fellow travellers. welcome along to neil oliver live on gb news online, on the television set and on radio. tonight we'll be joined by the author of the moral case for fossil fuels to discuss the climate and the role fossil fuels will play in humanity's future. and a trustee of climate advisors, tom burke, will be joining us to discuss the ongoing debate around climate change. we'll also be discussing the phenomenon that is 3d imaging, new images have been released that show the

wonders of the titanic. we have author, historian and tv presenter tim moulton joining us to discuss this fascinating display of human endeavour. all of that and more coming up. but first, an update on the latest news from ray addison . thanks, news from ray addison. thanks, neil. here's the— news from ray addison. thanks, neil. here's the latest- 13. z: thanks, neil. here's the latest from 33, z: thanks, neil. here's the latest from the newsroom. our— neil. here's the latest from the newsroom. our top— neil. here's the latest from the newsroom. our top story tonight, pmuip— newsroom. our top story tonight, phillip schofield_ newsroom. our top story tonight, phillip schofield says he's agreed— phillip schofield says he's agreed to— phillip schofield says he's agreed to step— phillip schofield says he's agreed to step down from itv's flagship— agreed to step down from itv's flagship daytime— agreed to step down from itv's flagship daytime show this morning— flagship daytime show this morning with— flagship daytime show this morning with immediate effect . morning with immediate effect. itv morning with immediate effect. nv has— morning with immediate effect. itv has confirmed— morning with immediate effect. itv has confirmed he won't be returning— itv has confirmed he won't be returning despite— itv has confirmed he won't be returning despite two decades at the helm— returning despite two decades at the here with— returning despite two decades at the helm with last— returning despite two decades at the helm with last thursday's episode— the helm with last thursday's epheeee being— the helm with last thursday's episode being his final appearance— episode being his final appearance .- episode being his final appearance . co—host holly appearance. co—host holly hhheughhy— appearance. co—host holly willoughby will not be leaving. she-e— willoughby will not be leaving. she's responded,— willoughby will not be leaving. she's responded, saying the sofa wen-e— she's responded, saying the sofa wen-e feet— she's responded, saying the sofa wen-e feeh the— she's responded, saying the sofa won't feel the same without him. mr won't feel the same without him. m. sehehehe— won't feel the same without him. mr schofield posted on social media— mr schofield posted on social media earlier— mr schofield posted on social media earlier saying he wanted to media earlier saying he wanted ee pretee— media earlier saying he wanted to protect the— media earlier saying he wanted to protect the programme that he tevet. — to protect the programme that he tevet. tt-e— to protect the programme that he loved. it's after— to protect the programme that he loved. it's after his— to protect the programme that he loved. it's after his brother , loved. it's after his brother, ttmethy— loved. it's after his brother, timothy schofield was jailed for 12 timothy schofield was jailed for h teete— timothy schofield was jailed for h years the— timothy schofield was jailed for 12 years after being convicted of 12 years after being convicted et ehttt— 12 years after being convicted et ehttt sex— 12 years after being convicted of child sex offences . world

of child sex offences. world teeters— of child sex offences. world leaders have— of child sex offences. world leaders have welcomed ukraine's heetteht— leaders have welcomed ukraine's heetteht te— leaders have welcomed ukraine's president to the— leaders have welcomed ukraine's president to the g7— leaders have welcomed ukraine's president to the g7 summit in japan— president to the g7 summit in japan .— president to the g7 summit in japan . h— president to the g7 summit in japan . th teet— president to the g7 summit in japan. in good to— president to the g7 summit in japan . in good to see you. japan. in good to see you. how are japan. in good to see you. how eteyeue teth— japan. in good to see you. how are you? yeah, i'm— japan. in good to see you. how are you? yeah, i'm all- japan. in good to see you. at; 7 yeah, i'm all right. are you? yeah, i'm all right. thehte — are you? yeah, i'm all right. thanks >— are you? yeah, i'm all right. thanks >volodymyr- are you.7 yeah, i'm all right. thanks > volodymyr zelenskyy met with the uk's prime minister, rishi sunak, who said the invite demonstrated the international community's steadfast support for ukraine against russian aggression. french president emmanuel macron described his presence as a game changer towards peace . as we well, it's towards peace. as we well, it's as the white house approved plans to provide f—16 fighter jets to ukraine and to train its pilots. president zelenskyy has repeatedly lobbied western allies for air support and hailed the move as historic . he hailed the move as historic. he says it will greatly enhance ukraine's army in the sky. the plans are expected to be rolled out in the coming weeks and months. but russia says it carries colossal risks for the west . well, meanwhile, the head west. well, meanwhile, the head of russia's wagner mercenary group is claiming full control

of the eastern ukrainian city of bakhmut . of the eastern ukrainian city of bakhmut. it's been the of the eastern ukrainian city of bakhmut . it's been the focus of bakhmut. it's been the focus of the longest and the bloodiest battle of the war so far. ukraine's deputy defence minister says the situation is critical, but denies that the city has fallen. the leader of the group, which the uk plans to declare as a terrorist organisation , said its forces organisation, said its forces will withdraw next week for rest and retrain ing and counting is continuing in the local elections in northern ireland, with just 30 seats left to declare . sinn fein has made declare. sinn fein has made strong gains and is on course to become the largest party in local government, with 137. council was so far. local government, with 137. council was so far . the dup council was so far. the dup currently has 116 and the alliance party has 62. it's the first electoral test for the parties since last year's assembly elections and it takes place against the backdrop of the stormont stalemate . a man the stormont stalemate. a man has scaled the front of the bbc building in central london in

protest against a historic statue. the man has been seen hammering at the prospero and ariel statue, which has been on display since 1933. police and rescue teams are there negotiating with him. campaigners have been calling for the statue's removal as it's sculptor eric gill admitted in his diaries that he had sexually abused his daughters on tv onune abused his daughters on tv online , on dab+ radio and on online, on dab+ radio and on tune in to this is gb news. back now to . now to. neil when it now to. neil- . when it comes to now to. neil— . when it comes to the to. net— - when it comes to the future when it comes to the future of - when it comes to the future of epeetee— our species, there's a fork in the—sayl our species, there's a fork in. the—eat tee the road. some would say too meet— the road. some would say too many-toothe— the road. some would say too many looking back at that many are looking back at that tert— many are looking back at that fork-shoulders- many are looking back at that fork-shoulders as- fork over the shoulders as governments— fork over the shoulders as governments around the world ttegheteh— governments around the world frogmarch populations and frogmarch their populations and civilisations_ frogmarch their populations and civilisations towards misery, hettehh— civilisations towards misery, hardship and— civilisations towards misery, hardship and destruction . i'm hardship and destruction. i'm nowhere— hardship and destruction. i'm nowhere near— hardship and destruction. i'm nowhere near as— hardship and destruction. i'm nowhere near as gloomy as that

teet— nowhere near as gloomy as that test tee— nowhere near as gloomy as that last sentence makes me sound, though.— last sentence makes me sound, though. h— last sentence makes me sound, though. he teet— last sentence makes me sound, though. in fact, more than anything— though. in fact, more than anything else,— though. in fact, more than anything else, i'm simply incredulous— anything else, i'm simply incredulous at— anything else, i'm simply incredulous at the pitch of the nonsense being— incredulous at the pitch of the nonsense being applied by policy ter— nonsense being applied by policy ter te— nonsense being applied by policy makers to have— nonsense being applied by policy makers to have us— nonsense being applied by policy makers to have us submit to her— makers to have us submit to their ruinous— makers to have us submit to their ruinous plans. it's so ethere— their ruinous plans. it's so ehvteee herr— their ruinous plans. it's so obvious now the dismantling of the good— obvious now the dismantling of the teeth the— obvious now the dismantling of the good, the construction of the— the good, the construction of the tee— the good, the construction of the bet ee— the good, the construction of the bad as to _ the good, the construction of the bad as to be— the good, the construction of the bad as to be unmissable. i'll the bad as to be unmissable. ttt keep_ the bad as to be unmissable. r-tt teeh eeymg— the bad as to be unmissable. i'll keep saying what i believe to he— i'll keep saying what i believe to he tree,— i'll keep saying what i believe to be true, that— i'll keep saying what i believe to be true, that there's nothing green— to be true, that there's nothing green eteet— to be true, that there's nothing green about the _ to be true, that there's nothing green about the green agenda, teet— green about the green agenda, met-ete— green about the green agenda, teet-ett greet— green about the green agenda, teet-ett greet .- green about the green agenda, just old greed . and the just plain old greed. and the evttehee— just plain old greed. and the evttehee te— just plain old greed. and the evidence is before our eyes. and ent— evidence is before our eyes. and more and more members of those put more and more members of those get upen— more and more members of those put upon populations are temehthg— put upon populations are demanding answers to questions. seme— demanding answers to questions. some me— demanding answers to questions. some me hete— demanding answers to questions. some may have passed that fork in some may have passed that fork th the— some may have passed that fork th the reed,— some may have passed that fork in the road, but— some may have passed that fork in the road, but there's still ttme— in the road, but there's still ttme te— in the road, but there's still time to turn— in the road, but there's still time to turn around the hiding of time to turn around the hiding et the— time to turn around the hiding et the truth— time to turn around the hiding of the truth, the _ time to turn around the hiding of the truth, the obscuring and wtthhetthg— of the truth, the obscuring and withholding of— of the truth, the obscuring and withholding of facts is being prehet— withholding of facts is being prehet ee— withholding of facts is being pushed as our— withholding of facts is being pushed as our new normal. sad to say,— pushed as our new normal. sad to eey, when— pushed as our new normal. sad to say, even when the— pushed as our new normal. sad to say, even when the truth is reveetet— say, even when the truth is revealed and _ say, even when the truth is revealed and more and more truth is revealed and more and more truth te reveetet— revealed and more and more truth te reveetet every— revealed and more and more truth is revealed every day, far too meet— is revealed every day, far too merry the— is revealed every day, far too meet the t— is revealed every day, far too many find it too— is revealed every day, far too many find it too hard to look at. many find it too hard to look et. rte— many find it too hard to look et. tt-e hte— many find it too hard to look at. it's like a— many find it too hard to look at. it's like a house infested wtth— at. it's like a house infested wtth rete— at. it's like a house infested with rats, but— at. it's like a house infested with rats, but with the inhabitants— with rats, but with the inhabitants finding the rats too hert— inhabitants finding the rats too hert te— inhabitants finding the rats too hert te teet— inhabitants finding the rats too hard to deal with— inhabitants finding the rats too hard to deal with and preferring to tghere— hard to deal with and preferring to tghere the— hard to deal with and preferring to ignore the evidence all meme-t— to ignore the evidence all around. they— to ignore the evidence all around. they keep their eyes eteeet. — around. they keep their eyes

closed. instead,— around. they keep their eyes closed. instead, i— around. they keep their eyes closed. instead, i see no rats. amt— closed. instead, i see no rats. amt ee— closed. instead, i see no rats. amt ee thet— closed. instead, i see no rats. and so that must— closed. instead, i see no rats. and so that must mean there are no and so that must mean there are he rete. — and so that must mean there are he rete. the— and so that must mean there are no rats. the lying— and so that must mean there are no rats. the lying is— and so that must mean there are no rats. the lying is all around us no rats. the lying is all around he ett— no rats. the lying is all around he ett the— no rats. the lying is all around us all the time— no rats. the lying is all around us all the time ,_ no rats. the lying is all around us all the time , living with us all the time, living with lying,— us all the time, living with lying, accepting lying is ehether— lying, accepting lying is another part— lying, accepting lying is another part of what is offered up ee— another part of what is offered up ee the— another part of what is offered up ee the herr— another part of what is offered up as the new normal. in the eet— up as the new normal. in the novel, watership_ up as the new normal. in the novel, watership down the tetegee— novel, watership down the refugee rabbits find temporary reeette— refugee rabbits find temporary reeette m— refugee rabbits find temporary reeette th e— refugee rabbits find temporary respite in a warren filled with the eetteet— respite in a warren filled with the saddest bunnies in england. there-e— the saddest bunnies in england. there-e etehtt— the saddest bunnies in england. there's plenty of— the saddest bunnies in england. there's plenty of food , but no there's plenty of food, but no joy there's plenty of food, but no joy whatsoever. _ there's plenty of food, but no joy whatsoever. the refugees teem— joy whatsoever. the refugees teem the— joy whatsoever. the refugees learn the truth— joy whatsoever. the refugees learn the truth soon enough that the eet— learn the truth soon enough that the sad rabbits— learn the truth soon enough that the sad rabbits have chosen to the— the sad rabbits have chosen to the h— the sad rabbits have chosen to the th the— the sad rabbits have chosen to live in the knowledge. the termer— live in the knowledge. the termer hee— live in the knowledge. the farmer has set— live in the knowledge. the farmer has set snares as well as mtee— farmer has set snares as well as ettee et— farmer has set snares as well as ettee et teet— farmer has set snares as well as ettee et teet .— farmer has set snares as well as piles of food . they— farmer has set snares as well as piles of food . they can eat the piles of food. they can eat the tree— piles of food. they can eat the tree teet — piles of food. they can eat the free food, but— piles of food. they can eat the free food, but they— piles of food. they can eat the free food, but they must accept thet— free food, but they must accept they wttt— free food, but they must accept they wttt he— free food, but they must accept they will be harvested at will rether— they will be harvested at will rether ther— they will be harvested at will rather than confront the truth. teeve — rather than confront the truth. teeve ter— rather than confront the truth. leave for pastures new. perhaps tt— leave for pastures new. perhaps tt thet— leave for pastures new. perhaps even if that meant— leave for pastures new. perhaps even if that meant less convenience— even if that meant less convenience ,- even if that meant less convenience , they turn blind convenience, they turn blind eyee— convenience, they turn blind eyee te— convenience, they turn blind eyee te whet— convenience, they turn blind eyes to what is— convenience, they turn blind eyes to what is right in front of eyes to what is right in front et them.— eyes to what is right in front et them. ._ eyes to what is right in front of them. i see— eyes to what is right in front of them. i see no— eyes to what is right in front of them. i see no snares. they tett— of them. i see no snares. they tell themselves— of them. i see no snares. they tell themselves ._ of them. i see no snares. they tell themselves . and so that tell themselves. and so that meet— tell themselves. and so that must mean there no snares. must mean there are no snares. is must mean there are no snares. he the— must mean there are no snares. re the htggeet— must mean there are no snares. is the biggest stick being wtettet— is the biggest stick being wielded now— is the biggest stick being wielded now by those driving the merch— wielded now by those driving the mereh etehg— wielded now by those driving the march along the— wielded now by those driving the march along the road to nowhere is march along the road to nowhere he the— march along the road to nowhere he the mem— march along the road to nowhere is the claim our— march along the road to nowhere is the claim our species is to heme— is the claim our species is to tteme ter— is the claim our species is to blame for climate change. what

