind of prop up our community? ”2 ?”r:i our community? and what what are they going to do to kind of support them through this recovery from brexit recovery period from from brexit and now, one of the other and covid? now, one of the other big and covid? now, one of the other the ports— and covid? now, one of the other the pomts that— and covid? now, one of the other big points that was— 2 co 117” now, one of the other big points that was touched on, of course, was the— big points that was touched on, of course, was the coronation. mt— of course, was the coronation. tat-rts— of course, was the coronation. tat-tt-s hot- of course, was the coronation.| and-it's not-the and of course, it's not just the rotat— and of course, it's not just the local elections— and of course, it's not just the local elections going on local elections that's going on thts—are- local elections that's going on this—are there- this week. there are there are three— this week. there are there are three .events _ this week. there are there are three - events .the - this week. there are there are three events the week three big events in the week aheat.— three big events in the week aheat. rte-ve— three big events in the week ahead. we've got the we've got the heat— ahead. we've got the we've got the local elections— ahead. we've got the we've got the local elections then the local elections first, then the—ant-

the local elections first, then the—and then- the coronation and then eurovision.— the coronation and then eurovision. and i just wonder vhtoh— eurovision. and i just wonder vhtoh ot— eurovision. and i just wonder which of which— eurovision. and i just wonder which of which which most evottes— which of which which most states.— which of which which most exottesl r— which of which which most excites-, i guess- which of which which most excites , i guess the excites you, i guess the coronation _ excites you, i guess the coronation edge is it for me ? coronation edge is it for me? amhe— coronation edge is it for me? amte hecause— coronation edge is it for me? arnie because once- coronation edge is it for me? arnie because once in- coronation edge is it for me? arnie because once in a- coronation edge is it for me? arnie because once in a lifetime thing i probably won't be around for the next one. eurovision is probably more relevant for many people than the local elections. if the truth be known. and that's the sad indictment. and ethan, i'm very patriotic- and ethan, i'm very patriotic and i hetteve— ethan, i'm very patriotic and i hetteve th— ethan, i'm very patriotic and i believe in institutions . 2 believe in institutions. so i'd say— believe in institutions. so i'd say the— believe in institutions. so i'd say the coronation— believe in institutions. so i'd say the coronation and also from a business point of view, i think it's a good opportunity for communities to come together. and sophie, it's tttttcutt— together. and sophie, it's difficult for— together. and sophie, it's difficult for-to - together. and sophie, it's difficult for-to-ii together. and sophie, it's- difficult for-to-i think difficult for me to say. i think my age— difficult for me to say. i think my age group is probably less interested coronation, interested in the coronation, less engaged in local elections for sure. in terms of the long bank holiday weekend, i'm not going to say say no to that . so going to say say no to that. so yeah, yeah, no , interesting that yeah, yeah, no, interesting that no one said the local elections . perhaps that's not the perhaps that's not the biggest . perhaps that's not the biggest surprtse— . perhaps that's not the biggest surprtse .— . perhaps that's not the biggest surprtse . hut— . perhaps that's not the biggest surprise . but if— . perhaps that's not the biggest surprise . but if we— perhaps that's not the biggest surprise . but if we come to now surprise. but if we come to now what— surprise. but if we come to now what ttm— surprise. but if we come to now what tim lawton— surprise. but if we come to now what tim lawton was saying, hecause— what tim lawton was saying, hecause ot— what tim lawton was saying, because of course this illegal mttrattoh— because of course this illegal migration bill— because of course this illegal migration bill is— because of course this illegal migration bill is going through parhameht— migration bill is going through parliament right— migration bill is going through parliament right now. it's a big,— parliament right now. it's a the, pre— parliament right now. it's a the, pro ttt.— parliament right now. it's a big, big bill. and tim lawton

tatttht— big, big bill. and tim lawton was talking about protections for was talking about protections tor chttt— was talking about protections for child refugees. now neil, vou— for child refugees. now neil, you sort— for child refugees. now neil, you sort or— for child refugees. now neil, you sort of were— for child refugees. now neil, you sort of were looking thtehtty— you sort of were looking mtehtty at— you sort of were looking intently at that at that point . intently at that at that point. yeah.— intently at that at that point. veah. r— intently at that at that point. veah. r thmh— intently at that at that point. yeah, i think most— intently at that at that point. yeah, i think most right- intently at that at that point. yeah, i think most right minded people look at the issue of legality versus illegality without necessarily knowing what the definition is. but it's important. whatever they do that the right people are protected and welcomed and sheltered and frankly, that the wrong people aren't allowed in. at the moment. we seem to be letting everybody in and taking an inordinate amount of time to work whether they're the work out whether they're the right or the wrong people. that one to the civil service one points to the civil service for needs to for me and somebody needs to take position on that. that's take a position on that. that's probably minister, probably the cabinet minister, i think, who runs that department. yeah. ethan, did you do you agree— yeah. ethan, did you do you agree-thate— yeah. ethan, did you do you agree that? yeah i do. agree with that? yeah i do. i thmh— agree with that? yeah i do. i thmt ve— agree with that? yeah i do. i think we have— agree with that? yeah i do. i think we have an— agree with that? yeah i do. i think we have an asylum system thatis think we have an asylum system that is incredibly overwhelmed and abused , which means that and abused, which means that those need help and those that need help and protection are not able to receive that because the system doesn't have the resources and money to allocate to those that genuinely need it. i personally think, though, the bigger issue

is, legal is, is the level of legal migration. think we're so migration. i think we're so focussed on the boats coming across and those numbers, but the problem is at the moment is that year to june 2022, that in the year to june 2022, we had 504,000 new people come to the country . see, now that's to the country. see, now that's not necessarily a problem when you think about, you know, jobs and things like that. but the impact it has on like gp appointment and school places and houses , it's really and houses, it's really difficult to integrate that many people so quickly . yeah. and people so quickly. yeah. and sophie, people so quickly. yeah. and sophte, to— people so quickly. yeah. and sophre, to you— people so quickly. yeah. and sophie, do you think- 2 2 yeah. and sophie, do you think this 2 2.

well, thank you so much for all of your thoughts on those interviews. i really appreciate your— interviews. i really appreciate your vtevvs— interviews. i really appreciate your views here _ interviews. i really appreciate your views here in— i really appreciate your views here in milton keynes and your views here in milton keynes aht tact— your views here in milton keynes aht pact to— your views here in milton keynes aht pact to you— your views here in milton keynes and back to you, camilla, great job and back to you, camilla, great toh th— and back to you, camilla, great tot he tttttoh— and back to you, camilla, great job in milton keynes. tom, thank you so— job in milton keynes. tom, thank you so much. don't forget, you can apply to the people's panel by going to gb news .uk forward slash panel. now don't go anywhere, because in just a moment, anthony seldon join moment, anthony seldon will join me interview. me for an exclusive interview. he'll talking me through he'll be talking me through bods he'll be talking me through boris johnson's explosive time at number 10 ahead of the release of his new

of a capital. city. and it's going to go on and we're not finally . free because there are finally. free because there are still people . with british still people. with british citizenship . obligations in citizenship. obligations in there. i was going .

c”�*r:i;”r:i i was going. to ask you there. i was going. to ask you about— there. i was going. to ask you about put,— there. i was going. to ask you about that, robert,— c”�*r:i;”r:i i was going. to ask you about that, robert, because our uhterstahttht— about that, robert, because our understanding .— about that, robert, because our understanding . is— understanding. is. 1800, just over. 1800 people, british hattohats— over. 1800 people, british hattohats .— nationals. and their dependents have— nationals. and their dependents have heeh— nationals. and their dependents have been taken— nationals. and their dependents have been taken out. but.

