a major cold at the moment. so if i sneeze, live on air, it'll be a first for all of us. here we are on gb news, online, on tv, and on radio. tonight we'll be joined by an advocate for the vegan movement who says the health benefits of such a diet are amazing and we should all think about doing it. i'm interested to contemplate what the vegan diet means the the vegan diet means for the planet so we'll be planet as well. so we'll be joined by a dairy farmer from pembrokeshire about the pembrokeshire to talk about the impact vegan movement has impact the vegan movement has been his plus,

been having on his farm. plus, in between sneezes, we'll be heanng in between sneezes, we'll be hearing from campaign group save the shire who are making a plea to rescue the landscape that inspired john ronald. reuel tolkiens hobbit and lord of the rings from a huge new solar farm which would overshadow bilbo baggins . original bag end all of baggins. original bag end all of that and more coming up. but first, an update on the latest news from rory smith . thank you news from rory smith. thank you very much, wen.— news from rory smith. thank you very much, neil. itv_ news from rory smith. thank you very much, neil. itv says- 1:33 thank you very much, neil. itv says it found— very much, neil. itv says it found no— very much, neil. itv says it found no evidence of a relationship— found no evidence of a relationship between philip schoflem— relationship between philip schofield and— relationship between philip schofield and another employee during— schofield and another employee during an— schofield and another employee during an investigation in 2020. n...— during an investigation in 2020. the broadcaster— during an investigation in 2020. the broadcaster says the pair requested— the broadcaster says the pair requested and— the broadcaster says the pair requested and after hearing the but— requested and after hearing the rumours, but both— requested and after hearing the rumours, but both men denied they— rumours, but both men denied they were— rumours, but both men denied they were seeing— rumours, but both men denied they were seeing each other. the tv they were seeing each other. the wv presenter— they were seeing each other. the tv presenter resigned yesterday ewe— tv presenter resigned yesterday after admitting— tv presenter resigned yesterday after admitting he did have an effer— after admitting he did have an affair wm.— after admitting he did have an affair with a— after admitting he did have an affair with a young male eeueegwe— affair with a young male eeueegwe ,— affair with a young male colleague , which he described as colleague, which he described as on colleague, which he described as ew ewe— colleague, which he described as on wise but not— colleague, which he described as on wise but not illegal. he told the on wise but not illegal. he told we dewy— on wise but not illegal. he told we new wen— on wise but not illegal. he told the daily mail he— on wise but not illegal. he told

the daily mail he lied about the relationship— the daily mail he lied about the relationship to— the daily mail he lied about the relationship to his— the daily mail he lied about the relationship to his wife to his colleagues,— relationship to his wife to his colleagues, to— relationship to his wife to his colleagues, to his friends and to colleagues, to his friends and we we— colleagues, to his friends and we his agents.— colleagues, to his friends and to his agents. mail on sunday, jewwewee— to his agents. mail on sunday, journalist charlotte griffiths sewe— journalist charlotte griffiths ewe people— journalist charlotte griffiths ewe people we— journalist charlotte griffiths says people in the industry must have— says people in the industry must have known— says people in the industry must have known there— says people in the industry must have known there was a video of mm— have known there was a video of him having— have known there was a video of him having lunch— have known there was a video of him having lunch in a cafe with we— him having lunch in a cafe with the young— him having lunch in a cafe with the young men— him having lunch in a cafe with this young man. _ him having lunch in a cafe with this young man. ': him having lunch in a cafe with this young man . ': g this young man. and although i think he was 18 at the time, um , so it was the worst kept secret . you have to take him at secret. you have to take him at his word, you know, holly must have asked him about this. people around him must have asked him about this, and he must have lied. that's what he said. that's all we know said. and that's all we know right now. well, gb news weeewer— right now. well, gb news presenter-former- g well, gb news presenter former this presenter and former this morning— presenter and former this- morning—holmes morning host eamonn holmes has hit morning host eamonn holmes has hie-ex— morning host eamonn holmes has hit-ex colleague,- hit out at his ex colleague, eewne— hit out at his ex colleague, eewwg wee— hit out at his ex colleague, saying he's finally been caught out-social— saying he's finally been caught out-social media. - saying he's finally been caught out social media. he said for out on social media. he said for high— out on social media. he said for high rrerrereb— out on social media. he said for high members of— out on social media. he said for high members of itv, management knew— high members of itv, management knew wher— high members of itv, management knew we eon— high members of itv, management knew what sort of— high members of itv, management knew what sort of man he was. i reek— knew what sort of man he was. i never once took action to prevent— never once took action to prevent nrn — never once took action to prevent him controlling or newne— prevent him controlling or taking advantage of his position young— taking advantage of his position over young people . showbiz over young people. showbiz repener— over young people. showbiz reporter ellie— over young people. showbiz reporter ellie phillips told us ener— reporter ellie phillips told us that schofield's_ reporter ellie phillips told us that schofield's actions were rnen— that schofield's actions were more than inappropriate . r:3 more than inappropriate. he's saving— more than inappropriate. he's saying we— more than inappropriate. he's saying we not— more than inappropriate. he's saying it's not illegal, but

it's also about an abuse of power because phillip schofield is the was the face of this morning a massive position of power. and you've got a runner who, in the scheme of things within the scene, you know, within the scene, you know, within how it works behind the scenes is much lower down the rung in terms power. so it's rung in terms of power. so it's about power imbalance. about that power imbalance. i think. well, about that power imbalance. i think . well, another news air think. well, another news air peeeenper— think. well, another news air passenger have— well, another news air passenger have been "

issues also at border control, epeteptetnp— issues also at border control, epeteptetnp rer— issues also at border control, apologising for the disruption . apologising for the disruption. rne— apologising for the disruption. rne ren— apologising for the disruption. the port authority says the prepten — the port authority says the prepten nee— the port authority says the problem has now been fixed, but were— problem has now been fixed, but rnere re— problem has now been fixed, but there are still— problem has now been fixed, but there are still queues of cars and— there are still queues of cars and eeeeeen— there are still queues of cars and coaches waiting around 45 minute— and coaches waiting around 45 minute ee— and coaches waiting around 45 minute re a— and coaches waiting around 45 minutes as a man— and coaches waiting around 45 minutes as a man who was erreeren— minutes as a man who was arrested after— minutes as a man who was arrested after a _ minutes as a man who was arrested after a car crashed into— arrested after a car crashed into me— arrested after a car crashed into the downing street , gates into the downing street, gates nee— into the downing street, gates nee teen— into the downing street, gates has been charged— into the downing street, gates has been charged with making indecent— has been charged with making indecent images— has been charged with making indecent images of children. the 43 indecent images of children. the we wear— indecent images of children. the re weer ete— indecent images of children. the re weer ere wee— indecent images of children. the 43 year old was initially eerernee— 43 year old was initially detained on— 43 year old was initially detained on suspicion of eenperewe— detained on suspicion of dangerous driving. that was renewing— dangerous driving. that was following thursday's incident, but officers— following thursday's incident, but officers were _ following thursday's incident, but officers were later seen eeerenrne— but officers were later seen searching the _ but officers were later seen searching the boot of the car before— searching the boot of the car before it— searching the boot of the car before it was— searching the boot of the car before it was towed away. he's been— before it was towed away. he's been remanded— before it was towed away. he's been remanded in— before it was towed away. he's been remanded in custody after eppeenne— been remanded in custody after eppeennp tn— been remanded in custody after appearing in court— been remanded in custody after appearing in court on the wnretereo— appearing in court on the unrelated offence and will reeppeer— unrelated offence and will reappear next— unrelated offence and will reappear next month . to just reappear next month. to just stop— reappear next month. to just stop on— reappear next month. to just stop oil protests— reappear next month. to just stop oil protests have been erreereo— stop oil protests have been arrested for— stop oil protests have been arrested for disrupting the eeueener— arrested for disrupting the gallagher premiership rugby ninet— gallagher premiership rugby nnet er— gallagher premiership rugby final at twickenham. 37 year old doctor— final at twickenham. 37 year old doctor patrick— final at twickenham. 37 year old doctor patrick hart— final at twickenham. 37 year old doctor patrick hart from bristol eno— doctor patrick hart from bristol not no— doctor patrick hart from bristol not no weer— doctor patrick hart from bristol and 40 year old— doctor patrick hart from bristol and 40 year old sam johnson from neeex— and 40 year old sam johnson from neeex onto— and 40 year old sam johnson from essex ran onto the— and 40 year old sam johnson from essex ran onto the pitch midway rnrowen— essex ran onto the pitch midway rnrowen rne— essex ran onto the pitch midway through the first— essex ran onto the pitch midway through the first half of the

neon— through the first half of the match before _ through the first half of the match before throwing orange pent— match before throwing orange pernr powder— match before throwing orange paint powder onto the field. rtewepte — paint powder onto the field. playable was— paint powder onto the field. playable was suspended as the men were escorted from the entren— men were escorted from the ereown ow— men were escorted from the stadium by stewards as tv online our— stadium by stewards as tv online our pree— stadium by stewards as tv online our ptwe retro— stadium by stewards as tv online dup plus radio and— stadium by stewards as tv online dup plus radio and on tunein. rnre— dup plus radio and on tunein. rnre re— dup plus radio and on tunein. rnre e on— dup plus radio and on tunein. this is gb news— dup plus radio and on tunein. this is gb news nato back to . this is gb news nato back to. wet— neil the neil- the time wet- the time when wet— the time when governments neil the time when governments could offer— the time when governments could offer en— the time when governments could offer an explanation for what rnew-re— offer an explanation for what were none— offer an explanation for what they're doing and expect to have it they're doing and expect to have n eeeepreo— they're doing and expect to have n eeeepreo re— they're doing and expect to have it accepted is over— they're doing and expect to have it accepted is over the practise of it accepted is over the practise or lying— it accepted is over the practise on wine epon— it accepted is over the practise of lying about why they're doing eonernrne— of lying about why they're doing something, laying— of lying about why they're doing something, laying a false trail is something, laying a false trail re nopeteeew— something, laying a false trail is hopelessly and— something, laying a false trail is hopelessly and forever eopoeeo— is hopelessly and forever eopoeeo . — is hopelessly and forever exposed . c is hopelessly and forever- exposed . governments, whoever's exposed. governments, whoever's behind governments, the media are pushing the narratives of those governments are going to have to accept that with the advent of the internet and social media and the rest, we the interested and inquiring citizens, can find out for ourselves what's going on. we can't be fooled anymore.