they— blame for climate change. what they relentlessly— blame for climate change. what they relentlessly refer to as a ettmete— they relentlessly refer to as a climate crisis. _ they relentlessly refer to as a climate crisis. having been trewheeteh— climate crisis. having been browbeaten for— climate crisis. having been browbeaten for decades, swathes of browbeaten for decades, swathes et mere— browbeaten for decades, swathes et theh — browbeaten for decades, swathes of more than one— browbeaten for decades, swathes of more than one generation has eeeeetet— of more than one generation has eeeeetet eer— of more than one generation has accepted our civilisations and weye— accepted our civilisations and weye et— accepted our civilisations and weye et hte— accepted our civilisations and ways of life must— accepted our civilisations and ways of life must be surrendered, dismantled in the et— surrendered, dismantled in the name of saving— surrendered, dismantled in the name of saving the earth. but then— name of saving the earth. but then teet— name of saving the earth. but then last year,— name of saving the earth. but then last year, an— name of saving the earth. but then last year, an organisation eettet— then last year, an organisation called clientele,— then last year, an organisation called clientele, the climate intelligence— called clientele, the climate intelligence foundation, eehttehet— intelligence foundation, published a— intelligence foundation, published a document called the ttertt— published a document called the world climate— published a document called the world climate declaration . it world climate declaration. it etghet— world climate declaration. it etghet hy— world climate declaration. it was signed by over 1000 was signed by over1000 scientists— was signed by over1000 scientists and- was signed by over 1000 scientists and others from a eetehtttte— scientists and others from a scientific background and nobel ehyetee— scientific background and nobel physics laureate— scientific background and nobel physics laureate was among them . amt— physics laureate was among them . amt the— physics laureate was among them . and the declaration attracted hege— . and the declaration attracted huge attention _ . and the declaration attracted huge attention on social media wtth— huge attention on social media wtth rte— huge attention on social media wtth tte hete— huge attention on social media with its bold assertion that there— with its bold assertion that there te— with its bold assertion that there he he— with its bold assertion that there is no climate emergency . there is no climate emergency. the— there is no climate emergency. the declaration— there is no climate emergency. the declaration also stated thet— the declaration also stated thet, geete— the declaration also stated that, quote, earth's climate has vertet— that, quote, earth's climate has vertet ee— that, quote, earth's climate has vertet ee tehg— that, quote, earth's climate has varied as long as— that, quote, earth's climate has varied as long as the planet has extetet— varied as long as the planet has extetet wtth— varied as long as the planet has existed with natural cold and gheeee.— existed with natural cold and warm phases. the little ice age ehtet— warm phases. the little ice age ehtet ee— warm phases. the little ice age ended as recently— warm phases. the little ice age ended as recently as 1850. theretere— ended as recently as 1850. therefore, it's— ended as recently as 1850. therefore, it's no surprise we're experiencing a period of wermhg— we're experiencing a period of warming needless to say, the declaration's_ warming needless to say, the declaration's signatories were reehtty— declaration's signatories were roundly vilified— declaration's signatories were roundly vilified and dismissed by the— roundly vilified and dismissed by the mainstream as having the wrehg— by the mainstream as having the wrehg eert— by the mainstream as having the wrehg eert et— by the mainstream as having the wrong sort of scientific qualifications and were

theretere— qualifications and were therefore not- qualifications and were therefore not worth heeding heeet— therefore not worth heeding teeet eh— therefore not worth heeding based on extensive personal eeertehe— based on extensive personal eeertehe et— based on extensive personal experience of the counselling weye— experience of the counselling weye et— experience of the counselling weye et the— experience of the counselling ways of the mainstream. i would say ways of the mainstream. i would eey tt— ways of the mainstream. i would eey t e— ways of the mainstream. i would eey tt ever— ways of the mainstream. i would say it was ever thus, but here we et— say it was ever thus, but here we are at that— say it was ever thus, but here we are at that fork in the road . teet— we are at that fork in the road . teet vveet— we are at that fork in the road . last week on— we are at that fork in the road . last week on this show i asked my geeete— . last week on this show i asked my guests whether— . last week on this show i asked my guests whether there are too mehy— my guests whether there are too mehy hemeh— my guests whether there are too many human beings alive on the etehet— many human beings alive on the etehet er— many human beings alive on the etehet er tee— many human beings alive on the planet or too few. _ many human beings alive on the planet or too few. that's the extent— planet or too few. that's the extent et— planet or too few. that's the extent of the _ planet or too few. that's the extent of the polarisation of the— extent of the polarisation of the population _ extent of the polarisation of the population debate with all of the population debate with all et ee— the population debate with all of us expected— the population debate with all of us expected to— the population debate with all of us expected to pick one side ent— of us expected to pick one side eht teeetee— of us expected to pick one side and despise the— of us expected to pick one side and despise the other. i said teet— and despise the other. i said teet teet— and despise the other. i said last week, and— and despise the other. i said last week, and i'll say again thet— last week, and i'll say again thet ee— last week, and i'll say again that one camp— last week, and i'll say again that one camp or— last week, and i'll say again that one camp or the other must be that one camp or the other must he utterty— that one camp or the other must be utterly wrong,— that one camp or the other must be utterly wrong, and as a eeeetee— be utterly wrong, and as a eeeetee ve— be utterly wrong, and as a species we urgently need to know vvhteh— species we urgently need to know vhteh vette— species we urgently need to know which would lead— species we urgently need to know which would lead us down the reed— which would lead us down the reet te— which would lead us down the reet te reh— which would lead us down the road to ruin. if— which would lead us down the road to ruin. if we— which would lead us down the road to ruin. if we let them. if the— road to ruin. if we let them. if the peeetetteh— road to ruin. if we let them. if the population debate is tehgereeety— the population debate is dangerously split, then so too is dangerously split, then so too he thet— dangerously split, then so too is that concerning climate , with is that concerning climate, with etee— is that concerning climate, with one side insisting— is that concerning climate, with one side insisting rising temperatures- one side insisting rising temperatures and sea levels eremtee— temperatures and sea levels eremtee eer— temperatures and sea levels promise our destruction and the ether— promise our destruction and the ether eeymg— promise our destruction and the other saying nothing of the sort is other saying nothing of the sort te tree— other saying nothing of the sort te tree 7— other saying nothing of the sort te tree hegem— other saying nothing of the sort is true .7 again, we— other saying nothing of the sort is true .7 again, we need to know is true? again, we need to know ent— is true? again, we need to know me ergehtty— is true? again, we need to know and urgently which camp has got it and urgently which camp has got tt vrehg— and urgently which camp has got tt vvrehg ent— and urgently which camp has got it wrong and it's— and urgently which camp has got it wrong and it's no longer good eheegh— it wrong and it's no longer good eheegh teet— it wrong and it's no longer good eheegh met te— it wrong and it's no longer good enough just to watch dissenters hehg— enough just to watch dissenters hemg heehtet— enough just to watch dissenters being hounded out of polite eeetety— being hounded out of polite eeetety thet— being hounded out of polite society that the _

being hounded out of polite society that the mainstream metre— society that the mainstream mette tere— society that the mainstream mette teee ee— society that the mainstream media laps up the talk of a verte— media laps up the talk of a vertt eh— media laps up the talk of a world on the— media laps up the talk of a world on the point of spontaneously combusting ehttrety— spontaneously combusting entirely because of activity by hmee— entirely because of activity by humans makes— entirely because of activity by humans makes it— entirely because of activity by humans makes it dangerously ttttteett— humans makes it dangerously ttttteett te— humans makes it dangerously difficult to ask— humans makes it dangerously difficult to ask questions far teee— difficult to ask questions far teee eeet— difficult to ask questions far less seek truthful answers . i'd less seek truthful answers. i'd go less seek truthful answers. i'd ge ee— less seek truthful answers. i'd ge ee ter— less seek truthful answers. i'd ge ee ter ee— less seek truthful answers. i'd ge ee ter ee te— less seek truthful answers. i'd go so far as to say— less seek truthful answers. i'd go so far as to say someone's lvind— go so far as to say someone's tymg eheet— go so far as to say someone's tymg eteet the— go so far as to say someone's lying about the climate delivery , lying— lying about the climate delivery , tymg te— lying about the climate delivery , tymg te the— lying about the climate delivery , lying to the people and eeehmg— , lying to the people and eeehmg e— , lying to the people and pushing a false narrative shaped to pushing a false narrative shaped te eeeee— pushing a false narrative shaped te teer— pushing a false narrative shaped to cause fear and— pushing a false narrative shaped to cause fear and assure mass eemettehee— to cause fear and assure mass compliance that— to cause fear and assure mass compliance that serves the htehttehe— compliance that serves the intentions of— compliance that serves the intentions of vested interests here— intentions of vested interests here m— intentions of vested interests here he the— intentions of vested interests here in the uk.— intentions of vested interests here in the uk. the met office hee— here in the uk. the met office hee prettetet— here in the uk. the met office has predicted the— here in the uk. the met office has predicted the sea level teete— has predicted the sea level eeett rree— has predicted the sea level could rise by— has predicted the sea level could rise by nearly four feet by the— could rise by nearly four feet by the eht— could rise by nearly four feet by the end et— could rise by nearly four feet by the end of the century, euttmg— by the end of the century, putting swathes of the country , putting swathes of the country, hetetmg— putting swathes of the country, metetmg eerte— putting swathes of the country, including parts of london, under veter— including parts of london, under veter eht— including parts of london, under water and other— including parts of london, under water and other experts warn of sea water and other experts warn of tevet— water and other experts warn of tevet reee— water and other experts warn of sea level rises of— water and other experts warn of sea level rises of ten feet if the— sea level rises of ten feet if the thwaites_ sea level rises of ten feet if the thwaites glacier in antarctica _ the thwaites glacier in antarctica collapses . so far, so antarctica collapses. so far, so eeteetreehte— antarctica collapses. so far, so catastrophic and _ antarctica collapses. so far, so catastrophic and yet massive mveetmeht— catastrophic and yet massive investment in— catastrophic and yet massive investment in property in london and investment in property in london eht h— investment in property in london me he tev— investment in property in london me he tev tymg— investment in property in london and in low lying cities around the verte— and in low lying cities around the world continues unabated . the world continues unabated. amt— the world continues unabated. amt whet— the world continues unabated. amt vhet eh— the world continues unabated. and what on earth are we to make of and what on earth are we to make et whet— and what on earth are we to make et vhet mtght— and what on earth are we to make of what might, bearing in mind memereemt— of what might, bearing in mind mainstream predictions of vheteeete— mainstream predictions of wholesale flooding, be regarded as wholesale flooding, be regarded ee e tevet— wholesale flooding, be regarded ee e tevet et— wholesale flooding, be regarded as a level of recklessness by

mveeeret— as a level of recklessness by investors bordering on the e— investors bordering on the insane ? actuaries calculate risk insane? actuaries calculate risk for insane? actuaries calculate risk ter heerehee— insane? actuaries calculate risk for insurance companies involved in for insurance companies involved th mertgegee— for insurance companies involved th mertgegee eht— for insurance companies involved in mortgages and loans for such property— in mortgages and loans for such property investment, and yet none is calling— property investment, and yet none is calling a— property investment, and yet none is calling a halt to vrttmg— none is calling a halt to vrttmg ett— none is calling a halt to writing off london, for example , as a suicidally_ writing off london, for example , as a suicidally bad risk , or , as a suicidally bad risk, or new— , as a suicidally bad risk, or new vert— , as a suicidally bad risk, or new vert er— , as a suicidally bad risk, or new york or other sea level three— new york or other sea level etttee eht— new york or other sea level cities and locations around the verte— cities and locations around the vertt. ae— cities and locations around the vertt. ae the— cities and locations around the world. as the moneymen are erghg— world. as the moneymen are ergmg ehy— world. as the moneymen are urging any imminent move away trem— urging any imminent move away trem the— urging any imminent move away from the coast— urging any imminent move away from the coast and— urging any imminent move away from the coast and to higher greene— from the coast and to higher greeht h— from the coast and to higher ground in land— from the coast and to higher ground in land ._ from the coast and to higher ground in land . last month, that ground in land. last month, that gemttte— ground in land. last month, that same quintile foundation eehttehet— same quintile foundation published a— same quintile foundation published a analysis of the teteet— published a analysis of the latest report— published a analysis of the latest report from the international panel on climate chehge.— international panel on climate chehge. the— international panel on climate change. the ipcc_ international panel on climate change. the ipcc , the body to change. the ipcc, the body to vvhteh— change. the ipcc, the body to vhteh meet— change. the ipcc, the body to which most governments around the verte— which most governments around the world look— which most governments around the world look for— which most governments around the world look for climate petty— the world look for climate policy advice _ the world look for climate policy advice on the topic of erettetet— policy advice on the topic of predicted rises— policy advice on the topic of predicted rises in sea level, the— predicted rises in sea level, the repert— predicted rises in sea level, the report says— predicted rises in sea level, the report says readings from tree— the report says readings from ttte geegee— the report says readings from tide gauges kit— the report says readings from tide gauges kit for monitoring sea tide gauges kit for monitoring tevet— tide gauges kit for monitoring sea level show— tide gauges kit for monitoring sea level show ,_ tide gauges kit for monitoring sea level show , quote, sea level show, quote, remarkably— sea level show, quote, remarkably linear behaviour for then— remarkably linear behaviour for theh e— remarkably linear behaviour for more than a century unquote . more than a century unquote. empty— more than a century unquote. stmety eut— more than a century unquote. simply put, despite doom laden prettettehe— simply put, despite doom laden predictions, the— simply put, despite doom laden predictions, the sea level has herety— predictions, the sea level has barely changed— predictions, the sea level has barely changed in the last hehtret— barely changed in the last hundred years— barely changed in the last hundred years . and while we, the hundred years. and while we, the geheret— hundred years. and while we, the geheret ehttre— hundred years. and while we, the general public, are— hundred years. and while we, the general public, are being

trtghtehet— general public, are being frightened out of our wits by tteeeter— frightened out of our wits by disaster mongering, those with the teeeeet— disaster mongering, those with the deepest pockets of all seem judging— the deepest pockets of all seem , judging by— the deepest pockets of all seem , judging by thetr— the deepest pockets of all seem , judging by their actions to herheer— , judging by their actions to herteer he— , judging by their actions to harbour no such— , judging by their actions to harbour no such worries as in zom— harbour no such worries as in 2017. climate— harbour no such worries as in 2017. climate crisis activist rem— 2017. climate crisis activist rem terry— 2017. climate crisis activist john kerry spent $11.7 million on john kerry spent $11.7 million eh e eerevvtmg— john kerry spent $11.7 million on a sprawling estate on the teeth— on a sprawling estate on the teeth eh— on a sprawling estate on the beach, on the— on a sprawling estate on the beach, on the beach in martha's vheyert— beach, on the beach in martha's vheyert m— beach, on the beach in martha's vineyard in 2020.— beach, on the beach in martha's vineyard in 2020. bill and hetmte— vineyard in 2020. bill and melinda gates— vineyard in 2020. bill and melinda gates spent $43 million on a massive house on the beach, on a massive house on the beach, eh the— on a massive house on the beach, eh the teeth— on a massive house on the beach, eh the teeth m— on a massive house on the beach, on the beach in del— on a massive house on the beach, on the beach in del mar , near on the beach in del mar, near sen— on the beach in del mar, near seh htege— on the beach in del mar, near seh htege. the— on the beach in del mar, near san diego. the obama family have met— san diego. the obama family have thetr evvh— san diego. the obama family have their own luxurious— san diego. the obama family have their own luxurious beachfront heme.— their own luxurious beachfront heme. vvheh— their own luxurious beachfront home. when climate alarmist al eere— home. when climate alarmist al here, he— home. when climate alarmist al here, he et— home. when climate alarmist al here, he et eh— home. when climate alarmist al gore, he of an inconvenient truth— gore, he of an inconvenient truth reh— gore, he of an inconvenient truth ter— gore, he of an inconvenient truth, ran for us— gore, he of an inconvenient truth, ran for us president in 2000,— truth, ran for us president in 2000, he— truth, ran for us president in 2000, he ee— truth, ran for us president in 2000, he was apparently worth teet— 2000, he was apparently worth met eht— 2000, he was apparently worth just $1.7 million.— 2000, he was apparently worth just $1.7 million. after decades of just $1.7 million. after decades et trevettmg— just $1.7 million. after decades of travelling the _ just $1.7 million. after decades of travelling the world in ertvete— of travelling the world in ertvete tete— of travelling the world in private jets to _ of travelling the world in private jets to frighten the vette— private jets to frighten the vtte eut— private jets to frighten the vtte eet et— private jets to frighten the wits out of the— private jets to frighten the wits out of the proles he has emeeeet— wits out of the proles he has amassed an estimated $330 mttttem — amassed an estimated $330 mttttem he— amassed an estimated $330 million. he owns multiple ereeerttee— million. he owns multiple properties, including an ocean vtev— properties, including an ocean the heme— properties, including an ocean the heme h— properties, including an ocean view home in montecito , view home in montecito, california,— view home in montecito, california, that he purchased in zero— california, that he purchased in zero ter— california, that he purchased in 2010 for nearly— california, that he purchased in 2010 for nearly $9 million. heyhe— 2010 for nearly $9 million. heyte theee— 2010 for nearly $9 million. maybe those people are so veetthy— maybe those people are so veetthy they— maybe those people are so wealthy they can contemplate vetehmg— wealthy they can contemplate watching such— wealthy they can contemplate watching such homes taken by the

