neil this week while he takes a break. coming up tonight on the show, we'll be looking into whether we are turning into a cashless society and what this will mean for the older generations and indeed, scaffolders. we will be looking into who can actually afford school fees these days. scaffolders again and asking if the end is in sight for private education. we will be hearing about a castle in scotland which could be yours for just about a castle in scotland which could be yours forjust £30,000. could be yours for just £30,000. but there's a catch. it's nothing to do with scaffolding, and i'll be asking why us.7 brits do love a ruin . all of that and do love a ruin. all of that and more coming up. but first, an update on the latest news from bethany ellzey . simon, thank bethany ellzey. simon, thank you.— bethany ellzey. simon, thank you. here-s— bethany ellzey. simon, thank you. here-s your— bethany ellzey. simon, thank you. here's your top- "g simon, thank you. here's your top stories from— you. here's your top stories from the— you. here's your top stories from the ea— you. here's your top stories from the gb newsroom. the prime minister,— from the gb newsroom. the prime minister, rishi_ from the gb newsroom. the prime minister, rishi sunak has offered— minister, rishi sunak has offered his— minister, rishi sunak has offered his condolences to the families— offered his condolences to the families of— offered his condolences to the

families of those— offered his condolences to the families of those killed in a train— families of those killed in a train crash— families of those killed in a train crash in— families of those killed in a train crash in india. families of those killed in a train crash in india . at least train crash in india. at least 288— train crash in india. at least 288 people— train crash in india. at least 288 people have died and around 850 ee— 288 people have died and around 850 are injured,— 288 people have died and around 850 are injured, making it the country-e— 850 are injured, making it the country's deadliest rail mement— country's deadliest rail incident in— country's deadliest rail incident in more than two decades.— incident in more than two decades. the— incident in more than two decades. the army has been deployed— decades. the army has been deployed ee— decades. the army has been deployed to help with the search and rescue operations. india as prime— and rescue operations. india as prime iiinieiei— and rescue operations. india as prime minister narendra modi has vieiiei— prime minister narendra modi has vieiiei iie— prime minister narendra modi has visited the site— prime minister narendra modi has visited the site in— prime minister narendra modi has visited the site in odisha sieie. — visited the site in odisha state. ihra_ visited the site in odisha state. ihra nana . : state. ihra nana. i am deeply pained . many passengers from pained. many passengers from different states have lost something during this journey. the people who have lost their lives. it's beyond sad and very disturbing. the government will leave no stone unturned and will provide the best treatment to the people who've been injured , the people who've been injured, the people who've been injured, the relatives who we've lost can't come back, but the government is with their families in this hour of grief, the epsom jockey club has praised the swift and decisive action of police after they detained two protesters at the

epsom derby as they tried to run on to the course. a in total, 31 pieieeieie— on to the course. a in total, 31 protesters have _ on to the course. a in total, 31 protesters have been- iii" itizi. a in total, 31 protesters have been arrested for eiiempiing— protesters have been arrested for attempting to disrupt the eveni— for attempting to disrupt the eveni ,— for attempting to disrupt the eveni , wiii— for attempting to disrupt the event , with 12— for attempting to disrupt the event , with 12 arrests made at event, with 12 arrests made at me— event, with 12 arrests made at iiie grounde— event, with 12 arrests made at the grounds. animal rising had had threatened— the grounds. animal rising had had threatened to cancel or eeveieiy— had threatened to cancel or severely delay— had threatened to cancel or severely delay the racing event. but severely delay the racing event. eui ii— severely delay the racing event. am i weni— severely delay the racing event. but it went ahead— severely delay the racing event. but it went ahead as planned. iiie— but it went ahead as planned. iiie group— but it went ahead as planned. iiie group hee— but it went ahead as planned. the group has accused surrey peiiee— the group has accused surrey peiiee ei— the group has accused surrey police of abusing— the group has accused surrey police of abusing their powers . police of abusing their powers. ani— police of abusing their powers. ani ieuiee— police of abusing their powers. and louise hill—wood from the group— and louise hill—wood from the group says— and louise hill—wood from the group eoye ripey-re— and louise hill—wood from the group says they're happy with todav's— group says they're happy with today's outcome— group says they're happy with today's outcome . today's outcome. that was one of our goals, but the second goal, and probably an extremely important one, is that we wanted to start a national conversation. we wanted people to be talking about what happened today, what happens to to be talking about what hap horsestoday, what happens to to be talking about what hap horsestodhorseiat happens to to be talking about what hap horsestodhorse racing pens to to be talking about what hap horsestodhorse racing ,ens to to be talking about what hap horsestodhorse racing , but to the horses in horse racing, but you know, also to animals in other industries. as you know, in sport , entertainment and in in sport, entertainment and in our food system . thousands of our food system. thousands of peopie— our food system. thousands of people attending— ” : sap thousands of people attending sports and music— people attending sports and music events— people attending sports and music events have faced major iierupiiorr— music events have faced major iierupiiorr ou— music events have faced major disruption on the— music events have faced major disruption on the rail network ioioy— disruption on the rail network ioioy oe— disruption on the rail network today as members of the aslef union— today as members of the aslef union go— today as members of the aslef union go on— today as members of the aslef union go on strike.— today as members of the aslef union go on strike. it's the inner— union go on strike. it's the nip day— union go on strike. it's the iniri day or— union go on strike. it's the third day of industrial action inie— third day of industrial action inie week— third day of industrial action this week affecting those iroveiiing— this week affecting those travelling to _ this week affecting those travelling to the epsom derby oni— travelling to the epsom derby and ine— travelling to the epsom derby and rne pg—

travelling to the epsom derby and the fa cup— travelling to the epsom derby and the fa cup final at wembley. sinf— and the fa cup final at wembley. sion oi— and the fa cup final at wembley. sion or is. — and the fa cup final at wembley. staff at 15. train— and the fa cup final at wembley. staff at 15. train operating eornonpiee— staff at 15. train operating companies have walked out in an ongoing— companies have walked out in an ongoing iiepuie— companies have walked out in an ongoing dispute over pay and eoniirione— ongoing dispute over pay and eoniiiione .— ongoing dispute over pay and conditions . philip's phillips conditions. philip's phillips senorieii— conditions. philip's phillips schofield says— conditions. philip's phillips schofield says he's afraid to ieove— schofield says he's afraid to ieove nie— schofield says he's afraid to leave his home— schofield says he's afraid to leave his home after admitting to leave his home after admitting ro on— leave his home after admitting ro on orien— leave his home after admitting to an affair with— leave his home after admitting to an affair with a— leave his home after admitting to an affair with a much younger moie— to an affair with a much younger male colleague— to an affair with a much younger male colleague at— to an affair with a much younger male colleague at this morning. ine— male colleague at this morning. ine ei— male colleague at this morning. ine or year— male colleague at this morning. ine or year oin— male colleague at this morning. the 61 year old resigned from riv— the 61 year old resigned from iiv oni— the 61 year old resigned from iiv and woe— the 61 year old resigned from itv and was dropped by his ioieni— itv and was dropped by his roienr agency— itv and was dropped by his talent agency over the scandal . talent agency over the scandal. in talent agency over the scandal. in o— talent agency over the scandal. in o ne— talent agency over the scandal. in a new interview— talent agency over the scandal. in a new interview with the sun , senoiieii— in a new interview with the sun , schofield says— in a new interview with the sun , schofield says he— in a new interview with the sun , schofield says he fears being spoi— , schofield says he fears being epoi on— , schofield says he fears being epoi on in— , schofield says he fears being epoi on in ine— , schofield says he fears being spat on in the street and that nee— spat on in the street and that ne-e gerring— spat on in the street and that ne-e gerring py— spat on in the street and that he's getting by hour by hour uiin— he's getting by hour by hour nirn euppon— he's getting by hour by hour with support from his daughters and friends— with support from his daughters and friends .— with support from his daughters and friends . diesel prices fell and friends. diesel prices fell by a— and friends. diesel prices fell by e record— and friends. diesel prices fell by e eeori or— and friends. diesel prices fell by a record of almost £0.12 last nonin— by a record of almost £0.12 last nonin ine— by a record of almost £0.12 last month, the biggest— by a record of almost £0.12 last month, the biggest drop for over two month, the biggest drop for over iuo ieeoiee. — month, the biggest drop for over two decades. the— month, the biggest drop for over two decades. the rac says the aeraeg— two decades. the rac says the aeraeg price— two decades. the rac says the average price of— two decades. the rac says the average price of diesel went non— average price of diesel went from roe-e— average price of diesel went from 158.9 pence to 140 £0.07 in may. — from 158.9 pence to 140 £0.07 in may. ire— from 158.9 pence to 140 £0.07 in may. we ine— from 158.9 pence to 140 £0.07 in may. it's the seventh consecutive - may. it's the seventh consecutive month in which uk pump— consecutive month in which uk pump prices— consecutive month in which uk punp prieee nave— consecutive month in which uk pump prices have fallen, reducing— pump prices have fallen, reducing the— pump prices have fallen, reducing the cost of filling up a typical— reducing the cost of filling up aiypieai raniiy— reducing the cost of filling up a typical family car by £6.50. renor— a typical family car by £6.50. petrol prices— a typical family car by £6.50. petrol prices also— a typical family car by £6.50.

petrol prices also fell by £0.03 iaer— petrol prices also fell by £0.03 iaer nonin— petrol prices also fell by £0.03 last month, with— petrol prices also fell by £0.03 last month, with ._ petrol prices also fell by £0.03 last month, with . and manchester last month, with. and manchester city last month, with. and manchester ciiy nave— last month, with. and manchester city have beaten— last month, with. and manchester city have beaten their rivals. iianeneerer— city have beaten their rivals. manchester united 2—1 to win the fa manchester united 2—1 to win the no cup— manchester united 2—1 to win the no cup iinai— manchester united 2—1 to win the no cup rinai ai— manchester united 2—1 to win the fa cup final at wembley. ilkay euniogan— fa cup final at wembley. ilkay gundogan scored— fa cup final at wembley. ilkay gundogan scored after 12 seconds. that's the fastest goal in iii— seconds. that's the fastest goal in no cup— seconds. that's the fastest goal in no cup iinai— seconds. that's the fastest goal in fa cup final history. united nruno— in fa cup final history. united bruno fernandes_ in fa cup final history. united bruno fernandes equalised by scoring— bruno fernandes equalised by scoring a— bruno fernandes equalised by scoring a penalty at 33 minutes, but scoring a penalty at 33 minutes, our eunaogan— scoring a penalty at 33 minutes, but gundogan scored another to reeiore— but gundogan scored another to reeiore cry-e— but gundogan scored another to restore city's lead— but gundogan scored another to restore city's lead six minutes inro— restore city's lead six minutes inio ine— restore city's lead six minutes into the second— restore city's lead six minutes into the second half. it means iney-re— into the second half. it means iney-re no— into the second half. it means iney-re on— into the second half. it means they're now on course to eonpieie— they're now on course to complete what's called the ireiie— complete what's called the treble winning— complete what's called the treble winning the premier ieague— treble winning the premier ieague, ine— treble winning the premier league, the fa— treble winning the premier league, the fa cup and the cnanpione— league, the fa cup and the champions league in the same season , which— champions league in the same season , which takes place next season, which takes place next saiuriay. — season, which takes place next saturday. you're _ season, which takes place next saturday. you're up to date on tv saturday. you're up to date on iv oniine— saturday. you're up to date on iv oniine ,— saturday. you're up to date on tv online , dab+_ saturday. you're up to date on tv online , dab+ radio and on tv online, dab+ radio and on rune— tv online, dab+ radio and on rune in.— tv online, dab+ radio and on rune in. inie— tv online, dab+ radio and on tune in. this is— tv online, dab+ radio and on tune in. this is gb- tv online, dab+ radio and on tune in. this is gb news. now ire— tune in. this is gb news. now in back— tune in. this is gb news. now in pack io— tune in. this is gb news. now in pack ro .— it's back to. simon iand_ it's back to. simon iand welcome- it's back to. simon and welcome back to neil oliver live with , simon evans. live with me, simon evans.

