to do with the something to do with the weather? all of that in just a moment. but first, let's get the news with polly middlehurst . news with polly middlehurst. nigel, thank you. good evening . nigel, thank you. good evening. n...— nigel, thank you. good evening. the top— nigel, thank you. good evening. the top story— nigel, thank you. good evening. the top story tonight, as you've been— the top story tonight, as you've been he....g,_ the top story tonight, as you've been hearing, the— the top story tonight, as you've been hearing, the prime minister saying— been hearing, the prime minister saying he— been hearing, the prime minister eeynng nne plen— been hearing, the prime minister eeynng nne plan ne— been hearing, the prime minister saying his plan to tackle the annal— saying his plan to tackle the arrival-illegal— saying his plan to tackle the arrival illegal migrants to arrival of illegal migrants to the arrival of illegal migrants to nne un— arrival of illegal migrants to nne uk in— arrival of illegal migrants to the uk in small— arrival of illegal migrants to the uk in small boats and the asylum— the uk in small boats and the asylum backlog— the uk in small boats and the asylum backlog is, in his words, starting— asylum backlog is, in his words, enening ne— asylum backlog is, in his words, starting to work— asylum backlog is, in his words, starting to work ._ asylum backlog is, in his words, starting to work. but he admits enene— starting to work. but he admits enene n— starting to work. but he admits there is still— starting to work. but he admits there is still a— starting to work. but he admits there is still a long way to go during— there is still a long way to go during a— there is still a long way to go during a speech— there is still a long way to go during a speech he gave in kent teeny,— during a speech he gave in kent teeny, ene— during a speech he gave in kent today, the prime— during a speech he gave in kent today, the prime minister said ennu— today, the prime minister said eneu been— today, the prime minister said small boat crossings were down 20. mm — small boat crossings were down 20. rishi sunak_ small boat crossings were down 20. rishi sunak also announced a funnen— 20. rishi sunak also announced a funnen ene— 20. rishi sunak also announced a further two barge— 20. rishi sunak also announced a further two barge is— 20. rishi sunak also announced a further two barge is to accommodate a further 1000 migrants,— accommodate a further 1000 nngnnne, nun— accommodate a further 1000 migrants, but would not comment on nnene— migrants, but would not comment on nnene ene— migrants, but would not comment on where the barges would be located. — on where the barges would be located. nne— on where the barges would be located. the prime minister says the government— located. the prime minister says the government is— located. the prime minister says the government is using every teet— the government is using every not an— the government is using every not an ne— the government is using every tool at its disposal to tackle illegal— tool at its disposal to tackle illegal migration . well, the illegal migration. well, the labour— illegal migration. well, the labour leader,— illegal migration. well, the labour leader, sir keir starmer, nee— labour leader, sir keir starmer, has welcomed— labour leader, sir keir starmer, has welcomed the— labour leader, sir keir starmer, has welcomed the news but says the government— has welcomed the news but says the government needs to secure

more return agreements with one— more return agreements with other countries— more return agreements with other countries . other countries. i think everybody wants to make sure that we stop the boats. we don't want people making that dangerous journey all we've really had from the government though, is the announcement of a policy that doesn't work. then the re announcement of the same policy essentially and it often feels, i think, like groundhog day. meanwhile that's day. and meanwhile that's costing a fortune for the taxpayer and there's this growing sense of frustration. i mean, i'm at hinkley point c here today. fantastic project. it's behind schedule. and there's a frustration here. keir starmer now, the metropolitan police says conservative— metropolitan police says conservative mp bob stewart has been— conservative mp bob stewart has been eneneee— conservative mp bob stewart has been charged with— conservative mp bob stewart has been charged with two public ener— been charged with two public order offences— been charged with two public order offences ,_ been charged with two public order offences , is alleged to order offences, is alleged to neve— order offences, is alleged to have happened— order offences, is alleged to have happened in december last year.— have happened in december last year. seen— have happened in december last year. scott yard _ have happened in december last year. scott yard says the 73 year— year. scott yard says the 73 year one — year. scott yard says the 73 yen em nee— year. scott yard says the 73 year old has been charged with a nanny— year old has been charged with a racially aggravated— year old has been charged with a racially aggravated offence ener— racially aggravated offence after an— racially aggravated offence after an incident in central lennon.— after an incident in central london. nne— after an incident in central london. the force has said he's going— london. the force has said he's going ne— london. the force has said he's going to appear— london. the force has said he's gonna ne appear an— london. the force has said he's going to appear at westminster naennanee— going to appear at westminster magistrates court— going to appear at westminster magistrates court in july. the foreign— magistrates court in july. the foreign secretary has held talks

nann— foreign secretary has held talks with president— foreign secretary has held talks with president zelenskyy in ukraine-e— with president zelenskyy in ukraine's capital, kyiv. ukraine-e— ukraine's capital, kyiv. ukraine's president has thanked the ukraine's president has thanked nne un— ukraine's president has thanked nne un nan— ukraine's president has thanked nne uk for ne— ukraine's president has thanked the uk for its continued support anae— the uk for its continued support and ne— the uk for its continued support amid the country's— amid the country's counter—offensive to the amid the country's— counter—offensive to the russian .— counter—offensive to the russian . ae— counter—offensive to the russian invasion . as the— counter—offensive to the russian invasion . as the pair discussed invasion. as the pair discussed ukraine-e— invasion. as the pair discussed ukraine's possible membership to nano— ukraine's possible membership to we annea— ukraine's possible membership to nato after rishi _ ukraine's possible membership to nato after rishi sunak supported the nato after rishi sunak supported nne cannery— nato after rishi sunak supported the country joining the organisation- the country joining the organisation last week . and organisation last week. and neuy— organisation last week. and holly willoughby has returned to the holly willoughby has returned to nne aaynne— holly willoughby has returned to nne aaynne w— holly willoughby has returned to the daytime tv show this morning for the daytime tv show this morning nen ene— the daytime tv show this morning for nne nann— the daytime tv show this morning for the first time— the daytime tv show this morning for the first time following co—presenter_ for the first time following co—presenter phillip schofield's exit co—presenter phillip schofield's exn opening— co—presenter phillip schofield's exit opening the— co—presenter phillip schofield's exit opening the show today alongside— exit opening the show today alongside new— exit opening the show today alongside new this morning presenter— alongside new this morning presenter josie— alongside new this morning presenterjosie gibson. ms wnueagnny— presenterjosie gibson. ms willoughby said she felt shaken, enabled— willoughby said she felt shaken, enabled and— willoughby said she felt shaken, troubled and let— willoughby said she felt shaken, troubled and let down by seneneaa— troubled and let down by schofield after he admitted to an anar— schofield after he admitted to an affair with— schofield after he admitted to an affair with a— schofield after he admitted to an affair with a much younger nae— an affair with a much younger nae wank— an affair with a much younger male work colleague . happy news male work colleague. happy news to male work colleague. happy news no end— male work colleague. happy news no end nann— male work colleague. happy news to end with princess— male work colleague. happy news to end with princess eugenie has announced the— to end with princess eugenie has announced the birth of her second— announced the birth of her second child.— announced the birth of her second child. it's a boy named ernest— second child. it's a boy named naneen george— second child. it's a boy named ernest george ,_ second child. it's a boy named ernest george , ronnie ernest george, ronnie brooksbank.- ernest george, ronnie brooksbank. she posted a pnenegnapn— brooksbank. she posted a photograph on her instagram aeeeann— photograph on her instagram account earlier— photograph on her instagram account earlier today saying he nann— account earlier today saying he was born on the— account earlier today saying he was born on the 30th of may. nineeee— was born on the 30th of may. princess eugenie— was born on the 30th of may. princess eugenie says son august is princess eugenie says son august as already— princess eugenie says son august is already loving— princess eugenie says son august is already loving being a big

nnennen— is already loving being a big nnennen en— is already loving being a big brother on tv— is already loving being a big brother on tv ,_ is already loving being a big brother on tv , online, dab+ brother on tv, online, dab+ nano— brother on tv, online, dab+ radio and— brother on tv, online, dab+ radio and the— brother on tv, online, dab+ radio and the tune in app. this is en— radio and the tune in app. this is en newe— radio and the tune in app. this is gb news, britain's news. channel se- channel so say rishi channel- so say rishi sunak cnannet— so say rishi sunak goes to dover . ana— so say rishi sunak goes to dover . and remember,— so say rishi sunak goes to dover . and remember, this- so say rishi sunak goes to dover . and remember, this is- so say rishi sunak goes to dover . and remember, this is the man who's made some big key pledges. this is the man who says you can trust me and he wants to restore faith in politics. have a listen to this . now, some said this to this. now, some said this premen— to this. now, some said this pmyyem nae— now, some said this problem was insoluble or just a face— problem was insoluble or just a face an— problem was insoluble or just a face on men— problem was insoluble or just a fact of 21st century— problem was insoluble or just a fact of 21st century life. they teen— fact of 21st century life. they teen nann— fact of 21st century life. they lost faith in— fact of 21st century life. they lost faith in politicians who put— lost faith in politicians who pen in— lost faith in politicians who pen in ne— lost faith in politicians who put in the hard— lost faith in politicians who put in the hard yards to do eenennng— put in the hard yards to do something about it. put in the hard yards to do something about it . and of something about it. and of course, we still— something about it. and of course, we still have a long way to course, we still have a long way no 90— course, we still have a long way no 90 .— course, we still have a long way no 90 . nan— course, we still have a long way no go . nan an— course, we still have a long way to go . but in the— course, we still have a long way to go . but in the five months to go. but in the five months ence— to go. but in the five months n— to go. but in the five months since i launched— to go. but in the five months since i launched the plan, eneenea— since i launched the plan, crossings are— since i launched the plan, crossings are now . down 20% crossings are now. down 20% compared— crossings are now. down 20% compared ne— crossings are now. down 20% compared to last— crossings are now. down 20% compared to last year. crossings are now. down 20% compared to last year . so there

compared to last year. so there you— compared to last year. so there you — compared to last year. so there you vea— compared to last year. so there you are. you can— compared to last year. so there you are. you can trust- compared to last year. so there you are. /:::. if" compared to last year. so there you are. 43. ca" 4.::: you are. you can trust me. you know, i'm a man of my word. crossings are down 20. well, i suppose on the face of it, you might think it sounds slightly impressive . and there's one impressive. and there's one claim that he can actually make, which is the number of albanians coming has reduced because, yes, 1800 have been deported back to albania after all, none of them should ever have been able to claim asylum in this country. but what he boasts about the number of albanians being down, let me tell you what he will not talk about. that is the fact that 12,800 albanians who came in small boats last year awaiting their so—called asylum claims have now skipped their bail terms. they've disappeared out of the hotels, the hostels , out of the hotels, the hostels, the private houses, and they're now out there in this country. and guess what? they're doing? they've joined the criminal community. you didn't hear that from rishi sunak today. community. you didn't hear that from rishi sunak today . and he from rishi sunak today. and he even tried to say that we are

doing better than the rest of europe in dealing with this problem . crossings elsewhere in problem. crossings elsewhere in europe— problem. crossings elsewhere in europe ae— problem. crossings elsewhere in europe an— problem. crossings elsewhere in europe are up are— problem. crossings elsewhere in europe are up are up— crossings elsewhere in europe are up are up by almost a anna— europe are up are up by almost a nnna even— europe are up are up by almost a nnna ene— europe are up are up by almost a third over the similar time penan— third over the similar time period .— third over the similar time penea . ana— third over the similar time period . and yet crossings into period. and yet crossings into the period. and yet crossings into nne un— period. and yet crossings into nne un ae— period. and yet crossings into the uk are down— period. and yet crossings into the uk are down by a fifth. i anne— the uk are down by a fifth. i ennk anae— the uk are down by a fifth. i think that should tell us eenennne— think that should tell us something that something is going— something that something is gonna en— something that something is going on nee— something that something is going on here and that's the resen— going on here and that's the neean. ._ going on here and that's the result, i think— going on here and that's the result, i think of— going on here and that's the result, i think of the actions anae— result, i think of the actions nnan nee— result, i think of the actions that we've put— result, i think of the actions that we've put place and that we've put in place and nnene-e— that we've put in place and there'slrange_ that we've put in place and there'slrange of- that we've put in place and there's range of different there's a range of different aenene— there's a range of different- aenene—naaee actions that we've put in place anae— actions that we've put in place nan—ne- actions that we've put in place nnan—ne nnan l actions that we've put in place nnan—ne nnan | that are contributing to that. us that are contributing to that. us nan — that are contributing to that. us rishi sunak_ that are contributing to that. us rishi sunak what- that are contributing to that. us rishi sunak what it- that are contributing to that. us rishi sunak what it tells you is that is the mediterranean and this is the english channel. and for the last three a half for the last three and a half weeks, single day we have weeks, every single day we have had north easterly airflow had a north easterly airflow coming through straits of coming through the straits of doven coming through the straits of dover. in fact, i've never known a northeasterly wind at this time of the year to last for this long. there have only been a couple of days in the last three and a half weeks on which any boats at all would cross. so to compare us with the mediterranean is crazy. and frankly , we, as you say , numbers frankly, we, as you say, numbers crossing the mediterranean have

risen sharply. that should worry you even more because guess what? the number one destination for many of those people is going to be. it's going to be right here. and i wonder about the timing of this visit to dover after all, nobody knew about it until the last minute. normally, a pm going to dover to talk about this would have been trailed to all the media outlets. last week . no, this was outlets. last week. no, this was a very last minute thing. let me tell you why. because from sunday, the weather changes completely. it's the end of the big anticyclone in the north sea . it's the end of the strong north easterly breezes. if the forecast is anything like right from this sunday, we will have 8 to 10 days of absolutely perfectly calm weather here. we know there are many, many thousands , possibly even tens of thousands, possibly even tens of thousands, possibly even tens of thousands from dunkirk. right. the way down west of le touquet

to berck, waiting to cross . we to berck, waiting to cross. we also have good intel that up to also have good intel that up to a month ago they were struggling for engines or the engines they were getting from china were substandard. we're told that problem has been solved. so rishi sunak, who is the biggest spinner we've had as a prime minister since tony blair, cynically and deliberately chose today to go to dover to tell you the numbers are down 20. and what we do know is whilst the albania may not be coming in the same numbers, there are now young men from all over the indian subcontinent. young men from all over the indian subcontinent . again, indian subcontinent. again, people i would have thought with no from india in no right from india in particular to claim asylum. and yet they are the ones that are now making up many of the numbers. so i'm asking you, is rishi right? give me your view. farage at gb news .com. i think, frankly , this is pure cynical frankly, this is pure cynical politics from a prime minister who may be good at spin, but frankly i don't think is going to deliver very much on this at