he met— watching such homes taken by the waves in their lifetimes, thevvmg — waves in their lifetimes, knowing they - waves in their lifetimes, knowing they can afford to throw evvey—et- knowing they can afford to throw away—of dollarsi away tens of millions of dollars vttheet— away tens of millions of dollars without consequence, without ehettmg— without consequence, without ehettmg e— without consequence, without shedding a tear— without consequence, without shedding a tear ._ without consequence, without shedding a tear. but such eehtemet— shedding a tear. but such contempt for— shedding a tear. but such contempt for some is beyond the reeeh— contempt for some is beyond the reeeh et— contempt for some is beyond the reach of billions.— contempt for some is beyond the reach of billions. would hardly teet— reach of billions. would hardly teet geet— reach of billions. would hardly teet geet. the— reach of billions. would hardly look good. the dear old ipcc etee— look good. the dear old ipcc etee etetme— look good. the dear old ipcc also claims ,_ look good. the dear old ipcc also claims , quote, global also claims, quote, global temperatures— also claims, quote, global temperatures are more likely then— temperatures are more likely theh het— temperatures are more likely than not unprecedent . in the than not unprecedent. in the teet— than not unprecedent. in the teet htooo— than not unprecedent. in the last 125,000 years, according to the ctmteh— last 125,000 years, according to the clinton foundation, this tgheree— the clinton foundation, this tgheree the— the clinton foundation, this ignores the well—documented event— ignores the well—documented event called— ignores the well—documented event called the— ignores the well—documented event called the holocene thermet— event called the holocene thermal maximum . around 9800 to thermal maximum. around 9800 to stoo— thermal maximum. around 9800 to woo yeere— thermal maximum. around 9800 to etee yeere ege,— thermal maximum. around 9800 to 5700 years ago, when evidence eheve— 5700 years ago, when evidence shows temperatures were often htgher— shows temperatures were often htgher then— shows temperatures were often higher than now— shows temperatures were often higher than now in many parts of the vvertt— higher than now in many parts of the vertt the— higher than now in many parts of the world, the ipcc— higher than now in many parts of the world, the ipcc ignores theee— the world, the ipcc ignores those inconvenient millennia ettegether— those inconvenient millennia ettegether,— those inconvenient millennia altogether , as— those inconvenient millennia altogether , as though they had altogether, as though they had never happened— altogether, as though they had never happened for the more, eeeerthg— never happened for the more, eeeerthg te— never happened for the more, according to quintal, the ipcc tgheree— according to quintal, the ipcc ignored crucial— according to quintal, the ipcc ignored crucial peer reviewed theretere— ignored crucial peer reviewed literature showing that normalised _ literature showing that normalised disaster losses have teereeeet— normalised disaster losses have decreased since— normalised disaster losses have decreased since 1990 and that hemeh— decreased since 1990 and that human mortality— decreased since 1990 and that human mortality due to extreme vveether— human mortality due to extreme veether hee— human mortality due to extreme weather has decreased by more then— weather has decreased by more then este— weather has decreased by more than 95% since— weather has decreased by more than 95% since 1920. they eehthee— than 95% since 1920. they continue the _ than 95% since 1920. they continue the ipcc by cherry

etetmg— continue the ipcc by cherry etetmg trem — continue the ipcc by cherry picking from the literature drew the eeeeette— picking from the literature drew the opposite conclusions, etetmhg— the opposite conclusions, claiming increases in damage and mertettty— claiming increases in damage and mertettty tee— claiming increases in damage and mertettty tee te— claiming increases in damage and mortality due to anthropogenic ettmete— mortality due to anthropogenic climate change.— mortality due to anthropogenic climate change. farage, which is to climate change. farage, which is te eey— climate change. farage, which is te eey teteet— climate change. farage, which is te eey eeeeet ty— climate change. farage, which is to say caused by us humans. ctmteh— to say caused by us humans. clinton insists— to say caused by us humans. clinton insists that the latest hec— clinton insists that the latest ttcc repert— clinton insists that the latest ipcc report rewrote climate htetery— ipcc report rewrote climate history emphasises an implausible- history emphasises an implausible worst case scenario as implausible worst case scenario ee e hege— implausible worst case scenario ee e huge htee— implausible worst case scenario ee e huge htee m— implausible worst case scenario as a huge bias in favour of bad eht— as a huge bias in favour of bad news and against— as a huge bias in favour of bad news and against good news and keep5_ news and against good news and teeee the— news and against good news and teeee the geet— news and against good news and keeps the good news out of the eummery— keeps the good news out of the eummery ter— keeps the good news out of the summary for policymakers. keeps the good news out of the summary for policymakers . bear summary for policymakers. bear in summary for policymakers. bear th mmt— summary for policymakers. bear th mht tt-e— summary for policymakers. bear in mind it's the— summary for policymakers. bear in mind it's the summary for petteymetere— in mind it's the summary for policymakers that governments like policymakers that governments ttte-reet— policymakers that governments like-read and— policymakers that governments like read and upon which like ours read and upon which teee— like ours read and upon which teee gettetee— like ours read and upon which base policies like— like ours read and upon which base policies like net zero outhtet— base policies like net zero quintal claims— base policies like net zero quintal claims to show biases eht— quintal claims to show biases eht h— quintal claims to show biases and errors in every one of the hec— and errors in every one of the ttcc reeerte— and errors in every one of the ipcc reports. 13— and errors in every one of the ipcc reports. 13 chapters, for exempte— ipcc reports. 13 chapters, for example .— ipcc reports. 13 chapters, for example , e— ipcc reports. 13 chapters, for example , a review article example, a review article euhttehet— example, a review article published in— example, a review article published in 2020 showed that 52 out published in 2020 showed that 52 eut et— published in 2020 showed that 52 eut et se— published in 2020 showed that 52 eut et te peer— published in 2020 showed that 52 out of 53 peer reviewed papers teetmg— out of 53 peer reviewed papers teethg vvtth— out of 53 peer reviewed papers dealing with normalised disaster teeeee— dealing with normalised disaster losses saw no increase in harms thet— losses saw no increase in harms thet eeutt— losses saw no increase in harms thet eeutt te— losses saw no increase in harms that could be attributed to ettmete— that could be attributed to climate change. the ipcc htghttghtet— climate change. the ipcc highlighted the single paper thet— highlighted the single paper that claimed— highlighted the single paper that claimed an increase in teeeee— that claimed an increase in teeeee .— that claimed an increase in losses . that— that claimed an increase in losses . that paper that claimed an increase in losses. that paper is unsurprisingly flawed, but its

cherry— unsurprisingly flawed, but its eherry etetmg— unsurprisingly flawed, but its cherry picking by the ipcc euggeete— cherry picking by the ipcc euggeete they— cherry picking by the ipcc suggests they found its conclusions— suggests they found its conclusions irresistible . but conclusions irresistible. but the— conclusions irresistible. but the hec— conclusions irresistible. but the ttcc te— conclusions irresistible. but the ipcc is deafening . the ipcc is deafening. contribution- the ipcc is deafening. contribution to the debate reehee— contribution to the debate reaches the _ contribution to the debate reaches the highest places. ahteme— reaches the highest places. antonio guterres, secretary—general of the antonio guterres,— secretary—general of the united hettehe— secretary—general of the united hettehe eert— secretary—general of the united nations, said recently. we are on nations, said recently. we are eh e htghvey— nations, said recently. we are eh e htghvey te— nations, said recently. we are on a highway to climate hell, the— on a highway to climate hell, the ctmteh— on a highway to climate hell, the clinton foundation counters vtth— the clinton foundation counters vvtth eh— the clinton foundation counters with an in—depth_ the clinton foundation counters with an in—depth look at the mertettty. — with an in—depth look at the mortality. data— with an in—depth look at the mortality. data shows that ettmete— mortality. data shows that climate related deaths are at an all climate related deaths are at an ett ttme— climate related deaths are at an ett ttme tev— climate related deaths are at an ett ttme tev .— climate related deaths are at an all time low . so— climate related deaths are at an all time low . so what are we? all time low. so what are we? emmery— all time low. so what are we? ordinary mortals— all time low. so what are we? ordinary mortals supposed to mete— ordinary mortals supposed to mete et— ordinary mortals supposed to mete et ett— ordinary mortals supposed to make of all this— ordinary mortals supposed to make of all this in a peer revtevvet— make of all this in a peer reviewed paper- make of all this in a peer reviewed paper in 2020? teehemtet— reviewed paper in 2020? economist bjorn lomborg euhttehet— economist bjorn lomborg published data supporting an eettmtette— published data supporting an optimistic reading of the worldwide— optimistic reading of the worldwide reduction of climate retetet— worldwide reduction of climate related death.— worldwide reduction of climate related death. and yet the ipcc eheee— related death. and yet the ipcc eheee te— related death. and yet the ipcc chose to ignore— related death. and yet the ipcc chose to ignore it.— related death. and yet the ipcc chose to ignore it. clinton etteg— chose to ignore it. clinton ettet. the— chose to ignore it. clinton added. the strategy of the ipcc te— added. the strategy of the ipcc te he— added. the strategy of the ipcc seems to be to— added. the strategy of the ipcc seems to be to hide any good eheut— seems to be to hide any good news about climate change and hype— news about climate change and hype ehythmg— news about climate change and hype anything bad. the ipcc is etttetet— hype anything bad. the ipcc is etttetet te— hype anything bad. the ipcc is addicted to its— hype anything bad. the ipcc is addicted to its highest emissions— addicted to its highest emissions scenario in recent yee— emissions scenario in recent ye eevet— emissions scenario in recent years, several papers have demonstrated— years, several papers have demonstrated that this scenario is demonstrated that this scenario te tmeteuettte— demonstrated that this scenario is implausible and should not be ueet— is implausible and should not be ueet ter— is implausible and should not be ueet ter gettey— is implausible and should not be used for policy purposes . deep

used for policy purposes. deep merte— used for policy purposes. deep hette the— used for policy purposes. deep inside the report,— used for policy purposes. deep inside the report, the ipcc acknowledges— inside the report, the ipcc acknowledges that this scenario has acknowledges that this scenario hee e— acknowledges that this scenario hee e tev— acknowledges that this scenario has a low likelihood this eruetet— has a low likelihood this crucial remark, however, was not htghttghtet— crucial remark, however, was not htghttghtet h— crucial remark, however, was not highlighted in the— crucial remark, however, was not highlighted in the summary for petteymetere— highlighted in the summary for policymakers so— highlighted in the summary for policymakers so that those tmeerteht— policymakers so that those important audiences were left rte— important audiences were left unaware. it's the _ important audiences were left unaware. it's the view of the ctmteh — unaware. it's the view of the clinton foundation that nothing teee— clinton foundation that nothing teee then— clinton foundation that nothing teee then the— clinton foundation that nothing less than the wholesale reform of less than the wholesale reform et the — less than the wholesale reform et the hec— less than the wholesale reform of the ipcc is— less than the wholesale reform of the ipcc is now— less than the wholesale reform of the ipcc is now required eeeettteetty— of the ipcc is now required specifically to _ of the ipcc is now required specifically to include alternative _ specifically to include alternative views. if for some reason, such inclusion of ttttereht— reason, such inclusion of different views- reason, such inclusion of different views is unacceptable, they— different views is unacceptable, they eey— different views is unacceptable, they eey the— different views is unacceptable, they say the ipcc— different views is unacceptable, they say the ipcc should be dismantled. _ they say the ipcc should be dismantled. if— they say the ipcc should be dismantled. if we really aren't in dismantled. if we really aren't th the— dismantled. if we really aren't th the meet— dismantled. if we really aren't in the midst of— dismantled. if we really aren't in the midst of a— dismantled. if we really aren't in the midst of a climate crisis , if in the midst of a climate crisis , tt ee— in the midst of a climate crisis , tt reet— in the midst of a climate crisis , if one road leads— in the midst of a climate crisis , if one road leads to the unnecessary dismantling of our etvttteetteh— unnecessary dismantling of our civilisation while— unnecessary dismantling of our civilisation while the other teete— civilisation while the other teete te — civilisation while the other leads to salvation, isn't it eruetet— leads to salvation, isn't it crucial that— leads to salvation, isn't it crucial that we- leads to salvation, isn't it crucial that we pause for a memet— crucial that we pause for a memet te— crucial that we pause for a moment to consider all the facts not moment to consider all the facts het tuet— moment to consider all the facts het ruet theee— moment to consider all the facts not just those serving one side? it not just those serving one side? tt teete— not just those serving one side? tt teete te— not just those serving one side? tt teete te me— not just those serving one side? it feels to me as— not just those serving one side? it feels to me as though the vvertt-e— it feels to me as though the world's populations have teveteeet— world's populations have developed a— world's populations have developed a dangerously high teterehee— developed a dangerously high tolerance for— developed a dangerously high tolerance for lies— developed a dangerously high tolerance for lies like life terme— tolerance for lies like life forms that— tolerance for lies like life forms that have adapted to live in forms that have adapted to live he eh— forms that have adapted to live in an environment— forms that have adapted to live in an environment so toxic it eheutt— in an environment so toxic it eheutt te— in an environment so toxic it should be lethal— in an environment so toxic it should be lethal and contain teet— should be lethal and contain rag, ee— should be lethal and contain fact, as with— should be lethal and contain fact, as with those that somehow eurvtve — fact, as with those that somehow eurvtve eh — fact, as with those that somehow eurvtve eh the— fact, as with those that somehow survive on the seabed among vente— survive on the seabed among vehte eeevmg— survive on the seabed among vents spewing all manner of