nationals. and their dependents have been taken out. but . there have been taken out. but. there is have been taken out. but. there ts ah— have been taken out. but. there is an understanding there are stru— is an understanding there are still thousands— is an understanding there are still thousands .— still thousands. of british hattohats— still thousands. of british hattohats .— nationals. in sudan. is. it hecause— nationals. in sudan. is. it because that— nationals. in sudan. is. it because that window was so ttmttet— because that window was so ttmttet .— because that window was so ttmttet . or— limited. or have those people tecttet— limited. or have those people

tecttet .— decided. for whatever reason to stay— decided. for whatever reason to stay they— decided. for whatever reason to stay they couldn't— decided. for whatever reason to stay they couldn't . stay they couldn't. get them out . rust— stay they couldn't. get them out . just thmt— stay they couldn't. get them out .tust mm or— stay they couldn't. get them out . just think of afghanistan. and hahut— . just think of afghanistan. and hahut where— . just think of afghanistan. and kabul, where at— . just think of afghanistan. and kabul, where at least there were . hatrots— kabul, where at least there were . patrols because— kabul, where at least there were . patrols because the taliban hat— . patrols because the taliban hat .—

had. already taken over and they court— had. already taken over and they coutt to— had. already taken over and they coutt to art— had. already taken over and they could go and extract . could go and extract. out people as tt-s— could go and extract. out people as re stru— could go and extract. out people as it's still they— could go and extract. out people as it's still they .— could go and extract. out people as it's still they . left lots of as it's still they. left lots of peopte— as it's still they. left lots of people behind _ as it's still they. left lots of people behind .— as it's still they. left lots of people behind . - as it's still they. left lots of people behind . 2rir people behind. i think we've got to be much clearer about obligate . options to people obligate. options to people. and people that you really want to help. i mean, the thing is that so lately .

so lately. did they decide that people who are working . working people who are working. working in the nhs . here after all, were in the nhs. here after all, were eligible to come . on, on, on, on eligible to come. on, on, on, on . british on on british flights . and on other flights. it's not the time as i say, to fight domestic . politics you're domestic. politics you're listening to— domestic. politics you're listening to gb- 2 2 c 25 you're listening to gb news radio . listening to gb news radio. ivvetcome— listening to gb news radio. iwelcome back— listening to gb news radio. l welcome back to -

listening to gb news radio.- - welcome back to the camilla listening to gb news radio.- - welcome thow) the camilla listening to gb news radio.- - welcome brnow i'm; camilla listening to gb news radio. welcome brnow i'm delighted tominey show. now i'm delighted to anthony to be joined by sir anthony seldon. he's the co—author of a new book, ten, which new book, johnson at ten, which is thursday. it's is out on thursday. it's absolutely it's also absolutely brilliant. it's also head epsom college. you've head of epsom college. you've written a lot biographies, written a lot of biographies, but my goodness, this is a barnstorm. sure. and suppose barnstorm. sure. and i suppose the ask you the first question to ask you is, all this is, having done all of this research all of research and spoken to all of these people were very close these people who were very close to johnson administration, to the johnson administration, was be prime was boris ever fit to be prime minister the first place? minister in the first place? what's sir? what's your conclusion, sir? anthony i mean, anthony no, i mean, i can etahorate— anthony no, i mean, i can elaborate-that.- anthony no, i mean, i can elaborate that. he he was elaborate on that. he he was a pretty— elaborate on that. he he was a pretty toot— elaborate on that. he he was a pretty toot mayor— elaborate on that. he he was a pretty good mayor of london hecause— because cause he could do things that— because cause he could do things that-totht. — because cause he could do things that-totht. he- because cause he could do things that doing. he loved that he loved doing. he loved opehtht— that he loved doing. he loved opening buildings, starting opening buildings, love starting protects— opening buildings, love starting protectsaht— opening buildings, love starting project:and.the_ opening buildings, love starting projectsand the other people and all the time other peopte— people and all the time other peoptelthe— people and all the time other people the background people in the background were totht—tovetl people in the background were. doing—loved the doing all the work. he loved the orymptcs.— doing all the work. he loved thei orymprcs.—satt, olympics. the olympics, he said, vas-tumet— olympics. the olympics, he said, was-tumet to— olympics. the olympics, he said, was turned to somebody was the he turned to somebody to his was the he turned to somebody to hts—rhts— was the he turned to somebody to hts—rhts ts— was the he turned to somebody to his—this is the- his left and said, this is the test—the.- his left and said, this is the test—the. rl his left and said, this is the. best—life. i don't best moment of my life. i don't thht— best moment of my life. i don't thht-vttt— best moment of my life. i don't think-will ever— best moment of my life. i don't think will ever better. think life will ever get better. i think life will ever get better. r-ththt— think life will ever get better. r-ththt tt— think life will ever get better. i-think it ever- think life will ever get better. i think it ever did get i don't think it ever did get hotter— i don't think it ever did get better—being. i don't think it ever did get- better_being mayor better for him than being mayor of better for him than being mayor or tohtoh— better for him than being mayor of london -the _ better for him than being mayor of london the olympics, better for him than being mayor of lthe on the olympics, better for him than being mayor of lthe on couldn'tt olympics, better for him than being mayor of lthe on couldn't cope. ipics, and he just couldn't cope. he srmpty— and he just couldn't cope. he. stmpty—to and he just couldn't cope. he- stmpty—to he simply was not good enough to be hrtme— simply was not good enough to be ttme—he— simply was not good enough to be prime—he didn't- prime minister and he didn't appotht— prime minister and he didn't appoint-around- prime minister and he didn't appoint around him who appoint people around him who were good enough. and he he sachet— were good enough. and he he- sachet—who were good enough. and he he- sacte how—who were good enough. and he he- sacke how-it.-who were good enough. and he he- sacke how-it. it's-who were good enough. and he he sacke how it. it's really ho knew how to do it. it's a really tttttcutt— knew how to do it. it's a really difficult-being— knew how to do it. it's a really difficult being prime difficult job being prime ttthtster— difficult job being prime minister you minister nothing prepares you for minister nothing prepares you tor—shovi for the job. you have to show humtttty— for the job. you have to show humility. arnie— for the job. you have to show humility. arnie-to. for the job. you have to show- humility. arnie-to know for the job. you have to show- humi you arnie-to know for the job. you have to show humi you arnie to to know for the job. you have to show humi you arnie to you iow for the job. you have to show humi you arnie to you have what you want to do and you have to mov— what you want to do and you have to mow-to— what you want to do and you have to mow-to rt.— what you want to do and you have

to know-do it. you- what you want to do and you have to know do it. you have what you want to do and you have to be m do it. you have what you want to do and you have to be both do it. you have what you want to do and you have to be both a do it. you have what you want to do and you have to be both a storyteller)u have what you want to do and you have to be both a storyteller)u haaz to be both a storyteller with a story— to be both a storyteller with a story-vhtch— to be both a storyteller with a story -which .neverl story to tell which he never hat.— story to tell which he never hat. arter— story to tell which he never had. after-was- story to tell which he never had. after was done. and had. after brexit was done. and you—a— had. after brexit was done. and you—a heater.- you have to be a healer. the test— you have to be a healer. the best prime ministers are both of them,— best prime ministers are both ofi them—ether. them, and he couldn't do either. but them, and he couldn't do either. hut-ot— them, and he couldn't do either. but-of-revelationsl but did some of the revelations in but did some of the revelations th—youl in the book surprise even you thtse — in the book surprise even you this? -goodness,- in the book surprise even you- this? -goodness,-went this? oh my goodness, yes. went around calling himself the fuhrer his fuhrer that he was some of his ranting was quite expletive fidden ranting was quite expletive ridden few references ridden as quite a few references to book. to the c—word in the book. i mean, you? mean, did that surprise you? because you had been because presumably you had been familiar wrote book and before you wrote the book and had stories him had heard stories about him and i yes, had heard stories about him and i mean, yes, had heard stories about him and i mean, he yes, had heard stories about him and i mean, he is, yes, had heard stories about him and i mean, he is, i yes, had heard stories about him and i mean, he is, i think, yes, had heard stories about him and i mean, he is, i think, at yes, i mean, he is, i think, at pean— i mean, he is, i think, at peat, hut— i mean, he is, i think, at heart, but a— i mean, he is, i think, at heart, but a kind person. he wants— wants the best out. but his vahtty— wants the best out. but his vanity that vanity is making him think that he—ttthtster- vanity is making him think thatj he_minister was he could be prime minister was rust—ttth-tl he could be prime minister was tust|the—ttth-t| he could be prime minister was just the skills didn't he could be prime minister was just the skills primei't have the skills to be prime ttthtster— have the skills to be primei minister—country have the skills to be prime- minister_country out minister he got the country out of europe without him jumping on the vote leave side. then it court— the vote leave side. then it| could _would the vote leave side. then it- could _would have could have been and would have heeh— been a different outcome. boris johnson— johnson with dominic cummings, ttppet— tipped that delicate balance tectstvety— tipped that delicate balance decisivelngreat _ tipped that delicate balance decisively great historic so that's a great historic achievement. _ achievement. it's changed the course of this country. but he that— didn't know what to do with it them—htm - then. i mean, neither him nor mterestmtty— interestingly, dominic cummings reatty— interestingly, dominic cummings reattyivthtates— interestingly, dominic cummings really vintages brexit. advice vintages of brexit. many hrevtteers— advice vintages of brexit. many hrevyous— advice vintages of brexit. many brexyou needed— advice vintages of brexit. many brexyou needed straight and you needed to be straight on top-arso— and you needed to be straight on top-atso you— and you needed to be straight on top-also you didn't- top of it. but also you didn't mov— top of it. but also you didn't thou-to— top of it. but also you didn't thou-to to— top of it. but also you didn't know to do elsewhere. know what to do elsewhere. i- mean—inc know what to do elsewhere. i- hot—who know what to do elsewhere. i- mean, not -to _who know what to do elsewhere. i mean, not to levellingio know what to do elsewhere. i meabutot to levellingio know what to do elsewhere. i meabutot didn't levellingio know what to do elsewhere. i meabutot didn't lehow ngio know what to do elsewhere. i meabutot didn't lehowng do know what to do elsewhere. i moniutot didn't lehowng do know what to do elsewhere. i mon brexit. dn't lehow ng do know what to do elsewhere. i mon brexit. dn't lng do know what to do elsewhere. i mon brexit. dn't “?trzio it on brexit. many people have referenced it on brexit. many people have referethese two opposing essays write these two opposing essays one one one supporting remain, one supporting one supporting remain, one su;ideological you an ideological brexiteer do you think he is not least with his work for the telegraph in brussels in mind and the fact that he very much sees himself not i'd that he very much sees himself not an i'd that he very much sees himself not an internationalist i'd that he very much sees himself not an internationalist at, i'd say an internationalist at, i think, test. camilla say an internationalist at, i thintrue test. camilla say an internationalist at, i thintrue brexiteers,zamilla say an internationalist at, i thintrue brexiteers,zam members say an internationalist at, i thitheie brexiteers,zam members

