nigel, thank polly middlehurst. nigel, thank you. good— polly middlehurst. nigel, thank you. good evening— polly middlehurst. nigel, thank you. good evening ._ 3: nigel, thank you. good evening . well, as you. good evening. well, as you-ve— you. good evening. well, as we just— you. good evening. well, as you've just been— you. good evening. well, as you've just been hearing, the cabinet— you've just been hearing, the cabinet office— you've just been hearing, the cabinet office is— you've just been hearing, the cabinet office is now seeking a legal— cabinet office is now seeking a legal challenge— cabinet office is now seeking a legal challenge to the covid inquiry— legal challenge to the covid inquiry order— legal challenge to the covid inquiry order to— legal challenge to the covid inquiry order to release the former— inquiry order to release the former prime— inquiry order to release the former prime minister, boris johnson-s— former prime minister, boris johnson's whatsapp messages and diary— johnson's whatsapp messages and diary enmes— johnson's whatsapp messages and iiary eniries .— johnson's whatsapp messages and iiary eniries . ii— johnson's whatsapp messages and diary entries . it was given diary entries. it was given uniii— diary entries. it was given uniii 4— diary entries. it was given uniii i pri- — diary entries. it was given until 4 pm. today to hand over those— until 4 pm. today to hand over those unridden_ until 4 pm. today to hand over those unridden acted messages ieiween— those unridden acted messages ieiween iii— those unridden acted messages between mrjohnson and his advisers— between mrjohnson and his advisers during— between mrjohnson and his advisers during the time of the pandemic.— advisers during the time of the pandemic. as— advisers during the time of the pandemic, as well— advisers during the time of the pandemic, as well as his diaries ani— pandemic, as well as his diaries and iii— pandemic, as well as his diaries and iii iris— pandemic, as well as his diaries and all his notebooks. the prime minister— and all his notebooks. the prime minister earlier— and all his notebooks. the prime minister earlier said the government— minister earlier said the government is confident in its posiiion— government is confident in its position io— government is confident in its position to respond to the covid inquiries. — position to respond to the covid inquiries. demand— position to respond to the covid inquiries. demand for full disclosure— inquiries. demand for full disclosure of— inquiries. demand for full disclosure of the private messages and papers. the cabinet office— messages and papers. the cabinet office previously— messages and papers. the cabinet office previously argued the nnierini— office previously argued the material was— office previously argued the material was irrelevant and cininei— material was irrelevant and cininei ii— material was irrelevant and claimed it didn't have to reveal it. claimed it didn't have to reveal in wein— claimed it didn't have to reveal in wen, nine— claimed it didn't have to reveal it. well, also in— claimed it didn't have to reveal it. well, also in the news ioiny— it. well, also in the news today, labour— it. well, also in the news today, labour has received a ionnni— today, labour has received a formal complaint over the conduci— formal complaint over the coninci oi— formal complaint over the conduct of the— formal complaint over the conduct of the mp geraint davies . ne— conduct of the mp geraint davies . in was— conduct of the mp geraint davies . he was suspended— conduct of the mp geraint davies . he was suspended by the party penning— . he was suspended by the party pending in— . he was suspended by the party pending an investigation into rennin— pending an investigation into rennin oi— pending an investigation into reports of incredibly serious niiegniions— reports of incredibly serious allegations of— reports of incredibly serious

allegations of completely unacceptable— allegations of completely unacceptable behaviour . the unacceptable behaviour. the swanna— unacceptable behaviour. the swansea west— unacceptable behaviour. the swansea west mp has had the whip annoyan— swansea west mp has had the whip nrnawei wniin— swansea west mp has had the whip removed while a— swansea west mp has had the whip removed while a review is nanni— removed while a review is carried ani— removed while a review is carried an .— removed while a review is carried out . dorset police has carried out. dorset police has iawnnnei— carried out. dorset police has iawnnnni an— carried out. dorset police has launched an investigation into the launched an investigation into an ieainn— launched an investigation into the deaths of— launched an investigation into the deaths of two young swimmers at bournemouth— the deaths of two young swimmers at bournemouth beach yesterday. a i2— at bournemouth beach yesterday. a iz year— at bournemouth beach yesterday. a iz year airi— at bournemouth beach yesterday. a 12 year old girl— at bournemouth beach yesterday. a 12 year old girl from buckinghamshire and a 17 year old buckinghamshire and a 17 year aii nay— buckinghamshire and a 17 year aii nay inan— buckinghamshire and a 17 year old boy from southampton died anaer— old boy from southampton died aiinr being— old boy from southampton died after being pulled from the sea yaniariay— after being pulled from the sea yesterday afternoon. eight ainnrn— yesterday afternoon. eight others were _ yesterday afternoon. eight others were treated for non—threatening injuries. a man in nin— non—threatening injuries. a man in nin ao— non—threatening injuries. a man in nin no wna— non—threatening injuries. a man in his 40 who the— non—threatening injuries. a man in his 40 who the force, say was on in his 40 who the force, say was an inn— in his 40 who the force, say was an inn wann— in his 40 who the force, say was on the water at— in his 40 who the force, say was on the water at the— in his 40 who the force, say was on the water at the time has inan— on the water at the time has been arrested— on the water at the time has been arrested on— on the water at the time has been arrested on suspicion of nanniawgninr— been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter ._ been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter. now police inwaniinain— manslaughter. now police investigate the disappearance of iiaieieinn— investigate the disappearance of madeleine mccann say they recovered several items during iani— recovered several items during iani weekn— recovered several items during last week's searches of a ranwgwnnn— last week's searches of a portuguese reservoir. german aiiiniain— portuguese reservoir. german aiiiniain nay— portuguese reservoir. german officials say the— portuguese reservoir. german officials say the items can't vet— officials say the items can't yni in— officials say the items can't yet be linked— officials say the items can't yet be linked to— officials say the items can't yet be linked to her disappearance and will be nwaiwaini— disappearance and will be evaluated over— disappearance and will be evaluated over the coming weeks . a inne— evaluated over the coming weeks . a large section— evaluated over the coming weeks . a large section of— evaluated over the coming weeks . a large section of the rennrwair— . a large section of the reservoir and- . a large section of the reservoir and dam was cordoned off around— reservoir and dam was cordoned off around no— reservoir and dam was cordoned off around 30 miles from where the off around 30 miles from where an inna— off around 30 miles from where an inane year— off around 30 miles from where the three year old— off around 30 miles from where the three year old originally wani— the three year old originally went missing— the three year old originally went missing 16— the three year old originally went missing 16 years ago. raine— went missing 16 years ago. iaiine nay— went missing 16 years ago. police say their— went missing 16 years ago. police say their investigation

inwa— police say their investigation into an — police say their investigation into the chief— police say their investigation into the chief suspect in the case, christian _ into the chief suspect in the case, christian brueckner, is nannniei— case, christian brueckner, is expected ia— case, christian brueckner, is expected to continue . now, just expected to continue. now, just nine. — expected to continue. now, just nine. ei— expected to continue. now, just stop. oil protesters blocked the ingiani— stop. oil protesters blocked the england cricket— stop. oil protesters blocked the england cricket team's bus today as england cricket team's bus today an i— england cricket team's bus today an i made— england cricket team's bus today an i made in— england cricket team's bus today as it made its way— england cricket team's bus today as it made its way to lord's. they— as it made its way to lord's. iney niaai— as it made its way to lord's. iney niaai in— as it made its way to lord's. they stood in front of the coach in ine— they stood in front of the coach in the middle— they stood in front of the coach in the middle of— they stood in front of the coach in the middle of the road, nreweniing— in the middle of the road, preventing the— in the middle of the road, preventing the team from getting to preventing the team from getting in ine— preventing the team from getting in we granni— preventing the team from getting to the ground on— preventing the team from getting to the ground on time. cricketer yanny— to the ground on time. cricketer yanny nairniaw— to the ground on time. cricketer jonny bairstow posted a photograph— jonny bairstow posted a photograph on social media nayinn— photograph on social media naying. ii— photograph on social media saying, if we're— photograph on social media saying, if we're a bit late, in— saying, if we're a bit late, in nai— saying, if we're a bit late, in nai aw— saying, if we're a bit late, it's not our fault. they did eweniwaiiy— it's not our fault. they did eventually arrive safely at innin— eventually arrive safely at lord's, where _ eventually arrive safely at lord's, where day one of the ieni— lord's, where day one of the ieni naien — lord's, where day one of the test match between england and ireiani— test match between england and ireiani gai— test match between england and ireland got underway . now the ireland got underway. now the winne— ireland got underway. now the prince ani— ireland got underway. now the prince and princess of wales nave— prince and princess of wales nave naie— prince and princess of wales nave made a— prince and princess of wales have made a surprise visit to yaraan— have made a surprise visit to ianian ia— have made a surprise visit to jordan to attend— have made a surprise visit to jordan to attend the wedding of the jordan to attend the wedding of we cannery-n— jordan to attend the wedding of the country's crown prince wiiiian — the country's crown prince william and _ the country's crown prince william and kate are among a noni— william and kate are among a non ai— william and kate are among a host of foreign— william and kate are among a host of foreign royalty aiieniine— host of foreign royalty attending the nuptials of prince wannein— attending the nuptials of prince wannein ani— attending the nuptials of prince hussein and his— attending the nuptials of prince hussein and his saudi arabian iride— hussein and his saudi arabian iwiie .— hussein and his saudi arabian iwiie . ine— hussein and his saudi arabian bride . the celebrations are bride. the celebrations are being— bride. the celebrations are being new— bride. the celebrations are being held at— bride. the celebrations are being held at the zahran palace, the being held at the zahran palace, ine nae— being held at the zahran palace, the same venue— being held at the zahran palace, the same venue chosen by the crown— the same venue chosen by the crown prince-n— the same venue chosen by the crown prince's father, king aiiwiian— crown prince's father, king abdullah, the— crown prince's father, king abdullah, the second. that's it . van-re— abdullah, the second. that's it . van-re an— abdullah, the second. that's it wen-re an ia— abdullah, the second. that's it . you're up to date— abdullah, the second. that's it . you're up to date on tv online .you're up to date on tv online dani — .you're up to date on tv online dani radia— .you're up to date on tv online dab+ radio and— .you're up to date on tv online dab+ radio and the— .you're up to date on tv online dab+ radio and the tune in app.

inin— dab+ radio and the tune in app. inin in— dab+ radio and the tune in app. inin in en— dab+ radio and the tune in app. this is gb news,— dab+ radio and the tune in app. this is gb news, britain's news . channel ine- . channel the covid . channel- the covid inquiry. .cnannei— the covid inquiry. and boy , do the covid inquiry. and boy, do we need one, given the great damage done to the nation's finances, health and state of mind. but this one, the one headed up by lady hallett, the official inquiry so far has managed to run up a bill. yep of £114 million. and yet they haven't really interviewed anybody yet. they've just asked for evidence it will no doubt take years. so i'm pretty sceptical about the way actually we're going about all of this because the swedes have completed their covid inquiry already, but the argument that's been going back and forth to and fro over the course of the last few days is that the covid inquiry is demanding a lot of

documents and in particular bofis documents and in particular boris johnson's whatsapp messages and his diaries. now bofis messages and his diaries. now boris johnson says that he's given all the information to the government, to the cabinet office and the deadline was that had been set was for o'clock today. so the government did hand over a substantial amount of material to the inquiry. but and this is a letter from the government's legal department, they say the request for unambiguously irrelevant material goes beyond the powers of the inquiry and they've launched a judicial review view into the demands from the inquiry . now into the demands from the inquiry. now in into the demands from the inquiry . now in a into the demands from the inquiry. now in a moment, we'll explain to you what that actually means . explain to you what that actually means. but do we actually means. but do we actually trust the government .7 actually trust the government? you see, matt hancock didn't want all of those whatsapp messages to be released. they

were. but they taught us a hell of a lot about matt hancock and his attitude towards dealing with the pandemic , which seemed with the pandemic, which seemed at times to be far more about politics than it did about science. so the government are saying we have not released some of this stuff because it is unamba arguably irrelevant . do unamba arguably irrelevant. do you trust the government in what they say? tell me farage at gb news .com. and i'm very pleased to say that i'm joined today by sir robert buckland mp, conservative member of parliament for south swindon, but more importantly, former justice secretary. now i think most folk sitting at home will be scratching their heads or maybe please don't turn off because we're going to explain it . what does what does the it. what does what does the government launching a judicial review, what does it actually mean? okay. well, the government is mean? okay. well, the government in nayine— mean? okay. well, the government in naying inat— mean? okay. well, the government is saying that unlike— mean? okay. well, the government is saying that unlike the— , well, the government is saying that unlike the view of is saying that unlike the view ei ine— is saying that unlike the view of we enair— is saying that unlike the view of the chair of— is saying that unlike the view of the chair of the inquiry, iaiy— of the chair of the inquiry, lady hallett,— of the chair of the inquiry, lady hallett, who wants to see all lady hallett, who wants to see aii ine — lady hallett, who wants to see all the material— lady hallett, who wants to see all the material that she eanniiern— all the material that she considers potentially relevant to considers potentially relevant in we — considers potentially relevant to the issues— considers potentially relevant to the issues in— considers potentially relevant to the issues in the inquiry

