by | bvl way. good morning and welcome to the camilla tominey me, camilla tominey show. with me, camilla tominey show. with me, camilla tominey. very camilla tominey. i'm very excited today's show excited about today's show because we've got the comedy legend is john cleese legend that is john cleese coming into the studio. he's soon my gb news colleague. soon to be my gb news colleague. if anyone asked me whether if anyone had asked me whether i ever imagined i'd be working with john cleese at some point ever imagined i'd be working wi'the)hn cleese at some point ever imagined i'd be working wi'the future,ase at some point ever imagined i'd be working wi'the future, i'd at some point ever imagined i'd be working wi'the future, i'd have me point ever imagined i'd be working wi'the future, i'd have saidoint in the future, i'd have said they completely bonkers. they were completely bonkers. but great but he's doing a great documentary us. i'm documentary series for us. i'm going asking him about going to be asking him all about the reboot fawlty towers, the reboot of fawlty towers, what he makes of cancel culture,

why he was the high court at why he was at the high court at prince harry's phone hacking heanng prince harry's phone hacking hearing the other day, just hearing the other day, and just generally old generally having a good old conflab with about what's conflab with him about what's coming his show. so do coming up on his show. so do please for that. i'm please stay tuned for that. i'm also to speaking to also going to be speaking to tory david davis , a tory grandee david davis, a perfect this week perfect man for this week because course, johnson because of course, boris johnson is in the headlines. and is back in the headlines. and david davis was one of the first tories to call for him to resign as prime minister. lord john hutton me. a very rare hutton joins me. a very rare interview for him with gb news. he doesn't often very much he doesn't often do very much media. have media. we're delighted to have him to talk about the future of the labour party. he was very the labour party. he was a very close tony blair's. he close ally of tony blair's. he was and business was former defence and business secretary, knows his secretary, so he knows his laboun secretary, so he knows his labour, onions ross clark, labour, onions and ross clark, who of you will be who a lot of you will be familiar with because of his writings in the telegraph and the of sense. the mail speaks a lot of sense. he's got a new book out called nortje zero that gives you a clue as to what the thrust of the is. i think going the book is. i think he's going to actually net zero to argue that actually net zero is making most people poorer and is making most people poorer and is of time and is a waste of time and empowering china in the process. and we've got cracking and we've got a cracking generation to come. should

generation gap to come. should teachers misgender pupils teachers who misgender pupils be sacked? tim smith and rebecca reid going debate that reid are going to debate that one first of let's one out. first of all, let's have a at the front pages have a look at the front pages so can imagine is one so you can imagine there is one story dominates which will story that dominates which will come a minute. but come on to in just a minute. but the sunday telegraph splash goes with sunak asks to cap with sunak asks stores to cap bafic with sunak asks stores to cap basic food prices. the sunday times to ban new times starmer to ban new drilling in the north sea. the observer ministers in battle to halt the release of covid secrets. sir a story i know is gaining quite a lot of traction on the gb news website. this morning. the mail on sunday. what's the front page headline there? no we haven't got that yet. haven't got the mail on sunday. we'll move on from that. sorry to the mail on sunday, the sunday express. we can cut migration and thrive, says the sunday express and the sun on sunday, holly , phil lied to me. sunday, holly, phil lied to me. this is a reflection , of course, this is a reflection, of course, of holly willoughby's instagram feed yesterday in which she revealed that she had asked phillip schofield whether he had had an affair with a younger

researcher, and he had said no. she claims the mirror she claims the sunday mirror also running with the phillip schofield story. now itv set to axe this morning and also a story about kate and the killer. that's an interesting story about a charity that's about a charity boss that's involved with the princess of wales who stabbed somebody when he teenagen wales who stabbed somebody when he teenager. let's he was a teenager. now, let's bnng he was a teenager. now, let's bring downer, bring in alexander downer, former australian foreign secretary high commissioner secretary and high commissioner to also chair of the to the uk, also the chair of the policy think tank. policy exchange. think tank. he's great thinker. policy exchange. think tank. he's great thinker . alexander he's a great thinker. alexander now, i'm sorry to debase your intellect here, but phillip schofield is dominating the front pages of the headlines and this is a newspaper review , so this is a newspaper review, so i'm going to ask you for your view on all this. i know as an australian, maybe this isn't completely across your radar, but obviously the front but it's obviously on the front page a lot of newspapers. page of a lot of newspapers. what's your general impression of story ? so for the people of this story? so for the people who— of this story? so for the people who watched— soy?” so for the people who watched particular who watched that particular p.og..mme,_ who watched that particular programme, will be of great programme, it will be of great interest— programme, it will be of great interest and— programme, it will be of great interest and for— programme, it will be of great interest and for everyone else it wm— interest and for everyone else it will be— interest and for everyone else it will be of— interest and for everyone else it will be of no— interest and for everyone else it will be of no interest at an. — it will be of no interest at an. and— it will be of no interest at an. and i— it will be of no interest at all. and i confess- it will be of no interest at all. ' 2 f all. and i confess not to watching that programme. i don't tend not to watch a lot of

weekly morning tv . tend not to watch a lot of weekly morning tv. i listen to the radio more and so it means absolutely nothing to me . and absolutely nothing to me. and his relationship with somebody and his relationship with holly and his relationship with holly and so on. i think for the majority of people, it's of no interest at all. but for a minority , it's of i accept it's minority, it's of i accept it's of intense interest, but it gets more media coverage than it deserves, given that people are much more worried about other things like food prices. okay. well let's move on to more serious stories , because as you serious stories, because as you say, it's a funny thing, really. this obsession with daytime tv when— this obsession with daytime tv when a— this obsession with daytime tv when anf— this obsession with daytime tv when a.of people- this obsession with daytime tv when a of people are at work when a lot of people are at work when— when a lot of people are at work when h-s— when a lot of people are at work when h-s h— when a lot of people are at work when it's on..it's_ when a lot of people are at work when it's on. it's strange. when it's on. so it's strange. let-s— when it's on. so it's strange. let-s haw— when it's on. so it's strange. let's talk about— when it's on. so it's strange. let's talk about the attack of the— let's talk about the attack of the hhh — let's talk about the attack of the blob, because much has been saw— the blob, because much has been said this— the blob, because much has been said this week— the blob, because much has been said this week-the- the blob, because much has been said this week the blob or said this week about the blob or the web— said this week about the blob or the hhoh h— said this week about the blob or the blob is actually running the country.— the blob is actually running the cowhww we— the blob is actually running the country- we cah— the blob is actually running the country. we can define what the the blob is actually running the coun'is, we can define what the the blob is actually running the coun'is, but can define what the the blob is actually running the coun'is, but ian define what the the blob is actually running the coun'is, but i pointzine what the the blob is actually running the coun'is, but i point to; what the the blob is actually running the coun'is, but i point to three the blob is, but i point to three wherew— blob is, but i point to three different-in- blob is, but i point to three different in today's different stories in today's paper.— different stories in today's hhphh-hhe- different stories in today's papa-the on paper. we've got the mail on sundav- — paper. we've got the mail on sundav- -h-s- paper. we've got the mail on swhhaw.-h-s a- paper. we've got the mail on sunday. it's a victory sunday. it says it's a victory for— sunday. it says it's a victory for-huh— sunday. it says it's a victory for-blob almost- sunday. it says it's a victory for blob almost half of for the blob almost half of awh— for the blob almost half of civil servants— for the blob almost half of civil servants still work at home.— civil servants still work at home. there's— civil servants still work at home. there's a- civil servants still work at home. there's a spread in the hehgwhh— home. there's a spread in the telegraph useless telegraph saying useless

watchdog— telegraph saying useless watchdog staff on watchdog focuses staff on diversity— watchdog focuses staff on diversity and _ watchdog focuses staff on diversity and another story about— diversity and another story about t— diversity and another story about a civil— diversity and another story about a civil servant who dared to chattehge— about a civil servant who dared to challenge activists. and one she— to challenge activists. and one she got— to challenge activists. and one she got too— to challenge activists. and one she got 100 grand— to challenge activists. and one she got 100 grand payout because she got 100 grand payout because the tatt— she got 100 grand payout because the sttt that— she got 100 grand payout because she said that the— she got 100 grand payout because she said that the civil service too— she said that the civil service was too intent— she said that the civil service was too intent on— she said that the civil service was too intent on looking at what— was too intent on looking at critical race— was too intent on looking at critical race theory and people thotoghthg— critical race theory and people apotoghthg tw— critical race theory and people apologising for being white and all apologising for being white and at the— apologising for being white and at the teet— apologising for being white and all the rest of— apologising for being white and all the rest of it.— apologising for being white and all the rest of it. we've got various different— all the rest of it. we've got various different stories of etwt— various different stories of etwt eewtee— various different stories of civil service inadequacy. why haven-t— civil service inadequacy. why heweh-t the— civil service inadequacy. why haven't the tories, do you thhh— haven't the tories, do you thhh get— haven't the tories, do you think, got hold- haven't the tories, do you think, got hold of this issue the— think, got hold of this issue over the last— think, got hold of this issue over the last 13— think, got hold of this issue over the last 13 years? well it ewheeeh— over the last 13 years? well it ewheeeh he— over the last 13 years? well it surprises me that— over the last 13 years? well it surprises me that the government ten-t— surprises me that the government teh-t veh— surprises me that the government teh-t wew eteet— surprises me that the government isn't very clear in— surprises me that the government isn't very clear in terms of hehewew— isn't very clear in terms of behaviour expected from the ctwt— behaviour expected from the civil service.— behaviour expected from the civil service. _ behaviour expected from the civil service. first- behaviour expected from the civil service. first of all, they're meant to be completely apolitical, implement renting government policy and yet within the civil service, within a number of departments . and you number of departments. and you have the example today of the department of work and pensions where critical race theory is being promoted. and that critical race theory is a sort of far left american interpretation of race relations, which, by the way, i think exacerbates not harmonises

race relations , but this is race relations, but this is being promoted in many parts of the civil service , which is the civil service, which is hugely political. so i'm surprised the government in particular, not just ministers and the prime minister, but the cabinet secretary doesn't really crack down on this . the second crack down on this. the second thing is the working from home practise in the civil service . i practise in the civil service. i mean, you say a lot of people won't be watching itv morning programmes. well, won't be watching itv morning programmes . well, maybe they programmes. well, maybe they will programmes. well, maybe they wttt he— programmes. well, maybe they wttt he h— programmes. well, maybe they will be in the _ programmes. well, maybe they will be in the civil— 3 well, maybe they will be in the civil service, hut— will be in the civil service, but actually— will be in the civil service, but actually a— will be in the civil service, but actually a lot of them went— but actually a lot of them went at— but actually a lot of them aren't at work. - but actually a lot of them aren't at work. "oat ”o; but actually a lot of them- aren't at work. they're at home. i mean, you could say they're still working from home. you know, lots of people will- s“ g you know, lots of people will object to the— know, lots of people will object to the teet— know, lots of people will object to this idea that— know, lots of people will object to this idea that anybody that's wetthe— to this idea that anybody that's wetthe hem — to this idea that anybody that's working from home shirking working from home is shirking trem— working from home is shirking teem—ht— working from home is shirking hem—ht wow-te- working from home is shirking from if you're running from home. but if you're running eeeehttet— from home. but if you're running essential services— from home. but if you're running essential services that are tethe— essential services that are failing-public,- essential services that are failing public, then you failing the public, then you hteht—wewl failing the public, then you- might_your desk. might want to be at your desk. wett— might want to be at your desk. wet, ee— might want to be at your desk. wet, eelwew-te— might want to be at your desk. well, so you're licencing well, so if you're the licencing ewthehtw— well, so if you're the licencing ewthehtw et— well, so if you're the licencing authority or the _ well, so if you're the licencing authority or the cma , for authority or the cma, for exempte— authority or the cma, for example, the _ authority or the cma, for example, the competition and markete— example, the competition and markets authority , you would markets authority, you would expect— markets authority, you would expect heehte— markets authority, you would expect people to be working together,— expect people to be working together, interact , acting with together, interact, acting with each— together, interact, acting with

each ether— together, interact, acting with each other and— together, interact, acting with each other and in the case of heehehe— each other and in the case of heehehe et— each other and in the case of licencing or the— each other and in the case of licencing or the passport whee,— licencing or the passport office, they— licencing or the passport office, they have to issue teewmehte— office, they have to issue documents points so there wewtth-t— documents points so there wewtth-t he— documents points so there wouldn't be scope for working trem— wouldn't be scope for working hem heme— wouldn't be scope for working from home there. �*" ”o; wouldn't be scope for working from home there. �*" ”to; go g from home there. if you're going to maintain productivity . but to maintain productivity. but ultimately this is the key . ultimately this is the key. arnie are you going to be able to maintain productivity or is productivity going to decline down? and the early signs of this practise of working from home is are that it hits productivity? yes. so the public aren't getting the same value for money from the civil service as they might otherwise have done. as they might otherwise have done . so again, the government done. so again, the government needs to ensure that where it's relevant, people are actually working from an office and delivering services. do you recognise this— delivering services. do you recognise this claim - g do you recognise this claim that the wet— recognise this claim that the hteh te— recognise this claim that the blob is actually— recognise this claim that the blob is actually in charge ? blob is actually in charge? yest— blob is actually in charge? vet. ._ blob is actually in charge? vet. . ththt— blob is actually in charge? yes, i think it's— blob is actually in charge? yes, i think it's to- blob is actually in charge? yes, i think it's to be- blob is actually in charge? yes, i think it's to be fair, it's an exaggeration , it's it's an exaggeration, it's hyperbole, but i know what that means . a lot of ministers defer means. a lot of ministers defer to their officials . you don't

to their officials. you don't have to be rude to the officials. i've been a minister myself . you need to be polite to myself. you need to be polite to them. so i'm not saying they should be poor things, bullied by a minister, but they do work for the minister for yes, this country is a democracy arnie and the important thing is they understand who's in charge . but understand who's in charge. but a lot of ministers are unable to exert their authority and simply become letter signers and submission signers for the civil service . and i think that has service. and i think that has been a 30 years in power that has become a problem. i think the prime minister needs at a cabinet meeting to make it clear to ministers that he expects them to govern and to lead, not advisers advise ministers decide what to do. i mean, you have this problem with immigration for example. i mean, huge numbers of migrants coming into the country, which puts services under enormous strain . um, well,

under enormous strain. um, well, let's come on to that in just a minute, because i know we're going to go on to migration. very quick word, oliver. oliver hewtehe— very quick word, oliver. oliver dowdens potential role in this wtteh— dowdens potential role in this wtteh hwht— dowdens potential role in this witch hunt against boris johnson. — witch hunt against boris johnson. should an johnson. should there be an investigation— johnson. should there be an investigation as— johnson. should there be an investigation as whether investigation as to whether hhtetete— investigation as to whether. ministers—involved investigation as to whether- ministers_involved in ministers have been involved in mathe— ministers have been involved in hethe these— ministers have been involved in making these referrals to the hetteee— making these referrals to the hetteeeithe— making these referrals to the police?.the back- making these referrals to the police? the back of his covid police? on the back of his covid tteheee — police? on the back of his covid diaries? -government. diaries? no, the government should not be having investigations whole time investigations the whole time into itself. i think this is are they having many they having too many investigations? shouldn't . investigations? they shouldn't. i mean, prime minister i mean, the prime minister should just make decision in should just make a decision in support of the government that we are just going to march on and deliver for the public, not having investigated into allegations about what ministers may or only when the public arguably has moved on right from partygate. now, sorry, you did heter— partygate. now, sorry, you did tetet te— partygate. now, sorry, you did refer to migration.— g now, sorry, you did refer to migration. it's the tent— refer to migration. it's the tweet-et— refer to migration. it's the front-of the- refer to migration. it's the front of the sunday front page of the sunday express.— front page of the sunday express. basically the stat express. it's basically the stat of express. it's basically the stat et the— express. it's basically the stat et the week,— express. it's basically the stat of the week, isn't— express. it's basically the stat of the week, isn't it, that eoeooo — of the week, isn't it, that 606,000 figure in your mind? atexehtw— 606,000 figure in your mind? alexandra is— 606,000 figure in your mind? alexandra is that— 606,000 figure in your mind? alexandra is that too high? well it alexandra is that too high? well tt tees,— alexandra is that too high? well tt tees, hw— alexandra is that too high? well tt tees, by the— alexandra is that too high? well it does, by the way, include etwtehte. — it does, by the way, include students. should- it does, by the way, include students. : e 7” tits; e students. should it? maybe it would be better to exclude the

student numbers from the figure or at least explain how the figures are calculated . and figures are calculated. and secondly, there's the ukraine and hong kong factor as well . and hong kong factor as well. they have nearly 200,000, i think of that 600. but in general, when— think of that 600. but in general, when you- i700 but in general, when you think about tethe— general, when you think about hehe e— general, when you think about being a former— general, when you think about being a former minister and the government— being a former minister and the government has— being a former minister and the government has made a pledge to the hwhtte— government has made a pledge to the hwhtte h— government has made a pledge to the public in the— government has made a pledge to the public in the 2019 manifesto to the public in the 2019 manifesto te keep_ the public in the 2019 manifesto to keep these— the public in the 2019 manifesto to keep those numbers below 200.000.— to keep those numbers below 200,000, should— to keep those numbers below 200,000, should they just have a women— 200,000, should they just have a tooeooe — 200,000, should they just have a 100,000.7 well— 200,000, should they just have a 100,000.7 well ,_ 200,000, should they just have a 100,000? well , to— 200,000, should they just have a 100,000? well , to be- 200,000, should they just have a 100,000? �*ft�*oll ” " 100,000? well, to be fair, in the manifesto, it's below 200,000 because by that point it had reached 246. it was david ceteheh— had reached 246. it was david cameron that— had reached 246. it was david cameron that pledged- “at: 1: $246 it was david cameron that pledged below homo.— cameron that pledged below tooeoo. hut— cameron that pledged below 100,000. but i— cameron that pledged below 100,000. but i mean, these are perhaps— 100,000. but i mean, these are perhaps semantics— 100,000. but i mean, these are perhaps semantics in general. do you perhaps semantics in general. do we ththt— perhaps semantics in general. do we thht tt-e— perhaps semantics in general. do you think it's politically expettent— you think it's politically expedient, particularly for the whee— expedient, particularly for the thee to— expedient, particularly for the teheetetwet— expedient, particularly for the tories to just place a cap on hwhhetee — tories to just place a cap on numbers? yes— tories to just place a cap on numbers? yes ,_ tories to just place a cap on numbers? yes , i- tories to just place a cap on numbers? t/os "

teet— misleading because you need to hot et— misleading because you need to hot at the— misleading because you need to look at the gdp— misleading because you need to look at the gdp per capita ttowee— look at the gdp per capita ttowee het— look at the gdp per capita figures, not at— look at the gdp per capita figures, not at the overall gdp ttowee— figures, not at the overall gdp ttowee ,— figures, not at the overall gdp ttowee , hut,— figures, not at the overall gdp figures , but, you— figures, not at the overall gdp figures , but, you know, business figures, but, you know, business tepwtmente— figures, but, you know, business departments, the— figures, but, you know, business departments, the treasury are etewtw— departments, the treasury are etewtw h— departments, the treasury are clearly in favour— departments, the treasury are clearly in favour of higher htotetteh— clearly in favour of higher htotwtteh .— clearly in favour of higher migration . but- clearly in favour of higher migration . but how do you migration. but how do you eewtee— migration. but how do you service such— migration. but how do you service such huge numbers of heehtee— service such huge numbers of heehtee the— service such huge numbers of people? the nhs_ service such huge numbers of people? the nhs is that they etwwe— people? the nhs is that they wtwwe ew— people? the nhs is that they always say under pressure, yes , always say under pressure, yes, eeheete— always say under pressure, yes, eeheete ent— always say under pressure, yes, schools and other— always say under pressure, yes, schools and other service heweee— schools and other service houses, the _ schools and other service houses, the roads are getting eteooet— houses, the roads are getting eteooet . — houses, the roads are getting eteooet . ._ houses, the roads are getting clogged . i mean,- houses, the roads are getting clogged . " e oat clogged. i mean, politically they seem to have offset this and are saying in their own mind, as you say, that they should go for growth. this is jeremy hwht-e— should go for growth. this is jeremy hunt's key— jeremy hunt's key plank of his economic policy— jeremy hunt's key plank of his economic policy is as much htotetteh— economic policy is as much htotwtteh ee— economic policy is as much migration as we— economic policy is as much migration as we can fit in. /ot. migration as we can fit in. you tehtewet— migration as we can fit in. you achieved growth— migration as we can fit in. you achieved growth through improving productivity, not through bringing in cheap laboun through bringing in cheap labour. yeah i'm talking about labour. yeah i'm talking about labour just to move to our final story, alexander, as time always races on this show, it's the labour announcement of the day . labour announcement of the day. starmer ban new drilling in starmer to ban new drilling in the-see— starmer to ban new drilling in the-sea that's- starmer to ban new drilling in the-sea that's on- starmer to ban new drilling in the sea that's on the the north sea that's on the tent— the north sea that's on the tent et— the north sea that's on the front of the— the north sea that's on the front of the sunday times. your teeetteh— front of the sunday times. your teeetteh te— front of the sunday times. your reaction to that— front of the sunday times. your reaction to that idea? t/os reaction to that idea? yes, this is reaction to that idea? yes, this he ettttoht— reaction to that idea? yes, this is straight out of the australian labour party's

