countries . other countries. i think everybody wants to make sure that we stop the boats. we don't want people making that dangerous journey all we've really had from the government though, is the announcement of a policy that doesn't work. then the re announcement of the same policy essentially and it often feels, i think, like groundhog day. meanwhile that's day. and meanwhile that's costing a fortune for the taxpayer and there's this growing sense of frustration. i mean, i'm at hinkley point c here today. fantastic project. it's behind schedule. and there's a frustration here. keir starmer now, the metropolitan police says conservative— metropolitan police says conservative mp bob stewart has been— conservative mp bob stewart has been charged— conservative mp bob stewart has been charged with— conservative mp bob stewart has been charged with two public order— been charged with two public order offences— been charged with two public order offences ,_ been charged with two public order offences , is alleged to order offences, is alleged to have— order offences, is alleged to have happened— order offences, is alleged to have happened in december last year.— have happened in december last year. scon— have happened in december last year. scott yard _ have happened in december last year. scott yard says the 73 year— year. scott yard says the 73 year old — year. scott yard says the 73 year old hee— year. scott yard says the 73 year old has been charged with a racially— year old has been charged with a racially aggravated— year old has been charged with a racially aggravated offence after— racially aggravated offence after an— racially aggravated offence after an incident in central london.— after an incident in central london. nee— after an incident in central london. the force has said he's going— london. the force has said he's going to— london. the force has said he's going to appear— london. the force has said he's gerng re appear ar— london. the force has said he's going to appear at westminster rragrerraree— going to appear at westminster magistrates court— going to appear at westminster magistrates court in july. the rerergn— magistrates court in july. the foreign secretary has held talks

wran— foreign secretary has held talks with president— foreign secretary has held talks with president zelenskyy in ukraine-e— with president zelenskyy in ukraine's capital, kyiv. ukraine-e— ukraine's capital, kyiv. ukraine's president has thanked the ukraine's president has thanked rne un— ukraine's president has thanked rne an for— ukraine's president has thanked rne an for re— ukraine's president has thanked the uk for its continued support anra— the uk for its continued support and ne— the uk for its continued support amid the country's— amid the country's counter—offensive to the amid the country's— counter—offensive to the russian .— counter—offensive to the russian . ae— counter—offensive to the russian invasion . as the— counter—offensive to the russian invasion . as the pair discussed invasion. as the pair discussed ukraine-e— invasion. as the pair discussed ukraine's possible membership to maro— ukraine's possible membership to were are— ukraine's possible membership to nato after rishi _ ukraine's possible membership to nato after rishi sunak supported the nato after rishi sunak supported rne eaanrry— nato after rishi sunak supported the country joining the organisation- the country joining the organisation last week . and organisation last week. and holly— organisation last week. and holly willoughby has returned to the holly willoughby has returned to rne aarrrne— holly willoughby has returned to rne daytime rv— holly willoughby has returned to the daytime tv show this morning for the daytime tv show this morning rer ane— the daytime tv show this morning for rne ner— the daytime tv show this morning for the first time— the daytime tv show this morning for the first time following co—presenter_ for the first time following co—presenter phillip schofield's exit co—presenter phillip schofield's enr opening— co—presenter phillip schofield's exit opening the— co—presenter phillip schofield's exit opening the show today arengerae— exit opening the show today alongside new— exit opening the show today alongside new this morning presenrer— alongside new this morning presenter josie— alongside new this morning presenterjosie gibson. ms wrrreagnny— presenterjosie gibson. ms willoughby said she felt shaken, neutered— willoughby said she felt shaken, rraanrea ana— willoughby said she felt shaken, troubled and let— willoughby said she felt shaken, troubled and let down by senenera— troubled and let down by schofield after he admitted to an anar— schofield after he admitted to an affair with— schofield after he admitted to an affair with a— schofield after he admitted to an affair with a much younger nae— an affair with a much younger nare narr— an affair with a much younger male work colleague . happy news male work colleague. happy news to male work colleague. happy news re ena— male work colleague. happy news re ena wran— male work colleague. happy news to end with princess— male work colleague. happy news to end with princess eugenie has announced the— to end with princess eugenie has announced the birth of her second— announced the birth of her second child.— announced the birth of her second child. it's a boy named rrneer— second child. it's a boy named rrneer george— second child. it's a boy named ernest george ,_ second child. it's a boy named ernest george , ronnie ernest george, ronnie brooksbank.- ernest george, ronnie brooksbank. she posted a gnaregrapn— brooksbank. she posted a photograph on her instagram aeeeanr— photograph on her instagram account earlier— photograph on her instagram account earlier today saying he nann— account earlier today saying he was born on the— account earlier today saying he was born on the 30th of may. rnneeee— was born on the 30th of may. princess eugenie— was born on the 30th of may. princess eugenie says son august is arreaay—

princess eugenie says son august is already loving— princess eugenie says son august is already loving being a big nrerner— is already loving being a big arerner en— is already loving being a big brother on tv— is already loving being a big brother on tv ,_ is already loving being a big brother on tv , online, dab+ brother on tv, online, dab+ raare— brother on tv, online, dab+ raare ana— brother on tv, online, dab+ radio and the— brother on tv, online, dab+ radio and the tune in app. this is en— radio and the tune in app. this is en newe— radio and the tune in app. this is gb news, britain's news. channel se- channel so say rishi channel- so say rishi sunak cnanner— so say rishi sunak goes to dover . ana— so say rishi sunak goes to dover . and remember,— so say rishi sunak goes to dover . and remember, this- so say rishi sunak goes to dover . and remember, this is- so say rishi sunak goes to dover . and remember, this is the man who's made some big key pledges. this is the man who says you can trust me and he wants to restore faith in politics. have a listen to this . now, some said this to this. now, some said this grenren— to this. now, some said this grenren nae— now, some said this problem was insoluble or just a faer— problem was insoluble or just a fan or— problem was insoluble or just a fan or zer— problem was insoluble or just a fact of 21st century— problem was insoluble or just a fact of 21st century life. they rear— fact of 21st century life. they we ran— fact of 21st century life. they lost faith in— fact of 21st century life. they lost faith in politicians who put— lost faith in politicians who per in— lost faith in politicians who per in ne— lost faith in politicians who put in the hard— lost faith in politicians who put in the hard yards to do eenernrng— put in the hard yards to do something about it. put in the hard yards to do something about it . and of something about it. and of course, we still— something about it. and of course, we still have a long way to course, we still have a long way re ge— course, we still have a long way re ge .— course, we still have a long way re ge . nar— course, we still have a long way no go . err in— course, we still have a long way to go . but in the— course, we still have a long way to go . but in the five months to go. but in the five months since— to go. but in the five months r— to go. but in the five months since i launched— to go. but in the five months since i launched the plan, eneerneg— since i launched the plan, crossings are— since i launched the plan, crossings are now . down 20% crossings are now. down 20% compared— crossings are now. down 20% compared re— crossings are now. down 20% compared to last— crossings are now. down 20% compared to last year. crossings are now. down 20% compared to last year . so there

compared to last year. so there you— compared to last year. so there you — compared to last year. so there you vea— compared to last year. so there you are. you can— compared to last year. so there you are. you can trust- compared to last year. so there you are. /r:::r. cr?" compared to last year. so there you are. /r:::r. 't?“ /r:::r. you are. you can trust me. you know, i'm a man of my word. crossings are down 20. well, i suppose on the face of it, you might think it sounds slightly impressive . and there's one impressive. and there's one claim that he can actually make, which is the number of albanians coming has reduced because, yes, 1800 have been deported back to albania after all, none of them should ever have been able to claim asylum in this country. but what he boasts about the number of albanians being down, let me tell you what he will not talk about. that is the fact that 12,800 albanians who came in small boats last year awaiting their so—called asylum claims have now skipped their bail terms. they've disappeared out of the hotels, the hostels , out of the hotels, the hostels, the private houses, and they're now out there in this country. and guess what.7 they're doing? they've and guess what? they're doing? they've joined the criminal community. you didn't hear that from rishi sunak today. community. you didn't hear that from rishi sunak today . and he from rishi sunak today. and he even tried to say that we are

doing better than the rest of europe in dealing with this problem . crossings elsewhere in problem. crossings elsewhere in range— problem. crossings elsewhere in range are— problem. crossings elsewhere in range an— problem. crossings elsewhere in europe are up are— problem. crossings elsewhere in europe are up are up— crossings elsewhere in europe are up are up by almost a anna— europe are up are up by almost a rnrra ever— europe are up are up by almost a rnrra ane— europe are up are up by almost a third over the similar time genea— third over the similar time genera .— third over the similar time genera . ana— third over the similar time period . and yet crossings into period. and yet crossings into the period. and yet crossings into rne un— period. and yet crossings into rne uk are— period. and yet crossings into the uk are down— period. and yet crossings into the uk are down by a fifth. i rnrnk— the uk are down by a fifth. i rnrnk anar— the uk are down by a fifth. i think that should tell us eanernrng— think that should tell us something that something is going— something that something is gerng en— something that something is gerng an nee— something that something is going on here and that's the resen— going on here and that's the reearr, r— going on here and that's the result, i think— going on here and that's the result, i think of— going on here and that's the result, i think of the actions anar— result, i think of the actions rnar wee— result, i think of the actions that we've put— result, i think of the actions that we've put place and that we've put in place and rnere-e— that we've put in place and there'slrange_ that we've put in place and there'slrange of- that we've put in place and there's range of different there's a range of different aerrene— there's a range of different- aerrene—nraee actions that we've put in place anar— actions that we've put in place war—re- actions that we've put in place rnar—re rnar. l actions that we've put in place rnar—re rnar. | that are contributing to that. us that are contributing to that. us new — that are contributing to that. us rishi sunak— that are contributing to that. us rishi sunak what- that are contributing to that. us rishi sunak what it- that are contributing to that. us rishi sunak what it tells you is that is the mediterranean and this is the english channel. and for the last three a half for the last three and a half weeks, single day we have weeks, every single day we have had north easterly airflow had a north easterly airflow coming through straits of coming through the straits of doven coming through the straits of dover. in fact, i've never known a northeasterly wind at this time of the year to last for this long. there have only been a couple of days in the last three and a half weeks on which any boats at all would cross. so to compare us with the mediterranean is crazy. and frankly , we, as you say , numbers frankly, we, as you say, numbers crossing the mediterranean have

risen sharply. that should worry you even more because guess what? the number one destination for many of those people is going to be. it's going to be right here. and i wonder about the timing of this visit to dover after all, nobody knew about it until the last minute. normally, a pm going to dover to talk about this would have been trailed to all the media outlets. last week . no, this was outlets. last week. no, this was a very last minute thing. let me tell you why. because from sunday, the weather changes completely. it's the end of the big anticyclone in the north sea . it's the end of the strong north easterly breezes. if the forecast is anything like right from this sunday, we will have 8 to 10 days of absolutely perfectly calm weather here. we know there are many, many thousands , possibly even tens of thousands, possibly even tens of thousands, possibly even tens of thousands from dunkirk. right. the way down west of le touquet

to berck, waiting to cross . we to berck, waiting to cross. we also have good intel that up to also have good intel that up to a month ago they were struggling for engines or the engines they were getting from china were substandard. we're told that problem has been solved. so rishi sunak, who is the biggest spinner we've had as a prime minister since tony blair, cynically and deliberately chose today to go to dover to tell you the numbers are down 20. and what we do know is whilst the albania may not be coming in the same numbers, there are now young men from all over the indian subcontinent. young men from all over the indian subcontinent . again, indian subcontinent. again, people i would have thought with no from india in no right from india in particular to claim asylum. and yet they are the ones that are now making up many of the numbers. so i'm asking you, is rishi right? give me your view. farage at gb news .com. i think, frankly , this is pure cynical frankly, this is pure cynical politics from a prime minister who may be good at spin, but frankly i don't think is going to deliver very much on this at

all. joining me is tony smith , all. joining me is tony smith, former director general of the uk border force, who is now managing director of fatima's global . tony down 20. it's global. tony down 20. it's a huge win. that's what he says . huge win. that's what he says. well, i'm not quite as pessimistic- well, i'm not quite as pessimistic as you are, nigel, aneur— pessimistic as you are, nigel, anew ane— pessimistic as you are, nigel, about this. you— pessimistic as you are, nigel, about this. you know far more aneur— about this. you know far more anew ane— about this. you know far more about the weather than i do. raw-we— about the weather than i do. raw-we ger— about the weather than i do. raw-we gar a— about the weather than i do. you've got a sailing boat out were,— you've got a sailing boat out were ana— you've got a sailing boat out there, and you're— you've got a sailing boat out there, and you're out there regwrarw— there, and you're out there regwrarw .— there, and you're out there regularly , but— there, and you're out there regularly , but be thankful for regularly, but be thankful for eman— regularly, but be thankful for small mercies. _ regularly, but be thankful for small mercies. \r gr; �*vw�*rz; regularly, but be thankful for small mercies. \r gr; var; wrrrzzflz; small mercies. nigel. we were anticipating potentially double, if not treble last year's figure, weren't we? and actually , if we're 20% down up until now, till the end of may, that's pretty good. and he is right. external eu border 30% up and you know the central med route quadrupled in the first three months. so that's an awful lot of people getting into the schengen zone. yes. but they're not all getting across the engush not all getting across the english channel and arriving here. irarely english channel and arriving here. i rarely i disagree with you,— here. i rarely i disagree with wen nar— here. i rarely i disagree with wew bar r— here. i rarely i disagree with you, but i think— here. i rarely i disagree with you, but i think to-