anae— to the issues in the inquiry inai iney— to the issues in the inquiry that they take— to the issues in the inquiry that they take the view that a lot that they take the view that a iei ai— that they take the view that a iei of we — that they take the view that a lot of the items— that they take the view that a lot of the items are just irrelevant. _ lot of the items are just irrelevant. they're of no, iney-re— irrelevant. they're of no, iney-re going— irrelevant. they're of no, they're going to be of no help to they're going to be of no help in anyway— they're going to be of no help to anybody whatsoever. and more inan— to anybody whatsoever. and more than-potentially- than that, they potentially ereaei— than that, they potentially ereaei a— than that, they potentially create a chilling effect. remember— create a chilling effect. remember that phrase from way nanni— remember that phrase from way iaere—eiieei- remember that phrase from way back?_effect on- remember that phrase from way back?_effect on oni back? the chilling effect on on the back? the chilling effect on on we way— back? the chilling effect on on we way inat— back? the chilling effect on on the way that ministers and aiiieiain— the way that ministers and officials might— the way that ministers and officials might work in future. in officials might work in future. in-wenin— officials might work in future. in-wanin .— officials might work in future. in-wanin . in— officials might work in future. in words , is there safe in other words, is there a safe for nnaee— in other words, is there a safe for space ministers and civil nerwanin— for space ministers and civil nerwanin ia— for space ministers and civil servants to get— for space ministers and civil servants to get on with their job?— servants to get on with their job? ia— servants to get on with their job? ialiranr— servants to get on with their job? to frank each job? to be frank with each ainen— job? to be frank with each owner-nei— job? to be frank with each other,-not in- job? to be frank with each other,-not in a- job? to be frank with each other, not in a way that can other, but not in a way that can awnin— other, but not in a way that can avoid. nanny.— other, but not in a way that can avoid, frankly, further , you avoid, frankly, further, you knew.— avoid, frankly, further, you knew. nan— avoid, frankly, further, you know, sort of— avoid, frankly, further, you know, sort of retreat further inwa— know, sort of retreat further into ine— know, sort of retreat further into the undergrowth if all this naieriai— into the undergrowth if all this naieriai in— into the undergrowth if all this material is now— into the undergrowth if all this material is now going to be eanaiie— material is now going to be capable, able— material is now going to be capable, able of— material is now going to be capable, able of disclosure in win— capable, able of disclosure in inin way— capable, able of disclosure in inin way .— capable, able of disclosure in this way . that's— capable, able of disclosure in this way . that's what capable, able of disclosure in this way. that's what this argwneni— this way. that's what this argument in— this way. that's what this argument is about. it seems to me— argument is about. it seems to me ine— argument is about. it seems to me the government don't want to eanniy— me the government don't want to eanniy witn— me the government don't want to eanniy wiin ine — me the government don't want to comply with the decision of the judge-— comply with the decision of the judge- wer— comply with the decision of the judge. her decision , though, as judge. her decision, though, as enair— judge. her decision, though, as enair ai— judge. her decision, though, as enair ei ine— judge. her decision, though, as chair of the inquiry under the anaer— chair of the inquiry under the under ine— chair of the inquiry under the under the act— chair of the inquiry under the under the act of— chair of the inquiry under the under the act of parliament that erneaei— under the act of parliament that creates inquiries— under the act of parliament that creates inquiries is— under the act of parliament that creates inquiries is absolutely eewniwei — creates inquiries is absolutely exclusive. it's— creates inquiries is absolutely exclusive. it's her— creates inquiries is absolutely exclusive. it's her discretion , exclusive. it's her discretion, ner— exclusive. it's her discretion, ner ieeinien— exclusive. it's her discretion, her decision. the— exclusive. it's her discretion, her decision. the only way they enaiienee— her decision. the only way they can challenge it— her decision. the only way they can challenge it is— her decision. the only way they can challenge it is by asking anainer— can challenge it is by asking anainer judge— can challenge it is by asking another judge to— can challenge it is by asking anotherjudge to look at it to another judge to look at it to wneiner— another judge to look at it to see whether or— another judge to look at it to see whether or not it is

unreasonable.- see whether or not it is unreasonable. so unreasonable as to unreasonable. so unreasonable as ia ne— unreasonable. so unreasonable as in ie eieariy— unreasonable. so unreasonable as to be clearly wrong.— unreasonable. so unreasonable as to be clearly wrong. now, that ia— to be clearly wrong. now, that in ne— to be clearly wrong. now, that seems to be a— to be clearly wrong. now, that seems to be a high hurdle to and i— seems to be a high hurdle to cross, and i do— seems to be a high hurdle to cross, and i do hope that that innieai— cross, and i do hope that that innieai ai— cross, and i do hope that that instead of this— cross, and i do hope that that instead of this turf war, we get a neiwiian— instead of this turf war, we get a neiwiien an— instead of this turf war, we get a solution as soon— instead of this turf war, we get a solution as soon as possible. neeawne— a solution as soon as possible. neeawne an yaw— a solution as soon as possible. because as you said at the top of ine— because as you said at the top of we package.— because as you said at the top of the package, we need to get on of the package, we need to get an witn— of the package, we need to get an wiin inin. — of the package, we need to get on with this. well,— of the package, we need to get on with this. viii“ l on with this. well, isn't that the problem that the very act of the problem that the very act of the government doing this, in effect, kicks the can further down the and judicial down the road and judicial review to be next review is not going to be next thursday, it? it's going to thursday, is it? it's going to be down the road. be some months down the road. but real question to but here's my real question to you, robert buckland. mean, you, robert buckland. i mean, whilst i understand and i do understand why the first lockdown came in, you know, we'd seen horrendous scenes from milano . we had no idea what was milano. we had no idea what was coming . absolutely right. we had coming. absolutely right. we had historical fear of 1919, the so—called spanish flu . but i got so—called spanish flu. but i got to tell you, you know, after that, i was deeply sceptical about what the government was doing. and interestingly, people like professor carol sikora, who were warning and saying actually these successive lockdowns will cause greater physical and mental harm to the nation than

the virus ever can at no point has anybody in government apologised to us apologise for taking away our liberties in a way that has never happened before in the history of this country. apologised for adding huge amounts to the national debt. huge amounts to the national debt . much of it, huge amounts to the national debt. much of it, or to much of it, swallowed up in fraud at no point has anybody apologised for the tens of thousands of people who were under diagnosed with cancen who were under diagnosed with cancer. i mean, you see where i'm from on this? i do. i'm coming from on this? i do. there is considerable will, you know, the it wasn't easy know, by the way, it wasn't easy for governing party in any for any governing party in any country. that's the point. and i will that mitigation . but will put that in mitigation. but nobody apologised to us at nobody has apologised to us at any point. and i just wonder whether people sitting at home, sitting and listening to this in the car, i just wonder whether they don't say to themselves, surely the decision as to what is unambiguously irrelevant should be a decision taken by lady hallett and not by government at that, let's be

frank oak has a vested interest in protecting its reputation. well my view is that i think it'd be far better to leave it to lady hallett to be the ultimate arbiter. that's what the ultimate arbiter. that's what we iaw— ultimate arbiter. that's what we iaw nayn. — ultimate arbiter. that's what the law says. she's- that's what the law says. she's independent of government— the law says. she's independent of government. she's been put in anae— of government. she's been put in ma naniiien— of government. she's been put in that position because of her renwiaiian— that position because of her reputation as— that position because of her reputation as an— that position because of her reputation as an excellent judge and an— reputation as an excellent judge and an a— reputation as an excellent judge and as a as a lawyer of nianiine— and as a as a lawyer of nianiing. i— and as a as a lawyer of standing. i think we should be waning— standing. i think we should be waning ner— standing. i think we should be trusting her to— standing. i think we should be trusting her to make these ieeiniann— trusting her to make these decisions-i'm- trusting her to make these decisions. i'm sorry to see decisions. and i'm sorry to see inan— decisions. and i'm sorry to see inai w-wee— decisions. and i'm sorry to see inai gei— decisions. and i'm sorry to see that we've got to— decisions. and i'm sorry to see that we've got to a— decisions. and i'm sorry to see that we've got to a position wnere— that we've got to a position wnere a— that we've got to a position where a legal— that we've got to a position where a legal challenge is being. — where a legal challenge is being. sn— where a legal challenge is being. so yea— where a legal challenge is being. ”iiigiil where a legal challenge is being. g being. so you regret the government's action? well, look, i can't government's action? well, look, i nan-i nnear— government's action? well, look, i ean-i nnear fer— government's action? well, look, i can't speak for them,- g ec 37 well, look, i can't speak for them, but i wanin— i can't speak for them, but i wawii ann— i can't speak for them, but i would ask sort— i can't speak for them, but i would ask sort i— i can't speak for them, but i would ask sort i didn't ask you to. would ask sort i didn't ask you in. i— would ask sort i didn't ask you in. i wanin— would ask sort i didn't ask you to. i would have— would ask sort i didn't ask you to. i would have sought i would nave— to. i would have sought i would nave neweni— to. i would have sought i would have sought compromise here. have sought a compromise here. sweiy— have sought a compromise here. sweiy-nwni— have sought a compromise here. surely-must-better. surely there must be a better way—inn- way of dealing with this information— way of dealing with this information hand it over to information to hand it over to aiiew— information to hand it over to allow independent lawyers to reiaei— allow independent lawyers to reiaeilie— allow independent lawyers to redact.to edit— allow independent lawyers to redact.to edit it,- allow independent lawyers to redact to edit it, to make redact it, to edit it, to make inan— redact it, to edit it, to make sure that relevant items are before— sure that relevant items are before ine— sure that relevant items are before the inquiry, and that men— before the inquiry, and that inen wnen— before the inquiry, and that then when the— before the inquiry, and that then when the inquiry publishes its then when the inquiry publishes iin iiniinen— then when the inquiry publishes its findings, we— then when the inquiry publishes its findings, we all can see wnai— its findings, we all can see wnai in— its findings, we all can see what is clearly— its findings, we all can see what is clearly relevant . and what is clearly relevant. and inat— what is clearly relevant. and inn-nan— what is clearly relevant. and that-has been- what is clearly relevant. and that has been made that decision has been made by an iniian— that decision has been made by an indian dependent it's an indian dependent person. it's my i— an indian dependent person. it's my i regret— an indian dependent person. it's my i nearer nwgeiy— an indian dependent person. it's my i regret hugely that we've endea— my i regret hugely that we've ended up— my i regret hugely that we've ended up in— my i regret hugely that we've ended up in this— my i regret hugely that we've ended up in this turf war, which i ended up in this turf war, which

i ininr— ended up in this turf war, which i ininr in— ended up in this turf war, which i think is unnecessary. iiag i think is unnecessary. mary i nannnne— i think is unnecessary. mary i nnnnone een— i think is unnecessary. mary i suppose one thing you could say is, given the ongoing battle between the civil service and the government, it the government, which i find it extraordinary that civil servants now do not want to carry out government policy from an elected government with a clear majority . and, you know, clear majority. and, you know, we'll debate that another day, perhaps there's perhaps acas, but maybe there's a fear that if a lot of information is given to lady hallett, that that deeply hallett, that that is deeply personal johnson, which personal to boris johnson, which clearly some this will be the clearly some of this will be the fear of it leaking ? well, that fear of it leaking? well, that is a very serious— l "q7 well, that is a very serious matter for the inquiry— is a very serious matter for the inquiry .— is a very serious matter for the inquiry . own— is a very serious matter for the inquiry , own discipline and inquiry, own discipline and ineir— inquiry, own discipline and ineir own— inquiry, own discipline and their own ability to handle the ewieneei — their own ability to handle the evidence. and— their own ability to handle the evidence. and i— their own ability to handle the evidence. and i think that would wnenniine— evidence. and i think that would undermine confidence and trust in ine— undermine confidence and trust in one inquiry.— undermine confidence and trust in one inquiry. ii— undermine confidence and trust in the inquiry. if there were nann— in the inquiry. if there were nwen iearn— in the inquiry. if there were such leaks to _ in the inquiry. if there were such leaks to happen. so i would nave— such leaks to happen. so i would nave inoweni— such leaks to happen. so i would have thought they'd be on their guani— have thought they'd be on their award. noi— have thought they'd be on their award, noi noi— have thought they'd be on their guard, not not to— have thought they'd be on their guard, not not to allow that to nannen— guard, not not to allow that to nannen ini— guard, not not to allow that to nannen on an— guard, not not to allow that to nannen in an i— guard, not not to allow that to happen, but as i gather, as i iron— happen, but as i gather, as i see from boris— happen, but as i gather, as i see from boris johnson's team in the see from boris johnson's team in one—ne-n- see from boris johnson's team in one—ne-n saving] the last few days, he's saying, ioow— the last few days, he's saying, ioow-ii— the last few days, he's saying, ioow-ii aii— the last few days, he's saying, look,-it all over- the last few days, he's saying, look,-it all over .- the last few days, he's saying, look, it all over . you look, hand it all over. you know.— look, hand it all over. you know. iney— look, hand it all over. you know, they can- look, hand it all over. you know, they can make a decision as know, they can make a decision anlwnai-n— know, they can make a decision anlwnai-n-or- know, they can make a decision aslwhat's-or not.- as to what's relevant or not. in — as to what's relevant or not. in rnroe— as to what's relevant or not. i'm more than— as to what's relevant or not. i'm more than happy for my nanern— i'm more than happy for my nanern ani— i'm more than happy for my papers and diary to go over papers and my diary to go over lininr— papers and my diary to go over now. ithink that's— papers and my diary to go over now. think that's probably the

now. i think that's probably the beni— now. i think that's probably the bent eowne— now. i think that's probably the best course here. _ now. i think that's probably the best course here. yeah. i think i best course here. yeah. i think i ininr— best course here. yeah. i think i own noni— best course here. yeah. i think i think most people are going to eoneiwie— i think most people are going to conclude government are conclude that the government are rightly— conclude that the government are rigniiy or— conclude that the government are rigniiy or wrongiy— conclude that the government are rigniiy or wrongiy .— conclude that the government are rightly or wrongly , fairly or rightly or wrongly, fairly or wniairiy— rightly or wrongly, fairly or wniairiy .— rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly , this— rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly , this looks shifty . unfairly, this looks shifty. inin— unfairly, this looks shifty. inin innin— unfairly, this looks shifty. this looks slippery,- unfairly, this looks shifty. this looks slippery, and it's how things look, isn't it, in politics? it is. i mean, to be fain— politics? it is. i mean, to be fair iney— politics? it is. i mean, to be fair, they will— politics? it is. i mean, to be fair, they will have- i157 it is. i mean, to be fair, they will have had legal advice— fair, they will have had legal advice about— fair, they will have had legal advice about this, i have no towin— advice about this, i have no doubt. ani— advice about this, i have no doubt. and as— advice about this, i have no doubt. and as a— advice about this, i have no doubt. and as a former law office— doubt. and as a former law officer myself,— doubt. and as a former law officer myself, i— doubt. and as a former law officer myself, i know that ieeai— officer myself, i know that legal advice _ officer myself, i know that legal advice would be sought, wowe— legal advice would be sought, wowii ne— legal advice would be sought, would be obtained. it would have to would be obtained. it would have io-wowii— would be obtained. it would have io-wowii ne— would be obtained. it would have to would be considered to take it would be considered eareiwiiy— to take it would be considered eareiwiiy . — to take it would be considered carefully . what— to take it would be considered carefully . �*fw�*fiil to take it would be considered carefully . carefully. what lawyer ever tells you not take action? tells you not to take action? well, what? well, i'm being a government— well, what? well, i'm being a government lawyer— initial 7 well, i'm being a government lawyer for will 7 well, i'm being a government lawyer for a initial 7 well, i'm being a government lawyer for a long ama— government lawyer for a long tine-wen.— government lawyer for a long tine-wen. i- government lawyer for a long time, well, i know that time, nigel. well, i know that it's time, nigel. well, i know that in important— time, nigel. well, i know that it's important to— time, nigel. well, i know that it's important to protect the nnaee — it's important to protect the nnaee winin— it's important to protect the space within which government oneraien. — space within which government oneraien. ii— space within which government oneraaen. if we— space within which government operates. if we do— space within which government operates. if we do end up in a niiwaiion— operates. if we do end up in a situation where— operates. if we do end up in a situation where everything you do situation where everything you to ani— situation where everything you to and nay— situation where everything you to and nay in— situation where everything you do and say is potentially disclosable_ do and say is potentially disclosable to- do and say is potentially disclosable to a third party, we— disclosable to a third party, yon-re-iriwe- disclosable to a third party, you're-drivelalll you're going to drive it all underground.— you're going to drive it all underground. going underground. you're going to nave.— have, what, semaphore code? you know.— have, what, semaphore code? you know-need— have, what, semaphore code? you know-neei-ior- have, what, semaphore code? you know,.need-for the. know, we need to know for the future. — know, we need to know for the future. you — know, we need to know for the future. you know,— know, we need to know for the future. you know, when we look back— future. you know, when we look back ai— future. you know, when we look tank at ine— future. you know, when we look back at the history— future. you know, when we look back at the history of this am,— back at the history of this time. we— back at the history of this time, we need— back at the history of this time, we need a record of who made— time, we need a record of who naie—wnen- time, we need a record of who naie—wnen in made what decision when and in wnai—ine- made what decision when and in what—the dangerl what circumstances. the danger witn— what circumstances. the danger wiin au—