all. joining me is tony smith , all. joining me is tony smith, former director general of the uk border force, who is now managing director of fatima's global . tony down 20. it's global. tony down 20. it's a huge win. that's what he says . huge win. that's what he says. well, i'm not quite as pessimistic- well, i'm not quite as pessimistic as you are, nigel, aboun— pessimistic as you are, nigel, anean ene— pessimistic as you are, nigel, about this. you— pessimistic as you are, nigel, about this. you know far more aboun— about this. you know far more about ene— about this. you know far more about the weather than i do. van-e— about the weather than i do. van-e gen— about the weather than i do. van-e get a— about the weather than i do. you've got a sailing boat out anae— you've got a sailing boat out nnene. ana— you've got a sailing boat out there, and you're— you've got a sailing boat out there, and you're out there negaaany— there, and you're out there neganany .— there, and you're out there regularly , but— there, and you're out there regularly , but be thankful for regularly, but be thankful for small— regularly, but be thankful for small mercies. _ regularly, but be thankful for small mercies. \a gut; regularly, but be thankful for small mercies. \a 92; my; regularly, but be thankful for small mercies. \a 92; van; ynzzflz; small mercies. nigel. we were anticipating potentially double, if not treble last year's figure, weren't we? and actually , if we're 20% down up until now, till the end of may, that's pretty good. and he is right. external eu border 30% up and you know the central med route quadrupled in the first three months. so that's an awful lot of people getting into the schengen zone. yes. but they're not all getting across the engush not all getting across the english channel and arriving here. irarely english channel and arriving here. i rarely i disagree with you,— here. i rarely i disagree with yea. nan— here. i rarely i disagree with yea. nan .— here. i rarely i disagree with you, but i think— here. i rarely i disagree with you, but i think to- “642; i rarely i disagree with you, but i think to say the

nanene— you, but i think to say the numbers are— you, but i think to say the numbers are 3—3 and a half times nenen— numbers are 3—3 and a half times higher nea— numbers are 3—3 and a half times higher for crossing— numbers are 3—3 and a half times higher for crossing the med, but it's higher for crossing the med, but are non— higher for crossing the med, but it's not happening. here is a goon— it's not happening. here is a good thing-— it's not happening. here is a good annng. n— it's not happening. here is a good thing. i think this is a neare— good thing. i think this is a fool's argument. what it means is fool's argument. what it means as ene— fool's argument. what it means is the numbers— fool's argument. what it means is the numbers coming into europe— is the numbers coming into europe ae— is the numbers coming into europe are going through the reef— europe are going through the reef and— europe are going through the roof and many— europe are going through the roof and many of them will be neaaea— roof and many of them will be neaaea nan— roof and many of them will be headed for this— roof and many of them will be headed for this country. so, no, i headed for this country. so, no, l-agree_ headed for this country. so, no, l-agree nann— headed for this country. so, no, i-agree with you- headed for this country. so, no, i agree with you all on i don't agree with you at all on man— i don't agree with you at all on nnan ana— i don't agree with you at all on nnan ana .— i don't agree with you at all on that. and i promise you it waen-n— that. and i promise you it waen-n ease— that. and i promise you it wasn't just may in which the neannen— wasn't just may in which the weannen wa— wasn't just may in which the weather was bad. it was march for weather was bad. it was march nan-ene— weather was bad. it was march for-the whole- weather was bad. it was march for-the whole of- weather was bad. it was march for the whole of the for almost the whole of the nannn. — for almost the whole of the month. barely— for almost the whole of the month. barely a— for almost the whole of the month. barely a boat came . so, month. barely a boat came. so, week.— month. barely a boat came. so, new yew— month. barely a boat came. so, new. you knew.— month. barely a boat came. so, look, you know, whether it's nome— look, you know, whether it's 40,000, 50,000,— look, you know, whether it's 40,000, 50,000, 80,000, i've no wea— 40,000, 50,000, 80,000, i've no idea .— 40,000, 50,000, 80,000, i've no idea . wen-we— 40,000, 50,000, 80,000, i've no idea . you've no— 40,000, 50,000, 80,000, i've no idea . you've no idea.— 40,000, 50,000, 80,000, i've no idea . you've no idea. we were idea. you've no idea. we were exneenna— idea. you've no idea. we were expeenne a— idea. you've no idea. we were expeenng a very— idea. you've no idea. we were expecting a very big number, but , i expecting a very big number, but . i mean— expecting a very big number, but , i mean, come back. come back in , i mean, come back. come back an a— , i mean, come back. come back an a nanngnn— , i mean, come back. come back in a fortnight after— , i mean, come back. come back in a fortnight after this calm weannen— in a fortnight after this calm weather and— in a fortnight after this calm weather and that's why i think he weather and that's why i think ne eneee— weather and that's why i think ne eneee ne— weather and that's why i think ne eneee we 90— weather and that's why i think he chose to go today. i think i anne— he chose to go today. i think i ennw nney— he chose to go today. i think i think they know— he chose to go today. i think i think they know the calmer weannen— think they know the calmer weannen n— think they know the calmer weather is coming with the albanians— weather is coming with the aiianians .— weather is coming with the albanians . we— weather is coming with the albanians . we have made some albanians. we have made some ingress— albanians. we have made some progress ani— albanians. we have made some progress and fair— albanians. we have made some progress and fair is fair. so new— progress and fair is fair. so new nas— progress and fair is fair. so new nas ne— progress and fair is fair. so how has he been allowed to depen— how has he been allowed to ienen weenie— how has he been allowed to deport people back to albania? so deport people back to albania? se iney-we— deport people back to albania? so they've been— deport people back to albania? so they've been working on aiiania— so they've been working on albania for— so they've been working on albania for a— so they've been working on albania for a long time. inane-s— albania for a long time. there's been— albania for a long time. there's been a- albania for a long time. there's been a task- albania for a long time. there's been a task force in albania, nigel, which has

involved us having people, border officers over there border force officers over there helping them really train helping them really to train them, capacity there and them, build capacity there and actually experience . and actually know my experience. and i've worked with lots of different agencies. different border agencies. i used us frontex used to represent us at frontex when in the eu and when we were in the eu and actually there is a common purpose border . purpose amongst border. operationally, nobody really likes people smugglers or international organisations. they don't all have the capacity. i think there has capacity. so i think there has been some real outreach to albania to help them to work and build better borders , better build better borders, better systems themselves. good collaboration on and the key which i've said to you before to all of this is returns . we have all of this is returns. we have to start returning people because up until recently we weren't removing anybody who was coming by small boat we have now. right. so only 1800. now. all right. so only 1800. and you say, well, there's and you can say, well, there's thousands haven't gone thousands that haven't gone 12,000. there's12,800 have 12,000. there's 12,800 have skipped— 12,000. there's 12,800 have skipped-ani— 12,000. there's 12,800 have skipped - and are - 12,000. there's 12,800 have skipped-and are on- 7 000 there's 12,800 have skipped and are on the run. skipped bail and are on the run. indeed.— skipped bail and are on the run. inieea nigel-— skipped bail and are on the run. indeed, nigel. but— skipped bail and are on the run. indeed, nigel. but we— skipped bail and are on the run. indeed, nigel. but we never- indeed, nigel. but we never we've never been able to remove all the illegal immigrants. in my experience, that's my 40 years experience, that's never it about never happened. it is about being to get removals going being able to get removals going and get that message out there to people who want to come, who

are thinking about it, or on tiktok looking up the possibilities paying ,5,000 possibilities of paying ,5,000 to get in a boat from calais to dover to find yourself back in tirana. why up the odds? is it better off actually trying somewhere else in the eu to stay there they're really there? what? they're really betting boots on? of betting their boots on? of course, government course, this government is rwanda . that's trigger rwanda. that's the real trigger for me, because as you know, that case is still in the court of appeal. it's been in the courts for a very long time now. if the home office ever get the authorities and the border force ever get the legal authorities they need to put people on flights to rwanda, i think that's huge for them. yeah it's been 14 months now since the rwanda announcement. £140 million has been spent- million has been spent and not a sinaie— million has been spent and not a sineie eesen— million has been spent and not a single person has— million has been spent and not a single person has gone. and we do single person has gone. and we we nine— single person has gone. and we do find ourselves— single person has gone. and we do find ourselves don't we, tied up do find ourselves don't we, tied an en— do find ourselves don't we, tied an en ine— do find ourselves don't we, tied up or the government finds insen— up or the government finds iiseii een— up or the government finds itself, even if— up or the government finds itself, even if it— up or the government finds itself, even if it really does wani— itself, even if it really does wane ee— itself, even if it really does want to deal— itself, even if it really does want to deal with this problem. but want to deal with this problem. newlines— want to deal with this problem. butlfinds-tied- want to deal with this problem. butlfinds-tied up- want to deal with this problem. but finds tied up in but it finds itself tied up in ieeai— but it finds itself tied up in legal difficulties and of course . eie— legal difficulties and of course , our old friend,— legal difficulties and of course , our old friend, the european cewn— , our old friend, the european cewn ei— , our old friend, the european court of human— , our old friend, the european court of human rights in swasiewa— court of human rights in

strasbourg, ultimately strasbourg, they ultimately eiayee— strasbourg, they ultimately eiayee ine— strasbourg, they ultimately played the decisive role in seeing— played the decisive role in stopping that_ played the decisive role in stopping that plane going stopping that plane from going to stopping that plane from going ie iewanea. — stopping that plane from going to rwanda. and— stopping that plane from going to rwanda. and it's interesting evou— to rwanda. and it's interesting .yew knew.— to rwanda. and it's interesting , you know, chalk, who's come in ane— , you know, chalk, who's come in and is— , you know, chalk, who's come in and is eeaiine— , you know, chalk, who's come in and is dealing with— , you know, chalk, who's come in and is dealing with law within the and is dealing with law within ine canines.— and is dealing with law within the cabinet, has— and is dealing with law within the cabinet, has made it clear we win— the cabinet, has made it clear we wiii nei— the cabinet, has made it clear we will not be— the cabinet, has made it clear we will not be leaving the echr. so we will not be leaving the echr. se i— we will not be leaving the echr. se i een-i— we will not be leaving the echr. so i don't know— we will not be leaving the echr. so i don't know where we go with all so i don't know where we go with aii ei— so i don't know where we go with aii ei anis— so i don't know where we go with all of this, but— so i don't know where we go with all of this, but i— so i don't know where we go with all of this, but i suspect i suspect— all of this, but i suspect i swseeei ii— all of this, but i suspect i suspect i'd be— all of this, but i suspect i suspect i'd be very surprised if a sineie— suspect i'd be very surprised if a sineie eesen— suspect i'd be very surprised if a single person goes to rwanda tnis— a single person goes to rwanda tnis yea.— a single person goes to rwanda inis yean just— a single person goes to rwanda this year, just given how long all this year, just given how long aii wis— this year, just given how long all this takes. _ this year, just given how long all this takes. now, suella braverman today has made a statement— braverman today has made a statement in— braverman today has made a statement in the— braverman today has made a statement in the commons. she said— statement in the commons. she said ine— statement in the commons. she said the asylum _ statement in the commons. she said the asylum initial decision backlog— said the asylum initial decision iaeiiee is— said the asylum initial decision backlog is down— said the asylum initial decision backlog is down by 17,000 and we're on track— backlog is down by 17,000 and we're on track to— backlog is down by 17,000 and we're on track to abolish all ieeaey— we're on track to abolish all iegaey ases— we're on track to abolish all iegaey ey— we're on track to abolish all legacy cases by the end of this year.— legacy cases by the end of this yean nawine— legacy cases by the end of this year, having doubled the number of year, having doubled the number ei asyiwn— year, having doubled the number of asylum decision— year, having doubled the number of asylum decision makers over the of asylum decision makers over we iasi— of asylum decision makers over we iasi iwe— of asylum decision makers over the last two years. _ of asylum decision makers over the last two years. now, there a repen— the last two years. now, there was a report out— the last two years. now, there was a report out a— the last two years. now, there was a report out a few months easi— was a report out a few months back saying— was a report out a few months back saying that— was a report out a few months back saying that some caseworkers- back saying that some caseworkers were only dealing way.— caseworkers were only dealing win ene— caseworkers were only dealing with one asylum— caseworkers were only dealing with one asylum case a week . so with one asylum case a week. so nwen— with one asylum case a week. so nwen weak— with one asylum case a week. so much more work from home is what i much more work from home is what i inewen— much more work from home is what i thought .— much more work from home is what lthought . aa— much more work from home is what iinewgni . am is— much more work from home is what i thought . but is she— much more work from home is what i thought . but is she right i thought. but is she right anew— i thought. but is she right about this?— i thought. but is she right about this? are- i thought. but is she right about this? are we actually beginning— about this? are we actually beginning be— about this? are we actually beginning to deal with the baebiege— beginning to deal with the backlog? well— beginning to deal with the backlog? well there's a lot of

weak— backlog? well there's a lot of weak geing— backlog? well there's a lot of weak geing en— backlog? well there's a lot of work going on on— backlog? well there's a lot of work going on on the backlog, wigei. — work going on on the backlog, wigei. i— work going on on the backlog, wigei. i ee— work going on on the backlog, nigel. i do know— work going on on the backlog, nigel. i:i:::i i: nigel. i do know that. and one of the reasons, you know, it's very easy to say, well, why is the caseworker really be the caseworker really must be really we only do one really useless if we only do one case. places you case. there's lots of places you have send the file to even if have to send the file to even if you want to grant somebody asylum, got send it to asylum, you've got to send it to this department. and that department to check this check that security that is there. security threat? is something else? so is there something else? so we've embroiled in we've got ourselves embroiled in this bureaucratic mess, this huge bureaucratic mess, us of asylum cases, which you can't, the best will can't, even with the best will in world, resolve. it's in in the world, resolve. it's in your pending trade because it's been somebody what been sent to somebody else. what they're trying to do is streamline. lived under streamline. now, i lived under a single ownership. i'm a big single case ownership. i'm a big advocate of saying should be advocate of saying you should be empowered a case owner to empowered as a case owner to actually you actually manage that. and you make decision. you make a make the decision. you make a decision make decision. decision and make the decision. now they are working on that, and think that is beginning to and i think that is beginning to have impact. but have some small impact. but the best asylum best way to clear asylum backlogs grant them all backlogs is to grant them all well, really is. and know well, it really is. and i know this from own now. so we do this from my own now. so we do still at case conclude in a case conclusion is either a grant or a removal. there's no halfway house. what's happened we've house. what's happened is we've

stopped so you're stopped removals so you're either granting or everybody's in this. so that's why i keep coming back to this question, nigel, removals . we had an nigel, about removals. we had an absolute focus, laser like absolute focus, a laser like focus removing failed asylum focus on removing failed asylum seekers, and was under the seekers, and that was under the blair government were blair government and you were removing we were removing thousands. we were literally you look at literally if you look at the figures, you know, we compared with now were removing ten, with now we were removing ten, 12, times as many and we were 12, 12 times as many and we were focussed asylum. into focussed on asylum. we got into trouble stopped trouble because we stopped removing criminals and removing foreign criminals and we then not fit for purpose we were then not fit for purpose because moving all because we've been moving all our get the our resources to get the priority it. but we were priority of it. but we were removing lots lots of failed removing lots and lots of failed asylum nigel and now asylum seekers. nigel and now the cohort we're talking about now , i'm going to be if the now, i'm not going to be if the lawyers the courts lawyers allow it, the courts allow not be admitted allow it will not be admitted into asylum system . but so into the asylum system. but so what about the removal? my worry is so soft. take what about the removal? my worry is-so soft. take albania- what about the removal? my worry is-so soft. take albania .- is we're so soft. take albania. beiene— is we're so soft. take albania. beiene we— is we're so soft. take albania. before we began— is we're so soft. take albania. before we began some deportation was before we began some deportation bew— before we began some deportation bbie ei— before we began some deportation was 55% of albanian asylum eiains. — was 55% of albanian asylum eiains. ibis— was 55% of albanian asylum claims. this acas a safe country . an in— claims. this acas a safe country . an in abbiieanb— claims. this acas a safe country , an eu applicant country or a neiieay— , an eu applicant country or a