extraordinary the fa extraordinary scenes at the fa cup but i've got nothing cup final, but i've got nothing to about that. given the to say about that. given the opportunity to deliver one of these iconic saturday monologues, i was actually delighted, salivating delighted, almost salivating yesterday, to see a story broken in the telegraph ministers yesterday, to see a story broken in t a telegraph ministers yesterday, to see a story broken in t a chilling ph ministers yesterday, to see a story broken in t a chilling secret ministers yesterday, to see a story broken in t a chilling secret unit|isters had a chilling secret unit dunng had a chilling secret unit during covid to kerb lockdown dissent. they apparently flagged a perfectly legitimate online conversations about vaccine passports and so on, and what have been proven to be well—founded fears about government policy. they were scrutinised for signs of sedition. this this was a cause dear to my heart. the timing seemed almost too good to be true. well that story may well stand up, but it's not what i'm going to talk about this afternoon. instead, i wanted to talk about things that seem too good to be true. many years ago, possibly inspired by a desire to understand my recent decision to get married and have children, i picked up a book called irrationality by stuart sutherland. this was one of the first of a wave of such titles

which have since become a tsunami , a genre often referred tsunami, a genre often referred to as popular psychology. you'll find these books on the table called smart thinking in waterstones or in your local bookshop, and very tempting. they are too. i was for many years, borderline addict id. most of them have been published in the last 20 years, suggesting enormous progress in human understanding in that period. occasionally an old pretender like darwin, plato or william james will find its way onto that table and then be ushered back out like a shabby, bearded tramp. gatecrashing a silicon valley product launch. who later turns out to have been the founder. sutherland's book introduced me to various flaws, glitches , biases and errors in glitches, biases and errors in our thinking that limit the extent to which our brains guide us smoothly through the assault course of life . the rhyme as course of life. the rhyme as reason effect beloved of advertisers. survivor bias beloved of chatshows the availability heuristic . there is availability heuristic. there is availability heuristic. there is a long list of cognitive biases

now on wikipedia and fascinating . it is too. indeed, more recent books now with titles like twitch. what that annoying thing in your eyelid is trying to tell you? in your eyelid is trying to tell you.7 or in your eyelid is trying to tell you? or spleen. why nature's forgotten organ could hold the secret to your self—destructive behaviour . secret to your self—destructive behaviour. suggest that your brain is barely in charge at all. a figurehead at best, and every bit as apt to stumble up the steps of life as is president joe biden. your gut, for instance, is now thought to be as intelligent as a sheepdog and as as as desperate to attract your attention as well , attract your attention as well, and for you to entertain it. one that immediately struck me as describing a very real thing , describing a very real thing, however, is called confirmation bias, and it is now widely understood to be among the most powerful distortions affecting and hindering our grasp of the modern world. it's why we end up in those notorious echo chambers we hear about, or rather, why everyone else does while we alone roam free. confirmation

bias means that even if we don't actively seek evidence that what we already think is correct , we already think is correct, that sort of evidence is all that sort of evidence is all that has a chance of penetrating our thick blocks of wood. our exoskeletons of doubt , and exoskeletons of doubt, and anything that doesn't work with the grain of our pre—existing beliefs has very little chance of getting through . we don't of getting through. we don't even feel consciously hostile to it very often . contrary facts it very often. contrary facts just make us feel tired. thinking is tiring. it uses a surprisingly large amount of oxygen . the brain is a thirsty oxygen. the brain is a thirsty organ . i know mine oxygen. the brain is a thirsty organ. i know mine is and it burns large amounts of calories . adjusting established beliefs in the face of new evidence. sounds like a good habit to adopt, but then so did that gym membership last january, and so did starting every day with a cold shower. we have instead evolved various heuristics in the modern parlance, shortcuts essentially, that allow us to set the newborn chicks of discourse and sort them very quickly into battery or bin.

does this , we ask ourselves, does this, we ask ourselves, firstly feel all right, as thomas gill povich put it, for desired conclusions, we ask ourselves , can i believe this? ourselves, can i believe this? but for unpalatable conclusions we must ask, must i believe this? a couple of weeks ago, word went around that john cleese now a friend of this very channel, of course. but once upon a time, way back in my youth, a python, the very highest form of comedy life, john was going to remake life of bnan john was going to remake life of brian as a stage show. good news. but it was reported he was going to bow to shifts in popular taste and loss of appetite for cruelty and humour and remove the famous scene in which his character , reg, leader which his character, reg, leader of the people's front of judea, dendes of the people's front of judea, derides as delusional. the determination of his comrades. stan played by eric idle, to be known as loretta, and to have a baby where he wants to know is the foetus going to gestate in a

box ? well, that now sounds box? well, that now sounds transphobic, of course. and so there was a protest . did transphobic, of course. and so there was a protest. did this feel true? to me? it did. could i believe it? oh, yes. in a world where barely a day goes by without trans activists committing some fresh outrage against common sense , i against common sense, i certainly could not only could i believe it, i wrote a perfectly serviceable column about it for spiked online trans i wrote is the new church and mockery of it. the new blasphemy. my tone was elegiac, more disappointed than angry, lamenting the passing of the great british sense of humour and the ridiculous. the body to be cremated and the ashes to be sent god knows where. certainly not australia . only trouble was not australia. only trouble was it wasn't true. of course. please had taken a straw poll of reactions to that scene at the end of the read through. and that much was true. but he was not himself a straw in that wind. he was amused to see that it made some of his actors

uncomfortable, but he was standing firm the scene was standing firm and the scene was staying well, it would be staying in. well, it would be tempting at this point to say wider point still stands , wider point still stands, something i have nicknamed the pie deflection afterjonathan pie, the parody news presenter who was similarly gulled into thinking the worst of rishi sunak recently and refused to take the hit on the fact that i could believe this tells us something in itself, he said. yes what it tells us is that you, we, you, you, we, all of us are fallible , jonathan. even are fallible, jonathan. even even me and all vulnerable to wishful thinking. the price of liberty is eternal vigilance . liberty is eternal vigilance. the price of self respect to all lies in jest, sang my namesake paul simon, nearly 60 years ago. still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest. but the best we can hope to do is be aware that our gut to can be terribly mistaken . good boy. be terribly mistaken. good boy. though it's . well, all of that

though it's. well, all of that is my opinion , of course. and is my opinion, of course. and you're free to disagree. keep your tweets and emails coming all the time. you can email gb views at gb news .com . you can views at gb news .com. you can tweet me as well. g gb news. that's at gb news news. or you can tweet me directly if you like, at the simon evans . please like, at the simon evans. please keep it to the next hour or so at all. my feed getting bunged up for the rest of the week off the back of this show. i will try to get some of your comments into the show later on. joining me this me throughout the show this evening is the fabulous podcaster andrew, podcaster andrew gold. andrew, good evening. good afternoon. good evening. we're on cusp of two we're right on the cusp of two time dusk dumas time periods, dusk dumas feelings yet good dusk . feelings of dusk yet good dusk. that's a time to meet that's a nice time to meet people, isn't it? very people, isn't it? feels very homely way you look very homely on the way you look very handsome house. so what do you make of that little monologue there? diatribe against there? that diatribe against confirmation do you confirmation bias? do you encounter it much? oh, yeah. well, on well well, congratulations on a well aeiiverei— well, congratulations on a welli delivered—provoking delivered and thought provoking and-iron. —

delivered and thought provoking and-brow. thank- delivered and thought provoking and brow. thank you. and high brow. thank you. iionoiogue— and high brow. thank you. monologue. quite monologue. fantastic. quite a iong— monologue. fantastic. quite a iong period— monologue. fantastic. quite a iong perioa io— monologue. fantastic. quite a long period to get through in go. — long period to get through in go. ii— long period to get through in one go. it started- long period to get through in one go. c ”iii; one go. it started to feel quite unnatural. felt. i felt unnatural. i felt. i felt stressed for you. - 0. ”new ”rice i felt stressed for you. well wow. doing— stressed for you. well wow. noing inie— stressed for you. well wow. poing one is— stressed for you. well wow. doing this is no— stressed for you. well wow. doing this is no easy job. i was iioaieu— doing this is no easy job. i was iioaieu paci— doing this is no easy job. i was floated back to— doing this is no easy job. i was floated back to my— doing this is no easy job. i was floated back to my kitchen, explain to my wife. i was dishwasher should be stacked. the sheep dog and my gut are the same intelligence.— the sheep dog and my gut are the same intelligence. that's quite inereiiiie. — same intelligence. that's quite incredible. it's— same intelligence. that's quite incredible. g : incredible. it's extraordinary, isn't and what gut isn't it? and what your gut lacks, any means lacks, of course, is any means of communication other the of communication other than the fairly . yeah, mine's fairly vulgar. yeah, mine's going— fairly vulgar. yeah, mine's ioing ii— fairly vulgar. yeah, mine's ioing ii a— fairly vulgar. yeah, mine's doing it a little— fairly vulgar. yeah, mine's doing it a little bit- ”can 9?” yeah, mine's doing it a little bit right now. weir,— doing it a little bit right now. ireii, .._ doing it a little bit right now. ireii, i. ine— doing it a little bit right now. well, i. the confirmation bias all well, i. the confirmation bias aii ine— well, i. the confirmation bias aii rne rime.— well, i. the confirmation bias all the time. and— well, i. the confirmation bias all the time. and one of my former— all the time. and one of my former guests— all the time. and one of my former guests on- all the time. and one of my former guests on my podcast was peren— former guests on my podcast was reier—rne— former guests on my podcast was peter—the academic. peter boghossian, the academic uno— peter boghossian, the academic nno youe— peter boghossian, the academic nno youe nai— peter boghossian, the academic who you've had him on. great. rean— who you've had him on. great. vean nee— who you've had him on. great. yeah, he's brilliant. and he goes— yeah, he's brilliant. and he does something— yeah, he's brilliant. and he does something street does something called street epierenoiogy— does something called streetj epistemology _to epistemology and he goes to peopie— epistemology and he goes to peopie-a— epistemology and he goes to peopie-a reaiiy- epistemology and he goes to people a really it's a people and it's a really it's a reaiiy— people and it's a really it's a really wonderful— people and it's a really it's a really wonderful exercise where he really wonderful exercise where ne eaye — really wonderful exercise where ne eaye, okay,— really wonderful exercise where ne eaye, okaylie- really wonderful exercise where he says, okay, is what you he says, okay, this is what you inink— he says, okay, this is what you inink-knou. — he says, okay, this is what you think-know. -think| think you know. do you think a nano— think you know. do you think a trans woman is— think you know. do you think a trans woman is a— think you know. do you think a trans woman is a woman? for exanpie— trans woman is a woman? for exanpie e— trans woman is a woman? for exanpie pp..p._ trans woman is a woman? for example ? yeah. how strongly example? yeah. and how strongly do example? yeah. and how strongly ao-ieiieve— example? yeah. and how strongly do-believe-and- do you believe that? and they nigni— do you believe that? and they might-believe- do you believe that? and they might believe that eight might say, i believe that eight out might say, i believe that eight our of— might say, i believe that eight our of en. — might say, i believe that eight out of ten. and— might say, i believe that eight out of ten. and says, what out of ten. and he says, what nouri— out of ten. and he says, what uouia ii— out of ten. and he says, what would it take— out of ten. and he says, what would it take to— out of ten. and he says, what would it take to get to seven? rean— would it take to get to seven? vean i— would it take to get to seven? vean i fini— would it take to get to seven? yeah, i find that— would it take to get to seven? yeah, i find that really fascinating— yeah, i find that really fascinating because we don't engage— fascinating because we don't engage-or- fascinating because we don'ti engage-or-nina

engage that part of our mind enougn. — engage that part of our mind enough. -often- engage that part of our mind enough. often that's what enough. and so often that's what i enough. and so often that's what i inink— enough. and so often that's what i think debate— enough. and so often that's what i think debate -that- enough. and so often that's what i think debate that i i think debate should that is i ne— i think debate should that is i nela— i think debate should that is i mean, hela very— i think debate should that is i mean, he a very intelligent mean, he is a very intelligent guy— mean, he is a very intelligent guy-he— mean, he is a very intelligent guy-ne-aieo- mean, he is a very intelligent guy-he-also quite. mean, he is a very intelligent- guy-he-also quite brave. guy and he was also quite brave. he guy and he was also quite brave. na na— guy and he was also quite brave. ne aiong— guy and he was also quite brave. he was along with— guy and he was also quite brave. he was along with james- guy and he was also quite brave. he was along with james lindsay, wasn't and helen? oh yeah. wasn't he? and helen? oh yeah. anyway, they anyway, those three, they, they did on academia. anyway, those three, they, they did on academia . they did the scam on academia. they exposed at a time when it was exposed it at a time when it was still dangerous still quite dangerous potentially and potentially to go there. and it's more mainstream it's becoming more mainstream now. so, can also now. but even so, you can also see what he's doing there is see how what he's doing there is a bit like chris morris sketch a bit like a chris morris sketch as he's kind going, how as well. he's kind of going, how big threat of terrorism? big is the threat of terrorism? is it this big? you know, this kind of ludicrous, the exposure of the limitations of vox pops and the limitations of vox pops and the limitations of i do think that there of them? i do think that there is know, a tendency and in is a you know, a tendency and in a way , it's what i wanted to go a way, it's what i wanted to go over that monologue that we over in that monologue that we learn these heuristic learn about these heuristic arts. we learn about our cognitive and then cognitive biases, and then we carry making it's carry on making them. it's almost impossible to actually avoid step avoid it if you do take a step back, you sometimes think, back, you can sometimes think, hang but actually in the hang on, but actually in the flow of life, you can read as many books about it as you like. you remain the person you you will remain the person you are. yeah, very hard to are. yeah, it's very hard to enange.— are. yeah, it's very hard to enange. nun— are. yeah, it's very hard to change. but. but- are. yeah, it's very hard to- change. but. but-change, change. but. but you do change, ion-r— change. but. but you do change, ion-r-vou— change. but. but you do change, don't-you don't— change. but. but you do change, don't you don't have the don't you? you don't have the same views you _ don't you? you don't have the same views you had ten years ago