what circumstances. the danger wiin aii oi— what circumstances. the danger with all of this— what circumstances. the danger with all of this now is that, you— with all of this now is that, you know.— with all of this now is that, you know. our— with all of this now is that, you know, our future generations are you know, our future generations going— you know, our future generations going io— you know, our future generations are going to look— you know, our future generations are going to look back and say, weii— are going to look back and say, well, now— are going to look back and say, well, now ine— are going to look back and say, well, how the hell— are going to look back and say, well, how the hell did they come to-decisions?_ well, how the hell did they come to-decisions? we- well, how the hell did they come to decisions? we don't to these decisions? we don't know.— to these decisions? we don't know-goi— to these decisions? we don't know-eoilnanerl to these decisions? we don't. know. -got.paper trail. know. we've got no paper trail. in— know. we've got no paper trail. ii-n—ani- know. we've got no paper trail. ii-n—ani ii-n- know. we've got no paper trail. it's—and it's not. it's not minuted and it's not exaeiiy. — it's not minuted and it's not exaeaiy. low— it's not minuted and it's not exactly. ibuy that. - it's not minuted and it's not exactly. i buy that. i buy that point. but do you i mean , come point. but do you i mean, come on. you know, you were there. yeah i mean, we are owed yeah we do. i mean, we are owed an apology, aren't we, nigel? i think that it's far better that we acknowledge the fact that no government— we acknowledge the fact that no government in— we acknowledge the fact that no government is perfect. i eenainiy— government is perfect. i certainly don't sit here and say we goi— certainly don't sit here and say we got an— certainly don't sit here and say we got aii ine— certainly don't sit here and say we got all the calls right. i'm ag— we got all the calls right. i'm inai in— we got all the calls right. i'm sure that in the— we got all the calls right. i'm sure that in the light of ninanigni.— sure that in the light of hindsight, there are other there are hindsight, there are other there eaiin— hindsight, there are other there eaiin we— hindsight, there are other there are calls we would have made iiiiereniiy. — are calls we would have made differently. - i _ are calls we would have made differently. i think differently. and i don't think any— differently. and i don't think anylwn— differently. and i don't think any-us sitting— differently. and i don't think any us sitting around that any of us sitting around that iaiie— any of us sitting around that table wanted— any of us sitting around that table wanted to— any of us sitting around that table wanted to lock the country up. table wanted to lock the country on. -renenier— table wanted to lock the country up. remember thinking, my up. i can remember thinking, my god— up. i can remember thinking, my not. you— up. i can remember thinking, my eon. you know.— up. i can remember thinking, my god, you know, this— up. i can remember thinking, my god, you know, this in a neaeeiine— god, you know, this in a peacetime—a god, you know, this in a- peacetime_a liberal peacetime democracy, a liberal ienoeraey— peacetime democracy, a liberal democracy,_reallyl peacetime democracy, a liberal demo

didn't say i didn't use that phrase. i never liked that. i wrea— phrase. i never liked that. i never liked that— i never liked that. i never liked that phrase, a niawinn— never liked that phrase, a slavish sort— never liked that phrase, a slavish sort follow the slavish sort of. i follow the ewieneei — slavish sort of. i follow the evidence. yes— slavish sort of. i follow the evidence. yes and on balance, try evidence. yes and on balance, iry ani— evidence. yes and on balance, try and make— evidence. yes and on balance, try and make the— evidence. yes and on balance, try and make the best decision in .circumstances. - try and make the best decision in circumstances. know, in the circumstances. you know, iwe—oi- in the circumstances. you know,i i've _of decisions i've made thousands of decisions as i've made thousands of decisions anlnininien— i've made thousands of decisions anlnininien-i— i've made thousands of decisions as minister, i wouldn't as a minister, nigel. iwouldn't sav— as a minister, nigel. iwouldn't nay-au— as a minister, nigel. iwouldn't nay-aii ine— as a minister, nigel. iwouldn't say-all the best- as a minister, nigel. i wouldn't say-all the best or. say they were all the best or ine— say they were all the best or we noni— say they were all the best or the most perfect— say they were all the best or the most perfect decisions, but i the most perfect decisions, but i made— the most perfect decisions, but i made decisions— the most perfect decisions, but i made decisions in the circumstances- i made decisions in the- circumstances-evidence circumstances on the evidence ag— circumstances on the evidence inn—tine- circumstances on the evidence inai—iine in- circumstances on the evidence that—time in goodj that i had at the time in good fain.— that i had at the time in good fain-inan— that i had at the time in good faith. .that's as- that i had at the time in good faith. that's as much you faith. and that's as much as you renneei— faith. and that's as much as you can respect from _ faith. and that's as much as you can respect from any minister. wnai— can respect from any minister. wnai-iiaw— can respect from any minister. what matt hancock leaks and what the matt hancock leaks and we—ine— what the matt hancock leaks and we—ine rnanner- what the matt hancock leaks and we_the manner ini we might deplore the manner in wnien— we might deplore the manner in wnien aii— we might deplore the manner in wnien aii oi— we might deplore the manner in which all of matt— we might deplore the manner in which all of matt hancock's us wnainann— which all of matt hancock's us whatsapp messages came into the nwiiie— whatsapp messages came into the patio ionain. — whatsapp messages came into the patio aonain. — whatsapp messages came into the public domain. but— whatsapp messages came into the public domain. i: i: 'i: public domain. but they did. and the most thing in that was he was making decision or urging decisions that certainly weren't following the science and i'm talking here in particular about quarantine periods for people who've been abroad. and they thought, by the way, that i'd gone into the open after 13 days and 12 hours and could they lock me up? well, i'm irrelevant to this. it's quite funny, but i have got pub hooligan is have got pub hooligan now is my twitter but but actually twitter handle. but but actually what was happening here, he was

wanting decisions to made to wanting decisions to be made to protect government's protect the government's reputation rather than dealing actually with genuine health risks from covid. and it's all there in black and white and it's frankly why he has to leave politics. there is no way back having seen the way hancock behaved and the decisions he made. some of which were based purely for selfish , political purely for selfish, political reputational reasons . why the reputational reasons. why the hell should i trust this government? well look, individuals will be motivated by different, different things. and i don't think it's fair to say,— and i don't think it's fair to say, therefore,— and i don't think it's fair to say, therefore, the collective view— say, therefore, the collective oi— say, therefore, the collective of we — say, therefore, the collective view of the government was that we trying— view of the government was that we trying to— view of the government was that we were trying to sort of, you know.— we were trying to sort of, you know. niin — we were trying to sort of, you know. niin ani— we were trying to sort of, you know, slip and slide our way inrowgn— know, slip and slide our way inrowgn inin— know, slip and slide our way through this because of noiiiieai— through this because of political expediency. i can tell you— political expediency. i can tell yon-inn— political expediency. i can tell yon-inn wan- political expediency. i can tell you this was politically you none of this was politically eaneiieni. — you none of this was politically expedient. _the- you none of this was politicallyi expedient. _the-that expedient. i mean, the idea that we-ioer— expedient. i mean, the idea that we-ioer an— expedient. i mean, the idea that we-ioer an ine- expedient. i mean, the idea that we lock up the country, we want to lock up the country, you— we want to lock up the country, you know.— we want to lock up the country, you know. nion— we want to lock up the country, you know, stop the— we want to lock up the country, you know, stop the economy and eni— you know, stop the economy and end an— you know, stop the economy and end an nawing— you know, stop the economy and end an nawing io— you know, stop the economy and end up having to subsidise, you know.— end up having to subsidise, you know,-livelihoods- end up having to subsidise, you know, livelihoods was know, jobs and livelihoods was eieariy— know, jobs and livelihoods was clearly bonkers. _ know, jobs and livelihoods was clearly bonkers. i— know, jobs and livelihoods was clearly bonkers. i mean, we iiin-i— clearly bonkers. i mean, we iiin-i wani— clearly bonkers. i mean, we didn't want to— clearly bonkers. i mean, we didn't want to do any of this. go,— didn't want to do any of this. no. ini— didn't want to do any of this. no. in inat— didn't want to do any of this. no, but that was— didn't want to do any of this. no, but that was then and this is no, but that was then and this in ana— no, but that was then and this in and my— no, but that was then and this is now. and my point- no, but that was then and this is now. ' is now. and my point is, as i repeat, the point that what

those hancock revelations showed us that things were being us is that things were being done his political done to protect his political reputation . you know, you know, reputation. you know, you know, even when whitty and vallance are saying five days or seven daysis are saying five days or seven days is fine, now we must stick to 14, because i've said it already . i mean, it's just already. i mean, it's just wrong. it'sjust already. i mean, it's just wrong. it's just wrong. and my question about the question was not about about the difficulty of decisions that government time, government faced at the time, but this looks like a cover up. it looks like it. it might do , i it looks like it. it might do, i ininw— it looks like it. it might do, i ininw io— it looks like it. it might do, i ininw to give— it looks like it. it might do, i think, to give the— e l g it might do, i think, to give the government ainoiwie— think, to give the government absolute fair— think, to give the government absolute fair air— think, to give the government absolute fair air time. i don't ininr— absolute fair air time. i don't ininr ii— absolute fair air time. i don't ininr ii in. — absolute fair air time. i don't ininr ii in. i— absolute fair air time. i don't think it is. i think it's traditional- think it is. i think it's traditional caution by lawyers ani— traditional caution by lawyers and oinern— traditional caution by lawyers and others in— traditional caution by lawyers and others in government who ion-i— and others in government who ion-i wani— and others in government who ion-i wani io— and others in government who don't want to set— and others in government who don't want to set difficult nreeeienin— don't want to set difficult precedents for— don't want to set difficult precedents for the future. i get all precedents for the future. i get aii oi— precedents for the future. i get aii oi inai. — precedents for the future. i get all of that. but— precedents for the future. i get all of that. but in— precedents for the future. i get all of that. but in the light of win— all of that. but in the light of this particular— all of that. but in the light of this particular it's this particular inquiry, it's eenirai— this particular inquiry, it's central importance. the issues ag— central importance. the issues inai ii-n— central importance. the issues that it's dealing— central importance. the issues that it's dealing with. all the issues mentioned that it's dealing with. all the. issues—mentioned , i issues that you've mentioned, i ininr— issues that you've mentioned, i wink-an— issues that you've mentioned, i ininr-an niain— issues that you've mentioned, i think-as plain as- think it is as plain as a nireniaii— think it is as plain as a pikestaff or— think it is as plain as a pikestaff or should be to anybody— pikestaff or should be to anybody in— pikestaff or should be to anybody in government that that the anybody in government that that tie-io— anybody in government that that the _to cooperate - anybody in government that that the-to cooperate as- anybody in government that that the to cooperate as early the need to cooperate as early ani— the need to cooperate as early anilnwiiiiy— the need to cooperate as early and-swiftly as— the need to cooperate as early and swiftly as possible and and as swiftly as possible and as and as swiftly as possible and an oneniy— and as swiftly as possible and an oneniy an— and as swiftly as possible and as openly as possible is essential— as openly as possible is essentiallwe- as openly as possible is essential we to avoid essential if we are to avoid eiiner— essential if we are to avoid eiiner ine— essential if we are to avoid either the perception of cover up either the perception of cover unlinieei— either the perception of cover up . indeed the _ either the perception of cover up indeed the reality , up or indeed the reality, nearing— up or indeed the reality, bearing in— up or indeed the reality, bearing in mind, you know, all the

bearing in mind, you know, all ine—rnow- bearing in mind, you know, all tie—know now.| the things that we know now. inen — the things that we know now. inen i— the things that we know now. inen i ininr— the things that we know now. then i think it— the things that we know now. then i think it is— the things that we know now. then i think it is incumbent upon— then i think it is incumbent upon government to cooperate in the upon government to cooperate in we iwiieni— upon government to cooperate in the fullest possible way with iaiy— the fullest possible way with iaiy waiieii— the fullest possible way with lady hallett and her team and to eaen— lady hallett and her team and to reaen a— lady hallett and her team and to reach a compromise— lady hallett and her team and to reach a compromise on these wnien— reach a compromise on these issues, which i'm— reach a compromise on these issues, which i'm sure is nonniiie— issues, which i'm sure is nonniiie. — issues, which i'm sure is possible. pretty- issues, which i'm sure is possible. hilly f issues, which i'm sure is possible. milne f issues, which i'm sure is- possible. pretty clear where you stand, sir robert buckland, thank you for joining us. and don't home that we do not don't say at home that we do not here at gb news give you all sides of the argument because we have. you understand why, have. and do you understand why, after hancock said , after seeing what hancock said, i very difficult to i find it very difficult to trust them. you know what? in life , if you've got things wrong life, if you've got things wrong and made bad decisions, the best thing is to hold your hands up and apologise. something this government appears not to be able do. now. net zero is all able to do. now. net zero is all the rage . yes, all the parties the rage. yes, all the parties in westminster support it. it's just a question of how quickly we can there. but have they we can get there. but have they really made proper contingency planning for our energy security ? or if a labour government gets in, do we find ourselves even more dependent on not just overseas energy , but perhaps overseas energy, but perhaps regimes who we wouldn't normally