holiday destination for tens of tnewsanes— holiday destination for tens of thousands of— holiday destination for tens of thousands of brits every year. ane— thousands of brits every year. and we— thousands of brits every year. and we passed— thousands of brits every year. and we passed 55% of those eiains— and we passed 55% of those eiains in— and we passed 55% of those claims in germany passed none 0 bane— claims in germany passed none 0 ianse i— claims in germany passed none 0 banse i bninb— claims in germany passed none 0 france, i think was— claims in germany passed none 0 france, i think was in the low beens— france, i think was in the low beens .— france, i think was in the low beens . be— france, i think was in the low beens . se us— france, i think was in the low teens . so us suella braverman teens. so us suella braverman geb— teens. so us suella braverman geb nie— teens. so us suella braverman gei iii ei— teens. so us suella braverman can get rid of the— teens. so us suella braverman can get rid of the backlog if everyone's allowed to stay, wnisn— everyone's allowed to stay, wnisn i— everyone's allowed to stay, which i have— everyone's allowed to stay, which i have to— everyone's allowed to stay, which i have to say i do find siignbiy— which i have to say i do find slightly depressed. where do we go slightly depressed. where do we ge nen — slightly depressed. where do we ge nen besee— slightly depressed. where do we go from here? we— slightly depressed. where do we go from here? we just wait for the go from here? we just wait for we sewns — go from here? we just wait for we sewns be— go from here? we just wait for the courts. do we? i think so. nigel. for me, the next big landmark. i'll come back in two weeks to see if you're right. and i will your weatherman. and i will be your weatherman. you i saw mark white you know, i saw mark white earlier telling it's all earlier on telling me it's all about weather . okay, well, about the weather. okay, well, i'll come back and see if it is or if it isn't a couple of or if it isn't in a couple of weeks time for me, it's all about it's absolutely about rwanda. it's absolutely dependent. court dependent. now, on that court of appeal will they give appeal judgement, will they give them a to go again, to the them a right to go again, to the supreme court or to the echr? i don't know. you don't know? we've wait for that we've got to wait for that judgement. for me is judgement. but that for me is a real landmark because if we can get court a legal approval to put know all the plans put people i know all the plans are in place and they can do

that quite quickly. not for all of but they start of them, but once they start sending people to rwanda, that sends message. sends a very big message. i think, to the migrants in calais that actually it's not worth it. no. well, here we are. it's ainesb— no. well, here we are. it's almost exactly. _ \ii:::i well, here we are. it's almost exactly. tony, thank you. it's almost exactly. tony, thank you. its—seven- almost exactly. tony, thank you. it's—seven yearsi it's almost exactly seven years ben— it's almost exactly seven years been-vete- it's almost exactly seven years been-webe-i- from the brexit vote that i never believed _ from the brexit vote that i never believed that seven years on, never believed that seven years ii— never believed that seven years be be— never believed that seven years on, i'd be sitting— never believed that seven years on, i'd be sitting in a gb on, i'd be sitting here in a gb wews— on, i'd be sitting here in a gb wews siweie— on, i'd be sitting here in a gb news studio saying, let's hope, bet-s— news studio saying, let's hope, iei-s bees.— news studio saying, let's hope, ieb-s nebe. nebe— news studio saying, let's hope, let's hope, hope that the judges in snasbewig— let's hope, hope that the judges in strasbourg allow us to carry out in strasbourg allow us to carry ebb a— in strasbourg allow us to carry ewi a beiisy— in strasbourg allow us to carry out a policy that— in strasbourg allow us to carry out a policy that over 17 niiiien— out a policy that over 17 million people voted for. but bneie— million people voted for. but bneieiaie. — million people voted for. but there-are. and— million people voted for. but there are. and promise you there we are. and i promise you ane— there we are. and i promise you anelbienise— there we are. and i promise you anelbienise .— there we are. and i promise you anderomise , tony— there we are. and i promise you and promise , tony smith, two and i promise, tony smith, two weeks— and i promise, tony smith, two weeks beeay. — and i promise, tony smith, two weeks today. if— and i promise, tony smith, two weeks today. if i'm wrong about bnewsanes— weeks today. if i'm wrong about thousands crossing the english snannei.— thousands crossing the english snannei. i— thousands crossing the english channel, i will— thousands crossing the english channel, i will i— thousands crossing the english channel, i will i will apologise bneiwseiy— channel, i will i will apologise bneiwseiy .— channel, i will i will apologise bneiwseiy . bab— channel, i will i will apologise profusely , but i'm— channel, i will i will apologise profusely , but i'm pretty profusely, but i'm pretty senain— profusely, but i'm pretty certain that— profusely, but i'm pretty certain that i— profusely, but i'm pretty certain that i won't actually need— certain that i won't actually need be. — certain that i won't actually need be. in— certain that i won't actually need be. in a— certain that i won't actually need to. in a moment, a report, neb— need to. in a moment, a report, neb a— need to. in a moment, a report, neb a asaeenis— need to. in a moment, a report, not a academic report into the sesb— not a academic report into the sesb ei— not a academic report into the cost of lockdown _ not a academic report into the cost of lockdown in and how many iiwes— cost of lockdown in and how many iiwes ib— cost of lockdown in and how many lives it actually— cost of lockdown in and how many lives it actually saved. i've said— lives it actually saved. i've said i— lives it actually saved. i've said it before— lives it actually saved. i've said it before in- lives it actually saved. i've said it before in this programme. i'll say it again. we een-b— programme. i'll say it again. we went neee— programme. i'll say it again. we went need a— programme. i'll say it again. we don't need a long,— programme. i'll say it again. we don't need a long, drawn out ingwiny— don't need a long, drawn out ingwiny .— don't need a long, drawn out ingwiny . we— don't need a long, drawn out inquiry . we need— don't need a long, drawn out inquiry . we need a full apology inquiry. we need a full apology

ben— inquiry. we need a full apology nen ewenybeey— inquiry. we need a full apology from everybody involved. all of bat— from everybody involved. all of bat in— from everybody involved. all of bat in iwsb— from everybody involved. all of bat in iwsb a—

listening to gb news radio. i asked you, is rishi right to say the policy is beginning to work as the numbers that across the channelis as the numbers that across the channel is down by 20? well, now is it all just spin?— channel is down by 20? well, now is it all just spin? because- is it all just spin? because i ininb— is it all just spin? because i bninb ib— is it all just spin? because i bninb it is. — is it all just spin? because i think it is. barbara says to me , i think it is. barbara says to me . i bninb— think it is. barbara says to me , i think rishi— think it is. barbara says to me , i think rishi is— think it is. barbara says to me , i think rishi is trying to babi— , i think rishi is trying to bwii bne— , i think rishi is trying to pull the wool— , i think rishi is trying to pull the wool over our eyes. swsan— pull the wool over our eyes. sisan says— pull the wool over our eyes. sisan says .— pull the wool over our eyes. susan says , gosh, this is a bit susan says, gosh, this is a bit sineng— susan says, gosh, this is a bit sweng. we— susan says, gosh, this is a bit sneng. we ne-s— susan says, gosh, this is a bit strong. no he's a— susan says, gosh, this is a bit strong. no he's a liar and a babe— strong. no he's a liar and a babe nib.— strong. no he's a liar and a babe ini- we— strong. no he's a liar and a fake pm. no one- strong. no he's a liar and a fake pm. no one voted for him. sweng— fake pm. no one voted for him. strong opinions— fake pm. no one voted for him. strong opinions there from susan and isyan— strong opinions there from susan and isyan says— strong opinions there from susan and isyan says ne— strong opinions there from susan and ryan says no. he clearly has no and ryan says no. he clearly has ne inbenesb— and ryan says no. he clearly has ne inbenesi in— and ryan says no. he clearly has no interest in actually solving the no interest in actually solving ine snaii— no interest in actually solving the small boats— no interest in actually solving the small boats crisis. the announcement— the small boats crisis. the announcement of two more barges is a synisai— announcement of two more barges is a cynical publicity stunt. boo— is a cynical publicity stunt. boo webbe— is a cynical publicity stunt. 500 would often arrive in a singie— 500 would often arrive in a singie bay— 500 would often arrive in a singie gay in— 500 would often arrive in a single day in the summer of 22. ana— single day in the summer of 22. and yes— single day in the summer of 22. and yes .— single day in the summer of 22. and yes . we— single day in the summer of 22. and yes , we know— single day in the summer of 22. and yes , we know about the barge and yes, we know about the barge in neniane— and yes, we know about the barge in neniane .— and yes, we know about the barge in portland . the— and yes, we know about the barge in portland . the prime minister in portland. the prime minister beeay— in portland. the prime minister today announced— in portland. the prime minister today announced he's managed to get today announced he's managed to geb twe— today announced he's managed to gei bwe ee— today announced he's managed to get two more barges and those

barges— get two more barges and those banges wee— get two more barges and those barges were both— get two more barges and those barges were both take 500 each. but barges were both take 500 each. bub in— barges were both take 500 each. bub in babe— barges were both take 500 each. but in late august— barges were both take 500 each. but in late august last year, boo— but in late august last year, bee yewng— but in late august last year, 1200 young men— but in late august last year, 1200 young men came in a single day.— 1200 young men came in a single day. se— 1200 young men came in a single way. be beni— 1200 young men came in a single day. so rishi, you're— 1200 young men came in a single day. so rishi, you're going to need— day. so rishi, you're going to need be— day. so rishi, you're going to need be geb— day. so rishi, you're going to need be geb a— day. so rishi, you're going to need to get a lot— day. so rishi, you're going to need to get a lot more barges or a bei— need to get a lot more barges or a bet ee— need to get a lot more barges or a lot more hotels— need to get a lot more barges or a lot more hotels or— need to get a lot more barges or a lot more hotels or a lot more bniwaie— a lot more hotels or a lot more private residents. _ a lot more hotels or a lot more private residents. now, remarkable— private residents. now, remarkable story. overnight, we nave— remarkable story. overnight, we nave been— remarkable story. overnight, we have been talking— remarkable story. overnight, we have been talking a lot about the have been talking a lot about we sesb— have been talking a lot about we sesb ei— have been talking a lot about the cost of lockdown, about some of the cost of lockdown, about some ei bne— the cost of lockdown, about some of the disastrous— the cost of lockdown, about some of the disastrous decisions that were made . and— of the disastrous decisions that were made . and overnight today , were made. and overnight today, the were made. and overnight today, be baiiy— were made. and overnight today, the daily telegraph have bneewsee— the daily telegraph have bneewsee a— the daily telegraph have produced a pretty remarkable aspen.— produced a pretty remarkable neben. ane— produced a pretty remarkable report. and let's— produced a pretty remarkable report. and let's remind ourselves,— report. and let's remind ourselves, the- report. and let's remind ourselves, the first national iesbeewn— ourselves, the first national lockdown was _ ourselves, the first national lockdown was march to june 20th, 20. bab— lockdown was march to june 20th, 20. bub bnen— lockdown was march to june 20th, 20. but then they— lockdown was march to june 20th, 20. but then they did it again wiin— 20. but then they did it again win a— 20. but then they did it again with a second— 20. but then they did it again with a second national lockdown in wewenbei— with a second national lockdown in november of— with a second national lockdown in november of 2020. we then enbenee— in november of 2020. we then entered inte— in november of 2020. we then entered into the— in november of 2020. we then entered into the most extra eneinany— entered into the most extra ordinary complexity of tiers two ordinary complexity of tiers two en beas— ordinary complexity of tiers two or tiers, three— ordinary complexity of tiers two or tiers, three and— ordinary complexity of tiers two or tiers, three and tiers four. ane— or tiers, three and tiers four. ane bnen— or tiers, three and tiers four. and then the— or tiers, three and tiers four. and then the third national iesbeewn— and then the third national lockdown was _ and then the third national lockdown was from january to wasn— lockdown was from january to iiansn zozi. — lockdown was from january to iiansn zozi. i— lockdown was from january to march 2021. i suspect that by ine— march 2021. i suspect that by we ine—

march 2021. i suspect that by we iine ei— march 2021. i suspect that by the time of the— march 2021. i suspect that by the time of the third lockdown, beebie— the time of the third lockdown, beebie — the time of the third lockdown, people were beginning en masse to people were beginning en masse be igneie— people were beginning en masse be igneie ib— people were beginning en masse be igneie ib .— people were beginning en masse to ignore it . but— people were beginning en masse to ignore it. but an academic repen— to ignore it. but an academic neben bnab— to ignore it. but an academic neben bnab is— to ignore it. but an academic report that is out— to ignore it. but an academic report that is out overnight bien— report that is out overnight been be— report that is out overnight from to independent and they are esenennisbs— from to independent and they are economists more— from to independent and they are economists more than anything eise— economists more than anything eise. ane— economists more than anything else. and what— economists more than anything else. and what they've come up wibn— else. and what they've come up wibn is— else. and what they've come up with is remarkable. you see, we beie— with is remarkable. you see, we beie ab— with is remarkable. you see, we were told at the— with is remarkable. you see, we were told at the beginning that if we— were told at the beginning that if the government didn't act nabb— if the government didn't act ban a— if the government didn't act half a million— if the government didn't act half a million people would die. ane— half a million people would die. and bnab— half a million people would die. and bnab was— half a million people would die. and that was pretty bloomin ssany. — and that was pretty bloomin say we— and that was pretty bloomin say we wee— and that was pretty bloomin scary. we were then told, even if bne — scary. we were then told, even if the government— scary. we were then told, even if the government did act, it iibeiy— if the government did act, it was likely that— if the government did act, it was likely that excess deaths of a gwanen— was likely that excess deaths of a gwanei ei— was likely that excess deaths of a gwanei ei a— was likely that excess deaths of a quarter of a million people webbe— a quarter of a million people would occur.— a quarter of a million people would occur. and— a quarter of a million people would occur. and this landmark sbwey— would occur. and this landmark study concludes— would occur. and this landmark study concludes that actually bese— study concludes that actually iesb eewn — study concludes that actually lock down the— study concludes that actually lock down the country had a negiigibie— lock down the country had a negligible effect— lock down the country had a negligible effect , not lock down the country had a negligible effect, not on lock down the country had a negligible effect , not on those negligible effect, not on those dying— negligible effect, not on those eying ei— negligible effect, not on those eying ei cowb— negligible effect, not on those dying of covid. and they say bnab— dying of covid. and they say bnab ib— dying of covid. and they say bnab ib was— dying of covid. and they say that it was a— dying of covid. and they say that it was a policy failure of giganbis— that it was a policy failure of gigantic proportions. and of . bne— gigantic proportions. and of course , the rationale for that course, the rationale for that is we— course, the rationale for that is the economic— course, the rationale for that is the economic damage that it big. — is the economic damage that it big. ine— is the economic damage that it did. the rationale— is the economic damage that it did. the rationale for that is be— did. the rationale for that is the educational— did. the rationale for that is the educational damage that it big. — the educational damage that it big. ane— the educational damage that it did. and frankly— the educational damage that it did. and frankly and frankly, it has did. and frankly and frankly, it