whatever a government wants to do. more importantly , why they do. more importantly, why they want to do it , they're going to want to do it, they're going to have to pull on their big boy and big girl pants and tell the people the truth up front, because if they don't, we find out that truth anyway. and what they used to call a new york minute . which brings me to the minute. which brings me to the latest laughable hypocrisy by the amid the launch of the bbc amid the launch of verify, a new state sponsored ministry of truth, if ever there was one. the bbc's own newly stamped disinfo nation correspondent marianna spring revealed that as part of her own pursuit of truth, she had created fake social media profiles complete with made up names and photos . quote, i have names and photos. quote, i have some undercover accounts set up for bbc's americast podcast. she wrote these help in understanding the polarisation onune. understanding the polarisation online . this is fascinating to online. this is fascinating to see the least those accounts set up during the 2022 midterm elections are , larry, a faith elections are, larry, a faith and flag conservative. brittany

from the populist right gabriela the stressed sideliner mike hill, the democratic mainstay, and emma from the progressive left. all made up fiction . it's left. all made up fiction. it's self—evident that those accounts , fake and misleading, are disinformation or misinformation. and by their very existence, could presumably exacerbate the polarisation they're claimed to monitor. so bnngs they're claimed to monitor. so brings highfalutin claim in defence of the fake accounts is that they enable the pursuit of truth, whose kidding? who here? miss truths can cause really serious harm to society and to the people in them? she wrote, is a myth. truth the same as a lie. and if so , why not just use lie. and if so, why not just use that more straightforward and precise words lie ? or is the use precise words lie? or is the use of mistruth a slippery way of condemning and setting aside an alternative valid interpretation of events and reality that the bbc simply does not like and certainly doesn't want? widely circulated covid spring highlights her concerns about what she calls the conspiracy

theory movement . quote. and then theory movement. quote. and then there's also investigating other mistruths and the real world harm they can cause. she wrote . harm they can cause. she wrote. she writes about how the uk's conspiracy theory movement has evolved and intensified since the pandemic. let's remember that so much ridiculed as conspiracy theory is revealed in the fullness of time as truth , the fullness of time as truth, she's also determinedly looking for connections between conspiracy and far right figures . are we to conclude that only the so—called far right is to be subject to bbc scrutiny and that no one on the left , whatever the no one on the left, whatever the left, is now , has any views that left, is now, has any views that might be regarded as extreme. consider for example, the published views of one oscar bentley. now among the bbc's political fact checkers , bentley political fact checkers, bentley was described by the daily mail back in april as hard left, who has described conservative mps as lower than invertebrates and has said never trust a tory. bentley's job is to help fact

check the content of political debates . as a rule, a reasonable debates. as a rule, a reasonable person might have assumed, demanded demonstrable political impartiality , but apparently not impartiality, but apparently not according to that bbc fact checker. we must never trust a tory on account of them having snakelike anatomy . i would say snakelike anatomy. i would say his mindset appears less than objective. let me be clear. as we do say now that i have no faith whatever in the honesty of members of any political party over another labour tory, liberal, snp , nor indeed whether liberal, snp, nor indeed whether they have spines apart from a couple of honourable exceptions, i wouldn't trust them as far as i wouldn't trust them as far as i could spit them. but here is the bbc , funded by a compulsory the bbc, funded by a compulsory tax on the public seeking to claim the moral high ground. a lofty perch literally overlooking its own newsroom upon which to build a veritable fortress, a camelot of objectivity, trustworthiness and truth. this is the same bbc that has in recent times carried headunes has in recent times carried headlines like the one on the 7th of july 2021. rule rule racism. endorse it. why is our

countryside 98% white? and also made repeated uses of the triple whammy of pale stale and male objective of the bbc. i could go on and on about glaring inappropriateness of the bbc seeking to set itself up as a paragon of virtue. but the fact is that hypocrisy also exposes an inconvenient truth, which is that the state, as it seems to be now, so frustrated with regular people talking among themselves, doing their own research into topics that interest them and sharing information online , it has opted information online, it has opted for declaring itself the source of truth while dismissing other voices as mistruths, conspiracy theory. remember when jacinda ardern, former pm of new zealand, urged her citizens to make her government the sole source of truth in the land? if that didn't make your blood run cold in your veins, i don't know what would here in britain, the state broadcaster now seeks more and more. obviously to style its propagandists and activists as the ministry of truth. too late,

too late, though too many people here and around the world are now so sensitive to and therefore deliberately distanced from the state propaganda and so usefully immersed instead in legitimate sources of information . that's not information. that's not misinformation or disinformation. it's just information that the antics of those who would treat us like naughty children and read to us while we sit on the naughty step are too glaringly obvious ever to be trusted again . in the to be trusted again. in the truth, the actual truth of the world is self—evident . each of world is self—evident. each of us knows the difference between right and wrong without having to be told. we know when something feels wrong, sounds wrong, , or is wrong, smells wrong, or is wrong. some might choose to do the wrong thing anyway, or to stand silent while wrong goes about its murky business. but each knows the difference s just the same. the battle between truth and lies , between right truth and lies, between right and wrong is increasingly about straightforward fundamentals . straightforward fundamentals. the ownership and control of the land we live on, the source and

nature of the food we eat , land we live on, the source and nature of the food we eat, and that we must feed to our children and our freedom to ask questions of authority, freedom to go where we please in a free country without first proving our identity . freedom to buy and our identity. freedom to buy and sell in privacy , without the sell in privacy, without the state and banks monitoring what we're doing. freedom from a future in which decisions about what we can or cannot do with our money might be made not by us, but by others. we do not know if the prospect, the threat of some or all of this , and more of some or all of this, and more besides, feels wrong to you . besides, feels wrong to you. that's because it is what's being contemplated by some now foisted upon us now is wrong. they emergence of a bbc effort like verify as a symptom of a state more and more determined to be the only source of information . there's growing information. there's growing intention to make dissent first uncomfortable, and then increasingly impossible, should give everyone pause for thought. word choice is replaced by no choice or by nudging or perhaps coercion. a popular option must

be rightly suspicious of the motives on the part of those driving the change. i've already mentioned the land . what is the mentioned the land. what is the truth about state intentions regarding our land? specifically farmland? at this point, we absolutely need truth because it's literally about the ground beneath our feet that provides the very stuff of our lives. in the very stuff of our lives. in the netherlands , the government the netherlands, the government is loudly determined to drive farmers off the land. they have farmed for generations in line with the eu's natura 2000 regulations. a third of dutch cattle must go in order to combat a nitrogen crisis, a crisis that exists not in reality, but in the projections and predictions preferred by those in power and driving the so—called green agenda. the same is simmering on the other side of the atlantic. on the 10th of may, at an agriculture and climate summit hosted by the us department of agriculture. joe biden's climate tsar john kerry said net zero targets would not be reached without addressing greenhouse gas emissions from american farms . according to

american farms. according to kerry, farming creates a third of the world's total carbon emissions . as he said, cutting emissions. as he said, cutting those emissions had to be front and centre of the war on global warming, he has said. and centre of the war on global warming, he has said . government warming, he has said. government confiscation of farmers land was not off the table . if it's not off the table. if it's really the truth that we're trying to save the planet , trying to save the planet, shouldn't the priority be food independ dence? perhaps an approach involving growing natural good food as close to home as possible? an approach to eating fresh seasonal food rather than flying food in from thousands of miles away , who in thousands of miles away, who in their right mind would put central government in control of food ? as if history says food? as if history says government collectivisation of farming has ever gone? well, let's not forget that when stalin and mao took control of farmland, tens of millions died of starvation and disease. i'll happily go on record to say we're not being told the truth about why so much is being changed without our consent entities. we're supposed to trust . see, change is driven by trust. see, change is driven by the need to save the and the need to save the world and

to drive equity and diversity. i say the truth of it all is too uncomfortable for them to say out loud. i say the world is being changed in the name of control . all the many by the control. all of the many by the few old, same old control few same old, same old control of the land and 15 minute ghettos. digital currencies and id net none of it is about id net zero. none of it is about saving the world, and all of it's about control. i had hoped that after all the shouting down of questioning way of voices questioning the way government handled the covid debacle, might have got debacle, things might have got eafien debacle, things might have got easier. that speaking up on the latest issues of concern might have been accepted as the right thing to do. but the truth thing to do. but no, the truth is speaking out and asking is that speaking out and asking questions even more questions is now even more likely draw ridicule , insult likely to draw ridicule, insult and rather than and cancellation rather than being listened to. people are even more casually dehumanise and reduced to labels of the most offensive sort racist, anti semitic far right extremist calumnies that disgrace the spouter of the bile rather than its intended target. i've been on the receiving end of all of the above and more besides, and i hold the purveyors of such

misapplied filth in the lowest regard . but in the new normal, regard. but in the new normal, none of what used to be minded as the rules of polite discourse matters at all, and individuals are apparently to be reduced , are apparently to be reduced, traduced, rendered into something to be regarded as despicable and dismissive . all despicable and dismissive. all but here's the thing the truth has not moved and has not changed. the truth is where it always was and what it always was. if a government, always was and what it always was. if a government , its was. if a government, its propagandists and apparatchiks have to come up with a new office and a new label to try and persuade us, they're telling the truth, then i say , that ship the truth, then i say, that ship has sailed . has sailed. as i always say, that's my opinion, and you're free to disagree . keep your tweets and disagree. keep your tweets and emails coming throughout the show. you can email at gbviews@gbnews.uk . you can tweet gbviews@gbnews.uk. you can tweet me as well at gb news. and if there's time, we'll get to comments later on in the show. now, joining me throughout is

the fabulous and best selling author , laura dodsworth . laura, author, laura dodsworth. laura, bbc project verify. what do you think about the state broadcaster having to tell as it tells the truth ? there are a few tells the truth? there are a few rnrnee— tells the truth? there are a few rnrnee rner— tells the truth? there are a few things that stood _ tells the truth? there are a few things that stood out- 137 there are a few things that stood out from the announcement— things that stood out from the announcement which you've just eneepewereo— announcement which you've just encapsulated there in your nonotoewe— encapsulated there in your nonotopwe ,— encapsulated there in your monologue , and one is this is monologue, and one is this is a we— monologue, and one is this is a rnre ree— monologue, and one is this is a this real demonisation of the term — this real demonisation of the term conspiracy— this real demonisation of the term conspiracy theory. so eonepweew— term conspiracy theory. so conspiracy theory didn't exist as conspiracy theory didn't exist ee e tern— conspiracy theory didn't exist as a term before— conspiracy theory didn't exist as a term before the 1950s. the eoeotoerer— as a term before the 1950s. the sociologist karl— as a term before the 1950s. the sociologist karl popper coined it. sociologist karl popper coined in ann— sociologist karl popper coined in one we— sociologist karl popper coined it. and it's funny— sociologist karl popper coined it. and it's funny how as a wowe— it. and it's funny how as a wont we— it. and it's funny how as a world we survived perfectly well wnnowr— world we survived perfectly well without labelling— world we survived perfectly well without labelling people eonepweew— without labelling people conspiracy theorists so i women-r— conspiracy theorists so i wouldn't recommend that people owe— wouldn't recommend that people one headlong— wouldn't recommend that people dive headlong down rabbit holes and dive headlong down rabbit holes eno toee— dive headlong down rabbit holes and lose themselves in mr town-e.— and lose themselves in mr town-e. to— and lose themselves in mr ruth's. i'd hate— and lose themselves in mr ruth's. i'd hate that to happen , per— ruth's. i'd hate that to happen , our r— ruth's. i'd hate that to happen , our r rnrnr— ruth's. i'd hate that to happen , but i think really the eonepweew— , but i think really the conspiracy would be the idea we— conspiracy would be the idea that powerful— conspiracy would be the idea that powerful people don't counte— that powerful people don't collude and— that powerful people don't collude and conspire for their benefit.— collude and conspire for their own benefit. it— collude and conspire for their own benefit. it happens all the time.— own benefit. it happens all the time. um,— own benefit. it happens all the time. we eno— own benefit. it happens all the time. um, and you— own benefit. it happens all the time. um, and you know, there are time. um, and you know, there nenw— time. um, and you know, there are many conspiracy theories wnren— are many conspiracy theories which turned— are many conspiracy theories which turned out— are many conspiracy theories which turned out to be true.