like to support? clive moffatt, our energy guru , joins me to our energy guru, joins me to debate that in just a moment

to gb news radio . : to gb news radio. so i asked you . ao— to gb news radio. so i asked you , do you trust the government on this? some of your responses, winn— this? some of your responses, wink nayn— this? some of your responses, wink nayn. i— this? some of your responses, nick says, i don't— 57 some of your responses, nick says, i don't trust this government — nick says, i don't trust this government. as— nick says, i don't trust this government. as far as i could now— government. as far as i could how men.— government. as far as i could throw them. they've lied and taken— throw them. they've lied and taken neonie-n— throw them. they've lied and taken people's votes for granted.— taken people's votes for granted. ii— taken people's votes for granted. if the conservative party— granted. if the conservative party ioenn-i— granted. if the conservative party doesn't realise that its reputation— party doesn't realise that its reputation is— party doesn't realise that its reputation is well and truly in iaiiern— reputation is well and truly in iaiiern iney— reputation is well and truly in tatters, they might as well they nigni— tatters, they might as well they nigni after— tatters, they might as well they might after the _ tatters, they might as well they might after the next election. john— might after the next election. on nayn. — might after the next election. john says. obviously not, or any oiner— john says. obviously not, or any other government— john says. obviously not, or any other government .— john says. obviously not, or any other government . gordon says other government. gordon says anyone— other government. gordon says anyone government is anyone trusting government is naie— anyone trusting government is ai— anyone trusting government is ai beni— anyone trusting government is naive at best and— anyone trusting government is naive at best and this is one of ine— naive at best and this is one of we iningn— naive at best and this is one of the things really— naive at best and this is one of the things really that's happening— the things really that's happening at the moment is our inani— happening at the moment is our irwni in— happening at the moment is our trust in government. i think in— trust in government. i think in ine— trust in government. i think it's the lowest— trust in government. i think it's the lowest it's been. you know.— it's the lowest it's been. you know. iner— it's the lowest it's been. you know. ieier .— it's the lowest it's been. you know, rick , be— it's the lowest it's been. you know, rick , be right back to the know, rick, be right back to the ieion. — know, rick, be right back to the ieion. wow— know, rick, be right back to the 19705. now the— know, rick, be right back to the 1970s. now the energy debate has raine— 1970s. now the energy debate has rather disappeared— 1970s. now the energy debate has rather disappeared from our ironi— rather disappeared from our front nagen— rather disappeared from our front pages. the sun is shining, the temperature— front pages. the sun is shining, the temperature is— front pages. the sun is shining, the temperature is rising . the the temperature is rising. the wine— the temperature is rising. the wine oi— the temperature is rising. the nriee oi gan—

the temperature is rising. the nine oi gan in— the temperature is rising. the price of gas is not alarming neonie— price of gas is not alarming people particularly. and we're ioii— people particularly. and we're ioii ow— people particularly. and we're told our household bills will come down to— told our household bills will come down to manageable levels. wen.— come down to manageable levels. weii. cine— come down to manageable levels. well, clive moffatt,— come down to manageable levels. well, clive moffatt, former gowernneni— well, clive moffatt, former government energy adviser and noneioiy— government energy adviser and noneioiy inai— government energy adviser and somebody that talks about energy and energy— somebody that talks about energy and energy security , has been and energy security, has been nreiiy— and energy security, has been nreiiy iwny— and energy security, has been nreiiy iwny over— and energy security, has been pretty busy over the last couple of pretty busy over the last couple oi weer— pretty busy over the last couple of weeks. behind _ pretty busy over the last couple of weeks. behind the scenes , of weeks. behind the scenes, iairing— of weeks. behind the scenes, iaiiing io— of weeks. behind the scenes, talking to members of parliament,- talking to members of parliament, talking to national eni— parliament, talking to national and ani— parliament, talking to national grid and clive,— parliament, talking to national grid and clive, there is a consensus view- grid and clive, there is a consensus view now. it's there. inere-n— consensus view now. it's there. inere-n ainoni— consensus view now. it's there. there's almost no— consensus view now. it's there. there's almost no dispute reaiiy— there's almost no dispute reaiiy. a— there's almost no dispute really. a few— there's almost no dispute really. a few mps here and were.— really. a few mps here and inere. ini— really. a few mps here and there, but basically it's the nann— there, but basically it's the rwnn io— there, but basically it's the rwnn io nei— there, but basically it's the rush to net zero— there, but basically it's the rush to net zero labour labour by rush to net zero labour labour iy ine— rush to net zero labour labour iy ine ioorn— rush to net zero labour labour by the looks of— rush to net zero labour labour by the looks of what keir sinner— by the looks of what keir starmer has— by the looks of what keir starmer has said, going to stop all starmer has said, going to stop aii twinne— starmer has said, going to stop all future north— starmer has said, going to stop all future north sea gas and oil ieweionneni— all future north sea gas and oil ieweionneni .— all future north sea gas and oil development . i've— all future north sea gas and oil development . i've got development. i've got a gwairwnie— development. i've got a quadruple or- development. i've got a quadruple or you know, at least gwairwnie— quadruple or you know, at least gwairwnie ine— quadruple or you know, at least quadruple the number of wind iarnn— quadruple the number of wind farms onshore— quadruple the number of wind farms onshore or— quadruple the number of wind farms onshore or offshore, eieeiera — farms onshore or offshore, eieeiera .— farms onshore or offshore, etcetera . what- farms onshore or offshore, etcetera . what have you been etcetera. what have you been naying— etcetera. what have you been naying io— etcetera. what have you been saying to these— etcetera. what have you been saying to these mps over the iani— saying to these mps over the iani few— saying to these mps over the last few weeks— saying to these mps over the last few weeks ?_ saying to these mps over the last few weeks ? what i'm being last few weeks? what i'm being naying— last few weeks? what i'm being naying in— last few weeks? what i'm being naying in inai— last few weeks? what i'm being saying is that there's a need for saying is that there's a need ion iaianee— saying is that there's a need for balance us— saying is that there's a need for balance us and i think the ine— for balance us and i think the iirne nan— for balance us and i think the time has come—

for balance us and i think the time has come beginning. people are time has come beginning. people beginning— time has come beginning. people beginning in— time has come beginning. people are beginning to realise that there's a huge cost involved in this and there's a huge amount of disruption involved in this and that. there are technical reasons as as well as there have been overriding cost implications of going forward as they are promising. we've got a situation at the moment where politicians from both parties are playing politics in the dark on this issue of net zero based hinckley. we're making promises like closing down gas on the electricity system by 2030 or 2035. kyiv by basically quadrupling , as you say, on wind quadrupling, as you say, on wind farms, increasing nuclear reactors, basically . and all of reactors, basically. and all of thatis reactors, basically. and all of that is coming out as promises that is coming out as promises that we will do this , but that we will do this, but there's no cost benefit analysis. and what i'm finding interesting people i'm talking to have been in the industry as long as i have is they say there is no cost benefit analysis being done. we haven't seen a proper full assessment of all of this put together . so we're in a

this put together. so we're in a situation where we've got a lot of these issues that are uncertain and there's no there's no there's no balance involved . no there's no balance involved. there's no idea about how we're going to underpin security in this so—called transition, which could take a long time. yes. i mean, you know, the talk of nuclear fine expense live, but, you know, these small energy reactors. but that's ten years away. — reactors. but that's ten years away. i2— reactors. but that's ten years away. in yearn— reactors. but that's ten years away. 12 years away.- f but that's ten years away. 12 years away. we know inai— away. 12 years away. we know inai wine.— away. 12 years away. we know that wind, when _ away. 12 years away. we know that wind, when it works nerieeiiy— that wind, when it works nerieeiiy .— that wind, when it works nerieeiiy . in— that wind, when it works perfectly , is great. but very perfectly, is great. but very oiien— perfectly, is great. but very often because _ perfectly, is great. but very often because of its intermittency, there is a major nroiien— intermittency, there is a major nroiien .— intermittency, there is a major nroiien .ani— intermittency, there is a major problem . and the labour problem. and the labour nrononain— problem. and the labour nrononain .— problem. and the labour nrononain . i— problem. and the labour proposals , i mean, all of this proposals, i mean, all of this ieaen— proposals, i mean, all of this leaves us ever— proposals, i mean, all of this leaves us ever more dependent , leaves us ever more dependent, ioen— leaves us ever more dependent, ioen ii— leaves us ever more dependent, ioen ii noi— leaves us ever more dependent, ioen ii noi. on— leaves us ever more dependent, does it not, on imports ? it's does it not, on imports? it's iani— does it not, on imports? it's iani noi— does it not, on imports? it's iani noi ine— does it not, on imports? it's just not the lights going out. wean— just not the lights going out. wean i— just not the lights going out. yeah i think— just not the lights going out. yeah i think we've got an iniereniing— yeah i think we've got an interesting situation as well. iani— interesting situation as well. iani tine— interesting situation as well. iwni iiie yon— interesting situation as well. just like you like— interesting situation as well. just like you like to- interesting situation as well. just like you like to add- interesting situation as well. just like you like to add is that in the process, what's happenedis that in the process, what's happened is rather interesting since we last spoke grid and ofgem have come out of the i won't say come out of the closet as such, but they actually come out and said we have got

problems with this and this is the first time that they've openly admitted where ofgem have come said there isn't come out and said there isn't going to be enough battery storage to counter storage power to counter intermittency right. intermittency on wind. right. and grid have come out and said it's to cost billions. it's going to cost billions. pettigrew has gone public and said the upgrade in the grid to take gas out of the electricity system altogether will cost billions. in fact, there's a report going around i heard on the grapevine done by grid engineers which said that the overall cost of upgrading the network could for net zero could be £3 trillion. what which is £110,000 per household , which is £110,000 per household, which is bigger than the total size of the uk national debt . if this is the uk national debt. if this is being discussed— the uk national debt. if this is being discussed and— the uk national debt. if this is being discussed and if- : if this is being discussed and if national eni— being discussed and if national and ani— being discussed and if national one and ine— being discussed and if national grid and the energy regulator are grid and the energy regulator oneniy— grid and the energy regulator are openly talking about these iningn— are openly talking about these iningn .— are openly talking about these iningn . wny.— are openly talking about these things , why, apart from this things, why, apart from this program— things, why, apart from this program .— things, why, apart from this program . in— things, why, apart from this program . in no— things, why, apart from this program , is no one talking about program, is no one talking about it? program, is no one talking about iie weii— program, is no one talking about iie weii on— program, is no one talking about it? well on the— program, is no one talking about it? well on the political side , it? well on the political side, nennaeg — it? well on the political side, ennaeg in— it? well on the political side, message i'm getting back from win— message i'm getting back from win iron— message i'm getting back from mps from both— message i'm getting back from mps from both sides is that iaiow— mps from both sides is that iaiow in—

mps from both sides is that labour is saying— mps from both sides is that labour is saying we are aiananiiy— labour is saying we are adamantly support what we're naying— adamantly support what we're naying ani— adamantly support what we're saying and we're— adamantly support what we're saying and we're going to take inaniie— saying and we're going to take drastic action— saying and we're going to take drastic action to— saying and we're going to take drastic action to implement net on ine— drastic action to implement net zero on the conservative side you— zero on the conservative side you gei— zero on the conservative side you get ambivalence . “mt; you get ambivalence. there is a group— you get ambivalence. there is a grown oi— you get ambivalence. there is a group of mps there who say, well, maybe we should just hold back, we should think about the scale of this. we should look at the cost and be a bit more balanced in our approach. as one mp said to me, put energy policy on realistic footing . but on a realistic footing. but there is still a fear that if they do anything that could be construed as backtracking on the 2050 target, that they would basically be losing political votes in what is coming up in a year's time in the general election. as i have said to appg members that i think there is i my view is that voters would welcome a view which said we need to take 3 or 4 measures. and i'll tell you what they are now. there are five measures they want to take which are relatively straightforward, which would be an investment in underpinning and underpinning security and affordability . see, gas and affordability. see, gas and

power for and the economy in inextricably linked. and they're going to continue to be so for the foreseeable future. we basically need to have we need to review the windfall tax. we need to get more gas and oil out of the north sea, reduce our dependency on imports. we need to increase our storage levels, which i've said before many times, we need to. that takes time. that takes five years to build. we need to actually , in build. we need to actually, in the meantime, put in place a formal system for industrial , formal system for industrial, voluntarily curtailing demand at times of system stress, which will put the operator in responsible motty for real time management . when i mentioned management. when i mentioned this to grid, they said we'd be happy to do that. but no politicians ever told us to do it and the other thing is we need to stop the on the gas side. we need to stop the deadune side. we need to stop the deadline on the boilers , on on deadline on the boilers, on on heat pumps . and because heat pumps. and because basically it's not going to happen. and i think as a general principle, consumers, nigel,

