for the whatsapps and stuff like that. well, now the government has launched a legal challenge against the inquiry that it set up. basically saying it's stepping over a line requesting pretty much everything . regret pretty much everything. regret is the word that the government are using. other people say desperate action is a more accurate word . what do you say accurate word. what do you say we will have all the latest on that and i confess it's quite rare . you'll hear me quoting rare. you'll hear me quoting greek philosopher , but aristotle

greek philosopher, but aristotle apparently once said that poverty is the parent of revolution and crime . now, let's revolution and crime. now, let's be honest. now there is crime pretty much everywhere, dummy . pretty much everywhere, dummy. empty jars of coffee on the shelf now to stop them getting nicked. so it's got me wondering, is poverty the parent of crime or is poverty simply an excuse .7 issues and diversity excuse? issues and diversity targets .7 excuse? issues and diversity targets ? are they harming targets? are they harming britain's security ? i'm asking britain's security? i'm asking because you might have noticed that the raf are being asked to stop hiring white male pilots. why? surely you just want the best person for the job to and make sure that all your vacancies are filled. or am i just a little bit old fashioned? we're going to have all of that and more. but first, let's bring ourselves up to speed with tonight's latest headlines as. michelle, thank you. will the top stories this— michelle, thank you. will the top stories this hour.- m f m" will the top stories this hour. the breaking— top stories this hour. the breaking news- top stories this hour. the breaking news that the covid inquiry,— breaking news that the covid inquiry, the— breaking news that the covid inquiry, the cabinet office

rather, — inquiry, the cabinet office rather, is— inquiry, the cabinet office rather, is seeking a legal challenge— rather, is seeking a legal challenge to— rather, is seeking a legal challenge to the covid inquiry order— challenge to the covid inquiry order to— challenge to the covid inquiry order to release— challenge to the covid inquiry order to release the former prime— order to release the former prime minister,— order to release the former prime minister, boris johnson's whatsapp— prime minister, boris johnson's whatsapp messages. it was given, as michelle— whatsapp messages. it was given, as michelle was— whatsapp messages. it was given, as michelle was saying, until 4:00— as michelle was saying, until moo today— as michelle was saying, until ooo today to— as michelle was saying, until 4:00 today to hand over the wooded— 4:00 today to hand over the unredacted messages between mr johnson— unredacted messages between mr johnson and— unredacted messages between mr johnson and his— unredacted messages between mr johnson and his advisers during the pandemic— johnson and his advisers during one panaonn ,— johnson and his advisers during the pandemic , as— johnson and his advisers during the pandemic , as well as his the pandemic, as well as his nanos— the pandemic, as well as his aaanoo ana— the pandemic, as well as his diaries and his— the pandemic, as well as his diaries and his notebooks. the nano— diaries and his notebooks. the prime minister— diaries and his notebooks. the prime minister earlier said the oovonnnonn— prime minister earlier said the government is— prime minister earlier said the government is confident in its position— government is confident in its position no— government is confident in its position to respond to the covid anaaanoo. — position to respond to the covid inquiries. demand— position to respond to the covid inquiries. demand for full disclosure— inquiries. demand for full disclosure of— inquiries. demand for full disclosure of the private messages and papers. the cabinet office— messages and papers. the cabinet onnoo nan— messages and papers. the cabinet office had previously argued the manna— office had previously argued the material was— office had previously argued the material was irrelevant and named— material was irrelevant and named an— material was irrelevant and claimed it didn't need to reveal it. meanwhile,— claimed it didn't need to reveal it. meanwhile, labour has received— it. meanwhile, labour has received a— it. meanwhile, labour has received a formal complaint over the received a formal complaint over one common— received a formal complaint over the conduct of— received a formal complaint over the conduct of the— received a formal complaint over the conduct of the mp gareth oavn. — the conduct of the mp gareth oavn. no— the conduct of the mp gareth davis. he was— the conduct of the mp gareth davis. he was suspended by the party— davis. he was suspended by the pan penning— davis. he was suspended by the party pending an_ davis. he was suspended by the party pending an investigation anno— party pending an investigation into nonono— party pending an investigation anao nopono on— party pending an investigation into reports of incredibly serious allegations of commonly- serious allegations of completely unacceptable behaviour. _ completely unacceptable behaviour. the swansea west mp has behaviour. the swansea west mp nao nan— behaviour. the swansea west mp nao naa ano— behaviour. the swansea west mp has had the whip— behaviour. the swansea west mp has had the whip removed while a review was carried _ has had the whip removed while a review was carried out. dorset nonco— review was carried out. dorset nonoo nas— review was carried out. dorset police has launched an investigation- police has launched an investigation into the deaths of two investigation into the deaths of on young— investigation into the deaths of two young swimmers at bournemouth- two young swimmers at bournemouth beach . a 12 year old bournemouth beach. a 12 year old girl bournemouth beach. a 12 year old on non — bournemouth beach. a 12 year old girl from buckinghamshire and a

17 girl from buckinghamshire and a n yea— girl from buckinghamshire and a n yoan ood— girl from buckinghamshire and a n yea old boy— girl from buckinghamshire and a 17 year old boy from southampton ana— 17 year old boy from southampton and anon— 17 year old boy from southampton died after being— 17 year old boy from southampton died after being pulled from the sea died after being pulled from the yooaonaay— died after being pulled from the sea yesterday afternoon. our sonn— sea yesterday afternoon. our soann oaon— sea yesterday afternoon. our south east reporter ray addison has south east reporter ray addison nao ann— south east reporter ray addison nao nnn noon— south east reporter ray addison has this report for— south east reporter ray addison has this report for dorset. nonco— has this report for dorset. police confirmed- has this report for dorset. police confirmed that- has this report for dorset. police confirmed that members of the public played a key role in helping to rescue ten people who were in trouble in the waters here at bournemouth beach. eight of them were treated by ambulance crews on the beach side . two were taken to hospital side. two were taken to hospital in a critical condition where they sadly later died. now an investigation has been launched. operation marble , a man in his operation marble, a man in his 40s, is in custody on suspicion of mansoor . water and dorset. of mansoor. water and dorset. police are urging the public, if you've got any video footage of this incident to get in touch and share it with them so it will help this investigation . will help this investigation. two teenage boys have been arrested— two teenage boys have been arrested after— two teenage boys have been arrested after a _ two teenage boys have been arrested after a man was found dead— arrested after a man was found dead in— arrested after a man was found dead in manchester. the 21 year old dead in manchester. the 21 year an was— dead in manchester. the 21 year old was found— dead in manchester. the 21 year old was found with— dead in manchester. the 21 year old was found with serious injuries— old was found with serious injuries in— old was found with serious injuries in old— old was found with serious injuries in old trafford yooaonaay. — injuries in old trafford yesterday. he was pronounced dead— yesterday. he was pronounced dead an— yesterday. he was pronounced dead an ano— yesterday. he was pronounced dead at the scene. a 15 year old boy— dead at the scene. a 15 year old boy nas— dead at the scene. a 15 year old boy nao noon— dead at the scene. a 15 year old boy has been arrested on suspicion— boy has been arrested on suspicion of— boy has been arrested on suspicion of murder and a 16

yea— suspicion of murder and a 16 year om— suspicion of murder and a 16 yea eta nae— suspicion of murder and a 16 year old has been arrested on suspicion— year old has been arrested on suspicion of— year old has been arrested on suspicion of possessing an offensive— suspicion of possessing an offensive weapon . police offensive weapon. police investigating— offensive weapon. police investigating the disappearance of madeleine— investigating the disappearance of madeleine mccann say they recovered several— of madeleine mccann say they recovered several items during oase— recovered several items during last wee-en— recovered several items during last week's searches of a nonagaeee— last week's searches of a portuguese resort faux pas. oennan— portuguese resort faux pas. german officials say the items can-n— german officials say the items ean-n yen— german officials say the items ean-n yet be— german officials say the items can't yet be linked to her disappearance— can't yet be linked to her disappearance , and that will be disappearance, and that will be evaluated— disappearance, and that will be evaluated over— disappearance, and that will be evaluated over the coming weeks. a large— evaluated over the coming weeks. a large eeenon— evaluated over the coming weeks. a large section of— evaluated over the coming weeks. a large section of the reservoir ana— a large section of the reservoir and dan— a large section of the reservoir and aan nae— a large section of the reservoir and dam was cordoned off around 30 and dam was cordoned off around so noes— and dam was cordoned off around so notes from— and dam was cordoned off around 30 miles from where the three yea— 30 miles from where the three year ood— 30 miles from where the three year old originally went missing in year old originally went missing an ano— year old originally went missing in two thousand— year old originally went missing in two thousand and seven. ponce— in two thousand and seven. police say— in two thousand and seven. police say their— in two thousand and seven. police say their investigation anno— police say their investigation into one — police say their investigation into the main— police say their investigation into the main suspect , police say their investigation into the main suspect, christian nnaeennen— into the main suspect, christian brueckner, who _ into the main suspect, christian brueckner, who is— into the main suspect, christian brueckner, who is a german nanonan— brueckner, who is a german nanonao n— brueckner, who is a german national, is expected to continue— national, is expected to continue for— national, is expected to continue for some time . a man continue for some time. a man nno— continue for some time. a man nno nanauy— continue for some time. a man who fatally stabbed a young nonnen— who fatally stabbed a young mother with _ who fatally stabbed a young mother with a _ who fatally stabbed a young mother with a screwdriver has been— mother with a screwdriver has been janee— mother with a screwdriver has been jailed for— mother with a screwdriver has been jailed for life . 27 year been jailed for life. 27 year old— been jailed for life. 27 year old michaela— been jailed for life. 27 year old michaela taylor suffered neany— old michaela taylor suffered neany zoo— old michaela taylor suffered nearly 200 injuries at the hands of nearly 200 injuries at the hands on oo— nearly 200 injuries at the hands on oo yea— nearly 200 injuries at the hands on oo yean om— nearly 200 injuries at the hands of 68 year old david jackson, nno— of 68 year old david jackson, nno annea— of 68 year old david jackson, who arrived at— of 68 year old david jackson, who arrived at the scene a few nonn— who arrived at the scene a few noun laten— who arrived at the scene a few hours later and— who arrived at the scene a few hours later and casually mentioned— hours later and casually mentioned to- hours later and casually mentioned to police he'd killed someone upstairs.— mentioned to police he'd killed someone upstairs. her body was nonna— someone upstairs. her body was found naaen— someone upstairs. her body was found hidden under a duvet on the found hidden under a duvet on one bedroom—

found hidden under a duvet on the bedroom floor— found hidden under a duvet on the bedroom floor of the flat in the bedroom floor of the flat in one eany— the bedroom floor of the flat in the early hours— the bedroom floor of the flat in the early hours of— the bedroom floor of the flat in the early hours of august 2022, anon.— the early hours of august 2022, anon anon— the early hours of august 2022, anon. anon anon.— the early hours of august 2022, just. just stop. oil— the early hours of august 2022, just. just stop. oil protesters blocked— just. just stop. oil protesters blocked england's cricket team bus blocked england's cricket team one ae— blocked england's cricket team one as no— blocked england's cricket team bus as it's made— blocked england's cricket team bus as it's made its way towards none-e— bus as it's made its way towards lona-e enn— bus as it's made its way towards lord's this morning— bus as it's made its way towards lord's this morning . they stood lord's this morning. they stood in none— lord's this morning. they stood in none of— lord's this morning. they stood in front of the— lord's this morning. they stood in front of the coach in the madne— in front of the coach in the middle of— in front of the coach in the middle of the— in front of the coach in the middle of the road, preventing the middle of the road, preventing one team— middle of the road, preventing the team from _ middle of the road, preventing the team from getting to the ground— the team from getting to the ground on— the team from getting to the ground on time.— the team from getting to the ground on time. cricketerjonny ground on time. cricketer jonny nanny— ground on time. cricketer jonny bairstow posted— ground on time. cricketer jonny bairstow posted a— ground on time. cricketer jonny bairstow posted a photograph on sona— bairstow posted a photograph on social neon— bairstow posted a photograph on social media saying, if we're a bit social media saying, if we're a on lane,— social media saying, if we're a on late ne— social media saying, if we're a bit late, it's not— social media saying, if we're a bit late, it's not our fault. they— bit late, it's not our fault. nney aa— bit late, it's not our fault. they did eventually arrive safety— they did eventually arrive safety at— they did eventually arrive safely at lord's- they did eventually arrive safely at lord's where day one of safely at lord's where day one on one— safely at lord's where day one on one neon— safely at lord's where day one of the test match— safely at lord's where day one of the test match between england— of the test match between england and— of the test match between england and ireland is now well underway— england and ireland is now well underway .— england and ireland is now well andenyay . and— england and ireland is now well underway . and the prince and underway. and the prince and princess— underway. and the prince and princess of— underway. and the prince and princess of wales have made a surprise— princess of wales have made a surprise den— princess of wales have made a surprise visit to— princess of wales have made a surprise visit to jordan to attend— surprise visit to jordan to attend ane — surprise visit to jordan to attend the wedding of the country-e— attend the wedding of the country's crown prince william and— country's crown prince william and kate — country's crown prince william and kate are among a host of foreign— and kate are among a host of noneddn neyaday— and kate are among a host of foreign royalty attending the nandade— foreign royalty attending the napdade on— foreign royalty attending the nuptials of prince hussein and his nuptials of prince hussein and no sadd— nuptials of prince hussein and his saudi arabian— nuptials of prince hussein and his saudi arabian bride. the celebrations— his saudi arabian bride. the celebrations are— his saudi arabian bride. the celebrations are being held at the celebrations are being held at ane saffron— celebrations are being held at the saffron palace . that's the the saffron palace. that's the same venue chosen by the crown ndnee-e— same venue chosen by the crown annee-e fatnen— same venue chosen by the crown annee-e nadnen ,— same venue chosen by the crown prince's father , king abdullah prince's father, king abdullah ii. prince's father, king abdullah n. and— prince's father, king abdullah n. and yoe— prince's father, king abdullah ii. and you're up— prince's father, king abdullah ii. and you're up to date on tv , ondne— ii. and you're up to date on tv ,o..nne, oana— ii. and you're up to date on tv , online, dab+ radio and the dune— , online, dab+ radio and the tune in— , online, dab+ radio and the dune dn app.— , online, dab+ radio and the tune in app. this— , online, dab+ radio and the tune in app. this is gb news,

ordain-e— tune in app. this is gb news, britain's news— tune in app. this is gb news, britain's news ._ britain's news. channel dnanne— britain's news. channel thanks for— britain's news. channel thanks for that. rid" thanks for that. ella whelan michelle dewberry with you right through till 7:00 tonight alongside me , ella whelan is the alongside me, ella whelan is the author and previous panellist as well. had you for a while. welcome back. nice to see you. and a new face, everybody. we like those, don't we? gary trowsdale is a youth worker and executive director spirit executive director of the spirit of london foundation. good evening to you. and you know the drill, don't you? it's not just about us on this panel here. it's very much about you at home tonight. what's on your mind? i imagine you'll be familiar imagine that you'll be familiar by the situation by now with the situation regarding whatsapps all regarding the whatsapps and all the of it. fascinated to the rest of it. fascinated to know you to all of know what you think to all of that. get in touch. gb views at gb news .com is how get me gb news .com is how you get me on or you can me at on email. or you can tweet me at gb news. but of course that top story then i've got to try not to laugh quite frankly, because

i do just found this whole thing a little ludicrous. now i'm a little bit ludicrous. now i'm not a film writer, but if i was, i perhaps would struggle to come up with all of these weird twists and turns, because often i do think you can't even make this up. refer, of course, to this up. i refer, of course, to the covid inquiry, the request for like whatsapps for things like whatsapps notepads and the like to be turned over to the inquiry. well, the delay, sorry, the deadune well, the delay, sorry, the deadline was extended, wasn't it, to 4:00 today? it's not going to happen, everybody, because the government is launching a legal challenge against it. they basically saying that it's a little bit of overreach or a step too far to get all of the information that they basically deem irrelevant to the inquiry. this inquiry, by the way, has cost £114 million and has taken 18 months so far just to get off the ground. anyway, they reckon it's not for this inquiry to decide what information it needs at all. let's have a look , shall we, let's have a look, shall we, quickly before we get into this with our political guru, olivia . they have issued a statement, though , saying the following we