nas been— did. and frankly and frankly, it nas been a— did. and frankly and frankly, it has been a complete and utter eisasben— has been a complete and utter eisasben ane— has been a complete and utter disaster. and nobody has abeiegisee— disaster. and nobody has abeiegisee .— disaster. and nobody has apologised , not matt hancock , apologised, not matt hancock, ei— apologised, not matt hancock, ei bnen— apologised, not matt hancock, none of them have apologised to us none of them have apologised to as ab— none of them have apologised to as ab aii. — none of them have apologised to as ab aii. ane— none of them have apologised to us at all. and all— none of them have apologised to us at all. and all we have is a swing— us at all. and all we have is a sbabie sisbn— us at all. and all we have is a stupid sixth form _ us at all. and all we have is a stupid sixth form a game going on stupid sixth form a game going en ei— stupid sixth form a game going on of whether— stupid sixth form a game going on of whether boris is going to give— on of whether boris is going to give ee— on of whether boris is going to give more information to the bean— give more information to the ingainy ei— give more information to the inquiry or whether rishi and the seweinnenb— inquiry or whether rishi and the government will— inquiry or whether rishi and the government will do so. boris, vou— government will do so. boris, yea knew— government will do so. boris, yea knew in— government will do so. boris, you know i'm coming clean. i'm giving— you know i'm coming clean. i'm giving bnen— you know i'm coming clean. i'm giving bnen abi— you know i'm coming clean. i'm giving them all they want. rishi wiii. — giving them all they want. rishi wiii. wasn— giving them all they want. rishi wiii. wasn ei— giving them all they want. rishi will. much of this— giving them all they want. rishi will. much of this stuff is beasenai— will. much of this stuff is personal and— will. much of this stuff is personal and not necessary. i bninb— personal and not necessary. i bninb bne— personal and not necessary. i think the whole— personal and not necessary. i think the whole thing is anseeniy— think the whole thing is unseemly and wrong, and it's gaibe— unseemly and wrong, and it's gaibe a— unseemly and wrong, and it's quite a thought,— unseemly and wrong, and it's quite a thought, isn't it, that bnab— quite a thought, isn't it, that bnab in— quite a thought, isn't it, that that in sweden— quite a thought, isn't it, that that in sweden ,_ quite a thought, isn't it, that that in sweden , in their inquiry that in sweden, in their inquiry is eene— that in sweden, in their inquiry is done dusted— that in sweden, in their inquiry is done dusted and it's over now , is done dusted and it's over now .baibing— is done dusted and it's over now .baibing ei— is done dusted and it's over now , talking of science— is done dusted and it's over now , talking of science , that can , talking of science, that can be very.— , talking of science, that can be very. very— , talking of science, that can be very, very wrong . is it be very, very wrong. is it bessibie— be very, very wrong. is it possible that— be very, very wrong. is it possible that when it comes to the devastating _ possible that when it comes to the devastating predictions abeab— the devastating predictions abeab wnab— the devastating predictions about what will happen to our siinabe— about what will happen to our agmaa, be— about what will happen to our climate, to our— about what will happen to our climate, to our world, unless we babe— climate, to our world, unless we babe naeisai— climate, to our world, unless we take radical action,— climate, to our world, unless we take radical action, is it bessibie— take radical action, is it possible some of that might have been— possible some of that might have been over exaggerated? but

wnebnen— been over exaggerated? but wnebnen ib— been over exaggerated? but whether it is— been over exaggerated? but whether it is or— been over exaggerated? but whether it is or whether it isn-b.— whether it is or whether it isn-b. wnab— whether it is or whether it isn't, what is— whether it is or whether it isn't, what is clear is that ed iiiiibane— isn't, what is clear is that ed iiiiibane is— isn't, what is clear is that ed miliband is back— isn't, what is clear is that ed miliband is back in the frame. yes:— miliband is back in the frame. ves ne— miliband is back in the frame. ves ne nas— miliband is back in the frame. yes, he has taken— miliband is back in the frame. yes, he has taken a very senior besibien— yes, he has taken a very senior position heading— yes, he has taken a very senior position heading up to the next geneiai— position heading up to the next general election— position heading up to the next general election and it looks biwe— general election and it looks iibe ne— general election and it looks like he wants— general election and it looks like he wants the labour party to like he wants the labour party be neeei— like he wants the labour party to model what— like he wants the labour party to model what joe biden has done in anensa— to model what joe biden has done in anensa .— to model what joe biden has done in america . biden's_ to model what joe biden has done in america . biden's package in in america. biden's package in anensa— in america. biden's package in anensa ei— in america. biden's package in america of subsidies for green energy— america of subsidies for green energy totalling— america of subsidies for green energy totalling hundreds of biiiiens— energy totalling hundreds of biiiiens .— energy totalling hundreds of billions . well,— energy totalling hundreds of billions . well, miliband wants billions. well, miliband wants a passage— billions. well, miliband wants a passage inab— billions. well, miliband wants a package that would be about 28 biiiien— package that would be about 28 biiiien every— package that would be about 28 billion every single year. we've abse— billion every single year. we've aise neare— billion every single year. we've also heard the— billion every single year. we've also heard the labour party announcement— also heard the labour party announcement that when they come to announcement that when they come be newes— announcement that when they come be bewen ii— announcement that when they come be eewes ii bney— announcement that when they come to power, if they come to power, bnse-ii— to power, if they come to power, bneie-ii be— to power, if they come to power, bneie-ii be ne— to power, if they come to power, there'll be no new— to power, if they come to power, there'll be no new investment in wenn— there'll be no new investment in wenn sea— there'll be no new investment in wenn sea eii— there'll be no new investment in north sea oil or— there'll be no new investment in north sea oil or gas and the enb-s— north sea oil or gas and the enb-s easy— north sea oil or gas and the gmb's gary smith and 1 or 2 of we— gmb's gary smith and 1 or 2 of bee anens— gmb's gary smith and 1 or 2 of the unions are— gmb's gary smith and 1 or 2 of the unions are beginning to say, webs— the unions are beginning to say, weii. wnab— the unions are beginning to say, well, what about— the unions are beginning to say, well, what about our jobs ? and well, what about our jobs? and consumer groups— well, what about our jobs? and consumer groups are asking if yea— consumer groups are asking if yea ge— consumer groups are asking if yea ge en— consumer groups are asking if you go on pushing us towards bewanis— you go on pushing us towards towards heat— you go on pushing us towards towards heat pumps and much else who towards heat pumps and much else wne san— towards heat pumps and much else wne eisb— towards heat pumps and much else wne pick ae— towards heat pumps and much else who can pick up the— towards heat pumps and much else who can pick up the tab. and i iasb— who can pick up the tab. and i iasb enee— who can pick up the tab. and i just wonder whether i wonder wnebnei— just wonder whether i wonder whether this— just wonder whether i wonder whether this whole headlong commitment—

whether this whole headlong commitment to— whether this whole headlong commitment to net zero is senebning— commitment to net zero is something that— commitment to net zero is something that perhaps a keir sbainen— something that perhaps a keir starmer might— something that perhaps a keir starmer might might reconsider. webs— starmer might might reconsider. weii. ieining— starmer might might reconsider. weii. ieining ne— starmer might might reconsider. well, joining me is michael iasebs— well, joining me is michael jacobs, professor of political eseney— jacobs, professor of political eseney ab— jacobs, professor of political economy at the— jacobs, professor of political economy at the university of the bniweisiby— economy at the university of the university research institute ane— university research institute and a— university research institute and a former— university research institute and a former adviser to gordon biewn— and a former adviser to gordon biewn wnen— and a former adviser to gordon brown when he— and a former adviser to gordon brown when he was prime iiinisben— brown when he was prime minister. and— brown when he was prime minister. and i— brown when he was prime minister. and i think it's signs— minister. and i think it's right, michael, you were very nasn— right, michael, you were very nasn aeane— right, michael, you were very much around at— right, michael, you were very much around at the time of the zoos— much around at the time of the zoos siinabe— much around at the time of the 2008 climate change act . 2008 climate change act. inassa— 2008 climate change act. inaesa i— 2008 climate change act. indeed, i was— 2008 climate change act. indeed, i was nice- 2008 climate change act. indeed, i was nice to- 2008 climate change act. indeed, i was nice to be on your programme. very good. very good to have you. look, you know, we all to have you. look, you know, we aii wanb— to have you. look, you know, we aii wanb a— to have you. look, you know, we all want a clean,— to have you. look, you know, we all want a clean, green,- look, you know, we all want a clean, green, good enwenenb— all want a clean, green, good environment to— all want a clean, green, good environment to live in. there's no environment to live in. there's ne gaesbien— environment to live in. there's no question about— environment to live in. there's no question about that. but do you— no question about that. but do yea-bns— no question about that. but do yea-bne eeinb— no question about that. but do you the point making you see the point i'm making bnab— you see the point i'm making bnab-eiib- you see the point i'm making that-gmb speak. you see the point i'm making that gmb speak up as that when the gmb speak up as weiabiy— that when the gmb speak up as weiabiy as— that when the gmb speak up as weiabiy as bney— that when the gmb speak up as volubly as they have about the eebenbiai— volubly as they have about the potential loss— volubly as they have about the potential loss of— volubly as they have about the potential loss of jobs in the wenn— potential loss of jobs in the wenn sea— potential loss of jobs in the wenn sea .— potential loss of jobs in the north sea , and— potential loss of jobs in the north sea , and when consumers north sea, and when consumers sban— north sea, and when consumers sban be— north sea, and when consumers sban be geb— north sea, and when consumers start to get scared,— north sea, and when consumers start to get scared, not just abeab— start to get scared, not just abeab bne— start to get scared, not just about the amount of subsidy abeaey— about the amount of subsidy abeaey en— about the amount of subsidy already on their— about the amount of subsidy already on their electricity biiis— already on their electricity biiis .— already on their electricity biiis . bab— already on their electricity bills, but the— already on their electricity bills , but the idea of heat bills, but the idea of heat pumps,— bills, but the idea of heat eanes wnisn— bills, but the idea of heat pumps, which in, you know, an eigen— pumps, which in, you know, an eieei nease— pumps, which in, you know, an older house, it's— pumps, which in, you know, an older house, it's going to be signs— older house, it's going to be eight, £10,000.— older house, it's going to be

eight, £10,000. and i just enie— eight, £10,000. and i just wonder whether the sort of ed iiiiibane— wonder whether the sort of ed miliband school— wonder whether the sort of ed miliband school of what we ought to miliband school of what we ought be be— miliband school of what we ought be be abeab— miliband school of what we ought to do about climate— miliband school of what we ought to do about climate change, wnebnei— to do about climate change, whether that— to do about climate change, whether that perhaps is rather ab— whether that perhaps is rather ab bene— whether that perhaps is rather more at home in— whether that perhaps is rather more at home in islington in new— more at home in islington in nenn beneen— more at home in islington in north london than it is in the bee— north london than it is in the bee waii— north london than it is in the red wall seats— north london than it is in the red wall seats that labour needs to red wall seats that labour needs be win— red wall seats that labour needs be win bask— red wall seats that labour needs be win bask ab— red wall seats that labour needs to win back at the— red wall seats that labour needs to win back at the next election 7 to win back at the next election e webs— to win back at the next election ? well, there's— to win back at the next election ? well, there's polling- to win back at the next election ? well, there's polling on that actually , which is which shows actually, which is which shows that people in the red wall and people all over the country worry about climate change. people have children anddthey people have children and they weary— people have children and they weny abeab— people have children and they worry about the _ people have children and they worry about the kind of world people have children and they worrwe're it the kind of world people have children and they worrwe're leavingnd of world people have children and they worrwe're leaving forof world people have children and they worrwe're leaving for our orld that we're leaving for our sniieien— that we're leaving for our sniieien .— that we're leaving for our children . and— that we're leaving for our children . and the worry about children. and so the worry about siinabe— children. and so the worry about climate change— children. and so the worry about climate change is— children. and so the worry about climate change is universal assess-seanbny- climate change is universal across-country .- climate change is universal across country . and it isn't across the country. and it isn't iasb— across the country. and it isn't iasb bi— across the country. and it isn't just ed miliband,— across the country. and it isn't just ed miliband, of course, bnab— just ed miliband, of course, that-desire- just ed miliband, of course, that-desire to- just ed miliband, of course, that desire to go to net that has the desire to go to net ib— that has the desire to go to net ib is— that has the desire to go to net ib is we— that has the desire to go to net zero. it is the government which nas— zero. it is the government which has committed— zero. it is the government which has committed legally to go to net has committed legally to go to neb ine— has committed legally to go to net zero. the whole of the iabean— net zero. the whole of the iabeai baby— net zero. the whole of the labour party is— net zero. the whole of the labour party is behind the net eeiisy— labour party is behind the net eeiisy. se— labour party is behind the net zero policy. so the zero policy. so is the conservative- zero policy. so is the conservative so are zero policy. so is the cortheiative so are zero policy. so is the corthe other so are zero policy. so is the corthe other parties so are zero policy. so is the corthe other parties and) are zero policy. so is the corthe other parties and s0'e zero policy. so is the corthe other parties and so is all the other parties and so is every— all the other parties and so is every seanbny— all the other parties and so is every country-the- all the other parties and so is every country the world. every country in the world. wnab-s— every country in the world. what's—about. every country in the world. l what's—about this every country in the world. - what's—about this is what's interesting about this is bnab— what's interesting about this is bnab bnene— what's interesting about this is bnab bnene is— what's interesting about this is that there is extraordinary that there is this extraordinary. consensus _that consensus that the impacts that weeen— bne- consensus that the impacts thati we're—on the climate consensus that the impacts that we' so on the climate consensus that the impacts that we' so serious on the climate consensus that the impacts that we' so serious thatin the climate consensus that the impacts that we' so serious that every climate are so serious that every seanbny— are so serious that every seanbny is— are so serious that every country is now- are so serious that every country is now committed to gebbing— country is now committed to geing-sene- country is now committed to getting-zero. so- country is now committed to getting zero. so this is getting to net zero. so this is a bnis—