we— which turned out to be true. that doesn't— which turned out to be true. that doesn't mean they all do. not— that doesn't mean they all do. not eoe— that doesn't mean they all do. not oo— that doesn't mean they all do. but some do take,— that doesn't mean they all do. but some do take, for example, the but some do take, for example, we won— but some do take, for example, rne you know,— but some do take, for example, the you know, the— but some do take, for example, the you know, the really awful mk the you know, the really awful wn unre— the you know, the really awful mk ultra program which was rnptenenreo— mk ultra program which was implemented by the us cia and rnwoweo— implemented by the us cia and rnwoweo us,— implemented by the us cia and involved us, british and ceneoren— involved us, british and canadian scientists who performed— canadian scientists who performed awful mind control experimente— performed awful mind control experiments on— performed awful mind control experiments on unwitting ernzene— experiments on unwitting enzene .— experiments on unwitting citizens . the— experiments on unwitting citizens . the other thing that citizens. the other thing that reeuw— citizens. the other thing that really erooo— citizens. the other thing that really stood out— citizens. the other thing that really stood out about the whole verify— really stood out about the whole were nine— really stood out about the whole were nine re— really stood out about the whole verify thing is who's who's fact oneewne— verify thing is who's who's fact eneewne rne— verify thing is who's who's fact checking the fact— verify thing is who's who's fact checking the fact checkers peeewee— checking the fact checkers because facts— checking the fact checkers because facts change information ewowee ano— because facts change information evolves. and there's also eonernrne— evolves. and there's also something known as the half—life of something known as the half—life on teete— something known as the half—life on neere. rnrnee— something known as the half—life of facts. things move on. take, for exempte— of facts. things move on. take, for exempte ,— of facts. things move on. take, for example , at— of facts. things move on. take, for example , at the beginning of for example, at the beginning of the for example, at the beginning of we cowo— for example, at the beginning of the covid pandemic , the idea the covid pandemic, the idea we— the covid pandemic, the idea we n— the covid pandemic, the idea we it went— the covid pandemic, the idea that it might have escaped from a that it might have escaped from e tep— that it might have escaped from e rep wee— that it might have escaped from a lab was really— that it might have escaped from a lab was really squashed and ewppreee— a lab was really squashed and ewppreee n.— a lab was really squashed and suppress it. and— a lab was really squashed and suppress it. and in fact, there were a number— suppress it. and in fact, there were a number of— suppress it. and in fact, there were a number of outlets that eeueo— were a number of outlets that eeueo wer— were a number of outlets that called that a— were a number of outlets that called that a conspiracy theory. so called that a conspiracy theory. so no— called that a conspiracy theory. so n-e— called that a conspiracy theory. so now it's considered quite prew— so now it's considered quite likely explanation for the onene— likely explanation for the onprne of— likely explanation for the origins of covid 19, not proven , per— origins of covid 19, not proven , our prew— origins of covid 19, not proven , but likely. another one was, i rnre— , but likely. another one was, i rnre re— , but likely. another one was, i mean, this is quite— , but likely. another one was, i mean, this is quite a specific per— mean, this is quite a specific out we— mean, this is quite a specific one, but the language about it erooo— one, but the language about it erooo ont— one, but the language about it erooo our to— one, but the language about it stood out to me— one, but the language about it stood out to me at the time. the

wee— stood out to me at the time. the roee wee— stood out to me at the time. the idea that, well,— stood out to me at the time. the idea that, well, we— stood out to me at the time. the idea that, well, we were told we— idea that, well, we were told we were— idea that, well, we were told that there was— idea that, well, we were told that there was no— idea that, well, we were told that there was no plausible nennern — that there was no plausible mechanism for— that there was no plausible mechanism for the covid vaccine to get— mechanism for the covid vaccine to get two— mechanism for the covid vaccine to get into breast— mechanism for the covid vaccine to get into breast milk and tnen— to get into breast milk and tnen tn— to get into breast milk and then, in fact,— to get into breast milk and then, in fact, studies showed it did then, in fact, studies showed it ttt-,— then, in fact, studies showed it ttt-, ttnw— then, in fact, studies showed it ttt-, ttnw ttnw- did in teeny, tiny, tiny quantities— did in teeny, tiny, tiny quantities and not proven to be wneeet— quantities and not proven to be wneeet et— quantities and not proven to be wneeet et en.— quantities and not proven to be unsafe at all. but— quantities and not proven to be unsafe at all. but it did cross . so— unsafe at all. but it did cross . so we— unsafe at all. but it did cross . so the terminology no ptewettte— . so the terminology no plausible mechanism comes down very— plausible mechanism comes down very etrone— plausible mechanism comes down very etronp. rte— plausible mechanism comes down very etronp. we to— plausible mechanism comes down very strong. it's to tell you wnet— very strong. it's to tell you we to— very strong. it's to tell you what to believe _ very strong. it's to tell you what to believe and then when peopte— what to believe and then when peopte eete— what to believe and then when peopte eett rt— what to believe and then when people said it might do, that was a conspiracy— people said it might do, that was a conspiracy theory, but it went— was a conspiracy theory, but it weent e— was a conspiracy theory, but it wasn't a conspiracy theory. the teete— wasn't a conspiracy theory. the facts evolved.— wasn't a conspiracy theory. the facts evolved. what troubles me more—tnowenl facts evolved. what troubles mei more _though, use more than anything, though, use of more than anything, though, use ot—eoneptreew- of labels like conspiracy tneortet— of labels like conspiracy theorist-the - of labels like conspiracy theorist the rest of of labels like conspiracy- theorist-the rest of it, theorist and all the rest of it, ent— theorist and all the rest of it, ent one— theorist and all the rest of it, and one government after another . -zeetent— and one government after another . -zeetent ott— and one government after another . -zealand did it.— and one government after another . -zealand did it. now- . new zealand did it. now seeking to suggest that there's only one source of truth that sounds incredibly clumsy and frustrated to me. that sounds like governments and their propagandists are just saying stop listening to people at all. just get the public to believe that no one is telling the truth except us. that's an example . except us. that's an example. ofsted administration surely they just can't debate anymore . they just can't debate anymore. yeah. to me it feels like the

teen— yeah. to me it feels like the death throes— yeah. to me it feels like the death throes of— yeah. to me it feels like the death throes of this in almost tntwetrtet— death throes of this in almost industrial censorship process tnet-e— industrial censorship process tnet-e going— industrial censorship process tnet-e potnp on— industrial censorship process that's going on. it smacks a bit of desperation— that's going on. it smacks a bit of desperation on— that's going on. it smacks a bit of desperation on so if you tnnettt— of desperation on so if you inhabit social— of desperation on so if you inhabit social media like i do, wow-u— inhabit social media like i do, wow-tt newe— inhabit social media like i do, you'll have seen— inhabit social media like i do, you'll have seen there were tnoweente— you'll have seen there were thousands of— you'll have seen there were thousands of negative comments etowt— thousands of negative comments etowt p,— thousands of negative comments about it, which— thousands of negative comments about it, which must if you work in about it, which must if you work tn tnet— about it, which must if you work tn tnet wntt— about it, which must if you work in that unit in— about it, which must if you work in that unit in bbc— about it, which must if you work in that unit in bbc verify feel nette— in that unit in bbc verify feel quite exhausting— in that unit in bbc verify feel quite exhausting and like an onetewent— quite exhausting and like an onetewent .— quite exhausting and like an onslaught . and— quite exhausting and like an onslaught . and i think marianna onslaught. and i think marianna sprtnee— onslaught. and i think marianna spnnpe eete— onslaught. and i think marianna springs said that— onslaught. and i think marianna springs said that she'd received nteopwntet— springs said that she'd received misogynist comments and it was very— misogynist comments and it was very nepetwe. — misogynist comments and it was very negative. what they're very negative. but what they're pernepe—te- very negative. but what they're pernepe—te eni perhaps not appreciating is an enormous populist strength of teens;— enormous populist strength of feeling misplaced , feeling that it's misplaced, tnet— feeling that it's misplaced, we were— feeling that it's misplaced, that there should be trusted source of information . why don't source of information. why don't peopte— source of information. why don't peopte treet— source of information. why don't peopte trwet tne— source of information. why don't people trust the bbc or the government— people trust the bbc or the government to— people trust the bbc or the government to be a sole source of information?— government to be a sole source of information? well, first of at,— of information? well, first of at, to— of information? well, first of at, to eew— of information? well, first of all, i'd say people should etwewe— all, i'd say people should etwewe-own- all, i'd say people should- always-own research, always do their own research, nee-— always do their own research, eel eote— always do their own research, never a sole source of never be a sole source of tntornetton— never be a sole source of information about anything, never be a sole source of inforiown,n about anything, never be a sole source of inforiown, their ut anything, never be a sole source of inforiown, their own |ything, never be a sole source of inforiown, their own research. their own, their own research. net— their own, their own research. net-ton-t— their own, their own research. but-don't-trust- their own, their own research. but don't trust back by but you don't gain trust back by tetttne— but you don't gain trust back by tetttnp peopte— but you don't gain trust back by telling people what believe. telling people what to believe. you know,— telling people what to believe. you know, trust— telling people what to believe. you know, trust an organic you know, trust is an organic ent— you know, trust is an organic ent-eonewntne- you know, trust is an organic and consuming process, and and time consuming process, and it and time consuming process, and tt—tne— and time consuming process, and tt—tne trwtn- it involves telling the truth over a period— it involves telling the truth over a period of— it involves telling the truth over a period of time and enowtne— over a period of time and showing yourself to have tntepntw. — showing yourself to have tntepntw. -. showing yourself to have integrity. i think showing yourself to have i integrity.-i think if

integrity. dodi and i think if peopte— integrity. dodi and i think if peopte ton-t— integrity. dodi and i think if people don't trust our politics, eettone— people don't trust our politics, actions - news, _ people don't trust our politics, actions news, they're actions and news, they're protettw— actions and news, they're protettw-. - actions and news, they'rei probably-. that's actions and news, they're- probably-. that's what i probably right to. that's what i teet— probably right to. that's what i feel. the governments and feel. i want the governments and other to just tell us other agencies to just tell us what they're really about. it's the false trails that are laid to distract us that really bother me . all of this is to bother me. all of this is to save the world. all of this is for such and such a noble cause when it's plainly not simply about that. there are other vested interests at play and just for goodness sake, have the decency arnie to get up in our faces and tell us the truth . i faces and tell us the truth. i know. can i've got time to give you— know. can i've got time to give you one— know. can i've got time to give you one example. _ know. can i've got time to give you one example. all of very i tttnp— you one example. all of very i that, tn— you one example. all of very i think, in fact,— you one example. all of very i think, in fact, we'll pick it up- _ think, in fact, we'll pick it up. tn— think, in fact, we'll pick it up. tn going- think, in fact, we'll pick it up. i'm going to- think, in fact, we'll pick it- up. i'm going to have to get to a break, but hold that thought, laura. i've got to go to a break. we'll be joined soon by liam keogh, the founder of palm pr, a food and drink public relations agency that advocates pr, a food and drink public relrthingsigency that advocates

live across the uk this is gb news radio . welcome back to neil news radio. welcome back to neil otter— news radio. welcome back to neil otwer ewe.— news radio. welcome back to neil oliver live. last— news radio. welcome back to neil oliver live. last month,— \ 1a: welcome back to neil oliver live. last month, one of