say an internationalist at, i thitheie br and ers,zam members say an internationalist at, i thitheie br and ers,za strongibers of the erg and other strong pro—treat— of the erg and other strong pro—brexi'him _ of the erg and other strong pro—brexi'him have never recognise him and have never recothtset— recognise him and have never recothrsatvays— recognise him and have never recognistalways to own. he always seemed to be ttaty—hrevtt. l own. he always seemed to be. flaky—brexit. why? own. he always seemed to be. flaky i he - brexit. why? own. he always seemed to be flaky he flaky. �*exit. why? own. he always seemed to be flaky he flaky. �*exifcould ? because he was flaky. he could have—hei have jumped either way. so he rttht— have jumped either way. so he rttht to— have jumped either way. so he was right to .very- was right to the very last mthute— was right to the very last minute undecided whether he was going— going to join remain now prime ttthtster— going to join remain now prime minister-osborne- chancellor george osborne knew and they were completely right that— that the way that boris jumped voutt— would decide the outcome of the reerethtum— would decide the outcome of the reterehtuthe— would decide the outcome of the referenduthe brexit why? leave for the brexit side. why? hecause— leave for the brexit side. why? hea use— leave for the brexit side. why? be a use .chance _ leave for the brexit side. why? beta use chance him be a better chance for him of ascehttht— be a better chance for him of ascethtt— be a better chance for him of ascethttlvas— be a better chance for him of asceandg was that top. and he was right in that it ttt. — did. he thought it would prohahty— probably lose. so when the referendum— probably lose. so when the referer early _ probably lose. so when the refererearly-you- probably lose. so when the refererearly you remember probably lose. so when the referwell’ly you remember probably lose. so when the referwell’ly june remember very well of 24th june 2016, he vasihe — very well of 24th june 2016, he was|he-wandering- very well of 24th june 2016, hei was|he-wandering-in and he was wandering around in a hrasttta— and he was wandering around in a hrasttt short— and he was wandering around in a brasili short trousers his baggy short trousers around his home— baggy short trousers around his home now,-now?- baggy short trousers around his home now, now? don't baggy short trousers around his home what now? don't baggy short trousers around his home what do. ow? don't baggy short trousers around his home what do. ow? d have know what to do. we don't have a pram— plan. and he didn't have a plan hecause— because he didn't have a plan hecause— because he didn't think it would happen. — because he didn't think it would happen. camttta— because he didn't think it would happen. camilla, could tragedy, camilla, is he could have— have been the healing prime ttthtster— minister that would have taken hrttath— minister that would have taken britainibritain_ minister that would have taken britain britain totally leading britain into a totally new position out of europe, out of new position out of europe, out ot—tori new position out of europe, out otiyears. —tor| new position out of europe, out ofiyears. .had-forl new position out of europe, out of years. had visionfor 50 years. he had the vision of htstory— history. we saw it on ukraine, where— where he gave superb leadership shtp— ship, but he couldn't. and he's such— such a gifted orator and communicator. i mean, what prime hamster,— communicator. i mean, what prime minister,.starmer_ hearing keir starmer doesn't have— hearing keir starmer doesn't- have—three have charisma. none of the three heaters— have charisma. none of the three heaters-tort- have charisma. none of the threei leaders-don't-10% have charisma. none of the threei leathe s-don't-10% have charisma. none of the three leathe johnsonian don't 10% have charisma. none of the three leathe johnsonian don't but% of the johnsonian charisma, but they— of the johnsonian charisma, but thetvort. — of the johnsonian charisma, but theyvort. rhe— of the johnsonian charisma, but theywork. ”2 the work. the interesting revelation the work. the interesting reve and n the work. the interesting reve and particularly day the work. the interesting reve c'the particularly day the work. the interesting revec'the referendum. daywas after the referendum. and i was there, and both conference and both boris johnson and michael gove looked like rabbits in headlights. they didn't know what hit them. but what is you interesting is that you attribute michael gove's betrayal to part of the reason for boris johnson's downfall, because you argue that had he run in 2016, he'd have been able to table. run in 2016, he'd have been able to wouldn't table. run in 2016, he'd have been able to wouldn't been table. the he wouldn't have been handed the hospital the pandemic that was the pandemic and he might have done better. but you also reveal that when he was betrayed by gove, it was one of