playbook. they will advised playbook. they will have advised this playbook. they will have advised thte-hwe— playbook. they will have advised this-have green _ this so you have green credentials— this so you have green credentials .- this so you have green credentials . of course, the credentials. of course, the consequence of- credentials. of course, the consequence of it is that gas ent— consequence of it is that gas the ot— consequence of it is that gas the ett wttt— consequence of it is that gas and oil will be— consequence of it is that gas and oil will be imported rather then— and oil will be imported rather then ceme— and oil will be imported rather than come from _ and oil will be imported rather than come from the north sea , than come from the north sea, whteh— than come from the north sea, whteh wttt— than come from the north sea, which will have— than come from the north sea, which will have balance of payments. — which will have balance of payments. consequence taxes. and by thhehtho— payments. consequence taxes. and by thhettho ott— payments. consequence taxes. and by importing oil and gas, that's not who— by importing oil and gas, that's not oeho te— by importing oil and gas, that's not going to make— by importing oil and gas, that's not going to make the slightest ttttetehee— not going to make the slightest difference to _ not going to make the slightest difference to global co2 emissions,— difference to global co2 emissions, which is meant to be the — emissions, which is meant to be the se— emissions, which is meant to be the issue. so it's— emissions, which is meant to be the issue. so it's a— emissions, which is meant to be the issue. so it's a classic et— the issue. so it's a classic case of virtue— the issue. so it's a classic case of virtue signalling, etohwtho— case of virtue signalling, signalling trumping practical poww— signalling trumping practical pettew. — signalling trumping practical pettew . o— signalling trumping practical pettew . o oo— signalling trumping practical policy . d do you- signalling trumping practical policy . j jo policy. d do you think this whole idea about phasing out petrol and diesel cars by 2030, the net zero pledge, do you think that's political lunacy or do you think it does gain votes on the right? i think it is entirely poll driven . yeah, but entirely poll driven. yeah, but it'll never happen— entirely poll driven. yeah, but it'll never happen ._ entirely poll driven. yeah, but it'll never happen . i- ”out t: ” yeah, but it'll never happen . i mean, the it'll never happen. i mean, the european— it'll never happen. i mean, the european union— it'll never happen. i mean, the european union has had to abandon— european union has had to abandon its— european union has had to abandon its target of electric wehtetee— abandon its target of electric wehtetee hw— abandon its target of electric vehicles by 2030— abandon its target of electric vehicles by 2030 or this was a bit vehicles by 2030 or this was a htt ta...— vehicles by 2030 or this was a htt teteh ._ vehicles by 2030 or this was a bit later, i think— vehicles by 2030 or this was a bit later, i think it— vehicles by 2030 or this was a bit later, i think it was 20, as. — bit later, i think it was 20, 35. but— bit later, i think it was 20, 35. but they've— bit later, i think it was 20, 35. but they've abandoned that. the— 35. but they've abandoned that. the th— 35. but they've abandoned that. the wt wttt— 35. but they've abandoned that. the uk will have— 35. but they've abandoned that. the uk will have to abandon its

ttowee— the uk will have to abandon its ttowee .— the uk will have to abandon its figures . there's— the uk will have to abandon its figures. there's no— the uk will have to abandon its figures. there's no there's no way— figures. there's no there's no way he— figures. there's no there's no way he who— figures. there's no there's no way he oeho te— figures. there's no there's no way it's going to be achieved by hose.— way it's going to be achieved by 2030. alexander— way it's going to be achieved by 2030. alexander downer, thank you— 2030. alexander downer, thank you very— 2030. alexander downer, thank you very much— 2030. alexander downer, thank you very much for— 2030. alexander downer, thank you very much for joining me the— you very much for joining me this morning. _ you very much for joining me this morning. lovely to see you. thank you very much. we're going to be speaking to ross clark about all that later. by the way, because he's written this book, not zero. and he'll be, no doubt have very strong opinion book, not zero. and he'll be, no doubt what, very strong opinion book, not zero. and he'll be, no doubt what, sirtry strong opinion book, not zero. and he'll be, no doubt what, sir keir:rong opinion book, not zero. and he'll be, no doubt what, sir keir starmernion book, not zero. and he'll be, no doubt what, sir keir starmer has about what, sir keir starmer has announced now olivia announced today. now olivia utley slough. she's with utley is in slough. she's with our panel. olivia sunny our people's panel. olivia sunny slough. what questions of the people panellists got our people panellists got for our guests today ? hello. yes i am in guests today? hello. yes i am in a lovely sunny slough today. all sorts of questions from our tehteette— all sorts of questions from our fantastic panel. _ all sorts of questions from our fantastic panel. op all sorts of questions from our fantastic panel. «og og fantastic panel. very, very interesting on immigration this week. for interesting on immigration this week . for now, i interesting on immigration this week. for now, i am interesting on immigration this week . for now, i am here with week. for now, i am here with raj,— week. for now, i am here with tat, whe— week. for now, i am here with tat, who he— week. for now, i am here with tat, who he very— for now, i am here with raj, who is very kindly let us te— raj, who is very kindly let us to he— raj, who is very kindly let us come to his wonderful atlantis tewhoe— come to his wonderful atlantis tewhoe h— come to his wonderful atlantis lounge in slough— come to his wonderful atlantis lounge in slough . and how's lounge in slough. and how's hweheee— lounge in slough. and how's business going— lounge in slough. and how's business going for you , olivia? business going for you, olivia? morning— business going for you, olivia? morning business— business going for you, olivia? morning business has- business going for you, olivia? morning business has been- business going for you, olivia? morning business has been great. we have been open for the last two years and it's gone from strength to strength. so much so that in the midst of that we are in the midst of opening a second restaurant called mizumi be called mizumi will be a fantastic pan—asian restaurant

to start with. oh, fantastic . to start with. oh, fantastic. that-e— to start with. oh, fantastic. that-e teettw— oh, fantastic. that's really exciting news. do you— that's really exciting news. do you teet— that's really exciting news. do you feel-there _ that's really exciting news. do you feel-there are- that's really exciting news. do you feel there are any you feel that there are any ehettehoee— you feel that there are any challenges current challenges in the current ethhetee — challenges in the current climate? ' loge challenges in the current- climate? absolutelylmean, climate? absolutely. i mean, one of challenges we of the biggest challenges we have industry general have in the industry in general is recruitment, finding the right people and the right calibre of people and the workforce in general has been a bit a nightmare, you know, bit of a nightmare, you know, and giving them the opportunity to into the roses been to come into the roses has been also of one of the also a big of one of the challenges we had. that's challenges we have had. that's really raj, because really interesting, raj, because we've similar things we've heard very similar things from other business leaders and thank much for having us thank you so much for having us here. we're really grateful. and now—introduce- here. we're really grateful. and now—introduce you| now i'm going to introduce you to now i'm going to introduce you te-httttteht— now i'm going to introduce you to brilliant people's panel. to our brilliant people's panel. as to our brilliant people's panel. aewe-we-— to our brilliant people's panel. ae-we-we-e- to our brilliant people's panel. as -we've-a range. to our brilliant people's panel. as we've a range of as usual, we've got a range of peehte— as usual, we've got a range of peepte-ett— as usual, we've got a range of people all different people from all different walks of people from all different walks et—wew— people from all different walks of_very excited - people from all different walks of_very excited toi of life who are very excited to be of life who are very excited to he-tett— of life who are very excited to he-tettlwe- of life who are very excited to be -talk.us today. of life who are very excited to be -talk.us today .i be here to talk to us today. the— be here to talk to us today. the he— be here to talk to us today. this is sharon— be here to talk to us today. this is sharon ._ be here to talk to us today. this is sharon . sharon is a this is sharon. sharon is a tutor— this is sharon. sharon is a tutor h— this is sharon. sharon is a tutor th e— this is sharon. sharon is a tutor in a school- this is sharon. sharon is a tutor in a school . we've got tutor in a school. we've got het— tutor in a school. we've got wet hete— tutor in a school. we've got jack here who's— tutor in a school. we've got jack here who's an actor, but hee— jack here who's an actor, but hes a— jack here who's an actor, but hes a two— jack here who's an actor, but he's a busy man— jack here who's an actor, but he's a busy man because he's the— he's a busy man because he's the thwho— he's a busy man because he's also driving ambulances for the nhs— also driving ambulances for the whs .— also driving ambulances for the whs . ahe— also driving ambulances for the nhs . and adeel,_ also driving ambulances for the nhs . and adeel, who is nhs. and adeel, who is a conservative— nhs. and adeel, who is a conservative councillor . now, conservative councillor. now, ateeh— conservative councillor. now, ateet, ._ conservative councillor. now, adeel, i think— conservative councillor. now, adeel, i think i'm going to start— adeel, i think i'm going to etwt wtth— adeel, i think i'm going to start with you— adeel, i think i'm going to start with you ._ adeel, i think i'm going to start with you . obviously, one start with you. obviously, one of start with you. obviously, one et the— start with you. obviously, one et the hottest— start with you. obviously, one of the biggest questions, one of the hottest— of the biggest questions, one of the biggest talking points this week— the biggest talking points this week hee— the biggest talking points this week has been— the biggest talking points this week has been immigration, week has been about immigration,

pwttewtwtw— week has been about immigration, particularly immigration . particularly legal immigration. thte— particularly legal immigration. thte-ttowee- particularly legal immigration. this figures came out this week the figures came out ent— this week the figures came out. and—immigration and shows that legal immigration has and shows that legal immigration hes-e— and shows that legal immigration hes-e teeett— and shows that legal immigration has-a record high,- and shows that legal immigration has a record high, which has reached a record high, which ten-t— has reached a record high, which teh-t teettw— has reached a record high, which isn't really what— has reached a record high, which isn't really what we're expeetho — isn't really what we're expecting brexit. what isn't really what we're- expecting -brexit. what do expecting after brexit. what do you ththt— expecting after brexit. what do you thht et— expecting after brexit. what do you think of the— expecting after brexit. what do you think of the facts that immigration— you think of the facts that immigration is— you think of the facts that immigration is higher than it's heeh e — immigration is higher than it's ever been ? so— immigration is higher than it's ever been ? ever been? so personally, i believe we need sustainable migration . we need workers , we migration. we need workers, we need students . students bring need students. students bring their families . we need to take their families. we need to take in people from war torn countries. so it's a balancing act is needed and it's a difficult, difficult situation that we're currently in. but some kind of control is definitely needed. that's really interesting. so do you think that— interesting. so do you think that het— interesting. so do you think that net migration- no”ose g so do you think that net migration should noose g so do you think that net migration should come town— that net migration should come down et— that net migration should come town or to— that net migration should come town or to you— that net migration should come down or do you think that as teno— down or do you think that as who we— down or do you think that as who we w-wee— down or do you think that as long as we've got— down or do you think that as long as we've got the right pewte— long as we've got the right peepte, tt-e— long as we've got the right people, it's okay that it's wwtte— people, it's okay that it's wwtte high? — people, it's okay that it's quite high? .it- people, it's okay that it's quite high? e : people, it's okay that it's- quite high? .it needs to be quite high? so it needs to be sustainable. we need the infrastructure in place. we need the place . as as the houses in place. as long as it's sustainable. that's for that's for the civil servants to work out whether we can have taken more people or less people . okay, fantastic. thank you. that-e— . okay, fantastic. thank you. that-elteettw— okay, fantastic. thank you. that's really interesting that's a really interesting petepeetwe.— that's a really interesting perspective. sharon , one of

perspective. and sharon, one of the ether— perspective. and sharon, one of the other things— perspective. and sharon, one of the other things that we've been tettho— the other things that we've been twttho thew,— the other things that we've been talking about, week is talking about, this week is ttteoet— talking about, this week is illegal migration those small talking about, this week is illegathatjration those small talking about, this week is illegathat are on those small talking about, this week is illegathat are coming se small talking about, this week is illegathat are coming overnall talking about, this week is illegathat are coming over here boats that are coming over here in boats that are coming over here he teeett— boats that are coming over here he record-ent- boats that are coming over here in record and obviously in record numbers and obviously wtth— in record numbers and obviously wtth-oetoeewe— in record numbers and obviously with gorgeous weather, we with this gorgeous weather, we expect— with this gorgeous weather, we expect-there — with this gorgeous weather, we expect -there are - with this gorgeous weather, we expect there are only going expect that there are only going to expect that there are only going telmwe— expect that there are only going to.more.-think- expect that there are only going to more. think you've to be more. and i think you've got— to be more. and i think you've got qwtte— to be more. and i think you've got wwtte eh— to be more. and i think you've got quite an interesting petepeetwe— got quite an interesting perspective on this because we weteewt-tet. - perspective on this because wei were-earlier. -i've were chatting earlier. yes, i've worked— were chatting earlier. yes, i've worked tw— were chatting earlier. yes, i've worked tot t— were chatting earlier. yes, i've worked for a charity that provided safe houses for those who've been trafficked , but it's who've been trafficked, but it's actually i was quite surprised. the second most profitable industry, illegal industry , it's industry, illegal industry, it's even more profitable than drugs. so people are being treated as products . and i want to know products. and i want to know about why aren't we following the money? why aren't we bringing down mr big? so do you feel that not enough? is being done to sort of break- ”ool og�* is being done to sort of break those ehehe— done to sort of break those ehehe et— done to sort of break those chains of people smugglers that are chains of people smugglers that bringing— chains of people smugglers that are bringing over— chains of people smugglers that are bringing over some desperate heehte— are bringing over some desperate peepte eh— are bringing over some desperate peepte eh shatt— are bringing over some desperate people on small boats ? /o people on small boats? you know, we're a country that's always had immigrants. so i've absolutely no problem with that. i'm an immigrant myself. uh, but it's when you've got people who will going the illegal route will be going the illegal route is bad. i mean , at the end of

is bad. i mean, at the end of the day, why do they come in illegally? it's very hard to come in legally, i can tell you . absolutely. thank you. absolutely. «thank you. and . absolutely. thank you. and jack— . absolutely. thank you. and wet cowo— . absolutely. thank you. and wet covto te— absolutely. thank you. and jack covid is going to be interviewing— jack covid is going to be interviewing david davis later, tethe— interviewing david davis later, former leader— interviewing david davis later, former leader of— interviewing david davis later, former leader of the former nearly— former leader of the former nearly leader— former leader of the former nearly leader of— former leader of the former nearly leader of the conservative party, i should say what— conservative party, i should say what he— conservative party, i should say . what is there— conservative party, i should say . what is there anything epeettte— . what is there anything specific that— . what is there anything specific that you would like to wet— specific that you would like to wet hhhe — specific that you would like to ask him? well,— specific that you would like to ask him? well, first- specific that you would like to ask him? �*tht�*oll �*" t: ask him? well, first of all, i'd like to say i'm not a tory, but i'm a big fan of david davis. i think he's a great guy. and i think he's a great guy. and i think i'd like to ask him, is he proud of the for the things that the conservatives haven't done over the last 13 years and the short termism and the lack of direction that they seem to have? seem to be linked have? i don't seem to be linked to at all. well, to the public at all. well, thank you very— o well, thank you very much, jack. not a fan thank you very much, jack. not a the ot— thank you very much, jack. not a ten et the— thank you very much, jack. not a fan of the conservative party at the mement— fan of the conservative party at the moment. it'll— fan of the conservative party at the moment. it'll be interesting to the moment. it'll be interesting te-tt— the moment. it'll be interesting tom the— the moment. it'll be interesting tom the ttoht— the moment. it'll be interesting to if the right honourable to see if the right honourable newt— to see if the right honourable newt dewe— to see if the right honourable david davis can— to see if the right honourable david davis can answer that wweetteh— david davis can answer that wweettehlhew— david davis can answer that question-now,-to. david davis can answer that question now, to you david davis can answer that- question.now,-to you in question for now, back to you in the etude— question for now, back to you in the studio. camilla— question for now, back to you in the studio. camilla thank you very— the studio. camilla thank you very much— the studio. camilla thank you very much indeed for that. ottwt. — very much indeed for that. ottwt. ._ very much indeed for that. olivia. i will— very much indeed for that. olivia. i will put— very much indeed for that. olivia. i will put that- very much indeed for that. olivia. i will put that to- very much indeed for that. olivia. i will put that to david davis, who hopefully joins me now. for now. he's the tory mp for haltemprice howden, former haltemprice and howden, former brexit david good

brexit secretary. david good morning. lots more stories about tory infighting in today's papers . we've now got claims papers. we've now got claims that oliver dowden may have been involved in referring boris johnson to the police . this idea johnson to the police. this idea that ministers may have been involved as well as the cabinet secretary and cabinet office, what's the deal with story what's the deal with this story ? is witch hunt of boris ? is it a witch hunt of boris johnson? you're not johnson? i know you're not a fan, but do we really need another investigation into partygate david well , i another investigation into partygate david well, i would. to be honest, i was a bit ewwteet— to be honest, i was a bit ewpheet hw— to be honest, i was a bit surprised by it.- to be honest, i was a bit surprised by it. the as you thew,— surprised by it. the as you knew .,_ surprised by it. the as you knew ., ._ surprised by it. the as you know, i, i have— surprised by it. the as you know, i, i have strong views on, on hotte— know, i, i have strong views on, on hehe hwt— know, i, i have strong views on, on boris, but he's— know, i, i have strong views on, on boris, but he's effective on that— on boris, but he's effective on that at— on boris, but he's effective on that at the— on boris, but he's effective on trial at the moment. he's, he's on trial at the moment. he's, he's at that— trial at the moment. he's, he's at that tet— trial at the moment. he's, he's on trial for his— trial at the moment. he's, he's on trial for his career, if you we,— on trial for his career, if you we, wtth— on trial for his career, if you like, with the— on trial for his career, if you like, with the privileges committee _ like, with the privileges committee looking at all the atteoattehe— committee looking at all the allegations and— committee looking at all the allegations and whether or not he teta— allegations and whether or not he tett the— allegations and whether or not he told the truth— allegations and whether or not he told the truth to parliament. now: _ he told the truth to parliament. wow, ht— he told the truth to parliament. wow, tt wew — he told the truth to parliament. wew. h we 90— he told the truth to parliament. wew. h we 90 eh— he told the truth to parliament. now, if you go on trial halfway through— now, if you go on trial halfway through the— now, if you go on trial halfway through the trial,— now, if you go on trial halfway through the trial, somebody aah-t— through the trial, somebody can't come in— through the trial, somebody can't come in and say, oh, by the— can't come in and say, oh, by the way,— can't come in and say, oh, by the waw ah— can't come in and say, oh, by the way, can we— can't come in and say, oh, by the way, can we add shoplifting to the— the way, can we add shoplifting to the burglary?— the way, can we add shoplifting to the burglary? can we can we att— to the burglary? can we can we add att— to the burglary? can we can we add all these— to the burglary? can we can we add all these other charges or the— add all these other charges or thte ether— add all these other charges or this other evidence? and so i do that— this other evidence? and so i do that the— this other evidence? and so i do think this was— this other evidence? and so i do think this was a— this other evidence? and so i do think this was a bit— this other evidence? and so i do think this was a bit of a

misjudgement, whether it's ether— misjudgement, whether it's ether et— misjudgement, whether it's oliver or whether it's simply the— oliver or whether it's simply the tawwete— oliver or whether it's simply the lawyers on— oliver or whether it's simply the lawyers on the investigation team— the lawyers on the investigation team tet— the lawyers on the investigation team for barons— the lawyers on the investigation team for barons hallett's inquiry-— team for barons hallett's hawtw. ._ team for barons hallett's inquiry. i don't- team for barons hallett's inquiry. i don't know. but it twet— inquiry. i don't know. but it twet eemet— inquiry. i don't know. but it just seemed to— inquiry. i don't know. but it just seemed to me not appaephate— just seemed to me not appropriate, frankly. we've got to eeme— appropriate, frankly. we've got to te— appropriate, frankly. we've got to to a— appropriate, frankly. we've got to come to a resolution on home. — to come to a resolution on home. the— to come to a resolution on boris. the key— to come to a resolution on boris. the key issue is about partygate— boris. the key issue is about hattvoate h— boris. the key issue is about hattvoate h h— boris. the key issue is about partygate in in number 10 and how— partygate in in number 10 and how we— partygate in in number 10 and how we describe— partygate in in number 10 and how we describe that, how honest he wae— how we describe that, how honest he ahewt— how we describe that, how honest he was about it.— how we describe that, how honest he was about it. that's the key issue. chequers,— he was about it. that's the key issue. chequers, frankly, is metthet— issue. chequers, frankly, is neither here _ issue. chequers, frankly, is neither here nor there. and it twet— neither here nor there. and it twet ht— neither here nor there. and it twet tt twet— neither here nor there. and it just it just adds.— neither here nor there. and it just it just adds. i mean, i tom-t— just it just adds. i mean, i tem-t agree— just it just adds. i mean, i don't agree arnie with the sort of don't agree arnie with the sort et heate— don't agree arnie with the sort of boris supporters who say this is of boris supporters who say this he a— of boris supporters who say this he a temthte— of boris supporters who say this is a terrible plot.— of boris supporters who say this is a terrible plot. i— of boris supporters who say this is a terrible plot. i just think he— is a terrible plot. i just think he ttamttw— is a terrible plot. i just think he ttamttw a— is a terrible plot. i just think it's frankly a slightly incompetent way of handling the data. — incompetent way of handling the data. although— incompetent way of handling the data. although there's- incompetent way of handling the data. d data. although there's more evidence perhaps for some kind of plot being against former of plot being against the former prime minister because there's now a question mark his now a question mark over his honours list. think lord honours list. i think lord mcfall, the lord speaker, said in the week he had concerns in the week that he had concerns about prime ministerial resignation honours should boris johnson be allowed to honour and ennoble the people he wants, or should at? david should that be looked at? david well, look, we are still half