though, saying the following we consider that to be important . consider that to be important. issues of principle at stake here affecting both the rights of individuals and the proper conduct of governments . the conduct of governments. the request for unambiguously irrelevant material goes beyond the powers of the inquiry. individuals junior officials, current and former ministers and departments should not be required to provide material thatis required to provide material that is irrelevant to the inquiries work. it represents an unwarranted intrusion into other aspects of the work of government . it also represents government. it also represents an intrusion into the legitimate expectations and privacy and protection of their personal information . olivia i have to information. olivia i have to say this was always anticipated as a potential outcome to this request, wasn't it? so it's not hugely surprising that this has happened, is it? it's not particularly surprising. it sounded earlier this afternoon nnen— sounded earlier this afternoon nnen aden— sounded earlier this afternoon when rishi sunak was refused to say in— when rishi sunak was refused to say in a— when rishi sunak was refused to say n a pod— when rishi sunak was refused to say in a pool interview that he nodd— say in a pool interview that he noadd nod— say in a pool interview that he would not seek— say in a pool interview that he would not seek legal help with one.— would not seek legal help with one. do— would not seek legal help with this. it sounded— would not seek legal help with this. it sounded as though he

dune— this. it sounded as though he was quite likely— this. it sounded as though he was quite likely to. for nnaaeven— was quite likely to. for whatever reason, the government does— whatever reason, the government does no— whatever reason, the government does not want— whatever reason, the government does not wand do— whatever reason, the government does not want to hand over these aneee— does not want to hand over these aneee wnaaeapn — does not want to hand over these these whatsapp messages in their unredacted— these whatsapp messages in their unredacted form _ these whatsapp messages in their unredacted form .— these whatsapp messages in their unredacted form . now, there are unredacted form. now, there are a conde— unredacted form. now, there are a eoande on— unredacted form. now, there are a couple of reasons— unredacted form. now, there are a couple of reasons why they nddna— a couple of reasons why they nddnd ne— a couple of reasons why they nddna ne eo— a couple of reasons why they might be so reluctant and one, of course, which— might be so reluctant and one, of course, which is— might be so reluctant and one, of course, which is the perhaps eaddnd— of course, which is the perhaps more exciting option . one is more exciting option. one is anat— more exciting option. one is and anene— more exciting option. one is that there is— more exciting option. one is that there is a— more exciting option. one is that there is a sitting cabinet minister,— that there is a sitting cabinet minister, perhaps the prime ninetee— minister, perhaps the prime minister himself, who said eoneandnd— minister himself, who said something incriminating or at the something incriminating or at ane very— something incriminating or at ane deny dead— something incriminating or at the very least risque in messages to- the very least risque in messages to boris johnson. /:::. messages to boris johnson. you see messages to boris johnson. you one— messages to boris johnson. you see the excitement— messages to boris johnson. you see the excitement in- messages to boris johnson. you see the excitement in your eyes. you can tell you're a political reporter. you're getting right into it. right. carry on. and they want that sort- into it. right. carry on. and they want that sort of- they want that sort of covered up- — they want that sort of covered up. dnade— they want that sort of covered an nnade nny— they want that sort of covered up. that's why keep hearing up. that's why we keep hearing anod— up. that's why we keep hearing anon-on— up. that's why we keep hearing about-of cover- up. that's why we keep hearing about-of cover up,- about the sort of cover up, pennane— about the sort of cover up, pennape ane— about the sort of cover up, perhaps the less interesting and maybe— perhaps the less interesting and maybe noe— perhaps the less interesting and maybe more option is maybe more likely option is ednndy— maybe more likely option is ednady anat— maybe more likely option is simply that cabinet simply that the cabinet office is simply that the cabinet office de-anoaa— simply that the cabinet office is-about setting- is worried about setting a dangerous— is worried about setting a dangerous precedent. they're donned— dangerous precedent. they're worried-inquiries- dangerous precedent. they're worried inquiries are worried that if inquiries are added— worried that if inquiries are adoned ao— worried that if inquiries are allowed to access the private wnaaednn— allowed to access the private whatsapp conversations of government— whatsapp conversations of government ministers , it could government ministers, it could dnnade— government ministers, it could dnnade indo— government ministers, it could intrude into the— government ministers, it could intrude into the privacy of the dyes— intrude into the privacy of the dies on— intrude into the privacy of the lives of ordinary— intrude into the privacy of the lives of ordinary civil servants and— lives of ordinary civil servants and officials— lives of ordinary civil servants and officials and— lives of ordinary civil servants and officials and cabinet ministers— and officials and cabinet ministers themselves . and it

ministers themselves. and it eoadd— ministers themselves. and it eoadd aeo— ministers themselves. and it could also undermine the concept of eoueedve — could also undermine the concept of collective responsibility, nnden— of collective responsibility, nnden de— of collective responsibility, which is essentially the only way— which is essentially the only way on— which is essentially the only way our government can run. so that— way our government can run. so and dose— way our government can run. so and dose ae— way our government can run. so that those are the _ way our government can run. so that those are the two options. ddnen— that those are the two options. ddnen onene — that those are the two options. either there is— that those are the two options. either there is a— that those are the two options. either there is a cover up, onenes— either there is a cover up, anene-e a— either there is a cover up, there's a minister who wants eonedndnd— there's a minister who wants eoneandnd ao— there's a minister who wants something to hide, or they're donned— something to hide, or they're worried dangerous worried about a dangerous precedent— worried about a dangerous precedent-set. - worried about a dangerous precedent set. worried about a dangerous. precedent-set. so just precedent being set. so just help— precedent being set. so just help understand that boris help us understand that boris johnson, as over this johnson, as he turned over this stuff and stuff to the cabinet office and it's cabinet office refusing stuff to the cabinet office and it':pass cabinet office refusing stuff to the cabinet office and it':pass it|binet office refusing stuff to the cabinet office and it':pass it oniet office refusing stuff to the cabinet office and it':pass it on so. well,'efusing stuff to the cabinet office and it':pass it on so. well, yes,ing stuff to the cabinet office and it':pass it on so. well, yes, but to pass it on so. well, yes, but onene— to pass it on so. well, yes, but onene de— to pass it on so. well, yes, but onene do a— to pass it on so. well, yes, but there is a little— to pass it on so. well, yes, but there is a little bit— to pass it on so. well, yes, but there is a little bit of- there is a little bit of a caveat— there is a little bit of a caeat to— there is a little bit of a caveat to that- there is a little bit of a caveat to that which has come out— caveat to that which has come out tn— caveat to that which has come out tn tnto— caveat to that which has come out in this wodge_ caveat to that which has come out in this wodge of information the out in this wodge of information tne cattnet— out in this wodge of information the cabinet office— out in this wodge of information the cabinet office submitted to the cabinet office submitted to tne-tnto— the cabinet office submitted to the this afternoon. boris the press this afternoon. boris tennocn— the press this afternoon. boris johnson-handed- the press this afternoon. boris. johnson-handed-text johnson has handed over his text messages whatsapp, cetera, messages whatsapp, et cetera, and— messages whatsapp, et cetera, and added— messages whatsapp, et cetera, and aged and— messages whatsapp, et cetera, and urged and the cabinet office to nand— and urged and the cabinet office to nand tt— and urged and the cabinet office to hand it over,— and urged and the cabinet office to hand it over, which was a bit of to hand it over, which was a bit otldnenade— to hand it over, which was a bit of grenade chucked under rishi of a grenade chucked under rishi sonat— of a grenade chucked under rishi sanat noaoe— of a grenade chucked under rishi sunak house, if— of a grenade chucked under rishi sunak house, if you like, tecaoe— sunak house, if you like, because boris- sunak house, if you like, because boris johnson obviously is because boris johnson obviously to oaytnd— because boris johnson obviously to oaytndtnat— because boris johnson obviously is saying that it's— because boris johnson obviously is saying that it's not me. it's not— is saying that it's not me. it's not me— is saying that it's not me. it's not me. there's— is saying that it's not me. it's not me. there's nothing, nothing tnat— not me. there's nothing, nothing tnat .— not me. there's nothing, nothing tnat . don-t— not me. there's nothing, nothing that i don't want— not me. there's nothing, nothing that i don't want to— not me. there's nothing, nothing that i don't want to be seen. if tnene-o— that i don't want to be seen. if there's anything— that i don't want to be seen. if there's anything that doesn't want— there's anything that doesn't want-te— there's anything that doesn't want-be seen.— there's anything that doesn't want be seen. it's the want to be seen. it's the content— want to be seen. it's the current prime- want to be seen. it's the current prime minister who's tnytnd— current prime minister who's tnytng to— current prime minister who's tnytng to cover— current prime minister who's trying to cover it— current prime minister who's trying to cover it up. that odd— trying to cover it up. that odd, to— trying to cover it up. that said, it's emerged this afternoon— said, it's emerged this afternoon has afternoon that boris johnson has onty— afternoon that boris johnson has onty-onen— afternoon that boris johnson has onty-onen nto— afternoon that boris johnson has only over his whatsapp only handed over his whatsapp and-neooadeo— only handed over his whatsapp and messages from may 20th, and text messages from may 20th,

21 and text messages from may 20th, on onnaod— and text messages from may 20th, on onnaod and— and text messages from may 20th, 21 onwards and everything else is 21 onwards and everything else to on— 21 onwards and everything else to on no— 21 onwards and everything else to on no dd— 21 onwards and everything else is on his old phone , which the is on his old phone, which the cattnet— is on his old phone, which the cabinet office— is on his old phone, which the cabinet office claim is still in his possession. _ cabinet office claim is still in his possession. either that or he his possession. either that or ne doeon-t— his possession. either that or he doesn't have— his possession. either that or he doesn't have it anymore. for nnatenen— he doesn't have it anymore. for whatever reason,— he doesn't have it anymore. for whatever reason, so he hasn't teen— whatever reason, so he hasn't teen dntte— whatever reason, so he hasn't teen dntte ao— whatever reason, so he hasn't been quite as open and honest as too— been quite as open and honest as too ted— been quite as open and honest as too ted to— been quite as open and honest as too ted to no— been quite as open and honest as he's led to us believe. can i ast— he's led to us believe. can i ask a— he's led to us believe. can i ask a natty— he's led to us believe. can i ask a really schoolgirl question? if they're so worried about some of this stuff, why wouldn't they just delete it? well that seems very, very odd. and it it does seem quite extraordinary— and it it does seem quite extraordinary now , now that extraordinary now, now that given— extraordinary now, now that gnen non— extraordinary now, now that given how many problems some oat— given how many problems some oont ot— given how many problems some sort of government by whatsapp has sort of government by whatsapp nao dot— sort of government by whatsapp has got politicians— sort of government by whatsapp has got politicians into this way— has got politicians into this nay tnat— has got politicians into this way that politicians now have of toot— way that politicians now have of just communicating with each otnen— just communicating with each otnen deny— just communicating with each other very casually over nnatonpp— other very casually over whatsapp messages and not going tnnondn— whatsapp messages and not going tnnondn tne— whatsapp messages and not going through the correct— whatsapp messages and not going through the correct channels has got tnen— through the correct channels has got tnen tn— through the correct channels has got them in trouble before. so it got them in trouble before. so ttldntte— got them in trouble before. so it quite surprising that they it is quite surprising that they tnat— it is quite surprising that they tnat tney— it is quite surprising that they that they have— it is quite surprising that they that they have continued to conduct— conduct themselves like this all the conduct themselves like this all tne—tnto- conduct themselves like this all tne—tnto oadal conduct themselves like this alli tne—tnto oaga . the way through this this saga. neat.— the way through this this saga. neat. tne— the way through this this saga. neat. we got— the way through this this saga. yeah, i've got to _ the way through this this saga. yeah, i've got to say— the way through this this saga. yeah, i've got to say as- the way through this this saga. yeah, i've got to say as well, i'll bring in. gary all of i'll bring you in. gary all of this very to me this seems very odd to me because we've been dilly dallying for knows because we've been dilly dallj long, for knows because we've been dilly dalljlong, determining knows because we've been dilly dalljlong, determining evenivs because we've been dilly dalljlong, determining even the how long, determining even the scope of this inquiry has taken absolutely ages. so to me, surely have defined

surely you would have defined right. this is right. this is what's in this is what's scope what's out of scope before you've kicked off. so the you've kicked it all off. so the fact that now you've started, you've got the ball rolling a little bit and now you're going, whoa, you know, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, that's bit of that's a little bit out of scope. not happy this. scope. i'm not happy with this. it seems a little bit schoolboy error to me and i don't have a huge of faith. actually huge amount of faith. actually this at already this is where we're at already at stage. i'm not sure that at this stage. i'm not sure that i this process. what do i trust this process. what do you it all? well i think you make it all? well i think the idea of trusting process, given what we've been through over or 5 years, is over the last 4 or 5 years, is probably a in itself. i probably a joke in itself. i mean, every single process that tnto— this government has been noted— this government has been involved in— this government has been involved in has- this government has been involved in has gone which way? nest— involved in has gone which way? nest so— involved in has gone which way? nest so .— involved in has gone which way? west so i think— involved in has gone which way? west so i think fact this is west so i think the fact this is aneottonatte— west so i think the fact this is questionable all— west so i think the fact this is questionable all and there's tntndo— questionable all and there's tntndo tetnd— questionable all and there's things being the whatsapp, things being on the whatsapp, you things being on the whatsapp, yon—at- things being on the whatsapp, yon—at to| you know, we're looking at is nnatonpn— you know, we're looking at is dynamite-.- you know, we're looking at is nnatonpn-. tnel you know, we're looking at is whatsapp-. the is whatsapp messages. the fact is we whatsapp messages. the fact is neoan— nttn- whatsapp messages. the fact is we_saw with our. whatsapp messages. the fact is. we_saw with our own we saw what we saw with our own eyeo. — we saw what we saw with our own eyeo. ihedrd — we saw what we saw with our own eyeo. ihedrd -ne - we saw what we saw with our own eyes. - heard -we heard - eyes. we heard what we heard nttn— eyes. we heard what we heard nttn on— eyes. we heard what we heard nttn nn— eyes. we heard what we heard with our own ears— eyes. we heard what we heard with our own ears that covid ttaoco— with our own ears that covid ttaoco nao— with our own ears that covid fiasco was was— with our own ears that covid fiasco was was managed dtoaotnonoty— fiasco was was managed disastrously by the government non— disastrously by the government non day— disastrously by the government non day one— disastrously by the government non day .— disastrously by the government from day one. i would imagine tnene-tt— from day one. i would imagine tnene-tt te— from day one. i would imagine there'll be messages there with very— there'll be messages there with some very pertinent things said about— some very pertinent things said about pecpte— some very pertinent things said about people like— some very pertinent things said about people like matt hancock, for about people like matt hancock, ton notace— about people like matt hancock, for instance, and— about people like matt hancock, for instance, and his handling of for instance, and his handling ot—secnetany- for instance, and his handling of_secretary role.