or same views you had ten years ago o-ago — same views you had ten years ago o-ago isuppose- same views you had ten years ago or- ago. isuppose the. or 20 years ago. i suppose the when evidence mounts up when the evidence mounts up eventually things don't eventually things change, don't they? that's what they? and i suppose that's what happened gradually, societal shifts. mean, the moment shifts. i mean, at the moment we're through we're going through a few, aren't and of them are aren't we? and some of them are possibly of a lot possibly reversals of a lot of campaigning. seems be based campaigning. seems to be based on idea that, you they on the idea that, you know, they say of particularly say now 3.5% of particularly annoying if they all act annoying people. if they all act in sort of concord together, can effect giant changes in society . but i begin to wonder if that actually holds true or whether actually, after a while, society begins back . yeah, begins to push back. yeah, i remember reading recently. i think it's james hewitt or i think it's james hewitt or james think it's james hewitt orjames iiarrioir— think it's james hewitt orjames iiarrioii in— think it's james hewitt orjames marriott in the— think it's james hewitt orjames marriott in the times he wrote aioui—eayingl about this and he was saying peopie— about this and he was saying peopie are— about this and he was saying peopie no— about this and he was saying people are no longer so scared of people are no longer so scared or urine— people are no longer so scared of twitter mobs. _ people are no longer so scared of twitter mobs. finally of twitter mobs. we finally eianea— of twitter mobs. we finally eianei ro— of twitter mobs. we finally started to realise when twitter aiong— started to realise when twitter came along ten,— started to realise when twitter came along ten, 15 years ago, we were-worried— came along ten, 15 years ago, we uereluorriea-a- came along ten, 15 years ago, we were-worried-a pile- came along ten, 15 years ago, we were worried a pile on were so worried about a pile on company— were so worried about a pile on company is— were so worried about a pile on company is really— were so worried about a pile on company is really worried about, you-orange. — company is really worried about, you-brands. and- company is really worried about, you brands. and now we you know, brands. and now we reaiiee— realise it's actually a tiny pereenrage— realise it's actually a tiny percentage very percentage of just very angry peopie.— percentage of just very angry people..doesn't_ percentage of just very angry people. doesn't any people. it doesn't make any inference— people. it doesn't make any difference to— people. it doesn't make any difference to sales. 4:3. difference to sales. you know, i did i— difference to sales. you know, i did i joke on a radio did i made a joke on a radio program last weekend, went out last weekend. it sounded as if it expense of people it was at the expense of people who long covid, although it

who have long covid, although it was intended slightly more was intended to be slightly more nuanced that. but they nuanced than that. but they are understandably a vocal understandably a very vocal bunch. well bunch. they are quite well organised and do feel organised and they do feel they've ignored and they've been ignored and belittled. so i got pile they've been ignored and be|and d. so i got pile they've been ignored and be|and d. know, got pile they've been ignored and be|and d. know, it's: pile they've been ignored and be|and d. know, it's notiile they've been ignored and be|and d. know, it's not ae on and you know, it's not a pleasant thing to wake up to on a sunday morning. not nice, you know. but i do, i also do recognise what saying recognise what you're saying that now you will that people know now you will come you'll come come through this, you'll come out side. thing to out the other side. the thing to do of course close your do is of course close your twitter. yeah, well, the worst ining — twitter. yeah, well, the worst ining ro — twitter. yeah, well, the worst ining o no — twitter. yeah, well, the worst rning o no is— twitter. yeah, well, the worst thing to do is to— yeah, well, the worst thing to do is to apologise ieeauee— thing to do is to apologise because then— thing to do is to apologise because then jump more and because then they jump more and the because then they jump more and ine-ie— because then they jump more and ine-ie neve— because then they jump more and the is never enough. the the apology is never enough. the nueiraring— the apology is never enough. the frustrating—saying. frustrating i get people saying iranepnoie— frustrating i get people saying transphobe_|'m- frustrating i get people saying transphobe i'm not. transphobe right? and i'm not. i'm -transphobe- transphobe right? and i'm not. i'm transphobe obviously. i'm not a transphobe obviously. i'm not a transphobe obviously. i-aon-i— i'm not a transphobe obviously. i-don't believe— i'm not a transphobe obviously. i-don't believe in- i'm not a transphobe obviously. i don't believe in some of i just don't believe in some of ine— i just don't believe in some of rne ininge— i just don't believe in some of the things that— i just don't believe in some of the things that are being said. ine—vieiil the things that are being said.- ine —vieii. yeahr the nonsense. yeah. well, yeah, but i'm the nonsense. yeah. well, yeah, but_ i'm careful.- but i'm careful. i'm careful. ana— but i'm careful. i'm careful. ana vvnai-e— but i'm careful. i'm careful. and what's the— f i'm careful. and what's the frustrating part is inev— and what's the frustrating part is inev-inev— and what's the frustrating part is they -they then - and what's the frustrating part is they they then message is they then they then message ani— is they then they then message and—i- is they then they then messagej and—i vanr and tweet to guests that i want to and tweet to guests that i want ro-on. — and tweet to guests that i want ro-on. i— and tweet to guests that i want to-on. i wanted— and tweet to guests that i want to-on. i wanted to- and tweet to guests that i want to on. i wanted to get leah to get on. i wanted to get leah remini— to get on. i wanted to get leah ieeninilning— to get on. i wanted to get leah remini,-king of— to get on. i wanted to get leah remini, king of queens remini, the king of queens aereeer— remini, the king of queens aereeei vno— remini, the king of queens actress who was— remini, the king of queens actress who was a former scientologist,_ actress who was a former scientologist, to about scientologist, to talk about seienroiogv. — scientology. so i'm tweeting virn— scientology. so i'm tweetingi virn—aii with her. and underneath all ineee— with her. and underneath all ineee peopie— with her. and underneath all these people well, you these people going, well, you enouian-r— these people going, well, you shouldn't-his- these people going, well, you shouldn't his thing. shouldn't go on his thing. he's a iranefen— shouldn't go on his thing. he's a transfer. but— shouldn't go on his thing. he's a transfer. but i'm— shouldn't go on his thing. he's a transfer. but i'm like, well, inai-e— a transfer. but i'm like, well, that's defamatory, really. it's inienering— that's defamatory, really. it's interfering - my - that's defamatory, really. it's interfering my work. interfering with my work. i've seen-veri- — interfering with my work. i've seen -well. there's - interfering with my work. i've seen -well. there's anl seen that as well. there's an mp who story that happen to

who long story that i happen to know jesse know vaguely called jesse norman, written a book, norman, who's written a book, and the book is about francis bacon in the sort of elizabethan rivalry cook, rivalry he had with edmund cook, you any time i speak you know, and any time i speak to it, good. see, to him about it, good. see, you've this book review and you've got this book review and stuff. somebody comes in and goes, when are you going sort goes, when are you going to sort out rivers? this like the out the rivers? this like the river? is filth it is river? why is filth it is extraordinary. you have extraordinary. i mean, you have to learn how to use twitter. you have to use social have to learn how to use social media generally. to media generally. you have to recognise you just recognise is that if you just like go with the flow, you will end up places you don't want end up in places you don't want to end up yeah i think to end up in. yeah i think that's something i've come that's something that i've come to recognise over the time i've been it started off been on it. it started off feeling much more like sort feeling much more like a sort of sunday afternoon in a saloon bar, you having a couple bar, you know, having a couple of quiet pints with mates of quiet pints with some mates and nowadays realise you're and nowadays you realise you're following goes up and you have responsibilities. even responsibilities. i hardly even porner— responsibilities. i hardly even bother-twitter- responsibilities. i hardly even. bother-twitter anymore bother with the twitter anymore no—aoe— bother with the twitter anymore now—does feel- bother with the twitter anymore now—does feel like . now because it does feel like ire— now because it does feel like its gone— now because it does feel like its gone a— now because it does feel like in gone a iii— now because it does feel like it's gone a bit-of- now because it does feel like it's gone a bit of fashion. it's gone a bit out of fashion. iiavie— it's gone a bit out of fashion. iiavie-iuei— it's gone a bit out of fashion. maybe just promote your maybe that's just promote your poaeaei—ieee- maybe that's just promote your podcast—less and. podcast on it, right? less and reap.— podcast on it, right? less and less.-even bother. - podcast on it, right? less and less. even bother. and less. i don't even bother. and inane— less. i don't even bother. and inar-e pariiv— less. i don't even bother. and that's partly because of vouiuie-e— that's partly because of youtube's i've that's partly because of youtu to s i've that's partly because of youtu to realise i've that's partly because of youtu to realise the 'e come to realise that all the going— come to realise that all the- going—poieaei. going on someone else's podcast, uneasi— going on someone else's podcast, unieee-ioe—

going on someone else's podcast, unieee-ioe ieogan— going on someone else's podcast, unless joe rogan, like all unless it is joe rogan, like all anar— unless it is joe rogan, like all ma pruri— unless it is joe rogan, like all that stuff, does— unless it is joe rogan, like all that stuff, does very little. if you— that stuff, does very little. if you pui— that stuff, does very little. if you pur our— that stuff, does very little. if you pur our a— that stuff, does very little. if you put out a really good video, inar-e— you put out a really good video, inane-peei— you put out a really good video, that's best possible thing that's the best possible thing because—mad- that's the best possible thing. because—madlthe because it just goes mad in the aigoriinn— because it just goes mad in the algorithm-that's— because it just goes mad in the algorithm that's how you get algorithm and that's how you get ne— okay.- algorithm and that's how you get ne— oiav. veri- new subscribers. okay, well that's information that's useful information to know as well. start a channel. okay, pensioner okay, coming up, a pensioner is forced retire from tennis forced to retire from tennis because her local leisure

listening to gb news radio . listening to gb news radio. vveieone— listening to gb news radio. welcome back— listening to gb news radio. welcome back to neil oliver live vviin — welcome back to neil oliver live with me. simon— welcome back to neil oliver live with me. simon evans- welcome back to neil oliver live with me. simon evans is cash king well, not for pensioner juliet casciano. the 80 year old has been forced to retire from her love of tennis because her local sports centre does not take cash . sounds like a racket take cash. sounds like a racket to me. julia had wanted to get back on court after taking seven months off bed rest following a second hip replacement operation . you would think that would be encouraged to get our old people back on their feet. but no. many people will welcome the inevitable move to a cashless

society and would argue it has already helped shorten supermarket queues and indeed unsightly pocket bulges. but others like juliet and several harry enfield characters from the 1980s feel they are being left behind. there is also the question of whether it gives the state more power. we've already seen evidence of that. when canadian prime ministerjustin trudeau froze the bank accounts of truckers who were protesting vaccine mandates, he couldn't have done that if they had taken cash. have done that if they had taken cash . i'm have done that if they had taken cash. i'm joined have done that if they had taken cash . i'm joined now by banking cash. i'm joined now by banking and payments consultant bob lydon . hello, bob. how are you ? lydon. hello, bob. how are you? hello. i'm well, very well. iveeiieni.— hello. i'm well, very well. excellent. in— i'm well, very well. excellent. in norfolk we still eaen— excellent. in norfolk we still use cash a lot.— excellent. in norfolk we still use cash a lot. are you? that's iniereeiing. — use cash a lot. are you? that's interesting. we're— use cash a lot. are you? that's interesting. we're in- use cash a lot. are you? that's interesting. �*fvi�*rzi; ”it; " \r interesting. we're in norfolk. are you wells next? the sea. oh, ieauiiiui— are you wells next? the sea. oh, peauiirui . — are you wells next? the sea. oh, beautiful . absolutely. i would beautiful. absolutely. iwould imagine you still take groats up there, but it's interesting you mentioned that my parents before

i start with the with the scripted questions, my parents actually live in norfolk. they live in a place called tacolneston, about ten miles south attleborough you south near attleborough. you probably part probably know that part of the world. and were actually world. and they were actually complaining recently that complaining to me recently that that attleborough and that i think attleborough and wyndham their wyndham are losing all their cash points they now have to cash points and they now have to travel 24 mile round trip to norwich to cash out . yes. norwich to get cash out. yes. yes, that's right . and- \..;;...p if." gr: rife" yes. yes, that's right . and that's yes, that's right. and that's vou— yes, that's right. and that's you know.— yes, that's right. and that's you know. ire— yes, that's right. and that's you know, it's a— yes, that's right. and that's you know, it's a knock on from ine— you know, it's a knock on from rne eerioue— you know, it's a knock on from the closure of— you know, it's a knock on from the closure of branches because pani— the closure of branches because bank branches— the closure of branches because bank branches go— the closure of branches because bank branches go the cash naenine. — bank branches go the cash machine. so— bank branches go the cash machine. so and that's the eiipperv— machine. so and that's the slippery storie— machine. so and that's the slippery slope which has never been— slippery slope which has never been challenged— slippery slope which has never been challenged by government, ieepiie— been challenged by government, aeepire nanv— been challenged by government, despite many pressure groups saying— despite many pressure groups eaving inie— despite many pressure groups eaving inie io— despite many pressure groups saying this is no— despite many pressure groups saying this is no good. but the proiien — saying this is no good. but the proiien ie— saying this is no good. but the problem is the— saying this is no good. but the problem is the government aeruaiiv— problem is the government actually agrees— problem is the government actually agrees with it all. you know— actually agrees with it all. you know from — actually agrees with it all. you know from the— actually agrees with it all. you know from the top down, the very top ,— know from the top down, the very rop . vou — know from the top down, the very rop . you know.— know from the top down, the very rop . you know. irr— know from the top down, the very top , you know, mr stanford top, you know, mr stanford univereiiv— top, you know, mr stanford university rishi sunak believes in reen— university rishi sunak believes in en .— university rishi sunak believes in en . ne— university rishi sunak believes in tech . he believes in fintech in tech. he believes in fintech aigiiai— in tech. he believes in fintech digital payments— in tech. he believes in fintech digital payments . and it's his digital payments. and it's his nanaaie— digital payments. and it's his mandate that— digital payments. and it's his mandate that under which the nann— mandate that under which the rank or— mandate that under which the bank of england— mandate that under which the bank of england are looking at