the only times anyone had seen him cry. yeah, it absolutely. i mean, it was shattering for both of them, only for great potrttcat— political beasts dominated the zoo— 2010 decade. cameron osborne and johnson— 2010 decade. cameron osborne and tohhstctose— 2010 decade. cameron osborne and tohhstctose-th— 2010 decade. cameron osborne and johnslclose-in-party.. came close to them in any party. rarate— farage as a populist outsider outstte— farage as a populist outsider outstte as— farage as a populist outsider outside was decided decade was decided by the mterptay— interplay between them. boris johnson— interplay between them. boris romp-ust— interplay between them. boris johnjust devastated could interplay between them. boris johnijorgive stated could interplay between them. boris johnijorgive michael could never forgive michael gove and that— that was another tragedy because tttchaet— that was another tragedy because tttc attest— that was another tragedy because mic ablest.all_ that was another tragedy because mic ablest all cabinet the ablest of all his cabinet mthtsters. — the ablest of all his cabinet mr oeputy— the ablest of all his cabinet mi deputy minister doing the ablest of all his cabinet mi dtofity minister doing the ablest of all his cabinet mi dtof willie minister doing the ablest of all his cabinet mi dtof willie ministejob)ing kind of willie whitelaw job that oeputy— deputy prime minister for matches— deputy prime minister for rhchrtsr,— deputy prime minister for th chrisr, heseltine for deputy prime minister for th chmajor. heseltine for deputy prime minister for th chmajor. ineed ine for john major. you need to have a catty— really arnie capable deputy hrtme— prime minister and trust them. if he'd done that with gove, it court— if he'd done that with gove, it. could _different if he'd done that with gove, it could premiership different if he'd done that with gove, it could premiership because rent if he'd done that with gove, it could with miership because rent if he'd done that with gove, it could with mie incredible use rent if he'd done that with gove, it could with mieincredible oil rent gove, with his incredible oil thtustry— gove, with his incredible oil industryiboris_ gove, with his incredible oil industry boris johnson and then boris johnson with a big picture, the macro stuff court— could have been we'll never thou.— know. so a real killer combination.- know. so a real killer comldiscussed know. so a real killer- comldiscussed _johnson isn't discussed about johnson hecause— because he is actually very prtvate— private about his very public privbreakdown_ private about his very public priv breakdown marriage the breakdown of his marriage to martha— the breakdown of his marriage to martha-vtth— the breakdown of his marriage to marina with carrie. relationship with carrie. is it accurate to describe carrie as the and accurate to describe carrie as the bad and accurate to describe carrie as the bad influence and accurate to describe carrie as the bad influence an of the bad influence over some of his thinking? i mean, obviously, she attracted some terrible nicknames when she was in number 10, stuff. what's of this stuff. what's the truth of the relationship with marina and its effect on how things went wrong and indeed the relationship with carrie? well, somebody relationship with carrie? well, somcompare great can compare him to the great cohservattve— conservative chancellor r a para,— conservative chancellor r a hutttare— conservative chancellor r a hutttare-to- conservative chancellor r a butltare to them who are going to put them in thetr— their place and not tell them what— what they want to hear. and rab pupa, — butler, who was the greatest rory— tory prime minister we never had in the post—war period, his wife thet— in the post—war period, his wifei died._december in the post—war period, his wifei died..was-december in the post—war period, his wife died. was totally december in the post—war period, his wife died. was totally differentr in the post—war period, his wife died.since,is totally differentr in the post—war period, his wife died.since,is totthe differentr in the post—war period, his wife died.since,is totthe differtway man since, and in the same way torts— boris johnson. for all carriers strengths— boris johnson. for all carriers strehvery — boris johnson. for all carriers strentvery strong— boris johnson. for all carriers strentvery strong woman boris johnson. for all carriers strerwoulditrong woman boris johnson. for all carriers strerwoulditrontolerate woman who would not tolerate any nonsense at all. marina, by the way,— way, was significant in tipping hrm— him towards brexit. so i think that— that was a loss for a man who for whom self discipline is otter— often a stranger. yes. and how about the relationship between bods boris johnson and rishi sunak then? of johnson,

champion of boris johnson, rishi sunak he decided to nail his colours sunak he decided to nail his col0lwhen was running, back when he was running, but of course that relationship disintegrated course that relationship disintegratmuch bearing did course that relationship disirhavetmuch bearing did course that relationship disirhavetmjohnson'searing did course that relationship disirilot. andyhnson'searing did course that relationship disirilot. andyhntprimearing did course that relationship disirilot. andyhntprime minister course that relationship dismodern andyhntprime minister course that relationship di: modern and yhnt prin lost inister in modern history has lost a tahtsttte— landslide victory, which boris johnson— johnson won in december 2019. everyone,— johnson won in december 2019. tvvas helah— johnson won in december 2019. vaas he, an majority. it was about an 80 majority. i mean, that's going to get you by you-even— mean, that's going to get you by you-even-we've- mean, that's going to get you by you even we've been mean, that's going to get you by you from we've been mean, that's going to get you by you from curtice 3een mean, that's going to get you by you from curtice about mean, that's going to get you by you from justzurtice about mean, that's going to get you by you from just earlierabout how hard it is. just earlier in your— your program to undo that kind of majority. and yet amazingly, amazmtry— of majority. and yet amazingly, hot,— of majority. and yet amazingly, amazi not,.least_ of majority. and yet amazingly, amazi not, least because it all, not the least because of his chancellor losing total pattehce,— patience, faith, credibility in hrm— him. now, what's interesting is that— that boris johnson with dominic cummthts— cummings knocked out the earlier chahcettor— chancellor sajid javid, who was opposrtt— chancellor sajid javid, who was opposmt—thetrl chancellor sajid javid, who was. opposing—their own opposing them, having their own tteas— opposing them, having their own tteas otter— opposing them, having their own ideas, often lvery_ opposing them, having their own ideas, often very tricky ideas, often a very tricky relationship— ideas, often a very tricky relationship ,_ ideas, often a very tricky relationship , chancellor and relationship, chancellor and hrtme— relationship, chancellor and ttme—hot- relationship, chancellor andj prime—not that prime minister, but not that tho.— prime minister, but not that trtcty-tot— prime minister, but not that trtcty-tot ht- prime minister, but not that tricky.-got rid of- prime minister, but not that tricky. got rid of him and tricky. they got rid of him and oomthtc— tricky. they got rid of him and dominic cummings thought in ttsht— dominic cummings thought in ttsht suhat— dominic cummings thought in rishi sunak there be rishi sunak there would be somehoty— rishi sunak there would be somebody would rishi sunak there would be somebody-would more somebody who would be much more htttahte— somebody who would be much more htttahte .— somebody who would be much more htttahte , who— somebody who would be much more biddable , who would do the kind biddable, who would do the kind of biddable, who would do the kindi ot—cummthts of things that dominic cummings ,_p..tpuuny_ , he didn't particularly care what— , he didn't particularly care| what—thought , he didn't particularly care- what_thought ever, what boris johnson thought ever, but what boris johnson thought ever, put he— what boris johnson thought ever, put he he— what boris johnson thought ever, but he he thought, this is my . tht— but he he thought, this is my . that very— but he he thought, this is my man . and very quickly , rishi man. and very quickly, rishi suhat— man. and very quickly, rishi sunak thought,— man. and very quickly, rishi sunak thought, no, thank you very— sunak thought, no, thank you very much.— sunak thought, no, thank you very much. rm— sunak thought, no, thank you very much. i'm not going to do that— very much. i'm not going to do that vtthth— very much. i'm not going to do that within 2— very much. i'm not going to do that within 2 or— very much. i'm not going to do that within 2 or 3— very much. i'm not going to do that within 2 or 3 months. he hts— that within 2 or 3 months. he hts ovm— that within 2 or 3 months. he was his own person. he'd taken tram— was his own person. he'd taken ttam hucha— was his own person. he'd taken liam bucha smith— was his own person. he'd taken liam bucha smith across from humher— liam bucha smith across from humher ro— liam bucha smith across from number 10 into— liam bucha smith across from number 10 into the treasury. now:— number 10 into the treasury. nov, at— number 10 into the treasury. nov, at the— number 10 into the treasury. now, at the heart of his downing street— now, at the heart of his downing street .— now, at the heart of his downing street . tht— now, at the heart of his downing street . and they— now, at the heart of his downing street . and they had very street. and they had very

ttttereht— street. and they had very different ideas- street. and they had very different ideas and bit by bit by ttt— different ideas and bit by bit by htt he— different ideas and bit by bit by tot he as— different ideas and bit by bit by bit he was manoeuvring to see torts— by bit he was manoeuvring to see horts tohhsoh— by bit he was manoeuvring to see boris johnson out— by bit he was manoeuvring to see boris johnson out and at the whore. — boris johnson out and at the whore. hut— boris johnson out and at the whole. but it— boris johnson out and at the whole. but it was many, many tactors— whole. but it was many, many factors rt— whole. but it was many, many factors. it was— whole. but it was many, many factors. it was the— whole. but it was many, many factors. it was the collapse of utttmatety— factors. it was the collapse of utttmatety tt— factors. it was the collapse of ultimately it didn't help him, but ultimately— ultimately it didn't help him, but ultimately it was the cottapse— but ultimately it was the cottapse ot— but ultimately it was the collapse of confidence amongst the ministers,— collapse of confidence amongst the ministers, the— collapse of confidence amongst the ministers, the junior mthtsters— the ministers, the junior ministers and- the ministers, the junior ministers and the mp. ” 2 2.