heteehe— vents spewing all manner of heteehe .— vents spewing all manner of reteehe , tee— vents spewing all manner of poisons , too many are oblivious poisons, too many are oblivious to poisons, too many are oblivious te hev— poisons, too many are oblivious te hev much— poisons, too many are oblivious to how much they're swallowing and to how much they're swallowing eht hreethmg— to how much they're swallowing and breathing in.— to how much they're swallowing and breathing in. these are existential— and breathing in. these are existential concerns that will tetermhe — existential concerns that will determine the _ existential concerns that will determine the quality of the tvee— determine the quality of the ttvee et— determine the quality of the lives of our— determine the quality of the lives of our children and grehtehttt— lives of our children and grandchild on- lives of our children and grandchild on lead. if this mass of grandchild on lead. if this mass et heeeteeety— grandchild on lead. if this mass of hopelessly polarised shouting metehee— of hopelessly polarised shouting metehee te— of hopelessly polarised shouting matches is what— of hopelessly polarised shouting matches is what passes for tetete— matches is what passes for tehete .— matches is what passes for tehete , tt— matches is what passes for debate , if it's— matches is what passes for debate , if it's being driven and debate, if it's being driven and or debate, if it's being driven and er mutttet— debate, if it's being driven and or muddied not— debate, if it's being driven and or muddied not for the good of the mem— or muddied not for the good of the mehy, hut— or muddied not for the good of the many, but for— or muddied not for the good of the many, but for the enrichment and empowerment— the many, but for the enrichment and empowerment of the few, then theee— and empowerment of the few, then theee et— and empowerment of the few, then theee et ue— and empowerment of the few, then those of us with— and empowerment of the few, then those of us with voices must teee— those of us with voices must teee eh— those of us with voices must keep on demanding something much— keep on demanding something much much— keep on demanding something much, much better . that's my much, much better. that's my eemteh— much, much better. that's my eehteh .— much, much better. that's my opinion . you're— much, much better. that's my opinion . you're free to opinion. you're free to tteegree— opinion. you're free to disagree. of- opinion. you're free to disagree. of course you are . disagree. of course you are. teee— disagree. of course you are. keep yeur— disagree. of course you are. keep your tweets and emails eemhg— keep your tweets and emails coming through— keep your tweets and emails coming through the show. you can emet— coming through the show. you can email gbviews@gbnews.uk and you can email gbviews@gbnews.uk and you tveet— email gbviews@gbnews.uk and you tveet me— email gbviews@gbnews.uk and you tveet me ee— email gbviews@gbnews.uk and you can tweet me as well— email gbviews@gbnews.uk and you can tweet me as well at gb news. amt— can tweet me as well at gb news. amt tu— can tweet me as well at gb news. amt ttt try— can tweet me as well at gb news. amt ttt try te— can tweet me as well at gb news. amt r-tt try te get— can tweet me as well at gb news. and i'll try to get to— can tweet me as well at gb news. and i'll try to get to your comments later in the show. remmg— comments later in the show. remmg me— comments later in the show. joining me throughout is the ever effervescent ingrid tarrant . thet-e— ever effervescent ingrid tarrant . thet-e yeu— ever effervescent ingrid tarrant . that's you, ingrid , right

. that's you, ingrid, right there.— . that's you, ingrid, right there. coming- . that's you, ingrid, right there. coming up, we'll be teteet— there. coming up, we'll be remet ty— there. coming up, we'll be remet by the— there. coming up, we'll be joined by the author of the heret— joined by the author of the heret ceee— joined by the author of the moral case for— joined by the author of the moral case for fossil fuels. tre-tt— moral case for fossil fuels. vve-tt he— moral case for fossil fuels. we'll be discussing the future of we'll be discussing the future et teeett— we'll be discussing the future of fossil fuels— we'll be discussing the future of fossil fuels and the planet. hut— of fossil fuels and the planet. hut hgrtt— of fossil fuels and the planet. but ingrid, what— of fossil fuels and the planet. but ingrid, what do you make of vhet— but ingrid, what do you make of vhet .— but ingrid, what do you make of vhet . het— but ingrid, what do you make of vhet . me te— but ingrid, what do you make of what i had to say— but ingrid, what do you make of what i had to say about climate 7 what i had to say about climate t tt— what i had to say about climate t tt vett— what i had to say about climate t tt uett ve— what i had to say about climate ? it well, we are— what i had to say about climate ? it well, we are so- what i had to say about climate ? it well, we are so on- what i had to say about climate 7 lift" what i had to say about climate 7 it" ? it well, we are so on the same page and this goes back a long, long i was so interested long time. i was so interested in biology, zoology life. i grew up in norway mostly so very close to nature. so i understood it and i very much respected it. so this isn't just something that i've been exposed to or experienced this now . also, i experienced this now. also, i was a huge fan of david bellamy's and i loved everything that he said. i understood it. i got it because that was the sort of thing that i was learning at school, studying at school, and took beyond . i'd get the new took it beyond. i'd get the new scientists and things like that. so just not a superficial so it's just not a superficial interest that at all. interest that i have at all. what what is actually, i mean, i've got so much stuff which of course would be another like we

haven't i do agree haven't got the time. i do agree with you know the with that. but you know the temperatures now , there was an temperatures now, there was an increase in temperature between nine five and eighteen nine and or five and eighteen centigrade. was back centigrade. this was going back to the pliocene, eocene thermal maximum . there was a time, of maximum. there was a time, of course, when it wiped out the earth. but this is completely natural. and actually , if there natural. and actually, if there is any interference, it's us that's polluting our policies or their policies and everything. and actually there's inconel venient proof. and i'm a huge fan of graham hancock, who has done fantastic tests . that's done fantastic tests. that's pooh poohed. of course it will be because it doesn't agree with what the scientists say. are they getting the money for it and everything? and also another man carlson , and man called randall carlson, and he is really kind of like nerdy. he's like an anorak. he's got figures. he's like kind of an einstein who'd put it on a blackboard, which i really don't understand. and but people this reminds me of sage actually. they're not listening to the experts. you make, experts. what do you make, though, in which only

though, of the way in which only one a is deemed one side is a is deemed appropriate the other side appropriate and the other side is just it's just shouted down. it's just dismissed. i know we're all conspiracy theorists . we're all conspiracy theorists. well, the thing is, we should be used to this by now because we had exactly the with covid. had exactly the same with covid. they the people that they employed, like the whities, you know, all the on stage, know, all the people on stage, all that lot. they were just following. they were doing what they but when got they were told. but when you got they were told. but when you got the amazing say, the amazing people like, say, robert malone , karl hennessy, robert malone, karl hennessy, mike layton, just to name a few of these brilliant, brilliant people saying, actually, do you know what? that's not quite right. but we've got proof. and that's what i'm saying. it's the inconvenient they don't inconvenient truth. they don't want. we need other voices. want. we need the other voices. hut— want. we need the other voices. hut-treet— want. we need the other voices. but-break already,- we need the other voices. but break already, after but on a break already, after vvhteh— but on a break already, after vhteh ee— but on a break already, after vhteh ee|eey,— but on a break already, after which asisay,-up,l but on a break already, after. which asisay,-up, we'll which as i say, coming up, we'll be-bv_ which as i say, coming up, we'll tee-try the— which as i say, coming up, we'll be-by the author- which as i say, coming up, we'll be by the author the be joined by the author of the heret— be joined by the author of the heret teee— be joined by the author of the moral case-fossil- be joined by the author of the moral case fossil fuels, moral case for fossil fuels, etee— moral case for fossil fuels, etee-amt - moral case for fossil fuels, alec-and we'll- moral case for fossil fuels, alec and we'll be alec epstein. and we'll be tteeueehg— alec epstein. and we'll be discussing the— alec epstein. and we'll be discussing the future of fossil tuete— discussing the future of fossil tuete eht— discussing the future of fossil fuels and the— discussing the future of fossil fuels and the planet. stay with

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iwelcome. news radio. welcome back to neil oliver live as earlier tonight, live as i said earlier tonight, i'm preoccupied with need to i'm preoccupied with the need to understand the truth of what is or not happening to the or is not happening to the climate of our planet as a species. we or are we not species. are we or are we not changing the climate by among other things, burning oil, coal and natural gas? and if we are , and natural gas? and if we are, does our technology enable us to deal with the consequences of those actions maintaining those actions while maintaining our civilisation and ways of life? joining me now is alex epstein, commentator and author of the moral case for fossil fuels and also fossil future. alex, good evening . thanks for alex, good evening. thanks for joining me . hey, neil. alex, joining me. hey, neil. alex, what do you make , first of all, what do you make, first of all, of the claim that we are in a climate crisis ? i think it ends climate crisis? i think it ends up hehg— climate crisis? i think it ends up hemg the— climate crisis? i think it ends up being the exact— rte if.” 57 i think it ends up being the exact opposite heeuee— up being the exact opposite because so the— up being the exact opposite because so the way i measure whether— because so the way i measure whether something is a crisis is vhete— whether something is a crisis is vvhet-e the— whether something is a crisis is what's the state— whether something is a crisis is what's the state of— whether something is a crisis is what's the state of human life at what's the state of human life et e— what's the state of human life et e gtveh— what's the state of human life at a given time.— what's the state of human life at a given time. and so for ettmete— at a given time. and so for grmgge, ve— at a given time. and so for climate, we can- at a given time. and so for climate, we can look back 100 yeere— climate, we can look back 100 yeere ege— climate, we can look back 100 yeere ege eht— climate, we can look back 100 years ago and climate was far

tehgereue— years ago and climate was far more dangerous to human beings. so more dangerous to human beings. se ve— more dangerous to human beings. se yeu— more dangerous to human beings. se yeu thew,— more dangerous to human beings. so we, you know, we can measure the rate— so we, you know, we can measure the rete et— so we, you know, we can measure the rate of climate— so we, you know, we can measure the rate of climate related tteeeter— the rate of climate related disaster deaths. so how many eeeete— disaster deaths. so how many eeeete-tymg— disaster deaths. so how many people dying storms and people are dying from storms and fleet— people are dying from storms and tteet-heet— people are dying from storms and flood-heat, etcetera- people are dying from storms and flood heat, etcetera ? flood extreme heat, etcetera? amt— flood extreme heat, etcetera? amt thet— flood extreme heat, etcetera? and that rate— flood extreme heat, etcetera? and that rate has— flood extreme heat, etcetera? and that rate has gone down by eeve— and that rate has gone down by ege. ver— and that rate has gone down by ege. the— and that rate has gone down by 98% over the last— and that rate has gone down by 98% over the last hundred years . se— 98% over the last hundred years . se ve— 98% over the last hundred years . so we haven't— 98% over the last hundred years . so we haven't taken a tehgereue— . so we haven't taken a dangerous a— . so we haven't taken a dangerous a safe climate and mete— dangerous a safe climate and mete e— dangerous a safe climate and made a dangerous we've taken a tehgereue— made a dangerous we've taken a dangerous climate— made a dangerous we've taken a dangerous climate and made it eete— dangerous climate and made it eete. amt— dangerous climate and made it safe. and actually, one of the mere— safe. and actually, one of the number one things that's made it eete— number one things that's made it eete te— number one things that's made it eete he the— number one things that's made it safe is the supposed climate vtttetm— safe is the supposed climate villain, fossil— safe is the supposed climate villain, fossil fuels, fossil tuete— villain, fossil fuels, fossil fuels powered— villain, fossil fuels, fossil fuels powered heating and fuels powered the heating and air conditioning— fuels powered the heating and air conditioning systems. they ettevv— air conditioning systems. they ettev-huttt— air conditioning systems. they allow build sturdy allow us to build sturdy huttthge— allow us to build sturdy buildings. power storm buildings. they power storm vemmg— buildings. they power storm warning systems. they power trrtgetteh— warning systems. they power trrtgetteh-te- warning systems. they power irrigation to alleviate irrigation systems to alleviate treught— irrigation systems to alleviate treught-eh— irrigation systems to alleviate drought-on and- irrigation systems to alleviate drought on and on. and so drought and on and on. and so eeeete— drought and on and on. and so eeeete heve— drought and on and on. and so people have this— drought and on and on. and so people have this totally backwards— people have this totally backwards .— people have this totally backwards . and the people have this totally- backwards . and -the key backwards. and i think the key is backwards. and i think the key here-— backwards. and i think the key is-are looking- backwards. and i think the key is-are looking at- backwards. and i think the key is are looking at the is people are looking at the eerth— is people are looking at the eerth-trem— is people are looking at the earth, from what i call earth, not from what i call a humeh— earth, not from what i call a human flourishing perspective, not human flourishing perspective, hettrem— human flourishing perspective, het trem e— human flourishing perspective, not from a perspective of how geet— not from a perspective of how geet-ter— not from a perspective of how good .for human- not from a perspective of how good for human beings, but good it is for human beings, but rether— good it is for human beings, but rether-ehtt — good it is for human beings, but rather-anti human- good it is for human beings, but rather anti human impact rather from an anti human impact peregeettve— rather from an anti human impact perspective-belief— rather from an anti human impact perspective. belief that perspective. the belief that humer— perspective. the belief that humeh-te- perspective. the belief that human-is bad- perspective. the belief that human is bad and human impact is bad and theretere— human impact is bad and therefore, if— human impact is bad and therefore, if we've impacted the ettmete— therefore, if we've impacted the ettmete thet— therefore, if we've impacted the climate that must— therefore, if we've impacted the climate that must bad. i do climate that must be bad. i do egree— climate that must be bad. i do egree-tmeeet— climate that must be bad. i do agree-impact of- agree with impact of the grmgge, — agree with impact of the climate,-our- agree with impact of the climate, our overall impact climate, but our overall impact on climate, but our overall impact eh the— climate, but our overall impact eh the vvertt— climate, but our overall impact on the world, including climate, is on the world, including climate, te heretthty—

on the world, including climate, is incredibly positive . ' ”ti: is incredibly positive. are you seem— is incredibly positive. are you eeemg ther— is incredibly positive. are you seeing then that even if our ways of accessing the cheapest energy, even if oil and gas are causing changes , that it's still causing changes, that it's still better to keep going and exploit the advantages of those energy streams provide to tackle the predictable consequences . yeah, predictable consequences. yeah, for sure. i mean, i think- predictable consequences. yeah, for sure. i mean, i think of- yeah, for sure. i mean, i think of it hte— for sure. i mean, i think of it ttte e— for sure. i mean, i think of it like a prescription drug. 4:3. like a prescription drug. you went— like a prescription drug. you went te— like a prescription drug. you want to carefully— like a prescription drug. you want to carefully weigh the benefits and the side effects, including the negative side effects. and what you see you were mentioning before the ipcc, the intergovernmental on the intergovernmental panel on climate change. i did my own analysis and you can see analysis of that and you can see just read in a common sense just read it in a common sense way. hey, we're thinking way. ask, hey, if we're thinking about side effects about the side effects on climate, need at them climate, we need to look at them with and that and even with precision and that and even handedness. so we need to look at both negative and positive. we to be precise. you can we need to be precise. you can see all sorts of huge exaggerate options, including of options, including some of the ones mentioned. can see ones you mentioned. you can see a ignoring positive a total ignoring of any positive side including side effects, including the benefits warming. a world benefits of warming. in a world where more people die from

where far more people die from cold heat , totally cold than from heat, totally ignonng cold than from heat, totally ignoring of ignoring the benefits of greening . but the important greening. but the most important benefit ignoring is benefit they're ignoring is energy. makes energy. yet energy makes everything better. so don't just say, hey, climate change isn't as bad as you think. i say fossil fuels have made everything including everything better, including climate. if you look at it from a perspective, you a human perspective, if you believe human impact is evil, the best earth is one without us, then you think of it as a climate crisis. otherwise it's actually climate renaissance . actually a climate renaissance. what the what is the what is the what is the ereeeeete— what is the what is the prospect? what is the likely tete— prospect? what is the likely tete et— prospect? what is the likely tete et the — prospect? what is the likely fate of the billions , let's say, fate of the billions, let's say, in fate of the billions, let's say, he the— fate of the billions, let's say, in the poorest— fate of the billions, let's say, in the poorest parts of the atrteeh— in the poorest parts of the african continent? for example, if african continent? for example, h we— african continent? for example, h we meee— african continent? for example, if we press ahead— african continent? for example, if we press ahead and take away hytreeertehe— if we press ahead and take away hydrocarbons, what is the short to hydrocarbons, what is the short te mettum — hydrocarbons, what is the short to medium term— hydrocarbons, what is the short to medium term prospect for theee— to medium term prospect for those billions— to medium term prospect for those billions of— to medium term prospect for those billions of the poorest ? those billions of the poorest? vett— those billions of the poorest? uett yeu— those billions of the poorest? vvett you the— those billions of the poorest? well, you can look— those billions of the poorest? well, you can look at- those billions of the poorest? well, you can look at it- those billions of the poorest? well, you can look at it from at least two perspectives. so one is just the current state is apocalyptic in my view. so people like if you and i woke up one day and we lived in sub—saharan africa, you know,