getting to net zero. so this is a bnis isn-b— getting to net zero. so this is abnis em a— getting to net zero. so this is a this isn't a partisan thing. ibis— a this isn't a partisan thing. inis is— a this isn't a partisan thing. this is something that pretty nasn— this is something that pretty. nasn—seanbny much everybody in the country wanbs— much everybody in the country wanbs be— much everybody in the country wanbs belane— much everybody in the country wants to and which all wants to do and which all seanbies— wants to do and which all countries-now- wants to do and which all countries now trying to countries are now trying to do bese— countries are now trying to do besaase—ei- countries are now trying to doj because—of the because of the urgency of the sibaabien— because of the urgency of the sibaabien . — because of the urgency of the situation . yeah,— because of the urgency of the situation . i425?" a�*i: because of the urgency of the situation. 4 pi: s042; because of the urgency of the situation. 4 eb“i: situation. yeah, and there was a consensus actually everywhere apart from sweden and the state of florida, maybe texas , that of florida, maybe texas, that locking was the only way to locking down was the only way to deal with coronavirus. and that turned out not to be right . i turned out not to be right. i mean, when you say you know, there's huge support for climate change policies, well, not when you tell people what it's actually going to cost them and not when you explain to people, not when you explain to people, you know, the cost is coming from fossilfuels. the you know, the cost is coming from fossil fuels. the reason we nave— from fossil fuels. the reason we nave eseni— from fossil fuels. the reason we have record energy— from fossil fuels. the reason we have record energy bills- l the reason we have record energy bills and eeeeie— have record energy bills and people-pressure. have record energy bills and people pressure from people are such pressure from the people are such pressure from be sesb— people are such pressure from be sesb ei— people are such pressure from the cost of living— people are such pressure from the cost of living is the cost of living crisis is bese— the cost of living crisis is bee ei— the cost of living crisis is because of fossil fuel prices. ib-s— because of fossil fuel prices. ib-s bese— because of fossil fuel prices. it's because gas— because of fossil fuel prices. it's because gas and oil prices nave— it's because gas and oil prices nave isen— it's because gas and oil prices nave se— it's because gas and oil prices have risen so much. and so the abbeneb— have risen so much. and so the abbeneb be— have risen so much. and so the attempt to take— have risen so much. and so the attempt to take us— have risen so much. and so the attempt to take us away from gas and attempt to take us away from gas anelbe— attempt to take us away from gas anelbe bease— attempt to take us away from gas and-to reduce our— attempt to take us away from gas and to reduce our dependence and oil to reduce our dependence on and oil to reduce our dependence en—iaeis— and oil to reduce our dependence en—iaeis is- and oil to reduce our dependence on_fuels is not- on those fossil fuels is not eniy— on those fossil fuels is not eniy geee— on those fossil fuels is not eniy geee ien— on those fossil fuels is not only good for climate change, it's essential— only good for climate change, it's essential for— only good for climate change, it's essential for climate snange.— it's essential for climate change, to change, but it's also going to be-ien— change, but it's also going to be-iei ea— change, but it's also going to be -for our bills. - change, but it's also going to be for our bills. so find be good for our bills. so i find bnis— be good for our bills. so i find bnis neaiiy— be good for our bills. so i find bnis neaiiy an— be good for our bills. so i find this really an extraordinary anganenb. — this really an extraordinary argument. well, hang on a sesene— argument. well, hang on a

second—want. argument. well, hang on a. second. _want the argument. well, hang on a- second. _want the high second. you cannot want the high eases.— second. you cannot want the high enises. beb— second. you cannot want the high prices. let-finish.— second. you cannot want the high prices. let finish. you can prices. let me finish. you can neb— prices. let me finish. you can neb-bns— prices. let me finish. you can neb-bne bign— prices. let me finish. you can not the high prices, but not want the high prices, but bnen— not want the high prices, but bnen yea— not want the high prices, but then you also— not want the high prices, but then you also think that it's neaiiy— then you also think that it's really important— then you also think that it's really important that have really important that we have neae—bne- really important that we have neae—bne eiii more oil and gas. it's the oil ane— more oil and gas. it's the oil and gas— more oil and gas. it's the oil and gas enses— more oil and gas. it's the oil and gas prices which causing and gas prices which are causing the-inflation— and gas prices which are causing the-inflation-cost. the terrible inflation and cost of the terrible inflation and cost ei—bnab- the terrible inflation and cost ei—bnab we- the terrible inflation and cost of_that we have. of living crisis that we have ine— of living crisis that we have now. the price— of living crisis that we have now. the price of gas is now iewei— now. the price of gas is now iewen bnan— now. the price of gas is now lower than it— now. the price of gas is now lower than it was, is now lower bnan— lower than it was, is now lower bnan-beieie— lower than it was, is now lower than-before putin- lower than it was, is now lower than before putin invaded than it was before putin invaded bkiaine. — than it was before putin invaded bkiaine. ves— than it was before putin invaded ukraine. 4:3 e: can f ukraine. yes, commodity prices can be volatile. i get that . i can be volatile. i get that. i understand that fully. but let's face it, wind energy has over the last couple of decades , cost the last couple of decades, cost every household a great deal of money. and because of this consensus that you talk about between labour, the conservatives, cobbley and all, you know, people hadn't realised that they were spending an extra 20, 25% on their bills to subsidise wind energy. the point, the point, subsidise wind energy. the point, the point , michael, subsidise wind energy. the point, the point, michael, i'm making is this is 8, so less than a 10th of your energy bill. and of course now it's been baken— and of course now it's been baken away— and of course now it's been taken away from _ and of course now it's been taken away from your energy biii. — taken away from your energy biii. se— taken away from your energy biii. se in— taken away from your energy bill. so in fact,— taken away from your energy bill. so in fact, your energy biki— bill. so in fact, your energy bill doesn't— bill. so in fact, your energy bill doesn't have any green iewies— bill doesn't have any green iewies en— bill doesn't have any green levies on it.— bill doesn't have any green levies on it. that's now being eaie— levies on it. that's now being eaie ien— levies on it. that's now being eaie ien by— levies on it. that's now being paid for by general taxation. bab— paid for by general taxation. bablwas— paid for by general taxation. butlwas less— paid for by general taxation.

but was less than and of but it was less than 10. and of course, your energy bill has more-doubled- course, your energy bill has more doubled because of the more than doubled because of the rise-ei— more than doubled because of the rise-ei iessii— more than doubled because of the rise _of fossil fuels. - rise in prices of fossil fuels. webs— rise in prices of fossil fuels. well,-agree. would- rise in prices of fossil fuels. biennial ebg ”cc: would it be well, we'll agree. would it be bebbeie — well, we'll agree. would it be better? we'll agree to disagree on that. undergo these extraordinary- undergo these extraordinary energy price weiabiiiby— extraordinary energy price volatility price rises volatility and price rises or renewables,_ volatility and price rises or. renewables,_reliable renewables, which are reliable ane— renewables, which are reliable ane-bnen— renewables, which are reliable and-then-mostl and cheap, then i think most eeeeie— and cheap, then i think most eeeeie wiii— and cheap, then i think most eeeeie wiii say.— and cheap, then i think most people will say, let's go for be— people will say, let's go for the renewables and then we get a sane— the renewables and then we get a safe siinabe— the renewables and then we get a safe climate to— the renewables and then we get a safe climate to michael, renewables— safe climate to michael, renewables not cheap. safe climate to michael,- renewables-not cheap. they renewables are not cheap. they can-b— renewables are not cheap. they san-b sawiws— renewables are not cheap. they can't survive without subsidy. but you and i would disagree on that. for moment, that. and yes, for the moment, but subsidies but they've taken the subsidies off. they're going to go off. but but they're going to go back on. but here's my point. and they are getting cheaper. neae-s— and they are getting cheaper. bees-being- and they are getting cheaper. here's being installed here's my point. being installed ewenywneie— here's my point. being installed everywhere world. everywhere around the world. nsn-ss— everywhere around the world. neae-sneeinb. — everywhere around the world. here's-point. .labour- everywhere around the world. i here's-point. .labour want here's my point. if labour want to win back those red wall seats, if they're going to carry on with current government policy to get rid, for example , policy to get rid, for example, for example of gas boilers and replace them with very expensive heat pumps, if they if they're serious about us having very expensive kyiv and perhaps unreliable electric cars after 2030, they will struggle with

those policies to win back those red wall seats . do you think red wall seats. do you think i don't agree with . no, i don't. don't agree with. no, i don't. okay. because what labour wants to okay. because what labour wants be be— okay. because what labour wants be be is— okay. because what labour wants be be is be— okay. because what labour wants to do is to spend— okay. because what labour wants to do is to spend money on green besnneiegies— to do is to spend money on green technologies all— to do is to spend money on green technologies all around the seanbny— technologies all around the seanbny .— technologies all around the seanbny . so,— technologies all around the country . so, for— technologies all around the country . so, for example, the country. so, for example, the biggesb— country. so, for example, the biggest element— country. so, for example, the biggest element of the 28 biiiien— biggest element of the 28 biiiien a— biggest element of the 28 billion a year— biggest element of the 28 billion a year spending pledge is in— billion a year spending pledge is in energy— billion a year spending pledge is in energy efficiency , which is in energy efficiency, which is in energy efficiency, which is making— is in energy efficiency, which is making homes properly fit to biwe— is making homes properly fit to iiwe in— is making homes properly fit to iiwe in ane— is making homes properly fit to live in and not— is making homes properly fit to live in and not draughty and seba— live in and not draughty and seie. inab— live in and not draughty and cold. that will— live in and not draughty and cold. that will save people's bibs.— cold. that will save people's biiis. vea— cold. that will save people's biiis. kea eay— cold. that will save people's bills. you pay much less energy, ebwieasiy— bills. you pay much less energy, ebwieasiy. ii— bills. you pay much less energy, obviously, if your— bills. you pay much less energy, obviously, if your home is well insaiabee.— obviously, if your home is well insaiabee. ib— obviously, if your home is well insulated, it will— obviously, if your home is well insulated, it will reduce insulated, it will also reduce energy— insulated, it will also reduce our energy demand, which means bnab— our energy demand, which means bnab-nawe— our energy demand, which means bnab-nawe be— our energy demand, which means bnab-nawe be eay- our energy demand, which means that-have to pay so- that we don't have to pay so nasn— that we don't have to pay so nasn en— that we don't have to pay so much on our energy bills as a seanbny— much on our energy bills as a seanbny. kne— much on our energy bills as a seanbny. kne ib— much on our energy bills as a country. and it will, course country. and it will, of course nake— country. and it will, of course make as— country. and it will, of course make us more— country. and it will, of course make us more secure. now, those bnings— make us more secure. now, those bnings wiii— make us more secure. now, those things will create _ make us more secure. now, those things will create jobs in ewenywneie— things will create jobs in everywhere a everywhere where there is a nease— everywhere where there is a nease se— everywhere where there is a house. so constituency in house. so every constituency in the house. so every constituency in bne-is— house. so every constituency in bne-is iikeiy— house. so every constituency in the-is likely to- house. so every constituency in the is likely to benefit the country is likely to benefit bien— the country is likely to benefit isen—i- the country is likely to benefit isen—i bnink| from that policy. and i think kee— from that policy. and i think kee waki— from that policy. and i think red wall voters— from that policy. and i think red wall voters will at red wall voters will look at bnis— red wall voters will look at bnis ane— red wall voters will look at bnis and say— red wall voters will look at bnis and say .— red wall voters will look at this and say , this is we this and say, this is what we wanb. — this and say, this is what we wanb. we— this and say, this is what we wanb. we-iebs- this and say, this is what we want. we-jobs in- this and say, this is what we want. we jobs in our areas, want. we want jobs in our areas, ane— want. we want jobs in our areas, and neae— want. we want jobs in our areas, and bees is— want. we want jobs in our areas, and bees is a— want. we want jobs in our areas, and bees is a way— want. we want jobs in our areas, and here is a way of— want. we want jobs in our areas, and here is a way of creating iebs— and here is a way of creating iebs bab— and here is a way of creating jobs, but we'll— and here is a way of creating jobs, but we'll-be- jobs, but we'll still be ineening— jobs, but we'll still be importing coal jobs, but we'll still be importing-coal gas for importing oil, coal and gas for the importing oil, coal and gas for be newb— importing oil, coal and gas for be nekb ze— importing oil, coal and gas for the next 20 years,— importing oil, coal and gas for the next 20 years, won't we? yes: _ the next 20 years, won't we? yes, absolutely— the next 20 years, won't we? yes, absolutely we will. and we

win— yes, absolutely we will. and we wiii sbiii— yes, absolutely we will. and we wiii sbiii be— yes, absolutely we will. and we will still be producing it. so be— will still be producing it. so be iabeai— will still be producing it. so the labour party's commitment wnisn— the labour party's commitment wnisn is— the labour party's commitment now, which is not— the labour party's commitment now, which is not to have any eeansien— now, which is not to have any eeansien ei— now, which is not to have any expansion of.and- now, which is not to have any expansion of and gas expansion of oil and gas eneeasbien— expansion of oil and gas production the north sea, production in the north sea, eeesn-b—we- doesn't mean that we won't senbinae— doesn't mean that we won't senbinae be— doesn't mean that we won't continue to produce they continue to produce it. they baken-b— continue to produce it. they haven't-we're- continue to produce it. they haven't we're going to haven't said we're going to siese— haven't said we're going to siese-eii- haven't said we're going to close _oil fields. close down the oil fields. iney-we— close down the oil fields. ineybwe iasb— close down the oil fields. they've just said we don't want to they've just said we don't want be-bnen.— they've just said we don't want be-bnen. be— they've just said we don't want to _them. so there- they've just said we don't want to them. so there will to expand them. so there will sbiii— to expand them. so there will sbiii be— to expand them. so there will still be another— to expand them. so there will still be another 25 years still be another 20 to 25 years of still be another 20 to 25 years eilane— still be another 20 to 25 years eilane gas— still be another 20 to 25 years of and gas coming out of the of oil and gas coming out of the web— of oil and gas coming out of the wenn-kne— of oil and gas coming out of the north .and .course,- of oil and gas coming out of the north and course, most north sea. and of course, most of north sea. and of course, most ei-asbaaiiy— north sea. and of course, most of actually exported. we of that actually is exported. we een-b— of that actually is exported. we een-b asbaaiiy— of that actually is exported. we don't actually use— of that actually is exported. we don't actually use very much of our don't actually use very much of ea—is— don't actually use very much of ea—is bnis— don't actually use very much of ea—is bnis is- our own. this is this is michael, this is nonsense. i mean, this is labour party mean, this is the labour party which been very widely which has been very widely supported. the gmb representing bnein— their workers, quite, quite understandable . he doesn't like understandable. he doesn't like it, understandable. he doesn't like a, bab— understandable. he doesn't like a, bab bo— understandable. he doesn't like it, but 150 organisations nearly bnis— it, but 150 organisations nearly bnis bnis— it, but 150 organisations nearly this this week— it, but 150 organisations nearly this this week supported that eeiisy.— this this week supported that policy, including organisations like policy, including organisations iike bne— policy, including organisations like the women's institute. was — like the women's institute. was ib— like the women's institute. was ib is— like the women's institute. well, it is completely- like the women's institute. well, it is completely and utterly mad because when a well runs dry about climate change, when a well runs dry, you have to drill another one. so the idea of what we're pumping at the moment, not running dry, we've got 25 years worth of oil and gas . we've got 25 years worth of oil and gas. michael i don't believe and gas. michael i don't believe a word of it. we will agree. we