of the health secretary role tone— of the health secretary role tone-ne— of the health secretary role long he resigned. when long before he resigned. when the long before he resigned. when tne nntttc— long before he resigned. when the public was— long before he resigned. when the public was saying, what the nett— the public was saying, what the ten to— the public was saying, what the ten to tnto— the public was saying, what the hell is this man— the public was saying, what the hell is this man still doing in the hell is this man still doing in tne job?— hell is this man still doing in tne job? nnd— hell is this man still doing in the job? and think a lot of the job? and i think a lot of pecnte— the job? and i think a lot of people suggested and thought that people suggested and thought tnat—nadl people suggested and thought tnat—nad to that maybe the way he had to noon— that maybe the way he had to neotdn tn— that maybe the way he had to neotgn tn tne— that maybe the way he had to resign in the end— that maybe the way he had to resign in the end was rigged, tecaoe— resign in the end was rigged, because what— resign in the end was rigged, because what we— resign in the end was rigged, because what we saw on the tv cameras of him _ because what we saw on the tv cameras of him doing his groping and nnatenen— cameras of him doing his groping and whatever else,— cameras of him doing his groping and whatever else, you know, ontttnd— and whatever else, you know,l ontttnd—tnat smiling at the camera like that nao-oct— smiling at the camera like that nao-oet nn— smiling at the camera like that was set up because they were was all set up because they were toottnd— was all set up because they were toottndla— was all set up because they were toottndla-ont— was all set up because they were looking-a .out from - was all set up because they were looking a out from him. looking for a way out from him. so looking for a way out from him. so .— looking for a way out from him. so . tntnt— looking for a way out from him. so i think-has— looking for a way out from him. so i think has been an so i think this has been an anode— so i think this has been an absolute -from - so i think this has been an. absolute -from .one. absolute fiasco from day one. tn — absolute fiasco from day one. tn -tne— absolute fiasco from day one. i'm the scriptwriters i'm surprised the scriptwriters of i'm surprised the scriptwriters ct ntan— i'm surprised the scriptwriters of alan b'stard _ i'm surprised the scriptwriters of alan b'stard aren't suing. deno— of alan b'stard aren't suing. netto. nnat— of alan b'stard aren't suing. hello. what do— of alan b'stard aren't suing. hello. what do you make to it and — hello. what do you make to it and net.— hello. what do you make to it and non. .— hello. what do you make to it all? well, i think— hello. what do you make to it all? well, i think that- hello. what do you make to it all? well, i think that point that olivia about that olivia makes about government by whatsapp is the key that, key one, which is that, you know, the informal reality of all of this is what probably irks me most because we know that in any workplace you need a bit of wiggle room to be able to be free and frank with each other. that's what creates a good working environment . but if good working environment. but if you know, i don't think that the inquiry is particularly interested in or i can't imagine it shouldn't anyway be interested in a sort of to and fro between ministers about what

they're doing of an evening. if it's not related to the process of lockdown policy or the pandemic. i mean, i'm as interested in i think, to the press. and then that would be interested in i think, to the press. thed then that would be interested in i think, to the press. the circus that would be interested in i think, to the press. the circus would ould be interested in i think, to the press. the circus would begin; where the circus would begin. nett— where the circus would begin. nett, pennapo. — where the circus would begin. well, perhaps. �*" well, perhaps. but but if this is if the inquiry is serious, it will focus on the things that are serious. and if, you know, if those kind of serious conversations were being had in a informal, unprofessional a very informal, unprofessional , unguarded way on whatsapp , , unguarded way on whatsapp, then, you know, it sucks to be then, you know, it sucks to be the politicians that were doing that. their fault. but, that. that's their fault. but, you know, this point, whether you know, at this point, whether it's the hancock it's from the matt hancock whatsapp links anything else, whatsapp links or anything else, i'm mind we should i'm of a mind that we should force whole lot to be made force the whole lot to be made publicly available every inch of it and that we can decide what's important and what's not. because gary raised the you know, the question of trust . and know, the question of trust. and i think from the get go, not many of us had much trust. you know, definitely in the government. inquiry government. but in this inquiry itself, the main itself, because the main questions about, you know, the things that you've on things that you've covered on this things that gb this show, the things that gb news might interested news viewers might be interested in, whether not lockdown

in, like whether or not lockdown policy worked, did more harm policy is worked, did more harm than latter stages. than good in the latter stages. what the actual of what were the actual details of the which elderly people the way in which elderly people were discussed and policy were discussed and that policy was discussed? what kind of whether they the proper whether they did the proper weighing between the harms of weighing up between the harms of closing down society from kids to sociability to the economy and everything else with the you know, the science that they were being told there was a real use and abuse of science. and i feel very sorry for a lot of the scientists that had to work with politicians across the pandemic. none of that is probably going to great scrutiny that to get the great scrutiny that it needs most. kind of it needs it most. it kind of seems still boil to down who seems to still boil to down who is it, a party? did they cake, blah, blah, blah? and i think for of that's not the for most of us, that's not the important that mattered to important thing that mattered to our lives in that in that those dystopian for 3 or 4 or five years, i saw a suggestion today. olivia when i first saw it, i ttonett— olivia when i first saw it, i tncndnt, n0,— olivia when i first saw it, i thought, no, that's a bit ridiculous.— thought, no, that's a bit ridiculous. then i thought ridiculous. and then i thought about— ridiculous. and then i thought atontla— ridiculous. and then i thought about.a.more- ridiculous. and then i thought about a more and about it a bit more and i tnondnt— about it a bit more and i thought actually it could be done— thought actually it could be quite sensible.— thought actually it could be quite sensible. well, it was a onddeotton— quite sensible. well, it was a suggestion made that actually nont— suggestion made that actually ttont—nnttl suggestion made that actuallyi ttont—nntt tne

rishi sunak could now pull the entre— rishi sunak could now pull the entne-tndnny— rishi sunak could now pull the entire-inquiry and- rishi sunak could now pull the entire inquiry and say, entire covid inquiry and say, retent— entire covid inquiry and say, ttdntldetttnd— entire covid inquiry and say, right, getting the right, i'm getting rid of the note— right, i'm getting rid of the nnote—oo- whole because it's so convoluted. - whole because it's so convoluted. long convoluted. it's really long ntnded— convoluted. it's really long ntnded-dotnd- winded now. it's going to cost a notane.— winded now. it's going to cost a tonne. tt-o— winded now. it's going to cost a fortune. it's going— winded now. it's going to cost a fortune. it's going to rumble fortune. it's going to rumble to on— fortune. it's going to rumble to on yeao— fortune. it's going to rumble for on years. by— fortune. it's going to rumble for on years. by the time we get to-etectton— for on years. by the time we get to-election, we're- for on years. by the time we get to election, we're not to the next election, we're not ready— to the next election, we're not ready gong— to the next election, we're not ready done to— to the next election, we're not really going to have any outcomes from so you'll go outcomes from it. so you'll go tnto— outcomes from it. so you'll go tnto yon— outcomes from it. so you'll go tnto yon next— outcomes from it. so you'll go into your next election not ready— into your next election not neatty-nno - into your next election not really-who did. into your next election not really who did what into your next election not- really-who did what and really knowing who did what and all really knowing who did what and add—tne- really knowing who did what and att—tne nnotel all the rest of it can the whole tntnd— all the rest of it can the whole tntnd tate— all the rest of it can the whole thing take the— all the rest of it can the whole thing take the flack go, thing take the flack and go, dean— thing take the flack and go, dean tnt— thing take the flack and go, yeah, but-what. thing take the flack and go, yeah, but-what ii thing take the flack and go,- yeah, but-what i want? yeah, but you know what i want? i yeah, but you know what i want? tnant— yeah, but you know what i want? tnant to— yeah, but you know what i want? tnant to tnot— yeah, but you know what i want? i want to just be— yeah, but you know what i want? i want to just be a— yeah, but you know what i want? i want to just be a bit more adie— i want to just be a bit more agtte ttntd— i want to just be a bit more agile fluid and— i want to just be a bit more agile fluid and answers agile fluid and get answers antctty— agile fluid and get answers antctty and— agile fluid and get answers quickly and just set off like nnat— quickly and just set off like nnat-done- quickly and just set off like. what-donelsweden, quickly and just set off like- what-donelsweden, in what they've done in sweden, in sneden. — what they've done in sweden, in sneden.—nnat,- what they've done in sweden, in sweden._what, 800j sweden. and i think, what, 800 pages— sweden. and i think, what, 800 paaeoltntnt— sweden. and i think, what, 800 paaeoltntnt nao— sweden. and i think, what, 800 pages think was what they came pages i think was what they came out pages i think was what they came oat-toot— pages i think was what they came oat-toot tnen— pages i think was what they came out took them something outwith. it took them something like out with. it took them something ttte ze— outwith. it took them something like 24 months. _ outwith. it took them something like 24 months. they've got the answers-want.- like 24 months. they've got the answers want. can't we answers that they want. can't we do oonetntnd— answers that they want. can't we do something like— answers that they want. can't we do something like that here? nett— do something like that here? nett. .— do something like that here? nett. . can— do something like that here? well, i can definitely- do something like that here? well, i can definitely .thel do something like that here? well, in:an definitely .thel do something like that here? well, in it. definitely .the| do something like that here? well, in it. iiefinitely-thel do something like that here? well, in it. i mean, ly-thel do something like that here? logic in it. i mean, as ella says, there are there are plenty of who are of conservative mps who are quite worried that the covid inquiry, that inquiry, the framework that the covid being conducted covid inquiry is being conducted within, wrong within, is simply the wrong framework. the questions that's asking it might be out asking it might be turned out to be it might be the wrong questions. it might be the wrong questions. it might be about, you should be all about, you know, should we locked down sooner? did we have locked down sooner? did did people die because we didn't lock november the lock down on the november the 14th november 14th rather than november the

21st, more 21st, rather than more fundamental what fundamental questions about what were risks, what were the were the risks, what were the risks to cancer patients, for example, diagnosed example, who weren't diagnosed early of lockdowns? all early because of lockdowns? all of wider questions about of these wider questions about whether these draconian lockdowns, draconian lockdowns, repeated, draconian lockdowns, repeated, draconian lockdowns, were the right response at all. they don't seem to feature in the framework. so thatis to feature in the framework. so that is what many conservative mps feel and probably what quite a few people in the country feel too. so i can see the logic to that argument politically, it would be impossible already there are claims that there's a cover up simply because rishi sunak for whatever reason, doesn't to hand over all doesn't want to hand over all these unredacted whatsapp messages. decides throw messages. if he decides to throw the altogether, the inquiry out altogether, there would be uproar and it would into labour's hands. would play into labour's hands. you going to throw it you know, i'm going to throw it open— you know, i'm going to throw it open to— you know, i'm going to throw it open to yon.— you know, i'm going to throw it open to you. would you get tnnotned— open to you. would you get involved in— open to you. would you get involved in politics in this conntnye— involved in politics in this country? because it seems that actnatty—yon- country? because it seems that actnatty—yonldet actually the second you do get tnto— actually the second you do get tnto-otnce,— actually the second you do get into-office, any- actually the second you do get into office, any notion into public office, any notion of into public office, any notion ot-done,- into public office, any notion of-gone, whether. into public office, any notion of gone, whether it's of privacy is gone, whether it's ntnnte— of privacy is gone, whether it's one minute people of privacy is gone, whether it's- one minute people _that one minute people demanded that you one minute people demanded that yon-onen— one minute people demanded that yon-cnen yon— one minute people demanded that yon-cnen yon tax— one minute people demanded that you over your tax returns, you turn over your tax returns, nnetnen— whether it's the next minute yoe— whether it's the next minute you've-inquiries- whether it's the next minute you've inquiries this, you've got inquiries into this, tnat— you've got inquiries into this, tnat and— you've got inquiries into this, tnat and tne— you've got inquiries into this, that and the other. you've got you've got inquiries into this, th.throw the other. you've got you've got inquiries into this, th.throw opentther. you've got you've got inquiries into this, th.throw open all r. you've got you've got inquiries into this, th.throw open all of’ou've got you've got inquiries into this, th.throw open all of your; got to throw open all of your nnatoappo— to throw open all of your whatsapps irrespective of nnetnen—

whatsapps irrespective of whether. not - whatsapps irrespective of whether not some it's whether or not some of it's netenant— whether or not some of it's relevant. not. _ whether or not some of it's relevant-not. it's- whether or not some of it's relevant not. it's enough to relevant or not. it's enough to put— relevant or not. it's enough to pat-ott— relevant or not. it's enough to put-off politics— relevant or not. it's enough to put-off politics for- relevant or not. it's enough to put off politics for life , put me off politics for life, you— put me off politics for life, you ntgnt— put me off politics for life, you ntant oay— put me off politics for life, you might say. that's lucky for everybody— you might say. that's lucky for everybody-would - you might say. that's lucky for. everybody-wouldlput everybody else. but would it put you-vou— everybody else. but would it put yon-yon tntnt— everybody else. but would it put you-you think it's- everybody else. but would it put you you think it's fair? you off, do you think it's fair? all you off, do you think it's fair? on tnto— you off, do you think it's fair? all this transparency, the denando— all this transparency, the demands for— all this transparency, the demands for absolutely enenytntnd— demands for absolutely everything you everything. and what do you tntnt— everything. and what do you tntnt to— everything. and what do you think to suggestion of think to that suggestion of oacttnd— think to that suggestion of oacttng tne— think to that suggestion of sacking the whole inquiry think to that suggestion of sackstartingwhole inquiry think to that suggestion of sackstarting again inquiry think to that suggestion of sackstarting again inquimuch and starting again on a much ttdnten— and starting again on a much ttdnten .— and starting again on a much tighter , smaller,— and starting again on a much tighter , smaller, quicker scale tighter, smaller, quicker scale 7 tighter, smaller, quicker scale enontd— tighter, smaller, quicker scale enontd yon— tighter, smaller, quicker scale ? would you support that or not? gb ? would you support that or not? on vteno— ? would you support that or not? on vteno on— ? would you support that or not? gb views gb news— ? would you support that or not? gb views gb news .com is how you can gb views gb news .com is how you det— gb views gb news .com is how you det nodd— gb views gb news .com is how you get notd cne— gb views gb news .com is how you can get hold me. i'm— gb views gb news .com is how you can get hold me. i'm fascinated to near— can get hold me. i'm fascinated to near yon— can get hold me. i'm fascinated to hear your thoughts on that atten— to hear your thoughts on that atten tne— to hear your thoughts on that after the break,— to hear your thoughts on that after the break, i'll have some of after the break, i'll have some otleononoeo— after the break, i'll have some of-responses, but- after the break, i'll have some of-responses, but i- after the break, i'll have some of responses, but i also of your responses, but i also want— of your responses, but i also want to— of your responses, but i also want to aot— of your responses, but i also want to ask you— of your responses, but i also want to ask you this. do you tntnt— want to ask you this. do you tntnt tnat— want to ask you this. do you think that poverty is the parent of think that poverty is the parent ot-on— think that poverty is the parent ot-on do— think that poverty is the parent ot-on do yon— think that poverty is the parent of-or do you think- of crime or do you think it's noed— of crime or do you think it's noed ao— of crime or do you think it's used as.excuse- of crime or do you think it's used as.excuse ?- of crime or do you think it's used as excuse ? your thoughts used as an excuse? your thoughts and— used as an excuse? your thoughts and to— used as an excuse? your thoughts and ttt oee— used as an excuse? your thoughts and ttt yon—

radio. hello radio. - . hello there. tadto. — i hello there. i'm radio. hello there. i'm michelle - hello there. i'm michelle oenteny— - hello there. i'm michelle oenteny nttn— - hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with you _ hello there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tontgnt. — dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. ella— dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. ella whelan the tonight. ella whelan is the antnon— tonight. ella whelan is the antnon sne— tonight. ella whelan is the author. she joins me as does oany— author. she joins me as does gary—a— author. she joins me as does. oany—a-nonten gary trowsdale, a youth worker and— gary trowsdale, a youth worker and eec— gary trowsdale, a youth worker and exec director— gary trowsdale, a youth worker and exec director of the spirits of and exec director of the spirits ct tendon— and exec director of the spirits of london foundation. we were

tnot— of london foundation. we were tnot taot— of london foundation. we were just fast forwarding to a debate tnat— just fast forwarding to a debate tnat nee— just fast forwarding to a debate that we're going— just fast forwarding to a debate that we're going to have towards the that we're going to have towards tne end— that we're going to have towards tne end ot— that we're going to have towards tne end ct tne— that we're going to have towards the end of the programme about dtnenotty— the end of the programme about diversity, whether— the end of the programme about diversity, whether or not dtnenotty— diversity, whether or not diversity, the _ diversity, whether or not diversity, the quotas and all tne— diversity, the quotas and all tne neot— diversity, the quotas and all tne neot ot— diversity, the quotas and all the rest of it— diversity, the quotas and all the rest of it are— diversity, the quotas and all the rest of it are going a ttttte— the rest of it are going a little -far,- the rest of it are going a little far, especially little bit too far, especially nnen—tn- little bit too far, especially when—in thingsj little bit too far, especially- when_in things like when you have it in things like the when you have it in things like tne-nnen— when you have it in things like the-when they're- when you have it in things like the when they're not going the raf, when they're not going to tne— the raf, when they're not going to tie nntte— the raf, when they're not going to hire white pilots . the raf, when they're not going to hire white pilots. i mean natty,— to hire white pilots. i mean natty-a— to hire white pilots. i mean natty-a tnt- to hire white pilots. i mean really, a bit pathetic really, i find it a bit pathetic if really, i find it a bit pathetic tt tn— really, i find it a bit pathetic if i'm honest.— really, i find it a bit pathetic if i'm honest. i— really, i find it a bit pathetic if i'm honest. i think just hire tne— if i'm honest. i think just hire tne-nenoon— if i'm honest. i think just hire the-person for-job. the best person for the job and i the best person for the job and tnontd— the best person for the job and tncntdldeenty— the best person for the job and i would deeply offended if i would be deeply offended if anyone— i would be deeply offended if anyone-ne— i would be deeply offended if anyone me forward somewhere anyone put me forward somewhere panty— anyone put me forward somewhere onnety tecaoe— anyone put me forward somewhere onnety tecanoe-a— anyone put me forward somewhere purely because a female. purely because i'm a female. and nnat—att- purely because i'm a female. and nnat—att ntttl what do you make to it all will be contng— what do you make to it all will be contng to— what do you make to it all will be coming to that— what do you make to it all will be coming to that later on in tne— be coming to that later on in tne programme— be coming to that later on in the programme about this covid nanny.— the programme about this covid nanny-odd— the programme about this covid tngntny-oatd att- the programme about this covid inquiry.-said all of- inquiry. raymond said all of tnto— inquiry. raymond said all of tnto-notatty— inquiry. raymond said all of this probably identify this will probably identify the poten— this will probably identify the plotters-boris- this will probably identify the plotters-boris ,- this will probably identify the plotters boris , but i'll plotters against boris, but i'll gne— plotters against boris, but i'll gne yon— plotters against boris, but i'll gne you two. — plotters against boris, but i'll give you two. actually, i ononect— give you two. actually, i onooect tt— give you two. actually, i suspect it might be a little bit tnteneottng— suspect it might be a little bit interesting. it— suspect it might be a little bit interesting. it could be popcorn tne—to— interesting. it could be popcorn tne—to oee- interesting. it could be popcorn time,_to see just. time, couldn't it, to see just exactty— time, couldn't it, to see just exactty-tney- time, couldn't it, to see just exactly -they . do, i time, couldn't it, to see just exactly they do, think exactly what they all do, think of exactly what they all do, think ot-otnen — exactly what they all do, think of-other. maggie- exactly what they all do, think of other. maggie says of each other. maggie says tney-ne— of each other. maggie says they're-terrified- of each other. maggie says they're terrified that they're all terrified that revelations _ revelations from boris boris's messages would— revelations from boris boris's messages would prove that tttety— messages would prove that tttety. nono— messages would prove that likely. boris is— messages would prove that likely. boris is once again the tatt— likely. boris is once again the tatt gny. — likely. boris is once again the fall guy- they're— likely. boris is once again the fall guy. they're covering their onnoao—y nonl fall guy. they're covering their. own—says. how come own backs, steve says. how come it own backs, steve says. how come tt tnot— own backs, steve says. how come tt tnot takeo— own backs, steve says. how come tt tnot tateo oo— own backs, steve says. how come it just takes so long— own backs, steve says. how come it just takes so long for this country— it just takes so long for this country undertake country to undertake any tngntneo— country to undertake any inquiries when so many countries nave— inquiries when so many countries nave aneady— inquiries when so many countries have already done— inquiries when so many countries have already done them ? lots of have already done them? lots of you—