you'll know how well he did, looking after— you'll know how well he did, looking after prince william. he did looking after prince william. he ttt-vett— looking after prince william. he did .well looking- looking after prince william. he did well looking after did very well looking after oavtt— did very well looking after david cameron— did very well looking after david cameron . he's got david cameron. he's got consummate— david cameron. he's got consummate skills . but the skill consummate skills. but the skill for consummate skills. but the skill tor such— consummate skills. but the skill tor such a— consummate skills. but the skill tor such a young— consummate skills. but the skill for such a young and experienced ttture— for such a young and experienced trture looking— for such a young and experienced figure looking after the whole ctvtt— figure looking after the whole civil service,— figure looking after the whole civil service, all— figure looking after the whole civil service, all those permaheht— civil service, all those permanent secretaries who are much— permanent secretaries who are much otter— permanent secretaries who are much older and— permanent secretaries who are much older and more experienced thah— much older and more experienced thah htm — much older and more experienced thah htm at— much older and more experienced than him at such— much older and more experienced than him at such a— much older and more experienced than him at such a critical tuhcture— than him at such a critical tuhcture th— than him at such a critical juncture in this— than him at such a critical juncture in this country , i juncture in this country, i that— juncture in this country, i that has— juncture in this country, i think has taken the civil servtce— think has taken the civil service-the- think has taken the civil service the quality of service and the quality of cehtrat—tol service and the quality of central—to anj service and the quality of. central—to an all central government to an all ttme— central government to an all ttme-a— central government to an all ttme-a very— central government to an all time-a very final,- central government to an all time a very final, very time low, a very final, very tutct— time low, a very final, very turct vort. — time low, a very final, very quick word. /r:ir. ”�* quick word. you've taken over epsom college following the tragic death of emma pattison , tragic death of emma pattison, the head there, and her daughter very briefly, sir anthony, how's the community there coping? so well? it's a wonderful school aht— well? it's a wonderful school aht thaht— well? it's a wonderful school and thank you— well? it's a wonderful school and thank you for asking. it's a vohtertut— and thank you for asking. it's a wonderful college— and thank you for asking. it's a wonderful college and everyone is wonderful college and everyone ts uhtttht— wonderful college and everyone is uniting behind— wonderful college and everyone is uniting behind doing the very for is uniting behind doing the very tor test— is uniting behind doing the very tor test the— is uniting behind doing the very for best the school and for the young— for best the school and for the young pebble— for best the school and for the young pebble in_ for best the school and for the young people in it. so it's i've heeh— young people in it. so it's i've been extraordinarily touched by the reactor— been extraordinarily touched by the reaction of— been extraordinarily touched by the reaction of everybody in the whore— the reaction of everybody in the whole community— the reaction of everybody in the whole community and the whole teachtht— whole community and the whole teaching profession , state and

teaching profession, state and mtepehteht— teaching profession, state and mtepehteht .— teaching profession, state and independent , just rallying independent, just rallying hehtht— independent, just rallying hehtht .— independent, just rallying behind. it's— independent, just rallying behind . it's a— independent, just rallying behind . it's a great profession. behind. it's a great profession. ves— behind. it's a great profession. ves teacher— behind. it's a great profession. yes teacher everyone listening hecome— yes teacher everyone listening hecome a— yes teacher everyone listening become a teacher. _ yes teacher everyone listening become a teacher. it's the best that— become a teacher. it's the best these you— become a teacher. it's the best these you cah— become a teacher. it's the best thing you can do.— become a teacher. it's the best thing you can do. that's a tovety— thing you can do. that's a rovety hote— thing you can do. that's a lovely note on— thing you can do. that's a lovely note on which to end. rhaht— lovely note on which to end. thank you— lovely note on which to end. thank you very— lovely note on which to end. thank you very-it's- thank you very much. it's a great book. do get it. johnson at ten, everyone. read at ten, everyone. you must read it because it's an absolute page turner now. michael portillo former defence secretary and of course, fellow gb news course, my gb fellow gb news presenter, to be here presenter, is going to be here from 11. michael now in your experience, how much do these political books tend to get right ? well, in the case of right? well, in the case of anthony— right? well, in the case of anthony seldon,- ” 2”7 well, in the case of anthony seldon, they do tend to get anthony seldon, they do tend to tetlrttht— anthony seldon, they do tend to tetlrttht .— anthony seldon, they do tend to tetlrrtht. he-s— anthony seldon, they do tend to get right . he's written so get it right. he's written so many—primel get it right. he's written so- many_prime ministers many books about prime ministers i've many books about prime ministers r-ve ehr-oyet— many books about prime ministers r-ve ehtoyet them— many books about prime ministers i've enjoyed them enormously. r-ve— i've enjoyed them enormously. r-ve teamt— i've enjoyed them enormously. r-ve teamt a— i've enjoyed them enormously. i've learnt a great— i've enjoyed them enormously. i've learnt a great deal from them— i've learnt a great deal from them aht— i've learnt a great deal from them art as— i've learnt a great deal from them and as he's- i've learnt a great deal from them and as he'sjust i've learnt a great deal from them and as he's just revealed i've learnt a great deal from ththis and as he's just revealed i've learnt a great deal from ththis and answerjust revealed i've learnt a great deal from ththis and answer tot revealed i've learnt a great deal from ththis and answer to you,?aled i've learnt a great deal from ththis and answer to you, head i've learnt a great deal from ththis and answer to you, he is in his last answer to you, he is arso— in his last answer to you, he is also-educator- in his last answer to you, he is also-educator .- in his last answer to you, he is also-educator. i- in his last answer to you, he is also educator. i was also a great educator. i was struct— also a great educator. i was struck hy— also a great educator. i was struck by some— also a great educator. i was struck by some of the things that— struck by some of the things that ththohy— struck by some of the things that anthony seldon said very , that anthony seldon said very, very— that anthony seldon said very, very ctearty. — that anthony seldon said very, very clearly, that— that anthony seldon said very, very clearly, that was very clearly, that rishi was vorttht— very clearly, that rishi was vorttht to— very clearly, that rishi was working to get— very clearly, that rishi was working to get rid of boris and that— working to get rid of boris and that stmoh— working to get rid of boris and that simon case— working to get rid of boris and that simon case has taken the ctvtt— that simon case has taken the ctvtt servtce— that simon case has taken the civil service to— that simon case has taken the civil service to an— that simon case has taken the civil service to an all time too.— civil service to an all time how. those— civil service to an all time low. those are— civil service to an all time low. those are pretty hard httttht— low. those are pretty hard hitting statements from a man who— hitting statements from a man who thous— hitting statements from a man who knows what— hitting statements from a man who knows what he's talking about— who knows what he's talking

about .— who knows what he's talking about . absolutely michael. \rrirtr” about. absolutely michael. now, tell about. absolutely michael. now, tett us— about. absolutely michael. now, on us who— about. absolutely michael. now, tell us who you've— about. absolutely michael. now, tell us who you've got- about. absolutely michael. now, tell us who you've got coming on on the show today. well, we're going on the show today. well, we're totht—vhetheri going to be discussing whether the hoc— going to be discussing whether the too .— going to be discussing whether the bbc , under— going to be discussing whether the bbc , under its new chairman, the bbc, under its new chairman, shoutt— the bbc, under its new chairman, shoutt he— the bbc, under its new chairman, should be looking— the bbc, under its new chairman, should be looking at something other— should be looking at something other than— should be looking at something other than .licence- should be looking at something other than licence fee , other than the licence fee, whether— other than the licence fee, whether the _ other than the licence fee, whether the arts should be tuhtet— whether the arts should be tuhtet hy— whether the arts should be funded by the _ whether the arts should be funded by the state that's tottovtht— funded by the state that's following sir— funded by the state that's following sir simon rattle's speech— following sir simon rattle's speech .— following sir simon rattle's speech , which— following sir simon rattle's speech , which we're going to be speech, which we're going to be toothe— speech, which we're going to be toottht at— speech, which we're going to be looking at what— speech, which we're going to be looking at what happened at the rmtverstty— looking at what happened at the uhtverstty ot— looking at what happened at the university of cambridge's fitzwilliam _ university of cambridge's fitzwilliam museum , where as fitzwilliam museum, where as stahtey— fitzwilliam museum, where as stanley spencer— fitzwilliam museum, where as stanley spencer painting was ratep— stanley spencer painting was taken tovh— stanley spencer painting was taken down because it was thought— taken down because it was thought after— taken down because it was thought after many years to be racy— thought after many years to be racy ttst. — thought after many years to be racy trst. tht— thought after many years to be racy list. and i— thought after many years to be racy list. and i will be racing arout— racy list. and i will be racing arout th— racy list. and i will be racing around in land— racy list. and i will be racing around in land rovers because the vehtcte— around in land rovers because the vehicle is— around in land rovers because the vehicle is 75— around in land rovers because the vehicle is 75 years old, very— the vehicle is 75 years old, very much— the vehicle is 75 years old, very much looking forward to seetht— very much looking forward to secret you— very much looking forward to secret you to— very much looking forward to seeing you do that . ”2 c seeing you do that. kind of like a take on top gear, perhaps . a take on top gear, perhaps. now, don't go anywhere, because we've got a tasty generation gap coming up on, of what coming up on, of course, what else but the monarchy. see you very

work out how britain moves forward from this. join us here on gb news. the people's channel. britain is watching .