less than $2 a day, which it is many parts of there like we would consider that the apocalypse , right? we would apocalypse, right? we would think the world has ended. it'd be a hell of a lot worse than a bad storm coming through our neighbourhood or wave neighbourhood or a heat wave that we don't like or a winter storm like that storm that we don't like that somehow gets blamed on global warming like view poverty warming like so i view poverty as view the world as apocalyptic. i view the world as apocalyptic. i view the world as unliveable by standards as unliveable by our standards for the people. for at least half the people. i mean, we have 6 billion people who use an amount of energy that you would consider totally you and i would consider totally unaccept. most in our unaccept. and most people in our countries totally countries would consider totally unacceptable. the unacceptable. so my view is the current without using current state without using more energy tragedy . we now what energy is a tragedy. we now what we have is instead of people recognising the current state and the need for far more energy , have whose , you have people whose overriding priority is get rid of fossil fuels in the next 27 years and that provides 80% of the world's energy today include virtually all the energy that has lifted people out of poverty, including china and india, where you've lifted in recent decades. china, chinese life expectancy has gone up by

ten years. india and by 60 years. and this is hugely due to industrialisation powered by fossil fuels. so it is such a cruel anti human movement to take an energy poor world and say, hey, how do we make it even more poor? and then more energy poor? and then pretend, solar panels pretend, oh yeah, solar panels and turbines are somehow and wind turbines are somehow going to do it them. but going to do it for them. but it's never worked anyone. it's never worked for anyone. but willing use but we're willing to use billions of our own billions of people as our own little experiment. alex bear with while i invite my studio with me while i invite my studio guest join in. ingrid, how do guest to join in. ingrid, how do you— guest to join in. ingrid, how do yeu reeete— guest to join in. ingrid, how do you react? that's— guest to join in. ingrid, how do you react? that's an— g " " ingrid, how do you react? that's an unfamiliar the— you react? that's an unfamiliar line-argument,— you react? that's an unfamiliar line-argument,-it?- you react? that's an unfamiliar line argument, it? that line of argument, isn't it? that etee— line of argument, isn't it? that ate te— line of argument, isn't it? that alex is promoting.— line of argument, isn't it? that alex is promoting. there that we eheutt— alex is promoting. there that we eheutt eee— alex is promoting. there that we should see the— alex is promoting. there that we should see the world as a as a threetehhg— should see the world as a as a threatening place— should see the world as a as a threatening place and it's our etttgetteh— threatening place and it's our ehttgetteh te— threatening place and it's our obligation to our— threatening place and it's our obligation to our fellow humankind— obligation to our fellow humankind and yeah, to exploit a ttte— humankind and yeah, to exploit a resource like hydrocarbons , to resource like hydrocarbons, to let resource like hydrocarbons, to tet the— resource like hydrocarbons, to let the world, _ resource like hydrocarbons, to let the world, to _ resource like hydrocarbons, to let the world, to let those reputettehe— let the world, to let those populations cope with an umrtehtty— populations cope with an unfriendly world. yeah well, yeure— unfriendly world. yeah well, yeure tettmg— unfriendly world. yeah well, you're talking about sort of tuet— you're talking about sort of mu eteymg— you're talking about sort of just staying with the fossil tuete — just staying with the fossil tuete the — just staying with the fossil fuels, the dirty— just staying with the fossil fuels, the dirty fuels as people eeu— fuels, the dirty fuels as people eett tt. — fuels, the dirty fuels as people eett tt. te— fuels, the dirty fuels as people call it. is that— fuels, the dirty fuels as people call it. is that what- fuels, the dirty fuels as people call it. is that what you're meaning? yes, in that way, yeah. it's i just don't get it. it's not a dirty fuel. there's a lot

of by—products. but everything, evenin of by—products. but everything, even in making what is supposed to be clean energy , relies on to be clean energy, relies on oil and the fossil fuels. in any case. so i don't get where they're really coming from because you can't eradicate them. and it is interesting, isn't it, that sort of like germany that was like, you know, leading this whole net zero thing or one of the main ones leading it, you know, they want to go back to mining coal. china is back to mining coal. is going back to mining coal. their their natural their their their natural resource we've got to resource is. so we've got to we've got to look at you know, another thing i just want to say this. when you think how is this possible that it's going up, up, up a few years ago the cars up when a few years ago the cars were belching out sooty fuel . it were belching out sooty fuel. it was oil, it was petrol, all that sort combustible fuel sort of thing. combustible fuel . there was lead in it all those things. so surely at that time it would have it wouldn't be going up now. it'd be going down. it. alex. down. yes we've moved it. alex. alex while i still have you, what do you make of the way in which the greening that is a

consequence of co2 is disregarded ? you know, it seems disregarded? you know, it seems to disregarded? you know, it seems te me— disregarded? you know, it seems te me thet— disregarded? you know, it seems te me thet e— disregarded? you know, it seems to me that a planet— r: 51159? 3:7 you know, it seems to me that a planet becoming greener— to me that a planet becoming greeher eht— to me that a planet becoming greener and more— to me that a planet becoming greener and more fertile . well, greener and more fertile. well, vhetever-e— greener and more fertile. well, whatever's causing it has to be at whatever's causing it has to be et teeet— whatever's causing it has to be at least considered as at least at least considered as at least e eerttet— at least considered as at least e eerttet geee— at least considered as at least e eerttet geet . — at least considered as at least a partial good . , at least considered as at least a partial good . / a partial good. yeah, i think this comes down to philosophy. so my background is first and teremeet— so my background is first and teremeet, ee— so my background is first and foremost, as a— so my background is first and foremost, as a philosopher. and then— foremost, as a philosopher. and then her— foremost, as a philosopher. and then teter .— foremost, as a philosopher. and then later i became an energy expert— then later i became an energy expert because _ then later i became an energy expert because i— then later i became an energy expert because i saw the thhthg— expert because i saw the thmtmg h— expert because i saw the thinking in this field was reetty— thinking in this field was reetty-t- thinking in this field was really-i think. thinking in this field was. really-i think the thinking in this field was- really-i think the key really bad. and i think the key thmg— really bad. and i think the key ththg te— really bad. and i think the key ththg te vhet— really bad. and i think the key thing is what is— really bad. and i think the key thing is what is the standard by vhteh— thing is what is the standard by vhteh vere— thing is what is the standard by which we're measuring how good the-heeeuee— which we're measuring how good the-because your- the earth is? because your etehtert— the earth is? because your standard-metric. standard or your metric determines— standard or your metric determines much. and as determines so much. and as i htteetet— determines so much. and as i indicated,-most- determines so much. and as i indicated, most people indicated, i think most people are indicated, i think most people ere—the— indicated, i think most people are—the earth,- indicated, i think most people are—the earth, at. are measuring the earth, at teeet—ere- are measuring the earth, at- least_are measuring least most leaders are measuring the-hy— least most leaders are measuring the-try eh— least most leaders are measuring the-by an-human- the earth by an anti human tmeeet— the earth by an anti human impact standard. view impact standard. so their view is impact standard. so their view te-tmeeet— impact standard. so their view te-tmeeet te— impact standard. so their view is-impact is bad- impact standard. so their view is impact is bad and is human impact is bad and ehythmg— is human impact is bad and ehythmg ve— is human impact is bad and anything we do— is human impact is bad and anything we do is bad. and this is anything we do is bad. and this he hev— anything we do is bad. and this he hev they— anything we do is bad. and this is how they can— anything we do is bad. and this is how they can not care about the— is how they can not care about the teet— is how they can not care about the teet thet— is how they can not care about the fact that we're— is how they can not care about the fact that we're making the eerth— the fact that we're making the eerth greener— the fact that we're making the earth greener by— the fact that we're making the earth greener by the by—product of earth greener by the by—product et eur— earth greener by the by—product et teeett— earth greener by the by—product of our fossil fuel— earth greener by the by—product of our fossil fuel emissions teeuee— of our fossil fuel emissions heeuee et— of our fossil fuel emissions because of our— of our fossil fuel emissions because of our fossil fuel use, heeuee— because of our fossil fuel use, heeuee tt-e— because of our fossil fuel use, because it's viewed as if humans do because it's viewed as if humans te tt— because it's viewed as if humans te tt .— because it's viewed as if humans te tt , tt-e— because it's viewed as if humans te tt , tt-e tet.— because it's viewed as if humans do it , it's bad. and— because it's viewed as if humans do it, it's bad. and this is i het— do it, it's bad. and this is i het e— do it, it's bad. and this is i het e tehg— do it, it's bad. and this is i had a long conversation with rerteh— had a long conversation with jordan peterson— had a long conversation with jordan peterson his show

jordan peterson on his show eteut— jordan peterson on his show eteut thre— jordan peterson on his show about this. and— jordan peterson on his show about this. and one of the thmge— about this. and one of the thhge .— about this. and one of the things i tried— about this. and one of the things i tried to stress is the green—tent- things i tried to stress is the green—isn't about| things i tried to stress is the. green—isn't about the green movement isn't about the etehet—ee- planet being as green as peeettte— planet being as green as possible. about planet being as green as- possible.-about-planet possible. it's about the planet hemg— possible. it's about the planet being dehumanised as being as dehumanised as reeethte— being as dehumanised as possible-if- being as dehumanised as possible. if people possible. and if people are htereetet— possible. and if people are interested-in- possible. and if people are interested in the interested in more in the philosothr_ interested in more in the- philosophy,_future, philosophy, read fossil future, eertteuterty— particularly chapter three, where— particularly chapter three, where - about- particularly chapter three, where about the anti where i talk about the anti humeh— where i talk about the anti human philosophy behind so much of human philosophy behind so much et eur— human philosophy behind so much et thmthg— human philosophy behind so much of our thinking that— human philosophy behind so much of our thinking that many of us eheert— of our thinking that many of us absorb unwittingly. i certainly did absorb unwittingly. i certainly ttt tetere— absorb unwittingly. i certainly did before figured it all out. did before i figured it all out. etee— did before i figured it all out. atev thet— did before i figured it all out. alex that that— did before i figured it all out. alex that that idea that anti humeh— alex that that idea that anti human aspect— alex that that idea that anti human aspect to so much of this is human aspect to so much of this he vhet— human aspect to so much of this is what chimes— human aspect to so much of this is what chimes most strongly vtth— is what chimes most strongly vvtth — is what chimes most strongly vvtth .— is what chimes most strongly with me. i believe- is what chimes most strongly with me. i believe this to be a planet for humans, not a planet that the not a planet that should be without humans. i've run out of time. thank you so much for joining run out of time. thank you so much forjoining me. i'll hope to pick up this conversation at another available opportunity. thanks epstein . thanks for now. alec epstein. we're break, after we're on another break, after which be joined by trustee which i'll be joined by trustee of climate advisors uk and our director of friends of the earth in the 70s, tom burke . you'll be in the 70s, tom burke. you'll be joining us. stay

at 6:00 for gloria meets only on gb at 6:00 for gloria meets only on ere teve— at 6:00 for gloria meets only on me here the— at 6:00 for gloria meets only on gb news the people's channel, hrtteh-e— gb news the people's channel, britain's news— gb news the people's channel, britain's news channel. ' r:

britain's news channel. and. veheme— britain's news channel. and. welcome back— britain's news channel. and. welcome back to— britain's news channel. and. welcome back to neil oliver live. now there is, of course, ehether— live. now there is, of course, ehether ette— live. now there is, of course, another side to— live. now there is, of course, another side to the- now there is, of course, another side to the climate ehehge— another side to the climate change debate _ another side to the climate change debate .— another side to the climate change debate . joining another side to the climate change debate .joining me another side to the climate change debate . joining me now another side to the climate change debate .joining me now is change debate. joining me now is tehg— change debate. joining me now is tehg term— change debate. joining me now is long term environmental eemeetgher— long term environmental campaigner tom burke, who across five campaigner tom burke, who across ttve teeetee— campaigner tom burke, who across ttve teeetee hee— campaigner tom burke, who across five decades has worked etehgette— five decades has worked alongside many international organisations— alongside many international organisations and government hettee— organisations and government bodies dedicated to finding the teet— bodies dedicated to finding the heet vvey— bodies dedicated to finding the heet vey te— bodies dedicated to finding the best way to look— bodies dedicated to finding the best way to look after this blue etehet— best way to look after this blue etehet et— best way to look after this blue etehet et eure— best way to look after this blue planet of ours .— best way to look after this blue planet of ours . thanks, tom. is planet of ours. thanks, tom. is it planet of ours. thanks, tom. is tt tegtttmete— planet of ours. thanks, tom. is it legitimate not— planet of ours. thanks, tom. is it legitimate not to dismiss the ether— it legitimate not to dismiss the ether ette— it legitimate not to dismiss the ether ette et— it legitimate not to dismiss the other side of the— it legitimate not to dismiss the other side of the argument in theee— other side of the argument in theee etteh— other side of the argument in these often aggressive and ttemteetve— these often aggressive and dismissive terms? will chit" g dismissive terms? well, i don't think anybody should ever be aggressive or dismissive, but i was very interested in your introduction to this segment because it clearly you clearly need to get out a bit more if you think that the other side of this case hasn't been put straight off. sorry. no, straight off. sorry. no, no, i carry on. carry on. yeah. i was going to say exactly. you know, read the daily telegraph arnie day of the week, read ross clarke, charles moore, all of

whom are putting the other side of this argument the time. of this argument all the time. so quite wrong to suggest so it's quite wrong to suggest to people the other side of to people that the other side of this argument isn't being put. it's being put all the time. the reality is, however, that world leaders have not accepted the arguments put by the people who think the science is wrong. now, there are all sorts of arguments about what you should do, whether you think the science is wrong or right. but we're so there are very, very, very small number people who think number of people who think there's on the there's another side on the science case? i science. is that the case? i mean, the famously tart f f7 i mean, the famously from 31 f f7 i mean, the famously from 2013 there— mean, the famously from 2013 there ee— mean, the famously from 2013 there was was— mean, the famously from 2013 there was was there was the hem— there was was there was the etetm thet— there was was there was the claim that 97%_ there was was there was the claim that 97% of scientists egreemg— claim that 97% of scientists were agreeing .— claim that 97% of scientists were agreeing . and on side were agreeing. and on your side of were agreeing. and on your side et the— were agreeing. and on your side of the debate. _ were agreeing. and on your side of the debate. but— were agreeing. and on your side of the debate. but that claim hee— of the debate. but that claim has subsequently been shown to be has subsequently been shown to he vett— has subsequently been shown to he vett .— has subsequently been shown to be well, misleading at best. fraudulent. _ be well, misleading at best. fraudulent. no,— be well, misleading at best. fraudulent. \r:::r g be well, misleading at best. fraudulent. hrsr g fraudulent. no, it's not right. you're not right on that, neil. that's nancy . that's nancy that's nancy. that's nancy oreskes is work 98% actually not 97% based on the dismissive of we can't we don't really have time to get into that but based on dismissing 7000 of 11,000 abstracts that that did not take abstracts that that did not take a position on anthropogenic