have already done them? lots of yon-att— have already done them? lots of yon-an ot— have already done them? lots of yon-an ot tnto— have already done them? lots of you-all of this is- have already done them? lots of you all of this is just a you saying all of this is just a nttcn— you saying all of this is just a nttcn nnnt— you saying all of this is just a nttcn nnnt .— you saying all of this is just a witch hunt . let's— you saying all of this is just a witch hunt . let's don't forget, witch limit. let's don't forget, by witch hunt. let's don't forget, ty tne— witch hunt. let's don't forget, ty tne nay,— witch hunt. let's don't forget, ty tne nay, ot— witch hunt. let's don't forget, by the way, of course, boris has naooed— by the way, of course, boris has naooediotntt— by the way, of course, boris has passed-stuff over. - by the way, of course, boris has passed stuff over. it's the passed his stuff over. it's the neo— passed his stuff over. it's the ttteo ot— passed his stuff over. it's the likes of rishi _ passed his stuff over. it's the likes of rishi et— passed his stuff over. it's the likes of rishi et cetera that not— likes of rishi et cetera that are not following that through. they— are not following that through. tney oay— are not following that through. tney oay tt-o— are not following that through. they say it's with— are not following that through. they say it's with regret. this tegat— they say it's with regret. this legal challenge.— they say it's with regret. this legal challenge. i suspect it ntgnt— legal challenge. i suspect it ntgnt te— legal challenge. i suspect it ntgnt be a— legal challenge. i suspect it might be a little bit of a dtttenent— might be a little bit of a different sentiment. and i'll let different sentiment. and i'll tet yon— different sentiment. and i'll tet you figure— different sentiment. and i'll let you figure you let you figure out what you nateo— let you figure out what you nateoltt— let you figure out what you makes it anyway this makes of it all. anyway this doeo— makes of it all. anyway this doeo-nannen— makes of it all. anyway this does happen often . when does not happen often. when i sit does not happen often. when i ott nece— does not happen often. when i ott nene gutte— does not happen often. when i sit here quite a— does not happen often. when i sit here quite a kwarteng anctent— sit here quite a kwarteng ancient greek— sit here quite a kwarteng ancient greek philosophers. oon-t— ancient greek philosophers. oon-tnony,— ancient greek philosophers. don't worry, you've not missed tune.— don't worry, you've not missed tnne. tnto— don't worry, you've not missed tnne. no to— don't worry, you've not missed tune. this is still— don't worry, you've not missed tune. this is still me. this is odd— tune. this is still me. this is still dewbs&_ tune. this is still me. this is still dewbs& co.— tune. this is still me. this is still dewbs& co. it's not antttctat— still dewbs& co. it's not artificial intelligence. but tnene— artificial intelligence. but tnene nao— artificial intelligence. but there was a— artificial intelligence. but there was a quote that i've been pondenng— there was a quote that i've been pondenng a— there was a quote that i've been pondenng a tot— there was a quote that i've been pondering a lot recently. i don-t— pondering a lot recently. i dont know— pondering a lot recently. i don't know why, but it popped up somewhere. aristotle once said tnat— somewhere. aristotle once said tnat poverty— somewhere. aristotle once said tnat poneny to— somewhere. aristotle once said that poverty is the— somewhere. aristotle once said that poverty is the parent of cnne— that poverty is the parent of and— that poverty is the parent of crime and revolution, and i tonnd— crime and revolution, and i tonnd tt— crime and revolution, and i found it quite— crime and revolution, and i found it quite interesting tecaoe— found it quite interesting because i've— found it quite interesting because i've spoken a lot necentty. — because i've spoken a lot recently. we've - because i've spoken a lot recently. we've seen a lot of otntt— recently. we've seen a lot of otntt go— recently. we've seen a lot of otntt go on— recently. we've seen a lot of otntt go on tn— recently. we've seen a lot of stuff go on in in— recently. we've seen a lot of stuff go on in in the press and beyond— stuff go on in in the press and teyond atont— stuff go on in in the press and beyond about crime and about ot— beyond about crime and about ot tne— beyond about crime and about some of the change is when it to— some of the change is when it to tne— some of the change is when it comes to the kind— some of the change is when it comes to the kind of crimes that decide— comes to the kind of crimes that people ae— comes to the kind of crimes that people are committing . and i people are committing. and i tntnt— people are committing. and i tntnt-tnat— people are committing. and i think-that-andl think about that quote, and i tttnt— think about that quote, and i that, to— think about that quote, and i that, to tt— think about that quote, and i think, is it true?— think about that quote, and i think, is it true? is there any tantn— think, is it true? is there any tantn tn— think, is it true? is there any truth in that,— think, is it true? is there any truth in that, that poverty actnatty— truth in that, that poverty actnatty to—

truth in that, that poverty actually is the— truth in that, that poverty actually is the parent of crime, or actually is the parent of crime, on oeoote— actually is the parent of crime, or are people using life circumstances- or are people using life circumstances sometimes as taotcatty— circumstances sometimes as taotcatty an— circumstances sometimes as basically an excuse to just tenanc— basically an excuse to just behave badly?— basically an excuse to just behave badly? your thoughts, oanye— behave badly? your thoughts, canyenett— behave badly? your thoughts, canye nett .— behave badly? your thoughts, gary? well i mean, firstly, ntcnet,— gary? well i mean, firstly, michel, you're— gary? well i mean, firstly, michel, you're quoting aristotle and ne— michel, you're quoting aristotle and ne dtdn-t— michel, you're quoting aristotle and he didn't say— michel, you're quoting aristotle and he didn't say poverty was the and he didn't say poverty was tne patent. — and he didn't say poverty was the parent. he— and he didn't say poverty was the parent. ti; t: e and he didn't say poverty was the parent. ti; z e the parent. he said it was the mother of crime, which sounds like he was a bit of a sexist in his time. parents, i will stand connected,— his time. parents, i will stand corrected, though,— his time. parents, i will stand corrected, though, if- " e parents, i will stand corrected, though, if i'm wrong. poverty— corrected, though, if i'm wrong. novetty to— corrected, though, if i'm wrong. novetty to tne— corrected, though, if i'm wrong. poverty is the mother— corrected, though, if i'm wrong. poverty is the mother of- corrected, though, if i'm wrong. poverty is the mother of crime. that's that's the quote. that's that's that's the quote. i frankly, i think poverty i quite frankly, i think poverty is father is is the mother the father is probably the custodian and the guardian. quotes in greek onttoooony.— guardian. quotes in greek philosophy-first. guardian. quotes in greek. philosophy. -first time philosophy. for the first time in philosophy. for the first time tn-tve— philosophy. for the first time tn-t-ve got- philosophy. for the first time tn-t-ve got tt- philosophy. for the first time in i've got it wrong. in my life, i've got it wrong. i cant— in my life, i've got it wrong. i can't believe— in my life, i've got it wrong. i can't believe that. ennis can't believe that. well, you onontd— can't believe that. well, you should have rung boris. he should have rung boris. he should of. would have should of. he would have definitely you the definitely given you the right quote. there go. anyway, quote. there you go. anyway, cany— quote. there you go. anyway, canny-toot,— quote. there you go. anyway, carry-look, it's- quote. there you go. anyway, carry-look, it's the. carry on. no, look, it's the notnen — carry on. no, look, it's the mother. the— carry on. no, look, it's the mother. carry on. no, look, it's the- mother. the father, the parent, the guardian, whatever of crime. anywhere civilised world, the guardian, whatever of crime. anyvtthea civilised world, the guardian, whatever of crime. anyvtthe through civilised world, the guardian, whatever of crime. anyvtthe through the ised world, the guardian, whatever of crime. anyvtthe through the centuries,, over the through the centuries, wherever is crime and wherever there is crime and there's poverty, there's or poverty and inequality , then poverty and inequality, then then crime is prevalent. it doesn't b tend to be as prevalent in in richer communities, although of course

it is done in different ways. i mean, you talk here about the cost of living crisis . i don't cost of living crisis. i don't see there is a cost of living crisis. i think we are deep crisis. i think we are knee deep in a cost of greed crisis. and i think that's what's driving an in a cost of greed crisis. and i think lot:'s what's driving an in a cost of greed crisis. and i think lot ofwhat's driving an in a cost of greed crisis. and i think lot of the t's driving an in a cost of greed crisis. and i think lot of the problems an in a cost of greed crisis. and i think lot of the problems that awful lot of the problems that society at the moment. society is facing at the moment. so do you not feel that there are -where people i so do you not feel that there. are -where people will are occasions where people will atnoot— are occasions where people will atooecoe-— are occasions where people will atootecoe- .- are occasions where people will almost excuse , you know, almost try and excuse, you know, oh, almost try and excuse, you know, on yean— almost try and excuse, you know, on, yean ne-o— almost try and excuse, you know, oh, yeah, he's doing this or too— oh, yeah, he's doing this or too ont— oh, yeah, he's doing this or he's out robbing— oh, yeah, he's doing this or he's out robbing that or nnateven— he's out robbing that or whatever, but- he's out robbing that or whatever, but it's because i don-t— whatever, but it's because i dont know— whatever, but it's because i don't know how— whatever, but it's because i don't know how they get don't know how they can't get a job don't know how they can't get a tot neve— don't know how they can't get a on ten on— don't know how they can't get a on nene on tne— don't know how they can't get a job here or the youth clubs have gone— job here or the youth clubs have gone tnene— job here or the youth clubs have gone tnene on— job here or the youth clubs have gone there or do— job here or the youth clubs have gone there or do you not think it gone there or do you not think tt actnatty— gone there or do you not think it actually just— gone there or do you not think it actually just people deooenate— it actually just people desperate to - it actually just people desperate to excuse their own tad— desperate to excuse their own bad choices? _ desperate to excuse their own bad choices? no,— desperate to excuse their own bad choices? of» ctzt" e bad choices? no, i don't. i don't don't think that's so. don't i don't think that's so. there will be element of there will be an element of that. i mean, there's no there's no no, no debate there. there will small element of that, will be a small element of that, but small element of but it is a small element of that. we look at that. i mean, if we look at behaviour and talking about the cost of greed crisis rather than the cost of living, you know, look at retail profits that look at the retail profits that are made are being post made at the moment. energy, moment. we've got the energy, extortion that's what it is. extortion and that's what it is. certainly country. certainly in this country. they're people and it's they're robbing people and it's the poor that are suffering

most. many poor most. there's so many poor people you you people now. you know, you go into the toughest estates in inner cities. as i said to you earlier, we were in earlier, we were we were up in hull our hope hull during one of our hope hacks.i hull during one of our hope hacks. i run the hope collective, which do hope hacks 120 from hull in 120 young people from hull in a local theatre. and these are kids coming from some of the toughest, affected toughest, most poverty affected areas in the in hull. and, areas in in the in hull. and, you know, some of the stories they're the they're telling about the hardships they're telling about the hardsithrough. so i think we're going through. so i think we're in we're in a greed in we're in a cost of greed crisis. we need to at that. crisis. we need to look at that. we need to think about the behaviour governments. we behaviour of governments. we talk behaviour of talk about the behaviour of citizens when i've never known i'm 63 old, be 64 i'm 63 years old, i'll be 64 this known this year. i've never known a time the government and the time when the government and the whole political estate was so fraught behaviour fraught with bad behaviour and it's it's norm. so now it's like it's norm. so now we're fingers at we're wagging our fingers at kids, our fingers we're wagging our fingers at kiipeople. our fingers we're wagging our fingers at kiipeople. it's our fingers we're wagging our fingers at kiipeople. it's top our fingers we're wagging our fingers at kiipeople. it's top down, ingers we're wagging our fingers at kiipeople. it's top down, toptrs at people. it's top down, top down culture. culture normally is do you think? well, to is what do you think? well, to a very inaccurately— ctzt “

always in circumstances of their own choosing. ' t: own choosing. and i think the you know, the question really here is whether or not people have agency and the decisions they make . and i think there is they make. and i think there is a bit of a problem in the way that some of my comrades on the left, you know, talk about working class poverty and crime in that there is this kind of very patronising approach to people which says we will excuse your bad behaviour. people which says we will excuse your bad behaviour . yeah. or your bad behaviour. yeah. or youn your bad behaviour. yeah. or your, you know, your actions . your, you know, your actions. and there's obviously a question of whether a lot of crime is actually immoral. i think can actually immoral. i think we can make distinction between , you make a distinction between, you know, a for know, someone robbing a bike for a jolly someone robbing a jolly with someone robbing dinner for their kids. you know, there are shades of there are there are shades of grey in all of this. but you know, there is kind desire know, there is a kind of desire to forgive by saying you to forgive that by saying you couldn't really help it because all that, you know, you were just driven by poverty. and we know that make decisions know that people make decisions in bad all the time. you in good or bad all the time. you know, gary's also said that obviously a lot of the kind of criminality i might be criminality that i might be interested in also takes place interested in also takes place in rich households. you in very rich households. you know, it's not say know, it's not to say that simply having means that simply having money means that

you virtuous person. in you become a virtuous person. in fact, the time, quite fact, a lot of the time, quite the opposite. but i suppose in relation you know, there's relation to, you know, there's some stories milling around this week about, for example, mass taking stuff off the shelves and putting them back behind closed doors so people won't nick doors so that people won't nick them. is you know, there them. this is you know, there has issue for a while. has been an issue for a while. we were talking about this before we came that, you before we came on that, you know, example, baby formula before we came on that, you knotbeen example, baby formula before we came on that, you knotbeen securityt, baby formula before we came on that, you knotbeen security taggedformula before we came on that, you knotbeen security tagged fornula before we came on that, you knotbeen security tagged for asa has been security tagged for as long as i can remember. and, you know, things like cheese know, even things like cheese have tagged in have been security tagged in shops. there is, think, shops. and so there is, i think, an question to ask. an interesting question to ask. is the fact that people can't is it the fact that people can't afford that is a afford things? and that is a question i think most question that i think most people should interested in. people should be interested in. with of living crisis with the cost of living crisis and that or is and food banks, are that or is there something else going on with breakdown of the with a kind of breakdown of the social contract in that you know, i think i'm from a working social contract in that you know,family( i'm from a working social contract in that you know,family and from a working social contract in that you know,family and irom a working social contract in that you know,family and i think working social contract in that you know,family and i think iivorking social contract in that you know,family and i think i was ng class family and i think i was always up to understand always brought up to understand that stealing wrong, not that stealing was wrong, not just but because, you just immorally, but because, you know, was would be bad for know, it was it would be bad for you you got caught. and you if you got caught. and i think thing that worries me think the thing that worries me most is that there are lots of young people out there now who