“rt;”rt; i rarely i disagree with you, but i think to say “”rrt;t; i rarely i disagree with you, but i think to say the nwrnerne— you, but i think to say the numbers are— you, but i think to say the numbers are 3—3 and a half times nrgner— numbers are 3—3 and a half times nrgner rer— numbers are 3—3 and a half times higher for crossing— numbers are 3—3 and a half times higher for crossing the med, but it's higher for crossing the med, but we ner— higher for crossing the med, but it's not happening. here is a gear— it's not happening. here is a gear rnrng.— it's not happening. here is a gear rnrng. r— it's not happening. here is a good thing. i think this is a rear-e— good thing. i think this is a fool's argument. what it means is ane— fool's argument. what it means is the numbers— fool's argument. what it means is the numbers coming into range— is the numbers coming into europe are— is the numbers coming into europe are going through the rear— europe are going through the rear ana— europe are going through the roof and many— europe are going through the roof and many of them will be neaaea— roof and many of them will be reader for— roof and many of them will be headed for this— roof and many of them will be headed for this country. so, no, i headed for this country. so, no, r-agree— headed for this country. so, no, r-agree wran— headed for this country. so, no, i-agree with you- headed for this country. so, no, i agree with you all on i don't agree with you at all on anar— i don't agree with you at all on rnar. ana— i don't agree with you at all on rnar. ana r— i don't agree with you at all on that. and i promise you it was-na— that. and i promise you it wae-nr wer— that. and i promise you it wasn't just may in which the wearner— wasn't just may in which the wearner wae— wasn't just may in which the weather was bad. it was march for weather was bad. it was march fer-ane— weather was bad. it was march for-the whole- weather was bad. it was march for-the whole of- weather was bad. it was march for the whole of the for almost the whole of the nenrn. — for almost the whole of the month. barely— for almost the whole of the month. barely a— for almost the whole of the month. barely a boat came . so, month. barely a boat came. so, reek.— month. barely a boat came. so, reek. wea— month. barely a boat came. so, reek. you knew.— month. barely a boat came. so, look, you know, whether it's rome— look, you know, whether it's 40,000, 50,000,— look, you know, whether it's 40,000, 50,000, 80,000, i've no idea— 40,000, 50,000, 80,000, i've no idea .— 40,000, 50,000, 80,000, i've no idea . raw-we— 40,000, 50,000, 80,000, i've no idea . you've no— 40,000, 50,000, 80,000, i've no idea . you've no idea.— 40,000, 50,000, 80,000, i've no idea . you've no idea. we were idea. you've no idea. we were eageerrng— idea. you've no idea. we were expeenng a— idea. you've no idea. we were expeenng a very— idea. you've no idea. we were expecting a very big number, but , i expecting a very big number, but . r nean— expecting a very big number, but , i mean, come back. come back in a— , i mean, come back. come back in a rannrgnr— , i mean, come back. come back in a fortnight after— , i mean, come back. come back in a fortnight after this calm wearner— in a fortnight after this calm weather and— in a fortnight after this calm weather and that's why i think he weather and that's why i think ne eneee— weather and that's why i think ne eneee re— weather and that's why i think ne eneee re ge— weather and that's why i think he chose to go today. i think i rnrnw— he chose to go today. i think i rnrnw anew— he chose to go today. i think i think they know— he chose to go today. i think i think they know the calmer wearner— think they know the calmer wearner re— think they know the calmer weather is coming with the arranrane— weather is coming with the arranrane .— weather is coming with the albanians . we— weather is coming with the albanians . we have made some albanians. we have made some pregreee— albanians. we have made some pregneee ana— albanians. we have made some progress and fair— albanians. we have made some progress and fair is fair. so now— progress and fair is fair. so new nae— progress and fair is fair. so new nae ne— progress and fair is fair. so how has he been allowed to degen— how has he been allowed to aegen neopre— how has he been allowed to deport people back to albania? so deport people back to albania? so anew-we— deport people back to albania? so they've been— deport people back to albania? so they've been working on arranra— so they've been working on albania for— so they've been working on albania for a— so they've been working on albania for a long time. rnere-e— albania for a long time. there's been— albania for a long time. there's been a- albania for a long time. there's been a task- albania for a long time. there's been a task force in

albania, nigel, which has involved us having people, border officers over there border force officers over there helping them really train helping them really to train them, capacity there and them, build capacity there and actually experience . and actually know my experience. and i've worked with lots of different agencies. different border agencies. i used us frontex used to represent us at frontex when in the eu and when we were in the eu and actually there is a common purpose border . purpose amongst border. operationally, nobody really likes people smugglers or international organisations. they don't all have the capacity. i think there has capacity. so i think there has been some real outreach to albania to help them to work and build better borders , better build better borders, better systems themselves. good collaboration on and the key which i've said to you before to all of this is returns . we have all of this is returns. we have to start returning people because up until recently we weren't removing anybody who was coming by small boat we have now. right. so only 1800. now. all right. so only 1800. and you say, well, there's and you can say, well, there's thousands haven't gone thousands that haven't gone 12,000. there's12,800 have 12,000. there's 12,800 have skipped— 12,000. there's 12,800 have skipped-and— 12,000. there's 12,800 have skipped - and are - 12,000. there's 12,800 have skipped-and are on- 7 000 there's 12,800 have skipped and are on the run. skipped bail and are on the run. need.— skipped bail and are on the run. rnaeea niger.— skipped bail and are on the run. indeed, nigel. but— skipped bail and are on the run. indeed, nigel. but we— skipped bail and are on the run. indeed, nigel. but we never- indeed, nigel. but we never we've never been able to remove all the illegal immigrants. in my experience, that's my 40 years experience, that's never it about never happened. it is about being to get removals going being able to get removals going and get that message out there

to people who want to come, who are thinking about it, or on tiktok looking up the possibilities paying ,5,000 possibilities of paying ,5,000 to get in a boat from calais to dover to find yourself back in tirana. why up the odds? is it better off actually trying somewhere else in the eu to stay there they're really there? what? they're really betting boots on? of betting their boots on? of course, government course, this government is rwanda . that's trigger rwanda. that's the real trigger for me, because as you know, that case is still in the court of appeal. it's been in the courts for a very long time now. if the home office ever get the authorities and the border force ever get the legal authorities they need to put people on flights to rwanda, i think that's huge for them. yeah it's been 14 months now since the rwanda announcement. £140 million has been spent- million has been spent and not a erngre— million has been spent and not a erngre pee— million has been spent and not a single person has— million has been spent and not a single person has gone. and we do single person has gone. and we are fine— single person has gone. and we do find ourselves— single person has gone. and we do find ourselves don't we, tied up do find ourselves don't we, tied an ar— do find ourselves don't we, tied an ar ane— do find ourselves don't we, tied up or the government finds ween.— up or the government finds ween. een— up or the government finds itself, even if— up or the government finds itself, even if it— up or the government finds itself, even if it really does wanr— itself, even if it really does wanr ra— itself, even if it really does want to deal— itself, even if it really does want to deal with this problem. but want to deal with this problem. nwrlnnae— want to deal with this problem. butlfinds-tied- want to deal with this problem. butlfinds-tied up- want to deal with this problem. but finds tied up in but it finds itself tied up in regar— but it finds itself tied up in legal difficulties and of course . era— legal difficulties and of course , our old friend,— legal difficulties and of course , our old friend, the european cann— , our old friend, the european earn an— , our old friend, the european court of human— , our old friend, the european court of human rights in

srraenewrg.— court of human rights in strasbourg, ultimately strasbourg, they ultimately grayed— strasbourg, they ultimately grayed ane— strasbourg, they ultimately played the decisive role in ereggrng— played the decisive role in stopping that_ played the decisive role in stopping that plane going stopping that plane from going to stopping that plane from going re rewanaa. — stopping that plane from going to rwanda. and— stopping that plane from going to rwanda. and it's interesting rvou— to rwanda. and it's interesting we knew.— to rwanda. and it's interesting , you know, chalk, who's come in ana— , you know, chalk, who's come in and re— , you know, chalk, who's come in and re nearing— , you know, chalk, who's come in and is dealing with— , you know, chalk, who's come in and is dealing with law within the and is dealing with law within rne earner.— and is dealing with law within the cabinet, has— and is dealing with law within the cabinet, has made it clear we wru— the cabinet, has made it clear we wru ner— the cabinet, has made it clear we will not be— the cabinet, has made it clear we will not be leaving the echr. so we will not be leaving the echr. so r— we will not be leaving the echr. so r een-r— we will not be leaving the echr. so i don't know— we will not be leaving the echr. so i don't know where we go with all so i don't know where we go with an ar— so i don't know where we go with an of ne— so i don't know where we go with all of this, but— so i don't know where we go with all of this, but i— so i don't know where we go with all of this, but i suspect i eweneer— all of this, but i suspect i ewegeer ra— all of this, but i suspect i suspect i'd be— all of this, but i suspect i suspect i'd be very surprised if a erngre— suspect i'd be very surprised if a erngre gee— suspect i'd be very surprised if a single person goes to rwanda rnre— a single person goes to rwanda rnre wear.— a single person goes to rwanda rnre wear. iner— a single person goes to rwanda this year, just given how long all this year, just given how long an we— this year, just given how long all this takes. _ this year, just given how long all this takes. now, suella braverman today has made a erarenenr— braverman today has made a statement in— braverman today has made a statement in the— braverman today has made a statement in the commons. she earn— statement in the commons. she eara ane— statement in the commons. she said the asylum _ statement in the commons. she said the asylum initial decision naeweg— said the asylum initial decision naeweg re— said the asylum initial decision backlog is down— said the asylum initial decision backlog is down by 17,000 and we're on track— backlog is down by 17,000 and we're on track to— backlog is down by 17,000 and we're on track to abolish all regaew— we're on track to abolish all regaew eaeee— we're on track to abolish all regaew by— we're on track to abolish all legacy cases by the end of this year.— legacy cases by the end of this year. nawng— legacy cases by the end of this year, having doubled the number of year, having doubled the number or aewwn— year, having doubled the number of asylum decision— year, having doubled the number of asylum decision makers over the of asylum decision makers over we raer— of asylum decision makers over we raer awe— of asylum decision makers over the last two years. _ of asylum decision makers over the last two years. now, there a repen— the last two years. now, there was a report out— the last two years. now, there was a report out a— the last two years. now, there was a report out a few months back— was a report out a few months back eawrng— was a report out a few months back saying that— was a report out a few months back saying that some caseworkers- back saying that some caseworkers were only dealing wrrn— caseworkers were only dealing wrrn ne— caseworkers were only dealing with one asylum— caseworkers were only dealing with one asylum case a week . so with one asylum case a week. so nwen— with one asylum case a week. so nwen warn— with one asylum case a week. so much more work from home is what i much more work from home is what r rnewgnr— much more work from home is what r rnewgnr .— much more work from home is what r rnewgnr . nar— much more work from home is what rrnewgnr . ear re— much more work from home is what i thought . but is she— much more work from home is what i thought . but is she right i thought. but is she right aneur— i thought. but is she right about this?— i thought. but is she right about this? are- i thought. but is she right about this? are we actually negrnnrng— about this? are we actually negrnnrng re— about this? are we actually beginning to deal with the barrage— beginning to deal with the backlog? well—

beginning to deal with the backlog? well there's a lot of work— backlog? well there's a lot of work gang— backlog? well there's a lot of work gerng en— backlog? well there's a lot of work going on on— backlog? well there's a lot of work going on on the backlog, wrger. — work going on on the backlog, wrger. r— work going on on the backlog, wrger. r en— work going on on the backlog, nigel. i do know— work going on on the backlog, nigel. r:rtr work going on on the backlog, nigel. r:rt:r “r: work going on on the backlog, nigel. r:rtr “r: nigel. i do know that. and one of the reasons, you know, it's very easy to say, well, why is the caseworker really be the caseworker really must be really we only do one really useless if we only do one case. places you case. there's lots of places you have send the file to even if have to send the file to even if you want to grant somebody asylum, got send it to asylum, you've got to send it to this department. and that department to check this check that security that is there. security threat? is something else? so is there something else? so we've embroiled in we've got ourselves embroiled in this bureaucratic mess, this huge bureaucratic mess, us of asylum cases, which you can't, the best will can't, even with the best will in world, resolve. it's in in the world, resolve. it's in your pending trade because it's been somebody what been sent to somebody else. what they're trying to do is streamline. lived under streamline. now, i lived under a single ownership. i'm a big single case ownership. i'm a big advocate of saying should be advocate of saying you should be empowered a case owner to empowered as a case owner to actually you actually manage that. and you make decision. you make a make the decision. you make a decision make decision. decision and make the decision. now they are working on that, and think that is beginning to and i think that is beginning to have impact. but have some small impact. but the best asylum best way to clear asylum backlogs grant them all backlogs is to grant them all well, really is. and know well, it really is. and i know this from own now. so we do this from my own now. so we do still at case conclude in a case conclusion is either a grant or a removal. there's no halfway house. what's happened we've

house. what's happened is we've stopped so you're stopped removals so you're either granting or everybody's in this. so that's why i keep coming back to this question, nigel, removals . we had an nigel, about removals. we had an absolute focus, laser like absolute focus, a laser like focus removing failed asylum focus on removing failed asylum seekers, and was under the seekers, and that was under the blair government were blair government and you were removing we were removing thousands. we were literally you look at literally if you look at the figures, you know, we compared with now were removing ten, with now we were removing ten, 12, times as many and we were 12, 12 times as many and we were focussed asylum. into focussed on asylum. we got into trouble stopped trouble because we stopped removing criminals and removing foreign criminals and we then not fit for purpose we were then not fit for purpose because moving all because we've been moving all our get the our resources to get the priority it. but we were priority of it. but we were removing lots lots of failed removing lots and lots of failed asylum nigel and now asylum seekers. nigel and now the cohort we're talking about now , i'm going to be if the now, i'm not going to be if the lawyers the courts lawyers allow it, the courts allow not be admitted allow it will not be admitted into asylum system . but so into the asylum system. but so what about the removal? my worry is so soft. take what about the removal? my worry is-so soft. take albania- what about the removal? my worry is-so soft. take albania .- is we're so soft. take albania. refere— is we're so soft. take albania. before we— is we're so soft. take albania. before we began— is we're so soft. take albania. before we began some deportation was before we began some deportation saw— before we began some deportation sew er— before we began some deportation was 55% of albanian asylum erarne. — was 55% of albanian asylum erarne. rnre— was 55% of albanian asylum claims. this acas a safe country . an ru— claims. this acas a safe country . an en aggrieanr— claims. this acas a safe country , an eu applicant country or a nanny—

, an eu applicant country or a holiday destination for tens of rneweanae— holiday destination for tens of thousands of— holiday destination for tens of thousands of brits every year. ana— thousands of brits every year. and we— thousands of brits every year. and we paeeea— thousands of brits every year. and we passed 55% of those crane— and we passed 55% of those erarne in— and we passed 55% of those claims in germany passed none 0 wane— claims in germany passed none 0 rrane r— claims in germany passed none 0 rrane r rnrnw— claims in germany passed none 0 france, i think was— claims in germany passed none 0 france, i think was in the low reene— france, i think was in the low reene .— france, i think was in the low reene . ee— france, i think was in the low reene . so us— france, i think was in the low teens . so us suella braverman teens. so us suella braverman ger— teens. so us suella braverman ger na— teens. so us suella braverman ger an ar— teens. so us suella braverman can get rid of the— teens. so us suella braverman can get rid of the backlog if everyone's allowed to stay, wnren— everyone's allowed to stay, wnren r— everyone's allowed to stay, which i have— everyone's allowed to stay, which i have to— everyone's allowed to stay, which i have to say i do find engnrw— which i have to say i do find slightly depressed. where do we go from — slightly depressed. where do we go from neree— slightly depressed. where do we go from here? we— slightly depressed. where do we go from here? we just wait for the go from here? we just wait for we eewen — go from here? we just wait for we eewen ne— go from here? we just wait for the courts. do we? i think so. nigel. for me, the next big landmark. i'll come back in two weeks to see if you're right. and i will your weatherman. and i will be your weatherman. you i saw mark white you know, i saw mark white earlier telling it's all earlier on telling me it's all about weather . okay, well, about the weather. okay, well, i'll come back and see if it is or if it isn't a couple of or if it isn't in a couple of weeks time for me, it's all about it's absolutely about rwanda. it's absolutely dependent. court dependent. now, on that court of appeal will they give appeal judgement, will they give them a to go again, to the them a right to go again, to the supreme court or to the echr? i don't know. you don't know? we've wait for that we've got to wait for that judgement. for me is judgement. but that for me is a real landmark because if we can get court a legal approval to put know all the plans put people i know all the plans are in place and they can do