vvnai— bank of england are looking at vnar inev— bank of england are looking at what they call— bank of england are looking at what they call the digital pound.— what they call the digital pound, which— what they call the digital pound, which would replace all of pound, which would replace all or inn.— pound, which would replace all of this, replace _ pound, which would replace all of this, replace cash machines ani— of this, replace cash machines and make— of this, replace cash machines and make everything work. sonenovv— and make everything work. somehow they're not quite sure nov— somehow they're not quite sure nov ire— somehow they're not quite sure now in going— somehow they're not quite sure now in going ro— somehow they're not quite sure how it's going to work , but how it's going to work, but nevertheless, _ how it's going to work, but nevertheless, just trust us and evervrning— nevertheless, just trust us and evervrning viii— nevertheless, just trust us and everything will be fine. that's the everything will be fine. that's rne neeeage— everything will be fine. that's rne age .— everything will be fine. that's the message . farage do you feel the message. farage do you feel it's the message. farage do you feel its a— the message. farage do you feel its a eon— the message. farage do you feel its a eon oi— the message. farage do you feel it's a sort of philosophical poeiiion— it's a sort of philosophical position, almost like a disposition— position, almost like a disposition ,- position, almost like a disposition , a sentimental disposition, a sentimental attachment— disposition, a sentimental attachment that certain people nave — attachment that certain people nave ro — attachment that certain people have to everything going digital as a eon— have to everything going digital as a eon oi— have to everything going digital as a sort of fundamental propoeiiion— as a sort of fundamental proposition ? - as a sort of fundamental proposition ? 39°c“ g as a sort of fundamental- proposition ? well, no , it's you proposition? well, no, it's you see cash being used it to buy your leg without any . okay. i'm your leg without any. okay. i'm afraid . rather ironically, our afraid. rather ironically, our digital connection there as though to demonstrate the unreliability of the digital world as if we'd had him here in physical form, like cash, we'd have been fine . what do you

have been fine. what do you think about this? i mean , you're think about this? i mean, you're a young person, obviously younger than me. still got your hair. you might be the same age. have hair? that's have you got your hair? that's how get away it. yeah, how you get away with it. yeah, i sometimes wonder whether it i do sometimes wonder whether it is a generational thing is just a generational thing that we come into that we all have. we come into the world where there's a certain sort set of certain sort of set of parameters that dominate the certain conventions that seem normal us, but perhaps aren't normal to us, but perhaps aren't normal to us, but perhaps aren't normal perhaps in 10 or normal at all. perhaps in 10 or 15 years, we'll wonder why we ever thought it was more sensible to walk around with these strange plastic these strange papery plastic tokens. yeah, i think i think that i know if i'm a young that i don't know if i'm a young i'm 34, so i'm teetering over that i don't know if i'm a young i'm edgeo i'm teetering over that i don't know if i'm a young i'm edge of�*m teetering over that i don't know if i'm a young i'm edge of that. andg over that i don't know if i'm a young i'm edge of that. and i over that i don't know if i'm a young i'm edge of that. and i amr that i don't know if i'm a young i'm edge of that. and i am very the edge of that. and i am very nuan— the edge of that. and i am very nuen or— the edge of that. and i am very nuen or a— the edge of that. and i am very nuen or a eon— the edge of that. and i am very much of a sort of— 33 and i am very much of a sort of everything in noieraiion— much of a sort of everything in moderation kind— much of a sort of everything in moderation kind of person. so i see-ire— moderation kind of person. so i can see it's moving very can see how it's moving very faer— can see how it's moving very no for— can see how it's moving very fast for people _ can see how it's moving very fast for people from different fast for people from a different generaiion— generation. it might be difficult— generation. it might be difficult-at. generation. it might bei difficult-at the generation. it might be- difficult-at the same difficult for them. at the same rime.— difficult for them. at the same pp... i— difficult for them. at the same time, i wonder— difficult for them. at the same time, i wonder if— difficult for them. at the same time, i wonder if we condescend a-i-ve— time, i wonder if we condescend a-i-ve puer— time, i wonder if we condescend a-i-ve iuei none- a little bit. i've just done an inierviev— a little bit. i've just done an interview richard dawkins, interview with richard dawkins, i interview with richard dawkins, i—ne— interview with richard dawkins, i—ne popped- interview with richard dawkins,j i—ne poppea i think he's 83. he popped over for i think he's 83. he popped over ior ine— i think he's 83. he popped over for the podcast.— i think he's 83. he popped over for the podcast. got his for the podcast. he's got his poaeaei— for the podcast. he's got his own podcast-out.- for the podcast. he's got his own podcast out. he's own podcast coming out. he's rooting— own podcast coming out. he's iooving ai— own podcast coming out. he's iooving ai ine— own podcast coming out. he's looking at the cameras and eruri. — looking at the cameras and eruri. vou— looking at the cameras and stuff. you can— looking at the cameras and stuff. you can use card. now. stuff. you can use a card. now. nee— stuff. you can use a card. now. he's—intelligent. he's particularly intelligent. okay.— he's particularly intelligent. okay-spoke- he's particularly intelligent. carav-epove io- he's particularly intelligent. okay, spoke to my

okay, but i spoke to my dad aioui— okay, but i spoke to my dad aioui inie— okay, but i spoke to my dad about this before as well. he's nee— about this before as well. he's he's intelligent.— about this before as well. he's he's intelligent. _ about this before as well. he's he's intelligent. 'r: about this before as well. he's he's intelligent. ' r: he's intelligent. and also sorry to well to interrupt, but he's well funded, he? there some funded, isn't he? there are some people struggle bit people who struggle a little bit possibly in terms of possibly to adapt in terms of intelligence or, know, just intelligence or, you know, just age, who, you know, age, but also who, you know, might expensive to might find it expensive to actually able all actually be able to adopt all these new measures? well, it's just of what i might not be just sort of what i might not be fully understanding because fully understanding it because as i can, know, debit as far as i can, you know, debit card, you go and for card, you go and pay for something go, beep, something and you go, beep, yeah. what's what's the difficulty? _ yeah. what's what's the difficulty? on,- “415?" what's what's the difficulty? o" �*" yeah. what's what's the difficulty? oh, well, if if difficulty? oh, well, if you if it's something that takes a debit card, there's no difficulty. instance, my difficulty. but for instance, my parents who, as i say, complaining now, they struggled to have a cleaner to get cash. they have a cleaner who fortnight and who comes once a fortnight and she to take cash, not she wants to take cash, not least because doesn't always she wants to take cash, not least btheise doesn't always she wants to take cash, not least btheise amount. always she wants to take cash, not least btheise amount. she iys charge the same amount. she might get there and go, well, this is going to three hours this is going to be three hours work i've done some ironing work or i've done some ironing for so they could set up for you. so they could set up a direct they you direct debit. they could, you know mean? but actually know what i mean? but actually these are difficult these things are quite difficult once you're in 80s, you once you're in your 80s, you know, of these things are know, some of these things are intimidating also they have intimidating and also they have a all that sort of a gardener and all that sort of thing as mean, i'm thing as well. i mean, i'm making them sound like they're living middle

living a nice, pleasant middle class either class lifestyle, but they either would garden or they would have a garden or they would have a garden or they would sleeping would disappear, like sleeping beauty behind bushes beauty behind the rose bushes quite i mean, there quite quickly. but i mean, there is i think, you know, is also i think, you know, i don't know if this is the elephant the or whether elephant in the room or whether people are avoiding talking about think is a about it. but i think there is a temptation often avoid the temptation often to avoid the some people prefer cash because they can avoid paying tax. right. the builders, right. you get in the builders, you have 2 or 3 grand's you might have 2 or 3 grand's worth of done might worth of work done and you might think, we, can we, think, how much can we, can we, you know, and i suppose legitimately that is a concern to the government. well, exactly. and that's of exactly. and that's one of the main-inane— exactly. and that's one of thei main -that's-going main things that's going going to main things that's going going ro—inen— main things that's going going ro—inen ae- main things that's going going ro—inen ae voul main things that's going going. to _then as you were to change. but then as you were saying— to change. but then as you were eaving anar— to change. but then as you were saying that-stuff- to change. but then as you were saying that-stuff is- saying that trudeau stuff is nine.— saying that trudeau stuff is p... ringing.— saying that trudeau stuff is fine, tingling, you know, ininving— fine, tingling, you know,- ininving—nv. thinking about that, oh, my. inai— thinking about that, oh, my. inai-i— thinking about that, oh, my. that-i couldn't- thinking about that, oh, my. that i couldn't believe that he was i couldn't believe inan— that he was i couldn't believe inar. ani— that he was i couldn't believe inar. and i— that he was i couldn't believe that. and i can't— that he was i couldn't believe that. and i can't believe that anar— that. and i can't believe that inn—spoken- that. and i can't believe thati that—spoken about that. and i can't believe that that that spoken about that. and i can't believe that that that just)oken about that. and i can't believe that that that just stopped out more, that he just stopped peopie—fueri more, that he just stopped- people_just because people having money just because he didn't agree with their noiiing— he didn't agree with their holding money. ' r: he didn't agree with their- holding-money. and also holding their money. and also anore— holding their money. and also mere-vero- holding their money. and also rnere-vvere a- holding their money. and also there-were a.ofl there was there were a lot of attempts to raise money for them. there were plenty of people saw people in america who saw that they kind of heroes over they were kind of heroes over they were kind of heroes over the who and they had the border who and they had gofundmes those gofundmes or whatever. and those were and then gofundmes or whatever. and those were of and then gofundmes or whatever. and those were of the and then gofundmes or whatever. and those were of the charitiesid then gofundmes or whatever. and those were of the charities i'm�*ien some of the charities i'm getting down slightly getting down a slightly different rabbit hole. but this did some the of

did happen. some of the some of the had raised the platforms that had raised money don't the platforms that had raised mone which don't the platforms that had raised mone which ones don't the platforms that had raised mone which ones it don't the platforms that had raised mone which ones it was don't the platforms that had raised mone which ones it was decided, know which ones it was decided, which, alternative which, which alternative good causes go to causes that money would go to because going to the because it wasn't going to the truckers. as truckers. that struck me as absolute extraordinary. but but equally, i mean, there's a podcast know if podcast you probably know if you're called you're a podcaster called trigonometry. yes. and they recently had their bank account closed because the bank disagreed with the teller and they far extremist by they are far from extremist by any. i mean, they are very much in with gb news kind of in line with gb news kind of approach discourse. was that approach to discourse. was that was paypal approach to discourse. was that nae-ravrai or— approach to discourse. was that was-paypal or was-it- was that paypal or was it. it nae-ni— was that paypal or was it. it vvae-ni ravrai— was that paypal or was it. it wasn't paypal ,— was that paypal or was it. it wasn't paypal , but it was wasn't paypal, but it was eoneining— wasn't paypal, but it was eoneining i— wasn't paypal, but it was something i cannot remember the -uigirai.— something i cannot remember the name. -digital, one- something i cannot remember thei name. -digital, one-those name. some digital, one of those slightly will slightly trendy banks that will try out that they're try and make out that they're actually like actually a slightly like a happier, funnier , more happier, smoother, funnier, more likely a friend. you go for a walk in the park with and they just to have know walk in the park with and they jus'credit to have know walk in the park with and they jus'credit facility ave know walk in the park with and they jus'credit facility ones know walk in the park with and they jus'credit facility ones and know walk in the park with and they jus'credit facility ones and itnow , a credit facility ones and it turns they're always the turns out they're always the sinister know, is sinister ones. you know, this is the thing. what do you think? the thing. so what do you think? i i do remember there i mean, i do remember there there joke that there was a famous joke that went the 70s. was a went around in the 70s. i was a kid at time, decimalisation kid at the time, decimalisation in about 1971. what everyone kid at the time, decimalisation in alwas1971. what everyone kid at the time, decimalisation in alwas they what everyone kid at the time, decimalisation in alwas they should at everyone kid at the time, decimalisation in alwas they should at ev