kind care if they don't kind of don't care if they don't care if they caught. i'm care if they get caught. i'm thinking of the mizzi phenomenon care if they get caught. i'm thin kind of the mizzi phenomenon care if they get caught. i'm thin kind ofthe mizzi phenomenon care if they get caught. i'm thin kind of don'tizzi phenomenon care if they get caught. i'm thin kind of don'tizzi pigetymenon care if they get caught. i'm thin kind of don'tizzi piget me�*ion and kind of don't even get me started. but there's, know, started. but there's, you know, what what it about what are these what is it about people turning to crime that they have lost all sense of, not just but the fact just their pride, but the fact that anything to lose? that they have anything to lose? i think that's something that we should i remember when should address. i remember when i should address. i remember when t-teenagen— should address. i remember when t-teenagen and— should address. i remember when i-teenager and iwasn't- i was a teenager and i wasn't neceooanty— i was a teenager and i wasn't neceooanty on— i was a teenager and i wasn't necessarily on the— i was a teenager and i wasn't necessarily on the right side of the necessarily on the right side of tne tracto. — necessarily on the right side of tne tracto. .— necessarily on the right side of the tracks. i must— necessarily on the right side of the tracks. i must confess that i the tracks. i must confess that t-nttn— the tracks. i must confess that t-nttnlnot— the tracks. i must confess that i -with l not great - the tracks. i must confess that i with not great crowd i was in with a not great crowd and— i was in with a not great crowd and .— i was in with a not great crowd and . noed— i was in with a not great crowd and . noed to— i was in with a not great crowd and i used to go— i was in with a not great crowd and i used to go to— i was in with a not great crowd and i used to go to this one pantcntan— and i used to go to this one particular pub,— and i used to go to this one particular pub, i— and i used to go to this one particular pub, i won't name it, tnt— particular pub, i won't name it, tntlnao— particular pub, i won't name it, butlwasihessle- particular pub, i won't name it, but was hessle road. if but it was on hessle road. if anyone— but it was on hessle road. if anyone-familiar- but it was on hessle road. if anyone familiar hull, but it was on hessle road. if any(they familiar hull, but it was on hessle road. if any(they were liar hull, but it was on hessle road. if any(they were guys hull, but it was on hessle road. if any(they were guys thatiull, but it was on hessle road. if any(they were guys that used to and they were guys that used to coneland— and they were guys that used to coneland tney— and they were guys that used to come and they were come in and they were shoplifters_ come in and they were shoplifters and they to shoplifters and they used to oteat— shoplifters and they used to oteat to— shoplifters and they used to steal to order— shoplifters and they used to steal to order .— shoplifters and they used to steal to order . so like people steal to order. so like people nontd— steal to order. so like people would-sitting— steal to order. so like people would sitting there, they'd would be sitting there, they'd be gneneo— would be sitting there, they'd be gneneo ot— would be sitting there, they'd be queues of people. are you get me some cheese,— be queues of people. are you get me some cheese, me some me some cheese, get me some cottee— me some cheese, get me some coffee, whatever,— me some cheese, get me some coffee, whatever, and coffee, whatever, whatever. and it coffee, whatever, whatever. and tt-a— coffee, whatever, whatever. and tt-a tnade. — coffee, whatever, whatever. and tt-a tnade. tt- coffee, whatever, whatever. and it - a trade. it just - it was just a trade. it just vent— it was just a trade. it just went on— it was just a trade. it just went on and— it was just a trade. it just went on and it- it was just a trade. it just went on and it wasn't because geode— went on and it wasn't because people contdn-t— went on and it wasn't because people couldn't afford a cheese or people couldn't afford a cheese on a cottee. — people couldn't afford a cheese or a coffee. it— people couldn't afford a cheese or a coffee. it was— people couldn't afford a cheese or a coffee. it was because actnatty— or a coffee. it was because actnatty tney— or a coffee. it was because actually they wanted to spend tnen— actually they wanted to spend tnen taot— actually they wanted to spend their last few— actually they wanted to spend their last few quid on a few ntnto— their last few quid on a few ntnto .— their last few quid on a few otnto , a— their last few quid on a few pints , a couple— their last few quid on a few pints , a couple of pints or pints, a couple of pints or nnateven— pints, a couple of pints or whatever, as— pints, a couple of pints or whatever, as opposed having whatever, as opposed to having to-tt— whatever, as opposed to having to-ttltne— whatever, as opposed to having to-it.the cheese- whatever, as opposed to having to-it.the cheese or. whatever, as opposed to having

to it the cheese or the to spend it on the cheese or the cottee— to spend it on the cheese or the coffee because _ to spend it on the cheese or the coffee because they could get tnat— coffee because they could get tnat non — coffee because they could get that from this— coffee because they could get that from this fella a fraction of that from this fella a fraction ot-coot. — that from this fella a fraction ot-coot. oo— that from this fella a fraction ot-coot. so .— that from this fella a fraction of-cost. so i-thatl of the cost. so i think that otntt—nnd- of the cost. so i think that stuff—kind of. of the cost. so i think that. stuff—kind of gone of the cost. so i think that- stuff_kind of gone on stuff has always kind of gone on and— stuff has always kind of gone on and .— stuff has always kind of gone on and . tntnt— stuff has always kind of gone on and i think that— stuff has always kind of gone on and i think that a— stuff has always kind of gone on and i think that a lot of decode,— and i think that a lot of peoplev tt— and i think that a lot of people, if they are struggling, you people, if they are struggling, yon tnon— people, if they are struggling, yon tnonloay— people, if they are struggling, you know, say about baby you know, you say about baby tonnnta— you know, you say about baby formula-like- you know, you say about baby formula-like that,. formula and stuff like that, tnene— formula and stuff like that, there-awful- formula and stuff like that, there-awful.of- formula and stuff like that, there awful of help. there is an awful lot of help. now:— there is an awful lot of help. don, .— there is an awful lot of help. now, i remember— there is an awful lot of help. now, i remember when i was younger— now, i remember when i was younger struggle now, i remember when i was. younger—struggle for younger and we did struggle for money— younger and we did struggle for money-dtdn-t- younger and we did struggle for money didn't seem to be money and they didn't seem to be all money and they didn't seem to be ad tnto— money and they didn't seem to be ad tnto nnd— money and they didn't seem to be all this kind of— money and they didn't seem to be all this kind of food— money and they didn't seem to be all this kind of food banks. t hey— all this kind of food banks. tney yon— all this kind of food banks. they you know,— all this kind of food banks. they you know, you get the like the they you know, you get the like tne-otan— they you know, you get the like the-start things- they you know, you get the like the start things where the healthy start things where you the healthy start things where yon—cand- the healthy start things where yon—cad forl the healthy start things where - you—card for baby you get money on a card for baby tonnnta— you get money on a card for baby tonnnta and— you get money on a card for baby formula and free— you get money on a card for baby formula and free vitamins and tney— formula and free vitamins and tney-oo— formula and free vitamins and tney-oo-none- formula and free vitamins andi they-so-more help. they seem so much more help. don. — they seem so much more help. ton. .to— they seem so much more help. ton. .to ten— they seem so much more help. ton. .to tot a— they seem so much more help. now. .is for a whole- they seem so much more help.- now. .is for a whole another now. this is for a whole another debate. but i do have to say that you're not food banks aren't in many, many food banks. you're allowed give you're not allowed to give out baby formula. that's a that's a whole nother because there's an obsession with breastfeeding and baby formula is like you may as well cocaine your kid. well give cocaine to your kid. it's of demonised to such it's kind of demonised to such an extent. for inviting an extent. that's for inviting me michelle and i'll me on again. michelle and i'll talk about that for an talk to you about that for an houn talk to you about that for an hour. but there is i think there is also a kind of, you know, there is unfortunate only we there is a unfortunate only we were kind of were talking about kind of breakdown of politics in the last section with the covid inquiry. been inquiry. there has been a breakdown in class

breakdown in in working class politics and people being engaged . you know, i engaged in society. you know, i think mostly because there's nothing to engage people and politics pretty dire at the politics is pretty dire at the moment, but it means that stuff starts to break down the way people understand their life starts to break down. people starts to break down. people start lose but start to not just lose hope, but start to not just lose hope, but start to not just lose hope, but start to stop kind of caring. i think. and i think that does then a space where then open up a space where people do things that they wouldn't normally done. and wouldn't have normally done. and now sounding like kind now i'm sounding like i'm kind of izing or patronising of apology izing or patronising people, have to ask people, but you do have to ask the why is it if there the question, why is it if there is higher levels of criminality motty, it that that's motty, why is it that that's going just because going on? it's not just because there's suddenly a huge more amounts of poverty, because as you said, michelle, all that has always been or for a long time been a feature of the british political landscape. but what is the thing that's on? the new thing that's going on? i think i respect i a bit think and i respect i know a bit about the work that you do, and i hugely respect the work that you especially engaging you do, especially engaging people are would people that are what i would call the wrong side call often on the wrong side of the tracks for various reasons. i've got a huge amount of neonect— i've got a huge amount of respect-but- i've got a huge amount of respect-but i- i've got a huge amount of respect-but i do. respect for you, but i do

ode— respect for you, but i do wonder, because i do think that tn tne,— wonder, because i do think that even in life,.your_ even in life, if your circumstances are really hard, if circumstances are really hard, tt—yon- circumstances are really hard, tt—yon tnonl circumstances are really hard,| if_you know, the if your parents, you know, the nneeto— if your parents, you know, the nneeto-cone— if your parents, you know, the wheels-come-if- if your parents, you know, the wheels come if you are wheels have come off, if you are in wheels have come off, if you are tnltncty— wheels have come off, if you are in ltricky situation, _ wheels have come off, if you are inltricky situation, i- wheels have come off, if you are in tricky situation, i do in a tricky situation, i do tetteve— in a tricky situation, i do believe that— in a tricky situation, i do believe that the thing that no tate— believe that the thing that no one can take away from you is yon— one can take away from you is yon yon— one can take away from you is yon yon cnotce— one can take away from you is yon yon cnotce .— one can take away from you is your your choice , your, you know your your choice, your, you know , yon— your your choice, your, you know , you your,— your your choice, your, you know you yon yon— your your choice, your, you know , you your, you know, no , i'm , you your, you know, no, i'm not— , you your, you know, no, i'm not gotng— , you your, you know, no, i'm not gotng to— , you your, you know, no, i'm not gotng to do— , you your, you know, no, i'm not going to do that. i'm not going— not going to do that. i'm not gotng to— not going to do that. i'm not gotng to te— not going to do that. i'm not going to be with— not going to do that. i'm not going to be with you. i'm not going— going to be with you. i'm not gotng to— going to be with you. i'm not gotng to mate— going to be with you. i'm not going to make that decision. i ntt— going to make that decision. i nttt natt— going to make that decision. i will walk away— going to make that decision. i will walk away from this. i will natt— will walk away from this. i will natt anay— will walk away from this. i will walk away from _ will walk away from this. i will walk away from it.— will walk away from this. i will walk away from it. that is onety— walk away from it. that is onety tne— walk away from it. that is surely the kind- walk away from it. that is surely the kind of the last tntng— surely the kind of the last tntng tnat— surely the kind of the last thing that we— surely the kind of the last thing that we have for ourselves,— thing that we have for ourselves, and thing that we have for- ourselves,-and do you ourselves, isn't it? and do you tntnt— ourselves, isn't it? and do you tntnt-enongn— ourselves, isn't it? and do you. think-enough-people think that enough young people in-situations_ think that enough young people in situations make the in those situations make the ntgnt— in those situations make the right themselves? right choices for themselves? nett— right choices for themselves? wat, ne— right choices for themselves? well, we talk— right choices for themselves? well, we talk-we- right choices for themselves? well, we talk we talk well, we talk about we talk aton— well, we talk about we talk about other— well, we talk about we talk about other things that we can dtocnoo— about other things that we can dtocnoo tn— about other things that we can discuss in the— about other things that we can discuss in the future age. but i patt— discuss in the future age. but i part at— discuss in the future age. but i part at a— discuss in the future age. but i was part of a shoplifting gang when was kid, and that when i was a kid, and that wasn't really a life choice that i would have chosen to make for myself. i living rough myself. but i was living rough in used to be known as in what used to be known as cardboard city, where the imax in what used to be known as ca now ard city, where the imax in what used to be known as ca now 14 city, where the imax in what used to be known as ca now 14 years where the imax in what used to be known as ca now 14 years whensote imax in what used to be known as ca now 14 years whertso just iax in what used to be known as ca now 14 years whertso just to: is now 14 years old. so just to put some food inside myself, i started shoplifting older started shoplifting with older boys that knew what they were doing tend to get us doing and didn't tend to get us caught as i did. it

caught as much as i did. but it was was it was a lifestyle was it was it was a lifestyle choice. i needed. needed to choice. i needed. i needed to eat. i had come through a very traumatic experience with my parents messy parents and a very messy divorce. was divorce. my father was a policeman. i was apparent cut out for a life in the police, didn't quite work out that way. and ended living rough. and and i ended up living rough. and nearly years as as nearly two years as a as a teenagen nearly two years as a as a teenager. so yeah, i was involved in making decisions that i wouldn't chosen to that i wouldn't have chosen to have made. but then were have made. but then you were atoo— have made. but then you were atoo cteany— have made. but then you were also clearly involved- : but then you were also clearly involved in making the also clearly involved in making tne ntgnt— also clearly involved in making the right decisions choices also clearly involved in making thewell. iecisions choices also clearly involved in making thewell. iecisiongtzte choices also clearly involved in making thewell. iecision git tic/g ices also clearly involved in making thewell. iecision git tic/g "s also clearly involved in making thewell. iecision git tic/g " as well. well, i got lucky in as much as i, i, i had a, i had a child at quite a young age and that, that, that that created a situation where i had to grow up very, very quickly at 19. and yeah, i myself right back on yeah, i got myself right back on track. do and track. but i do understand and i do empathise totally with these kids that are now living in in the areas of the country. the poorer areas of the country. and it's a big, big issue in london in london because, of course, in london because, of course, in london we've not just got poverty on scale as poverty on a scale as high as any major in london, any other major city in london, sorry, europe now, but we've sorry, in europe now, but we've got inequalities. i mean, gentrification of single gentrification of every single poor area in london where that immediately creates a drug

market. you know, there's a lot of things that aren't really thought through here by the aduh thought through here by the adult establishment because they're where they're creating a terrain where actually actually actually crime is actually almost more norm now. almost more like the norm now. yeah. i don't want to sound yeah. and i don't want to sound natty— yeah. and i don't want to sound really heartless,— yeah. and i don't want to sound really heartless, but i do think actnatty— really heartless, but i do think actnatty one— really heartless, but i do think actually one of— really heartless, but i do think actually one of the things that ceateo— actually one of the things that creates a community is creates a drug community is young— creates a drug community is young pimple— creates a drug community is young people fast cash creates a drug community is- young people -fast cash . young people wanting fast cash. so young people wanting fast cash. so tney— young people wanting fast cash. so they ott— young people wanting fast cash. so they sit there, _ young people wanting fast cash. so they sit there, they— young people wanting fast cash. so they sit there, they realise, you know what, i can cycle around chucking these bags of whatever here, there and everywhere. make fortune everywhere. i can make a fortune or get a job and i have to or i can get a job and i have to graft really quite hard and get a fraction of the money. i don't know if i'm being harsh, you quyst know if i'm being harsh, you guys, you don't beat around the bush home. i'm sure you'll bush at home. i'm sure you'll tell if think i am, i'm tell me if you think i am, i'm going to take a quick break. when i come back, i'll pick back up perhaps on that last conversation. it conversation. i find it fascinating, but i also want to ask obsession, ask as well, it's obsession, quyst ask as well, it's obsession, guys, with every guys, with diversity. every where. you where. do you applaud it? do you go? yes or are we getting to the point now when you got people like the saying in, like the raf saying pack it in, hiring a male pilots, you hiring a white male pilots, you know, surely. don't you just want pilots the one the want pilots the best one for the

job? it matter if

mornings on gb news is the people's channel. britain's news .channel hi people's channel. britain's news . channel hi there. i'm michelle oenteny— . channel hi there. i'm michelle oenteny nttn— . channel hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you— . channel hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till- hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tontgnt. — dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. ella— dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. int" dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. ella whelan is the author alongside me as is gary trowsdale, a youth worker and exec director of the spirit of london foundation. we've just been having what i found quite a fascinating conversation . i fascinating conversation. i could have done a whole hour on that one. actually young that one. actually about young people , about adversity . is it people, about adversity. is it possible to overcome it? are there jobs out there for people you were just saying to me that you don't think there are a lot ofjobs you don't think there are a lot of jobs out there for young people? no, there's not a lot tnene-o— people? no, there's not a lot tnene-o not— people? no, there's not a lot there's not an— people? no, there's not a lot there's not an awful- 7 no, there's not a lot there's not an awful lot of cnotce— there's not an awful lot of cnotce ton— there's not an awful lot of choice for young people. yes, tney— choice for young people. yes, tney tnene— choice for young people. yes, they there are _ choice for young people. yes, they there are jobs in maybe tttttng— they there are jobs in maybe filling shelves— they there are jobs in maybe filling shelves the co—op or filling shelves in the co—op or nnateven — filling shelves in the co—op or whatever. - isn't - filling shelves in the co—op or whatever. isn't what's whatever. this isn't what's nong— whatever. this isn't what's wrong-tne.- whatever. this isn't what's wrong-life. it's- wrong with a life. it's not neceooanty— wrong with a life. it's not necessarily a lifestyle. but a young— necessarily a lifestyle. but a young peon— necessarily a lifestyle. but a young person being encouraged young person is being encouraged to totton— young person is being encouraged to totton. nnd— young person is being encouraged to follow. and you— young person is being encouraged to follow. and you said oonetntng— to follow. and you said something which to follow. and you said something-which need something earlier which i need to—and— something earlier which i need to—and tnat-o- something earlier which i need to_and that's that. to pick up on, and that's that tneoe— to pick up on, and that's that tneoe ttdo— to pick up on, and that's that these kids-quite- to pick up on, and that's that these kids quite happy these kids are quite happy nnnntng— these kids are quite happy. running—drugs. running around selling drugs. tnat-o— running around selling drugs. that's experience of that's not the experience of yontn—tnat-ol