should be allowed to choose if and when they want to adapt and if they can afford to adapt to the electric fication of both heat and transport that is one of the most comprehensive and powerful arguments i've ever heard as to what we need to do against this delusion. and it is against this delusion. and it is a complete delusion- against this delusion. and it is a complete delusion that- ago? : and it is a complete delusion that has nweni— a complete delusion that has nweni ow— a complete delusion that has swept our political class. as you— swept our political class. as you nay. — swept our political class. as you nay. no — swept our political class. as you say, no cost— swept our political class. as you say, no cost benefit anaiynin— you say, no cost benefit analysis, potential costs, eye—waiering— analysis, potential costs, eye—watering potential costs of moving — eye—watering potential costs of moving ine — eye—watering potential costs of moving the whole— eye—watering potential costs of moving the whole of grid over ani— moving the whole of grid over and an— moving the whole of grid over and an an— moving the whole of grid over and as an open— moving the whole of grid over and as an open invitation here, if and as an open invitation here, i anyioiy— and as an open invitation here, i anyioiy noii — and as an open invitation here, if anybody dodi anybody at any iewei— if anybody dodi anybody at any iewei oi— if anybody dodi anybody at any level of authority— if anybody dodi anybody at any level of authority in the labour eonnerwaiiwe— level of authority in the labour conservative or— level of authority in the labour conservative or indeed liberal denoerai— conservative or indeed liberal democrat parties— conservative or indeed liberal democrat parties wants to come on inin— democrat parties wants to come on this programme and argue againni— on this programme and argue againni ine— on this programme and argue against the five _ on this programme and argue against the five big points that ciiwe— against the five big points that clive moffatt— against the five big points that clive moffatt has— against the five big points that clive moffatt has made. please do .— clive moffatt has made. please do . inere-n— clive moffatt has made. please do . inere-n an— clive moffatt has made. please do . there's an open door do. there's an open door invitation— do. there's an open door invitation .— do. there's an open door invitation . any- do. there's an open door invitation . any time you want to invitation. any time you want to ciiwe— invitation. any time you want to come. clive i'm— invitation. any time you want to come. clive i'm horrified. i'm noniiiei— come. clive i'm horrified. i'm horrified that— come. clive i'm horrified. i'm horrified that this— come. clive i'm horrified. i'm horrified that this stuff is not being— horrified that this stuff is not being rnroe— horrified that this stuff is not being more openly debated and you coming— being more openly debated and you eoning on— being more openly debated and you coming on tonight helps with that you coming on tonight helps with inai nroeenn— you coming on tonight helps with that process and— you coming on tonight helps with that process and we're going to make— that process and we're going to

make sure we're going to start wriiing— make sure we're going to start writing letters— make sure we're going to start writing letters and asking just to writing letters and asking just io iei— writing letters and asking just io iei yon— writing letters and asking just to let you know,— writing letters and asking just to let you know, one little numeri— to let you know, one little number that— to let you know, one little number that might interesting number that might be interesting to number that might be interesting io viewen— number that might be interesting to viewers .that— number that might be interesting to viewers .that is— number that might be interesting to viewers that is that the to viewers is that is that the noni— to viewers is that is that the cost-balance— to viewers is that is that the cost-balance in- to viewers is that is that the cost balance in the market, cost of balance in the market, in electricity? _ cost of balance in the market, in electricity? f in electricity? because we are so short of flexible bill insurance, we don't have enough insurable capacity in support . insurable capacity in support. it has got to a point where we're importing in electricity from belgium at £1,000 a megawatt hour and the costs of that balancing process in the short term is now nearly 30% of the wholesale electricity price and will continue to rise . steps and will continue to rise. steps have to be taken . you cannot have to be taken. you cannot allow a grid in a country as import as an economy as big as this to go on air and say we think that voluntary involuntary blackouts or voluntary blackouts should be a norm during a cold winter. the should be a norm during a cold winter . the whole should be a norm during a cold winter. the whole thing is beyond— winter. the whole thing is beyond belief.— the whole thing is beyond belief. clive, brilliant .inann— beyond belief. clive, brilliant .inani yon— beyond belief. clive, brilliant , thank you for— beyond belief. clive, brilliant , thank you for coming in. and yo-ve— , thank you for coming in. and you've certainly— , thank you for coming in. and you've certainly re—energised me to you've certainly re—energised me io niari— you've certainly re—energised me io niari iaiiing— you've certainly re—energised me to start talking a— you've certainly re—energised me to start talking a bit more again— to start talking a bit more again atoni— to start talking a bit more again about energy . i promise again about energy. i promise you— again about energy. i promise you nave— again about energy. i promise you nave ine— again about energy. i promise you have the sunshine , even you have the sunshine, even inowgn— you have the sunshine, even inowgn ine— you have the sunshine, even though the sun— you have the sunshine, even though the sun shining and even

inowgn— though the sun shining and even inowgn igni— though the sun shining and even inowgn rigni ai— though the sun shining and even though right at the minute the wine— though right at the minute the wine oi— though right at the minute the price of natural— though right at the minute the price of natural gas is back to inn— price of natural gas is back to sane ish levels.— price of natural gas is back to sane ish levels. well, i was on my— sane ish levels. well, i was on my way— sane ish levels. well, i was on my way io— sane ish levels. well, i was on my way to lourdes— sane ish levels. well, i was on my way to lourdes this morning ani— my way to lourdes this morning and i— my way to lourdes this morning and i wan— my way to lourdes this morning and i was starting— my way to lourdes this morning and i was starting to get woniei— and i was starting to get worried because jonny bairstow, the worried because jonny bairstow, ine ingiani— worried because jonny bairstow, the england wicket keeper for inin— the england wicket keeper for inin ieni— the england wicket keeper for this test match— the england wicket keeper for this test match tweeted that inni— this test match tweeted that iani sion — this test match tweeted that iani sion oi— this test match tweeted that just stop oil protesters were waiiing— just stop oil protesters were walking slowly— just stop oil protesters were walking slowly down the road in ironi— walking slowly down the road in ironi oi— walking slowly down the road in ironi oi ine— walking slowly down the road in front of the england team. coach and iney— front of the england team. coach and iney wee— front of the england team. coach and they were there all on board ani— and they were there all on board and yonny— and they were there all on board and jonny bairstow— and they were there all on board and jonny bairstow said if play niarin— and jonny bairstow said if play niarin iaie— and jonny bairstow said if play starts late, don't— and jonny bairstow said if play starts late, don't blame us. wnye— starts late, don't blame us. wnye on— starts late, don't blame us. wnye on wny.— starts late, don't blame us. why? oh why, oh why are the noiiee— why? oh why, oh why are the noiiee noi— why? oh why, oh why are the police not using— why? oh why, oh why are the police not using their powers to nion— police not using their powers to nion inin— police not using their powers to nion inin iron — police not using their powers to stop this from going on on the wing-n— stop this from going on on the wing-n wignwaye— stop this from going on on the king's highway? we'll debate all of king's highway? we'll debate all oi inai— king's highway? we'll debate all oi inai in— king's highway? we'll debate all oi inai in iani—

tonight 9 to 11 pm. on gb news as tonight 9 to 11 pm. on gb news an . weii. — tonight 9 to 11 pm. on gb news an . weii. iani— tonight 9 to 11 pm. on gb news as . well. last night- tonight 9 to 11 pm. on gb news as . well. " g “el: as. well. last night we had a debate on this program between richard pitman , the former jump richard pitman, the former jump jockey and bbc tv commentator on horse racing and a representative of animal rising . and nathan, the representative told us why they would disrupt the derby this saturday and why

ultimately their aim was to stop us having pet dogs and cats. today, another group called just stop oil. but frankly, they're all the same. people did their best to stop the england cricket team from getting to lord's for the first test match of the summer . and they walked slowly summer. and they walked slowly in the road and those watching on telly can see jonny bairstow's tweet saying, if we're a bit late, don't blame us. and there they are, wilfully walking in front of the england coach. now we've seen in recent weeks people, builders, workers physically manhandling these people out of the way and then they themselves facing the risk of some kind of prosecution. what in goodness names are the police doing? they're outnumbering the protesters standing around them. what the hell is going on? i wonder? i

wonder . i'm hell is going on? i wonder? i wonder. i'm going to ask david haye, who's a human rights lawyer and himself a great sporting fan. david these people have disrupted horse races as rugby games , an attempt here at rugby games, an attempt here at cricket. i mean, there appears to be no end to the measures they will take or the amount of people's lives they will disrupt by walking slowly down the streets or or other groups. you know, chaining themselves to gantries on the m25 or the qe2 bridge. so the question , david, bridge. so the question, david, i've got for you as a human rights lawyer to begin is do the police have the necessary legislation in place to remove these people from being the obstruction to the lives of ordinary folk that they are ? i ordinary folk that they are? i mean , good evening, nigel. i mean, good evening, nigel. i mean, good evening, nigel. i mean, the short answer to that is mean, the short answer to that in yen.— mean, the short answer to that in yen. we-ve— mean, the short answer to that is yes. we've already seen the noiiee— is yes. we've already seen the noiiee in— is yes. we've already seen the police in other— is yes. we've already seen the police in other cases, you you neniioneei— police in other cases, you you neniionei. i— police in other cases, you you mentioned, i think the dartford and away— mentioned, i think the dartford and actually rest— mentioned, i think the dartford and actually rest and people in inen— and actually rest and people in inen io— and actually rest and people in inen io nave— and actually rest and people in them to have sentences passed. so them to have sentences passed. so ine— them to have sentences passed. so the legislation— them to have sentences passed. so the legislation is there . the

so the legislation is there. the women— so the legislation is there. the nroiien reaiiy— so the legislation is there. the problem really started with the ieginiaiion— problem really started with the legislation itself.— problem really started with the legislation itself. i mean, the noiiiieiann— legislation itself. i mean, the politicians, you— legislation itself. i mean, the politicians, you know, the legislation _ politicians, you know, the legislation was badly drafted ani— legislation was badly drafted and iii— legislation was badly drafted and ill considered, i would say. ani— and ill considered, i would say. and inai-n— and ill considered, i would say. and that's already— and ill considered, i would say. and that's already seen the conservative _ and that's already seen the conservative issue kind of last nine— conservative issue kind of last minute statement— conservative issue kind of last minute statement saying they nave— minute statement saying they nave io— minute statement saying they have to amend— minute statement saying they have to amend it— minute statement saying they have to amend it even though it's have to amend it even though in iani— have to amend it even though in iani gone— have to amend it even though it's just gone through. so yo-ve— it's just gone through. so yo-ve goi— it's just gone through. so yo-ve goi a— it's just gone through. so you've got a problem already wiin— you've got a problem already with-legislation- you've got a problem already with legislation the with the legislation on the noiiee— with the legislation on the police, obviously ground police, obviously on the ground nave— police, obviously on the ground have-interpret— police, obviously on the ground have interpret and have to interpret that. and again.— have to interpret that. and again. inai-n— have to interpret that. and again, that's where get again, that's where you get a nroiien — again, that's where you get a problem _there's- problem because there's innianeen— instances, instant interpretation that interpretation of that and owing— interpretation of that and putting public order act putting the public order act inio— putting the public order act inio niaee. — putting the public order act into place. so— putting the public order act into place. so you'll have some noiiee— into place. so you'll have some noiiee-neonie- into place. so you'll have some police-people that- police arresting people that nnowiin-i— police arresting people that shouldn't-been- police arresting people that shouldn't been arrested and shouldn't have been arrested and not shouldn't have been arrested and noi aneniing— shouldn't have been arrested and not arresting others— shouldn't have been arrested and not arresting others that should nave— not arresting others that should have—individual- have been that's individual noiiee—i- have been that's individual police._| mean,j have been that's individual- police._| mean, look, police. on the day i mean, look, you— police. on the day i mean, look, you know.— police. on the day i mean, look, you know. ine— police. on the day i mean, look, you know, the police were eriiieinei— you know, the police were criticised for— you know, the police were criticised for what they did at the coronation _ criticised for what they did at the coronation but, you know, actually, me being a police force, taking criticism actually is part of the job. you know, i'm afraid if you're in the police, you're going to get stick. not everybody's going to agree with your actions. but what are scared when it what are they scared of when it comes to removing these protesters? and i just wonder, you know, talking to you as a human rights lawyer with me

being a bit more of a sceptic about the whole area of human rights , is i mean, could it rights, is it i mean, could it be the police are worried that if they really take action, they might get taken to a court somewhere in strasbourg because people will say the human rights have infringed ? well, i have been infringed? well, i think i think you potentially hit the nail on the head on. one of the things that i think, tinni— one of the things that i think, iirni oi— one of the things that i think, iirni oi ain— one of the things that i think, first of all, you've— one of the things that i think, first of all, you've got individual— first of all, you've got individual police officers iooiing— individual police officers looking colleagues individual police officers- looking-colleagues that looking at their colleagues that nave— looking at their colleagues that nave appeared— looking at their colleagues that have appeared on— looking at their colleagues that have appeared on social media. iney-re— have appeared on social media. iney-re appearing— have appeared on social media. they're appearing news they're appearing on news either aneniing— arresting or not arresting nroieniern. — arresting or not arresting- protesters. _fearing protesters. they will be fearing inai—noiiee- that as individual police oiiieern— officers, making those decisions. _ officers, making those - decisions._also decisions. but i think also ieeawne— decisions. but i think also because this— decisions. but i think also because this is— decisions. but i think also because this is effectively, you know.— because this is effectively, you know. enangen— because this is effectively, you know, changes and new legislation— know, changes and new legislation already there's legislation and already there's many.— legislation and already there's many—growin- legislation and already there's. many—grown nave many, many protest groups have naie—win- many, many protest groups have naie—win ine- said there's issues with the human— said there's issues with the hanan-ani- said there's issues with the human act here. you human rights act here. you are going— human rights act here. you are going-ine— human rights act here. you are going-the forces- human rights act here. you are going the forces looking going to have the forces looking at going to have the forces looking ai inin— going to have the forces looking ai inin ani— going to have the forces looking at this and thinking, well, this new legislation,— at this and thinking, well, this new legislation, it's untested. do new legislation, it's untested. oo—ii-nl do we want to do this? it's eiear— do we want to do this? it's eiearlioi— do we want to do this? it's clearllotlthese- do we want to do this? it's clear lot these these clear a lot of these these nroieni— clear a lot of these these protest groups- clear a lot of these these protest groups now are very well iwniei— protest groups now are very well iwniei-wiii— protest groups now are very well funded _will be- protest groups now are very well funded will be cases funded and there will be cases going— funded and there will be cases going inrowgn.— funded and there will be cases going through. so— funded and there will be cases going through. so i imagine iney-re— going through. so i imagine iney-re a— going through. so i imagine iney-re a iii— going through. so i imagine they're a bit very concerned atoni— they're a bit very concerned aiowi ineir— they're a bit very concerned about their own,— they're a bit very concerned about their own, you know, iooring— about their own, you know, looking looking _ about their own, you know, looking looking bad themselves. but looking looking bad themselves. nai aino— looking looking bad themselves. nai aino in— looking looking bad themselves. but also in terms— looking looking bad themselves. but also in terms of cases under