nrttetn-e— oliver live. last month, one of britain's largest— oliver live. last month, one of britain's largest dairy companies- britain's largest dairy companies launched a campaign teetet— companies launched a campaign teetet tw— companies launched a campaign backed by their— companies launched a campaign backed by their own research, erpwtne— backed by their own research, erpwtnp tnet— backed by their own research, arguing that the— backed by their own research, arguing that the rise of wepenten — arguing that the rise of veganism among young people is reeponettte— veganism among young people is responsible for— veganism among young people is responsible for the— veganism among young people is responsible for the dairy tntwetrw— responsible for the dairy tntwetrw .— responsible for the dairy industry. increasing responsible for the dairy industry . increasing precarity . industry. increasing precarity. tne— industry. increasing precarity. this condition,— industry. increasing precarity. this condition, titled don't ceneet— this condition, titled don't ceneet tne— this condition, titled don't cancel the cow. - this condition, titled don't cancel the cow. the campaign ewppeete— cancel the cow. the campaign ewppeete tnet— cancel the cow. the campaign suggests that people's choices not to— suggests that people's choices not to consume _ suggests that people's choices not to consume dairy are ill tntornet— not to consume dairy are ill informed and— not to consume dairy are ill informed and argues for the need to tetenee— informed and argues for the need to balance the— informed and argues for the need to balance the conversation when it to balance the conversation when tt oee— to balance the conversation when tt to— to balance the conversation when it comes to food— to balance the conversation when it comes to food and the health of it comes to food and the health ot ow— it comes to food and the health ot ptenet— it comes to food and the health ot ptenet .— it comes to food and the health of our planet . now, my first of our planet. now, my first tweet— of our planet. now, my first pweet tontptt— of our planet. now, my first guest tonight, and this is a topte— guest tonight, and this is a topte wen— guest tonight, and this is a topic very close— guest tonight, and this is a topic very close to my heart is tren— topic very close to my heart is tten keoen— topic very close to my heart is liam keogh, who's— topic very close to my heart is liam keogh, who's here to talk up liam keogh, who's here to talk wp ett— liam keogh, who's here to talk wp ett tntnee— liam keogh, who's here to talk up all things vegan. liam thanks for up all things vegan. liam thanks tor totne— up all things vegan. liam thanks tor totne tnte. — up all things vegan. liam thanks for doing this. i'll— up all things vegan. liam thanks for doing this. i'll see you tron— for doing this. i'll see you tron tne— for doing this. i'll see you from the top. _ for doing this. i'll see you from the top. you're not eetwettw— from the top. you're not eetwettw e— from the top. you're not actually a vegan, but you are. net— actually a vegan, but you are. net wow-re— actually a vegan, but you are. but you're you're— actually a vegan, but you are. but you're you're in favour of wet— but you're you're in favour of we ee— but you're you're in favour of we ee e— but you're you're in favour of we ee e ee— but you're you're in favour of that as a as a— but you're you're in favour of that as a as a choice. yes. so i eweee— that as a as a choice. yes. so i tree to— that as a as a choice. yes. so i pweee tt eteee— that as a as a choice. yes. so i guess i'd class myself as a flexitarian_ guess i'd class myself as a flexitarian ,_ guess i'd class myself as a flexitarian , an,— guess i'd class myself as a flexitarian , an, um, and flexitarian, an, um, and i etwoeete— flexitarian, an, um, and i advocate for— flexitarian, an, um, and i advocate for the for the vegan tntwetrw — advocate for the for the vegan tntwetrw ._ advocate for the for the vegan industry. i think— advocate for the for the vegan industry. i think it's- advocate for the for the vegan industry. c industry. i think it's an incredible part of the economy , incredible part of the economy, employs a lot of people, generates millions of pounds and there is a section of the

community and society in the media who wants to disparage it . but i think that's a shame because actually we're a world leader when it comes to vegan food and we should celebrate that. what about, though, the pten— that. what about, though, the pwen towerte— what about, though, the push towards highly processed out weeen— push towards highly processed out vegan food?— push towards highly processed out vegan food? i mean, i am all in out vegan food? i mean, i am all tn tevo— out vegan food? i mean, i am all tn tevo ot— out vegan food? i mean, i am all in favour of the— out vegan food? i mean, i am all in favour of the mighty vegetette— in favour of the mighty vegetable oil- in favour of the mighty vegetable oil and fruit and i wont— vegetable oil and fruit and i wowtt eee— vegetable oil and fruit and i would see all— vegetable oil and fruit and i would see all of— vegetable oil and fruit and i would see all of those products eetetretet— would see all of those products celebrated for— would see all of those products celebrated for what they are, seasonal, grown— celebrated for what they are, seasonal , grown locally, you seasonal, grown locally, you know.— seasonal, grown locally, you know. not— seasonal, grown locally, you know, not flown _ seasonal, grown locally, you know, not flown in from thousands _ know, not flown in from thousands of- know, not flown in from thousands of miles away . eat thousands of miles away. eat wnet— thousands of miles away. eat we prove— thousands of miles away. eat we prove tn— thousands of miles away. eat what grows in your patch and neve— what grows in your patch and neve tt— what grows in your patch and neve tt tor— what grows in your patch and have it for what— what grows in your patch and have it for what it is. what etowt— have it for what it is. what etowt ett— have it for what it is. what about all this— have it for what it is. what about all this heavily processed,- about all this heavily processed, so—called plant based toot— processed, so—called plant based toot ptent— processed, so—called plant based food plant based— processed, so—called plant based food plant based sausages, plant teeet— food plant based sausages, plant neeet tween— food plant based sausages, plant based burgers ?_ food plant based sausages, plant based burgers ? why does the based burgers? why does the tntwetrv— based burgers? why does the tntwetrv po— based burgers? why does the industry go that— based burgers? why does the industry go that way? i think there-e— industry go that way? i think tnere-e e— industry go that way? i think there's a huge diversity in the industry. i think, yeah, sure. there's a lot of heavily processed stuff as defined in all elements of the food and dnnk all elements of the food and drink industry. consumers tend to but actually , do to like that, but actually, do they? do they? is that what they vente— they? do they? is that what they went? wett— they? do they? is that what they went? wett. t— they? do they? is that what they want? well, i mean,— 0237 do they? is that what they want? well, i mean, processed toot.— want? well, i mean, processed toot. ween— want? well, i mean, processed toot. ween — want? well, i mean, processed toot. ween t— want? well, i mean, processed food. yeah i mean,- want? well, i mean, processed food. yeah : food. yeah i mean, you only need to look at the sales of heavily processed stuff to know that

it's popular. however, actually, processed stuff to know that it's veganir. however, actually, processed stuff to know that it's vegan industry,ar, actually, processed stuff to know that it's vegan industry, the ctually, processed stuff to know that it's vegan industry, the planty, the vegan industry, the plant based at the based movement has been at the forefront of saying, you know, based movement has been at the fortneed of saying, you know, based movement has been at the fortneed to saying, you know, based movement has been at the fortneed to havetg, you know, based movement has been at the fortneed to have a you know, based movement has been at the fortneed to have a cleaner)w, we need to have a cleaner ingredient profile. there are lots brands doing really, lots of brands doing really, really work that really great work in that regard. but look, the plant based in its based industry is in its infancy, it's not necessarily infancy, so it's not necessarily at the stage yet where it's at the final level of evolution. so yeah, sure, there's probably brands that need to improve their ingredient profile , need their ingredient profile, need to get better, need to go back to get better, need to go back to the core of what the product is, which is vegetables. but you know, the vegan industry is diverse. there's a huge range there. is diverse. there's a huge range there . is it feel that it rides there. is it feel that it rides enotewn— there. is it feel that it rides enotpwn wttn— there. is it feel that it rides shotgun with the— st:3”t:3 is it feel that it rides shotgun with the notion ”ts22 is it feel that it rides shotgun with the notion of eevtne— shotgun with the notion of saving -planet. - shotgun with the notion of saving planet. you know, shotgun with the notion of savingsay, planet. you know, shotgun with the notion of savingsay, the iet. you know, shotgun with the notion of savingsay, the mass)u know, shotgun with the notion of savingsay, the mass production when, say, the mass production of when, say, the mass production ot-otte— when, say, the mass production ot-otte-tne— when, say, the mass production of oils the wholesale of seed oils and the wholesale protwetton— of seed oils and the wholesale protwetton ot— of seed oils and the wholesale production of avocados and other protecte— production of avocados and other protwete te— production of avocados and other products is demonstrably deleterious— products is demonstrably deleterious to— products is demonstrably deleterious to the ecosystems ent— deleterious to the ecosystems ent tne — deleterious to the ecosystems and the environment and takes a toll and the environment and takes a tott on— and the environment and takes a tott on on— and the environment and takes a toll on on animal— and the environment and takes a toll on on animal life and all tne— toll on on animal life and all tne reet— toll on on animal life and all tne reet ot— toll on on animal life and all the rest of it— toll on on animal life and all the rest of it and— toll on on animal life and all the rest of it and yet it succeeds in— the rest of it and yet it succeeds in badging itself as eevtne— succeeds in badging itself as eevtne tne— succeeds in badging itself as saving the earth— succeeds in badging itself as saving the earth . saving the earth. i think the vegan industry has done very well to claim that mantle . and well to claim that mantle. and look, the food and drink industry needs to focus on being

as environmentally friendly as possible. we all live on this planet. we want it to be around for a very long time, for future generations. i personally think it's frankly, it's a red herring. frankly, it's a red herring. frankly, it's not going to have a tremendous impact on the environment. whether have environment. whether you have dairy or plant based milk. dairy milk or plant based milk. the reality is a lot of the environmental issues from environmental issues come from the there is a the very top 1. there is a report out the other day that said we just halve number said if we just halve the number of in this country of private jets in this country , meet our net zero , we'd meet our net zero emissions. so look, i think if the vegan industry is driving forward, the food and drink mark in general to be more environmentally friendly, fantastic . but i environmentally friendly, fantastic. but i think there's a lot more to it. there's a lot of other benefits to it. laura, what do you think? you've got a lot of, what do you think? you've got a tot ot. vow— what do you think? you've got a lot of, you know, _ what do you think? you've got a lot of, you know, quite- t:t2t “

such strong ideological belief such a strong ideological belief . a religion. . it's almost like a religion. what don't is when what i don't like is when there's a kind of a push to impose on people, like having meat free days in canteens at schools or public buildings. schools or in public buildings. i a bit of a top i think there's a bit of a top down effort to push on to people under of under the guise at least of there being an environmental benefit , which like they say, is benefit, which like they say, is probably a bit of a red herring because it's so much more complicated than that, having vast monocultures almonds vast monocultures of almonds can't possibly be better than having some local milk from cows . i do worry about it being pushed onto young people as a healthy diet because it's almost impossible to get nutritionally complete vegan diet for young people up. i mean, people growing up. i mean, there's a new cohort of scientists. it's a thousand of them together under them come together under the banner dublin banner called the dublin declaration that we declaration who said that we shouldn't be pushing veganism too hard because livestock agriculture is so important for the environment , but but also the environment, but but also for nutrition . i mean, there are for nutrition. i mean, there are billions of people around the world who would be eating more meat and be healthier meat and dairy and be healthier for if only they afford

for it if only they could afford it. do you think of that, it. what do you think of that, liam? idea that that because liam? the idea that that because it liam? the idea that that because tt-pwenee— liam? the idea that that because tt-pwenee tnte— liam? the idea that that because it-pushes this hyper- it also pushes this hyper neettnv— it also pushes this hyper healthy profile of veganism , um, healthy profile of veganism, um, wnen— healthy profile of veganism, um, wnen tnere-e— healthy profile of veganism, um, when there's definitely demonstrable scientifically, eepeetettv— demonstrable scientifically, especially for— demonstrable scientifically, especially for youngsters, very young— especially for youngsters, very vownp protten— especially for youngsters, very young problem in acquiring the necessary nutrients. / young problem in acquiring the necessary nutrients. v423" " necessary nutrients. yeah i mean i would challenge that. i think it's untrue actually that there is a top down push towards veganism. the reality is the government supports the dairy and meat industry to the tune of millions of pounds a year. rightly or wrongly. i think that's a good idea . public that's a good idea. public health england pushes the dairy consumption in this diet. and also, you know, we have free milk at school subsidised milk at school. so i don't really take that argument is it is it healthier? yeah, sure. there's loads to recommend a vegan diet. there's loads of recommend a flexitarian diet. but actually , flexitarian diet. but actually, you know, you can argue it on both ways. i think the reality is when it comes to food and drink, you just need to be