channel. britain is watching. welcome back to the camilla tominey show. now it's time for the teherattoh— tominey show. now it's time for the generation gap.— it; now it's time for the generation gap. that part of the generation gap. that part of the show— the generation gap. that part of the show where— the generation gap. that part of the show where people from ttttereht— the show where people from different generations debate hot pottttcat— different generations debate hot pottttcat-hy— different generations debate hot political my personal political topics. my personal tavourtte— political topics. my personal favourite part— political topics. my personal favourite part of— political topics. my personal favourite part of the show, by political topics. my personal favcway, part of the show, by political topics. my personal favcway, this: of the show, by political topics. my personal favcway, this week e show, by political topics. my personal favcway, this week following/ political topics. my personal favcway, this week following the the way, this week following the ouarttah— the way, this week following the guardian-alleging- the way, this week following the guardian alleging that guardian story alleging that king— guardian story alleging that king charles's_ guardian story alleging that king charles's ancestors ttrectty— king charles's ancestors directly benefited from the stave— directly benefited from the slave _we're - directly benefited from the slave we're asking, is slave trade. we're asking, is the— slave trade. we're asking, is the monarchy— slave trade. we're asking, is the monarchy a— slave trade. we're asking, is the monarchy a racist institution?- the monarchy a racist institution? now, as we know, youhter— institution? now, as we know, youhter peopte— institution? now, as we know, younger people tend to have a tesser— younger people tend to have a tesser vtevv— younger people tend to have a lesser view of— younger people tend to have a lesser view of the _ younger people tend to have a lesser view of the monarchy as an lesser view of the monarchy as ah—thts- lesser view of the monarchy as ah—thts pottthtl an institution, as this polling trom— an institution, as this polling tom-shows— an institution, as this polling trom-shovs .- an institution, as this polling from shows , shows that from yougov shows, shows that young— from yougov shows, shows that young peopte— from yougov shows, shows that young people more young people are much more disaffected _ young people are much more disaffected and— young people are much more disaffected and more republican in disaffected and more republican he met— disaffected and more republican in their tendencies than older peopte— in their tendencies than older peopte. hov— in their tendencies than older people. now joining me to ttscuss— people. now joining me to discuss this— people. now joining me to discuss this henry bolton , discuss this is henry bolton, former— discuss this is henry bolton, tormer oth— discuss this is henry bolton, former ukip leader and femi hytahter— former ukip leader and femi hytahter .— former ukip leader and femi hytahter . ah— former ukip leader and femi nylander , an anti—racism nylander, an anti—racism camparther— nylander, an anti—racism camparther.— nylander, an anti—racism campaigner. femi, let's start vtth— campaigner. femi, let's start vtth you.— campaigner. femi, let's start vtth you. are— campaigner. femi, let's start with you. are the royals racist? vett— with you. are the royals racist? heu. tt— with you. are the royals racist? heu. tt ve— with you. are the royals racist? well, if we look— with you. are the royals racist? well, if we look at— with you. are the royals racist? well, if we look at it— with you. are the royals racist? well, if we look at it from - with you. are the royals racist? well, if we look at it from a historical perspective , it's historical perspective, it's very, very clear that that what we're taught in school about the royals is not necessarily the reality arnie or is part of the reality, it's the whole reality, but it's not the whole picture. i say

picture. everyone knows if i say divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, survived . divorced, beheaded, survived. everyone in this room, everyone divorced, beheaded, survived. everyo countryis room, everyone divorced, beheaded, survived. everyo country knowsi, everyone divorced, beheaded, survived. everyo country knows what yone divorced, beheaded, survived. everyo country knows what i'me in the country knows what i'm talking the eighth in the country knows what i'm talking he the eighth in the country knows what i'm talking he topped the eighth in the country knows what i'm talking he topped offte eighth in the country knows what i'm talking he topped off . eighth in the country knows what i'm talking he topped off . that'si and how he topped off. that's a long time yeah, exactly . long time ago. yeah, exactly. but if about, example but if i talk about, for example , all the royal emphasis on royal africa company and the fact that both james and charles the second were both large shareholders, i think james the second was a was the majority shareholder in the country, which basically transported the most africans out of any country from africa to the americas in the history of the slave trade. although what's although vvhat's interesting although what's interesting about— although what's interesting about the— although what's interesting about the guardian revelations is about the guardian revelations rsco-hcem— about the guardian revelations is-concern the— about the guardian revelations is concern the beaux lions is they concern the beaux lions aht— is they concern the beaux lions ant—ttohs— is they concern the beaux lions aht—ttohs are- is they concern the beaux lions and lions are actually and the beaux lions are actually the oueeh— and the beaux lions are actually the queen mother's side the the queen mother's side of the tamtty— the queen mother's side of the tamtty-tt-s— the queen mother's side of the family it's actually family. so it's not actually the royat— family. so it's not actually the royal--_ family. so it's not actually the royat- rts— family. so it's not actually the royal-. it's the _ family. so it's not actually the royal . it's the people who royal side. it's the people who marrtet— royal side. it's the people who married _that'sl married into the royals that's thteresttht— married into the royals that's interesting because means interesting because that means both— interesting because that means tooth-the— interesting because that means both _the-havel both sides of the family have thts—thovl both sides of the family havei this_ know the this link because we know the royat— this link because we know the royat stte— this link because we know the royal side-family- royal side of the family is upset— royal side of the family is linked _tradel royal side of the family is linked _trade they royal side of the family is linke the _trade they royal side of the family is linkethe-whojtrade they royal side of the family is linke the .who |trade off hey were the ones who signed off on it. queen elizabeth. the first was basically gave a was the one who basically gave a slave hawkins. one slave ship to john hawkins. one of first slave but of the first slave traders. but now we know that the other side of the family. so that's both sides of the family have this this it's not

this history. and it's not surprising because history surprising because the history of slavery something is of slavery is something which is unked of slavery is something which is linked the upper echelons of linked to the upper echelons of british and the british british society and the british taxpayer. we talk about reparations here today. the british been paying british taxpayer has been paying compensation about british taxpayer has been paying comp butition about british taxpayer has been paying comp but totn about british taxpayer has been paying comp but to not about british taxpayer has been paying comp but to not africans. so 2015, but to not africans. so you want see charles 2015, but to not africans. so you want-see charles iii. you want to see charles iii ttrectty— you want to see charles iii trrectty pay— you want to see charles iii directly pay reparations ? directly pay reparations? i thmh— directly pay reparations? i thmt that— directly pay reparations? i think that all— directly pay reparations? i think that all of- directly pay reparations? i think that all of these- directly pay reparations? i think that all of these families that we can directly link the funds that they have today and the wealth that they have today to the degradation, the murder , to the degradation, the murder, the enslavement of africans should have to use some of that wealth to pay back to the descendants of henry . descendants of the henry. what's response that? what's your response to that? i that— what's your response to that? i ththt—overl what's your response to that? i. think—over since think what's happened over since root— think what's happened over since root or— think what's happened over since root or so— think what's happened over since root or so ts— think what's happened over since 1807 or so is that— think what's happened over since 1807 or so is that the british peopte— 1807 or so is that the british peopre have— 1807 or so is that the british people have realised what a hethous— people have realised what a hethous .— people have realised what a heinous , appalling trade, the heinous, appalling trade, the rate— heinous, appalling trade, the trate th— heinous, appalling trade, the trade in human— heinous, appalling trade, the trade in human beings has been and trade in human beings has been aht tt— trade in human beings has been aht t as— trade in human beings has been aht tt the— trade in human beings has been and it was the british people aht— and it was the british people aht tt— and it was the british people aht t as— and it was the british people and it was the— and it was the british people and it was the british government- and it was the british government and the british tmptre— government and the british tmprre that— government and the british empire that ultimately drove the throat— empire that ultimately drove the ttohat move— empire that ultimately drove the global moves to _ empire that ultimately drove the global moves to change and oveumrt— global moves to change and overturn well— global moves to change and overturn well over 4700 years of that. — overturn well over 4700 years of that. rhts— overturn well over 4700 years of that. this this_ overturn well over 4700 years of that. this this appalling- that. this this appalling activity . but if we're talking