way through, as i said, this trial, i know it's not over yet. and the when we come to the eemewettem— and the when we come to the conclusion let's— and the when we come to the conclusion let's see what the privilege— conclusion let's see what the privilege committee decide . if privilege committee decide. if they— privilege committee decide. if they teete— privilege committee decide. if they decide that— privilege committee decide. if they decide that he is guilty of a mate— they decide that he is guilty of a major misdemeanour and they and a major misdemeanour and they amt thew— a major misdemeanour and they and they penalise— a major misdemeanour and they and they penalise him accordingly— and they penalise him accordingly ,- and they penalise him accordingly , then maybe we have accordingly, then maybe we have to thtmt— accordingly, then maybe we have to think twice— accordingly, then maybe we have to think twice about about hemewe ._ to think twice about about honours. i happen to think , by honours. i happen to think, by the way,— honours. i happen to think, by the waw that— honours. i happen to think, by the way, that we— honours. i happen to think, by the way, that we are altogether too he— the way, that we are altogether tee taet te — the way, that we are altogether too fast to allow— the way, that we are altogether too fast to allow resignation homowe— too fast to allow resignation homowe tot— too fast to allow resignation honours for prime ministers. i wow— honours for prime ministers. i vow hat— honours for prime ministers. i mean you had liz— honours for prime ministers. i mean you had liz truss in place for mean you had liz truss in place to atmoet— mean you had liz truss in place for almost weeks— mean you had liz truss in place for almost weeks anyway, not atmoet— for almost weeks anyway, not atmoet tave— for almost weeks anyway, not atmoet tawe ._ for almost weeks anyway, not almost days, i can say . you almost days, i can say. you know,— almost days, i can say. you know he— almost days, i can say. you know he ht— almost days, i can say. you know, is it appropriate she has an honours list.— know, is it appropriate she has an honours list. i— know, is it appropriate she has an honours list. i mean i think me— an honours list. i mean i think ehe hae— an honours list. i mean i think ehe hae a— an honours list. i mean i think ehe hae a tot— an honours list. i mean i think she has a lot of— an honours list. i mean i think she has a lot of sympathy . well, she has a lot of sympathy. well, i she has a lot of sympathy. well, . have— she has a lot of sympathy. well, . have a— she has a lot of sympathy. well, . have a tot— she has a lot of sympathy. well, i have a lot of— she has a lot of sympathy. well, i have a lot of sympathy with heat.— i have a lot of sympathy with meat ._ i have a lot of sympathy with mcfall. i think— i have a lot of sympathy with mcfall. i think resignation homowe— mcfall. i think resignation honours lists— mcfall. i think resignation honours lists are a bad idea. tatt— honours lists are a bad idea. tau-tam— honours lists are a bad idea. twtt-um thew- honours lists are a bad idea. full um they, they , they full stop. um they, they, they thew— full stop. um they, they, they thew teat— full stop. um they, they, they thew teat to— full stop. um they, they, they thew teat to a— full stop. um they, they, they they lead to a feeling . whether they lead to a feeling. whether it's they lead to a feeling. whether he twe— they lead to a feeling. whether he true or— they lead to a feeling. whether it's true or not,— they lead to a feeling. whether it's true or not, they lead to a teetho— it's true or not, they lead to a teetho that— it's true or not, they lead to a feeling that people are just paying— feeling that people are just paying ott— feeling that people are just paying off their friends or otwmo— paying off their friends or otwmo theta— paying off their friends or giving their relatives reward or theta— giving their relatives reward or their relatives. _ giving their relatives reward or their relatives. j? t: giving their relatives reward or their relatives. jo : giving their relatives reward or their relatives. jet a: toot their relatives. david, what do you think about stanley johnson

maybe honoured by his own maybe being honoured by his own son? well, that that would be an appaophate— son? well, that that would be an appjopriatea h— son? well, that that would be an appjopriatea tm my— , well, that that would be an appropriate, in my view. um, you know— appropriate, in my view. um, you know wow-we— appropriate, in my view. um, you know. vow-we got— appropriate, in my view. um, you know, you've got to— appropriate, in my view. um, you know, you've got to have at teaet— know, you've got to have at teaet ome— know, you've got to have at least some reason for the homow— least some reason for the homow ._ least some reason for the honour. i mean- least some reason for the honour. i mean , sometimes the honour. i mean, sometimes the reasons charitable— honour. i mean, sometimes the reasons charitable work, eometmee— reasons charitable work, sometimes it's other things. he— sometimes it's other things. he h— sometimes it's other things. it's in modern— sometimes it's other things. it's in modern times it's become rather— it's in modern times it's become rather too— it's in modern times it's become rather too common— it's in modern times it's become rather too common for party twmteae— rather too common for party twmteae amt— rather too common for party funders and the— rather too common for party funders and the like to get homowe so— funders and the like to get honours. so my— funders and the like to get honours. so my view is that we meet— honours. so my view is that we meet to— honours. so my view is that we need to streamline— honours. so my view is that we need to streamline it. we need to etwe— need to streamline it. we need to etwe the— need to streamline it. we need to reduce the size— need to streamline it. we need to reduce the size of the lords amvwaw— to reduce the size of the lords anywaya amt— to reduce the size of the lords anyway, and basically to halve it anyway, and basically to halve tt amt— anyway, and basically to halve tt amt we— anyway, and basically to halve it and we won't— anyway, and basically to halve it and we won't do that if we keep— it and we won't do that if we keep eemttmt— it and we won't do that if we keep sending along people who are keep sending along people who theate— keep sending along people who are friends-the— keep sending along people who are friends the prime are friends of the prime tthtetea. — are friends of the prime minister. are friends of the prime. minister. -halve the minister. if you halve the lords, that might stop lords, david, that might stop your chances of becoming ennobled in future years . i ennobled in future years. i suspect i'm going to die in hameee— suspect i'm going to die in hameee h— suspect i'm going to die in harness in the— suspect i'm going to die in harness in the commons. actually no, harness in the commons. actually tt-e— harness in the commons. actually tt-e mot— harness in the commons. actually no, it's not politics,— harness in the commons. actually no, it's not politics, david. hat— no, it's not politics, david. hwt wow— no, it's not politics, david. hwt wow. ._ no, it's not politics, david. but you, i know— no, it's not politics, david. but you, i know you're- but you, i know you're a voracious reader of the newspapers on this phillip schofield situation . do you schofield situation. do you think the itv need to carry out some kind of internal investigation into what's gone wrong ? you know what i mean?

wrong? you know what i mean? this i mean , oh, i think we've this i mean, oh, i think we've toet— this i mean, oh, i think we've toet oawt— this i mean, oh, i think we've lost david davis— this i mean, oh, i think we've lost david davis there. let's try ant— lost david davis there. let's try aht oet— lost david davis there. let's try aht get htm— lost david davis there. let's try and get him back. unfortunately, i think his signal has gone out. i mean, the whole point i was going to ask about phillip schofield is whether the itv should launch an investigation . obviously, i've investigation. obviously, i've been show, been working on that show, i think, since thousand and think, since two thousand and seven. on very well seven. always got on very well with philip holly. but with both philip and holly. but it's difficult one because it's a difficult one because there questions being there are questions being asked about knew and about how much itv knew and when. i think it's difficult now we hope to get david davis back in just minute. i think we're in just a minute. i think we're going go a break now just going to go to a break now just so we can try and sort out our comms issues. there's lots more to the show, not just to come on the show, not just david davis, hopefully finishing answering some of those questions, going to questions, but i'm also going to be to labour's lord questions, but i'm also going to be hutton,to labour's lord questions, but i'm also going to be hutton, who bour's lord questions, but i'm also going to be hutton, who served_ord john hutton, who served in a number of important roles, both under and gordon under tony blair and gordon brown. i'd like his take on whether starmer is the new blair or perhaps an imposter to orjust perhaps an imposter to join little later with all join me a little later with all of stay tuned. of that. please stay tuned. we'll back with we'll be back with great interviews, with interviews, including with john

cleese so don't cleese as well. so don't go anywhere .

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. right. we've eoatet— tominey show. right. we've eoatet oat— tominey show. right. we've sorted out our— “oya right. we've sorted out our technical errors amt— sorted out our technical errors amt ._ sorted out our technical errors amt . thtmt— sorted out our technical errors and i think we've— sorted out our technical errors and i think we've got david dawe— and i think we've got david oawe tact. — and i think we've got david davis back. sorry to have interrupted _ davis back. sorry to have interrupted that interview. oawt— interrupted that interview. oawtlmow— interrupted that interview. david i now we - interrupted that interview. david now we were talking

david so now we were talking about— david so now we were talking atowt-twtet— david so now we were talking about-quick yes- david so now we were talking about quick yes no about just a quick yes no answer. -itv- about just a quick yes no answer. itv launch about just a quick yes no- answer.-itv launch an answer. should itv launch an investigation— answer. should itv launch an investigation schofield, investigation into schofield, ves— investigation into schofield, wee-oawtte- investigation into schofield, yes david? we'll investigation into schofield,- yes-david?-we'll move yes or no, david? and we'll move ho.— yes or no, david? and we'll move on. no, no, no. okay— yes or no, david? and we'll move on. hot �*" on. no, no, no. okay fine. let's move on to the- on. hot �*" let's move on to the economy . let's move on to the economy. we-we— let's move on to the economy. we-we hat— let's move on to the economy. we-we hat am— let's move on to the economy. we've had an interesting etatememt— we've had an interesting statement from jeremy hunt, the chameettoh — statement from jeremy hunt, the chameettoh h— statement from jeremy hunt, the chancellor, in the— statement from jeremy hunt, the chancellor, in the week , chancellor, in the week, taeteattw— chancellor, in the week, basically saying he would basically saying that he would rather— basically saying that he would rather we— basically saying that he would rather we went— basically saying that he would rather we went into recession to that — rather we went into recession to bring inflation— rather we went into recession to bring inflation down than have httattom— bring inflation down than have inflation continue to creep up . inflation continue to creep up. hem-t— inflation continue to creep up. tem-t that— inflation continue to creep up. tem-t that twet— inflation continue to creep up. isn't that just managed decline tem — isn't that just managed decline tem e— isn't that just managed decline tem ewhat-e— isn't that just managed decline ism ? what's the— isn't that just managed decline ism ? what's the chancellor ism? what's the chancellor tattht— ism? what's the chancellor talking about— ism? what's the chancellor talking about here? do you agree wtth— talking about here? do you agree wtth thte— talking about here? do you agree wtth thte e— talking about here? do you agree wtth thte e to— talking about here? do you agree with this ? no, no— talking about here? do you agree with this ? no, no ,_ talking about here? do you agree with this ? no, no , the reverse. with this? no, no, the reverse. i with this? no, no, the reverse. . mean— with this? no, no, the reverse. . toot.— with this? no, no, the reverse. i mean, look, if— with this? no, no, the reverse. i mean, look, if inflation- with this? no, no, the reverse. i mean, look, if inflation took off , it would i mean, look, if inflation took off, it would undermine the bafis off, it would undermine the basis of growth. it would cut people's incomes, you know, cost of living would basically drive their effective income down. i'm old enough , i'm afraid, to old enough, i'm afraid, to remember the last time we had very high levels of inflation, andifs very high levels of inflation, and it's incredibly corrosive . and it's incredibly corrosive. it destroys growth by itself. so he's right . it destroys growth by itself. so he's right. he's got to fix that first. i mean, i wouldn't quite have put it in those terms. know ones worth the other. i would have just said, you've got to

fix one before you get the other. you've to fix other. you've got to fix inflation before you get sustainable growth. have got sustainable growth. have you got concerns sustainable growth. have you got eometmee-th— sustainable growth. have you got concerns-the bank- sustainable growth. have you got concerns-the bank of- concerns about the bank of tmttamt-e— concerns about the bank of england's behaviour and all the— england's behaviour and all the ._ england's behaviour and all this? i know— england's behaviour and all this? i know during week this? i know during the week wow-we— this? i know during the week. wow-we—atowt you've been speaking out about thora— you've been speaking out about libor, suggesting that libor, you're suggesting that oethahe— libor, you're suggesting that perhaps parliament might have libor, you're suggesting that perhamislediament might have libor, you're suggesting that perhamisled byient might have libor, you're suggesting that perhamisled by the might have libor, you're suggesting that perhamisled by the bank: have libor, you're suggesting that perha misled by the bank of ave been misled by the bank of tmotamt— been misled by the bank of england over— been misled by the bank of england over the fixing of hteaeet— england over the fixing of interest rates— england over the fixing of interest rates back in the early mowthtteee— interest rates back in the early noughties? what's gone on noughties? what's what's gone on here— noughties? what's what's gone on here? do— noughties? what's what's gone on here? to wow— noughties? what's what's gone on here? do you think— noughties? what's what's gone on here? do you think that andrew hattew—at- here? do you think that andrew hattew—at the| bailey has been asleep at the wheet— bailey has been asleep at the wheet e — bailey has been asleep at the wheel ? well,— bailey has been asleep at the wheel ? well, no.- bailey has been asleep at the wheel ? well, no. i- bailey has been asleep at the wheel ? �*thtoll i“ wheel? well, no. i mean, that's a long while ago. i mean, it's pretty pre bailey time. so that particular concern and it's very specific about miscarriage of justice. but i do think there is an issue of the sheer amount of money that the bank has pumped into the economy. they call it qe, which is basically essentially printing money to buy government bonds. but what it does is it is it it pushes what they call core inflation, the underlying inflation. we are doing okay on energy costs. we're doing okay. not not good enough on bringing the inflation level in in groceries down, but

the core inflation is still going up worse for us than most other countries. that's at the door of the bank that is right at the door of the bank . and the at the door of the bank. and the bank has got to account for it because if you keep printing money, we know what happens. we end ending end up with never ending inflation. destroys inflation. that destroys everything. you know, you talked about— everything. you know, you talked atowt—theae. — everything. you know, you talked about-there. -do. about groceries there. what do you— about groceries there. what do wow-ot— about groceries there. what do wow-ot tteht— about groceries there. what do you of rishi sunak's you make of rishi sunak's intervention— you make of rishi sunak's intervention food , suggesting intervention on food, suggesting that— intervention on food, suggesting that-supermarket— intervention on food, suggesting that supermarket should cap that the supermarket should cap the phoe— that the supermarket should cap the the ot— that the supermarket should cap the price of basic— that the supermarket should cap the price of basic goods ? i the price of basic goods? i thte— the price of basic goods? i mean, this is— the price of basic goods? i mean, this is a— the price of basic goods? i mean, this is a bit like a kind of mean, this is a bit like a kind ot sowet— mean, this is a bit like a kind of soviet union— mean, this is a bit like a kind of soviet union policy, isn't it? of soviet union policy, isn't to showt— of soviet union policy, isn't it? should the— of soviet union policy, isn't it? should the conservatives be tmtewemho— it? should the conservatives be intervening supermarket intervening on supermarket hateeee— intervening on supermarket prices? david— intervening on supermarket prices? david well, it's a bit the— prices? david well, it's a bit the a— prices? david well, it's a bit more like a french policy, but he aetwattw— more like a french policy, but he actually does— more like a french policy, but he actually does have an economic point. the what's happening is that the raw material prices are coming down and they're not making their way through the food chain, if you like, fast enough. so if i were sunak, i'd be making tesco's and sainsbury's and whoever explain why their pricing is as high as it is now. they should be able

to bring the price down quite quickly. and what's the trouble? look, if you run a business, you're going to be quick to increase your prices. when your costs you're going to costs go up, you're not going to be quick to reduce them be quite so quick to reduce them when down and the when they go down and the government is doing right government is doing the right thing, pressure them. thing, putting pressure on them. i mean, i think actually, i mean, i agree with you. i hate the idea of price controls. i've lived through too. they're a through them, too. they're a disaster. that's not disaster. and i hope that's not what talking about. what what he's talking about. what he'll about is get on he'll be talking about is get on with getting the prices in line with getting the prices in line with your raw material costs and what 660,000 migration what about the 660,000 migration figure, need to figure, david? does that need to omeo-o— figure, david? does that need to omeo-o wow— figure, david? does that need to come-do you think- come down? do you think the government— come down? do you think the towemmemt—eahi come down? do you think the. government—cap on government should set a cap on mttaamte— government should set a cap on mttaamte-tmto- government should set a cap on migrants-into the- government should set a cap on migrants into the uk ? migrants coming into the uk? yeah.— migrants coming into the uk? veah. ._ migrants coming into the uk? veah. . mean— migrants coming into the uk? yeah, i mean, it— migrants coming into the uk? yeah, i mean, it certainly- migrants coming into the uk? t/oe" " e yeah, i mean, it certainly has to come down. your your comments from alexander downer earlier were absolutely on the nail. you know, there are some special things. there's hong kong and there's and but there's ukraine and so on. but there's ukraine and so on. but there are things in there which are bonkers. are just bonkers. i mean, frankly , students should not be frankly, students should not be bringing their families here at all unless they're coming to stay forever. i mean, look, if you know, if you want to come

and study for a phd in the uk, even then i would i would think twice about allowing families to come. quite a lot of universities now are actually employing people to advertise, taking degrees in the uk as a way to bring your family. this is happening in india. we've seen some of these examples and that's just wrong . and the home that's just wrong. and the home office should have had a grip of this some time ago by the same measure. you should also be a bit tough on treasury. bit tough on the treasury. i mean, the treasury. look, gordon bit tough on the treasury. i mean, startedasury. look, gordon bit tough on the treasury. i mean, started thisj. look, gordon bit tough on the treasury. i mean, started this habit., gordon bit tough on the treasury. i mean, started this habit ofaordon brown started this habit of increasing immigration in order to artificially push up the growth rate . downer was right. growth rate. downer was right. it's the growth rate per capita. the gdp per capita that matters. and if the only way you're pushing up the growth rate is by bringing people in, you're storing up problems for the future and of course storing up problems for the day with housing on. so both housing and so on. so both sides, treasury and home office, need get their together, need to get their act together, for deluding for both of them are deluding themselves of are not themselves. both of them are not doing proper professional job doing a proper professional job and need to a grip on and they need to get a grip on it. david davis, thank you very

much— it. david davis, thank you very math-toa— it. david davis, thank you very math-tot wow- it. david davis, thank you very much-for your time- c david davis, thank you very much for your time this much indeed for your time this momht. — much indeed for your time this momht. -the- much indeed for your time this morning. the technical morning. sorry for the technical tttttewtttee — morning. sorry for the technical difficulties, but— morning. sorry for the technical difficulties, but it's been towetw— difficulties, but it's been lovely-from - difficulties, but it's been lovely from you. difficulties, but it's been- lovely-from you. andrew lovely to hear from you. andrew wett— lovely to hear from you. andrew out, tote— lovely to hear from you. andrew well, lots more— lovely to hear from you. andrew well, lots more to— lovely to hear from you. andrew well, lots more to come on totaw-e— well, lots more to come on totav-e ehow. — well, lots more to come on today's show. i'm going to be very— today's show. i'm going to be very exettet— today's show. i'm going to be very excited to— today's show. i'm going to be very excited to speak to john cteeee,— very excited to speak to john cteeee, etat— very excited to speak to john cleese, star of— very excited to speak to john cleese, star of monty python and tawttw— cleese, star of monty python and tawttv twee — cleese, star of monty python and fawlty towers. he's— cleese, star of monty python and fawlty towers. he's going to be wtth— fawlty towers. he's going to be wtth me— fawlty towers. he's going to be wtth me here— fawlty towers. he's going to be with me here in— fawlty towers. he's going to be with me here in the studio. and t-m— with me here in the studio. and t-m ateo— with me here in the studio. and tm ateo ootmo— with me here in the studio. and i'm also going to— with me here in the studio. and i'm also going to be joined by tatow— i'm also going to be joined by tatow-toat- i'm also going to be joined by labour-lord john- i'm also going to be joined by labour lord john hutton. labour grandee lord john hutton. but labour grandee lord john hutton. hat—the— labour grandee lord john hutton. hat—the newe- but first, here's the news heatttmee— but first, here's the news headlines with- but first, here's the news headlines with tatiana sanchez . headlines with tatiana sanchez. camtta— headlines with tatiana sanchez. camtta thamt— headlines with tatiana sanchez. camila thank you— headlines with tatiana sanchez. camila thank you very much and toot— camila thank you very much and toot momtmo— camila thank you very much and good morning. this— camila thank you very much and good morning. this is the latest trom— good morning. this is the latest tom the— good morning. this is the latest from the newsroom. the government— from the newsroom. the government has launching an ad campaign to stop people from crossing the channel the advert is set to circulated in is set to be circulated in albania week, will warn albania next week, will warn people they being detained people they face being detained and removed if they make the journey. critics have already branded it as pointless, saying it won't deter them. a record number of people made the crossing in small boats last

year and more than 6000 have been intercepted so far this year. been intercepted so far this year . new details have emerged year. new details have emerged surrounding philip schofield's relationship with a young itv employee . the boy was reportedly employee. the boy was reportedly 15 years old when the pair met with the mail on sunday, saying the teen asked for help in getting a job. the tv presenter arranged an interview for him, which resulted in a junior position when he turned 18. the affair started later. editor of the mail on sunday, charlotte griffith, says they were right to question the relationship . to question the relationship. it's so unprecedented. and he wrote to katie hind— it's so unprecedented. and he wrote to katie hind and- c c. f:: and he wrote to katie hind and said, i tom-t— wrote to katie hind and said, i tom-t expect— wrote to katie hind and said, i don't expect any— wrote to katie hind and said, i don't expect any mercy , which is don't expect any mercy, which is extaaoathaw— don't expect any mercy, which is extaaoathaw .— don't expect any mercy, which is extraordinary . and— don't expect any mercy, which is extraordinary . and it's because extraordinary. and it's because aetwattw— extraordinary. and it's because actually katie _ extraordinary. and it's because actually katie had been very thawe— actually katie had been very taawe amt— actually katie had been very brave and done— actually katie had been very brave and done a story a couple of brave and done a story a couple ot weeke— brave and done a story a couple ot weete ato— brave and done a story a couple of weeks ago that— brave and done a story a couple of weeks ago that sort of went tatte— of weeks ago that sort of went twtte tat— of weeks ago that sort of went twtte tat to— of weeks ago that sort of went quite far to hint— of weeks ago that sort of went quite far to hint at this friendship— quite far to hint at this friendship ._ quite far to hint at this friendship . and he sent a friendship. and he sent a eomotaht— friendship. and he sent a complaint to— friendship. and he sent a complaint to ipso and said , you complaint to ipso and said, you hmow— complaint to ipso and said, you know the— complaint to ipso and said, you know, the mail— complaint to ipso and said, you know, the mail has— complaint to ipso and said, you know, the mail has you know, got the— know, the mail has you know, got thte tot— know, the mail has you know, got thte got the— know, the mail has you know, got this, got this wrong,— know, the mail has you know, got this, got this wrong, and of course we hadn't. and so he was he wae— course we hadn't. and so he was he htht— course we hadn't. and so he was he hoht to— course we hadn't. and so he was he was right to apologise. but it's he was right to apologise. but he mot— he was right to apologise. but he mot wow— he was right to apologise. but it's not very often— he was right to apologise. but it's not very often in showbiz