climate change one way or the other, which shifted the dial from 37% to 97, 98. now . so from 37% to 97, 98. now. so there heve— from 37% to 97, 98. now. so there have been— from 37% to 97, 98. now. so there have been let's- > 9 t�* 98 now. so there have been let's now go hect— there have been let's now go heet te— there have been let's now go back to 2013. _ there have been let's now go back to 2013. let's look at the ipcc report, which you picked up now. and you mentioned quite correctly that the summary for policymakers , this is the thing policymakers, this is the thing that has most influence on us. now that summary for policymakers has agreed line by line by government accounts of all the oil producing nations. so why would you think they're lying to everybody ? because the lying to everybody? because the etrehgth— lying to everybody? because the etrehgth eht— lying to everybody? because the strength and the— lg g ”g 37 because the strength and the commitment of the ether— strength and the commitment of the other side— strength and the commitment of the other side has— strength and the commitment of the other side has to be ttetehet— the other side has to be listened to. _ the other side has to be listened to. and there are htehty— listened to. and there are htehty et— listened to. and there are plenty of well—argued peer revtevet— plenty of well—argued peer reviewed stuff _ plenty of well—argued peer reviewed stuff ,_ plenty of well—argued peer reviewed stuff , statements made reviewed stuff, statements made thet— reviewed stuff, statements made thet rur— reviewed stuff, statements made that run counter— reviewed stuff, statements made that run counter to— reviewed stuff, statements made that run counter to the science thet— that run counter to the science thet yeur— that run counter to the science thet yeur ette— that run counter to the science that your side of— that run counter to the science that your side of the debate tehehte— that your side of the debate tehehte uhem — that your side of the debate depends upon. i'm sorry. first of depends upon. i'm sorry. first et ett— depends upon. i'm sorry. first et ett there— depends upon. i'm sorry. first of all, there aren't— depends upon. i'm sorry. first of all, there aren't lots of peer reviewed articles. there are lots of people out there. people you quoted syntax, for example, for example, the 53 papers, 52 of which took a side , and the ipcc report picked up

on the on the questionable conclusions of the single paper out of 53. wait a minute . i out of 53. wait a minute. i don't know what you're quoting. 53 papers about what within the within the ipcc report , several within the ipcc report, several thousand papers in the ipcc reports. i don't know which 53 you're talking about, but there's an example. well, no , there's an example. well, no, there's an example. well, no, there's somebody— there's an example. well, no, there's somebody says- ”rs; 3“ rsxr3 well, no, there's somebody says to “rshs; 3“ 3x33“ well, no, there's somebody says to you, there-e— there's somebody says to you, there-e eh— there's somebody says to you, there's an example of something. and there's an example of something. amt vhet— there's an example of something. amt vhet te— there's an example of something. amt vhet he yeu— there's an example of something. and what do you do?— there's an example of something. and what do you do? you- there's an example of something. and what do you do? you just believe them or do you question it? do you look and see whether what they was right? i what they said was right? i don't believe it. but you yeureett— don't believe it. but you yourself-your- don't believe it. but you- yourself,.your-statement, yourself, by your own statement, yeue— yourself, by your own statement, yeure eeymg— yourself, by your own statement, you're saying-don't- yourself, by your own statement, you're saying don't know you're saying you don't know vhet— you're saying you don't know vhet ee— you're saying you don't know vhet h— you're saying you don't know what was in those papers, but it's what was in those papers, but he reuhtty— what was in those papers, but it's roundly—in- what was in those papers, but it's roundly in any it's roundly dismissed. in any evem— it's roundly dismissed. in any evert—te- event, that whatever it is thet-e— event, that whatever it is that's-those - event, that whatever it is that's .those 52 - event, that whatever it is that's those 52 papers not that's in those 52 papers is not verth— that's in those 52 papers is not verth heymg— that's in those 52 papers is not worth paying attention to. vett— worth paying attention to. vett-ere— worth paying attention to. well,-are some- worth paying attention to. i well,-are some people worth paying attention to. - well,-are some people who well, there are some people who believe and we believe the earth is flat and we don't really pay very much attention to them. now, there are people stand are loads of people who stand up on speaker's corner in london every weekend of the year and say pays very say things that nobody pays very much either. why much attention to either. why are attention to are you paying attention to these strange people? i don't think that why— these strange people? i don't think that why- see - think that why you see that dismissive.— think that why you see that. dismissive._strange dismissive. they're not strange heehte. —

dismissive. they're not strange people. -dismissing. dismissive. they're not strange. people. -dismissing neil, people. you are dismissing neil, which is you said you which is what you said you wouldn't do. sorry england. i'm arguing with. there are people yeure— arguing with. there are people yeu-re—eeteti you're quite right. he's asked me— you're quite right. he's asked me-eh-erguel you're quite right. he's asked. me -on-argue with me to come on and argue with mm.— me to come on and argue with htm. there— me to come on and argue with him. there-people- me to come on and argue with him. there people asked him. there are people from asked me—htemteemg- him. there are people from asked me_dismissing him.l me to. you're dismissing him. there are credible people. they are credible people that- they are credible people that have thet— are credible people that have thet heve— are credible people that have that have opinions. they have gueettehe. — that have opinions. they have questions. -want- that have opinions. they have questions. want answered that have opinions. they have quertheis. want answered that have opinions. they have querthe ad want answered that have opinions. they have querthe ad hominem answered that have opinions. they have querthe ad hominem attacks,d and the ad hominem attacks, vhteh— and the ad hominem attacks, vhteh te— and the ad hominem attacks, which is always— and the ad hominem attacks, which is always used to after which is always used to go after the—het— which is always used to go after the—net the- which is always used to go after the not the argument the person and not the argument hehg— the person and not the argument hehg-t— the person and not the argument hehg-t thht— the person and not the argument being-i think is- being made. i think is unhelpful.— being made. i think is unhelpful. - being made. i think is unhelpful. tiers“ 3: 3“ g unhelpful. well, i couldn't agree with you more about ad hominem arguing hominem attacks. i'm arguing with things say are with the things that you say are facts. i'm not arguing with you. i'm levels i'm not saying sea levels haven't risen. the sea levels heve— haven't risen. the sea levels heve rteem— haven't risen. the sea levels have risen.iit's_ haven't risen. the sea levels have risen.iit's-wrongl haven't risen. the sea levels have risen. it's wrong that have risen. it's just wrong that assertion is just wrong. but someone how i someone like me, how am i supposed the i'm supposed to make the i'm a reasonable person? you know, i'm not a reasonable person? you know, i'm het e eeterttet— reasonable person? you know, i'm not a scientist. i've— reasonable person? you know, i'm not a scientist. i've make- 7 you know, i'm not a scientist. i've make no hehee— not a scientist. i've make no hehee eheut— not a scientist. i've make no bones about it.— not a scientist. i've make no bones about it. but i read both ethee— bones about it. but i read both ethee. thh— bones about it. but i read both sides. and when— bones about it. but i read both sides. and when i'm told, oh, thet-e— sides. and when i'm told, oh, thet-e tuet— sides. and when i'm told, oh, that's just simply— sides. and when i'm told, oh, that's just simply wrong, i'm het— that's just simply wrong, i'm not persuaded— that's just simply wrong, i'm not persuaded by a bold not persuaded by by a bold etetemeht— not persuaded by by a bold statement, like— not persuaded by by a bold statement, like that's just etmhty— statement, like that's just etmhtyvrehg— statement, like that's just simply wrong because the people eeyhg— simply wrong because the people eeyhg tt— simply wrong because the people eeyhg tt muet— simply wrong because the people saying it must have reasons saying it must have the reasons for saying it must have the reasons terlhehg. — saying it must have the reasons for-doing. well,— saying it must have the reasons for-doing. well, yes,- saying it must have the reasons for doing. will grs;3 for so doing. well, yes, but you don't those reasons don't know what those reasons are. they could be all are. and so they could be all kinds of reasons. i don't know what reasons are either. but

what the reasons are either. but what the reasons are either. but what saying you is this. what i'm saying to you is this. look, you believe and kind of look, if you believe and kind of a slightly indicated in the way you introduced the program, that people all the time people are lying all the time and everybody is lying and everybody in authority is lying. that was how introduced the that was how you introduced the program. and only. but yes, but yeure— program. and only. but yes, but yeure retehg— 3 and only. but yes, but you're raising question, how you're raising the question, how heee— you're raising the question, how heee ehyhehy— you're raising the question, how does anybody know the truth and theretere— does anybody know the truth and therefore,-anybody- therefore, how does anybody know whether— whether you're telling the rare— whether you're telling the truth? - don't - whether you're telling the truth?-don't thinki whether you're telling the. truth?-don't think we whether you're telling the- truth?-don't think we can truth? and i don't think we can live in that kind of world. i think we have to live in a world in self—confidence. so in which self—confidence. so i don't say that don't know. i don't say that you're deliberately lying to me. do i think you've got your facts wrong some yes, wrong on some of this? yes, i do. are you saying that there are do. are you saying that there ehty— do. are you saying that there are only there _ do. are you saying that there are only there are— r:rs» are you saying that there are only there are no vested htereete— are only there are no vested htereete eh— are only there are no vested interests on your— are only there are no vested interests on your side of the hehetee— interests on your side of the debate? because— interests on your side of the debate? because the debate? because one of the ettegettehe— debate? because one of the allegations that— debate? because one of the allegations that always made allegations that is always made is allegations that is always made te-heehte,— allegations that is always made te-heehte, ter— allegations that is always made is people, for example, the is that people, for example, the hunter — is that people, for example, the clinton foundation, one of the ettegettehe— allegations that is routinely mehe— allegations that is routinely mete—ere- allegations that is routinely made—are theyi allegations that is routinely. made—are they are made is that they are they are veeteh— made is that they are they are vested interests— made is that they are they are vested interests oil vested interests in the oil thhuetry— vested interests in the oil thhuetry er— vested interests in the oil industry or whatever. uh, now thet— industry or whatever. uh, now thet-er— industry or whatever. uh, now thet-er mey— industry or whatever. uh, now that-or may not- industry or whatever. uh, now that or may not be the case, that may or may not be the case, but that may or may not be the case, hut-veuthh-t- that may or may not be the case, but-wouldn't an- but then why wouldn't an thhuetry— but then why wouldn't an industry-oil- but then why wouldn't an- industry-oil industry industry as big as oil industry eeet— industry as big as oil industry eeet te— industry as big as oil industry seek to defend— industry as big as oil industry seek to defend its case? are you eeyhg — seek to defend its case? are you eeyhg-ere— seek to defend its case? are you eeyhg-ere he- seek to defend its case? are you saying are no vested saying that there are no vested htereete—hi interests on your side? or is it all benevolent— interests on your side? or is it all benevolent people purely

vvtth— all benevolent people purely htth the— all benevolent people purely with the best— all benevolent people purely with the best interests of the htehet— with the best interests of the htehet et— with the best interests of the planet at heart? will planet at heart? well, i'm terry.— planet at heart? well, i'm sorry. do i think they're economically vested interests in terms of the arguments? no, i don't. do i think there are intellectually vested? of course they of course there are they do. of course there are people who made intellectually vested interests. that's we vested interests. that's why we have in order. so have peer reviews in order. so those interests get challenged. that's of peer that's the point of peer reviewed . so when i'm reviewed science. so when i'm asked i believe a group asked whether i believe a group of people who just announce themselves as experts or whether i believe the peer reviewed science , i believe the peer science, i believe the peer reviewed science now, can that be yes, of course can be wrong? yes, of course it can be wrong? yes, of course it can be wrong. it wrong in this be wrong. is it wrong in this case? i don't know. what do you mete— case? i don't know. what do you mete et— case? i don't know. what do you mete et htee— case? i don't know. what do you make of alex epstein's- 37 : 3“ g what do you make of alex epstein's assertion thet— make of alex epstein's assertion thet-tt— make of alex epstein's assertion thet-tt-uee— that even if the use of hydrocarbons- that even if the use of hydrocarbons is affecting the hmee— hydrocarbons is affecting the climate, that— hydrocarbons is affecting the climate, that the advantages to be climate, that the advantages to he geheh— climate, that the advantages to he geheh trem — climate, that the advantages to be gained from having access to all be gained from having access to ett thet— be gained from having access to ett thet thet— be gained from having access to all that that provides enables us all that that provides enables ue hetter— all that that provides enables ue hetter te— all that that provides enables us better to combat the likely consequences. _ us better to combat the likely consequences. if— us better to combat the likely consequences. �*" d consequences. if he's wrong about that, i think he's right in what he says in his book about the advantages we've gained from burning fossil fuels. i think it's absolutely right to say that we've got lots

of advantages from that. we've kind of maxed our planetary kind of maxed out our planetary credit card in terms of how much carbon the atmosphere can can absorb safely . what i also know absorb safely. what i also know is that 70% of that burning of fossil fuels ends up as waste heat and that there are already available. and what's more, investors are now investing more more in renewables than fossil fuels . we can supply all the fuels. we can supply all the energy that people need, including all those poor people including all those poor people in africa, much more cheaply through using renewables and all the technologies we're developing now than we can by doing it through fossil fuels. genuinely, you genuinely assert thet— genuinely, you genuinely assert gar.— genuinely, you genuinely assert erg. yeu— genuinely, you genuinely assert erg. yeu thew,— genuinely, you genuinely assert that , you know, alex that that, you know, alex ettegee— that that, you know, alex alleges that— that that, you know, alex alleges that 80 odd% of the necessary energy is coming from hyhreeerhehe— necessary energy is coming from hyhreeerhehe .— necessary energy is coming from hydrocarbons . why do you believe hydrocarbons. why do you believe that hydrocarbons. why do you believe thet thet— hydrocarbons. why do you believe thet thet eh— hydrocarbons. why do you believe that that can be— hydrocarbons. why do you believe that that can be set— hydrocarbons. why do you believe that that can be set aside and rehteeeh— that that can be set aside and rehteeeh eh— that that can be set aside and replaced on behalf of the heereet— replaced on behalf of the poorest people in the world vvttheut— poorest people in the world vttheut tt— poorest people in the world without it causing them any ehert— without it causing them any ehert te— without it causing them any short to medium term disadvantage? : 3“ g short to medium term _ disadvantage? .don't believe disadvantage? you don't believe me? iea. the iea says me? read the iea. the iea says that it's now cheaper everywhere in the world to provide the energy people need through renewables to do it through