activity. but if we're talking about reparations . evans and about reparations. evans and we're talking about the royal family what about the counties of yorkshire and lancashire? what about the city of liverpool? that's bristol, southampton. what about portugal? spain rome, greece? the egyptians? slavery has been going on for centuries, millennia and it is appalling. and there's no way i would defend it under any circumstances. but nor would anybody else in this country. and what we can't do is take people who have whose agenda is to say what we must do is eradicate slavery and human trafficking wherever and whenever we find it. in the glow across the globe, we must eradicate it. it's appalling. and take those people and say, actually , you say that, but your actually, you say that, but your great great, great great grandfather did this and therefore you must hand over some of the money that your family now has to pay for it. let's put that to femi . i mean, let's put that to femi. i mean, you— let's put that to femi. i mean, you court— let's put that to femi. i mean, you could make— let's put that to femi. i mean, you could make an— let's put that to femi. i mean, you could make an argument that

if you could make an argument that tr youe— you could make an argument that rt youre tomo— you could make an argument that rt youre tome to— you could make an argument that if you're going to be blaming suhsetueht— if you're going to be blaming subsequent generations for the ot— subsequent generations for the crimes of their— subsequent generations for the crimes of their forefathers and mothers— crimes of their forefathers and mothers .— crimes of their forefathers and mothers , then— crimes of their forefathers and mothers , then should we be mothers, then should we be hotttht— mothers, then should we be hotttht att— mothers, then should we be holding all germans responsible for holding all germans responsible tor the— holding all germans responsible for the holocaust— holding all germans responsible for the holocaust cost? should we he. — for the holocaust cost? should we he. you — for the holocaust cost? should we be, you know,— for the holocaust cost? should we be, you know, we could go arout— we be, you know, we could go arout att— we be, you know, we could go around all of— we be, you know, we could go around all of the— we be, you know, we could go around all of the different comttcts— around all of the different conflicts in— around all of the different conflicts in the- around all of the different conflicts in the world and we court— conflicts in the world and we coutt tht— conflicts in the world and we could link somebody britain could link somebody in britain to could link somebody in britain| to—yesteryear to those conflicts of yesteryear . vvhere — to those conflicts of yesteryear . vvhere toes— to those conflicts of yesteryear . where does it— to those conflicts of yesteryear . where does it get us at the cat— . where does it get us at thei eat—veto end of the day for me? well, i meah—youi end of the day for me? well, i meavhat—youi end of the day for me? well, i meawhat spain, you end of the day for me? well, i meawhat spain, portugal say, what about spain, portugal 7 |meam— say, what about spain, portugal ? imean, there's— say, what about spain, portugal ? imean, there's-youj ? i mean, there's links. if you look queen anne queen look at queen anne again, queen anne, known for anne, who's famously known for unifying scotland and britain, basically signed off and got the uk what was called asiento uk what was called the asiento de los, which basically is what spain basically used to outsource their slave trading enterprise. they didn't do much slavery themselves. they didn't catch slaving. catch much slaving. so originally they did it with portugal then did with portugal, then they did it with britain. and britain got a monopoly basically to do monopoly rights basically to do slave trading on behalf of spain. all of these these these european powers are interlinked. i don't think anybody's contesting history of this. contesting the history of this. what we're contesting and what i contest— what we're contesting and what i cohtest ts— what we're contesting and what i contest is whether— what we're contesting and what i contest is whether or not totay-s— contest is whether or not today's generation that consider

this today's generation that consider thts as— today's generation that consider thts as ah— today's generation that consider this as an appalling thing and voutt— this as an appalling thing and voutt-to— this as an appalling thing and would-to see— this as an appalling thing and would to see what what would like to see what what vestttes— would like to see what what vestttes ot— would like to see what what vestiges of slavery still exist. thsotute— vestiges of slavery still exist. absolute lutely_ vestiges of slavery still exist. absolute lutely wiped out hecause— absolute lutely wiped out because we _ absolute lutely wiped out because we think it's appalling. you because we think it's appalling. vou mov— because we think it's appalling. you know my— because we think it's appalling. you know my great great great trahttather— you know my great great great grandfather operated mills, cotton— grandfather operated mills, cotton mills— grandfather operated mills, cotton mills owned cotton mills up th— cotton mills owned cotton mills up in yorkshire.— cotton mills owned cotton mills up in yorkshire. now you know, i ton-t— up in yorkshire. now you know, i toh-t have— up in yorkshire. now you know, i toh-t have to. — up in yorkshire. now you know, i don't have to. i— up in yorkshire. now you know, i don't have to. i might have a mce— don't have to. i might have a sutt— don't have to. i might have a nice suit, but— don't have to. i might have a nice suit, but i— don't have to. i might have a nice suit, but i don't have two pemtes— nice suit, but i don't have two pemtes to— nice suit, but i don't have two pemtes to rut— nice suit, but i don't have two pennies to rub together and i ton-t— pennies to rub together and i toh-t see— pennies to rub together and i toh-t vhy— pennies to rub together and i don't see why he— pennies to rub together and i don't see why he arnie running his don't see why he arnie running hts mttts— don't see why he arnie running his mills, giving— don't see why he arnie running his mills, giving people emptoymeht— his mills, giving people employment , trying to do the employment, trying to do the test— employment, trying to do the test tor— employment, trying to do the best for-country. - employment, trying to do the best for country. society best for his country. is society as best for his country. is society- asmo—ey best for his country. is society- as|that—mohey best for his country. is society as that community money best for his country. is society as that community from money best for his country. is society as that community from whichy into that community from which we into that community from which veihehettt— into that community from which veihehettt .— into that community from which we.benefit . now— into that community from which we benefit . now you benefit we all benefit. now you benefit as vett— we all benefit. now you benefit as wet .— we all benefit. now you benefit as vett . vvhy— we all benefit. now you benefit as well . why should we? now this as well. why should we? now this teherattoh— as well. why should we? now this teherattoh cah— as well. why should we? now this generation can start— as well. why should we? now this generation can start paying? who doipsw— generation can start paying? who doipay ?— generation can start paying? who toipay e hov— generation can start paying? who do.pay ? how much- generation can start paying? who do pay ? how much do we pay do we pay? how much do we pay aht— do we pay? how much do we pay aht where— do we pay? how much do we pay aht where to— do we pay? how much do we pay and where do we— do we pay? how much do we pay and where do we stop? because vhat— and where do we stop? because what—other- and where do we stop? becausei what—other countries what about these other countries 7 vett— what about these other countries 7 vvett. why— what about these other countries ? well, why aren't— what about these other countries ? well, why aren't china ? well, why aren't you in china saytht— ? well, why aren't you in china saymt sort— ? well, why aren't you in china saymt sort your— ? well, why aren't you in china saying sort your slaves out? no.— saying sort your slaves out? to. ho— saying sort your slaves out? to. r— saying sort your slaves out? to. r mean.— saying sort your slaves out? no, no, i mean, like- saying sort your slaves out? no, no, i mean, like i- saying sort your slaves out? no, no, i mean, like i say, it's not i'm in the uk not just what i'm in the uk because i've because i'm in the uk and i've been to talk about the because i'm in the uk and i've beetoday. to talk about the because i'm in the uk and i've beetoday. have alk about the because i'm in the uk and i've beetoday. have lotsibout the because i'm in the uk and i've beetoday. have lots of ut the uk today. i have lots of opinions on other european countries the is, countries. the point is, compared to someone in the canbbean compared to someone in the caribbean , you probably do have caribbean, you probably do have two together caribbean, you probably do have two uk together caribbean, you probably do have two uk aogether caribbean, you probably do have two uk aogethe richer because the uk is a much richer country in country than people in the canbbean caribbean and a lot of the people who we're talking about,