moderate . you need to be moderate. you need to be balanced and you do need to know the facts yourself. a little bit and read into it. so if it's if it's not better for the planet and if it's not necessarily better from a health point of view, what is it good for in terms of something that's being pushed? idealogue hinckley as oeonw— pushed? idealogue hinckley as somehow morally— :7 idealogue hinckley as somehow morally superior? well, eeetn— somehow morally superior? well, eeetn .— somehow morally superior? well, eeetn . t— somehow morally superior? well, epetn . t ton-t— somehow morally superior? well, epetn . t ton-t t— somehow morally superior? well, again , i don't i don't believe again, i don't i don't believe tt-e— again, i don't i don't believe tt-e tetne— again, i don't i don't believe it's being pushed by any pentewter— it's being pushed by any particular department. 2 particular department. i mean, if particular department. i mean, tt vow— particular department. i mean, tt vow onpere— particular department. i mean, if you compare the size, for example, of the vegan industry and the dairy and meat industry like dairy meat, billions , vegan like dairy meat, billions, vegan is millions. there's no , um, is millions. there's no, um, there's no push from government to really enforce it and wipe out dairy and meat. that's, that's just fantasy. it's not because not many- it's not because not many people want it. i because not many people want it. t neen— because not many people want it. t ptent— because not many people want it. i mean, plant based— because not many people want it. i mean, plant based foods are eontne— i mean, plant based foods are eontne ont— i mean, plant based foods are eontnp out ot— i mean, plant based foods are coming out of supermarket enetvee— coming out of supermarketi enetvee—not shelves because they're not eetttne— shelves because they're not eetttne-t— shelves because they're not selling-i-thinkl shelves because they're not. selling - i -think the selling well. i just think the reality is that the dairy and meat industry is massive. they employ people and the employ loads of people and the government and government supports them and the vegan industry its vegan industry is in its infancy. fantasy to infancy. i think it's fantasy to pretend the government is pretend that the government is somehow traditional somehow undermining traditional farming or meat in in farming or dairy or meat in in to vegan. now obviously

to advance vegan. now obviously you can argue that it's good for the environment . you can argue the environment. you can argue that it's good for health. my take on it is that it's just fantastic to have lots of choice and , you know, what's and actually, you know, what's really, that the really, really good is that the vegan is bringing more vegan industry is bringing more competition the industry. vegan industry is bringing more comfmeans the industry. vegan industry is bringing more comfmeans better|e industry. vegan industry is bringing more comfmeans better quality,:ry. that means better quality, better pricing, choice better pricing, better choice for consumers. if the meat for consumers. and if the meat industry and the dairy industry are struggling because veganism is promoting themselves as healthier or as better, better in the environment, then actually that's a really good incentive for them to improve in those areas as well. laura, would you would- those areas as well. laura, would you would you- laura, would you would you contemplate that would you would you contemplate tnet-e— would you would you contemplate that - a lifestyle _ would you would you contemplate that a lifestyle change? that such a lifestyle change? no.— that such a lifestyle change? to t— that such a lifestyle change? to t en— that such a lifestyle change? to t sav— that such a lifestyle change? no, i can say hand— that such a lifestyle change? no, i can say hand on- that such a lifestyle change? no, i can say hand on heart. i could never be vegan. definitely. you know, i have tried being a few tried being vegetarian a few times more when i was younger times as more when i was younger because sorry for because i felt sorry for animals. to say, i'm i'm animals. i have to say, i'm i'm now more peace with now much more at peace with eating animals. i think it's the natural human diet and i'm okay with i put my money with it. and i put my money where my mouth was recently. i chose to dispatch my own food. i thought, you know, am i am i so

comfortable eating meat because i'm just picking up, wrapped in cellophane from a supermarket ? cellophane from a supermarket? it if i had to if i had to kill butcher and eat the meat, could i do it? you know, could i do field to fork and so i tried it and i went to a small holding at and i went to a small holding at and a couple of farmers let me well, they trained me to dispatch a quail and i butchered it and ate it. and also a turkey. and i have to say, it was quite hard , especially the was quite hard, especially the quail. that was it felt very visceral and quite emotional about the feeling of then consuming something whose life you brought to a close. you had brought to a close. what was there a difference tneree — what was there a difference there? actually,- what was there a difference there? f sr2"r2 what was there a difference there? f there? actually, there was a difference. i worse about difference. i felt worse about the quail, i think it's the quail, and i think it's because it was so very small and the way i had to dispatch it was, this is going to sound really i think, shocking for people. but the traditional method birds method of killing little birds is cervical dislocation. and with animal like a quail with a small animal like a quail or on smallholding of that or on a smallholding of that size, simply pull the size, you would simply pull the head small and head off. it's too small and wriggly somebody who's in it wriggly for somebody who's in it to hold it and use an to kind of hold it and use an

axe. you just would risk axe. you just you would risk hurting more and lose your hurting it more and lose your fingers and then it was very small. it's really the size of a staff to. and so i felt quite a lot guilt actually about lot of guilt actually about taking for the size of taking life for the size of a starter. but did it. the starter. but i did it. the turkey. no, i didn't really have too much difficulty with it. i mean, felt extremely mean, i felt extremely responsible sure both responsible for making sure both birds stressed and the birds weren't stressed and the i felt very worried that the turkey was still alive after i'd dispatched it because the body twitches. but it wasn't . but to twitches. but it wasn't. but to be honest, it just looks like food. and i butchered it with the help of the farmer. it's a big, big animal to deal with and ate didn't feel guilty ate it and didn't feel guilty about the turkey. that felt a lot more comfortable. i think the harder. i think the quail was harder. i think it's appropriate you it's very appropriate that you did you did. i doff my did what you did. i doff my metaphorical— did what you did. i doff my metaphorical cap- did what you did. i doff my metaphorical cap to- 2 2 2 2 i doff my metaphorical cap to you. ask; did what you did. i doff my- metaphorical cap to you. we just neet— metaphorical cap to you. we just need to— metaphorical cap to you. we just need to te— metaphorical cap to you. we just need to be aware— metaphorical cap to you. we just need to be aware that you know meat when comes from a, you meat when it comes from a, you know, off shelf was know, wrapping off a shelf was was animal. ithink know, wrapping off a shelf was was animal. i think it's okay was an animal. i think it's okay to eat it. and i wouldn't say everyone should and kill everyone should go out and kill animals, but it's just being aware where comes from. aware of where it comes from. liam, for really

liam, thank you for really teteneet— liam, thank you for really balanced offering concerning the veeen— balanced offering concerning the veeen-tnent- balanced offering concerning the vegan -thank -veryl vegan lifestyle. thank you very neon— vegan lifestyle. thank you very neon-tt— vegan lifestyle. thank you very neon-n wee- vegan lifestyle. thank you very much - it was a - vegan lifestyle. thank you very much it was a really much for that. it was a really open— much for that. it was a really open-ent— much for that. it was a really- open-and-depiction open minded and honest depiction of open minded and honest depiction ot tnet— open minded and honest depiction ot tnet .— open minded and honest depiction ot tnet . so— open minded and honest depiction ot tnet . so pone— open minded and honest depiction of that . so going to— open minded and honest depiction of that . so going to a break now of that. so going to a break now etter— of that. so going to a break now etter wnen— of that. so going to a break now after which i'll— of that. so going to a break now after which i'll be— of that. so going to a break now after which i'll be joined nopetwttv— after which i'll be joined hopefully by— after which i'll be joined hopefully by dairy farmer from hopefully by a dairy farmer from pembrokeshire— hopefully by a dairy farmer from pembrokeshire says the vegan pembrokeshire who says the vegan movement—untold- movement has caused untold teneee— movement has caused untold teneee to— movement has caused untold tenepe to we— movement has caused untold damage to his farm and business. stew— damage to his farm and business. stew tenet—

completely unimaginable . we are completely unimaginable. we are putting the cart before the horse as . welcome back to putting the cart before the horse as. welcome back to neil ottver— horse as. welcome back to neil ottver ttve— horse as. welcome back to neil oliver live. before— welcome back to neil oliver live. before the break, we neet— oliver live. before the break, we heard from _ oliver live. before the break, we heard from liam keogh about the we heard from liam keogh about tne tenettte— we heard from liam keogh about the benefits of— we heard from liam keogh about the benefits of veganism. but wnet— the benefits of veganism. but we tnpeet— the benefits of veganism. but what impact does the push for all what impact does the push for ett tntnee— what impact does the push for all things plant— what impact does the push for all things plant based have on eetetttenet— all things plant based have on established farms and community as established farms and community ee wette— established farms and community ee wette net-e— established farms and community as well? let's ask— established farms and community as well? let's ask pembrokeshire terrner— as well? let's ask pembrokeshire terrner steve— as well? let's ask pembrokeshire farmer steve evans. steve are you— farmer steve evans. steve are vow tneree— farmer steve evans. steve are vow tneree t— farmer steve evans. steve are you there? i am— farmer steve evans. steve are you there? i am here. 222t2 you there? i am here. i am here. hi, you there? i am here. i am here. nt. seve— you there? i am here. i am here. hi, steve. thanks— you there? i am here. i am here. hi, steve. thanks for— you there? i am here. 2222 hi, steve. thanks for joining wnet— hi, steve. thanks for joining me. what kind— hi, steve. thanks for joining me. what kind of farm do you run 7 we— me. what kind of farm do you run 7 we run— me. what kind of farm do you run 7 we e— me. what kind of farm do you run ? we run a mixed— me. what kind of farm do you run ? 2 2 ? we run a mixed business, predominantly dairy cows. we also grow some cereals. um some wheat, some barley , some maize ,

wheat, some barley, some maize, uh, crops as well. um we are in a rotation with a large scale vegetable grower who grows cauliflowers, cabbage , leeks, cauliflowers, cabbage, leeks, carrots , potatoes . and we work carrots, potatoes. and we work through and through its um. yeah. so we're a multi spur business then ? should we say no business then? should we say no ? my previous guest, who was etvoeettne— 7’ my previous guest, who was advocating veganism , was advocating veganism, was ewppeettnp— advocating veganism, was suggesting that it was very enett— suggesting that it was very enett .— suggesting that it was very small . well,— suggesting that it was very small . well, and you know, small. well, and you know, eonperet— small. well, and you know, eonperet to— small. well, and you know, compared to dairy and meat and, and livestock— compared to dairy and meat and, and livestock production, it was and livestock production, it was every— and livestock production, it was every ettpnt— and livestock production, it was a very slight presence. but vow-re— a very slight presence. but you're obviously finding it has a you're obviously finding it has e etpnttteent— you're obviously finding it has a significant impact on what vow-re— a significant impact on what vow-re etowt— a significant impact on what vow-re etowt .— a significant impact on what you're about. it's a significant impact on what you're about . it's interesting you're about. it's interesting ent— you're about. it's interesting ent t— you're about. it's interesting and i appreciate— you're about. it's interesting and i appreciate his open mindedness_ and i appreciate his open mindedness this early on because it's mindedness this early on because we twe— mindedness this early on because we ttte tron — mindedness this early on because it's like from my— mindedness this early on because it's like from my side , i'm it's like from my side, i'm totettv— it's like from my side, i'm totettv open— it's like from my side, i'm totally open minded because at the totally open minded because at tne ent— totally open minded because at tne ent ot— totally open minded because at the end of the— totally open minded because at the end of the day, we're a meet— the end of the day, we're a mixed business. c.