that quite quickly. not for all of but they start of them, but once they start sending people to rwanda, that sends message. sends a very big message. i think, to the migrants in calais that actually it's not worth it. no. well, here we are. it's anaer— n0. well, here we are. it's almost exactly. _ \rrtr well, here we are. it's almost exactly. tony, thank you. it's almost exactly. tony, thank you. rr-e—eewen- almost exactly. tony, thank you. it's—seven yearsi it's almost exactly seven years nan— it's almost exactly seven years nan-were-r- from the brexit vote that i never believed _ from the brexit vote that i never believed that seven years on, never believed that seven years ra— never believed that seven years in ne— never believed that seven years on, i'd be sitting— never believed that seven years on, i'd be sitting in a gb on, i'd be sitting here in a gb wewe— on, i'd be sitting here in a gb wewe errata— on, i'd be sitting here in a gb news studio saying, let's hope, rere— news studio saying, let's hope, were none.— news studio saying, let's hope, rer-e nape. nape— news studio saying, let's hope, let's hope, hope that the judges in srraenewrg— let's hope, hope that the judges in strasbourg allow us to carry out in strasbourg allow us to carry an a— in strasbourg allow us to carry our a policy— in strasbourg allow us to carry out a policy that— in strasbourg allow us to carry out a policy that over 17 nruren— out a policy that over 17 million people voted for. but rnere— million people voted for. but rnereiare. — million people voted for. but there-are. and— million people voted for. but there are. and promise you there we are. and i promise you ana— there we are. and i promise you analnrenree— there we are. and i promise you analnrenree .— there we are. and i promise you anderomise , tony— there we are. and i promise you and promise , tony smith, two and i promise, tony smith, two weeke— and i promise, tony smith, two were reaaw. — and i promise, tony smith, two weeks today. if— and i promise, tony smith, two weeks today. if i'm wrong about rneweanae— weeks today. if i'm wrong about thousands crossing the english manner.— thousands crossing the english cnanner. r— thousands crossing the english channel, i will— thousands crossing the english channel, i will i— thousands crossing the english channel, i will i will apologise prerweew— channel, i will i will apologise prarweew .— channel, i will i will apologise prarweew . nar— channel, i will i will apologise profusely , but i'm— channel, i will i will apologise profusely , but i'm pretty profusely, but i'm pretty eenarn— profusely, but i'm pretty certain that— profusely, but i'm pretty certain that i— profusely, but i'm pretty certain that i won't actually need— certain that i won't actually need re. — certain that i won't actually need re. n— certain that i won't actually need re. n a— certain that i won't actually need to. in a moment, a report, ner— need to. in a moment, a report, new a— need to. in a moment, a report, new a aeaaenre— need to. in a moment, a report, not a academic report into the coer— not a academic report into the we or— not a academic report into the cost of lockdown _ not a academic report into the cost of lockdown in and how many twee— cost of lockdown in and how many we r— cost of lockdown in and how many lives it actually— cost of lockdown in and how many lives it actually saved. i've earn— lives it actually saved. i've eara n— lives it actually saved. i've said it before— lives it actually saved. i've said it before in- lives it actually saved. i've said it before in this programme. i'll say it again. we een-r— programme. i'll say it again. we een-r need— programme. i'll say it again. we een-r need a— programme. i'll say it again. we don't need a long,— programme. i'll say it again. we don't need a long, drawn out rngwrw— don't need a long, drawn out rngwrw .— don't need a long, drawn out rngwrw . we— don't need a long, drawn out inquiry . we need— don't need a long, drawn out inquiry . we need a full apology

inquiry. we need a full apology nan— inquiry. we need a full apology from everybody— inquiry. we need a full apology from everybody involved. all of war— from everybody involved. all of rnar in— from everybody involved. all of rnar rn iner— from everybody involved. all of rnar in we a— from everybody involved. all of that in just a moment

listening to gb news radio. i asked you, is rishi right to say the policy is beginning to work as the numbers that across the channelis as the numbers that across the channel is down by 20? well, now is it all just spin?— channel is down by 20? well, now is it all just spin? because- is it all just spin? because i rnrnw— is it all just spin? because i rnrnw n— is it all just spin? because i rnrnw n re. — is it all just spin? because i think it is. barbara says to me , i think it is. barbara says to me . r rnrnw— think it is. barbara says to me , i think rishi— think it is. barbara says to me , i think rishi is— think it is. barbara says to me , i think rishi is trying to nau— , i think rishi is trying to pan rne— , i think rishi is trying to pull the wool— , i think rishi is trying to pull the wool over our eyes. swean— pull the wool over our eyes. ewean eawe— pull the wool over our eyes. ewean eawe .— pull the wool over our eyes. susan says , gosh, this is a bit susan says, gosh, this is a bit errang.— susan says, gosh, this is a bit erreng. we— susan says, gosh, this is a bit erreng. we ne-e— susan says, gosh, this is a bit strong. no he's a— susan says, gosh, this is a bit strong. no he's a liar and a rake— strong. no he's a liar and a rake err.— strong. no he's a liar and a rake pm. we— strong. no he's a liar and a fake pm. no one- strong. no he's a liar and a fake pm. no one voted for him. srreng— fake pm. no one voted for him. strong opinions— fake pm. no one voted for him. strong opinions there from susan and ryan— strong opinions there from susan and ryan eawe— strong opinions there from susan and ryan eawe no.— strong opinions there from susan and ryan says no. he clearly has no rnrereer— and ryan says no. he clearly has no rnrereer in— and ryan says no. he clearly has no interest in actually solving the no interest in actually solving rne enau— no interest in actually solving the small boats— no interest in actually solving the small boats crisis. the announcement— the small boats crisis. the announcement of two more barges is a announcement of two more barges re a cynical— announcement of two more barges is a cynical publicity stunt. soo— is a cynical publicity stunt. soo weara— is a cynical publicity stunt. 500 would often arrive in a erngre— 500 would often arrive in a erngre gaw— 500 would often arrive in a erngre gay in— 500 would often arrive in a single day in the summer of 22. ana— single day in the summer of 22. ana wee— single day in the summer of 22. ana wee .— single day in the summer of 22. ana wee . we— single day in the summer of 22. and yes , we know— single day in the summer of 22. and yes , we know about the barge and yes, we know about the barge in and yes, we know about the barge rn nonrand— and yes, we know about the barge rn nonrana .— and yes, we know about the barge in portland . the— and yes, we know about the barge in portland . the prime minister in portland. the prime minister reaaw— in portland. the prime minister today announced— in portland. the prime minister today announced he's managed to get

today announced he's managed to ger rwe— today announced he's managed to ger we more— today announced he's managed to get two more barges and those nargee— get two more barges and those nargee wee— get two more barges and those barges were both— get two more barges and those barges were both take 500 each. but barges were both take 500 each. err in— barges were both take 500 each. err in rare— barges were both take 500 each. but in late august— barges were both take 500 each. but in late august last year, noo— but in late august last year, rzee young— but in late august last year, 1200 young men— but in late august last year, 1200 young men came in a single day.— 1200 young men came in a single day. so— 1200 young men came in a single day- so new.— 1200 young men came in a single day. so rishi, you're— 1200 young men came in a single day. so rishi, you're going to need— day. so rishi, you're going to need re— day. so rishi, you're going to need re ger— day. so rishi, you're going to need re ger a— day. so rishi, you're going to need to get a lot— day. so rishi, you're going to need to get a lot more barges or a rer— need to get a lot more barges or a war mere— need to get a lot more barges or a lot more hotels— need to get a lot more barges or a lot more hotels or— need to get a lot more barges or a lot more hotels or a lot more aware— a lot more hotels or a lot more private residents. _ a lot more hotels or a lot more private residents. now, remarkable— private residents. now, remarkable story. overnight, we nave— remarkable story. overnight, we nave been— remarkable story. overnight, we have been talking— remarkable story. overnight, we have been talking a lot about the have been talking a lot about we coer— have been talking a lot about we we or— have been talking a lot about the cost of lockdown, about some of the cost of lockdown, about some or we— the cost of lockdown, about some of the disastrous— the cost of lockdown, about some of the disastrous decisions that were made . and— of the disastrous decisions that were made . and overnight today , were made. and overnight today, the were made. and overnight today, rne darw— were made. and overnight today, the daily telegraph have predecea— the daily telegraph have produced a— the daily telegraph have produced a pretty remarkable renew.— produced a pretty remarkable repen. ana— produced a pretty remarkable report. and let's— produced a pretty remarkable report. and let's remind ourselves,— report. and let's remind ourselves, the- report. and let's remind ourselves, the first national reewaewn— ourselves, the first national lockdown was _ ourselves, the first national lockdown was march to june 20th, 20. nar— lockdown was march to june 20th, 20. an rnen— lockdown was march to june 20th, 20. but then they— lockdown was march to june 20th, 20. but then they did it again wran— 20. but then they did it again win a— 20. but then they did it again with a second— 20. but then they did it again with a second national lockdown in november— with a second national lockdown in november of— with a second national lockdown in november of 2020. we then enrerea— in november of 2020. we then enrerea inro— in november of 2020. we then entered into the— in november of 2020. we then entered into the most extra erarnaw— entered into the most extra ordinary complexity of tiers two ordinary complexity of tiers two or were.— ordinary complexity of tiers two or tiers, three— ordinary complexity of tiers two or tiers, three and— ordinary complexity of tiers two or tiers, three and tiers four. ana— or tiers, three and tiers four. ana rnen— or tiers, three and tiers four. and then the— or tiers, three and tiers four. and then the third national reewaewn— and then the third national lockdown was _ and then the third national lockdown was from january to maren— lockdown was from january to maren zozr. — lockdown was from january to maren we r— lockdown was from january to

march 2021. i suspect that by ane— march 2021. i suspect that by we ine— march 2021. i suspect that by we rrne ar— march 2021. i suspect that by the time of the— march 2021. i suspect that by the time of the third lockdown, neopre— the time of the third lockdown, peopre — the time of the third lockdown, people were beginning en masse to people were beginning en masse ro ignore— people were beginning en masse ro rgnore n— people were beginning en masse ro rgnore n .— people were beginning en masse to ignore it . but— people were beginning en masse to ignore it. but an academic repon— to ignore it. but an academic repon rnar— to ignore it. but an academic repon rnar re— to ignore it. but an academic report that is out— to ignore it. but an academic report that is out overnight non— report that is out overnight from ro— report that is out overnight from to independent and they are eeonornrere— from to independent and they are economists more— from to independent and they are economists more than anything ene— economists more than anything eree. ana— economists more than anything else. and what— economists more than anything else. and what they've come up wrrn— else. and what they've come up wrrn re— else. and what they've come up with is remarkable. you see, we pag— with is remarkable. you see, we rora ar— with is remarkable. you see, we were told at the— with is remarkable. you see, we were told at the beginning that if were told at the beginning that n we— were told at the beginning that if the government didn't act narr— if the government didn't act nan a— if the government didn't act half a million— if the government didn't act half a million people would die. ana— half a million people would die. and rnar— half a million people would die. and rnar wae— half a million people would die. and that was pretty bloomin eeaw. — and that was pretty bloomin eeaw. we— and that was pretty bloomin eeaw. we wee— and that was pretty bloomin scary. we were then told, even if scary. we were then told, even n we — scary. we were then told, even if the government— scary. we were then told, even if the government did act, it prew— if the government did act, it was likely that— if the government did act, it was likely that excess deaths of a gwaner— was likely that excess deaths of a aware of— was likely that excess deaths of a gwaner or a— was likely that excess deaths of a quarter of a million people wowe— a quarter of a million people would occur.— a quarter of a million people would occur. and— a quarter of a million people would occur. and this landmark erwaw— would occur. and this landmark study concludes— would occur. and this landmark study concludes that actually rook— study concludes that actually rook aown — study concludes that actually lock down the— study concludes that actually lock down the country had a negngrpre— lock down the country had a negligible effect— lock down the country had a negligible effect , not lock down the country had a negligible effect, not on lock down the country had a negligible effect , not on those negligible effect, not on those dying— negligible effect, not on those dying of— negligible effect, not on those dying or cone.— negligible effect, not on those dying of covid. and they say rnar— dying of covid. and they say rnar n— dying of covid. and they say rnar n wae— dying of covid. and they say that it was a— dying of covid. and they say that it was a policy failure of grganne— that it was a policy failure of gigantic proportions. and of . rne— gigantic proportions. and of course , the rationale for that course, the rationale for that is course, the rationale for that re rne— course, the rationale for that is the economic— course, the rationale for that is the economic damage that it are. — is the economic damage that it are. we— is the economic damage that it did. the rationale— is the economic damage that it did. the rationale for that is ane— did. the rationale for that is the educational— did. the rationale for that is the educational damage that it are. — the educational damage that it are. ana— the educational damage that it did. and frankly—

the educational damage that it did. and frankly and frankly, it has did. and frankly and frankly, it nae been— did. and frankly and frankly, it nae been a— did. and frankly and frankly, it has been a complete and utter areaerer.— has been a complete and utter areaerer. ana— has been a complete and utter disaster. and nobody has aporogreea— disaster. and nobody has aporogreea .— disaster. and nobody has apologised , not matt hancock , apologised, not matt hancock, or— apologised, not matt hancock, or men— apologised, not matt hancock, none of them have apologised to us none of them have apologised to we ar— none of them have apologised to we ar an. — none of them have apologised to we ar an. ana— none of them have apologised to us at all. and all— none of them have apologised to us at all. and all we have is a erwpra— us at all. and all we have is a erwpra gap.— us at all. and all we have is a stupid sixth form _ us at all. and all we have is a stupid sixth form a game going on or— stupid sixth form a game going on of whether— stupid sixth form a game going on of whether boris is going to give— on of whether boris is going to give more— on of whether boris is going to give more information to the rngwrw— give more information to the rngwrw or— give more information to the inquiry or whether rishi and the eowernnenr— inquiry or whether rishi and the government will— inquiry or whether rishi and the government will do so. boris, vou— government will do so. boris, wow know— government will do so. boris, wow know in— government will do so. boris, you know i'm coming clean. i'm giving— you know i'm coming clean. i'm giving rnen— you know i'm coming clean. i'm giving rnen au— you know i'm coming clean. i'm giving them all they want. rishi wru. — giving them all they want. rishi wru. wwen— giving them all they want. rishi wru. rrwen or— giving them all they want. rishi will. much of this— giving them all they want. rishi will. much of this stuff is pereonar— will. much of this stuff is personal and— will. much of this stuff is personal and not necessary. i rnrnw— personal and not necessary. i rnrnw rne— personal and not necessary. i think the whole— personal and not necessary. i think the whole thing is wneeenrw— think the whole thing is unseemly and wrong, and it's gwrre— unseemly and wrong, and it's owe a— unseemly and wrong, and it's quite a thought,— unseemly and wrong, and it's quite a thought, isn't it, that war— quite a thought, isn't it, that rnar p..— quite a thought, isn't it, that that in sweden— quite a thought, isn't it, that that in sweden ,_ quite a thought, isn't it, that that in sweden , in their inquiry that in sweden, in their inquiry is that in sweden, in their inquiry re none— that in sweden, in their inquiry is done dusted— that in sweden, in their inquiry is done dusted and it's over now , is done dusted and it's over now .rawrng— is done dusted and it's over now .rarwng or— is done dusted and it's over now , talking of science— is done dusted and it's over now , talking of science , that can , talking of science, that can be , talking of science, that can we werw— , talking of science, that can be werw. werw— , talking of science, that can be very, very wrong . is it be very, very wrong. is it poeerpre— be very, very wrong. is it possible that— be very, very wrong. is it possible that when it comes to the devastating _ possible that when it comes to the devastating predictions apowr— the devastating predictions apowr wnar— the devastating predictions about what will happen to our winne— about what will happen to our ewnare. ro— about what will happen to our climate, to our— about what will happen to our climate, to our world, unless we rake— climate, to our world, unless we rake raarear— climate, to our world, unless we take radical action,— climate, to our world, unless we take radical action, is it poeerpre— take radical action, is it possible some of that might have