but i do wonder whether it is just one of those things we're going have to adapt to. do going to have to adapt to. do you last the decade you think it'll last the decade cash at this cash in any form at this point, maybe a few years. i don't know cash in any form at this point, maybe raboutfears. i don't know cash in any form at this point, maybe rabout itars. i don't know cash in any form at this point, maybe about it really, don't know cash in any form at this point, maybe about it really, except now enough about it really, except to enough about it really, except io-eeene— enough about it really, except io-eeenelnv- enough about it really, except to seems my fairly to say it seems in my fairly young— to say it seems in my fairly young-io— to say it seems in my fairly young-to make- to say it seems in my fairly young to make sense that to say it seems in my fairly- young-to make sense that we young mind to make sense that we nouri— young mind to make sense that we vouia vou— young mind to make sense that we vouia you know.— young mind to make sense that we would you know, that we would use-ii— would you know, that we would uee-ii-ii-e— would you know, that we would use-ii-ir-e eo- would you know, that we would use-it-it's so much. use card. it just it's so much easier-ido— use card. it just it's so much easier.ido worry,- use card. it just it's so much easier. do worry, though, easier. i do worry, though, apour— easier. i do worry, though, aioui ine— easier. i do worry, though, about the privacy concerns and vnar—poverl about the privacy concerns and. vvnai—povver inev what government the power they nave. — what government the power they nave. .wgn,_ what government the power they nave-vein i— what government the power they have.-well, i will- what government the power they have. well, i will be one have. yeah well, i will be one of have. yeah well, i will be one or inope— have. yeah well, i will be one of those left— have. yeah well, i will be one of those left bereft. i know. i onii— of those left bereft. i know. i still remember the good old days . you could do the double at the comedy store. double at the banana and home with £800 comedy store. double at the bayour and home with £800 comedy store. double at the bayour and but)me with £800 comedy store. double at the bayour and but there 'ith £800 comedy store. double at the bayour and but there we £800 in your pocket. but there we are. days. joining me are. happy days. joining me after the break, christopher mcgovern , the chairman the mcgovern, the chairman of the campaign real education, who campaign for real education, who believes the private school system in serious danger of system is in serious danger of collapse as fees continue to rise. be back

from 9.30 on sunday morning. iand— from 9.30 on sunday morning. |anu vveinne— from 9.30 on sunday morning. i and welcome back- from 9.30 on sunday morning. . and welcome back to - from 9.30 on sunday morning. and welcome back to neil oliver from 9.30 on sunday morning. and welc yourback to neil oliver from 9.30 on sunday morning. and welc your cash to neil oliver from 9.30 on sunday morning. and welc your cash onlytil oliver live with me. your cash only host simon evans. it looks

likely that soon only the super rich will be able to afford to give their children private education. that's under proposals by sir keir starmer and a future labour government. when people think of private education, many already of course, picture toffs in top hats attending elite schools such as eton and saint paul's. but thousands of slightly less prestigious and slightly less expensive schools will also be affected. labour says, adding vat will raise about £1.6 billion a year to help recruit more staff in vital subjects such as maths and physics in the state sector. though we all know that's not how tax works . but that's not how tax works. but will all those independent schools even survive to pay their tax? many parents are already struggling to cover the fees . might they not just give fees. might they not just give up entirely ? what then to up entirely? what then to discuss this, i'm joined by chairman of the campaign for real education, chris mcgovern. hello, chris. hi there. hi so we've got a good signal. good

camera angle. we're confident this conversation is going to see its full length spread out before it before i start. and for those who might not be familiar with it, can you give us a very brief and succinct summary of what the campaign for real education regards as real education? well, the campaign for real education started in the 1980s, and we were set up originally to defend grammar schools. but originally to defend grammar schools . but essentially we schools. but essentially we ieiieve— schools. but essentially we ieiieve in— f but essentially we believe in education actually eiueaie. — believe in education actually eiueaie. so.— believe in education actually educate. so, for— believe in education actually educate. so, for example, we verv— educate. so, for example, we verv errong— educate. so, for example, we were very strong from the beginning— were very strong from the beginning and— were very strong from the beginning and teaching children pnoniee— beginning and teaching children pnoniee .— beginning and teaching children phonics , which— beginning and teaching children phonics , which had been in the phonics, which had been in the guire— phonics, which had been in the news quite recently. our argunenie— news quite recently. our arguments proved to right arguments proved to be right are— arguments proved to be right arae-so— arguments proved to be right arier-so or— arguments proved to be right after-50 or 60- arguments proved to be right after 50 or 60 years, we after sort of 50 or 60 years, we peiieve— after sort of 50 or 60 years, we ieiieve in— after sort of 50 or 60 years, we ieiieve in a— after sort of 50 or 60 years, we believe in a more— after sort of 50 or 60 years, we believe in a more traditional approaen— believe in a more traditional approach education, similar approach to education, similar to approach to education, similar io-onee— approach to education, similar to-ones which— approach to education, similar to ones which perhaps you to the ones which perhaps you get to the ones which perhaps you gei—ae- get in countries such as singapore— get in countries such as singapore-in- get in countries such as singapore in shanghai, get in countries such as- singapore-in shanghai, in singapore or or in shanghai, in cnina— singapore or or in shanghai, in cnina or— singapore or or in shanghai, in china or japan.— singapore or or in shanghai, in china or japan. a— singapore or or in shanghai, in china or japan. a more china orjapan. a more traditional— china orjapan. a more. traditional-which china orjapan. a more- traditional-which was traditional approach which was common-ine- traditional approach which was common-the 50s.- traditional approach which was common the 50s. now common here in the 50s. now vve-ere-ounirv- common here in the 50s. now we're-countrylthel we're the only country in the ieveiopea— we're the only country in the developed world— developed world where grandparents outperform their grandchildren.— grandchildren. so yes, we ieiieve— grandchildren. so yes, we- believe—learning believe we believe in learning your— believe we believe in learning your-ani— believe we believe in learning vour-ani going- believe we believe in learning your-and doing a- believe we believe in learning your and doing a bit of your tables and doing a bit of ore— your tables and doing a bit of roie iearning— your tables and doing a bit of rote learning occasionally . and rote learning occasionally. and we rote learning occasionally. and vve-ir— rote learning occasionally. and vve-ir ine— rote learning occasionally. and we-in the teacher- rote learning occasionally. and we in the teacher the we believe in the teacher at the nonr—rainer-

we believe in the teacher at the front—rather than i front of the class rather than reaenere— teachers wandering between iinereni— teachers wandering betweeni different—forth. different tables and so forth. so different tables and so forth. so pareniai— different tables and so forth. so parental choice, more traditional— so parental choice, more traditional approach. and really— traditional approach. and really, when— traditional approach. and really, when we say real, we mean an approach that works. so anar— mean an approach that works. so inai our— mean an approach that works. so that our-actually— mean an approach that works. so that our actually can that our kids actually can eonpeie— that our kids actually can compete with— that our kids actually can compete with the best. viii“ compete with the best. well, you-ve— compete with the best. well, vou-ve-ne— compete with the best. well, you've me absolutely on you've sold me absolutely on board with all of that. so presumably don't have a presumably you don't have a strong moral position on independent schooling one way or the other in terms of the privileged and so on. it bestows and whether that's good, it's more a question of what those schools offer in terms of an actual education. absolutely . actual education. absolutely. vie-re— actual education. absolutely. we're non—political- actual education. absolutely. we're non—political .- elf ci: l. rte. " absolutely. we're non—political . we at ci: l. ta. " absolutely. we're non—political . we tend at. ci: l. ta. " absolutely. we're non—political . we tend to we're non—political. we tend to be en— we're non—political. we tend to be seen as being— we're non—political. we tend to be seen as being more on the igne— be seen as being more on the rigni. nui— be seen as being more on the right. but actually i served on the right. but actually i served on rne ruc— right. but actually i served on rne iiic .— right. but actually i served on rne iiic . eo— right. but actually i served on rne iiic . so i— right. but actually i served on the tuc , so i don't call that the tuc, so i don't call that panieuiariv— the tuc, so i don't call that particularly right wing . we particularly right wing. we favour— particularly right wing. we favour-and- particularly right wing. we favour and what i would favour quality and what i would say,— favour quality and what i would say vou— favour quality and what i would say vou know.— favour quality and what i would say vou know. in— favour quality and what i would say, you know, in this country ani— say, you know, in this country and-rained— say, you know, in this country and-talked about- say, you know, in this country and talked about this in and i've talked about this in ine— and i've talked about this in rne oxford— and i've talked about this in the oxford union and so forth, caniriage—al cambridge union, there's a divine.— cambridge union, there's a divine-ire— cambridge union, there's a divide,-it's not- cambridge union, there's a divide, it's not really divide, but it's not really ieivveen— divide, but it's not really between private sector and the eiaie— between private sector and the eiaie eeeoni — between private sector and the state sector. it's— between private sector and the state sector. it's a— between private sector and the state sector. it's a divide ieivveen— state sector. it's a divide between on _ state sector. it's a divide between on good schools and inaieguare— between on good schools and inadequate schools. and if vouve— inadequate schools. and if vouve goi— inadequate schools. and if vouve goi a— inadequate schools. and if you've got a lot- inadequate schools. and if you've got a lot of money, yeah, you— you've got a lot of money, yeah, vou an— you've got a lot of money, yeah, vou go— you've got a lot of money, yeah, vou go ro— you've got a lot of money, yeah, vou go o a— you've got a lot of money, yeah, you can go to a private school or vou— you can go to a private school or vou buy— you can go to a private school or vou buy a— you can go to a private school or you can buy a house in the

earenneni— or you can buy a house in the earenneni-a- or you can buy a house in the catchment-a good- or you can buy a house in the catchment a good state catchment area of a good state eenooi. — catchment area of a good state eenooi. ive— catchment area of a good state school..we have— catchment area of a good state school. we have schools school. so we have good schools ani— school. so we have good schools and—proiieni school. so we have good schools. and—proiien . and we have that's the problem. iriviiege— and we have that's the problem. privilege comes— and we have that's the problem. privilege comes in— and we have that's the problem. privilege comes in many- privilege comes in many flavours, doesn't it? so how is this likely to affect this vat charge likely to affect private schools? presumably it's some of them will not be able to maintain their their sort of surpa and demand intersection is going to suffer, right? yeah it's not all top hats and toffs at it's not all top hats and toffs ai privaie— it's not all top hats and toffs at private school.— it's not all top hats and toffs at private school. believe me. inere— at private school. believe me. inere are— at private school. believe me. there are some— at private school. believe me. there are some schools like that ana— there are some schools like that and inev-re— there are some schools like that and inev-re verv— there are some schools like that and they're very successful . and they're very successful. they— and they're very successful. inev viii— and they're very successful. they will survive, course. they will survive, of course. i mean, you're eaton's and your sainr— mean, you're eaton's and your saini raui-e— mean, you're eaton's and your saint paul's and— mean, you're eaton's and your saint paul's and so forth. inev-re— saint paul's and so forth. inev-re-io- saint paul's and so forth. they're to survive. they're going to survive. but inere-e— they're going to survive. but there's - schools - they're going to survive. but there's schools which there's a lot of schools which are-ninete— there's a lot of schools which are-middle of- there's a lot of schools which are-middle of the- there's a lot of schools which are middle of the road. are more middle of the road. sonerinee— are more middle of the road. sometimes they— are more middle of the road. sometimes they serve children vviin— sometimes they serve children viin—inev-re with special needs and they're reaiiv— with special needs and they're reaiiv-nave— with special needs and they're really have budgets. really they have tight budgets. andlyou— really they have tight budgets. andlyou airi— really they have tight budgets. and you add 20% vat to the and if you add 20% vat to the fees.— and if you add 20% vat to the fees. inev— and if you add 20% vat to the fees, they will— and if you add 20% vat to the fees, they will close. and vnai-e— fees, they will close. and vvnar-e going— fees, they will close. and what's going to happen is you're going— what's going to happen is you're going io— what's going to happen is you're going ro-vee— what's going to happen is you're going to yes, you're going going to have yes, you're going to going to have yes, you're going io-eone— going to have yes, you're going to-some schools- going to have yes, you're going to some schools paying vat to have some schools paying vat to have some schools paying vat ro ine— to have some schools paying vat to the government,— to have some schools paying vat to the government, but you're going— to the government, but you're going io— to the government, but you're going ro nave— to the government, but you're going ro nave a— to the government, but you're going to have a mass exodus of eniiiren— going to have a mass exodus of children also— going to have a mass exodus of children also entering state eenooie.— children also entering state eenooie.-vou- children also entering state. schools.-you-on children also entering state. schfone -you-on children also entering state schfone hand, you on children also entering state schfone hand, you ou on children also entering state schfone hand, you lose. on children also entering state schfone hand, you lose. on on children also entering state schfone hand, you lose. on the the one hand, you lose. on the one— the one hand, you lose. on the one nano— the one hand, you lose. on the other hand. so— the one hand, you lose. on the other hand. so it's— the one hand, you lose. on the other hand. so it's really the ponies— other hand. so it's really the poiiiiee oi— other hand. so it's really the politics of envy— other hand. so it's really the politics of envy and it's really aepreeeea— politics of envy and it's really