i charles definitely i mean. king charles definitely has much more than two has more, much more than two pennies together. the pennies to rub together. but the point to beat your point is, if i were to beat your grandma up in the middle of the street, rob her wallet, leave grandma up in the middle of the street, dead|er wallet, leave grandma up in the middle of the street, dead and”allet, leave grandma up in the middle of the street, dead and then. leave grandma up in the middle of the street, dead and then give te grandma up in the middle of the street, dead and then give that her for dead and then give that wallet to my son and then turn around. the police found me. they put in they said they could put me in jail, but i say, well, you can't take back because my take the wallet back because my son . sins of the son has it now. sins of the father visited upon father cannot be visited upon the son. let me just interject vtth— the son. let me just interject vtth ohe— the son. let me just interject with one question— etifit" let me just interject with one question here, because etifit" let me just interject vtinterviewedstion here, because etifit" let me just interject vtinterviewedstiorhead, because etifit" let me just interject vtinterviewed stior head of ecause etifit" let me just interject vtinterviewed stior head of theise i interviewed the head of the hrthce-s— i interviewed the head of the. prince's—weekend's prince's trust for the weekend's papers— prince's trust for the weekend's papers .— prince's trust for the weekend's papers . aht— prince's trust for the weekend's papers , and martina milburn said prince's trust for the weekend's paptcan'tind martina milburn said prince's trust for the weekend's paptcan't saymartina milburn said prince's trust for the weekend's paptcan't say that na milburn said prince's trust for the weekend's paptcan't say that princeburn said you can't say that prince chartes— you can't say that prince charles has— you can't say that prince charles has got racist bone in charles has got a racist bone in his charles has got a racist bone in hts-toot— charles has got a racist bone in his-look-much- his body. look how much he's tohe— his body. look how much he's tohe tor— his body. look how much he's done for disaffected young his body. look how much he's done fcwho affected young his body. look how much he's done fcwho are cted young his body. look how much he's done fcwho are often oung his body. look how much he's done fcwho are often from ethnic people who are often from ethnic mthortty— people who are often from ethnic minority backgrounds in regards to the— minority backgrounds in regards to the prhce-s— minority backgrounds in regards to the prince's trust. doesn't that— to the prince's trust. doesn't that shov— to the prince's trust. doesn't that show that— to the prince's trust. doesn't that show that he is trying to mate— that show that he is trying to mate-tor— that show that he is trying to make .for some— that show that he is trying to make .for some of- that show that he is trying to make for some of the sins make up for some of the sins of the-r— make up for some of the sins of the-r meah— make up for some of the sins of the-i mean, there's- make up for some of the sins of the i mean, there's scales the past? i mean, there's scales of the past? i mean, there's scales or ththts— the past? i mean, there's scales or ththts aht— the past? i mean, there's scales of things and at— the past? i mean, there's scales of things and at the end of the dshy,— of things and at the end of the days—kings- day, prince charles, king, chartes— day, prince charles, king, chartes ts— day, prince charles, king, charles is the— day, prince charles, king, charles is the monarch of one of the—th- charles is the monarch of one of the—h the- the richest countries in the worm.— the richest countries in the vortt. ts— the richest countries in the world, is the— the richest countries in the world, is the institution that he—has- world, is the institution that he_has never- he represents, has never apototrset— he represents, has never| apologised—in he represents, has never- apologised_in the apologised for its role in the stave— apologised for its role in the stave trate. — apologised for its role in the slave trade, which i've given you—ot- slave trade, which i've given. you—or totay. slave trade, which i've given- you—ot totay. at you a few examples of today. at toast— least 12 monarchs have been directly slave directly linked to the slave trade of his trade and kind of through his trust and he's very wealthy. he trade and kind of through his

trus have he's very wealthy. he trade and kind of through his trus have he'strust wealthy. he trade and kind of through his trus have he'strust andlthy. he trade and kind of through his trus have he'strust and he '. he trade and kind of through his trus have he'strust and he can can have this trust and he can have well doing have ten castles as well doing a little bit here and is little bit here and there is not the as henry. what's wrong the same as henry. what's wrong vtth—hecause- the same as henry. what's wrong with—because it's- with an apology? because it's hot— with an apology? because it's hot king— with an apology? because it's not king charles— with an apology? because it's not king charles who has to apototrse.— not king charles who has to apototrse. he-s— not king charles who has to apologise. he's done nothing. hes— apologise. he's done nothing. he-s trymt— apologise. he's done nothing. he-s trymt to— apologise. he's done nothing. he's trying to improve the lot of he's trying to improve the lot or peopte— he's trying to improve the lot or peopre rrvmt— he's trying to improve the lot of people living this country of people living in this country aht— of people living in this country and across the _ of people living in this country and across the commonwealth and actuatty— and across the commonwealth and actuatry heyopt— and across the commonwealth and actually beyond. that's what he-s—aht- actually beyond. that's what he's—and he's. actually beyond. that's whati he's—and he's got he's trying to do and he's got hoththt— he's trying to do and he's got nothing apologise for. you nothing to apologise for. you cant— nothing to apologise for. you can't apologise— nothing to apologise for. you can't apologise for somebody esets— can't apologise for somebody else's behaviour.— can't apologise for somebody else's behaviour. you can't say you— else's behaviour. you can't say you cah— else's behaviour. you can't say you say— else's behaviour. you can't say you say r— else's behaviour. you can't say you say r am— else's behaviour. you can't say you can say i am absolutely amhe— you can say i am absolutely arnie through— you can say i am absolutely arnie through today's lens appattet— arnie through today's lens appalled that— arnie through today's lens appalled that one of my ancestors— appalled that one of my ancestors did— appalled that one of my ancestors did x, y and z. excuse hut— ancestors did x, y and z. excuse hut r— ancestors did x, y and z. excuse me, but i myself— ancestors did x, y and z. excuse me, but i myself have done hoththt— me, but i myself have done hothmt vroht— me, but i myself have done nothing wrong .— me, but i myself have done nothing wrong . and institutional nothing wrong. and institutional ap°l°9y_ nothing wrong. and institutional aporoty the— nothing wrong. and institutional apology the institution. that's not the— apology the institution. that's not the institution of the crown . vou— not the institution of the crown . vou mov— not the institution of the crown . you know that.— not the institution of the crown . you know that. that's not how it . you know that. that's not how tt voutt— . you know that. that's not how tt voutt he— . you know that. that's not how it would be interpreted . crown it would be interpreted. crown is it would be interpreted. crown ts heretttary. — it would be interpreted. crown is hereditary. you.- it would be interpreted. crown is hereditary. /rir. 2 ”�* c is hereditary. you. i can't the guilt be hereditary? that wouldn't crown itself guilt be hereditary? that wy something crown itself guilt be hereditary? that wy something give nn itself guilt be hereditary? that wy something give nn yourf is something you give to your son because of blood. why can't is something you give to your son factause of blood. why can't is something you give to your son fact that of blood. why can't is something you give to your son fact that if blood. why can't is something you give to your son fact that i canyod. why can't is something you give to your son fact that i can apologise :an't the fact that i can apologise for the fact that i can apologise tor-ot— the fact that i can apologise tor-or my- the fact that i can apologise. for-of my ancestors? for the guilt of my ancestors? erst.— for the guilt of my ancestors? atso. r— for the guilt of my ancestors? atso. r-ve-re— for the guilt of my ancestors? also, i-we're-to - also, i think we're going to have to leave there. have to leave it there. femi nylander and henry bolton, thank you indeed for you very, very much indeed for joining going to be joining me. we're going to be back next with coronation

back next week with a coronation special. we're going to come live buckingham palace. live from buckingham palace. i asked you what, 930, but up next at michael portillo. at 11, it's michael portillo. please do stay tuned for that. lovely to see you .

ina in a few days time. king in a few days time . king charles in a few days time. king charles iii in a few days time. king charles rrr vtt— in a few days time. king charles rrr vttt he— in a few days time. king charles iii will be crowned— in a few days time. king charles iii will be crowned in— in a few days time. king charles iii will be crowned in a- iii will be crowned in a ceremony that punctuates our htstory— ceremony that punctuates our htstory. vve— ceremony that punctuates our history. we won't— ceremony that punctuates our history. we won't just be tocustht— history. we won't just be tocusmt oh— history. we won't just be focusing on the pomp and circumstance— focusing on the pomp and circumstance because the corohattoh— circumstance because the coronation was- circumstance because the coronation was also about conquest.— coronation was also about conquest, rebellion and murder. in conquest, rebellion and murder. ta tr.— conquest, rebellion and murder. h t. our— conquest, rebellion and murder. in it, our liberties— conquest, rebellion and murder. in it, our liberties are consecrated- in it, our liberties are consecrated . trike in it, our liberties are consecrated . trite consecrated. next week, a special edition of farage with professor david starkey, the crown a thousand year story on gb news britain's news.