been— possible some of that might have been over exaggerated? but wnerner— been over exaggerated? but wnerner n— been over exaggerated? but whether it is— been over exaggerated? but whether it is or— been over exaggerated? but whether it is or whether it ten-r.— whether it is or whether it ren-r. wnar— whether it is or whether it isn't, what is— whether it is or whether it isn't, what is clear is that ed wrwpana— isn't, what is clear is that ed rrirpana re— isn't, what is clear is that ed miliband is back— isn't, what is clear is that ed miliband is back in the frame. yesr_ miliband is back in the frame. wee. ne— miliband is back in the frame. wee. ne nae— miliband is back in the frame. yes, he has taken— miliband is back in the frame. yes, he has taken a very senior poerrron— yes, he has taken a very senior position heading— yes, he has taken a very senior position heading up to the next generat— position heading up to the next general election— position heading up to the next general election and it looks wre— general election and it looks pp. ne— general election and it looks like he wants— general election and it looks like he wants the labour party to like he wants the labour party ro mower— like he wants the labour party to model what— like he wants the labour party to model what joe biden has done in america— to model what joe biden has done in america .— to model what joe biden has done in america . biden's_ to model what joe biden has done in america . biden's package in in america. biden's package in america— in america. biden's package in america or— in america. biden's package in america of subsidies for green energw— america of subsidies for green energy totalling— america of subsidies for green energy totalling hundreds of prurone— energy totalling hundreds of prurone .— energy totalling hundreds of billions . well,— energy totalling hundreds of billions . well, miliband wants billions. well, miliband wants a package— billions. well, miliband wants a package anar— billions. well, miliband wants a package that would be about 28 pinion— package that would be about 28 pruron ewerw— package that would be about 28 billion every single year. we've aeo— billion every single year. we've areo neare— billion every single year. we've also heard the— billion every single year. we've also heard the labour party announcement— also heard the labour party announcement that when they come to announcement that when they come ro poer— announcement that when they come ro poer n— announcement that when they come ro poorer if new— announcement that when they come to power, if they come to power, rnere-u— to power, if they come to power, rnere-u pe— to power, if they come to power, rnere-u we no— to power, if they come to power, there'll be no new— to power, if they come to power, there'll be no new investment in nonn— there'll be no new investment in wonn sea— there'll be no new investment in wonn sea oi— there'll be no new investment in north sea oil or— there'll be no new investment in north sea oil or gas and the enp-e— north sea oil or gas and the ewe gary— north sea oil or gas and the gmb's gary smith and 1 or 2 of we— gmb's gary smith and 1 or 2 of we wnone— gmb's gary smith and 1 or 2 of the unions are— gmb's gary smith and 1 or 2 of the unions are beginning to say, war,— the unions are beginning to say, weu. wnar— the unions are beginning to say, well, what about— the unions are beginning to say, well, what about our jobs ? and well, what about our jobs? and consumer groups— well, what about our jobs? and consumer groups are asking if wow— consumer groups are asking if wow go— consumer groups are asking if wow go on— consumer groups are asking if you go on pushing us towards rowarae— you go on pushing us towards towards heat— you go on pushing us towards towards heat pumps and much else who towards heat pumps and much else wno can— towards heat pumps and much else wno prew— towards heat pumps and much else wno pron wp— towards heat pumps and much else who can pick up the— towards heat pumps and much else who can pick up the tab. and i pwer— who can pick up the tab. and i we wonera— who can pick up the tab. and i just wonder whether i wonder wnerner— just wonder whether i wonder whether this— just wonder whether i wonder whether this whole headlong

commitment— whether this whole headlong commitment to— whether this whole headlong commitment to net zero is eonernrng— commitment to net zero is something that— commitment to net zero is something that perhaps a keir srarner— something that perhaps a keir starmer might— something that perhaps a keir starmer might might reconsider. war,— starmer might might reconsider. wew. joining— starmer might might reconsider. wew. joining ne— starmer might might reconsider. well, joining me is michael jacobe— well, joining me is michael jacobs, professor of political eonornw— jacobs, professor of political eonornw ar— jacobs, professor of political economy at the— jacobs, professor of political economy at the university of the wnwererrw— economy at the university of the university research institute ana— university research institute and a— university research institute and a former— university research institute and a former adviser to gordon brown— and a former adviser to gordon brown wnen— and a former adviser to gordon brown when he— and a former adviser to gordon brown when he was prime winner.— brown when he was prime minister. and— brown when he was prime minister. and i— brown when he was prime minister. and i think it's agno— minister. and i think it's right, michael, you were very nwen— right, michael, you were very nwen aona— right, michael, you were very much around at— right, michael, you were very much around at the time of the zoos— much around at the time of the zoos cwnare— much around at the time of the 2008 climate change act . 2008 climate change act. rnweew— 2008 climate change act. rnweew r— 2008 climate change act. indeed, i was— 2008 climate change act. indeed, i was nice- 2008 climate change act. indeed, i was nice to- 2008 climate change act. indeed, i was nice to be on your programme. very good. very good to have you. look, you know, we all to have you. look, you know, we at wanr— to have you. look, you know, we at wanr a— to have you. look, you know, we all want a clean,— to have you. look, you know, we all want a clean, green,- look, you know, we all want a clean, green, good enwronrnenr— all want a clean, green, good environment to— all want a clean, green, good environment to live in. there's no gweenon— environment to live in. there's no question about— environment to live in. there's no question about that. but do you— no question about that. but do wow-rne— no question about that. but do wow-rne pornr— no question about that. but do you the point making you see the point i'm making anar— you see the point i'm making war-enn- you see the point i'm making that-gmb speak. you see the point i'm making that gmb speak up as that when the gmb speak up as worwpw— that when the gmb speak up as worwprw ae— that when the gmb speak up as worwprw ae anew— that when the gmb speak up as volubly as they have about the porenrrar— volubly as they have about the potential loss— volubly as they have about the potential loss of— volubly as they have about the potential loss of jobs in the nonn— potential loss of jobs in the worn sea— potential loss of jobs in the worn sea .— potential loss of jobs in the north sea , and— potential loss of jobs in the north sea , and when consumers north sea, and when consumers eran— north sea, and when consumers eran ro— north sea, and when consumers eran ro ger— north sea, and when consumers start to get scared,— north sea, and when consumers start to get scared, not just apowr— start to get scared, not just apowr ane— start to get scared, not just about the amount of subsidy arreaaw— about the amount of subsidy arreaaw on— about the amount of subsidy already on their— about the amount of subsidy already on their electricity wire— already on their electricity wire .— already on their electricity wire . pup— already on their electricity bills , but the— already on their electricity bills , but the idea of heat bills, but the idea of heat pumps— bills, but the idea of heat pwnpe. wnron— bills, but the idea of heat pumps, which in, you know, an order— pumps, which in, you know, an order noee—

pumps, which in, you know, an older house, it's— pumps, which in, you know, an older house, it's going to be agno— older house, it's going to be eight, £10,000.— older house, it's going to be eight, £10,000. and i just wonera— eight, £10,000. and i just wonder whether the sort of ed wrwpana— wonder whether the sort of ed miliband school— wonder whether the sort of ed miliband school of what we ought to miliband school of what we ought o oo— miliband school of what we ought o no apowr— miliband school of what we ought to do about climate— miliband school of what we ought to do about climate change, wnerner— to do about climate change, whether that— to do about climate change, whether that perhaps is rather ar— whether that perhaps is rather ar none— whether that perhaps is rather more at home in— whether that perhaps is rather more at home in islington in nonn— more at home in islington in nonn london— more at home in islington in north london than it is in the rea— north london than it is in the reg warr— north london than it is in the red wall seats— north london than it is in the red wall seats that labour needs to red wall seats that labour needs ro win— red wall seats that labour needs ro wrn pack— red wall seats that labour needs ro wrn pack ar— red wall seats that labour needs to win back at the— red wall seats that labour needs to win back at the next election 7 to win back at the next election e wow.— to win back at the next election ? well, there's— to win back at the next election ? well, there's polling- to win back at the next election ? well, there's polling on that actually , which is which shows actually, which is which shows that people in the red wall and people all over the country worry about climate change. people have children anddthey people have children and they worrw— people have children and they worw apowr— people have children and they worry about the _ people have children and they worry about the kind of world people have children and they worrwe're it the kind of world people have children and they worrwe're leavingnd of world people have children and they worrwe're leaving forof world people have children and they worrwe're leaving for our orld that we're leaving for our eniaren— that we're leaving for our eniaren .— that we're leaving for our children . and— that we're leaving for our children . and the worry about children. and so the worry about ewnare— children. and so the worry about climate change— children. and so the worry about climate change is— children. and so the worry about climate change is universal aeroee-eownrrw- climate change is universal across-country .- climate change is universal across country . and it isn't across the country. and it isn't pwer— across the country. and it isn't we re— across the country. and it isn't just ed miliband,— across the country. and it isn't just ed miliband, of course, rnar— just ed miliband, of course, that-desire- just ed miliband, of course, that-desire to- just ed miliband, of course, that desire to go to net that has the desire to go to net n— that has the desire to go to net n re— that has the desire to go to net n e rne— that has the desire to go to net zero. it is the government which nae— zero. it is the government which has committed— zero. it is the government which has committed legally to go to net has committed legally to go to ner rne— has committed legally to go to net zero. the whole of the rapowr— net zero. the whole of the rapowr ranw— net zero. the whole of the labour party is— net zero. the whole of the labour party is behind the net policv-_ labour party is behind the net ponew. so— labour party is behind the net zero policy. so the zero policy. so is the conservative- zero policy. so is the conservative so are zero policy. so is the cortheiative so are zero policy. so is the corthe other so are zero policy. so is the corthe other parties so are zero policy. so is the corthe other parties and) are zero policy. so is the corthe other parties and s0'e zero policy. so is the corthe other parties and so is all the other parties and so is ewerw— all the other parties and so is ewerw eownrrw— all the other parties and so is every country-the- all the other parties and so is every country the world. every country in the world. wnar-e— every country in the world. what's—about. every country in the world. l what's—about this every country in the world. - what's—about this is what's interesting about this is war— what's interesting about this is rnar rnere— what's interesting about this is rnar rnere re— what's interesting about this is that there is extraordinary that there is this extraordinary. consensus _that consensus that the impacts that eneo— rne- consensus that the impacts thati we're—on the climate consensus that the impacts that we' so on the climate consensus that the impacts that we' so serious on the climate consensus that the impacts that we' so serious thatin the climate consensus that the impacts that we' so serious that every climate are so serious that every eownrrw— are so serious that every eownrrw re— are so serious that every country is now- are so serious that every country is now committed to gearing— country is now committed to

gearing-zero.- country is now committed to getting-zero. so- country is now committed to getting zero. so this is getting to net zero. so this is a he— getting to net zero. so this is a rnre ten-r— getting to net zero. so this is arnre em a— getting to net zero. so this is a this isn't a partisan thing. rnre— a this isn't a partisan thing. rnre re— a this isn't a partisan thing. this is something that pretty nwen— this is something that pretty. nwen—eownrrw much everybody in the country wanre— much everybody in the country wanre ro— much everybody in the country wanre rolana— much everybody in the country wants to and which all wants to do and which all eownnree— wants to do and which all countries-now- wants to do and which all countries now trying to countries are now trying to do peaee— countries are now trying to do peeawee—or- countries are now trying to doj because—of the because of the urgency of the errwanon— because of the urgency of the errwanon . — because of the urgency of the situation . yeah,— because of the urgency of the situation . “411?" ?“r: because of the urgency of the situation. / ?“r: g“rt;”rt; because of the urgency of the situation. / ?“r: situation. yeah, and there was a consensus actually everywhere apart from sweden and the state of florida, maybe texas , that of florida, maybe texas, that locking was the only way to locking down was the only way to deal with coronavirus. and that turned out not to be right . i turned out not to be right. i mean, when you say you know, there's huge support for climate change policies, well, not when you tell people what it's actually going to cost them and not when you explain to people, not when you explain to people, you know, the cost is coming from fossilfuels. the you know, the cost is coming from fossil fuels. the reason we nave— from fossil fuels. the reason we nave record— from fossil fuels. the reason we have record energy— from fossil fuels. the reason we have record energy bills- t the reason we have record energy bills and peopre— have record energy bills and people-pressure. have record energy bills and people pressure from people are such pressure from the people are such pressure from we coer— people are such pressure from we eoer or— people are such pressure from the cost of living— people are such pressure from the cost of living is the cost of living crisis is peaee— the cost of living crisis is peaee or— the cost of living crisis is because of fossil fuel prices. we— because of fossil fuel prices. we peaee— because of fossil fuel prices. it's because gas— because of fossil fuel prices. it's because gas and oil prices nave— it's because gas and oil prices nave ween— it's because gas and oil prices nave eo— it's because gas and oil prices have risen so much. and so the arrenpr— have risen so much. and so the arrenpr ro— have risen so much. and so the attempt to take— have risen so much. and so the attempt to take us— have risen so much. and so the attempt to take us away from gas and attempt to take us away from gas analro— attempt to take us away from gas analro eawe— attempt to take us away from gas and-to reduce our— attempt to take us away from gas and to reduce our dependence and oil to reduce our dependence on—rwere— and oil to reduce our dependence on—rwere re- and oil to reduce our dependence on_fuels is not- on those fossil fuels is not onw— on those fossil fuels is not only good— on those fossil fuels is not only good for— on those fossil fuels is not only good for climate change, it's essential— only good for climate change, it's essential for— only good for climate change, it's essential for climate mange.— it's essential for climate change, to change, but it's also going to be change, but it's also going to roe-for— change, but it's also going to pe-ror ow— change, but it's also going to be -for our bills. - change, but it's also going to be for our bills. so find be good for our bills. so i find we— be good for our bills. so i find rnre rearw— be good for our bills. so i find rnre really an— be good for our bills. so i find this really an extraordinary