nave— a word of it. we will agree. we nave be— a word of it. we will agree. we nave be be— a word of it. we will agree. we nave be be ab— a word of it. we will agree. we have to be at net— a word of it. we will agree. we have to be at net zero.- : e we will agree. we have to be at net zero. so we win— have to be at net zero. so we wiii agree— have to be at net zero. so we wiii agree be— have to be at net zero. so we will agree to disagree , but will agree to disagree, but we'll agree to disagree. but it's good to have you on and it's good to have you on and it's good to see that those of us that are slightly sceptical are dealing with a religion. and it's a religion that has taken over. it's it's a religion that has taken over . it's the experts and this over. it's the experts and this is baneee— over. it's the experts and this is banged by— over. it's the experts and this is funded by tens— it's the experts and this is funded by tens of billions of bakeayeis— is funded by tens of billions of taxpayers money.— is funded by tens of billions of taxpayers money. person i'm not baiking— taxpayers money. person i'm not baiking abeab— taxpayers money. person i'm not talking about religion, i'm baiking— talking about religion, i'm talking about— talking about religion, i'm talking about the scientific iasbs— talking about the scientific facts which _ talking about the scientific facts which are— talking about the scientific facts which are given by 99.9% of facts which are given by 99.9% ei aki— facts which are given by 99.9% of all climate— facts which are given by 99.9% of all climate scientists . of all climate scientists. kignb. — of all climate scientists. kignb. insis— of all climate scientists. right. there we- of all climate scientists. ?g“ which of all climate scientists. 3g“ ”i“22; ”ieb2; which is right. there we are. which is why every right. there we are. which is wny eweny seanbny— right. there we are. which is why every country in- 3g“ ”i“22; ”ieb2; which is why every country in the world is being— why every country in the world is being in— why every country in the world is doing it. yeah,— why every country in the world is doing it. yeah, just like ieskeewn. — is doing it. yeah, just like lockdown. just- is doing it. yeah, just like lockdown. e f: is doing it. yeah, just like- lockdown. just like lockdown. if the experts say it's right one. but there was much more disagreement— but there was much more disagreement about whether or not disagreement about whether or neb i— disagreement about whether or neb i mean— disagreement about whether or neb i i— disagreement about whether or not i mean, i don't have a view on not i mean, i don't have a view en nab.— not i mean, i don't have a view en bnab. bab— not i mean, i don't have a view en bnab. bab ib— not i mean, i don't have a view on that, but it was— not i mean, i don't have a view on that, but it was a much more eisagieenenb— on that, but it was a much more disagreement amongst scientists abeab— disagreement amongst scientists about lockdown,— disagreement amongst scientists about lockdown, mostly in ninesignb.— about lockdown, mostly in hindsight,-say. i about lockdown, mostly in- hindsight,-say. mostly hindsight, i have to say. mostly it's hindsight, i have to say. mostly ib-s-ieeking— hindsight, i have to say. mostly it's looking backwards it's people looking backwards ane— it's people looking backwards ane-nignb- it's people looking backwards and-might not- it's people looking backwards and might not have and saying it might not have been— and saying it might not have been-bning- and saying it might not have been-thing as- and saying it might not have been thing as we been as good a thing as we bneagnb— been as good a thing as we bneagnb ab— been as good a thing as we thought at the— been as good a thing as we thought at the time. the naienby— thought at the time. the naienby ei— thought at the time. the majority of scientists at the bime— majority of scientists at the bins bneagnb— majority of scientists at the time thought was good, but time thought it was good, but siinabe— time thought it was good, but climate scientists there isn't bnab—isi that disagreement. there is ainesb— that disagreement. there is. ainesb—bnsy almost universal. well, they nabb— almost universal. well, they must then we have to

must be right then we have to cut emissions very radically, very quickly. and why the very quickly. and that's why the iabean— very quickly. and that's why the labour-committed- labour party is committed to being— labour party is committed to being-eneagn. i doing that. fair enough. iiisbasb— doing that. fair enough. michael, thank- doing that. fair enough. i michael, thank .well, doing that. fair enough. michael, thank well, there michael, thank you. well, there we that is the we are, folks. that is the prevailing view in this country amongst our leaders, amongst our think tanks . they absolutely think tanks. they absolutely believe in this policy . think tanks. they absolutely believe in this policy. but frankly, if you believe that renewables give you cheap energy, they they do not if you believe they give you reliability, well , frankly, they reliability, well, frankly, they don't . i wish they reliability, well, frankly, they don't. i wish they did . reliability, well, frankly, they don't. i wish they did. in a moment, more on electric cars and why actually rowan atkinson has now become a sceptic

courtroom bombshells airs on dan weebben— courtroom bombshells airs on dan weebben .— courtroom bombshells airs on dan weebben . kne— courtroom bombshells airs on dan wootton . and tonight, 9 pm. wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. till wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. biii .— wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. biii . — wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. biii . webs— wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. till . well, one— wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. till . well, one of- wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. till . till. well, one of the authors of that report into lockdown saying it only saved 1700 lives. and look at the cost on the other side is dr. lars johan , other side is dr. lars johan, professor emeritus at the knut wicksell centre for financial studies at sweden's lund

university, motty, and he joins me down the line . good evening. me down the line. good evening. thank you for joining me down the line. good evening. thank you forjoining us. in thank you for joining us. in terms of this report , were you terms of this report, were you looking i you know, obviously you're an economist. were you looking chiefly at financial costs ? no. first of all, we ask costs? no. first of all, we ask the question, what was the effect of lockdowns on motty rmt? and then once we got that answer , we are able to compare answer, we are able to compare the benefits of lockdowns with the benefits of lockdowns with the cost of lockdowns . and this the cost of lockdowns. and this is the approach that economists always take when they evaluate policies. we have to look at the benefits and the costs of a policy . at the same time . right. policy. at the same time. right. and our result was rather devastating for lockdowns in the sense that they had a negligible effect on mortality motty but enormous costs to society,

economic , political and social economic, political and social costs. yeah. economic, political and social costs . yeah. and somehow sweden costs. yeah. and somehow sweden , costs. yeah. and somehow sweden . we ei— costs. yeah. and somehow sweden , we of course, decided— f yeah. and somehow sweden , we of course, decided not to iesk— , we of course, decided not to iesk eewn. — , we of course, decided not to lock down. and— , we of course, decided not to lock down. and i— , we of course, decided not to lock down. and i understand that yae— lock down. and i understand that you've now concluded your ingainy— you've now concluded your ingainy inbe— you've now concluded your inquiry into the— you've now concluded your inquiry into the covid period . inquiry into the covid period. new— inquiry into the covid period. new nasn— inquiry into the covid period. how much better— inquiry into the covid period. how much better pro rata is sweeen— how much better pro rata is sweden than— how much better pro rata is sweden than the united kingdom new— sweden than the united kingdom webb— sweden than the united kingdom now? well sweden— sweden than the united kingdom now? well sweden stands out as a very— now? well sweden stands out as a very geee— now? well sweden stands out as a very geee sase— now? well sweden stands out as a very geee a— now? well sweden stands out as a very good case, a good case in bne— very good case, a good case in be sense— very good case, a good case in the sense that— very good case, a good case in the sense that we— very good case, a good case in the sense that we did not try ieskeewns— the sense that we did not try lockdowns to _ the sense that we did not try lockdowns to the— the sense that we did not try lockdowns to the same extent as the lockdowns to the same extent as be iik— lockdowns to the same extent as be bk ane— lockdowns to the same extent as the uk and comparing the performance— the uk and comparing the performance of the uk economy ane— performance of the uk economy and bne— performance of the uk economy and the swedish— performance of the uk economy and the swedish economy is a it snews— and the swedish economy is a it snews bnab— and the swedish economy is a it snews bnab we — and the swedish economy is a it shows that we got— and the swedish economy is a it shows that we got away with very low shows that we got away with very iew iissai— shows that we got away with very low fiscal costs— shows that we got away with very low fiscal costs and— shows that we got away with very low fiscal costs and very good economic performance. 42; economic performance. compare to the economic performance. compare to be bk— economic performance. compare to the uk and still our excess mortality is lower than that of the uk . we have all the benefits the uk. we have all the benefits compared to the uk right? i mean

thatis compared to the uk right? i mean that is extraordinary.— compared to the uk right? i mean that is extraordinary. and- compared to the uk right? i mean that is extraordinary. and at- f: ” g“? i mean that is extraordinary. and at a bee — that is extraordinary. and at a bee se— that is extraordinary. and at a bee se bne— that is extraordinary. and at a time. so the final— that is extraordinary. and at a time. so the final thought , time. so the final thought, bans.— time. so the final thought, bans. in— time. so the final thought, bans. ii i— time. so the final thought, lars, if i may,— time. so the final thought, lars, if i may, at- time. so the final thought, lars, if i may, at a time when bne— lars, if i may, at a time when bne wne.— lars, if i may, at a time when be we is— lars, if i may, at a time when the who. is trying to put begebnei— the who. is trying to put begebnen a— the who. is trying to put together a pandemic treaty motty so together a pandemic treaty motty se bnab— together a pandemic treaty motty se bnab bney— together a pandemic treaty motty so that they can— together a pandemic treaty motty so that they can tell us when we need— so that they can tell us when we need be— so that they can tell us when we need be iesk— so that they can tell us when we need to lock down,— so that they can tell us when we need to lock down, what are the iessens— need to lock down, what are the iessens bnab— need to lock down, what are the lessons that we _ need to lock down, what are the lessons that we should learn for the lessons that we should learn for be iabaie— lessons that we should learn for be babe in— lessons that we should learn for the future if this— lessons that we should learn for the future if this ever comes abeab— the future if this ever comes abeab .— the future if this ever comes about, which— the future if this ever comes about, which it— the future if this ever comes about, which it probably will again— about, which it probably will again .— about, which it probably will again . bne— about, which it probably will again , the lesson number one is again, the lesson number one is bnab— again, the lesson number one is bnab ee— again, the lesson number one is bnab ee neb— again, the lesson number one is that do not panic— again, the lesson number one is that do not panic ,_ again, the lesson number one is that do not panic , do not risk, that do not panic, do not risk, neseene— that do not panic, do not risk, neseene be— that do not panic, do not risk, respond to alarmist projections nabbe— respond to alarmist projections made by— respond to alarmist projections made by eeeeie— respond to alarmist projections made by people who do not have a bread— made by people who do not have a bread view— made by people who do not have a bread ei— made by people who do not have a broad view of the— made by people who do not have a broad view of the effects of ieskeewn— broad view of the effects of ieskeewn . — broad view of the effects of lockdown . that's- broad view of the effects of lockdown . broad view of the effects of- lockdown . that's the number one lockdown. that's the number one recommendation. number two, recommendation. number two, recommend let us experiment . let recommend let us experiment. let us not have a global response similar across countries because as scientists , we gather as scientists, we gather evidence by having many different types of strategies tried at the same time, and then we learn from them . some will be we learn from them. some will be successful, like the swedish

one, some will be less successful like the china eas or the uk. one. yeah, no , no. i the uk. one. yeah, no, no. i think that's very wise- 4 i think that's very wise indeed. bans— think that's very wise indeed. bans ienan— think that's very wise indeed. lars johan, thank— think that's very wise indeed. lars johan, thank you for ieining— lars johan, thank you for ieining ne— lars johan, thank you for joining me and well done for year— joining me and well done for year weeen. — joining me and well done for your report. thank you . as your report. thank you. as i keee— your report. thank you. as i keee saying.— your report. thank you. as i keep saying, the— your report. thank you. as i keep saying, the government owe us keep saying, the government owe as an aeeiegy— keep saying, the government owe us an apology. now, electric ieb-s— us an apology. now, electric cars. let's all— us an apology. now, electric cars. let's all buy electric cars. yes, of— cars. let's all buy electric cars. yes, of course. they're wiieiy— cars. yes, of course. they're wildly expensive _ cars. yes, of course. they're wildly expensive . they're so wildly expensive. they're so neawy— wildly expensive. they're so neawy bnab— wildly expensive. they're so heavy that apparently some multi—storey_ heavy that apparently some multi—storey car parks might bnink— multi—storey car parks might bnink abeab— multi—storey car parks might think about banning them. iney-ne— think about banning them. ineybne new— think about banning them. they're now more expensive if yea— they're now more expensive if yea wanb— they're now more expensive if yea wanb be— they're now more expensive if you want to charge them up on the you want to charge them up on be nebenway— you want to charge them up on the motorway than putting anieaeee— the motorway than putting unleaded in— the motorway than putting unleaded in an rowan atkinson, wne-s— unleaded in an rowan atkinson, wne-s beagnb— unleaded in an rowan atkinson, who's bought one— unleaded in an rowan atkinson, who's bought one of these very eeensie— who's bought one of these very expensive cars— who's bought one of these very expensive cars ,_ who's bought one of these very expensive cars , now realises expensive cars, now realises bnab— expensive cars, now realises bnab asbaaiiy— expensive cars, now realises that actually they're not even neaiiy— that actually they're not even neaiiy green— that actually they're not even really green at— that actually they're not even really green at all. and why is bnabe— really green at all. and why is bnabe webs— really green at all. and why is that? well, it's— really green at all. and why is that? well, it's because of all bne— that? well, it's because of all the minerals— that? well, it's because of all the minerals that— that? well, it's because of all the minerals that go into the babbeiies— the minerals that go into the batteries, the _ the minerals that go into the batteries, the very same people bnab— batteries, the very same people bnab ebiesb— batteries, the very same people bnab ebiesb be — batteries, the very same people that object to us— batteries, the very same people that object to us opening up a seai— that object to us opening up a seai nine— that object to us opening up a seai an— that object to us opening up a coal mine, an anthracite coal ine— coal mine, an anthracite coal in— coal mine, an anthracite coal mine in cumbria._ coal mine, an anthracite coal mine in cumbria. but who were all mine in cumbria. but who were aii ien— mine in cumbria. but who were all for electric— mine in cumbria. but who were all for electric cars, don't be — all for electric cars, don't seem to understand that that

means vast amounts of mining all bne— means vast amounts of mining all bne wene. — means vast amounts of mining all over the world. i— means vast amounts of mining all over the world. i think rowan kbkinsen— over the world. i think rowan kbkinsen is— over the world. i think rowan atkinson is right— over the world. i think rowan atkinson is right to be sseebisai— atkinson is right to be sceptical and let me promise you we win— sceptical and let me promise you we wiii sbiii— sceptical and let me promise you we will still be— sceptical and let me promise you we will still be making cars, we win— we will still be making cars, we wiii sbiii— we will still be making cars, we wiii sbiii be— we will still be making cars, we will still be making internal combustion— will still be making internal combustion cars— will still be making internal combustion cars after this iaeisieas— combustion cars after this ludicrous date— combustion cars after this ludicrous date of 2030 set by beas— ludicrous date of 2030 set by boris johnson— ludicrous date of 2030 set by boris johnson and a final what boris johnson and a filial what the boris johnson and a final what bne ianage— boris johnson and a final what the farage moment. you know, beie— the farage moment. you know, bid by— the farage moment. you know, we're told by the— the farage moment. you know, we're told by the academics and ekeeibs— we're told by the academics and ekeens in— we're told by the academics and experts in london— we're told by the academics and experts in london that bob is on the experts in london that bob is on be bean— experts in london that bob is on the beat. make— experts in london that bob is on the beat. make no— experts in london that bob is on the beat. make no difference . the beat. make no difference. kne— the beat. make no difference. kne yeb— the beat. make no difference. kne yeb in— the beat. make no difference. and yet in the— the beat. make no difference. and yet in the little seaside bewn— and yet in the little seaside bewn ei— and yet in the little seaside town of maryport up in cumbria , town of maryport up in cumbria, a bebby— town of maryport up in cumbria, a bebby nas— town of maryport up in cumbria, a bobby has been— town of maryport up in cumbria, a bobby has been back on the beab. — a bobby has been back on the beab. kne— a bobby has been back on the beat. and guess— a bobby has been back on the beat. and guess what? antisocial benawieai— beat. and guess what? antisocial benawiean nas— beat. and guess what? antisocial behaviour has dropped by nearly 50. behaviour has dropped by nearly so. se— behaviour has dropped by nearly be. be ib— behaviour has dropped by nearly be. be ib eees— behaviour has dropped by nearly 50. so it does work— behaviour has dropped by nearly 50. so it does work . and in 50. so it does work. and in a nenenb— 50. so it does work. and in a nenenb iii— 50. so it does work. and in a moment i'll be— 50. so it does work. and in a moment i'll be joined by a saneaignes— moment i'll be joined by a campaigner, ingrid newkirk, wne-s— campaigner, ingrid newkirk, wne-s been— campaigner, ingrid newkirk, who's been campaigning for over 40 who's been campaigning for over so yeas— who's been campaigning for over be years ien— who's been campaigning for over 40 years for the— who's been campaigning for over 40 years for the animal rights group— 40 years for the animal rights gneae biik— 40 years for the animal rights gneae biik .— 40 years for the animal rights group peta . now, she 40 years for the animal rights group peta. now, she and i, she ane— group peta. now, she and i, she and i— group peta. now, she and i, she and i may— group peta. now, she and i, she and i may neb— group peta. now, she and i, she and i may not agree on ewenybning.— and i may not agree on everything, but we're both saneaignes— everything, but we're both campaigners. we're going to find out campaigners. we're going to find eab in— campaigners. we're going to find eab in a— campaigners. we're going to find out in a moment— campaigners. we're going to find out in a moment what her motivations— out in a moment what her motivations are- out in a moment what her motivations are , what she thinks motivations are, what she thinks her achievements— motivations are, what she thinks her achievements are, and what the her achievements are, and what bne iabane— her achievements are, and what the future for— her achievements are, and what the future for us— her achievements are, and what the future for us all is. if

bise— the future for us all is. if iesk wee— the future for us all is. if pesa were to _ the future for us all is. if pesa were to get their way .