that— it's not very often in showbiz that peopte— it's not very often in showbiz that peopte to— it's not very often in showbiz that people do do a full mea eutha— that people do do a full mea outta the— that people do do a full mea culpa like that— that people do do a full mea culpa like that and say, don't ehow— culpa like that and say, don't ehow me— culpa like that and say, don't ehow me amy— culpa like that and say, don't show me any mercy . i“ show me any mercy. seven people have been charged with the attempted murder of a police officer in county tyrone. detective chief inspector john caldwell was shot several times at a sports centre in omagh in february . two at a sports centre in omagh in february. two men were at a sports centre in omagh in february . two men were also february. two men were also charged for being members of the ira and three others with the preparation of terrorist acts. all seven men will appear in court via video link tomorrow . court via video link tomorrow. ukraine says it's down to at least 40 drones in what it's described as the latest largest drone attack on the city since the start of the war. more . the start of the war. more. that's according to the head of the kyiv military who's confirmed russia used the iranian made drones in the pre—dawn attack on the city's caphal pre—dawn attack on the city's capital. kyiv the mayor, vitali klitschko, says the air alert lasted more than five hours with falling debris, killing one

person . and the rail minister person. and the rail minister says it's down to the unions where the nationalising transpennine express services improves performance. the train operator is under government control from today, with services now running under a new brand name transpennine trains. the government hopes to reduce the number of train cancellations . tv online dab+ cancellations. tv online dab+ radio and on tune in. this is gb news. now it's back to . news. now it's back to. camilla welcome back to the camilla news. now it's back to. camilla welcome badon't the camilla news. now it's back to. camilla welcome badon't forget,nilla tominey show. don't forget, i've got tominey show. don't forget, i've tot-cteeee— tominey show. don't forget, i've got-cleese live _ tominey show. don't forget, i've got-cleese live in- tominey show. don't forget, i've got cleese live in the got john cleese live in the etwtto— got john cleese live in the studio-moment. got john cleese live in the- studio-moment. comedy studio in just a moment. comedy tetemt— studio in just a moment. comedy tetemt-toht— studio in just a moment. comedy teoemt. none to— studio in just a moment. comedy legend.-going to be- studio in just a moment. comedy legend. going to be joining legend. he's going to be joining gb legend. he's going to be joining eh-tettht— legend. he's going to be joining eh-tettht me- legend. he's going to be joining gb -telling me all- legend. he's going to be joining gb telling me all about gb news and telling me all about his gb news and telling me all about hte mew— gb news and telling me all about his new documentary series for the— his new documentary series for thte ehammet. — his new documentary series for this channel. going to this channel. i'm also going to be this channel. i'm also going to te-toee— this channel. i'm also going to be-ross clark,- be joined by ross clark, who's a eotwmmtet— be joined by ross clark, who's a columnist and— be joined by ross clark, who's a columnist and mr— be joined by ross clark, who's a columnist and mr common sense and columnist and mr common sense amt-author— columnist and mr common sense amt-awthoa ot— columnist and mr common sense and-author of not— columnist and mr common sense and author of not zero. he's and the author of not zero. he's going— and the author of not zero. he's ootmt to— and the author of not zero. he's ootmo toltettht— and the author of not zero. he's going to telling me why going to be telling me why the oow-emmemte—

government's green plans are mathe— government's green plans are matht-hooaea. - government's green plans are making poorer. but first making people poorer. but first of making people poorer. but first ot att— making people poorer. but first ot an, t-m— making people poorer. but first of all, i'm joined— making people poorer. but first of all, i'm joined by lord john hwttom. — of all, i'm joined by lord john hwttom. he-e— of all, i'm joined by lord john hutton. he's labour bigwig. he hutton. he's a labour bigwig. he was former defence _ hutton. he's a labour bigwig. he was former defence secretary and hwetmeee— business secretary a very close ally— business secretary a very close attvltomw— business secretary a very close ally-tony blair's— business secretary a very close ally-tony blair's .- business secretary a very close ally tony blair's . lord ally of tony blair's. lord hwttoh— ally of tony blair's. lord hutton, lovely- ally of tony blair's. lord hutton, lovely to speak to you totaw— hutton, lovely to speak to you totaw .— hutton, lovely to speak to you totaw . ._ hutton, lovely to speak to you totav . t hmow— hutton, lovely to speak to you today . i know you— hutton, lovely to speak to you today . i know you don't often do today. i know you don't often do that— today. i know you don't often do that much— today. i know you don't often do that much media— today. i know you don't often do that much media or come on gb wewe— that much media or come on gb wewe-oaeat— that much media or come on gb news-greatlhave- that much media or come on gb news great have you news so it's great to have you as news so it's great to have you ae a tweet— news so it's great to have you as a new guest on— news so it's great to have you as a new guest on this show. now tet-e— as a new guest on this show. now tet-e tatt— as a new guest on this show. now let's talk about— as a new guest on this show. now let's talk about migration. thet— let's talk about migration. thet ot— let's talk about migration. first of all,— let's talk about migration. first of all, it— let's talk about migration. first of all, it quadrupled wmtea— first of all, it quadrupled water-ht- first of all, it quadrupled under-it was- first of all, it quadrupled- under-it was -times under labour. it was five times the majo— under labour. it was five times the major government. it now etamte—at- stands legal migration at oooooo. — stands legal migration at. 606,000. _think stands legal migration at- 606,000. _think the 606,000. what do you think the tatow— 606,000. what do you think the labour-solution- 606,000. what do you think the labour- solution to- labour party's solution to this ehowtt— labour party's solution to this ehowtt tee— labour party's solution to this ehowtt tee — labour party's solution to this should be? well,— labour party's solution to this should be? well, i- labour party's solution to this should be? �*thtocc should be? well, i think immigration is too high. i think most people accept that there's no easy solution to this problem. it's a global phenomenon . people are moving phenomenon. people are moving around and i think we've got to certainly deal with the boats, the illegal entry, but i think we've got to take a very long, hard look at the other aspects of immigration policy. david davis referred to families of students coming in. and so on. i mean, i think there are things that can be done, but it's got to be done in a way that doesn't damage the economy. and supports

the think these the growth agenda. i think these are important issues for us now because i think securing economic growth probably the economic growth is probably the biggest that biggest economic challenge that we we're growing as an we face. we're not growing as an economy enough, and that economy quickly enough, and that doesn't our doesn't allow us to support our pubuc doesn't allow us to support our public services the that public services in the way that we want so there is a very we want to. so there is a very big challenge be done there. big challenge to be done there. and i i'm basically in and i i'm basically not in favour sort of quick fix sort favour of sort of quick fix sort of slogans to fix this problem because it's a complicated set of issues that we've got to face. and i don't want to pander to the sort of the negative forces here that seem aggression per se is a bad thing. immigration is not a bad thing for the uk as long as it's handled properly and well. do you think the labour vote- do you think the labour vote is wow— you think the labour vote is worry atowt— you think the labour vote is worry about it— you think the labour vote is worry about it though? i mean, a lot worry about it though? i mean, a tot eatt— worry about it though? i mean, a lot said about— worry about it though? i mean, a lot said about people on the htht— lot said about people on the hoht amt— lot said about people on the hoht amt vow— lot said about people on the right and you know, the re—emergence of my colleague hete— re—emergence of my colleague here at— re—emergence of my colleague here at th— re—emergence of my colleague here at gb-nigel- re—emergence of my colleague here at gb nigel farage here at gb news, nigel farage amt— here at gb news, nigel farage amt att— here at gb news, nigel farage amt at the— here at gb news, nigel farage and all the rest— here at gb news, nigel farage and all the rest of it. but it's ateo— and all the rest of it. but it's ateo a— and all the rest of it. but it's also a concern— and all the rest of it. but it's also a concern on— and all the rest of it. but it's also a concern on labour tooaetehe— also a concern on labour doorsteps, these doorsteps, isn't it, these sorts of doorsteps, isn't it, these sorts ot mwmteaee— doorsteps, isn't it, these sorts of numbers? well— doorsteps, isn't it, these sorts of numbers? well definitely. i. mew—ah mean, i remember, you know, all the was member of the time i was a member of parliament, people would come and see me and say, you know, mr hutton, to do

hutton, we've got to do something about the levels of immigration. an immigration. this is not an issue that easily issue that is easily characterised as on the left. people think this the right. people think this on the right. they that. i think they think that. i think most people who aren't really left or right but are of sensibly right but are sort of sensibly in the middle , are worried about in the middle, are worried about what this means for our public services, our housing and everything else. and those are perfectly reasonable concerns. that's not racism, and i think we should be clear about that. now, i remember a while ago you twotet— now, i remember a while ago you twotet ott— now, i remember a while ago you were quoted off the— now, i remember a while ago you were quoted off the record, i that,— were quoted off the record, i think, describing gordon brown tethe— think, describing gordon brown tetmo perhape— think, describing gordon brown being perhaps an disaster for the country— being perhaps an disaster for the country when he was about to teome— the country when he was about to teome thme— the country when he was about to become prime minister i know wowe— become prime minister i know vow-e wow— become prime minister i know you're very aligned to tony htah — you're very aligned to tony htah how— you're very aligned to tony blair. how do— you're very aligned to tony blair. how do you view sir keir stamen— blair. how do you view sir keir starmer? because— blair. how do you view sir keir starmer? because a lot of people say starmer? because a lot of people eaw that— starmer? because a lot of people eaw that he— starmer? because a lot of people say that he lacks— starmer? because a lot of people say that he lacks his charisma amt— say that he lacks his charisma and magnetism _ say that he lacks his charisma and magnetism ._ say that he lacks his charisma and magnetism . um, is keir and magnetism. um, is keir staamea— and magnetism. um, is keir staamea the— and magnetism. um, is keir starmer the person to take tatow— starmer the person to take labour voters— starmer the person to take labour voters over the top come 202th— labour voters over the top come zoztelwow— labour voters over the top come 2024?.you think— labour voters over the top come 2024?.you think ? - labour voters over the top come 2024? you think ? “toot“ 2024? do you think? yeah, i thmt— 2024? do you think? yeah, i thmt he— 2024? do you think? yeah, i thmt he he— 2024? do you think? yeah, i think he is and i think keir faces very similar challenges to those that faced tony back in 1994, 95. we've got to repair our the enormous damage done to

the labour party by jeremy corbyn and the country in 2019 took one look at us and said, no, thank you very much indeed. and i think not many people thought we'd be back in the position where we could be competing public office competing for public office again the space one again in the space of one parliament. and we are. and i think that's down to keir. he's shown taken think that's down to keir. he's shown back taken think that's down to keir. he's shown back to taken think that's down to keir. he's shown back to the taken think that's down to keir. he's shown back to the centre (en think that's down to keir. he's shown back to the centre ground labour back to the centre ground where we have to be. we have to broaden our appeal. if snp, lib dem at the last election and that's a really tough gig, you know, he's got to keep his focus on broadening labour's appeal and he's doing it in his own way, in style and i think he's doing it very effectively . i doing it very effectively. i mean we got a significant poll lead. a lot of people think keir will be will be prime minister , will be will be prime minister, but it's not 1997 again, is it? lord i mean, there's not lord hutton? i mean, there's not the— lord hutton? i mean, there's not thte hate— lord hutton? i mean, there's not this huge clamour_ lord hutton? i mean, there's not this huge clamour around sir teta— this huge clamour around sir tea-eome— this huge clamour around sir teta-eome ot- this huge clamour around sir keir- some of the- keir in fact, some of the pollin9a_ keir in fact, some of the polling, when- keir in fact, some of the polling, when people are asked, what— polling, when people are asked, what-mate— polling, when people are asked, what-mate ot- polling, when people are asked, what-make of the- polling, when people are asked, what make of the labour what do you make of the labour teateh—hae- what do you make of the labour leader,_has been. leader, the response has been tom-t— leader, the response has been tom-t-that-e— leader, the response has been don't-that's been- leader, the response has been don't that's been the don't know. that's been the wetomhamt— don't know. that's been the predominant response . predominant response. i think that-e— predominant response. i think that-e ttwe. — predominant response. i think that's true. but i also think,

camilla, that i think there is a sense that we need a change in our politics. and i am old enough and david davis is referring to old being old enough to remember inflation. i'm old enough to remember the time when jim callaghan was facing off against margaret thatcher, the run up to the 79 election, every poll , jim election, and on every poll, jim outpolled margaret thatcher significantly as the best person to lead the country. but we got absolutely hammered . so i think absolutely hammered. so i think really the zeitgeist is, is there a mood for change? i think undoubtedly there is. there's been so many terrible mistakes made and an embarrassing series of political sort of disasters in the last 12 months. i think there's undoubtedly a mood for change. and i think the challenge for keir is to keep riding that mood for change and making sure that labour is the party that has the broadest appeal has sensible plan appeal and has a sensible plan for and growing the for growth and growing the economy. and those are still issues i think labour has issues i think that labour has got address, but think got to address, but i think we're labour on the we're undoubted labour is on the right path now. could blair right path now. could tony blair be the labour

be doing more for the labour movement? i mean there isn't a week— movement? i mean there isn't a week that— movement? i mean there isn't a week that toee— movement? i mean there isn't a week that goes by— movement? i mean there isn't a week that goes by that- , i mean there isn't a week that goes by that i don't receive an email— week that goes by that i don't receive an email from the tony etate— receive an email from the tony blair foundation.— receive an email from the tony blair foundation. an there's teem— blair foundation. an there's teem-ot— blair foundation. an there's teem-ot a— blair foundation. an there's been -of a talk- blair foundation. an there's been -of a talk in- blair foundation. an there's been of a talk in the past been a bit of a talk in the past atowt— been a bit of a talk in the past about—ministers. been a bit of a talk in the past abou on_ministersi been a bit of a talk in the past abou on the ministers been a bit of a talk in the past abou on the right ministers been a bit of a talk in the past abou on the right and inisters been a bit of a talk in the past abou on the right and left,ers both on the right and left, toho— both on the right and left, toht a— both on the right and left, totmo a th— both on the right and left, doing a bit too— both on the right and left, doing a bit too much backseat thwho— doing a bit too much backseat thwmt. te— doing a bit too much backseat driving. is that— doing a bit too much backseat driving. is that a— doing a bit too much backseat driving. is that a fair criticism _ driving. is that a fair criticism of- driving. is that a fair criticism of former criticism of your former eotteaowee— criticism of your former. colleague?-think criticism of your former- colleague?-think tony colleague? i i don't think tony is colleague? i i don't think tony te twtmo— colleague? i i don't think tony te twtmo to— colleague? i i don't think tony te twtmo to te— colleague? i i don't think tony is trying to be backseat is trying to be a backseat thwea. — is trying to be a backseat thwea. ._ is trying to be a backseat driver. i mean,- is trying to be a backseat driver. i“ is trying to be a backseat- driver. i mean, he is a person who's got very strong views about the world. and there formed his experience not formed by his experience not just in government, but since leaving government. and i think it would be a very sensible thing for the labour party to continue to listen to, to what tony is saying about the challenges of the future. but it isn't, you know, a simple question back to what question of going back to what tony 1994 1995, 96. tony did in 1994 and 1995, 96. these are different times . it's these are different times. it's a completely different political landscape. and i think keir starmer has got to tackle these problems in the way that he has done using his own personality and style and make sure that it's the policy , that the policy it's the policy, that the policy is right for the country. i

mean, people will hammer away at politicians where you don't smile enough , you don't look smile enough, you don't look enough, you don't look well enough. you know, you don't dress well enough. i'm fine. all that stuff is going on in the background, at end of background, but at the end of the day, have to trust the day, people have to trust your of where want to your sense of where you want to take country. and that's take the country. and that's that's fundamental challenge take the country. and that's tha labourfundamental challenge take the country. and that's tha labour and amental challenge take the country. and that's tha labour and allzntal challenge take the country. and that's tha labour and allznt the 1allenge take the country. and that's tha labour and allznt the laboura for labour and all of the labour frontbench is to keep frontbench team is to keep focusing those big issues focusing on those big issues that a country and that we face as a country and they're different from from where ago. do where they were 30 years ago. do you think labour are doing enough? lord hutton on the eo—eattet— enough? lord hutton on the so—called-wars,- enough? lord hutton on the so—called-wars, i- enough? lord hutton on the. so—called-wars, i mean, so—called culture wars, i mean, i so—called culture wars, i mean, t—om- so—called culture wars, i mean, t—om thel i know there are some on the tett— i know there are some on the tett that— i know there are some on the left that-it's— i know there are some on the left that-it's all- left that say it's all completely- left that say it's all completely but completely overhyped, but i that— completely overhyped, but i think-bother- completely overhyped, but i think bother people on think they do bother people on the tooaeteh.— think they do bother people on the doorstep. got— think they do bother people on the doorstep. got this strange ettwattom— the doorstep. got this strange situation-keir- the doorstep. got this strange situation keir starmer situation where sir keir starmer tam-t— situation where sir keir starmer eam-t tatte— situation where sir keir starmer can't quite bring— situation where sir keir starmer can't quite bring to can't quite bring himself to tethe— can't quite bring himself to define _woman- can't quite bring himself to define woman is and define what a woman is and whether— define what a woman is and whether-she- define what a woman is and whether she does or whether or not she does or toeem-t— whether or not she does or doesn't-penis.- whether or not she does or doesn't penis. what do doesn't have a penis. what do you— doesn't have a penis. what do wow-thate— doesn't have a penis. what do you-that? well- doesn't have a penis. what do you that? well well, you think on that? well well, i that— you think on that? well well, i think undoubtedly, you know, the— think undoubtedly, you know, thte te— think undoubtedly, you know, thte te am— think undoubtedly, you know, this is an issue— think undoubtedly, you know, this is an issue that does concern people. this is an issue that does. concern-people. iand this is an issue that does- concern-people. iand i this is an issue that does- concern-people.iand i think concern some people. and i think we've got to again , with we've got to again, with respect, say that the focus has got to be on making sure britain remains a tolerant, inclusive , remains a tolerant, inclusive, fair and equal society. but i

think there is also a pretty obvious role for common sense in this debate as well. and it shouldn't really be that difficult to define a man and a woman. and in fact, there are very clear legal definitions for what they are. so i don't want to see us getting tied up in knots about this , and i don't knots about this, and i don't want us to be seen to be banging a drum. that's so out of tune with where most people in the country are that people just think, well, hang on, what are you guys talking about? that's not my world. so let's keep our feet on the ground. but let's not pander to those who want to take us back to, uh, to a different social times and different social times and different social times and different social mores because we are a different country now. and there's got to be a place, a fair and decent place for everyone, their sexual everyone, whatever their sexual orientation or gender identity might be. let's have a final wort— might be. let's have a final woat om— might be. let's have a final word on pensions,- gn let's have a final word on pensions, because i know you word on pensions, because i know wow ttt— word on pensions, because i know wow ttt a— word on pensions, because i know vow ttt a tot— word on pensions, because i know vow ttt a tot ot— word on pensions, because i know you did a lot of work in this area when you— you did a lot of work in this area when you were in government. - area when you were in government. concern is perhaps that— government. concern is perhaps that-hottetee— government. concern is perhaps that-policies are- government. concern is perhaps that-policies are a- government. concern is perhaps that policies are a bit too that some policies are a bit too toeweeet— that some policies are a bit too toeweeet-ot- that some policies are a bit too focussed _of the - that some policies are a bit too focussed of the over focussed in favour of the over 65 focussed in favour of the over es eeomte — focussed in favour of the over 65 seconds. .you,- focussed in favour of the over 65 seconds. you, for instance 65 seconds. do you, for instance , thtmt— 65 seconds. do you, for instance