aepreeeea io— politics of envy and it's really depressed to -that- politics of envy and it's really depressed to that we have depressed to think that we have we depressed to think that we have ve-nere— depressed to think that we have ve-nere sonne— depressed to think that we have we here some great schools. we have here some great schools. they— we have here some great schools. inev enouia— we have here some great schools. inev enouia eiav— we have here some great schools. they should stay open we they should stay open and we enouia— they should stay open and we should respect— they should stay open and we should respect parental choice . should respect parental choice. inai-e— should respect parental choice. that's-should- should respect parental choice. that's-should be- should respect parental choice. that's should be worried that's what we should be worried apour— that's what we should be worried apourline— that's what we should be worried about .the fact _ that's what we should be worried about .the fact that _ that's what we should be worried about the fact that if you about is the fact that if you iivea— about is the fact that if you river in— about is the fact that if you river in a— about is the fact that if you lived in a deprived area of nriiain— lived in a deprived area of britain, you're— lived in a deprived area of britain, you're 27 times more iiveiv— britain, you're 27 times more new io— britain, you're 27 times more likely ro go— britain, you're 27 times more likely ro go io— britain, you're 27 times more likely to go to a— britain, you're 27 times more likely to go to a failing school inan— likely to go to a failing school inan-iive— likely to go to a failing school inan-iivela- likely to go to a failing school than-livela posh- likely to go to a failing school than live a posh area. than if you live in a posh area. inai-e— than if you live in a posh area. inai-e ine— than if you live in a posh area. that's the divide.— than if you live in a posh area. that's the divide. so we should forger— that's the divide. so we should rorgei aioui— that's the divide. so we should forget about this— that's the divide. so we should forget about this business of eioeing— forget about this business of closing - schools. - forget about this business of- closing - schools. .want closing private schools. we want to closing private schools. we want io-eiaie— closing private schools. we want to-state schools- closing private schools. we want to state schools better so to make state schools better so anar— to make state schools better so that children _ to make state schools better so that children will— to make state schools better so that children will not need to go io— that children will not need to go o privaie— that children will not need to go to private schools. and, you know.— go to private schools. and, you vnovvlvou— go to private schools. and, you vnovvlvou go— go to private schools. and, you know,.you go back- go to private schools. and, you know, you go back to the 50s know, if you go back to the 50s ani— know, if you go back to the 50s and—privaie- know, if you go back to the 50s and private schools and 60s, many private schools vvereon- ine- and 60s, many private schools were-on the vine- were withering on the vine ieeauee— were withering on the vine because schools because grammar schools were going— because grammar schools were aoinglgreai— because grammar schools were aoinglgreai foi— because grammar schools were doing great job and private doing a great job and private eenooie— doing a great job and private schools were— doing a great job and private schools were less necessary. now we schools were less necessary. now ve program— schools were less necessary. now we are program schools, but aieo pro— we are program schools, but we're also pro technical eenooie.— we're also pro technical schools. we— we're also pro technical schools. we think we want a reeioraiion— schools. we think we want a restoration of _ schools. we think we want a restoration of lots of grammar eenooie— restoration of lots of grammar eenooie ana— restoration of lots of grammar schools and we— restoration of lots of grammar schools and we want very good goin— schools and we want very goodi gold _technical gold standard quality, technical eenooie— gold standard quality, technical schools alongside perhaps from the schools alongside perhaps from rne age— schools alongside perhaps from rne age or— schools alongside perhaps from rne age or re— schools alongside perhaps from the age of 13 so— schools alongside perhaps from the age of 13 so that children do the age of 13 so that children to nor— the age of 13 so that children to nor see— the age of 13 so that children do not see going— the age of 13 so that children do not see going to a non grarnrnar— do not see going to a non grammar school as a failure. you go-eounrrv— grammar school as a failure. you go-eounrrv-ae- go to a country such as switzerland— go to a country such as switzerland or germany, they nave — switzerland or germany, they have - schools - switzerland or germany, they. have - schools .they have grammar schools and they aieo— have grammar schools and they also-technical— have grammar schools and they also -technical-and also have technical schools and inere-e— also have technical schools and inere-e no— also have technical schools and there's no difference in terms of there's no difference in terms or-preerige— there's no difference in terms of-prestige and- there's no difference in terms of prestige and in fact, you

of the prestige and in fact, you know.— of the prestige and in fact, you non-ro— of the prestige and in fact, you know,-toltechnical| know, if you go to a technical eenooi— know, if you go to a technical eenooi ana— know, if you go to a technical school and come— know, if you go to a technical school and come out as a plumber know, if you go to a technical scianl and come out as a plumber know, if you go to a technical scian electrician, out as a plumber know, if you go to a technical scian electrician, you're a plumber or an electrician, you're propapiv— or an electrician, you're probably you probably going to get a job. you pairi— probably going to get a job. you paid a— probably going to get a job. you paid a ior— probably going to get a job. you pain a ior or— probably going to get a job. you paid a lot of money. whereas if you— paid a lot of money. whereas if you 90— paid a lot of money. whereas if vou go io— paid a lot of money. whereas if vou go o an— paid a lot of money. whereas if you go to an academic school, navie— you go to an academic school, maybe—becausel you go to an academic school,- maybe_because you maybe you won't be because you may— maybe you won't be because you nay—ae- may get a job like me as a nieiorian— may get a job like me as a historian, you— may get a job like me as a historian, you don't get paid nuen. — historian, you don't get paid nuen. -a— historian, you don't get paid much. -a teacher,- historian, you don't get paid much. a teacher, you don't much. so or a teacher, you don't get— much. so or a teacher, you don't gei—rnar. - much. so or a teacher, you don't gei—rnar. so- much. so or a teacher, you don't get—that. so it's. get paid a lot for that. so it's a nonsense. and— get paid a lot for that. so it's a nonsense. and ofsted that we vaiue— a nonsense. and ofsted that we vaiue oniv— a nonsense. and ofsted that we vaiue oniv ine— a nonsense. and ofsted that we value only the academic. the academic—and. academic is important and privaie—preirvl academic is important and- private_pretty good private schools are pretty good at private schools are pretty good ai-aieo— private schools are pretty good ai-aieo ve- private schools are pretty good at-also we want- private schools are pretty good at also we want very at that. but also we want very good— at that. but also we want very good guaiirv— at that. but also we want very good quality technical schools, vnerner— whether they're private or vvneiner— whether they're state. we should focus— focus on quality of schools, not vvneiner— focus on quality of schools, not whether- private - focus on quality of schools, not whether-private or- whether they're private or independent. _ whether they're private or independent. should applaud independent. we should applaud the independent. we should applaud ine—inev-re- independent. we should applaud inela-inev-re- independent. we should applaud the a great they're independent. we should applaud the a great job they're independent. we should applaud the a great job ththee independent. we should applaud the a great job ththe whole, doing a great job on the whole, ani— doing a great job on the whole, and-vnerner- doing a great job on the whole, and-whether you- doing a great job on the whole, and whether you have and can i ask whether you have any— and can i ask whether you have any-nov— and can i ask whether you have anv-novv ine- any sense of how the demographics might change within the demographics might change within ine—veiie — demographics might change within the—well? because- the schools as well? because i know— the schools as well? because i know already private schools attract children from attract a lot of children from overseas. many them, overseas. many of them, of course, board many parts of the world. the english private education sector is still regarded prestigious and regarded as very prestigious and especially the rising especially in the rising economies in east. would are economies in the east. would are they likely to take up the places which local struggling parents in this country are unable to afford? yeah certainly. imean, unable to afford? yeah certainly. i mean, look, i spent

narr— certainly. i mean, look, i spent naii nv— certainly. i mean, look, i spent naii my career— t i mean, look, i spent half my career teaching in the eiaie— half my career teaching in the eiaie eeeori— half my career teaching in the state sector and— half my career teaching in the state sector and comprehensive eenooie— state sector and comprehensive eenooie in— state sector and comprehensive schools in the— state sector and comprehensive schools in the second half in ine— schools in the second half in rne privare— schools in the second half in the private sector. i can guaranree— the private sector. i can guarantee that if the places aren-i— guarantee that if the places aren-i raven— guarantee that if the places aren't taken up— guarantee that if the places aren't taken up by british parenie— aren't taken up by british parents, they'll be taken up by parenie— parents, they'll be taken up by parenie non — parents, they'll be taken up by parents from overseas. you know ,w. as a campaign— parents from overseas. you know , we as a campaign often say, for evanpie— , we as a campaign often say, for example, if— , we as a campaign often say, for example, if you go to singapore.— for example, if you go to singapore, you- for example, if you go to singapore, you go to shanghai. inere— singapore, you go to shanghai. there brilliant— singapore, you go to shanghai. there brilliant education eveiene— there brilliant education systems. but— there brilliant education systems. but if you've got a lot of systems. but if you've got a lot or money— systems. but if you've got a lot or nonev in— systems. but if you've got a lot of money in singapore and in snangnai.— of money in singapore and in shanghai,-your- of money in singapore and in shanghai, your kids to shanghai, you send your kids to ingiana— shanghai, you send your kids to england—private- england to the best private eenooie.— england to the best private schools. - should - england to the best private- schools. -should.really schools. so we should be really proud— schools. so we should be really proud-eenooie- schools. so we should be really proud - schools and - proud of those schools and aieoiuieiv— proud of those schools and absolutely-the- proud of those schools and absolutely the moment, absolutely, at the moment, privare— absolutely, at the moment, privare-nave- absolutely, at the moment, private-have to- absolutely, at the moment, private have to turn private schools have to turn down— private schools have to turn down overseas— private schools have to turn down overseas applicants because inev-ve— down overseas applicants because inev-ve goi— down overseas applicants because inev-ve goi io— down overseas applicants because they've got to maintain some eon— they've got to maintain some sort-balance.— they've got to maintain some. sort.balance._turn sort of balance. but if you turn away— sort of balance. but if you turn away ingiani— sort of balance. but if you turn away ingiani .— sort of balance. but if you turn away england , we're going to away england, we're going to pure— away england, we're going to build-economies- away england, we're going to build economies of our build the economies of our rivaie— build the economies of our rivaie. —navei build the economies of our. rivals._have the rivals. we're going to have the vine— kids coming here and they're going—veri- - kids coming here and they're going—well. it's. going to do very well. it's reaiiv— going to do very well. it's really masochistic. we insist . really masochistic. we insist. iiavne— really masochistic. we insist. iiavne vnar— really masochistic. we insist. iiavne vnar ve— really masochistic. we insist. maybe what we should- really masochistic. we insist. maybe what we should do is insist if your child is educated insist if your child is educated in private school, in a british private school, they stay here and work they have to stay here and work for afterwards in for here ten years afterwards in order feed their intelligence order to feed their intelligence and their education back into the into the the british the into the soil of the british ecology. what do you think? well, look, we don't believe too in well, look, we don't believe too ne—o— well, look, we don't believe tool in_so we probably in much statism, so we probably vvouiin-r— wouldn't go for that. but i'm

evnparneiie— wouldn't go for that. but i'm sympathetic idea we sympathetic with the idea we vani— sympathetic with the idea we vanr peopie — sympathetic with the idea we want people who are educated nere— want people who are educated nere io— want people who are educated nere ro reen— want people who are educated here to feed back— want people who are educated here to feed back into the economy. - look - here to feed back into the economy. .look ,- here to feed back into the economy. look , we're not economy. but look, we're not going— economy. but look, we're not goinglbe— economy. but look, we're not goinglpe pig— economy. but look, we're not going be big brother. thank going to be big brother. thank you going to be big brother. thank vou—chris- going to be big brother. thank you—chris is- you very much. chris is marvellous chatting you and marvellous chatting to you and i see east sussex, man. so see you in east sussex, man. so hopefully you for hopefully we'll catch you for a pint at some point when i'm back down in hove soon. take down in hove very soon. take care. andrew. i don't care. thank you, andrew. i don't know. children know. do you have children yourself? okay. yourself? no not yet, no. okay. i mean, we have a couple and we've through we've put them through private education, something education, and it's something i almost talking almost feel embarrassed talking about, you know, but it's absolutely ruinously expensive . absolutely ruinously expensive. i am not entirely convinced it was the best use of the money, but there it is. it's done. but you you're caught you do feel that you're caught now in a double bind because on the one hand, it's already horrendously the one hand, it's already horrerto usly the one hand, it's already horrerto get more expensive. going to get more expensive. and at time, your children at the same time, your children are, i think , persecuted to are, then i think, persecuted to some extent the same grades when they come out of sixth form at a level will not be given the same offers as if they were to have those grades coming out of state school. adaptation is being school. the adaptation is being made higher education. so made by the higher education. so it real it feels like there's a real squeeze on. it's a really squeeze going on. it's a really announ— squeeze going on. it's a really difficult one,— squeeze going on. it's a really difficult one, isn't— squeeze going on. it's a really difficult one, isn't it?- squeeze going on. it's a really difficult one, isn't it? i- : git» g rzzr" it's a really difficult one, isn't it? i went to difficult one, isn't it? i went o a— difficult one, isn't it? i went o a privaie— difficult one, isn't it? i went