youth workers. and that's not tne—tne- youth workers. and that's not tne—tne nayl youth workers. and that's noti the _the way, of the experience, by the way, of tne— the experience, by the way, of tne notce— the experience, by the way, of the police either. _ the experience, by the way, of the police either. a lot of the ttdo— the police either. a lot of the ttdo get— the police either. a lot of the kids get dragged in because tnene-o—tol kids get dragged in becausei there's—to be there's not really seen to be any— there's not really seen to be any-cottono— there's not really seen to be any-options for- there's not really seen to be any options for them. many any other options for them. many of any other options for them. many ot tneoe— any other options for them. many ot tneoe-ane— any other options for them. many of these are putting food of these kids are putting food on tnen— of these kids are putting food on their parents— of these kids are putting food on their parents table. you tnon— on their parents table. you know, parents— on their parents table. you know, parents have fallen know, parents that have fallen tnto— know, parents that have fallen tnto-tad— know, parents that have fallen into bad problems with into really bad problems with debt— into really bad problems with dent—to- into really bad problems with dent—to do- into really bad problems withi dent—to do-ty debt and arrears to do that by nonttng—to- debt and arrears to do that byi working—to quote working at the co—op, to quote yon— working at the co—op, to quote yon-nett— working at the co—op, to quote your-well, yeah,- your example. well, yeah, oooottty. — your example. well, yeah,| possibly. -there'd possibly. actually, there'd be more putting food on more consistent putting food on the table working at the the table and working at the co—op because they wouldn't have the table and working at the co—riskiecause they wouldn't have the table and working at the co—risk ofause they wouldn't have the table and working at the co—risk of being �*iey wouldn't have the table and working at the co—risk of being shoved ldn't have the table and working at the co—risk of being shoved ini't have the risk of being shoved in prison long by doing prison for however long by doing drugs and all the of it. drugs and all the rest of it. and just think a bit and i just think there's a bit of going massively off of a we're going massively off topic and i do apologise because we're about about we're about to talk about diversity coming to it. diversity and i'm coming to it. i just think there's this snobbery jobs. used snobbery about jobs. i used to work checkout. sure work on a checkout. i'm sure you've done all all kind of menial and i don't menial jobs and it's not i don't know. i don't know what's happened they happened with society. they don't to do those kind of don't want to do those kind of jobs like your fruit picking or your shelf and all. your shelf stacking and all. they why don't they don't. why? why don't people it? i people want to do it? well, i think partly i mean, i don't think partly i mean, i don't think should glamorise a lot think we should glamorise a lot of are nobody would of these jobs are nobody would say that know your say that you know spending your day fruit picking is an exciting

or enjoyable know pain or enjoyable or you know pain free spend your day. but free way to spend your day. but the point is, life used- free way to spend your day. but the point is, life used to- : , can but the point is, life used to be aton— the point is, life used to be atont-tnan- the point is, life used to be about than work. so you'd about more than work. so you'd nave— about more than work. so you'd have lcommunity_ about more than work. so you'd. have lcommunity-you'd have a community at home, you'd nave—nave- have a community at home, you'd have—have family,- have maybe you'd have family, tnene-d— have maybe you'd have family, tnene-d-ot— have maybe you'd have family, there'd-of aspects- have maybe you'd have family, there'd of aspects of there'd be lots of aspects of yon— there'd be lots of aspects of yon-tnat— there'd be lots of aspects of your that working a in your life that working a in gnoteo— your life that working a in gnoteo-tot- your life that working a in quotes-job like. your life that working a in quotes job like that quotes rubbish job like that nttcn— quotes rubbish job like that which didn't— quotes rubbish job like that which didn't give much, which didn't give you much, you tnon— which didn't give you much, you know, tt— which didn't give you much, you know, it wasn't— which didn't give you much, you know, it wasn't your passion and not— know, it wasn't your passion and naon-t—yon— know, it wasn't your passion and naon-t—yon nene- wasn't something you were tnteneoted— wasn't something you were. interested _work. interested in. it was just work. non— interested in. it was just work. you wag,— interested in. it was just work. you want, yon— interested in. it was just work. you went, you clocked in, you ctocted —yon i you went, you clocked in, you. clocked _you went clocked out, and then you went and—me.— clocked out, and then you went and—me. |_ clocked out, and then you went and-life. | think- and lived your life. i think today,— and lived your life. i think today, unfortunately, the living,— today, unfortunately, the living the— today, unfortunately, the living, the .bit- today, unfortunately, the- living, the - bit. become today, unfortunately, the liv decreased. bit become today, unfortunately, the liv decreased. est become today, unfortunately, the liv decreased. est partlyecome today, unfortunately, the liv decreased. est partly because so decreased. est partly because we're more isolated— so decreased. est partly because we're more isolated from each other,— we're more isolated from each other, panty— we're more isolated from each other, partly because people have—moneyl have less spending money and time—to— have less spending money and time—to do- have less spending money and time _to do things. have less spending money and time to do things to time to be able to do things to actually— time to be able to do things to actually enjoy— time to be able to do things to actually enjoy their and time to be able to do things to athinky enjoy their and time to be able to do things to athink we've/ their and time to be able to do things to athink we've moved, and time to be able to do things to athink we've moved, you and time to be able to do things to athink we've moved, you know, i think we've moved, you know, particular— i think we've moved, you know, particular-of— i think we've moved, you know, particular of middle class particular kind of middle class phenomenon— particular kind of middle class phenomenon work has to phenomenon that your work has to be, you— phenomenon that your work has to be, you know,— phenomenon that your work has to be, you know, au— phenomenon that your work has to be, you know, all encompassing phenomenon that your work has to be, yo you. )w, all encompassing phenomenon that your work has to be, yo you. havel encompassing phenomenon that your work has to be, yo you. have you:ompassing phenomenon that your work has to be, yoyou. have you everassing phenomenon that your work has to be, yo you. have you ever been] phenomenon that your work has to be, yo you. have you ever been to about you. have you ever been to about you. have you ever been to .-.._ about you. have you ever been to .-.. person?— about you. have you ever been to a-in person? first- about you. have you ever been to a in person? first thing a party in person? first thing people—is- a party in person? first thing people—u do- a party in person? first thing people is do what a party in person? first thing. people—is do what do people say to you is do what do you— people say to you is do what do you do?— people say to you is do what do you do? and— people say to you is do what do you do? and it's— people say to you is do what do you do? and it's like, i think i flunk— you do? and it's like, i think i think moo-o— you do? and it's like, i think i think that's i'm— you do? and it's like, i think i think that's i'm a— you do? and it's like, i think i think that's i'm a fruit picker, moo— think that's i'm a fruit picker, that guy,— think that's i'm a fruit picker, that guy, o— think that's i'm a fruit picker, that guy, a fruit— think that's i'm a fruit picker, that guy, a fruit picker. yeah. you— that guy, a fruit picker. yeah. you know,— that guy, a fruit picker. yeah. you know, that's— that guy, a fruit picker. yeah. you know, that's rather than you know, that's and rather than with— you know, that's and rather than with-wroug— you know, that's and rather than with -wrong with - you know, that's and rather than with wrong with that, with that not wrong with that, more— with that not wrong with that, more ion-o— with that not wrong with that, there isn't anything wrong with moo.— there isn't anything wrong with thou—pooptol that. but i think most people wont— that. but i think most people wont-noos— that. but i think most people want-liveslmean- want their lives to mean something,— want their lives to mean something, want their lives to moon—i- something, want their lives to moon—i thinkl

something, want their lives to - mean—i think gary mean something. and i think gary oououou— mean something. and i think gary touched-question- mean something. and i think gary touched question of, you touched on the question of, you know,— touched on the question of, you kuou—oul know, giving young people an aspirations— know, giving young people an aspirations-in- know, giving young people an aspirations in work, aspirations not just in work, buo— aspirations not just in work, out-know,- aspirations not just in work, but know, defining what but in that know, defining what thou— but in that know, defining what their noos— but in that know, defining what their lives are— but in that know, defining what their lives are about. maybe iro— their lives are about. maybe it's education,— their lives are about. maybe it's education, maybe it's a skin,— it's education, maybe it's a skin, maybe— it's education, maybe it's a skill, maybe it's- it's education, maybe it's a skill, maybe it's the fact that they—choos- - skill, maybe it's the fact that they—choos- ll skill, maybe it's the fact that. they—chess. i don't they love playing chess. i don't know.— they love playing chess. i don't know. out— they love playing chess. i don't know. but .— they love playing chess. i don't know. but i think— they love playing chess. i don't know. but i think have to know. but i think we have to hove— know. but i think we have to have conversations more have those conversations more with—ore— have those conversations more with _ are groomed i have those conversations more. with—are groomed by with young kids are groomed by society. — with young kids are groomed by society. the— with young kids are groomed by society. the-you- with young kids are groomed by society. the kids, you know, the big not and buy the big brands do not go and buy the clear channel advertising spaces when they're in the richest parts they're parts of town, when they're bringing out, bringing the new products out, they the poorest part of they go to the poorest part of town because the kids are they go to the poorest part of tow poor:ause the kids are they go to the poorest part of tow poor kids. the kids are they go to the poorest part of tow poor kids. they kids are they go to the poorest part of tow poor kids. they buy

ouooo— ethnic minority and female ouooo .— ethnic minority and female puooo . i— ethnic minority and female pilots. i find— ethnic minority and female pilots . i find all ethnic minority and female pilots. i find all this ethnic minority and female pilots . i find all this bonkers, pilots. i find all this bonkers, eno— pilots. i find all this bonkers, uuo .— pilots. i find all this bonkers, uuo . i— pilots. i find all this bonkers, uuo . i really— pilots. i find all this bonkers, ella . i really do.— pilots. i find all this bonkers, ella . i really do. i think it's ella. i really do. i think it's ludicrous— ella. i really do. i think it's lullorouo .— ella. i really do. i think it's ludicrous . just— ella. i really do. i think it's ludicrous . just get the best ludicrous. just get the best person— ludicrous. just get the best psou lor— ludicrous. just get the best person for the— ludicrous. just get the best person for the job. surely what am person for the job. surely what up r— person for the job. surely what up r mlsslug— person for the job. surely what am i missing? _ person for the job. surely what am i missing? \:::r person for the job. surely what am i missing ? \:::r ”c: am i missing? no, you're not missing anything. and probably the most ludicrous part of it is that the person at the sort of focal point of all of this who was sending these emails asking to, you know, get rid of all the useless white male was useless white male pilots, was white and male. so it's kind of some kind of weird self—flagellation going on there. and it's actually quite interesting when you look at the reports what the reports of what was the discussion in these discussion going on in these emails. it was this i think emails. is it was this i think it's an insight into what happens a lot of institutions happens at a lot of institutions or companies at moment, or companies at the moment, which this kind of which is there's this kind of mad to not that mad scramble to say not that they were actually politically or morally invested in the idea that more women or more black women or more black men or whatever would be a good thing. but it was all just about the ticking box, the quotas . so the ticking box, the quotas. so the emails kind of said, don't emails kind of said, we don't have enough numbers. can we get together from together any more women from from this , you know, group of

from this, you know, group of people who've applied? you know, it really it was really it was really it was really instrumental. it was really cynical. and i think that that tells you a lot about the way in which these diversity drives take place, that it's not actually about any kind of sense that a woman would bring anything different to the role of a pilot than a man would. but it's just about saying it looks better if we have some skirt in there. and it really as there. and it really is as insulting think insulting as that. i think particularly for the women who would those roles if would be put in those roles if they knew that they were only being hired ahead of male colleague because of the fact that they were a woman. that is the kind of sexism, you know, in waiting that there is some kind of difference between the two of us our skill level or us in our skill level or something that should be consigned to history. we surely don't anymore, do we? don't think that anymore, do we? do you think that do you sit rlroro— do you think that do you sit there-think,— do you think that do you sit there think, actually what there and think, actually what you— there and think, actually what you-ls— there and think, actually what you-ls o— there and think, actually what you-is a woman- there and think, actually what you is a woman in this job you need is a woman in this job urol— you need is a woman in this job rlror lop— you need is a woman in this job rlror job or— you need is a woman in this job that job or whatever? i'm i'm rm— that job or whatever? i'm i'm l'mlbig— that job or whatever? i'm i'm l'mlbig rou— that job or whatever? i'm i'm i'm big fan of diversity. and i'm a big fan of diversity. and i'm a big fan of diversity. and i think diversity is very important. i think

important. but i think this is a joke subject. i mean, quite frankly, who would want get frankly, who would want to get in right about in a fighter plane right about now we're prodding the bear now when we're prodding the bear with a a big stick and the with a with a big stick and the world is completely out of kilter, see too many kilter, i don't see too many people queuing up to be pilots right it does right about now. but it does seem a crazy one. diversity seem like a crazy one. diversity in its place is absolutely right. when it's it's not right. when it's not it's not clearly it isn't here. what's right. when it's not it's not cleplace? sn't here. what's right. when it's not it's not cleplace? it's here. what's right. when it's not it's not cleplace? it's placesa/hat's right. when it's not it's not cleplace? it's places make you its place? it's places make you know, comes to down fairness. know, it comes to down fairness. again, making again, it comes down to making sure we can a balanced sure that we can have a balanced society. you know, unfortunately. well, means unfortunately. well, it means institutional a real, institutional racism is a real, real government might institutional racism is a real, real to government might institutional racism is a real, realto retract government might institutional racism is a real, real to retract that. zrnment might institutional racism is a real, realto retract that. and ent might institutional racism is a real, realto retract that. and playiight like to retract that. and play around reports as to around with race reports as to what did, rewrote it. once what they did, rewrote it. once he got to number 10 downing street. authors got the street. so the authors got the blame for saying that institutional racism didn't belong in the uk when actually that said that wasn't what they said at all. it wasn't issue. so i all. it wasn't an issue. so i think counters institutional think it counters institutional racism. um, you talked about young people getting jobs earlier. over, you earlier. it crosses over, you know, young people with certain surnames for surnames that make, for instance, sound african might find getting find themselves not getting put together short list. it together on a short list. it happens real you've together on a short list. iti happens-real you've hit together on a short list. it- happens-real you've hit on happens you real you've hit on a rosoluorlug— happens you real you've hit on a fascinating point— happens you real you've hit on a fascinating point there. and i worr— fascinating point there. and i your-ro— fascinating point there. and i your-lo ll.- fascinating point there. and i want-to it. he's- want to return to it. he's suylug— want to return to it. he's soylup sory— want to return to it. he's saving gary is- want to return to it. he's saying gary is saying, yes,

llvorslry— saying gary is saying, yes,| diversity _things saying gary is saying, yes,- diversity_things up, diversity to balance things up, to diversity to balance things up, ro—lllo— to stop things like institutional is he institutional racism. is he rlgrrrl— institutional racism. is he pours-you- institutional racism. is he right? you support right? would you support llvorslry— right? would you support diversity-in- right? would you support diversity in those kind diversity drives in those kind of diversity drives in those kind of-,_ diversity drives in those kind or-, os— diversity drives in those kind or-, as you- diversity drives in those kind of-, as you tell- diversity drives in those kind of , as you tell me diversity drives in those kind- of-, as you tell me and of instances, as you tell me and i'll of instances, as you tell me and r-ll-.—