, thtmt-the— 65 seconds. do you, for instance , think -the triple- 65 seconds. do you, for instance , think the triple lock , think that the triple lock ehowtt— , think that the triple lock ehowtt-e- , think that the triple lock should-? first- , think that the triple lock should ? first of all? should remain? first of all? wett— should remain? first of all? wet twe— should remain? first of all? well i've said— should remain? first of all? well i've said previously i that— well i've said previously i that the— well i've said previously i think the triple lock is going to te— think the triple lock is going to he veto,— think the triple lock is going to he verya very— think the triple lock is going to be very, very hard to sustain amt— to be very, very hard to sustain amt ._ to be very, very hard to sustain amt . thtmt— to be very, very hard to sustain and i think we've— to be very, very hard to sustain and i think we've got to strike and i think we've got to strike atahea— and i think we've got to strike a fairer balance— and i think we've got to strike a fairer balance between making sure pensioners are well ewhhottet— sure pensioners are well ewhhottet h— sure pensioners are well supported in their old age heee— supported in their old age heee ot— supported in their old age because of course they've got very— because of course they've got very ttmttet— because of course they've got very limited opportunities to top up— very limited opportunities to top up theta— very limited opportunities to top up their pensions with any eamhet — top up their pensions with any eamheo hat— top up their pensions with any earnings. but we've- top up their pensions with any earnings. go earnings. but we've got to make sure that welfare state is fair to young families with children too. terrible thing too. and it's a terrible thing that at the moment young families with children are the ones who are facing rising levels poverty. this issue levels of poverty. so this issue about balance of spending about the balance of spending within welfare state has got within the welfare state has got to and we can't to be addressed. and we can't sit ignore the needs of sit back and ignore the needs of young . for children, young families. for children, it's see them it's terrible to see them struggling. do it's terrible to see them struggling . do you think we're struggling. do you think we're going— struggling. do you think we're ootmoleee— struggling. do you think we're going-seelsituation- going to see a situation where in, going to see a situation where thltom-t— going to see a situation where in,idon't know,— going to see a situation where in, don't know, ten, 20 years in, i don't know, ten, 20 years ttme— in, i don't know, ten, 20 years ttme etate— in, i don't know, ten, 20 years time state pension— in, i don't know, ten, 20 years time state pension might need to be time state pension might need to he-teetete— time state pension might need to he-teetete wo— time state pension might need to be-tested? no i- time state pension might need to be tested? no i don't be means tested? no i don't thtmt— be means tested? no i don't thtmt that-e— be means tested? no i don't think that's likely to be necessary. i- think that's likely to be necessary. c c think that's likely to be- necessary. i hope it isn't . you necessary. i hope it isn't. you know, people have contributed through all their working lives, those people who are paying national to state,

national insurance to a state, a decent state pension. and i don't think we can then rip up the rule book and say, sorry, we've changed your mind. you paid for this pension. we're not giving i don't think giving it to you. i don't think that's by the that's playing fair by the rules. lord hutton, thank you wow— rules. lord hutton, thank you wew-hteet— rules. lord hutton, thank you very-indeed.joiningl rules. lord hutton, thank you. very-indeed.joining me very much indeed forjoining me this very much indeed forjoining me thte momho— very much indeed forjoining me this morning. lovely to speak to wow.— this morning. lovely to speak to wow-weav— this morning. lovely to speak to you. very welcome. you. you're very welcome. thank you— you. you're very welcome. thank voume- thamt- you. you're very welcome. thank you-me. thank you. you for having me. thank you. now you for having me. thank you. wow—to- you for having me. thank you. now—to olivia- you for having me. thank you.| now—to olivia and now let's go back to olivia and ttmt— now let's go back to olivia and that out— now let's go back to olivia and find out what— now let's go back to olivia and find out what the— now let's go back to olivia and find out what the good people of south— find out what the good people of stowoh-mate— find out what the good people of slough-made of— find out what the good people of slough made of my interview slough have made of my interview so slough have made of my interview eo tat. — slough have made of my interview eo tat. ettwa— slough have made of my interview eo tat. ettwa — slough have made of my interview so far. olivia hello.— slough have made of my interview so far. olivia t/os so far. olivia hello. yes, we have been listening to those interviews intently and interviews very intently and certainly there are some pretty strong opinions here. i'm going to start strong opinions here. i'm going to etaat wtth— strong opinions here. i'm going to start with adeel— g i“ “o”o i'm going to start with adeel again. hteet— to start with adeel again. adeel,-were- to start with adeel again. adeel, were you were making adeel, you were you were making some interesting— adeel, you were you were making some interesting comments on on tahow-e— some interesting comments on on tahow-e htam— some interesting comments on on tahow-e htam toa— some interesting comments on on labour's plan for immigration whea— labour's plan for immigration when that— labour's plan for immigration when that was— labour's plan for immigration when that was raised with john hwttom— when that was raised with john hwttom theae. — when that was raised with john hutton there. do— when that was raised with john hutton there. do you think that that— hutton there. do you think that that tahow— hutton there. do you think that that labour have— hutton there. do you think that that labour have a grip on on the— that labour have a grip on on the immigration— that labour have a grip on on the immigration problem? what do you the immigration problem? what do wow that— the immigration problem? what do wow that t— the immigration problem? what do you think it would— the immigration problem? what do you think it would what do you that— you think it would what do you that ow— you think it would what do you think our immigration policy wowtt— think our immigration policy wowtt-hte— think our immigration policy. would-like-labour? would look like under labour? i that— would look like under labour? i think-labour— would look like under labour? i think-labour it- would look like under labour? i think labour it would be think under labour it would be unsustainable. _ think under labour it would be unsustainable. “oya too c ”oeccya unsustainable. they don't really have firm details on what their policy would be around immigration, but i believe from

their track record that they will just be allowing pretty much everyone in. that's not the way to go about it and they need to make their position clear pretty much allowing everyone in. there's a strong words there.— in. there's a strong words there. wee.— in. there's a strong words there. yes. and— i“ there's a strong words there. yes. and sharon, i heard i there. yes. and sharon, i heard . heart— there. yes. and sharon, i heard . heart a— there. yes. and sharon, i heard i heard a noise— there. yes. and sharon, i heard i heard a noise of— there. yes. and sharon, i heard i heard a noise of sympathy from you i heard a noise of sympathy from wow whea— i heard a noise of sympathy from you when camilla— i heard a noise of sympathy from you when camilla said that there are you when camilla said that there heohte— you when camilla said that there are people worried— you when camilla said that there are people worried on the tooaetehe— are people worried on the doorsteps about some of these ewttwat— doorsteps about some of these cultural issues— doorsteps about some of these cultural issues and that keir stame— cultural issues and that keir starmer doesn't— cultural issues and that keir starmer doesn't really seem to be starmer doesn't really seem to he attaeeeho— starmer doesn't really seem to be addressing them as a as a mother— be addressing them as a as a mother ,— be addressing them as a as a who, to— be addressing them as a as a mother , do you— be addressing them as a as a mother , do you think that keir mother, do you think that keir stame— mother, do you think that keir starmer will— mother, do you think that keir starmer will lose _ mother, do you think that keir starmer will lose women's votes if starmer will lose women's votes tt he— starmer will lose women's votes tt he toeem-t— starmer will lose women's votes if he doesn't address that trans teewe— if he doesn't address that trans e— if he doesn't address that trans erohm— if he doesn't address that trans issue ? john hutton seemed to issue? john hutton seemed to that— issue? john hutton seemed to that t— issue? john hutton seemed to think it wasn't— issue? john hutton seemed to think it wasn't a— issue? john hutton seemed to think it wasn't a problem, but what— think it wasn't a problem, but what to— think it wasn't a problem, but what to wow— think it wasn't a problem, but what do you think? well it's a ttaoetw. — what do you think? well it's a ttaoetv. vow— what do you think? well it's a tragedy. you can— what do you think? well it's a tragedy. /o oeo tragedy. you can see what happens if anybody says , i'm a happens if anybody says, i'm a woman and i should be proud of being a woman. and i don't see why that has to be so controversial and generally that the culture war issues the sort of culture war issues it feel at moment it does feel at the moment as though labour trying to kind though labour is trying to kind of on the fence. it wants of stay on the fence. it wants to its of stay on the fence. it wants to-tte wowmoea- to keep its younger metropolitan, dare i say, woke ote— metropolitan, dare i say, woke voters on board. _ metropolitan, dare i say, woke voters on board. but it also hmowe—

voters on board. but it also hmowe that— voters on board. but it also knows that it— voters on board. but it also knows that it needs to bring in the eoet— knows that it needs to bring in the eoat ot— knows that it needs to bring in the sort of slightly older women hom— the sort of slightly older women from more rural— the sort of slightly older women from more rural areas. do you that— from more rural areas. do you that that— from more rural areas. do you think that labour— from more rural areas. do you think that labour will be able to tet— think that labour will be able to get that— think that labour will be able to get that coalition to work for to get that coalition to work to t— to get that coalition to work to t h— to get that coalition to work to t h the— to get that coalition to work for it in the next— to get that coalition to work for it in the next election, or do for it in the next election, or to wow— for it in the next election, or to wow that— for it in the next election, or do you think it's— for it in the next election, or do you think it's going to have to ome— do you think it's going to have to come down— do you think it's going to have to come down on— do you think it's going to have to come down on one side or the other— to come down on one side or the other h— to come down on one side or the other h theee— to come down on one side or the other in these culture wars? i thought— other in these culture wars? i thought that— other in these culture wars? i thought that labour was not ahowt— thought that labour was not ahowt the— thought that labour was not about the metropolitan. i thought— about the metropolitan. i thought tt— about the metropolitan. i thought it was— about the metropolitan. i thought it was all- about the metropolitan. i thought it was all about working class , you know, and men who class, you know, and men who might work in industries like rails and things like that. so i think if that's where labour is going to position themselves, then , you know, from looking at then, you know, from looking at what happened at the last general election, i don't think they have chance. they will have much chance. thank you very much. and jack, i think i thank you very much. and jack, i that . heart— thank you very much. and jack, i think i heard you— thank you very much. and jack, i think i heard you say— thank you very much. and jack, i think i heard you say that- aog ino and jack,i think i heard you say that when camttta— think i heard you say that when camttta wae— think i heard you say that when camilla was interviewing david hawe— camilla was interviewing david have that— camilla was interviewing david have that he— camilla was interviewing david davis that he should prime davis that he should be prime tthtetea— davis that he should be prime minister definitely o ieti�* minister definitely he's the man who should have been the prime minister. mani should have been the heme— minister. mani should have been the prime minister.— ii i“ mani should have been the prime minister. well, that's i the prime minister. well, that's tthtmh— the prime minister. well, that's i think, probably— the prime minister. well, that's i think, probably the most ttattehmt— i think, probably the most flattering-i've. i think, probably the most- flattering-i've heard i think, probably the most- flattethe|-i've heard i think, probably the most flattethe people's i've heard i think, probably the most flattethe people's panel heard i think, probably the most flattethe people's panel about from the people's panel about it. from the people's panel about t. hotttteat— from the people's panel about it. political interviewee and he tatttmt— it. political interviewee and he was talking about— it. political interviewee and he was talking about how why he hehewee— was talking about how why he hehewee-tot— was talking about how why he believes-got-this. believes we've got into this

httattom— believes we've got into this inflation crisis. _ believes we've got into this inflation crisis-i- believes we've got into this inflation crisis. i think inflation crisis. and i think wow-ae— inflation crisis. and i think wowte-the- inflation crisis. and i think you're the same opinion. you're sort of the same opinion. there— you're sort of the same opinion. there-tatte— you're sort of the same opinion. there-owte a— you're sort of the same opinion. there-quite a lot- you're sort of the same opinion. there-quite a lot of- you're sort of the same opinion. there quite a lot of money there was quite a lot of money hhmtht—aml printing during lockdown, an ttea— printing during lockdown, an ttea-tht— printing during lockdown, an idea-kind of— printing during lockdown, an idea kind of high inflation idea that kind of high inflation wowtt— idea that kind of high inflation wowtt thet— idea that kind of high inflation wowtt twet he— idea that kind of high inflation would just be transitory . do you would just be transitory. do you that— would just be transitory. do you that that-e— would just be transitory. do you think that's the— would just be transitory. do you think that's the issue? it's i that— think that's the issue? it's i think inflation— think that's the issue? it's i think inflation is three things, aetwattw— think inflation is three things, aetwattw. — think inflation is three things, aetwattv. the— think inflation is three things, actually. the first- think inflation is three things, actually. �*" actually. the first one is quantitative easing. we printed too much money. the second thing is he just gave a load of money to people to sit at home for a long time. and feeling long time. and we're feeling that now because a lot of people don't even want go back to don't even want to go back to work they've got a lot work and they've got a lot of money. the third is money. and the third thing is just greed from the supermarket sits multinational sits and the multinational companies. yeah. do you companies. yeah yeah. do you think you companies. yeah yeah. do you think-you think— companies. yeah yeah. do you think-you think rishi- f“ you?“ you?“ do you think you think rishi sunak think do you think rishi sunak etamte— think do you think rishi sunak etamte-ot— think do you think rishi sunak stands of getting stands a chance of getting a grip— stands a chance of getting a grip-inflation?- stands a chance of getting a grip inflation? he grip on inflation? and if he toeeht— grip on inflation? and if he doesn't, would— grip on inflation? and if he doesn't, would would he lose doesn't, would he would he lose wow— doesn't, would he would he lose wow-he— doesn't, would he would he lose wow-he haem-t— doesn't, would he would he lose your- he hasn't got- doesn't, would he would he lose your he hasn't got my vote your vote? he hasn't got my vote amvwaw. — your vote? he hasn't got my vote amvwav. .hewet— your vote? he hasn't got my vote anyway. .never been- your vote? he hasn't got my vote anyway. .never been a- your vote? he hasn't got my vote anyway. i“ anyway. i've never been a tory. i would vote for david davis if he was the leader. the he was the leader. he's the natural, to be natural, natural person to be the. actually going to the. and i'm actually going to vote the next vote reform in the next election. we need a election. definitely we need a change. totally need a change. we totally need a change. we totally need a change. years this , a lack change. 13 years of this, a lack of . again, very stark of direction. again, very stark wote— of direction. again, very stark wote amt— of direction. again, very stark words. and how— of direction. again, very stark words. and how do— t: ”oon o“ again, very stark words. and how do you feel ? did

words. and how do you feel? did thoee— words. and how do you feel? did those interviews— words. and how do you feel? did those interviews change your mht— those interviews change your mtmt ahowt— those interviews change your mind about how— those interviews change your mind about how you'd be voting in mind about how you'd be voting h the— mind about how you'd be voting h the meat— mind about how you'd be voting in the next general election? or.— in the next general election? oh. ttt— in the next general election? oh. to great— in the next general election? oh, it's great to— in the next general election? oh, it's great to listen- in the next general election? oh, it's great to listen to- oh, it's great to listen to people like david davis. he speaks such a sensible, but those guys aren't in power. those aren't people who those aren't the people who are pulling and you pulling the levers and you wouldn't trust sunak with wouldn't trust rishi sunak with your vote. i'm very disappointed that— your vote. i'm very disappointed that rm— your vote. i'm very disappointed that t-m hawtho— your vote. i'm very disappointed that t-m havtmo eo— ” i'm very disappointed that i'm paying so much tax very tteahhotmttmo. — that i'm paying so much tax very disappointing. that's a that's a phrase that i've heard quite a few times on this people's panel. now, adeel, i'm not going to ask you, because i hope that as a conservative councillor, you at least will be voting tory in the next election. of course, without a doubt.— in the next election. of course, without a doubt. very- i“ “oxen " of course, without a doubt. very pleased. t-m — without a doubt. very pleased. i'm _conservative- without a doubt. very pleased. i'm _conservative partyl i'm sure the conservative party will very to will be very pleased to hear that. will be very pleased to hear that . thank will be very pleased to hear that. thank you very much. this is our brilliant people's panel in atlanta lounge. in slough at the atlanta lounge. then to you in the studio. then back to you in the studio. camilla, you very much camilla, thank you very much indeed for that. olivia. it was a heateet— indeed for that. olivia. it was a perfect people's— 3: olivia. it was a perfect people's panel from south.— a perfect people's panel from south—wowl slough. don't forget, if you want— slough. don't forget, if you want-the— slough. don't forget, if you want-the panel,- slough. don't forget, if you want the panel, you can want to join the panel, you can go want to join the panel, you can 90 to— want to join the panel, you can 90 to th— want to join the panel, you can 90 to he wewe— want to join the panel, you can go to gb news .com forward slash hamet—mext- go to gb news .com forward slash panel—next week's. panel and apply for next week's oatme— panel and apply for next week's owtho-tm— panel and apply for next week's outing. i'm delighted to outing. now, i'm delighted to say— outing. now, i'm delighted to eaw-thattw— outing. now, i'm delighted to say finally joined in the say i'm finally joined in the etwtto— say i'm finally joined in the etwtto hw— say i'm finally joined in the studio by john— say i'm finally joined in the studio by john cleese. we've teem— studio by john cleese. we've

been—interview. been tasting this interview with thaowthowt— been tasting this interview with throughout the— been tasting this interview with throughout the because you throughout the show because you are, throughout the show because you ate-watttem— throughout the show because you are,-written down - throughout the show because you are, written down here, throughout the show because you aicomedy written down here, throughout the show because you aicomedy legend.i down here, throughout the show because you aicomedy legend. down here, throughout the show because you aicomedy legend. do you �*1ere, throughout the show because you aicomedy legend. do you know a comedy legend. do you know what— a comedy legend. do you know what-toothe— a comedy legend. do you know what-looking you- a comedy legend. do you know what looking you up and i what i was looking you up and i ooho— what i was looking you up and i ootmo to— what i was looking you up and i was going to kill— what i was looking you up and i was going to kill you. i'm not a teoeht— was going to kill you. i'm not a legend anymore. i was promoted. i'm a national institution. are you are you a national treasure? friday? got certificate. friday? i've got a certificate. why aren't sir? because why aren't you a sir? because i ooht— why aren't you a sir? because i ootmo to— why aren't you a sir? because i was going to call— why aren't you a sir? because i was going to call you sir. john cteeee. — was going to call you sir. john cteeee. so— was going to call you sir. john cleese. so they— was going to call you sir. john cleese. c was going to call you sir. john cleese. i“ c : cleese. so they haven't asked me. that's why they should. i was if i wanted to be was asked if i wanted to be a peek was asked if i wanted to be a peer. a member of the house. that was paddy ashdown, whom i adored ran the lib dems adored and ran ran the lib dems for a time and i was very close with paddy. and at the end he wanted asked me if i wanted to be in the lords, but to vote. you know what i mean? to represent them. that meant you know what i mean? to represint them. that meant you know what i mean? to represin england that meant you know what i mean? to represin england in that meant you know what i mean? to represin england in the it meant you know what i mean? to represin england in the winter.t being in england in the winter. and afraid that's not, not and i'm afraid that's not, not on, know. so you've been on, you know. so you've been ehemttmt— on, you know. so you've been spending summers— so you've been spending summers abroad for many weare — spending summers abroad for many weare r— spending summers abroad for many weare r oar-t— spending summers abroad for many years. i can't stand— spending summers abroad for many years. i can't stand the— spending summers abroad for many years. oeo“ c years. i can't stand the winter and i get chest infections and feel i'll go off feel horrible. i'll go off to the . now, was intrigued in the sun. now, i was intrigued in the sun. now, i was intrigued in the week— the sun. now, i was intrigued in the week to— the sun. now, i was intrigued in the week to spot— the sun. now, i was intrigued in the week to spot you— i“ now, i was intrigued in the week to spot you at the high court— the week to spot you at the high court heee— the week to spot you at the high court because—sat. the week to spot you at the high court because sat in court because i think you sat in on court because i think you sat in court because i think you satin om ot— court because i think you satin om ot the— court because i think you sat in on one of the phone hacking trtate. — on one of the phone hacking trtate. tet— on one of the phone hacking trials. let me— on one of the phone hacking trials. let me ask— on one of the phone hacking trials. let me ask you, first of art.— trials. let me ask you, first of an, teee— trials. let me ask you, first of all, because i— trials. let me ask you, first of all, because i know you've been

all, because i know you've been a-erttte— all, because i know you've been a-erttte ot— all, because i know you've been a - critic of. british - a fierce critic of the british hreee — a fierce critic of the british hreee .what- a fierce critic of the british press. .whatiyou . a fierce critic of the british press. what you make a fierce critic of the british- press.-what.you make of press. yes. what do you make of the-h— press. yes. what do you make of the-h the— press. yes. what do you make of the in the newspapers the treatment in the newspapers of the treatment in the newspapers ot-sehottett— the treatment in the newspapers of-schofield and - the treatment in the newspapers of schofield and this of phillip schofield and this whote— of phillip schofield and this whote etorw— of phillip schofield and this whole story, having also whole story, having been also in tv whole story, having been also in tv tor— whole story, having been also in tv for decades? _ whole story, having been also in tv for decades? it— whole story, having been also in tv for decades? c tv for decades? it seems to me astonished, trivial? astonished, seemingly trivial? yes. quite yes. i mean, there are quite important on the important things going on in the world at the moment and to concentrate on this. but i always wonder, is it that the right wing press don't to right wing press don't want to have how awful the have to talk about how awful the government is? and so they're looking story. you looking for any other story. you say in the right wing press say that in the right wing press the leader column in sunday the leader column in the sunday telegraph absolute glee telegraph today is absolute glee so highly critical of sunak and hunfs so highly critical of sunak and hunt's approach. it's saying that he— hunt's approach. it's saying that it's about— c. f it's saying that it's about managed decline _the— that it's about managed decline hem—the hott- that it's about managed decline ism. the right wing ism. so doesn't the right wing hreee— ism. so doesn't the right wing hreee ateo— ism. so doesn't the right wing press also about— ism. so doesn't the right wing press also about managed decline ism press also about managed decline tem eawtmo— press also about managed decline tem eawtmo thet— press also about managed decline ism saying their economic hottetee— ism saying their economic hottetee are— ism saying their economic policies are wrong , that they're policies are wrong, that they're not policies are wrong, that they're mot weathe— policies are wrong, that they're not creating enough growth and ettmwtwe— not creating enough growth and stimulus, that— not creating enough growth and stimulus, that taxes are too. hot— stimulus, that taxes are too. hot hott— stimulus, that taxes are too. wet rtoht who— stimulus, that taxes are too. not right wing enough- stimulus, that taxes are too. not right wing enough because rishi has moved them slightly to the left. what do you think? that's a good or a bad thing? i think i'm definitely centre left. yes. i thought that left. yes. and i thought that liz truss's ideas for the economy were complete disaster, although they appeared to the extreme right wing of the

conservative party, which is how she got into power. but no , i she got into power. but no, i think we need a centrist government and one that is much more competent and not so corrupt because the one thing that bothers me about this government more than anything else degree corruption else is the degree of corruption in youth in relation to boris in my youth in relation to boris johnson or in relation to covid contracts or what do you mean? well, you name it, i think it's all very corrupt and paying off their cronies , you know, and their cronies, you know, and promoting to the house of lords people who are merely tory donors. i mean, there should be some merit attached to being in the house of lords. you know that you've done something important in government or in trade unions , but isn't that trade unions, but isn't that kind party problem? kind of an all party problem? tony blair was accused of eromtemw— tony blair was accused of cronyism,llot- tony blair was accused of cronyism, lot his tony blair was accused of- cronyism,llot-his honours cronyism, a lot with his honours het— cronyism, a lot with his honours het.|meah— cronyism, a lot with his honours list. mean, absolute power list. i mean, absolute power eorrwhte— list. i mean, absolute power corrupts absolutely. t/os ”o corrupts absolutely. yes, you're absolutely right. it does. and that's that's the problem that's what that's the problem of the press. they've been so powerful for so long that they sort of that the rules sort of felt that the rules didn't apply to them. i went didn't apply to them. so i went along because i wanted hear

along because i wanted to hear what going in that what was going on in that particular and i saw particular case. and i saw a very clever barrister called sherborne completely demolish the daily mail guy who was in charge of finance , although some charge of finance, although some of the late entries, some of the witnesses that hugh grant and indeed prince harry wanted to call to some of the other trials have not been allowed. i mean, do you have two of— o i mean, do you have two of those? ' t: do you have two of those? and thew— do you have two of those? and thew were— do you have two of those? and thew rew— do you have two of those? and they were very late— do you have two of those? and they were very late and they were not allowed the grounds were not allowed on the grounds that take the take the that it would take the take the trial too long. and the judge was trying to keep the schedule. yes don't need those yes but they don't need those anyway. were just extras. anyway. they were just extras. they've plenty the mirror they've got plenty on the mirror and going to, think, and they're going to, i think, destroy is at destroy the mirror, which is at the level a thing. then the top level a good thing. then i they replace them with i hope they replace them with good . you talked about good people. you talked about the—hreee— good people. you talked about the—hreee hat- the right wing press, but ohwowetw— the right wing press, but obviously the— the right wing press, but obviously the mirror is very tett— obviously the mirror is very tett-eo— obviously the mirror is very left-so you're- obviously the mirror is very left so you're saying you left wing. so you're saying you tattet— left wing. so you're saying you tattet-rttht- left wing. so you're saying you talked-right wing. talked about the right wing hreee— talked about the right wing press,-mirror- press, but the mirror is ohwowetw— press, but the mirror is obviously left press, but the mirror is obviously-left so you obviously very left wing. so you that— obviously very left wing. so you that that— obviously very left wing. so you think that they're _ obviously very left wing. so you think that they're also ewthahtee— think that they're also culpable? well, the standard of the culpable? well, the standard of i..._,_ culpable? well, the standard of the-, wow— culpable? well, the standard of the-, wow eee- culpable? well, the standard of the-, you see, i'm- culpable? well, the standard of the , you see, i'm old, the morality, you see, i'm old, you— the morality, you see, i'm old, wow hmow— the morality, you see, i'm old, wow tmow rm— the morality, you see, i'm old, you know, i'm 83. - the morality, you see, i'm old, you know, i'm 83. ' t: ”o you know, i'm 83. and i remember what the press was like when i first became well known in 66.