mixed business. so, um, we have opportunities. um to clip the ticket, if you like , via ticket, if you like, via multiple sources . the the vegan multiple sources. the the vegan market hasn't really hit the dairy industry. market hasn't really hit the dairy industry . um per se. what dairy industry. um per se. what is hitting farmers confidence in particular is the amount of misinfo formation out there . um, misinfo formation out there. um, you know, we are deemed as satan for the environment. um you know, we've been farming for a millennia . i'm fourth generation millennia. i'm fourth generation on, on our farm. um you know, there is so much misinformation out there about food choice, um, about dietary advice . um and about dietary advice. um and farmers are generally pretty sick and tired of it. um, that is our greatest challenge is actually countering the misinformation , um, dealing with misinformation, um, dealing with the huge, um , sort of cost of

the huge, um, sort of cost of production rises. we faced over the last year. so our , the the last year. so our, the biggest threat to our business isn't from veganism per se, because at the end of the day it only, it only represents sort of 4 or 5% of the market share. um, you know, we've had, you know , you know, we've had, you know, canter statistics over the last number of years have shown the veganism in particular has been pretty consistent in percentage terms of the population . ian terms of the population. ian yes, there are more vegans, yes, because the population is growing . yes, there are more growing. yes, there are more meat eaters because the population is growing. so is veganism. a massive threat to the industry ? uh, no . when you the industry? uh, no. when you talk the industry? uh, no. when you tett etowt— the industry? uh, no. when you talk about when _ the industry? uh, no. when you talk about when you— 27 2 when you talk about when you talk, when you talk about when you talk, when vow tetr— talk about when you talk, when vow tett etowt— talk about when you talk, when you talk about misinformation , you talk about misinformation, tnet-e— you talk about misinformation, tnet-e vow— you talk about misinformation, that's your major— you talk about misinformation, that's your major problem . what that's your major problem. what wowtt— that's your major problem. what wowtt te— that's your major problem. what wowtt te vow— that's your major problem. what would be your biggest bugbear? you would be your biggest bugbear? vow know.— would be your biggest bugbear? you know, what— would be your biggest bugbear? you know, what are you sick and tree— you know, what are you sick and ttret ot— you know, what are you sick and tired of hearing— you know, what are you sick and tired of hearing levelled at vow— tired of hearing levelled at vowr tntwetrv— tired of hearing levelled at your industry ?_ tired of hearing levelled at your industry ? be that you would your industry? be that you would say your industry? be that you would eev ee— your industry? be that you would say as demonstrably false . the

say as demonstrably false. the ttpeeet— say as demonstrably false. the ttpgeet one— say as demonstrably false. the biggest one that— say as demonstrably false. the biggest one that it brings a ente— biggest one that it brings a entte to— biggest one that it brings a entte to nv— biggest one that it brings a smile to my face quite often is were— smile to my face quite often is tnere wee— smile to my face quite often is tnere e— smile to my face quite often is there was a report— smile to my face quite often is there was a report , an oxford there was a report, an oxford report— there was a report, an oxford repon us— there was a report, an oxford repon us or— there was a report, an oxford report us or compiled a few veere— report us or compiled a few veere eeo— report us or compiled a few veere ego . — report us or compiled a few years ago . and- report us or compiled a few years ago . and it- report us or compiled a few years ago . ' c years ago. and it seems to be the go to report in support of veganism across the world. now there was no um. uh accountancy in, in that report for water usage. i'm in pembrokeshire . we usage. i'm in pembrokeshire. we get two metres of rain a year yet they classify dairy as a water hog . well, we can grow water hog. well, we can grow grass for fun here. we don't need to irrigate . we're on need to irrigate. we're on borehole water for. for drinking water. we have to use mains water. we have to use mains water granted for washing, milking equipment, things like that. milking equipment, things like that . but we milking equipment, things like that. but we are milking equipment, things like that . but we are not water hogs. that. but we are not water hogs. it's an interesting one as well. is around nitrogen use and cows can harvest their own grass. they can spread their own manure and grass will grow again. again

that's all we need is, is what's coming out of the air. you know, in terms of moisture. so there is no because the way that study was compiled , there was no was compiled, there was no regional sort of acceptance . it regional sort of acceptance. it was all just all put into one basket. right. agriculture to livestock farming, just bear with me while i bring in my studio guest, laura dodsworth . studio guest, laura dodsworth. laura, what do you think is trtvtne— laura, what do you think is trtvtne tte— laura, what do you think is tnvtnp to t— laura, what do you think is driving it? i mean, even liam eete.— driving it? i mean, even liam eete. vow— driving it? i mean, even liam eete. vow know.— driving it? i mean, even liam said, you know, that it wasn't etowt— said, you know, that it wasn't etowt tne — said, you know, that it wasn't about the environment, pentewtertv— about the environment, particularly per se . why? why particularly per se. why? why wowtt— particularly per se. why? why wowtt vow— particularly per se. why? why wowtt vow eev— particularly per se. why? why would you say that? the traditional— would you say that? the traditional industry is being demonised?_ traditional industry is being demonised? steve the word demonised? steve used the word eete— demonised? steve used the word eete tn— demonised? steve used the word eete tn vow— demonised? steve used the word safe in, you know,— demonised? steve used the word safe in, you know, if it's not trwtv— safe in, you know, if it's not trwtv etowt— safe in, you know, if it's not truly about the _ safe in, you know, if it's not truly about the environment, wnet— truly about the environment, we te— truly about the environment, we te tt— truly about the environment, what is it about?— truly about the environment, what is it about? 222 c what is it about? i don't tetteve— what is it about? i don't believe what liam was saying. i think he said it in good faith. but we do know that there are targets to reduce meat and dairy consumption. why are set out by the un or but why if it's not? i mean, steve's contending there , i mean, steve's contending there . tt-e— i mean, steve's contending there . we not— i mean, steve's contending there

. we not newne— i mean, steve's contending there , it's not having that , you , it's not having that, you know.— , it's not having that, you know. we— , it's not having that, you know, that dreadful impact on the environment. _ know, that dreadful impact on the environment. and if he is nont— the environment. and if he is rtent .— the environment. and if he is rtent . wn— the environment. and if he is right, uh, what— the environment. and if he is right , uh, what else would be right, uh, what else would be tne— right, uh, what else would be the motivation— right, uh, what else would be the motivation for taking away thew— the motivation for taking away tne. tne— the motivation for taking away tne. tne tetrv— the motivation for taking away the, the dairy and the meat tntwetrve— the, the dairy and the meat industry? because because people neve— industry? because because people neve pot— industry? because because people neve get wet— industry? because because people have got their head— industry? because because people have got their head in the etowte— have got their head in the clouds about— have got their head in the clouds about it. 4:31. clouds about it. you know, you're talking about scientists and labs and behavioural scientist and technocrats thinking they can make thinking that they can make these big decisions for these big sweeping decisions for whole, you know, for the globe . whole, you know, for the globe. but of course, different parts of are different. of the world are different. pembrokeshire is basically god's own and, and just let own country and, and just let just let the cows and the livestock and the farms do what they're good at. steve what will happen the environment of happen to the environment of pembrokeshire if, you know, if there was be the demise of there was to be the demise of there was to be the demise of the of traditional the kind of traditional land management are an management that that you are an integral of . management that that you are an integral of. there management that that you are an integral of . there was a integral part of. there was a terrner— integral part of. there was a former defra_ integral part of. there was a former defra minister- g there was a former defra minister posted on twttten— former defra minister posted on twttter. ne— former defra minister posted on twitter. he was— former defra minister posted on twitter. he was abroad and i tntnt— twitter. he was abroad and i tntnt ne— twitter. he was abroad and i think he was— twitter. he was abroad and i think he was in— twitter. he was abroad and i think he was in romania. he poetet— think he was in romania. he poetet e— think he was in romania. he posted a short— think he was in romania. he posted a short video of how teewtttwt— posted a short video of how beautiful the _ posted a short video of how beautiful the scenery was. i i eettet— beautiful the scenery was. i i eettet owt— beautiful the scenery was. i i called out his— beautiful the scenery was. i i called out his bs—

beautiful the scenery was. i i called out his bs and i said, wow— called out his bs and i said, wow eowtt— called out his bs and i said, you could be— called out his bs and i said, you could be in— called out his bs and i said, you could be in pembrokeshire ent— you could be in pembrokeshire ent t— you could be in pembrokeshire ent t eneret— you could be in pembrokeshire and i shared a— you could be in pembrokeshire and i shared a video on my twttter— and i shared a video on my twitter account— and i shared a video on my twitter account of pembrokeshire. beautiful woottenrt— pembrokeshire. beautiful woodland, beautiful grass , uh, woodland, beautiful grass, uh, eettte— woodland, beautiful grass, uh, eettte owt— woodland, beautiful grass, uh, cattle out grazing in absolutely teewtttwt— cattle out grazing in absolutely teewtttwt .— cattle out grazing in absolutely beautiful , beautiful place to beautiful, beautiful place to be. beautiful, beautiful place to te. wnet— beautiful, beautiful place to be. what would— beautiful, beautiful place to be. what would happen in pembrokeshire— be. what would happen in pembrokeshire in particular? i wett— pembrokeshire in particular? i mean, neil, you've been to pembrokeshire,— mean, neil, you've been to pembrokeshire, you filmed down nere— pembrokeshire, you filmed down nere tn— pembrokeshire, you filmed down nere tn tne— pembrokeshire, you filmed down here in the past.— pembrokeshire, you filmed down here in the past. you know, vow-re— here in the past. you know, vowe twttv— here in the past. you know, you're fully aware how beautiful it you're fully aware how beautiful tt te— you're fully aware how beautiful tt te town— you're fully aware how beautiful it is down here,— you're fully aware how beautiful it is down here, but it would reptttv— it is down here, but it would reptttv tt— it is down here, but it would rapidly it wouldn't go back to the temperate— rapidly it wouldn't go back to the temperate rainforest that tnev— the temperate rainforest that tnev etetn — the temperate rainforest that they claim pembrokeshire has . it they claim pembrokeshire has. it wowtt— they claim pembrokeshire has. it would become— they claim pembrokeshire has. it would become bracken bramble vee— would become bracken bramble vee- nv— would become bracken bramble vee- nv e— would become bracken bramble yes. by a diverse,— would become bracken bramble yes. by a diverse, of course , yes. by a diverse, of course, twt— yes. by a diverse, of course, twt tt— yes. by a diverse, of course, but it would _ yes. by a diverse, of course, but it would be— yes. by a diverse, of course, but it would be an eyesore . um, but it would be an eyesore. um, vou— but it would be an eyesore. um, vow know— but it would be an eyesore. um, vow tnow .— but it would be an eyesore. um, you know , within— but it would be an eyesore. um, you know , within 3— but it would be an eyesore. um, you know , within 3 to 4 years. you know, within 3 to 4 years. ween— you know, within 3 to 4 years. ween en.— you know, within 3 to 4 years. ween pm, twt— you know, within 3 to 4 years. yeah um, but the— you know, within 3 to 4 years. yeah um, but the problem, the poten— yeah um, but the problem, the protten ten-t— yeah um, but the problem, the problem isn't that— yeah um, but the problem, the problem isn't that it isn't, it ten-t— problem isn't that it isn't, it ten-t tne— problem isn't that it isn't, it isn't the eyesore— problem isn't that it isn't, it isn't the eyesore isn't the tt-e— isn't the eyesore isn't the issue. it's where the hell does toot— issue. it's where the hell does our food come— issue. it's where the hell does our food come from? absolutely steve— our food come from? absolutely steve evene— our food come from? absolutely steve tvene t— our food come from? absolutely steve evans i can't— our food come from? absolutely steve evans i can't agree- our food come from? absolutely steve evans i can't agree more. the very thought that you raise, the spectre of pembrokeshire