in two. i in two. hello. i in two. i hello there, | lr lus- — hello there, michelle | lr two.— hello there, michelle dewberry looplug— hello there, michelle dewberry looplug you— hello there, michelle dewberry keeping you company till 7:00. rllo— keeping you company till 7:00. rllo wpolou— keeping you company till 7:00. ella whelan is— keeping you company till 7:00. ella whelan is the author olougsllo— ella whelan is the author alongside me,— ella whelan is the author alongside me, as is gary rrouslolo,— alongside me, as is gary trowsdale, the- alongside me, as is gary trowsdale, the youth worker and mogul— trowsdale, the youth worker and megxit director— trowsdale, the youth worker and megxit director of— trowsdale, the youth worker and megxit director of the spirit of loulou— megxit director of the spirit of london foundation. we were rolllug— london foundation. we were talking about— london foundation. we were talking about poverty and crime oorllor— talking about poverty and crime earlier-delia— talking about poverty and crime earlier-delia says- talking about poverty and crime earlier delia says poverty earlier on. delia says poverty is earlier on. delia says poverty ls rho— earlier on. delia says poverty ls rrro porour— earlier on. delia says poverty is the parent of— earlier on. delia says poverty is the parent of crime. when people— is the parent of crime. when people aro— is the parent of crime. when people are desperate, they will sousllor— people are desperate, they will consider especially if consider crime, especially if orrrors— consider crime, especially if others depend— consider crime, especially if others depend on them, she says. i others depend on them, she says. r-n— others depend on them, she says. in oul— others depend on them, she says. run and r-ll— others depend on them, she says. i-72 and i'll be— others depend on them, she says. i 72 and i'll be homeless i am 72 and i'll be homeless oul— i am 72 and i'll be homeless soon and i've— i am 72 and i'll be homeless soon and i've considered crime to soon and i've considered crime ro soro— soon and i've considered crime ro lor— soon and i've considered crime ro for-log— soon and i've considered crime ro for-log .— soon and i've considered crime to care for dog . oh, that to care for my dog. oh, that moles— to care for my dog. oh, that makes-really— to care for my dog. oh, that makes really sad. i hope that makes me really sad. i hope that you are— makes me really sad. i hope that you oloy— makes me really sad. i hope that you are okay with— makes me really sad. i hope that you are okay with that. you got people— you are okay with that. you got people around— you are okay with that. you got people around you— you are okay with that. you got people around you that can supporr— people around you that can supporr you— people around you that can support you, ray says . michelle support you, ray says. michelle rovorry— support you, ray says. michelle rovorry ls— support you, ray says. michelle royorry ls por— support you, ray says. michelle poverty is not necessarily the ol— poverty is not necessarily the cause of-many- poverty is not necessarily the cause of many rich people cause of crime. many rich people slool— cause of crime. many rich people slool ulrlr— cause of crime. many rich people steal with fraudulent claims

wrou— steal with fraudulent claims upon ll— steal with fraudulent claims when it comes— steal with fraudulent claims when it comes to their tax ollolrs— when it comes to their tax allolrs or— when it comes to their tax affairs or tax— when it comes to their tax affairs or tax returns. mark says— affairs or tax returns. mark soys o— affairs or tax returns. mark soys u lol— affairs or tax returns. mark soys o lol or— affairs or tax returns. mark says a lot of what is stolen from— says a lot of what is stolen from shops— says a lot of what is stolen from shops these days, let's be loneso— from shops these days, let's be honest, michelle,— from shops these days, let's be honest, michelle, is drugs and luxurlos— honest, michelle, is drugs and luxurlos .— honest, michelle, is drugs and luxuries . yes.— honest, michelle, is drugs and luxuries . yes. but— honest, michelle, is drugs and luxuries . yes. but i also do luxuries. yes. but i also do rlrlrrl— luxuries. yes. but i also do rlrlul rlror— luxuries. yes. but i also do think that actually things we're just think that actually things we're lusr rulllug— think that actually things we're just talking about things like poly— just talking about things like poly rormulo— just talking about things like baby formula and stuff, i think rlror— baby formula and stuff, i think roar-pollu— baby formula and stuff, i think that being nicked as that stuff is being nicked as well.— that stuff is being nicked as well anyway,— that stuff is being nicked as well. anyway, very briefly, just to _conversation - to finish your conversation olour— to finish your conversation olour-ulror- to finish your conversation about what were you saying, about your what were you saying, you— about your what were you saying, your institutionally— your institutionally racist? loo— your institutionally racist? loo-ro— your institutionally racist? loo-lo lo— your institutionally racist? i've to be honest. you won't i've got to be honest. you won't opprooloro— i've got to be honest. you won't opprooloro mo— i've got to be honest. you won't appreciate me saying this. that rlmo—mo— appreciate me saying this. that rlmo—mo roll- appreciate me saying this. thati time—me rollllittle time does make me roll a little bit— time does make me roll a little up, our— time does make me roll a little up, our l— time does make me roll a little bit, but i think— time does make me roll a little bit, but i think that it gets overused all— bit, but i think that it gets overused all the time. and i pull— overused all the time. and i rlrlul ll— overused all the time. and i think it kind— overused all the time. and i think it kind of— overused all the time. and i think it kind of turns lot of think it kind of turns a lot of people— think it kind of turns a lot of people-l— think it kind of turns a lot of people-l rllul- think it kind of turns a lot of people-i think it- think it kind of turns a lot of people i think it probably people off. i think it probably loos—rover- people off. i think it probably does—never been| does because it's never been resolved. — does because it's never been resolved. aru— does because it's never been resolved. and the- does because it's never been resolved. r: "pp does because it's never been resolved. r: ”at resolved. and the fact that it's still an ongoing problem in the metropolitan for metropolitan police, for instance, probably the instance, who are probably the most police most institute racist police force anywhere, i mean, certainly uk and certainly in the uk and they want to deny even though want to deny it, even though every inquiry that's ever want to deny it, even though every run. inquiry that's ever want to deny it, even though every run. louiseiiry that's ever want to deny it, even though every run. louise caseyit's ever want to deny it, even though every run. louise casey knows r been run. louise casey knows what she's doing. a very, what she's doing. she's a very, very civil service very competent civil service and they still don't want to put their hands up and admit it their hands up and admit that it happens a big, big happens and it causes a big, big problem with the community when they happening and they see that happening and trust you're a young

trust me, if you're a young if you're parent a black you're a parent of a black child, that has to be told, they're talk. remember they're given the talk. remember and is common and this is this is common knowledge. a lot of newsreaders as from the black as well coming from the black community have spoken how community have spoken about how they with their they have to do with their children. they're the talk children. they're given the talk about how they're going be about how they're going to be treated differently go treated differently when they go to than their white to school than their white friends be friends are because they will be stop far, far more stop and search far, far more often. it's all proven. so institutional racism is a big, big that's why big issue. i think that's why it's boring because it's it's got boring because it's never got dealt with you never got dealt with well, you see, i've got two mixed race godchildren and the godchildren and actually the talk it, my best talk as you describe it, my best friend have certainly with friend did have certainly with the older one and i, as a white person, my friends white, their dad andi person, my friends white, their dad and i used to say dad is black, and i used to say to my friend, why you kind dad is black, and i used to say to pre—empted hy you kind dad is black, and i used to say to pre—empted this? why kind dad is black, and i used to say to pre—empted this? why arei dad is black, and i used to say to pre—empted this? why are you of pre—empted this? why are you plourlrrg— of pre—empted this? why are you pluurlug-luro— of pre—empted this? why are you planting-into your— of pre—empted this? why are you planting-into your son's- planting that into your son's mlull— planting that into your son's mind? because— planting that into your son's mind? because that's the sperm— mind? because that's the experience of— mind? because that's the experience of his it's experience of his father. it's por— experience of his father. it's not-experience.- experience of his father. it's not experience. he's a not his experience. he's a uulpuo— not his experience. he's a unique individual that's ourorlug— unique individual that's. entering—his unique individual that's- entering _ his own, entering this world on his own, llul— entering this world on his own, llullro— entering this world on his own, llullro loot. — entering this world on his own, kind-to feet-i- entering this world on his own, kind to feet. i always kind of to feet. and i always found— kind of to feet. and i always found interesting. maybe, found that interesting. maybe, i lop-r— found that interesting. maybe, i lop-r know.— found that interesting. maybe, i don't know. you— found that interesting. maybe, i don't know. you clearly know olour— don't know. you clearly know more about it— don't know. you clearly know more about it than me. you guys, gloo— more about it than me. you guys, glvo-rlouglrs— more about it than me. you guys, glvo-rlouglrs or- more about it than me. you guys, give thoughts at home, give me your thoughts at home, but give me your thoughts at home, our-roll— give me your thoughts at home, but-talk drinks— give me your thoughts at home, but talk drinks and bars, but let's talk drinks and bars, sloll— but let's talk drinks and bars, shall-because— but let's talk drinks and bars, shall-because it- but let's talk drinks and bars,l shall-because it-for shall we? because it worked for sup.— shall we? because it worked for sllp.-uorloo— shall we? because it worked for skip. notice everybody skip. you'll notice everybody trol—

skip. you'll notice everybody trot—los- skip. you'll notice everybody that—he's been. that another mp, he's been suspended— that another mp, he's been suspended .— that another mp, he's been suspended . and one of the suspended. and one of the reasons is allegations about soul— reasons is allegations about souo.l—- reasons is allegations about souo.l— pur- reasons is allegations abouti sexual_. but now reasons is allegations about- sexual_. but now when sexual misconduct. but now when you slur— sexual misconduct. but now when you start listening— sexual misconduct. but now when you start listening to what's loop— you start listening to what's loouou-— you start listening to what's been _on, there's- been going on, there's suggestions- been going on, there's suggestions that a lot of this llul— suggestions that a lot of this llul ol— suggestions that a lot of this was kind of drink fuelled, that ol— was kind of drink fuelled, that of rho— was kind of drink fuelled, that some of the bars— was kind of drink fuelled, that some of the bars in parliament porlrops— some of the bars in parliament porlops mlglrr— some of the bars in parliament perhaps might have been luvolvorl— perhaps might have been involved-step. perhaps might have been. involved.-step away involved. now, if i step away from— involved. now, if i step away from-lu— involved. now, if i step away from-in question- from the guy in question because olvlously— from the guy in question because obviously—provenl obviously nothing's been proven .-aul— obviously nothing's been proven .-aul just— obviously nothing's been proven .-and just make- obviously nothing's been proven .-and just make it. . et cetera. and just make it about— . et cetera. and just make it about-tors— . et cetera. and just make it about-bars in— . et cetera. and just make it about bars in westminster about the bars in westminster uloro— about the bars in westminster ulorolrlrlul— about the bars in westminster where think pretty where i think it's pretty appalling— where i think it's pretty- appalling—start appalling, actually. i'll start ultr— appalling, actually. i'll start lull-r— appalling, actually. i'll start with-i think- appalling, actually. i'll start with-i think it's. with you, ella. i think it's prorry— with you, ella. i think it's pretty appalling that as roopoyors— pretty appalling that as taxpayers, subsidising pretty appalling that as- taxpayers,-subsidising an taxpayers, we are subsidising an actual— taxpayers, we are subsidising an actual-.— taxpayers, we are subsidising an actual. rm— taxpayers, we are subsidising an actual-. i'm not— taxpayers, we are subsidising an actual . i'm not talking actual bar. i'm not talking about— actual bar. i'm not talking about tors— actual bar. i'm not talking about bars at— actual bar. i'm not talking about bars at windows. i'm rolllug— about bars at windows. i'm rolllug-o— about bars at windows. i'm rolllug-o pul- about bars at windows. i'm talking a pub within talking about a pub within compo.— talking about a pub within complex. parliamentary complex. the parliamentary oslolo— complex. the parliamentary estate. .why? - complex. the parliamentary estate. why? rollin estate. why why? well, i sympathise with you . i also sympathise with you. i also think it's probably- sympathise with you. i also think it's probably the- i also think it's probably the most lurorosrlug— think it's probably the most interesting place in the whole of rho— interesting place in the whole of the palace— interesting place in the whole of the palace of— interesting place in the whole of the palace of westminster. arl— of the palace of westminster. all you — of the palace of westminster. all you know,— of the palace of westminster. and you know, particularly you should— and you know, particularly you slroull gor— and you know, particularly you should get olivia— and you know, particularly you should get olivia utley back on porrloulor— should get olivia utley back on porrloulor lor— should get olivia utley back on particular for political roporrors— particular for political roporrors .— particular for political reporters . this particular for political reporters. this is particular for political reporters . this is where particular for political reporters. this is where you fluo— reporters. this is where you lot our— reporters. this is where you find out where— reporters. this is where you find out where people let their guard— find out where people let their guard-nurs— find out where people let their guard _that's _youl guard down. that's where you lul— guard down. that's where you lot our— guard down. that's where you find out what's— guard down. that's where you find out what's really going on ultr— find out what's really going on roll o— find out what's really going on with a particular— find out what's really going on with a particular politician, porlops— with a particular politician, porlops-o— with a particular politician, perhaps a particular perhaps with a particular polloy— perhaps with a particulari polloy—lr-s policy. and, you know, it's uloro— policy. and, you know, it's uloro rho— policy. and, you know, it's where the gossip, but also the

sorr— where the gossip, but also the sort or— where the gossip, but also the sort of o— where the gossip, but also the sort of o lor— where the gossip, but also the sort of a lot of— where the gossip, but also the sort of a lot of the wheeling oul— sort of a lot of the wheeling oul loollug— sort of a lot of the wheeling and dealing of— sort of a lot of the wheeling and dealing of politics happens. and and dealing of politics happens. all r— and dealing of politics happens. all r rllul— and dealing of politics happens. and i think i'm— and dealing of politics happens. and i think i'm i— and dealing of politics happens. and i think i'm i don't want to be puritanical— and i think i'm i don't want to be puritanical about it. and porrloulorly— be puritanical about it. and particularly _to,l be puritanical about it. and. particularly _to, you particularly don't want to, you know,— particularly don't want to, you luoulolrooly— particularly don't want to, you know,-already it's- know, you already it's a plglrrmoro— know, you already it's a nightmare-try- know, you already it's a nightmare try and know, you already it's a nightmare .try and a nightmare to try and have a olgororro— nightmare to try and have a cigarette-houses- nightmare to try and have a cigarette houses of cigarette in the houses of rolooo— cigarette in the houses of palace westminster to be able palace of westminster to be able to slop— palace of westminster to be able to stop pooplo— palace of westminster to be able to stop people drinking , i think to stop people drinking, i think is to stop people drinking, i think ls o— to stop people drinking, i think ls o llul— to stop people drinking, i think ls o llul ol— to stop people drinking, i think ls o llul of o— to stop people drinking, i think is a kind of a step— to stop people drinking, i think is a kind of a step too far. i rllul— is a kind of a step too far. i rlrlul rho— is a kind of a step too far. i think the question need think the question we need to asl— think the question we need to ask-lo— think the question we need to osl-lo you— think the question we need to ask-do you need- think the question we need to ask do you need to drink ask is why do you need to drink in ask is why do you need to drink lu your— ask is why do you need to drink lu your plooo— ask is why do you need to drink lu your plooo ol— ask is why do you need to drink in your place of work ? well, i in your place of work? well, i moor-you— in your place of work? well, i mean,-you never- in your place of work? well, i mean, you never popped a mean, have you never popped a low— mean, have you never popped a for pool— mean, have you never popped a few back here— mean, have you never popped a few back here and— mean, have you never popped a few back here and sort of i rlrlrrl— few back here and sort of i rlrlul trol— few back here and sort of i think that there's a there is a i think that there's a there is a r lo— think that there's a there is a r lo opou— think that there's a there is a r lo oporr o— think that there's a there is a i do open a prosecco on screen on i do open a prosecco on screen or rrlloy— i do open a prosecco on screen or rrlloylr— i do open a prosecco on screen on friday,.| should- i do open a prosecco on screen on friday, i should up. on friday, so i should shut up. hosp-r— on friday, so i should shut up. trout-r— on friday, so i should shut up. hasn't-a massive- on friday, so i should shut up. i hasn't-a massive hypocrite. hasn't been a massive hypocrite. but you don't pay for that as taxpayers anyway. i think but you don't pay for that as taxjkinds anyway. i think but you don't pay for that as taxjkind of nyway. i think but you don't pay for that as taxjkind of taxpayer i think but you don't pay for that as taxjkind of taxpayer stuff:hink but you don't pay for that as taxjkind of taxpayer stuff may the kind of taxpayer stuff may be interest people. it be interest some people. it doesn't interest me it doesn't interest me that much. so doesn't interest me that much. so purrlug— doesn't interest me that much. so purrlug trol— doesn't interest me that much. so putting that aside, i think the so putting that aside, i thinki rho—puosrlou so putting that aside, i thinki theiit_question so putting that aside, i think the it the question so putting that aside, i think the it the case question so putting that aside, i think the it the case thatquestion so putting that aside, i think the it the case that if estion so putting that aside, i think the it the case that if you>n is, is it the case that if you lurroluoo— is, is it the case that if you introduce alcohol into a uorlplooo,— introduce alcohol into a workplace, it- introduce alcohol into a workplace, it inevitably ends in lolouolroryo— workplace, it inevitably ends in debauchery? no,— workplace, it inevitably ends in debauchery? no, i— workplace, it inevitably ends in debauchery? no, i think most of us-ro— debauchery? no, i think most of us-ro populo- debauchery? no, i think most of us-to handle our- debauchery? no, i think most of us to handle our drink. us know how to handle our drink. llro— us know how to handle our drink. rho—ogolu— us know how to handle our drink. rho—ogolu rho- us know how to handle our drink. the _again, the mp - us know how to handle our drink. the again, the mp that the you know, again, the mp that you—shall- the you know, again, the mp that you—sloll-loi you mentioned who shall not be rumou— you mentioned who shall not be uomol los— you mentioned who shall not be named has obviously allegedly oyorsroppol— named has obviously allegedly overstepped-and- named has obviously allegedly overstepped and that i overstepped the mark and that i lop-r—llomo- overstepped the mark and that ii don't—blame that don't think you could blame that sololy—rr-s- solely down to alcohol. it's about—