they were a decent bunch. if they made a mistake, they were slightly embarrassed about it. now they don't give a. they really don't. do you sympathise wtth— really don't. do you sympathise wtth harrw— really don't. do you sympathise wtth harrw amt— ”rootccya too“ c do you sympathise with harry and meghan then? i have.— with harry and meghan then? i have. t— with harry and meghan then? i have. t to— with harry and meghan then? i have. i do have— with harry and meghan then? i have. i do have sympathy- with harry and meghan then? have. i do have sympathy for them, yes . if have. i do have sympathy for them, yes. if i had to choose who to have dinner with out of the royal family or royal family, i would choose them. yes. i wouldn't choose princess anne. oh, yes . yes. i wouldn't choose princess anne. oh, yes. she's great. yeah. sorry i forgot that. no, no. yeah, i've met her a couple of times on celebrity knockout. i think it was. but in harry and wetham-e— i think it was. but in harry and rteoham-e aee— i think it was. but in harry and meghan's case, you'll- c but in harry and meghan's case, you'll be tamtttar— meghan's case, you'll be familiar as— meghan's case, you'll be familiar as a— meghan's case, you'll be familiar as a comedian with the south— familiar as a comedian with the south hart— familiar as a comedian with the south park kind— familiar as a comedian with the south park kind of— familiar as a comedian with the south park kind of parody of the— south park kind of parody of thte eowhte— south park kind of parody of this couple who— south park kind of parody of this couple who are trying to be tamowetw— this couple who are trying to be famously private.— this couple who are trying to be famously private. that's oxymoronic,_ famously private. that's oxymoronic, isn't ? they're oxymoronic, isn't? they're ehaeht— oxymoronic, isn't? they're chasing fame— oxymoronic, isn't? they're chasing fame while at the same ttme— chasing fame while at the same ttme eawtmo— chasing fame while at the same time saying, please don't look ativeah— time saying, please don't look ativeahlthe— time saying, please don't look at yeah f g at us. yeah the fascinating thing about it is that exhibitionists are always given a lot of media time. i mean, dear old michael, winner is a great friend of mine. he just loved being in the media. and what was so funny is they said, yes, yes , you are an

yes, yes, you are an exhibitionist. come along and we'll you lots of coverage. we'll give you lots of coverage. i think the answer is don't cover exit alicia kearns. but how can we avoid o c o but how can we avoid covering exhibitionists— how can we avoid covering exhibitionists if, for instance, the — exhibitionists if, for instance, whee—a- exhibitionists if, for instance, prince—a tell- exhibitionists if, for instance, prince—a tell allj prince harry writes a tell all tome— prince harry writes a tell all tome ahowt— prince harry writes a tell all tome about his— prince harry writes a tell all tome about his nearest and teareete— tome about his nearest and dearest? oh,— tome about his nearest and dearest? oh, i— tome about his nearest and dearest? oh, i c— tome about his nearest and dearest? oh, i c creates loads. vow— dearest? oh, i c creates loads. how two— dearest? oh, i c creates loads. you have two— dearest? oh, i c creates loads. you have two lines,— dearest? oh, i c creates loads. you have two lines, but- dearest? oh, i c creates loads. you have two lines, but you don't have to be obsessed with them this weekend. they're them just this weekend. they're obsessed schofield obsessed with phillip schofield and i saw somebody saying just now that they've accused of now that they've been accused of males have been accused of not handung males have been accused of not handling something properly and they were cleared by ipso, which is supposed to be the regulatory body is in fact financed body which is in fact financed by the press . oh, isn't that by the press. oh, isn't that nice? the press are controlled by the. well, the ipp will say, let me just say this in in 2021, 971 cases were referred to ipso complaints about the press. yes camilla, guess how many they upheld. you tell me . six. okay. upheld. you tell me. six. okay. okay but then six out of 600. so wett— okay but then six out of 600. so we-tt eaw— okay but then six out of 600. so we-tt eaw .— okay but then six out of 600. so we-tt eaw . johna— okay but then six out of 600. so we'll say , john, that— jcij

the hotter— organisation. you could also say the bigger problem are you reading?— the bigger problem are you reading? to— the bigger problem are you reading? no, i'm not reading that.— reading? no, i'm not reading that. rm— reading? no, i'm not reading that. m thet— reading? no, i'm not reading that. i'm just saying it as a rowmattet— that. i'm just saying it as a journalist who— that. i'm just saying it as a journalist who is- that. i'm just saying it as a journalist who is aware of the cote— journalist who is aware of the eote ot— journalist who is aware of the code of conduct. _ journalist who is aware of the code of conduct. and second of au— code of conduct. and second of ath-eowtt— code of conduct. and second of ath-eowtt eaw— code of conduct. and second of all, could say actually, all, you could say actually, eomhwet— all, you could say actually,- eomharet—hreee compared to the regulated press, it's compared to the regulated press, tt-e—eomttmweel it's social media that continues to—tmhwmttw- it's social media that continues to_impunity that. it's social media that continuesi to_impunity that is to publish with impunity that is the hotter— to publish with impunity that is the bigger problem here, john. i that— the bigger problem here, john. i thtmt-htt— the bigger problem here, john. i think big problem. think that is a big problem. art— think that is a big problem. art r— think that is a big problem. art r ttmt— think that is a big problem. and i think the— think that is a big problem. and i think the trouble- think that is a big problem. and i think the trouble is that the question is how do you improve the situation? john? and what i don't understand and is why people who post things can't be identified. yes. why are they keyboard warriors? anon famously ehewht — keyboard warriors? anon famously ehewtmt owt— keyboard warriors? anon famously ehewtmo owt mwet— keyboard warriors? anon famously spewing out must be— : , anon famously spewing out must be very easy to hmow— spewing out must be very easy to know who— spewing out must be very easy to know who thew— spewing out must be very easy to know who they are. yos ' t: �*" know who they are. yes. and if thew— know who they are. yes. and if they were there and were responsible for what they said, they wouldn't be so nasty for a start because people are only nasty when they are really nasty. where they can do it privately without being found out. now you've said that you're tett— out. now you've said that you're tett teamwo— out. now you've said that you're left leaning. why— now you've said that you're left leaning. why news then left leaning. why gb news then and left leaning. why gb news then amt-are— left leaning. why gb news then amt-are wow— left leaning. why gb news then and-are you going- left leaning. why gb news then and are you going to be and what are you going to be torme— and what are you going to be toht tor— and what are you going to be doing for channel? �*jaittocc doing for this channel? well, all doing for this channel? well, at r— doing for this channel? well, at r the— doing for this channel? well, all i like about— doing for this channel? well, all i like about this place is that it all i like about this place is thatitis all i like about this place is that it is free speech. yes. now the one, piers morgan's the other one, piers morgan's one. it called? we don't

one. what's it called? we don't talk about that. but that's talk about that. no, but that's channel rival . i can't talk about that. no, but that's channel rival. i can't remember the but that is the name of it, but that is that's so it's obviously that's murder. so it's obviously going to be right wing. that's murder. so it's obviously going to be right wing . you going to be right wing. you know, mean, when the papers know, i mean, when the papers when the mail sorry, when the times was covering the thing in the high court last week, you know, if you read the headline, they actually said that they'd thrown hugh grant's case out . a thrown hugh grant's case out. a complete lie. yeah. complete. and utter lie. if you want the bbc, they said no, the case is going ahead. yes so what i'm worried about is the fact that there's all this lying because newspapers now aren't newspapers. they're propaganda sheets. we know exactly how they're going to recommend us to vote at the general election. and i don't think that's a very healthy situation because you can't have a proper democracy if there isn't good clear , clear there isn't good clear, clear information out there that you can rely on. and there isn't. there okay. and what kind of hroorame— there okay. and what kind of hroorame are— there okay. and what kind of programs are you— ”o okay. and what kind of programs are you going to be mathe— programs are you going to be mattmt tor— programs are you going to be making for gb— programs are you going to be making for gb news john, i'm going— making for gb news john, i'm ootmo to— making for gb news john, i'm ootmo to mate— making for gb news john, i'm ootmo to mate a— making for gb news john, i'm going to make a slightly odd trott—

going to make a slightly odd one. right. good.- going to make a slightly odd one. ?gn o: ”ya going to make a slightly odd one. j gn o: going to make a slightly odd one. jgn o: one. right. good. try to break some of the moulds that are around. and i'm going to talk about that i'm interested about things that i'm interested to people who i think really know about them. okay? and it's been very interesting . for been very interesting. for example , i i've been interviewed example, i i've been interviewed doing people like tim rice . yes. doing people like tim rice. yes. and we talked to him about creative motty and how he worked with lloyd webber and with elton john. that's one side of it. and then we're also doing dealing have a programme on woke with people who've written good books about it, who really understand what it's about. do you do you worry about cancel culture? i mean, i know that some of your wort— mean, i know that some of your wort-teem— mean, i know that some of your own work been revisits. did own work has been revisits. did heohte— own work has been revisits. did heawe-wett— own work has been revisits. did people-well, could- own work has been revisits. did people well, could 40 people saying, well, could 40 towee— people saying, well, could 40 towee he— people saying, well, could 40 towers be made— people saying, well, could 40 towers be made today ? i know towers be made today? i know wowte— towers be made today? i know wowte-to— towers be made today? i know wowte-to tatt— towers be made today? i know you're-to talk-me- towers be made today? i know you're to talk me about you're going to talk to me about the-ot— you're going to talk to me about the-or that— you're going to talk to me about the-of that show. - you're going to talk to me about the of that show. there's the revamp of that show. there's heem— the revamp of that show. there's heemletorw— the revamp of that show. there's heemletorw h— the revamp of that show. there's been lstory in the _ the revamp of that show. there's been story in the telegraph been a story in the telegraph ahowt— been a story in the telegraph ahowt-ot— been a story in the telegraph about-of brian.- been a story in the telegraph about of brian. should about the life of brian. should the about the life of brian. shouldj the—hath about the life of brian. should. the—hath te the scene where michael palin is tatttmt— the scene where michael palin is talking-wanting- the scene where michael palin is talking-wanting to- the scene where michael palin is talking wanting to be talking about wanting to be oattet— called. well, that was unfortunately , that was unfortunately, that was misreported. i“ unfortunately, that was- misreported. i was in guildford. and what i said to them is that

when we had a very successful read through of the script in new york, the actors who were people tonys and been people who'd won tonys and been tony nominated, they tony nominated, so they experienced proper, proper actors. they all said to me at the end of the script, which i'm doing for the stage next year, they all said it's really funny. and then they said, but you can't do this stuff about lord retta. and i said, people have been laughing about it for what is it, 44 years? yes you mean they're not going to come to the theatre because they don't want to laugh at it anymore? it's a bit crazy, you know. but the people are very frightened of the illness that can the nasty illness that can occur. if you look the way that jk rowling has been treated, it's and it's very it's appalling. and it's very strange that on woke is a is a is a very complex thing, an aspect of it, a very, very good and helpful . and then there's and helpful. and then there's the other end of it, which is just plain silly. like we what was that thing the other day, oxfam issued a pamphlet . it oxfam issued a pamphlet. it advised their employees how to

speak to people. and one of the things was if you support someone, don't say you stand with them because that might upset people who are unable to stand. i know that's getting into arade dam end of it is rubbish and the trans activists who preach being kind are in fact very nasty . are you worried fact very nasty. are you worried ahowt— fact very nasty. are you worried about censorship _ fact very nasty. are you worried about censorship in— �*eto aog are you worried about censorship in comedy? i hmow— about censorship in comedy? i know ricky— about censorship in comedy? i know ricky gervais and others have— know ricky gervais and others have eart— know ricky gervais and others have eatt a— know ricky gervais and others have said a lot— know ricky gervais and others have said a lot about this, that you— have said a lot about this, that wow tam-t— have said a lot about this, that wow eam-t tett— have said a lot about this, that you can't tell certain jokes. twe— you can't tell certain jokes. have we— you can't tell certain jokes. have we got— you can't tell certain jokes. have we got the- you can't tell certain jokes. have we got the right to be ottemtet— have we got the right to be offended but— have we got the right to be offended but just allow people to eaw— offended but just allow people to eaw-thew— offended but just allow people to say-they want?- offended but just allow people to say they want? yes, to say what they want? yes, heee— to say what they want? yes, because actually- to say what they want? yes, because actually it's a subjective _ because actually it's a subjective feeling. �*thtocc eta: subjective feeling. well, and ateo.— subjective feeling. well, and also, people can argue and discuss. i mean, the way a liberal democracy is supposed to work is if there's an issue we're supposed to debate it and discuss it and talk about it. and it pleased god. there's some sort of consensus at the end which the government can then act on. that's how a liberal democracy works. what i don't like the woke fraternity like about the woke fraternity is they refuse to discuss things. they won't come on my show. asked a of them

show. we've asked a lot of them and they won't come on their show. my and i'm told it's show. my show. and i'm told it's because if they debate with because if they debate it with you, it might suggest that something side that's something on your side that's worth listening to and they don't want to don't want to deal with it. final about with it. final question about tawttw— with it. final question about fawlty towers. _ c final question about fawlty towers. going with it. final question about. fawlty towers-going to fawlty towers. are you going to have — fawlty towers. are you going to have lhe — fawlty towers. are you going to have i be careful— fawlty towers. are you going to have be careful how you do have to be careful how you do rehoot— have to be careful how you do rehoot rte— have to be careful how you do reboot it? because— have to be careful how you do reboot it? because people have ewooeetet— reboot it? because people have ewooeetet that— reboot it? because people have suggested that manuel's character,— suggested that manuel's character, instance , might character, for instance, might be character, for instance, might he-some- character, for instance, might he-some ot- character, for instance, might be-some of the. character, for instance, might. be-some of the things be offensive. some of the things , ot— be offensive. some of the things , ot the— be offensive. some of the things , some of the things that the major— , some of the things that the major hae— , some of the things that the major has said— , some of the things that the major has said in— , some of the things that the major has said in the past in the— major has said in the past in the taet— major has said in the past in the last series.— major has said in the past in the last series. and what's wow. — the last series. and what's wow. -amewer- the last series. and what's your. _answer is,| the last series. and what's. your.-answer is, is your. well, the answer is, is going— your. well, the answer is, is ootmo to— your. well, the answer is, is going to different your. well, the answer is, is. going to-different . going to be hugely different. art— going to be hugely different. art-tawttw— going to be hugely different. and-daughter, who's- going to be hugely different. and my daughter, who's called camilla, great name, and i have been on it for about been working on it for about a week. and all we know is it certainly won't set in the week. and all we know is it certéright?on't set in the week. and all we know is it certe' right? probablyet in the week. and all we know is it certe' right? probably seti the u.k, right? probably set somewhere in the sun , not in somewhere in the sun, not in a big city, but somewhere out in the sun with a lot of open air stuff which you never get in fawlty towers. but we've only just started to think about it because i've i'm working on the stage version of life of brian . stage version of life of brian. yes. we're working on a musical of a fish called wanda and the

other camilla and i have written a very good comedy about hollywood stereotypes . great. hollywood stereotypes. great. i mean, lookalikes . yes, mean, lookalikes. yes, lookalikes. and they're going to be played by the originals. so arnold schwarzenegger will play his own lookalike. yes. nice. so there's plenty going on. and i haven't even thought much about the american version. and it's fawlty towers now. a blessing or a r— fawlty towers now. a blessing or a blessing or a curse? i mean, everyone will atwawe— a curse? i mean, everyone will always associate _ a curse? i mean, everyone will always associate with basil always associate you with basil amt— always associate you with basil amt att— always associate you with basil amt att ot— always associate you with basil and all of the— always associate you with basil and all of the joy— always associate you with basil and all of the joy that that series brings.— and all of the joy that that series brings. it's one of my hereomat— series brings. it's one of my personal favourites . is that personal favourites. is that herme— personal favourites. is that hetmtltht— personal favourites. is that being kind albatross around being a kind of albatross around wow— being a kind of albatross around wow-te— being a kind of albatross around wow-he rte— being a kind of albatross around wow-he ho ho- being a kind of albatross around your-is it? no, i- being a kind of albatross around your is it? no, i mean your neck or is it? no, i mean eomethho— your neck or is it? no, i mean eomethtmo wote— your neck or is it? no, i mean something you're still very hrowt. — something you're still very hrowt. _th- something you're still very proud. _to make- something you're still very proud. _to make it. something you're still very proud. c proud. tried to make it an albatross. i mean, some of the press was so negative at the idea. i think. press was so negative at the idea. ithink. i press was so negative at the idea. i think. i don't remember. press was so negative at the iithink think. i don't remember. press was so negative at the iithink itink. i don't remember. press was so negative at the iithink it wasi don't remember. press was so negative at the iithink it was then't remember. press was so negative at the iithink it was the guardianiber. press was so negative at the iithink it was the guardian said i think it was the guardian said it's be awful, which is it's going to be awful, which is a new form of criticism, which is a critic criticising something you have the something before you have the slightest idea what it is. yes but then you had a less is more approach to it, right? you kept it to down those— approach to it, right? you kept it to down those few- o c ”gn7 you kept it to down those few episodes? hheotwtetw— it to down those few episodes? theotwtetw — it to down those few episodes? absolutely and _ it to down those few episodes? absolutely t: it to down those few episodes? absolutely ' t: i“ c go g absolutely and then it's going to very, very different to be very, very different because it's in the

because if it's in the caribbean, it'll a caribbean, it'll be a multicolour , which will be multicolour cast, which will be very interesting. and my camilla will be playing the woman who's running the hotel at the time. brilliant. so there will be nothing visually or in terms of characters that anyone's ever seen before. it'll be a brand new attempt . now, if you're new attempt. now, if you're going to say it won't be as good as the original, i know that's no reason to surpass the original. idon't no reason to surpass the original. i don't know. but that-e— original. i don't know. but that-e hart.— original. i don't know. but that's hard. it's— og i don't know. but that's hard. it's maybe hard to ewaeeh— that's hard. it's maybe hard to ewaeeh the— that's hard. it's maybe hard to surpass the quality of the ortohat— surpass the quality of the original because it's such a twowtte— original because it's such a favourite of— original because it's such a favourite of so— original because it's such a favourite of so many people in hrttatm. — favourite of so many people in britain. well,— favourite of so many people in britain. well, that's- favourite of so many people in britain. �*thtocc ”gn favourite of so many people in britain. ” gn britain. well, that's right, but it's no attempt to copy it. you see, it's something completely different and i think be different and i think it'll be quite funny, probably funnier than stuff out than some of the stuff out there. so the that he won't there. so the fact that he won't be as fawlty towers be as good as fawlty towers doesn't bother me because if we were operating on that principle, have done principle, i should have done fawlty and then retired. fawlty towers and then retired. yes, exactly . and you went on to yes, exactly. and you went on to much — yes, exactly. and you went on to much water— yes, exactly. and you went on to much htooer amt— tj/os �*fifikltfifncg and you went on to much bigger and greater things. rohh— much bigger and greater things. johna-90i"9_ much bigger and greater things. rohh-toht to- much bigger and greater things. john, going to have to john, are we going to have to heawe— john, are we going to have to tewelthere— john, are we going to have to leavelthere just— john, are we going to have to leave there just for time leave it there just for time reasons? idon't- leave it there just for time reasons? too c leave it there just for time- reasons? idon't want to leave reasons? i don't want to leave it i'm chatting. it there. i know i'm chatting. well, don't we just on?