becoming find an becoming an eyesore. i find an unbearable and yes , unbearable concept. and yes, where is the food supposed to come from without people like yourself? i'm just if i could just jump in. uh, laura made the justjump in. uh, laura made the potnt— justjump in. uh, laura made the potnt tnet— justjump in. uh, laura made the potnt tnet vow— justjump in. uh, laura made the point that you know,— 2 uh, laura made the point that you know, and we're tetttne— point that you know, and we're tetttnp etowt— point that you know, and we're talking about what is driving the— talking about what is driving the .— talking about what is driving the . were— talking about what is driving the . were e— talking about what is driving this . yara a fertiliser company this. yara a fertiliser company are this. yara a fertiliser company openne— this. yara a fertiliser company opentnp wp— this. yara a fertiliser company opentnp wp e— this. yara a fertiliser company are opening up a new fertiliser ptent— are opening up a new fertiliser ptent enontv— are opening up a new fertiliser ptent enontv tn— are opening up a new fertiliser plant shortly in the uk . great. plant shortly in the uk. great. wontertwt. — plant shortly in the uk. great. wonderful. you— plant shortly in the uk. great. wonderful. you know, less secure tertttteer— wonderful. you know, less secure tenttteer ewpptv— wonderful. you know, less secure tenttteer ewpptv .— wonderful. you know, less secure fertiliser supply . what makes fertiliser supply. what makes tertttteer— fertiliser supply. what makes fertiliser fossil— fertiliser supply. what makes fertiliser fossil fuel? who is tne— fertiliser fossil fuel? who is tne cro— fertiliser fossil fuel? who is tne cto ot— fertiliser fossil fuel? who is the ceo of yara— fertiliser fossil fuel? who is the ceo of yara petter ? um oh, the ceo of yara petter? um oh, wnet-e— the ceo of yara petter? um oh, wnet-e nte— the ceo of yara petter? um oh, what's his name?— the ceo of yara petter? um oh, what's his name? i— the ceo of yara petter? um oh, what's his name? i do apologise . sttttweter.— what's his name? i do apologise . stillwater. who— what's his name? i do apologise . stillwater. who is— what's his name? i do apologise . stillwater. who is one of the key— . stillwater. who is one of the tev ptevere— . stillwater. who is one of the tev ptevere tn— . stillwater. who is one of the key players in the— . stillwater. who is one of the key players in the eat—lancet orpenteetton— key players in the eat—lancet organisation ._ key players in the eat—lancet organisation . and what have they organisation. and what have they teen— organisation. and what have they been advocating— organisation. and what have they been advocating ?_ organisation. and what have they been advocating ? they've been been advocating? they've been etvoeettne— been advocating? they've been advocating veganism plant based ttete. — advocating veganism plant based ttete. so— advocating veganism plant based ttete. so ne— advocating veganism plant based ttete. so ne te— advocating veganism plant based diets. so he is quite happy to sit diets. so he is quite happy to ett tnere— diets. so he is quite happy to ett tnere ee— diets. so he is quite happy to sit there as ceo— diets. so he is quite happy to sit there as ceo of yara . to sit there as ceo of yara. to protwee— sit there as ceo of yara. to produce fertiliser on off fossil twete— produce fertiliser on off fossil twete to—

produce fertiliser on off fossil fuels to sell— produce fertiliser on off fossil fuels to sell to— produce fertiliser on off fossil fuels to sell to us the farmer. vow— fuels to sell to us the farmer. vow know. — fuels to sell to us the farmer. vow know. we — fuels to sell to us the farmer. you know, we use— fuels to sell to us the farmer. you know, we use non—organic tertttteere— you know, we use non—organic fertilisers here,— you know, we use non—organic fertilisers here, we— you know, we use non—organic fertilisers here, we use entttetet— fertilisers here, we use artificial fertilisers . he is artificial fertilisers. he is ewtte— artificial fertilisers. he is quite happy— artificial fertilisers. he is quite happy to sell them . sell quite happy to sell them. sell it quite happy to sell them. sell tt to— quite happy to sell them. sell tt to we— quite happy to sell them. sell it to us. well— quite happy to sell them. sell it to us. well that's a financial— it to us. well that's a financial decision that isn't envtntne— financial decision that isn't envtntnp to— financial decision that isn't anything to do— financial decision that isn't anything to do with the environment.- anything to do with the environment. that is purely ttnenetet— environment. that is purely financial. so— environment. that is purely financial. so he— environment. that is purely financial. so he needs to make up financial. so he needs to make wp nte— financial. so he needs to make wp nte ntnt— financial. so he needs to make up his mind along— financial. so he needs to make up his mind along with his good tetv— up his mind along with his good tetv wne— up his mind along with his good lady wife. what— up his mind along with his good lady wife. what on— up his mind along with his good lady wife. what on earth they eetwettv— lady wife. what on earth they actually want. _ lady wife. what on earth they actually want. c actually want. it's a conversation that needs to keep going. steve evans pembrokeshire , thank you very much for your time this evening. coming up, i'll joined by campaigner i'll be joined by the campaigner trying prevent a solar power trying to prevent a solar power station built on the area station being built on the area of the country that inspired the shire tolkien's hobbit see .

animal ah, there you are. welcome back to neil oliver live it was a landscape that lord of the rings author j.r.r. tolkien described authorj.r.r. tolkien described as more like home to me than any

other part of the world. the ancient trees and rolling farmland near the village of dormston in worcestershire were the inspiration for the home of the inspiration for the home of the hobbits in his fantasy land, middle earth . the hobbits in his fantasy land, middle earth. but part of it could be lost if plans for a huge 287 acre solar farm get the go ahead. backers say the project would generate enough energy to power more than 18,000 homes, but that hasn't stopped more than 2000 campaigners sending letters calling for a halt to the plans. sending letters calling for a halt to the plans . among them halt to the plans. among them save the shire campaigner laura gretton, who joins me now. hello . laura can you hear me? laura how imminent and menacing is this threat to the landscape . this threat to the landscape. this is massive, but i think the wet— this is massive, but i think the ttret tntne— this is massive, but i think the ttret tntne to— this is massive, but i think the first thing to note— this is massive, but i think the first thing to note is that ettnowen— first thing to note is that although the— first thing to note is that although the management company who although the management company wno ee— although the management company wno tn— although the management company who are in charge— although the management company who are in charge of— although the management company who are in charge of the ptenntne— who are in charge of the planning application liked to teeertte— planning application liked to teeertte tt— planning application liked to describe it as— planning application liked to describe it as a— planning application liked to describe it as a solar panel tern.— describe it as a solar panel tern. eo— describe it as a solar panel farm, so that— describe it as a solar panel farm, so that people have this

envteeeert— farm, so that people have this envisaged, envisage sort of toeet— envisaged, envisage sort of local lambs— envisaged, envisage sort of local lambs frolicking around ent— local lambs frolicking around ent nttttne— local lambs frolicking around and milking cows, grazing the tweetowe— and milking cows, grazing the luscious grass.— and milking cows, grazing the luscious grass. but that is not tne— luscious grass. but that is not tne aa— luscious grass. but that is not the case. this— luscious grass. but that is not the case. this is— luscious grass. but that is not the case. this is a— luscious grass. but that is not the case. this is a large scale tntwetrtet— the case. this is a large scale industrial power— the case. this is a large scale industrial power station in the ntttte— industrial power station in the ntttte ot— industrial power station in the middle of our— industrial power station in the middle of our beautiful countryside— middle of our beautiful countryside and this is the last renetntne— countryside and this is the last remaining landscape of j.r.r. tottten-e— remaining landscape of j.r.r. tolkien's and— remaining landscape of j.r.r. tolkien's and once it's gone, tnet-e— tolkien's and once it's gone, tnet-e tt— tolkien's and once it's gone, that's it. and— tolkien's and once it's gone, that's it. and it's— tolkien's and once it's gone, that's it. and it's we're never going— that's it. and it's we're never potne to— that's it. and it's we're never potnp to pet— that's it. and it's we're never potnp to pet tt— that's it. and it's we're never going to get it back. �*ftt�*2vf1 going to get it back. what looking— going to get it back. what looking there at computer generated obviously cgi of what the arrival of the of the panels would look like and it does look intimidating how much support are you are you garnering for what you're trying to achieve anyone apart from apart from regular people are there any big voices or people with the ability to effect change involved . yeah, this is massive involved. yeah, this is massive for the local area , it's j.r.r. for the local area, it's j.r.r. tolkien is someone who the locals are incredibly proud of. so recently we had a extra

orttnerv— so recently we had a extra ordinary parish— so recently we had a extra ordinary parish council meeting wnere— ordinary parish council meeting where hundreds— ordinary parish council meeting where hundreds of people turned up where hundreds of people turned wp on— where hundreds of people turned wp on eveeee— where hundreds of people turned up on average. normally these neettnee— up on average. normally these neettnpe ontv— up on average. normally these meetings only sort of encourage pernepe— meetings only sort of encourage pernepe nevte— meetings only sort of encourage perhaps maybe five or maybe ten toeete — perhaps maybe five or maybe ten toeete twt— perhaps maybe five or maybe ten locals, but there _ perhaps maybe five or maybe ten locals, but there are literally nwntrete— locals, but there are literally hundreds queuing to get into the vttteee— hundreds queuing to get into the vttteee nett— hundreds queuing to get into the village hall to— hundreds queuing to get into the village hall to all— hundreds queuing to get into the village hall to all have their say— village hall to all have their eev ee— village hall to all have their eev ee to— village hall to all have their eev ee to now— village hall to all have their say as to how oppose they were for say as to how oppose they were tor the— say as to how oppose they were for this industrial— say as to how oppose they were for this industrial power etetton— for this industrial power etetton .— for this industrial power station . and— for this industrial power station . and the great thing is station. and the great thing is as station. and the great thing is ee wett— station. and the great thing is ee wett. te— station. and the great thing is as well, is that— station. and the great thing is as well, is that all the tolkien ettee— as well, is that all the tolkien ettee eoee— as well, is that all the tolkien sites across country , sites across the country, tnev-ve— sites across the country, they've appreciated how they've all appreciated how tnportent— they've all appreciated how tnponent-te- they've all appreciated how important is, that this important this is, that this toeen-t— important this is, that this doesn't-ahead- important this is, that this doesn't ahead and they've all doesn't go ahead and they've all teen— doesn't go ahead and they've all teen-tner— doesn't go ahead and they've all been-their concerns- doesn't go ahead and they've all been their concerns as been voicing their concerns as wett— been voicing their concerns as wett to— been voicing their concerns as wett to wet— been voicing their concerns as well to their local— been voicing their concerns as well to their local county councillors,— well to their local county councillors, local mp and councillors, the local mp and all councillors, the local mp and ett tne— councillors, the local mp and all the district— councillors, the local mp and all the district councillors who wttt— all the district councillors who will—involved i will be ultimately involved in wnetner—orl will be ultimately involved in- whether_or not. whether this goes ahead or not. wnet— whether this goes ahead or not. we t— whether this goes ahead or not. we t tnt— whether this goes ahead or not. what i find moving— whether this goes ahead or not. what i find moving about- whether this goes ahead or not. what i find moving about the whole idea is that tolkien was no fan of technology. you know, he didn't like trains, didn't he didn't like trains, he didn't like didn't like like cars, he didn't like electricity pylons and rest. electricity pylons and the rest. and you know, and he depicted characters like , you know, like characters like, you know, like sauron, who industrialised the landscape up, you know, as part of furthering his ambitions for total power . and it's of furthering his ambitions for total power. and it's being made manifest now, you know right at