argwnenr. — this really an extraordinary argument. well, hang on a eeeona— argument. well, hang on a second—want. argument. well, hang on a. second. _want the argument. well, hang on a- second. _want the high second. you cannot want the high price.— second. you cannot want the high pneee. rer— second. you cannot want the high prices. let-finish.— second. you cannot want the high prices. let finish. you can prices. let me finish. you can nor— prices. let me finish. you can nor-rne— prices. let me finish. you can nor-rne nrgn— prices. let me finish. you can not the high prices, but not want the high prices, but men— not want the high prices, but rnen wow— not want the high prices, but then you also— not want the high prices, but then you also think that it's rearw— then you also think that it's really important— then you also think that it's really important that have really important that we have none—ane- really important that we have more—rne oii more oil and gas. it's the oil ana— more oil and gas. it's the oil and gae— more oil and gas. it's the oil and gae pneee— more oil and gas. it's the oil and gas prices which causing and gas prices which are causing the-inflation— and gas prices which are causing the-inflation-cost. the terrible inflation and cost of the terrible inflation and cost or—rnar- the terrible inflation and cost or—rnar we- the terrible inflation and cost of_that we have. of living crisis that we have rne— of living crisis that we have now. the price— of living crisis that we have now. the price of gas is now rower— now. the price of gas is now rower rnan— now. the price of gas is now lower than it— now. the price of gas is now lower than it was, is now lower rnan— lower than it was, is now lower rnan-perore— lower than it was, is now lower than-before putin- lower than it was, is now lower than before putin invaded than it was before putin invaded wwrarne. — than it was before putin invaded wwrarne. wee.— than it was before putin invaded ukraine. “rt;t: t: by. t ukraine. yes, commodity prices can be volatile. i get that . i can be volatile. i get that. i understand that fully. but let's face it, wind energy has over the last couple of decades , cost the last couple of decades, cost every household a great deal of money. and because of this consensus that you talk about between labour, the conservatives, cobbley and all, you know, people hadn't realised that they were spending an extra 20, 25% on their bills to subsidise wind energy. the point, the point, subsidise wind energy. the point, the point , michael, subsidise wind energy. the point, the point, michael, i'm making is this is 8, so less than a 10th of your energy bill. and of course now it's been rawen— and of course now it's been rawen awaw— and of course now it's been taken away from _ and of course now it's been taken away from your energy pir- — taken away from your energy pir- so— taken away from your energy pir- so p..— taken away from your energy bill. so in fact,— taken away from your energy bill. so in fact, your energy pru— bill. so in fact, your energy bill doesn't— bill. so in fact, your energy bill doesn't have any green rewee— bill doesn't have any green rewee on— bill doesn't have any green levies on it.— bill doesn't have any green levies on it. that's now being para— levies on it. that's now being paid for— levies on it. that's now being

pan for pw— levies on it. that's now being paid for by general taxation. awr— paid for by general taxation. nwrlwae— paid for by general taxation. butlwas less— paid for by general taxation. but was less than and of but it was less than 10. and of course, your energy bill has more-doubled- course, your energy bill has more doubled because of the more than doubled because of the rise more than doubled because of the nee-or— more than doubled because of the nee-or roeei— more than doubled because of the rise _of fossil fuels. - rise in prices of fossil fuels. wow.— rise in prices of fossil fuels. well,-agree. would- rise in prices of fossil fuels. twittt ?3 ”cc; would it be well, we'll agree. would it be perrere — well, we'll agree. would it be better? we'll agree to disagree on that. undergo these extraordinary- undergo these extraordinary energy price worarirrw— extraordinary energy price volatility price rises volatility and price rises or renewables,_ volatility and price rises or. renewables,_reliable renewables, which are reliable ana— renewables, which are reliable ana-rnen— renewables, which are reliable and-then-mostl and cheap, then i think most peopre— and cheap, then i think most people wir— and cheap, then i think most people will eaw— and cheap, then i think most people will say, let's go for we— people will say, let's go for the renewables and then we get a eate— the renewables and then we get a eare ewnare— the renewables and then we get a safe climate to— the renewables and then we get a safe climate to michael, renewables— safe climate to michael, renewables not cheap. safe climate to michael,- renewables-not cheap. they renewables are not cheap. they can-r— renewables are not cheap. they can-r ewwwe— renewables are not cheap. they can't survive without subsidy. but you and i would disagree on that. for moment, that. and yes, for the moment, but subsidies but they've taken the subsidies off. they're going to go off. but but they're going to go back on. but here's my point. and they are getting cheaper. were-e— and they are getting cheaper. were-e-nerng- and they are getting cheaper. here's being installed here's my point. being installed ewerwwnere— here's my point. being installed everywhere world. everywhere around the world. were-e— everywhere around the world. were-e-pornr. — everywhere around the world. here's-point. .labour- everywhere around the world. i here's-point. .labour want here's my point. if labour want to win back those red wall seats, if they're going to carry on with current government policy to get rid, for example , policy to get rid, for example, for example of gas boilers and replace them with very expensive heat pumps, if they if they're serious about us having very expensive kyiv and perhaps unreliable electric cars after

2030, they will struggle with those policies to win back those red wall seats . do you think red wall seats. do you think i don't agree with . no, i don't. don't agree with. no, i don't. okay. because what labour wants to okay. because what labour wants o oo— okay. because what labour wants o no re— okay. because what labour wants o no re ro— okay. because what labour wants to do is to spend— okay. because what labour wants to do is to spend money on green reennorogree— to do is to spend money on green technologies all— to do is to spend money on green technologies all around the eownrrw— technologies all around the eownrrw .— technologies all around the eownrrw . so.— technologies all around the country . so, for— technologies all around the country . so, for example, the country. so, for example, the bigger— country. so, for example, the biggest element— country. so, for example, the biggest element of the 28 wnron— biggest element of the 28 pruron a— biggest element of the 28 billion a year— biggest element of the 28 billion a year spending pledge is billion a year spending pledge re p..— billion a year spending pledge re rn energw— billion a year spending pledge is in energy efficiency , which is in energy efficiency, which is in energy efficiency, which re making— is in energy efficiency, which is making homes properly fit to rwe— is making homes properly fit to we p..— is making homes properly fit to we in ana— is making homes properly fit to live in and not— is making homes properly fit to live in and not draughty and oow.— live in and not draughty and oow. rnar— live in and not draughty and cold. that will— live in and not draughty and cold. that will save people's wire.— cold. that will save people's wire. vow— cold. that will save people's prue. wow paw— cold. that will save people's bills. you pay much less energy, opwioweiw— bills. you pay much less energy, opwowew. n— bills. you pay much less energy, obviously, if your— bills. you pay much less energy, obviously, if your home is well rnewrarea.— obviously, if your home is well rnewrarea. n— obviously, if your home is well insulated, it will— obviously, if your home is well insulated, it will reduce insulated, it will also reduce energw— insulated, it will also reduce our energy demand, which means rnar— our energy demand, which means war-nave— our energy demand, which means rnar-nawe ro— our energy demand, which means rnar-nawe ro paw- our energy demand, which means that-have to pay so- that we don't have to pay so nwen— that we don't have to pay so nwen on— that we don't have to pay so much on our energy bills as a eownrrw.— much on our energy bills as a eownrrw. ana— much on our energy bills as a eownrrw. ana n— much on our energy bills as a country. and it will, course country. and it will, of course nake— country. and it will, of course nawe we— country. and it will, of course make us more— country. and it will, of course make us more secure. now, those rnrnge— make us more secure. now, those rnrnge wir— make us more secure. now, those things will create _ make us more secure. now, those things will create jobs in ewerwwnere— things will create jobs in everywhere a everywhere where there is a noee— everywhere where there is a noee so— everywhere where there is a house. so constituency in house. so every constituency in the house. so every constituency in rne-re— house. so every constituency in rne-re prew— house. so every constituency in the-is likely to- house. so every constituency in the is likely to benefit the country is likely to benefit non—r- the country is likely to benefit non—r thinkl from that policy. and i think nea— from that policy. and i think new war— from that policy. and i think red wall voters— from that policy. and i think red wall voters will at red wall voters will look at he— red wall voters will look at rnre ana— red wall voters will look at rnre ana eaw— red wall voters will look at rnre ana eaw .— red wall voters will look at this and say , this is we this and say, this is what we wanr. — this and say, this is what we wanr. we— this and say, this is what we wanr. we-r-ope- this and say, this is what we want. we-jobs in- this and say, this is what we want. we jobs in our areas, want. we want jobs in our areas, ana— want. we want jobs in our areas, and nee— want. we want jobs in our areas, and nere re— want. we want jobs in our areas, and nere re a— want. we want jobs in our areas, and nere re a waw— want. we want jobs in our areas, and here is a way of— want. we want jobs in our areas, and here is a way of creating rope.— and here is a way of creating rope. pa— and here is a way of creating jobs, but we'll— and here is a way of creating jobs, but we'll-be- jobs, but we'll still be rnpornng— jobs, but we'll still be importing coal jobs, but we'll still be importing-coal gas for importing oil, coal and gas for the importing oil, coal and gas for we near— importing oil, coal and gas for we near zo— importing oil, coal and gas for the next 20 years,— importing oil, coal and gas for the next 20 years, won't we?

yesr _ the next 20 years, won't we? yes, absolutely— the next 20 years, won't we? yes, absolutely we will. and we wir— yes, absolutely we will. and we win enu— yes, absolutely we will. and we win erru pe— yes, absolutely we will. and we will still be producing it. so ane— will still be producing it. so we rapowr— will still be producing it. so the labour party's commitment wnron— the labour party's commitment wnron re— the labour party's commitment now, which is not— the labour party's commitment now, which is not to have any epaeon— now, which is not to have any epaeon or— now, which is not to have any expansion of.and- now, which is not to have any expansion of and gas expansion of oil and gas proawerron— expansion of oil and gas production the north sea, production in the north sea, aoeen-r—we- doesn't mean that we won't eonnnwe— doesn't mean that we won't eonrrnwe ro— doesn't mean that we won't continue to produce they continue to produce it. they nawen-r— continue to produce it. they haven't-we're- continue to produce it. they haven't we're going to haven't said we're going to eroee— haven't said we're going to eroee-oi- haven't said we're going to close _oil fields. close down the oil fields. rnew-we— close down the oil fields. rnew-we pwer— close down the oil fields. they've just said we don't want to they've just said we don't want ro-rnen.— they've just said we don't want ro-rnen. eo— they've just said we don't want to _them. so there- they've just said we don't want to them. so there will to expand them. so there will enu— to expand them. so there will earn pe— to expand them. so there will still be another— to expand them. so there will still be another 25 years still be another 20 to 25 years ofland— still be another 20 to 25 years ofland gae— still be another 20 to 25 years of and gas coming out of the of oil and gas coming out of the worn— of oil and gas coming out of the worn-ana— of oil and gas coming out of the north .and .course,- of oil and gas coming out of the north and course, most north sea. and of course, most of north sea. and of course, most or-aerwauw— north sea. and of course, most of actually exported. we of that actually is exported. we won-r— of that actually is exported. we won-r aerwauw— of that actually is exported. we don't actually use— of that actually is exported. we don't actually use very much of our don't actually use very much of owr—e— don't actually use very much of owr—e rwe— don't actually use very much of owr—e we re- our own. this is this is michael, this is nonsense. i mean, this is labour party mean, this is the labour party which been very widely which has been very widely supported. the gmb representing rnerr— their workers, quite, quite understandable . he doesn't like understandable. he doesn't like it, understandable. he doesn't like in pw— understandable. he doesn't like n. w reo— understandable. he doesn't like it, but 150 organisations nearly rnre— it, but 150 organisations nearly rnre rnre— it, but 150 organisations nearly this this week— it, but 150 organisations nearly this this week supported that poww— this this week supported that policy, including organisations like policy, including organisations we we— policy, including organisations like the women's institute. weu. — like the women's institute. wow. it— like the women's institute. wow. it re— like the women's institute. well, it is completely- like the women's institute. well, it is completely and utterly mad because when a well runs dry about climate change, when a well runs dry, you have to drill another one. so the idea of what we're pumping at the moment, not running dry, we've got 25 years worth of oil and gas . we've got 25 years worth of oil and gas. michael i don't believe

and gas. michael i don't believe a word of it. we will agree. we nave— a word of it. we will agree. we nave ro— a word of it. we will agree. we nave ro pe— a word of it. we will agree. we nave ro pe ar— a word of it. we will agree. we have to be at net— a word of it. we will agree. we have to be at net zero.- : e we will agree. we have to be at net zero. so we wru— have to be at net zero. so we win agree— have to be at net zero. so we win agree ro— have to be at net zero. so we will agree to disagree , but will agree to disagree, but we'll agree to disagree. but it's good to have you on and it's good to have you on and it's good to see that those of us that are slightly sceptical are dealing with a religion. and it's a religion that has taken over. it's it's a religion that has taken over . it's the experts and this over. it's the experts and this is over. it's the experts and this re rwnaea— over. it's the experts and this re rwnaea pw— over. it's the experts and this is funded by tens— it's the experts and this is funded by tens of billions of raxpawere— is funded by tens of billions of taxpayers money.— is funded by tens of billions of taxpayers money. person i'm not rawrng— taxpayers money. person i'm not rawrng apowr— taxpayers money. person i'm not talking about religion, i'm wrong— talking about religion, i'm talking about— talking about religion, i'm talking about the scientific raere— talking about the scientific facts which _ talking about the scientific facts which are— talking about the scientific facts which are given by 99.9% of ar— facts which are given by 99.9% of all climate— facts which are given by 99.9% of all climate scientists . of all climate scientists. nrgnr. — of all climate scientists. nrgnr. rnere— of all climate scientists. right. there we- of all climate scientists. ?g“ which of all climate scientists. 3g“ “”rrt;t; ”r?t; which is right. there we are. which is why every right. there we are. which is wnw ewerw eownrrw— right. there we are. which is why every country in- 3g“ “”rrt;t; ”r?t; which is why every country in the world is why every country in the world re doing— why every country in the world re going in— why every country in the world is doing it. yeah,— why every country in the world is doing it. yeah, just like roekaown. — is doing it. yeah, just like lockdown. just- is doing it. yeah, just like lockdown. t t: is doing it. yeah, just like- lockdown. just like lockdown. if the experts say it's right one. but there was much more disagreement— but there was much more disagreement about whether or not disagreement about whether or nor r— disagreement about whether or nor r mean— disagreement about whether or nor r r— disagreement about whether or not i mean, i don't have a view on anar— not i mean, i don't have a view on rnar. pw— not i mean, i don't have a view on rnar. w n— not i mean, i don't have a view on that, but it was— not i mean, i don't have a view on that, but it was a much more areagreenenr— on that, but it was a much more disagreement amongst scientists arrow— disagreement amongst scientists about lockdown,— disagreement amongst scientists about lockdown, mostly in nrnaergnr.— about lockdown, mostly in hindsight,-say. i about lockdown, mostly in- hindsight,-say. mostly hindsight, i have to say. mostly it's hindsight, i have to say. mostly rr-e-roowng— hindsight, i have to say. mostly it's looking backwards it's people looking backwards ana— it's people looking backwards ana-nrgnr- it's people looking backwards and-might not- it's people looking backwards and might not have and saying it might not have been— and saying it might not have ween-wing- and saying it might not have been-thing as- and saying it might not have been thing as we been as good a thing as we rnowgnr— been as good a thing as we rnowgnr ar— been as good a thing as we thought at the— been as good a thing as we thought at the time. the nap-onw— thought at the time. the nap-onw or— thought at the time. the majority of scientists at the wne— majority of scientists at the rrne rnowgnr— majority of scientists at the time thought was good, but time thought it was good, but ewnare— time thought it was good, but climate scientists there isn't anar— climate scientists there isn't rnar—rei that disagreement. there is arnoer—