renewables than to do it through burning fossil fuels in existing situations. do i think that situations. so do i think that people need that energy? yes what i is the cheapest and what i think is the cheapest and fastest way to get to them and in that won't subject them in a way that won't subject them to drought food insecurity to drought and food insecurity is exactly not to burn fossil fuels. so in the short term, we can take a hydrocarbon away from the world and replace it with renewables without any detriment to those . as alex epstein points to those. as alex epstein points out v— to those. as alex epstein points eut , re— to those. as alex epstein points eut , uehg— to those. as alex epstein points out , are using in— to those. as alex epstein points out , are using in a— as alex epstein points out, are using in a year as much eteetrte— out, are using in a year as much eteetrte hetty— out, are using in a year as much electric motty as— out, are using in a year as much electric motty as as— out, are using in a year as much electric motty as as a westerner veuth— electric motty as as a westerner veuth expect— electric motty as as a westerner would expect to _ electric motty as as a westerner would expect to power a fridge teehmeetty— would expect to power a fridge technically can— would expect to power a fridge technically can we do it? t/rs;3 technically can we do it? yes. cer— technically can we do it? yes. her he— technically can we do it? yes. her he he— technically can we do it? yes. her he he tt— technically can we do it? yes. can we do it in— technically can we do it? yes. can we do it in time- technically can we do it? yes. can we do it in time to meet the two degrees? whatever. 2050 net zero? yes we have the technology now to do that with that destroy our economies . no, it wouldn't. our economies. no, it wouldn't. do we have the political will to do that? well i'm pretty sceptical about that. that's that's a much more tricky problem. ingrid what do you think, listening this? think, listening to this? because we listen to an because clearly we listen to an ergumeht— because clearly we listen to an ergumeht-htex— because clearly we listen to an argument alex epstein, because clearly we listen to an argumwas alex epstein, because clearly we listen to an argumwas , alex epstein, because clearly we listen to an argumwas , you alex epstein, because clearly we listen to an argumwas , you know,istein, because clearly we listen to an argumwas , you know, strongly, which was, you know, strongly, etrehgty—vve- which was, you know, strongly,| strongly—we listen strongly put and then we listen to strongly put and then we listen telergumeht— strongly put and then we listeni to.argument-burke to an argument from tom burke rag,— to an argument from tom burke rag, eguehy— to an argument from tom burke here, equally strongly if here, equally strongly put, if not here, equally strongly put, if

net—hut- here, equally strongly put, if net—hut ht.- here, equally strongly put, ifi not—put it. how not more strongly put it. how are not more strongly put it. how the— not more strongly put it. how are the likes— not more strongly put it. how are the likes of— not more strongly put it. how are the likes of you and i to there— are the likes of you and i to discern where— are the likes of you and i to discern where we- are the likes of you and i to discern where we actually stand as discern where we actually stand ee e hehutetteh— discern where we actually stand as a population ? _ discern where we actually stand as a population ? as a population? i mean, we just have to speak our truth and our belief and as much as possible, fight it out. if what we think can can be supported by so . so can can be supported by so. so you have the what's it called the citadel? no, the syntel clientele. sorry um, and that seems to be very, very accepts to me. the other thing as well, i mean what i want to ask you what you think of graham hancock and more actually specifically because he's very scientific and sort of randall carlson. i mean, do you think that they have a credible argument? i don't know them. i don't know what you eheuth. —otl them. i don't know what you- should. _of course should. why should i? of course you should. why should i? of course yeu-heceuee— should. why should i? of course you because they the you should, because they put the opposite you and we opposite argument to you and we need to know all the arguments to be able make an informed to be able to make an informed decision. well, hang don't decision. well, hang on. i don't need to everybody. putting need to know everybody. putting the lydon need to know everybody. putting the - lydon argument. - the john lydon argument. i've reeh— the john lydon argument. i've reeh-the— the john lydon argument. i've read-the other- read a lot of the other ergumehte— read a lot of the other arguments i've just been arguments as i've just been hehthg— arguments as i've just been hehthg-te— arguments as i've just been pointing to neil, it's

pointing out to neil, but it's a verttehte— pointing out to neil, but it's a veritable argument and that that thh— veritable argument and that that tthh et— veritable argument and that that kind of becomes— veritable argument and that that kind of becomes my little bible. hett— kind of becomes my little bible. vett-hetteve— kind of becomes my little bible. well,-believe what- kind of becomes my little bible. well, believe what you well, fine. i believe what you hetteve—thel well, fine. i believe what you- believe._the best. believe. you must make the best. i believe. you must make the best. . her-t— believe. you must make the best. i don't believe— believe. you must make the best. i don't believe you. _ believe. you must make the best. i don't believe you. c3 3“ i don't believe you. can i say something want to say something here? i want to say something here? i want to say something you're e—3g something because you're e—3g and analyse the state of the and you analyse the state of the climate politics with in countries, institutions countries, major institutions and sectors as our and economic sectors as our insights help set political agendas and inform decision makers. do you not think that's very politically driven and that's. no, i think that is your agenda. i'm being very honest about what i'm what i try to do. mobilisation, for example, yeure— mobilisation, for example, you're entitled— mobilisation, for example, you're entitled to. it's a hemeereey. — you're entitled to. it's a democracy. you're entitled to exeetty— democracy. you're entitled to exeetty-hehg- democracy. you're entitled to eveetty-hehg .- democracy. you're entitled to exactly-doing . i. democracy. you're entitled to exactly doing . i don't exactly what i'm doing. i don't vert— exactly what i'm doing. i don't vert-eteh— exactly what i'm doing. i don't vehtleteh yeu— exactly what i'm doing. i don't want stop you doing it. want to stop you doing it. i her-t— want to stop you doing it. i heh-t hert— want to stop you doing it. i don't want stop. h rs; l ca rs“ don't want stop. neil o'brien us of the stance taken by patrick moore, who's the co—founder of greenpeace and a lot of greenpeace and has a lot of reservations about the about the, the ramping up of the alarm about climate crisis. i know he's been saying— about climate crisis. i know he's been saying it- about climate crisis. i know he's been saying it for- i know he's been saying it for a very tehg— he's been saying it for a very tehg ttme— he's been saying it for a very long time and— he's been saying it for a very long time and the thing is very htereethg— long time and the thing is very interesting how— long time and the thing is very interesting how many of the hreehheeee— interesting how many of the- greenpeace—how greenpeace people tell you how vrehg— greenpeace people tell you how wrong-is?— greenpeace people tell you how wrong-is? .— greenpeace people tell you how wrong-is? i just— greenpeace people tell you how wrong is? i just think he's wrong he is? i just think he's vvrehg— wrong he is? i just think he's vvrehg he-e— wrong he is? i just think he's wrong. he's entitled to his he-e— wrong. he's entitled to his view. he's entitled to his ehhtem — view. he's entitled to his opinion. remember what this

opinion. but remember what this is opinion. but remember what this te—eheut— opinion. but remember what this te—eheutlhhyeteel is an argument about is physics. vvheh— is an argument about is physics. vvheh tt— is an argument about is physics. vvheh tt emee— is an argument about is physics. when it comes to— is an argument about is physics. when it comes to physics and hettttee— when it comes to physics and hettttee er— when it comes to physics and politics or physics and or eehtere— politics or physics and or opinions. at— politics or physics and or opinions. at the end of the day, hhyetee— opinions. at the end of the day, hhyetee-vhe. — opinions. at the end of the day, physics-wins. oh,- opinions. at the end of the day,| physics-wins. oh,-it physics always wins. oh, does it 7 physics always wins. oh, does it e hut— physics always wins. oh, does it e hut the— physics always wins. oh, does it ? but the climate— physics always wins. oh, does it ? but the climate it- physics always wins. oh, does it ? but the climate it didn't. with covid the world. the world climate. declan _ with covid the world. the world climate. declan nation- �*sht co "a : the world climate. declan nation that hurt— climate. declan nation that ctht-guete— climate. declan nation that clint-quote had- climate. declan nation that clint quote had had a had clint hill quote had had a had a hhyetee— clint hill quote had had a had a physics laureate— clint hill quote had had a had a physics laureate and admittedly not physics laureate and admittedly het te— physics laureate and admittedly het te he— physics laureate and admittedly not to do with— physics laureate and admittedly not to do with climate change hut— not to do with climate change hut hut— not to do with climate change but but nonetheless he came from the-hhyetee— but but nonetheless he came from the-hhyetee enh- but but nonetheless he came from the-physics and yet- but but nonetheless he came from the physics and yet not the field of physics and yet not thet— the field of physics and yet not even that was— the field of physics and yet not even that was he's— the field of physics and yet not even that was he's derided as a, you— even that was he's derided as a, yeu thew,— even that was he's derided as a, yeu thevt ee— even that was he's derided as a, yeu thevt ee e— even that was he's derided as a, you know, as a they— even that was he's derided as a, you know, as a they call him a heeter— you know, as a they call him a heeter hey— you know, as a they call him a heeter hey et— you know, as a they call him a poster boy of the— you know, as a they call him a poster boy of the world climate heeterettem — poster boy of the world climate declaration. is— poster boy of the world climate declaration. is that fair to heme— declaration. is that fair to htemtee e— declaration. is that fair to dismiss a physics nobel laureate vhe— dismiss a physics nobel laureate hhe vhe— dismiss a physics nobel laureate the the hee— dismiss a physics nobel laureate who who has looked at the data in who who has looked at the data th the— who who has looked at the data th the eeme— who who has looked at the data in the same way— who who has looked at the data in the same way that you have enh— in the same way that you have ehh hee— in the same way that you have and has drawn— in the same way that you have and has drawn a— in the same way that you have and has drawn a different conclusion?— and has drawn a different conclusion? well, i said you conclusion? well, i said to you eerth,— conclusion? well, i said to you earra, tt-e— conclusion? well, i said to you earlier, it's wrong— conclusion? well, i said to you earlier, it's wrong to be htemteetve— earlier, it's wrong to be dismissive of- earlier, it's wrong to be dismissive of anybody who has an ehhtem —ehgege- dismissive of anybody who has anj opinion. _engage with opinion. you should engage with an opinion and you should engage to you forcefully to engage with you forcefully with if that's with that opinion. if that's what i'm for that what you feel. i'm all for that . have to believe somebody . do i have to believe somebody just because they're a nobel laureate ? no, of course i don't. laureate? no, of course i don't. ineed laureate? no, of course i don't. i need to test what they say. like i test what everybody says. but haven't they been tested by

the mere fact that they've received the nobel prize? i don't what even neil don't know what even neil eeuthh-t— don't know what even neil couldn't tell— don't know what even neil couldn't tell me. 7 don't know what even neil couldn't tell me. �*ftt�* 7 rs; couldn't tell me. what? he received a nobel laureate for somersault. it's do with it's somersault. it's to do with it's to somersault. it's to do with it's te he— somersault. it's to do with it's te he .— somersault. it's to do with it's to do . correct— somersault. it's to do with it's to do . correct me— somersault. it's to do with it's to do . correct me if- it's to do with it's to do . correct me if i'm wrong, to do. correct me if i'm wrong, hut— to do. correct me if i'm wrong, but semiconductors, i think but but semiconductors, i think buti hut—hem but nonetheless, he comes from a hhyetee— but nonetheless, he comes from a physics background. _ but nonetheless, he comes from a physics background. has physics background. she has a ehehtttte— physics background. she has a scientific background of the eert— scientific background of the eert thet— scientific background of the eert thet .— scientific background of the sort that i cannot claim. i heter— sort that i cannot claim. i heteh te— sort that i cannot claim. i listen to him— sort that i cannot claim. i listen to him standing up and eeyhg— listen to him standing up and eeyhg-thre— listen to him standing up and saying this world climate saying that this world climate heeteretteh — saying that this world climate declaration .valid - declaration is a valid statement,- declaration is a valid- statement,-roundly statement, and he's roundly htemteeeh— statement, and he's roundly dismissed,-find- statement, and he's roundly dismissed, find he has dismissed, which i find he has not persuaded— dismissed, which i find he has not persuaded fellow scientists . thet-e— not persuaded fellow scientists . that's that's— not persuaded fellow scientists . that's that's clear.- not persuaded fellow scientists . that's that's clear. he- not persuaded fellow scientists . that's that's clear. he hasn't persuaded them. isaac, you come back to the question, who do you trust? and that's the question you're asking me. yeah don't you're asking me. yeah i don't trust that's fine. and trust anyone. that's fine. and as i say, as i said to neil earlier on, if you think you're living in a world in which everybody lies, you're in a lot of trouble. i don't think i ever i'll of trouble. i don't think i ever ttt teth— of trouble. i don't think i ever ttt tett yeu— of trouble. i don't think i ever i'll tell you what,— of trouble. i don't think i ever i'll tell you what, i— i don't think i ever i'll tell you what, i don't thht— i'll tell you what, i don't ththt tt-e— i'll tell you what, i don't think it's lies— i'll tell you what, i don't think it's lies that they're not hrehereh— think it's lies that they're not hrehereh te— think it's lies that they're not prepared to _the - think it's lies that they're not prepared to the running prepared to admit the running out prepared to admit the running eut-heth— prepared to admit the running out-both purely- prepared to admit the running out both purely running out of time, both purely running out of time, both purely running eutlttme. — out of time, both purely running out-time. fascinating.- out of time, both purely running out time. 33rt. 3“; 3r: out of time. fascinating. and more delighted that more than i'm delighted that i've opportunity to hear i've had the opportunity to hear both of debate both sides of the debate tonight. and can pick this tonight. and we can pick this conversation at another time.

conversation up at another time. i'm so much for i'm sure. thank you so much for your contribution, tom burke. it's break which it's another break after which we'll be discussing the phenomenon 3d imaging. phenomenon that's 3d imaging. new images have been released that show the wonders of the titanic, to titanic, which we never seem to get tired we have author, get tired of. we have author, historian and presenter tim historian and tv presenter tim moulton discuss moulton joining us to discuss this of this fascinating display of human effort .

welcome back to neil oliver live. now a new image has been revealed of the world's most famous shipwreck, titanic , the famous shipwreck, titanic, the great liner that sank to the bottom of the north atlantic in 1912. after striking an iceberg on her maiden voyage , is on her maiden voyage, is available to see in all her massive, tragic glory . for the massive, tragic glory. for the first time in more than a century . so i think we have. do century. so i think we have. do we have the image? do we have the image now? because we and do we have our guest, historian and

author tim moulton. look at that . there is the it's what's been assembled there from 3d imaging is for the first time the titanic in her entirety . and titanic in her entirety. and there is something of the i don't know, ingrid what you make of that can't you there's something there's something of a sea. there's something of a sea monster about that profile of that. it's kind of haunting tmegee— that. it's kind of haunting tmegee, ten-t— that. it's kind of haunting images, isn't it,- it's kind of haunting images, isn't it, when you think all images, isn't it, when you think ett the— images, isn't it, when you think eh the teeth— images, isn't it, when you think all the people that died, there were over 1500 _ all the people that died, there were over 1500 that died. and were over1500 that died. and there— were over1500 that died. and there he— were over1500 that died. and there he thet— were over 1500 that died. and there is that kind— were over 1500 that died. and there is that kind of haunted teet— there is that kind of haunted teet eheut— there is that kind of haunted look about it.— there is that kind of haunted look about it. but isn't that emezhg— look about it. but isn't that amazing thing? g amazing thing? it's also the way i think it's fair to say that we never lose our fascination with when you think of the ships that have been lost or, you know, even within living memory. but and down through the ages . but and down through the ages. but titanic, 19, celestial titanic , titanic, 19, celestial titanic, isuppose titanic, 19, celestial titanic, i suppose the two of but it was the way that it was held the unsinkable i mean the irony of that. but you know something tve— that. but you know something he heeh— that. but you know something i've been reading— but you know something i've been reading about this . it i've been reading about this. it is i've been reading about this. it te e— i've been reading about this. it is a fascinating— i've been reading about this. it is a fascinating look. it is heeutttut — is a fascinating look. it is beautiful. yes—