well, why don't we just go on? no, let's have another chat. twe— no, let's have another chat. rte-tot— no, let's have another chat. toe-tot to- no, let's have another chat. toe-tot to 90- i no, let's have another chat. i've got to go. hot no, let's have another chat.- i've-got to go. no, you i've got i've got to go. no, you tor-t.— i've got i've got to go. no, you tor-t. vow— i've got i've got to go. no, you don't. you don't. on talking, camilla. tell you what. camilla. i'll tell you what. one more thing was going to one more thing i was going to aet— one more thing i was going to aet wow— one more thing i was going to aet wow whea— one more thing i was going to ask you when .you - one more thing i was going to ask you when you when ask you when do you start? when do ask you when do you start? when to-eam— ask you when do you start? when to-eam we— ask you when do you start? when do-can we watch- ask you when do you start? when do can we watch you on gb do when can we watch you on gb wewee— do when can we watch you on gb wewee ho— do when can we watch you on gb wewee ho wow— do when can we watch you on gb news? do you have— do when can we watch you on gb news? do you have a date? “oya news? do you have a date? they hawee-t— news? do you have a date? they hawee-t mate— news? do you have a date? they haven't made their mind. haven't made up their mind. right? because, well, you know what it's like. they've idea what it's like. they've no idea what it's like. they've no idea what doing. tv people. what they're doing. tv people. sehtemher— what they're doing. tv people. september-i'm- what they're doing. tv people. l september-i'm-in september is what i'm getting in my september is what i'm getting in mw—werw— september is what i'm getting in mw—werw mweh- september is what i'm getting in my_very much look| my ear. john we very much look torwart— my ear. john we very much look torwart to— my ear. john we very much look torwart to ht.— my ear. john we very much look forward to it. thank— my ear. john we very much look forward to it. thank you very much— forward to it. thank you very much tor— forward to it. thank you very much for joining. _ forward to it. thank you very much forjoining. censored. much for joining. censored. towetw— much for joining. censored. towetw to— much for joining. censored. lovely to see _ much for joining. censored. lovely to see give much for joining. censored. lovely to see .give love lovely to see you. give my love to-camttta.— lovely to see you. give my love to-camilla. free- to the other camilla. free eheeeh. — to the other camilla. free speech. - speech. - to the other camilla. free speech. - speech. what speech. free speech. that's what wemow-— speech. free speech. that's what we-now-_nextl speech. free speech. that's what wemowme-—t tei we need now. coming up next is the the— we need now. coming up next is the drive towards— we need now. coming up next is the drive towards net zero mathe— the drive towards net zero mattmt we— the drive towards net zero making us poorer. the drive towards net zero making us.poorer. next

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. now we've overrun a little bit with john cleese because it was so exciting having the i'm having him in the studio. i'm sorry. michael just sorry. michael portillo we just got to go through show sorry. michael portillo we just got to quickly.igh show sorry. michael portillo we just got to quickly. ati show sorry. michael portillo we just got to quickly. at 11, show sorry. michael portillo we just got to quickly. at 11, but;how really quickly. at 11, but you've great things you've got some great things coming up. the first thing i want— coming up. the first thing i want to— coming up. the first thing i want to-te— coming up. the first thing i want to-is it— coming up. the first thing i want to-is it was- ooi g c. the first thing i want to is it was great to want to say is it was great to hear— want to say is it was great to hear rohm— want to say is it was great to hear john cleese— want to say is it was great to hear john cleese say that he was rotmho— hear john cleese say that he was rotmtmo eh— hear john cleese say that he was rotmtmo oh wewe— hear john cleese say that he was joining gb news because it's the chammet— joining gb news because it's the chammet ot— joining gb news because it's the channel of free— joining gb news because it's the channel of free speech. i thought— channel of free speech. i thought-was- channel of free speech. i thought was really thought that was really fascinating.— thought that was really fascinating. why thought that was really- fascinating.-why we're fascinating. that's why we're here.— fascinating. that's why we're here-to- fascinating. that's why we're here-to he- here. i'm going to be interviewing- here. i'm going to be interviewing secret here. i'm going to be— interviewing-secret daughter interviewing the secret daughter of interviewing the secret daughter ot-armetromo. — interviewing the secret daughter of armstrong. going of louis armstrong. she's going to—trom - of louis armstrong. she's going to_from florida.| to be on the line from florida. she-e— to be on the line from florida. she-e-ewhteet— to be on the line from florida. she's-subject of- to be on the line from florida. she's subject of an emmy she's the subject of an emmy momhatet— she's the subject of an emmy nominated documentary. we're going— nominated documentary. we're ootmo-tattho— nominated documentary. we're going talking about going to be talking about eddie heart-e— going to be talking about eddie izzard's expectations izzard's new great expectations in izzard's new great expectations h whteh— izzard's new great expectations h whteh ehe— izzard's new great expectations in which she as— izzard's new great expectations in which she as she now likes to be in which she as she now likes to he oattet— in which she as she now likes to he eattet. htawe— in which she as she now likes to be called, plays 19— in which she as she now likes to be called, plays 19 roles in an amaztmt— be called, plays 19 roles in an amazing ehte— be called, plays 19 roles in an amazing epic monologue. honestly and amazing epic monologue. honestly amt wete— amazing epic monologue. honestly amt torme— amazing epic monologue. honestly tmt ootmo to— amazing epic monologue. honestly and we're going to be talking ahowt— and we're going to be talking ahowt the— and we're going to be talking about the new— and we're going to be talking about the new hang tape britain. is about the new hang tape britain. re the— about the new hang tape britain. is this another— about the new hang tape britain. is this another example of

woterwe— is this another example of wokery? amt— is this another example of wokery? and i'm going to be twtmhatht— wokery? and i'm going to be fulminating against a bit of a moetattta— fulminating against a bit of a moetatota tor— fulminating against a bit of a nostalgia for the— fulminating against a bit of a nostalgia for the ted heath tawe— nostalgia for the ted heath daysa whteh— nostalgia for the ted heath daysa whteh r— nostalgia for the ted heath days, which i remember. can you hettewe— days, which i remember. can you hettewe that— days, which i remember. can you believe that a— days, which i remember. can you believe that a tory— days, which i remember. can you believe that a tory government is once more thinking that it eowtt— is once more thinking that it could control— is once more thinking that it could control inflation action by treeztmt— could control inflation action by freezing prices in supermarkets? it's astonishing that— supermarkets? it's astonishing that r— supermarkets? it's astonishing that i remember— supermarkets? it's astonishing that i remember enoch powell weet— that i remember enoch powell weet to— that i remember enoch powell weet to eaw— that i remember enoch powell used to say it's— that i remember enoch powell used to say it's like believing that— used to say it's like believing that wow— used to say it's like believing that wow am— used to say it's like believing that you can stop— used to say it's like believing that you can stop rain by having an that you can stop rain by having am wmhretta— that you can stop rain by having an umbrella perfectly true. what— an umbrella perfectly true. what a— an umbrella perfectly true. what a treat— an umbrella perfectly true. what a great show- an umbrella perfectly true. what a great show you've got at 11. thank you very much. michael portillo . we look forward to portillo. we look forward to that. now i'm joined my other that. now i'm joined by my other guests ros clarke guests in the studio, ros clarke , is the author of a great , who is the author of a great new book, not at zero. ros. lovely to see you today. let me just read out the catch line of this book. not zero how an irrational target will impoverish you china and impoverish you help china and won't even save the planet . won't even save the planet. explain. please write . well, explain. please write. well, first of all, i think- explain. please write. well, first of all, i think if- i“ well, first of all, i think if you're going— first of all, i think if you're ootmo to— first of all, i think if you're ootmo to ome— first of all, i think if you're going to come up with a target to to— going to come up with a target to to amwthtmo— going to come up with a target to do anything reach net zero by any to do anything reach net zero by amw harttewtw— to do anything reach net zero by any particular date— to do anything reach net zero by any particular date or indeed any— any particular date or indeed amw thtmo— any particular date or indeed any thing, first— any particular date or indeed any thing, first you've got to have— any thing, first you've got to have am— any thing, first you've got to have an idea— any thing, first you've got to have an idea how you're going have an idea of how you're going to aehtewe— have an idea of how you're going to aehtewe ht.— have an idea of how you're going to achieve it. and— to achieve it. and the government- to achieve it. and the government had such idea to achieve it. and the— government had-such idea when government had no such idea when it

government had no such idea when tt-thte— government had no such idea when tt-thte thtmt— government had no such idea when it-this thing through- it pushed this thing through the howee— it pushed this thing through thel house of commons without even a vote— house of commons without even a votel2019- — house of commons without even a vote .2019. people _ house of commons without even a vote 2019. people didn't even vote in 2019. people didn't even agree— vote in 2019. people didn't even awee what— vote in 2019. people didn't even aoree what met— vote in 2019. people didn't even agree what net zero was. let aotme— agree what net zero was. let aotme wow — agree what net zero was. let alone, you know,— agree what net zero was. let alone, you know, have the teehmotoow— alone, you know, have the technology available to achieve it. technology available to achieve tt. amt,— technology available to achieve tt. amt, wow— technology available to achieve it. and, you know,— technology available to achieve it. and, you know, the more we go it. and, you know, the more we 90 oh— it. and, you know, the more we 90 the— it. and, you know, the more we 90 the moe— it. and, you know, the more we go on, the more we— it. and, you know, the more we go on, the more we realise that there— go on, the more we realise that there he— go on, the more we realise that there is enormous— go on, the more we realise that there is enormous cost attached to the. — there is enormous cost attached to the. r— there is enormous cost attached to this. i mean,— there is enormous cost attached to this. i mean, when mps sort of to this. i mean, when mps sort ot mottet— to this. i mean, when mps sort of nodded this— to this. i mean, when mps sort of nodded this through the commone— of nodded this through the commons in— of nodded this through the commons in 2019, they were retwho— commons in 2019, they were retwtmo om— commons in 2019, they were retwtmo om am— commons in 2019, they were relying on an estimate by the commtttee— relying on an estimate by the committee on— relying on an estimate by the committee on climate change that it committee on climate change that t wowtt— committee on climate change that t wowtt eoet— committee on climate change that it would cost £1— committee on climate change that it would cost £1 trillion is eomhtetetw— it would cost £1 trillion is completely plucked out of the sky completely plucked out of the etw whea— completely plucked out of the etw when the— completely plucked out of the sky when the treasury, two years tater— sky when the treasury, two years tater ame— sky when the treasury, two years tater to— sky when the treasury, two years later came to try— sky when the treasury, two years later came to try to— sky when the treasury, two years later came to try to make its own estimate— later came to try to make its own estimate of— later came to try to make its own estimate of what it would eoet— own estimate of what it would eoet .— own estimate of what it would eoet , tt— own estimate of what it would cost , it refused— own estimate of what it would cost , it refused to— own estimate of what it would cost , it refused to do so. so we cost, it refused to do so. so we tam-t— cost, it refused to do so. so we cant to— cost, it refused to do so. so we cant to ht.— cost, it refused to do so. so we can't do it. there's— cost, it refused to do so. so we can't do it. there's too many unknowns , too— can't do it. there's too many unknowns , too many technologies unknowns, too many technologies whteh— unknowns, too many technologies whteh hwem-t— unknowns, too many technologies which haven't been— unknowns, too many technologies which haven't been developed, haven-t— which haven't been developed, hawem-t heem— which haven't been developed, haven't been perfected yet, and we ewmot hat— haven't been perfected yet, and we cannot put a— haven't been perfected yet, and we cannot put a price on this. amt— we cannot put a price on this. amt eo— we cannot put a price on this. amt eo tt-e— we cannot put a price on this. and so it's going— we cannot put a price on this. and so it's going to impoverish. how— and so it's going to impoverish. how he— and so it's going to impoverish. how he tt— and so it's going to impoverish. how he tt torme— and so it's going to impoverish. how is it going to— and so it's going to impoverish. how is it going to help china ? how is it going to help china? heaee— how is it going to help china? heaee by— how is it going to help china? because by imposing a self tmhoeet— because by imposing a self imposed target— because by imposing a self imposed target on britain , we imposed target on britain, we are advantageous. we're giving

atwamtate— are advantageous. we're giving atwamtaoe to — are advantageous. we're giving advantage to other countries and it's advantage to other countries and tt-e harttewtwtw— advantage to other countries and it's particularly damaging teee— it's particularly damaging because the— it's particularly damaging because the net zero target ahhttee— because the net zero target ahhttee omtw— because the net zero target ahhttee omtw to— because the net zero target applies only to territorial emissions. those are emissions that— emissions. those are emissions that are— emissions. those are emissions that are physically— emissions. those are emissions that are physically spewed out wtthtm— that are physically spewed out within britain.— that are physically spewed out within britain. it— that are physically spewed out within britain. it excludes awattom— within britain. it excludes aviation and— within britain. it excludes aviation and it— within britain. it excludes aviation and it excludes ehthhtmo— aviation and it excludes shipping and- aviation and it excludes shipping and even more tmportamttw— shipping and even more importantly, it excludes emissions— importantly, it excludes emissions gains from elsewhere in emissions gains from elsewhere h the— emissions gains from elsewhere h the wortt— emissions gains from elsewhere h the wortt h— emissions gains from elsewhere in the world in the— emissions gains from elsewhere in the world in the name of weathe— in the world in the name of creating manufactured goods and toot— creating manufactured goods and toot tor— creating manufactured goods and toot tor ht— creating manufactured goods and food for uk consumers , farmers. food for uk consumers, farmers. amt— food for uk consumers, farmers. amt wow— food for uk consumers, farmers. amt wow hat— food for uk consumers, farmers. and you put those— food for uk consumers, farmers. and you put those two things together,— and you put those two things together, wow— and you put those two things together, you think, what's going— together, you think, what's ootmo ome— together, you think, what's going on? government has just ereatet— going on? government has just created itself— going on? government has just created itself a— going on? government has just created itself a huge incentive to ottehore— created itself a huge incentive to offshore our— created itself a huge incentive to offshore our industry , to offshore our industry, ottehore— to offshore our industry, offshore agriculture, because as you offshore agriculture, because as wow to— offshore agriculture, because as wow to that,— offshore agriculture, because as wow to to, wow— offshore agriculture, because as you do that, you take the carbon emteetome— you do that, you take the carbon ott— you do that, you take the carbon emissions off the— you do that, you take the carbon emissions off the uk carbon hatamee— emissions off the uk carbon balance sheet— emissions off the uk carbon balance sheet and you put them on chtma-e— balance sheet and you put them on china's balance— balance sheet and you put them on china's balance sheet. but is there— on china's balance sheet. but is there a— on china's balance sheet. but is there a sense— on china's balance sheet. but is there a sense that we're going to have to back away from this pledge as well as net zero, just the banning on diesel and petrol cars? we've seen europe move away from their own pledges because it just isn't possible to achieve it by 2035. in their

case. can you see the same happening here? ross well, exactly. look what's happening in exactly. look what's happening h twohe— exactly. look what's happening h twohe at— exactly. look what's happening in europe at the— o;,tao

at the moment for— the technology just is not there at the moment for electric cars to rehtaee— at the moment for electric cars to replace petrol— at the moment for electric cars to replace petrol and diesel apart— to replace petrol and diesel cars. apart from _ to replace petrol and diesel cars. apart from , you know, cars. apart from, you know, eertatm— cars. apart from, you know, certain instances- cars. apart from, you know, certain instances , people buy certain instances, people buy them— certain instances, people buy them ae— certain instances, people buy them as second— certain instances, people buy them as second cars to drive aomt— them as second cars to drive aomt towa— them as second cars to drive around town and— them as second cars to drive around town and you charge them at home. — around town and you charge them at home. that— around town and you charge them at home. that makes sense. but short— at home. that makes sense. but ehort rowmewe— at home. that makes sense. but short journeys only,— at home. that makes sense. but short journeys only, but longer journeys from london, not darlington ? no. what do you make darlington? no. what do you make of ulez as well? because i think it kind of seems slightly contradictory to have this drive towards more less polluting vehicles and then to have ulez if the electric vehicles bring down emissions in cities. and by the way, if you look at the london air quality in decks and then you compare it with someone like chiang mai, i mean, it's just minimal the amount of air pollution in london. but whatever does that then make ulez completely redundant? is it just a money spinning exercise for sadiq khan, london for sadiq khan, the london mayor? ulez will make mayor? well, ulez will make marttmat— ”7’ well, ulez will make marginal difference to air twatttw. — marginal difference to air quality. everyone wants clean amt— quality. everyone wants clean amt r— quality. everyone wants clean air. and i mean— quality. everyone wants clean air. and i mean the cleanliness of air. and i mean the cleanliness ot the— air. and i mean the cleanliness ot the at— air. and i mean the cleanliness ot the at h— air. and i mean the cleanliness of the air in britain has tmhrowet— of the air in britain has improved immeasurably in the taet— improved immeasurably in the taet ho— improved immeasurably in the taet so the— improved immeasurably in the last 50 the last— improved immeasurably in the last 50 the last 50 years. i mean, you look— last 50 the last 50 years. i mean, you look at nitrogen oxide

emteetome— mean, you look at nitrogen oxide ae hart— mean, you look at nitrogen oxide emissions as part particulate emteetome,— emissions as part particulate emissions, soot— emissions as part particulate emissions, soot .— emissions as part particulate emissions, soot . you know, there emissions, soot. you know, there are emissions, soot. you know, there ematt— emissions, soot. you know, there are small fraction— emissions, soot. you know, there are small fraction of what they h the — are small fraction of what they were in 1970 when— are small fraction of what they were in 1970 when we have the thet— were in 1970 when we have the ttret eort— were in 1970 when we have the ttret eort ot— were in 1970 when we have the first sort of you— were in 1970 when we have the first sort of you know, records of first sort of you know, records ot that. — first sort of you know, records ot that. amt,— first sort of you know, records of that. and, you— first sort of you know, records of that. and, you know, we could mate— of that. and, you know, we could mate the— of that. and, you know, we could mate the at— of that. and, you know, we could make the air cleaner still . but make the air cleaner still. but the trowhte— make the air cleaner still. but the trouble with— make the air cleaner still. but the trouble with ulez is it concentrates _ the trouble with ulez is it concentrates on the emissions trom— concentrates on the emissions trom emetmee— concentrates on the emissions trom emetmee .— concentrates on the emissions from engines , from older cars. from engines, from older cars. wow— from engines, from older cars. now newer cars— from engines, from older cars. now newer cars have slightly tower— now newer cars have slightly lower emissions,— now newer cars have slightly lower emissions, but not a lot trom— lower emissions, but not a lot rm, wow— lower emissions, but not a lot trom. wow hmow— lower emissions, but not a lot from, you know, a— lower emissions, but not a lot from, you know, a car built in zoos— from, you know, a car built in zoos hae— from, you know, a car built in 2005 has slightly— from, you know, a car built in 2005 has slightly higher emissions— 2005 has slightly higher emissions than one built now. hat— emissions than one built now. hwt wow— emissions than one built now. hwt wow hmow— emissions than one built now. but you know, you're imposing that— but you know, you're imposing that are-ho— but you know, you're imposing that £12.50 charge on a low income motorist— that £12.50 charge on a low income motorist who can't afford to rehtaee— income motorist who can't afford to replace their— income motorist who can't afford to replace their car. _ income motorist who can't afford to replace their car. and there-e— to replace their car. and there-e mo— to replace their car. and there's no charge on your super car there's no charge on your super amt— there's no charge on your super amt hramt— there's no charge on your super car and brand new— there's no charge on your super car and brand new super car that-e— car and brand new super car that-e heohte— car and brand new super car that's people race around the etreete— that's people race around the etreete ot— that's people race around the streets of kensington every summer. and— streets of kensington every summer. and so on. i mean, it's eomhtetetw— summer. and so on. i mean, it's completely ridiculous . it is a completely ridiculous. it is a htthtw— completely ridiculous. it is a highly regressive tax that falls

whom— highly regressive tax that falls whom .— highly regressive tax that falls whom . wow— highly regressive tax that falls whom . wow hmow— highly regressive tax that falls upon , you know, nurses , teachers upon, you know, nurses, teachers amt— upon, you know, nurses, teachers amt heohte— upon, you know, nurses, teachers amt heohte .— upon, you know, nurses, teachers and people , carers,— upon, you know, nurses, teachers and people , carers, particularly and people, carers, particularly heohte— and people, carers, particularly heohte who— and people, carers, particularly people who work— and people, carers, particularly people who work at night, harttewtwtw— people who work at night, particularly disadvantaged by the— particularly disadvantaged by the. heohte— particularly disadvantaged by this, people who are on shifts, aetwattw— this, people who are on shifts, actually probably— this, people who are on shifts, actually probably lower income woreret vow.— actually probably lower income workers. very, very— actually probably lower income workers. t: o.< actually probably lower income workers. «o”«a atop a: o.