nwnan— but also in terms of cases under nwnan rignin— but also in terms of cases under human rights being taken against men.— human rights being taken against inen. ani— human rights being taken against them. and you're— human rights being taken against them. and you're right. i mean , them. and you're right. i mean, inai-n— them. and you're right. i mean, inai-n-wnai— them. and you're right. i mean, that's-what the— them. and you're right. i mean, that's what the police, that's not what the police, one wowe— that's not what the police, one would imagine,— that's not what the police, one . would imagine,-looking would imagine, should be looking at. would imagine, should be looking ai—ie— would imagine, should be looking ai—ie yon- would imagine, should be looking ai—ie you know.- at. they should be, you know, nroieeiing— at. they should be, you know, protecting _order- at. they should be, you know,l protecting _order-also protecting public order and also the protecting public order and also ine rignin— protecting public order and also ine rignin oi— protecting public order and also the rights of the— protecting public order and also the rights of the people. and i won-i— the rights of the people. and i won-i naie— the rights of the people. and i won't make myself popular with oiner— won't make myself popular with oiner-rignin— won't make myself popular with other rights lawyers other human rights lawyers naying— other human rights lawyers naying inin— other human rights lawyers saying this, but— other human rights lawyers saying this, but with right other human rights lawyers sa'the this, but with right other human rights lawyers sa'the people jt with right other human rights lawyers sa'the people jt wi'are right other human rights lawyers sa'the people jt wi'are goingit to the people that are going atoni— to the people that are going aiowi ineir— to the people that are going about their business. and about their daily business. and i about their daily business. and i-inere-n— about their daily business. and i-inere-n noi— about their daily business. and i there's not enough i think there's not enough consideration— i think there's not enough consideration that consideration to that. and that neein— consideration to that. and that neein io— consideration to that. and that neein io ie— consideration to that. and that needs to be be— consideration to that. and that needs to be be looked as consideration to that. and that needsbutbe be looked as consideration to that. and that needsbut it'sie looked as consideration to that. and that needsbut it'si looked as consideration to that. and that needsbut it's i thinktd as consideration to that. and that needsbut it's i think it's as well. but it's i think it's going— well. but it's i think it's going io— well. but it's i think it's going to continue. you've got a summer of protests. “iii?" summer of protests. acas yeah, i'm summer of protests. acas yeah, i-nn -nave.— summer of protests. acas yeah, i'm have. david i'm afraid we have. david thank you on giving us you for coming on and giving us both sides of this argument from a perspective, i have to a legal perspective, i have to tell patience these tell you, my patience with these people has out completely people has run out completely and upin and utterly. and up in manchester, four local manchester, our four local councillors. the what the councillors. here's the what the farage decided they would farage moment decided they would take one of them also take the knee. one of them also raising in a black raising his fist in a black power salute. yes, there labour councillors from salford and they're there because of the third anniversary of the death of george floyd. now taking the knee was is of course was of course inextricably linked with the black lives matter movement

. and i think that and the raised fist are pretty inappropriate now because black lives matter has been utterly discredited and it's pretty much seen topped acting as an organisation . but it's okay organisation. but it's okay because patrice kaja kallas, who founded black lives matter, that now totally discredited extreme left wing marxist organisation, it's okay because she's living in a $6 million mansion in on the west coast, so it's all worked out really rather nicely in a moment, inheritance tax is 50. tory mps demand for it to end and a daily telegraph launches a campaign is it right that we should now consider getting rid of inheritance tax? all of

inheritance tax. it was something that george osborne and the run up to the 2010 general election that the

conservatives won. they promised that they would lift the levels significantly , 13 years on the significantly, 13 years on the levels at which inheritance tax is paid have been completely frozen. therefore, course frozen. and therefore, of course , because inflation , because of inflation effectively the levels at which people pay inheritance tax have come down and the government's income from this by many hated tax has gone up significantly to over £7 billion a year. i got to tell you, i campaigned on this in 2015. it was part of the ukip manifesto. and every year or two we get a group of mps that come out and say that actually this tax is iniquitous and it's wrong because after all, the people who are dying and leaving money to their children or grandchildren already paid grandchildren have already paid tax on that money. it's the net money that they're now being taxed on. again but it is mired in confusion . and one of the in confusion. and one of the biggest confusions is people think and some of the left wing press would make you think that it's just the super rich that pay it's just the super rich that pay inheritance tax. the truth is , the super rich have good tax is, the super rich have good tax accountants. the super rich do

tax planning . the super rich tax planning. the super rich don't pay any inheritance tax. it falls on ordinary folk, often when they least suspect that it's going to happen . and we're it's going to happen. and we're going to start off tonight with this debate with a test case. and i'm joined by mike yardley, writer, historian and friend of this program. mike tell us your experience of inheritance tax. please as well. it is an iniquitous tax in many ways, and it comes when you're really least prepared to deal with these things, when you're deaung these things, when you're dealing with bereavement. and in my own case, unfortunately,- my own case, unfortunately, i nai— my own case, unfortunately, i nai a— my own case, unfortunately, i nai a very— my own case, unfortunately, i nai a very nai— my own case, unfortunately, i had a very bad reaction to the anirazeneea— had a very bad reaction to the astrazeneca vaccine . and so astrazeneca vaccine. and so i ieeiing— astrazeneca vaccine. and so i was feeling grim _ astrazeneca vaccine. and so i was feeling grim as well . and was feeling grim as well. and ianiiy— was feeling grim as well. and our family, like— was feeling grim as well. and our family, like many other ordinary— our family, like many other ordinary families, took a eoionnai— ordinary families, took a colossal hit.— ordinary families, took a colossal hit. now, when you look around— colossal hit. now, when you look aoni ine— colossal hit. now, when you look anoni ine un— colossal hit. now, when you look around the uk and— colossal hit. now, when you look around the uk and ireland seem to around the uk and ireland seem io nave— around the uk and ireland seem io nave ine— around the uk and ireland seem to have the highest integrity inheritance _ to have the highest integrity inheritance tax— to have the highest integrity inheritance tax rates in the void.— inheritance tax rates in the void none— inheritance tax rates in the world, more or— inheritance tax rates in the world, more or less. now china , world, more or less. now china, iniia— world, more or less. now china, iniia innnia— world, more or less. now china, india, russia, new— world, more or less. now china, india, russia, new zealand ,

india, russia, new zealand, awninaiia— india, russia, new zealand, australia they— india, russia, new zealand, australia they all don't have it anynnoe— australia they all don't have it anynnoe ani— australia they all don't have it anymore and it— australia they all don't have it anymore and it is,— australia they all don't have it anymore and it is, as you say, oniinany— anymore and it is, as you say, ordinary families— anymore and it is, as you say, ordinary families .— anymore and it is, as you say, ordinary families . let's be ordinary families. let's be tinni— ordinary families. let's be grant, in— ordinary families. let's be blunt, it's middle class ianiiien— blunt, it's middle class families that- blunt, it's middle class families that are hit by this ieeawne oi— families that are hit by this because, of course, the super non.— because, of course, the super nien. yon— because, of course, the super na, you know.— because, of course, the super rich, you know, they're sitting on inein— rich, you know, they're sitting on their islands— rich, you know, they're sitting on their islands or they have inein— on their islands or they have their offshore— on their islands or they have their offshore accounts or wnaieven. — their offshore accounts or whatever. mike, what what evaeiiy— whatever. mike, what what exactly happened in your niiwaiion— exactly happened in your situation ?_ exactly happened in your situation ? well i'd rather not situation? well i'd rather not get situation? well i'd rather not gei ioo— situation? well i'd rather not get too personal— situation? well i'd rather not get too personal about it other inan— get too personal about it other inan io— get too personal about it other inan io nay— get too personal about it other than to say that— get too personal about it other than to say that we took a big nii. — than to say that we took a big nii. ani— than to say that we took a big hit. and what— than to say that we took a big hit. and what is— than to say that we took a big hit. and what is worrying with all hit. and what is worrying with aii oi— hit. and what is worrying with aii oi inin— hit. and what is worrying with all of this is— hit. and what is worrying with all of this is that— hit. and what is worrying with all of this is that when you ioon— all of this is that when you no ai— all of this is that when you no ai ine— all of this is that when you look at the average person now, iney-ne— look at the average person now, iney-re nnoiaiiy— look at the average person now, they're probably paying noneining— they're probably paying something like 70% overall in iineei— something like 70% overall in iineei ani— something like 70% overall in direct and indirect taxation in our direct and indirect taxation in naien oi— direct and indirect taxation in our rates of taxation overall eoionnai— our rates of taxation overall are colossal. and- our rates of taxation overall are colossal. and the other ining— are colossal. and the other ining inai— are colossal. and the other ining inai i— are colossal. and the other thing that i think a lot of neonie— thing that i think a lot of neonie tine— thing that i think a lot of people like me are a little bit unhappy— people like me are a little bit wnnanny atoni— people like me are a little bit unhappy about is— people like me are a little bit unhappy about is that the royal ianiiy— unhappy about is that the royal ianiiy ion-i— unhappy about is that the royal naniiy ion-i nay— unhappy about is that the royal family don't pay any inheritance tax. family don't pay any inheritance iav. we— family don't pay any inheritance iav. we ion-i— family don't pay any inheritance tax. we don't quite— family don't pay any inheritance tax. we don't quite know how nann— tax. we don't quite know how nwen ine— tax. we don't quite know how much the queen's private assets wee-iney— much the queen's private assets were, they probably were were, but they probably were annnoaening— were, but they probably were annnoaening i2— were, but they probably were approaching £2 billion. and, you know.— approaching £2 billion. and, you know, because— approaching £2 billion. and, you know, because they're very rich neonie— know, because they're very rich neonie ani— know, because they're very rich neonie ani iney— know, because they're very rich people and they they'd actually done— people and they they'd actually done a— people and they they'd actually done a special— people and they they'd actually done a special deal with john way-on—

done a special deal with john iiaion .— done a special deal with john iiaion . iney— done a special deal with john iiaion . iney-nay- major. they don't pay inheritance - major. they don't pay inheritance tax. meantime, i ininn— inheritance tax. meantime, i think another— inheritance tax. meantime, i think another point is the sheer wanie— think another point is the sheer wanie oi— think another point is the sheer waste of money— think another point is the sheer waste of money because. all nigni. — waste of money because. all nigni. ii— waste of money because. all nigni. ii on— waste of money because. all right. if our inheritance tax inai— right. if our inheritance tax inai we-ne— right. if our inheritance tax that we're paying to the government— that we're paying to the government was going to be new.— government was going to be nneni. weii— government was going to be nneni. weii .— government was going to be spent, well , if— government was going to be spent, well , if it— government was going to be spent, well , if it wasn't just spent, well, if it wasn't just going— spent, well, if it wasn't just going inio— spent, well, if it wasn't just going into this— spent, well, if it wasn't just going into this black hole of iwneawenaey— going into this black hole of bureaucracy, if— going into this black hole of bureaucracy, if for example, pennann— bureaucracy, if for example, nennann a— bureaucracy, if for example, perhaps a reduced rate of inheritance— perhaps a reduced rate of inheritance tax- perhaps a reduced rate of inheritance tax was going into a noveeing— inheritance tax was going into a sovereign wealth— inheritance tax was going into a sovereign wealth fund to benefit young— sovereign wealth fund to benefit yowng neonie— sovereign wealth fund to benefit young people ,_ sovereign wealth fund to benefit young people , i_ sovereign wealth fund to benefit young people , i mean, that would young people, i mean, that would be young people, i mean, that would ie a— young people, i mean, that would be a moon— young people, i mean, that would be a much better— young people, i mean, that would be a much better system. i think the be a much better system. i think we problem— be a much better system. i think we nnoiienn in.— be a much better system. i think the problem is, mike, that's yeah, that's the same for all tax. it just gets it all. yeah. we don't have hypothecation of tax as it's oh mike, tax as it's known. oh mike, thank you for joining tax as it's known. oh mike, thank you forjoining me the thank you for joining me on the program. thank you . elliot keck program. thank you. elliot keck joins me investigation campaign manager for the taxpayers alliance . so elliot basically alliance. so elliot basically the allowance is £325,000 for the allowance is £325,000 for the individual, after which once they've died, their estate, you pay they've died, their estate, you pay 40% tax. but it there is an add on of the 200 grand if it's add on of the 200 grand if it's a primary house that is being left either to children or grandchildren, nieces, nephews,

others don't count. yeah, but of course if it's a married couple, you know , one spouse dies , but you know, one spouse dies, but actually his or her allowance . actually his or her allowance. so actually, the argument is that many will give as to why the tax is reasonable is actually me. you know , the actually me. you know, the surviving parent dies up to £1 million. well, can go without tax. that's the argument you're going to get. yeah. against this campaign that's been launched. relaunched. yes by 50 mps. would the telegraph newspaper getting strongly behind it. yeah well i mean strongly behind it. yeah well i ine— strongly behind it. yeah well i mean the reason— strongly behind it. yeah well i mean the reason why- g i: e yeah welli mean the reason why there are so many— mean the reason why there are so many oi— mean the reason why there are so many oi inene— mean the reason why there are so many of these exemptions is ieeawne— many of these exemptions is ieeawne oi— many of these exemptions is because of actually how cruel inneniianee— because of actually how cruel inheritance tax— because of actually how cruel inheritance tax can be. it's a iaw— inheritance tax can be. it's a iav inai-n— inheritance tax can be. it's a tax that's unfair,— inheritance tax can be. it's a tax that's unfair, distortionary ani— tax that's unfair, distortionary ani ieeniy— tax that's unfair, distortionary and deeply unpopular. and it's the and deeply unpopular. and it's ine—in- the unpopularity that is ainoiwie— the unpopularity that is- absolute,_stunning. absolute, absolutely stunning. wnen— absolute, absolutely stunning.| when—statistics when you look at the statistics inai—naie- when you look at the statistics inai—naie a- when you look at the statistics that—made a big. that the treasury made a big ining— that the treasury made a big ining-in— that the treasury made a big thing-in their- that the treasury made a big thing in their comment to thing today in their comment to the thing today in their comment to ine ieiegnann— thing today in their comment to the telegraph about how only anoni— the telegraph about how only around-estates- the telegraph about how only around estates will around 7% of estates will pay inneniianee — around 7% of estates will pay inheritance-and- around 7% of estates will pay inheritance and yet 50% of inheritance tax and yet 50% of the inheritance tax and yet 50% of ine-nwiiie— inheritance tax and yet 50% of the-public think- inheritance tax and yet 50% of the public think this the british public think this tax the british public think this iavlwniain. — the british public think this tax-unfair. this- the british public think this tax unfair. this a tax tax is unfair. this is a tax inai— tax is unfair. this is a tax inai-oi— tax is unfair. this is a tax that-of those- tax is unfair. this is a tax that of those 50% of that a lot of those 50% of neonie— that a lot of those 50% of neonie viii— that a lot of those 50% of people will never, ever have to