it's talking pines. it's talking pines . and i'm it's talking pines. and i'm ieinee— it's talking pines. and i'm ieinee by— it's talking pines. and i'm joined by ingrid newkirk , joined by ingrid newkirk, beaneei— joined by ingrid newkirk, founder of— joined by ingrid newkirk, founder of peta. welcome to the began.— founder of peta. welcome to the enegnan. ingnie— founder of peta. welcome to the program, ingrid cheers. founder of peta. welcome to the program, ingrid cheers . cheers. program, ingrid cheers. cheers. now:— program, ingrid cheers. cheers. wew. i-we— program, ingrid cheers. cheers. news we been— program, ingrid cheers. cheers. now, i've been a— program, ingrid cheers. cheers. now, i've been a long time saneaignes— now, i've been a long time campaigner here. i sort of, you knew.— campaigner here. i sort of, you knew. gebbing— campaigner here. i sort of, you know, getting for— campaigner here. i sort of, you know, getting for on 30 years. my know, getting for on 30 years. my eeiibisai— know, getting for on 30 years. my political campaign is about the my political campaign is about bne ianeeean— my political campaign is about the european union. you've been going— the european union. you've been geing iengei— the european union. you've been geing iengen inan— the european union. you've been going longer than me and pesa bnis— going longer than me and pesa this organisation— going longer than me and pesa this organisation that that we do this organisation that that we ee neae— this organisation that that we be neae gaibe— this organisation that that we do here quite a— this organisation that that we do here quite a lot about . do here quite a lot about. yea-we— do here quite a lot about. you've been— do here quite a lot about. you've been going since 1980. yes— you've been going since 1980. yes wnab— you've been going since 1980. yes what motive— you've been going since 1980. yes what motive did you two binsb— yes what motive did you two binsb geb— yes what motive did you two iinsb geb geing— yes what motive did you two first get going with this saneaigne — first get going with this campaign? �*vnbn2;ee first get going with this campaign? �*vnbn2u g a. campaign? well, i grew up i cared about animals. i grew up i was born in surrey. and i we had a dog in the house and i, you know, sort of the dog as a friend or a brother or something

like that. if anybody had hurt him, i would have been angry . him, i would have been angry. but over time i him, i would have been angry. but overtime i saw him, i would have been angry. but over time i saw different things. i found a pig who was suffering, abandoned on a farm and i was a law enforcement officer . so i took the and i was a law enforcement officer. so i took the pig to the vet . and on the way there, i the vet. and on the way there, i was thinking what i was having for supper and i realised that i had defrosted some pork chops and it occurred to me that i'd never been to a slaughterhouse. but they can't be very pleasant places . and i then investigated places. and i then investigated , found how ghastly they are , , found how ghastly they are, found out about factory farming and thought no body knows about this. and i care about animals and i'm discovering it. it would be really good to have a group and to show other people what's going they could make going on so they could make choices because we're oblivious to cruelties . we don't know to most cruelties. we don't know about dog fur and coming from china, are we are i china, i mean, we are we are i mean, as this country far more than other countries in europe,

in my experience, you know, we are a nation of animal lovers . are a nation of animal lovers. we are in incredibly kind to our eebs— we are in incredibly kind to our eebs. vea— we are in incredibly kind to our eebs. kea een-b— we are in incredibly kind to our pets. you don't generally see sbiays— pets. you don't generally see strays wandering _ pets. you don't generally see strays wandering all over the ease.— strays wandering all over the eiase. as— strays wandering all over the eiase. as yea— strays wandering all over the place, as you would do in many ianeeean— place, as you would do in many european towns— place, as you would do in many european towns and cities . look, european towns and cities. look, i european towns and cities. look, i bnink— european towns and cities. look, i bnink bnis— european towns and cities. look, i think this this— european towns and cities. look, i think this this this debate, bnis— i think this this this debate, this conversation is about food , this conversation is about food . wnene— this conversation is about food . wneie ib— this conversation is about food , where it comes— this conversation is about food , where it comes from . i mean, , where it comes from. i mean, yea.— , where it comes from. i mean, yes. ei— , where it comes from. i mean, yes. ei sease— , where it comes from. i mean, yes. en .— , where it comes from. i mean, yes, of course , that's an yes, of course, that's an ebnisai— yes, of course, that's an ethical choice- yes, of course, that's an ethical choice that individuals nake— ethical choice that individuals nake. kne— ethical choice that individuals make. and i've— ethical choice that individuals make. and i've always made. but i make. and i've always made. but iiasb— make. and i've always made. but i iasb wenese— make. and i've always made. but i just wonder, you— make. and i've always made. but i just wonder, you know , for you i just wonder, you know, for you . bnis— i just wonder, you know, for you . bnis is— i just wonder, you know, for you , this is basically— i just wonder, you know, for you , this is basically about us besening— , this is basically about us becoming completely vegan, isn't it becoming completely vegan, isn't ib e — becoming completely vegan, isn't ib e ib— becoming completely vegan, isn't ib e ib weake— becoming completely vegan, isn't it ? it would be— becoming completely vegan, isn't it ? it would be nice— becoming completely vegan, isn't it? e : “ 02; f it? it would be nice because, i mean , if you think about you mean, if you think about you care about animals, you go to vietnam, they eat monkeys and they eat dogs. and we are appalled as we should be. but if you go to an abattoir here or in any other country , you find any other country, you find chickens and pigs and cows . chickens and pigs and cows. they're absolutely petrified and they're hung up, usually by one

leg. and they have all the weights on their bodies dangling there in misery and they have their throats slit. often they're not stunned or they're not properly stunned. if they're stunned . and i don't think the stunned. and i don't think the average person an who would be like me, who grew up as a meat eaters meat eater or eating my way basically through the animal kingdom, would go and see that and then think, oh, that's all right. i don't care about it. what about fish? what about fish? well, funny . looking at fish? well, funny. looking at ingne-s— fish? well, funny. looking at ingrid's world,— fish? well, funny. looking at ingrid's world, in— �*" e7 �*vnbn2;ee “3 looking at ingrid's world, in ingrid's wene.— ingrid's world, in ingrid's wene. yea— ingrid's world, in ingrid's world, you know, ingrid's world, neb geing— world, you know, ingrid's world, we're not going to— world, you know, ingrid's world, we're not going to have steaks, the we're not going to have steaks, bne saneay— we're not going to have steaks, the sunday roasts— we're not going to have steaks, the sunday roasts out the wineew. — the sunday roasts out the wineew. be— the sunday roasts out the window. so can- the sunday roasts out the window. so can we eat fish in ingne-s. — window. so can we eat fish in ingnebs. webs— window. so can we eat fish in ingrid's. well, we— window. so can we eat fish in ingrid's. well, we can eat. �*vnbn2; ingrid's. well, we can eat. we sab— ingrid's. well, we can eat. we sab abben— ingrid's. well, we can eat. we can eat other things- ingrid's. well, we can eat. we can eat other things that taste like the sunday roast. you know, i really i love steak tartare. i love all these sorts of things, these meaty things, liver these very meaty things, liver and and i've changed. so and onions. and i've changed. so do i. i have changed because i have found that i can eat foods that are very tasty, that i do like. i don't have to sacrifice anything, but i don't want to be

cruel to animals because i was raised to think that cruelty to animals was wrong and most of us are, and that you should be kind. and so the whole group is saying, look, it's not so narrow as you think. it doesn't mean just don't kick the dog or starve the horse. it goes beyond that into these places where most people never visit. and never see. now i get i understand— never see. now i get i understand why- now i get i understand why slaughterhouse eeinb— understand why slaughterhouse beinb ane— understand why slaughterhouse beinb and i— understand why slaughterhouse point and i think— understand why slaughterhouse point and i think most people een-b— point and i think most people een-b wanb— point and i think most people een-b wanb be— point and i think most people don't want to know about it. and i don't want to know about it. and i bnink— don't want to know about it. and i bnink bnab-s— don't want to know about it. and i think that's probably true. bab— i think that's probably true. bab wneie— i think that's probably true. bab wneie i— i think that's probably true. but where i start to sort of neaiiy— but where i start to sort of neaiiy ane— but where i start to sort of neaiiy and i— but where i start to sort of really and i agree it's your sneise— really and i agree it's your sneise ane— really and i agree it's your choice and as— really and i agree it's your choice and as it- really and i agree it's your choice and as it should be, mine— choice and as it should be, ane— choice and as it should be, mine, and that's- choice and as it should be, mine, and that's in a free sesieby— mine, and that's in a free sesieby. new— mine, and that's in a free society, how we - mine, and that's in a free society, how we should live. gee.— society, how we should live. bab. yea— society, how we should live. nab. yea knew.— society, how we should live. but, you know, you basically weaken-b— but, you know, you basically wouldn't have— but, you know, you basically wouldn't have us— but, you know, you basically wouldn't have us keeping pet begs— wouldn't have us keeping pet begs-sabs— wouldn't have us keeping pet dogs-cats either,- wouldn't have us keeping pet dogs cats either, would you? dogs and cats either, would you? i dogs and cats either, would you? i-nawe— dogs and cats either, would you? i-nawe as— dogs and cats either, would you? i-have as breeding- dogs and cats either, would you? i-you have as breeding- dogs and cats either, would you? i-you know as breeding- dogs and cats either, would you? i-you know ,s breeding- dogs and cats either, would you? i-you know , we'veiing- dogs and cats either, would you? i-you know , we've got- dogs and cats either, would you? i-you know , we've got this. them, you know, we've got this situation now at crufts where the one of the winning dogs is one of what we call breeding impaired breeds. they're pugs, they're french bulldogs , they're they're french bulldogs, they're all these little dogs who've been bred to have basically no nose. and you don't even think

about that until someone points it out. i mean, that is an ebene— it out. i mean, that is an extreme example.- e i mean, that is an extreme example. but you know, bnene— extreme example. but you know, bnene ae— extreme example. but you know, there are everywhere. n gi2;e there are everywhere. nigel insis— there are everywhere. nigel there, absolutely. but there are everywhere. n gi2;e “i242; buti there are everywhere. n gi2;e “i242; ei2;ga but i mean, there, absolutely. but i mean, there there, absolutely. but i mean, bnene ae— there, absolutely. but i mean, there are millions— there, absolutely. but i mean, there are millions of- there, absolutely. but i mean, there are millions of us- “i242; ei2;ga but i mean, there are millions of us that keee— there are millions of us that keee eeb— there are millions of us that keee eeb begs— there are millions of us that keep pet dogs and pet cats and we nine— keep pet dogs and pet cats and we find bne— keep pet dogs and pet cats and we find the animal rights extremists— we find the animal rights extremists .— we find the animal rights extremists . that's with extremists. that's fine with you,— extremists. that's fine with yea. wibn— extremists. that's fine with you, with animal rising, they'd sbee— you, with animal rising, they'd sbee een— you, with animal rising, they'd stop even that. _ you, with animal rising, they'd stop even that. �*vnbn2;ee you, with animal rising, they'd stop even that. �*vnbn2;aa stop even that. well, i the way i with them is that i would agree with them is that we have shelters and refuges like battersea dogs, home dogs home. they're full of animals. iney-ie— home. they're full of animals. they're overflowing— home. they're full of animals. they're overflowing .- they're full of animals. they're overflowing . they can't they're overflowing. they can't nine— they're overflowing. they can't find eneagn— they're overflowing. they can't find enough homes. they're overflowing. they can't find enough homes . and so if find enough homes. and so if we're breeding— find enough homes. and so if we're breeding or— find enough homes. and so if we're breeding or we're buying bien— we're breeding or we're buying been keean— we're breeding or we're buying from korean puppy mills, sending begs— from korean puppy mills, sending eegs inbe— from korean puppy mills, sending eegs inbe bnis— from korean puppy mills, sending dogs into this country as if we need— dogs into this country as if we need bnen— dogs into this country as if we need bnen .— dogs into this country as if we need them , there— dogs into this country as if we need them , there are bad need them, there are bad enasbises. — need them, there are bad enasbises. i— need them, there are bad practises. i get- need them, there are bad practises. gi2;e “i242; need them, there are bad practises. g2 4“22 e42; need them, there are bad practises. g2 g“i2;42; e42; practises. i get there are bad practises. i get there are bad practises. i get there are bad practises. i understand that. and i don't want to see them ehhen and i don't want to see them either. are you you famously have stripped off all over the world with your photos, tests, and you tell people that this middle class girl from surrey, you know, but you've also you've also given support to groups like the animal liberation front who are violent , who are

who are violent, who are threatening, who have used tactics akin to terrorism. and i really my big question for you is this. we know protests can be effective. you know, the suffragettes had a protest. now albeit the first world war and munitions factories really got them to vote more quickly. but they were campaigning to have a voice acas in the democratic process. what worries me about you guys know i'm particularly the animal liberation front is you're saying we don't want to engagein you're saying we don't want to engage in a democratic process . engage in a democratic process. we will. we will. we will protest. we will cause you inconvenience, which many groups augn inconvenience, which many groups align to you do. and we want to impose our will on you. and i just ingrid, put this to you. you're very well intentioned. and i believe. i believe that 100. of course you are . but i 100. of course you are. but i worry that what you're doing is fundamentally anti democratic. absolutely not. i think what yae— absolutely not. i think what ye gang,— absolutely not. i think what you're doing, the mistake is bnab— you're doing, the mistake is bnab yae— you're doing, the mistake is that you're lumping everybody begebnei— that you're lumping everybody begebnen ane— that you're lumping everybody together and there are as many basbiss— together and there are as many basbiss as— together and there are as many tactics as there _ together and there are as many tactics as there are— together and there are as many tactics as there are groups or ineiwieaais. — tactics as there are groups or individuals. we're all very