already? it's in the shops. in the shops already. check it out now. coming up, should teachers who their be who misgender their pupils be sacked? one of our generation gap panellists thinks they should. a minute , we're should. in just a minute, we're going be speaking to author going to be speaking to author and rebecca and commentator rebecca reid, who'll debating with the who'll be debating that with the former tim smith. former australian mp tim smith. don't go anywhere

on gb news. the people's channel britain is watching .

britain is watching. this welcome back to the camilla tominey show. now it's time for the oemerattom— tominey show. now it's time for the generation gap.— tominey show. now it's time for the generation gap. the- “og now it's time for the generation gap. the part of the generation gap. the part of the ehow— the generation gap. the part of the show where— the generation gap. the part of the show where people from wheat— the show where people from different generations debate hot hotttteat— different generations debate hot political topics— different generations debate hot political topics should teachers who— political topics should teachers who misgender— political topics should teachers who misgender their pupils be eaetete— who misgender their pupils be eaetete rm— who misgender their pupils be sacked? i'm joined by tim smith me.— sacked? i'm joined by tim smith , former australian _ sacked? i'm joined by tim smith , former australian mp and teheeea— , former australian mp and rebecca reed,— , former australian mp and rebecca reed, journalist and commentator. _ rebecca reed, journalist and commentator. now i have to ehreee— commentator. now i have to express a vested— commentator. now i have to express a vested interest heee— express a vested interest heee r— express a vested interest because i interview today because i did interview today roeh— because i did interview today wet-.— because i did interview today roeh-. totaw- because i did interview today roeh-. totaw r- because i did interview today josh . today i interviewed josh howie. today i interviewed for josh howie. today i interviewed tor the— josh howie. today i interviewed for the telegraph— josh howie. today i interviewed for the telegraph last week. roehwa— for the telegraph last week. joshua sutcliffe, who is this teacher— joshua sutcliffe, who is this. teacher_ sacked joshua sutcliffe, who is this- teacher_ sacked for teacher who has been sacked for misgendering— teacher who has been sacked for misgendering pupil. he is misgendering this pupil. he is kind— misgendering this pupil. he is kind of— misgendering this pupil. he is kind of a— misgendering this pupil. he is kind of a controversial figure. he-s— kind of a controversial figure. he's obviously— kind of a controversial figure. he's obviously extremely he .ehemenfly_ he's obviously extremely he vehemently christian. he's got beliefs— vehemently christian. he's got some beliefs that— vehemently christian. he's got some beliefs that some might find— some beliefs that some might find unpalatable, but at the time— find unpalatable, but at the same time he's— find unpalatable, but at the same time he's been sacked . we same time he's been sacked. we need— same time he's been sacked. we need ndns— same time he's been sacked. we need maths teachers. we've now dost— need maths teachers. we've now deed ne— need maths teachers. we've now deed n-e— need maths teachers. we've now lost one. it's an— need maths teachers. we've now lost one. it's an indefinite den.— lost one. it's an indefinite den. nu— lost one. it's an indefinite ban. all because he's used the wrong— ban. all because he's used the wrong pononne— ban. all because he's used the wrong pronouns. rebecca you eon-d— wrong pronouns. rebecca you eon-n justify— wrong pronouns. rebecca you can't justify that. _ wrong pronouns. rebecca you can't justify that. i mean, it's not— can't justify that. i mean, it's not due— can't justify that. i mean, it's not just because— can't justify that. i mean, it's not just because of the pronouns. he- not just because of the pronouns. dz; not just because of the- pronouns. he also apparently showed a video which was about masculinity that had some very like andrew tate connotations. i watched video. it like andrew tate connotations. i watched video . it was watched the video. it was talking about— watched the video. it was talking about i— f: , : it was talking about i mean, it was downd— talking about i mean, it was talking about— talking about i mean, it was talking about masculinity and it

was talking about masculinity and it nond— talking about masculinity and it drying to— talking about masculinity and it was trying to counteract the nnone — was trying to counteract the narrative around toxic masculinity- narrative around toxic masculinity men should masculinity by saying men should just masculinity by saying men should dned ne— masculinity by saying men should just be proud— masculinity by saying men should dned be proud do— masculinity by saying men should just be proud to be— masculinity by saying men should just be proud to be men. it's nod— just be proud to be men. it's nod dnod— just be proud to be men. it's not that controversial. sure. nud— not that controversial. sure. end ne — not that controversial. sure. end ne dnod— not that controversial. sure. but he that wasn't his position. he but he that wasn't his position. ne-edppoeed— but he that wasn't his position. ne-edppoeed do- but he that wasn't his position. he-supposed to be- he wasn't supposed to be teaching lesson about that. he teaching a lesson about that. he was seeking out the opportunity to things were was seeking out the opportunity to within things were was seeking out the opportunity to within his things were was seeking out the opportunity to within his wheelhouse. were was seeking out the opportunity to within his wheelhouse. ande not within his wheelhouse. and similarly, also some similarly, he also said some stuff islam. apparently, stuff about islam. apparently, that great. that was really not great. that wasn't in investigation to wasn't in the investigation to just get this nailed down. he was to be wanting in just get this nailed down. hei was-to be wanting in the was found to be wanting in the doddondnd— was found to be wanting in the following areas— was found to be wanting in the following areas misgendering and dense— following areas misgendering and nednd-nononne- following areas misgendering and using pronouns. the using the wrong pronouns. the enondnd— using the wrong pronouns. the enondnd od— using the wrong pronouns. the showing of this— using the wrong pronouns. the showing of this video pupil was dodned— showing of this video pupil was edodned ne— showing of this video pupil was claimed he did— showing of this video pupil was claimed he did it— showing of this video pupil was claimed he did it in the maths deeeno— claimed he did it in the maths deeeno ne— claimed he did it in the maths lesson. he said— claimed he did it in the maths lesson. he said he— claimed he did it in the maths lesson. he said he didn't. he ined— lesson. he said he didn't. he deed nedened— lesson. he said he didn't. he just referred them to it. and dne— just referred them to it. and dne odnen— just referred them to it. and the other thing— just referred them to it. and the other thing that he was doend— the other thing that he was found wanting— the other thing that he was found wanting when the other thing that he was- found wanting-when he found wanting was that when he ran found wanting was that when he o nddde— found wanting was that when he ran a bible group— found wanting was that when he ran a bible group and he was oeded— ran a bible group and he was oeded odoed— ran a bible group and he was asked about whether gay marriage was asked about whether gay marriage nee—dne- was compatible with the cnneddon— was compatible with the christian-said. was compatible with the. christian-said no. was compatible with the- christian-said no. and christian faith, he said no. and dnod— that offended somebody in the enoeo. —dnod- that offended somebody in the group- —dnod onei group. yeah. and on that one, dnoedn— group. yeah. and on that one, dnoeen dnod— group. yeah. and on that one, though, that on— group. yeah. and on that one, though, that on that one isn't it? though, that on that one isn't ddelnoedd— though, that on that one isn't it? iwould-him - though, that on that one isn't it.7 would him that if it.7 i would give him that if dd-e— it.7 i would give him that if we o— it.7 i would give him that if we o d— it.7 i would give him that if we o d dd-e— it.7 i would give him that if it's a if it's a— it.7 i would give him that if it's a if it's a bible study dndnd— it's a if it's a bible study dndnd-ne-e- it's a if it's a bible study thing he's leading fine in thing that he's leading fine in a thing that he's leading fine in o nodde— thing that he's leading fine in a maths lesson— thing that he's leading fine in a maths lesson any other a maths lesson or any other eddeoddon— a maths lesson or any other situation, then— a maths lesson or any other situation, then he shouldn't be dodddnd— situation, then he shouldn't bei dodddnd—onen-d talking about things that aren't his talking about things that aren't nde eoeddde— talking about things that aren't his specific responsibility. i dndnd— his specific responsibility. i dndnd-don- think the firing for

misgendering take misgendering was right. i take the misgendering was right. i take dne-oodnde— misgendering was right. i take the-points, but- misgendering was right. i take the points, but let's the other two points, but let's dadd— the other two points, but let's talk misgendering because talk about misgendering because we're waiting for guidance from eedoode— we're waiting for guidance from eenoode. _i- we're waiting for guidance from eedoode—dd edd- we're waiting for guidance from schools. _it say toi schools. what should it say to deoenenee— schools. what should it say to teachers? well,— schools. what should it say to teachers? well, so— schools. what should it say to teachers? well, so i think legally— teachers? well, so i think deeded-eon- teachers? well, so i think legally-can sue- teachers? well, so i think legally can sue an employer legally you can sue an employer for discrimination— legally you can sue an employer for discrimination if they won't doen— for discrimination if they won't use your correct— for discrimination if they won't use your correct pronouns. so i done— use your correct pronouns. so i done-end— use your correct pronouns. so i don-d-nnd dds— use your correct pronouns. so i don't why it's different if don't see why it's different if your employer won't do it, if your employer won't do it, if your teacher won't, it's somewhere you don't have a somewhere that you don't have a choice. be at choice. you have to be at school. the difference is, is mad— school. the difference is, is that children _ school. the difference is, is that children are— f the difference is, is that children are children and dned-ne— that children are children and dned-ne-so- that children are children and they're so should they they're under 18. so should they be ddedoddnd— they're under 18. so should they be dictating terms— they're under 18. so should they be dictating terms teachers? be dictating terms to teachers? non— be dictating terms to teachers? non dned-ne — be dictating terms to teachers? how they're addressed all? how they're addressed at all? i neon-de— how they're addressed at all? i mean, is absolutely mean, this is absolutely ridiculous. _ mean, this is absolutely ridiculous. i- mean, this is absolutely ridiculous. " mean, this is absolutely ridiculous. i mean, guy's ridiculous. i mean, this guy's lost his let's take mr lost his job. and let's take mr sutcliffe this. not sutcliffe out of this. it's not about about whether or about him. it's about whether or not you say to a class of students, well done which students, well done girls, which he , and one of the people in he did, and one of the people in the room identifies as a boy , the room identifies as a boy, which they're not, but they have a girl. well they have the right to identify as they can identify as a headstand. but that doesn't mean they are one. and so you don't think people can transition at all. you just you can transition at all. you just you ddendddd— transition at all. you just you can identify as— e cd" you just you can identify as anything you doe.— can identify as anything you ddde. — can identify as anything you ddde. ded— can identify as anything you ddde. due a— can identify as anything you like. but a school- can identify as anything you like. f f like. but a school teacher is got every right to call a class

of students who are self—evidently all girls, girls , boys. because, because, because , because by their mind, because, because by their mind, they're not. because it's a ddododdeod— they're not. because it's a biological fact. - they're not. because it's a biological fact. but,- ”dz; because it's a biological fact. they're not. because it's a- biological fact. but, tim, let's deed. ded-e— biological fact. but, tim, let's deed. ded-edeed— biological fact. but, tim, let's just. let'sjustjust_ biological fact. but, tim, let's just. let's just just get- biologicalfact. let's just just get some just. let's just just get some more context— just. let's just just get some more context into— let's just just get some more context into this. uh, deeonddnd— more context into this. uh, oeoonddnd do— more context into this. uh, according to the report , this according to the report, this end— according to the report, this enddd nod— according to the report, this child had had— according to the report, this child had had entered the school ddendddddnd— child had had entered the school ddendddddne oe— child had had entered the school ddendddddne oe o— child had had entered the school identifying as a different genie.— identifying as a different eenden eo— identifying as a different gender, so nobody knew. opponenddd— gender, so nobody knew. apparently that this pupil who nonde do— apparently that this pupil who now wants to be _ apparently that this pupil who now wants to be identified as a boy,— now wants to be identified as a nod, woe— now wants to be identified as a nod, oe— now wants to be identified as a nod, oe o— now wants to be identified as a boy, was as a girl.— now wants to be identified as a boy, was as a girl. so in saying ,wai_ boy, was as a girl. so in saying ,..ai do...— boy, was as a girl. so in saying , well done, girls,— boy, was as a girl. so in saying , well done, girls, he was oedeoddd— , well done, girls, he was actually outing- , well done, girls, he was actually outing this pupil as dend— actually outing this pupil as being done— actually outing this pupil as being trans gender when some of the being trans gender when some of dne pende— being trans gender when some of dne pepdde ndend— being trans gender when some of the pupils might not have been od— the pupils might not have been of d. — the pupils might not have been aware of it. well— the pupils might not have been aware of it. well ,_ the pupils might not have been aware of it. well , i- the pupils might not have been aware of it. will cut» aware of it. well, i do think more broadly, we are entering a penod more broadly, we are entering a period of woke madness when it comes to people identifying as various different things that has no basis in it, has no basis in biological fact. people are take in biological fact. people are done deod— in biological fact. people are done one dne— " 3 did? ”at people are take away the biological " 3 did? edi people are take away the biological fact endenend— take away the biological fact argument because you're clearly vend— argument because you're clearly vend oppoeed— argument because you're clearly

vend ooooeed on— argument because you're clearly very opposed on that particular doe— very opposed on that particular issue. you think— very opposed on that particular issue. you think people should be issue. you think people should de odde— issue. you think people should be odde do— issue. you think people should be able to transition and self—identify.— be able to transition and self—identify. transition is the dndnd—deddevei thing that exists. you believe dnod— thing that exists. you believe that biological— thing that exists. you believe that biological sex is immutable. - that biological sex is immutable. i get that point . immutable. i get that point. ded-e— immutable. i get that point. ded-e dadd— immutable. i get that point. let's talk about— immutable. i get that point. let's talk about children, deeoeee— let's talk about children, because sutcliffe's argument let's talk about children, becethat sutcliffe's argument let's talk about children, becethat actuallyiffe's argument let's talk about children, becethat actually under rgument let's talk about children, becethat actually under 18,ment was that actually under 18, doe-ne— was that actually under 18, done doo— was that actually under 18, you're too young to affirm and you— you're too young to affirm and doe enoeddn-d— you're too young to affirm and you shouldn't be— you're too young to affirm and you shouldn't be dictating to deoenene— you shouldn't be dictating to teachers what— you shouldn't be dictating to teachers what pronouns they enoedd — teachers what pronouns they enoedd eee— teachers what pronouns they should use. and— teachers what pronouns they should use. and if they get it wrong— should use. and if they get it wrong dnod— should use. and if they get it wrong that they— should use. and if they get it wrong that they then face the end — wrong that they then face the end ode-ve — wrong that they then face the sack. we've got— wrong that they then face the sack. we've got a— wrong that they then face the sack. we've got a shortage. dnene— sack. we've got a shortage. there - massive - sack. we've got a shortage. there massive no come on there is a massive no come on now—d— there is a massive no come on .ow,_. nodd- there is a massive no come on now,_| would neverj there is a massive no come on- now,_| would never say now, come on. i would never say that if you accidentally misgender somebody, you should lose that's the lose your job. that's not the case at well, some are case at all. well, some are saying broadly speaking, saying and broadly speaking, people are very understanding about, for instance, sam smith, who will very often who is they? i will very often say and then correct myself . say he and then correct myself. if a problem, that's if that's not a problem, that's not hate crime. that's not an not a hate crime. that's not an act aggression, that's an act of aggression, that's an actual it actual accident. doing it maliciously different. maliciously is very different. but to be fair, but he wasn't. no, to be fair, dnde— but he wasn't. no, to be fair, dnde ddnddnd— but he wasn't. no, to be fair, this finding, he— but he wasn't. no, to be fair, this finding, he wasn't it this finding, he wasn't doing it noddedoeedd— this finding, he wasn't doing it maliciously at— this finding, he wasn't doing it maliciously at all. he refused to course. correct. _ maliciously at all. he refused to course. correct. what role doee— to course. correct. what role does in does christian teaching have in eenoode— does christian teaching have in eenoode od— does christian teaching have in schools at all,— does christian teaching have in schools at all, even if they're eeeedone— schools at all, even if they're secular? what— schools at all, even if they're secular? what role does a cnneddon— secular? what role does a christian teacher have in a eenood— christian teacher have in a schoollbecause- christian teacher have in a school because their own school if because of their own cnneddon— school if because of their own christian faith,— school if because of their own christian faith, they don't want

to christian faith, they don't want do be — christian faith, they don't want do be eednd— christian faith, they don't want to be using the— christian faith, they don't want to be using the wrong ? as far as to be using the wrong? as far as dnedde— to be using the wrong? as far as they're concerned,— to be using the wrong? as far as they're concerned, there's no place— they're concerned, there's no odoee don— they're concerned, there's no place for proselytes rising in edode— place for proselytes rising in state schools. _ place for proselytes rising in state schools. , dz; . place for proselytes rising in state schools. i g state schools. however, teaching children about faith, children about about faith, about the christian faith, about other faiths is knowledge worth having. and i think it's knowledge worth sharing. and a very interpretation of very strict interpretation of the scriptures would suggest that at same sex relations and we know this because the churches refused to marry, to marry same sex couples, even the church of england refuses to marry same sex couples. so that's a fact. but there's a difference. what you just said is difference. what you just said de en— difference. what you just said is an absolute— difference. what you just said is an absolute fact. - d: ”winnie: what you just said is an absolute fact. yes, dnene-e— is an absolute fact. yes, dnene-e o— is an absolute fact. yes, there's a difference between eoddnd— there's a difference between eoddne dnde— there's a difference between saying this religion believes dnod— saying this religion believes dnod eome— saying this religion believes that same sex— saying this religion believes that same sex marriage wrong saying this religion believes that sayingsex marriage wrong saying this religion believes that sayingsex mesex ge wrong saying this religion believes that sayingsex mesex marriageig saying this religion believes that sayingsex mesex marriage is and saying same sex marriage is one— wrong. those are two very ddddenend— wrong. those are two very different statements. one of dnen — different statements. one of them effectively an us and them is effectively an us and one _value judge| them is effectively an us and- one _value judge who one of them is a value judge who edd— one of them is a value judge who eodd dnod. — one of them is a value judge who eodd dnod. .— one of them is a value judge who said that. i think— one of them is a value judge who said that. ithink-made- one of them is a value judge who said that. : said that. i think he made the point this is what the point that this is what the christian faith teaches. now and i think his i think his understanding christian i think his i think his unde may ding christian i think his i think his unde may well christian i think his i think his unde may well be christian i think his i think his unde may well be differentian i think his i think his unde may well be different to faith may well be different to other understanding of faith may well be different to othichristian understanding of faith may well be different to othichristian faith.erstanding of faith may well be different to othichristian faith. butanding of faith may well be different to othichristian faith. but iiding of faith may well be different to othichristian faith. but i don't)f the christian faith. but i don't think saying every think he was saying but every single time that one of these cases where teacher cases comes up where a teacher claims been fired for

claims to have been fired for misgendering somebody, there is always, every case, a always, in every single case, a wider context. you will always always, in every single case, a wideifind text. you will always always, in every single case, a wideifind axt. you will always always, in every single case, a wideifind a list you will always always, in every single case, a wideifind a list yotother always always, in every single case, a wideifind a list yotother things then find a list of other things dnod— then find a list of other things do dned-ve— then find a list of other things that they've done— then find a list of other things that they've done seriously. is it that they've done seriously. is dd n— that they've done seriously. is it a sackable_ that they've done seriously. is it a sackable offence- that they've done seriously. is it a sackable offence if- that they've done seriously. is it a sackable offence if you say, well, girls, when someone identifies in that identifies as a boy in that class, if you've outed class, well, if you've outed somebody as trans, i would say thatis somebody as trans, i would say that is a fairly massive failing. this guy also been failing. this guy also had been nod— failing. this guy also had been nod-dod— failing. this guy also had been nod-don od— failing. this guy also had been had-job at what,- failing. this guy also had been had-job at what, two- had lost a job at what, two eenoode— had lost a job at what, two schools previously. this is clearly— schools previously. this is clearly consistent schools previously. this is- clearly l consistent _with clearly a consistent issue with mm.— clearly a consistent issue with ndn. eddy,— clearly a consistent issue with him. okay, folks,— clearly a consistent issue with him. okay, folks, we're going to node— him. okay, folks, we're going to node-deede— him. okay, folks, we're going to have i leave .there. - him. okay, folks, we're going to have leave there. e have to leave it there. it's a good— have to leave it there. it's a good donne— have to leave it there. it's a good debate. i— have to leave it there. it's a good debate. i love it. i'm sorry the generation wasn't wide enough, it was because enough, that gap. it was because juue enough, that gap. it was because julie bindel, who were going to have this have on, did get covid this morning. her all the morning. so we wish her all the very now as you know, up very best. now as you know, up next, michael portillo. next, it's michael portillo. i'll be back here at 930 next sunday. lovely see you. have sunday. lovely to see you. have a day . a&e .

away . away. good andy.— i good morning andy.— l good morning and away. good morning and welcome to i good morning and welcome to sendod— . good morning and welcome to eendod edn— . good morning and welcome to sunday with michael— good morning and welcome to sunday with michael portillo edn— sunday with michael portillo eddn-noene— sunday with michael portillo with-hours of— sunday with michael portillo with hours of good with two hours of good conversation, - with two hours of good conversation, arts and entertainment, dilemmas entertainment, ethical dilemmas and entertainment, ethical dilemmas ond o— entertainment, ethical dilemmas ond o od— entertainment, ethical dilemmas and a sense of the— entertainment, ethical dilemmas and a sense of the ridiculous to eondnd— and a sense of the ridiculous to eondne en— and a sense of the ridiculous to eondne ep dn— and a sense of the ridiculous to eondne ep dn dne— and a sense of the ridiculous to coming up in the sphere of nndden— coming up in the sphere of british politics. _ coming up in the sphere of british politics. we'll look at de— british politics. we'll look at dne dodoen— british politics. we'll look at the labour party's chances of a big eonedoed— the labour party's chances of a big comeback in— the labour party's chances of a big comeback in scotland as the doddonoddede— big comeback in scotland as the nationalists continue their doddeodn— nationalists continue their doddeodn dn— nationalists continue their doddeodn dn o— nationalists continue their tailspin in a recent poll eeeeeede—