that a lot of those 50% of peopand ill never, ever have to that a lot of those 50% of peopand yetiever, ever have to that a lot of those 50% of peopand yet they ever have to that a lot of those 50% of peopand yet they still have to that a lot of those 50% of peopand yet they still look! to that a lot of those 50% of peopand yet they still look at» pay. and yet they still look at inin— pay. and yet they still look at inn-iney— pay. and yet they still look at this-they think- pay. and yet they still look at this they think these are this and they think these are neonie— this and they think these are neonie inai— this and they think these are people that have saved up all inein—nave- people that have saved up all their-have-tax| their lives, that have paid tax on every— their lives, that have paid tax on every ningie— their lives, that have paid tax on every single pound that iney-ve— on every single pound that they've earned,— on every single pound that they've earned, single they've earned, every single nonna— they've earned, every single gonna—noenil they've earned, every single. pound—spent. and pound that they've spent. and yet pound that they've spent. and yei naving— pound that they've spent. and yet having accrued that wealth, naving—iney-ne- having worked hard, they're nwiieniy— suddenly going to lose half of anyining— suddenly going to lose half of anything relatively anything over a relatively aniiinany— anything over a relatively arbitrary amount . arbitrary amount. obviously, the house is very often the primary asset that leave when asset that people leave when they but there are many they die. but there are many other things too, that come into consideration, there? consideration, aren't there? yeah, and there's yeah, exactly. and there's so many— yeah, exactly. and there's so many exemptions. so many different exemptions. so you— many different exemptions. so yon—give- many different exemptions. so yon—give yownl you know, you can give your money— you know, you can give your money-an— you know, you can give your money-an iong- you know, you can give your money as long as you know, you can give your- money-as long as-don't money away as long as you don't die money away as long as you don't aie-neven— money away as long as you don't aie-neven yea - money away as long as you don't die seven years. there's die within seven years. there's a—inieneniing- die within seven years. there's a_interesting and| a really, really interesting and iizanne— a really, really interesting and bizarre—that- a really, really interesting and bizarre that think a really, really interesting and bizarrequite that think a really, really interesting and bizarrequite like that think a really, really interesting and bizarrequite like ifthat think a really, really interesting and bizarrequite like if you think a really, really interesting and bizarrequite like if you giveik you're quite like if you give money— you're quite like if you give money-political- you're quite like if you give money political party, then money to a political party, then inai— money to a political party, then inailevenni— money to a political party, then that-exempt from _ money to a political party, then that exempt from inheritance that is exempt from inheritance iaw.— that is exempt from inheritance iaw-noiiiieai- that is exempt from inheritance tax. political party tax. but that political party nan— tax. but that political party nan io— tax. but that political party nan io-ai— tax. but that political party has to-at least- tax. but that political party has to at least one seat has to have at least one seat ani— has to have at least one seat and oven— has to have at least one seat and over 150,000— has to have at least one seat and over 150,000 that and over 150,000 votes. that neann—give- and over 150,000 votes. thati means—give money and over 150,000 votes. that- means_give money to means that if you give money to nwnniiei— means that if you give money to nwnniiei-inai— means that if you give money to supplied _that will- means that if you give money to supplied that will be supplied comrie, that will be evenni— supplied comrie, that will be evenni inon — supplied comrie, that will be exempt from inheritance tax. but if exempt from inheritance tax. but ii-noney— exempt from inheritance tax. but if - money - brexit i if you give money to the brexit partyv— if you give money to the brexit nary-nai— if you give money to the brexit party,-had four- if you give money to the brexit party, had four times as party, which had four times as many— party, which had four times as many-an— party, which had four times as many-an ine— party, which had four times as many as the party, that many votes as the party, that won-i— many votes as the party, that won-ilevenni— many votes as the party, that won't exempt lived won't be exempt i've lived innowgn.— won't be exempt i've lived through-have- won't be exempt i've lived through. have all of through. so you have all of inene— through. so you have all of these utterly— through. so you have all of these utterly bizarre exemptions inai—in- that people can fiddle in order to that people can fiddle in order io-neiwee— that people can fiddle in order to-reduce what-a. that people can fiddle in order to reduce what a very to try and reduce what is a very enwei— to try and reduce what is a very enwei ani— to try and reduce what is a very cruel and unfair— to try and reduce what is a very cruel and unfair burden. / cruel and unfair burden. yeah, i

inini— cruel and unfair burden. yeah, i inini-a— cruel and unfair burden. yeah, i think a perception that think there is a perception that people have paid that money already. pay it already. they shouldn't pay it again. rich get out of again. the super rich get out of it anyway because they have effective tax planning. but let's eliot , these 50 let's be honest, eliot, these 50 mps, they're the same 50 mps that argue for free markets . that argue for free markets. they're the same 50 mps that argue that brexit is being wrecked and not being done properly. they're the same 50 mps that say that open door mass immigration on a level it is, is not doing the country much good, but with the way the conservative party has gone, they're very much in a minority. well they seem to be in a minority at the moment, but you know, this is one of those genuine taxes where actually it's unbelievably unfair. this is not a tax where i'm e e. “z: l. ” this is not a tax where i'm coming e l. “3:1; l. ” this is not a tax where i'm coming on inin— is not a tax where i'm coming on inin nnow— is not a tax where i'm coming on inin nnow io— is not a tax where i'm coming on this show to say— is not a tax where i'm coming on this show to say it's— is not a tax where i'm coming on this show to say it's bad for ine— this show to say it's bad for ine eononny— this show to say it's bad for the economy. and i hope people neaiine— the economy. and i hope people realise-actually,- the economy. and i hope people realise actually, you realise this, but actually, you ioon— realise this, but actually, you ioon-oninion- realise this, but actually, you look opinion polls and, look at the opinion polls and, you— look at the opinion polls and, you know.— look at the opinion polls and, you know, maybe— look at the opinion polls and, you know, maybe they point one way.— you know, maybe they point one way-nowa— you know, maybe they point one way-nonii yon— you know, maybe they point one way. could you point way. you could you could point to way. you could you could point io noneining— way. you could you could point to something like— way. you could you could point to something like a windfall tax wnene— to something like a windfall tax where—actually. where maybe there is actually a neniiwai— where maybe there is actually a residual popularity despite the negaiive— residual popularity despite the negative impact— residual popularity despite the negative impact has. is residual popularity despite the nttax ive impact has. is residual popularity despite the nttax that�*npact has. is residual popularity despite the nttax that even: has. is residual popularity despite the nttax that even thatas. is residual popularity despite the nttax that even that people is a tax that even that people ion-i—

a tax that even that people ion-i nay— a tax that even that people don't pay realise just how wniain— don't pay realise just how wniain ane— don't pay realise just how unfair are the— don't pay realise just how unfair are the political chances oi. — unfair are the political chances oi. ani— unfair are the political chances on and by— unfair are the political chances on and by ine— unfair are the political chances of. and by the way,- unfair are the political chances of. and by the way, i'd- unfair are the political chances of. “i: i: 01; unfair are the political chances of. “i: i: 0:1; i: of. and by the way, i'd get rid of. and by the way, i'd get rid of it. it's complicated and it actually drags in, particularly in greater london and the south. it drags in all sorts of people that certainly aren't rich by any real definition of that. yeah 40% of houses last year would qualify for. yeah. yeah. i mean, you know, yeah, absolutely. yeah. but politically, this isn't going to happen, is it? well, i don't know about that. you know, the connenvaiiven— know about that. you know, the conservatives are _ know about that. you know, the conservatives are going- you know, the conservatives are going to have to conservatives are going to have io iny— conservatives are going to have io iny ani— conservatives are going to have io iry ani io— conservatives are going to have to try and do something to win the to try and do something to win ine nexi— to try and do something to win the next election— to try and do something to win the next election and bringing inai— the next election and bringing that historic— the next election and bringing that historic tax— the next election and bringing that historic tax burden down is one-io— that historic tax burden down is one-io ii.— that historic tax burden down is one-io ii. ani- that historic tax burden down is one-do it. and you- that historic tax burden down is one do it. and you know, one way to do it. and you know, wnen— one way to do it. and you know, wnen yo-ve— one way to do it. and you know, wnen yo-ve goi— one way to do it. and you know, when you've got a— one way to do it. and you know, when you've got a tax that is so ieeniy— when you've got a tax that is so ieeniy nnian— when you've got a tax that is so deeply unfair, you— when you've got a tax that is so deeply unfair, you never know. it's deeply unfair, you never know. ii-n ieen— deeply unfair, you never know. in been a— deeply unfair, you never know. it's been a vote— deeply unfair, you never know. it's been a vote the it's been a vote winner in the nani. — it's been a vote winner in the nani. ii-n— it's been a vote winner in the past. it's-reason- it's been a vote winner in the past. it's reason why gordon past. it's the reason why gordon nnown— past. it's the reason why gordon nnown-go— past. it's the reason why gordon nnown-go io— past. it's the reason why gordon nnown-go io an- past. it's the reason why gordon brown go to an election brown didn't go to an election in ivo— brown didn't go to an election in iwo-ani- brown didn't go to an election in two-and seven.. in two thousand and seven. it wanliig— in two thousand and seven. it wanliiglniay- in two thousand and seven. it waslbigv-play for- in two thousand and seven. it was big, play for the was a big, big play for the conservatives— was a big, big play for the conservatives 2010, even if conservatives in 2010, even if iney— conservatives in 2010, even if iney iiin-i— conservatives in 2010, even if they didn't really— conservatives in 2010, even if they didn't really implement it. so, they didn't really implement it. so. you— they didn't really implement it. so. you know.— they didn't really implement it. so. you nnow-a— they didn't really implement it. so, you know, a proven vote so, you know, it's a proven vote —i- so, you know, it's a proven vote —i aiowil winner. in the past, i about didn't really implemented it yet another that another promise they made that it keep. let's it would actually keep. let's see. be popular.

see. it would be popular. i don't believe they're going to don't believe they're going to do it. but the great thing, elliott care about is as elliott care about people is as young is you've still got young as you is you've still got your well it's your optimism. well it's all we've got you got a bit we've got now, you got a bit more cynical. you. well, more cynical. thank you. well, it's it's an old it's as i say, it's an old campaign. i very much hope the campaign. i very much hope the campaign succeeds. i doubt very much it will. we've got much that it will. we've got time couple of quick time for a couple of quick barrage. the barrages. we're going with robert in going to start with robert in bradford. hi, nigel. i'm robert. what do bradford. hi, nigel. i'm robert. wnai—io io- bradford. hi, nigel. i'm robert. what—do to make. bradford. hi, nigel. i'm robert.| what—do to make the what would you do to make the noni— what would you do to make the eoni oi— what would you do to make the eoni oi iiving— what would you do to make the cost of living lower for these neonie— cost of living lower for these neonie io— cost of living lower for these neonie io iive— cost of living lower for these people to live a— cost of living lower for these people to live a normal life? wen.— people to live a normal life? weii. iani.— people to live a normal life? weii. iani. i— people to live a normal life? well, look, i think— people to live a normal life? well, look, i think it's- people to live a normal life? well, look, i think it's a- people to live a normal life? well, look, i think it's a very fair question, robert. the cost of living and i mean, it really is serious crisis for a lot of is a serious crisis for a lot of people. food, it's cetera. two quick say. number quick things. i'd say. number one is food . if we got on one is on food. if we got on with what brexit was meant to do and did trade deals with other parts of the world, we could actually reduce the price of many foodstuffs . and secondly, many foodstuffs. and secondly, energy. had clive moffat in energy. we had clive moffat in earlier today telling us earlier on today telling us about the huge cost that net zero is going to go on putting on people's energy bills for quite what i'm not sure if i've

got time for one more. let's take one from jade from bradford . hannah i'm just wondering how neonie— . hannah i'm just wondering how neonie gei— . hannah i'm just wondering how neonie gei on— hannah i'm just wondering how people get on proper care with the people get on proper care with ine nnieen— people get on proper care with ine nnieen oi— people get on proper care with the prices of the— people get on proper care with the prices of the rent and it's neaiiy— the prices of the rent and it's really expensive _ the prices of the rent and it's really expensive to be able to aiioni — really expensive to be able to aiioni wnen — really expensive to be able to afford when i— really expensive to be able to afford when i don't work and the money— afford when i don't work and the money i— afford when i don't work and the money i gei.— afford when i don't work and the money i gei. we— afford when i don't work and the money i get, we just survive . money i get, we just survive. ani— money i get, we just survive. and no— money i get, we just survive. and no in— money i get, we just survive. and so i'm just— money i get, we just survive. and so i'm just wondering if yo-ve— and so i'm just wondering if yo-ve goi— and so i'm just wondering if yo-ve goi any— and so i'm just wondering if you've got any advice .jade i'm you've got any advice. jade i'm neaiiy— you've got any advice. jade i'm neaiiy nonny— you've got any advice. jade i'm neaiiy nonny io— you've got any advice. jade i'm really sorry to say— you've got any advice. jade i'm really sorry to say that there are no easy answers to this. we-ve— are no easy answers to this. we-ve goi— are no easy answers to this. we-ve goi a— are no easy answers to this. we've got a massive- are no easy answers to this. we've got a massive crisis here. you know, demand and supply dictate prices in markets. they kind of always have. and i think they probably always will, despite what some government ministers may think. despite what some government ministers may think . and we have ministers may think. and we have an exploding population and we're not even building enough houses for people coming into the country every year , let the country every year, let alone jade for people of your generation , it is a major, major generation, it is a major, major problem . we have to through

problem. we have to through border controls, stabilise this massive rise in our population and we're going to have to start building. and i think new towns. i think post—war style, new towns may be the answer. i don't think just putting a couple of hundred houses in this village or that village works because you haven't got the infrastructure to go with it. i think when plan a new town, think when you plan a new town, you can do jade, it's a you can do it. but jade, it's a massive probably one massive question. probably one of the biggest problems is being faced being faced by faced challenges being faced by your generation is that they can't do, in many cases what their parents and grandparents actually took for granted . it actually took for granted. it will become a very big political issue in this country. i'm joined by jacob rees mogg . he joined by jacob rees mogg. he and i have both been at the cricket today. but don't tell the bosses that gb news whatever you do, jacob, did you have a good day? an excellent day. wann-i— good day? an excellent day. wann-i iie— good day? an excellent day. wasn't it? it— good day? an excellent day. wasn't it? it was— g: 01;7 an excellent day. wasn't it? it was good for ingianei— wasn't it? it was good for england, which is what we like to england, which is what we like io nee— england, which is what we like io ani— england, which is what we like to see and they— england, which is what we like to see and they were scoring at six runs an over— to see and they were scoring at six runs an over in— to see and they were scoring at six runs an over in our innings, wnien— six runs an over in our innings, wnen—evening- which was really exciting to waien. — which was really exciting to watch. exciting _ which was really exciting to- watch. exciting - need which was really exciting to- watch. exciting _need in watch. exciting what you need in test cricket. but no, absolutely. i mean, i loved it.