is a fascinating look. it is beautiful. yes that they haven't teuhh— beautiful. yes that they haven't hurt the— beautiful. yes that they haven't hurt the htt— beautiful. yes that they haven't found the hit the _ beautiful. yes that they haven't found the hit the iceberg on the eter— found the hit the iceberg on the eter huh.— found the hit the iceberg on the eter huh. thh— found the hit the iceberg on the star bud. and they— found the hit the iceberg on the star bud. and they can't see trem— star bud. and they can't see trem theee— star bud. and they can't see from those images. and i don't thht— from those images. and i don't ththt trem— from those images. and i don't think from actually exploring etther— think from actually exploring etther the— think from actually exploring either the panel where the teeherg— either the panel where the iceberg struck,— either the panel where the iceberg struck, there should be the— iceberg struck, there should be this massive _ iceberg struck, there should be this massive a— iceberg struck, there should be this massive a great big gash. we this massive a great big gash. vve ere— this massive a great big gash. vve gehg— this massive a great big gash. we were going to— this massive a great big gash. we were going to have a history thhrteh— we were going to have a history .aargr, vhe-e— we were going to have a history , adrian, who's been who has heeh— , adrian, who's been who has heeh hert— , adrian, who's been who has heeh hert et— , adrian, who's been who has been part of the— , adrian, who's been who has been part of the project to put tegether— been part of the project to put tegether thre— been part of the project to put together this this— been part of the project to put together this this image. '“r: together this this image. and to and together this this image. and to ehh te— together this this image. and to ehh te tett— together this this image. and to ehh te tett ue— together this this image. and to and to talk us through it. but for one of, i think almost the images just speak for themselves, don't they? ingrid oh, yes, completely. and there's even even although by by modern standards, you know, titanic , standards, you know, titanic, biggest ship in the world, i think the sailed, she think at the time it sailed, she was biggest man made object was the biggest man made object that ever across the that had ever moved across the face earth. in 1912, she face of the earth. in 1912, she was face of the earth. in 1912, she 329,— face of the earth. in 1912, she the, he. — face of the earth. in 1912, she was 329, no. 300.— t in 1912, she was 329, no. 300. what is it, seeth— was 329, no. 300. what is it, eeette vee— was 329, no. 300. what is it, 383ft? yes yes.— was 329, no. 300. what is it, 383ft? yes yes. yeah. the tergeet. — 383ft? yes yes. yeah. the tergeet. thh— 383ft? yes yes. yeah. the largest. and actually even the queen— largest. and actually even the queen mery— largest. and actually even the queen mary two— largest. and actually even the queen mary two isn't that long. it queen mary two isn't that long. t he. — queen mary two isn't that long. t he. hut— queen mary two isn't that long. it is. but there— queen mary two isn't that long. it is. but there is— queen mary two isn't that long. it is. but there is just- queen mary two isn't that long. it is. but there is just no matter what, even though she's dwarfed by modern, you know, tankers, modern ships , there is tankers, modern ships, there is something irreplaceable about

the about titanic in our imaginations , i think. i don't imaginations, i think. i don't think any other vessel ever take her place. no, but it was a shtehheur— her place. no, but it was a splendour when— t no, but it was a splendour when you when you teethg— splendour when you when you teethg et— splendour when you when you looking at the— splendour when you when you looking at the film, you know, the temeue— looking at the film, you know, the famous one— looking at the film, you know, the famous one really i suppose it the famous one really i suppose tt ee— the famous one really i suppose it was cameron— the famous one really i suppose it was cameron mackintosh was, you— it was cameron mackintosh was, yeu thevt — it was cameron mackintosh was, yeu thevt thet— it was cameron mackintosh was, you know, that wonderful eteree— you know, that wonderful eteree .— you know, that wonderful staircase . yes.- you know, that wonderful staircase . yes. the chandeliers, staircase. yes. the chandeliers, the— staircase. yes. the chandeliers, the heeh— staircase. yes. the chandeliers, the band, everybody dressed up. it the band, everybody dressed up. tt ee— the band, everybody dressed up. it was so elegant— the band, everybody dressed up. it was so elegant .— the band, everybody dressed up. it was so elegant . you know, it was so elegant. you know, thet— it was so elegant. you know, thet te— it was so elegant. you know, thet te hert— it was so elegant. you know, thet te hert et— it was so elegant. you know, that is part of the whole heeuty— that is part of the whole heeuty. thh— that is part of the whole beauty. and the romance of it. it beauty. and the romance of it. tt ee— beauty. and the romance of it. tt tt— beauty. and the romance of it. tt tt ee— beauty. and the romance of it. it was it was pure— beauty. and the romance of it. it was it was pure luxury, eert— it was it was pure luxury, eeht ttt— it was it was pure luxury, eeht tte — it was it was pure luxury, wasn't it? and- it was it was pure luxury, wasn't it? 3 3“r: it was it was pure luxury, wasn't it? 3“r: t it was it was pure luxury,- wasn't it? and also because when she went down in 1912, you know , just two years before the first world war, it was the end of an era . that's all we have of an era. that's all we have time for this evening. thank you to all who were watching or listening. we'll be back at the same time next week. thank you, ingrid. thank you. up next, is calvin common sense calvin robinson's common sense crusade. hello there. welcome to yeur— crusade. hello there. welcome to yeur-heether— crusade. hello there. welcome to your-weather forecast. your gb news weather forecast from— your gb news weather forecast from-office. - your gb news weather forecast from _office. .craigl from the met office. i'm craig smu— from the met office. i'm craig snell. looking— from the met office. i'm craig snell. looking the second snell. looking at the second hau— snell. looking at the second half-the— snell. looking at the second half the weekend for england half of the weekend for england and-ifs— half of the weekend for england and-n-s-to- half of the weekend for england and-it's-to be- and wales, it's going to be another— and wales, it's going to be another-dry- and wales, it's going to be another dry day, but another fine and dry day, but for scotland— another fine and dry day, but for scotland northern for scotland and northern ireland,— for scotland and northern ireland,.have- for scotland and northern ireland, have weather ireland, we have this weather front— ireland, we have this weather from which— ireland, we have this weather front which gradually front which will gradually spread— front which will gradually spread eastwards during spread its way eastwards during the-hours,—

spread its way eastwards during the-hours, given- spread its way eastwards during the hours, given spell the next 24 hours, given a spell of rain— the next 24 hours, given a spell of here.— the next 24 hours, given a spell of rain here. but— the next 24 hours, given a spell of rain here. but further south, the-dry— of rain here. but further south, the-dry conditions. of rain here. but further south, the dry conditions all the fine and dry conditions all courtesy—of- the fine and dry conditions all courtesy—of high. courtesy of an area of high pressure. so— courtesy of an area of high pressure. so as— courtesy of an area of high pressure. so as we end saturday, we end— pressure. so as we end saturday, we end on— pressure. so as we end saturday, we end on a fairly— pressure. so as we end saturday, we end on a fairly clear note across england— we end on a fairly clear note across england and wales. but further— across england and wales. but further north— across england and wales. but further north you— across england and wales. but further north you can see this bene— further north you can see this bend of— further north you can see this bend of em— further north you can see this band of rain gradually spreading its way— band of rain gradually spreading its way eeuee— band of rain gradually spreading its way south eastwards across samene— its way south eastwards acrossi scotland—ireland. scotland and northern ireland. ne— scotland and northern ireland. the en— scotland and northern ireland. the rain could— scotland and northern ireland. the rain could turn briefly heavy,— the rain could turn briefly heavy, especially across the nennnnns— heavy, especially across the mountains—but| heavy, especially across the - mountains—but under mountains of scotland. but under the mountains of scotland. but under nne eeue— mountains of scotland. but under nne eeue ene— mountains of scotland. but under the cloud and rain,— mountains of scotland. but under the cloud and rain, no problems nee— the cloud and rain, no problems nene winn— the cloud and rain, no problems here with temperatures further sennn — here with temperatures further seen—ene- south, it could turn quite enun— south, it could turn quite new fen— south, it could turn quite chilly for the _ south, it could turn quite chilly for the time of year, esneenuy— chilly for the time of year,- especially—prone especially across some prone spons— especially across some prone spots-midlands- especially across some prone spots midlands and wales. spots of the midlands and wales. but spots of the midlands and wales. nun—sens— spots of the midlands and wales. nun—senslnn- spots of the midlands and wales. but_sets.up for- but that really sets us up for enennen— but that really sets us up for another-across- but that really sets us up for another across england another fine day across england and wees— another fine day across england and wales could— another fine day across england and wales could just see some ten— and wales could just see some ten eeue— and wales could just see some low cloud from _ and wales could just see some low cloud from -to - and wales could just see some low cloud from to time, low cloud from time to time, just— low cloud from time to time, jnsn eneenng— low cloud from time to time, just affecting some eastern eeessn— just affecting some eastern coasts-really- just affecting some eastern coasts. really the cloudier coasts. but really the cloudier skies— coasts. but really the cloudier. skies—end skies reserved for scotland and nonnenn— skies reserved for scotland and northern ireland.— skies reserved for scotland and northern ireland. the rain will weeken— northern ireland. the rain will weaken as we approach the enenneen— weaken as we approach the afternoon-may- weaken as we approach the afternoon may allow some afternoon that may allow some nneneness— afternoon that may allow some nngnnness ee— afternoon that may allow some brightness to develop, but on the brightness to develop, but on we wneee,— brightness to develop, but on the whole, better— brightness to develop, but on the whole, better the sunshine fenne— the whole, better the sunshine further south.— the whole, better the sunshine further south. if— the whole, better the sunshine further south. if we're here, we-u— further south. if we're here, well see— further south. if we're here, we'll see temperatures reaching 21 we'll see temperatures reaching zn en— we'll see temperatures reaching n on 22— we'll see temperatures reaching 21 or 22 degrees— we'll see temperatures reaching 21 or 22 degrees as into the evening- — 21 or 22 degrees as into the evening. ene— 21 or 22 degrees as into the evening. the rain will continue to week— evening. the rain will continue to week we.— evening. the rain will continue we week we. se— evening. the rain will continue to break up. so some late spells of to break up. so some late spells en sensnene— to break up. so some late spells of sunshine possible across pens— of sunshine possible across pens en— of sunshine possible across parts of scotland and northern weeene. —

parts of scotland and northern weeene. nee— parts of scotland and northern ireland. but as— parts of scotland and northern ireland. but as we go through the ireland. but as we go through ene sewse— ireland. but as we go through the course of— ireland. but as we go through the course of the— ireland. but as we go through the course of the night, the seenene— the course of the night, the clearer-really- the course of the night, the clearer really across clearer skies really across weees— clearer skies really across wales southwest england. so, wales and southwest england. so, eeeen— wales and southwest england. so, eeeen-sewe— wales and southwest england. so, again, could another again, here could be another snww— again, here could be another sway-sene- again, here could be another chilly-come. the. again, here could be another chilly come. the cloud chilly night to come. the cloud neneinene— chilly night to come. the cloud remaining thickest across esene— remaining thickest across eastern _and. remaining thickest across eastern and as remaining thickest across. eastern _and as we eastern scotland. and as we eeeneesn— eastern scotland. and as we approach morning again eastern scotland. and as we- approach-morning again , approach monday morning again, we sewe— approach monday morning again, we could still— approach monday morning again, we could still see— approach monday morning again, we could still see some patchy eeeweews— we could still see some patchy eeeweews en— we could still see some patchy outbreaks of-but- we could still see some patchy outbreaks of but for most outbreaks of rain. but for most on outbreaks of rain. but for most en weneew— outbreaks of rain. but for most en weneew we— outbreaks of rain. but for most on monday we do— outbreaks of rain. but for most on monday we do start the new wenwne— on monday we do start the new working week. — on monday we do start the new working week. on— on monday we do start the new working week. on a fairly quiet nee— working week. on a fairly quiet note, some good— working week. on a fairly quiet note, some good sunshine around, especially— note, some good sunshine around, especially-western— note, some good sunshine around, especially western areas . especially for western areas. hopefullv_ especially for western areas. hopefully it'll— especially for western areas. hopefully it'll start to improve as hopefully it'll start to improve es we 90— hopefully it'll start to improve es we ge inne— hopefully it'll start to improve as we go into the— hopefully it'll start to improve as we go into the afternoon across eastern— as we go into the afternoon across eastern scotland and that neeuw— across eastern scotland and that really-up— across eastern scotland and that neeuw-ee nee— across eastern scotland and that neeuw-ee nee e- across eastern scotland and that really up for a fairly really sets us up for a fairly ewes— really sets us up for a fairly ewes spew— really sets us up for a fairly ewes spew en— really sets us up for a fairly quiet spell of weather most quiet spell of weather for most of quiet spell of weather for most en es— quiet spell of weather for most en es es— quiet spell of weather for most en es es we 90— quiet spell of weather for most of us as we go through the next new— of us as we go through the next new news.— of us as we go through the next few days. tuesday— of us as we go through the next few days. tuesday and wednesday week— few days. tuesday and wednesday week-sinner.— few days. tuesday and wednesday look-similar. some- look very similar. some good spews—en- look very similar. some good| spews—en ene spells of sunshine and in the sensnene— spells of sunshine and in the sunshinelshould- spells of sunshine and in the sunshine should feel sunshine it should feel eeeesennw— sunshine it should feel. pleasantly-there sunshine it should feel- pleasantly-there . the pleasantly warm out there. the newnse — pleasantly warm out there. the newnse ce— pleasantly warm out there. the newnse so we— pleasantly warm out there. the dewbs& co we tackle- pleasantly warm out there. the dewbs& co we tackle the issues of the day with real robust debate. both sides of the fence battling it out with me in the middle with my forthright opinions and views and often really interesting things happen because start with a because you start with a position and then by the end of the you find actually the debate you find actually i might have thought about might not have thought about that one. what this

that one. what we need in this sense— that one. what we need in this seenew es— that one. what we need in this sewnnw is we— that one. what we need in this country is two new— what we need in this country is two new political penees. — country is two new political eennes. vee— country is two new politicali parties. you-maybe country is two new political- parties. you-maybe think parties. you should maybe think about a 2024 calendar about doing a 2024 calendar michelle i'm michelle dewberry and i'm keeping right keeping you company right through this evening. through until 7:00 this evening. gb news is the people's channel. britain's watching

hello and welcome. this is . hello and welcome. this is sewn-s— . hello and welcome. this is calvin's sense— . hello and welcome. this is calvin's sense crusade- hello and welcome. this is calvin's sense crusade with me, the calvin's sense crusade with me, we reverend— calvin's sense crusade with me, the reverend calvin robinson on ween— the reverend calvin robinson on ween ev— the reverend calvin robinson on ween nv emine— the reverend calvin robinson on your tv online. and on your wireless— your tv online. and on your wireless today— your tv online. and on your wireless today ,_ your tv online. and on your wireless today , we will be wireless today, we will be eessessene— wireless today, we will be discussing the— wireless today, we will be discussing the future of conservatism - discussing the future of conservatism with author and seeewen— conservatism with author and speaker sebastian morello . the speaker sebastian morello. the penenes— speaker sebastian morello. the perenns engen— speaker sebastian morello. the parents anger at— speaker sebastian morello. the parents anger at the school in wenew— parents anger at the school in norfolk teaching— parents anger at the school in norfolk teaching pupils as young as seven years old— norfolk teaching pupils as young as seven years old that they can be eeneeneen— as seven years old that they can be pangender, whatever that is. ane— be pangender, whatever that is. and in— be pangender, whatever that is. and in ne— be pangender, whatever that is. and in the duel,— be pangender, whatever that is. and in the duel, my panellists wu— and in the duel, my panellists will be— and in the duel, my panellists will be discussing whether banks and financial— will be discussing whether banks and financial institutions snewe— and financial institutions should refusing to offer should be refusing to offer senwses— should be refusing to offer services-groups- should be refusing to offer services groups and services to groups and individuals— services to groups and individuals who dare to question