to a private school myself and i aieo— to a private school myself and i also embarrassment also have that embarrassment eorneiirnee— also have that embarrassment sometimes saying as if sometimes of saying it as if rive— sometimes of saying it as ifj like—handed sometimes of saying it as if. like—handed to like every thing was handed to vou.— like every thing was handed to vou—in- like every thing was handed to vou—in nv- you. and in reality, in my epenene— you. and in reality, in my experience, anyway, we weren't verv— experience, anyway, we weren't very—friends- experience, anyway, we weren't very—friends oi- very different to friends of ine— very different to friends of. mine—grammar mine who went to grammar schools and mine who went to grammar schools ani-eenooie. — mine who went to grammar schools and-schools. we— mine who went to grammar schools and-schools. we just- mine who went to grammar schools and schools. we just and and state schools. we just and iiienaei— and state schools. we just and michael-went- and state schools. we just and michael-went to- and state schools. we just and michael went to my michael mcintyre went to my eenooi.— michael mcintyre went to my eenooi. igne— michael mcintyre went to my school, right. _ michael mcintyre went to my school, right. so— michael mcintyre went to my school, right. r:r:::r ”if“ r: school, right. so he do remind me of well, not as posh as me of him. well, not as posh as him, but he's he's like he's very quite posh and all that, but he's very relatable. that's the his comedy, the whole point of his comedy, ion-i— the whole point of his comedy, ien-i—ro- the whole point of his comedy, ien-i—io inel isn't it? he can relate to the averaeg— isn't it? he can relate to the average person _ isn't it? he can relate to the average person we like. v/rzzr. average person we like. you know.— average person we like. you know. one— average person we like. you know. are one— average person we like. you know, the one thing that everyone private everyone says about private education, people who everyone says about private educatom, people who everyone says about private educrto it people who everyone says about private educrto it who people who everyone says about private educrto it who are tople who everyone says about private educrto it who are convinced went to it and who are convinced because i was state because i didn't i was state educated. but the one thing people talk about is the confidence with not confidence you come out with not not in an not better educated in an academic but you have academic sense, but you have a way bearing. and that seems way of bearing. and that seems to amount, you know, way of bearing. and that seems to drama. amount, you know, way of bearing. and that seems to drama. youtmount, you know, way of bearing. and that seems to drama. you know,:, you know, way of bearing. and that seems to drama. you know,:, you knthey of drama. you know, they do they do little more public do a little bit more public speaking. they tend to spend their weekends either on their weekends either putting on musicals play musicals or of course, they play a i think those a bit more sport. i think those two between you two things between them, you know, that know, it actually isn't that complicated. rugby complicated. the years of rugby and all those kinds of things, team and those things, team sports and those things, you also just you probably team sports and those things, y(bililso just you probably team sports and those things, ytbit special. ou probably team sports and those things, ytbit special. i, probably team sports and those things, ytbit special. i, i)robably team sports and those things, ytbit special. i, i don'tily team sports and those things, ytbit special. i, i don't know. a bit special. i, i don't know. nur— a bit special. i, i don't know. our—vnar- a bit special. i, i don't know. our—vnai i- a bit special. i, i don't know. but—what i was. but what i was, what i was saying— but what i was, what i was eaving apoui— but what i was, what i was saying about michael mcintyre is

the saying about michael mcintyre is rne poinr— saying about michael mcintyre is rne poinr-rnen- saying about michael mcintyre is the point-then, it- the point was back then, it nae-ni— the point was back then, it vvae-ni a— the point was back then, it wasn't a difference. and the point was back then, it wasrif a difference. and the point was back then, it wasrif you're difference. and the point was back then, it wasrif you're going'ence. and the point was back then, it wasrif you're going to ce. and the point was back then, it wasrif you're going to charge now if you're going to charge ug— now if you're going to charge that-schools,- that much for schools, the peopie—ineeel that much for schools, the- people -these private people who go to these private eenooie— people who go to these private eenooie — people who go to these private schools are not— people who go to these private schools are not going to be able to schools are not going to be able io—inen- schools are not going to be ablej io—inen vouve to be relatable. and then you've got to be relatable. and then you've goi—ii— to be relatable. and then you've goi—ii gooe- to be relatable. and then you've goi—ii gooa io- got to wonder, is it good to seni— got to wonder, is it good to send nv— got to wonder, is it good to send my vide— got to wonder, is it good to send my kids there if they're so airierenr— send my kids there if they're so different .the _ send my kids there if they're so different-the rest- send my kids there if they're so different the rest of different from the rest of eoeierve — different from the rest of society? -is- different from the rest of society? -is a- different from the rest of- society? -is a possible society? there is a possible way around think would around it, which i think would smooth the thing around it, which i think would smodon't the thing around it, which i think would smodon't want the thing around it, which i think would smodon't want to the thing around it, which i think would smodon't want to have thing around it, which i think would smodon't want to have in thing you don't want to have in society is significant step changes between haves and changes between the haves and the want a smooth the have nots. you want a smooth landscape. thing would landscape. one thing that would smooth would smooth the landscape out would be voucher system be to have a voucher system whereby every of course, whereby every child, of course, roughly six grand a year to educate a child in the state sector very roughly, but roughly, and about four and a half school. in half at primary school. but in the schools, if the comprehensive schools, if you be a voucher you were to be given a voucher for six grand for every child you have that's hitting state school then can school age, and then you can choose local choose to spend it at your local state and you pay nothing state school and you pay nothing more or you pay towards more or you pay it towards your fees. to go fees. if you wanted them to go to a slightly better school, then would have, you know, then you would have, you know, a range schools a range of range of schools with a range of facilities. the range of schools with a range of faciliof s. the range of schools with a range of faciliof facilities the range of schools with a range of faciliof facilities that the range of schools with a range of faciliof facilities that 18 the range of schools with a range of faciliof facilities that 18 grand kind of facilities that 18 grand a pay kind of facilities that 18 grand a pay for. if you a year might pay for. if you really you can go for the really flush, you can go for the 40 grand a year school. but if you just top it up you only want to just top it up a little bit and just say, i

want them to have like nice want them to have like a nice education with some playing want them to have like a nice education “01 some playing want them to have like a nice education “01 s0ischool, ing want them to have like a nice education “01 s0ischool, maybe fields next to the school, maybe that 12 a year. fields next to the school, maybe thatmight 12 a year. fields next to the school, maybe thatmight be 12 a year. fields next to the school, maybe thatmight be able a year. fields next to the school, maybe thatmight be able to a year. fields next to the school, maybe thatmight be able to findfear. fields next to the school, maybe thatmight be able to find the you might be able to find the extra do you want i mean, that would just smooth out would just smooth things out a bit. enlightened bit. well, enlightened education, chances education, what are the chances finally, after the break, we'll be chatting to drew ratter, who is of brownite is treasurer of brownite lodge trust islands, trust in the shetland islands, where is on the market where a castle is on the market for grand. that's five for just 30 grand. that's five years of state school. there is a don't go away. see you a catch. don't go away. see you in minute . on a catch. don't go away. see you in minute. on mark dolan in a minute. on mark dolan ionigni.— in a minute. on mark dolan ionigni. in— in a minute. on mark dolan ionignr. in my— in a minute. on mark dolan tonight. in my big- " on mark dolan tonight. in my big opinion, the governnenr— tonight. in my big opinion, the government silenced covid eriiiee— government silenced covid critics during— government silenced covid critics during the pandemic. is anonev— critics during the pandemic. is anyone surprised— critics during the pandemic. is anyone surprised ? plus, as the anyone surprised? plus, as the eveeiienr— anyone surprised? plus, as the eveeiieni un— anyone surprised? plus, as the excellent uk australia trade ieai— excellent uk australia trade ieai kicke— excellent uk australia trade deal kicks in— excellent uk australia trade deal kicks in brexit, britain is proving— deal kicks in brexit, britain is proving ine— deal kicks in brexit, britain is proving the doubters wrong. my naiv— proving the doubters wrong. my main neeie— proving the doubters wrong. my mark meets guest— proving the doubters wrong. my mark meets guest is the extraordinarily brave war hero craig— extraordinarily brave war hero craig narrieon— extraordinarily brave war hero craig harrison, famous for the iongeer— craig harrison, famous for the iongeer sniper— craig harrison, famous for the longest sniper shot in the none.— longest sniper shot in the world. 2.5km._ longest sniper shot in the world. 2.5km. talk about hitting the world. 2.5km. talk about hitting rne iargeie— world. 2.5km. talk about hitting rne iargeie .— world. 2.5km. talk about hitting the targets , but_ world. 2.5km. talk about hitting the targets , but in my take at the targets, but in my take at ten:— the targets, but in my take at ien ine— the targets, but in my take at ien rne narrv— the targets, but in my take at ten, the harry and meghan brand is ten, the harry and meghan brand ie in— ten, the harry and meghan brand ie in free— ten, the harry and meghan brand ie in free rari— ten, the harry and meghan brand is in free fall .— ten, the harry and meghan brand is in free fall. if— ten, the harry and meghan brand is in free fall. if you bought earene— is in free fall. if you bought earene in— is in free fall. if you bought shares in this— is in free fall. if you bought shares in this self—absorbed

duo:— shares in this self—absorbed iuo. i— shares in this self—absorbed iuo. i nouri— shares in this self—absorbed duo, i would advise you to sell eeri— duo, i would advise you to sell eeii .— duo, i would advise you to sell eeii . eeri— duo, i would advise you to sell sell, sell plus— duo, i would advise you to sell sell, sell plus us— duo, i would advise you to sell sell, sell plus us news duo, i would advise you to sell sell , sell plus us news with sell, sell plus us news with american— sell, sell plus us news with american showbiz queen kinsey senoiieia.— american showbiz queen kinsey senorieia. my— american showbiz queen kinsey schofield. my top— american showbiz queen kinsey schofield. my top pundits , schofield. my top pundits, tomorrow's papers and harry neavnapp— tomorrow's papers and harry neavnapp iive— tomorrow's papers and harry redknapp live on the show iieeueeing— redknapp live on the show discussing the— redknapp live on the show discussing the fa cup final and why— discussing the fa cup final and why guer— discussing the fa cup final and why iuer prop— discussing the fa cup final and why iuer erop ei— discussing the fa cup final and why just stop oil are targeting proreeeionai— why just stop oil are targeting professional sport. we're live from— professional sport. we're live from nine— professional sport. we're live from nine till— professional sport. we're live from nine till 11— professional sport. we're live from nine till 11 on .

gb news and i gb news. and welcome i on news- and welcome back i on neve— and welcome back to neil oliver iive— and welcome back to neil oliver iive viin— and welcome back to neil oliver iive vviin ne— and welcome back to neil oliver live with me simon evans, the onion— live with me simon evans, the onion iove— live with me simon evans, the british love a— live with me simon evans, the british love a ruin— live with me simon evans, the british love a ruin . tidy ” british love a ruin. many of our favourite buildings and some would say favourite tv presenters are craggy, remains of former glories, whether the abbeys left open to the skies like broken molars in the aftermath of thomas cromwell's sucker punch or the castles that once projected power into the darkest corners of the kingdom and now lie quiet at sunset like

old warriors dozing by the fire. they capture something of the deep time that our nation embodies, echoes of our uniquely glorious , colourful and eventful glorious, colourful and eventful island story. and there is something to very pleasing in watching the gradual process of nature reclaiming quarried stone winding her leaf and branch around the once proud turrets and slowly returning them to her bosom, even on an old tractor on a country ramble is often picturesque, flaking paint iron dissolving into rust and old rubber become a nest for beetles, birds or mice , a beetles, birds or mice, a reassuring reminder that all things must pass, especially when certain things in life seem to be outstaying their welcome. so yes, i love a ruin. still, i'm not sure i'd want to live in one that leads me on to my next story. a castle in shetland is on the market for just £30,000.

andrew what do you think? would you fancy living in a castle? well, it's not for me, is it? you do get these people. we're my fiance.— you do get these people. we're my fiance. ana— you do get these people. we're my fiance, and i— you do get these people. we're my fiance, and i are getting married.— my fiance, and i are getting married, and— my fiance, and i are getting married, and we've looking married, and we've been looking aouni— married, and we've been looking around-easies— married, and we've been looking around-eaeiiee .- married, and we've been looking around castles , and you around a few castles, and you get— around a few castles, and you gei—eeeenirie- around a few castles, and you. get—eccentric people around a few castles, and you get live eccentric people around a few castles, and you get live in eccentric people around a few castles, and you get live in them,:centric people around a few castles, and you get live in them, you ric people around a few castles, and you get live in them, you ric pec and who live in them, you know, and inev— who live in them, you know, and inev guer— who live in them, you know, and inev iuer rive— who live in them, you know, and they just live there— who live in them, you know, and they just live there for, like, 30 they just live there for, like, so veare. — they just live there for, like, no veare. ani— they just live there for, like, 30 years. and they're always they just live there for, like, 30 ye sort and they're always they just live there for, like, 30 ye sort and the spoken ays they just live there for, like, 30 ye sort and the spoken ,ys they just live there for, like, 30 ye sort and the spoken , posh, quite sort of well spoken, posh, runny— quite sort of well spoken, posh, funny eccentrics,— quite sort of well spoken, posh, funny eccentrics, you know, inere— funny eccentrics, you know, inere-ranoue- funny eccentrics, you know, there famous family i there was a famous family i can-i— there was a famous family i ean-i—iianeei can't remember the flames or eoneining— can't remember the flames or something like— can't remember the flames or something like that. "rzy c iii: something like that. they lived in a— something like that. they lived in a caste— something like that. they lived in a castle in devon. they were famous because they swore extraordinary freely. even the children were about eight children there were about eight children there were about eight children riding around on tractors and so tractors in the grounds and so on. became national heroes on. they became national heroes for i think they had for a while. i think they had their yeah, they their own series. but yeah, they couldn't afford to heat, you know, quarters know, three quarters of the place. all turning to place. it was all turning to mould. then there are mould. then again, there are other people. there was a chap called roger deacon who was a nature died quite nature writer. he died quite young, but was he was young, sadly, but he was he was the inspiration and the of the inspiration and the sort of great hero of robert macfarlane, who's become the nature who's become the doyen of nature writers he wrote writers now. and he he wrote a book called waterlog, which was about which started the whole wild swimming craze in uk. wild swimming craze in the uk. he real eccentric. he

he was a real eccentric. he renovated an old farmhouse near diss in suffolk, and he lived in the inglenook fireplace while he was doing it up. i mean, it was a complete ruin. and he even then only did it up to the extent that it became basically windproof and weatherproof. but he clear out the bats or he didn't clear out the bats or the owls or the mice or any of it, you know. when had it, you know. and when he had it, you know. and when he had it, building it, you know, building regulations investigate it, you know, building regthey)ns investigate it, you know, building regthey said, investigate it, you know, building regthey said, you've investigate it, you know, building regthey said, you've got stigate it, you know, building regthey said, you've got aigate it. they said, you've got a family owls living in the family of owls living in the attic. it was like, yes, isn't it marvellous? you know, have some eccentrics it marvellous? you know, have some live eccentrics it marvellous? you know, have some live that eccentrics it marvellous? you know, have some live that .:centrics it marvellous? you know, have some live that . ientrics who can live like that. i suppose would probably suppose my wife would probably have something to say about it. i know. the island of i don't know. the island of fetlar, incidentally, where this castle is, is of particular interest to ornithologists. it seems this is up in shetland. it's home to a wide variety of bird life. inaya including one of britain's rarest breeding birds, the red necked phalarope as well as whimbrels red throated divers, golden plovers, eider ducks , arctic skuas and eider ducks, arctic skuas and arctic terns, amongst many others . i'll be honest, i feel

others. i'll be honest, i feel sorry that neil himself is not here to wax lyrical on all those names . that's 30 grand. they names. that's 30 grand. they want for bruff lodge. i mean, thatis want for bruff lodge. i mean, that is the price of a of a flat. but they reckon it will cost about £12 million to do it up and make it what the what the owners imagine it could be. i mean and who is then going to go and spend i don't know how many residents you'd need to keep ticking you ticking over to. yeah. do you rernernerp in— ticking over to. yeah. do you remember in italy— t.