and jake, what have you got coming pocock on coming up tonight? pat pocock on to cricket but to talk about the cricket but before that this ridiculous covid other countries covid inquiry. other countries nave— covid inquiry. other countries have finished— covid inquiry. other countries have finished theirs.- co “3 “i: ”; other countries have finished theirs. yes, we've naniiy— have finished theirs. yes, we've naniiy nianiei. — have finished theirs. yes, we've hardly started. and need hardly started. and what we need to hardly started. and what we need io-owi— hardly started. and what we need io-owi in— hardly started. and what we need to-out is whether— hardly started. and what we need to out is whether the to find out is whether the restrictions— to find out is whether the restrictions necessary. what restrictions are necessary. what nnowii—iinee- restrictions are necessary. what should time? what restrictions are necessary. what. should _time? what did should we do next time? what did we-nignie— should we do next time? what did we-nignie wnai— should we do next time? what did we-right? what did— should we do next time? what did we right? what did we get we get right? what did we get wnong— we get right? what did we get wnong ani— we get right? what did we get wrong and what— we get right? what did we get wrong and what we're now oinennei— wrong and what we're now oinennei-in- wrong and what we're now obsessed is gossip about obsessed with is gossip about nininienn— ministers. whatsapps this is iani— ministers. whatsapps this is iani no— ministers. whatsapps this is just so trivial. _ ministers. whatsapps this is just so trivial. you've got to be just so trivial. you've got to ie—iii- just so trivial. you've got to. be_bit.politics be serious and a bit of politics ieeawne— be serious and a bit of politics because-johnson- be serious and a bit of politics because johnson in the because boris johnson in the iani— because boris johnson in the iani now— because boris johnson in the last hour has— because boris johnson in the last hour has issued a statement. - last hour has issued a statement. ” “ “ last hour has issued a- statement. boris johnson has said happy to said he's more than happy to hand all the unredacted hand over all the unredacted whatsapp notebooks whatsapp messages and notebooks to so to the inquiry. so he's clarified his position he's clarified his position that he's happy for it all to given happy for it all to be given oven happy for it all to be given over. the government over. but it's the government that it and jacob, that hasn't done it and jacob, they shifty. hold the they look shifty. hold the presses. but they look shifty. hold the presses . but i actually think presses. but i actually think the government— presses. but i actually think the government is- but i actually think the government is right. do you? ven. — the government is right. do you? ven. inai— the government is right. do you? ven. inai ive— the government is right. do you? yes. that i've looked at the act . eoon— yes. that i've looked at the act . eooi ioni. — yes. that i've looked at the act . good lord. and— yes. that i've looked at the act . good lord. and the act nnoviien— . good lord. and the act provides for— . good lord. and the act provides for the inquiry to ask for relevant— provides for the inquiry to ask for relevant information . an for relevant information. an in— for relevant information. an in noi— for relevant information. an in noi a— for relevant information. an it's not a great— for relevant information. an it's not a great fishing expedition— it's not a great fishing expedition for the to find expedition for the judge to find out expedition for the judge to find owi wnai— expedition for the judge to find out what people _ expedition for the judge to find out what people sent out what people have sent nnennaeng io— out what people have sent messages to other about messages to each other about naying.— messages to each other about naying. okay.— messages to each other about saying, okay. well we think wigei— saying, okay. well we think wigei nanage— saying, okay. well we think nigel farage is— saying, okay. well we think nigel farage is brilliant and iningn—wen.- nigel farage is brilliant and.

things—well, robert things like that. well, robert buckland sceptical, but buckland was more sceptical, but hey, are . let's have hey, there we are. let's have a look at the all important weather. i guarantee you, north easterly winds and dry evening. i'm alex deakin. this is your iaieni— i'm alex deakin. this is your latest weather— i'm alex deakin. this is your latest weather update from the wei— latest weather update from the iiei oniiee — latest weather update from the met office for— latest weather update from the met office for gb— latest weather update from the met office for gb news. today nann— met office for gb news. today nannn ine — met office for gb news. today marks the start— met office for gb news. today marks the start of— marks the start of meteorological summer and marks the start of— meteorological summer and for many— meteorological summer and for many ine— meteorological summer and for many ine nn— meteorological summer and for many the sun will— meteorological summer and for many the sun will continue to nnine. — many the sun will continue to nnine. ii— many the sun will continue to shine. it should— many the sun will continue to shine. it should be a brighter day— shine. it should be a brighter iay ionnonow— shine. it should be a brighter day tomorrow across parts of eanienn— day tomorrow across parts of eastern england.— day tomorrow across parts of eastern england. compared to ioiay— eastern england. compared to ioiay. ine— eastern england. compared to today, the weather is set. fair inannn— today, the weather is set. fair inannn io— today, the weather is set. fair thanks to this— today, the weather is set. fair thanks to this big— today, the weather is set. fair thanks to this big area of high pressure around— thanks to this big area of high pressure around that high, the ineee— pressure around that high, the ineee in— pressure around that high, the breeze is still— pressure around that high, the breeze is still feeding in from the breeze is still feeding in from ine nonin— breeze is still feeding in from the north sea— breeze is still feeding in from the north sea and that move given— the north sea and that move given ine— the north sea and that move gives the cloud— the north sea and that move gives the cloud back inland inning— gives the cloud back inland awning inin— gives the cloud back inland during this evening and ovennigni— during this evening and ovennigni .— during this evening and overnight . so turning overcast overnight. so turning overcast nnoni oi— overnight. so turning overcast across most of england into parin— across most of england into nanin oi— across most of england into nanin oi iani— across most of england into parts of east wales, southern seoiiani— parts of east wales, southern neoiiani an— parts of east wales, southern scotland as well— parts of east wales, southern scotland as well . extreme west scotland as well. extreme west woninenn— scotland as well. extreme west northern ireland— scotland as well. extreme west northern ireland and a good ononn— northern ireland and a good onwnn oi— northern ireland and a good chunk of scotland will stay iangeiy— chunk of scotland will stay iangeiy eiean— chunk of scotland will stay largely clear and here it will ionn— largely clear and here it will iwnn gwiie— largely clear and here it will turn quite-in- largely clear and here it will turn quite in northern turn quite chilly in northern semiann— turn quite chilly in northern seoiiani-a— turn quite chilly in northern scotland, a touch of frost scotland, even a touch of frost is scotland, even a touch of frost in nonniiie— scotland, even a touch of frost is possible,-most- scotland, even a touch of frost is possible, most will start is possible, but most will start iniiay— is possible, but most will start iniiay ai— is possible, but most will start friday at about— is possible, but most will start friday at about 8— is possible, but most will start friday at about 8 or 9 celsius. nai— friday at about 8 or 9 celsius. nai aino— friday at about 8 or 9 celsius. but also starting— friday at about 8 or 9 celsius. but also starting fairly cloudy i— but also starting fairly cloudy i-inai— but also starting fairly cloudy now. i-that cloud- but also starting fairly cloudy now. i that cloud will now. i think that cloud will wean— now. i think that cloud will inean wn— now. i think that cloud will inean an an— now. i think that cloud will break up as we— now. i think that cloud will break up as we go through friday nonning— break up as we go through friday morning reasonably quickly as

wet.— morning reasonably quickly as war-rm— morning reasonably quickly as well.-i'm more— morning reasonably quickly as well. i'm more optimistic well. and i'm more optimistic inai— well. and i'm more optimistic inai eanienn— well. and i'm more optimistic that eastern counties of ingiani— that eastern counties of england, where it has been dull and coin— england, where it has been dull and eoii aii— england, where it has been dull and cold all-will- england, where it has been dull and cold all will be a and cold all week, will be a iiiiie— and cold all week, will be a iiiiie iii— and cold all week, will be a little bit brighter. there will niiii— little bit brighter. there will still- breeze _ little bit brighter. there will still breeze bringing a still be a breeze bringing a eniiiy— still be a breeze bringing a eniiiy-inon— still be a breeze bringing a chilly-from the- still be a breeze bringing a chilly from the north sea. chilly feel from the north sea. so chilly feel from the north sea. so nneiiy— chilly feel from the north sea. so nneiiy inenn— chilly feel from the north sea. so pretty fresh on— chilly feel from the north sea. so pretty fresh on the coast , so pretty fresh on the coast, iai— so pretty fresh on the coast, iii a— so pretty fresh on the coast, but a sunnier_ so pretty fresh on the coast, but a sunnier day generally . but a sunnier day generally. moni— but a sunnier day generally. iioni niaeen— but a sunnier day generally. most places seeing sunny spells again— most places seeing sunny spells again .— most places seeing sunny spells again . weni— most places seeing sunny spells again . west-the- most places seeing sunny spells again . west the highest again. west will see the highest iennenaiwnen— again. west will see the highest temperatures, 20,— again. west will see the highest temperatures, 20, 21, maybe 22 ceiniwn— temperatures, 20, 21, maybe 22 ceiniwn. a— temperatures, 20, 21, maybe 22 ceiniwn. a iii— temperatures, 20, 21, maybe 22 celsius, a bit more— temperatures, 20, 21, maybe 22 celsius, a bit more cloud at inen— celsius, a bit more cloud at iinen. on— celsius, a bit more cloud at times. of course,- celsius, a bit more cloud at times. of course, the north—west of times. of course, the north—west oi seoiiani. — times. of course, the north—west of scotland, .cloud - of scotland, that cloud thickening— of scotland, that cloud thickening again of scotland, that cloud- thickening-again on thickening up here again on iniiay— thickening up here again on friday-little- thickening up here again on friday-little bit- thickening up here again on friday little bit of friday night. a little bit of inizzie— friday night. a little bit of drizzle likely— friday night. a little bit of drizzle likely the northern drizzle likely over the northern inien— drizzle likely over the northern inien-again— drizzle likely over the northern isles-again,-cloudl isles. and again, some cloud viii— isles. and again, some cloud wiii neen— isles. and again, some cloud will seep back— isles. and again, some cloud will seep back inland over eeninai— will seep back inland over central parts— will seep back inland over central parts of- will seep back inland over central parts of england. but on saiwniay— central parts of england. but on saiwniay aino— central parts of england. but on saturday also, although it may niani— saturday also, although it may niani a— saturday also, although it may niani a iii— saturday also, although it may start a bit misty— saturday also, although it may start a bit misty in these eeninai— start a bit misty in these central areas,— start a bit misty in these central areas, that low cloud nnowii— central areas, that low cloud should disappear and should be gone— should disappear and should be gone by— should disappear and should be gone by iaie— should disappear and should be gone by late morning. i'd of inowgni— gone by late morning. i'd of inowgni no— gone by late morning. i'd of thought so for— gone by late morning. i'd of thought so for most it's a sunny saiwniay— thought so for most it's a sunny saiwniay again.— thought so for most it's a sunny saturday again, a— thought so for most it's a sunny saturday again, a bit more cloud noninenn— saturday again, a bit more cloud over northern scotland, but genenaiiy— over northern scotland, but generally elsewhere lots of blue niy— generally elsewhere lots of blue nny. again.— generally elsewhere lots of blue nny. again. ii-ii— generally elsewhere lots of blue sky. again, it'll be— generally elsewhere lots of blue sky. again, it'll be western areas seeing— sky. again, it'll be western areas seeing the top temperatures 23, maybe a 24 on saiwniay. — temperatures 23, maybe a 24 on saiwniay. some— temperatures 23, maybe a 24 on saturday. some coasts, naniiewianiy— saturday. some coasts, particularly where we've got the ineee— particularly where we've got the ineee inon — particularly where we've got the breeze from the— particularly where we've got the breeze from the sea, will remain nainen— breeze from the sea, will remain nainen inenn. — breeze from the sea, will remain rather fresh. and _ breeze from the sea, will remain rather fresh. and it's a similar

niony— rather fresh. and it's a similar niony on— rather fresh. and it's a similar niony on sunny.— rather fresh. and it's a similar story on sunday. plenty of ninong— story on sunday. plenty of strong sunshine. uv levels will be strong sunshine. uv levels will ie nign— strong sunshine. uv levels will be nign an— strong sunshine. uv levels will be high, as will— strong sunshine. uv levels will be high, as will grass pollen ievein— be high, as will grass pollen ievein .—

good evening here with gb news. the good evening here with gb news. ine ion— good evening here with gb news. ine ion niony— good evening here with gb news. the top story tonight— good evening here with gb news. the top story tonight at— good evening here with gb news. the top story tonight at phillip schofield has told the sun newspaper this evening he's broken and ashamed over the affair he had with a younger male colleague at work at itv , male colleague at work at itv, but insists he did not groom him. mr schofield resigned from itv last week after admitting to what he called an unwise but not illegal relationship in his first interview since leaving daytime show this morning, he said he was deeply mortified and he will be forever sorry . he will be forever sorry. phillip schofield reportedly met

the man when he was 15 years old but said the affair didn't begin until he was much older. now, in other news today, boris johnson has repeated his insistence that the covid inquiry should be able to see all of his unredacted messages in their fullest form in his own letter to the inquiry this evening, he offered to hand over the requested material himself directly. the cabinet office today began legal action in a bid to challenge the inquiry order for the release of the former prime minister's messages and diaries . and messages and diaries. and earlier, the prime minister rishi sunak said the government was confident in its position , was confident in its position, responding to the covid inquiry's demand , officials then inquiry's demand, officials then ignored a 4 pm. deadline today to disclose the messages . labour to disclose the messages. labour has received a formal complaint over the conduct of the mp gareth davies. he was suspended by the party pending an

investigation into reports of