ground zero in the shire in hobbiton so to speak, which i find affecting to listen to. absolutely. and it's just so new— absolutely. and it's just so eteer tron — absolutely. and it's just so clear from his— absolutely. and it's just so clear from his writing and the ptetwre— clear from his writing and the ptetwre eertv— clear from his writing and the picture early on— clear from his writing and the picture early on in the hobbit as picture early on in the hobbit ee wett— picture early on in the hobbit ee wett. tnet— picture early on in the hobbit as well, that that— picture early on in the hobbit as well, that that this is most tettnttetv— as well, that that this is most definitely the— as well, that that this is most definitely the view he was tetttne — definitely the view he was talking about.— definitely the view he was talking about. as you said eertter— talking about. as you said eertter on— talking about. as you said earlier on, this— talking about. as you said earlier on, this is the place in neet— earlier on, this is the place in rnoet tn— earlier on, this is the place in rnoet tn tne— earlier on, this is the place in most in the countryside he eeeoetetet— most in the countryside he associated his— most in the countryside he associated his home and bag end. wow— associated his home and bag end. wow torneton— associated his home and bag end. now dormston manor. this is the new— now dormston manor. this is the tron — now dormston manor. this is the view from there _ now dormston manor. this is the view from there from from the nowee— view from there from from the nowee wnere— view from there from from the house where he— view from there from from the house where he spent so many etortowe— house where he spent so many ptonowe veere— house where he spent so many glorious years and— house where he spent so many glorious years and enjoyed the wrtttne— glorious years and enjoyed the wrtttne ent— glorious years and enjoyed the writing and all— glorious years and enjoyed the writing and all the inspiration tnet— writing and all the inspiration tnet eoee— writing and all the inspiration that goes with— writing and all the inspiration that goes with across the 287 that goes with it across the 287 acre solar industry— that goes with it across the 287 acre solar industry royal power stetton. — acre solar industry royal power station. there— acre solar industry royal power station. there are— acre solar industry royal power station. there are currently teewtttwt— station. there are currently beautiful footpaths where local toeete— beautiful footpaths where local toeete en— beautiful footpaths where local toeete 90— beautiful footpaths where local locals can go and— beautiful footpaths where local locals can go and wander and neve— locals can go and wander and neve tnte— locals can go and wander and have this amazing view that he otvtowetv— have this amazing view that he otvtowetv eo— have this amazing view that he obviously so enjoyed. i'm just going— obviously so enjoyed. i'm just potnp to— obviously so enjoyed. i'm just potnp to neve— obviously so enjoyed. i'm just going to have to— obviously so enjoyed. i'm just going to have to jump in a bit etnptv— going to have to jump in a bit simply because— going to have to jump in a bit simply because i'm running out of simply because i'm running out ot ttne. — simply because i'm running out ot ttne. t— simply because i'm running out of time. i wish— simply because i'm running out of time. i wish you— simply because i'm running out of time. i wish you all of the best with this campaign, tolkien and all of that law is very close to my heart. and i hope i hope the campaign goes for hope the campaign goes well for you. bones about that.

you. i make no bones about that. thanks all all of that. thanks for all the all of that. thanks, as always to my guests, to panellist, laura dodsworth to my panellist, laura dodsworth .thank to my panellist, laura dodsworth . thank laura simon evans . thank you, laura simon evans sits in for me next week. i'll be back in two weeks time. next up, it's the common sense crusade. hello up, it's the common sense crusade . hello there. i'm crusade. hello there. i'm tonetnen— crusade. hello there. i'm jonathan vautrey- 22 hello there. i'm jonathan vautrey here with your evenne— jonathan vautrey here with your evening weather— jonathan vautrey here with your evening weather update from the met onttee. — evening weather update from the met onttee. ae— evening weather update from the met office. as we _ evening weather update from the met office. as we look forward to tne — met office. as we look forward to the second— met office. as we look forward to the second day— met office. as we look forward to the second day of the long weekend.— to the second day of the long weekend. tt— to the second day of the long weekend. it is— to the second day of the long weekend. it is looking to stay ttne— weekend. it is looking to stay ttne tor— weekend. it is looking to stay ttne tor nenv— weekend. it is looking to stay fine for many of— weekend. it is looking to stay fine for many of us all thanks to high— fine for many of us all thanks to high pressure— fine for many of us all thanks to high pressure that is very nwen— to high pressure that is very nwn-on- to high pressure that is very nwn-on to- to high pressure that is veryi much -on to -of to high pressure that is very- much -on to -of the much clinging on to much of the uk, much clinging on to much of the wt. teeptne— much clinging on to much of the uk, keeping things— much clinging on to much of the uk, keeping things nice and eetttet— uk, keeping things nice and settled even— uk, keeping things nice and settled even this cold front tnet-e— settled even this cold front tnet-e teen— settled even this cold front that's been pushing into the nonn—weet— that's been pushing into the north—west continuing fade north—west is continuing to fade ewev— north—west is continuing to fade ewev-ot— north—west is continuing to fade ewev-ot tne— north—west is continuing to fade away-of the rain- north—west is continuing to fadei away-of the rain .we away and any of the rain that we neve— away and any of the rain that we neve eeenltt— away and any of the rain that we have seen it through saturday have seen on it through saturday is have seen on it through saturday te fizzling— have seen on it through saturday te ttzzttne-so— have seen on it through saturday is fizzling-so .be - is fizzling out. so it'll be ot— is fizzling out. so it'll be more oflcloudy- is fizzling out. so it'll be more of cloudy feature as it more of a cloudy feature as it moves across northern ireland tnto— moves across northern ireland tnto eentret— moves across northern ireland into central eastern of into central eastern areas of tnetent. — into central eastern areas of tnetent. -ntet- into central eastern areas of england. mist and fog england. a few mist and fog petenee— england. a few mist and fog patches -forming. england. a few mist and fog patches forming across patches perhaps forming across teet— patches perhaps forming across east-southeastern- east anglia, southeastern areas of east anglia, southeastern areas ot-nwt— east anglia, southeastern areas of-but elsewhere- of england. but elsewhere tnere-tt— of england. but elsewhere tnere-tt te— of england. but elsewhere there'll be a— of england. but elsewhere there'll be a good number of deer— there'll be a good number of clear intervals,— there'll be a good number of clear intervals,-a. there'll be a good number of clear intervals, a mild clear intervals, perhaps a mild ntent— clear intervals, perhaps a mild night underneath— clear intervals, perhaps a mild night underneath the cloud tteett— night underneath the cloud tteett. twt— night underneath the cloud itself. but where you do have tnoee— itself. but where you do have tnoee eteer— itself. but where you do have those clear intervals, temperatures dropping down in

some areas, particularly temperatures dropping down in sonhigher areas, particularly temperatures dropping down in sonhigher areas, areasularly for higher ground areas of seottent— for higher ground areas of seottent .— for higher ground areas of scotland . so— for higher ground areas of scotland . so where you have scotland. so where you have tnoee— scotland. so where you have tnoee twent— scotland. so where you have those bright intervals, first thingr— those bright intervals, first tntne tt— those bright intervals, first thing, it should be a lovely etet— thing, it should be a lovely eten to— thing, it should be a lovely start to sunday,— thing, it should be a lovely start to sunday, this cloud just eontne— start to sunday, this cloud just eontne ent— start to sunday, this cloud just coming and going again across eentret— coming and going again across eentret eeee— coming and going again across central areas might provide some tower— central areas might provide some tower etwtt— central areas might provide some lower stuff across— central areas might provide some lower stuff across some coastal twt— lower stuff across some coastal areas, but generally it will treet— areas, but generally it will tweet wp— areas, but generally it will break up into— areas, but generally it will break up into the afternoon. the ott— break up into the afternoon. the odd eowenr— break up into the afternoon. the odd shower possible, but you'll be wntwetv— odd shower possible, but you'll be wntwetv to— odd shower possible, but you'll be unlucky to .one- odd shower possible, but you'll be unlucky to one of those be unlucky to see one of those eteewnere. — be unlucky to see one of those elsewhere. some _ be unlucky to see one of those elsewhere. some nice sunny tntervete— elsewhere. some nice sunny intervals climbing to highs of 22 intervals climbing to highs of zz—eowtn.- intervals climbing to highs of 22_south. now,| intervals climbing to highs of. 22_south. now, as 22 celsius in the south. now, as we neet— 22 celsius in the south. now, as we neet tnto— 22 celsius in the south. now, as we head into the— 22 celsius in the south. now, as we head into the evening, 22 celsius in the south. now, as we head into the evening , the we head into the evening, the etowt— we head into the evening, the etowt eoee— we head into the evening, the cloud across england will eonttnwe— cloud across england will continue to— cloud across england will continue to fade away. some nev— continue to fade away. some hazyv wtepv— continue to fade away. some hazy, wispy stuff— continue to fade away. some hazy, wispy stuff across soottent— hazy, wispy stuff across scotland-but- hazy, wispy stuff across scotland but generally scotland still, but generally a pteeeent— scotland still, but generally a pteeeent ent— scotland still, but generally a pleasant end to— scotland still, but generally a pleasant end to the day underneath— pleasant end to the day underneath all the clear spells tnet— underneath all the clear spellsj tnet—tnowen that develop overnight, though we— that develop overnight, though tnet-ettow— that develop overnight, though that-allow those- that will allow those temperatures drop off much temperatures to drop off much rnoreen-t— temperatures to drop off much more and so many areas more widely and so many areas wtt— more widely and so many areas wttt te— more widely and so many areas wttt te petttne— more widely and so many areas will be getting down into those etnete— will be getting down into those entte-newe— will be getting down into those single marks, perhaps single figure marks, perhaps a town— single figure marks, perhaps a touch—northernl touch of frost across northern england— touch of frost across northern england, scotland and northern retent— england, scotland and northern ireland-well— england, scotland and northern ireland-well .— england, scotland and northern ireland-well . but— england, scotland and northern ireland well . but into bank ireland as well. but into bank notttev— ireland as well. but into bank holiday monday— ireland as well. but into bank holiday monday there'll holiday monday itself, there'll be e— holiday monday itself, there'll be e poet— holiday monday itself, there'll be a good number of sunny tntervete— be a good number of sunny intervals. do— be a good number of sunny intervals. do remember that uv tevete— intervals. do remember that uv levels—throughoutl levels will be high throughout the levels will be high throughout tne-wttn— levels will be high throughout tne-wttn env- levels will be high throughout the with any wispy the day, even with any wispy etowt— the day, even with any wispy etowt-we— the day, even with any wispy etowt-we to- the day, even with any wispy cloud we do though, have cloud around we do though, have a cloud around we do though, have e ott— cloud around we do though, have e on ot— cloud around we do though, have e on ot e— cloud around we do though, have a bit of a breeze— cloud around we do though, have a bit of a breeze developing tne—

a bit of a breeze developing across the south— a bit of a breeze developing across the south coast of tnptent. — across the south coast of england. come- across the south coast of england. come that england. come monday and that will continue— england. come monday and that will continue as— england. come monday and that will continue as we head into tne— will continue as we head into the forthcoming— will continue as we head into the forthcoming week. this eeetertv— the forthcoming week. this eeetertv-twet- the forthcoming week. this easterly just bringing the forthcoming week. this easteicooler just bringing the forthcoming week. this easteicooler off bringing the forthcoming week. this easteicooler off briinorth some cooler air off the north see. — some cooler air off the north sea. .generally_ some cooler air off the north sea. generally western areas sea. so generally western areas wttt— sea. so generally western areas wtttltertne— sea. so generally western areas will-faring best— sea. so generally western areas will faring best our

by ibvl hello i by- hello and i by— hello and welcome. by hello and welcome. this is cetvtn-e— hello and welcome. this is calvin's common sense crusade. with me, the reverend calvin robinson on your tv online and on your wireless . now, today, we on your wireless. now, today, we will be discussing the dismal the dismissal rather, of a christian teacher for apparently misgendering a pupil as well as the demonstration by a group of british muslims outside the screening of a new film they dub islamophobic. screening of a new film they dub islamophobic . and in the duel, islamophobic. and in the duel, my panellists will be discussing a new study that shows residents in the united kingdom are among the least religious in the