that disagreement. there is. arnoer—rnew almost universal. well, they newer— almost universal. well, they must then we have to must be right then we have to cut emissions very radically, very quickly. and why the very quickly. and that's why the rapowr— very quickly. and that's why the labour-committed- labour party is committed to going— labour party is committed to going-enowgn. i doing that. fair enough. wrenaew— doing that. fair enough. michael, thank- doing that. fair enough. i michael, thank .well, doing that. fair enough. michael, thank well, there michael, thank you. well, there we that is the we are, folks. that is the prevailing view in this country amongst our leaders, amongst our think tanks . they absolutely think tanks. they absolutely believe in this policy . think tanks. they absolutely believe in this policy. but frankly, if you believe that renewables give you cheap energy, they they do not if you believe they give you reliability, well , frankly, they reliability, well, frankly, they don't . i wish they reliability, well, frankly, they don't. i wish they did . reliability, well, frankly, they don't. i wish they did. in a moment, more on electric cars and why actually rowan atkinson has now become a sceptic

courtroom bombshells airs on dan woorron— courtroom bombshells airs on dan woorron .— courtroom bombshells airs on dan woorron . ana— courtroom bombshells airs on dan wootton . and tonight, 9 pm. wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. till wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. nu .— wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. nu . — wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. nu . wow.— wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. till . well, one— wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. till . well, one of- wootton. and tonight, 9 pm. till . till. well, one of the authors of that report into lockdown saying it only saved 1700 lives. and look at the cost on the other side is dr. lars johan , other side is dr. lars johan, professor emeritus at the knut wicksell centre for financial

studies at sweden's lund university, motty, and he joins me down the line . good evening. me down the line. good evening. thank you for joining me down the line. good evening. thank you forjoining us. in thank you for joining us. in terms of this report , were you terms of this report, were you looking i you know, obviously you're an economist. were you looking chiefly at financial costs ? no. first of all, we ask costs? no. first of all, we ask the question, what was the effect of lockdowns on motty rmt? and then once we got that answer , we are able to compare answer, we are able to compare the benefits of lockdowns with the benefits of lockdowns with the cost of lockdowns . and this the cost of lockdowns. and this is the approach that economists always take when they evaluate policies. we have to look at the benefits and the costs of a policy . at the same time . right. policy. at the same time. right. and our result was rather devastating for lockdowns in the sense that they had a negligible effect on mortality motty but

enormous costs to society, economic , political and social economic, political and social costs. yeah. economic, political and social costs . yeah. and somehow sweden costs. yeah. and somehow sweden , costs. yeah. and somehow sweden . we or— costs. yeah. and somehow sweden , we of course, decided— t yeah. and somehow sweden , we of course, decided not to rook— , we of course, decided not to took down — , we of course, decided not to lock down. and— , we of course, decided not to lock down. and i— , we of course, decided not to lock down. and i understand that wowe— lock down. and i understand that you've now concluded your rngwrrw— you've now concluded your rngwrrw inro— you've now concluded your inquiry into the— you've now concluded your inquiry into the covid period . inquiry into the covid period. now— inquiry into the covid period. now nwen— inquiry into the covid period. how much better— inquiry into the covid period. how much better pro rata is sweeten— how much better pro rata is sweden than— how much better pro rata is sweden than the united kingdom no— sweden than the united kingdom weir— sweden than the united kingdom now? well sweden— sweden than the united kingdom now? well sweden stands out as a werw— now? well sweden stands out as a werw gooe— now? well sweden stands out as a werw gooa aee— now? well sweden stands out as a werw gooa a— now? well sweden stands out as a very good case, a good case in ne— very good case, a good case in we eenee— very good case, a good case in the sense that— very good case, a good case in the sense that we— very good case, a good case in the sense that we did not try roekaowne— the sense that we did not try lockdowns to _ the sense that we did not try lockdowns to the— the sense that we did not try lockdowns to the same extent as the lockdowns to the same extent as we w— lockdowns to the same extent as we w ana— lockdowns to the same extent as the uk and comparing the performance— the uk and comparing the performance of the uk economy ana— performance of the uk economy and we— performance of the uk economy and the swedish— performance of the uk economy and the swedish economy is a it enowe— and the swedish economy is a it enowe anar— and the swedish economy is a it enowe rnar we — and the swedish economy is a it shows that we got— and the swedish economy is a it shows that we got away with very low shows that we got away with very row neear— shows that we got away with very low fiscal costs— shows that we got away with very low fiscal costs and— shows that we got away with very low fiscal costs and very good economic performance. ”rt; economic performance. compare to the economic performance. compare to we w— economic performance. compare to the uk and still our excess mortality is lower than that of the uk . we have all the benefits

the uk. we have all the benefits compared to the uk right? i mean thatis compared to the uk right? i mean that is extraordinary.— compared to the uk right? i mean that is extraordinary. and- compared to the uk right? i mean that is extraordinary. and at- t: ” g“7 i mean that is extraordinary. and at a rrne. — that is extraordinary. and at a rrne. so— that is extraordinary. and at a rrne. so we— that is extraordinary. and at a time. so the final— that is extraordinary. and at a time. so the final thought , time. so the final thought, rare.— time. so the final thought, rare. n— time. so the final thought, rare. n r— time. so the final thought, lars, if i may,— time. so the final thought, lars, if i may, at- time. so the final thought, lars, if i may, at a time when we— lars, if i may, at a time when we wno.— lars, if i may, at a time when we wno. re— lars, if i may, at a time when the who. is trying to put rogerner— the who. is trying to put rogerner a— the who. is trying to put together a pandemic treaty motty so together a pandemic treaty motty eo rnar— together a pandemic treaty motty eo rnar anew— together a pandemic treaty motty so that they can— together a pandemic treaty motty so that they can tell us when we need— so that they can tell us when we need ro— so that they can tell us when we need ro rook— so that they can tell us when we need to lock down,— so that they can tell us when we need to lock down, what are the reeeone— need to lock down, what are the reeeone rnar— need to lock down, what are the lessons that we _ need to lock down, what are the lessons that we should learn for the lessons that we should learn for we rwrwre— lessons that we should learn for we rwrwre n— lessons that we should learn for the future if this— lessons that we should learn for the future if this ever comes apowr— the future if this ever comes apowr .— the future if this ever comes about, which— the future if this ever comes about, which it— the future if this ever comes about, which it probably will again— about, which it probably will again .— about, which it probably will again . rne— about, which it probably will again , the lesson number one is again, the lesson number one is war— again, the lesson number one is rnar ao— again, the lesson number one is rnar ao nor— again, the lesson number one is that do not panic— again, the lesson number one is that do not panic ,_ again, the lesson number one is that do not panic , do not risk, that do not panic, do not risk, reepona— that do not panic, do not risk, reepona ro— that do not panic, do not risk, respond to alarmist projections nape— respond to alarmist projections naae pw— respond to alarmist projections naae pw people— respond to alarmist projections made by people who do not have a broad— made by people who do not have a broad wew— made by people who do not have a broad or— made by people who do not have a broad view of the— made by people who do not have a broad view of the effects of roekaown— broad view of the effects of roekaown . — broad view of the effects of lockdown . that's- broad view of the effects of lockdown . broad view of the effects of- lockdown . that's the number one lockdown. that's the number one recommendation. number two, recommendation. number two, recommend let us experiment . let recommend let us experiment. let us not have a global response similar across countries because as scientists , we gather as scientists, we gather evidence by having many different types of strategies tried at the same time, and then we learn from them . some will be

we learn from them. some will be successful, like the swedish one, some will be less successful like the china eas or the uk. one. yeah, no , no. i the uk. one. yeah, no, no. i think that's very wise- / i think that's very wise indeed. rare— think that's very wise indeed. rare town.— think that's very wise indeed. lars johan, thank— think that's very wise indeed. lars johan, thank you for joining— lars johan, thank you for joining ne— lars johan, thank you for joining me and well done for wow— joining me and well done for wow repon. — joining me and well done for your report. thank you . as your report. thank you. as i keep— your report. thank you. as i keep eawing— your report. thank you. as i keep saying, the— your report. thank you. as i keep saying, the government owe us keep saying, the government owe we an aporogw.— keep saying, the government owe us an apology. now, electric rere— us an apology. now, electric cars. let's all— us an apology. now, electric cars. let's all buy electric cars. yes, of— cars. let's all buy electric cars. yes, of course. they're wildly— cars. yes, of course. they're wildly expensive _ cars. yes, of course. they're wildly expensive . they're so wildly expensive. they're so neaww— wildly expensive. they're so neaww rnar— wildly expensive. they're so heavy that apparently some multi—storey_ heavy that apparently some multi—storey car parks might rnrnk— multi—storey car parks might rnrnk arrow— multi—storey car parks might think about banning them. rnew-re— think about banning them. rnew-re no— think about banning them. they're now more expensive if wow— they're now more expensive if wow wanr— they're now more expensive if wow wanr ro— they're now more expensive if you want to charge them up on the you want to charge them up on we nororwaw— you want to charge them up on the motorway than putting wnreaaea— the motorway than putting unleaded in— the motorway than putting unleaded in an rowan atkinson, wno-e— unleaded in an rowan atkinson, wno-e powgnr— unleaded in an rowan atkinson, who's bought one— unleaded in an rowan atkinson, who's bought one of these very epenewe— who's bought one of these very expensive cars— who's bought one of these very expensive cars ,_ who's bought one of these very expensive cars , now realises expensive cars, now realises anar— expensive cars, now realises rnar aerwauw— expensive cars, now realises that actually they're not even rearw— that actually they're not even really green— that actually they're not even really green at— that actually they're not even really green at all. and why is war?— really green at all. and why is rnare wew.— really green at all. and why is that? well, it's— really green at all. and why is that? well, it's because of all we— that? well, it's because of all the minerals— that? well, it's because of all the minerals that— that? well, it's because of all the minerals that go into the parrerree.— the minerals that go into the batteries, the _ the minerals that go into the batteries, the very same people rnar— batteries, the very same people rnar opp-eer— batteries, the very same people rnar opieer ro — batteries, the very same people that object to us— batteries, the very same people that object to us opening up a coar— that object to us opening up a coat nine— that object to us opening up a coat an— that object to us opening up a coal mine, an anthracite coal ne— coal mine, an anthracite coal p..— coal mine, an anthracite coal mine in cumbria._ coal mine, an anthracite coal mine in cumbria. but who were all mine in cumbria. but who were an for— mine in cumbria. but who were all for electric— mine in cumbria. but who were all for electric cars, don't

ro — all for electric cars, don't seem to understand that that means vast amounts of mining all ane— means vast amounts of mining all rne wowe. — means vast amounts of mining all over the world. i— means vast amounts of mining all over the world. i think rowan arwneon— over the world. i think rowan awrneon re— over the world. i think rowan atkinson is right— over the world. i think rowan atkinson is right to be eeeprrear— atkinson is right to be sceptical and let me promise you we wru— sceptical and let me promise you we win enu— sceptical and let me promise you we will still be— sceptical and let me promise you we will still be making cars, we wru— we will still be making cars, we win enu— we will still be making cars, we win war we— we will still be making cars, we will still be making internal combustion— will still be making internal combustion cars— will still be making internal combustion cars after this rwarerowe— combustion cars after this ludicrous date— combustion cars after this ludicrous date of 2030 set by none— ludicrous date of 2030 set by boris johnson— ludicrous date of 2030 set by boris johnson and a final what the boris johnson and a final what we rarage— boris johnson and a final what the farage moment. you know, row— the farage moment. you know, row pw— the farage moment. you know, we're told by the— the farage moment. you know, we're told by the academics and expene— we're told by the academics and expene p..— we're told by the academics and experts in london— we're told by the academics and experts in london that bob is on the experts in london that bob is on we wear.— experts in london that bob is on the beat. make— experts in london that bob is on the beat. make no— experts in london that bob is on the beat. make no difference . the beat. make no difference. ana— the beat. make no difference. ana wer— the beat. make no difference. and we p..— the beat. make no difference. and yet in the— the beat. make no difference. and yet in the little seaside rown— and yet in the little seaside own or— and yet in the little seaside town of maryport up in cumbria , town of maryport up in cumbria, a noppw— town of maryport up in cumbria, a noppw nae— town of maryport up in cumbria, a bobby has been— town of maryport up in cumbria, a bobby has been back on the wear. — a bobby has been back on the wear. ana— a bobby has been back on the beat. and guess— a bobby has been back on the beat. and guess what? antisocial penawowr— beat. and guess what? antisocial penawowr nae— beat. and guess what? antisocial behaviour has dropped by nearly 50. behaviour has dropped by nearly so. so— behaviour has dropped by nearly so. so n— behaviour has dropped by nearly so. so n aoee— behaviour has dropped by nearly 50. so it does work— behaviour has dropped by nearly 50. so it does work . and in 50. so it does work. and in a oner— 50. so it does work. and in a oner ru— 50. so it does work. and in a moment i'll be— 50. so it does work. and in a moment i'll be joined by a campaigner.— moment i'll be joined by a campaigner, ingrid newkirk, wno-e— campaigner, ingrid newkirk, wno-e ween— campaigner, ingrid newkirk, who's been campaigning for over 40 who's been campaigning for over we weare— who's been campaigning for over we weare for— who's been campaigning for over 40 years for the— who's been campaigning for over 40 years for the animal rights group— 40 years for the animal rights growp erra— 40 years for the animal rights growp new .— 40 years for the animal rights group peta . now, she 40 years for the animal rights group peta. now, she and i, she ana— group peta. now, she and i, she and r— group peta. now, she and i, she and r naw— group peta. now, she and i, she and r naw nor— group peta. now, she and i, she and i may not agree on ewerwrnrng.— and i may not agree on everything, but we're both eanpargnere.— everything, but we're both campaigners. we're going to find out campaigners. we're going to find owr p..— campaigners. we're going to find owr in a— campaigners. we're going to find out in a moment— campaigners. we're going to find out in a moment what her motivations— out in a moment what her motivations are- out in a moment what her motivations are , what she thinks motivations are, what she thinks her achievements— motivations are, what she thinks her achievements are, and what

the her achievements are, and what we rwrwre— her achievements are, and what the future for— her achievements are, and what the future for us— her achievements are, and what the future for us all is. if resa— the future for us all is. if peg. wee— the future for us all is. if pesa were to _ the future for us all is. if pesa were to get their way .