solely down to alcohol. it'si about—ability solely down to alcohol. it's- about_ability to about someone's own ability to control— about someone's own ability to control rlrolr— about someone's own ability to control their actions. i control their actions. and i would— control their actions. and i would poro— control their actions. and i would hate to— control their actions. and i would hate to ruin the fun of rorllomour— would hate to ruin the fun of parliament just— would hate to ruin the fun of parliament just on the basis of a parliament just on the basis of o lou— parliament just on the basis of o row pooplo— parliament just on the basis of a few people who— parliament just on the basis of a few people who it's not just a llul— a few people who it's not just a llul ol— a few people who it's not just a kind of alleged— a few people who it's not just a kind of alleged sexual lmproprlory— kind of alleged sexual impropriety . it's also, you impropriety. it's also, you know,— impropriety. it's also, you know, there _ impropriety. it's also, you know, there are some mps who go around— know, there are some mps who go around bolog— know, there are some mps who go around being loose— know, there are some mps who go around being loose lipped about soourlry— around being loose lipped about security secrets— around being loose lipped about security secrets and all the rost— security secrets and all the rosr-spoollug- security secrets and all the rest-speaking to - security secrets and all the rest speaking to foreign rest of it speaking to foreign ogours— rest of it speaking to foreign atolls-all— rest of it speaking to foreign agents-alllthat- rest of it speaking to foreign agents all that kind of agents and all of that kind of rlrlug. — agents and all of that kind of rlrlug. so— agents and all of that kind of thing. so there— agents and all of that kind of thing. so there might be a proton— thing. so there might be a problem, but— thing. so there might be a problem, but please don't take arroy— problem, but please don't take away—wrot- problem, but please don't take array—wool lo- problem, but please don't takej away—what do you problem, but please don't take- away—what do you make away the booze. what do you make to gary? well, i away the booze. what do you make toigary? well, i think- away the booze. what do you make toigary? well, i think it's- to it, gary? well, i think it's unfol— to it, gary? well, i think it's unfair because— c (133? well, i think it's unfair because evans missed out, as unfair because evans missed out, osoor—llor- unfair because evans missed out, osoor—llor olf- unfair because evans missed out, as_earlier off air.. as we discussed earlier off air. slos— as we discussed earlier off air. she's actually— as we discussed earlier off air. she's actually not— as we discussed earlier off air. she's actually not been involved in she's actually not been involved lu—oulruro- in the drinking culture at westminster.— in the drinking culture at westminster. my westminster. i got my parliamentary pass when i was program,— parliamentary pass when i was poplars-troll,— parliamentary pass when i was pregnant, well, well, both pregnant, so. well, well, both mysoll— pregnant, so. well, well, both. mysoll—uo-vo myself and michelle have we've loop—wovo- myself and michelle have we've been _we've dranki been there, right? we've drank in been there, right? we've drank lu—rr— been there, right? we've drank lu—rr loos- been there, right? we've drank in_|t does-overl in those bars. it does go over rho— in those bars. it does go over to top — in those bars. it does go over to top. apol— in those bars. it does go over the top. and, you— in those bars. it does go over the top. and, you know, both. poll.— the top. and, you know, both. both-iwas— the top. and, you know, both. both-iwas o— the top. and, you know, both. both. was a witness to it. both. it was a witness to it. i run a parliamentary commission for poorly— run a parliamentary commission for poorly-oul- run a parliamentary commission for nearly-and we- for nearly four years and we would— for nearly four years and we would-up— for nearly four years and we would-up and- for nearly four years and we would up and have few would stop up and have a few poors— would stop up and have a few beers-beers,- would stop up and have a few beers.-beers, only. - would stop up and have a few beers. beers, only. but beers. a few beers, only. but your— beers. a few beers, only. but you-l-lrrs— beers. a few beers, only. but you'd-mps that- beers. a few beers, only. but you'd mps that had you'd see mps that had been too— you'd see mps that had been too slrroo— you'd see mps that had been there since lunchtime and it's luro— there since lunchtime and it's luro rho— there since lunchtime and it's now into the early evening. so i rlrlrrl— now into the early evening. so i rllul—loozo- now into the early evening. so i think booze problem think if there's a booze problem oursllo— think if there's a booze problem oursllo ol— think if there's a booze problem outside of parliament, there's one-parliament- one inside of parliament as you.— one inside of parliament as wen-yep.- one inside of parliament as uoll-yoollrl well. and i'd yeah, it's i guoss— well. and i'd yeah, it's i guoss you— well. and i'd yeah, it's i guess, you know, it is what it

is. guess, you know, it is what it ls. r— guess, you know, it is what it ls. r lop-r— guess, you know, it is what it is. i don't think— guess, you know, it is what it is. i don't think it's one of rho— is. i don't think it's one of tho plpposr— is. i don't think it's one of the biggest issues, biggest prolloms— the biggest issues, biggest. problems-currently the biggest issues, biggest problewith currently the biggest issues, biggest problewith at currently the biggest issues, biggest problewith at the currently the biggest issues, biggest problewith at the moment.tly the biggest issues, biggest problewith at the moment. in faced with at the moment. in loos— faced with at the moment. in loos uo— faced with at the moment. in fact, we probably— faced with at the moment. in fact, we probably be a lot lorror— fact, we probably be a lot too olf— fact, we probably be a lot better off if— fact, we probably be a lot better off if they were all all too— better off if they were all all too rlmo. — better off if they were all all too rlmo. r— better off if they were all all the time. i don't- better off if they were all all the time. cc?" c c the time. i don't think it's the biggest problem. but said biggest problem. but you said earlier on that culture comes from when you've from the top. and when you've got this workplace, a professional workplace representing we representing all of us and we are paying for this facility to be pumping, for people to be pumping full of pumping themselves full of alcohol taxpayer's dime alcohol on a taxpayer's dime and then you then misbehaving. and didn't you say someone was say that someone was inappropriate to you? oh, yeah. no conference to depher no names. conference to depher olour—luollly- about that. well, luckily for you, the end of the you, it's almost the end of the program, but it's fantastic telling me a little story. ladies a lady ladies and gents, about a lady behaving inappropriately ladies and gents, about a lady beha\i1g inappropriately ladies and gents, about a lady beha\i mean, propriately ladies and gents, about a lady beha\i mean, look'iately ladies and gents, about a lady beha\i mean, look ,itely ladies and gents, about a lady beha\i mean, look , you are. gary. i mean, look, you are. you've saved by the bell because i do have to say my farewells and goodbye. that's called strolls,— and goodbye. that's called snitching,-way. - and goodbye. that's called- snitching,-way. .look snitching, by the way. but look at snitching, by the way. but look or rlls. — snitching, by the way. but look at this. shush. listen look at this, everybody. £2.97. that was the price of a glass of wine in in one of the house of commons bar subsidised, of course by you and me. anyway look ella that's all i've got time for, gary. thank you to thank you at home.

if you are drinking, just imagine what it would be like if he was only paying what, £2, £3, something for a glass of wine . something for a glass of wine. oh, how the other half live. have a good one. don't go anywhere. nigel farage up next and i'll see you tomorrow evening. i'm alex deakin . this evening. i'm alex deakin. this is evening. i'm alex deakin. this ls your— evening. i'm alex deakin. this ls your lorosr— g i'm alex deakin. this is your latest weather update from— is your latest weather update from-mor— is your latest weather update from - met office - is your latest weather update from met office for gb news. from the met office for gb news. loloy— from the met office for gb news. loopy—slur— today marks the start of meteorological summer and for marry,— meteorological summer and for many, rho— meteorological summer and for many to su— meteorological summer and for many, the sun will continue to slrlrro. — many, the sun will continue to slrlrro. ll— many, the sun will continue to shine. it should— many, the sun will continue to shine. it should be a brighter day— shine. it should be a brighter day tomorrow— shine. it should be a brighter day tomorrow across parts of oosorur— day tomorrow across parts of eastern england— day tomorrow across parts of eastern england compared to today— eastern england compared to today too— eastern england compared to today, the weather is set fair. llouls—oroo- today, the weather is set fair. thanks—area of. today, the weather is set fair.i thanks—area of high thanks to this big area of high pressure around— thanks to this big area of high pressure around that high. the lrooo— pressure around that high. the prooo ls— pressure around that high. the breeze is still— pressure around that high. the breeze is still feeding in from the breeze is still feeding in from to north— breeze is still feeding in from the north sea— breeze is still feeding in from the north sea and that moves the cloud— the north sea and that moves the cloud pool— the north sea and that moves the cloud back inland— the north sea and that moves the cloud back inland during this ovoulug— cloud back inland during this oyoulug oul— cloud back inland during this evening and overnight. so rurulug— evening and overnight. so turning overcast across most of england— turning overcast across most of lugloul luro— turning overcast across most of england into parts of east rrolos— england into parts of east wales, southern scotland as you.— wales, southern scotland as well. extreme _ wales, southern scotland as well. extreme west, northern rrolorrl— well. extreme west, northern rroloul oul— well. extreme west, northern ireland and a— well. extreme west, northern ireland and a good chunk of soorloul— ireland and a good chunk of scotland will— ireland and a good chunk of scotland will stay largely oorlo — scotland will stay largely loo arro— scotland will stay largely clear. and here it will turn oulro— clear. and here it will turn oulro olllly— clear. and here it will turn quite chilly in— clear. and here it will turn quite chilly in northern soorlouo— quite chilly in northern scotland ,_ quite chilly in northern scotland , even touch of frost scotland, even a touch of frost is scotland, even a touch of frost ls posslllo— scotland, even a touch of frost is possible-most- scotland, even a touch of frost is possible most start is possible, but most will start rrlooy— is possible, but most will start rrlooy or— is possible, but most will start friday at about— is possible, but most will start friday at about 8— is possible, but most will start friday at about 8 or 9 celsius, lur— friday at about 8 or 9 celsius, our olso— friday at about 8 or 9 celsius, but also starting— friday at about 8 or 9 celsius, but also starting fairly cloudy

. r— but also starting fairly cloudy . r rlrlul— but also starting fairly cloudy now. i think that cloud will look— now. i think that cloud will look up— now. i think that cloud will lrool up os— now. i think that cloud will break up as we— now. i think that cloud will break up as we go through friday morning-— break up as we go through friday morning. reasonable quickly as you— morning. reasonable quickly as poll-moro— morning. reasonable quickly as well more optimistic that well and more optimistic that oosorrrr— well and more optimistic that eastern counties— well and more optimistic that eastern counties of england , eastern counties of england, uloro— eastern counties of england, wlroro ll— eastern counties of england, wlroro lr los— eastern counties of england, where it has been dull and cold, all where it has been dull and cold, oll wool,— where it has been dull and cold, oll wool, ulll— where it has been dull and cold, all week, will be— where it has been dull and cold, all week, will be a— where it has been dull and cold, all week, will be a little bit lrlolrror. — all week, will be a little bit brighter.-will- all week, will be a little bit brighter. will still be a brighter. there will still be a prooo— brighter. there will still be a proooo-— brighter. there will still be a breeze-a chilly- brighter. there will still be a breeze a chilly feel breeze bringing a chilly feel from— breeze bringing a chilly feel from too— breeze bringing a chilly feel from the-sea- breeze bringing a chilly feel from the-sea .- breeze bringing a chilly feel from the sea . so pretty from the north sea. so pretty lroslr— from the north sea. so pretty lroslrlrlro— from the north sea. so pretty fresh-the coast— from the north sea. so pretty fresh .the coast ,- from the north sea. so pretty fresh the coast , but from the north sea. so pretty fresh the coast, but a fresh on the coast, but a loy— fresh on the coast, but a sunnier day generally . most sunnier day generally. most plooos— sunnier day generally. most plooos-suuuy- sunnier day generally. most places sunny spells again places seeing sunny spells again . roost— places seeing sunny spells again . rrosr ulll— places seeing sunny spells again . west will see— places seeing sunny spells again . west will see the— places seeing sunny spells again . west will see the highest temperatures,— . west will see the highest temperatures, 21, maybe 22 temperatures, 20, 21, maybe 22 colslus— temperatures, 20, 21, maybe 22 colslus o— temperatures, 20, 21, maybe 22 colslus o loll— temperatures, 20, 21, maybe 22 celsius, a bit more— temperatures, 20, 21, maybe 22 celsius, a bit more cloud at tropos— celsius, a bit more cloud at rlmos or— celsius, a bit more cloud at times. of course,- celsius, a bit more cloud at times. of course, the north—west of soorlouo, — times. of course, the north—west of scotland, that— of scotland, that cloud thickening— of scotland, that cloud thickening again of scotland, that cloud- thickening-again on thickening up here again on rrlooy— thickening up here again on rrlooy night-— thickening up here again on friday night. little bit of friday night. a little bit of orlzzlo— friday night. a little bit of drizzle likely— friday night. a little bit of drizzle likely over the northern rslos. — drizzle likely over the northern rslos-ooolu— drizzle likely over the northern isles-again, some- drizzle likely over the northern isles. again, some cloud isles. and again, some cloud ulll— isles. and again, some cloud wlll soop— isles. and again, some cloud will seep back— isles. and again, some cloud will seep back inland over control— will seep back inland over central parts— will seep back inland over central parts of- will seep back inland over central parts of england. but on sorurooy— central parts of england. but on sorurooy olso— central parts of england. but on sorurooy, olso .— central parts of england. but on saturday, also , although it may saturday, also, although it may srorr— saturday, also, although it may srorr o— saturday, also, although it may srorr o loll— saturday, also, although it may start a bit misty— saturday, also, although it may start a bit misty in the central trol— start a bit misty in the central areas, that low— start a bit misty in the central areas, that low cloud should olsoppoor— areas, that low cloud should olsoppoor oul— areas, that low cloud should disappear and should be gone by loro— disappear and should be gone by loro-r-o— disappear and should be gone by loro-r-o rooo— disappear and should be gone by late i'd have thought late morning. i'd have thought solmosr— late morning. i'd have thought solmosr lr-s— late morning. i'd have thought so.most it'slsunny- so for most it's a sunny sorurooy— so for most it's a sunny saturday again, a bit more cloud porrlroru— saturday again, a bit more cloud over northern scotland, but ooporolly— over northern scotland, but generally elsewhere lots of blue sly.— generally elsewhere lots of blue sky adolp— generally elsewhere lots of blue sky aoolu lr-ll— generally elsewhere lots of blue sky. again it'll be— generally elsewhere lots of blue sky. again it'll be western areas seeing— sky. again it'll be western areas seeing the top temperatures as 23, maybe a 24 on temperatures as 23, maybe a 24 or sorurooy.— temperatures as 23, maybe a 24

on saturday. some— temperatures as 23, maybe a 24 on saturday. some coasts, porrloulorly— on saturday. some coasts, particularly where we've got the lrooo— particularly where we've got the prooo from — particularly where we've got the breeze from the— particularly where we've got the breeze from the will remain breeze from the sea, will remain rotor— breeze from the sea, will remain rollor lroslr. — breeze from the sea, will remain rather fresh. and _ breeze from the sea, will remain rather fresh. and it's a similar story— rather fresh. and it's a similar story or— rather fresh. and it's a similar story or supooy.— rather fresh. and it's a similar story on sunday. plenty of strong— story on sunday. plenty of strong sunshine . uv levels will strong sunshine. uv levels will be strong sunshine. uv levels will lo highl— strong sunshine. uv levels will to high os— strong sunshine. uv levels will be high, as will—

low . low. good evening. coming up in the next hour, government is now good evening. coming up in the nea hour, government is now good evening. coming up in the nea legal government is now good evening. coming up in the nea legal battlervernment is now good evening. coming up in the nea legal battle with �*nent is now good evening. coming up in the nea legal battle with thet is now good evening. coming up in the nea legal battle with the covidiv in a legal battle with the covid inquiry explain to you inquiry would explain to you what means for all what that actually means for all the parties. support net the parties. now support net zero. they really zero. but have they really thought the energy thought about the energy security of their security implications of their policies? we'll debate what to do with those. just stop oil protesters who attempted to stop the england cricket team getting to lord's today. and our last object on the agenda will be is it now right to scrap inheritance tax? but before all of that, let's get the news with polly middlehurst .