couldn't you? you get a few bell tents, you know, then you tents, you know, and then you get a couple of bands get you get a couple of bands playing and obviously , playing there. and obviously, you're to be troubled you're not going to be troubled by it has by police as well. so it has some of appeal of a yacht. some of the appeal of a yacht. you what mean? where you you know what i mean? where you can you know, what did frankie boyle you i love boyle said? you know, i love this said that this routine. he said that however your yacht is, however expensive your yacht is, it's going to be much more it's never going to be much more comfortable a comfortable than being in a premier inn during mild premier inn during a mild earthquake . but what it is, is earthquake. but what it is, is it's mobile crime scene. yeah. it's a mobile crime scene. yeah. you can anything you want on you can do anything you want on on and get away with it. on a yacht and get away with it. well, this, this well, i think this, this, this lodge probably i lodge is probably similar, i think. well, i think it's a good idea.— think. well, i think it's a good idea. vouve— think. well, i think it's a good idea. you've got— well, i think it's a good idea. you've got quite a few ideas.— idea. you've got quite a few iieae-inie. - ideas. i like all this. the education— ideas. i like all this. the education and- ideas. i like all this. the education and this. people can oran— education and this. people can eian—eaeiiee- education and this. people can start—castles. . start glamping in castles. vean— start glamping in castles. vean-iove- start glamping in castles. yeah,-love to. - start glamping in castles. yeah,-love to. i. start glamping in castles. i yeah,-love to. i would yeah, i would love to. i would really like to retire up. i do have friends who i stay with when edinburgh when i do the edinburgh festival, property festival, who also have property on of shetland. and on on the isle of shetland. and it's main shetland now it's main economy, shetland now is, of course, as you can imagine, it is, a brand imagine, what it is, a brand name for horses, right? name for mini horses, right? yeah, yeah. shetland horses are bred of shetland and bred on the isle of shetland and it's champagne and it's a bit like champagne and stilton. they're only allowed to call shetland if call them shetland horses if they come from shetland. and

then put them in crates and then they put them in crates and they wealthy they ship them out to wealthy families america who to families in america who want to give daughters 6 or give their little daughters 6 or 7 age. they them 7 years of age. they give them a little mini pony. they little mini shetland pony. they absolutely it. thelwell absolutely love it. thelwell cartoons and then the shetland pony experience is the lovely, mild climate of indiana or whatever it is . and they they whatever it is. and they they become horribly ill and they get diabetic and metabolic disorders and they keel over and die. sounded like you were quite happy. horrific, because the shetland ponies are just used to living hideous conditions living in the hideous conditions of scotland . very sad. of northern scotland. very sad. that's have time for. that's all we have time for. you've watching oliver you've been watching neil oliver live simon evans, live with me. simon evans, thanks my studio and thanks to my studio guest and podcaster andrew thank you podcaster andrew gold. thank you very night. good very much. good night. good evening. i'm greg .t c: g good evening. i'm greg dewhurst and vveione— evening. i'm greg dewhurst and veiorne io— evening. i'm greg dewhurst and welcome to your— evening. i'm greg dewhurst and welcome to your latest gb news vveainer— welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. _ welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. it— welcome to your latest gb news weather forecast. it does turn guiie— weather forecast. it does turn guiie eniiiv— weather forecast. it does turn quite chilly tonight, but with nign— quite chilly tonight, but with nign pressure— quite chilly tonight, but with high pressure charge, we'll high pressure in charge, we'll pienrv— high pressure in charge, we'll pieniv oi— high pressure in charge, we'll see plenty of sunshine through suniav— see plenty of sunshine through sunday ani— see plenty of sunshine through sunday and temperatures eiiniing— sunday and temperatures climbing, particularly in the veer. — climbing, particularly in the veer. nign— climbing, particularly in the west. high pressure centre just to west. high pressure centre just ro ine— west. high pressure centre just ro rne nonn— west. high pressure centre just to the north of— west. high pressure centre just to the north of us— west. high pressure centre just to the north of us means the vines— to the north of us means the winds eriii— to the north of us means the winds still coming in from the nonneaer. — winds still coming in from the nonneaer. so— winds still coming in from the northeast. so eastern coast, a

iiiiie— northeast. so eastern coast, a iiirie iii— northeast. so eastern coast, a little bit chilly,— northeast. so eastern coast, a little bit chilly, but further veer.— little bit chilly, but further west, temperatures remaining above— west, temperatures remaining aiove averaeg— west, temperatures remaining above average for the time of year-— above average for the time of year so— above average for the time of year. so far— above average for the time of year. so far .— above average for the time of year. so far , an— above average for the time of year. so far , an end to the day. year. so far, an end to the day. vie— year. so far, an end to the day. we viii— year. so far, an end to the day. we viii see— year. so far, an end to the day. we will see some— year. so far, an end to the day. we will see some low cloud across northeast— we will see some low cloud across northeast scotland and aieo— across northeast scotland and aieo-ingiani- across northeast scotland and also england feeding also eastern england feeding eioviv— also eastern england feeding eioviv paci— also eastern england feeding slowly back inland, making its way— slowly back inland, making its way iovarie— slowly back inland, making its way towards the _ slowly back inland, making its way towards the midlands during the way towards the midlands during ine-noure.— way towards the midlands during the-hours. but— way towards the midlands during the-hours. but-will. the early hours. but there will be the early hours. but there will pe-irv— the early hours. but there will be-dry weather- the early hours. but there will be dry weather around be lots of dry weather around eiear— be lots of dry weather around eiear eiiee— be lots of dry weather around clear skies in— be lots of dry weather around clear skies in the— be lots of dry weather around clear skies in the west and we eouii— clear skies in the west and we eouii eee— clear skies in the west and we eouii a— clear skies in the west and we could see a few— clear skies in the west and we could see a few shallow mist and fog parenee— could see a few shallow mist and fog parenee ani— could see a few shallow mist and fog patches and temperatures dipping— fog patches and temperatures iipping inro— fog patches and temperatures dipping into figures. so dipping into single figures. so yes,— dipping into single figures. so yesv a— dipping into single figures. so yesv a eniiiv— dipping into single figures. so yes, a chilly start— dipping into single figures. so yes, a chilly start to sunday morning.— yes, a chilly start to sunday morning. pui— yes, a chilly start to sunday morning, but for— yes, a chilly start to sunday morning, but for many a sunny eran. — morning, but for many a sunny eran. vie— morning, but for many a sunny eran. vie io— morning, but for many a sunny start. we do have— morning, but for many a sunny start. we do have low cloud, eenrrai— start. we do have low cloud, eenirai ani— start. we do have low cloud, central and eastern parts. this eioviv— central and eastern parts. this eioviv-iaei— central and eastern parts. this slowly back towards the slowly burns back towards the eoaen — slowly burns back towards the eoaen linini— slowly burns back towards the coast. think eastern parts of coast. i think eastern parts of scoring— coast. i think eastern parts of scotland, the— coast. i think eastern parts of scotland, the towards the east eoaei— scotland, the towards the east eoaei or— scotland, the towards the east coast of england— scotland, the towards the east coast of england could see some iou—ani- coast of england could see some ion—ana viin- low cloud at times. and with ug— low cloud at times. and with that northeasterly breeze, it viii— that northeasterly breeze, it viii ie— that northeasterly breeze, it will be -chilly- that northeasterly breeze, it will be -chilly .- will be quite chilly. temperatures struggling grimsby inere— temperatures struggling grimsby inere .— temperatures struggling grimsby inere . ie— temperatures struggling grimsby there , 13 degrees. _ temperatures struggling grimsby there , 13 degrees. but come there, 13 degrees. but come runner— there, 13 degrees. but come pun..-— there, 13 degrees. but come further , temperatures further west, temperatures rising— further west, temperatures rieing inro— further west, temperatures rising into the— further west, temperatures rising into the low 20s locally, 25 degrees— rising into the low 20s locally, 25 degrees ie— rising into the low 20s locally, 25 degrees is possible , say for 25 degrees is possible, say for pane— 25 degrees is possible, say for pane of— 25 degrees is possible, say for pane of veer— 25 degrees is possible, say for parts of west wales into the evening— parts of west wales into the evening iine— parts of west wales into the evening time .— parts of west wales into the evening time . plenty of dry evening time. plenty of dry veainer— evening time. plenty of dry veainer io— evening time. plenty of dry weather to come. maybe an ieoiaiei— weather to come. maybe an isolated shower— weather to come. maybe an isolated shower across scotland, but isolated shower across scotland, iui nosi— isolated shower across scotland,

but most places— isolated shower across scotland, but most places are dry. and inen— but most places are dry. and then overnight— but most places are dry. and then overnight we see the low eioui— then overnight we see the low eioui puening— then overnight we see the low cloud pushing back in from the nonn— cloud pushing back in from the worn g..— cloud pushing back in from the north sea, thicker— cloud pushing back in from the north sea, thicker and lower. ani— north sea, thicker and lower. ana inie— north sea, thicker and lower. and this could— north sea, thicker and lower. and this could just produce a revv— and this could just produce a few spore— and this could just produce a few epoie or— and this could just produce a few spots of drizzle though. vveeiern— few spots of drizzle though. western areas— few spots of drizzle though. western areas staying dry and eiear— western areas staying dry and clear once more— western areas staying dry and clear once more and temperatures again— clear once more and temperatures again inro— clear once more and temperatures again inio eingie— clear once more and temperatures again into single figures. so a bit again into single figures. so a iii of— again into single figures. so a iii of a— again into single figures. so a bit of a westie_ again into single figures. so a bit of a westie split to start iioniav— bit of a westie split to start monday morning. sunny skies iovvarie— monday morning. sunny skies towards northern ireland, scoring— towards northern ireland, scotland, west wales , the west scotland, west wales, the west eounirv. — scotland, west wales, the west country. elsewhere quite cloudy . nui— country. elsewhere quite cloudy . nui again— country. elsewhere quite cloudy . but again, the— country. elsewhere quite cloudy . but again, the cloud through the . but again, the cloud through rne eav— . but again, the cloud through the day should— . but again, the cloud through the day should lift and break ani— the day should lift and break and eioviv— the day should lift and break and slowly retreat towards the eoaen — and slowly retreat towards the eoaen ii— and slowly retreat towards the coast. it might— and slowly retreat towards the coast. it might take its time ani— coast. it might take its time and temperatures rising to the nia— and temperatures rising to the mid zeo— and temperatures rising to the mid zen in— and temperatures rising to the mid 20s in the— and temperatures rising to the mid 20s in the west and tuesday ani— mid 20s in the west and tuesday and wednesday— mid 20s in the west and tuesday and wednesday staying very einiiar— and wednesday staying very einiiar .— and wednesday staying very similar. further— and wednesday staying very similar. further sunshine and nigner— similar. further sunshine and higher temperatures . on mark higher temperatures. on mark noian— higher temperatures. on mark i>oian ionignr— higher temperatures. on mark dolan tonight. _ higher temperatures. on mark dolan tonight. " higher temperatures. on mark dolan tonight. .. jig dolan tonight. in my big opinion, the government silenced covid critics during the pandemic . is anyone surprised ? pandemic. is anyone surprised? plus, as the excellent uk australia trade deal kicks in brexit, britain is proving the doubters wrong. my mark meets guest is the extraordinarily brave war hero, craig harrison,

famed for the longest sniper shot in the world, 2.5km. talk about hitting the targets in my take at ten. the harry and meghan brand is in free fall. if you bought shares in this self—absorbed duo, i would advise you to sell, sell, sell plus us news with american showbiz queen kinsey schofield. my showbiz queen kinsey schofield. my top pundits. tomorrow's papers and harry redknapp live on the show discussing the fa cup final and why just stop oil are targeting professional sports . we're live from 9 to 11 sports. we're live from 9 to 11 on .

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