it's talking pines. it's talking pines . and i'm it's talking pines. and i'm joined— it's talking pines. and i'm joined pw— it's talking pines. and i'm joined by ingrid newkirk , joined by ingrid newkirk, rownaer— joined by ingrid newkirk, founder of— joined by ingrid newkirk, founder of peta. welcome to the program.— founder of peta. welcome to the program. rngna— founder of peta. welcome to the program, ingrid cheers. founder of peta. welcome to the program, ingrid cheers . cheers. program, ingrid cheers. cheers. now:— program, ingrid cheers. cheers. wow. rwe— program, ingrid cheers. cheers. now we been— program, ingrid cheers. cheers. now, i've been a— program, ingrid cheers. cheers. now, i've been a long time eanpargner— now, i've been a long time campaigner here. i sort of, you know.— campaigner here. i sort of, you know. gearing— campaigner here. i sort of, you know, getting for— campaigner here. i sort of, you know, getting for on 30 years. my know, getting for on 30 years. rrw powrrear— know, getting for on 30 years. my political campaign is about the my political campaign is about we rwropean— my political campaign is about the european union. you've been going— the european union. you've been going longer— the european union. you've been going ronger rnan— the european union. you've been going longer than me and pesa rnre— going longer than me and pesa this organisation— going longer than me and pesa this organisation that that we do this organisation that that we no nere— this organisation that that we no nere gwrre— this organisation that that we do here quite a— this organisation that that we do here quite a lot about . do here quite a lot about. roe— do here quite a lot about. you've been— do here quite a lot about. you've been going since 1980. vee— you've been going since 1980. wee wnar— you've been going since 1980. yes what motive— you've been going since 1980. yes what motive did you two wer— yes what motive did you two we ger— yes what motive did you two we ger going— yes what motive did you two first get going with this eanpargne — first get going with this campaign? �*vw�*rt;tt first get going with this campaign? �*rw�*rt;tt g t. campaign? well, i grew up i cared about animals. i grew up i was born in surrey. and i we had a dog in the house and i, you know, sort of the dog as a

friend or a brother or something like that. if anybody had hurt him, i would have been angry . him, i would have been angry. but over time i him, i would have been angry. but overtime i saw him, i would have been angry. but over time i saw different things. i found a pig who was suffering, abandoned on a farm and i was a law enforcement officer . so i took the and i was a law enforcement officer. so i took the pig to the vet . and on the way there, i the vet. and on the way there, i was thinking what i was having for supper and i realised that i had defrosted some pork chops and it occurred to me that i'd never been to a slaughterhouse. but they can't be very pleasant places . and i then investigated places. and i then investigated , found how ghastly they are , , found how ghastly they are, found out about factory farming and thought no body knows about this. and i care about animals and i'm discovering it. it would be really good to have a group and to show other people what's going they could make going on so they could make choices because we're oblivious to cruelties . we don't know to most cruelties. we don't know about dog fur and coming from china, are we are i china, i mean, we are we are i mean, as this country far more

than other countries in europe, in my experience, you know, we are a nation of animal lovers . are a nation of animal lovers. we are in incredibly kind to our pere— we are in incredibly kind to our pere. vow— we are in incredibly kind to our pere. wow won-r— we are in incredibly kind to our pets. you don't generally see errawe— pets. you don't generally see strays wandering _ pets. you don't generally see strays wandering all over the pace.— strays wandering all over the pace. ae— strays wandering all over the place ae wow— strays wandering all over the place, as you would do in many rwropean— place, as you would do in many european towns— place, as you would do in many european towns and cities . look, european towns and cities. look, i european towns and cities. look, r rnrnk— european towns and cities. look, r rnrnk rnre— european towns and cities. look, i think this this— european towns and cities. look, i think this this this debate, rnre— i think this this this debate, this conversation is about food , this conversation is about food . wnere— this conversation is about food . wnere n— this conversation is about food , where it comes— this conversation is about food , where it comes from . i mean, , where it comes from. i mean, we..— , where it comes from. i mean, wee. or— , where it comes from. i mean, wee. or oee— , where it comes from. i mean, wee. or .— , where it comes from. i mean, yes, of course , that's an yes, of course, that's an ernrear— yes, of course, that's an ethical choice- yes, of course, that's an ethical choice that individuals nake— ethical choice that individuals nake. ana— ethical choice that individuals make. and i've— ethical choice that individuals make. and i've always made. but i make. and i've always made. but riwer— make. and i've always made. but r we wonedn— make. and i've always made. but i just wonder, you— make. and i've always made. but i just wonder, you know , for you i just wonder, you know, for you . rnre— i just wonder, you know, for you . rnre re— i just wonder, you know, for you , this is basically— i just wonder, you know, for you , this is basically about us peeonrng— , this is basically about us becoming completely vegan, isn't it becoming completely vegan, isn't n e — becoming completely vegan, isn't n e n— becoming completely vegan, isn't n e rr wowe— becoming completely vegan, isn't it ? it would be— becoming completely vegan, isn't it ? it would be nice— becoming completely vegan, isn't it? t : “ t.rt; t it? it would be nice because, i mean , if you think about you mean, if you think about you care about animals, you go to vietnam, they eat monkeys and they eat dogs. and we are appalled as we should be. but if you go to an abattoir here or in any other country , you find any other country, you find chickens and pigs and cows . chickens and pigs and cows. they're absolutely petrified and

they're hung up, usually by one leg. and they have all the weights on their bodies dangling there in misery and they have their throats slit. often they're not stunned or they're not properly stunned. if they're stunned . and i don't think the stunned. and i don't think the average person an who would be like me, who grew up as a meat eaters meat eater or eating my way basically through the animal kingdom, would go and see that and then think, oh, that's all right. i don't care about it. what about fish? what about fish? well, funny . looking at fish? well, funny. looking at rngna-e— fish? well, funny. looking at ingrid's world,— fish? well, funny. looking at ingrid's world, in— �*" t?“7 �*vw�*rt;tt “3 looking at ingrid's world, in ingrid's wowe.— ingrid's world, in ingrid's wowe. wow— ingrid's world, in ingrid's world, you know, ingrid's world, nor going— world, you know, ingrid's world, we're not going to— world, you know, ingrid's world, we're not going to have steaks, the we're not going to have steaks, rne swnaaw— we're not going to have steaks, the sunday roasts— we're not going to have steaks, the sunday roasts out the window. — the sunday roasts out the window. eo— the sunday roasts out the window. so can- the sunday roasts out the window. so can we eat fish in rngna-e. — window. so can we eat fish in rngna-e. wew.— window. so can we eat fish in ingrid's. well, we— window. so can we eat fish in ingrid's. well, we can eat. �*vw�*rt; ingrid's. well, we can eat. we ear— ingrid's. well, we can eat. we ear paner— ingrid's. well, we can eat. we can eat other things- ingrid's. well, we can eat. we can eat other things that taste like the sunday roast. you know, i really i love steak tartare. i love all these sorts of things, these meaty things, liver these very meaty things, liver and and i've changed. so and onions. and i've changed. so do i. i have changed because i have found that i can eat foods that are very tasty, that i do

like. i don't have to sacrifice anything, but i don't want to be cruel to animals because i was raised to think that cruelty to animals was wrong and most of us are, and that you should be kind. and so the whole group is saying, look, it's not so narrow as you think. it doesn't mean just don't kick the dog or starve the horse. it goes beyond that into these places where most people never visit. and never see. now i get i understand— never see. now i get i understand why- now i get i understand why slaughterhouse nonr— understand why slaughterhouse rornr ana— understand why slaughterhouse raw and r— understand why slaughterhouse point and i think— understand why slaughterhouse point and i think most people won-r— point and i think most people won-r wanr— point and i think most people won-r wanr ro— point and i think most people don't want to know about it. and i don't want to know about it. and r rnrnk— don't want to know about it. and r rnrnk rnar-e— don't want to know about it. and i think that's probably true. nw— i think that's probably true. nwr wnere— i think that's probably true. nwr wnere r— i think that's probably true. but where i start to sort of rearw— but where i start to sort of really ana— but where i start to sort of really and r— but where i start to sort of really and i agree it's your enowe— really and i agree it's your enoree ana— really and i agree it's your choice and as— really and i agree it's your choice and as it- really and i agree it's your choice and as it should be, mine— choice and as it should be, ana— choice and as it should be, mine, and that's- choice and as it should be, mine, and that's in a free werew— mine, and that's in a free eoererw. now— mine, and that's in a free society, how we - mine, and that's in a free society, how we should live. gap.— society, how we should live. nwr. wow— society, how we should live. nwr. wow know.— society, how we should live. but, you know, you basically wowran-r— but, you know, you basically wouldn't have— but, you know, you basically wouldn't have us— but, you know, you basically wouldn't have us keeping pet roge— wouldn't have us keeping pet aoge-eare— wouldn't have us keeping pet dogs-cats either,- wouldn't have us keeping pet dogs cats either, would you? dogs and cats either, would you? i dogs and cats either, would you? r-nawe— dogs and cats either, would you? r-nawe ae— dogs and cats either, would you? i-have as breeding- dogs and cats either, would you? i-you have as breeding- dogs and cats either, would you? i-you know as breeding- dogs and cats either, would you? i-you know ,s breeding- dogs and cats either, would you? i-you know , we'veiing- dogs and cats either, would you? i-you know , we've got- dogs and cats either, would you? i-you know , we've got this. them, you know, we've got this situation now at crufts where the one of the winning dogs is one of what we call breeding impaired breeds. they're pugs, they're french bulldogs , they're they're french bulldogs, they're all these little dogs who've

been bred to have basically no nose. and you don't even think about that until someone points it out. i mean, that is an errene— it out. i mean, that is an extreme example.- e i mean, that is an extreme example. but you know, were— extreme example. but you know, were are— extreme example. but you know, there are everywhere. \r gt. there are everywhere. nigel were.— there are everywhere. nigel there, absolutely. but there are everywhere. \r gt. “rt;”rt; buti there are everywhere. \r gt. “rt;”rt; 011g but i mean, there, absolutely. but i mean, there there, absolutely. but i mean, were are— there, absolutely. but i mean, there are millions— there, absolutely. but i mean, there are millions of- there, absolutely. but i mean, there are millions of us- “rt;”rt; 011g but i mean, there are millions of us that keep— there are millions of us that keep per— there are millions of us that keep per aoge— there are millions of us that keep pet dogs and pet cats and we rrne— keep pet dogs and pet cats and we nna rne— keep pet dogs and pet cats and we find the animal rights extremists— we find the animal rights extremists .— we find the animal rights extremists . that's with extremists. that's fine with you,— extremists. that's fine with your wnn— extremists. that's fine with you, with animal rising, they'd erop— you, with animal rising, they'd erop een— you, with animal rising, they'd stop even that. _ you, with animal rising, they'd stop even that. �*vw�*rt.. stop even that. well, i the way i with them is that i would agree with them is that we have shelters and refuges like battersea dogs, home dogs home. they're full of animals. rnew-re— home. they're full of animals. they're overflowing— home. they're full of animals. they're overflowing .- they're full of animals. they're overflowing . they can't they're overflowing. they can't rrne— they're overflowing. they can't nna enowgn— they're overflowing. they can't find enough homes. they're overflowing. they can't find enough homes . and so if find enough homes. and so if we're breeding— find enough homes. and so if we're breeding or— find enough homes. and so if we're breeding or we're buying non— we're breeding or we're buying from koean— we're breeding or we're buying from korean puppy mills, sending roge— from korean puppy mills, sending aoge inro— from korean puppy mills, sending aoge no we— from korean puppy mills, sending dogs into this country as if we need— dogs into this country as if we need rnen— dogs into this country as if we need rnen .— dogs into this country as if we need them , there— dogs into this country as if we need them , there are bad need them, there are bad praeneee. — need them, there are bad praeneee. r— need them, there are bad practises. i get- need them, there are bad practises. gt. "r“rtt; need them, there are bad practises. gt. ”r.“rt;t; ”r?t; need them, there are bad practises. gt. .“rt;”rt; ?"rt; practises. i get there are bad practises. i get there are bad practises. i get there are bad practises. i understand that. and i don't want to see them ehhen and i don't want to see them either. are you you famously have stripped off all over the world with your photos, tests, and you tell people that this middle class girl from surrey, you know, but you've also you've also given support to groups like the animal liberation front

who are violent , who are who are violent, who are threatening, who have used tactics akin to terrorism. and i really my big question for you is this. we know protests can be effective. you know, the suffragettes had a protest. now albeit the first world war and munitions factories really got them to vote more quickly. but they were campaigning to have a voice acas in the democratic process. what worries me about you guys know i'm particularly the animal liberation front is you're saying we don't want to engagein you're saying we don't want to engage in a democratic process . engage in a democratic process. we will. we will. we will protest. we will cause you inconvenience, which many groups augn inconvenience, which many groups align to you do. and we want to impose our will on you. and i just ingrid, put this to you. you're very well intentioned. and i believe. i believe that 100. of course you are . but i 100. of course you are. but i worry that what you're doing is fundamentally anti democratic. absolutely not. i think what wowre— absolutely not. i think what woe going.— absolutely not. i think what you're doing, the mistake is war— you're doing, the mistake is rnar wowre— you're doing, the mistake is that you're lumping everybody rogerner— that you're lumping everybody rogerner ana— that you're lumping everybody together and there are as many raerree— together and there are as many raerree ae— together and there are as many tactics as there _ together and there are as many tactics as there are— together and there are as many tactics as there are groups or

rnarwraware — tactics as there are groups or individuals. we're all very arrrerenr.— individuals. we're all very different. but— individuals. we're all very different. but you talked about i different. but you talked about r rnrnk— different. but you talked about r rnrnk rr-e— different. but you talked about i think it's emma— different. but you talked about i think it's emma davidson who ran i think it's emma davidson who onro— i think it's emma davidson who onro rpeon— i think it's emma davidson who ran onto epsom 100 years ago, ana— ran onto epsom 100 years ago, and rnew-re— ran onto epsom 100 years ago, and they're giving— ran onto epsom 100 years ago, and they're giving her a blue pragwe— and they're giving her a blue pragwe no— and they're giving her a blue plaque now because as well, rnew-re— plaque now because as well, they're honouring her in this waw— they're honouring her in this waw. sne— they're honouring her in this waw. sne wae— they're honouring her in this way. she was fighting as a ewrrragerre— way. she was fighting as a suffragette who wanted women's ngnre. — suffragette who wanted women's ngnre. sne — suffragette who wanted women's ngnre. sne wae— suffragette who wanted women's rights. she was derived did werew— rights. she was derived did society, didn't— rights. she was derived did society, didn't want it, but she wanrea— society, didn't want it, but she wanrea go— society, didn't want it, but she wanted go into— society, didn't want it, but she wanted go into she wanted a wore. — wanted go into she wanted a wore. sne— wanted go into she wanted a vote. she and— wanted go into she wanted a vote. she and she- wanted go into she wanted a vote. ?“r: r: “g vote. she and she said voting matters. and you guys, i feel or many of your groups say to hell, we're voting. we just want to impose our will on you. it's very different to the suffragettes now. you you have anorner— suffragettes now. you you have anorner growp— suffragettes now. you you have another group that— g wrtrw�* you you have another group that wants to rnpoee— another group that wants to rnpoee rnerr— another group that wants to impose their will on us, which is impose their will on us, which re ro— impose their will on us, which e o eaw— impose their will on us, which re ro eaw. enwr— impose their will on us, which is to say, shut up,— impose their will on us, which is to say, shut up, go away. �*vw�*rt is to say, shut up, go away. we won-r— is to say, shut up, go away. we won-r want— is to say, shut up, go away. we won-r wanr ro— is to say, shut up, go away. we don't want to hear— is to say, shut up, go away. we don't want to hear it. - is to say, shut up, go away. we don't want to hear it. we love our dirty old habits and we don't want to change. but we're in negotiations with so many corporations. we are talking to people and saying , it's corporations. we are talking to people and saying, it's your choice, but we wish to show you cruelty that will appal you. now that's a democratic way of going about things. we do demonstrate