enienenb.— individuals. we're all very different. but— individuals. we're all very different. but you talked about i different. but you talked about i bnink— different. but you talked about i bnink ib-s— different. but you talked about i think it's emma— different. but you talked about i think it's emma davidson who ran i think it's emma davidson who enbe— i think it's emma davidson who enbe iesen— i think it's emma davidson who ran onto epsom 100 years ago, ane— ran onto epsom 100 years ago, and bney-ie— ran onto epsom 100 years ago, and they're giving— ran onto epsom 100 years ago, and they're giving her a blue eiagae— and they're giving her a blue eiagae new— and they're giving her a blue plaque now because as well, bney-ie— plaque now because as well, they're honouring her in this way.— they're honouring her in this way. sne— they're honouring her in this way. sne was— they're honouring her in this way. she was fighting as a sainagebbe— way. she was fighting as a suffragette who wanted women's nignbs. — suffragette who wanted women's nignbs. sne — suffragette who wanted women's nignbs. sne was— suffragette who wanted women's rights. she was derived did sesieby— rights. she was derived did society, didn't— rights. she was derived did society, didn't want it, but she wanbee— society, didn't want it, but she wanbee ge— society, didn't want it, but she wanted go into— society, didn't want it, but she wanted go into she wanted a we — wanted go into she wanted a we sns— wanted go into she wanted a vote. she and— wanted go into she wanted a vote. she and she- wanted go into she wanted a vote. e“i: i: wanted go into she wanted a vote. e2 2 “g vote. she and she said voting matters. and you guys, i feel or many of your groups say to hell, we're voting. we just want to impose our will on you. it's very different to the suffragettes now. you you have anebnei— suffragettes now. you you have anebnen gneae— suffragettes now. you you have another group that— g ni2ibai you you have another group that wants to ineese— another group that wants to ineese bnein— another group that wants to impose their will on us, which is be— impose their will on us, which is be say.— impose their will on us, which is be say. snab— impose their will on us, which is to say, shut up,— impose their will on us, which is to say, shut up, go away. �*vnbn2; is to say, shut up, go away. we een-b— is to say, shut up, go away. we een-b wanb— is to say, shut up, go away. we een-b wanb be— is to say, shut up, go away. we don't want to hear— is to say, shut up, go away. we don't want to hear it. - is to say, shut up, go away. we don't want to hear it. we love our dirty old habits and we don't want to change. but we're in negotiations with so many corporations. we are talking to people and saying , it's corporations. we are talking to people and saying, it's your choice, but we wish to show you cruelty that will appal you. now that's a democratic way of going about things. we do demonstrate because there's free speech. you

know, we should be out there saying, i don't mind you demonstrating. idon't saying, i don't mind you demonstrating. i don't mind bnab— demonstrating. i don't mind bnab. i— demonstrating. i don't mind bnab. iiasb— demonstrating. i don't mind that. i just don't— demonstrating. i don't mind that. i just don't want- 2 “g i don't mind that. i just don't want people waiking— that. i just don't want people waiking bewn— that. i just don't want people walking down the roads and tying bnensebes— walking down the roads and tying themselves to— walking down the roads and tying themselves to different organisations. i know it is. i knew— organisations. i know it is. i knew ib— organisations. i know it is. i knew ib is.— organisations. i know it is. i knew ib is. i— organisations. i know it is. i know it is. i know it is. and it may— know it is. i know it is. and it may be— know it is. i know it is. and it may be aniaii— know it is. i know it is. and it may be unfair to— know it is. i know it is. and it may be unfair to lump you know it is. i know it is. and it may be unfairto lump you in may be unfair to lump you in win— may be unfair to lump you in wibn abi— may be unfair to lump you in wibn aii ei— may be unfair to lump you in with all of them,— may be unfair to lump you in with all of them, but they neaiiy— with all of them, but they neaiiy ee — with all of them, but they really do annoy me. ingrid look, i really do annoy me. ingrid look, i see— really do annoy me. ingrid look, i bne— really do annoy me. ingrid look, i see the sincerity— really do annoy me. ingrid look, i see the sincerity of who you are-wnab— i see the sincerity of who you are-wnab yea— i see the sincerity of who you are-what you are,- i see the sincerity of who you are what you are, and i have are and what you are, and i have to are and what you are, and i have be say.— are and what you are, and i have be say. i— are and what you are, and i have be say. i beani— are and what you are, and i have to say, i found this.— are and what you are, and i have to say, i found this. this conversation _ to say, i found this. this conversation with peter a lot more pleasant— conversation with peter a lot more pleasant and a lot more gnewn— more pleasant and a lot more gnewn ae— more pleasant and a lot more gnewn ae inan— more pleasant and a lot more grown up than i've had with ebnei— grown up than i've had with other organisations in recent bines— other organisations in recent bines. i— other organisations in recent bines. i wanb— other organisations in recent times. i want to— other organisations in recent times. i want to say thank you for times. i want to say thank you ien sening— times. i want to say thank you ien sening en— times. i want to say thank you for coming on program. for coming on the program. inank— for coming on the program. inank yea— for coming on the program. inank yea very— for coming on the program. thank you very much.- for coming on the program. thank you very much. and here's the kindness. thank you. of course, now jacob rees—mogg is going be up jacob what going to be up next. jacob what have you got for this have you got for us this evening? i'm going to be evening? well, i'm going to be baiking— evening? well, i'm going to be baiking-bnis— “g7’ well, i'm going to be talking this extraordinary talking about this extraordinary weeen— talking about this extraordinary weeen-baby— talking about this extraordinary report daily telegraph report in the daily telegraph bnab— report in the daily telegraph that-actually- that lockdown actually was ineffective. _ that lockdown actually was- ineffective._through ineffective. so we went through all ineffective. so we went through aii-eain— ineffective. so we went through aii-eain aki— ineffective. so we went through all-pain, all the- ineffective. so we went through all pain, all the mental all that pain, all the mental angaisb— all that pain, all the mental. anguish._schools anguish. we closed the schools ane— anguish. we closed the schools and saved— anguish. we closed the schools and saved remarkably few lives . and saved remarkably few lives. kne— and saved remarkably few lives. and be— and saved remarkably few lives. and to discuss— and saved remarkably few lives. and to discuss that and what the bean— and to discuss that and what the ingainy is— and to discuss that and what the ingainy is gang,— and to discuss that and what the inquiry is doing, because i'm weniee— inquiry is doing, because i'm worried that— inquiry is doing, because i'm worried that the— inquiry is doing, because i'm worried that the inquiry from

the worried that the inquiry from be be— worried that the inquiry from the 150 questions it asked boris iennsen— the 150 questions it asked boris iennsen is— the 150 questions it asked boris johnson is focusing on whether the lockdown _ johnson is focusing on whether the lockdown should have been beagnei— the lockdown should have been beagnei bnan— the lockdown should have been tougher than the _ the lockdown should have been tougher than the evidence now be— tougher than the evidence now be be— tougher than the evidence now seems to be the— tougher than the evidence now seems to be the reverse. well, i bnink— seems to be the reverse. well, i bnink yea— seems to be the reverse. well, i bnink yea abi— seems to be the reverse. well, i think you all owe— seems to be the reverse. well, i think you all owe us an apology, jacob-— think you all owe us an apology, iaseb. — think you all owe us an apology, iaseb. kea— think you all owe us an apology, jacob. you too,— think you all owe us an apology, jacob. 42. 2 jacob. you too, because you were part of that government. i was part of that government. i was part that part of that government. i was part-that government.- g i was part that government. and part of that government. and i was-by— part of that government. and i was-by collective- was bound by collective responsibility. that's absolutely- responsibility. that's absolutely and you absolutely true. yeah. and you knew— absolutely true. yeah. and you knew new— absolutely true. yeah. and you know how the _ absolutely true. yeah. and you know how the system works. yeah abseiabeiy. —be| absolutely. we look forward to that. in a moment, the that. now in a moment, the weather, of the prime weather, of course, the prime minister being an expert minister not being an expert on the weather. rishi, promise the weather. rishi, i promise you will tell us you the weather will tell us it'll windy in channel it'll be windy in the channel again tomorrow. hello again. it's aidan mcgivern from it's aidan mcgivern here from the news the met office with the gb news forecast. cloud the met office with the gb news forecast . cloud becomes forecast. cloud becomes wieeseneae— forecast. cloud becomes widespread once- 2 cloud becomes widespread once again. owennignb.— widespread once again. overnight, clearer skies will in— overnight, clearer skies will remain in the— overnight, clearer skies will remain in the west and then that win— remain in the west and then that wiii beaa— remain in the west and then that wiii ieae be— remain in the west and then that will lead to sunny— remain in the west and then that will lead to sunny spells again in besening— will lead to sunny spells again in becoming widespread during the in becoming widespread during bne eay— in becoming widespread during be gay en— in becoming widespread during the day on tuesday. but high pressure remains— the day on tuesday. but high pressure remains in control of weabnei— pressure remains in control of weabnei .— pressure remains in control of our weather . that's why it's our weather. that's why it's sebbiee— our weather. that's why it's sebbiee in. — our weather. that's why it's settled in. it's— our weather. that's why it's settled in. it's mostly dry, but bnene— settled in. it's mostly dry, but bnene is— settled in. it's mostly dry, but bnene is a— settled in. it's mostly dry, but there is a thickening of the low sieae— there is a thickening of the low sieae bneagn— there is a thickening of the low cloud through the— there is a thickening of the low cloud through the evening and eweinignb.— cloud through the evening and overnight, we'll— cloud through the evening and overnight, we'll see that cloud sneee— overnight, we'll see that cloud creep westwards.— overnight, we'll see that cloud creep westwards. so it'll be bnisk— creep westwards. so it'll be thick enough— creep westwards. so it'll be thick enough in— creep westwards. so it'll be thick enough in 1 or 2 spots to

give— thick enough in 1 or 2 spots to give see— thick enough in 1 or 2 spots to give some drizzle,— thick enough in 1 or 2 spots to give some drizzle, most likely basb— give some drizzle, most likely east midlands— give some drizzle, most likely east midlands parts of the east sease— east midlands parts of the east seasb. bab— east midlands parts of the east coast, but otherwise it's a dry ane— coast, but otherwise it's a dry and sebbiee— coast, but otherwise it's a dry and settled night— coast, but otherwise it's a dry and settled night for many , and settled night for many, aibeib— and settled night for many, albeit increasingly cloudy, sieaiesb— albeit increasingly cloudy, clearest spells— albeit increasingly cloudy, clearest spells towards western bennaes— clearest spells towards western areas. perhaps the odd mist eabsn— areas. perhaps the odd mist eabsn ien— areas. perhaps the odd mist patch for northern ireland as we wake— patch for northern ireland as we wake ae— patch for northern ireland as we wake ae en— patch for northern ireland as we wake up on tuesday. but that bney— wake up on tuesday. but that bney wiii— wake up on tuesday. but that they will quickly— wake up on tuesday. but that they will quickly disappear and ben— they will quickly disappear and bnen bne— they will quickly disappear and then the sunny— they will quickly disappear and then the sunny skies in the west wiii— then the sunny skies in the west wiii nibbie— then the sunny skies in the west will nibble away— then the sunny skies in the west will nibble away at— then the sunny skies in the west will nibble away at the fringes of will nibble away at the fringes ei bne— will nibble away at the fringes ei bne sieae— will nibble away at the fringes of the cloud and— will nibble away at the fringes of the cloud and so that cloud wiii— of the cloud and so that cloud will progressively— of the cloud and so that cloud will progressively be back bewanis— will progressively be back towards the _ will progressively be back towards the north sea coast. i bnink— towards the north sea coast. i bnink ib— towards the north sea coast. i bnink ib wiii— towards the north sea coast. i think it will remain across eans— think it will remain across eans ei— think it will remain across parts of central- think it will remain across parts of central and eastern ssebiane.— parts of central and eastern scotland, yorkshire, lincolnshire, norfolk here, temperatures— lincolnshire, norfolk here, temperatures 12, 13 celsius at besb. — temperatures 12, 13 celsius at besb. bab— temperatures 12, 13 celsius at best. but where _ temperatures 12, 13 celsius at best. but where we've got the warm, sunny spells further west wakes— warm, sunny spells further west waies ane— warm, sunny spells further west waies ane bne— warm, sunny spells further west wales and the south—west 22 seisias— wales and the south—west 22 celsius likely— wales and the south—west 22 celsius likely tuesday evening. inen— celsius likely tuesday evening. inen bne— celsius likely tuesday evening. then the cloud— celsius likely tuesday evening. then the cloud returns and it easnes— then the cloud returns and it pushes westwards through the evening— pushes westwards through the evening ane— pushes westwards through the evening and overnight again, sieaiesb— evening and overnight again, clearest skies— evening and overnight again, clearest skies remaining towards wennein— clearest skies remaining towards northern ireland,— clearest skies remaining towards northern ireland, western ssebiane.— northern ireland, western scotland, northwest england , scotland, northwest england, wesb— scotland, northwest england, wesbwaies— scotland, northwest england, west wales, cornwall, for ekaneie— west wales, cornwall, for ekaneie .— west wales, cornwall, for example , and- west wales, cornwall, for example , and temperatures example, and temperatures dipping— example, and temperatures eieeing inbe— example, and temperatures dipping into the single figures in eiases—

dipping into the single figures in eiases .— dipping into the single figures in eiases . k— dipping into the single figures in places . a cool— dipping into the single figures in places . a cool start. then on in places. a cool start. then on weeneseay— in places. a cool start. then on wednesday and— in places. a cool start. then on wednesday and once more, a iangeiy— wednesday and once more, a iangeiy sieaey— wednesday and once more, a largely cloudy start for many bnab— largely cloudy start for many bnab iew— largely cloudy start for many that low cloud— largely cloudy start for many that low cloud will take its bime— that low cloud will take its time through— that low cloud will take its time through the morning, but it will eventually— time through the morning, but it will eventually push back bewanis— will eventually push back towards the _ will eventually push back towards the east and although it aniaii— towards the east and although it seems unfair to— towards the east and although it seems unfair to have the same neeeabing— seems unfair to have the same repeating weather— seems unfair to have the same repeating weather pattern if yae— repeating weather pattern if ye in— repeating weather pattern if ye in bne— repeating weather pattern if you're in the east, i'm afraid geb— you're in the east, i'm afraid geb a— you're in the east, i'm afraid we've got a few— you're in the east, i'm afraid we've got a few more days of it . k— we've got a few more days of it . a keb— we've got a few more days of it . a ieb ei— we've got a few more days of it . a ieb ei iew— we've got a few more days of it . a lot of low cloud— we've got a few more days of it . a lot of low cloud remaining neae— . a lot of low cloud remaining neae ane— . a lot of low cloud remaining here and suppressed temperatures, humidity rises on inaiseay— temperatures, humidity rises on inaiseay ane— temperatures, humidity rises on thursday and friday, higher temperatures,— thursday and friday, higher temperatures, but a risk of sewebs— temperatures, but a risk of showers as well- temperatures, but a risk of showers as well .

hello. good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nafion jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation tonight, an explosive report in the daily telegraph citing a new study challenging the efficacy of covid 19

lockdowns.