because there's free speech. you know, we should be out there saying, i don't mind you demonstrating. idon't saying, i don't mind you demonstrating. i don't mind war.— demonstrating. i don't mind rnar. r— demonstrating. i don't mind rnar. riwer— demonstrating. i don't mind that. i just don't— demonstrating. i don't mind that. i just don't want- : “g i don't mind that. i just don't want people wawrng— that. i just don't want people walking aown— that. i just don't want people walking down the roads and tying rneneewee— walking down the roads and tying themselves to— walking down the roads and tying themselves to different organisations. i know it is. i know— organisations. i know it is. i know rr— organisations. i know it is. i know n re.— organisations. i know it is. i know n re. r— organisations. i know it is. i know it is. i know it is. and it may— know it is. i know it is. and it naw pe— know it is. i know it is. and it naw pe wnrarr— know it is. i know it is. and it may be unfair to— know it is. i know it is. and it may be unfair to lump you know it is. i know it is. and it may be unfairto lump you in may be unfair to lump you in wnn— may be unfair to lump you in win au— may be unfair to lump you in win an or— may be unfair to lump you in with all of them,— may be unfair to lump you in with all of them, but they rearw— with all of them, but they reauw ao — with all of them, but they really do annoy me. ingrid look, i really do annoy me. ingrid look, r e— really do annoy me. ingrid look, r rne— really do annoy me. ingrid look, i see the sincerity— really do annoy me. ingrid look, i see the sincerity of who you are-wnw— i see the sincerity of who you are-wnar wow— i see the sincerity of who you are-what you are,- i see the sincerity of who you are what you are, and i have are and what you are, and i have to are and what you are, and i have ro eaw— are and what you are, and i have ro eaw. r— are and what you are, and i have ro eaw. r rowna— are and what you are, and i have to say, i found this.— are and what you are, and i have to say, i found this. this conversation _ to say, i found this. this conversation with peter a lot more pleasant— conversation with peter a lot more pleasant and a lot more grown— more pleasant and a lot more grown wp— more pleasant and a lot more grown wp rnan— more pleasant and a lot more grown up than i've had with one— grown up than i've had with other organisations in recent knee.— other organisations in recent rrnee. r— other organisations in recent rrnee. r wanr— other organisations in recent times. i want to— other organisations in recent times. i want to say thank you for coming— times. i want to say thank you for coming on— times. i want to say thank you for coming on program. for coming on the program. rnank— for coming on the program. rnank wow— for coming on the program. rnank wow wew— for coming on the program. thank you very much.- for coming on the program. thank you very much. and here's the kindness. thank you. of course, now jacob rees—mogg is going be up jacob what going to be up next. jacob what have you got for this have you got for us this evening? i'm going to be evening? well, i'm going to be raking— evening? well, i'm going to be raking-rwe— “g7’ well, i'm going to be talking this extraordinary talking about this extraordinary repon— talking about this extraordinary repon-parkw— talking about this extraordinary report daily telegraph report in the daily telegraph rnar— report in the daily telegraph that-actually- that lockdown actually was ineffective. _ that lockdown actually was- ineffective._through ineffective. so we went through all ineffective. so we went through ark-pan.— ineffective. so we went through ark-pan. au— ineffective. so we went through all-pain, all the- ineffective. so we went through all pain, all the mental all that pain, all the mental angwren.— all that pain, all the mental. anguish._schools anguish. we closed the schools ana— anguish. we closed the schools and eawee— anguish. we closed the schools and saved remarkably few lives . and saved remarkably few lives. ana— and saved remarkably few lives. and ro— and saved remarkably few lives. and to discuss— and saved remarkably few lives. and to discuss that and what the know— and to discuss that and what the rngwrrw re— and to discuss that and what the rngwrrw re going.— and to discuss that and what the inquiry is doing, because i'm

worried— inquiry is doing, because i'm worried that— inquiry is doing, because i'm worried that the— inquiry is doing, because i'm worried that the inquiry from the worried that the inquiry from we reo— worried that the inquiry from the 150 questions it asked boris ronneon— the 150 questions it asked boris ronneon re— the 150 questions it asked boris johnson is focusing on whether the lockdown _ johnson is focusing on whether the lockdown should have been rowgner— the lockdown should have been rowgner rnan— the lockdown should have been tougher than the _ the lockdown should have been tougher than the evidence now ro— tougher than the evidence now ro pe— tougher than the evidence now seems to be the— tougher than the evidence now seems to be the reverse. well, i rnrnk— seems to be the reverse. well, i rnrnk wow— seems to be the reverse. well, i rnrnk wow au— seems to be the reverse. well, i think you all owe— seems to be the reverse. well, i think you all owe us an apology, jacob-— think you all owe us an apology, jacob- — think you all owe us an apology, raeop. vow— think you all owe us an apology, jacob. you too,— think you all owe us an apology, jacob. /rtr.. t jacob. you too, because you were part of that government. i was part of that government. i was part that part of that government. i was part-that government.- g i was part that government. and part of that government. and i wae-pw— part of that government. and i was-by collective- was bound by collective responsibility. that's absolutely- responsibility. that's absolutely and you absolutely true. yeah. and you know— absolutely true. yeah. and you know now— absolutely true. yeah. and you know how the _ absolutely true. yeah. and you know how the system works. yeah apeokwrekw. —ro| absolutely. we look forward to that. in a moment, the that. now in a moment, the weather, of the prime weather, of course, the prime minister being an expert minister not being an expert on the weather. rishi, promise the weather. rishi, i promise you will tell us you the weather will tell us it'll windy in channel it'll be windy in the channel again tomorrow. hello again. it's aidan mcgivern from it's aidan mcgivern here from the news the met office with the gb news forecast. cloud the met office with the gb news forecast . cloud becomes forecast. cloud becomes wraeepreaa— forecast. cloud becomes widespread once- t cloud becomes widespread once again. owernrgnr.— widespread once again. overnight, clearer skies will p..— overnight, clearer skies will remain in the— overnight, clearer skies will remain in the west and then that wru— remain in the west and then that win rean— remain in the west and then that win keaa ro— remain in the west and then that will lead to sunny— remain in the west and then that will lead to sunny spells again in becoming— will lead to sunny spells again in becoming widespread during the in becoming widespread during rne eaw— in becoming widespread during rne aaw on— in becoming widespread during the day on tuesday. but high pressure remains— the day on tuesday. but high pressure remains in control of wearner— pressure remains in control of wearner .— pressure remains in control of our weather . that's why it's our weather. that's why it's eerrkea— our weather. that's why it's enter in. — our weather. that's why it's settled in. it's— our weather. that's why it's settled in. it's mostly dry, but were— settled in. it's mostly dry, but were re— settled in. it's mostly dry, but were re a— settled in. it's mostly dry, but there is a thickening of the low crowe— there is a thickening of the low ekowa rnrowgn— there is a thickening of the low cloud through the— there is a thickening of the low cloud through the evening and owernrgnr.— cloud through the evening and overnight, we'll— cloud through the evening and overnight, we'll see that cloud creep— overnight, we'll see that cloud creep westwards.— overnight, we'll see that cloud creep westwards. so it'll be

rnrek— creep westwards. so it'll be thick enough— creep westwards. so it'll be thick enough in— creep westwards. so it'll be thick enough in 1 or 2 spots to grwe— thick enough in 1 or 2 spots to grwe eoe— thick enough in 1 or 2 spots to give some drizzle,— thick enough in 1 or 2 spots to give some drizzle, most likely raer— give some drizzle, most likely east midlands— give some drizzle, most likely east midlands parts of the east coaer.— east midlands parts of the east coaer. owr— east midlands parts of the east coast, but otherwise it's a dry ana— coast, but otherwise it's a dry and enter— coast, but otherwise it's a dry and settled night— coast, but otherwise it's a dry and settled night for many , and settled night for many, aberr— and settled night for many, albeit increasingly cloudy, ekeareer— albeit increasingly cloudy, clearest spells— albeit increasingly cloudy, clearest spells towards western rernape— clearest spells towards western areas. perhaps the odd mist paren— areas. perhaps the odd mist paren for— areas. perhaps the odd mist patch for northern ireland as we wake— patch for northern ireland as we wake wp— patch for northern ireland as we wake wp on— patch for northern ireland as we wake up on tuesday. but that new— wake up on tuesday. but that new wru— wake up on tuesday. but that they will quickly— wake up on tuesday. but that they will quickly disappear and men— they will quickly disappear and rnen rne— they will quickly disappear and then the sunny— they will quickly disappear and then the sunny skies in the west wru— then the sunny skies in the west wrkk nowe— then the sunny skies in the west will nibble away— then the sunny skies in the west will nibble away at— then the sunny skies in the west will nibble away at the fringes of will nibble away at the fringes or we— will nibble away at the fringes or we crowe— will nibble away at the fringes of the cloud and— will nibble away at the fringes of the cloud and so that cloud wir— of the cloud and so that cloud will progressively— of the cloud and so that cloud will progressively be back rowarae— will progressively be back towards the _ will progressively be back towards the north sea coast. i rnrnk— towards the north sea coast. i rnrnk rr— towards the north sea coast. i rnrnk r wu— towards the north sea coast. i think it will remain across pane— think it will remain across pane of— think it will remain across parts of central- think it will remain across parts of central and eastern scoring— parts of central and eastern scotland, yorkshire, lincolnshire, norfolk here, temperatures— lincolnshire, norfolk here, temperatures 12, 13 celsius at peer. — temperatures 12, 13 celsius at peer. nw— temperatures 12, 13 celsius at best. but where _ temperatures 12, 13 celsius at best. but where we've got the warm, sunny spells further west wakee— warm, sunny spells further west wakee ana— warm, sunny spells further west wakee and we— warm, sunny spells further west wales and the south—west 22 cekerwe— wales and the south—west 22 celsius likely— wales and the south—west 22 celsius likely tuesday evening. rnen— celsius likely tuesday evening. rnen rne— celsius likely tuesday evening. then the cloud— celsius likely tuesday evening. then the cloud returns and it pwenee— then the cloud returns and it pushes westwards through the ewenrng— pushes westwards through the ewenrng ana— pushes westwards through the evening and overnight again, ekeareer— evening and overnight again, clearest skies— evening and overnight again, clearest skies remaining towards wonnern— clearest skies remaining towards northern ireland,— clearest skies remaining towards northern ireland, western scoring— northern ireland, western scotland, northwest england , scotland, northwest england, weer— scotland, northwest england, weerwakee.— scotland, northwest england, west wales, cornwall, for ewanpke— west wales, cornwall, for exanpke .— west wales, cornwall, for example , and- west wales, cornwall, for example , and temperatures example, and temperatures dipping— example, and temperatures arpprng inro—

example, and temperatures dipping into the single figures in pkaeee— dipping into the single figures in pkaeee .— dipping into the single figures in pkaeee . a— dipping into the single figures in places . a cool— dipping into the single figures in places . a cool start. then on in places. a cool start. then on weaneeaaw— in places. a cool start. then on wednesday and— in places. a cool start. then on wednesday and once more, a kargekw— wednesday and once more, a kargekw ekowaw— wednesday and once more, a largely cloudy start for many rnar— largely cloudy start for many rnar row— largely cloudy start for many that low cloud— largely cloudy start for many that low cloud will take its rrne— that low cloud will take its time through— that low cloud will take its time through the morning, but it will eventually— time through the morning, but it will eventually push back rowarae— will eventually push back towards the _ will eventually push back towards the east and although it wnrarr— towards the east and although it seems unfair to— towards the east and although it seems unfair to have the same repearrng— seems unfair to have the same repeating weather— seems unfair to have the same repeating weather pattern if wowre— repeating weather pattern if wowre p..— repeating weather pattern if woe in we— repeating weather pattern if you're in the east, i'm afraid gor— you're in the east, i'm afraid gor a— you're in the east, i'm afraid we've got a few— you're in the east, i'm afraid we've got a few more days of it . a— we've got a few more days of it . a or— we've got a few more days of it . a or or— we've got a few more days of it . a or of row— we've got a few more days of it . a lot of low cloud— we've got a few more days of it . a lot of low cloud remaining nere— . a lot of low cloud remaining nere ana— . a lot of low cloud remaining here and suppressed temperatures, humidity rises on rnwreaaw— temperatures, humidity rises on rnwreaaw ana— temperatures, humidity rises on thursday and friday, higher temperatures,— thursday and friday, higher temperatures, but a risk of eonwee— temperatures, but a risk of showers as well- temperatures, but a risk of showers as well .

good evening. you with gb news the top - good evening. you with gb news rne rop erorw— - good evening. you with gb news rne rop erorw rnre— - good evening. you with gb news the top story this hour.— good evening. you with gb news the top story this hour. the wnne— the top story this hour. the wnne-eawe- the top story this hour. the prime-says his- the top story this hour. the prime says his plan the top story this hour. the- prime-says his plan to prime minister says his plan to rake— prime minister says his plan to raekke ane— prime minister says his plan to tackle the arrival— prime minister says his plan to tackle the arrival illegal tackle the arrival of illegal nrgranre— tackle the arrival of illegal nrgranre ro— tackle the arrival of illegal migrants to the— tackle the arrival of illegal migrants to the uk in small roare— migrants to the uk in small poare ana— migrants to the uk in small boats and the— migrants to the uk in small boats and the asylum backlog is eranrng— boats and the asylum backlog is eranrnglwork— boats and the asylum backlog is eranrnglwork .— boats and the asylum backlog is starting-work . but— boats and the asylum backlog is starting work. but he admits starting to work. but he admits rnere-e— starting to work. but he admits

rnere-e enu— starting to work. but he admits there's still a— starting to work. but he admits there's still a long way to go. owing— there's still a long way to go. nwnng a— there's still a long way to go. during a speech— there's still a long way to go. during a speech in kent today, the during a speech in kent today, we wnne— during a speech in kent today, the prime minister said small boar— the prime minister said small boat crossings— the prime minister said small boat crossings were down 20. went— boat crossings were down 20. new swnak— boat crossings were down 20. rishi sunak also— boat crossings were down 20. rishi sunak also announced a rwnner— rishi sunak also announced a rwnner rwo— rishi sunak also announced a further two barges to accommodate a further 1000 peopke— accommodate a further 1000 peopke. owr— accommodate a further 1000 people, but wouldn't say where new— people, but wouldn't say where new wowka — people, but wouldn't say where new wowka pe— people, but wouldn't say where they would be located . the they would be located. the rapowr— they would be located. the labour leader,— they would be located. the labour leader, sir keir starmer, wekeonea— labour leader, sir keir starmer, welcomed the— labour leader, sir keir starmer, welcomed the news but said the nowernnenr— welcomed the news but said the government still— welcomed the news but said the government still needs to secure more return agreements with one— more return agreements with other countries. _ more return agreements with other countries. the prime wrnrerer— other countries. the prime minister says— other countries. the prime minister says the government is werng— minister says the government is werng ewerw— minister says the government is werng ewerw rook— minister says the government is using every tool at— minister says the government is using every tool at its disposal to using every tool at its disposal ro raekke— using every tool at its disposal to tackle the _ using every tool at its disposal to tackle the problem . �*vw�*rt to tackle the problem. we've now returned— to tackle the problem. we've now returned .— to tackle the problem. we've now returned . 1800 to albania in returned. 1800 to albania in just six months. we've gone from accepting around 1 in 5 albanian asylum cases to now just 1 in 50. in line with our european partners . and what is the result partners. and what is the result of all of this? so far this year , the number of albanians, small boat arrivals has fallen . by boat arrivals has fallen. by almost 90. thousands of british